It's day 162 with POTUS45, marking another helluva week in US news
June 30, 2017 8:00 AM   Subscribe

 
Hurrah! Thanks, flt!
posted by kingless at 8:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


My bet is that Trump's "big surprise" is like so much of what he says... something to say just to be saying something. My kids did that, but they grew out of it.
posted by Miss Cellania at 8:03 AM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


A stat on the WTF site states that 11% of respondents are "excited" about how things are going in Washington.

What's that adage about how some people just want to watch the world burn?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:04 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


"big surprise - the goat gland surgery has been a success and i am a MAN!!! - doctors say side fx won't be ongoing"

(fake)
posted by pyramid termite at 8:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Argh. I love you filthy light thief, but I can't believe even on MeFi we are not treating this story as a big enough deal to make it into a front page post...

Shane Harris for WSJ: GOP Operative Sought Clinton Emails From Hackers, Implied a Connection to Flynn.

The article says there is evidence of "Russian hackers discussing how to obtain emails from Mrs. Clinton’s server and then transmit them to Mr. Flynn."

It also says that a longtime Republican opposition researcher tried to find someone with access to e-mails stolen by Russian intelligence through online hacker forums. In doing so, he would say "I’m talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?"

This is evidence of collusion.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [157 favorites]


What Is Kate's law? The Bill Is Named After Kate Steinle, Who Was Shot By An Undocumented Immigrant

Kate's Law Would Intensify Penalties For Undocumented Immigrants Who Were Previously Convicted Of Crimes

posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:06 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]




Jonah Goldberg is as dishonest and one would expect the editor of National Review to be -- he's the clown who wrote a book suggesting that fascism is a liberal phenomenon -- but he recognizes that Trump is dangerous to the conservative brand. He was NPR this morning to discuss Trump's tweets.

He expressed amazement that no Republicans are defending the Senate health care bill (why aren't people talking about what's good about it? Because the only selling point is tax cuts for the rich, you dope!) and opined that McConnell isn't actually that enthusiastic about passing it, likening the effort to just "checking a box."
posted by Gelatin at 8:10 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Thanks so much, FLT. My humble addition is National Treasure Charlie Pierce's highly entertaining (aka, foaming at the mouth) and complete summary of the fraudulent voter fraud commission.
posted by martin q blank at 8:11 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


We've gotten so used to the collusion that evidence of it just sort of bobs around doing nothing.
posted by Artw at 8:15 AM on June 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


Let's also discuss Trump's using the National Enquirer to try and blackmail Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough, amid reports of NE reporters harassing Brzezinski and her kids.
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:15 AM on June 30, 2017 [37 favorites]


He really is the Gamergate president.
posted by Artw at 8:16 AM on June 30, 2017 [121 favorites]


So is the thought process on bypassing the conference committee that House members are going to be ignorant of what's in the Senate bill? Because it seems like ramming the Senate bill down the House's throat isn't a solution to the problems of keeping the Tea Party and moderate votes all on board unless they're ignorant of what's in it. Those problems have existed every step of the way and this doesn't change the dynamic. Plus probably throw in some House bitterness over Trump throwing the AHCA under the bus and treating the situation like the House messed up and now the Senate grown-ups need to clean up their mess (with a worse bill?), and even more time has passed for the public to get to know and loathe these GOP healthcare disasters.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:18 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hey, all. I don't usually comment in these posts, but I wanted to pop in and say that I really appreciate both the posts and the comments. My media diet is getting leaner and leaner because I simply can't handle it - but the political posts here on Mefi are enough to keep me informed while offering commiseration and thoughtful commentary. So, thanks. Cheers!
posted by Elly Vortex at 8:19 AM on June 30, 2017 [104 favorites]


Thanks for the new thread, documenting our latest slide towards the apocalypse.
posted by zarq at 8:21 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Checking the box score from the last thread, we see that Congress can impeach whenever they want, for whatever they want.

It's sweet that talking heads are mad about "the facelift tweet" but let's get on with the tone of national dialogue:

He CAN be impeached
He SHOULD be impeached
He MUST be impeached

(Also stop the cruel healthcare bill, the cruel immigration actions, the fraudulent voter fraud fraud, respect the rule of law, respect the environment, unf#<% the State Department, and WH Press corps give back that steaming pile of relations; do good work!)
posted by petebest at 8:23 AM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


Master Troll Pete Souza at it again: Respect for women

Once upon a time, women held serious positions, and could safely express real reactions during substantive conversation with the president. And no one commented on what they wore.

But this is 2017, and respect for women is no more.
posted by Dashy at 8:24 AM on June 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


Thanks everyone for the good information and commentary.
posted by vibrotronica at 8:25 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


My media diet is getting leaner and leaner because I simply can't handle it
Yeah, I'm not quite as active because a)I'm trying to disengage just a smidge for sanity reasons, b) WTFJHT.com is actually a really good snapshot/encapsulation of stuff, and c)I'm really trying to read more longform stuff - I've got a recc list that's getting out of hand, so it seemed to be a good time to step back.
posted by eclectist at 8:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]




Fox & Friends defends Trump's sexist Twitter tirade against MSNBC host
PETE HEGSETH (CO-HOST): If you spend 10 seconds watching [MSNBC's Morning Joe], you're going to see factless insults. It's unhinged. Blinded by Trump-hatred. They're happy to use him for ratings before the election. And then once he changes or they don't like what he does, they turn on him like a petulant child and insult, insult, insult. And then they wonder why the world's best counter-puncher says, "You know what, it's about time I punch back."

[...]

DOOCY: Absolutely. Look, when you're president of the United States you don't give up your First Amendment right.
I'm sure when the founders were kicking around ideas for the Bill of Rights and came up with this whole free speech thing, the idea of the President attacking a member of the media was first and foremost in their minds.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [58 favorites]


Thanks so much, FLT. My humble addition is National Treasure Charlie Pierce's highly entertaining (aka, foaming at the mouth) and complete summary of the fraudulent voter fraud commission.

And right on schedule, fellow voter suppression weasel and racist shithead Hans van Spakovsky was just officially appointed to Kobach's racist voter suppression shithead council.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:28 AM on June 30, 2017 [29 favorites]


Let's also discuss toddler's using the National Enquirer to try and blackmail Mika Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough, amid reports of NE reporters harassing Brzezinski and her kids.

The whole thing is nicely timed with this week's deep dive in the New Yorker by Jeffrey Toobin, on National Enquirer's sycophantic approach to the toddler in chief.
posted by Dashy at 8:28 AM on June 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


Why would they skip the conference committee? Just to speed up the process so they can get to tax reform before it's too late?

We know why they did it with ACA -- the Democrats lost their super-majority in the Senate and wouldn't be able to pass the bill ("conference report") that came out of conference committee.
posted by notyou at 8:29 AM on June 30, 2017


Ironically, the five days I spent in Washington DC last week were the most politics-free and news-free days I've had in almost a year. It was a nice break.
posted by rocket88 at 8:29 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Chris Hayes had a republican congressman on who sounded completely ignorant of even what the conference committee is: Twitvid
posted by zakur at 8:29 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


My media diet is getting leaner and leaner because I simply can't handle it

Yeah, I'm not quite as active because a)I'm trying to disengage just a smidge for sanity reasons, b) WTFJHT.com is actually a really good snapshot/encapsulation of stuff, and c)I'm really trying to read more longform stuff - I've got a recc list that's getting out of hand, so it seemed to be a good time to step back.


I'm partial to Vox Sentences myself.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:30 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm trying to imagine what my reaction would have been if, say 15 years ago, someone told me that something called 'tweeting' would play such a big role in politics.
posted by jonmc at 8:31 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


And then once he changes or they don't like what he does, they turn on him like a petulant child and insult, insult, insult. And then they wonder why the world's best counter-puncher says, "You know what, it's about time I punch back."

That leopard will never eat *my* face! I'm not like those other pundits!
posted by harriet vane at 8:32 AM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


My lack of angst over this Kate's Law stuff is making me feel like a bad leftie. It seems mostly pointless and I cannot think of a single law named after a crime victim that wasn't useless at best and more likely harmful. But... eh. Looking at the bill text the only thing that jumps out at me as bothersome is that fact that it includes drug misdemeanors, which I for the most part wish didn't exist at all. But as a group, folks that have multiple violence offense convictions aren't who I'm really worrying about.
posted by phearlez at 8:32 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


DOOCY: Absolutely. Look, when you're president of the United States you don't give up your First Amendment right.

In fact, since Trump is the president, if he stopped himself from tweeting, that would be the government infringing on his free speech, a true first amendment violation. Maybe he (in his capacity as a private citizen) should file a claim against himself (in his capacity as president). Though, I'm not sure if he's exhausted all of his administrative remedies in the matter.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:34 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


OnceUponATime: Argh. I love you filthy light thief, but I can't believe even on MeFi we are not treating this story as a big enough deal to make it into a front page post...

Thanks for bringing it back up in the beginning of this thread. There's just so much going on, still/always, so I included the WTFJHT link in the main post, to bring it (back) to people's attention as a place to get quick overview of holygodsbelow everything that is going on, day by day.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:35 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


As XKCD quoted, "I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express."
posted by phearlez at 8:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [176 favorites]


From last thread, the framing of This is Normal (Alex Pareene/Salon) is that activities of the Trump Administration are normal for Republican administrations in general, not isolated wacky behavior that would totally go away with a different Republican president.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


Excuse me politics thread, can I have a minor freakout in here? I put up a public facebook post about my family's medical experiences and Tammy Baldwin's staff got in touch with me and TAMMY BALDWIN IS COMING TO MY HOUSE to film some sort of ad aaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaaaAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm feeling super calm about this
posted by gerstle at 8:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [287 favorites]


This is evidence of collusion.

I don't think Donald tried to purposely distract from this with the Mika and Joe thing. I think that many times he looks like he is but it's not in the way where someone sits down and thinks up a distraction in a mindful manner. Donald seems to be the type of person where something bad in one area happens, something that he has little control over and he looks somewhere else to vent his rage and aggression. Donald already has a grudge against them and all it took was him watching it, them saying something bad and boom he has his vent.

The thing that's wild about it is that there are indications that he, the wh and some allies knew what was coming as they've all been floating that 'so what is so bad about collusion huh? I mean Hilary Obama did it too line?'. The story comes out and bamn, nadda, everyone including the people who are supposed to be spinning it in Trumps favour are stuck spinning the Mika and Joe thing. So I'm not sure that it's totally bad that people aren't collusion, collusion, collusion omg that they would be if it was the only big story. Trump may have distracted from it but he's also distracted people from his own talking points and they lose out on the opportunity to set a narrative in the publics mind.

And the neat thing is that the collusion thing is going to stick around in the background no matter what Trump does because it's a legal issue not dependent on 'spin'. Mika and Joe will fade away in a few days. The collusion story is going to pop up, over and over so any respite that Trump and his people might be feeling is only an illusion.

Longer term this Mika and Joe thing is a bonus. It's shit like this, his personality, his character that set the stage for people putting more credence into the actual legal evidence of crap he's done.
posted by Jalliah at 8:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [40 favorites]


PBS Newshour link to the conference with the president of Korea. Supposed to begin any minute.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:42 AM on June 30, 2017


Looking at the bill text the only thing that jumps out at me as bothersome is that fact that it includes drug misdemeanors, which I for the most part wish didn't exist at all. But as a group, folks that have multiple violence offense convictions aren't who I'm really worrying about.

Perhaps consult the ACLU. [PDF]
posted by mykescipark at 8:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


This is Normal (Alex Pareene/Salon)

It's not normal.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Collusion is established, nobody is going to question it happened anymore, but it just doesn't matter. Which is incredible.
posted by Artw at 8:45 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


nobody is going to question it happened anymore

This is not true.

You have only to dip the tiniest toe into right wing media and the comments sections thereof to see that it's not true.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:46 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


It also says that a longtime Republican opposition researcher tried to find someone with access to e-mails stolen by Russian intelligence through online hacker forums. In doing so, he would say "I’m talking to Michael Flynn about this—if you find anything, can you let me know?"

The guy tasked with finding the Russian hackers, Eric York, deleted his Facebook account overnight. He's feeling the heat.
posted by scalefree at 8:46 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Crime and killings in Chicago have reached such epidemic proportions that I am sending in Federal help. 1714 shootings in Chicago this year! 3:48 AM - 30 Jun 2017

Chicago Tribune: As Chicago announces fed help to fight gun crimes, Trump tweets violence has reached 'epidemic proportions'
Twenty federal gun agents have been assigned to Chicago to join a newly formed task force aimed at cutting the flow of illegal guns into the city and cracking down on people repeatedly arrested on gun charges.

Hours after the Chicago police department sent out a press release about the task force, President Trump claimed credit for sending in the agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Politico: Trump says he's sending feds to Chicago to help with crime problem
While it was unclear exactly what Trump was referring to, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that about 20 more U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents have been sent to Chicago to combat gun violence.
posted by christopherious at 8:46 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sorry, I guess I'm feeling kinda stroppy today. I'm gonna go take a walk.
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:47 AM on June 30, 2017


So wrt Pence-Kobach led plan to get voter registration information, cross posting what I said on the Facebooks.

"Let me get this straight...Let me make sure I'm putting the pieces together.

Federal Commission led by Pence and an Arkansas governor want voter registration data from every state.

A growing number of states are telling them to go pound sound and saying they won't comply.

Lord Dampnut's followers (and presumably Donnie McSmallhands himself soon) are in an uproar because "States can't turn down the Federal Government Rabble Rabble"

YOUR ENTIRE PARTY'S PLATFORM IS BUILT ON STATES RIGHTS (and ya know, fuck the poor)

It's possible I woke up in a parallel universe where the Right WASN'T the party of States Rights, but all other signs point toward "still stuck in the Dumpster Fire made flesh" universe."
posted by Twain Device at 8:50 AM on June 30, 2017 [52 favorites]


Perhaps consult the ACLU. [PDF]

That's last year's version (and last year's letter), which included mandatory minimums. They've been removed; you can consult the bill text I linked above.

I'm not gonna call anyone to support this bill but if we were in a functioning bipartisan operation I'd find this year's variation on this an acceptable sop to the immigration freaks (if it took out the misdemeanor drug offenses). People who commit violence against others aren't folks I'm excited to share a society with. I agree it's a waste of money to imprison them but I guess at my age I'm more inured to that aspect of our government. Plus as an advocate for lifetime imprisonment over executions I'd feel a little hypocritical condemning imprisonment purely on financial grounds.
posted by phearlez at 8:51 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


In summary: zero sum attitude towards defense, a dig at Obama, and our trade with Korea is nothing but bad, unfair, deals.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:54 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Working in immigration law as I do, I've encountered lots of folks who have been put into deportation proceedings or come close to it based on their criminal records. Some of the crimes in question were moderately severe, like domestic violence or large-scale shoplifting, and it wouldn't have pained me to see them kicked out of the country. But the others...

I've seen a guy get in deep trouble over an arrest for marijuana possession, for which he was never convicted, nearly twenty years in the past.

I've seen an elderly man, a WWII veteran, risk his naturalization case because when he was in the U.S. Navy seventy years ago he (and his shipmates, of course) patronized some prostitutes at some foreign port of call.

I've seen a dude go before an immigration judge with a theft conviction on his record because he had stolen a pen. Accidentally. A drugstore clerk handed him the pen to sign his receipt, and instead of handing it back he absentmindedly put it in his pocket and walked out, whereupon a security guard tackled him in the parking lot and handed him over to the cops. His lawyer, who had no idea about the repercussions to his immigration status, told him to plead guilty.

And I've seen a man have his marriage case endangered because thirty years ago, he kissed his boyfriend in a national park and a ranger charged him with disturbing the peace.

Immigrating to the United States is hard enough. We don't need more bullshit like Kate's Law making it even tougher.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:54 AM on June 30, 2017 [184 favorites]


aimed at cutting the flow of illegal guns into the city

If only we could think of ways to reduce the number of guns out there. It's truly a mysterious problem. /s
posted by phearlez at 8:54 AM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


This is Normal (Alex Pareene/Salon)

It's not normal.


I'm past giving a shit whether or not this is normal or not; more important is that none of this is right. Things are badly broken and no one appears to be doing anything.
posted by nubs at 8:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Perhaps you should shut down the sale of all guns for 90 days while you figure out what's going on?
posted by Devonian at 8:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [152 favorites]


Hans van Spakovsky

More evidence that the writers are getting lazy: the name practically telegraphs "villain".
posted by Slothrup at 8:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


Let me get this straight...Let me make sure I'm putting the pieces together.

There's a major component of this that most people seem to be missing so far. DOJ asked states for complementary data on the same day. They're gearing up for a lawsuit against the states to force Voter ID, interstate crosscheck & other vote suppression schemes nationwide. Basically it's a Voting Rights Act in reverse.
posted by scalefree at 8:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


I don't think Donald tried to purposely distract from this with the Mika and Joe thing.

I disagree, to a point. His social media director tweeted insults at Mika and Joe 30 minutes prior to Donnie Two-Scoops's tweets. This was a coordinated social media effort, for some unknown purpose. My gut feeling is that this was intentional; someone on his staff knew it would distract from the collusion evidence reveal, and rolled with it. It's not like Donnie wouldn't go along with the idea to get some attention by insulting a girl on twitter, y'know?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Literally no one ever has ever cared about state's rights. people don't feel that way about implementation details of federal/multi-tier governing systems. When it appears that people feel that way about the implementation details of federal/multi-tier governing systems, it's because they have reason to believe that a specific level of government will implement their preferred policies in a specific case.

The only reason people — left, liberal, or hard-right — talk about these administrative details is because it's widely believed that if you discuss decision-making processes rather than specific decisions, you're thereby strengthening your argument — you're not saying "the government should implement this thing we want cause we want it," you're saying "the government should follow this particular procedure because in abstract terms that procedure is the most fair procedure oh and also it yields the result I prefer," which (provided you say the quiet part quiet enough) makes you come off as a disinterested, even-handed arbiter rather than as an actual participant in politics. It's a way of pretending that you'd be on the side you're on even if you didn't have material reason to be on that side.

It's a rhetorical move that's sometimes effective at moving the masses, but that should never be taken as a sincere statement of personal belief.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:04 AM on June 30, 2017 [82 favorites]


"State's Rights" as a slogan never once meant anything other than "we want to say white supremacy with some plausible deniability" and if you're baffled that right-wingers are a-okay using the federal government to trample the states, it's because you fucking fell for it.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:10 AM on June 30, 2017 [61 favorites]


> The only reason people — left, liberal, or hard-right — talk about these administrative details is because it's widely believed that if you discuss decision-making processes rather than specific decisions, you're thereby strengthening your argument

No, actually, a lot of liberals believe in the concept of a strong federal government as a political objective in and of itself, irrespective of other political goals that may be hindered by that belief.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:13 AM on June 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


More Bob Vulfov, McSweeney's: MY NAME IS MITCH MCCONNELL AND I OWE THANATOS, THE GOD OF DEATH, 22 MILLION HUMAN SOULS
I wish there were another way, I really do. I’ve read many health care proposals from conservative think tanks that would provide a tax break to the wealthiest Americans while also providing coverage to those who need it. I could easily pass any of those bills with enough bipartisan support in the House and Senate. But, those bills won’t provide me with the death count I need to escape the grip of Thanatos and his sinister bargain. Boy, oh boy. What a pickle I am in.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:14 AM on June 30, 2017 [89 favorites]


needs [satire] tag.
posted by dragstroke at 9:17 AM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


WOW gerstle! Let us know how it goes.
posted by yoga at 9:18 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


gerstle: Thank you for being willing to put your family's medical experiences out there to help fight Trumpcare.

It's these sorts of personal stories that turn the tide.
posted by mcduff at 9:18 AM on June 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


I disagree, to a point. His social media director tweeted insults at Mika and Joe 30 minutes prior to Donnie Two-Scoops's tweets. This was a coordinated social media effort, for some unknown purpose. My gut feeling is that this was intentional; someone on his staff knew it would distract from the collusion evidence reveal, and rolled with it. It's not like Donnie wouldn't go along with the idea to get some attention by insulting a girl on twitter, y'know?

That's just his social media guy leading him by the nose, not any kind of strategic plan by Trump himself. He has urges & follows them. When things get hot & uncomfortable in one aspect of his life he feels an increased urge to lash out at someone else, as much to distract himself as anyone else. Anything to fill the void at the place where his soul should be.
posted by scalefree at 9:19 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]




Meanwhile, in Maine....

Last night the legislature came to a compromise state budget agreement that everyone hates (adds new taxes on lodging, overturns the voter-approved tax surcharge earmarked for education funding and so vastly reduces the amount of money the state will provide to local districts to support public education), but that a bare majority of legislators will vote for.

Today, Paul LePage says he won't sign it, but he won't veto it either. Instead, he's going to simply sit on it for ten working days, meaning that the State will shut down for two weeks. 12,000+ state workers will be furloughed without pay. Essential workers (particularly the state police and state park staff) will work those two weeks without any pay. Local activists have a court hearing scheduled today at 1 pm to force the state to pay state benefits (particularly food assistance) during the shutdown. The last time the state shut down (in 1991) those benefits were not paid.

So, in summary, our Governor is a complete shithead who will cause suffering to tens of thousands of people to satisfy his own ego instead of doing his job.
posted by anastasiav at 9:23 AM on June 30, 2017 [78 favorites]


Narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury

Exactly. God I love the Internet sometimes. Mostly when it says I'm right.
posted by scalefree at 9:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]




So, in summary, our Governor is a complete shithead who will cause suffering to tens of thousands of people to satisfy his own ego instead of doing his job.

This describes the Governors of many states these days, unfortunately.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]




> So, in summary, our Governor is a complete shithead who will cause suffering to tens of thousands of people to satisfy his own ego instead of doing his job.

AKA "The 2020 GOP Presidential frontrunner."
posted by tonycpsu at 9:27 AM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


three more years of this?
posted by infini at 9:28 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's only the end of June. It feels like it's been a few years since the inauguration. Damn, this is exhausting.
posted by azpenguin at 9:31 AM on June 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


I'm sorry, entire state of Maine. Christ what an asshole.
posted by greermahoney at 9:35 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


we desperately need a national consensus that if a state - or federal government, does not pass its budget by its appointed deadline, the government is dissolved, new elections are held and NONE of the office holders will be allowed to run in those elections
posted by pyramid termite at 9:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [55 favorites]


I guess if you literally only have one public policy idea, you have to stick to your guns on it.

Sticking to guns is Republicans' other only public policy idea.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:42 AM on June 30, 2017 [60 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: After the president’s tweet, I must withdraw my support for everything but his agenda
I stand with my colleagues in Congress to say: The president’s tweet is beneath the dignity of the office.

This is not making America great.

The president has at last done the unthinkable: He has insulted a morning television personality in crude and ghastly terms
and I must — in consequence of this hideous and vile breach of the dignity of the office — withdraw none of my support from his legislative agenda. (If you can call it a legislative agenda and not a ragtag collection of bad ideas quickly stapled together with a dead pigeon in the middle.)

His remark about Mika Brzezinski is absolutely shameful and I do not stand with him, except insofar as it is necessary to stand with him so that we can make sure infants get access to pesticides, as the Founders would have wished.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:42 AM on June 30, 2017 [151 favorites]


One and a half percentage point increase in the lodging tax. Like, a few dollars on an average hotel night, mostly paid by people from out of state. But that's too much, because it contravenes the "only cut taxes" GOP dogma.

So, here's the punchline to that: In LePage's original budget proposal, back in January, he proposed increasing the lodging tax from 9% to 10%. They literally did the thing he himself proposed, but now he's using it as an excuse not to sign.

Jesus wept.
posted by anastasiav at 9:43 AM on June 30, 2017 [54 favorites]


Oh hey the Texas Supreme Court is a piece of shit again.

Those the law refuses to protect owe it nothing.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:44 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


if a state - or federal government, does not pass its budget by its appointed deadline, the government is dissolved

So if Republicans want to destroy the government, all they'd have to do is obstruct a budget resolution?
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:46 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I really didn't think the Morning Joe tweet would be the "surely this" that we were waiting for, but uh, okay?
posted by miratime at 9:47 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


So if Republicans want to destroy the government, all they'd have to do is obstruct a budget resolution?

yes, but they'll have to find other people to run in the resulting election
posted by pyramid termite at 9:48 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


He MUST be impeached

Count your votes, what no majority? Well get to work gerrymandering for your side, maybe fix the score by 2022?
posted by sammyo at 9:49 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Looks like Kushner was the "top admin official" orchestrating the Enquier/Morning Joe blackmail [NYMag]:
In mid-April, Scarborough texted with Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner about the pending Enquirer story. Kushner told Scarborough that he would need to personally apologize to Trump in exchange for getting Enquirer owner David Pecker to stop the story. (A spokesperson for Kushner declined to comment). Scarborough says he refused, and the Enquirer published the story in print on June 5, headlined “Morning Joe Sleazy Cheating Scandal!”
posted by melissasaurus at 9:49 AM on June 30, 2017 [67 favorites]


I can't believe Maine Guy is going to shut down the state parks over the July 4th weekend. That's a recipe for a backlash.
posted by bq at 9:49 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Oh hey the Texas Supreme Court is a piece of shit again.

There possibly has never been a time it wasn't a piece of shit. They are currently all statewide elected Republican justices. It is often only when you find yourself directly downwind that you are rudely reminded of its inherent fecality...
posted by jim in austin at 9:51 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Guys, sorry for the delay on elections news. I'm under the weather. Will return anon.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:52 AM on June 30, 2017 [30 favorites]


I really didn't think the Morning Joe tweet would be the "surely this" that we were waiting for, but uh, okay?

I know but when you have the president basically publicly indicting himself as a co-conspirator in a blackmail case it gets kind of harder to ignore.
posted by Talez at 9:52 AM on June 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


> Looks like Kushner was the "top admin official" orchestrating the Enquier/Morning Joe blackmail [NYMag]:

Dang, he really is a wunderkind to be able to juggle blackmailing of media figures while also bringing peace to the Middle East, ending the opioid epidemic, and reforming the criminal justice system.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:53 AM on June 30, 2017 [53 favorites]


"Let me get this straight...Let me make sure I'm putting the pieces together.

Federal Commission led by Pence and an Arkansas governor want voter registration data from every state.


It's not particularly relevant to your larger point — Kobach is a garbage person no matter where he's from — but he's the Kansas Secretary of State, not governor of Arkansas.
posted by rewil at 9:53 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Have no fear, Massachusettsians and Quebecois (whom I assume make up the bulk of visitors to Maine this time of year): Our Boy Paul has declared state park workers "essential," so they have to report to work, even if they won't get paid.
posted by adamg at 9:53 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Federal Commission led by Pence and an Arkansas governor want voter registration data from every state.

Have they requested the data be encrypted? Because I'm seeing some concern about that on Twitter...
posted by suelac at 9:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dang, he really is a wunderkind to be able to juggle blackmailing of media figures while also bringing peace to the Middle East, ending the opioid epidemic, and reforming the criminal justice system.

Wunderkind? I thought the word was spelled "consigliere".
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Okay so, collusion with Russia, blackmailing a media figure, and inarguably unstable and unfit to be Predisent.

Is it any wonder 80% of Republicans love the guy?
posted by petebest at 9:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]




I know but when you have the president basically publicly indicting himself as a co-conspirator in a blackmail case it gets kind of harder to ignore.

We've been here before. Nothing is going to touch the fucker.
posted by Artw at 10:00 AM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Federal Commission led by Pence and an Arkansas governor want voter registration data from every state.

Have they requested the data be encrypted? Because I'm seeing some concern about that on Twitter.


Yeah the letter just provided an email destination for the request (a secure FTP drop was the second fallback option listed) with no mention of any security. It's the usual clown show.
posted by phearlez at 10:02 AM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


What's that adage about how some people just want to watch the world burn?

To be fair, if you've never seen a large ship sink, it really is pretty captivating.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:04 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Have they requested the data be encrypted?

I thought that they were just asking for data that are already publicly (or at least widely) available? (Which is still slightly confusing to me because then why do they need to ask for it in the first place?)
posted by ElKevbo at 10:07 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]




There's a huge failure of imagination involved in making the move from saying "the state needs enough authority and legitimacy and force of law behind it to enact public policy that can be taken seriously and do good" versus "Regulations and state power are always good things." Believe me, I've seen the law and regulations screw people unfairly enough to know it doesn't always or even often work as intended now, but the solution to that isn't to quit trying and fall back on beliefs and ways of doing things we already know don't work any better. Also, it's a huge mistake to think that just having a rule or policy means institutions and the legal system can run on autopilot without human judgement playing a role. You need the right system and people heavily invested and committed to making it work because no system of any kind humans build or conceive could ever be self policing and immune to mismanagement and abuse. That's not a private/public sector problem, but just an ordinary human fallibility + challenges of organizational complexity problem. The impulse to just throw the entire federal government into a wastebasket because it's been failing us pretty badly for a while now is a childish impulse that goes in exactly the wrong direction to bring real improvement to our lives. Like it or not, there's just no alternative to having democratic mechanisms for establishing and enforcing rules of fairplay and to look out for the general welfare of Americans other than to leave those kinds of concerns up to chance and the whims of whoever has enough material and economic power to set the rules when there's a power vacuum at the level of state authority. When the government didn't play an active role, people were actively oppressed and forced to live under the de facto law of whoever had the most monopoly power over economic resources. The trend for the last 30 years or so has been to increase that trend toward a reversal of democratic norms and political institutions responsive to the popular will and longer term public interest.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:08 AM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


Talking points for your state's top election official (usually Sec. of State or Governor) to demand they withhold voter roles from Kris Kobach:
  • Expect official to withhold the information
  • Widespread voter fraud is not occurring
  • Expect them to publicly state that they will protect voter data from this predatory UnAmerican "commission"
  • Commission cannot be trusted because is headed by Kris Kobach, notorious for illegally disenfranchising eligible voters and lying in court about intending to illegally disenfranchise voters
  • Sensitive information will apparently be made public, include each voter's name, birth date, address, party affiliation, last 4 social security digits, and voting history
  • While some of these data are public, the confluence of them make them a ripe target for identity theft and for systematized harassment
  • The intent of the commission is disenfranchise voters and allow systematized harassment campaigns to be conducted against voters
For officials who seem to be inclined to comply:
  • Complying with this demand will make utterly clear that they are a rubber stamp for the agendas of Donald Trump, Kris Kobach, and D**id D*ke
  • Such compliance would show that they do not support one of our most treasured rights--the right to vote
  • Compliance ensure that you will campaign against them and make sure everyone you know will be told repeatedly of their weakness in the face of Trump's racist, UnAmerican agenda
For those who have resisted:
  • Thank them for protecting our voting rights and resisting the Trump agenda
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:13 AM on June 30, 2017 [46 favorites]


TPM's Josh Marshall with Questions To Consider About That WSJ Collusion Article:
Second, Smith wasn’t some random GOP operative with some time on his hands. He had been deep in the the ‘Arkansas Project’ back in the 90s, the money operation that brought us ‘troopergate’ back in the day and to a great extent brought us ‘Whitewater’. Smith had long histories with a lot of big GOP players who are still very active and a number of people who are now top people in the Trump world. [...]

Let’s also remember that this isn’t the first case of this. A month ago two other reporters from the Journal published a story about Aaron Nevins, a GOP political consultant in Florida who reached out to Guccifer 2.0 (now widely believed to have been a front of fictive personality used by Russian intelligence operatives) looking for more operational data for campaigns he was running last year. Shane Harris, the reporter on the new story, also contributed reporting to that story about Aaron Nevins. [...]

This seems to have been a widespread belief among the more adventurous run of GOP political operatives last year: if your interests align with Russian intelligence operatives, it’s not a problem.

I doubt this is the last or even the 10th from last story we’ll hear like this.


posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:20 AM on June 30, 2017 [42 favorites]


I thought that they were just asking for data that are already publicly (or at least widely) available?

They're going to be giving away names, addresses, registration status, party affiliation, and LAST FOUR SSN NUMBERS.

I barely trust my employer with this information, much less the aforesaid clown show. Think of the damage that is going to be done with that information, even ignoring the possibility of voter suppression. Before you can spit the script-kiddies in St. Petersburg will be going to town with it.
posted by suelac at 10:20 AM on June 30, 2017 [41 favorites]


> There's a huge failure of imagination involved in making the move from saying "the state needs enough authority and legitimacy and force of law behind it to enact public policy that can be taken seriously and do good" versus "Regulations and state power are always good things."

What argument are you responding to here? Because "regulations and state power are always good things" is a sentiment I don't think I've ever seen expressed with any sincerity on this site.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:26 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Add Tennessee to the list of states telling them to go pound sand on the voter registration:

Well bra-vo. Good to see my state doing something right for a change.
posted by vibrotronica at 10:29 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Smith had long histories with a lot of big GOP players who are still very active and a number of people who are now top people in the Trump world.

This is important to the narrative, not just because of the potential scope it implies, but also because it helps shut down one of the GOP's main talking points: "He's new at this; he's an outsider; don't blame us for Trump's actions; etc." This was a long-time GOP operative who did this, not some 20 year old gamergater who sells Trump Org timeshares. And it helps highlight that the GOP political strategy went full reactionary-Trumpist with B. Clinton's election in 92, not with H. Clinton's candidacy in 2016. It's not just Trump; it's all of them. This is who they are.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:32 AM on June 30, 2017 [35 favorites]




I feel like I am having a monkey's paw moment - I think that in a normal year, run by responsible people, having uniform voting standards and a state cross check to ensure no dual registrations would be amazing! But I fundamentally do not trust these people further than I can throw them, which is not particularly far.
posted by corb at 10:34 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


we desperately need a national consensus that if a state - or federal government, does not pass its budget by its appointed deadline, the government is dissolved, new elections are held and NONE of the office holders will be allowed to run in those elections

I sympathize with your sentiment here—seriously, I'd love to see these fuckers lose their seats en masse—but there's no doubt in my mind this wouldn't just become the latest weaponization of administrative procedure. Politicians would just turn the fight over the budget into the fight to press the reset button in their own favor, after purposely not passing a budget by the deadline.
posted by Rykey at 10:35 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Jay Ashcroft is our SOS and considering the hard on he has for VoterID he has probably already sent the info to Kobach with an Edible Arrangement.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


> I feel like I am having a monkey's paw moment - I think that in a normal year, run by responsible people, having uniform voting standards and a state cross check to ensure no dual registrations would be amazing! But I fundamentally do not trust these people further than I can throw them, which is not particularly far.

I'm so old that I can remember arguments about how giving too much power to an administration you like was a bad idea, because administrations change and then the bad guy has the power.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


A young Japanese student with a valid F-1 visa was interrogated for 12 hours at LAX and then denied entry to the US when they found a text on her phone about getting free entry to a night club, claiming she must've been working at the club illegally in order to get in for free.

FFS, this is madness! How is this making us any safer? Even by their own convoluted concept of safety, this is just dickishness for the sake of dickishness. The brain drain, the loss of tourism money, willfully abdicating our soft power-- it's so maddening to watch people break shit just because they can.
posted by bluecore at 10:39 AM on June 30, 2017 [133 favorites]


I thought that they were just asking for data that are already publicly (or at least widely) available?

Not everywhere and not to everyone. I addressed this in the last thread with regards to Virginia. In other states some of it is public and some not, which is why there's at least one official saying they'll provide the stuff that FOI law says they will provide to anyone and they're looking into the rest.
posted by phearlez at 10:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Michigan SOS reply, via Facebook:
Some people have asked about Michigan's policy of releasing voter information, especially as it relates to a possible request from the federal government.
At this point, the Michigan Department of State has not received a request, but if we do, we will review it.
People should know that voter lists in Michigan and across the country are public record under state law and have been for decades. The department has no authority not to provide voter data. It is common for political parties and candidates to obtain voter info.
The department will provide voter information consistent with state law and will not provide info protected by state law.
It's worth noting that even in states in which a secretary of state has said that voter info won’t be provided to the federal government, voter info is in fact readily available for a nominal fee.
posted by Etrigan at 10:45 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]




I feel like I am having a monkey's paw moment - I think that in a normal year, run by responsible people, having uniform voting standards and a state cross check to ensure no dual registrations would be amazing! But I fundamentally do not trust these people further than I can throw them, which is not particularly far.

My dad had a story he'd like to tell of meetings at the local Grange Hall where he grew up, presided over by a wily older gentleman who was well versed in Roberts Rules of Order & how to abuse them to get his way. For years Dad says he thought the way voting worked was like this:

WOG: I have a motion before the house. Do we have a second?
Random member: Second!
WOG: The motion has been seconded. All in favor say aye.
Many members: Aye!
WOG: Opposed & so voted.
posted by scalefree at 10:50 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Thanks for clarifications about the different statuses and availability of voter information. I should have known that there is immense variation among the different states and I appreciate being set straight with solid info!
posted by ElKevbo at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2017


Wait. So Kushner tries to blackmail Scarborough and Brzezinski, they don't bite, and the piece in question is published. Then they just sit on this for two months until Trump goes after them personally? They didn't think being blackmailed by the President's son-in-law was newsworthy on its own?

If there are text messages from Kushner, maybe show us them? You know, on the TV network you appear on five times a week? The one that exists ostensibly to talk about newsworthy things. Such as the President of the United States. Blackmailing you.
posted by zachlipton at 10:57 AM on June 30, 2017 [114 favorites]


They need to stop wasting money going around killing brown and black people the world over and start fixing shit like roads, ports, bridges, and education.
posted by infini at 10:58 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh look a policy statement from POTUS: If Republican Senators are unable to pass what they are working on now, they should immediately REPEAL, and then REPLACE at a later date!

As Greg Sargent at WaPo points out, this is just monstrous. If this doesn't demonstrate to anyone who can't pay six-figure medical bills in cash that Trump doesn't give a shit about them, nothing will. Bonus: it exposes the hypocrisy of every goddamned republican who blustered about wanting to repeal Obamacare on day 1. Now they realize they can't because people will actually start paying attention to their evil deeds if millions lose healthcare.
posted by craven_morhead at 10:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [38 favorites]


What's that adage about how some people just want to watch the world burn?

I believe it goes, "Some people just want to watch the world burn".
posted by qntm at 11:03 AM on June 30, 2017 [40 favorites]


If there are text messages from Kushner, maybe show us them?

"Put up or shut up" should apply to everyone involved in this covfefe.
Especially that fucking tick-tock guy.
And Trump extra-especially.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Mike Allen and Jonathan Swan for Axios: Trump overrules cabinet, plots global trade war.
With more than 20 top officials present, including Trump and Vice President Pence, the president and a small band of America First advisers made it clear they're hell-bent on imposing tariffs — potentially in the 20% range — on steel, and likely other imports.

The penalties could eventually extend to other imports. Among those that may be considered: aluminum, semiconductors, paper, and appliances like washing machines.

One official estimated the sentiment in the room as 22 against and 3 in favor — but since one of the three is named Donald Trump, it was case closed.
[...]
The reason, we're told: Trump's base — which drives more and more decisions, as his popularity sinks — likes the idea, and will love the fight.

The problem, according to top officials who argued strenuously that the move is ill-advised: The trade war wouldn't just affect China. The collateral damage would include a slew of allies, including Canada, Mexico, Japan, Germany and the United Kingdom.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


Wait. So Kushner tries to blackmail Scarborough and Brzezinski, they don't bite, and the piece in question is published. Then they just sit on this for two months until Trump goes after them personally? They didn't think being blackmailed by the President's son-in-law was newsworthy on its own?

Morning Joe has a lot to answer for; they certainly aren't winning any courage awards for their behavior in this election. But also, in this specific instance, Trump's people were stalking her children. Standing still rarely saves you from a narcissistic monster, but I can't blame her for trying it.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:05 AM on June 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


Especially that fucking tick-tock guy.

Wittes issued one "boom" for every "tick tick" he posted, and he's done posting them now.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:06 AM on June 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


Then they just sit on this for two months until Trump goes after them personally?

This is the whole problem, the sitting on it. I don't think they're alone, either - there have to be hundreds of people in Washington who have had fucked up interactions with President Trump and his minions since January and aren't going public with it, which is absolutely infuriating. I keep thinking that as soon as the dominoes start falling and it becomes undeniable that the whole Administration is collapsing, the process will be sped up by all these chickenshits who are too afraid to take a stand right now. But somebody has to be the first domino, and so far everyone still seems to think they can get away with not publicly standing up against this disgusting human being who is in the process of ineptly ruining every last bit of international prestige and strength America has left.

I guess we'll see what happens.
posted by something something at 11:07 AM on June 30, 2017 [28 favorites]


My question is whether or not the execs at NBC knew about this and asked them to sit on it "for now."

"Because we've got that big interview with [X] coming up."
"Because we don't want to lose access during the summit."
"Because we need to focus on [Y] as the issue of the day/week."
And on, and on, and on.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:10 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


As Greg Sargent at WaPo points out, this is just monstrous. If this doesn't demonstrate to anyone who can't pay six-figure medical bills in cash that Trump doesn't give a shit about them, nothing will.

Narrator voice: Nothing will.

But, as has been said many times here - there's no point in going after them. Anyone still with Trump will always be with Trump. Trying to convince them he sucks is a waste of time. The right move is to be ourselves and promote things like medicare for all. Those who would sooner die in the gutter of a preventable disease than vote D... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There are others who will vote their interest and, if there is no other choice, there are possible R candidates who will get on board.

Here the show don't tell should be showing what D candidates can offer, not telling these voters that what's being offered to them by Rs is crap.
posted by phearlez at 11:14 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Erik Wemple nails Joe Scarborough for trying to paint this as a recent change in Trump's behavior so the Morning Joe crew doesn't have to apologize for laughing it all up last year: ‘Morning Joe’ insists that Trump has changed. Yeah, right.
The claim that somehow Trump has gone from amiable jokester to baleful cretin in the course of two years marks the show’s latest defense for its early misdeeds. And it’s not going to fly in this space! Go ahead and scroll through Trump’s Twitter feed, the very instrument that he used to smear Brzezinski — who marveled at how many lies he’d fit into his Thursday tweets — as well as many other people going back years. The tweets he sends these days read a lot like the tweets he sent back when Scarborough claims he was “always in on the joke.” And beyond: “There is an absolute through line from his tweets of recent years going all the way back decades to the hand-scrawled notes to reporters — the same intemperate, impulsive language, the same insults, the same wit, the same search for just the right insult that has been a constant going back to the 1970s,” says Marc Fisher, who co-wrote a Post biography on Trump titled “Trump Revealed.”
I mean hell, even Ross Douthat is right on this one (about their WaPo op-ed): "A lot of words here, but "we helped Trump win the GOP nomination, and we're sorry" are strangely missing"

I'm glad Scarborough and Brzezinski are coming forward now, and I understand why they would have been reluctant to do so before, but they've treated this like a game since Trump launched his candidacy, and are now trying to pretend this is some kind of a shift so they don't have to take any responsibility for their previous praise of the guy. It is blatantly clear to any casual observer of the man that this is precisely how he's behaved for ages and not some kind of new low or sudden decline.
posted by zachlipton at 11:14 AM on June 30, 2017 [64 favorites]


I'm glad Scarborough and Brzezinski are coming forward now, and I understand why they would have been reluctant to do so before, but they've treated this like a game since Trump launched his candidacy, and are now trying to pretend this is some kind of a shift so they don't have to take any responsibility for their previous praise of the guy.

An awful lot of rhetoric, left and right, from 2015-2016 was predicated on a deep-down assurance that Donald Trump couldn't possibly win the Presidency.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:16 AM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


Jason Stein/Milwaukee Journal Sentinel: Wisconsin election commission to Trump panel: You want voter data? Pay for it. And apparently a lot of the data being asked for isn't available anyway under Wisconsin law.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:16 AM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


But, as has been said many times here - there's no point in going after them. Anyone still with Trump will always be with Trump. Trying to convince them he sucks is a waste of time.

To run the numbers, 62 million people voted for Trump, 73 million voted against him, and 93 million eligible voters stayed home (and/or were prevented from voting). The goal should be to shift people into B from C, not from A.
posted by Etrigan at 11:20 AM on June 30, 2017 [54 favorites]


No, actually, a lot of liberals believe in the concept of a strong federal government as a political objective in and of itself, irrespective of other political goals that may be hindered by that belief.

Probably because a a lot of liberals live in cities that routinely get fucked over by their own state governments.
posted by srboisvert at 11:22 AM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


Callum Borchers for WaPo: The feud between Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity is bigger than them
The Coulter faction's principal loyalty is to the ideas Trump embodied during the campaign. The Hannity group's primary allegiance is to Trump himself.
...
Tensions erupted on Wednesday when Coulter ripped Hannity for editing an interview that aired on his Fox News show last Thursday in which Coulter criticized Trump's inclusion of Goldman Sachs alumni such as chief economic adviser Gary Cohn in his administration.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:25 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Artw: Nothing is going to touch the fucker.

If that's what you believe, that's what you believe... and hey, whatever gets you through the night. But not all of us believe that, and none of us actually know.

So does it really need to be said, over and over?

Because some of us need other things to get us through the night than others do. And some of us find your method upsetting.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:31 AM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


infini: They need to stop wasting money going around killing brown and black people the world over and start fixing shit like roads, ports, bridges, and education.

But that's not the role of the Federal Government, because States and Locals will misuse those or other Federal funds for infrastructure. From the FAQ (PDF) for the re-branded INFRA Grant Program (it used to be the FASTLANE Grant):
Evidence has shown that, in the past, when some State and local governments receive and spend federal funding for infrastructure, they divert future funding away from key infrastructure needs towards other uses – leading to little or no net benefit to infrastructure. With nearly $9.8 billion in funding requested in FY 2016 for FASTLANE, we need to take steps to get more bang for the buck. By getting more of our partners to use federal funding as a supplement — not a substitute — we seek to increase the amount of overall funding that goes to infrastructure.
This is pretty much saying "some agencies got grant money, then took the funding that would have improved those facilities and used it elsewhere." Except this is money for transportation infrastructure, and I don't think any states have huge coffers of money for any project. It's already limited to transportation projects, it's not like a state or city is going to go off and build a golf course or tennis court for a political donor, or even a hospital or school.

Or perhaps someone who wrote this thought "states have enough money to fix their own roads, why are they always complaining?" I promise you, this was not written by someone who was in the U.S. DOT before January 20, 2017. This is not a FAQ, it's a political statement.

But it's a half-assed statement. Look at the notes after the table of the changes (PDF):

What stayed the same from previous FASTLANE competitions?
The eligible costs, project types, cost share, project sizes and other requirements defined by the
statute have not changed.

That's right, they changed the selection criteria (sort of*), but didn't change what kind of projects and costs are eligible.

* They added "accountability" as a criteria, which is a bullshit term until they define how they'll consider "accountability" differently than they do now. The Feds can decline to reimburse funds, or even ask for money back if they find an issue with a project after the fact.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:33 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


The United States has a terminal illness. I'm stuck between the images of wanting to save the patient and working my ass off vs. just putting it in hospice and saying my prayers.
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Republicans keep saying "Run government like a business".

If Tim Cook tweeted mean things about Marissa Mayer's face and refused to apologize or stand down, he'd be fired.

So what are you waiting for, House GOP?
posted by 0xFCAF at 11:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [61 favorites]


No, actually, a lot of liberals believe in the concept of a strong federal government as a political objective in and of itself, irrespective of other political goals that may be hindered by that belief

Another reason is that in the past, the Federal government has been the way to force the states that lag behind the rest of the country to be fair and actually treat citizens according to the constitution. This was done with slavery, civil rights, voting rights, and most recently with marriage equality. The Feds can't always be relied on to do the right thing, but the very way our country is set us is that the Federal government and SCOTUS is the last line of defense for a citizen to challenge the state.
posted by teleri025 at 11:36 AM on June 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


It is blatantly clear to any casual observer of the man that this is precisely how he's behaved for ages and not some kind of new low or sudden decline.

For them it is a new low, because his behaviour has never been directed at them before. It's all abstract until it's personal.
posted by nubs at 11:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [33 favorites]


Trade tariffs on semiconductors?

What the hell do they think... oh, ok, never mind.
posted by Devonian at 11:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Talking points for your state's top election official (usually Sec. of State or Governor) to demand they withhold voter roles from Kris Kobach

What do you do when your Secretary of State is on the damn committee?
posted by schoolgirl report at 11:37 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


FYI, the Enquirer blackmail story reported that Mika and Joe were sleeping together before finalizing their divorces from previous spouses. (YAWN) It also revelas that this is what Trump tweeted about last year, threatening to reveal something. Here is a copy of the article on Magzter; I don't subscribe to them but it worked for me.
posted by msalt at 11:39 AM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


What do you do when your Secretary of State is on the damn committee?

Call your state legislators.
posted by Etrigan at 11:39 AM on June 30, 2017


This is pretty much the soundtrack to my life right now (I mean moreso than usual).

Thanks for that, elsietheeel. I've really been needing an alternative to this.
posted by Trinity-Gehenna at 11:40 AM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Continued thoughts on the re-branded INFRA Grant Program from above:

And as I mentioned in the prior thread, this new grant was dropped on States and other agencies out of the blue, in an email on Wednesday morning. Last year, U.S. DOT, FHWA and/or AASHTO would have been mentioning a new funding source or that they were going to change the rules of a grant for the next call, and list some dates for webinars to further discuss what the changes mean. Instead, webinars aren't mentioned on the initial email, and it's "TBD" on U.S. DOT's website, while the window to apply is only open until August 1, 2017.

Oh, and this is also a NOFO for Federal Fiscal Year 2017 and 2018 funds. FYI, FFY 2017 ends on September 30. While Federal funds like these generally have three years past the year of encumbrance to be used, they're burning through that first year, and major construction projects are not fast. Stellar work, Team Trump.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:41 AM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


If that's what you believe, that's what you believe... and hey, whatever gets you through the night. But not all of us believe that, and none of us actually know.

So does it really need to be said, over and over?

Because some of us need other things to get us through the night than others do. And some of us find your method upsetting.


I’m sorry my expression of shock and dismay alarms you. Let me qualify:
Absolutely nothing is going to touch the fucker short of democrat wins in 2018 and 2020, which will be heavily resisted and will be a minor miracle of people power over coming dirty tricks if they happen. Or possibly violent revolution.

Trump suffering any consequence of his actions before that? Not going to happen. The media will endlessly disappoint you, the democrats can’t do shit and republicans may make frown faces but actually actively approve of his evil.

We’re in a bad way, sorry.
posted by Artw at 11:43 AM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


Artw, you can say that as often as you want, but that doesn't make it true. The truth is that no one knows what's going to happen.
Yes, y'all are in a bad way, and I'm sorry. And it influences the rest of us, too. But we still don't know when and how that will change.
posted by Too-Ticky at 11:50 AM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


This is pretty much the soundtrack to my life right now (I mean moreso than usual).

My soundtrack is "Gimme Shelter" on permanent loop.
For best results, set volume to maximum.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:50 AM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


via @BraddJaffy: The Republican SoS from Indiana, citing Indiana law, will not give voter information to Kobach.

Said Secretary of State is apparently also on the panel.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:51 AM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Merry Clayton's voice cracking is how I feel inside every day
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:52 AM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


Why regulations matter and libertarian oh the market will fix it beliefs are somewhere between naive and horseshit, part one million.
America’s retail giants have spent a decade ignoring signs of labor abuse in their supply chains, sometimes fighting government efforts to crack down, even as thousands of truckers were driven into debt and poverty, a USA TODAY Network investigation has found.

Target, Costco, Hewlett-Packard and many others have benefited from California port trucking companies that forced their drivers into debt, made them work up to 20 hours a day and sometimes paid them pennies per hour.

Retailers and manufacturers rarely hire the truckers directly. Instead, they rely on a maze of subcontractors to move their goods and have paid little attention to who their direct vendors hire.

In the 1990s, similar abuses in overseas manufacturing operations led to a widespread crackdown by U.S. brands, which now scour through their production operations to weed out child labor abuses, forced overtime and debt-driven schemes that exploit workers.
posted by phearlez at 11:52 AM on June 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


Let's not relitigate the "totally fucked" vs. "not totally fucked" primary every single day.
posted by Behemoth at 11:53 AM on June 30, 2017 [31 favorites]


What do you do when your Secretary of State is on the damn committee?

Mine, too. Although he's a Dem and he says in the article "If you're not at the table, you're on it." which I think is damn pragmatic of him.
posted by anastasiav at 11:55 AM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Let's not relitigate the "totally fucked" vs. "not totally fucked" primary every single day.

Hmm. What if the musical we're stuck in isn't Hamilton, it's "Totally Fucked" from Spring Awakening?
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, deep breaths and charity toward one another and etc.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:59 AM on June 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


This is my soundtrack.

David Byrne is my patronus.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:02 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Anyone else consistently imagine Jonah Ryan (Jonah Ryan) when they hear Jonah Goldberg speak?
posted by From Bklyn at 12:03 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm in Pennsylvania and just called my governor's office to ask if they are going to release voter lists. The staffer said that Gov. Wolf hasn't made a statement yet but the staffer emphasized that he has been regularly standing up to Trump (he has! and I'm so thankful for it!) -- he said this in a way that made it seem likely that they aren't going to release the voter lists.

If you are in PA, you might want to call Wolf and tell him what you think. 717-787-2500
posted by mcduff at 12:05 PM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


filthy light thief: ... the window to apply [for INFRA Grants] is only open until August 1, 2017.

Self-correction: the NOFO states "The Grants.gov “Apply” function will be open by August 1, 2017." I am still unsure when the 120 window opened and closes.

Anyway, here's one final pull-quote to reiterate that this administration isn't interested in investments for the public good, but throwing money towards private companies who might do some good with it:
“The President and the Department are committed to revitalizing, repairing and rebuilding America’s aging infrastructure,” said Secretary Elaine L. Chao. “By ensuring the right incentives, projects selected under this program will be better able to make significant, long-term improvements to America’s transportation infrastructure.”
Because we wouldn't want to be offering "hand-outs" to states and local governments, but instead give "incentives" to businesses.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:06 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


The "repeal, then replace", I could actually see as much more generous than the ACHA, because they wouldn't be bound by reconciliation rules to save money, plus Dems would be under a lot more pressure to vote yes for generous benefits. However, for our purposes that would not actually be good, because it would mean the fascists had learned how to make populism work for them, and we would be in danger of him actually getting re elected, and continuing a lot of other really harmful policies.
posted by corb at 12:09 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


What do you do when your Secretary of State is on the damn committee?

In defense of participation here, in addition to the comments noted above by anastasiav about Maine's SoS Dunlap being a Dem serving in a monitoring, if not moderating,role, I present you with the statement from Indiana SoS who is a Republican and also on the commission but issued a statement today that she and the state of IN wont be providing the requested information.

It seems obvious that the commission doesn't really exist in any functional form - if it did perhaps they would have resolved legal impediments (let alone philosophical ones) about the types of information that could/would be shared with the feds by the states. You know, by consulting the membership of their own group.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:10 PM on June 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


Repeal and replace would actually just be repeal and therefore bad for anyone who needs healthcare of any form.
posted by Artw at 12:15 PM on June 30, 2017 [16 favorites]


So, in summary, our Governor is a complete shithead who will cause suffering to tens of thousands of people to satisfy his own ego instead of doing his job.


My governor is worse.
posted by DrAstroZoom at 12:18 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


it would mean the fascists had learned how to make populism work for them

This, at least, does not seem to be happening and Trump appears to be incapable of any steps that would make it happen - and if he goes what populist support they do have goes with him.

So that at least is a tiny light in the darkness.
posted by Artw at 12:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Vanity Fair: Exclusive: Mika Speaks! A Day After Trump’s Horrific Tweet, Brzezinski Reveals How It All Went Down. The most alarming bit:
[Brzezinski] said that she had told Melania Trump about the procedure when the couple stopped by Mar-a-Lago on New Year’s Eve. “The irony of it all is that Donald kept saying, ‘That’s incredible. You can’t even tell. Who did it? Who did it?’ He kept asking for the name of the doctor. He literally asked 10 times. ‘Is he down here? Who is he?’” Scarborough recalled. (A spokesman from the White House declined to comment.)
Also:
It wasn’t the first time the co-hosts and their staff had to react to being on the other end of the president’s ire. Last summer, he tweeted that Brzezinski was “a neurotic and not very bright mess!” and threatened to “tell the real story” about their relationship.

Afterward, they said that the president’s son-in-law and senior adviser, Jared Kushner, brokered a meeting with the four of them. Brzezinski said she explained that the tweet had caused a lot of hurt to her children and family. Trump, she said, apologized.

“Jared said we should end the meeting right then and there, because it was one of the only times he had heard him apologize,” Scarborough said. (A White House spokesman had no comment about this meeting and the apology.)
Turns out Brzezinski had a card to play of her own. Of all the things she could say to fight back, the one that's going to hurt Trump the most is telling the world Trump apologized to her last summer. And she just did it.
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [99 favorites]


The "repeal, then replace", I could actually see as much more generous than the ACHA, because they wouldn't be bound by reconciliation rules to save money, plus Dems would be under a lot more pressure to vote yes for generous benefits.

This presumes that (a) the Republican congress would be willing in any way to spend (which means either raising taxes or increasing deficits), (2) that there's a plan the Republican congress would support when the current Heritage Foundation penned one is unacceptable to them and (iii) that there's any significant reluctance to overcome among the Dems to vote for generous benefits. I see no support for any of these three things in observable reality.
posted by phearlez at 12:22 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Repeal, Then Replace (tm): Because J. Wellington Wimpy is totally going to pay you for your hamburger on Tuesday.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:24 PM on June 30, 2017 [26 favorites]


Annnnnd today I got a letter from my health insurer (IU Health) that they are pulling out of the exchange come Jan. 1. They "uncertainties and volatility". Guess IU Health shouldn't have spent money on Republican candidates if they don't like "uncertainties and volatility."

Why should Congress even bother with a repeal plan if these fucking insurers keep dropping out? The insurers are de facto repealing on their own. I won't have insurance come Jan.1, I'm afraid. I can barely afford what I have now.
posted by Thorzdad at 12:25 PM on June 30, 2017 [44 favorites]


Twenty federal gun agents have been assigned to Chicago to join a newly formed task force aimed at cutting the flow of illegal guns into the city and cracking down on people repeatedly arrested on gun charges.

The huge majority of guns flowing into Chicago are from the republican stronghold of Indiana.
posted by srboisvert at 12:28 PM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


The huge majority of guns flowing into Chicago are from the republican stronghold of Indiana.

A plurality of guns from out of state come from Indiana, but pretty near half come from Illinois itself, with most of those coming from adjacent cities and towns.
posted by Etrigan at 12:34 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah but Sarah Huckabee Sanders was asked about crime in Chicago during the off-camera press briefing, and:

@GlennThrush: Crime in Chicago 'is probably driven by morality more than anything else,' Sarah says when asked if easy access to guns is a problem.

I'll just let @darth take the commentary on this one: "is that what drives constantly lying in public as well sarah"
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on June 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


Meanwhile, the Russians have set up a radio station in D.C. because why should the FCC care?
posted by Devonian at 12:41 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Want to know who works for the White House and how much they all get paid? It's that time of year.
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


As someone pointed out in the last thread, you know POTUS makes fun of SHS's looks/weight, behind her back and probably to her face as well. And yet she's so outraged on his behalf! Girl, you need to love yourself.
posted by orrnyereg at 12:42 PM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


Mark Remy, New Yorker: Fox News 9-1-1
Thank you for calling 9-1-1, a division of Fox News. Your emergencies are important to us. Please listen carefully, as our menu options have changed.

To continue in English, just keep listening—everything here is in English, because, the last time we checked, this was ​America​, goddammit.

[Whispered] ​This call may be monitored or recorded.

If this is not an emergency, please hang up and stop being such a snowflake. If this is an emergency, please stay on the line and a pundit will be with you shortly. You may also tweet us @FoxNews, using the hashtag #fear.

If you are a white Christian male and you’re being persecuted, say or type “real minority.” If you are being harassed by a paid protester, say or type “Soros.”

If you are choking on your own rage, say or type “apoplexy.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:45 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


@GlennThrush: Crime in Chicago 'is probably driven by morality more than anything else,' Sarah says when asked if easy access to guns is a problem.

All the kids in Springfield are little S.O.B's.

Meanwhile, the Russians have set up a radio station in D.C. because why should the FCC care?

So the Russians are beating the Republicans much more than the Democrats? Food for thought. (NOT PRIMARYIST)
posted by petebest at 12:46 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


A plurality of guns from out of state come from Indiana, but pretty near half come from Illinois itself, with most of those coming from adjacent cities and towns.

And most of Illinois outside of Chicago, including the suburbs, is also a Republican stronghold.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:46 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]




CAIR has released a free civil rights app for reporting bias incidents, learning about your rights, and having quick contact info for CAIR's chapters and national HQ. Considering the increasing likelihood of non-Muslims witnessing anti-Muslim incidents, it'd be handy to have this.

Breitbart has an article about the app, claiming that spikes in anti-Muslim incidents are hoaxes (citing Breitbart articles for proof, of course). Some commenters are gleefully encouraging each other to download the app to report Muslim gatherings and "anti-white" incidents.

Speaking of abusers claiming victimhood, cryingoutforjustice.com has some decent posts about possible ways to spot and/or point it out: "Abusers evidence a mentality of superiority and certainty," and "don't take responsibility for their behavior." Caveat: abusers can be temporarily great at mimicking humility and "taking responsibility." (Uh, that site is seriously Christian to the point of disavowing Lundy Bancroft's Peak Living program because it's not any flavor of Christian and he thinks same-sex relationships are fine, but it's good that they call out believers who use Christianity to shield abuse, and they do endorse Bancroft's books.)
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 12:52 PM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


If they wanted to try and pull Democratic votes on board by offering generous benefits, thereby making Democratic 'no' votes look bad, they could do that with a concurrent repeal & replace bill

So you have to understand, I'm actually working from a place of extreme cynicism here, and assuming that the vast majority of congressmen are actually in it for their own self interest or could be influenced to act as such. So when I say "generous benefits", what I mean is "generous benefits for the section of the population likely to vote Republican", because that's the evil way populism works. Better for some is never better for all, which is the chilling nature of this sort of plan. There are many different ways they could do this, from felony convictions taking all your healthcare subsidy, to increasing subsidies for those more than 10 miles from hospital, probably a host of other ways.

By removing or lowering subsidies from high density cities, they could achieve the populist goal of punishing the urbanites Trump voters are so angry at, and also of saving money, by removing the subsidies for the poorest urbanites, which it's a good chunk of the population

Then they would only need to pick up the Democratic legislators from low density states- and instead of starting from the position that any bill must be better than the ACA, they would be starting from the negotiating position of any bill being better than no bill at all.

I think they could get the votes in that circumstance, if Trump ginned up his base, and they bribed Ted Cruz to deliver the conservative evangelicals again.

But fortunately they seem to be incompetent at both evil and populism, so we may all survive.
posted by corb at 12:52 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Want to know who works for the White House and how much they all get paid? It's that time of year.Yes, I've been reading it. Lots of interesting tidbits.

The inner circle makes the most: $179,700 which includes S. Bannon, S. Miller, K, McFarland, Priebus, Spicer, some lawyers, First Lady's chief of staff, and Omarosa!

Next tier is Seb Gorka And Sara H. Sanders at $165,000

Kushner is listed at $0.00

The Chief Calligrapher makes $102,212

Patrick P. McDonnell, research assistant and executive assistant (so maybe gofer) makes $40,000
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:53 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hah.. Even Kobach isn't going to fulfill Kobach's request.

Kobach now says Kansas won't be sharing the last 4 social.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:55 PM on June 30, 2017 [48 favorites]


Came back to share that same link Xyanthilous P Harrierstick.

In my earlier comment I suggested that this whole thing was a rushed sham and Kobach and Pence hadn't had time/interest in consulting with the other members of their commission. Im thinking maybe incompetence not malice explains this better.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:58 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


When you knowingly take on a job that affects millions of people, is there a distinction between incompetence & malice?
posted by narwhal at 1:03 PM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Also in the $179 700 is Hope Hicks.
posted by phoque at 1:06 PM on June 30, 2017


I thought $40,000 was as low as you could go but there is some guy named Liddle (Assistant to the President for strategic Initiatives) makes $30,000. Is he the guy that brings in the Diet Coke when Donnie Two Scoops pushes the red button?

Add Hope Hicks to the elite list pulling in $179,700

Ivanka* is also listed at $0 (listed as First Daughter and Advisor) as well as someone named Reed Cordish, Assistant to the President for Intergovernmental and Technology Initiatives

There are a small handful of people listed as "detailee" instead of employee. One of those is Mark S. House, Senior Policy advisor. He makes more than anybody else: $187,100

*Kushner's job is listed as Assistant to the President and Senior Advisor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:07 PM on June 30, 2017


In my earlier comment I suggested that this whole thing was a rushed sham and Kobach and Pence hadn't had time/interest in consulting with the other members of their commission. Im thinking maybe incompetence not malice explains this better.

Agreed. There was a suggestion that data be emailed back to the commission, which strikes me as incredibly open to tampering.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:08 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, in Europe: Marine Le Pen charged over EU funding scandal: lawyer

The charge is basically that they claimed fake EU aides and used the money to pay party staff in France during the election.
posted by msalt at 1:10 PM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


The voter fraud committee reads like the setup to a bad joke: How many Republican Secretaries of State can you get to all agree that voter fraud is rampant in every state except their own?
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:11 PM on June 30, 2017 [54 favorites]


America’s leaders and allies are asking themselves yet again whether this man is fit to be president. We have our doubts, but we are both certain that the man is not mentally equipped to continue watching our show.

This is a superb double bind.
posted by lastobelus at 1:13 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


thank you McDuff for the reminder; I will make thanking Gov Wolf a priority and urge that he hold his ground.
posted by angrycat at 1:14 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Jared's assistant makes $115,000. Bannon's assistant makes $40,000.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


I wonder.....in the last thread, I learned that the NC House is beginning impeachment against the NC Sec. State, for allegedly letting immigrants improperly become notaries....is that a pretext for trying to replace her with someone who will cough up our (my!) voter data?

And a shooting in a hospital is obscene....for me, the second-worst thing about the Va Tech shooting was that it happened in what, to me, is a semi-sacred space of tolerance and learning, what's supposed to be a safe place. (The worst was that a friend of mine died there). This makes me feel the same way.
posted by thelonius at 1:21 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


thank you McDuff for the reminder; I will make thanking Gov Wolf a priority and urge that he hold his ground.

Just as I faxed his office, his official Twitter account posted this Tweetstorm:
You can add PA to that list. We will not participate in this systematic effort to suppress the vote. I have serious reservations given historical suppression of voting rights and the Trump admin's false statements on the integrity of voting. During the campaign, then-candidate Trump repeatedly suggested wide-spread voter fraud in Pennsylvania without evidence. Even worse, after the election the President-elect said millions of votes in U.S. had been cast illegally while providing no evidence. These attacks on Pennsylvania and the country’s most important democratic institution - voting - remain unproven. I also have grave concerns that this is the precipitous pretext for pursuing restrictions on the fundamental right of citizens to vote. Here in PA, a court of law has already struck down a voter identification program for putting undo burden on this fundamental right. I have no interest in contributing to any effort to suppress the right to vote or create unnecessary or unfair burdens on voters. I would be more interested in hearing from the White House how they are protecting our elections from illegal and international influence. And I would support any effort to invest more federal funding in protecting our voter systems and improving voting technology. The right to vote is absolute and I have no confidence that you seek to bolster - not hinder – it. Voter suppression is undemocratic. I will not allow PA to participate in furthering the trend of suppression seen across the country.
It took until the end of the day before the holiday weekend for that press release, but it's worth it.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:26 PM on June 30, 2017 [76 favorites]


Bannon's assistant makes $40,000.

The correct term is "familiar"
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:28 PM on June 30, 2017 [87 favorites]


Presidential Commission Demands Massive Amounts of State Voter Data (Jessica Huseman, ProPublica)

The letter asked state officials to deliver the data within two weeks, and says that all information turned over to the commission will be made public. The letter does not explain what the commission plans to do with voter roll data . . .

“You’d think there would want to be a lot of thought behind security and access protocols for a national voter file, before you up and created one,” said Justin Levitt, a professor at Loyola University School of Law and former Department of Justice civil rights official. “This is asking to create a national voter file in two weeks.”

David Becker, the executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research, also expressed serious concerns about the request. “It’s probably a good idea not to make publicly available the name, address and military status of the people who are serving our armed forces to anyone who requests it,” he said.


Blah blah logic, reason, sanity.

Kobach also runs the Interstate Voter Registration Crosscheck Program, a proprietary piece of software started by Kansas Secretary of State Ron Thornburgh in 2005.

There we go! Naked corruption right there in full view of everybody. Sure. Because TrumpWorld.
posted by petebest at 1:34 PM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


The Business Inisder story by Natasha Bertrand citing WSJ's reporting is nice because it is unpaywalled and provides more context... And doesn't bury the lede. Russian hackers reportedly discussed how to steal Clinton's emails and transfer them to Michael Flynn
Hackers believed to be Russian discussed how to steal Hillary Clinton's emails from her private server and transfer them to Michael Flynn via an intermediary, The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday.
...
Roger Stone, a longtime Trump adviser, is also being scrutinized over his conversations with a hacker linked to Russian military intelligence, Guccifer 2.0. Stone exchanged private messages with the self-described hacker in August, and his tweets in the days after raised questions about whether he knew in advance that emails from Clinton's campaign chairman, John Podesta, would be imminently published by WikiLeaks.
...
Russian officials bragged about their close relationship to Flynn last year, according to intercepted communications described to CNN, and boasted that they could use him to influence Trump. The way the Russians were talking about Flynn "was a five-alarm fire from early on," a former Obama administration official said.
Evidence. Of. Collusion.
posted by OnceUponATime at 1:37 PM on June 30, 2017 [52 favorites]


I thought $40,000 was as low as you could go but there is some guy named Liddle (Assistant to the President for strategic Initiatives) makes $30,000. Is he the guy that brings in the Diet Coke when Donnie Two Scoops pushes the red button?

That would Chris Liddle, former CFO of Microsoft, and General Motors. He is from New Zealand - which is why his name rang a bell for me. I was embarrassed when I heard he was working for Trump.
posted by vac2003 at 1:56 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


@ariberman: 22 states now won't hand over voter info to Kobach: CA, CT, IN, KY, MA, MN, NC, NM, ND, NV, NY, OH, OK, PA, RI, SD, TN, UT, VA, VT, WA, WI
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:56 PM on June 30, 2017 [57 favorites]


Collusion is established, nobody is going to question it happened anymore, but it just doesn't matter. Which is incredible.

Count your votes, what no majority? Well get to work gerrymandering for your side, maybe fix the score by 2022?

Absolutely nothing is going to touch the fucker short of democrat wins in 2018 and 2020, which will be heavily resisted and will be a minor miracle of people power over coming dirty tricks if they happen.


This is what I was yelling about towards the end of the last thread. There is something missing from each of these statements and that is

We can build political support for impeachment.

There are conditions that could happen that could lead to impeachment, specifically:
- angry crowds yelling at Republican congresspeople about Trump
- poll numbers indicating close to 70% support for impeachment and less than 40% opposed

That is the condition that could make Republicans shift with the wind. It might not. But it's the only condition that could.

The way we get there is to convince people to support impeachment. The way we convince people is to talk about impeachment in public over and over again. Get it on TV as a subject of discussion, get it into the national consciousness, talk about it as if it's a thing that could possibly happen.

It's true that Mueller's investigation is not going to impeach Trump, because that was never in Mueller's power to begin with. What's required for impeachment is political will. Nothing more and nothing less.

The investigation and all the evidence of collusion is still important - primarily because we deserve to know. But more importantly it can be useful to convince people, and to lay out an argument that Republicans could potentially adopt as a reason to oppose Trump.

I hate to say "people should do what I think is important" but I think we need to remember that the investigation, in particular, is the one thing we bystanders have no influence over. And the political wave is something that only we can create. The FBI can't make political waves - they're doing as much as they can by leaking all these juicy tidbits. We can't touch the investigation, but we can do politics. The FBI has their job - we have ours.

If we keep talking about impeachment like it's politically impossible, then that's what it will be. If we talk about it like it is possible, then it's possible the field will shift.

Also in the last thread, petebest offered a first draft of reasons the president should be impeached, so here is my draft, in no particular order

- He's being bribed through his properties and refuses to stop
- He asked Russia to interfere in the election to help him
- Russia did in fact help him, there is evidence of this
- He's obstructed justice by firing and trying to intimidate the head of the FBI who was investigating Russian activity
- He's leaked intelligence to Russian agents
- He has no understanding of the Constitution and is ridiculously unqualified to lead
- He is destroying our power on the world stage - our diplomatic power, military power, and covert intelligence power - making him detrimental to our national security
- He lies constantly and we cannot trust him in any way for anything
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 1:57 PM on June 30, 2017 [92 favorites]


1) Collusion with a hostile foreign power to influence federal elections
2) Admitted extortionist (as of today, so yay)
3) Clear pattern of harassment and abuse
4) Bribery (emoluments), corruption (nepotism), and (hosing kids-with-cancer-charity) fraud.

Since we're not talking about legal requirements (there are none), and since these are all clear and documented "misdemeanors" relating to the Office of the President . . let's crank up the Impeachment Machine. Any objections?

This will take cycles away from the individual fights, yes. We can do it all.

Edit: High-five Rainbo Vagrant
posted by petebest at 1:59 PM on June 30, 2017 [34 favorites]


Not to abuse the edit function, I want to add that talking like this will not pay off until we get to some tipping point - until we get some really substantive smoking-gun evidence, or until we hit 70% support, or something like that. So it will probably feel pointless and absurd until we get there. But if we ever get that smoking gun, we will need this groundwork in place in order to use it.

The investigation is the tip of the spear, but we have to drive it in.

(high five right back)
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:03 PM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Okay, Rainbo Vagrant, here's the version I just shared on my Facebook Page and in my Indivisible Group...
Since Trump took office I have believed that impeachment was possible (on the grounds that he is flagrantly violating the emoluments clause) and would be good for the country.

But this new evidence of collusion, published by the Wall Street Journal, has moved me into the camp of people who believe it is not only possible and good but actually NECESSARY for national security.

Here is a draft list of charges:

- He's is violating the emoluments clause, and as a result is receiving bribes from foreign powers.

- There is evidence that his campaign colluded with Russia to spread false propaganda, hack into state elections databases, and sabotage his political opponents by stealing and publishing their private communications.

- He's obstructed justice by firing and trying to intimidate the head of the FBI who was investigating Russian activity

- He is undermining our national security by leaking intelligence to Russian agents, refusing to take responsibility for military engagements, and neglecting diplomacy

- He has no understanding of the Constitution and is ridiculously unqualified to lead

- He lies constantly and undermines trust in the US government
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:13 PM on June 30, 2017 [45 favorites]


The Business Insider story by Natasha Bertrand citing WSJ's reporting is nice because it is unpaywalled and provides more context... And doesn't bury the lede.

Russian hackers reportedly discussed how to steal Clinton's emails and transfer them to Michael Flynn


That should have been the headline of the WSJ article.
posted by diogenes at 2:17 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Here is a draft list of charges:

Great - let's get it in the format used to present it to the House and get this done.
posted by petebest at 2:21 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Thank you so much for posting that, OnceUponATime. (i have so many feelings about this)

I don't havfe much of a presence on facebook but I just posted something like that too.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 2:30 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


19 states so far, and it's not even July 4th yet. The Kobach commission is dead in the water.

You can add PA to that list. We will not participate in this systematic effort to suppress the vote.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:36 PM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


Content Warning: The Following is Satire and is Not Intended to Accurately Represent the Good People of The South. Southern Discretion is Advised.

GA SoS KEMP: Caw'm geet mir brr voduh imp *spit* ain'h glibp haerrr anx. VO' fawt! Mmm hmmm.
*squeaky fart*
*chuckle*

(Translation: Georgia will be emailing its complete voter database to the Kobach fraud factory. Reportedly over a 14.4 modem, repeatedly, and without initial success.)
posted by petebest at 2:42 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


My comment in the last thread was really discouraged but the responses by the states to the voter fraud letter is really, really encouraging.
posted by Brainy at 2:43 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


With the addition of MS, there are now, it seems 23 states saying they wont fully comply with the kobackwards commissions data request. (Ari Berman has been posting periodic updates and had 22 states an hour ago and added Mississippi about 20 minutes after that).

while I was writing this he tweeted again updating his full count to 23.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:51 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


perhaps worth noting that included in the 23 are the home states of both the commissions vice-chairmen, IN and KS.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:52 PM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


Meanwhile, New Hampshire's Secretary of State (who is, as I said earlier, on the damn commission), will gladly hand over our records. But he might... charge a fee. Way to take a stand, pal.
posted by schoolgirl report at 2:56 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


I don't want to get too far down this hopeful path without some critical thought about what providing/not providing the voter registration info means. The link above about NH SoS Gardner saying he will provide publicly available info to the administration is describing an action that is consistent with what some of the 23 "wont provide" folks are being credited with. I spent too much of today reading the various statements probably but for example the Indiana SoS's statement says she/the state wont be complying with the request for SSNs birthdates, party affiliation or voting history, but that state law only allows her to share names, address, and congressional district.

Despite having posted several updates with the counts of states saying they wont be complying, I think this is going to be substantially more complicated and impossible to distill into a single number representing how many states are resisting or facilitating this charade.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 3:03 PM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


This is doubly sucking for me because in addition to not being senator, Jason Kander is no longer our secretary of state.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:13 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump to the President of South Korea earlier today:
The United States has trade deficits with many, many countries, and we cannot allow that to continue ... with South Korea right now, but we cannot allow that to continue. This is really a statement that I make about all trade: For many, many years the United States has suffered through massive trade deficits; that’s why we have $20 trillion in debt.
The President of the United States does not appear to know the difference between the national debt and a trade deficit. Happy Friday!
posted by zachlipton at 3:24 PM on June 30, 2017 [99 favorites]


A McClatchy investigation reveals that Trump ventured more aggressively into the former Soviet empire from 2005 to 2015 than has previously been known, even seeking to have his name atop a massive shimmering glass tower in Astana, the post-Soviet capital of Kazakhstan.
And Trump sought a trademark in Iran, a country he has sought to isolate as president, that would reserve use of his name among other things for real estate and hotels.
None of this is revealed in Trump’s financial disclosure statements. And since he hasn’t released his tax returns, these sorts of relationships are not apparent.
posted by adamvasco at 3:27 PM on June 30, 2017 [35 favorites]


The fact that this choade is named Kris Kobach and he's from Kansas is what pushes me towards the "we're in a simulation and the writers are fucking with us" camp.
posted by emjaybee at 3:31 PM on June 30, 2017 [38 favorites]


Republicans keep saying "Run government like a business".

If Tim Cook tweeted mean things about Marissa Mayer's face and refused to apologize or stand down, he'd be fired.


Was it in the Baffler, the article that outlined how more and more, typical US business practices are precisely aligned with the sort of amoral, fascistic intent that the current administration is making its own? The point being: running businesses all too often resembles exactly the kind of craven, bullying shenanigans that we're now seeing in government. So, in a perverse kind of way, they're not wrong when they repeat that mantra...
posted by progosk at 3:32 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


You literally couldn't make this stuff up.

Rachel Kurzius, DCist; Russian-Funded News Station Replaces Bluegrass on 105.5 FM
Those who've become accustomed to hearing bluegrass music when they turn the dial to 105.5 FM are in for a surprise—the bandwidth now broadcasts Sputnik, a “global wire, radio and digital news service" funded by the Russian government.

"It's radio that brings you the views that you don't get from other stations," says Mindia Gavasheli, the editor in chief of Sputnik U.S.

Indeed, Sputnik is surely the only media outlet in D.C. where a former Breitbart investigative reporter shares an office with a Green Party candidate for city council. Launched in 2014, it operates out of an office on K Street NW by Farragut North.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:34 PM on June 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


I can't wait until Trumpmenbashi (dir George Clooney) premieres in 2030 !!! [self. fake]
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:35 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Vox: New poll shows health care bill could crush GOP Senators
The poll numbers for Senate Republican candidates take an approximately 30-point hit when voters learn they’re supporting their party’s bill to repeal and replace Obamacare, according to a poll set to be released on Friday. The poll found that, in a vacuum, voters in 10 battleground states are split almost evenly about Republican senate candidates — with 21 percent of voters viewing them favorably and 20 percent viewing them unfavorably. [...]

The numbers are even more dramatic when the polling is mixed in with attacks on the GOP health bill. “After hearing criticisms of the Republican plan, voters in these Senate battlegrounds went from leaning toward voting the Democrat in 2018 by a healthy 48-38 margin, to leaning toward the Democrat by an even more robust 56-35 margin — an 11-point jump,” the poll stated.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:54 PM on June 30, 2017 [70 favorites]


The Hill GOP bill would ease enforcement of political activity by churches
House Republicans added a provision to a spending bill that would bar funds for the IRS to enforce the law prohibiting churches and other nonprofits from endorsing political candidates.

The House Appropriations subcommittee on Financial Services and General Government approved the spending measure, which funds the Treasury Department, Judiciary and other agencies, on Thursday.

"None of the funds made available by this Act may be used by the Internal Revenue Service to make a determination that a church, an integrated auxiliary of a church, or a convention or association of churches is not exempt from taxation for participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office unless," the provision reads.
It always strikes me as odd that the most immoral party is the one trying to jam religion into politics. I mean I know very well that white evangelicals is one of the strongest parts of the Republican coalition, yet it still seems strange. You think DJT or Steve Mnuchin gives a shit about what churches do?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


Raw Story: Busy Putin will ‘try’ to make time for Trump: Kremlin
The Kremlin has underlined that the planned meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump, will have to hinge on Putin’s busy schedule.[...]According to Yuri Ushakov, a senior aide of Putin’s and a former Russian ambassador to the U.S., as far as scheduling goes, Putin’s concrete commitments at the G20 take priority.

“We will give the Americans the schedule of our president’s trip to Hamburg, we will tell them about the meetings which we have agreed already and we will try to pencil into this complicated enough schedule, a very important and needed meeting,” Ushakov told state news agency Itar-Tass on Friday.[my bold]

We'll try to pencil him in...priceless! I'm sure DJT loves being on the receiving end of a domination move. Speaking of which, I hope their first handshake is filmed-- it should be an interesting moment.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:09 PM on June 30, 2017 [71 favorites]


"House Republicans added a provision to a spending bill that would bar funds for the IRS to enforce the law prohibiting churches and other nonprofits from endorsing political candidates."

I'm a bit "eh" on this one because those provisions haven't been taken seriously in years. I can think of two local situations just in my county in the last five years that were in CLEAR contravention of very SIMPLE parts of the law (not even the more borderline stuff where a preacher's hellfire sermon about some candidate or issue is likely protected by free speech, but clear use of church funds and facilities to support particular candidates and campaigns). It happens everywhere, all the time, and the IRS basically doesn't do anything about it -- partly because they have other priorities, partly because it's a really toxic area for them to act.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:13 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Busy Putin will ‘try’ to make time for Trump: Kremlin

Trump is not nearly as good at dominance games as he thinks he is, but he's drawn to them like a moth to halogen porch light. This will not end well.
posted by msalt at 4:15 PM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


Mediaite, JOE BILELLO: President Trump Deserves Credit For Taking On Bullies Like Mika Brzezinski
In case people aren’t aware by now, when Donald Trump is attacked, he fights back, even when he probably shouldn’t.

Whether it’s a war hero like John McCain, the parents of a war hero like Humayun Khan, or just some morning talk show hosts, Mr. Trump feels the need to retaliate for criticism against him because the criticism against him is almost never benign.

And whether he is right or wrong, lets not pretend that he is always the aggressor. In fact, President Trump may deserve some credit for virtually never attacking anyone without provocation. Dare I say, Donald Trump may be the most civil politician in history. Ok, that’s a stretch. But as ruthless and vulgar as his attacks may be, he is almost always the counter-puncher.[...]

Republicans have been the victims of bullying for years. They are bullied by the press. They are bullied by the entertainment industry. They are bullied by other politicians. And they have always taken the high road. They have always backed down.

But in Trump, for the first time in history, Republicans may have an individual who has decided to refuse to back down. He has refused to turn the other cheek. The press is the bully and Donald Trump is punching them straight in the nose.
I don't know who Bilello is but I read this entire op ed with my jaw on the floor. At first I thought it was tongue in cheek satire but the further I read the more I was convinced this guy is serious.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:17 PM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


For those arguing that the Mika/Joe twitter battle is a trivial distraction:

Harvard law professor: If the White House threatened 'Morning Joe' hosts with a National Enquirer story, it's a crime (by Allan Smith at Business Insider)
posted by msalt at 4:23 PM on June 30, 2017 [67 favorites]


Raw Story: Busy Putin will ‘try’ to make time for Trump: Kremlin

"I had my personal chef make this dish special for you, Donald. I believe in America, you call it 'meatloaf'."
posted by jason_steakums at 4:24 PM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


Hey, Donnie Two Scoops....I got bad news for you. The chef ran out of ice cream and chocolate cake before he got yours dished up. Excuse me while I go ahead and tuck in before the ice cream melts. MMMMMM goood.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:27 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


That Bilelo guy is serious and not worth our time.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:35 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


I mean the core of this whole thing is basically:

Mika: LOL UR A SMALLDICK
Donald: LOL UR PLASTIC SURGERY FACE
Mika: NO UR A SMALLDICK

I see some buffoons having a clownish shitfight, ain't no one looks good, but there's just no license for the hyperbolic puling. Considering all parties seem to be operating at this schoolyard level, Mika started this one! And now we have days of this garbage rather than anything of substance.

Journalism is increasingly a goddamn human centipede ouroboros - how much of the news is just about ... other news, these days? Mika got insulted! So-and-so moved from X channel/paper to Y channel/paper! Trump is depriving the White House Press Corps of their precious time in front of the camera! This other news is fake!

I think this is not solely or even primarily due to Trump, but it's something he pushes. Reality TV is his domain.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:47 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


Considering all parties seem to be operating at this schoolyard level, Mika started this one!

What are you talking about? Also, is "she was asking for it!" really where we're at when a man starts abusing a woman on twitter?
posted by Justinian at 4:50 PM on June 30, 2017 [25 favorites]


I mean, there is the part where the White House tried to blackmail two media critics of the President into supporting him again
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:51 PM on June 30, 2017 [50 favorites]


What are you talking about?

The show Trump got pissed at had Mika making the very prevalent small hands -> small dick joke.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 4:52 PM on June 30, 2017


*muzzles self before anger eruption*
posted by Justinian at 4:54 PM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


>"House Republicans added a provision to a spending bill that would bar funds for the IRS to enforce the law prohibiting churches and other nonprofits from endorsing political candidates."

>I'm a bit "eh" on this one because those provisions haven't been taken seriously in years.


The problem is the slippery slope of ignoring these provisions. Pretty soon, you have the Koch brothers and others making millions of dollars of tax deductible donations to churches and using them as tax deductible political superPACs.
posted by JackFlash at 5:03 PM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


Considering all parties seem to be operating at this schoolyard level, Mika started this one!

Last I looked, all signs pointed to coverage of Trump's fake Time covers as the instigation of this most recent round. It's small potatoes compared to treason, incompetence, and policy horrors, but it's something worth a segment at least.

Aside from that I have to agree with Justinian re: victim blaming and RW,LD on that petty little thing about blackmail.

You don't have to ignore the other horrors and you don't have to love Scarborough or Brzezinski to realize this is some serious shit.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:04 PM on June 30, 2017 [22 favorites]



I mean the core of this whole thing is basically:

Mika: LOL UR A SMALLDICK
Donald: LOL UR PLASTIC SURGERY FACE
Mika: NO UR A SMALLDICK


He sent a tabloid to harass her children.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:05 PM on June 30, 2017 [58 favorites]


I think Scarborough and Brzezinski have far from clean hands here, that their attempts to paint this as a sudden change in Trump's behavior so they don't have to admit they were wrong before is absurd, and that their failure to speak up sooner and release the text messages pose serious concerns about their credibility.

But with all that said, one of them is the co-host of a TV show watched on the average day by ~0.3% of the country, and the other one is President of the United States who commands an arsenal of nuclear weapons. And his attacks fit perfectly into a pattern of how he's treated everyone, especially every woman, who has ever said no to him, a pattern that some people went to pretty great lengths to warn us about during the election. It doesn't matter what Brzezinski said; blackmail and public attacks are not an appropriate way for a grown-ass adult to respond.

There's real news and real journalism going on out there. Don't belittle the whole concept because of this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:06 PM on June 30, 2017 [71 favorites]


A man once said that alcohol brings out the asshole in everybody. I used to say the same wa true of politics, but now I belive it about the internet. Me included.
posted by jonmc at 5:09 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


There was a great episode of The West Wing called A Proportional Response, where President Bartlet had to temper his emotions to authorize a reaction that was appropriate to the provocation.

President Obama was called a Kenyan Muslim when he wasn't, and was subjected to a disgusting array of racial slurs throughout his presidency. He was hung and burned in effigy. He kept his cool under so much provocation that it was a joke to imagine him losing his temper.

President Trump had a fake Time magazine cover in one of his country clubs, and when Mika Brzezinski made fun of him he flew off the handle and said horrible things about her. One of these things is not like the other.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:15 PM on June 30, 2017 [89 favorites]


The President of the United States, the Leader of the Greatest Economic, Military and Cultural Power in the History of Creation is always, always punching down.

Comes with the job, man. You have options if you don't like it.
posted by notyou at 5:23 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


To be fair The White House staff tried to explain to Trump how the office is supposed to have a quiet dignity about it but Trump didn't understand the word "quiet" or "dignity".
posted by Talez at 5:27 PM on June 30, 2017 [8 favorites]


i really don't give a fuck about joe and mika. as far as i can see, and someone pointed this out in last thread, those fuckers and the networks have basically put his deranged behavior in front of the country for 2 years, effectively normalizing it. and for years prior during his birther circus. the so-called 'liberal' media are a root cause of trump. fuck them all. with trump's itty bitty dick.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:30 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


An all-girl robotics team from Afghanistan has been denied entry to the US to compete in an international competition.
posted by Hypatia at 5:32 PM on June 30, 2017 [39 favorites]


I declare the era of the nation state as officially over. Presidents are now functional, as are kings, queens, priests, popes and pharaohs. Trump is Zaphod Beeblebrox stealing the Heart Of Gold.

Don't Panic.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:33 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think we should add Francis Buxton to the long list of movie villains that are on par with Trump.
posted by peeedro at 5:38 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


fuck them all. with trump's itty bitty dick

fuck them all. with trump's itty bitty (cis man, hetero) dick.

Because itty bitty trans gay lady dick is the best dick.
posted by Annika Cicada at 5:38 PM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]


The motherfucking election commission! Motherfucking voter fraud! And of course these people don't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut about vote tampering, esp. in state/local elections. I just read one of Jimmy Carter's memoirs where he was talking about coming up in politics, and how Georgia's elections were notoriously corrupt, and how he lost, and he lost for nakedly, obviously crooked reasons, and he took that shit up and fought it up to the state legislature, and I thought to myself: how many non-Jimmy Carter-ass motherfuckers are discouraged out of politics by similar kinds of chicanery? How the fuck can people with some degree of ethics not want to fix that shit? About then "lol America is racist as hell" kicked in but the election commission bullshit hits me in a particular way, it's of particular vexation to me when unethical people wrap themselves up in a smarmy blanket of Concerns when going about their nasty business, especially since disenfranchisement and election tampering are real problems that harm the democratic process.
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 5:39 PM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


An all-girl robotics team from Afghanistan has been denied entry to the US to compete in an international competition.

That is a perfect client for legal action, ACLU. GO!

I mean, how is that any different from someone having a connection with the US by being admitted to a college, which the Supreme Court explicitly said was enough of a connection to enjoin enforcement of this provision? Not only is this wrong, but it's good evidence of the Administration's bad faith which should help get the right decision in October when they hear this case.
posted by msalt at 5:47 PM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


Some links:

Stephen Fry: Happy Birthday, America. One Small Suggestion ..., in which it is argued we should have a monarchy.

Harold Pollack in Slate: Trumpcare Will Probably Kill Thousands Each Year: And it is neither alarmist nor uncivil to say so.

Denied: Afghanistan's All-Girl Robotics Team Can't Get Visas To The US. The author of curl (the unix command line tool) was denied boarding to the US, where he was going to attend the Mozilla allhands meeting, for no particular reason this week too.

Phillip Bump/WaPo: The White House had a coordinated message this month. Trump didn’t.. In which Trump's tweets are compared to the theme the White House is supposed to be emphasizing. During Infrastructure Week, he was off-message 80.6% of the time, while Tech Week set a record with this tweets not being about technology 100% of the time. In total, 12/163 of his weekday tweets during the themed weeks have been about the theme, and that includes two Twitter ads about infrastructure his staff placed.

CBS News: Science division of White House office left empty as last staffers depart
The science division of the White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) was unstaffed as of Friday as the three remaining employees departed this week, sources tell CBS News.

All three employees were holdovers from the Obama administration. The departures from the division -- one of four subdivisions within the OSTP -- highlights the different commitment to scientific research under Presidents Obama and Trump.
On her way out, Elle Celeste tweeted: "science division out. mic drop."

Roll Call: Health Care Ads Running This Recess. The DSCC is launching a six-figure digital ad buy over the holiday weekend, including ads about the health care bill geo and keyword targeted around 4th of July parades where key Republicans will be appearing.

Rucker-Parker/WaPo: Why some inside the White House see Trump’s media feud as ‘winning’
Sure, Trump’s health-care push stalled on Capitol Hill, his “energy week” went largely unnoticed and the president faced almost universal condemnation for an unpresidential attack on MSNBC anchor Mika Brzezinski.

But to many inside the White House, as well as outside allies, what looked like a public relations debacle amounted to an abundance of “winning” — a Trumpian catchphrase playfully repeated Friday by some West Wing officials, even as they were discomfited by the Brzezinski broadside.

A rather deep exchange between Trump and Buzz Aldrin at the signing of the Executive Order on the National Space Council today...🚀:
(The order is signed.)

COLONEL ALDRIN: Infinity and beyond. (Laughter.)

THE PRESIDENT: This is infinity here. It could be infinity. We don’t really don’t know. But it could be. It has to be something -- but it could be infinity, right?

Okay. (Applause.)

END
I hope everyone had a great Energy Week!
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on June 30, 2017 [55 favorites]




Also, from eight thread years ago

Ivanka* is also listed at $0 (listed as First Daughter and Advisor) as well as someone named Reed Cordish, Assistant to the President for Intergovernmental and Technology Initiatives

He's married to a college friend of Ivanka Trump.
posted by Ruki at 5:53 PM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


That is a perfect client for legal action, ACLU. GO! I mean, how is that any different from someone having a connection with the US by being admitted to a college, which the Supreme Court explicitly said was enough of a connection to enjoin enforcement of this provision?

Afghanistan isn't one of the travel ban countries, so the court order isn't relevant here. This sounds like a straight-up visitor visa denial, which, as I understand it, is almost impossible to challenge in court. Very few B-1/B-2 visas get issued out of Afghanistan, because to get one, they presume you're going to overstay and live in the US, and it's up to you to convince them that you really will come back to Afghanistan. For most people, that's a hard sell.

They should get visas and get to go to the robotics competition, but this isn't new and is quite typical.
posted by zachlipton at 5:57 PM on June 30, 2017 [9 favorites]


Oregon Republicans are deputising Oathkeepers, if you were wondering when they would officially become part of the coup.
posted by Artw at 6:07 PM on June 30, 2017 [49 favorites]


Re: that link to Rep Raskin's tweet - he appears to have a plan in mind:

Rep. Jamie Raskin (Maryland) introduced a bill that would create an “oversight” commission that could declare the president incapacitated, leading to his removal from office under the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/880800335710887936

It has no chance of advancing, unfortunately, but I agree that it's a swell idea.
posted by mosk at 6:07 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


President Trump had a fake Time magazine cover in one of his country clubs,

Per @Fahrenthold and the WaPo, it was at least eight of his clubs. (The posters seem to be on their way down the memory hole now.)

Not that it matters. Nothing matters, anymore.
posted by Guy Smiley at 6:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oregon Republicans are deputising Oathkeepers

No word on whether brown shirts will be part of the approved uniform.
posted by darkstar at 6:22 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


For a second there I had Oath Keepers and Promise Keepers confused and now I'm wondering what the Venn of those two groups looks like.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:28 PM on June 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


Oregon Republicans are deputising Oathkeepers

That's not accurate, and it's not said anywhere in the linked article.

Republicans are not in charge of anything in Multnomah County, so they have no power to deputise anyone. This is the crackpot leader of a tiny minority party: as of March 2016, Republicans constitute 13.8% of Multnomah County voters.

What the article says is that Republicans (or at least their leader, Mr. Buchal) will accept the volunteer offer of Oathkeepers and 3%ers to provide security at their rallies, much as the Altamont rock festival accepted the volunteer services of Hell's Angels. (True, but my analogy, not his)
posted by msalt at 6:32 PM on June 30, 2017 [40 favorites]


I'm wondering what the Venn of those two groups looks like.

Add in a circle for Crypt Keepers and you get the scariest intersection
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:34 PM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Oh my god, that Oathkeepers story is freaking me out.

From the Wikipedia article on the history of the S.S. in Germany...

"It began with a small guard unit known as the Saal-Schutz (Hall-Protection) made up of NSDAP volunteers to provide security for party meetings in Munich."

From Timothy Snyder's book "On Tyranny":

Chapter 6: Be wary of paramilitaries
When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching with torches and pictures of a leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the end has come.
...
People and parties who wish to undermine the rule of law create and fund violent organizations that involve themselves in politics. Such groups can take the form of the paramilitary wing of a political party, the personal bodyguard of a particular politician -- or apparently spontaneous citizens' initiatives, which usually turn out to have been organized by a party or its leader.
...
These first challenge the police and the military, then penetrate the police and the military, and then finally transform the police and the military."
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:36 PM on June 30, 2017 [49 favorites]


Listen to msalt. This is the REPUBLICAN PARTY in MULTNOMAH COUNTY. While this is weird and dismaying, the ongoing collusion between Three Percent Brain Activity et al and rural sheriffs is way more disturbing in a politics way. Please trust us as actual people who live here.

I am a little concerned that this will escalate tensions in town more. Gibson and the hell shaking preachers are apparently holding another dumb-ass rally today.
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 6:43 PM on June 30, 2017 [21 favorites]


If anything is important it's hugely important, I'd have thought - smoking gun, holed under the waterline important.

So probably worth a news cycle.
posted by Artw at 6:55 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm disappointed at the lack of Dunning-Krueger Sundae Carter Page in that list but I wonder, did Smith think Page was too dumb?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:57 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


If the distraction theory is true then Trump will have to get up in the morning and tell Wolf Blitzer to go fuck a dog or something.
posted by Artw at 7:03 PM on June 30, 2017 [20 favorites]


From the CBS article about the White House's Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) having no remaining employees:

Under Mr. Obama, the science division was staffed with nine employees who led the charge on policy issues such as STEM education, biotechnology and crisis response.

Every voter has watched a movie where the scientist rushes into the Oval Office to warn the President about a catastrophe. Now there are no scientists to do that, because the President is Shitty. This should be a Huge Fucking Story, no?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:04 PM on June 30, 2017 [48 favorites]


Harvard law professor: If the White House threatened 'Morning Joe' hosts with a National Enquirer story, it's a crime

IF? He admitted it!

Trump's response to the allegation on Friday morning appeared to confirm that such conversations took place.

"Watched low rated @Morning_Joe for first time in long time," Trump tweeted. "FAKE NEWS. He called me to stop a National Enquirer article. I said no! Bad show."


It's in your own article, Allan Smith at Business Insider! Howabout "Trump apparrently concedes extortion"? "Did Trump Extort an Apology From Joe and Mika? Trump says Yes".

"He called me to stop a National Enquirer article . . I said I had nothing to do with it"
"He called me to stop a National Enquirer article . . I said, Whattaya mean"
"He called me to stop a National Enquirer article . . I said, of course I'll help!"
"He called me to stop a National Enquirer article . . I said, You Suck"

- all fine. "I said 'no'" . . . . No, that's admission. You knew about it. YOU JUST ADMITTED IT. Moran!
posted by petebest at 7:06 PM on June 30, 2017 [15 favorites]


How do the mods feel about pasting entire WSJ articles in here? If we turn them into hyperlinks to the Dramatic Chipmunk video, they are parody fair use
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:07 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


Pasting WSJ headlines into Google and clicking the link often gets you around the paywall, but pasting the headline into Twitter search and clicking a link from there is quite reliable.
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on June 30, 2017 [11 favorites]


There's a lot of speculation that Trump's mental health is already poor and perhaps deteriorating. His father had Alzheimer's. Some people wonder if Trump is in the early stages, as the oldest person to be elected president. Don't count on the media to alert us to any relevant parallels.
posted by Brian B. at 7:09 PM on June 30, 2017 [7 favorites]


With the addition of MS, there are now, it seems 23 states saying they wont fully comply ...
perhaps worth noting that included in the 23 are the home states of both the commissions vice-chairmen, IN and KS


Didn't I JUST hear Kobach on NPR implying that states who wouldn't comply must have something to hide?
posted by ctmf at 7:13 PM on June 30, 2017


Guys, I don't want to rain on this follow-up bomb, but it's not explicitly saying they're involved. In fact, it seems rather confused as to why they are mentioned.

"Mr. Smith’s purpose in listing the officials isn’t clear. There is no indication in the document that he sought or received any coordination from the campaign officials or the campaign in general."
posted by greermahoney at 7:17 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]




Hey, who cries at weddings, hah? Yeah? Oh yeah me too that's why you'll love these pics from Goldman Sachs fraudster forclosure monster Treasury Fall G- Secretary Steven Mnuchin!

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, 54, married his 36-year-old fiancée Louise Linton on Saturday in front of a stunning list of Washington insiders and Wall Street elite.!

It is Mnuchin's third marriage and Linton's second. Mnuchin, a former Goldman Sachs executive, met Linton, a Scottish actress, at a wedding in 2013, and the two got engaged in 2015.
!

See who was there in these photos from the star-studded event:!!

And star-studded it was, red carpet fans! Everybody turned out to light the night, from HUD Secretary Ben Carson (!) To amateur bush-talker Sean Spicer (!!) to hunky Secretary of Veterans Affairs, David Shulkin!! There was also a serial sex predator but let's get to the important things - The LOOKS!

OMG! The first lady wore a Gilles Mendel silk chiffon gown with Manolo Blahnik pumps.!!

Did you want more fireworks?! Well, KA-POW!!
Vice President Mike Pence and his wife, Karen, waved from a limo en route to the ceremony.!
Yes, that's a REAL limo, ladies, but don't wave at Vice President Pence too much, he's already married! And it makes him quite uncomfortable.

Pence then officiated the wedding.!! OMG Dreams do come true, Steven! Third time's the charm, and it couldn't happen to a . . . guy.

Linton reportedly wore a pile of jewelry, including a tiara, a diamond necklace, pearl drop earrings, multiple diamond rings, diamond bracelets, and, of course, her giant, oval diamond engagement ring.!!

You guys, they are SO goddamned rich, it's *snf* Oh! I said I wasn't going to curse but *snf*

Also reportedly in attendance: national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue, Environmental Protection Agency administrator Scott Pruitt, Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, former Mayor Rudy Giuliani of New York, and Jim Donovan, a Goldman Sachs banker who withdrew his name from consideration as Mnuchin's deputy secretary.!!!

Wow, you guys it's like the guest list was dreamed up by the White House themselves! *sigh*. Now that's autocratic magic™!!
posted by petebest at 7:42 PM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]




I was involved in the events that reporter Shane Harris described, and I was an unnamed source for the initial story. What’s more, I was named in, and provided the documents to Harris that formed the basis of, this evening’s follow-up story, which reported that “A longtime Republican activist who led an operation hoping to obtain Hillary Clinton emails from hackers listed senior members of the Trump campaign, including some who now serve as top aides in the White House, in a recruitment document for his effort”

If "But her emails" turns out to the torpedo that finally sinks the Bismark, I shall officially almost start to prepare to consider forgiving 2016.

(It won't, but at least my irony meter appears to be EMP hardened by now)
posted by Devonian at 8:05 PM on June 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


BoooomShakalaka! It's Cake o'clock!
posted by petebest at 8:08 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump's Enquirer tweet can plausibly be read as a denial of extortion; Scarborough claimed Trump or associates threatened Scarborough with the story. Trump is denying that piece (no collusion with the Enquirer in advance) and suggesting Scarborough called Trump to ask him to intervene with the Enquirer to scotch the story.

You could read it that way if you were inclined to be charitable to Trump, which I know.
posted by notyou at 8:09 PM on June 30, 2017


In short:

US intelligence: Russian officials say they were trying to get hacked emails to Flynn and the Trump campaign through an intermediary
People in contact with Smith: This guy said he was talking to people who were probably Russian operatives abut getting hacked emails, he was completely indifferent to warnings that he's talking to Russian intelligence, and at least professed to multiple people to be in contact with the campaign about this
Smith: I was talking to people I thought were affiliated with the Russian government about obtaining hacked emails

What more do you need?
posted by zachlipton at 8:09 PM on June 30, 2017 [37 favorites]


Is that rhetorical? I assume so. Nothing more is needed for us to make a personal judgment. But if I were on a jury I'd want to see some evidence of actual coordination between Smith and Trump officials, not just a third party talking about trying to arrange such a thing.
posted by Justinian at 8:14 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


As this whole thing gets more tangled, my growing concern is that Omnigate is so complex as to be unable to be articulated to the public. In order to make a case for impeachment, it has to be pretty clear what happened. The amount of fucked up relationships has taken hundreds of articles' worth of reporting by now to describe.
posted by Room 101 at 8:15 PM on June 30, 2017 [10 favorites]


(to be clear, Smith's testimony would be such evidence... sadly he's dead.)
posted by Justinian at 8:15 PM on June 30, 2017


So... A few people IRL have implied Smith was killed ala KGB style. Is this realistic? Could he really have been killed?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:19 PM on June 30, 2017


If a democratic operative who was reportedly working as a go-between of the Clinton campaign and a foreign adversary died 10 days after giving evidence to the press of such a thing I'm sure the right wing would totally accept it as a coincidence.
posted by Justinian at 8:19 PM on June 30, 2017 [63 favorites]


Hn: Could? Sure. Anything could be true. But there's no evidence whatsoever of such a thing and, therefore, we should conclude he was just an old guy who died inconveniently.
posted by Justinian at 8:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


Well, not sure if it's Trump-shattering, but it's a kaboom for sure.

If the "tick tick" has been retired then can we replace the boom with the Law and Order sound effect? Because really, at this point it feels more like we're watching a police procedural unfold from the POV of the investigators and prosecutors and I'd like to have some optimism that justice will prevail, eventually.
posted by peeedro at 8:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm curious if we can get any kind of explanation for why Smith talked to the WSJ. I realize we can't ask him, but perhaps the reporters he talked to have some idea about his motives? The tone of the article doesn't imply it's a dying confession so much as him continuing to not think there's anything wrong with chatting with Russian intelligence in an effort to influence an election, but there are some questions about his motives here.
posted by zachlipton at 8:21 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


But if I were on a jury I'd want to see some evidence of actual coordination between Smith and Trump officials, not just a third party talking about trying to arrange such a thing.

I mean, there was that time Trump stood up on stage and encouraged Russian officials to do basically the exact thing we're talking about here.

I do find the theory that Smith was just surrounded by randoms online trying to rip him off to be highly compelling, since it's the stupidest possible explanation and that's really been the right way to go for anything that happened in 2016.
posted by zachlipton at 8:24 PM on June 30, 2017 [13 favorites]


So... A few people IRL have implied Smith was killed ala KGB style. Is this realistic? Could he really have been killed?

He was 81, so natural causes are hard to rule out.

I'm curious if we can get any kind of explanation for why Smith talked to the WSJ.

Just spitballing here, but perhaps he knew he was soon to die and his conscience troubled him, and/or he was pissed off at Bannon or Trump or somebody so FUCK HIM, nothing to lose.
posted by msalt at 8:28 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


If the "tick tick" has been retired then can we replace the boom with the Law and Order sound effect?
EXT. CITY STREET – DAY

*Picks up trash can*
"Yeah, I saw him. Fat fella, orange rat's nest for hair and a bad tan."
*Dumps trash in garbage truck*
"Talking to some Russki, really eager-like. Name was Kissy-yak, or something like that."
*Puts down trash can, climbs into truck*
"Look, I got 6 more blocks until lunch break, I gotta go."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:28 PM on June 30, 2017 [49 favorites]


Politico says Tillerson argued with a second White House aide
Secretary of State Rex Tillerson argued with senior White House aide Stephen Miller over immigration issues last week in a second recent clash with the White House.

Miller pushed Tillerson and the State Department to be tougher on immigration and make changes to the programs they control, according to four people familiar with the conversation in the West Wing. John Kelly, the head of the Department of Homeland Security, was also present.

Two of these people described the conversation as tense, though there wasn't the “yelling” that Tillerson reserved for Johnny DeStefano, the head of presidential personnel, in a different argument at the White House the same day, according to one of these people.

Tillerson made it “quite clear” to Miller that he wanted autonomy over his department, one of these people said.
...
Tillerson has grown increasingly frustrated at the White House and chafed at taking direction from younger Trump aides and not being able to implement State Department policies and offices like he would like, people familiar with his thinking say.
There's been an effort within the White House to try to move Consular Affairs from State to DHS. Right now, the State Department issues visas and plays a key part in the refugee admission process, while DHS decides who actually gets into the country at the border. Moving this would be a total mess, and would not be a good thing if you don't want Trump's DHS doing visa interviews.
posted by zachlipton at 8:37 PM on June 30, 2017 [17 favorites]




If the "tick tick" has been retired then can we replace the boom with the Law and Order sound effect?
Or maybe the CSI:Miami "YEEAAAAAHHH"

Could he really have been killed?
I realized that I have fallen into a Conspiracy Theory hole when it was pointed out that one of the first parodies of Trump was on Saturday Night Live and was done by Phil Hartman and I pondered whether the fantastic Phil may have been the first casualty of crossing The Donald.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:47 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


As this whole thing gets more tangled, my growing concern is that Omnigate is so complex as to be unable to be articulated to the public. In order to make a case for impeachment, it has to be pretty clear what happened.

On the other hand, felony obstruction of justice is very simple. Trump asks Comey to close Flynn investigation, Comey says no. Trump asks everyone else to leave the room and then asks Comey for loyalty. Trump fires Comey and then goes on TV and said he did it because he wanted to stop the Russia investigation. Trump tells THE RUSSIANS IN THE OVAL OFFICE that firing Comey has reduced pressure on him.

This is all really easy to understand, provable with publicly available evidence, and constitutes a felony worthy of impeachment. Regardless of the remainder of OMNIGATE.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:49 PM on June 30, 2017 [24 favorites]


The upside to Omnigate being such an unbounded mess of bubbling stew in the cauldron is that nobody can put a lid on it. Not that there's anyone out there who has a handle on that lid. Who do you think is at the controls?

Two of the four estates are still functioning: the law and the press. The legislature and the executive are railing against both, but it takes a long time to turn around the oil tanker of the courts. The press is a hot mess of its own accord, but we're still quoting the WSJ and the NYT and WaPo, so that's still up and running. And with hundreds of hacks trying to make their name, believe me that one of them will create a narrative clear enough for everyone to understand.

There's enough institutional inertia for the mechanisms of state to shut the madness down, especially because the nutters who've found themselves running half of it have no idea what they're doing.
posted by Devonian at 8:57 PM on June 30, 2017 [5 favorites]


Domestic violence/harassment---> mass shooting, this is my surprised face.

Everybody's worried about ISIS instead of our all-American homegrown misogynist assholes with guns.
posted by emjaybee at 8:58 PM on June 30, 2017 [60 favorites]


So... A few people IRL have implied Smith was killed ala KGB style. Is this realistic? Could he really have been killed?

FWIW, I get approximately 1/754 for the probability that a random US 75-84 year-old dies in a random 10-day stretch, based on Fig 2-3 of this census report. Death rates increase steeply with age, so it might be a bit higher for an 81 year-old. So dying of regular causes shortly after he talked is not outrageously unlikely... but unlikely.
posted by Coventry at 8:58 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


> So the doctor who shot up that hospital in the Bronx was a pussy-grabber. "Dr. Bello was arrested and charged with sex abuse and unlawful imprisonment after a 23-year-old woman told officers he had grabbed her crotch"

Fixed link: NYT: Doctor Opens Fire at Bronx Hospital, Killing Woman and Wounding 6 Others
posted by christopherious at 9:06 PM on June 30, 2017 [4 favorites]


The ADAPT members who held the sit-in at Sen. Gardner's office in Denver are still in custody more than 24 hours after their arrest.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on June 30, 2017 [14 favorites]


Domestic violence/harassment---> mass shooting

Or to make it more accurate, "Domestic violence/harassment---> punishment---> mass shooting". An anecdotal data point that any attempts to reduce the worst of misogyny may sometimes have tragic results. Elliot Rodger redux. Because Garbage Person males are damned dangerous.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:10 PM on June 30, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump’s Obama Obsession, Charles Blow, New York Times
Trump’s racial ideas were apparently a selling point among his supporters. Recent research has dispensed with the myth of “economic anxiety” and shone a light instead on the central importance race played in Trump’s march to the White House. As the researchers Sean McElwee and Jason McDaniel reported in The Nation in March:

“In short, our analysis indicates that Donald Trump successfully leveraged existing resentment towards African Americans in combination with emerging fears of increased racial diversity in America to reshape the presidential electorate, strongly attracting nativists towards Trump and pushing some more affluent and highly educated people with more cosmopolitan views to support Hillary Clinton. Racial identity and attitudes have further displaced class as the central battleground of American politics.”

Trump was sent to Washington to strip it of all traces of Obama, to treat the Obama legacy as a historical oddity. Trump’s entire campaign was about undoing what Obama had done.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:13 PM on June 30, 2017 [63 favorites]


FYI, Maine state government is now officially shut down. Senate has passed the budget three times tonight with only one nay, and it has passed in the House twice, but they can't get the House to the 2/3 needed for it to implement without Gov. LePage having to sign. LePage refuses to sign what was passed, pulled house leadership into an 11 pm meeting for 'compromise' in which the Dem House speaker learned that LePage actually doesn't have some alternate proposal ready but might have one Monday.

They're currently trying again in the House but not much is likely to change. House Speaker characterized her meeting with LePage as ending with him having "a tantrum" and said he abruptly left the meeting with "shut it down" as his parting words.

(All this via multiple Maine press folks on Twitter, but I can't link easily on mobile.)
posted by anastasiav at 9:14 PM on June 30, 2017 [19 favorites]


This is all really easy to understand, provable with publicly available evidence, and constitutes a felony worthy of impeachment.

It is. It's good, it might even clear legal requirements. But . . we don' need no steenkin legal requirements. Just this fully armed and operational US Constitution! Turn on the lights!

Time to start the drumbeat. Drum it in.

For some reason This popped into my head. As good as any!
posted by petebest at 9:32 PM on June 30, 2017 [2 favorites]


I continue to believe that the Republican Congress will not impeach Trump for any reason. Republicans on the Hill seem to believe either that supporting (or at least not actively opposing) Trump isn't politically risky or that losing the House in 2018 is a foregone conclusion so why not ram some agenda through to a President who will sign anything. It's not like losing a congressional election ends in homelessness; these people all have shiny futures in the private sector or as Governors or future Presidential candidates.
posted by xyzzy at 10:08 PM on June 30, 2017 [12 favorites]


Didn't I JUST hear Kobach on NPR implying that states who wouldn't comply must have something to hide?

From the Wichita Eagle, 2015: Wichita State mathematician says Kansas voting machines need audit:
Beth Clarkson, a certified quality engineer with a doctorate in statistics, said her calculations from the November election showed enough patterns to suspect that “some voting systems were being sabotaged.” [...] She filed a lawsuit against the Sedgwick County Election Office and Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach earlier this year, asking for access to the paper records that voting machines record each time someone votes.
(Unfortunately, she lost her court case in 2016.)
posted by donatella at 10:17 PM on June 30, 2017 [18 favorites]


They're currently trying again in the House but not much is likely to change. House Speaker characterized her meeting with LePage as ending with him having "a tantrum" and said he abruptly left the meeting with "shut it down" as his parting words.

How the fuck do people like LePage win elections.
posted by Talez at 10:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [6 favorites]


When women challenge Trump politically, he insults them physically.
Viscerally, Trump likely understands what the research shows: that focusing people’s attention on a woman’s appearance makes them value her abilities less. For a 2009 study in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, Nathan Heflick and Jamie Goldenberg asked one group of college students to write about Sarah Palin’s appearance and another to write about her “human essence.” Then both groups were asked a series of questions about her. The students who had written about her appearance rated her as less competent. In a different study, participants told to focus on Michelle Obama’s looks deemed her less competent, too.
posted by triggerfinger at 10:20 PM on June 30, 2017 [27 favorites]


Trump was sent to Washington to strip it of all traces of Obama, to treat the Obama legacy as a historical oddity. Trump’s entire campaign was about undoing what Obama had done.

And it'll go down in history as a shameful backlash to the progress in race relations represented by Obama's election, too. History won't be kind (assuming we're still around to write history when this is over.) It's stunning how Republicans either can't see that or don't care.

Trump would absolutely resurrect bin Laden if he could, just to spite Obama.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:28 PM on June 30, 2017 [26 favorites]




I've been following these threads religiously for months and who the heck is Smith? #cliffhanger
posted by notyou at 10:52 PM on June 30, 2017


Peter W. Smith first appeared on MetaFilter in the previous POTUS thread. Edit: Christ that sounded condescending.
posted by christopherious at 10:58 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sadly, he was already dead. (Damn it, too late for the edit window, but probably for the best.)
posted by christopherious at 11:06 PM on June 30, 2017 [3 favorites]


Looking at Peter Smith's history of anti-Clinton activities there's this about funding the Paula Jones scandal which led to Linda Tripp and Monica Lewinski. Among the attorneys? George Conway, now husband of Kellyanne.

It's almost like it's a... vast right wing conspiracy!
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 11:18 PM on June 30, 2017 [37 favorites]


Politico says Tillerson argued with a second White House aide

Looks like Tillerson is loosing it — and well so would anyone with a boss like his:
With Provocative Moves, U.S. Risks Unraveling Gains With China
and
Trump Takes More Aggressive Stance With U.S. Friends and Foes in Asia
Both NYTimes.
No matter what State does, Trump is only talking to his base. And BTW, that makes a lot of sense, if Trump wants to remain president he needs to have a firm hold on his base, regardless of everything else.
There's no reason to feel sorry for Tillerson, or to imagine he could run a foreign policy competently if Trump would let him. But Trump is literally forcing US allies to find new partnerships which run against the interests of the US.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and feel stupid for asking, but why is it the US (and the UK) have these huge trade deficits? Last I looked there were plenty western, high wage countries that don't run huge trade deficits, including places like Germany and Italy who both need a lot of steel and oil they don't produce locally.
posted by mumimor at 12:26 AM on July 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


I've been thinking about this for a while, and feel stupid for asking, but why is it the US (and the UK) have these huge trade deficits?

Because we import tons of stuff. I realize that's tautological so I'll try to expand. The US (and UK) are really rich countries. It's expensive to manufacture things here. It's much cheaper to make cars and clothes and TVs and phones and microchips and stuff elsewhere and then buy them from wherever makes them while we do other things in the USA. But keep in mind that, contrary to what Donald Trump would tell you, a trade deficit is not necessarily a bad thing. Consider; do you think Trump is right about literally anything else? If not, then why would he be right about this?

Running a trade deficit means you have excess capital. It's an investment surplus. Like if a shirt made in Minnesota would cost $60 and a shirt made in China costs $30, you can buy the shirt from China and still have $30. Which can be used to buy other things or invest or whatever.

It's more complicated than that, obviously, because you have to have jobs doing things besides making those clothes you just bought from China. Otherwise it doesn't matter that the shirt cost $30 instead of $60 'cause you don't have $30. But historically we do tend to have jobs doing other things. Over the last 30-40 years real incomes have fallen as wages are depressed... but that's not the result of trade deficits, it's the result of evil suboptimal Republican tax, fiscal, and regulatory policy which is deliberately designed to extract wealth from the bottom 95% and give it to the top 5% with the lions share of that going to the top 1% and particularly 0.1%.

tl;dr So we have a big trade deficit because we generate a ton of wealth and its cheaper to build things elsewhere and import them.
posted by Justinian at 1:42 AM on July 1, 2017 [77 favorites]


(This is also one of the arguments in favor of trade pacts like NAFTA or TPP. Opposition to those treaties on the basis of trade deficits are wrongheaded. However, there may well be other arguments against them which are relevant like environmental, worker-welfare, or regulatory concerns.)
posted by Justinian at 1:46 AM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


tl;dr So we have a big trade deficit because we generate a ton of wealth and its cheaper to build things elsewhere and import them.

Yes, but this is what is confusing me: countries like Germany and Italy are really rich as well, and they don't seem to have huge trade deficits. I'm thinking that the problem with the deficit is that it pushes jobs from manufacturing into service, lower paid jobs. Or not?

Regarding trade pacts — as an EU citizen I have long since learnt that in the long term, the EU (which was originally a trade pact) has been very good for the environment, worker welfare and regulation/consumer safety. But of course that has a lot to do with the fact that it is the core EU policy area, so whatever little public awareness there is of whatever EU does is about those basic protections. For me the big wake-up call was when the German forests were dying during the 80's and 90's, and it became apparent that it couldn't be treated as a German national problem.
I get that there is less trust in an American administration using trade agreements for the good, even if that administration is Democratic, but in principle, trade agreements are the only way to stop the abuse going on in some countries.
posted by mumimor at 2:19 AM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I recommend Shaun Donnan of the Financial Times as someone who has a realistic grasp on the implications of trade policy. I'd link but it's paywalled.
posted by infini at 2:38 AM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


There is the view of many economists that at least a chunk of the US trade deficit is a direct result of the dollar's status as the global reserve currency (the "Triffin dilemma" is broadly what you want to search on for debate and commentary on this). The logic here, as badly explained at 2:50am by someone without any real knowledge of economics, so, uh, take this for what it's worth, is that people in other countries want to have US dollars because they're good and useful things to hold onto and exchange around the world, even if they're not trading them for goods and services from the US. That raises the value of the dollar, which makes it more expensive for everyone to buy goods manufactured in the US, which causes higher trade deficits and fewer manufacturing jobs.

But, and this is a big but, the fact that so many people around the world want dollars is really convenient if you happen to be the country that owns the printing press that makes them. And hey, that's us. If I'm overseas and sitting on a pile of dollars, I'm going to be investing that money in things priced in dollars, which means things like US Treasuries, stocks, and bonds. Keeping the dollar in high demand helps attract foreign investment and maintain low interest rates on the national debt, and if we were smart, we'd take advantage of those low interest rates to build infrastructure that can eventually pay for itself.

Trump could well resolve this problem by doing enough damage to the country's reputation that people decide that they'd be safer holding onto something besides dollars, but that wouldn't really be such a great thing, at least if you're not manufacturing goods for export. Anyway, you now know more than the President of the United States, who called Mike Flynn, a guy who very likely doesn't know any more about economics than I do, at 3am to ask if a strong dollar or a weak dollar was better for the economy, as it if was some kind of obvious binary choice; Flynn told him to go ask an economist. And conveniently enough, that's what time it is here now.
posted by zachlipton at 2:57 AM on July 1, 2017 [55 favorites]


I'm thinking that the problem with the deficit is that it pushes jobs from manufacturing into service, lower paid jobs. Or not?

It moves people from certain types of manufacturing into other jobs, yes, but there's nothing intrinsic to the process that requires those jobs be lower paid. If Trump wasn't set on destroying the US and possibly the world they could be green energy jobs, for instance.
posted by Justinian at 3:16 AM on July 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


How the fuck do people like LePage win elections.

Glad you asked! LePage won the governorship twice with less than 50% of the vote, because the non-terrible vote was split between a Democrat and Eliot Cutler the Independent. If there had been a run-off system in place, he surely would never have been governor. Good news: a Maine ballot initiative has instituted ranked voting! Bad news: the Maine Supreme Court indicates it's unconstitutional and will require a constitutional amendment! What's going to happen? No-one knows!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:24 AM on July 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


How the fuck do people like LePage win elections.

You ever been anywhere in Maine other than a vacation spot or Portland? It's basically a lobster-flavored Arkansas.
posted by spitbull at 3:25 AM on July 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


But is LePage influenced by Le Pen?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:25 AM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know someone from a large Catholic Acadian family in northern Maine. I also know lots of people in the Ozarks. What my friend describes about growing up in Aroostook County, Maine blew my mind. It made the rural Ozarks seem cosmopolitan.
posted by spitbull at 3:28 AM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm reading the diary of this dude writing in 1880, and one of his insults to art he didn't like is, 'T'would be better [that the artist] had a child of the bowels than of the brain.'

Please feel free to use for all of your old-timey insult needs. I know I need something better than shrieking 'GO AWAY' every time I see Trump's face.
posted by angrycat at 4:13 AM on July 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


As this whole thing gets more tangled, my growing concern is that Omnigate is so complex as to be unable to be articulated to the public.

I find it's gotten easier, actually, as the news stories have become less hints and clues and more bombshell revelations and patterns of behavior.

For the latest WSJ stuff, I think you could just say "Russians were trying to get documents to Flynn, and some guy who said he was working with Flynn said he'd gotten some of them."

I think the significance of that is pretty easy to understand!

And as long as you link to the source, you don't need to get into the details about "exactly how do we know this, and how sure are we, and what DON'T we know for sure, and what are we just reasonably surmising..." Good reporters will clarify all of that in the article, so you can just point the relatively small fraction of people who care about that stuff at the article. (Incidentally this is a pretty reliable way to tell real news from fake news. Don't cite sources that DON'T include those details!)

I find that it is important to add some context, though, when you are trying to educate people. So when I added the fact about Smith seeking hacked emails from Russians on behalf of Flynn to my site, I made sure to also mention that Roger Stone was in contact with Russian hackers as well, and seemed to have advance knowledge of some of the leaks. And that a Republican operative who was talking to Stone got a big chunk of data hacked from the DNC servers and used it to help target campaign activities in Florida. See the pattern?

But not TOO much context or people will get lost. Three facts is a good number for establishing a pattern while still being brief. Don't be afraid to leave stuff out! Just pick the three strongest pieces of evidence you've got, even if there are actually a thousand pieces of evidence you could cite.

And then I go ahead and draw the conclusion that these facts are pointing to. Yes, the Trump campaign was colluding with Russia.

And that's what people will actually grab onto a remember. Fact fact fact conclusion.

(..and here's a ink for more details.)

They won't remember the facts, but they'll remember that there were facts supporting that conclusion. (Very few wiil click the link for more details!)

I think reporters need to be careful not to draw broader conclusions in their investigative pieces (Though "Analysis," pieces and "Explainers" as well as opinion pieces can and should do so... ) But for those of us who are trying to educate the public, it's almost required.

And then you have to go up even one level higher. You have to show how those conclusions fit into a narrative. "He wanted X but he was faced with obstacle Y so he did Z."

If you've provided evidence for X, Y, and Z, the narrative is the most compelling way to get those conclusions to stick with people!

(I think Putin is actually the protagonist of the narrative we currently find ourselves in since the rest of us are mostly just reacting to his actions, and that's how I personally tend to tell this story, from Putin's POV... That's how it makes the most sense. He wanted to undermine American democracy but had no constituency or political power in America, so he ingratiated himself with a faction in a party which did have some power and was desperate to hang onto it ... and then tried to help them win.)

For more complicated sets of facts like ALL of Trump's financial connections to Russia, we fortunately now have interactive infographics. When information gets complicated and can't easily be threaded into a narrative, go graphical!

You can tell I've been thinking about this a lot, maybe.

I also want to add that for low information voters the only thing that matters is the narrative. Many people won't even bother to look at any level below that. But if they hear the same narrative over and over again from people in their peer group (which does not include people they think are hostile to them!), they will start to buy it, because that is how human beings work. (High information voters also work this way but hear more competing narratives and have to choose among them somehow.)

To sum up...

1. Fact fact fact conclusion citation
2. When the going gets complicated, go graphical.
3. ..."Which shows he wanted X but was blocked by Y so he did Z. "

4. Repeat the narrative! Get as many people as possible to repeat it with you (without being hostile to their listeners). Have the conclusions, facts, and citations ready, but start with the narrative and then end with it again after you explain.

Good luck! We are all middle school history textbook writers now!)

(And I think I still need to work on revising my site to better follow my own advice )
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:44 AM on July 1, 2017 [75 favorites]


My thinking about the importance of narratives is why I chose my MeFi username, by the way. So my last comment might be kinda eponysterical, but it's not really a coincidence!
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:50 AM on July 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


But, and this is a big but, the fact that so many people around the world want dollars is really convenient if you happen to be the country that owns the printing press that makes them.

Now, this is a problem but perhaps there's no pattern, I'm sure we're all friends here
posted by infini at 4:56 AM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Ever since I picked up Yanis Varoufakis' And the Weak Suffer What they Must?' I feel edumacated on the financialization of everything
posted by infini at 4:59 AM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Don't ruin taking a dump for me, angrycat
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:35 AM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


every time I see Trump's face...

Luther (and his insulting machine) is always helpful: "I can with good conscience consider you a fart-ass and an enemy of God."
posted by honestcoyote at 5:45 AM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


It made the rural Ozarks seem cosmopolitan

I went to upstate NY for a friend's wedding over a decade ago and was stunned to discover rednecks up there. At one point I literally saw a dude with (1) a goatee wearing (2) a Confederate flag t-shirt and (3) camo cutoffs climbing into (4) a jacked-up (5) pickup truck blasting (6) Toby Keith. Literally the only thing they didn't get right was the barbecue.

Since then I've learned from friends in Montana, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Maine, and even way the hell up in Alaska that yep, they've got 'em too. I still don't quite get it, culturally, beyond the obvious "white supremacy is everywhere" answer.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:15 AM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Perhaps a bit overly flattering to today's FBI, but still an interesting read: How Donald Trump Misunderstood the F.B.I.
posted by Slothrup at 6:17 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Two of the four estates are still functioning:

And that ain't bad!
posted by octobersurprise at 6:42 AM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Gideon Lichfield, Quartz: It’s time to start ignoring the president of the United States
A normal US president is like a creature in the middle of a lake, his every move creating far-reaching ripples. This one is like a rock in a stream; he creates turbulence and is to be avoided, but everything flows on around him.

OK, he has nuclear codes. You don’t ignore a man with nuclear codes. But you don’t have to lavish attention on him either. Actually, attention is what gets him riled up.

It’s time to stop being outraged. It isn’t even really outrage—it’s gloatrage, when you’re secretly thrilled that he’s proving himself to be just as bad as you thought. (Admit it.)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:44 AM on July 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


That is not quite how I would describe the terror and instability he generates, no.
posted by Artw at 6:49 AM on July 1, 2017 [26 favorites]


> It’s time to stop being outraged. It isn’t even really outrage—it’s gloatrage, when you’re secretly thrilled that he’s proving himself to be just as bad as you thought. (Admit it.)

No, Gideon Lichfield, that's offensive bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself for writing it.

Back here in the real world, we don't have the luxury of "ignoring" the President. Many people need to keep tabs on what he's doing to know when it's time to stop resisting and start retreating. People are terrified of what this man is capable of with the apparatus of the state behind him. He's harming real people with his actions, and if somehow people did engage in a mass movement of "ignoring him", he'd keep harming them, whether through action or inaction. His mere presence in our government is catastrophic. Describing it like some imaginary problem that people can solve by just wishing it away is completely ridiculous.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:52 AM on July 1, 2017 [74 favorites]


Luther (and his insulting machine) is always helpful:
You are the head of all the worst scoundrels on earth, a vicar of the devil, an enemy of God, an adversary of Christ, a destroyer of Christ's churches; a teacher of lies, blasphemies, and idolatries; an arch-thief and robber; a murderer of kings and inciter to all kinds of bloodshed; a brothel-keeper over all brothel-keepers and all vermin, even that which cannot be named; an Antichrist, a person of sin and child of perdition; a true werewolf.
It's a little long to fit on a protest sign, but I like it!
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:57 AM on July 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


we don't have the luxury of "ignoring" the President

But on the other hand he is a narcissist who thrives on being the center of attention. There is nothing he hates more than being ignored.

Certainly I wish we could all stop quoting his tweets to each other. Why do we help him spread his narrative that way? I refuse to link to or comment on his tweets, in general.

I think "pay attention to what he does, not what he says" is probably a good rule of thumb.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:58 AM on July 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


"Ignore the orange beast" is a good way to maintain one's mental health, but not so good as a political strategy. Scott Fitzgerald once said that the mark of genius was the capacity to hold two conflicting ideas in one's mind at once. At this moment in history, I think we're all called upon to be geniuses.
posted by octobersurprise at 7:14 AM on July 1, 2017 [13 favorites]



Certainly I wish we could all stop quoting his tweets to each other. Why do we help him spread his narrative that way?

There are so much in his tweets beyond his narrative. They are a goldmine of information.
His narrative and the pushing of it is integral to understanding what is going on. Part of the larger narrative is him being wide open on twitter.

His tweets are an indication of his head space which unlike any other President matters because his policy (if you can call it that) is based on his moods and what week it is. Like last weekend, they also point to what is brewing behind the scenes, we could tell that there was something more concrete coming out on the collusion front and oh look it did. The guy can't keep quiet and unlike past Presidents who have rudementary understanding of how information works in politics his little tweet talks reveal more then he likely realizes he does. He thinks he's being smart by trying to shape the narrative but it only works for his base.

He admits to shady and likely illegal activity in tweets. If investigators aren't already on it his narrative says 'oh if you haven't already look over here.'
posted by Jalliah at 7:17 AM on July 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


But on the other hand he is a narcissist who thrives on being the center of attention. There is nothing he hates more than being ignored.

We can pay attention to what he's doing, record it, object to it, protect those most hurt by it and not kowtow to his need for narcissistic supply. IME, recognizing the narcissist as a roadblock you must route around is more infuriating to the narcissist than straight-up ignoring. Pretending you don't notice things that upset you is how the narcissist deals with their emotions; they can process you ignoring them within a framework they understand. But perceiving the narcissist as they are -- weak, small, hurt, and incapable of giving you what you need -- that is something the narcissist cannot understand or tolerate. It's not ignoring so much as moving beyond -- I'm aware of the violence that he is capable of, but I know that there is no action I can take that will impact whether he chooses to engage in that violence; spending time or energy pretending we can impact his decision to act on his violent instincts is a waste (and that waste of our life force is his narcissistic supply). We have to prepare to protect people from his violence and work to make sure the number of people his violence may impact is ever decreasing. This work involves paying very close attention to what he and his cronies are doing; but we center the potential and actual victims of his behavior in that narrative.

His violence is like a hurricane - you can predict it within a range, but you don't know exactly where it will land or how bad it will be; we should be prepared to protect the most vulnerable in the worst possible predicted scenario. This involves studying the hurricane, understanding how hurricanes work, the history of this particular hurricane's movements, and frequent monitoring of the hurricane. Ignoring the hurricane, placating the hurricane, threatening the hurricane - none of these things work, because the hurricane doesn't have the capacity to care about things, it only has the capacity for destruction.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:30 AM on July 1, 2017 [113 favorites]


When the history of this shitshow gets written in fifty years time the authors will surely have a better understanding of what mattered and what didn't than we do. For us, today, there is an overload of data. We have only the barest ability to separate signal from noise. It feels like living in a dream inasmuch as cause and effect have parted company and this avalanche of ever-more-insane situations is just accepted as the natural state. The people who insist they have an idea of what is going to happen next are likely to be no better at forecasting than a flipped coin. I wonder if this is how those monks felt during the Dark Ages, watching civilization collapse in slow-motion, not knowing what to do but survive and write it all down.
posted by um at 7:42 AM on July 1, 2017 [24 favorites]


There are so much in his tweets beyond his narrative. They are a goldmine of information.

Seriously. No, seriously.

It's not necessary to link to Trump's tweet from this morning in which he continues to lash out at Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski (supposedly against the wishes of his staff), but his harangue puts his state of mind on display for everyone to read into. Foreign intelligence will take note of how agitated he is during a crisis, how vengeful he is when slighted, and how egocentric he is in his thinking. Journalists will take note of his attacks on a previously favored media figures and may decide either to report on him more vigorously or to acquiesce to his ideas of positive coverage, if only unconsciously.

More ominously, though, before that he tweeted, "Numerous states are refusing to give information to the very distinguished VOTER FRAUD PANEL. What are they trying to hide?" That tells us what kind of narrative Trump is trying to establish, at least among his supporters, for the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity's real purpose of furthering voter suppression.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:56 AM on July 1, 2017 [35 favorites]


I wonder if there is any movement to urge Twitter to stop allowing the Trump personal account to post, given that he is engaged in cyber-bullying.

Can you imagine the impotent rage being cut off might create in the Lincoln Bathroom?
posted by spitbull at 8:10 AM on July 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


He's always got the POTUS account for official business.
posted by Artw at 8:29 AM on July 1, 2017


If he finds any.
posted by Etrigan at 8:33 AM on July 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


So Anne Gearan and Karen DeYoung from the WaPo have an article with more context from Trump's meeting with Netanyahu; apparently he watched a film that was designed to personally discredit Abbas before their meeting:
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used an intimate May 22 meeting with Trump to show him an Israeli-compiled video of what Netanyahu called anti-Israel incitement by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, Israel’s would-be partner in any peace deal.

Trump met with Abbas the next day and surprised him with a fusillade of accusations about terrorism and Palestinian attitudes toward Israel that Trump said would thwart a deal, U.S. and other officials familiar with the meeting said.

Trump bellowed, “You tricked me!” at a shaken Abbas, a U.S. official told Israel’s Channel 2.
...
Some U.S. officials concluded that by showing Trump the video, which included snippets of Abbas appearing to incite Palestinians to violence, Netanyahu was intent on killing any possibility of peace talks before they even began. Trump’s viewing of the video has not been previously reported.
The article includes a not credible rebuttal from the White House and the analysis that the process is now focusing on diversion, distraction, and the blame game.
posted by peeedro at 8:34 AM on July 1, 2017 [53 favorites]


That there is a budget crisis in Illinois wasn't even on my radar, but wow, have you seen the video put out by Illinois Comptroller Susana Mendoza a couple of days ago? I've never seen anything like it.

And here's a Bloomberg article. They failed to pass a budget yesterday.
Illinois legislators failed to enact a budget by the end of Friday, the last day of the budget year. While negotiations continued and lawmakers planned to meet over the weekend, the failure marked a continuation of the unprecedented impasse that’s left Illinois without a full-year budget since mid-2015. Without a deal around July 1, S&P Global Ratings has warned that the nation’s fifth-most-populous state will likely get downgraded again, losing its investment-grade status.
posted by kprincehouse at 8:39 AM on July 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


tl;dr So we have a big trade deficit because we generate a ton of wealth and its cheaper to build things elsewhere and import them.

That sounds sustainable, but I don't think it is:
https://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/international/intinv/2017/intinv416.htm

Creditor nations -- aka nations that can pay their way in the world -- seem to have their act together.

If things continue as they are, I suspect what will happen this century is the US middle class standard of living will join the level enjoyed by the middle class of Asia.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:46 AM on July 1, 2017


The thought occurred to me: Why aren't there a million people marching in DC protesting to save PPACA right now?
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:50 AM on July 1, 2017


The thought occurred to me: Why aren't there a million people marching in DC protesting to save PPACA right now?

a) Because that's what you do when shit gets truly desperate.
b) The battle lines are clearly drawn, the object is to scare the living shit out of the Republican senators who are in marginal states and are greatly at risk in a wave. A national march is too easy to write off as coastal liberal elites having a hissy fit.
posted by Talez at 8:53 AM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Just leaving this here, Pat Bagley, the best political cartoonist in the business, works for the Salt Lake Tribune, of all places. This is his take on the scene today.
posted by Oyéah at 8:56 AM on July 1, 2017 [40 favorites]


I love Pat Bagley. He has exactly the steel backbone you need to do what he does in the place he does it in and gives every appearance of giving exactly zero shits.
posted by Pope Guilty at 9:01 AM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


I went to upstate NY for a friend's wedding over a decade ago and was stunned to discover rednecks up there.

Since then I've learned from friends in Montana, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Maine, and even way the hell up in Alaska that yep, they've got 'em too. I still don't quite get it, culturally, beyond the obvious "white supremacy is everywhere" answer.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:15 AM on July 1 [4 favorites +] [!]


Eponysterkal.
posted by Rykey at 9:02 AM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Without actually coming out and saying so, State and aid have joined epa and the parks service. quality of data has gone through the roof in little known websites focused on the price of eggs in remote African villages.
posted by infini at 9:04 AM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Pat Bagley; I once wrote him a fan letter because of one of his cartoons, and he sent me the sketch with a lovely note. Just saying, he's a pretty froopy dude.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:07 AM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


It's a long digression I will henceforth drop, but I'd like to recommend Clifford Murphy's (really wonderful) book "Yankee Twang" on the history of country music in New England for anyone surprised by affinities between Yankee and Southern culture and political identity. There were people dressing up in cowboy hats and yodeling about Dixie (yes it has always been confusing) on radio/stage barn dance shows in New England in the 1930s, just slightly after the explosion of barn dance radio in the south and Midwest. Many of the early New England country musicians were Acadian or Celtic but some were Eastern and Southern European immigrants.
posted by spitbull at 9:09 AM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


The deadline for Qatar to meet Saudi Arabia's ridiculous demands is tomorrow. And while the USA is paralyzed by Tweets, others are taking over business (link to Al-Jazeera live feed)
Very short summary: Russia and Turkey are talking business, with Turkey sending troops.
posted by mumimor at 9:14 AM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


My schoolfriend's wife worked for both somewhere in Africa over ten years ago, and from what I hear tell, this thing on twitter has made diplomat's jobs 10 times harder than it already is. How can they bring themselves to speak on corruption and nepotism in tinpot African dictatorships when the hypocrisy of their words is obvious to all. What do they do? Go silent? Not do their long trained job being part of the foreign service that builds bridges, creates understanding, and aims for peace? gwb made it hard but now it's ridiculous.

has fired all foreign US ambassadors with nobody to replace them

but they were empty before they were emptied

this is current as of thursday - netherlands, norway, australia, denmark, the EU, Finland, France, Monaco, WTF is this kind of vacant?
posted by infini at 9:15 AM on July 1, 2017 [29 favorites]


That there is a budget crisis in Illinois wasn't even on my radar, but wow, have you seen the video put out by Illinois Comptroller Susana Mendoza a couple of days ago? I've never seen anything like it.

And here's a Bloomberg article. They failed to pass a budget yesterday.

Illinois legislators failed to enact a budget by the end of Friday, the last day of the budget year. While negotiations continued and lawmakers planned to meet over the weekend, the failure marked a continuation of the unprecedented impasse that’s left Illinois without a full-year budget since mid-2015. Without a deal around July 1, S&P Global Ratings has warned that the nation’s fifth-most-populous state will likely get downgraded again, losing its investment-grade status.
posted by kprincehouse at 12:39 AM on July 2 [+] [!]


Jaw on floor. Is there a way forward? How does this not eventually require a federal bailout?
posted by saysthis at 9:15 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


this is current as of thursday

No ambassador to Qatar, no ambassador to Saudi Arabia…
posted by mumimor at 9:23 AM on July 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Jaw on floor. Is there a way forward? How does this not eventually require a federal bailout?

States can't go bankrupt. Essentially you just stop paying for shit, furlough everyone, and hope that things don't descend into chaos.

The whole thing is basically what happens when you put strict Republicans in charge of traditionally Democratic states and they don't have a supermajority. Baker for instance needs to toe a more liberal line because Democrats can just override him on whatever they want. It provides a certain... incentive... for him to work with the legislature.

Rauner on the other hand is a Republican private equity guy. He wants his taxes cut and if Illinois burns while he plays chicken with the legislature he'll pick up himself up and move to another state if necessary. There's no leverage for the speaker and Rauner's probably figured it out.
posted by Talez at 9:24 AM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


mumimor

but we have TWEETS!!!
posted by infini at 9:24 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Germany has no US ambassador to talk to and in one week's time there's the G20 and protocol is waving their tophats, while tap dancing and doing jazz hands with spiffy white gloves and long tailed coats. <----direct quote
posted by infini at 9:30 AM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


In place of cake, I'm baking a Pastilla for today's news. I hope it will bring some good
posted by mumimor at 9:35 AM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Germany has no US ambassador to talk to

The US ambassador to Germany is a patronage position. We have a career diplomat, Kent Logsdon, the Chargé d’Affaires ad interim, performing all the actual foreign service work with his staff. Emerson was a pretty hands on patronage ambassador but they still rely on career diplomatic staff to do the "real" work. The US having no ambassador means we have nobody to show up to nice parties, have lunches with business bigwigs, and cut ribbons on bilateral projects. That's about it.
posted by Talez at 9:38 AM on July 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


*phew*
posted by infini at 9:42 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


The US having no ambassador means we have nobody to show up to nice parties, have lunches with business bigwigs, and cut ribbons on bilateral projects. That's about it.

Across most of Europe. What message does that send?
posted by infini at 9:43 AM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Across most of Europe. What message does that send?

Yeah. They already worked out that our administration is staffed by a bunch of greedy and incompetent boobs.
posted by Talez at 9:46 AM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Like mumimor, sitting here in europe wondering what next
posted by infini at 9:52 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Seriously. Most ambassadorships to countries that aren't dirt poor are patronage.

OK Saudi Arabia has Christopher Henzel:
Mr. Henzel has spent most of his career specializing in the Arab and Muslim worlds. He studied Arabic in Tunisia.
Qatar has Ryan Gilha:
Previously, Ryan served as Director of the London Regional Media Hub and Arabic Language Spokesperson for the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Public Affairs. Ryan has also served in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and twice in Lebanon. Ryan speaks Arabic, French, Uzbek, and Persian.
Career diplomatic staff are more qualified than the ambassadors we send to conduct diplomacy. The fact that we don't have Trump's flunkies further embarrassing us around the world should be relieving.
posted by Talez at 9:57 AM on July 1, 2017 [23 favorites]


Gosh, in case no one has noticed, they are dismantling our country. The Republicans are too greedy, with their eyes on some fucking prize in an empty box, with shiny wrapping, in which they can worship themselves, they can't even see the reflection of the big, sinking ship of state, that is surely pulling the cloth off their table too.

Look, everyone needs a big bowl of mixed metaphors for Saturday breakfast, no? I take mine with soy milk in cold coffee.
posted by Oyéah at 9:59 AM on July 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


I know the soundtrack to this mess discussion is so 200 comments ago, but this one has been on repeat lately and it's totally prescient and perfect:

Apocalypse
posted by carsonb at 10:04 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Stumbled across a great analysis/takedown of the NRA's latest propaganda hit. It's on Facebook, but it's public so I don't think you have to log in to see it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:11 AM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


Speaking of vacancies...

Politico White House releases salary info for Trump's aides
The Trump White House’s inaugural salary disclosures also show that it has nearly 100 fewer staffers than President Barack Obama had in 2016. Obama’s White House had 473 aides, with 19 assistants to the president. Nine Obama aides earned top salaries of $176,461, and only one staffer, consultant Susan Davies, went unpaid. And Obama’s body man, Brian Mosteller, took home $60,000 less than Trump’s long-serving body guard, Keith Schiller.
[my bold]

It's a combination of DGAF, plus only hiring people who have never criticized Trump, plus not knowing many people in government. I wonder if DJT is unaware of the services provided by unstaffed positions or uncomfortable with having that many employees. It is strange that he has shut down, under-hired, and failed to nominate so many positions affecting all areas of the Executive Branch.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:33 AM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


I swear to God he is breaking me....

Politico The other treaty on the chopping block
A fierce debate is brewing inside the Trump administration over whether to withdraw from another international treaty — this one a cornerstone disarmament pact with Russia banning an entire class of nuclear missiles.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:38 AM on July 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Back during the transition there was a story about the Trump team visiting the WH and standing agape at the number of staffers. Kushner was said to have asked about how many were staying on and then having been stunned by the answer of "none."

We all read that as haha look at the naifs, they have no idea what they're in for.

I think maybe we had that backward and Kushner's response was relief that they wouldn't have to fire everyone. Who needs a bunch of serious career minded folks hanging around and getting in the way of the grift?
posted by notyou at 10:40 AM on July 1, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's a combination of DGAF, plus only hiring people who have never criticized Trump, plus not knowing many people in government.

Don't forget the age-old business adages of doing more with less and addressing 'unresolved personnel issues' to cut costs. Gotta wonder if the left's swamp (career politicians more beholden to corporate donors than constituents) wasn't the swamp Trump was talking about. Maybe his swamp was over 100 'unnecessary' WH staffers?

Ugh.
posted by carsonb at 10:43 AM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think it's just due to Bannon being in charge.
posted by BeginAgain at 10:51 AM on July 1, 2017


Staffing the government serves the end of making sure the government works properly. That is not a concern for this administration.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:54 AM on July 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Since then I've learned from friends in Montana, Wyoming, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Maine, and even way the hell up in Alaska that yep, they've got 'em too. I still don't quite get it, culturally, beyond the obvious "white supremacy is everywhere" answer.

As Spitbull noted, country music is a prime disseminator of conservative ideology and identity around the US. Outside of big cities and even in suburbs across the US, you find people with the same Southern drawl (now conceived of as a country drawl) that was never part of their region historically.

Liberals have had great success disseminating their ideology through rock music, movies and most standup. Conservatives counter with talk radio, "blue collar comedy," religion and country music. In many ways, with the materialism and misogyny, hip-hop is a surprisingly mixed bag.
posted by msalt at 10:54 AM on July 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


Well from what I've seen coming out of the WH what they could really use is some professional copy editors. Maybe some proof readers.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:56 AM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does anyone know if there is any coordinated effort to get grocery stores and department stores to stop selling the National Enquirer at the checkout?
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 10:57 AM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Omg, you guys. I love Nederland. My ancestry is Dutch, even if one of my ancestors was boiled by his townspeople. These things happen. I'm totally going to apply to be the ambassador.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:06 AM on July 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


I don't think trying to stonewall Kobach is going to work. Then he gets to make up whatever "facts" he wants and opponents are stuck trying to prove a negative. A smarter plan might be to compete with him with the same data. Any data he gets, also goes to anyone who wants it.

That way when he asserts he's found evidence of whatever, fifty states and a hundred independent orgs can immediately say "the data (the SAME data you have) shows the opposite, in fact." He can't play "I know something you don't know."
posted by ctmf at 11:07 AM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Funny that you don't really hear him blathering on about how many employees he managed and gave jobs to now that he oversees an organization that actually has a sizable amount employees.

Haha, didn't think of that. He could be a job creator today just by assigning people to open positions he actually has. How's that working out?
posted by ctmf at 11:09 AM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Career diplomatic staff are more qualified than the ambassadors we send to conduct diplomacy. The fact that we don't have Trump's flunkies further embarrassing us around the world should be relieving.

Thanks, that is really relieving, though it also reminded me of another thing I've been thinking of and maybe already mentioned in another thread.

If I see that some American diplomat or journalist or researcher is an expert on culture or languages, I am not always relieved. Because where did they get that knowledge, those skills? Sometimes, since I began looking at it a couple of decades ago, I have been deeply confounded by US international policies. Like, why Saudi Arabia? Why Pakistan? It makes no sense (don't focus on these two specifics, there are tons more). And it transcends party politics. I know, Obama did deals with Iran and Cuba, but not without turning around seven times and spitting over his shoulder. But still it's the same: France is weird (though they helped during the revolutionary war), on the positive there's the special relationship with the UK regardless of how ridiculous their government is, and China are stealing your jobs, etc.
The thought I had is that for many reasons, the USA, like every other country is dependent on information from other countries, "friends". And if those "friends" are unreliable, the US gets unreliable information. Ask Pakistan for information about it's neighbors; China, India, Afghanistan what will you get? Where else would you go for information if everyone knows you're in bed with Pakistan? I've been to Syria, and obviously I don't like its government, but if your main source of information on Syria is Israel, you may well be missing stuff.
Very few Americans can move unnoticed in other countries and gather information independently, even in the UK or Australia, and people who are in exile in the US are not reliable informants either, even if their cause may be worthy.
With strong and intelligent administrations, who know this might be the case, American foreign policy is strange and seems stupid to many onlookers but disasters are mostly contained. With ignorant and arrogant administrations, it becomes a disaster. Back when Bush started the Iraq war and most of congress applauded, remember the flat out rejection from France and Germany? What if they had more knowledge, based on better information, supporting what the UN inspection was saying: there are no weapons of mass destruction and anyhow this will lead to disruption in the Middle East that no one can handle. Instead both sides in the US listened to people like Ahmed Chalabi, while renaming French fries.

Now, that sword dance video made me sick. They were hopping around, literally dancing to the tune of a corrupt, terrorist funding dictatorship. What can be worse?
Even a stoned teenager in Europe or in the Middle East or North Africa or Central Asia can see that depending on Saudi Arabia for fighting terrorists is really dumb. Also - those regions are the hardest hit by Islamic terror, often funded by or inspired by Saudi Wahabists. Yet Trump and his buddies dance on.
posted by mumimor at 11:10 AM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


That way when he asserts he's found evidence of whatever, fifty states and a hundred independent orgs can immediately say "the data (the SAME data you have) shows the opposite, in fact." He can't play "I know something you don't know."

It's hard because it doesn't seem like their agenda is to only manipulate the data per se. Publishing names, addresses, DOBs, partial SSNs, party affiliation, and voting history is about doxxing on an unfathomable scale.
posted by gerryblog at 11:10 AM on July 1, 2017 [35 favorites]


By invoking a rarely used law from the cold war era, Trump could limit imports of goods deemed critical to national defence and satisfy his ‘America first’ policy.
Thus risking a global trade war.
posted by adamvasco at 11:19 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


If I see that some American diplomat or journalist or researcher is an expert on culture or languages, I am not always relieved. Because where did they get that knowledge, those skills? Sometimes, since I began looking at it a couple of decades ago, I have been deeply confounded by US international policies. Like, why Saudi Arabia? Why Pakistan? It makes no sense (don't focus on these two specifics, there are tons more). And it transcends party politics. I know, Obama did deals with Iran and Cuba, but not without turning around seven times and spitting over his shoulder. But still it's the same: France is weird (though they helped during the revolutionary war), on the positive there's the special relationship with the UK regardless of how ridiculous their government is, and China are stealing your jobs, etc.

US diplomacy is strange because it's a combination of many people and many forces trying to pull the interests of the United States in a specific direction.

Most of the career diplomats have spent their college years studying a particular area and language then go on to junior careers in that region. I have an old acquaintance from Alexandria who's father is a career diplomat, and he's following in the family business. He started in the Air Force, got into GWU with the GI bill, is studying Arabic and the Middle East, and is probably heading into a diplomatic career once he's finished his masters and taken the requisite public service exams. People literally spend years preparing to just enter this career track.

In the case of specific policies, there are usually historical reason. For Saudia Arabia the main reason was probably uniting in the fight against communism, for the US the worry was the subversion of democracy, for the Sauds it was being deposed a'la the Shah. Pakistan was Nixon trying to contain the spread of communism to Afghanistan by partnering up with Pakistan and (a bit) later on to enable to the Mujahideen. You don't really start throwing away allies once you've gone to the trouble to make them unless they are particularly troublesome.

Britain we have a "special relationship" with because we have trade going back hundreds of years. The two countries are so interwoven it would take out a noticeable fraction of each country's economy should they not want to continue with said relationship. The other thing is that while the US can't (easily) spy (directly) on her own citizens, it's perfectly willing (and is legal to) let other allies spy on US citizens that those allies deem worthy of investigating and that information being backchanneled to US intelligence. Losing that relationship would be losing a ridiculously useful tool in the arsenal of US intelligence services.
posted by Talez at 11:25 AM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Elizabeth Warren action figure ad (youtube 1min49sec). Includes time lapse /fast forward footage of sculpting process and it is worth watching to end for a fun little punch.
posted by phoque at 11:39 AM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Publishing names, addresses, DOBs, partial SSNs, party affiliation, and voting history is about doxxing on an unfathomable scale.

Nevertheless, having to be reactive to whatever Kobach makes up, without data in hand, is not going to work. Maybe states need to start making their own commissions and sharing between each other - it doesn't have to be general public. SOMEONE or someones trustworthy need to be able to proactively analyze what he's known or likely to have and rapidly peer-review (as it were) his analysis.
posted by ctmf at 11:50 AM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, the most pressing issue most women face isn't a lack of access to capital, it's abusive rapey men who hurt them personally and professionally.

Or, as we're discovering, losing access to capital because of abusive rapey men.
posted by infini at 11:51 AM on July 1, 2017 [18 favorites]


...Trump could limit imports of goods deemed critical to national defence and satisfy his ‘America first’ policy.

This is the sort of thing I really dread. Not necessarily this specifically, but that Trump will do something truly drastic to make a splash, shake things up, and look decisive. Maybe economic, maybe another war, maybe the torpedoing of an alliance, maybe some domestic law-enforcement horror. Maybe if the AHCA is defeated he'll take even further executive actions to demolish the ACA (like has already been doing). Something that will have dramatic, awful consequences for the country.

And beyond that, I dread how so many of his supporters will look on the consequences of that action--including the consequences to them, like lost jobs or no healthcare or a war--and they'll just be even pissier that Trump "had" to do that because liberals. Hell, his approval numbers are still sky-high among his supporters. It doesn't fucking matter to them how awful he is.

...and we'll still have people trying to figure out how to sway those voters rather than focusing on increasing more viable support from elsewhere.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:55 AM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


"Do you think Trump is right about literally anything else? If not, then why would he be right about this?" posted by Justinian at 1:42 AM on July 1

I need this on a t-shirt.
posted by free f_ cat at 11:59 AM on July 1, 2017 [25 favorites]


Talez, I sort of understand your point, and I certainly appreciate that there are many very accomplished American diplomats, what I don't understand it that there are few apparent or even no efforts to remedy the bias of the information that tradition or history might lead to. If all of your knowledge of Cuba comes from Cubans in exile, there is no way you can ever have a dialogue with the Cuban government. It wouldn't make any sense. That isn't exactly what is happening when it comes to Cuba, but the further you go away from the US, the more it is.

Maybe this is easier to discuss with historical examples: back during the cold war, the US got a lot of it's information about the Warsaw Pact nations from European Intelligence. This carried a lot of issues. Both British and German secret services were famously infiltrated by spies from East Germany and the Sovjet Union. But even the legit intelligence was biased, because the people working with it were heavily biased. I grew up in fear of the terrible Red Army, and when the wall came down I went with friends for a trip along the Frankfurter Strasse heading out east of Berlin. We came upon a large Sovjet barrack and went in to see the skinny and very young East Asian soldiers who were selling off their hats and watches among the totally run down buildings and trucks. I laughed and laughed and laughed. As a military brat, I could compare with what I had been used to across Western Europe and there was just no way these starved little boys with their rusty equipment could have matched Western forces.
This complex we were visiting would have been reported as a huge force, holding Berlin. It wasn't, there was no threat, we had been scared of a ghost. I don't think the European spies were lying - I think they were scared and that their fear colored their perception and I think that their very choice to become spies was a reflection of their politics. In addition to that, the CIA had their own network of informants across Europe, and these were if anything quite a bit more unhinged than the people working in European services. Working for a foreign intelligence agency is treason, even if that agency belongs to an ally, and people who choose treason are very rarely reliable.

Diplomats have another set of biases and intelligence traps to deal with, but at the end of the day, it's just really difficult to find out what is real out there. And seen from abroad, the US is failing more than anyone else at it. Which leads to a lot of world leaders thinking Americans are stupid and making assumptions based on that, which is in itself really stupid, but hey, everyone can be stupid! (I'm looking at you Macron, you'd better know what you are up to)
posted by mumimor at 12:06 PM on July 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


Publishing names, addresses, DOBs, partial SSNs, party affiliation, and voting history is about doxxing on an unfathomable scale.

That kind of works to his advantage in another way, too. He gets to be in a unique position where every state has a piece of the data but only he has it all. Since nobody else has the aggregate, he can claim it shows whatever he wants. THEN, he can claim he won't prove it, because privacy.

While the burden of proof should be on him, it won't work that way in practice.
posted by ctmf at 12:19 PM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


That goes to stonewalling, to me. Every state should refuse, every civil rights organization should be suing to block this, to whatever extent we're able.
posted by gerryblog at 12:25 PM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Since nobody else has the aggregate

Except Putin.
posted by spitbull at 12:26 PM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


Huh? Doesn't virtually everyone have the aggregate already? Partial SSNs are usually an exception, but most states can't release that under state law anyway. This data floats around between parties, campaigns, and outside groups all the damn time, and a massive amount of it, including sentiment analysis, just leaked because an RNC vendor failed to put a password on their downloads directory.

It's frightening, because the data can be used to do harm and stalk people, and the more available it is the more likely it is for that to happen, but don't go around thinking this is some kind of massive trove of previously unseen data they want to release; it's mainly all the same data that campaigns have been using for years.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on July 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Since nobody else has the aggregate

Except Putin.


Well, him and Robert Mercer.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:40 PM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


So, as Trump ranted about, Greta Van Susteren got was abruptly canned at MSNBC and will be replaced by Ari Melber, who is much more liberal. I guess MSNBC finally got the memo. Van Susteren's show was a giant pit of suck in a solid lineup.
posted by Justinian at 12:49 PM on July 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


By invoking a rarely used law from the cold war era, Trump could limit imports of goods deemed critical to national defence and satisfy his ‘America first’ policy.

That story is nuts:
“One official estimated the sentiment in the room as 22 against and 3 in favor – but since one of the three is named Donald Trump, it was case closed,” Axios reported. “Everyone else in the room, more than 75% of those present, were adamantly opposed, arguing it was bad economics and bad global politics. At one point, Trump was told his almost entire cabinet thought this was a bad idea. But everyone left the room believing the country is headed toward a major trade confrontation.”
Why bother having a cabinet?

It's also worth pointing out that if this idea is intended or sold as a measure to curb anti-competitive behavior from China, less than 2% of US steel imports and 5% of aluminum come from China.
posted by peeedro at 12:56 PM on July 1, 2017 [19 favorites]


Watching another cable TV debate about the health care system where the conservative participants repeat the "Obamacare is exploding! And also the sky is falling!" line my question has been:

There was that Republican-championed effort to require all members of Congress to get their health insurance through Obamacare. So if it's in a "death spiral", why aren't we hearing any personal stories from Congresspeople who have lost access to health care due to the supposed collapse of Obamacare? Or at least stories from their families?

I mean in theory they should be evenly geographically distributed across the country. So if there are allegedly-huge parts of the country impacted by the "catastrophe" of Obamacare's collapse there should be many members of Congress impacted by it. Or even if they personally are getting to buy insurance from a location geographically associated with Washington, D.C., or something like that we should be hearing stories about what the awful scourge of Obamacare is doing to their extended families back home.

It sounds like beyond just having both the general populace and Congress required to buy insurance through Obamacare together, the general populace needs to be able to buy insurance both in their own county where they live and also in whatever location their elected representatives and their families have been able to buy insurance which coincidentally hasn't been affected at all by the terrible, terrible, supposed implosion of Obamacare.

Not "buying insurance across state lines", of course, but an option in a federally-regulated district like Washington, D.C.: a "public option", dare I say. President Trump has been clamoring for Democratic cooperation in reforming Obamacare and whaddaya know, Democrats just so happen to have pre-cooperated and pre-proposed this and many other reforms eight years ago. They sure love to play edited video clips of Obama talking about measures like this which didn't actually become part of Obamacare, and claim they're things he promised.
posted by XMLicious at 12:59 PM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Julie Turkewitz, NYT: ‘I Want This to Get Over’: After Congressional Shooting, Complex Grief for a Gunman’s Widow
Neighbors have urged her not to mow the lawn, for fear she’ll be attacked in her yard. A friend takes out her trash, dispersing it around town to evade snoops. When she ventured to the Shop ’N Save alone recently, a white-haired woman — a stranger — approached her in the parking lot and slapped her across the face.

“That was O.K.,” Ms. Hodgkinson said. “Get it out, lady. Just don’t pick up a gun and shoot somebody.”

She cried all the way home.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:05 PM on July 1, 2017 [34 favorites]


They call that "complex grief?"
posted by rhizome at 1:10 PM on July 1, 2017


Why bother having a cabinet?

Governor William J. Le Petomane: I didn't get a "harrumph" out of that guy!
Hedley Lamarr: Give the governor "harrumph"!
Staff member: Harrumph!
Governor William J. Le Petomane: You watch your ass.
posted by Devonian at 1:15 PM on July 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's also worth pointing out that if this idea is intended or sold as a measure to curb anti-competitive behavior from China, less than 2% of US steel imports

Also, according to the final table in that PDF "U.S. Trade Remedies in Effect Against Steel Mill Imports" China already has the highest number of trade remedies in effect against it, with nearly twice the number of any other country. (Admittedly, "number of trade remedies" seems like a rather unspecific metric.)
posted by XMLicious at 1:20 PM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Isn't voter data already in the wild now?
posted by Stu-Pendous at 1:25 PM on July 1, 2017


Also, according to the final table in that PDF "U.S. Trade Remedies in Effect Against Steel Mill Imports" China already has the highest number of trade remedies in effect against it, with nearly twice the number of any other country.

Yeah, the WTO, it works. You can't kneecap China's steel or aluminum industries at the US borders, this tariff idea is laughable.

Also, this picture made me laugh but not in a good way, the White House rolled out the red carpet for Donald and Melania to stand on while they greet South Korean President Moon Jae-In and First Lady Kim Jung-sook.
posted by peeedro at 1:35 PM on July 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


That picture is so obnoxious. I guess it's just part of the general humiliation he was performing.

But Kim Jung-sook's dress is to die for.
posted by mumimor at 1:41 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Not "buying insurance across state lines", of course, but an option in a federally-regulated district like Washington, D.C.: a "public option", dare I say. President Trump has been clamoring for Democratic cooperation in reforming Obamacare and whaddaya know, Democrats just so happen to have pre-cooperated and pre-proposed this and many other reforms eight years ago. They sure love to play edited video clips of Obama talking about measures like this which didn't actually become part of Obamacare, and claim they're things he promised.

That's the thing- Obamacare wouldn't be failing at all if it weren't for the changes republicans insisted on, like no public option and no reinsurance plan to protect insurance companies from big losses. It would be nice if we could just add those back in, but the horse had left the barn. Insurance companies are pulling out because they are losing money. The public option should be added back in, but that would be both popular and socialist, God forbid.

I buy Obamacare through the exchange, and there's only one company serving my county now. But I can't cover my kids in college. Well, I could technically, but they would never find an in-network provider if they got sick or injured since they live in different states, so it's useless. Try talking to someone at the exchange about having a dependent living in a different state, and they have no idea what I'm walking about. "You can't claim a dependent who doesn't live with you!" Yes, I can, I have for years. "You better call the IRS about that." No, maybe you should.
posted by Miss Cellania at 1:45 PM on July 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


like no public option

That was exclusively Lieberman's fault and at that time he was still a Democrat.
posted by Talez at 1:50 PM on July 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


"Exclusively Lieberman" because they couldn't get Republican votes.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 1:56 PM on July 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why bother having a cabinet?

First, it's customary and more or less obligatory.

Second, it's for the sake of having a shit-ton of people to praise him, as recently happened when they went around the room and almost everyone took a turn kissing his ass. The despot-placating praise had the added benefit of coming from people with big, formerly respectable titles, which creates the illusion of pageantry.

When you have a worthless empty suit like Ben Carson praise you, that's just Ben Carson being a dipshit. When you can refer to him as a cabinet secretary, though, hey, you just got praised by a cabinet secretary!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:58 PM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Damn, Talez, you're right. That was too close a vote.
posted by Miss Cellania at 1:59 PM on July 1, 2017


"Exclusively Lieberman" because they couldn't get Republican votes.

I can't blame a Republican for being Republican or a strong opposition.

I can blame a Democrat for stabbing the party in the back at the most inopportune time.
posted by Talez at 2:06 PM on July 1, 2017 [15 favorites]


I can blame a Democrat for stabbing the party in the back at the most inopportune time.

I see you've met Joe Lieberman.
posted by mosk at 2:10 PM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


Stumbled across a great analysis/takedown of the NRA's latest propaganda hit. It's on Facebook, but it's public so I don't think you have to log in to see it

Mr. Feeny taught him well. (Rider Strong was the troubled best friend on Boy Meets World.)
posted by waitingtoderail at 2:37 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I can't blame a Republican for being Republican or a strong opposition.

Why not? Similar logic would excuse most any wicked behavior so long as it was done regularly and intentionally. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you can hardly blame my client for killing Mrs. Smith. After all, my client is a serial killer: what did you expect?"
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 2:38 PM on July 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


Publishing names, addresses, DOBs, partial SSNs, party affiliation, and voting history is about doxxing on an unfathomable scale.

Haven't been following this story... isn't that data freely available from most state Boards of Election? Apart from the SSNs? I know it was in Ohio.
posted by Coventry at 2:43 PM on July 1, 2017


Does anyone know if there is any coordinated effort to get grocery stores and department stores to stop selling the National Enquirer at the checkout?

If there isn't, let's start one. It's just pure pro-Trump propaganda any more, and it's especially offensive to display it in cities. If we can't get stores to stop selling it, at least demand that they not shove it in your face at checkout stands.
posted by msalt at 2:51 PM on July 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


isn't that data freely available

Yes, but the point is that just like doxxing, it's about the compilation and made-convenient nature of even scattered public information. It doesn't matter what's "out there" if YOU don't have it and can't compile it in a reasonably short enough time frame to refute his bullshit before the damage is done.
posted by ctmf at 2:52 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


That was exclusively Lieberman's fault and at that time he was still a Democrat.

No, at the time Lieberman was an Independent. He defeated Democrat Ned Lamont in 2006. He campaigned for McCain and Palin in 2008. The Obamacare vote was in 2010.
posted by JackFlash at 3:07 PM on July 1, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's hard because it doesn't seem like their agenda is to only manipulate the data per se. Publishing names, addresses, DOBs, partial SSNs, party affiliation, and voting history is about doxxing on an unfathomable scale.

Yes. And remember that whatever that "very distinguished" flaming bag of dogshit panel decides, the ONLY remedy is vigorous and unilateral use of voting software from Kobach's own corruption factory.

GOP "wins" again.
posted by petebest at 3:14 PM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


If there isn't, let's start one. It's just pure pro-Trump propaganda any more, and it's especially offensive to display it in cities. If we can't get stores to stop selling it, at least demand that they not shove it in your face at checkout stands.

Agreed. I sent an email to my local grocery store this morning saying that I would like them to stop stocking and selling it and that I thought about shopping elsewhere every time I saw it in the checkout line. But I wondered afterward if anyone had already organized such a protest. Do you know if there are grocery stores that already do not sell the Enquirer so that one could plausibly threaten to shop at such a place?
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 3:14 PM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


I have less of a problem with them selling it than with the prominent position it gets. I'd be just happy if the put it with all the other magazines and gave the space at the checkout counter to something less offensive.

I suspect that would also be less susceptible to cries of censorship as well.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 3:27 PM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


Jonathan Livengood,

Aldi does not sell magazines.
posted by Miss Cellania at 3:35 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


Let us briefly close our eyes and imagine if President Barack Obama went on an irrelevant, hatefully abusive multi-day Twitter spree, when he was supposed to be governing. Most people would be calling on him to resign, including many Democrats. With our president Donald Trump, it appears that some people have low standards. Mariana Trench low standards.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:49 PM on July 1, 2017 [65 favorites]


Why.

@realDonaldTrump
My use of social media is not Presidential - it’s MODERN DAY PRESIDENTIAL. Make America Great Again!

posted by Rust Moranis at 4:12 PM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


How does he have time for this? The President's time is usually scheduled to the minute, all day, every day.
posted by Justinian at 4:16 PM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


How does he have time for this?

I'm beginning to suspect that he's not actually doing his job.
posted by mrgoat at 4:18 PM on July 1, 2017 [146 favorites]


> I can't blame a Republican for being Republican or a strong opposition.

Why not? Similar logic would excuse most any wicked behavior so long as it was done regularly and intentionally. "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you can hardly blame my client for killing Mrs. Smith. After all, my client is a serial killer: what did you expect?"


As the frog said to the scorpion, "it's in my nature". Or, - you knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in.
posted by wilko at 4:20 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Fox News, so no attribution from me: 'Patriot' shoots himself in leg at Gettysburg

Dude accidentally shot himself over imaginary Antifa. Imagine the oopsies when the (seemingly inevitable) actual confrontation/incident comes.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:22 PM on July 1, 2017 [7 favorites]


it’s MODERN DAY PRESIDENTIAL.

...The modern period being only about 200 years old. Well done, you trailblazer you.
posted by Rykey at 4:30 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


How does he have time for this? The President's time is usually scheduled to the minute, all day, every day.

He's tweeted through a security briefing before, so I don't think a little thing like "scheduling" is going to stop him.
posted by dilaudid at 4:31 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


> Fox News, so no attribution from me: 'Patriot' shoots himself in leg at Gettysburg
A self-described "patriot" who went to Gettysburg National Military Park on Saturday following rumors that members of an alt-left group would be there to desecrate Confederal memorials, shot himself in the leg with his own revolver.
LOL
posted by tonycpsu at 4:32 PM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


I'd say anyone shot post that stupid ad has a right to sue the NRA, and I'd be generous and include this jackass on that.
posted by Artw at 4:44 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


'Patriot' shoots himself in leg at Gettysburg

It's like 1863 all over again.
posted by peeedro at 4:45 PM on July 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


THE PRESIDENT: This is infinity here. It could be infinity. We don’t really don’t know. But it could be. It has to be something -- but it could be infinity, right?

Oh god, the look on Aldren's face.
posted by octothorpe at 5:08 PM on July 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


to desecrate Confederal memorials

...to gild refined gold, to paint the lily, to throw a perfume on the violet, and so forth.

or rather, you can vandalize those things and I dare say you shouldn't, it isn't nice. wouldn't want any angry ghost battalions haunting the imaginary "alt-left" clubhouse. but you can't desecrate them. that's only for sacred things. I should like to explain this to that gentleman just to see if I could do it in such a way as to make him angry enough to shoot his other leg in a fine spirit of indignation.

that isn't nice either.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:41 PM on July 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


Do you know if there are grocery stores that already do not sell the Enquirer so that one could plausibly threaten to shop at such a place?

- It looks like Whole Foods does not carry the National Enquirer

- some online commenters (but not journalists) say that American Media actually pays stores to carry and position the rag

- Publix at least temporarily put the NE behind the white porn-obscurers after complaints last fall. They indicated that the volume of complaints on either side would drive their long-term decision.

- Some people accidentally take out a NE or other magazine and accidentally put it back in front of NEs (backwards) so as to hide their covers

- a Berkeley op-ed says a Safeway there removed Nat'l Enquirer after complaints (anecdata)

- there is a petition on change.org that only has 253 signatures for Kroger and Safeway to remove them

- that petition lists the customer service # for Safeway as 1 (877) 258-2799

- Kroger Co Customer Service (incl Fred Meyer's), 1 (877) 258-2799
posted by msalt at 5:44 PM on July 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


I shop at a Winco several times a month and saw its weekly parade of Clinton hit-pieces last summer.

Clinton lost 3 of the "Blue Wall" states -- 46 EVs -- by 77,000 votes, which means if 39,000 Trump voters had voted for Clinton in these 3 states, Clinton would have won the EC.

I fully believe the continual NE attacks posted at damn near every hoi-polloi checkstand in the USA put Trump in the WH.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 5:56 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


Heywood Mogroot III: I fully believe the continual NE attacks posted at damn near every hoi-polloi checkstand in the USA put Trump in the WH.

And if supermarket tabloids aren't your style, TMZ on TV and the web has it covered:

The inside story of how TMZ quietly became America’s most potent pro-Trump media outlet
posted by bluecore at 6:07 PM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh boy... President Vicente Fox of Mexico is back with a video with some advice for Trump before he starts a war. I laughed my ass off.
posted by spitbull at 6:10 PM on July 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


TMZ is of course part of Time Warner, the same company as CNN. And Fox News is part of the same Murdoch empire as the Wall Street Journal, currently doing some heavy lifting on investigating high crimes and misdemeanors. Interesting times!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:14 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


The FB page of that PA "patriot" includes a bunch of wingnut government=tyranny meme postings. Of course after he shot himself his life was saved by government employees. 20 bucks says he's constitutionally incapable of seeing the irony.
posted by Lyme Drop at 6:22 PM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


Do you have a dog? One that poops? Like, from its butt? If so, you might be interested in Donald Trump poop bags.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:28 PM on July 1, 2017 [9 favorites]


Update. McCaskill's schedule is out. 10 town halls in 2 days.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:56 PM on July 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


Hey, listen, insisting that retail outlets don't sell particular newspapers is not a strong idea.

The message is good or it is not good--we have a better message and are stronger than them or we are not, but it is a weak look to insist that magazines nearly everyone recognizes are trivial should be pulled out of supermarket lanes. I don't even care if they're not trivial.

That is censorship. If you are cool with it--great, I guess, but own it. Censorship is a binary proposition: Yes, I'm in, or No, thanks.

Make sure you're on the side you want to be on.

This is a very clear free speech deal.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:02 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


We're not an arm of the government, it's not a free speech deal. It's using market forces same as any other boycott. I don't think it will be in any way effective but that's a different argument.

You're essentially arguing against the very concept of boycotts.
posted by Justinian at 7:05 PM on July 1, 2017 [90 favorites]


That is censorship.
What? No. It's a boycott.
posted by xyzzy at 7:08 PM on July 1, 2017 [31 favorites]


Nthing the declaration that a boycott it NOT censorship. Of course, there are places I can shop that are Enquirer-free; but also, let me know who advertises in the National Enquirer so I can boycott THEM.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:10 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's only fair that supermarkets stop selling The Nation and Mother Jones at checkout lines too.

Oh wait.😉
posted by spitbull at 7:13 PM on July 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


What? No. It's a boycott.


I'm clear on the difference between commercial pressure and legal pressure.

I am operating on an ethical sense of 'how do I, personally, feel about obscuring the repellent beliefs of others' and for myself, personally, I do not want to obscure the repellent beliefs of others.

I want their repellent beliefs to die in the sun.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:18 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


I want their repellent beliefs to die in the sun.
One way to make repellent beliefs die in the sun is to expose them to the world and then refuse to host them by not advertising in their content, selling their content, or teaching their content. Which is basically what a boycott is. I mean, sign me up for anything anyone is doing to break the stranglehold Texas has on science education nationwide or to drown Breitbart in a sea of profit loss statements.
posted by xyzzy at 7:23 PM on July 1, 2017 [30 favorites]


You're essentially arguing against the very concept of boycotts.


Noooooo. I'm talking about the press.

I guess: ok, I'll boycott, let's say, Chick Fil A (or whatever it is), because I think they are a bunch of homophobes. But I think that's different than boycotting Barnes and Noble because they carry the Enquirer. Or Google because they return Brietbart. Or whatever.

I'm sorry, I'm a little depleted right now for a variety of reasons and I'd otherwise be a little stronger on the argument and I genuinely apologize for not backing it up in a stronger fashion. Please accept my weak ass argument as sincere.

To sum up, I think that fierce arguments made by smart people ultimately win and those arguments look meager if you take down weak arguments climbing the summit.

For a variety of reasons I intimately know the difference between censorship and private impulses and I apologize for my initial post which conflated them. Censorship is a function of the powerful.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:29 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


No platforming/boycotts is the only way to keep marginalized people safe from these repellent beliefs, because as we've learned by the rise of the alt-kiddies from 4-chan, giving people places to share these kinds of believes leads to recruitment and innocent people getting hurt. Sunshine doesn't work on this kind of rancid hate. Think about how many more woman would be safer from swatting and rape threats if a long time ago someone somehow had led a successful boycott of 4-chan or 8-chan? The entire concept of the alt-right might not exist!

No platforming/boycotting IS NOT censorship.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:31 PM on July 1, 2017 [17 favorites]


Iiiiii'm not sure I'd call the National Enquirer "the press" to be honest.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:33 PM on July 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


Think about how many more woman would be safer from swatting and rape threats if a long time ago someone somehow had led a successful boycott of 4-chan or 8-chan?

I'm not digging down on this argument but what 4chan boycott do you imagine made a financial difference to 4chan? Toyota pulled the sponsorship? If they pay their server costs month to month I bet it's a Yay.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:43 PM on July 1, 2017


I want their repellent beliefs to die in the sun.

Their beliefs aren't on sale at the supermarket. Lies in service of those beliefs are on sale at the supermarket. Allowing that deceit to go unchallenged doesn't really do anything to expose the underlying beliefs.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:44 PM on July 1, 2017 [10 favorites]


Falling to market forces when a number of shoppers significant enough to be influential on a merchant's decisions decide to protest your anachronistic rag *is* "dying in the sun."
posted by spitbull at 7:45 PM on July 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


Allowing that deceit to go unchallenged doesn't really do anything to expose the underlying beliefs.


Then we are here to challenge them, and it is our purpose to expose them.

Things that are unspoken, unsaid, unheard, have enormous power.

Undermining that shit is our highest calling at this moment.

I do not think undermining it happens in the shadows.

I acknowledge that I should not have used the word 'censorship' which has a bureaucratic implication.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:51 PM on July 1, 2017


Also, I do just want to say that while these are my opinions, I'm not jazzed about fighting about them and consider the people here on the side of Things That Are Right while we may disagree about this particular thing.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 7:56 PM on July 1, 2017 [4 favorites]


That is censorship. If you are cool with it--great, I guess, but own it. Censorship is a binary proposition: Yes, I'm in, or No, thanks.

I struggled with this, but it clicked for me (like a lot of things, thanks to metafilter) when I figured out the difference between speech and platforming. What follows is my own moral guideline for this issue, but it's one that helps me deal with issues like this.

- Censorship is when I attempt to punish you for an opinion in a way entirely unrelated to you having thoughts. That's when I jail you for insulting the king. I punish you in a way that fundamentally harms your ability to function as a member of society. Free speech rights, I believe, are meant to guarantee this. I am fundamentally against laws like Germany's banning of Nazi symbolism because I believe this.
- De-/Platforming is when I give you an amplifier or attempt to take it away. That's when I ask the ISP to shut down your website as incitement, or I donate to your political campaign, etc. I believe part of my right to free speech is to think a certain viewpoint is harmful and shouldn't be repeated, and that I have the right to let others know that belief. Doing so en masse is not censorship.

You have the right to speak without fear of being punished, not to be guaranteed an audience. Platforming or deplatforming certain beliefs is absolutely an issue of public safety and welfare, and government absolutely needs to be involved in regulating it, because it can be weaponized and used to hurt people.
posted by saysthis at 7:59 PM on July 1, 2017 [22 favorites]


I shared this Wired story about the disastrous Alex Jones interview before. One of the points it makes is that there is evidence that repeating lies, even to debunk them, propagates the lies. Thus, sunlight doesn't reveal the truth - it just makes sure the lie is more brightly lit.

There is a difference between unpopular speech ("the 9/11 pilots were not cowards") and lies (recent NE headline: "Hillary Flees Country"). Lies deserve no coverage and no visibility. If you champion the truth, see yourself against those that traffic in lies by fighting to make sure that lies remain as unseen and unheard as possible.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:03 PM on July 1, 2017 [46 favorites]


Hit send too soon.

So while "I am fundamentally against laws like Germany's banning of Nazi symbolism," I am also fundamentally FOR a regulatory mechanism and private editorial policies that allow me to say, "This speech is harmful and should be removed from platforms of a certain size/influence."

Also, Citizens United is about platforming, not free speech, and the Supreme Court is therefore super dumb. Thank you and goodnight.
posted by saysthis at 8:05 PM on July 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Lawrence Douglas and Alexander George, Guardian: A modest proposal on healthcare: abolish it completely
What are the practical consequences of our proposal? The astute reader will no doubt ask whether this proposal means that those who are not wealthy will sicken and perish from treatable diseases. The answer is clearly, yes. And yet much will depend on the choices that our fellow citizens make.

We expect that even less-affluent Americans will choose to treat potentially life-threatening bacterial infections with antibiotics, a highly effective and generally affordable remedy. When it comes to more expensive treatments – such as dialysis for those suffering from kidney failure – many families will no doubt conclude that the cost is simply too great and exceeds the anticipated benefit. A perfectly rational choice in our minds.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:19 PM on July 1, 2017 [6 favorites]


Eric Geller and Cory Bennett, Politico: Trump voter-fraud panel’s data request a gold mine for hackers, experts warn
Digital security experts say the commission’s request would centralize and lay bare a valuable cache of information that cyber criminals could use for identity theft scams — or that foreign spies could leverage for disinformation schemes.

“It is beyond stupid,” said Nicholas Weaver, a computer science professor at the University of California at Berkeley.

“The bigger the purse, the more effort folks would spend to get at it,” said Joe Hall, chief technologist at the Center for Democracy and Technology, a digital advocacy group. “And in this case, this is such a high-profile and not-so-competent tech operation that we're likely to see the hacktivists and pranksters take shots at it.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:24 PM on July 1, 2017 [14 favorites]


Trump voter-fraud panel’s data request a gold mine for hackers, experts warn

Experts? The very fact that they recommended emailing the data - if one had no idea who these fuckers were - is recognizably stupid shit to anyone this side of remembering what a modem sounded like.

Not to mention that besides the obvious boondoggle of Kobach's shitty software they'll inevitably recommend, the fact that they *want* to publish everybody's voting history and personal data is dropping the flag on personal attacks. You just know this was their first and only idea.
posted by petebest at 8:33 PM on July 1, 2017 [11 favorites]


In a previous thread, somebody posted this Nina Burleigh Newsweek article, Trump Effect Inspires Radical Christians In Military, which discusses how fundamentalist Christian military personnel are harassing colleagues of different faiths and, also, of Christian beliefs that aren't Dominionist Christian enough. I subscribed to Newsweek and donated to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation (MRFF), the org that's fighting for the harassment victims.

Now Jay Sekulow is going after the MRFF founder, Mikey Weinstein, for what Sekulow considers to be anti-Christian, unconstitutional, anti-"religious freedom" attacks (by "religious freedom" he means, of course, the unlimited freedom of his idea of "Christians" to trample on everybody else's rights).
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 8:50 PM on July 1, 2017 [21 favorites]


Mod note: Deleted several; I feel like we've covered the ground on censorship vs. boycotts, and drunk posting is definitely not needed in politics threads.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:18 PM on July 1, 2017 [20 favorites]


I just finished Gundam 00. JFC it seems rather apt for this year in America.
posted by Talez at 9:21 PM on July 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Lawrence Douglas and Alexander George, Guardian: A modest proposal on healthcare: abolish it completely

Oh good I RTFA and it's satire.

From the description I thought The Guardian went flat out fucking bonkers.
posted by Talez at 9:26 PM on July 1, 2017 [5 favorites]


“Since the signing of the declaration of independence 241 years ago, America always affirmed that liberty comes from our creator. Our rights are given to us by God, and no earthly force can ever take those rights away” [via The Guardian]
Rallies and statements like this as well as the attacks on the MRFF seem like the factional battle lines have been being drawn. It feels more like when they'll mobilise than if.
posted by michswiss at 9:29 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh good I RTFA and it's satire.

Well yes.
posted by Pink Frost at 10:00 PM on July 1, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's the Immodest Proposals you have to take seriously.

That's why Trump cannot be satirized. No modesty.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:06 PM on July 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


How the fuck do people like LePage win elections... Glad you asked! LePage won the governorship twice with less than 50% of the vote...

The first time he didn't even get 38% of the vote, with not one but two Independent candidates in the race. Forget about the Democrat – if the Independent candidates had combined their total LePage would have lost by about 19,000 votes.

Only twice in the last 11 elections (going back 40+ years), by the way, has a Maine governor gotten more than 50% of the vote. Both of those were re-election campaigns, including the 1998 re-election of Governor (now U.S. Senator) Angus King, who in his first try did even worse than LePage, winning with only 35.4%of the vote. In that 1994 contest, King (an Independent) took advantage of votes being split four ways, including for a Green Party candidate. The Republican hopeful that year, who came in third, currently is Maine's other U.S. Senator, Susan Collins.

p.s. Colin Woodard at Politico in 2014: "How did America's Craziest Governor Get Re-Elected?"
posted by LeLiLo at 10:21 PM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


I read an article a few months ago that complicated my thinking about boycotts, Fragmented State, Pluralist Society: How Liberal Institutions Promote Fear. Here's the most relevant bit:
"Consider the following statistics. In the Red Scare of 1919-20, the American government put some ten thousand men and women into jails and detention centers and deported about six hundred. During the McCarthy years, by contrast, liberal limitations upon the state ensured that no more than two hundred people spent time behind bars, and only a very few were deported. Yet McCarthyism lasted longer, affected more individuals, inflicted more permanent damage, and was in the long run a greater influence on American politics. Why? Many factors were at work—not least of which, the Cold War—but one of them was the greater involvement of civil society, particularly the workplace, during McCarthyism. For though the government directly penalized only a small number of individuals, anywhere from one to two of every five American workers was subject to a loyalty investigation at work."
There then follows an interesting but rather lengthy description of how blacklisting during the McCarthy era worked. It talks about Red Channels, a magazine put out by former FBI officials naming alleged communists. A prominent NY grocer by the name of Johnson lead a group of grocers who threatened to label products in their stores as communist-supporting, if they advertised on radio shows associated with people named as communists by Red Channels. "So powerful was the combined force of Red Channels and Johnson that one talent agent in the radio industry claimed, 'I never hear about the FBI or the Attorney General—all I ever hear about is Red Channels and this Johnson of Syracuse and the other characters who have made a business out of this thing.'"

I'm still generally pro-boycott, especially as a way to show solidarity with unions, but I think it's important to recognize that like most tools they can be used effectively for regressive as well as progressive purposes.

(Mods, feel free to delete this if it's too close to rehashing the earlier boycotting debate.)
posted by galaxy rise at 10:32 PM on July 1, 2017 [8 favorites]


I haven't been to an improv show in months. I used to go all the time, and then the election happened and I stay home nights reading news incessantly and hating everyone. But I spent all day shopping out of town and was returning around the time the shows start, and it was on my way home, so I went.

(Bonus: I found out where certain college alumni from my school have a "massage parlor" that isn't one!)

At one moment, two guys are sitting there silently doing a dinner scene. One of them is glaring at the audience and giving side-eye glare to the other guy. He forcefully takes bites of food in his partner's face. He forcefully takes a drink in his partner's face, glaring the whole time. The other one just sat there uncomfortable and fidgeting.

And then someone comes in and says, "Uh, Mr. President, Madam First Lady?" And SCENE.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:03 AM on July 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


The Declaration of Independence never specifies who the creator is supposed to be, or even if everyone gets the same one.

The closest it comes is by referring to Nature's God. Sounds pretty hippy dippy to me.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:45 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh good I RTFA and it's satire.

From the description I thought The Guardian went flat out fucking bonkers.


They publish some downright weird stuff under Comment is Free.
posted by Artw at 1:11 AM on July 2, 2017


Tweet from Neal Lindsay:

You're at a switch track.

Someone dies if you pull the switch.

But if you *don't*, a wealthy person will have the same taxes as last year.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:20 AM on July 2, 2017 [126 favorites]


Maryland still hasn't refused to hand over the voter data. On Monday I'm going to call Larry Hogan's office and say that if (when!) criminals use the data for identity theft, he's going to find himself a defendant in a class action suit.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:16 AM on July 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


I think it's clear that what Maine desperately needs is a runoff system if no one gets over 50%.

michswiss Rallies and statements like this as well as the attacks on the MRFF seem like the factional battle lines have been being drawn. It feels more like when they'll mobilise than if.

That too.

But I also keep noticing that they use the same language to talk about freedom and rights that they use to talk about the climate. It's all controlled by God, it all came from God. I don't think it's really paranoid at this point to think that they'll start attacking rights using some variation on the "God will protect the environment" line they use when attacking the environment.

What are you some filthy Commie liberal who wants Big Government "protecting" your rights? Rights come from God, if anyone tries to take them away God will take care of it. So don't worry about us abolishing the 1st Amendment, k?
posted by sotonohito at 5:23 AM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think it's clear that what Maine desperately needs is a runoff system if no one gets over 50%.

We passed a law in November to move to ranked choice voting for Governor (as well as a number of other offices).

Following a court challenge, the Maine Supreme Court declared in May that ranked choice violates the Maine Constitution.

So then the legislature tried to repeal the law, but couldn't get the votes for repeal.

Yesterday, the Maine Republican's budget proposal (the so called LePage demand list) included repeal of ranked choice voting as a condition for him to sign any budget passed (even though its not a budget item), but they later took it out.

So, what needs to happen is that we need a Constitutional change to make ranked choice a thing in Maine, which should be straightforward, except it won't be. The Dems hold the House and will refuse to repeal it, the R's hold the Senate and will continue to block Constitutional changes from there. Which will, I'm sure, lead to court challenges if nobody gets 50% in 2018.
posted by anastasiav at 5:55 AM on July 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Callum Borchers, WaPo: The White House is playing a game of chicken with the media
It seems clear, at this point, that the White House would prefer not to hold regular press briefings. But President Trump and his aides do not want to be the ones to pull the plug. They want journalists to do it.

The White House is playing a game of chicken with the media, making the briefing situation so untenable that reporters might bail first. If successful, Team Trump will achieve its desired outcome while avoiding the blame.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:04 AM on July 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


About that Texas Supreme Court case on same-sex marriage rights:

The case — and link to the actual opinion — is Pidgeon v. Turner, No. 15-0688 (Tex. March 1, 2017).

(Journalists: please always cite and link the original source of whatever legal / scientific / etc thing you're writing about. It's really annoying when you just describe it and I have to hunt it down to find out how badly you mischaracterized.)


The article linked by OP, in my opinion, seriously mischaracterizes the ruling. So here's my own summary. (Page numbers are to original PDF linked above.)


Background

From 2001–2005, both Houston and Texas passed laws making it illegal to give benefits to same-sex couples. (In particular as relevant here, this means health insurance for employees' same-sex spouse, like they do for employees' opposite-sex spouses.)

In 2013, SCOTUS ruled in United States v. Windsor, 570 U.S. 12, 133 S.Ct. 2675 (2013) that same sex couples have various due process rights. (That case was about taxes for a same-sex widow.) On the basis of Windsor, Houston's attorney and mayor (Turner) started same-sex couple insurance benefits.

Pidgeon (a Houston taxpayer/voter) promptly sued to stop this, because it violates city & state law. p. 5. The trial court agreed with Pidgeon, and issued a temporary injunction prohibiting Houston from continuing to give such benefits. p. 7.

The mayor/city made an immediate ("interlocutory") appeal (to the state appeals court). p. 7.

In June 2015, while the appeal was pending, SCOTUS ruled in Obergefell v. Hodges, 135 S. Ct. 2584 (2015) that same sex couples are entitled to marriage. In July 2015, the 5th Circuit (which includes Texas) ruled similarly in De Leon v. Abbott, 791 F.3d 619 (5th Cir. 2015).

Both sides gave supplemental briefs to the appeals court. In late July 2015, the appeals court agreed with Houston, and vacated the temporary injunction, permitting the city to continue giving same-sex couple insurance benefits, on the basis of Obergefell and De Leon, and told the trial court to continue the case "consistent with" De Leon and Obergefell. p. 8–9.

Hodges promptly appealed that to the Texas Supreme Court. p. 9.


Ruling

The Texas Supreme Court ruled that:

1. 5th Circuit decisions aren't binding on the trial court (reason is too technical for tl;dr), so the appeals court shouldn't have told it to be "consistent with" De Leon, but only to take it as informative advice. p. 12–14.

2. While Pidgeon apparently wants Houston to "claw back" the money it spent on same-sex couples' insurance (i.e. make the recipients pay back the city for the cost), that's not what the trial court ruled, it wasn't on appeal, so it'll have to be dealt with by the trial court on remand. Also, that it's questionable whether Pidgeon even has standing to ask for this, but they're not ruling on that either until the trial court hears it. p. 15–17.

3. The court of appeals was wrong to decide the issue in light of intervening precedent (Obergefell and De Leon) when the trial court had never been briefed on that. p. 18–21. The court of appeals decision doesn't preclude Pidgeon from re-arguing the issue. p. 14–15. (Technicalities re reversal vs. vacatur omitted.)

4. tl;dr: All of the trial court's orders (i.e. including the injunction), and the court of appeals' ruling, go away. Everyone has to go back to the trial court, and have that court decide the issue over again based on intervening precedent.

It's back to the status it was in before Pidgeon sued, i.e. the city is not enjoined from continuing to give benefits same-sex spouses, but the legality of doing so is not decided.


IMHO

I think the Texas Supreme Court ruled correctly on this.

(I'm ignoring its dicta talking about how same-sex marriage is new and maybe not a good idea and so forth; just talking about the actual holding. For the record, I'm queer, my long-term boyfriend's gay, and I support same-sex marriage. This is my opinion about the legalities of the case, not about the immediate policy impact.)

Appeals courts should not be ruling on issues that the lower courts didn't have a chance to rule on. The correct course of action for the appeals court would have been to simply vacate the injunction (without a decision on its merits) and remand for further proceedings in light of intervening precedent.

Once the parties argue it out in the trial court, and it makes a decision, then the appeals court has something to review.

I would guess that the trial court will have to rule in favor of Turner / Houston, and hold the city & state laws prohibiting same-sex spousal benefits unconstitutional, given Obergefell.

However, it's not a 100% obvious conclusion. I can see ways to interpret Obergefell as making a more limited ruling which still allows states leeway to discriminate in how they deal with "extra" benefits like this that go beyond just being married per se. (I don't agree with them; I just think they're not absolutely precluded by the current case law.)


tl;dr: chill out. The Texas Supreme Court did not rule that it's OK to discriminate against same-sex couples. It did not say Hodges is right about the merits. It's a fairly limited, technical decision about appellate procedure.

It just said, basically, "the law has changed since this got appealed, so we're going to make it as if the injunction and appeal never happened; go back to the trial court and argue it over again".


Watch the case, to see what happens on remand.


PS Here's my legal resume, for credibility. But really, I strongly recommend you go actually read the Texas Supreme Court's opinion and decide for yourself. Most journalists are, sadly, really bad about accurately portraying issues in law and science with any degree of nuance; IMHO, the OP link is an example of that.
posted by saizai at 6:28 AM on July 2, 2017 [43 favorites]


The president just tweeted an animated gif of himself body-slamming and beating Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania, with CNN's logo superimposed over Vince's head. Yes, really.

Call it trolling or a joke or unserious if you want, but he's actively promoting violence against the media.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:28 AM on July 2, 2017 [72 favorites]


On Monday I'm going to call Larry Hogan's office and say that if (when!) criminals use the data for identity theft, he's going to find himself a defendant in a class action suit.

Sadly I think that qualified immunity is just as useful for protecting bad data choices as it is trigger happy cops.
posted by phearlez at 6:32 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


But I also keep noticing that they use the same language to talk about freedom and rights that they use to talk about the climate. It's all controlled by God, it all came from God.

let's test that theory of theirs out

find "god" - results - 0
posted by pyramid termite at 6:39 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


In light of the recent real life body slamming of a reporter by a fellow party member, I can't see how posting that gif could be passed off as just a joke or defended by anyone in their right mind. America has a fucking internet troll for a president.
posted by p3t3 at 6:40 AM on July 2, 2017 [62 favorites]


The Declaration of Independence never specifies who the creator is supposed to be, or even if everyone gets the same one.

The closest it comes is by referring to Nature's God. Sounds pretty hippy dippy to me.


MY creator was my Mom. ( XKCD #54 FTW! )
posted by mikelieman at 6:52 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


America has a fucking internet troll for a president.

Whom we should ignore.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:52 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


(Please maybe not start the "we should ignore him" vs. "we need to pay attention to what's going on" thing again? Please?)
posted by agregoli at 6:56 AM on July 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


you know, i was doing just fine having the time of my life ignoring donald trump until he ran for and became the president of the united states

you can't ignore trolls when they're the fucking president
posted by pyramid termite at 7:04 AM on July 2, 2017 [68 favorites]


Yes the "internet troll" analogy is flawed as most trolls don't have nukes.
posted by spitbull at 7:04 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Most journalists are, sadly, really bad about accurately portraying issues in law and science with any degree of nuance

And also are more than happy to report on bog standard procedural things as if they mean anything. "Attorneys for man found holding machete while soaking in bathtub of blood filed a motion to dismiss today despite preponderance of evidence." Well, yes.
posted by phearlez at 7:07 AM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


That said it's always a mordant chuckle to revisit (with a horrified shudder) a post title seen on Reddit's trumpian underside on the day after the election at times like these: "OMG we did it guys, we elected a meme."
posted by spitbull at 7:07 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


You can't ignore the president. He's setting policy and driving the political direction of our country. It's a stupid suggestion.

The best way to combat narcissism is to disempower it. The best way to disempower it is to expose it and frame it in its negative, crazy glory, so that people understand how negative and crazy it is. Additionally, a vocal voice of reason with real solutions will exacerbate this process because it provides an explicit contrast between normal and crazy.
posted by Autumnheart at 7:07 AM on July 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


heh, spitbull - you never took part in the great meow/hell flame club/hipcrime war of usenet - hipcrime NUKED usenet for months
posted by pyramid termite at 7:07 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Making it all the more ironic to think of DARPA coming up with TCP/IP as a way to have a network survive a nuclear first strike.
posted by spitbull at 7:10 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Rust Moranis: "The president just tweeted an animated gif of himself body-slamming and beating Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania, with CNN's logo superimposed over Vince's head. Yes, really.

Call it trolling or a joke or unserious if you want, but he's actively promoting violence against the media.
"

No matter how horrible, venal and stupid I think he is, he manages to be even worse. He's literally breaking my brain as it tries and fails to understand how we managed to elect such complete idiot.
posted by octothorpe at 7:16 AM on July 2, 2017 [37 favorites]


You can't ignore the president.

TFA says ignore his antics and instead pay attention to what those around him are doing. Seems like good advice to me. /done
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:24 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


phearlez: And also are more than happy to report on bog standard procedural things as if they mean anything.

Ugh, yes. I've even seen articles that did not understand that a proposed order is not, in fact, an act of the court, but just part of the motion. (Most courts require it to be submitted for their convenience & as a "give me a tl;dr of what will make you happy".) Result: news sources breathlessly reporting that a court had granted a crazy subpoena that would affect a lot of people, when it was just a request. (One that was later denied.)
posted by saizai at 7:29 AM on July 2, 2017


People are welcome to ignore the President in posts that aren't tagged "POTUS45" imho
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:39 AM on July 2, 2017 [54 favorites]


From Friday's New York Times editorial: Can the etiquette of professional wrestling and reality television truly pass as acceptable for the Oval Office?

guess we'll find out huh
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 AM on July 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Does the President make his own GIFs for tweeting, or does his son-in-law do that, too?
posted by notyou at 7:52 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apparently this one came from /r/The_Donald member, HanAssholeSolo
posted by p3t3 at 7:55 AM on July 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


America has a fucking internet troll for a president.

A troll who definitely would rather we talk about anything other than those Wall Street Journal articles about Mike Flynn's alleged ties to a GOP oppo researcher who tried to contact Russian hackers over Hillary Clinton's lost e-mails.

Meanwhile, a House bill to create panel that could remove Trump from office quietly picks up Democratic support. The proposed Oversight Commission on Presidential Capacity now has over two dozen House members backing it. The bill's sponsor believes that the 25th Amendment explicitly authorizes a body with the legal authority to declare the President unfit and promote the Vice President to Acting President.

The Madness of King Donald, anyone?
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:56 AM on July 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


guys i finally igured out who trump reminds me of

space moose
posted by entropicamericana at 7:56 AM on July 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


this gif and the mika / joe thing have been a great distraction from the most damning news of the last week and the media has taken the bait.
posted by localhuman at 7:56 AM on July 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


guys i finally igured out who trump reminds me of

space moose


Clobberin' Time has come for us all
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:58 AM on July 2, 2017


The pressed ham with gravy was modern day presidential.
posted by peeedro at 8:00 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


A troll who definitely would rather we talk about anything other than those Wall Street Journal articles about Mike Flynn's alleged ties to a GOP oppo researcher who tried to contact Russian hackers
Trump has brilliantly changed the subject from “Is he a Russian intelligence asset” to “Is he a dangerously violent lunatic?"
— @davidfrum
posted by octobersurprise at 8:04 AM on July 2, 2017 [71 favorites]


Putting in my obligatory statement that it's better/more interesting to focus on the actions of people and organizations opposed to the current nominal head of the executive branch, rather than hand-wringing about what a piece of shit he is. Whatshisname in the oval office has chosen to focus on performing amateur psyops and running a propaganda campaign rather than on the tasks conventionally associated with the job he's holding; as such his actions can only be interpreted as attempts to inspire his side and demoralize ours. If, like me, you find exposure to his propaganda genuinely demoralizing, look away. Read serious analysis if you find that inspiring (I do), read our side's propaganda if you find that inspiring (I do), call your senators and representatives, go to protest actions, and organize small groups to plot further acts of resistance.

If you've figured out a way to turn reading their propaganda into a real act of resistance (say, you're good at messaging and can effectively repackage their propaganda into a format that's inspirational for us and demoralizing for them), read their propaganda. Otherwise, it is wiser to ignore it.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:14 AM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump has brilliantly changed the subject from “Is he a Russian intelligence asset” to “Is he a dangerously violent lunatic?"


No reason he can't be both.
posted by darkstar at 8:17 AM on July 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Here's to hoping the media and public embrace "why not both?" and talk about the dangerously violent lunatic working as a Russian asset designed to sew chaos.

The trolling is distracting, but I'm not sure it's working in his favor. It's creating a visceral reaction which even Republicans can't ignore. While the drips of the leaks, and slow-ish pace of the investigation, doesn't produce the same horror in the public.

If Trump could just keep his head down, they could get stuff done and possibly even survive the investigation. But being consistently unhinged means when the investigation blows open (if it ever does) then it will hit much harder. And being so chaotic means there could be a successful attempt to kick him out even if the investigation doesn't prove fatal.
posted by honestcoyote at 8:19 AM on July 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


Some version of "why not both" occurs in each of the hundreds of tweets below Frum's quip.

That is a failure to grasp the rhetorical trope Frum is using, which precisely says "why not both?" by mocking the pretense that he could somehow help himself by setting the house on fire to hide the termite damage.
posted by spitbull at 8:20 AM on July 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


p3t3: "Apparently this one came from /r/The_Donald member, HanAssholeSolo"

Tomorrow Trump nominates HanAssholeSolo as Ambassador to Germany and the Senate furrows their brows, mumbles something about "it being a troubling development" but approves him anyway.
posted by octothorpe at 8:20 AM on July 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


"How did we end up with a dangerously violent lunatic? Russia!"

(And a multitude of failings of the American character magnified my a multitude of failings in American political and media systems, but Russia is in there too)
posted by Artw at 8:21 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm still mildly bemused that people are losing their shit over the Flynn/Russia email story. Not that it isn't completely damning and in any plausible timeline would have already dislodged 45, but the man himself asked Russia to do it on live television.

So, yeah. What's left?
posted by Devonian at 8:21 AM on July 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


That is a failure to grasp the rhetorical trope

Failure to grasp a subtle rhetorical trope? On Twitter?

I may have just shattered my monocle.
posted by box at 8:22 AM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Except not that subtle. The trope is simple
Irony. /poeticsnerd
posted by spitbull at 8:25 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm still mildly bemused that people are losing their shit over the Flynn/Russia email story

Asian doing something or expecting something to happen? I dunno - we figured out Noscow Mike's deal way before the election, and as you say it's not like any of this isn't blatantly obvious, and yet...
posted by Artw at 8:26 AM on July 2, 2017


Y'down wit OCPC?
Ya you know me

Capacity
posted by petebest at 8:42 AM on July 2, 2017


today is the day Donald Trump became President. shitposting is legal precedent now. President Harris will not have the mandate to launch the nuclear strike on Russia in 2025 until she tweets a gif of her giving David Frum a noogie
posted by indubitable at 8:47 AM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Any chance Trump is now trying to be removed? He'll never quit voluntarily, but getting kicked out makes him the victim, which is a comfortable place for Trump to blather in righteous indignation, stage comebacks and retain his followers. Maybe all of this pandering to the base (e.g., ignoring the cabinet's advice re:trade wars, etc.) is simply to preserve the audience for the original plan to launch TrumpTV.
posted by carmicha at 9:11 AM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]



Topher Spiro "1: ALERT: McConnell just sent a revised bill to CBO. They’re close to a deal. This is CODE RED."
2: Vote expected in mid-July. Republican staff reportedly told lobbyists “The store is open”—meaning they think they can buy off moderates.
3: If these moderates don’t feel the heat over recess, guess what? They’ll cave in no time. Remember how weak Cassidy was?
4: This revised bill is probably McConnell’s last shot. He has no time for CBO to score one after this. EVERYTHING RIDES ON THIS.
5: Happy Fourth! Protesting Trumpcare this week is the pinnacle of democracy and patriotism 🇺🇸

Links to Catlin Owens, Axios; Senate asks for CBO score with, without Cruz proposal
Senate Republicans have asked the Congressional Budget Office to analyze Sen. Ted Cruz's proposal for further health insurance deregulation, and they've asked for one estimate of a health care bill that includes his changes and one that doesn't, according to a GOP aide familiar with the discussions.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:14 AM on July 2, 2017 [43 favorites]


> Any chance Trump is now trying to be removed?

Zero.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:15 AM on July 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


but when someone who has never done their own taxes complains about the complexity of taxes,

They don't mean doing their taxes. They mean they have to jump through a bunch of annoying hoops, all this structuring and offshore accounts and learning the right fictional stories to avoid taxes, then remembering to stick to those stories, defending against investigations...

They want to simplify that. All this pretense of rich people paying taxes is wasted time and money. And do you know how much investigating tax fraud costs? Just make it ok to not pay anything. Problem solved. /s
posted by ctmf at 9:35 AM on July 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


I mean, if you start with "Rich People Are Not Going To Pay Taxes, One Way Or Another" as an axiom not to be questioned, then making the law align with that makes a certain perverse sense.
posted by ctmf at 9:38 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I mean, if you start with "Rich People Are Not Going To Pay Taxes, One Way Or Another" as an axiom not to be questioned, then making the law align with that makes a certain perverse sense.

if rich people are going to flout the intention of the law no matter what, then it would follow that there should be no more rich people...
posted by indubitable at 9:45 AM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I took a lot of hallucinogens this weekend and came back to Earth just in time to see this WWE video?
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 9:52 AM on July 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


You've barely dropped your bean and have yet to peak, Donald Trump Sex Nightmare.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:57 AM on July 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Any chance Trump is now trying to be removed?

Put every other aspect of this aside and ask "is this a strategy that looks at consequences more than 72 hours into the future?" If the answer is yes then it's not likely something Trump is doing on purpose.
posted by phearlez at 9:58 AM on July 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


Trump's trying to distract with his media-figure squabbles for sure, but he's also doing another thing - setting up so that any negative media reporting on him can be characterized as petty retaliation. Oh, the Flynn stuff, the media hates me, says all kinds of nasty things, whattaya gonna do? shrug. Pay them no mind. [next inflammatory thing]

I realize most people here know this, but it seems like most people, aren't getting this incredibly obvious thing. The power of not seeing things you don't want too see, I guess.
posted by ctmf at 9:59 AM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I mean, if you start with "Rich People Are Not Going To Pay Taxes, One Way Or Another"

Which is almost the same defeatist strategy as "criminal are always going to have guns (so just give them the guns)"
posted by ctmf at 10:03 AM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


They start there too, yes.
posted by Artw at 10:04 AM on July 2, 2017


He deleted the tweet.... or his lawyers did.
posted by spitbull at 10:16 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Anyone who thinks Trump's social media strategy is some eleven-dimensional chess shit should note that the current White House Director of Social Media and Assistant to the President is Dan Scavino, the guy who used to be General Manager of one of Trump's golf courses.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:19 AM on July 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


It seems the WWE video was a direct answer to the NYTimes editorial linked above
Which means, again a direct call to the base. Trump knows the base is what keeps him up these days and he is getting more and more desperate. I'm guessing that if several prominent R's are tweeting and speaking publicly against the Mika tweet, 10 times as many are trying to quiet him down in private. And while he is not having it, he is also feeling the heat.

The NYTimes is on to something (as are others out there): taunting him works. If the task is to get everyone beyond the crazyfication 27% to unlike him, this is a relatively safe way to go.
posted by mumimor at 10:20 AM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


He deleted the tweet.... or his lawyers did.

Which ironically might be illegal.
posted by ctmf at 10:20 AM on July 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


He deleted the tweet

Aha! Presidential Records Act! IMPEEEAAACH!!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:20 AM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Just your daily reminder that the Congressional NeverTrumpers are just a bunch of pathetic lickspittles who aren't really doing anything NeverTrumpish.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:21 AM on July 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


he deleted the tweet? - i just checked and it's still there in all its kayfabe glory
posted by pyramid termite at 10:22 AM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Anyone who thinks Trump's social media strategy is some eleven-dimensional chess shit

I don't think anyone believes anyone in Trump's ceremonial court up there does anything. The only question is whether Trump himself has some innate, reflexive, subconscious talent for 11-dimensonal social media savvy and orders them to do it or not.
posted by ctmf at 10:25 AM on July 2, 2017


he deleted the tweet? - i just checked and it's still there in all its kayfabe glory

It's gone for me, along with four others that I reported as targeted harassment (of CNN).
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:26 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Gone for me as well. I had also reported it.
posted by spitbull at 10:27 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe WWE sent a takedown notice. Ruining their brand.
posted by spitbull at 10:28 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


well, i didn't report it and i still see it

hmm - isn't that interesting?
posted by pyramid termite at 10:28 AM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Well that would be interesting - does TWTR the company have an obligation with respect to governmental record keeping and freedom of information? Can they even delete abusive official communications (if that's what they are)?
posted by ctmf at 10:29 AM on July 2, 2017


It's still up.
posted by BeginAgain at 10:30 AM on July 2, 2017


It's most likely Twitter hides abusive tweets for users who report those tweets, right? Facebook does the same thing, although there's a note saying the comment is hidden.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:31 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


That's probably the policy for dealing with harassing tweets now, just hide them from anybody who gets offended. Choose-your- own-reality style, like everything else stupid these days.
posted by saulgoodman at 10:31 AM on July 2, 2017 [36 favorites]


Ok I just checked on a non-logged in browser and it was there. WTF?
posted by spitbull at 10:31 AM on July 2, 2017


Just your daily reminder that the Congressional NeverTrumpers are just a bunch of pathetic lickspittles who aren't really doing anything NeverTrumpish.

To be fair, he's saying it like it is, in politician speak. This is crazy, but I can't do anything about it because I need his base
posted by mumimor at 10:32 AM on July 2, 2017


Wonder what the head of Small Business Administration is thinking this morning.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:32 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


He deleted the tweet

Here it is still there.
posted by Mister Bijou at 10:32 AM on July 2, 2017


It's gone for me, along with four others that I reported as targeted harassment (of CNN).

i'm not sure if you can harass a brand
posted by indubitable at 10:33 AM on July 2, 2017


Ok I just checked on a non-logged in browser and it was there. WTF?

Yup.. It's there in an incognito window for me as well.. I guess they just hide them from complainers.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:33 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


There's a funny bit in the WaPo's coverage:
A White House spokeswoman with the traveling press corps hotel here in Bridgewater, N.J., a few miles from Trump's golf club, declined to address questions about the tweet.
You can tell it's just a macho tough guy act when the president needs the press corps sequestered to the next township.
posted by peeedro at 10:34 AM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sorry about false alarm re: deleting. I have reported tweets before without them disappearing though, I'm pretty sure.

I wonder what an effective boycott of Twitter would look like.
posted by spitbull at 10:35 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't think immediately hiding allegedly-offensive tweets pending investigation is a terrible bridging strategy. As long as they do continue the investigation process in parallel and don't call that good enough.

I'm sure "deleting the president's tweet" is going to take some unusual discussion and approval not readily handled at the first-line staffer level within a few minutes.
posted by ctmf at 10:40 AM on July 2, 2017


On a Holiday Sunday. I empathize with the (imaginary) poor staffer at Twitter who's holding down the fort and can't reach a manager or Legal by phone right away.
posted by ctmf at 10:46 AM on July 2, 2017


As long as they do continue the investigation process in parallel and don't call that good enough.

Yeah, sorry, but I'm pretty sure the Twitter version of a homicide detective is someone who shows up and covers the corpse with a decorative throw blanket. If you arrest any murderers, the investors might get jittery.
posted by Behemoth at 10:47 AM on July 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm continually baffled by the right's characterization of CNN as somehow being a leader of liberal thought or at least important to the American left. I mean if you asked me what CNN means to me, if anything I'd say something about Balloon Boy or that missing plane in the Indian Ocean. I doubt that too many in the left care one way or another about CNN so it's weird that it's continually being held up as the anti-Fox News.
posted by octothorpe at 10:53 AM on July 2, 2017 [46 favorites]


They'd have to actually read to understand the real influential media of the left.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:58 AM on July 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


CNN = Jane Fonda in far right mythology
posted by ctmf at 11:00 AM on July 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


If Twitter doesn't have a 24/7 on-call legal team (and a reaction plan) ready for the Trump meltdown moment I would be amazed. Everyone knows it's coming.
posted by spitbull at 11:02 AM on July 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm continually baffled by the right's characterization of CNN as somehow being a leader of liberal thought or at least important to the American left. I mean if you asked me what CNN means to me, if anything I'd say something about Balloon Boy or that missing plane in the Indian Ocean. I doubt that too many in the left care one way or another about CNN so it's weird that it's continually being held up as the anti-Fox News.

I think it's because CNN is the channel some old time Republicans still might look at for news. At least the ones I know do. So they have to demonize it and fight it. It wouldn't work with the people I know because they don't pay attention.

Right now and here, I think Trump's handlers are just trying to move him away from attacking Morning Joe, because that it obviously insane, even with the 27%. It's as if he has acknowledged as much in his later tweets saying that they aren't bad even though they are stupid (eyes rolling so they are almost falling out)
posted by mumimor at 11:02 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


> The NYTimes is on to something (as are others out there): taunting him works.

Dollars to donuts, the NYT ed board limited that op-ed to 247 words so Trump could read it.
posted by klarck at 11:09 AM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm continually baffled by the right's characterization of CNN as somehow being a leader of liberal thought or at least important to the American left.

That's exactly why they do it. Because they know that CNN is just a boring centrist mainstream news outlet. Demonizing that as "liberal leftist propaganda" means that they get to define the new center as farther right. They don't believe their own pap. Or at least the smart ones don't. Trump does.
posted by Etrigan at 11:11 AM on July 2, 2017 [48 favorites]


spitbull: "If Twitter doesn't have a 24/7 on-call legal team (and a reaction plan) ready for the Trump meltdown moment I would be amazed. Everyone knows it's coming."

What are they going to do? Ban him? Can you imagine the reaction? He'd probably send the national guard to SF to arrest the CEO.
posted by octothorpe at 11:24 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


wow I'd never seen the r/donald before today.

I feel dirty and angry and sad
posted by angrycat at 11:26 AM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


I feel dirty and angry and sad

I read the Youtube comments on the Illinois Comptroller's statement
posted by thelonius at 11:30 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Don't despair, angrycat. There's always r/Eyebleach.
posted by GrammarMoses at 11:32 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Anyone who thinks Trump's social media strategy is some eleven-dimensional chess shit

No. tic-tac-toe, if anything. 3D tic-tac-toe, if I'm feeling charitable.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 11:34 AM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


3D tic-tac-toe

That is two more D than I'd give him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:38 AM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


More about that Trump tower server.
Tea Pain’s working theory is that Russia created a voter targeting database with information gleaned from hacked DNC data rolls and other data rolls ‘acquired’ from other states to feed this growing contact database. That database originated at Russian Intelligence which was in turn replicated to Russia’s Alfa Bank. This is where the ‘data laundering’ takes place, Alfa Bank is the pivot point where the FSB’s data fingerprints are wiped clean.”
Analysis- Jared's stealth data machine
posted by adamvasco at 11:39 AM on July 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


"Hey, everyone, look over here!" is not 11 dimension chess. It's something a grade school bully might do as a part of a prank, so I'm pretty sure Trump is capable of it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:42 AM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Seems like a good time to instigate a military/territorial incident with China. (annoying auto-play video, but also text)

To be fair, it needs doing sometime, and it's never the BEST time.
posted by ctmf at 11:47 AM on July 2, 2017


Oh my, just look at those RTs rolling in
posted by infini at 11:51 AM on July 2, 2017




wow I'd never seen the r/donald before today.

I feel dirty and angry and sad


They're the alt-right's own cringeanarchy but with better quality of art in the political cartoons.
posted by Talez at 12:03 PM on July 2, 2017


Oh yeah, just another rancid cherry on the the shit sundae, Trump has proposed eliminating federal heating aid.
President Donald Trump has proposed eliminating heating aid for low-income Americans, claiming it’s no longer necessary and rife with fraud. People needn’t worry about being left in the cold, he says, because utilities cannot cut off customers in the dead of winter.

But he is wrong on all counts.

The heating program provides a critical lifeline for people like Perkins, and officials close to the program don’t see any widespread fraud. Guidelines for winter shutoffs by utilities vary from state to state and don’t apply to heating oil, a key energy source in the brittle New England winter.
I say Trump but this has Mulvaney's stench rubbed all over it. That evil fucking bastard is not going to be happy until the poor have been killed off by a harsh winter.
posted by Talez at 12:08 PM on July 2, 2017 [55 favorites]


Stephanie McCrummen (Washington Post) writes a piece called Love Thy Neighbor? that does a really good job of profiling the contradictory morass that it is to be a Muslim in Trump territory. It's about a doctor in small - town Minnesota. Doesn't try to tie it all up in a neat bow. Well worth your time.
posted by bardophile at 12:10 PM on July 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


Another wrestling GIF he could post

I was expecting the Shockmaster, but that will work too.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:11 PM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


But I also keep noticing that they use the same language to talk about freedom and rights that they use to talk about the climate. It's all controlled by God, it all came from God.

let's test that theory of theirs out

find "god" - results - 0
posted by pyramid termite at 6:39 AM on July 2 [+] [!]


In light of the recent real life body slamming of a reporter by a fellow party member, I can't see how posting that gif could be passed off as just a joke or defended by anyone in their right mind. America has a fucking internet troll for a president.
posted by p3t3 at 6:40 AM on July 2 [+] [!]


And the Valley houses their gods?
posted by infini at 12:15 PM on July 2, 2017


Adrienne Lafrance, The Atlantic: "Donald Trump is Testing Twitter's Harassment Policy."

But Trump’s Twitter conduct also raises a question about what Twitter is, and what it should be. Often, the service is treated as a new kind of public square, a place for the unfiltered exchange of ideas (and, clearly, hurling of insults). Silicon Valley has rarely stepped in to correct the persistent cultural conflation between the actual right to free speech—that is, the constitutionally protected right that says the government cannot make a law that inhibits people’s freedom of expression—and the idea that people should get to say whatever they want wherever they want to without consequence. (Complicating things further, Twitter must answer to its shareholders, and having the president use its service so routinely—and so bombastically—certainly keeps the service relevant.)

In reality, though, Twitter is a media company. Just like CNN and The New York Times are media companies. Except, unlike in a traditional model where publishers and readers are distinct groups, everyone can be both on Twitter. So what’s a company like Twitter to do when one of its users—who is also the president of the United States, by the way—incessantly publishes attacks against individuals? Nothing, apparently. At least nothing yet. The thornier question is: What should it do? Only rarely would any news organization turn down the opportunity to exclusively print or broadcast a message from the president. (U.S. senators and presidential candidates, however, are another story.) Though it’s not like the president doesn’t have plenty of opportunities for his voice to be amplified. He has said he likes Twitter because it’s a direct channel to the American people, but he has his own website where he could be live-streaming or blogging, for instance. He is also a constant subject of media attention; his press conferences—when the White House permits it—are broadcast over cable and network television.
...
If Twitter were to suspend or even outright ban Trump, his most fervent left-wing critics would surely rejoice. His supporters would likely boycott Twitter. Their outrage could help him keep their support. And in Trump’s worldview, this may well look like a win.

posted by spitbull at 12:44 PM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh yeah, just another rancid cherry on the the shit sundae, Trump has proposed eliminating federal heating aid.

Anyone would know this had they read the Republican policy paper:
"At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge, ... it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
"Are there no prisons?"
"Plenty of prisons..."
"And the Union workhouses." demanded Scrooge. "Are they still in operation?"
"Both very busy, sir..."
"Those who are badly off must go there."
"Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
"If they would rather die," said Scrooge, "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
posted by nathan_teske at 12:55 PM on July 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


Oh yeah, just another rancid cherry on the the shit sundae, Trump has proposed eliminating federal heating aid.

I once played a little video game, it was kind of like Papers Please but without the depth and stories, where you played a worker at a TSA checkpoint. And every minute or two, they'd make some increasingly absurd announcement about a new rule you had to enforce: "no pants are allowed through the checkpoint or "goldfish must be removed from all bags and searched separately" and you had to work quickly to keep up with the ever-changing stupidity coming your way.

Anyway, every day with Trump and his people feels like living in that game.
posted by zachlipton at 1:41 PM on July 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


For some reason, since the past few hours, if I log into twitter while logged in to metafilter, something breaks in mefi's script because I can't favourite here anymore. Imma gonna corral twitter to a different browser for a while and see what happens
posted by infini at 1:50 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump has taken the Gish gallop to a whole new level. As originally employed, it merely served to prevent a debate opponent from responding adequately by spewing as many falsehoods as could be crammed into the allotted time, leaving the opposition with time to address only a few of them and the impression that the bulk are unchallenged as to their veracity.

Trump has deployed that concept by producing so many outrageous, immoral, and illegal acts that his opponents have neither the time nor the resources to go after them all and are left a) trying to keep up with the latest and b) unable to set priorities as they dither and reprioritize about which is the most egregious and so should be first addressed. Coupled with a GOP Congressional majority that is slowly being inured to any wrong-doing by this administration, it is a very successful strategy and I see no evidence that any political solution is in the offing. My only hope is that the independent investigation and the courts can rectify our democracy, and that depends upon Gorsuch et al. finding their tiny little consciences floating around in the sea of ideological bullshit that seems to occupy most of their mental space.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:02 PM on July 2, 2017 [35 favorites]


And while Trump is galloping, the one competent guy he hired is trashing the environment.

Coral Davenport, NYT: Counseled by Industry, Not Staff, E.P.A. Chief Is Off to a Blazing Start
In the four months since he took office as the Environmental Protection Agency’s administrator, Scott Pruitt has moved to undo, delay or otherwise block more than 30 environmental rules, a regulatory rollback larger in scope than any other over so short a time in the agency’s 47-year history, according to experts in environmental law.

Mr. Pruitt’s supporters, including President Trump, have hailed his moves as an uprooting of the administrative state and a clearing of onerous regulations that have stymied American business. Environmental advocates have watched in horror as Mr. Pruitt has worked to disable the authority of the agency charged with protecting the nation’s air, water and public health.

But both sides agree: While much of Mr. Trump’s policy agenda is mired in legal and legislative delays, hampered by poor execution and overshadowed by the Russia investigations, the E.P.A. is acting. Mr. Pruitt, a former Oklahoma attorney general who built a career out of suing the agency he now leads, is moving effectively to dismantle the regulations and international agreements that stood as a cornerstone of President Barack Obama’s legacy.
Eyes on the prize, y'all.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:11 PM on July 2, 2017 [36 favorites]


Trump has deployed that concept by producing so many outrageous, immoral, and illegal acts that his opponents have neither the time nor the resources to go after them all

they only have to impeach and convict him once - not that the current congress is likely to do that

pick one thing - hang him with it

it's that simple if they have the will
posted by pyramid termite at 2:15 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump has deployed that concept by producing so many outrageous, immoral, and illegal acts that his opponents have neither the time nor the resources to go after them all

c.f. Brandolini's Law, a.k.a. the Bullshit Asymmetry Principle: "The amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:15 PM on July 2, 2017 [48 favorites]


I just realized the Gish gallop is what spreading was back in cross-x debate back in high school.

I hated that fucking shit.
posted by angrycat at 2:22 PM on July 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


I wonder if Trump will retweet this other work by the dude who made the wrestling gif?
posted by PenDevil at 2:26 PM on July 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


For those disinclined to hit PenDevil's mystery meat (about that, see this meta), it's a Twitter link to a shocking image, reposted by someone named Jared Yates Sexton as a critique, showing CNN on air staff in a mug shot gallery with Stars of David over each one. It is breathtakingly anti-Semitic. It was made by the same dickwad who made the wrestling video meme.

Paying attention to his tweets now seems a bit less frivolous. He is retweeting an anti-Semite as president of the US.
posted by spitbull at 2:36 PM on July 2, 2017 [67 favorites]


And really not just "retweeting," but representing that anti-Semite's work as his own.
posted by spitbull at 2:42 PM on July 2, 2017 [28 favorites]


Nero fiddling
posted by infini at 2:45 PM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Nero had an infrastructure plan
posted by thelonius at 2:47 PM on July 2, 2017 [39 favorites]


In this ongoing omnishambles situation a variation on the expression "You broke it, you bought it" comes to mind:

They Bought It.......He Broke It.
posted by lalochezia at 2:49 PM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


He retweeted anti Semites multiple times throughout the election.

Whenever he does something like this, my shock at what he did is vastly outstripped by my shock at everyone else's shock.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:13 PM on July 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


Amy Held, NPR: Injured Bald Eagle Found In Nation's Capital

The eagle was unable to fly, seemed lethargic and had labored breathing, the Humane Rescue Alliance posted to Facebook. The cause of the eagle's injury is unclear. [...T]he bird's condition appears to be stable and its prognosis "guarded," meaning it may recover but with lasting complications.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:20 PM on July 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


Considering Trump's Mirror (that everything he accuses others of is something he is himself guilty of), he couldn't have tweeted the bogus claim of Mika "bleeding from plastic surgery" unless he had experienced it himself; the surgery and the unsightly bleeding.

And the CNN Body Slam means he privately considers himself down for the count in a fake fight.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:30 PM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


my shock at what he did is vastly outstripped by my shock at everyone else's shock.

I'm not shocked in the sense of surprised, and to be clear Trump didn't retweet the explicitly anti-Semitic image PenDevil linked to, just another work of fart by the same reddit troll. So there is an arm's length separation between Trump and the Star of David-bedecked CNN roster (although note both images attack CNN).

But it is appropriate to express shock rather than the ennui of having seen it coming. We must not let this drift toward being normal. Surprised no, shocked nonetheless.
posted by spitbull at 3:34 PM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


he couldn't have tweeted the bogus claim of Mika "bleeding from plastic surgery" unless he had experienced it himself

Vanity Fair has just posted a brief recap of Donald Trump’s own alleged plastic surgery. And then there was the time he assaulted and raped his then-wife Ivanna after "a painful scalp reduction surgery to remove a bald spot". We should never forget for a minute that Trump is a monster.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:39 PM on July 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


Amy Held, NPR: Injured Bald Eagle Found In Nation's Capital
[...T]he bird's condition appears to be stable and its prognosis "guarded," meaning it may recover but with lasting complications.


[note to scriptwriter: REDO THIS, TOO ON THE NOSE]
posted by entropicamericana at 3:39 PM on July 2, 2017 [63 favorites]


The cause of the eagle's injury is unclear.

Yikes. Sounds like metaphor poisoning.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 3:40 PM on July 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


There's ever any great degree of separation between any given nazi and Russia these days either, so there's a Frummian bothness to the thing.
posted by Artw at 3:45 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think to find the cause of the eagle's injury you'd have to go at least as far back as the Bird Southern Strategy. Probably all the way back to Beakonstruction.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:47 PM on July 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Whenever he does something like this, my shock at what he did is vastly outstripped by my shock at everyone else's shock.

I don't feel shock, but given the office he occupies, the absurdity of his abysmalness needs to be spoken loudly each day, lest we become apathetic. If a person in a pot of gradually boiling water is informed of their situation with enough enthusiasm, they might leap out.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:49 PM on July 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Oh, for sure. I wasn't really referring to the reactions of anyone here, which usually mirror my own, but in the politiverse just generally.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:55 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


We should never forget for a minute that Trump is a monster

Let's be clear, though: Trump is the president; his scalp is Trump's monster.
posted by rhizome at 4:14 PM on July 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


So apparently Donald Trump lost his mind today
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:17 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah he's crazy - crazy like a FOX viewer.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:26 PM on July 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


So apparently Donald Trump lost his mind today

But that's every day!
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:49 PM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


International Business Times Justice Department's Corporate Crime Watchdog Resigns, Saying Trump Makes It Impossible To Do Job
Hui Chen -- a former Pfizer and Microsoft lawyer who also was a federal prosecutor -- had been the department’s compliance counsel. She left the department in June and broke her silence about her move in a recent LinkedIn post that sounded an alarm about the Trump administration’s behavior.

“Trying to hold companies to standards that our current administration is not living up to was creating a cognitive dissonance that I could not overcome," Chen wrote. “To sit across the table from companies and question how committed they were to ethics and compliance felt not only hypocritical, but very much like shuffling the deck chair on the Titanic. Even as I engaged in those questioning and evaluations, on my mind were the numerous lawsuits pending against the President of the United States for everything from violations of the Constitution to conflict of interest, the ongoing investigations of potentially treasonous conducts, and the investigators and prosecutors fired for their pursuits of principles and facts. Those are conducts I would not tolerate seeing in a company, yet I worked under an administration that engaged in exactly those conduct. I wanted no more part in it.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on July 2, 2017 [93 favorites]


VOX The Trump University case isn’t over. An attorney on the case explains what’s next.
Because everyone (Trump, the lawyers, and the court) was in a big hurry to get the case settled after the election, they cut some corners. The main problem is that, as I mentioned earlier, they reneged on their promise to opt out or, in the words of the official notice, “to be excluded from any settlement.”[...]

The Ninth Circuit will have to decide if it’s okay, under the due process clause of the US Constitution and the federal class-action rules, to do what the settlement did here: promise people you’re going to let them opt out of any settlement and then later renege on that promise. That’s the main issue. We also argue that class members should be able to see the terms of any settlement before they have to give up their claims forever.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:59 PM on July 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


If Twitter were to suspend or even outright ban Trump, his most fervent left-wing critics would surely rejoice. His supporters would likely boycott Twitter. Their outrage could help him keep their support. And in Trump’s worldview, this may well look like a win.


Can't they just ghost the creep?
posted by srboisvert at 5:00 PM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


New Jersey Dot Com PHOTOS: Christie, family soak up sun on N.J. beach he closed to public
At a Sunday news conference on the shutdown, Christie was asked if he got any sun today.

"I didn't," he said. "I didn't get any sun today."

When later told of the photo, Brian Murray, the governor's spokesman, said:

"Yes, the governor was on the beach briefly today talking to his wife and family before heading into the office. He did not get any sun. He had a baseball hat on."

Christie, who first disclosed his weekend plans on Monday, said Sunday he was taking the state helicopter to go back and forth between Island Beach State Park and Trenton.

"I traveled there and I traveled back and I'll travel back again," Christie said. "That's where my family is sleeping, so that's where I'll sleep tonight. When I have a choice between sleeping with my family, and sleeping alone, I generally like to sleep where my family is."
This whole story is nuts. Truly a man who has given up any appearance of governing well. To shut down the state beach on 4th of July weekend but then go hang out there with his family is just rubbing salt in the face of the tax payers. But the cherry on top of this fuck-you sundae is when he was asked if this was fair he replied: "Run for governor, and you can have a residence there."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:07 PM on July 2, 2017 [82 favorites]


^Un. fucking. believable.
posted by yoga at 5:18 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Last time I checked Christie had a 15% approval rating in NJ and he's not running again so he's just going to be as big of a dick as he can.
posted by octothorpe at 5:18 PM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Last time I checked Christie had a 15% approval rating in NJ and he's not running again so he's just going to be as big of a dick as he can.

His dickishness is approaching "let them eat cake" levels. Which, you know, is another way to shorten your political career beyond just not running again.
posted by nubs at 5:26 PM on July 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


"They are using the summer beach house provided by the state"

"Christie, who first disclosed his weekend plans on Monday, said Sunday he was taking the state helicopter"

"Christie told reporters Saturday that the the beach house is separate from the park and that his family will not ask for any state services."

Well, Chris, aside from the "rules don't apply to me" assholery, we'll be seeing your check for the pro-rated house payment and the helicopter maintenance and fuel, right? Who's paying the helicopter pilot? Does the house have paid housekeeping staff?
posted by ctmf at 5:31 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm sure Chris Christie is like the Michael Jordan of the vacuum cleaner.
posted by spitbull at 5:37 PM on July 2, 2017


Which, you know, is another way to shorten your political career beyond just not running again.

To be fair, he has no political career left at all. When someone can't even get a job in the Trump Administration then that someone should just give it up. Because they'll hire anyone.
posted by honestcoyote at 5:55 PM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


But he ate the meatloaf...
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:59 PM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


To be fair, he has no political career left at all. When someone can't even get a job in the Trump Administration then that someone should just give it up. Because they'll hire anyone.

Apparently sending the President's son-in-law's father to prison was the line.
posted by Talez at 6:01 PM on July 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'm sure Chris Christie is like the Michael Jordan of the vacuum cleaner.

He uses his tongue a lot?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:02 PM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I got my ass handed to me today at work. In the weeds from open to getting out of there, so I did not see a bunch of the news. But I caught the bit about the tweet with the wrasslin footage and I worry now that this may be an assault on reality itself.
posted by vrakatar at 6:07 PM on July 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


So, I'm just curious here - what happens if a few thousand good citizens of NJ show up tomorrow to enjoy the beach with Chris?
posted by nubs at 6:12 PM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


So, I'm just curious here - what happens if a few thousand good citizens of NJ show up tomorrow to enjoy the beach with Chris?

The police blockade will turn them away. Yes. There's a budget shutdown and state cops are being paid to enforce the shutdown of public facilities.
posted by Talez at 6:18 PM on July 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


So right now there are three state governments in full or partial shutdown: Illinois, Maine, and New Jersey.

What do those states all have in common I wonder? The correct answer is the letter n in their names. But I bet your brains went straight to "spiteful fucks of Republican governors" didn't it?
posted by Talez at 6:22 PM on July 2, 2017 [45 favorites]


damn it! i'm sick and tired of being a scarecrow! the republican party says they can give me a real body, all right - i'll gamble an election and i'll be the one to kick sand in everyone's faces!!!
posted by pyramid termite at 6:27 PM on July 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


I will never stop loving the NYPost headline/cover department

Their editorial board is also on point.
posted by Talez at 6:34 PM on July 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


@ditzkoff: A scene from my remake of Brewster's Millions, where a NJ governor is given a 70% approval rating and told he has to lose it all in 5 years
posted by tonycpsu at 6:34 PM on July 2, 2017 [42 favorites]


I will never stop loving the NYPost headline/cover department

Their editorial board is also on point.


What in the hell? Has it gotten so bad that even the New York FREAKIN Post has abandoned Lil' Donny? Maybe I'm missing something, but I figured they were the house print organ of the (insipidly named) Trump Organization.

And on another note, I'm surprised Maryland isn't one of the normally-blue-but-temporarily-hijacked-by-a-Republican-governor states that's shut down. I guess ours isn't as batshit insane. (He still hasn't told Kobach to fuck himself, so he's still scum to me.)
posted by CommonSense at 7:28 PM on July 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


The police blockade will turn them away. Yes. There's a budget shutdown and state cops are being paid to enforce the shutdown of public facilities.

Have they blockaded the sea approaches to that beach and is Janene Garofalo available to lead the amphibious landing?
posted by notyou at 7:29 PM on July 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


NY Post has been against Trump from the beginning, right? They may be a shitty tabloid, but they occasionally hate the right people. New York in general hates Trump, though.
posted by threeturtles at 7:46 PM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Twitter were to suspend or even outright ban Trump, his most fervent left-wing critics would surely rejoice. His supporters would likely boycott Twitter. Their outrage could help him keep their support. And in Trump’s worldview, this may well look like a win.
Soooo ... win/win for everyone?
posted by octobersurprise at 7:46 PM on July 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Post runs columnists that are apologists for donnie shitstain, but their editorial board has been vaguely sane since the conventions, and I'm not defending them here, but I pick that rag up every other week and recall stern editorials since before the election.
posted by vrakatar at 7:46 PM on July 2, 2017




Democratic Superdelegate, in Room Full of Health Insurance Executives, Laughs Off Prospect of Single Payer

He's such a Walter.
posted by Talez at 8:47 PM on July 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Gephardt would be a great way for the US Left to activate for the elimination of the Electoral College. The Right won't be able to cross over and defend Gephardt, so the Left can work out a plan by themselves.
posted by rhizome at 8:56 PM on July 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Twitter headquarters tonight features the projections "Ban Trump" and "Honor Your Policies."
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 PM on July 2, 2017 [47 favorites]


This may not seem on-thread, but it couldn't be more apt - China is opening its $10tn bond market to foreign investors.
posted by Devonian at 10:41 PM on July 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Democratic Superdelegate, in Room Full of Health Insurance Executives, Laughs Off Prospect of Single Payer

I guessed this was from The Intercept solely based on the headline emphasizing "Democratic Superdelegate!"
posted by Justinian at 10:54 PM on July 2, 2017 [38 favorites]


Justinian: "I guessed this was from The Intercept solely based on the headline emphasizing "Democratic Superdelegate!""

Geez, and it's not like it was, say, some random state chairperson or obscure representative. They're talking about former minority leader Dick Gephardt. But, I guess they know their audience.
posted by mhum at 11:28 PM on July 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Gephardt is a dumb-butt on single-payer health care because he is cozy with big insurance companies who don't want that (and he made his remarks to a room full of insurance company execs). He should retire before he does more damage to the generations that will inherit his corruption.

It's too bad he's so cozy with insurance companies. A lot of union activists in Ohio had a lot of respect for him, from what I gathered in conversations during the 2004 primary season.
posted by bardophile at 3:51 AM on July 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


New Jersey Dot Com PHOTOS: Christie, family soak up sun on N.J. beach he closed to public

"Fuck you, got mine."
-motto of the today's GOP.
posted by Spumante at 4:51 AM on July 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Yesterday, I learned that New Jersey is the only state that does not have a state song.

Christie could probably proclaim 'Born to Run' or 'Livin' on a Prayer' and instantly boost his approval rating twenty percent.
posted by box at 5:22 AM on July 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


They tried to proclaim Born to Run as the "state youth anthem" in 1980 but then the legislatures read the lyrics.
posted by octothorpe at 5:28 AM on July 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


...3 state governments in full or partial shutdown: Illinois, Maine, and New Jersey.

What do those states all have in common I wonder?


Powerball? Do I remember correctly that lottery winners are also on the hate roster of republicans? Serious question.

Yes I know lots of other states have Powerball & it's easy to drive across state lines etc etc etc
posted by yoga at 5:35 AM on July 3, 2017


hey, what about palisades park by freddy "boom boom" cannon?
posted by pyramid termite at 5:43 AM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Jersey Girl" by Tom Waits. It is The Best Song.
posted by spitbull at 6:11 AM on July 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


About that beating up CNN tweet:
In the original, Trump beats up wrestling promoter Vince McMahon.

Except, he really doesn't. It's all just an act. Both guys are in on it and possibly even rehearsed the whole thing. They are both playing a role in what is known as "kayfabe" in wrestling circles. They both profit from it. And the audience knows it's an act and still loves it.

Actually, I think it is quite fitting to replace McMahon with CNN. Notice the similarities:
- It's all just an act.
- Both parties profit handsomely from the arrangement.
- The audience loves it.

So, if this was meant as some sort of meta commentary about the relationship between politics and media, then it is nothing short of brilliant. Of course, I don't think for a second that the Twitler in chief put that much thought into it. He probably just saw it somewhere and retweeted it just for the heck of it.

Of course, the whole thing is just a distraction from the real issue: The US president is a narcisstic psychopath and the Republicans keep defending him and make sure he stays in office. The first thing won't change before the second one does.
posted by sour cream at 6:24 AM on July 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


I don't think yesterday's NYTimes piece on "Trump's personal lawyer", Michael Cohen, has made it in here yet. There is basically zero news in the piece, whose main thrust is: Michael Cohen doesn't seem to be in the inner circle any more. Perhaps that's why it was dropped on Sunday afternoon of a 4-day weekend. Maybe it's a fizzled investigative report. That said, here are a few tidbits:

His ascension to Ivanka's old office in Trump Tower came in 2006 after he aided Trump in a dispute with the condo board of "Trump World Tower," but what he actually does is unclear:
The scope of Mr. Cohen’s job with Mr. Trump is not clear. After a decade of working for the Trump Organization, he has left little public record of his accomplishments. An effort to develop Trump-branded golf communities in New Jersey and in Fresno, Calif., floundered, along with a mixed martial arts venture with a Russian fighter as the headliner. Mr. Cohen did some scouting and groundwork for possible Trump condominium towers in the former Soviet republics of Georgia and Kazakhstan, but those deals never materialized.
He expected but didn't get a job in the Trump administration, and while the role of "Trump's personal lawyer" seems to have been taken over by Marc E. Kasowitz, he still claims it
“Clearly my life has changed since Trump became POTUS and I accepted the role as personal attorney to the president,” Mr. Cohen wrote in a text message in response to a question from a New York Times reporter last week. “This change has come with both many pros and cons.”
But it looks like he'll have a soft landing
He has recently been spending time in Washington ... and Washington lobbying powerhouse Squire Patton Boggs formed a “strategic alliance” with Mr. Cohen’s law practice.

Several people with knowledge of Mr. Cohen’s involvement with Squire Patton Boggs said he had been brought on as a sort of rainmaker because of his business contacts in the United States and abroad. He will operate out of the firm’s New York office and will be able to take advantage of its global reach to help his own clients.
(perhaps one "business contact" in particular).

Josh Marshall of TPM has done more reporting/speculating on Cohen, specifically about the Russian-Ukrainian "peace plan" that he was supposed to hand-deliver to Michael Flynn in February. And Buzzfeed had an article in June reporting on Cohen's sketchy ties in Ukraine. Of course Cohen played a starring role in the Steele Dossier, which he called "totally fake, totally inaccurate."
posted by pjenks at 6:30 AM on July 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


A couple of fun stories via No One Knows Anything podcast

Mashable: Journalists scramble to figure out the mysterious case of a Trump portrait
In which oil paintings of Melania and Donald end upo in the Vice President's office.

Quartz All the “wellness” products Americans love to buy are sold on both Infowars and Goop

A side by side comparison of the products hawked by Gwyneth Paltrow and Alex Jones which not only turn out to be the same but are comparable to GNC wellness products but considerably more expensive. Yet who can resist "activated cashews"?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:33 AM on July 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Other works by the artist of the Trump portrait.
posted by octothorpe at 6:42 AM on July 3, 2017


Yet who can resist "activated cashews"?

Oh c'mon, that's nuts.

This may not seem on-thread, but it couldn't be more apt - China is opening its $10tn bond market to foreign investors.

Debt ceiling fight within the next three months (did someone say gummit shutdown?), Russia and Turkey helping Qatar join the Eastern financial bloc, and billions being drained from the US in the form of tax cuts to the rich, plus the bonus cretinous mismanagement such as malcompetent trade wars and retrograde energy and environmental policies.

G!O!P! G!O!P! G!O!P!
posted by petebest at 6:43 AM on July 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Seriously. Most ambassadorships to countries that aren't dirt poor are patronage.

The ambassador to Canada, the United States largest trading partner, under Obama was a campaign bundling lawyer from Chicago. Pure patronage. Though unlike a lot of recent Republican patronage I am sure he was actually at least a bit competent. The people who do the actual work are not the ambassadors.
posted by srboisvert at 6:43 AM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


America, the diminished: What Trump has wrought (Ezra Klein, Vox)
A list like this can go on. It is a measure of our diminishment how much is left off it — how many outrages and disappointments have already faded from memory. Six months into his term, Trump’s policy achievements are few and thin, but he has coarsened our politics, shown the power of shamelessness, undermined our faith in each other and ourselves, modeled behavior we would punish children for exhibiting, and implicated all of us in the running fiasco of his presidency. He has diminished the country he promised to make great.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:47 AM on July 3, 2017 [33 favorites]


Do I remember correctly that lottery winners are also on the hate roster of republicans? Serious question.

Yep. The reasons are somewhere between "an easy target to whip up support of the rest of the bill" and "a way to dump people off of Medicaid who ever, for even one single day, rise above the wealth threshold."
posted by Etrigan at 6:51 AM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


The numbers are ... bad. Actually, they’re worse than bad.

Pew asked people in 37 countries if they had favorable views of the United States and if they had confidence in the American president to do the right thing in world affairs. These questions were put to people when Barack Obama was still president, and then asked again after Trump took office.

The contrast is stunning.

In all but two countries, perceptions of American leadership have fallen precipitously. It’s especially pronounced among our allies in countries like Canada (-61), France (-70), the UK (-57), and Germany (-75). The only exceptions are Israel and Russia. In Israel, confidence in the American president has climbed 7 points; in Russia, it has surged 42 points.

If you’re like me, you’re probably wondering that this means in concrete terms. Does it matter if people around the world don’t like America or don’t trust American leadership? What does it mean for America’s ability to get things done? Does this compromise our security in any way?
People around the world don't like or trust Trump. Here's why that matters. (Sean Illing)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:16 AM on July 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Don't call it the Trump administration. Call it a regime. Guardian opinion piece by Carol Anderson.
posted by stonepharisee at 7:17 AM on July 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Other works by the artist of the Trump portrait.

From the "the artist" link:
“If I painted Mrs. Clinton or if I painted former President Barak Obama, I would never paint them in a way that was ugly. I don’t feel like that’s being American.”
You misspelled Nobama, dude.
posted by peeedro at 7:22 AM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I would never paint them in a way that was ugly. I don’t feel like that’s being American.

In other news, the painting of 45 looks like he has 6 fingers on his right hand. [real, larger picture here]
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 7:32 AM on July 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


The economy President Trump loves looks a lot like the one candidate Trump hated
And overall, the economy Trump is overseeing as president looks a lot like the one he lambasted as a candidate: a slow, largely steady grind that has chipped away at the damage done by the 2008-2009 recession but that has been insufficient to usher in a new era of prosperity.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:33 AM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


The economy President Trump loves looks a lot like the one candidate Trump hated

The economy that candidate Trump loved at the beginning of any given speech looked a lot like the one that candidate Trump hated by the end of that speech.
posted by Etrigan at 7:39 AM on July 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump has brilliantly changed the subject from “Is he a Russian intelligence asset” to “Is he a dangerously violent lunatic?"
— @davidfrum


More importantly, Trump obviously prefers people talk about him being a dangerously violent lunatic than discuss his being a Russian intelligence asset. It follows that he's probably desperate to hide the fact that he is.
posted by Gelatin at 7:45 AM on July 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


DOJ Corporate Watchdog Quits, Saying It’s Impossible To Work Under Trump (Alice Ollstein / TPM)
In a scathing post on LinkedIn, Justice Department compliance counsel Hui Chen announced her decision to resign last month, saying it was impossible to go after corporate fraud and corruption when President Donald Trump himself was engaging in such practices.

“Trying to hold companies to standards that our current administration is not living up to was creating a cognitive dissonance that I could not overcome,” she wrote.

...

“Even as I engaged in those questioning and evaluations, on my mind were the numerous lawsuits pending against the President of the United States for everything from violations of the Constitution to conflict of interest, the ongoing investigations of potentially treasonous conducts, and the investigators and prosecutors fired for their pursuits of principles and facts,” she wrote. “Those are conducts I would not tolerate seeing in a company, yet I worked under an administration that engaged in exactly those conduct. I wanted no more part in it.”
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:51 AM on July 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


In other news, the painting of 45 looks like he has 6 fingers on his right hand.

I want Obama back, you son of a bitch.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:55 AM on July 3, 2017 [127 favorites]


In other news, the painting of 45 looks like he has 6 fingers on his right hand.

The Secret Service is keeping a vigilant watch for a spunky Spaniard with a chip on his shoulder.
posted by azpenguin at 8:03 AM on July 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


As the dialogue has been swirling about the paintings, Wingard too has been preparing himself for personal attacks and is hoping it won’t result in loss of clients.

Well my dude free speech (or free painting) doesn't mean free of consequences. If you want to give away paint-by-numbers looking portraits of the most hated man on earth then that is all on you.
posted by winna at 8:05 AM on July 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Let's see, the 2017 G20 Hamburg summit takes place 7-8 July 2017. Then there's that Bastille Day Paris invite for 14 July. What to do between one and the other?

Protesters vow to take to streets as UK braces for snap Trump visit (Grauniad)
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:21 AM on July 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


And a right-wing nationalist was just charged with plotting to assassinate Emmanuel Macron on Bastille Day.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:29 AM on July 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Another fun fact: "The parade takes place on the Champs-Élysees, which has been the site of two recent attacks targeting police. Last month a man drove a car laden with weapons and gas canisters into a police van on the avenue. In April, a known extremist shot dead a police officer on the Champs-Élysees days before the first round of the presidential election."
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:36 AM on July 3, 2017


Protesters vow to take to streets as UK braces for snap Trump visit (Grauniad)

A "snap" visit?

snap
/snap/

verb
1.
break suddenly and completely, typically with a sharp cracking sound.
"guitar strings kept snapping"
synonyms: break, break in/into two, fracture, splinter, separate, come apart, part, split, crack; informal bust
"the safety rope snapped and Davis was sucked under the water"
2.
(of an animal) make a sudden audible bite.
"a dog was snapping at his heels"
synonyms: bite, gnash its teeth;

noun
1.
a sudden, sharp cracking sound or movement.
"she closed her purse with a snap"
synonyms: click, crack, pop, clink, tick, report, smack, whack, crackle
"she closed her purse with a snap"
2.
a hurried, irritable tone or manner.
"‘I'm still waiting,’ he said with a snap"



On further thought, maybe "snap" is supposed to modify "Trump": A "snap Trump" visit.
posted by sour cream at 8:40 AM on July 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


FYI: Congressional offices are open today. I just got straight through to staffers at both of my senators' DC office. Don't let them think that we have forgotten what they are trying to do. The senate switchboard is (202) 224-3121 -- it will forward your to your senators' offices.
posted by mcduff at 8:48 AM on July 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


One of the many uses of "snap" in Brit English

snap adjective [ before noun ] uk ​ /snæp/ us ​ /snæp/

done suddenly without allowing time for careful thought or preparation:

He always makes snap decisions and never thinks about their consequences.
posted by Mister Bijou at 8:55 AM on July 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Longread from The Baffler, "Reflections on Violence in the United States."

"These reflections on domestic violence—that is, violence occurring within the United States—first appeared as the introduction to American Violence: A Documentary History, edited by Richard Hofstadter and Michael Wallace and published in 1970. We have deleted the footnotes, added subheads, and abridged here and there, but we have resisted the temptation to update this parade of riots, brandings, lynchings, shootings, and tar-and-feathering parties with examples from our own time. “The primary precedent and the primary rationale for violence comes from the established order itself,” Hofstadter writes. “Violence is, so to speak, an official reality.” No doubt, further examples and incidents in the line of these all-too contemporary reflections will spring to your mind. —Eds."
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:56 AM on July 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


On further thought, maybe "snap" is supposed to modify "Trump": A "snap Trump" visit.

Or perhaps it's an AW SNAP visit, where Trump spends the whole time insulting everyone's mom.
posted by Strange Interlude at 9:35 AM on July 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


On the calls for Twitter to ban Trump, if it ever happens, I'm trying to prepare myself for having to read about a million comments lacking any self-awareness or hint of irony responding to a private company de-platforms the head of the government and his supporters scream about censorship, free speech and the 1st amendment.
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:48 AM on July 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Mod note: Comment removed; huge piles of quotes are kinda cumbersome, better to link and summarize at that point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:50 AM on July 3, 2017


This might seem a bit lateral, and it's long, but I think there's much to treasure, as antidotes to the current timeline onslaught, in this piece/talk by artist J. Odell: how to do nothing.
(Crossposting from panic's recent FPP; it's very profound - and truly pretty impossible to select quotes from, without committing first-degree wall-o-text...)
posted by progosk at 10:00 AM on July 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Dylan Matthews, Vox: What’s the point of an anti-immigrant left?
It’s normal in the wake of a crushing political defeat for the losing party to rethink things, and The Atlantic’s Peter Beinart’s latest piece is an important entry in Democrats’ attempt to understand what happened in 2016 and try to shape a left-of-center coalition that can win given American political realities.

It’s also a genuinely terrifying vision of what could happen to American liberalism if the Democratic coalition learns the wrong lessons from losing to Donald Trump. [...]
posted by tonycpsu at 10:31 AM on July 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


What’s the point of an anti-immigrant left?

Putting the "socialism" in, well.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:35 AM on July 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


GOP Senators Are Trying To Work The Refs As Obamacare Repeal Bill Stalls

As usual, Republican policy cannot be defended on the merits, so they resort to lying and changing the rules of math.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:35 AM on July 3, 2017 [25 favorites]


And that's what people will actually grab onto a remember. Fact fact fact conclusion.

Unfortunately it seems what a lot of people are actually grabbing on to and remembering is fact fact fact conclusion.

Maybe some proof readers.

What does a proof reader do when working for those who don't proof?
posted by juiceCake at 10:58 AM on July 3, 2017


Oh geez. Peter Beinart. It's another opportunity to buff his contrarian/centrist/ sensible Lib credibility (hey guys, we totally are morally and politically obligated to invade Iraq!) and to take a few swipes at the progressive social media left (can you believe what they're calling microaggressions these days!)

Feh.
posted by notyou at 10:58 AM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I respectfully submit that the Democrat's main problem in elections is not the message but the communications thereof.

Discussing the message/platform is well and good, but IMHO, irrelevant. To say "Trump had no message", or "The GOP's base doesn't care what the message is" is true and the opposite should NOT be the focus of the DNC/DCCC. We can't play it like the GOP and every effort to. Do so will fail.

In short, we're doing it wrong. And have been for a very, very long time. The GOP failed up despite frantic attempts to steer and develop a message. (Now that they run everything, yeah, that's a problem. The Dems wouldn't have very much of this chaos, their positions are governance ready for the most part. Believing in the role of government helps there.)
posted by petebest at 11:07 AM on July 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


NY Post has been against Trump from the beginning, right? They may be a shitty tabloid, but they occasionally hate the right people. New York in general hates Trump, though.

The NY Post is maybe the only U.S. paper that has consistently sided with and apologized for Trump. You might be thinking of the aesthetically-similar NY Daily News, which has been very much against him from the beginning.
posted by Navelgazer at 11:18 AM on July 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


Maryland still hasn't refused to hand over the voter data. On Monday I'm going to call Larry Hogan's office and say that if (when!) criminals use the data for identity theft, he's going to find himself a defendant in a class action suit.

It looks as if it was because they were putting some vinegar into it:
@BraddJaffy: Maryland AG: “repugnant—it appears designed only to intimidate voters and to indulge President Trump’s fantasy that he won the popular vote”
posted by zombieflanders at 11:28 AM on July 3, 2017 [56 favorites]


Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) on Monday had a simple response to the Trump administration's request for voter registration data: Jump in a lake.

"When they ask for private voter info, time to tell the 'Election Integrity' Commission to GO JUMP IN A LAKE!" Klobuchar tweeted on Monday.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:34 AM on July 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


@BraddJaffy: Maryland AG: “repugnant—it appears designed only to intimidate voters and to indulge President Trump’s fantasy that he won the popular vote”

Mmmmm, that's some tasty shade right there. Now, that was worth the wait for this Baltimoron.

Meanwhile, this letter is the more formal, to-the-point rejection of the request. I actually like this one quite a bit, too!
posted by CommonSense at 11:38 AM on July 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


A pro immigration Left should be talking about how immigrants need to work under the same labor protections and rules that citizens enjoy so that undocumented laborers aren't cheaper to employ. Under the status quo, undocumented workers can be paid less than minimum wage and put downward pressure on wages for all of us, to the advantage of business. If we had sensible immigration policy, everyone would potentially enjoy better working conditions and pay.
posted by chrchr at 11:47 AM on July 3, 2017 [50 favorites]


Miranda Green for CNN: Haley cheers cuts to UN peacekeeping: 'We're only getting started'
"The figures presented would simply make it impossible for the UN to continue all of its essential work advancing peace, development, human rights and humanitarian assistance," Stephane Dujarric, spokesman for Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, said in a statement.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:11 PM on July 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


This is what Trump was referring to in his #CharlieGard tweet: Trump vows to help Charlie Gard, the terminally ill infant at center of British legal battle (Lindsey Bever, WaPo)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:13 PM on July 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Republican governor notwithstanding, I am quite satisfied with Maryland's actions in aid of the resistance.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:14 PM on July 3, 2017


Trump’s Tweets Are Not a Distraction: They Demonstrate a New Level of Instability (Frank Rich / NYMag)
Meanwhile, the news value of last week’s tweets should not be underestimated. There’s nothing new in Trump letting loose with a nasty misogynistic blow like the one he landed on Brzezinski. What is new is the back story of an alleged blackmail effort by Trump and/or Jared Kushner to use the threat of a National Enquirer expose on Brzezinski and Joe Scarborough as a cudgel to win favorable Trump coverage on “Morning Joe.” Scarborough has tweeted that he has phone records and texts from Trump’s “top aides” to prove this. It is incumbent on him and MSNBC to release that evidence now, particularly given the prominent role “Morning Joe” played in boosting Trump’s candidacy when it counted most, in the early stages of the campaign.

As for the Trump tweet of his “wrestling” CNN to the ground, it is not news that he hates the press, hates CNN in particular, and has called for violence against his critics. Nor is it a novelty that the imagery in a Trump tweet was lifted from a post by an alt-right thug known for anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, racism, and homophobia. But the new level of Trump mental instability dramatized by this tweet is notable. The escalating violence of his tweets at a time when his and the GOP’s entire agenda is on life-support makes you wonder if a complete breakdown is arriving sooner than I and others have thought. The wrestling tweet is batshit crazy, comparable to a drunk Nixon talking to the pictures on the White House walls during his final meltdown.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:18 PM on July 3, 2017 [39 favorites]


My usual contribution to these thoughtful and useful threads; another drawing of Trump.
God Emperor Baby Trump, Lord of All He Surveys.
As per usual, feel free to share, download, or what have you and thanks to everyone who contributes here.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 12:28 PM on July 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


Katherine Kreuger/Fusion: None of the Republicans Leading the Healthcare Disaster Would Tell Us Where Voters Can Find Them This July 4

Lots of inquiries to Senator's offices, and relatively few responses.
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:50 PM on July 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


Just learning about the Charlie Gard situation. Am I right in assuming that if the parents themselves funded transportation of the child to a foreign country, they would be entitled to do so?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:59 PM on July 3, 2017


Charlie Gard judgment:
They have very publicly raised funds. What parents would not do the same? But I have to say, having heard the evidence, that this case has never been about affordability, but about whether there is anything to be done for Charlie... There is unanimity among the experts from whom I have heard that nucleoside therapy cannot reverse structural brain damage... But if Charlie’s damaged brain function cannot be improved, as all seem to agree, then how can he be any better off than he is now, which is in a condition that his parents believe should not be sustained?

It is with the heaviest of hearts but with complete conviction for Charlie’s best interests that I find that it is in Charlie’s best interests that I accede to these applications and rule that Great Ormond Street Hospital may lawfully withdraw all treatment, save for palliative care, to permit Charlie to die with dignity.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 1:33 PM on July 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


From the ruling: The duty with which I am now charged is to decide, according to well laid down legal principles, what is in Charlie’s best interests. Some people may ask why the court has any function in this process, why can the parents not just make the decision for themselves? The answer is that, although the parents have parental responsibility, overriding control is by law vested in the court exercising its independent and objective judgment in the child’s best interests. The Great Ormond Street Hospital has made an application and it is my duty to rule on it, given that the parents and the hospital cannot agree on the best way forward.

I understand why the hospital would withdraw life support, but preventing the parents from choosing to fund transportation of the child elsewhere seems inappropriate, since the alternative is the immediate death of the child.

Of course, I have zero confidence that Donald Trump will treat this matter with the restraint and respect it deserves.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:43 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I wonder if its too early to request a UN peacekeeping force, say from Sudan and Cambodia, to come in and monitor our elections.
posted by happyroach at 1:47 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is what Trump was referring to in his #CharlieGard tweet: Trump vows to help Charlie Gard, the terminally ill infant at center of British legal battle (Lindsey Bever, WaPo)

He's not going to help Charlie. He's going to use Charlie to attempt to put a bullet in the support for single payer in the US. Government deciding your child has to die? JFC you could not tailor a situation more perfect for conservatives in the US to use to club liberals with intellectually.
posted by Talez at 1:54 PM on July 3, 2017 [47 favorites]


Charlie can maybe help Trump, but Trump cannot help Charlie as Charlie is effectively dead.
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on July 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Under UK law, when the patient lacks the capacity to consent to treatment due to age the court (with consideration of the parents' views) is the one who ultimately has the power to grant consent for treatment. The court must apply a "best interests of the child" test, as applied in a previous precedent. The doctor who would do the proposed procedure (which "has not even reached the experimental stage on mice") in the US has never done it on a person with the same ailment and has no idea if it will work and cannot say whether the kid will be in pain during it. Even the parents' own expert witness didn't support the "treatment."
posted by melissasaurus at 1:57 PM on July 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


I am certain of two things regarding the Charlie Gard judgment:

1) There is a great deal of pertinent information about this situation I do not know, and I am thus unqualified to form any sort of informed opinion about it.
2) Donald Trump does not know any more about this situation than I do.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:58 PM on July 3, 2017 [51 favorites]


Quick, someone thaw out Bill Frist so he can dust off his Terri Schiavo speeches about the sanctity of life. *jerk-off motion*
posted by tonycpsu at 1:59 PM on July 3, 2017 [18 favorites]


Needless to say there are plenty of kids in his own country he could actually help and won't.
posted by Artw at 2:00 PM on July 3, 2017 [53 favorites]


Quick, someone thaw out Bill Frist so he can dust off his Terri Schiavo speeches about the sanctity of life. *jerk-off motion*

My thought was that Trump would be bringing back Janet Reno. She's an expert at kidnapping kids and sending them to despotic regimes.
posted by Talez at 2:01 PM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Quick, someone thaw out Bill Frist!

Exactly the person I was thinking of!

Healthcare for the ones among us least able to advocate for themselves - unless, you know, they need Medicaid[*], in which case they need to be sacrificed on the altar of tax cuts for "job creators".

[*] Medicaid is the backstop for most disabled kids in the US - you know, Trump's own country - except when the wait lists are so long that the kids die before they get on Medicaid, which is a situation that fills me with rage and shame in equal measures.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:02 PM on July 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


He's going to use Charlie to attempt to put a bullet in the support for single payer in the US. Government deciding your child has to die? JFC you could not tailor a situation more perfect for conservatives in the US to use to club liberals with intellectually.

-Wouldn't happen in the US because our parental consent laws are different.

-I thought the conservative problem with single payer is that it would force doctors to treat people against the doctor's will ("slavery" per Rand Paul)

-I don't think dragging your terminally ill child to another country to perform an experiment that we don't even know works on mice yet is the moral thing to do. People can disagree; but I'm personally not concerned about conservatives winning some kind of moral upper hand here.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:03 PM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


-I thought the conservative problem with single payer is that it would force doctors to treat people against the doctor's will ("slavery" per Rand Paul)

You seriously don't remember "death panels"?
posted by Talez at 2:04 PM on July 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump are would of course help this kid becaus... nope, no it wouldn't. I guess it might help extract more money from the parents before letting the kid die anyway?

I'm sure a senator could weigh in on this if any could be found.
posted by Artw at 2:05 PM on July 3, 2017


Tell me again how Republicans want to keep government out of medical decisionmaking in outlier cases.

Nothing is consistent, and it's not just Trump. It's always been Republicans. It's smaller government only when government can be blamed for killing a child, but if that same government can be abused to "save" a Republican talking point, the Republican President himself is happy to bring down the jackboots.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:06 PM on July 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


You seriously don't remember "death panels"?

Yes, of course. I just meant recently. (I was being facetious in any case -- they'll use whatever argument suits their needs at the time.)
posted by melissasaurus at 2:07 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm sure a senator could weigh in on this if any could be found.

Just mix a squirt of dish washing detergent into a 5 gallon pail and pour over their lawns. They'll surface within a few minutes.
posted by Talez at 2:07 PM on July 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Jared Yates Sexton, the journalist who tracked down the CNN head video's source, posted a Twitter thread about the response he's gotten. It's not pretty. Here's the original thread on Twitter & here's the full text, just reformatted:
"I'd like to give a little insight into what it's like being a journalist in 2017 and why Trump's rhetoric is incredibly dangerous. Yesterday I broke the news that the guy who made Trump's CNN gif also created an antisemitic meme and was obviously racist. In the wake of that, I received numerous threats. I was told people wanted to shoot, strangle me, hang me, throw me out of a helicopter. Some assumed I was Jewish because I spoke out against antisemitism, others said I was a race-traitor. Got it on both sides.

Now articles are showing up on Neo-Nazi websites, there are videos spliced with Goebbels telling me not to test his patience. That one also has footage from Natural Born Killers of a journalist being executed by shotgun. On forums, under my tweets, there's a list of excerpts from newspaper articles about journalists being slaughter, the details gory. Meanwhile, people are claiming I'm making up the threats and then immediately threatening me. In the same message.

Over on Facebook I'm getting messages from strangers about "goyim" and talking about what happened to Jews in the 40's. This environment is the creation of the man in the White House. There are valid criticisms of the media, many on point, this isn't that. When you start calling a group of people enemies of the country, this is what happens. When you call them scum, this happens. This is what happens when you have Alex Jones calling mainstream media pedophiles and Satan worshippers, and threatening to crush them.

This environment we have right now is volatile. Some of these threats are empty, but people who are unwell consume this stuff. Even as I'm typing this I'm getting antisemitic memes and messages. It's happening in realtime. And everyone keeps bringing up the shooting in Virginia. In a way, they're right. That's what happens in this environment. This shouldn't be a country where these violent instincts are cultivated and encouraged. We're at a real tipping point right now. But make no mistake, there's something growing in this country, and it is very, very ugly."
posted by scalefree at 2:18 PM on July 3, 2017 [157 favorites]


Any time you realize you're tying yourself into knots trying to wrap your mind around inconsistent logic between Republican(TM) viewpoints, remember:

Republicans(TM) are not intellectually honest, nor are they good scientists.

The scientific method works outward: identify core principles, devise experiments to test or extend those principles, adjust the principles in light of evidence, etc.

The Republican(TM) method (like Intelligent Design & other spurious methods) works backward: identify a desirable outcome (stop Democrat-sponsored legislation, lower taxes on wealthy, cut social services, etc.), conjure up a justification for this instance, pretend the argument extends forwards from the justification rather than backwards from the goal, etc.

The scientific method is harmonious: any discovery is beneficial to all science as it helps to inform the big picture. Data from one set of experiments is not only valid, but especially important where it overlaps with other disciplines.

The Republican(TM) method is idiosyncratic: each argument is made for itself & itself alone. There is no crossover between arguments. There is no need (or even desire) for consistency.

Thus, you get combinations like "pro-life" + cuts to child welfare + draconian policies towards women. If one were arguing outward, there would be maddening hypocrisy. But because all argumentation flows backwards from the desired outcome, the Republican(TM) method yields no unfortunate cognitive dissonance.

"I'm pro-life because I care about the unborn child"
"I'm for cutting child welfare because the nanny state harms more than it hurts"
"I'm for retrograde policies against women because the gov't shouldn't make me pay for services I'll never use"

Each of these arguments "works" because it is atomic. It allows the Republican(TM) to want what he (she?) wants and to have a "credible" defense teed up.

It is, as with most things Republican(TM) these days, all posturing & no content.

And now, we can carry on with today's round of "I'm so shocked & saddened by our president's recent behavior that I have no choice but to vigorously pursue his agenda."
posted by narwhal at 2:40 PM on July 3, 2017 [80 favorites]


Postscript: I use the term Republican(TM) to identify positions of party leadership vs. those of rank & file voters. I think that many/most Republican voters are reachable; they only parrot these lines of reasoning. The leadership, however, knows exactly what game they're playing and I will lump all of them into one handy basket.
posted by narwhal at 2:42 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I use the term Republican(TM) to identify positions of party leadership vs. those of rank & file voters. I think that many/most Republican voters are reachable

I don't. We just had an election where the contrast could not have been clearer and nearly every Republican voter came home behind the guy with the R. Trump today polls at 85+ among Republicans. Listen to this field report from a Trump rally last week where they proudly proclaim they have no regrets whatsoever. Look at their newfound support for Vladimir Putin just because Trump won by selling out our sovereignty to him. Read every fucking "Meet a Trump voter" and "Do Trump Voters Still Support Trump" piece that we're treated to every single day from the NYT.

These people are not reachable. Some independents and blue collar former Democrats who voted O-O-T probably are. But the self-identified Republicans? No. There's no difference whatsoever from the "rank and file" to the worst of leadership and the FOX pundit class, except who is getting rich doing it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:52 PM on July 3, 2017 [31 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Dow hit a new intraday all-time high! I wonder whether or not the Fake News Media will so report?

1. Uh... yes I expect they will so report.
2. If the Fake News Media report it it must be false, correct? Why is the President lying about the Dow hitting a new intraday all-time high?
3. Remember last year when Trump attributed the stock market rally not to President Obama but to investors predicting that Trump would win the election? I say we go ahead and attribute this year's rally to Elizabeth Warren
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:15 PM on July 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


My thought was that Trump would be bringing back Janet Reno. She's an expert at kidnapping kids and sending them to despotic regimes.

You misspelled reuniting a child with his lone living parent.

Also, Reno is dead so unable to take a position in the Trump administration even if that means she'd be more competent than at least half his cabinet.

While I think her management was mediocre - the failure to simply grab up Koresh while he was out jogging by himself on a public road was just unbelievable - the only reason reuniting Elian Gonzales with his father was even a topic of discussion was because of the US's moronic communism-panic relationship with Cuba.
posted by phearlez at 3:18 PM on July 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


4. The Dow hits intraday all-time highs pretty often. This is the 23rd time it's happened this year.
5. In Obama's first year in office, the 23rd Dow intraday all-time high happened on May 28.
posted by box at 3:25 PM on July 3, 2017 [38 favorites]


JFC you could not tailor a situation more perfect for conservatives in the US to use to club liberals with intellectually.

JFC you could not tailor a situation more perfect for conservatives in the US to use to club liberals with emotionally.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:34 PM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


"I'm pro-life because I care about the unborn child"
"I'm for cutting child welfare because the nanny state harms more than it hurts"
"I'm for retrograde policies against women because the gov't shouldn't make me pay for services I'll never use"


As far as I can tell the current GOP thinking is now:

1) Closing PP & cutting Medicaid & removing BC as essential benefit so that poor women have no access to affordable BC*

2) Denying access to abortions by closing PP & other clinics

3) Cutting Medicaid so that maternal and newborn coverage become rare or extinct.

So "we're not going to help you not get pregnant but we also don't want to help you if you do get pregnant."

*Leaving condoms as the only cheap(ish) BC method and the one not controlled by the woman.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:41 PM on July 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump considering lawyer for White House Russia role: sources (Karen Freifeld and Jeff Mason / Reuters)
President Donald Trump is considering adding a veteran Washington lawyer to the White House counsel's office to deal with Russia-related issues, people familiar with the matter said.

Ty Cobb, a white-collar defense lawyer with the firm of Hogan Lovells and a former federal prosecutor, met with Trump about a week ago, another person said.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 3:42 PM on July 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


⚾️?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 3:43 PM on July 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


I'd rather look at the people I know who voted R and remind myself that by & large they are decent people. There have been many fruitful discussions in these threads about things like "hot" vs. "cold" racism or the nature of identity-driven politics, etc. tl;dr: the set of R voters contains multitudes.

Some reasons my friends & family voted R: They didn't trust Hillary. They worried about a liberal supreme court. They worried about the deficit/debt spinning out of control. They worried about healthcare getting more & more expensive.

These are not positions that anyone comes up with for themselves. These are engineered positions that are propagated from leadership downward. I blame the people disseminating the message, not the people who tune into their team's station & believe what they're told is honest reporting.

I see the Republican(TM) machine & its outlets twisting the minds of people who aren't "under" informed so much as "maliciously" informed. They have a lot of information, but it's not necessarily good or even resembling reality.

It doesn't seem worthwhile to blame the people who are misled by those in power for the same crimes as those who know better.

Most people (both R & D) are born into their team's fanbase. Sure, some of us are Ds in spite of our upbringing. And I'm sure some number of Rs switched in order to resist their own "home" team. I would posit that very few people (relatively) have the depth & breadth of political thought we evidence in these threads. Very few people are as (well) informed as we are.

For most folks, R or D, their own personal tie to their party is akin to their attachment to the proverbial home sporting team. If you're tying to reach an R voter & coming at their team, then you're right: they aren't reachable.

However, if you talk to the person & not the R voter, there are plenty of things you'll find that you agree on. Most people value the same things. Working from a position where both you & this other person agree that sick people should be taken care of or that no amount of bad luck should force people out onto the street, etc., it becomes pretty clear that there is a big difference between what the R voter wants and what the Republican(TM) machine wants.

It seems crucial to our humanity that we remember this distinction. That's why I took pains to indicate that I meant Republican(TM) vs. R voter republican. What's the old saying I just made up? "You don't blame the parrot for its filthy mouth."
posted by narwhal at 3:44 PM on July 3, 2017 [32 favorites]


Ty Cobb, a white-collar defense lawyer

cool it's been a few days since some improbably named character was introduced, I almost forgot we were living in a buggy simulation with poor random number seeding for a while there
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:49 PM on July 3, 2017 [79 favorites]


The Telegraph: Pentagon considers scrapping programme that recruits highly skilled immigrants to US armed forces
The Pentagon is considering ending a programme that allows immigrants with sought-after skills to join the American armed forces in return for an accelerated path to US citizenship, according to several reports.

The programme was set up in 2009 to try to find additional numbers of recruits with language and medical skills, particularly Arabic speakers and surgeons.

However, concerns were first raised last year when it emerged that some recruits had falsified university degrees prompting the Pentagon to order fresh security checks.

Dismantling the pathway altogether would leave around 1000 foreign-born recruits at risk of deportation.[...]Lt Col Margaret Stock, its founder, said: “If you were a bad guy who wanted to infiltrate the Army, you wouldn't risk the many levels of vetting required in this programme.”
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:50 PM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Press Herold LePage says he’s going on vacation, as shutdown and budget talks continue
Amid intense budget negotiations and a state shutdown, Governor Paul LePage has told lawmakers he’s taking a 10-day vacation.

“He called the Senate president (Michael Thibodeau) and Sen. (Roger) Katz this morning to say he was leaving the state to go on vacation,” Thibodeau’s spokeswoman Krysta West said Monday afternoon.

West said Thibodeau, R-Winterport, told her about the call. LePage did not tell him whether he was still in the state, when he planned to leave or where he was going.
Is this normal behavior for a Governor to tell the legislative body, "I'm leaving and don't bother trying to get in touch with me"? I swear LePage and Christie are battling it out for the biggest jerks in America. Of course they can't surpass the master jerk himself.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:55 PM on July 3, 2017 [25 favorites]


Is this normal behavior for a Governor to tell the legislative body, "I'm leaving and don't bother trying to get in touch with me"?

He's term limited, can't be recalled, and the Republicans wouldn't dare impeach. He's untouchable with nothing to lose. We're seeing a wholesale breakdown of norms in responsible governance. Sadly, shutting down government services is no longer the nuclear option but a typical bargaining chip at the table.
posted by Talez at 4:05 PM on July 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


For those of you like myself previously not fully immersed in the cesspit that is Republican popular politics some of the past Jared Yates Sexton writings should make us less surprised about the level of hate and ignorance that is flying right now.
I suppose it's only a case now of when and not if for the murder of a journalist.
posted by adamvasco at 4:09 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Chris Matthews is showing a retrospective of his Trump interviews over the years, and though Trump has always been a bombastic asshole, he at least is speaking in complete sentences.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:21 PM on July 3, 2017


@realDonaldTrump: Dow hit a new intraday all-time high! I wonder whether or not the Fake News Media will so report?

I'm not all that much disappointed in the Republicans staying on Trump's side right now (in my mind, it's still early in the political process), but I'm very disappointed in Wall Street acting like the dog in the "This Is Fine" meme. The only businesses he's helping right now are those that are doing grossly illegal things and wishing to avoid responsibility for them. Which up until now I didn't realize how much of Corporate America that was.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:37 PM on July 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


Presidents have historically avoided taking too much personal credit for the stock market's successes (at least letting their surrogates gush on about it instead of doing it themselves) because they'd rather not be held personally responsible when it eventually drops and would prefer not to foster an illusion that they are capable of controlling the market's strings. This administration doesn't think that far enough ahead.
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on July 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


Most people value the same things. Working from a position where both you & this other person agree that sick people should be taken care of or that no amount of bad luck should force people out onto the street, etc.

Faulty premise. Many, many people in the US (and to be fair, not just people who vote Republican) absolutely do not agree with us about those points.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:00 PM on July 3, 2017 [25 favorites]


...and I thought this would be the one company most supportive of Trumpononomics, and it's not even on the stock market: "How Koch Industries Does Business". Note that this is mostly about Koch's only major consumer-facing division, so if you want to boycott the Brothers, you just need to avoid paper products branded AngelSoft, Brawny, Dixie, Northern, Sparkle and VanityFair.
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:12 PM on July 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's also a good idea to take a look at the components of the Dow Jones before relying on it as any kind of bellwether of economic health. Just because extraction industries, large employers who pay poverty wages, and businesses with effective monopolies are doing well, doesn't mean your future is looking bright. In fact, fair wages and functional government oversight would likely depress most of these companies' stock prices.
posted by Anoplura at 5:22 PM on July 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Republicans famously cheered letting the uninsured die on the streets during the debates.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:31 PM on July 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


If it's not too early for some Fourth of July silliness, here in Virginia the republican candidate for governor Ed Gillespie has unveiled his plans to create "thousands of jobs and tens of millions of dollars in tax revenues": to allow the sale of better fireworks, upgrading our options from "rinky-dink" to "full-blown". Seriously [youtube, cringeworthy].

The spokesperson for his opponent Ralph Northam responded with, "Dr. Northam likes fireworks as much as anyone, but he also wants to make sure you can afford health care in case you accidentally blow your hand off with one," as a way of pointing out that Gillespie has yet to offer a substantial position on the republican healthcare plan. And of course the internet does its thing.

Also, on the subject of fireworks, here is Harry Truman preparing for July 4th celebrations. Wile E. Coyote was unavailable to comment.
posted by peeedro at 5:35 PM on July 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


So "we're not going to help you not get pregnant but we also don't want to help you if you do get pregnant."

I feel like their stance is pretty consistent, actually. It is a puritan "Do not have sex, except to procreate".

It's not reality-based, but I think a huge chunk of the religious right thinks that any support of birth control equates directly to supporting sex for fun, and quite probably *gasp* outside of marriage. Can't teach kids about sex because then they'll start having it. Don't support unwed mothers because they shouldn't have been having sex. Can't abort babies because BABIES but also because shouldn't have had sex in the first place.
posted by graventy at 5:35 PM on July 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


-I don't think dragging your terminally ill child to another country to perform an experiment that we don't even know works on mice yet is the moral thing to do. People can disagree; but I'm personally not concerned about conservatives winning some kind of moral upper hand here.

I believe this is what happened with Jesse Koochin. IIRC the parents were going to take him to Mexico for naturopathy.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:35 PM on July 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Can't teach kids about sex because then they'll start having it. Don't support unwed mothers because they shouldn't have been having sex. Can't abort babies because BABIES but also because shouldn't have had sex in the first place.

And certainly can't support those babies with health care or opportunity once they're born. Because that'd take taxes, and those mothers shouldn't have had sex if they couldn't afford millions for neonatal ICU care.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:41 PM on July 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


As a Canadian there have always been varying degrees of fear and dread mixed in with the more positive emotions I've felt towards the United States, but nowadays it actually feels *justified* for the first time and not just the usual Canadian antipathy. It really seems like a lot of different, troubling things that have been developing in the U.S. for my entire adult life are coming to a head all at once, and historically that often leads to very bad outcomes. And it's all so short-sighted and preventable.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:42 PM on July 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump's Fake Press Enemies would weep and rend their garments over any large drop in the Dow Jones, just as they always have. I've worked for a couple companies that were closely dependent on 'market values' (including one critically wounded by the 1987 Black Monday crash) but mostly ones that were not (in one case, the Dot Com Crash only affected the 401Ks of employees foolish enough to put their money in The Market while I smiled with my 90% interest-bearing mix). But then, my longest period of unemployment was during a 'boom' period and my shortest during a Recession. I'm just a human counter-indicator.

Charlie Gard is truly the Poster Boy for 21st Century Republican Health Care Policy. As long as his parents can afford to, throw any and all unproven - and DISproven - treatment at him. Forget that you can keep a full Childrens' Ward operational for a month with those resources. I expect that Alex Jones and Gwyneth Paltrow should be meeting the family at the airport with pills to shove down the unfortunate child's throat.

And the same male 'Christians' who fear that any support of birth control would be supporting sex (shudder) 'for fun' are not raising a finger against men's Boner Pills.

Can we just agree that Everything in America is Awful and not only does it not NEED Donald Trump to be Awful but he's kind of the perfect mascot for Awful America?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:44 PM on July 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


Now batting for Pedro BorbonTy Cobb… Manny MotaReality Winner... Winner...
posted by Brak at 5:45 PM on July 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


The problem with it being labelled as "preventable" is that the guys with the actual power to prevent it (who are not voters, but Congress) have no interest in doing so.

Or at least, enough of them do that no solution can be enacted. (Indeed, some of them are instead choosing to profit on the chaos)

This is not a tenable situation, but I think all of them assume it won't explode on their watch, so why not just profit?
posted by Archelaus at 5:46 PM on July 3, 2017




National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The Founders definitely anticipated this
The Founders, in their infinite wisdom, definitely anticipated all the events of recent weeks. Excerpts from James Madison’s redacted notes during the Constitutional Convention follow below.

JOURNAL OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION OF 1787

Monday, May 28

Discussion progressed apace. The Virginia Plan was accepted as a basis for debate.

We were making great strides in regards to the responsibilities of the executive until Benjamin Franklin entered very agitated and with the following proposals, vis.
  • that provision must be made in the event that the chief executive wished to spend the majority of his time engaged in striking balls with clubs and endeavoring to make them fall into small holes at variable distances from the initial striking point
  • that provision must be made in the event that said executive wished to conduct all his business from a place where he had access to such a diversion
  • that if the chief executive wished continually to make derogatory remarks about women provision ought to be made for that lest it detract from the running of affairs of state
  • that …
At this point Gouverneur Morris of Pennsylvania arose from his desk and escorted Mr. Franklin home to bed, as his brain was evidently addled with strong drink.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:11 PM on July 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


The Christie on the Beach (pace Philip Glass) story seems to be taking on allegorical proportions quickly. The photos are just so rich and his defense so tone deaf.

But this gave me a nice chuckle: Beachgoers cheer as banner plane telling Gov. Christie to "get the hell off the beach" passes by. (Twitter video from @JSHurricaneNews).
posted by spitbull at 6:26 PM on July 3, 2017 [35 favorites]


The Christie on the Beach (pace Philip Glass) story seems to be taking on allegorical proportions quickly. The photos are just so rich and his defense so tone deaf.

This entire election cycle has us talking like Tamarians from TNG. "Chris Christie on the beach, his meatloaf cold..."
posted by nathan_teske at 6:32 PM on July 3, 2017 [34 favorites]


Something, something, "sand in his meatloaf"...
posted by Anoplura at 6:39 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


his meatloaf cold.
Not in those shorts it wasn't.
posted by bibliowench at 6:41 PM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I feel like their stance is pretty consistent, actually. It is a puritan "Do not have sex, except to procreate".

It's not reality-based, but I think a huge chunk of the religious right thinks that any support of birth control equates directly to supporting sex for fun, and quite probably *gasp* outside of marriage. Can't teach kids about sex because then they'll start having it. Don't support unwed mothers because they shouldn't have been having sex. Can't abort babies because BABIES but also because shouldn't have had sex in the first place.

It's really not at all consistent, though. There are at least half as many miscarriages as abortions and nobody is shooting up clinics to ensure that pregnant women receive pre-natal care.

Similarly, it turned out that many of the organizations which object to any medical treatment that can also serve as birth control had never objected to boner pills until they were called on it.

Also, of course, electing President Pussy-grabber the Twice-divorced is not exactly puritanical, any more than was blithely accepting that it was totally a complete accident when St. Ronnie legalized abortion in California as the governor.
posted by XMLicious at 6:49 PM on July 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


That's pretty consistent with their approach to healthcare, which seems to be mostly morality based. If you are sick it must be your fault somehow. Why should I pay for your bad decisions re: food/job/etc. Oh, you lost the baby? Should've prayed more.

None of this applies to their good friend Jim who has brain cancer (oh the whole town showed up for his benefit everyone loves Jim) or their sister Mary who had an abortion because reasons for care like that only happen to people they know and love. It's an extension of fuck you, got mine.
posted by graventy at 6:58 PM on July 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


By threatening anti-Trump protesters with decades in prison, the state is attempting to criminalize civil disobedience.
posted by adamvasco at 7:08 PM on July 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
North Korea has just launched another missile. Does this guy have anything better to do with his life? Hard to believe that South Korea.....
....and Japan will put up with this much longer. Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea and end this nonsense once and for all!


Where do I recognize that wording from? Hope China has a few tic-tacs.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:26 PM on July 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


None of this applies to their good friend Jim who has brain cancer [...] or their sister Mary

I guess I feel as though a laundry list of exceptions to the rules and special situations where licentiousness is permissible takes quite a bit of redefinition of terms to refer to as "consistent" and "puritan".
posted by XMLicious at 7:27 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


He's going to use Charlie to attempt to put a bullet in the support for single payer in the US. Government deciding your child has to die? JFC you could not tailor a situation more perfect for conservatives in the US to use to club liberals with intellectually.

I first saw this story a few days ago, when FB showed me my brother arguing about how Charlie Gard's outcome is the inevitable result of socialized medicine. Either there is already some messaging to this effect or this argument follows simply enough to people that are fully jacked in to the conservative mindset.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:31 PM on July 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Inevitable result, yeah. Without socialized medicine that poor child would have been deceased months ago.
posted by notyou at 7:51 PM on July 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


Chris Matthews is showing a retrospective of his Trump interviews over the years, and though Trump has always been a bombastic asshole, he at least is speaking in complete sentences.

His thinking has definitely gotten less organized over the years. He's always been a narcissist & conman but he did used to be able to speak actual English not just an English flavored word salad like he does now. And the constant proximity of one of the family inner circle suggests the need for a handler to smooth over his discontinuities. If it hasn't happened yet, being the conspiratorial family they are it's inevitable that of course they'll go into damage control mode to protect him much, much longer than they should. It'll be very interesting in a pathological way to watch the palace intrigue as they protect his failing faculties & simultaneously wrestle each other to be the true power behind the throne. I wonder how long before something is ordered in his name that he had nothing to do with, and which member of the clan it'll be.
posted by scalefree at 8:41 PM on July 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


That's me, Mr Sunshine!
posted by scalefree at 8:43 PM on July 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Oh yeah, just another rancid cherry on the the shit sundae, Trump has proposed eliminating federal heating aid.

Where will the outrage be when people freeze to death?
posted by indubitable at 8:58 PM on July 3, 2017


Freeze to death? So you're admitting that Global Warming isn't real? (The stupidities and cruelties all dovetail together)
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:03 PM on July 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Apropos of nothing in particular, my WaPo pushed cover has ivankas sneering mug, with some headline that leaves a poor little princess taste, and I have loaded up all sorts of games and books so as to push the WaPo way back in the carousel, because I just cannot with the stories about 45s complicit handlers and their insatiable appetite for attention.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:13 PM on July 3, 2017


Can't win 'em all, Scotty, you evil bastard: Federal court blocks Trump EPA on air pollution
An appeals court Monday struck down the Environmental Protection Agency’s 90-day suspension of new emission standards on oil and gas wells, a decision that could set back the Trump administration’s broad legal strategy for rolling back Obama-era rules.

[…]

Monday’s court ruling was sharply worded at points, with the judges dismissing “the flimsiness” of the EPA’s “claim that regulated entities had no opportunity to comment” on one aspect of the methane rule.

“The administrative record thus makes clear that industry groups had ample opportunity to comment on all four issues on which EPA granted reconsideration, and indeed, that in several instances the agency incorporated those comments directly into the final rule,” the judges wrote.
Maybe your boss shouldn't trash-talk judges so much eh.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:15 PM on July 3, 2017 [36 favorites]


Thanks for the Truman image, peedro. . I just finished watching the city fireworks display a few blocks from Truman's home and his presidential library - it gave me a bit of happiness.
posted by jferg at 9:17 PM on July 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Laura Rosenberger, former Foreign Policy Advisor for Hillary Clinton, posted this tweetstorm on Trump's Twitter-based brinksmanship with North Korea:
Lots of problems with Trump’s tweets tonight on North Korea, but to highlight a few: North Korea will parse every word to understand what it means. They will look for clear signal of intention. North Korea uses its propaganda mouthpieces in an intricate way to clearly signal their thinking. When I worked North Korea in government, we spent hours pouring over North Korean statements to understand their thinking. They absolutely do the same with us. And that means they may well read much more in to Trump’s tweets than he intended. Problem is, Trump has no idea what his intentions are, and is sending signals without anything to back them. Deterrence is based on credibility and capability. And credibility requires clear signaling of intentions. Reassurance to our allies like Japan and ROK is likewise based on clear and credible assurances and capability to back it. Trump’s words represent neither, and will undermine our both our deterrence and our reassurance – which we have spent decades building. But perhaps most dangerously, Kim Jong Un will wonder what the comment about “this guy” means. After all, just a few months ago, Trump said he was open to meeting with him. Picking a twitter fight with a nuclear-armed dictator is not wise – this is not reality TV anymore. Trump is playing with fire here – nuclear fire. He could literally get us in to a war with his tweets. Time to drop the pretense that his tweets can ever be considered anything other than official statements. Because our allies and adversaries may just calculate decisions of nuclear war based on what Trump tweets.
Not exactly the most encouraging note on which to go into a fireworks-based holiday.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:23 PM on July 3, 2017 [53 favorites]


graventy's comment above mostly jives with my feeling, having grown up in a strict catholic household.

But I'd also say that for some who see health problems as moral justice or punishment, it's a little different than "Fuck you, I got mine." Because they'd happily take the misfortune if it happened to them too. That's like the ultimate christian self-sacrifice for them, and a sort of dark masochistic side of catholicism.

So for those folks, I'd say it's less "Fuck you, I got mine," and more "Fuck all of us, we deserve it. (until we pray really hard and God has mercy on us)."
posted by p3t3 at 9:26 PM on July 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Breitbart's lead story is a piece by Kris Kobach entitled "Why States Need to Assist the Presidential Commission on Election Integrity," in which he lies about the letter:
The hyperventilating on the Left about this request is particularly strange since the Commission only requested information that is already publicly available. Any person on the street can walk into a county election office and obtain a publicly-available copy of that state’s voter rolls—which usually includes voter name, address, date of birth, and the recent elections in which the voter participated. During any campaign season, there are literally hundreds of candidates and campaign workers in every state who possess these same voter rolls. Voter rolls are also frequently obtained by journalists seeking to do election-related research.

Although private information like the last four numbers of a voter’s social security number is sometimes included in a state’s voter database, that information is usually not publicly available. The Commission didn’t request that information. Thus, there is no threat that the Commission’s work might compromise anyone’s privacy.
Emphasis mine, because he fucking well did demand that.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:39 PM on July 3, 2017 [34 favorites]


So for those folks, I'd say it's less "Fuck you, I got mine," and more "Fuck all of us, we deserve it. (until we pray really hard and God has mercy on us)."
posted by p3t3 at 1:26 PM on July 4 [+] [!]


It's so easy to tweak that - "Fuck all of us, we deserve it. (until we work really hard doing practical things together to prevent badness and earn God's mercy, which is what we were put here to do, dammit)."
posted by saysthis at 9:39 PM on July 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


A 2018 Anthony Kennedy Retirement Would Light Up a Fiery Battle for the Senate
Last week rumors reached a fever pitch that Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy might announce his retirement as the current SCOTUS term ended. But he didn’t. Then a few days later, Kennedy himself supplied evidence he is considering retirement next year, probably just before the October 2018 term of the Court begins. Is this “story” anything more than a back-and-forth guess-a-ganza that won’t matter until Kennedy retires — or doesn’t?
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. We have a long-standing tradition of waiting until the next presidential election is over before picking a new Supreme Court justice. Trump's already started his 2020 campaign, so this won't be an issue until January 2021, right?
posted by kirkaracha at 10:22 PM on July 3, 2017 [31 favorites]


From the UK court decision dated 2017-4-11 concerning Charlie Gard linked to by Jpfed above, a few details about the condition and the treatment sought in the U.S. by the parents:
20 Charlie suffers from the RRM2B mutation of MDDS. No one in the world has ever treated this form of MDDS with nucleoside therapy, although patients with a different strain, TK2, have received nucleoside therapy with some recorded benefit. In mouse models, the benefit to TK2 patients was put at about 4% of life expectancy. There is no evidence that nucleoside therapy can cross the blood/brain barrier which it must do to treat RRM2B, although the US doctor expressed the hope that it might cross that barrier.

[...]

103 Dr. I said that he had treated four patients directly and that he had been indirectly involved with fourteen others. He said that there were no published case studies, although he did have a manuscript. Of the four that had been treated, none were infants the time when the therapy started. Of the other fourteen, he believed that one or two were infants. None of the fourteen had encephalopathy or seizures and fewer than 10% of them had brain involvement, so he agreed that it was not in any way a reliable statistic.

[...]

127 Dr. I, who has not had the opportunity of examining Charlie, and who operates in what has been referred to as a slightly different culture in the United States where anything would be tried, offers the tiniest chance of some remotely possible improvement based on a treatment which has been administered to patients with a different condition. I repeat that nucleoside therapy has not even been tried on a mouse model with RRM2B.
posted by XMLicious at 10:25 PM on July 3, 2017 [9 favorites]




Supposedly North Korea is about to announce they have an ICBM. We could be on the cusp of Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0. Here's hoping the adults wrestle the phone away from him before he escalates things. And FFS that Fox morning shit show better not pitch another pre-emptive nuke strike.
posted by bluecore at 11:41 PM on July 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


For Trump, Buzz should've just reworded it "to Insanity and Beyond"...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:41 PM on July 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Didn't Buzz once straight up deck a moon-denier? He must have been making that face journey to distract himself so he didn't just punch Trump. He must have been tempted.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:44 PM on July 3, 2017 [15 favorites]




ELECTIONS NEWS

** Kobach commision & data request:
-- CNN - Nice summary of each state's current status. 41 states have pushed back completely or in part. Lots of strong quotes from GOP SOSs, which should help favorably shape the narrative.

-- Politico - Data would be a hacker's gold mine.

-- Rich Hasen - Kobach's commission is so incompetent and egregious, it will undermine the administration's efforts to hurt voting. Worth noting that I've seen some, "Actually, Kobach is playing 17th-dimensional chess" analysis (such as from Julian Sanchez), but I am skeptical: Kobach has lost 4 suits by the ACLU, and was just sanctioned for lying in court.

-- Justin Levitt - Request likely violates the 1974 Privacy Act.

-- A legal complaint has been filed against Kobach for a Hatch Act violation (basically that he's using service on the commission as part of his Kansas governor campaign)
** ACHA/BCRA -- Catalist poll conducted post-Senate CBO score has keep/fix ACA at 75% vs 18% repeal. Among Trump voters, 53 / 40.

** 2018 midterms:
-- WI-01 (2018) -- Progressive veterans' org VoteVets has endorsed Randy Bryce (you know, the ad guy with the moustache) for the Dem nomination against Paul Ryan.

-- San Diego mayor Kevin Faulconer has decided not to run for CA governor. The GOP may have no major candidate for governor, which means that GOP turnout will be depressed in the primary, which means that under CA's top two primary, both candidates in the general will be Dems. CA has seven GOP-held districts that went Hillary, so this could be a big impact.
** 2018 Senate:
-- GOP recruitment woes continue, as top potential candidate Ann Wagner has opted not to challenge Claire McCaskill in MO.

-- In the past few decades, it has been *extremely* challenging to beat an incumbent in a midterm when your party controls the WH. Knock wood, but the real challenge for the Dems is the map makes a 3rd flip very challenging - Heller, maybe Flake, but where else?
** NJ gov:
-- The budget standoff has ended in NJ, but obviously the whole BeachGate thing is a headache for GOP candidate Kim Guadagno, who has a day job as Lt. Gov. She attacked Christie on Twitter, but clearly he's a huge anchor.
-- Christie's 15% approval puts him at about 4th lowest in the postwar era, basically only ahead of guys who were indicted in office.
** Odds & ends:
-- Suffolk poll finds 75% alarmed or uneasy about developments in Washington.

-- 538 (Harry Enten): Where should Dems compete in 2018 House races? (tl;dr: Throw everything at the wall, and see what sticks).

-- Nina Turner is taking over Bernie Sanders' group One Revolution from Jeff Weaver. Notable both for moving from a white man to an African-American woman, and for Turner's criticism of the Democratic party during the 2016 campaign. She's starting off her new gig critical, too.

-- By 2040, 70% of Americans will live in the largest 15 states...meaning 30% of citizens will control 70% of the Senate.

-- Rhode Island's legislature has passed Automatic Voter Registration, and the governor is expected to sign.

-- WaPo (O'Keefe & Weigel): Dem officeholders being driven by the Resistance.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:48 PM on July 3, 2017 [67 favorites]


Christie's 15% approval puts him at about 4th lowest in the postwar era, basically only ahead of guys who were indicted in office.
There's still time..
posted by Nerd of the North at 1:36 AM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


God I hate Twitter. I can barely parse the argument here, and there's none of the nuance about sourcing and the limits of certainty that signals "real news" for me.

But Andy Slavitt on Twitter is saying "NEW: The Senate is quietly pushing a subtle change in the health care bill: not just to gut Medicaid, but to allow states to eliminate it."
The new state waiver process in the Senate bill already allows Medicaid to be replaced by giving ppl a subsidy. The requirements of the waiver explicitly say that governors can do without legislature & that all waivers must be permanent changes. All it would take is 1 conservative governor ever to eliminate Medicaid for a state. A pitch the Koch Bros could hit. The Federal taxpayer money currently going to Medicaid can be used for any purpose-- does not need to be used w low income/disability/etc. Rather than plussing up Medicaid, Senate is selling conservatives that plussing up tax credits will allow Medicaid to be replaced. As @ThePlumLineGS points out, this "plussing up" would be woefully inadequate, meeting 22% of the need.
But far as I can tell that Plum Line piece does not actually say that. It says that leaving the investment tax in place would restore 22% of the funding Republicans are otherwise planning to cut -- nothing about what funding level is actually needed. There are no editors on Twitter.

Anyway, he seems like probably a credible person, but Twitter is such a terrible medium I can't make out the truth here. Is there really a possibility of a single conservative governor in a state abolishing Medicaid forever under this bill? If so, why has no one else noticed that yet?
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:37 AM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


If the reported 40 minute flight time of the DPRK's missile is roughly accurate that's a full fledged ICBM not an intermediate range missile. As a resident of Los Angeles, let me be the first to say that this is just fine and we're all fine.
posted by Justinian at 3:52 AM on July 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Andy Slavitt along with Topher Spiro are the policy guys for health care on Twitter and IRL. If he's saying it, I'd believe it.

Slavitt was Acting Administrator for the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services under Obama. Then Obama put him in charge of fixing ACA after the website rollout debacle.
posted by chris24 at 4:06 AM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Why does it not gall all the so called patriots on team MAGA that Trump and the Republicans basic argument is America can't possibly be competent enough at running its own affairs to give its people the same benefits our allies in the rest of the world have given their own people? FFS, Germany manages to afford giving everybody there a stipend to go on vacation every year.

Americans have completely bought the argument America is exceptional all right. We seem to believe we're exceptionally bad at running our own country and so the Republicans want us to just give up and let oil money run the nation instead.

Why is it not offensive to voters the Republican platform is basically that Americans are just so uniquely awful, we could never hope to be able to trust and stand each other well enough to do better at governing ourselves so we should just shutter up the state completely? It's insulting when they claim we're not capable of making our own government work better for us. Those claims should offend everyone, but we hate ourselves too much.

It's so easy to tweak that - "Fuck all of us, we deserve it. (until we work really hard doing practical things together to prevent badness and earn God's mercy, which is what we were put here to do, dammit)."

That kind of engagement with religious ideas would require having some respect and tolerance for the legitimacy of religious faith in any form, and hell, let's face it: even many of our atheists have become so puritanical now, they can't see the wisdom in respecting, tolerating, and building bridges even with those who practice the more benevolent forms of American Christianity, unlike almost every previous generation of secular humanists and scientific thinkers, who made tolerance for benign religious traditions a core part of their thinking and rhetoric back in the heyday of American secular humanism, when during the civil rights era, churches played a major role in liberalizing American attitudes on race and social policy.

I'm pretty sure the whole faith based initiative Bush II pushed was a power grab, in recognition that liberalism had made such great strides in previous decades because the churches were on their side. It was a bribe to try to remedy that earlier strategic failure and gain influence over the power of the pulpit for their agenda of dismantling the Republic and selling it off to foreign investors for scraps, private equity style, under the guise of strengthening it.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:11 AM on July 4, 2017 [23 favorites]


I'm deeply preoccupied with what Mattis might be thinking this morning.
posted by angrycat at 5:22 AM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


There are many flying buttresses of mythology which serve to hold back reality on the right but I think a major one that distorts all perspective on budget is the myth that taxes are terribly, onerously high, whereas in reality we're always near the bottom of OECD rankings for "Tax revenue as % of GDP".
posted by XMLicious at 5:42 AM on July 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


Nice subtweet Mitt, but your legacy was cooked when you groveled for his endorsement in 2012 and appeared with him, legitimizing a birther.

@MittRomney:
Celebrating independent speech, worship, and association; independence from autocracy; these defining rights and more won at great cost.
posted by chris24 at 5:52 AM on July 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


The "is America exceptionally bad" argument has been in use for years to address the question of why we imprison so much of our population. Are Americans so much worse than the citizens of other countries? Why do we put more people in prison than any other country?

That argument never works with the Right. I suspect that it would work just as well for the healthcare debate. For one thing they cling to the insane belief that anyone who really needs care will get it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:06 AM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's so easy to tweak that - "Fuck all of us, we deserve it. (until we work really hard doing practical things together to prevent badness and earn God's mercy, which is what we were put here to do, dammit)."

Except that it isn't.. A lot of the evangelicals are literally part of an apocalyptic death cult. They want to hasten the rapture.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:10 AM on July 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


Nice subtweet Mitt, but your legacy was cooked when you groveled for his endorsement in 2012 and appeared with him, legitimizing a birther.

Romney's legacy, now and forever. Mitt done goofed.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:11 AM on July 4, 2017 [44 favorites]


Wow, Rust Moranis, what a photo.
posted by taz at 6:13 AM on July 4, 2017


Yeah, the photo of Mitt and DJT is truly one of the saddest documents of this early century.

Mitt, proud Presidential-runner-up-who-was-not-black-like-Obama-not-that-any-of-the-people-who-voted-for-him-are-racist-because-they-totally-aren't-they're-just-conservative-and-Obama-was-a-secret-socialist-who-wanted-to-national-the-means-of-production-it's-there-in-the-speeches-if-you-know-where-to-look-seriously-it's-not-'cause-he-was-black-though-he-uh-you-know-his-inexperience-was-pretty-embarrassing-I-mean-to-though-of-us-who-think-government-should-be-run-like-a-business-I-mean...

So Mitt, proud presidential nominee... screw it, he got what he deserved. But fuck was it a wicked sting.

At that moment Trump was truly just what he is and nothing more - not a conservative, not a republican, just a power-hungry psycho who had talked himself into a position where he could pull off stunts like this. That Mitt didn't see it coming is testament to how different the game Trump is playing. He's not fucking around, he's throwing convention out the window in a way that is exhilarating but also probably gonna crash the fuck out of the government.

Like, damn has it been a fucked up nine months and a bit.
posted by From Bklyn at 6:28 AM on July 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


> Here's hoping the adults wrestle the phone away from him before he escalates things. And FFS that Fox morning shit show better not pitch another pre-emptive nuke strike.

Happy 4th of July, everyone.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:29 AM on July 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


A member of my local Indivisible group posted this PDF: Presidential Commission requests for Voter Data ‐ State Responses as of 7/4/2017
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 6:34 AM on July 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


That Mitt didn't see it coming is testament to how different the game Trump is playing.

Nah. It's a testimony to the fact that Romney has never been at the wrong end of a structural power disparity and has never bothered to truly listen to those who have.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:35 AM on July 4, 2017 [53 favorites]


If the reported 40 minute flight time of the DPRK's missile is roughly accurate that's a full fledged ICBM not an intermediate range missile. As a resident of Los Angeles, let me be the first to say that this is just fine and we're all fine.

This is a good reminder that Los Angeles is full of good people that do not deserve to disappear in a ball of nuclear flame. While taking out most Dodger fans is tempting, it's not worth it.
posted by delfin at 6:37 AM on July 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Why do we put more people in prison than any other country?
I think that argument works just fine if they're in a space where they can be honest about the reason they'd like to give. Hint: it starts with B and ends with lack people. The U.S. has more of those people than other developed western countries, rendering the solutions other countries employ null and void because we'd have to apply them here equally (dang equal protection clause).
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:53 AM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


CNN says 41 states not complying with the voter data requests (Liz Stark and Grace Hauck, CNN)
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:10 AM on July 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Perhaps China will put a heavy move on North Korea

Does...does Trump think all of this is pro wrestling, not just that CNN GIF?

"BAH GAWD, HERE COMES XI JINPING WITH A FOLDING CHAIR! SOMEBODY STOP THE MATCH!"
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 7:14 AM on July 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Here's hoping the adults wrestle the phone away from him before he escalates things. And FFS that Fox morning shit show better not pitch another pre-emptive nuke strike.

Ah, no worries. He's busy golfing for the 36th time as prez. 22% of his presidency. Not like there's important matters to attend to.
posted by chris24 at 7:19 AM on July 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


If you want a primer on the NK ICBM situation, this is a good one.

TL,DR:
1) Yes, it's an ICBM.

2) It probably could reach Alaska but not San Francisco or LA.

3) All previous policy has been trying to prevent this line from being crossed. It's been crossed.

4) The unknown: Trump has to form a new policy - what will it be? Re-engagement? Containment? Escalation?

4) The danger: many Republican elected officials (McCain, Lindsay Graham) have previously urged pre-emptive strikes or a "war over there" if NK reaches this capability, so there probably wouldn't be political pushback if Trump escalates.
posted by bluecore at 7:35 AM on July 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


Remember, every moment he golfs, he's not getting up to any other trouble. We should encourage the golfing.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:35 AM on July 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


Ah, no worries. He's busy golfing for the 36th time as prez. 22% of his presidency. Not like there's important matters to attend to.

Truly, it staggers the imagination that we have a POTUS who is so wildly unsuited for the position that Americans cheer when he doesn't try to POTUS and instead plays golf.

Another rant, if I may:

* could you imagine anyone applying for a job having no idea of its duties
* doubling down on their ignorance by saying they don't actually care what their duties are because they have no intention of fulfilling those duties
* make it clear that instead of doing their job they're going to watch TV and attack people on social media
* actively work to undermine and destroy the workplace (workplace=USA)
* take that a step further and devote themselves to literally making the entire world unsafe because they can

I mean, what the FUCK?
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 7:41 AM on July 4, 2017 [46 favorites]


US: KIM JONG UN COULD NUKE US AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
SK: 대체 무슨 소리 야?
JP: 多分それはアメリカの例外的主義ですか? 彼らは、それが問題になることをあなたが裸になる危険にさらされている時を知っています。
CN: 闭嘴你白痴只是继续给橙色的商标和奉承
posted by Talez at 7:42 AM on July 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


And FFS that Fox morning shit show better not pitch another pre-emptive nuke strike.

History book of the future:

While many disparate events created the conditions for the Great War of the 21st Century, there is a general consensus among historians that its ignition can be traced to one man: Steve Doocey.
posted by pjenks at 7:44 AM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


While many disparate events created the conditions for the Great War of the 21st Century, there is a general consensus among historians that its ignition can be traced to one man: Steve Doocey.

[picture of Taran Killam]
posted by Etrigan at 7:51 AM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


* could you imagine anyone applying for a job having no idea of its duties
* doubling down on their ignorance by saying they don't actually care what their duties are because they have no intention of fulfilling those duties
* make it clear that instead of doing their job they're going to watch TV and attack people on social media
* actively work to undermine and destroy the workplace (workplace=USA)
* take that a step further and devote themselves to literally making the entire world unsafe because they can


And that millions of people wanted this in a "leader."
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:54 AM on July 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


And that millions of people wanted this in a "leader."

Millions of people want competent governance that can give them jobs with decent wages and healthcare. But since that's not an option on the table they just vote to piss off the liberals and punch down.
posted by Talez at 7:58 AM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


They are both playing a role in what is known as "kayfabe" in wrestling circles

Wikipedia:

In professional wrestling, kayfabe /ˈkeɪfeɪb/ is the portrayal of staged events within the industry as "real" or "true," specifically the portrayal of competition, rivalries, and relationships between participants as being genuine and not of a staged or predetermined nature of any kind. Kayfabe has also evolved to become a code word of sorts for maintaining this "reality" within the direct or indirect presence of the general public.

Trump: "Despite the constant negative press covfefe"

Maybe "kayfabe" was the word he was trying to remember how to spell. Because in that context, it would actually make sense.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:01 AM on July 4, 2017 [29 favorites]


could you imagine anyone applying for a job...

Americans are taught from a young age that anybody can be President. They don't say that about TV stars, so anybody who's been able to achieve that -- what not everyone else can -- is more than qualified to be President, no matter how they act in the job. After all, they're just one of us now, and wouldn't you like a job where you get to X (golf or whatever) whenever you want?

Besides, Pence is the one currently doing the most damage.
posted by rhizome at 8:02 AM on July 4, 2017




Why do we put more people in prison than any other country?
I think that argument works just fine if they're in a space where they can be honest about the reason they'd like to give. Hint: it starts with B and ends with lack people. The U.S. has more of those people than other developed western countries, rendering the solutions other countries employ null and void because we'd have to apply them here equally (dang equal protection clause).


I've heard people put out that argument publicly more than once. Just has to be the right public.
posted by mumimor at 8:11 AM on July 4, 2017


A bit of an odd question here. Besides all the other horrible stuff the Trump administration does, there is its inability to actually operate the government . A big part of this is the 100s of positions in government that are still not filled yet; such as ambassadors, directors of government agencies, etc. Is there a list somewhere that tabulates this incompetency, a list perhaps of positions that still need filling?
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 8:26 AM on July 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Those positions will not be filled unless absolutely, headliningly, necessary. It's what "shrinking the government" looks like: fewer government workers.
posted by rhizome at 8:32 AM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


I can't help but hear John Geilgud spit in cod-Shakespeare:

Christie on the beach, his meatloaf cold
And shrivelled like his soul upon the plate,
Doth mock the people, and the common weal.
And claims the moral void as his estate

This empty husk, this bulbous bag of space
Yet still a mascot true of all his party's ways
A signifier of how time for them is late
A sure and sober sign. The ending of their days
posted by Devonian at 8:37 AM on July 4, 2017 [56 favorites]


The U.S. has more of those people than other developed western countries

I'm embarrassed to say that at 33 years old, it only just now occurred to me that this is what is actually meant by the argument against Scandanavian-style social democracy in the U.S. that "in our much more heterogeneous society, it would never work." I've heard this argument all my life, even from left-leaning people. As a teenager I assumed it referred to the urban-rural divide and that there must be something to it if educated people were claiming it. In my 20s I decided it was a weak excuse not to try. Only just now have I realized it originated as light code for "we'd have to give services to black people."

Happy fucking Independence Day.
posted by biogeo at 8:49 AM on July 4, 2017 [118 favorites]


Mark Pincus and Reid Hoffman are launching a new group to rethink the Democratic PartyIt’s called Win the Future, and Pincus is even courting potential WTF candidates like the frontman of ’90s rock band Third Eye Blind.
WTF is also eyeing more audacious efforts: Initially, Pincus had planned to solicit feedback at launch on recruiting a potential challenger to Democrats’ leader in the House, California Rep. Nancy Pelosi, in a primary election. That idea is on hold — for now — but Pincus and Hoffman are still trying to solicit candidates to run elsewhere as so-called “WTF Democrats.” For Pincus, one of his early targets: Stephan Jenkins from Third Eye Blind. The two have met in recent months, in fact. [...]

Also on Pincus’s potential target list: California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who he derided as a “career politician.” Feinstein also isn’t an introductory target for WTF, but Pincus said he’s already had conversations with folks like Jenkins, the frontman of Third Eye Blind, about someday challenging her. Hoffman plans to have his own conversations with potential candidates, but declined to name any of his ideal recruits during an interview.
WTF, indeed.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:17 AM on July 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


Pence is the one currently doing the most damage.

Ima stop you right there: Trump's alarming environmental rollback: what's been scrapped so far (Oliver Milman, Guardian)
While every new administration reviews or even reshapes inherited regulations – especially those enacted in the dying days of a prior presidency – the scale of the current rollback is unprecedented, according to Whitman.

“We looked at 60 or 70 rules and we upheld them all, whereas this administration seems to think everything done in the last administration was bad,” she said. “This is the president’s agenda. Scott Pruitt absolutely believes in that agenda, but this is coming from the president.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:20 AM on July 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


"in our much more heterogeneous society, it would never work."

I do sometimes see people mixing up those saying the above with those saying "in our society that is both more racially heterogeneous and incredibly racist, it will never be politically tenable" which are two different statements. One is extremely racist, the other is acknowledging extreme racism as or current reality, but in this culture where pointing out racism often gets you called racist, well, you know.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:25 AM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


This is the president’s agenda. Scott Pruitt absolutely believes in that agenda, but this is coming from the president.”

Pfft, until it's not. Think about who we're talking about here.

And fuck Mark Pincus. That guy is not a Good Politics guy.
posted by rhizome at 9:30 AM on July 4, 2017


Is there a list somewhere that tabulates this incompetency, a list perhaps of positions that still need filling?

Tracking how many key positions Trump has filled so far
Of 564 key positions requiring Senate confirmation …
384 No nominee
4 Awaiting nomination
130 Formally nominated
46 Confirmed
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:31 AM on July 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


The big reason I don't take much comfort in Trump's incompetence is that, without providing competent executive leadership, none of the existing environmental and regulatory policies stand any chance of being enforced. The state isn't automated and it doesn't just keep running itself when there's a leadership vacuum. Even under Bush II, without explicitly rolling back environmental regs, there was evidence all over the place they were deliberately sandbagging and blunting the effectiveness of the existing policies. Under Trump, it's a given they're doing an even better job of looking the other way and acting against the public interest by passive aggressive inaction, since that's pretty much the narcissist's preferred form of social violence anyway.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:39 AM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


X, "4th of July"
posted by kirkaracha at 9:39 AM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Of 564 key positions requiring Senate confirmation …
384 No nominee
...
46 Confirmed

I believe there is a very simple explanation for that: Trump has only so many family members and cronies who are willing to swear blind loyalty to him. Like Gorsuch. Or Tillerson. Or Mattis.
posted by sour cream at 9:44 AM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Or they simply don't want them filled.
posted by rhizome at 9:53 AM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


[R]ecruiting a potential challenger to Democrats’ leader in the House, California Rep. Nancy Pelosi, in a primary election... For Pincus, one of his early targets: Stephan Jenkins from Third Eye Blind.

I wish you would step back
From that ledge my friend
You could cut ties with all the lies
That you've been living in
posted by carmicha at 9:54 AM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Republicans have a backup plan for killing the individual mandate to get a "better" CBO score
CBO is required to base its estimates on current law. If Republicans do away with the mandate, that’s the baseline CBO has to use. So if Republicans fail this year but re-introduce a health care fill next year, CBO will compare it to a baseline in which the mandate doesn’t exist. This is a win-win for Republicans. If they fail to repeal Obamacare this year and decide to pack it in, killing the mandate is still good politics. But if they decide not to give up, it means their next bill will automatically get a much better score. Compared to a world where the mandate is already gone, their bill won’t take away insurance from 24 million, it will take it away from 12 million or so. Fiddle around with Medicaid funding and maybe you get that down to 5 million.

To you and me, that’s still a lot. But in newspaper headlines it’s far less dramatic. Bottom line: even if Republicans fail this year, Obamacare isn’t safe. Republicans can spend the next year sabotaging Obamacare¹ and giving some real thought to a new replacement bill. They’ve learned a lot about how CBO scores things, and that will allow them to craft a bill that’s carefully tailored to get the best possible score while still reducing taxes the maximum amount. No matter what happens with Trumpcare this year, the fat lady has definitely not sung.


When they can't win against math, they change math to say what they want it to.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:06 AM on July 4, 2017 [48 favorites]


Thanks T.D. Strange
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 10:09 AM on July 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump has ruined my sex life. Last night I went on a first date with a nice enough guy who, it turns out, is from New York and voted against Hillary Clinton when she ran for senate. And then he "couldn't bring" himself to vote in the presidential election. Besides, he said, we're in California so it doesn't matter. When I got home, I texted my next date to ask if he had voted in the presidential election. Nope, he did not, because he doesn't believe in "lesser evil voting" and the Democratic leadership "elected Trump, not the people who couldn't stomach voting for an elitist warmonger." For fuck's sake, people!

And I've had it with the Washington Post. The fabulous David Fahrenthold cannot make up for the regular bullshit the newspaper still runs, including stupid-ass "analysis" pieces that just feed our current political dysfunction. The latest example is an article by Philip Bump called, "If Clinton had won, would her poll numbers be any better than Trump’s?" WTF???!!!

I'm not linking to that ridiculous article because I don't want to promote such malarky. Happy fucking fourth of July. Grrrr!
posted by Bella Donna at 10:16 AM on July 4, 2017 [78 favorites]


Bittersweet memories: The Colbert Report - President Obama Delivers The Decree
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:37 AM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Unlike the people I'm dating, I have sway over the WaPo: I have a subscription.

As for my love life, my new rule is that I don't date people who didn't vote for Clinton. It lowers my dating pool, but it's well worth it.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 10:42 AM on July 4, 2017 [46 favorites]


As for my love life, my new rule is that I don't date people who didn't vote for Clinton. It lowers my dating pool, but it's well worth it.

Yeah. I gotta agree with you there. I mean I get that politics is a nuanced thing where many factors go into a decision on who to support, and I don't mind those people who say "we don't let politics get in the way of our relationship/marriage" but JFC, as a woman, knowing your SO or potential SO supports someone and a party that doesn't treat you as a human being, that must be the world's shittiest feeling to feel.
posted by Talez at 10:57 AM on July 4, 2017 [25 favorites]


Trump has ruined my sex life. Last night I went on a first date with a nice enough guy who, it turns out, is from New York and voted against Hillary Clinton when she ran for senate. And then he "couldn't bring" himself to vote in the presidential election.

I humbly suggest you look at dating people from the nearly 100 countries, 4 of which are the most populous on Earth, of which 3 are democracies, where they've already had female heads of state or government. Not only is it a nifty workaround to Trump, it lets you stick it squarely to every retrograde USian caveman (who are actually a minority of men on Earth) too insecure to have a woman in charge! Right in the libido! And it vastly expands your dating pool! By the numbers, most human males are fine with it.

And just in case some odious American troglodyte mentions something about American women being different (oh if you haven't heard it yet, it's a matter of time), tell them that no, actually, there is an entire other country out there that elected an American woman as president. She was even a socialist! Read that, and come to grips with just how medieval, sexist, and wrong these shitheads are.

I know that's a gross oversimplification, but no, you're not wrong for disincluding Trump voters from your dating life, and you're not exactly hurting your odds, globally speaking.
posted by saysthis at 11:03 AM on July 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


The idea that a sleazeball like Mark Pincus is going to put the Democratic Party on the right path -- by turning to dim bulbs like Stephan Jenkins, no less -- is just hilarious. SMFH again, Silicon Valley.

Also, here's Dave Alvin's version of 4th of July. Happy Independence Day, y'all.
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:10 AM on July 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I'm super skeptical that tech bros are going to save us. Thus far there's little evidence that they can grok the needs and hopes of anyone unlike themselves.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:14 AM on July 4, 2017 [28 favorites]


Remember, every moment he golfs, he's not getting up to any other trouble. We should encourage the golfing.

I suspect that Trump golfs so as to hold meetings and made decisions without people "wiretapping him" or taking memos or transcribing words said on their laptops. It's cold war era spycraft and totally fits his social class, the men making deals with a handshake outside of the official channels.
posted by msalt at 11:15 AM on July 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


> ...voted against Hillary Clinton when she ran for senate. And then he "couldn't bring" himself to vote in the presidential election. Besides, he said, we're in California so it doesn't matter. When I got home, I texted my next date... he doesn't believe in "lesser evil voting" and the Democratic leadership "elected Trump, not the people who couldn't stomach voting for an elitist warmonger." For fuck's sake, people!

I think THESE GUYS are actually Trump's base, and I have more contempt for them than any deplorable. THESE GUYS were this cycle's "undecideds". In 4 years, they'll never admit to having voted for Trump.
posted by klarck at 11:20 AM on July 4, 2017 [23 favorites]


In "The origin of the specious", The Economist dives into the Reddit swamp known as The Donald for its daily chart.

Users on “The Donald” have a vocabulary of their own. The most commonly used words are obvious ones like “Trump” (315,000 mentions) and “Hillary” (115,000), but others are more surprising. “Centipedes” (“pedes” for short), a nickname for fellow Trump enthusiasts, gets 26,100 mentions. Pepe, a cartoon frog popular with the alt-right, is mentioned 13,000 times. Also popular are variations on the word “cuck” (some 28,000 mentions), a shortened form of “cuckservative”. (This word is a portmanteau of “cuckold” and “conservative”, and is a derogatory term for a conservative who has sold out to the left. The implication is that such people are weak and emasculated.) Some 10,000 posts have been devoted to Seth Rich, a Democratic Party staffer killed in a botched robbery, who alt-right conspiracists have suggested without evidence was connected to the leak of emails pilfered from the Democratic National Committee.

Such people are now providing the raw material for a president’s tweets. Happy birthday, America.

posted by Bella Donna at 11:26 AM on July 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Last night some neighbors invited a bunch of us to an evening of barbecue. beer and bonfire with a side order of distant fireworks. It was lovely, until "Born in the USA" began to play and I learned that yet another one of my neighbors is an idiot.

Jerk: I used to love Bruce Springsteen. What happened to him? When did he switch sides?

Me: ???

Jerk: Born in the USA is such a great patriotic song; it's practically the national anthem for mid-50s guys like me. But now Bruce won't shut up about his politics and for some reason he supported Hillary. I guess it's because Obummer gave him a Medal of Freedom. I had no idea Bruce could be so easily bought.

Me, not knowing where to begin: I think you need to listen closer to Born in the USA. Here: read the lyrics on my phone.

Jerk: ???

We were rescued by dessert. But it's tough being the only liberal people in the vicinity.
posted by carmicha at 11:31 AM on July 4, 2017 [118 favorites]


Well the "sent off to a foreign land to go and kill the yellow man" line does seem to form the basis of most of Trump's current foreign policy goals. Maybe your friend thought it was an endorsement.
posted by dng at 11:36 AM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


If I could ever wrap my head around how to properly date (or really make myself want to), I'd be onboard with a Trump voter boycott, but then again, how would I know? These alt-right types have been less than straightforward about their real allegiances. I think it's part of their whole "trolling as a way of life" culture. They seem to think keeping secrets and tricking people makes them intellectually superior or something (or at least proves those "libtards aren't as smart as they think," or something along those lines).
posted by saulgoodman at 11:38 AM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


* could you imagine anyone applying for a job having no idea of its duties
* doubling down on their ignorance by saying they don't actually care what their duties are because they have no intention of fulfilling those duties
* make it clear that instead of doing their job they're going to watch TV and attack people on social media
* actively work to undermine and destroy the workplace (workplace=USA)
* take that a step further and devote themselves to literally making the entire world unsafe because they can


Having watched It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, yes.

...that's Charlie work.
posted by delfin at 11:38 AM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


California Sen. Dianne Feinstein, who he derided as a “career politician.” Feinstein also isn’t an introductory target for WTF, but Pincus said he’s already had conversations with folks like Jenkins, the frontman of Third Eye Blind, about someday challenging her...

How novel, a completely inexperienced man who assumes he could do a much better job than a woman at the job she's been doing all her life
posted by the turtle's teeth at 11:39 AM on July 4, 2017 [106 favorites]


Well the "sent off to a foreign land to go and kill the yellow man" line does seem to form the basis of most of Trump's current foreign policy goals.

I desperately wanted to ask this guy what he made of lyrics like that or if he had just heard them all in his differently ('scuse me, while I kiss this guy), but it was not to be. Mr. Carmicha's theory is that the guy really didn't know the Springsteen oeuvre and had, in his youth, used Born in the USA to signify bro-hood, probably biding time through each verse until it was time to drunkenly belt out the chorus.
posted by carmicha at 11:42 AM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


As a native Californian, I will note that I think Feinstein would be an excellent senator for, say, Ohio. Which has been noted in these threads. I call her office weekly in an attempt to keep pushing her to the left rather than her much-more-centrist default. That said, I favourited your comment, TTT, because yes, that's exactly right. See, I want Feinstein replaced by Representative Barbara Lee. Because she knows politics and she's been the most progressive voice in Congress her entire career.
posted by Bella Donna at 11:43 AM on July 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


people who say "we don't let politics get in the way of our relationship/marriage"

Good for them and all, I agree on that point. But for me, politics has veered so far into identity in this country at this point that I see ever-decreasing middle ground for personal relations.

From my perspective, the future of our species is under attack by the ignorant and apathetic, in equal parts. And while I will continue to hold my nose, take deep breaths, and jump back into the fray of trying to reach those people for humanity's sake, I can't fathom applying the same principle in the quest for intimacy. No thanks.
posted by Brak at 11:44 AM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


If I could ever wrap my head around how to properly date (or really make myself want to), I'd be onboard with a Trump voter boycott, but then again, how would I know?

Ahem: Users on “The Donald” have a vocabulary of their own.

It's pretty easy to pick up on alt-right language, and similarly on themes derived from the FOX-iverse. First mention of Benghazi, voter fraud, Pepe or "cucks" = date over immediately. May not be a perfect screen, but seems like a close enough proxy. And alt-right trolls are worth avoiding on their own anyway, regardless of whether they bothered to vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:45 AM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


The scariest thing about the the dismantling of regulations that's going full steam ahead (see also: Trump Repeals Regulation Protecting Workers From Wage Theft, HuffPo) is you know they aren't picking these things at random. They haven't been sitting around offended on principle since the rules were enacted.

You know it's Trump or a buddy that wants to break this rule right now. This rule is inconveniencing someone and they want it to go away so they can do exactly what it prohibits. So that HuffPo piece makes me start looking around for a government contractor with an egregious labor violation history. I bet I'll see one shortly.
posted by ctmf at 11:48 AM on July 4, 2017 [37 favorites]


/anything speaking to white men right now is to be scrutinized with a laser beam
posted by infini at 11:59 AM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]




It's pretty easy to pick up on alt-right language, and similarly on themes derived from the FOX-iverse. First mention of Benghazi, voter fraud, Pepe or "cucks" = date over immediately.


I have a few Canadian flags as well as these ones. I also have a climate denial hoax flag. Last one, and thankfully it happened before a date was planned was `gawd carbon tax, just a scheme Al Gore made up to make himself richer.` Now I`m not sure how in the hell a carbon tax in Ontario is going to get to Al Gore but I don`t have any motivation to find out. It was amazing how immediate the loss of attraction was. Instantaneous.
posted by Jalliah at 12:02 PM on July 4, 2017 [21 favorites]


I once broke off a dating relationship years ago because the young woman casually dropped a comment about not being able to stand those n-words on our third date. Supporting a guy who wants everybody to hate everybody else just to give himself cover for ripping everybody off feels like less of a moral dilemma than that. I felt like maybe I'd failed in my responsibility for responding to white racism by just dropping her without explanation instead of trying to persuade her to rethink her attitudes, but dammit, maybe there's really just no point in trying with these people anymore.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:10 PM on July 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


The sad part is that they've whipped themselves up into a emotion driven frenzy (using all behavioural design knowledge of the very best masters) and thus, now, are beyond reason.
posted by infini at 12:24 PM on July 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm not really even much of a Springsteen fan, and even I know he constantly spoke out against Reagan back in the day. I don't think he's ever been a Republican, despite his White All-American Guy image, but I suppose that might be possible to miss if all you know about him is the songs they play over and over and over again on classic rock radio.
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:28 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Having watched It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, yes.

...that's Charlie work.


Strenuous disagreement. Trump isn't a Charlie, he's a Dennis. This whole nightmare has followed the D.E.N.N.I.S. system pretty closely even.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:29 PM on July 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


One can make an argument that Feinstein is no longer a good representative for California for any number of policy and engagement reasons. I'm okay with that. But one offering her being a "career politician" as a reason is just saying that one does not value experience and dedication. This is part of what got us Trump: republican primary voters decided that Trump's lack of those qualities wasn't important (enough). It's time honored populist BS. Being a good elected official is hard and takes practice. Failing previous elected experience, it requires talent, related skills (which required practice!) and excellent advisors.
posted by R343L at 12:29 PM on July 4, 2017 [50 favorites]


And oh God, I could never date anyone who voted for Trump or tried to pull that "both sides suck" or "but her emails!" shit*. I don't know that I could even be friends with them, especially now that he's had six months to demonstrate that he is in fact exactly the sort of President anyone with a lick of sense could see he was going to be.

* I'm Canadian and married, but still
posted by The Card Cheat at 12:35 PM on July 4, 2017 [21 favorites]


... I should totally join Tinder and just have my pic be me wearing a Hillary 2016 shirt...
posted by Justinian at 12:39 PM on July 4, 2017 [45 favorites]


A few years ago I went out a few times with a guy who, on our third date, announced that he thought education was pointless and tried to make me guess how much he earned (among other egregious WTFery). It has now occurred to me that he almost certainly voted for Trump.

I already knew I'd dodged a serious bullet by dumping him after that night, but I'm appreciative all over again now.
posted by Superplin at 12:41 PM on July 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


... I should totally join Tinder and just have my pic be me wearing a Hillary 2016 shirt...

Would we receive reports on the Justinian Current Swiping Level?
posted by zachlipton at 12:48 PM on July 4, 2017 [37 favorites]


Hell it was Springsteen coming out against Reagan that made me listen to his music with fresh ears in the 80s.

Weird coincidence, but Tom Waits' "Jersey Girl" (which I mentioned earlier in this thread) released in 1980 on Heart Attack and Vine) was the B side of Springsteen's major first single off Born In the USA, "Dancing in the Dark," in 1984 (it hit #2). Hearing his live cover of the Waits song on that release led to my discovery of Tom Waits, and left me impressed that Springsteen would cover the work of an even better songwriter who wasn't dead or retired (and do so convincingly, it's a great version, really different from Waits' own).
posted by spitbull at 12:56 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


... I should totally join Tinder and just have my pic be me wearing a Hillary 2016 shirt...

I won't do this since I'm married. But, if younger / single, I'd be tempted to A/B test Hillary shirt vs. Bernie shirt. It'd be the primaries all over again, only sexier.
posted by honestcoyote at 12:56 PM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Talking Points Memo has a fun investigation into the source of Trump's recent retweet, Jacob Wohl, who is also a con-artist and general Proto-Trump.

We know this president gained his position through fraud, hatred and making false claims. There will now be a whole new generation trying to do the same thing. They grow up so fast.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:57 PM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


You know it's Trump or a buddy that wants to break this rule right now.

Either that or he's just going down a list of everything Obama did and undoing it one by one without even knowing what it is. Pretty soon he's going to run out of regulations and have to start taking back Presidential Medals of Freedom. Speaking of Springsteen.
posted by ctmf at 1:02 PM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Would there be a better way to say "Fuck You" to Chris Christie?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:14 PM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Try the simple "fuck you Chris Christie you fucking fuck." I find that one satisfying.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:26 PM on July 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


That's actually just how I order meatloaf now.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:30 PM on July 4, 2017 [50 favorites]


Chris Christie, after all his torturous manoeuvrings and swallowing of pride which pretty much destroyed his political career, will forever be associated with meatloaf. Well done, sir, well done.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 1:47 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


The thing about "Born in the USA" is that in fact it's that song that a GOP presidential nominee (I want to say Reagan but I could be wrong) was using during his rallies, until Springsteen complained. Talk about not listening to the lyrics! Springsteen has always been anti-authoritarian, pro-working man.

But a lot of his fans do not actually listen to the lyrics, they just want to wave their arms and jump around to the anthems.
posted by suelac at 1:47 PM on July 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


We know this president gained his position through fraud, hatred and making false claims. There will now be a whole new generation trying to do the same thing.

They're leaving out Step 1, though: Inherit enough money to insulate yourself from consequences.
posted by Etrigan at 1:48 PM on July 4, 2017 [25 favorites]


My day has been made significantly better by this Twitter thread:

@NoTotally: NYT has a whole-ass genre of sad white people staring pensively out window in darkened room stories
posted by bibliowench at 2:06 PM on July 4, 2017 [47 favorites]


Why Conservative Intellectuals Are Pledging Loyalty to General Trump
Trump, then, is justified with the argument that politics is war, and that liberals are not just folks with a different political opinion, but an enemy to be destroyed. Such anti-liberalism brought Trump to power, but now the partisan need to defend Trump helps bolster anti-liberalism, not to mention anti–Never Trumpism. After all, if your animating mission in life isn’t to destroy liberalism, you might start asking questions about Trump’s competence and worry about the manifest disarray of his administration.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:18 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Did you just write that?

I was channelling dear, dear Larry, so it was more taking dictation.

I don't use anything I say on MeFi outside, so anyone's free to do with whatever, whatever. But I've had bits of the Shakespeare Play About Trump floating around in my head for a bit, because All This is every bit as subtle and overblown as any Elizabethan or Stuart - the characters, the clash of kingdoms, the unbelievable plots, humanity being so blastedly human... I do hope someone has a go at it.
posted by Devonian at 2:18 PM on July 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


people who say "we don't let politics get in the way of our relationship/marriage"

Good for them and all, I agree on that point. But for me, politics has veered so far into identity in this country at this point that I see ever-decreasing middle ground for personal relations.


Yeah, at this point, it's like saying "let's ignore the fact that our worldviews are diametrically opposed and we don't agree on the fundamentals of what separates right from wrong."
posted by diogenes at 2:22 PM on July 4, 2017 [43 favorites]


a GOP presidential nominee (I want to say Reagan but I could be wrong) was using during his rallies

It was Reagan. He wasn't the only Republican to misunderstand the music of the kids these days.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:25 PM on July 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


When we go see the fireworks in downtown Indianapolis tonight, at least one, probably several, people will play Q95's insipid medley of patriotic songs simulcasted with the show. I will watch with a mixture of complex and conflicted feelings about my faded patriotism, the terrible plight of this country I love, and the long fight ahead to take it back from the forces of evil. At one point during the patriotic medley, the truly awful "Proud to be an American" will give way to "Born in the USA" (I don't think they've changed the medley in at least 10 years.) Then I will again grimly chuckle to myself. Idiots.
posted by double block and bleed at 3:24 PM on July 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


the truly awful "Proud to be an American"

that is an odd way to spell "unfathomably execrable"
posted by thelonius at 3:33 PM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


I totally get and understand that a golf-playing Trump means he is not creating havoc and turmoil within America, but a less than fully engaged Trump regime in the wider world is having real, long-lasting, and damaging consequences for America and its national interests. While he plays golf, the adults in the real world see massive opportunities to advance their own interests and agendas.
For example, take this article by Simon Tisdall in The Guardian, entitled, China-Russia diplomatic double act exposes Trump's crudeness.
The leaders of China and Russia have vowed to work together to peacefully defuse the deepening crisis over North Korea’s nuclear and missile programmes – a diplomatic double act that contrasts sharply with Donald Trump’s crude threats and pressure tactics.

The joint declaration reflected a broader, ongoing strategic Sino-Russian alignment that has passed largely unremarked in the west. It has been encouraged by Trump’s often erratic, unfocused behaviour, and the resulting opportunities and dangers arising from weakened American global leadership.[emphasis mine]
I don't see how a strong Sino-Russian axis is good for America. Putin knew exactly what he was doing by interfering in, and undermining, the American electoral system so the Trump could become President.
posted by vac2003 at 3:48 PM on July 4, 2017 [38 favorites]


I don't see how a strong Sino-Russian axis is good for America.
I don't see how anything "good for America" right now is good for humanity. America has been less "The Good Guys" than the "Not As Bad Guys" for my entire lifetime (and I'm older than most MeFites). And I've said before that a 'Trump-like' President has been inevitable for some time, and his image as a 'safe to laugh at' public figure rather than a criminal evildoer put him at the top of the category. And when you look at the truths behind the fabricated American History we have been taught (the current East St. Louis pogrom thread is a true public service), we see that Donald Trump is the Most Truly American President.

Doonesbury's syndicated rerun strips are doing a story arc right now from 1989 about the cast's resident artist getting a commission to paint murals in the bathrooms of Trump's massive yacht...
"He's looking for scenes of epic grandeur. In the master bath, he wants the parting of the Red Sea. In his wife's boudoir, the coronation of Catherine the Great..." "What's that scene over the tub?" "Um... I believe that's the 1981 eviction of his rent control tenants."
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:08 PM on July 4, 2017 [28 favorites]


I don't see how a strong Sino-Russian axis is good for America. Putin knew exactly what he was doing by interfering in, and undermining, the American electoral system so the Trump could become President.

Longterm it's not good for America and likely the rest of the world. Short-term Trump's flakiness and this alliance it may save us all from nuclear anniliation. That's the crux of it. Trump regardless of who or what got him in office is not in anyway capable of dealing with NK. He's more likely to make the whole situation worse. He has no understanding of politics or diplomacy beyond bully level big stick threats.
America as an international actor is not what it was a year ago unfortunately and is more dangerous then helpful right now. The more he stays out of this the better. Maybe there are those in his admin or government who are capable and can do something but not with Trump involved.

This in now a world where hearing that China and Russia have been talking about how to deal with NK makes me feel some relief. And then I head shake because holy hell if you had told me last year I'd be thinking this I wouldn't have believed it.
posted by Jalliah at 4:15 PM on July 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Putin knew exactly what he was doing by interfering in, and undermining, the American electoral system so the Trump could become President.

Putin won WW3 while 50% of America cheered him on. Trump is not capable of doing anything "good for America", and that was the whole point of Putin's interference.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:22 PM on July 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


I liked this Slate article on how the cabinet confirmation process has changed because of this administration, perhaps permanently: Confirmation, Inc.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:24 PM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]






Or as one headline I saw had it, "Trump literally outclassed by HanAssholeSolo."

Link contains full text of apology.
posted by spitbull at 4:37 PM on July 4, 2017 [38 favorites]


Because friends have benefits: U.S. no longer a 'friend' in Merkel election program
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:49 PM on July 4, 2017


Of course the theory on Reddit, where HanAssholeSolo has gone dark and removed all his posts, is that this is a pre-emptive apology in fear of being doxxed.

I sometimes wonder how many anonymous Trump-loving cretins online have real jobs or reputations that might be at risk if their neighbors or bosses knew they stayed up nights making racist memes.
posted by spitbull at 4:51 PM on July 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


If he were to be doxxed, it's pretty likely it would have been one of his erstwhile comrades what done it. Now it's even more likely, of course.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:09 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Every time some douchelord gets outed as a heinous troll it's always some random Joe Cubicle with a wife and kids who had no idea their loved one's hobby was being a reddit/chan shitposter.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:20 PM on July 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


This in now a world where hearing that China and Russia have been talking about how to deal with NK makes me feel some relief.

I was reading all this stuff and found myself thinking, "Jesus Christ, we may need Putin to rein Trump in." And then the cognitive dissonance hit me so hard I thought I was going to have a seizure.
posted by worldswalker at 5:23 PM on July 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Why is it "Han Assholesolo," why isn't it "Han Asshole-o," how could he try for that and not get it? he ruined the dumb pun in his own stupid jokename with an extra "sol" for no reason and now he's an internationally famed representative of the USA. When do we find bottom with this stupid American fuckery? Is there nothing too dumb for us to do? Canada and Mexico should invent a giant jigsaw and saw us off at the borders and shove us out to sea.
posted by Don Pepino at 5:35 PM on July 4, 2017 [53 favorites]


Every time some douchelord gets outed as a heinous troll it's always some random Joe Cubicle with a wife and kids who had no idea their loved one's hobby was being a reddit/chan shitposter.

"It was a prank, nothing more," claimed area man Joseph "HanAssholeSolo" Schmoe.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:38 PM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


The douchery is coming from inside the house.
posted by emjaybee at 5:39 PM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


it's always some random Joe Cubicle with a wife and kids

Or, you know, a New Hampshire State Representative.

#doxxallthetrolls
posted by spitbull at 5:41 PM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why is it "Han Assholesolo," why isn't it "Han Asshole-o"

To be fair, he probably wasn't thinking he'd be retweeted by the president when he came up with that. He's just an asshole.
posted by spitbull at 5:45 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


truly awful "Proud to be an American"

You've just reminded me that for reasons lost to history (it's been almost sixteen years, after all), I was in attendance at some kind of performance thing a few months after September 11th, 2001 in Aurora, Colorado.

The only act I remember all these years later was a number of people in American-flag cowboy shirts and cowboy hats performing a stiff, awkward synchronized American flag waving routine to the tune of "Proud to be an American".

I just watched quietly and didn't say anything the rest of the night--let them deal with things their own way, you know? But oh my god, how I cringed on the inside.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:46 PM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


To be fair, he probably wasn't thinking he'd be retweeted by the president when he came up with that. He's just an asshole.

How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?
posted by tocts at 5:48 PM on July 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


That apology was somewhat sincere but very complicated. And a little like a recent story arc on South Park. Fella needs help.
posted by vrakatar at 5:50 PM on July 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Another video making the rounds on Twitter this evening shows Trump apparently confused about where his limo is as he deplanes from AF1 and walks by his limo literally right at the bottom of the stairs. (Link to @dcpoll for Fox News video.)
posted by spitbull at 6:04 PM on July 4, 2017 [32 favorites]


So Merkel has changed the wording from "most important friend" to "most important partner"? Isn't she aware of Trump's long-held reputation of screwing over his business partners?
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:15 PM on July 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Oh, *that* limo! The one right in front of the plane. With the Presidential Seal on the door. Huh!"
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:23 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just wanted to go on record this Fourth of July as saying Donald Trump sucks
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:32 PM on July 4, 2017 [69 favorites]


I have been pondering, this day, over the aphorism "You get the government you deserve."

I am prepared to go on record and say that aphorism's an ass.
posted by darkstar at 6:52 PM on July 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


vrakatar: That apology was somewhat sincere but very complicated. And a little like a recent story arc on South Park. Fella needs help.

Apparently the apology came *after* CNN identified the real identity of HanAssholeSolo and reached out to him for comment. There's an upcoming story and interview. So it seems like 100% damage control.
posted by bluecore at 6:56 PM on July 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


Area man is surprised internet is real life. Film at 11.
posted by zachlipton at 6:59 PM on July 4, 2017 [23 favorites]


From the Twitter comments:

"Made this apology in under 12 parsecs."
posted by darkstar at 7:02 PM on July 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Many people get the government they deserve, but the rest of us get it too.
posted by uosuaq at 7:03 PM on July 4, 2017 [20 favorites]


Another video making the rounds on Twitter this evening shows Trump apparently confused about where his limo is [...]

But it also shows him going down the stairs all by himself, which is kind of Presidential, at least for 2017.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:06 PM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yep, CNN (Andrew Kaczynski, aka "KFile") up with a story now about "How CNN Found" HanAssholeSolo's identity. Which by the way they declined to publicize.

The apology came after CNN's KFile identified the man behind "HanA**holeSolo." Using identifying information that "HanA**holeSolo" posted on Reddit, KFile was able to determine key biographical details, to find the man's name using a Facebook search and ultimately corroborate details he had made available on Reddit.

So now who can make a GIF of CNN pulling a reverse double throttle corkscrew slam on Trump's ass?
posted by spitbull at 7:11 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


That apology sounds 100% "ohshitshitshitshit what can I say to make this disappear forever?" You do not post on T_D for months and respond to Dolt 45 retweeting you with glee and then in under 48 hours suddenly sprout a rainbow coalition of best friends and sincere remorse for your behavior.

Nope. I will take Insincere Fauxpologies for $1000, Alex.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:13 PM on July 4, 2017 [45 favorites]


I would like to second the motion of Ray Walston, Luck Dragon. I'd do it by favorite, but Trump has stolen that from some of us. (Windows Firefox users, maybe? We probably all voted for Hillary.) My anecdota is that my neighbors' fireworks displays are muted. So conflicted.
posted by maxwelton at 7:15 PM on July 4, 2017


Another tasty lick from the CNN article about HanAssholeSolo (I can't believe I just wrote that):

CNN is not publishing "HanA**holeSolo's" name because he is a private citizen who has issued an extensive statement of apology, showed his remorse by saying he has taken down all his offending posts, and because he said he is not going to repeat this ugly behavior on social media again. In addition, he said his statement could serve as an example to others not to do the same.

CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change.


Downright Trumpian in its implied threat. I approve.
posted by spitbull at 7:18 PM on July 4, 2017 [42 favorites]


The completely not veiled threat was my favorite part, too.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:21 PM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Typical fake media with their unnamed sources.
posted by uosuaq at 7:21 PM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


I celebrated the 4th by eating Mexican food with a large, hilarious, diverse group of friends, as one does. No mention of it being the 4th the whole time but a few great "fuck Trump" themed witticisms. Best possible 4th under the present circumstances.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:22 PM on July 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


It looked to me like he thought he was going to a podium to give a speech or something, but someone said, no, the car. You get in the car now.
posted by ctmf at 7:26 PM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


If CNN had not directly been the target of both the wrestling GIf and the much more despicable anti-Semitic one that came to light on Reddit, I'd have a problem with their stance as journalism. But if you saw the latter image you could totally understand a little humiliating aggression toward the Solo asshole.

Of course someone else will likely doxx him anyway. CNN gets to appear magnanimous.
posted by spitbull at 7:33 PM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


I actually dislike that!!! If naming him is newsworthy then do it. If not, then don't. It's not up to CNN to enforce good behavior on Reddit.

Usually the power of the press is mostly imaginary. This may be one of those rare exceptions. It may not be up to CNN to enforce good behaviour on Reddit but I am beyond thrilled that this one time CNN has an opportunity to encourage an asshole to stop acting like an asshole and to stop leading by bad example on Reddit. I love that, and I am all for that.
posted by Bella Donna at 7:35 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** Kobach data request -- States declining in part or whole to comply with the Kobach voter info request is now up to 44.

** AHCA/BCRA -- Kaiser Family Foundation poll finds 55% unfavorable views of Senate plan, 30% favorable. In fact, more have "very unfavorable" at 38%, than total favorable.

** Odds & ends:
-- 2016 factoids: 96.7% of House incumbents seeking re-election won; 93.1% of Senators, 95.2% of statehouse reps.

-- Kamala Harris is aggressively fundraising for 2018 candidates, including McCaskill, Tester, and Warren.

-- SurveyMonkey poll: Americans trust CNN over Trump 50-42. But giant party discrepancy: Dems are 91-5, GOP 9-89.

-- Three NH state House reps have switched their party affiliation to Libertarian this year (two from GOP, one from Dem). They are the only Libertarian state reps in the country. Note that this is the New Hampshire House, which by virtue of being absolutely enormous and paying basically nothing, tends to attract...colorful folks.

-- One of Texas's largest counties is moving back to all paper voting.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:35 PM on July 4, 2017 [41 favorites]


That apology sounds 100% "ohshitshitshitshit what can I say to make this disappear forever?" You do not post on T_D for months and respond to Dolt 45 retweeting you with glee and then in under 48 hours suddenly sprout a rainbow coalition of best friends and sincere remorse for your behavior.

No indeed. HanAssholeSolo has deleted his Reddit account, but the ADL has posted a representative selection of his longstanding racism, anti-semitism, xenophobia, and bigotry. He's been shitposting hatred on /r/TheDonald for a year and a half now but has a crisis of conscience only when he's about to be revealed as a hate-monger to the general public. His apology is about as sincere as his fellow (literal) journalist-basher Greg Gianforte.

Meanwhile, the journalist who exposed the racist creator of Trump’s CNN tweet gets death threats.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:40 PM on July 4, 2017 [37 favorites]


I'm willing to believe that a white male shitposting online had no clue that consequences exist or that online is real life. But equating trolling to an addiction is the part where he is not actually taking personal responsibility for his behavior, therefore his apology is invalid. As such, CNN should have identified him so that his online persona as a white nationalist is forever associated with his "real" life.
posted by xyzzy at 7:49 PM on July 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


I would've respected them more for outing him than threatening to do so. Trump made him news. Perfectly legitimate to identify him. If that caused him to lose his job or suffer some other consequences, who the fuck cares. The internet is real life.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:54 PM on July 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


Let's stop calling these assholes "white nationalists", it makes them sound like a bake sale. Call them nazis or racists. One day the word "trumpist" will enter the dictionary meaning "an angry inbred uneducated white male racist who also hates women and immigrants."
posted by phliar at 7:55 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Consequences of supporting and amplifying Trump's hatred should carry over to individuals just like the campaigns against Brietbart's advertisers. Maybe if there start being real consequences to getting your hate-meme picked up by Trump's Twitter it'll eventually have a deterrent effect.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 PM on July 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Here is a feel good story of a cowardly Congressman getting his comeuppance...

Esme Murphy for WCCO: Protestors Take Rep. Paulsen’s Parade Spot After No-Show
“Our congressman didn’t show, so we are here instead,” said Clara Severson, who said she lives in Paulsen’s district.

She added: “He never has town halls, he didn’t show up to this, so we decided to take his place.”

Swon called the protesters “parade crashers” and said they should not have taken the congressman’s spot.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:56 PM on July 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


The lesson for all the other trolls is that they can wave off years of hateful shit with an apology and suffer zero consequences.
posted by Behemoth at 7:57 PM on July 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


They'll probably copy and paste the same apology (with 100 percent insincerity).
posted by puddledork at 8:03 PM on July 4, 2017




Alexandra Petri Is The Only Op-Ed Columnist America Needs Right Now
I spend many mornings screaming at my radio while NPR tries to lull me back into business as usual with its warm and soothing commuter-friendly tones. I don’t want All Things Considered, I want Some Things Rejected Outright.

If mainstream media is, by definition, not up to the task of heightened alarm, who is left to give voice to our anger and frustration? The task usually falls to blogs like Deadspin and Jezebel—the reincarnation of Gawker in all but name—sites like Reductress and The Onion, and television hosts like Samantha Bee, John Oliver, and Trevor Noah. But the opinion pages have their own specialized form of satire, skewering the authority of the op-ed writer who, as Nolan writes, “has more job security than the Supreme Court.” And the best of them all is Alexandra Petri of the Washington Post.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:16 PM on July 4, 2017 [71 favorites]


I spend many mornings screaming at my radio while NPR tries to lull me back into business as usual with its warm and soothing commuter-friendly tones. I don’t want All Things Considered, I want Some Things Rejected Outright.

THANK you.
posted by darkstar at 8:22 PM on July 4, 2017 [76 favorites]


" I've heard this argument all my life, even from left-leaning people. As a teenager I assumed it referred to the urban-rural divide and that there must be something to it if educated people were claiming it. In my 20s I decided it was a weak excuse not to try. Only just now have I realized it originated as light code for "we'd have to give services to black people.""

People say it in two ways, though. One way is as code for "we'd have to give services to black people." The other way is by people familiar with the comparative government scholarship, often who are on the front lines of fighting for the expansion of the welfare state in the US, who ruefully say, "We can't just be Sweden because we're a very large and very diverse country." Because all the scholarship does show that the larger a country is, and the more diverse (racially, but also economically, regionally, etc.) it is, the harder it is to get a comprehensive social safety net in place. Basically all 10 million Swedes feel they have a lot in common (and they do!); but 320 million Americans live in a wild diversity of places, cultures, backgrounds, races, etc. I mean there's close to 13 million people in Illinois and plenty of people in Chicago and the suburbs can't even IMAGINE what it's like to live downstate (even in the cities!), and reject adequate downstate school funding because if those of us south of I-80 had made appropriate life choices, we'd live in the suburbs and have better jobs and not need school funding equalization; it's a sign of laziness and backwardsness to live downstate. And all kinds of downstaters who are convinced you get shot as soon as you cross the city limits into Chicago and refuse to bail out Chicago because the only people who live there are criminals and con men who have made terrible life choices to scam us hardworkin' downstate folk.

A lot of lefties saying that are describing a simple and common barrier that confounds even state-level attempts to promote greater equity in the US, not approving of the barrier. People ALL THE TIME are like "Let's make a school system like Finland!" but one of the big reasons we can't is that there's 5 million people in Finland who by and large share the same cultural background and social expectations. In the US, you have to build a way, way, way more diverse coalition, which requires a much larger variety of arguments to get different groups on board, and you have to serve much more diverse populations (who need different things from schools, for example), so you can't "one-size-fits-all" it as much as you can in Finland or Sweden.

Some of this is totally just being such a big country -- if you're a school reformer in Illinois, you need plans for Chicago (third largest district in the country); the suburbs; small urban areas downstate (Rockford, Peoria); small suburban areas downstate; small rural; and MICRO rural where the whole county may have 2400 people in it. And then you're going to need plans for English-speaking students and ESL students, some of whom will be children of high-skilled migrants (Indian doctors, Chinese programmers), but others of whom will be children of migratory agricultural laborers. And you're going to need plans to deal with kids from extremely scholastically demanding backgrounds, and kids from backgrounds where school is devalued, and kids from backgrounds where school is respected but women aren't allowed to be in charge of men or boys and all the teachers are female and parents are telling their sons they don't have to do homework because a woman assigned it. And then you're going to have to do that for all 50 states. So it's hard to put a reform through that everyone sees as beneficial because it's hard to serve all groups adequately.

But yeah a bunch of it is definitely people who are like, "Fuck you, city-dwellers/rural-people/black people/immigrants/people who are not like me, I will never vote for welfare/school funding/Medicaid because some of THOSE PEOPLE will get it and only MY PEOPLE deserve it."
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:40 PM on July 4, 2017 [65 favorites]


People ALL THE TIME are like "Let's make a school system like Finland!" but one of the big reasons we can't is that there's 5 million people in Finland who by and large share the same cultural background and social expectations.

Then again, there's Massachusetts, which, yes, is actually a pretty small place, but which certainly has plenty of challenges related to diverse student populations, at least in its cities. The problem is you probably can't replicate Massachusetts in most other states, because it would take both a commitment to public schools and the willingness to put more money into them.
posted by adamg at 8:48 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Federal Agents Just Paid a Visit to Kathy Griffin — And Grilled Her for Over an Hour

I know it's a blip on the radar with everything else going on, but I'm disturbed that Trump sent his goons to intimidate her (and apparently the investigation is still open). Especially since she apologized/clarified, I don't see how anyone could legally assert that her plastic doll head photos constituted an actual threat, or incitement to violence.
posted by prosopagnosia at 8:48 PM on July 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


The problem is you probably can't replicate Massachusetts

I'll be in my lab.
posted by vrakatar at 8:53 PM on July 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


The first thing I thought of when I saw that limo video was the way we first knew for sure my father, who had Alzheimer's, had something seriously wrong with him: he went to answer the doorbell and couldn't remember where the front door was. But after remembering how the Right dragged Clinton after her incident at the 9/11 ceremony, I've been watching the video and trying to come up with some reasonable explanation, other than dementia, for 45's behavior. I can't. I mean, I guess it's theoretically possible that he legitimately thought he needed to get into a different car, but I don't see how.
posted by holborne at 9:03 PM on July 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'll be in my lab.

They actually have cloned Massachusetts, but it ended up this weird place that drinks this stuff called coffee milk.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:05 PM on July 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


Federal Agents Just Paid a Visit to Kathy Griffin — And Grilled Her for Over an Hour

What really? That was like 6 months ago in Trump time. It took them that long? I guess when you put "harass celebrity woman for fun" on your todo list it often gets pushed back behind more important tasks, like not prosecuting cops and ignoring financial crimes.
posted by dis_integration at 9:15 PM on July 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


The first thing I thought of when I saw that limo video was the way we first knew for sure my father, who had Alzheimer's, had something seriously wrong with him: he went to answer the doorbell and couldn't remember where the front door was. But after remembering how the Right dragged Clinton after her incident at the 9/11 ceremony, I've been watching the video and trying to come up with some reasonable explanation, other than dementia, for 45's behavior. I can't. I mean, I guess it's theoretically possible that he legitimately thought he needed to get into a different car, but I don't see how.

A few explanation I've read so far seem somewhat plausible but still are problematic.

One is that he thought he was supposed to go speak with someone or thought he was speaking and was looking for the podium. I have know idea if there's a reason I might think that. Has speaking when getting off a plane done before? Regardless even if it was that he was still confused because he wasn't supposed to speak and there was no podium.

Another is that one of his people told him he was supposed to do something else besides getting in the car and they were the ones that were wrong.

Weird regardless.
posted by Jalliah at 9:17 PM on July 4, 2017


I'm not really even much of a Springsteen fan, and even I know he constantly spoke out against Reagan back in the day. I don't think he's ever been a Republican, despite his White All-American Guy image, but I suppose that might be possible to miss if all you know about him is the songs they play over and over and over again on classic rock radio.

i just dunno. listening with even 1/2 an ear reveals Springsteen is all about American Exceptionalism. As in how exceptionally fucked up America is.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:48 PM on July 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


Much as I loathe doing anything that might be seen as defending that asshole: I can't count the number of times I've done something so simply boneheaded as his limo mistake 'cause I wasn't paying attention. I once came home from a day of teaching, went through the kitchen, completely missed the brand new giant barbecue grill my girlfriend had just bought me & set out right in the middle of said kitchen, and walked out with a soda in my hand. She had to point it out to me. I was maybe 34.

This is only troubling if it's part of a pattern of clueless behavior showing a lack of mental acuity and...

...oh. Huh.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:53 PM on July 4, 2017 [23 favorites]


Especially since she apologized/clarified, I don't see how anyone could legally assert that her plastic doll head photos constituted an actual threat, or incitement to violence.
Eh, I'm actually fine with the egalitarian nature of how the USSS deals with threats to the President. Famous, anonymous, white, black, rich, poor, powerful, inconsequential; if you threaten the President, you get a visit. This was also true of the USSS speaking with 45 and his security team over his subtle incitements to violence against a presidential candidate who was/is nonetheless a USSS protectee.
posted by xyzzy at 10:41 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


I would hope Griffin has an attorney on call for the next time they decide to interview her, if they do decide to do that again. Aside from the need for legal help her, an attorney would likely mean the end of the "investigation." Basically, it would be her saying she's done fucking around with them and they can either charge her (with...what exactly that won't get laughed out of court) or leave her alone.
posted by azpenguin at 10:43 PM on July 4, 2017


charge her (with...what exactly ...]

Lying to investigators would be the usual FBI and USSS m.o. She already talked to them once without an attorney, chances of not saying anything they could pursue if they felt like being dicks is near zero even if there's no underlying crime.
posted by ctmf at 10:52 PM on July 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


xyzzy: Famous, anonymous, white, black, rich, poor, powerful, inconsequential; if you threaten the President, you get a visit.

Did all the people who hung or burned an effigy of Obama get such a visit? If not, what's the difference?
posted by Too-Ticky at 10:53 PM on July 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


Back in the 90s, you know, when we had the most deadly terror attack on American soil prior to 9/11, you could buy matching Bill and Hilary Clinton targets at every gun shop. So no, the USSS does not investigate every questionable work of art in an egalitarian fashion.
posted by stet at 10:55 PM on July 4, 2017 [46 favorites]


Brooke Seipel, The Hill: Auschwitz Memorial condemns GOP rep who filmed video in gas chambers

Here's the selfie-video from Rep. Clay Higgins (R - LA), in which he misrepresents and mispronounces his way through a personal tour of Auschwitz, complete with schmaltzy string accompaniment. Ugly stuff. Quote: "This is why Homeland Security must be squared away. Why our military must be invincible."

No better way to cap off this darkest 4th of July than to watch the disrespectful exploitation of the site of your ancestors' murder for cheap political points, all in the support and service of a new fascist regime.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:55 PM on July 4, 2017 [55 favorites]


Did all the people who hung or burned an effigy of Obama get such a visit? If not, what's the difference?
The USSS visits many, many people, including people who are making obviously political statements protected by free speech rights. One of the goals of these visits is to evaluate whether the person making the threats is mentally ill. But yeah, the USSS was extremely busy during Obama's presidency.
posted by xyzzy at 10:56 PM on July 4, 2017 [5 favorites]




I celebrated the 4th by eating Mexican food with a large, hilarious, diverse group of friends, as one does. No mention of it being the 4th the whole time but a few great "fuck Trump" themed witticisms. Best possible 4th under the present circumstances.

Yeah, more or less the same here. Had some friends/co-workers over for a BBQ up on the roof (sorry, Baltimore city code; I know grilling up on the roof is illegal, but feel free to get to me after you arrest the other several thousand people doing the same). All hyper-progressive and not really into the circle-jerk that is July 4, but always up for some drinks and good food.

We laugh to avoid crying. Or worse.
posted by CommonSense at 11:46 PM on July 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


The first episode of the new season of Huang's World, set in Washington, D.C. is awesome. The inauguration, interviews at Comet Pizza and immigrant-founded and other restaurants around the city, and a tense interview with white nationalist Jared Taylor. And it includes excerpts of a speech Huang gave at the beginning of the year, summarized elsewhere like so:
He talked about how his dad ran a steak house when Eddie was young—because Chinese food was too cheap to make a profit from—but that he always offered coupons for the prime rib because, as his dad explained, “no one is going to pay full price to buy steak from Chinese people. We have to compete on price…

“Eddie,” he went on, “immigrants can’t sell anything for full price in America.”

Twenty-something years later, the wildly successful son stood in a ballroom full of immigrants and those who support them and said, “My name is Eddie Huang. I was born in America, my ancestors are from China, and my parents were born in Taiwan. I sell Taiwanese guo bao for full fucking price.”
He relates the same story in his autobiographical book Fresh Off The Boat and the television show based on it. (previously)
posted by XMLicious at 12:40 AM on July 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


The last few days I got stuck on the terrifying thought that the more unpopular Trump gets, the more he's going to turn to his base, and I am just going tharn Watership Down style staring into the headlight-like implications of that.
posted by angrycat at 2:10 AM on July 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


I spent yesterday playing board games, including one of my favorites, Betrayal at House on the Hill. [game spoilers ahead] Purely by chance, the haunt scenario was "Make America Disintegrate Again," written by Zoë Quinn, about a presidential candidate who turns out to be an eldritch abomination trying to destroy the Earth.

We beat him.
posted by Faint of Butt at 4:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [32 favorites]


Robert Leonard op-ed for NYT: Want to Get Rid of Trump? Only Fox News Can Do It
They [ordinary Iowa Republicans] bend over backward to justify everything Mr. Trump does, largely because they don’t believe what anyone in the news media is telling them, except for maybe Fox News.

A prominent businessman here, for example, views the “whole fake Russian story” as “a coup attempt by the media.”
...
Fox News is always on the TV in diners and other restaurants. In bars, if there isn’t a game on, Fox News is there. If there are a couple of televisions or more, one will most likely be tuned to Fox. And it’s not only TV. It’s radio. Our big “blow torch” conservative radio station out of Des Moines blasts conservative indignation and self-righteousness for hours a day and serves up Sean Hannity for hours every night.
...
Mr. Hannity and other Fox hosts could provide cover for congressional Republicans to consider impeachment. If you believe that impeachment is a political and not a legal question, they need that cover. Right now, Mr. Hannity might have more power over an impeachment process than Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell.

Even if the investigation turns up clear evidence of presidential misconduct, I believe it would be impossible for the party to consider impeachment without Fox’s support. The first Republicans to even mention impeachment would probably be vilified by Fox and find themselves facing an angry constituency and a primary opponent next election. Yet if Fox turns, it’s inevitable. For reasons I do not understand, that network has that kind of power among most of the conservative rural voters I know."
Fox News started as the media arm of the Republican party. Now it runs the Republican party -- Republican politicians dare not cross Fox.

It hardly even matters what we protesters do or even what Trump does if most Republican voters lived in a world controlled in an almost Truman-show way by Fox News. They see only what Fox wants them to see.

I wonder to what extent it is intentional political strategy by Fox, vs just a side effect of Fox's attempts to make money exploiting the lowest common denominator.

Intentionally or by accident, Fox News is controlling our country now, by controlling the entire view of the world seen by rural and older voters.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:17 AM on July 5, 2017 [73 favorites]


"For reasons I do not understand, that network has that kind of power among most of the conservative rural voters I know."

Because it tells them they're not the racist, fascist bigots the rest of the world accurately sees them as. They'd rather be lied to than acknowledge the truth.
posted by chris24 at 4:27 AM on July 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


Watching the Reddit Trumpies freak out over CNN "blackmailing" HanAssholeSolo is rich fun. They are convinced it is illegal to doxx someone and CNN is being a bully for holding the threat of identity revelation over Asshole guy. These are guys who made a well publicized enemies list of liberal activists for your doxxing convenience a couple of months back and who cheered Trump using the National Enquirer as a club to shut Joe Scarborough and Mika Brzezinski up. They call liberals special snowflakes. But the second one of their own stands to (perfectly legally) lose the anonymity behind which he hid his racist hate speech they are wailing and moaning about being "bullied" by CNN.

Just so sweet.
posted by spitbull at 4:31 AM on July 5, 2017 [49 favorites]


Watching the Reddit Trumpies freak out over CNN "blackmailing" HanAssholeSolo is rich fun.

Not just Redditors. Even supposedly "serious" people like James Taranto, head of the WSJ OpEd page.

@jamestaranto
Any other examples of a news organization explaining a grant of anonymity then threatening in the next breath to burn the source?

----

Uh, he wasn't a source, he was the subject of the article/investigation. And as such they could've revealed who he was and didn't.
posted by chris24 at 4:40 AM on July 5, 2017 [41 favorites]


So NPR has done a reading of the Declaration of Independence every Fourth of July for the past twenty-nine years. It apparently didn't go over well with Trump supporters this year.
posted by Rykey at 4:40 AM on July 5, 2017 [38 favorites]


It really suggests to me the usefulness of liberal activists actually trying harder to doxx alt right trolls making racist memes and hate speech posts. Yoy have to wonder how many of them would fade away in fear of embarrassment and shaming and losing their jobs. The impunity of anonymity is behind a lot of what's so wrong about internet "free speech" anyway. And right wing trolls have deployed doxxing as a weapon countless times, usually with the goals of directing targeted hate speech and harassment. I have not been aware of any serious counter-effort at online vigilantism from the left, with the possible exception of Anonymous' efforts against KKK members, which seem to have ceased anyway.

How many auto salesmen, home repair contractors, dog groomers, middle managers for major corporations, pillars of their church, etc get out on Reddit or Twitter every night to spin tales of Pepe and Jewish bankers?

Maybe a concerted movement to shake the trees and see what falls out wearing a name tag is in order. Hanassholesolo seems to have made it fairly easy. Given how most of them don't seem all that bright IRL, there have to be thousands more like him who would cringe and delete everything and go to ground if they knew their mom or kids might find out what they do at that computer in the basement all night.
posted by spitbull at 4:42 AM on July 5, 2017 [46 favorites]


President Cheeto: Trade between China and North Korea grew almost 40% in the first quarter. So much for China working with us - but we had to give it a try!

Well northern hemisphere folks, been good knowing you. Would appreciate it if you could constrain yourselves to those low yield nukes so the fallout doesn't make it too far below the equator.
posted by PenDevil at 5:02 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Fox News started as the media arm of the Republican party. Now it runs the Republican party -- Republican politicians dare not cross Fox.

Remember when James Bond movie plots were rocket-landing-in-volcano fantasy and not oh-god-they-really-did-model-carver-after-murdoch reality?
posted by PenDevil at 5:06 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


The First Amendment guarantees the right of free expression to all American citizens. It does not exempt anyone from the consequences arising from what they choose to express.
posted by Sublimity at 5:08 AM on July 5, 2017 [49 favorites]


The First Amendment guarantees the right of free expression to all American citizens. It does not exempt anyone from the consequences arising from what they choose to express.

In the way that lots of people think that "But X is what I believe" makes X above criticism, they think "But I said X and I have Freedom of Speech!" works the same way.
posted by thelonius at 5:37 AM on July 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


There are lots of proximate causes for the Republican victory in 2016. (Russia, Comey, Fox, voter suppression, misogyny, tactical errors by Clinton, Republican lies about health care, Citizens United, the Koch brothers, talk radio and the end of the Fairness Doctrine, perception that the Democratic platform was "more of the same" as the middle class is dying while Trump ran on "change and against "elites", Democratic infighting, gerrymandering, the constitutional under representation of large states and the increasing percentage of Americans who live in them, low voter turn out, complacency, media "horse race"/reality show style coverage, I could go on...)

But the Atlantic really gets into the historical forces I think are underlying the larger trends... the reason Trump was close enough in the first place for those factors to collectively tip the balance...

Robert P Jones: Trump Can't Reverse the Decline of White Christian America
Nearly two-thirds (66 percent) of Trump voters, compared to only 22 percent of Clinton voters, agreed that “the 2016 election represented the last chance to stop America’s decline.”
...
Over the last eight years, the percentage of Americans who identify as white and Christian fell 11 percentage points, and support for same-sex marriage jumped 18 percentage points.
...
White evangelicals went from being overrepresented by five percentage points at the ballot box in 2008 to being overrepresented by nine percentage points in 2016. 
...
Donald Trump’s campaign painted a bleak portrait of America’s present, set against a bright, if monochromatic, vision of 1950s America restored. Hillary Clinton’ campaign, by contrast, sought to replace the first African American president with the first female president and embraced the multicultural future of 2050, the year the Census Bureau originally projected the United States would become a majority nonwhite nation. “Make American Great Again” and “Stronger Together,” the two campaigns’ competing slogans, became proxies for an epic battle over the changing face of America.
...
And...

In a New York Times op-ed shortly after the election, Isummarized the results of the election this way: “The waning numbers of white Christians in the country today may not have time on their side, but as the sun is slowly setting on the cultural world of White Christian America, they’ve managed, at least in this election, to rage against the dying of the light.”
I personally would add "rural" to "White and Christian" there (those three tend to be highly correlated anyway) in describing the disappearing demographic and way of life, but I really think this is the trend driving almost all of our politics right now (even a lot of anti reproductive choice stuff can be understood as an attempt to slow the decline of the white/Christian/rural population) and these are the terms in which historians will explain this period in our history.

Well okay maybe that combined with the soaring wealth inequality... But the latter is driving anger against politicians in both parties, while the demographic thing clearly was driving turn out for Trump only.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:38 AM on July 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


Judging from the mass Reddit freakout, they've all suddenly realized how long it would take for their managers to walk them out after reading their comment histories.
posted by Slackermagee at 5:44 AM on July 5, 2017 [58 favorites]


The First Amendment guarantees the right of free expression to all American citizens. It does not exempt anyone from the consequences arising from what they choose to express.

Well . . . at least until 1798. John Adams and the Federalists' Alien and Sedition Acts took down freedom of speech pronto, and also was the beginning of a rough handling of the political problem of immigrants and citizenship. It also made the Federalists feel better about our first illegal war, a naval middle finger to France (the 'Quasi War' 1798-1800) who we had decided not to pay our debts to. The more things change . . .
posted by rc3spencer at 5:48 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


POTUS left half an hour ago for his trip to Warsaw, Poland. On the plane with him: Melania, Gary Cohn, Hope Hicks, Keith Schiller. Also: H.R. McMaster, Jared Kushner, Dina Powell, Wilbur Ross, Steve Mnuchin, Sean Spicer, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Michael Anton, Josh Raffel. The country of Poland has promised Trump cheering crowds to greet him and people are being bussed in for that purpose.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:55 AM on July 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


people are being bussed in for that purpose

from where? Florida?
posted by thelonius at 6:00 AM on July 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


The country of Poland has promised Trump cheering crowds to greet him and people are being bussed in for that purpose.

Just like the old days...
posted by Devonian at 6:01 AM on July 5, 2017 [36 favorites]


Rural areas of Poland,

Interestingly, Poland, Hungary and Austria are the only EU countries to refuse to accept any refugees which gives them common ground with Trump.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:05 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


He needs an emergency infusion of cheering crowds, stat!
posted by Artw at 6:10 AM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


He needs an emergency infusion of cheering crowds, stat!

No! An emergency infusion of cheering crowds will kill him. He needs protests to live.
posted by Twain Device at 6:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


The Quasi War with France began *after* French privateers captured many US merchant ships trading with Britain and after the so-called XYZ Affair. The Alien and Sedition Acts were very bad news, but the response to *French* aggression was entirely justified. Hardly an illegal war.
posted by haiku warrior at 6:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Poland’s courting of Trump is a few supporters short of a picnic " from Remi Adekoya, The Guardian:

In what has to be acknowledged as wily diplomacy, the Law and Justice (PiS) government is appealing to the US president’s achilles heel: his vanity, reportedly luring him with promises of adoring crowds, in contrast to the chillier receptions he can expect in western Europe.

The ruling party is bussing in its supporters from all over Poland, encouraging them to take part in a “great patriotic picnic” on the occasion of Trump’s visit. The idea is to make the big man feel as good about himself as possible, which will hopefully benefit Poland in some way, such as a more categorical assertion that Nato would – under US leadership – protect Poland from any aggression from Moscow.

PiS is working hard to tickle Trump’s ego. The party’s leader and Poland’s most important politician, Jarosław Kaczyński, described Trump’s decision to visit Warsaw as a “new success” for Poland. “[Others] envy it, the British are attacking us because of it.”


Side note: the journalist is described as Nigerian/Polish, and there are a growing number of bi racial Nigerian/East Europeans, due to the 70/80/90s thing of African students gaining scholarships to study medicine in particular, in the Eastern Bloc. There's a well-healed area of Lagos now nicknamed Little Russia where lots of wives and families of Nigerian/Russian/East European origin live.
posted by glasseyes at 6:18 AM on July 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Some remarks about the appropriateness of the ruling party's acronym with regard to Trumpish affairs in the comments to that article.
posted by glasseyes at 6:22 AM on July 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Hardly an illegal war.
Well, undeclared war for sure.
French aggression occurred after we declared 'neutrality' in it's conflict with Great Britain . . but signed the Jay Treaty (1795, another political move by the Federalists) getting some wonderful big payments from Britain, gaining back some forts and trading on 'most-favored-nation' status, and continuing to permit the British navy to impress sailors from us.
It was a Federalist power move against the Jeffersonians, and a middle finger to the new France.
posted by rc3spencer at 6:23 AM on July 5, 2017


Poland in some way, such as a more categorical assertion that Nato would – under US leadership – protect Poland from any aggression from Moscow.

I'm just waiting for the impending "Why isn't Poland just part of Russia anyway" DJT tweet. After all, his GOP brethren have started doubting the sovereignty of other countries already.
posted by PenDevil at 6:24 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's so easy to tweak that - "Fuck all of us, we deserve it.

Unfortunately rather than tweaking it to "unless we work hard", they usually tweak it to "and **ESPECIALLY** fuck Frank, cuz he's gay, and Mary cuz she's uppity, and Bob 'cuz he's black".
posted by sotonohito at 6:28 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


undeclared war

Metafilter pays off again. Reaching a 1790s American war from current politics cheers me up, unaccountably.
posted by kingless at 6:39 AM on July 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


After all, his GOP brethren have started doubting the sovereignty of other countries already.

Jesus, is Russia paying that guy to lobby for regional instability or what?
posted by Artw at 6:42 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does Trump not read these stories about how everyone is treating him like a spoiled toddler who needs to be pacified so he won't have a meltdown? Or do his handlers keep them away from him, or spin them as proof that everyone is impressed and intimidated by his awesome awesomeness?
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:47 AM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Does Trump not read these stories about how everyone is treating him like a spoiled toddler who needs to be pacified so he won't have a meltdown? Or do his handlers keep them away from him, or spin them as proof that everyone is impressed and intimidated by his awesome awesomeness?

He doesn't believe any story that casts him in a bad light. That's been a pretty consistent motif of his.
posted by Etrigan at 6:53 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


So much for China working with us - but we had to give it a try!

That's rich, considering Trump has no clue what a functional version of "working with us" and "giving it a try" would look like (hint: you'd have to actually make a plan, probably involving boring long meetings with the Chinese, and your timeline would need to be a little longer than one financial quarter). His base will faithfully repeat it, though.
posted by Rykey at 6:55 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Metafilter: don't even get me started on the damn Whiskey Rebellion, bro.
posted by spitbull at 6:58 AM on July 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


Just adding an infuriating addendum to my infuriating post from last night about Congressman Clay Higgins (R-LA)'s Auschwitz video, in which he films himself standing in the gas chambers in order to promote his own all-American fascism.

Remember the congressman who demanded the murder of "radicalized Islamic suspects" just last month? It was him.

Not a single radicalized Islamic suspect should be granted any measure of quarter. Their intended entry to the American homeland should be summarily denied. Every conceivable measure should be engaged to hunt them down. Hunt them, identify them, and kill them. Kill them all. For the sake of all that is good and righteous. Kill them all.

[...]

“They’re religious zealots,” Higgins said, referring to terrorists. “They’re twisted, mad religious fanatics. They’re not going to stop because we’re holding up signs or being nice to them. We have to identify them and kill them.” He added: “That’s what happens in war.”

[...]

In his last role, Higgins’s unscripted speech propelled him to fame before it forced him out of his job. He resigned after he appeared in a viral video calling a group of predominantly black gang members “thugs,” “heathens” and “animals.” [...] Months later, he was elected to Congress.

This Nazi motherfucker should never have been allowed onto the grounds of Auschwitz in the first place. Sickening.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:07 AM on July 5, 2017 [51 favorites]


Does Trump not read these stories about how everyone is treating him like a spoiled toddler who needs to be pacified so he won't have a meltdown? Or do his handlers keep them away from him, or spin them as proof that everyone is impressed and intimidated by his awesome awesomeness?

Answer: No, he does not.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:07 AM on July 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


Heather Timmons, Quartz: The office of the US president has too much power, and Congress is finally moving to limit it
Constitutional experts who railed against Obama’s liberal use of executive orders during his presidency, and Bush’s before that, say the concern over Trump’s powers illustrates that the presidency has been too strong for some time now. “To all my newly-fervent defenders of the Constitution from the left: Welcome back,” Michael Munger, a professor of political science at Duke University wrote at Quartz. “Perhaps it’s time to accept that limiting executive power is a cause we should all fight for—no matter what side we’re on.”
The colloidal-silver lining of this turd-filled punchbowl is that we might finally get some long-needed restraints on Executive power.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:10 AM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


There is an interesting subplot emerging where HanAssholeSolo's (it never gets old or easier) original wrestling GIF was edited in the version Trump tweeted, and yet it can be found nowhere else online (before he tweeted) but r/the_donald. So either Trump scours Reddit and edits his own gifs for retweeting or someone on his team prepped that for him, or a supporter privately sent him the edited version.

So weird.
posted by spitbull at 7:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [10 favorites]



I don't know enough about China's relations with NK to analyse whether an increase in trade is good or bad. I do know is that it isn't necessarily bad in general because trade and stronger economic ties can be legit (though longer term) strategies for dealing with problem states because it open up avenues of power and leverage. It wouldn't surprise me if China was pursuing these sort of soft power strategies with NK. On many levels it's in their interest to do so. No idea how successful soft power strategies would be in this case.

Trump has little understanding and/or no use for soft power politics. China could lay out their NK strategy in crayon and he wouldn't get it.
posted by Jalliah at 7:14 AM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


What's the Vegas odds of someone on his media team actually being a mod on the_donald?
posted by PenDevil at 7:15 AM on July 5, 2017 [32 favorites]



There is an interesting subplot emerging where HanAssholeSolo's (it never gets old or easier) original wrestling GIF was edited in the version Trump tweeted, and yet it can be found nowhere else online (before he tweeted) but r/the_donald. So either Trump scours Reddit and edits his own gifs for retweeting or someone on his team prepped that for him, or a supporter privately sent him the edited version.

So weird.


You think Trump would be capable of not reading something called The Donald?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:16 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


There is an interesting subplot emerging where HanAssholeSolo's (it never gets old or easier) original wrestling GIF was edited in the version Trump tweeted, and yet it can be found nowhere else online (before he tweeted) but r/the_donald. So either Trump scours Reddit and edits his own gifs for retweeting or someone on his team prepped that for him, or a supporter privately sent him the edited version.

It was someone on his team. There's no way Trump knows how to edit a gif this way. He may have seen it first and someone agreed to make it better but it wasn't him.
posted by Jalliah at 7:20 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


> “Perhaps it’s time to accept that limiting executive power is a cause we should all fight for—no matter what side we’re on.”

Sure. While we're at it, though, could we end gerrymandering, get rid of first past the post, eliminate the Electoral College, ensure guaranteed voting rights for all citizens, and remove the imposter from the Supreme Court?
posted by kyrademon at 7:22 AM on July 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


The claim from that Quartz article linked above -- "Obama’s liberal use of executive orders during his presidency, and Bush’s before that" -- is just FALSE.
posted by neroli at 7:23 AM on July 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


My bets for how Trump got his tiny hands on the gif are spread evenly across:

Dan Scavino
Donald Trump Jr.
Steven Miller

My dude is not reading Reddit. He couldn't define the term "URL" if you held a gun to his head. He knows how to use the Twitter app (kind of) and that's it.

We're basically watching Don Jr blossom into an internet troll in his own right, before our very eyes, so I would not be at all surprised if he reads T_D on the regular. And I'm sure Scavino does.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:30 AM on July 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


I honestly think Scavino is the one writing most of Trumps tweets anyway.
posted by PenDevil at 7:33 AM on July 5, 2017


"Hello friends from the left... now that we've unleashed the sum of all your fears on the country, don't you understand how we felt when we peddled utter and complete bullshit we made up about Obama? I look forward to working with you. Your pal, Hypokrites Von Gaslight."
posted by Behemoth at 7:33 AM on July 5, 2017 [62 favorites]


My dude is not reading Reddit.

I agree that he's not reading anything, but I'll bet he really likes animated GIFs.
posted by diogenes at 7:38 AM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Osita Nwanevu: Primary Colors: On Democratic Presidential Politics, Neoliberalism, and the White Working Class (via)

This is a long post on the history of the Democratic party's attempts over the years to reach out to non college-educated / working class whites. Very much worth reading in its entirety.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:49 AM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


The epistemic closure / "two Americas" angle on the CNN coverage of the wrestling gif story is unsettling. It's already being covered in some corners as CNN threatening to doxx an innocent teenager [sic]:

CNN slammed for threat to reveal identity of Trump 'wrestling' CNN creator (The Hill)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:49 AM on July 5, 2017



The CNN solo story is fascinating to watch morph into what looks like is going to be the (false) narrative that alt-right peeps are going to hold to no matter what. 'CNN blackmailed a 15 year old'.
He's not 15, he's a grown man with a kid and he apparently apologized before CNN actually said anything to him. It looks like they tried to contact him, didn't get hold of him, guy freaked and apologized and then he contacted CNN.

I don't doubt that the guy felt the heat of being found out and acted accordingly but there was no 'we're going to out you unless you comply' event.
posted by Jalliah at 7:52 AM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


They literally published a story that read CNN reserves the right to publish the user's identity should his behavior not suit their requests. Like verbatim.

Like the situation or not, but yes there was a very blatant "we're going to out you unless you comply".
posted by FakeFreyja at 7:54 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Where comply = "not issue any more anti-semetic threats to our staff", please keep in mind.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:56 AM on July 5, 2017 [46 favorites]


Actually I took their statement as "Normally we would just tell you who this guy is but because he asked so nicely and promised not to do it again we said ok."

Lots of commentary on Twitter from folks of color about how they're treating a white guy with kid gloves, but probably wouldn't do the same to a nonwhite person.
posted by emjaybee at 7:57 AM on July 5, 2017 [27 favorites]


Primary Colors: On Democratic Presidential Politics, Neoliberalism, and the White Working Class


It's quite L, I do recommend that you R, but in case tl;Dr
The white working class is far from being entirely to blame for the immersion of the party and its leaders in rentier politics. This intellectual evolution of the party’s elites took place largely out of the public eye and voters can’t be held responsible for the concentration of economic power and influence over the party that followed. But it remains an inescapable fact that the white working class, largely over race and social issues, has, for decades, helped sink progressive candidates that may have stalled or prevented the party’s full capture by neoliberal centrism and the moneyed interests their move to the center has benefited. In doing so, they’ve not only voted against their interests, as the cliche goes, but also voted against the interests of those worse off than themselves—poorer whites hurt even more acutely by the cuts to programs and middling policy solutions pushed forward by the Republican and conservative Democratic politicians the white working class has taken a shine to, as well as minorities doubly impacted by regressive economic policy and racism.

This isn’t a call for pessimism. It’s not 1988 anymore, and it’s plausible that Jesse Jackson’s model of engaging disenfranchised whites without relinquishing identity politics would work substantially better now. But the success of Donald Trump’s xenophobia-driven campaign suggests this isn’t a given. We ought to give Jackson’s approach another real try anyway—again, shifting the party’s margins with working class whites even slightly would have a significant electoral impact. The case for a new liberal agenda, though, does not ultimately rest upon whether it improves the party’s prospects with them.
/////
I've become less enamored of the "voting against their interests" phrasing of late. I firmly believe that people are not always good judges of their own internal thought processes and motivations, and also that systems of power are not mere psycho-social feelgood security blankets. Also, people are nevertheless better judges of their own interests than states, who see unclearly. herrenvolk democracy / white supremacy ( in the US) is a totalizing economic and social system as well that promise full civic and economic participation. To ensure that the structures of power look and think like you, that you can vote and petition and will be regarded, and will be judged by a jury of your peers, that you're protected from the full rapaciousness of the enclose-and-extract systems that so recently are being used against the great reservoirs of wealth that are the middle classes and municipalities.

In fact we can almost think of the Catastrophe as a recognition of this, an attempt to reassert the old system of wealth extraction by turning against the old targets (failed, because simply not lucrative enough anymore), instead of destroying or dismantling it.

"Not me! Julia! Not me!"
posted by the man of twists and turns at 7:59 AM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


They literally published a story that read CNN reserves the right to publish the user's identity should his behavior not suit their requests. Like verbatim.

Giving CNN the benefit of the doubt for the moment, I can understand why they would say they've agreed not to publish his name on his request, but reserve the right to do so in the future. I mean, the guy could write a post on Reddit tomorrow saying his apology was a farce or something. In that event, I'd expect CNN to continue their reporting.

Where they messed up was, as you say, tying their agreement to his "behavior".
posted by schoolgirl report at 8:00 AM on July 5, 2017


Like the situation or not, but yes there was a very blatant "we're going to out you unless you comply".

Not in the timeline that their narrative is. Yes they said that. I never said they didn't. The alt-right narrative is that the guy apologized and ran scared because they threatened him before he did what he did.

They didn't. He took that action before he even talked to them.


And yeah as soren_lorensen said CNN has every right to deal with anti-semetic threats towards their staff that this guy posted by saying don't do it anymore or we'll do what we gotta do. The wrestling gif thing could be considered amusing satire. The outing of all of their Jewish staff? That is no joke. It's dangerous. He should count himself lucky that they decided not to publish his name. They were well within their right too.
posted by Jalliah at 8:04 AM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]



Where they messed up was, as you say, tying their agreement to his "behavior".

They should have just said, "We looked into it, turns out this guy is just a private citizen exercising his right to free speech, so his identity is not newsworthy at this time. If it turns out he was a Russian agent or something, we'll get back to you."
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 8:05 AM on July 5, 2017


On non-preview, I missed the part about threatening the Jewish staff.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 8:07 AM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


The guy posted some vile shit, but this whole situation makes me nervous. People I like following who previously decried aggressors doxxing their targets - rightfully calling it threatening and harassing - are now gleefully calling for blood now that it's someone they don't like.
posted by FakeFreyja at 8:08 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


"it's okay when its done to people we disagree with" –people, everywhere, since time immemorial
posted by entropicamericana at 8:10 AM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


When you make a photographic hitlist of the Jews at CNN, you are no longer just some dude who shouldn't get doxxed
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:11 AM on July 5, 2017 [102 favorites]


Depends on whether you think someone who, say, complains anonymously about a culture of sexual harassment at work, should be in the same category of protection as an anonymous peddler of violence-tinged hate speech.
posted by Behemoth at 8:13 AM on July 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


We are talking about someone whose grotesquely anti-Semitic gifs came to light after his work was reposted by the president of the United States for millions to see and discuss. This isn't gamergate in reverse.
posted by spitbull at 8:14 AM on July 5, 2017 [73 favorites]


On the expansion of executive powers, and now that the shoe is on the other foot it's starting to pinch: This Mike Munger article in Quartz has an interesting quote: But when Obama was president, they made excuses for his decrees on immigration and health care. “Congress is gridlocked!” they’d point out, noting that Republicans had blocked, and vowed to continue to block, Democratic legislation. “We have to get things done, and this is the only way.”

I remember hearing a lot of this from Democrats back in the day, as well as "Why doesn't Obama do mooooooorrrre? He needs to get tough with Congress like Lyndon Johnson/ be decisive like Franklin Roosevelt blah blah fishcakes." Never mind that both Roosevelt and Johnson had Congressional majorities on their side, and maybe Obama was being overly faithful in the good nature of the Republicans, but there never seemed any reflection on what if the situations were reversed and there was a Republican president with lots of power...well that came true in a much worse way than anyone expected.

If a powerful President is the only way to cut through Congressional gridlock and get things done... maybe the thing to do is look at the gridlock, and that is a much harder problem to solve, I think.

Barbara Lee, btw, is another national treasure. She used to be my Congressperson when I lived in Oakland, when 9/11 happened, and she was the only Congressperson to speak out against the Iraq War. I remember all of us at my workplace (a very liberal one staffed by women) wore "Barbara Lee Speaks For Me" badges. Even though I'm no longer in her district, Barbara Lee still speaks for me!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:15 AM on July 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


The Near-Exposure of HanAssholeSolo's Identity is Very Upsetting to James O'Keefe Fans
I think it's your right as an American to be an anonymous sleazebag bigot online. Overt threats, even threats that you don't intend to carry out, are another matter. The HanAssholeSolo Reddit posts I examined over the weekend weren't threats. The wrestling video was mild, and wasn't much of a weapon until the White House weaponized it.

On the other hand, it's hard to feel sorry for a guy who believes that the best part of his day is when he's posting some Photoshop that portrays blacks, Muslims, and Jews as subhuman -- especially when he later insists that he was just having a bit of innocent fun. [...]

No, dude, it's the not "the media" that's portraying you as a bigot. You're portraying yourself as a bigot. If you're not a bigot, don't say bigoted shit.

And this is "a controversy that should never have happened" to Reddit and /The_Donald? No, this is a controversy that absolutely should have happened. We can argue the morality of threatening to expose HanAssholeSolo's real identity -- I'm on the fence -- but the racist nature of influential Trump fan communities should be exposed. Too much of the public thinks Trump fandom is about nothing more than tragic Springsteenian despair after the factory closed. [...]

News organizations should be trying to dox online terrorists of this kind. It would be news. It would be a public service. And I wouldn't shed a tear for any such thug who was exposed.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:16 AM on July 5, 2017 [55 favorites]





For anyone else playing catch-up, the CNN threatening thing is highlighted in the ADL blog post, and is from just last month:

June 2017: HanAssholeSolo posted an image of CNN journalists and employees with a Star of David next to them writing, “Something strange about CNN...can't quite put my finger on it...” [above]

I'm okay with an employer contacting someone who did that, and suggesting that they not do that anymore or risk further legal action.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 8:18 AM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Metafilter: blah blah fishcakes.
posted by Melismata at 8:23 AM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


People I like following who previously decried aggressors doxxing their targets - rightfully calling it threatening and harassing - are now gleefully calling for blood now that it's someone they don't like.

The aggressors here were HanAssholeSolo and Trump, who were threatening violent suppression of a free press, and the targeting of CNN employees who were supposedly Jewish. Both have histories of promising violent retribution against both the press and marginalized groups. That's what we should be rightfully calling threats and harassment, not an organization contacting them to discuss said threats and harassment. Meanwhile, Jared Yates Sexton, who has been covering the violent rhetoric targeting Jews and other groups from Trump and his supporters, has been getting constant death threats. No complaints about what's happening to him?
posted by zombieflanders at 8:23 AM on July 5, 2017 [44 favorites]


I've become less enamored of the "voting against their interests" phrasing of late.

Ditto. Aside from being patronizing, it's minimizing their decisions. Oh those poor deluded fools, if only they had known. Fuck that, they made a choice. That choice was that it was more important to be hard-assed on immigrants than to preserve programs that benefit them. It was more important to pick someone who'd make sure nobody had to bake a cake for gay folks than to reject someone who talks horribly about women. Fine. Make your choice, jerks, it's your vote and you can give it to whatever hateful shitgoblin you like. But you own it.

"Voted again the continuation of financial programs that would benefit them" takes up more characters but they're digital, we can spare the electrons. "Their interests" gives them a pass on the fact that they voted their interests... their interests just happened to be sticking it to PoC more than helping themselves and their non-PoC neighbors.
posted by phearlez at 8:31 AM on July 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


I've become less enamored of the "voting against their interests" phrasing of late. I firmly believe that people are not always good judges of their own internal thought processes ... that you're protected from the full rapaciousness of the enclose-and-extract systems that so recently are being used against the great reservoirs of wealth that are the middle classes and municipalities.

I want to partially disagree with you. It's my impression that quite a lot of people (e.g. "Kansans") voluntarily voted for rapacious extraction of middle class wealth because they cared more about casting an anti-gay, anti-diversity vote. (With a sprinkle of anti-abortion motivation.) Screwing "different" people out of their rights became more important than buttressing their own.
posted by puddledork at 8:33 AM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


People I like following who previously decried aggressors doxxing their targets - rightfully calling it threatening and harassing - are now gleefully calling for blood now that it's someone they don't like.

There's a difference between aggressors revealing the identities of the targets of harassment and a news organization practicing journalism by revealing the identity of a newsworthy subject. Saying they're the same thing is disingenuous.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 8:42 AM on July 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


I'm ok with anonymous hate speech becoming problematic for the originators.
posted by diogenes at 8:47 AM on July 5, 2017 [55 favorites]


The ruling party is bussing in its supporters from all over Poland, encouraging them to take part in a 'great patriotic picnic' on the occasion of Trump’s visit.

If Adolf Hitler flew in today
They'd send a limousine anyway

posted by kirkaracha at 8:47 AM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


About that limo video... Come on people, he's the President of the United States. He's got a lot of really important things on his mind. Important... things... hmmm... what's that over there?
posted by njohnson23 at 8:48 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


They literally published a story that read CNN reserves the right to publish the user's identity should his behavior not suit their requests.

this is moronic to say this in public; it makes them sound like a bunch of petty blackmailers instead of a news organization and gives the alt.right something to grieve about

they should have either doxxed the guy straight out or kept their mouths shut - an argument could be made for either one, but threatening someone like this in public is just sleazy
posted by pyramid termite at 8:53 AM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


About that limo video... Come on people, he's the President of the United States. He's got a lot of really important things on his mind. Important... things... hmmm... what's that over there?

He meant to do that.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:56 AM on July 5, 2017


its not doxxing. this is not doxxing. the motherfucker is newsworthy. this is investigative god damned journalism. they should have published his name.
posted by prize bull octorok at 8:57 AM on July 5, 2017 [78 favorites]


also i can't help but reflect on what kind of degenerate body politic we have in which a person who calls himself hanassholesolo becomes a newsworthy figure

can it get any more absurd?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:03 AM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Do you believe "sunlight is the best disinfectant"?
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
That was said in broad fucking daylight and the asshole that spewed the shit from his mouth still got elected president.

Sunlight is not a disinfectant to abhorrent views. The guy didn't change. He didn't CTJ. He's just going to be more careful with his next username. 7 proxies and all that shit.
posted by Talez at 9:04 AM on July 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


The only way out* is through.

* assuming
posted by Artw at 9:05 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Last time we had wheels up, there were drops from WaPo and NYTimes within minutes. I was kind of looking forward to that again...
posted by Sophie1 at 9:06 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm not sure I'm morally comfortable with an environment where doxxing is wrong when done against people we think are good, but right when done against people we think are bad.
posted by Phyltre at 9:07 AM on July 5, 2017


an environment where doxxing is wrong when done against people we think are good, but right when done against people we think are bad.

This is an utterly false equivalence. Don't buy into it.
posted by Dashy at 9:10 AM on July 5, 2017 [43 favorites]


Yeah the only thing CNN does absolutely wrong here is this poorly-phrased bet hedging. I get why they wanted to keep their options open, but at the point where you need to issue that I think you should consider that a sign you should have just published his identity or not made the statement at all. This is the worst of both worlds and looks cruddy to everyone.

But the idea that someone isn't newsworthy in this circumstance? The profile of the prolific amateur who gets noticed and amplified by folks at the peak of power is a cliché for a reason. That's not doxing. Hell, I'm not sure I'm even willing to call it doxing when nothing more is done than identifying someone. Certainly as it was originally defined, doxing meant identifying someone as well as every possible bit of contact & location information of them that you turn up.
posted by phearlez at 9:11 AM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'm not sure I'm morally comfortable with an environment where doxxing is wrong when done against people we think are good, but right when done against people we think are bad.

Do you consider it "doxxing" when a news organization publishes the names of people who admit to committing crimes?
posted by Etrigan at 9:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [39 favorites]


I'm not morally comfortable with a world where we can't distinguish between racist threats against press freedom and a vulnerable person who has done nothing wrong but who needs privacy in order to simply exist safely.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [65 favorites]


doxxing is an internet etiquette concept. when some fool supplies the president of the united fucking states with garbage memes and leaves a breadcrumb trail from his reddit handle to his IRL identity in plain fucking sight it is ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE for a news organization to use that information to say "HEY HERE IS THIS GUY WHO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES GOES TO FOR HIS GARBAGE MEME NEEDS" and it is NOT AT ALL like you or me digging through, say a fellow mefite's posting history to dredge up a link to their IRL identity to embarrass them for the sake of winning an internet argument.

this (clap emoji) is (clap emoji) not (several clap emojis) doxxing (etc)
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [56 favorites]


> I'm not sure I'm morally comfortable with an environment where doxxing is wrong when done against people we think are good, but right when done against people we think are bad.

Well I'm definitely not comfortable with an environment where actions are analyzed in a way that divorces them from their context.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


Fatalities in the Quasi War were only quasi-dead.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:14 AM on July 5, 2017


rc3spencer: "Well . . . at least until 1798. John Adams and the Federalists' Alien and Sedition Acts took down freedom of speech pronto, and also was the beginning of a rough handling of the political problem of immigrants and citizenship."

The Sedition Act of 1798 expired March 3, 1801.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:15 AM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


this (clap emoji) is (clap emoji) not (several clap emojis) doxxing (etc)

this 👏🏻 is 👏🏼 not 👏🏽👏🏾👏🏿 doxxing

FTFY.

I even gave you a Benetton rainbow!
posted by Talez at 9:16 AM on July 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


Like, this divorcing everything from its context and bending into pretzel shapes about "fairness" is how we get to shit like what happened at VidCon with Anita Sarkeesian and her shitlord tormentors. These people have been harassing her for years. There's so much context behind her reaction to them it would take several books to fully explicate. They have so far managed to go right up to the line of illegality but never stepped over it, but their every action and word screams "WE ENJOY TORMENTING WOMEN WHO HAVE DONE NOTHING TO US PERSONALLY!" There is zero equivalence between them harassing her and her calling them garbage humans. But because they are both in the class "humans who have not been convicted of an actual crime" their actions get judged by the same barometer by some people. And: fuck that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:19 AM on July 5, 2017 [105 favorites]


Hey, is this doxxing argument one of those "norms" things that we should never break because it will give our ideological opponents an excuse to do the same? Because I have a fucking news flash...
posted by Behemoth at 9:19 AM on July 5, 2017 [23 favorites]


Let's face it these fuckers shift wgatever their definition of "doxxing" is in a heartbeat in order perpetrate harassment and protect harassers.
posted by Artw at 9:21 AM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Maine government shutdown is over:
On July 4, 2017, leaders of the Maine State Legislature and Gov. LePage negotiated a budget bill that repealed Question 2. The Maine House of Representatives voted 147 to 2 on the bill. The Maine Senate passed the bill 35 to 0. The final budget bill did not include the lodging tax increase proposed on June 30. In exchange for agreeing to the repeal of Question 2 without a lodging tax increase, Republicans and Gov. LePage agreed to allocate an additional $1.15 million for the state preschool program and place a two-year moratorium on reductions for MaineCare behavioral health services. The budget earmarked $162 million for public education—about 50 percent of what Question 2 was estimated to bring in.
More from the Portland Press-Herald.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:21 AM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah the only thing CNN does absolutely wrong here is this poorly-phrased bet hedging.

The WaPo summary that just arrived in my inbox ends with "but #CNNBlackmail is the story taking hold." CNN definitely could have handled this in a way that didn't end up with blackmail taking over the story.
posted by diogenes at 9:23 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Sedition Act of 1798 expired March 3, 1801.
Yes, yes it was allowed to expire once the Jeffersonians came to power.
But . . it's part of a tactic that's been revived when needed throughout our history.
For example Wilson's Espionage and Sedition Acts, which led to the imprisonment of almost a thousand people in opposition to World War I, Truman's Executive order demanding loyalty oaths from government employees, COINTELPRO in the 70s, and of course the Alien Enemies Act from 1798 still lives on in United States Code Title 50. Free speech is often a political tool in US history.
posted by rc3spencer at 9:24 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


It was someone on his team. There's no way Trump knows how to edit a gif this way. He may have seen it first and someone agreed to make it better but it wasn't him.

Well we know Barron's very good at the cyber... In fact, he's so good at these computers, it's unbelievable.
posted by carmicha at 9:26 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


also i can't help but reflect on what kind of degenerate body politic we have in which a person who calls himself hanassholesolo becomes a newsworthy figure

I'm mostly annoyed with the bowdlerization of his name into HanA**holeSolo or HanA------Solo or whatever. For two reasons: 1) if, for example, I plug "HanAssholeSolo" into the search page at washingtonpost.com I get no results. "Grab them by the pussy" gets no results, yet there are 247 results for "pussy riot". For a text-based medium, it seems like that matters. And, 2) it's the name he gave himself. If it's offensive, it's not the media's fault, it's on that guy.
posted by peeedro at 9:31 AM on July 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


Good to remember that Zucker's CNN is no one's real friend. The pursuit of good journalism is certainly not the goal coming down from the top.
NYTMag on Zucker's CNN
posted by rc3spencer at 9:35 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Where comply = "not issue any more anti-semetic threats to our staff", please keep in mind.

CNN would be within their rights to have published the troll's identity right away. They said they took him at his word that his apology was sincere, and therefore were agreeing to withhold his identity, conditional on his apology actually being sincere.

Just as -- as James Taranto knows perfectly well -- a news source is under no obligation to honor an anonymity pledge if the source lies to them (and indeed, I wish they'd out more liars), they are under no obligation to be held to their withholding his identity if his apology was simply a ruse to take the heat off.

If this troll's apology was made in bad faith, there's no reason CNN should feel bound to their promise. But since conservative activism is based on bad faith -- much like Taranto's complaint -- I can see how threatened they feel.
posted by Gelatin at 9:43 AM on July 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


Not doing so was some lame "basket of deplorables" pulling a punch and thereby handing a weapon to their enemy shit.
posted by Artw at 9:45 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


doxxing is an internet etiquette concept. when some fool supplies the president of the united fucking states with garbage memes and leaves a breadcrumb trail from his reddit handle to his IRL identity in plain fucking sight it is ENTIRELY APPROPRIATE for a news organization to use that information to say "HEY HERE IS THIS GUY WHO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES GOES TO FOR HIS GARBAGE MEME NEEDS" and it is NOT AT ALL like you or me digging through, say a fellow mefite's posting history to dredge up a link to their IRL identity to embarrass them for the sake of winning an internet argument.

I genuinely don't see how it's any different. I mean, Michael Hersch is (a journalist) right here on the doxing Wikipedia page for publishing a white nationalist's home address, so it's clearly not the news organization part that's different. Of course we don't have any reason to believe that CNN would have literally released whoever-that-person-is's specific home address as part of their release of information about him, but a name paired with a hometown is really all any angry person needs to close the dots with public record information, and to be clear, in this case that information not currently known and the person clearly fears for their safety upon being doxxed.

Bad things aren't okay just because they happen to bad people.
posted by Phyltre at 9:49 AM on July 5, 2017


CNN definitely could have handled this in a way that didn't end up with blackmail taking over the story.

Nah. The garbage media for garbage people were always going to have some sort of "But who will think of the racist fuckwits?" reaction and the rest of the notionally not-garbage media were always going to follow that as a "Here is one side and here is the other side and there is no truth in the universe" thing like they always do.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:50 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


[HanAssholeSolo] is the name he gave himself. If it's offensive, it's not the media's fault, it's on that guy.

The Doctor: "My name, my real name. That is not the point. The name I chose is the Doctor. The name you choose it's like, it's like a promise you make."
posted by Servo5678 at 9:50 AM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS

Boilerplate: Lots of law comes out of state legislatures, plenty of it bad. Statehouse elections usually don't get much attention, doubly so for special elections. Because of the small scope, a small amount of your money or time could help elect these folks! Please pitch in, if you can!

This time: July elections.

Previously noted:
JULY 11 -- Oklahoma House 75 - Karen Gaddis

HD-75 is currently an R seat (the incumbent resigned after a sex scandal); the R won 60-40 versus Gaddis in 2016; there was no opposition in 2014 or 2012. No 2016 presidential numbers for the district yet, but it went 64-36 for Romney. The GOP controls the OK House by a 3-1 margin.

==

JULY 18 -- New Hampshire House Merrimack 18 -- Kris Schultz

HD-18 is currently a D seat (the incumbent resigned for reasons unclear); the D won 56-44 against the same GOP opponent who is running this time; Dem was unopposed in 2014, and won 64-36 in 2012. District went 59-37 for Clinton. The GOP controls the NH house by about 50 seats.
New this time:
JULY 25 -- Massachusetts Senate 4th Middlesex -- Cindy Friedman

SD-4 is currently a D seat (the incumbent passed away); the D candidate was unopposed in the 2016 and 2014 elections, and won 68-32 in 2012. District went 62-33 for Clinton. No GOP candidate filed this time; Friedman's opponent in the general is on the Green-Rainbow ticket. The Dems control the MA Senate by about 25 seats.

==

JULY 25 -- Mississippi House 108 -- Jerry Frazier

Special elections in MS are technically non-partisan, and the ballot does not have party labels. That said, Frazier is clearly the Dem candidate. HD-4 is currently an R seat (the incumbent took a different position with the state); the R candidate won 77-23 in 2015, and was unchallenged in 2011. No presidential results, sorry. The GOP controls the MS House by about 25 seats. Obviously an extremely tough district, but there are two GOP candidates, offering the possibility of splitting that vote.

==

JULY 25 -- New Hampshire Senate 16 -- Kevin Cavanaugh

SD-16 is currently a D seat (the incumbent passed away); the D won 51-49 in 2016, the R won 56-44 in 2014, and 49-48 in 2012. District went for Clinton by less than half a point, and for Romney by about a point. The GOP controls the NH Senate by five seats. Clearly a tight race, and the GOP candidate is the former office holder. Also of interest is that there is a Libertarian candidate; in NH, they often take a couple of percent, and could be the decider here.

Next time: A look ahead to the crucial November Washington specials, which could restore unified control to the Democrats.

You can find useful info at Ballotpedia and flippable if you are so inclined.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:57 AM on July 5, 2017 [46 favorites]


Michael Hersch is (a journalist) right here on the doxing Wikipedia page for publishing a white nationalist's home address.

Hirsh posted the home address of a white nationalist on his facebook page and called on people to take action against him. That's not the same thing as a journalist including the name of a newsworthy subject in a news article.
posted by ultraviolet catastrophe at 9:58 AM on July 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


Good lord, if your argument has twice now depended on the premise of "if this totally different thing had been done, it would have been wrong, thus anything remotely similar is wrong," then you're doing it...well, wrong.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:59 AM on July 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


Just as -- as James Taranto knows perfectly well -- a news source is under no obligation to honor an anonymity pledge if the source lies to them (and indeed, I wish they'd out more liars), they are under no obligation to be held to their withholding his identity if his apology was simply a ruse to take the heat off.

this is true - but the flip side of that coin is that people are under no obligation to talk to news organizations they feel will not honor anonymity pledges or put conditions on them

it would have been much wiser for CNN to tell this guy privately
posted by pyramid termite at 10:02 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


He is not a source.
posted by Artw at 10:06 AM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


of course he's a source - a journalist was talking to him and getting information from him - whether that was going to be published is besides the point
posted by pyramid termite at 10:10 AM on July 5, 2017


of course he's a source - a journalist was talking to him and getting information from him - whether that was going to be published is besides the point

source != subject
posted by Etrigan at 10:12 AM on July 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


that's hair-splitting - a person can be both source and subject - this really isn't an arguable point and i'm done with it
posted by pyramid termite at 10:14 AM on July 5, 2017


CNN isn't the smartest network in the box. Reddit user is as idiotic as you might expect, and the alt-right spins the story of its victimhood. Who cares. There is a large part of the GOP that is trying to take healthcare away from at least 23 million people, among many other things of importance.
posted by localhuman at 10:19 AM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]




a person can be both source and subject

Yes, and a person can be both male and German. That doesn't mean that every man is German, nor that every German is a man, nor that things that apply to "men" necessarily apply to "Germans".

This person, this HanAssholeSolo, was the subject of this story. Being the subject of a story carries with it vastly different protections -- under virtually every journalistic ethical and legal system -- than being the source of a story, even if the person in question is both (which, incidentally, he was not, because your definition is ridiculous). Calling this particular person a "source" and claiming (directly or in-) that it provides them with all of the protections due to a source ignores the fact that they were a subject.
posted by Etrigan at 10:22 AM on July 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


The idea that CNN doesn't have the right to report on the facts of its own attack seems... odd.
posted by chris24 at 10:24 AM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


among many other things of importance

Just because other things are happening doesn't make this reddit troll unimportant. I think he's very important, because he's being dragged through the mud and trolls don't like a taste of their own medicine. There is a real hope that in exposing this creep, other trolls will back off.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 10:25 AM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


I wonder how many Stormfront members are claiming to be HanAssholeSolo on Patreon right now.
posted by benzenedream at 10:26 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


There is a real hope that in exposing this creep, other trolls will back off.

Am I understanding that the argument is that there will be a chilling effect on pro-Trump .gifs on the part of the alt-right as a result of what CNN is doing?
posted by Phyltre at 10:28 AM on July 5, 2017


Also, inasmuch as this clown talked to CNN, it was because he had a particular point of view to sell -- it was all a horrible mistake, I've seen the light, please don't tell the world what a terrible person I am.

Given that circumstance, CNN is within its rights to change its entirely voluntary and unilateral decision not to publicize his identity if he turns out to have been playing them. Lying to the press should not have the same consequences that it does the FBI, but it should have consequences -- one loses credibility with the press, and they say as much, at the very least.

Yes, the way CNN put it is inartful, but the real threat is to the go-to conservative tactic of bad faith rhetoric that is so much on display.
posted by Gelatin at 10:28 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Am I understanding that the argument is that there will be a chilling effect on pro-Trump .gifs on the part of the alt-right as a result of what CNN is doing?

Not my original comment, but a chilling affect on the rightwing extremist trollosphere, thereby improving the lives and safety of innumerable women and others in at risk groups?
posted by chris24 at 10:31 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Or they could treat him like any other artist whose work becomes famous, meaning giving credit where credit is due.

"President Trump Tweeted a video that went viral over the holiday weekend, without giving credit to the video artist, but we have found him. It's Joe Blow, aka redditor HanAssholeSolo, whose other work you can check out in this gallery. Or you can go to his Facebook page to see more!"
posted by Miss Cellania at 10:31 AM on July 5, 2017 [43 favorites]


The @GOP twitter feed is posting videos of Hillary, Bernie, Elizabeth Warren et al talking about problems with Obamacare and asking "Where's your plan?" as if Bernie hasn't introduced single-payer legislation every congress for years and as if Hillary (who is apparently not the president) didn't have pretty detailed proposals on her website. I suppose not too many people actually pay attention to that account, because it seems like it would be easy to reply and say "Here you go", but perhaps not worth their time?
posted by TwoWordReview at 10:33 AM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Does anyone genuinely believe this asshat wouldn't whine/cry/blame liberals/ask for money/become a patron saint of his fellow manbabies no matter what CNN did or didn't do?

I have no time anymore for these people. NO. TIME. Let them cry into their Confederate flags and feel sorry for their miserable, pathetic selves while the rest of us go on with the important work we need to do.
posted by emjaybee at 10:33 AM on July 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


Fuck that, they made a choice. That choice was that it was more important to be hard-assed on immigrants than to preserve programs that benefit them. It was more important to pick someone who'd make sure nobody had to bake a cake for gay folks than to reject someone who talks horribly about women. Fine. Make your choice, jerks, it's your vote and you can give it to whatever hateful shitgoblin you like. But you own it.

I hear you and I react emotionally the same way. But upon reflection, the GOP pols don't announce, hey, we're gonna cut your granny off Medicaid and have her tossed from the home. If fact, they routinely lie about the evil things they plan to do. They never say what they really want to do in terms of cutting government benefits. They often couch it in terms of how they're going to hurt those people you don't like. So, the ill-informed GOP voter is told that the Muslims, the blacks, the browns, and the gays will all get their comeuppance, but the same pols don't announce that they'll scale back benefits, eliminate government protections, or cut taxes on the wealthy, just that they'll stiff the hated groups. The voters' mistake is not in misunderstanding the message, it's that the message is stuffed with lies and the true intentions are hidden.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:34 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


I took a couple day break from Twitter. It was nice. Now I'm not doing that anymore, I guess.

After the California Assembly Speaker pulled SB 562, the single payer plan ["plan" implies a level of planning that was lacking here though], the entire Assembly Democratic Caucus signed onto a letter last week:
In recent days, we have become alarmed and disheartened by bullying tactics, threats of violence, and death threats by a few who disagree with the decision of Speaker Anthony Rendon to postpone the advancement of SB 562. While it is appropriate for persons of varying views to express concern, disapproval or disfavor about the delay, it is never acceptable to engage in those tactics. That is not how we make decisions in the Assembly. In a civil society, this behavior can neither be condoned nor tolerated.
Seth Chandler: Senator Cruz's Healthcare Reform Proposal Creates A Monster "Income Cliff":
Let's take an example. It's hardly unreasonable, I think to imagine that in BCRA world with the Cruz amendment a "Bronze" community rated policy -- one that covered you and priced you regardless of medical condition -- would cost a 40 year old $10,000 per year. Suppose our individual earns $40,000 per year. Under section 102 of the BCRA, that individual would be entitled to a subsidy of $5442, meaning the net premium would be $4,558 (about 11.4% of pre-tax income): a big-time stretch but perhaps affordable. Suppose, however, our 40 year old gets a raise or finds a better-paying job such that their income goes up by 5% to $42,000. Because Republicans cut off the subsidy if income exceeds 350% of the "applicable federal poverty limit" ($11,880), now the subsidy completely disappears and the same policy costs $10,000, something our individual almost certainly can not afford. In essence a 272% tax has been imposed on the individual's raise -- and that's before we consider federal income tax, federal payroll tax, state income tax, and other income-sensitive benefits the individual may be receiving. The result is job lock, an incentive for slovenly work, and a loss of productivity.
The ACA has some income cliff problems already, but the Cruz plan creates a disaster because it creates two insurance markets, one for sick people and one for healthy people, and sick people are only given subsidies to make their plans "affordable" up to 350% FPL.

Vox's Dylan Scott talks about the Byrd Rule. In which Ted Cruz is back, because his stupid proposal very well may not meet the rules of reconciliation. If this advances and poses a problem, it sets up a battle between Cruz and McConnell over whether to override the Byrd Rule and do it anyway.

In Axios, Caitlin Owens writes on Actuaries identify "critical issues" in Senate health bill, in which the American Academy of Actuaries point out some problems with the bill.

Speaking of health care, here's a helpful polling cheat sheet showing the unpopularity of the bill. And here's a post from the Take Care Blog on how the Trump Administration is ensuring nursing homes can make patients sign arbitration agreements so they can't ever sue.

Moving on to world affairs, you all remember how Trump kept talking about how we're going to "take the oil?" Turns out someone had the same idea, but with the added twist of looping mercenaries in on the deal: Russia Deploys a Potent Weapon in Syria: The Profit Motive:
The Kremlin is bringing a new weapon to the fight against the Islamic State militant group in Syria, using market-based incentives tied to oil and mining rights to reward private security contractors who secure territory from the extremists, Russian news outlets have reported.

So far, two Russian companies are known to have received contracts under the new policy, according to the reports: Evro Polis, which is set to receive profits from oil and gas wells it seizes from the Islamic State using contract soldiers, and Stroytransgaz, which signed a phosphate-mining deal for a site that was under militant control at the time.
And from The Daily Beast: U.S. Commandos Running Out of ISIS Targets. If you're wondering whatever happened to Trump's secret plan to fight ISIS, it turns out that the Obama strategy has worked too effectively, and they can't figure out how to sell a different one:
That’s presented a dilemma for those working on the Trump anti-ISIS strategy and slowed its public unveiling, U.S. officials tell The Daily Beast. The White House has asked defense officials to come up with new ideas to help brand the Trump campaign as different from its predecessor, according to two U.S. officials and one senior administration official. They spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the sensitive debates.

The senior administration official described Trump’s plan as “relying even more” on special operations working together with local partner forces. “But that’s nuanced, like most of the suggested changes” and doesn’t easily translate to a talking point, he said. That could help explain why Trump has twice missed his own deadline for unveiling the new anti-ISIS strategy.
And lastly, this item in today's Politico Playbook:
FYI -- JARED and IVANKA went to a 10:15 a.m. Flywheel class in Dupont Circle Tuesday, a tipster told us. Our tipster asked him to save the Paris climate accord, and he laughed.
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on July 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


I guess the GOP is trying to organize their base against the Democrats this week? The National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC) will run Facebook ads against Casey, trying to tie him to Warren. I assume they'll be trying to do the same with other senators up for re-election in 2018. It's a weird ad to see if you're a Democrat who likes Elizabeth Warren a lot and thinks single payer is a great idea.
posted by gladly at 10:40 AM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


The GOP knows damn well what Clinton's plan was. They scuttled it in the 90s. I'm not saying it was great, but it's especially fucked up that they're asking her where it was.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:45 AM on July 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


This is why the calls for Pelosi to step aside are stupid. Republicans will keep running ads tying Democrats to the next "Scary Because She's So Liberal And Also A Woman" in line. Warren, Gilibrand, Harris. Removing their current favorite Scary Liberal Lady will do nothing to stop the attacks, because it has nothing to do with the individual.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:46 AM on July 5, 2017 [67 favorites]


Republicans are too stupid to know who is hurting them might or might not be accurate, but it's not much of a defense either way.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:48 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Incidental FB friend comment of the day:

This past week, we were traveling in the Midwest and a couple sitting near us at a restaurant started telling us that global warming didn't exist, but rather it's a dwarf star that's crossing the Earth's trajectory and that NASA is covering all of this up.

He went on and on and told us to look it up on the Internet. There's no way to respond, and really not worth it.


That was a new one to me. Dwarf star?
posted by emjaybee at 10:49 AM on July 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


Tampa Bay Times: Rubio can't find office space because no landlords want to deal with the constant protests.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:54 AM on July 5, 2017 [46 favorites]


Somebody has paid actual money to file a trademark application for "THE PISS TAPE IS REAL"
posted by zachlipton at 10:59 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


And that's supposed to make it better somehow?

I don't believe I said that. I'm just saying it's not the same as knowingly voting against your best interests. If a con man tells me he's selling me a diamond and it's a cubic zirconium and I believe him, so I buy it, that's very different from him telling me it's a cubic zirconium but he's asking a diamond price, and then I buy it. It doesn't make it better, but it's a different dynamic.

Like, you're literally calling the voters here rubes.

Well, maybe I'd call them naïfs. There are plenty of them across the entire political spectrum.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:59 AM on July 5, 2017


Any star (dwarf or not) that's causing a temp rise on earth will be visible quite easily with binoculars or a small telescope (if not to the naked eye). How is NASA supposed to be silencing every backyard astronomer in the world?
posted by phliar at 11:00 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Every telescope sold since 1982 has had specific polarizing filters embedded in the lenses which are controlled from a geostationary satellite above Eugene, Oregon which enables the US government to select which heavenly bodies appear in the view, of course.

I mean it just stands to reason.
posted by winna at 11:04 AM on July 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


That was a new one to me. Dwarf star?

Nemesis

Before Trump got elected, the last time I heard anyone talk about the Nemesis theory was probably 10 years ago, but I've had 3 or 4 people bring it up to me in conversation in the past couple of months.
posted by sporkwort at 11:07 AM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yes of course, just like the pattern of dots on currency that photocopiers can recognize!
posted by phliar at 11:09 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Our tipster asked him to save the Paris climate accord, and he laughed.

"Then let them use air conditioning."
posted by Coventry at 11:13 AM on July 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Before Trump got elected, the last time I heard anyone talk about the Nemesis theory was probably 10 years ago, but I've had 3 or 4 people bring it up to me in conversation in the past couple of months.

Usually it just wipes out the dinosaurs, I'd notvheard of climate change being blamed on it before.
posted by Artw at 11:19 AM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


And for a mere $225 "The PiS Tape is Real™" could be yours filed.
posted by achrise at 11:23 AM on July 5, 2017


The periodicity aspect of the Nemesis star story reminds me of Bannon's beloved fourth turning. Science!
posted by Lyme Drop at 11:26 AM on July 5, 2017


Rubio can't find office space because no landlords want to deal with the constant protests.

Gah, I hate that my kneejerk reaction to this was "really? none of them are willing to deal with that in order to gain a close relationship with him?"
posted by R a c h e l at 11:26 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


How many auto salesmen, home repair contractors, dog groomers, middle managers for major corporations, pillars of their church, etc get out on Reddit or Twitter every night to spin tales of Pepe and Jewish bankers?

FWIW, it's finally what led to the recent undoing of GOP politician and local turd John Huppenthal here in Arizona.

After a long and odious career in the State Lege and then as the state's Superintendent of Public Instruction (who spent his career trying to kill public education, natch), it was his being outed as a long-time racist / anonymous internet commenter that finally made him go away.

He cried and apologized, too. Of course, he didn't have the character to actually resign in disgrace when he was found out, but the voters finally had enough and kicked his ass to the curb in the next election.

I'm sure he's out there somewhere, still polishing his Wikipedia article and misrepresenting educational research. But at least he's no longer trusted with public office.
posted by darkstar at 11:28 AM on July 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


He needs an emergency infusion of cheering crowds, stat!

No! An emergency infusion of cheering crowds will kill him. He needs protests to live.
posted by Twain Device


this vexes me
posted by lalochezia at 11:34 AM on July 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


I don't believe I said that. I'm just saying it's not the same as knowingly voting against your best interests.

Your framing requires a presumption that these folks are ignorant of things than can be discerned about dishonest promises, ignorant of implicit promises to the point where they are not just failing to recognize dog whistles but also immune to being affected by them, and that your perception of their best interests as financially related is an absolute truth rather than the possibility that they view their best interests as something else, like possibly racial inequality, and simply consider the financial considerations as secondary.

I think it's more practical and respectful to assume that they are capable of discerning the same facts that I am and they made their decision with some amount of awareness.
posted by phearlez at 11:37 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


He needs an emergency infusion of cheering crowds, stat!

No! An emergency infusion of cheering crowds will kill him. He needs protests to live.

this vexes me


I, too, am in this thread.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:39 AM on July 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Christopher Ingraham, WaPo, writing about analysis from Mark Perry of the (conservative) American Enterprise Institute: The pay gap between male and female White House staffers has more than tripled in the first year of the toddler administration.
posted by Dashy at 11:39 AM on July 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


From Primary Colors: On Democratic Presidential Politics, Neoliberalism, and the White Working Class:
After all, Sanders won in some of the heavily white working class states where Trump eventually won—Michigan, West Virginia, and Wisconsin for instance.
Winning a state in the Democratic primary doesn't always translate to winning in the general election, though. Clinton won the Michigan and West Virginia Democratic primaries in 2008. Obama won the Wisconsin primary, won the electoral votes in Michigan and Wisconsin, and lost in West Virginia.

"In the 2008 Democratic primary, Appalachia was the heart of Clinton country."
Hillary Clinton did better against Barack Obama in Kentucky, West Virginia, and Arkansas—her longtime home state—than anywhere else in the nation. She captured more than two-thirds of the Democratic vote in Kentucky and West Virginia in May of that year, landslides that gave her campaign a late jolt and enough momentum to stay in the race for the duration of the primaries.
Racism toward Obama trumped sexism toward Clinton in 2008 so she did well in Appalachia.
Racism toward Obama compounded with sexism toward Clinton hurt her in 2016.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:41 AM on July 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


The pay gap between male and female White House staffers has more than tripled in the first year of the toddler administration.

Oh, that explains why the wage gap at Sen. Warren's office suddenly became a huuuge issue on the FaceBooks last week.
posted by Etrigan at 11:42 AM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think it's more practical and respectful to assume that they are capable of discerning the same facts that I am and they made their decision with some amount of awareness.

They don't receive the same information you and I do. They gravitate to sources that push what the GOP wants to push and suppress what the GOP wants to suppress. I'm not excusing them or lionizing them. I think they're despicable for their racism, xenophobia, and homophobia, but I don't really imagine the bulk of them walking into the voting booth saying, "Welp, I'm gonna die early because I won't get good medical care for my diabetes, but this'll really stick it those brown people." I'm pretty sure they're saying, "I get cheaper healthcare AND get to stick it to those brown people."
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:49 AM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Clinton won the Michigan and West Virginia Democratic primaries in 2008.

Just for the record, Obama pulled out of Michigan in the 2008 primary because the Democratic Party was sanctioning the state for moving its primary too far forward. He got literally zero votes.
posted by Etrigan at 11:52 AM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Tampa Bay Times: Rubio can't find office space because no landlords want to deal with the constant protests.
But there is no substitute for having an open dialogue in a town hall meeting with a senator, Hanna said. Rubio has declined, saying activists will "heckle and scream at me."
"All I did was vote to take away healthcare coverage that keeps them alive so that we can hand back nearly a trillion dollars to the rich! They might hurt my feelings in retaliation!"
posted by Talez at 12:04 PM on July 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


They don't receive the same information you and I do.

If only the magical elves that package and deliver information to my doorstep and yours every day could be convinced to do the same for them! How hard are you gonna work to find reasons why they can't get the information that dem voters somehow manage to find?

This image of repub voters as simply not-yet-informed - and somehow being forced into consuming media that GOP-leaning - is facile and wrong. It's predicated on deciding for others what their priorities are and declaring them unable to make decisions about their lives. They're not stuck in a cave having to make decisions based on only the shadows of reality. They may be simply picking their tribal party identification and voting on it with no more thought but that's a decision too: being a republican voter is, in that case, their best interest.

I really don't get why it's worth this much mental effort to defend "against their best interests" rather than "against their own financial interests," which communicates the same idea without paternalism and asserting that we know what is in people's minds. Is it really that important to keep believing that they can't possibly know what they want and the repercussions of their actions?
posted by phearlez at 12:07 PM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm pretty sure they're saying, "I get cheaper healthcare AND get to stick it to those brown people."

The most cynical and frightened part of me is waiting for McConnell and Cruz to put their pointy rotten heads together and come up with a plan that eliminates Medicaid in blue states only and keeps it in red states. Man that would be popular with Republicans.
posted by puddledork at 12:17 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


I’m a climate scientist. And I’m not letting trickle-down ignorance win. [WaPo]

Apologies if this has already been posted. It's been flying all over my feeds today.
posted by bonehead at 12:18 PM on July 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


Man that would be popular with Republicans.

Untill they turn into Kansas, and hopefully vote them the fuck out of office.
posted by Melismata at 12:19 PM on July 5, 2017


The idea that human decision-making is only as good as the underlying social and cultural context that informs it is as bedrock a principle of political liberalism as there's ever been, so if you're starting from the premise it doesn't matter if everybody lives in a completely different cultural/social/educational bubble, I don't know how to characterize those views, but they aren't liberal ones almost by definition.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:22 PM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


If we're talking about magic information elves that package and deliver information then I think it's relevant that we mention Sinclair Broadcasting Group which was recently covered on Last Week Tonight

They own a stupidly huge amount of local news channels across the country, and they do in fact package and push their own material onto those channels and demand that they run it, and that material is extremely partisan.

Their reach is estimated at around 2.2 million people, which sounds small compared to 320 million, but a) it's a larger audience than any cable news channel, b) it includes every media market in Ohio, just for example, c) I don't know how that estimate is calculated, and d) they have an interest in depressing their numbers because they're starting to run up against anti-trust laws. I can't find it again but I swear there was a map showing they covered a huge amount of the midwest and southwest. And finally e) local channels enjoy a much higher level of trust than cable news.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:23 PM on July 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


Man that would be popular with Republicans.

Untill they turn into Kansas, and hopefully vote them the fuck out of office.


I have personally talked to Kansas Republicans who believe that the only reason it isn't working there is that other states are being too generous, and if those states can be brought into line, then it'll work everywhere.
posted by Etrigan at 12:26 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't think Kansas has voted them out yet?

They voted for slightly less terrible Republicans in the primaries. It's changing slowly but it is changing.
posted by Talez at 12:27 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


I have personally talked to Kansas Republicans who believe that the only reason it isn't working there is that other states are being too generous, and if those states can be brought into line, then it'll work everywhere.

What
posted by Melismata at 12:28 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


I mean I can understand Kansas voters to an extent. Let's assume that California Ds went full on moonbat statism a'la Kansas wingnuts. Do you really have the stones to pull that lever for an R knowing that while the Ds are fucking up everything, the Rs have for so long stood against everything you hold dear?
posted by Talez at 12:31 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


And yes, CA has jungle primaries so it's not exclusively a D-R race but just work with me for the sake of argument.
posted by Talez at 12:32 PM on July 5, 2017


I have personally talked to Kansas Republicans who believe that the only reason it isn't working there is that other states are being too generous, and if those states can be brought into line, then it'll work everywhere.

The same reasoning was used for decades by the Communist Party to explain why the Soviet Union wasn't yet a worker's paradise; that the people would fully control the means of production just as soon as the party no longer had to protect them from the evil forces of capitalism.
posted by peeedro at 12:34 PM on July 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


I have personally talked to Kansas Republicans who believe that the only reason it isn't working there is that other states are being too generous, and if those states can be brought into line, then it'll work everywhere.

Clap harder, invisible hand!
posted by phearlez at 12:36 PM on July 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


Also Google is being so unhelpful, when it comes to researching Sinclair, that I find it a little suspicious? I had to specifically search "sinclair monopoly" to get anything other than the corporation's own website and wikipedia page, and reputable news sites weren't even on the front page, while this one dude's blog linking to those sites was.

reputable news sites include the NYfuckingTimes (with that map I mentioned), USA Today, Reuters, MediaMatters, Huffpo, and Salon, none of which showed up in the Google results.

Politico reports that the Trump campaign "struck a deal" with Sinclair for "straighter reporting" during the election.

Note that it's common for conglomerates to own local stations, but a) they do not decide what gets broadcasted in any way and b) Sinclair is the largest such conglomerate and set to become bigger.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:47 PM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


I have personally talked to Kansas Republicans who believe that the only reason it isn't working there is that other states are being too generous, and if those states can be brought into line, then it'll work everywhere.

Let me guess, the belief is that money from the 'frugal' states is being wasted by the spendthrifts, i.e. 'OUR taxes pay THEIR Medicare.' Or is it that, in order to accept federal funding, states would have to spend at uniform costs per procedure independent of local market conditions, so paying (wasteful) New York or SAN FRANCISCO rates for (prudent) Topeka procedures.
posted by hangashore at 12:50 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Weird, if I search for Sinclair Broadcasting I do get NYT and Mediamatters links.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:59 PM on July 5, 2017


No, first I googled "sinclair broadcasting group" and "sinclair broadcasting distribution areas" and permutations and variations on that, and every single search landed me at Sinclair's own website, no news stories on the front page. And searching under "news" got , idk even, nothing useful. Certainly not those sites. They didn't show up on Google at all. I'll grant that I may be reading more into it than it warrants, though.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 1:01 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


The idea that human decision-making is only as good as the underlying social and cultural context that informs it is as bedrock a principle of political liberalism as there's ever been, so if you're starting from the premise it doesn't matter if everybody lives in a completely different cultural/social/educational bubble, I don't know how to characterize those views, but they aren't liberal ones almost by definition.

This is very eloquent but I lack any certainty about who or what it's addressed towards. I feel like it is related to the subject of whether or not to credit Trumpish voters with knowing what they consider their own best interests, but I don't know where anyone has said it doesn't matter if people live in different bubbles. If that's what it's aimed at then I'd say that I dispute that anyone has claimed that it doesn't matter and I'd also dispute that people's bubbles are impenetrable from the inside.

Operations like the Sinclair group unquestionably have an impact on folks but I am unwilling to simply drop all responsibility for the actions of those exposed to SBG materials on SBG. Yeah, SBG deserves plenty of blame. But SBG does not exist in a vacuum, nor does it survive in perfect opposition to supply & demand. There are unquestionably republican voters being suckered and lied to; I don't know who would deny that. The question is whether the majority of them are being primarily suckered and whether it's valuable to treat them as incapable of being a part of their own actualization. I think it is not.
posted by phearlez at 1:04 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


tl;dr of a lot of the new comments since I went to bed last night; Won't someone please think of the anti-semitic racists?

I think the whole concept of "doxxing" is nebulous, arbitrary, and counter-productive. There is nothing inherently good or bad about revealing someone's identity. It's all in the context. Revealing the name of an anonymous women's rights blogger in Saudi Arabia? Not good. Revealing the name of an anonymous racist fucktard burning crosses on church lawns? Pretty dang good.

It's not hard.

CNN's mistake was telegraphing their position. Publish or don't. Writing "we'll publish if this guy continues to be a racist asshole" was unnecessary and fed the trolls.
posted by Justinian at 1:05 PM on July 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


CNN is saying that an editor added the line "as a safeguard," but the intent was to make it clear that they had no agreement to protect the guy's identity. CNN found him, talked to him, choose not to publish his name, but they wanted everyone to know that there was no deal involved; it was simply an editorial choice they were making at the time. Telegraphing their position, ideally in a less threatening way, is a good call, because it makes it explicit to readers exactly what the relationship is here, which is important to understand the context of CNN's report.

The editor in question choose a particularly poor way of expressing that, but K-File is now getting death threats and Cernovich called a protest outside his home.
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on July 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


Chrysostom: CNN - Nice summary of each state's current status. 41 states have pushed back completely or in part. Lots of strong quotes from GOP SOSs, which should help favorably shape the narrative.
Mexico: "My office has not yet received the letter from President Trump's election commission requesting the personal information of New Mexico voters," Democratic Secretary of State Maggie Toulouse Oliver said in a statement Friday. "That being said, I will never release the personally identifiable information of New Mexico voters protected by law, including their social security number and birthdate. Further, I will not release any other voter information like names, addresses or voting history unless and until I am convinced the information will not be used for nefarious or unlawful purposes, and only if I am provided a clear plan for how it will be secured."
"It seems to maybe be a fishing expedition or a witch hunt of some kind, and I'm very concerned about that," Toulouse Oliver said Tuesday on CNN's New Day.
Did the "Mexico" in New Mexico confuse people again and make them think our state is part of Mexico? And kudos for Toulouse Oliver for getting "witch hunt" into the quote!
posted by filthy light thief at 1:17 PM on July 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


flt: "...think our state is part of Mexico?"

One of our 50 is missing.
posted by mon-ma-tron at 1:22 PM on July 5, 2017


John Marshall writes about how far a policy of "strength and resolve" gets you when dealing with North Korea: Trump’s Korea Policy is a Fast-Forward, Stupider Version of Bush’s.
posted by peeedro at 1:25 PM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


That list of 41 states is misleading. I'd characterize my state of Georgia as being in full compliance, as it's handing over everything publicly available through state law, which is exactly what the commission asked for.

That is in fact what many of the states are doing--just because they're refusing to hand over social security numbers doesn't mean they aren't complying. Just means that data isn't publicly available under state law.

I made the point to my SoS that compliance in any way is validation of their idiocy, and that if the commission wants the publicly available data, they can damn well walk into the appropriate office and at least pay the $250 fee.
posted by Room 101 at 1:28 PM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


spitbull: Of course the theory on Reddit, where HanAssholeSolo has gone dark and removed all his posts, is that this is a pre-emptive apology in fear of being doxxed.

I sometimes wonder how many anonymous Trump-loving cretins online have real jobs or reputations that might be at risk if their neighbors or bosses knew they stayed up nights making racist memes.


Looking waay back to the heady, optimistic days of early POTUS 45:
As host of the first Saturday Night Live episode following Donald Trump’s inauguration, Aziz Ansari urged the president to speak out against a small pocket of his supporters the comedian calls “lowercase KKK.”

These people, he said, have “gotten way too fired up about the Trump thing for the wrong reasons. I’m talking about these people that, as soon as Trump won, they’re like, ‘We don’t have to pretend like we’re not racist anymore! We don’t have to pretend anymore! We can be racist again! Whoo!'”

“If you’re one of these people, please go back to pretending,” he added. “You’ve got to go back to pretending. I’m so sorry we never thanked you for your service. We never realized how much effort you were putting into the pretending. But you gotta go back to pretending.
On the other hand, if the tale of Robert Fisher, son of a preacher, GOP NH House Representative and creator of r/TheRedpill can teach assholes that being an asshole online is just like being an asshole in real life, but potentially with bigger and more lasting impacts, then I'll celebrate this tiny glimmer of goodness from the toxic plague of dumpster fires that is 2017.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:33 PM on July 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


Why Merkel Is Ready for a Showdown in Hamburg
Once alone at the top in Europe, the German chancellor now has strong allies as she tries to rescue the G20 summit

posted by infini at 1:42 PM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Randy Bryce, a Democrat challenging House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) for his seat, raised more than $430,000 in the first 12 days of his campaign.

That money, according to Bryce's campaign, came from more than 16,000 donations, amounting to an average contribution of a little more than $25.
Dem challenging Paul Ryan raises $430K in campaign's first 12 days (Mark Greenwood / The Hill)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:43 PM on July 5, 2017 [38 favorites]


I feel like this doxxing are we evil yes no moment is metonymy for something else, like all the other HanAssholeSolos and their hate at the Costal Elites who could bring actual consequences for racism into their HanAssholeSolo lives.
posted by angrycat at 1:49 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


"I mean, have you seen the other guys?" was actually printed on the flag they raised over Iwo Jima, but the famous version was staged for the photograph, so no one knows or talks about this. Funny how Purity Left Twitter doesn't get the reference, which is a pretty clever use of patriotism against the "patriotic" party.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:50 PM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Some states haven't responded to the request yet because they haven't received it yet because the Kobach commission didn't bother to find out who runs elections or maintains voter rolls in each state. They sent the Illinois letter to the secretary of state instead of the proper office, the state board of elections. The SoS forwarded it on to the SBE, who just received it in the last 24 hours. That's why some other states have yet to respond too ... They haven't gotten it because it was sent to the wrong place!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:53 PM on July 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


oh god, that twitter Rustic Etruscan. It's like Glenn Greenwald was a communicable disease.
posted by Justinian at 1:55 PM on July 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Those stickers are not nearly as bad as Purity Left Twitter, but they're still really cringe-worthy.
posted by zachlipton at 1:58 PM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well, that was a twitter thread chock full of giant fucking assholes.

(I am sorry but I do not trust any of these people to not take a hard right at Pismo Beach and wind up on Team Trump in two years' time. Prove me wrong, guys.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:58 PM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


(Am I missing some vital Lefty rod or cone that is not allowing me to see the awfulness of those stickers? They seem in line with like every third meme that comes across my Facebook.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:00 PM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


People didn't vote or didn't vote for Clinton and see Trump as a disaster but not one of their own making?

I mean maybe @maplecocaine just does meth and gets angry at Clinton every day for no good reason, but it seems like there's some psychological displacement here.
posted by angrycat at 2:02 PM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


we'd have single payer if the democrats made better stickers, I guess?
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:06 PM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


(Am I missing some vital Lefty rod or cone that is not allowing me to see the awfulness of those stickers? They seem in line with like every third meme that comes across my Facebook.)

"She persisted, we resisted" makes it sound like we resisted her persistence, which is weird. "Resist and Persist" is much better. "I mean, have you seen the other guys?" is an atrocious slogan that demonstrably doesn't work, and is really the most offensive of any of these. Even the casual style shows what a complacent line it is. Finally, the fonts are atrocious and not easily readable, which lessens the effect of "Make Congress Blue Again." I think it's sad and funny that the DCCC's stickers aren't more about what the Democrats are about, especially as the Republicans prepare to give a massive tax cut to the rich and pay for it with the further destruction of the safety net for the country's poorest. The woman who persisted, after all, is getting on board with single-payer healthcare, which makes for great bumper-sticker material.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:07 PM on July 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


(Am I missing some vital Lefty rod or cone that is not allowing me to see the awfulness of those stickers? They seem in line with like every third meme that comes across my Facebook.)

"She persisted, we resisted" can be read such that we resisted whatever she was doing when she was persisting.

"I mean, have you seen the other guys?" can be read that you have so little faith in your own message that the strongest argument you can make for yourself is that you are not Them.

"Make Congress blue again" can be read "Make Congress obscene again".
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:07 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's not just that person, I have actual friends in real life who "couldn't bring themselves" to vote Clinton and still to this day insist "they were both just as bad". The purity left / bothsides abstentions were a huge part of 2016, both contributing to the overall environment and the outcome, and most of the instigators are still peddling the same shit with no awareness or responsibility.

They'll be right there to vote Jill Stein 2020 over Corey Booker, and insisting that "Booker would be as bad because he's close to Wall Street", you can count on that.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:08 PM on July 5, 2017 [39 favorites]


Andrew Auernheimer, the notorious hacker and Internet troll known as ‘Weev,’ rallied the neo-Nazi Daily Stormer’s troll army for its latest campaign this morning, claiming that CNN was blackmailing a “teen shitposter.”

“We are going to track down your parents. We are going to track down your siblings. We are going to track down your spouses. We are going to track down your children. Because hey, that’s what you guys get to do, right? We’re going to see how you like it when our reporters are hunting down your children,” continued Auernheimer.

Auernheimer instructed CNN employees that do not want to be doxed to quit within the week and denounce the organization’s alleged blackmail.

posted by gucci mane at 2:09 PM on July 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


(Am I missing some vital Lefty rod or cone that is not allowing me to see the awfulness of those stickers? They seem in line with like every third meme that comes across my Facebook.)

My read on the comments was that "She persisted, we resisted" was being read as we resisted Clinton. Which was not at all how I read it; I took it as what we have done in the time since the election. If I am right in how it's being read then it may well be a perfect rorschach for who has moved on from the primary and who's still litigating it (and will be forever).
posted by phearlez at 2:09 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


I mean, I have a Love Trumps Hate button, so what do I know?
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:09 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Maybe I'm being naive but I feel like this doxxing discussion wouldn't be happening if CNN just named him in a normal news expose instead of this weird "we know who it is and we'll tell the world if he does it again" power play.
posted by BeginAgain at 2:10 PM on July 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


> "Make Congress blue again" can be read "Make Congress obscene again".

Oh, come the fuck on.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:10 PM on July 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Always good to remember that almost 3 million more voters did vote for Clinton.
Maybe fixing the electoral college system, and it's historical susceptibility to voter suppression is what everyone should be raging out on.
posted by rc3spencer at 2:12 PM on July 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


LA Times: Stakes are high for Trump's meeting with Putin. Here's what to expect. (emphasis added)
Should Trump prove unprepared, that won’t be for lack of effort on the Americans’ side.

Leading up to his first face-to-face meeting with Putin, U.S. intelligence officials have prepared a detailed psychological profile of the long-serving Russian strongman, a former KGB officer who spent decades recruiting spies for the Soviet Union and mastered the art of bending people to his will.

The profile, according to two U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the preparations, is part of a thick binder prepared for Trump. The president often doesn’t read the usual briefing books and relies on in-person briefings, the officials said, so aides also have written a list of tweet-length sentences that summarize the main points Trump could bring up with Putin.
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on July 5, 2017 [39 favorites]


They'll be right there to vote Jill Stein 2020 over Corey Booker, and insisting that "Booker would be as bad because he's close to Wall Street", you can count on that.

100%. An (otherwise apparently sane) associate told me recently that the only acceptable D candidates for president are Bernie and maybe Tulsi Gabbard, and that they would refuse to vote for anyone else. This kind of thing is way too common and I am forever at a loss for any explanation other than "useful idiots."
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:16 PM on July 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Unfortunately, fixing the electoral college requires red states to willingly give up power. This seems... unlikely. The growing disparity in voting power between residents of red states and blue states is the most likely line of fracture in the stability of the USA in the coming decades in my opinion.
posted by Justinian at 2:16 PM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Basically all 10 million Swedes feel they have a lot in common (and they do!); but 320 million Americans live in a wild diversity of places, cultures, backgrounds, races, etc. I mean there's close to 13 million people in Illinois and plenty of people in Chicago and the suburbs can't even IMAGINE what it's like to live downstate (even in the cities!), and reject adequate downstate school funding because if those of us south of I-80 had made appropriate life choices, we'd live in the suburbs and have better jobs and not need school funding equalization; it's a sign of laziness and backwardsness to live downstate.

This is from really far up there, but I'm going to comment anyway because I've heard it a lot also from legit left-leaning social scientists (as you say, Eyebrows). But that really doesn't make it right. Like the whole WWC debacle, it's a bad excuse used by some in the US for purposes that are hard to understand from here. When the same argument is used on the left and the far right here in Europe it is a transparently racist dogwhistle ("Oh, we don't want our nice peaceful countries to end up like the US, do we?"). In Germany and some other countries, universal welfare has a long conservative history as a device specifically for dealing with such conflicts as the urban - rural divide and diverse populations*, which is why Germany's welfare system is basically a conservative welfare model with lots of private and church participation.
Even though many European countries and all Scandinavian countries are less diverse that the US, they are not entirely homogeneous and never were. Both Finland, Sweden and Norway have always had Sami people, Finland has a large(-ish) Swedish minority, and small Russian and Estonian minorities. Denmark has had all sorts of minorities and immigrants throughout history, even very large groups. All this before we even start on the recent migrations.
More importantly in regard to the above quoted, except from Norway where lots and lots of oil-money have been used deliberately to prevent it, most European countries have something similar to the US states urban-rural political and cultural divide. In Germany the East-West divide and the North-South divide brings in some other factors, in Italy the North-South divide is probably quite a bit stronger as a political factor than the urban-rural, but it's the same type of thing. Even in Denmark, which a bit less than half the size of Maine and nowhere is more than 5 hours away in car, the urban - rural divide is a very significant political factor.
And if a European country can overcome these divisions and reach universal healthcare, social security and minimum wages, so can US states. The population sizes are similar, and the differences within each country are in most cases similar to the divisions within states. Some states are a lot more diverse than some similarly sized European countries, but heck — Belgium has a functioning welfare state, and sometimes it doesn't even have a government!
Another fact that goes against the argument of socio-cultural coherence as a necessary foundation for the creation of universal welfare is Canada.

I know this can be read as standard European USA-bashing, it is not meant that way. As hinted above, the argument bothers me for local reasons more than anything, and while we do have universal healthcare, we also have a lot of very bad problems, including corruption, petty authoritarians, extreme poverty and homelessness etc. Not to mention idiocy like Brexit.

* About diversity in Europe: even though contemporary Americans see Ethnic Germans, Slavs, Jews, French, Dutch and Italians as equally "white" that was certainly not the case in Europe. And all of these groups were represented in Germany when Bismarck first introduced politics of welfare in the late 19th century. I mentioned in another thread that my Italian best friend was seen as "brown" when we were in our 20's, just 30 years ago and way after WW2.
posted by mumimor at 2:17 PM on July 5, 2017 [33 favorites]


An (otherwise apparently sane) associate told me recently that the only acceptable D candidates for president are Bernie and maybe Tulsi Gabbard

But... Tulsi Gabbard is fairly right wing for a Democrat? This doesn't make any sense except in a tribalism OUR GUYS VS YOUR GUYS way which is exactly what elected Trump. I guess the Purity Left are the Trump Voters of the left.
posted by Justinian at 2:17 PM on July 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Sure, but that requires either buyin from Republicans and their Russian overlords, or winning back control of the states. Finally, 40 years too late, it looks like the Dems are getting serious on some voter access reform and concentrating on redistricing, but it's a long road between now and some semblance of a representative democracy.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:18 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


All of those weak-ass sticker slogans focus on either past elections/events or the opposition (resisting, the other guys; make Congress blue again is just a riff on Trump's slogan). They need a positive forward-looking message or goal.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:18 PM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Gabbard is fairly right wing for a Democrat?

Gabbard's chummy with Putin and Assad and is also mysteriously beloved by many of the most Clinton-hating mouthpieces of the fringe left. Draw your own conclusions.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:19 PM on July 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


All of those weak-ass sticker slogans focus on either past elections/events or the opposition

Exactly. If those stickers referenced single payer, or expanding voting rights, or literally ANY actual goal beyond "resisting", then they'd be a lot more powerful.
posted by One Second Before Awakening at 2:20 PM on July 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


The tendentious parsing of "She Persisted, We Resisted" is especially galling to me. In the run-up to and immediate aftermath of the election, the narrative was about how Democrats need their own version of Bernie -- a charismatic leader who can credibly reach out with a populist appeal. They have that in Warren, who at this point needs a fucking forehead tattoo saying "I AM NOT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT" to keep every public appearance and interview being derailed by the fact that so many people love both her message and her as a messenger for it.

So here's the party trying to embrace that message, but doing so in a way that could be read in bad faith to say something other than what was intended. Cue the outrage machine!
posted by tonycpsu at 2:24 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


So, this is going on... North Korea latest: US says it is prepared to use military force 'if we must' as missile crisis hits new high.

Anyone know where I can get American football pads in the UK? I've already got the clippers to shave my hair into a mohawk.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:26 PM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


100%. An (otherwise apparently sane) associate told me recently that the only acceptable D candidates for president are Bernie and maybe Tulsi Gabbard, and that they would refuse to vote for anyone else. This kind of thing is way too common and I am forever at a loss for any explanation other than "useful idiots."

Such people are exceptions, not the rule. Sanders supporters who voted in the general overwhelmingly supported Clinton in the general, and he enjoys considerable popularity among ordinary Democrats even today. I don't know why, other than idiocy or ignorance, you'd support Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard, an opportunist who recently opposed gay marriage and, in foreign policy, supports India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi, a man who permitted a massacre of Muslims in Gujarat when he was Chief Minister there.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 2:27 PM on July 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


I have a BARACK to the FUTURE 2008 button with POTUS 44 wearing shades and pointing, so I'm also in no position to criticize cute li'l stickers here
posted by angrycat at 2:27 PM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


This is a big deal. 9th Circuit judges: Minors who enter U.S. illegally may not be confined without court hearings.

Imagine if adults were entitled to court hearings too.
posted by zachlipton at 2:32 PM on July 5, 2017 [51 favorites]


Such people are exceptions, not the rule.

Oh, for sure the overwhelming majority of Sanders supporters and primary voters (of which I am one) don't subscribe to this or other related flavors of irrationality. However I sadly believe that it's a lot more than rare exceptions: maybe 10 to 20%. A minority to be sure, but still a real problem.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:32 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]




I'll tell you what, if the new NK ICBM is launched at Honolulu, I'm trying to decide what pithy thing I can post to Facebook to make my Trump-voting friends know this is their fault. I'm leaning towards "Trump voters, this is your fault" because "But her emails" feels played out.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:38 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Those Dem stickers look like they took about five minutes of brainstorming during the commercial breaks so I guess if that's what they were going for then hey, success
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:39 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Another story on the irrevocably changing demographics that let Trump make 2016 such a successful racist tantrum. But his last successful tantrum.

I've been hearing "this is surely the last gasp of the racist old white people!" for 4 cycles now. I'll believe it when it happens.
posted by Justinian at 2:39 PM on July 5, 2017 [69 favorites]


Imagine if adults were entitled to court hearings too.

The white Irish over here in Boston are crapping themselves because they all came over on VWPs. When you overstay on VWP you only get a brief stay at the immigration center because, absent a very high priced lawyer, you're summarily deported. Even if you do have a high priced lawyer it only serves to lengthen your stay in jail. The Brazilians who all came over on B2s are getting hearings because when you're admitted under B2 you get certain protections including a hearing before deportation.

One of the few cases where white privilege bites you in the ass.
posted by Talez at 2:42 PM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I've been hearing "this is surely the last gasp of the racist old white people!" for 4 cycles now. I'll believe it when it happens.

The persistence of this delusion that young people are different! and are going to change the world!, when there are and always have been just as many assholes, fascists, racists, creeps, etc among them, is remarkable.
posted by thelonius at 2:51 PM on July 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


Dunno that this makes for its own thread but the owners of Hobby Lobby have apparently been illegally importing thousands of looted antiquities from Iraq and smuggling them into the US disguised as "product samples".
posted by Pope Guilty at 2:59 PM on July 5, 2017 [60 favorites]


Politico: Dems’ new pitch to voters: A ‘Better Deal’: "Democratic leaders plan to roll out a new economic agenda and messaging strategy for the 2018 campaign after deciding that simply running against Trump won’t cut it."
Democratic leaders are zeroing in on a new mantra for their long-promised economic agenda: the “Better Deal.”

The re-branding attempt comes as Democrats acknowledge that simply running against President Donald Trump wasn’t a winning strategy in 2016 and probably won’t work in 2018 either. The slogan, which is still being polled in battleground House districts, aims to convince voters that Democrats have more to offer than the GOP and the self-proclaimed deal-maker in the White House.

But even as Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi prepare a jobs package centered on infrastructure, trade and the minimum wage, some of their most vulnerable members are already making other plans.
Maybe better stickers are on the way?

Oh, and Hobby Lobby has been caught smuggling millions of dollars worth of looted Iraqi antiquities into the US, because 2017 I don't even know what is this please stop the ride this makes no sense.
posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on July 5, 2017 [34 favorites]


Maybe their weird evangelical eschatology requires them to perform certain rituals with ancient artifacts
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:04 PM on July 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Hobby Lobby is ran by Christian fundies right? In their eyes it's just Muslim junk, or worse, they're helping the world by distributing and thereby destroying collections of teh evil.
posted by Yowser at 3:05 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


But just a couple months later, Hobby Lobby agreed to buy over 5,500 ancient artifacts, including cuneiform tablets, clay bullae and cylinder seals, for $1.6 million — even though the purchase was “fraught with red flags.”

The packages were sent to three corporate addresses in Oklahoma City with misleading shipping labels that described them as “ceramic tiles” or “clay tiles (sample),” the feds said.
Where is Uncle Enzo when we need him?
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:06 PM on July 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Top. Men.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:07 PM on July 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


Hell of a hobby, grave robbing.
posted by spitbull at 3:11 PM on July 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


Oh, and Hobby Lobby has been caught smuggling millions of dollars worth of looted Iraqi antiquities into the US, because 2017 I don't even know what is this please stop the ride this makes no sense.

Oh they've been doing that since way before 2017.
posted by penduluum at 3:12 PM on July 5, 2017 [14 favorites]



Hobby Lobby is ran by Christian fundies right? In their eyes it's just Muslim junk, or worse, they're helping the world by distributing and thereby destroying collections of teh evil.


no, it is not because of a bunch of random guesses that make no sense; it is because they are stealing them for the Hobby Lobby chief's "Bible Museum," threatened to open in DC sometime soon. It is hiring. just fyi for stolen artifact repatriation professionals who want some hands-on experience.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:15 PM on July 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


I'll tell you what, if the new NK ICBM is launched at Honolulu, I'm trying to decide what pithy thing I can post to Facebook to make my Trump-voting friends know this is their fault.

Well my idea is probably too flippant if bad shit actually happens. But I'm tempted to say "It doesn't make America "greater" to pepper it with radioactive craters." (Kind of tasteless, but clear.)
posted by puddledork at 3:18 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Stealing religious artifacts for your fundie-seum is a real scumbag move
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:18 PM on July 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


2017 will be looking up in a big way if they can also bust the Hobby Lobby people for financing ISIS, which is almost certainly the source of a bunch of what they were smuggling.
posted by Copronymus at 3:21 PM on July 5, 2017 [68 favorites]


Jesus Christ. We take a nuke, and your hypothetical reaction is, what kind of zinger am I gonna post?
posted by thelonius at 3:24 PM on July 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


I mean, fwiw, if North Korea did launch a nuke at the US, the US would still have the vast majority of its population still alive.

I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. But I do say no more than ten to twenty million killed, tops
posted by Justinian at 3:25 PM on July 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


2017 will be looking up in a big way if they can also bust the Hobby Lobby people for financing ISIS, which is almost certainly the source of a bunch of what they were smuggling.
Yep. Can I suggest that the Hobby Lobby stuff be moved to its own thread? I'd love to learn more about it, particularly if there's any good explanation for why criminal charges are not an option.
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:26 PM on July 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


I mean, fwiw, if North Korea did launch a nuke at the US, the US would still have the vast majority of its population still alive.

with badly shattered psyches - the reaction could be all the way from mass panicked evacuations (and rural resistance to them) to national war psychosis to massive rebellion against all governments that possess nukes

and god only knows what would happen to s and n korea

i sure as hell don't trust cheeto to handle it well
posted by pyramid termite at 3:30 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Over the July 4th weekend my wife and daughter and I drove up to see the coastal redwoods along the Avenue of the Giants in northern California. They're among the oldest living things on Earth.*

Most of the trees you see are between 400 and 600 years old, dating back to when Europeans first began colonizing North America and long before the United States came along. A human lifespan takes up maybe half an inch of the 12-foot diameter of the smaller trees.

These trees have already lived through a bunch of shitty presidents and shitty times, and they'll be around long after the current fool is gone.

* For certain values of "oldest" and "living" and "things."
posted by kirkaracha at 3:42 PM on July 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


they'll be around long after the current fool is gone

I am not so sure, since Sequoia sempervirens is as susceptible to climate change as any other species... In the near term they're probably okay because the CA coast is likely to stay wet for a while, but in the longer term it'll get too warm for them and they'll start to die.
posted by suelac at 3:48 PM on July 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'll tell you what, if the new NK ICBM is launched at Honolulu, I'm trying to decide what pithy thing I can post to Facebook to make my Trump-voting friends know this is their fault.

You guys might want to recalibrate your hamburgerometers, I'm getting a pretty strong read off this.
posted by contraption at 3:49 PM on July 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


You guys might want to recalibrate your hamburgerometers

no
posted by thelonius at 4:00 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


These trees have already lived through a bunch of shitty presidents and shitty times, and they'll be around long after the current fool is gone.

WASHINGTON (FakeNewsNet) - President Trump has given the forest products industry the green light for the long-awaited mass harvest of California's old-growth redwood forests. Speaking to reporters while overseeing the paving of the White House's former Rose Garden, the president was heard to remark, "Big trees, way too big, blocking the sun. Nobody wants that, nobody. Dark. Shade. Too much shade."

(Fake, for now...)
posted by hangashore at 4:03 PM on July 5, 2017


oh god nobody show him The Happening
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:07 PM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


I live on an island with a ton of military bases. We are in striking range of a NK ICBM. If Ttump' s blundering and bluster results in a nuke being fired at my island, I want my friends who voted for him to know that this was a direct consequence of their vote. I'm being flippant about it because I'm shitting bricks about this possibility this week and flippant is how I get through fear. That said, the people who voted for him - especially my friends who voted for him - are responsible for everything he does. We told them who they were electing And they did it anyways. They deserve to carry the consequences on their souls forever.
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:15 PM on July 5, 2017 [41 favorites]


I don't think even a coastal redwood is going to make it through a nuclear war.
posted by The otter lady at 4:26 PM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Daily Beast: Trump Aides Want Kremlin Critic in Putin Meeting
The White House’s best-known Russia hawk is already in Germany, in advance of Donald Trump’s high-stakes meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin and the G-20 summit. But whether Fiona Hill will be allowed in the room when the two presidents get together is still very much an open question.

According to two White House aides, senior Trump administration officials have pressed for Hill—the National Security Council’s senior director for Europe and Russia and the author of critical psychological biography of Putin—to be in the room during the president’s highly anticipated meeting with Putin.

If Hill is there, these officials believe, it will help the White House avoid the perception that the president is too eager to cozy up to the Kremlin. The hope is to avoid a repeat of Trump’s last meeting with top Russian officials, during which he disclosed classified intelligence to two of the country’s top diplomats—and was pictured by Russian state media looking particularly friendly with them.
...
But aides have been pushing to stack the meeting with officials who might help nudge Trump in the right direction—or at least present a more politically palatable front.

“The idea is to get as many adults in the room as humanly possible,” one senior administration official said.
posted by zachlipton at 4:35 PM on July 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


“The idea is to get as many adults in the room as humanly possible,” one senior administration official said.

Jesus wept. A bald faced admission that the office of the President is occupied by a man with the mentality of a child (or, at best, an adolescent) and it has no real meaning or consequence.
posted by nubs at 4:42 PM on July 5, 2017 [49 favorites]


zachlipton: "Politico: Dems’ new pitch to voters: A ‘Better Deal’: "Democratic leaders plan to roll out a new economic agenda and messaging strategy for the 2018 campaign after deciding that simply running against Trump won’t cut it."

Democratic leaders are zeroing in on a new mantra for their long-promised economic agenda: the “Better Deal.”


I think this is a really good slogan and unifying message, fwiw.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:43 PM on July 5, 2017 [32 favorites]


Foreign Policy Poland Is Way Too Happy About Donald Trump’s Visit
A group calling itself “Poland for Donald Trump” has launched a Facebook event in order to welcome Donald Trump to Warsaw. There are posters up around town advertising a celebratory picnic, sponsored by several of the country’s major publicly-owned companies. [...] the excitement from Poland’s truly pro-American, pro-Trump and anti-immigrant public about the pending visit is real, and they are likely to turn up in greater numbers in Warsaw than Americans did in DC on Trump’s inauguration day.[...]

The visit, in other words, is solely a PR exercise for both sides, where very little of significance will transpire: Trump gets to make a triumphant return to the continent to waving crowds, having skulked away last time after losing a handshake-off to Macron; the Polish government gets to demonstrate that there are other governments out there – big ones! – that share its skepticism of refugees (with a little bit of publicity for a regional cooperation initiative as a bonus).
Take Care: President Trump’s Election Commission Has Already Violated Federal Law
Dropping this sweeping request on the nation’s election officials also violated federal law. The Paperwork Reduction Act, a law with a longstanding pedigree (if an uninspiring name), governs agencies that want to issue potentially burdensome information requests. The statute covers requests that are mandatory or voluntary, aimed at individuals or organizations. The guiding idea behind the PRA is simple: before the federal government enlists individuals, companies, organization, or state governments into potentially burdensome fact-finding, it should have a good justification and a well thought out plan.

To that end, the PRA requires federal agencies to satisfy procedural requirements designed to ensure a deliberative approach informed by the people who will feel the effects of federal action. Much of it is basic stuff. Before sending out an information request to more than ten people, a federal agency must articulate a justification for doing so. It must weigh any potential benefits to the government against the burdens that its requests will impose on recipients. It must have a plan for conducting the request and managing the information it receives. Perhaps most importantly, it must engage the public through two rounds of detailed public notification, coupled with opportunities for the public to weigh in. Only then may the agency seek final approval from the White House’s budget office, which oversees compliance with the PRA, to go forward.

The election commission didn’t do any of those things. It simply ignored the statute’s requirements. In other words, its request to every Secretary of State in the country violated federal law.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:43 PM on July 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


Rick Hasen:
Running Tally of Laws Potentially Broken by Pence-Kobach Commission, or By Commissioners
  1. Hatch Act (Kobach only) (Kobach also sanctioned for misleading court on voting info, but not as part of commission)
  2. Federal Advisory Commissions Act
  3. Paperwork Reduction Act
  4. Federal privacy laws (Judge Kollar-Kotelly wants response, including knowing who is on Commission) (Chris Geidner with pleadings)
posted by Chrysostom at 4:45 PM on July 5, 2017 [36 favorites]


When I heard "looted Iraqi artifacts", my mind immediately went to ISIS's assault on Holy Shrines they did not approve of. And an ISIS/Hobby Lobby coordinated effort made WAY TOO MUCH SENSE.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:48 PM on July 5, 2017 [19 favorites]



From all I've been reading it's doubtful that NK can put a nuke on those missles yet so no need to worry short term.

Besides that things would have to be really, really bad for him to lob one at the US because it's basically committing suicide. The guy is a meglomaniac and dictator extrodinaire but there little to indicate that he's first strike irrational. NKs program is about deterrence and upping it's power level in the geo political world. The exact same thing that every other nuke country has them for. Having a nuke lets a small state move up the ladder to where the big boys and girls sit.

If there is any nuke country in the current world that is likely to lob one at someone else it's the US because right now the leader is not only a meglomaniac he's unstable, stupid, a bully, a sociopath and more then likely in some sort of mental decline. I have no faith that he is even capable of understanding what deterrence is and why launching a nuke is bad idea even beyond the amount of people it would kill. I have no doubt whatsoever that if he hasn't already he will talk about launching a nuke to deal with a problem and the only thing that will stop this from happening will be whoever is around him.

I understand the concern and worry. NK's missile does have major geo-political ramifications and is going to cause the realignment that is already occuring because of Trump to speed-up and take a different directions. It is going to change things of that there is no doubt. It's a tricky, tricky business to sort out without really bad things happening.

Unfortunately as I see it the biggest threat for screwing it up and doing the thing that will make it worse is the US because of Trump. I can totally see him wanting to go to war over this and stumbling into something that could lead to WWIII. And if that happens it won't just be the West Coast in danger from NK.
posted by Jalliah at 4:48 PM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


NYTimes Trump May Find Some Allies on Climate Change at G-20 Meeting
In recent days, however, those aiming to isolate the United States on climate issues have softened their language to say they hope an “overwhelming majority” embrace the Paris agreement. Saudi Arabia has indicated it is unlikely to climb on board and Russia, Turkey and Indonesia are sending mixed signals about how forcefully they will declare their support for the Paris deal.[...]

Some fear the future of the Paris agreement itself could be at stake. At a minimum, a weak statement or one that fails to clearly cast the United States as a renegade on climate change would signal that leaders are reluctant to jeopardize deals on trade or security by antagonizing the Trump administration over climate issues.
First thing I uttered upon reading this...that evil orange fuck. If he single-handedly destroys the Paris Climate Agreement....I can't write my true thoughts for fear of getting a visit from the Secret Service.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on July 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Politico Trump Organization renews rights to TrumpTowerMoscow.com
Some of the domains reference the company’s various existing business ventures, such as its golf courses and hotels, while others describe products or properties the Trump Organization has yet to develop, including TrumpTowerLondon.com.

The Trump Organization’s claim on hundreds of the web domains was set to expire at the end of June or the start of July. Among some of the websites the company re-registered last Wednesday: some URLs referencing Donald Trump poker, the political site ElectTrump.com and the two domains referencing potential business ventures in Russia.
WARNING: Sensitive viewers may wish to avoid clicking as link contains photo of Trump offspring.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:00 PM on July 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


offspring

"Spawn" is the word you're looking for.
posted by spitbull at 5:04 PM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


Or spoor.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:26 PM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


The ongoing failure of the American left to differentiate between a centrist neoliberal and a white nationalist fascist is deeply troubling, dangerous, and embarrassing.
posted by supercrayon at 5:29 PM on July 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


As for my love life, my new rule is that I don't date people who didn't vote for Clinton. It lowers my dating pool, but it's well worth it.

I don't shop anywhere I know to be Trumpy, and any new people I meet are quickly scanned for Trump leanings. Any more than 3-4% "well, maybe if" and *wshhht!*. Ciaoder, Foghorn. We're done here. It's kind of nice, no fuss "Oh Clinton was concerning? Yeah I've heard that, well, great pâte but I gotta motor if I'm gonna mumblemumble". Zoooom.
posted by petebest at 5:33 PM on July 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


NYT (Davis/Thrush): Trump Aides’ Biggest Worry About Europe Trip: Meeting With Putin
Even his top aides do not know precisely what Mr. Trump will decide to say or do when he and Mr. Putin meet face to face on Friday on the sidelines of the Group of 20 economic summit gathering in Hamburg, Germany. And that is what most worries those advisers as well as officials across his administration as Mr. Trump begins his second foreign trip as president, stopping first in Warsaw to give an address on Thursday and then heading to Hamburg.

The highly anticipated conversation with Mr. Putin is in many ways a necessity, given the critical disputes separating the United States and Russia. But it also poses risks for Mr. Trump, who faces a web of investigations into his campaign’s possible links to Russia, as well as questions about his willingness to take on Moscow for its military aggression and election meddling on his behalf. The air of uncertainty about the meeting is only heightened by the president’s propensity for unpredictable utterances and awkward optics.
...
Mr. Trump himself does not appear to be troubled by the meeting. He has told aides he is more annoyed by the prospect of being scolded by the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and other leaders for pulling out of the Paris climate accords and for his hard line on immigration.

Mr. Trump’s team said he might bring up Russia’s documented meddling in the 2016 election, but he is unlikely to dwell on it: Doing so would emphasize doubts about the legitimacy of his election.
posted by zachlipton at 5:33 PM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** WI-01 (2018) -- As mentioned upstream, Randy Bryce is raising a lot of money ($430k in just 12 days). He's also already attracted the attention of the NRCC (i.e., they're at least a little worried).

** AHCA/BCRA -- PPP poll has GOP healthcare plans super unpopular in IA (27/54), CO (26/59), and NC (33/53). All three states have GOP senators up in 2020; two of them (Gardner and Tillis) already trail the generic Dem.

** Odds & ends:
-- Every Senate cycle since they went to popular elections in 1913 have featured at least two retirements, but so far, no confirmed retirements for 2018 (29 confirmed running again, four no announcement yet). Incumbency is highly correlated with re-election, of course.

-- OpenElections is a group that is working to develop freely available precinct-level data for elections. You can help!

-- A group is working to place an initiative on the 2018 Utah ballot to establish an independent voting commission. This would likely result in at least one more Dem seat (SLC is all parceled out). Getting initiatives on the ballot in Utah is somewhat challenging, though.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:34 PM on July 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


Desperate for Trump to read their memos, aides have condensed them into 140 characters.

This is what we've come to.

I feel like someone should do a parody of "I Don't Need Anything But You" from Annie, only with "I Won't Read Anything But Tweets."
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:39 PM on July 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


I don't think anything Trump says or doesn't say is going to faze Putin a bit, nor change his overall strategy (i.e., disrupting the USA's and Europe's stability and standing in the world) one whit. The former head of the KGB doesn't blink at a circus act. I'm far more afraid of what Putin will say to Trump, and what that dipshit will say or do to the rest of us as a result.
posted by Rykey at 5:41 PM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


I am really scared, guys. About this voting commission thing and about this Korean thing. I mean I am in high freak out mode. And the coordinated campaign in my part of the state doesn't start up until next Monday, and that's my best coping mechanism to counteract the Fear and also the Loathing. Every so often I am just fucking flabbergasted that this is our reality, that Donald fucking Trump is our president.

If I'm doing things I'm okay. I'm not, right now, beyond a two minute phone call to my senators every day. Next week I'll be fine. Right now I'm just-- I'm not. I cannot tell you how much I hate this, but then, I am sure you all already know. And, like all of you, I have lost so much faith in our party and our county. This isn't how we were supposed to be.

I am sorry, y'all. Next week I'll pick myself up and dust myself off and keep fighting, to save my commonwealth if nothing else. But right now-- HanAssholeSolo, Reality Winner, fucking Korea, the stupidest possible version of the Manchurian Candidate-- right now I'm reeling.
posted by dogheart at 5:45 PM on July 5, 2017 [34 favorites]


> The ongoing failure of the American left to differentiate between a centrist neoliberal and a white nationalist fascist is deeply troubling, dangerous, and embarrassing.

Many do differentiate, with the centrist neoliberal being the far greater evil.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:46 PM on July 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


The situation in the DPRK would be bad enough if we had a functional government. It's one that calls for real intelligence, diplomacy, a deep understanding of the region and the conflict, and a reputation for fair dealing.

Instead we have Trump.

A doddering, senile, simpleton who hates reading, can't hold a complex thought in his head, and has a reputation for being both easy to manipulate and viciously short tempered. Oh, and a well deserved reputation as an oathbreaker who will break any and all deals at his earliest convenience.

Even if the DPRK were willing to seriously talk, why should they believe that any negotiations with Trump will result in anything good? They know he'll stab them in the back and laugh about it on twitter.

If he had a functional government it might, possibly, sort of, work.

But he doesn't.

He's got Sleep Tillerson at State, a man with no particular expertise outside Exxon and a reputation for being only minimally aware and not respectful of those with more knowledge than him, and lazy to boot.

His Defense Secretary is a lunatic with the only positive aspect being that he's hungry for a middle eastern war where he can prove that his god's dick is bigger than their god's dick, which at least means ole Mad Dog isn't super eager to start a shooting war with the DPRK, but he's damn sure not a calm head here.

And this collection of imbeciles, clowns, theocrats, grifters, and assorted scum of the Earth is going to be what we have to go into the most delicate and fraught situation on the planet right now.

Trump will probably sell out the ROK for some praise from Kim and the promise of a new Trump tower in Pyongyang.
posted by sotonohito at 5:49 PM on July 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


In case you're not freaked out enough yet, and need a little something to put you over the top, China and India are having a little standoff along their shared border.
Both India and China have rushed more troops to the border region, and media reports say the two sides are in an "eyeball to eyeball" stand-off.

The Chinese ambassador to India Luo Zhaohui told Press Trust of India news agency on Tuesday that India had to "unconditionally pull back troops" for peace to prevail. The statement is being seen as a diplomatic escalation by China.
posted by MrVisible at 5:50 PM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


RE: DPRK and ICBMs. It's my understanding, from comments in other threads here on the blue, the the nuclear devices North Korea is currently capable of producing wouldn't be small enough to fit on the kind of ICBM they've built.

It's more complicated than NK has nukes + NK has ICBMs = NK can nuke Hawaii and it will be some time before their industry develops enough where they'd be sophisticated enough to make a device small enough to be delivered by missile and still have a worthwhile yield.

Does anyone that follows this stuff regularly know if that's still true?
posted by VTX at 6:06 PM on July 5, 2017


I suppose not too many people actually pay attention to that account, because it seems like it would be easy to reply and say "Here you go", but perhaps not worth their time?

Seems like it was:

@HillaryClinton: Right here. Includes radical provisions like how not to kick 23 mil ppl off their coverage. Feel free to run w/it.
https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/health-care/ …

posted by zabuni at 6:15 PM on July 5, 2017 [73 favorites]


From way up above:

1. doxxing is an internet etiquette concept. ...

2. I genuinely don't see how it's any different. I mean, Michael Hersch is (a journalist) right here on the doxing Wikipedia page for publishing a white nationalist's home address, so it's clearly not the news organization part that's different.


Michael Hersch was a shitty journalist who resigned after he did that because he would have been fired otherwise. That a journalist did something shitty doesn't make it okay, doesn't make it good journalism, and simply makes him as bad as other people who doxx.

Meanwhile, as linked to above by gucci mane, an entire army of trolls is busy tormenting CNN employees and issuing real blackmail threats:

Within hours, personal information for multiple CNN staffers and their family members -- alongside images and gifs of individuals with CNN superimposed over their faces being shot in the head -- appeared in the comments of the posting.

Finally, it turns out that there is one way to go too far on The_Donald:

Reddit is famously the Wild West of the internet, opposed to censorship of any kind, but apparently we’ve finally plumbed the edges of their tolerance. Racism, anti-semitism, and violent misogyny are all OK. But apologizing for them? That’s going too far. Welcome to Reddit, ladies and gentlemen.

TL;DR: The famous apology has been deleted by moderators.
posted by Bella Donna at 6:18 PM on July 5, 2017 [43 favorites]


Does anyone that follows this stuff regularly know if that's still true?

I'm not an expert but I've done a lot of reading today and this seems to be true. What is unknown is the time involved until they could get that far. This ICBM launch has occured sooner then most people thought possible so it appears they are further ahead then thought but still not there yet.
There's also some sort of technical issue with reentry. As far as I understand what I was reading launching is one thing but getting it to come back down where you want it to and deliver the nuke is another hurdle.
posted by Jalliah at 6:20 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


There's a new Collective WTF thread in MeTa in case anyone needs to breathe.
posted by yoga at 6:25 PM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Just to make everything everthing, One year from now is the filing deadline for the November 9, 2018 elections. (Link goes to runforoffice.org, a wonderful site, your city/state may vary a little in terms of filing windows.)

We're a year out from slating the 2018's. Who we got??

And yes, you have to run for something. Hey, I don't make the rules around here . . .
posted by petebest at 6:27 PM on July 5, 2017


TL;DR: The famous apology has been deleted by moderators.

It's not impossible. Mods delete my bon mots all the time and they're not much bigger than two meters.
posted by petebest at 6:31 PM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


If you're Putin, do you pet the doggie and encourage him to keep it up, or publicly humiliate him to demonstrate who's boss and throw another curve ball into US politics?
posted by ctmf at 6:32 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


petebest: "We're a year out from slating the 2018's. Who we got??"

You *really* don't want me to start in with the, "Well, state insurance commissioner has declared, and Springfield tax collector Bob Smith is considering it" for every seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:40 PM on July 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


We’re going to see how you like it when our reporters are hunting down your children,” continued Auernheimer.


I'm confused. Don't we know exactly who and where Auernheimer is? Why wouldn't he be immediately arrested for threats? It's not like some anonymous twitter egg that would take any investigation effort.
posted by ctmf at 6:41 PM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Among other reasons, because it's generally not illegal to post personal information. "Hunting down" in that context was about finding out personal information not, like, bow hunting. I'm not defending the guy just trying to answer your question.
posted by Justinian at 6:45 PM on July 5, 2017


I don't think it's a coincidence that "hunting down" has a more violent connotation.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:51 PM on July 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Michael Chertoff, DHS sec'y under W with a WaPo oped: Pence-Trump Data Request Poses Threat to National Security
posted by Chrysostom at 6:53 PM on July 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


You *really* don't want me to start in with the, "Well, state insurance commissioner has declared, and Springfield tax collector Bob Smith is considering it" for every seat.

Is that a full slate of candidates in your preview, or are you just happy to see us?

But srsly I *would* like a post or a Project or Ask or whatever it is you kids do to make sure no seats go unopposed by not-GOP. Broken down by state. With updates. Because, and NOT PRIMARYIST okay but we f'd up last time and let other people do it. Let's freakin win for once (Obamas excepted. Thanks Obamas!).
posted by petebest at 6:56 PM on July 5, 2017


RE: DPRK and ICBMs. It's my understanding, from comments in other threads here on the blue, the the nuclear devices North Korea is currently capable of producing wouldn't be small enough to fit on the kind of ICBM they've built.

My impression from trying to look into it in recent months (based solely on popular press articles, and not having any relevant expertise myself) was that they're likely "only" able to deliver primitive Hiroshima-type fission-only weapons by missile, or perhaps slightly more powerful "boosted" weapons which basically involve putting a dollop of fusible material in the center of a fission weapon, and aren't yet expected to have miniaturized versions of Cold-War-era multi-stage combined fission/fusion "hydrogen bomb" weapons.

Due to international atmospheric testing bans, late-20th-century-China was supposedly unable to construct the latter designs, the most sophisticated and powerful ones capable of an order of magnitude more destructive power than WWII-era weapons, until it acquired advanced supercomputers in the late 1990s for simulations. (Computers are much more powerful now, but presumably there's lots to it beyond just computing power.)
posted by XMLicious at 6:58 PM on July 5, 2017


Is that a full slate of candidates in your preview

Hmmm, I'll have to poke around and see if there is such a thing. In the meantime, if you are really interested in this type of minutiae, I recommend Daily Kos Elections, which has a daily write-up of campaign developments, who's jumping in, etc. They're on Twitter, too.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:10 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Don't we know exactly who and where Auernheimer is?

Exactly where weev is: places where the local government doesn't extradite to the United States Government.
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:20 PM on July 5, 2017


I'm confused. Don't we know exactly who and where Auernheimer is? Why wouldn't he be immediately arrested for threats? It's not like some anonymous twitter egg that would take any investigation effort.

Because he's under Russian protection. He was living in Abkhazia last year and "in January 2017, Auernheimer created a LiveJournal entry indicating he is now living in Ukraine and working as a political analyst."
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:21 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


I was reading a bit of some GOP operatives on Bryce, and I wonder if maybe we are past Peak No Taxes. Bryce was clearly selling it as, "rich people and corporations are not paying their fair share." Now, that's a perennial Dem message - I can remember Mondale saying something along those lines - but I think it might find some more purchase, now that we've truly run through the physical surplus we accumulated postwar and things are really sucky all over.

I might, of course, be whistling past the graveyard as usual, but I do get the vibe that taxes are no longer a third rail.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:34 PM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


"Hunting down" in that context was about finding out personal information not, like, bow hunting.

"Stalking" may be the term your thinking of.
posted by Artw at 7:46 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


but I think it might find some more purchase, now that we've truly run through the physical surplus we accumulated postwar and things are really sucky all over.

We gave the "job creators" lower taxes for almost the past forty years and nothing has changed. Maybe people are finally waking up to that.
posted by Talez at 7:49 PM on July 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think Nikki Haley needs to STFU. She forgets she is just supposed to just look after our important ally, (Israel,) and limit abortion for poor women, otherwise STFU. We have no need for Haley to chatter at China and Russia for possibly burping that kid in North Korea, and getting him to sit up straight and fly right. We need her to get back to what she was hired to do, dismantle the UN with a caviar fork.
posted by Oyéah at 7:49 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Tonight I watched a documentary on Netflix called Keep Quiet, about Csanad Szegedi--a Hungarian far-right leader who discovered that his grandmother was Jewish and had been in Auschwitz. I'm having a lot of feelings. The beginning, where the rise of the Jobbik party was being discussed was fucking terrifying because there are so many parallels to the US and the American far right. And a lot of the rest of it is basically the question that gets asked here every now and then: How welcoming should we be to people who want to stick a toe into maybe not being awful? What is that process like? How sincere can such a person really be? Can they be forgiven? Can they atone? Should they even try? Are you there, God? It's me, HanAssholeSolo.

(Personally, I don't trust this guy. I mean, I'm glad he's not being actively harmful any more, but he got kicked out of being a Nazi, he didn't really have a big personal epiphany that maybe he shouldn't be a Nazi. Maybe they fired him before he could quit, I don't know, but he keeps expecting everyone to accept him now as the Most Jewish Jew that Ever Was Jewish and, like, give people a minute, broseph. I respect his rabbi, though. He might be wrong, he might be right, but he admits that it's still up in the air and he's just trying to do the right thing and welcome someone who done fucked up.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:54 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hmmm, I'll have to poke around and see if there is such a thing. In the meantime, if you are really interested in this type of minutiae, I recommend Daily Kos Elections, which has a daily write-up of campaign developments, who's jumping in, etc. They're on Twitter, too.

Seconding this recommendation. I've been a DKos reader (former contributor) nearly since it was founded in '02, and they're pretty good at providing detailed news updates on the individual campaigns.

(Their analysis often sucks - I mean, seriously - and there's a LOT of whining & posturing, factionalism, clickbait diaries, and slapdash moderation, too. But if you can look past all that, the news updates are pretty good. I often look to DKos to find out what's new, and then scope out other sites, like TPM or even MeFi, to get sound analysis.)
posted by darkstar at 7:54 PM on July 5, 2017


Rep. Steve Scalise Back in Intensive Care Three Weeks After Shooting
Rep. Steve Scalise of Louisiana, the third-ranking Republican in the House, has been readmitted to intensive care as he recovers from last month's congressional baseball shooting, a Washington, D.C., hospital said Wednesday night. [...]

Scalise, 51, the House majority whip, was listed in serious condition, MedStar Washington Hospital Center said. It said that doctors were concerned about infection and that more information would be made available on Thursday.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:56 PM on July 5, 2017


I don't even under stand the demand for voting records, since we are supposed to be able to vote by secret ballot. We are supposed to be vetted by our local county clerk, and then vote in secret. Now my mom died in 2015, we have the same name, for all intents and purposes. Yeah, and when I last voted it was in my mom's district. So are these sleuths going to come up with my mom as someone who voted after dying? Good luck with that. Will they storm my house and demand why I didn't die, or why I stole my mom's identity in order to vote for Hillary?
posted by Oyéah at 8:04 PM on July 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


This is what Oyéah is referring to: David Nakamura and Emily Rauhala, WaPo: U.S. diplomat blasts China and Russia for ‘holding the hands’ of North Korean leader
The top U.S. diplomat at the United Nations blasted Russia and China on Wednesday for “holding the hands” of North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, as the Trump administration struggled to respond to Pyongyang’s latest ballistic missile test.

U.N. Ambassador Nikki Haley chided Moscow and Beijing over their opposition to a Security Council resolution condemning North Korea and imposing greater economic sanctions for what she called its “sharp military escalation.”

She also said Pyongyang was “quickly closing off the possibility of a diplomatic solution” and suggested the United States would continue to consider military action if necessary.
Remind me his much experience she has with foreign affairs?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:04 PM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Not much if she really expects world affairs to always let her have her holidays free.
posted by peeedro at 8:10 PM on July 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


The UN ambassadorship is how Haley is planning to shore up her foreign affairs cred for a future run at POTUS. Expect to hear a lot more saber rattling to ingratiate herself with Tea Party primary voters.
posted by darkstar at 8:11 PM on July 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


If accepting his apology and giving him a cookie for bravely deciding to stop being a shithead will get him to stop being a shithead, then I'll accept his apology and give him his cookie. In some cases I think that even if it's not genuine you get them to paint themselves into a corner being a reformed shithead. Then they either fake until it starts to become genuine (which is it's own sort of punishment) or they just keep faking and don't bother anybody.

Whatever gets him to stop being a shithead and will create fewer additional shitheads is what we should do.
posted by VTX at 8:13 PM on July 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


So are these sleuths going to come up with my mom as someone who voted after dying? Good luck with that. Will they storm my house and demand why I didn't die, or why I stole my mom's identity in order to vote for Hillary?

No, they'll just purge you off the voting rolls and not tell you about it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:34 PM on July 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


The ruling party is bussing in its supporters from all over Poland, encouraging them to take part in a 'great patriotic picnic' on the occasion of Trump’s visit.

And Donald Trump kicked off his campaign for the Republican nomination by hiring actors, via an agency that provides extras, to portray an adoring crowd cheering his arrival via the Trump Tower escalators and applauding his announcement. [Then, of course, he stiffed the firm.]

Same as it ever was.
posted by carmicha at 8:34 PM on July 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


I do get the vibe that taxes are no longer a third rail.

I feel the same. I think (hope) that the Kansas GOP voting to raise taxes after its spectacular tax-cut failure was a bellwether.

I think the very real threat of not only losing private healthcare, but also potentially losing Medicaid/Medicare is making the masses wake up to the fact that many things we take for granted don't come for free. I think (hope) the tide finally may be turning.
posted by triggerfinger at 8:41 PM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Dismantle the UN with a caviar fork. Here is a reasonable editorial out of a Congressional Rep.
posted by Oyéah at 9:25 PM on July 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Regarding the apology from HanTrollSolo, I am reminded on this scene from Quiz Show, particularly the final line. Much like that senator from a different part of New York, I agree that this Star Wars themed anus shouldn't be commended for apologizing for doing something that he knew was wrong especially when the apology reeks of fear of actual consequences.

People are getting harassed and threatened because of this dude and his apology didn't stop that. Outing him won't stop that either but it might make a few more people think twice before acting like a racist douche online.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:40 PM on July 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


I went to see Sen. Al Franken tonight, and I might say more about that later, nothing earth-shattering, but I wanted to share this line on the difficulties of being President (if you actually care about your job): "I mean, I'm glad that I'm here in San Francisco now before North Korea can hit you. I'm not coming back. But the President has to deal with that."

So yeah. That's where we are right now.
posted by zachlipton at 10:07 PM on July 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


Somehow I went down the rabbit-hole and ended up watching this.

I cried and now I feel like shit.
posted by johnpowell at 11:36 PM on July 5, 2017


Michael Chertoff, DHS sec'y under W

*makes rapid cherting-off gesture*
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 11:38 PM on July 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


This thread, by CUNY history professor Kate Antonova, is an amazing summary of the historical and philosophical foundations of the left/right, radical/conservative and collectivist/individualists divides and how they relate to the modern GOP.
posted by Coventry at 12:04 AM on July 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Nicole Wallace, hosting The 11th Hour on MSNBC and commiserating with a fellow conservative commentator about the insanity of the "government intrusion into private life is so terrible" party endorsing Trump's voter suppression commission compiling a database of all politically-active Americans: This is why you and I should be in the same therapy group for recovering Republicans.

It was also occurring to me the other day that after all of the specious crap about Obama's ~800 executive orders, concerning things like the sequence of prosecution priorities for the DOJ, being a sign of tyrannical executive overreach and incipient autocracy, they accepted Trump citing FDR's wartime EO (among his 3000+ EOs) as support for religious bans and rounding up millions of people and putting them in camps.
posted by XMLicious at 12:32 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's 2:00am on a Wednesday and I'm drinking margaritas because I watched Trump's press conference. Sweet, sweet oblivion.
posted by Justinian at 2:12 AM on July 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm in the same space, Justinian, but it's because I realized there's people having actual legal debate over the rights of a guy going by "HanAssholeSolo."
posted by Archelaus at 2:16 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm just impressed you still have it together enough at this point to make an actual drink that involves more than one ingredient.
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 AM on July 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


Trump to the 3 Seas Summit: "The guy from Slovenia pointed out that my wife is from Slovenia. She loves Slovenia!" (Not his exact wording, but he seriously said that)

oh my god, just stop talking, I can't take it
posted by XMLicious at 2:22 AM on July 6, 2017


From the press conference, because it's worth really looking at this closely:
Hallie Jackson (NBC): Will you once and for all, yes or no, definitively say that Russia interfered in the 2016 election?

The President: Well I think it was Russia and I think it could have been other people in other countries. It could have been a lot of people interfered. I said it very simply. I think it could very well have been Russia, but I think it could well have been other countries, and I won't be specific, but I think a lot of people interfere. I think it's been happening for a long time. It's been happening for many, many years.

Now, the thing I have to mention is that Barrack Obama when he was President found out about this, in terms of if it were Russia, found out about it in August. Now, the election was in November. That's a lot of time. He did nothing about it. Why did he do nothing about it? He was told it was Russia by the CIA as I understand it, it was well reported, and he did nothing about it. They say he choked. Well, I don't think he choked; I think what happened was he thought Hillary Clinton was going to win the election and he said let's not do anything about it. Had he thought the other way, he would have done something about it.

So he was told in early August by, presumably the CIA, that Russia was trying to get involved or meddling, pretty strongly, with the election. He did nothing about it. The reason is he thought Hillary was going to win. And if he thought I was going to win, he would have done plenty about it. So that's the real question is why did he do nothing from August all the way to November 8th. Why did he do nothing. His people said he choked. I don't think he choked.
The really frightening thing is that this answer sounds really well rehearsed to me. I know what the man sounds like when he's grasping for an answer, and this comes across as a polished set piece. This is the story his administration has decided to go with: yeah, maybe Russia, maybe someone else, but blame Obama and don't do a damn thing about it. How very Presidential.

And the follow-up:
Jackson: So the follow-ups for you on that Mr. President. You again say you think it was Russia. Your intelligence agencies have been far more definitive. They say it was Russia. Why won't you agree with them and say it was?

The President: Well I'll tell you. Let me just start off by saying. I heard it was 17 agencies. I said, boy, that's a lot, do we even have that many intelligence agencies, right? Let's check it. And we did some very heavy research. It turned out to be three or four. It wasn't 17. And many of your compatriots had to change their reporting and they had to apologize and they had to correct.

Now, with that being said, mistakes have been made. I agree. I think it was Russia. But I think it was probably other people and/or countries and I see nothing wrong with that statement. Nobody really knows. Nobody really knows for sure. I remember when I was sitting back listening about Iraq. Weapons of mass destruction. How everybody was 100% sure that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Guess what? That led to one big mess. They were wrong. And it led to a mess.

So, it was Russia, and I think it was probably others also, and that's been going on for a long period of time. But my big question is why did Obama do nothing about it from August all the way to November 8th. He did nothing about it. And it wasn't because he choked.
Surely if other entities besides Russia are interfering in the election, the President should be doing something about that too, right?

posted by zachlipton at 2:38 AM on July 6, 2017 [40 favorites]


You'd think, but he also failed to acknowledge there that McConnell specifically helped prevent Obama from doing anything about it back in August, so I imagine this will just go on the "pretend and it will go away" pile until something goes up in flames.
posted by Archelaus at 2:43 AM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


There's also the whole thing where Trump was riling up a group of extremely angry people, some of them armed, by convincing them that the election would be rigged against him and he might refuse to accept the results, which makes it really difficult to speak up and say "yeah, actually there is a problem with the election, but sort of the opposite of what this guy is saying."

Which isn't to say I'm thrilled with Obama's handling of the situation at all, but the one person who really doesn't get to complain about it is the guy who personally created the constraints on Obama's ability to say more. And, if we're ever going to talk about distractions, focusing on Obama rather than, say, Putin seems like a big one.
posted by zachlipton at 2:58 AM on July 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


I said, boy, that's a lot, do we even have that many intelligence agencies, right? Let's check it.
This constant insistence that he needs to double-check facts reported by dozens of news agencies irks the shit out of me. The existence of intelligence agencies isn't an opinion or an anonymously sourced scrap of information; it's literally public fucking record. I might need to go scream FUCK FUCK FUCK in the WTF Meta now.
posted by xyzzy at 3:13 AM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Breaking News: Donald Trump Discovers New Intelligence Agency
-Thank God he double-checked, says nation

posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:00 AM on July 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


Obama "did nothing " and Trump has done what exactly in the 6 months since he's been President? Tried to lift the sanctions against Russia and return their 2 diplomatic/spy sites. Every time he opens his mouth to say "Obama did nothing, he should be asked, "And what have you done, sir?"
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:25 AM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Rachael Bade and Burgess Everett for Politico: Republicans frustrated as their to-do list grows
...An unfinished health care bill in the Senate, an ugly budget fight in the House, and difficult votes to raise the debt ceiling and fund the government — not to mention tax reform and infrastructure, which are still in the earliest stages of being developed.
...
If Republicans cannot pass an identical budget through both chambers, they cannot unlock the fast-tracking reconciliation tool to push through a partisan tax reform package with a simple majority in the Senate.

But all that is waiting for a result on health care.
...
They’ll have precisely three weeks before the monthlong August recess to clear their repeal bill for Trump’s signature and also raise the debt ceiling — plus strike any bipartisan deals needed to grease the wheels to raise the nation’s borrowing authority.

After August, Republicans will have to turn immediately to avoiding a government shutdown by Sept. 30. 
What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. AmIright?
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:28 AM on July 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


How disgusting it is to watch our President on the foreign stage criticizing the former President and the US intelligence. I could barely watch him without wanting to punch something and I'm not alone. There's a lot of anger on twitter this morning.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:48 AM on July 6, 2017 [41 favorites]


This constant insistence that he needs to double-check facts reported by dozens of news agencies irks the shit out of me.

Especially when the shit he's constantly spewing makes it clear he has no use for facts, and will lie his ass off no matter how many people who know better are listening. Or are even in the same room saying "Wait, what? That's bullshit."
posted by Rykey at 5:06 AM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Are you there, God? It's me, HanAssholeSolo.

I know it's an internet cliché but dammit I actually spit out my coffee laughing at this! Thanks.
posted by spitbull at 5:10 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yes, Trump condescends in interviews as if he is much smarter than whoever is interviewing him, as a means of dissembling. It's a familiar trope to me from academic culture -- asked a direct question about a flaw in an argument, the pompous but trapped academic reply is some version of "well it's more complicated than I can really explain to you, because I know so much more than you about it." Usually that means "let me bluster while I think of a way out... hey is that a squirrel?"

At the right colloquium table it can be a recipe for disaster.
posted by spitbull at 5:14 AM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Yeah, I had to bail on that Twitter Thesis. HAVING YOUR OWN BLOG IS SO EASY IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 2017, PEOPLE! Write a blog post, link it in your Twitter, fin.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:44 AM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Let me just start off by saying. I heard it was 17 agencies. I said, boy, that's a lot, do we even have that many intelligence agencies, right? Let's check it. And we did some very heavy research. It turned out to be three or four. It wasn't 17. And many of your compatriots had to change their reporting and they had to apologize and they had to correct.

exactly when the fuck did that happen???
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 5:49 AM on July 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


That Kate Antonova thread is a really good read, especially toward the end, but holy hell is that the wrong medium for it! Twitter and long form writing are just stupid together.
posted by rikschell at 5:51 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Trade between China and North Korea grew almost 40% in the first quarter. So much for China working with us - but we had to give it a try!

@DanaHoule Retweeted Donald J. Trump
THIS is how he’s most reckless & dangerous: for him, knowing isn’t as importantant as opining. And POTUS ignorantly opining has consequences
- I talked to someone last night who has a friend who works for a govt agency & was asked to brief Trump. The person was told that when…
- …Trump interrupts & says something completely wrong to not correct him. Rather, circle back around to the same point a few minutes later…
- …and try to restate it, preferably in some way implying he had already agreed with the correct position. Trump, the briefer was told…
- …would need to spout his opinions, but if later convinced the opinions he had shared were different than those he’d actually spouted…
- …that he would probably not realize the change, & may end up leaving the briefing believing the opposite of what he’d begun the meeting…
- …espousing, but without realizing he had changed what he was saying, because the content of what he said wasn’t as important to him as…
- …his assumption that he’d been right all along & everyone agreed with him on this. In short, the people who work w him know he’s an idiot.
posted by chris24 at 5:52 AM on July 6, 2017 [117 favorites]


It turned out to be three or four.

Yeah I don't think the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency are going to give a lot of insight into whether Russia attempted to meddle in elections.
posted by PenDevil at 5:54 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


In short, the people who work w him know he’s an idiot.

SCREAMING
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:55 AM on July 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


And like, all that has ever needed to happen is for those around him to turn off their cognitive dissonance enhancement module so that everyone around him can casually admit that everyone knows he's an idiot.

"Hey I heard your boss is going to run for President."

"Yeah but he's an idiot, everyone around him knows he's an idiot, and they tell everyone else he's an idiot. He's fine as long as he sticks to slapping his name on fancy looking cheap shit and declaring bankruptcy every decade and a half or so. We won't let him do anything else."

"Won't he catch on and fire everyone though?"

"No, of course not. He's an idiot."
posted by VTX at 6:01 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well I think it was Russia and I think it could have been other people in other countries.

I think that he has used a similar line every single time he has talked about it, since he was forced to acknowledge the intelligence report in January (before that, he would use some version of: "Why do you think it was Russia? You don't know that. It's probably China, or some 400 lb kid in his mom's basement."). It would be useful to compile all of these statements together. I don't think he's ever said "Russia" without a modifying phrase like "or other people".

For example, twice in the Lester Holt interview:

Look, I want to find out if there was a problem with an election having to do with Russia. Or by the way anybody else. Any other country.
and

I'll tell you this. If Russia or anybody else is trying to interfere with our elections, I think it's a horrible thing and I want to get to the bottom of it.
You can almost see Vlad on his shoulder saying, "Careful... Careful..."
posted by pjenks at 6:08 AM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Storify Link for the Dr. Kate Antonova thread mentioned above.
posted by SpiffyRob at 6:10 AM on July 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Our civilization is going to go up in flames because nobody wanted to hurt a stupid, racist, incompetent rich old white man's feelings.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:10 AM on July 6, 2017 [72 favorites]


So, it was Russia, and I think it was probably others also, and that's been going on for a long period of time. But my big question is why did Obama do nothing about it from August all the way to November 8th. He did nothing about it. And it wasn't because he choked.

As noted upthread, Mitch McConnell, despite having been briefed on the same intelligence, flatly refused to support Obama in taking Russia to task. What's more, he threatened to undermine any effort by the president to do so.

One requirement for a treason conviction is two witnesses to the same overt act. I wonder who besides Obama was in the room where it happened?
posted by Gelatin at 6:18 AM on July 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


exactly when the fuck did that happen???

So, the report was put out by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which oversees all 17 agencies. This is what people mean when they say "Al 17 agencies agree" -- that ODNI, which represents all 17, signed off on it

However, it was written by the FBI, CIA, and NSA (and cited conclusions from DHS.) It relies on their work and includes only their assessments.

This is something Comey clarified in his testimony to Congress, which is presumably the source of this right wing talking point.

But Comey also said in that testimony that none of the other 13 agencies disputed anything in the report.

If they had, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence would presumably have taken their input into account before publishing the report. So it really is not unreasonable to say all 17 agencies agree.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:19 AM on July 6, 2017 [51 favorites]


I guess the reason we are getting so many leaks is that all his handlers and cronies are using him for different purposes, and they are fighting among each other. The reason the Bush administration was more efficient in a somewhat similar situation is that they were all on the same plan and Cheney was a clear leader. With the leaks, they are hoping to get his attention and to get him to get rid of their competitors. But he like to have a team who all hate and fear each other, that's how he has always run.
I had a boss like that once. While I was laid off, I remained a friend till he died, for reasons I never really understood, so I followed what happened next. In the end, his more resilient employees ganged up and got him sidelined while still keeping his powerful brand and they managed to create a great workplace and business in the end. But there were terrible human tragedies in the proces.
posted by mumimor at 6:21 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Thanks, OnceUponATime. I was just looking that up (BTW it was Clapper's testimony, not Comey). Politifact has an update to an analysis done on Clinton's statement in the October debate, saying that the original statements by the DNI in the Fall cited 17 agencies, but that, as you said, the detailed report produced in January was the product of the three agencies.

Right wing outlets are going nuts in recent days over corrections, e.g., by the NYTimes (bottom of page) and the AP. Certainly that's what Trump is referring to, as filtered through the WSJ editorial page and, later, Fox and Friends.
posted by pjenks at 6:32 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


That Kate Antonova thread is a really good read, especially toward the end, but holy hell is that the wrong medium for it! Twitter and long form writing are just stupid together.

Alexandra Erin, also prone to long twitter excursions, swears up and down that this is where people want to engage with this stuff. Proper articles on a blog get an order of magnitude less attention and response, according to her.

I'm somewhat skeptical about how this is measured since you can't get metrics on read of a tweet, so you're comparing at-reply quantity on one side to load numbers for a blog post. And since responses are more frictionless for a tweet than a blog comment (and creates more conversation) you can't apples to apples compare blog comment responses.

My personal experience is that I probably AM a little more likely to just read twenty tweets than follow a link to an article. But I'm also likely to end up muting someone who does a whole lot of these long twitter spews. So it's more eyes and engagement until it's none, at least with me.
posted by phearlez at 6:43 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


It doesn't really seem like a great argument for Trump: "It's not 17 agencies! Only the FBI, the CIA and the NSA agree."
posted by pjenks at 6:44 AM on July 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Tom Burgis for Financial Times: Russia-born dealmaker linked to Trump assists laundering probe
Felix Sater, a Russian-born dealmaker with organised-crime connections who worked on property ventures including Trump Soho in Manhattan, has attracted attention in recent months as efforts continue to chart the links between the US president’s circle and moneymen from Russia and its neighbours.

In October the Financial Times revealed Mr Sater had helped the family of Viktor Khrapunov, a former Kazakh minister now exiled in Switzerland, invest millions in US real estate through front companies. 
...
Mr Sater has now agreed to co-operate with an international investigation into the alleged money-laundering network, five people with knowledge of the matter said.
...
The alleged Kazakh launderers, not the US president or Mr Sater, are the main focus of the investigation, said Matthew Schwartz of Boies Schiller Flexner, a US law firm working on the probe.

However, the eight-year investigation has already offered a rare glimpse of the inner workings of a US real estate market that US Treasury Department officials warn is awash with dirty money. It has raised questions about what steps Mr Trump has taken to check whether tainted funds are coursing through his properties.
...
It is unclear how much money has flowed from the alleged Kazakh laundering scheme to Mr Trump. Title deeds and banking records show that in April 2013 shell companies controlled by the Khrapunovs spent $3.1m to buy three luxury apartments in Trump Soho from a holding company in which Mr Trump held a stake.
Emphasis mine. If you hit a paywall, try Googling the headline.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:44 AM on July 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


In short, the people who work w him know he’s an idiot.
This has been personally related to me by a friend who often has to attend events and meetings with Trump present. He described the realization early in Trump's presidency as 'everyone in the room realizing at the same time he's the dumbest one there, every single time.'
posted by rc3spencer at 6:50 AM on July 6, 2017 [48 favorites]


mumimor I guess the reason we are getting so many leaks is that all his handlers and cronies are using him for different purposes, and they are fighting among each other.

I think that's exactly it, and I think we've seen this exact pattern before during the Reagan administration.

Like Trump's clown show, the Reagan White House was characterized by dozens of factions that mutually hated each other and leaked on each other as a means of trying to gain influence and power. The President's statements and core beliefs changed day to day, sometimes hour to hour, depending on who got his ear last.

The only real difference is that Reagan had the ability to pretend to be a kindly old grandfatherly type who cared, while Trump is an obvious and blatant asshole who revels in his dickishness.
posted by sotonohito at 6:51 AM on July 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


Rebecca Savranksy, The Hill: President Trump will be the first president in decades to visit Warsaw and not make a stop at the monument for the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, according to Haaretz. Polish Jewish leaders are criticizing Trump for his decision not to go to the monument.

A year ago I'd be pissed, but in this age of Clay Higgins filming himself in gas chambers and misreading Zyklon B off his phone as "Zyklon Five," I'm completely OK with it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:00 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


zachlipton: "The president often doesn’t read the usual briefing books and relies on in-person briefings, the officials said, so aides also have written a list of tweet-length sentences that summarize the main points Trump could bring up with Putin."

Amateurs. Netanyahu understands how to reach Trump: emotional videos.

peeedro: "Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used an intimate May 22 meeting with Trump to show him an Israeli-compiled video of what Netanyahu called anti-Israel incitement by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, Israel’s would-be partner in any peace deal.

Trump met with Abbas the next day and surprised him with a fusillade of accusations about terrorism and Palestinian attitudes toward Israel that Trump said would thwart a deal, U.S. and other officials familiar with the meeting said.

Trump bellowed, “You tricked me!” at a shaken Abbas, a U.S. official told Israel’s Channel 2.
"

I think that a collection of animated GIFs could also work.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:00 AM on July 6, 2017 [42 favorites]


I guess the reason we are getting so many leaks is that all his handlers and cronies are using him for different purposes, and they are fighting among each other.


Obama was n-dimensional chess.
Toddler is n-dimensional puppetry.
posted by Dashy at 7:20 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Alexandra Erin, also prone to long twitter excursions, swears up and down that this is where people want to engage with this stuff. Proper articles on a blog get an order of magnitude less attention and response, according to her.

I'm somewhat skeptical about how this is measured since you can't get metrics on read of a tweet, so you're comparing at-reply quantity on one side to load numbers for a blog post. And since responses are more frictionless for a tweet than a blog comment (and creates more conversation) you can't apples to apples compare blog comment responses.


That's not really correct- you can click on any tweet of yours and click the little bar graph icon to see stats for Impressions, Likes, Retweets, Detail Expands, and Follows. Also, I think she's also said that she gets more Paypal donations/Patreon subscribers when she posts a big thread than when she publishes a blog post.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Paul Schwartzman and Emily Guskin, WaPo: Washington has become the capital of political dissent
One out of every three Washingtonians has marched in protest against President Trump or his policies at least once since January, making the District of Columbia the capital of national dissent, a new Washington Post poll finds.

But a clear racial divide exists among those who have attended the demonstrations since Trump took office, starting with the Women’s March on Washington the day after his inauguration and continuing through the winter and spring with marches against the president’s policies on climate change, health care, immigration and a host of other issues.

According to the Post poll, 53 percent of white residents participated in a march or demonstration in opposition to Trump’s policies since the start of the year, compared with 16 percent of African Americans and 36 percent of Hispanics and those of other racial and ethnic groups.

Ronald A. Klain, WaPo: To win the working class, Democrats need to start talking straight
The honest talk starts with unapologetically reminding Trump’s working-class voters that immigrants — like their own ancestors — have always made America greater, bringing new energy, ideas and job-creating businesses to our country. It means telling them (as President Barack Obama did), that the “time has passed” when “you didn’t have to have an education . . . [and] you could . . . get a [good] job.” It means rejecting economic nostalgia, and embracing technology and innovation; when these forces are shaped by the right policies and a fair tax system, they can create a stronger middle class in our country, as they have during earlier periods of economic transformation.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:29 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Why not a blog post and a tweet thread? Kinda like a video and a transcript.
posted by notyou at 7:29 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Our civilization is going to go up in flames because nobody wanted to hurt a stupid, racist, incompetent rich old white man's feelings.

Yeah, but this guy can get us all killed if he has hurt feelings. God forbid he not be made to feel like the king of the world.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:32 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ronald A. Klain, WaPo: To win the working class, Democrats need to start talking straight


As far back as I can remember, Democrats have basically been doing this. What they need to do is shed the Reagan-era tendency to apologize for their beliefs and uphold them instead, which I gather is basically the thrust of this article.

But they need to do more than that. They need to point out at every opportunity that Republicans sell snake oil. That the myths the Republicans rely on might feel good, but they have no bearing on actual reality at all -- and more, that the intellectual dishonesty that pervades modern movement conservatism proves that they know it. Republicans wouldn't need a dedicated propaganda channel if their ideas could withstand even cursory scrutiny (or polite softball questions on NPR).
posted by Gelatin at 7:37 AM on July 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


Rebecca Savranksy, The Hill: President Trump will be the first president in decades to visit Warsaw and not make a stop at the monument for the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, according to Haaretz. Polish Jewish leaders are criticizing Trump for his decision not to go to the monument.

Trump is the first President in decades not to visit the monument. Apparently he did so on purpose, since his speech at the Warsaw Uprising Monument on Krasinski Square reinforced the Polish right wing narrative which says they were victims of the Nazis and did not proactively murder Jews. He could have spoken at the Ghetto Uprising memorial about the Jewish victims and also acknowledged the Polish resistors who risked their lives for their Jewish neighbors during the uprising.

After Jewish leaders rebuked Trump, Ivanka went to pay her respects at the Ghetto Uprising memorial. She laid a wreath there, which is an interesting choice. As a general rule, Jews don't place flowers or plants at graves and memorials. We leave a small stone, instead. Leaving wreaths for the dead is considered by many to be a Christian tradition and symbol. (Advent.) We aren't supposed to adopt or emulate non-Jewish rituals.

It's not exactly a faux pas, per se. But it may raise some eyebrows or attract objections. Stuff like this happens every once in a while.
posted by zarq at 7:40 AM on July 6, 2017 [29 favorites]


As a general rule, Jews don't place flowers or plants at graves and memorials. We leave a small stone, instead.

FWIW, not true of the Russian Jews I know.
posted by prefpara at 7:42 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bafflersplainer: Win the Future
Hacking the Democratic Party
The brains behind Farmville (the best video game) and LinkedIn (the best social network) have teamed up to save the Democrats by establishing an online “virtual party” (the best kind of party).

Here’s what you need to know:

THERE ARE NO DOWNSIDES TO THIS GREAT IDEA

Mark Pincus is the co-founder of Zynga, your grandmother’s favorite video game publisher. Reid Hoffman is co-founder of LinkedIn, a networking website that’s harder to escape than a Scientology outpost buried underneath a gulag. These tech visionaries decided they’d had enough of business as usual in politics, put their brains together, and created an exciting new group called Win The Future. Its mission is to influence the Democratic party platform and assist the #Resistance. If you’re skeptical of this project, keep these facts in mind: People in tech are smarter than you are; disruption makes everything better; everybody loves winning; the internet is the future; and the group is called Win the Future. Enough said. [...]

WIN THE FUTURE HAS THE BEST SOLUTION FOR CITIZENS BEING EXCLUDED FROM THE POLITICAL PROCESS

Rather than spending their money supporting progressive local and state groups that could do the grinding organizational work of registering new voters, challenging racist voter ID laws, and pushing back against gerrymandering, Win the Future’s founders will do a bunch of high-profile stuff online. This will increase civic participation where it counts most: on the internet. Remember, Pincus’s shattering experience of exclusion came after the DNC refused to respond to the five paragraphs of suggestions he submitted to its website. As we all know, it’s the comment box, not the ballot box, where democracy lives or dies.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:42 AM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


@JohnCornyn: How Many Jobs Does ObamaCare Kill?

@CahnEmily: Apparently to Cornyn, he views 22 million people losing health care as a fair trade for maybe 250K jobs.

@JohnCornyn: Not lose, choose. Apparently you believe freedom is optional
Cornyn's not wrong, really. It's just one of those freedoms like asphyxia is the freedom to not breathe, dehydration is the freedom to not drink, starvation is the freedom to not eat, and poisoning the the freedom to not have any of those things tainted by harmful chemicals. Which is really the evil behind conservatism. You can have all of those things, but no one--and certainly not the government--is required to provide those things to you or in any way regulate them so that they don't harm or kill you.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:45 AM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


As far back as I can remember, Democrats have basically been doing this.

except for the part where taxes or general expenses may have to be increased on middle americans to pay for things like a living wage or universal health insurance

and let's not even get started on foreign policy

the republicans are shameless liars, but the democrats tend to gloss over some things, too
posted by pyramid termite at 7:47 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


FWIW, not true of the Russian Jews I know.

Really? I ask because I live in an area of New York with a rather large Russian and Bukharian Jewish population and as far as I've seen, they follow the leaving of stones tradition rather than leaving flowers.

It may just be outside my experience/observation, though.
posted by zarq at 7:48 AM on July 6, 2017


Descended from Ukrainian Jews here, and we leave stones as well.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:49 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


that the intellectual dishonesty that pervades modern movement conservatism proves that they know it
There's way more than a handful of Democrat representatives guilty of this too. The party will have to successfully purge them, as well as the neoliberal contingent if they want to speak to the working/servile class. But I'm not convinced there's even consensus in the DNC on what they want to represent/who they think they are.
posted by rc3spencer at 7:50 AM on July 6, 2017


The law, in its majestic equality, permits the rich as well as the poor to choose not to pay large quantities of money to not die of treatable illnesses.
posted by cortex at 7:51 AM on July 6, 2017 [42 favorites]


god i hope i'm not too old to hold a pitchfork when the time comes
posted by entropicamericana at 7:53 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Marc Fisher, WaPo: An inside look at One America News, the insurgent TV network taking ‘pro-Trump’ to new heights
One America — a tiny father-and-sons operation that often delivers four times as many stories per hour as its competitors — promises “straight news, no opinion,” promoting itself as the antidote to the Big Three cable news networks’ focus on punditry and the one big story of the moment.

But since its inception in 2013, and especially since Trump began his march to the White House, One America’s owner, Robert Herring Sr., a millionaire who made his money printing circuit boards, has directed his channel to push Trump’s candidacy, scuttle stories about police shootings, encourage antiabortion stories, minimize coverage of Russian aggression, and steer away from the new president’s troubles, according to more than a dozen current and former producers, writers and anchors, as well as internal emails from Herring and his top news executives.
Callum Borchers, WaPo: The media needs to ‘get the hell out of the picture,’ Columbia Journalism Review publisher says
Voters don't get to see a lot of footage from the briefing room these days. What little exists shows the White House press corps asking question after question about the press.

That's exactly what Trump wants.

“The president is fully aware that his war against the press is one of the few things that is working for him,” Pope wrote. “His campaign promise to replace Obamacare is in tatters, his immigration ban has been watered down by the courts, the wall is still only (and thankfully) an architect’s rendering. There’s very little of substance left to bind Trump to his base or to the right-wing mediasphere that has been his cheerleader. Take away the war on the media and the bond between Trump and his supporters thins out fast.”

To be clear, Pope did not advocate a total blackout of Trump's media tweets; he contended that journalists need to “stop treating Trump’s war with the press as if it’s the most important thing happening in this country. It's not.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:56 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


HIS FACE! (Twitter link)
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 7:57 AM on July 6, 2017 [46 favorites]


Josh Marshall: A Right to Free Speech, Not Anonymity
We give broad grants of privacy to minors, victims of sexual violence and a few other classes of people. But the truth is that people get swept up in news stories they don’t want to be part of all the time. It’s the rule, not the exception. It is seldom a pleasant experience for the people involved. Granting a new, special zone of protection for people who spew racist hatred and incite violence behind a veil of anonymity seems perverse and inexplicable. It sounds like a special right to evade the social opprobrium which is the near inevitable result of profoundly anti-social behavior. [...]

The obvious rejoinder I see to this is that there are whole classes of people – women, people of color, et al – who are routinely stalked, threatened and in some cases even physically attacked for expressing their views. These people certainly have good reason in many cases for wanting to remain anonymous or at least keep lots of personally identifying information secret. I don’t have a good answer for this or rather a good answer for creating a zone of privacy/anonymity for one group of people and not others. As I said, I don’t think we’ve worked this out sufficiently yet as a society. But let’s be frank: the people making the most strident demands for anonymity and weaponizing it most effectively are precisely the people harassing and stalking and in extreme cases committing violence against women, minorities, Jews and others. We can’t ignore this obvious fact. As I say, I don’t have a clear or perfect solution. But the beginnings of one must be in norms and laws that prohibit stalking, intimidation and threats of violence that cow people into silence. Simply being able to speak – or more pointedly, express hate and not have people dislike you or not want to associate with you is not a right. It is certainly not a right we as a society have any interest in upholding.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:58 AM on July 6, 2017 [69 favorites]


god i hope i'm not too old sick to hold a pitchfork when the time comes

Seems more in keeping with the Republican agenda.
posted by Gelatin at 8:05 AM on July 6, 2017


Jesus Fucking Christ, from the OAN story:
OAN staffers complained to Herring when the channel produced and aired a promotional spot that depicted a black police dispatcher refusing to send help to a white caller whose house was under attack. When employees called the spot racially incendiary, Herring agreed to take it off the air, but it remains on OAN’s YouTube channel, where it has attracted more than a million viewings.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:09 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


McCain logic: Obamacare is bad for America, but repealing it would be bad for America.

I'm sure the maverick will stand firm until we get a law that's a complete disaster for America.
posted by mubba at 8:19 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is something Comey clarified in his testimony to Congress, which is presumably the source of this right wing talking point.

Thanks, I woke up this morning and saw this talking point about 10 times and realized the bots were out in force and the most reputable publication I could find to explain the NYTimes retraction was the Daily Caller which didn't go out of its way to point out that the remaining 13 agencies signed off on the memo but didn't actually write it, but happily ran with THERE. WERE. FOUR. AGENCIES!
posted by TwoWordReview at 8:20 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


What is this supposed to show?

The woman (I think wife of the Polish president) skips Donald's open offer of a handshake and goes directly to Melania's hand.
posted by mmascolino at 8:31 AM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


What is this supposed to show?

Trump sticks out his hand to shake the hand of the woman in red, and she walks right past him to shake hands with Melania.
posted by zarq at 8:31 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


He's going for a handshake (or more) with the woman in red but she bypasses him and goes to Melania.
posted by Wulfhere at 8:32 AM on July 6, 2017


BentFranklin: Is it just me or does anyone else hate reading these long twitter threads? If you have 20 posts, write an article!

Or take a screencap of your Word document!

Then again, cell phone novels have been a thing since 2003. And most of that was with a limited keyboard, unless you were using an early BlackBerry.

I guess I'm saying that people have been literally writing novels on cell phones for more than a decade.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 AM on July 6, 2017


David Graham, The Atlantic: Why Fact-Checking Doesn't Faze Trump Fans

Link to paper cited in article (Taking Corrections Literally But Not Seriously? The Effects of Information on Factual Beliefs and Candidate Favorability)

Trump voters do not, in fact, seem impervious to truth. Present them with a falsehood from their man and they’ll acknowledge he was wrong. But that doesn’t have much effect on their support for Trump. As the authors put it, “Individuals may be willing to change their minds about the facts, but we do not observe changes in the candidate whom they support.” They know he’s wrong, and they don’t care (that much).

I tend to be an optimist, rather than a pessimist (what am I doing here?), and I hope there is a way to reach these people. But it's discouraging to know there is a sizable chunk of voters who don't care if a candidate is a pants-on-fire liar, who don't care if Russia sabotaged or interfered in our elections, and really this is the worst - say "God Bless America! Rah rah land of the free!" while believing all this. I really, seriously, think they are indoctrinated into a cult. We might need not just truth-tellers, but honest-to-god deprogrammers.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:33 AM on July 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


Ellie Shechet: The Women's March Is Organizing a Protest Against the NRA
The organizers behind the Women’s March have announced a protest against the National Rifle Association on July 14 in Fairfax, Virginia in the wake of a particularly stunning NRA video that kinda sorta seemed to promote shooting liberals.

“We know that we are not safe. But we will not be intimidated into silence,” the Facebook event reads. After Women’s March organizer Tamika Mallory published an open letter demanding that the NRA take down the video, apologize, and defend Philando Castile’s Second Amendment rights, the NRA instead quickly threw together another video instructing members of the “violent left” to “get over yourself” and calling out Tamika Mallory by name.
[...]
The Women’s March Facebook event announces a pushback against the highly inflammatory “us-versus-them” narrative being sold by the NRA at a time when the Democratic party seems to have lost its ability to stand effectively against gun violence and the organizations that prevent lawmakers from dealing with it. From the event page:
Recent actions of the NRA demonstrate not only a disregard for the lives of black and brown people in America, but appear to be a direct endorsement of violence against women, our families and our communities for exercising our constitutional right to protest. On July 14th, Women’s March and partners will mobilize a mass demonstration, again grounded in the principles of Kingian nonviolence, to denounce the false and intimidating rhetoric of hatred and send a clear message that our movement will proudly and bravely continue to strive for the respect of the civil and human rights of all people.
The second NRA ad, the event invite reads, “puts Tamika, a mother whose family has been impacted by gun violence, under increased threat as it does others named, and it is unequivocally meant to create a chilling effect on our communities speaking up and using the power of our collective voice.”
posted by zombieflanders at 8:34 AM on July 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


Rosie M. Banks: I really, seriously, think they are indoctrinated into a cult. We might need not just truth-tellers, but honest-to-god deprogrammers.

Let's start by deprogramming Fox News and AM radio.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:35 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


HIS FACE! (Twitter link)

What is this supposed to show?


He is annoyed that he was passed over in favor of Melania. The more I study 45, the more he reminds me of my father-in-law who likely had undiagnosed narcissistic personality disorder and bipolar disorder and now has very late stage Alzheimer's disease.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:36 AM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


I really, seriously, think they are indoctrinated into a cult.

Look in my eyes, what do you see?
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:38 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mark Penn, New York Times: Back to the Center, Democrats

tonycpsu, MetaFilter: Back to the wastebasket, New York Times.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:42 AM on July 6, 2017 [57 favorites]


Filthy Light Thief: Some time ago, I concluded that Fox and AM radio talk shows (Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, others?) are bonafide cults who have brainwashed their listeners. Jen Senko addresses this in a documentary about her dad and how he changed when he started listening to AM talk radio.

I believe that without Limbaugh, Hannity, etc., we'd be looking at a different country with different attitudes. I know there are reasons behind why certain people are so susceptible to Fox brainwashing (they prey on fearful older and/or less educated people who believe that the world is changing too fast and leaving them behind, and appeal to racism and sexism) but if Fox and AM radio weren't there, I think their listeners would have a better chance of being reached.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:44 AM on July 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


I'm fairly certain it would be proper diplomatic etiquette for the host first spouse to greet the guest first spouse first, so once again it's just Trump being a socially inept boor

One suspects she muttered "oh you poor dear" to Melania under her breath as she approached her though. Maybe that's what's eating Gilbert Grope.

ETA: why yes I just came up with that!
posted by spitbull at 8:46 AM on July 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump Rejected Military’s ISIS Strategy Because It Was Too Similar to Obama’s
A little over two weeks later, the president revealed that his long-awaited plan was finally, truly almost ready — and he would outline it at a news conference in “two weeks.”

Nearly a month later, we’re still waiting for that news conference.

One can imagine a whole host of reasons for Trump’s procrastination. Perhaps, the administration has been distracted by the alarming developments in North Korea (and/or the special prosecutor’s office). Or maybe gaming out a plan for defeating as singular an enemy as the Islamic State simply takes a lot of time. Or, perhaps, the president just has little interest in telling the public what his military plans are, and says “that’s coming in two weeks” to literally any policy proposal he’s ever asked about.

But the Daily Beast suggests an alternative answer. The outlet notes that U.S. forces have removed 50 top ISIS leaders from the battlefield since Trump took office — down from 80, in the last six months of Obama’s tenure. Further, the militants killed on Trump’s watch have generally been lower-ranking than those targeted by the previous administration.

These facts don’t reflect the inferiority of the Trump administration’s anti-ISIS strategy so much as the sufficiency of the strategy it inherited: The military is simply running out of high-value ISIS targets to kill. Under Obama, the U.S. military was effectively wiping out ISIS’s leadership.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:51 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Mark Penn, New York Times: Back to the Center, Democrats

Mark Penn, 2008: Let's emphasize that Clinton is American, while Obama is not.
Andrew Stein, 2016: I support Donald Trump for President of the United States.
Mark Penn and Andrew Stein, 2017: dems should look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:52 AM on July 6, 2017 [50 favorites]


Mark Penn, New York Times: Back to the Center, Democrats

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by a 3-million-voter margin running on the most progressive major-party platform in US history. So not only no, but no thank you.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:55 AM on July 6, 2017 [81 favorites]


Granted, I don't know how twitter works, but where do Mark Penn and Andrew Stein say "dems should look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'"?
posted by notyou at 8:59 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


tonycpsu, MetaFilter: Back to the wastebasket, New York Times.
lol, that article. Mark Penn, who is basically the 2008 version of Robby Mook in that he guided the Hillary campaign from a sure thing to a stunning defeat against a political neophyte. from Wikipedia:
Penn advised Clinton not to apologize for voting for the Iraq War, insisting that "It’s important for all Democrats to keep the word ‘mistake’ firmly on the Republicans."[30] Clinton followed this strategy. She would only apologize six years later in 2014. The lateness of her apology caused her to lose favor with antiwar Democrats.[31]
more:
In May 2008, Time's Karen Tumulty wrote that Penn thought the Democratic primaries were "winner-take-all", rather than allotted proportionally, citing anonymous sources who attended a Clinton strategy session with Penn in 2007. Senior Clinton staffer Harold Ickes is reported to have asked in frustration, ""How can it possibly be that the much vaunted chief strategist doesn't understand proportional allocation?"[37] Penn and Howard Wolfson, Clinton's communication director, both denied that the scene had taken place.[38]

Clinton's campaign was hobbled by infighting among the staff including much hostility towards Penn,[39] and disagreement in strategy such as between Penn's strategy of going negative against Obama and other staff who wanted to maintain a positive campaign.[29]
also responsible for the stupid "3 AM" ad and pushing the narrative that Obama could not connect with "real Americans" because of DEFINITELY NOT HIS SKIN COLOR.

Andrew Stein, the other Democrat signed on to this, endorsed Trump in the election.

these are definitely people giving out quality advice who should be able to show their faces in public without getting heckled
posted by indubitable at 9:05 AM on July 6, 2017 [45 favorites]


> where do Mark Penn and Andrew Stein say "dems should look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'"?

I'm guessing in their bathroom, in front of a mirror, daily.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:07 AM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Perhaps, tonycpsu, maybe even likely, but certainly they didn't via Rustic's Etruscan's link to twitter.
posted by notyou at 9:10 AM on July 6, 2017


I was exactly the kind of voter that Clinton needed to reach, in 2008. I liked Obama and I was leaning toward him, but I was wondering if I was perhaps being influenced too much by his charisma and oratory, and considering if it was possible that Clinton would, in fact, be a better candidate or President. Then they broke out this racist dogwhistle shot-and-a-beer stuff, which they followed up with even more transparant bullshit in South Carolina, and I was out. I think that was Penn's work.
posted by thelonius at 9:10 AM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Granted, I don't know how twitter works, but where do Mark Penn and Andrew Stein say "dems should look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'"?

I wanted to make sure @randygdub got the credit for a funny line. As for the article itself:
In the early 1990s, the Democrats relied on identity politics, promoted equality of outcomes instead of equality of opportunity and looked to find a government solution for every problem. After years of leftward drift by the Democrats culminated in Republican control of the House under Speaker Newt Gingrich, President Bill Clinton moved the party back to the center in 1995 by supporting a balanced budget, welfare reform, a crime bill that called for providing 100,000 new police officers and a step-by-step approach to broadening health care. Mr. Clinton won a resounding re-election victory in 1996 and Democrats were back.
[...]
Central to the Democrats’ diminishment has been their loss of support among working-class voters, who feel abandoned by the party’s shift away from moderate positions on trade and immigration, from backing police and tough anti-crime measures, from trying to restore manufacturing jobs. They saw the party being mired too often in political correctness, transgender bathroom issues and policies offering more help to undocumented immigrants than to the heartland.
Penn and Stein propose that Democrats should win by following Clinton's strategy from the '90s, expanding the national police force, toughening its stance on crime, and poking holes in the welfare state's services for the nation's poorest. Such policies, because they harm the poor the most, and because poor people in America are disproportionately non-white, are acknowledged to have racist results. Hence the joke.

Never mind the obvious absurdity of the idea that working-class people cry out for a balanced budget and the "moderate" stance on trade which helped accelerate the decline of American manufacturing.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:14 AM on July 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


Granted, I don't know how twitter works, but where do Mark Penn and Andrew Stein say "dems should look themselves in the mirror, take a deep breath and tell themselves 'we gotta get more racist'"?

The dogwhistles are all there:
  • "balanced budget, welfare reform, a crime bill that called for providing 100,000 new police officers"
  • "the party’s shift away from moderate positions on trade and immigration, from backing police and tough anti-crime measure"
  • "political correctness, transgender bathroom issues and policies offering more help to undocumented immigrants than to the heartland"
  • "restore the sanctity of America’s borders"
  • "defending sanctuary cities"
  • "community policing combined with hiring more police officers"
  • "It can’t be the party that failed to stop the rising murder rates in cities like Chicago"
Perhaps the most blatant one is "The opioid crisis has spiraled out of control, killing tens of thousands, while pardons have been given to so-called nonviolent drug offenders." They might as well have gone ahead and said "those people are literally getting away with murder while poor white people are being taken advantage of."
posted by zombieflanders at 9:20 AM on July 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


The path back to power for the Democratic Party today, as it was in the 1990s, is unquestionably to move to the center and reject the siren calls of the left, whose policies and ideas have weakened the party.
[...]
There are plenty of good issues Democrats should be championing. They need to reject socialist ideas and adopt an agenda of renewed growth, greater protection for American workers and a return to fiscal responsibility.
[...]
Immigration is also ripe for a solution from the center. Washington should restore the sanctity of America’s borders,
[...]
Americans are looking for can-do Democrats in the mold of [...] Bill Clinton — leaders who rose above partisanship to unify the country,


Welp looks like it's time for my first trip to the MetaTalk screaming cave.
posted by penduluum at 9:20 AM on July 6, 2017 [29 favorites]


Probably the whole "Chicago is MURDERTOWN" should also be included in the "most blatant racism" category. Never mind that there's a huge difference between city and federal governance, every year of the Obama administration bar the last saw murder rates lower than those during the Clinton years, several of which were the lowest rates in half a century. Plus, amongst conservatives and gun-fondlers, Chicago is forever the liberal boogeyman, where innocent and hard-working white people with their hands tied by fascist levels of gun control are forever at the mercies of heavily-armed "thugs" (who are probably welfare cheats) roaming the streets.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:28 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Y'know, I never really understood the Bolshevik antipathy towards the intelligentsia/political class, but with this Penn editorial I'm starting to get it
posted by Existential Dread at 9:29 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh, that's where.

(I appreciate all the clarification and context everybody; yeah, fuck those guys. I was frustrated that RE's comment offered two pretty clear summaries of Penn's and Stein's past behavior, each backed by authoritative sources and then closed with the in quotes zinger linked to some (possibly famous) person on twitter, which seemed gratuitous.)
posted by notyou at 9:32 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, the President of the United States is on foreign soil merrily slamming the U.S. free press and his predecessor, all while muddying the waters surrounding the Russian election hacking, too.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:33 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


The woman (I think wife of the Polish president)

Yes. Agata Kornhauser-Duda, First Lady of Poland.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 9:45 AM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


In Slate, Duke University law professor Samuel W. Buell (lead prosecutor of Enron) says "The obstruction of justice case against Trump is already a slam dunk."
In all the challenges to a potential obstruction case, there is only one issue of substance: whether the president can be proven to have acted with “corrupt” intent to obstruct justice when exercising his supervisory power over federal law enforcement personnel and their activities. Trump could try the novel argument that he lacked the “corrupt” mental state in his dealings with Comey because he believed himself to be exercising his lawful authority to control the enforcement of federal law.

The ultimate question is not whether President Trump thought he was legally allowed to cajole Comey about the Flynn investigation—ignorance of the law would be no excuse—but whether, when he did so, the president acted with a purpose that was “improper.”

Clearing the room before he allegedly raised the Flynn matter with Comey is strong evidence the president knew what he was doing was “improper.” It is also impossible to see how Trump’s purpose here can be deemed “proper” without placing the president above the law.

posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:46 AM on July 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


Saw somebody recommending we all wish Mark Penn into the cornfield and I am here for that.
posted by emjaybee at 9:47 AM on July 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


Those women in VA are fucking brave, and I'm afraid for them, but kind of wish I could be there too.
posted by emjaybee at 9:50 AM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


We can also wish Theresa May into the wheatfield
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:51 AM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Americans are looking for can-do Democrats in the mold of [...] Bill Clinton — leaders who rose above partisanship to unify the country,

Um, so, like, there was an election recently, and...
posted by Sys Rq at 9:53 AM on July 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


On the Mark Penn stupidity, Phillip Bump brings us Breaking: The Democratic Party is different now than it was in 1995

NYT: The Network Against the Leader of the Free World, about CNN:
White House advisers have discussed a potential point of leverage over their adversary, a senior administration official said: a pending merger between CNN’s parent company, Time Warner, and AT&T. Mr. Trump’s Justice Department will decide whether to approve the merger, and while analysts say there is little to stop the deal from moving forward, the president’s animus toward CNN remains a wild card.
How do you not literally go to jail for this?

McClatchy: Dem group to launch bus tour in GOP districts over Republican health bill. The tour starts July 29, which indicates these folks aren't betting on the Republicans getting their shit together next week.
A consortium of liberal groups is launching an effort this month against the Republican health care bill, targeting GOP lawmakers who have supported the legislation with a bus tour that will visit their states and districts during the August congressional recess.

Officials with the campaign, called Drive For Our Lives, say they hope it will pressure GOP legislators at a critical time for the American Health Care Act, which is stalled in the Senate. The tour will visit 20 states — including California, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Maine, Kentucky and Wisconsin — to meet with local leaders about the bill, which Democrats say will harm citizens who receive health insurance through the Affordable Care Act.
Paul Waldman, The Week: Liberals, get your story straight on single payer: "But everyone who cares about it needs a very specific and clear answer to this question: When you say "single payer," what exactly do you mean?" In short, there are lots of health care systems around the world that provide universal coverage through different mechanisms, and we should actually have that conversation and say what we want, not just chant "single payer now." (Please do not use a bad headline to start a liberal vs leftist single payer war in this thread.)

BuzzFeed: President Trump Apparently Couldn't Find A Hotel To Book For The G20 Summit. Turns out advance planning is useful for this kind of thing. Who knew?

And finally: "DOE Rick Perry at coal plant:"Here’s a little economics lesson: supply and demand. You put the supply out there and the demand will follow."" And this is presumably why they made him Secretary of Energy and not an economics advisor.
posted by zachlipton at 9:54 AM on July 6, 2017 [56 favorites]


NYT: The Network Against the Leader of the Free World, about CNN:

What does CNN have against Angela Merkel?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:56 AM on July 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


Here’s a little economics lesson: supply and demand. You put the supply out there and the demand will follow.

Based on the research of Nobel Prize-winning economist Kevin Costner
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:57 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


I demand some of Rick Perry's supply.
posted by spitbull at 9:57 AM on July 6, 2017 [39 favorites]


I guess Rick Perry should have been paying more attention during his Presidential campaign. He put the supply of Rick Perry out there, and there sure as hell wasn't any demand that followed.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 AM on July 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


We're gonna need a bigger cornfield.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:59 AM on July 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


President Trump Apparently Couldn't Find A Hotel To Book For The G20 Summit
In fact, it turns out that every luxury hotel in Hamburg was reportedly booked by the time the Americans called, leaving Trump, who is associated with an empire of hotel properties, scrambling for a place to stay.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:04 AM on July 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


The interesting part is that Perry isn't wrong exactly. I mean, he seems to be basically making the "supply-side economics" argument. Now, the GOP already misunderstands and misrepresents the concept.

Decreasing the marginal cost to produce a particular product leads to more of that product being produced which will result in lower prices and a higher quantity demanded. That can create a feedback look where more sales make it cheaper to expand and produce more which creates more demand.

If you don't have any demand to start with or you're already easily able to meet demand there isn't much you can do and there are TONS of other confounding variables.

This gets boiled down to "build more stuff, economy is more better." I understand what Rick Perry is getting at but I'm pretty sure that HE DOESN'T.

Yet another frustration with the GOP, they don't understand their own arguments and don't understand that they don't understand them so once again conversations with conservatives are mostly an effort at remedial education. Sometimes I feel like I'd need to send Rick Perry back to high school for 5-6 years before we could have an actual debate.

I think it's the mathematical pressure that drives us into two major parties that causes this. Were the system functioning properly we'd be telling people like that that they don't know what they're fucking talking about and should go home where they won't bother anyone.
posted by VTX at 10:08 AM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


And finally: "DOE Rick Perry at coal plant:"Here’s a little economics lesson: supply and demand. You put the supply out there and the demand will follow.""

I love the smug sense of superiority while being completely, obviously, demonstrably wrong about whatever it is he thinks he's talking about. It's quintessential conservatism.
posted by Gelatin at 10:18 AM on July 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


Paul Waldman, The Week: Liberals, get your story straight on single payer: "But everyone who cares about it needs a very specific and clear answer to this question: When you say "single payer," what exactly do you mean?" In short, there are lots of health care systems around the world that provide universal coverage through different mechanisms, and we should actually have that conversation and say what we want, not just chant "single payer now." (Please do not use a bad headline to start a liberal vs leftist single payer war in this thread.)

I don't disagree with Waldman's point here, but that's mainly because I think his argument rests on pedantic distinctions rather than meaningful ones. He concludes:
I'll admit that like many people, in the past I've used the term "single payer" too loosely. And there's a rhetorical problem: We don't have a name that would refer to all the different kinds of universal health systems we might consider moving toward. It's hard to communicate what you're for in a simple and understandable way without such a name; it's much easier to say "I'm for single payer." But you probably aren't — or at the very least, you're open to any number of styles of health system, so long as they cover everyone in a way that's equitable.
The name we use to refer to all the different kinds of universal health systems we might consider is "single-payer." I don't see the difference between support for single-payer healthcare and openness to any variety of single-payer healthcare. Opinion journalism and its readers might not have good words to compare the British, French, and German systems to each other, but I don't think that's as big a problem as Waldman believes. When the debate re-opens, it will probably begin with Conyers's Medicare-for-All proposal, which has gathered considerable support since Trump's election, rather than a blank slate, and people will be able to compare other proposals in relation to that one. I think when people chant "Single-Payer now!" this is the kind of law they have in mind, which is also the kind of law which Waldman says he supports.

Earlier, Waldman writes:
I suspect that many people don't actually mean single payer when they say "single payer." Liberals like myself have long lamented the fact that alone among the world's advanced industrialized democracies, the United States doesn't have a system that provides universal health coverage. We look around with jealousy at other systems that manage to cover everyone and produce health results that are equal to or better than what we get, all at dramatically lower cost. But those systems vary widely in design, and none of them are truly single payer.
He goes on to detail the ways that the British, French, and German systems aren't truly single-payer, and he's right, but what does it matter? All of those systems remain predominantly single-payer, despite leaving space for private insurance in their inception and despite subsequent right-wing sabotage. I don't see why we shouldn't think of them as single-payer systems and potential models for reform.

In short, while it would be good for us all to agree on what variety of single-payer system to aim for, I think that debate lies in the future, once the AHCA has either been foiled, God willing, or implemented, and will not be as difficult as Waldman seems to fear. That said, he does link to David Dayen's piece about the California single-payer proposal, which I think deals more with the practical mistakes and necessities of the single-payer movement.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Were the system functioning properly we'd be telling people like that that they don't know what they're fucking talking about and should go home where they won't bother anyone.

Instead they rail on about mexicans, black people, queers, and that prayer is the answer, and they get made governor.
posted by Talez at 10:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Israel and Palestine are going to be making a peace deal quicker than anyone even would believe, believe me.
[ONE WEEK LATER] No-one knew this stuff could be so complicated!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Here’s a little economics lesson: supply and demand. You put the supply out there and the demand will follow.

Some examples of Rick's theory in action: Sony Betamax; Heinz Purple Ketchup; the Segway; the ET Video Game; New Coke. Suck it, ye of little faith.
posted by nubs at 10:24 AM on July 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


You bury the supply in a landfill and the demand will follow 30 years later
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:25 AM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Like shit, at some point I'm tempted to run in a deep red district as a Republican, say the dumbest shit possible appealing to the stupidest, most bigoted shit I can and then once elected be all "SURPRISE FUCKERS I WAS A SOCIAL LIBERAL THIS WHOLE TIME!"
posted by Talez at 10:25 AM on July 6, 2017 [76 favorites]


[...]Leader of the Free World[...]
What does CNN have against Angela Merkel?

prohibition on marrying your same sex partner is really the greatest freedom if you think about it
posted by indubitable at 10:32 AM on July 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


I love to sell all my belongings to keep my pantry full in Greece, the capital of freedom
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:34 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


If I manufactured cans of dog poop, would there suddenly be a demand for cans of dog poop?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:37 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


> He goes on to detail the ways that the British, French, and German systems aren't truly single-payer, and he's right, but what does it matter?

Because words have meaning, and true single-payer, where no individual ever needs to pay for their own healthcare, with the government picking up 100% of the tab, deserves its own term for describing it as a desired end state for those who prefer it over other universal models. It's not close to accurate to say that the German system merely "[has] space for private insurance" when citizens pay for insurance out of their own salary to an insurer. Germany's system is multi-payer, as is France's -- lumping them in with the NHS is factually incorrect.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:37 AM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


If I manufactured cans of dog poop, would there suddenly be a demand for cans of dog poop?

If you called it Librul Tears, then you would not go broke.
posted by Etrigan at 10:38 AM on July 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Especially since there's definitely a demographic who will buy anything as long it's full of shit.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:42 AM on July 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Because words have meaning, and true single-payer, where no individual ever needs to pay for their own healthcare, with the government picking up 100% of the tab, deserves its own term for describing it as a desired end state for those who prefer it over other universal models. It's not close to accurate to say that the German system merely "[has] space for private insurance" when citizens pay for insurance out of their own salary to an insurer. Germany's system is multi-payer, as is France's -- lumping them in with the NHS is factually incorrect.

I take your point, but I still think that debate will come, and I don't think the phrase "single-payer" will make it that hard to suss out the distinctions among the possible kinds of single-payer healthcare. If you prefer a non-hybridized system, for instance, it won't be hard to say that you want taxes to pay for 100% of all healthcare in the country.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:52 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


zombieflanders:
@JohnCornyn: How Many Jobs Does ObamaCare Kill?

@CahnEmily: Apparently to Cornyn, he views 22 million people losing health care as a fair trade for maybe 250K jobs.

@JohnCornyn: Not lose, choose. Apparently you believe freedom is optional
Cornyn's not wrong, really. It's just one of those freedoms like asphyxia is the freedom to not breathe, dehydration is the freedom to not drink, starvation is the freedom to not eat, and poisoning the the freedom to not have any of those things tainted by harmful chemicals.

But he is wrong, if you consider the logical options. People are going to choose to not pay a ton of money, or any money, for insurance that gives them nothing of value, and will end when they need it most. In other words, CBO is assuming people won't buy something that is of no value to them.

Also, the better reply to Cornyn's question is "how many jobs will TrumpCare kill?" And look, the U.S. Congress' Joint Economic Committee has a Minority (read: Democrat) Staff Report that addresses this matter, titled "TrumpCare Threatens Rural Hospitals," subtitled "Jeopardizes Health of Older Americans and Hurts Rural Economies" (8 page PDF).

And if you're looking for Twitter-length summaries to send out, here are the Key Takeaways
  • More than 40 percent of rural counties in the U.S. rely on hospitals for more than 10 percent of the employment in the county.
  • The health care and social services sector employs 17 percent of all workers in rural counties.
  • The average pay of hospital employees in rural counties is 43 percent higher than the average pay of other workers in the same counties.
  • Medicaid provides health care coverage to 24 percent – or roughly one in every four – people under age 65 living in rural areas.
  • Rural hospitals often have operating margins of less than 1 percent. On average, Medicaid makes up more than 10 percent of net revenue in rural hospitals, and in a number of rural hospitals it makes up 20 percent or more. Deep cuts to Medicaid will threaten the sustainability of these facilities.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:55 AM on July 6, 2017 [45 favorites]


Good news out of Ohio: The legislature had voted to freeze Medicaid expansion, gov Kasich vetoed, and it looked like that veto would be overridden. However, they blinked and expansion stands.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:57 AM on July 6, 2017 [57 favorites]


Is US conservativism not making sense? Is the witchcraft from Hillary's cauldrons full of pussy hats and child porn making you empathize with people not obscenely rich? Click on my profile to buy my AMERIWIN Fecal Supplements. Buy a month's supply for just 10 weekly payments of $4.99 plus sales tax. Take just five a day, and in two weeks, Republican talking points will make sense or your money back!
posted by saysthis at 10:58 AM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


> I take your point, but I still think that debate will come, and I don't think the phrase "single-payer" will make it that hard to suss out the distinctions among the possible kinds of single-payer healthcare.

I think the distinction matters for the purposes of articulating a path from where we are now to whatever the desired endpoint is. I prefer to emphasize universality without prescribing whether the insurance or delivery systems are public or private. If we can cover everyone, I want to do that, even if it's inefficient because it's delivered through for-profit companies., and then work to reduce that inefficiency by reducing and eventually eliminating the role of private insurers. There are others who see that gradualism as harmful in and of itself, and would prefer more drastic, immediate steps toward single payer, even if universality is diminished in the interim (e.g. those suggesting we push things down to the state level, leaving those in red states with the status quo or worse.)

This goes way beyond pedantry to me. Monomaniacal focus on "single payer" is counterproductive. Using it as a catch-all label for so many different viewpoints has no value whatsoever.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:03 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


In the Washington Post, Senator Toomey (R-PA) admits the reason the healthcare bill is struggling is because Republicans didn't expect Trump would win and that they would be expected to actually govern instead of just posture, obstruct and complain.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:08 AM on July 6, 2017 [90 favorites]


The thing is, when it comes to descriptions and definitions, you have more than one audience.

Your average person, who finds insurance confusing and frustrating and expensive and doesn't much care about how it actually works, needs a short description of our goal, such as: everybody pays in to the system and gets what they need regardless of employment. Single-payer, Medicare for all, whatever label you give doesn't really matter.

People who understand that these things are different/complex, especially lawmakers and healthcare providers, are going to need precise terms.

For the first group, you're also going to have to articulate that our goal is the first thing, but to get there we're going to have to yell and scream and fight for it, and maybe take in-between steps to get to it. How quickly we get there depends on how hard we fight/yell/scream/participate in elections.

For the second group, you let them know that the average person won't ever get all the nuances and technical definitions, but will notice if they can suddenly access health care, or not, so getting bogged down is something they'd better avoid.
posted by emjaybee at 11:10 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


There are others who see that gradualism as harmful in and of itself,

i'm not disagreeing with much of what you've said, but one of the drawbacks of gradualism is that it can be undone and moved back, just as we're seeing the republicans attempt to do now

once we go to an all encompassing system, it's going to be much harder to eliminate it
posted by pyramid termite at 11:11 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


My agreement with tonycpsu is informed by the fact that both of us live in a city whose current largest employer is a health care system (with its own nonprofit--for a given value of "nonprofit"--insurance arm). If someone decided tomorrow to do away with all private health insurance in the US, it would be a pretty big hit to my city. If, however, a public option was introduced alongside the current private insurance model, or a public-private system that guaranteed universal basic and catastrophic coverage, it would be a further boon to Pittsburgh as more people would be able to access the massive amount of healthcare we offer here.

So yeah, the language here does matter to me. It's going to scare off people for whom universality of care is important but who may have concerns about upending an entire industry in one go.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:12 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


In the Washington Post, Senator Toomey (R-PA) admits the reason the healthcare bill is struggling is because Republicans didn't expect Trump would win and that they would be expected to actually govern instead of just posture, obstruct and complain.

It's also an admission -- are you paying attention, NPR? -- that the Republican Party's posturing and complaining about the ACA, especially, but not limited to, after its implementation, was fundamentally dishonest. Republicans never did have any ideas on how to "repeal and replace" Obamacare.

(And speaking of NPR, "repeal and replace" is a Republican slogan, so it'd be nice if y'all would quite using it in your newscasts as if it were a legislative term.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:13 AM on July 6, 2017 [49 favorites]


There's some insane shot going down in Poland right now. Blood and soil speeches, confederate flags being waved, the works. He must be so happy.

I do not like it when he is happy.
posted by Artw at 11:13 AM on July 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


If I manufactured cans of dog poop, would there suddenly be a demand for cans of dog poop?
If you marketed it well, quite possibly..
posted by Nerd of the North at 11:14 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Your average person, who finds insurance confusing and frustrating and expensive and doesn't much care about how it actually works, needs a short description of our goal, such as: everybody pays in to the system and gets what they need regardless of employment. Single-payer, Medicare for all, whatever label you give doesn't really matter.

Given the intellectual and moral bankruptcy the Republican Party has shown, maybe it's time to revive a term from Hillary Clinton's first heath reform effort: Universal healthcare.
posted by Gelatin at 11:15 AM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Medicare for All is easy to explain and palatable, too: almost the entire electorate is comfortable with the fact that Medicare exists. If people get concerned about a shock to the insurance market if everyone is suddenly eligible for Medicare, just lower the age of Medicare eligibility over time. This has the benefit of fixing one of Obamacare's problems (it was designed with the assumption of lower ages being eligible for Medicare anyway).
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:16 AM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


You put the supply out there and the demand will follow.

I hope nucular power plants are protected by bricks this dense.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:16 AM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


concerns about upending an entire industry in one go

Just like laws against murder put hitmen out of business!
posted by dhens at 11:17 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Single-payer means fuck all to people who are not healthcare policy wonks and activists (like--I am the "single payer" of my doctor bills, is that what that means???). Medicare for All is better, but that still gets into the "what's the difference between Medicare and Medicaid? how does it work?" questions that people under the age of 65 and who do not have disabilities are naturally going to have because we have no experience with that system.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:18 AM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


The hilarious part is, for the Democratic Party to actually get "back to the center," they'd have to make a hard left turn and drive until sunset.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:19 AM on July 6, 2017 [53 favorites]


Just like laws against murder put hitmen out of business!

The person who answers my calls to my insurance company is not a murderer. The database admins are not murderers. The scheduling operators are not murderers. Come on, now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:19 AM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Walter Shaub, Jr., Director of the Office of Government Ethics, has resigned:

Ethics Office Director Walter Shaub Resigns, Saying Rules Need To Be Tougher (Peter Overby and Marilyn Geewax, NPR)
US government ethics chief resigns, with parting shot at Trump (Ben Jacobs, Guardian)
posted by mykescipark at 11:21 AM on July 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


I think the distinction matters for the purposes of articulating a path from where we are now to whatever the desired endpoint is. I prefer to emphasize universality without prescribing whether the insurance or delivery systems are public or private. If we can cover everyone, I want to do that, even if it's inefficient because it's delivered through for-profit companies., and then work to reduce that inefficiency by reducing and eventually eliminating the role of private insurers. There are others who see that gradualism as harmful in and of itself, and would prefer more drastic, immediate steps toward single payer, even if universality is diminished in the interim (e.g. those suggesting we push things down to the state level, leaving those in red states with the status quo or worse.)

That's a fair point. I think the gradual position runs the risk of never actually getting around to disposing of the private middlemen, particularly when those middlemen contribute so much to both parties and would assuredly work hard to preserve their business. I'd hate to see a repeat performance of conservative Democrats' sabotage of the public option. But I agree that whatever is done should be done with enough forethought that the disruption to the industry, which would be unavoidable, won't cut people off from the care they need.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 11:22 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


> The thing is, when it comes to descriptions and definitions, you have more than one audience.

Sure, but "universal coverage", to me, works as both a concise description of the immediate goal for the masses and an accurate description of the features that are important in the short term when talking to wonky types. Once you get into the weeds you start talking about actuarial value, guaranteed issue, Bismarck vs. Beveridge models, etc. but let's start with terms that work for both audiences and add complexity only when necessary.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 AM on July 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Senator Toomey (R-PA) admits the reason the healthcare bill is struggling is because Republicans didn't expect Trump would win and that they would be expected to actually govern instead of just posture, obstruct and complain.

You broke it, you own it.

In fact, I think "you broke it, you own it" can apply across the board. The mainstream media (I mean CNN, New York Times, etc.) who yammered on about Her Emails! and other nothingburgers, while giving Cheeto a platform all these months: You broke it, you own it.

And yes, us too - the inept leadership of the Democratic party, and Dem voters who stay home during the midterms because meh: You broke it, you own it. Not as much as the media and the Republicans, but still. Broke, own.

Lots of brokenness to go around and much ownership needs to happen.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


The person who answers my calls to my insurance company is not a murderer. The database admins are not murderers. The scheduling operators are not murderers. Come on, now.

I am not calling them murderers. What I mean is, just having jobs for jobs' sake is not a valid policy objective. To be a bit less inflammatory, perhaps I could compare them to whale-oil refiners and buggy-whip merchants?
posted by dhens at 11:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


In the Washington Post, Senator Toomey (R-PA) admits the reason the healthcare bill is struggling is because Republicans didn't expect Trump would win and that they would be expected to actually govern instead of just posture, obstruct and complain.

I can't believe he said this out loud.
posted by diogenes at 11:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


I can't believe he said this out loud.

TRUMP'D!
posted by dhens at 11:23 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Single-payer means fuck all to people who are not healthcare policy wonks and activists (like--I am the "single payer" of my doctor bills, is that what that means???). Medicare for All is better

Stick to Medicare for All, and point out that Medicaid handles nursing homes for all, which is close enough for anyone not interested in the weeds.
posted by msalt at 11:24 AM on July 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


In the Washington Post, Senator Toomey (R-PA) admits the reason the healthcare bill is struggling is because Republicans didn't expect Trump would win and that they would be expected to actually govern instead of just posture, obstruct and complain.

I know. Life is so unfair. Like if the Democrats didn't go ahead and steal the Republican's healthcare ideas they wouldn't have to punish the poor, the sick, and the disabled for liberal intransigence and calling their bluff.
posted by Talez at 11:25 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


In Slate, Duke University law professor Samuel W. Buell (lead prosecutor of Enron) says "The obstruction of justice case against Trump is already a slam dunk."

Shit like this just renews my glorious but hopeless dream that Kushner's cell may be adjacent to Jeff Skilling's.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:25 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


The power of "Medicare for all" is that Medicare has universal support, and everybody already gets it without elminating poor, minorities, etc., and it works (for most values of works).
posted by msalt at 11:25 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


> I am not calling them murderers. What I mean is, just having jobs for jobs' sake is not a valid policy objective. To be a bit less inflammatory, perhaps I could compare them to whale-oil refiners and buggy-whip merchants?

Or coal miners, even, to use an industry more relevant in the present day. The thing is, I don't have to love the coal industry or believe that coal miners are entitled to coal mining jobs in perpetuity to not want their lives torn apart when the energy markets are moving away from coal. A soft landing for people who have the misfortune of working in declining industries isn't much to ask for, is it?
posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on July 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


GOP Senators continuing to show marked lack of enthusiasm for BCRA:

* Jerry Moran holding town hall in KS, is critical of current bill, says could hurt elderly/disabled. Says the 50+1 strategy isn't working, and they should seek something that can get 60 votes.

* Hoeven of ND says, “doesn’t support the bill as it stands.”

Talk is cheap, but this is not what McConnell wants to see in terms of momentum.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:28 AM on July 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


While having jobs for jobs' sake is not a valid policy objective, eliminating a big bunch of jobs all in one go is not a huge vote-getter either. Ideally, an offered public option would be comparable enough to private insurance that just by attrition the industry would shrink as people get on board with it. We weathered the collapse of steel in this city, we could deal with the elimination of private insurance, but even with steel it's not like all the mills closed all at once.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:29 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


A soft landing for people who have the misfortune of working in declining industries isn't much to ask for, is it?

No, certainly not. I would be happy with some kind of buyout / re-training for ex-health insurance workers, perhaps with getting preferential hiring in the first staffing of the unified public bureaucracy. But I would not want to see a lesser system in place solely for jobs' sake.
posted by dhens at 11:29 AM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Says the 50+1 strategy isn't working, and they should seek something that can get 60 votes.

Translation: I want this bill to fail, but I don't want to vote against it.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 11:32 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]




> Hoeven of ND says, “doesn’t support the bill as it stands.”

But you know that's just code for "I can be easily bought off with a billion dollars for my pet cause or a few million for my reëlection campaign."
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:35 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Welp, here's me off to MeTa primal scream therapy
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:35 AM on July 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


The President of the United States tweeting straight up fash rhetoric.

Fox Chyron "saved by blood of patriarchs"

If we're talking spilling that blood, I'm in right now.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:36 AM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


The President of the United States tweeting straight up fash rhetoric.

I listened to that soundbite and thought that Bannon (maybe Miller?) almost certainly wrote that garbage. Sounds like some palingenetic ultranationalism to me.
posted by dhens at 11:37 AM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's a straight up Nazi speech made to a Nazi crowd. He must be so in heaven that Pence is trying to mount anti-gay lasers on him.
posted by Artw at 11:41 AM on July 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


A soft landing for people who have the misfortune of working in declining industries isn't much to ask for, is it?

That's pretty different from propping up an industry with all its negative consequences forever just to benefit them.
posted by Artw at 11:43 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


> That's pretty different from propping up an industry with all its negative consequences forever just to benefit them.

Agreed -- which is why I support the former but not the latter.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:44 AM on July 6, 2017


The argument was "gradual vs. drastic" not "do nothing at all forever vs. drastic".
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:46 AM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The President of the United States tweeting straight up fash rhetoric.

It's interesting that most of the critical replies use words, and most of the supportive replies use gifs.
posted by diogenes at 11:50 AM on July 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


If Medicare for All ever got off the ground, I don't think the insurance industry would hurt too badly. Most folks on Medicare still purchase private insurance to fill in the gaps. In fact, I don't see Medicare for All as a great solution without extensive reform first - there are too many holes for massive healthcare cost increases. Everyone paying 20% coinsurance is a recipe for cost inflation until we are paying pretty much what we are paying today, necessitating similar private insurance.
posted by FakeFreyja at 11:50 AM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


most of the supportive replies use gifs.

So all the bots don't require any natural language processing capabilities in order to post.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:51 AM on July 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


It's interesting that most of the critical replies use words, and most of the supportive replies use gifs.

Aestheticization of politics
posted by dhens at 11:52 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


The President of the United States tweeting straight up fash rhetoric.

Fox Chyron "saved by blood of patriarchs"

Fuck, that is disgusting.

Meanwhile: What’s driving China’s New Silk Road, and how should the West respond? This probably deserves it's own FPP, but I am feeling feverish, so I'll leave it to someone else for now.

The reason I'm linking it here is that it brings another perspective to the whole trade discussion, relevant to today's G20 meeting. I was half listening to a podcast (in Danish) while cooking, and what caught my ear was some guy who said (paraphrase): the Russians see global relations as a zero-sum game, but the Chinese see it differently, they know more trade and other forms of joint projects can create more peace and prosperity for everyone. First I thought whoa, Putin and Trump have more in common than totalitarianism and a love for spectacle. Then I went back a bit and realized that the interviewer had been trying to bait the interviewee into pointing out what China's infrastructure partners had to "pay" for the projects.
As I listened further, I realized that this huge Chinese-led project can disrupt the entire world order, and with the US stepping back and imposing tariffs on trade, the likelihood of Chinese economic dominance/leadership is growing. Also in the podcast: the Russia-China relationship has long since reversed, with Russia as the poor nation providing natural ressources for rich China's production, but Russia is not able to accept this fact, let alone do anything about it, and they are completely dependent on China so there is no immediate risk for escalation. The three experts agreed that Europe had nothing to fear from the project because the Chinese tend to accept local rules and regulations where they go, rather than attempt to impose their own norms. (And for EU, the consumer protection rules and rights to free speech and movement are more important than world dominance, whatever that is). This was all very interesting to me, but as said, I am not able to search the webs for more info than what is provided above.
posted by mumimor at 11:56 AM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


There's some insane shot going down in Poland right now. Blood and soil speeches, confederate flags being waved, the works. He must be so happy.

I do not like it when he is happy.


This was bothering me too until I realized it's only for a few days. He'll likely be all Putin happy tomorrow unless Putin decides to play dominant and (likely subtly) fuck with him. So he'll be all happy and ego all fed and then he hits the G20 and then sad trombone he's gonna end up getting rolled there one way or another because he is incapable of being proactive and functioning at that level of politics and complexity. He won't be able to keep up and although he'll bluster through he's going to be sad and agitated because he is not in control. This is not a place for someone who has no more then a novice ability to understand or recognize nuance and the different levels of politics that are going to be at play. Things like people acting all nice and fawning and saying things in ways you like and not meaning it. (he does this himself of course but he's the smart one) Things like words not said and actions not taken are just as important as ones that are.

He's going to do or say at least one stupid thing and/or he'll be humored and be treated diplomatically on the surface while the real stuff happens in between the lines and in the corridors. He may not even realize what was going on until he reads the news and analysis and then he will be super confused because his reality doesn't match actual reality. 'What? I was a big important man there and they lurved me. I said the most important things! Why are they saying and doing these things! Liars all liars! All Fake!'

He's gonna end up unhappy with this trip.

Bonus for the unhappiness coming his way: Apparently according to insiders he's super bummed with having to meet and talk to Merkel. He doesn't want to.

Poor little man.
posted by Jalliah at 12:16 PM on July 6, 2017 [50 favorites]


I'm not thrilled with "Medicare for all" except as a slogan. There's the the weird segmentation into Part A, Part B? Part D??? ?? There's a donut hole? it's confusing and I'm pretty sure it's not the good kind of complexity. I find it phenomenally weird that more people aren't bringing up the donut hole.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:31 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mitch McConnell gave a speech in which he says that the current level of vitriol in politics pales in comparison to Jeferson vs Adams or Jefferson vs Hamilton and "we haven't had a single incident where a congressman came over to the Senate and almost beat to death a Senator on the floor of the Senate." It doesn't sound like he's setting the bar very high for his leadership.

Sen. Franken had a different spin on the same point last night. He said he went up to various long-time Senators and was asking them if it had ever been this bad and they all said, oh sure it's been way worse before, not in their lifetimes, but the caning of Sumner. And Franken was saying so your example of when it was worse was 150 years ago, over slavery, and led to a war in which more than half a million Americans killed each other.

Imagine if politicians had a higher bar than "we're not literally beating each other to unconsciousness."
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on July 6, 2017 [89 favorites]


Axios is reporting that there will only be 6 people in the room when Putin and Trump meet: The 2 leaders, Tillerson, Lavrov, and 2 translators.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:33 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


But somehow there will be seven or more leakers.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:35 PM on July 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


I find it phenomenally weird that more people aren't bringing up the donut hole.

One of the little-known things the ACA did (because we're Democrats, so we're awful at taking the credit for good things) to was phase out the donut hole. It's a slow process, but it's set to be gone by 2020 unless the Republicans repeal that too, and it sure doesn't sound like anyone is stupid enough to try that.
posted by zachlipton at 12:35 PM on July 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Axios is reporting that there will only be 6 people in the room when Putin and Trump meet: The 2 leaders, Tillerson, Lavrov, and 2 translators.

Hope someone remembers to bring a Geiger counter
posted by Existential Dread at 12:36 PM on July 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Axios is reporting that there will only be 6 people in the room when Putin and Trump meet: The 2 leaders,

Who's the other one?
posted by Etrigan at 12:37 PM on July 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


mumimor, I've been following the evolution and development of the OBOR for a couple three years now, particularly as it begins to have impact on the East African coast. I cannot take the Brookings framing seriously as it implies that if one does not recognize a railway track, the trains cannot keep delivering freight from ports to landlocked countries, and vice versa.
posted by infini at 12:37 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


That's not really correct- you can click on any tweet of yours and click the little bar graph icon to see stats for Impressions, Likes, Retweets, Detail Expands, and Follows.

I'm clicking everywhere on Tweetbot and I don't see those things anywhere.

Yeah, you can tell I never ever use the website or their app, just 3rd party stuff. Thanks for the info, PG, I had no idea that stuff was available.
posted by phearlez at 12:39 PM on July 6, 2017


Axios is reporting that there will only be 6 people in the room when Putin and Trump meet: The 2 leaders, Tillerson, Lavrov, and 2 translators.

[heard faintly through the door]

Longing. Rusted. Seventeen. Daybreak. Furnace. Nine. Benign. Homecoming. One. Freight car.
posted by entropicamericana at 12:39 PM on July 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


Mitch McConnell gave a speech in which he says that the current level of vitriol in politics pales in comparison to Jefferson vs Adams or Jefferson vs Hamilton and "we haven't had a single incident where a congressman came over to the Senate and almost beat to death a Senator on the floor of the Senate." It doesn't sound like he's setting the bar very high for his leadership.

Well, yeah. Republicans have been destroying political norms -- and getting away with it -- for decades now, from McConnell himself flatly refusing to consider a SCOTUS nominee of the opposite party to Newt Gingrich encouraging members of his party to always refer to Democrats in insulting language and impeaching a president over a consensual affair to Limbaugh's decades of radio slime to Reagan claiming the government itself is a problem (and shame on the Democrats for not pushing back on that nonsense all those years ago!).

Politics used to be a lot more corrupt, too; over the years, we assembled a system of laws and norms by which government could function more effectively for the people of the United States. But since that fact meant taxing rich people, they and their henchmen in the Republican Party set out to nullify it. McConnell -- who, in refusing to act against Russian meddling in the election for partisan purposes, is arguably guilty of treason -- doesn't get to invoke the Founders to justify the Republicans' own disgusting brand of partisanship.
posted by Gelatin at 12:41 PM on July 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Axios is reporting that there will only be 6 people in the room when Putin and Trump meet: The 2 leaders, Tillerson, Lavrov, and 2 translators.

And how many "TASS photographers"?
posted by Gelatin at 12:42 PM on July 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Matt Yglesias (Vox): evidence of ongoing political collusion is clear and obvious.

He also links to a handy list (CNN, Marshall Cohen) of all the times Trump has talked about the Russian hacking (and then, each time, dismissed it as unlikely).
posted by pjenks at 12:43 PM on July 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


mumimor, I've been following the evolution and development of the OBOR for a couple three years now, particularly as it begins to have impact on the East African coast. I cannot take the Brookings framing seriously as it implies that if one does not recognize a railway track, the trains cannot keep delivering freight from ports to landlocked countries, and vice versa.

infini, the podcast I heard was definitely better than the Brookings article, but my own knowledge is limited to those two sources and some rumors. Do you have the time to make an FPP?
posted by mumimor at 12:45 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I assume anything we hear about this meeting we will hear from Russia, with Trump and Tillerson mystified as to how they got narrative control.
posted by Artw at 12:46 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]




In mini-Trump news:
Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R) suggested he makes up stories to mislead reporters, the AP reports.

Said LePage: “I just love to sit in my office and make up ways so they’ll write these stupid stories because they are just so stupid, it’s awful.”

He also characterized the Maine media as “vile,” “inaccurate” and “useless” and said “the sooner the print press goes away, the better society will be.”
posted by Chrysostom at 12:50 PM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Longing. Rusted. Seventeen. Daybreak. Furnace. Nine. Benign. Homecoming. One. Freight car.

Man, that's weird even for a numbers station.
posted by notsnot at 12:50 PM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


>> Longing. Rusted. Seventeen. Daybreak. Furnace. Nine. Benign. Homecoming. One. Freight car.

> Man, that's weird even for a numbers station.

Ready to comply.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:52 PM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Via the 'pedia, some context on the beating mentioned by McConnell:
The Caning of Charles Sumner, or the Brooks–Sumner Affair, occurred on May 22, 1856, in the United States Senate when Representative Preston Brooks (D-SC) attacked Senator Charles Sumner (R-MA), an abolitionist, with a walking cane in retaliation for a speech given by Sumner two days earlier in which he fiercely attacked slaveholders including a relative of Brooks. The beating nearly killed Sumner and it drew a sharply polarized response from the American public on the subject of the expansion of slavery in the United States. It has been considered symbolic of the "breakdown of reasoned discourse"[1] that eventually led to the American Civil War.
So, I guess we can relax that we've got a long way to go before we get to another civil war?
posted by notyou at 12:53 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


mumimor, on OBOR? wow, so much is it a part of my daily feeds adn conversations that I'm surprised to note that this is the closest FPP we have on the topic - China's railways. Let me put something together within the next 24 hours.
posted by infini at 12:56 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


the sooner the print press goes away, the better society will be

Isn't it kind of odd to say "print press"? He was probably going to say "free press," but then caught himself.
posted by diogenes at 12:56 PM on July 6, 2017


Or maybe he just wants talk radio and Fox News.
posted by diogenes at 12:58 PM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


I assume he would like to keep Fox News around.

Although specifying "print" does mean not bashing CNN, which is unusual for this crew.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:58 PM on July 6, 2017


The beating nearly killed Sumner and it drew a sharply polarized response from the American public

"Southerners sent Brooks hundreds of new canes in endorsement of his assault. One was inscribed 'Hit him again.'" #MAGA
posted by kirkaracha at 1:01 PM on July 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
posted by kirkaracha at 1:03 PM on July 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


A Polish historian accused of anti-Semitism reportedly helped draft President Donald Trump’s speech in Warsaw and travelled to Poland as part of the presidential delegation.

Poland
Warsaw
Anti-semitic "historians"

This is fine...........
posted by Sophie1 at 1:09 PM on July 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Said LePage: “I just love to sit in my office and make up ways so they’ll write these stupid stories because they are just so stupid, it’s awful.”

As someone who was raised to be honest and trustworthy, nothing makes me angrier than people who conflate "not automatically assuming everyone is lying to you" with "stupidity." Like people who say that "everyone cheats" (hint: only cheaters say this and it is false), only habitual liars treat truth-telling like it's a magical fantasy unicorn that only idiots believe in.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:12 PM on July 6, 2017 [74 favorites]


Although specifying "print" does mean not bashing CNN, which is unusual for this crew.

In the case of Paul LePage, he has a specific long-standing grudge against the local newspapers:

LePage says he’d like to blow up Press Herald
The Republican governor made the offhand remark while participating in a fighter jet simulation at Pratt & Whitney, a defense contractor in North Berwick. In video footage from the event, LePage is asked, “What would you like to do?” He replies: “I want to find the Portland Press Herald building and blow it up.”
posted by mikepop at 1:15 PM on July 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


In addition to the piece in The Week, Paul Waldman has a WaPo article: The dumbest criticism of single payer health care
[Acting shocked about a tax increase] is the single dumbest response to single payer that you could possibly come up with. We shouldn’t be surprised to hear it from Republicans — if there’s an enormous number they can toss around while screaming “Democrats are gonna raise your taxes by a zillion percent!” they’ll do it. But no self-respecting journalist should fall into the trap of repeating something so inane.

There is simply no critique you can make of single payer health care that is more wrong than “It’ll be too expensive.” That is 180 degrees backwards. Single payer is many things, but above all it is cheap. And what we have now is the most expensive system in the world, by a mile.

If we were to institute some kind of single payer system, what we’d be doing when it comes to money is changing how we pay for health care. But when you say, “Hoo boy, it would mean trillions in new taxes!”, you’re acting as though we’d be paying all those taxes on top of what we’re already paying. But of course we wouldn’t.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:21 PM on July 6, 2017 [57 favorites]


McCain: “I fear we may fall under the trap of repealing and not replacing and that would be bad for America.

If you have a law, and going back to the status quo ante would be "bad for America", that means the law is good for America. The More You Know ===*
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:21 PM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Did a Polish far right activist help Donald Trump write his speech in Warsaw?

I mean, I would only suspect they didn't if you told me it was by Hitler's ghost.
posted by Artw at 1:23 PM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Not to paint all Poles with the same brush or anything but like, this is the baseline we're dealing with
posted by theodolite at 1:25 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


The further you get in that article about Marek Jan Chodakiewicz, the worse it gets. Not just a defender of Polish citizens abetting murder of Jews during WWII by saying the Jews provoked their neighbors. Not just a guy who uses "Jewish" as a slur. Not just a guy who claims pogroms by Poles against Jews never happened. But also, the guy who claims Polish nationalists who murdered Jews returning to the country after World War II were not primarily motivated by anti-Semitism. On television and in the newspapers.

Seriously, why in the hell is anyone in our government consulting with the guy about anything, much less the friggin' White House?

I mean, fuck. What does the guy have to say or do in order for someone at this White House to say, "GEE, MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T ASSOCIATE WITH HATEMONGERS." How far do we need to get beyond "Holocaust denial," "the Jews deserved it" and "sure they were murdered but not because they were Jews"?
posted by zarq at 1:26 PM on July 6, 2017 [73 favorites]


So yeah, the language here does matter to me. It's going to scare off people for whom universality of care is important but who may have concerns about upending an entire industry in one go.

Oh good, we've uncovered another grievance I have against the GOP. /sarcasm

This would be such an easy discussion if our government worked the way the founders and probably most of us mefites envisioned. If we could magically prevent the evolution of the two party system so that we tended to only elect the best and brightest candidates, I'd simply tell you not worry so much about minor details. We've elected a bunch of smart people who sometimes disagree but all make a good faith effort at running the government well. They're smarter than you and I, they'll see the same issues, and we can all rest assured that, even if we don't fully understand the entire issue, we don't have to as that's what elected officials are for.

Instead if falls to you and I to carefully research, pay attention to experts, try to decode the spin from both Dem and GOP reps. Is that Dem trying to say that they support single-payer while trying to avoid the term "single-payer" because it doesn't test well in front of this audience? My GOP rep is speaking, what is what they're saying code for today?

Instead of a bunch of smaller parties full of smart competent people all trying to do the best they can for their constituencies, we get a party of adults and a party of racist assholes.
posted by VTX at 1:31 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


What does the guy have to say or do in order for someone at this White House to say, "GEE, MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T ASSOCIATE WITH HATEMONGERS."


I came to this realization pondering the many, many faults of Sheriff David Clarke.

The things that we correctly regard as flaws are the positive benefits to the White House. they are not selected in spite of them - these men are selected because of them.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:31 PM on July 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


Talking Points Memo: “If my side is unable to agree on an adequate replacement, then some kind of action with regard to the private health insurance market must occur,” McConnell said at a Rotary Club lunch in this deep-red rural area in southern Kentucky. He made the comment after being asked if he envisioned needing bipartisan cooperation to replace Obama’s law.

“No action is not an alternative,” McConnell said. “We’ve got the insurance markets imploding all over the country, including in this state.”


This seems like a strange thing for McConnell to say at this point. Is it too much to hope that he will admit defeat and work with Democrats to improve Obamacare and try to win back some moderate support? Probably!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:32 PM on July 6, 2017


they are not selected in spite of them - these men are selected because of them.

That is deeply depressing.
posted by zarq at 1:35 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Seriously, why in the hell is anyone in our government consulting with the guy about anything, much less the friggin' White House?


There was some mention by a reporter a few days back that Stephen Miller was doing this speech. It's not a big leap to think that Miller knows this guy. My bet is that with the way this WH is being run Miller was given the job of looking after the speech and just did what he felt like. Bannon probably didn't give shit or was in on it and everyone else didn't care, was too busy to care or by the time people who would care had enough bandwidth to check out Millers work it was too late.

And even if Trump would care he is too stupid to really understand what the entirety of that speech meant or what it meant put into historical context. There were enough things in it that sounded good and Trump tough that he would be all happy to spew it out. I think these speech folk know exactly how to play Trump and get him to say this horrible shit by peppering it with shit he likes to say.
posted by Jalliah at 1:35 PM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Republicans are actual literal Nazis now, that's why.
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on July 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


Yeah, having just watched the doc about Hungarian anti-Semitic ultranationalists, I have to say that the average U.S. pepe-loving white nationalist (including the fucksticks working in the White House) has NO IDEA how much these dudes are not playing about this. Reddit keyboard warriors would crap their pants if they landed in one of these peoples' rallies/riots/street fights.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:35 PM on July 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


The things that we correctly regard as flaws are the positive benefits to the White House. they are not selected in spite of them - these men are selected because of them.

Trump was seriously unlucky to select his preferred candidate for National Security Adviser and have him turn out to be an unregistered foreign agent! Most people are not unregistered foreign agents! It's like Curb Your Enthusiasm or something
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:36 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Jonathan Capehart/WaPo: Trump’s white-nationalist dog whistles in Warsaw
“We write symphonies.” What on Earth does that have to do with anything? It’s bad enough Trump is doing the one thing his predecessors studiously avoided: engaging in the battle-of-civilizations talk that inflames anger and tensions with Muslims, particularly in the Middle East. In that one line, taken in context with everything else Trump said, what I heard was the loudest of dog whistles. A familiar boast that swells the chests of white nationalists everywhere. And Trump’s seeming non sequitur would have gone right over my head were it not for the past white-chauvinist musings of Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa).

[Steve King asks what non-white people ever did for civilization]

King said that during a live interview last July on MSNBC’s “All in with Chris Hayes” with its incredulous host and a visible “say what now?!” reaction from April Ryan, White House correspondent for the American Urban Radio Networks. It’s right out of the hymnal of white nationalism favored by folks who believe the world begins and ends with them.

This is the same crowd that brays about the superiority of “Western civilization” and its contributions in the history of the world conveniently ignores (or perhaps is just plain ignorant about) what we’ve adopted from Muslims and the Middle East. Those symphonies Trump says “We write” (ahem) would be real lame without the influence of the Middle East and Muslims. According to Salim al-Hassani, chairman of the Foundation for Science, Technology and Civilization and editor of “1001 Inventions,” which chronicles “the enduring legacy of Muslim civilization,” told CNN years ago that the lute, musical scales and the ancestor of the violin are all part of that legacy.
James Poniewozik points out that the symphonies line is straight out of Brietbart's "An Establishment Conservative's Guide to the Alt-Right." Western leaders have, for astonishingly good reasons, mostly tried really hard to avoid framing the war on terror as a conflict of civilizations. Because to do that is to completely accept the framing of the world of bin Laden and ISIS. We're just giving up on that restraint now.

This seems like a strange thing for McConnell to say at this point. Is it too much to hope that he will admit defeat and work with Democrats to improve Obamacare and try to win back some moderate support? Probably!

Yeah, probably. I think I agree with Brian Beutler that this is meant as a threat to his conservative wing:
McConnell has presented the choice in these terms before— to threaten conservatives. His aim is to characterize his legislation as the end of the line for hardliners like senators Ted Cruz and Mike Lee, beyond which Republicans will have to make their peace with the Affordable Care Act.

But in doing so, McConnell is giving the lie to the White House’s bogus line that Obamacare is “dead” and the country now faces an immediate choice between Trumpcare and a national single-payer system. House Speaker Paul Ryan likewise routinely describes Obamacare as collapsing, as if policymaking wasn’t a tool at his disposal to effect the functioning of government programs.

McConnell is reluctantly admitting is that Obamacare is fixable, and that the law’s ongoing challenges reflect policy choices that Republicans have made in an attempt to hobble it.
Unrelated, but I've been holding onto this link for a bit: Blue Cities Want to Make Their Own Rules. Red States Won’t Let Them.. Republicans say they love federalism and local control, but at the state level, they pass a lot of laws that keep cities from making their own rules about minimum wages, anti-discrimination, municipal broadband, etc...
posted by zachlipton at 1:41 PM on July 6, 2017 [64 favorites]


Axios is reporting that there will only be 6 people in the room when Putin and Trump meet: The 2 leaders, Tillerson, Lavrov, and 2 translators.


And how many recording devices?
posted by Rykey at 1:45 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah, Donald? They didn't play symphonies in the velvet rope cocaine room at Studio 54, so I doubt you've ever actually heard one.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:48 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Hill: In a speech at the Kennedy Space Center today, Vice President Mike Pence vowed to "put American boots on the face of Mars."

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on an extraterrestrial face — temporarily.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:49 PM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Oh, Nazis never know shit all about the high culture they are supposedly defending.
posted by Artw at 1:50 PM on July 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


(And of course when not "defending" culture they are all about persecuting the people that make it.)
posted by Artw at 1:51 PM on July 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


And then stealing it for their private collections after killing the legitimate owners.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:52 PM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


It's so much easier to put boots than to put people on Mars. Maybe Ivanka's company can design them. And by American, he meant "Made in China."
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:53 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


If someone decided tomorrow to do away with all private health insurance in the US, it would be a pretty big hit to my city

I would worry less about direct losses to the health insurance industry as a "job-killing" consequence of some sort of single-payer-ish scheme for the US.

Even if we went full single payer like OHIP, the new agency would need a lot of people doing a lot of the same things that insurance companies are doing now. They'd need lots of front-line employees dealing with providers and patients. They'd need db admins and other db workers. Etc, etc. One assumes that people with well-developed skill sets as front-line employees or medical db admins would be able to easily migrate to the new agency, or that the new agency would just contract out for those services to the original firms.

Likewise, there is still BCBS in Ontario, even with OHIP. They cover stuff that OHIP doesn't.

Thirdly, the most likely way for any single-payer-ish scheme in the US is Medicare, and there is already a strong private-insurance component in Medicare through "Medicare Advantage" plans, and existing firms would presumably be free to compete for clients there. They'd just have to offer something that seemed preferable to standard Medicare.

I would worry more about the people working for medical providers whose job it is to work with (or fight against) insurance companies to get paid, and even more for all those people in HR departments in every industry all over the US who are experts in dealing with employee/insurance-company relations. Especially those latter people look to be exceptionally fucked.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 2:01 PM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


From Trump's speech:
Americans, Poles, and the nations of Europe value individual freedom and sovereignty. We must work together to confront forces, whether they come from inside or out, from the South or the East, that threaten over time to undermine these values and to erase the bonds of culture, faith and tradition that make us who we are. If left unchecked, these forces will undermine our courage, sap our spirit, and weaken our will to defend ourselves and our societies.

But just as our adversaries and enemies of the past learned here in Poland, we know that these forces, too, are doomed to fail if we want them to fail. And we do, indeed, want them to fail. They are doomed not only because our alliance is strong, our countries are resilient, and our power is unmatched. Through all of that, you have to say everything is true. Our adversaries, however, are doomed because we will never forget who we are. And if we don't forget who are, we just can't be beaten. Americans will never forget. The nations of Europe will never forget. We are the fastest and the greatest community. There is nothing like our community of nations. The world has never known anything like our community of nations.

We write symphonies. We pursue innovation. We celebrate our ancient heroes, embrace our timeless traditions and customs, and always seek to explore and discover brand-new frontiers.

I'm not offended by an American president calling America the greatest country on Earth. They represent America. That is part of their job. I'm offended by an American president saying that European heritage is impossible to equal, in "the South or the East", because of its inherent cultural superiority. Because that's part of Hitler's job.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:03 PM on July 6, 2017 [100 favorites]


We write symphonies.

Pretty rich coming from the guy who proposed eliminating the NEA
posted by theodolite at 2:09 PM on July 6, 2017 [85 favorites]


We write symphonies. We pursue innovation. We celebrate our ancient heroes, embrace our timeless traditions and customs, and always seek to explore and discover brand-new frontiers.

Replace "symphonies" with a more generic term for "high musical art," and I think this is true for every significant/ large society in its time. Nation's don't flourish by trying to cling to the status quo, or trying to stay within their walls.

Oh wait, isn't that what Trump wants, to hide behind walls and maintain white, Christian male dominance?

Rome was great. Rome fell. Let out some of that (racist, xenophobic) hot air out of your inflated head, Donnie.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


We write symphonies.

theodolite: Pretty rich coming from the guy who proposed eliminating the NEA

Symphonies were paid for by wealthy patrons, not the rabble tossing coins into a bucket. And that's why the 0.01% need more tax breaks, because how else will we get modern symphonies?
posted by filthy light thief at 2:14 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm offended by an American president saying that European heritage is impossible to equal, in "the South or the East", because of its inherent cultural superiority. Because that's part of Hitler's job.

Man, that's some straight-up Lord of the Rings swarthy Easterlings and Southrons shit right there. Trump and his asshole buddies are deluded into thinking they're Gondor but everyone not drinking the Kool-Aid can see they are clearly Mordor.
posted by Justinian at 2:14 PM on July 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


Let us remember that just because Donald Trump is an ignorant and thoughtless man, with little attachment to ideology, he is still capable of being a devout white supremacist. Because, he is a devout narcissist. He worships himself. And, he is white.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:15 PM on July 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


We write symphonies. We pursue innovation. We celebrate our ancient heroes, embrace our timeless traditions and customs, and always seek to explore and discover brand-new frontiers.

"... which is why I'm defunding PBS"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:20 PM on July 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


You say he's going to Germany next?
posted by infini at 2:26 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


David Anderson, Balloon Juice: Degrading the public sphere (data edition)
Hannah Recht is one hell of a data visualizer and story teller on healthcare. She is assembling the bare county maps for Bloomberg and then she tweeted the following on Wednesday: [...]

She goes on to explain how and why the government map is fundamentally wrong. It is a combination of people not being familiar with the data and an intent to deceive through malice or laziness.

American public data resources are an incredible asset. They are being degraded as we speak. This is why everyone who could yank a file from November 9-January 20, 2017 yanked files. We feared that there would be massive data degradation. And the solution of archiving public resource files on non-government servers is a reasonable solution to the feared problem of forgetting the past. It does nothing for the ongoing fear that current files will not be collected, corrupted or hideously and deliberately mis-interpreted.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:30 PM on July 6, 2017 [41 favorites]


So the only other American in the room with Putin was recently awarded Russia's Order of Friendship?
posted by chris24 at 2:33 PM on July 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Gizmodo: How CNN Made Its Own Reporting Sound Like Blackmail
Because the passage appeared under Kaczynski’s byline, it fell to him to defend it on Twitter: “This line is being misinterpreted. It was intended only to mean we made no agreement [with the] man about his identity.”

That did not mean that Kaczynski was the author of the passage. In the course of editing the article, a CNN source told BuzzFeed’s Steven Perlberg, “someone [inserted the language] as a safeguard and it backfired.” And the legalese suggested, as Greenwald noticed, the involvement of network higher-ups: “The most offensive passage here — ‘CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change’ — sounds like classic lawyer language that executives or corporate lawyers would demand be included. It does not sound like something a typical journalist would write on their own.”

This theory was corroborated by five people with knowledge of the editorial process that led to publication. According to those people, the passage was drafted and proposed by Richard “Rick” Davis, a 37-year veteran of CNN who is the network’s Executive Vice President of News Standards and Practices. It was added at or very near to the final stage of editing—long after Kaczynski had concluded his reporting.
So basically a CNN executive screws this up and leaves their reporter to take the fall, in which the fall involves 50 harassing phone calls each to his wife and parents, along with death threats.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on July 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


Just go ahead and carve ACTUALLY, IT'S ABOUT ETHICS IN JOURNALISM on America's headstone
posted by theodolite at 2:40 PM on July 6, 2017 [41 favorites]


Rick Davis is an idiot and should be fired then.
posted by Artw at 2:44 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Richard “Rick” Davis, a 37-year veteran of CNN who is the network’s Executive Vice President of News Standards and Practices.

37 years, so he's been there since 1980, the year CNN was founded. He probably was given a lifetime contract by Ted Turner himself.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:53 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Dead fucking wood. Probably part of the reason we're in this mess to begin with.
posted by Artw at 2:55 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Star Negotiating with Putin means phone taps, power plays and sarcasm
Though he only recently learned English, Putin has been known to correct a translator, the officials said. As he speaks, he scans for reactions, looking for signs of division, and he considers it a sign of weakness if another world leader is cut off, or corrected, by a lower-ranking aide.

Putin also has a penchant for trolling his rivals. During a meeting with Kerry in 2016, Putin mocked him for carrying his own luggage off the plane, suggesting that it was a cash bribe to work out disagreements over Syria. In 2007, Putin brought his black Labrador to a meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who is scared of dogs.
[my bold

So what will he be bringing to his meeting with Trump? Perhaps a command of English superior to Trump's? A piss tape? A rare steak?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:59 PM on July 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Japan and EU reach trade deal (Free Trade Agreement)

(I don't know what to think of it yet but the headlines agree on the "it's a message to Trump/US" narrative:)

Reuters: EU, Japan seal free trade in signal to Trump

Japan and the European Union agreed a free trade pact on Thursday to create the world's biggest open economic area and signal resistance to what they see as U.S. President Donald Trump's protectionist turn.

Concluded in Brussels on the eve of meetings with Trump at a summit in Hamburg, the "political agreement" between two economies accounting for a third of global GDP is heavy with symbolism.


Japan Times: Japan, EU seal FTA after four years of talks
WaPo: Japan and Europe counter Trump with colossal trade deal
NYTimes: As E.U. and Japan Strengthen Trade Ties, U.S. Risks Losing Its Voice
Economist: A new trade deal between the EU and Japan
NPR: EU And Japan Strike Trade Deal, Call It 'Strong Message To The World'
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 3:00 PM on July 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


...the most likely way for any single-payer-ish scheme in the US is Medicare

This is such an easy and obvious solution. It makes me want to scream that it's not obvious to everyone.

All citizens qualify for medicare/medicaid. Assume there would be equitable solutions that address details like non-citizens put in place by the government made of up of competent adults it would take to pass such a thing to begin with. So basically, medicaid becomes the minimum standard of coverage in the US. Medicaid is generally well liked by it's participants but some people surely don't like it. It's also possible that we'd have to scale back services to afford it on that scale (or just to get it passed). So plenty of people would still want to buy extra coverage and employers could still offer supplemental plans as benefits but now it might be cheap enough that they wouldn't even need to contribute to it. Insurance companies just need to figure out what value they can bring that medicaid can't.

It's the easiest way to provide reliable coverage to everyone with the least disruption to existing systems.

The one thing that can't be gotten around is that the insurance industry generally needs to shrink. If health spending as a % of GDP goes down, which is part of the goal, then jobs will be lost in those industries. Some will get absorbed into an expanded medicaid bureaucracy and the health services industry would probably grow some will go into jobs there.

But the rest of the money we saved will go somewhere. The jobs lost will be replaced by growth elsewhere in the economy, exactly where in the economy would be the trillion-dollar question.
posted by VTX at 3:02 PM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Axios is reporting that there will only be 6 people in the room when Putin and Trump meet: The 2 leaders, Tillerson, Lavrov, and 2 translators.

NBC is confirming this. If McMasters isn't there to watch over the way he was at the White House meeting with Lavrov and Kislyak, then the fix is in. The only question left is the technical one of whether Trump is a Russian intelligence asset or an intelligence agent.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:07 PM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


the instant a person no longer has to stick with a shitty job they hate because it offers health insurance is the instant a million new entrepreneurs are born

(and that, you fucknuts in silicon valley, is *true* disruption)
posted by entropicamericana at 3:08 PM on July 6, 2017 [68 favorites]




I agree that Medicare for all would probably be the best solution for now. People could still buy supplemental insurance - my parents, for instance, had Medicare Advantage through Kaiser, and it worked beautifully. I have no complaints about the care they received. In fact, Kaiser was proactive when it came to things like making sure my dad had physical therapy to help with his Parkinson's, and he got a free consult with a pharmacist to check for medication cross-reactions. I live in an affluent county of California, where Medicare for all would work well because there are plenty of providers.

That leads me to - I think we could have universal health care and vastly expand the number of healthcare jobs, as long as we are willing to pay for it (more on that later). Increase the number of primary care physicians, nurse practitioners, and physician assistants. Offer incentives (student loan forgiveness? more money? paid housing?) for them to work in underserved, mostly rural areas. Vastly expand - as in, implement a kind of Marshall plan - the network of addiction treatment, mental health, and child welfare services, all of which are just screaming for more workers and services. If we could adequately fund just addiction treatment, mental health, and child services, we'd have jobs for days and days.

As for "who will pay for this" - the rich, and corporations. Maybe a new slogan can be "Taxes are patriotic!" "You get what you pay for!"
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:14 PM on July 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Republican lawmakers buy health insurance stocks as repeal effort moves forward

oh god can we just bring out the fucking guillotines already
posted by entropicamericana at 3:15 PM on July 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


So what will he be bringing to his meeting with Trump? Perhaps a command of English superior to Trump's? A piss tape? A rare steak?

A woman.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:16 PM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Even as a horribly naive 20-something in the 1990s, it was obvious to me that universal health care would mean that many people wouldn't feel tied to their jobs and might actually foster economic growth by following their entrepreneurial dreams if they don't have to worry about paying for health care for themselves, their families or their employees. The fact that the party which is supposed to support job creators doesn't see (or at least acknowledge) this speaks volumes.
posted by mollweide at 3:17 PM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


The fact that the party which is supposed to support job creators doesn't see (or at least acknowledge) this speaks volumes.

Job creators don't like their labour mobile.
posted by PenDevil at 3:18 PM on July 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Job creators don't like their labour mobile.

I get that, but I'd like the dissonance to be a bit more obvious to everyone.
posted by mollweide at 3:21 PM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Americans, Poles, and the nations of Europe value individual freedom and sovereignty. We must work together to confront forces, whether they come from inside or out, from the South or the East, that threaten over time to undermine these values and to erase the bonds of culture, faith and tradition that make us who we are.

Yeah, that Muslim ban is totally about national security and has nothing to do with bigotry.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:23 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Moscow Times Russian State TV Discovered Using Twitter Bots to Pose as Viewers
Channel One talk show “Vremya Pokazhet” launched its latest digital drive in June, promising viewers that their messages could be featured on screen if they tweeted during the show.

But an investigation by Russia's Vedomosti newspaper revealed many of the tweets which appeared during the show were produced by computer-run accounts referred to as bots.
Now THAT is fake news, Donald.

CNN Russia steps up spying efforts after election
Since the November election, US intelligence and law enforcement agencies have detected an increase in suspected Russian intelligence officers entering the US under the guise of other business, according to multiple current and former senior US intelligence officials. The Russians are believed to now have nearly 150 suspected intelligence operatives in the US, these sources said. Officials who spoke to CNN say the Russians are replenishing their ranks after the US in December expelled 35 Russian diplomats suspected of spying in retaliation for election-meddling.
"The concerning point with Russia is the volume of people that are coming to the US. They have a lot more intelligence officers in the US" compared to what they have in other countries, one of the former intelligence officials says.
Of course they do because our idiot President is too embarrassed by his squeaker of a win to admit that the Russians may have helped him. So now he has to stick with his narrative that the Russians are A-OK and Putin is swell.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:28 PM on July 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


Russian State TV Discovered Using Twitter Bots to Pose as Viewers

Any American TV entity that isn't already doing the same is missing an obvious opportunity. Come on, do you think Jimmy Fallon's "themed tweets" are written by anybody who's NOT on his writing staff?
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:36 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I honestly think that if an accounting rule were created to allow companies to treat employees as assets on a balance sheet instead of strictly an expense and liability (pension and promised insurance benefits) would go a long way towards changing attitudes where it matters.

Institutional knowledge has value, experience and stability have value, well functioning teams have value. But we can't put numbers to any of those things so all the folks who control the money spend all day talking about employees in terms of their affect on net expenses and long-term liabilities. They don't get on abstract ideas but on bottom line numbers so the only incentives that exist are to maximize productivity while minimizing expenses.
posted by VTX at 3:37 PM on July 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


So now that Robert Kraft's best bud is meeting with Putin, maybe he can get Kraft's Super Bowl ring back.
posted by adamg at 3:40 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


If we could adequately fund just addiction treatment, mental health, and child services, we'd have jobs for days and days.


And those are the kinds of jobs robots won't be able to do for a while, also. I know burned-out social workers who would love to go back if they were paid decently and had a sane workload. Also goes for teachers, nurses, and people in all kinds of caring careers. Between that and infrastructure, you could have record employment if you had the will and the leadership to make it happen.

But right now we've got whatever the hell this is.
posted by emjaybee at 3:42 PM on July 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


Fucking idiots. Why are the most passionately committed people in our society all so hell bent on destroying the future for everyone who isn't already rich? It's sickening and depressing.
posted by saulgoodman at 3:46 PM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's because the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity. Or so I've heard.
posted by Justinian at 3:47 PM on July 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


I know burned-out social workers who would love to go back if they were paid decently and had a sane workload. Also goes for teachers, nurses, and people in all kinds of caring careers. Between that and infrastructure, you could have record employment if you had the will and the leadership to make it happen.

Exactly! If we could implement a Works Progress Administration type program for 1) infrastructure and 2) the caring professions, we'd have jobs out the wazoo. Jobs jobs jobs everywhere you look! And if the workloads and salaries were decent, we could attract so many great people to the caring professions. There was nothing intrinsic about Factory Jerbs that made them "good" jobs, versus "bad" service jobs; just the pay and working conditions - and factory jobs were horrible before worker's rights and unionization.

We handwring about Our Children and The Opioid Crisis, but underfund the things that would help - schools, social services, mental health, and addiction treatment. There is so much potential in expanding all these fields. Jobs that can't be given to robots. We could have single-payer health care, self-driving cars, Rosie the Robot in every home - and still have enough jobs to go around.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:53 PM on July 6, 2017 [78 favorites]


Somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its s(low energy) thighs,
Many very smart people are saying it,
Believe me
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:53 PM on July 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


If we could implement a Works Progress Administration type program

Funnily enough, this was a proposal by one of the candidates in our last election. I think her name was... Schminton? Hinton? Something like that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:58 PM on July 6, 2017 [60 favorites]


Matthew Yglesias makes a good point: I know Trump is following Huntington but I don't understand a concept of "the west" that spans the US & Poland but excludes Mexico.

It's the same principal as "real Americans" excludes POC and anyone who lives in a city.

I just fast-forwarded through the Neil Cavuto show because when I was at the gym I thought I saw Megyn Kelly on his show. I could not imagine she had returned to FOX even as a guest. Turns out I saw Gerri Willis with short hair. Very similar looking especially from across a room.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:04 PM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


It's because the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity. Or so I've heard.

Relevant.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:05 PM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


WaPo: Attorneys general sue DeVos over delay of rule to protect students from predatory colleges
A group of 19 state attorneys general is suing Education Secretary Betsy DeVos for delaying an overhaul of rules to erase the federal student debt of borrowers defrauded by colleges...

The complaint, filed in U.S. District Court on Thursday, accuses the Education Department of violating federal law by halting updates to a regulation known as the borrower defense to repayment. The rule, which dates to the 1990s, wipes away federal loans for students whose colleges used illegal or deceptive tactics to get them to borrow money to attend. The Obama administration revised it last year to simplify the claims process and shift more of the cost of discharging loans onto schools...

In a separate but related case, Public Citizen and the Project on Predatory Student Lending also filed suit Thursday against DeVos for blocking the defense rule.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 4:10 PM on July 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


Politico What’s Worse: If Trump and Putin Get Along, Or If They Don’t?
Trump and Putin have much in common, too, beyond their obvious authoritarian bent. Both came to power without the support of a political party establishment. Both seem to understand capitalism[...]as “wheeling and dealing,” as “about finding and using loopholes in the law, or creating loopholes.” Both rely disproportionately on small inner circles of close advisers. Both use profanity to mobilize the masses. These similarities help to account for their mutual attraction.

But other parallels portend mutual enmity and may have already begun to drive them apart. [...]Trump and Putin both believe in [...] the philosophy of Trump’s mentor, lawyer Roy Cohn: “Everyone lies, smears, covers up protects their friends. The rules of the game don’t count as much as winning.” And Putin’s grade school teacher’s description of him seems to fit Trump, as well: “Volodya never forgives people who betray him or are mean to him.”

If Trump and Putin get along too well in Hamburg, that could come at the expense of American allies in Ukraine and Syria. If they don’t, and if each man blames the other for their split, their tendency to lash out at those who betray them could eventually lead to a dangerous confrontation.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on July 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Putin is a cold, calculating, and experienced manipulator. Trump is a giant rube who damn well knows he owes Putin his ass. So imagine what kind of belligerent moron Trump would have to be to come out of that meeting with the two not getting along. Imagine how much of an ass Trump would have to be that Putin would be like, "Fuck it, I can't keep this act up. Christ, what an asshole."

I'm reminded of all those Groo the Wanderer comics by Sergio Aragonés where Groo is literally too stupid to be reliably manipulated.

And yet it's 2017 and Trump's awfulness seems bottomless so who knows?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:23 PM on July 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Imagine how much of an ass Trump would have to be that Putin would be like, "Fuck it, I can't keep this act up. Christ, what an asshole."

I have a bleak sort of faith in his ability to be just that sort of ass.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:26 PM on July 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Fucking idiots. Why are the most passionately committed people in our society all so hell bent on destroying the future for everyone who isn't already rich? It's sickening and depressing.


It's because the best lack all conviction while the worst are full of passionate intensity. Or so I've heard.



Dunning-Kruger is a helluva drug.
posted by darkstar at 4:28 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


TPM Tillerson Considered Central Figure In ExxonMobil Investigation
Wayne Tracker” cannot be forced to testify under oath. He does not exist.

But the man who used the “Tracker” alias, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, can be questioned — and is increasingly expected to be — as New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman expands his sweeping probe into whether Tillerson’s former employer, ExxonMobil, misled investors about the impact of climate change.
The Hill Senators warn Trump against returning compounds to Russia
A bipartisan group of senators is urging President Trump to not return a pair of U.S. compounds seized under the Obama administration back to Russia.

Democratic Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.) and GOP Sens. Marco Rubio (Fla.) and Johnny Isakson (Ga.) outlined their request in a letter sent to Trump ahead of his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on July 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


Science keep me from replying to all these random public Facebook post idiots. Every Minnesotan housewife is now an Islamic scholar for some reason. Like,v you're going to rock into a thread with actual Muslims in it and define jihad for them, what in the fuck. Also apparently none of these assholes has visited an Amish community. A religious group who rejects assimilation, doesn't speak English and the women cover their heads have been in this country since before it was a country. Are we going to have to enact an #amishban now?

Fuck I'm so aggravated
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:33 PM on July 6, 2017 [56 favorites]


Spencer Ackerman: This Is Trump’s Plan to Team Up With Putin in Syria—and Leave Assad in Power: "This Is Trump’s Plan to Team Up With Putin in Syria—and Leave Assad in Power"
After a dizzying series of policy shifts on Syria, administration and congressional sources tell The Daily Beast that Team Trump is introducing the beginnings of a new strategy for Syria—one that, in the short term at least:

• leaves dictator Bashar al-Assad in power;

• acquiesces to the idea of “safe zones” proposed by Russia and its allies;

• leans on cooperation from Moscow, including the use of Russian troops to patrol parts of the country.

It’s the sort of plan that observers have long suspected would ultimately emerge as Trump’s approach—despite his pledge that Assad has “no role” in governing the Syrian people. Top Trump aides from Jared Kushner to former national security adviser Michael Flynn have pushed for closer coordination with Russia on Syria for months.
posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on July 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


That's probably a huge piece of what Putin hoped to gain from his election hacking.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:58 PM on July 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


But I'm not convinced there's even consensus in the DNC on what they want to represent/who they think they are.

I'm convinced the DNC's message is completely moot as they clearly intend to campaign like it's 1984 every time. Why are we not suing them for malpractice? Wai-wai-wait, hang on, you lost to Donald Fucking Trump?! What the shit, Poindexter? What did you do with $125 million dollars?! For the hundredth time, stop calling me already!
posted by petebest at 4:59 PM on July 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


“After this election, one of the things that helped me most, aside from long walks in the woods and the occasional glass of chardonnay, was once again going back to the familiar experience of losing myself in books,” she said during her speech at the American Library Association.

ME TOO, HILLARY, ME TOO. Except with hard liquor but whatever. Sob.

It's a puff piece but her reading list is a good one. Mary Oliver has lifted my spirits often, even in this darkest timeline.
posted by lydhre at 5:00 PM on July 6, 2017 [41 favorites]


I'm convinced the DNC's message is completely moot as they clearly intend to campaign like it's 1984 every time. Why are we not suing them for malpractice? Wai-wai-wait, hang on, you lost to Donald Fucking Trump?! What the shit, Poindexter? What did you do with $125 million dollars?! For the hundredth time, stop calling me already!

Democrats 2020: Medicare for all because "we're not fascists" just wasn't a strong enough draw.
posted by Talez at 5:03 PM on July 6, 2017 [39 favorites]


God, I really hate the fact that we all knew from the first sentence that the Western Civilization Uber Alles speech was 100% Stephen Miller. This is not a person whose diction and gross beliefs I want to be familiar with; it makes me feel like I need to power-wash my brain.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:19 PM on July 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


"Medicare for all" is basically what we have in Australia (it's even called Medicare) and it is insanely popular. Basically, the government decides how much it will reimburse for whatever treatment. If medical providers charge that amount (maybe a bit less?) they can claim the money themselves ("bulk bulling"). No patient billing, no bad debts, no cash that's subject to thefts. Otherwise, the patient pays what the provider charges and can claim the Medicare rebate back from the government. Private health insurance is mostly for people who want, e.g., to choose their own obstetrician, or to have a private room in hospital rather than a shared ward.

Medicine comes under a different heading: the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. The government approves a list of medication (pretty much everything that gets prescribed). Patients bring their prescriptions to private pharmacies and pay a fixed co-payment and the government reimburses the supplier (maybe via the pharmacy?). The co-payment is the same for medicine that would cost $20 or $2000. There are some limitations, typically new medicine and formulations, but they're not common; and private insurance will typically cover those if you have it.

People like their medical providers to charge the government rate so that they don't need to pay; that's another incentive for providers to limit themselves that way. The rate is regularly adjusted but lots of providers say it isn't high enough. I suspect the government is deliberately walking a line that gives most people access to bulk-billing providers while being as cheap as possible; that sounds like good politics to me. Anyway, that's the way it works here and it's both easy to implement and very visible to voters. You don't need to close any hospitals or whatever, you just need to work out rates for reimbursement and the patients themselves will drive the switch to bulk billing.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:23 PM on July 6, 2017 [53 favorites]


Democrats 2020: Medicare for all because "we're not fascists" just wasn't a strong enough draw.

TBF, "We're not pussy-grabbing incompetent lying scumbags" didn't poll all that well last time.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:35 PM on July 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Yeah, apparently avoiding a narcissistic, incompetent, idiotic, racist white nationalist serial rapist wasn't enough to motivate people. "SHE DIDNT EARN MY VOTE."
posted by Justinian at 5:40 PM on July 6, 2017 [51 favorites]


Ashley Feinberg, Wired: Nothing Bums Me Out Like Scott Walker's Instagram Feed
The mundanity is chilling, the repetitiveness dizzying, and all of it from a former presidential candidate who ostensibly employs a staff that should know better. But rather than ignore that which scares us, let's dig deeper and embrace the madness. So please, allow me to introduce you to the great Warhol of Wisconsin, a walking "who says white people don't have culture" gag, Governor Scott Walker—a man who went to Cold Stone Creamery and ordered a cup of vanilla ice cream with absolutely no toppings, please. Thank you. [...]

The most annoying and unremarkable parts of an experience, poorly packaged and presented as though it were some sort of gift. This is apparently how Scott Walker views the world. And thanks to Instagram, we can all get a taste of that dreary, milk-filled purgatory ourselves.
posted by tonycpsu at 5:46 PM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


I'm watching the BBC America newscast. As part of its coverage of Trump's trip to Poland and Russia, it noted that Trump is now an honorary Cossack. The BBC utterly failed to explain how that worked exactly nor who granted this great honour, dammit.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:56 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm watching the BBC America newscast. As part of its coverage of Trump's trip to Poland and Russia, it noted that Trump is now an honorary Cossack. The BBC utterly failed to explain how that worked exactly nor who granted this great honour, dammit.

It's QED. Now that the Bolsheviks are dead and buried the Cossacks are helping to get Ukraine, which they founded to keep it away from those dirty hippies, back to the Tsar Putin the Glorious. Trump said he could have Crimea.
posted by Talez at 6:03 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump is now an honorary Cossack

I'd pay good money to watch him try to do the dance.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:08 PM on July 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


I've always wondered if Wayne Tracker ever interacted with Carlos Danger.
posted by spitbull at 6:08 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've always wondered if Wayne Tracker ever interacted with Carlos Danger.

They play bridge with John Barron.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:10 PM on July 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Rachel Maddow is doing a piece about how her show was sent a forged document relating to the document that Reality Winner leaked to the Intercept. The clear implication she's making is that they believe someone (TRUMP PEOPLE) is deliberately trying to discredit the media by getting them to report false things.
posted by Justinian at 6:20 PM on July 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


it noted that Trump is now an honorary Cossack.

He's literally being handled like some incredibly over privileged child, treating foreign relations like stops on his guided adventures through Europe. They're treating him like a spoiled child because that's who he is and the same tricks work on him that would work on any such habitually entertained and doted over child of privilege. If he had any self awareness or dignity, he'd be offended.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:20 PM on July 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


So, I hit an intersection of medical care and voter id laws today that I hadn't even considered.

Let me explain. My trainer marriage happened in my teens. These things happen when Catholic girls get urges. I changed my name to his. As you did in those days. As the rush of hormones receeded, I realized the errors of my ways, and left Husband one, and changed my name back to my maiden name on things like driver's licenses. A number of years later, I met the man to whom I have been married for two decades. I didn't change my name until our son was born, and then I did, so that my name matched his.

In the time I've been raising said son, I've not been traveling much to Europe, and my passport expired. It's been sitting in a vault for 10 years, I never even thought about it, until I went to go renew my driver's license, and discovered that due to Texas Voter Id, my identity has been flagged at Homeland Defense, and they claim I'm using aliases, and thus I cannot renew my driver's license or my passport until I show up, in person, at a federal office, with my divorce papers from the teenage marriage in the 80s, my marriage license for my second marriage in the 90s, my original social security card from the 60s, a birth certificate, and the shaman that witnessed my birth, or some other pain in the ass document.

Voter ID laws totally fuck women who change their names when they marry. If I had kept my maiden name the whole time, I wouldn't be caught in American Brazil and could seriously investigate medical tourism possibilities and do something to fix the sjogren's related dental problems before it ends up killing me.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 6:21 PM on July 6, 2017 [100 favorites]


My wife didn't change her name when we got married. She has told me that this has caused her a lot of problems with registrations and such, and part of her wishes that she had changed her name.

In short, US laws totally fuck women.
posted by Quonab at 6:33 PM on July 6, 2017 [44 favorites]


I never even thought about it, until I went to go renew my driver's license, and discovered that due to Texas Voter Id, my identity has been flagged at Homeland Defense

The Sessions DOJ just switched positions on Texas' Voter ID law. Shocker, they think it's perfectly fine now, after the Obama DOJ fought for 4 years to overturn it and continued the case against the revised version.

In case it wasn't clear enough that Republicans main agenda is voter suppression.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 PM on July 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


There are three things Rick Perry knows about economics: Supply, Demand, and uh...uh...um...oops
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:41 PM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


I didn't change my name when I married, which was double the relief when I divorced. No problems with it whatsoever, anywhere along the line.

I'm going to go directly from my maiden name to a crone name.
posted by Sublimity at 6:42 PM on July 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


There are three things Rick Perry knows about economics: Supply, Demand, and uh...uh...um...oops
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:41 PM on July 6 [+] [!]


...

profit?
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:51 PM on July 6, 2017


Do the "everything is Econ 101" folks know that they teach more courses after that, in the Economics department?
posted by thelonius at 6:53 PM on July 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Think of the children. It literally played in (West) Peoria.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:57 PM on July 6, 2017


Democrats should move to the center by balancing a liberal member like Al Franken on a ticket with a known conservative like Ben Stein.

Franken/Stein 2020.

Hollywood would go for it.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:01 PM on July 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


“We write symphonies.” What on Earth does that have to do with anything? It’s bad enough Trump is doing the one thing his predecessors studiously avoided: engaging in the battle-of-civilizations talk that inflames anger and tensions with Muslims, particularly in the Middle East. In that one line, taken in context with everything else Trump said, what I heard was the loudest of dog whistles. A familiar boast that swells the chests of white nationalists everywhere. And Trump’s seeming non sequitur would have gone right over my head were it not for the past white-chauvinist musings of Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa).

Who the fuck is this "we"?

Freakishly talented individuals write symphonies, and those symphonies are worthless if they don't get performed and keep getting performed. Nowadays they get performed by outfits in which the string section is largely Chinese and Korean, and the choral section is made up of Africans. Fuck this guy.
posted by ocschwar at 7:04 PM on July 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


"Think of the children. It literally played in (West) Peoria."

DAAAAANG, now I'm super-mad I skipped the parade this year! But that is kind-of shocking, the parade is very kid-centric and it's all marching bands, realtors throwing candy, firetrucks, and local candidates. I've never seen a float to do with the presidency and I think it's weird and a little more, uh, message-y than this parade likes.

From further down the article: ". A Prisoner of War float with a shackled man in a cage upset some enough that it was banned for a couple of years, but returned this year. Opponents of abortion rights handed out little plastic fetuses in the past. A float last year showed a Hillary Clinton impersonator behind bars and in handcuffs."

The POW float is fucking crazy-train and my jaw dropped in shock the first time I saw it. The only reason it's still going is that the dude who does it (and sits in the bamboo cage) is a local character and has been doing POW activism since the 70s and like nobody can tell him "Uh, dude, this is kind-of ... yeah." It's a little offensive. It requires quite a bit of backstory to not be offended.

The fetus people got banned from the parade because parents were FURIOUS -- including pro-life Catholic parents, who do not take their children to a Fourth of July parade to see grisly dismembered fetus pictures up close and personal. I didn't see the Hillary float last year but I would have been fairly offended if I had -- I object fairly strongly to the parade becoming a place to comment on national politics rather than a community-centric, kid-friendly thing, and we won't go again if that's going to keep happening.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:06 PM on July 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


My wife didn't change her name when we got married. She has told me that this has caused her a lot of problems with registrations and such, and part of her wishes that she had changed her name.

Really? My wife held off on changing her name (I really didn't want her to anyway) because we were going through immigration drama and we didn't want a name change on top of all the other shit that could possibly screw up at USCIS. She hasn't ever had a problem with registrations and the like.
posted by Talez at 7:08 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I mean, that's what she has told me. I guess she could be lying. I didn't interrogate her on it. It's not a subject I ever brought up, she just talked about her frustrations. I don't feel like I need to bring her to Metafilter to defend herself. I guess you live in a world where no one ever questions someone who doesn't have the same name as her husband whether she is actually married to him? That is not the world we live in.
posted by Quonab at 7:15 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I guess I should clarify, when I mean registrations, I mean for the local soccer league or what not.
posted by Quonab at 7:18 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe it's a cultural thing? OKC is probably a bit more eyebrow raised at spouses having different last names in general. I'm just rather curious whether it affects government stuff or whether it's just other stuff.
posted by Talez at 7:19 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ah yeah, then definitely just a culture difference. Our two places of residence over the last couple of years are CA and MA so they're probably used to it.
posted by Talez at 7:20 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


That being said, I have been called Mr [wife's last name here] on more than one occasion picking up stuff like prescriptions on her behalf. I thought it was kind of funny at the time.
posted by Talez at 7:22 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I guess she should have married someone from CA or MA.
posted by Quonab at 7:23 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sorry I didn't mean to imply your wife did anything wrong. I just find the differences interesting.
posted by Talez at 7:27 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I lived in OKC. I used my father's last name and had zero issues. I was two years old and it was 1969. Oklahoma has excellent texmex. I never lived in MA or CA, but I did visit both places. Again zero issues but I didn't try to register for anything and didn't order any texmex. Just adding a few data points in case it helps.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:33 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


What it felt like was that you were saying that my wife's experiences were not valid. That's pretty different from saying that she did something wrong. She feels that maybe not changing her name was the wrong thing to do. I don't feel that, and I have never told her that. It is society and the laws she has to face that are telling her that. You seem to be saying that the obstacles that she has faced are not real, because you haven't experienced them.
posted by Quonab at 7:36 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think a big part of the discrepancy is that my wife is an immigrant.
posted by Quonab at 7:37 PM on July 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


No I get it. I came in with some really shitty phrasing and it was really accusatory in retrospect coming into the conversation and just plain bad form on my part.

But yeah, immigrant here as well. High-five to your wife for being an import too.
posted by Talez at 7:42 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Justinian: "Man, that's some straight-up Lord of the Rings swarthy Easterlings and Southrons shit right there. Trump and his asshole buddies are deluded into thinking they're Gondor but everyone not drinking the Kool-Aid can see they are clearly Mordor."

I am happy to concede that there are aspects of Tolkien's work that are problematic, but I would kindly request you do not compare him to Donald Trump.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:44 PM on July 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Scott Lemieux, The Week: Liberals' single-payer hubris
Would TrumpCare inevitably lead to universal health care?

Bernie Sanders doesn't seem convinced. The Vermont senator recently said his top priority on health care is stopping Republicans' Better Care Reconciliation Act: "We are focusing all of our energy on trying to defeat this terrible piece of legislation." He has also come out in favor of improvements to the Affordable Care Act as an interim step. Does this represent a change in policy on the part of the long-time advocate of single-payer health care? Not at all — he still plans to introduce a Medicare-for-all bill later this year. And his analysis of the situation is perfectly coherent. Passing TrumpCare would make getting a universal, mostly or entirely public health care system harder, not easier.

In an otherwise excellent recent piece in The New Republic, Brian Beutler takes the opposite tack. He applauds Sanders and the left wing of the Democratic Party for its "selfless" defense of the Affordable Care Act as it faces devastating attacks from House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. To Beutler, the left is making a sacrifice, defending people facing the loss of insurance now even though "the enactment of TrumpCare would shorten the way to single payer." But I don't think this is quite right. Rather, the left is actually acting in both its short and long-term interests in defending the ACA.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:05 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I am happy to concede that there are aspects of Tolkien's work that are problematic, but I would kindly request you do not compare him to Donald Trump.

Case in point, Samwise's sympathetic musings on a dead Southron:

"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would really rather have stayed there in peace."

Samwise Trump's quote would have been more along the lines of:

"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he loved watching the losers get crushed like dogs. He wished he could see the dumb dead face of the bad hombre, that he could order a drone strike on his family, that he could ban Southrons from the Shire until we could figure out what was going on. Sam actually won the popular vote, you know."
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:16 PM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Let it be said again. The people advocating that Trumpcare would lead to single payer are the people least likely to lose health care if Trumpcare passes. They're ignoring the immediate impact.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:17 PM on July 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** Kobach commission:
-- Experts say the data being gathered basically can't be used for anything legit.
-- HuffPo: State resistance to data request is a pretty broad spectrum from zero assistance to everything but SSNs.
-- TX gov Greg Abbott, of all people, says data request should be refused.
** NV Senate (2018) -- Rep. Jacky Rosen has formally announced she's running for the Dem nomination for Heller's seat. She has the backing of the still powerful Harry Reid organization, and has been endorsed by Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto and the DSCC. Rosen is only a freshman rep, but is considered to be a pretty good get to try and take out Heller.

** 2018 House:
-- NYT: Dem Party is aggressively recruiting veterans as candidates for House races. They've got about 20 so far.
-- Potential candidate in IN-09 is Tod Curtis. You might remember him from this thread last year.
** Odds & ends:
-- Pew poll finds Americans trust Merkel over Trump 56-46 "to do the right thing regarding world affairs."
--NPR poll finds 25% think Trump has done something illegal vis a vis Russia, another 29% think something unethical, but not illegal.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:18 PM on July 6, 2017 [30 favorites]


I'm starting to feel a bit optimistic about Trumpcare not happening. GOP Senators are saying a vote is "several weeks" off, when their whole scheme was slamming it through before people could complain. Lee is claiming he won't vote for anything that doesn't have the Cruz amendment, which has been strongly opposed by Collins and Heller. Both Collins and Murkowski came back from the Fourth saying everyone they met told them to vote against it. McConnell is talking again about a mini-fix with some Dem votes. Cruz is pushing for full repeal, which is a non-starter for most of the caucus. Moran is at a town hall in a county that voted for him 90-10 and saying he has problems with it.

Yes, these guys are liars. Yes, they can be bought, and you can't trust the "moderate" wing for anything. But I'm really starting to get the vibe McConnell can't quite thread the needle on this one.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:27 PM on July 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


Rosen is only a freshman rep, but is considered to be a pretty good get to try and take out Heller.

At this point I have a feeling Nevada would be ready to elect a trained baboon over Heller.
posted by Talez at 8:28 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Eh, I hear ya, but incumbency is a powerful thing.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:32 PM on July 6, 2017


The symphonies thing has been bugging me ever since I read about it this afternoon. Don't get me wrong, some of my favorite works of music are symphonies, but those join a number of works from non-Western musical genres that I consider to be equally moving, powerful and important. "We write symphonies." Why would you even say that if you weren't implying that symphonies were somehow superior to works from, say, India or Africa? We don't play that devil music, he's saying, we're culturally superior. I guess the point has been driven home more elegantly on this thread than I'm currently managing to do, but it is indeed a dog whistle, and it's infuriating.
posted by vverse23 at 9:19 PM on July 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


At a time when uncertainty about Trump's fitness to lead is at an all-time high, America turns its eyes to the man all but certain to replace him should he be removed, hoping for a sign that whether we agree with his policies or not, at least the Vice President is an adult with an ability to make sound judgements that take the available evidence into account especially with so many critical issues at play. Mike Pence is on the case.
posted by scalefree at 9:25 PM on July 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


The symphonies thing has been bugging me ever since I read about it this afternoon.
Me too. I was composing something about how symphonies are basically the most specialised and extreme form of European music and they've never been representative of what most Europeans (let alone Americans) actually listen to and engage with, but what's the point? Why let his demented babbling press my buttons?

Incidentally, does Trump actually listen to music? Apart from the stuff played in elevators, or when he's attending some event. Like, has he ever gone to a concert for pleasure? Does he play music when he's driving being driven somewhere? Does he listen to music when shaving or taking a shower? Somehow it seems hard to imagine, but surely he must?
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:37 PM on July 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


I hate agreeing with a Lawyers, Guns, and Money guy, but that piece by Lemieux is all right. My main problem is that I haven't seen many people seriously argue that Trumpcare's passage would make it easier to pass universal single-payer healthcare. Lemieux cites a pair of opinion pieces by reliable centrists, one of which only makes the case in passing, and the other of which treats it as an unintended consequence of Republican hubris, rather than as a goal which single-payer advocates should pursue.

In short, I haven't seen anyone but the occasional Twitter nobody support Trumpcare because they expect it to speed the nation's progress to real universal healthcare.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:40 PM on July 6, 2017


Yeah, maybe some reporter will ask him to name his favorite symphony. "There's so many. I like them all. I like the great ones. You know the great ones? I listen to those very often."
posted by perhapses at 9:42 PM on July 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


My main problem is that I haven't seen many people seriously argue that Trumpcare's passage would make it easier to pass universal single-payer healthcare.

Rather, I haven't seen many people seriously argue that supporters of single-payer universal healthcare should support Trumpcare because Trumpcare's passage would make it easier to pass the actually good policy. Not sure where I'm going with this, really. It's late.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 9:48 PM on July 6, 2017


Does he play music when he's driving being driven somewhere? Does he listen to music when shaving or taking a shower? Somehow it seems hard to imagine, but surely he must?

Pure speculation here, but I imagine that consonant, pleasant classical music is just about the only music his toddler mind can tolerate; plus, given his upbringing, it's probably the only kind of music he has been bred and conditioned to appreciate. Anything else is clutter at best, intolerable noise at worst.

In stark contrast, let's revisit, with the appropriate amount of nostalgia, President Obama's 2015 mixtape.
posted by vverse23 at 10:09 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's obvious -- he likes the Great Symphony, i.e. Schubert's 9th.
posted by phliar at 10:17 PM on July 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Rachel Maddow is doing a piece about how her show was sent a forged document relating to the document that Reality Winner leaked to the Intercept. The clear implication she's making is that they believe someone (TRUMP PEOPLE) is deliberately trying to discredit the media by getting them to report false things.

Not just Trump people in general, but she is proposing that based on some metadata in the document her team received, which incorporated pixel-for-pixel cut-and-pasted regions from the Reality Winner document as scanned by The Intercept, it was created after Winner was arrested but before The Intercept published. The implication being, I think, that it was specifically made by someone to whom a copy of The Intercept's scan had been submitted for comment.

Using fragments of a genuine document that concerns details of Russia's voting-system hacking shows a certain consciousness of guilt.

In any case, IIRC she said that every current or former NSA official they were able to get to take a look at it said it looked fake, and that it contained the name of a specific American citizen that the MSNBC team did not believe would actually appear un-redacted in a genuine leaked document, but a name which would have made for a particularly juicy story to publish if it were a real document.

She also suggested that the singly-sourced CNN story which was retracted and resulted in three CNN employees resigning and a couple of other stories—VICE News stories I think?—that were also retracted, are instances of similar misinformation attempts.
posted by XMLicious at 10:24 PM on July 6, 2017 [52 favorites]


Read this article and weep. It's from 1994. What might our civic life be like today if Mitch McConnell had found a different line of work? (Emphasis mine.)

WASHINGTON, Sept. 30— A bill to overhaul the way election campaigns for Congress are financed died today, joining universal health insurance and other measures in the graveyard where so much legislation has been buried in the last days of this Congress.

The campaign finance bill was taken off the agenda after the Senate failed one last time to end a Republican filibuster. The vote was 52 to 46, eight shy of the 60 votes needed to invoke cloture and break the impasse.

... At a news conference, Senator Mitch McConnell, the Kentucky Republican who led the filibuster, responded to ... criticism, saying, "I make no apologies for killing this turkey of a bill."

posted by Bella Donna at 10:27 PM on July 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, it looks like the self-generated administrations fake news will soon be coming directly from the State Department.

State Department concocting “fake” intellectual property “Twitter feud”
“Our public diplomacy office is still settling on a hashtag,”


I'm sure some bright sparks around here might be able to help with that.
posted by michswiss at 10:30 PM on July 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


The symphonies thing has been bugging me ever since I read about it this afternoon.

it bugs me, too - who the hell writes symphonies these days and who the hell is performing them? - as far as composing is concerned, it's a dead artform with only dead people getting their work performed

all the cool kids are doing electric music these days - and many of them are from the south and the east ...
posted by pyramid termite at 10:59 PM on July 6, 2017


Regarding that photo of Pence placing his hand on a metal object clearly labeled "Critical Space Hardware - 'Do Not Touch'"

To be fair, Pence is no rocket scientist.
posted by carmicha at 11:10 PM on July 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


who the hell writes symphonies these days and who the hell is performing them?

For real? People are still writing symphonies (though mostly without "symphony" in the title), and even putting the electronics in them.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:14 PM on July 6, 2017 [29 favorites]


In Trump's dictator buddies news: Philippines police push for Muslim ID cards as counter-terrorism measure
posted by XMLicious at 12:12 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Does he play music when he's driving being driven somewhere? Does he listen to music when shaving or taking a shower? Somehow it seems hard to imagine, but surely he must?

Ha, no. I'd bet he never listens to music at all, except whatever music plays at the beginning or end of the garbage he watches on tv. Elevator music. Kind of stirring rah-rah fist in the air white guy stuff for rallies.

I'm slightly obsessed with this kind of Trumspeculation: does he like anything? Granted I'm not a fan, so I don't read anything really that's sympathetic to him, but all I can tell he likes is: sex, golf. Gold coloured things. Unchallenging, meat and carb meals. Displays of dominance. His own voice. He is a man who seems to derive no joy whatsoever from the world around him. We never see him behaving with tenderness or affection to anyone. He has no preferences beyond bigger and more expensive. He's the guy in Chocolat whose favourite is someone else's favourite, that he can take.
posted by glitter at 12:20 AM on July 7, 2017 [25 favorites]




Young, it should be noted, does not seem to like him back.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:48 AM on July 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Trump likes classic rock, particularly Neil Young.

Translation: Neil Young was the last name Trump heard on the radio when someone asked him what music he liked
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:50 AM on July 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


Since the November election, US intelligence and law enforcement agencies have detected an increase in suspected Russian intelligence officers entering the US under the guise of other business

It appears that Putin is creating the Nazi enemy that he needs.
posted by dmh at 2:23 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Brief N. Klein interview in The Guardian: don't underestimate the success of the "shlock doctrine".
posted by progosk at 3:00 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think the Republicans are TRYING to use the "schlock doctrine" to succeed in spite of Trump's extreme incompetence... but whether they do succeed is doubtful because it depends on their own competence, and that is more than a little bit doubtful. Some parts of the right-wing/.01%er agenda is working out, but only because Trump has accidentally put some competent people in positions of power. I still believe it could've been even worse by a lot with a more competent Republican President.

suspected Russian intelligence officers entering the US under the guise of other business

Also remember, Russia isn't the Commies anymore. Its interests are almost all Business.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:40 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've been stunned how many people I've talked to who don't seem to know Russia isn't communist anymore. The brand association effect is so strong, lots of people seem to still identify Russia as communist. That seems to be part of what's driving the skepticism about Trump and other Republicans being in bed with them. It's scary how effective that brand association effect can be at bypassing critical thought.
posted by saulgoodman at 4:28 AM on July 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


Which is mind blowing to me because it was A HUGE AMERICAN DICK STROKING DEAL that we "won" the Cold War in the 80s. If you were alive then, how can you not remember this? It's part of the whole Reagan popularity mystique--he was the big strong daddy who beat those evil commies and proved that god, capitalism and the American way were the best forever.
posted by soren_lorensen at 4:47 AM on July 7, 2017 [30 favorites]


scalefree: Mike Pence is on the case.

To be fair, the use of quotation marks is egregious. Perhaps he's doing it out of spite.
posted by pjenks at 5:03 AM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


A quick update on state budgets:

Illinois House voted to override Gov. Rauner's veto of the budget bill, which includes tax increases (essentially reverting back to 2015 rates). As in Kansas, even some Republicans voted in favor of the override, with Rep. David Harris saying "There is no joy here. But how long can we let this go on?"

NJ and ME reached budget deals earlier this week.

It’s not just New Jersey and Illinois — many states are facing budget trouble
[Emma Brown and Sandhya Somashekhar; WaPo]

Another state to watch is Alaska, which may not reach a budget deal before the legislative session ends on July 15.

Massachusetts legislators say they've reached a deal, but won't release any details. They could vote on the budget bill today.

Connecticut is having trouble reaching a deal. GOP wants to solve the budget shortfall by cutting public employee benefits.

Pennsylvania's budget is overdue. They're considering expanding private alcohol sales, applying the sales tax to sales of services, and taxing certain gambling/gaming activities.

Wisconsin is also in a budget dispute. GOP wants to expand freeways around Milwaukee, Walker wants to borrow the money and/or rely on (unrealistic) federal grants (I guess he has no problem our coastal liberal elite money) - this plan was "met with skepticism from Republicans and indignation from Democrats."
posted by melissasaurus at 5:21 AM on July 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


Oh yeah, Walker, I almost forgot about him. What's he up to these days?
posted by Melismata at 5:30 AM on July 7, 2017


And Trumpcare ending Medicaid will devastate state budgets over time, as states will have to make up for the ever decreasing federal share of costs.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:31 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


More likely they just toss everyone off Medicaid.
posted by Justinian at 5:33 AM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


So we have video of Trump & Putin shaking hands. It's a little weird.
posted by scalefree at 5:38 AM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Pro-analysis: a combined tinyhand-shake and underpat ('any weapons in that sleeve??'), sealed with an after-duster. Classic.
posted by Namlit at 5:42 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Incidentally, does Trump actually listen to music?

There's video of him driving around with Melania and Barron listening to Taylor Swift. I assume one of them picked it; he's obviously a big Slipknot fan.

Would not be surprised if he were a for-real juggalo.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:46 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'd rather not know what music Trump likes. It's bad enough knowing that Ted Cruz's favorite movie is The Princess Bride.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:48 AM on July 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


brand association effect is so strong
aka lots of people are uneducated, nearly illiterate, uninformed.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:51 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just want the lead article in the NYT to be headlined "No, WE write symphonies," then a big picture of a bunch of angry composers, then two full pages of the policies they support.
posted by prefpara at 5:52 AM on July 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Oh yeah, Walker, I almost forgot about him. What's he up to these days?

Brown bagging ham & cheese, mostly.
posted by dis_integration at 5:59 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's bad enough knowing that Ted Cruz's favorite movie is The Princess Bride.

The irony if some extremely poor person came up to him with: "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. Your Medicaid cuts killed my father. Prepare to die."
posted by Talez at 6:01 AM on July 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


It's bad enough knowing that Ted Cruz's favorite movie is The Princess Bride.

Welp, time to go shower five or six times.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:02 AM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


So we have video of Trump & Putin shaking hands. It's a little weird.

How interesting that Trump for once doesn't do the aggro log-sawing battle with his puppetmaster. But is he, like, groping Putin there a couple of times? Like fondling his arm and rubbing his back?

Excuse me now while I go drill a hole in my skull and pour Janitor in a Drum onto my brain.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:04 AM on July 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Interesting thread over on Democratic Underground. The OP is in Hamburg, the discussion is about the G20 demonstrations :
I am in Hamburg - Ask me anything....
posted by valetta at 6:09 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Donald Trump: Putin Fondler
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:11 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'd rather not know what music Trump likes. It's bad enough knowing that Ted Cruz's favorite movie is The Princess Bride.

It's really really easy to dehumanize someone you loathe in your own mind, so a big part of me is hesitating at saying this, but honestly I'd be surprised to learn that the president* really cares all that much for music. You have to have some kind of internal life to really love art, to have a favorite that really speaks to you, and he doesn't to me bear the marks of someone who has much of that.

Don't get me wrong, it's clear that dude has emotions, but I don't see him as doing much more than appreciating art. Listening to a song and thinking "I like that" or "I don't like that", not listening to a song and thinking holy shit, that is the sound my soul makes. I guarantee his soul makes a sound, but I'd bet my house that he doesn't have a goddamn clue what it is, because to know that, you'd have to listen.

In short, if tomorrow he said that Tom Waits is "really great, like tremendous, did you hear the one about not wanting to grow up, it's fabulous, I don't think a lot of people know about that one", I can't imagine it tarnishing my love for Bone Machine one whit.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:11 AM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


He seems to be a big fan of Smash Mouth.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:15 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile your president reports in from the G20:

@realDonaldTrump
Everyone here is talking about why John Podesta refused to give the DNC server to the FBI and the CIA. Disgraceful!
posted by valetta at 6:21 AM on July 7, 2017


I have a facebook acquaintance who only really likes music if it has been commercially successful. That's sort of how I imagine Trump would decide what music he likes, if he likes music.
posted by drezdn at 6:22 AM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


A quick update on state budgets:

It seems weird that no one is pointing out that under classical economics, if the economy is doing well, these states shouldn't be having budget troubles.
posted by drezdn at 6:24 AM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Everyone here is talking about why John Podesta refused to give the DNC server to the FBI and the CIA. Disgraceful!


So no one is engaging with Teabag there, and he's the petulant kid in the corner twiddling his thumbs on his smartphone between runs at the buffet.
posted by rc3spencer at 6:26 AM on July 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


@BradJaffy replies:
—Podesta hack ≠ DNC hack; those are 2 separate hacks
—Podesta didn't run the DNC
—Not CIA
—Unlikely anyone at the G-20 is talking about this
It's amazing how much idiocy you can get in 140 characters.
posted by pjenks at 6:30 AM on July 7, 2017 [77 favorites]


It seems weird that no one is pointing out that under classical economics, if the economy is doing well, these states shouldn't be having budget troubles.

The economic recovery only really happened for rich people holding stocks, and in some states, real estate assets. State budgets largely rely on broad success by working and middle class people paying income and sales taxes. It's not the depths of 2008-09 for most people, but it never got back to "doing well" either. That and some of the states with Republicans in control decided that cutting taxes was more important than roads or schools or pension payments. Even if the economy is booming, the Laffer curve was always complete bullshit.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:31 AM on July 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


The sea levels are rising, North Korea is developing intercontinental nuclear missiles... clearly all the world leaders are talking about the email server of the American political party that lost the presidential election. It Just Makes Sense! 🤔😂🤔
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:37 AM on July 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


My theory is that the "Everyone" he refers to here is Rudy Giuliani. I can't think of anyone else at the G20 summit who knows or cares about Podesta (who of course had nothing to do with the DNC computers and was only marginally involved because he also was hacked.) We know Giuliani has that fake cyber security company he is probably flogging so maybe he brought up Podesta's name in passing.

Or maybe the "everyone's talking" refers to the voices in Trump's head.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:37 AM on July 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


I wouldn't be at all surprised that some of the other G20 leaders are talking to him about what a bullshit frameup job the witch hunt is, because they know damn well that if you rub his belly, he'll roll right over and be your bestest friend.
posted by Etrigan at 6:44 AM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ben Wittes: I will be very interested to learn whether the true lesson of this @maddow story is that the Intercept has, as I predicted, been penetrated.
posted by diogenes at 6:46 AM on July 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


What a wonderful media landscape we live in. I wanted to look for footage of Merina circumcision rituals from Madagascar, as that's what I'm reading about, but a YT search for "merina ritual" brought up this batshitcrazy list of videos about how Hillary Clinton, John Podesta, Marina Abramovichh, and perhaps Lady Gaga (I can't bring myself to look) are all involved in Satanic Pedophilic Spirit Cooking practices.
posted by stonepharisee at 6:48 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Is it still "penetrated" if they were working with Russian intelligence front groups the entire time?
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:49 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


I wouldn't be at all surprised that some of the other G20 leaders are talking to him about what a bullshit frameup job the witch hunt is, because they know damn well that if you rub his belly, he'll roll right over and be your bestest friend.

Or he brought it up the whole issue up in conversation and they did that thing where someone brings up something uncomfortable and you go 'oh yes, that's horrible/bad/unbelievable, that must be hard or you just repeat what they say and sorta nod' in order to just shut the person up so you can move onto another topic or bide time until you can diplomatically make your escape.
posted by Jalliah at 6:49 AM on July 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


> I wouldn't be at all surprised that some of the other G20 leaders are talking to him about what a bullshit frameup job the witch hunt is, because they know damn well that if you rub his belly, he'll roll right over and be your bestest friend.

God, I hope not. People enabling Trump in order to further their own interests is why we're in this mess in the first place.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:50 AM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


I have a facebook acquaintance who only really likes music if it has been commercially successful

"I was into these guys after they sold out"
posted by thelonius at 6:51 AM on July 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


Is it still "penetrated" if they were working with Russian intelligence front groups the entire time?

Yeah, they do have an ongoing habit of "accidentally" furthering Russia's interests.
posted by diogenes at 6:57 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


🎵🎶 Everybody's talking at me
I don't hear a word they're saying
Only her emails in my mind...

People stopping, staring
I can't see their faces
Only Podesta in their eyes... 🎶🎵
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:57 AM on July 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


But the song that touches him the most? "MacArthur Park," especially the original version talk-sung by actor Richard Harris. "It's a long song, like seven minutes long. And a lot of the words don't make a lot of sense: 'MacArthur's Park is melting in the dark.' What the devil is he talking about? It has three different parts and part two — 'I will drink the wine while it is warm and never let you catch me looking at the sun' — is just beautiful music. Again, the words don't make a lot of sense."

This proves all of my suspicions. Ben Carson is actually a space alien.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:59 AM on July 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump/Pence 2020: Someone Left The Cake Out In The Rain
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:01 AM on July 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


"Everybody's talking 'bout his white rants, his white rants, he's got his white rants on. "

Although:

"Everybody's talking at me
I don't hear a word they're saying
Only the echoes of my mind"
posted by notyou at 7:01 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Frank Zappa wrote symphonies. He also wrote songs about dental floss, foot odor, potato-headed mutates in nun suits, and the Illinois Enema Bandit.

In conclusion, Zappa was a better representation of modern Western Civilization than your average Dead European Classical Composer, as well as a land of contrasts.
posted by delfin at 7:01 AM on July 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


Goddamit East Manitoba.
posted by notyou at 7:02 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


MetaFilter: Again, the words don't make a lot of sense.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:05 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm the urban development spaceman, baby; I've got speed

ok i'll stop now
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:05 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Beethoven is someone who is being recognized more and more.

True fact: the Ode to Joy from the 9th symphony was used as the basis for the racist apartheid-endorsing national anthem of Rhodesia.
posted by spitbull at 7:08 AM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Also I have actually written a symphony.
posted by spitbull at 7:09 AM on July 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


True fact: the Ode to Joy from the 9th symphony was used as the basis for the racist apartheid-endorsing national anthem of Rhodesia

It's also the European Union anthem.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:11 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


delfin: Zappa was a better representation of modern Western Civilization than your average Dead European Classical Composer

On the other hand, Mozart liked to write about ass-kissing, so there's that. Plenty of that going on in modern Western Civilization these days, I'd say.
posted by Too-Ticky at 7:13 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's also the European Union anthem.

It's also Kaworu's descent into Terminal Dogma.
posted by Talez at 7:14 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


I didn't say it was a good symphony.

Great book on this subject: Christopher Small's Musicking.
posted by spitbull at 7:16 AM on July 7, 2017


I sincerely urge a world leader to grab Trump, tell him how honored they are to meet him, and tell him how much they look forward to working with him to fix the CO2 emissions crisis, and again how honored they are to meet someone who won the election so strongly when the media said he couldn't, and also remember high CO2 emissions are a crisis

Then tell him you read all his tweets
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:17 AM on July 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


I just had an argument with an asshole music journalist (this happens when you're a music professor who dislikes classical music) last week on the theme of Beethoven: soundtrack of patriarchal colonialist white supremacy or just great music? We parted on bad terms.
posted by spitbull at 7:18 AM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Then tell him you read all his tweets

And now I'm wondering how many Russians are assigned to read, analyze, discuss and weaponize Trump's tweets everyday. Yipes.
posted by puddledork at 7:23 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


job creator!
posted by entropicamericana at 7:25 AM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm glad there are cameras at the G20. The Trump administration seems pretty forgetful about meeting Russians.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:26 AM on July 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


the Laffer curve was always complete bullshit.

Anyone? Anyone? Anyone know what this is?
posted by Melismata at 7:34 AM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ask Rick Perry.
posted by Artw at 7:38 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


As an abstract, as a curve, it exists. But our taxes are not high enough for it to apply.

You may as well lecture in Somalia about the health effects of obesity - they exist, but aren't the pressing concern in this time and place.
posted by idiopath at 7:41 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Anyone? Anyone? Anyone know what this is?

It's the idea that cutting taxes will grow the economy and therefore increase revenue, basically. Laffer drew it on a napkin at dinner once, and so it became policy in the 80's.
posted by thelonius at 7:41 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Sorry for not being clear I was just quoting a Ben Stein movie
posted by Melismata at 7:44 AM on July 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


Laffer drew it on a napkin at dinner once, and so it became policy in the 80's.

It's how things were done. One time Reagan wiped mustard off his shirt and funded Nicaraguan militants
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:47 AM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


There are three things Rick Perry knows about economics: The Laffer Curve, Efficient Markets, and uh...uh...um...oops
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:49 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


There are three things Rick Perry knows about economics: The Laffer Curve, Efficient Markets, and uh...uh...um...oops

Oh come on. Rick Perry thinks a laffer curve is the circle of people that were standing around him laughing their asses off at his economic mansplaining.
posted by Talez at 7:54 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]




It's bad enough knowing that Ted Cruz's favorite movie is The Princess Bride.

Inconceivable!
posted by zarq at 8:14 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]



Sorry for not being clear I was just quoting a Ben Stein movie

Referring to Ferris Bueller's Day Off as "a Ben Stein movie" is kind of like calling Trump "a president." Technically true, but...
posted by Emera Gratia at 8:15 AM on July 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


Laffer drew it on a napkin at dinner once, and so it became policy in the 80's.

It's how things were done. One time Reagan wiped mustard off his shirt and funded Nicaraguan militants


You laugh but the Nicaraguan reference reminds me that, at least by longstanding legend among linguists, Noam Chomsky first demonstrated what became his field-changing theory of "Deep Structure" (and recursive transformation therein) to his dissertation adviser (Zell Harris) by drawing a sentence diagram on a napkin at a Horn And Hardart near the U Penn campus.
posted by spitbull at 8:15 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Perusing those Obama playlists got me all verklempt about how he could take joy in meeting random citizens (especially kids), and find (or at least plausibly simulate) pleasure in many of the the performative obligations associated with being President; it was like the aural equivalent of paging through Pete Souza photos. Obama was self-assured, respectful of others' experiences/expertise, and had no trouble concocting a theory of mind for other people, so he could share his personality, show curiousity during a factory tour or be moved to tears by someone else's pain. Or simply enjoy the perks of the office and the ability it gives him to be generous (Diet Coke and two scoops for all!). I remember that NYTMag piece about how the WH Correspondance Office compiled--no, curated-- ten letters from random citizens for Obama to read every day. Hard to imagine that now, isn't it?!?

Other than the truck episode, we haven't seen Trump take or find pleasure in the office's rituals beyond its ceremonial and majestic trappings. Even then, he doesn't look like he's experiencing the freight of the moment; the quality of his regard is always "Look at me, looking at you looking at me." Or it's putting all his energy into projecting the "I knew this already because I'm so smart" combination of impatience and disdain. Trump is so lazy, compared to Obama, and yet the latter found so many little spaces to take a moment of pleasure. Obama earned his respite and knew how to manage his emotions and physical needs, e.g., music, daily basketball, private time with this family that leaked into public displays of affection and delight (vs Trump's minimal interaction with Barron and stiff body language with Melania). Trump's respite entails yelling at the television and policing his brand identity.

In a way, the job may be more stressful for Trump than Obama, who understood the all of the stakes so much better. Trump lacks the chops or the discipline to bear down and turns to acting, without Reagan's skill, to hide his inadequacy, all the while questioning his own legitimacy. Imposter syndrome is exhausting. I know Dunning-Kruger is a hell of a drug, but the cognitive dissonance required to stay in its warm glow, as President of the United States, must also be exhausting to maintain (unless one suffers from incipient dementia, of course).

So it's jarring when we get tiny glimpses into Trump's humanity, because they are so rare. He doesn't seem to have friends, except for toadies and fellow narcissists and psychopaths. We never see him laugh or even smile in a genuine way, let alone crack a joke, tease someone with affection, or poke fun at himself. Trump couldn't wrangle any business associates or old friends to speak on his behalf at the RNC, only employees. There are no fun stories from back in the day about courting his wives or being a clueless father or that time in college or learning the ropes as a reality tv star. These gaps aren't due to his wealth or a preference for privacy--think how much more we knew about Romney, McCain, Cheney, or Kerry, all 9-figure guys--it's about his fundamental hollowness. It's strange to have an inhuman creature in the White House.

TL;DR I miss Obama. Trump sucks.
posted by carmicha at 8:16 AM on July 7, 2017 [125 favorites]


This creationism bullshit is a "Ben Stein movie."
posted by Chrysostom at 8:16 AM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


napkin
In other words, we really need to have more respect for public serviettes.
posted by spitbull at 8:18 AM on July 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Farmers from rural TN drove tractors through Nashville in a "Tractorcade" to protest Trumpcare.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:19 AM on July 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


Referring to Ferris Bueller's Day Off as "a Ben Stein movie" is kind of like calling Trump "a president." Technically true, but...

Well, that's twice now I tried to be funny and failed. Sorry about that, carry on.
posted by Melismata at 8:24 AM on July 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trump Wants Russia to Interfere for Him Again
It is frequently suggested that Trump’s solicitousness of Russian interests reflects his long-held affinity for strongmen, and that his imperviousness to the consensus that Russia meddled in the election reflects insecurity about the legitimacy of his victory in an election where he lost the popular vote to Hillary Clinton by millions. But this analysis, attractive and safe in some ways, is too generous. Matt Yglesias’s slightly harsher assessment in Vox, that Trump is behaving like an accessory after the fact, is closer to the mark but incomplete. Based on everything we know, it is less of a reach to assume not just that Trump is helping Russia cover up past crimes, but that he appreciated Russia’s meddling on his behalf, and is sending strong signals that he would welcome more of it in the future.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:24 AM on July 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


Well, that's twice now I tried to be funny and failed. Sorry about that, carry on.

I thought it was funny....
posted by zarq at 8:30 AM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


Kris Kobach Is Preparing to Be the Next Trump
Many people assume that Trump is an outlier. But it is just as likely that he is a prelude. As the Republican Party continues down its Trumpian path, Kobach’s future in national politics grows dismayingly brighter.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:30 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump is our Caligula. This is how empire ends. :(
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:30 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


On the other hand, I'd happily give up the empire if we could replace it with a nice egalitarian social democracy.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:33 AM on July 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


I've mulled it over, and I don't think I actually disagree with Lemieux's argument from the piece tonycpsu posted above. Naturally, I disagree with his apparent belief that the ACA is a universal program, which you can find elsewhere in his writing, not only because the policy has left many people uninsured, but also because it has often provided insurance with high co-pays and deductibles that make their benefits more theoretical than practical. Even if it isn't the Heritage program its detractors have often claimed it is, it obviously falls short of real universal care. If he really believes the ACA is a universal program, then that undercuts his argument, which is correct on its face.

But on to the real argument:
To people who think that the primary barrier standing in the way is the fecklessness or corruption of Democratic Party leadership, a Democratic president who favors single payer is most of the battle. But in reality it's more like 5 percent of the battle. Rather, the difficulty of getting to something like single payer is rooted in formidable structural barriers. In addition to the basic fact that the large number of veto points in the American system protects the status quo, there are two major factors that make the immediate abolition of all private health insurance an incredibly difficult political lift. And Republicans gutting the ACA wouldn't make them any less so.

The first is that the longer you wait to do a public system, the harder it is to accomplish. When countries like the U.K. and Canada passed nationalized and single-payer programs, respectively, health-care spending represented a much lower percentage of GDP. This made things easier for two reasons. First of all, these countries were able to overcome strong opposition from medical professionals by throwing money at them. American policy-makers won't be able to buy off doctors, hospitals, and other vested interests that way; indeed, any viable universal public insurance would have to give them a major haircut. This won't be easy. And, second, all of the countries that created universal programs decades ago have been able to control costs throughout that period. Keeping costs lower through public cost controls over time is a lot easier than cramming them down once they've been allowed to grow, as has happened in the U.S.
[...]
The difficult impediments standing in the way of single payer can be seen in the recently failed California proposal. Some of the problems with the bill were California-specific, but some have national implications. The designers of the program tried to deal with the second problem by offering public insurance with generous benefits that would leave very few people worse off. But this ran the bill straight into problem No. 1 — the bill would have been exorbitantly expensive. The answer to the question of whether the levels of taxation necessary to fund the program would be politically viable is implicitly answered by the fact that the Senate bill didn't contain a funding mechanism at all.
All this is correct. Real, effective, universal tax-paid care will be difficult to enact for a multitude of reasons. The healthcare industry will regard socialized medicine as an attack on their business and use their large influence to resist it every step of the way, whether the reform is done unwisely in one fell swoop or more prudently, by steps. Taxes will need to rise, but in the long run healthcare's cost to society will decrease as the industry takes the haircut it has needed to take for decades, and so they probably won't need to rise to oppressive levels, to say the least. Not to mention that taxes may rise, but personal healthcare expenses would plummet, which balance should always figure in these arguments. None of these difficulties should discourage us from pushing for socialized medicine of one kind or another, nor should the necessity of prudence encourage us to take so long in reforming the system that the Republicans get the chance to sabotage the process.

But that's a pretty abstract threat with the Republicans so thoroughly in control today.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:33 AM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


As an abstract, as a curve, it exists. But our taxes are not high enough for it to apply.

Actually the Laffer curve is a fairly useful little thought experiment, if you omit the erroneous assumption about where taxes currently fall on it.

Start with a few plausible assumptions:
1. Tax revenue is a continuous function of tax rate.
2. Actual tax revenues are lowest at 0% and 100% taxes.
3. There is a single rate at which revenues are maximized.

It may even help to draw that on a napkin. Three dots left to right, with the highest one in the middle, and a curve through them. Then another dot for where you think tax rates currently are.

It follows that if the current rate is above that maximizing rate (to the right of it on your napkin), then reducing tax rates will increase revenues. Obviously if you're below that rate, the reverse is true.

Academic research puts the maximizing rate somewhere around a 70% top marginal rate. Empirical indicators -- e.g. what actually happens when we change tax rates -- tend to agree. The 1964 Kennedy tax cuts, from ~90% to ~70%, actually increased revenue. The Reagan tax cuts, and every cut since, have decreased revenue. Clinton and Obama tax hikes increased revenue.

Obviously it's a whole other policy question whether maximizing tax revenue ought to be a goal anyway. There are some convincing arguments that it should be for the top bracket. In any case, it's clearly not a goal for Republicans -- they're quite clear that they want to minimize tax revenue -- so when they bring up the Laffer curve, that's actually a total non-sequitur.
posted by dirge at 8:36 AM on July 7, 2017 [47 favorites]


Mental Wimp: "Trump is our Caligula. This is how empire ends. :("

Caligula was only the third emperor! The empire went on for a *long* time after him.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:37 AM on July 7, 2017 [31 favorites]


Trump is our Caligula. This is how empire ends. :(
posted by Mental Wimp


The "good" news: Caligula was nowhere near the end of the Roman Empire; he wasn't even the end of the Julio-Claudian dynasty. If we were really in a Caligula 2.0 situation, you'd look for the Secret Service to stage a coup and put someone more capable on the throne (and Claudius was decently capable), and for things to continue with various ups and downs for hundreds of years.

The bad news: Trump reminds me a lot more of Commodus, under whom things ran OK on bureaucratic autopilot for a little while as he sawed at the civic structure through both action and inaction, until the whole thing collapsed into a series of civil wars that lasted for decades and damned near destroyed the empire.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:39 AM on July 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


> Naturally, I disagree with his apparent belief that the ACA is a universal program, which you can find elsewhere in his writing,

Where? I see nothing in either piece that suggests that ACA is already universal. It clearly is not. What I do see is a belief that the ACA was a step toward universality from the status quo (which it clearly was), and that allowing TrumpCare to pass would be extremely counterproductive toward the pursuit of a truly universal healthcare system.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:40 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah, Trump is 100% Commodus, for sure. He loves to name shit after himself, obsessively rejects the norms established by his predecessor, relies on adulation gained through staged entertainment, and is, of course, a total megalomaniacal loon. It checks out.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:45 AM on July 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


That Nokia phone is [real]. This fucking timeline is wack.
posted by zakur at 8:47 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Where? I see nothing in either piece that suggests that ACA is already universal. It clearly is not. What I do see is a belief that the ACA was a step toward universality from the status quo (which it clearly was), and that allowing TrumpCare to pass would be extremely counterproductive toward the pursuit of a truly universal healthcare system.

I thought of passages like this:
The idea that the structure of ObamaCare would insulate it from political pushback was always based on a lie: that national Republicans would support good universal coverage as long as the market was involved. This has never been true.
Good universal coverage?

Like I said, I agree with his argument, I agree with you that the ACA was a step in the right direction, if only a step, and I may read him uncharitably because Lawyers, Guns, and Money makes me break out in hives.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:48 AM on July 7, 2017


True fact: the Ode to Joy from the 9th symphony was used as the basis for the racist apartheid-endorsing national anthem of Rhodesia.

And in the Die Hard soundtrack, so there's that.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:50 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


True fact: the Ode to Joy from the 9th symphony was used as the basis for the racist apartheid-endorsing national anthem of Rhodesia.

And in the Die Hard soundtrack, so there's that.


Trump used to be business partners with a guy named Hans Gruber

The writers of this fucking season, I swear...
posted by Etrigan at 8:53 AM on July 7, 2017 [47 favorites]


Well, if he's Commodus then we've still got the Severans to look forward to. (Does that make Eisenhower Trajan?)
posted by orrnyereg at 8:54 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


We've had some discussion on this in the past - 538 looks at whether it's even possible to re-run a fraudulent Presidential election.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:59 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Pence picture where he is touching the piece of NASA equipment right below the "Do Not Touch" sign feels like the defining photo of the administration.
posted by drezdn at 8:59 AM on July 7, 2017 [64 favorites]


The clear implication she's making is that they believe someone (TRUMP PEOPLE) is deliberately trying to discredit the media by getting them to report false things.

I believe this is what happened to Dan Rather, but he and his team weren't smart enough to notice the forgery.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:00 AM on July 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump used to be business partners with a guy named Hans Gruber

Trump voters: After all your posturing, all your little speeches, you're nothing but a common thief!
Trump: I am the biggest, best thief, okay? Tremendous thief, believe me.
posted by entropicamericana at 9:01 AM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump voters: After all your posturing, all your little speeches, you're nothing but a common thief!
Trump: I am the biggest, best thief, okay? Tremendous thief, believe me.


I'm pretty sure that in this scenario, Trump's voters are Hart Bochner.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:03 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I could easily picture Trump waddling over to Merkel and saying "Hey, sprechen ze talk?"
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:06 AM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Marcy Wheeler: Trump Was Worried HR McMaster or Fiona Hill Would Spy on His Conversation with Putin
Thankfully, the NYT has finally revealed that it was Trump, not Putin, who chose to limit attendees. [...]

And he did so specifically to avoid leaks about what would transpire.

This means that Trump (personally, given the NYT portrayal) decided to exclude his National Security Advisor and top Russian advisor. And he did so, again, based on the NYT reporting, because he didn’t want a competing account from coming out. He basically excluded the key staffers who should have been in the meeting, in spite of the wishes of aides, to avoid having Russian critics describing what really happened in his meeting with Putin.

Remember, this is not the first time Trump has excluded McMaster from a key meeting: he also left McMaster sitting outside his meeting with Bibi Netanyahu, after belatedly inviting Tillerson in.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:10 AM on July 7, 2017 [55 favorites]


The Pence picture where he is touching the piece of NASA equipment right below the "Do Not Touch" sign feels like the defining photo of the administration.

It also makes the "not allowed to dine with a woman sans chaperone" rule much more understandable.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:12 AM on July 7, 2017 [91 favorites]


Metafilter: Don't even get me started on Titus Flavius.
posted by spitbull at 9:13 AM on July 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


Ben Wittes: I will be very interested to learn whether the true lesson of this @maddow story is that The Intercept has, as I predicted, been penetrated.

I wonder if former yoga instructor, animal lover and Trump critic Reality Winner, who was arrested just about exactly a month ago (although it seems like years), was an unknowing cat's paw, enticed by her discovery of a bombshell planted in her path. That would explain how a lowly newbie contractor on the job just six months got to see something so damaging.
posted by carmicha at 9:14 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


This means that Trump (personally, given the NYT portrayal) decided to exclude his National Security Advisor and top Russian advisor. And he did so, again, based on the NYT reporting, because he didn’t want a competing account from coming out. He basically excluded the key staffers who should have been in the meeting, in spite of the wishes of aides, to avoid having Russian critics describing what really happened in his meeting with Putin.

The deeply moronic nature of this administration is really our only saving grace. This swiss-cheese-brained oaf doesn't trust any of his own staff, hamstringing his entire administration.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:15 AM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Re: Reality Winner

The documents that Winner leaked were genuine. Someone then used (TRMS claims) those publicly-available documents to manufacture more intriguing fake documents (although they apparently began that forgery prior to the public release of the Winner docs).
posted by pjenks at 9:19 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]




I wonder if former yoga instructor, animal lover and Trump critic Reality Winner, who was arrested just about exactly a month ago (although it seems like years), was an unknowing cat's paw, enticed by her discovery of a bombshell planted in her path. That would explain how a lowly newbie contractor on the job just six months got to see something so damaging.

Apparently if you work at a company that contracts for the NSA you can just do search on their internal computer systems and drag up stuff like that, which is what she did. On the minus side it's totally obvious that you did it, as they track that stuff.
posted by Artw at 9:23 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


hey, Sarah Palin, what're you up to these days?

oh nothing much just namechecking neonazis* on my twitter: "Trump Gives Speech to the People of Poland, Says 14 Words That Leave Americans Stunned"
posted by indubitable at 9:30 AM on July 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


Jim Acosta‏Verified account @Acosta 14 minutes ago:
Trump Putin meeting reaches 2 hour mark, our @Kevinliptakcnn reports.

That's a bit long for Donnie's attention span innit?
posted by valetta at 9:33 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


It takes a while for Putin to decide which code word classified programs he wants to be read in to. This is beyond his wildest dreams, they're probably literally making a copy of the nuclear football right now. Whatever Putin asks for, Trump is calling up for him to look at and make copies.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:37 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Podesta's response to Trump's tweet is pretty tasty. (TW: Tweetstorm)

1/ On a x-country road trip with my wife;
2/ Pulled in for a pit stop in E. Fairmont W. Va. to see that our whack job POTUS @realDonaldTrump is tweeting about me at the G20.
3/ Get a grip man, the Russians committed a crime when they stole my emails to help get you elected President.
4/ Maybe you might try to find a way to mention that to President Putin.
5/ BTW, I had nothing to do with the DNC.
6/ God only knows what you'll be raving about on twitter by the time we get to Utah.
7/7 Dude, get your head in the game. You’re representing the US at the G20.
posted by msalt at 9:40 AM on July 7, 2017 [97 favorites]


Putin's been speaking in Russian the whole time and Trump's still nodding along pretending he understands.
posted by dng at 9:41 AM on July 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


While we wait on the news, a quick aside: I was listening to the July 3rd episode of Pod Save America (specifically, "Tweet Your Feelings" - not linked on their website right now, but on the RSS feed), and they had an interview with Cory Booker.

I'm not that familiar with Cory Booker - generally positive, but I've heard some grumbling about his Wall Street connections - but this interview, wow! It gave me "early Obama" chills. If you haven't already made up your mind on Booker and haven't heard this interview, I recommend it. He's very, very good.

It's the last ~half hour of the "Tweet Your Feelings" 3rd July episode. (Direct mp3 link.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:44 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Trump Putin meeting reaches 2 hour mark, our @Kevinliptakcnn reports.
That's a bit long for Donnie's attention span innit?


You don't actually think Putin would bring B-list pole dancers, do you?
posted by Rykey at 9:44 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Is there a summary of the Reality Winner/Maddow/Intercept thing? I'm having a hard time piecing it together. Are people saying the initial document that Reality Winner leaked is real, but prior to it being leaked somebody used parts of it to create a fake document?
posted by gucci mane at 9:47 AM on July 7, 2017


Rachel Maddow is doing a piece about how her show was sent a forged document relating to the document that Reality Winner leaked to the Intercept. The clear implication she's making is that they believe someone (TRUMP PEOPLE) is deliberately trying to discredit the media by getting them to report false things.

It's a long-standing right wing trick, used to destroy Dan Rather's storied career, and insulate George Bush Jr. from the pretty obvious truth that he used cocaine (which is more or less admitted). It has the stench of a Roger Stone maneuver though I have no evidence for that.
posted by msalt at 9:47 AM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]




Macron does not sound like the left-moderate leader I had hoped for: 'King Macron': French President Earns Comparisons To Napoleon (NPR, July 6, 2017)
EDOUARD LE CERF: We have a president that, now, everybody is looking at. And everybody is considering him as a new strongman in Europe. He is able to balance in a different way the powers between France and Germany and make Europe strong and ambitious again.

ELEANOR BEARDSLEY (NPR): But the media is chafing under Macron's imperious, scripted communication style and careful staging of events. There are no leaks in his administration. And Macron, unlike Hollande, does not chitchat with journalists. He even cancelled the traditional Bastille Day interview with two TV anchors. Macron's spokesperson said the president's thoughts are too complex for journalists' questions.

Instead, this week, Macron decided to address the more than 900 members of the French House and the Senate in a kind of State of the Union speech. Macron told lawmakers he has a clear mandate from the people to transform the country, and that includes reducing their numbers by a third to make government more efficient.
...
Macron says he wants his presidential style to be like Jupiter, the all-powerful Roman god of the gods. Political analysts Barbier does not believe Macron wants more power. He just has a different style of leadership. Still, Barbier says there are parallels to be drawn between the new president and Napoleon, who brought France from the 18th century into modernity.
France’s liberal strongman (Paul Taylor, July 3, 2017 on Politico.eu)
With bone-crunching handshakes and plain speaking, he seems determined to show himself as much the alpha male on the global stage as Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin or Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, but in the cause of liberal values — multilateral governance, open trade, human rights and diversity — that make him the antithesis of their nationalist ideologies.

At home, Macron has displayed ruthless opportunism. In just six weeks in office, he has split and decimated the main political parties, turned his own fledgling movement into the biggest political force in the country, upstaged his own center-right prime minister, Edouard Philippe, and eased his main centrist ally, François Bayrou, out of government over a party funding scandal. He has humiliated Manuel Valls, the former Socialist premier under whom he served, imposed new rules of the game on the media and moved to entrench emergency search and arrest powers permanently, on grounds of national security.

The 39-year-old political novice has forced political old-timers to kiss his ring or face electoral oblivion. His advance from stripling to strongman belies his youth and relative inexperience.

At some point, the new French president’s taste for personal power and his libertarian instincts are likely to collide.
...
He is determined to carry out a “Jupiterian presidency,” a reference to the king of the gods in Roman mythology. The term evokes a leader who sets a long-term course, speaks only occasionally in public and stays aloof from daily affairs. It is an intentional contrast with his predecessors, Nicolas Sarkozy and François Hollande, who gave a running commentary in the media on daily events, micro-managed government and party business, but were unable to enact a strategic plan to reform the country.
...
The new French leader’s critics say he is already showing signs of succumbing to the foibles of personal rule: an over-concentration of power, a tendency to sideline intermediate institutions such as trade unions and political parties and a demagogic use of the symbols of power. His long, slow walk through the courtyard of the Louvre Palace on the night of his presidential election triumph and his early use of the ornate Versailles Palace — home of the “Sun King” Louis XIV — to host Russian President Vladimir Putin illustrated his taste for harnessing the trappings of state to project personal authority.
It sounds like his current path was a surprise to most, but I'd be interested to hear if others saw this coming.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:54 AM on July 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


gucci mane: Is there a summary of the Reality Winner/Maddow/Intercept thing? I'm having a hard time piecing it together. Are people saying the initial document that Reality Winner leaked is real, but prior to it being leaked somebody used parts of it to create a fake document?

The Washington post has a write-up on the Maddow story.

Yes, the leaked (real) document was used as a template for a fake document. In the metadata of the fake document, TRMS found that the fake had been created between the time that Reality Winner was arrested and the Intercept had published the document. This limits the number of people who created the forgery to the Intercept or people who verified the document's authenticity for the Intercept.
posted by pjenks at 10:00 AM on July 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


msalt: "3/ Get a grip man, the Russians committed a crime when they stole my emails to help get you elected President.
[...]
5/ BTW, I had nothing to do with the DNC.
"

Matt Yglesias pointed out on Twitter earlier that there are several distinct email-related stories surrounding the Democratic side of the 2016 election: Clinton's private email server, the DNC hack, and the successful spear-phishing of Podesta's gmail account. And, basically no one but the most meticulous political watchers (which excludes a shocking but also not shocking number of actual journalists) can tell the difference between all of these.
posted by mhum at 10:01 AM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


It sounds like his current path was a surprise to most, but I'd be interested to hear if others saw this coming.
I didn't think at all about this kind of behavior, but certainly wasn't aware that he was considered by any as progressive or to the left. I always assumed he was as neoliberal money-centered as the many protesting his campaign said he was.
posted by rc3spencer at 10:03 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


It sounds like his current path was a surprise to most, but I'd be interested to hear if others saw this coming.

Here's Macron expressing his admiration for the monarchy to a newspaper several years ago

He's a former banker who was largely responsible for the unpopular austerity policies of the previous administration as finance minister. Nobody in France should be surprised.
posted by indubitable at 10:05 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


And, basically no one but the most meticulous political watchers (which excludes a shocking but also not shocking number of actual journalists) can tell the difference between all of these.

When John McCain babbled some wordsalad at James Comey, the translation was basically "I have no idea what the difference is between Podesta being spearfished, the DNC email hack and the Clinton private server and which, if any, of those things we are currently talking about."
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:05 AM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


there are several distinct email-related stories...

Also the DCCC hack in late July that might have torpedoed some Democratic Congressional campaigns. Although I guess that was more documents than "emails".
posted by pjenks at 10:06 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jesus Christ. Two hours.

Why the fuck can't somebody in this administration who is slightly interested in the world not going up in flames do something about this?

I mean, I'd pull the fire alarm, at least.
posted by angrycat at 10:08 AM on July 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Maybe it's all nefarious plotting but I'll bet 1:45 of that is zany who's-on-first antics with the translators
posted by theodolite at 10:11 AM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


It sounds like his current path was a surprise to most, but I'd be interested to hear if others saw this coming.

I expected Gaullism with a pretty face, but under the circumstances, I think it's still to be preferred to what was the most likely alternative.

(I've been on vacay, so I haven't kept up with the details, but holy shit that Maddow story.)
posted by octobersurprise at 10:16 AM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


ProPublica: ICE Officers Told to Take Action Against All Undocumented Immigrants Encountered While on Duty

It's not going to happen, but at this point ICE and CBP need to just be shuttered, everyone fired, and new agencies established to do those jobs that are forbidden from hiring former ICE/CBP employees. We don't need a Stasi.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:30 AM on July 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


Ok, glad to see everything is clear now:
@PeterAlexander: SIREN: Tillerson says Pres Trump *opened Putin meeting by raising issue of Russian meddling in 2016 election.

@NeilMacFarquhar: Lavrov: #Trump said he accepted statements from #Putin that #Russia had not hacked election.
posted by pjenks at 10:34 AM on July 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


Atlantic (Brownstein): There are 10 Dem Senators from Trump states up in 2018. Everyone expected them to be running scared. That's not what's happening.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:36 AM on July 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


About Macron: the French system is a mess, much like those of the US and UK, and probably there is no other way to reform than an autocratic president. What is good is that one of his reforms is to make the parliament more representative. This can go in all directions, and since the French people have elected him and his followers across the board, we'll just have to wait and see.
What he is doing about public access is not very different from what Obama did and which also caused a lot of criticism. Back then I thought transparency was an absolute good, but after the rise of Fox News and their likes, I really don't know.
posted by mumimor at 10:37 AM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Guardian: US, Russia offer contradictory versions of conversation about election tampering

Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov told reporters that Trump had accepted Putin’s denial of tampering in the US election.

US secretary of state Rex Tillerson, however, offered a different picture. He told reporters that it was not clear whether the two countries would ever come to a resolution on the question of election interference.

Tillerson said that Trump had pressed Putin more than once about Russian involvement in election tampering, and Putin denied Russian tampering.

Here’s the Guardian’s Shaun Walker with more on Lavrov’s statement:
An unusually irritable Sergei Lavrov took questions from the Russian media. It sounded like there had been few major breakthroughs.

The most interesting part was his claim that Trump had told Putin he found it “strange” that there was a “campaign” over alleged Russian hacking in the election as there has been no proof.

Lavrov claims Trump told Putin he had heard his entreaties that Russia did not hack the election and accepts them.

That’s at odds with Rex Tillerson’s account of a fundamental disagreement.

posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:55 AM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


I don't know to be amused or terrified that perhaps even Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov is, just like us, desirous of ejecting Trump from the planet
posted by angrycat at 10:58 AM on July 7, 2017


@ElizLanders (CNN): Wow. Tillerson says that @potus *opened the meeting* talking about Russian interference in the election. Putin denied it.

"Thank you so much for meddling in the election!"

"It was nothing, don't mention it!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:59 AM on July 7, 2017 [47 favorites]


My theory is that the "Everyone" he refers to here is Rudy Giuliani. I can't think of anyone else at the G20 summit who knows or cares about Podesta (who of course had nothing to do with the DNC computers and was only marginally involved because he also was hacked.) We know Giuliani has that fake cyber security company he is probably flogging so maybe he brought up Podesta's name in passing.

Or maybe the "everyone's talking" refers to the voices in Trump's head.


It is an oldie pegged to his astonishing "Nobody knew health care could be so complicated" statement, where Mike Pesca explores Trump's use of 'nobody', 'everybody', and 'somebody'. It is all written out but I'd recommend listening to the audio version as it really packs a punch in spoken form.
posted by mmascolino at 11:03 AM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


>> "Tillerson says that @potus *opened the meeting* talking about Russian interference in the election. Putin denied it."

> "Thank you so much for meddling in the election!"
> "It was nothing, don't mention it!"


That's a very ambiguous statement from Order of Lenin-awardee Sleepy T, isn't it?

"I had the best election, so many states, said it couldn't be done, it was the largest Electoral College victory ever. And all that fake news about Russia and hacking."

"Yes Donnie, fake news. Now, what are the codes to the nuclear football? Longing. Rusted. Seventeen. Daybreak. Furnace. Nine. Benign. Homecoming. One. Freight car."
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:04 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Glenn Greenwald and The Intercept have just posted an article in response to Rachel Maddow's story last night. He seriously calls into question the detail about the metadata indicating a creation date for the fake document prior to the publication, by showing that the original document, created by the Intercept, has the same metadata as the forgery:
If you look at the time-stamp on the metadata on the document which the Intercept published, it reads “June 5, 12:17:15 pm” — exactly the same time and date, to the second, as the one on the document received by Maddow.
It seems that the pool of forgery suspects just widened to the entire internet-connected world.
posted by pjenks at 11:05 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Moscow and DC will set up joint working group on cybersecurity

aka "Burglar will help set your new alarm code!"
posted by bluecore at 11:07 AM on July 7, 2017 [52 favorites]


hey, Sarah Palin, what're you up to these days?

oh nothing much just namechecking neonazis* on my twitter: "Trump Gives Speech to the People of Poland, Says 14 Words That Leave Americans Stunned"



What


The linked article doesn't even say what the 14 words from the speech are supposed to be. Aaaaaaaggggghhhh asdfjklhasdhasdfjkl
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 11:11 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Putin mainsplains to the leader of the free world. (brief GIF on Twitter).
posted by AwkwardPause at 11:15 AM on July 7, 2017 [50 favorites]


We don't need a Stasi.

Well we're not gonna brutalize ourselves, are we?

I hope that's not too on the nose or hyperbolic, but ICE/CBP ain't exactly gonna defend our rights, are they? Nope, that's on us.
posted by saysthis at 11:20 AM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Greenwald's credibility on this is not high, sitting in multiple blindspots of his as it does.
posted by Artw at 11:22 AM on July 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


cjelli: maybe that's a sign to rewrite the piece to foreground the important bits, rather than the unimportant bits?

I disagree. I thought the most important, or at least most actionable, element of the Maddow story was that the forgery was created prior to the publication of the real document. I'm sure news organizations get fake stuff sent to them all of the time, and they must spend a lot of time trying to verify. I would agree with Greenwald's point that the Maddow story now provides no evidence for a "widespread, coordinated, official effort to feed news outlets false information in order to discredit stories about Trump and Russia."

Artw: Greenwald's credibility on this is not high, sitting in multiple blindspots of his as it does.

Regardless of his leanings, it looks to me like he's pointing out a simple fact. Looks like Maddow's team was a little sloppy in not checking the metadata of the document published by The Intercept.
posted by pjenks at 11:25 AM on July 7, 2017


That "civilization" speech Trump delivered in Warsaw gave me the chills. The @POTUS account has retweeted excerpts from a WSJ editorial (full version paywalled) which is worse, by far. We have learned to ignore the crap emanating from Cheeto's mouth. But to see the WSJ spouting this dangerous fascist shit:
> It is a determined and affirmative defense of the Western tradition.
>Like the best presidential speeches, it contained affirmations of ideas and principles and related them to the current political moment.
>This is a warning to the West and a call to action.
>Mr. Trump is taking a clear stand against the kind of gauzy globalism and vague multiculturalism represented by the worldview of, say, Barack Obama and most contemporary Western intellectuals, who are willing, even eager, to concede the argument to critics of the West’s traditions.
FUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKK that and the horse it rode in on.
posted by stonepharisee at 11:26 AM on July 7, 2017 [60 favorites]


The actual facts raised in that Intercept piece seem valid enough -- if the metadata on the forged PDF just matches the original Winner document, then there's no reason to think the forger got it from something other than the public dump. That doesn't change the part where someone is peddling forged "smoking gun" documents to left-leaning media, about which Greenwald doesn't seem to give a rat's ass.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:27 AM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


So Trump is currently listening to a choir and the Hamburg Philharmonic Orchestra perform Ode to Joy. I wonder if he's feeling joyful. I wonder if he knows it's part of a symphony. I wonder if he knows anything.
posted by zachlipton at 11:34 AM on July 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


I've been reading Only Yesterday: An Informal History of the 1920s by Frederick Lewis Allen, a not particularly radical history book.

I thought this tidbit of history was interesting. Henry Cabot Lodge, senior Republican senator from Massachusetts was concerned about Woodrow Wilson going to Versailles to negotiate the treaty that ended World War I. Wilson, among other things, wanted The League of Nations, which Lodge believed, might entangle in European affairs. Wilson also opposed heavy war reparations against Germany.

Wilson, although a racist [he was born in antebellum Virginia], had written histories about the aftermath of the American Civil War and knew how subjugation could lead to bad results.

England, Italy and France wanted war reparations from Germany. According to the book, "So strongly did he [Lodge] feel that Wilson's assumption of the right to speak for American opinion was unwarranted and iniquitous, that when Henry White, the only Republican on the American Peace Commission, sailed for Europe, Lodge put into White's hands a secret memorandum containing his own extremely un-Wilsonian idea of what peace terms the American people would stand for. . ." [p. 26]

This effectively undermined Wilson's treaty negotiations and helped saddle Germany with massive debts and the annexation of land, both which played into the rise of Naziism.

Lodge went on to make sure the Versailles treaty was rejected in the Senate.

So, that's another treaty that Republicans secretly helped to scuttle, in this case, providing impetus for WWII.

Interestingly, Lodge's grandson, Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. [sic], went on to negotiate the Paris accord to end the American-Vietnam conflict.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:35 AM on July 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


From the article Chrysostom linked above about how Dem Senators in states that went for Trump aren't running scared:
“They had better hope the king is dead,” said Pennsylvania-based GOP consultant John Brabender, “and that a year from now Donald Trump isn’t being seen, on the core issues he promised to these [voters], that he has delivered.”
Please, Brabender, eat my entire, sweaty, summer-in-a-suit-in-Philly ass.

The article is also a remarkably shitty piece of analysis, in that it frames Casey and Munchin as being in the same boat, when Trump took PA by 50,000 votes or 0.2%, but won West Virginia by over 300,000 votes or 40%.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:36 AM on July 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


> I wonder if he's feeling joyful. I wonder if he knows it's part of a symphony. I wonder if he knows anything.

I bet he's bored as shit and can't wait to get back to watching TV.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:39 AM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


WaPo: Trump voter commission to store data on White House computers under Pence staff direction. I wonder if this plan has been approved by Giuliani's cybersecurity firm, because it sounds pretty darn dumb.

In ACA news, KFF built a nice poll aggregator, in which you can see how much support for the Republican plans has dropped even among Trump voters.

WSJ on the Putin meeting: [real!]
Mr. Tillerson said the meeting went long because the two sides “had so much to talk about,” adding U.S. officials had sent first lady Melania Trump into the room to see if she could bring it to an end.
@AndrewBeatty: Fun fact, your White House poolers were just escorted to the Russian motorcade, before mistake was realized and we turned around.

I sometimes close these comments with the silliest or strangest or stupidest or worst or most 2017 vaguely on-topic thing I've seen recently, and I was pretty sure the Russian motorcade thing was it, but I'm pretty sure I just topped it. WaPo: FBI investigated complaints that Bobby Knight groped women at U.S. spy agency
Even before he started cursing from the podium at a U.S. spy agency, Bobby Knight was an unorthodox choice to deliver a lecture on leadership.

Employees at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) complained in advance about their boss’s decision to invite the Hall of Fame basketball coach to give a speech at their headquarters, given his history of bullying players, demeaning women and throwing furniture. But that was nothing compared with the troubles triggered by Knight’s July 10, 2015, visit to the agency at Fort Belvoir, Va., near Washington.

Four women who worked at the spy agency alleged that Knight had groped or touched them inappropriately in brief encounters before and after his speech, according to investigative documents and interviews with more than a dozen NGA officials.
Prosecutors declined to bring charges after an investigation.
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on July 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


We have learned to ignore the crap emanating from Cheeto's mouth. But to see the WSJ spouting this dangerous fascist shit:

Contrariwise, a good antidote might be from James Fallows, How American Presidents Used to Speak Overseas:
Is America an idea? Or is it a specific “people” or ethnic group? On the diverging answers to that question turn some of the biggest disputes in U.S. history. Our current president began his trip to Europe with a speech in Poland that minimized the role of ideals in American identity, and maximized the importance of what he called “civilization” but which boils down to ties of ethnicity and blood.

From Donald Trump this cannot be a great surprise, given the support he has courted and the American groups he has derogated during his time on the public stage. But for a president of the United States it still counts as a notable, even shocking departure. A president’s role when traveling has, until now, been to speak for the American idea.
posted by peeedro at 11:49 AM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Caligula was only the third emperor! The empire went on for a *long* time after him.

Yeah, but Commodus isn't as good an analogy for Trump.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:15 PM on July 7, 2017


I find it hard to believe Sarah Palin is an actual Nazi, because she's way too dumb to be subtle enough about it that she'd deliberately throw out a "14 Words" reference.

She's awful and racist and horrible but I feel like there's a level of ideology she's missing because it would require ideas. The worst kind of ideas, but still.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:23 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Maybe she's into Palin genetic Ultranationalism.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:26 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


The 39-year-old political novice has forced political old-timers to kiss his ring or face electoral oblivion. His advance from stripling to strongman belies his youth and relative inexperience.

The Young PopePresident
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:28 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why'd Palin say it then? There's no reference to it anywhere in the article itself. Unless it's copypasta rather than a retweet from some Nazi idiot and she didn't realize...but I have a hard time believing she's THAT stupid. I mean I know she's stupid and she does lack subtlety, but DAMN that's pretty hecking stupid.

NSAID: The linked article doesn't even say what the 14 words from the speech are supposed to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words
posted by elsietheeel at 12:34 PM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Why'd Palin say it then?
Apparently it's an auto-generated headline when shared on facebook.
posted by pjenks at 12:36 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


My theory is that Palin knows people will call it out as a White Nationalist thing, but she did it to get people upset about it, and then say "I didn't mean it that way at all. The media/left is the worst." If this is true, she's still a terrible person.
posted by drezdn at 12:37 PM on July 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


I find it hard to believe Sarah Palin is an actual Nazi, because she's way too dumb to be subtle enough about it that she'd deliberately throw out a "14 Words" reference.

The whole point of it is to trigger a response (which it did) without actually saying anything explicitly racist so she can stand there with butter not melting in her mouth as she innocently says "who me?" It's the response she needs so she can play the victim. "They're saying I'm a racist! I never said anything remotely racist."
posted by scalefree at 12:37 PM on July 7, 2017 [12 favorites]




From the Alt Right back to Nazis and further back to the Klan, there's a long history of dumb racist assholes like Palin thinking their coded language is somehow clever. It's not really something she needs to be smart to reference, it's just in-group signaling for revolting dipshits.
posted by jason_steakums at 12:40 PM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Republican Senator Confronted by His Daughters' Pediatrician Over Health Care Bill

Not as inflammatory as it sounds, but encouraging nonetheless.

Everytime I see pieces like this, though, I am struck by the fact that Republican lawmakers act surprised that their constituents are very concerned about something that will result in their personal suffering and death.

The lack of imagination/insulation/self-delusion a person has to have to NOT know this is staggering in a way I can't really even articulate.
posted by emjaybee at 12:41 PM on July 7, 2017 [55 favorites]


If you want to make the Roman emperor analogy, pretty much anyone after 400 was a total incompetent propped up by distrusted outsiders and dedicated to building gold statues of themselves while the world burned around them. Just because Valentinian III gets less press than Caligula doesn't mean he wasn't just as bad in a lot of ways that analogize to Trump.
posted by Copronymus at 12:41 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


If Palin did it knowing how people would take it and didn't mean it that way, it's just as bad, as the racists will think they have a powerful ally on their side.
posted by drezdn at 12:43 PM on July 7, 2017


I know I've talked about this before, and banging this drum makes me feel like a snob, but this Western Culture horseshit bothers me in particular. I provide logistical support for cultural organizations who have to beg and scrape for every ounce of resources they can get, often collapsing financially while receiving significant accolades for their artistic achievements.

I would be stunned to learn that so much as 1 in 10 of these vocal defenders of our revered Western Tradition regularly sat their asses in a seat for so much as a play, let alone a ballet, opera, or symphony. To say nothing of donating money, which is what actually makes cultural events happen.

If pop culture is their milieu, that's entirely fine, but that's contemporary, corporate, and multicultural in nature, and I'd appreciate it if they'd shut the hell up about the importance of Shakespeare and Beethoven if they're not going to support arts institutions or the NEA, because some of us are actually trying to maintain the things they claim to value, and they're bumming us out.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:43 PM on July 7, 2017 [77 favorites]


To follow on pjenks' comment, that tagline is in the article's HTML metadata as the Open Graph Title, along with a description of "Mutual Respect." (?)

<meta property="og:title" content="Trump Gives Speech to the People of Poland, Says 14 Words That Leave Americans Stunned"/>
<meta property="og:description" content="Mutual Respect."/>
posted by cybertaur1 at 12:49 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah, and she did in fact link to the article on facebook. So, the headline was probably written by some budding nazi at youngcons.com.
posted by pjenks at 12:52 PM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Russia's foreign minister says Trump and Putin discussed cybersecurity and agreed to set up a joint group to address it.

Maybe NSA could spare a conference room.

There are always new depths, aren't there?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:52 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Okay, so she really is THAT dumb. And if she's not then she can play dumb and we'll all believe her because she really is THAT dumb.

*sigh*
posted by elsietheeel at 12:54 PM on July 7, 2017


I want to point out that none of these possibilities mean Palin isn't a horrible moronic racist garbage fire.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:56 PM on July 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Mike Konczal/Rortybomb in Vox: What the stock market’s rise under Trump should teach Democrats
This pain is worth dwelling on. Since the election, numerous articles have argued that the Democrats need to become more populist. But they generally don’t get into the specific questions that Democrats need to answer in the wake of 2016. The stock market issue is useful here, as it touches on several issues that Democrats need to reckon with while they are in the political wilderness.

First, Democrats need to reevaluate their idea of themselves as disinterested stewards of the economy — as a party that accepts the current economic arrangements largely as a given. Second, they need to understand what their coalition looks like if they can’t peel off moderate Republicans, as they predicted they would throughout 2016. Third, they also need to decide if the economy requires structural changes, or merely some tinkering around the edges. And finally, they must decide whether social programs should target narrow populations or lean towards universalism.

A Democratic Party that believes that it is the party that is truly good for the stock market would answer these questions one way; a party that looks beyond the stock market answers it another way.
[...]
The Obama administration avoided calling out the predations of Wall Street after the financial crisis and didn’t take strong actions to prevent foreclosures that would upset the capital markets. Yet finance still hates the Democrats and is waging war on the sensible, necessary reforms Dodd-Frank put in place to prevent Wall Street from creating another crisis. There’s no middle ground to be had there. (Fittingly, the current Treasury secretary, busily rolling back financial reform and soon to lead an assault on progressive taxation, ran a foreclosure mill that the Democrats refused to investigate or prosecute aggressively.)

One key question for Democrats is the old labor one: “Which side are you on?” The Democratic Party used to give the answer, as Harry Truman did in 1948, that it “is pledged to work for labor.” In recent decades they’ve given an answer that was essentially “all sides, for the common good.” After 2016, Democrats should pick a side again.
And more honestly, this time: Truman's Democratic Party still had to please its segregationist Southerners, hollowing out its claims to represent the working person by excluding black people from its labor protections. Today's Democratic Party has no such sectional albatross around its neck, and no excuse to abandon working people to their fate.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:58 PM on July 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


Mike Konczal/Rortybomb in Vox: What the stock market’s rise under Trump should teach Democrats

I was hoping that the answer was that capitalism is evil and that the Dems need to go full communism but alas.
posted by dis_integration at 1:10 PM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


if the metadata on the forged PDF just matches the original Winner document, then there's no reason to think the forger got it from something other than the public dump.

Can't time stamp metadata be hacked directly anyway? If not by direct editing, just changing the clock on your PC and saving the document at the exact time you want?
posted by msalt at 1:10 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Caligula was only the third emperor! The empire went on for a *long* time after him.

If you want to make the Roman emperor analogy, pretty much anyone after 400 was a total incompetent propped up by distrusted outsiders and dedicated to building gold statues of themselves while the world burned around them. Just because Valentinian III gets less press than Caligula doesn't mean he wasn't just as bad in a lot of ways that analogize to Trump.

The bad news: Trump reminds me a lot more of Commodus, under whom things ran OK on bureaucratic autopilot for a little while as he sawed at the civic structure through both action and inaction, until the whole thing collapsed into a series of civil wars that lasted for decades and damned near destroyed the empire.

Should have known better than to make a Roman emperor analogy with this crowd. I surrender.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:13 PM on July 7, 2017 [39 favorites]


Veni. Vidi. MeFivici.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:17 PM on July 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


Okay, so she really is THAT dumb. And if she's not then she can play dumb and we'll all believe her because she really is THAT dumb.

I think her choices are either

a) Too dumb to breathe, or

b) Secret white nationalist.

I prefer to believe b, but either way she's a tool for them.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:21 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Copronymus: "If you want to make the Roman emperor analogy, pretty much anyone after 400 was a total incompetent propped up by distrusted outsiders and dedicated to building gold statues of themselves while the world burned around them. Just because Valentinian III gets less press than Caligula doesn't mean he wasn't just as bad in a lot of ways that analogize to Trump."

Oh, I don't know. Marjorian did his best.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:22 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


this Western Culture horseshit bothers me in particular

The same ones banging on about "western culture" this week were bitching about Shakespeare last week. If Donnie could give me a high school level summary of five highlights of "western culture," I'd eat my phone.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:25 PM on July 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


Trumpcare watch: Grassley says Cruz amendment looks like subterfuge, probably won't support.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:26 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


NSAID: The linked article doesn't even say what the 14 words from the speech are supposed to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words


Right, but I can't figure out why anyone, white supremacist or otherwise, linking to the article would use that phrase. None of the quote excerpts from 45's speech were 14 words in length, so assuming incompetence and not malice, as it were, where did "14" even come from?


and on further preview, from the Open Graph tags. Which came from where? This whole thing is breaking my head.

This is the part where I can mention that Sarah Palin played a part in my journey to HRC being the first Democratic presidential candidate I voted for - I grew up conservative, but when all the death panels junk started, I though "Wait a second...If health insurance has a cap, which given the concept of scarcity probably I supposhas to theoretically exist at some extreme, someone is going to be deciding when to deny services, and shouldn't we prefer that person to be a government worker, employed by the people, instead of a corporate employee answerable to shareholders??"

Thanks Sarah!

posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:28 PM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


Also, ima go out on a limb here and say that Romulus Augustulus is very underrated.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:29 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Cruz Amendment sounds like the title of one of Robert Ludlum's lesser works.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:30 PM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Right, but I can't figure out why anyone, white supremacist or otherwise, linking to the article would use that phrase. None of the quote excerpts from 45's speech were 14 words in length, so assuming incompetence and not malice, as it were, where did "14" even come from?

The connection is "defending Western civilization"; they don't care that there was no actual 14 word phrase in the speech. They want to advance white nationalism, not make an accurate report of what happened.
posted by thelonius at 1:31 PM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


To continue the unnecessary Emperor-analogy conversation, I'd like to submit: Domitian. Here's an extract from Suetonius. Anything sound familiar?

At the beginning of his reign he used to spend hours in seclusion every day, doing nothing but catch flies and stab them with a keenly-sharpened pen. [...] Becoming still more anxious every day, he lined the walls of the colonnades in which he used to walk with shiny stone, to be able to see in its brilliant surface the reflection of all that went on behind his back. [...] He was so sensitive about his baldness, that he regarded it as a personal insult if anyone else was twitted [!!] with that defect in jest or in earnest; [and wrote] a book [titled] "On the Care of the Hair." [...] He was incapable of exertion and seldom went about the city on foot, while on his campaigns and journeys he rarely rode on horseback, but was regularly carried in a litter. [...] During the whole of every gladiatorial show there always stood at his feet a small boy clad in scarlet, with an abnormally small head, with whom he used to talk a great deal, and sometimes seriously.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:33 PM on July 7, 2017 [36 favorites]


Domitian. Wasn't he the cabbage guy?
posted by orrnyereg at 1:40 PM on July 7, 2017


(I'm pretty sure Kushner is the small boy in scarlet with the abnormal head but am open to other suggestions) edit: aaaa jinx edeezy
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:40 PM on July 7, 2017


Diocletian was the one who grew cabbages in retirement.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:59 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I bet if we could get a photograph of the important people hanging out during the last days of Rome, Steve Bannon would be there grinning at the camera a la Jack in The Shining
posted by angrycat at 2:15 PM on July 7, 2017 [35 favorites]


Caligula 2.0
Just another reason why putting Trump in the title role of "Julius Caesar" was JUST PLAIN DUMB. A stage production of the "Caligula" movie would've been much more appropriate.

Meanwhile, the syndicated Doonesbury flashback to Trump's yacht, circa 1989, is just getting better and better. With the depictions of The Donald himself reminding us that his current hair color is 100% Fake Fur.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:17 PM on July 7, 2017


I did a thing. I'll admit it here. I watched Game of Thrones. All of it. Got a notice from HBO for it too. How else would I watch it. I abstained for this long, last season is about to start, I did what I did. May my data ever be deleted, I had my fun.

Point is, I just finished. I just finished watching the thing that's the message of the Hollywood machine. I saw what they mean.

We fight for our kingdom or we die. Values of "we" being "we". Debate that but it's every "we" you have in your book. Everything you've said on the internet, every "we" you meant when you opposed this bill or that, all of it.

Fuck the Republic, families and men and women and rights are at stake. I saw some art, I got inspired, and...things have to be done. Protest, write, call, whatever has to happen, I've been watching this thread too, and I notice the decay, the government is falling apart because of fanatics who want doom.

No one will save you but you. HBO knows that, George R. R. Martin doesn't care about this timeline either, so...

Let's fight out the right one for ourselves. By "ourselves" I mean the non-shit values for this timeline. I scuttled a 4th of July celebration at a bar for not donating profits to a Dem cause, with extra caustic rhetoric for welcoming Republicans to the celebrations. Profits were noticably reduced.

Cause your own change where you see it necessary.
posted by saysthis at 2:23 PM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


the Chinese tend to accept local rules and regulations where they go, rather than attempt to impose their own norms

From a ways upthread, but it bears challenging. This has not been the experience in Sri Lanka, whose agreements with China are viewed by analysts as a case study for OBOR:
under the agreement, “the airspace over the Chinese-held area would be exclusively controlled by China,” while there was “no record of the mandatory environmental impact and feasibility studies needed for such a project, nor was there any document showing the government had cleared it.”
There is pretty vocal resistance (sadly ineffectual, it seems) to the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) because of fears that similar situations could come to be.

Now, it's entirely possible that European governments have enough muscle to get their own way, but they certainly shouldn't be sanguine about it.
posted by bardophile at 2:24 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Angela Merkel has had a long day. First she had to say hello to that creepy American guy, and then she had to deal with Putin, who is such a joke (I mean, he comes with absolutely nothing and still expects she will listen to whatever nonsense he says). And then there are those confusing young guys who like elder, powerful women. How do you even deal with that?

Joke aside: Russia has nothing. Nothing at all. They are like Nigeria, but they expect to be respected as if they were the Sovjet Union which collapsed in 1991. Those of us who didn't grow up in the east block are confused by all the smoke and mirrors of the Russian regime, but Merkel is not having it, her eyes roll all the way round.
posted by mumimor at 2:26 PM on July 7, 2017 [43 favorites]


I was reading through the "Russian interference in the 2016 United States election" Wikipedia page (after reading about the Stasi and zersetzung and then Active Measures) and came across this thing, which I never knew before:

Apr. 19: Putin-linked think tank drew up plan to sway 2016 US election - documents

A second institute document, drafted in October and distributed in the same way, warned that Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton was likely to win the election. For that reason, it argued, it was better for Russia to end its pro-Trump propaganda and instead intensify its messaging about voter fraud to undermine the U.S. electoral system’s legitimacy and damage Clinton’s reputation in an effort to undermine her presidency, the seven officials said.

How did I miss this? Is this common knowledge amongst all of you? I thought Trump was just saying that shit, but there's a Russian think tank that drew up those plans?
posted by gucci mane at 2:33 PM on July 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Damn, this megathread test is gonna be a bitch.
posted by petebest at 2:34 PM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


awwww man!

There's a test?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:37 PM on July 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


The Alt-Right Branding War Has Torn the Movement in Two (via)
The phrase “alternative right” has been critiqued on several grounds: that it’s too vague; that it obscures the extent to which the movement is coterminous with the rest of the Republican base; that it’s a euphemism for white supremacy. The definition has shifted over time, both inside and outside the movement, such that, for a while, it was impossible to tell whether any two people who referred to the alt-right were referring to the same thing. During the Presidential campaign, the term came to denote several intersecting phenomena: anti-feminism, opposition to political correctness, online abuse, belligerent nihilism, conspiracy theories, inflammatory Internet memes. Some pro-Trump activists adopted this big-tent definition, allowing any youthful, “edgy” critique of establishment conservatism to be considered alt-right. But a core within the movement always insisted on a narrower conception of the alt-right, one that was inextricably linked with white separatism, and with Spencer specifically.

Now the boundaries are set. Spencer and his allies have won the branding war. They own the alt-right label; their right-wing opponents are aligning themselves against it, working to establish a parallel brand. It has become increasingly clear that this is not a mere rhetorical ploy but a distinction with a difference.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:38 PM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


mumimor: "Joke aside: Russia has nothing. Nothing at all. They are like Nigeria, but they expect to be respected as if they were the Sovjet Union which collapsed in 1991."

To be fair, in nominal GDP, Russia still ranks well above Nigeria. However, their actual position is ahead of Spain, Australia, and Mexico but behind Canada, S. Korea, and Brazil. So, overall not terrible but definitely not at the top of the league tables and certainly not at the level of some kind of dominant, world-spanning empire.
posted by mhum at 2:40 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


A stage production of the "Caligula" movie would've been much more appropriate.

Note to self: investigate Donnie's connections to Bob Guccione. Did he want a part?
posted by octobersurprise at 2:41 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yet another moment when reality outruns the snark in this very thread from a few hours ago:

Washington Post: Tillerson says Trump ‘pressed’ Putin on Russia’s hacking. The evidence suggests he didn’t press very hard.

[Russian Foreign Minister Sergei] Lavrov said that Trump accepted Putin's explanation that Russia didn't hack and even said Trump talked about how people in the United States were “exaggerating” the situation.

Those "people" are only the FBI, CIA, NSA, and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. I just ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:51 PM on July 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


Oh, and one more for the Making America Great Again files:

WaPo: At G-20, world aligns against Trump policies ranging from free trade to climate change

The growing international isolation of the United States under President Trump was starkly apparent Friday as the leaders of major world economies mounted a near-united opposition front against Washington on issues ranging from climate to free trade. ... The tensions were [...] a warning signal of Washington’s diminished clout.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:56 PM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


To be fair, in nominal GDP, Russia still ranks well above Nigeria.

Kind of, because Russia is the largest country in the world, with huge resources and a long history of science and industry, while Nigeria is a very large country in Africa with impressive ressources and a recent history of modern development.
I was trying to make some kind of joke, which is always difficult on the internet, but Russia is behind Brazil, India and Italy in economy. The reason I chose Nigeria is that Nigeria's economy is more similar to Russia's: entirely based on natural ressources and controlled by corrupt leaders. Brazil, India and Italy are also plagued by corruption and crime, but they at least have manufacturing and food production.
posted by mumimor at 2:56 PM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


I have a facebook acquaintance who only really likes music if it has been commercially successful. That's sort of how I imagine Trump would decide what music he likes, if he likes music.

I know this was a million years ago in thread-time, but...My brother once defended his liking Creed by saying "That guy wears a Rolex! His music has to be good."

Yeah...I don't know how he and I were produced by the same gene combinations either.
posted by threeturtles at 2:56 PM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Daily Beast: Trump Aides on Podesta Tweet: ‘No Idea What He Is Talking About’
The tweet baffled White House aides on the trip. "I have no idea what he's talking about,” one messaged The Daily Beast. Officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not cleared to discuss the bizarre tweet.

According to those present, the only world leader at the summit who was actively bringing up Podesta and “the DNC server” was the U.S. president.

“Trump himself brought it up” randomly in person while talking to staff, a senior official on the trip told The Daily Beast. Puzzled advisers nodded politely or ignored him as the president went down the rabbit hole of a controversy—his campaign’s potential involvement in or knowledge of Russian government hacking of email accounts owned by Podesta and the DNC—that has dogged the new administration since day one.
...
“What gave it away, [the president] not knowing the difference between the DNC and the Clinton campaign, or the idea that a dozen other heads of state don’t know the difference either?” one senior administration official remarked, casting doubt on Trump’s claim.
posted by zachlipton at 3:03 PM on July 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


> Joke aside: Russia has nothing. Nothing at all.

Russia has something. Russia has land. And if climate change is exactly the right level of bad, that land goes from being a vast icy waste to being the breadbasket of the world.

Russia also has a lot of coastline. Much of this coastline is frozen most of the year and opens onto an ocean that used to be frozen for all of the year. But if climate change is exactly bad enough, Russia's Arctic ports become a key shipping route to North America.

Putin knows that Russia wins climate change, and he's pretty open about knowing that Russia wins climate change.

Scheming to win climate change is (of course) a stupid and evil and risky and murderous thing to do. But because (as observed upthread) Russia has several severe disadvantages that are long-term threatening its position as a world power, Putin has chosen to try to do the high-risk high-reward play of trying to produce exactly enough climate change to make the world dependent on Russia.

To people who aren't wicked or insane, the risks (for example, the risk of the clathrate gun ending all life on Earth) seem disproportionate to the reward (one country having its geopolitical fortunes reversed), especially when you consider that even the best-case scenario still results in the deaths of billions of people.

But national leaders tend to be wicked, insane, or both. So...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:03 PM on July 7, 2017 [39 favorites]


Tillerson says Trump ‘pressed’ Putin on Russia’s hacking.

Trump: "HEY! Did you guys hack our elections?
Putin: "No way! We'd never do that to you."

Ten minutes later:

Trump: {After awkward silence, non-sequitur) "Do you PROMISE you didn't hack us?"
Putin: "I swear to Gob."
Trump: "Good, I didn't think so but I had to ask or everybody would yell at me. You're not mad at me, are you?"
posted by msalt at 3:04 PM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


awwww man!

There's a test?

posted by ArgentCorvid at 5:37 PM on July 7

Ah jeeez, AgentCorvid, haven't you been taking notes? Ugh better start with some flash cards and be prepared to cram all night.

TIL: That Angela Merkel probably speaks Russian. I actually did not know that she grew up in E. Berlin (Her father moved the family there in 1954-- go figure) and that Russian was usually part of the curriculum. The more I know about her the more intriguing I find her. It breaks my heart that we do not value intelligent, well-educated leaders with a bias against Fascism.

While the big news of the day was Putin/Trump let us not overlook the Trump/Pena Nieto

Bloomberg Trump and Pena Nieto Don’t Discuss Who Will Pay for the Wall
President Donald Trump said Friday that Mexico should “absolutely” pay for his proposed border wall, a key part of his election campaign.

But Trump never raised the issue in a sit-down with Mexico’s president on the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Germany, just like he didn’t when he visited Mexico City during the presidential campaign last year.

That omission was confirmed by Mexican officials and the White House’s own statement after the meeting, which mentioned trade, drug trafficking and the political crisis in Venezuela but was silent on the border wall.[...]

"We’ve all had a very successful day and a very interesting day. It’s great to be with my friend, the president of Mexico," Trump said as he and Pena Nieto began the meeting. "We’re negotiating Nafta and some other things with Mexico. Let’s see how it all turns out. But I think we’ve made very good progress."
There he goes again with the "my friend" shit as though we send him to these summits to make friends. No. Maybe he simply could not remember the man's name? At least this time he got the office right.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:11 PM on July 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: What the ethics chief really wanted to say in his resignation letter
Listen, I have to resign for my own mental health, because I am honestly starting to wonder if I am invisible.

Now that I am leaving, let me ask: Have you gotten any of the warnings about disclosures and conflicts of interest that I have sent for the past numerous months? It seems like you have, and it certainly looked like they had gone through, but — nothing. I go into rooms and clear my throat pointedly and no one even looks up from signing a directive to make sure that our desire to protect our drinking water does not interfere with making golf courses great again.

Most days I feel like I am dropping a copy of the emoluments clause into a dark deep black hole from which nothing, not even radiation, can escape.

Sometimes I send an email with very pointed italics saying ‘this doesn’t seem okay’ but — not even crickets. I think the crickets are dead. I go home and I am sometimes startled when people respond to my voice. Sometimes cats look right through me.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:12 PM on July 7, 2017 [46 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** Healthcare:
-- AARP is up with anti-BCRA ads in AK, CO, NV, OH, WV.
-- BCRA is the worst polling bill since at least 1990.
** Kobach commission:
-- Detailed look on current state responses to data request.
-- Data would kept on White House computers under supervision of VP's staff (seems safe!).
-- More on laws the commission may be violating. We might see a temporary restraining order in the next few days based on an EPIC lawsuit.
** 2018 races:
-- Cook Political: Every sign points to a Dem House wave, but it's all so early, Cook isn't willing to commit yet. That said, they're still moving ratings in 10 districts, all in Dems' favor.
-- Prospective NV Sen candidate Jacky Rosen has added the endorsement of Emily's List in her quest to win Heller's seat. Rep. Dina Titus is also interested, but may well shy away in the wake of all these endorsements.
-- We've all thought Sen Orrin Hatch was sure to run again in UT, but he's making at least some "maybe not" noises (sigh, blaming his wife).
posted by Chrysostom at 3:13 PM on July 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


We've all thought Sen Orrin Hatch was sure to run again in UT, but he's making at least some "maybe not" noises (sigh, blaming his wife)

Senator Egg McMuffin?
posted by Justinian at 3:17 PM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ha, no. I'll eat five Egg McMuffins if that happens.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:18 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


mumimor: "The reason I chose Nigeria is that Nigeria's economy is more similar to Russia's"

Oh, I see. That's totally fair.
posted by mhum at 3:21 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


And again National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Just how manly was that Trump-Putin summit?
Instead of stopping to say, well, this seems like a TERRIBLE WASTE OF EFFORT FOR ALL CONCERNED, I think it is important that we answer it on their terms. So let us spend time studying their body language and draw conclusions from it. After all, it is not as though we are getting enough information to do much else.

Thus, I have created an infallible point system to determine once and for all how masculine this encounter was.
PUNCTUATION IS WEAK AND FEMININE AND I THEREFORE CAST IT ASIDE

BEFORE THE MEETING:
they shook hands normally
-300 points
this was obviously a “beta” gesture, to place one hand soft and supine in the hand of another!
and furthermore their hands were moist and not made of PLUTONIUM

they sat in chairs
-800 points
men do not sit on soft CHAIRS! they tear a tree up, roots and all, and smite it against the ground so that all the birds fall from their nests and die, and then they sit upon the barren earth that is left behind
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:22 PM on July 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


Russia has something. Russia has land. And if climate change is exactly the right level of bad, that land goes from being a vast icy waste to being the breadbasket of the world.

Nah, even if the permafrost melts, Siberia won't be arable land for generations, if ever. For many years, the main thing melting permafrost will do is release methane gasses, accelerating global warming, which will be a huge problem throughout Russia. Also melting permafrost will destroy all of Siberia's infrastructure which is built on top of the permafrost.
The North-East Passage is a thing, but so is the North-West Passage, and for Asian-American trade neither are relevant. The North-East Passage is mostly relevant for Euro-Asia trade, and both these regions have well developed shipping industries. They may pay fees to go north rather than south, or over the OBOR routes, but fees won't save Russian economy.

The main danger Russia poses to the world is that they are a desperate, failing nation with nuclear arms who may choose regional war draped in nationalistic pathos as a means to distract from national catastrophes like bankruptcy or hunger or huge unemployment. This is not a small threat and their neighbors including me should take it seriously. But there is also no reason to fear them.
posted by mumimor at 3:25 PM on July 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


Is it Egg McMuffins, or Eggs McMuffin?
posted by Existential Dread at 3:30 PM on July 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


The methane thing is a world ender, but Russia still *thinks* it can win global warming. In their own way they are as delusional as the flat-out deniers.
posted by Artw at 3:37 PM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


And, I mean, if the world switches to solar and wind, who is Russia gonna sell its oil to? And if it can't sell its oil, how can it sustain its economy?

It's not just the effects of climate change that might be good for Russia. Russia's present day economy depends on one of the causes of climate change.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:46 PM on July 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Business Insider Trump remains Russia's hope': How Russian media reported Trump and Putin's first meeting
State-owned RIA Novosti wrote that the meeting would improve US-Russia relations, which they said Trump was seriously committed to building. In recent weeks, the narrative that Trump is stilted in his desire to build a stronger connection with Russia has been coming up repeatedly in Russian media.

"Pressure from the anti-Russian American establishment, which unfairly accuses the Russian Federation of interfering in its presidential elections and which Trump is forced to grapple with, is partly to blame," the article said. [...]

"Trump remains Russia's hope," wrote journalist Andrei Kolesnikov in Forbes Russia. Still, he added that it was unwise for anyone to expect anything more than "hand-shaking" to come from such a formal and closely watched meeting.
Imagine thinking that Trump is your best hope. I'm still a little unclear as to how Russia thinks they are going to benefit from a Putin-Trump friendship. Are the sanctions that big a deal to the citizenry? I was under the assumption it is more about keeping money out of the pockets of the oligarchs. But to the average person sitting at home, doe they think that Trump will make their lives improve somehow?

WaPo Tillerson says Trump ‘pressed’ Putin on Russia’s hacking. The evidence suggests he didn’t press very hard.
“The president opened his meeting with President Putin by raising the concerns of the American people regarding Russian interference in the 2016 election,” Tillerson told reporters. “They had a very robust and lengthy exchange on the subject. The president pressed President Putin on more than one occasion regarding Russian involvement.”[...]

But then Tillerson said repeatedly that the meeting was about the future and not the past. “But I think what the two presidents — I think rightly — focused on is how we move forward,” he said. Later, he would add that Putin's contention that Russian didn't hack represented an “intractable disagreement” and said, “There was not a lot of re-litigating things from the past.”

That sure doesn't sound like a ton of pressing. Indeed, it kind of sounds like Trump did bring it up, Putin denied it, and then they largely “moved forward” without “re-litigating” the past. Tillerson's comments sure seem to be accepting of the fact that there was no progress on that front.
Well I certainly didn't expect Trump to beat Putin over the head with accusations. I'm surprised he even brought it up. I still don't know what they talked about for 2hours and 16 minutes.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:02 PM on July 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


Politico Trump and Putin have 'robust' talk about election interference
The meeting between the two ran more than four times as long as the 30 minutes it had been scheduled for, despite the interruptions of aides—and was interrupted by First Lady Melania Trump, who Tillerson said made a fruitless bid to break up the meeting between Putin and her husband.

“I think they sent the First Lady in to get us to stop, and that didn’t work,” Tillerson joked. “We went another hour after she came in to see us.”

“There was such a level of exchange and engagement, neither of them wanted to stop,” Tillerson said. “There was so much to talk about… Just about everything got touched on.”[...]

“President Putin and I have been discussing various things, and I think it’s going very well. We’ve had some very, very good talks. We are going to have a talk now and obviously that will continue,” Trump said as photographers snapped photos of the two presidents, whose meeting took place at the G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany. “But we look forward to a lot of very positive things happening for Russia, for the United States and for everybody concerned, and it’s an honor to be with you.”
[my bold]

Gee, nice of you to think about the interests of America, pal, even if we do come in second to Russia.

And how weird is the whole "send in Melania" thing? His aides are so afraid of him that somebody like McMasters can't just knock politely and remind Trump he has other engagements and meetings scheduled?

BuzzFeed Putin And Trump Attended The Same Meeting, But Reported Different Conversations
According to Lavrov, Trump said that "he heard the clear statements of President Putin about this being untrue, that the Russian leadership did not interfere in the election and that he accepts these statements."

"President Trump said that this campaign has already taken on a rather strange character because over the many months that these accusations have been made, not a single fact has been presented," Lavrov said, according to MacFarquhar.
"A rather strange character" Yes, and that strange character is Trump himself.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:16 PM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm still a little unclear as to how Russia thinks they are going to benefit from a Putin-Trump friendship.

By overnight changing US policy from countering Russian geopolitical scheming to abetting it. No fear of US retaliation for further aggressive expansion in Ukraine and the Baltics. Switching US policy from opposing their puppet Assad regime to targeting Assad's enemies we formerly backed. Turning US policy from checking Russia in the Middle East to helping sow dissent between our former allies. Complete freedom to coordinate with Iran. For the price of probably less than one Russian navy destroyer worth of cyber attacks Putin bought himself back door de facto control of the US military for as long as the military continues to answer to the civilian command structure, which is utterly compromised and beholden to Putin. Benefits seem pretty clear.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:18 PM on July 7, 2017 [30 favorites]


"But we look forward to a lot of very positive things happening for Russia, for the United States and for everybody concerned"

New national slogan: coined
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:22 PM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


WaPo KKK marchers say they will be armed Saturday at Charlottesville rally
It’s an open-carry state, so our members will be armed,” said James Moore, a member of the Loyal White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, which is headquartered in Pelham, N.C., near the Virginia border. Moore said that if members are attacked, they will defend themselves.

The KKK is protesting the Charlottesville City Council’s decision this year to remove a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from a public park and rename that park. Once called Lee Park, it is now Emancipation Park. A court injunction has halted the statue’s removal until a November hearing. On Thursday, a “Confederate Heroes” plaque attached to the statue was removed by city workers.
Funny, I guess I have always assumed that KKK members were always armed-- they just don't want to get into a battle where they might be hurt. These guys aren't trained militia, after all, they are just ordinary racists who run Funeral Homes, sell real estate, and work at WalMart.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:29 PM on July 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Well, if Putin wasn't previously pulling Trump's strings, that two-hour meeting was long enough for The Donald to be given complete marching orders even HE could understand.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:32 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


NASA weighs in to explain that it's ok to touch things that say Critical Space Flight Hardware "DO NOT TOUCH," at least if you have power over their budget.
posted by zachlipton at 4:42 PM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


And I just learned that cartoonist/comicker Tom Richmond (who does nearly all the MAD Magazine parody features these days) is doing a Caricature Workshop today through Sunday... in Munich. I know, the opposite end of Germany from Hamburg, but still close enough to the G20 that you gotta KNOW what his students are going to be doing for their final projects. The next generation of Euro-Political Cartoonists is born today!!
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:44 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Women's Media Center It’s been a ‘heartless’ week for women’s health care
Lawmakers in Missouri set the tone for a dark week in health care reform for women. On Tuesday, the House sent a bill to the state Senate that, if passed, will infringe on the rights of women seeking abortions, and hamper the work of abortion providers.

The most alarming amendment to the bill, backed by Republicans, aims to roll back a St. Louis ordinance that protects women from housing and employment discrimination based on whether they use birth control, have an abortion, or are pregnant. In other words, if the bill succeeds, Missouri women could be fired for making any of these constitutionally protected choices. (The state’s full Senate is expected to consider the bill after July 4.)
Unbelievable. In this day and age that legislators could come up with a law allowing for discrimination against pregnant women or women on BC or women who have had an abortion-- which pretty much covers most women of child-birthing age. What possible reason do the men of Missouri have for doing this, other than an attempt to control women? Can there be any reason on earth for not employing a woman on BC? Well other than the insanity of Far Right Christian Values which thinks that BC is an abortifactant.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:49 PM on July 7, 2017 [54 favorites]


Sounds like -- we want to be able to fire our female employees who have sex... but we most likely won't fire the men.
posted by puddledork at 4:53 PM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Now if Palin had tweeted "Trump Gives Speech to the People of Poland, Says 11 Words That Leave Americans Stunned", they would've obviously been "Longing, rusted, furnace, daybreak, seventeen, benign, nine, homecoming, one, freight car. "
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:53 PM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's damn near close to saying it is fine not to rent to or employ any woman.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:54 PM on July 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


Lawmakers in Missouri set the tone for a dark week in health care reform for women

Hey, Oregon has your back. We just passed a bill mandating private insurance coverage for not only prenatal care and contraception but also abortions. Will our governor sign it? Our female, openly bisexual, Democratic governor? Yeah, she will.

And people here wonder why so many folks keep moving to Portland when rents are high.
posted by msalt at 4:55 PM on July 7, 2017 [41 favorites]




Sorry to keep talking about it but I am just stunned by this bill. I just keep thinking that many (if not most) married women are on some form of birth control or are pregnant. So that means you can lose your job. And the idea that someone could refuse to rent to a woman who as had an abortion? Sure, there are privacy laws but I've heard too many stories about women being photographed entering PP. Is it possible this law could stand up to to a lawsuit? It seems like a bad omen of worse things to come.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:01 PM on July 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


There's no way the law could stand. BC is used to treat medical conditions as well as to prevent pregnancy. Legislating discrimination on the basis of what medical treatment you receive MUST be protected under the ADA. Not to mention how does this not directly interfere with HIPAA privacy regulations? Who is going to be giving these employers and landlords this information. These legislators are batshit insane.
posted by threeturtles at 5:25 PM on July 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Putin's been speaking in Russian the whole time and Trump's still nodding along pretending he understands.

Putin speaks English. But you're still right about the other guy.
posted by njohnson23 at 5:25 PM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Thinking more about it, this is the standard GOP state legislator handbook: pass blatantly discriminatory legislation that everyone with an ounce of sense knows will be overturned by the courts. But it achieves their goals of looking busy, gaining media coverage, shifting the conversation away from "why can't the streets be fixed and public services fully funded" and costs huge amounts of everyone's time and money.

They are essentially DDOS attacks on the institutions of government to keep government from actually functioning.
posted by threeturtles at 5:30 PM on July 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


They are essentially DDOS attacks on the institutions of government to keep government from actually functioning.

No. They're bullets being loaded into a gun to be fired the second Kennedy retires.
posted by Talez at 5:33 PM on July 7, 2017 [60 favorites]


There's no way the law could stand.

My understanding from the article would be that they are repealing a law or parts of a law, not enacting one?
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 5:37 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Existential Dread: "Is it Egg McMuffins, or Eggs McMuffin?"

Eggi McMuffodes.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:42 PM on July 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


"It’s great to be with my friend, the president of Mexico,"

I'm sure Justin from Canada was envious that he wasn't invited to the meeting.
posted by greermahoney at 5:57 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


No. They're bullets being loaded into a gun to be fired the second Kennedy retires.

Take all my favorites. I used to be in the camp that Republican anti-abortion bills were just playing to the wedge issue, but no longer. They believe this shit. All of it. Personhood amendments, bathroom bills, total disenfranchizement of Democratic contingencies, full repeal of Roe, complete halt of all drug war reform and sentencing reform, everything you read and think "surely they don't really believe that, it's just a test case or a floater or a play to the base". No. Republicans would pass every last Rush and Hannity wet dream into the Constitution tomorrow if they thought they could. They want a White Nationalist totalitarian Christian Dominion State. That's the goal. It always has been. That's why they're giddily lining up behind the leader of the world white White Power movement, Putin. Every hard right fascist policy is only waiting on one more roadblock to die off and be replace with another Gorsuch rubber stamp for fascism, and if we're thinking John Roberts is going to save us when Kennedy is gone, well, he won't.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:58 PM on July 7, 2017 [88 favorites]


TIL: That Angela Merkel probably speaks Russian. I actually did not know that she grew up in E. Berlin (Her father moved the family there in 1954-- go figure) and that Russian was usually part of the curriculum. The more I know about her the more intriguing I find her. It breaks my heart that we do not value intelligent, well-educated leaders with a bias against Fascism.

Angela Merkel speaks fluent Russian. And Vladimir Putin speaks fluent German. I read somewhere that, up until Crimea, they used to chat on the phone once a week.
posted by um at 6:05 PM on July 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


In their capacity as heads of state I mean.
posted by um at 6:06 PM on July 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


Love this comment and wish I could favorite it a million times, but the psych nerd in me has to point out Trump absolutely can't have imposter syndrome, as that's not a narcissistic pathology, but a deep seated feeling of inadequacy despite actually being competent and deserving. It's the opposite of Dunning-Kreuger, and there's absolutely no way Trump or any other narcissist doubts themselves that much.

That said, all the rest was really well said.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:15 PM on July 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


WaPo; Senate GOP and White House plan final, urgent blitz to pass health-care law
Aware that the next 14 days probably represent their last chance to salvage their flagging endeavor, President Trump, Vice President Pence and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) intend to single out individual senators and escalate a broad defense of the evolving proposal, according to Republicans familiar with their plans.

When Trump returns from Europe, he plans to counter the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office’s analysis of the legislation — which shows that 22 million fewer people would have insurance coverage by 2026 than under the current law — with figures and analyses from conservative groups and Republicans that show more benefits and less disruption, should the bill pass, according to a White House official familiar with the strategy.
Next week would be a good time to make sure you're calling your Senators.
posted by zachlipton at 6:56 PM on July 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


In their capacity as heads of state I mean.

Well, of course, what with Obama listening...
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 7:04 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


it's ok to touch things that say Critical Space Flight Hardware

Hope someone told him it was ok to touch before he did it - spacecraft cleanliness requirements are no joke and that could have cost them thousands of dollars to re-clean. They seem to be saying they hadn't cleaned it yet, which makes sense. Once you've done that, you just don't leave it out where it can BE messed up.

Still, he should have been smart enough to make them take the sign off first. Touching things that say do not touch just makes you look like a big entitled asshole, whatever the real story, and there were obviously photographers around. I mean, I'm no expert and I'm only going by the photo, and *I* think he's an entitled asshole.

(I admit I already thought that though, so.)
posted by ctmf at 7:14 PM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


It seems to me that if something is so clean you have to reclean the whole thing if someone touches it you're not going to tape a paper sign to it. Since that touches it.
posted by Justinian at 7:20 PM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


How long until Trump leaves?

Barring anything unusual, 1,292 days and 33 minutes.
posted by petebest at 7:26 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


1,292 days and 33 minutes.

I just swallowed my gum.
posted by MrVisible at 7:31 PM on July 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


It seems to me that if you've taken the trouble to put a "do not touch" sign on your stuff, even if your reason for doing so isn't all that compelling, somebody who touches your stuff anyway is an idiot, an asshole, or both. If that guy's your boss, and later you find yourself explaining to everybody how his idiot behavior was really totally fine, then he's definitely an asshole. To my mind, the fact that NASA is out there spinning on Pence's behalf just means he did at least two inappropriate things here.
posted by dirge at 7:31 PM on July 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


To my mind, the fact that NASA is out there spinning on Pence's behalf

That Pence was an idiot is not news, lolmeme, okay it gets 15 minutes, but the slobbery "please spit on me again kind good sir" reply was dispiriting.

And now I'm questioning the veracity of their gay frog Mars sex colony trade council denials.
posted by petebest at 7:44 PM on July 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


They're clean signs Justinion
posted by ctmf at 7:44 PM on July 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


At least Pence didn't shoot anybody in the face and then make them apologize... yet.
posted by Justinian at 7:47 PM on July 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


I have to hand it to whatever Pence staffer came up with his "Marco made me do it"
joke response, though. That's pretty amusing.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:52 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


And again National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo:

I wish I had the optimism to read the WaPo's Democracy Dies In Darkness in the The Price Of Freedom cautionary sense, and not the The World Ends In Fire sense.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:26 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I just lost a close friend of many years because I said I was against Nazis and he said he was for them as long as they worked for Trump. REELING.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:30 PM on July 7, 2017 [112 favorites]


I wish I had the optimism to read the WaPo's Democracy Dies In Darkness in the The Price Of Freedom cautionary sense

Totally agree. I mean, they're the professional writers I guess but that struck me wrong from the start and it's not wearing well.

Shining a Light on Democracy or
Freedom Requires Journalism or
You'll End Up in Sing-Sing Geddes! Do You Hear Me?! Sing-Sing!

Or, y'know, something on the brighter side.
posted by petebest at 8:35 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have to hand it to whatever Pence staffer came up with his "Marco made me do it"
joke response, though. That's pretty amusing.


And here's me thinking conservatives believed in individual responsibility.
posted by vac2003 at 8:40 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


This is just me, but I'd be happy if I didn't have anyone tell me what we should and should not be spending our time discussing.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:43 PM on July 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


That's rough Eyebrows. Sorry that happened to you.
posted by Golem XIV at 8:49 PM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


WaPo; Senate GOP and White House plan final, urgent blitz to pass health-care law

$20 says the mandate will take a bullet to the brain in the next two weeks even if the rest of Obamacare doesn't. I'm sure McConnell has a bill in his back pocket that guts the mandate and I know if he can't get his shithead squadron to agree he will ram a mandate repeal through.
posted by Talez at 8:56 PM on July 7, 2017


Just another reason why putting Trump in the title role of "Julius Caesar" was JUST PLAIN DUMB. A stage production of the "Caligula" movie would've been much more appropriate.

Thanks for putting the mental image of Trump fisting some hapless bridegroom while shouting "U-S-A!" into my head.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:00 PM on July 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


there are several distinct email-related stories surrounding the Democratic side of the 2016 election: Clinton's private email server, the DNC hack, [the DSCC hack], and the successful spear-phishing of Podesta's gmail account.

Reportedly Republicans were widely hacked as well, but Russia just didn't release those. State Department emails were hacked and released. Colin Powell's emails were hacked and released. Snowden and Manning hacked thousands of documents and emails from the CIA, military and State Dept. The friggin NSA's very hacking tools were hacked and released.

The soul-crushing irony is that for all the huffing and puffing about how she risked national security, it appears that Hillary's private server was the only repository of data in Washington that was NOT hacked. Russia got everything butter emails.
posted by msalt at 9:01 PM on July 7, 2017 [51 favorites]


It's almost like the emails were bullshit the entire time. Maybe someone should tell the New York Times.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:11 PM on July 7, 2017 [35 favorites]


The friggin NSA's very hacking tools were hacked and released.

This in particular has me spooked for upcoming elections, and more generally for American security and infrastructure hacking targets.

This was already a big part of the deal with the gravity of the Russian hacking. Sure we'd love to dump Trump too, but it's a much bigger problem, and yet Trump makes it all about him, so the GOP won't dare address it in any kind of meaningful way. And now the arsenal for state-sponsored hackers just got a lot bigger with the leaked NSA stuff.
posted by p3t3 at 9:13 PM on July 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I wish I had the optimism to read the WaPo's Democracy Dies In Darkness in the The Price Of Freedom cautionary sense, and not the The World Ends In Fire sense.

I concur -- it sounds way more like a national status report than an answer to "Why do we need newspapers?"
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:28 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


WaPo: Trump urges dismissal of former ‘Apprentice’ contestant’s lawsuit
Kasowitz also argued that Zervos’ complaint should be dismissed because her original allegations against Trump were not true and, in addition, because Trump’s campaign-trail statements were protected by the First Amendment. A certain level of hyperbole is to be expected in the heat of a political campaign, he wrote, and such statements are legally protected speech.

During the campaign, Trump said the women who accused against him of inappropriately touching them were putting forward “made-up stories and lies” and “telling totally false stories.” Kasowitz argued those statements and others could not be considered defamatory but instead were “nothing more than heated campaign rhetoric designed to persuade the public audience that Mr. Trump should be elected president irrespective of what the media and his opponents had claimed over his 18-month campaign.”

Eleven women came forward to accuse Trump of touching, groping or kissing them without their permission in the final weeks of the campaign, after video emerged of Trump bragging about sexually assaulting women on an “Access Hollywood” appearance in 2005.
Wait. So the President who believes every negative thing people say about him is a completely unjustified massive conspiracy is arguing in court that he can say whatever he wants about other people?
posted by zachlipton at 9:32 PM on July 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


...because he is America's Most Special Snowflake, and was for decades before anybody actually voted for him.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:40 PM on July 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


If you want a dead ringer for Trump from history, it's Benvenuto Cellini. His book is full to the brim with bluster, absolutely non-stop self-promotion; great enthusiasm for violence again mixed with a healthy dose of self aggrandizment, not a glimmer of empathy, misoginy; he tried to write his autobio, found it impossible to do for him, and settled on dictating the whole thing.

On the other hand, he was a great fan of Michelangelo, showing good discernment, and did some good craftsmanship and at least one great sculpture.
posted by rainy at 10:29 PM on July 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I need to tap the collective intelligence for a sec, I just got online and I saw this Qatar airways ad What? The ban on electronic devices is gone now?
posted by cendawanita at 11:21 PM on July 7, 2017


The electronics ban is gone selectively. Various airlines have upgraded their security practices to satisfy the secret whims of DHS, and Qatar is one of those. The ME3 carriers and Turkish have been cleared, Saudia and Royal Air Maroc are expected to be ok next week, while Kuwait, Egypt, and Jordan are still subject to the ban.
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 PM on July 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


PSA: Canada didn't ban any electronic anything, despite receiving an advisory.

Electronics ban was bullshit,yo.
posted by Yowser at 11:38 PM on July 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


But for a president of the United States it still counts as a notable, even shocking departure. A president’s role when traveling has, until now, been to speak for the American idea.

Well, the man's whole modus operandi is the self-plug, but that seems a bit rich.
posted by progosk at 11:58 PM on July 7, 2017


Also: I suddenly remembered a moment of cognitive dissonance I had, learning to be an american kid, when I first encountered the word "caucasian". Coming from Europe, that ethnicity was even a category was already novel, and then that "white" would not do, was interesting in itself; but the American euphemism of choice seemed strangely exotic - you choose to trace something "essential" back to the Caucasus? (My dissonance was compounded by the anti-ruskie rhetoric that was still diffuse in the early 80's.)

Is it at all possible that Donnie, too, got stuck on that word when he had to look it up in the dictionary for school? And that it lodged itself inextricably, and slowly suffused itself into a Weltanschauung that he now gets to actually live out?
posted by progosk at 1:00 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is it at all possible that Donnie, too, got stuck on that word when he had to look it up in the dictionary for school?

I think this hypothetical rests on a premise which is sort of unlikely.
posted by mightygodking at 1:08 AM on July 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


I found Eyebrow McGee's comment so WTF that, making the assumption that this was not just a crazy person, I tried imagining where such a response could come from. And here I'm influenced I think by something Josh Marshall wrote recently, about how domination is sort of the name of the game here. I mean, that's kind of a human thing, I've been in plenty of competitive situations where winning feels really good.

I mean, that's the only thing I can think of. That it's sort of, if you're on our team, if you're supporting our values, then any well you genocide you do, hey, we've done our share, we're no shrinking critical violets here.

Still how people could have seen a Holocaust documentary or two would be all, okay, I'm going to associate myself with that, but I'm deep in my liberal bubble here.
posted by angrycat at 3:05 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Maybe the most curious incident from the G20 extravagaplooza was the group photo - there is an AP video of the process. Merkel is front and center, (as host) and the rest plays out accordingly (to time in office.) Notable is Macron shuffling through the entire group so that's he stands next to Trump, and then chats him up on the way out. Chats with the guy of his own volition(!). Macron has a plan, methinks, or he lost 'rock paper scissors' with Merkel and now he gets to deal with the Orange menace... the meeting July 14 will probably be telling - will Macron serve overcooked steak with ketchup?
posted by From Bklyn at 3:11 AM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe the most curious incident from the G20 extravagaplooza was the group photo

That, or the dining arrangements?

G20 dinner diplomacy... President Trump sits next to Juliana Awada, the wife of Argentina’s president, while Melania Trump sits next to Vladimir Putin.
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:37 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


This morning during the G20 meeting, DJT left for bilateral meetings and Ivanka took his place. She is sitting at the table next to Theresa May.

I know the family trait is shamelessness, but I hope that she feels a little bit out of place. Not likely, I know.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:08 AM on July 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


This morning during the G20 meeting, DJT left for bilateral meetings and Ivanka took his place. She is sitting at the table next to Theresa May.

Really? The evens…
posted by mumimor at 5:16 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


This morning during the G20 meeting, DJT left for bilateral meetings and Ivanka took his place.

You gotta feel for her: what an awkward place to stay out of politics.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:16 AM on July 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


Does anyone know what bilateral meetings?
posted by mumimor at 5:19 AM on July 8, 2017


I will never stop hating the Trump family for their incredible hubris in believing that they can literally go from being worthless trust fund trash to running the world just because they're rich. I mean, even Reagan would have sent the VP or an advisor, not Nancy or Ron Jr.
posted by Frowner at 5:22 AM on July 8, 2017 [90 favorites]


It's almost like the emails were bullshit the entire time. Maybe someone should tell the New York Times.

Liz Spayd has heard your plea, and has found it wanting. Begone, reader.
posted by petebest at 5:24 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


@Alec Luhn"These are the ones that insulted you?" Putin asked Trump, gesturing at the journalists being ushered out of the room. Chuckles all around

Last night I was looking for this incident in all the American news reports, could not find it. This is a translation of Russian press coverage. If it's true, it is quite chilling coming from Amanda who routinely kills journalists.

@Jennifer Jacobs: TRUMP SATURDAY:
-UK's Theresa May
-G-20 mtgs
-Indonesia's Joko Widodo
-Singapore's Lee Hsien Loong
-Japan's Abe
-China's Xi
-fly to DC.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:34 AM on July 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


GOP pessimism rising on ObamaCare repeal (Jordain Carney / The Hill)

Keep the pressure up on your Senators. It's working.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:35 AM on July 8, 2017 [30 favorites]



Ivanka sits in for Trump at G20
(Agence France-Presse)

For a moment at the G20 summit on Saturday the United States was represented by another Trump, when the president's daughter Ivanka took a seat at the table of world leaders.

The 35-year-old former fashion model sat around the table with Xi Jinping, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Angela Merkel and Theresa May, diplomats and the White House confirmed.

The incident fuelled long-standing allegations of nepotism against the US leader, who has put family members in top White House positions.

A White House official told AFP that Ivanka had been at the back of the room but "briefly joined the main table when the president had to step out."

That occurred when "the president of the World Bank started talking as the topic involved areas such as African development -- areas that will benefit from the facility just announced by the World Bank."

The official emphasised that "when other leaders stepped out, their seats were also briefly filled by others."

But Trump's already vociferous detractors were enraged.


Quite the POV there, France-Presse.

Btw, Total coincidence that the topic was helping Africa. Look he just wanted to be available in case Mr. Putin was walking around, okay? COLLUSION IS NOT A CRIME for some reason, okay.
posted by petebest at 5:38 AM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]




@Alec Luhn"These are the ones that insulted you?" Putin asked Trump, gesturing at the journalists being ushered out of the room. Chuckles all around

Daaaamn Pootz, that's restaurant-quality lemonshade there.

"@SomeJourno: Putin grabbed Trumps hands and began slapping Trump's face with them. 'Why are you hitting yourself? Why are you hitting yourself with these tiny ineffectual hands?!' He said. Chuckles all around." [/you know its true on some level]
posted by petebest at 5:44 AM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Audience groans as Ivanka Trump defends father at G20 women’s summit (Guardian, video)

Ivanka Trump defends her father’s attitude to women at the G20 women’s summit in Berlin on Tuesday. Some members of the audience groaned as she spoke of the US president being a ‘tremendous champion of supporting families and enabling them to thrive’ and blamed the media for publicising his public denigration of women in the past

Oooooh that lousy media
posted by petebest at 5:57 AM on July 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


GOP pessimism rising on ObamaCare repeal (Jordain Carney / The Hill)

Keep the pressure up on your Senators. It's working.


I marched in the Fourth of July parade the other day with our local "Medicare for All" organization. Among the talking points we yelled was "Call Todd Young!", and as it happened, one of Senator Young's senior staff was in the crowd, very close to the street (Young, of course, was far too cowardly to make the five-mile trip from his home to face his constituents in the parade himself).

I'm not naive enough to think Young's vote on the health care bill won't be in lockstep with McConnell's bidding like always, but it was somewhat satisfying to imagine his staffer telling him there were literally people marching on the Fourth against the bill, telling thousands of Joe and Jane Taxpayers specifically to call his office. To a much warmer reception by the crowd than I would have ever imagined in red-state Indiana.
posted by Rykey at 5:59 AM on July 8, 2017 [36 favorites]


G20 women’s summit in Berlin on Tuesday.

Not this Tuesday just gone, however. It's another Tuesday. Let's see... Tuesday 25 April 2017.
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:08 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


If it's true, it is quite chilling coming from Amanda who routinely kills journalists.

I know, Amanda is such a bitch, right?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:08 AM on July 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Audience groans as Ivanka Trump defends father at G20 women’s summit (Guardian, video)

That happened in Berlin, not Hamburg. And it was two months ago.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:09 AM on July 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


To a much warmer reception by the crowd than I would have ever imagined in red-state Indiana.

Again, red states are just a different shade of purple than the blue states. We're not an undifferentiated sea here.

And nobody likes it when you try to sicken and kill their family members.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:10 AM on July 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


That happened in Berlin, not Hamburg. And it was two months ago.

D'oh. Mea culpa. The articles - they were so close together . . . it was dark . . I didn't have enough money for cabfare . .
posted by petebest at 6:13 AM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


If it's true, it is quite chilling coming from Amanda who routinely kills journalists.


Damn, this Amanda chick is hardcore
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:13 AM on July 8, 2017 [23 favorites]


I know I said I was gonna swear off Atlantic think pieces, but I'd be interested in reactions to this: Where the Left Went Wrong: The Book that Predicted Trump's Rise Offers a Roadmap for Defeating Him
posted by Miko at 6:21 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mod note: Miko, your comment had the wrong url, so I've changed to what I think you intended to link. Let us know if you'd prefer something else!
posted by taz (staff) at 6:31 AM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


With tensions high, Pentagon flies bombers over Korean Peninsula in show of force

The entire Republican foreign policy is just verbal threats, Mike Pence mean-mugging, and flying/sailing hardware around in circles.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 AM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


The American euphemism of choice seemed strangely exotic - you choose to trace something "essential" back to the Caucasus?

Granted, but the US is not unique in finding exotic sources for its white supremacy theories.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


With tensions high, Pentagon flies bombers over Korean Peninsula in show of force

Well, that sure is a measure designed to bring the tensions down!
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:49 AM on July 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


If it's true, it is quite chilling coming from Amanda who routinely kills journalists.

I know, Amanda is such a bitch, right?

posted by leotrotsky at 9:08 AM on July 8

Ugh Mea culpa. I got called away before I noticed this typo. It was aautocorrect for "a man," obviously, but serves me right for trying to write on my phone in the morning.

Charles Pierce: How Stupid Do They Think We Are?
So I guess we're going to work with the Russians to keep the Russians from ratfcking future elections. And the president* promises "further work" on getting a commitment from a dead-eyed career spook that he will not ratfck American elections any more? What are the odds of that "further work" ever happening? What are the odds that the president* even remembers this commitment by breakfast tomorrow?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:04 AM on July 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


We need to realize that Russia is not the Soviet Superpower anymore. As a nation, it's more the equivalent of "the 300 pound guy in his parents' basement", and as such, can now do incredible damage in our tech-enabled, interconnected world. But militarily, it's closer these days to North Korea than America but without the total insanity at the top (of either).
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:20 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


The writers are way too heavy-handed lately with the metaphors: Juvenile bald eagle euthanized after being found shot on Fourth of July (Justin Wm. Moyer, WaPo).
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:22 AM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Russia is now aligned with one of the two major American political parties against 54% of American citizens. Oh, and they still have 8000 nukes. They're a bit more than the guy in the basement.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:26 AM on July 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


Again, red states are just a different shade of purple than the blue states. We're not an undifferentiated sea here.

Eh, it's a generalization, but a fair one I think. There are different shades of purple, after all.

And nobody likes it when you try to sicken and kill their family members.

True enough, but plenty of people seem to like being lied to about how dangerous universal health coverage is, even less-than-reliably-Republican-voting people. I guess my point was that I'm seeing, firsthand, growing support where I haven't before, despite the efforts of people who had previously been successful in trying to demonize it.
posted by Rykey at 7:26 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Putin's government gives generously to fascist movements around the world and has been amping up religious authoritarianism at home. He's an active danger to the rest of humanity and anybody so much as complimenting him on his dress sense should be retaliated against viciously.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:33 AM on July 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


John Crace, Guardian: Upper hand: Putin and Trump's body language shows who's the boss
Their first encounter had been a brush-by in the VIP lounge of the G20 conference centre in Hamburg during the morning. President Putin had intended it to be the briefest of handshakes, forgetting there is no such thing as a quick handshake with Donald Trump. The US president had thrust out a clammy right paw, grabbed hold of his arm with his left hand and then pumped it enthusiastically for rather longer than was comfortable. The man clearly has no sense of personal space.

Vlad flashed a half-hearted smile, keen not to look outmanoeuvred by such third-rate power games. The Donald might be a great deal taller than him, but he is also badly out of shape. A physical wreck. One judo throw and Trump would be on his back. Where he belonged. Had he really gone to all the trouble of trying to rig the US presidential election for this? Maybe he would have been better off with Hillary after all. At least you could have an intelligent conversation with her.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:36 AM on July 8, 2017 [17 favorites]




Is the Trump administration abandoning human rights? Listening to Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, it sure sounds like it. In recent remarks to State Department employees, Tillerson argued that promoting values “creates obstacles to our ability to advance our national security interests, our economic interests.”
posted by infini at 8:11 AM on July 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


The world is moving ahead regardless.

The US is down to a fifth of the world's economy. It no longer has an effective veto at Gx events.
posted by Talez at 8:17 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


And hell 20% of that is likely California.
posted by spitbull at 8:19 AM on July 8, 2017


More.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:23 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


California GDP is 2.5 trillion. US is 18 trillion. So CA is 14%.
posted by chris24 at 8:23 AM on July 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Is the Trump administration abandoning human rights?

Let's be clear. We've spent forty years talking about human rights. But we're more than happy to prop up massive human rights abuses when we feel its expedient or necessary for the economic or security interests of the United States.

Our middle east policy is basically "Human rights? What are those?". We spent most of the '70s and '80s supporting right wing authoritarianism in South America because of the USG policy of containment of communism. The USG really has never had consistency between what it says about human rights and what it does in service to those human rights.
posted by Talez at 8:25 AM on July 8, 2017 [35 favorites]


We need to realize that Russia is not the Soviet Superpower anymore.

I'm not sure the Soviet Superpower ever lived up to the Cold War hype. As part of my honeymoon, I visited the former Soviet Union in 1987 under the auspices of Sputnik, which was the youth-oriented tourism agency (InTourist was its counterpart for the older and well-heeled). One American in the group promptly disappeared. He had told us he had smuggled in suitcases full of bibles and planned to go to Gorky Park to proselytize. His disappearance was a really big deal and the ensuing investigation consumed all of our minders' attention. We never saw him again or learned what happened; weeks later, when it was time to leave, all of the investigators reappeared in hopes he would show up for the flight home.

Anyway, from my perspective the incident had a nice side effect because, after initially being detained for interviews, we got to wander around freely, first in Moscow and then in the other cities we visited. They claimed the investigation-caused delay forced them to abandon the original itinerary, but I think the freedom was illusory; they wanted to give any potential co-conspirators among us the opportunity to incriminate themselves (and locals) as it seemed like we were under surveillance.

I sought out people in my profession and just met folks here and there. People were really nice to us and so we fielded a lot of invitations, even though we told them about the surveillance situation. Consequently, I got to see a lot of ordinary commercial and residential spaces and what passed for current business- and consumer- technology. And I didn't know what to think!

For example, in a large municipal office, the manager would have literally half a dozen phones on his/her desk because there were no equivalents to even the simplest multi-line systems. Manual typewriters graced every desk. And there was an incredibly inefficient process for retail transactions--view item on shelf, find clerk, ask to examine it, give item back, tell clerk of intention to buy, receive paper chit, take chit to cashier, pay, receive another chit, return to shelf, find original clerk, present chit, receive item, take item and chits to another desk to receive a bag, show all chits and item to security guard at the store door, etc.--suggested the need for phenomenal make-work to prop up economic activity and/or the need to thwart consumption because there wasn't enough to go around. At a hockey rink, they cleaned the ice by hand: no Zamboni equivalents. And I saw signs of danger in many homes: sketchy looking stoves and space heaters, electrical cords with frayed insulation, etc. The people clearly just wanted to get by.

It all made me wonder: should I feel relieved or terrified? Did the technology gap mean that the Soviet Union was more backwards than they hype suggested... or did it mean they were putting all of their brainpower and production capacity into military might? How much of the evil empire trope was our marketing and how much was theirs?

Obviously my time there was short and long ago--my observations aren't worth much-- but that's my story.
posted by carmicha at 8:30 AM on July 8, 2017 [73 favorites]


Is the Trump administration abandoning human rights?

Not so much "has abandonned" as "is against them".
posted by Artw at 8:35 AM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


And there was an incredibly inefficient process for retail transactions--view item on shelf, find clerk, ask to examine it, give item back, tell clerk of intention to buy, receive paper chit, take chit to cashier, pay, receive another chit, return to shelf, find original clerk, present chit, receive item, take item and chits to another desk to receive a bag, show all chits and item to security guard at the store door, etc.

This is still common in government run retail outlets for handicrafts, museum stores, and other such showrooms up and down India. Also, interestingly enough, in Mustafa Mall in Singapore.It is a complicated means for managing inhouse petty thefts as well as shoplifting in high traffic contexts. That is, its a system whose design emerges from high mistrust contexts of higher scarcity - Mustafa's main body of customers during weekends are lower income migrant labour, and it is a vast and sprawling oldfashioned retail space with very heavy traffic.
posted by infini at 8:38 AM on July 8, 2017 [11 favorites]








That's interesting about the Mustafa Mall situation, infini; I've never been there, but I remember being astounded that people eating lunch at Lau Pa Sat (Telok Ayer Market) would leave their briefcases on their chairs without worry.
posted by carmicha at 8:46 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is the Trump administration abandoning human rights?
The US government has only really ever paid lip service to human rights at home and abroad.
As has been mentioned above the history of USA in Central and South America is the history of human rights abuses in those countries, plus all the 'best friends' in the Middle East and Central Asia. Human rights sounded fine at world conferences but happily ignored the high level of incarceration at home, Guantanamo, driving while black, Native Americans etc etc. All Trump and Tillerson and friends are doing is readily admitting that human rights are just some sort of hippy liberal nuisance which should be ground into the dust and ignored.
posted by adamvasco at 8:46 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is the Trump administration abandoning human rights?

As others note, you can't abandon something you never really pursued. American foreign policy architect George Kennan put it pretty clearly back in 1948:
We should stop putting ourselves in the position of being our brothers' keeper and refrain from offering moral and ideological advice. We should cease to talk about vague—and for the Far East—unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day is not far off when we are going to have to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are hampered by idealistic slogans, the better.
That's been the framework ever since, with various degrees of posturing to the contrary across administrations.
posted by Rykey at 9:16 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


While div acknowledge all of that the US not having room to do worse on human rights seems an overly optimistic view.
posted by Artw at 9:16 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]




G20 recognises US decision to pull out of Paris climate deal but other 19 strongly committed to it - final statement

Welp, this value free judgement sure brought everyone else closer together, what?
posted by infini at 9:32 AM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hundreds withdraw Colorado voter registrations in response to compliance with commission request

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
posted by Artw at 9:33 AM on July 8, 2017 [34 favorites]




I just love their tears so much.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:40 AM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


I guess they haven't heard the good news about Putin sorting 2018 for them.
posted by Artw at 9:43 AM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


From that guardian article - "They both had Russian-to-English translators but the Americans had clearly forgotten to bring an English-to-English translator."
posted by pyramid termite at 9:50 AM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Also, "He wasn’t used to having to concentrate for more than 140 characters at a time. And even that was often a struggle."
posted by Mister Bijou at 10:01 AM on July 8, 2017


Pat Bagley's take...
posted by Oyéah at 10:11 AM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Who's Pat Bagley? Lots of context-free title-links going on here today.
posted by rhizome at 10:17 AM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Pat Bagley is a Salt Lake City political cartoonist and staunch liberal who is notable for his utter disinterest in what the right-wingers who comprise most of Utah think about him.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:21 AM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


You gotta feel for her: what an awkward place to stay out of politics.

Woah, easy now! She said she "tries to stay out of politics".

She just fails to. It's so hard.
posted by srboisvert at 10:30 AM on July 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Think Progress World leaders commit themselves to climate action without the United States
U.S. leaders also pushed to include a fossil fuel pledge in the final version of the communique that other countries like France strongly opposed, according to BuzzFeed reporting.

The statement includes a line reading, “The United States of America states it will endeavour to work closely with other countries to help them access and use fossil fuels more cleanly and efficiently and help deploy renewable and other clean energy sources, given the importance of energy access and security in their nationally determined contributions.”
This is like a group deciding to go on a diet together and the fattest person saying, "I've got a huge supply of candy bars that I can share with everyone."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:37 AM on July 8, 2017 [21 favorites]


The idea being that the US is better at using fossil fuels more cleanly and efficiently than other countries? I'm pretty sure that's not true. "Hey EU, let me show you what 'rolling coal' is."
posted by rhizome at 10:51 AM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Remember when we actually had a president who showed interest in others, and especially loved meeting babies? Don't mind me, I'll just be starting my afternoon weeping in the corner when I think of the current shitshow purportedly in command...
posted by TwoStride at 10:53 AM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


I listened to a podcast this morning on the history of Medicaid. TIL that in return for support for the Republican Hyde Amendment which prevents any Federal funds being used for abortions, the Democrats got Medicaid expanded to cover pregnant women. Makes sense, right? You take away access to abortion and you end up with more pregnant ladies. Only now the Republicans are trying to renege on that deal by severely limiting access to Medicaid to everyone, including pregnant women.

WaPo Ivanka Trump takes her father’s seat at world leaders’ table during a G-20 meeting
It isn't the first time Ivanka Trump has participated in high-level meetings at the summit. On Thursday night, she and her husband, Jared Kushner, another Trump adviser, joined the president at a bilateral meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Kushner also participated in Trump's bilateral meeting with Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto on Friday.
I know we are a little sensitive on the topic of criticizing other people's religious observances but today is the Sabbath and one presumes that the G20 meeting would be considered work.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:59 AM on July 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


WaPo Senate GOP and White House plan final, urgent blitz to pass health-care law
Murkowski said she has personally contacted Democrats to see whether they might be more willing partners in fixing the health-care system in a way that fits the needs of her state. She is one of a number of rank-and-file Republicans who are warming to the idea of abandoning plans for repeal and working with Democrats to fix the existing system.
Get 3 Republicans to stabilize ACA with the help of Democrats and that's the ballgame for repeal and replace, unless there is a way for McConnell to stop a vote from being held on the Senate floor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:06 AM on July 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


This morning during the G20 meeting, DJT left for bilateral meetings and Ivanka took his place.

It's cool, Republicans would've been fine with Obama having Sasha or Malia sit in for him.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:10 AM on July 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


Remember how Ivanka Trump was all "I try to stay out of politics" last week and now she's sitting at the table at the G20 representing the United States?

I'm starting to think she just might not be on the level.
posted by zachlipton at 11:13 AM on July 8, 2017 [54 favorites]


I can't imagine the amount of incoherent rage and fury we'd see if positions were reversed and it were Chelsea Clinton sitting in her mother's place at the table.
posted by Ber at 11:15 AM on July 8, 2017 [67 favorites]


I just love their tears so much.
posted by schadenfrau


You would.
posted by spitbull at 11:22 AM on July 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


Oh my god. @BraddJaffy: "Mistake in White House Trump-Xi readout. Taiwan is officially the "Republic of China." China is officially the "People's Republic of China."" [photo of readout inside]

Hard to overstate what an egregious error it is to mix up China and Taiwan. Is there anyone in this administration with a clue as to what they're doing? Anyone?
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on July 8, 2017 [50 favorites]


I suspect there is a lot of "incoherent rage and fury" among Republican Congresscritters and the Punditocracy over Donald letting Ivanka sit in for him, but they don't DARE mumble a word about it, because they know there's a portion of Trump's Base for whom giving any woman, even/especially a DAUGHTER, some real authority would be one of the few things that could damage their support. I'll bet (though I have zero interest in investigating) that the TrumpMedia (FauxNews, NotsobrightBart, etc) totally buried that story.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:31 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


The framing and photos have such a strong flavour of "so we faced off with this guy, and he's an obnoxious wannabe, and has no clue which fork to use, so we're gonna snub him through and through and he won't even recognize it"
posted by infini at 11:39 AM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Another WH mistake. This one could have more impact than most but this is the reason why I've been so upset with all their many typos and misspellings and omissions. They continuously screw up. This is high level incompetence and it makes me very nervous.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:59 AM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


The whole Ivanka thing is really rubbing me the wrong way. With regard to nepotism, okay. I have a problem with that. But it's not as if Trump himself has any expertise on these issues and it's not as if there are guarantees that some random staffer asked to occupy a seat for twenty minutes is "qualified", either. There's something kind of repugnant about attacking Ivanka about this, and especially the sneering dismissials of her as a "model" or whatever. What the hell does an investment banker know about international policy in Africa? There's this presumption that successful men who fall into politics somehow are capable, but when women do they're manifestly unqualified.

The only people I think are "qualified" are career staffers and bureaucrats who have deep knowledge and institutional experience with policy issues. Everyone else is just a monkey randomly pressing buttons, as far as I'm concerned, and it's no worse when it's a late-twenties blonde woman than when it's a mid-forties balding man.

I just needed to get that off my chest. Yeah, Trump and his whole entourage are embarrassments. I get that. But Ivanka is as qualified to warm that chair for twenty minutes as Rick Perry is qualified to be Secretary of the Department of Energy. Well, more so. I don't know that Perry is qualified to even sit in a chair.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:10 PM on July 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


I know I said I was gonna swear off Atlantic think pieces, but I'd be interested in reactions to this: Where the Left Went Wrong: The Book that Predicted Trump's Rise Offers a Roadmap for Defeating Him

Before people click over, it's by Conor Friedersdorf, so keep your expectations low.

"This Left is more likely to participate in a public shaming than to lobby for a new law; it is more likely to mobilize to occupy a park or shut down a freeway than to register voters."

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by longdaysjourney at 12:12 PM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


"This Left is more likely to participate in a public shaming than to lobby for a new law; it is more likely to mobilize to occupy a park or shut down a freeway than to register voters."
I have no idea who he's counting as "the left," but I'm 99.99999% certain that I've registered more voters than Conor Friedersdorf has. I wouldn't be surprised if I'd registered more voters in a single day than Conor Friedersdorf ever has.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:14 PM on July 8, 2017 [47 favorites]


This is high level incompetence and it makes me very nervous.

There's a complete lack of awareness of how it all looks on the WORLD stage rather than one small slice of the planetary population. This administration's self absorption has become an unexpected lever for the rest.

Check out Der Spiegel's International version for a curated version of events
posted by infini at 12:14 PM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Everyone else is just a monkey randomly pressing buttons, as far as I'm concerned, and it's no worse when it's a late-twenties blonde woman than when it's a mid-forties balding man.

The issue, as I see it, is that Trump has created this bizarro-universe US government that is totally nonresponsive to traditional norms (or, as we have seen, even laws). Replacing statutory authority (which is both regular and regulated) with shadow authority run by his flunkies and his children is a bad development, especially as he is constantly broadcasting to both foreign governments and nongovernmental actors that only his children speak for him. A democracy with rule of law can't function this way.
posted by gerryblog at 12:16 PM on July 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


So, Ivanka - how's that "staying out of politics" thing going for you? Working out alright?
posted by nubs at 12:18 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


That said I think there is certainly an element of sexism in this criticism of Ivanka and you're right to call it out. But there's a larger problem where the head of state is reorganizing the government away from existing, accountable power structures and into this much murkier, much less accountable soup organized around his daughter and son-in-law. It's definitely a part of the larger, frightening rapid swing towards authoritarianism we've seen since January.
posted by gerryblog at 12:18 PM on July 8, 2017 [36 favorites]


Oh Jesus, I was just reading the transcript linked to in that Brad Jaffy tweet. Typical DJT crap:
Trade is, as you know, as very, very big issue for the United States now, because for years, and certainly over a long period of time, many things have happened that have led to trade imbalances. And we 're going to turn that around. And I know that China in particular, which is a great trading partner, we will be able to do something that will be equitable and reciprocal.
I know my writing here is not always perfect but I double checked to make sure I got that exactly as transcribed by the WH-- complete with the extra spacing in "we 're."


But it's not as if Trump himself has any expertise on these issues and it's not as if there are guarantees that some random staffer asked to occupy a seat for twenty minutes is "qualified", either. There's something kind of repugnant about attacking Ivanka about this,


Oh come the fuck on. Trump was elected. She was not elected. Is that really so hard for you to understand? If she was a 35 yo blonde who was elected to the office of President, we might complain about her inexperience (as we do with Trump) but this is a whole other level. She is his daughter and that is her sole qualification to meet and sit-in a discussion with other world leaders. We do not have a monarchy. She is not fit to represent our interests solely due to birthright.


That said I think there is certainly an element of sexism


Here's a quick test. Would there be any less criticism if it was Eric? I don't think so.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:21 PM on July 8, 2017 [62 favorites]


Yeah, it is most definitely not sexist to critique blatant paternalism.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:24 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Given a choice between Ivanka or Don, Jr, I would select "let the chair be empty. "
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:28 PM on July 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


Let's leave the blatant sexism for the "Conservative" pundits who are trying so very hard to ignore that this happened at all.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:30 PM on July 8, 2017


If the choice was Eric I would say, "Let's burn the chair."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 12:31 PM on July 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Everyone else is just a monkey randomly pressing buttons, as far as I'm concerned, and it's no worse when it's a late-twenties blonde woman than when it's a mid-forties balding man.

Sometimes it's not what you say, it's how you say it. The abandoning of the polite fiction of having a "top assistant" sit in for you and just blatantly "warming the chair" sends the message that you (the speaker) are not that important. B-list. The whole point of the mid-forties balding man is that as far as anyone knows, that guy is more expert than the boss. We know Ivanka doesn't know shit.
posted by ctmf at 12:36 PM on July 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


My problem with Ivanka, and Jared too, starts and ends with the nepotism. If they were educated and experienced in intergovernmental affairs I still wouldn't want them there.
I believe if the best person for the job is your daughter/son/sister/uncle/whatever, then you hire the second best person.
posted by rocket88 at 12:38 PM on July 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Russia is now aligned with one of the two major American political parties against 54% of American citizens. (T.D. Strange at 7:26 AM)

That must be what it feels like to be a third world country when the US CIA is blatantly instigating revolutions and/or supporting one side in local politics.
posted by ctmf at 12:40 PM on July 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


"But there's a larger problem where the head of state is reorganizing the government away from existing, accountable power structures and into this much murkier, much less accountable soup organized around his daughter and son-in-law. It's definitely a part of the larger, frightening rapid swing towards authoritarianism we've seen since January."

Yeah, I completely, emphatically agree with that. I think maybe my reaction was strongly colored by some of the wording in the first piece I read about Ivanka sitting in on that meeting. But, yeah, the transformation of the US into Trump, Inc. is a fundamental break from the political norms in this country. It's deeply upsetting.

"Oh come the fuck on. Trump was elected. She was not elected. Is that really so hard for you to understand?"

None of the staffers who sat in when other leaders left the room were elected. And, yeah, I do think that the criticism wouldn't be as strong had it been, say, Jared -- but more to the point, the kind of criticism would be different. Again, I'm reacting to what I read and it had a gendered subtext. It's fucked-up that Trump runs the Presidency like he runs his corrupt family business, I am as disgusted and embarrassed about that as anyone else. (But, you know, "come the fuck on" and "is that really so hard for you to understand?" is not justified.)

Ivanka deserves a lot of criticism, just like her husband does, but some of what I see is gendered and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. More than one article I read about this emphasized that she was unqualified, as if that were the problem. As if someone else would have necessarily been qualified. And these articles discussed her lack of qualifications in the gendered way you might expect. I think that had what I read been all about the nepotism, I would have reacted differently. But both the first two things I read went to pains to emphasize her lack of qualifications. As if that were the fundamental problem there (it wasn't) and as if other people sitting in were necessarily qualified (they probably weren't).

"The whole point of the mid-forties balding man is that as far as anyone knows, that guy is more expert than the boss."

Yeah, see, I have some trouble with the implications of that. Given what I know about Ivanka and given what I know about picking a random fortysomething white guy off the street and putting him in a suit, I don't have any reason to think he'd know more than she does. The default assumption for Ivanka and other women is that they aren't qualified and they have to prove it. Somehow, though, there's more willingness to accept that her husband might know some stuff and certainly that's the case for any other random white guy in a suit in his twenties. What's wrong with the whole thing is the the nepotism, not whether she was "qualified".
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:46 PM on July 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Iowa Woman Pleads Guilty To Voting Twice For Donald Trump
The woman, 56-year-old Terri Lynn Rote, reportedly cast a ballot during early voting in Polk County and attempted to cast a second one at a satellite voting location, where she was arrested. Rote told police she voted twice because she believed Trump’s claims that the 2016 election would be rigged and thought her first ballot would be changed to a vote for Democrat Hillary Clinton, according to CBS News.
posted by mumimor at 12:46 PM on July 8, 2017 [57 favorites]


Is there a hacker gap? I mean, do we just need more and better hackers to compete? I don't understand why Russia seems to have a strategic edge on the digital ratfuckery battlefield.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:46 PM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is there a hacker gap? I mean, do we just need more and better hackers to compete? I don't understand why Russia seems to have a strategic edge on the digital ratfuckery battlefield.
This is where my head's been since last year. Feeling that we actually are in a new paradigm of warfare, a tech/media/information war that will only be recognized looking back from some point in the future (10 years?, 40?). And that we've already lost the first war.
posted by rc3spencer at 12:50 PM on July 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is there a hacker gap? I mean, do we just need more and better hackers to compete? I don't understand why Russia seems to have a strategic edge on the digital ratfuckery battlefield.

Russias best and brightest software engineers are on the streets hustling working for any shady character willing to pay their fee.

The USs best and brightest software engineers are trying to get you to click on boner pill ads at Google or Facebook.
posted by PenDevil at 12:56 PM on July 8, 2017 [41 favorites]


Asymmetrical warfare - you need to have institutions worth undermining to be a worthwhile target.
posted by Artw at 12:57 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Russia is now aligned with one of the two major American political parties against 54% of American citizens.
That must be what it feels like to be a third world country when the US CIA is blatantly instigating revolutions and/or supporting one side in local politics.

I previously linked to this usually-not-very-political comic that made a similar point.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:59 PM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


The default assumption for Ivanka and other women is that they aren't qualified and they have to prove it.

We already know Ivanka. The reason the balding guy is better - and it doesn't have to be a guy, it could be a professional-looking woman nobody knows - is because nobody really cares enough to check it out. They're just taking notes, ostensibly to brief the boss later. Ivanka is just as good for that as anyone - maybe better to the extent the President will listen to her summary. The insult is sending someone everyone else already knows doesn't know what they're listening to. This isn't sexism, it's just the rubbing-my-face-in-it-publicly factor that would irritate me as one of the other participants.

I don't think it's a huge thing worth arguing about. It's a minor snub, one of many that happen every day in politics, and you can't have too thin a skin for such things. I only clarified because I don't think I made that point very well earlier.
posted by ctmf at 1:00 PM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh are we doing the thing where alt-right dicks send their cool-girl then get huffy she doesn't get automatic feminism points?
posted by Artw at 1:02 PM on July 8, 2017 [45 favorites]


It sure seems like the few actual voter fraud (multiple voting) that have come to light have been ... conservatives voting for Republicans. I'd like to say that this is an amazing irony and that it proves something, except that this is just par for the course in the alternate reality we're now living in, where up is down and Trump criticizes the media for "fake news". We've truly entered the looking glass, haven't we?

"Is there a hacker gap? I mean, do we just need more and better hackers to compete? I don't understand why Russia seems to have a strategic edge on the digital ratfuckery battlefield."

I'm nearly certain that this isn't the case. It's true that they have always had talented coders. But we have every reason to believe that it's the surrounding context that's asymmetric, not the capability. Our hackers can get actual jobs. Good jobs. And our hackers aren't very motivated to either A) screw around with the Russians for the lulz, or B) do so on behalf of shady intelligence services. I am firmly convinced by what Obama said last year, and by the tone with which he said it -- the fact is, our cyberwarfare capabilities dwarf the Russians and anyone else on the planet -- not just because of our size and talent, but because the US has the inherent advantage of being where much of the internet was designed and where much of the equipment is designed and built and all that's related to that. The US has cyberwarfare capability the same way it has conventional or nuclear military capability. Which is to say, it has far more raw power than it can use effectively.

What I wanted was for Obama to have lost patience with Russia and take much of their IT infrastructure down. I mean, one thing we actually did was plant harmless worms in all sorts of Russian systems, designed to be found, just to let them know that we can get into whatever we want. The problem is that as satisfying as it is to think of the US slapping down Russia in this whole cyberwarfare stuff, it would be geopolitically problematic, as well as compromising much intelligence access that could be put to better use. The whole thing about "a weapon that is too powerful to use isn't useful at all" comes to mind and for all we know the US is pursuing all sorts of cyberwarfare that we don't know about and there's no good reason for anyone to really know about. The Russians score propoganda points when they do what they do ... the US wouldn't. If the US does any cyberwarfare, it's best that it be as deniable as possible.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:05 PM on July 8, 2017 [15 favorites]




Also, is it a capability gap, or a willingness to practice the capability in the wild gap? I think we're seeing Russia do the equivalent of the "oops, I flew my plane into your air defense zone by accident, so sorry (nice defense procedures you have there)" maneuvers. As far as I know, we are not in the info-warfare realm. But that could mean (a) we can't, (b) we won't, (c) we are, but are more secretive about it/others are too embarrassed to report, (d)...
posted by ctmf at 1:10 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's no hacker gap, we hack like crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if there was NSA microcode in every hard drives firmware, etc. We Just have different goals and purposes, and the US has a different set of vulnerabilities than, say, an authoritarian pseudo democracy like Russia.
posted by dis_integration at 1:11 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


None of the staffers who sat in when other leaders left the room were elected.

Staff members are hired not random guys off the street. In order to get hired you need qualifications and a background check, neither of which Ivanka had. I really don't know why you assume staffers are unknowledgeable. Just because Trump hires amateurs doesn't mean that is the norm. I guarantee you if Obama had had a staffer sit in for him on a G20 meeting it would have been someone with a background in that subject like Susan Rice. I am giving the benefit of the doubt to all the other leaders because there is nobody as unprofessional and lazy as Trump. Do you think May or Merkel or Putin or Xi have unprofessional people on their staff?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:13 PM on July 8, 2017 [16 favorites]




From 2015: Russia hackers, warnings from US intel community

According to the U.S. Intelligence Community’s 2015 “Worldwide Threat Assessment” report, Russia and China are the "most sophisticated nation-state actors” in the new generation of cyberwarfare, and Russian hackers lead in terms of sophistication, programming power and inventiveness. “The threat from China is overinflated, while the threat from Russia is underestimated,” says Jeffrey Carr, head of Web security consultancy Taia Global and author of the book Inside Cyber Warfare. “The Russians are the most technically proficient. For instance, we believe that Russian hackers-for-hire were responsible for the Sony attack.”
posted by rc3spencer at 1:15 PM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


it's no worse when it's a late-twenties blonde woman than when it's a mid-forties balding man.

I would love to be on your side and I somewhat am, but Ivanka is just a hair shy of her late thirties. this kind of constant age downgrading feels like more of a low-level sexist insult than demands that she get the fuck out of a chair that isn't hers.

tiny edit: constant in that people do it all the time (calling her a girl and so on), not that you personally do.
posted by queenofbithynia at 1:16 PM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


A huge weakness is the lack of introspection on the external perception of the SWOT analysis. The gap isn't hacker, the gap is in the distance between one side's SWOT and the other's. Might be worth putting down the Rah Rah filters for a couple of minutes in order to obtain an assessment from some neutral third party.

This is actually what happened with the institution where our coworking space is located. They learnt a very expensive and time consuming lesson on not dismissing concerns raised by some of their hired help just because they were foreign trained researchers.
posted by infini at 1:17 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


It sure seems like the few actual voter fraud (multiple voting) that have come to light have been ... conservatives voting for Republicans.
The ones I've seen have been. But honestly, the only lesson to be taken from the woman in Iowa is that there are effective safeguards to prevent people from voting twice. She tried to vote a second time, and it was immediately clear to the election officials that she'd already voted, so they didn't give her a ballot and instead had her arrested. The same thing would have happened if a Clinton supporter had tried to vote twice. The point is that the system worked fine, and nothing needed to be fixed or changed. But that didn't stop Iowa Republicans from passing a terrible new voting law that's going to end up disenfranchising a lot of people.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:17 PM on July 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


Do you think May or Merkel or Putin or Xi have unprofessional people on their staff?
This. When you think of it, having an incompetent person sitting in for the president is obscenely ridiculous, even when the president himself is incompetent. I bet a lot of people there are speculating wether this is yet another sign that Ivanka and Jared are the actual regents (no, they probably aren't).
posted by mumimor at 1:19 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


My objection to Ivanka and Jared is about nepotism, sure, but a lot of it is about the incredible disrespect for expertise. When my boss has an important research coordination meeting, she doesn't say, "eh, whatever, I'll send Frowner, the junior accountant...everyone else brought senior researchers and important money people, but any old rando from my org will suffice to warm a chair". If she had an important meeting and could not attend, she'd send the most senior, most expert person available.

What does it say to everyone else when they've brought people with actual qualifications and you send a rando with no qualifications? It says, "I don't respect your contributions to this process, I don't need to listen to them and I don't need to supply someone with expertise from my org to listen to them either". It also says, the decisions of my org are not made based on collective input or on opinions from experts, they're made by whatever I feel like doing, so you can suck it.

It's true that senior government staff are going to be limited in their knowledge and thinking - they're almost all going to be from super-wealthy white-people backgrounds. And that's a real problem, but it doesn't literally mean that they are stupid. The smartest graduate from Exeter may be more limited in his thinking than someone from another background, but he's not therefore a total fool.

Also, frankly, if we're going to be governed by unqualified people, let's pick them off the street so that working class people have a chance. If we must have unqualified people making decisions, I'd prefer people who are not insulated from consequences by wealth.
posted by Frowner at 1:19 PM on July 8, 2017 [79 favorites]


Ivanka Trump briefly took her father's place at the G-20 negotiating table on Saturday. But hostess Angela Merkel is happy to have the U.S. president's daughter at the summit. A good relationship with Ivanka provides a reliable channel to the White House.
posted by infini at 1:23 PM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


White house conversation: Not a puppet! You're the puppet!
posted by Dashy at 1:28 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


hacker gap

Despite a relatively low public investment in education, Russia excels at teaching math and science in primary and secondary schools, and rewards and recognizes success in those fields. We have a science gap, and a math gap. American kids spend a lot of time on computers, but less time learning to code.

Recent Russian immigrants I have known (I have spoken here about growing up in a Russian Orthdox church community, but this has also been true of Russian Jews I have known) are shocked at the low quality of math and science education in American public schools. If they can they send their kids to after school programs and summer schools to do more advanced work, or even home school them if they are themselves scientifically literate, as most Russians I have known (granted most have come from urban, educated backgrounds) have been.

I would not doubt the Russian military and intelligence services have an easier time recruiting thousands of decently skilled young coders a year than their American counterparts. And because of the lack of a meritocratic and vibrant commercial software sector (largely due to oligarchy's failure to foster competition, there are of course exceptions) the other way that vast population of young coders can apply their talents to getting ahead involve criminal hacking enterprises and peri-state hacking, both of which have made much trouble for the US election system in the past few years, as well as inflicting broader damages.

This is intuitive but based on real experiences. Even as a professor for 25 years, I've met lots and lots of Russian and East European students and they are generally super well educated in science and math.

So there's another cost -- in raw national security no less -- of the right's long-term effort at disinvestment (tax cuts!) in science, technology, medicine, education, workforce development, etc., as well as the vapid cultural value placed on new technologies to do (we, buy, buy, buy!) ridiculous things we never needed before (which, like science denial, affects right and left cultural spheres -- If your parents deny the effectiveness of vaccines, you're starting life under a canopy of idiocy.

I also know that several American companies are fairly deeply worried about the lack of science, math, and computing skills in the workforce. GE even advertises about it. They once threatened to pay me and a colleague a lot of money if we could prove music education improved math scores in poor schools. (Turns out you can't do that and it's based on a specious but widely believed mythology about music and math and brain development.) I ended up -- a bit to my own horror, but working with a colleague in education to check my work -- concluding that for most poorer American school districts the quality of math and science education alone was the much greater problem related to math scores and required much more urgent investment than the arts did, as important as the arts might be (Sidebar: IMHO they're taught all wrong and undemocratically, or at least music is, throughout American education. So we don't get nearly as much side benefit for society from investment in music ed generally as we could if we did it better and with less classism.. another story for another time).

TLDR: I suspect there is a hacker gap at the widest part of the curve for what "hacker" means culturally, and once again it's the fault of Republicans fucking up America.
posted by spitbull at 1:37 PM on July 8, 2017 [50 favorites]


I think we're seeing Russia do the equivalent of the "oops, I flew my plane into your air defense zone by accident, so sorry (nice defense procedures you have there)" maneuvers.

On second thought, I take that back. They're past that and are on to "I can do this whenever I want" show-of-force maneuvers. Like flying bombers across South Korea as a message to NK or parking an aircraft carrier off someone's coast.
posted by ctmf at 1:44 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


On the math and science gap, here's a recent article from Pew Research (by Drew DeSilver) that summarizes the findings of the major global surveys. Short version: America sucks at math and science relative to the pack.

U.S. students’ academic achievement still lags that of their peers in many other countries
posted by spitbull at 1:49 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


@MajorCBS:
Aboard #AF1 neither Mnuchin nor McMaster deny @POTUS "accepted" (as Russian FM Lavrov said) Putin's denial of US elex cyber meddling.

@lrozen:
fwiw, Mnuchin, McMaster, Cohn on AF1 declined to dispute Lavrov's & Putin's account multiple times

----

Hey, my good friend Pooty said he didn't do it, that's good enough for me. Who cares that our IC says he did. Who you gonna believe, the autocratic foreign adversary, or America's intelligence agencies.
posted by chris24 at 1:51 PM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


For additional background, this is the woman thrown out of her wheelchair by a cop in the Columbus Ohio post from 30ish minutes ago.

She is a member of ADAPT. Her story was already tragic before being dumped from her wheelchair. It was incredibly strong and awesome of her to be there protesting.
posted by bootlegpop at 1:51 PM on July 8, 2017 [43 favorites]


The USs best and brightest software engineers are trying to get you to click on boner pill ads at Google or Facebook.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on those boner pill ads. You need me on those boner pill ads.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:55 PM on July 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Wheelchair folks tend to have problems with low density mass, meaning their lower bodies can be as fragile AF. Want to move a wheelchair protestor? Release the breaks on their chair and then push the chair with them in it. Fuck.
posted by angrycat at 2:03 PM on July 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


ADAPT and other people with disabilities have been doing amazing stuff protesting Trumpcare. If you're on Twitter, David M. Perry is a good person to follow to hear about this. It's a continuation of a long history of fearless, badass activism by people with disabilities, which most Americans aren't aware of.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:08 PM on July 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


Oh. I didn't even hear a ticking. Trump Team Met With Lawyer Linked to Kremlin During Campaign
posted by Brainy at 2:12 PM on July 8, 2017 [39 favorites]


On the math and science gap, here's a recent article from Pew Research (by Drew DeSilver) that summarizes the findings of the major global surveys. Short version: America sucks at math and science relative to the pack.

Six or seven years ago, I looked at the numbers for international education and found that if one breaks the U.S. down by any of several measures of poverty and then compares each level to similarly impoverished countries that we are at or near the top within each category. (I found a similar phenomenon at the level of U.S. states using NAEP data, even with as simple a measure as percentage of people below the poverty level.) I suspect that this is still the case. If so, then it is somewhat misleading to say that Americans suck at math and science relative to the pack. It would be better to say that the statistical average of all Americans are in the middle of the pack but that the statistical average of wealthy Americans are near the very top, the statistical average of not-so-wealthy Americans are near the top when compared to similarly wealthy nations, and so on. The problem is massive levels of inequality in the U.S. combined with the fact that the scores being reported are averages.
posted by Jonathan Livengood at 2:15 PM on July 8, 2017 [39 favorites]


What's wrong with the whole thing is the the nepotism, not whether she was "qualified".

Would you mind telling us exactly what Ivanka's qualifications are for that position? please compare them to the qualifications of the other people who held those seats.

Seriously, just what do you think the problem with nepotism IS, if not "unqualified people get put in positions due to being related to someone in power"?

It's like there's this weird thing with Americans where they don't really understand the concept of nepotism, so they get it mixed up with cousin marriages or inbreeding or something. So people were screaming they didn't want a Clinton dynasty, for no reason other than she was related to someone formerly in office.

And then they turn around and say "Oh be nice to Ivanka, because she's a woman." Make up your goddamn minds people.
posted by happyroach at 2:16 PM on July 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Must be a fucker being a handbag manufacturer who didn't get the job by nepotism and watching this shit go down.
posted by Artw at 2:28 PM on July 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


Masha Gessen, NYT: Trump Gave Putin Exactly What He Wanted
The one accomplishment of the meeting — a limited cease-fire in Syria — is exactly what Mr. Putin wanted. Not the cease-fire, that is: He wanted an acknowledgment that the United States and Russia are equal negotiating parties in the Syrian conflict. He spent years cajoling and then blackmailing the Obama administration into accepting Russia’s decisive role in the Middle East. Now, Mr. Trump has handed him much more than that. He has demonstrated that Russia and the United States can negotiate Syrian life and death without involving any Syrians.

But what was really important was what was apparently missing from the meeting: any criticism of Russia’s war in Ukraine, including its occupation of Crimea, and of the crackdown on political dissent inside Russia itself. In his accounting of the meeting, Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson mentioned Ukraine only to say that a new United States representative on the matter would be appointed. He then managed to avoid answering the one question from a journalist about Ukraine and sanctions imposed in response to the Russian war there. Nor did the correspondents at the briefing appear concerned with getting answers on Ukraine. They were much more interested in the details of the two presidents’ discussion of Russian meddling in the American election. This is a topic that Mr. Putin clearly enjoys: It testifies to his political power, apparently unbounded by international borders.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:33 PM on July 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


The Free Press witnessed one of the largest displays of police vehicles storming the building in history. One onlooker wondered if there had been a terrorist attack.

Video recorded by a demonstrator shows a wheelchair-bound woman being tossed from her chair by the police. One witness stated that police were dragging people out of wheelchairs. Three witnesses told the Free Press that they saw and videotaped people being pushed out of wheelchairs and of a hearing-impaired person being arrested.

The Columbus Police claimed 15 people were arrested. Weber put the number higher at 23, including 20 women, with all the arrestees being from the group ADAPT. ADAPT had negotiated their action with the Police and were stunned by the violent nature of the arrests.


What the Fuck, Columbus? ("Columbus Police on the Attack Again: Disabled demonstrators arrested", Bob Fitrakis, Columbus Free Press, July 7, 2017)
posted by petebest at 2:34 PM on July 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


Disability Rights Protesters Arrested At Portman's Office In Columbus
By ADORA NAMIGADDE & GABE ROSENBERG, WOSU Radio)

"What we saw were police pulling people out of their wheelchairs without any regard for their safety," says Ken Eno, who came from New York to support family members with disabilities. "At one point, two or three police came through one side of the doorway and that’s when everything kind of started going downhill." . . .

"Multiple cops came in and started pulling everybody from the wheelchair. One of the cops pushed one of the people in the wheelchair off the wheelchair. She can’t move. Her legs don’t work whatsoever,"

According to Eno, the police then dragged protesters through the lobby and onto the ground outside.

"Piling them on top of each other as if they were dead bodies or something like that," he says.


You evil fucking bastards.
posted by petebest at 2:51 PM on July 8, 2017 [65 favorites]


Ivanka's seat at the table sends another message that the G19 won't miss -- that Trump doesn't trust any of his diplomatic staff at all. Same reason that he only took one aide and a translator into a meeting with Putin.

So you can just work on the perceptions and naked self interest of Trump and his family members, as China did in granting Ivanka unheard-of-fast approval of her patents, and forget about any actual policy considerations because they don't really matter.

And if you can feed Trump's paranoia, you can maneuver him into a one-on-one meeting, where negotiation is more like taking candy from a baby.
posted by msalt at 2:57 PM on July 8, 2017 [39 favorites]


> Also, frankly, if we're going to be governed by unqualified people, let's pick them off the street so that working class people have a chance. If we must have unqualified people making decisions, I'd prefer people who are not insulated from consequences by wealth.

I really miss the days, way back two years ago, when my argument for sortition as the superior means to select office-holders was tongue-in-cheek gadfly/troll behavior. Today, though, there's basically solid empirical evidence for the superiority of sortition to our current system.

Thanks, Trump.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:06 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jonathan Livengood: The problem is massive levels of inequality in the U.S. combined with the fact that the scores being reported are averages.

So in other words thank the GOP.

You make an important point, of course, and my own foray into research on this subject focused on poor schools in poor places. But even so, and just anecdotally, I've been teaching America's bright and wealthy for a couple of decades, albeit in a self-selecting humanities department, so plenty of bias already....but even a lot of upper middle class to quite wealthy white kids who get into an Ivy League school surprise me with lack of knowledge of science, math, and computing beyond the desktop interface. And there's a reason the top engineering schools have huge numbers of recent immigrants and foreign nationals in their ranks. Anyway you're absolutely right about adjustment for wealth which was why my colleague and I told GE we couldn't make a case for more music in poor schools that didn't even have one really well trained math or science teacher.
posted by spitbull at 3:12 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm fighting the urge to be optimistic about that WaPo article that Secret Life of Gravy linked - "Senate GOP and White House plan final, urgent blitz to pass health-care law".
"McConnell is expected to place greater responsibility on Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) to pitch his controversial amendment that would allow insurers to offer plans that don’t meet ACA requirements — provided they also offer some that do. McConnell could ask Cruz to speak to Republican senators as soon as Tuesday, according to a person familiar with his strategy. ...

Cruz stands to be left responsible for the success or failure of a conservative amendment that could alienate other Republicans or undermine the special protections allowing the bill to pass along GOP party lines."
Am I missing something? Putting all the responsibility for passage on Ted Cruz' powers of persuasion seems like a way to strangle this baby in its crib.
posted by msalt at 3:31 PM on July 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Indivisible OH 12 cellphone video of arrests at Sen. Portman's office

Columbus police begin acting in line with police procedure around the 10m mark.
posted by petebest at 3:41 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Why Single-Payer Health Care Saves Money (NYTimes Economic View)

It's really simple.
posted by mumimor at 3:44 PM on July 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


The Columbus police are egregiously bad. I have seen stats (from Bob Fitrakis) showing that CPD has more officer-involved shootings per capita than any other police department in the US. I can name four young black men and teenagers killed by CPD in the past two years. And, I have been disgusted with Rob Portman in the past two years that he's been my congressperson. I'm so angry, and although I'm so glad that's no longer where I'm calling home, I wish I was still Portman's constituent so I could do something about it.
posted by ChuraChura at 3:50 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Today I got an email from the Iowa Democratic Party urging me to go to Joni Ernst's town hall on Monday. In the past, I've pretty much only gotten fundraising emails from them, so this feels really significant, like maybe they're at least starting to see that the grassroots activist groundswell is important and not something they should ignore. On the other hand, it's kind of sad that this feels like a departure.

I can't go to the stupid town hall, because it's at 8:00 in the morning on a weekday, and it's in rural far western Iowa. It's also the only town hall that either of our Republican senators are having during the recess. They really, really don't want to hear from their constituents.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:54 PM on July 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


officer-involved shootings

Officers discharging their weapon, or officers being shot at? These are very different things, and I don't like the Newspeak terminology "officer-involved shooting."

(ChuraChura, I know it wasn't your intent to mirror the attitudes behind this terminology, and that you were probably just using the language used in the stats reports.)
posted by dhens at 3:55 PM on July 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


avoiding any criticism of Russia’s war in Ukraine, .... and of the crackdown on political dissent inside Russia itself
(emphasis mine) hahahahahahahahahahah...........throws up.
posted by adamvasco at 3:57 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Seriously, just what do you think the problem with nepotism IS, if not "unqualified people get put in positions due to being related to someone in power"?

That's often the problem with nepotism. But another problem is being able to wield outsized influence relative to your position in the "chain of command", if you will, based on your personal relationship with the person in power. This issue exists independently of whether you're objectively qualified for your position.
posted by Brak at 3:58 PM on July 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


I Was At The Health Care Protest In Senator Portman’s Office. Here’s What I Saw. (Kathryn Poe, Huffpost, 7/7/17)

The protest started around 9 a.m., and, although there was police present, was peaceful in the morning. . . But by the time I’d gotten home, the tone of the protests had changed. Apparently, protesters had somehow managed to take another staircase or elevator, and the situation had changed. An employee was trying to get out, and she wasn’t able to get out of the building. Another person texted me and told me that they had left as well.

Soon afterward, the Columbus Police Department told protesters that there was someone in the building having an emergency, although that’s up for debate. As soon as protesters complied, the police took advantage of the situation and literally began dragging people out of the building.

By this time, I was at home, watching everything unfold from Facebook Live. People being thrown across the room dragged out of chairs and thrown on the ground. One woman, in particular, was thrown flat on her face in the middle of the crowd. Police were over aggressive, and people were screaming in the background.

Finally, after they had dragged everyone outside, they put them all in a circle on the ground and zip-tied people behind their backs. One man, who was deaf, was separated from the group without an interpreter and put in a police car. In the end, two wheelchairs were left behind at the scene — meaning that people were forced into cars without their mobility. According to reports, 15 people were arrested.

posted by petebest at 4:37 PM on July 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Able to wield outsized influence relative to your position in the "chain of command"

And then there is the outsized influence the family member who hired you may be able to wield over you. As we saw with Comey -- it is not necessarily appropriate for people to feel personal loyalty to their superiors (as opposed to loyalty to the organization.)

From family, Trump presumably gets that loyalty without even asking. And they can't even resign to escape his influence. It is very hard to resign from your family.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:54 PM on July 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


I apologize for typing imprecisely and not linking directly to the source. According to this, Columbus has the second-highest rate of killings by police, after Las Vegas.
posted by ChuraChura at 4:55 PM on July 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


"This Left is more likely to participate in a public shaming than to lobby for a new law; it is more likely to mobilize to occupy a park or shut down a freeway than to register voters."
I have no idea who he's counting as "the left," but I'm 99.99999% certain that I've registered more voters than Conor Friedersdorf has. I wouldn't be surprised if I'd registered more voters in a single day than Conor Friedersdorf ever has.


The left is more likely to have its organizations attacked by politically funded fraudsters, right wing media bullhorns and shut down despite no criminal wrong-doing whatsover. In fact the left's organizations are so successful at what they do they must be prohibited.
posted by srboisvert at 5:22 PM on July 8, 2017 [35 favorites]


it is not necessarily appropriate for people to feel personal loyalty to their superiors

That's why the president swears to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States," and other government officials swear to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same." We don't do Nazi-style personal oaths.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:59 PM on July 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


Exactly, when I entered the federal service I swore allegiance to the Constitution, not the President or Secretary of my agency. That's really important. I work for the American people, not a politician.
posted by wintermind at 6:10 PM on July 8, 2017 [50 favorites]


There's also the issue that a typical government employee may take great personal and professional risks by blowing the whistle on something improper, but at least their boss normally can't disinherit them from an international real estate/hotel/golf club firm.
posted by zachlipton at 6:23 PM on July 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


Representatives of Donald Trump Jr. and Mr. Kushner confirmed the meeting after The Times approached them with information about it. In a statement, Donald Jr. described the meeting as primarily about an adoption program. The statement did not address whether the presidential campaign was discussed.

Yeah, because what did Kushner, Manafort and Don, Jr. have in common last year except for adoption
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:07 PM on July 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


The story with this "adoption" meeting keeps getting weirder.

@HallieJackson: NEW: spox for POTUS outside legal team casts mtg as part of oppo effort. Source close to team calls it "poss. setup by Russian operatives" [statement of Trump outside counsel inside link]

So the story started with "we have no ties to Russia" and then it was "it's no big deal, we were just talking about adoption, a subject we all care deeply about, because who doesn't take time out of a busy Presidential campaign to chat about adoptions from Russia, an issue we talked about so much during the campaign" and now it's "yeah, we really were setup by Russian operatives who misrepresented themselves, but that's the fault of the Democrats."

For people who maintain they've done nothing wrong, it is amazing how much their story shifts on an hourly basis.
posted by zachlipton at 7:38 PM on July 8, 2017 [65 favorites]


Donald Jr. described the meeting as primarily about an adoption program.

LOLWUT

In his statement, Donald Trump Jr. said: “It was a short introductory meeting. I asked Jared and Paul to stop by. We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at the time and there was no follow up.

Oh sure, ask the campaign manager and the patsy to drop by for a chat with a noted Kremlin operator. Way cazhe. "Yo Forté, J-Ku, swing by for the 411 on an issue that has no bearing whatsoever on our all-consuming run for the Presidency! Bring beer! Ha haaaaa!"

But a quick internet search would have revealed Ms. Veselnitskaya as a formidable operator with a history of pushing the Kremlin’s agenda. Most notable is her campaign against the Magnitsky Act, which provoked a Cold War-style, tit-for-tat row with the Kremlin when President Barack Obama signed it into law in 2012.

Under the law, some 44 Russian citizens have been put on a list that allows the United States to seize their American assets and deny them visas. The United States asserts that many of them are connected to fraud exposed by Mr. Magnitsky, who after being jailed for more than a year was found dead in his cell. . . .

“She’s not just some private lawyer,” Mr. Browder said of Ms. Veselnitskaya. “She is a tool of the Russian government.”


So, Kremlin, dirty money and corruption on an obscene level? *snf* Ahhhh probably coincidence. #MAGA!

Remember when this level of overt Collusion, Fraud, and Treason would have taken down a President? God, we are the dumbest fuckers on the planet. And we'll display that for hours tomorrow on the "Sunday Talk Shows". If Stephanopolous doesn't come out in juggalo makeup and drive a pickaxe through Chuck Todd's head, I will again be dissapointed.
posted by petebest at 7:43 PM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Profiles In Courage: Paul Ryan says he won't do town halls any more.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:45 PM on July 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


"yeah, we really were setup by Russian operatives who misrepresented themselves, but that's the fault of the Democrats."

Actually they claim that the person who set up the meeting was associated with Fusion GPS. This is the oppo research group (originally hired by Republicans) to construct what later became the Steele Dossier. It appears they brought Steele onto their team in June 2016 (and also switched from Republican-backed funding to Democratic-backed funding).

BUT. If you look at the Fusion GPS wiki page, you see that they were also defending Prevezon in a money laundering case (a case being prosecuted by Preet Bharara, and recently settled just after his firing). As it says in the NYTimes article, the owner of Prevezon was a client of Natalia Veselnitskaya, the lawyer in the meeting with Trump, Kushner, and Manafort.

What a tangled web.
posted by pjenks at 8:53 PM on July 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Charleston Gazette-Mail: Capito comes out against Cruz amendment.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:55 PM on July 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Sharp piece by Australian journo Chris Uhlmann, ABC TV:
G20: Does Donald Trump's awkward performance indicate America's decline as world power?
Given the US was always going to be one out on climate change, a deft American President would have found an issue around which he could rally most of the leaders.

He had the perfect vehicle — North Korea's missile tests. So, where was the G20 statement condemning North Korea? That would have put pressure on China and Russia? Other leaders expected it and they were prepared to back it but it never came.

< snip >

... Mr Trump has pressed fast forward on the decline of the US as a global leader. He managed to diminish his nation and to confuse and alienate his allies. He will cede that power to China and Russia — two authoritarian states that will forge a very different set of rules for the 21st century.

Some will cheer the decline of America, but I think we'll miss it when it is gone. And that is the biggest threat to the values of the West which he claims to hold so dear.
posted by valetta at 9:07 PM on July 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


Uhlmann is a douchebag, but even stopped clocks etc etc...
posted by harriet vane at 9:11 PM on July 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Trump wants the US to appear to "decline as a world power." For one, a smaller, more ignorable country is easier to rule as a tyrant, that's why he's palling up with all the small country bad guys. Second, the nukes ain't going anywhere, so as long as nobody starts talking about "hey this tyrant-led country that has been humiliated on the world stage still has an attitude and a bunch of dangerous shit" and starting to want to sniff around with their Hans Blixes. All in all, Trump is making it so the next President can be worse.
posted by rhizome at 9:21 PM on July 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Uhlmann's piece is sharp, but listen closely when he talks about the Warsaw speech. It's pretty clear to me, without having ever heard anything else from this guy, that he was totally on board with Trump's declarations about "defending the values of the west" and just wishes Trump would stick to Bannon's script more closely instead of screwing up all the right wing values he holds so dear.

and starting to want to sniff around with their Hans Blixes

I believe the plural is Hanses Blix.
posted by zachlipton at 9:27 PM on July 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


I think the name for a group of Hanses Blix is a Hanseatic Bleague.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:30 PM on July 8, 2017 [54 favorites]


And Twitter just informs me that Uhlmann is tonight's Milkshake Duck [screencap of the paywalled article in which Uhlmann blamed "Frankfurt School academics fleeing Adolf Hitler's Germany" for bringing the "intellectual virus" of neo-Marxism to America and systematically destroying the country, and please do take a moment to ponder the religion of the academics he describes as you think about how fucked up this is to say.]
posted by zachlipton at 9:36 PM on July 8, 2017 [23 favorites]


Yeah, zachlipton, that was my sticking point when I first read it, then I re-read and thought his choice of the word "interesting" might be ironic, or might indicate fence-sitting rather than endorsement. Dunno. But I thought the rest of his observations pretty much on point.
posted by valetta at 9:36 PM on July 8, 2017


Oh yuck, I just read your Twitter link. Urgggh.
posted by valetta at 9:39 PM on July 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


None of that is to fault you for posting it valetta, as I do think it's an interesting piece, and Uhlmann's politics arguably make it more interesting. The sense I get from watching it is that this is a guy who is very much on board with Trump's view of the world, but wishes the resulting policies were being executed competently, because Trump's incompetence and angry tweets are weakening "Western Civilization."

I wonder if we're going to hear this view more from others on the right-wing elsewhere in the world. It's basically "love the fascism, but you're such a dumbass about it that you're ruining this for everyone."
posted by zachlipton at 9:45 PM on July 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


At least we knew Uhlmann was a potential milkshake duck before the official milkshake ducking.
posted by Yowser at 9:47 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


NeverTrumpers: Australian Bugaloo.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:54 PM on July 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


I come to these threads for the insights of people more politically astute than me, and am never disappointed.

[Nobody knew politics was this complicated!]
posted by valetta at 9:57 PM on July 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


a guy who is very much on board with Trump's view of the world, but wishes the resulting policies were being executed competently,

This guy. He's still everywhere - at varying degrees of awareness of Trump's malcompetence. Otherwise reasonably intelligent if not more so, occasionally generous and kind - still lamely holding out that "Trump's going to . . . ", or "It's because Trump believes that . . . ", as if those were things! As if Trump wasn't a hollow, sociopathic, racist fuckwit being led by the nose by other inept, racist clods. I marvel at this. Well, marvel and barf.

They're hanging in there though, with every campaign "promise" or "position" that begins to fold under the vastness of Trump's narcissism, a new reason emerges - and wouldn't you know it's the Deep State™ (you gotta say it with the cookie monster voice), or the obstructionist (!) Democrats, etc.

When's it going to kick in, Trumpers? Your cult leader will never change - this is as good as you're going to get right here, today. You're looking at it. It's like prognosticating what President Rock will do: still a rock . . still sort of just sitting there . . expect them to sit there some more, in a rock-like way . . . very . . lithic, lately . . . breaking news: the rock has been moved to a different part of the same general area . . .
posted by petebest at 5:10 AM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Quite the tweet storm this morning from Trump, and this one in particular is comedy gold:

@realDonaldTrump: Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded

Fox. Hen House. No worries! What's the bet Putin convinced Trump that the internet is really a little physical box that can be locked away in a safe and made impenetrable....
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:21 AM on July 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


They're going to protect election hacking and many other negative things?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:22 AM on July 9, 2017 [31 favorites]


This is fine.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:31 AM on July 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


I just don't get this joint cyber thing on any PR level at all. It feels like some weird plot from a Tim Burton Batman movie. 'Why yes, The Penguin and Christopher Walken have joined forces to protect the city.'
posted by angrycat at 5:45 AM on July 9, 2017 [39 favorites]


The only thing that will actually make the Internet more secure is a high level of international cooperation on policy across all nations, so that there's commitment to properly police criminal activity in one state when that activity is threatening other states. In other words, coordinated policing. And that is very difficult politics, because different countries consider different things criminal - if Russia decides to go after a human rights group in the US, claiming that it is subversively promoting homosexuality, then what?

Trump is constitutionally unable to frame any idea with those levels of abstraction. The sooner he's gone, the better, that much is obvious; what isn't obvious is how to kick the arses of those who can get rid of him to make them do so, and that is the most important thing right now.
posted by Devonian at 5:46 AM on July 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


I just don't get this joint cyber thing on any PR level at all. It feels like some weird plot from a Tim Burton Batman movie. 'Why yes, The Penguin and Christopher Walken have joined forces to protect the city.'

Maybe this is finally The Pivot?

Except it's a pivot from "No puppet, no puppet" to "Yeah, puppet, fuck you."
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:52 AM on July 9, 2017 [25 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Sanctions were not discussed at my meeting with President Putin. Nothing will be done until the Ukrainian & Syrian problems are solved!

So....carry on Putin....it's business as usual for the forseeable future? I kind of wonder if Putin has to pinch himself to make sure the G20 wasn't just some sort of hilarious fever dream.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 5:58 AM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


“working constructively with Russia” will be how he sells lifting sanctions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Probably. But who knows - this is a President who may think "lifting sanctions" means not being able to sell forklifts or barbells to them.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:05 AM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump is constitutionally unable to frame any idea with those levels of abstraction.

And there it is. That's exactly the problem with Trump and a lot of his supporters. They seem to have trouble with symbolic and abstract thought. Like, I think Trump and a lot of the supporters who click with him literally can't properly parse metaphors as metaphors and have problems with modes of thinking that aren't purely concrete and naively realist (in the philosophical sense). When they generalize, they make bad generalizations and struggle to think coherently and feel so cognitively overloaded, they latch defensively on to the simplest, most concrete, intuitively appealing and bias confirming beliefs and interpretations of events. More and more, it seems to me the true nature of the fascist mindset is a form of cognitive impairment that involves a breakdown in the normal function of high level, symbolic reasoning. That's why there's always this crude emphasis on muscular physicality and decisive action and so much suspicion and contempt for intellectualism and verbal reasoning in Fascistic movements. They believe in such a crude, hollowed out and purely material conception of reality, it's like their capacity for abstract reasoning never fully developed or broke somewhere along the way, so they feel personally challenged and threatened by it when others use those modes of thinking, the way some people feel really anxious about others around them speaking in a foreign language, worrying excessively they're being insulted or disrespected somehow because they can't understand the words.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:19 AM on July 9, 2017 [87 favorites]


'We'll talk to the White House and tell them to fix that': Putin is exploiting Trump's 'credibility deficit' (Natasha Bertrand, Business Insider)

Putin, who has been accused of assassinating Russian journalists and whose control of the Russian media is nearly absolute, held a press conference after the G20 where he implied on camera that the Kremlin held sway over the White House.

"We didn't meddle, just ask Trump," Putin told reporters. When one pointed out that the White House still hadn't released any proof one way or the other, Putin laughed and replied: "We'll talk to the White House and tell them to fix that."

In refusing to hold his own press conference, Trump allowed Putin's words - and the overall Russian narrative - to linger unchallenged until Sunday morning, when he tweeted that he "strongly pressed President Putin twice about Russian meddling in our election. He vehemently denied it."


Emphasis added. So, should we just hand over everything now, or how does that work?
posted by petebest at 6:25 AM on July 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


He is becoming more secretive. The press gaggle on AF1 was given almost nothing. Now he is tweeting out his version of what went on at the G20 and in particular his closed door meeting with Putin so that he won't have to give a press conference and answer questions. Even Putin gave a press conference.

One of the tweets he wrote this morning: " ...We negotiated a ceasefire in parts of Syria which will save lives. Now it is time to move forward in working constructively with Russia!" seems to indicate that our goals in Syria are different than they have been in the past. We are now going to allow Russia to decide what direction the Syrian war is going to go.

I was upset and scared when he won the election but this morning feels like a turning point. We are witnessing the sell out of our nation by our President to the Russians. I suppose DJT will get rewarded. I am very much afraid the GOP will do nothing.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:27 AM on July 9, 2017 [56 favorites]


I am very much afraid the GOP will do nothing.

They will do nothing, that's the only thing we can be sure of now. They are all 100% on board with the sell out in exchange for tax cuts. They have been from the beginning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:31 AM on July 9, 2017 [22 favorites]


Internet Protection Using Putin Protocols Engendering Trust.

I-PUPPET.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:06 AM on July 9, 2017 [29 favorites]


More and more, it seems to me the true nature of the fascist mindset is a form of cognitive impairment that involves a breakdown in the normal function of high level, symbolic reasoning.

I feel like it's faster to just call them stupid? Like I don't disagree, but...it's faster.

Also loling at the fact that your thought out explanation is exactly the kind of intellectualism that brand* of fascist distrusts. They know you're calling them stupid, but they don't get the details.

*I think people arrive at fascism by different paths, and some of them have the gloss of intellectual justification of essentially emotional (and morally repugnant) positions. But most of them are pretty dumb.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


[from guns.com so they probably don't need your traffic]: Lawmakers introduce SHUSH Act to classify suppressors as gun accessory

The Silencers Helping Us Save Hearing Act, backed in the Senate by Sens. Mike Lee of Utah and Mike Crapo of Idaho, and in the House by Iowa Congressman Steve King, would mandate that suppressors be treated the same as firearm accessories.

The bill, entered as S.1505 in the Senate and H.R.3139 in the House, would not only remove suppressors from National Firearms Act requirements — a goal of the rival Hearing Protection Act — but also classify them as simple accessories which could be sold over the counter.


This bill is definitely intended to protect people's hearing by putting up silencer vending machines in gas stations and is in no way meant to make it easier for lone wolves or paramilitaries to murder us.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:14 AM on July 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


The President of the United States is sufficiently stupid, and sufficiently uncontrolled by less stupid people in his vicinity, that he is able to come back from what was essentially a successful meeting with Putin (because no-one can know for sure what was discussed) and make the following tweets:

1) a tweet directly contradicting his Secretary of State's public comments on whether Russian sanctions were discussed, a matter of vital relevance to the criminal investigation which the president is currently under, leading to the appearance of an inept cover-up.
2) a tweet confirming that he plans to set up a Cyber Security unit with Putin, something which would otherwise seem like a bad joke, and which Republican senators are already calling the dumbest idea they've ever heard.

This is the presidency of unforced error.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:33 AM on July 9, 2017 [58 favorites]


which Republican senators are already calling the dumbest idea they've ever heard.

But will do nothing to prevent him from doing it anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2017 [25 favorites]


Haven't seen this nightmare posted yet, so...you're welcome?

Brian Slodysko for TPM: State Elections Officials Raise Concern about 2018 Election Security
posted by schadenfrau at 7:48 AM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


time to move on

So, a "reset button" then?
posted by spitbull at 7:52 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


What's a milkshake duck?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:03 AM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Twenty dollars, same as in town. Put it on my bill.
posted by spitbull at 8:08 AM on July 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


2) a tweet confirming that he plans to set up a Cyber Security unit with Putin, something which would otherwise seem like a bad joke, and which Republican senators are already calling the dumbest idea they've ever heard.

So long as he has "enough working digits to handle a pen", right guys?
posted by Talez at 8:12 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


which Republican senators are already calling the dumbest idea they've ever heard.

That's quite the threshold when you think about it - they must have heard some absolute clunkers coming out of the WH behind closed doors...
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:15 AM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Joshua Yaffa in The New Yorker: What Russian Journalists Think of How American Reporters Cover Putin and Trump
I also spoke with Roman Shleinov, an investigative editor at Novaya Gazeta, the newspaper that was home to Anna Politkovskaya, the fearless reporter killed in 2006, and which first broke the news of an anti-gay crackdown in Chechnya. Shleinov was the Russian coördinator for reporting on the Panama Papers, which revealed high cash flows to offshore accounts run by close Putin friends and associates. He told me that the U.S. press was unduly focussed on the particulars of real-estate deals surrounding Trump, parsing which Russians had purchased apartments from Trump or lived in buildings operating under the Trump name. “It’s hard to say for sure, but the idea that a Russian person who buys an apartment somewhere—say, in Trump Tower—is trying to get influence over someone, to me it seems strange,” Shleinov said.

The most important thing that U.S. reporters should remember, Shleinov told me, is that “money is fleeing Russia in all directions, people are trying to invest anywhere they can, to get their assets out before the secret services or their competitors show up and try and take them all.” On the whole, Shleinov said, a wealthy Russian—even a politically connected one—is likely buying real estate abroad “as a place to run to,” not on Putin’s orders.
[...]
Perhaps the most unexpected skeptic of U.S. coverage whom I talked to was Alexey Kovalev, who runs an online project called Noodleremover, a play on the Russian expression “to hang noodles on your ears,” which means to knowingly tell someone nonsense. The Web site is dedicated to debunking the most galling factual errors on Russian state media, with RT a regular and favorite target. Kovalev described himself to me as “one of RT’s biggest critics,” and added, “but I’m critical of what deserves to be criticized: namely, that RT is home to conspiracy theories, has a general disregard for objectivity, and gives a platform to lunatics to get on air.” But Kovalev is convinced that the channel’s reach and propaganda effect in the United States are minimal, and that the attention it has received is “absolutely oversized” compared to its actual power in affecting the American political agenda—which he said is basically zero.

“Bernie Sanders gave a forty-minute interview to RT,” Kovalev said, pointing me to comments in which the head of the channel, Margarita Simonyan, called Sanders the “coolest” candidate in last year’s campaign. “And nobody gave a shit. You know why? Because, in truth, nobody really watches RT.” He explained that the channel’s broadcast footprint in the United States is so small that it fails to register on the Nielsen ratings system. And when people do watch, they tend not to click on political content. A 2015 investigation by the Daily Beast showed that, on RT’s YouTube channel, “political news videos, featuring the content by which it seeks to shape Western opinion and thus justify its existence, accounted for a mere 1 percent of its total YouTube exposure.” Kovalev said that, these days, the biggest beneficiaries of all the undue attention are RT executives, Simonyan above all. “People in RT have been telling me it’s been six months of Christmas for them,” he told me.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:15 AM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


What's a milkshake duck?

two scoops of ice cream, milk and a duck - put in a blender and drink and you'll duck milkshakes for the rest of your life
posted by pyramid termite at 8:21 AM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump and Putin are going to find the real killer.
posted by lumnar at 8:30 AM on July 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


(spoiler)



the real killer is a duck - a duck that drinks milkshakes
posted by pyramid termite at 8:36 AM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


This video Trump tweeted about the summit is... something.
posted by box at 8:46 AM on July 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


That song is really something.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 8:52 AM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


More background and lyrics to the song - if you can stomach it....
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:56 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


You laugh now. Just wait until kids are singing that goddamn song in elementary school.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:56 AM on July 9, 2017 [22 favorites]


This video Trump tweeted about the summit is... something.

Looks like a case of early-onset Dear Leaderism.
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 8:57 AM on July 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


To be fair, I'd hesitate to call it stupidity because I sympathize a little. Contemporary life necessarily involves so much symbolic reasoning now and the baseline load of that mode of thinking minimally required to navigate and function successfully in the world has increased so rapidly as we've moved our lives online, I almost feel like it's a pretty inevitable consequence of those technological and cultural changes, like we're all just animals having the limits of a certain subset of our evolved mental capacity tested in unprecedented and unpredictable ways by the accelerated pace of technological and cultural change.

Then other times I just feel like, Naw, fuck those assholes (but that also makes me feel a little guilty sometimes because I'm not sure it's really their fault).
posted by saulgoodman at 9:03 AM on July 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


The good news, such as it is, is that Trump has such a short attention span (and he's so easily manipulated) that in a few minute he will have forgotten about the brilliant plan Putin gave him to partner with Russia on the tough issue of Russia hacking our elections.

One of the very few good things about having a senile Alzheimer's victim as President [1] is that if the Republicans really do hate one of his horrible ideas they can probably soothe him down until he forgets it was his idea and then convince him that Obama thought of it so he'll hate it.

Otherwise I think the most horrifying thing to come from the G20 summit is that Ivanka, in violation of every anti-nepotism law that exists, was Trump's representative at several talks. And, of course, that Trump was too tired, stupid, having a bad Alzheimer's day, whatever to bother attending several talks that were supposed to involve heads of state.

But seriously, how did we fall so far so fast as a nation? Junior was awful, but he wasn't putting Jenna and Barbara out there in quasi-defined governmental positions as if somehow it was legitimate for them to be holding power just because he was their dad.

We've got a wannabe dictator trying to install his kin as the royal family, and the Republicans are **STILL** content to just let it happen.

Surely we can parlay this into enough outrage to take back at least one house of Congress in 2018. We can't be the only Democrats out there utterly enraged and infuriated at the Trump's so blatantly looting the country and violating our basic principles of representative democracy, there's got to be enough of us that we can muster the work and effort it takes to beat back the tide of evil in 2018.

[1] For several years after my father died I'd have moments where I was operating normally and then something would remind me that he was dead and it would hit me all over again that he really was dead and I'd never see him again.

I'm experiencing something similar with the idea of Trump as President. I'm normally able to cope fairly well, but every now and then something will really make it sink home that enough of my fellow Americans are evil scumfucking bigots and traitors they actually voted for him to bring the count close enough that he was able to steal the election and it's like 11/9 all over again. I expect in a year or two it will pass, but in the meantime yeesh.
posted by sotonohito at 9:05 AM on July 9, 2017 [45 favorites]


Like the mighty eagle that is rising on the wind
Soaring t’ward our destiny
Hearts and voices blend
With a mighty melody oh let the song begin
And make America great again

[Check out sex tape]

posted by Rust Moranis at 9:05 AM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


That song. Holy crap. I don't know which part I like better, the bit in the middle where it sounds like it's going to modulate but instead the rhythm section fumbles for half a measure and then steps on the vocals, or the bit towards the end where the chorus steals the melody from "Tomorrow Belongs To Me."
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:08 AM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


I assume this song is one of those symphonies Trump's been writing recently.
posted by dng at 9:11 AM on July 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Damn you MeFi, why, WHY did you make me curious enough to listen to that song?

Also, while I guess I understand the power of a phrase like "Make America Great Again" for its target audience... isn't it the absolute worst slogan as an anthem? By definition it screams non-greatness and inferiority. Properly conceived nationalistic anthems say "We ARE great, obviously!", not "We're not great, let's be great again"—that's what fucking losers say.

I know there's no point in looking for reason in MAGAstan, but when I, as an atheist lefty-liberal social democrat, can out-authoritarian the pros, I feel like sometimes... they're just not trying.
posted by Rykey at 9:14 AM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


i had no idea someone dug up "up with people" from the graveyard and made them sing again
posted by pyramid termite at 9:14 AM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Gack! That was the ipecac of videos, believe you me. Just seeing that idiotic face brings on reverse peristalsis. In case of poisoning, watch this video.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:16 AM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


also, it's the worst translation of deutschland uber alles i've ever read and they screwed up the melody, too
posted by pyramid termite at 9:18 AM on July 9, 2017 [18 favorites]


@PreetBharara: When pursuing a corrupt politician, mobster or murderer on strong FBI evidence, if he "vehemently denied it," we just dropped it usually.

Maybe Preet Bharara should run for public office?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:24 AM on July 9, 2017 [45 favorites]


On top of everything else, giving up a position of leadership on the world stage and effectively ceding my nation's sovereignty to the country that my political party's spiritual leader "defeated" within living memory in return for some tax cuts seems like a really lousy deal...but I'm not a Republican politician, so what do I know?
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:34 AM on July 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


I don't know you guys, maybe letting our enemy know our every capability and defensive procedure, and even vote on which ones we use, are you sure that's a bad idea?
posted by ctmf at 9:34 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bush: Did you destroy our Towers?
Bin Laden: No.
Bush: Ok I believe you. We shall build an anti-terrorism unit together to stop attacks.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 AM on July 9, 2017 [94 favorites]


The Hill: During an interview on CBS's "Face The Nation," McCain was asked about President Trump's earlier tweet in which the president said he talked with Putin during their meeting about creating an "impenetrable Cyber Security unit" to guard against election hacking.

"I'm sure that Vladimir Putin could be of enormous assistance in that effort since he is doing the hacking," McCain said, laughing.


ha ha ha so funny ha ha ha fuck you
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:34 AM on July 9, 2017 [67 favorites]


the real killer is a duck - a duck that drinks milkshakes

Well now I'm back on his side

Go, duck, go
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:44 AM on July 9, 2017


Also, according to Trump's tweets, Putin was really concerned about why the DNC didn't cooperate fast enough with the FBI


In case you weren't already uncertain this was actually happening
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:56 AM on July 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


pyramid termite: i had no idea someone dug up "up with people" from the graveyard and made them sing again

Except that they've been rebranded as "Up YOURS, People!"
posted by hangashore at 9:56 AM on July 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Also, according to Trump's tweets, Putin was really concerned about why the DNC didn't cooperate fast enough with the FBI


In case you weren't already uncertain this was actually happening


Actually, I think that was exactly what happened. Putin, ex-KGB agent, knows Trump is a sad, lonely old man who is obsessing about a handful of details from the election that even his kids don't want to go into anymore. During those two hours, he let Trump go on and on, and listened sympathetically, now and then inserting a "the nerve!", or "Hillary is a crook!" or "I can't believe the DNC haven't cooperated with the FBI yet", and several times: "I admire your election results, you will be a historic president, and under your leadership, peace will come to the Middle East, and America will be a great nation again. I'd be honored to help". Or, you know, something similar. Tillerson knows better than to meddle - after all, he wants to do business with the Russians and he doesn't give a shit about Trump or America.
posted by mumimor at 10:07 AM on July 9, 2017 [38 favorites]


Rykey Also, while I guess I understand the power of a phrase like "Make America Great Again" for its target audience... isn't it the absolute worst slogan as an anthem? By definition it screams non-greatness and inferiority.

One of the defining characteristics of Fascism is a belief in a cult of national humiliation, a belief that the heroic people of [insert nation here] are being duped, tricked, outplayed, humiliated, and generally fucked over by the vile forces of [insert enemy group here].

if you haven't read Enrico Eco's seminal essay "Ur-Fascism", I can't recommend highly enough that you read it. Or if you read it a while back, a re-read is a good idea in these dark times.

To say "we're a great nation doing great things" is, perversely, not all that authoritarian at all because it gives no emotional hook to the would be Rambo types. Fascism, especially, and all authoritarianism to a somewhat lesser extent, relies on the populous believing in their own heroism and goodness and the easiest way to rile that up is to invoke an enemy (or, better a pair of enemies, one external one internal) who are holding them back. That way Bubba can feel all macho and tuff and many potential enemies of the state can be co-opted into fighting the approved enemies rather than the state.

Even more important conservatism is, pretty much by definition, a political ideology of losers.

I don't mean that in the Trumpian sense, but rather in the sense of "people who have lost something". That's why conservatism appeals to some people, it reminds them of what they lost and gives them the promise of regaining it.

This is why in America conservatism is a political ideology mostly held by white, Christian, men. Because of all groups in America they have lost the most.

Now, most of what they have lost has been unearned, undeserved, and unfair privilege. Some of us white, cis, straight, men believe that losing all that was good and just. But it was lost. Once, in living memory for some, being a white, straight, cis, Christian, man put you at the top of the heap. You may not have been rich, but at least you were better than women. And blacks. And non-Christians. And gay people.

Like MLK said in his address at the conclusion of the Selma to Montgomery march, many white people were taught to eat Jim Crow when they couldn't afford real food.

Jim Crow is getting to be less and less filling though.

And that loss, a loss of something real if undeserved and unjust, is what motivates the huge appeal of conservatism among white American men.

Throughout history conservatism has always been the ideology of those who have suffered a loss. Things, for them, in their mind, used to be better. So they want to return to the good old days.

That's why "Make America Great Again" resonates so strongly with Trump's voters. Because to their mind America isn't great anymore, but it used to be. They long for a return to an era when those things they feel they have lost were present. They want white supremacy, naked and open patriarchy, Christian supremacy, an end to multiculturalism, and generally they want to be back at the top of the social heap. Poor maybe, but still able to look down on blacks, women, gay people, non-Christians, and so on as less than them. They long for the comforting taste of Jim Crow to tell them that while they may not have money they are at least white.

The book, The Reactionary Mind by Corey Robin goes into detail on how through history conservatism is the philosophy of the losers. Again, not in the Trumpian "ha ha look at those losers" sense, but in the sense of "those who have lost something".

Those who hope to gain something tend towards liberalism.
posted by sotonohito at 10:15 AM on July 9, 2017 [83 favorites]


Christ, that video. I played it with the sound turned off because I remember the horrors of "Let The Eagle Soar", but the way this administration's "accomplishments" are being presented to the public is straight out of Despotic Rule 101. Remember the wingnut outrage over this shit? Except that so-called "indoctrination" song came from the teachers and students, not the administration. Just imagine the rending of garments that would be happening if the Obama White House released a video with a choir singing some patriotic "Yes We Can" song with Ken Burns effect transitions between photos of him looking Presidential at a summit where he didn't actually do anything except maybe commit to sharing cyber intelligence with a hostile foreign power. We could have sent an exploration team to Mars powered by the wingnut ragegasms.

If we survive this, we're going to need an entire four-year Presidential term where all new features are frozen and we just fix the critical vulnerabilities that led to this infection. All of the redundant systems we have in place -- checks and balances, the "deep state", the press, the myth of "faithless electors" -- they've all failed to prevent this.

In retrospect, refreshing this thread this morning was a really bad idea. Time to take a walk.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:20 AM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Also, according to Trump's tweets, Putin was really concerned about why the DNC didn't cooperate fast enough with the FBI

His tweet says "questions were asked" about the DNC server thing but not who did the asking. That wily passive voice!
posted by theodolite at 10:24 AM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Thanks to his enablers worldwide, over next couple years, Trump is going to go from fake billionaire to bonafide billionaire. What happens when he really, actually has fuck you money?
posted by klarck at 10:28 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, he already has fuck you nukes and and the Fuck You CIA so I'm not sure he needs the money.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:30 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Protesters Surround KKK Gathering In Charlottesville
Despite urging from the city's mayor to ignore the racist group, about 1,000 people showed up to protest a few dozen members of the Ku Klux Klan who gathered in Charlottesville, Va. Saturday.

Klan members had called for a rally to oppose the city's plans to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee, the Confederate general. About 30 to 50 Klan members were escorted by police to and from the city's Justice Park.

But counterprotesters surrounded and largely drowned out the small group of Klan members.
I'm kind of relieved that on short notice that racists can be outnumbered 20-to-1.
posted by Talez at 10:35 AM on July 9, 2017 [55 favorites]


Wow, great reply to my comment, sotonohito. Thanks, I'll check those out. I knew Hitler touched on how Germany had been weakened by its (identified) enemies in some of his speeches, but I didn't know it was so central to fascist ideology.

Good to know I really am a shitty authoritarian after all.
posted by Rykey at 10:41 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


mumior, I'm 100% on board with this. There is no way Trump can sit and discuss boring policy back and forth for two hours. This was a massive vent and rage fest and all Putin had to do was gently assure him he is #1 big cheese, while Russian Order of Fellowship awardee Tillerson sat there glassy eyed dreaming of dollar signs.
posted by PenDevil at 10:43 AM on July 9, 2017 [13 favorites]




Milkshake Duck, from know your meme.
posted by spitbull at 11:00 AM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


So, Trump's response to the allegation of Russian hacking elections:

Order all states to compile election information in a central location.

Agree to work with Russia on cybersecurity.

Last Russian president election: Putin 63.6%, second place, 17.3%.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:01 AM on July 9, 2017 [27 favorites]


Three term president, I tell you.
posted by Artw at 11:05 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


sotonohito: if you haven't read Enrico Eco's seminal essay "Ur-Fascism", I can't recommend highly enough that you read it. Or if you read it a while back, a re-read is a good idea in these dark times.

It's Umberto Eco. #pedant
posted by Superplin at 11:13 AM on July 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


I feel like it's faster to just call them stupid? Like I don't disagree, but...it's faster.

While certainly quicker and easier, this only perpetuates the terrible cycle we're already in, of habitually and reflexively otherizing one another. I think saulgoodman makes an important point: it's not that (e.g.) Trump supporters are stupid per se, it's that there may very well be a problem we've unintentionally created for ourselves. Our world, symbolically and practically, has evidently grown in complexity and sophistication too quickly for many people to keep up, which doesn't make them stupid so much as the rest of us lucky that we're able to understand and adapt.

If any version of that is going on, the regular and predictable reaction from many will be (and apparently, is) fear. If we can understand that we're experiencing words and actions from people that are expressions of fear, we can react more effectively and appropriately without demonizing or otherizing giant groups of human beings for any reason.

If, however, this is totally beanplating everything and some people are just stupid and lash out when they feel threatened, I still don't think we should reduce a whole lot of human beings to the label of 'stupid,' because it's dehumanizing and is an essential first step to making the value of those lives negotiable.

Whatever it is that's going on, there is great value in trying to understand the 'what' as clearly as possible, to provide the best chance of finding desirable, sustainable solutions. If people are overwhelmed by modern life, communication, culture, etc., then we can find ways to respond to that. If people are, instead, either stupid or ignorant, then we we can find ways to respond to that; either way, the better we understand what, exactly, is driving this awful, destructive behavior, the better we can respond to it and change it.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:18 AM on July 9, 2017 [18 favorites]


Who Do We Think Of as Poor? Tracie McMillan at the NYTimes.
The people who depict the poor, in other words, are unlikely to have much proximity to poverty themselves. What poverty they do see is usually black or brown. And that makes them more likely to repeat stereotypes about the poor than to interrogate them.

Covering poverty as if it is predominantly a black issue is a problem. It’s a problem because it can suggest that black suffering is a natural fact rather than a manufactured problem we should correct. It’s a problem because it fosters resentment against communities of color from economically struggling whites, who have some reason to feel their hardship is played down. And this all creates a political problem: the obliteration of the common ground that being poor can help illuminate across racial lines.
posted by mumimor at 11:27 AM on July 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


Enrico Eco was Umberto's younger brother, the opera singer. He was famous for singing arias while reading the music backwards over his shoulder with a mirror and shattering glass eyeballs with his low F.
posted by spitbull at 11:31 AM on July 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Also not to be confused with Eco Enrico.
posted by spitbull at 11:33 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Wrote a new palindrome for (and quoting) President Trump:

Putin's tool: "Loot! Snit up!"
posted by msalt at 11:40 AM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sooo this Milkshake Duck... I am not seeing images of an actual duck drinking a milkshake. Is this a theoretical duck? What is reality even I feel like I've been robbed.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 11:41 AM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


If people are overwhelmed by modern life, communication, culture, etc., then we can find ways to respond to that. If people are, instead, either stupid or ignorant, then we we can find ways to respond to that; either way, the better we understand what, exactly, is driving this awful, destructive behavior, the better we can respond to it and change it.

What if they're driven by hatred of Democrats stoked daily by a vast institutional political/propaganda apparatus which they have no ability or desire to question?

Because that's the most likely and obvious cause.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:28 PM on July 9, 2017 [27 favorites]


Oh so geese are racist now?
posted by Artw at 12:37 PM on July 9, 2017


Protesters Surround KKK Gathering In Charlottesville

I feel like I'm more worried than ever in this day and age of another Greensboro massacre, when Klan protesters and counter-protesters clash.
posted by Brak at 12:45 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Republicans know that their current level of control over Congress and state governments, growing control of the Court system and kinda-the-Presidency has been based on ratfucking the system on every level. The party as a whole was part-Fascist part-Mafia long before Trump's corporate takeover (which makes Putin a natural ally). They are not going to let a sudden outbreak of scruples get in their way of further success, but IF they are in serious danger of losing power AND they can blame it on Dumb Donald, he'll be escorted out the White House Back Door quickly. Of course, that would put Mike Pence in a mostly-symbolic Presidency, but he'd be able to attract more competent evildoers to the Executive Branch and that would indeed be worse. Still, the 'partnership' with Russia is probably seen, at least privately while they express open 'concerns', as a step toward helping them hold onto their power.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:46 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh so geese are racist now?

Not the Canada ones. #NotAllGeese
posted by spitbull at 12:58 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Because that's the most likely and obvious cause.

Anger is one of the easiest emotions to manipulate. Its effects completely bypass the frontal lobe and its higher reasoning/impulse control capabilities. It doesn't have to be one one or the other since a synergy of both makes more sense anyway. It's seemed pretty obvious from the start all the angriest voters don't exactly have consistent motives, reasons, or even individual targets for their anger.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:02 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


WikiLeaks proposes Assange to lead Trump’s US-Russia cyber security unit
“Why not put @JulianAssange in charge of it? He's trusted by the public and has the CIA's best stuff anyway,” WikiLeaks tweeted, replying to Trump’s tweet announcing he and Russian President Vladimir Putin discussed the idea.
posted by octothorpe at 1:17 PM on July 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


So you know that ever-changing story about the "adoption" meeting? It's changed again. NYT: Trump’s Son Met With Russian Lawyer After Being Promised Damaging Information on Clinton
President Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before agreeing to meet with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer during the 2016 campaign, according to three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.
...
The meeting — at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, two weeks after Donald J. Trump clinched the Republican nomination — points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlin’s meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. The accounts of the meeting represent the first public indication that at least some in the campaign were willing to accept Russian help.

It is unclear whether the Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, actually produced the promised compromising information about Mrs. Clinton. But the people interviewed by The Times about the meeting said the expectation was that she would do so.

In a statement on Sunday, Donald Trump Jr. said he had met with the Russian lawyer at the request of an acquaintance. “After pleasantries were exchanged,” he said, “the woman stated that she had information that individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and supporting Ms. Clinton. Her statements were vague, ambiguous and made no sense. No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

He said she then turned the conversation to adoption of Russian children and the Magnitsky Act, an American law that blacklists suspected Russian human rights abusers. The law so enraged Mr. Putin that he retaliated by halting American adoptions of Russian children.

“It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting.” Mr. Trump said.
posted by zachlipton at 1:37 PM on July 9, 2017 [62 favorites]


How is that statement supposed to help him? "I went to the meeting to TRY and collude with the Russians, but it turns out they didn't have anything on Clinton after all."
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:47 PM on July 9, 2017 [47 favorites]


So all that COLLUSION IS NOT A CRIME! stuff a few weeks ago must have been because the NYT had started asking the Trumpistas for comment in response to this story.
posted by Justinian at 1:47 PM on July 9, 2017 [26 favorites]


The explanation of how this came to light is fascinating to me. The story says:
The fact of the Trump Tower meeting was disclosed to government officials in recent days, when Mr. Kushner, who is also a senior White House aide, filed a revised version of a form required to obtain a security clearance.

The Times reported in April that he had failed to disclose any foreign contacts, including meetings with the Russian ambassador to the United States and the head of a Russian state bank. Failure to report such contacts can result in a loss of access to classified information and even, if information is knowingly falsified or concealed, in imprisonment.

Mr. Kushner’s advisers said at the time that the omissions were an error, and that he had immediately notified the F.B.I. that he would be revising the filing.
But in the first paragraph, the description of the meeting's topic is sourced to:
according to three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.
Now, "three advisers to the White House" is a broad category, and the Times could be playing cute with its sourcing by describing intelligence officials that way, but the implication is certainly that the leak is coming in part from Trump appointees. And if White House advisors have decided to say screw it, we'll admit collusion if it helps us take down Kushner, that's both completely insane and totally plausible for these people.

Also, what the hell Jared? You filled out your security clearance paperwork in what, January? And you got around to filing a new one a few days ago? That's not suspicious at all.

HI ZACH

HI! Honestly, I've been away from my computer most of the day and happened to just come back. I think the universe wants us to do this to each other.
posted by zachlipton at 1:48 PM on July 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


The superbly plainspoken Leonard Pitts, Jr. in The Miami Herald:
The Republican Party Has Flat Out Lost Its Mind.

A party that once provided a sober conservative counterweight to the Democrats’ more liberal impulses has flat out lost its mind, given itself over to rage, fear, schoolyard taunts and bizarre conspiracy theories. Which leaves me impatient with those who frame our political divide as if the issue were that left and right had equally abandoned the center. No fair observer can believe that.
posted by spitbull at 1:48 PM on July 9, 2017 [75 favorites]


I'm like 95% sure we'll hear this excuse from the White House in a few days: if Russian operatives were really colluding with our campaign, how come Barrack Obama didn't know about it and stop them?

This idea that Russia was supporting the DNC while simultaneously hacking and releasing party and campaign emails in an attempt to damage their reputation does seem very credible.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Republican Party Has Flat Out Lost Its Mind.

Reminds me of John Rogers' I Miss Republicans blog post from 2004.
My original point was -- Republicans used to be the guys who put the brakes on this shit. A sad chuckle, a little head shake. "Who's going to pay for this?" they'd say, frowning over national budgets. "Where are the facts? The research?" They'd take out their little red pens and buzzkill our little dreams of nationalized health care or solar-powered windmills or maglev trains, and then go back to banning pornography while secretly screwing around on their wives. But you know what? A lot of times, they were right.

We needed those guys. They were a dull but crucial part of the national dialogue. (And they knew their scotches. ) Now ... a void.
posted by MrVisible at 1:56 PM on July 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


if Russian operatives were really colluding with our campaign, how come Barrack Obama didn't know about it and stop them?

Because Mitch McConnell is a traitor to the United States of America.
posted by PenDevil at 2:01 PM on July 9, 2017 [93 favorites]


The meeting was also attended by his campaign chairman at the time, Paul J. Manafort, and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Mr. Manafort and Mr. Kushner only recently disclosed the meeting, though not its content

Those dumb, dumb motherfuckers.
posted by lydhre at 2:03 PM on July 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


solar-powered windmills

I mean, yeah, technically....
posted by biogeo at 2:17 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


This tweet didn't age well [from October 2016]:

@DonaldJTrumpJr: So Hillary lies to the people gets caught and now blames the Russians as opposed to owning her statements. No accountability!!!

This is a guy who has described the same meeting as never happening, being about adoption, and being about dirt on Clinton.
posted by zachlipton at 2:23 PM on July 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


Not sure if anyone mentioned yet that Ivanka Trump was literally America's Acting President for awhile during G20.

Like, the actual duties of the president.

This is Fine.
posted by Yowser at 2:24 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


The meeting — at Trump Tower on June 9, 2016, two weeks after Donald J. Trump clinched the Republican nomination — points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlin’s meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians.

This meeting's timing fits perfectly: It took place after the DNC hacking op concluded sometime in May but just three days before an ITV interview with Julian Assange in which he promised "upcoming leaks in relation to Hillary Clinton", which of course turned out to the DNC ones.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:24 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


I think Kushner is cooperating with the FBI. Someone who wrote about Flynn in the last thread seems to know more about this — they said that one of the things they agency does is make their informants (is this the term?) come clean. This would also explain that other people in the administration are now trying to paint Kushner in a bad light (can it be worse?).

Also, it's been said before: crooked and corrupt people think that everyone else is equally crooked and corrupt. That is how they defend themselves to themselves and their family. The Trump and Kushner families have both been operating on the edge of the law for generations, they have never known anything else. They have no idea how accountability works.
posted by mumimor at 2:25 PM on July 9, 2017 [18 favorites]


Emmarie Huetteman, NYT: North Carolina Shrugs as Its Senator Scrutinizes Russia
There has been a lot of local competition for attention. In the past three months, North Carolina has seen the repeal of its so-called bathroom ban, reinstating protections for transgender people; a budget standoff between its Democratic governor and Republican Legislature; and the rejection of part of its redistricting plan by the Supreme Court because of racial bias.

On top of that is, as it is elsewhere in the country, the Republicans’ plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. According to an analysis from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal-leaning research and advocacy group, about a million fewer North Carolinians would have health insurance if the law is repealed.

Local issues matter far more. “I think it takes some of the oxygen out of the room in terms of focus on that,” Mr. Barnett said.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:32 PM on July 9, 2017


So all that COLLUSION IS NOT A CRIME! stuff a few weeks ago must have been because the NYT had started asking the Trumpistas for comment in response to this story.

Hannity 22/6: If I knew Russians had damaging HRC info + I worked on Trump's campaign, would it be illegal for me to ask them to release?
posted by PenDevil at 2:45 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


So the First Baptist Church of Dallas choir is performing a song composed by the First Baptist Church of Dallas choir director, based on the campaign slogan of a current candidate for the 2020 Presidential Elections. This means they're at risk of losing their tax exempt status, right?
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:45 PM on July 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


What if they're driven by hatred of Democrats stoked daily by a vast institutional political/propaganda apparatus which they have no ability or desire to question?

There's a whole lot of assumption and otherizing in that giant, broad brush of a question, so I don't read it as a fair hypothetical, but regardless, my answer remains that we should all do all we can to understand, persuade, argue, block, bypass, even fight, but when both "sides" accept any framing that dehumanizes large groups of people, we have truly lost.

I have to pay close attention every day to refrain from otherizing and solipsism in my thinking and reactions to other people: those habits are reflexive and deep, which is unsurprising, considering that we've all been rigorously manipulated and conditioned to think and behave in those ways for around 75 years now. But it's toxic and we can no longer afford to indulge it.

They are not going to let a sudden outbreak of scruples get in their way of further success, but IF they are in serious danger of losing power AND they can blame it on Dumb Donald, he'll be escorted out the White House Back Door quickly.

I keep seeing this particular assumption all over the place in these threads: the Republicans are not the only actors here. They have all the bully pulpits, sure, and keep trying to bluster and obfuscate and misdirect and etc., but Mueller keeps hiring more people and will only speak (and, more importantly, act) when able and ready; everyone else in the world has their own agenda, and will also continue to exercise free will and act. This ridiculous unfolding series of events is completely beyond Republicans' control or, at this point, significant influence. There will be no narrative except after the fact, and there is no grand scheme or master plan, just a bunch of venal, selfish, greedy, amoral, dumb (etc.) people who--for the time being--have free reign to sow chaos. But reality will not accommodate nor indulge their narcisstic projections and wishes much longer, I expect.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:49 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


This means they're at risk of losing their tax exempt status, right?

Only if they perform it in the original Russian.
posted by PenDevil at 2:49 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


There's a remarkable piece in the New Yorker called America's Future is Texas.

It's extremely long and detailed and covers how Texas went from a state run by Democrats to a bipartisan-friendly legislature under Dubya to the redistricting that cemented Republican control and allowed absolute wingnuts to take over even as the state grows more liberal and progressive. I have to admit I haven't finished reading it yet. (Because LONG.) But it's really worth the time so far, especially if you have wondered how we got where we are. (Because Texas has served as a model for so many other states' GOP operatives.)

It also contains gems like this:
Mainstream Party officials were mortified when Morrow won the Travis County election, with fifty-six per cent of the vote. They promised to “explore every single option that exists” to remove him from office. Morrow responded, “They can go fuck themselves.” In June, he tweeted, “Top priority for Travis GOP: beautiful Big Titty women!!”
Yeah...the thesis statement of the article might as well be that Texas politics is BATSHIT. And apparently as goes Texas...
posted by threeturtles at 2:50 PM on July 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


An additional detail: the "acquaintance" who set up the meeting is someone Don Jr. knew from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant.

The current twitter speculation is that this could be Aras Agalarov or his son.
posted by zachlipton at 3:18 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


HI ZACH

*adjusts horizontal hold on zachlex/lalipton recursor*

Try it now!
posted by petebest at 3:34 PM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


I keep thinking about that bill full of new sanctions on Russia -- the one that passed 98-2 in the Senate. Per Matthew Yglesias, it's being held up by House leadership... meaning Paul Ryan.

And I feel like that 98-2 score in the Senate means there'd be a hell of a lot of pressure on Ryan to let it move forward. That, in turn, would lead to pressure in the House, 'cause there have to be plenty of House Republicans who'd support it given that Senate tally...except for how there's always a new outrage to suck up all the attention and relieve that pressure. And part of me thinks, sooner or later, that game will run out and Ryan will have to face this, publicly.

And then the other part of me thinks, "Why would there ever be a gap in the outrage? There's always something new and awful!"
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:40 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


From the NYTimes link
Mark Corallo, a spokesman for the president’s lawyer, said on Sunday that “the president was not aware of and did not attend the meeting.”
Does this sound at all likely to anyone? DJT's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager all went to a meeting to get dirt on Hillary and nobody thought to mention it to DJT? Then they came back from the meeting and Don, Jr. didn't have any amusing anecdotes to tell his father about the wild goose chase he was on?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:49 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


The same day that Don,Jr. went to that meeting, DJT held his first finance committee hearing, a meeting that Paul Manafort was at. Also Reince Priebus was in the tower that day. Just a coincidence, right?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:55 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Eh. I'm fully willing to believe that anyone who knows DJT well knew to not tell him anything about anything because he's a deranged fabulist with diarrhea of the mouth. I mean, would you tell that guy anything sensitive? I wouldn't. These assholes wanted to get him elected for their own shitty selfish reasons. You don't need to tell the tiger all the gory details in order to ride it and if it's dumb enough, it won't ask.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:58 PM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


how was I to know my two sons were conducting critical and dangerous skulduggery in the giant gold tower with my name on it
posted by theodolite at 3:59 PM on July 9, 2017 [56 favorites]


TPM Taking Stock of the Times Blockbuster
1. What I suspect is the most important detail in this story is the sources. The Times reports that they got the information from “three advisers to the White House briefed on the meeting and two others with knowledge of it.” They apparently talked after the release of the first story. This is highly, highly significant. Needless to say, advisors to the White House are not in the business of taking highly damaging stories and volunteering new information which makes them catastrophically damaging. The only reason a President’s allies ever do something like that is either to get ahead of something much more damaging or get a first crack at shaping the public understanding of something much more damaging. There’s really no other explanation. We don’t know yet what drove them to volunteer such highly damaging information. Five of them did it. It wasn’t a matter of one person going rogue.

2. The Times story doesn’t say whether any damaging information was provided to Trump Jr. It will be interesting to find out whether Veselnitskaya did share any such information.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:00 PM on July 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


Charlie Warzel, Infowarzel: 5 Thoughts About The Pro-Trump Media's War Against CNN
3. It highlights a new breed of Twitter harassment/trolling.

The example above — of Don Jr. spreading the rumor over Twitter that HanAssholeSolo was a 15-year-old — shows how Twitter's harassment problem has really changed — perhaps in an unenforceable way.

The pro-Trump media is excellent at swarming an issue or person. They have some really high profile accounts, too, which sort of set the tone (Don Jr) but don't actually harass/break the rules. They spread a level of misinformation (the 15-year-old rumor) which riles up the online army and gets the issue trending. And once the big surrogate accounts — anyone from Cernovich to Posobiec, to Don Jr. and many more — amplify the issue, it's often carried to extremes by people from places like Reddit or 4chan (which can result in doxxing and threats). And at the head of it all is Trump himself. But he's not directly involved.

A way I've been thinking of it is that Trump is like an assignment editor for the trolls. His message is filtered down to the big surrogates who use it to program the true fever swamps of Twitter and the message boards. The harassment, however, is usually done by anonymous trolls with burner accounts who'll just keep making more accounts because they have little to lose from having theirs suspended. It's a bit of a different brand of harassment from the 2016 campaign and before, which was much more of a blunt hammer approach where plenty of accounts (including Milo and Chuck Johnson weren't careful and broke the rules and lost their big accounts). It all begs the question: how on earth do you stop this if you're Twitter?

Abby Olheiser, WaPo: The Reddit user behind Trump’s CNN meme apologized. But #CNNBlackmail is the story taking hold.
The media has often struggled to cover Trump’s online supporters, whose skepticism of mainstream publications has evolved into a total rejection of the idea that places like CNN are even trying to report the truth. At the head of that rejection is the president himself, who regularly tweets that news outlets he doesn’t like are “fake news.” Media ethics experts who look at CNN’s article on all this might discuss it in the context of a long and tricky media discussion about outing anonymous, racist Internet trolls. On the Trump Internet, however, the subtext of the meme is that “blackmailing” sources is a normal part of mainstream journalistic practice. The difference is, they believe, that someone finally got caught.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:05 PM on July 9, 2017 [18 favorites]


Jesus, this story plus the concept of narcissistic injury is making DJT's latest frenzied tweeting sort of horribly understandable.
posted by angrycat at 4:05 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Zachliipton: An additional detail: the "acquaintance" who set up the meeting is someone Don Jr. knew from the 2013 Miss Universe pageant. The current twitter speculation is that this could be Aras Agalarov or his son.

You mean the Miss Universe contest in Russia, that Donald Trump Sr. attended?
posted by msalt at 4:05 PM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Tomorrow I'm going to call my two (very liberal) senators and ask them to submit a bill banning the Trump Administration from sharing any classified information about hacking with Russia. I urge everyone else to as well.

It might well pass (see 98-2 vote on sanctions and several Republicans criticizing the sharing plan today.) If not, Republicans who oppose should and will be cudgeled with their treasonous opposition.
posted by msalt at 4:07 PM on July 9, 2017 [45 favorites]


WaPo has released the name of the Russian go-between; Rob Goldstein.
posted by Justinian at 4:10 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dada wants to be president. He's pounding the table demanding the White House to show all the haters. Get it for him by any means necessary

Wow that makes so much sense because I do think that Don, Jr. has been firmly under his father's thumb all his life-- trying hard to win his father's approbation. Ivanka easily gets her father's praise and attention because DJT is turned on by her appearance but Don, Jr. has to work harder to get his dad to notice him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:12 PM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


That's according to CNN fwiw, I have no link.
posted by Justinian at 4:14 PM on July 9, 2017


More from that same Joy Reid thread:
What Russiagate winds up being at its shoddy, grubby core is the answer to the question: how do you win an election w/o your party's help?

How do you win when the data says you can't, and most Americans loathe you and your party officialdom are only going along out of cowardice?

How do you win without A-list consultants and advisers, because none will touch you? How do you win with a team of bloggers and trolls?

You use the Roger Stone rules: you do whatever grimy, slimy thing you can think of to win. If shady Russian biz is your thing? Go for it.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:18 PM on July 9, 2017 [49 favorites]


Rob Goldstein

minor correction - stein -> stone: Goldstone

Maybe the Trumps love rocks - Goldstone, Roger Stone, Bayrock, Bayrock Whitestone...
posted by p3t3 at 4:19 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh, thanks, either I misheard or CNN was being CNN.
posted by Justinian at 4:22 PM on July 9, 2017


Hard as it is to believe, we now have absolute proof that Donald Trump attempted to collude with the Russian government before the election, to undermine Hillary Clinton. Unfortunately, it's Donald Trump Junior. A decent start though!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:34 PM on July 9, 2017 [28 favorites]


Tomorrow I'm going to call my two (very liberal) senators and ask them to submit a bill banning the Trump Administration from sharing any classified information about hacking with Russia. I urge everyone else to as well.

Amy Klobuchar has introduced something called the HACK act "to strengthen cybersecurity and improve our election infrastructure."

Not quite the same thing, but still something worth supporting.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:43 PM on July 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Jonathan Chait, NY Magazine: Donald Trump Jr.’s ‘Denials’ of Russian Collusion Are Actually Confessions
Trump Jr.’s latest defense is that while he sought damaging information from Veselnitskaya, she failed to deliver any. However, the timing of events around this meeting is instructive. The hacker Guccifer announced the theft of Clinton emails the month before, and Guccifer’s only publicly known connection to Russia was his use of Russian proxy servers. But three days after the meeting with the Trump campaign, Julian Assange, Putin’s pass-through publishing source for email hacks, announced, “We have upcoming leaks in relation to Hillary Clinton … We have emails pending publication, that is correct.”
WikiLeaks would later published the hacked DNC e-mails on July 22nd, a week and a half after Team Trump watered down the issue of Russian intervention in Ukraine in the RNC party platform. Five days afterward, Trump would publicly entreat the hackers, "I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing." And here we are today.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:45 PM on July 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


Vadim Birstein, a Russian-American who arrived in the United States in 1991 and is a historian and molecular geneticist, has a fascinating blog post on the The Azeri-Agaralov-Trump Connection. Lots of connections as you would expect with some very murky figures in the Russian oligarchy, especially around the Miss Universe staging in Moscow.
Agalarov Jr told the press about the 2013 event, at which he performed as a singer (translation by V. B.):

The contest “Miss Universe” […] we conducted jointly with Donald in the “Crocus City Hall.” And then there was a big celebration after the final. […] Donald was with us until the morning, until the departure, and from there went straight to the airport. He really liked it, was very warm with all he talked to, a bunch of artists performed, and it was interesting and we had fun. In general, communication with him was very positive. […] Donald Trump is very positive, warm, warm person, and I think he will be very unusual and tough President.

Trump was very enthusiastic about the contest and boasted: “Almost all of the [Russian] oligarchs were in the room.” There was also present one of the closest Putin’s co-workers and assistants Vladimir Kozhin (who the following year was sanctioned in the U.S. in response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine).
I am sure all those Russian oligarchs are completely harmless and throughly decent, honourable individuals who would not seek to take advantage of a chump like Trump.
posted by vac2003 at 5:50 PM on July 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


Everybody else wants to watch Trump's cameo in Emin Agalarov's pop music video from 2013 again, right?

Here you go
. Courtesy of People Magazine.
posted by OnceUponATime at 5:51 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


"Are you f---ing kidding me? Your first veto of the administration is to protect Russia?"

No doubt this concerns one or more presidential advisors. I see zero evidence that that this would concern the President.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:52 PM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


No, but having his veto overriden would definitely concern him. Humiliation and the fear of it is what drives all of his actions.
posted by Justinian at 5:55 PM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: The fact that President Putin and I discussed a Cyber Security unit doesn't mean I think it can happen. It can't-but a ceasefire can,& did!

The President is stoned, everyone commit federal crimes!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:56 PM on July 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


I think I've reached peak WTF with that tweet. I think I have broken inside.
posted by Justinian at 5:59 PM on July 9, 2017 [26 favorites]


or veto the bill and risk a two-thirds majority in Congress overriding his wishes.

Ooooooh god I desperately want this situation SO. BAD.

Like the only political development I want more is a full removal of the Trump regime. And I feel like this would be a great step in that direction anyway.

If this gets to the front burner of US politics, a lot of Trumpists will be against it, sure. We'll also no doubt have a huge swell of people on the "left" shouting that it's belligerent, that it's damaging, that it pushes us back toward the Cold War and blah blah blah. And it'll be all the same people on the "left" who did all they could to undermine Hillary during the general. It'll be all the same dubiously left voices from the election. They'll say it's inherently bad to want worse relations with Russia.

And there's only one thing to tell them: relations are already that bad, motherfucker. It's time to be honest about it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:00 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


scaryblackdeath, I think you're forgetting that the TRUE enemy here are the neoliberals.
posted by Justinian at 6:01 PM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think I've reached peak WTF with that tweet. I think I have broken inside.

My broken inside has broken inside.
posted by notyou at 6:02 PM on July 9, 2017 [29 favorites]


Anyway, broken mes nesting like Russian dolls that I may be, I'm still curious about the terms of the ceasefire he's just announced.
posted by notyou at 6:07 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Maybe the Trumps love rocks - Goldstone, Roger Stone, Bayrock, Bayrock Whitestone...

Yabba dabba doo!
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:10 PM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


OHHhh. The ceasefire bit is not a Cyber ceasefire. It's the Syria ceasefire.
posted by notyou at 6:14 PM on July 9, 2017


He's smart and he wants respect.

L. Markay and A. Suebsaeng, Daily Beast: Trump Aides: Russia Flap Proves Don Jr. Is The ‘Fredo’ of The First Family
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:19 PM on July 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


And not a word about the Iraqi army retaking Mosul. I thoroughly expected him to take full credit for it... which he probably still will when he hears about it in a week or two...
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:19 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


The hacker Guccifer announced the theft of Clinton emails the month before

Jonathan Chait is conflating the two Guccifer's there. This statement to Fox News was made on April 9th by the Romanian hacker Marcel Lehel Laza ("Guccifer", arrested in 2014, extradited to the US in March 2016). While many have claimed to have breached Clinton's private server, I don't think any emails from that have ever been published publicly, so there is no evidence for it.

Guccifer 2.0, which is thought to be a proxy "hacker" for Russian intelligence, announced the DNC breach on June 14th, 5 days after Don Jr's meeting with Veselnitskaya.

(Interesting side note: The day of the meeting with Veselnitskaya, June 9th, was the day CrowdStrike shut down the DNC IT infrastructure, after monitoring the hackers for more than a month).
posted by pjenks at 6:21 PM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why are there 2 - 4 spaces after "Cyber Security unit " in his tweets? He copying and pasting this from somewhere?
posted by Room 101 at 6:22 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Here's current Republican teen idol Ben Sasse (R-NE), two minutes ago, on DJT's cybersecurity tweets: "This obviously should not happen--& obviously will not happen. Why the President of the United States would tweet it is inexplicably bizarre"

Ah yes, Ben Sasse, the champion of "I cannot continue to support anything about Trump but his agenda." All talk and no Medicaid.

/nebraskan
posted by that's how you get ants at 6:24 PM on July 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


Everybody else wants to watch Trump's cameo in Emin Agalarov's pop music video from 2013 again, right?

I prefer Bobby Brown's On Our Own for my Trump cameos.
posted by Talez at 6:24 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


We knew Senator Capito was against the bill, but here's how vehemently she's against it. I feel like this is a faintly hopeful sign.
posted by orangutan at 6:26 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Why are there 2 - 4 spaces after "Cyber Security unit " in his tweets? He copying and pasting this from somewhere?

I'm gonna go with "because he's a stupid moron with an ugly face and a big butt and his butt smells and he likes to kiss his own butt," and expect no deeper explanation is needed.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 6:44 PM on July 9, 2017 [22 favorites]


Morbo: Morbo demands an answer to the following question. If you saw delicious candy in the hands of a small child, would you seize and consume it?
Jack Johnson: Unthinkable.
John Jackson: I wouldn't think of it.
Morbo: What about you, Mr. Nixon? I remind you, you are under a truthoscope.
Nixon: Uh, well ah, the question is, uh, is vague. You don't say what kind of candy, whether anyone is watching, or uh... (AHEM) At any rate, I wouldn't certainly wouldn't harm the child.
(truthoscope goes off noisily)
posted by ArgentCorvid at 6:46 PM on July 9, 2017 [22 favorites]


I think these two tweets deserve to be preserved next to each other like immortal twinkies:
Jul 9, 2017 06:50:24 AM Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded..

Jul 9, 2017 07:45:13 PM The fact that President Putin and I discussed a Cyber Security unit doesn't mean I think it can happen. It can't-but a ceasefire can,& did!

posted by pjenks at 6:52 PM on July 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


Meanwhile I expect this story about how some of Comey's memos contain classified info is all they are taking about on right wing media.

Apparently it may have been retroactively classified, so color me un-scandalized.

But it is pretty darn ironic that he has now been "reckless" with material he "should have known" might be classified in exactly the same way as Hillary Clinton was, per his famous speech.

When they make a movie about all this, I want Comey to be the viewpoint character, because what a layered character he is.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:56 PM on July 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


I can't believe those were both today
posted by theodolite at 6:58 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


looks like i picked the wrong year to quit sniffing glue
posted by entropicamericana at 6:59 PM on July 9, 2017 [36 favorites]


looks like Trump picked the wrong year to change the brand of glue he sniffs.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:02 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Probably worked out that he couldn't base the new Cyber Unit at one of his hotels - so it was a nonstarter (Hotel wifi wasn't good enough apparently), and Melania reminded him that Baron needs to be at school most days....so there goes the Unit's thought leadership as well. I guess we'll just have to keep trying to secure "the cyber" ourselves
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:09 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


NY Magazine has an excerpt from Joshua Green's upcoming book: Attack, Attack, Attack—Why does Trump double-down every time it seems like he should retreat? Because Steve Bannon is back in his boss’s good graces. There's a lot in here, but I'll just highlight this bit:
Although Trump didn’t dwell on policy details, Bannon pitched in there, too. When Trump came under fire because his campaign hadn’t produced a single policy paper, Bannon arranged for Nunberg and Ann Coulter, the conservative pundit, to quickly write a white paper on Trump’s immigration policies. When the campaign released it, Coulter, without disclosing her role, tweeted that it was “the greatest political document since the Magna Carta.”
posted by zachlipton at 7:15 PM on July 9, 2017 [29 favorites]


So Trump reneges on his Cyber Security Unit 13 hours after announcing it, but that was enough time for Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin to try to put a positive spin on it:

Trump’s Cabinet heads still tried to sell the working group concept on Sunday. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnunchin called it “a very important step forward” during an appearance on ABC’s “This Week,” adding that the engagement “is about having capabilities to make sure that we both fight cyber together.”
posted by dhens at 7:16 PM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


an internet superhighway patrol
posted by entropicamericana at 7:20 PM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Truth Behind Donald Trump, Jr.,’s Meeting with a Russian Lawyer (David Remnick / The New Yorker)
So, yes, it is wrong to get ahead of the reporting. But the myriad implications of a hacked Presidential election, while too much to bear for the President—his ego seems to implode at any suggestion that his victory was possibly more complicated than the unambiguous “landslide” he imagines it to be—demands the answers that journalists, law enforcement, and Congress are pursuing. Part of that process is admitting error, as CNN did, quickly and responsibly recently after an errant story. Part of that process is having the patience to see what the truth, as it emerges over time, turns out to be. For now, we live in a moment when the President of the United States is, without shame, trying to intimidate the people whose business it is to come to an honest reckoning. He tries to intimidate the press. He has fired an F.B.I. director and considered going further. It’s reasonable to wonder why. Without assuming too much, too soon.
I read that last line wryly.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:21 PM on July 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


They just put out a super bare White House schedule for tomorrow. No events on the public schedule, briefing plans TBA, nothing. Usually they at least mention an intelligence briefing, a lunch meeting, something, if only to give the appearance of activity.
posted by zachlipton at 7:27 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


threeturtles: "There's a remarkable piece in the New Yorker called America's Future is Texas."

FYI, there's an active thread about it.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:27 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


NY Magazine has an excerpt from Joshua Green's upcoming book: Attack, Attack, Attack—Why does Trump double-down every time it seems like he should retreat?

It sounds like he's playing by Roger Stone’s Rules: “Attack, attack, attack—never defend” and “Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack.” Watch how Team Trump goes into action tomorrow.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:29 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


So as crazy pants as today has been, if there is anything I've learned in the last few months, it's that we will have all moved onto a totally new set of crazy pants by tomorrow. Most of us won't even remember the cyber unit thing by this time next week. The turd that smells twice the strongest, decomposes twice as fast. Or something
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:29 PM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


Here are my attempts at Putin palindromes:

Putin evil? I liven it up.

A hard nut, Putin rubs some moss. "Burn it up! Tundra, ha!"
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 7:34 PM on July 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


an internet superhighway patrol

MicroCHiPs?

sorry not sorry
posted by jason_steakums at 7:34 PM on July 9, 2017 [51 favorites]


an internet superhighway patrol
which one of them is Ponch?
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:36 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Both of the times he tweeted about Cyber Security unit he added extra white space after that phrase and thinking about it is making me feel like a crazy person
posted by theodolite at 7:36 PM on July 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Rust Moranis: "L. Markay and A. Suebsaeng, Daily Beast: Trump Aides: Russia Flap Proves Don Jr. Is The ‘Fredo’ of The First Family"

I keep seeing this, but Fredo *knew* he wasn't as smart as the rest of the family. I see no indications Don Jr. doesn't follow his dad's pattern of believing he is a genius, contrary to all evidence.

You kind of felt bad for Fredo (I mean, except for the Mafia part). Nobody feels bad for Don Jr.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:39 PM on July 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


So, um, apparently Rob Goldstone, the "acquaintance" who brokered the meeting, posted a picture of himself on Instagram the day after the election wearing a "Russia" t-shirt. Which somehow still seems subtle for what we're living through now.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, let's check in on our Secretary of State. AP:Tillerson gets oil industry award, says he misses colleagues
U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson took a brief break from his diplomatic duties on Sunday, returning to his Exxon Mobil comfort zone to bask in the glow of approval from his former colleagues in the oil sector.

Accepting a lifetime achievement award from the World Petroleum Congress, the former Exxon CEO reminisced about his more than 41 years as an oilman, calling the energy industry “marvelous” and the people in it some of the most talented in any business. He also took time to meet with Turkey’s president and foreign minister.

“I miss all of you,” he said wistfully to his former colleagues in the oil business. “I miss you as colleagues, I miss you as partners, I miss you as competitors.”
thisisfine.gif
posted by zachlipton at 7:40 PM on July 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


World Petroleum Congress

Wasn't Buckaroo Banzai supposed to fight them in the sequel?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:43 PM on July 9, 2017 [33 favorites]


an internet superhighway patrol
which one of them is Ponch?
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:36 PM on 7/9


Surely you meant Paunch, and we know which one that is.
posted by emelenjr at 7:47 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


In BCRA news:
-- Noted above, Capito has *really* come out against the bill.
-- McCain says bill is probably dead, needs to start over as bipartisan process.
-- The mood in the GOP caucus is getting bleak.
Keep calling your Senators, but....
posted by Chrysostom at 7:51 PM on July 9, 2017 [35 favorites]


... keep calling your Senators.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:52 PM on July 9, 2017 [72 favorites]


Did Trump just murder the unborn Impenetrable Cyber Security Unit?
posted by srboisvert at 7:55 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe the Trumps love rocks - Goldstone, Roger Stone, Bayrock, Bayrock Whitestone...

It's a Flintstone's thing.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:03 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Earlier, I was thinking at the "three advisers to the White House" who talked to the Times were trying to throw Jared under the bus to get ahead of the story. I'm kind of coming around to the theory, put forth by Christina Wilkie, that this sounds more like an operation to throw Don Jr. under the bus to protect Jared.

Kushner is in a world of hurt, because he didn't disclose this meeting on his security clearance paperwork until the other day. That's coming out soon enough, because he finally did disclose it, so why not try to make this a "Don Jr. is an idiot story" rather than a "Kushner colluded with the Russians" story?

I'm not sure it makes a damn bit of difference, but it seems that folks in the administration are trying to use this to advance their positions, and the question of who handed this to the Times and why is a really interesting one.
posted by zachlipton at 8:06 PM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


The mood in the GOP caucus is getting bleak

We're two months from shutdown/debt ceiling season.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:06 PM on July 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Although I appreciate zachlipton's contribution of the Bannon article, I would have personally chosen to highlight this piece:

Bannon became a vital figure in Trump’s orbit during the early days of his political rise. The two met late in 2010, when David Bossie, the veteran conservative activist, brought Bannon along on a trip to Trump Tower to offer advice about how Trump might prepare for a presidential run. Like Trump, Bannon was a businessman and born deal-maker. With experience on Wall Street and in Hollywood, he was nothing if not high energy, a mile-a-minute talker with a volcanic temper who rarely slept and possessed a media metabolism to rival Trump’s own. And Bannon, too, had a healthy self-regard. On his office wall hung an oil painting of Bannon dressed as Napoleon in his study at the Tuileries, done in the style of Jacques-Louis David’s famous neoclassical painting — a gift from Nigel Farage.

Could someone please tell the writers of 2017 to stop making all the world-destroying villains into such James Bond-level caricatures?
posted by prosopagnosia at 8:07 PM on July 9, 2017 [71 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

Kobach commission:
--Word on the street is that we're likely to shortly see a temporary restraining order in the EPIC privacy lawsuit over voter data collection by the commission.
-- Kobach was very oddly missing from the annual Secretaries of State meeting this weekend.
Odds & ends:
-- Bloomberg: Indivisible branching out from pressure tactics into actually trying to get people elected.
-- ACLU lawsuit against Massachusetts's requirement to register at least 20 days in advance of an election went to trial. There's also a separate effort in the legislature to go to automatic registration.
-- Great NYT op-ed on the real fix for polarization in Congress is a) ranked choice voting and b) multi-member constituencies. There's a bill before Congress now to make this happen, so it's at least starting to get attention.
-- Checking in on the generic Congressional ballot, Dems are currently up 6.5 points.
-- Q poll shows falling numbers for every positive personal quality of Trump's since November. Biggest nosedive? "Intelligent", off 34%.
-- McClatchy looks at some below the radar successes Dems have had in local races. Regular readers of this column should recognize them (Philly DA; Jackson, MS mayor; Cincinnati mayor).
-- More people think Trump should be impeached than think he's doing a good job.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:11 PM on July 9, 2017 [47 favorites]


And a scandal palindrome waiting to be uncovered:

Putin rutted a cadet. Turn it up!
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:18 PM on July 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


So what, his son met with a Russian to collude, bfd. It's not like Trump uses his children as proxies for extremely important meetings... oh.
posted by gatorae at 8:20 PM on July 9, 2017 [48 favorites]


I'm kind of coming around to the theory, put forth by Christina Wilkie, that this sounds more like an operation to throw Don Jr. under the bus to protect Jared.

In addition toKushner, Manafort is doubtless also desperate for a fall guy. Please note that while Donald Jr. keeps opening his big stupid mouth about this meeting, the other two attendees from Team Trump are not talking to the press. They both know they're in deep shit - Kushner lying on his SF-86 about foreign contacts pretty much means it's game over for him - but they were at least smart enough to stop digging. No doubt they're now looking for a way out, and if they can't make Don Jr. their scapegoat, their only remaining feasible option will be turning fink for the Feebs—like Trump's former favorite Felix Sater seems to have done.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:41 PM on July 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


You mean the Miss Universe contest in Russia, that Donald Trump Sr. attended?

Isn't this where the piss tape was supposed to have happened?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:49 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: As punishment for his very bad meeting, tomorrow I will devour my firstborn son, Don Jr, on @foxandfriends!
posted by theodolite at 8:54 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Don't forget your [FAKE] tags where appropriate.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:56 PM on July 9, 2017 [25 favorites]


Great NYT op-ed on the real fix for polarization in Congress is a) ranked choice voting and b) multi-member constituencies. There's a bill before Congress now to make this happen, so it's at least starting to get attention.

I'm skeptical about changing voting systems. Even in the cited example of Maine, the judiciary is trying to figure out how widely IRV (pet peeve- I refuse to conflate IRV with the much broader idea of ranked choice voting) can be applied given constitutional concerns. (Aside- my personal preference would be one house elected proportionally (which can be approximated with multi-member districts) to capture the diversity of the electorate and one house elected with approval voting (without holding government-funded primaries!) to emphasize candidates with broader appeal across the spectrum).

But I have a different idea to change polarization. It will take a long time but I think it's got a shot. We've got to make suburbs interesting places for liberals to live, so their corresponding districts are competitive. Maybe that means trying to establish or empower county/regional transit authorities to more effectively link suburbs to cities' transit systems. Surely you'd need more than that. But we can't mostly stay stuffed in cities and expect the districts to work themselves out.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 9:02 PM on July 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


FYI, there's an active thread about it.

Thanks Chrysostom. Then I was sharing for the other people like me who rarely get out of the political threads these days. I didn't know how long it had been out.
posted by threeturtles at 9:06 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


There's no need for elaborate voting system changes if we had fairly drawn nonpartisan districts and universal registration. Remove all the Republican cheating and our democracy would be unrecognizable from the farce we live with today
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:09 PM on July 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's healthy to get out of the political threads. You're missing out on some great posts about doggos, music nerdom, roller coaster reconstruction and troll penises. Basically if you can't get outside to enjoy real world, Metafilter has all your mental health needs covered.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:15 PM on July 9, 2017 [18 favorites]


Edit: specifically good doggos. They're all good doggos.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:18 PM on July 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


You Can't Tip a Buick: I really miss the days, way back two years ago, when my argument for sortition as the superior means to select office-holders was tongue-in-cheek gadfly/troll behavior.

Jpfed: (Aside- my personal preference would be one house elected proportionally (which can be approximated with multi-member districts) to capture the diversity of the electorate and one house elected with approval voting (without holding government-funded primaries!) to emphasize candidates with broader appeal across the spectrum).

So, are we ready for a Constitutional Convention to overhaul our government, then? I propose we combine these two ideas, and have a bicameral legislature with one house composed by sortition, and the other by approval voting. Also promote consensus-building mechanisms like the filibuster to the level of Constitutional law rather than rules and tradition. And enhance the power of judicial review to protect minority rights against mob rule.
posted by biogeo at 9:18 PM on July 9, 2017


Sure, let's have a constitutional convention. We probably won't end up banning abortion and gay marriage explicitly right?
posted by dilaudid at 9:20 PM on July 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


I know it's helped us a bit lately, but the history of the filibuster is definitely one used as an anti-progressive tool.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:21 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Romney's chief strategist in 2012 campaign:

@stuartpstevens:
When Gore campaign was sent Bush debate brief book, they called FBI. If foreign interests offer you info on former SOS, you call the FBI.
posted by chris24 at 9:21 PM on July 9, 2017 [115 favorites]


There's no need for elaborate voting system changes if we had fairly drawn nonpartisan districts and universal registration. Remove all the Republican cheating and our democracy would be unrecognizable from the farce we live with today

I think the arrow of causality goes the other way. The word "gerrymander" was coined in 1812; this kind of gaming has been part of our government for our entire history, because it is a tactical exploitation of the flaws in our voting rules and districting system. Fix the voting system and gerrymandering and other types of ratfucking will be rendered moot. Of course there will be new ratfucking, which is why our system of government needs to be able to evolve, to respond to the evolutionary arms race against political operatives.
posted by biogeo at 9:24 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Sure, let's have a constitutional convention. We probably won't end up banning abortion and gay marriage explicitly right?

Not if the three million more people who voted in support of those ideas are fairly represented.

So yeah, I guess it's probably a pipe dream.
posted by biogeo at 9:26 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


How likely do you guys think it is that before this is all over, every member of the Trump family will have accidentally confessed to a crime in the national media
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:28 PM on July 9, 2017 [23 favorites]


Kushner is in a world of hurt, because he didn't disclose this meeting on his security clearance paperwork until the other day.

Why does he still have a security clearance? Why hasn't it at least be suspended until they can figure out what the hell is going on?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:32 PM on July 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


In 1812 they didn't have computer assisted maps targeted to the individual voter level.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:40 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


In 1812 they didn't have computer assisted maps targeted to the individual voter level.

That's exactly my point. The sophisticated techniques that modern Republicans (and Democrats, though they are clearly less effective at it) use to gerrymander are just a recent innovation in a broader technique which is an almost inevitable consequence of first-past-the-post voting combined with geographic district representation. Trying to stop such a system from being gamed by partisan operatives is a more or less impossible task, especially with modern sophisticated GIS-based districting algorithms. Considering the amount of power that is at stake, I am skeptical of the ability to create truly nonpartisan districts. The only way to stop it is to eliminate first-past-the-post voting, or eliminate arbitrarily-drawn representation districts, or both. In my opinion, both is preferable.
posted by biogeo at 9:58 PM on July 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


which one of them is Ponch?

He's not feeling well. He stayed back at the hotel.
posted by The Tensor at 9:59 PM on July 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Kushner is in a world of hurt, because he didn't disclose this meeting on his security clearance paperwork until the other day."

Why does he still have a security clearance? Why hasn't it at least be suspended until they can figure out what the hell is going on?


By my count, this is the third thing he "forgot" to put on his clearance application. I guess he gets infinite do-overs.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:00 PM on July 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


Maybe he should just write ALL HAIL MOTHER RUSSIA on the security clearance paper now, and then he'll be covered for any future goings-on.
posted by mmoncur at 10:12 PM on July 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


The implicit point of the NYT article is that discussions of voting systems in the US almost always immediately dissolve into mockery about constitutional conventions, abolishing the electoral college or Senate, switching to a purely parliamentary system, and all the other unicorns democracy wonks ask for but will never, ever happen ha ha. But most people don't realize that most of the changes discussed in the NYT piece and elsewhere require nothing but a national bill and some local state bills, and in fact the US system is not nearly as calcified as our brief lives in this era of gridlock would suggest: in fact, as the article points out, some of the systems that are often mocked as being constitutionally impossible existed even as recently as the middle of the last century. It is a mistake to conflate multi-member districts and instant-runoff systems with constitutional conventions, adding branches to the government, and other impossible unicorns -- indeed, such a segue is a common conservative move to make important but feasible changes look ludicrous and impossible. Like vitiating the electoral college via proportional assignment of electors, the main things standing in the way are Republicans, the fear of any state of going first, and a couple swing Justices whose political biases might lead them to fabricate constitutional rationales to rule against it. Which is to say, just the usual barriers to liberal progress -- not something logical, constitutional, or historically unprecedented. Like single payer, this is fundamentally just a set of laws that need to get passed against conservative opposition -- difficult, but surprisingly possible.
posted by chortly at 10:19 PM on July 9, 2017 [44 favorites]


I keep seeing this, but Fredo *knew* he wasn't as smart as the rest of the family.

"I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!"
posted by kirkaracha at 10:29 PM on July 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


How likely do you guys think it is that before this is all over, every member of the Trump family will have accidentally confessed to a crime in the national media

Who's left, Melania, Ivanka and Eric? Tiff and Barron would seem to get byes for this round.
posted by rhizome at 11:16 PM on July 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


> So, are we ready for a Constitutional Convention to overhaul our government, then? I propose we combine these two ideas, and have a bicameral legislature with one house composed by sortition, and the other by approval voting. Also promote consensus-building mechanisms like the filibuster to the level of Constitutional law rather than rules and tradition. And enhance the power of judicial review to protect minority rights against mob rule.

I dunno comrade that sounds like a lot of milquetoast Menshevik reformism to me.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:37 PM on July 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Al-Jazeera's Inside Story: "Does the world still need US for leadership?" (approx 25m)

(also, al-jazeera is not giving a fuck anymore it feels like. last week was 'are the saudis funding extremism?')
posted by cendawanita at 12:53 AM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


al-jazeera is not giving a fuck anymore it feels like. last week was 'are the saudis funding extremism?'

Really? I've been watching al jazeera for six or more years and detect no change.
posted by Mister Bijou at 2:47 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


There's no need for elaborate voting system changes if we had fairly drawn nonpartisan districts 

Strongly disagree. People self-gerrymander... That is, you don't have to draw funny shaped lines to concentrate most Democrats in a region into a single district with a single representative. Democrats concentrate themselves in cities. (Though funny shaped lines can make it worse.)

That is going to systematically under represent Democrats no matter how to draw the lines geographically, especially given that states with small populations (ie few cities or small cities) get more than their proportional share of representatives in the House.

What's more, that systematic under-representation is getting worse wth time as cities grow, and rural areas empty out.

Then there are all of the problems inherent in the two party system...Which arises from first past the post voting and party-blind representation.

There is a real demand now for a party further left than the Democrats. But thanks to our voting system, if the left side of the political spectrum splits into two parties, that will guarantee conservative pluralities in many districts. The left side of the spectrum, while constituting the majority of voters, will end up wining almost no elections if every district goes something like "30% for the socialist, 30% for the centrist Democrat, and 40% Republican."

(Out of curiosity, does anyone have any data on vote totals from the recent UK election? If you add up total votes cast for Labour and Lib Dem candidates, do they outnumber total votes cast for Conservatives?)

With ranked choice you could vote for a third party candidate in good conscience. And with proportional representation by party (which is possible only with multi-member districts) some third party candidates might actually get elected!

Ranked choice voting and multi-member districts do not require a constitiinal ammendment, because the constitution mostly leaves elections up to the states anyway. There is a 19th century federal law requiring single member districts which would have to be overturned, and then states would have to make these changes individually.

This excellent Vox piece has more details.

Rep Don Beyer also wrote an op-ed for WaPo
explaining the law he introduced to allow this (repealing that "single member districts law.)

I have been telling everyone who thinks the Democratic party is too far right and too beholden to neo-liberals that THIS is the regime they need to be pushing for. This is the only way to campaign for people outside the Democratic party that doesn't just end up putting Republicans in office. THIS would shake up the establishment.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:02 AM on July 10, 2017 [24 favorites]


Gah "reform" not regime.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:08 AM on July 10, 2017


Also it would help at the presidential level to make the Electoral College irrelevant by getting a sufficient number of states to sign on to the National Popular Vote Compact.

So lobby for that at the state level, if you can. Again, no constitutional convention required, so the Koch brothers would have no opportunity to rewrite the Constituion the way they want it.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:24 AM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


That is going to systematically under represent Democrats no matter how to draw the lines geographically

Isn't this only true if you want the districts to be fairly similar sizes geographically rather than by population? It doesn't matter if Democrats cluster into cities if you have the city broken into 10 districts and everything outside the city broken into, say, 2 districts.
posted by Justinian at 3:28 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


I do agree that the failure to expand the size of the House with population growth and clustering will tend to favor Republicans, though, given overrepresentation of rural states. But that's a different argument than the idea that you cant fairly represent a given state which has Democrats clustered in cities and Republicans outside them.
posted by Justinian at 3:31 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


That is going to systematically under represent Democrats no matter how to draw the lines geographically

Isn't this only true if you want the districts to be fairly similar sizes geographically rather than by population?


Unless you can redraw the lines every election cycle, the tendency of people to move into cities and out of rural areas will unbalance the districts. It won't be as bad as it is under the current intentional-gerrymander regime, but it will be noticeable by the years ending in zero.
posted by Etrigan at 3:41 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


It doesn't matter if Democrats cluster into cities if you have the city broken into 10 districts and everything outside the city broken into, say, 2 districts.

I think it still matters. If those 10 city districts tend to vote 90% for Democratic candidates, for instance, and the 2 rural districts tend to vote 60% for Republican candidates (this is exaggerated to make the point...)

Then it seems like about 85% of the votes in this hypothetical scenario were cast for Democrats. But only 10 out of 12 (or 83%) of the representatives were Democratic.

Okay, you say, that is barely different and we aren't going to get the proportions exactly right unless we have really huge numbers of representatives.

But when you scale that effect up across the nation it adds up to a significant number of seats. And I think right now it's a systematic effect in favor of Republicans (Though I don't have the numbers on hand to back that up.)

I think even without intentional gerrymandering there are going to be more 90% D districts than 90% R districts, because I think there are fewer Republicans in the densest parts of cities than there are Democrats in rural areas.

That's a testable hypothesis, and if the data proves me wrong, I'm wrong.

But it certainly seems true to me!
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:50 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


That's not true, Justinian. The problem of clustering is instead about percentages.

When you gerrymander, the goal is to get your party to win districts solidly but not overwhelmingly, say 60-40. To achieve this in as many districts as possible, you should simultaneously make sure the opposing party wins their districts overwhelmingly, say 80-20.

When people talk about Democrats clustering in cities, this is what they mean-- many urban areas are not just Democratic, they are overwhelmingly so. At the same time, suburban and rural districts tend to be less strongly Republican. So in many states, even drawing compact districts set by population size won't help; Dems could be underrepresented simple because where they are the majority they are a supermajority, and when they are a minority it is just barely.
posted by nat at 3:51 AM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump tweets Comey leaked classified info: 'That is so illegal' (Politico)

Here we go again.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 4:15 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Serious question for those who've been outside the bubble:

How has generally Fox been covering Trump's tweets? Do Fox and Friends shake their heads and chortle, like oh that crazy kid, or they act like there's some profound wisdom there?

Just shaking my head and have serious questions about whether or not he's stroked out. He hasn't on the myriad times I'd thought he was imploding, so I assume no.
posted by angrycat at 4:53 AM on July 10, 2017


Dampnut is just straight up retweeting Fox and Friends this morning. Including retweeting a video with the chyron repeating his comment on a retweet of another F&F video only minutes before.

Too surreal for a Monday morning.
posted by jammer at 5:13 AM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


Jul 9, 2017 06:50:24 AM Putin & I discussed forming an impenetrable Cyber Security unit so that election hacking, & many other negative things, will be guarded..

It is irrelevant but I cannot read this in any way except a tacit complaint that election hacking was detected so he wants it to be secured and undetectable next time.
posted by winna at 5:15 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump tweets Comey leaked classified info: 'That is so illegal'

I'm seriously wondering at what point this horseshit becomes legally actionable. Surely not even the President can simply brazenly accuse someone of committing a crime without running afoul of libel laws?
posted by darkstar at 5:26 AM on July 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


How has generally Fox been covering Trump's tweets?

Fox&Friends: "Give the guy a break. He's the defender of Western Civilisation. Bigger than Winston Churchill. And his daughter is the Smartest Woman in America."
posted by Mister Bijou at 5:26 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


@jonathanvswan
Source close to White House texts me this AM; "Pepe Nation on high alert. Today's mission: Operation We Got Don Jr.'s Back." 🐸🐸🐸

@Susan_Hennessey Retweeted Jonathan Swan
"Source close to the White House" is apparently someone who speaks for "Pepe nation." Revolting.

---

Interesting that in 9 tweets this morning, one person who doesn't have Jr's back is Trump. Not one tweet defending him despite several defending Ivanka.
posted by chris24 at 5:27 AM on July 10, 2017 [47 favorites]


Chelsea ftw.

@realDonaldTrump
If Chelsea Clinton were asked to hold the seat for her mother,as her mother gave our country away, the Fake News would say CHELSEA FOR PRES!


@ChelseaClinton Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Good morning Mr. President. It would never have occurred to my mother or my father to ask me. Were you giving our country away? Hoping not.
posted by chris24 at 5:36 AM on July 10, 2017 [142 favorites]


"Pepe Nation on high alert. Today's mission: Operation We Got Don Jr.'s Back."

Don Jr is the rich jock that made all those white nerds on lives miserable but good job on sticking up for his hurt fee-fees so Daddy doesn't ground him again
posted by PenDevil at 5:38 AM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Unkellyanney valley: Alternative Face v 1.1 (Françoise Hardy)(via The Economist).
posted by progosk at 5:48 AM on July 10, 2017


Dampnut is just straight up retweeting Fox and Friends this morning. Including retweeting a video with the chyron repeating his comment on a retweet of another F&F video only minutes before.

Trumpception.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHMMM
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:54 AM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Dumb as bricks, admitting again like he did in the Times that he went to meet with a Kremlin-linked Russian lawyer to get oppo about Clinton.

@DonaldJTrumpJr
Obviously I'm the first person on a campaign to ever take a meeting to hear info about an opponent... went nowhere but had to listen.
posted by chris24 at 6:10 AM on July 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


Why, it's almost as if "outsiders" with no previous experience with our political system, laws, norms, history, or foreign relations aren't actually the more qualified, more virtuous, more trustworthy individuals!

I know, I'm just as shocked as you all.

(I'm 10000% willing to believe that Don Jr and Jared legit don't think there's anything wrong with accepting oppo from foreign adversaries. Manafort, on the other hand, knew exactly what he was doing, and did it anyway. Which kind of leads me to believe that the person who might be flipping here is Manafort, not those other two bumbling idiots.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:18 AM on July 10, 2017 [50 favorites]


The "opponent" was the former Secretary of State of the United States of America.

This is the thing that definitely shows that they care so much more about power than serving country. Their focus is on the "opponent" part, rather than the fact that a foreign power was offering clandestine information about the Secretary of State.
posted by Sublimity at 6:21 AM on July 10, 2017 [40 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump I eat pieces of shit like u for breakfast!

@happygilmore69lol u eat pieces of shit for breakfast?


[Fake, but real in spirit]
posted by dirigibleman at 6:24 AM on July 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm 10000% willing to believe that Don Jr and Jared legit don't think there's anything wrong with accepting oppo from foreign adversaries.

Indeed. To them it's just doing what the father has always done: when you run out of banks in the US who will lend you money since you keep refusing to pay them back, just keep on looking for suckers who will lend you money.
posted by Melismata at 6:41 AM on July 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump I eat pieces of shit like u for breakfast!

@happygilmore69lol u eat pieces of shit for breakfast?

[Fake, but real in spirit]


Trump would have to double down

By the end of the day dozens of GOP politicians and pundits would be hailing the health benefits of eating shit
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:48 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


to be fair, mccain would express concern before bellying up to the table for a double helping
posted by entropicamericana at 6:50 AM on July 10, 2017 [26 favorites]


I'm pretty sure that at no point did any of these numbnuts independently have a single thought about the implications of any of this. Oh, Russia has dirt on the former SoS? Cool, bruh! *backslaps, high fives* And they have strong enough opinions on Daddy being the President that they'll just hand it over? Sweet! Oh wah they actually just wanted to talk about a law they don't like. Oh well. I'm sure that was in no way a fishing trip to see how enthusiastic we are about this sort of thing.

They are not deep thinkers. (Seriously, though, Manafort, while evil, is not super delux dumb. He knows how these things work and that it's kind of not the done thing to sign up foreign spy agencies to do your oppo research for you and that maybe you shouldn't, like, tweet about it. Do we know where that guy is these days? Witsec?)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:51 AM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


be hailing the health benefits of eating shit

They call it "meatloaf."
posted by spitbull at 7:00 AM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: James Comey leaked CLASSIFIED INFORMATION to the media. That is so illegal!

We have no evidence that the contents of Comey's memos were classified at the time he shared them. Let us assume they were retroactively classified. Classification powers rest with the President. If sharing material that later becomes classified is a crime, it means that the President can render any of his political enemies guilty of a crime, simply by identifying some material they discussed, and retroactively classifying it. That would be... not... good?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:01 AM on July 10, 2017 [52 favorites]


I am very much afraid the GOP will do nothing.

They will do nothing, that's the only thing we can be sure of now. They are all 100% on board with the sell out in exchange for tax cuts. They have been from the beginning.


Of course. Which is why part of the message has to be -- though I am stymied in imagining how we can get it to voters thru the "balanced," "both-sides-do-it," so-called "liberal" media, is that Republican politicians everywhere are complicit in Trump's treason, incompetence, and corruption. They are selling us all out, even their own constituents. We have to teach reporters not to be impressed when John McCain or Susan Collins expresses "concern" when they vote for the Republican agenda and not for impeachment, or at least investigations that will lead to impeachment.

The revelations -- no, the admission -- that the Trump campaign met with Russians who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton is not only treasonous in itself, but also another element of evidence supporting the case that Trump is corrupt. Somehow, Republicans must be held responsible for their enabling of Trump's corruption, so they are deterred from doing so in the future.

I just wish I knew how.
posted by Gelatin at 7:02 AM on July 10, 2017 [24 favorites]


I just wish I knew how.

i have some ideas
posted by entropicamericana at 7:07 AM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


be hailing the health benefits of eating shit

Not to derail or anything, but this is actually A Thing, given in pill format to treat C. difficile infections (which can start when the normal bacteria that colonize a person's gastrointestinal tract are killed off by antibiotics given for another problem).
posted by adamg at 7:18 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


For more information, check out the educational pamphlet "Eat Shit and Live"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:22 AM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: James Comey leaked CLASSIFIED INFORMATION to the media. That is so illegal!

*Sigh* ...Yes, which is why "That is so illegal!" on Twitter is what we're hearing, and not "COMEY CHARGED WITH FELONY (Former FBI head 'totally fucked,' say most experts)" screaming from every headline.
posted by Rykey at 7:31 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Philip Bump, WaPo: Trump accuses James Comey of breaking the law — based on a misleading Fox News report
It’s true that “the former FBI director’s personal memos detailing private conversations with President Trump contained … secret information,” as the Fox report summarizes, though not, apparently, top secret material. (The levels of classifications go “confidential,” “secret” and then “top secret.”) But the wording on that Fox report is misleading. The memos contained classified information is true when considering the memos as a group. It is not true, though, that each memo contained classified information — or, at least, it’s not true that each memo was marked as being classified.

TL;DR: no evidence that the particular memo Comey leaked was classified.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:36 AM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


Chrysostom: McCain says [BRCA] is probably dead, needs to start over as bipartisan process.

What is this hot bullshit? How is it that the GOP can't pass their "kill 'em all and led God sort 'em out" anti-health bill when they control THE HOUSE, SENATE AND WHITE HOUSE?

WHAT THE EVERLOVING FOOK?

"We can't get shit done ourselves, let's talk to the Dems." ????

How would collaboration work when the GOP talking point has been "repeal and replace," which is polling terribly? Are they trying to pedal a softened version of the bill, still being disastrous but "opening the store" [Twitter link]* to more centrist/ craven Dems?

* Text of the/a** tweet: "Vote expected in mid-July. Republican staff reportedly told lobbyists “The store is open”—meaning they think they can buy off moderates."

** Sorry, I can't directly access Twitter here, but the Google cache indicates this text is somewhere when you load that link. Twitter via Google cache is a hot mess.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:39 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Pema Levy, Mother Jones: These Three Lawyers Are Quietly Purging Voter Rolls Across the Country (via)
In June 2014, Miller and her four fellow election commissioners received a letter threatening legal action if they did not purge voters from the rolls. The letter came from the American Civil Rights Union (ACRU), a Virginia-based group that has fashioned itself in recent years as a conservative counterpart to the ACLU. The ACRU requested that the commissioners reduce the number of registered voters by the midterm elections that fall because, it claimed, there were more people registered than there were voting-age citizens in the county. The commissioners wanted to fight back, but lacking the funds to hire an attorney, they decided not to respond and waited to see what would happen next.

The letter they had received was one of many that the ACRU had started sending to small, rural counties across Mississippi, Texas, Kentucky, Alabama, and Arizona the year before. These letters were part of a legal campaign spearheaded by three former Justice Department officials from the George W. Bush administration to purge voter rolls across the country. The effort began in remote areas with few resources for legal defense, but recently it’s expanded to include population centers in key swing states. Voting rights advocates worry that the campaign is targeting minorities and likely Democratic voters.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:41 AM on July 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


McCain says [BRCA] is probably dead,

How is it I never noticed before that the Republican Senate's healthcare bill shares a name with a gene family that causes breast cancer?
posted by Slothrup at 7:42 AM on July 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Eat Shit and Live"

They no longer offer that as an option on NH plates for some reason.
posted by Behemoth at 7:42 AM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


TL;DR: no evidence that the particular memo Comey leaked was classified.

He also didn't leak any memos. He leaked some information from one or two memos but didn't show the actual documents to anybody outside the gubmint. Based on how carefully he avoided answering public hearing questions that would divulge classified material and deferred that to closed meetings, I'm confident that he, unlike the president, knows what he could and couldn't share.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:43 AM on July 10, 2017 [24 favorites]


McCain says [BRCA] is probably dead,

How is it I never noticed before that the Republican Senate's healthcare bill shares a name with a gene family that causes breast cancer?


The bill is the Better Care Reconciliation Act, or BCRA.
posted by Etrigan at 7:46 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Since Mueller has been pretty quiet (which I think is a good thing), here's an administrative update: Special Counsel Mueller Lets His Actions Do The Talking: 15 Hires, More to Come (NPR, July 8, 2017)
Robert Mueller has made no public comment since he was named to lead the Department of Justice investigation into Russian interference in last year's election.

Instead, he has let his actions do the talking. The former FBI director and decorated U.S. Marine has submitted a budget and quietly hired an all-star team that includes 15 Justice Department prosecutors. And, a spokesman for Mueller said, he's not done bringing on new lawyers.

That has gotten the attention of supporters of President Trump, who recently made an attack ad* calling the investigation a "rigged game" and blasting the special counsel for hiring at least four lawyers who have donated to Democrats.

But don't expect Mueller to mount a defense. He does his talking in the courtroom, not on social media. In fact, Mueller recently got a nod of support from Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who said he didn't think political donations amounted to a conflict of interest.

Mueller has not described the scope of what his team will examine.
* Unless there's some update I haven't seen, the ad was from The Great American Alliance, a pro-President Trump nonprofit, not directly from Trump.

And NPR also had another story I didn't see yet: Advocates Worry Trump Administration Wants To Revamp Motor Voter Law
Lost in the uproar last week over a written request by a White House commission for state voter registration lists was another letter sent that same day. It came from the civil rights division of the U.S. Justice Department (DOJ), and asked states for details on how they're complying with a requirement in the National Voter Registration Act (NVRA) — also known as the motor-voter law — that election officials keep their voting lists accurate and up to date.

The timing and focus of the two letters — one from the commission and the other from DOJ — has made some voter advocacy groups nervous about what the Trump administration is up to, and whether its ultimate goal is to weaken or revamp the motor voter law.

"It's very concerning," said Brenda Wright, vice president of policy and legal strategies at Demos, a liberal advocacy group that's been fighting state efforts to purge voters from the rolls. Wright notes that the main purpose of the motor voter law is to expand opportunities to register to vote, but that millions of eligible Americans are still unregistered.

"The problems that DOJ should be focusing on are that too few eligible people have access to the vote and are voting. DOJ going after states to force them to do more purging is exactly the opposite of what the department should be doing," she said.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:52 AM on July 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


I wonder what the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee has been tweeting lately?

@ChuckGrassley: 52 Republicazn senators shld be ashamed that we have not passed health reform by now WE WONT BE ASHAMED WE WILL GO FROM MAJORITY TO MINORITY

@ChuckGrassley: Dems:Don't go berserk abtTrump Assoc talking w a Russian lawyer abt Russia adoption policy,I & a Dem Sen did same advocacy w Russ ForeignMin

OK great thanks
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:55 AM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


Dems:Don't go berserk abtTrump Assoc talking w a Russian lawyer abt Russia adoption policy,I & a Dem Sen did same advocacy w Russ ForeignMin



omfg this makes me want to scream forever.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:57 AM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


"We can't get shit done ourselves, let's talk to the Dems." ????

Curiously, this is the exact line being test-flown by the Tories - well, May: it's not clear whether she's actually representing the Tory party right now, nor if the Tories can be described as a single party - in a 'We can't do Brexit alone, we need Labour to help out' speech that's due to hit tomorrow. So 45's 'super-Brexit' plan is still holding up.

(I'm still quietly gobsmacked by the revelation that Farage gave Bannon an oil painting of Bannon-as-Napoleon. That's a hook from which you could hang an analysis piece thirty miles long.)
posted by Devonian at 8:01 AM on July 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


@ChuckGrassley: Dems:Don't go berserk abtTrump Assoc talking w a Russian lawyer abt Russia adoption policy,I & a Dem Sen did same advocacy w Russ ForeignMin

N then we lyd abt it fr mnths & mnths just like O wait no we didnt oops pls someone give me nu talkin pts thx
posted by Etrigan at 8:04 AM on July 10, 2017 [46 favorites]


@ChuckGrassley: Dems:Don't go berserk abtTrump Assoc talking w a Russian lawyer abt Russia adoption policy,I & a Dem Sen did same advocacy w Russ ForeignMin

And this tweet from yesterday morning is why you never try to defend the Trumps. Within hours Donny Jr changed his story and admitted it wasn't about adoption, but rather getting oppo on Clinton. Just like Mnuchin and McMaster saying yesterday the Cyber taskforce was a huge accomplishment from G20 and then Trump tweeting last night 'Psych, just kidding.'
posted by chris24 at 8:05 AM on July 10, 2017 [39 favorites]


Dems:Don't go berserk abtTrump Assoc talking w a Russian lawyer abt Russia adoption policy,I & a Dem Sen did same advocacy w Russ ForeignMin

Da fuq?

Does he even get that one situation is diplomacy and the other is a foreign government delivering illicitly acquired oppo during an election?!?

Or I suppose the real question is, does he even care about that distinction?
posted by Talez at 8:05 AM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


It's been what, two days? And we're up to three stories about the meeting, now.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:10 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


I really wonder if it's possible that prTmu will see the inside of a jail cell for what he's done. That Mueller is hiring all these prosecutors - what does it mean? Are they building an ironclad case against the top of the pyramid, or are they just going to attack everywhere? Doesn't he need investigators too, or has that already been done?
posted by um at 8:14 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Doesn't he need investigators too, or has that already been done?

The investigations (or rather collecting the evidence) involve legal wrangling of a lot of people who don't necessarily want to piss off the president by stabbing him in the back by giving Mueller everything he needs to put people in jail cells.

It's not wearing shoe leather, it's subpoenaing every bank, associate, enemy, etc that the group can lay their hands on.
posted by Talez at 8:27 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Don Jr.: I never saw this Russian vase before in my life. Also, it was broken when I borrowed it. Also, when I returned it it was in perfect condition.
posted by delfin at 8:29 AM on July 10, 2017 [52 favorites]


Are they building an ironclad case against the top of the pyramid, or are they just going to attack everywhere?

They start at the bottom and flip people on their way up. Pressure lower-level people into dishing on their superiors, repeat.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:29 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


NPR: But members of Congress and other lawyers involved in the probe described the main lines of inquiry as: Russian meddling in the presidential election; whether anyone inside the United States conspired to help; and whether any wrongdoing has been committed in the surprise firing of FBI Director James Comey, who said he believed he was let go to relieve pressure on the Russia probe.

The guy who fired him went on TV two days later and said that is indeed why he fired him. So.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:29 AM on July 10, 2017 [31 favorites]


How likely do you guys think it is that before this is all over, every member of the Trump family will have accidentally confessed to a crime in the national media

If memory serves me correctly, Trump told NBC on camera that he removed Comey to stymie the FBI investigation into the Russian connection. Now you have his son implicating himself in a ham-handed attempt to explain himself. So, pretty darn soon?
posted by Gelatin at 8:30 AM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


I really wonder if it's possible that prTmu will see the inside of a jail cell for what he's done.

I have my doubts (b/c these slimy fucks always slip away), but I'd expect that some of the lower-level associates might get nailed. I'd guess Donny Jr and Jared at a minimum. Ivanka gets away, Eric is too dumb and maybe gets some big-ass fines for financial shenanigans associated with his charity. Flynn's probably already talking for a plea deal. Bannon, Miller, Priebus, Conway probably have some kind of deniability.
posted by Existential Dread at 8:33 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


How likely do you guys think it is that before this is all over, every member of the Trump family will have accidentally confessed to a crime in the national media

The question is whether Tiffany or Barron turns out to be the real puppetmaster.
posted by Etrigan at 8:34 AM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


The really big question is how republicans in congress react when the pre-emptive pardons start to flow. Because you know he goes there at the moment his back is against the wall. I tend to doubt any of the crime family members will see a jail cell, I suspect. Our best hope is that the popular level of disgust at the fecal transplant in the Oval Office is sufficient to uncouple him from his congressional enablers. But it will surely be pardons all around of it comes to that. When has he ever stopped short of any abuse of power before?
posted by spitbull at 8:37 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


And that of course depends on a strong prosecutorial case. So Mueller remains key.
posted by spitbull at 8:39 AM on July 10, 2017


I was daydreaming about all the horrible shit Trump could pull if he felt he was going down and he just wanted to take revenge on the country. Things like "I hereby pardon all federal prisoners." That would be interesting!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:41 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


chris24: this tweet from yesterday morning is why you never try to defend the Trumps.

My lesson: don't try to ever cover for a serial liar, because you'll be left looking like a patsy and idiot as the liar changes the story again.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:59 AM on July 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: I was daydreaming about all the horrible shit Trump could pull if he felt he was going down and he just wanted to take revenge on the country. Things like "I hereby pardon all federal prisoners." That would be interesting!

That would require that he's either 1) imagining himself as something of a cartoon villain in a Con Air scenario, but without the secret hero who'll save the day, or 2) that he has any care about the ridiculous industrial prison complex.

More likely, he'll write a stack of pardons for himself and his family and cronies, do all he can to get everyone government contracts with instant payouts, and passing all the executive orders he can to create a post-apocalypse-type landscape of messes for other people to clean up, a la a chase through a crowded market.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but 2017 has generally ruined my ability for optimistic daydreams when it comes anything related to the current administration.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:04 AM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Tiffany is quietly fuming that this is going to f*ck up her recording career.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 9:06 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Kushner is in a world of hurt [citation needed], because he didn't disclose this meeting on his security clearance paperwork until the other day.
posted by phearlez at 9:08 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


More likely, he'll write a stack of pardons for himself and his family and cronies, do all he can to get everyone government contracts with instant payouts, and passing all the executive orders he can to create a post-apocalypse-type landscape of messes for other people to clean up, a la a chase through a crowded market.

And pre-emptively blame Obama for them. ("I tried to fix things, but Obama fucked up the country so much that even I couldn't do it.") Pretty sure that's the play to save face.
posted by gaspode at 9:09 AM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


The really big question is how republicans in congress react when the pre-emptive pardons start to flow. Because you know he goes there at the moment his back is against the wall. I tend to doubt any of the crime family members will see a jail cell, I suspect.

That's what the New York STATE investigation is for. He can't pardon those away.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:10 AM on July 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


Tiffany is quietly fuming that this is going to f*ck up her recording career.

Could've had a different dad. Could've had a different life. Could've sucked him dry while I was the apple of his eye!
posted by Talez at 9:10 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]




Charlie Pierce: This Is Voter Terrorism
Since Monday, according to official counts, the office has seen 270 of its voters cancel their registration. About 70 have asked for confidential status, in which they sign an affidavit saying they feel their safety is at risk. That is a seismic boom for an office that typically sees just a handful of such asks each week— if that, says Mircalla Wozniak, an elections division spokeswoman. The sticky notes in Boulder, since taken away by recycling, are the fluttering physical sign of a stark reality following a week that swept this state's election officials into a swirl of controversy.
This is precisely how terrorism works. You scare people out of exercising their freedom. Since the Republicans went all in on voter suppression—up to and including the declaration by Chief Justice John Roberts of the Day of Jubilee in Shelby County—this is what people like Kris Kobach, and his acolyte, Wayne Williams, have been aiming for. (Williams is one of the secretaries of state who has fully complied with Kobach's fraudulent committee's requests for voter data. Colorado is a purple state trending heavily blue. This is not a coincidence.) Tell me how this is different than shaking someone down.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:13 AM on July 10, 2017 [63 favorites]


Doesn't a preemptive pardon also remove 5th amendment protections? Since there's no longer a possibility of self-incrimination (legally speaking)? Or is that just moon law?
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:14 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


That's what the New York STATE investigation is for. He can't pardon those away.

You have more faith than me. I suspect by then President Mike Pence will benefit from a media obsessed with how we will Heal The Country, because after all Both Sides Do It.
posted by spitbull at 9:16 AM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


remove 5th amendment protections?

A preemptive pardon makes it necessary to actually say you can't remember anything, it's true.
posted by spitbull at 9:17 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Doesn't a preemptive pardon also remove 5th amendment protections? Since there's no longer a possibility of self-incrimination (legally speaking)? Or is that just moon law?

Brown vs Walker: "The majority reasoned that one was excused from testifying only if there could be legal detriment flowing from his act of testifying. If a statute of limitations had run or if a pardon had been issued with regard to a particular offense, a witness could not claim the privilege and refuse to testify, no matter how much other detriment, such as loss of reputation, would attach to his admissions. Therefore, since the statute acted as a pardon or amnesty and relieved the witness of all legal detriment, he must testify. The four dissenters contended essentially that the privilege protected against being compelled to incriminate oneself regardless of any subsequent prosecutorial effort, id. at 610, and that a witness was protected against infamy and disparagement as much as prosecution."
posted by chris24 at 9:17 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]




Kushner is in a world of hurt [citation needed]1

1. Cooper, Jon (Twitter, 4:12 PM - 25 May 2017). 'WH staffer upon learning from NBC News that Jared Kushner is under FBI investigation in the Russia probe: "Jared is so fucked."'
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:20 AM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


@CNNnewsroom
Ex-CIA agent Robert Baer on Trump Jr mtg: "It's a clear signal to the Russians the Trumps were looking for help" [video]

@juliettekayyem Retweeted CNN Newsroom
Bob Baer has it right. The meeting itself, content aside, was the signal. #DonaldTrumpJr

----

And if that wasn't clear enough, a month later Trump asked them to hack Clinton in a press conference.
posted by chris24 at 9:23 AM on July 10, 2017 [48 favorites]


Does [Grassley] even get that one situation is diplomacy and the other is a foreign government delivering illicitly acquired oppo during an election?!?

Hey, if Republicans couldn't offer spurious arguments, they couldn't offer any arguments at all.

Just remember: Treason charges require at least two witness to the same overt act.
posted by Gelatin at 9:24 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Intercept reports that Jared Kushner tried and failed to get a half-billion-dollar bailout from Qatar. Opening paragraph:
NOT LONG BEFORE a major crisis ripped through the Middle East, pitting the United States and a bloc of Gulf countries against Qatar, Jared Kushner’s real estate company had unsuccessfully sought a critical half-billion dollar investment from one of the richest and most influential men in the tiny nation, according to three well-placed sources with knowledge of the near transaction.
Surely this has nothing to do with the blockade.
posted by pjenks at 9:24 AM on July 10, 2017 [39 favorites]


The know-nothing party.

58% of Republicans think college is a bad thing. Only 36% think it's a positive.

Yep, college is a -22 with Rs.

And from the same poll, only 10% think the media is a positive, 85% negative.
posted by chris24 at 9:27 AM on July 10, 2017 [45 favorites]


National Treasure Charles P. Pierce of Esquire: This Is Voter Terrorism

Denver has seen a 2,150 percent increase in voters cancelling their registration in recent days. There were 180 on July 6 alone. "In over 12 years of administering elections I never expected to see a day in the office where we would have more withdrawals than new registrations— and that happened yesterday," she told The Colorado Independent. "So, it's real."

Despite what you may have read, Kris Kobach's letter to the Secretaries of State specifically only requested information be provided if it was publicly available. Kobach could have simply filled out the regular forms provided by the various Secretary of State's offices, and no-one would have noticed. For example, here is the form for Iowa.

Kobach instead chose to make his request in a non-standard way, and many of the States have been forced to reject the request. My belief is that he intended for his requests to be publicly rejected, for two reasons: firstly, in order to facilitate tweets such as this, allowing the absurd fear of widespread voter fraud to be promoted. Secondly, to cause individuals who are fearful of the Trump administration to also become fearful of being registered to vote.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:27 AM on July 10, 2017 [37 favorites]


58% of Republicans think college is a bad thing. Only 36% think it's a positive.

The question is worded weirdly, though, just to temper this a little. It's posed as a matter of whether colleges are better or worse for the direction of the country. Which is different from asking whether going to college might be good for someone personally.

It's certainly not new news to me that Republicans view academia as an institution negatively. They've been banging on about liberal university professors indoctrinating kids forever.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:31 AM on July 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


WW1: Heir-presumptive to Austro-Hungarian throne assassinated.
WW2: Germany invades Poland.
WW3: President's son-in-law tries to obtain a loan for his real estate business.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:37 AM on July 10, 2017 [19 favorites]




It's posed as a matter of whether colleges are better or worse for the direction of the country

Not exactly. It doesn't say direction. It asks 'Does XXX have a negative/positive effect on the way things are going in the country.' So yes, not exactly 'is college good/bad', but it's as much a current state of affairs/overall health measure as it is a proxy for perceived partisan trend. And the positive rate has dropped 18% points in the last 2 years among Republicans. So something has changed, even from their longtime war against liberal elites.
"Over the past two years, the share of Republicans and Republican leaners who view the impact of colleges and universities positively has declined 18 percentage points (from 54% to 36%), and this shift in opinion has occurred across most demographic and ideological groups within the GOP."
posted by chris24 at 9:40 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


You'd think the Democrats would want to be blaring the voter suppression siren from every rooftop, seeing as how these actions are designed to ensure they can never win another election, but...shit, I guess the party leadership doesn't want to appear too partisan or something.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:43 AM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


You'd think the Democrats would want to be blaring the voter suppression siren from every rooftop, seeing as how these actions are designed to ensure they can never win another election

And they're a frank and blatant admission by the Republicans that they don't appeal to a majority of voters and can't win without cheating.

Here's a handy script for any Democrat who talks to the media about the subject:

"Voter suppression efforts are a frank and blatant admission by the Republicans that they don't appeal to a majority of voters and can't win without cheating."

Repeat, repeat, repeat.
posted by Gelatin at 9:47 AM on July 10, 2017 [67 favorites]


You'd think the Democrats would want to be blaring the voter suppression siren from every rooftop

Maybe I'm in a slightly better timeline, but I'm seeing a lot of blaring from a lot of rooftops on this.
posted by Etrigan at 9:50 AM on July 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


Gov. Jay Inslee, Lt. Gov. Cyrus Habib, and the Washington Sec State are definitely vocally pushing back on Kobach's voter suppression horseshit. I think leadership in other states are doing the same. It would be nice for the national leadership to push harder, but states seem to be pushing hard against this.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:55 AM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Don’t Leave Health Care to a Free Market by Farzon A. Nahvi, an emergency medicine physician and an instructor of emergency medicine in New York City.
"Most dismaying for me as a physician is that after all of my attempts to apply my compassion and training to save their lives, all three of these patients told me some variant of: “Thanks for what you’re doing, but I would rather that you hadn’t.” Even the man with the brain bleed, who certainly would have died without our immediate intervention, expressed dismay. In the neurology intensive care unit, with a bolt through his skull to measure the pressure around his brain, he told me that while he did not have health insurance, he did have life insurance. He said he would rather have died and his family gotten that money than have lived and burdened them with the several-hundred-thousand-dollar bill, and likely bankruptcy, he was now stuck with."

posted by zarq at 9:57 AM on July 10, 2017 [71 favorites]


"We can't get shit done ourselves, let's talk to the Dems." ????

Translation: We need to get the Democrats involved in this somehow so we can change the narrative to blaming them rather than blaming ourselves. Hopefully nobody will notice it's still the same math.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:07 AM on July 10, 2017 [31 favorites]


Adoption sounds family-friendly, so they cling to that word. The real subj. was a free pass for human rights abuses, which sounds like shit.

Set your secret decoder rings: on hearing “adoptions” always translate to “Russian human rights violations”


Set decoder to also include the sanctions law passed in 2012 to punish Russia for those human rights violations. A law that passed a Republican House and Senate 365-43 and 92-4. So they're not just trying to elide human rights violations, but also overturning overwhelmingly passed Republican sanctions/law.
posted by chris24 at 10:08 AM on July 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


You'd think the Democrats...

I say/think this all the time, and I still don't understand how the party works.
posted by cell divide at 10:09 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


58% of Republicans think college is a bad thing.

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:31 AM on July 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


> Maybe I'm in a slightly better timeline, but I'm seeing a lot of blaring from a lot of rooftops on this.

I'm glad to hear it. I'm in Canada, and from inside my bubble it seems like this is getting lost amidst all the general Trumpian nonsense.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:36 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


58% of Republicans think college is a bad thing. Only 36% think it's a positive.

It just writes itself:

* Something something worthless liberal arts degrees
* HURR DURR GENDER STUDIES DO YOU WANT FRIES WITH THAT
* Real men go into The Trades!!!!!111111eleventy!
* My sister-in-law's hairdresser's cousin is a plumber and he makes six figures and no student loans! Therefore, college is a ripoff.

I noticed in the linked article that even conservative Republicans who went to college now think college is a bad thing. Hm.

I do not think it's a coincidence that conservative Republican's opinion of college has nosedived around the same time that 1) it started to sink in that more women than men were attending and graduating from college, and 2) well-educated Hillary Clinton was the Democratic Presidential candidate.

Student loan burden is a problem, as is the fact that college is pushed as a universal panacea for the decline of the middle class and as a way to exempt businesses from any kind of actual job training. Of course, Democrats also see these as problems, but the left-wing solution is not "get rid of college" but "make it less expensive" as well as "everyone, college grad or no, should have a way to make a living."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:47 AM on July 10, 2017 [27 favorites]


I noticed in the linked article that even conservative Republicans who went to college now think college is a bad thing. Hm.

What happened such that science, medicine, and learning are now considered enemies to be combated? It's not as though there weren't ignorant people back in the '50 and '60s and yet that was the era of Sputnik and the space program.

What's the lever here?

Is it the erosion of the middle class due to greater automation? Was it the abolition of the Fairness Doctrine? The defeat of the external enemy (Soviet Union)? The gradual erosion of New Deal and Great Society programs? Lead exposure in seniors?

What the hell is happening to cause this burst in dumbening and xenophobia? I'm betting that it's ultimately economic, as that's usually the trigger for all sorts of dark stuff coming out of the closet. When things look like they're getting worse, people get scared and angry and look for someone to blame. But it's not like economic dislocation is a new thing. Why such ignorant anger now? Are we missing the scope of the economic disruption of working and middle class Americans?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:10 AM on July 10, 2017 [20 favorites]


Rosie M. Banks: "Student loan burden is a problem, as is the fact that college is pushed as a universal panacea for the decline of the middle class and as a way to exempt businesses from any kind of actual job training. Of course, Democrats also see these as problems, but the left-wing solution is not "get rid of college" but "make it less expensive" as well as "everyone, college grad or no, should have a way to make a living.""

For all the things we could hate on Trumpists for, their hatred of higher education makes an amazing amount of sense.

We all know that having a bachelor's in psychology doesn't teach you how to work in an HR department any better than someone who hasn't. College is, in this day and age, almost completely about status and morality. There's no learning purpose there. Trumpists have correctly identified that universities are primarily centers of indoctrination (yes, indoctrination for the better) without a corresponding real world benefit to them.

It's a completely rational notion for a subculture that is severely threatened by their members obtaining knowledge. And since our socioeconomic climate doesn't reward knowledge or skill anymore, why bother?
posted by TypographicalError at 11:12 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Politico: Senate GOP aims to release new health bill by week’s end
Senate Republicans are hoping to unveil a revamped draft of their legislation to repeal and replace Obamacare by the end of this week, though there are major questions about how it will address roiling GOP disagreement over a proposal touted by conservative senators.

New bill text could be unveiled to senators as soon as Thursday, according to sources familiar with the proposal. A Congressional Budget Office score is likely to follow as soon as next Monday; a vote could come by the end of next week.
...
Republicans need "divine intervention" to get the negotiations back on track, said a Republican aide. Another aide said the negotiations aren't expected to move significantly until the new CBO scores are released. The score on the Cruz amendment, if CBO can finish it, could show premiums spiking high enough to kill the proposal. The amendment does not currently have the support to pass the Senate.

"They'll give Cruz every opportunity to sell his solution this week. He's going to be the one making the sell this week. The question is whether the Cruz-Lee amendment costs you votes. The votes are clearly not there right now," said a person familiar with the negotiations.
Here we go again. I have to say, I'm cautiously encouraged if the fate of this thing rests in Ted Cruz's hands, but you know the drill, call your Senators, etc, etc,...

SF Chronicle: Leave Kate Steinle out of the immigration debate
Her family members do not want her name to be in the center of a political controversy. They want room to grieve, and to reflect on and honor her life in their own ways.

“I don’t know who coined ‘Kate’s Law,’” Jim Steinle, her father, told me Friday. “It certainly wasn’t us.”

In fact, the Steinles’ views on immigration policy are far more nuanced than the debates that dominate the screamfests on cable news. As they explained in an interview with me in September 2015, the Steinles are not opposed to sanctuary cities. They recognize the value of allowing otherwise law-abiding immigrants to report crimes or go to a hospital without fear of deportation.

Their issue was with then-Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi’s recklessly absolutist interpretation of the policy that effectively prohibited any communication with federal immigration officials.

As for “Kate’s Law,” her father said he supports it on the chance it could save even one life. But he would much prefer to keep his daughter’s name out of it.
...
Jim Steinle made plain that he has no interest in doing further interviews, or otherwise seeing his daughter’s name raised by either side in such a charged and often vitriolic debate.

“You just hope it ends someday,” he said. “I don’t know when.”
One interesting detail is that The Hill story about the Comey memos, picked up by Fox News and then by the President getting Mad Online because he saw something he didn't like on the TV, was written by John Solomon, of Sinclair Broadcasting/Circa (which John Oliver well tell you all about if you're unfamiliar). The next day (today), The Hill announced Solomon was joining as EVP for digital video. The Hill is kind of a weird beast, in that it seems to do some quality Congressional reporting, but it also seems to have little in the way of editorial standards; they're the ones who published Flynn's Turkey op-ed, now with an editor's note acknowledging he was acting as a foreign agent at the time and his client reviewed the draft.

Unless I'm missing it, Solomon's story doesn't mention asking Comey or Professor Richman for comment, just the FBI. Professor Richman spoke to NBC News: Comey Friend Responds to Trump Tweet About ‘Illegal’ Leaks:
No evidence has surfaced supporting that charge. Three of the memos were classified from the beginning, and were never shared with Richman, the professor tells NBC News.

Of the remaining four, a small portion — much less than half — has been retroactively deemed classified, said a Congressional source familiar with the matter.

The retroactive classification may lead to criticism of Comey, since that was exactly the process that stung Hillary Clinton during the campaign.
And from the Monmouth Poll of NJ residents, "another 6% of those polled simply used some form of profanity to express their sentiments about Christie's beach day." Frankly, that seems low.
posted by zachlipton at 11:12 AM on July 10, 2017 [27 favorites]


posted by leotrotsky

Eponysterical.
posted by Melismata at 11:12 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


College is, in this day and age, almost completely about status and morality. There's no learning purpose there.

Uh, I prefer my bridges and buildings not to collapse, thanks. I also prefer my medicines to be of the proper dosage, and my surgeons to be competent. I also like my nuclear reactors to not dispose a large cloud of radioactive material upon the surrounding counties.

I also like my fellow citizens to possess a modicum of critical thinking skills, as well as some knowledge of the history of this country, what has worked, and what most definitely has NOT worked.

...but no learning purpose, sure.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:16 AM on July 10, 2017 [92 favorites]


College is, in this day and age, almost completely about status and morality. There's no learning purpose there.

S'true. I could have learned about astrophysics on the internet instead.
posted by lydhre at 11:19 AM on July 10, 2017 [25 favorites]


Some seriously great protesting going on in senators' offices today. For example:
Woman with 16 chronic illnesses delivers speech directly to Flake staffer holding back tears

and

Police encircling Flake and Cruz sit in protesters on either side

(Does anyone else find themselves tearing up multiple times a day reading the news?)
posted by mcduff at 11:20 AM on July 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


College education has become a problem for conservatives all over the world ever since they abandoned knowledge and science. This really took on force during the Bush years.

It's not at all about the humanities, though they are an easy target for spiteful conservatives. If you learn economics, you'll see that in the long run we need to deal with global warming. A medical student will learn that preventive care is more efficient. An engineering student will understand that ressources are limited. (This is simplified and universities are different)

Going to college is a bit like moving to a big city, you can stick to your beliefs in spite of the facts in front of you, but it is a lot harder. This is also a reply to some comments above: liberals remain liberal if they move out into the suburbs or small towns, but most conservatives become liberal when they move to the city. Republicans know this, so they do not want suburbs or small towns to become attractive to liberals.

In terms of gender, I think the biggest problem is that uneducated men are less attractive as partners, and this again leads to resentment and a whole web of complications. Including medical complications: single men are a very vulnerable demographic.
posted by mumimor at 11:20 AM on July 10, 2017 [33 favorites]


What the hell is happening to cause this burst in dumbening and xenophobia?

White Christian America sees college as that place where good christian boys and girls go to become heathen liberals. It's so true they might start a civil war over it.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:20 AM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


White Christian America sees college as that place where good christian boys and girls go to become heathen liberals

The best place to do that is the divinity school.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:25 AM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


leotrotsky: "College is, in this day and age, almost completely about status and morality. There's no learning purpose there.

Uh, I prefer my bridges and buildings not to collapse, thanks. I also prefer my medicines to be of the proper dosage, and my surgeons to be competent. I also like my nuclear reactors to not dispose a large cloud of radioactive material upon the surrounding counties.

I also like my fellow citizens to possess a modicum of critical thinking skills, as well as some knowledge of the history of this country, what has worked, and what most definitely has NOT worked.

...but no learning purpose, sure.
"

Firstly, sure, there are a significant amount of people getting engineering degrees at colleges. There are a lot more getting MBAs and investigating Dostoevsky. I think those things are useful (one moreso than the other), but whether or not they make you more suitable as an economic creature is arguable.

Secondly, I agree that critical thinking skills are good, but who cares if you're entering numbers into a spreadsheet? Your middle manager boss does not.

I agree that college and education is a moral and societal good, but you'll find that Trumpists don't care about societal goods, which makes their rejection of higher education pretty rational all-told. (This isn't a position which will carry them into a future where the Earth isn't a boiling hellscape, but them's the breaks.)
posted by TypographicalError at 11:26 AM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


The best place to do that is the divinity school.

Heh, that was very true in places like the Episcopal Divinity School and other places in the Boston area. They're now all closing up shop. :(
posted by Melismata at 11:28 AM on July 10, 2017


What happened such that science, medicine, and learning are now considered enemies to be combated?

Because over and over, on topics from global warming to sex education to economics to gun control, data fairly conclusively suggests policies Republicans don't want (or would, in the latter case, if the Republicans weren't apparently so afraid of data doing so that they forbid the CDC to collect it in the first place -- as candid an admission of bad faith as you're likely to find in a party that makes bad faith its watchword).
posted by Gelatin at 11:29 AM on July 10, 2017 [16 favorites]


zachlipton: New [anti-health-care] bill text could be unveiled to senators as soon as Thursday, according to sources familiar with the proposal.

Waitwaitwait, aren't the senators supposed to be the ones penning this thing? And I guess the whole "we'll have to work with the Dems" was just a ruse?


leotrotsky: What the hell is happening to cause this burst in dumbening and xenophobia?

BentFranklin: The 1% don't want people to understand what is being done to them. Plain and simple.

Bread and circuses, plus fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD). Appeasement + disinformation = control.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:31 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


"College is, in this day and age, almost completely about status and morality."

I totally agree. This is how I got my last promotion:

Boss: Tarumba, please do a complete policy analysis on issue X with program revenue forecasts for the next five fiscal years.

Tarumba: *fans face with $20 dollar bill and pulls Honda key out of her pocket* did I tell you I'm middle class and once read a book about ethics in college?
posted by Tarumba at 11:36 AM on July 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


Firstly, sure, there are a significant amount of people getting engineering degrees at colleges. There are a lot more getting MBAs and investigating Dostoevsky

I'm not sure how Dostoevsky plays into this, but FWIW the numbers of engineering degrees and MBAs conferred per year are roughly equal: ~100K.
posted by rhizome at 11:42 AM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


The 1% don't want people to understand what is being done to them. Plain and simple.

I agree, but would like to add a little nuance: some among the 1% want the make the most out of their assets before everything goes up in flames. They also want to be able to treat workers as serfs, and they want to avoid taxes. They are well aware that this will not end well, but they don't care, because they imagine that they and their offspring will be able to escape the damages, whatever they end up being.
In order to achieve that, they need to persuade a huge number of people that science and knowledge is wrong
Because over and over, on topics from global warming to sex education to economics to gun control, data fairly conclusively suggests policies Republicans don't wantit's just your opinion, man</em
posted by mumimor at 11:43 AM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


OK - that last comment is completely broken. Like a surrealist collage. Maybe it is time for a new post?
posted by mumimor at 11:45 AM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Reality has a notoriously liberal bias.

Education teaches you about reality.

Therefore, education is anti-conservative.
posted by Devonian at 11:46 AM on July 10, 2017 [34 favorites]


College work involves the development of strong critical thinking skills, whether you're writing a paper on teapot designs in the 12th century or budgetary inefficiencies in local government.

We could do with a lot more critical thinking in this country.
posted by Tarumba at 11:47 AM on July 10, 2017 [32 favorites]


One interesting detail is that The Hill story about the Comey memos, picked up by Fox News and then by the President getting Mad Online because he saw something he didn't like on the TV, was written by John Solomon, of Sinclair Broadcasting/Circa

And Josh Marshall is 8,000 steps ahead of me with everything you need to know about John Solomon, who has apparently been on Marshall's list for over a decade.
Years ago John Solomon was either the lead or one of the lead politics reporters at AP. He had a well-earned reputation as the easiest mark in the business for GOP oppo research hits. It was actually a kind of running gag among Republican campaign operatives. No one will run with a story you’re trying to float? Bring it to John Solomon.

To be clear, all campaigns shop opposition research to reporters. Any good reporter is happy to get a solid, legit story almost no matter who the source. If the story is legit and can be verified, it’s fine. The key is whether it’s legit or whether there’s no there there. Or more specifically, what key is if the reporter will run the facts with your spin, even if the spin is bogus.

Solomon was the easiest mark.
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on July 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


I got an English degree in literature and creative writing and went on to have a 17+ year long career in programming and software engineering, so it's bs to disparage time spent "investigating Dostoevsky" as wasted time. Hell, I learned the basics of formal logic from the philosophy department and it's more applicable to IT work than most of what I learned studying science and math in college. Dostoevsky's grammatically and syntactically acrobatic style probably helped me with understanding nesting and nested clauses more than any math ever did. Anecdata, I guess.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:56 AM on July 10, 2017 [56 favorites]


So it turns out Macron isn't just against pensions, he's also a raging racist.

Everyone loves the right-wing great non-Le Pen hope of France. 5 seconds later....
posted by Yowser at 11:59 AM on July 10, 2017


Oh, and another thing, business schools probably turn out more leftists than Science departments. Because business schools actually talk about things like finite resources and exponential growth in a way that's foundational.
posted by Yowser at 12:02 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Hill: FEC complaint filed against HHS Secretary Price - he's accused of illegally using campaign funds to push for his Cabinet nomination.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:02 PM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


So it turns out Macron isn't just against pensions, he's also a raging racist.

Everyone loves the right-wing great non-Le Pen hope of France. 5 seconds later....


Yeah, this is extremely gross.

Between this and Angela Merkel voting against gay marriage, it's been a bad couple of weeks for the idea that the European center-right is significantly less bigoted and awful than it is in the US.
posted by Copronymus at 12:08 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


It's Milkshake Ducks all the way down.
posted by Servo5678 at 12:10 PM on July 10, 2017 [26 favorites]


Please, nobody tell me anything bad about Jeremy Corbyn.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:13 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Anton Nossik - dissident - died of a heartattack last night aged 51.
He was one of the "Godfathers" of the Russian internet.
posted by adamvasco at 12:13 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


dying of heart disease at 51 is, sadly, actually not suspicious, in Russia
posted by thelonius at 12:18 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Heart attack or "heart attack"?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:18 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah, this is extremely gross.

How do you say 'super predator' in French?
posted by rc3spencer at 12:19 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


College is, in this day and age, almost completely about status and morality. There's no learning purpose there.

College, including or even especially liberal arts degrees, are multi-year courses in information management and communication. From the point of view of an eventual employer, the important thing is not your mastery of Dostoevsky, as referenced before, or the specifics of most majors. The important thing is that you've learned, and can demonstrate that you've learned, to manage intense information inflows, to sift through that information flow to find what you need, to apply different pieces of information to the same argument or idea, and to communicate the important things from that information to somebody else.

So glad I'm no longer DUS and don't have to give that spiel fifteen different times at every parent/potential-student thing.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:20 PM on July 10, 2017 [44 favorites]


The know-nothing party.

58% of Republicans think college is a bad thing. Only 36% think it's a positive.

Yep, college is a -22 with Rs.

And from the same poll, only 10% think the media is a positive, 85% negative.


What are the numbers on coprophagia
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:23 PM on July 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump yesterday: "Sanctions were not discussed at my meeting with President Putin. Nothing will be done until the Ukrainian & Syrian problems are solved!"

Sarah Sanders today: "Today from @SHSanders45 on Putin meeting: "There were sanctions specific to election meddling that were discussed but not beyond that.""

They spent most of the off-camera briefing today complaining about Democratic obstruction, often citing nominations that the White House sat on for months. The hilarious part is that you'd think this is a message they would want to get out to the public, yet their disdain for the press led them to ban TV cameras, so nobody will see it. It seems they haven't figured out that having TV cameras pointed at you is positively correlated with having the things you say put on TV.
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 PM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


Yeah, the problems in Africa are 'civilizational'--namely that our so-called "Western Civilization" has left a legacy of depraved predation, colonialism, and exploitation throughout Africa, while not stopping and making substantial reparations for the damage done.

For fuck sake, folks like Macron should cut the victim blaming and quit rhetorically shitting all over African people and the advanced societies that have developed and still exist there.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:29 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


Which Party Was More Secretive in Working on Its Health Care Plan?
Republican lawmakers have had far fewer days of public activity on their health legislation in the first six months of this Congress as compared with the same period eight years ago when Democrats wrote the health care law, according to a New York Times analysis.
...
...so far, Republican lawmakers have had just nine days of public activity on the repeal bill, compared with 43 for the Affordable Care Act during the same six-month period.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:31 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Another major problem with unchecked and growing fascism: feeling like you have to elect terrible people in order to keep out the really, really terrible people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:32 PM on July 10, 2017 [35 favorites]


What are the numbers on coprophagia

Well since they hate college so much the chances of them knowing the meaning of the word coprophagia is pretty slim anyway. So how could they meaningfully tell you if they like it or not?
posted by ian1977 at 12:32 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


zachlipton: "I have to say, I'm cautiously encouraged if the fate of this thing rests in Ted Cruz's hands, but you know the drill, call your Senators, etc, etc,..."

Yeah, I'm always very skeptical of the 47th-dimensional chess type angle ("McConnell WANTS the bill to fail!"). But having Cruz be the person trying to sell this idea...you have to start to wonder.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:34 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


The important thing is that you've learned, and can demonstrate that you've learned, to manage intense information inflows, to sift through that information flow to find what you need, to apply different pieces of information to the same argument or idea, and to communicate the important things from that information to somebody else.

Also that you're able to do something that isn't necessarily in your particular wheelhouse (e.g., general ed courses). There are good and bad facets of buckling down and doing what you're told, but it's a definite skill that employers want.
posted by Etrigan at 12:34 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


This wonderful piece (in the Guardian) by philosopher Kwame Anthony Appiah, from last November, has been re-making the rounds since Trump's Warsaw speech in my circles:

"There is no such thing as western civilization."

Values aren’t a birthright: you need to keep caring about them. Living in the west, however you define it, being western, provides no guarantee that you will care about western civilisation. The values European humanists like to espouse belong just as easily to an African or an Asian who takes them up with enthusiasm as to a European. By that very logic, of course, they do not belong to a European who has not taken the trouble to understand and absorb them. The same, of course, is true in the other direction. The story of the golden nugget suggests that we cannot help caring about the traditions of “the west” because they are ours: in fact, the opposite is true. They are only ours if we care about them. A culture of liberty, tolerance, and rational inquiry: that would be a good idea. But these values represent choices to make, not tracks laid down by a western destiny.
posted by spitbull at 12:34 PM on July 10, 2017 [46 favorites]


Josh Marshall, Talking Points Memo: You’ve probably seen this story by John Solomon in The Hill. It claims that the memos James Comey had leaked to The New York Times in fact contained classified information.

Nope. Sorry, Josh. The article says that some of Comey's personal memos contained classified information. Comey specifically denied that those memos he leaked to the Times contained classified information. He says he created new memos which had the classified information removed. So, it seems like another GOP FUD Nothingburger Special.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


But you know Appiah teaches useless philosophy at a useless university. So there's that.
posted by spitbull at 12:36 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


So it turns out Macron isn't just against pensions, he's also a raging racist.
Everyone loves the right-wing great non-Le Pen hope of France. 5 seconds later....
Yeah, this is extremely gross.


Here are some tweets providing more context as well as the full clip (the tweeted video was edited to splice two statements closer together than they were originally). Not that his full statement isn't problematic; just be aware that this segment specifically was edited.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:36 PM on July 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


You Can't Tip a Buick: "I dunno comrade that sounds like a lot of milquetoast Menshevik reformism to me."

I assume you have a keyboard shortcut for that text.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:37 PM on July 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


"So it turns out Macron isn't just against pensions, he's also a raging racist".

Why, just why don't people choose to be educated and not poor? It's like something in the past put entire populations at a massive disadvantage and now they lack the infrastructure to catch up.

Like, I really wish that when the western world, ahem, decided that slavery and colonialism were too passé all the poor people read the memo so they could finally move on.

It's like they *want* their countries/cities/neighborhoods to be poor and institutionally bankrupt, if you think about it.
posted by Tarumba at 12:40 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Please enjoy Chris Christie's radio audition, in which Mike in Montclair calls the Governor a fat-ass and a bully, the Governor calls Mike a bum and a communist, and this actual exchange took place:
Mike: You know, you have bad optics and you're a bully
Gov. Christie: Oh, bad optics, Mike, I'd love to come look at your optics everyday buddy
posted by zachlipton at 12:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


For some reason the Christie thing reminded me of this gem from the archives, in case anyone needs a good laugh. In 1999, a frayed Rudy Giuliani was doing his weekly call in radio show on WABC radio when a caller (David from Woodside), who had called to harass Giuliani before, took him to task for his opposition to legalizing pet ferrets in NYC. What ensued is a true classic of the genre.
posted by spitbull at 12:49 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Upstream, leotrotsky asked what might be the impetus for the reviling of college. Sorry, on mobile, and cut and paste and links are problematic with big threads.

College, even public college, costs way more annually than the poverty line. Where is a kid from a family at that economic level supposed to come up with double their gross income? And yes, there are loans and grants, but that doesn't cover all of the costs, not even close. And if you are a kid from a middle income family, who isn't a 4.0 student with a ton of extracurricular activities, then good luck try I g to find any financial aid that isn't a high interest, non forgivable loan.

Who amongst us thinks that starting your twenties with a mortgage level loan that cannot be forgiven or bankruptcy away is a good idea?

When I went to university, the cost was $4 a credit hour, plus books, fees, and living expenses. I could afford to live off campus, with roommates, work 20 hours a week as a bartender, and graduate without debt.

That same university now mandates on campus living for the first two years, at a cost comparable to a nice apartment if you lived alone. This is a state, public university, that since it has been deregulated by the republicans now costs almost as much as Harvard. No kid can work and take classes and earn enough to pay for school, when it's almost 40k a year to go to public university.

So, I think we're starting to see a "sour grapes" phenomenon, where university has become so far out of rational reach for most Americans, but their entire school years they're told how only college graduates succeed in life, and many people are justifiably angry that this roadblock of hundreds of thousands of dollars is stopping them.

There's also the very real elitism that suggests anyone who chooses a trade is somehow a lesser member of society, and that rankles deeply with the blue collar folks I work with.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:53 PM on July 10, 2017 [53 favorites]


In 1999, a frayed Rudy Giuliani was doing his weekly call in radio show on WABC radio when a caller (David from Woodside), who had called to harass Giuliani before, took him to task for his opposition to legalizing pet ferrets in NYC. What ensued is a true classic of the genre.

Also, let's not forget--let's not forget, Dude--that keeping wildlife, an amphibious rodent, for uh...domestic, you know, within the city...that ain't legal either.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


against pensions

Minor derail... pensions are a huge issue everywhere right now. In the US, they eat up a larger and larger fraction of state government budgets, and are partly responsible for some of the shut downs. They are being eliminated at most private companies, and are spurring some of the huge fights with public sector unions.

Why are pensions becoming so unaffordable?

I can't help thinking it's all of a piece with the spiralling costs of health care, childcare, and education. Baumol's cost disease.

Things that can't be automated get more and more expensive relative to things that can be automated, as automation continues to spread. And it's impossible to automate labor that has occurred in the past...

Is this a thing other people have already thought about? Are there studies about this?

I've totally convinced myself all of the problems in the world right now are the leading edge of the automation-crisis. But I might be getting a little ahead of the actual data...
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Hill: "Now, the president is taking this issue directly to the president of Russia and raised it, so now I think the issue is officially dead," Lewandowski, who served as Trump's campaign manager, said on "Fox & Friends."

Lewandowski pointed to Putin's denial of interfering in the presidential election. He said Trump went straight to Putin, "and pressed him very tough to find out if Russia had anything to do with the outcome of the U.S. election."

"And from what Vladimir Putin said, the answer is 'no,'" Lewandowski added.


After all these months, these fellows still retain their ability to melt my brain.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:58 PM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


Politico: Senate GOP aims to release new health bill by week’s end

Could we please start calling the GOP healthcare legislation "Crapshoot Coverage"?

I only have 4 twitter followers, so I could use help spreading this.
posted by puddledork at 12:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Why are pensions becoming so unaffordable?

Largely because states and companies deferred contributions for 30 years in favor of tax cuts and bonuses and fucked current and future workers out of 30 years of growth.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [64 favorites]


Since Mueller has been pretty quiet (which I think is a good thing), here's an administrative update: Special Counsel Mueller Lets His Actions Do The Talking: 15 Hires, More to Come (NPR, July 8, 2017) filthy light thief

For fucking fuck's sake hurry the fucking hell UP. FUCK.
posted by yoga at 12:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


Pensions are going the way of the dodo, partially at least due to changing demographics. It's a lot easier to fund pensions when there are 10 workers for every retiree, not so much when there are 2 retirees for every worker.

My solution would be a universal basic income funded through a strongly progressive income tax, including a progressive capital gains tax. But that no doubt marks me as one step away from Lenin in Republican eyes.
posted by Justinian at 1:00 PM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


Which Party Was More Secretive in Working on Its Health Care Plan?

Which party has made all of its criticisms of the ACA in bad faith, including the phony claims of "secrecy"?

As secretive as the current process has been, the Republican plan still polls somewhere below syphilis. Maybe they're being secretive because they know, despite all the hollow chest-thumping, that taking insurance away from 20 million Americans to fund a tax cut for the rich is going to be hideously unpopular even with their own constituents?

That said, though McConnell may indeed be setting the hated Ted Cruz as the fall guy, make no mistake -- the House Republicans not only voted for it, but threw themselves a beer party to celebrate. And many in the Senate would, too. This dog's breakfast needs to be hung around the neck of every Republican down to dog catcher come the next election. Like the so-called "Tea Party' elections, make each and every one of them run away from it.

Especially in 2020.
posted by Gelatin at 1:00 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


I feel like I'm more worried than ever in this day and age of another Greensboro massacre, when Klan protesters and counter-protesters clash.

I'm more worried about another Bowling Green massacre. Can we really afford another fake massacre?
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:02 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Reality check: we are in a situation where the President of the United States openly admits to believing the word of the President of Russia over his entire US intelligence community.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:06 PM on July 10, 2017 [95 favorites]


Why are pensions becoming so unaffordable?

Largely because states and companies deferred contributions for 30 years in favor of tax cuts and bonuses and fucked current and future workers out of 30 years of growth.


Not unlike how states slashed higher education funding over the past several decades -- and I hate to admit it, but in Kentucky, where I grew up, this charge was led by a (particularly slimy) Democrat, businessman and college dropout Wallace Wilkinson.
posted by Gelatin at 1:09 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Republican Party can fulfill its promise to "repeal and replace Obamacare" by repealing it and replacing it with exactly the same bill. This will also allow them to continue railing against Obamacare. It's a win-win.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:12 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Does Donald Trump know who the president is?
When Donald Trump said he might not accept the results of the election, we should have believed him. Now here we are, eight thousand years into his presidency, and he is still telling us about what an awful job Hillary Clinton is doing. (Do you want to break the news to him, or shall I?)

Why, Donald Trump wonders, are we wasting all this time looking into the election of Donald Trump, a man who did not even win a majority of the popular vote, when Hillary Clinton is there, amassing scandal after scandal, safe from her perch in the Oval Office?

Everything that Donald Trump does makes sense when you know that Hillary Clinton is president. He has plenty of time on his hands since he does not have to lead. He can tweet and put his head together with Sean Hannity’s head and study controversies. This is also why Donald Trump has been suggesting such strange things when it comes to policy. Who cares? What impact can it possibly have?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:13 PM on July 10, 2017 [64 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. in legal danger for Russia meeting about Clinton dirt

GOP and Democratic campaign operatives also refute idea that such a meeting was normal practice during an election. (Darren Samuelsohn / Politico)
Donald Trump Jr. is in a legal danger zone following his acknowledgment that he met during the heat of the 2016 presidential campaign with a Russian lawyer with Kremlin ties who offered to deliver damaging information about Hillary Clinton.

Democratic and Republican lawyers and political operatives alike say explanations about the June 2016 meeting from President Donald Trump’s oldest son are way out of step with common campaign practices when dealing with offers for opposition research.

But perhaps far more important, his statements put him potentially in legal cross hairs for violating federal criminal statutes prohibiting solicitation or acceptance of anything of value from a foreign national, as well as a conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Politically, by discussing such a sensitive topic that could prove embarrassing if revealed, Trump Jr. and the other Trump campaign officials in the room for the meeting with Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya, including Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort, may have also exposed themselves to future blackmail threats, the legal experts said.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:14 PM on July 10, 2017 [25 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. in legal danger for Russia meeting about Clinton dirt

Uh huh. I've been reading this story since the election: "[So-and-so] in legal danger about [probably illegal thing]." Could the media stop stating the obvious, please?
posted by Melismata at 1:17 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Republican Party can fulfill its promise to "repeal and replace Obamacare" by repealing it and replacing it with exactly the same bill. This will also allow them to continue railing against Obamacare. It's a win-win.

It was originally a Republican policy platform so this seems only fair.
posted by Talez at 1:19 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Hadley Freeman, Guardian: Is Paul Ryan scared of shoulders? The Republican dress code is straight out of The Handmaid’s Tale
So you may have thought that the Republicans were doing quite enough to make American women’s lives completely miserable just in their healthcare bill, what with defunding Planned Parenthood for one year, putting coverage for silly niche things such as post-partum depression (which affects one in nine women) in jeopardy and potentially making pregnancy a pre-existing condition. That specific pre-existing condition will now cost 425% more under this healthcare bill. Happy Mother’s Day, United States!

Well, we should never underestimate the Republicans’ multitasking abilities when it comes to treating women like sexualised chattel. So last week, on the very day the House voted on the GOP’s nasty healthcare bill, a female journalist, Haley Byrd, was kicked out of the speaker’s lobby, the area outside the House of Representatives, where journalists often do interviews, because she was wearing a sleeveless dress. Meanwhile, another female was refused entry to the speaker’s lobby because her disgusting, whoreish, irresistibly tempting shoulders were on display. In order to try to do her job, this journalist ripped pages out of her notebook and stuffed them around the armholes of her dress so as to cover her slutty upper arms, but this was still deemed “unacceptable”. Be gone with you, slattern!
Jessica Goldstein, McSweeney's: THE IVANKA TRUMP CAPITOL HILL APPROPRIATE WEAR COLLECTION
As I understand it, there’s been a bit of turmoil over the way politicians and reporters are expected to dress on Capitol Hill. As a feminist and high-level staffer in my father’s White House who is also not at all involved in politics in any way, I am tackling this problem head-on. It’s just like Mahatma Gandhi famously said: “Be the change you want to see in the dress code.”

In order to architect the ideal wardrobe for all female reporters and politicians (until Vice President Pence formally rescinds women’s reading and writing privileges), I, a woman who works, have designed a new fashion line that meets all the guidelines for appropriate attire in the political arena. It is such a pleasure to introduce to you the Ivanka Trump Capitol Hill Appropriate Wear Collection.

First up is the Ivanka Trump Real News Shift. This stunning, sleeveless dress hits just above the knee and is so versatile you can wear it anywhere, except for on maternity leave. It costs $178 and comes in three amazing colors: Whisper, Demure, and Rosé. It’s linen, so, it will definitely show every drop of sweat and wrinkle as soon as you sit down. So when you’re wearing it, just work harder and stand up straighter. Crisis averted!
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:36 PM on July 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


What are you, a fucking park ranger now? Who gives a shit about the fucking marmot?
posted by Fezboy! at 1:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


When the campaign released it, Coulter, without disclosing her role, tweeted that it was “the greatest political document since the Magna Carta.”

Seriously, sometimes I suspect Andy Kaufman is still alive and Ann Coulter is his greatest prank ever.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:44 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo remembers Trump's Razor and acknowledges that the five "White House advisers" who leaked the Donald Trump Jr story might simply be trying to undermine Donald Trump Jr.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:46 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


He does have an awfully underminable face.
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:48 PM on July 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


All I'm saying is that Donald Jr should probably not accept any boat rides.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


Every time I read something about how the Republicans are going to "release" their health care bill it brings to mind the guy with the vials at the end of 12 Monkeys.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:57 PM on July 10, 2017 [18 favorites]


Hadas Gold, Politico: Sinclair Broadcasting increases 'must-run' Boris Epshteyn segments

Epshteyn was hired by Sinclair as chief political analyst in April after a short ride in the White House overseeing the choice of Trump surrogates for TV appearances. Now, on Sinclair, he is offering his own political commentary.

His "Bottom Line with Boris" segments already air three times a week, but will now triple in frequency


[Epshteyning intensifies]
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:03 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


Marcy Wheeler (emptywheel): Be careful how you define collusion: on the Veselnitskaya bombshell and the Steele dossier
But thus far, it is not evidence of collusion, contrary to what a lot of people are saying.

That’s true, most obviously, because we only have the implicit offer of a quid pro quo: dirt on Hillary — the source of which is unknown — in exchange for sanctions relief. We don’t (yet) have evidence that Don Jr and his co-conspirators acted on that quid pro quo.

But it’s also true because if that’s the standard for collusion, then Hillary’s campaign is in trouble for doing the same.

Remember: A supporter of Hillary Clinton paid an opposition research firm, Fusion GPS, to hire a British spy who in turn paid money to Russians — including people even closer to the Kremlin than Veselnitskaya — for Russia-related dirt on Don Jr’s dad.

Yes, the Clinton campaign was full of adults, and so kept their Russian-paying oppo research far better removed from the key players on the campaign than Trump’s campaign, which was run by incompetents. But if obtaining dirt from Russians — even paying Russians to obtain dirt — is collusion, then a whole bunch of people colluded with Russians (and a bunch of other foreign entities, I’m sure), including whatever Republican originally paid Fusion for dirt on Trump.
I'm not sure how to square the highlighted bits: Republican primary campaigners paid Steele/Fusion for that bit of research, and it eventually leaked. Do we know that a Clinton campaign supporter also paid Steele/Fusion for follow up research?

*googles some more*

I guess we do: WaPo: FBI once planned to pay former British spy who authored controversial Trump dossier
At the time of the October agreement, FBI officials probing Russian activities, including possible contacts between Trump associates and Russian entities, were aware of the information that Steele had been gathering while working for a Washington research firm hired by supporters of Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, according to the people familiar with the agreement. The firm was due to stop paying Steele as Election Day approached, but Steele felt his work was not done, these people said.
posted by notyou at 2:19 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


You have more faith than me. I suspect by then President Mike Pence will benefit from a media obsessed with how we will Heal The Country, because after all Both Sides Do It.

This has come up at some point in these threads but it doesn't matter who the president is if Trump or any of his associates are charged with STATE crimes.

As the head executive of the United States, the President can pardon people for crimes against the United States. Pardons for crimes committed against the STATE are the sole purview of that state's top executive.

In other words, Presidents can only pardon people for Federal crimes, only the governor of New York state can pardon people for breaking the laws of New York state.

President Pence will be able to do jack shit...legally.
posted by VTX at 2:22 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Latest Trump-Russia Story Has The Makings Of A Blockbuster (Perry Bacon Jr. / FiveThirtyEight)
We don’t cover every Trump-Russia story here at FiveThirtyEight. Some of them can be repetitive, such as the many iterations of the now-familiar narrative around the controversial work that President Trump’s onetime campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, did in Ukraine. Others are heavily reliant on unnamed sources or make vague claims, which means they’re complicated to understand and hard to verify.

But The New York Times’s weekend story, which details Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting last June with a Russian lawyer from whom he hoped to receive negative information about Hillary Clinton, is significant. It has the potential to stick to the president for three reasons:

First, this meeting involved President Trump’s inner circle. ... Secondly, Trump Jr.’s reason for being at the meeting is at the core of the Russia controversy: He was hoping to undermine Clinton. ... Third, the story is well-sourced and includes support from on-the-record sources.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [20 favorites]


Foreign Policy: Trump’s Trolls Are Waging War on America’s Civil Servants: "Alt-right bloggers are singling out government employees deemed hostile to the president’s agenda."
Career civil servants often endure stressful working conditions, but in the Trump White House, some of them face online trolling from alt-right bloggers who seek to portray them as clandestine partisans plotting to sabotage the president’s agenda. The online attacks often cite information that appears to be provided by unnamed White House officials or Trump loyalists.

The trend has unnerved the career intelligence analysts, diplomats, security experts, and military officers who are accustomed to operating outside the political arena. Coupled with White House talking points accusing government employees of jeopardizing the country’s security through leaks to the media, the online abuse threatens to damage morale and politicize institutions long seen as impartial and above partisan combat.
...
In response to questions about some of his statements that have proven false, and whether he allows people to respond to his allegations, Cernovich responded by saying: “You are a spokeswoman for globalist warmongers. You are the mouthpiece of death and destruction. Your fraudulent hit piece on me validates the strength of my work.”
Margaret Sullivan writes on a Pew study about how Americans see the press: Are Americans moved by Trump’s media-as-enemy war cry? The opposite may be true:
Amy Mitchell, Pew’s director of journalism research, said the growing partisan divide in attitudes about the news media mirrors a Pew study done earlier this year in which Democrats showed a growing appreciation of the press’s watchdog role; but appreciation for that role plummeted among Republicans.

If journalism is to do its job fully, and as the founders intended, it can’t speak primarily to one side of the political aisle.

I don’t have the answers to that problem, though I’m planning to explore them in the coming weeks.

In the meantime, it’s important to acknowledge what this report doesn’t show: That Trump’s traitorous-media-scum message is moving the needle as he intends.

And that — although in a grasping-at-straws way — is good news.
posted by zachlipton at 2:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


And from the how fucking dumb do you have to be department, Home Depot Brought A Wall To Ruido Fest, & It Did Not Go Over Well. You could probably claim dumbfuckery if not for Bernie Marcus's Trump support.
posted by Talez at 2:37 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


who seek to portray them as clandestine partisans plotting to sabotage the president’s agenda

Perhaps they can tell me what the president's agenda is, because I sure don't know.
posted by Melismata at 2:39 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


A supporter of Hillary Clinton paid an opposition research firm, Fusion GPS, to hire a British spy who in turn paid money to Russians — including people even closer to the Kremlin than Veselnitskaya — for Russia-related dirt on Don Jr’s dad.

Nope. Because the alleged collusion isn't between Donald Jr. and Natalia Veselnitskaya. It's between the Trump campaign and Putin's government, with Donald Jr. and Veselnitskaya acting as agents of the two entities.

"Collusion" implies a relationship between equals or near equals who are working toward a common goal. There is no such relationship between the Clinton campaign and Steele's sources, who were presumably not acting as agents of their government in talking to Steele (as Veselnitskaya apparently was.)

Putin didn't want Clinton to win. He wanted Trump to win.

By the way, David Corn of Mother Jones has some more details on the relationship between Trump and the Agalarovs, and how this meeting came to happen: How a Music Publicist Connected Trump’s Inner Circle to a Russian Lawyer Peddling Clinton Dirt.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:46 PM on July 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


"Eat Shit and Live"

Worst Cheap Trick album ever.
posted by petebest at 2:49 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Having read Macron's full statement, it seems like apart from the problematic word "civilizational" which for all I know has a different connotation in French doesn't seem particularly problematic?
posted by Justinian at 3:05 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


"Eat Shit and Live"

Worst Cheap Trick album ever.


Also the name of a quickly failed fecal transplant startup
posted by Existential Dread at 3:07 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Old Man Makes Entire World Watch Vacation Slideshow
President Donald J. Trump astounded the world again on Sunday, revealing that, in addition to mastering trade policy, real estate, and golf, he is also a visionary filmmaker. Eschewing Hollyweird traditions of trailers and trailers for trailers, the auteur in chief released his masterpiece directly to the people, 100 percent free. So crank the volume, because this film should be played LOUD.

Wow. While Trump has always worn his influences on his sleeve—D.W. Griffith, Leni Riefenstahl, Veit Harlan, the list pretty much ends there—his latest work exceeds them all from Frame 1. Has any single image captured the modern condition of despair better than Trump’s opening shot?

A still photo of the president of the United States angrily explaining something to his wife, who is not paying attention, badly compressed so that it looks pixelated beyond belief, with audio that has been carefully miscued to allow a full second of sheet-music rustle before the brass comes in: David Lynch couldn’t fit that much unease on screen if you gave him two TV shows and a feature film.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:07 PM on July 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. has hired New York lawyer Alan Futerfas to represent him in ongoing investigations regarding his father Donald Trump and his potential ties to Russia, according to Reuters. Futerfas, a criminal defense lawyer, has had experience in the past representing members of organized crime mobs, particularly the Gambino, Genovese, and Colombo families.
posted by adamvasco at 3:09 PM on July 10, 2017 [31 favorites]


FBI: Dillinger is a bank robber.
Trump: I'd better go ask Dillinger.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 3:13 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


Re: The college thing. I do somewhat understand where a working class resentment comes from. My husband did not go to college because he had no family encouragement or financial support to do so. He went directly into the workforce and started supporting himself at 18, because that's what his parents expected.

Over the 20 years we've been together, I've seen his employment prospects dwindle. In the 90s he could get a variety of office jobs with no degree. Now? Job requirements are ridiculous. A receptionist position making $10/hour calls for a bachelor's degree. That's stupid. But in an economy where jobs are a commodity and applicants are numerous, asking for a degree is really a way to filter employees by class.

Certainly there are lots of fields where a degree is important. I needed my degree in all the jobs I worked, though college didn't actually prepare me for any of them. But making undergraduate college a basic entry point to anything but manual labor jobs is a problem, and something that breeds resentment. At least as long as college is unaffordable and unavailable to so many.
posted by threeturtles at 3:17 PM on July 10, 2017 [37 favorites]


MOB DEEP. Come on, Daily News headline writers, don't let me down.
posted by emelenjr at 3:18 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


But making undergraduate college a basic entry point to anything but manual labor jobs is a problem, and something that breeds resentment. At least as long as college is unaffordable and unavailable to so many.

This is also where Republican plans to cut Social Security and/or raise the retirement age become extra pernicious. They want to shut out entire generations of people from college and the non-manual job market, while on the other end making them work longer in hard labor jobs to recieve less and less certain retirements. It's damn hard to be a plumber or roofer or even a truck driver till age 67, much less higher. Even the strongest bodies break down more like 50-55.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:31 PM on July 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


President Pence will be able to do jack shit...legally.

I didn't mean Pence would do anything formal. I meant the political climate will shift to "let's move on" and because we would be moving on from a Republican scandal the media will concur and state prosecutors won't do anything.
posted by spitbull at 3:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


WaPo: Overseas students would face close scrutiny under proposal floated at DHS
Senior officials at the Department of Homeland Security are floating a proposal that would require foreign students to reapply for permission to stay in the United States every year, a controversial move that would create new costs and paperwork for thousands of visa holders from China, India and other nations, according to two federal officials with direct knowledge of the discussions.

Officials caution that the plan is in the preliminary stages and would require regulatory changes that could take a minimum of 18 months. The plan may also require agreement from the State Department, which issues visas. The officials say the proposal seeks to enhance national security by more closely monitoring the students.
This is so idiotic.
posted by zachlipton at 3:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [18 favorites]


Sorta in line with the broader attack on higher ed, tho:
Foreign students make up 5 percent of the 20 million students attending colleges and universities across the United States. Universities are increasingly courting such students because they add diversity and boost school coffers by paying full tuition. Foreign students added more than $35 billion to the U.S. economy in 2015, according to IIE.
and...
California has the highest number of foreign students, more than 200,000, followed by New York and Texas, according to ICE. Other states with significant numbers include Massachusetts and Illinois. New York University has the largest number of foreign students, followed by the University of Southern California.
During my brief stint as an adjunct in the CSU system, there was a fair amount of pressure from the department to accommodate the needs of international students, since we, uhh, all understand the importance of their contribution to the student body.
posted by notyou at 3:44 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Tough on foreigners and academics. You can see why Trumpistas would go for it.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:48 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


California has the highest number of foreign students, more than 200,000, followed by New York and Texas, according to ICE. Other states with significant numbers include Massachusetts and Illinois.
In sheer numbers, that's definitely true, but I don't think it tells the whole story. My sense is that a lot of smaller, less-prestigious, less-desirable public universities are really relying on international student money, even though they have lower numbers overall. Schools in New York, Texas and California are going to have a much easier time attracting full-tuition-paying out-of-state domestic students than, say, South Dakota State is, so South Dakota State may feel the pinch more if they lose all their international students, even though there are only about 350 incoming international undergrads at South Dakota State every year.

Having said that, my institution has seen a really significant drop in incoming international undergrads this year. There are some school-specific factors, but it's also that students seem to be choosing not to study in the US. I don't know that the Trump administration needs to mess with visas in order to dissuade international students from studying in the US.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


All of this is a campaign to get non-white folks out of America, I suspect. Between getting ICE after just literally anyone, and "discouraging" foreign students and their money from coming here...
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:10 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


.....getting non-white folks out of America.....
A well-known coffee farmer in Hawaii who had fought his deportation to Mexico said goodbye to his wife and three US-born children Friday, ahead of a final removal order.
A Farmer Who Lived In The US For Nearly 30 Years Has Lost His Long Battle Against Deportation.
posted by adamvasco at 4:17 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]




I don't know that the Trump administration needs to mess with visas in order to dissuade international students from studying in the US.

No one in that entire administration has a single fucking clue about soft power. Educating foreign nationals and sending them back home does more to further US interests abroad than a dozen military bases. And they PAY US FOR IT!

You'd think that, given how concerned they are about trade deficits, they'd at least appreciate taking millions of dollars from foreigners to US based institutions. Same with tourism.

But they don't, because they're a bunch of complete incompetents.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:28 PM on July 10, 2017 [65 favorites]


Moneywise they don't give a shit about any single dollar that isn't going into their own pockets.
posted by Artw at 4:31 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's not incompetence. It's deliberate. We should assume malevolence. They have lost all good will, even the benefit of assuming they are more incompetent than evil. In the white power Republican mindset, foreigners come to the US and take jobs, then vote Democrat. College students vote Democrat. College professors are liberal indoctrinators that take good white kids and turn them into Democrats. Discouraging immigration, not just "illegal" immigration, but all immigration, period. is deliberate. It's both fulfilling a cultural promise to their racist base, and an intentional strategy to maintain power by attacking and literally expelling Democratic leaning constituencies from the country.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:44 PM on July 10, 2017 [25 favorites]


Moneywise they don't give a shit about any single dollar that isn't going into their own pockets.

Oh, but they do. See tax cuts for the wealthy - they're VERY interested in dollars they aren't currently trousering.
posted by Devonian at 4:57 PM on July 10, 2017


I mostly deal with international undergrads, and honestly, very few of them stay in the US. Many of them would like to stay in the US after they graduate, but it's really tricky to get a visa. But a lot of domestic students really resent international students, for complicated reasons that include both racism and some fairly stark class differences, and I think that the idea of having fewer international students would play pretty well to a segment of students and parents at Midwestern public universities, even though those international students are definitely subsidizing in-state tuition.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


Catching up:

Trump is forced to either sign the bill, which would make it impossible to establish a broader cooperative relationship with Putin, or veto the bill and risk a two-thirds majority in Congress overriding his wishes.

Or sign the bill, then do whatever he wants anyway. What, is someone going to do something about it? That's pretty much the question for everything now. "Sure, it's illegal. Fuck you. Are you going to do something or not?" The public posturing and dissembling is just to camouflage it longer, but that's what the deal is.

Secondly, I agree that critical thinking skills are good, but who cares if you're entering numbers into a spreadsheet? Your middle manager boss does not.

This middle manager boss does. Spreadsheet-enterers eventually become managers. Some of those people are my replacement or even more importantly, possibly my peers, for some value of rapid promotion. OJT is a thing, and a good thing (hell, I don't have a degree, but spent 20 years in this field in the military to get comparable skills) but not all there is.

Every time I read something about how the Republicans are going to "release" their health care bill it brings to mind the guy with the vials at the end of 12 Monkeys.

I laugh at that the same way I laugh when some celebrity "releases a new fragrance." hee hee!
posted by ctmf at 5:30 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Not to go back to Ivanka sitting in at the G20 meeting again but this tidbit from Foreign Policy is somehow not surprising:
The White House, in response to repeated requests from Foreign Policy, has refused to release a list of people who have access to the President’s Daily Brief—the list itself would be unclassified. One source familiar with the situation in the West Wing described the daily briefs as a free for all, with visitors like Ivanka Trump wandering in during the run-down.
posted by peeedro at 5:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


I do somewhat understand where a working class resentment comes from.

there's another source, too - back in the day, the more ambitious, together, or ass-kissing people on the shop floor had the prospect of getting up the ladder and supervising without having to get college degrees - experience was good enough

at some time in the last 40 years, it gradually became a rule that you had to have a college degree to be in management - it didn't matter necessarily what kind of college degree and lack of practical experience wasn't a barrier

so we now have a situation where college educated people who don't understand the process or how to fix problems are ignoring people who actually know what they're talking about - or worse, listening to people who have ulterior motives in giving advice

all of this fosters the belief that people that go to college are know nothings who are handed a status over them they don't deserve and don't demonstrate competence as they use it
posted by pyramid termite at 5:54 PM on July 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


At some point the Trump administration is going to have to apply for visas so they can bring in foreign lawyers because they will either run out of domestic ones or drive their prices up to the point where they can no longer afford them.

Peak lawyer looms.
posted by srboisvert at 5:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'd imagine stories of various younger relations graduating with a ton of debt and then not being able get a job good enough to afford that debt fuel some animus towards college.
posted by VTX at 6:03 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's scoop o'clock!

The New York Times: Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald J. Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

but his emails
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:14 PM on July 10, 2017 [85 favorites]


Guess I'll ask it first: who wrote the email
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:17 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


Rob Goldstone wrote the email to explain the meeting.
posted by pjenks at 6:19 PM on July 10, 2017


Me (yelling from my study): Hey, guess what? It's Russia O'Clock again!

My gf (yelling from the living room): For fuck's sake, what now?

Today's rendition of a sometimes-more-than-once-daily-event at Chez Scaryblackdeath has been brought to you by the NYT.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:20 PM on July 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


Boom.
posted by Dashy at 6:21 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Boy I sure wish someone had warned us that Russia was messing with the election. If only. Why didn't anyone say anything? Someone should have said something.
posted by 0xFCAF at 6:22 PM on July 10, 2017 [37 favorites]


Surely fucking this.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:22 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


Is this treason? It sounds like treason.
posted by dilaudid at 6:22 PM on July 10, 2017 [25 favorites]


God these people are idiots. I like that there's three sources with knowledge of the email. Three! Three people who might be but probably aren't named Trump, Kushner or Manafort that Don Jr. was like, hey, let me tell you about this email I got from Russian spies promising me some intel to help get daddy elected! Pass the ketchup!
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:22 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


Secondly, I agree that critical thinking skills are good, but who cares if you're entering numbers into a spreadsheet? Your middle manager boss does not.

The only middle managers I've known who *didn't* want their employees to have this skill were the ones who didn't have it and didn't want to be shown up. In general, hells yes, they want thinking people thinking, no matter the job.
posted by greermahoney at 6:23 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


The collusion with Russia goes to the very top of their family organization, mark my words. No way did the illegitimate occupier of the Oval Office not know that the Russia government were specifically trying to help his campaign.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 6:23 PM on July 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


Don Trump Jr is fucked.
posted by Justinian at 6:24 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


Today's analysis by Greg Sargent was notably prescient:
[KellyAnn Conway's] spin echoed key elements of a careful statement from Trump Jr. that was issued as the Times story was coming together. That statement allowed that Trump Jr. and the others had met with “an individual who I was told might have information helpful to the campaign” but that he “was not told her name prior to the meeting.” Trump Jr. added that it “quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information” and that she changed the subject to other topics.

Conway, pressed on the fact that Trump Jr. had held this meeting with the express purpose of getting damaging information about Clinton, admitted that “he was told that there would be information that may be helpful to the campaign,” but added that “he didn’t even know her name.” The careful focus on the fact that he didn’t know her name — both Trump Jr. and Conway put it that way — is notable.

But beyond this, the broader question of whether Trump Jr., Kushner and Manfort understood the general identity of the person they were meeting with in order to receive damaging information about Clinton will likely now be subject to intense scrutiny.
posted by pjenks at 6:26 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


When I told that Djinn I "wanted to see Donald Trump in jail" I should probably have been more specific, but I'll take it.
posted by Freon at 6:26 PM on July 10, 2017 [70 favorites]


Lol oh shit Don Jr. reply-alled when he should have just replied, didn't he?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:27 PM on July 10, 2017 [16 favorites]




can we get an impeachment yet in this mofo? lord have mercy
posted by dis_integration at 6:31 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


The proffered information was Clinton's hacked emails, right? So when 45 said last October that 'her emails will be bigger than Watergate', he was being startlingly prescient?
posted by Devonian at 6:38 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald J. Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.

Breaking my election thread fast for the schadenfreude.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:39 PM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


You really have to applaud Trump Jr's naïvety. He's like a guy that just found out buying stolen goods is illegal.

Day 1: I bought these bike parts from a totally legitimate dealer
Day 2: Yes, of course, the bike parts were from Sketchy Pete the Bike Thief
Day 3: Clearly Sketchy Pete's bike parts are stolen goods, that's why they're cheap
(lawyer meeting occurs)
Day 4: I never bought any bike parts, and my meeting with Sketchy Pete was about adoption
posted by 0xFCAF at 6:41 PM on July 10, 2017 [58 favorites]


BUT THE EMAILS!!!
posted by octobersurprise at 6:41 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


It only just occurred to me, that the content of Veselnitskaya's message to Donald Trump Jr --- outlined in his own statement last night and reiterated in tonight's NYTimes article when describing Agalarov's contact with Goldstone:
“He said, ‘I’m told she has information about illegal campaign contributions to the D.N.C.,’” Goldstone recalled, referring to the Democratic National Committee. He said he then emailed Don Jr., outlining what the lawyer purported to have.
--- precisely matches the first thing to come out of the DNC hack: donor records to the DNC (published six days later by Guccifer 2.0, along with an oppo file on Trump).

I don't recall any information about "Russian donors" coming out of that hacked material, but the phrase "individuals connected to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee" came from DJT Jr's statement. The above statement is simply about "illegal campaign contributions" more generally.
posted by pjenks at 6:42 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


God damn it, Don Jr., you done broke Chris Hayes.
HE PUT A DESCRIPTION OF THE CONSPIRACY IN AN EMAIL !!! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
posted by tonycpsu at 6:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [38 favorites]




Lol oh shit Don Jr. reply-alled when he should have just replied, didn't he?

The phrase "free bananas in the break room" just took on a whole new level of greatness.

Meanwhile, on the topic of Don Jr. Is Fucked, Jared Kushner also attended this meeting that was clearly overtly about a conspiracy to collude. Then six months later he tried to set up a clandestine channel to Russia. I submit that he, too, is fucked. I wonder a) which of the two will manage to sell the other one out in a deal fastest and b) which one Big Don is going to side with. There is not enough popcorn in the entire Midwest for this, people.

Also, every time someone says "adoption," substitute "sanctions" (and drink a shot) since that's what that actually means. Man, I hesitate to say the Two Words so as not to whammy things (TTTCS), but I'm teetering.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:48 PM on July 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


BUT THE EMAILS!!!
(But his emails!)

Not to pick on you, octobersurprise, but these turns of the phrase really do fall flat .... and in failing to hit home, only remind us of the most pertinent word of the three.

Her.

It never was about the emails.
posted by Dashy at 6:48 PM on July 10, 2017 [26 favorites]



I have to wonder if the Intel peeps who are finding all this stuff are having the same sorts of reactions as Chris Hayes. I can imagine people at desk regularly going 'wtf, no really? He/she can't have done this. Hey y'all check this lastest thing I found. Unbelievable.' Although maybe they're used to criminal shady types doing dumb things.

I mean they probably don't do this and likely know just how bad it is and it's sobering but it does make me smile imagining it like that because.. WTF is wrong with these people, they seem to be SO DUMB and oblivious. (rhetorical question)
posted by Jalliah at 6:52 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Jr. just isn't very bright, is he?
posted by octothorpe at 6:52 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Don Trump Jr is fucked.

No one's fucked until there are criminal charges (or an impeachment). Sure, these fuckers have done tons of stuff that should've finished them. (Why the fuck is the attorney general still in office after perjuring himself in his confirmation hearing, for example?)

The bar for being fucked has been raised really, really high. Used to be you were fucked if you had an affair, had an affair and got your mistress pregnant, or were improperly miked at a rally.

Now you can cheat on your wife, divorce her and marry your mistress, cheat on your second wife, divorce her and marry your mistress, then marry her and be elected president of the United States.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:54 PM on July 10, 2017 [33 favorites]


@jonathanvswan
Source close to White House texts me this AM; "Pepe Nation on high alert. Today's mission: Operation We Got Don Jr.'s Back." 🐸🐸🐸


14 hours later...

kingarthur_runaway.gif
posted by Devonian at 6:54 PM on July 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


I mean this has to be part of Mueller's work right?

Day 1 NYT: There was a meeting with Russian lawyers
Mueller: Let him talk.
Fredo: It was about adoption!
Day 2 NYT: It was about campaign dirt.
Mueller: Let him talk.
Fredo: Ok, it was campaign dirt, but I didnt get any! And everyone does it, I had to take that meeting!
Day 3 NYT: He knew the whole time it was campaign dirt and talked about going to receive it
Mueller: Let him talk.
Fredo Tomorrow: Well, everyone does it right? And we didnt get any dirt? Please believe me?
Day ?? NYT: They got it, and used it.
Mueller: Gotcha, bitch.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:54 PM on July 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


The above statement is simply about "illegal campaign contributions" more generally.

Hey, remember during the campaign when Trump's people were constantly sending donation solicitation emails to like every single person on the Trump Organization's contacts list, whether they were U.S.citizens or not (and how frequently they were definitely and famously not)?

Yeah, good times. Good times.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


so there's a bunch of stories in the reddit trump forum pushing "who murdered seth rich?!!?!?1/!" as the talking point of the day. which is a good sign, since generally the bots on that subreddit only push seth rich headlines when things look particularly bad for trump/russia.

ugh I hate that I live in a universe where that paragraph is sane.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [51 favorites]


I have to wonder if the Intel peeps who are finding all this stuff are having the same sorts of reactions as Chris Hayes. I can imagine people at desk regularly going 'wtf, no really? He/she can't have done this. Hey y'all check this lastest thing I found. Unbelievable.' Although maybe they're used to criminal shady types doing dumb things.

Most IC targets have a decent level of signals encryption and good tradecraft. Most organised crime people have a higher level of discipline and are used to the concept that they should assume they are being surveilled. This is more along the lines of the guy who does something idiotic and then brags about it at the bar.
posted by jaduncan at 6:57 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


Day 3 NYT: He knew the whole time it was campaign dirt from the motherfucking Russian government and talked about going to receive it .
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:58 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


only remind us of the most pertinent word of the three. Her.

Indeed ...
posted by octobersurprise at 6:58 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Gah. This one is so good I'm actually worried now it'll turn out to be one more piece of bullshit planted by the Trump regime in order to make the media look bad.

Dear NYT: Please tell me you really did nail this one down. Three sources sounds pretty solid, but compared to some of the other bombshells that have dropped with like 20 sources cited by WaPo I get nervous with a "mere" three these days.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm completely jaded, you guys, because I'm like "yeah, the entire Trump family/ administration is corrupt and criminal and quite possibly treasonous and too lazy and entitled to even cover it up. We knew that. Nothing to see here. I'm going to bed. Wake me up if there are indictments, because nothing else is interesting to me at this point."
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [29 favorites]


"PART OF." Process that. "Part of." (Rick Wilson's tweet) -- "Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy" (emphasis mine). I can't figure out if the email informed Donald Jr. that this was simply one part, so that Donald Jr. knew that the Russian government had other parts to their efforts. Did he know what the other parts were? Do we know what the other parts were and if they're still happening?
posted by gladly at 6:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


I feel like I can't even focus on the corruption because I am so distracted by how unbelievably amateur and stupid these people are. How many own-goals can you fucking make here?
posted by gatorae at 7:03 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


@poniewozik
The most amazing thing about this whole story is the HBO movie will begin at the 2013 Miss Universe pageant
posted by chris24 at 7:07 PM on July 10, 2017 [41 favorites]


The bar for being fucked has been raised really, really high. Used to be you were fucked if you had an affair, had an affair and got your mistress pregnant, or were improperly miked at a rally.

The brief moment where I misread that as 'improperly milked' whist clicking the link was strange but intriguing.
posted by jaduncan at 7:09 PM on July 10, 2017 [37 favorites]


Kushner and Manafort were at this same meeting. Manafort was the campaign manager at the time. This is the smoking gun. The entire campaign knew. The only person not yet directly implicated is Trump himself.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 PM on July 10, 2017 [35 favorites]


don jr. is the one who, according to some election-era news story I don't have at my fingertips but somebody around here definitely does, hated his dad and his dad's legacy and his own name to such a degree in his college years that college acquaintances told horrifying stories about it and his dad's reciprocal public contempt to whatever publication it was, 20 years later. some guy still remembered DTjr's alarming alcohol consumption and told a story of him being so drunk he pissed the bed [ironically, perhaps the one act of his wasted youth that his dad might have wholeheartedly approved of, had he known, but DTjr. probably did not know that about his dad until the rest of the world found out. ]

anyway, I am temporarily abandoning my fantasy of Tiffany working to bring down her dad in favor of my new theory that little(r) Donald is the one crafting this house of corruption but all in order to get his dad impeached, from the very beginning. you may say, oh, but he is far too stupid! and I say in response, sure he's dumb, but this doesn't take smarts. you just straight up engage in a criminal conspiracy to help your dad, knowing he'll be completely in favor of it and making barely any effort to hide it, and wait to get caught.

if that was Other Brother I am remembering the story about, never mind. but I don't think it was.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:12 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Anyone have a source on the Abramson claim that Trump was present in Trump Tower during the meeting? I have not seen that reported by a credible source.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:12 PM on July 10, 2017


I don't think DJTJr. takes a piss without his dad making sure he didn't fuck it up.
posted by gatorae at 7:12 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


I wonder who has the email. From the article, it is clear that its author, Rob Goldstone, is not the source, and that he is instead trying to help spin for the Trumps:
Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy

[...]

Mr. Goldstone’s message, as described to The New York Times by the three people, indicates that the Russian government was the source of the potentially damaging information.

[...]

But Mr. Goldstone, who wrote the email over a year ago, denied any knowledge of involvement by the Russian government in the matter, saying that never dawned on him. “Never, never ever,” he said. Later, after the email was described to The Times, efforts to reach him for further comment were unsuccessful.

[...]

Mr. Goldstone also said his recollection of the meeting largely tracked with the account given by the president’s son ... but he added that he did speak to the Trump Organization over the past weekend, before giving his account to the news media.
posted by pjenks at 7:17 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


That was the day that Hillary tweeted 'Delete your account'.

And Trump was at his office in Trump Tower with Manafort and Kushner for at least part of the day. And of course since he hones in on the last thing he hears he started tweeting about 'her emails'.

Seth Abramson has a tweet thread laying it all out.
posted by readery at 7:18 PM on July 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


Did Seth Rogan write this shit? This really feels like a Seth Rogan movie.
posted by srboisvert at 7:19 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


god damn that was fast. though it is a memorable story for sure. & I assume the drinking wasn't just to blot out the misery and degradation of being a Trump, but also to spite his father because of the dead uncle thing. it's like he hated his dad so much he wanted to deface and destroy Trump's firstborn son, and just happened to be in a position to make that happen by using his own body as a canvas.

whatever happened to him to make him change his ways and fall in line must have been unspeakable. a regular old threat of obedience or no more money would explain the public appearances but not the awful Twitter awfulness. unless, of course, I am correct that he is being awful on purpose and this is just the slightly more grown-up version of getting plastered and pissing himself.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:21 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


This is Seth Rogan in collaboration with the Coen Brothers with some David Lynch in the mix.
posted by nubs at 7:22 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'm imagining the day we find the 4 of them, exhausted, ragged, and terrified, cowering in a dirt hole like Saddam Hussein.

And someday we're going to find out what McConnell knew and hid.
posted by ctmf at 7:23 PM on July 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


Tomorrow in the NYT: Eric Trump hired a sky-writer to enscribe "PLEASE COLLUDE WITH ME" above the Kremlin, but he spelled it "KALOOD"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:23 PM on July 10, 2017 [40 favorites]


i just can't get too excited; i remember waiting for fitzmas. big. fat. goose egg.
posted by j_curiouser at 7:25 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Lawrence O'Donnell just cracked up his whole panel by replaying for them this lovely Don Jr. CNN interview, from a month after his first treason conspiracy meeting, in which he shared his outrage at Robbie Mook for suggesting the Russians were working with Trump.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:25 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


I just love the fact that the President tweets about anything and everything that's on his mind or on cable news, but can't manage a single 140 characters to defend his dumbass son.
posted by zachlipton at 7:26 PM on July 10, 2017 [39 favorites]


I feel like I can't even focus on the corruption because I am so distracted by how unbelievably amateur and stupid these people are. How many own-goals can you fucking make here?

I am waiting for one or more investigation teams to subpoena any and all email servers vaguely connected to this. The particular irony is that the FBI's CI agents are being slightly professionally insulted by every Trump person involved; this level of self-incrimination would give a rural Sheriff's office an easy case.
posted by jaduncan at 7:27 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


hey remember that time i tried to stop this

i remember that time. i remember that time every goddamn day
posted by dogheart at 7:28 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


I just love the fact that the President tweets about anything and everything that's on his mind or on cable news, but can't manage a single 140 characters to defend his dumbass son.

And indeed spent most of the morning defending Ivanka instead. Story of Jr.'s life!
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:28 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Political Wire: House Freedom Caucus chairman Mark Meadows (R-NC) told Brietbart that the federal spending bill — which needs to be passed by the end of September — must fund the construction of President Trump’s border wall or else there will be a government shutdown.

I'm not going to directly link to fucking Brietbart, sorry.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:29 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Political Wire: House Freedom Caucus chairman Mark Meadows (R-NC) told Brietbart that the federal spending bill — which needs to be passed by the end of September — must fund the construction of President Trump’s border wall or else there will be a government shutdown.

Feel the fiscal conservatism!
posted by jaduncan at 7:30 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mark Meadows (R-NC) told Brietbart

And right on cue, when some more Russia heat drops... The assigned Outrage Of The Day instigator is on the case. Look at me! Look at me!

Tomorrow I'm starting a stopwatch.
posted by ctmf at 7:34 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Rodeo clown for the press. They probably all have to sign up for a day.
posted by ctmf at 7:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm gonna start writing a screenplay for all of this so I can retire in a year.
posted by gucci mane at 7:36 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Erik Wemple: WHCA President Jeff Mason: Trump White House asked me to backstab journo-peers
White House Correspondents’ Association President Jeff Mason on Monday night alleged that the White House had drafted him to criticize the work of other reporters. “There have definitely been times over the last several months where the White House has come to us — often to me specifically — asking that we or I intervene and criticize a member news organization or reporter,” said Mason at an event held at the White House Historical Association.

The topic brought to mind a specific instance: “In one case, and I won’t say the name, but in one case, I was asked to on behalf of the WHCA to release a statement criticizing a reporter’s story,” said Mason, to a wave of disbelief in the conference room. “And I said ‘No,’ because that’s not what we do and that’s not something we would ever do.”
...
On another topic, Mason was asked by an audience member about requests from news consumers that news outlets simply turn on their cameras at briefings in defiance of the White House’s rules against broadcasting proceedings. Mason responded: “Those types of decisions are going to have to be made by news organizations. It is our job to represent the journalists in this room but we do not make decisions for the news organizations that you work for. And if television networks decide to turn on the cameras, that’s their decision. If you as an individual journalist decide to pull up your iPhone and record, that is your decision.”
WaPo: Senate Democrats seek new allies in effort to scuttle Obamacare overhaul: Republican governors
Senate Democrats have identified potential new allies in their effort to scuttle the current health-care proposal: Republican governors, particularly those who helped expand Medicaid in their states under the Affordable Care Act.

Sen. Thomas R. Carper (Del.), who is leading the effort with the support of fellow Democrats, called “a couple dozen” senators and governors from both parties over the recess, he said in an interview, to say “this is a good time for us to hit the pause button in the Senate, and step back and have some good heart-to-heart conversations” about how to revise the 2010 law.
This is great. Governors know that the BCRA makes them do the dirty work of enacting Medicaid cuts and will blow massive holes in state budgets. They're not supporting this bill.
posted by zachlipton at 7:37 PM on July 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. just contradicted a whole bunch of White House denials of Russian contacts [WaPo]
Trump Jr. told the Times in March that he never met with any Russians while working in a campaign capacity.

“Did I meet with people that were Russian? I’m sure, I’m sure I did,” he said. “But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”

Upshot: We now learn that one meeting was, in fact, “set up” and that it was about the campaign.
There are many other examples on the link.
posted by jaduncan at 7:38 PM on July 10, 2017 [20 favorites]


Amazon Prime Day is offering a special on White House Lawyers but only if you use Subscribe and Save and preload your Amazon Account using your debit card.
posted by srboisvert at 7:42 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]



So we get a whole bunch of leaks/releases of info on Kushner, then some stuff on Manafort, a bit on Page and now we're onto Don Jr. Gosh it's like some people out there are methodically painting a picture for us all. And all the while they appear to be doing it in such a way that Trump and the minions have time to fumble around, come up with this or that explanation, try to set the spin and even end up giving up even more damning information. It's like whoever is doing this knows exactly what they are doing. It's utterly horrifying and fascinating to watch unfold.

I would very much like to just get to the end to know how it plays out though because it's stressful.

I do hope that Bannon gets a turn. This would make me very happy.
posted by Jalliah at 7:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [39 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. just contradicted a whole bunch of White House denials of Russian contacts

This is really the crux of it. They want us to take their word for it that they did nothing nefarious, when it's been proven that they've lied about everything from the existence of the meeting to the topic, and their story has changed on a daily basis. Why should anyone believe the 5th explanation now?
posted by zachlipton at 7:44 PM on July 10, 2017 [13 favorites]




Now is a good time to mention how enraging it is to me that so little attention has been paid, both before and after Election Day, to Trump's shifting claims on whether he has met Vladimir Putin. Repeatedly, provably lying about whether you met the President of Russia would seem to constitute by itself a disqualification for the presidency of America, but it is apparently too juvenile and asinine a lie for journalists to really sink their teeth into.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:50 PM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]



So its looks like Goldstone who wrote the email setting up the meeting actually into the Trump Organization on the day of the meeting on his Facebook. Tweet of the image

This still is real life right?
posted by Jalliah at 7:51 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]




Holy fuck, the stupid it burns.

@JoshSchwerin:
You have to love that Rob Goldstone wrote an email saying the Russian gov wants to help beat Hillary and then checked in for the meeting [screenshot of FB checkin]
posted by chris24 at 7:54 PM on July 10, 2017 [20 favorites]


must fund the construction of President Trump’s border wall or else there will be a government shutdown.

Accelerationism be damned, I'm at the point where I'd like to watch the country shut down over an imaginary wall. Do it, you fuckers, do it!
posted by octobersurprise at 7:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why does that check-in say "Indonesia"? Is it fake?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


If Priebus was there, I think that's actually news. Then it's a Republican conspiracy, not just a Trump conspiracy.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:58 PM on July 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


[real?]
posted by pjenks at 7:58 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Why does that check-in say "Indonesia"? Is it fake?

hmm. No idea. I didn't notice that. I sorta hope it's fake because if it's not then it is so beyond stupid.
posted by Jalliah at 7:59 PM on July 10, 2017


This is also a hell of a story. NYT: Trump Aides Recruited Businessmen to Devise Options for Afghanistan
President Trump’s advisers recruited two businessmen who profited from military contracting to devise alternatives to the Pentagon’s plan to send thousands of additional troops to Afghanistan, reflecting the Trump administration’s struggle to define its strategy for dealing with a war now 16 years old.

Erik D. Prince [Betsy DeVos's brother], a founder of the private security firm Blackwater Worldwide, and Stephen A. Feinberg, a billionaire financier who owns the giant military contractor DynCorp International, have discussed their proposals to rely on contractors instead of American troops in Afghanistan with both Stephen K. Bannon, Mr. Trump’s chief strategist, and Jared Kushner, his senior adviser and son-in-law, according to people briefed on the conversations.

On Saturday morning, Mr. Bannon sought out Defense Secretary Jim Mattis at the Pentagon to try to get a hearing for their ideas, an American official said. Mr. Mattis listened politely but declined to include the outside strategies in a review of Afghanistan policy that he is leading along with the national security adviser, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster.
The story goes on to point out that there are ethical problems with asking mercenary firms to weigh in on military strategy. And it just gets worse and worse the more you read on:
Mr. Feinberg, another official said, puts more emphasis than Mr. Prince on working with Afghanistan’s central government. But his strategy would also give the C.I.A. control over operations in Afghanistan, which would be carried out by paramilitary units and hence subject to less oversight than the military, according to a person briefed on it.

The strategy has been called “the Laos option,” after America’s shadowy involvement in Laos during the war in neighboring Vietnam. C.I.A. contractors trained Laotian soldiers to fight Communist insurgents and their North Vietnamese allies until 1975, leaving the country under Communist control and with a deadly legacy of unexploded bombs. In Afghanistan until now, contractors have been used mainly for security and logistics.
What we did in Laos is not normally viewed as a model for, well, anything anybody should ever do.
posted by zachlipton at 7:59 PM on July 10, 2017 [36 favorites]


If Priebus was there, I think that's actually news. Then it's a Republican conspiracy, not just a Trump conspiracy.

Sad to say, as of mid-2016, those are the same thing. They all knew. They are all culpable.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:03 PM on July 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


Except corb.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:04 PM on July 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


What about Egg? :(
posted by Justinian at 8:04 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


NYT: Trump Aides Recruited Businessmen to Devise Options for Afghanistan
That's a hell of a way to misspell "mercenaries".
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:06 PM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


Enjoy Rob Goldstone's very public facebook page now before it's morning in Athens and he finds out he's famous
posted by theodolite at 8:09 PM on July 10, 2017 [22 favorites]


I think I'd be on the first flight back to the USA if I were Rob Goldstone. I hear Europe has a polonium problem.
posted by Justinian at 8:11 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Don't worry, NYTimes reporters never sleep:
@adamgoldmanNYT: Update: I am still reporting.
(Posted 5min ago)
posted by pjenks at 8:14 PM on July 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


He's charming. He is the DJ Khaled of undermining democratic institutions.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:14 PM on July 10, 2017 [4 favorites]




NYT: Trump Aides Recruited Businessmen to Devise Options for Afghanistan

You can rearrange those phrases any way you like and they're probably no less true.
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:14 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


@ZeddRebel:
but seriously you need to get Goldstone surrounded by US Marshals and in a safe spot without his passport. Like...now.

@ZeddRebel:
Like, it needs to be made clear to him it ain't just his ties to Trump that make him a loose end.
posted by chris24 at 8:14 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Say what you will about Goldstone, he's one classy guy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:19 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Dana Milbank, WaPo: So that’s why Sarah Huckabee Sanders wants the cameras off
It’s easy to see why Sarah Huckabee Sanders wants the TV cameras off during her White House news briefings.

There is, for one, the matter of her boss constantly proclaiming things that range from the inexplicable to the patently wrong. There’s also the metastasizing Russia scandal, which keeps rendering previous Trump White House statements inoperative, as Richard Nixon press secretary Ron Ziegler used to say.

But above all is a more simple explanation: Sanders has no earthly idea what’s going on in the White House she purports to represent.

And so, at Monday’s off-camera briefing, she stood on the podium, frequently cocking her left eyebrow and raising the left corner of her lips to convey displeasure at the line of questioning. Then, as frequently, she opened her mouth and, with a heavy Arkansas twang, said a lot of nothing.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:20 PM on July 10, 2017 [14 favorites]




Is it plausible/likely that this is all part of the Russian plan? I.e., that the Russian government enticed Trumpers to commit light treason in stupidly obvious ways that were intended and expected to eventually be found out, as another way to undermine the US political system, and prevent the US from functioning effectively internationally? Presumably they knew from past experience that Trump and many people around him were corrupt in some way, so the Russians knew that they would jump at the chance of opposition intel, regardless of its legality. Or maybe I just watched too many episodes of The Americans...
posted by bakerybob at 8:31 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


before it's morning in Athens and he finds out he's famous

Think we'll get a #HasRobLandedYet from Trump?
posted by ctmf at 8:34 PM on July 10, 2017


Whatever Putin's plan was it already succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. He probably just wanted to sow as much chaos as possible to damage Clinton's ability to govern. Trump actually winning is like 1000 fucking Christmas's all day every day on top of winning the lottery 2700 times in a row. Plus, once Trump looks like he's going down, Putin still has everything from the RNC hack too, which was never released. He can run the whole thing again against Trump and the Republicans if he thinks it'll help him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:36 PM on July 10, 2017 [39 favorites]


No, no pee tape. Adam Goldman has details on Trump asking business people with conflicts of interest to create war plans for Afghanistan.

A mercenary army provided by Eric motherfucking Prince. Of course 2017 has to throw us a mercenary war c/o Academi's shithead squadron because what is this timeline without throwing everything and the kitchen sink in terms of sheer what-the-fuckness.
posted by Talez at 8:36 PM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


I have to imagine Mueller has to be a little taken aback at how this Russia thing is metastasizing. He and his team must come in to the office every day and try desperately just to keep up with all the new revelations of impropriety. Like, "Okay, what new aspect of the crime(s) did a member of the Trump entourage explicitly acknowledge today?"

I'd be like, "Slow down, dammit - I can't investigate you if you keep confessing!"
posted by darkstar at 8:40 PM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


The Hill: Collins wants Don Jr. to answer some questions for the Senate Intelligence Committee, please.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:41 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


I just can't even. Even Cheney, Dick Fucking Cheney (pun intended), had the good manners and human decency to profit from war via nation building on the side. And that man's heart is a lump of coal.
posted by Talez at 8:42 PM on July 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


No, no pee tape. Adam Goldman has details on Trump asking business people with conflicts of interest to create war plans for Afghanistan.

The byline on that story doesn't include Goldman, who is "still reporting".

In other words, it's totally the pee tape
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:43 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Is it plausible/likely that this is all part of the Russian plan?

From this New Yorker post, "What Russian journalists think of how American reporters cover Putin and Trump":

On the whole, said Mikhail Zygar, a political journalist and the author of “All the Kremlin’s Men,” a well-sourced insider look at the cloistered world of Russian politics, the way the U.S. media has covered the Russia scandal has made “Putin seem to look much smarter than he is, as if he operates from some master plan.” The truth, Zygar told me, “is that there is no plan—it’s chaos.”

I'm sort of in the "Putin took a long shot and it's working out beyond his wildest dreams" camp.
posted by Dr. Send at 8:44 PM on July 10, 2017 [29 favorites]


Pee Tape, to the tune of Cool Jerk
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:45 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


I totally missed that Adam wasn't on that byline. Maybe it IS the pee tape!>
posted by Brainy at 8:45 PM on July 10, 2017


No, no pee tape. Adam Goldman has details on Trump asking business people with conflicts of interest to create war plans for Afghanistan.

That's not his article... he's just multitasking while he "reports".

On edit: sorry! Delete away...
posted by pjenks at 8:45 PM on July 10, 2017


Trump's "This Russia Thing" Plan A: Fire FBI Director.

Trump's "This Russia Thing" Plan B: Let FBI building crumble to dust.
posted by pjenks at 8:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Putin worked to undermine Clinton because he saw Clinton as a threat to his financial and political interests and those of his allies, and rightly so. He wanted to stifle her effectiveness as a leader and undermine American influence globally. I'm sure he was just as surprised as everyone else when he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams and saw an unqualified infomercial scam-artist put in charge of the world's largest economy..
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:57 PM on July 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


an unqualified infomercial scam-artist put in charge of the world's largest economy..

Moreover, one who has undoubtedly promised to end the sanctions and do who knows what else besides.
posted by Devonian at 9:00 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Rob Goldstone character is more clown than master spy. He crows about being on some local NYC celebrity TV show with Deepak Chopra and Hillary Clinton, and he seems obsessed with fancy food, luxury travel, and handsome young men.
posted by spitbull at 9:03 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I need a scoop schedule.

Well we know Donald likes two scoops. At once.
posted by spitbull at 9:03 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump's "This Russia Thing" Plan B: Let FBI building crumble to dust.

The WaPo is covering that too, it's got this bit of understatement:
Trump has had an unusual relationship with both the GSA and the FBI. The GSA is the landlord to his D.C. hotel. Trump has also been embroiled in a high-profile dispute with the FBI over its ongoing Russia investigation, having fired director James B. Comey — who lobbied hard for a new campus — in May.
Also this glorious tidbit from a story two years ago, The FBI’s headquarters is falling apart. Why is it so hard for America to build a new one?
At $126 million, it was the most expensive federal building ever erected, a place where the public would be invited to watch agents at work at then-state-of-art crime labs and rooms would be filled with one of the largest repositories of fingerprint records in the nation. It was not necessarily a pretty building. Some architectural critics teed off on the Brutalist design before it was even fully occupied. The criticism hasn’t stopped since. A travel Web site recently dubbed the Hoover “the ugliest building in the world,” listing it seven spots ahead of Trump Tower, in New York.
posted by peeedro at 9:09 PM on July 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


The FBI HQ sounds a lot like the description of "Cockroach Central," the security HQ in the Vorkosigan Saga. Which is especially funny if you've read "Captain Vorpatril's Alliance."

"Now you can cheat on your wife, divorce her and marry your mistress, cheat on your second wife, divorce her and marry your mistress, then marry her and be elected president of the United States."

Not to mention grab pussies, consort with Russians, piss off every other country you interact with, put your children into jobs, fire the FBI director, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.... and yet no one will rid us of this meddlesome piece.

Today's dumbass Impeach-O-Meter:
"At the same time, I can't keep raising the likelihood of Trump's impeachment every time some piece of damaging news about his campaign's conduct and/or dishonesty comes out, because pretty soon the meter would be at like 700 percent. So, in the spirit of Zeno's Paradox, I am declaring a semi-arbitrary rule that the meter can't go over 60 until 1) rank-and-file Republican politicians start admitting that the Trump campaign may have engaged in collusion or 2) any official investigative body (special counsel, congressional committees) issues a report that says as much. Until that point, each scandalous news item will only get us halfway there."

This "meter" is gonna look fucking ridiculous when it gets into fractions/decimal points of pointlessness.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:33 PM on July 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


right, lalex?? Jason Miller is on there defending Jr by saying that this all occurred way before the Russian Hacking thing was in the air so of course Don Jr had no idea that this was connected to Russian interference!
posted by Justinian at 9:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Article III, Section 3
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
If just two of the many, many parasitic cretins party to these acts of levying [Cyber] War against and giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemies of the several States will testify, we might actually see someone held responsible for these acts of overt Treason.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:49 PM on July 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** Kobach commission:
-- Linked earlier, this Slate piece is a good summary of the current state of the legal battles over the voter data request, although there were more late day developments. In short:
-- The commission has voluntarily told states to hold off on sending data while we await a ruling on a temporary restraining order in the EPIC lawsuit. This is the one over failure to meet data security requirements of the E-Government Act. FWIW, people seemed to feel the judge was pretty sympathetic to EPIC's request, but no ruling yet.
-- The ACLU filed suit over failure to meet public meetings requirements of the Federal Advisory Committee Act. Among other things, it seeks to compel the commission to make meetings public and share meetings.
-- The Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law also filed a suit for FACA violations and they are the ones who filed the Hatch Act complaint against Kobach personally.
-- There's also been a complaint filed with OMB about violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act, for failures to explain why this data is necessary, etc.
-- Public Citizen is suing for Privacy Act violations.
-- And there's one more, citing multiple laws, trying to find out more about it.
-- Kobach named a Democrat no one ever heard of to the commission today...and yet another leading light of the vote suppression movement, Christian Adams.

-- NYT: This year's meeting of Secretaries of State is not a very good time.

-- 26 Dem Senators formally call for the commission to permanently bag the data request.
** Healthcare-- Global Strategy poll finds that when people find out their senator supports BCRA, their support drops 31 points.

** 2018 Senate:
-- 538: Still some time on the clock, but GOP recruitment still looking quite poor, Dem pretty good.

-- A poll has several prospective GOP candidates in Missouri ahead of Claire McCaskill. On the other hand, she's raising a lot of money ($3.1M in 2Q), and a wide open GOP field could mean a lot of wasted time and money for the eventual nominee.

-- In general, Dem incumbents raising funds pretty strongly. A necessary evil, at this point.
** Odds & ends:
-- SF Chronicle: Trump inspiring many more women to run for office. In 2016, 900 women contacted Emily's List; this year - 13,000.

-- States continuing to push voter ID in vote suppression efforts. There have been some positive voting developments of late, though.

-- The Texas redistricting saga is back in court again. This has been dragging on forever, but the state has lost several intermediate steps. If the maps are found illegal, Dems would likely pick up at least 2-3 seats.

-- WP: Obama headlining a fundraiser for National Democratic Redistricting Committee. He's also expected to start stumping for candidates such as VA gov candidate Northam.

-- Since Paul Ryan is too afraid of his constituents to hold town halls, Rep. Mark Pocan from WI-02 thoughtfully held two in Ryan's district.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:52 PM on July 10, 2017 [50 favorites]


Haven't we been through this? I don't think Russia is an "enemy" of the US in the context of a sentence scoping it to "War". Rival, maybe.
posted by ctmf at 9:53 PM on July 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Although I personally consider information warfare attacks acts of war, I'm not sure the international community does yet.
posted by ctmf at 9:55 PM on July 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I just love the fact that the President tweets about anything and everything that's on his mind or on cable news, but can't manage a single 140 characters to defend his dumbass son.

"I don't know any Donald Trump, Jr. I've never met him. I've heard he's said nice things about me but I don't know him. We may have been in the same room at some time, but I don't have a relationship with him."
posted by perhapses at 9:56 PM on July 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


"But he's your son."
"Some people say he's my son. He could be. But he could be someone else's son. No one really knows."
posted by perhapses at 10:06 PM on July 10, 2017 [56 favorites]


"Obviously we're going to have to look into that, but I'm putting together some investigators, the bestigators, believe me, to look into it, in say two weeks, to see if they can find his birth certificate."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:15 PM on July 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


Remember that super-weird tweet from the Russian Embassy with the picture of burgers back in February? We first discussed it here. I'm still wondering wtf that was about*. Given that as time goes on, we're putting together pieces after the fact (e.g. publicist checking in on facebook on his way to the treason meeting; Putin taking no action on sanctions and Trump tweeting about same on the day after Flynn convo w Kislyak, etc), I think we really need to keep an eye out for any shady goings-on in the Trump administration that happened on Feb 13, 2017 that we can tie back to this tweet, so that this particular mystery can be solved. I will not rest until I know the truth.

*I can neither confirm nor deny that I may have spent a stupid amount of time researching this, leading to a well above-average knowledge about the Russian cattle ranching industry,
posted by triggerfinger at 10:24 PM on July 10, 2017 [45 favorites]


It was not necessarily a pretty building. Some architectural critics teed off on the Brutalist design before it was even fully occupied. The criticism hasn’t stopped since. A travel Web site recently dubbed the Hoover “the ugliest building in the world,” listing it seven spots ahead of Trump Tower, in New York.

Fake news! The Hoover is a beautiful building, come fight me
posted by elsietheeel at 10:26 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Although I personally consider information warfare attacks acts of war, I'm not sure the international community does yet.

NO WAR FOR EMAIL
posted by save alive nothing that breatheth at 10:35 PM on July 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rob Goldstone's public facebook page was just taken down! Hope you had a good night's sleep, Robbo, 'cause I expect it's the last one you'll get for quite some time.
posted by Justinian at 12:21 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Actually, he just changed the url to try to shake people. It is all still there at: https://www.facebook.com/Rgoldst/
posted by bootlegpop at 12:56 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Wow, the comments on Goldstone's public FB page are wonderfully vitriolic. I'm surprised he really thought changing the url would shake people...


posted by suburbanbeatnik at 1:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Remember that super-weird tweet from the Russian Embassy with the picture of burgers back in February? We first discussed it here. I'm still wondering wtf that was about*. Given that as time goes on, we're putting together pieces after the fact (e.g. publicist checking in on facebook on his way to the treason meeting; Putin taking no action on sanctions and Trump tweeting about same on the day after Flynn convo w Kislyak, etc), I think we really need to keep an eye out for any shady goings-on in the Trump administration that happened on Feb 13, 2017 that we can tie back to this tweet, so that this particular mystery can be solved. I will not rest until I know the truth.
Nice reminder, triggerfinger. Back then, we were still not clued into just how crazy everything is. Now we know how the Russians love their snarky jokes, I think the latest line was Putin's "We'll talk to the White House and tell them to fix that." So I think the image is just some of that. If you want it darker, it could be a "secret" message to the Trump org that they need to deliver - hey maybe the Russians are communicating at Trump through images on twitter (it would make sense). What else have they tweeted?
posted by mumimor at 1:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well Monday was a nice start to Collusion Week. I just hope it has more impact than Infrastructure Week.

I'm going to assume that the GOP is now cool with foreign intervention in our elections. Maybe the Democrat running in 2020 can get some help from the Chinese. Why allow the Koch Brothers and The Mercers to have all the fun? We can start making promises to other countries for donations, right? After all Russia is not the only country who has a special interest in the direction our government takes. Maybe the EU would like to help elect a proactive climate change candidate.

One part of Don, Jr.'s story I have not heard discussed is the price that the Trump campaign was willing to pay for dirt on Hillary. The 3 colluders went into the meeting expecting oppo but what were they prepared to give? Money? Favors? Did they expect it to be free?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


The 3 colluders went into the meeting expecting oppo but what were they prepared to give? Money? Favors? Did they expect it to be free?

I think the sudden GOP convention platform about turn on Ukraine might have had something to do with it.
posted by PenDevil at 1:55 AM on July 11, 2017 [20 favorites]


My point was that we can speculate what was offered/given but if Don Jr. is willing to say openly that he went to a meeting expecting oppo then he should be willing to say openly what he expected to give. Was he prepared to offer cash and if so, how much? Was he expecting a tit for tat scenario? Did he think the Russians would give him dirt on Hillary for free and if so did he ever stop to wonder about their motives?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:03 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


Did he think the Russians would give him dirt on Hillary for free

Not in the cretin's defense, but a lot of the super-rich or super-famous, or both, do expect things for free because that's what happens when you're one of those things.

Add in the narcissism of that clan and their conviction that they're the very smartest people ever, and I'd be shocked if they thought anything other than "of course they want to give us stuff" and/or "we'll outfox them" and/or "who gives a shit, we'll be making bank."
posted by maxwelton at 3:33 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Did he think the Russians would give him dirt on Hillary for free

Modifying the GOP's platform on Russia and Ukraine didn't actually cost him anything. It's like when they lobbed cruise missiles at that Syrian airstrip - it's other peoples' money.
posted by sebastienbailard at 3:48 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


He crows about being on some local NYC celebrity TV show with Deepak Chopra and Hillary Clinton, and he seems obsessed with fancy food, luxury travel, and handsome young men.

NPR ran a clip they had of him when they reported this story. The clip was from a time he made an appearance on one of their shows as a guest, discussing the subject of "flying fat." I can't remember what he said, but it made me chuckle.

Everyone else in Trump's world seems to be such a goon. Just stupid and angry and unpleasant. It's kind of a nice change to meet a character who is capable of enjoying himself, and of laughing at his own expense.

I hope he rats them all out and lifts and expensive drink to toast them, laughing, as he watches the news of impeachment on TV. (And I hope he tests all his food for polonium.)

He also would not be a bad viewpoint character for a movie...
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


And he'll be played by Paul Giamatti, right?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:05 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


Okay. I've been sort of holding all the news at arms-length for mental health reasons, and I've also been rendered cynical by one too many "surely this" moments from all of last year.

So. What could realistically happen now? Could Don Jr. be arrested? Fined? Tried and imprisoned? Slap on the wrist? Anything?

I'm sort of sitting here looking at everyone freaking out about this and thinking "well, yeah, but we always knew they were garbage humans who were colluding with Russia, duh," and I don't get why everyone's abuzz because I feel like this is yet another thing that no one will do anything about. Prove me wrong.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:15 AM on July 11, 2017 [27 favorites]


His Facebook is full of brags about flying first class, so his "flying fat" concerns seem to come down to whether they have the lemon rind garnish on this flight's filet of sole.

"Publicist" is a great job for a spy though. You get to travel the world running elbows wth celebrities and posting to social media and apparently have bottomless amounts of money even though you represent an "artist" no one ever heard of except as the son of a dictator.

Who pays Goldstone?
posted by spitbull at 4:16 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Goldstone changed the URL. He also removed the photo that heads up this article on AdAge. Among the comments someone noted that "his eyebrows are made out of five o'clock shadow". The FB page is astounding. Don't miss the Andy Panda act (Goldstone plays both parts) recorded on the deck of a Greek tour boat. One Trumper called Goldstone a traitor in comments. (May now be deleted.) But look at the guy! He reminds me of the Chamber of Commerce president in a small city who has gone to a convention in Vegas. But what happens on the Internet goes worldwide.

(I really try not to post in these threads, but I just can't stay away. When all this is over, I'm entering therapy. Or a monastery. Or an opium den or something.)
posted by CCBC at 4:16 AM on July 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


Sorry, son of an oligarch, not dictator. And terrible pop singer too.

That AdAge article has an amazing graphic that suggests Goldstone is the link between Trump and Betty White in Azeri circles.
posted by spitbull at 4:23 AM on July 11, 2017


Do not sully Betty White with these colossal asswipes.
posted by yoga at 4:25 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


He also seems like a guy who would rather die of polonium poisoning than make his social media private. A total exhibitionist would seem a bad choice for a broker of a secret treason meeting.

And yoga, Look at the AdAge graphic!
posted by spitbull at 4:26 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's from the "Rogue POTUS staff" twitter account, so take with a grain of salt, but it looks like Trump is calling for some kind of emergency meeting.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:31 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just have to say that a colossal asswipe would seem quite useful for not sullying yourself.
posted by spitbull at 4:32 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


A few random thoughts on the DJT Jr. story...

When this broke Sunday afternoon, it got my attention for a few reasons besides the fact that Jr. had pretty much admitted collusion. One was the timing. It broke on a Sunday afternoon the week after a holiday. This isn't a Friday news dump, or one of the regular evening stories that the Times and WaPo has managed to get. This was dropped when the timing would have maximum impact. It was also dropped after the bizarro world G20 meeting with Putin, with the "well, jeez, Putin says they didn't interfere so that's that" from Trump, and the proposed cybersecurity WTF thing. Whoever was working to get this story out to the press seems to have a sense of urgency about it. And the timing of the initial drop was perfect because it got everyone talking, and paying attention, so that the "drip drip drip" of additional related info is feeding the frenzy. You have the Goldstone info, the info on who set up the meeting, and now the email hammer. Everything about this was timed for maximum damage.

Next, while this is obviously a huge story, I don't think we're even remotely close to done with the damage here. Trump has tried to maintain plausible deniability as much as possible and yet this story keeps inching closer to him. The chances are very good that Pence gets tangled up in this beyond a point where he can just hand-wave things away with "oh, I was lied to" or claiming ignorance. I also would not be shocked if some high profile congresscritters got swept up in things. Plus Mueller is working behind the scenes and has assembled a team that makes it look like he's chasing down some bad, bad things. Now could this story be the big bombshell and nothing else happens? It's possible, but there's so much damn smoke coming out of offices all over D.C. that I highly doubt that this is the case. I've mentioned before that we're gonna need a 9/11 style commission to sort all this out when we're on the other side of all of this.

Last, I think that Putin having success behind all expectations here is going to boomerang on him. Trump and crew have been unable to conduct themselves in a manner where the Russian influence doesn't look overt, and Putin now has a lot of eyes in the US watching him that weren't before. If we get a Dem president in 2020, or even some of the less evil Republicans, the sanctions that Putin wants lifted are likely going to get more severe. Candidates are going to have to take a tough stance on Russia. This whole thing isn't going to make life easier for Russia in the end.
posted by azpenguin at 4:40 AM on July 11, 2017 [24 favorites]


The 3 colluders went into the meeting expecting oppo but what were they prepared to give? Money? Favors? Did they expect it to be free?

but a lot of the super-rich or super-famous, or both, do expect things for free ... Add in the narcissism of that clan and their conviction that they're the smartest people ever....


Trump Jr, Jared, probably. But not Manafort. He would be prepared for this, but with what?
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's from the "Rogue POTUS staff" twitter account

That Twitter account's track record suggests it's phoney, and its odd misspellings of certain words suggest transliteration errors from a native Cyrillic-language speaker. Whether it's Russian Dezinformatsiya or just some Macedonian teen's trolling is another question. In any case, it should be cited only with the [fake?] tag.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:49 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


@BraddJaffy:
Exclusive: Russian who met w/Don Jr. tells NBC News she didn't have Clinton info they wanted
http://nbcnews.to/2t9mFwr
http://snpy.tv/2uMvK08

@BraddJaffy:
“quite possible that maybe they were longing for such information…they wanted it so badly…they could only hear the thought that they wanted”

@nycjim:
Also, Russian lawyer tells NBC it was the Trump campaign that approached her about getting dirt on Hillary, not the other way around.
posted by chris24 at 4:51 AM on July 11, 2017 [24 favorites]


Russian lawyer tells NBC it was the Trump campaign that approached her about getting dirt on Hillary, not the other way around.

I would be inclined to distrust anything said by someone in Putin's orbit, no matter how much it might -- no, ESPECIALLY if it would -- match what I want to believe is true.
posted by Slothrup at 4:56 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


Way to go, NBC. Keep that disinformation campaign going.
posted by rc3spencer at 5:00 AM on July 11, 2017


Trump Jr, Jared, probably. But not Manafort. He would be prepared for this, but with what?

The pro quo was the sanctions, wasn't it? That seems to be the message of "let's have a meeting about Clinton oppo, and oh, by the way, that Magnitsky Act sure does suck."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


I would be inclined to distrust anything said by someone in Putin's orbit, no matter how much it might -- no, ESPECIALLY if it would -- match what I want to believe is true.

I agree. But it's one more thing they'll have to defend/counter in the media.

However, considering they sent an email on a motherfucking criminal conspiracy, and did a Facebook checkin for the meeting, I'm thinking Trump's Razor has real possibilities here.
posted by chris24 at 5:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


considering they sent an email on a motherfucking criminal conspiracy

Was that wrong?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Headline in today's Izvestia: Moscow is ready to expel American diplomats. Part of BBC reporter Steve Rosenberg's video review of news:
  • Retribution for closure of Russian compounds in US is coming soon
  • Kremlin doesn't take Trump's tweets seriously (2nd one, trashing "Cyber Unit"); believes they are solely for a domestic audience
  • Moscow continuing to give Donald Trump a lot of leeway
posted by pjenks at 5:17 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


So I went a ways down Brad Jaffy's Twitter feed (senior editor NBC News, always good to identify why one mentions a random tweeter) and found this amazing reference to a piece on today's Times by Mark Leibovich: "This Town Melts Down."

The description of Trump watching Fox and Friends by DVR in the middle of the day is rich and toxic.

In early June, I stopped by the White House to see Hope Hicks, the president’s longtime aide and another close-in operator, whom I came to know during the campaign. After about 15 minutes of chatting in an ornate West Wing conference room, she asked me if I wanted to ‘‘say hello.’’ I wondered to whom. ‘‘Reince? Spicer?’’

No, she said, ‘‘Potus.’’

Huh. It’s usually not this easy to infringe on the president’s schedule.

‘‘Uh, sure,’’ I said.

She walked me in.

The president was sitting alone in a small dining room just off the Oval Office at a wooden table covered with papers. His cheeks were the color of coral, not the usual glowing orange we see when he’s framed by a screen. Trump half-stood, said hello and shook my hand. I hadn’t seen him since the election, and I congratulated him on his victory. He thanked me and pointed out that ‘‘you treated me very badly’’ during the campaign, and that the ‘‘failing New York Times’’ had been ‘‘so unfair’’ to him, but he was perfectly pleasant about it. Trump also mentioned that his popularity with his base was ‘‘looking great’’ and that he had ‘‘inherited a mess.’’

It was 12:30, but the president was not eating lunch. He was watching a recording of ‘‘Fox and Friends’’ from about four hours earlier on a large TV mounted on the wall. This was one of those stretches when Trump was tweeting a lot, including attacks on the mayor of London following a terrorist attack on the city the previous weekend. The tweets were becoming a growing topic of concern among Republicans, many of whom were urging him to stop. But like most reporters, I found his tweets far more illuminating than anything the White House press office could ever disgorge. I urged him to keep it up.

Trump assured me that he would keep tweeting. ‘‘It’s my voice,’’ Trump said of Twitter, enumerating how many millions of followers he had. ‘‘They want to take away my voice,’’ Trump said. ‘‘They’re not going to take away my social media.’’


JFC in a kayak.
posted by spitbull at 5:24 AM on July 11, 2017 [68 favorites]


I think this video off Goldstone's facebook feed nicely summarizes his motivation for arranging that Trump Tower meeting.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:27 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


More on NK situation & fallout in South Korea from our THAAD missile system:

BBC: The Korea Tourism Organisation (KTO) predicted there could be 4.7 million fewer foreign tourists this year than in 2016 - a drop of about 27%.

China has banned travel agencies from selling package tours to Korea in protest at Seoul allowing a US missile defence system. Visitors from China made up 46.8% of tourists in South Korea last year.


This will likely create more political will to either "solve" North Korea or pivot away from the US so they get that tourism money back.
posted by bluecore at 5:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Republicans appear to be at least seven votes short of the 50 they need to get a health care bill through the Senate, which is basically where they were when Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell unveiled a draft bill more than two weeks ago.
Republicans Are Still Seven Votes Shy on Health Care (Perry Bacon Jr. / FiveThirtyEight)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 5:44 AM on July 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


It seems like the most important details of the Trump-Veselnitskya meeting are being talked about by reporters, but not yet shared:
  • NYTimes: "Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy." ... But what, exactly, did the email say?
  • Keir Simmons on Morning Joe: "... She tells a fascinating story of getting a phone call from a man she didn't know and being told to come to Trump Tower for a meeting with the Trump campaign" ... Why didn't you show us the part where she said that?
posted by pjenks at 5:54 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think this video off Goldstone's facebook feed nicely summarizes his motivation for arranging that Trump Tower meeting.

Speaking as a fat man, that is not a flattering shirt for a fat man. And when I'm giving out fashion advice, something has gone horribly wrong.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:54 AM on July 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


I've reached the stage where I want to tackle to the ground every fresh development, headline, tweet, and rumor, hold a knife to its throat, and scream in its face ARE YOU BULLSHIT? IS THIS ANOTHER BULLSHIT THING HAPPENING? ANSWER ME I MUST KNOW
posted by um at 6:17 AM on July 11, 2017 [30 favorites]


that shirt

He is the very model of a modern minor publicist.

Woulda kept going but nothing rhymes with publicist.
posted by spitbull at 6:18 AM on July 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


Don’t Laugh at Illinois, Your State Could Be Next [Kim S. Reuben and Richard C. Auxier; Tax Policy Center]
Illinois was the only state to go two years without a budget but it was far from the only state to miss a fiscal deadline. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, 10 states failed to pass budgets by the start of their fiscal year (July 1 in most states) and six of those states still have not done so. (Michigan does not have a budget but its fiscal year starts on October 1). Twelve more (including two that passed late budgets) needed special sessions to finish the job. [...]

Adding to these ongoing state budget problems: the federal government. Congress has not passed any major legislation yet, but many of the ideas on its agenda would kick huge budget questions to the states. How do states respond if Congress cuts the federal contribution to Medicaid? What if Congress repeals the state and local tax deduction? And many of the president’s proposed budget cuts—such as food stamps—would land hard on the states. [...]

While few politicians want to raise taxes, many states are learning that tax cuts are no panacea. State economic development depends on good infrastructure and workforce development. Families and employers want quality schools. And numerous private and public groups (including local governments) depend on state funding.

...Increasingly, state lawmakers are taking tough, but prudent, votes even at the risk of defying an executive of their own party.
posted by melissasaurus at 6:22 AM on July 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


nothing rhymes with publicist.

"frogmarch gist"
posted by thelonius at 6:25 AM on July 11, 2017


nothing rhymes with publicist.

Gilbert would disagree (see: the lady novelist).
posted by Melismata at 6:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


China has banned travel agencies from selling package tours to Korea in protest at Seoul allowing a US missile defence system. Visitors from China made up 46.8% of tourists in South Korea last year.

Not that South Korea doesn't have a major international event coming up in just under seven months that will cost billions of dollars and is/was expected to attract thousands of visitors. No, nothing to worry about there...
posted by hangashore at 6:30 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


"Bullshit artist"
posted by thebrokedown at 6:30 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Wall Begins to Crumble: Notes on Collusion (Lawfareblog)
But it is this very distinction, in which Trump’s own defenders are so heavily invested, that now appears poised to crumble. Over the past two weeks, two major stories have developed suggesting that there may, after all, have been covert contacts, meetings, and agreements between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

Notably, these stories are not “leaks”—that is, improper disclosures from investigators or congressional overseers. The first story is sourced to an individual involved in the effort that the story describes who independently sought out the Wall Street Journal to tell his tale, along with other non-government sources connected to the matter. The second story is sourced to individuals “briefed on” and “with knowledge” of the relevant material, including “three advisers to the White House,” who described the relevant information to the New York Times. Some of the story is sourced to private defense lawyers communicating with reporters in an effort to help their clients.

And while the stories don’t—yet—show any actual collusive agreement or specific actions, they do show two separate incidents in which the Trump campaign or someone purporting to act on its behalf knowingly sought to engage Russian representatives in order to garner damaging information on Hillary Clinton.

In other words, if the Trump campaign didn’t collude with the Russians, it wasn’t for lack of trying.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:32 AM on July 11, 2017 [20 favorites]


Sorry, that's not so much a rhyme as a synonym.
posted by thebrokedown at 6:32 AM on July 11, 2017






Sorry to start a rhyming derail! Yes I could have used a compound rhyme I guess. It's the "pub" part that is hard. I thought of "dub assist" since he has exec producer credits on an album. "Club and fist" would ether be too, um, personal or mischaracterize an obviously not violent man. Weaken the rhyme a bit to "stud assist" and you appear to have his vacation strategy.
posted by spitbull at 6:39 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sorry, that's not so much a rhyme as a synonym.

Read his "little list song." You'll get some ideas.
posted by Melismata at 6:39 AM on July 11, 2017


Excuse me, but the reason that Donald Trump, Jr. (name coincidental, no proven relation) failed to get damaging information on Hillary is that the sort of information he wanted didn't exist. That is what Donald Jr. saw as equivocation on the part of the Russian lawyer / spy. They colluded to the maximum extent possible and Hillary wasn't dirty.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:41 AM on July 11, 2017 [55 favorites]


I am the very model of a modern minor publicist
I brokered secret Russia talks but lying media scuttled this
posted by SpiffyRob at 6:43 AM on July 11, 2017 [84 favorites]


trump: even if i did what you think i did, you would need to cite a more specific grievance
press: here's an itemized list of thirty years of treasons
everyone: sweet jesus
posted by entropicamericana at 6:44 AM on July 11, 2017 [41 favorites]


it's not that she wasn't dirty, it's just that she smashed all of her phones with a hammer and bleached them so thoroughly that even russian haxx0rz couldn't get at the three billion deleted HER EMAILS!!!!1!!!!1

[fake?]
posted by murphy slaw at 6:45 AM on July 11, 2017


> ‘‘They’re not going to take away my social media.’’

What a sad, small man.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:46 AM on July 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


SpiffyRob, I just enspousened you for that.
posted by orrnyereg at 6:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Point of information on Goldstone for American readers: "Andy Panda" is in fact Andy Pandy, a 1950s (and recently rebooted) BBC TV puppet show for small children. Here are Andy and Teddy playing in the garden. Original dialogue thought to be "You're a puppet! No, you're the puppet!".
posted by Devonian at 6:50 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


This gets back to Donald Trump and Roger Stone. Stone and a National Enquirer mentality fill Trump's mind. Stone wrote a book that alleged the many murders by the Clintons. Surely the Russian intelligence, with their spy satellites, and their miniaturized cameras inside of microwaves and ice cream cones and their KGBistros and their Book of Secяets would have the proof of all of that.

It has been argued that Trump is suffering from Alzheimer's. Studiously believing The National Enquirer is indistinguishable from dementia.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:55 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Misogynist rhymes with publicist, ja? ;)
posted by saulgoodman at 6:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Egg McMuffin was just on MSNBC matched up against a pro-Trump... ex-FBI agent, I think? and his performance was just glorious, he's our knight in shining armor. Sparring over the Trump Jr. meeting, Egg would not let the other guy get away with a single crumb of "I'm an intelligence dude so I'm authoritative" bullshit and wielded his moral outrage over Trumpian collaborating-with-America's-adversary crap like a light-saber, his final words being "We have lost our way."
posted by XMLicious at 7:00 AM on July 11, 2017 [33 favorites]


The bar for being fucked has been raised really, really high. Used to be you were fucked if you had an affair, had an affair and got your mistress pregnant, or were improperly miked at a rally.

Now you can cheat on your wife, divorce her and marry your mistress, cheat on your second wife, divorce her and marry your mistress, then marry her and be elected president of the United States.


One of these things is not like the other.
posted by Gelatin at 7:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


SecretAgentSockpuppet: So, I think we're starting to see a "sour grapes" phenomenon, where university has become so far out of rational reach for most Americans, but their entire school years they're told how only college graduates succeed in life, and many people are justifiably angry that this roadblock of hundreds of thousands of dollars is stopping them.

There's also the very real elitism that suggests anyone who chooses a trade is somehow a lesser member of society, and that rankles deeply with the blue collar folks I work with.


Instead of being sour, why not advocate for free public education?

More than 30,000 Tennesseans and 7,000 Oregonians have gone to community college tuition free already. Students in New York and San Francisco are set to start on the same path this fall. And it's picking up steam, with lawmakers in several other places across the country considering similar programs. (Katie Lobosco for CNN Money, May 16, 2017)

And I agree that the idea that college is the only path towards success is bunk. Vocational high schools and trade schools, as well as community colleges that offer associates degrees for two-year programs, are great to support a range of professions and interests.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:13 AM on July 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


How's that plan to privatize air traffic control going?

To be fair, this doesn't sound like an ATC failure -- it's something weird on the part of the Air Canada pilot. Generally, at an airport like this the pilot would be tuned into an ILS (Instrument Landing System) beacon, which can be locked on to via the plane's autopilot, or at least used as fight guidance if the landing is being done manually.

(The other alternative, if it had sufficiently advanced avionics, is what's called an RNAV approach, which is basically following a super-precise GPS with both horizontal and vertical guidance, but you can't auto-land on an RNAV approach).

My best guess, since the weather was good and the report says "the pilot was flying the plane manually" was that he was doing a visual approach on the runway and for ... reasons ... got mixed up and was trying to do a visual on the taxiway instead.

In this case, ATC did exactly what they were supposed to: as soon as they identified imminent danger they took immediate action to abort the landing and let things "reset".

This is probably entirely (or almost entirely) pilot error and shouldn't be pinned in ATC IMO.

[Not a pilot, but a big aviation aficionado]
posted by jammer at 7:17 AM on July 11, 2017 [22 favorites]




Chrysostom: McCain says [senate anti-health] bill is probably dead, needs to start over as bipartisan process.

zachlipton: Senate Democrats have identified potential new allies in their effort to scuttle the current health-care proposal: Republican governors, particularly those who helped expand Medicaid in their states under the Affordable Care Act.

Huh, I didn't realize that McCain was a Democrat, and that he was talking about Republican governors. Weird.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:28 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


nothing rhymes with publicist

pubic cyst
posted by biogeo at 7:34 AM on July 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


Anything McCain says I ignore, but maybe he can provide cover for other Republicans to say "nah." Still calling my semi-sentient slimebag Senators (Cruz and Corbyn) at this point mostly to annoy them rather than in hopes of changing their commitment to making dying much more possible for the Texans they are sworn to represent.
posted by emjaybee at 7:35 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Instead of being sour, why not advocate for free public education?

Because then Those People get something they don't deserve, and it's better that one of them doesn't get over than 99 people get something they need.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


Fans of McMuffin should probably not look up hid actual position on anything.
posted by Artw at 7:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [42 favorites]


Chrysostom: Healthcare-- Global Strategy poll finds that when people find out their senator supports BCRA, their support drops 31 points

Good ... good ... let the hate flow through you. Er, let their hate bring them down.

Cheapest counter GOP ads: billboards with Senators's face, and the bold text "SENATOR [DIRTBAG] SUPPORTS THE SENATE'S HEALTH CARE BILL THAT WOULD LEAVE 22 MILLION PEOPLE WITHOUT INSURANCE"
posted by filthy light thief at 7:44 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


at the present moment, his position on selling out the country to a foreign power gives him a serious leg up over the rest of the republican party, who hold all of his odious positions but are fine with colluding with the kremlin.
posted by murphy slaw at 7:46 AM on July 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


Via CNN: Sen. John McCain says Donald Trump Jr.'s meeting is part of an evolving storyline, and there will be "many more shoes that will drop." When CNN's Manu Raju asked how serious this story was, McCain said he didn't know but it needs to be "pursued and looked at."

Pursued and looked at. PURSUED AND LOOKED AT, HE SAYS.
posted by lydhre at 7:49 AM on July 11, 2017 [32 favorites]


spitbull: Trump assured me that he would keep tweeting. ‘‘It’s my voice,’’ Trump said of Twitter, enumerating how many millions of followers he had. ‘‘They want to take away my voice,’’ Trump said. ‘‘They’re not going to take away my social media.’’

"They switched from the Twitter to the Signal, but I kept my Twitter because it didn't hide my texts, and the texts are my voice and it's not okay because if they take my social media then I'll set the country on fire... "
posted by filthy light thief at 7:51 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Pursued and looked at. PURSUED AND LOOKED AT, HE SAYS.

Having pursued it, and looked at it, Senator McCain reports he found it "very disturbing" and "extremely concerning".
posted by dis_integration at 7:54 AM on July 11, 2017 [28 favorites]


A little bit of color, completely off topic (?) for this thread.

NYT: Yuri Drozdov, Soviet Superspy Who Planted ‘Illegals’ in Other Countries, Dies at 91

“General Drozdov devoted his life to serving the Motherland and enhancing the country’s national security,” President Vladimir V. Putin, who was a lieutenant colonel in the K.G.B., said in a statement on the Kremlin’s website.

At a ceremony last month for the S.V.R.’s 95th anniversary, Mr. Putin named General Drozdov a hero of what is known in Russia as illegal intelligence [...] The agents overseen by General Drozdov were planted in other countries disguised as residents and lived there while making contacts and gathering information."


This is working better for me if I imagine it as part of a long-planned clean-up operation, mopping up all the loose ends, like that famous scene in Godfather II.
posted by RedOrGreen at 7:56 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]




Well, that was unexpected.
posted by pjenks at 8:06 AM on July 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


Instead of being sour, why not advocate for free public education?
Because no one elected wants to mess with the upper middle class.
posted by rc3spencer at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


For those looking for the money shot, it's in the "Continues Here" link.

Holy balls. I feel faint.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2017 [39 favorites]


That's* possibly the dumbest fucking thing I have ever seen and it has been one fuck of a dumb year, so that's really saying something.

*DTJeRk posting evidence of treason, I mean.
posted by bootlegpop at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2017 [37 favorites]


But maybe Jr posted that to try and get in front of Adam Goldman's just posted follow-up from last night which seems to have different details
The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,” read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.

He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”
posted by Brainy at 8:08 AM on July 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


Fans of McMuffin should probably not look up his actual position on anything.

I don't agree with McMuffin on any major policy choices, but this isn't a conversation about policy. It's one about corruption and about loyalty to country, which transcends policy.

Patriotism isn't just a cheap buzzword. McMuffin may be a disaster on policy, but I don't doubt for a moment his patriotism, and for that I stand with him as a fellow American against these traitors would would betray our country to enrich themselves.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [57 favorites]


Is there a gun pointed at his head? Because that is very frank admission of what looks like unambiguous collusion, if not treason.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [19 favorites]


From the email:
Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting. The Crown prosecuter of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings wth Russia and would be very useful to your father.
posted by pjenks at 8:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Wait I don't get this strategy

Something incriminating coming out? Better get out in front of it by...releasing...it...first

[insert Mugato crazy pills gif]
posted by Existential Dread at 8:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


This seems like a great day to have to go spend 4 hours in a vendor presentation ;___;

(I wasn't going to take my laptop with me. Um, now I am.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


ron_paul_its_happening.gif
posted by PenDevil at 8:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


If these were not provided by Don Jr. himself, I would say they were forgeries meant to entrap the media in "fake news". As usual the screenwriters are falling back on cliche and tired tropes.
posted by pjenks at 8:12 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Is...is he trying to fuck over his dad before his dad can fuck him? Is that what's going on here?
posted by Existential Dread at 8:13 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]




"I would send this information to your father via Rhona"

Who is Rhona?
posted by gucci mane at 8:13 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


McMuffin may be a disaster on policy, but I don't doubt for a moment his patriotism, and for that I stand with him as a fellow American against these traitors would would betray our country to enrich themselves.

I may be a criminal lunatic, but I'm an American criminal lunatic.
posted by Etrigan at 8:14 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Rhona
posted by pjenks at 8:14 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]




Something incriminating coming out? Better get out in front of it by...releasing...it...first

[BURR]
At his own house!

[MADISON]
At his own house!

[DEEP VOICE]
Damn!
posted by mikepop at 8:15 AM on July 11, 2017 [28 favorites]


Also, uh, we're gonna need a bigger thread.
posted by lydhre at 8:15 AM on July 11, 2017 [64 favorites]


So uh, isn't a Russian "Crown Prosecutor" like the equivalent of a US Attorney, appointed by Putin himself?

And he forwarded all this to Kushner and Manafort.

So. I don't know what else to call this other than a smoking gun. Quick, someone ask John McCain if he's concerned.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:16 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


One interpretation is: he hates his father. He really hates his father.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:16 AM on July 11, 2017 [20 favorites]


Fans of McMuffin should probably not look up hid actual position on anything.

He's wrong but at least he's wrong within normal parameters. I can disagree with him while admiring him for not going along with the anything that might destroy America for the tax cuts mentality.
posted by Talez at 8:18 AM on July 11, 2017 [15 favorites]




I wonder if, even in his very disturbing and extremely concerning dreams, McCain thought that the other shoes that might drop would be Junior releasing his own emails just because.
posted by lydhre at 8:20 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW IS THIS MAN SO GODDAMN STUPID HOW

There's a reason his nickname is Fredo (seriously).
posted by leotrotsky at 8:20 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


@gilbertjasono: great stuff in the latest David Brooks column

The same David Brooks who has been pretending there's nothing to the Russia story -- most recently on NPR's Friday politics round-up? Who cares what that phony has to say?
posted by Gelatin at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's like they have a Sea Cucumber legal strategy where they just vomit up their internal organs until predators swim off disgusted.
posted by Lord_Pall at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2017 [94 favorites]


If Trump was brought down by being a shitty father and by emails, I would find that acceptable.
posted by emjaybee at 8:21 AM on July 11, 2017 [84 favorites]


-spoken to and transcribed by Meredith McIver (fake, much like Meredith)
posted by Yowser at 8:22 AM on July 11, 2017


There's a reason his nickname is Fredo (seriously).


Is his nickname really Fredo? Is there a source for this?
posted by drezdn at 8:24 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump Tower serves the best Ultra-Sensitive Nothing-Burgers™
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:24 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Somebody was surveilled by the FBI (via their second FISA warrant request), is it possibly Don Jr.?
posted by gucci mane at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2017


How is Don Jr not being arrested right now? I don't understand.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


If Trump was brought down by being a shitty father and by emails, I would find that acceptable.

It would give a nice Shakespearean quality to this HBO movie (the one that starts at the 2013 Miss Universe pageant). Lord knows there's nothing else dignified about this mess.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:25 AM on July 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


I know it's going to be a day when I leave this thread open in another tab while I do stuff and come back like an hour later to (120 new comments).
posted by asteria at 8:26 AM on July 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


How is Don Jr not being arrested right now? I don't understand.

Why would Mueller want to prevent him posting the evidence he needs on Twitter?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:27 AM on July 11, 2017 [37 favorites]


Oh nevermind, that was Carter Page. Ugh this plotline is so jumbled!
posted by gucci mane at 8:27 AM on July 11, 2017


One interpretation is: he hates his father. He really hates his father.

Common ground. Who would have thought?
posted by Servo5678 at 8:27 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is his nickname really Fredo? Is there a source for this?

Here you go.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jesus Christ, I didn't even nap! I just took a fucking shower for 10 minutes! Jesus! Christ!

Turns out Don took a WHOLE BUNCH of notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy -- and kept them since he had no Stringer Bell to tear them up.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:28 AM on July 11, 2017 [35 favorites]


One interpretation is: he hates his father. He really hates his father.

And his brother-in-law! If Donnie Jr is toast, I guess he wants to take down Jared, too?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've said before that the Trumpistas and their enablers (specifically Greenwald) can't be as dumb as they're pretending because they'd try to open a door and kill themselves in the attempt. Now? I'm not so sure.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Well, ummmmmmm, what?

THEN HE POSTS A FOLLOWUP TWEET WITH LITERALLY VER-FUCKING-BATIM
"The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and this would be very useful to your father"
This is just impunity taken to a new world record. WHO THE FUCK DOES THIS?!?
posted by Talez at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


McMuffin may be a disaster on policy, but I don't doubt for a moment his patriotism, and for that I stand with him as a fellow American against these traitors would would betray our country to enrich themselves.

I may be a criminal lunatic, but I'm an American criminal lunatic.


My go to is Eddie Valentine from The Rocketeer.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


If all this was a TV show, this is where I'd stop watching- I'd be all, come on, this is way unrealistic, nobody is this stupid and it's completely uninteresting.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:30 AM on July 11, 2017 [34 favorites]


From Donald Trump Jr's statement: "To put this in context, this occurred before the current Russian fever was in vogue."

If it can be shown that the suspect reasonably believed he would get away with the crime, no jury should convict.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:31 AM on July 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


I really want to blow off the rest of the day and eat eggrolls and refresh this thread, but I don't want to get too celebratory until that email is authenticated.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:31 AM on July 11, 2017 [12 favorites]


Made a pdf of the email chain and statement.
posted by pjenks at 8:32 AM on July 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


I want to go forward in time fifty years to find out, firstly, if the Republicans couldn't let this one slide and secondly, what the history books say about how fucking stupid Junior was.
posted by Talez at 8:32 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. might want to avoid ordering the Polonium Milkshake. Just saying.
posted by Yowser at 8:32 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


To be fair, this doesn't sound like an ATC failure

That was my point: ATC saved the day because they didn't have the pilot waiting on hold music for ten minutes.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:33 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


The only(?) explanation is that he really thinks that getting "dirt" on Hillary proves that SHE was the crooked one and that daddy was right in saying so.

Of course, this ignores the entire colluding with a suspect and foreign government issue, but...
posted by yhbc at 8:33 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


John Oliver looking really good with that "Stupid Watergate" title right about now.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:34 AM on July 11, 2017 [39 favorites]


Also, to be a fly on the wall wherever Rachel Maddow is right now.
posted by Talez at 8:34 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


I really want to blow off the rest of the day and eat eggrolls and refresh this thread, but I don't want to get too celebratory until that email is authenticated.

I'm not sure you can get a lot more authenticated than Trump Jr. himself tweeting it?
posted by Andrhia at 8:34 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


I just ... I can't even ... What???

How do these people find lawyers willing to work for them?????
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:34 AM on July 11, 2017 [48 favorites]


At this point, Trump's Razor suggests that Junior met with the Russians in broad daylight in a D.C. pizza parlor with undocumented child prostitutes as waitstaff. Who are all wired for sound.
posted by delfin at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


yhbc: Of course, this ignores the entire colluding with a suspect and foreign government issue, but...

Maybe he's going with "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" as his defense.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2017


Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the Oval Office right now.
posted by bstreep at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Seriously, Talez. I would pay real money to be in her writing room at this moment.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:35 AM on July 11, 2017


Other than Rhona, my most favorite part of the whole email chain is the To: line.

Hey, Jeff Skilling -- hope the cell next to you is vacant!
Love,
Fellini
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:36 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


I know if I wanted to discredit the people investigating me for a serious crime, I would create a fake confession that would prove how stupid and gullible they were when they believed it. That would definitely work in my favor.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:36 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Maybe we should start calling father Trump, Don Trumpioni.

I can not refuse granting a favor to the Russians on this, the day of my daughter's wedding.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm not sure you can get a lot more authenticated than Trump Jr. himself tweeting it?
posted by Andrhia at 10:34 on July 11 [+] [!]


IDK, what do Manafort's and Kushner's copies look like? I really do want to believe Don Jr is this dumb, but I cannot give anyone involved the benefit of the doubt on nefarious fuckery.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I want to go forward in time fifty years to find out, firstly, if the Republicans couldn't let this one slide and secondly, what the history books say about how fucking stupid Junior was.

The cockroach people are going to be laughing their ovipositors off.
posted by Artw at 8:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]




From the New York Times article: After being told that The Times was about to publish the content of the emails, instead of responding to a request for comment, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted out images of them himself on Tuesday.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


So, I'm just checking I understand this: he provided proof of arguable treason before achieving any deal with Meuller et al.?

Would we know about any deal with Meuller?
posted by angrycat at 8:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


I don't think Donald Trump Jr is stupid; I think he's the logical byproduct of a life of privilege where actions don't have consequences.

Why should he try and hide the fact that he met with someone he never should have met with in a million years? Nobody's going to do anything about it.
posted by Tevin at 8:38 AM on July 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


oh he was getting in front of the NYT. Carry on.
posted by angrycat at 8:38 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


@brianstelter
Confirmed from an NYT source: "We were preparing to publish" story -- Don Jr. camp "asked for more time" to comment "and then pre-empted us"
posted by chris24 at 8:38 AM on July 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Guys guys remember when Hillary was asked to say something nice about Donald and she said "I respect his children. His children are incredibly able and devoted and I think that says a lot about Donald"???

I have to seriously admire the way the writers have set up these callbacks.
posted by Oxydude at 8:39 AM on July 11, 2017 [104 favorites]


There is no such title as Crown Prosecutor in Russia – the Crown Prosecution Service is a British term – but the equivalent in Russia is the Prosecutor General of Russia.

That office is held by Yury Yakovlevich Chaika, a Putin appointee who is known to be close to Ms. Veselnitskaya.

posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:39 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


see you space cowboy...
posted by theodolite at 8:40 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


From the New York Times article: After being told that The Times was about to publish the content of the emails, instead of responding to a request for comment, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted out images of them himself on Tuesday.

What? What fucking idiot thought that could possibly think that was a good idea? They think they can control the narrative of this story? That they can act nonchalant about some light treason? No big deal yo. Their response is to authenticate the entire fucking conversation?
posted by Talez at 8:40 AM on July 11, 2017 [31 favorites]


The article also confirms that Kushner received the full email chain, in case there was any doubt Kushner knew he would be getting dirt on Clinton from a Russian agent.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:41 AM on July 11, 2017 [40 favorites]


I don't think Donald Trump Jr is stupid; I think he's the logical

I'm gonna stop you there.

byproduct

Carry on.
posted by Etrigan at 8:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


@brianstelter
Confirmed from an NYT source: "We were preparing to publish" story -- Don Jr. camp "asked for more time" to comment "and then pre-empted us"


Why let the failing Times step on your dick when you can put on golf shoes and do it yourself?
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [31 favorites]


"Here's a picture of the gun, here's a picture of me holding the gun, here's a picture of me shooting the guy, here's a picture of the gun smoking, and here's a picture of me and all my friends laughing over the corpse"
posted by Talez at 8:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [46 favorites]


theodolite: see you space cowboy

Context: That Idiot On Your Hunting Message Board Might Be Donald Trump Jr. (Ashley Feinberg for The Concourse, a Deadspin sub-site, 9/22/16)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is it at all possible that the email chain as tweeted by Jr is actually somehow *less* incriminating than a full chain would be? As in, maybe he cut out *worse* things?
posted by nat at 8:44 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm of the opinion that there's sooo much more to this whole situation, and it involves way more than just the Jackass and his horrible spawn.

Remember Senator Wyden's question to the Confederate Jefferson B. Sessions III? He wanted to know what were the matters that were problematic in terms of Sessions leading an investigation into Russian interference in the election and/or the Trump campaign's apparent collusion with the Russian government. Sessions got very angry with Wyden for asking about those matters.

I think Michael Pence is involved in covering up collusion and that his "Aww shucks guy, they lied to me!" schtick is total bullshit. Remember--this is the guy who lead the transition team, while Jared Kushner tried to set up a communication channel with the Russian government, specifically to evade NSA and FBI surveillance. During the transition, Michael Flynn also discussed the loosening of sanctions with agents of the Russian government.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:44 AM on July 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


Trump silent as son walloped in Russia scandal
The president has been noticeably quiet as Donald Trump Jr. faces intensifying scrutiny for meeting with a Kremlin-linked lawyer during the campaign. (Nolan D. McCaskill / Politico)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:45 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Oh ffs, he really is that dumb. Revoking skepticism of 10 minutes ago.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:45 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


before his dad can fuck him? Is that what's going on here?

Missed it by THAT much.
posted by spitbull at 8:45 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't understand why these articles are focusing so little on Kushner, who after all these lies is still Senior Advisor to the President. He knew the content of the meeting, and he chose to attend the meeting.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:45 AM on July 11, 2017 [30 favorites]


Is it at all possible that the email chain as tweeted by Jr is actually somehow *less* incriminating than a full chain would be? As in, maybe he cut out *worse* things?

He tweeted the emails himself because the NYT already had access to them. If there are worse things they'll come out anyway.
posted by lydhre at 8:46 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Doesn't this give FBI/Mueller/Senate Intelligence Committee probable cause to subpoena Jr's emails?
posted by chris24 at 8:46 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Okay as much as I'm ready for this administration to die in a giant fire, I'm also about to put my house on the market so if we could just maintain civilization until after I close escrow that would be appreciated.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


Is it at all possible that the email chain as tweeted by Jr is actually somehow *less* incriminating than a full chain would be? As in, maybe he cut out *worse* things?

He definitely cut off the very, very lengthy section about adoptions. [snicker]
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


I have no idea how the email records (apparently) aren't subpoenaed up the wazoo.
posted by jaduncan at 8:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


chris24: Doesn't this give FBI/Mueller/Senate Intelligence Committee probable cause to subpoena Jr's emails?

If they hadn't already.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


From the New York Times article: After being told that The Times was about to publish the content of the emails, instead of responding to a request for comment, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted out images of them himself on Tuesday.

What? What fucking idiot thought that could possibly think that was a good idea? They think they can control the narrative of this story?


Joking aside, this actually makes sense if you believe that the only aim of the "fake media" is to attract customers and make money. News orgs live and die by the scoop, right? So what better way to counterattack than to defang their hot new story by beating them to the punch? From that point of view, with no other considerations at all, releasing the emails makes perfect sense. Of course, you'd have to be a complete imbecile to even think such a thing, but here we are.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [31 favorites]


> I don't understand why these articles are focusing so little on Kushner

Because when it's raining shit it's very difficult to focus on one particular turd.

If any thing about Trump's administration were happening in isolation in any other administration there would be a lot more circling back but like, when it just won't stop how do you even know where to hold your umbrella?
posted by Tevin at 8:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


I think Michael Pence is involved in covering up collusion and that his "Aww shucks guy, they lied to me!" schtick is total bullshit.

So do I, but I want to see a smoking gun.

Fortunately, even if Pence is smart enough (doubtful) to avoid providing that himself, I'm sure six other clowns in the administration will helpfully provide them by summarizing conversations and cc:ing him on the emails.

Also, I want President Pelosi.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


And I, for one, welcome our new President, Mike Pence. I'd like to remind him that as a trusted MetaFilter personality, I can be helpful in making sure that he doesn't serve any more than the rest of his term.
posted by Talez at 8:48 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


This is DJTjr crying out "BUT HER EMAILS!!"

I'm sure once we understand it was all Hillary he will be carried on our shoulders as a hero.
posted by readery at 8:48 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Here's a picture of the gun, here's a picture of me holding the gun, here's a picture of me shooting the guy, here's a picture of the gun smoking, and here's a picture of me and all my friends laughing over the corpse"

The revolting pic of Jr with the dead elephant has suddenly become so beautifully metaphorical, I hope.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:49 AM on July 11, 2017 [28 favorites]


This is yet another scoop that the New York Times got to before Kushner's rival Observer. Lazy!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:49 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


At one point do you think the Russians realized they won't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed?
posted by drezdn at 8:49 AM on July 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


The fact that this was in plain text and stored email(!) just makes me think the rest of it is a bonanza.
posted by jaduncan at 8:49 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Life caught up with The Simpsons again, didn't it. This is right out of Sideshow Bob's Fraud Logs when he rigged the mayoral election and confessed in court thinking it somehow absolved him.
posted by Servo5678 at 8:50 AM on July 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


I think John Goodman is the obvious choice for Donald Trump in my imagined Coen Brothers White House Caper Comedy about this dumb bunch of chucklefucks.
posted by Cookiebastard at 8:50 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


At one point do you think the Russians realized they won't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed?

Pretty early on, I'm guessing.
posted by Melismata at 8:50 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


"BUT HER EMAILS!!"

As mighty as Trump's Razor is, do not underestimate the power of Trump's Mirror.
posted by chris24 at 8:50 AM on July 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


At one point do you think the Russians realized they won't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed?

They don't care - the damage is done, and is still being done, undermining the US to levels above what they could have ever wished for, especially if Hillary was president now.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:51 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think in Don Jr.'s mind, one line of defense is something like "but nothing came of the meeting". Which only reminds me of the time when Sideshow Bob calls into a Rush Limbaugh radio program from jail saying: "I'm in jail for a crime I didn't commit. 'Attempted murder', now honestly what is that? Do they give a Nobel prize for 'attempted chemistry'?"

Also, from that statement he attached, it's quite clear that he's his father's son when he drops in a line like "Emin and his father have a very highly respected company in Moscow." Lol, "very highly respected." Also why is "Political Opposition Research" capitalized?

Meanwhile, do we know how the NYT got this email chain in the first place? Most of the email chain looks to be just between Don Jr. and Rob Goldstone... except the very last one that Don Jr. posted which was a forward to Jared and Paul Manafort letting them know that the meeting time got changed. So, it seems like the choices are: 1) Jared, 2) Manafort, or 3) a leak from some investigatory body that has access (subpoenas?) to these emails.

on preview: jinx on the Simpsons ref
posted by mhum at 8:51 AM on July 11, 2017 [16 favorites]


America's Dad bringing the heat:

Kaine: Russia Investigation ‘Potentially’ Moving Into ‘Treason’ Territory (Esme Cribb, TPM)
“We’re now beyond obstruction of justice, in terms of what’s being investigated,” the former vice presidential nominee said on MSNBC. “This is moving into perjury, false statements, and even into potentially treason.”
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:51 AM on July 11, 2017 [34 favorites]


@drezdn: 2013
posted by gucci mane at 8:51 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


I want to see King, Wyden, and Harris just shred this douchebag in an open Senate Intel Hearing.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:52 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


At one point do you think the Russians realized they won't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed?

Certainly not after the point where they intentionally left the family implicated. It slightly astonishes me (well, very slightly) that neither Russia nor the Trump campaign bothered with cutouts. From the Russians, I'd imagine this meeting is also designed to be kompromat, they aren't idiots. From the Trumps? 99.9% sure it's Trump's Razor.
posted by jaduncan at 8:52 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


That office is held by Yury Yakovlevich Chaika, a Putin appointee who is known to be close to Ms. Veselnitskaya.

Chaika (Seagull) is the name of a play by Anton Chekhov.
posted by orrnyereg at 8:52 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm a little bit serious about this: but is there a country to which the entire Trump klan could go to for exile? Not Russia. I think Putin may be done with them.
Maybe North Korea.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:52 AM on July 11, 2017


Kaine: Russia Investigation ‘Potentially’ Moving Into ‘Treason’ Territory

Does two tweets count as two witnesses, or is Twitter "open court" so you only need one?
posted by Etrigan at 8:53 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Baku, Azerbaijan. They just built a Trump Tower there and there is no extradition treaty.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:54 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


This is an open challenge to the question of whether or not we are still a nation of laws. Will indictments be handed down? Will congressional Republicans continue to stand by this treasonous White House?
posted by Existential Dread at 8:55 AM on July 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


White House officials, lawyer are advising Trump not to comment on Don, Jr. reports

People. I don't think we realize what we're sitting on here. We're finally going to know what happens when the irresistible force meets the immovable object.
posted by Talez at 8:55 AM on July 11, 2017 [79 favorites]


Jared Kushner got the President's Daily Briefing today. And yesterday. And tomorrow.

And every Republican is perfectly fine with it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:56 AM on July 11, 2017 [38 favorites]


Say it's 2018, you're a Republican running in a normally safe district, say a +5. How do you solve a problem like the Trump administration? Remember, there's almost no chance impeachment has happened yet in the House. Do you just distance yourself, or actively run against him? Remember, your voters include the deplorables, but the moderates you need to win all hate Trump. Your opponent will be spending the entire campaign railing against corruption and treason, calling for impeachment, and trying to trap you into taking a position.

That's a very tough needle to thread. I almost feel bad for them.

No, I actually don't.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:56 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


White House officials, lawyer are advising Trump not to comment on Don, Jr. reports

28 tweets from Trump since this story first broke and not one defending Jr.
posted by chris24 at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


Chaika (Seagull) is the name of a play by Anton Chekhov.

Is it still a Chekhov's gun if it's fired in the first act?
posted by Talez at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [12 favorites]




Never feel bad for them.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


god i hope fredo gets to testify in front of the senate intelligence committee. it'd be like getting brad pitt's character in burn after reading up there
posted by murphy slaw at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


> Remember, your voters include the deplorables, but the moderates you need to win all hate Trump.

Hate? Citation needed. As in, maybe they respond "no" to an approval poll, but do they "hate" Trump more than they hate a tax increase to pay for healthcare?
posted by tonycpsu at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


@JYSexton: "I...worked on this story for a year...and...he just...he tweeted it out."
posted by bibliowench at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [100 favorites]


Does two tweets count as two witnesses, or is Twitter "open court" so you only need one?

Plenty of people in that meeting. You think they'll hang together under FBI pressure and/or IC information on whatever other stuff is in their file from before? Manafort was a Putin asset for a decade, there's no way there isn't an extremely large file on him. Likewise Kushner has however the Chinese overpriced buyout was set up, and DJT has his entire 1990s money laundering past. There's a lot of pressure there.
posted by jaduncan at 8:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


They weren’t acting in their formal roles as representatives of the Trump campaign and Russian government.

They weren’t wearing tuxedos.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:58 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Maybe a more apt depiction of Trump, Jr. is the son of Buford T. Justice from Smokey and the Bandit.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:58 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


We also now know what the Times guy's "I'm still reporting" tweet from last night meant.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:59 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


28 tweets from Trump since this story broke and not one defending Jr.

Why would he? This is the guy who showed up at Jr.'s dorm room, didn't say a word, slapped him to the ground, and told him to put on a suit.

He's a piece of shit to his kids, just like everyone else.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:59 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


Couldn't think of a better week for the Royal family to disintegrate in stupidity and derail anything the GOP was trying to get done.
posted by rc3spencer at 8:59 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


How do you solve a problem like the Trump administration?

How do you catch a Tweet and pin it down?
posted by Talez at 8:59 AM on July 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


This chain of tweets (image of tweets) by Jared Yates Sexton is poignantly funny:

I worked on this story for a year ... and ... he just ... he tweeted it out.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:59 AM on July 11, 2017 [23 favorites]


I just want Trump to tweet "I've abandoned my boy!"
posted by drezdn at 9:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


That's a very tough needle to thread. I almost feel bad for them.

Remember the so-called "Tea Party" election of 2010, when feckless Democrats -- but I repeat myself -- ran away from Obama and the ACA? Democrats need to hang Trump's incompetence and treason around the necks of every single potential Republican opponent -- yes, even Paul Ryan, thank you, "gentleman's agreements" be damned -- and force them to either stand by someone they know is a potential criminal, when they don't know what other shoes will drop, or publicly denounce the standardbearer of the Republican Party in front of their own base.

I don't feel a bit sorry for any of them. Hold their feet to the fire. They enabled Trump this far. They have sown the wind; let them reap the whirlwind, and in spades.
posted by Gelatin at 9:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


if we live through this, the tell-all books and movies are gonna be A-MAZ-ING
posted by entropicamericana at 9:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Jared Yates Sexton is going to get a Pulitzer for that series of tweets.
posted by pjenks at 9:02 AM on July 11, 2017 [21 favorites]


They stole Obama's Supreme Court pick so a traitor could fill it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:03 AM on July 11, 2017 [54 favorites]


Is someone working on a new thread? This story is not going to slow down.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:04 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just want Trump to tweet "I've abandoned my boy!"

"I don't have a son named Donald. You may be thinking of my daughter named Tiffany 2"
posted by Talez at 9:06 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


entropicamericana: if we live through this, the tell-all books and movies are gonna be A-MAZ-ING

I'm imagining competing books and movies, each purporting to be the true story of what went down. Possibly told by different members of the Trump family.

Speaking of the Trump family, is there any chance that the family line could end here? All the kids are relatively young, but what if the family line ended here?

I'd even take the Trump brand being synonymous with corruption and greed, instead of wealth and glamor or whatever image it is that banks didn't want those Trump-branded buildings and companies to lose.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:06 AM on July 11, 2017


I worked on this story for a year ... and ... he just ... he tweeted it out.

If it makes him feel better, he wouldn't have just tweeted it out without that year of work.
posted by chris24 at 9:06 AM on July 11, 2017 [29 favorites]


NYT Breaking News banner:
Trump Jr. on Russians’ Offer: ‘I Love It’

I had work that I needed to get done today.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:06 AM on July 11, 2017 [36 favorites]


My big question is who is leaking this story? And in the most damaging dripdripdrip way possible?

Patriots?
posted by leotrotsky at 9:08 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's The Art of the Deal in action!

But seriously, I used to play a lot of poker. And I've written here before about how much I enjoyed taking money and confidence away from a certain type of poker player: entitled douches wearing sunglasses and hoodies who underestimated this middle-aged white woman. At the low stakes games where I played, it was often possible to predict the suckers in advance. They identified as poker players (and even as future pros "once they got their bankroll up") rather than whatever they did to pay the rent. I always asked them which players they admired that I should study (usually they cited guys like Phil Hellmuth) for insights into how they would play, a gambit they usually didn't recognize in their eagerness to show off knowledge and school me.

Anyway, in addition to being money-laundering criminals who know nothing about government and disdain outside expertise, law and ethics, these Trump guys all identify as deal-makers, because that's how you please the old man. Dealmaking is different than being transactional in approach, because it's a macho orientation and promotes a specific risk-drunk culture. Dealmakers wear cowboy hats; transaction types wear green eyeshades. Dealmaking encompasses seeking angles and advantages and exploiting whatever weaknesses the other side has, including the assumption that you're honorable and truthful. An interest in "doing deals" as an end to itself and identity signifier is lethal, because it values being freewheeling, acting on intuition rather than data, speed over caution, etc. Incorporating that into your family or business or campaign culture is even worse. And when wealth and privilege paper over your mistakes, the mystique of "the art of the deal" (as well as overconfidence) grows. Risk-drunks love the game and find it truly intoxicating, like adrenaline junkies. They believe in magic and, especially, the magic touch.

Dealmakers, like poker players, evidence an intentional and deliberate devotion to managing their own confidence. They won't look hard at failures or ascribe them to exogenous factors without thinking about how/whether they should have identified then this time or can avoid them next time. Hence the arrogance that blinds them to long range consequences.

In the case of the Trump Organization, it's easy to hate both the players and the game.
posted by carmicha at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [86 favorites]


All the kids are relatively young, but what if the family line ended here?

Ivanka has three kids.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


My big question is who is leaking this story? And in the most damaging dripdripdrip way possible?

Manafort and Kushner got the email forwarded to them. Kushner's father entrapped his brother-in-law when he was about to go down, so...
posted by chris24 at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


More from Jared Yates Sexton, who broke this in the NYT:
>This isn't the smoking gun. It's the tip of the barrel of the smoking gun.
The next step is the story about how Manafort figured into this meeting, and how that relationship got him control of the campaign.
For journalists: start asking how Manafort got control of the campaign and whether it came with any assurances.
Did Manafort arrange these meetings? Was there an assurance that he could guarantee Russian help in exchange for sanctions and platform?
posted by stonepharisee at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [43 favorites]


I'm imagining competing books and movies, each purporting to be the true story of what went down. Possibly told by different members of the Trump family.

Like The Three Stooges getting the Rashomon treatment.
posted by mcdoublewide at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


My big question is who is leaking this story? And in the most damaging dripdripdrip way possible?

you mean besides the president's idiot son?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:09 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


Oh, and hang the Republican atrocity of a health care bill around their necks -- "Republicans want to take your health insurance away so they can give the rich a tax cut."
posted by Gelatin at 9:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


I bet Hillary is having a fucking GREAT day today.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [25 favorites]


My big question is who is leaking this story? And in the most damaging dripdripdrip way possible?

Ivanka. You don't become the Golden Child without being an expert at throwing your siblings (or husband) under the bus.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


Okay, Buford T. Justice's son was named Junior. The actor, Mike Henry, also played Donald Penobscott, Hot Lips' husband on M*A*S*H (TV).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]




They stole Obama's Supreme Court pick so a traitor could fill it.

Reason enough to impeach him. (Gorsuch, but Trump too, for that matter.)
posted by Gelatin at 9:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Hill: "There's an awful lot more [intelligence] than that's even in the public domain," Rep. Schiff (R-CA) said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


Ivanka. You don't become the Golden Child without being an expert at throwing your siblings (or husband) under the bus.

Yeah, it's totally Jared and Ivanka trying to save their own asses/reputations. Or worse case, not go down alone.
posted by chris24 at 9:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


At one point do you think the Russians realized they won't dealing with the sharpest tools in the shed?

Can't find a supporting link at the moment — if you recall the source and can link it, please do! — but I seem to remember a story from several months ago discussing how the Russian government believed at one point in 2016 that Trump would not be allowed to continue as the Republican nominee. This would have been around the time of his Khan-family-insult-fest / second-amendment-solution-to-President-Hillary-comment / Russia-if-you're-listening-please-release-some-hacked-emails meltdown period last summer.

I think they were like, "Holy cow, this guy is unhinged, there is no way the Republican Party will allow him to remain their standard-bearer," and they may even have momentarily dialed back their influence campaign. And then they were like, "Oh, okay, I guess this is just the way things go there now."
posted by compartment at 9:12 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


This story, from 57 minutes ago, did not age well:

Trump's low-level Russian connection
posted by pjenks at 9:14 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


The reporter @JYSexton: Is it possible Trump Jr thinks he didn't do anything wrong?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:14 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


I bet Hillary is having a fucking GREAT day today.

Here's the Secretary's latest tweet: Support Samantha Bee & Planned Parenthood & buy a Nasty Woman t-shirt!

(Image of Hillary Clinton holding up a Nasty Woman shirt. She's not wearing make up, and as a chick who does not normally wear make up, I think it's totally rad. I ain't got no regrets about campaigning for her.)
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:15 AM on July 11, 2017 [41 favorites]


@kylegriffin1: REMINDER: Don Jr. July 24, 2016. On the Clinton campaign's claims that the Russians were helping Trump: "It's disgusting. It's so phony."
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:16 AM on July 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


I can only assume that Don Jr is going to come back in a couple of hours and say "I got hacked"
posted by Talez at 9:17 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


I really don't understand what Don Trump Jr. thinks he accomplishing by tweeting out those emails.
posted by notyou at 9:18 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]




Is someone working on a new thread? This story is not going to slow down.

I'll make a new thread. If anyone has a wonderful title suggestion, please toss it my way.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:20 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


How expensive would it be to keep mailing prepaid smartphones to the white house with twitter installed so Trump has an outlet?
posted by Nanukthedog at 9:21 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Treason in Trump Tower? It's alliterative...
posted by Gelatin at 9:21 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'll make a new thread. If anyone has a wonderful title suggestion, please toss it my way.

BUT HIS EMAILS!
posted by chris24 at 9:21 AM on July 11, 2017 [36 favorites]


7-11?
posted by rc3spencer at 9:22 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


Talking Points Memo: Sen. Cruz (R-TX) says the real culprit is Barack Obama

Time and time again these fuckers' only defense of this campaign and administration is that other campaigns and administrations also did things that they disapproved of. That is not a defense. That's a non-sequitur. It's a useful way of putting off acknowledgement that you've been an enabling part of something monstrous.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:22 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'll make a new thread. If anyone has a wonderful title suggestion, please toss it my way.

Donald Trump Jr: "Hold my beer."
posted by Talez at 9:22 AM on July 11, 2017 [40 favorites]


I really don't understand what Don Trump Jr. thinks he accomplishing by tweeting out those emails.

I think it's a mixture of thinking he did nothing wrong, denying the NYT the scoop, and the 'strategy of "no one would be so stupid as to admit such serious wrongdoing, therefore what he did couldn't have been wrong."

I fully expect that to be a Republican talking point: "look, Trump Jr has been fully open and transparent about this (unlike Hillary!) and we just need to move past it. The election is over, and we need to focus on the future."
posted by jedicus at 9:23 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


I dunno, the "It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster" headline is the gift that keeps on giving...
posted by Melismata at 9:23 AM on July 11, 2017 [17 favorites]


That is not a defense. That is a non-sequitur. It's a useful way of putting off acknowledgement that you've been an enabling part of something monstrous.

It's also enabling something monstrous if the so-called "liberal media" pretends it is a defense (I'm looking at you, NPR).
posted by Gelatin at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


I really don't understand what Don Trump Jr. thinks he accomplishing by tweeting out those emails.

Someone in MSNBC just said that he released them himself ahead of the NYT releasing them.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I can only assume that Don Jr is going to come back in a couple of hours and say "I got hacked"

Tonight, Don Jr to appear on Hannity!
posted by Mister Bijou at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2017


@kylegriffin1: REMINDER: Don Jr. July 24, 2016. On the Clinton campaign's claims that the Russians were helping Trump: "It's disgusting. It's so phony."

"And the portions were so small!"
posted by drezdn at 9:24 AM on July 11, 2017 [19 favorites]


Gelatin: I don't feel a bit sorry for any of them. Hold their feet to the fire. They enabled Trump this far. They have sown the wind; let them reap the whirlwind, and in spades.

Me neither. You broke it, you own it. Hold every last one of them accountable, from the VP and Paul Ryan on down to city council, transit board, and dog catcher.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:25 AM on July 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Thread Dawn?
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:26 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'll make a new thread. If anyone has a wonderful title suggestion, please toss it my way.

"There's a good chance I may have committed some light treason."
posted by melissasaurus at 9:26 AM on July 11, 2017 [48 favorites]


filthy light thief: Speaking of the Trump family, is there any chance that the family line could end here? All the kids are relatively young, but what if the family line ended here?

soren_lorensen: Ivanka has three kids.

Trump has five children and eight grandchildren. Five by Donald Trump, Jr. and three by Ivanka.
posted by zarq at 9:26 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


If anyone has a wonderful title suggestion, please toss it my way.

I knew it was you, Fredo.
posted by drezdn at 9:27 AM on July 11, 2017 [20 favorites]


So the email had to come from either Kushner or Manafort, right? The most recent email in the thread (presumably before it was forwarded to the Times) has them in the To: Field. Goldstone would not have had that portion of the thread.
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:28 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump has five children and eight grandchildren. Five by Donald Trump, Jr. and three by Ivanka.

And how many by accident?
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Reynolds Goldstone Pamphlet
posted by 0xFCAF at 9:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


"BUT HER EMAILS!!" As mighty as Trump's Razor is, do not underestimate the power of Trump's Mirror.

On 9 June 2016, while Junior, Kush, and Manafort were meeting with Russians in Trump Tower, Donnie was tweeting " ... where are your 33,000 emails that you deleted?"

GOP Researcher Who Sought Clinton Emails Had Alt-Right Help

Includes references to well-known scumbags such as Charles Johnson, Pax Dickinson, Weev, and Alex Jones.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is it possible Trump Jr thinks he didn't do anything wrong?

Maybe he thinks "Not guilty by reason of stupidity" is a thing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:29 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


SURELY... ah fuck you know what? I'm sorry. I'm still out.

By releasing the his own emails (assuming "I got hacked" isn't tweeted soon) sans media outlets to guide the narrative, Trumpists, true GOPers, Democrats, Libertarians; every one can read the phrase "Russian government attorney" and depending on their personal bias, see what they want to see.

I can already hear the objections:

"What's wrong with meeting a government official?"

"They're just meeting, freedom of assembly is in the constitution."

"They were just going to discuss adoption." (Ugh.)

"I read the email on the twitter and the media blew it all out of proportion."
posted by fragmede at 9:30 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


> The Reynolds Goldstone Pamphlet

I'm sitting at my desk with lunch and the thread, and I still can't get over the gob-smacking stupidity of tweeting out the emails.

WHAT.

WHAT WAS HE THINKING.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:30 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


"Is You Clickin' Reply-All on a Criminal F**kin' Conspiracy?"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:30 AM on July 11, 2017 [44 favorites]


> “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”
[...]
He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”


That's it. That's the whole enchilada.

And after that Trump fired Comey.

And told the Russians that he felt it took the pressure off.

That's the beginning, middle, and end right there for an impeachment case.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:33 AM on July 11, 2017 [33 favorites]


Three Men and a Little Treason
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:35 AM on July 11, 2017 [13 favorites]


Speaking of the Trump family, is there any chance that the family line could end here? All the kids are relatively young, but what if the family line ended here?

Oh, the family line will go on, but from now on they'll pronounce the name as "FRONK-en-steen"
posted by Captain l'escalier at 9:35 AM on July 11, 2017 [24 favorites]


Someone better-equipped than me could probably make this the basis of a fantastic FPP.

Cecilia Saixue Watt, Guardian: Redneck Revolt: the armed leftwing group that wants to stamp out fascism
The cookout offered free food, a face-painting booth and a “protest sign-making station” – a pile of cut-up cardboard boxes, paint markers and rolls of packing tape. A group of neighborhood boys, each no older than 12, gathered around. They wanted signs to tape to their bicycles, so they could ride around and “tell Trump” what they thought of him.

One grabbed a piece of cardboard and wrote in big letters: “TRUMP’S A BITCH.”

Max Neely quickly stepped in.

“I’m not sure you should use that word,” he said, his voice taking on a fatherly tone. At 6ft2in, he towered over them. “That word isn’t very respectful to women, and there are a lot of women around here today that we should be respecting. Maybe you can think of another word to use.”

The boys conferred. Eventually, they settled on a different, less offensive protest sign – at least in Neely’s eyes. “FUCK TRUMP,” it read, followed by four exclamation points.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:36 AM on July 11, 2017 [73 favorites]


Natalia Veselnitskaya and the Exacerbation of Omnigate
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:36 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sebastian Gorka:

The deputy assistant to President Donald Trump said Tuesday the Trump campaign's attempts to get compromising information on Hillary Clinton are "what political campaigns do."
posted by Autumnheart at 9:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


We had a post on Redneck Revolt a little bit ago.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:37 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


You've Got Treason
posted by uosuaq at 9:38 AM on July 11, 2017 [14 favorites]


I do wonder where this leaves Sessions, if the DoJ has to act on prima face evidence of collusion and collaboration and he's still recused from matters Russian.

I know where it should leave him, of course.
posted by Devonian at 9:39 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


I think I understand now: the Trump administration denies that their campaign colluded with the Russians because "colluding with the Russians" is not something that anyone is physically capable of doing, ever. That's pretty water-tight I gotta say
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:39 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


Can't think of a better time to have dropped this article:

The Intercept will be supporting Reality Winner's defense

Oh, and, their internal review has completed, finding that: "at several points in the editorial process, our practices fell short of the standards to which we hold ourselves for minimizing the risks of source exposure when handling anonymously provided materials."
posted by pjenks at 9:39 AM on July 11, 2017 [20 favorites]




Smells to me like the Intercept is desperately trying to gain back the trust of sources. (Fuck the Intercept)
posted by Yowser at 9:42 AM on July 11, 2017 [7 favorites]


Next thread title suggestion:

For you, it was the day he implicated his entire family in a criminal conspiracy, for him, it was a Tuesday.
posted by drezdn at 9:43 AM on July 11, 2017 [19 favorites]


This should be an excellent advertising opportunity for Google. If Trump Jr was using Google's G Suite instead of Exchange the Gmail spam filter would have stopped an email with the subject line "Re: Russia - Clinton - private and confidential" ever reaching his inbox and preventing him from committing some light treason.
posted by Talez at 9:43 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


For you, it was the day he implicated his entire family in a criminal conspiracy, for him, it was a Tuesday.

Ah, M. Bison. Now there's an autocrat who could get things done!
posted by Servo5678 at 9:44 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Intercept really fucked Winner over. Greenwald is entirely culpable for this mess she's in. There's no way anyone should ever trust him to protect a source again.
posted by bonehead at 9:45 AM on July 11, 2017 [15 favorites]


More from Jared Yates Sexton, who broke this in the NYT:

Is this true? I don't see his byline.
posted by Mothlight at 9:45 AM on July 11, 2017


More from Jared Yates Sexton, who broke this in the NYT:

Is this true? I don't see his byline.

On Twitter he said no, he was not reporting this for the NYT. Doing it on his own as an independent journalist.
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:47 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


For you, it was the day he implicated his entire family in a criminal conspiracy, for him, it was a Tuesday.

"Many years later, as he stood before the Judge, Junior would remember the day his father took him to discover the Russians."
posted by octobersurprise at 9:48 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]








Many of these people had plenty of time to comment on Obama's choice of mustard.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:52 AM on July 11, 2017 [54 favorites]


Every Republican "no comment" is affirmatively approving of treason.

Democrats should preface every further interaction from now until forever with "the treasonous Republican Party" or "the treasonous Republican President" and "my treasonous Republican opponent".
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:52 AM on July 11, 2017 [26 favorites]


Maybe Lil' Donnie thinks the world works like Scooby Doo, where the moment the gang figures out you're the one responsible for the Russian Spooks haunting the DNC, you're obligated to recount the plan and fill in details for the kids watching at home.
posted by Slap*Happy at 9:53 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


For a Fredo-related title:

"I can handle things! I'm smart! Not like everybidy says, like...dumb!"

Also, apropro of nothing in particular today, I think the title of First Lady should be revoked. She doesnt even want it, and it's a slap in the face to every other woman who put aside her own aspirations to support her husband and try to make this country a little better.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:55 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]




Katy Tur on MSNBC is reciting the Spring 2016 story that Paul Manafort was brought into the campaign to help wrangle delagates at the RNC. In hindsight, doesn't it seem more likely that Manafort's decade of representation of Russian interests in Ukraine was his key attribute?
posted by pjenks at 9:57 AM on July 11, 2017 [8 favorites]


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: The Washington Post annotates the emails
Donald Trump Jr. posted his full exchange with a publicist for a Russian pop musician to Twitter on Tuesday, and the emails confirm previous reports that Trump Jr. was offered compromising information about Hillary Clinton specifically from the Russian government. The emails also say flatly that the Kremlin was working to help elect his father -- claims which Trump Jr., his father and the White House would deny for months afterward.
Emphasis mine. Let's see how the White House spins this one.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:58 AM on July 11, 2017 [18 favorites]


Here's a strategy:
1. Spend a year loudly proclaiming that The New York Times publishes Fake News.
2. Pre-empt a damaging New York Times story by confirming it 100% on your personal Twitter account.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:58 AM on July 11, 2017 [55 favorites]


Let's see how the White House spins this one.

"But what about black on black crime" has historically been a good deflect for republicans. Trump will tweet about crime in Chicago or something similar soon.
posted by Groundhog Week at 10:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [11 favorites]




Hi. How's everyone doing? Took me a bit to catch up with the news and then the thread, so I took it all in a fairly large dose, and, uh, WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING, HOW CAN THIS POSSIBLY BE HAPPENING?

Trump's Razor really never fails. It's the absolute stupidest possible explanation, and it happened, and Don Jr. revealed it in the stupidest possible way.
posted by zachlipton at 10:03 AM on July 11, 2017 [28 favorites]


WHAT WAS HE THINKING.

My guess: This is an effort to deflect blame to himself, thereby giving his father plausible deniability ("yes, we did this but we never told him") and saving him from prison.

Alternately: he's really that stupid.
posted by anastasiav at 10:03 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: oh no lindsay graham has concernz
"Anytime you're in a campaign and you get an offer from a foreign government to help your campaign, the answer is no," Graham told reporters.

"So I don't know what Mr. Trump Jr.'s version of the facts are. Definitely — he has to testify. That email is disturbing."
Sounds like he has more than concerns. Public testimony means that Dems can ask real questions, while GOP gobshites can sit and spin.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:04 AM on July 11, 2017 [11 favorites]


Josh Marshall, TPM: Look At The Timeline

Read the whole thing - it's one damning thing after another. Here's one tiny bit:

May 26th, 2016: Donald J. Trump officially secure majority of GOP delegates, officially clinching the nomination of the Republican party.

June 9th, 2016: Donald Trump, Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort meet with Natalia Veselnitskaya. Trump agreed to take the meeting after being told ... that Veselnitskaya had damaging information about Hillary Clinton which came from a Russian government operation to help his father Donald J. Trump.

June 12th, 2016: Julian Assange first announces that Wikileaks has Clinton emails which are soon to be released.


And then:

June 27th, 2016: First hacked DNC emails posted to “DCLeaks” website.

July 11th-12th, 2016: Trump campaign officials intervene to remove language calling for providing Ukraine with lethal aid against Russian intervention is Crimea and eastern Ukraine. It is, reportedly, the only significant Trump campaign intervention in the platform in which the Trump campaign has allowed activists a free hand.


Maybe we can see why Trump felt like the FBI looking at Russia was putting a lot of pressure on him?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:05 AM on July 11, 2017 [22 favorites]


Josh Marshall has updated his timeline
The critical addition of the Don Jr meeting fits right into a critical period when what we understand were Russian intelligence operatives were trying various vehicles to surface emails that were stolen during the spring.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:05 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


This is great and all, BUT FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS PURE AND SACRED DON'T TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THIS PARTICULAR BALL that's come out of a joint New York Times/Pro Publica investigation.

NYT link: The Deep Industry Ties of Trump’s Deregulation Teams

Pro Publica link: We’ve found many appointees with potential conflicts of interest, including two who might personally profit if particular regulations are undone

President Trump entered office pledging to cut red tape, and within weeks, he ordered his administration to assemble teams to aggressively scale back government regulations.

But the effort — a signature theme in Trump’s populist campaign for the White House — is being conducted in large part out of public view and often by political appointees with deep industry ties and potential conflicts.

Most government agencies have declined to disclose information about their deregulation teams. But ProPublica and The New York Times identified 71 appointees, including 28 with potential conflicts, through interviews, public records and documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

Some appointees are reviewing rules their previous employers sought to weaken or kill, and at least two may be positioned to profit if certain regulations are undone.

posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:06 AM on July 11, 2017 [52 favorites]


Lindsay Smith: when you think you're the Corleones but you're really the Bluths

Don Jr.: I've made a huge mistake.
posted by stopgap at 10:07 AM on July 11, 2017 [41 favorites]


This is leaping past the Too Unrealistic To Be An Adam Sandler Movie event horizon.
posted by delfin at 10:08 AM on July 11, 2017 [10 favorites]


This is also a hell of a story. NYT: Trump Aides Recruited Businessmen to Devise Options for Afghanistan

I think I watched close to two hours of news and political programming last night after getting home late and didn't even notice this mentioned, which is emblematic of the insanity of the era. (Though I missed a big chunk of The Rachel Maddow Show, which must have covered it.)

Much of the Russian conquest of Central Asia during the past few centuries essentially involved detached Imperial Russian military commanders and Cossack hosts carving out their own little feudal kingdoms, so turning Afghanistan over to "private military contractors" in the 21st century we would be following in well-trod steps.
posted by XMLicious at 10:10 AM on July 11, 2017 [3 favorites]


The New Thread is live!
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:11 AM on July 11, 2017 [24 favorites]


It's too much, even for 2017.

(Although, this is really a 2016 thing that's just unwinding now so maybe there's a chance for 2017 to redeem itself.)
posted by notyou at 10:12 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Talking Points Memo: Sen. Cruz (R-TX) says the real culprit is Barack Obama"


Party of Personal Responsibility, as long as that person is Barack Obama.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:12 AM on July 11, 2017 [22 favorites]




Sen. Hatch says DJT Jr story "overblown." I asked if he would take a similar meeting advertised as Russian help for his own campaign. "No!"

More wise words from Sen. Hatch: "I think one of the things that endears the president to me is how nice his children are and they all love him. He divorced their mothers and they loved him." What is this even? How is this part of a response to the present situation?

The Daily Show has updated the This Is Fine image to reflect the present situation.
posted by zachlipton at 10:14 AM on July 11, 2017 [9 favorites]


Don Jr.: I've made a huge mistake.

Don Jr., later: I've never admitted to a mistake, what would I have made a mistake about?

Kushner: I have the worst f*cking attorneys.

Ivanka: They can't convict a husband and wife for the same crime!

Eric: Obviously, this blue part is the land.

Tiffany: [not pictured]

Watching Arrested Development obsessively in college was, in retrospect, better preparation for our country's future than most of my coursework.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:14 AM on July 11, 2017 [69 favorites]


I can't wait to see Alyssa Rosenberg's review of The Trump Show for this week.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:28 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


"the treasonous Republican Party"

I have long advocated for Democrats to refer to it as "the Republic Party" as a norm, to make a point about the "Democrat Party" bullshit.
posted by spitbull at 10:38 AM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have long advocated for Democrats to refer to it as "the Republic Party" as a norm, to make a point about the "Democrat Party" bullshit.

Given their voter suppression tactics, perhaps "the Undemocratic Party" would be a better moniker.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:48 AM on July 11, 2017 [4 favorites]


refer to it as "the Republic Party" as a norm

I really feel we should call them by the name they've chosen for themselves:
Еди́ная Росси́я, tr. Yedinaya Rossiya; IPA: [(j)ɪˈdʲinəjə rɐˈsʲijə]
posted by dirge at 10:58 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Because when it's raining shit it's very difficult to focus on one particular turd.

I would very much like this on a t-shirt. Or a bumper sticker.
posted by yoga at 11:01 AM on July 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


I know, I know, you all have moved on but my sense of the norms keeps me from quoting & responding to a message in the new post.

This is Seth Rogan in collaboration with the Coen Brothers with some David Lynch in the mix.

I feel like this is more a collaboration between Robert Ben Garant/Thomas Lennon/Kerri Kenney-Silver (Reno 911) and Jay Chandrasekhar (Super Troopers), with a bit of Barry Levinson (Wag the Dog) thrown in. But only a bit, since Conrad Brean was competent.
posted by phearlez at 11:45 AM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


HackedOffHugh????
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:16 PM on July 11, 2017


who invented the term nothingburger? I remember seeing for the first time here on the blue. watching Gorka throw it around on these morning news shows makes me want to punch his nazi face repeatedly and then vomit on it
posted by numaner at 12:24 PM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hugh Grant is heavily involved with Hacked Off, a Campaign group working to curb some of the excesses of the British press.
posted by IanMorr at 12:31 PM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'll make a new thread. If anyone has a wonderful title suggestion, please toss it my way.

#newpost -- Free Bananas Treason in the Break Room
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:44 PM on July 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


#nextpost is already up, folks -- update your Internets accordingly.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:04 PM on July 11, 2017


Another thread down and twelve days closer to #impeachtrump!

Take heart! Also cookies! and surely somewhere in the world it's past 5pm!

🍪🍪🍸🍸🍸
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 3:03 PM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


My big question is who is leaking this story? And in the most damaging dripdripdrip way possible?

I don't know about Ivanka's involvement but I wouldn't be surprised if she emerges as the "genuinely American" female POTUS.
posted by dmh at 5:36 PM on July 11, 2017


True fact: the Ode to Joy from the 9th symphony was used as the basis for the racist apartheid-endorsing national anthem of Rhodesia.

Also used as an intro by the well known (and awesome) franco-anarcho-clown-punk band Bérurier Noir

Again, also (and the reason it's been hardwired in my brain from childhood) used as the basis for a Wizard of Oz song by the Seekers
posted by Buntix at 5:41 PM on July 11, 2017


So do I, but I want to see a smoking gun.

Fortunately, even if Pence is smart enough (doubtful) to avoid providing that himself, I'm sure six other clowns in the administration will helpfully provide them by summarizing conversations and cc:ing him on the emails.


Get out ahead of it Mike!

Pence: Hey you guys, I was just looking through my old Unread Emails. You won't believe what I found! I naturally felt compelled to report it now, as soon as I found out!
posted by ctmf at 6:52 PM on July 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94: "The Mercury News: Exclusive: San Francisco near miss might have triggered ‘greatest aviation disaster in history’"

If you ever want to be horrified, read the Wikipedia page on the Tenerife disaster. This sounds like it could have been a couple of Tenerifes.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:14 PM on July 11, 2017


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