It just doesn't matter!
July 12, 2017 8:43 PM Subscribe
Another movie MeFi reminds me I have to watch again.
posted by Samizdata at 9:41 PM on July 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Samizdata at 9:41 PM on July 12, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wrote an essay on how it's secretly a Jewish summer camp movie.
posted by maxsparber at 10:15 PM on July 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 10:15 PM on July 12, 2017 [8 favorites]
I haven't seen it in years but remember catching it on TV and thinking that as far as the counselor-on-counselor nonsense it hit solid notes. Short of the military there's not many places where down time, youth and a lack of enrichment opportunities devolves into sheer shenanigans.
Normal living: seeing a VW Thing.
Exceptional living: seeing a VW Thing on a sandbar in an alpine river.
Staff living: seeing a VW Thing blocked-up on its own unmounted tires on a sandbar after only a few hours prior using it to replace the furnishings of the program director's tent.
A followup message was sent not to mess with people friendly with the backhoe operator.
An assassination game where one player invoked a torch-and-pitchfork-bearing crowd as his mode of dispatch. Toilet destruction via the rifle range. The S+R trip where everyone was overhydrated as the result of a malice-filled hotwing home delivery...
Yes my droogies, there is much living to be had behind the curtain.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 10:36 PM on July 12, 2017
Normal living: seeing a VW Thing.
Exceptional living: seeing a VW Thing on a sandbar in an alpine river.
Staff living: seeing a VW Thing blocked-up on its own unmounted tires on a sandbar after only a few hours prior using it to replace the furnishings of the program director's tent.
A followup message was sent not to mess with people friendly with the backhoe operator.
An assassination game where one player invoked a torch-and-pitchfork-bearing crowd as his mode of dispatch. Toilet destruction via the rifle range. The S+R trip where everyone was overhydrated as the result of a malice-filled hotwing home delivery...
Yes my droogies, there is much living to be had behind the curtain.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 10:36 PM on July 12, 2017
Nothing I watched as a kid has as much of an impact on me into adulthood as the moral lesson embedded into the "It just doesn't matter" speech. It was so harsh, and yet so funny, that you knew it had to be true. It doesn't make life fairer, but it still resonates that when the playing field isn't level (and it's never level), you still just do what you do, aim for the best, and cherish your smug superiority that being weird carries its own form of winning.
Loved this film. And I think we couldn't have had Wet Hot American Summer without it.
posted by Mchelly at 4:14 AM on July 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Loved this film. And I think we couldn't have had Wet Hot American Summer without it.
posted by Mchelly at 4:14 AM on July 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Great movie reminding me of great times... Including the movie being on heavy rotation on the camp's vcr on rainy days...
I wrote an essay on how it's secretly a Jewish summer camp movie.
I went to a Jewish day camps early on and a Jewish sleep-away camp for, oh, 7 years, ( 79 - 86 ) and I concur. It's all there except the Friday evening services.
posted by mikelieman at 4:15 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I wrote an essay on how it's secretly a Jewish summer camp movie.
I went to a Jewish day camps early on and a Jewish sleep-away camp for, oh, 7 years, ( 79 - 86 ) and I concur. It's all there except the Friday evening services.
posted by mikelieman at 4:15 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
just do what you do, aim for the best, and cherish your smug superiority that being weird carries its own form of winning
Um. yeah. This.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 4:25 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Um. yeah. This.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 4:25 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
'It Just Doesn't Matter' is sometimes the perfect mantra, and our family has been using it for decades.
posted by MtDewd at 4:55 AM on July 13, 2017
posted by MtDewd at 4:55 AM on July 13, 2017
'It Just Doesn't Matter' is sometimes the perfect mantra, and our family has been using it for decades.
It became a mantra at an old job ta a startup I had when the two officers were having a lot of closed-door meetings, and the other three of us were getting nervous about the state of the company. I think once we even all crowded into someone's office and joined hands and danced around their desk chanting it.
Those were a bleak couple weeks, but that was a bright spot.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:49 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
It became a mantra at an old job ta a startup I had when the two officers were having a lot of closed-door meetings, and the other three of us were getting nervous about the state of the company. I think once we even all crowded into someone's office and joined hands and danced around their desk chanting it.
Those were a bleak couple weeks, but that was a bright spot.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:49 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
I wrote an essay on how it's secretly a Jewish summer camp movie.
Maxsparber, I think you're on to something in that essay. I'm not Jewish but spent a lot of time in that general area growing up and particularly swimming in the secret swimming hole of a Orthodox Jewish camp (only about an 30 minutes or so away from the White Pines camp). I was often fascinated by the Jewish campers I encountered - envious of their camaraderie, shared language and the seemingly endless amount of cute girls - for a French Canadian kid from a small town they seemed so exotic and cosmopolitan.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:55 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Maxsparber, I think you're on to something in that essay. I'm not Jewish but spent a lot of time in that general area growing up and particularly swimming in the secret swimming hole of a Orthodox Jewish camp (only about an 30 minutes or so away from the White Pines camp). I was often fascinated by the Jewish campers I encountered - envious of their camaraderie, shared language and the seemingly endless amount of cute girls - for a French Canadian kid from a small town they seemed so exotic and cosmopolitan.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:55 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
We must have taped it off of cable or something, because we had this on VHS and used to watch it over and over again. I was 8 or 9 years old and remember sitting down with my parents and sister and laughing our heads off.
I would hesitate to describe Meatballs as a family movie, but for us it was very much that. The scene with Wudy the wabbit the winner still makes me happy 30+ years later.
posted by AgentRocket at 7:42 AM on July 13, 2017
I would hesitate to describe Meatballs as a family movie, but for us it was very much that. The scene with Wudy the wabbit the winner still makes me happy 30+ years later.
posted by AgentRocket at 7:42 AM on July 13, 2017
This made me chuckle:
Kristine DeBell (actress, played “A.L.”): The big memory I have is how cold the water was. We had scenes where we’d be swimming, trying to make it look like it’s the middle of summer. But this was September, up in the mountains of Canada. It’s fucking freezing!
The movie was filmed in Haliburton. Hardly the..."mountains of Canada."
True fact: Meatballs is one of the top five highest-grossing Canadian films of all time. Porky's used to be number one, until My Big Fat Greek Wedding came along.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:48 AM on July 13, 2017
Kristine DeBell (actress, played “A.L.”): The big memory I have is how cold the water was. We had scenes where we’d be swimming, trying to make it look like it’s the middle of summer. But this was September, up in the mountains of Canada. It’s fucking freezing!
The movie was filmed in Haliburton. Hardly the..."mountains of Canada."
True fact: Meatballs is one of the top five highest-grossing Canadian films of all time. Porky's used to be number one, until My Big Fat Greek Wedding came along.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:48 AM on July 13, 2017
Well, I'm just disappointed that I clicked to see the comments before I clicked the link. I expected this to be about actual meatballs. They warrant an oral history, don't they?
posted by dlugoczaj at 7:53 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by dlugoczaj at 7:53 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
I was often fascinated by the Jewish campers I encountered - envious of their camaraderie, shared language and the seemingly endless amount of cute girls - for a French Canadian kid from a small town they seemed so exotic and cosmopolitan.
My wife once said hi to Mordachai Richler at a bank machine in Montreal as if she knew him personally. And it was kind of true because so many Canadians have been to Jewish Camp even if we are not Jewish and have never been to camp.
posted by srboisvert at 8:05 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
My wife once said hi to Mordachai Richler at a bank machine in Montreal as if she knew him personally. And it was kind of true because so many Canadians have been to Jewish Camp even if we are not Jewish and have never been to camp.
posted by srboisvert at 8:05 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Flush twice, it's a long way to the kitchen.
posted by dr_dank at 8:20 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by dr_dank at 8:20 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Someday I hope to be wanted for a job like Bill Murray was wanted for a job like Meatballs and Lost in Translation, where you're the only one they want for the part, everyone shows up, and hopes you do too.
source: Sophia Coppola mentions in this "Here's the Thing" broadcast that she cast Bill Murray for LIT, thought he was the only guy for the part, and basically everyone went to Japan in hopes he's show up.
posted by randomkeystrike at 8:29 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
source: Sophia Coppola mentions in this "Here's the Thing" broadcast that she cast Bill Murray for LIT, thought he was the only guy for the part, and basically everyone went to Japan in hopes he's show up.
posted by randomkeystrike at 8:29 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I have a weird relationship with this movie.
It came out right around when we moved to a new neighbourhood and a new school I hated. I saw it several times that summer, it was everywhere. One of my new classmates was actually in it (one of the kids who goes "awww" after they lose the wrestling match.) Nerdy, un-athletic and totally anxious, I obviously identified with Rudy. But the improbability of the story really bugged me: there was no cool, caring adult saviour in real life, just the shittiness of mean kids to endure while actual adults were oblivious. And it didn't seem very likely that you could suddenly become a heroic victor in some super-important milestone sporting event. (Those kids who were such assholes to him but then cheered and carried him on their shoulders when he won the race at the end? Fucking bastards.)
Later on, Chris Makepeace was in my class for 4 years of film school in the '90's. Nice guy.
posted by chococat at 8:53 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
It came out right around when we moved to a new neighbourhood and a new school I hated. I saw it several times that summer, it was everywhere. One of my new classmates was actually in it (one of the kids who goes "awww" after they lose the wrestling match.) Nerdy, un-athletic and totally anxious, I obviously identified with Rudy. But the improbability of the story really bugged me: there was no cool, caring adult saviour in real life, just the shittiness of mean kids to endure while actual adults were oblivious. And it didn't seem very likely that you could suddenly become a heroic victor in some super-important milestone sporting event. (Those kids who were such assholes to him but then cheered and carried him on their shoulders when he won the race at the end? Fucking bastards.)
Later on, Chris Makepeace was in my class for 4 years of film school in the '90's. Nice guy.
posted by chococat at 8:53 AM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
True fact: Meatballs is one of the top five highest-grossing Canadian films of all time. Porky's used to be number one, until My Big Fat Greek Wedding came along.
And two of the three you mentioned have scenes of teenage boys spying on naked teenage girls through a peephole in the shower. (It's possible My Big Fat Greek Wedding did, as well. I've never seen it.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:55 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
And two of the three you mentioned have scenes of teenage boys spying on naked teenage girls through a peephole in the shower. (It's possible My Big Fat Greek Wedding did, as well. I've never seen it.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:55 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Later on, Chris Makepeace was in my class for 4 years of film school in the '90's. Nice guy.
Good to know. I'm glad he turned out to be a better person than his co-star from My Bodyguard. (And no, I'm not referring to either Matt Dillon, Martin Mull, or Ruth Gordon.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:59 AM on July 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Good to know. I'm glad he turned out to be a better person than his co-star from My Bodyguard. (And no, I'm not referring to either Matt Dillon, Martin Mull, or Ruth Gordon.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:59 AM on July 13, 2017 [4 favorites]
Joan Cusack?
posted by Chrysostom at 9:06 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:06 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Martin Mull?
posted by maxsparber at 9:10 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by maxsparber at 9:10 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
John Houseman?
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:17 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:17 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I listen to the theme song ("Are ya ready for the summertime?") every Memorial Day weekend.
posted by kimberussell at 9:21 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by kimberussell at 9:21 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Guys. I was talking about George Wendt, who appears in the small role of "Engineer".
Oh sure, everyone says he's a swell guy... but that doesn't absolve him of the existence of Santa Buddies.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:32 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Oh sure, everyone says he's a swell guy... but that doesn't absolve him of the existence of Santa Buddies.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:32 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've actually heard Wendt is kind of a dick, but I claim no special knowledge.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:51 AM on July 13, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 9:51 AM on July 13, 2017
Oh I thought you might have been talking about Adam Baldwin.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:04 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:04 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Fuck that guy. He doesn't even deserve to be mentioned.
posted by maxsparber at 10:13 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by maxsparber at 10:13 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Ashwagandha, you were correct. Also, maxsparber has the right idea.
Back on topic:
When I first saw Wet Hot American Summer, I remember spotting many tropes from what I thought at the time must have been a long line of summer camp comedies that I had vague recollections of having watched as a child.
But in retrospect, other than Meatballs and the 1985 TV movie Poison Ivy (starring all your favorite sitcom stars!) I can't recall any other movies from my childhood that would fit the bill. Are there some other prominent summer camp movies (other than slasher flicks) that I'm forgetting?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:27 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Back on topic:
When I first saw Wet Hot American Summer, I remember spotting many tropes from what I thought at the time must have been a long line of summer camp comedies that I had vague recollections of having watched as a child.
But in retrospect, other than Meatballs and the 1985 TV movie Poison Ivy (starring all your favorite sitcom stars!) I can't recall any other movies from my childhood that would fit the bill. Are there some other prominent summer camp movies (other than slasher flicks) that I'm forgetting?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:27 AM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Little Darlings was pretty seminal. And maybe Addams Family Values (another camp that was absolutely secretly a Jewish camp).
posted by Mchelly at 11:05 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Mchelly at 11:05 AM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Looking through the IMDB there's actually not that many comedy Summer Camp movies in the 70's and early 80's. I was kind of surprised by this. Loads of horror summer camp movies though. The aforementioned Little Darlings (I had a huge crush on Kristy McNicol as a kid), the Jewish Summer camp movie GORP, the Canadian made Meatballs rip off Oddballs with Foster Brooks and Canadian stand up comedian Mike McDonald (which used to get shown on TV all the time), the TV movie Poison Ivy, the Chuck Vincent film Summer Camp, and the later Meatballs sequels... The late 80's had that Ernest movie and Orson Welles protegé Gary Graver's Party Camp.
So where do all these memories of Summer Camp movies come from? Is it all just memories of Meatballs viewed a million times growing up?
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:31 PM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
So where do all these memories of Summer Camp movies come from? Is it all just memories of Meatballs viewed a million times growing up?
posted by Ashwagandha at 12:31 PM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Not comedies, obviously, but there was also Friday the 13th and Sleepaway Camp, so maybe they add to the "every movie I remember from the early 80s was about summer camp in one way or another" thing because I too share the feeling that there were maybe more than there were.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:50 PM on July 13, 2017
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:50 PM on July 13, 2017
I seem to remember reading about WHAS that it is "a parody of a genre that does not exist." AV Club, maybe?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:58 PM on July 13, 2017
posted by Chrysostom at 12:58 PM on July 13, 2017
The genre exists, it's just a small genre.
I wonder if the "school's out" movies like Hog Wild fill out my memories of the genre.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:23 PM on July 13, 2017
I wonder if the "school's out" movies like Hog Wild fill out my memories of the genre.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:23 PM on July 13, 2017
So where do all these memories of Summer Camp movies come from? Is it all just memories of Meatballs viewed a million times growing up?
Or perhaps our own experiences of camp. I know that some of Meatballs resonated with me as a kid because of my own (non-Jewish, actually) camp experience.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:24 PM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
Or perhaps our own experiences of camp. I know that some of Meatballs resonated with me as a kid because of my own (non-Jewish, actually) camp experience.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:24 PM on July 13, 2017 [1 favorite]
For me that definitely wasn't the case. I never went to summer camp. Though I'm sure money was a big issue for that. But also I think it would have been a bit strange for us because we lived in a remote community and summer camps always seem to be for city kids. Going to the summer camps portrayed in those movies was like civilization compared to where we lived.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:35 PM on July 13, 2017
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:35 PM on July 13, 2017
I only ever saw the second movie as a kid, and had the idea that all the Meatballs movies had aliens in them. I avoided the heck out of them for some time. That thing was creepy.
posted by Countess Elena at 1:39 PM on July 13, 2017
posted by Countess Elena at 1:39 PM on July 13, 2017
My sister was a camp counselor at White Pine for one summer in the late '90s. She told me the nickname for the camp among the employees was "Camp White Crabs," did not enjoy her time there at all and experienced no retroactive delight when I told her about the Meatballs connection.
Corey Feldman in Meatballs 4 might be the most coked-up performance I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of Nick Cave movies.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:55 PM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Corey Feldman in Meatballs 4 might be the most coked-up performance I've ever seen, and I've seen a lot of Nick Cave movies.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:55 PM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
My theory is that all summer camp comedies are set at Jewish summer camps while all summer camp horror films are set at, like, YMCA camps or whatever the hell non-Jews go to.
posted by maxsparber at 2:29 PM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by maxsparber at 2:29 PM on July 13, 2017 [3 favorites]
Young adult fiction from the 60s/70s/80s has a fair number of novels about going to summer camp. As a Texan who never went to one or even really knew anyone who went, I always found them to be quite exotic and loved reading them.
Meatballs is a sweet little retro film that is utterly derailed by the "let's wrestle" scene where Bill Murray sexually assaults a visibly terrified actress, who he of course ends up with by the end of the movie. Really, it's appalling. Especially after half an hour or so of wacky camp hijinks has your guard down.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 2:38 PM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
Meatballs is a sweet little retro film that is utterly derailed by the "let's wrestle" scene where Bill Murray sexually assaults a visibly terrified actress, who he of course ends up with by the end of the movie. Really, it's appalling. Especially after half an hour or so of wacky camp hijinks has your guard down.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 2:38 PM on July 13, 2017 [2 favorites]
My theory is that all summer camp comedies are set at Jewish summer camps while all summer camp horror films are set at, like, YMCA camps or whatever the hell non-Jews go to.
yeah, pretty much all of my summer camp memories have a Lord of the Flies edge to them. We never worshiped a pig's head, or massacred one of our fellow campers at the water's edge with a bonfire burning in the distance, but we probably would've if a counselor hadn't intervened. Although it is worth noting -- the counselors always seemed to intervene awfully late in the drama, maybe before the blood was flowing, but long after the tears.
I learned a lot about humanity at summer camp.
posted by philip-random at 5:31 PM on July 13, 2017
yeah, pretty much all of my summer camp memories have a Lord of the Flies edge to them. We never worshiped a pig's head, or massacred one of our fellow campers at the water's edge with a bonfire burning in the distance, but we probably would've if a counselor hadn't intervened. Although it is worth noting -- the counselors always seemed to intervene awfully late in the drama, maybe before the blood was flowing, but long after the tears.
I learned a lot about humanity at summer camp.
posted by philip-random at 5:31 PM on July 13, 2017
Home Movies did a summer camp episode that contains at least one Meatballs joke. Most amusingly Brendon refers to "camping movies" which, as we've discussed, aren't really a thing.
posted by ob1quixote at 6:48 PM on July 13, 2017
posted by ob1quixote at 6:48 PM on July 13, 2017
Sadly, Harvey Atkin, better known as "Morty," died today. Aged 74.
posted by chococat at 1:28 PM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by chococat at 1:28 PM on July 18, 2017 [1 favorite]
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Russ Banham (actor, played “Bobby Crockett”): It was summertime, and my kid sister and I decided to go to Jones Beach, which is what kids in Queens do in the summertime. All I had on was a pair of cut-off jeans. No shoes, no shirts, that’s it. I called my answering service, and there’s an urgent message from my agent. “There’s a producer in town today. He’s doing auditions for a movie called Summer Camp.” I was an hour-and-a-half away from Manhattan, so I didn’t have time to go home and change. I went straight to the audition. I walk into this thing with jean shorts and no shirt, looking like I just stepped off the beach. Because I had! All these other actors, whom I used to audition against, they were looking at me, and I could tell they were thinking, “Genius! He’s a genius! Why didn’t I think of that? He even got a sunburn for it!”
I guess that gives the lie to the "No shoes, no shirt, no service" signs.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:55 PM on July 12, 2017 [4 favorites]