Resistance Rising
August 2, 2017 6:16 PM   Subscribe

The 2017 Democratic Socialists of America convention will be held this weekend from August 3-6 at the University of Illinois-Chicago. Over the past year, membership in the DSA has quadrupled to make it the largest socialist organization in America with 25,000 due-paying members. Of course, there's a lot at stake.

The convention will hold votes on various resolutions and constitutional amendments as well as voting on who will become members of the National Political Committee. With at least 4 seats on the 16-seat committee reserved for people of color and at least 8 reserved for women, members will have to choose delegates from three competing visions for the future of the DSA.

First up, is the DSA Praxis group featuring Occupy veteran R.L. Stephens, India Left Front activist Ravi Ahmed, and Oklahoma-based citizen of the Potawatomi Nation, Leslie Driskill. DSA Praxis aims to center criminal justice reform and regional socialist organizations.

DSA Momentum wants to focus on Medicare For All, DSA union leadership, and collaboration/solidarity with international leftist groups. Members include Jeremy Gong who co-authored the highly democratic DSA Spring platform, Catherine Hoffman , a Detroit union activist and member of the DSA Queer working group, and Natalie Midiri, former schoolteacher and co-chair of the Philly DSA.

Lastly, the DSA Unity organization wants to focus on loose organization around specific causes in order to get non-socialist identified people to join the ranks. Members include BLM activist Brandon Payton-Carrillo, feminist and LGBT astrophysicist Christine Riddiough, and unionist Texan Danny Fetonte

Of course there are broader questions to discuss such as should the DSA try to work within the Democratic party or strike out on their own?

All of this action comes hot on the heels of another mainstream left vs. socialist left battle that involved Democrat rising star Kamala Harris. While charges of racism have been leveled against critics of Harris, they have been vocal, specifically DNC veteran Nomiki Konst, nurses unionist RoseAnn DeMoro, and activist Winnie Wong. In response, many on Twitter have lobbied for a Nina Turner candidacy.
posted by R.F.Simpson (182 comments total) 55 users marked this as a favorite
 
The episode of The Dig with Stephens and Mahoney is terrific, btw.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 6:20 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


A very nice round up of all the major players!
posted by zabuni at 6:31 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


> DSA Momentum wants to focus on Medicare For All, DSA union leadership, and collaboration/solidarity with international leftist groups. Members include Jeremy Gong who co-authored the highly democratic DSA Spring platform [...]

Also, I can attest that Jeremy Gong is truly a joy to play board games with — picks up new games fast, finds clever new wrinkles in old games, generous with others, competitive when it's appropriate, cooperative when it's appropriate, never so intense as to focus on the game to the expense of conversation, but also good at helping keep games going at a pleasurable clip.

Though lately he's been too busy to come to board game night.

Our loss is DSA's gain, I suppose...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:36 PM on August 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm aware of the DSA through some promotion of the group by MeFi's Own The Whelk. That's a good enough endorsement for me.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:08 PM on August 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm concerned about the idea that DSA would start running candidates. Would they want to get into Congress, Senate, Governor, or Presidential races? It seems like that would just be a new version of the Green party, except perhaps marginally more successful. What do we think would happen if a far left party was winning 10 to 15% of the vote in these races?
posted by andoatnp at 7:28 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Honestly, it seems like the separatist movement among the DSA is very small. Most of the heavy-hitters/influencers (Jacobin, dirtbag Left, Left twitter, podcasts) seem to be focused on working within the Democratic party.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 7:31 PM on August 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


I hope the DSA decides to work within the Democratic party and yank it left hard. I'm loving that progressive politics are becoming increasingly popular. it's so awesome after years of the public acting like things like universal health coverage were fairyland pipe dreams that could never happen (despite happening literally everywhere else in the world).

Side note: Rose-Ann DeMoro is a fucking dipshit. She might be a great union organizer (no idea) but she literally said she thought single-payer was more likely under Trump because Melania is from Europe. http://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2017/01/political-powerful-nurses-union-head-im-counting-on-trump-for-real-health-care-reform-108511
posted by supercrayon at 7:33 PM on August 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Oh, yes, please split the left with a credible third party in the Age of Trump. Like Jill Stein and the Gullible Greens; and Calexit, this has the stench of the Kremlin all over it, like splitting the left in the face of lockstep goons is gonna help anything. Show up at the municipal primaries in an off year, in an odd month to take over the school board like the Tea Partiers do, and then and only then I may afford you some shred of respect. Until then, you have my endless scorn as useful tools for the far right. Unless they're planning a takeover of the next Democratic Party primary, in which case, have at it!
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:40 PM on August 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


I haven't seen much desire within the DSA to start running their own candidates. I've seen a non-zero amount, but not much.
posted by Automocar at 7:40 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Okay, I just skimmed the resolutions and amendments documents. Here's what seems to be at stake: the only controversial political resolution is an endorsement of BDS. The other significant issues all concern DSA structure and governance: whether to withdraw from the Socialist International; how dues should be paid (monthly instead of yearly?) and split between local and national treasuries; institution of a harassment/assault grievance procedure; whether or not caucuses will be allowed inside DSA; the abolition of vice and honorary chairs.

IMHO, a lot of these proposals are good steps for the organization and will move it towards a more activist posture instead of the current more freewheeling, less accountable state of affairs.

My prediction: DSA withdraws from the SI, BDS fails, Momentum slate wins. No major splits or defections and DSA more or less continues as it has for the past several months, with minor adjustments.

With regard to the DSA generally, I've never viewed it as anything than an organization that is, wittingly or not, drumming up enthusiasm and ground troops for the Democratic Party, so everyone terrified of them taking votes away from the Democratic Party can rest easy -- they have no intention of doing so. One can infer that either from the DSA's history or recent statements.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 7:46 PM on August 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Oh, yes, please split the left with a credible third party in the Age of Trump. Like Jill Stein and the Gullible Greens; and Calexit, this has the stench of the Kremlin all over it, like splitting the left in the face of lockstep goons is gonna help anything. Show up at the municipal primaries in an off year, in an odd month to take over the school board like the Tea Partiers do, and then and only then I may afford you some shred of respect. Until then, you have my endless scorn as useful tools for the far right.

Literally none of this applies to the DSA
posted by R.F.Simpson at 7:47 PM on August 2, 2017 [42 favorites]


I think the best route toward achieving real power for the DSA in the short term, and really the best short-term strategy for all of the socialist tendencies, is to focus on supporting candidates for municipal office (see, for example, DSA's support of Jon Grant for Seattle city council.)1


1: Grant is like straight from central casting though isn't he? like someone put in an order for a friendly, smart, but painfully awkward white guy socialist, and suddenly, Jon Grant was there.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:49 PM on August 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm seeing the DSA more like the Tea Party of the left, and we all saw how the Tea Party did.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:49 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Having listened to that Dig podcast Joseph Gurl mentioned, I have to say Momentum seemed to have a clearer plan of what they actually want DSA to do. Maybe I'm just being swayed by their having the same name as the group that got Corbyn in charge of Labour in the UK.
posted by 3urypteris at 7:54 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, any concern that the DSA wants to be a new Green party is completely out of left field. The debate between working outside of or within the democratic party has nothing to do with national presidential elections but with specific races where the democratic party is being overly centrist or just won't get involved at all (most of these races would occur at the state and county level). Taking 10-15 percent of the national vote in a presidential election isn't even on the DSA radar nor would most us want it to be.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 7:54 PM on August 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


okay so how many of y'all are in DSA?

says the dude who always flakes from actually going to meetings...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:59 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I joined my local chapter two months ago and actually sent in dues and officially joined DSA a week ago.
posted by 3urypteris at 8:02 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


(Joined in late June, sent off dues, haven't gone to meetings because of a mixture of unexpected responsibilities and debilitating social anxiety. I see my role as helping push DSA toward a more intersectional line... once I stop hiding in my apartment... )
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:05 PM on August 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


*raises hand kind of tentatively* It's been a relatively recent development where I finally admitted to myself I probably lean more socialist than anarchist on the spectrum, and I've been so, so (so!) tired of having to vote for Democrats whose ideologies are often so far from my own. I figured it was time to try throwing my energy into a more centralized (rather than decentralized) group(s) for a while and see how that goes.
posted by stagewhisper at 8:05 PM on August 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Honestly, I was a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat until the 2016 primaries and I realized that there was a pretty large gap between mainstream Democrats and Socialists. I joined after the spectacle of the DNC convention. As cliche as it sounds it was Bernie/Hilary/Chapo/Left Twitter that got me into the DSA. MeFi seems to be pretty down on people like me (white male queer) criticizing mainstream liberalism, and I'm sure a lot of people here would see me as a stereotypical Bernie-bro but the past year and a half have made me a kinder, more intersectional person.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:11 PM on August 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


says the dude who always flakes from actually going to meetings...

All is forgiven if you've got a newsletter
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:21 PM on August 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


joined last year, pay dues, can't go to meetings because expat
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:22 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


MeFi seems to be pretty down on people like me (white male queer) criticizing mainstream liberalism
posted by 3urypteris at 8:22 PM on August 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


Taking 10-15 percent of the national vote in a presidential election isn't even on the DSA radar nor would most us want it to be.

This. But it's not remotely surprising that so many centrist Dems have been convinced that the opposite is true. I hope they find out it's not and accept that fact when they encounter it.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:23 PM on August 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Me! I joined right after the election.

I can't stand Chapo Trap House, though. (don't kick me out)
posted by Automocar at 8:23 PM on August 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


MeFi seems to be pretty down on people like me (white male queer) criticizing mainstream liberalism, and I'm sure a lot of people here would see me as a stereotypical Bernie-bro but the past year and a half have made me a kinder, more intersectional person. ^

Well, it's difficult for me to not feel like I'm living in some alternate universe sometimes when I start reading the Trump threads with their steady undercurrent of ridiculing and demonizing of the left (like really, "alt-left? " people are really making that into a thing?) but one phenomena I think this election taught pretty much all of us is that most people move in social media silos now. But I spend most of my time in communities of color- primarily black communities, and the political conversations that happen around me in what are mainstream places/gatherings are *way* more radical than the Joy Reids of the Democratic party appear to grasp.
posted by stagewhisper at 8:26 PM on August 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


> With regard to the DSA generally, I've never viewed it as anything than an organization that is, wittingly or not, drumming up enthusiasm and ground troops for the Democratic Party, so everyone terrified of them taking votes away from the Democratic Party can rest easy -- they have no intention of doing so. One can infer that either from the DSA's history or recent statements.

Yeah, the Trotskyist left is something different from DSA.

Mostly I prefer DSA right now because I think that right now democratic centralism introduces more problems than it solves, and because selling newspapers is no good for anybody.

This is where me a year ago would have talked shit about ISO and SA, but I've kind of given up left factionalism for lent. As I see it, the varying tendencies all have a role to play, and it's good to have them all around. DSA's been getting bigger than ISO and SA lately because the historical moment demands DSA's platform and style of organization; should things get dicier, centralist organizations might see a sudden influx of new members that could far outstrip DSA's recent growth — I mean, recall how quickly the Bolsheviks grew in 1917.

Basically I'm glad that, should we get to a situation where "arm the workers!" as a slogan becomes both plausible and necessary, ISO will be there to shout "arm the workers!"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:26 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Basically I'm glad that, should we get to a situation where "arm the workers!" as a slogan becomes both plausible and necessary, ISO will be there to shout "arm the workers!" "do you want to buy the latest Socialist Worker?"

Sorry, couldn't resist
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 8:33 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


> I can't stand Chapo Trap House, though. (don't kick me out)

I feel like I should give chapo more of a chance, maybe, but I'm pretty persuaded by Lindy West's take on the dirtbag left as a whole:
The “dirtbag left,” in contrast to these “[social justice] warriors,” promises a world in which you can have it both ways: You can be good without ever seeming uncool in front of your buddies, you can be an advocate for social justice without ever considering there might be social forces beyond your ken, you can be a crusader for positive change without ever killing anyone’s buzz, you can be a progressive hero without ever taking identity politics seriously. It’s an ambitious contortion, and one that affords straight white men a luxurious degree of stasis. I confess, that world doesn’t track with mine.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:33 PM on August 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


Critics of Chapo have elevated it to this status as the arbiter of all things Left of Hilary and it's quite the strawman. Chapo is a fucking stupid humor podcast run by a bunch of losers who vent about thinkpieces and that's why I listen to it. Listening to it feels like letting off some steam. I mean, look at the Chapo subreddit; half of it is people making fun of Chapo.

Left twitter/podcast land is a diverse place with many different viewpoints and I hate how the most popular podcast (because it's funny) gets conflated with the entire post-trump leftward movement.

Also, that Lindy West piece that describes Chapo as anti-SJW is patently untrue. They talk about racism, sexism, and transphobia all the time. What they deride is white men making careers out of being performative allies. This is not to say that Chapo doesn't have it's blind spots, but calling them anti-SJW is a dog-whistle tactic to equate them with Trumpists.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:47 PM on August 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


Yes, I enjoy this take and I think it's helped clarify my own feelings on the "dirtbag left"--they seem like the kinds of guys that called me a fag in high school, and I have learned to be wary of groups of straight-appearing white dudes.

I also find all the "dank memes" stuff very tiresome. I guess I am an Old now.

But this is not a bash Chapo thread so sorry for any derailing.
posted by Automocar at 8:49 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


oh god this is where I realize that I spend so much time in the trump threads cause that's the only part of metafilter where I can play lefter-than-thou and win
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:50 PM on August 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


I don't even intend to really defend Chapo. They're doing just fine with all their Patreon money, but the dirtbag-left has been kind of a safe space for people who are really fucking pissed at the Democratic party.

Regarding MeFi, I've stopped visiting those Trump threads because they are so hostile to any opinions that don't include "yaaas kween hillary with the shade" and have leaned into this "alt-left" conspiracy stuff where Bernie is a Russian agent. It really rubs me the wrong way and instead of complaining about it (and getting deleted or drubbed), I decided to just nope out of there.

Now, I think I'm thread-sitting because this feels like a nice space away from the Maddow-watching hoard.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 8:56 PM on August 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


DSA's been getting bigger than ISO and SA lately because the historical moment demands DSA's platform and style of organization; should things get dicier, centralist organizations might see a sudden influx of new members that could far outstrip DSA's recent growth — I mean, recall how quickly the Bolsheviks grew in 1917.

I don't understand how Russia in 1917 can be a guide to the US 100 years later. We have our own unique circumstances and there's really no way to predict what will happen, the only certainty is that it will be different.

Well, also that it will be stupid, we do live in the Zone now.
posted by indubitable at 9:00 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I am a social democrat but I don't feel welcome in the DSA as a) a woman b) over 30 and, on twitter at least, have learned to be very wary of rose icons. I would love to see this convention emerge in some strong resolutions regarding intersectionality, not going after black women like it was a sport, and not purity-testing absolutely every viable candidate that isn't a Certain Someone. I'm not going to hold my breath though.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:02 PM on August 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


I am a social democrat but I don't feel welcome in the DSA as a) a woman b) over 30 and, on twitter at least, have learned to be very wary of rose icons. I would love to see this convention emerge in some strong resolutions regarding intersectionality, not going after black women like it was a sport, and not purity-testing absolutely every viable candidate that isn't a Certain Someone. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

it's too late, i have a draft copy of the DSA's ratified platform, it's just two pages of the n-word repeated over and over again
posted by indubitable at 9:04 PM on August 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


RAVI!!!

I'm not going cause I have Stuff and also cause I crave no leadership role and don't want to crowd out someone who REALLY wants to be there but it's

SO

DUCKING

EXCITING

YOU

GUYS

It's been a HEADY 6 months since I joined and it;s never been involved with something so relentlessly upbeat, organized, forward-thinking, on task and full of MOMENTUM like this. There are plans, there are counter-plans, there are schedules and timetables and strgetry and there is a lot of fun. I've shunned like, active protests my entire life and now I've been to several marches a month! I go to committee meetings! I've spent all day making signs or canvassing or shaking hands. I'm helping form a working group that might require me to be on camera so I had a conservative suit made.

When people ask "What have you been doing?" I say "Cradle Will Rock LARP" and I'm only kind of kidding.

And I not long ago considered myself faintly apolitical. I now have a *good* working idea of how the city council and state senate work. I am actively working to help elect three people right now. I do illustrations for the newsletters. I made a logo for The Village Voice Union. I hand out political flyers at bars.

I keep thinking I'm going to burn out but dear god everyone is so nice and supportive and full of comradeship and the spirit of change, of real honest change is just pushing all of this bigger and bigger, faster than I could've ever imagined. Everyone involved is so passionate and has thought this out for years and striking while the iron is hot. It's dizzying really - and nothing like Online. I cannot stress the break between in-person meetings and organizing and random twitter people- It;s a huge psychological salve to be around like-minded people also injured by capitalism and wanting and willing to fight back. Hell, I managed to turn a wedding reception into a low key strike solidarity meeting (No one buy from B&H you guys).


Fight for the future. Fight for the people. Fight for what you deserve.

We will win.
posted by The Whelk at 9:06 PM on August 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


my chapter gets together for beer every two weeks we're pretty cool too
posted by 3urypteris at 9:09 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I am a social democrat but I don't feel welcome in the DSA as a) a woman b) over 30 and, on twitter at least, have learned to be very wary of rose icons. I would love to see this convention emerge in some strong resolutions regarding intersectionality, not going after black women like it was a sport, and not purity-testing absolutely every viable candidate that isn't a Certain Someone. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

The DSA is primarily led by women over 30. What problems of intersectionality would you like to see addressed?
posted by R.F.Simpson at 9:10 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


The DSA is primarily led by women over 30.

The informational meeting I went to in LA, and every photograph from meetings on Twitter, features at least an 80/20 male to female ratio, 90+ percent white, age hard to guess but I'm 45 and nobody looks like me. I'd love to see the numbers behind your cite, and I'd like to see more than leadership represented. I was not comfortable enough to go back, it did not feel like a feminist assembly.

I understand there just is not going to be a lot of black participation (that's what intersectionality is meant here, more than representation of just any women) because black people have zero reason to trust us, but without a platform meant to handle some of the suuuuuper shitty behavior I've seen from local DSA chapters toward black activists and black women activists in general, that's never going to change and it's not going to be a bridgeable gap.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:18 PM on August 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


Also one thing that doesn't feel like US politics as usual is the social aspect. From prioritizing happy hours and BBQs and Film series as much as political meetings and direct actions and workshops- to NYC DSA test-running a organization structure where people are told to keep in touch with and touch base with a circle of members to get them more involved by identifying their skills and needs while focusing on arranging practical things like food at meetings and childcare, and getting minutes out to everyone so you don't have to be physically present- to a lot of one and one time, like I've ended up talking to older people in my building who used to be activists and had no idea how to fit into the new systems via some of the organizational methods and actions. I don't think I've made them members but they know we're out there and now they know who that young guy at the city comptroller meeting is.

Parties lead to a Party, no one says it can't also be fun.
posted by The Whelk at 9:26 PM on August 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


although I do think I get a different experience cause the NYC chapter is by far the largest and most tightly organized, like I know *exactly* who to report issues to or raise attentions of and how cause we're writing the guidebook on that.

I'm excited about the 101 and 102 workshops being recorded and spread to everyone so the lessons and systems everyone has developed can share. (Example, the Who We Are And What We Want business cards came from Seattle DSA, extremely useful the Pride March)
posted by The Whelk at 9:30 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


> I don't understand how Russia in 1917 can be a guide to the US 100 years later. We have our own unique circumstances and there's really no way to predict what will happen, the only certainty is that it will be different.

okay so I think I just made a dirtbag-lefty kind of move by simultaneously being a little bit sarcastic about the tendency in the Trotskyist tendencies to fetishize the Russian Revolution, but also being a little bit not: revolutions are things that happen, and though things aren't revolutionary-moment around here right now, things are undeniably really weird, and revolutionary moments have a lot in common across time and place.

so yeah anyway.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:41 PM on August 2, 2017


also I want to get together for beer with socialists every coupla weeks.

less time on metafilter more time going to meetings. less time on metafilter more time going to meetings. less time on metafilter...
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 9:44 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


but I've kind of given up left factionalism for lent

I've often said that DSA is where the Progressive and the Anarchist can break bread and realize that as workers (for we are all workers) have more in common with each other then the holders of capital.

Also the most exciting thing at the NYC Convention was really hitting hard that we'd be a failure if we're just attracting "downward mobile millennials" and the urgent need to spread to not only groups not typically aligned with Socialism but groups that have fallen out of politics and voting altogether.

Cause literally my one genie wish is MORE DEMOCRACY.
posted by The Whelk at 9:51 PM on August 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


So I read the spring platform and see a bunch of self-affirming stuff about how democracy within the organization should work, a bunch of stuff about dues and grievances, and one line about a single-payer march. Where's the policy?
posted by xyzzy at 9:53 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Lyn Never - you may be interested in this excellent The Dig interview with DSA National Political Committee member Sean Monahan and National Director Maria Svart (more on Svart here). Svart, by the way, is a woman and I'm almost certain is over 30! She's also awesome.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:54 PM on August 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here you go, xyzzy!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:57 PM on August 2, 2017


Thank you, Joseph Gurl.
posted by xyzzy at 9:59 PM on August 2, 2017


NYC DSA test-running a organization structure where people are told to keep in touch with and touch base with a circle of members to get them more involved by identifying their skills and needs while focusing on arranging practical things like food at meetings and childcare, and getting minutes out to everyone so you don't have to be physically present- to a lot of one and one time

This is really interesting; a page torn right out of Mormonism/evangelicalism. Probably because it works, really well.
posted by Miko at 10:02 PM on August 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


without a platform meant to handle some of the suuuuuper shitty behavior I've seen from local DSA chapters toward black activists and black women activists in general

Resolution 23 which would create guidelines for handling harassment grievances at the local and national level, would create a new position to handle local grievances, and would create a "grievance body" that will review cases of harassment is up for a vote this weekend. It is sponsored by two of the people mentioned in the OP from the Philly and East Bay DSA. Also, Resolution 33 would define "harassing behavior" and would put forth a framework for addressing "discriminatory and abusive behavior."

It really sucks that you didn't feel welcome as a woman at the DSA-LA. I know they are really trying to get women involved with that specific chapter as evidenced by their Vimeo account where they have a series called "Profiles in Socialist Feminism." Specifically the interview with Kelsey Goldberg about how she found a socialist feminist home at the DSA-LA may be of interest to you.

They also did a video series called 30 for 30 where they profiled one socialist for each day in May that included MLK, Frida Kahlo, Bayard Rustin, Angela Davis, the Black Panthers, Cesar Chavez, Cornel West, Nellie Wong, bell hooks, Sylvia Rivera, and Helen Keller (they didn't quite make it to 30). Also, DSA-LA has collaborated with BLM in "Turn Up Tuesdays" where they go to public council meetings and protest the LAPD's treatment of black youth.

It sucks that you had a bad experience at the meeting, and I'm not denying that you felt uncomfortable. But, by all accounts, that is not the type of environment that we want to create. The DSA (and specifically the DSA-LA) is working hard to integrate feminists and people of color into the fold, often because various parts of the organization are led by them (just click on any of the linked names in the OP, I included only women and people of color for a reason).
posted by R.F.Simpson at 10:07 PM on August 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Resolution 23 which would create guidelines for handling harassment grievances
working hard to integrate feminists and people of color into the fold

Even at a distance, the language in which these initiatives are expressed and the ideas with which they're framed tells me that it inclusion is still not in the position of bedrock value. I'm sure they're initiatives. But that language doesn't position those concerns as part of the organization's center.
posted by Miko at 10:13 PM on August 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Even at a distance, the language in which these initiatives are expressed and the ideas with which they're framed tells me that it inclusion is still not in the position of bedrock value. I'm sure they're initiatives. But that language doesn't position those concerns as part of the organization's center.

See the DSA's "Where We Stand" page and you'll notice that Section 1 strongly emphasizes gender and sexuality and racial equality. The interview I posted above with Maria Svart also emphasizes similar things. Are there any mass political organizations, though, for which "guidelines for handling harassment grievances" are "part of the organization's center"? Certainly not the DNC or RNC.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:20 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm not personally drawn to getting involved in DSA but I really appreciate those participating and I love and am energized by the energy! At this point, I don't expect any organization to check all the boxes but I do expect organizations to have an active process to address their internal limitations and from what I'm seeing DSA is doing that - plus they are Showing Up (rather than talking on the internet which I personally find is a corrosive force in my own political life - can't speak for anyone else)

At this stage of human history I've a lot of patience for people who are out there doing work, even if they are imperfect, and very little interest in nay saying and critique. Critique is important, but my observation is those doing the most organizing are not the ones doing the most critquing but... I'm sure there are exceptions.

From a personal point of view, I've tried to pick one issue and work on that (along with giving money/occasionally calling senators/showing up to a demonstration every month or so for broader causes) and for me I chose Single Payer. It's not the most important issue. Anti-black racism for one is something that feels more urgent, bigger, more corosive. But I'm a nurse and it makes sense for me to focus on this narrow thing that I have direct knowledge about, and that I believe is achievable and will improve people's lives instantly and measurably, so that's where I'm putting most of my activist energy right now, as incomplete a cause as it is.

I think we do need to hold ourselves and each other accountable but I'm not going to do any nay-saying about people doing positive work right now. If folks aren't excited about DSA, I mean, that's fine. I assume those folks are throwing money at BLM, water protectors, trans WOC activists, or other groups or causes they believe in. Putting work and money into other orgs seems like the best rebuttal to an imperfect group.
posted by latkes at 10:26 PM on August 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


I think we do need to hold ourselves and each other accountable but I'm not going to do any nay-saying about people doing positive work right now. If folks aren't excited about DSA, I mean, that's fine. I assume those folks are throwing money at BLM, water protectors, trans WOC activists, or other groups or causes they believe in. Putting work and money into other orgs seems like the best rebuttal to an imperfect group.

Totally--well said, latkes.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:30 PM on August 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Even at a distance, the language in which these initiatives are expressed and the ideas with which they're framed tells me that it inclusion is still not in the position of bedrock value. I'm sure they're initiatives. But that language doesn't position those concerns as part of the organization's center.

That language is my own way of restating the resolutions and does not reflect the expression of the actual resolutions which were linked in the OP. Inclusion is a position of bedrock value of the DSA and those specific resolutions were written by women and people of color. It is unlikely that they do not view resistance to their own oppression as a "position of bedrock value."

To even speak of "inclusion" as something given out by white man is hilarious given the number of women and people of color in leadership roles. Inclusion is inherent in the structure of the organization.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 10:33 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Language like "integration" does not communicate that inclusion is an inherent value. Inclusion is not given by one to another, it is practiced by everyone. I also did not make the assumption that "white man" was in leadership.
posted by Miko at 10:36 PM on August 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'd love to be pointed to a progressive, active, functional political organization that is more inclusive than the DSA. I mean, if people here are criticizing the DSA for not being inclusive, y'all must loathe the DNC, right?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:40 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Language like "integration" does not communicate that inclusion is an inherent value.

Then, blame my own poor choice of words because the DSA doesn't use that language.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 10:45 PM on August 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Then, blame my own poor choice of words because the DSA doesn't use that language.

Right, that's clear; so I think part of the evolution of the perception of this party is that people involved are going to need to make those changes and adjust their own language and practice - and the fact that those changes aren't yet widespread are why it's still possible to have bad experiences in meetings and online in discussions about them. Not to understand the ring of "integration" is part of that. I believe you that the platform is terrific and that great people are involved in repositioning this party. I'm not sure the values and understandings are universal yet, and it will take some time for this culture to change, as it does for all cultures to change. To say that it's perfect now, and a safe place for everyone right now right this second, is probably less than 100% true. It's all got a fair way to go.
posted by Miko at 10:49 PM on August 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


To say that it's perfect now, and a safe place for everyone right now right this second, is probably less than 100% true.

Well then, I guess it's a good thing that literally no one has ever claimed this.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 10:59 PM on August 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


y'all must loathe the DNC, right?
I don't think whataboutism is a valid way to engage with criticism. I can criticize the DNC, the DSA, and the AFL-CIO all I want, and it's not hypocritical to lodge a complaint about the DSA even if I feel that other organizations have similar problems. (I'm not lodging such a complaint, because, as usual, I've read a Socialist platform and I have come away shaking my head over home ownership for all/a chicken in every pot aspirational BS that doesn't take into account that the original American Dream relied on a permanent, legally and socially suppressed underclass and military expansionism to prop it self up. Therefore my interest in this group has evaporated.) But I would strongly encourage anyone who wants to convert people to the cause of Democratic Socialism to avoid whataboutism while responding to criticisms/concerns. There's a lot to like in this platform, and it would be a shame to drive natural lefty/progressives away by sneering at their current party affiliation.
posted by xyzzy at 10:59 PM on August 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


my interest in this group has evaporated.) But I would strongly encourage anyone

I shall pledge henceforth to take your grave concerns under most solemn advisement!
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:06 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't think whataboutism is a valid way to engage with criticism. I can criticize the DNC, the DSA, and the AFL-CIO all I want, and it's not hypocritical to lodge a complaint about the DSA even if I feel that other organizations have similar problems. (I'm not lodging such a complaint, because, as usual, I've read a Socialist platform and I have come away shaking my head over home ownership for all/a chicken in every pot aspirational BS that doesn't take into account that the original American Dream relied on a permanent, legally and socially suppressed underclass and military expansionism to prop it self up. Therefore my interest in this group has evaporated.) But I would strongly encourage anyone who wants to convert people to the cause of Democratic Socialism to avoid whataboutism while responding to criticisms/concerns. There's a lot to like in this platform, and it would be a shame to drive natural lefty/progressives away by sneering at their current party affiliation.

Then you must loathe the DNC right?
posted by R.F.Simpson at 11:15 PM on August 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Then you must loathe the DNC right?

🎶 That's going a little too far...
posted by elsietheeel at 11:46 PM on August 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


*shrug* If y'all think that acting like contemptuous trolls will attract people to your cause, have at it. I'll wash my hands of this thread now, though.
posted by xyzzy at 11:46 PM on August 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


There's a lot to like in this platform, and it would be a shame to drive natural lefty/progressives away by sneering at their current party affiliation.

Tone argument X respectability politics.

(and fwiw I've voted Dem in every local and national election since 1990.)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:59 PM on August 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


*shrug* If y'all think that acting like contemptuous trolls will attract people to your cause, have at it. I'll wash my hands of this thread now, though.

Any attempt at irony, humor, or anything other than stonefaced self-righteousness seems to be the ultimate sin against the respectability politics of the left and the right.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 12:14 AM on August 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Comrades! Remember, we are a movement of positively and joy

*shouting from back*

oh and making of fun of Posadism.

*more shouting*

There is nothing funny about Posadism.
posted by The Whelk at 12:17 AM on August 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Geez I don't see from this thread at all why Lyn Never or other women or POC might be turned off when interacting with people from the DSA. You know if someone gives you a heads up about something you're involved with and says "Hey I didn't feel super welcome because reasons." they're actually doing you a favor and interacting with you and giving you a chance to make good. Responding with, "Well we have lots of women in our group so..." or "Then you must hate other organization!" is not the way to show good faith or that you take marginalized people's concerns seriously.

For real, how easy would it have been to say "I'm sorry that was your experience, can you tell me the kind of thing you were running into? I haven't run into that myself but I'll be on the look out for it because it's not cool." I'm assuming we're all in agreement that making women or POC feel unwelcome is not cool, yes?

As always big ups to The Whelk for being his usual positive enthusiastic self. Cheers mate.
posted by supercrayon at 1:11 AM on August 3, 2017 [28 favorites]


the problem is when you're Online is it's hard to do that thing where you hear Something or Something Happens and you go talk to that person and you say this is Not Being A Good Comrade and you bring the person in and you have a one on one on how this is bad and hurts solidarity and then ideally you all come out better people and better comrades.

I shouldn't even say ideally I've only had this fail once, treating people like human beings and saying "uuuuh not cool" works.

and do ask what was their experience and how it can be changed or addressed. flat out denying it exists is not cool! not at all!

And it's all extremely Offline. As it should be.
posted by The Whelk at 1:32 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


People feeling like DSA-friendly Mefites aren't sufficiently solicitious in this thread may have an inkling of how all the zillion-post US politics/Trump threads feel to leftists.

I do think The Whelk's bubbly positivity and charming good nature are virtues. They aren't ones that I sare (on the internet, at least), I'll admit, but I think supercrayon's criticism ignores the many good-faith responses in the thread, the POC and women-centric links in the post, and the many similar links in the comments. It's also hard to respond to a personal anecdote, to be honest--there's a ton of support in this thread for the idea that the DSA takes sexism, racism, homophobia, and transphobia extremely seriously, but none of that can serve as any kind of remedy for a person's bad experience at a meeting. For that experience, the best response, to my mind, has been posted in the thread, inadvisable diction notwithstanding.

>For real, how easy would it have been to say "I'm sorry that was your experience, can you tell me the kind of thing you were running into? I haven't run into that myself but I'll be on the look out for it because it's not cool."

R.F. Simpson said this, which seems pretty much like what you're asking for:

It sucks that you had a bad experience at the meeting, and I'm not denying that you felt uncomfortable. But, by all accounts, that is not the type of environment that we want to create. The DSA (and specifically the DSA-LA) is working hard to integrate feminists and people of color into the fold, often because various parts of the organization are led by them (just click on any of the linked names in the OP, I included only women and people of color for a reason).
posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:42 AM on August 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


also, for this is the time and place, comradeship is learned. We have to learn to be all brothers and sisters and citizens and some people need more learning. And people should be empowered to take people who aren't good at it aside to teach them to be comrades. even as a simple "hey not cool"
posted by The Whelk at 1:47 AM on August 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


If someone claims that they experienced an unwelcome atmosphere due to their gender presentation and/or race, I will (and did in this thread) try to point out the various ways in which the dsa tries to be a safe space for everyone and ask how we (and I) can be better.

My dismissive responses in this thread were not directed at the actual criticisms posed by Lyn Never. They were directed at the concern trolling and condescension that is endemic among certain liberals because, let's face it, if you're posting online about how you read a socialist platform once and therefore DSA is bad, then it's too late you're already gone, and the only reasonable response is mockery.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 2:02 AM on August 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


If you want real DSA hours you start crying at the Bread And Roses bit in Pride
posted by The Whelk at 2:07 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I don't understand how Russia in 1917 can be a guide to the US 100 years later. We have our own unique circumstances and there's really no way to predict what will happen, the only certainty is that it will be different.

Yes, but how different?

One of the striking things about politics and history is that the same political issues, questions, and predicaments are raised again and again, in different circumstances. Reform or revolution? Who is it permissible to form a political bloc with? Is violence an acceptable political tactic, and if so, in what circumstances? Should the legitimacy of the government be recognized? How should a political party be ideally structured? How should the party relate to the masses? Do we need a political party at all? Who is our political movement claiming to represent? How should our movement relate to those in other countries, or to national minorities? Etc. etc. etc.

1917 (and before and afterwards) is a case study in which these issues -- and many, many more -- arise. The Bolsheviks and their friends and enemies were debating all of these questions decades before the October insurrection in classic polemics that one can still find relevant today. The reason that far-left groups study 1917 is because they believe that the theory and practice of the Bolsheviks is a helpful guide to navigating contemporary political issues. Plus, it provides a template for a socialist group seizing power in an urban insurrection, which remains the object of some of these groups (and of which there are precious few examples of in history).

There is no doubt that the circumstances of the US 100 years since are different than Russia of 1917. In fact, even the US of 100 years ago was different enough from Russia that the issue of "American Exceptionalism" (a term that was coined by Stalin) was a major debate in the US Communist Party. Could the Bolshevik model of revolution be so easily exported to the United States? The Russian Communists at the time thought so, but that turned out to be wrong. However, to what extent the Bolshevik model remains relevant today is, at least in my mind, an open question. History has not ground to a halt.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:01 AM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


However, to what extent the Bolshevik model remains relevant today is, at least in my mind, an open question. History has not ground to a halt.

the perception that people, especially right-wing people, have of the bolsheviks and their model is one of ruthlessness - and therefore i don't think it's an effective model any more because the other side will be as ruthless - when losing means you and all like you are killed, put in prison or exiled, then there's no real motivation to stop fighting

civil conflicts now last for decades
posted by pyramid termite at 5:11 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


the perception that people, especially right-wing people, have of the bolsheviks and their model is one of ruthlessness

And of failure, if we're measuring "success" as actually putting in place an egalitarian communist regime.
posted by AdamCSnider at 5:17 AM on August 3, 2017


It sucks that you had a bad experience at the meeting, and I'm not denying that you felt uncomfortable. But, by all accounts, that is not the type of environment that we want to create.

This is probably going to sound like a really small thing to quibble over. But I think it can make a big difference in the end about how one comes across. Think about the difference between "but" and "and". If you say "X and Y", then you're saying that both X and Y are true. If you say "X but Y" then you're saying that Y is true, and that the truth of Y somehow qualifies or limits the truth of X.

Pay extra attention to your "but"s. How do you really want those sentences to relate? Are they really in opposition? They are simultaneously true, are they not?

Instead of "But, by all accounts, that is not the type of environment that we want to create", maybe it would come across as more welcoming to say something like "And that's not the type of environment we want to create, so we need to hear about what went wrong so we can fix it."
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 5:25 AM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


I know members of the DSA who help candidates run and they're all running as democrats so no vote splitting concern trolling needed.

They are also a good mix of PoC/women/queer... I think I should start attending meetings now that I mention it.
posted by tofu_crouton at 5:58 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mod note: A couple of comments deleted. Let's drop the metadiscussion. Don't single out other users, and don't make the thread all about yourself. Thank you.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane (staff) at 6:04 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


First off, I am sorry if anyone has had a negative experience with a DSA chapter or a DSA member, or has a negative impression of the organization. Please know that I personally take such statements extremely seriously, and do what I can in my small way to attempt to steer the DSA towards an intersectional solidarity. I think there is a tendency amongst some white cis male socialists to think that saying "solidarity" over and over is enough, and... it's not.

I'm in the national queer working group, and we have been trying to educate our fellow comrades as much as we can--there was a great gendered language/preferred pronoun document that was put together. Just in the past few days there's been a poor person's WG created, which is awesome! There's a national feminist socialism working group.

That said, the experiences that people are going to have with DSA on a local level, are, of course, going to vary wildly, because DSA is a multitendency and democratic organization in which local chapters are given a lot of autonomy in which to decide what their priorities are going to be. And there are a lot of internal discussions about all of the criticisms laid out above.

DSA is not a perfect organization by any stretch of the imagination, but it's also the only group that has made me feel like the future is not completely hopeless. Capitalism does not teach us that we are all in solidarity with every other member of the working class, no one matter what our race, gender, sexual orientation, gender presentation, etc. etc.

DSA has grown tremendously in just the past year. I myself am I new member as of November. We're trying to figure this stuff out, and there are many non white cis straight dudes in this organization that are helping to guide it, too.

Finally, the dirtbag left. I would ask anyone that is wary of DSA because of them to remember that many (most?) of these people are quite young, are just getting into activist politics for the first time, and that they have come of age in one of the most repressive capitalist environments in at least two generations. It's incumbent on all of us to teach them to listen to people when they say they are being made uncomfortable, not to dismiss it. This is emotional labor and certainly no one has any obligation whatsoever to engage in it, but I for one am fine to do so, because it means that, when entered into in a spirit of comradely solidarity, they will become better socialists.
posted by Automocar at 6:17 AM on August 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


I am a social democrat but I don't feel welcome in the DSA as a) a woman b) over 30 and, on twitter at least, have learned to be very wary of rose icons. I would love to see this convention emerge in some strong resolutions regarding intersectionality, not going after black women like it was a sport, and not purity-testing absolutely every viable candidate that isn't a Certain Someone. I'm not going to hold my breath though.

Same, same, same.

Also, any discussion of Chapo as "problematic but enjoyable" puts my teeth on edge. The dudes running it think making rape jokes about people they dislike is reasonable discourse. I cannot tell you how uninterested I am in choosing to spend time around people who claim the moral high ground but handwave that kind of behavior.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:21 AM on August 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Also, and I want to say this as gently as possible— there is often a thin line between “I’m sorry to hear you had that experience, we want to prevent it in the future, can you tell me more?” and sealioning.

Secondly, the assumption that anyone who is wary of the DSA based on multiple, nearly-identical negative interactions is therefore a DNC apologist/operative is TIRED. I see it all the time, and it is this weird mix of a persecution complex and conspiracy theory and purity culture, and I am tired of it.

I am glad the DSA is bringing joy to some people. I hope they can work to pull the Democrats left. Those can both coexist with the fact that I have seen a pattern of behavior from DSA fanatics that makes me feel very unsafe when engaging in conversation/interaction with people who identify with that group.

It actually reminds me a lot of evangelical Christian culture— this idea that any form of disagreement or criticism is verboten in the name of solidarity and “but this is all for the glory of the Lord/the glorious revolution, so you shouldn’t make a scene” is an attitude I have been fighting against for my entire religious life. Having it creep into politics makes me extremely tired.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:38 AM on August 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


As someone who is interested but ignorant on the various group histories here, what exactly are the complaints about the DSA? In every online mention of them, it seems like there is a kind of implied/assumed stance that they are a racist/misogynist/transphobic organization.

What led to this? I'm totally an outsider and have no context.
posted by FakeFreyja at 6:53 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


To center a conversation about the DSA around the problematic discourse of a tangentially related podcast or an uncomfortable experience is erasure of queers, women, and poc who run the organization. Pretending the that the organization is a young white guy circle jerk is to overlook the organizational power of minorities who are opressed by centrist liberalism.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 7:08 AM on August 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


you are doing the thing that you claim people in this org do not do, while kind of proving my point about the sealioning, but okay.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:14 AM on August 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


I don't think a message board is an appropriate place to have a detailed conversation about which chapters and which people, specifically, are problematic, and I also don't think it's fair to categorize honest empathy as "sealioning", because we can't get specific here for very good reasons.

I'll make an offer, though--if anyone here wants to share their specific negative experience with DSA, Memail me, and I'll see what I can do to raise this issue, especially if it relates to queer issues, because I'm in the queer working group and we are trying to raise awareness amongst local chapters about these issues.
posted by Automocar at 7:30 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


It sucks that people have had bad experiences/felt unwelcome.

I guess that the atmosphere may vary from chapter to chapter (as in Occupy) and I'm glad that the DSA prioritizes working to set internal standards to address problems going forward.

I am a (white) woman over 50 who hasn't felt excluded but I'm sure other people have. The DSA is *made up of people* so personally, for me, I've decided the best way to shape the culture is to get involved and help other people get involved, particularly people who may be under-represented in the ranks (the leadership itself is diverse!).

"To center a conversation about the DSA around the problematic discourse of a tangentially related podcast or an uncomfortable experience is erasure of queers, women, and poc who run the organization. Pretending the that the organization is a young white guy circle jerk is to overlook the organizational power of minorities who are opressed by centrist liberalism."

SO MUCH THIS and stating it isn't "sea lioning"- many, *many* women/POC on the left complain about this all of the time and how it's exhausting and utterly demoralizing for them to constantly be erased in one way or another. I'm white, but a woman, and I'm constantly frustrated to the point of rage with the my existence as a leftist either being denied, infantalized, or pathologized when mainstream liberals talk about people to the left of them. I look all around me at actions and protests and see /POC, particularly WOC everywhere. Who can forget the "female Bernie supporters are doing it to impress the boys"- it never dies.
posted by stagewhisper at 7:32 AM on August 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


What led to this? I'm totally an outsider and have no context.

It's complicated. FWIW, this is the perspective of someone that is very far-left politically, not a member of DSA, and in many ways a critic of DSA.

I would say criticisms come from three groups of people. The first group is people that is opposed to socialism -- even the watered-down "socialism" of the DSA -- on principle. This is, by far and away, the majority of people engaged in political discourse on the political left in the US. They use unthinking, reflexive accusations of various isms to tar the DSA to prevent it from emerging as a threat to mainstream US liberalism. It is not a conspiracy theory to point out that these people are prominent in basically all of the most esteemed center/left sources of opinion -- MSNBC, liberal think tanks, the Democratic Party, widely-read liberal bloggers, (Metafilter), etc.

The second group of people are people that are pointing out actual issues that they see or that they have had with DSA as an organization in good faith. The DSA's makeup is skewed towards educated white males -- hardly a unique issue in political organizations -- but it does seem to be drawing in many people who do not fit that description as well. I don't doubt that some have experienced unsavory political exchanges or interpersonal conflicts with particular members of DSA.

The third group of people are people are people from other left political traditions that have a partisan stance against social democracy. This is the domain of "Tankie twitter" and other such curiosities. (I would actually put my criticisms of DSA in this group, but they're not the ones that get the most play and not the ones, I don't think, that you're referring to so I'll leave them aside here.)

The criticisms from groups 1 and 3 are the most common, especially group 1. So when criticism of DSA is aired, even if it does from group 2, there's a temptation of people within DSA to dismiss it as the machinations of a "DNC apologist", as someone put it upthread. I think that's what's going on here.
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 7:44 AM on August 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Who can forget the "female Bernie supporters are doing it to impress the boys"- it never dies.

Literally yesterday, a prominent liberal twitter pundit called out women socialists as the "handmaidens" of Bernie-bros. But yeah, the DSA (not institutionalized misogyny) is the problem.
posted by R.F.Simpson at 7:51 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


SO MUCH THIS and stating it isn't "sea lioning"

The good news is that I didn't say that it was! I am talking about this very thread, where multiple people who have spoken up about their reluctance to join due to bad experiences have been rigorously questioned, asked for references, asked for memails, and then told that talking about those experiences at all is bad and wrong and anti-POC, anti-queer, anti-woman (which is rich, since the people I know who are the MOST jaded about red rose icons are largely queer WOC).

Look, I'm sorry that the loudest and worst of white dudes have become the overwhelming voice of an org that is trying to be intersectional. That sucks! It happens to a lot of orgs! White dudes are used to having the floor, and so they take it! But telling people who have experienced this dynamic that they are WRONG and should BE QUIET is not actually making it better. It is, however, ensuring that a lot of people who otherwise would love to get involved in their initiatives will never, never do so.

None of this is unique to the DSA. Toxic white dudes manage to ruin a lot of communities, from My Little Pony to "working in STEM fields". But for a movement that claims to be about solidarity and positivity to be so myopic regarding its own problems on this front is absurd. Positivity isn't supposed to mean "ignore the bad things and pretend they don't exist." Positivity is supposed to mean "we can and will do better".
posted by a fiendish thingy at 7:52 AM on August 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


They use unthinking, reflexive accusations of various isms to tar the DSA to prevent it from emerging as a threat to mainstream US liberalism.

Thanks for the explanation.
posted by FakeFreyja at 7:54 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also the most exciting thing at the NYC Convention was really hitting hard that we'd be a failure if we're just attracting "downward mobile millennials" and the urgent need to spread to not only groups not typically aligned with Socialism but groups that have fallen out of politics and voting altogether.
Interesting. Do you think that's a real goal, or more like a hypothetical, "somewhere down the line" goal? My strong sense is that the DSA tends to skew young, and that definitely seems to be backed up by, say, the DSA in Action gallery on the NYC DSA website. I think I spotted two people with gray hair in all those densely-populated pictures. I feel awfully young at a lot of Democrat events, but I think I would feel noticeably geriatric (and unhip) at DSA things. And while the socializing aspect is great, I wonder if a lot of people would not feel comfortable at the venues where this socializing takes place. Do they take that into account when they choose venues and attempt, for instance, to have some at places that are mostly frequented by PoC, middle-aged-and-up, and/or working-class people? At places that aren't bars?

(This is also an issue I have with the local Democrats, for what it's worth. They do a ton of socializing, and it tends to make things pretty cliquey. It's also hard to get to some of the venues where they have their events, and a lot of them are at bars, which can be an issue for people who don't drink for various reasons. During the 2016 election, we had a lot of volunteers from the local Sudanese community, and I'm not sure those people would feel comfortable at events at bars. So I don't think this is just a DSA thing. I think it's a matter of figuring out how to balance the need for fun solidarity with the need to embrace diverse constituencies.)

I don't know. I'm not the kind of person who would join the DSA, for several reasons, but I think they're doing good work locally. The Republicans took over the state legislature in 2016, which has been an absolute disaster for working-class people in my community, and the DSA folks are doing some very concrete, hands-on things to try to limit some of the damage. I think I'm basically pro-DSA. But I think they're pretty demographically specific, and I think that might be a limitation.
Finally, the dirtbag left. I would ask anyone that is wary of DSA because of them to remember that many (most?) of these people are quite young, are just getting into activist politics for the first time, and that they have come of age in one of the most repressive capitalist environments in at least two generations. It's incumbent on all of us to teach them to listen to people when they say they are being made uncomfortable, not to dismiss it.
This is kind of annoying, to be honest. Nobody is obligated to perform a lot of unpaid emotional and actual labor to educate people who despise them. And I'm not convinced that most dirtbag left people actually are all that young. I think this may be another example of how we tend to make excuses for white guys, treating them like wayward kids even when they're pushing middle age.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:55 AM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


I think being infantalized as a woman is just... we're soaking in it, anywhere we go. I've felt infantalized by other leftists plenty. Just like I've been infantalized by people on the right, people at work and people basically everywhere.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:00 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


That's a great explanation / overview Noisy Pink Bubbles and maps to what I've observed as well. Thanks!
posted by stagewhisper at 8:07 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


I know it's not the DSA's fault, but god I wish people like Connor Kilpatrick and lowenaffchen would be less prominent in online Left discourse.
posted by kmz at 8:16 AM on August 3, 2017


Mod note: Couple more comments removed. Folks, this really needs to get de-escalated and de-personalized and I think part of that is stepping away from making the tail end of this discussion an interrogation of the front end of it. There's an understandable but kind of thread-dooming tendency in political discussions to start wrapping extremely justifiable frustration with larger dynamics of a topic/subject/experience into the specific comments and commenters of a local discussion of that topic that tends to lead to things spiraling down into fractious you, no you stuff and I feel like we're ending up there now. So if you're commenting a bunch in here and/or going back and forth with someone else multiple times about how in fact they are the one who is wrong, I'm gonna ask that you step back at this point and let the discussion move past that.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:27 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Look, I'm sorry that the loudest and worst of white dudes have become the overwhelming voice of an org that is trying to be intersectional. That sucks! It happens to a lot of orgs! White dudes are used to having the floor, and so they take it! But telling people who have experienced this dynamic that they are WRONG and should BE QUIET is not actually making it better. It is, however, ensuring that a lot of people who otherwise would love to get involved in their initiatives will never, never do so.

a fiendish thingy, I am with you so hard. I am not a member of the DSA yet, even though I agree with most if not all of their positions, because it is exhausting to engage when there is the assumption that because I supported Hillary in the general that I do not support Bernie, and because I care about bodily autonomy that I don't care about economic justice. That is why the DSA has a woman-unfriendly image to me at this point in time, because that is the experience I have had with enough of its members. It does seem like things are improving on those fronts, though, and I am heartened to see that intersectionality is so prominent in their formal documents.

However, I have been unable to find much about their position on DC voting rights (and I mean DC specifically, I need more than just "we support voting rights for all"). Perhaps someone can help me out here?
posted by everybody had matching towels at 8:31 AM on August 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


My strong sense is that the DSA tends to skew young

It does. I would like data to back this up, but my gut sense is that this because the growth in membership has been mostly from young people--DSA was a quarter of its current size a year and a half ago. I've been involved in two locals, and my experiences have been very different primarily because of the age of the people most active in the chapter.
posted by Automocar at 8:34 AM on August 3, 2017


I think the DSA is desperately needed right now. I'm going to become official as soon as I have a few spare dollarydoos. I'm neck-deep in my local Dem party, and a lot of the more progressive wing are sympathetic to the DSA, if not members. And it's not just hipsters who have been telling me they've become "radicalized"--in the words of an older, working-class man I spoke with recently--by the excesses of a corporatized state and the failure of liberalism to actually protect us from the ravages of capitalism. None of these people I've encountered, despite being of the dreaded White Working Class, have been the "Socialism for Whites Only" strawmen of the socialist left that the media has been wringing their hands over. If anything, it's been nominally feminist white-collar white women who have been the strongest advocates for capitalism and liberal meritocracy in my circles.

Admittedly, I live in a suburban place that skews older and much more conservative than urban centers. My experience isn't representative of what anyone else here has experienced. I don't doubt that there are people on the Left who are sexist/racist jerks. If you encounter that, and you are a person with privilege that is recognized by the offender, then you really need to step up and explain why their behavior is causing an issue. Don't just wait for the person marginalized by the bad actor to bring you a grievance, either. Be proactive about this, Conrads.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 8:44 AM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


This is kind of annoying, to be honest. Nobody is obligated to perform a lot of unpaid emotional and actual labor to educate people who despise them.

I'm sorry, that part of my post was misunderstood and I apologize for not being clearer. By "all of us" I mean "all of DSA". It's our problem to fix, not yours, and I'm sorry for implying that it was.
posted by Automocar at 8:45 AM on August 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Old white bulls should let others run the show. Spend your time deepening your spiritual connection to the socialist movement, give money and time, build up your strength and stand ready as a reserve for the battles ahead. Young white bulls should try to become old white bulls.
posted by No Robots at 9:11 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Here's a helpful summary of the convention and the issues by DSA's East Bay section
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 9:53 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I take it that "bulls" means men? I think that one of the lessons from the Indivisible movement is that there is tremendous mostly-untapped power in the anger and frustration of older women. And the whole "work meekly behind the scenes while deepening your spiritual connection and letting other people lead" bullshit gets back to the whole thing about how you may want to avoid sounding like the less-appealing parts of evangelical Christian culture.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:58 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I take it that "bulls" means men?

Correct!

tremendous mostly-untapped power in the anger and frustration of older women

Totally!

The rest of your post I'll leave to someone more familiar with your concerns. You'll find me deepening my spiritual connections. :)
posted by No Robots at 10:06 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Who can forget the "female Bernie supporters are doing it to impress the boys"- it never dies.

Plot twist: the person who famously said this recently is herself a member of DSA as an honorary chair. DSA did, however, release a statement condemning it at the time. There is a constitutional amendment to abolish honorary chairs so this may change soon, however. (She also had a stint as an anti-Communist CIA agent, which IMHO a putatively socialist organization might find disconcerting!)
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 10:09 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


The hashtag for following the convention on twitter is #DSACon17 or #DSACon2017 and sometimes #beautifulsocialists for selfies
posted by The Whelk at 11:30 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


She also had a stint as an anti-Communist CIA agent , which IMHO a putatively socialist organization might find disconcerting!)

This is sort of like calling someone a McCarthyist for caring about Putin's interference in the 2016 election on behalf of Trump.

You can absolutely be a socialist and also totally against the horrific things China and the Soviet Union were doing in the name of communism in the late 50s early/60s. Mao's insistence on keeping export numbers up was starving literally millions of peasant farmers, The Soviet Union was still groping its way out from under Stalinism.

The odds of implementing socialism -- or communism -- effectively, broadly, the way we all want to see it implemented, are a lot higher if people can manage to separate ideology from execution.
posted by mrmurbles at 11:31 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Metafilter: If y'all think that acting like contemptuous trolls will attract people to your cause, have at it.
posted by zeusianfog at 11:33 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


The odds of implementing socialism -- or communism -- effectively, broadly, the way we all want to see it implemented, are a lot higher if people can manage to separate ideology from execution.

Separating ideology from execution is the only thing that makes Libertarianism seem attractive. It's like beer goggles for economic and social systems.
posted by Talez at 11:58 AM on August 3, 2017


I'm neck-deep in my local Dem party, and a lot of the more progressive wing are sympathetic to the DSA, if not member

*waves* yes, exactly the people I'm trying to target or outreach campaigns in local goverment. The goal is t always to make people members but to give the knowledge that there is this big, widespread yearning for leftist policy and ideals out there. Helps make you feel less alone in the wilderness.
posted by The Whelk at 12:08 PM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Interesting. Do you think that's a real goal, or more like a hypothetical, "somewhere down the line" goal?

It's a goal in that it comes up in every organizing meeting I've been privy too and an agenda item so like, you end up sending notes to people running Instagram accounts like hey we all like young pretty people but maybe out the focus on other people to help expand the appeal. (I'm lucky I live on the upper west side it's not hard to find older folk just on the edge of radicalization)
posted by The Whelk at 12:23 PM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Now, I think I'm thread-sitting because this feels like a nice space away from the Maddow-watching hoard

I'm sorry I know this was ages ago but HOW did no one make the 'far from the Maddow-ing crowd' joke???

also I had a meeting today with the people I'm starting a small business with and when I explained how I want decision-making to be shared, one of them was like 'you're kind of a socialist, huh?' and I was like '...mmmmaybe?'
posted by nonasuch at 2:19 PM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Convention is h a p p e n I n g
posted by The Whelk at 4:46 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm a long-time member of DSA, so I'll try to provide historical perspective. There was the old left, and long, long, ago Michael Harrington was part of the newer left. That Left had grown old by the time I was first active in the 1980's. As a young leftist I found DSA pretty embarrassing, when at conventions we had to sing "The Internationale" and "Union Maid" and everyone wore those Greek Fishing hats. I remember Odetta performing at a convention and mocking us. And we deserved it, because we'd argue forever who we should support for president and then choose *Fritz Mondale*. As a member of the "Youth Group" (well into my 30s) I participated in study groups where we read Gramsci and argued about Marx's theory of labor. Barbara Ehrenreich was impressed by our study group: it was masochistic. While our chapter was mostly male and mostly white, I don't remember anything really horrible, and we almost always worked in coalition with other groups who were considerably more diverse and we were founding members in our town's Rainbow Coalition. While we continued to be feeble at a national level (Dukakis? Dukakis?), at a local level we were nothing short of amazing. We were hard-working and understood politics and took over the local Democratic party structure and got elected as alderpeople, and eventually, mayor. We passed all kinds of good legislation (plant closing legislation, for instance) and dopey stuff (we were sister cities to I-don't-know-how-many places). We understood that these things were mostly symbolic (we had few "plants") but it was a tremendous training ground for people who went on to do good things in the Democratic party and Green party. Many of us are dormant, waiting for someone to need us to do something. We're still here.
posted by acrasis at 5:05 PM on August 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


Thanks for sharing that acrasis! And thank you for that work!
posted by latkes at 5:56 PM on August 3, 2017


When Trump is gone the reactionary ghouls still be back, and then the real fight begins
posted by The Whelk at 1:53 AM on August 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


posted by kliuless at 5:56 AM on August 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Also a nice thread on the need to do interventionist work openly as a socialist organization, something that could be organized very effectively on the local level with the smaller chapters - I'd love an officially sactioned how to guide...
posted by The Whelk at 6:31 AM on August 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Resolution 33 looks vital (and cute!)
posted by The Whelk at 8:00 AM on August 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


There is a streaming link!

40 min spent so far on a potential national greivence officer position and one of those big inspiring what's disgusting/union busting chants for the Nissian workers striking for a union.
posted by The Whelk at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Official streaming link
posted by The Whelk at 10:19 AM on August 4, 2017


CNN just used s photo of the DSA at Pride for an opinion article and you can see me and my painted banner but I am obviously checking my phone lol.
posted by The Whelk at 11:15 AM on August 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Oh yeah I forgot voting takes forever. (Some very inspiring speeches from the old guard who kept everything going, apparently it was helped by heavy focus on the YDS chapters)
posted by The Whelk at 3:22 PM on August 4, 2017


Will Trump backlash make American socialists great again? (CNN)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:27 PM on August 4, 2017


Computer, enhance
posted by The Whelk at 3:34 PM on August 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's really interesting how almost none of the commentary here is related to any of the links in the OPP and is instead focused on the DSA itself. I have to wonder how many of the commenters in this thread even followed the links, and it's hard not to answer myself with "almost none." Hope I'm wrong.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:38 PM on August 4, 2017


There's a raging debate on if the option to pay monthly dues was right to fail or not , it's settling down into "we can bring it uo next time/make it a voluntary by chapter thing" which I stay agree with.

I do think the NPC needs to be expanded but that lost by a slim margin and will get passed next time it goes up, I'm sure of it

I'm pretty surprised by the CNN article, like actual respectable conversations by large media. Bustle has a nice little "hey look at what these people are doing" piece with a dumb Millenials! Angle but what can you do.
posted by The Whelk at 3:55 PM on August 4, 2017


And the obligatory denunciation of DSA by WSWS, but what can you do.

Is there any official (or unofficial) website where the results of the voting on resolutions, etc. is being recorded?
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 4:07 PM on August 4, 2017


As for platforms, it gets real nitty gritty but Praxis is closer to my ideal but I really like the labor focus of momentum. Spring platform seems a bit ...vague. That being said, people keep saying they're voting for people not platforms so we're bound to end up with a mix . I don't see one platform dominating and that's good, big tent/multi-tendency , etc.

(There's some drama WITHIN the platforms and NPC races but it's extremly parliamentary and boring and don't know how much of it is even relevant now!)

Not super okay with all these things being tabled to a yet unlected NoC
posted by The Whelk at 4:11 PM on August 4, 2017


(Results should be up on the convention website by day's end but I'm not too sure, it's getting hard to follow on twitter tbh)
posted by The Whelk at 4:19 PM on August 4, 2017


UPDATE, monthly pay,nets will be an option/priority for NPC, R33 (harassment policy) has passed overwhelmingly yes.
posted by The Whelk at 4:38 PM on August 4, 2017


live stream
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:04 PM on August 4, 2017


Can Socialism Save the Democratic Party?

The Democratic Socialists of America hit 25,000 members. Here’s why this could mark a political turning point

DSA Celebrate Record Membership in Chicago. Now What?

9 questions about the Democratic Socialists of America you were too embarrassed to ask

posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:49 AM on August 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


My TL is full of hilariously hungover comrades
posted by The Whelk at 6:30 AM on August 5, 2017


Also Praxis is getting the social media support out hard, def the scrappiest platform.
posted by The Whelk at 6:31 AM on August 5, 2017


There's a nice "So why are you in DSA" video here, lots of diversity!
posted by The Whelk at 8:20 AM on August 5, 2017


DSA votes to endorse BDS
posted by indubitable at 9:27 AM on August 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Labor Comission passes without debate, POC/afrosocialist passes, YDS now the YDSA and full support for leaving the Socialist International
posted by The Whelk at 2:09 PM on August 5, 2017


Very informative thread about the the debates and how the voting went
posted by The Whelk at 5:16 PM on August 5, 2017


For the national fundraiser, Greater Baltimore just donated $420.69

Really.
posted by The Whelk at 8:20 PM on August 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


over 100K raised tonight from the regional chapters!
posted by The Whelk at 9:02 PM on August 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Nice.
posted by indubitable at 7:34 AM on August 6, 2017


YAY RAVI IS ON THE NPC YAY
posted by The Whelk at 11:07 AM on August 6, 2017


Conference ends with singing / chanting:

Internationale

"A-Anti-Anticapitalista"

"O, Jeremy Corbyn"

"This is Class War; Eat the Rich and Feed the Poor"
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:22 PM on August 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also after all the DRAMAS Praxis and Momentum end up with roughly equal representation and a roughly equal independent bloc, good representation ratios.

EDIT:
4 Independent 5 Praxis 6 Momentum 1 Friends & Comrades
posted by The Whelk at 2:00 PM on August 6, 2017


Oh wait there's drama now one of the new NPC members used to represent a cop union and were mad.
posted by The Whelk at 2:16 PM on August 6, 2017


I read somewhere else that he could be removed by a 2/3 of the NPC, do you know if that's accurate?
posted by indubitable at 3:12 PM on August 6, 2017


That's what I read too.
posted by The Whelk at 3:16 PM on August 6, 2017


What would be the justification for his removal? Are cops not allowed in DSA? Are police union organizers not allowed on the national leadership? Seems like it would go both against the "big tent" spirit of DSA as well as the acceptance of police into social democratic organizations historically...

Also, how was the new NPC determined, exactly?
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 3:54 PM on August 6, 2017


11 of the 16 members of the new National Political Committee are women and/or POCs, by my count. If the DSA had a "bro" problem before, it looks like it won't last long.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 4:55 PM on August 6, 2017


Basically the talk is that he didn't disclose it and avoided the topic when it came up - the veterans group lead said they have ex-Cops and vets and they're upfront about their past, espicslly if they're running for elected office.

We're letting his home chapter deal with him first and there's general feeling he should resign for refusing to disclose his work with CLEAT. (Which he called 'Sicilian worker organizing' and didn't list his previous work on anything public)

This is complicated by the fact that he is well regarded as an organizer in Austin, so it's really upsetting he shot himself in the foot like this.
posted by The Whelk at 5:21 PM on August 6, 2017


CIVIL WORKER ORGANIZING

Nothing to do with people from Italian islands
posted by The Whelk at 5:27 PM on August 6, 2017


Can The Growing DSA Build a New, Current Left Wing?
posted by The Whelk at 8:04 PM on August 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yesterday, the passing of a resolution in support of BDS was celebrated with the chant FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA PALESTINE WILL BE FREE.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:26 PM on August 6, 2017


I've only seen one rage-quit and one negative article about DSA's BDS measure so far. Seems like the backlash is pretty subdued (so far).
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 5:28 AM on August 7, 2017


Yesterday, the passing of a resolution in support of BDS was celebrated with the chant FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA PALESTINE WILL BE FREE.

JFC. This is why we can't have nice things. I support an unoccupied, free Palestine. I think Israel settlement building in the West Bank is both a flagrant violation of international law and a major obstacle to peace in the region. The counterpoint to this is not chanting a war criminal's call for Israel's destruction. It's disgusting.

That's not to mention the stupidity of playing with fire on the electorate math. If the left embrace anti-semitism and subsume the Democrats we will see states that have come back in to play that have been blue strongholds for decades.
posted by Talez at 6:23 AM on August 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Nation: reviving America's socialist tradition
posted by The Whelk at 12:12 PM on August 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


New Republic: Is the DSA for real?
posted by The Whelk at 12:30 PM on August 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


“We can promise an army”: The Democratic Socialist plan to help progressives win America back
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:53 PM on August 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty surprised by the media response, it feels like a change in coverage tone is happening from "look at these wacky kids" to "curious new political movement"
posted by The Whelk at 4:25 PM on August 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


(I've also been having good conversations with more center-left democrats explaining what we want and who we are and it's been very productive! Hearts and minds, people really are starved for change.)
posted by The Whelk at 4:26 PM on August 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Chicagoist goes to the convention
posted by The Whelk at 4:31 PM on August 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Related lefty news, the people's policy project is live - donate to help create a left wing think tank to generate policy
posted by The Whelk at 4:41 PM on August 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Daily Beast : The Democratic Socialists are thinking nationally but acting locally
posted by The Whelk at 11:07 PM on August 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Some other people upset about the DSA's anti-BDS stance
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 8:29 AM on August 8, 2017


Great, so my choices are anti-israel or anti-choice.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:29 AM on August 8, 2017


In the wake of the cop-organizer-on-the-NPC brouhaha: Why The Left Opposes Police Unions

A couple conference summaries (from left-wing writers):

Successful Convention Moves DSA to Left

DSA Votes for BDS, Reparations, and Out of the Socialist International

posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 12:56 PM on August 8, 2017


Corey Robin on this piece in Tablet:
Democratic socialism is a large idea and a capacious movement. In the United States of the last half-century, however, it has mostly functioned, among an older generation of writers, as a state-issued license to bludgeon leftists who dare to stray from the Democratic Party or the State of Israel. Paul Berman is one of those writers. Read his *A Tale of Two Utopias* (I did; I wouldn't recommend it), which came out in 1996, and you'll notice that the Democratic Socialists of America earns only one mention from him. I can't say I've been reading him all that much since the early days of the War on Terror, but if DSA—or even democratic socialism as an idea—has figured strongly in his imagination or discourse, I missed it. Now, after a historic convention of DSA this past weekend, on the heels of a massive increase in membership and influx of younger men and women, Berman is suddenly interested in DSA. Why? Because it endorsed BDS. A move that earns the trademark Berman treatment: a breezy trip down memory lane, making just the right number of superficial nods to the left's Jewish past, only to arrive at the left's anti-Semitic present. I know this is a parochial pleasure on my part, but the fact that DSA has shed any and all association with this particular formation (Alexander Cockburn once described these types as denizens of the outer precincts of the Democratic Party, where nobody listened to them except when they'd periodically emerge to hose down the left) is all to the good.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:34 PM on August 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Inside the biggest gathering of American socialists in decades (The Week)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 9:45 PM on August 8, 2017


Four Days with America's Socialist Party
posted by The Whelk at 10:19 PM on August 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


-Carl Sagan predicted 2017 on page 40 of The Demon Haunted World. Published in 1996.
I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time - when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness. The dumbing down of America is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30-second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance.
-"Achieving Our Country"
-What's Next for Progressives?
-Inside Bernie Sanders's campaign to save Obamacare
-Buried in health care imbroglio, trillion-dollar questions
-Expanding the EITC: The Path to a Smarter Social Safety Net
-Broken Politics of the United States, in One Simple Chart
-Creating new wealth on Sardinia, without cash
-Choice in economics
posted by kliuless at 11:14 PM on August 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Are the Socialists Here to Ruin Everything?
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 9:54 AM on August 10, 2017


Meet the Young Socialists Of Color Leading The Revolution
posted by The Whelk at 1:23 PM on August 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Meet the Young Socialists Of Color Leading The Revolution
Yes, precisely.

Related:
How Identity Became a Weapon Used Against the Left (Current Affairs):
Twitter has been an especially revealing host forum to this ugly friction between identity and ideology: there, unapologetically leftist people of color and women are routinely shouted down, called race traitors, self-hating women, or, incredibly, are accused of being white—even by people with white-presenting avatars. Twitter is where you can find a liberal Democrat referring to Our Revolution president Nina Turner as “Bernie’s Omarosa.” It’s disorienting to see white (and black) liberals calling leftists of color sellouts, Uncle Toms, “coons,” house-slaves, and well, white people, all in the name of anti-racism. But the Bernie Bro framework tells us that all the racists are at the fringes of the political spectrum, while the middle remains pure. Progressive women or leftists of color therefore present a kind of glitch in the matrix. The solution? Deny our existence. Leftists of color are regularly told—by white liberals!—that we are white and/or secretly racist. And while stories about the sexism Clinton supporters faced online are familiar, the racism and sexism directed by the center against the left are ignored. Purported anti-racist Democrats stayed largely silent as an Islamophobic smear campaign was waged against progressive black Muslim Representative Keith Ellison, one of the ugliest instances of bigotry to come out of the Democratic Party in recent history.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:11 PM on August 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


So it looks like this Fetonte guy isn't going quietly, despite many calling for his resignation from the NPC...
posted by Noisy Pink Bubbles at 10:17 PM on August 13, 2017


Socialism: As American As Apple Pie, a graphic history of socialism in the US (The Nib).
posted by Joseph Gurl at 1:12 AM on August 18, 2017


Thats worthy of its own post I think
posted by The Whelk at 8:35 AM on August 18, 2017 [1 favorite]


The “S” Word Lives (Maxine Phillips, 30-something-year DSA veteran)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:42 PM on August 18, 2017


Beyond the ‘Bernie bro’: Socialism’s diverse new youth brigade (Reader)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:43 PM on August 23, 2017


The Bronx/Upper Manhattan DSA branch gets on Bronx TV
posted by The Whelk at 8:57 PM on August 23, 2017


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