America's midlife crisis
August 3, 2017 7:26 AM Subscribe
"Stephen Marche attends the Ohio Preppers and Survivalist Summit and discovers the contradictions in American life are the very conditions that are slowly crumbling it from within."...An easily readable insight into the American situation for my foreign eyes.
"Painfully smug asshole goes to another country and discovers the ability to point and say "tut-tut""
posted by cyphill at 8:04 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by cyphill at 8:04 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
So he goes and seeks out the most awful people in another country and then generalizes about the rest of us here?
posted by octothorpe at 8:08 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 8:08 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Middle age, for people and for countries, is a reckoning much more uncomfortable than a collapse: you find out who you are.
"I went to America and I found me."
posted by chavenet at 8:15 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
"I went to America and I found me."
posted by chavenet at 8:15 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Every American I know is – even if it’s just emotionally – preparing for a fall.
Dude needs to meet more Americans. Most of us are oblivious.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:16 AM on August 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
Dude needs to meet more Americans. Most of us are oblivious.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:16 AM on August 3, 2017 [14 favorites]
the contradictions in American life are the very conditions that are slowly crumbling it from within
Is it just me, or does this subtitle not quite make sense?
posted by mary8nne at 8:19 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Is it just me, or does this subtitle not quite make sense?
posted by mary8nne at 8:19 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
The FBI version of events is that Finicum was shot while reaching for a firearm, and that while he was being arrested he shouted: “Go ahead and shoot me. You’re going to have to shoot me.”It's a small, but very important point - LaToilet* was shot by the Oregon State Police, not the FBI. He had run from the original stop into a second roadblock. The two FBI agents there did fire two shots, and then lied about that in the police reports, for god only knows what reason. But the armed bad guy who was on record as saying he would shoot to kill law enforcement only got shot by state cops, and not the feds.
*his brand is literally a toilet. You can google it.
She discovered that the federal government holds “80%” of land in the west, land to which it is not entitledThe Utah State Constitution says (Art3, sec2) : The people inhabiting this State do affirm and declare that they forever disclaim all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within the boundaries hereof, and to all lands lying within said limits owned or held by any Indian or Indian tribes, and that until the title thereto shall have been extinguished by the United States, the same shall be and remain subject to the disposition of the United States, and said Indian lands shall remain under the absolute jurisdiction and control of the Congress of the United States.
Nevada and other states have similar clauses. The people of those states did not want that land at the time - filled with natives and otherwise considered worthless. Now that there are roads and such, they figger they can just take it. But, we made a deal, Kyle. We made a deal.
The real irony with these idiots is that they talk so much about history, and so very terribly inexplicably bad at it.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:24 AM on August 3, 2017 [37 favorites]
Nobody speaks ill of Waffles House and gets away with it.
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:25 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 8:25 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
I think the author needs to divorce his own luggage from what could have been a series of decent observations of preppers. The bit about prepping for the catastrophe they want rather than what might be was good. No one preps for the long, slow starvation.
Or Venus.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:26 AM on August 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
Or Venus.
posted by Slackermagee at 8:26 AM on August 3, 2017 [7 favorites]
He seemed to have us nailed to me.
posted by enn at 8:31 AM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by enn at 8:31 AM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Forget Waffle House; if he wanted a really cool shirt he should have gotten one from Buc-ee's.
posted by orrnyereg at 8:36 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by orrnyereg at 8:36 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Lol at my fellow Americans really not liking this.
posted by os tuberoes at 8:43 AM on August 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by os tuberoes at 8:43 AM on August 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
"To an outsider, the American obsession with the constitution is starting to look pathological."
de Tocqueville you're not, buddy.
posted by Herodios at 8:44 AM on August 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
de Tocqueville you're not, buddy.
posted by Herodios at 8:44 AM on August 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
I have to say that I have a very different take on the article than many of you. This article finally pushed me over the edge and got me to become a member of the Guardian. They really are doing bettter journalism in the US than most of the news media that are based here.
posted by TedW at 8:51 AM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by TedW at 8:51 AM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
"I say, Nigel, let's go to one of those so-called Fly-Over states in America, and laugh in a superior manner at all the peasants that we meet. Aren't we special for being better than they are?" -arrogant English writer-man
posted by theorique at 9:02 AM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by theorique at 9:02 AM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Typical Guardian spank-piece: pick some group their audience would find contemptible (preppers!) and wrap it in a clever sounding but superficial premise you can bust out at your next dinner party (midlife crisis!)
(Also Marche is an arrogant Canadian writer-man)
posted by Frank Exchange Of Views at 9:07 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
(Also Marche is an arrogant Canadian writer-man)
posted by Frank Exchange Of Views at 9:07 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
I wish I could have purchased stock in "Comments in this thread will be overly defensive" as soon as I started the article.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:08 AM on August 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 9:08 AM on August 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
looking at the reflexive defensiveness in this thread and wondering if i accidentally wandered into fox news or something
posted by entropicamericana at 9:14 AM on August 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:14 AM on August 3, 2017 [16 favorites]
"To an outsider, the American obsession with the constitution is starting to look pathological."
Don't look now, mate, but the English constitution is going all pear-shaped, too.
(I haven't RTFA and I'd probably agree with everything he says about preppers, tho not necessarily with what he says about Waffle House.)
posted by octobersurprise at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Don't look now, mate, but the English constitution is going all pear-shaped, too.
(I haven't RTFA and I'd probably agree with everything he says about preppers, tho not necessarily with what he says about Waffle House.)
posted by octobersurprise at 9:16 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
I actually think it's a pretty good article about Preppers (not that there haven't been umpteen articles about them already--they are our homegrown nutjobs). I'm less convinced about its extrapolation to a macro level, but don't think it's poorly conceived. I just thought the "all Americans are preparing for some sort of coming disaster" line was funny. We're far too lazy and disengaged for all that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:17 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:17 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Glancing at this author's other work reveals he really likes to write about the "underlying turbulence on which supposedly liberal facades rest". Lots of articles about the symbolism of Rob Ford and how Ford is more representative of America than Toronto or Canada (guess where the author the author lives). He even wrote an article excoriating progressives for mocking Ford's drug addiction and weight, yet continuously mocks both those things himself. Seeems like his career is literally pointing at people and saying "you are doing it wrong" without the slightest bit of self-reflection. Hard Pass. (And to those who think what America REALLY NEEDS right now is a mocking article from a guy who ironically purchases Waffle Hut clothing and pink toy machine guns, maybe rethink the usefulness of that).
posted by cyphill at 9:17 AM on August 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
posted by cyphill at 9:17 AM on August 3, 2017 [17 favorites]
I went to Bowling Green to answer a question that had been haunting me from the Canadian sidelines since the election: is America falling apart for real this time?
and so on, for a few paragraphs - it's interesting how we're talking about the preppers, or about the reporter who is snarking about them and not talking about the very real mid-life crisis point - "is that all there is? what the hell is happening? now what happens? is it all falling apart?"
yes, a good part of the country has always like to talk about DOOM - but now it's something that has some factual basis
posted by pyramid termite at 9:19 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
and so on, for a few paragraphs - it's interesting how we're talking about the preppers, or about the reporter who is snarking about them and not talking about the very real mid-life crisis point - "is that all there is? what the hell is happening? now what happens? is it all falling apart?"
yes, a good part of the country has always like to talk about DOOM - but now it's something that has some factual basis
posted by pyramid termite at 9:19 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
No longer will I stay awake wondering what would happen if opposite-world David Brooks decided to write long-form essays.
posted by jpe at 9:21 AM on August 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
posted by jpe at 9:21 AM on August 3, 2017 [10 favorites]
Man, tough crowd. The other thing he mentions about how they're "prepping for the catastrophe they want" is that the catastrophe looks a lot like the American frontier-- people want to connect with their culture's "founding myth," and we can look at prepper culture through that lens. But the lesser-known part of life on the frontier is that frontier settlers demanded that the military come in to protect them from hostile native tribes and rival foreign settlers, not self-reliance.
Immigrants from the last 120 years or so will be disconnected from that founding myth because they arrived in cities and local metro area factory's towns, so this nostalgia is limited to a fixed American subculture.
Their closest experiences we have had "civlizational collapse" were Nazis and instances of ethnic cleansing/displacement. We already know how to handle those kinds of common crises: grow your own food to deal with interruption of food deliveries during a military occupation, and getting the hell out of the country before you are expelled or killed by force. Some other good advice I could give would be to have good relations with neighboring towns and rival tribes as a buffer between yourself and hostile invaders or other governments trying to kill you, because you want to make alliances with the people who are going to protect you.
The last option is guerrilla war, and that's what stockpiling guns and long term survival is about. What these guys are unwilling to admit is that joining a guerrilla militia is the province of young people with military training and without families. These guys aren't going to be involved with that, and they're not going to be of any help even if they were.
You know what would be great "training" and prepping? Training people to handle dispute resolution. Training people to make cooperative agreements with other groups and keep the agreements together. How to deal with "spoilers" who will wreck alliances and agreements because of their ego and persistence. These are all the most important skills that you can have when old authorities fail and supply chains are interrupted. My guess is that none of these guys would know how to handle any of that.
posted by deanc at 9:33 AM on August 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
Immigrants from the last 120 years or so will be disconnected from that founding myth because they arrived in cities and local metro area factory's towns, so this nostalgia is limited to a fixed American subculture.
Their closest experiences we have had "civlizational collapse" were Nazis and instances of ethnic cleansing/displacement. We already know how to handle those kinds of common crises: grow your own food to deal with interruption of food deliveries during a military occupation, and getting the hell out of the country before you are expelled or killed by force. Some other good advice I could give would be to have good relations with neighboring towns and rival tribes as a buffer between yourself and hostile invaders or other governments trying to kill you, because you want to make alliances with the people who are going to protect you.
The last option is guerrilla war, and that's what stockpiling guns and long term survival is about. What these guys are unwilling to admit is that joining a guerrilla militia is the province of young people with military training and without families. These guys aren't going to be involved with that, and they're not going to be of any help even if they were.
You know what would be great "training" and prepping? Training people to handle dispute resolution. Training people to make cooperative agreements with other groups and keep the agreements together. How to deal with "spoilers" who will wreck alliances and agreements because of their ego and persistence. These are all the most important skills that you can have when old authorities fail and supply chains are interrupted. My guess is that none of these guys would know how to handle any of that.
posted by deanc at 9:33 AM on August 3, 2017 [45 favorites]
"prepping for the catastrophe they want"
I'm far less charitable. They're prepping for any old time where they get to kill people they don't like and not get in trouble. Right now, they're just LARPing (as the author mentions--collaborative storytelling with props is LARP) but there is a not insignificant percent who are just itching to get in their first kill and really don't try too hard to hide it.
(This is why I just can't with--as the kids say--The Walking Dead and similar zombie media any more. It became far too clear to me that the fantasy here for many viewers is a future in which they get to kill other humans and it's okay.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:44 AM on August 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
I'm far less charitable. They're prepping for any old time where they get to kill people they don't like and not get in trouble. Right now, they're just LARPing (as the author mentions--collaborative storytelling with props is LARP) but there is a not insignificant percent who are just itching to get in their first kill and really don't try too hard to hide it.
(This is why I just can't with--as the kids say--The Walking Dead and similar zombie media any more. It became far too clear to me that the fantasy here for many viewers is a future in which they get to kill other humans and it's okay.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:44 AM on August 3, 2017 [38 favorites]
I liked this article a lot better than the other "Should we stop keeping pets?" "Why your favourite TV show is problematic" stale popcorn The Guardian's been cranking out of their scold-o-bot device lately. And yet I read it anyway.
posted by lagomorphius at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by lagomorphius at 9:45 AM on August 3, 2017 [3 favorites]
i live in the west and basically all the people i know are preparing for some sort of coming disaster, whether it's left-wingers (mostly mentally) preparing for real and looming disasters like the end of democratic norms, the collapse of our republic, and ecological disaster due to climate change, or deranged preppers like the ones in the article preparing for agenda 21 or whatever the fuck the paranoid fantasy of the week is
posted by entropicamericana at 9:47 AM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 9:47 AM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
about the reporter who is snarking about them and not talking about the very real mid-life crisis point - "is that all there is? what the hell is happening? now what happens? is it all falling apart?"
I possess thoughts. The first of which is a conversation I had with a prepper acquaintance who asserted that the US is collapsing just like the Roman Empire did. To which I replied over the course of 1500 years and still somewhat exists... and he looked at me as though I had 3 eyes. In his version of history, Rome collapsed, totally and completely from 400-450ad and the dark ages fell immediately after with a thousand years of disease decay and death.
It's.... well, you can't reach people who think this. It's not even wrong. And anyway, the Roman, French, Spanish and British empires have all collapsed and .... for regular people doing regular people things in regular people places, life didn't change much from what it was before. Hell, Spain was ruled for 35 years by a man so inbred he couldn't feed himself, and we get told that 4 more years of Obama will destroy literally everything.
They utterly lack perspective, and I don't know if it's the limits of their intellect or laziness that drive the desire to seek only that which re-affirms their anxieties. But, as with all things - this is not a new phenomenon either, and pig-ignorance has long been a staple of politics, especially in America - from the Know-Nothings on up. We pride ourselves on knowing just enough to be dangerous, and it's no good trying to find some middle ground with someone who is already the hoopiest of froods.
Conservatism is a culture - they don't hold onto their tenets in some intellectual capacity. You might as well try to argue a priest out of transubstantiation. It can't be done, and you're foolish to try.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:47 AM on August 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
I possess thoughts. The first of which is a conversation I had with a prepper acquaintance who asserted that the US is collapsing just like the Roman Empire did. To which I replied over the course of 1500 years and still somewhat exists... and he looked at me as though I had 3 eyes. In his version of history, Rome collapsed, totally and completely from 400-450ad and the dark ages fell immediately after with a thousand years of disease decay and death.
It's.... well, you can't reach people who think this. It's not even wrong. And anyway, the Roman, French, Spanish and British empires have all collapsed and .... for regular people doing regular people things in regular people places, life didn't change much from what it was before. Hell, Spain was ruled for 35 years by a man so inbred he couldn't feed himself, and we get told that 4 more years of Obama will destroy literally everything.
They utterly lack perspective, and I don't know if it's the limits of their intellect or laziness that drive the desire to seek only that which re-affirms their anxieties. But, as with all things - this is not a new phenomenon either, and pig-ignorance has long been a staple of politics, especially in America - from the Know-Nothings on up. We pride ourselves on knowing just enough to be dangerous, and it's no good trying to find some middle ground with someone who is already the hoopiest of froods.
Conservatism is a culture - they don't hold onto their tenets in some intellectual capacity. You might as well try to argue a priest out of transubstantiation. It can't be done, and you're foolish to try.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:47 AM on August 3, 2017 [42 favorites]
Is this the Bowling Green Massacre I've heard so much about?
posted by one for the books at 9:48 AM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by one for the books at 9:48 AM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Is "prepping" related to "conservatism"? It seems more like an apocalyptic death cult with cool toys than a political philosophy.
posted by theorique at 9:49 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by theorique at 9:49 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
It seems more like an apocalyptic death cult with cool toys than a political philosophy.
basically the gop in a nutshell
posted by entropicamericana at 9:54 AM on August 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
basically the gop in a nutshell
posted by entropicamericana at 9:54 AM on August 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
Is this the Bowling Green Massacre I've heard so much about?
This one is 400 miles from that one.
posted by Herodios at 10:02 AM on August 3, 2017
This one is 400 miles from that one.
posted by Herodios at 10:02 AM on August 3, 2017
Comments in this thread will be overly defensive
>the reflexive defensiveness in this thread
On one hand yes, on the other, Marche probably can't write a grocery list without coming off as a putz.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:19 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
>the reflexive defensiveness in this thread
On one hand yes, on the other, Marche probably can't write a grocery list without coming off as a putz.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:19 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
the Roman, French, Spanish and British empires have all collapsed and .... for regular people doing regular people things in regular people places, life didn't change much from what it was before.
Are you sure about that?
posted by amtho at 10:42 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Are you sure about that?
posted by amtho at 10:42 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
As a former resident of Bowling Green I must say people here are missing the most astonishing fact about this article. Namely, how the hell is the Woodland Mall still open??? That mall was half-dead when I lived there in the early 1990s, was deader still in the late 90s and early 00s, and was virtually empty on my last visit in 2012.
posted by plastic_animals at 10:48 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by plastic_animals at 10:48 AM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Some good lines in the article. "The constitution has stopped being a political document and become a religious object" was spot-on, for instance (true for conservatives and liberals alike). It extrapolated too much from its observations, of course, as such pieces often do.
My uncle sold his enormous, dilapidated house in a relatively isolated (but close enough to buy supplies and get to the interstate) area of Pennsylvania to a wealthy prepper who moved there with his young wife and their baby. A few years later, the wife divorced him and it was up for sale again. Everyday disasters are so much more probable than the apocalyptic ones we fantasize,
speaking as someone who was alive during the Cuban Missile Crisis and for more than a decade was sure atomic bombs were going to be dropped on us any day. Still waiting. Still alive. Living in an urban area where I can take the bus to the Whole Foods for my sustenance.
Though I do sometimes reflect that I'm glad I live in an area where there are few earthquakes, tornadoes, or hurricanes, and where my house is far above any possible flood even if the ice caps melt.
posted by Peach at 10:59 AM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
My uncle sold his enormous, dilapidated house in a relatively isolated (but close enough to buy supplies and get to the interstate) area of Pennsylvania to a wealthy prepper who moved there with his young wife and their baby. A few years later, the wife divorced him and it was up for sale again. Everyday disasters are so much more probable than the apocalyptic ones we fantasize,
speaking as someone who was alive during the Cuban Missile Crisis and for more than a decade was sure atomic bombs were going to be dropped on us any day. Still waiting. Still alive. Living in an urban area where I can take the bus to the Whole Foods for my sustenance.
Though I do sometimes reflect that I'm glad I live in an area where there are few earthquakes, tornadoes, or hurricanes, and where my house is far above any possible flood even if the ice caps melt.
posted by Peach at 10:59 AM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
If preppers were serious about ensuring the survival of their families in a situation where society no longer functions, they'd learn a lot more about domestic tasks rather than spend their time shopping for tactical gadgets. But that's boring. Imagining you will be remade as some sort of Judge Dredd and you'll finally take your revenge on all the neighbors and ethnic teens who failed to defer to your preferences in all things is what most preppers are actually about. They hate the government wherever it doesn't give them reverence. That's why they're able to be both anti-government and pro-police/military.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:11 AM on August 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by Kitty Stardust at 11:11 AM on August 3, 2017 [13 favorites]
the Roman, French, Spanish and British empires have all collapsed and .... for regular people doing regular people things in regular people places, life didn't change much from what it was before.
Are you sure about that?
Yeah. I mean, if you're sheepherder in UpperLowerNorthSouthHamptonShire in 500, the tax you paid to the Romans more or less the tax you paid to the local warlord in 600 after the Romans left and the tax you paid in 700 when that warlord got killed by some other one. The sheep got herded more or less the same. Its not like society collapsed entirely and everyone had to re-invent it. It wasn't any more Mad Max than it was to start with - the basic contours of day to day life remained.
This is the part that I think preppers seem to miss. After some destabilizing event, people prefer to return to some normalcy, even as what is "normal" gets redefined somewhat for whatever reasons, and that tendency acts as a stabilizing influence. They envision a complete breakdown of all society, and... that doesn't happen, and never has on more than a local(ish) scale.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:29 AM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Are you sure about that?
Yeah. I mean, if you're sheepherder in UpperLowerNorthSouthHamptonShire in 500, the tax you paid to the Romans more or less the tax you paid to the local warlord in 600 after the Romans left and the tax you paid in 700 when that warlord got killed by some other one. The sheep got herded more or less the same. Its not like society collapsed entirely and everyone had to re-invent it. It wasn't any more Mad Max than it was to start with - the basic contours of day to day life remained.
This is the part that I think preppers seem to miss. After some destabilizing event, people prefer to return to some normalcy, even as what is "normal" gets redefined somewhat for whatever reasons, and that tendency acts as a stabilizing influence. They envision a complete breakdown of all society, and... that doesn't happen, and never has on more than a local(ish) scale.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 11:29 AM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Are you sure about that?
there's a big difference between an empire collapsing and a civilization collapsing - i'm thinking that the average roman citizen or slave didn't notice; most of them were in the eastern half of the empire, which didn't collapse at all
remember that the roman empire's technology wasn't that advanced, unlike ours
on preview, i don't think you can compare the effects of a low-tech civilization having a breakdown to something like ours breaking down - it's not happened yet, and we can't really say
posted by pyramid termite at 11:40 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
there's a big difference between an empire collapsing and a civilization collapsing - i'm thinking that the average roman citizen or slave didn't notice; most of them were in the eastern half of the empire, which didn't collapse at all
remember that the roman empire's technology wasn't that advanced, unlike ours
on preview, i don't think you can compare the effects of a low-tech civilization having a breakdown to something like ours breaking down - it's not happened yet, and we can't really say
posted by pyramid termite at 11:40 AM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
People aren't just preparing for the apocalypse they want, or to kill people they don't like - they're preparing for a world that contracts to manageable size where they have some control over their destinies. They're preparing for a world in which they matter. They're doing it in a perverse, unrealistic, racist and harmful way, yes, but every dystopia is a utopia inside-out. In the post-collapse future that they imagine, it's not just that they think they'll be kings of the roost or whatever - it's that they think they'll be able to feed themselves, treat their health problems themselves, no longer have to worry about a mortgage, no longer have to worry about getting fired or laid off. You can't get fired from the apocalypse, and the other thing about the post-collapse world they're envisioning is that it's not a cash society. For some people, they're thinking "aha, I'll shoot bad guys and take their stuff"; others are thinking, "I will keep my home by virtue of having it, not because I could still make rent on the first".
The thing about the fantasy apocalypse is that you know what you're getting. It may be bad but it's predictable. (Obviously, a real apocalypse wouldn't be.)
I never thought of this before, but maybe one reason the US is such an apocalypse-oriented society is precisely because we're a comparatively young country with comparatively loose social bonds - the apocalypse is a predictable, stable idea in a shifting world.
posted by Frowner at 11:42 AM on August 3, 2017 [70 favorites]
The thing about the fantasy apocalypse is that you know what you're getting. It may be bad but it's predictable. (Obviously, a real apocalypse wouldn't be.)
I never thought of this before, but maybe one reason the US is such an apocalypse-oriented society is precisely because we're a comparatively young country with comparatively loose social bonds - the apocalypse is a predictable, stable idea in a shifting world.
posted by Frowner at 11:42 AM on August 3, 2017 [70 favorites]
To an outsider, the American obsession with the constitution is starting to look pathological.
Would that be the obsession to follow it "as the founders intended", or the obsession to rip it up entirely?
posted by Thorzdad at 11:49 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Would that be the obsession to follow it "as the founders intended", or the obsession to rip it up entirely?
posted by Thorzdad at 11:49 AM on August 3, 2017 [1 favorite]
Someone pay Frowner. That was twenty times more insightful than the linked column. Apolcalypses cause predictable immediate problems which (in fiction) create the black and white choice of do this or die. In this fantasy the prepper has all the control. By preparing for the fantasy, they can pretend they have control over things in their current life. They can excuse selfishness, hoarding and greed as preparation.
posted by cyphill at 11:54 AM on August 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
posted by cyphill at 11:54 AM on August 3, 2017 [15 favorites]
This is the part that I think preppers seem to miss. After some destabilizing event, people prefer to return to some normalcy, even as what is "normal" gets redefined somewhat for whatever reasons, and that tendency acts as a stabilizing influence. They envision a complete breakdown of all society, and... that doesn't happen, and never has on more than a local(ish) scale.
Heh. I spent almost every Fanfare thread about The Walking Dead critiquing it on those same grounds before I dropped the show: every time disaster strikes, be it plague, environmental event, war, etc., people put civilization back together because that's what works. We never turn into roving, family sized bands like the preppers fantasize about because it is so painfully inefficient, and the gains from teaming up are so obvious and huge.
Some good lines in the article.
This is where I'm at with it. The author has got some valid points tucked away in the tortured midlife crisis analogy and overly broad generalizations. I like the bit about 'prepping for the disaster you want,' as has already been mentioned. I also couldn't help but laugh at the bit about how the press is in trouble because Americans are perfectly happy without facts. It's sad but true, and not limited to conservatives. (Or Americans, but given our relative power in the world, it scares me more here at home.)
People aren't just preparing for the apocalypse they want, or to kill people they don't like - they're preparing for a world that contracts to manageable size where they have some control over their destinies.
This is quite true, and upon preview, cyphill's right about you. ;)
Relatedly, I also think it's a search for meaning - Fred Clark talks about this a lot over at Slacktivist, but a lot of paranoid fantasies involve the participants wanting to imagine themselves as heroic. Doing good deeds, rather than just feeding their own fear. Prepping seems to fit into the same kind of mindset: it can feel virtuous because it's about protecting your family.
posted by mordax at 12:00 PM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
Heh. I spent almost every Fanfare thread about The Walking Dead critiquing it on those same grounds before I dropped the show: every time disaster strikes, be it plague, environmental event, war, etc., people put civilization back together because that's what works. We never turn into roving, family sized bands like the preppers fantasize about because it is so painfully inefficient, and the gains from teaming up are so obvious and huge.
Some good lines in the article.
This is where I'm at with it. The author has got some valid points tucked away in the tortured midlife crisis analogy and overly broad generalizations. I like the bit about 'prepping for the disaster you want,' as has already been mentioned. I also couldn't help but laugh at the bit about how the press is in trouble because Americans are perfectly happy without facts. It's sad but true, and not limited to conservatives. (Or Americans, but given our relative power in the world, it scares me more here at home.)
People aren't just preparing for the apocalypse they want, or to kill people they don't like - they're preparing for a world that contracts to manageable size where they have some control over their destinies.
This is quite true, and upon preview, cyphill's right about you. ;)
Relatedly, I also think it's a search for meaning - Fred Clark talks about this a lot over at Slacktivist, but a lot of paranoid fantasies involve the participants wanting to imagine themselves as heroic. Doing good deeds, rather than just feeding their own fear. Prepping seems to fit into the same kind of mindset: it can feel virtuous because it's about protecting your family.
posted by mordax at 12:00 PM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
I guess what I am bothered by is that disaster preparation COULD be about studying communities that sustain themselves when they are out of the reach of government and traditional law & order. Or how to form associations with your neighbors to make sure that in the event of a disaster or power outage, everyone has access to food and water and medical care. These sorts of local bonds are important, and they've been fraying. That leads to the sort of alienation that, as Frowner says, leads people to be desperate to feel like they _matter_.
By far the best disaster preparation for me would be to find out who lives in our building, who can't use the stairs in the event the elevator went out, and how to make agreements to share food, water, and delegate responsibility. Instead of this, these guys are learning how to buy lots of guns and survivalist gadgets so they can role play at being "LAst Man on Earth" (LAME).
posted by deanc at 12:09 PM on August 3, 2017 [9 favorites]
i live in the west and basically all the people i know are preparing for some sort of coming disaster, whether it's left-wingers (mostly mentally) preparing for real and looming disasters like the end of democratic norms, the collapse of our republic, and ecological disaster due to climate change, or deranged preppers like the ones in the article preparing for agenda 21 or whatever the fuck the paranoid fantasy of the week is
So, I guess what it boils down to is:
I'm a prepper. He's a prepper. She's a prepper. We're a prepper. Wouldn't you like to be a prepper, too?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
So, I guess what it boils down to is:
I'm a prepper. He's a prepper. She's a prepper. We're a prepper. Wouldn't you like to be a prepper, too?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:11 PM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
on preview, i don't think you can compare the effects of a low-tech civilization having a breakdown to something like ours breaking down - it's not happened yet, and we can't really say
Sort of. Lets say America goes full Mad Max and all prepper dreams come true - what happens to.... Canada ? Mexico ? Hawaii, even ? Like... The apocalypse preppers envision would have to global and sudden and that leaves nuclear war, epidemic, and alien invasion. Every one of those is a lottery anyway. If it's not a global catastrophe, then all this "have 3 secret escape routes at all time" makes no sense, because you can just wait out whatever happened at home or thereabouts, and the places that weren't affected will aid the places that were.
Which is to say, Trump is a terrible person and president, but I fully expect to have to go to work and to pay my mortgage during and after his tenure.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:47 PM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Sort of. Lets say America goes full Mad Max and all prepper dreams come true - what happens to.... Canada ? Mexico ? Hawaii, even ? Like... The apocalypse preppers envision would have to global and sudden and that leaves nuclear war, epidemic, and alien invasion. Every one of those is a lottery anyway. If it's not a global catastrophe, then all this "have 3 secret escape routes at all time" makes no sense, because you can just wait out whatever happened at home or thereabouts, and the places that weren't affected will aid the places that were.
Which is to say, Trump is a terrible person and president, but I fully expect to have to go to work and to pay my mortgage during and after his tenure.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:47 PM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
plastic_animals:
posted by charred husk at 1:07 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
"As a former resident of Bowling Green I must say people here are missing the most astonishing fact about this article. Namely, how the hell is the Woodland Mall still open??? That mall was half-dead when I lived there in the early 1990s, was deader still in the late 90s and early 00s, and was virtually empty on my last visit in 2012."I think the space was purchased by the city itself so aside from traditional mall functions (which is doesn't do much of aside from the movie theater) it acts as a "community center" for various events. Like this prepper convention.
posted by charred husk at 1:07 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nobody speaks ill of Waffles House and gets away with it.Nobody who defends Waffle House has any hope of catching us.
posted by eotvos at 1:29 PM on August 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
My coworker likes to hatewatch the prepper videos on YouTube. She just can't get over how bad they are at canning and preserving stuff. "Whoa, dude, you're on a one-way trip to botulism central!"
Me, I figure if SHTF I'll move to Antartica and become a shoggoth wrangler.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Me, I figure if SHTF I'll move to Antartica and become a shoggoth wrangler.
posted by The Ardship of Cambry at 1:35 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Nobody speaks ill of Waffles House and gets away with it.
Nobody who defends Waffle House has any hope of catching us.
Waffle House was a favorite stop of the ultramarathoners I used to hang out with. Not to mention Steak 'n Shake and Culver's.
posted by lagomorphius at 1:36 PM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Nobody who defends Waffle House has any hope of catching us.
Waffle House was a favorite stop of the ultramarathoners I used to hang out with. Not to mention Steak 'n Shake and Culver's.
posted by lagomorphius at 1:36 PM on August 3, 2017 [4 favorites]
Lol at my fellow Americans really not liking this.
Eh, it's probably completely correct in its assessments but I couldn't get past the fat-shaming and gave up 1/3 of the way through. Dude has the entirety of the past 6 months to go on and he decides to make fun of Trump's hair and neck fat?
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:47 PM on August 3, 2017
Eh, it's probably completely correct in its assessments but I couldn't get past the fat-shaming and gave up 1/3 of the way through. Dude has the entirety of the past 6 months to go on and he decides to make fun of Trump's hair and neck fat?
posted by chainsofreedom at 1:47 PM on August 3, 2017
The other thing he mentions about how they're "prepping for the catastrophe they want" is that the catastrophe looks a lot like the American frontier
I'm far less charitable. They're prepping for any old time where they get to kill people they don't like and not get in trouble.
Yeah, the actual American frontier was mostly groups of people organizing themselves, working together, and pooling resources. Sometimes they were united by country/language of origin, or religious affiliation, but it is very much a story of cooperation (when they weren't killing Indians). The main sources of friction on the 19th century frontier (other than the Indian thing, and that Civil War business) were between smaller communities, and individuals or organizations with proto-Capitalistic interests: cattle barons, rail barons, mining interests, etc.).
It wasn't as much of a question of defending yourself against outlaws/marauders, etc., as it was people hiring private armies to get you off your land.
Pinkerton cocksuckers
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:17 PM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm far less charitable. They're prepping for any old time where they get to kill people they don't like and not get in trouble.
Yeah, the actual American frontier was mostly groups of people organizing themselves, working together, and pooling resources. Sometimes they were united by country/language of origin, or religious affiliation, but it is very much a story of cooperation (when they weren't killing Indians). The main sources of friction on the 19th century frontier (other than the Indian thing, and that Civil War business) were between smaller communities, and individuals or organizations with proto-Capitalistic interests: cattle barons, rail barons, mining interests, etc.).
It wasn't as much of a question of defending yourself against outlaws/marauders, etc., as it was people hiring private armies to get you off your land.
Pinkerton cocksuckers
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:17 PM on August 3, 2017 [6 favorites]
Also, in the Anglophone sphere, we tend to conflate the collapse of Roman Britain with the collapse of the Western Empire.
The collapse of Roman Britain was pretty catastrophic. Even before Saxons started showing up en masse, significant portions of eastern Britain were already heavily depopulated. Within a generation after 420 AD, most major towns were empty, people stopped using coins, and some regions no longer even had locally produced pottery.
On the continent, there were a few major invasions (Goths, Vandals/Alans/Suebi, Goths again, Huns), and Rome was sacked a couple of times, but this was punctuated by periods of relative stability and rebuilding. Even after Romulus Augustulus was deposed, life in the Empire was not as massively disrupted. Certainly the Empire was broken up, and there were new political divisions, but agriculture continued on relatively the same scale, towns remained, taxes continued to be paid (although to different people), people continued to read and write, and participate in politics. It took much longer for things to devolve into a less organized, more decentralized system of rival kingships, and proto-feudal organization. Even the Ostrogothic kingdom considered itself to be mostly Roman, and various successor kingdoms made different claims to being the continuation of the Empire (the Carolingians, for instance). And, of course, the Eastern Empire carried on for much longer.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:35 PM on August 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
The collapse of Roman Britain was pretty catastrophic. Even before Saxons started showing up en masse, significant portions of eastern Britain were already heavily depopulated. Within a generation after 420 AD, most major towns were empty, people stopped using coins, and some regions no longer even had locally produced pottery.
On the continent, there were a few major invasions (Goths, Vandals/Alans/Suebi, Goths again, Huns), and Rome was sacked a couple of times, but this was punctuated by periods of relative stability and rebuilding. Even after Romulus Augustulus was deposed, life in the Empire was not as massively disrupted. Certainly the Empire was broken up, and there were new political divisions, but agriculture continued on relatively the same scale, towns remained, taxes continued to be paid (although to different people), people continued to read and write, and participate in politics. It took much longer for things to devolve into a less organized, more decentralized system of rival kingships, and proto-feudal organization. Even the Ostrogothic kingdom considered itself to be mostly Roman, and various successor kingdoms made different claims to being the continuation of the Empire (the Carolingians, for instance). And, of course, the Eastern Empire carried on for much longer.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:35 PM on August 3, 2017 [5 favorites]
In the American West, at least, we rely on a fairly massive amount of ongoing governmental investment for our daily water (and by investment, I mean outright massive subsidies). Good luck with your off-the-grid bugout once your other prepper neighbors have sucked out all the groundwater.
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 2:41 PM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
posted by ivan ivanych samovar at 2:41 PM on August 3, 2017 [8 favorites]
Regarding what the western frontier was like, the Lincoln County war (Billy the Kid, et al.) was not very different from drug importer's turf wars today. Those guys were gangsters that deeply corrupted the political system.
posted by Bee'sWing at 3:04 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by Bee'sWing at 3:04 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Regarding what the western frontier was like, the Lincoln County war (Billy the Kid, et al.) was not very different from drug importer's turf wars today. Those guys were gangsters that deeply corrupted the political system.
Neither were the sheep wars. And what's funny is the USFS and BLM that these people hate so much sprung up as a result of the violence regarding public land access.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:14 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Neither were the sheep wars. And what's funny is the USFS and BLM that these people hate so much sprung up as a result of the violence regarding public land access.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:14 PM on August 3, 2017 [2 favorites]
Flagged Frowner's comment as fantastic, because it was.
I'm sure this has been said before but the prepper phenomenon seems to be one step further along the paleo diet continuum. Paleo folks, even if they don't really believe it, often glorify hunter gatherer society. Small bands of people who know each other work together.
It's as Frowner said, part of this same fantasy where you matter. Every post apocalyptic fantasy assumes that:
1. You survive. We obviously interject ourselves into these fantasies.
2. You get a fresh start. All the mistakes and lost opportunities are scrubbed clean.
3. There is a huge reboot or redistribution of resources. Banks collapse, technology stops working. We're all on an equal playing field and now live by our own wits and merits.
4. You'll have more friends, better familial relationships and possibly polygamous orgies. Severed from the impurities of modern life your relationships will improve. If you're lucky, you'll be in charge of repopulating humanity. Probably because of your wits and resource accumulation, you'll have multiple spouses.
Seriously though, how many movies or books imagine a return to the Garden of Eden? That's all people really want.
I'm reminded of the Robber's Cove experiments, or some of the ideas that Sebastian Junger's has been pushing recently. People want to be part of something where they matter. I think people fantasize about struggling through traumatic events with other people.
Someone mentioned Max Brooks' concept of LAMErs; Last Men on Earth recluses. It seems to me that a lot of prepper do think about families or communities, just smaller ones. Maybe they're naturally acting on Dunbar's number.
posted by Telf at 12:54 AM on August 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I'm sure this has been said before but the prepper phenomenon seems to be one step further along the paleo diet continuum. Paleo folks, even if they don't really believe it, often glorify hunter gatherer society. Small bands of people who know each other work together.
It's as Frowner said, part of this same fantasy where you matter. Every post apocalyptic fantasy assumes that:
1. You survive. We obviously interject ourselves into these fantasies.
2. You get a fresh start. All the mistakes and lost opportunities are scrubbed clean.
3. There is a huge reboot or redistribution of resources. Banks collapse, technology stops working. We're all on an equal playing field and now live by our own wits and merits.
4. You'll have more friends, better familial relationships and possibly polygamous orgies. Severed from the impurities of modern life your relationships will improve. If you're lucky, you'll be in charge of repopulating humanity. Probably because of your wits and resource accumulation, you'll have multiple spouses.
Seriously though, how many movies or books imagine a return to the Garden of Eden? That's all people really want.
I'm reminded of the Robber's Cove experiments, or some of the ideas that Sebastian Junger's has been pushing recently. People want to be part of something where they matter. I think people fantasize about struggling through traumatic events with other people.
Someone mentioned Max Brooks' concept of LAMErs; Last Men on Earth recluses. It seems to me that a lot of prepper do think about families or communities, just smaller ones. Maybe they're naturally acting on Dunbar's number.
posted by Telf at 12:54 AM on August 4, 2017 [6 favorites]
I live in one of the "ethnic" urban neighborhoods that preppers seem to think are going to turn into warzones the second... something something. I have a lot of thoughts on the matter, but most of them are more judgmental than I'd like, so I'll try to leave it at this: I know my neighbors well enough to trust their good will more than I trust my capacity to live on bean sprouts in the countryside for an extended period of time, and I trust their good will a damn sight more than that of middle aged suburbanites who object to paying taxes for public works but seem to think burying AR-15s and oatmeal in the middle of nowhere is a prudent use of their money.
I hear these convoluted narratives of social collapse, and all I hear is, "Hey you know Ernesto, that guy downstairs who works two jobs so his kids can have soccer gear? The second government aid runs out he's gonna turn into a Mad Max zombie cannibal." And frankly, the "fuck you" just rises up in me before they can get to their little catalog full of camouflage hats and shit.
I appreciate the author's thoughts, particularly about the virtue of Freedom being twisted into an abdication of personal and social responsibility, and violent fantasies as a desire for a kind of Old-West moral clarity that does not and never did exist.
It did take me a minute to get past the Waffle House crack, though. #teamwaffle
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:21 PM on August 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I hear these convoluted narratives of social collapse, and all I hear is, "Hey you know Ernesto, that guy downstairs who works two jobs so his kids can have soccer gear? The second government aid runs out he's gonna turn into a Mad Max zombie cannibal." And frankly, the "fuck you" just rises up in me before they can get to their little catalog full of camouflage hats and shit.
I appreciate the author's thoughts, particularly about the virtue of Freedom being twisted into an abdication of personal and social responsibility, and violent fantasies as a desire for a kind of Old-West moral clarity that does not and never did exist.
It did take me a minute to get past the Waffle House crack, though. #teamwaffle
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:21 PM on August 4, 2017 [7 favorites]
I already referenced Sebastian Junger up thread, but Phobos the Space Potato's comment reminded me of a major point he makes. (Joe Rogan podcast youtube link, in case you find that unpleasant.)
There is way more community and interaction in tightly packed, ethnically mixed communities than there are in suburban enclaves. When hurricane Sandy blew through NYC, the response seemed to be much more about working together than mass looting. I could be wrong here, I'm paraphrasing the narrative I've heard. Neighbors generally worked together, shared resources, set up community watches and helped to take care of the elderly/less able.
People are forced to interact with each other. Having a large lawn and a big house in a gated community doesn't generally promote interaction. I imagine that gated communities will have more issues if things started to decline.
Yes, food distribution would be an issue in the cities, but I suspect the suburbs would be worse. It's much more efficient to ship food to a concentrated area than it would be to sprinkle resources all over suburbia.
I don't believe anything acutely terrible is going to happen, but I'd put my money on tightly packed mixed neighborhoods over American exurbs.
posted by Telf at 8:20 PM on August 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
There is way more community and interaction in tightly packed, ethnically mixed communities than there are in suburban enclaves. When hurricane Sandy blew through NYC, the response seemed to be much more about working together than mass looting. I could be wrong here, I'm paraphrasing the narrative I've heard. Neighbors generally worked together, shared resources, set up community watches and helped to take care of the elderly/less able.
People are forced to interact with each other. Having a large lawn and a big house in a gated community doesn't generally promote interaction. I imagine that gated communities will have more issues if things started to decline.
Yes, food distribution would be an issue in the cities, but I suspect the suburbs would be worse. It's much more efficient to ship food to a concentrated area than it would be to sprinkle resources all over suburbia.
I don't believe anything acutely terrible is going to happen, but I'd put my money on tightly packed mixed neighborhoods over American exurbs.
posted by Telf at 8:20 PM on August 5, 2017 [2 favorites]
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It took a lot of energy to surmount the initial steep hill of douchery raised by this statement... it rather colored the rest of the article.
posted by aureliobuendia at 7:47 AM on August 3, 2017 [22 favorites]