Recreational Activity Vehicle 4-wheel drive
August 31, 2017 6:28 AM   Subscribe

 
Gotta admit I've wondered what "RAV4" actually meant. Not enough to even do a quick google when arriving home but remember wondering briefly.
posted by sammyo at 6:36 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Don't the Geo Tracker and Ford Bronco have a better claim to being the "first" of this kind of vehicle, or are those too "truck-like"?
posted by schmod at 6:53 AM on August 31, 2017


it didn't feel pandering or like a caricatured effort like so many "youth designed" efforts (ahem, Honda Element)

You take that back, sir! The Honda Element was a fine vehicle, and if the commercials were "pandering," they were the very height of the art.
posted by explosion at 6:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't see this one as Toyota's fault. The original RAV4 was widely criticized for being "wimpy," or looking like a "toy," basically for being insufficiently masculine, even as it sold in huge numbers. I knew a lot of women who had them, but no men. Of course Toyota made it bigger and butcher in subsequent generations; once it ditched the original styling, both men and women in my circle started owning them. The strategy seems to have worked, as the thing continues to sell like hotcakes.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [5 favorites]


The first crossover was the Subaru Outback, end of story. Now… what was the first "real" Outback?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:56 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wow, even commercials were more quirky back in the day. Commercials.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:01 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also, what is the difference between a wagon, a crossover, and a small SUV? I submit that the answer is simply "marketing". Crossovers aren't a new thing, they're just a way of mooshing together two market segments in a way that makes them seem more hip and appealing. Brilliant idea from a sales perspective, and undeniably effective.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:03 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Both the Tracker and Bronco lacks all-round independent suspension, schmod, so they don't qualify according to the article.

I thought that the Lada Niva ticked all the boxes, but apparently they too have a live rear axle. Otherwise they would have claimed the title already in 1977.
posted by Harald74 at 7:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, I thought a crossover was just the new cool name for a station wagon for people who didn't want to say they owned a station wagon? The Outback is definitely a station wagon. I sort of get how the Forester is different enough to call it a crossover but really it's just a station wagon too.
posted by Wretch729 at 7:11 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


Don't the Geo Tracker and Ford Bronco have a better claim to being the "first" of this kind of vehicle,

I suppose the Bronco is even older, but -- risking getting something thrown at me -- wouldn't the Subaru BRAT be a better candidate for a protoRAV4? I suppose the back seats not being enclosed disqualifies it moreso, but I think there were "toppers" for them?
posted by AzraelBrown at 7:11 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've had a 2005 RAV4 for almost 10 years, and I didn't know what RAV stood for.
I like the 2005 better than the new styles or the original styles. It got bigger, but not too big.
I need 4WD (and studs) just to get up my driveway in winter.
posted by MtDewd at 7:18 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Gotta admit I've wondered what "RAV4" actually meant.

Recreational Activity Vehicle with 4 wheel drive.

There's a lot of JDM Toyota vehicles that we used to get imported into Australia that were pretty amazing. The Toyota Caldina Surf which had a 3S-GTE and a 4WD system off a GT-Four Celica. Also the Altezza, the only RWD variant of the IS200. So many great cars.

The United States has missed out on some incredible cars over the years. I still get a bit sad when there's no left hand drive version of the GC8 WRX STi. I would have loved to buy an old one for a runaround in winter where the FR-S isn't all that hot to drive, even with snow tires.
posted by Talez at 7:20 AM on August 31, 2017


what is the difference between a wagon, a crossover, and a small SUV?

An SUV is a truck being used as a car.

A CROSSOVER is a station wagon wrapped in plastic panels sitting up comically high on its wheels.

A STATION WAGON is a better-designed sedan. An endangered species in America, because it turns out that evolution is NOT about progress.
 
posted by Herodios at 7:20 AM on August 31, 2017 [37 favorites]


Oh and no GT-Rs prior to the V35. No Skylines on the road at all over here.

An endangered species in America, because it turns out that evolution is NOT about progress.

The light truck loophole in the CAFE standards did the station wagon in. You can still get some awesome wagons. BMW make the 3 series in a wagon, VW make the Golf in a wagon with a slightly more modest engine (and price tag) while Volvo have some good wagons as well.
posted by Talez at 7:26 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


The Bronco, both the original Jeepy version and the later OJ version, was a truck-style body on frame design, not a uni-body, crossover type vehicle.
posted by peeedro at 7:30 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Outback is definitely a station wagon. I sort of get how the Forester is different enough to call it a crossover but really it's just a station wagon too.

I haven't checked in several years, but the last time I did:
Despite having apparent dimensional differences visually, the OutbackLegacy and Forrester wagons had nearly identical vital stats: power, fuel economy, cargo capacity, passenger space, et probably cetera.
 
posted by Herodios at 7:30 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I love this 90s resurgence of the original RAV4. There are loads of people on YouTube building rock crawlers out of the short 2-door original models.
posted by mathowie at 7:33 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


Wow, even commercials were more quirky back in the day. Commercials.

There were giants in those days. (Dig it, there's even a sequel.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:35 AM on August 31, 2017


Yeah, I thought a crossover was just the new cool name for a station wagon for people who didn't want to say they owned a station wagon? The Outback is definitely a station wagon. I sort of get how the Forester is different enough to call it a crossover but really it's just a station wagon too

The Outback might be a station wagony, but it's designed to handle some fairly tricky off-road situations. They're popular with hikers because they can access some pretty remote trailheads. My Outback was easily the most versatile vehicle I've ever owned (and good lord are they amazing in the snow.) The crossover label is justified for them.
posted by azpenguin at 7:42 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


An endangered species in America, because it turns out that evolution is NOT about progress.
You can still get some awesome wagons. BMW make the 3 series in a wagon

. . . but discontined the 5 series wagon.

VW make the Golf in a wagon

. . . but discontinued the Passat wagon when they started building it as a Volksbuick in Georgia.

Volvo have some good wagons as well.

Yes. Tho' if they really want to make a friend, they'll bring back the P1800ES.

The Ford Taurus wagon was discontinued. The Honda Accord wagon was discontinued. Und so weider.

The Dodge Magnum wagon is possibly the only US make SW currently available, tho' the styling evokes nothing so much as a hearse. Think I'll dodge that bullet.

I'm saving up for a M-B E63 wagon, myself. Sleeper wagons are something of a tradition in my family. My mother used to enjoy smoking young Camaro jockeys at red lights with a series of towing-package-equipped station wagons and superior driving skills.
 
posted by Herodios at 7:47 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


My first and second cars were RAV4s and I love and miss them both.
posted by sibboleth at 7:48 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Oh geez, that word "quirky". Because that's the word that was always associated with Saab. I loved my old Saab, but my totally "commodity car" RAV4 I eventually traded the Saab in for is awesome in its complete lack of the quirky. You can even shift it manually if you really want to.
posted by lagomorphius at 7:55 AM on August 31, 2017


My first 4WD vehicle was an 84 Tercel wagon. It was light enough to get unstuck with a come along and a shovel, and small enough to go anywhere. It was horrifically underpowered, but that's got benefits in that I never had to replace a halfshaft on a trail.

I had a 4WD 96 Rav4 and loved it for the same reasons. We traded it in for a Protoge5 which got better MPGs and was more fun to drive in the twisty turnies.

I have a Tacoma now, and my wife has 4Runner. We live in the CO mountains, and need the 4wd and low range gearbox. I have several friends who have VehiCrosses if you want to talk about quirky little 4WD fun buggies.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:01 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


"Crossover" is the convergence of all car styles. My husband and I sat at a sidewalk cafe, commenting on this, just last weekend. You never see a newish small sedan or hatchback or wagon or small SUV or minivan anymore. Instead, every vehicle is all of these things at once. And there are a vast number of them, crawling down the main drag of our tiny midwestern town, and nothing distinctive about any of them. You can hardly tell them apart.

Don't get me wrong, we own one ourselves. When we bought it, I would have preferred to stay more on the wagon side of the spectrum, if there still were such things. But all the wagons have been merged into this undifferentiated crossover soup, and the RAV4 became just one more part of the mix.
posted by elizilla at 8:01 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Outback is definitely a station wagon

I have a 2007 Outback and a 2017 Outback. The latter is significantly larger than the former -- almost enough to justify calling it an SUV. I'm actually quite sad about that; I love wagons and prefer the smaller form factor. But Americans just don't buy wagons, and so there aren't very many on the market here.
posted by Slothrup at 8:04 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Just a thought. They might be a guest writer, but that doesn't mean they are exempt from editing.
posted by Samizdata at 8:05 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have a 2007 Outback and a 2017 Outback. The latter is significantly larger than the former -- almost enough to justify calling it an SUV. I'm actually quite sad about that; I love wagons and prefer the smaller form factor. But Americans just don't buy wagons, and so there aren't very many on the market here.

I don't have the former but I have the latter and I want to second everything you said. The 17 is nice though, I just wish it wasn't as large...
posted by RolandOfEld at 8:06 AM on August 31, 2017


My first and second cars were RAV4s and I love and miss them both.
posted by sibboleth


god dammit it's RAVs4
posted by the phlegmatic king at 8:12 AM on August 31, 2017 [8 favorites]


Every Sunday I have this same conversation with my mom:

"That neighbor kid has a real sharp car. It's a Subaru, but it's like a little pickup truck."

"That's called a Baja, Mom. They don't make them anymore."

"It's a real nice little car!"
posted by lagomorphius at 8:15 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


My partner and I went used-car shopping recently when it turned out her 2009 Nissan Versa couldn't be retrofitted with an air conditioner. The car we landed on was a 2001 RAV4. The engines on the originals apparently had some problems, but the previous owner was a professional mechanic who replaced it himself with a 2004 engine (which, as a bonus, is also noticeably more powerful).

It's an incredible car. Actually shorter by about ten inches than the Versa we got rid of, but with massively more cargo space inside. And the gas mileage is nearly as good!
posted by tobascodagama at 8:19 AM on August 31, 2017


I will see your RAV4 and raise you a Pontiac Aztek with the tent attachment and air mattress.
posted by srboisvert at 8:39 AM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Given that the CUV/small SUV form will be with us for a while, The RAV4 hybrid is really remarkable, and you should be aware of it.
posted by lalochezia at 8:40 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm saving up for a M-B E63 wagon, myself. Sleeper wagons are something of a tradition in my family. My mother used to enjoy smoking young Camaro jockeys at red lights with a series of towing-package-equipped station wagons and superior driving skills.

Undoubtedly in a stick. With a diesel. In brown.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:50 AM on August 31, 2017


Undoubtedly in a stick. With a diesel. In brown.

Not sure about the brown or the diesel. But a manual wagon in rear-wheel-drive or AWD would be my vehicular preference. Unfortunately, I can't convince my wife to move to Europe.
posted by Slothrup at 8:54 AM on August 31, 2017


Yeah, I'd totes get a manual wagon for my next car, too. I learned on a Wrangler with a stick, and I miss them. Stop & go traffic sucks with a clutch, though.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:56 AM on August 31, 2017


Last week I replaced the ETS on my '99 manual Volvo V70 for something like half the value of the car. I thought hard about selling it to the mechanic, but I love the thing, pretty underpowered but otherwise it's in fantastic shape.

If I commuted by car I don't think I'd want a stick though.
posted by Kwine at 9:04 AM on August 31, 2017


I will raise the spectre of the AMC Eagle as candidate for first crossover.
posted by namewithoutwords at 9:05 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


The Baja was just an Outback but with less rear legroom and your shit gets stolen and/or rained on if you leave it the back. Also, WAY too much blobby pladtic everywhere.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 9:07 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Lots of memories and connections here. I have liked the RAV4s, people find them very reliable, and it is still on my short list of choices for next vehicle.

I like the concept of a small but versatile vehicle, and because we tow our sailboat around a few times a year, i want the ability to tow at least 2000 lb and to be competent on any launch ramp.

I had a LADA Niva for a few years (83-85)! Yes it was a live rear axle but a sophisticated front suspension. It was full-time 4WD, with a lockable differential/transfer case between the front and rear. It was a very cool vehicle - great concept, nimble - but suffered in execution: the camshaft rotted out after 30000km, the transfer case leaked, body leaks and rust. Also it was pretty light, so it bogged down in deeper snow.

I also had a Jeep Wrangler for a long time- fun, especially with the top down, but ultimately impractical and inefficient. Currently I have an elderly but great-running 2000 Nissan Xterra that is 10x the vehicle the Jeep was, in terms of reliability, interior, cargo space, ride. Great for pulling the boat.

If money was no object, I'd have a Land Rover Defender 110... which have just gone out of production. For no good reason, other than I'm infatuated with them.

(Yes these are inefficient and ecologically wasteful vehicles for most people. All I can say in my defense is that my truck isn't a daily driver, it's my weekend workhorse and boat tower. I only clock about 3000 to 4000 miles a year on it. My wife has a Civic, and that is the main vehicle for most trips. )

So, the RAV is a contender for my next vehicle. As well as the Subaru's which many people are loyal to. I'm also looking at Kia and Hyundai. I wish we got more of the small 4x4s that you can find outside of North America.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:37 AM on August 31, 2017 [4 favorites]


You all are claiming antecedents and it's as if you never heard of the International Harvester Scout.
posted by ardgedee at 9:38 AM on August 31, 2017 [7 favorites]


Goddamn I remember the Scout! At one company, we had a Scout for getting access to some remote facilities. It was a freakin tractor.
posted by Artful Codger at 9:40 AM on August 31, 2017


So I think the definition of a crossover is an SUV body on a car chassis (instead of a truck chassis). Hence the SUV form factor crossing over to the car base.

My wife rocked a black Toyota Matrix (I was furious that she would not get the license plate "3NITY") that was one of the first really prominent crossovers. We used to get asked questions about it all the time when it was new
posted by Rock Steady at 9:47 AM on August 31, 2017


I will raise the spectre of the AMC Eagle as candidate for first crossover.

It was raised comically high over its wheels and it did have (woodgrain) plastic cladding. So there you go. As I recall, Alex Bevan used to have one of these for touring in the 1980s. Never heard of anyone else owning one.

You all are claiming antecedents and it's as if you never heard of the International Harvester Scout.

Come now, sir. If we're going that route, what about the Land Rover Land Rover (1948), the Willys Jeep (1946), the Chevy Suburban (1935).
 
posted by Herodios at 9:55 AM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


We had an IH Scout when I was a kid and it went up the sides of mountains. The doors and (hard) roof came off, too. It was awesome.

These days, while whinging about the general state of the auto industry, I long for a Ford Ranger like my existing Ford Ranger (2000 4wd manual, XLT, extended cab) only I want one where the doors close easily, it's not rusting to death, and the motor doesn't have 300K on it. I see that they are bringing the Ranger back. but the "new" Ford Rangers are tricked out pieces of ick and not the fairly basic little pickup that I have. *sigh*
posted by which_chick at 10:16 AM on August 31, 2017


The original RAV4 was widely criticized for being "wimpy," or looking like a "toy," basically for being insufficiently masculine, even as it sold in huge numbers. I knew a lot of women who had them, but no men.

"If this vehicular masquerade represents the high life to which men are called we should trade our trousers for skirts right now."
posted by peeedro at 10:50 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'll concede that the AMC Eagle does appear to be a 1970s vehicle that meets the 2010's criteria for a crossover. 4WD, wagonesque body, extra ground clearance. I actually really want one now.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:10 AM on August 31, 2017


Oh, yeah. I've totally been shopping for an AMC Eagle. I'd really like to swap in the 4.0 HO engine from a Cherokee too.
posted by wotsac at 11:15 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Slothrup: "I have a 2007 Outback and a 2017 Outback. The latter is significantly larger than the former "

I used to have a 1999 Audi A4, which was a decent-sized car when it was new. In those days, it shared a platform with the VW Passat.

Every subsequent iteration of that car was a tiny bit bigger than the earlier one. By the 2010s, it was absolutely dwarfed by the now-current iteration of the A4. Eventually, in response to market pressures, Audi introduced a "smaller" A3 that was still bigger than my '99 A4.

These days, I drive a Volvo hatchback, because nothing else quite captures the small/practical/not-shitty trifecta. I'd gladly trade it for a "small wagon," although those don't appear to actually exist.
posted by schmod at 11:17 AM on August 31, 2017


In high school, I had an AMC Spirit, the much-less-rad little sibling of the Eagle. A friend of mine back then promised me that if he ever won the lottery, he'd buy me an Eagle, paint it gold, and hire someone to put the most insanely overpowered engine possible into it.

I'm kind of glad he never won the lottery.
posted by the phlegmatic king at 11:18 AM on August 31, 2017


Twenty years ago, there was an ad in the paper for an AMC Eagle, only 2000 miles on it, in excellent shape -- literally a "little old lady owned it and only drove to church and the store" car. I needed a car, but needed to borrow money from my dad to afford it. My dad talked me out of buying it. :(

However, when I saw the IH Scout post, I concede, yes, that's probably the earliest precedent for this type of vehicle.
posted by AzraelBrown at 11:19 AM on August 31, 2017


Volvo have some good wagons as well.

My 2013 XC70 will positively eat cargo and ask for more. Most of the time it's way easier to pack stuff across the long cargo area of a wagon vs. stacking it higher in a taller SUV like the XC90. Plus it lives to play in the deepest snow of the northeast winters. I'm sad it's been discontinued in favor of the V90 Cross Country, which might be as capable but is more focused on competing in the luxury space (and starts at $55K).
posted by bassomatic at 11:53 AM on August 31, 2017


I think all the station wagons are here in Norway, guys. For example the Passats I see are only about 10% sedan.
posted by Harald74 at 11:54 AM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


We had a sedan and found it to be slightly too small and limiting (moving boxes and smallish pieces of furniture, hauling kids). I would have bought a station wagon if there had been much to choose from, rather than nearly nothing. I would have bought a minivan if they weren't so much more expensive. So we bought a crossover, which car people love to hate on, which they are welcome to do, but also, bite me.
posted by skewed at 12:08 PM on August 31, 2017


So I think the definition of a crossover is an SUV body on a car chassis (instead of a truck chassis). Hence the SUV form factor crossing over to the car base.

Yes. A SUV is Body on Frame (BOF) similar to a truck. The advantage is greater load carrying, more resilience, and ease of modification and repair, though BOF is heavier, which hurts MPGs.

A CUV* is Unibody, and they are lighter, and more rigid. This means better MPGs and handling at speed, but they are fragile and difficult to repair.

If you want to tow, haul, or offroad/badroad you should look for a BOF model. If you want fuel economy and some bad weather capability, a CUV will likely do well for you. Those aren't hard and fast rules, though and exceptions exist.


*CUV means either Compact or Crossover depending on context. In all cases, they are unibody though
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:24 PM on August 31, 2017


I've put over 130,000 miles on my 2008 RAV4, and it's still going strong. It was a replacement for my Dodge Dakota pickup, because I needed a more sensible commuter vehicle, but I still have to be able to haul shit. Turns out I can cram almost everything I need to in this little beasty, except for maybe a full sheet of plywood (which I could still probably strap to the rack if I was so inclined). Runs great in the snow, even on the PNW hills. I got the 6 cylinder, and it has plenty of pep. It absolutely turns on a dime, too. Nice car. Not looking forward to having to replace it.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:25 PM on August 31, 2017


Macho posturing has done a lot to make car design worse. From 1997 to 2008, the Ford F-150 had this nice sloped hood that was good for visibility. But they had to put a huge grill out front to compensate for their insecurity about their manhood, and now you almost need a *front* camera to avoid hitting stuff. The same thing happened to the Toyota Tundra.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 2:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [10 favorites]


From 1997 to 2008, the Ford F-150 had this nice sloped hood that was good for visibility. But they had to put a huge grill out front

Part of that is driven by safety regulations. I had read a really good article on it a few months ago, but I'm failing to google it up now.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 3:12 PM on August 31, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think all the station wagons are here in Norway, guys. For example the Passats I see are only about 10% sedan.

Well, yeah! Why on earth would you get a sedan instead of a wagon? You get way less cargo room in exchange for… what, exactly?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:18 PM on August 31, 2017 [3 favorites]


Pogo, the Ford Explorer is unibody, as is the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Are they crossovers now?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:28 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


Pogo, the Ford Explorer is unibody, as is the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Are they crossovers now?


Yes.
posted by sideshow at 3:37 PM on August 31, 2017


What about the Honda CRV? It's the same idea at the same time, direct competitors. (the CRV is a bigger, taller Civic with 4wd, while the RAV4 is a bigger, taller Corolla with 4wd).

Also Japan, Australia, etc. have had a wider selection of affordable, practical, compact 4WD car-like jeeps for a really long time, no? (Wider selection than the US where the pickup truck reigns.) We had the Suzuki in the US but still a bit rare perhaps.

So a pretty US-centric article.
posted by thefool at 5:15 PM on August 31, 2017


Cars have had their hoods raised to leave space between the sheet metal (that will give if hit by a pedestrian) and the engine (which won't give). Even with a low hood a pedestrian will only ever hit the front of a pickup truck, and there was already plenty of clearance between the engine and the hood with the lower hoods of the F-150 and Tundra anyway.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 6:12 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I will raise the spectre of the AMC Eagle as candidate for first crossover.

A friend in high school had one of those, and I can remember us driving at close to 100 mph on gravel roads, with the poor car making noises that no car should be made to make.

I have never owned a RAV4, but I remember riding in the first generation ones and how anemic they were on hills.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:11 PM on August 31, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm a man, and I had pretty much the exact RAV4 this writer did -- 1996 4-door, Sequoia Green, but the automatic, not stick. I fucking loved that machine, more than any other car I've owned. Not a powerhouse by any means, but just fun to drive. And the author is totally right about the insane amount of stuff and/or living creatures that could fit in there -- it's like they had a proto-type of TARDIS "bigger on the inside" technology.

Mine also suffered a premature death: a car rammed into the passenger side while I was going through an intersection, and RAVI -- that was his name -- ran straight into a very tall sign post for church, which ripped straight through the middle of the front end, almost up to the windshield. I would have kept that guy forever if I could have.

Sorry, I need to be alone right now. *sniff*
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:54 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Why on earth would you get a sedan instead of a wagon? You get way less cargo room in exchange for… what, exactly?

I knew one person who preferred sedans due to perceived higher rollover security. That person had also gotten injuried when rolling a station wagon years ago. I didn't really begrudge them their sedan, to be honest.

My estimate that only 10% of Passats here are sedans seems to have been right on the nose. Checking the classifieds 11% of Passats for sale now are sedans!
posted by Harald74 at 6:53 AM on September 1, 2017


Sometimes I miss the colossal amount of cargo room I had in my 2004 Element. The seats folded up and to the sides, at the expense of having a center rear seat, but the floor was completely flat all the way up to the front seats. The rear seats were also removable. You could fit more cargo in the Element than you could most larger SUVs, aside from some of the full sizers.

It's a myth that it could be hosed out, but it was very easy to clean, which was wonderful when we had two big dogs.

I don't miss the anemic engine or crappy handling, though. And having no carpet inside made for a noisy ride.
posted by Fleebnork at 6:57 AM on September 1, 2017 [2 favorites]


O-o-oh, first compact sport futulity vehicle.

If not the original Willys Jeep from the 1940s, that might be the Suzuki LJ10 aka "Jimny". I saw a few of these buzzin' around in the early 1970s. Articles says the were made from 1970.

Bonus: They were equipped with two-cylinder two-stroke engines.

Double-bonus: The placement of the spare tire made it a three-seater. Brilliant. Almost as brilliant as attaching the front shoulder belts to the rear doors. . . .

Sometimes I miss the colossal amount of cargo room I had in my 2004 Element. The seats folded up and to the sides, at the expense of having a center rear seat, but the floor was completely flat all the way up to the front seats.

So a lot like a 1963 VW Bus, then.

I don't miss the anemic engine or crappy handling, though.

I rest my case.
 
posted by Herodios at 8:06 AM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


Mmmmmmmmmm. My girlfriend in high school had a Brat. And the hijinks we got into in that tiny interior compartment.... Well, yoga wasn't big then, but, I suppose we would have prequalified for advanced classes...

It was never much used for actual four wheeling (not counting snowy season), but it was an amazingly durable and reliable little beast, as well as being eponymous for it's owner...
posted by Samizdata at 10:21 PM on September 1, 2017 [1 favorite]


The 2000s RAV4s lost a bit when they grew larger, but they also gained quite a bit in exchange, especially in terms of cargo capacity. I'm not sure it made a whole lot of sense in terms of Toyota's overall lineup, though. By 2006 they were nearly as large as the Highlander.

These days I think I'd be happier with a Bolt.
posted by wierdo at 6:56 AM on September 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


I miss the time where you could put stuff into a pickup truck bed without a stepstool.

I have a recent model Outback, and it's easily as big as an '00s Jeep Grand Wagoneer when parked side by side, but, it gets 30mph on the highway. Handling is kinda iffy, but acceleration is what I need it to be. Comfy as all heck for long rides, swallows all the things and has a fantastic folding roof-rack.

I came from the weird moon-buggy looking '08 Kia Sportage that had some transmission issues (under warranty, but still, twice is too much) but was otherwise a solid little beastie. It had a ton of room for people and things, and a little 6-banger that was thriftier than advertised and could haul a decent sized utility trailer. I was T-Boned at highway speed, and walked away without a bruise, even though it was totaled. Really impressed with modern safety engineering.

Little crossover SUV's and AWD wagons make great family cars - practical, efficient, comfortable, safe.
posted by Slap*Happy at 12:12 PM on September 7, 2017


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