Never mind the bollocks
September 21, 2017 8:33 AM   Subscribe

I wake up in the morning and I just realise that I am chaos.’ Marilyn Manson interviewed by the Guardian.
posted by fearfulsymmetry (50 comments total) 8 users marked this as a favorite
 
I wanted to put a fucking dent in the world, like my hero[...] Jim Morrison

Oh.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:50 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jim Morrison

The killer arose before dawn....he put his eyeliner on.....
posted by thelonius at 8:52 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


I wanted to put a fucking dent in the world,

...but instead he opted to poke the interviewer in the 'nads.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:58 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


In my mind, there's a Weimar-era cabaret where all of the last generation of superstars (that is, those of the 90's and early 200's, before everything became computer-screen small) gather and drink and reminisce. To perfect this fantasy, Mariyln Manson at the keyboard, and Ann Coulter sitting on top of the piano belt out a moving rendition of "Those Were the Days." Those good old days, when the public could really be angered and moved by fantasy, before reality took over and took all the fun out of it.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 9:08 AM on September 21, 2017 [14 favorites]


Go away, Marilyn Manson
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:25 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]




Trigger warning: testicle flicking
posted by terrapin at 9:30 AM on September 21, 2017


"Columbine destroyed my entire career..."

Yup, that would be first on my list of things Columbine destroyed.
posted by Dean358 at 9:30 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


For a second there, I thought it was about Shirley Manson, and I had to go check that she was doing OK. And she is! Here she is at a panel about improving representation of women in the music industry.
posted by Cash4Lead at 9:40 AM on September 21, 2017 [18 favorites]


Manson is a tragic figure, to me...he missed his shot at becoming a R&R legend, by not dying when he was 27...
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 9:42 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Columbine destroyed my entire career..."

I mean, it is an important comment though. People want to "shock" the world, but they don't think about the repercussions of what they are putting into the world. They don't think about the fact that they are adults, who have more matured coping systems, but that children are watching and paying attention to these things too, except without context or similar coping mechanisms.
posted by vignettist at 9:45 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


I always enjoy reading interviews with MM; he usually comes across as an interesting mix of high intelligence, insufferable pomposity, amusing self-awareness and undeniable charisma.

But after reading this and other interviews I am left with two contradictory thoughts:

1) Good for this guy for Doing His Thing even though the scene he once dominated (and American pop culture in general) has moved on. Do what you love, MM--online snark be damned!

2) It's too bad somebody with his level of charisma and showmanship chooses (?) to endlessly rehash suicide-rock albums and a 20-year-old, no-longer-provocative persona, instead of putting his talents and energy into something... well, new and interesting. Many of MM's peers and idols (Bowie, Reznor) evolved through their careers and remained relevant in a way that MM has not.

Please note I'm not meaning to bash MM or suggest that his art doesn't speak to people. I just wish he'd do something new with all that charisma.
posted by Byzantine at 9:48 AM on September 21, 2017 [13 favorites]


"Columbine destroyed my entire career..."

That's not what he says. He says, "the Columbine era destroyed my entire career at the time," meaning that the fallout of Columbine, the firestorm of political posturing and conservative witch hunts that tried to place the blame everywhere except the system that really failed the shooters and their victims, destroyed his career. Not that the tragedy itself destroyed his career.
posted by Cpt. The Mango at 9:54 AM on September 21, 2017 [19 favorites]


People want to "shock" the world, but they don't think about the repercussions of what they are putting into the world.

For fucks sake, he was not responsible for Columbine. That's some moral panic bullshit.
posted by adept256 at 9:55 AM on September 21, 2017 [34 favorites]


I think the only way to enjoy Manson is, to some extent, to forget he exists. He's a musical version of a clothes-horse, only as good as the collaborators he surrounds himself with. While I'd argue that Holy Wood represented a creative standstill for the band, if you have to stand still, it wasn't a bad place to be. But Golden Age of the Grotesque showed that, left to his own devices, he really couldn't produce anything interesting. You can't make an album out of nothing but ego and sneering. It wasn't until Twiggy showed back up for High End of Low that the songs got viscerally enjoyable again, and even then, the shock songs were the most forgettable.

I don't know, I've always considered myself a fan, and there are songs of theirs I go back to again and again, but we're all old now, and when you're old, the music needs something other than shock to keep it viable. It needs to reach deeper, and deeper has always been a concept Manson has had a problem with.
posted by mittens at 9:57 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


I mean, it is an important comment though. People want to "shock" the world, but they don't think about the repercussions of what they are putting into the world. They don't think about the fact that they are adults, who have more matured coping systems, but that children are watching and paying attention to these things too, except without context or similar coping mechanisms.

Yes. This exactly. This is exactly the kind of bullshit argument he's talking about. Bravo.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:04 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


Shit, Marilyn Manson was coping mechanisms for a lot of kids. Sometimes you need someone to tell you that no, not everybody is like the people in your small town and yes, shit really is pretty fucked up out there. Being a weird kid in the 90s was a lot more isolating than it is today.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:08 AM on September 21, 2017 [22 favorites]


I used to work with Evan Rachel Wood's godmother. She had Thanksgiving dinner with Marilyn Manson one time while they were dating. He wore a t-shirt and was "polite and quiet, like an IT guy." Hard to take seriously the Lord of Chaos thing with that image in your head.
posted by something something at 10:14 AM on September 21, 2017 [12 favorites]


For the record, the Columbine killers hated Marilyn Manson.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:19 AM on September 21, 2017 [8 favorites]


I am deeply resentful of the fact that he and I share a birthday.
posted by Hermione Granger at 10:30 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


OMG Hermione! Just day and month or also year? Because I share all three with him... .
posted by Slothrup at 10:33 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


TBH, the best thing that Marilyn Manson ever did was license his song "Killing Strangers" to the makers of John Wick, because that scene led me to think while I was watching it that maybe, just maybe, after all of these years, Marilyn Manson might be kind of cool when his talents are properly applied. Too bad he still gives interviews that make him sound like he just finished reading Nietzsche for Dummies for the first time.
posted by Strange Interlude at 10:41 AM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


Even though I've never been into his music, I've always had a sneaking regard for him because he has always seemed like an alienated twelve-year-old's idea of outrageous. Now, or at least as on display in this interview, it seems tiresome and obnoxious.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:49 AM on September 21, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is there a point where the interviewer stops talking about himself and asks a question?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:52 AM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


MM's music basically was for alienated 12-year-olds. He was the most shocking act that was able to get through the gatekeepers of record labels and cable TV at the time. Complaining that he's shallow or that he lacks appeal for jaded, worldly 30-and-40-somethings is kinda beside the point. He's not very relevant now, but how many superstars are relevant for multiple decades? Some, granted, but not most.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:53 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't think it's fair to judge him using this interview, his dad died on this tour and that's the psychological context whether he admits it or not. That's got to affect how you as any sort of artist at any level or depth processes these public situations and interactions. There's more stuff than "he would have wanted you to do march on" or whatever was articulated in the interview, and I wouldn't judge someone based on a superficial interpretation of such limited statements at the time.
posted by polymodus at 10:56 AM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Too bad he still gives interviews that make him sound like he just finished reading Nietzsche for Dummies for the first time.

"Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it!"

It's been a long time since I wasn't too jaded for Marilyn Manson, but I've always chuckled and/or rolled my eyes at his antics. Pretty sure Byzantine gets it right: otoh, he's obviously not without some degree of talent and drive just to have gotten as far as he has; otoh, he's spent a lot of years mining a very thin vein; on the third, grisly, severed hand, maybe he's just a dude who likes to dress up and flick people in the nads. Lord knows there are worse ways to earn a living.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:14 AM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


I mean, it is an important comment though. People want to "shock" the world, but they don't think about the repercussions of what they are putting into the world. They don't think about the fact that they are adults, who have more matured coping systems, but that children are watching and paying attention to these things too, except without context or similar coping mechanisms.

This comment. Jesus Fucking Christ. I thought we were past this shit.
posted by pickinganameismuchharderthanihadanticipated at 11:42 AM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


Reading this makes me wonder whether he sustained some sort of brain damage, perhaps from substance abuse or neurosyphilis or something.

There are good Satanists (the Temple of Satan, who make a career of championing the underdog and sticking a finger in the eye of bullies) and bad Satanists (other than the odd serial killer, the sociopathic Randroids of LaVey's Church), but Manson isn't either. He's a televangelist's caricature of Satanism animated by an undertrained neural network.
posted by acb at 12:35 PM on September 21, 2017


I dunno, from that video for his new song "We Know Where You Fucking Live", with its leather-clad dominatrix nuns firing machine guns, it looks like he's embraced a more thoughtful, subtle approach to his music.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 12:44 PM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


I remember seeing Marilyn Manson back when he opened for NIN on their Self-Destruct tour. I remember it seemed like he was working extra super hard to be shocking and transgressive but I couldn't comprehend why and I didn't feel like he knew what he was getting at, either.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Glad to see some things never change.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 12:56 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


For me, he seems to be reasonably intelligent but always trying a bit too hard.

Significant that my fave MM songs are all covers of other people's
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:07 PM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


MM's music basically was for alienated 12-year-olds. He was the most shocking act that was able to get through the gatekeepers of record labels and cable TV at the time.

Yeah. It seems the entire purpose of his existence was, much like KISS before him, to blow the tiny minds of little kids, while prompting their older siblings or cooler friends to scoff derisively and introduce them to the real shit.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:27 PM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


Look, I never said the guy was solely responsible for Columbine. But I spent a good part of my youth listening to some depressing fucking shit, and while I'm not blaming the artists for anything I may or may not have done, it still fucking sucks to push that shit on kids on a 24/7 rotation, , give them the idea that that's what adulthood is, and then pretend that you don't understand what's happening when they reflect their interpretation of your material in an unhealthy way and fucking whine about how misunderstood you are as an artist. MM was never the whole machine, but he was a cog. He can't stand up now and pretend he wasn't. I will concede the idea that he never wanted anyone to go kill anyone else, or kill themselves,, but let's not revise history and pretend that he was producing happy-fun material either. He was deliberately stirring the pot.
posted by vignettist at 3:40 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


I had terrible depression and was full of nihilistic feels as a teenager, when MM was very popular, but I wasn't a fan of his, so... whose art can I blame my mental state on? Mazzy Star?
posted by palomar at 4:22 PM on September 21, 2017 [6 favorites]


well if it's not mental health and if it's not the guns it must be the music and the video games, case solved.
posted by SageLeVoid at 4:32 PM on September 21, 2017 [4 favorites]


whose art can I blame my mental state on?

There's always the Mozzer.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:06 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


give them the idea that that's what adulthood is

Do you have the slightest idea what you're even talking about? No one was taking cues on adulthood from Marilyn freaking Manson, least of all the Columbine shooters, who didn't even listen to his music. What utter inanity. Do you see a generation without eyebrows riding around on the backs of pigs? Climb out of whatever well you've fallen into and make friends with reality.

He was deliberately stirring the pot.

And thank God for that. The pot was playing "Mmmbop" on a loop.
posted by Sys Rq at 5:19 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's a real shame that Manson never covered "Mmmmbop." Also odd that he never (AFAIK) covered the Charlie Manson record. Manson Does Manson seems like a dead cert.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:55 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


It is vitally important to the health of society that somebody be stirring the pot at all times. I am not even kidding.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:59 PM on September 21, 2017 [3 favorites]


But I spent a good part of my youth listening to some depressing fucking shit,

if you didn't listen to some depressing fucking shit as a teen, you were either an unbelievably Normal Person, or you skipped ages 13-20 altogether.

Depressing Fucking Shit is a rite of passage of teen moodiness and melodrama at the least and genuine alienation and pain at the most.
posted by GospelofWesleyWillis at 9:03 PM on September 21, 2017 [1 favorite]


I never understood how Manson could invoke moral panic when he was so obviously clownishly provoking it. Dude's brand was labored like a haunted house and built for Hot Topic: The people taken in by it seemed like they could be taken in by anything or else had to be outrage hucksters themselves.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 10:14 PM on September 21, 2017 [5 favorites]


They don't think about the fact that they are adults

he's an adult? - he's 48 years old and still acting like he's king of the goth teenage rebels

grow up marilyn - it was one thing to act like this 20 years ago but now it's just silly
posted by pyramid termite at 2:20 AM on September 22, 2017


Oddly enough, 48 is also the median age of goths these days.
posted by acb at 2:39 AM on September 22, 2017 [3 favorites]


I never understood how Manson could invoke moral panic when he was so obviously clownishly provoking it.

He was like the Murphy Brown of shock rock.
posted by thelonius at 2:45 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's a weird quandary to be in. I feel like, if you watch something like the "Tainted Love" video, the guy clearly does not take his own routine that seriously. But at the same time, if he doesn't take it seriously at all, he becomes just a theater performer. Like, Alice Cooper doesn't try to convince anyone he's Alice all the time, but once he got sober and started playing golf...you know, you run the risk of becoming a lounge act. So what do you do? What can you do?

Bowie probably had a more psychologically healthy handle on all this, but he arrived at it at a pretty steep cost.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:34 AM on September 22, 2017


Dude was an absolute shitheel to Dita Von Teese - *that's* evil.
posted by ersatzkat at 5:31 AM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oddly enough, 48 is also the median age of goths these days.

That's why they're all driving Subaru Foresters.
posted by octobersurprise at 6:37 AM on September 22, 2017 [2 favorites]


I love Marilyn Manson so much, and this interview. It's great! But I don't take him that seriously— I think he and his persona are deeply playful. Then again, my favourite comedy show of all time is Six Feet Under. I don't know what these things say about me, but I find it all delightful.
posted by iamkimiam at 9:40 AM on September 22, 2017 [1 favorite]




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