there once was a man from New York
September 25, 2017 9:36 AM   Subscribe

Bill Cassidy still is a liar / Tom Price is a luxury flier / And Kim Jong-un’s aim / He says, is to tame / The POTUS, a dotard, with fire.
“My earlier invite’s withdrawn!” / Insisted the president, Don. / “Steph wouldn’t have come; / He told you, u bum,” / Observed a 3rd-party, LeBron posted by lalex (2402 comments total) 131 users marked this as a favorite
 
Thank you, now and forever!!
posted by greermahoney at 9:37 AM on September 25 [3 favorites]


Meanwhile, back at the dumpster fire:

North Korean Foreign Minister Says Trump Has ‘Declared War’
posted by chavenet at 9:39 AM on September 25


Heya, can we not sensationalize more than we have to? There's a bit more nuance to the NK situation than OMG WE ARE AT WAR NOW. Like I just posted.
posted by witchen at 9:41 AM on September 25 [6 favorites]


A-and man, is the shade heavy in that linked NYP article:

A CIA psychological profile of Kim comes to the conclusion that the young leader has a massive ego and reacts harshly and sometimes lethally to insults and perceived slights, the LA Times noted.
posted by chavenet at 9:41 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


You forgot Venezuela.
posted by petebest at 9:42 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]


oops, my bad!
posted by lalex at 9:43 AM on September 25


Damn, I would love to see "athletes with conscience" become a new pole to exert a counterforce against "anti-tax zealots" and "pro-lifers" and the other Big Issues that we keep hearing about ad nauseum on BOTH sides.

I mean, not all athletes are smart or principled (or good with money or...) -- but it sure would be interesting.

(And no, I am not saying that we should stop talking about wealth inequality or climate change or pro-life or small government -- just that a new, major voice would sure shake things up, as this weekend has shown: people on both sides are really energized about this.)
posted by wenestvedt at 9:44 AM on September 25 [4 favorites]


The Venezuela thing is especially insane because it goes against his own base even. Like, how did that process go? "They're asking me to do something about Venezuela...I know, I bet they mean include it in the travel ban!"
posted by corb at 9:45 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


there once was a man from New York
he ate pizza pies with a fork
posted by Behemoth at 9:47 AM on September 25 [72 favorites]


there once was a man from New York
he ate pizza pies with a fork


OMG! Regrets, I have a few.
posted by lalex at 9:49 AM on September 25 [39 favorites]


Don's tweeting caused anger and unrest -
Take a knee to protest was the best:
Constitutionally fine,
First amendment aligned -
Around Trump the hate coalesced.
posted by giraffeneckbattle at 9:49 AM on September 25 [12 favorites]


So much winning.

@richarddeitsch:
CBS says its NFL games were up four percent over last year's Week 3 games. GB-CIN is the highest rated game of the week so far.
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on September 25 [24 favorites]


A Canadian Doctor Explains How Her Country's Single-Payer Health Care System Works (NPR, Sept. 24, 2017) -- Canadian doctors aren't government employees, critical health issues are dealt with promptly while less concerning issues may take longer than Danielle Martin, the Canadian physician speaking on the topic, would like, and Canada spends around 10% of its GDP on health care to cover virtually every single resident of their land.

Compare and contrast: that figure is 17.8 percent in the US in 2015, when 9.1 percent of the US population was without health insurance coverage.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:54 AM on September 25 [45 favorites]


Of course I'm taking a knee for Colin Kaepernick.

No, no- I don't need any help getting up.



I'm just gonna rest here for a bit.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:55 AM on September 25 [44 favorites]


I really haven't ever enjoyed football and all of my associations with it tend to relate to a very miserable year in marching band in high school--but I am being sorely tempted to watch it now just out of pique.
posted by Sequence at 9:56 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


I'm not at all certain how I should be conducting myself in a reality where watching the NFL can be interpreted as an act of civil disobedience.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:57 AM on September 25 [154 favorites]


I'm preparing to do summaries of the Finance Committee hearing that's happening in an hour. I want everyone to know what these lying liars who lie all the time are going to say to justify their murderous legislation.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:59 AM on September 25 [39 favorites]


CBS says its NFL games were up four percent over last year's Week 3 games.

That's super. The NFL is still a thoroughly rotten organization and the world would be better off without it.
#supporttheplayers #fucktheNFL
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:00 AM on September 25 [25 favorites]


I don't see why kneeling for the national anthem is being taken as so disrespectful, other than overt racism. It seems like the most respectful protest option imaginable. Sitting on the bench or turning backs to the flag might be marginally less respectful actions, I guess. But kneeling? It's practically ceremonial.

If players were flipping the double bird at the flag, or dropping trou and wiping with the flag as forms of protest, then I would agree that it was "disrespectful". Maybe still justified - but at least I would agree with the description.
posted by allegedly at 10:00 AM on September 25 [98 favorites]


It's being taken as so disrespectful because Trump said it was disrespectful, and the MAGA chuds will follow him to hell.
posted by dilaudid at 10:02 AM on September 25 [38 favorites]


why kneeling for the national anthem is being taken as so disrespectful, other than overt racism.

Correct. Black people are never allowed to protest, so every way they try to do it is wrong.
posted by lalex at 10:03 AM on September 25 [235 favorites]


New details of GOP tax plan reveal focus on wealthy (Damian Paletta for Washington Post, September 24, 2017)
White House officials and Republican leaders are preparing a set of broad income and corporate tax cuts while also looking for a way to keep their plan from being a massive windfall for the wealthiest Americans, two people familiar with the plan said.

Party leaders are quietly circulating proposals to lower the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent and lower the top individual income tax rate from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, according to the people familiar with the plan.

White House advisers are divided over whether to cut the top individual tax rate, and Republican leaders, aware the plan could be construed as a huge giveaway to the wealthy, are trying to design features to the package that would ensure that the rich don't get too large a share of the plan's tax relief.
...
Top White House negotiators and key GOP leaders have agreed on those targets, but apparently President Trump has not. On Sunday, as he was about to board Air Force One in New Jersey, Trump told reporters he hoped to see the corporate tax rate lowered to 15 percent, a level that his own negotiators had privately dismissed weeks ago.

“We'll see what happens, but I hope it's going to be 15 percent,” he told reporters. “But it's going to be substantially lower so we bring jobs back to the country.”

The lack of agreement, days before the plan is set to be unveiled more broadly, underscore the difficult Republicans face in uniting behind a tax bill.

GOP leaders, including House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), have said it is impossible to cut the corporate rate to 15 percent without adding too much money to the federal debt. As it stands, the tax cut is expected to add at least $1 trillion to the debt, and potentially much more.
...
Among details that have become public, the plan's benefits would accrue largely to the wealthy, an awkward position for a president who promised his administration would be an economic boom for working-class and middle-class households.

Even the tax cut Trump is hoping to advance for companies that pay individual taxes would help thousands of upper-income business owners in a way critics have said could be gamed to lower their taxes even more. White House officials have said they would create “guardrails” to prevent against this but they have not explained how.
And diving into some details: A Tax Break on Repatriated Earnings Will Not Trickle Down to U.S. Workers (Steven M. Rosenthal for Tax Policy Center.org, September 25, 2017)
Top aides to President Donald Trump argue that tax relief for the accumulated foreign earnings of US-based multinational corporations would be a boon for US workers. But data show that providing such a tax break, which is likely to be a key element of the tax plan being written by the White House and congressional Republicans, would mostly benefit high-income US taxpayers and foreigners, not US workers.

Such a provision would allow US-based multinationals to repatriate untaxed foreign earnings at a special low tax rate. These corporations over many years have booked more than $2.6 trillion of their profits off-shore (PDF), but they’ve been allowed to defer paying the 35 percent US corporate tax due on these profits as long as they are not repatriated to the US parent firm.

A “one-time” repatriation holiday in 2004 taxed $299 billion of accumulated offshore profits that were repatriated to the parent firm at a preferential 5.25% rate. Backers promised the tax break would deliver jobs and investment but instead multinationals used the repatriated funds to pay dividends to shareholders and buy back their stock. In fact, the largest participants in the 2004 repatriation holiday cut jobs and research. Once the holiday ended, the multinationals went right back to accumulating earnings off-shore (and even stepped up the effort), anticipating another tax holiday.

Earlier this month, White House National Economic Council director Gary Cohn offered a new rationale for a tax break on accumulated offshore earnings: “The biggest public pension funds are the biggest owners of equities in the world. They’re the policemen, they’re the firemen and the teachers . . . So yes we’re helping Americans by delivering returns back to them.” But Mr. Cohn’s spin is wrong: A low tax rate on foreign earnings repatriated to the parent firm will not deliver any returns to policemen, firemen, teachers, and other participants in defined benefit plans (because an increase in the value of the assets held by these plans does not increase the ultimate pension payments promised to the beneficiaries). Such a policy shift delivers a windfall to the beneficiaries of defined contribution plans, because an increase in the value of assets held by these plans increases future distributions to beneficiaries. But defined contribution plans are held disproportionately by high-income individuals, not typical wage workers. Another large group that would benefit are foreigners, which are the next largest block of shareholders of US corporations behind pension funds. (Taxable U.S. shareholders hold the third largest block, about 25 percent).
Yeah, looks great for the country, especially if this is another albatross around the neck of the 2018 budget, as mentioned by Sen. Ron Johnson (R-WI) on NPR this morning (audio only at the moment, transcript due up later today).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:03 AM on September 25 [42 favorites]




"Respect" and "obedience" are seriously conflated, especially but not exclusively in the racial context. Protest itself is disrespectful in this model. Criticism is disrespectful. There is no way to respectfully disagree except to say nothing and do nothing, at least nothing that the public can perceive. Race plays into that, but evangelical churches also often follow this model, for example, as do more conservative models of parenting.
posted by Sequence at 10:05 AM on September 25 [30 favorites]


I see the boulder is back down at the bottom of the hill again

Well...let's get to pushing
posted by schadenfrau at 10:05 AM on September 25 [60 favorites]


@Charles Blow: "There is a profound question that we must ask in this country: Who has access to discontent?"
posted by lalex at 1:04 PM on September 25 [1 favorite −] Favorite added! [!]


White people still think that black folk should be grateful for giving them American Opportunities.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:05 AM on September 25 [21 favorites]


New details of GOP tax plan reveal focus on wealthy

whaaaaaaaaaa /moeszyslak
posted by entropicamericana at 10:07 AM on September 25 [17 favorites]


there once was a man from New York
whose success rivaled that of Rob Bork
posted by Mayor West at 10:07 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]


Party leaders are quietly circulating proposals to lower the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent and lower the top individual income tax rate from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, according to the people familiar with the plan.

Unconscionable. I'd love to see legislation from the progressive wing taxing long-term capital gains as ordinary income introduced in response. Fuck these vultures, hit them where they live.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:08 AM on September 25 [13 favorites]


Black people in America aren't even allowed to say "our lives matter" without a significant proportion of the white population getting the screaming shits about how disrespectful it is.
posted by supercrayon at 10:08 AM on September 25 [243 favorites]


White House officials and Republican leaders are preparing a set of broad income and corporate tax cuts while also looking for a way to keep their plan from being a massive windfall for the wealthiest Americans, two people familiar with the plan said.

Wait, is that a typo from the AP or was it just written by a Republican propagandist? The whole damn point of the Republican tax plan is to be a massive windfall for the wealthiest Americans. That's the purpose, right?

That's one of the core principles of the Republican Party: tax cuts for the rich and a middle finger for everyone else.
posted by sotonohito at 10:11 AM on September 25 [17 favorites]


I don't see why kneeling for the national anthem is being taken as so disrespectful, other than overt racism. It seems like the most respectful protest option imaginable. Sitting on the bench or turning backs to the flag might be marginally less respectful actions, I guess. But kneeling? It's practically ceremonial.

So I actually did think it was disrespectful, because the 'kneeling' I saw always seemed like the 'take a knee' when you're just waiting for time to be over or what have you. But someone with more football familiarity than me said that it's also the symbol when someone is wounded and needs to leave the field, so it becomes more symbolic - the US flag, its ideals, is wounded and needs help, and people are taking a knee until it recovers, like with a wounded player.
posted by corb at 10:12 AM on September 25 [63 favorites]


Sotonohito, what they meant to write was

while also looking for a way to keep their plan from appearing to be a massive windfall for the wealthiest Americans
posted by cell divide at 10:13 AM on September 25 [27 favorites]


I know its been, like, pretty much written in stone how much Trump thinks like a fascist. But I still feel a small amount of shock every time he's so blatant about it. In response to the NFL protesting, he tweeted that people who want access to jobs that pay millions shouldn't be allowed to "disrespect...", and just left it at that. AKA: I should choose who gets to be wealthy.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:13 AM on September 25 [5 favorites]


I don't see why kneeling for the national anthem is being taken as so disrespectful, other than overt racism.

It's because they're ungrateful, of course. Now that the MAGA hats have noticed that we're onto their old dog-whistles, they've gotta come up with a new one.
posted by Mayor West at 10:14 AM on September 25 [14 favorites]


From the link, New details of GOP tax plan reveal focus on wealthy: “We'll see what happens, but I hope it's going to be 15 percent,” [Trump] told reporters. “But it's going to be substantially lower so we bring jobs back to the country.”

Yeah, Donald, it's not the lower wages in other places, it's the tax structure here. What an iDJiT!
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:14 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]


Party leaders are quietly circulating proposals to lower the corporate tax rate ...

Unconscionable.


What can be done to encourage other countries to raise their tax rates?
posted by sammyo at 10:14 AM on September 25


Anthony Weiner Setenced to 21 months

Should have been 48, that's what the rest of us are serving.
posted by thelonius at 10:16 AM on September 25 [136 favorites]


“We'll see what happens, but I hope it's going to be 15 percent,” [Trump] told reporters. “But it's going to be substantially lower so we bring jobs back to the country.”

I wonder what would happen if someone told him that the corporate tax rate is 15% for the lowest bracket.
posted by Existential Dread at 10:17 AM on September 25 [8 favorites]


Should have been 48, that's what the rest of us are serving.

god what personal hell must Huma Abedin be living?
posted by lalex at 10:18 AM on September 25 [50 favorites]


Another thing that infuriates me about the kneeing protests during football games is how this situation would play out if the kneeler were that irritating twit Tim Tebow. Tebow is known for his overblown, public displays of Christian piety--whatever happen to 'pray not where the hypocrites pray'??. If Tebow were taking a knee to protest marriage equality during the national anthem, would we be hearing about how disrespectful he is to the flag/the country/the national anthem/the troops/whatever other institution? I venture that he wouldn't be publicly berated, but rather would garner effusive praise from the same crowd whining about Colin Kaepernick.

The facile objections to kneeling protests of police brutality against people of color are fundamentally a racist phenomenon. Crying foul over the flag and national anthem is a pretense to hide the real motivation: silencing the powerful non-verbal voices of brown people.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:20 AM on September 25 [76 favorites]


A lot of people in positions of even relative power and privilege don't want to acknowledge that these issues even exist, much less that they might benefit from them in any way, because it might lead to further uncomfortable questions about other aspects of their personal ideologies, and because they're terrified of losing whatever level of power and privilege they currently have; this is true of everyone from the Koch brothers to that angry guy in a MAGA hat propping up the bar. That these protests are taking place in the formerly safe space of NFL football only adds perceived insult to their psychic injury.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:20 AM on September 25 [10 favorites]


I've always said that the failure of Anthony Weiner to be killed by Clinton hired ninja is proof that the Clintons aren't the murderous criminal masterminds that the right likes to portray them as. Because damn, if they were murderous criminal masterminds with 1337 ninja on staff, then Weiner seems like he'd be at the top of the list...
posted by sotonohito at 10:21 AM on September 25 [82 favorites]


Anthony Weiner Setenced to 21 months
Compared to the penalties Trump didn't receive for what he did to underage girls... but then IOKWYA... Republican/TVCelebrity/NewYorkRealEstateMogul/OldFriendOfTheNYT
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:23 AM on September 25 [6 favorites]


I think it's also the case that you can also take a knee when you're receiving a kick and think that it won't be possible to sufficiently advance (that is, beyond the 20) during the current play. Which is pretty fitting, I think, though the "injury" interpretation is more so.
posted by Jpfed at 10:25 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]


A lot of people in positions of even relative power and privilege don't want to acknowledge that these issues even exist
"I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted by lalex at 10:25 AM on September 25 [157 favorites]


MAGA hats

Say it fast enough and it sounds like maggots.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:29 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


@jnsanchez: "Bob Costas NAILED this. Patriotism comes in many forms, but it's been conflated w/ bumper sticker flag waving & 'military only.'"
Part of what's happened is that sports and patriotism and the flag have been conflated to such an extent that people can't separate out any nuance.

If you go to see Hamilton, which is about the founding of the republic, no one says, "Wait a minute, don't raise the curtain until we hear the national anthem." When you went to see Private Ryan, no one said "turn off the projector"--Saving Private Ryan--no one said "turn off the projector until we've had the national anthem."

It's in sports where this stuff happens, sometimes movingly, sometimes, I'd submit, cynically, because wrapping yourself in the flag and honoring the military is something which no one is going to object to. We all respect their sacrifice. We all honor their sacrifice. And yet what it has come to mean is that the flag is primarily and only about the military.

This is no disrespect to the military; it's a huge part of the narrative. But Martin Luther King was a patriot. Susan B. Anthony was a patriot. Dissidents are patriots. School teachers and social workers are patriots.

And yet at Yankee Stadium, if we can shift sports, not only do they play the national anthem before the game, but they play "God Bless America" at the seventh-inning stretch 81 times a year at home games, and at every game they say please rise as the Yankees honor a military guest.

I have no problem with that; I stand every time I'm at a ballpark, no matter what it is, I stand. And I certainly respect the military person they bring out there, but there's never a school teacher, there's never a social worker.

Patriotism comes in many forms and what has happened is that it's been conflated with a kind of a bumper-sticker kind of flag-waving, and with the military only. So that people cannot see that in his own way Colin Kaepernick—however imperfectly—is doing a patriotic thing. And so too are some of these other players.
Bob Costas Eloquently Summarized Why the NFL Protests Matter
As Costas painstakingly repeats, honoring our military servicemen and women is a completely acceptable and commendable ritual at sporting events. But celebrating the troops has also become the only acceptable form of political expression in American sports, and has often been stripped of any kind of nuance to be a kind of, in Costas' words, "bumper-sticker flag waving." It has the air of the jingoism that pervaded the Bush era, when criticizing the ultimately disastrous war in Iraq, for instance, was conflated with criticizing the troops. It was not criticizing the troops, it was criticizing government policy that put them in harms way without justification or proper planning.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:29 AM on September 25 [166 favorites]


I know its been, like, pretty much written in stone how much Trump thinks like a fascist

The kneeling thing and the Steph Curry thing struck me as the usual rah rah "America #1, and I'm a baby that can't take criticism" bull shit we've seen from day one. I'm glad the NFL, the true representatives of American values if such a thing even exists in 2017, broadly and immediately demonstrated against Trump. Once you've lost football fans, you've lost America.

To me, the striking story is how The Orange Menace described watching two minutes of a game and declared that the rules instituted to prevent CTE are "ruining the game."

Trump Caesar actually came out and said he wants to throw black people into the Coliseum and watch them beat each other to death for our entertainment.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:31 AM on September 25 [35 favorites]



As someone who was raised watching NASCAR races on a very regular basis, including amazing times where The Intimidator did shit like the famous Pass In The Grass and pass other cars with most of his sheet metal missing in another race, I'm trying to think of what it would look like if Trump came after Earnhardt Jr.


Same deal as football. With NASCAR racing and with football, you have players putting themselves at the constant risk of deadly or severe injury from a split second's misdjudgement. Let's not pretend that's not what draws so many eager spectators. With football, we can add the certainty of being battered into an invalid.

Like gladiators, the players earn the prerogative to use their high media profile at least once. If Trump picks a fight with NASCAR, I would expect the result to be the same as what just happened.

Christ. It's 2017, Trump is president, and the heroes of the resistance include Roger Goodell and the juggalos. I'm tripping balls, dudes. I must be.
posted by ocschwar at 10:31 AM on September 25 [85 favorites]


And Teen Vogue. Don't forget Teen Vogue.
posted by Justinian at 10:35 AM on September 25 [123 favorites]


It doesn't matter if taking the knee represents respect, or the lack of it it, because they're both equally applicable. They're being disrespected, as they have been for four fucking centuries. As many veterans have explained, they didn't fight for billionaires to take away the 1st Amendment rights from what Trump and between 1/3 and 1/2 of the country seems to believe are a bunch of uppity Negroes. "Respecting the flag" says nothing about one's moral character, support for troops, being (Un-)American, and neither should taking the knee as a sign of disrespect. Also, it's worth noting that the military has spent millions of dollars over the years ($53m from 2012 to 2014 alone) to tie nationalist, jingoistic propaganda to the NFL. That tens of millions of racist dinguses fell for that doesn't mean any of us need to.

If there's any handwringing to be done over respecting the flag, aim it at the people who defend the flag of actual traitors who wanted--and let's be real, continue to want--a society built on bigotry and human suffering. That's a symbol worth disrespecting as much as possible.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:36 AM on September 25 [26 favorites]


Thank you, lalex, for the new thread.

I was afraid I was getting a little typecast around here.
posted by darkstar at 10:36 AM on September 25 [6 favorites]


I'm just barely caught up on this knee thing, and now NASCAR? Trump got me into twitter... is he going to drag me into sports now, too?
posted by Coventry at 10:39 AM on September 25 [5 favorites]


"so disrespectful to America!" they cry, sitting on their porches under the Confederate flag.
posted by lalex at 10:40 AM on September 25 [143 favorites]


I've always said that the failure of Anthony Weiner to be killed by Clinton hired ninja is proof that the Clintons aren't the murderous criminal masterminds that the right likes to portray them as.

Don't sell her short. She decided to run in the 2016 election at Oscar de la Renta's palatial beachfront estate in the Dominican Republic in December 2013 and he was dead by October.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:42 AM on September 25




No one advocating overwrought reverence for the flag and the National Anthem should be taken seriously unless they can sing the Star Spangled Banner in tune with good breath support.
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:43 AM on September 25 [8 favorites]




Don't forget the Alt National Parks, either. Very important allies.
posted by FirstMateKate at 10:43 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


Another thing that infuriates me about the kneeing protests during football games is how this situation would play out if the kneeler were that irritating twit Tim Tebow. Tebow is known for his overblown, public displays of Christian piety--

So actually, for people who are saying 'how dare he do this in public at all' or "the NFL should fire him", there's actually a case working its way towards the Supreme Court now about a high school coach who was fired for publicly praying on the field. He was fired by a school, which is a little different, but it's still a useful datapoint, especially the difference in Fox News coverage.
posted by corb at 10:46 AM on September 25 [6 favorites]


Seriously holding my breath til Saturday regarding Graham Cassidy. I am so sure they're going to pull some sneaky bullshit.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:46 AM on September 25 [20 favorites]


I kinda love Bob Costas, even though I'm not into the sports he covers, so I wish he'd said something about how the military PAYS for that 7th Inning "God Bless America with bonus soldier" stuff.
posted by rhizome at 10:53 AM on September 25 [8 favorites]




Watching the Graham-Cassidy Stakeout on CSPAN right now. Protestors are yelling "SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!", presumably because of the exclusion of disabled people in wheelchairs.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:56 AM on September 25 [6 favorites]


The Graham-Cassidy hearing will be streaming here (C-SPAN), and here's my health care twitter list for live analysis, snark, scorn, and coverage of the protest.
posted by zachlipton at 10:58 AM on September 25 [5 favorites]


BLM shut down some highways in MN during protests and white folks complained that it was obstructing people needing to get to work, hospitals, etc. Then BLM did their big protest at the Mall of America and people complained that it was in a public place, at Christmas, it could be dangerous and people were shopping with their kids! For real.

So yeah, another vote for POC are not allowed to protest except in spaces where white folks can ignore it, otherwise it's disrespectful, dangerous, obstructive, always something. Your protest is not allowed to make me uncomfortable in any way.

I've also been trying to get my brain around some idea of how pro sports are a structure where often white fans are consuming the bodily labor of POC but are Very Upset when those bodies have thoughts or ideas. And often get incredibly upset at having to contemplate how much those bodies are getting paid, even as we avidly consume their labor. I've already seen a lot of outrage over how, specifically, we pay "these guys" millions and they should just shut up and play.
posted by nakedmolerats at 10:59 AM on September 25 [92 favorites]




zachlipton thank you so much for this twitter list. I've been following it since you first set it up and it's been immensely helpful keeping abreast of all of the crazy crap happening.
posted by zrail at 11:00 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]


"Respect" and "obedience" are seriously conflated, especially but not exclusively in the racial context. Protest itself is disrespectful in this model. Criticism is disrespectful. There is no way to respectfully disagree except to say nothing and do nothing, at least nothing that the public can perceive. Race plays into that, but evangelical churches also often follow this model, for example, as do more conservative models of parenting.
Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”

and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person”

and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:00 AM on September 25 [105 favorites]


Once you've lost football fans, you've lost America.

Except he hasn't lost football fans. The fans hate this shit because football is supposed to be a safe place where black men beat the crap out of each other for their entertainment, not a place where they have to confront uncomfortable truths after a long week at work. The fans were actively booing their own teams on Sunday.
posted by Naberius at 11:01 AM on September 25 [66 favorites]


The Venezuela thing is especially insane because it goes against his own base even. Like, how did that process go? "They're asking me to do something about Venezuela...I know, I bet they mean include it in the travel ban!"

How does it go against his base? You do realize that MAGA people don't exactly care what South American country people come from before they discriminate against them, right?
posted by winna at 11:02 AM on September 25 [8 favorites]


From Julie Newmar, Catwoman:

"NFL
The players care more about our country than Trump does. I say -- KNEEL to your higher truth. Do not be afraid. Mr. President, it is you that has stunk up the meaning of the flag that all of us desire to hold so dear."


I'm with her.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:03 AM on September 25 [69 favorites]


Sen. Hatch to chanting protesters, many from ADAPT: "If you want a hearing, you better shut up"
posted by zachlipton at 11:04 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


Mrrow.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:05 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]


Hatch go suck your own cock
posted by angrycat at 11:07 AM on September 25 [22 favorites]


Well, do they have to have a hearing before a vote? That would make a difference.
posted by rhizome at 11:07 AM on September 25


If there is a reason to respect the American flag, it's because of the freedoms it is supposed to stand for. Like freedom of speech. Which includes the freedom from being compelled to speak. Exercising those freedoms is more respectful to the flag than blind obedience and empty salutes. If you demand that everyone stand and participate in the flag salute, you'd be better off hacking the flag up and burning in it, because you obviously don't believe in the freedoms for which it should stand.
posted by Zalzidrax at 11:08 AM on September 25 [11 favorites]


They're now dragging people out of the room, including removing people from their wheelchairs.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:08 AM on September 25 [11 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL Senate special:
-- Last minute polls show Moore maintaining a near double digit lead; 54-46 (Strategy Research) and 55-45 (Optimus).

-- Karl Rove points out that Moore would be an easy way for Dems to tag other Republicans as extremist, a la Todd Akin a few cycles back. [NYT]
** VA gov -- Wason Center poll has Northam up 47-41. This race has had some polling spread, but this is consistent with the average.

** 2018 Senate:
-- MI: MRG poll has Stabenow handily defeating potential GOP nominee (sigh) Kid Rock, 52-34.

-- 538 goes through some outlier scenarios of what could happen in Senate races.
** Odds & ends -- Dems making retaking state AG offices a big focus for 2018. [Politico]


** Five elections tomorrow of note - specials in NH, SC, and FL, and of course the GOP primary for the Alabma Senate special. Updates as they come.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:08 AM on September 25 [24 favorites]


If one wants a good round up of how different teams have been responding, GQ has a good article.
posted by joycehealy at 11:08 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]


"It is easy to protest injustice in a way all people, even your oppressors, can respect."

MLK Jr. in Letters from a Birmingham Public Park

/notreal
posted by Groundhog Week at 11:08 AM on September 25 [20 favorites]


The committee is being called to order by Orrin Hatch. Protestors are chanting, "Show us humanity, save our liberty!". Hatch is flabbergasted. Said, "If you want a hearing, you'd better shut up." Grassley and Hatch are looking smug AF. Hatch bangs gavel again. Wyden is looking stern, but not disturbed.

Cops are removing a woman in a wheelchair. Looks like they are going to drag people out to silence them. ADAPT are fucking heroines--true patriots showing the world what a just peaceful protest looks like. They haven't yet pulled someone from a chair in the hearing room.

Shouts of "Show us humanity, save our liberty!!" are getting louder. Oh jesus, they are carrying out a protestor :'(--they removed him from his chair. This is disgusting. Hatch has contempt for the patriots protesting written all over his face. Hatch says "The committee will be in recess until we have order." Most of he Republicans have just filed out of the chamber. Looks like some of the Democrats are staying? Sens Hirono and Graham are seated at the witness chairs.

Cops still removing the protestors. These heroines are there showing the country how disgusting Graham-Cassidy is--forcing the Republicans to have people in wheelchairs forcibly removed from the chamber.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:13 AM on September 25 [146 favorites]


Sure hope the goddamned mainstream media is showing some of this.
posted by Melismata at 11:16 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


I've also been working out the logic (ha) behind supporting people like Kim Davis for "religious freedom" -- at their jobs -- but crying that people exercising free speech "at their job" should be fired. Because, you know, I think it's shitty but sure, the NFL as an employer has the right to fire someone, just like whatever channel fired Duck Dynasty for being homophobes.

It really underscores that they absolutely don't think freedom of speech is "worth" as much as freedom of religion, even though there they both are in the 1st amendment.

I don't know what to do with this information.
posted by nakedmolerats at 11:16 AM on September 25 [10 favorites]


Protestors are chanting, "Show us humanity, save our liberty!"

I think it's "No cuts to medicaid, save our liberty!"
posted by melissasaurus at 11:17 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


the US flag, its ideals, is wounded and needs help, and people are taking a knee until it recovers, like with a wounded player.

Nah its more to do with black people being killed
posted by dmh at 11:18 AM on September 25 [7 favorites]


You can donate to ADAPT here. Also mad props, respect, and love to MeFi's own angrycat for her work with ADAPT.

Also, the chant is "No cuts to Medicaid, save our liberty." Totally balled that up. They are dragging a blind man out now. The Republicans have fucked off, by and large, into their holes, while most of the Democrats remain to witness the brutality on display by Chairman Hatch's goons.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:19 AM on September 25 [52 favorites]


It really underscores that they absolutely don't think freedom of speech is "worth" as much as freedom of religion, even though there they both are in the 1st amendment.

It has nothing to do with Constitutionally based ideological consistency. It has to do with "These people are doing a thing I agree with, therefore they are doing it correctly" vs. "Those people are doing a thing I do not agree with, therefore they are doing it incorrectly."
posted by Etrigan at 11:19 AM on September 25 [10 favorites]


Andrew Prokop, Vox: GOP can't quit Obamacare repeal because of their donors

The Republicans, at least, blatantly don't answer to their constituents. They answer to wealthy donors and only wealthy donors. And it seems to be getting harder for them to thread the needle between pleasing donors and pleasing or at least fooling voters.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:20 AM on September 25 [39 favorites]


Hatch is now called for order. Shouts still ring out in the background. Details that G-C is unusual. Hatch directs cops to silence protestors through removal and to shut the door. Hatch is detailing the witness list--including Graham, Hirono, and various stakeholders. Hatch is pissed that people have the temerity to demand that Medicaid get cut. Hatch expects many disagreements on these topics. Now he's detailing all these 'contentious debates' in the Senate. He keeps calling for 'respect'--subservience from poor people most affected by their murderous legislation.

Hatch recognises that the legislation affects many people, many industries. Says "I respect your opinions on these issues. I wish that expressions of goodwill could fix these issues, but that is not the case." He's trying to delegitimize the protests by noting that disabled people being dragged from the chamber make good camera ops. Hatch wants a "civil discussion", but invokes the idea that he doesn't want the hearing to be a "political sideshow".
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:25 AM on September 25 [19 favorites]


North Korean Foreign Minister Says Trump Has ‘Declared War’

♫♪   All we are saying/Is give impeachment a chance…   ♬♩
posted by mazola at 11:26 AM on September 25 [13 favorites]


The CSPAN feed from the hallways is more compelling than the hearing.
posted by anastasiav at 11:27 AM on September 25 [5 favorites]


I am literally seeing facebook posts from the Trumpenmensch about boycotting the NFL.

These geniuses can be made to reject anything, even the most "American" of things, at the bidding of Yell Grampa, while still somehow considering themselves super patriotic, the bestest and most patriotic of all.

It boggles the mind. If Trump came out against apple pie they'd all start cutting down orchards.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:27 AM on September 25 [29 favorites]


A new thread, a new drawing; this time of the loathsome Ted Cruz, because why not?

The thing I don't get most about this permanently deep frying shitshow is the disconnect of Trump supporters. I'm Canadian, and the place I work in, a large union government warehouse, has Trump supporters. So strange but fortunately I am very good at deflecting when they want to engage. I'm a middle aged white man in a very multicultural environment so I must have the same politics, right? Nothing seems to dim their enthusiasm, nothing.

Anyways, feel free to download, share, what have you, as always.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 11:30 AM on September 25 [29 favorites]


Can anyone help me out with this?

When congress writes marginal bills and then carves out special treatment for certain states -by name- in order to buy off their congresspersons (like they were attempting with Murkowski via exemptions to allow Alaska to retain key aspects of Obamacare), how does that not violate some combination of the 5th and 14th amendments (Due Process, Equal Protection). I understand that the 14th amendment only "applies" to (mentions) states, however it seems that has been successfully argued in the past that Due Process clause covers approximately the same ground.

Can't a lawsuit argue that the Federal government is privileging Alaskans over the rest of the country? Is this why they included Hawaii in that exemption? Is the Due Process clause not broad enough to cover this?
posted by no1hatchling at 11:32 AM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Can't a lawsuit argue that the Federal government is privileging Alaskans over the rest of the country? Is this why they included Hawaii in that exemption? Is the Due Process clause not broad enough to cover this?

I can't imagine California is going to take this lying down so I'm sure there will be a lawsuit of some sort.
posted by zrail at 11:34 AM on September 25 [4 favorites]


CSPAN hallway feed just ended very abruptly and with no warning.
posted by anastasiav at 11:35 AM on September 25


I could really do without the speechifying. I understand that's essentially what these hearings amount to much of the time but... sorry Wyden I'm falling asleep here.
posted by Justinian at 11:35 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Audible chanting has ceased just as suddenly in the hearing as well.
posted by perspicio at 11:36 AM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Wyden has an opening statement. Notes that the Trumpcare bill is a lemon--he notes that it will be terrible for 10s of millions of American. He notes that sponsors won't wait on the CBO score before modifying the score. Wyden shredding the process. Notes that the American people Do NOT want the bill. Notes that this bill is about as popular "Ongoing root canal work". Says that the rightwing Republican donor class are the only people who want the ACA to go away. Notes how the bill punishes states who have innovated under the ACA to provide better insurance. Wyden calls bullshit on the term 'flexibility'. Says that the real object of bill is to do worse, so Americans pay more for less care. Says the bill guts funding by way of block grants. Compares proposed system to the hunger games. Notes that preexisting protections will be GONE. Says that the bill reinstates lifetime caps. Says the bill "is an all out assault" on consumer protections in insurance markets.

Wyden says that the bill lacks definitions and enforcement teeth. Notes that Planned Parenthood is under attack and eliminates women's healthcare choice.

closing Points. The process has been an abomination. Wyden notes the frustration of the protestors. Says that this hearing is a talking point. He says the purpose is so Republican can go home to constituents and pass off this kayfabe off as 'regular order'. CBO won't be able to get a score out for weeks. Notes the bill keeps changing because they have to pass it under reconciliation by the end of the week. Wyden wants to work on bipartisan priorities. Wants to fund CHIP, wants to stabilize the private insurance markets. Says that Democrats want to stop the bill and wants to work on real, difficult bipartisan solutions to these issues.

Wyden is pissed that Hatch has held the room in a tiny room. Gets unanimous consent to get an objection letter into the record. Wyden legitimizes the protestors who are trying to get in the room. The room can only hold 30 members of the public. He says that the largest rooms for hearings are available. Notes that the majority wants to keep the bill hidden.

Notes that Cassidy wants to be both a member and a witness--calls bullshit on this. Says Cassidy wants to "apply flexibility" to himself. Hatch jokes that he won't let Cassidy ask questions of himself, demonstrating that he is not taking this hearing seriously.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:37 AM on September 25 [98 favorites]


Now now, root canals are useful things and don't condemn millions of people to early, painful, debt-ridden deaths.
posted by tilde at 11:39 AM on September 25 [8 favorites]


As we're all watching the hearing, Sarah Sanders is off telling the press that football players protesting is no longer about police abuses and "the focus has long since changed. She's claiming that protesters should be protesting "the officers protecting them on the field" if it was really about police brutality.

When congress writes marginal bills and then carves out special treatment for certain states -by name- in order to buy off their congresspersons

They usually don't call them out by name. They write stuff like "the case of the State with the highest separate poverty guideline for 2017." Everybody knows that means Alaska, but it's usually considered to be legal.
posted by zachlipton at 11:40 AM on September 25 [11 favorites]


kirkaracha: in Costas' words, "bumper-sticker flag waving."

Nice. In the words of Sage Francis: don't waive your rights with your flag
posted by filthy light thief at 11:42 AM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Here is an argument that, in targeting and clawing back money from states which expanded Medicaid (without warning those states in advance that this was a possibility), GC is unconstitutional in that it violates the standard for a coercive use of spending authority.


Can't a lawsuit argue that the Federal government is privileging Alaskans over the rest of the country? Is this why they included Hawaii in that exemption? Is the Due Process clause not broad enough to cover this?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:43 AM on September 25 [3 favorites]


I don't wish to disrespect "the troops."* However, it takes all sorts of people to make this country work. A few years ago, someone posted a "remember those who make this holiday possible" meme on Labor Day, with a picture of servicemen in Iraq. In short: the poster felt that a day to honor workers had to also honor "the troops." Never mind that without labor, they wouldn't have the equipment to do their job...

I feel as though much of this started as a reaction to tales of Vietnam-era soldiers being spat upon, called baby killers, etc. While that is not a good reaction, either, we are presented a perspective that being in the military is the only honorable path, to the point that even questioning that perspective is not just unpatriotic but treasonous.

Could their be a happy medium? Could we support the troops without having bombastic displays at every event? Can we say it takes not just the military but workers, the press, teachers, first responders, and, yes, even protesters to make this country great? I personally don't want to live in a Heinlein novel.

May if we were to see past that, we could talk about the message of the NFL's protest, and not the media. Hell, maybe it'd open the door to a frank discussion about the role of the US military and the recent wars.

*The fact that I felt the need to open with such a disclaimer speaks volumes.
posted by MrGuilt at 11:43 AM on September 25 [25 favorites]


The pushback against the protests is just them going back to their old playbook from the Iraq war. If you dissent, you're not patriotic. And it worked for them then. But it's not working for them now. The public is not buying this bullshit.
posted by azpenguin at 11:44 AM on September 25 [12 favorites]


Graham arguing that blue states spend the most money under ObamaCare but not the reason why, because Republicans declined the free expansion money. They're using their own sabotage to justify ending Medicaid.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:44 AM on September 25 [57 favorites]


Hatch is introducing Graham and Hirono for their opening statements.

Graham is opening with his remarks. Says Obamacare is 'a disaster' for SC. Hatch says he wants to help. Graham making claims about insurers and premiums in SC. Does not mention that SC has not expanded Medicaid. Claims that Medicaid and Medicare will take all federal spending. Graham is being a real motherfucker--spouting bullshit. No one can trust this crap.

Graham preemptively tries to head off questioning his motives. He is spouting a bunch of buzzwords and talking points, sprinkled contextless statics. Says that the bill allows for setting up single payer. Notes how his bill steals money from blue states to give them red ones who have done a shitty job of providing healthcare to their citizens.

He's disingenuously suggesting that state officials currently have no input into healthcare/Obamacare. He's spouting bullshit and is giving and drooling and unhinged statement. What horseshit.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:44 AM on September 25 [24 favorites]


support the troops: don't send them off to kill and die for corporate profits
posted by entropicamericana at 11:45 AM on September 25 [25 favorites]


Another thing that infuriates me about the kneeing protests during football games is how this situation would play out if the kneeler were that irritating twit Tim Tebow

I have a super duper religious Republican Facebook friend who has unfollowed but not de-friended me. I normally don't engage much on her political posts, because I've got a feeling I can only do it so many times before she defriends me. But she posted that she thought, instead of kneeling, the football players should all hold up a photo of a dead soldier. Because that was the only kind of political statement that was appropriate during the anthem -- gratitude for those who defend our freedom. I said "Or they could hold up a picture of an innocent black man shot by police." She deleted that comment, but then some of her other friends chimed in, defending the kneelers. A surprisingly honest and open discussion followed, and I participated, and it ended with her linking to this: Colin Kaepernick vs. Tim Tebow: A tale of two Christians on their knees. And she seemed to concede that Kaepernick could be trying to live out his beliefs, to follow his conscience, and that we need to make a better effort to understand each other.

So if you have super duper religious Republican friends, that might be a good one to share.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:46 AM on September 25 [53 favorites]


Graham also said with a straight face that the block-grant funding "would have to be used on healthcare" - not on roads, or bridges etc. (paraphrasing). Surely he knows that money is fungible?
posted by mrgoat at 11:48 AM on September 25 [8 favorites]


lalex: "so disrespectful to America!" they cry, sitting on their porches under the Confederate flag.

And in the grocery store, as they ring up your produce and frozen goods. I said this in the last thread, but I first heard that the Steelers weren't going on the field until after the anthem was over because people working in the grocery store started discussing this. In New Mexico, not the south. And in a decently blue county (Sandoval Co., fwiw).

This is either ridiculously divisive, or I have more conservative neighbors than I realized. Either way, I am sad, mostly because this was the event that made these folks get so upset as to bring politics into the grocery store, which has otherwise been a neutral territory as far as I've seen. So are these white folks racist, or hyper patriotic in that Everyone Must Stand For The Anthem? I tried to engage with them, but I was pissed off and confused and I only thought of more casual conversation starters when I had left the store.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:49 AM on September 25


Sen Hirono is up. Notes people find out about debilitating diseases unexpectedly. She notes that is getting great care and compassion from total strangers. She notes that leaders should reflect compassion in their actions. Notes that compassion should not be so absent in the legislation of the wealthiest nation in the world. She notes that healthcare is a right. Says G-C is cruel. Says it is impossible to plan for catastrophic illness. Notes that ACA has dramatically reduced medical bankruptcy. Notes that 32 million people will lose care. Notes how the bill undermines the care of 134 million people living with pre-existing conditions. Notes that the bill will charge people more if they are ill.

She says that the bill does not protect the people. Says that the people cannot trust the regime to do the right thing on healthcare. says insurance companies could use age, health status, and set lifetime caps. Says that she personally would hit lifetime limits in a 'nanosecond'. Says the bill cuts hundreds of billions. Says that the bill punishes states with expanded medicaid and rewards the foot dragging red ones. Notes that children and the elderly will have their care undermined. Says that people should be able to depending on getting healthcare when they need it. States unequivocally that healthcare is a right.

Exhorts the Senate to return to the process that Sens Murray and Alexander have been working out.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:51 AM on September 25 [55 favorites]


mrgoat: Graham also said with a straight face that the block-grant funding "would have to be used on healthcare" - not on roads, or bridges etc. (paraphrasing). Surely he knows that money is fungible?

U.S. federal block grants have limitations. I'm not aware of any "free money" that the Feds give to states as a block grant. Money as a concept is fungible, but block grants have rules, and if you as a state agency do not follow those rules and say spend health care block grant funds on roads or schools, the feds can and will ask you to pay back those funds.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:53 AM on September 25 [5 favorites]


Graham and Hirono both gave their statements, and then left the chamber without any questions, as is typical. Graham is just going to leave this to Cassidy to defend I guess.
posted by zachlipton at 11:54 AM on September 25 [2 favorites]


Some yelling audible from within the Senate chamber (presumably from outside of it)...
posted by dhens at 11:56 AM on September 25


Hatch cries some crocodile tears about Senator Hirono's recovery. Disgusting in the context of trying to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans prematurely. Hatch is now introducing the liar Bill Cassidy, who wants to be both committee member and witness.

Now we're on to Mr. Frothy Mixture of Fecal Matter and Lube himself. The fact that this disgusting shitbird is involved all makes me want to puke.

Third witness is Arkansas Secretary of Health and Human Services Bill(?) Smith. Fourth Witness is Tereasa Miller, PA Secretary of HHS. Fifth is Cindy Mann, former deputy director of CHIP at CMS and former research professor. Dick Wodruff of the American Cancer Society.

Sorry these summaries are not very good. Most of these people I am not familiar with.

Shouts of Shame! ring out in the background.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:57 AM on September 25 [36 favorites]


I'm not watching but I'm so grateful for the summaries. Thank you!
posted by mochapickle at 12:01 PM on September 25 [33 favorites]


You know, if there's a single good thing to come out of the utter shit-show that has been American public life in the past year, it's that a lot more Americans are aware of the existence of totally bad-ass disability rights activists who are people with disabilities. I'd like to believe that at least some people are going to think twice about their pity narratives after this.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:02 PM on September 25 [45 favorites]


Newsweek: Ivanka Trump Used a Personal Email Account for Government Work: Exclusive
Ivanka Trump, the first daughter and adviser to the president, used a personal email address to communicate with a government official after her father took office, according to documents that the nonprofit American Oversight obtained through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and shared exclusively with Newsweek.

The documents show that on February 28, Trump—identifying herself as Ivanka Kushner—emailed Linda McMahon, the administrator of the United States Small Business Administration, from a personal domain. At the time, Trump was operating inside the White House in a nonofficial capacity. She wrote that she wanted McMahon’s agency and her staff to “explore opportunities to collaborate” on issues related to “women’s entrepreneurship.” She copied on the correspondence the government email addresses of two other federal employees, Dina Powell and Julie Radford.

Trump became an unpaid federal employee in March. But multiple government ethics experts say she likely could have had access to a White House email account in February, given that she is first daughter. Radford, her chief of staff, had a White House email address at the time.
How does a non-employee without a government email have a chief of staff who has one?
posted by zachlipton at 12:02 PM on September 25 [71 favorites]


The dishonorable Bill Cassidy who lied to Jimmy Kimmel on TV. Cassidy apologizing to Wyden about the process. He's really disgusting because he's saying the insurance market is failing in LA, even though they have fucked their own citizens over because they won't use the ACA system. Notes how his experience as a doctor gives him insight into G-C. He's giving a classic lesson in how to strip context from statistics to support lies. He keeps trying to suggest that his murderous legislation will allow states like Oregon to keep the ACA, while dilberately not mentioning that the funding is cut.

Looool, says that they aren't affecting "6%" of the market--instead of 1/6th. Later corrects. He's trying to defend corrupted, scheming governors who did not expand Medicaid to score racist political points. Tries pass off a few states getting more money as making up for blue states losing hundreds of billions of dollars.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:03 PM on September 25 [16 favorites]


Ivanka's email signature is "Get Outlook for iOS"
posted by zachlipton at 12:05 PM on September 25 [31 favorites]


Santorum saying that this bill is basically just as "good" as the Welfare Reform Bill of 1996, and attacking the integrity / motives of the protestors in the halls. Good times.
posted by dhens at 12:05 PM on September 25


Basically Santorum is saying 'this bill is so modest, why are you complaining, you have no idea how bad we would make it if we thought we could get away with it'.
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:06 PM on September 25 [10 favorites]


The 1% is not going to take on more workers simply because they have a fatter purse due to tax reductions. The only thing that's going to drive hiring in the private sector is an increase in demand - more people out in the street buying. Now, there are only so many 14-karat yachts the wealthiest Americans are going to buy, and it's not enough for Gilded Shipyards, Inc. to take on more full-time workers at a living wage with benefits.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 12:07 PM on September 25 [15 favorites]


My clock radio woke me up today to one of bill's authors bloviating about how unfair it apparently is that states who opted into Obamacare get more out of it than states who opted out and... I mean, it did wake me up, I'll say that.

Can't recommend hate-brushing your teeth, though.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 12:07 PM on September 25 [33 favorites]


Mr. Rick Frothy Mix Santorum is up. Invoking his disabled daughter as a why he's doing this shit. Tries to say that Obama care is collapsing, without noting how the Republican party has sabotaged the ACA at every turn. He's trying to defend gutting Medicaid, by invoking on gutting the social safety net in 1996. This patriarchal shithead keeps using the term 'hysterical', because caring about healthcare is apparently due to having a uterus.

I really hate Santorum. He has no real statistic--just unhinged, bullshit talking points disconnected to any data. Trying spin Medicaid per capita cap and block grants as positives. Trying to say that expansion at the rate of medical inflation is good. Says that we aren't going back to the old system because there's 1.2T dollar distributed such that blue states are fucked over. What is a liar.

Hysteria count: 3
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:08 PM on September 25 [36 favorites]


someone posted a 'remember those who make this holiday possible' meme on Labor Day

The Knights of Labor and the Central Labor Union, who called for a holiday honoring labor in 1882?

Or Eugene V. Debs and the American Railway Union, who launched the Pullman Strike in 1894? Or President Grover Cleveland, who pushed the legislation establishing Labor Day through Congress six days after the Pullman Strike in an attempt to placate workers?
posted by kirkaracha at 12:10 PM on September 25 [24 favorites]


My clock radio woke me up today to one of bill's authors bloviating about how unfair it apparently is that states who opted into Obamacare get more out of it than states who opted out and... I mean, it did wake me up, I'll say that.
Welcome to the 2017 grimdark reboot of "Groundhog Day", where Mitch McConnell forces America to relive the same thing over and over until the day finally goes perfectly (from his perspective..)
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:11 PM on September 25 [23 favorites]


Phobos the Space Potato: My clock radio woke me up today to one of bill's authors bloviating about how unfair it apparently is that states who opted into Obamacare get more out of it than states who opted out and... I mean, it did wake me up, I'll say that.

THIS KILLS ME (not hearing it on the radio as a morning alarm, but the [lack of] reporting this shit): if reporters would only interject after "we're making it fair" by asking "by taking funding from states who chose to opt in and giving them to states who did not?"

Just ask that one simple question, because I can't think of a way to squirm out of that question. "We're making it more fair" is such utter bullshit.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:11 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Remember in the 21st century jocks are joining ant-racist resistance and the nerds are all Nazis
posted by The Whelk at 12:12 PM on September 25 [53 favorites]


U.S. federal block grants have limitations. I'm not aware of any "free money" that the Feds give to states as a block grant. Money as a concept is fungible, but block grants have rules, and if you as a state agency do not follow those rules and say spend health care block grant funds on roads or schools, the feds can and will ask you to pay back those funds.

That's not what "fungible" means. It means that if a state spends $X on healthcare and gets $Y from some other source that it is only allowed to spend on healthcare, it will not end up spending $X+$Y on healthcare. It will lower $X and send the money to other things (or possibly just cut taxes, if the legislature is particularly stupid and craven).

This was seen in a lot of lottery states where all the money had to go to schools. Total school expenditures didn't grow by much because legislators said "Well, they're getting all that lottery money, so we don't have to give schools as much from the discretionary pots", so in many places they flatlined or even declined.
posted by Etrigan at 12:12 PM on September 25 [59 favorites]


I realized this morning that the people spouting the most hateful shit on my fb feed are people who have never taken the time (and won't take the time) to get involved at a local level so I'm not real concerned about these fucks spending time on doing any actual work. A ton of them aren't even registered to vote.

And jfc. Just saw a newsblip that the orange shitstain will be speaking in Indy on Wednesday.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 12:13 PM on September 25




the nerds are all Nazis

Like hell they are. There are PLENTY of Antifa nerds.
posted by Foosnark at 12:13 PM on September 25 [54 favorites]


filthy light thief: if reporters would only interject after "we're making it fair" by asking "by taking funding from states who chose to opt in and giving them to states who did not?"

And if I were a snarky reporter, I'd follow up by asking "Aren't you trying to make this more of a socialist scheme and undermining states rights by taking money from those who chose to opt in and giving it to states who didn't want increased benefits for their citizens?"
posted by filthy light thief at 12:13 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]


Smith, AR secretary of HHS. Says he supports the bill. Making random arguments that are disingenuous. Trying to saying that it's 13 million more people on Medicaid because of ACA are a problem. Basically saying that people without much income are a problem. Says he wants to work on CHIP, but invokes capped allotment to the states. Talking about per capita caps--says that all the states with 1115 waiver have them. So in essence, he's claiming they are good because corrupt, racist governors decided that killing their citizens would be better than expanding Medicaid.

Ugh, this guy seems to be Gish Galloping -- just spouting statistics without real context, trying to obscure the reality of how the bill will implemented.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:15 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


Money as a concept is fungible, but block grants have rules, and if you as a state agency do not follow those rules and say spend health care block grant funds on roads or schools, the feds can and will ask you to pay back those funds.

This is less than the full truth. The "rules" are vague enough that states can redirect funds to activities that were never intended.

Welfare reform in 1996 was structured as block grants and is a textbook example. Today, in some states, as little as 8% of block grants go to basic assistance for poor families. Instead, for example, it is directed to private contractors providing abstinence training.
posted by JackFlash at 12:16 PM on September 25 [29 favorites]


Could we support the troops without having bombastic displays at every event?

And just, you know, fund their medical care fully, including mental health, and provide them adequate housing?
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:18 PM on September 25 [49 favorites]


filthy light thief: U.S. federal block grants have limitations. I'm not aware of any "free money" that the Feds give to states as a block grant. Money as a concept is fungible, but block grants have rules, and if you as a state agency do not follow those rules and say spend health care block grant funds on roads or schools, the feds can and will ask you to pay back those funds.

Etrigan: That's not what "fungible" means. It means that if a state spends $X on healthcare and gets $Y from some other source that it is only allowed to spend on healthcare, it will not end up spending $X+$Y on healthcare. It will lower $X and send the money to other things (or possibly just cut taxes, if the legislature is particularly stupid and craven).

This was seen in a lot of lottery states where all the money had to go to schools. Total school expenditures didn't grow by much because legislators said "Well, they're getting all that lottery money, so we don't have to give schools as much from the discretionary pots", so in many places they flatlined or even declined.


This is two different issues. It is true that block grants have limitations, and it is true that state legislators can then say "look, we're getting all this Federal funding for [thing], so we don't have to allocate as much to it!" without looking at how the block grants work and what they won't cover, and what state match is required. For instance, local entities can get funding to support transit (bus-type) services, but infrastructure purchases are supported at an 80/20 ratio, with 80% federal funding and 20% local or state. But operational expenses are a 50/50 split.

This is less than the full truth. The "rules" are vague enough that states can redirect funds to activities that were never intended.

Welfare reform in 1996 was structured as block grants and is a textbook example. Today, in some states, as little as 8% of block grants go to basic assistance for poor families. Instead, for example, it is directed to private contractors providing abstinence training.


This can also be true, where the rule-makers want to dilute the benefit of the funds.

In short: block grants are trickier than they seem, and I agree that getting federal funds can make states neglect some programs.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:19 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


Oh speaking of on the ground Grassroots stuff one idea the Socialist feminist working group of my DSA branch has floated is helping eligible people sign up for Medicare, the more people on it the better it works and there are huge numbers of people in places like Buffalo who are eligible but not signed up
posted by The Whelk at 12:20 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]


Ms. Miller is up. Concerned about this bill becoming law. Notes that PA is experience an all time low in uninsured rate. Notes that 175k peeps have being able to access addiction treatment because of ACA. Says that the ACA is not perfect and notes that there are ways to stabilize the individual markets. Says there are bipartisan solutions. Says that this bill is just a pretense for killing the ACA that would be the largest transfer federal funds to the states. Notes that PA would lose 15B - 30B over the next ten years. Says it forces governors to make impossible decision about who should be getting healthcare. Says that states can be more responsive to citizens, but cutting billions from Medicaid and expiring block grants is not the way to do. Says she does not know how PA could revamp their healthcare system in 2 years, if G-C-H-J to implement.

Says that the funding disappears after 7 years. Would make it impossible to sustain the systems put in place within two years. Says that addressing these issues would not actually fix this devastating bill. Asks them not paper over the horrifying cuts, which would affect the most vulnerable people. Asks the Senate to return to bipartisan process.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:20 PM on September 25 [45 favorites]


From Julie Newmar, Catwoman


Thanks for everything, Julie Newmar!



I can't believe I got to squeeze in a "To Wong Foo" reference!
posted by darkstar at 12:22 PM on September 25 [41 favorites]


Cindy Mann is up. Says the ACA has been good for providing more healthcare at a lower cost. Notes that almost all major healthcare group oppose the Graham-Cassidy bill. Says that there are ways we could improve the current. Says that it would create chaos and uncertainty if the bill passes. Says the bill create instability in our system. Would also take away financial resources and certainty in how states manage healthcare.

First, G-C builds on BCRA--worse version of the shit that the Senate killed in July. Says G-C cuts are more draconian--bigger cuts to Medicaid expansion. No more funding at regular match to be able to cover very low-income adults. Says it would cut Medicaid for nearly everyone, including pregnant women, children, elderly people, and people with disabilities. If Congress passes it, it cuts funding for everyone the sponsors claim they are protecting.

Second, second that block grants do not grow based on the actual cost of care. Grants cut 82B dollars in next ten years. If costs rises, the gap of funding and need widens. Says that the bill creates a one-size-fits-all funding formula. 29 states receive, with a reduction average of 19%. Says six states would see funding cut by more than 50%. Says the cuts would be left to secretary discretion. Says that increases for one state means there must be a decrease for another. Says that women will not be able to use Planned Parenthood.

Finally, G-C would create chaos. 23 million are projected to receive coverage in 2019. In G-C on Jan 1 in 2020, the bill would end that. Says it is delusional that states would be able to handle. Says the bill is full of state-specific fixes to buy off senators.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:28 PM on September 25 [23 favorites]


Three things.

Most importantly, write your congresspeople demanding greater hurricane relief aid to Puetro Rico. The situation is dire. NYT published this break down of some other ways you can help a few days ago, but additional organized federal assistance would be huge.

Second, regarding the flag kerfuffle, conservatives have an eons old thing about elevating symbols above the things the symbols represent (there's a whole thing I've read but can't find about how Evangelical Christianity is a religion about Christ, not the religion of Christ and how elevating Jesus above his message is the source of at least some of their nonsense). This is one way of controlling people. Get them enraged about an insult to a symbol while simultaneously destroying or altering the things that symbol stands for.

Anyhow, the main thing is that the flag is not a symbol of soldiers and first responders. Its a symbol of our values as a country as expressed in our founding documents. Bigger picture, its a symbol of all of us US citizens and everything good and everything bad we do. I encourage you to push back when people try to narrow the focus down to just the military, the police and (to a lesser extent) the fire department. That's why they use "first responders." You might have a legitimate beef with the actions of the armed services or the police, but everyone respects the fire department.

Finally, a general reminder to take some time for self care. This is an especially maddening month (and the madness shows no signs of slowing down). We can't help anyone if we're too exhausted and wounded to work. Turn off the Internet and go outside or read a book or do whatever let's your mind relax a bit.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:29 PM on September 25 [30 favorites]


Today is NBA media day and Lebron had more thoughts: "The people run this country, not one individual. And damn sure not him."
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:31 PM on September 25 [63 favorites]


I just remembered that there are Christians who refuse to recite the Pledge of Allegiance because it's idolatry (Google search.) What do you want to bet that if asked, the kneeling-outraged will say that those Christians don't need to lose their jobs and aren't disrespecting the military?
posted by XMLicious at 12:32 PM on September 25 [10 favorites]


Um. Trump did a phone interview for something called the Rick & Bubba show to promote Strange. At the end of the interview, the hosts asked Trump if he would record a promo for their show. And he did:
"Mr. President what I'm about to do right now if it's not classy just say 'Burgess I can't do that' but if we could have you say "this is Donald Trump, president of the United States and you're listening to the Rick and Bubba Show" but if you don't think you should do that we understand."

"I should definitely not do it but I will do it," Trump responded.

The president then said "This is Donald Trump, President of the United States. I love the state of Alabama and you're listening to the "Rick and Bubba Show," and enjoy it and if they ever switch allegiance, please do not run this whatever it is."
There's video available.
posted by zachlipton at 12:33 PM on September 25 [32 favorites]


Bill Woodruff of the American Cancer Society. Notes how his mother got cancer treatment, and then lived with a pre-existing condition. Until 2010, cancer survivors had to be lucky to keep care--said they were priced out of individual market. Says they could be subject to benefits caps.

Notes that the current system is flawed but can be fixed. Notes the problem is that there is a patchwork of how states handle it. Notes that G-C would make discretionary essential health benefit, preventative services, subject people to benefits caps. Says that we need a national standard for state solutions, so that people can really get the care they need.

Notes the timeline in G-C is ridiculous. Notes that ACS is worried for people who will lose their insurance. Says insurers could be allowed to offer plans that do not cover treatment. Notes that without preventative coverage--cancer will discovered later, treatment more expensive, more medical bankruptcies, and more premature death.

Says he wants real, bipartisan solutions that actually improve healthcare.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:34 PM on September 25 [31 favorites]


I've also been working out the logic (ha) behind supporting people like Kim Davis for "religious freedom" -- at their jobs -- but crying that people exercising free speech "at their job" should be fired.

The difference in this case is in job descriptions. Kim Davis' entire job [virtually] is issuing marriage certificates in accordance with state and federal law. Unlawfully refusing to issue a marriage certificate to a gay couple, being an inherent job duty, isn't something that Davis can get out of. She's free to find another job that won't violate her religious views. Standing or not for the anthem isn't in a football player's contract, plus many of them have their employer's explicit support now.
posted by donatella at 12:35 PM on September 25 [27 favorites]


Worth pointing out again that this bill completely eliminates all block grants for healthcare after 2026. Not one dime. So what do you think happens to millions of people who lose their insurance then. Do we get to fight once again to save the hostages as Republican hold out for another tax cut for the rich?

Note that the 2026 cut off is a cynical parliamentary ploy to improve the scoring for their tax cut bill which is next on their agenda.
posted by JackFlash at 12:38 PM on September 25 [19 favorites]


There once was a man from....ah, fuck it
Tell that fat clown to suck it
The solution's in reach
Vote to impeach
Before he burns it all down and chucks it.

dunno. the incoherent rage suddenly sought an outlet. sorry.
posted by Fezboy! at 12:42 PM on September 25 [80 favorites]


Wyden is trying to get Cassidy to give a yes/no answer to the question of whether all the doctor/hospital/patient groups are wrong that the bill doesn't protect people with pre-existing conditions. He keeps dodging.

Hatch is now interrupting to say his colleague should be treated with "great respect."
posted by zachlipton at 12:42 PM on September 25 [19 favorites]


Apropos of nothing, a guy I went to college with liked to write non sequitur limericks. For example,
There once was a man from New York
I do not like to eat pork
Grand Coulee Dam
South Vietnam
Babies delivered by fork
posted by plinth at 12:44 PM on September 25 [47 favorites]


Hatch is starting questions. Getting Cassidy to explain text. Cassidy tries to justify the bill with "equity" and tries to play it off as if they are doing it at an expense to non-expansion states. Tries to redistribute blue state funds to red ones.

Hatch asks Smith how the Federal Government can preserve Medicaid and expand individual coverage.

Wyden up. Wyden notes 27,000 people commented on the G-C bill. Gets them entered into the record. Wyden says we should work on a bipartisan solutions--the CHIP bill and the Murray/Alexander negotions. Calls the process "an abomination", notes that there are no objective data on the effects of the bill.

Says to Cassidy that the healthcare industry is thinks its a disaster. Asks for a yes/no on whether Cassidy believe that doctors and patients are wrong about not wanting this bill. Cassidy won't give a yes/no, and notes that the revised bill would allow states to charge based on medical status.

Hatch interrupts Wyden as though Cassidy isn't sitting their smirking and fucking Wyden around on the answer. Saying Wyden needs to respect Cassidy more. What horseshit.

Wyden asks Woodruff about how it will protects cancer patients. Woodruff says it wouldn't and would make patient protections optional. Says ACA created a national standard for what is adequate and affordable for insurance.

Wyden back on Cassidy on the multiple bills that have been published in the last two weeks. There have been 5 versions. Wants to know if the latest bill is the actual bill the Senate will vote on. Wyden is furious. He asks him for a yes or no answers. Cassidy hopes this will be the last version, but Cassidy is a liar. Wyden objects to the repeated revisions.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:45 PM on September 25 [42 favorites]


Regarding the flag kerfuffle, conservatives have an eons old thing about elevating symbols above the things the symbols represent (there's a whole thing I've read but can't find about how Evangelical Christianity is a religion about Christ, not the religion of Christ and how elevating Jesus above his message is the source of at least some of their nonsense). This is one way of controlling people. Get them enraged about an insult to a symbol while simultaneously destroying or altering the things that symbol stands for.

I've long thought that about the flag. My grandma always argued that people who "disrespect" the flag should be charged with treason and executed, because what a great American value that sentiment is.

But yeah, that also nails perfectly the hypocrisy of the toxic forms of Christianity. As well as the willingness to "support" the troops with bumper stickers and platitudes while providing inadequate healthcare to veterans or simply letting them go homeless, not to mention sending them into unnecessary wars in the first place.
posted by Foosnark at 12:49 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


Grassley is up. Claiming that ACA isn't working in IA. Asks for figures on spending in IA--is an increase. Trying to conflate increase on health costs and growth of governmental spending. What bullshit. Grassley stumbling a lot. Trying to play off the ACA as only a give away to insurance companies, without talking about the positive affects of covering more people.

Asks Mann whether Medicaid is sustainable at current rate. She notes that taking away funding will make costs grow. Miller gets the same questions--says needs the cost of care needs to be discussed.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:50 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


There once was man out of evens.
It me. I'm the one out of evens.
I'm all out of evens.
I'm all out of evens.
I'm all out of all of my evens.
posted by emelenjr at 12:52 PM on September 25 [121 favorites]


You folks who are actually watching this shitshow and liveblogging it here for the rest of us are doing the Lord's work. Just wanted to say it. Thank you.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:52 PM on September 25 [73 favorites]


Sen. Stabenow is up. Says that MI is saving money because fewer people are going to the ER without insurance. Says that minimum wage workers are getting covered and MI has saved nearly 500M dollars because people get earlier care.

Says that S&P says that the bill will cost 588k jobs in the next year.

Notes that the bill is a block grant. Says that in 10 years, to continue the block grant would cost is 190B. Notes that the other costs related to HHS are 164B. Notes that MI gets 140B dollars in cuts when the state budget is 56B in 2018. Notes that the bill will gut coverage for people in nursing homes.

Says that the bill will gut maternity care, with the essential benefits eliminated by G-C. Notes G-C would take us back to the days only 4% of plans covered maternity care! Prior to ACA then it would be a pre-existing condition.

Asks Miller about maternity care market before it was in the EHB. Before ACA, women in individual market did not have option to chose plan with maternity coverage. Says that EHB are truly essential and wonders how one can pick even one to eliminate. Notes that without maternity coverage, women will pay tens of thousands of dollars for childbirth and see more medical bankruptcies.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 12:57 PM on September 25 [40 favorites]


580k jobs in one year doesn't pass the laugh test for me.
posted by Justinian at 12:59 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Yeah, googling suggests the 580k jobs estimate was through 2027. Senators, make sure you have your figures correct.
posted by Justinian at 1:02 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


What do you want to bet that if asked, the kneeling-outraged will say that those Christians don't need to lose their jobs and aren't disrespecting the military?

Well the first link in the search results leads to a peace church website with many recognizable Anabaptist and pacifist contributors.

By their nature, these groups don't respect the military, and governments don't tend to like them. In fact, governments hate pacifists as much as MeFi does - but governments also have to keep an eye on subversives, so they can't afford to be completely mindless about who these people are and how they operate.
posted by tel3path at 1:02 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Pat Roberts (R-KS) is up. Whining about how the ACA 'failed', when his disgusting governor Sam Brownback has not expanded Medicaid coverage. Notes Sanders' Medicare for all. Says he is continuing to review G-C. Says he thinks it is better than Medicare for all. Asking a question that suggests slowing rate of federal compensation for healthcare, even if it does not adequately fund healthcare, is somehow not a cut.

Asking questions how Kansas will benefit from G-C's attempt to steal money from Democratic states. Says 26 year olds will be allowed to stay. Cassidy trying to say that governors want to take care of their states, except that they won't currently expand Medicaid, so there is no reason to believe that they will take care of their people. It's disgusting.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:02 PM on September 25 [12 favorites]


I find America's obsessive hero-worship of The!! Troops!! really bizarre and cult-like. They're doing a job. They chose to do that job. There are lots of dangerous jobs in the world, and lots which do WAY more good. Why does this one get elevated to saint-hood?
posted by Cheerwell Maker at 1:02 PM on September 25 [64 favorites]


Senators, make sure you have your figures correct.

If Kimmel can do it, so can you.
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:03 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Why does this one get elevated to saint-hood?

Mostly male, leans harder right than the public.
posted by Etrigan at 1:04 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


I find America's obsessive hero-worship of The!! Troops!! really bizarre and cult-like.

It's also deeply repugnant to the original values of the country, which had only a small standing army, until it was transformed into the permanent National Security State after WWII.
posted by thelonius at 1:05 PM on September 25 [23 favorites]


"I should definitely not do it but I will do it," Trump responded.

Yeah, that about sums it up.
posted by jedicus at 1:05 PM on September 25 [44 favorites]


Why does this one get elevated to saint-hood?

Because, as the whole NFL thing illustrates, powerful people can shape opinion by invoking the troops as the reason people should do what they want them to do.
posted by Rykey at 1:07 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]




"They" meaning powerful people, I mean.
posted by Rykey at 1:07 PM on September 25


I find America's obsessive hero-worship of The!! Troops!! really bizarre and cult-like.

It's also, to me, strongly reminiscent of the romanticising of the military in Europe during the years prior to WWI. I worry a lot about that.
posted by Quindar Beep at 1:07 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


Carver noting how there 97 hearings, 130 consider amendments. Notes how the CBO had a score and that the ACA saved hundreds of billions of dollars under that amendment. Senate spent 25 days on healthcare. Says 67 republican amendments were accepted. Noting that Murray and Alexander have had 4 days of hearings--said that there were bipartisan round tables before each. Notes that the process has been garbage. Has noted how G-C has united over 400 HC orgs in opposition. Says that he hasn't seen such a wide coalition. Notes that Obamacare came mostly from the Heritage Foundation. Noted that Republicans John Chafee, Orrin Hatch, and Charles Grassley sponsored the original ACA bill in the early 90s.

Asks Miller for some cures of the ACA's problems. Says that the individual market is where the problem. Says that for people not getting financial assistance is the issue. Says we need effective mandate, get more young people into the pool, reduce cost of care, and continuing cost-sharing subsidies.

Carver back talking about Romneycare in MA. Says 98% of people covered, with premium increases in the range of 4%. Says that there are bipartisan solutions to the problems of ACA.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:08 PM on September 25 [34 favorites]


Says that the individual market is where the problem. Says that for people not getting financial assistance is the issue.

Hey, that's me. Yeah, it's... not great. Right now I'm paying something like 7k a year. For one person.
posted by Justinian at 1:10 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


What do you want to bet that if asked, the kneeling-outraged will say that those Christians don't need to lose their jobs and aren't disrespecting the military?

Oh, oh, I've had that conversation. Turns out those people aren't real Christians.

(I know, I know, I was hoping for something a little less predictable, too.)
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:10 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


Hatch is now interrupting to say his colleague should be treated with "great respect."

One hundred dollars to the reelection fund of the senator who responds to a bullshit call for comity with some variation on "as a fellow senator entitled to the same respect, the chair is out of line dismissing my observation that the honorable witness is a craven, lying fuckboy"
posted by jason_steakums at 1:11 PM on September 25 [15 favorites]


There it is folks, mark your BINGO card if you had 'someone cites a ghostly constituent that the ACA caused to lose the healthcare they had and/or the healthcare they had to buy under the ACA didn't cover them as good as the unicorn flavored, coated with rainbows insurance that was so cheap that they had before hand'.

Yes, I know these BINGO cards are huge, just stay the course.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:12 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


Robert Portman talking about "flexibility". Trying to cast it as the "states doing what they think is right". Says that addressing the cost of healthcare is best done by given the states "flexibility". Noting how the radical wing aren't happy that there are still taxes in G-C even though they can be directed to the states for bullshit, inadequate funding models. Portman telling stories of people who are claiming that they are getting worse coverage. I want to know how many people have called him saying this bill is shit. Asking Smith how block grants would help the three mentioned people who have seen increase.

Smith just spinning about how flexibility helps. Saying that it's good for states to be able to undermine the Essential Health Benefits, preexisting conditions, and life-time cap prohibition.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:14 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


Flexibility means nothing when the funding to implement any changes is drastically cut.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:17 PM on September 25 [6 favorites]


You folks who are actually watching this shitshow and liveblogging it here for the rest of us are doing the Lord's work. Just wanted to say it. Thank you.

So much this. MetaFilter is the only news source I can tolerate on bad days.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:17 PM on September 25 [41 favorites]


This Pew Research article on veterans notes that there are many fewer veterans as a percentage of the population than there were in the 60's through the 80's - in 1970, 45% (almost half) of men were veterans, whereas now 16% are.

Besides the fact that most veterans are men and many are politically center to right, the fact that the US now has no draft and there are fewer military veterans in the general population means that "the troops" are an abstraction to many people, not a reality. Many of the "Respect! Our! Troops!" people haven't served in the military, and don't have anyone in their family who has.

I don't like wars, and I don't like the idea of the draft, but I think the distancing of ordinary people from the reality of war and military service has been toxic for our society - it's sooooo easy to be rah-rah war and rah-rah troops when the closest you've come to real war or real military service is playing Call of Duty or LARPing.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:18 PM on September 25 [24 favorites]


Cardin gets objections from MD into the records. Now noting the process is garbage. Said there have been no markups, no chance for amendments, no CBO, but do know that tens of millions will lose coverage. Asking Miller about the issue with individual markets, where people aren't getting subsidies. Says its about 1% of people not getting subsidies. Miller says it's 1-2% in PA.

Cardin noting that tens of millions will lose coverage, just to address this 1-2% of people, instead of allocating more money for subsidies. Cardin notes that there are two ways to manage the copping under the G-C plan--eliminates manadate, eliminate services. Miller basically confirms. Cardin notes that to manage the cap, states will have to cut people off the roles. Asks Miller whether G-C will no longer protect people with congenital conditions. Notes how ACA enabled more people to get addiction and mental healthcare and G-C would gut that. Cardin notes how G-C does not specifically actually address the individual market.

Cardin notes how managing to caps will fuck up cancer treatments for everyone. Woodruff confirms.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:20 PM on September 25 [33 favorites]


Another thing that infuriates me about the kneeing protests during football games is how this situation would play out if the kneeler were that irritating twit Tim Tebow.

We thought it might look a little something... like this. Or maybe this.
posted by Naberius at 1:20 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


I honestly don't understand how Graham-Cassidy's block grants are supposed to be constitutional when ACA's forced Medicaid expansion wasn't. That's the precedent set in 2010. The federal government can't force the states to change their Medicaid programs. Expansion states are just going to refuse to change, right?
posted by zrail at 1:25 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


I'm pretty sure Mr. Scott just, after claiming that South Carolina has a large (30%? I forget already) percentage of folks that signed up for coverage that can't afford it, said that he applauded giving the flexibility of choice to states while citing Romneycare in Mass as a poster child for what a state can do given flexibility.

I guess he didn't notice the tiny discrepancy in median income between his state and theirs. I'll save you a click and say one state is number 8 in the country and number 44, you can guess which is which.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:26 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Tim Scott up now. Spinning more bullshit contextless talking points about how the situation in SC is the ACA's fault, rather than the Republicans in charge of the state who decided not to use the program as passed. Scott is trying to say that the ACA isn't an option for many people, even those the corrupt, racist governors from his party have largely chose not to take care of their people by expanding Medicaid. It's totally appalling intellectual dishonest--not just limited to Senator Scott, btw, but every Republican member of the committee.

Smith now going on about how there is no national healthcare market--trying to distract from how the ACA creates national standards for what insurance is. Scott asking about how G-C helps with opioid issues. Cassidy says states can use the money for whatever the states for opioids, without regard for what actually works.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:27 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


Many of the "Respect! Our! Troops!" people haven't served in the military, and don't have anyone in their family who has.

It is 100% a Get Out of Arguing Free card. If I have to hear about one more hypothetical homeless vet from someone who never a day in their life has done jack or shit for homeless vets, I'm going to... I don't even know what I'm going to do but it's not going to be pretty. It has gotten way out of control. It was bad enough when it was just "respect our troops!" as a way of shutting down arguments about the validity of the War on Terrah, but now "veterans" are getting used as a reason why we can't help literally anyone else. We can't have better public schools until veterans. We can't have healthcare until veterans. We can't have social services until veterans. We can't keep the population of Puerto Rico from literally actually dying until veterans.

Can we call it Reducto ad Veteranus or something?
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:28 PM on September 25 [45 favorites]


Oh, oh, I've had that conversation. Turns out those people aren't real Christians.

It still seems like it might be worth getting people to say that in public. Perhaps it would help Evan McMullin move Utah next time, to make it more clear that the wrong kinds of Christians are under threat, along with the wrong/non-cis-het-able-white kinds of Americans.
posted by XMLicious at 1:29 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Like hell they are. There are PLENTY of Antifa nerds.

#notallnerds

Still in the wake of Silicon Valley execs claiming women have too much power in Tech, I have to wonder: in the classic conflict between the nerds and jocks, maybe the nerds deserved to be trashcanned?
posted by happyroach at 1:32 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


Benet notes how Edmund Burke would be spinning in his grave because of the joke that this process has been. Asks for Miller to confirm that there has been no bipartisan solution. Notes that only 7% are on individual market and that less are without subsidies. He notes that he can only conclude that the bill is only about keeping a campaign promise. Says that there was a bipartisan consensus and that the ACA was not a Bolshevik take over of the insurance market. Miller says that the bill will create chaos all over the insurance market.

Says that his constituent that people are dissatisfied with the HC system, because they know they have to make choices that no one in the industrialized world. He's furious that the Senate won't take any bipartisan course of action, but rather stripping hard earned consumer protections and kicking poor people off their insurance.

Notes that now is the time to fix the problem, not fuck it up royal like G-C would.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:33 PM on September 25 [16 favorites]


Speaking of NASCAR, here's Dale Earnhardt Jr's official statement in exactly 139 characters:

All Americans R granted rights 2 peaceful protests
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable-JFK

posted by philip-random at 1:35 PM on September 25 [28 favorites]


Puerto Rico is Trump's Katrina.
posted by yoga at 1:36 PM on September 25 [15 favorites]


That's the precedent set in 2010

If only. NFIB v. Sebilius held the Medicaid expansion provision of the ACA violates the Constitution by threatening states with the loss of their existing Medicaid funding if they decline to comply with the expansion. The Court made up the new doctrine that the federal government can't force states to spend more state money by threatening to take away existing federal money if they don't. Medicaid expansion still requires some state spending increase after 3 years, even though it's still a great deal since the federal government still pays 90%. That's not really what Graham-Cassidy-Heller would be doing, they're changing the terms of the existing programs by drastically reducing the federal spending allotted, but not "coercing" the states to spend more in contribution. You know, unless states want to keep up the same level of benefits today, I guess.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:37 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


What a weird world where I find myself liking Lebron James, the mega-gifted jock who I resent with the fire of a thousand dunks I have never been able to make.
posted by srboisvert at 1:38 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]


Why does this one get elevated to saint-hood?

Because, as the whole NFL thing illustrates, powerful people can shape opinion by invoking the troops as the reason people should do what they want them to do.



You remember how grade school and junior high and high school always had those "pep rallies" to fire up the students to support their home sports team against the opposing schools' teams? You remember how martial and violent some of the chants and imagery was?

I still remember the mob chanting and the drums. I still remember posters hung in the school hallways with "Murder Mundy's Mill!", and "Vanquish the Vikings!" and "Slaughter the Saints!" Or the student articles in the school newspaper about how "[Home School] Slams Central, 35-3", or "[Home School] Razes Riverdale, 21-0" etc.

I cringed at those pep rallies, because I realized even by the time I was 11 that they were part of an insidiously manipulative conditioning, along with the forced Pledge of Allegiance, and the forced "Yes Sir" and "No Sir" children had to say to their parents, and the attitude in church that would not brook asking a Sunday School teacher to even explain their reasoning (hint: grew up in the South).

Conditioned with the idea that we were to buckle to authority, and to automatically hate anyone authority told us to hate, and to cheer violence against them, and hold up those who commit that violence as our heroes. It doesn't matter if they are doing that violence for a good reason or not. Indeed, there is no "reason" needed for why you learn to hate the school five miles away, other than "they are not us" and "those in authority said so."

Calling your worship for the troops into question basically is the residual junior-high mentality of asking if you have school spirit. Whether you are sincerely committed to Sparkle Motion. The social pressures are pretty much the same, and still much based upon an arbitrarily established conflict.

People never really grow out of who they were when they were 13. They just learn to hide it better in polite society. Or, in Trump's case, he never had to learn to hide it better in polite society, because he was always insulated from the consequences of his misbehavior by his family's wealth. And now he has millions of people who cheer him on, so why should he change?
posted by darkstar at 1:39 PM on September 25 [43 favorites]


Still in the wake of Silicon Valley execs claiming women have too much power in Tech, I have to wonder: in the classic conflict between the nerds and jocks, maybe the nerds deserved to be trashcanned?

Except for how a lot of the nerds are and always were themselves women? Many of us who are in tech now and trying to get respect for being in tech now were also, as teenagers, treated badly for being nerds and geeks. "Nerds" is not a group that ever only included men and continuing to discuss them as a group that only includes men does not in any fashion help women in tech.
posted by Sequence at 1:40 PM on September 25 [54 favorites]


Bob Casey from PA is up. He's had many letters from constituents opposed to the bill. Noting how everyone knows that they process is not appropriate for the gravity of the bill. Advocates for the bipartisan bill of Murray/Alexander. Notes that the processes for the ACA and G-C are completely incomparable. Says the Senate could move in that direction, but notes that the reconciliation deadline is coming up to pass such partisan legislation.

Does not understand Republican obsession with hating on Medicaid. He does not understand it. He's pissed because he wants to protect the people who use it. He does not understand why it's a problem for 11M people to get healthcare through Medicaid. Says that everyone benefits when we have healthcare.

Brings up opioid situation in rural PA. People there say "Thank god for the Medicaid expansion!" because they can get treatment through it. Does not get obsession with killing the expansions. Asking Miller whether she found evidence of stability proposals from health committee in G-C. She says that the 2 year reinsurance program is there, but that on its own is not enough. Asks her to explain how the bill would affect PA. She says the cuts would devastate PA. 15B-30B dollars will be cut from HC budget.

Casey has been very good on this issue, in how he talks about it. Chair is whining about how people are going over on time.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:40 PM on September 25 [47 favorites]


I'm not sure the Republican Senators really want to actually pass this monstrosity of a bill. Yeah they want to put in a good show but plenty of them will actually be happy having 3 of the Senators vote against this bill because it's frankly radioactive.

Alaska and Arizona will actually lose money relative to the current models (even before block grants expire) so I can't imagine Murkowski will be stupid enough to sign on. Nevada somehow magically stays funding neutral but Heller is fucked either way. Collins wants to run for Governor and she knows voting for this is the kiss of death.

And then you have Paul and Lee saying that this doesn't go far enough the other way in terms of making the US a libertarian paradise.
posted by vuron at 1:41 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


U Bum is going down in history, people
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:41 PM on September 25 [51 favorites]


"Let's invite even Republican governors in here to comment on it!!"

Touche. Well played.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:45 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]


Serious question ( maybe it's been asked) : Could Twitter close Trump's account citing that he violated rules when he threatened to blow up NK? I think Milo Y. was banned for less.
If he lost Twitter he'd lose his megaphone to his suckers.
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:46 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Warner calls the bill the most "radical, audacious change in our healthcare system that we've ever addressed". He notes how this bill has morphed into a "dramatic deconstruction" of a program that has been in place for 60 years. Notes the American Enterprise Institute has said the most important piece of legislation in years is being pushed through Congress without time for comment. Notes that S&P suggests that 580k would be lost and 240B dollars of economic activities. Says if this is a good idea, it would be a good idea after a thorough review through regular order 3 months from now. Calls this a "trumped up process to get a political scalp" [EC -- note ew racist gross].

Says that the sponsors have never been governors so they don't understand what they are asking. Says its absurd that a governor could revamp a whole state's healthcare system is risible. Says it's clearly designed by someone who's never run a state. Notes that the per capita cap and block grant would be the largest transfer of risk from the federal government to the states ever.

Warner isn't asking questions, but he notes that the current process is a travesty. He says that we need to go for bipartisan process.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:46 PM on September 25 [31 favorites]


U Bum is going down in history, people

Good news for the University of Bumstead, I suppose.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:47 PM on September 25 [12 favorites]


Could Twitter close Trump's account citing that he violated rules when he threatened to blow up a nation?

Can they? Yes. Should they? Yes. Will they? No.
posted by Justinian at 1:47 PM on September 25 [29 favorites]


Puerto Rico is Trump's Katrina.

It should be, but the New York Times and the Washington Post are out to lunch. Seems they are busy covering the NFL and NASCAR. Trump gets a pass while three million "Americans" are left in the dark.
posted by JackFlash at 1:48 PM on September 25 [42 favorites]


Someone with a Twitter here needs to tweet at Lin-Manuel Miranda that his shot at "DJT doesn't care about Puerto Ricans" has arrived.

I'd say credit me but I'm sure someone funnier has done this already.
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:48 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


Can they? Yes. Should they? Yes. Will they? No.

Why just because it's good for Twitter's business to have him verbally vomiting all the time? Twitter could get the Nobel Peace Prize for this one act!!!!
I bet with enough support people could twist Twitter's arm into doing this.
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:49 PM on September 25


I think Milo Y. was banned for less.
When Milo or his followers make death threats, it's illegal. An elected head of state threatening to destroy a country isn't, is it?
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 1:51 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Maria Cantwell up. Great statement on funding disaster relief for Puerto Rico. Noting how the notion of "flexiblity" is garbage. Says bill tries to address the individual market, but in actual is about killing Medicare. She talked about the bill messes with good ways to expand coverage and lower costs by striking them out of law or making them optional.

She notes how Republicans thinks the only way to reduce Medicaid cost is to cut people off. Shows how all the non-expansion states are the ones who have had massive shutdowns of rural hospitals.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:51 PM on September 25 [31 favorites]



When Milo or his followers make death threats, it's illegal. An elected head of state threatening to destroy a country isn't, is it

I doubt it makes that distinction in the Twitter user terms. It probably says threats in general. Take his Twitter!!!!
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:52 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


One thing I can't quite wrap my head around is how gutting medicaid is going to go over with seniors when a large number of seniors (and their families) depend on medicaid to cover nursing homes and other end-of-life issues.

This includes relatively well to do seniors who do all sorts of estate planning maneuvers to divest themselves of assets because end-of-life care will basically chew through hundreds of thousands of dollars in short order.
posted by vuron at 1:52 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


Twitter is run by Nazis who approve of everything Trump says and more, so why would they do something like that.
posted by dilaudid at 1:53 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Local protests occasionally make a stop in front of Twitter's headquarters (usually on weekends though) to ask that they ban Trump in addition to their other grievances.
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Twitter is run by Nazis who approve of everything Trump says and more, so why would they do something like that.

Oh Nazis? I dont know the people who run Twitter.
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:55 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


I doubt it makes that distinction in the Twitter user terms.

You're right, I was being lazy. Their rules state:
Violent threats (direct or indirect): You may not make threats of violence or promote violence, including threatening or promoting terrorism.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 1:56 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


You're right, I was being lazy. Their rules state:
Violent threats (direct or indirect): You may not make threats of violence or promote violence, including threatening or promoting terrorism.


Exactly, I was just about to copy that same text. So... that qualifies. Take his fucking Twitter away!!!!
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:57 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Sherrod Brown enters letters opposing the plan into the record. He can rebut Portman's horseshit from earlier. Notes that there's been a tonne of dishonest opposition to the ACA. Notes that 30k people who aren't getting ACA coverage (in LA I think)--Brown explains how it's the fault of the Republican governor who did not expand the program.

Asks for Cassidy to answer yes or no on whether the bill specifically include funding for opioid treatment funding. Cassidy does not answer with a yes or no, but says it's 'flexibility' that would allow states to cover it. Brown interprets the answer as No.

Brown noting how this bill is not being analyzed and that the process is crap. Notes how sheriffs are for opiod treatment and how constituents are getting treatment because of Medicaid. Says everyone knows that G-C will not cover opioid treatment. Mann says that funding cuts will result in no funding for opioid treatment because it will dry up. Miller says that it is likely more people will die of opioid related causes, because of the funding slashing. Notes that prior to ACA addiction was not covered in many plans.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 1:58 PM on September 25 [28 favorites]



It still seems like it might be worth getting people to say that in public. Perhaps it would help Evan McMullin move Utah next time, to make it more clear that the wrong kinds of Christians are under threat, along with the wrong/non-cis-het-white kinds of Americans.


No, these - the kind that come up first in the search results linked above - are the kinds of Christians that have always been under threat and have always known it. I must also emphasize that they are *pacifists* as well as Christians, and it's perfectly clear that that makes them immoral at best and Nazi sympathizers at worst in the eyes of J. Random Mefite.

So whether it will work to incite the government to focus its rage on these wrong kinds of Christian, it depends what your goal is. If you want to get Trump-voting Evangelicals to wake up, pitting them against peace churches isn't going to change the status quo at all. If you want peace churches, as the enemy, to come to harm via Trump and his supporters, that has a much better chance of working. They don't have the political power of Mormons in Utah, who also are not generally pacifists.
posted by tel3path at 1:58 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


...but instead multinationals used the repatriated funds to pay dividends to shareholders and buy back their stock.

There is an important finance concept at work here. The simplified model of how firms determine what new projects to spend capital on basically has them compare the rate of return on that project to what the firm feels is it's expected rate of return. Gather up all the projects you want to fund this year and figure out what each ROI is. Start with the highest ROI and work your way down until you're either out of capital or the ROIs are lower than the expected ROI for your firm. If you have more capital that you have favorable projects, the most productive thing you can do with it is return it to your investors. There are basically two methods to accomplish that, dividends (which tend to be very steady and even for some kind of weird reasons) and stock buy-backs.

Now, that concept assumes all other things being equal. That is, hiring 500 more sales people carries the same amount of risk as investing the same funds in, say, a new data-center. And there are plenty of other confounding factors and quantitative factors that can't really be built into model of a project's present value. There are a lot of complicating factors but it's basically true that if a company had something productive to do with foreign funds, they very likely would have been doing something with those funds already.

I have a hard time believing there are very many firms that have more profitable projects than they have capital for domestically but excess capital off-shore and especially that it's a high corporate tax rate that's keeping them from repatriating the funds and putting it to work.

If the GOP gets what they want, the sequence will probably be:
1. US Companies repatriate funds at special low rate
2. US Companies greatly increase the rate of stock-buy-backs
3. US Billionaires, with a fresh tax cut, will be the ones selling off their stocks for the companies to buy back (not at the individual level mind you, but it's the aggregate effect) as this is likely the smartest way to maximize their returns
4. The massive sell-off begins to create a buyer's market, stock prices start to fall.
5. The downward trend starts to set off more sales (especially limit orders as they're automatic) causing the trend to accelerate
6. Stock-market crashes as hard as it's ever crashed
7. I don't know what comes next and I really don't want to find out.
8. US Billionaires invest in a heavily depressed stock-market buying back their portfolios at a pittance compared to what it sold at while they flocked to cash and rode out the storm (I consider this the worst acceptable outcome)

I have a degree in Finance and I don't often get to use that knowledge in job. Mostly it comes in handy to get me LIVID at the "pro business" GOP as they twist that knowledge to tell lies.

GOP Rep: Blah blah blah economic concept
Me: NO YOU DAMN MORON THAT'S NOT HOW THAT WORKS AND I KNOW YOU KNOW THAT!
posted by VTX at 1:59 PM on September 25 [67 favorites]


He said this at the UN GA. Those aren't twitter followers. Those are the leaders of the world.
posted by adept256 at 2:01 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Mr. Smith (just now): Phrasing/Word salad. But we're awesome.
posted by RolandOfEld at 2:01 PM on September 25


He said this at the UN GA. Those aren't twitter followers. Those are the leaders of the world.

NO, he said it on Twitter too.
posted by Liquidwolf at 2:02 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


including threatening or promoting terrorism.

Remember like a month ago when he tweeted that people should be murdered with bullets dipped in pig's blood in order to terrorize muslims?

Twitter is not going to give him the boot until one of his tweets is indisputably and obviously linked to a specific murder, and maybe not even then. I'm afraid that public pressure will only have a chance to move them after something equivalent to him having tweeted "someone should drive a Dodge Challenger into Antifa" the day before Charlottesville.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:03 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


I'd hope the UN would be better than fucking twitter at chastising such threats.
posted by adept256 at 2:06 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


LMM has taken to twitter to beg @therealdonaldtrump to do something before many lives are lost. I bet he wishes he could tear the man apart, but I also bet he's wary of reminding Trump that a PR lad called DJT a POS on SNL.
posted by angrycat at 2:08 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


Isakson gets a simple yes answer upon request from Cassidy.

Asks Miller about declines in coverage providers. Miller notes that 5 carriers exist in PA, and that they said prior to the instability in Washington, the markets were stabilizing. Smith is talking about AR's situation--3 carriers. Wants to attract more with 'competition'. Says they are getting providers to accept risk (!!! -- that doesn't exactly seem great...). Claims they aren't just cutting benefits and mandated conditions.

He asks Cassidy about Cassidy-Collins. Trying to polish Cassidy's bipartisan bona fides, even though he's trying to screw people.

McCaskill is going through S&P report. Says that increased flexibility comes with less federal dollars. Creates additional fiscal burdens on states. Creates more instability in insurance markets. AEI says G-C will increase instability and needs to move slower with much better analysis. She notes that the bill changed between the time she boarded a flight and time she got to DC. She notes that the states don't have to get a waiver but provide a description of what they will do. She asks Cassidy for definition affordable or adequate, Cassidy gives shit answer citing dictionary definitions. Incredibly disrespectful to Senator McCaskill.

She's noting how the governor has been fucking over her state by not accepting the expansion. A direct challenge to the notion that governors will take care of their people. She is noting how in MO they are cutting Medicaid providers right now without the expansion.

Cassidy is incoherent. Basically saying that people can be enrolled in insurance automatically if the state's decide, even if that means getting automatically enrolled upon a catastrophic injury or illness. He did not how this bill would actually pay for said catastrophic coverage.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 2:11 PM on September 25 [36 favorites]


I have a hard time believing there are very many firms that have more profitable projects than they have capital for domestically but excess capital off-shore and especially that it's a high corporate tax rate that's keeping them from repatriating the funds and putting it to work.

You don't have to speculate. It is objectively true. Look at Apple who borrowed billions using their off-shore money as collateral and what did they do with it? Did they use it to fund new projects? No they used it to fund new dividends and stock buybacks.

Which is exactly what they would do if allowed to repatriate their off-shore capital. Because they are already doing exactly that with the tax avoidance loophole of borrowing against that capital (which is tax deductible I might note).
posted by JackFlash at 2:12 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]


basically, the way i see it, twitter is not going to give trump a boot because of one or more of these reasons:

(a) jack and biz support his views
(b) jack and biz need the users and views
(c) jack and biz don't want the drama of kicking him off

none of which really allow jack and biz to come off looking good, but i guess they are consoling themselves with the giant piles of cash they made by giving literal nazis a platform to spew their hate and a tyrant a way to maybe start a nuclear war
posted by entropicamericana at 2:12 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


I hate Toomey. Whining how people question their horrifying motives for all this. I need to take a break on these comments.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 2:15 PM on September 25 [15 favorites]


catastrophic injury or illness

I really hate this idea that if you provide people with coverage for "catastrophic injury or illness" that's good enough. As if people with congenital or chronic conditions just don't exist.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:16 PM on September 25 [46 favorites]


I sure hope the guy who rode to power on a series of speeches about what a miserable shit hole this country is comes back on teevee to lecture me about patriotism.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:18 PM on September 25 [28 favorites]


I really hope that Santorum and Toomey believe in Hell; I don't, but I would love these guys to have a few moments of deathbed epiphany and certainty that they're headed there.
posted by angrycat at 2:21 PM on September 25 [19 favorites]


Remember how Trump tweeted over the weekend how Iran tested a ballistic missile? No less a source than Fox News (sigh) cites US officials as saying the test was fake, that they released a video of a failed launch from January.

Imagine having a multi-billion dollar system and thousands of people devoted to giving you information, to the point they risk their lives to do so, and you choose to rely entirely on cable news.
posted by zachlipton at 2:22 PM on September 25 [72 favorites]


Elijah Cummings wants to open an investigation into Kushner's email usage.
posted by PenDevil at 2:25 PM on September 25 [36 favorites]


Among everything in Graham-Cassidy-Heller-Johnson-Santorum, the most incredible is the last section in the bill text is the last version of the bill.

Sen. McCaskill is right now calling out Cassidy for the lack of a definition of "adequate and affordable" coverage of pre-existing conditions that G-C requires that States must include "a description of" when applying for the block grant (p.8).

If approved, that application is then "deemed to be approved by the Administrator for that year and each subsequent year through December 31, 2026." (p.12).

Which is great, because the very last section of the bill (sec. 204) allows states to renegotiate any promises and throw them out the window (*takes a breath*):

"For any of calendar years 2020 through 2026 for which a State receives funds [...]with respect to health insurance coverage [...] the State may establish rules [... and] if any such rules conflict [...,] the State shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of the conflicting provision. (p.143)

And then it explicit defines what regulations can be thrown out: coverage for women, discrimination based on age, rating area. The Incidental Economist has a good commentary.

Three pages tacked onto the end of a 146-page bill that quietly erase any question that this bill isn't a giveaway to insurance companies or in any way designed to provide health care.
posted by Theiform at 2:25 PM on September 25 [44 favorites]


governments hate pacifists as much as MeFi does

Um wut
posted by aspersioncast at 2:29 PM on September 25 [29 favorites]


This is your regularly scheduled reminder that, as this farce of a hearing goes on, Congress is about to miss the deadline to reauthorize CHIP, which is about to run out of money starting at the end of the month. That's the Children’s Health Insurance Program. It's an extremely popular program because it pays for HEALTH CARE FOR CHILDREN. And they're dong fuck all to fund it before states start to run out of money.
posted by zachlipton at 2:30 PM on September 25 [67 favorites]


Again, all of this makes way more sense if you think of the 2017 Republican Party as being populated by aspiring serial killers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:31 PM on September 25 [26 favorites]


twitter is not going to give trump a boot

I should hope not. His tweets -- and his inability to not tweet -- are a window on his shriveled soul. Over and over again, they show the world how petty and dim and vile Trump is. When they write a history of this presidency, those tweets are going to be exhibit A. No one in the future will believe this shit unless they see stuff like those tweets for themselves, all laid out chronologically in reaction to events.
posted by pracowity at 2:32 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]


I must also emphasize that they are *pacifists* as well as Christians, and it's perfectly clear that that makes them immoral at best and Nazi sympathizers at worst in the eyes of J. Random Mefite.
Citations needed.
posted by Nerd of the North at 2:35 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


Yeah, I don't know what this pacifism storyline is about, but I would request maybe start a new thread (or a MeTa) to discuss it? There's already about 16 things being juggled here.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:38 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


governments hate pacifists as much as MeFi does
Um wut
Citations needed.


This is a reference to the "Nazi punching is a moral duty" arguments and paens to the courage of antifa. Which are exactly the same arguments used to valorize the military, though both fans of the military and fans of antifa seem slow to recognize the similarity, sometimes.

(Explicitly: governments feel the same way about pacifist conscientious objectors as MeFi does about people who decry Nazi-punching.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:38 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


> Ivanka's email signature is "Get Outlook for iOS"

I don't know if zachlipton knows why this is such a stupid terrible thing, but I'm going to go scream into a pillow for a minute here and then come back and explain.


!



So for several years, many system administrators have actually blacklisted the Outlook app from their mail servers due to the security risk it represents. Instead of directly pulling email to your phone, the app actually passes it along to a third-party server that downloads the mail for you! I know Microsoft has tried to do better with the app, but as of this year UC San Diego (for example) was warning users about the app - It is important to assess your email security and privacy needs and understand the potential risks before downloading this product."

Two guess as to if anyone did any assessing over there, and I'll note that the linked screenshot of the signature shows an email from February, way before any of the updates mentioned in the UCSD notice.

Full disclosure: I haven't blocked the app in my environment, but 1) most employees here don't have access to their email credentials, and 2) I didn't get this job by blasting the email security practices of other people in the running for this position
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:38 PM on September 25 [70 favorites]


Puerto Rico is Trump's Katrina.

It should be, but the New York Times and the Washington Post are out to lunch. Seems they are busy covering the NFL and NASCAR. Trump gets a pass while three million "Americans" are left in the dark.
posted by JackFlash


I meant it is Trump's Katrina in the sense that people are literally dying and in need of basic living resources and like Bush, he isn't doing a fucking thing about it. Fuck NYT and WaPo. The situation in PR is all over the internet, it's not like traditional news sources matter.
posted by yoga at 2:38 PM on September 25 [26 favorites]


Katrina took some time to unfold and become perceived as a huge failure for W. I think Puerto Rico will follow the same pattern.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:41 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


This is a reference to the "Nazi punching is a moral duty" arguments and paens to the courage of antifa. Which are exactly the same arguments used to valorize the military, though both fans of the military and fans of antifa seem slow to recognize the similarity, sometimes.

Antifa are actually protecting vulnerable minorities from armed violence here in the US while the military act as the armed protectors of American capital and geopolitical interests against people of color in the global south?
posted by dhens at 2:42 PM on September 25 [31 favorites]


I mean, I respect both antifa and radical pacifists? (And fwiw, I personally know a fair number of radical Christian pacifists. There's a substantial Mennonite community where I live.) I can admire more than one way of living by one's ethical commitments.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 2:45 PM on September 25 [40 favorites]


"GOP Rep. Louie Gohmert on Monday urged Arizona to "recall" Sen. John McCain amid his recent brain cancer diagnosis, while criticizing his Republican colleague for going back on his 2016 campaign vow to repeal ObamaCare."
“Nothing inhibits recovery from cancer like stress. I think Arizona could help him, and us."

Aside from the fact that Gohmert is so dumb that he doesn't know that voters cannot recall a senator, I wonder what McCain thinks about the party he is so devoted to.
posted by JackFlash at 2:47 PM on September 25 [33 favorites]


Personally I lean pacifist but can see both sides of the argument. But to me, opposing the military in principle (as opposed to specific military actions) and supporting the antifa in principle (as opposed to specific actions) are not consistent positions. In principle -- they both do the same thing. I mean the military has been known to fight nazis too.

I don't feel like I entirely hold either one of those positions, partly because of the tension between them.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:48 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


As to respecting the military in regards to defending my rights... throughout my relatively long life there has not been one military action that was about defending my rights. There have been no foreign elements trying to take away my rights. There are people here in this country who want to take away my rights, but the military isn't going to stop them. In fact they may help them. For you youngsters here, there are some oldsters here who used to say:

Remember Kent State.
posted by njohnson23 at 2:50 PM on September 25 [106 favorites]


Gohmert is kind of the Platonic ideal of stupid, yeah.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:51 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


It could definitely be consistent. For example, if you didn't believe that the state controlling the military in question was legitimate, or deployed that military in the service of legitimate and human-rights-respecting aims.
posted by penduluum at 2:51 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]




throughout my relatively long life there has not been one military action that was about defending my rights. There have been no foreign elements trying to take away my rights. There are people here in this country who want to take away my rights, but the military isn't going to stop them. In fact they may help them.

This is exactly my biggest issue with military worship in the United States. "Freedom isn't free," etc. It makes no sense. It has never made sense to me. It is so disingenuous, a statement made in such bad faith, I can't believe more people don't question it.

And! It is not only not questioned but it's like a heresy to point out that our "freedoms" are not all that vast, actually, and it's been quite a long time since they were under threat from a foreign force.
posted by witchen at 2:54 PM on September 25 [15 favorites]


BREAKING: CBO score for Graham Cassidy expected "within minutes"

Relatedly, Sen Collins declined to ive her newest opinion of the bill before the score came out, and Hatch just said its "doubtful" that there will be a vote this week.

Some have speculatd that McConnell is just buying time to avoid handing out another big L before tomorrows AL election. . .
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:55 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


The partial CBO score is out

They can only say "millions fewer", not enough time for a specific number.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:57 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


and it's been quite a long time since they were under threat from a foreign force.
posted by witchen


With the exception of Russian election interference, though that is of a wholly different scope re: military defending freedom
posted by Golem XIV at 2:58 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Pacifists choosing not to punch nazis is laudable. Saying nobody should punch nazis is essentially defending nazis.
posted by rocket88 at 3:00 PM on September 25 [26 favorites]


Could we -not- have the punching Nazis discussion for the umpteenth time?
posted by Archelaus at 3:01 PM on September 25 [23 favorites]


CBOoooooooooooh no! score.

They basically say it saves at least as much off the budget as the AHCA (which is what they need for reconciliation), "millions" lose coverage, and it will take them weeks to do detailed analysis. They also think having states create new insurance systems by 2020 "would be hard," "difficult," and "challenging" which wins understatement of the day.
posted by zachlipton at 3:02 PM on September 25 [21 favorites]


[Agree, please leave the is-it-okay-to-celebrate-nazi-punching thing at "opinions remain divided" and just refer people to the last many times we've had this debate.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:05 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


MSNBC BREAKING: Susan Colins is a no on G-C.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:11 PM on September 25 [52 favorites]


Having watched and summarized a great deal of this hearing, I have a few points about it. I won't be able to do another round of questions because I have other things I need to do today.

Positive Aspects
  • The ADAPT protesters were amazing. True patriots putting their bodies and living up to the best ideals of our country. Some of them were forced from their wheelchairs and dragged out by police. It's sick that basically none of the Republicans will have their leaden hearts moved ADAPT's courage and conviction to do the right thing and peacefully protest for the human right of healthcare.
  • Senator Maize Hirono did amazing job in her opening statement. She clearly laid out the cruelty in Graham-Cassidy-Johnson-Heller and effectively repped for healthcare as a human right.
  • Senators McCaskill, Wyden, Bennet, Carver, Casey and Cardin really stood out to me as being thoughtful and asking tough questions.
  • Witnesses Miller, Mann, and Woodruff were superb in their clear enunciation of the successes of the ACA, the fixable problems in the ACA, and the atrocious cuts and effects that would come from Graham-Cassidy.
  • Major props to Maria Cantwell for calling attention to the situation in Puerto Rico. People are dying there, and they don't have fair or adequate representation in Congress. They money and assistance.
Negatives
  • The entire Republican side argument in favor of this bill of shit is rooted in extreme intellectual dishonesty.
  • No Republican would really, substantively address the elephant in the room--that their corrupt, racist, scheming Republican governors elected to allow their states to be sicker and pay more in insurance, rather than accept the Medicaid expansion.
  • Bill Cassidy is smug, smirking fuckwit who sat there the whole time with an enormous shit-eating grin on his face and a hate-on for people on Medicaid. He gave a yes/no answer to Isakson, but not to Wyden or McCasklll--I wonder why (not really).
  • Lindsey Graham's opening statement was unhinged and verging on incoherent.
  • Rick Santorum's invocation of welfare destruction as a positive makes my blood boil. The only thing that matters to people like him are how many people are on the program--not the quality of people's lives overall.
  • Republicans whine when people question their motives behind actions that kill people.
  • Republicans straight up lie in Congressional hearings. Those block grants will not actually end up being spent on healthcare.
  • Orrin Hatch telling people that "if your want a hearing, you'd better shut up" was disgusting. Hey asshole, you're a servant of US, not a ruler. The contempt for peaceful protest and the first amendment makes me want to scream scream scream.
  • Senators from parties referring to people in the opposing party as their "friends". I cannot understand this sentiment at all. It really steams me when Democrats, in particular, say that about people who vote to make me and many others second-class citizens, routinely vote to force women to give birth, and routinely vote to kill hundreds of thousands of people prematurely by denying them healthcare. Similarly, forced-birth Republicans who seem to basically buy into the 'baby-killer' rhetoric calling people who support reproductive freedom 'friends' make no sense either. How can either side actually be friends with people who hardly seem to share any of the most basic values? It's useful to have a working relationship but calling that a friendship seems like a joke in this particular context.
The contempt and hate of the poor that the Republican party shows routinely doesn't really surprise me anymore--not after 20 years of observing how much they hate me and the very best of this country. It does sicken me though.

Anyway, we can kill this bill--keep up the pressure on Murkowski, Collins, McCain, Paul, Cruz, and anyone making any noise about wavering or leaning towards no. They only have 5 days for a party line vote to force this lethal legislation through.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:13 PM on September 25 [107 favorites]


Susan Collins statement
posted by Room 641-A at 3:14 PM on September 25 [6 favorites]


Lee says he's undecided, but this draft "moves in the wrong direction."

Look for lots of people to flee as it's clear they don't have the votes, but they'd all swing back the moment it looks like the votes are there.
posted by zachlipton at 3:17 PM on September 25 [10 favorites]


Excommunicated Cardinal, exceptional job. Thank you.
Still listening to C-span. This last gasp is pathetic. It amazes me how people who are deeply affected by this bill are clueless about what is going on. It's not behind the scenes -- it's right here in front of them, if they pay attention. That is, if they can get past the "black is white, day is night, everything is fine" coming out of this session.
posted by free f_ cat at 3:19 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


Rob Portman of Ohio now stating that he is "still undecided", noting that the Ohio State legislature is balking at funding the state contribution at 10%, rather than the current 5% -- let alone taking on the whole responsibility.
posted by Theiform at 3:20 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]


Twitter has put out a thread explaining that they hold all accounts to the same rules, but they consider "newsworthiness" and "whether a Tweet is of public interest."

In short, if you're President, they let you do it.
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 PM on September 25 [57 favorites]


So with McCain, Collins and Paul all definite "noes" that's this one gone then? McCain and Collins both argue that changing healthcare (actually not healthcare) so fundamentally on a ludicrously restricted timeline doesn't get their vote so that's it if they want to do tax reform (actually money grab for the rich) next year? Right?
posted by merocet at 3:29 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Yes except it's 2017 so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:30 PM on September 25 [6 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The Trump administration guide to peaceful protests
1. Respect the Flag

Under the Trump administration, you have carte blanche to respect all kinds of flags, be they red, white and blue with stars from 240 years ago or red, white and blue with stars from just 150 years ago! When disposing of a well-respected flag, fold it gently with exquisite care. Be as careful with the flag as you would not be with the head of a person you were putting into a police car.

When honoring the flag and thinking how best to respect it, keep Puerto Rico as far from your thoughts as possible, as the flag is perfect as it is and remembering that Puerto Rico is part of the United States might someday lead to ruining the flag’s aesthetic with additional stars.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:31 PM on September 25 [45 favorites]


Just as his party's healthcare bill fails for the gazillionth time, Trump is mad at cable news:
.@CNN is #FakeNews. Just reported COS (John Kelly) was opposed to my stance on NFL players disrespecting FLAG, ANTHEM, COUNTRY. Total lie!
General John Kelly totally agrees w/ my stance on NFL players and the fact that they should not be disrespecting our FLAG or GREAT COUNTRY!
Tremendous backlash against the NFL and its players for disrespect of our Country.
#StandForOurAnthem🇺🇸
so that's it if they want to do tax reform (actually money grab for the rich) next year? Right?

They can write the reconciliation instructions to say they should do tax cuts and healthcare together. Some Republicans want to do that, others think it sounds as utterly mad at it is. In short, it's never over. They'll always keep trying. I'm still not exhaling until it's October though.
posted by zachlipton at 3:37 PM on September 25 [10 favorites]


I'm sure Kelly gave his approval for Trump to throw his name out there.
posted by PenDevil at 3:39 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]


So with McCain, Collins and Paul all definite "noes" that's this one gone then? McCain and Collins both argue that changing healthcare (actually not healthcare) so fundamentally on a ludicrously restricted timeline doesn't get their vote so that's it if they want to do tax reform (actually money grab for the rich) next year? Righ

If Trump's election has taught us anything, it's to not celebrate victory too early. We need to keep up the pressure on our reps until 10/1.
posted by Sangermaine at 3:39 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


Still in the wake of Silicon Valley execs

EXECS are not nerds.
posted by mikelieman at 3:41 PM on September 25 [17 favorites]


Just as his party's healthcare bill fails for the gazillionth time, Trump is mad at cable news:

Ah, President Senile Fox News Grampaw is staying true to his campaign promise to yell at the TV constantly
posted by Existential Dread at 3:41 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]


They can write the reconciliation instructions to say they should do tax cuts and healthcare together. Some Republicans want to do that, others think it sounds as utterly mad at it is. In short, it's never over. They'll always keep trying. I'm still not exhaling until it's October though.

But they won't have the fig leaf of the lowered baseline to cut taxes as much as they intended to, right? And I don't see how the politics of this get *better*, after all it will be a midterm year.

Not to say that it can't be done by a sufficiently evil and motivated group of fucks such as the one currently holed up on Capitol Hill.

I honestly thought on January 20 that they would be able to do this in the first hundred days or so. I'm quite happy that I overestimated their competence. SO FAR.
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:42 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


This is the day Trump truly became president
posted by theodolite at 3:42 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


We need to keep up the pressure on our reps until 10/1.

Susan Collins will continue to get my call from the socialist utopia of Portland, worry not.
posted by merocet at 3:44 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


from that Alexandra Petri article:

If you break a window, you are going to cause a family a lot of pane.

im dead
posted by numaner at 4:03 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


Chad, a staunch US ally that has sent troops to battle Al Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb and Boko Haram, was a surprising addition to Trump's travel ban.
No one seems to know why the Trump administration’s new travel ban includes Chad, a key counter-terrorism partner of the US military. Including Chad.
In a move that baffled former State Department officials and Africa security experts, the White House on Sunday extended its travel ban to include the central African nation, a crucial partner to the US and France in fighting extremist groups in the region.
Analysts noted that other impoverished countries in the region that weren't banned face the same sort of security issues.

posted by PenDevil at 4:03 PM on September 25 [32 favorites]


Wyden is closing ON FIRE
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:06 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


We're going to find out that Trump was mad at some dude named Chad, aren't we.
posted by mmoncur at 4:06 PM on September 25 [54 favorites]


No one seems to know why the Trump administration’s new travel ban includes Chad

Other than that Trump's stated intent to ban all Muslims and the fact that Chad is a majority Muslim country?
posted by The World Famous at 4:07 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


This is the day Trump truly became president

Trump will never become president. He will never BE president. And he certainly will never be MY president, and I will NEVER, EVER call him by that title. EVER.
posted by yoga at 4:08 PM on September 25 [16 favorites]




somebody from /t_d probably tweeted some MRA chads/normies drivel at him
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:16 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


NY Times op-ed by Eric Reid: Why Colin Kaepernick and I Decided to Take a Knee
After hours of careful consideration, and even a visit from Nate Boyer, a retired Green Beret and former N.F.L. player, we came to the conclusion that we should kneel, rather than sit, the next day during the anthem as a peaceful protest. We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture. I remember thinking our posture was like a flag flown at half-mast to mark a tragedy.

It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel. We chose it because it’s exactly the opposite. It has always been my understanding that the brave men and women who fought and died for our country did so to ensure that we could live in a fair and free society, which includes the right to speak out in protest. [...]

I can’t find words that appropriately express how heartbroken I am to see the constant smears against Colin, a person who helped start the movement with only the very best of intentions. We are talking about a man who helped to orchestrate a commercial planeful of food and supplies for famine-stricken Somalia. A man who has invested his time and money into needy communities here at home. A man I am proud to call my brother, who should be celebrated for his courage to seek change on important issues. Instead, to this day, he is unemployed and portrayed as a radical un-American who wants to divide our country. [...]

I am nevertheless encouraged to see my colleagues and other public figures respond to the president’s remarks with solidarity with us. It is paramount that we take control of the story behind our movement, which is that we seek equality for all Americans, no matter their race or gender.

What we need now is numbers. Some people acknowledge the issues we face yet remain silent bystanders. Not only do we need more of our fellow black and brown Americans to stand with us, but also people of other races.
This piece is really a must-read. Mr. Reid and Mr. Kaepernick are carrying on the tradition of peacefully fighting for people whose voices have been taken from them. True American Heroes.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:21 PM on September 25 [122 favorites]


somebody from /t_d probably tweeted some MRA chads/normies drivel at him

what the fuck is that even
posted by corb at 4:27 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]


It baffles me that our protest is still being misconstrued as disrespectful to the country, flag and military personnel.
It's not being innocently misconstrued, it's being intentionally misrepresented.
posted by Nerd of the North at 4:32 PM on September 25 [48 favorites]


what the fuck is that even
What is a Chad? A tall, good looking, charismatic, rich, popular, and muscular dude. Some are nice and some are mean.
Citation to r/incels, but I recommend you don't follow it. It's super ugly. www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/70hmvh/hi_i_am_a_polite_and_curios_norman_who_will_talk/

Maybe Trump is actually involuntarily celibate...
posted by Coventry at 4:33 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Corb --

somebody from /t_d probably tweeted some MRA chads/normies drivel at him

what the fuck is that even


"Chads" started out on 4chan as name for the guys in high school who were sleeping with a different girl every week while the nice guys were sitting home alone. It's been coopted by the entire red pill / mgtow (men going their own way) / incels (involuntary celibate) crowds on reddit and other places as a general insult against guys who aren't mysognistic shitheels who can have normal conversations with women.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:34 PM on September 25 [14 favorites]


I can't find it now but somebody on twitter had a video of Bill Cassidy fleeing, pursued by yelling people in wheelchairs. Cassidy was running while trying to film the wheelchair pursuers over his shoulder. The whole time, Cassidy had this manic grin on his face.

I want to find that clip and watch it every day of my life, Cassidy's forced grin looking like it was going to split his head in half, the furious women in wheelchairs screaming, gaining ground.
posted by angrycat at 4:37 PM on September 25 [42 favorites]


And not to abuse the edit window -- those groups hate chads but they ultimately blame women. It's a deeply misogynistic worldview.
posted by nathan_teske at 4:38 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


So with McCain, Collins and Paul all definite "noes" that's this one gone then?

I do NOT trust Paul here. When you reason for voting against something is that it doesn't fuck over enough people, there's wiggle room in your position.

Again and again, we've seen the repeal folks pick up votes by making a bill even worse. I expect that will be the next strategy.
posted by jcreigh at 4:39 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


I just got home from Jury Duty. Thanks ExConCard for the live blogging.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:39 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


Citation to r/incels, but I recommend you don't follow it. It's super ugly. www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/70hmvh/hi_i_am_a_polite_and_curios_norman_who_will_talk/


I know all those things you just described are real, but it still makes me think that we're living in the worst ever William Gibson novel, and clearly being manipulated by some sort of super shitty emergent AI.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 4:39 PM on September 25 [23 favorites]


Pop is great. His whole thing is worth a read. Some large snippets.

Gregg Popovich condemns Donald Trump's comments
"Our country is an embarrassment in the world," Popovich said. "This is an individual that when people held arms during games, [he thought] that they were doing it to honor the flag. That's delusional. But it's what we have to live with. You've got a choice: We can continue to bounce our heads off the walls with his conduct, or we can decide the institutions of our country are more important, people are more important, [the] decent America we all have and want is more important -- get down to business at the grassroots level and do what we have to do." ...

"I'm an individual. I live in this country. I have a right to say and do what I want. It has nothing to do with my position," Popovich said. "Obviously, race is the elephant in the room, and we all understand that unless it is talked about constantly, it is not going to get better. People get bored, 'Oh, is it that again? They are pulling the race card.' Because it's uncomfortable, there has be an uncomfortable element in the discourse for anything to change. Whether it is LGBT, women's suffrage, race, [it] doesn't matter. People have to be made to feel uncomfortable; especially white people. We still have no clue what being born white means.

"If you read some of the recent literature, there is no such thing as whiteness. But we made it up. Not my original thought, but it's true. Because you were born white, you have advantages systemically, culturally, psychology there. They have been built up for hundreds of years. Many people can't look at it. [It] can't be something on their plate on a daily basis. People want their status quo. People don't want to give it up. Until it's given up, it's not going to be fixed."
posted by chris24 at 4:40 PM on September 25 [75 favorites]


I know all those things you just described are real,

I only just discovered incels after they were mentioned in the "What Happened?" thread recently, so hardly an expert, but I'd say at least half of it is trolling. The misogyny is real in any case, though.
posted by Coventry at 4:42 PM on September 25


"Chads" started out on 4chan as name for the guys in high school . . .

Derail, but this usage is significantly older than 4chan. See also Blaines, as in James Spader's buddy in that John Hughes film. And Busters, which only tangentially related and hopefully requires no explication.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:42 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


Ryan Zinke is batshitinsane.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:44 PM on September 25 [17 favorites]


Just as his party's healthcare bill fails for the gazillionth time, Trump is mad at cable news:

I'm just enjoying the hashtag I saw in one of the responses: #nincompotus
posted by Mister Fabulous at 4:45 PM on September 25 [29 favorites]


Oh man, we've been using the term 'Chad' in Chicago since at least the 90's (the female equivalent is a Trixie). It in no way started online, let alone 4chan.
posted by Windigo at 4:45 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


It's super ugly. www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/70hmvh/hi_i_am_a_polite_and_curios_norman_who_will_talk/

Sweet mother of god. Thank you, but....Christ on a crutch, this is the most horrible year.
posted by corb at 4:46 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


when the trolling espouses and encourages others to spew vile toxicity and helps normalize repulsive behaviors, it doesn't really matter that it was for the lulz.

incels are just as evil as the channers who support kekistan.
posted by anem0ne at 4:46 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


Regarding the news that Jared and now Ivanka both were using private email accounts for government business, it should be kept clear -- using private email accounts for government business has never been and still is not illegal.

What is illegal is using private email for government business and not forwarding a copy to government archives within 20 days. This is a new law, enacted by the Republican led congress in 2014 and taking effect at the beginning of 2017.

Also note that this law was enacted after Clinton left office. Prior to the new law it was common practice for cabinet appointees to wait until they left office to forward records to archives and that is what Clinton did.

Now, this might be small-bore stuff in the scheme of infractions by the Trump administration but it is at least worth making a issue of the blatant hypocrisy when just two days ago Trump was leading the crowd in chants of "Lock her up."
posted by JackFlash at 4:47 PM on September 25 [57 favorites]


Ryan Zinke is batshitinsane.

I'm going to pullquote a bit, because this is worth reading:
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke said Monday that nearly one-third of employees at his department are not loyal to him and President Donald Trump, adding that he is working to change the department's regulatory culture to be more business friendly.

Zinke, a former Navy SEAL, said he knew when he took over the 70,000-employee department in March that, "I got 30 percent of the crew that's not loyal to the flag."

In a speech to an oil industry group, Zinke compared Interior to a pirate ship that captures "a prized ship at sea and only the captain and the first mate row over" to finish the mission.
posted by zachlipton at 4:48 PM on September 25 [17 favorites]


Chad knows what he did.

Won a war against Libya with Toyota pickup trucks, while Gadaffi's invading army was kitted out with Soviet armor and aircraft?

That was pretty bad-ass.
posted by Slap*Happy at 4:48 PM on September 25 [22 favorites]


WaPo is calling Graham-Cassidy a loss: Senate GOP effort to unwind the ACA collapses Monday (and yes, the URL is interestingly different from the article title). Collins, McCain, and Rand have all said they won't vote for it; Murkowski hasn't said but said she has "concerns;" Cruz has said he "could not back the bill because it does not go far enough," but I can't imagine he'd actually be the third vote to kill it if it got that far.

Earlier, the NYT had an article with a comparison chart (link to screencap) that showed how the various destroy-ACA plans stacked up. G-C is pretty much the worst of them, with the plan passed by the house being possibly a bit worse (in that it repeals the ACA taxes entirely instead of changing them).
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:53 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


GOP already eyeing next chance to revive Obamacare repeal
September 30 is not the end, they want to try again in the 2018 budget. And John McCain may not make it all the way through 2018.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:53 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Ryan Zinke is batshitinsane
Zinke also offered a quirky defense of hydraulic fracturing, a drilling technique also known as fracking that has led to a years-long energy boom in the U.S., with sharply increased production of oil and natural gas.

"Fracking is proof that God's got a good sense of humor and he loves us," Zinke said without explanation.
What explanation is needed? The statement speaks for itself.
In short: Beeble beeble nop nop florfel nooter koople boople.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:59 PM on September 25 [34 favorites]


2018 is a harder pitch for them - several have to run for reelection, and it's a lot harder to dodge your constituents while you're trying to persuade them to vote for you. (Not saying, "pshaw, that'll be easy to beat," just that the closed-room-last-minute bill plan doesn't mesh well with a campaign trail.)

There are going to be a lot of people asking what candidates' health care plans are.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:00 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Meghan McCain quit her job. He's not long for the world.

So if Collins, Paul, and McCain are def no, then wafflers can just go ahead and vote no now, right? They have the cover. Would be delicious to see Heller vote against his own bill.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:02 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


What the frack, Zinke?
Zinke also offered a quirky defense of hydraulic fracturing, a drilling technique also known as fracking that has led to a years-long energy boom in the U.S., with sharply increased production of oil and natural gas.

"Fracking is proof that God's got a good sense of humor and he loves us," Zinke said without explanation.
(original historical quote)
posted by tilde at 5:03 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


Sadly, I don't see McCain making it in the Senate through the midterms. If the Republicans ram through a 50 vote (+Pence) bill with McCain's replacement next year just before the midterms it will be a travesty and may God have mercy on them for it because we sure won't.
posted by Justinian at 5:04 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


I know this is sort of borderline tinfoil hat of me, but I worry about fracking in Oklahoma setting off New Madrid. I live on that line and I have earthquake coverage on the house (like a lot of people here) but I'll probably be too dead to use it.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:05 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


There have been no foreign elements trying to take away my rights.
I would have fully agreed with that statement right up until it was announced that Russian hackers were targeting voting systems in 2016.
posted by xyzzy at 5:07 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


between trump getting his missile news solely from fox news, jared kushner's private email use, ivanka's private email use, and this zinke fellow's comments, can anyone give me one good reason why i shouldn't stuff vanilla joe-joe's in my face and pound whiskey tonight until i black out
posted by entropicamericana at 5:10 PM on September 25 [28 favorites]


Christ on a crutch, this is the most horrible year

I sometimes console myself that Ms. Fisher or Prince or Mr. Michael don't have to see this.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:11 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


@ryangrim: Donald Trump spent the last hour on the phone with Republican senators getting told no on his repeal bill. Look out, world.

Daily Beast, Team Trump Prepares the Shiv for Mitch McConnell: ‘He Needs To Go.’
One senior Trump administration official told The Daily Beast that the president is “well prepared to” shovel blame onto McConnell if and when the latest Obamacare repeal effort goes down in flames later this week. Another Trump confidant noted that the president regularly vents about “Mitch’s” seeming inability to get “anything over the finish line.”

A White House official joked that it has proven a winning “formula” for Trump to go after the unpopularity of top GOP brass, including McConnell, ever since the campaign. Trump even spent the last few days hammering home the point that Strange (who is locked in an election fight against Roy Moore) isn’t even all that close to McConnell politically or personally, and that Strange would be “fighting Mitch” in the Senate as an authentic conservative.
...
In declining to comment, Don Stewart, a spokesman for McConnell, noted that neither the Alabama primary nor the vote on the health care bill authored by Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Bill Cassidy (R-LA) had yet occurred. But he did take a shot at the Senator’s critics in the White House for not putting their names on their takes. “All anonymous sources, right?” Stewart asked, adding: “#brave.”

A source close to McConnell, meanwhile, argued that if blame is to be cast it should be on the White House political shop for not working in advance to avoid a primary fight in Alabama. Far from helping Trump pass his agenda, the source added, a Moore win would imperil it.

“The only two things that I heard [Moore] talk about from a policy perspective is his opposition to Graham-Cassidy and his opposition to his budget that doesn’t balance, which doesn’t lend itself to tax reform,” said the source. “And unless I missed something, those are the two things on Trump's agenda.”
One of the authors of this story provided a helpful hint on Twitter earlier today: The “your fake story is based on anon. sources” line is literally never not given to me by someone who doesn’t go on background every day
posted by zachlipton at 5:12 PM on September 25 [21 favorites]


So Bernie Sanders was on Tavis Smiley last night and Tavis was really trying to egg him into relitigating the primaries. Has anyone yet come out and said relitigating the primaries is a dumb thing because the Russian were going to bag this for Trump no matter what? I'm waiting for it to come out that the republican primaries were fixed too, especially in light of Manafort's long time FISA surveillance. What happen when Rubio and Jeb! and Canned Soup realize that they were affected by this too?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:13 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


NYT, Matt Apuzzo and Maggie Haberman,
At Least 6 White House Advisers Used Private Email Accounts
At least six of President Trump’s closest advisers occasionally used private email addresses to discuss White House matters, current and former officials said on Monday.

The disclosures came a day after news surfaced that Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and adviser, used a private email account to send or receive about 100 work-related emails during the administration’s first seven months. But Mr. Kushner was not alone. Stephen K. Bannon, the former chief White House strategist, and Reince Priebus, the former chief of staff, also occasionally used private email addresses. Other advisers, including Gary D. Cohn and Stephen Miller, sent or received at least a few emails on personal accounts, officials said.

Ivanka Trump, the president’s elder daughter, who is married to Mr. Kushner, used a private account when she acted as an unpaid adviser in the first months of the administration, Newsweek reported Monday. Administration officials acknowledged that she also occasionally did so when she formally became a White House adviser. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter with reporters.
Because it's the Times, the story goes on to explain why this is just swell and what Clinton did was completely different and terrible.

BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS BUT HER EMAILS
posted by zachlipton at 5:14 PM on September 25 [68 favorites]


can anyone give me one good reason why i shouldn't stuff vanilla joe-joe's in my face and pound whiskey tonight until i black out
posted by entropicamericana at 19:10 on September 25 [+] [!]


Because I just grilled a skirt steak. Dinner first. Come over.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:14 PM on September 25 [30 favorites]


fracking seems more like proof positive of the innately self-destructive nature of humankind, other than some divine blessing. But, tomato tomato
posted by angrycat at 5:16 PM on September 25 [12 favorites]


I find America's obsessive hero-worship of The!! Troops!! really bizarre and cult-like.

It's also, to me, strongly reminiscent of the romanticising of the military in Europe during the years prior to WWI. I worry a lot about that.


To my knowledge, none of the pre-WWI European powers had an equivalent to the Second Amendment. So I think Americans are supposed to worship the troops for protecting your freedoms until such time as you have to kill them because of the threat they pose to your freedoms.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:19 PM on September 25 [17 favorites]


Oh good grief. The story ends by saying "Democrats criticized members of the George W. Bush administration for the practice."

That's not what we criticized them for. They were criticized for massive violations of the Presidential Records Act, to the tune of millions of emails, for using an RNC server that was set to automatically delete everything after 30 days.

This isn't some partisan "both side do it" fight, this is a question of whether Presidential records were preserved as required by the law.
posted by zachlipton at 5:21 PM on September 25 [58 favorites]


While the private email accounts spurred accusations of hypocrisy from Democrats, there are differences. Mrs. Clinton stored classified information on a private server, and she exclusively used a private account for her government work, sending or receiving tens of thousands of emails.

THAT IS A FUCKING LIE, MAGGIE, AND YOU KNOW IT. The information was retroactively classified, it wasn't classified at the time. And we're still going with "but Kushner has **TWO** email accounts"?? Really??

At this point I'm perfectly comfortable labeling Habermann a Nazi collaborator too, because that's what she did and is still doing.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:22 PM on September 25 [62 favorites]


I sometimes console myself that Ms. Fisher or Prince or Mr. Michael don't have to see this.
I'd add Patty Duke, Gene Wilder, Alan Young and Abe Vigoda to that group... and 'earlier this year' passings Mary Tyler Moore, Adam West and John "War Doctor" Hurt...
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:23 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


Sadly, I don't see McCain making it in the Senate through the midterms. If the Republicans ram through a 50 vote (+Pence) bill with McCain's replacement next year just before the midterms it will be a travesty and may God have mercy on them for it because we sure won't.

It won't change a lot of states. The sad thing is that poor Republicans hate their healthcare being taken away but at the same time they hate abortions, immigrants, and Muslims more.
posted by Talez at 5:30 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]




And we're still going with "but Kushner has **TWO** email accounts"?? Really??

I think what she's getting at there is
it is not illegal for White House officials to use private email accounts as long as they forward work-related messages to their work accounts so they can be preserved.
But if Mueller still needed a reason to subpoena all of Kushner's private email, he definitely has one now.
posted by Coventry at 5:31 PM on September 25 [15 favorites]


The entire Dallas Cowboys team, including the super-Trumpnik owner, just went to the middle of the field and took a knee before (but not during) the national anthem. They still got booed, of course.
posted by dirigibleman at 5:32 PM on September 25 [37 favorites]


To my knowledge, none of the pre-WWI European powers had an equivalent to the Second Amendment. So I think Americans are supposed to worship the troops for protecting your freedoms until such time as you have to kill them because of the threat they pose to your freedoms.

Don't forget that you have to keep them out of your house per the third amendment. Probably all government housing too but nobody has done a creative interpretation of the third the way they do with the second.
posted by srboisvert at 5:38 PM on September 25



The entire Dallas Cowboys team, including the super-Trumpnik owner, just went to the middle of the field and took a knee before (but not during) the national anthem. They still got booed, of course.


weird, so it wasn't about "disrespect" of the national anthem? I guess "kneeling" is now yet another form of peaceful protest not allowed for black people.
posted by lalex at 5:47 PM on September 25 [20 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Texas & Florida are doing great but Puerto Rico, which was already suffering from broken infrastructure & massive debt, is in deep trouble..

When we said Trump should be focusing on Puerto Rico, we meant helping them, not "blame the territory."
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on September 25 [46 favorites]


Now it's become a protest by NFL owners of Trump telling people to boycott NFL games. Jerry Jones doesn't give a shit about police killings. Let Jerry release a statement in support of BLM and Kapernick if he wants to show support for police violence, short of that, its yet another coopting of a POC cause by rich white Republican fucks to keep making money.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:51 PM on September 25 [12 favorites]


Just because it sounds better in French:

Mike Pence déplore les «lacunes» du système de santé canadien

"Lacunes" meaning "gaps" or "holes." But also...

Our system has problems for sure, but if you had a lacunar stroke you would not be out of pocket for your emergency or follow up treatment.

Asshole.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:51 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


When we said Trump should be focusing on Puerto Rico, we meant helping them, not "blame the territory."

This is his attempt to excuse himself for any responsibility for Puerto Rico, the same way how in the days before Harvey he kept tweet-ranting about how it was an "unprecedented" storm.
posted by lalex at 5:51 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


good lord he actually negged a group of people whose lives are in peril
/screaming, screaming, screaming
posted by angrycat at 5:52 PM on September 25 [35 favorites]


Brave new world, that has me feeling good about the goddamn Dallas Cowboys?

Though yeah, I bet for Jones it has nothing to do with racism.

But does the crowd understand that? The kneeling/not kneeling with arms locked/both demonstrations have confused the heck out of this, honestly.
posted by emjaybee at 5:54 PM on September 25 [4 favorites]


List of potential McCain replacements

It's a murderer's row of yes votes
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:58 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


luuuuulz

@thehill: "Ivanka Trump used personal email to conduct government work: report"
@TheRickWilson: "She used it...but opposed using it. She was deeply concerned."
posted by lalex at 6:02 PM on September 25 [17 favorites]


> It's a murderer's row of yes votes

Well, at least they'll have experience.
posted by tonycpsu at 6:02 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


Here's that full set of tweets:
Texas & Florida are doing great but Puerto Rico, which was already suffering from broken infrastructure & massive debt, is in deep trouble..
...It's old electrical grid, which was in terrible shape, was devastated. Much of the Island was destroyed, with billions of dollars....
...owed to Wall Street and the banks which, sadly, must be dealt with. Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well. #FEMA
This "blame Puerto Rico and make them pay back their debt, btw everything is going great" routine comes literally as the Governor of Puerto Rico is telling Chris Hayes that 60% of the population lacks access to potable water. Trump is lying. This is disgusting.
posted by zachlipton at 6:07 PM on September 25 [83 favorites]


"billions of dollars owed to Wall Street and the banks which, sadly, must be dealt with"
What? He's not going to provide aid to bail out the banks & Wall Street? You'd think he's gonna lose some of his closest allies over that...
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:12 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


Wall Street and the banks which, sadly, must be dealt with

Hey, out of context this is not a sad notion at all. The banks and Wall Street must be dealt with.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:13 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]




I just heard an interview on the radio with Frances Robles, who's in Puerto Rico. She reports that there's no electricity, people are starting to run out of stockpiled food and are breaking into ruined stores, FEMA is nowhere to be seen, and they're about two days away from a full-on humanitarian crisis.
posted by theodolite at 6:15 PM on September 25 [20 favorites]


Of course, he ignores why Puerto Rico was in a massive debt crisis in the first place, since Congress literally would not let them set their own gorram financial policy, since they're effectively a colony still.

Thanks, Congress. That worked swell.
posted by Archelaus at 6:16 PM on September 25 [25 favorites]


I have no idea whether "must be dealt with" means that the loans must be paid off anyway or that they must be forgiven, and I suspect the President doesn't know either
posted by theodolite at 6:17 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


One can't imagine him asking his wall street buddies to take the loss on forgiving the debts. Obviously, that burden must be shifted to the taxpayers.
posted by Archelaus at 6:18 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


i know this is going to shock you as loyal, true blue americans but i was raised in a church where there was an american flag on the right side of the altar and people kneeled repeatedly during the service - and there are tens of millions of these subversives in this country

catholics, man, i swear ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:18 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


This is said a lot, in particular with respect to 45, but: Christ, what an asshole.
posted by Room 101 at 6:19 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


Twitter isn't cutting him off, citing newsworthiness and transparency.

I kinda understand they are in a no-win situation. Cutting him off would, at best, bring the anger of the Right. At worst, it would invite regulation of social media (and perhaps kill Network Neutrality), under some Orwellian* claim of "Free Speech."

Plus, as someone noted, it gives us some insight into his id. It gives him enough rope to hang himself with.

*Someone upthread noted that John Hurt didn't have to see this, calling him the War Doctor. He was also Winston Smith.
posted by MrGuilt at 6:23 PM on September 25 [6 favorites]


this series of Puerto Rico tweets has enraged me more than anything in the past 402 years TrumptimeUnits, like I am shivering with anger right now.
posted by lalex at 6:24 PM on September 25 [53 favorites]


You know what the cherry on top of the shit sundae of this latest ACA repeal bill is? The incredibly bad faith that Lamar Alexander showed by not standing up for the bipartisan healthcare committee he was oh so proud of by declaring himself a "no" on Graham-Cassidy. Yeah, gonna feel real secure in any promises made in that negotiation if they go back to the table.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:31 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


it's like the lesson learned from Katrina was to blame New Orleans
posted by angrycat at 6:32 PM on September 25 [6 favorites]


What's the story with Murray and Alexander? Is there an ELI5 on that?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:34 PM on September 25


Why do I suspect that if you dig back far enough, somebody in the Puerto Rican local government denied Trump a request to build a resort there and this is his payback?
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:35 PM on September 25 [16 favorites]


I can't get over the insanity of the "It's OK that they have personal email because they also use their government email" defense. Shame on the NYT for buying it hook line and sinker.
Wife: "You have a secret second cellphone?"

Husband: "Yes, but it's OK because I also have a regular cellphone."

posted by 0xFCAF at 6:36 PM on September 25 [38 favorites]


What's the story with Murray and Alexander? Is there an ELI5 on that?

It was an attempt for bipartisan stabilization of the Obamacare market places and making sure the CSR payments were paid. It doesn't really matter about the details, because Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell both said they wouldn't give it a vote this week to try again on Graham-Cassidy. Until we hear bipartisan talks are back on, there's nothing to ELI5.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:37 PM on September 25


20 minutes later @realdonaldtrump has moved on to slamming John McCain: "A few of the many clips of John McCain talking about Repealing & Replacing O'Care. My oh my has he changed-complete turn from years of talk!"
posted by lalex at 6:38 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


List of potential McCain replacements

I love how they're talking about who could replace McCain "if he retires". As though that makes it less macabre. We know what you guys are talking about, we know.
posted by Justinian at 6:39 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


@EricColumbus (former Obama official)
THREAD: One part of Trump's disturbing NFL rant at that Alabama rally deserves more attention: the bit about the referee and his wife. [text of rant]
2. Trump lamented that calling penalties for excessively hard hits is "ruining the game" because players "want to hit."
3. Why the penalties? "The referee gets on television, his wife is sitting at home, she's so proud of him."
4. The ref is a pussy, unmanned by his need for his wife’s approval. A real man doesn’t throw penalty flags for ticky-tacky stuff.
5. This is a favorite Trump theme: real Americans are now hemmed in by PC ninnies and their stupid rules. And this time by a woman, no less!
6. Trump often laments the “old days,” when people could beat up protesters.
7. And shoot deserters.
8. And kill captured Muslims with bullets dipped in pigs’ blood.
9. Women bear special blame for ending the old days. In fact, “men are petrified to speak to women anymore.”
10. The irony is that the Trump candidate’s *opponent* in Tuesday’s GOP primary, Roy Moore, is famous for peddling this good-old-days crap.
11. Last week Moore pledged to free America from “political correctness & social experimentation like transgender troops in our bathrooms."
12. (Would all be forgiven If transgender troops relieved themselves in outhouses?)
13. In one sense, Moore’s good-old-days pitch is very different: he says the USA went astray by forsaking God. Roy Moore says 'we've asked for' shootings and killings by turning away from God
14. Trump isn’t a God guy, of course. But Moore’s religious laments have much in common with Trump’s secular declinism.
15. Both men complain that a once-great nation is being laid low by an ever-expanding set of unjust restrictions.
16. For Moore, the sissy referees are federal judges. He was kicked off the Alabama Supreme Court *twice* for disobeying federal courts.
17. Moore was removed in 2003 for ignoring a federal court order to dislodge a Ten Commandments monument he had installed at the courthouse.
18. Elected once again in 2012, he was suspended in 2016 for rest of his term for ordering probate judges not to give gay marriage licenses.
19. Things aren’t what they used to be, Trump and Moore agree. Can’t lead students in prayer. Must pee next to [trans]. No hard tackles.
20. Bizarrely, if Trump’s chosen candidate loses tomorrow, Trump’s vision of America will prevail. END OF THREAD
posted by chris24 at 6:44 PM on September 25 [38 favorites]


Oh the CNN debate is on too. Bernie is owning, he's defending the ACA, so that concern was overblown so far. Graham is repeating debunked bullshit. Cassidy sounded like a goddamn fucking moron and has literally made me lose faith in the institution of doctors, because between him and Ben Carson, fuck man.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:45 PM on September 25 [26 favorites]


Ugh ugh ugh I just thought about how deep down, cringingly horrible Trump's reactions to the death of John McCain will be. Because the only way for Trump to not be ghoulish and awful will be to shut up and do nothing, and that absolutely won't happen. He will insist on coming to the funeral to dance on the grave.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:45 PM on September 25 [6 favorites]


In fact, “men are petrified to speak to women anymore.”

...

...goooood?
posted by jason_steakums at 6:46 PM on September 25 [23 favorites]


We need a Majority Leader replacement betting pool. Obvious choices are Grassley and Hatch because of longevity. Right wingy picks would be Barrasso or Blunt. Generic republican would be Hoeven, Thune, or Crapo. Pandering to young republicans (at least in kayfabe) would be Sasse or Cotton, possibly Capito.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:47 PM on September 25


$100 says Trump calls McCain a hero in a eulogy read from a teleprompter
posted by 0xFCAF at 6:49 PM on September 25 [8 favorites]


My money is on Blunt or Thune, btw.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:49 PM on September 25


We need a Majority Leader replacement betting pool.

Mitch ain't going nowhere. Being despised by Trump doesn't seem to be a liability for him.
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:52 PM on September 25


Hope it's not Grassley unless you want the condescension of a Majority Leader who will make a big show about bipartisanship but won't shut up about how the Democrats aren't being bipartisan because they aren't caving to every single thing the Republicans want.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:56 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Thanks for liveblogging the G-C hearing this morning. It reminded me to donate to ADAPT.

The most recent white rage ("ungrateful," really?) against kneeling African American athletes finally got me to go look up something I've been trying to put my finger on, from Michelle Alexander's The New Jim Crow book:
A widespread belief that a majority of black and brown men unfortunately belong in jail is compatible with the new American creed, provided that their imprisonment can be interpreted as their own fault. If the prison label imposed on them can be blamed on their culture, poor work ethic, or even their families, then society is absolved of responsibility to do anything about their condition. This is where black exceptionalism comes in. Highly visible examples of black success are critical to the maintenance of a racial caste system in the era of colorblindness. . . . [to] lend credence to the notion that anyone, no matter how poor or how black you may be, can make it to the top, if only you try hard enough. These stories “prove” that race is no longer relevant.
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 6:56 PM on September 25 [46 favorites]


Twitter isn't cutting him off, citing newsworthiness and transparency.

twitter isn't cutting him off because they are gutless cowards who value money above all else and are possibly closeted nazis
posted by entropicamericana at 6:57 PM on September 25 [20 favorites]


I missed Klobuchar's opening statement but she just crushed with a defense of maternity benefits in the ACA.

And Graham comes back with the bullshit Project Veritas "aborted body parts" videos. This debate is a fucking farce, as expected. But both Dems are doing well. Graham and Cassidy have nothing really in response except lies.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:02 PM on September 25 [16 favorites]


(Hey, uh, guys, it's gross that the GOP is looking forward to McCain's death. I know it's not what you meant, and/but even in the context of how awful Trump is, it's still kind of gross for us to be putting him in the grave early too. Let the guy fight his cancer. )
posted by BlueBlueElectricBlue at 7:02 PM on September 25 [19 favorites]


The backlash against Trump is also very profitable for Twitter - the most liked and most retweeted tweets ever are responses to him. 140 characters of Free Speech is a gold mine.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:03 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Has Amy Klobuchar raised the ire of either wing of the Democratic party yet? Because I kind of like her. I could go for a Franken/Klobuchar (or Klobuchar/Franken) all Minnesoooota ticket.
posted by Justinian at 7:04 PM on September 25 [10 favorites]


[to] lend credence to the notion that anyone, no matter how poor or how black you may be, can make it to the top, if only you try hard enough. These stories “prove” that race is no longer relevant.

Last week I watched Ben Shapiro's Berkeley speech so you all don't have to. His argument that racial discrimination isn't a big deal in the US was propped up by the stat that Asian-Americans are the group in the US with the biggest salaries. And a minute or two later he said black people should just get jobs. He doesn't know anything about scientific findings and historical reality in the fields he is talking big about. His arguments were deeply shallow and relentlessly cherry picked.
posted by puddledork at 7:05 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


I just remembered that a Franken/Klobuchar ticket would be unconstitutional! Damn you, Founders!
posted by Justinian at 7:08 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


Not yet, everyone still loves Amy Klobuchar.

Sorry an all Minnesota ticket is impossible though, since the veep has to be from a different state. Like Missouri. Where Jason Kander is from. Or Indiana, where Pete Buttigieg is from.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:08 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]


Didn't Cheney move from Texas to Wyoming to be able to be Bush Jr.'s running mate, but I don't know how far in advance that was...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:11 PM on September 25 [3 favorites]


Yes, the different state thing is one of those relics that doesn't particularly make sense in this day and age but is more trouble than it's worth to change.
posted by Justinian at 7:11 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


the different state thing is one of those relics that doesn't particularly make sense in this day and age but is more trouble than it's worth to change.

Like the electoral college.

wait.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:19 PM on September 25 [24 favorites]


Does Saudi Arabia have any beef with Chad? Because that's where I'd start looking for answers first. Yemen is added to the list too. When it comes to foreign policy, Trump's fear of brown people usually takes a back seat to his personal business prospects.
posted by p3t3 at 7:20 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]




Why do I suspect that if you dig back far enough, somebody in the Puerto Rican local government denied Trump a request to build a resort there and this is his payback?

Why do I suspect that Donald Trump is and has been a fucking flagrant vicious inhuman sociopathic bigot every minute of every day forever?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:25 PM on September 25 [29 favorites]


Doesn't someone here have Klobuchar/Kennedy as their 2020 favorite?
posted by asteria at 7:29 PM on September 25


Not a peep about Puerto Rico from the "man." And none from his wife or children. None from anyone in the administration, or am I wrong? I also wished they believed in hell, but they don't, and here are several hundred people in DC who are openly showing the world that they do not care one jot about anyone who isn't a white man giving them money, regardless of appeals to "support the troops".

They are literally insane with their desire to destroy everything, kick every POC, non-straight, non male, non-Evangelical in the face, and running off with sacks of cash, while trying to push everyone else in the Potomac to drown.

------------------------

Christ on a crutch, this is the most horrible year

I sometimes console myself that Ms. Fisher or Prince or Mr. Michael don't have to see this.


Huh. I wonder if Iman Abdulmajid and Duncan Jones have thoughts about leaving this country with their children and never coming back, not even to work. Bowie's grandson is Asian and his daughter is black. Could they go to Europe? It's getting scary there, also. I suppose their fame and money will keep the kids safe.

It's almost odd to see so many white celebrities speaking out against this racist man, his evil administration, and the craven greedheads in Congress, though, obviously, I'm glad they're doing it. What's the quote? "If we don't hang together, we will surely hang separately"? Is this at all precedented? How can we encourage more of it, especially since a big reason he's in office is because he wanted to be the ultimate permanent A-lister. Did a lot German non-Jewish celebrities during the WWII publicly stand up against the Reich? I only know of Conrad Veidt and Dietrich doing so.

posted by droplet at 7:29 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


I keep remembering that a (tiny) part of the brouhaha following the 2000 election involved "hanging chads" and can't help wondering if 45 or someone in his brainless entourage is associating it with something...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:34 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


@bomani_jones
know what's crazy? taking a knee, rather than sitting, was a compromise to show deference to veterans. but y'all just wanna be mad, ha?
- moral of the story? it's not about what these guys are or aren't doing. it's about who they are. or, in critics' minds, *what* they are.
- seriously, have you forgotten already? why is it so easy to play y'all? LAT (Sept '16): Colin Kaepernick kneels during national anthem while former Green Beret Nate Boyer stands beside him
- anyway, what's happened is a discussion of the mistreatment of black ppl has been turned into a one of hurt white feelings over the anthem.
- and yesterday, with all the statements, was about trump disparaging the league run by mostly white owners and how that hurt their feelings.
- then it became about how villanueva gets to say what he wants no matter what, because military, which is readily associated with whiteness.
- meanwhile, all that arm locking and few address trump saying protestors should be fired...but none of these owners will hire kaepernick.
- nope. we're knee deep in the only angles the general white population is comfortable with: the anthem, the flag and "freedom of speech."
- all things to which white ppl can relate. but "hey, please stop shooting us!" just doesn't go over the same way.
posted by chris24 at 7:35 PM on September 25 [81 favorites]


Texas & Florida are doing great but Puerto Rico, which was already suffering from broken infrastructure & massive debt, is in deep trouble..
...It's old electrical grid, which was in terrible shape, was devastated. Much of the Island was destroyed, with billions of dollars....
...owed to Wall Street and the banks which, sadly, must be dealt with. Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well. #FEMA
#CorporationsLivesMatter

That's it. I'm out of evens. I'm so crackly I could be The Human Torch.
posted by tilde at 7:44 PM on September 25 [16 favorites]


Please tell us more about what a shithole Puerto Rico is while people are dying, President Trump.
posted by Justinian at 7:47 PM on September 25 [32 favorites]


There once was a man from New York
With a belly like a barrel o' pork
He said "watch me win"
And proceeded to spin
Why he was confused by a spork.
posted by loquacious at 7:47 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


The moving states to run thing is utter fuck bullshit. Tennessee Trey is one of the jackholes I have to call. He "moved" into the 9th district in 2015.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 7:48 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Food, water and medical are top priorities - and doing well.


And doing well?

DOING WELL??


Can a President be sued for malpractice?
posted by darkstar at 7:52 PM on September 25 [11 favorites]


this series of Puerto Rico tweets has enraged me more than anything in the past 402 years TrumptimeUnits

Yeah like I'm trawling Puerto Rican twitter to see if I can find out if my family that moved there is okay but thanks Trump for letting me know the government is broke, I had no idea and also care much more about that than say them getting food and water.
posted by corb at 7:55 PM on September 25 [14 favorites]


Switching out McConnell as Leader would be a disaster for the Republican Senate, but they'd manage. As I recall the Leader elections are done by secret ballot and only the majority caucus gets to vote. So you'd only need 27 votes to win. Theoretically this could be done without too much drama and everyone would keep it to themselves. But OF COURSE Trump would insert himself into the discussion and create a mess of everything. But they'd muddle through somehow.

But the House is another deal altogether. If Ryan got deposed it would be like Game of Thrones almost. The voting is done in a public vote and you need a majority of all members, 218 votes. These dipshits can't even manage 218 votes for hurricane disaster relief! No way they can all agree on a new Speaker. I don't even know how many candidates would pop up. It would be chaos.

The truly remarkable thing is that both of these things are possible! Unlikely. But possible! Any other government and it would be ludicrous to suggest that a Majority Leader would get deposed by his own members on the order of his own President! But 2017? Who knows?
posted by Glibpaxman at 7:59 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


Hmm 2005 Republican president is so malcompetent he lets humanitarian distaster and death befall hurricane survivors, flash forward to 2017 Republican president is so malcompetent he is poised to let humanitarian disaster and death befall hurricane survivors.

If only I could figure out some link here, help me out guys. We've got to think.

Oh yeah, and I'm resurrecting "malcompetent". Funny how things go in circles.
posted by supercrayon at 8:07 PM on September 25 [12 favorites]


A lot of quality, interesting Democratic possibilities for 2020, but Democrats could run Dirty Sock/Flat Soda and I'd be: ALL. IN. If, however, celebrity (barfshudder) has become cemented as the new status quo, I'd be thrilled to vote for an Oprah/LeBron ticket. Everyone gets healthcare, you get healthcare, you get healthcare, you get healthcare, you: Get out U bum!!
posted by riverlife at 8:11 PM on September 25 [31 favorites]


Patrick Redford, Deadspin: Stop Using Pat Tillman
So, remember Tillman as a brave man. Remember him as an athlete who gave up on a lucrative profession to make a sacrifice others would not. But to remember him this way without taking into account everything that happened after he went to the Middle East would be disingenuous. Don’t forget how he developed anti-war views, or how his legacy was manipulated by the powerful in order to stay in power and to keep feeding young men’s lives to the war machine. To bring Tillman into the national anthem kneeling debate as someone who would have reprimanded his teammates for protesting racial injustice (and not, as cynical commentators would have you think, the military) is to completely misunderstand who he was or what he believed in. Pat Tillman was exploited as propaganda from the moment he enlisted, and even more so after his death. Don’t let him be used today.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:14 PM on September 25 [40 favorites]




Sorry an all Minnesota ticket is impossible though, since the veep has to be from a different state.

Not really, though not likely because of possible complications. Only the electoral college delegates from Minnesota are prohibited from voting for both. All the electors from other states could vote for both Klobuchar and Franken. The electors from Minnesota could help elect Klobuchar as president, but couldn't also vote for Franken as vice-president. This might mean that Klobuchar wins the presidency and depending on the remaining spread, if there is no absolute majority for vice-president, then the Senate decides.
posted by JackFlash at 8:34 PM on September 25 [2 favorites]


More like this please, sports journalists.

wow, everyone go watch this.
posted by lalex at 8:41 PM on September 25 [13 favorites]




Team Trump Prepares the Shiv for Mitch McConnell: ‘He Needs To Go.

I wonder when McConnell gets a clue and realizes he has to put a shiv in Trump before Trump puts a shiv in him.

Et tu, Ryan?
posted by JackFlash at 8:42 PM on September 25 [9 favorites]


More like this please, sports journalists.

wow, everyone go watch this.


Here is the transcript.
posted by lalex at 8:45 PM on September 25 [24 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS pt 2

Some late in the day polls:

** AL senate special:
-- Cygnal: Moore up 52-41
-- Trafalgar: Moore up 57-41

** VA gov:
-- CNU: Northam up 47-41
-- IMGE Insights: Northam up 45-41

** NJ gov:
-- Suffolk: Murphy up 44-25
posted by Chrysostom at 9:04 PM on September 25 [19 favorites]


Uhhh... this seems bad. Via BuzzfeedNews

"WASHINGTON – Federal officials are planning to collect social media information on all immigrants, including permanent residents and naturalized citizens, a move that has alarmed lawyers and privacy groups worried about how the information will be used.

The Department of Homeland Security published the new rule in the Federal Register last week, saying it wants to include "social media handles, aliases, associated identifiable information, and search results" as part of people's immigration file. The new requirement takes effect Oct. 18."

posted by anastasiav at 9:28 PM on September 25 [49 favorites]


A's fans gave Bruce Maxwell a standing ovation in his first at-bat since he kneeled during national anthem.

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 9:36 PM on September 25 [25 favorites]


Marie Tillman has released a statement to CNN's Brian Stelter:
As a football player and soldier, Pat inspired countless Americans to unify," Tillman wrote. "It is my hope that his memory should always remind people that we must come together. Pat’s service, along with that of every man and woman's service, should never be politicized in a way that divides us. We are too great of a country for that. Those that serve fight for the American ideals of freedom, justice and democracy. They and their families know the cost of that fight. I know the very personal costs in a way I feel acutely every day.

Tillman added: "The very action of self expression and the freedom to speak from one’s heart — no matter those views — is what Pat and so many other Americans have given their lives for. Even if they didn’t always agree with those views. It is my sincere hope that our leaders both understand and learn from the lessons of Pat's life and death, and also those of so many other brave Americans.
posted by lalex at 9:45 PM on September 25 [19 favorites]


wow, everyone go watch this

Holy shit that was great.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:01 PM on September 25 [5 favorites]


"WASHINGTON – Federal officials are planning to collect social media information on all immigrants, including permanent residents and naturalized citizens, a move that has alarmed lawyers and privacy groups worried about how the information will be used.

@tedlieu: Dear @DHSgov: I am a Naturalized Citizen. This is my Twitter account. And your stupid program below can go to hell. It's NUTS!
posted by zachlipton at 10:26 PM on September 25 [55 favorites]


anastasiav: "[DHS] wants to include "social media handles, aliases, associated identifiable information, and search results" as part of people's immigration file. The new requirement takes effect Oct. 18."

Right now there are only two public comments on this. Maybe some of you born citizens, especially if you're a white Christian (you could leverage that by saying, "As a white Christian..."), could let them know what you think of this staggering invasion of privacy? Since the regime obviously assumes that permanent residents and naturalized citizens are deceitful.

The specific phrase in the proposed rule is under "Supplementary Information," paragraph 2 which begins,
The Department of Homeland Security, therefore, is updating the . . . Alien File, Index, and National File Tracking System of Records notice to: (1) Redefine which records constitute the official record of an individual's immigration history to include the following materials and formats: . . . (5) expand the categories of records to include the following: . . . social media handles, aliases, associated identifiable information, and search results . . .
I'm also side-eyeing "(11) update record source categories to include publicly available information obtained from the internet, public records, public institutions, interviewees, commercial data providers, and information obtained and disclosed pursuant to information sharing agreements." I hope I'm just being paranoid. Visions of the Stasi are dancing through my head...
posted by cybercoitus interruptus at 10:26 PM on September 25 [37 favorites]


There's a bit more nuance to the NK situation than OMG WE ARE AT WAR NOW

Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
posted by flabdablet at 10:35 PM on September 25 [1 favorite]


Thanks for the heads-up, cybercoitus interruptus. This 62-year-old white male natural citizen just published his objection.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:56 PM on September 25 [7 favorites]




That is a fascinating and possibly useful perspective.
posted by Coventry at 12:01 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]


Someone needs to point out to Republicans that a mere 115,000 Puerto Ricans moving to Florida will swing that state Democrat permanently, since their votes suddenly count as soon as they hit the mainland, and maybe they should hurry up and fix the island before THREE MILLION pissed off Puerto Ricans start landing in southern swing states because they had to flee the island.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:20 AM on September 26 [137 favorites]


I propose New Puerto Rico between Youngstown and Pittsburgh, straddling the OH/PA border with a largish enclave in New San Juan north of Tampa.
posted by Justinian at 12:23 AM on September 26 [26 favorites]


Nick Wright of Fox Sports is also worth a watch on the protests and how the right has tried to hijack them for their own agenda and comfort.

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 4:13 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


MoJo: A New Study Shows Just How Many Americans Were Blocked From Voting in Wisconsin Last Year
A comprehensive study released today suggests how many missing votes can be attributed to the new law. Researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison surveyed registered voters who didn’t cast a 2016 ballot in the state’s two biggest counties—Milwaukee and Dane, which is home to Madison. More than 1 out of 10 nonvoters (11.2 percent) said they lacked acceptable voter ID and cited the law as a reason why they didn’t vote; 6.4 percent of respondents said the voter ID law was the “main reason” they didn’t vote.

The study’s lead author, University of Wisconsin political scientist Kenneth Mayer, says between roughly 9,000 and 23,000 registered voters in the reliably Democratic counties were deterred from voting by the ID law. Extrapolating statewide, he says the data suggests as many as 45,000 voters sat out the election. “We have hard evidence there were tens of thousands of people who were unable to vote because of the voter ID law,” Mayer told me.

The study, which was funded by Dane County Clerk Scott McDonell, provides some of the firmest evidence yet that new restrictions on voting lead to voter disenfranchisement. It’s a strong rebuke to supporters of voter ID laws like Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, who has claimed that the notion the voter ID law reduced participation is a “load of crap.” (Wisconsin saw its lowest turnout since 2000, and there were 41,000 fewer voters in Milwaukee compared with 2012.)

After the study’s release, McDonell and Milwaukee County Clerk George Christenson joined together in calling for an immediate suspension of the law. “It is completely unacceptable that thousands of voters were deterred from exercising their sacred right to vote due to this law. Citizens’ basic belief in their democracy is seriously eroded when those in power target some for exclusion from self-government,” said McDonell.

Mayer and Michael DeCrescenzo, the University of Wisconsin Ph.D. candidate who co-authored the report, didn’t ask those surveyed who they would’ve voted for, so it’s impossible to know if these thousands of lost voters might’ve tipped the election, but other studies—like a 2014 one by the Government Accountability Office—have found that voter ID laws disproportionately reduced turnout among voters of color, young voters, and newly registered voters, who were more likely to support Democrats. “If you were to re-run the election over without the voter ID requirement, would the outcome have been different? Possibly,” Mayer said.

The study also found socioeconomic and racial disparities among those impacted by the new law. “The burdens of voter ID fell disproportionately on low-income and minority populations,” writes Mayer. More than 20 percent of registrants coming from homes with incomes less than $25,000 say they were kept from voting by the law; 8.3 percent of white voters surveyed were deterred, compared with 27.5 percent of African Americans.
posted by chris24 at 4:20 AM on September 26 [74 favorites]


Jeff Sessions is giving a talk at Georgetown U about free speech, and some faculty and students who were expected to protest have been disinvited.

Irony n' stuff
posted by angrycat at 4:31 AM on September 26 [13 favorites]


A new way to disenfranchise the poor:
First require IDs to vote, then take away IDs for failure to pay outrageous court fees.
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:43 AM on September 26 [52 favorites]


Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny take a knee in support of the protests.
posted by chris24 at 4:46 AM on September 26 [33 favorites]


who offered a barrel of pork
to every deplorable
turns out he's horrible
can't read or write and won't work
posted by flabdablet at 5:11 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


From Collins' statement: "if Senators can adjust a funding formula over a weekend to help a single state, they could just as easily adjust that formula in the future to hurt that state."

I think we're going to see a lot of that in the coming years - gangs of elected officials punishing their political opponents by directly targeting their constituencies. Which is so UTTERLY BEYOND BELIEF that I would not have thought it possible before this year, even as hardened to incredulity as I was, but 2017 man what are you gonna do.

We are all hostages at this point.
posted by winna at 5:12 AM on September 26 [41 favorites]


Haven't seen this posted here yet: NFL Hall of Famer Shannon Sharpe takes one more step in the NFL protest discussion -- calling out people who are willing to stand up to Trump when he criticizes and insults protesting players, but weren't willing to stand up to him when he showed his racism, his misogyny, his bigotry, his greed, etc. in the past.
posted by penduluum at 5:28 AM on September 26 [40 favorites]


Come on, Mueller.
posted by yoga at 5:45 AM on September 26 [16 favorites]


The entire Dallas Cowboys team, including the super-Trumpnik owner, just went to the middle of the field and took a knee before (but not during) the national anthem. They still got booed, of course.

Grr that was such a bullshit copout. That is what it looks like when your protest gets corporatized.
posted by LizBoBiz at 5:51 AM on September 26 [17 favorites]


I propose New Puerto Rico between Youngstown and Pittsburgh,

This is actually not the craziest idea, considering that about 3% of the residents of Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) are Puerto Rican or of Puerto Rican descent. (2010 data) And as of the 2000 census, about 4% of Youngstown. IOW, if Puerto Ricans are forced to leave the island in droves, it's pretty likely a whole bunch will wind up in Northeast Ohio, because there's already a significant population here. So move your "new Puerto Rico" slightly west, and that's a thing that could conceivably happen.

Or, rather, a big influx of pissed off Puerto Ricans flips Ohio Democrat again in the next election.
posted by soundguy99 at 5:52 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]


on the immigration restriction ratchet/racket...
1/OK, here's a quick thread about the futility of trying to bargain with immigration restrictionists.
2/There's an idea making the rounds that Dems have become unreasonable on immigration. Open borders extremists.
3/Many Dems and liberals are reasonable sorts, who like to stake out a sensible middle ground. So this argument is attractive to some.
4/But over the past few years, it has become apparent that immigration restrictionists are not good-sized bargaining partners.
5/At first, it was "Secure the border!" Well, Obama secured the border.
6/Meanwhile, net illegal immigration ended even before Obama took office.
7/No. "Deport anyone here who came illegally!" became the new rallying cry. Zero net illegal immigration wasn't enough for these guys.
8/OK, so how about ppl who were brought here as kids? You don't want to punish minors as adults, do you? "End DACA! Deport the Dreamers!"
9/OK, so how about LEGAL immigration? That's good, right? "Immigrants take American jobs! RAISE Act! End family reunification immigration!"
10/What about skilled immigration? Republicans like that, right? "Asian tech workers aren't loyal to America!"
11/Everybody get the joke now? These people have no intention of bargaining.
12/They do not want a sensible centrist solution. They do not actually care about the rule of law, or job competition, or whatever.
13/The restrictionists want a return to the system of 1924. They want a policy of white immigration only.
14/Talk to them, and this quickly becomes apparent. They can't stop talking about how great the 1924 system was.
15/Why should liberals or Democrats bargain with a white-nationalist movement? What is to be gained from rhetorical concessions?
16/Open borders is unrealistic and would have big problems. But why not advocate it, when the other side wants a white racial nation?
17/Democrats didn't get extreme on immigration. They just woke up. (end)
more...
"1 different-looking person is a guest. 100 are an invasion. 1000 are just the neighbors."
posted by kliuless at 5:55 AM on September 26 [45 favorites]


That is what it looks like when your protest gets corporatized.

And it didn't work, either. The line was specifically drawn by Trump as "kneeling bad, linking arms good", and apparently it didn't even matter that it was before the anthem. I haven't seen anyone who was anti-kneeling supporting the Cowboys' jerryfied version.
posted by Etrigan at 5:55 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Grr that was such a bullshit copout

They watered down the protest so much Jerry freakin' Jones felt comfortable joining in and they still got booed. They will only accept shut up and know your place.
posted by cmfletcher at 5:56 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]


Was reading the wiki entry for the United States Football League, when I saw this:
In 2014, after founding owner Ralph Wilson (of the NFL's Buffalo Bills) died, Trump tried to purchase the Bills, but was largely rebuffed in favor of Terry Pegula due to his past ties to the USFL; Trump's failure to purchase the Bills was a major factor in his ultimately successful decision to run for President of the United States the next year.[FoxSports Article]
Trump was not what anyone would call a model owner when he owned a USFL franchise.
posted by ZeusHumms at 5:57 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


anastasiav, thank you for pointing out that crappy rule change. I just posted a public comment (only #3!) on it, as follows:
The move to alter the Privacy Act of 1974; System of Records by including the social media profiles of immigrants, including permanent residents and naturalized citizens, is an overreach by DHS and an invasion of privacy. I am a natural-born citizen, and so exempt from this change, as things stand today. But I don't doubt that a move will be made to expand this in very short order, despite constitutional protections against it AND a lack of any clear reason to do so. Those same protection should extend to permanent residents and naturalized citizens, because they are CITIZENS of the United States.
posted by wenestvedt at 5:58 AM on September 26 [12 favorites]


So what is Roger Stone going on about? He's answering questions of the House Intelligence Committee behind closed doors? Why is he so happy about this? Also, he's really fucking insane, right? I feel like I'm arriving at this knowledge a bit late.
posted by angrycat at 5:59 AM on September 26 [4 favorites]


basically we're living in the worst-case-scenario timeline that slashdot predicted in the 90s
posted by entropicamericana at 6:01 AM on September 26 [13 favorites]


Someone needs to point out to Republicans that a mere 115,000 Puerto Ricans moving to Florida will swing that state Democrat permanently, since their votes suddenly count as soon as they hit the mainland

Is it possible that they could even register to vote in other states; possibly as a sort of virtual lodger to people volunteering their address/assistance?

basically we're living in the worst-case-scenario timeline that slashdot predicted in the 90s

Trump, naked and petrified covered in hot grits, with a penis-hummingbird?
posted by Buntix at 6:10 AM on September 26 [8 favorites]


entropicamericana: basically we're living in the worst-case-scenario timeline that slashdot predicted in the 90s

OMG, it's the new Hellmouth?? Come back, Jon Katz, all is forgiven!
posted by wenestvedt at 6:12 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


"I'm deeply amused by how many people think a descendant of enslaved people is going to fetishize the flag over actual freedom. ": Stolen people on stolen land

[twitter thread by @Karnythia]
posted by Buntix at 6:26 AM on September 26 [24 favorites]


I get the temptation, guys, but Puerto Ricans aren't kittens looking to be rehomed. They need aid, not relocation.
posted by Trifling at 6:32 AM on September 26 [50 favorites]


Can we stop believing the generals are on our side now?

@DefenseBaron (DefenseOne, NBC)
McMaster: "There's nobody there to control the pres or 'keep him on the reservation.' We're there to serve the pres & advance his agenda"
posted by chris24 at 6:33 AM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Thousands of people got temporarily relocated during Katrina (which eventually just become permanent) because dealing with a humanitarian crisis while simultaneously redeveloping an entire city was nearly impossible. This is the same thing, except its 3 million people and an entire island. So exponentially more difficult. I'd bet that hundreds of thousands of people leave at the bare minimum.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:37 AM on September 26 [14 favorites]


Can we stop believing the generals are on our side now?

I mean, I think that they would be spectacularly bad at their job of pulling the President - this President - back from the brink if they were publicly admitting that is what they were doing, so no, I don't think that's very indicative.
posted by corb at 6:38 AM on September 26 [13 favorites]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 91-95

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60
61-65
66-70
71-75
76-80
81-85
86-90

===

91st District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Gordon Helsel (incumbent)
D cand: Michael Wade

Norfolk, 70.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011 special. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 53-42.

===

92nd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Jeion Ward (incumbent)

Hampton, 31.4% white. Incumbent first elected in 2003. No R candidate in 2013 or 2015. Clinton won district 76-20.

===

93rd District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: Heather Cordasco
D cand: Michael Mullin (incumbent)

Williamsburg, 65.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2016 special. D won 52-48 in 2013, 55-45 in 2015, and 54-46 in 2016 special. Clinton won district 57-38. Ballotpedia Race to Watch and Flippable Defend district.

===

94th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: David Yancey (incumbent)
D cand: Shelly Simonds

Newport News, 67.8% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. R won 51-49 in 2013 and 58-42 in 2015.. Clinton won district 50-44. There is a Libertarian candidate. Flippable Potential district.

===

95th District
Currently Dem seat
R cand: none
D cand: Marcia Price (incumbent)

Hampton, 29.6% white. Incumbent first elected in 2015. D won 77-23 in 2013, no R candidate in 2015. Clinton won district 73-23.

===

Next time: 96-100
posted by Chrysostom at 6:41 AM on September 26 [24 favorites]


Also bear in mind that US generals have experience of a subculture where healthcare and social care are actually relatively reliably supplied by the local government.
posted by jaduncan at 6:42 AM on September 26 [9 favorites]


Can we stop believing the generals are on our side now?

I have said pretty much this exact thing about three different bosses I had in the military. Each of them was an accomplished leader of soldiers who was damn good at his job. That doesn't mean I didn't have to manage them in some way or another, nor does it mean I would ever have admitted it at the time.
posted by Etrigan at 6:43 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]


I'm a fan of every time a big media outlet uses the real term. White supremacist rather than white nationalist or alt-right. Racist vs racially charged. Liar vs false claims.

WaPo: If Trump’s not a white supremacist, he does a good impression
posted by chris24 at 6:55 AM on September 26 [18 favorites]



THAT IS A FUCKING LIE, MAGGIE, AND YOU KNOW IT. The information was retroactively classified, it wasn't classified at the time.
From your link,
More than 2,000 of the 30,490 emails Clinton turned over to the State Department contained classified information, including 110 emails in 52 email chains that contained classified information at the time they were sent or received. (Most emails were retroactively deemed to contain classified information by the U.S. agencies from which the information originated.)

...

“[S]everal thousand work-related emails” were not turned over to the State Department in 2014, but were recovered by the FBI. Comey said “three of those were classified at the time they were sent or received.”
posted by roystgnr at 6:56 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]


I just posted a public comment (only #3!) on it, as follows:

So, this morning, despite a couple of people here saying they commented and knowing some folks on my FB who commented, the page still shows only two public comments. Moderation queue? Or something more sinister.....

Can we stop believing the generals are on our side now?

Prior to January, I would not have said anything positive about John Kelley, but I do believe, in my heart of hearts, that he's doing what he can to stand between us and Armageddon. And that's all I can ask, really. I believe John Kelley is a patriot who loves the Constitution more than he loves Donald Trump. If that means he's "on our side" well, then, so be it.
posted by anastasiav at 6:58 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


Is this the "classified information" sent FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT to Huma's account then forwarded to HRC? Seems the bad actor would be the guys in the State Department ops center.

The State Department has copies on file, btw...
posted by mikelieman at 7:00 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


The information was retroactively classified, it wasn't classified at the time.

*a hundred comments of fighting about classification and how it works, comments running a wide range between highly informed and poorly informed*
*a hundred comments about why the way classification works is stupid*
*a bottle of alcohol for the poor mods who have to clean it up*

This has been your daily Condensed Comments for improved mod sanity.
posted by corb at 7:01 AM on September 26 [44 favorites]


[Hello from the worst timeline, where things are so very bad, and the only ray of light is that we never ever fight about HER EMAILs again.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:02 AM on September 26 [69 favorites]


Butter Emails
posted by kirkaracha at 7:07 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


I believe John Kelley is a patriot who loves the Constitution more than he loves Donald Trump. If that means he's "on our side" well, then, so be it.

The problem isn't always the generals who amass power to control an incompetent and dangerous head of state. The problem is the generals who, years from now, decide they don't want to give up any of that power.
posted by Behemoth at 7:10 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


the only ray of light is that we never ever fight about HER EMAILs again

But can we argue about Gerald R Ford and the problems with her EMALS?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:10 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]


The, uh, National Review just came out swinging on the NFL protests.
These ideals were articulated in the Declaration of Independence, codified in the Constitution, and defended with the blood of patriots. Central to them is the First Amendment, the guarantee of free expression against government interference and government reprisal that has made the United States unique among the world’s great powers. Arguably, it is the single most important liberty of all, because it enables the defense of all the others: Without the right to speak freely we cannot even begin to point out offenses against the rest of the Constitution.

Now, with that as a backdrop, which is the greater danger to the ideals embodied by the American flag, a few football players’ taking a knee at the national anthem or the most powerful man in the world’s demanding that they be fired and their livelihoods destroyed for engaging in speech he doesn’t like?
posted by corb at 7:12 AM on September 26 [143 favorites]


This is the same thing, except its 3 million people and an entire island.

It's also possible leverage. Whilst it shouldn't be, the Puerto Rican government debt crisis is way too real, and as it happens Trump himself played a part in adding $33 mil to it (although as Politifact notes, he didn't cause it, he just made $900k or so profit before cashing out via bankruptcy and externalising the debt).

It seems spectacularly unlikely that Trump, the voting majority of the quasi-parliamentary branches, or PR's creditors are going to do the right thing and write off the debt and rebuild the infrastructure enough to give people there a fighting chance.

The more barrels they can be put over the better.
posted by Buntix at 7:22 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


AFAICT, the National Review has been driven to gibbering schizophrenia over the last two years, since, on the one hand, Hillary and pretty much any Democrat are harbingers of doom that will bring about The End Of Civilization As We Know It, and on the other hand Trump is an unavoidably horrible person who well might start WW3 and isn't even really a true conservative. Hell, the same issue has an article claiming that the NFL players are wrong wrong wrongity wrong. So . . . . . I suppose they get a little credit for even being willing to publish anti-Trump pieces, but not a lot.
posted by soundguy99 at 7:24 AM on September 26 [8 favorites]


I'd like to point out a profound difference with Dale Earnhart Jr's protest with NASCAR and that of the NFL players. There are only four black NASCAR drivers, whereas NFL is around 75% black. Losing the NFL is one thing, but losing NASCAR? That's a white man's sport.
posted by adept256 at 7:24 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]




fluttering hellfire: What's the story with Murray and Alexander? Is there an ELI5 on that?

Republican senators ditch bipartisan health care talks (Tami Luhby, CNN, September 19, 2017)
A bipartisan group of senators has failed to reach an agreement on stabilizing Obamacare in 2018.

Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander, who chaired a set of health committee hearings with Democratic Sen. Patty Murray of Washington, said Tuesday that the effort to craft a "limited, bipartisan plan" to take to Senate leaders by the end of September had come to a standstill.

"During the last month, we have worked hard and in good faith, but have not found the necessary consensus among Republicans and Democrats to put a bill in the Senate leaders' hands that could be enacted," Alexander said in a statement.

Murray said she regretted Alexander's decision, noting the group had identified "significant common ground" and that she had agreed to give states additional flexibility over how they implement Obamacare.

The halt comes as Republicans have revived an effort to repeal Obamacare before the end of the month, when their authority to pass a bill with a simple majority ends. The White House has launched a full-court press backing a bill authored by Sens. Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy that would dismantle major provisions of the health reform law and overhaul Medicaid.
That's right, the White House picked Graham/Cassidey/Santorum/Clown Car of Idiots over a bipartisan effort to amend ACA. Remember this the next time the angry orange or any other GOP assholes say "maybe we could try to work with the Democrats and fix this." THAT EFFORT STARTED, THEN YOU ABORTED IT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE IDEA OF KEEPING ANYTHING FROM OBAMA.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:27 AM on September 26 [45 favorites]


That National Review piece is a flaming pile of dogshit. Nearly everything argument in it is wrong, predicated on the nonsense version of "free speech" that means anyone can say anything they want without any repercussions.

Trump's intervention is an actual attempt by the government to stifle free speech, so it qualifies. But the other examples in French's piece are bizarro Sarah Palin versions of free speech, where bigotry is protected:
How many leftists who were yelling “free speech” yesterday are only too happy to sic the government on the tiny few bakers or florists who don’t want to use their artistic talents to celebrate events they find offensive?
and where anyone has a right to a platform at any time, no matter how much hate they incite:
How many progressives who celebrated the First Amendment on Sunday sympathize with college students who chant “speech is violence” and seek to block conservatives from college campuses?
No, David French and The National Review, I don't want you on my side with this if you're going to conflate actual instances of violating peoples' right to free speech with bullshit ones where there is no government intervention, or where there is lawful government intervention.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:28 AM on September 26 [27 favorites]


with a mouth like a butthole uncorked.
And his oral effluent
brought so many recruits
that the R's bought and drank by the quart.
posted by perspicio at 7:29 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


They watered down the protest so much Jerry freakin' Jones felt comfortable joining in and they still got booed. They will only accept shut up and know your place.

Worth pointing out that the Cowboys did their protest on the road in Arizona. It's every American's God-given right and duty to boo the Cowboys at every opportunity.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:30 AM on September 26 [17 favorites]


This morning NPR talked to some football fans about their takes on the protests. One Trumpy guy went on an on about how these players "who make millions of dollars" shouldn't be protesting. He kept coming back to how wealthy the players (allegedly) are.

I think the word he wanted was "uppity."
posted by workerant at 7:32 AM on September 26 [27 favorites]


@Garrett Haake (MSNBC): "Just asked Sen. @lisamurkowski about how she will vote on Graham/Cassidy. Her response: 'I don't believe we are going to have a vote.'"

shaaaaade
posted by murphy slaw at 7:32 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


MrGuilt: Plus, as someone noted, it gives us some insight into his id. It gives him enough rope to hang himself with.

The problem with rope is that it's multi-purpose. While it seems that Trump could be making plenty of rope with his Twitter proclamations and ranting, instead of a noose, it looks like he's making a rather comfortable hammock, which will hold him as long as the GOP control the house and senate, like two sturdy supports that could actually fail within the next year or two.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:33 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


AP News: Ivanka Trump’s business ties shrouded in secrecy in China
In the months since she took her White House role, public information about the companies importing Ivanka Trump goods to the U.S. has become harder to find. Information that once routinely appeared in private trade tracking data has vanished, leaving the identities of companies involved in 90 percent of shipments unknown. Even less is known about her manufacturers. Trump’s brand, which is still owned by the first daughter and presidential adviser, declined to disclose the information.

The deepening secrecy means it’s unclear who Ivanka Trump’s company is doing business with in China, even as she and her husband, Jared Kushner, have emerged as important conduits for top Chinese officials in Washington. The lack of disclosure makes it difficult to understand whether foreign governments could use business ties with her brand to try to influence the White House — and whether her company stands to profit from foreign government subsidies that can destroy American jobs. Such questions are especially pronounced in China, where state-owned and state-subsidized companies dominate large swaths of commercial activity.
...
There used to be more visibility. Last year, 27 percent of the companies that exported Ivanka Trump merchandise to the U.S. were identified in Panjiva’s records, and back in 2014 a full 95 percent were named. For two of Ivanka Trump’s licensees — G-III Apparel Group Ltd. and Marc Fisher Footwear — the number of shipments appears to plunge in 2015, likely because they “requested to hide” their shipment activity, according to Panjiva records. Neither company responded to AP’s questions.

The brand declined to comment on the growing murkiness of its supply chain.
...
Ivanka Trump’s brand said it was in the process of reviewing its supply chains with the help of “independent experts whose mission it is to advance human rights” and emphasized that all licensees, manufacturers, subcontractors and suppliers are required to abide by the law, as well as ethical practices set forth in a vendor code of conduct.

The AP asked to see the code of conduct, but the brand declined to share it.
The slightly-buried lede here is that Ivanka's business in China has grown increasingly hidden, when it was not before, and that her business might be dealing with Chinese government owned or operated businesses by using third-party cutouts -- that is, by contracting with a private entity that in turn contracts with the government or a government-supported business, Ivanka can then claim to not be doing business with the Chinese government...while she works withing the United States government and has input into American trade practices.
posted by cjelli at 7:34 AM on September 26 [44 favorites]


Antonio Olivo, WaPo:
Just in case voters in one of the country’s hottest political races think the contest is just about traffic and jobs, Virginia Democrat Danica Roem has put her transgender status front and center in a new ad meant to attack her Republican opponent, Del. Robert G. Marshall, for refusing to acknowledge her as a woman.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:36 AM on September 26 [30 favorites]


I think we're going to see a lot of that in the coming years - gangs of elected officials punishing their political opponents by directly targeting their constituencies. Which is so UTTERLY BEYOND BELIEF that I would not have thought it possible before this year, even as hardened to incredulity as I was, but 2017 man what are you gonna do.

Bridgegate much?
posted by Melismata at 7:37 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]


That's right, the White House picked Graham/Cassidey/Santorum/Clown Car of Idiots over a bipartisan effort to amend ACA.

Of course. Because any bipartisan effort will start with like 47 GOP nays no matter what it says. So there is no way the Dems will sign off on health care legislation cruel enough to get GOP votes, and no way the Repubs would allow a nicer proposal to come to the floor under any circumstances.

Republicans know that actively fucking over their own base is LESS damaging to their reelection chances than cooperating with Democrats in any way.
posted by delfin at 7:40 AM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Kristine Phillips, WaPo: A Trump judicial pick said transgender children are proof that ‘Satan’s plan is working’
Before Jeff Mateer became President Trump’s nominee for federal judgeship in Texas, he fought a local ordinance extending equal protections to members of the LGBT community and said the separation of church and state does not exist in the Constitution.

But likely his most controversial statements were made in two 2015 speeches, in which he said transgender children are proof that “Satan’s plan is working” and same-sex marriage is a harbinger for “disgusting” practices such as polygamy and bestiality. He also appeared to advocate gay conversion therapy, a discredited practice banned by a handful of states and condemned by human rights and medical groups.
Only the best people.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:42 AM on September 26 [44 favorites]


Tom Ley, Deadspin: This Is All Bullshit
For as much as the events of the past weekend were framed as Trump going to war with the NFL, our bum of a president did Roger Goodell and the league a huge favor. All they had to do was release a few limp-dick statements tsk-tsking Trump’s comments for their divisiveness, come up with a few meaningless shows of pseudo-solidarity like we saw in Dallas last night, and poof: Suddenly the anthem protests aren’t about a very specific set of problems plaguing this country, but about “unity,” a cause more hollow than anything 25 branding execs could ever dream up in a conference room. Roger Goodell is on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Colin Kaepernick isn’t.

The worst irony here may be the way the NFL’s new marketing initiative not only appropriates the protests, but perverts their meaning. Kaepernick’s protest and the ones that followed were divisive, and were meant to be: That was the point, to ask people to choose sides, and to direct their attention to what’s going on in the real world beyond sports. Goodell and the owners, in asking everyone to come together around the cause of the NFL itself, have done what they always do, and made what they’ve touched cheaper and smaller.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:44 AM on September 26 [72 favorites]


This morning NPR talked to some football fans about their takes on the protests. One Trumpy guy went on an on about how these players "who make millions of dollars" shouldn't be protesting. He kept coming back to how wealthy the players (allegedly) are.

I think the word he wanted was "uppity."


It's another display of the conservative belief in individualism against [everything else]. You, personally, are rich, so why are you complaining about inequality? You, personally, have a Black friend--so there is 0% chance you are racist. Also, reverse racism is real, because nothing is systemic.

The same logic behind attacks on Bernie Sanders and Al Gore (to say nothing of those on HRC and Obama)--oh, look at these big environmentalists and social justice warriors in their big houses and fancy travel! If they really cared about poverty and the environment, they'd donate it all and wear rags.

It's a worldview that doesn't understand (or want to understand) how things work on a large scale. Everything is personal, nothing is political.
posted by witchen at 7:46 AM on September 26 [43 favorites]


Note Lamar!'s statement:

"During the last month, we have worked hard and in good faith, but have not found the necessary consensus among Republicans and Democrats to put a bill in the Senate leaders' hands that could be enacted," Alexander said in a statement.

Emphasis mine. Whether or not anyone on that panel took it at all seriously is open to debate, but they all knew from the start that nothing passable could possibly emerge.

Even if a Quixotic quest to build a Dems+Collins+Murkowski+whoever coalition of 51 somehow succeeded, imagine Yertle letting it on the floor. Or it getting sixty in the Senate to pass cloture. Or passing the House. Or overriding Trump's veto. By that point it's more likely that aliens will land and pass out magical healing ray guns.
posted by delfin at 7:50 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]


tonycpsu: Dallas Sportscaster On NFL Players Taking A Knee: "All Of Us Should Protest How Black Americans Are Treated In This Country"

Sadly, he's one of the few, very outspoken sportscasters I recognize, and I don't follow sports at all. Dale Hansen is a national treasure:
- Deadspin: Dale Hansen Blasts The Cowboys For Signing Greg Hardy (who has a record of domestic violence);
- Deadspin: Dale Hansen Destroys Silly Opposition To Michael Sam In The NFL (NFL prospect who came out as gay, but would make things "uncomfortable" in the NFL, unlike the number of NFL players who players have been charged with drunk driving, rape, and domestic violence and continue to play);
- USA Today, High School Sports: Texas sportscaster Dale Hansen on transgender wrestler debate: 'Mack Beggs is not the problem';
- WFAA: Hansen Unplugged: Art Briles has failed women of Baylor

Also, in 1987, Hansen was honored with the George Foster Peabody Award for Distinguished Journalism. That same year, he won the duPont-Columbia Award for his contribution to the investigation of SMU's football program. As a result of this investigation, the NCAA prohibited SMU from fielding a football program in 1987. (With auto-playing video to show how much of a down-to-earth Texan Hansen is, with no attention to his actual reporting -_- ... at least he gets some good doggo time on screen :))
posted by filthy light thief at 7:51 AM on September 26 [45 favorites]


Maggie Haberman gonna Maggie Haberman, Nate Silver edition.
posted by lalex at 7:52 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


Christ, she's fucking awful.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:54 AM on September 26 [13 favorites]


15/Why should liberals or Democrats bargain with a white-nationalist movement? What is to be gained from rhetorical concessions?
16/Open borders is unrealistic and would have big problems. But why not advocate it, when the other side wants a white racial nation?
17/Democrats didn't get extreme on immigration. They just woke up. (end)


I'm all for this. Go big or go home. Stake out the most radical position ever, and negotiate down. Obama made a mistake by starting with a sensible bipartisan solution on healthcare, and then watched it get watered down by assholes who ever even voted for it. The folks on the other side effectively have no principles or policy positions, and fail to either argue or negotiate in good faith. Screw reasonable, let's swing for the fences and negotiate down.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY PLATFORM

1. Open Borders
2. Universal Healthcare
3. Free Higher Education
4. Universal Right to Unionize
5. Universal Child Care and Preschool
6. 6 months mandatory paid paternity and maternity leave
7. 4 weeks mandatory paid vacation for every job
8. National minimum wage set at Living wage
9. Sovereign Wealth Fund for petroleum and natural gas proceeds

any more ?
posted by leotrotsky at 8:00 AM on September 26 [78 favorites]


corb: which is the greater danger to the ideals embodied by the American flag, a few football players’ taking a knee at the national anthem or the most powerful man in the world’s demanding that they be fired and their livelihoods destroyed for engaging in speech he doesn’t like?

For what it's worth, he's doing his best to downgrade his current status as "most powerful man in the world" like he tries to down-grade his net worth through terrible investment management. For example: remember when the Trump Bump could lift stocks, as reported back in late April? The Trump bump is running on vapor as of August, with "Investors dialing back expectations for chaotic Trump administration." And even before the April article, Motly Fool reported Bank Stocks Are Over the Trump Bump as "Shares of big banks have underperformed the broader market since the beginning of March."
posted by filthy light thief at 8:00 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


kirkaracha, I'm not sure what that particular tweet had to do with anybody's emails; the tweet features a powerful speech of former NFL player Shannon Sharpe expressing his disappointment in the NFL's owners, who are only now reacting because Trump told the team owners to fire a player or people should boycott the NFL, which might hurt their wallet.

Transcript available on foxsports (but go watch the video).

Here's theroot with more on that video.
posted by fragmede at 8:06 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


oh, look at these big environmentalists and social justice warriors in their big houses and fancy travel! If they really cared about poverty and the environment, they'd donate it all and wear rags.

I've basically been listening to this dude say that repeatedly for the last three hours here at work (but it's Bono, who flies jets to concerts for the environment). I don't think the big picture (one guy forgoing jets/cars/etc. won't make a difference, but someone like Bono (or an NFL player) can raise awareness and make change for everyone).

What they fail to realize is that we have problems--inequality, racism, global warming--that are too big for even a very powerful patron to make a difference on. Especially if the model is "you give it away if you want; I'm taking all I can." Society needs to change. Bono, or Al Gore, or NFL players can help drive everyone to think about the issue, and make change together.
posted by MrGuilt at 8:11 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


The White House press pool reports that Trump will visit Puerto Rico 'to survey the damage,' which is definitely exactly the kind of substantive aid that Puerto Rico needs right now and not just a photo-op for Trump.
posted by cjelli at 8:18 AM on September 26 [28 favorites]


10. WPA 2.0 a massive public works project to rebuild and improve our failing infrastructure, providing millions of jobs to skilled and unskilled workers all across our country. A good job paying a fair wage for any American who's willing to work. Would help to address the increasingly dire straits of those in rural communities.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:19 AM on September 26 [74 favorites]


workerant: This morning NPR talked to some football fans about their takes on the protests. One Trumpy guy went on an on about how these players "who make millions of dollars" shouldn't be protesting. He kept coming back to how wealthy the players (allegedly) are.

I think the word he wanted was "uppity."


Those fans are fooking hilarious. Fun quiz: who is this sports fan talking about when he says: "He's not political, and he has the freedom of speech like we all do." ? If you guessed the President, you're right! How in the world is the Republican president not political? And why the hell do sports players not have that same freedom of speech?

Huh, older white dudes in a sports bar in a red county in red Arizona generally side with the president? You don't say. Odd that NPR didn't venture out to talk to a more diverse sports bar, or maybe sports fans not in a sports bar?
posted by filthy light thief at 8:22 AM on September 26 [20 favorites]


The White House press pool reports that Trump will visit Puerto Rico 'to survey the damage,' which is definitely exactly the kind of substantive aid that Puerto Rico needs right now and not just a photo-op for Trump.

Surely he will also heroically carry a box from one truck to another truck. And on that day truly become President.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:22 AM on September 26 [18 favorites]


Virgina (and New Jersey) Election(s) Serve(s) as First Test of U.S. Voting System Security (NPR, Sept. 25, 2017, with the focus on Virginia in this piece).
Workers here are testing the equipment to make sure it's ready for November. The Virginia Board of Elections this month took the extraordinary step of declaring just weeks before the election that paperless voting machines used here in Falls Church and elsewhere were too insecure and that new equipment had to be purchased immediately.
Emphasis mine - what, no physical record of voting is a bad idea? This is bold news, Virginia! Also, "election watchdog" groups point out that the vote totals need to be audited to ensure there's no vote tampering.

And don't forget, tampering upstream happened in 2016, when Election Hackers Altered Voter Rolls, Stole Private Data (Massimo Calabresi, Time Magazine, June 22, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:27 AM on September 26 [15 favorites]


Tennessee Sen. Lamar Alexander, who chaired a set of health committee hearings with Democratic Sen. Patty Murray of Washington, said Tuesday that the effort to craft a "limited, bipartisan plan" to take to Senate leaders by the end of September had come to a standstill.

This is just another indication of the bad faith of Republicans. There is no reason that a bipartisan plan to fix Obamacare has to be enacted by the end of September because it can get 60 votes. It isn't restricted to a reconciliation deadline.

The fact that they are immediately disbanding the bipartisan discussions as soon as their repeal plan failed indicates that the discussions were fake bipartisanship used for cover. They never had any intention of enacting a bipartisan plan.

I supposed Murray had to go along with this Republican deception or else be labeled obstructionist -- but really, do they have to play their game.
posted by JackFlash at 8:30 AM on September 26 [18 favorites]


but really, do they have to play their game.

I don't see it as playing their game. Rs are giving Ds multiple opportunities to prove that Ds are serious about policy and governing, even from the minority. That Rs are interested in neither becomes more clear every time they have to call their own bluff like this.
posted by Emmy Rae at 8:37 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


Bill Cassidy: The Public Face of a Doomed Health Care Bill [WaPo]

"At what point does a quixotic effort become masochistic?"

"Sadistic" is the word you're looking for, Viebeck. And the answer is "the first time."
posted by aspersioncast at 8:38 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


Rs are giving Ds multiple opportunities to prove that Ds are serious about policy and governing, even from the minority. That Rs are interested in neither becomes more clear every time they have to call their own bluff like this.

You know this. I know this. Anyone looking at the objective facts would know this.

You know who won't know and won't care? The saps who vote Republican. And those who watch news like NPR and NYTimes, which are so obsessed with being "fair and balanced" that they are neither and cannot ever be the "objective" source they want to be.
posted by anem0ne at 8:43 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]


anastasiav So, this morning, despite a couple of people here saying they commented and knowing some folks on my FB who commented, the page still shows only two public comments. Moderation queue? Or something more sinister.....

Moderation queue. The comments will be released in batches at least once a week. This is very common for regulations.gov. It is very rare for a comment not to be released publicly.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 8:44 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


Johnny Wallflower: "Virginia Democrat Danica Roem has put her transgender status front and center in a new ad meant to attack her Republican opponent, Del. Robert G. Marshall, for refusing to acknowledge her as a woman."

Yes, Marshall is almost incomprehensibly awful. Among his achievements, "saying disabilities are a punishment from god for abortion, trying to ban gay service members from the VA National Guard, writing the infamous forced ultrasound bill, physically attempting to stop a mildly pro-immigrant bill from being read, attempting to force teachers to carry guns in school, and most recently, writing a NC style bathroom bill for Virginia that was so toxic it never even saw debate. "
posted by Chrysostom at 8:48 AM on September 26 [24 favorites]




hey look yet another of the best people fooled by an email prankster: Jared Kushner's lawyer, fooled by 'email prankster,' offers window into private email controversy
On Monday, the prankster wrote to Lowell from the email address "kushner.jared@mail.com" asking what he should do with "some correspondence on my private email ... featuring adult content."

"Can I remove these?" the prankster asked.

"Forwarded or received from WH officials?" Lowell wrote in response.

"I think one was forwarded from a White House official, we had discussed a shared interest of sorts. It was unsolicited. Then there are a handful more, but not from officials," said the prankster, still posing as Kushner.

"I need to see I think all emails between you and WH (just for me and us)," Lowell wrote. "We need to send any officials emails to your WH account. Not stuff like you asked about. None of those are going anywhere."

"But we can bury it?" the prankster responded. "I'm so embarrassed. It's fairly specialist stuff, half naked women on a trampoline, standing on legoscenes, the tag for the movie was #standingOnTheLittlePeople :("

Lowell replied: "Don't delete. Don't send to anyone. Let's chat in a bit."
posted by lalex at 8:51 AM on September 26 [66 favorites]


How in the world is the Republican president not political?

For many people, their own politics are "common sense," and only your politics are "politics."

This is why you see people saying "This isn't political!" about things that are very clearly political.
posted by jcreigh at 8:51 AM on September 26 [32 favorites]


So I read the Jeet Heer piece that homunculus linked above and wanted to voice a couple of concerns I have with the McLuhan/Postman approach to analysing media.

My concern with the McLuhan/Postman approach is that the way Heer cites those scholars places literacy at the pinnacle of intellectual achievement, while not not really considering that for most of human history and prehistory, knowledge was transmitted orally. That framework suggests that the oral corpus of Yoruba philosophy or the stories that became the Illiad/Kalevala/the Old Testament are inferior to the permanence offered by textual versions. Sometimes the focus on text and literacy seems a way for some people to sneer at oral cultures as 'primitive' or less sophisticated.

The above argument is not to say that I believe it's hunky-dory that the man in the Oval Office apparently watches hours and hours of television everyday. One of the practical issues is that to be an effective executive, one really needs to be able to take in information at a rate that speech cannot match and that means being able to read long documents covering complex issues.

Consider the following passage:
Working very much in the tradition of McLuhan and Postman, contemporary writers like Nicholas Carr have argued that the rise of the Internet intensifies the move away from print culture with the advent of TV. “The decline in Americans’ newspaper reading began decades ago, when radio and TV began consuming more of peoples’ leisure time, but the Internet has accelerated the trend,” Carr wrote. Many of the problems Carr blames on digital culture—that it makes us more distracted, less focused, and less able to form cohesive linear culture—echo Postman’s account of the impact of television.
It seems that Postman and Carr are making similar arguments about the advent of film and digital media that folks made in the past about textual media. I also question the notion that even during the golden age of print literacy or whatever, a widespread population was especially good at reading highly difficult/challenging works. Also, wtf is a "cohesive linear culture"?

This particular piece is definitely thought provoking, but I think conflating the rise of Donald Trump and digital culture per se is a mistake: It's not necessarily that the medium itself is an inhibitor of critical thought, but that people do not learn good critical thinking skills, which sets them up to be easily exploited in an age of disintermediated media and strong media selection bias. Propaganda is a phenomenon that transcends any particular medium.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 8:52 AM on September 26 [20 favorites]


Maggie Haberman gonna Maggie Haberman, Nate Silver edition. // Christ, she's fucking awful.

I can't remember who tweeted it yesterday about Haberman – Jake Tapper, Yashar Ali, someone who's normally pretty good but wasn't on this – but they said the fact that she gets heat from both sides means she's doing it right. Nope. She gets it from the right because they attack anyone who's not in lockstep with their Nazi agenda. She gets it from the left because she's fucking *wrong* on this. There's a huge difference and no false equivalency no matter how hard she tries.
posted by chris24 at 8:52 AM on September 26 [40 favorites]


the man in the Oval Office apparently watches hours and hours of television everyday

But the people who lost their shit about President Obama doing his NCAA brackets have no objection.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:00 AM on September 26 [20 favorites]


"But we can bury it?" the prankster responded. "I'm so embarrassed. It's fairly specialist stuff, half naked women on a trampoline, standing on legoscenes, the tag for the movie was #standingOnTheLittlePeople :("

And now my dogs think I'm crazy because I'm braying laughter at my computer screen.
posted by RolandOfEld at 9:01 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


Catherine Rampell in the Washington Post: ‘Reasonable’ Republicans are betraying us, too
Trump may be a toddler, we keep telling ourselves, but at least some (comparative) grown-ups on Capitol Hill are thinking things through. Maybe we don’t agree with them all the time; maybe they have a different vision for the role of government than many of us do. Still, at least a few thoughtful, moderate, principled, solutions-oriented people in the legislature are working to offset the White House’s abdication of policy leadership.

The flaming turd that is Cassidy-Graham should disabuse us all of that notion.

What’s been threatening the health-care coverage of tens of millions of Americans isn’t Trump. It’s the entire Republican Party.

This garbage bill, currently looking dead but with a few days left to revive itself, should teach us two things: Republicans don’t care about process, and they don’t care about policy. You could be forgiven for also concluding, as they’ve increasingly suggested this week, that they don’t care about regular Americans, either. [...]

Note that it’s not just the usual tea party crazies pushing for this monstrosity. It’s many supposedly reasonable Republicans, too. These include Republicans such as Sens. Jeff Flake (Ariz.) and Ben Sasse (Neb.), upon whom we’ve heaped loads of praise for their principles and backbone.
Rampell nails it. Donald Trump is a symptom of the plague endemic to the entire Republican Party. They aren't serious about governing or finding real solutions to the problems facing our country, even the so-called moderates like Graham, Flake, and Sasse. The institutional Republican Party is at this point, a white supremacist organization focused on enacting policies that affirm white racial grievance. They are the Sons of the Traitor Jefferson Davis.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:04 AM on September 26 [81 favorites]


You know who won't know and won't care? The saps who vote Republican.

Yeah, I'm just trying to understand the downside here. It's like Pelosi and Schumer making a deal with Trump. They know he doesn't act in good faith, but they haven't promised anything so it doesn't matter if he backs out.

I mean the media is bullshit but they love "bipartisanship" so this seems like a good opportunity for Ds to use that to their advantage.
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:07 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]


The White House press pool reports that Trump will visit Puerto Rico 'to survey the damage,' which is definitely exactly the kind of substantive aid that Puerto Rico needs right now and not just a photo-op for Trump.

An update on this: the initial report was that Trump would visit 'on Tuesday,' and that's now been clarified to be next Tuesday (10/3), not today, as "the earliest I can go because of the first responders and we don't want to disrupt the relief efforts." Which is, on its face, not wrong, but I'd note that Trump visited Texas while Harvey was still ongoing. And while that visit was a photo-op distant from directly affect areas -- a photo-op he should never have made -- it's hard to not draw a parallel and ask whether he's really delaying because he doesn't want to disrupt relief efforts or for some other reasons.


Also, a rush transcript (with possible errors and typos); some excerpts --
*Q: How much money is needed for Puerto Rico?*

POTUS: Puerto Rico needs a lot of money
...We really have, we have worked very, very hard in Puerto Rico. Its very tough because its an island.

Weve gotten A-pluses on Texas and in Florida, and we will also on Puerto Rico. But the difference is this is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. Its a big ocean, its a very big ocean. And were doing a really good job.

We have shipped massive amounts of food and water and supplies to Puerto Rico and we are continuing to do it on an hourly basis. But that island was hit as hard as you could hit. When you see 200 mile-an-hour winds, not even Texas had 200 mile-an-hour winds .. literally houses are just demolished, it was like tornadoes. It was like having hundreds of tornadoes. The winds.

It actually touched down as a Category 5. People have never seen anything like that, and it was dead center Dont forget a week before it had been hit by another hurricane.

So Puerto Rico has tremendous problems with floods and with damage and collapse and were still looking for people.
...
*Q: INAUDBILE QUESTION..*

POTUS: Puerto Rico is very important to me. The people are fantastic people. I grew up in New York, so I know many people from Puerto Rico. I know many Puerto Ricans. And these are great people and we have to help them.

The island is devastated. I read this morning, its literally destroyed. The infrastructure is in bad shape, as you know, in Puerto Rico, before the storm and now in many cases it has no infrastructure. So youre really starting from almost scratch.

These are wonderful people. They are hardy people and they'll be back. But were helping them, I think were really good marks for the work there.

These people are important to all of us.
Puerto Rico is important to Trump because he's met a lot of Puerto Ricans who are great people. Also, did you know that Puerto Rico is an island? And that islands are in the ocean? And that the ocean is very big?
posted by cjelli at 9:07 AM on September 26 [64 favorites]


The, uh, National Review just came out swinging on the NFL protests.

I wouldn't qualify an article that takes great pains to bow at the altar of both-sides-ism and equate employees protesting racial injustice via a symbolic act that does not affect their job performance with a company literally refusing service to gay people as "coming out swinging".
posted by tocts at 9:07 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


I'm an old. I have the flags that draped the coffins of my family who served and died in the American military, and one flag of a friend who had no family who wanted to acknowledge their gay child, and so left it to his friends to celebrate his life.

Before the wars that gave me these flags, I have the oral history of the warriors and nurses who also served in Korea , Vietnam, the trenches of WWII and the Japanese occupation. Before that, we have records going all the way back to the revolutionary war. There is a fort named after one of my ancestors. My people have had a long and sacrificial relationship with this country.

None of those men and women, and the families who support them, sacrificed everything so some bloviating cowardly chickenhawk could sully the presidential office with fascistic demands that POC should be punished for using their constitutional rights.

And while I honor and respect my ancestors who served, this obscene fetishization of soldiers to stifle dissent is unamerican and unforgivable. Soldiers aren't props. They are men and women who do difficult jobs, under difficult conditions, for ridiculously low pay. Some of them have bright and shiny stars in their eyes, but a goodly percentage are there because it's often the best path out of poverty and Podunk USA.

My point is this, nobody gets to speak for me, but me. Nobody gets to speak for Gold Star families, except the families, who are not going to be in lockstep. Everyone should stop fetishism about the flag as though it were synonymous with the military, and as though the military should be respected at some level higher than civilians.

But mostly, mango Mussolini needs to be impeached for the good of all humanity.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:09 AM on September 26 [109 favorites]


It seems that Postman and Carr are making similar arguments about the advent of film and digital media that folks made in the past about textual media. I also question the notion that even during the golden age of print literacy or whatever, a widespread population was especially good at reading highly difficult/challenging works. Also, wtf is a "cohesive linear culture"?

This particular piece is definitely thought provoking, but I think conflating the rise of Donald Trump and digital culture per se is a mistake: It's not necessarily that the medium itself is an inhibitor of critical thought, but that people do not learn good critical thinking skills, which sets them up to be easily exploited in an age of disintermediated media and strong media selection bias. Propaganda is a phenomenon that transcends any particular medium.

posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:52 AM on September 26 [1 favorite +] [!]


I dig what you're saying about oral cultures, but at least as far as the US goes, Postman makes a pretty compelling argument in Amusing Ourselves to Death (which I read for a piece I wrote on Ancient Aliens, lol).

He writes that contemporary writers at the Revolution found Americans to be highly literate, women and men, and de Tocqueville echoed that sentiment in the 1800s. He likewise uses the example of past political speeches (ie Lincoln Douglas debates) to exemplify US literacy and ability to follow long, cohesive, linear arguments; regular people would turn out to listen to hours-long complicated speechifying by two not-THAT-famous legislators. And he argues that that attention span and ability to parse arguments came from dealing in print media that contained long arguments and demanded a healthy attention span.

The idea being that TV, especially "serious" TV, like network/cable news, is the exact opposite. Small bites, lots of music and graphics, little substance.

In anecdotal evidence, my parents, who are pretty smart people, tell me that PBS Newshour is "long-winded," even if they think NBC Nightly is too short to be smart.
posted by TheProfessor at 9:10 AM on September 26 [21 favorites]


I can't remember who tweeted it yesterday about Haberman – Jake Tapper, Yashar Ali, someone who's normally pretty good but wasn't on this – but they said the fact that she gets heat from both sides means she's doing it right.

oh it was Yashar who is one of my favorite people on Twitter but I eyerolled pretty hard at that.
posted by lalex at 9:10 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]


I grew up in New York, so I know many people from Puerto Rico. I know many Puerto Ricans.

Juan Epstein. Great guy, Puerto Rican guy. And people don't know this, but he's also Jewish, believe me. Puerto Rican Jew. So I know many Puerto Ricans and many Jews.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:16 AM on September 26 [14 favorites]


cjelli is that transcript [real]?
posted by yoga at 9:19 AM on September 26


I wouldn't qualify an article that takes great pains to bow at the altar of both-sides-ism and equate employees protesting racial injustice via a symbolic act that does not affect their job performance with a company literally refusing service to gay people as "coming out swinging".

I mean, it is the National Review. In this case, they're like the broken clock that's right, except they're using the French Revolutionary system so it's sorta right, I guess, but not really.
posted by anem0ne at 9:19 AM on September 26


cjelli is that transcript [real]?

[real], barring any typos or errors from the rush transcript. Here's a copy of the (now-released) White House press office transcript, which should be more typographically accurate.
posted by cjelli at 9:21 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Thanks cjelli!
posted by yoga at 9:26 AM on September 26


Eric Reads the News
What a time to be alive! (I have to say that every five minutes to ensure that I am, actually, still alive. You really never know what with Trump and Kim Jong-Un doing their best Feud: Bette and Joan impressions. Like, enough! Neither of you gets the part. Don't call us; we'll call you.)

Actually, that's an insult to Feud. Reality would never make it as a writer on that series. Even Ryan Murphy would be like "He calls him Rocket Man? On television? In front of the U.N.? Get out; that's too extra.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:31 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Maggie Haberman gonna Maggie Haberman, Nate Silver edition. // Christ, she's fucking awful.

And being awful again today, going after Nate. This comeback, even though Nate was the one guy saying Trump could win. And getting attacked for it.

@maggieNYT Retweeted Nate Silver
It's this keen understanding of media and politics that you demonstrated with your own modeling


EDIT: And Yashar is defending her AGAIN. Chiming in on someone's response to her about taking responsibility for her email coverage by saying She never reported on HRC's emails.

Umm, come on dude. Spokesman for Hillary Clinton Offers New Take on Email Issue By Maggie Haberman
posted by chris24 at 9:32 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


Wisconsin voter ID law deterred nearly 17,000 from voting, UW study says
The study by University of Wisconsin-Madison political scientist Ken Mayer concluded 16,800 to 23,250 voters in the two counties — the Democratic strongholds of Wisconsin — did not vote because of the voter ID law.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:33 AM on September 26 [31 favorites]


For those who missed the CNN healthcare debate last night and are curious, as I was, here is a live blog from The Hill.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:40 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]


I will bet hard money that the reason Trump won't be visiting Puerto Rico until next week is because he's a germophobe, and there's nowhere he's willing to stay until then.
posted by corb at 9:50 AM on September 26 [9 favorites]


TheProfessor: He writes that contemporary writers at the Revolution found Americans to be highly literate, women and men, and de Tocqueville echoed that sentiment in the 1800s. He likewise uses the example of past political speeches (ie Lincoln Douglas debates) to exemplify US literacy and ability to follow long, cohesive, linear arguments; regular people would turn out to listen to hours-long complicated speechifying by two not-THAT-famous legislators. And he argues that that attention span and ability to parse arguments came from dealing in print media that contained long arguments and demanded a healthy attention span.

So a couple of points. Jack Lynch, Professor of English at Rutgers, suggests that
Despite the caveats, we can generalize about patterns of literacy. In 1974, University of Montana scholar Kenneth Lockridge’s groundbreaking book, Literacy in Colonial New England, surveyed evidence from legal records and offered provisional conclusions—“The exercise is bound to be tentative, as it uses a biased sample and an ambiguous measure”—but he made the case that, among white New England men, about 60 percent of the population was literate between 1650 and 1670, a figure that rose to 85 percent between 1758 and 1762, and to 90 percent between 1787 and 1795. In cities such as Boston, the rate had come close to 100 percent by century’s end.
This passage notes that literacy was high among white men. The figures for women are much less over the same period: "Lockridge’s figures make the case: while male literacy in New England rose from 60 percent in the late seventeenth century to 90 percent by the early days of the Republic, he estimated female literacy in the same period as rising from 31 percent to 48 percent—roughly half the rate of males." However, Lynch notes later that women did eventually catch up to men and over a much shorter time period. At the same time, enslaved people were not taught to read at high rates--and in fact, literacy tests post-Rebellion were common as a way to disenfranchise Black citizens.

I still fail to see, though, how attendance of the Lincoln-Douglas debates are evidence of textual literacy being necessary to parse long and complex oral arguments. The Greeks and Romans, only the wealthiest of whom were writing speeches down, gave complex speeches to largely orally oriented audiences. This evidence from Greece and Rome suggests that textual literacy is not a precursor to understanding oral argumentation or rhetoric. I understand that I'm taking this out of the strict context of United States history, but I'm having a hard time with the idea that textual literacy is what enables the understanding and analysis of complex oral rhetoric. It seems to me that if people have a history of listening to complex oral rhetoric--that factor is what will help people parse such speeches, not being able to read them on the page.

To bring it back around to the present, though, I think the media selection bias issue is part of what can make parsing other arguments very difficult. If a group of people all have very different sources of information that use different vocabularies, coming to a consensus of anyone's argumentation style is going to be difficult. If you go read r/t_d, they developed a whole subset of language to make their points which can obscure the meaning to outsiders and not because outsiders lack an attention span to parse their argumentation.

Very interesting topic all around though.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:50 AM on September 26 [15 favorites]


Trump won't set foot on Puerto Rico. He can't be bothered to get dirty & as corb said he's a germophobe. He'll just fly over in a helicopter, have a photo shot with PR destruction in the background and whizz off.
posted by yoga at 10:00 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]


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posted by tilde at 10:03 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


I still fail to see, though, how attendance of the Lincoln-Douglas debates are evidence of textual literacy being necessary to parse long and complex oral arguments. The Greeks and Romans, only the wealthiest of whom were writing speeches down, gave complex speeches to largely orally oriented audiences. This evidence from Greece and Rome suggests that textual literacy is not a precursor to understanding oral argumentation or rhetoric. I understand that I'm taking this out of the strict context of United States history, but I'm having a hard time with the idea that textual literacy is what enables the understanding and analysis of complex oral rhetoric. It seems to me that if people have a history of listening to complex oral rhetoric--that factor is what will help people parse such speeches, not being able to read them on the page.

To bring it back around to the present, though, I think the media selection bias issue is part of what can make parsing other arguments very difficult. If a group of people all have very different sources of information that use different vocabularies, coming to a consensus of anyone's argumentation style is going to be difficult. If you go read r/t_d, they developed a whole subset of language to make their points which can obscure the meaning to outsiders and not because outsiders lack an attention span to parse their argumentation.

Very interesting topic all around though.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:50 AM on September 26 [+] [!]


Yeah that rings pretty much right to me. Hm. Could be that the form or content of Homeric or Yoruba or Athenian oral argument/exposition is really what's at issue, instead of oral versus written.

Plus on my or our side, there's always that confirmation bias, right. TV hasn't made me dumb, it's made all those other [Fox News watching] people dumb.
posted by TheProfessor at 10:08 AM on September 26 [4 favorites]


NYT: Nearly Half of Americans Don’t Know Puerto Ricans Are Fellow Citizens
Many Americans don’t realize that what happened in Puerto Rico is a domestic disaster, not a foreign one. A new poll of 2,200 adults by Morning Consult found that only 54 percent of Americans know that people born in Puerto Rico, a commonwealth of the United States, are U.S. citizens.
You can practically picture the internal monologue about needing to include the aside about Puerto Rico being a commonwealth, since this might surprise half the readers.
posted by cjelli at 10:18 AM on September 26 [38 favorites]


One Trumpy guy went on an on about how these players "who make millions of dollars" shouldn't be protesting.

I will never understand this line of thinking. How poor does one have to be to criticize America? So if those NFL players quit, can they have a contrary opinion about this great nation? No, they still have residual money, so no way? Ok, if they give up all their money and become homeless are they allowed to speak out? Still no, because they live here, right? If they hate it so much, why don't they leave? Oh, ok, so if they move to another country, can they now have an opinion about America? Of course not. They're not even Americans.

They will always move the bar. There is no way to win with them.
posted by greermahoney at 10:21 AM on September 26 [32 favorites]


54%? Honestly I'm kind of surprised it's that high.

I wonder what percentage of Americans think that Canadians are US citizens.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:21 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


How poor does one have to be to criticize America?

well, not too poor obviously, because they are just lazy and need to try harder and they deserve it anyway
posted by entropicamericana at 10:24 AM on September 26 [8 favorites]


Interesting piece that ties together the topics of healthcare and Hurricane Maria:

David Anderson, Balloon Juice: Medicaid and emergent care under block grants
Roughly half of everyone living in Puerto Rico has health insurance through Medicaid. Medicaid is obligated to pay for medically necessary care in an emergency even if the hospital is not in the provider network. The doctor in this clip is making a recommendation that anyone who needs significant care and whose family can find a way to get them off the island to go to the mainland. [...]

The prices that will be charged will be far higher than the prices hospitals on the island charge to Medicaid. So each given unit of service will be a more expensive unit of service and a higher proportion of the fixed budget of the Medicaid program.

Block grants don’t work when there is a large shock that needs an immediate response.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:25 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]




Regarding increasing public illiteracy and poor reasoning skills - a few years ago, WaPo had an article about 8th Grade graduation exam from 1912. Handful of questions (one from each area, and a handful of spelling words):
  • Spelling words: conscious, vinegar, autumn, scissors, benefit
  • A man bought a farm for $2400 and sold it for $2700. What per cent did he gain?
  • Locate these cities: Mobile, Quebec, Buenos Aires, Liverpool, Honolulu.
  • What is a Personal Pronoun? Decline I.
  • Define Cerebrum; Cerebellum.
  • Name five county officers, and the principal duties of each.
  • Give the cause of the war of 1812 and name an important battle fought during that war.
How many current high school grads can't locate DC, NYC, LA, and Denver on a map of the US? How many would answer "300" to the question about per cent? How many can name one county officer... and how many could name that many before Kim Davis? How many can name a single important battle from WWII?

I understand the reasons for shifting school from regurgitation of rote facts, and that the 8th grade education standards in 1912 were designed entirely for white boys who weren't being pushed into labor to support their families. But school standards haven't just shifted to allow more diversity; they've outright dropped any specific educational standards in most cases.

The fun part (and by "fun" I mean "despair-inducing") is going through the list of questions and wondering if our current president could answer a single one of them correctly.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:50 AM on September 26 [7 favorites]


I bet he can spell "scissors" 90% of the time.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:52 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


what in the actual fuck, Maggie Haberman (to Nate Silver): "Things are always more nuanced and complicated than your trolling tweets of your former employer. That's the point"

is there some weird backstory here?
posted by lalex at 10:52 AM on September 26 [14 favorites]


Of course Yertle isn't regular. He looks like he hasn't taken a shit in a month.
posted by delfin at 10:53 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]


Josh Marshall, TPM: What Is White Supremacy?
Jon Chait has a new article about the definition of ‘white supremacy’. It caught my attention when I saw Chait and Adam Serwer of The Atlantic debating Chait’s argument on Twitter.

I wanted to share a few thoughts on the question. [...]

I’m largely on Serwer’s side of this argument. ‘White supremacist’ is a word most of us associate with men demanding ‘white rights’, hurling terrible epithets at black people and creating an atmosphere of violence and menace. But a lot of that is atmospherics and tactics. The real definition has to be something like Serwer’s who suggests a “general definition of white supremacist is someone who believes white people are entitled to political and cultural hegemony.”

That is after all the literal definition, the meaning of the phrase.

But we should recognize that these definitions are being contested because the ground underneath our feet is in fact moving. Those who champion racial justice and equal rights – not just African-Americans and other non-whites but from people of color with an intrinsically greater urgency – are fed up with a definitional taxonomy in which lots of people can duck the obloquy merited by their beliefs and actions by simply declining to sign on to them explicitly. I also get Chait’s point, that it may not be productive or accurate to class everyone in these totalizing terms. Donald Trump and Jeff Sessions are definitely different from David Duke. But – and I say this slightly jokingly but mainly in earnest – maybe we should call Sessions and Trump moderate white supremacists and Duke a white supremacist extremist. [...]

If being white is a major part of your political and cultural identity, how you think about who you are, there really is a lot to worry about. That’s because being white isn’t really a biological reality, it’s a category in America that means being the dominant and powerful group. Again, that’s what Trumpism is. A white person can’t cease to be white just by willing it. That’s not how it works. But what you see as important, how you identify, has quite a lot to do with whether you see a future where white people are no longer a majority as a threat.

So this is not just a rhetorical or taxonomic question, whether you say you’re a white supremacist or not while you’re supporting white supremacy. Trump exists and the question of white supremacy is right at the surface today because of the demographic tipping point that country stands at. Whether Trump hates people of color or would take away their rights if he could is a mind-reading exercise we could talk about forever. But the fact that he believes in and wants to preserve a country where white people call the shots goes without saying. So maybe it’s not simply that we’re pulling David Duke and Donald Trump into the same definition. Maybe it is that the changes in the country have made the functional difference between the two much less relevant.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:53 AM on September 26 [38 favorites]


A man bought a farm for $2400 and sold it for $2700. What per cent did he gain?

Zero, probably? Tell me when he bought it, when he sold it, and the interest rate and I'll tell you how much he lost.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:57 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]


is there some weird backstory here?

Nate Silver used to work for the NYT. Maggie Haberman is fucking terrible and a Nazi collaborator, and she's accusing Nate of bitterness to cover that fact.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:58 AM on September 26 [29 favorites]


McCain says using reconciliation to pass tax reform+repeal would not be regular order

And at the same time, you have Graham and Johnson declaring that they won't consider a budget resolution with tax cuts that doesn't also include Obamacare repeal. There are similar divisions in the House.

You know, before Republicans can do tax cuts through a reconciliation bill, first they must pass a budget resolution giving instructions. It's not clear they can even jump the first hurdle with 51 votes. Republicans are so screwed up.
posted by JackFlash at 10:58 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]




TPM: Sessions Equates Student Protesters To KKK During Remarks On Free Speech
[Sessions] cited instances on college campuses that he claimed were either a violation of students’ freedom of speech — like students who were arrested in Michigan for passing out copies of the Constitution — or a university’s attempt to shut down diversity of thought.

Specifically he spoke about a “frightening” incident at Middlebury College in Vermont, in which a guest speaker was invited to the school to debate with a professor. Protesters shut down the discussion by shouting, he said.

“When the debaters attempted to move to a private broadcasting location, the protestors—many in masks, a common tactic also used by the detestable Ku Klux Klan — pulled fire alarms, surrounded the speakers, and began physically assaulting them,” he said. “In short, Middlebury students engaged in a violent riot to ensure that neither they nor their fellow students would hear speech they may have disagreed with.”

The guest speaker who was invited to the private liberal arts school for a debate was Charles Murray, the controversial co-author of “The Bell Curve,” which argues that there may be intellectual differences between races.
Comparing protesters to the KKK is intellectually dishonest and minimizes -- one might suspect intentionally -- the horror the KKK wrought; comparing them to the KKK because they wore masks is absurd, unless Sessions also plans to criticize the NYPD and all other mask-wearers.

The KKK did not protest. The KKK killed people. There is no equivalence.
posted by cjelli at 11:00 AM on September 26 [50 favorites]


> @Haley Byrd is reporting: "No vote on Graham Cassidy...Joint decision by Graham, Cassidy, and McConnell not to hold a vote per source"

*Snoopy dance, except Snoopy's holding a long knife, and will straight cut a motherfucker if they try to bring this goddamn thing up again*
posted by tonycpsu at 11:01 AM on September 26 [36 favorites]


Maggie Haberman is fucking terrible

I don't know much about her, but agree she's the pinnacle of false both-sides in the national media.

and a Nazi collaborator

Care to elaborate?
posted by cell divide at 11:03 AM on September 26


And being awful again today, going after Nate. This comeback, even though Nate was the one guy saying Trump could win. And getting attacked for it.

Yeah 538 was the single source that actually got the election right. They said "this is what the polling shows, assuming it is accurate". But they also said "if the state polling is off by a relatively normal margin, Trump could win the electoral college by overperforming among white voters in PA and the upper midwest, so he still has a decent chance despite Clinton's small lead in the polls."

538 was dead on in 2016 (for the general) and I have no idea where the take that they were bad comes from. Before the election it was all "HOW DARE YOU SAY TRUMP HAS A 30% TO WIN YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO GET PAGE VIEWS, ASSHOLE" and after the election it was, "HOW DARE YOU SAY CLINTON HAD A 70% CHANCE TO WIN YOU LIED AND FOOLED US."
posted by Justinian at 11:03 AM on September 26 [66 favorites]


So I guess tRump said today: This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It’s a big ocean, it’s a very big ocean.

His literacy level is elementary school. Dating myself here, but he reminds me so of the Dick and Jane books I read in first grade. ("See Spot run. Run, Spot, run. Spot likes to run. Spot is a good dog.")
posted by NorthernLite at 11:04 AM on September 26 [9 favorites]


Specifically he spoke about a “frightening” incident at Middlebury College in Vermont, in which a guest speaker was invited to the school to debate with a professor. Protesters shut down the discussion by shouting, he said.

It's frightening. But why would Sessions care? It's not like Charles Murray is a god damned racist monster offering faulty post hoc justification for our epidemic of imprisoning black youths or anything...

Oh wait...
posted by Talez at 11:06 AM on September 26 [8 favorites]


@Haley Byrd is reporting: "No vote on Graham Cassidy...Joint decision by Graham, Cassidy, and McConnell not to hold a vote per source"

HALLE-FUCKING-LUJAH.
posted by lydhre at 11:06 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


So Don Jr. has already reactivated his Secret Service detail after only a week without? @Ashley Feinberg wants to know what's up:
uhhh what was don jr doing last week / if this was anyone else I’d say dismissing secret service for a week is too obvious but let’s remember that don jr is a fucking idiot / I already regret this but if you have any idea what don jr was doing last week HMU ashley_feinberg@wired.com"
posted by lalex at 11:06 AM on September 26 [50 favorites]


Dems have been relatively quiet on Puerto Rico, in an attempt to avoid looking like they are politicizing it. Looks like that's over with now:

@SenSchumer:
1/ The time for tweets and talk is over, the American citizens in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands need action and results.

2/ Instead of trying to take health care away from millions, the Trump Admin & GOP should put an emergency aid bill on the floor this week.
Probably going to be hearing more.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:07 AM on September 26 [22 favorites]


@Haley Byrd is reporting: "No vote on Graham Cassidy...Joint decision by Graham, Cassidy, and McConnell not to hold a vote per source"

♬♬ you don't have the votes, you don't have the votes ♬

a-ha-ha-ha-ha
posted by entropicamericana at 11:08 AM on September 26 [33 favorites]


is there some weird backstory here?

That's publicly known, only that 538 used to be part of the NYT and that its exit (and Silver's) was probably driven by disagreements between Silver and the NYT's political reporters. To quote the NYT Public Editor at the time,
I don’t have a great deal of inside information about how he made up his mind. But I did get to know Nate a bit. I visited with him at his second-floor desk a few times, interviewed him in person and by phone, mildly criticized one thing he did, and – notably — was mentioned very kindly in a Twitter message of his when I was under attack for that criticism.
...
I don’t think Nate Silver ever really fit into the Times culture and I think he was aware of that. He was, in a word, disruptive. Much like the Brad Pitt character in the movie “Moneyball” disrupted the old model of how to scout baseball players, Nate disrupted the traditional model of how to cover politics.

His entire probability-based way of looking at politics ran against the kind of political journalism that The Times specializes in: polling, the horse race, campaign coverage, analysis based on campaign-trail observation, and opinion writing, or “punditry,” as he put it, famously describing it as “fundamentally useless.” Of course, The Times is equally known for its in-depth and investigative reporting on politics.

His approach was to work against the narrative of politics – the “story” – and that made him always interesting to read. For me, both of these approaches have value and can live together just fine [but a] number of traditional and well-respected Times journalists disliked his work. The first time I wrote about him I suggested that print readers should have the same access to his writing that online readers were getting. I was surprised to quickly hear by e-mail from three high-profile Times political journalists, criticizing him and his work. They were also tough on me for seeming to endorse what he wrote, since I was suggesting that it get more visibility.

Many others, of course, in The Times’s newsroom did appreciate his work and the innovation (not to mention the traffic) that he brought, and liked his humility.

I don't want to read too much into that, since Haberman only joined the NYT in 2015, two years after Silver left, but it's not outlandish to imagine there's still some lingering bad feelings in the NYT's political office (and vice versa).
posted by cjelli at 11:08 AM on September 26 [26 favorites]


No one seems to know why the Trump administration’s new travel ban includes Chad

Pfft. It's revenge. From last October:
Exxon Mobil Corp. was ordered to pay a record $74 billion fine in Chad for underpaying royalties in the central African nation where the company has been drilling for 15 years, according to a court document.

The fine is about five times more than Chad’s gross domestic product, which the World Bank estimates at $13 billion. The High Court in the capital, N’Djamena, announced its ruling Oct. 5 in response to a complaint from the Finance Ministry that a consortium led by Exxon hadn’t met its tax obligations. The court also demanded the Texas-based oil explorer pay $819 million in overdue royalties, according to the document.
Now, to be fair, Exxon settled the dispute three months ago (can't find any specifics about the settlement). But I don't think for a second that the ban is anything more than Rex Tillerson being a petty asshole.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 11:08 AM on September 26 [57 favorites]


NEW from Politico: Blumenthal: ‘99 percent sure’ of Flynn, Manafort indictments
Criminal charges against two former top advisers to President Donald Trump are virtually certain, Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal said Tuesday.

Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort are almost sure to be indicted as a result of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election, the Connecticut senator told POLITICO.

“I'm about 99 percent sure there will be some criminal charges from this investigation,” said Blumenthal, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Blumenthal has also served as a U.S. attorney and spent 20 years as his state's attorney general.

Blumenthal said he is less certain Trump himself would end up facing charges, including for possible obstruction of justice for his firing of FBI Director James Comey.
posted by lalex at 11:09 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


is there some weird backstory here?

She attacks personally and repeatedly anyone who questions her or the Times coverage of Clinton. There's really no history between them [edit: other than the well known that Silver worked at NYT] that I know of besides her defensiveness and awfulness.
posted by chris24 at 11:09 AM on September 26 [14 favorites]


54%? Honestly I'm kind of surprised it's that high.

I wonder what percentage of Americans think that Canadians are US citizens.


True story: A few years ago I was in Atlanta for a conference and while I was there, I attended an MLB game with a friend of mine who lives outside of Winnipeg. There were a couple of locals sitting in the seats in front of us who struck up a conversation by asking us who we were rooting for, to which we apparently answered correctly, "the Braves." Then they let us know that the last game had been super lame for them because there were these Puerto Ricans sitting in the seats we were then occupying, who had had the temerity to display the Puerto Rican flag! Oh, it was a scandal. But thank goodness we were there now. I pointed out that my friend was Canadian, which they thought was just fine.
posted by SpaceBass at 11:09 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


RE: Josh Marshall, "Moderate white supremacist Donald Trump" does seem like a good description.
posted by Guy Smiley at 11:10 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]


and a Nazi collaborator

Care to elaborate?

She attacks personally and repeatedly anyone who questions her or the Times coverage of Clinton.


At a certain point its a reasonable assumption that her actions and the Times coverage during the election was intentional to help Trump. We're at that point with Haberman.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:12 AM on September 26 [15 favorites]


And here's Leahy calling for PR/USVI relief asap.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:12 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


Statement to GOP leadership on Puerto Rico/USVI from ten democratic Senators so far.

Markey - MA
Warren - MA
Menendez - N.J.
Booker - N.J.
Blumenthal - Conn
Gillibrand - N.Y.
Schumer - N.Y.
Duckworth - Ill
Brown - OH
Casey - PA

Keep calling, folks.
posted by lydhre at 11:14 AM on September 26 [17 favorites]


The Very Bad Man is answering questions at a press conference with the President of Spain. To the first question, he says the NFL stuff isn't a distraction because he has "plenty of time"
posted by theodolite at 11:14 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


VA gov polling update: new Monmouth poll has Northam up 49-44. That matches up with the polling average of about +4.5.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:20 AM on September 26 [3 favorites]


"We've had tremendous reviews" from Puerto Rico and hurricane-affected states.
posted by theodolite at 11:20 AM on September 26 [5 favorites]


But school standards haven't just shifted to allow more diversity; they've outright dropped any specific educational standards in most cases.

not sure if I should be avoiding this derail but a) this isn't true and b) just in case you're thinking "kids these days", the voting electorate we're deploring would have graduated high school in the 90s.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:20 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


NYT: Nearly Half of Americans Don’t Know Puerto Ricans Are Fellow Citizens

Immigrant goes to America
Many hellos in America
Nobody knows in America
Puerto Rico's in America
posted by one for the books at 11:22 AM on September 26 [53 favorites]


This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It’s a big ocean, it’s a very big ocean.

It's not an ocean, and the island's not in the middle. It is an island, though.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:27 AM on September 26 [15 favorites]






"We've had tremendous reviews" from Puerto Rico and hurricane-affected states.

For Trump, everything is about the reality TV show and his ratings.
posted by JackFlash at 11:28 AM on September 26 [8 favorites]


headdesk @danieldale:
A Spanish journalist asks Trump a detailed question seeking his views on a solution to the Catalan independence issue./
Trump's answer: If you had "accurate polling," I bet you'd find that the people of Catalonia love Spain, which is a great country.
posted by lalex at 11:29 AM on September 26 [30 favorites]


Looks like someone just lost out on box seats to El Clasico.
posted by PenDevil at 11:31 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Trump's answer: If you had "accurate polling," I bet you'd find that the people of Catalonia love Spain, which is a great country.

Every day of this administration is like the slapstick parts of King Ralph.
posted by uncleozzy at 11:33 AM on September 26 [29 favorites]


@KenJennings: "Graham Cassidy is back from the dead" --October 2017 news headline, or TV Guide synopsis for a random 1983 episode of Falcon Crest

If they need this by the 30th, I'm sure the GOP will try one more time to fulfill their Sacred Promise to slay the dragon kill Obamacare. Because erasing his legacy is more important than almost anything.

Expect five senators to stand on the steps of the capital announcing the YOYOB* Act of 2017. Basically, the government gets completely out of health care--Medicare and Medicaid. The money will be rerouted to the military, tax cuts, and presidential golf courses.

*You're On Your Own, Bitches
posted by MrGuilt at 11:33 AM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Don Jr.'s week without Secret Service protection is a non-story. Trumpspringa is a well-known tradition in the family. They always come back.
posted by emelenjr at 11:33 AM on September 26 [13 favorites]


Graham saying he's going to come back to Graham-Cassidy after taxes get done.

"Oh, Meyer, you don't know WHEN to quit."
posted by Chrysostom at 11:34 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


they've outright dropped any specific educational standards in most cases.

Not true in most states.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:34 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It’s a big ocean, it’s a very big ocean.

Wait til he hears about Hawaii.
posted by melissasaurus at 11:35 AM on September 26 [30 favorites]


“We've had tremendous reviews" from Puerto Rico and hurricane-affected states.

If only we could drive him out via Yelp: “FIRST OF ALL, if I could give this Presidency negative googol stars...”
posted by droplet at 11:39 AM on September 26 [10 favorites]


"This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It’s a big ocean, it’s a very big ocean."

Christ, does it EVER OCCUR to this guy that, while it's difficult to always sound presidential, it's a laudable goal to try to never sound anything-but-presidential? If these are the words that come into your head, just say nothing.
posted by Rykey at 11:40 AM on September 26 [19 favorites]


I don't want to read too much into that, since Haberman only joined the NYT in 2015, two years after Silver left, but it's not outlandish to imagine there's still some lingering bad feelings in the NYT's political office (and vice versa).

Nate Silver tweeted about a story that Haberman wrote today, "I can think of someone *else* who repeatedly harped on Clinton’s emails & made it the centerpiece of the campaign.🤔"

His second tweet: The story is written in the passive voice. But Clinton's emails didn't *just happen* to become a huge story. The NYT was a huge reason why.

Maybe Nate's tweets sound harsh, but he just finished writing an 11-part examination of what happened in the 2016 election, and the final chapter is all about the media and how their reporting was not just wrong but bad for the country. I'm sure Haberman isn't the only journalist smarting, but she's the most defensive. From Silver's conclusion:
In general, the problems were worse at The New York Times and other organizations that (as Michael Cieply, a former Times editor, put it) heavily emphasized “the narrative” of the campaign and encouraged reporters to “generate stories that fit the pre-designated line.”

If you re-read the Times’ general election coverage from the conventions onward,16 you’ll be struck by how consistent it was from start to finish. Although the polls were fairly volatile in 2016, you can’t really distinguish the periods when Clinton had a clear advantage from those when things were pretty tight. Instead, the narrative was consistent: Clinton was a deeply flawed politician, the “worst candidate Democrats could have run,” cast in “shadows” and “doubts” because of her ethical lapses. However, she was almost certain to win because Trump appealed to too narrow a range of demographic groups and ran an unsophisticated campaign, whereas Clinton’s diverse coalition and precise voter-targeting efforts gave her an inherent advantage in the Electoral College.

It was a consistent story, but it was consistently wrong.

One can understand why news organizations find “the narrative” so tempting. The world is a complicated place, and journalists are expected to write authoritatively about it under deadline pressure. There’s a management consulting adage that says when creating a product, you can pick any two of these three objectives: 1. fast, 2. good and 3. cheap. You can never have all three at once. The equivalent in journalism is that a story can be 1. fast, 2. interesting and/or 3. true — two out of the three — but it’s hard for it to be all three at the same time.

Deciding on the narrative ahead of time seems to provide a way out of the dilemma. Pre-writing substantial portions of the story — or at least, having a pretty good idea of what you’re going to say — allows it to be turned around more quickly. And narratives are all about wrapping the story up in a neat-looking package and telling readers “what it all means,” so the story is usually engaging and has the appearance of veracity.

The problem is that you’re potentially sacrificing No. 3, “true.” By bending the facts to fit your template, you run the risk of getting the story completely wrong. To make matters worse, most people — including most reporters and editors (also: including me) — have a strong tendency toward confirmation bias. Presented with a complicated set of facts, it takes a lot of work for most of us not to connect the dots in a way that confirms our prejudices. An editorial culture that emphasizes “the narrative” indulges these bad habits rather than resists them.
posted by gladly at 11:41 AM on September 26 [89 favorites]


>This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It’s a big ocean, it’s a very big ocean.

Wait til he hears about Hawaii.


For that matter, wait until he hears about the Pacific Ocean: via Buzzfeed, Trump on delivering Puerto Rico aid: "This isn't like Florida... This is a thing called the Atlantic Ocean. This is tough stuff." [real, with video]
posted by cjelli at 11:44 AM on September 26 [1 favorite]


How poor does one have to be to criticize America?

I figured he was saying "millions" derogatorily, since his dude's "billionaire" ass pretty much got elected by criticizing America.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:45 AM on September 26


@cjelli's link above about Sessions comparing student protesters to the KKK reminds me an awful lot of Governor Rhodes' statement about Kent State the day before they shot those kids:

We've seen here at the city of Kent especially, probably the most vicious form of campus-oriented violence yet perpetrated by dissident groups. They make definite plans of burning, destroying, and throwing rocks at police and at the National Guard and the Highway Patrol. This is when we're going to use every part of the law enforcement agency of Ohio to drive them out of Kent. We are going to eradicate the problem. We're not going to treat the symptoms. And these people just move from one campus to the other and terrorize the community. They're worse than the brown shirts and the communist element and also the night riders and the vigilantes. They're the worst type of people that we harbor in America. Now I want to say this. They are not going to take over [the] campus. I think that we're up against the strongest, well-trained, militant, revolutionary group that has ever assembled in America.[24]
posted by gucci mane at 11:45 AM on September 26 [20 favorites]


(Ps how do people do the inline quotes thing?)
posted by gucci mane at 11:45 AM on September 26


> (Ps how do people do the inline quotes thing?)

<blockquote>
thing
</blockquote>
posted by tonycpsu at 11:46 AM on September 26 [12 favorites]


It's the blockquote tag from HTML.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:46 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


If they need this by the 30th, I'm sure the GOP will try one more time to fulfill their Sacred Promise to slay the dragon kill Obamacare.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but not much changes on the 30th. It just means the present budget resolution expires. But next Monday, they can start all over again with the so-called 2018 budget resolution. This resolution will surely contain instructions on tax cuts, but it is also possible that they will also include Obamacare repeal, as Graham and Johnson have just pledged. So you may be hearing about repeal efforts for the rest of the year.

And if that is not enough, if they manage to pass the tax cuts, then on January 1, 2018, they get yet another chance with the so-called 2019 budget resolution and again try to repeal Obamacare. So they have at least two more chances to repeal Obamacare before the mid-term elections.

This nightmare is never going away until Democrats win back a majority in either the House or Senate. Otherwise it will be around at least until 2020 for the next presidential election. Elections have consequences.
posted by JackFlash at 11:47 AM on September 26 [23 favorites]


Or what tonycpsu did in a much more helpful manner.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:47 AM on September 26


Education derail notes - I'm not thinking "kids these days;" I'm thinking we have a few generations of shifting standards (as Snopes notes, a good 19th-century education didn't require any knowledge of non-US cultures or the arts, and their focus on history was more than a little lopsided by modern standards), and part of that shifting has been an erosion of specific requirements.

Some of that is reasonable - 8th grade graduates should have a reasonable understanding of, e.g., US history, but the details of what's important and relevant will change over time, so the phrasing of modern requirements is vague, with school boards supposedly setting detailed requirements. This can be a problem, but schools have the resources to address it; it's complicated by the notion that "8th grader" means "student between 12 and 14 years of age" instead of "student who's on track to pass the 8th grade final exams," whatever content is included in those.

[redacted: Long rant about grades being entirely based on age groups instead of educ level.]

I don't think "kids these days" are less-educated for not having learned to diagram sentences and not being able to create a timeline for WWII. I do think there's been an erosion of educational standards, especially in the critical thinking and applied problem-solving areas, and that we have a frightening number of people who think that anything involving video on a screen must be true, because "they" wouldn't let a show called "News" tell lies. And I'm definitely not limiting that latter group to "people under 30," or even "people under 50."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:47 AM on September 26 [6 favorites]


2009: the great thing about america is anyone can be president
2017: imma stop you right there
posted by entropicamericana at 11:49 AM on September 26 [99 favorites]


Expect five senators to stand on the steps of the capital announcing the YOYOB* Act of 2017.

Change that to the YOLO Act of 2017 and maybe we can work something out.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:54 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


zombieflanders: "It's the blockquote tag from HTML."

There's also a nice greasemonkey script.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:54 AM on September 26 [2 favorites]


The ACA Survives!
posted by exlotuseater at 11:56 AM on September 26 [11 favorites]


The ACA Survives!

You'll forgive me if I don't put my pitchfork back in the shed for another 5 days.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:58 AM on September 26 [37 favorites]


Wait til he hears about Hawaii.

Sessions has already said that Hawaii is just "an island in the Pacific" and that judges in Hawaii should not have authority to act as a check on the President -- ie, that Hawaii is not really part of the US.

Trump, being a birther, probably thinks that if Obama was born in Hawaii that proves Hawaii isn't part of the US.
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:00 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]


Forgiven.
posted by exlotuseater at 12:00 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Yeah, I'm not actually going to feel any relief about the ACA until it's October 1st and the ACA is still standing.

And even after that, I'm just going to be waiting for Republicans in the Senate to change whatever rules they need to pass it with 51 votes, reconciliation or no.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:01 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


I think there are good reasons to think Trump is a white supremacist, but at the same time some good reasons to think he isn't. Vast majority of his life he was aligned with Democrats, then with Independent party, and finally with the Republicans. Through all of these decades it was the Republican party that was anti-minority. I would expect to see him gravitate toward Republicans, far right radio, Limbaugh, Hannity, Buchanan, televangelists; to hate and attack the Clintons, Gore, Kerry, rap culture, affirmative action and political correctness.

For a white supremacist, he had shown a curious lack of interest in the political postures and fashions of the America's racist politicians and media, up until his run. Instead, he would hang around Howard Stern and Access Hollywood and the like.

Everything about Trump screams "opportunism". Every single detail about his background fits perfectly with opportunism.

I think it makes more sense to say he's done more to promote white supremacist views and influence than any white supremacist we know.

On the other hand, if you consider Republican party to be synonymous with white supremacy, he is one by definition because he ran as a Republican.
posted by rainy at 12:01 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


The KKK did not protest. The KKK killed people. There is no equivalence.

preeeetty sure that shriveled old racist baby doesn't consider anyone the KKK was killing to be "people"
posted by poffin boffin at 12:03 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]


Vast majority of his life he was aligned with Democrats, then with Independent party, and finally with the Republicans.

I wouldn't call that proof positive. The only thing we can say for certain is that unlike the Republicans, the Democratic party has a wing that's not white supremacist.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:05 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Everything about Trump screams "opportunism".

He's a Trump Supremacist?
posted by Coventry at 12:05 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Why do we keep assuming that T has any actual views on anything?
posted by Melismata at 12:06 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]


It's maybe not so much that Trump is a white supremacist as that, whatever his particular alignments and allegiances, his words and actions promote and embolden the white supremacist cause often enough that reasonable people would say, "Hey, seems like a duck." As somebody linked upthread, if he's not a white supremacist, he does a pretty good impression.
posted by Rykey at 12:10 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


TPM: GOP Rep. Says ‘If It Wasn’t Sexist’ He’d Call His Female Colleagues ‘Eye Candy’
Rep. Mark Walker (R-NC), the chairman of the Republican Study Committee, on Tuesday said he would call his female colleagues “eye candy” if it were not “sexist” to do so. Walker made the remark in a presentation outside the U.S. Capitol...while praising the committee’s members.

“The accomplished men and women of the RSC, and women, if it wasn’t sexist I would say the RSC eye candy, but we’ll leave that out of the record, are not attention seekers,” he said.
The Hill has video, as do a bunch of other outlets, because Walker thought this was a perfectly fine thing to say in public in front of a bunch of cameras.

You might remember Walker for his earlier attacks on duck ramps and threats of war with Mexico.
posted by cjelli at 12:10 PM on September 26 [50 favorites]


"This is an island sitting in the middle of an ocean. It’s a big ocean, it’s a very big ocean."

When 45 vomited about the Coast Guard improving their "brand" with their Harvey response, I pointed out that the Coast Guard has provided him with several points of resistance and failure: His academy commencement speech was an embarrassing crapfest and nobody pretended otherwise. The top command has pushed back hard on his transgender ban bullshit. His attempt to slash their budget was stopped by Congress. And unless the culture has changed dramatically since I was a member, I can't imagine they're exactly on the same Gestapo page as ICE regarding undocumented immigrants. I think the Coast Guard is one more sore spot for Cheetoh Mussolini.

But now I'm thinking that "brand improvement" thing may have a simpler explanation. This month may have made him realize for the first time in his fucking life the ocean is big and difficult to deal with. And now he wants to tell others this shocking fact, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:11 PM on September 26 [24 favorites]


The vast majority of his life was spent grifting in NYC, which skews Democratic -- it was in his interests to at least appear to be a Democrat. He went Independent and finally Republican because of the business opportunities these labels afforded (including the White House).

He's a racist from a racist family, and he has always and will always continue their traditions.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:12 PM on September 26 [32 favorites]


Melismata: "Why do we keep assuming that T has any actual views on anything?"

He likes ice cream, we know that.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:12 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


He does have a long history of showing us, with his actions, that he's a white supremacist. Look up Central Park Five, his history as a landlord, lots of comments made over the years, several more things that a person could find by typing "Donald Trump racist" into a search engine that I can't think of off the top of my head.

The reason I have trouble recalling specifics is because it's so, SO obvious. It's like why I can't list a bunch of reasons right now why my spouse is great--it's so obvious to me that he's amazing, and it's hard to articulate! These things are like, their suchness. Donald Trump's suchness is a shifting thing, but it is always majorly, unequivocally, racist.
posted by witchen at 12:13 PM on September 26 [43 favorites]


trump wasn't Uber Grand Wizard Emeritus of the KKK until 2017 but he always was a racist pile of shit. Do we really need to break it down any further?
posted by Burhanistan at 12:15 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]


I think there are good reasons to think Trump is a white supremacist, but at the same time some good reasons to think he isn't. Vast majority of his life he was aligned with Democrats, then with Independent party, and finally with the Republicans.

During his early life, his racial discrimination was sufficiently odious to warrant an investigation from the Justice Department (which was settled without admission of wrongdoing -- but the wrongs were fairly clear, and his company had to changes its practices as part of the settlement). That was in the '70s. Trump's long-running campaign against the Central Park Five -- a campaign he continued after their exoneration -- is probably best understood as at least partially motivated by racism. His overt comments on race also speak for themselves.

I think there are good reasons to think Trump is a white supremacist, and I don't think his party affiliation is a good reason to think he isn't. He was a racist Democrat; then he was a racist Independent; and now he's a racist Republican.
posted by cjelli at 12:18 PM on September 26 [42 favorites]


The math is simple:

trump is white.
trump is a pathological narcissist.
Ergo, trump is a white supremacist.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:18 PM on September 26 [10 favorites]


Trump definitely has some views on some things. Even if you wanted to take the absolute smallest view of it he clearly thinks that he himself, and his family (well most of them, sorry tiffany) are superior and deserve the riches and good treatment they have generally enjoyed. A Trump Supremacist is a pretty apt description. WHY are they deserving of their general good fortunes? It would appear, against all evidence, that he thinks they are smarter and better a most things which is why they have enjoyed so much success. Given his dad's political affiliation with the Klan it would not surprise me in the least if in some small way or as a background to a narrative of personal excellence, Trump didn't put a little stock in the fact that his whiteness is one of the many attributes that make him one of the best people.

Does he hold any consistent policy or political views? no - he is willing to say or do anything that serves him at any time. Is that mutuall incompatible with being a bigoted white supremacist? not really.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:19 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


White supremacy doesn't always express itself with cartoon villainy.
posted by Groundhog Week at 12:21 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]


White supremacy doesn't always express itself with cartoon villainy.

And sometimes, as in the case of Donald Trump, it does.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:23 PM on September 26 [33 favorites]


YOLUCKYATAC

"You Only Live Until Congress Kills Your Ability To Afford Coverage"
posted by aspersioncast at 12:23 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]




The Democratic Party was a welcome home for white supremacists until Trump was in his 30s. And I think we've all noted his inability to form new memories since right about then anyway.

I've been watching The Deuce (which, for its various other merits and demerits, is the closest to an anti-aphrodisiac that I've ever encountered) and I keep thinking about this being the New York of Donald Trump's formative years, and definitely the New York of his dad's heyday. In every one of James Franco's2 scenes I just keep imagining Donald or Fred Trump walking in the door as the Mobbed Up Developer In A Shiny Suit and I'm like, yep, checks out. These people are all fucking awful, and Donald Trump is basically stuck in this time and place in a fugue state forever. And then I scream into a throw pillow.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:26 PM on September 26 [32 favorites]


White supremacy doesn't always express itself with cartoon villainy.

In fact, "gee, I couldn't possibly be a white supremacist because I am not a cartoon villain" is the fig leaf employed by every white supremacist ever.
posted by lydhre at 12:26 PM on September 26 [40 favorites]


Shit, I just realized trump really is a cartoon character escaped from "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?".
posted by Burhanistan at 12:26 PM on September 26 [10 favorites]


I don't think "kids these days" are less-educated for not having learned to diagram sentences and not being able to create a timeline for WWII. I do think there's been an erosion of educational standards, especially in the critical thinking and applied problem-solving areas, and that we have a frightening number of people who think that anything involving video on a screen must be true, because "they" wouldn't let a show called "News" tell lies. And I'm definitely not limiting that latter group to "people under 30," or even "people under 50."

Erosion of standards is fair, I'll take that argument. We have plenty of specific standards ever since NCLB, but they do neglect critical thinking.

But more importantly anyone who's over 50 has not been in public school for over 30 years. So I feel like the rest of society, outside our public school system, is probably part of the problem.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:27 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]




If you are an opportunist and you're willing to do and say racist things opportunistically, you are a racist. Enabling white supremacists is racist. Race-baiting is racist. Reacting to protesters differently solely because of their race (or because they're protesting racial disparity) is racist.

Can we please stop excusing this guy by saying, "Oh he's not REALLY racist; he's just willing to act like a racist and give aid and comfort to racism for personal gain"? Because, as Howard Dean so eloquently said, "That IS racist."
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:36 PM on September 26 [75 favorites]


For a white supremacist, he had shown a curious lack of interest in the political postures and fashions of the America's racist politicians and media, up until his run. Instead, he would hang around Howard Stern and Access Hollywood and the like.

Northern white supremacy looks different from southern white supremacy. Urban white supremacy looks different from rural white supremacy. There are plenty of white supremacists here in NYC, and they look and sound nothing like Jeff Sessions.

The dude's been a white supremacist every day of his life, as evidenced by his words and actions. He's also a raging misogynist who likes to sexually assault women and girls. The fact that he finds an audience to discuss the latter does not disprove the former.

And anyone who views white supremacy as an opportunity is a white supremacist.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:39 PM on September 26 [94 favorites]


I had a dude on Twitter today tell me that Puerto Ricans are illegal immigrants because the name of our country is the United STATES of American and since Puerto Rico isn't a state it doesn't count. When I pointed out that Washington D.C. isn't a state, he doubled down and said it wasn't part of the country either.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to guess his race.
posted by mcduff at 12:40 PM on September 26 [56 favorites]


I do think there's been an erosion of educational standards, especially in the critical thinking and applied problem-solving areas,
I'm over 60, and was educated in the '60s and '70s, the first 5 years in the L.A. Public Schools then taken out in favor of an expensive Private School for 3 years and a Catholic High School for 4, and I don't remember "critical thinking" being part of the curriculum at any of them; the closest being a semi-radical Jesuit brother doing "comparative religion" in the Catholic School's mandatory Religion class and being heavily harassed by the Good Catholic students. One of my other most memorable teachers was a football coach in the private school who did a Social Studies class that was a daily All-American Pep Talk that I thought would have made a good Talk Radio show 20 years later. "Applied problem-solving" always took a back seat to conformity and obedience, in all 3 school 'types'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:41 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]


Puerto Rico isn't a state

It's a "commonwealth" right? Aren't Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts also "commonwealths" officially? Is it just that those commonwealths are also considered "states" for purposes of representation in Congress, etc, and Puerto Rico isn't? What does "commonwealth" even mean?

(I understand it in the British context of "commonwealth countries" which still recognize the queen, but I don't understand it in the American context.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:48 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


whoa! @Michael Collins (Gannett Tennessee): "BREAKING: @SenBobCorker will not seek re-election next year. @Tennessean @knoxnews @memphisnews"
posted by lalex at 12:49 PM on September 26 [38 favorites]


Rats from a sinking ship.
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:51 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


that's big news
posted by lalex at 12:52 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Another vote that can't be extorted with threats to re-election prospects, when the impeachment proceedings start. (knock wood.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:53 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


And then I scream into a throw pillow.

I throw up into a scream pillow.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:53 PM on September 26 [44 favorites]


I find the question of whether or not Donnie is actually a white supremacist to be one best left to any historians who may be living in 2047. For now it seems sufficient to say that he quacks like a white supremacist.

And in other news, Julian Assange is the new champion of Catalonian secession. I've been wrong about a few things over the last several years, but boy howdy I wasn't wrong about old Julian. I take a lot of pleasure in imagining just how stupefyingly dull and wearisome his prison must be and I look forward to watching it break him one day.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:53 PM on September 26 [12 favorites]


It's a "commonwealth" right? Aren't Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts also "commonwealths" officially? Is it just that those commonwealths are also considered "states" for purposes of representation in Congress, etc, and Puerto Rico isn't? What does "commonwealth" even mean?

It's just a fancy name for 'state' when it comes to PA/VA/MA. Puerto Rico's status as a commonwealth is more of an actual legal status.

Basically it sounds nicer than colony
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:54 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]


> Say it fast enough and it sounds like maggots.

Name-calling is for bullies, but MAGATS is pretty tempting vindictive shorthand.

Especially when used to describe pale, spineless, juvenile insects that feed on death, rot, garbage, and literally bullshit.
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 12:54 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


fragmede: the tweet features a powerful speech of former NFL player Shannon Sharpe expressing his disappointment in the NFL's owners, who are only now reacting because Trump told the team owners to fire a player or people should boycott the NFL, which might hurt their wallet.

Transcript available on foxsports (but go watch the video ).

Here's theroot with more on that video.
“I’m disappointed. And I’m unimpressed,” Sharpe said during Fox Sports’ Undisputed. “Because this is the tipping point. Of the 7,537 things that President Trump has said in the last 50 years, him calling an NFL player an SOB is what brought the NFL, the owners and its players, together. And while some might be moved by the conscience of these NFL owners, it wasn’t their conscience that moved them. It was the cash.”
Kimmy Schmidt was first topical, then ahead of the curve by a few months, both with the National Anthem joke and the idea that finally got the Redskins to agree to change their name (spoilers ahoy).

A dark sign of how far we've come in 2017: this realization made me laugh before it made me really, really sad.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:55 PM on September 26 [14 favorites]


tivalasvegas: "It's just a fancy name for 'state' when it comes to PA/VA/MA. Puerto Rico's status as a commonwealth is more of a legal status."

FYI, KY is the fourth commonwealth state.

PR is legally a territory, like Guam or American Samoa.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:56 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


> whoa! @Michael Collins (Gannett Tennessee): "BREAKING: @SenBobCorker will not seek re-election next year. @Tennessean @knoxnews @memphisnews"

Steve Cohen, come on down!
posted by tonycpsu at 12:57 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Oh yeah I knew there was another one.
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:58 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


So, Scott Pruitt's behavior is getting increasingly bizarre. I hope the Oversight Dems put this on their plate:
The Environmental Protection Agency is spending nearly $25,000 to construct a secure, soundproof communications booth in the office of Administrator Scott Pruitt, according to government contracting records. [...] Typically, such soundproof booths are used to conduct hearing tests. But the EPA sought a customized version — one that eventually would cost almost several times more than a typical model — that Pruitt can use to communicate without fear of being monitored. [WP]
posted by Chrysostom at 12:58 PM on September 26 [78 favorites]


TN is obviously a stretch for Dems, but it at least makes it not a fait accompli. And anything that makes the GOP work harder is a plus.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:00 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Scott Pruitt's $25,000 Jack Off Shed
posted by theodolite at 1:01 PM on September 26 [49 favorites]


What are Corker's possible replacements like though? How is he compared to the GOP in his state?
posted by corb at 1:02 PM on September 26


" ... a secure, soundproof communications booth ... "
I know just what he's looking for.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:03 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]


Tennessee is a state where the right splitting could really help. Nashville is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country, and Corker only narrowly won over Harold Ford in 2006. A MAGA vs. Establishment split with no runoff would have huge potential for a Todd Akin / Sharon Angle situation.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:03 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


huh I never saw a picture of Bob Corker before today. I guess he's Steve Carrell at 75?
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:03 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Yeah, TN GOP is fairly nutty. Marsha Blackburn would probably be the frontrunner. Blackburn is...colorful.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:05 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


James Mackler (@veteranattorney) is one of the people running for the Dem nomination for Corker's seat.

Sidenote: I think twitter handles are going to be important this cycle for branding purposes - IRON STACHE, VETERAN ATTORNEY, etc. Makes it hard to tweet about them without promoting their desired branding.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:05 PM on September 26 [21 favorites]


WaPo: "DHS waived Jones Act restrictions during Harvey and Irma in order to move oil more quickly to the East Coast and make up for the loss of pipelines...", but won't for PR.

How about No Jones-ation Without Representation. How can you call a port in Puerto Rico a "US port" if the people living around it have no say in the government that controls tariffs & other aspects of shipping at that port?
posted by ASCII Costanza head at 1:06 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


I don't think Trump has ever considered himself a member of any party. He will however publicly identify with the party that he thinks will give him the greatest benefit at the time. In 80's he had no problem calling himself a Democrat just like the local politicians in power (Koch, Dinkins, and Gov. Cuomo). Into the 90's he latched onto the post Perot Reform party for a run but his interest died with their national hopes and he was back to sending wedding invites to the Clintons. Come 2008 he found his racist tirades against president Obama got some serious traction in the Tea Party wing that was rising to power in the Republican party.

Even though he's the leader of the party, he hasn't shown any hesitation in attacking and dividing his membership. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he threatens to leave the party at some point as a scorched earth fuck you. Especially if there's an impeachment or indictment looming.

In all those incarnations he's been racist.
posted by cmfletcher at 1:12 PM on September 26 [39 favorites]


Marsha Blackburn would probably be the frontrunner
*Curses *
*Spits*
posted by Twain Device at 1:13 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


We're still assuming that he actually thinks about something beyond what is right in front of his nose at any given moment.
posted by Melismata at 1:14 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Daily Beast: Sean Spicer Hires A Lawyer
posted by lalex at 1:14 PM on September 26 [23 favorites]


I had a dude on Twitter today tell me that Puerto Ricans are illegal immigrants because the name of our country is the United STATES of American and since Puerto Rico isn't a state it doesn't count. When I pointed out that Washington D.C. isn't a state, he doubled down and said it wasn't part of the country either.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to guess his race.


God 2017 has pushed that old "rules lawyering so you can't call me racist" game from "tedious" to "unbearably exhausting" to "eye roll so hard you go blind and then you knock over an oil lamp and then everything is on fire but you don't even care you just want it to be done and anyways burning alive feels better than listening to this shit again". It's actually a good sign that more people are less bold in wrapping themselves up in overt racism, but damn, sometimes it's easy to forget and long for these assholes to have the courage of their shitty little convictions.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:17 PM on September 26 [20 favorites]


I really hope Spicer goes completely broke paying legal bills and never cashes in on that speaking career he's desperate for. It's the minimum he deserves for his large part in this shitpile, and Press Secretary doesn't pay well enough for the type of years long open ended white collar representation he's going to need. Take out that second mortgage now, Sean.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:19 PM on September 26 [43 favorites]


My point is this, nobody gets to speak for me, but me. Nobody gets to speak for Gold Star families, except the families, who are not going to be in lockstep.

It's worth remembering that several lifetimes ago, Trump embarked on several days of name-calling aimed at a Gold Star family who criticized him at the Democratic National Convention.
posted by Gelatin at 1:20 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


Hey, maybe Spicey will have to write a tell-all book to pay his lawyer bills.
posted by Fleebnork at 1:24 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


I don't care for Bob Corker as my senator...but I just shuddered a bit. The level of GOP crazy in this state is substantial, both in Congress and especially in the state legislature. Corker is the worst of the TN right wing, except for all of the others.

And I don't want Steve Cohen to lose his House seat, but if he can win he'd be terrific.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:24 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Let's take stock of how Mitch McConnell's day is going:
1) ACA repeal failed, again
2) Luther Strange is going to lose to Roy Moore, who will overtake Rand Paul as McConnell's biggest problem in his own party
3) Corker backed out, opening the door to yet another clusterfuck primary or potentially even an unexpected lost seat
4) The University of Louisville, McConnell's team, was just implicated in the biggest scandal in college basketball history.

I bet he's regretting coming out of his shell at all this morning.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:27 PM on September 26 [62 favorites]


There's also the possibility that a retiring Corker will turn into a full-blown deficit hawk now, since he's got nothing to run for, and he'll screw up their precious tax cuts.
posted by zachlipton at 1:31 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]


eye roll so hard you go blind and then you knock over an oil lamp and then everything is on fire but you don't even care you just want it to be done and anyways burning alive feels better than listening to this shit again"

This is on my BINGO card too.
posted by RolandOfEld at 1:33 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


Tennessee is also voting for governor in 2018, and our current Republican governor is term limited, so he and Corker might both be interested in switching seats.

Meanwhile, Marsha Blackburn wants Congress to vote on flag/anthem etiquette.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 1:33 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


via Tom Williams, this is a lovely photo (TL) of Senators Collins and Heitkamp after it was announced that Graham-Cassidy would be pulled.
posted by lalex at 1:34 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


The governor thing is a wrinkle, a lot of possible GOP folks may be tempted by that instead of the Senate seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:35 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


you're gonna need more squares on that BINGO card.

how about IOKiYAR?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 1:35 PM on September 26


Let's take stock of how Mitch McConnell's day is going:
1) ACA repeal failed, again
2) Luther Strange is going to lose to Roy Moore, who will overtake Rand Paul as McConnell's biggest problem in his own party
3) Corker backed out, opening the door to yet another clusterfuck primary or potentially even an unexpected lost seat
4) The University of Louisville, McConnell's team, was just implicated in the biggest scandal in college basketball history.


tl;dr:

Sweet Clyde! Laugh derisively at him!
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:37 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


Video explaining US territories, including Puerto Rico
posted by delicious-luncheon at 1:38 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


Apparently the USNS Comfort is docked in Norfolk right now, with "no plans to deploy."

This is depraved indifference murder.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:40 PM on September 26 [63 favorites]


I really hope Spicer goes completely broke paying legal bills and never cashes in on that speaking career he's desperate for.

Let's take stock of how Mitch McConnell's day is going:

While we're all enjoying a little afternoon schadenfreude, this Jezebel piece on Megyn Kelly's new show is worth a sniff. I hope White Santa was as embarrassed to do it as I was to read about it.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:42 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


PR and USVI are unincorporated organized territories. American Samoa (and some other very small places) are unincorporated unorganized territories. /pedant
posted by orrnyereg at 1:46 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Apparently the USNS Comfort is docked in Norfolk right now, with "no plans to deploy."

It's my understanding that the Comfort needs a deepwater port that Puerto Rico doesn't have. If true this is one that can't be laid at Trump's feet.
posted by scalefree at 1:48 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]



Hey, maybe Spicey will have to write a tell-all book to pay his lawyer bills.


Isn't there some law about profiting from the story of your crimes? Or will it be lost in litigation like OJ Simpson's book?
posted by tilde at 1:48 PM on September 26


Oh, oh, dentist office report (yes, I'm here a LOT). They've got Ellen on the TV. Jane Fonda!
posted by tilde at 1:50 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Tennessee is a state where the right splitting could really help. Nashville is one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country, and Corker only narrowly won over Harold Ford in 2006. A MAGA vs. Establishment split with no runoff would have huge potential for a Todd Akin / Sharon Angle situation.

Except there is nearly no Democratic party organization in Tennessee anymore. Ford Jr. kept it close when there was no incumbent, sure, but in 2012 there was no serious opponent to Corker on the ballot, a random nutter won the D nomination by being alphabetically first on the ballot, and the state party had to come out and ask people not to vote for him.
posted by ghharr at 1:50 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Catherine Rampell: What might Corker be referring to here?
“I also believe the most important public service I have to offer our country could well occur over the next 15 months, and I want to be able to do that as thoughtfully and independently as I did the first 10 years and nine months of my Senate career."
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:50 PM on September 26 [16 favorites]


It's my understanding that the Comfort needs a deepwater port that Puerto Rico doesn't have. If true this is one that can't be laid at Trump's feet.

Everything is laid at his feet. He's the president. If that resource isn't appropriate for PR, then something else should be sent.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:51 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


Actually a Corker / Haslam swap might be the best case scenario for Tennessee, considering the rest of the state Republicans.
posted by ghharr at 1:52 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


The Comfort doesn't need a deep water port to be of assistance because it doesn't have to berth to operate. It's a hospital ship. Smaller craft can go out to it.
posted by Burhanistan at 1:57 PM on September 26 [54 favorites]


It looks like they just announced that the Comfort will go to PR. Thanks, Hillary!

Clinton pressed Trump to deploy hospital ship Comfort to Puerto Rico. Now it’s on the way.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 2:05 PM on September 26 [95 favorites]


Video explaining US territories, including Puerto Rico

I'm disappointed it wasn't School House Rock style.

"I'm just a territory. Yes I'm only a territory. And I'm stuck here in state purgatory."
posted by Talez at 2:07 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


Clinton pressed Trump to deploy hospital ship Comfort to Puerto Rico. Now it’s on the way.

Imagine what it would be like to have a president that doesn't need to be pressed into saving lives.
posted by mcduff at 2:08 PM on September 26 [73 favorites]


It's my understanding that the Comfort needs a deepwater port that Puerto Rico doesn't have.

I kind of doubt that. The USNS Comfort is less than 70,000 tons. The Royal Caribbean Adventure docks weekly in San Juan and it is 137,000 tons, almost twice the size and has a draft of 28 feet.
posted by JackFlash at 2:09 PM on September 26 [17 favorites]




CNN: Exclusive: IRS shares information with special counsel in Russia probe
The IRS is now sharing information with special counsel Robert Mueller about key Trump campaign officials, after the two entities clashed this summer over both the scope of the investigation into Russia's meddling in the 2016 election and a raid on former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort's home, people briefed on the matter tell CNN. [...]

After several months of being at odds, one source said, the IRS Criminal Investigation division is now sharing information about campaign associates, including Manafort and former White House national security adviser Michael Flynn. The sharing happened after the two camps reached an agreement following consultation with officials at the Treasury Department.

CNN has learned the IRS Criminal Investigation agents had been working with the FBI to investigate Manafort since before the election in a similar probe that centered on possible money laundering and tax fraud issues, according to the sources. It's unclear if Flynn is now or was previously under investigation by the IRS. CNN has reported that Mueller's team is examining Flynn's payments from Turkey and Russia.
Exciting!
posted by lalex at 2:15 PM on September 26 [51 favorites]


Well, at least our foreign policy is going to be twice as nuanced.
posted by Cold Lurkey at 2:15 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


AP: Homeland Security now says Wisconsin elections not targeted
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security reversed course Tuesday and told Wisconsin officials that the Russian government did not scan the state’s voter registration system.

Homeland Security told state elections officials on Friday that Wisconsin was one of 21 states targeted by the Russians, raising concerns about the safety and security of the state’s election systems even though no data had been compromised. But in an email to the state’s deputy elections administrator that was provided to reporters at the Wisconsin Elections Commission meeting on Tuesday, Homeland Security said that initial notice was in error.

“Based on our external analysis, the WI IP address affected belongs to the WI Department of Workforce Development, not the Elections Commission,” said the email from Juan Figueroa, with Homeland Security’s Office of Infrastructure Protection.
...
“Either they were right on Friday and this is a cover up, or they were wrong on Friday and we deserve an apology,” Mark Thomsen, the commission’s chairman, said in light of the new email.
Given that it's nearly October 2017, how is this all still some kind of giant mystery?
posted by zachlipton at 2:30 PM on September 26 [16 favorites]


That's just what happens when you hire The Best People, zachlipton.
posted by tivalasvegas at 2:31 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


This IRS news makes me think Manafort's lawyer's records were subpoena-ble because she filed false documents/returns (one of the exceptions to attorney-client privilege). This is getting exciting (for a tax person at least)!
posted by melissasaurus at 2:32 PM on September 26 [24 favorites]


Pence: "“We’ve all got a right to our opinions,” Pence told the crowd, “but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that players in the National Football League to stand for our national anthem.”

Emphasis not added.
posted by JackFlash at 2:32 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


The National Football League has its own anthem?
posted by mazola at 2:36 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


AP: Homeland Security now says Wisconsin elections not targeted

The Russians don't need to target Wisconsin. The state's own governor and representatives do the targeting all on their own with heinous voter id laws and other modes of suppressing the D vote.
posted by dis_integration at 2:42 PM on September 26 [32 favorites]


There is damage to ports and airfields that they have to work around and fix first. There's a rundown of what we're currently doing to help Puerto Rico here. We've already got three big ships in the area, Kearsarge, Oak Hill, and Wasp, instead of Comfort.

Regardless of Trump's involvement or lack thereof, the people down the chain of command certainly seem to be doing their best already.
posted by creampuff at 2:42 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


When I pointed out that Washington D.C. isn't a state, he doubled down and said it wasn't part of the country either.

The followup to that is, "so... when congress is in session, they're not protected by US laws? You can't be arrested for crimes in DC, because it's not part of the US?"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:47 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Nah, waste of time to "follow up" unless you're dealing with a sentient being.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:49 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


When I pointed out that Washington D.C. isn't a state, he doubled down and said it wasn't part of the country either.

That's basically a tenet of sovereign citizenry.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:53 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


NYT: Chuck Rosenberg, acting DEA chief and Comey confidant, will resign, believes Trump has little respect for the law.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:53 PM on September 26 [41 favorites]


That's just what happens when you hire The Best People, zachlipton.

Top. Men.
posted by kirkaracha at 2:56 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


Two more VA gov polls (when it rains, it pours, I guess):

Roanoke has Northam up 47-43
PPP has Northam up 43-40
posted by Chrysostom at 3:06 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


anyone who's over 50 has not been in public school for over 30 years. So I feel like the rest of society, outside our public school system, is probably part of the problem.

I can certainly agree with that. But I think the school system has a lot to do with that - we have school for 5-10 year olds, who are squirmy and hard to get to pay attention, because what they learn and how they learn in those years will shape their understandings and ability to learn for the rest of their lives. And we've now had several generations of control and confusion as the central focus of education, with academic details shoved aside, until we have a large, vocal minority of the electorate that truly believes that it's okay if the president is functionally illiterate.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:08 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]


And we've now had several generations of control and confusion as the central focus of education

**Gatto fan squee**
posted by LooseFilter at 3:12 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]




God 2017 has pushed that old "rules lawyering so you can't call me racist" game from "tedious" to "unbearably exhausting" . . . It's actually a good sign that more people are less bold in wrapping themselves up in overt racism, but damn, sometimes it's easy to forget and long for these assholes to have the courage of their shitty little convictions.

lol maybe it took you until 2017, but that's been the PoC experience since, well, always. Dave Chappelle was joking about it in the 90's.
posted by joedan at 3:23 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


> @cjelli's link above about Sessions comparing student protesters to the KKK reminds me an awful lot of Governor Rhodes' statement about Kent State the day before they shot those kids

FYI I believe they're going to cover Kent State on tonight's episode of The Vietnam War.
posted by homunculus at 3:26 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


lol maybe it took you until 2017, but that's been the PoC experience since, well, always.

Obviously, yes. I was just venting out of exasperation.
posted by jason_steakums at 3:36 PM on September 26


Bleh I just realized that could read as a snide tone in text only. Sub "obviously" for "absolutely".
posted by jason_steakums at 3:42 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]




a high school coach who was fired for publicly praying on the field. He was fired by a school, which is a little different

It's a lot different if this was a public school. That makes him a public employee on public property, not a private employee on private property.
posted by spitbull at 4:02 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


Gen Hayden, former CIA and NSA director: If Forced To Choose, Put Me Down With Kaepernick.

Why does it require force to make you choose between racism and justice?
posted by srboisvert at 4:03 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


Pence: "“We’ve all got a right to our opinions,” Pence told the crowd, “but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that players in the National Football League to stand for our national anthem.”

And when you play in the World Series, you must swear fealty to the One World Government.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:04 PM on September 26 [59 favorites]


Pence: "“We’ve all got a right to our opinions,” Pence told the crowd, “but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that players in the National Football League to stand for our national anthem.”

It's not too much to ask. It's too much to demand.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 4:07 PM on September 26 [103 favorites]


Why does it require force to make you choose between racism and justice?

Well, you must realize that Hayden is contemptible.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:13 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


Tennessean: With the collapse of the GOP’s last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare, Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) said Tuesday he is restarting bipartisan talks to stabilize health insurance markets and bring down premiums.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:17 PM on September 26 [29 favorites]


Regardless of Trump's involvement or lack thereof, the people down the chain of command certainly seem to be doing their best already.

So I think the problem here is while it's hard to say what the "best" really is for any kind of relief effort and definitely this one: it was a huge storm and maybe very hard to respond to effectively (and never mind that the US federal government has been letting infra problems fester in Puerto Rico for probably decades). BUT, the top leadership of the US executive seems completely uninterested in effective or proactive response. I mean we're asking whether Trump even knew that Puerto Ricans are Americans. Deep skepticism as to whether he (or his people) are actually sufficiently prioritizing and resourcing relief efforts is not unwarranted.
posted by R343L at 4:33 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


“We’re getting great reviews,” said the President of relief efforts.

*sigh*
*rubs bridge of nose*
[/real]

Like, I knew, but at the same time I had some inexplicable, fleeting hope that perhaps, maybe, it was . . . no, of course. Of course it's real. The man is seriously ill and a danger to all of us. Christ.
posted by petebest at 4:59 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

Dem GAIN in Florida Senate 40, 51-47. Clinton had won this district 58-40, but it traditionally split their ballots; R rep had won 51-41 in 2016.

This seat was considered critical for the Dems if they are to retake the FL Senate in 2018.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:03 PM on September 26 [72 favorites]


huh I never saw a picture of Bob Corker before today. I guess he's Steve Carrell at 75?

Oddly, just a few days ago I saw a photo of the Koch Brothers and thought that one of them* looked remarkably like Stephen Colbert at 80. Even Steph/ven, anyone?

*Dunno which one that is and not gonna look it up because fuck those guys
posted by ricochet biscuit at 5:06 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


With the collapse of the GOP’s last-ditch effort to repeal Obamacare, Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) said Tuesday he is restarting bipartisan talks to stabilize health insurance markets and bring down premiums.

So first Alexander says, no deal, we're done. Then he turns back around and says, forget that, let's start again. How can anyone negotiate with these clowns? Anything they agree to is going to be sellout to Republicans for dubious benefits.
posted by JackFlash at 5:15 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Quick update from UC Berkeley. I decided to walk over and check out today's right wing rally. On the way over I saw about 20 guys, one of them in paintball armor, walking with American flags. They were trailed by a lone bicycle cop struggling to keep from falling over due to lack of forward momentum.

A shirtless guy with a flag sticking out of his backpack walked up behind them and yelled "OK men, drop down and give me 20!" I thought it was a joke, but I looked back and a couple of them were doing push-ups together. It may have been the most insecure thing I've ever witnessed, which is saying a lot coming from me.

I guess there were about 200 protesters earlier in the day. I kept getting text updates from campus police about their movements. I'm sure security cost another $600,000 today. God knows I saw a ton of cops today. There was even an armored personnel carrier, because of course there was. We can add those costs to the running total of $1.4 million from Sunday and Monday. Remember when Berkeley couldn't afford to share open lecture videos because it would have cost $1 million to add ADA-compliant closed captioning? Nice to know that our tuition is going towards Milo Yiannopoulos' pathetic comeback.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 5:17 PM on September 26 [59 favorites]


“We’re getting great reviews,” said the President of relief efforts.

A++ Would hurricane again!
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:18 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


“We’re getting great reviews,” said the President of relief efforts.

I heard this statement on the radio as he was reading it out, and it really cannot be overstated how alarmingly confused he sounded throughout. Weird, long pauses between words, obviously forgetting the beginning of the sentence before getting to the end and consequently stressing the wrong clauses. The man can't even read a prepared text and convincingly appear to understand what he's reading.
posted by contraption at 5:23 PM on September 26 [10 favorites]


This seat was considered critical for the Dems if they are to retake the FL Senate in 2018.

Well, hot damn! I'll take every bit of good news out there. I raise my g&t to thee, Florida.
posted by greermahoney at 5:24 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]



Clinton pressed Trump to deploy hospital ship Comfort to Puerto Rico


I hate that I have lived a life that makes me sure I'm right about this, but: she didn't press him. I mean, she did, but the pressure was a cover to mask what she was really doing. what she did, more masterfully than I have ever seen it done but not so masterfully you can't tell, was

INFORM DONALD TRUMP THERE IS A HOSPITAL SHIP CALLED THE "COMFORT"

and also

INFORM DONALD TRUMP THAT PUERTO RICANS ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS.

the way she wrote "these are American citizens," so that everybody else would read that as moral indignation but Donald Trump would say, what? is she crazy? is that true? and then he did the thing, because that is what you do when you need to act like you knew these things all along.

she's not even a teacher. but women who spend their long lives trying not to blatantly talk down to or perceptibly talk over people less informed and less intelligent but much more vocal than they are, they know how to educate. she is so sly he barely felt the needle. he would never take a geopolitics lesson from her, but being made to feel small and being scared into acting big, that he can do. only in the most barbaric societies do women need to learn to be such subtle movers, but her skills are really tremendous.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:30 PM on September 26 [193 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

GOP HOLD in Florida House 116, 66-34. The district had gone Clinton 51-46, but R had won 62-38 in the 2016 election for the seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:32 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


The White House also put out a statement to explain how the Governor of Puerto Rico thanked Trump over and over.
posted by zachlipton at 5:43 PM on September 26


Good news, everyone: Roy Moore is pretty sure that Illinois is under Sharia law.

(Although for me the real money quote is: "Sharia law incorporates Muslim law into the law. That’s not what we do. We do not punish people according to the Christian precepts of our faith — so there’s a difference." -- BITCH THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT YOU HAVE SPENT YOUR ENTIRE CAREER TRYING TO DO.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:50 PM on September 26 [81 favorites]


Why do I suspect that if you dig back far enough, somebody in the Puerto Rican local government denied Trump a request to build a resort there and this is his payback?

Would you believe instead that the Trump International Golf Club Puerto Rico went bankrupt in 2015? Eric Trump explained lied at the time, "We merely licensed our name for a fee and have nothing to do with the ownership, development or entity."

The real story is, unsurprisingly, much shadier—and wound up costing Puerto Rican taxpayers as much as $32.7 million.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:57 PM on September 26 [33 favorites]


They're already basically calling AL-Sen for Roy Moore, as if there was even a question. He's up 12% and there's no "Strange stronghold" out there.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

Dem GAIN in Florida Senate 40, 51-47. Clinton had won this district 58-40, but it traditionally split their ballots; R rep had won 51-41 in 2016.

This seat was considered critical for the Dems if they are to retake the FL Senate in 2018.


All the more impressive considering the state Democratic party had asked the governor to delay the election after the district was hit hard by Irma--and the governor, recognizing that the hurricane would have made it harder for poorer, Democratic-leaning people to vote, refused.
posted by duffell at 6:04 PM on September 26 [23 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

Dem HOLD in South Carolina House 31, 91-9. Clinton had won district 72-24; D had won district 77-23 in 2016.

No surprise here, but a considerable swing towards the Dems.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:05 PM on September 26 [32 favorites]


Hey gang long time no chit chat are we going to post and talk about election results tonight? Are we? I haven't done that in a while can I play? I know it is a shitty game sometimes but I want to play. When do the polls close in Alabama?
posted by vrakatar at 6:07 PM on September 26


idk anything about Taddeo but Rick Wilson retweeted a FL politics guy who got a text from a top Dem fundraiser saying: "Trump has done the impossible...get Annette Taddeo elected."
posted by lalex at 6:08 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


The more I read about Moore the more mad I get. Those of us in blue states can donate to Alabama groups that are doing voter registration and voting rights activism.

Alabama folks, please let us know if there are registration efforts we can support, especially any focused on parolees (in May 2017 Alabama restored voting rights to people convicted of lesser felonies) and efforts on college campuses, given the sheer numbers.

These are just the top 5 schools in terms of population----
- University of Alabama: 36,000 students
- Troy University: 28,000 students
- Auburn University: 26,000 students (some students were working on getting a polling place)
- University of Alabama at Birmingham: 17,000 students
- University of South Alabama: 15,000 students

The deadline to register is 15 days before election day so there is some time but not a lot of time! ACLU Alabama has a thorough voting rights tool kit.
posted by spamandkimchi at 6:08 PM on September 26 [24 favorites]


in Alabama it's all over but the crying. (and the AP call, I guess)
posted by lalex at 6:09 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Well, I just donated to Doug Jones. I doubt that he has a snowball's chance, BUT the Democrats have to try to show that they are making an attempt to be a true national party, as well as to gauge support. When Sessions ran last time he was literally unopposed.
posted by dhens at 6:10 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


So. United States Senator Roy Moore.

Dear God.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:11 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


Good news, everyone: Roy Moore is pretty sure that Illinois is under Sharia law.

He isn't even smart enough to parrot the talking points. Everyone knows that Dearborn, Michigan is under sharia law.
posted by Etrigan at 6:12 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


Roy Moore only won his election for Alabama Supreme Court by 3 points, there's not much hope, but it's more like a snowball in the Sahara than a snowball in hell.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:13 PM on September 26


All the more impressive considering the state Democratic party had asked the governor to delay the election after the district was hit hard by Irma--and the governor, recognizing that the hurricane would have made it harder for poorer, Democratic-leaning people to vote, refused.

When Irma was rolling into Florida, my girlfriend and I were making the last minute preparations and, in the background, the governor held a news conference on TV to talk about evacuations and safety. She scoffed at his alleged compassion (we're no fans of him), but I said that in times of major crisis like this I have to believe that he genuinely wants to keep Floridians safe. Why is that? Because if the whole state dies on his watch, it would hurt his future political ambitions. He can't very well run for Senate from a state where there's nobody left to vote for him.
posted by Servo5678 at 6:14 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


We're talking about Roy Stewart Moore, bonerchamp of the Ten Commandments, running for Senate in Alabama--so he could pretty much be caught live on camera smearing butter on the pages of his family bible and fucking the Song of Songs while whistling I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy, and he'd still win against John Q. Democrat in a landslide.
posted by duffell at 6:18 PM on September 26 [21 favorites]


Annette Taddeo in Florida was one of the candidates supported by Postcards to Voters, which helps volunteers send handwritten postcards to voters in winnable local elections, reminding them to vote. This is my periodic reminder that it's a relatively painless way to get involved in GOTV if you aren't the kind of person who would enjoy phone calling or door knocking.

And yeah, it's hard to envision a scenario in which Moore doesn't win. Which is horrifying, but we're living in 2017, so it's like the fifth most horrifying thing I've heard today.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:21 PM on September 26 [18 favorites]


As noted, Moore has performed poorly in some past elections. Is he probably going to win the general? Sure, but it's not 100%. Maybe 80%.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:23 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Alabama demographics. AL voting demographics as infographic.

I know the 2014 Gubernatorial election results don't look good for keeping Moore away from the Senate:
Republican 750,231
Democrat 427,787
But that was 41% turnout. "About 1.17 million of the state's roughly 2.9 million registered voters"

I'll definitely kick a bit of $$ to Jones' campaign but generally even the most well oiled of campaigns only targets likely voters. I want to support folks who are reaching out to the 1.7 million potential voters.

p.s. There are deep blue counties in Alabama.
posted by spamandkimchi at 6:24 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


WMURTV (idk, it's a TV station in New Hampshire): "Unofficial result from Sandown: Lerner (D) 294; Headd (R) 236; Jarvis 17: Big upset Democrat Lerner wins special..."

That's a flip, and an upset, in the NH House of Representatives' special held to replace the district's deceased member.
posted by lalex at 6:24 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


And yeah, it's hard to envision a scenario in which Moore doesn't win. Which is horrifying, but we're living in 2017, so it's like the fifth most horrifying thing I've heard today.

Wait until Kennedy retires and they put him on SCOTUS, with review shortcut by a frisson of that famous Senatorial 'comity.'
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:25 PM on September 26


Kari Lerner was another Postcards to Voters candidate, by the way.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:26 PM on September 26 [14 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION UPDATE

Dem GAIN in New Hampshire House Rockingham-4, 50-48. Trump had won this district 59-36, so major swing to the Dems.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:26 PM on September 26 [20 favorites]


SPECIAL ELECTION SUMMARY

1 GOP Hold (FL House)
1 Dem Hold (SC House)
2 Dem Gains (FL Senate & NH House)
posted by Chrysostom at 6:28 PM on September 26 [24 favorites]


I'm from Alabama. Moore's going to Washington.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:28 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


Oh, I'm not saying it's not worth fighting Moore--especially since his opponent, Doug Jones, is a stand-up guy! And I agree completely that we need to be fighting everywhere, and need to keep fighting, and need to give a reason for people to show up at the polls. Hell, I'll throw money and phone banking time at Jones myself. But Moore is gonna be placing his hand on that greasy, fucked-to-death family bible as he intones the oath of office regardless.
posted by duffell at 6:29 PM on September 26


lalex: "idk anything about Taddeo but Rick Wilson retweeted a FL politics guy who got a text from a top Dem fundraiser saying: "Trump has done the impossible...get Annette Taddeo elected.""

She'd lost a couple of previous elections, so.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:32 PM on September 26


@realDonaldTrump
Even Usain Bolt from Jamaica, one of the greatest runners and athletes of all time, showed RESPECT for our National Anthem!


Look, black guys: even this super black guy made obeisance! C'mon! What do you have to lose???
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:34 PM on September 26 [31 favorites]


Wait until Kennedy retires and they put him [Roy Moore] on SCOTUS, with review shortcut by a frisson of that famous Senatorial 'comity.'

Y u do dis? Now I will never sleep again.
posted by dhens at 6:37 PM on September 26 [13 favorites]


The cool (and by cool I mean, "horrifying," of course) thing about Moore is that he's like Trumpier than Trump. Like for these totally fucked in the head lunatic voters, Trump is just. not. quite. incompetent, rambling, and shitty enough. Nope, he's like totally establishment mainstream, yessirree. Mr. Centrist. GAG ME.

Basically, my entire bucket list at this point is: 1) piss on Trump's grave.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:38 PM on September 26 [16 favorites]


AP called it officially for Moore.

The general is December 12. Help Doug Jones here.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:39 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Even Usain Bolt from Jamaica, one of the greatest runners and athletes of all time, showed RESPECT for our National Anthem!

Look, black guys: even this super black guy made obeisance! C'mon! What do you have to lose???


Oh gee yes it's obviously totally and utterly not about race.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:40 PM on September 26 [20 favorites]


Not that it or anything else matters but that Usain Bolt video is from 2012
posted by theodolite at 6:42 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


Even his name says U-S-A! [fake for now]
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:44 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


So we can probably expect Bolt to express support for the NFL protestors in 5, 4, 3...
posted by jason_steakums at 6:45 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


The former official added the IRS is very restricted in what information it can share under Title 26 US Code and would normally need a specific grand jury subpoena in order to share tax returns with another agency.

That's kind of a broad citation... Anyone know what the specific statutes are?
posted by Coventry at 6:46 PM on September 26


So, given that Roy Moore's so bad, whats up DNCCC?

I keep thinking our - whatever the metaphor for them is - is not very good. Like, they've always kind of sucked but it wasn't ever so . . . gruesome. You've got the most unpopular Predisent in history, access to millions of people directly for basically free, and you're still losing to cheap-ass, peeing-on-themselves, not-even-trying evil.

And no, don't call me. That's like your one move. BUY A NEW MOVE, DNC.
posted by petebest at 6:46 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


felliniBlank real or fake please help me.
posted by vrakatar at 6:47 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Roy Moore being Roy Moore wasn't enough to dissuade the Alabama electorate.

Now think about _just how far over all conceivable lines of decency_ Moore would have to go in speech or deed to lose this election.

At least Louie Gohmert's title of The Dumbest Man In Washington is not in danger. Moore is not stupid, just earth-shatteringly ignorant.
posted by delfin at 6:48 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


McConnell's job is about to get a lot harder. So, silver lining or whatever.
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:53 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


If Senator Roy Moore shows us one thing, it's that Trumpism is beholden to nobody, not even Trump.
posted by Talez at 6:55 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


Legal Services Alabama is doing voter rights restoration clinics!
posted by spamandkimchi at 6:56 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


petebest: "So, given that Roy Moore's so bad, whats up DNCCC?

I keep thinking our - whatever the metaphor for them is - is not very good. Like, they've always kind of sucked but it wasn't ever so . . . gruesome. You've got the most unpopular Predisent in history, access to millions of people directly for basically free, and you're still losing to cheap-ass, peeing-on-themselves, not-even-trying evil.

And no, don't call me. That's like your one move. BUY A NEW MOVE, DNC.
"

What did you expect the DSCC - that's who handles Senate races, not the DNC - to do in a *Republican* primary? They got probably the best Democratic candidate possible as the nominee - this is Alabama, there's not a deep bench - and it sounds like there's going to be lots of support from national Dems for him.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:57 PM on September 26 [32 favorites]


Roy Moore being Roy Moore wasn't enough to dissuade the Alabama electorate.

Well, the Republican primary electorate. Alabama sure isn't sending their best, they're bringing hate, they're bringing racism, but some, I assume, are good people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]


What did you expect the DSCC - that's who handles Senate races, not the DNC - to do in a *Republican* primary?

The DNC are expert at rigging elections! Surely rigging the Republican primary was not beyond them!?! Or something.
posted by Justinian at 6:59 PM on September 26 [7 favorites]


So, for a dose of levity, Language Log is looking at nicknames/transliterations of Trump's name in Sinitic languages. Particularly promising examples include 特沒譜 ("especially clueless") in China and 도람프 ("Crazy-ump", more or less) in South Korea.
posted by jackbishop at 7:01 PM on September 26 [10 favorites]


Politco: Russian-funded Facebook ads backed Stein, Sanders and Trump.

Shocked, shocked that there is gambling going on in this establishment.
posted by Justinian at 7:01 PM on September 26 [77 favorites]


538: Bad day for the GOP establishment
posted by Chrysostom at 7:04 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


So, for a dose of levity, Language Log is looking at nicknames/transliterations of Trump's name in Sinitic languages. Particularly promising examples include 特沒譜 ("especially clueless") in China and 도람프 ("Crazy-ump", more or less) in South Korea.

Korean is not a Sinitic language.
posted by anem0ne at 7:06 PM on September 26 [12 favorites]


Help Doug Jones

if a cleverly disguised Kyle Maclachlan can't defeat just about anybody -- well, I'm sure he can. he'll end up making friends of Roy Moore and Luther Strange in the end.

you know if I worked for any Alabama Democratic organization I'd be sending out phone banking volunteer requests with the subject CALL FOR HELP so it's just as well I don't
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:06 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


I feel the same right now as I did on election night but not quite as intense.

Senator Roy Moore.

I thought we would eventually hit rock bottom but we just keep plumbing new lows.

This is how it felt to live through the Reagan years, right?
posted by Talez at 7:06 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


greasy, fucked-to-death family bible

There's the name. Now I just need to form the band.
posted by delfin at 7:07 PM on September 26 [21 favorites]


This is how it felt to live through the Reagan years, right?

Well, we had bigger hair then.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:17 PM on September 26 [23 favorites]


some of us just had hair
posted by entropicamericana at 7:19 PM on September 26 [15 favorites]


Bigger hair, smaller despair.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:20 PM on September 26 [11 favorites]


If Senator Roy Moore shows us one thing, it's that Trumpism is beholden to nobody, not even Trump.

I still think that Trump had no idea who Strange or Moore were and somebody just got him to back their guy even though Moore is clearly the most Trumpian of the two. I was actually kind of expecting Trump to stab Strange in the back at the 11th hour to back the easy win and go all "fake news" on his former support of Strange, tbh.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:22 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


538: Bad day for the GOP establishment

That article comes from the increasingly-less-tenable position that the President of the United States, who is a Republican, his cabinet, which is largely made up of Republican former congresspeople and representatives of the party's most stalwart supporters in industry, and 80% of GOP voters do not represent the "GOP establishment."

It's Trump's party. McConnell's just along for the ride.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:25 PM on September 26 [30 favorites]


>This is how it felt to live through the Reagan years, right?

That's harder to answer than it seems. I was young and strong during the Reagan years. I am no longer young and strong.
posted by acrasis at 7:29 PM on September 26 [22 favorites]


Video of Rachel Maddow, MSNBC, interviewing the Mayor of San Juan, Puerto Rico, Carmen Yulin Cruz.
posted by gudrun at 7:32 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


Moore winning decisively can't make Dean Heller and Jeff Flake feel good, both also down decisively in early primary polling. It might not matter in Alabama, but Nevada and Arizona are not Alabama. Even Tennessee isn't Alabama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:39 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


Basically, my entire bucket list at this point is: 1) piss on Trump's grave.
posted by FelliniBlank


Yeah, my bucket list was to piss on Nixon's. When I got there the line was so long I had to piss in the bucket instead.
posted by Floydd at 7:47 PM on September 26 [20 favorites]


At this point Nixon would've been hailed as a mavericky moderate if not in the DNC wing of the Democratic party.

All that piss wasted.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:52 PM on September 26 [6 favorites]


wtf Trump is deleting his tweets supporting Luther Strange? LMFAO
posted by lalex at 7:53 PM on September 26 [85 favorites]


In case you were wondering how The_Donald folks are handling the Strange loss:

Pedes that don't know, Strange was a swamp creature. And under corruption investigation in the past. He was also under the thumb of Mitch mccconnel. Trump had to come out in support of strange because he was "loyal to Trump" in the beginning of the primaries. Moore was not initially, but Alabamians know that Moore will work with Trump in draining the swamp. Strange was a hollow MAGA shell filled with RINO votes. Moore was the only choice and the people who love trump know it. Trust us pedes!
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 8:14 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


Does he...does he think we won't notice? I mean, he's obviously pleased with the fact that they broadcast his tweets on cable news, so shouldn't he be aware that people are staying on top of what he says?
posted by zachlipton at 8:15 PM on September 26 [3 favorites]


When has he ever given a shit about that?
posted by rhizome at 8:30 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


The general is December 12.

I did not know there was a general election for this. I thought the winner of tonight's election was the new Senator for Alabama. I can't say I give a Democrat much hope of winning there, but I'm at least slightly relieved.
posted by dnash at 8:37 PM on September 26


> I can't say I give a Democrat much hope of winning there, but I'm at least slightly relieved.

Matt Yglesias, Vox: Democrats ought to invest in Doug Jones’s campaign against Roy Moore
Politics is weird and unpredictable. When Donald Trump announced his candidacy for president, nobody thought he was going to win. Most people thought he wasn’t even seriously running. Nobody thought Scott Brown could win a Senate seat in Massachusetts, and the GOP congressional landslide of 2010 even involved winning an improbable Senate race in Illinois.

Moore himself seemed like a real underdog in the Alabama primary at one point, having lost — rather badly — to establishment Republicans in earlier primary bids for governor and Senate. Tuesday night, a Democratic candidate won a state legislature special election in New Hampshire in a district Trump carried by 23 points.

Which is just to say that while states and districts have real leans and real tendency, there is an irreducible element of chance and unpredictability to politics. What’s not unpredictable is that Moore would make a bad senator and that it’s an embarrassment to the Alabama Republican Party that they would nominate him for high office. In Jones, Democrats have a worthy candidate. They ought to get behind him in a serious way.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:41 PM on September 26 [30 favorites]


Zac McCrary is an Alabama Democratic pollster, and he thinks Moore is beatable, maybe. There's a least a chance worth fighting for.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:43 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


Good news, everyone: Roy Moore is pretty sure that Illinois is under Sharia law.

I guessing he is thinking of Chicago, home of Kenyan Barrack Obama. And the mayor is Rahm Emanuel. That's got to be a Muslim name, right?
posted by JackFlash at 8:45 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


If Trump could beat Clinton after all that oppo droppo, anything is possible I suppose.
posted by Coventry at 8:49 PM on September 26


Trump had to come out in support of strange because he was "loyal to Trump" in the beginning of the primaries.

I see we're at the "Trump cannot fail, he can only be failed" stage.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:53 PM on September 26 [16 favorites]


>This is how it felt to live through the Reagan years, right?

well there were a lot more Roland TR-808s around
posted by entropicamericana at 8:55 PM on September 26 [20 favorites]


Does he...does he think we won't notice? I mean, he's obviously pleased with the fact that they broadcast his tweets on cable news, so shouldn't he be aware that people are staying on top of what he says?

There you go again applying logic to the behavior of a malignant narcissist. The guy Trump campaigned for losing is BIG hit to his ego, regardless of whether Trump could have picked either of them out of a line-up. People did not do what he said, and that is an injury. So what can Trump do now? The only thing he can do to make himself feel better is to pretend he never supported anyone else. This isn't an attempt to fool anyone else (other people barely exist for him anyway). It's an attempt to fool himself into believing he always supported Moore. Getting rid of the tweets helps him pretend to himself. And he WILL believe he was always right and always supported Moore. Narcissists are delusional in exactly this way: they will believe anything that makes them feel better.
posted by threeturtles at 9:00 PM on September 26 [23 favorites]


well there were a lot more Roland TR-808s around

Today we just have virtual 808s. And virtual politics.
posted by dis_integration at 9:00 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Don't forget virtual currency, virtual property and virtual rights.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:03 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


Trump has started his trade war with Canada, putting a 219% tariff on passenger jets from Bombardier at the request of Boeing. This increases the price of 75 jets that Delta Airlines was preparing to buy from Bombardier from $30 million per plane to nearly $80 million per plane, which will obviously kill the deal.

Meanwhile, Justin Trudeau, in retaliation, is going to kill a $5.2 billion deal to buy F-18 fighters from Boeing.

So Boeing kills a $2.25 Bombardier deal and in retaliation loses a $5.2 billion deal.

Trump, art of the deal. So much winning.
posted by JackFlash at 9:07 PM on September 26 [118 favorites]


Trump, art of the deal. So much winning.

Good. I hope fucko keeps it up, because the only thing that'll eject this motherfucker from office is making big business angry. Let's get those one-percenter monocles popping. Then you'll see some real movement for impeachment and/or 25th Amendment.
posted by CommonSense at 9:11 PM on September 26 [19 favorites]


> The Very Bad Man is answering questions at a press conference with the President of Spain.

Spain is a monarchy, and Rajoy is the Prime Minister, not the President.

It's apparently an easy mistake to make:

Trump repeatedly referred to Rajoy as “president”, even though he is prime minister of the country, which is a monarchy.

Also I'm not sure what the snide comment later in the thread about Assange being a Catalan secessionist was about, but I'd urge anyone who feels vaguely that people should have a right to self-determination to read the linked article in its entirety.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 9:13 PM on September 26 [1 favorite]


Meanwhile, Justin Trudeau, in retaliation, is going to kill a $5.2 billion deal to buy F-18 fighters from Boeing.

Well, this is a stupid pissing contest on both sides, if more Hornets is the smarter move for Canada than getting backing into a downgraded export 5th gen fighter (down the road a few years). I don't see RCAF buying Gripens instead.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:13 PM on September 26




re: wisconsin
Partisan Gerrymandering Heads to Court Test: Can It Go Too Far?
Republicans won less than half the vote for the Wisconsin state Assembly in 2012 -- but they still got more than 60 percent of the seats.

Democrats are blaming the voting map in a U.S. Supreme Court case that could change the rules for drawing election district lines around the country. The question is whether a redistricting map that’s skewed to help one political party is ever so extreme that it violates the Constitution.

It’s a fight that "many consider the most important case involving the structure of American politics in a generation," said Jeffrey Rosen, president of the National Constitution Center.

The case, set for argument Oct. 3, will be one of the first before the justices when they open what promises to be a historic term next week. The court will weigh religious objections to gay marriage, cell-phone privacy and employees’ right to file class-action lawsuits. The justices may add a showdown over public-sector union fees. President Donald Trump’s travel ban might return to the court after being dropped from the October argument calendar.
Trump has started his trade war with Canada, putting a 219% tariff on passenger jets from Bombardier at the request of Boeing.

fwiw, this is (somewhat of) a blow to the tories: "British Prime Minister Theresa May relies on that number of [10] Democratic Unionist Party lawmakers from Northern Ireland to pass some key legislation after losing her parliamentary majority three months ago. So what matters to DUP leader Arlene Foster matters to May, and what matters most to Foster right now is Bombardier Inc." #silverlinings
posted by kliuless at 9:27 PM on September 26 [10 favorites]


They know we can see what they said before, right?

We have always been at Moore with Alabasia.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:28 PM on September 26 [57 favorites]


Moore was the only choice and the people who love trump know it. Trust us pedes!

Am I correct in inferring that r/the_donald uses "pedes" as a general-purpose in-club synonym for "guys" or "folks"?

Because oh my God, that would be... never mind, it's not the slightest bit surprising.
posted by mmoncur at 9:30 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


TRUMP: Have you heard them, folks? Complaining about my deleted Tweets?

Of course I know how Twitter works. Come on folks, do you think I ran -- and everyone is saying it, believe me -- the greatest social media campaign of all campaign -- OF ALL TIME -- without knowing about the deleting? how the deleting works! come on. are you going to believe that? Of course not! Of course not.

You can't make this stuff up folks.

What's important is that there are no tweets about that Strange guy now. And I know you, the Real Americans, I do, and I know you live in the present! Not in the past, like liberals and all those other people!

We live in the present and are going to control the future! And we are going to welcome Roy Moore to Washington DC!


(Fake, for now)
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:31 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


Well, at least our foreign policy is going to be twice as nuanced.

Think that should technically be half: as trump is the twitter metatron of archetypal entropy his fevered emissions actually destroy meaning and nuance.
posted by Buntix at 9:36 PM on September 26 [4 favorites]


@Matt Mackowiak (GOP dude): ".@RepThomasMassie with a keen insight" in the Washington Examiner:
What's going on? Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., one of the most anti-establishment politicians in Washington, explained this very dynamic to us a few months ago:

"I thought they were voting for libertarian Republicans," Massie said of the Republican voters who had delivered the Tea Party victories. "But after some soul-searching, I realized when they voted for Rand and Ron [Paul] and me in these primaries, they weren't voting for libertarian ideas. They were voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race. And Donald Trump won best in class."
posted by lalex at 9:37 PM on September 26 [85 favorites]


Am I correct in inferring that r/the_donald uses "pedes" as a general-purpose in-club synonym for "guys" or "folks"?

yes but they use it as a diminutive for one of nature's horrors, centipedes. I don't know why and I don't care to know, but I know for sure that nobody using the term was ever in my 7th grade french class.
posted by queenofbithynia at 9:41 PM on September 26 [5 favorites]


They really doubled down on that "Deplorables" thing.
posted by Coventry at 9:42 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


mmoncur: "Because oh my God, that would be... never mind, it's not the slightest bit surprising."

Ostensibly, it's short for centipedes, but there might be a wink-wink nudge-nudge for it being a pedophile thing. But this is part of their layers of irony thing. They mix self-deprecating stuff into their messaging to protect their emotions. This is why they talk like comic-book villains and adopt as their mascot a frog that pees with his pants around his ankles. So when they are inevitably made fun of, they can rationalize that to themselves like, "Oh this isn't really about me, this is merely about the character Weeb88Pede that I portray on the internet." If they ever put their 100% sincere opinions on the internet and got made fun of, they wouldn't be able to handle that, emotionally.
posted by RobotHero at 9:47 PM on September 26 [42 favorites]


I'd be surprised if there wasn't a reference to The Human Centipede intended.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:51 PM on September 26


Spain is a monarchy, and Rajoy is the Prime Minister, not the President.

It's apparently an easy mistake to make:

Trump repeatedly referred to Rajoy as “president”, even though he is prime minister of the country, which is a monarchy.


GWB did this too. I think it's because the official title of the Spanish head of government ("prime minister") is "President of the Government" (as in they preside over the legislature).
posted by dhens at 10:06 PM on September 26 [2 favorites]


The centipede stuff is a reference to some meme magic called Can't Stump the Trump Vol 4 which was a mashup between a republican primary debate and a song by Knife Party that sampled a voiceover from a nature documentary. It was given a life of it's own when Trump retweeted a link to it in his Pepe tweet.
posted by peeedro at 10:07 PM on September 26 [8 favorites]


Centipedes are a thousand times cooler than the denizens of r/td, who would better be described as bed bugs
posted by en forme de poire at 10:11 PM on September 26 [9 favorites]


trump-faced human centipede feeding and writhing to dubstep drops forever and ever.
posted by Burhanistan at 12:01 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Always missing from the reams of evidence that Trump is racist is that according to his first wife Ivana's biography Trump kept a book of Hitler's speeches on his bedside for years. She later disavowed it, but ... who makes something like that up? I can't believe more people don't know this.
posted by xammerboy at 12:47 AM on September 27 [4 favorites]


Trump friendship ended with Luther. Now Strange is best friend.
posted by jaduncan at 12:53 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


ugh, do I even post this here?...

Paul Horner, writer of fake news about 2016 election, found dead (CBS)
Horner took on greater prominence during the presidential election when false stories were widely shared on social media during the race between Trump and Hillary Clinton.

In an interview with The Washington Post in 2016, Horner said he thought Trump won the White House because of him. Horner said Trump's supporters didn't fact-check his stories before posting them....

Even members of President Trump's inner circle, including Mr. Trump's son Eric and then-campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, shared links to Horner's content. Horner's stories also made their way to Google News, known to feature stories from reputable news sources.
posted by Sockin'inthefreeworld at 12:55 AM on September 27 [10 favorites]


Mike Pence warns U.S. heading for Canada-style health care if Graham-Cassidy bill fails

“You know, somewhere in between where I’m sitting in Washington, D.C., and (you) Alaska, is a place called Canada. I probably don’t need to tell the people Alaska about the failings of national socialized health care because it’s right in our neighbour and you see the results every day.

Look, we’ve got a choice: It’s between big government, Washington, D.C., solutions that ultimately, I believe, will collapse into single-payer health care – or whether or not we’re going to repeal the (Obamacare) individual mandate.”
I mean, he's not meant to be a Democratic hype man. But I can't lie, seeing single payer get more mainstream discussion is getting me a little hyped.
posted by jaduncan at 12:58 AM on September 27 [58 favorites]


Mike Pence warns U.S. heading for Canada-style health care if Graham-Cassidy bill fails

Canada-style? Canada-style??? Where poor people don't suffer and die from preventable god-given diseases like they are supposed to? The horror! The horror!!!

Sure hope he's right about this...
posted by Hairy Lobster at 1:23 AM on September 27 [51 favorites]


That thing from Pence is hilarious if it weren't so inhumane. "If you don't let us take away insurance from millions and allow tens of thousands needlessly die, then damn it, everyone gets healthcare."

That'll teach'em.
posted by michswiss at 1:49 AM on September 27 [54 favorites]


"If you kids don't shut up, I'm gonna pull this car over at the next Dairy Queen and EVERYONE gets ice cream, then!"
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:57 AM on September 27 [99 favorites]


I think everyone is being just a little unfair, Republicans are only trying to take government out of Medicare. They're not even touching what's left over!

Not even with a stick

On a less sarcastic note, I sure hope someone's around saying that what the Republicans are trying to do, find a free market way to do healthcare that works better than Obamacare, is impossible. Obamacare's about the best you can do with a free market health care system, and it's clunky and overcomplicated and costly because free markets don't work for health care. If you want better than Obamacare, you have to start from different assumptions.
posted by Merus at 2:21 AM on September 27 [11 favorites]


Sorry, I should make that clear: what the Republican donors and politicians have set as their healthcare policy, the 'replace' bit. 'What the Republicans are trying to do' is obviously 'tax cuts for their mates' and drown government in a bathtub under the expectation that government is not actually the organisation that makes the country work, as has been understood since time immemorial.
posted by Merus at 2:31 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Always missing from the reams of evidence that Trump is racist is...

...that in 1989, Trump told Bryant Gumbel in an interview that a "well educated black has a tremendous advantage over a well educated white" and he'd want to be black if he were starting out.
posted by chris24 at 3:39 AM on September 27 [17 favorites]


I also love how comically evil and out of touch the GOP sounds post repeal and replace fail. "Do you want to live in a world where anyone can just see a doctor?! We're heading towards everyone having healthcare! EVERYONE! Even the poors! What will they even do with it, keep all their teeth? Get their children's broken arms attended to instead of waiting around all night? What kind of blasted hellscape will America become? I'll tell you: Canada!!! Is that what you all want???"

It helps if you imagine this in the voice of Mr Burns.
posted by supercrayon at 3:49 AM on September 27 [93 favorites]


Have we tried telling Trump that Medicaid got good ratings?
posted by thelonius at 4:02 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


I've babbled about this before, but one cool thing about Yeats's "Second Coming" is that there are two vortices in the poem; one dissolving in entropy (the falcon cannot hear the falconer) and another forming (the desert birds reel in).

I find this more interesting than the horrifying image of the resurrection of Christ, really, and Yeats's ideas that there was this preset time when everything would unravel (which I think he meant 100 years after his time, which would be like, um, I think nowish).

So: back to Moore's win. I couldn't process it this morning. I was like: Trump like Strange? Strange not win? Not good?

Not knowing about Strange except that a) he's tall and b) Trump supported him and c) he probably not a crazy man and d) Moore most is most certainly dangerously nuts.

And Yeats's vortex thing makes sense, here: we have what we on the blue think as good and fair and just from principles like at least the 18th century and refined onwards, that's one vortex. I guess Yeats's would argue that we're the falcon and the falconer.

And the other vortex, the desert birds reeling in, is the what I describe for lack of time as a wackadoodle concentration of forces. This sort of movement, the concentration of WTF NO is the only way I can wrap my head around Trumpism and how each day we on the blue, probably not crazy people, are aghast and some people in the country are like, 'We need to be more crazy*!' And nominate somebody like Moore.

*Apologies to the mentally ill. It is a lazy metaphor, but it's hard to describe the disconnect from reality in other ways.
posted by angrycat at 4:24 AM on September 27 [17 favorites]


Trump supported Strange like Corbyn supported the Remain campaign.
posted by PenDevil at 4:26 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


It helps if you imagine this in the voice of Mr Burns.
Funny enough I didn't need that prompt ... the cadence triggered it.
posted by tilde at 4:26 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


Military Times: Top military general says he didn't back ban on transgender troops
Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Joseph Dunford said he advised administration officials to let all qualified individuals serve in the military, a view that was ignored when the White House announced its ban on transgender troops this summer.

“I believe that any individual who meets the physical and mental standards … should be afforded the opportunity to continue to serve,” Dunford told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee during his reappointment hearing on Tuesday.

He added that he had previously given that advice to administration officials in private in the past, and told senators he would continue to give that advice if lawmakers allow him to continue in his leadership post for two more years.
posted by chris24 at 4:27 AM on September 27 [13 favorites]


So I haven't caught up on this thread, and apologies if this is redundant. Literal Nazis are celebrating Roy Moore's victory.

You know those disapproval ratings of Trump? How much you want to wager a HUGE chunk of those are racists upset that he's not racist enough?
posted by Yowser at 4:32 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


@realdonaldtrump 5 minutes ago: "With one Yes vote in hospital & very positive signs from Alaska and two others (McCain is out), we have the HCare Vote, but not for Friday!"

??
posted by lalex at 4:37 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


Following up on the ABC/WaPo poll from Monday that showed 86% support DACA, from CNN's new poll:
The poll finds most Americans oppose each of the major initiatives Trump has backed on immigration since taking office: 82% say they want the policy known as DACA to continue, 63% oppose building a wall along the entire border with Mexico, and 55% say they oppose changes in federal law to reduce the number of immigrants who enter the country legally.
So much winning.
posted by chris24 at 4:39 AM on September 27 [18 favorites]


@realdonaldtrump 5 minutes ago: "With one Yes vote in hospital & very positive signs from Alaska and two others (McCain is out), we have the HCare Vote, but not for Friday!"

Followed up with:

@realdonaldtrump: We will have the votes for Healthcare but not for the reconciliation deadline of Friday, after which we need 60. Get rid of Filibuster Rule!

--

I think he's lying to his base – 'don't worry, it'll happen!' – to quell the outrage from some of the nutjobs.
posted by chris24 at 4:41 AM on September 27 [18 favorites]


but who is in the hospital? Have I lost my mind?
posted by lalex at 4:41 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


Grandpa's confused.
posted by chris24 at 4:43 AM on September 27 [16 favorites]


Maybe he thinks Steve Scalise (still in the hospital after the shooting) is a Senator and not a Representative?
posted by zombieflanders at 4:48 AM on September 27 [10 favorites]


Ah the halcyon days when people actually bought that Kelly would be a moderating influence on Trump. Lol.
posted by lydhre at 5:15 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]


I honestly wonder what Pence means when he says he can see the results of Canadian health care? A healthier populace? Fewer bankruptcies caused by medical bills? Yeah, it's a real hellscape up here, all right.
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:18 AM on September 27 [33 favorites]


I don't know about you guys, but I'm sure tired of all this winning.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 5:19 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


Grandpa's confused, but not so confused he thought Scalise was a senator.

@seungminkim (Politico)
Thad Cochran is in Mississippi recovering from urological issue but NOT hospitalized, spox says. He missed Monday vote

EDIT: I'm sure Thad appreciates that his urological issue will now be all over the news.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 AM on September 27 [23 favorites]


I honestly wonder what Pence means when he says he can see the results of Canadian health care? A healthier populace? Fewer bankruptcies caused by medical bills? Yeah, it's a real hellscape up here, all right.

No fair asking the GOP to be coherent in their fearmongering. Everyone knows that if you refer to "NHS-style healthcare" or "Canadian style socialized medicine", your audience is supposed to wail in terror at the mere idea even though they don't have any clue what that actually means.

Non-capitalist healthcare is socialist healthcare, and socialism is de facto terrifying and awful. Duh!
posted by tocts at 5:26 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


ahhhh THANK YOU
posted by lalex at 5:28 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Does "McCain's out" imply that Trump thinks he's going to retire or die imminently? Which, even if true, is not something you say out loud while tallying hypothetical votes, you fuck.
posted by lydhre at 5:28 AM on September 27 [13 favorites]


In addition to supporting transgender troops in the military in his hearing yesterday, Joint Chiefs Chairman Dunford also contradicted Trump on the Iran deal. From Foreign Policy:
The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on Tuesday joined other members of President Donald Trump’s cabinet in confirming that Iran is complying with the 2015 nuclear deal that has put a temporary halt to its nuclear weapons program.

“The briefings I have received indicate that Iran is adhering to its JCPOA obligations,” Gen. Joseph Dunford wrote in answers to questions in advance of his hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee, using an acronym for the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action.

And Dunford warned that U.S. action to pull out of the deal would have unfortunate ripple effects. He said that if the U.S. were to withdrawal without first finding Iran in material breach of the deal, allies would likely question other American treaty obligations. And North Korea, for its part, would have little incentive to enter into talks over its own nuclear program if Washington were to tear up an agreement that, by all accounts, Iran is adhering to.

“It makes sense to me that our holding up agreements that we have signed, unless there’s a material breach, would have an impact on others’ willingness to sign agreements,” Dunford said.
posted by chris24 at 5:33 AM on September 27 [28 favorites]


Does "McCain's out" imply that Trump thinks he's going to retire or die imminently?

I read it as he's a definite NO.
posted by chris24 at 5:34 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Does "McCain's out" imply that Trump thinks he's going to retire or die imminently?

I read it as more "We can't count on McCain to vote yes with us"
posted by Twain Device at 5:38 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Through careful operant conditioning involving the use of reward pellets, GOP voters can merely be read a passage from Anne of Green Gables and they will begin to scream about waiting times and socialism.
posted by supercrayon at 5:38 AM on September 27 [36 favorites]


Does "McCain's out" imply that Trump thinks he's going to retire or die imminently?

I read it as he's a definite NO.


I mean, how stupid is that we're even playing at textual analysis of Trump's tweets, really, but McCain did not strike me as the firmest NO of the lot. His objections were mostly procedural and, if Trump is talking about passing something AFTER reconciliation, I have no idea why he thinks McCain can't be compromised with.
posted by lydhre at 5:40 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


if Trump is talking about passing something AFTER reconciliation, I have no idea why he thinks McCain can't be compromised with.

Sure, they could get a bill after reconcilation. Only here's the catch: they'd have to (*gasp*) work with Democrats to put forward a bi-partisan bill that actually helps fix problems with the world.

But then, here's the catch. Such a fancy-pants bill would struggle in the House, where the maniac-right is the tail that wags the grandma-starving, p90x'ing Objectivist puppy, Paul Ryan.

Until the GOP solves it's two problems: (1) it's utter refusal to make compromises with the Democrats that might possibly lead to policies that improve the lives of non-rich people, and (2) the power the maniac-right has in the house over the Speakership, nothing will ever get done outside of reconciliation.
posted by dis_integration at 5:45 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


I honestly wonder what Pence means when he says he can see the results of Canadian health care?

Maybe he was at Sarah Palin's house?
posted by Room 641-A at 5:49 AM on September 27 [47 favorites]


It's possible that Trump's North Korea & Iran (&c.) baiting may be part of this idea he had back when he (clearly stated he) wasn't running for president in 1988.

In particular that '87 full page ad he took out in the NYT, WaPo, and BoGl to advocate (quite literally) using the U.S. military to run a protection racket on its allies.
posted by Buntix at 5:49 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


Well, that's a given that it's going to be an utter shitshow and nothing will get done, but he's pretending that he will have 50 votes eventually (but specifically not McCain's) and the only impediment is cloture.

This could all be moot because Trump usually just throws words up on twitter and then insists they actually mean something, but I still try to read the tea leaves of his derangement, I guess.
posted by lydhre at 5:56 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


Paul Horner, writer of fake news about 2016 election, found dead (CBS)
FTA:Casey said the Maricopa County medical examiner performed an autopsy which showed there were no signs of foul play. He said Horner had a history of prescription drug abuse and that "evidence at the scene suggested this could be an accidental overdose."
So it appears that he was found dead because he died, which they already knew, and not because of any of the sinister reasons implied by the headline.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:12 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


GOP voters can merely be read a passage from Anne of Green Gables and they will begin to scream about waiting times and socialism.

And puffy sleeves and Gilbert Blythe.
posted by drezdn at 6:15 AM on September 27 [5 favorites]


TENNESSEE UPDATE: Peyton Manning might run for the Senate. Hey, we could do a lot worse. And we know he'll be better than Heath Shuler.

OMAHA!!
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:15 AM on September 27 [4 favorites]


Peyton is pretty conservative and way too close to that Papa John fool.
posted by bootlegpop at 6:18 AM on September 27 [13 favorites]


Peyton is pretty conservative

Making him a horrible fit in today's Republican party. Har har
posted by Rykey at 6:22 AM on September 27


Peyton is pretty conservative and way too close to that Papa John fool.


yep. Also, Peyton Manning is scum.

#TimMcGraw2018?
posted by lalex at 6:25 AM on September 27 [16 favorites]


Peyton is pretty conservative and way too close to that Papa John fool.

Peyton Manning sexually assaulted a trainer in college and has taken action to ruin her life on multiple occasions ever since.
posted by Etrigan at 6:26 AM on September 27 [59 favorites]


P. Manning's history of sexual assault and victim silencing are also problematic. And god help us if every washed up celeb decides politics is going to be their second act.
posted by Existential Dread at 6:26 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


so sick of celebrity politicians (of both parties) i could take two shits and die
posted by entropicamericana at 6:27 AM on September 27 [11 favorites]


Why two?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:30 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


plenty of roughage bruh
posted by entropicamericana at 6:35 AM on September 27 [13 favorites]




The generous reading of "McCain's out" is, for me, "We can't count on McCain to be down with the parliamentary fuckery we have in mind." I mean, I guess that's better than "he ded, write him off."
posted by salix at 6:38 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


#Kaepernick2020!
posted by allthinky at 6:43 AM on September 27 [5 favorites]


@realdonaldtrump: "Facebook was always anti-Trump.The Networks were always anti-Trump hence,Fake News, @nytimes(apologized) & @WaPo were anti-Trump. Collusion?"

???

(@Jim Acosta is reporting that Trump is "embarassed and pissed" about last night, so maybe this is what we'll get today.)
posted by lalex at 6:44 AM on September 27 [24 favorites]


“We’re getting great reviews,” said the President of relief efforts.

You don't speak Spanish, do you.
posted by corb at 6:45 AM on September 27 [62 favorites]


(@Jim Acosta is reporting that Trump is "embarassed and pissed" about last night, so maybe this is what we'll get today.)

As a former Alabama resident, I can confirm that this is the Roy Moore Experience.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 6:50 AM on September 27 [21 favorites]


Thad [Cochran's] urological issue will now be all over the news.

Like pee on tape.

Also a great damn band name.
posted by spitbull at 6:50 AM on September 27


>“We’re getting great reviews,” said the President of relief efforts.

You don't speak Spanish, do you.


I'm still not entirely convinced he's fluent in English.
posted by cjelli at 6:51 AM on September 27 [21 favorites]


so sick of celebrity politicians (of both parties) i could take two shits and die
posted by entropicamericana at 9:27 PM on September 27 [1 favorite +] [!]
Not aimed at you... If you had my condition, two shits would be a light day. I'd wish my daily struggle on all of them. Biologics, opioids, steroids, DMARDS, ancillary meds to handle side effects and maintain other normal stuff. Just handling an hour's errands takes me out. In the USA, I'd be a waste and an afterthought. Fuck them.
posted by michswiss at 6:52 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]


@realdonaldtrump: "Facebook was always anti-Trump.The Networks were always anti-Trump hence,Fake News, @nytimes(apologized) & @WaPo were anti-Trump. Collusion?"

@realdonaldtrump: ...But the people were Pro-Trump! Virtually no President has accomplished what we have accomplished in the first 9 months-and economy roaring

---

Someone's feeling like a loser this morning.
posted by chris24 at 6:53 AM on September 27 [27 favorites]


@realdonaldtrump: ..But the people were Pro-Trump!

Narrator: They weren't.
posted by cjelli at 6:55 AM on September 27 [50 favorites]


From way up thread:
The former official added the IRS is very restricted in what information it can share under Title 26 US Code and would normally need a specific grand jury subpoena in order to share tax returns with another agency.

That's kind of a broad citation... Anyone know what the specific statutes are?


26 USC Sec. 6103(i)
posted by melissasaurus at 6:58 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


@realdonaldtrump: Virtually no President has accomplished what we have accomplished in the first 9 months

Narrator: Literally every other president but Harrison had.
posted by chris24 at 6:58 AM on September 27 [42 favorites]


In case it hasn't come through, I'm angry about a lot right now. This thread is a part of it. The attack taking place in Australia around the so-called survey for marriage equality has also surfaced another wellspring of remembered fear growing up in rural Texas in the '60's and '70's knowing I was transgender. Now living with a chronic illness. The pain with all of this is intense.
posted by michswiss at 7:02 AM on September 27 [14 favorites]


In particular that '87 full page ad he took out in the NYT, WaPo, and BoGl to advocate (quite literally) using the U.S. military to run a protection racket on its allies.
TIL BoGl = Boston Globe.
posted by kgander at 7:05 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]


If you had my condition, two shits would be a light day. I'd wish my daily struggle on all of them. Biologics, opioids, steroids, DMARDS, ancillary meds to handle side effects and maintain other normal stuff. Just handling an hour's errands takes me out.

Reminds me of one of Emma Frost's best psychic whammies.
posted by delfin at 7:07 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Melania Trump sent a bunch of Dr. Seuss books to various school libraries across the country. Librarian Liz Phipps Soeiro of Cambridge, MA, is not a gracious recipient.

Also, take a look at that list of titles. With the exceptions of The Cat in the Hat; One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish; Green Eggs and Ham; and Oh, the Places You’ll Go!, this is not a collection of Seuss's best or most famous works. I guess the Trump administration didn't think The Lorax, The Sneetches or The Butter Battle Book would be on message.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:10 AM on September 27 [28 favorites]


The House Oversight Committee is requesting information on the use of private aircraft by White House Officials, in a surprisingly bipartisan fashion; the deadline to watch there is October 10th.

Another sort-of-deadline to watch: it's been forty-eight days since President Trump said he would declare the opioid epidemic a national emergency. He has yet to actually do so.
posted by cjelli at 7:11 AM on September 27 [14 favorites]


So in my email I hear the 20 week abortion ban attempt is back on. The fights are never over.
posted by agregoli at 7:14 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]


Here's the latest GOP "tax plan" (spoiler alert: it's not a real plan).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:25 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


I called Rob Portman's office this morning to ask, in light of the fact that his brand of Republicanism is unraveling at the national level, whether he thought it might be a good idea to begin crafting legislation with Democrats to limit the ability of radical, deconstructionist Senators to mangle the processes of government — processes which, in the past, have been preserved by "gentlemen's agreements" that are clearly inadequate now.

I'm not especially hopeful that this will occur — and certainly not through Portman's initiative & leadership — but I really don't know how we will avoid a national calamity orders of magnitude worse than we are already experiencing if it doesn't. So that is what I am going to be advocating for.

I also want to say that, while I have been heartened by the solidarity on the part of the Democratic Caucus that we've seen on key issues so far during this illegitimate presidency, I feel like they need to achieve a next-order-of-magnitude amplification of alarm & outrage about Trumpism in the form of perverse judicial nominees, racist megaphoning, general disdain for law & overt corruption, and and and.

It's like, all through Obama's presidency, he consistently stated & restated the need for individuals to become more involved in politics, but he never really conveyed what I thought would be the appropriate degree of urgency about it. And now, even though we are hearing more urgency now, I still feel like it's languishing at what would have been last year's recommended level.
posted by perspicio at 7:35 AM on September 27 [10 favorites]


From the tax "framework":
To simplify the tax rules, the additional standard deduction and personal exemptions for the taxpayer and spouse are consolidated into this larger standard deduction. This change is fundamental to a simpler, fairer system.
Straight up lies on page 4. They double the standard deduction and take away one (or two) personal exemptions. So basically it's an additional $3,200 deduction for married joint filers.
posted by zrail at 7:36 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]


I honestly wonder what Pence means when he says he can see the results of Canadian health care? A healthier populace? Fewer bankruptcies caused by medical bills? Yeah, it's a real hellscape up here, all right.

I live in Trump country. People here have been conditioned for decades to think that Canada is some third-world hellhole where people literally die in the streets from lack of healthcare, and that they spend nearly their entire paychecks in taxes to fund it. I'm not exaggerating.

Peyton is pretty conservative and way too close to that Papa John fool.

Peyton is a trumpnik who, as pointed out, is a sexually assaulting scumbag and, by the way, tried to get one of his black teammates to take the fall for his sexual assault. There is very little difference between him and Trump except that Manning can paper over his sociopathy with goofy affability, which makes him far more dangerous.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:36 AM on September 27 [40 favorites]


Things I learned today: Medicaid Expansion is on the ballot (!!) here in Maine this November. I'm amused to note that apparently the big argument against, as put forth by Lepage, was that the ACA would be repealed before the ballot measure came to vote.

If this passes, it will be a huge slap in LePage's face. The legislature has passed Medicaid expansion five times, only to be blocked by Lepage each time.

I'm generally pretty informed about all things related to Maine and ballot measures, and had known about the petition drive but had not realized we'd be voting on this this year.

Mainers for Heath Care is the parent organization for this, if anyone wants to volunteer or throw them a few bucks.
posted by anastasiav at 7:38 AM on September 27 [31 favorites]


More from the tax "framework":

On page 5 they go on to talk about how they repeal the personal deductions for dependents and expand the child tax credit, without any numbers of course. Anyone with kids above the phase out and/or anyone with non-child dependents loses on this deal.
posted by zrail at 7:40 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Ashley Feinberg, Wired: Jared Kushner Voted as a Woman, According to his Registration

It's all a bit much.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:41 AM on September 27 [33 favorites]


Faint of Butt, that link is 404ing for me, though I can see it linked on the home page. Has it been taken down?
posted by paduasoy at 7:48 AM on September 27


Jared Kushner—senior advisor and son-in-law to the President, savior of the Middle East, and possible person of interest in a federal investigation—


THAT is how you do descriptors.
posted by Twain Device at 7:49 AM on September 27 [37 favorites]


paduasoy, it took a few tries to get the link to load for me. I couldn't help but notice that Melania's ultra-severe signature is very, very similar to Trumo's.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:51 AM on September 27 [5 favorites]


Rep. Thomas Massie, R-KY: "I thought they were voting for libertarian Republicans," Massie said of the Republican voters who had delivered the Tea Party victories. "But after some soul-searching, I realized when they voted for Rand and Ron [Paul] and me in these primaries, they weren't voting for libertarian ideas. They were voting for the craziest son of a bitch in the race.

The man was this close to self-awareness.
posted by Gelatin at 7:54 AM on September 27 [27 favorites]


Faint of Butt, that link is 404ing for me, though I can see it linked on the home page. Has it been taken down?

I was about to agree with you, but inspired by Room 641-A's comment I reloaded a few more times, and it came up. It's probably just getting slammed.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:57 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]




Here's the latest GOP "tax plan" (spoiler alert: it's not a real plan).

He creates a special 25% tax rate for pass-through business entities -- sole proprietorships, partnerships and S-corps. One guess who has his businesses set up as a bizarre arrangement of over 500 sole proprietorships, partnerships and S-corps.

Trump would have his millions of dollars of personal income taxed at the same rate as someone making $75,000.

You would see millions of people restructuring their employment as pass-through entities to avoid income tax.
posted by JackFlash at 8:00 AM on September 27 [53 favorites]


Nothing mentioned about preserving the state & local income tax deduction, which means they plan to get rid of it. Which means states and municipalities that tax their residents to provide adequate services (i.e. "blue states") will be at the receiving end of pain.
posted by xigxag at 8:08 AM on September 27 [11 favorites]


I forgot to include @HarrySteinDC on my list, who put out some quick calculations showing how low-income seniors will see a tax increase under this plan [link is to twitter thread w/ screencaps of calcs]:
-For single taxpayers aged 65+ and blind: The "zero tax bracket" goes UP AND their tax rate goes up from 10% to 12%. [...] And it translates to a $310 tax increase if this taxpayer makes $20,000.
-For a single taxpayer age 65+ (not blind) making $20,000, the Big Six plan raises their taxes by $155.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:12 AM on September 27 [18 favorites]


Which, even if true, is not something you say out loud while tallying hypothetical votes, you fuck.

Pretty sure that Trump's brain includes no "that's something you can't say out loud" function whatsoever, just pure unadulterated Monster from the Id.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:19 AM on September 27 [4 favorites]


And they call the special 25% tax rate "Tax Rate Structure for Small Businesses".

But guess what, Donald Trump falls into this special tax rate. The Koch brothers fall into this tax rate. Many multi-million dollar companies fall into this category.

Stop calling it a rate for small businesses.
posted by JackFlash at 8:20 AM on September 27 [45 favorites]


He's like the Jaws shark, only less cuddly.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:20 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


-For single taxpayers aged 65+ and blind: The "zero tax bracket" goes UP AND their tax rate goes up from 10% to 12%. [...] And it translates to a $310 tax increase if this taxpayer makes $20,000.
-For a single taxpayer age 65+ (not blind) making $20,000, the Big Six plan raises their taxes by $155.


I do believe that aliens exist. They just watch us quietly and can't believe that we as a species could exist for so long and be so deliberately cruel. They must be far kinder and patient than us because I would have long written off the whole human race and nuked us from orbit.
posted by Talez at 8:21 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


You're not wrong but I would like to point out that, while many of us picture small, local businesses owned by one or two people, the definition of a "small business" is any business with less than $20 million per year in revenue.

Some pretty large business are still considered a "small business".
posted by VTX at 8:23 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


This Vox piece predicts the ways in which the GOP will try to hide the ball on their tax "plan":
Perhaps the only way the Trump administration could meet its promises, Burman reasons, is by redefining them: If by “equally progressive” the administration and congressional GOP mean that each income group will see an equivalent percentage decrease in their tax burden, perhaps that could work. But because the federal tax code is already progressive, an equivalent decline in tax burden would amount to a much larger cut — both in dollars and as a share of actual income — for the rich than the middle-class. And it is unlikely the public will believe that the resulting legislation is fair.

A similar trick would be to measure progressivity by the share of taxes paid by each group — so if, say, the richest 1 percent currently pays 25.4 percent of federal taxes and the poorest 20 percent pays 0.8 percent of them, the new plan will commit to keeping those shares the same. “That is a horrendous way to measure progressivity when tax levels are changing,” William Gale, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution specializing on tax policy, says.

“Suppose in system 1, poor guy pays $1, rich guy pays $1 million,” Gale explains. “Then they reform the tax system so that poor guy pays zero and rich guy pays $1. Is this a progressive change? Obviously not by common sense standards — the rich guy got a $999,999 tax cut, which is (let’s assume) a bigger share of his income than the $1 tax cut the poor guy got. But if you look at share of taxes paid, the share paid by the rich guy went up — to 100%.”

The White House declined to specify what exact measure of progressivity they’re using. But from what we know about this bill, and its massive cuts to progressive taxes like the corporate tax, AMT, and estate tax without corresponding increases in the wealthy’s taxes, it’s hard to imagine its gains won’t be concentrated at the top, giving a bigger break to top earners than the middle class.
Expect a lot of gimmicks like these today -- they've had this propaganda ready for decades.
posted by tonycpsu at 8:24 AM on September 27 [26 favorites]


And it is unlikely the public will believe that the resulting legislation is fair.

Have they met Republican America?

Republican America will not only believe that it's fair but that the legislation will not go far enough to punish the poor.
posted by Talez at 8:26 AM on September 27 [8 favorites]


A separate rate for passthroughs is just unworkable. If it were attempted, they would need soooooo many antiavoidance provisions, that there is no way it would be "more simple" or "reduce the number of pages in the tax code" or whatever fresh bullshit they're claiming today. And the IRS doesn't have sufficient funding for compliance and enforcement of current tax laws, and I see no proposals to increase IRS funding to deal with a new framework and transitional years. Partnership audits are already the worst thing ever and extremely complex. Like, I'm really struggling to understand how they plan to turn that idea into an actual bill (not to mention Byrd rule issues).
posted by melissasaurus at 8:27 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


I do believe that aliens exist. They just watch us quietly and can't believe that we as a species could exist for so long and be so deliberately cruel. They must be far kinder and patient than us because I would have long written off the whole human race and nuked us from orbit.

I think Earth has been quarantined
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:28 AM on September 27 [19 favorites]


For single taxpayers aged 65+ and blind: The "zero tax bracket" goes UP AND their tax rate goes up from 10% to 12%.

Yeah, that new 12% tax rate instead of 10% is just bad marketing. Why did they do that? It would be much more obscure to jigger the standard exemption and the income bracket threshold to get the same revenue, but now they have to explain why they are raising taxes on low income people to 12%.
posted by JackFlash at 8:28 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


> I live in Trump country. People here have been conditioned for decades to think that Canada is some third-world hellhole where people literally die in the streets from lack of healthcare, and that they spend nearly their entire paychecks in taxes to fund it.

If you take out the words "in taxes" that's kind of what I've been conditioned to believe Trump country is like.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:29 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


but now they have to explain why they are raising taxes on low income people to 12%.

"The lower 20% of taxpayers only contribute 0.8% of the taxes. Everyone has to pull their weight."

Done. Red America will Kreygasm over it.
posted by Talez at 8:32 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


I think Earth has been quarantined

I think they're just waiting for us to Great Filter ourselves so that they can strip the copper wiring from our abandoned houses and collect our irradiated bones for crafting projects.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:33 AM on September 27 [32 favorites]


I honestly wonder what Pence means when he says he can see the results of Canadian health care? A healthier populace? Fewer bankruptcies caused by medical bills? Yeah, it's a real hellscape up here, all right.

The undead beyond the wall.
posted by srboisvert at 8:44 AM on September 27


Here are some tax twitter folks to follow:

For anyone wondering how you can keep all these sources straight, I recommend Tweetdeck, an interface that Twitter provides that can categorize people into individual feeds which are all consolidated about a topic. I have one for Republicans, one for Journalists, one for Healthcare, now one for Tax c/o melissasaurus.

It does wonders for being able to filter out information from knowledgeable people quickly.
posted by Talez at 8:45 AM on September 27 [11 favorites]


Having my bones used for crafts seems like a best case scenario.
posted by medusa at 8:45 AM on September 27 [26 favorites]


A separate rate for passthroughs is just unworkable. If it were attempted, they would need soooooo many antiavoidance provisions, that there is no way it would be "more simple" or "reduce the number of pages in the tax code" or whatever fresh bullshit they're claiming today.

That illustrates a general concept. Every time you introduce a new special tax rate or deduction, you introduce gaming, tax avoidance, and a more complicated tax return.

The reason our returns are complicated is not because taxes are complicated, per se. It's the thousands of pages of various ways to reduce or avoid paying taxes. All of those additional Schedules, A and D, for example are to reduce taxes.

If you really want to simplify taxes, tax all income the same -- wages, dividends, capital gains. Eliminate all itemized deductions. Boom. You're done. A postcard for your taxes.
posted by JackFlash at 8:50 AM on September 27 [8 favorites]


The aliens know that if they just wait a few decades, the Algae Hiveminds and Cockroach Commonwealth leaders will be much easier to negotiate with than temperamental monkeys.
posted by delfin at 8:51 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]




@Matt Mackowiak (GOP dude): ".@RepThomasMassie with a keen insight"


I have a lot of MIT friends in common with Massie. And a lot of us would like to *ahem* have a word with him. Might be a good time now.
posted by ocschwar at 8:57 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


the definition of a "small business" is any business with less than $20 million per year in revenue.

That is a definition created by the Small Business Administration which is basically a slush fund controlled by lobbyists that funnels money primarily into the very largest of the "small business" companies and into the pockets of millionaires.

There's no reason the general public needs to adhere to the SBA definitions. And the Trump plan is a flat lie anyway. The Trump and Koch companies are not small businesses even by the SBA definitions and they are included in their "Tax Rate for Small Businesses".
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


Just to make you feel better and much, much worse: Barack Obama Cried After Dropping Malia Off at Harvard.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:11 AM on September 27 [53 favorites]




In case anyone could use a moment of levity:

I had to throw away the pictures of my 10 month old daughter in the voting booth "Voting for her first Madam President", but I'm a patient man and willing to play the long game. She's now nearly 2, and very good at animal noises. And I've been diligently teaching her that turtles say "Let's repeal Obamacare". So when she's identifying animals and doing their sounds, on turtle she does this cute 2 year old unintelligible babble because those words are too big for her still, but she's obviously learning it as if I'm giving her good information like "cow says 'mooo'".

I don't know if I'm terrified or ecstatic that some day in the not distant future she is going to point a turtle and say "let's repeal obamacare" in front of my Trump supporting in-laws. I think my wife will forgive me.
posted by jermsplan at 9:21 AM on September 27 [102 favorites]


Jared Kushner Voted as a Woman, According to his Registration

Has anyone actually seen Jared and Ivanka together in the same place?
posted by Behemoth at 9:24 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]


[just dipping a toe into twitter thankstotrump, and whoa thanks: tweetdeck!]
posted by notyou at 9:26 AM on September 27


Voting for folks like Roy Moore is effectively like voting Sinn Fein for Parliament. You can't reasonably expect them to accomplish anything, you're using your vote as a protest. Roy Moore is an uncompromising zealot that makes his party less likely to pass anything of consequence (because it'll be insufficiently pure to him). Just like Rand Paul did with Obamacare repeal. As a Republican zealot, actually passing anything will more likely hurt your reelection chances because the base has been trained to expect unicorns.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:27 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


Nice try with your conspiracies Behemoth, but when things get really tough in the Oval, you can always see both of them hand in hand among the many charming shops Aspen.
posted by cmfletcher at 9:28 AM on September 27 [4 favorites]


In a way, we actually have three parties now, Democrat, Republican, and GoFuckYourself. The third of these just opposes everything and has no positive governing philosophy. McConnell has the misfortune of a governing coalition of 2 and 3, and a President from 3.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:32 AM on September 27 [55 favorites]


Being an elected official from 3 is a great gig in an uncompetitive district, btw, because you can't be outflanked in the primary, you never have to deliver on your promises, and you can always blame someone else for your "defeats." Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Freedom Caucus, etc. as craven self-interested scum get this intuitively.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:36 AM on September 27 [13 favorites]


Trump's gotta be loving the current CNN headline: "Trump infuriated after backing Alabama loser"
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 9:41 AM on September 27 [19 favorites]


Here are some tax twitter folks to follow:

For anyone wondering how you can keep all these sources straight, I recommend Tweetdeck, an interface that Twitter provides that can categorize people into individual feeds which are all consolidated about a topic. I have one for Republicans, one for Journalists, one for Healthcare, now one for Tax c/o melissasaurus.


You don't need additional anything to do lists. Maybe plain twitter doesn't make it easy to view the lists as a timeline, but when you look at a profile on the web page there's a 3-dot item next to "follow." You can add someone to a list there, existing or new. From the home page when you're logged in, lists are under your icon. Open it up and there's your list of lists. Click one and there's all the tweets and retweets from people on that list, presented timeline-like.

Make the lists public and you can just share them here rather than a list of accounts to follow. The only downside to that approach is you're at the mercy of the list owner and they can add or delete folks and there's nothing you can do about it.

Personally I'm a Tweetbot user and you can create as many columns with it as you want too. I like it because it ignores twitter's efforts to make a non-chronological view. Perhaps they have not polluted Tweetdeck with that yet but I prefer to keep as far from their software as possible.
posted by phearlez at 9:47 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


Democrat, Republican, and GoFuckYourself.

If that's the case, the Republicans are less of a party and more the equivalent of a fearful whale louse clinging to a racist humpback.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:50 AM on September 27 [8 favorites]


In case anyone could use a moment of levity:

Steven Segal looks like a bad guy from a Steven Segal movie.

"Hi, I'm Steven Segal. You may know me from movies and TV. And when I'm not giving hand-jobs to Vladimir Putin I like to dress in Sebastian Gorka drag and listen to Rammstein unironically."
posted by octobersurprise at 9:50 AM on September 27 [23 favorites]


I liked the tweet from someone that was something like (sorry can't find it again) "Segal can't decide if he's angrier at democrats or the wizard who cursed him to slowly turn into an owl."
posted by phearlez at 9:53 AM on September 27 [13 favorites]


Democrat, Republican, and GoFuckYourself.

I'm going with Shitlord. Dem, Reps and Shitlords. Their animal can be a hairy ass.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:54 AM on September 27


the wizard who cursed him to slowly turn into an owl.

Must be the same wizard who turned that naughty little boy into Jeff Sessions.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:59 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


And who turned that turtle into the Senate Majority Leader.
posted by nickmark at 10:04 AM on September 27 [5 favorites]


I never understood people's love for Steven Segal movies. Among all the big action stars of the 80s & 90s, he was the worst—primarily because he appeared to have absolutely no sense of humor about himself whatsoever, which is not something one could say of Schwarzenegger or Stallone. The other action star from that time whose work always bored me for similar reasons was Chuck Norris. It's no surprise that he, too, is a bloviating right-wing dick bag.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:06 AM on September 27 [12 favorites]


> Partisan Gerrymandering Heads to Court Test: Can It Go Too Far?

Sam Wang & Brian Remlinger, The American Prospect: Slaying the Partisan Gerrymander
posted by tonycpsu at 10:07 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


MSNBC just showed Trump saying "moments ago" that "We have the votes on health care" but that "we have someone in the hospital right now" and can't get it done before the end of September so "we'll do it in January or February."
posted by XMLicious at 10:08 AM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Trump Jr reactivated his secret service coverage after a few days, according to reddit, so Russian oligarch Oleg Daripaska could secretly enter the country. I'm not seeing on the Hill article where the oligarch thing was mentioned. r/resist link
posted by yoga at 10:10 AM on September 27 [7 favorites]


@M_SullivanTax
Reality is the Big six have produced a Small results. It’s a Cheez Doodle reform: lots of puff and color but mostly air. It’s a nowhere plan


It's a real nowhere plan
Coming from an orange man
Giving all the tax credits to rich buddies.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:10 AM on September 27 [25 favorites]


Trump also said, "there's very little benefit for people of wealth" in tax reform. (I think he was talking about tax reform? He went back to talking about health care after that.)
posted by XMLicious at 10:10 AM on September 27


he's fucking delusional
posted by lalex at 10:11 AM on September 27 [5 favorites]


so Russian oligarch Oleg Daripaska could secretly enter the country.

soooo this person on Twitter seems to be into posting up alleged flight paths of Russian planes? I have no idea if any of this is real.
posted by lalex at 10:19 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


VIRGINIA HOUSE ELECTIONS - HD 96-100

intro
1-5
6-10
11-15
16-20
21-25
26-30
31-35
36-40
41-45
46-50
51-55
56-60
61-65
66-70
71-75
76-80
81-85
86-90
91-95

===

96th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Brenda Pogge (incumbent)
D cand: Kelly De Lucia

Williamsburg suburbs, 79.2% white. Incumbent first elected in 2007. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 53-42.

===

97th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Chris Peace (incumbent)
D cand: Cori Johnson

Richmond suburbs, 85.1% white. Incumbent first elected in 2006 special. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 67-28.

===

98th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Keith Hodges (incumbent)
D cand: Sheila Crowley

Richmond exurbs, 79.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 63-33.

===

99th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Margaret Ransone (incumbent)
D cand: Francis Edwards

Semi-rural district on the Cheasapeake, 70.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2011. No D candidate in 2013 or 2015. Trump won district 57-39.

===

100th District
Currently GOP seat
R cand: Robert Bloxom (incumbent)
D cand: Willie Randall

Rural Eastern Shore, 62.7% white. Incumbent first elected in 2014 special. No R candidate in 2013, R won 2014 special 60-40, R won 58-42 in 2015. Clinton won district 49-47. Flippable Potential district. This is a rematch of the 2014 special and 2015 elections.

===

Next time: Conclusions!
posted by Chrysostom at 10:20 AM on September 27 [31 favorites]


so Russian oligarch Oleg Daripaska could secretly enter the country.

that Reddit link says Jr. deactivated it at the same time Daripaska secretly* entered the country, not as a condition of him entering the country secretly* and then reactivated it when he left. That sounds like Jr. wanted to meet with Daripaska privately.

*even assuming this is true.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:21 AM on September 27 [4 favorites]


In...just about every photo I've seen, Mitch McConnell looks like a perverted little boy spying through the keyhole on his parents having sex.
posted by duffell at 10:24 AM on September 27 [10 favorites]


So upon further reading in r/resist about Trump Jr deactivating/reactivating SS, it seems Jr held a secret fundraiser on the 18th at a Trump owned golf course that day. Forbes link. They are so gross.
posted by yoga at 10:26 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


To be fair he isn't lying about his success. No other president has brought such chaos to an entire country and most of the planet in such a short period of time! No president in my lifetime has made me afraid that nuclear bombing might happen because he got insulted on twitter! No other president has made me feel that they think it would be great to grab my pussy! So he isn't really lying.

And yeah, I hear from Americans every day that Canadian healthcare = dying in the streets. Yeah, I'm a victim to the wait lists right now (took a few months to get an ultrasound, will take a couple of month to have surgery) but it isn't life threatening and I would rather they take those who are going to die without it first. For some of them, the idea that I can't just phone a surgeon and have to go through a GP for all referrals seems to be something horrific. I'd rather wait to have surgery for absolutely free (including meds afterwards because I'm low income) than have the choice to pay for it myself. Like, I always refer to Askme questions like "I've injured a vital limb, can I just wait and see if it goes away..it's kind of green and smelly" as the difference between USA and here. Here we can just go get a doctor to help instead of doing some weird prepper home surgery. I can't imagine how I would fair in the USA: queer, trans, chronic pain, mentally ill, too disabled to work, too messed up by trauma to have a work history.

But god forbid anyone have to wait to get a non-needed surgery that they don't have to pay for! That's pure evil.
posted by kanata at 10:26 AM on September 27 [44 favorites]


> It's a real nowhere plan
Coming from an orange man
Giving all the tax credits to rich buddies.


Should five per cent appear too yuge
Be thankful I'm a wealthy stooge
Cos I'm the tax cut man, yeah I'm the tax cut man

For the moneyed few, the rich elite
I'll cut the taxes on Wall Street
If the middle class is sucking on your teat
I'll tax them all to help your balance sheet
posted by tonycpsu at 10:28 AM on September 27 [4 favorites]


In...just about every photo I've seen, Mitch McConnell looks like a perverted little boy spying through the keyhole on his parents having sex.

That's actually his origin story.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:28 AM on September 27 [13 favorites]


it seems Jr held a secret fundraiser on the 18th at a Trump owned golf course

oh yeah I forgot about that! (altho I think for Eric's charity?) Good catch.
posted by lalex at 10:29 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


ummmmmmm tonycpsu this thread is about LIMERICKS
posted by lalex at 10:29 AM on September 27 [3 favorites]


he's fucking delusional

For real though, all of this just happened:
- Trump on corporate tax rate: "20 is my number, so we're not negotiating that number" (they will be negotiating on that number)
- Trump says he will probably sign executive order next week to allow people to buy healthcare across state lines (it's unclear what exactly he means by this, if indeed he means anything; presumably directing HHS to expedite state innovation waivers or something to do with section 1333 of the ACA?)
- Trump on tax cuts: 'I won't benefit' (he will)

No transcript yet, but a summary:
POTUS also insisted that Republicans "have the votes" on healthcare but could not move ahead now because a senator is in hospital. He predicted a vote will happen in January, February or March. In the meantime, he intends to negotiate with Democrats on a bipartisan bill and issue a "very major" executive order, probably next week, "where people can go out across state lines, do lots of things, and buy their own healthcare".

POTUS also said the NFL is in a "very bad box" and denied he is contradicting the first amendment. He also discussed the Alabama primary and tax reform.
They don't have the votes for healthcare. That's false. There are some senators with health problems, but none currently actually in a hospital. That's also false. 'Probably next week' is his code for 'I guess maybe we'll do this eventually, or not' and is functionally meaningless. It's wildly unclear what the hell he means by 'do lots of things,' but I'm sure he'll claim that whatever he does do fulfills that promise.

And, oh, hey, Puerto Rico?
Trump on why he won’t waive the Jones Act: “A lot of people who are in the shipping industry don’t want” it lifted.
The WSJ:
Lawmakers are calling on the Trump administration to permit foreign-flagged vessels to ship relief supplies from U.S. ports to storm-ravaged Puerto Rico, asking the Department of Homeland Security to waive a law they say will burden the aid effort and increase the cost of critical supplies to islanders.

The 1920 Jones Act, regarded as one of the cornerstones of U.S. maritime policy, requires that goods shipped between U.S. ports be carried by vessels built in the U.S., majority-owned by American firms and crewed by U.S. citizens. The Department of Homeland Security hasn’t waived the act for Puerto Rico, which was devastated by Hurricane Maria last week.
"Trump also said he’s considering lifting it, but shipping industry’s opposition giving him pause because “We have a lot of ships out there.”"

The President is literally prioritizing industry profits over American lives. Delusional? Yes. But that's just the start.
posted by cjelli at 10:31 AM on September 27 [85 favorites]


And then this u/flyboy comment in r/resist adds that the oligarch's plane landed in Morristown NJ the day of the fundraiser, close to the golf course where the fundraiser was:
Deripaska owns several aircraft through holding companies in the British Virgin Islands. He registers them in Isle of Man, so they have M- tail numbers. His aircraft registration numbers are M-ALAY, M-UGIC, and M-UKHA, among others.
Here is the planefinder page for M-UGIC, a Gulfstream V. If you play back and speed up the track on 9/18/17 it will land in Morristown, NJ, which is a 24 minute drive from Trump National Golf Course Bedminster, NJ.
Edit: The aircraft departed on 9/20/17 and flew to Moscow.
posted by yoga at 10:32 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]


ummmmmmm tonycpsu this thread is about LIMERICKS

apparently now it's about Liverpools
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:32 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]


And they call the special 25% tax rate "Tax Rate Structure for Small Businesses".

But guess what, Donald Trump falls into this special tax rate. The Koch brothers fall into this tax rate. Many multi-million dollar companies fall into this category.

Stop calling it a rate for small businesses.


Not only that but we're always near the bottom of OECD rankings for "Tax revenue as % of GDP", with a rate that hovers around a point just below 25%. That's federal plus state plus local/municipal combined, so whoever gets most of the income in the country has to be paying a good deal less than 25% in federal taxes.

I went to look up the IRS statistical report on the top 400 taxpayers which always shows the number of them in the "0% up to 10%" effective tax rate category going up year after year, but noticed that there isn't one for last year and the archived reports end in 2014.

This blog post from last year post-election notes that 2014 was the final year and that they were supposed to switch to reporting on the top ".001 percentile level—which in 2014 represented the top 1,396 returns" but my googles are finding nothing. The blog post links to a paywalled Fortune article "How Much Will Trump Cut Taxes For Top 400? We'll Never Know, As IRS Ends 400 Report".
posted by XMLicious at 10:34 AM on September 27 [8 favorites]


Trump also said, "there's very little benefit for people of wealth" in tax reform.
he's fucking delusional
Well, let's see.. Among the things the rich don't get out of the tax reform proposal (so far -- we're sure to see some amendments as the process moves along..)
  • Not allowed to horsewhip peasants for impudence
  • Still must resort to courts if they want to seize your property
  • Droit du seigneur not yet restored
It appears he's right. There's very little for the rich in the proposed legislation (other than giant piles of money, of course.)
posted by Nerd of the North at 10:57 AM on September 27 [9 favorites]


[Several comments deleted. Sorry, extended Steven Seagal discussion should go somewhere else.]
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:58 AM on September 27 [6 favorites]




I was waiting in line to get my sub for lunch and they had CNN on, interviewing Trump. I hadn't heard him speak in ages, purposefully, and by God he sounds fucking deranged. Just... nonsensical, evil, and stupid. Transcripts do not do this monster justice.
posted by lydhre at 11:02 AM on September 27 [26 favorites]


I have to imagine that "Secret Service, stop following me!" does not mean "DOJ people, stop following him." Secret Service is under Homeland Security. I hope I'm right, anyway. And I hope Don Jr. is as oblivious as he seems to be.
posted by emelenjr at 11:13 AM on September 27 [11 favorites]


Trump says he's working on an executive order to allow people to buy health insurance across state lines, because that's literally the only thing he knows about healthcare. This is something several states already allow, yet no insurance company has actually taken them up on the offer, with good reason, because the hard part of selling insurance in another state is dealing with practicalities like setting up a provider network. Buying a cheap plan from another state is meaningless if the doctors in your network are all halfway across the country. More on the practical problems here from KHN's Julie Rovner.

"Trump also said he’s considering lifting it, but shipping industry’s opposition giving him pause because “We have a lot of ships out there.”"

This may be the worst thing he's ever said, and I don't mean that lightly given what all he's said. Just straight up profits over people's lives, and a yet another example of him saying the thing you're not supposed to say out loud.
posted by zachlipton at 11:16 AM on September 27 [28 favorites]


HuffPo: Senate Judiciary Dems asking questions about Kobach "fraud" commission.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:17 AM on September 27 [15 favorites]


And then this u/flyboy comment in r/resist adds that the oligarch's plane landed in Morristown NJ the day of the fundraiser, close to the golf course where the fundraiser was:

Hmmm.... Perhaps Mueller's team will want to look into limo reservations on that day.
posted by mikelieman at 11:31 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Inspired by someone above, I've begun to answer back at the racists on FB. And it works. Not in the sense that they "convert", but in the sense that they shut up, and hate-speech is again not acceptable. I can see several friends doing the same.
The haters have no arguments, because they are ignorant haters. So when you tell them facts, there is nothing they can do.
posted by mumimor at 11:34 AM on September 27 [30 favorites]


He creates a special 25% tax rate for pass-through business entities -- sole proprietorships, partnerships and S-corps.

I seem to recall Kansas tried this and watched their tax collections drop dramatically as business transformed themselves into one of these entities. Being a shining example of fiscal soundness, it's no wonder the GOP is going national with it.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:35 AM on September 27 [14 favorites]


Secret Service is under Homeland Security.

They used to be under Treasury. Has that changed?
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:40 AM on September 27 [1 favorite]


"Trump also said he’s considering lifting it, but shipping industry’s opposition giving him pause because “We have a lot of ships out there.”"

neoliberalism.txt

We'll allow people to starve in deference to industry profits. How is this any different from feudalism at this point?
posted by Existential Dread at 11:42 AM on September 27 [11 favorites]


>Secret Service is under Homeland Security.

They used to be under Treasury. Has that changed?


It changed in 2003, as part of the broad set of changes that brought the DHS into being.
posted by cjelli at 11:44 AM on September 27 [5 favorites]


I seem to recall Kansas tried this and watched their tax collections drop dramatically as business transformed themselves into one of these entities. Being a shining example of fiscal soundness, it's no wonder the GOP is going national with it.

Yep. It was so bad the Republican legislature overrode the Republican Gov's veto to get rid of it.
Kansas’s economy remains steady but its budget situation has been unsteady for several years. The state is one of four with essentially zero in budget reserves (the others being North Dakota, Oklahoma, and Pennsylvania), with those funds having been drawn down to cover budget gaps since 2013. The state raised sales taxes and cigarette taxes and reduced itemized deductions in 2015. On several occasions the state has swept funds from government accounts and forced loans from the pension fund, the road fund, and local government funds. Revenue dropped sharply after the tax cuts and has remained anemic since; state spending (adjusted for population and inflation) has grown very slowly at about 0.3 percent per year. [link]
posted by melissasaurus at 11:48 AM on September 27 [21 favorites]


John Kelly wanted to slash refugee admissions to 15,000 per year. The 45,000 they settled on is the lowest since 1980. So glad the generals are working hard to counter Trump's worst impulses.

NYT: Trump Plans 45,000 Limit on Refugees Admitted to U.S.
posted by chris24 at 11:54 AM on September 27 [8 favorites]


neoliberalism.txt

We'll allow people to starve in deference to industry profits. How is this any different from feudalism at this point?


The Jones Act is about protectionism for our merchant marine industry, which is kind of the opposite of neoliberalism. (If that word means anything anymore.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 12:00 PM on September 27 [19 favorites]


Expect a lot of gimmicks [in obfuscating the Republican tax cuts for the rich] like these today -- they've had this propaganda ready for decades.

Expect NPR to fall for them completely, as all day they've been going with "Republicans say the tax cuts will jump start the economy and create jobs, while Democrats say they will disproportionately favor the wealthy," which is a failure to report actual objective reality. The notion that any of that is a matter of opinion expired in the Reagan Administration.

Also expect Republicans not to say one word about the deficit, and the media not to notice.
posted by Gelatin at 12:03 PM on September 27 [28 favorites]


Expect NPR to fall for them completely

WHAT IS WITH ALL THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA DRINKING THE KOOL-AID

Sorry, just had to get that out...
posted by Melismata at 12:04 PM on September 27 [6 favorites]


I'm beginning to suspect that "neoliberalism" is as Russian as Jill Stein's campaign.
posted by lydhre at 12:05 PM on September 27 [19 favorites]


Inspired by someone above, I've begun to answer back at the racists on FB. And it works. Not in the sense that they "convert", but in the sense that they shut up, and hate-speech is again not acceptable. I can see several friends doing the same. The haters have no arguments, because they are ignorant haters. So when you tell them facts, there is nothing they can do.

Wow, you have a very different experience with answering back to racists on FB than I do. Are you responding to racist-friends or racist-strangers? I've found that if someone doesn't know you very well, they don't shut up - they just keep going. If you present facts, they ignore them and keep on trucking with their racism.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:06 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Axios: Trump, at war with everyone, mocks McCain, McConnell: "In private, President Trump has taken to physically mocking M&M: Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (slumped shoulders; lethargic body language) and Sen. John McCain (imitating the thumbs-down of his historic health-care vote)."

Disgusting and puerile as this behavior is, at least there are people in the White House (Bannonites?) who are ready to leak reports of it.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:07 PM on September 27 [9 favorites]


Mocking the main person between you and a successful impeachment? Please proceed.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:09 PM on September 27 [54 favorites]


If you present facts, they ignore them and keep on trucking with their racism.

And the typos, don't forget the typos. #NeverForget
posted by RolandOfEld at 12:09 PM on September 27 [4 favorites]


WHAT IS WITH ALL THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA DRINKING THE KOOL-AID

They're physically unable to utter the words, "You're lying." to an interviewee
posted by mikelieman at 12:15 PM on September 27 [14 favorites]


The Jones Act is about protectionism for our merchant marine industry, which is kind of the opposite of neoliberalism. (If that word means anything anymore.)

Narrator: It does not.
posted by Etrigan at 12:15 PM on September 27 [10 favorites]


Rush transcript of this morning's press gaggle with the President (replete with what are either typos or else real gibberish from Trump; it's legitimately hard to tell).
Q Mr. President, on tax reform, does your plan help the wealthy too much? There's criticism that it gives you tax breaks.
THE PRESIDENT: My plan is for the working people, and my plan is for jobs.

Q So you wouldn't benefit under your tax plan?
THE PRESIDENT: No, I don't benefit. I don't benefit.

Q You don't think rich people benefit?
THE PRESIDENT: In fact, very, very strongly, as you see, there's no -- I think there's very little benefit for people of wealth.

Q The estate tax repeal is a benefit to people of wealth.
THE PRESIDENT: The estate taxes is one of things and that's, if you look at, for farmers and people with small businesses.
...
Q One more on tax cuts, sir. Is the 20 percent corporate rate a red line to you? I know you say --
THE PRESIDENT: Very much a red line. In fact, I wanted to start at 15 so that we got 20. It just -- the numbers were -- 15 was so low we didn't take in the revenue. But I wanted 15, so we got 20 -- 20 is my number. So I'm not negotiating that number. I really -- I am not going to negotiate.

That's the number I wanted to get to. I wanted to start at 15 to get there. We really had to start there because of the complexity of the numbers, but 20 is a perfect number.
"Twenty is a perfect number?" "I'm not going to negotiate, but here's my negotiating position?"
Q May I ask you a question about (inaudible) travel ban?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes.

Q First of all, can you explain to us why Sudan was removed? And second of all, how does the travel ban work in North Korea that doesn't allow their people out of the country?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, the people -- yeah, the people allowed -- certain countries -- but we can add countries very easily and we can take countries away.

Q What did Sudan do right?
THE PRESIDENT: And as far as the travel ban is concerned, whatever it is, I want the toughest travel ban you can have.
If you doubted the new travel ban was just a Muslim ban re-invented: I would point you to Trump's complete inability to provide a rationale for why any countries were added or removed, and then I'd point you back to his actually clearly stated plan to ban Muslims.

(Trump's comments about Puerto Rico also come from this gaggle, as do his recent comments about the 'state lines' EO; as already noted, reading a transcript doesn't quite do justice to how meandering and nonsensical Trump's responses are.)
posted by cjelli at 12:20 PM on September 27 [22 favorites]


If "20 is a perfect number," why did he want 15 then? He wanted a less than perfect number but settled for a perfect one?

Gosh, if I didn't know better, I'd think he was making these extremely important numbers up out of thin air or something.
posted by zachlipton at 12:22 PM on September 27 [17 favorites]


Transcripts do not do this monster justice.

I lose my mind the most when I have to listen to him speak. Because you take all of those ignorant, idiotic ramblings, and you layer on a level of smug arrogance and blustering certitude of his innate superiority. He doesn’t get any more infuriating than when he speaks, to me.

Donald Trump perfectly embodies the concept of rich white privilege, more than anyone else I’ve ever witnessed in my life.
posted by Brak at 12:22 PM on September 27 [65 favorites]


I know I've said this before but I really do hate this man.
posted by asteria at 12:23 PM on September 27 [38 favorites]


I think Trump was saying that he wanted to stake out 15% as a negotiating position so that he could fake-compromise on 20% -- "wanted to start at 15 so that we got 20" -- in other words, that he wanted to negotiate in bad faith, but now he doesn't want to negotiate at all, so 20% is his final offer? Despite the fact that it's Congress that needs to actually do this, and it's only up to him to sign it? And despite the fact that he's...telling us this? For some reason? But, honestly: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by cjelli at 12:25 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


WHAT IS WITH ALL THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA DRINKING THE KOOL-AID

This is easily understood as them being unwilling to have their access cut by calling people on blatant lies.
posted by Archelaus at 12:26 PM on September 27 [6 favorites]


Expect NPR to fall for them completely, as all day they've been going with "Republicans say the tax cuts will jump start the economy and create jobs, while Democrats say they will disproportionately favor the wealthy,"

"Mhoq'gagrus the Undying says that, as a 10,000 year old Chained God, he is offering the only truly conservative healthcare plan: forced labor as an supplicant for life, and then perpetual service as an enslaved undead minion.

Democrats disagree, saying, "What's the matter with you people?! Run, run for your lives!" We spoke to Darryl, a local small business owner and a Mhoq'gagrus supporter who we found chained to the wheel of tears in the Temple of Spider Throne. Darryl seemed to be in favor of the Arch-Lich's plan, "It's gotta be better than Obamacare, and Mhoq-gagrus sure does make those snowflake liberals mad!"

We also spoke to a representative of the Maimed One, one of the Lesser Fingers made available for press inquiries, he responded, "я не говорю по-английски."

Who's to say? This is NPR.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:28 PM on September 27 [114 favorites]


BuzzFeed, The Trump Administration Won’t Support State Obamacare Enrollment Events
Regional representatives from the Department of Health and Human Services will not be participating in open enrollment events in the states as they have in years past, according to an administration source and an email sent to health advocates in Mississippi obtained by BuzzFeed News.

The source, who had direct knowledge of the change, told BuzzFeed News that all of the department’s 10 regional directors were told to not to participate in state-based events promoting open enrollment — a significant change from years past.

The move follows a trend by the Trump administration of stepping away from past federal assistance for Obamacare and, particularly, of dialing back resources for the upcoming open enrollment period.
So Price is running around on private jets claiming he has to get out and meet people all across the country, but the actual people on the ground across the country are being ordered to stay in their offices?

Remember the movie The Truman Show where he goes to the travel agent, but they can't let him travel anywhere, so the travel agent's office has posters of plane crashes and terrorists and other stuff to discourage travel? I fear that's where we're headed, the next step will be an HHS ad campaign featuring people who are all "my mother signed up for Obamacare, and now she's dead."
posted by zachlipton at 12:29 PM on September 27 [31 favorites]


The Jones Act is about protectionism for our merchant marine industry, which is kind of the opposite of neoliberalism. (If that word means anything anymore.)

Fair criticism. I was referring more to the idea that public good must defer to private industry profit, even to the suffering of millions of people. Protectionism may not be neoliberal, but I think the idea that one can't endanger the profits of the shipping industry in order to rush aid to a humanitarian disaster is very much in line with neoliberal economic thinking.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:29 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


I will say that even though I can't physically stand the sound of his voice, it is interesting to watch him with the sound off. He is very at ease at a podium, he smiles a lot and clearly knows how to work the crowd. Between that and the chryon at the bottom giving abridged versions of what he's saying, his win with the low-info crowd makes more sense.

Still dedicating Psalm 109 to him though.
posted by asteria at 12:31 PM on September 27 [4 favorites]


Pence: "You know, somewhere in between where I’m sitting in Washington, D.C., and (you) Alaska, is a place called Canada. I probably don’t need to tell the people Alaska about the failings of national socialized health care because it’s right in our neighbour and you see the results every day."
Y'all should be so lucky. A close relative of mine, who hasn't responded well to other drugs, is thriving under a new treatment for Crohn's. The cost of the drug is $3500 per infusion; he's going once every month or so. The only "health insurance" he has is the one that all Canadian citizens do: the one which takes care of health emergencies and provides preventative care for all of us regardless of ability to pay.

My tax rate is comparable to the average American, and at least we get services for the money.
posted by jokeefe at 12:32 PM on September 27 [49 favorites]


Trump just repeated his bullshit about getting rid of the legislative filibuster. Says that if the Democrats had the opportunity they would get rid of it on day 1.

Is he stupid? (don't answer that.) Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress under Obama and didn't get rid of the filibuster.
posted by Justinian at 12:39 PM on September 27 [3 favorites]


Dionne Searcy(NYT): State Department and Pentagon officials all opposed Trump's travel ban on Chad. Stephen Miller said do it anyway
posted by PenDevil at 12:39 PM on September 27 [14 favorites]


Trump just repeated his bullshit about getting rid of the legislative filibuster. Says that if the Democrats had the opportunity they would get rid of it on day 1.

It's just like how Obama took everyone's guns away. No proof required, everyone just knows it's true, cuz liberals.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:43 PM on September 27 [7 favorites]


Trump on why he won’t waive the Jones Act: “A lot of people who are in the shipping industry don’t want” it lifted.

Pure evil doesn't generally come along wearing horns and carrying a pitchfork. But that Trump quote is about as close as it gets.
posted by darkstar at 12:47 PM on September 27 [17 favorites]


Nooow he's going on about repealing the estate tax because it kills family farmers and they have to have fire sales to pay the tax.

Someone show me a couple family farmers whose estates are worth more than 11 million dollars and can't pay the estate tax? The exemption is 5.5 million per individual! If it's so easy to have a farm worth 11million dollars that this is a problem I think I'm in the wrong line of work. Surely even a shitty farmer will have an estate worth a cool couple million.
posted by Justinian at 12:54 PM on September 27 [15 favorites]


I think he just sort of gestured at a map, Chad is pretty big and hanging there right in the middle of Africa like a juicy majority-Muslim peach
posted by theodolite at 12:54 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


PenDevil:
"Dionne Searcy(NYT): State Department and Pentagon officials all opposed Trump's travel ban on Chad. Stephen Miller said do it anyway"
He had been told by his followers that Chad would get all the women. And then they began screeching incoherently.
posted by charred husk at 12:54 PM on September 27 [13 favorites]


Dems calling for Price's firing, Trump thinking about it. [The Hill]
posted by Chrysostom at 1:00 PM on September 27 [14 favorites]




How afraid should I be?

Sounds like a decent bill. It expands in-home & tele-health coverage and streamlines some billing. Doesn't look like it cuts any coverage at all and CBO scored it to reduce spending by over $200 million from 2018 to 2022. I can see why it got bipartisan support, unless there is a poison pill hiding in there somewhere.
posted by papercrane at 1:11 PM on September 27 [12 favorites]


@damianpaletta: Trump threatens Donnelly. Says if he doesn't back tax cuts "We will come here, we will campaign against him like you wouldn't believe."

This is probably not a good threat to make the day after the guy you just campaigned for lost by 10 points.
posted by zachlipton at 1:17 PM on September 27 [60 favorites]


Trump has started his trade war with Canada, putting a 219% tariff on passenger jets from Bombardier at the request of Boeing. This increases the price of 75 jets that Delta Airlines was preparing to buy from Bombardier from $30 million per plane to nearly $80 million per plane, which will obviously kill the deal.

Meanwhile, Justin Trudeau, in retaliation, is going to kill a $5.2 billion deal to buy F-18 fighters from Boeing.

So Boeing kills a $2.25 Bombardier deal and in retaliation loses a $5.2 billion deal.

Trump, art of the deal. So much winning.
It doesn't even seem like a good "win" for Boeing.
posted by anem0ne at 1:21 PM on September 27 [10 favorites]


Also, I'm PRETTY sure there is going to be a Republican candidate running against Donnelly no matter what.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:22 PM on September 27 [3 favorites]


"I probably don’t need to tell the people Alaska about the failings of national socialized health care because it’s right in our neighbour and you see the results every day."

I was writing a comment full of wry indignation and rebuttal to the ongoing claims of Canada's Health system being some kind of demonic hell-beast, and then I thought fuck it.

No, seriously, fuck right off Republicans. Come and talk to us about our health system, the successes, the problems, in good faith - like you do with neighbours - or fuck off and stop mentioning us. We're not a talking point in your shit storm of posturing dunderheads. Come with respect or don't come at all.

In short, get the fuck off our lawn.
posted by nubs at 1:25 PM on September 27 [53 favorites]


It doesn't even seem like a good "win" for Boeing.

Goddamn. Boeing doesn't even compete against the Bombardier planes under question, with no aircraft for sale under 150 seats. This is so incredibly dumb. And they just set the price for the actual competing aircraft from Embraer, so that Embraer just has to price their planes slightly below the Bombardier aircraft + tariff. Not only does this not benefit Boeing in any way, it also fucks over basically any airliner looking to purchase smaller narrow-body aircraft in the US.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:29 PM on September 27 [6 favorites]


Sorry for the language, eh?
posted by nubs at 1:29 PM on September 27 [25 favorites]




Little late on that one, eh?
posted by octobersurprise at 1:32 PM on September 27 [36 favorites]


Democrats should treat this Republican reconciliation tax bill just like the Obamacare repeal bill. Not one single Democratic vote. There is not a single factual economic reason to help Republicans. Make Republicans own their tax cuts for the rich and ballooning deficits.

If you want nice things -- universal child care, universal pre-school, college, better healthcare coverage -- you need more taxes not less.

Unfortunately I think, some Democrats in congress are going to fall for the "tax cuts for jobs" bullshit and give Republicans cover for their tax cuts for the rich.
posted by JackFlash at 1:33 PM on September 27 [25 favorites]


Little late on that one, eh?

Well the majority of voters said that in November 2016 too but they just happened to live in the wrong states.
posted by dhens at 1:34 PM on September 27 [53 favorites]


Those legal bills must be piling up. Newt here: (Emphasiseseses theirs)
Newt Gingrich
4:32 PM (2 minutes ago)
Reply to [redacted@redacted.com]

Friend,

The President is working around-the-clock to enact the agenda YOU voted for.

Now, our critically important end-of-quarter deadline is only 3 days away, and President Trump has asked me to reach out to top supporters like you.

Democrats are against our progress at every turn, and it’s going to take every resource we have to keep fighting for our AMERICA FIRST agenda.

Since we have to report our fundraising publicly, a group of generous donors has agreed to step up and DOUBLE-MATCH ALL DONATIONS THROUGH MIDNIGHT SATURDAY.

CONTRIBUTE $250 = $750

CONTRIBUTE $100 = $300

CONTRIBUTE $75 = $225

CONTRIBUTE $50 = $150

CONTRIBUTE $35 = $105

CONTRIBUTE OTHER AMOUNT

This is our fight, our movement, our agenda.

So let’s get the job done, Friend.

With only 3 days until our end-of-quarter deadline, please contribute $250, $100, $75 $50, $35 or even just $5 today to be DOUBLE-MATCHED and help us meet our goal.

Thank you,

Newt Gingrich Headshot
Newt Gingrich

CONTRIBUTE $100 = $300

Paid for by the Republican National Committee
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.
www.GOP.com
You are receiving this email at [redacted@redacted.com]
Republican National Committee (RNC), 310 1st St SE Washington, DC, 20003-1885, US

We believe this is an important way to reach our grassroots supporters with the most up-to-date information regarding the efforts of the Republican Party and President Trump, and we’re glad you’re on our team. It’s because of grassroots supporters like you that we will Make America Great Again, and we appreciate your support. Thank you for all that you do!

Privacy Policy | Unsubscribe

posted by tilde at 1:39 PM on September 27 [4 favorites]


omg honey we can get DOUBLE-MATCHED! Get out my checkbook!!!
posted by ian1977 at 1:41 PM on September 27 [3 favorites]


Daily Beast, Exclusive: Russians Impersonated Real American Muslims to Stir Chaos on Facebook and Instagram: "Kremlin trolls stole the identity of an authentic U.S. Muslim organization—first to smear John McCain and Hillary Clinton, then to sing her praises."
The Facebook group United Muslims of America was neither united, Muslim, nor American.

Instead, sources familiar with the group tell The Daily Beast, it was an imposter account on the world’s largest social network that’s been traced back to the Russian government.

Using the account as a front to reach American Muslims and their allies, the Russians pushed memes that claimed Hillary Clinton admitted the U.S. “created, funded and armed” al-Qaeda and the so-called Islamic State; claimed that John McCain was ISIS’ true founder; whitewashed blood-drenched dictator Moammar Gadhafi and praised him for not having a “Rothschild-owned central bank”; and falsely alleged Osama bin Laden was a “CIA agent.”
...
The fake account’s strongest surge in political messaging came on the heels of the April 6, 2017 U.S. missile strike against a Syrian government air base -- a response to a chemical weapon attack that killed over 80 people, including 20 children. The action marked Trump’s first significant move directly opposing the will of Russian president Vladimir Putin, and on April 9, the fake United Muslims page registered its disapproval with a meme complaining about the $93 million cost of the strike, “which could have founded [sic] Meals on Wheels until 2029.” (For good measure, it also quoted “got money for wars but can’t feed the poor,” from Tupac Shakur’s “Keep Ya Head Up.”) At least a dozen more similar memes followed—they can still be found on Facebook’s Instagram photo site—urging the U.S. military to stay out of Syria.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on September 27 [49 favorites]


--Majority of voters say Trump not fit to be President.

-Little late on that one, eh?


He lost the popular vote, and still wouldn't be President if it hadn't been for the third-party protest votes.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 1:50 PM on September 27 [8 favorites]


He lost the popular vote, and still wouldn't be President if it hadn't been for the third-party protest votes.

Don't forget the rampant voter suppression, too
posted by Existential Dread at 1:52 PM on September 27 [40 favorites]


Thank you,

Newt Gingrich Headshot
Newt Gingrich

CONTRIBUTE $100 = $300


100 bucks for a Newt Gingrich headshot? Cheap at the price!
posted by octobersurprise at 1:52 PM on September 27 [6 favorites]


Are the people on that mailing list too stupid to wonder why in the fuck these assholes keep asking THEM for money?

also, since when is $750 = 2 X $250?
posted by yoga at 1:55 PM on September 27


Uh, why are full length Republican fundraising emails getting copied and pasted into this thread? They seem pretty bog-standard to me and they're insufferable enough even when coming from less awful sources.
posted by parallellines at 1:56 PM on September 27 [43 favorites]


Good Yglesias backgrounder on the Jones Act.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:57 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Yes, third parties, voter suppression etc etc. All are important. But the biggest problem, by gigantic margins, is voter apathy. For every third party or suppressed vote there are 20 people who just can't be bothered to show up.
posted by Justinian at 2:00 PM on September 27 [10 favorites]


Fun fact about The Jones Act: It's the reason that almost 100% of cruises in the US involve a stop at a foreign port.

Most cruise lines exclusively use foreign flagged ships from Panama/Bermuda/etc. for tax reasons. Because they foreign flagged, they cannot make any trips that only stop in domestic ports. That's why a "Los Angeles to Seattle" cruise starts with a quick stop at Ensenada, MX.

My sister works for Princess Cruises in the "things are totally fucked" department, and something that comes up every once in a while is situations where the ship cannot come into the foreign port (usually weather, but sometimes natural disasters or mechanical issues). When this happens, an officer and some sailors jump into one of the tenders/lifeboats and go ashore to do the official paperwork. Sometimes even that is too hard, and the ship hangs out at sea until the situation is safer. Sometimes they can't keep the schedule and they don't arrive at the final port in time. Princess would rather deal with 100's, if not 1000's, of people missing their return travel and cut the next cruise short than violate The Jones Act.

Obliviously POTUS and the Congress can make this happen for PR, but when I learned about The Jones Act and it's repercussions from my sister, I thought it was very interesting.
posted by sideshow at 2:00 PM on September 27 [61 favorites]


Wow, you have a very different experience with answering back to racists on FB than I do. Are you responding to racist-friends or racist-strangers? I've found that if someone doesn't know you very well, they don't shut up - they just keep going. If you present facts, they ignore them and keep on trucking with their racism.

Bog-standard racist strangers being encouraged by racists in our government, just like yours. They shut up. I'm going to test this for a while, and if it keeps on working, I'll put a script up here for anyone to use.
posted by mumimor at 2:01 PM on September 27 [11 favorites]


WP: The Trump administration is restricting lawmakers in both parties from visiting storm-ravaged Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands aboard military aircraft this weekend in order to keep focused on recovery missions there, according to multiple congressional aides.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:03 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Majority of voters say Trump not fit to be President.

Can we talk about those numbers? "94 percent of Black voters say that he is not fit for the role and Hispanic voters were split 60-40 percent."

What is up with 40% of Hispanic voters? What are they seeing that I'm not?
posted by greermahoney at 2:05 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Things I learned today: Medicaid Expansion is on the ballot (!!) here in Maine this November... The legislature has passed Medicaid expansion five times, only to be blocked by [Gov.] Lepage each time.

I just heard about this as well. I'd feel much better about it if what people vote for up here actually means anything. The legislature, this month, is still debating the results from last November’s voting.
posted by LeLiLo at 2:05 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


I've found that if someone doesn't know you very well, they don't shut up - they just keep going. If you present facts, they ignore them and keep on trucking with their racism.

This is exactly my experience, too.
posted by greermahoney at 2:07 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


greermahoney: "What is up with 40% of Hispanic voters? What are they seeing that I'm not"

A fair amount of inter-generational Cuba-related grudge-holding, and an incredibly broad definition of "hispanic."
posted by schmod at 2:08 PM on September 27 [8 favorites]


Did I miss when the word "agenda" became positive in the Republican playbook?
posted by elsietheeel at 2:09 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Update: There are now 715 public comments visible (out of the moderation queue) about the 'social media' rule proposed to be implemented on permanent residents (green card holders), naturalized citizens, and others passing through the immigration process.

Please comment, folks. This is important, like many other things, but yeah. Important. Hat tip to anastasiav for the Buzzfeed link.
posted by tilde at 2:09 PM on September 27 [19 favorites]


The [Maine] legislature, this month, is still debating the results from last November’s voting.

Today's topics included whether to allow internet and/or delivery sales of marijuana. If you live in Maine and have an opinion on that, you can contact the members of the Implementation Committtee.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:10 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Yeah, if you look at the precinct map for that Florida Senate special last night, you can see exactly where the Cuban emigres live.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:10 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


What is up with 40% of Hispanic voters? What are they seeing that I'm not?

Abortion.
posted by JackFlash at 2:12 PM on September 27 [24 favorites]


Looking in at the 538 approval average, Trump had been creeping upward for most of September, but now seems to have gone in reverse again. Currently at 38.5/55.0 approve.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:12 PM on September 27


What is up with 40% of Hispanic voters? What are they seeing that I'm not?

A friend's cousin has gone full-on Trumpist white-supremacist. Not even my friend pointing out that "Your last name is Hernandez!" had any effect.

In conclusion, Hispanic voters are a land of contrasts.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:16 PM on September 27 [6 favorites]


Does he not get that Trump and most Trump voters hate people like him and wish he were deported? Oh, he's American? Doesn't matter, still deported. To... somewhere.
posted by Justinian at 2:20 PM on September 27


Yeah, in Texas I have come across quite a few Hispanic men and women who are from families that have been here for generations, speak very little Spanish, and have no deep ties to Mexico and are as trump-supportive as racist white grandpa is. It's already problematic to lump all Spanish speaking people from south of the US border as one category anyway....
posted by Burhanistan at 2:25 PM on September 27 [17 favorites]


I picked up a new biography of Jonathan Swift at the library yesterday and discovered this, a poem that forshadows our Congress, The Legion Club (an excerpt):

Let them, when they once get in
Sell the Nation for a Pin;
While they sit a picking Straws,
Let them rave of making Laws;
While they never hold their Tongue,
Let them dabble in their Dung;
Let them form a grand Committee,
How to plague and starve the City;
Let them stare, and storm, and frown,
When they see a Clergy-Gown;
Let them, 'ere they crack a Louse,
Call for th' Orders of the House;
Let them with their gosling Quills,
Scribble senseless Heads of Bills,
We may, while they strain their Throats,
Wipe our Arses with their Votes.
posted by njohnson23 at 2:28 PM on September 27 [10 favorites]


In conclusion, Hispanic voters are a land of contrasts.

Just like every other ethnic group.

But yeah, including Cubans in anything trying to gauge the feelings of "Hispanics" skews things a lot.

My ex-wife's family is all from rural Mexico, and to them, Cubans were as separate a people as Germans/Chinese/etc. Both groups share a language and a major religion, but the identity is very different. Anyone who spouted things along the lines of "The GOP has leaders that share your beliefs! We have Rubio and Cruz!" was seen as an ignorant moron.

Also, remember that until very recently, Cuban had a completely different immigration situation due to the "Wet Feet/Dry Feet" policy. Cubans were not hiding in their homes worried about ICE deporting them, for the the most part.
posted by sideshow at 2:28 PM on September 27 [10 favorites]


Only 3.5% of Hispanics identify as Cuban Americans. They have little influence on the Hispanic population outside of southern Florida.
posted by JackFlash at 2:35 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


Ruth Bader Ginsburg Has ‘No Doubt’ Sexism Played a Role in the Presidential Election
Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was asked on Tuesday night by CBS This Morning co-anchor Charlie Rose whether she believed sexism played a role during the contentious 2016 presidential election. Her response? “I have no doubt that it did.”

Speaking with Rose in a wide-ranging interview at the 92nd Street Y in New York, the 84-year-old jurist touched on the likelihood of the U.S. finally seeing a woman as president. “We came pretty close,” Ginsburg said, referring to Hillary Clinton’s campaign.

Ginsburg went on to say that, while there were “so many things” about the election that were decisive, sexism was a “major, major factor” in the outcome. She continued, “The more women out there doing things … women come in all sizes and shapes. To see the entrance of women into places where they were not there before is a hopeful sign.”
posted by chris24 at 2:38 PM on September 27 [42 favorites]




also, since when is $750 = 2 X $250?

You give $250, and they match with another $250, and then match again (DOUBLE MATCH) with yet another $250. So the total is $750.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:51 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


But yeah, including Cubans in anything trying to gauge the feelings of "Hispanics" skews things a lot.

As a Hispanic woman, can I just say how much it really irritates me when white Americans try to say that Cubans are different and special than all other Hispanics? They're not. They share a lot of values and common culture and experiences with many other Hispanic-Americans.

Hispanic-Americans tend to have their own similar Spanish acculturation, but they have different voting interests according to a lot of factors, including how successful they have been in America and how much they feel they have to lose. More recent immigrants are going to prioritize immigration law more; second and third generation families are often going to prioritize property laws more. But that doesn't make them less comprehendably Hispanic unless your idea of "what is a Hispanic" is a stereotypical new immigrant who came with nothing but the clothes on their back and no established family ties.
posted by corb at 2:52 PM on September 27 [21 favorites]


Having experience with the Castro regime does tend to make one a little warier about "socialism," though. Some of the most libertarian libertarians I've ever met were Cuban immigrants. Like how Ayn Rand became Ayn Rand because she grew up in the USSR. (People who hate the system so much that they leave and come to America are probably more opposed than the people who stay...)

Of course, many immigrants from South America have their own experiences with communist dictatorships, and I know you've mentioned a little about your own family's history before, Corb. So that doesn't totally set Cubans apart either, though the Castro regime is kind of its own thing.

I'm gonna go with a guess of "reflexive opposition to anything that smells at all like communism among people whose ancestral homelands had disastrous run-ins with communism" combined with "Catholic opposition to abortion" to account for that 40%.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:00 PM on September 27


And... Catholic opposition to Muslims, in some cases. Just because someone isn't white, doesn't mean they can't be prejudiced. And the Catholic church has an Islamophobic faction that is... much larger than it should be.

Prejudice against Muslims is the shared "value" that holds a lot of Trump's coalition together.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:14 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


Trump says he's working on an executive order to allow people to buy health insurance across state lines,

Time for the progressive -- and healthier -- states to get back to work on their own quasi-public multistate provider. Then when it becomes the only decent insurance available the red states will sue for access, or attempt to nationalize it. Giving us single payer.
posted by snuffleupagus at 3:20 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


Warner sees Reddit as potential target for Russian influence
Reddit could be the next target for federal investigators exploring Russian influence over the 2016 presidential election.

A representative from Sen. Mark Warner’s (Va.) office told The Hill that Warner, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, is interested in Reddit as a potential tool of Russian social media influence. [...]

Experts who have studied Russia’s attempts to influence the election say that Warner is right to be interested in Reddit. They note that many fake news stories can be traced back to the platform, pointing to it as the catalyst behind the spread of Pizzagate, a baseless conspiracy theory that sought to link Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton to a fictitious pedophilia ring in a Washington pizzeria in the final days of the campaign.

“[Reddit] is one of the forms that some of the coordinated information campaigns happened on,” says Samantha Bradshaw, a researcher at Oxford University who has studied how governments use social media to influence public opinion. Bradshaw says that she’s witnessed patterns on the site that suggest a deliberate effort to distribute false news.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 3:23 PM on September 27 [29 favorites]


here is a slimy and gross statement from Mark Zuckerberg re the 2016 election. This was posted on Facebook but I'm choosing to link to this two-slide Twitter image bc I think FB access is even more problematic than Twitter?
posted by lalex at 3:26 PM on September 27 [7 favorites]


@Julianna Goldman (CBS News): "BREAKING: EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt flew on a private plane for travel on July 27 in OK. Cost to taxpayers: $14,285.71. Story to come"

I'm just going to go ahead and guess that won't be his only flight to abuse taxpayer dollars.
posted by lalex at 3:31 PM on September 27 [22 favorites]


> I'm just going to go ahead and guess that won't be his only flight to abuse taxpayer dollars.

"Travelgate" was already used for a bullshit nothingburger Clinton scandal (but I repeat myself) so let's go with "Travelghazi".
posted by tonycpsu at 3:34 PM on September 27 [11 favorites]




So here is an...essay? eyewitness account? in the NYT about what Don Jr. was supposedly doing without Secret Service protection. Spoiler alert: hunting.
posted by lalex at 3:36 PM on September 27 [3 favorites]


I would love to see something criminal come out of this against Zuckerberg. The thought of his smug face in prison delights me.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:39 PM on September 27 [18 favorites]


As a Hispanic woman, can I just say how much it really irritates me when white Americans try to say that Cubans are different and special than all other Hispanics? They're not. They share a lot of values and common culture and experiences with many other Hispanic-Americans.
In Florida, Cubans were about twice as likely as non-Cuban Latinos to vote for Donald Trump. More than half (54%) supported the Republican president-elect, compared with about a quarter (26%) of non-Cuban Latinos, according to National Election Pool exit poll data.
Pew Research Center, Nov. 15, 2016
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 3:41 PM on September 27 [24 favorites]


Elizabeth Warren Is Getting Hillary-ed

Ask Scott Brown how that worked out for him.
posted by adamg at 3:44 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Warner sees Reddit as potential target for Russian influence

It won't surprise me at all if r/The_Donald turns out to be at the heart of the Russian influence campaign.
posted by diogenes at 3:56 PM on September 27 [46 favorites]


"Travelgate" was already used for a bullshit nothingburger Clinton scandal (but I repeat myself) so let's go with "Travelghazi".

The Caviar Cabinet?
posted by duffell at 4:04 PM on September 27


More like Scott Flew-it right?
posted by ian1977 at 4:08 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


The tax 'reform' thing helps the lower middle class how? A quick internet search suggests that 77 million households in the US pay no federal income tax. How in the hell does anyone in one of these households (like me) benefit from having a larger standard deduction? A deduction doesn't work like a credit like EIC. You can't take a deduction to the bank if you already have a low income or a low adjusted income. So what the fuck? Is this fooling anyone? People don't remember Romney complaining about the many many people who pay zero to the IRS? It was less than five years ago. (Seems like an eternity.) (I am ignoring trickle down. I'm a skeptic.)

I know that Trump lies and fabricates and makes non-factual claims. I'm still startled that facts can't pop out like Pokemon and do battle against political lies with any degree of effectiveness.
posted by puddledork at 4:17 PM on September 27 [15 favorites]


Here's a satisfying piece from Philip Bump at the WaPo: Your critique that FiveThirtyEight misfired on the 2016 race is wrong. Lemme go ahead and excerpt the part that deals with Maggie Haberman:
On Tuesday, Silver and the New York Times’ Maggie Haberman got into a bit of a tiff on Twitter, as journalists do. This is the tweet worth isolating:

Maggie Haberman ✔@maggieNYT
It's this keen understanding of media and politics that you demonstrated with your own modeling

[...] When Trump won in 2016 — something that Silver et. al. figured had a 1-in-4 chance of happening — it was an opportunity for those frustrated at the results in 2012 to exact revenge. More broadly, it was a perceived victory for traditional reporting (which had highlighted Trump voters frequently) over the polls, which were portrayed as having gotten the winner wrong. Without intentionally picking on Haberman too much, that’s conveyed in her tweet: “It’s this keen understanding of media and politics that you demonstrated with your own modeling.” Your numbers didn’t get it. Our reporting did.

But that comment misstates what Silver’s team actually did.

[...]Haberman’s suggestion that Silver got it wrong is, ironically, a function of both misunderstanding Silver’s math and a dismissal or misunderstanding of how the election was framed at FiveThirtyEight before Election Day.
posted by lalex at 4:20 PM on September 27 [26 favorites]


Apparently the Russians bought ads on Facebook for Black Lives Matter in cities which had bad experiences with BLM, presumably to scare white people.
posted by floam at 4:24 PM on September 27 [29 favorites]


Maggie Haberman ✔@maggieNYT
It's this keen understanding of media and politics that you demonstrated with your own modeling


Maggie Haberman is obviously not a Mefite, as if she had been following the threads here leading up to the election, she would've known that Nate Silver was pretty much the only statistician whose numbers reflected the changing reality of polls on the ground in the closely-contested states. Of course, at the time we pilloried him for it, as did just about everybody who wasn't already in the tank for trump.

Election night must have been quite a trip for him—to feel simultaneously sickened yet also vindicated by the horrors as they unfolded...
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:35 PM on September 27 [36 favorites]


I think that, within the set of all Latinx/Hispano-descended folks all over the world, Cubans are as diverse and multi-culti as those from any other nation.

Cubans in the U.S., though, esp. those who arrived in the 60s, have a *tendency* toward political conservatism that goes beyond the Catholic, "family-oriented" culture that many Latinx have in common. That's nothing to do with Cuban culture, but rather why they came here, and who they were when they were at home. Or so I've come to believe.
posted by allthinky at 4:51 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


Progressives need to prepare to go to war on this tax bill just like the Obamacare repeal deal. It's going to blow a $3 trillion to $5 trillion hole in the budget. And in a couple of years, Republicans will turn around and say we have to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and/or Social Security because we can no longer afford it, just look at the skyrocketing debt.

This was exactly their game plan during the Bush years. Bush was handed the first budget surplus in decades by Clinton and the 2001 Bush tax cuts quickly turned that into enormous deficits. Dick Cheney famously said it "this is our due." This was quickly followed by panicked cries about the "entitlement crisis" and need to cut benefits.

I hope Democrats don't fall for it again. Americans paid an awful price for the austerity budgets of the last decade in order to bring down the annual deficit by nearly a trillion dollars. Republicans are set to blow it up again for the rich and again lead an attack on "entitlements."

It's worth noting that Dianne Feinstein was one of a handful of Democratic senators to cross party lines and vote for the 2001 tax cuts, in fact the only one still remaining in office.
posted by JackFlash at 4:57 PM on September 27 [55 favorites]


I don't think Corker's statement in his announcement that he was retiring, which AtomEyes quotes in this comment, that the most important public service he has to offer the country could occur over the next 15 months has gotten enough attention overall. To me it is quite clearly a statement by Corker that if the evidence calls for it he is willing to fall on the cheeto grenade and be the first major Republican in government to move to impeach Trump.

(Ok, he's a Senator and the House starts the process but you know what I mean.)
posted by Justinian at 4:59 PM on September 27 [8 favorites]


Gosh, it's almost like the First Amendment lets anybody buy an ad for anything.

This whole Facebook thing smells like a red herring to me. What's next, that Russians are allowed to produce movies?
posted by rhizome at 5:00 PM on September 27


Gosh, it's almost like the First Amendment lets anybody buy an ad for anything.

hopefully someone more knowledgable than I will chime in here, but I'm pretty sure that expenditures on U.S. elections by foreign nationals or corporations is a federal crime?
posted by lalex at 5:05 PM on September 27 [30 favorites]


As a Hispanic woman, can I just say how much it really irritates me when white Americans try to say that Cubans are different and special than all other Hispanics? They're not.

If you are replying to my comment, the "white Americans" you are referring to grew up in an extremely small town without paved roads in Nayarit, Mexico.
posted by sideshow at 5:08 PM on September 27 [13 favorites]


It's worth noting that Dianne Feinstein was one of a handful of Democratic senators to cross party lines and vote for the 2001 tax cuts, in fact the only one still remaining in office.

She will do it again. That's why California must primary her.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:09 PM on September 27 [15 favorites]


Yeah, foreigners can’t buy ads that advocate for one candidate or another, can’t buy electioneering ads that campaign indirectly for one candidate or another and can’t coordinate with a candidate. The laws are kinda old though, and internet ads are kind of in a loophole zone. At least that’s what I learned the last time I googled it.
posted by notyou at 5:11 PM on September 27 [4 favorites]


If there's one thing that can unite Mefites of all stripes it is our antipathy for Dianne Feinstein. Thanks for all the hard work, Senator Feinstein, please accept this crappy gold watch as our thanks on your way out the door.
posted by Justinian at 5:11 PM on September 27 [10 favorites]


DiiiiiiFiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!!!
posted by notyou at 5:12 PM on September 27


hopefully someone more knowledgable than I will chime in here, but I'm pretty sure that expenditures on U.S. elections by foreign nationals or corporations is a federal crime?

I'd be delighted if someone would post a link to an ELI5-level survey of the current laws surrounding these actions.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 5:13 PM on September 27


fellow confused people: ELI5-level = Explain Like I'm 5!
posted by lalex at 5:16 PM on September 27 [15 favorites]


I doubt that buying an ad for BLM would be considered an election expenditure, and even then, Citizen's United created a large hole to drive through. I wouldn't be surprised if the only regulated election advertising is that which mentions a candidate by name.
posted by rhizome at 5:19 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


Cubans in the U.S., though, esp. those who arrived in the 60s, have a *tendency* toward political conservatism that goes beyond the Catholic, "family-oriented" culture that many Latinx have in common. That's nothing to do with Cuban culture, but rather why they came here, and who they were when they were at home.

Cubans -as well as other Central/South Americans, especially those who possessed wealth in their former countries - who arrived fleeing communists tend to be more politically conservative in the US, yes, that's definitely true. But I feel like there's this undercurrent of white Americans who believe that Cubans, and other Hispanic immigrants who don't meet their idea of what a Hispanic immigrant should be, "don't count", or "skew" the "Hispanic narrative". I don't mind when people point out voting differences - but Cubans are a normal part of the Hispanic experience, not some weird outsiders.

(A really great piece about the diversity of the Hispanic/Latin experience is Carlos Andres Gomez's "Juan Valdez, or, Why Is A White Guy Like You Named Carlos")
posted by corb at 5:22 PM on September 27 [8 favorites]


Gosh, it's almost like the First Amendment lets anybody buy an ad for anything.

It's not necessarily illegal (but it very well could be if it's done in coordination with a campaign, whether anyone needed to register as a foreign agent, etc...), but agents of the Russian government exploiting social issues to cause division and chaos in our country is a rather large problem whether it's legal or not. Russian operatives promoting an Islamophobic protest in the US isn't something we should shrug at.
posted by zachlipton at 5:23 PM on September 27 [42 favorites]


I don't think Corker's statement in his announcement that he was retiring, which AtomEyes quotes in this comment, that the most important public service he has to offer the country could occur over the next 15 months has gotten enough attention overall. To me it is quite clearly a statement by Corker that if the evidence calls for it he is willing to fall on the cheeto grenade and be the first major Republican in government to move to impeach Trump.

I'm hoping so, but I'm worried about the kinds of "important public service" that the GOP might be cooking up in the next year. OTOH it's not like the GOP will be hurting for senators to vote the party line, so Corker himself isn't necessarily required for the real nasty business, soo... I dunno. Very interested to know what it is.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:25 PM on September 27


And to bring it back round to Trump, even if he and his campaign broke no laws or did anything improper, it's a significant problem for the President of the United States to find nothing wrong with Russian operatives seeking to exploit social divisions and organizing hateful protests on US soil, particularly when said President seeks to exploit the same divisions and spread hate himself.
posted by zachlipton at 5:36 PM on September 27 [28 favorites]


But I feel like there's this undercurrent of white Americans who believe that Cubans, and other Hispanic immigrants who don't meet their idea of what a Hispanic immigrant should be, "don't count", or "skew" the "Hispanic narrative".

There's a big problem with local Democratic parties in the Midwest (probably all over, and all the way up to the national party, but local is what I can speak to) thinking of the local Hispanic population as a monoculture that will just vote Democrat without the party having to put in any effort like really getting to know them, including them, letting them lead, selling them on policies (you know, real politicking, like the local parties do for white people!), and it's so frustrating to see the "Well, we tried everything! They just don't vote!" party response to that.
posted by jason_steakums at 5:41 PM on September 27 [15 favorites]




Politico, John Bresnahan, Senate Republicans have never heard of Roy Moore: "Numerous GOP senators said they were not familiar with the Alabama Senate candidate’s controversial views — but they want him elected."
Senate Republicans say they know almost nothing about Roy Moore, their wildly controversial candidate in the Alabama special election. But they really, really want him to be elected to the Senate.

What about Moore's history of racially insensitive comments? Haven't heard anything. Homophobic remarks? Nada. Moore's claim that some American communities are living under Sharia law? Crickets. Moore's statement that 9/11 happened "because we’ve distanced ourselves from God?" Nothing for you on that. Moore's assertion Democratic Rep. Keith Ellison shouldn't be allowed to serve in Congress because he's a Muslim? We'll get back to you. Moore saying Mitch McConnell should be replaced as Senate majority leader? Uhh, zip.

The day after Moore handily defeated incumbent GOP Sen. Luther Strange — who was backed by both McConnell and President Donald Trump — his potential future Senate GOP colleagues insist they're not aware of the years of inflammatory comments and actions by the Alabama jurist. And they're not going to "pre-judge" Moore at all because, well, he'll just be one of 100 senators and they're all equal in the World's Greatest Deliberative Body.
First place in the deliberate indifference to hate contest goes to Sen. Heller, who offered up "Who won? I wasn't paying attention...I'm just worried about taxes." But come for lots of other Republican Senators expressing ignorance over anything Moore has said or done while wanting him to win.
posted by zachlipton at 5:55 PM on September 27 [34 favorites]


He wants to cut taxes for the rich, that's all they fucking care about.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:02 PM on September 27 [4 favorites]


Corrupt as well as batshit insane, Interior Secretary (and pirate captain) Ryan Zinke is carving out a special rule exemption for his home state, to boost his future election chances there.
posted by darkstar at 6:08 PM on September 27 [10 favorites]


Yes, third parties, voter suppression etc etc. All are important. But the biggest problem, by gigantic margins, is voter apathy. For every third party or suppressed vote there are 20 people who just can't be bothered to show up.

I wish this bit of conventional wisdom could be permanently retired, at least at empirical/leftwing places like this. The reason so few people show up is that the US voting system is screwed up from top to bottom: it's on Tuesdays with no holiday; we have a far larger percentage of poor and working-class people who can't afford to take even an afternoon off; most local elections are blow-outs in our non-proportional, first-past-the-post and gerrymandered system; most states are meaningless in most presidential elections; and at least one and often both of our two main parties have spent centuries working to disenfranchise everyone but older white men from even being able to vote. Given all these huge impediments to voting, it's amazing that we get the turnout we do. Low turnout is not the fault of the voters, and it's misguided to blame them for "apathy" or other moral failings: for every person who tried to vote this year and failed, there are 20 who tried at one point earlier in their lives and failed because of work impediments, vote-blocking, or simply a sense of futility living in a district whose representative has won by 70% as long as they can remember, and whose electoral votes are irrelevant to winning the presidency. Many Americans are deplorable for many reasons, but voter apathy is really not one we can blame on the people.
posted by chortly at 6:14 PM on September 27 [98 favorites]


Apparently the Russians bought ads on Facebook for Black Lives Matter in cities which had bad experiences with BLM, presumably to scare white people.

This is straight out of the anti-American/Western poli-sci treatise Osnovy geopolitiki (Foundations of Geopolitics), a.k.a. Putin's Playbook. One of its recommendations for undermining the US is "to provoke all forms of instability and separatism within the borders of the United States (it is possible to make use of the political forces of Afro-American racists)." [emphasis added] In general, it advises, "It is especially important to introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements—extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S."

NEW from NYT: Russia relied heavily on Twitter to sway the 2016 vote, and the subterfuge continues: Fake accounts even stoked furor over N.F.L. protests

You don't stop using a tactic when it's still working. The Russian influence operation monitoring site Hamilton 68 lists #boycottNFL, #NFL, and #takeaknee among the top hashtags promoted by Kremlin-linked bots and trolls on Twitter in the past 48 hours.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:21 PM on September 27 [44 favorites]


Many Americans are deplorable for many reasons, but voter apathy is really not one we can blame on the people.

no, sorry, but i really can't go for that - i've met too many people in my life who think that voting is bullshit, our political system is all bullshit and they're not going to bother voting because it's all bullshit

it doesn't help matters that it's a viewpoint with some basis in reality

if you claim to be empirical then you HAVE to be willing to confront the evidence - many potential voters don't show up because they're disgusted and don't give a damn, not because of impediments
posted by pyramid termite at 6:21 PM on September 27 [16 favorites]


@DanLamothe (WaPo)
Pentagon says there are currently about a combined 5,000 active-duty troops and National Guardsmen involved in Puerto Rico.

@EricHolthaus Retweeted Dan Lamothe
For context: 22,000 troops deployed to Haiti after the 2010 earthquake
24,000 deployed to Japan after the 2011 tsunami
And PR is in the USA.

--

And for Harvey? 13,000.
posted by chris24 at 6:26 PM on September 27 [53 favorites]


Read the Memo on the Implications of the Alabama Race for Republicans

The NYT has an incredible AL-Sen post-mortem obtained from Mitch McConnell's PAC.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:27 PM on September 27 [17 favorites]


Trump has achieved in nine months what I thought could never be done:

He's out-assholed Jackson,

out-stupided Bush the Lesser.

and out-corrupted Nixon.

Quite the hat trick.
posted by darkstar at 6:28 PM on September 27 [31 favorites]


Read the Memo on the Implications of the Alabama Race for Republicans

#4 is really significant:
4. The Republican Congress has replaced President Obama as the bogeyman for conservative GOP primary voters. Opposition to Obama used to be a mainstay of Republican messaging. In Alabama, Strange’s litigation against Obama’s executive actions would have been political gold a year ago. But with Obama out of the picture, our polling found the issue to be a middling votegetter. Now the answer to what is wrong in Washington is the Republican Congress. A new CNN national poll found 53% of Republican voters think the Republican Congress is taking the party in the wrong direction, compared to 79% who prefer Trump’s vision for the party. In the NBC poll, just 27% of Trump supporters and 51% of Republican party supporters are “satisfied” with Republicans in Washington. This narrative is driven by Trump himself, and it resonates with primary voters who believe the Republican Congress “isn’t doing enough” (as we frequently heard in focus groups) to advance the President’s agenda.
In short, the Republican base hates McConnell like they used to hate Obama. And Trump is the one twisting the knife.
posted by zachlipton at 6:38 PM on September 27 [64 favorites]


if you claim to be empirical then you HAVE to be willing to confront the evidence - many potential voters don't show up because they're disgusted and don't give a damn, not because of impediments

And why are they "disgusted and don't give a damn"? I mean, sure, we can always find someone to blame for being willfully petty, but when we're talking about the US turnout levels vs other developed democracies, the "why" is only answerable based on structural differences between our country and all those others -- and by far the largest differences are due to FPP gerrymandered supermajority districts, Tuesdays, poor worker rights, the electoral college, and the like. It's not an actual explanation to just say that Americans are just bad people -- it's really a form of reverse American exceptionalism, as well as being anti-empirical. It's trendy to blame voters for being hateful or apathetic and revile social scientific attempts to provide antecedent causes for those voter behaviors, but with turnout at least, there's a voluminous social science literature explaining how much of the US turnout difference compared to other countries is due to these structural factors. Having "met too many people" who are deadbeats is not "evidence;" at best, it's a proximate explanation for how systemic impediments have turned off so many potential voters.
posted by chortly at 6:41 PM on September 27 [32 favorites]


unfortunately, the apathy i'm talking about is not a new phenomenon - look at the actual stats

the voter turnout in 1932, 1948, 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2012 was less than in 2016

this is a significant and constant pattern and a very empirical one - using occam's razor, what is the simplest explanation?

that through the last 85 years a significant section of the american people just don't care and that outnumbers all other reasons - this doesn't mean that voter suppression doesn't exist, but it's far outweighed by those who are apathetic and/or disgusted

yes, i've met these people - and you have too - there's too many of them for us not to meet them
posted by pyramid termite at 7:02 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


pyramid termite, Tuesdays, gerrymandering, and voter suppression are also consistent through all of those years (well, voter suppression was obviously worse at some points than others).

My political theorist friend tells me that the U.S. made Tuesday ballot day because it allowed folks to travel on Mondays to their polling place and Wednesdays back home, back when transport was human- and animal-powered and polling places few and far between.

Obviously the reason for Tuesday balloting died a long time ago but we still do it. We don't give a holiday. And we cut the power of people's votes with gerrymandered districts.

Disgust and apathy are endemic to all of these issues, not independent of them.
posted by allthinky at 7:17 PM on September 27 [21 favorites]


Huh: The BBC Launches Korean Language News: A New Option for North Korean Radio Listeners. "On September 25, the BBC launched its Korean-language service, adding another voice to radio stations already targeting North Koreans with news and information....Officially, the BBC says its broadcasts are intended for the “Korean peninsula”—no doubt an attempt to partially deflect complaints from the North Korean government—but there is little doubt of who the real target is."
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:21 PM on September 27 [16 favorites]


You know what breeds disgust and apathy? Voting for the candidate who wins the most votes, but still "loses". Voting for the party that gets the most votes, but loses. We're teaching generations of kids that their vote does not count, because Republicans will cheat anyway.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on September 27 [77 favorites]


I agree with you, T.D. Strange. How do you propose we correct it?
posted by Archelaus at 7:32 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Sure, we can understand and even sympathise with apathy and disgust; but will apathy and disgust -- in short, inaction -- solve the problem?
posted by phliar at 7:43 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]


40% of the times I've voted for President in my lifetime, the candidate who won the most votes, lost.

How do you propose we correct it?

We probably can't. At least not without first defeating the Republican party entirely, and that's a political question, not a structural one. The solution would be to rewrite the Constitution to eliminate the electoral college and the malapportioned Senate, and that won't happen. The next best solution would be to push enough states to sign the popular vote interstate compact on the Presidential level, which would help. The Senate will remain an unsolvable problem that will continue getting worse as Democrats continue to self-sort into the cities and Republicans are left with misrepresented land area as a de facto veto over the majority of the population. A SCOTUS ruling against partisan gerrymandering could've also gone a long way, but that's also now most likely dead after the generational loss of Stolen Justice Gorsuch's seat.

The problem with structural failures is correcting them requires reimaging the entire foundation. This country is not equipped to do that, because one party benefits disproportionately from the broken system and has zero desire or incentive to revise it more equitably. Rather, they fully realize their advantage and are completely committed to maintaining and increasing it by any means necessary, including treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:44 PM on September 27 [28 favorites]


Ah, you don't have to eliminate the electoral college and redesign the Senate. You just need to change the gerrymandering law to use Voronoi projection (optimally compact) districting.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:59 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


You can't fix gerrymandering with math because Democrats and Republicans have different spatial clustering characteristics. Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you a gerrymandering scheme that claims to not be gerrymandering.
posted by 0xFCAF at 8:06 PM on September 27 [9 favorites]


A centroidal Voronoi tessellation, as though the voting districts were designed by bees? I knew that the bees would come back in somehow.
posted by XMLicious at 8:07 PM on September 27 [17 favorites]


Even if you can design perfectly fair 50/50 districts with math (a) that requires implementation at the state levels and Republican controlled states have no incentive to do it, and (b) doesn't fix the Senate problem, because the Senate is in effect a permanent gerrymander enshrined in the Constitution. There's no fixing the Senate.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:10 PM on September 27 [5 favorites]


Pentagon says there are currently about a combined 5,000 active-duty troops and National Guardsmen involved in Puerto Rico.

This is the result of wondering whether to fish or cut bait for a half century. We need you as a state, Puerto Rico, so we can protect and aid you adequately with the full power and mighty coffers of the Union. Trump is deliberately punishing you for not being his kinda "white" and not voting for him.

While we're at it, the Far Pacific, in all of its archipelagoes and island oases, deserves a state if Wyoming does.

The storm isn't coming. It's here. We must fight together. As Americans.

Let me derail a bit - "Americans Speak English." No. In parts of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire and Louisiana, they speak French dialects. They have since before the founding of the Republic. Marten Van Buren, the President, grew up without knowing a lick of English, he had to learn it as a second language, his family spoke Dutch. They were here before most of our immigrant forebears.

Americans speak Castillian spanish, and some families in New Mexico have been speaking it since before Jamestown.

Texans and Pennsylvanians who to this day speak a German dialect first as a child, english second, and this has been going on since the Revolutionary War.

And these are all European Languages! There are a lot of languages that have been around since before Columbus spoken on the mainland and in the Pacific that are taught to babies in their own home as their language.

There are newer languages that are American, many of them uniquely so. Justice Clarence Thomas grew up speaking Gullah, not English.

Spanish is one of two dominant languages in Puerto Rico, and as an American with a firm grasp of what it means to be American... you should be completely unfazed by that...

...Unless you're a horrible White-ethno-nationalist who likes parading around in polo-shirts with tiki-torches.
posted by Slap*Happy at 8:10 PM on September 27 [55 favorites]


50/50 districts aren't "fair". When every 50/50 district swings 2 points (for example, because an unpopular figure is at the top of the ticket), the popular party gets 100% of the seats with 52% of the vote.

This is because you can't fix gerrymandering with math.
posted by 0xFCAF at 8:12 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]


Elizabeth Warren Is Getting Hillary-ed

They've been trying to smear her for years and all they've got is the "Pocohontas" slur. There is no comparison to Clinton.
posted by Coventry at 8:13 PM on September 27


And almost all geometry-based solutions will lead to a "cracking and packing" district