May 7, 2002

1:49 PM

Army Radio reported that at least one person was killed and 30 injured in an explosion in Rishon Letzion, either at a banquetting hall or a disco, on Sakharov Street in the town's new industrial zone. Initial reports stated that the explosion occurred at around 11:00 P.M., and emergency service were on the way to the scene moments later. Peace? Yeah right...
posted by martz (44 comments total)

Update: at least 15 people have been killed in the explosion in a snooker hall. Hope the numbers won't grow higher.
posted by martz at 2:09 PM on May 7, 2002

(Linking to yourself is really bad form, dude, especially when you already have the exact same item running on your weblog. Metafilter isn't your weblog.)
posted by donkeyschlong at 2:14 PM on May 7, 2002

nytimes
msnbc
cnn
posted by m@L at 2:27 PM on May 7, 2002

Woops, sorry!
I didn't mean to self-link to my site. I was too upset to notice that. Here's the original article.

Update: apperantly there were no guards to that snooker hall, the suicide bomber came in carrying a briefcase loaded with explosives, and with no one to stop him blowed himself up and destroyed the entire 4th floor.
posted by martz at 2:31 PM on May 7, 2002

I quickly spoke with my family just minutes ago. They live in Rishon Le Zion and have informed me that they are all safe. I send my wishes to all those with friends and family in Rishon (hope they hear the same good news).
posted by I am Generic at 2:37 PM on May 7, 2002

Unbelievable.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:44 PM on May 7, 2002

No guard? Tal G has indicated that's all but unheard of now.

The extra security that they have everywhere is getting to be routine: when I park my car in a garage they go through the trunk and the backseat and I don't think twice about it. I can walk into a building with someone and submit to a pro forma frisking without interrupting my conversation. * (Last month, he wrote he and his wife grabbed breakfast in a cafe with no guard. Tense at first, then you forget.)
posted by dhartung at 2:47 PM on May 7, 2002

Well, the situation in Israel is that everywhere you go you have security guards. They search your car when you want to park, they search your purse when you try to go into a shop/resturant/whatever, they search your body if you're a man. Privacy here has been neglected in favor of security. Soon you'll get to that phase as well if we don't do something about terror now.
posted by martz at 2:51 PM on May 7, 2002

of course, it was timed so that it would be precisely at the moment sharon and bush were meeting...
posted by judith at 2:56 PM on May 7, 2002

Looks like it, judith: wire reports suggest HAMAS, though we'd expect everyone else to claim too. Whoever, whatever, still a fucking bastard.
posted by riviera at 3:02 PM on May 7, 2002

R.I.P. poolplayers. This makes me sad for the Palestinians who are just trying to eke out a living. The Israelis are the richest nation in the region and are going nowhere. They'll continue to live in relative luxury albeit terrorized. How this is going to help the poor Palestinian refugees get running water and garbage pickup any sooner is beyond me. When elephants battle the grass gets trampled.
posted by quercus at 3:12 PM on May 7, 2002

Snooker=pool?
posted by ParisParamus at 3:27 PM on May 7, 2002

Snooker is what they call pool in the rest of the world, isn't it?
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:31 PM on May 7, 2002

Not exactly. it's the same game, different rules.
posted by martz at 3:32 PM on May 7, 2002

Bigger table.
posted by laz-e-boy at 3:32 PM on May 7, 2002

Snooker is what they call pool in the rest of the world, isn't it?
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:33 PM on May 7, 2002

Snooker=pool?

No.

Snooker is on a pool-like table that is much bigger. The game "snooker" uses 16 redballs and six other-colored balls and follows a labyrinthine set of rules to score points by hitting the balls into pockets in a certain order. It is very popular outside the US.
posted by plaino at 3:34 PM on May 7, 2002

oops...I meant 15 red balls
posted by plaino at 3:36 PM on May 7, 2002

(While we're on this subtopic: Is billiards something else entirely?)
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:39 PM on May 7, 2002

Thread Drift (or is it Thread Hijack?)
posted by laz-e-boy at 3:44 PM on May 7, 2002

Rishon LeZion {alt. spelling} "was the first permanent settlement established in Erez Israel by Zionist immigrants", in 1882. Though it is being described as a suburb of Tel Aviv, it is also the fourth largest city in Israel

donkey: pool, billiards & snooker faq. American 8-ball "pool" is only one of many billiards games.
posted by dhartung at 3:46 PM on May 7, 2002

(Damn, I didn't realize my query got belched out twice like that.)
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:57 PM on May 7, 2002

Unbelievable indeed.

You mean after Ariel Sharon's orgy of destruction, the Palestinians still don't like the Israelis? Who could have seen that?

Apparently they (or at least enough of them to pull off this kind of thing, not to make broad generalizations) not only still don't like the Israelis, but they still have the infrastructure to do this. Infrastructure that's destruction was the entire point of the raids/occupation.

I suppose it will be interesting to see what Israel's response will be. I guess the best solution will be for Arafat to go out and arrest the perpetrators and bring them to justice. I doubt that'll happen.
posted by delmoi at 4:01 PM on May 7, 2002

delmoi: The IDF is hardly finished with its incursions. And Gaza has hardly been touched. No one believes the attacks will stop for the foreseeable future.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:21 PM on May 7, 2002

Apparently they (or at least enough of them to pull off this kind of thing, not to make broad generalizations) not only still don't like the Israelis, but they still have the infrastructure to do this. Infrastructure that's destruction was the entire point of the raids/occupation.

delmoi - what are you getting at? that the israelis guessed wrongly that the PA infrastructure was supporting terrorism or something else?
posted by charlesv at 4:34 PM on May 7, 2002

donkeyschlong: yes, billiards is something else entirely. There are no pockets on the table and it's 5 x 10, rather than pool-room-sized pool tables at 4.5 x 9 or snooker's 6 x 12. The balls are different sizes in each game. The primary game in billiards -- the eight-ball of billiards, if you will -- is called three-cushion or three-rail. You score points by bouncing your cue ball (there are two) off a combination of rails and other balls. Billiards in any form is prohibitively frustrating for a beginner.

Me, I prefer nine-ball.

[/hijack]
posted by swerve at 5:00 PM on May 7, 2002

First the subtle, then the profane. The subtle: the 17-day rule is the amount of time between an attack and when people are so tired of extra security they let their guard down. Just wait 17 days, and "boom" again. And bombing is #1 among aggressive actions for a high success rate, as the bomber chooses the means, the time, the target, and the method.

The profane: the war is a demographic exercise. Advantage Palestinian. For no matter what they do, as long as Israelis total number drops, either by death, emigration or low birth rate, the Palestinians will win. Even if it takes them 50 years, there just won't be any Israelis left to fight. They already outnumber Israelis by 10 or more to one.
posted by kablam at 6:07 PM on May 7, 2002

That assumes the Israelis aren't more than 10x smarter than their enemies. At present, that's a false assumption.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:08 PM on May 7, 2002

Care to match wits with this stick of dynamite, then?
posted by five fresh fish at 7:30 PM on May 7, 2002

No.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:56 PM on May 7, 2002

They already outnumber Israelis by 10 or more to one.


What do you mean?
posted by chaz at 9:20 PM on May 7, 2002

kablam: You are referring to the original Human Bomb. And it's not just limited to one side. For years the Israeli settlers have trying to match the Palestinians birth for birth. That's one of the reasons for the existence of the settlements, armaments in a slow war of overpopulation.

Regarding this latest attack, I think it's time Israel turned the tanks around and established direct consequences. When Israelis are attacked, there will be 24 hours warning before town X is bombed to rubble. Don't like it? Well then stop supporting those who would kill us. Each new attack will result in a progressively stronger response.

Moderate Palestinians need to understand that the actions of their leaders are causing their suffering. Then a group of those people need to find a way to stand up to their leaders without ending up hanged from a lamppost or dragged through the streets.
posted by joemaller at 9:43 PM on May 7, 2002

Regarding this latest attack, I think it's time Israel turned the tanks around and established direct consequences. When Israelis are attacked, there will be 24 hours warning before town X is bombed to rubble. Don't like it? Well then stop supporting those who would kill us. Each new attack will result in a progressively stronger response.

Collective punishment: punishing innocents for the acts of extremists, isn't that what this suicide bomber was doing? Perhaps you could present some evidence to show how this ridiculously shallow idea will work, for either side?
posted by niceness at 3:10 AM on May 8, 2002

Collective punishment: punishing innocents for the acts of extremists, isn't that what this suicide bomber was doing?

No. He was killing Jews for being jewish.

Perhaps you could present some evidence to show how this ridiculously shallow idea will work, for either side?

Germany since 1945. Japan since 1945. Both countries were mostly leveled because of the actions of their unelected governments.

Governments, including dictatorships, are responsible for the actions of their ruled populations. Those populations however are also accountable for the actions of their governments.
posted by joemaller at 7:35 AM on May 8, 2002

Hitler was elected, after the Nazis won a majority in March of 1933.
posted by charlesv at 7:45 AM on May 8, 2002

I've always kind of liked the idea of turning over N square miles of territory to Palestinian administration for every day without a suicide bombing, and taking N * 10 back for every person killed by one.
posted by dhartung at 8:49 AM on May 8, 2002

Collective punishment: punishing innocents for the acts of extremists, isn't that what this suicide bomber was doing?

No. He was killing Jews for being jewish.

I keep hearing this. And at the risk of exposing myself to cries of "anti-semite!", I have to ask " why is killing someone for being Jewish any less appropriate than killing them for being Palestinian?" which, after much discussion, hopefully leads to "it is never appropriate to kill anyone based on (race/color/creed/etc)"....which brings us to your initial novel idea, "Leveling 'city x' ", whose resident's only crime is that they are palestinian. And as such, must support the horrible acts of terror being comminted against (jewish) civilians.

The argument that (the palestinian) people "stop supporting those who would kill us." or have their lives destroyed can be extended to either side of this conflict. I am sure an argument could be made that the majority support of Sharon by Israelies makes them a viable military target, if you follow the same weak, one sided logic that produced your Kill em all and let god sort 'em out statement.
posted by das_2099 at 8:59 AM on May 8, 2002

The IDF do not kill people for being Palestinian (unlike the terrorists, unlike Syria, and unlike Osama, to name a few). The IDF go into the West Bank with specific information regarding known terrorists and try to capture or kill them. And some innocents die in the process. But said innocents should either ask themselves why they allow bomb factories to be established in their basements/next door. And Yasser should be asked the same question--or he and the PA should get out of the way. But of course it won't get out of the way, because the PA exists to destroy Israel.

And the IDF will be doing the same thing in Gaza in the coming....minutes--hopefully. So: Chazaq (strength)! Amats (courage)!
posted by ParisParamus at 11:28 AM on May 8, 2002

But said innocents should either ask themselves why they allow bomb factories to be established in their basements/next door.

What the hell do you expect them to do? Move to a nicer neighborhood?

If a foreign military destroyed my house because of what my neighbors were doing, I'd want their heads on a stick. What about you?
posted by electro at 1:05 PM on May 8, 2002

What the hell do you expect them to do? Move to a nicer neighborhood?

So, I guess you're saying that most Palestinian Arabs in the territories welcome the IDF missions. Glad to hear it. We're all in agreement.
posted by ParisParamus at 1:43 PM on May 8, 2002

I am sure an argument could be made that the majority support of Sharon by Israelies makes them a viable military target.

Except Israel is defending a civil democratic society where even its Arabs enjoy quantums' more civil and economic rights than the people anywhere else in the Middle East (and certainly chez Arafat); and innocent Palestinan Arabs are not being targeted by the IDF.
posted by ParisParamus at 1:50 PM on May 8, 2002

"And some innocents die in the process. But said innocents should either ask themselves why they allow bomb factories to be established in their basements/next door"

Right..i see we are back to the old "we only kill a few unfortunate souls, who really should have stopped their leaders" argument. You know , when you take the statement you made above, and change it to read "..ask tehmselves why they allow their government to continue to expand into occupied territory regardless of international law and any sense of decency"....your argument seems to boil down to numbers of innocents killed.

There is no clear, shining TRUTH here waiting to be realized (or justifying any of the shit that has happened, on either side)...every argument either side makes can be accuretly refuted with like behaviour, the only difference being scale (and munitions from the USA , of course)


I don't think there is any doubt that Arrafat is "linked" to terrorist orginizations, and there is certainly no doubt in my mind that the killing of civilians is a horrid, wretched thing. I think the issue for me (and some like minded people i believe) is that killing a civilian population because they won't overthrow their government seems a bit much to swallow.
posted by das_2099 at 1:50 PM on May 8, 2002

What the hell do you expect them to do? Move to a nicer neighborhood?

So, I guess you're saying that most Palestinian Arabs in the territories welcome the IDF missions. Glad to hear it. We're all in agreement.

Of course, this begs the question of how is one supposed to move to a nicer neighborhood when one can't even travel 5 miles to go to work, or build a house to live in without it getting bulldozed. It certainly seems that there is a war in which both sides are engaged in an attempt at ethnic cleansing.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:03 PM on May 8, 2002

Except Israel is defending a civil democratic society where even its Arabs enjoy quantums' more civil and economic rights than the people anywhere else in the Middle East (and certainly chez Arafat); and innocent Palestinan Arabs are not being targeted by the IDF.

I see that qualifier all the time, and it always disturbs me. The implication and the reality is that Israeli Arabs are still discriminated against in this democratic society, just not too much. What the fudge?! Isn't this a contradiction in terms? Democracy shamocracy.
posted by donkeyschlong at 5:03 PM on May 8, 2002