20 years is arbitrary nonsense. A blip.
October 26, 2017 8:48 AM Subscribe
“Our software is bullshit, our literary essays are too long, the good editors all quit or got fired, hardly anyone is experimenting with form in a way that wakes me up, the IDEs haven't caught up with the 1970s, the R&D budgets are weak, the little zines are badly edited, the tweets are poor, the short stories make no sense, people still care too much about magazines, the Facebook posts are nightmares, LinkedIn has ruined capitalism, and the big tech companies that have arisen are exhausting, lumbering gold-thirsty kraken that swim around with sour looks on their face wondering why we won't just give them all our gold and save the time.” MeFi's own Paul Ford (previously 1, 2, 3) meditates on 20 years of the internet.
I love Paul Ford's writing. Always have.
"Social media is veal calves being served tasty veal."
posted by eustacescrubb at 8:57 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
"Social media is veal calves being served tasty veal."
posted by eustacescrubb at 8:57 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Now I have to remember how to log into my website and update the XML files.
The hollow call of someone signing in to sign off permanently. I recall Chris Onstad of Achewood saying almost the exact same thing about a year before the current, seemingly permanent end of Achewood. (Although I think he was referring to Gopher or whatever.)
We're too old, too busy, and real life has turned out to be less shitty than online, once all the normies started having the internet in their pocket, instead of it being the purvue of weirdos who spent too much time on their desktop computers.
Not really meant as an offense to normies, but arguably Apple and Facebook working to make their products super easy to use for anyone, instead of the requirement of at least being partially technically adept to make their own website. (I mean, fucking Cory Doctorow managed it and that guy mangles code like it's going out of style). The point being that suddenly the internet became a clusterfuck of every idiot who didn't have anything important to say to shout their unimportant drivel from the rooftops. (Not to say that every tech nerd had something important to say, much of that was drivel, too.)
What began as an escape from the world of celebrity-focused news media has morphed into a "I get to suck Louis CK's dick over twitter and he might retweet me for being such a pathetic fanboy!"
An example: The first post on Reddit was about The Downing Street Memo, a real life, verifiable conspiracy, with two world leaders in on it. Reddit now shouts down anyone who questions the status quo. Fat chance having a discussion about something similar these days without paid operatives from both sides of the political aisle coming in to fuck with the discussion and do anything they can to prevent negative discussion about their chosen political ideology.
Maybe when the internet became a clusterfuck like the rest of the planet, we got bored of it.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
The hollow call of someone signing in to sign off permanently. I recall Chris Onstad of Achewood saying almost the exact same thing about a year before the current, seemingly permanent end of Achewood. (Although I think he was referring to Gopher or whatever.)
We're too old, too busy, and real life has turned out to be less shitty than online, once all the normies started having the internet in their pocket, instead of it being the purvue of weirdos who spent too much time on their desktop computers.
Not really meant as an offense to normies, but arguably Apple and Facebook working to make their products super easy to use for anyone, instead of the requirement of at least being partially technically adept to make their own website. (I mean, fucking Cory Doctorow managed it and that guy mangles code like it's going out of style). The point being that suddenly the internet became a clusterfuck of every idiot who didn't have anything important to say to shout their unimportant drivel from the rooftops. (Not to say that every tech nerd had something important to say, much of that was drivel, too.)
What began as an escape from the world of celebrity-focused news media has morphed into a "I get to suck Louis CK's dick over twitter and he might retweet me for being such a pathetic fanboy!"
An example: The first post on Reddit was about The Downing Street Memo, a real life, verifiable conspiracy, with two world leaders in on it. Reddit now shouts down anyone who questions the status quo. Fat chance having a discussion about something similar these days without paid operatives from both sides of the political aisle coming in to fuck with the discussion and do anything they can to prevent negative discussion about their chosen political ideology.
Maybe when the internet became a clusterfuck like the rest of the planet, we got bored of it.
posted by deadaluspark at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2017 [19 favorites]
big tech companies that have arisen are exhausting, lumbering gold-thirsty kraken that swim around with sour looks on their face
Truth.
posted by Fizz at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Truth.
posted by Fizz at 9:03 AM on October 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
This part here, several bits which have been quoted above, is just so darned true it makes me want to go back to bed and not get up:
the big tech companies that have arisen are exhausting, lumbering gold-thirsty kraken that swim around with sour looks on their face wondering why we won't just give them all our gold and save the time. With every flap of their terrible fins they squash another good idea in the interest of consolidating pablum into a single database, the better to jam it down our mental baby duck feeding tubes in order to make even more of the cognitive paté that Silicon Valley is at pains to proclaim a delicacy. Social media is veal calves being served tasty veal.
posted by latkes at 9:12 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
the big tech companies that have arisen are exhausting, lumbering gold-thirsty kraken that swim around with sour looks on their face wondering why we won't just give them all our gold and save the time. With every flap of their terrible fins they squash another good idea in the interest of consolidating pablum into a single database, the better to jam it down our mental baby duck feeding tubes in order to make even more of the cognitive paté that Silicon Valley is at pains to proclaim a delicacy. Social media is veal calves being served tasty veal.
posted by latkes at 9:12 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Eternal September Song
posted by overeducated_alligator at 9:19 AM on October 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by overeducated_alligator at 9:19 AM on October 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Somewhere near you, there is probably an old job shop factory, with no real internet, perhaps making gears, or some other tangible good.... work there for a while, and you'll start to get an appreciation for a whole different reality, and a different perspective on this.
We can communicate with our friends much, much easier than it ever was, and we can make things with production values off the scale from 20 years ago... if we're just willing to pay for the things we want directly, without advertising or other stuff.
We're all like bored teenagers, who fail to realize the immense advantages our forbearers have given us over their own times. Who has to get up in the middle of the night to shovel coal into the furnace to keep everyone from freezing?
It's all amazing, and wonderful, you just need perspective to realize that.
posted by MikeWarot at 9:21 AM on October 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
We can communicate with our friends much, much easier than it ever was, and we can make things with production values off the scale from 20 years ago... if we're just willing to pay for the things we want directly, without advertising or other stuff.
We're all like bored teenagers, who fail to realize the immense advantages our forbearers have given us over their own times. Who has to get up in the middle of the night to shovel coal into the furnace to keep everyone from freezing?
It's all amazing, and wonderful, you just need perspective to realize that.
posted by MikeWarot at 9:21 AM on October 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
We're all like bored teenagers, who fail to realize the immense advantages our forbearers have given us over their own times
Uhh, I kinda spent the last 22 years helping build this immense pile of flaming shit, I have a right to criticize what it has become? I am the forbearer. What I gave you is garbage.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:26 AM on October 26, 2017 [52 favorites]
Uhh, I kinda spent the last 22 years helping build this immense pile of flaming shit, I have a right to criticize what it has become? I am the forbearer. What I gave you is garbage.
posted by Annika Cicada at 9:26 AM on October 26, 2017 [52 favorites]
BTW, veal.party is currently a couple of bucks at namesilo, if someone wants to do a Stupid Internet Trick.
posted by suetanvil at 9:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by suetanvil at 9:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I keep looking for the replacements for the countercultures of the BBS era/early internet, and it feels like, for the most part, the internet has rendered the very idea of counterculture obsolete. So it's not just that the internet itself turned out badly (which it largely has), but that it killed off all its competition in the process of becoming awful.
The are really very few cultural spaces, online or offline, for mid-20th c. relics like me to go to that feel like "home". And the ones that are left feel very small and fragile, and dependent on the internet for their survival in ways that seem guaranteed to help snuff them out in the end.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
The are really very few cultural spaces, online or offline, for mid-20th c. relics like me to go to that feel like "home". And the ones that are left feel very small and fragile, and dependent on the internet for their survival in ways that seem guaranteed to help snuff them out in the end.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [24 favorites]
The Internet as we know it today has tremendous externalities. The waste products (both literal and metaphorical) of the attention economy/ecosystem are toxic, and exposure to these waste products has lingering effects on our society, political discourse, economy, you name it.
Of course the Internet enables amazing, wonderful things. Of course it does. The Industrial Revolution enabled amazing things, too. It also brought choking pollution, labor exploitation, economic disruption, and robber-barons. The automobile brought us amazing things, but also sprawl, more pollution, white flight, weakened public transit infrastructure, large numbers of fatalities...
It takes a little while after a new technology takes root for there to be substantial criticism of its negative impact. The criticism gets brushed off as Luddism at first. Criticism exists of the Internet and the role of computers in society. But that criticism is not yet organized. It doesn't have a movement, a name, a leader, a symbol.
We're going to need one, and soon.
posted by overeducated_alligator at 9:36 AM on October 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
Of course the Internet enables amazing, wonderful things. Of course it does. The Industrial Revolution enabled amazing things, too. It also brought choking pollution, labor exploitation, economic disruption, and robber-barons. The automobile brought us amazing things, but also sprawl, more pollution, white flight, weakened public transit infrastructure, large numbers of fatalities...
It takes a little while after a new technology takes root for there to be substantial criticism of its negative impact. The criticism gets brushed off as Luddism at first. Criticism exists of the Internet and the role of computers in society. But that criticism is not yet organized. It doesn't have a movement, a name, a leader, a symbol.
We're going to need one, and soon.
posted by overeducated_alligator at 9:36 AM on October 26, 2017 [14 favorites]
...and TV is a vast wasteland.
It all sounds so familiar!
posted by jeff-o-matic at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
It all sounds so familiar!
posted by jeff-o-matic at 9:45 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I hear you, ryanshepard. Part of why I can't develop a screaming panic over the "death of net neutrality" and nasty govt-corporate ISP conglomerate support and the rights-management software creeping into the internet o' things, is that I remember the early years. (Well, maybe not the early early years, but I was active online before AOL was a monthly-cost service and many ISPs were pay-by-the-hour.) I remember non-internet BBS things. (I miss &TOTSE.) (Which has a website, but it's not the same.)
Twenty-odd years ago, I had a button that read:
My hope for surviving the waves of meaningless drivel that are the majority of the internet: We have better hardware now. We have better software now. We have storage and exchange capacities that were literally not imagined twenty years ago - not that nobody thought numbers went that high, but that nobody had any idea how they would work if everyone had access to them.
All we need for the Hacker Revolution to explode into diverse, creative, countercultural action is... less reliance on corporate-run monopolistic parts of the internet. And that's not likely to happen while it's easy. I'm not advocating the end of Amazon and Google, nor am I happy with the FCC's recent turn; I'm just aware that we have other options, and they'll push forward, like they did before, when they become the most efficient ways to share information and services.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Twenty-odd years ago, I had a button that read:
Reading the net is like drinking from a firehose.It hasn't gotten less true over time, and if I didn't know the quote was 20+ years old, I'd've thought it was created for tumblr.
Posting on the net is like shouting at people on a roller coaster.
Archiving the net is like washing toilet paper.
My hope for surviving the waves of meaningless drivel that are the majority of the internet: We have better hardware now. We have better software now. We have storage and exchange capacities that were literally not imagined twenty years ago - not that nobody thought numbers went that high, but that nobody had any idea how they would work if everyone had access to them.
All we need for the Hacker Revolution to explode into diverse, creative, countercultural action is... less reliance on corporate-run monopolistic parts of the internet. And that's not likely to happen while it's easy. I'm not advocating the end of Amazon and Google, nor am I happy with the FCC's recent turn; I'm just aware that we have other options, and they'll push forward, like they did before, when they become the most efficient ways to share information and services.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:46 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
The fact that he thinks LinkedIn has ruined anything makes me doubt everything else. LinkedIn is useless, has zero impact, and can thus not have ruined anything at all.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:52 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:52 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Joakim, would you like to join my professional network?
posted by coffee and minarets at 9:57 AM on October 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by coffee and minarets at 9:57 AM on October 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Update: coffee and minarets and Joakim Ziegler are now in the same professional network.
posted by Bob Regular at 10:00 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by Bob Regular at 10:00 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
And coffee and minarets immediately sent Joakim a long winded pitch for something he didn't need via LI messaging.
Joakim deleted it and blocked coffee and minaret.
posted by COD at 10:03 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Joakim deleted it and blocked coffee and minaret.
posted by COD at 10:03 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
LinkedIn is useless, has zero impact,
Uh, I got my last two jobs via LinkedIn.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:04 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Uh, I got my last two jobs via LinkedIn.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:04 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
...TBH, though, LinkedIn does seem like a bunch of people I don't really know reposting articles from Forbes.com.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
posted by jeff-o-matic at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2017 [13 favorites]
Eh, it's a personal ramblerant, not some academic or even journalistic piece. I don't think accuracy is as central to it as just how the author feels. Like, I could really go to town on it for the "short stories" bit, but what would be the point of that?
Anyway, like I've mentioned before, the disappearance of old-style Internet Stuff isn't a technological-affordance thing, it's a cultural-norm thing. And IMO that's much harder to change/mitigate than a technological or even financial lack.
posted by inconstant at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Anyway, like I've mentioned before, the disappearance of old-style Internet Stuff isn't a technological-affordance thing, it's a cultural-norm thing. And IMO that's much harder to change/mitigate than a technological or even financial lack.
posted by inconstant at 10:06 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Joakim Ziegler: "LinkedIn is useless, has zero impact, and can thus not have ruined anything at all."
Linkedin may not be important in your culture, but there are places where it is extremely important.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:07 AM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Linkedin may not be important in your culture, but there are places where it is extremely important.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:07 AM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
We're too old, too busy, and real life has turned out to be less shitty than online, once all the normies started having the internet in their pocket
Eh, people have been saying some variant of this since the days you couldn’t get online without a PhD or an army commission. September has always been Eternal to somebody.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:14 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Eh, people have been saying some variant of this since the days you couldn’t get online without a PhD or an army commission. September has always been Eternal to somebody.
posted by Itaxpica at 10:14 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Linkedin may not be important in your culture, but there are places where it is extremely important.
And there the great old ones dwell
posted by dng at 10:22 AM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
And there the great old ones dwell
posted by dng at 10:22 AM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
if the Angel of Death LinkedIn has passed over you, feel grateful
it is The Worst, because it is useless, it's like Business Insider and Facebook had a terrible baby, and yet if you are not on there everyone assumes that something is somehow wrong with you
posted by halation at 10:25 AM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
it is The Worst, because it is useless, it's like Business Insider and Facebook had a terrible baby, and yet if you are not on there everyone assumes that something is somehow wrong with you
posted by halation at 10:25 AM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
And there the great old ones dwell.
"Shub-Niggurath would like to join your network."
I would totally read that story.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:26 AM on October 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
"Shub-Niggurath would like to join your network."
I would totally read that story.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:26 AM on October 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
All we need for the Hacker Revolution to explode into diverse, creative, countercultural action is...
to step away from your keyboard. the whole idea of a "counterculture" was just a way to pretend that the people, who looked at the Vietnam War and the establishment that fed it and said that this was all insane and had to change, weren't totally crushed by both Nixon and the Democratic party.
The old hippies of the 'Whole Earth Catalog' were just the dregs who didn't have the heart to kill themselves, by drugs or other means, after that defeat.
posted by I hate nature. at 10:26 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
to step away from your keyboard. the whole idea of a "counterculture" was just a way to pretend that the people, who looked at the Vietnam War and the establishment that fed it and said that this was all insane and had to change, weren't totally crushed by both Nixon and the Democratic party.
The old hippies of the 'Whole Earth Catalog' were just the dregs who didn't have the heart to kill themselves, by drugs or other means, after that defeat.
posted by I hate nature. at 10:26 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn! Ph'nglui mglw'nfah Cthulhu InMail wgah'nagl fhtagn!
posted by halation at 10:30 AM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by halation at 10:30 AM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
it is The Worst, because it is useless, it's like Business Insider and Facebook had a terrible baby, and yet if you are not on there everyone assumes that something is somehow wrong with you
You know who uses LinkedIn almost to the exclusion of everything else? Hiring managers, sadly. If you're off LinkedIn, you're invisible to them.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
You know who uses LinkedIn almost to the exclusion of everything else? Hiring managers, sadly. If you're off LinkedIn, you're invisible to them.
posted by tobascodagama at 10:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [6 favorites]
Linkedin may not be important in your culture, but there are places where it is extremely important.
And there the great old ones dwell
And there the great old ones dwell
Where the slime liveposted by Wolfdog at 10:44 AM on October 26, 2017
(They are the lowest forms of life)
Where the slime breed
(They make a new one too corrupted...)
The old hippies of the 'Whole Earth Catalog' were just the dregs who didn't have the heart to kill themselves, by drugs or other means, after that defeat.
The WEC was started by people in their 20s at the apex of the 1960s counterculture, and many of them (most notably Stewart Brand) went on to be key players in developing the management thinking and culture of Silicon Valley, and in founding early online communities. Fred Turner's book From Counterculture to Cyberculture: Stewart Brand, the Whole Earth Network, and the Rise of Digital Utopianism covers this in detail.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:44 AM on October 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
The WEC was started by people in their 20s at the apex of the 1960s counterculture, and many of them (most notably Stewart Brand) went on to be key players in developing the management thinking and culture of Silicon Valley, and in founding early online communities. Fred Turner's book From Counterculture to Cyberculture: Stewart Brand, the Whole Earth Network, and the Rise of Digital Utopianism covers this in detail.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:44 AM on October 26, 2017 [8 favorites]
I see that this was by another writer, not Ford, but let us still admire the glory that was the emergency wardrobe alert.
posted by thelonius at 10:46 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 10:46 AM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
I keep looking for the replacements for the countercultures of the BBS era/early internet,
You mean the old, pretty much all-white, all-male internet?
I mean, there are counterculture groups on the internet right now. I'm a member of a few. But they aren't the same type of communities as the BBSs, and they have to be a little cautious, because they can be vulnerable to attack from guys with pretty similar demographics as the old BBS users.
Seriously, while the article writer didn't really go there, a lot of the comments here are getting toward the same sort of weaponized nostalgia that the Rabid Puppies promote: "Weren't the good old days so much better? Before, you know, Those People showed up?"
posted by happyroach at 11:02 AM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
You mean the old, pretty much all-white, all-male internet?
I mean, there are counterculture groups on the internet right now. I'm a member of a few. But they aren't the same type of communities as the BBSs, and they have to be a little cautious, because they can be vulnerable to attack from guys with pretty similar demographics as the old BBS users.
Seriously, while the article writer didn't really go there, a lot of the comments here are getting toward the same sort of weaponized nostalgia that the Rabid Puppies promote: "Weren't the good old days so much better? Before, you know, Those People showed up?"
posted by happyroach at 11:02 AM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
if you are not on there [LinkedIn] everyone assumes that something is somehow wrong with you
Oh God. I made an account at least 12 years ago, when my boss got one and sent us all invites. I didn't want to risk insulting him by blowing it off. Eventually I made an inbox rule to delete all emails from LinkedIn, because they send 2 or 3 a day (people are looking at your profile! three contacts have updated their status!). There was a period when I did, out of some weird sense of obligation, start adding contacts or friends or whatever they are called there, but that only lasted a month or two. I have a job, and I intend to ride my desk into the sunset. I basically have no ambition, professionally, beyond not getting fired.
So I forgot about LinkedIn for years, and then checked in one day, for the hell of it. People from high school and college have been sending me messages, perhaps because they could not find me on Facebook. It's a job site! I don't want to use it for social networking. I just want to be left alone. But people aren't OK with that anymore. I'm actually getting pretty close to just caving in and making a Facebook account, even though I don't want one. I liked it when you could go online when you wanted to and stay offline when you wanted to and no one knew or cared which you were doing. There are weird, isolated cranks in the world! I am one of them! Deal with it, people.
posted by thelonius at 11:05 AM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
Oh God. I made an account at least 12 years ago, when my boss got one and sent us all invites. I didn't want to risk insulting him by blowing it off. Eventually I made an inbox rule to delete all emails from LinkedIn, because they send 2 or 3 a day (people are looking at your profile! three contacts have updated their status!). There was a period when I did, out of some weird sense of obligation, start adding contacts or friends or whatever they are called there, but that only lasted a month or two. I have a job, and I intend to ride my desk into the sunset. I basically have no ambition, professionally, beyond not getting fired.
So I forgot about LinkedIn for years, and then checked in one day, for the hell of it. People from high school and college have been sending me messages, perhaps because they could not find me on Facebook. It's a job site! I don't want to use it for social networking. I just want to be left alone. But people aren't OK with that anymore. I'm actually getting pretty close to just caving in and making a Facebook account, even though I don't want one. I liked it when you could go online when you wanted to and stay offline when you wanted to and no one knew or cared which you were doing. There are weird, isolated cranks in the world! I am one of them! Deal with it, people.
posted by thelonius at 11:05 AM on October 26, 2017 [7 favorites]
The second-to-most recent post on ftrain was made on the eve of Obama's second term in office.
For perspective.
posted by ardgedee at 11:13 AM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
For perspective.
posted by ardgedee at 11:13 AM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've heard that a common theme emerged from communes in the 1960s, in that a control freak would always end up running things and ruining it. How is the current Internet any different?
posted by MikeWarot at 11:19 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by MikeWarot at 11:19 AM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
You mean the old, pretty much all-white, all-male internet?
No, but don't let that stop you.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
No, but don't let that stop you.
posted by ryanshepard at 11:24 AM on October 26, 2017 [16 favorites]
LinkedIn is useless
LinkedIn is extremely useful in combination with the Queen's Bench court database for giving additional context to local news stories.
Everyone needs a hobby.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
LinkedIn is extremely useful in combination with the Queen's Bench court database for giving additional context to local news stories.
Everyone needs a hobby.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:32 AM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
I'm torn on this one — on one hand, I kinda agree with the author, and I'm frustrated with the modern Internet, and I long sometimes to go back to the Web 1.0 'net, with its barriers to entry and general camaraderie and community spirit and overall friendliness (well, Usenet flamewars excepted, I suppose).
On the other hand, I have a suspicion that even if you just filtered out the modern Internet and only looked at the part of it that's still Web 1.0-y — that if you looked only at the personal websites and obsessive I'm-an-expert-in-this-thing projects and non-shitty forums — that there's actually more there there than there was in 1998 or 2001 or whenever your personal halcyon moment was. And we also have a lot more diversity and interesting non-white-dude perspectives and fascinating international stuff going on than we did back then, which I think I'd miss pretty quickly if I could suddenly connect via an Ethernet-based wormhole to the Internet of the late 20th century from my desk today.
It's sort of like TV. Sometimes it's easy to have 1200 channels and think to yourself "this is all garbage, it was better back when there were only 3 networks", forgetting that most of what was on those 3 networks was garbage too, and there's a hell of a lot more good TV on now, in absolute numbers, you just need to watch the right channels and ignore the garbage.
But yeah... when there stopped being an "Internet culture" that was distinct from just "culture", we definitely lost something, and I don't know exactly how to get that back. But the people — most of them, anyway — are all still here, the potential still exists, and the technology ought to be there to build something with that "Internet culture" inside the actual, no-longer-culturally-distinct Internet, if we could identify and agree on exactly what was so good about that culture. But good luck getting agreement on that. It had the seeds of its own destruction—misogyny, dudebro dick-measuring-contests, poorly-considered Libertarianism, a complete lack of self-reflection on mixed benefits and hazards of 'free speech' as an ethos, etc.—in it from the beginning, I think.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:36 AM on October 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
On the other hand, I have a suspicion that even if you just filtered out the modern Internet and only looked at the part of it that's still Web 1.0-y — that if you looked only at the personal websites and obsessive I'm-an-expert-in-this-thing projects and non-shitty forums — that there's actually more there there than there was in 1998 or 2001 or whenever your personal halcyon moment was. And we also have a lot more diversity and interesting non-white-dude perspectives and fascinating international stuff going on than we did back then, which I think I'd miss pretty quickly if I could suddenly connect via an Ethernet-based wormhole to the Internet of the late 20th century from my desk today.
It's sort of like TV. Sometimes it's easy to have 1200 channels and think to yourself "this is all garbage, it was better back when there were only 3 networks", forgetting that most of what was on those 3 networks was garbage too, and there's a hell of a lot more good TV on now, in absolute numbers, you just need to watch the right channels and ignore the garbage.
But yeah... when there stopped being an "Internet culture" that was distinct from just "culture", we definitely lost something, and I don't know exactly how to get that back. But the people — most of them, anyway — are all still here, the potential still exists, and the technology ought to be there to build something with that "Internet culture" inside the actual, no-longer-culturally-distinct Internet, if we could identify and agree on exactly what was so good about that culture. But good luck getting agreement on that. It had the seeds of its own destruction—misogyny, dudebro dick-measuring-contests, poorly-considered Libertarianism, a complete lack of self-reflection on mixed benefits and hazards of 'free speech' as an ethos, etc.—in it from the beginning, I think.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:36 AM on October 26, 2017 [12 favorites]
I am glad for this post just because it reminded me to dig up this ftrain favorite.
posted by JanetLand at 1:34 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
posted by JanetLand at 1:34 PM on October 26, 2017 [2 favorites]
Linkedin may not be important in your culture, but there are places where it is extremely important.
Viz: the caption space in every New Yorker cartoon ever.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:14 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Viz: the caption space in every New Yorker cartoon ever.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:14 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
I think the pull quote does this piece a disservice by making it look like a bland Jeremiad, but it's actually a nice bit of writing in the 'dispirited sigh' genre of quasi confessional.
posted by Sebmojo at 2:18 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by Sebmojo at 2:18 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I've heard that a common theme emerged from communes in the 1960s, in that a control freak would always end up running things and ruining it. How is the current Internet any different?
The story of most every organization ever. The loudest, most intense bully who takes over does not give a shit about the reason for the organizations existence.
posted by bongo_x at 2:26 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The story of most every organization ever. The loudest, most intense bully who takes over does not give a shit about the reason for the organizations existence.
posted by bongo_x at 2:26 PM on October 26, 2017 [3 favorites]
The story of most every organization ever. The loudest, most intense bully who takes over does not give a shit about the reason for the organizations existence.
Doesn't that sound like a comment one would expect over in the politics thread? 8-(
posted by MikeWarot at 2:53 PM on October 26, 2017
Doesn't that sound like a comment one would expect over in the politics thread? 8-(
posted by MikeWarot at 2:53 PM on October 26, 2017
I, just last week, archived off a site I've had since 1995. According to some now defunct tech mag, it was the 500th website on the www that was not a corporation. I haven't posted there in a couple of years. If it weren't for the fact that I've had the same email address for that long, I'd probably just close it up, but I don't want the domain to fall into other's hands.
But yeah, as one of the technopagans that thought we would revolutionise information, and that a well informed populace would rise and shake off the shackles of imperialist capitalism...we were wrong. So wrong.
I never imagined that a walled garden like Facebook would subsume real free information flow. Because I'm an idiot and forgot that humans are fearful and want to be coddled. They want pablum spoonfed to them. They want to coo at cat pictures and get toilet paper delivered on subscription.
They do not want to engage in discussions about infosec, about totalitarianism of data flow, about the risks of living your life open to corporate mining. They simply do not care.
There was an information revolution. I was there. Hell, a lot of you were there. And we lost, like most revolutionaries, to the people who brought money instead of hope.
The internet is just another channel to separate people from capital.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:49 PM on October 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
But yeah, as one of the technopagans that thought we would revolutionise information, and that a well informed populace would rise and shake off the shackles of imperialist capitalism...we were wrong. So wrong.
I never imagined that a walled garden like Facebook would subsume real free information flow. Because I'm an idiot and forgot that humans are fearful and want to be coddled. They want pablum spoonfed to them. They want to coo at cat pictures and get toilet paper delivered on subscription.
They do not want to engage in discussions about infosec, about totalitarianism of data flow, about the risks of living your life open to corporate mining. They simply do not care.
There was an information revolution. I was there. Hell, a lot of you were there. And we lost, like most revolutionaries, to the people who brought money instead of hope.
The internet is just another channel to separate people from capital.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:49 PM on October 26, 2017 [22 favorites]
I've heard that a common theme emerged from communes in the 1960s, in that a control freak would always end up running things and ruining it.
Oh, it was worse than that, and I'm pretty sure that lots of people here will find what I'm about to say mildly insulting (at best): the common theme that emerged from communes, "tribes", affine groups, whatever, from the 60's was that some (but enough) of the formerly bullied got to taste what it felt like to bully, and liked it. The internet web pipes? To me, at least, same difference.
I hope to mitigate some heat towards myself by saying that I am including a vast ungodly huge number of what you guys like to call cis white males (like, for instance, me) in the ruiners.
("Them? Oh, they ruin everything!" #obligatorysmileyface).
posted by Chitownfats at 4:20 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
Oh, it was worse than that, and I'm pretty sure that lots of people here will find what I'm about to say mildly insulting (at best): the common theme that emerged from communes, "tribes", affine groups, whatever, from the 60's was that some (but enough) of the formerly bullied got to taste what it felt like to bully, and liked it. The internet web pipes? To me, at least, same difference.
I hope to mitigate some heat towards myself by saying that I am including a vast ungodly huge number of what you guys like to call cis white males (like, for instance, me) in the ruiners.
("Them? Oh, they ruin everything!" #obligatorysmileyface).
posted by Chitownfats at 4:20 PM on October 26, 2017 [5 favorites]
One of the most useful bits I picked up from anarcho-liberal conversations in coffeehouses was, "Any proposed solution that relies on the enlightenment of the masses is doomed to failure."
Because I'm an idiot and forgot that humans are fearful and want to be coddled.
Well, some, yeah. But mostly, they want to not have to do extra work on top of their jobs and families and whatever hobbies are dear to them. For those of us whose dear hobbies included "learn new info-seeking methodologies" and "create and use archives of obscure information," the internet isn't work; it's joyful play. For almost everyone else, it was bizarre technology with a lot of rules they didn't understand and didn't want to - which made them ripe for some company to step in and say, "we'll find the good stuff for you; just hand us enough info that we can figure out what you want to see."
I am counting on the PirateBox and Dead Drops and weird Raspberry Pi applications people to keep alive the options, if not the culture, that allowed for the info revolution, so that when the monopolies get oppressive enough (sigh), we have the tools to push for real change.
But the end solution is never going to be, "and then everyone is attentive, considerate, and decent to each other because they want to be good people."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
Because I'm an idiot and forgot that humans are fearful and want to be coddled.
Well, some, yeah. But mostly, they want to not have to do extra work on top of their jobs and families and whatever hobbies are dear to them. For those of us whose dear hobbies included "learn new info-seeking methodologies" and "create and use archives of obscure information," the internet isn't work; it's joyful play. For almost everyone else, it was bizarre technology with a lot of rules they didn't understand and didn't want to - which made them ripe for some company to step in and say, "we'll find the good stuff for you; just hand us enough info that we can figure out what you want to see."
I am counting on the PirateBox and Dead Drops and weird Raspberry Pi applications people to keep alive the options, if not the culture, that allowed for the info revolution, so that when the monopolies get oppressive enough (sigh), we have the tools to push for real change.
But the end solution is never going to be, "and then everyone is attentive, considerate, and decent to each other because they want to be good people."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [11 favorites]
But yeah, as one of the technopagans that thought we would revolutionise information, and that a well informed populace would rise and shake off the shackles of imperialist capitalism...we were wrong. So wrong.
Speaking as one dumb kid who would probably be carrying a tiki-torch now if it weren't for the access to information that the early net provided, you weren't totally wrong.
Thanks ♥
posted by ragtag at 4:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
Speaking as one dumb kid who would probably be carrying a tiki-torch now if it weren't for the access to information that the early net provided, you weren't totally wrong.
Thanks ♥
posted by ragtag at 4:36 PM on October 26, 2017 [9 favorites]
general camaraderie and community spirit and overall friendliness
Huh. Maybe you didn't know it that well? Usenet flamewars were not some random exception to the rule. That undercurrent lived before the inet, lived at the start of the inet, and lives now. I mean, look at us! :-) :-)
some (but enough) of the formerly bullied got to taste what it felt like to bully, and liked it.
Yup, same old story.
As far as I remember, the good old days were full of pretentious digital plumbers & resentful New Yorker rejects . It was pablum for a different sort. There was never a September, because a single year makes no difference to anyone at all.
The range is so much bigger, and things are so much better now... it just makes me want to scream when I see people write this shit about "social media" being the end of civilization. It seems like they are complaining alternately about getting old (duh), humans being humans (duh duh), or that most people do not share their interests (duh, duh, duh). Narcissistic twaddle.
posted by smidgen at 9:06 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I think it's wonderful that so many people have access to the internet now! But also, the internet is now run by a few massive corporations, owned by unimaginably rich white dudes with no clue about the world. So that's a problem.
posted by latkes at 10:52 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
posted by latkes at 10:52 PM on October 26, 2017 [4 favorites]
I'm not saying my experience was necessarily universal, or that someone else's isn't valid, but I found the 'net of the early/mid 90s to be pretty friendly. IRC and Usenet definitely could get shouty, but it always seemed to me (and still does, in those places) that it was largely a function of how you engaged people.
And compared to the BBS world, which is where I came to the Internet from, there was this sense of moving up into the big league. On the popular local freebie BBS you could maybe end up in a discussion with someone from the other side of the state, or maybe someone at one of the big area employers; on the early Internet you could ask (on Usenet) some silly hypothetical technical question and get responses back from people with really swank addresses at dec.com or dg.com or from some university on the other side of the country. It was a hell of a rush,
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:56 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
And compared to the BBS world, which is where I came to the Internet from, there was this sense of moving up into the big league. On the popular local freebie BBS you could maybe end up in a discussion with someone from the other side of the state, or maybe someone at one of the big area employers; on the early Internet you could ask (on Usenet) some silly hypothetical technical question and get responses back from people with really swank addresses at dec.com or dg.com or from some university on the other side of the country. It was a hell of a rush,
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:56 PM on October 26, 2017 [1 favorite]
Isn't part of that early sometimes warm feeling about the internet likely tied to those using it sharing at least some reasonably large similarities in perspective? I mean the very act of engaging each other online in the early days suggested certain like interests that were diluted and/or altered towards other "likenesses" when the wider public joined in and identities could be attached to an ever widening variety of interests instead of just being online itself as a defining one.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:21 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by gusottertrout at 12:21 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
and things are so much better now...
Thank you internet, for giving me [citation required] to use here
posted by bonaldi at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2017
Thank you internet, for giving me [citation required] to use here
posted by bonaldi at 7:05 AM on October 27, 2017
Maybe you didn't know it that well? Usenet flamewars were not some random exception to the rule.
Yeah, but even the most vicious flamewars were all in fun, like, 98% of the time. Sure, you needed a thick skin to be there, but people were pretty friendly if you could get past that. The sense was that it was just words on a page so it didn't matter that much. (Which, I agree, isn't really going to cut it these days, but it was good for what it was at the time.)
posted by suetanvil at 7:20 AM on October 27, 2017
Yeah, but even the most vicious flamewars were all in fun, like, 98% of the time. Sure, you needed a thick skin to be there, but people were pretty friendly if you could get past that. The sense was that it was just words on a page so it didn't matter that much. (Which, I agree, isn't really going to cut it these days, but it was good for what it was at the time.)
posted by suetanvil at 7:20 AM on October 27, 2017
Also: I've found Mastadon to be full of wierdos, if you're looking for a place to escape the main-stream-mediazation of the modern Internet. I've been following various hacker types and reading about stuff that makes my head spin.
posted by suetanvil at 7:22 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by suetanvil at 7:22 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I want to coo at cat pictures
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 8:40 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 8:40 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I never imagined that a walled garden like Facebook would subsume real free information flow. Because I'm an idiot and forgot that humans are fearful and want to be coddled. They want pablum spoonfed to them. They want to coo at cat pictures and get toilet paper delivered on subscription.Stormfront was founded in 1995. I first got online in 1993, and made my first website about 1994-1995 too, my first personal domain was registered in January 1996 (which was a pain to do from Norway, involving cashier's checks and whatnot).
They do not want to engage in discussions about infosec, about totalitarianism of data flow, about the risks of living your life open to corporate mining. They simply do not care.
It was never a utopia, people were never universally enlightened on the Internet. It had subcultures and tribes back then too, and some of them were thoroughly unpleasant, prejudiced, and/or totally idiotic.
You can blame a lot of stuff on Facebook, but this is not their fault.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 9:07 AM on October 27, 2017 [6 favorites]
Yeah, but even the most vicious flamewars were all in fun, like, 98% of the time.
... if you were white and well-educated. They shifted from "playful joking among peers" to "crush the peon" if you tried to insist that a marginalized identity brought a useful different perspective, and the viciousness got a sharper edge with people who weren't fluent in academic English. And Godwin's Law meant internet culture rolled its eyes at the idea that this-or-that event or philosophy could lead to a totalitarian racist regime.
I suspect that much of the awareness of the early 'net as a good place to be, was based on the fact that the majority of participants were from mutually-compatible backgrounds. It was heavy on academics and tech scientists, and also had people without a direct connection to either field but who would've felt comfortable there.
I don't know how much of the changes are real, and how much are just that "we" don't run the internet anymore. I dislike and distrust the corporate ownership of much of the net, but I don't now that hackergeeks were ever going to provide people a place to post endless cat videos, for which there's obviously plenty of demand.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:16 AM on October 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
... if you were white and well-educated. They shifted from "playful joking among peers" to "crush the peon" if you tried to insist that a marginalized identity brought a useful different perspective, and the viciousness got a sharper edge with people who weren't fluent in academic English. And Godwin's Law meant internet culture rolled its eyes at the idea that this-or-that event or philosophy could lead to a totalitarian racist regime.
I suspect that much of the awareness of the early 'net as a good place to be, was based on the fact that the majority of participants were from mutually-compatible backgrounds. It was heavy on academics and tech scientists, and also had people without a direct connection to either field but who would've felt comfortable there.
I don't know how much of the changes are real, and how much are just that "we" don't run the internet anymore. I dislike and distrust the corporate ownership of much of the net, but I don't now that hackergeeks were ever going to provide people a place to post endless cat videos, for which there's obviously plenty of demand.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:16 AM on October 27, 2017 [8 favorites]
The biggest change with the Eternal September was that it really solidified the internet as a consumer product. Before AOL came online, people had to figure it out on their own. You didn't have to somehow pre-know how to do things, but you did have to put a little effort into learning, so users had more a sense of ownership.
Once the AOL influx started, though, they didn't know how things worked and didn't bother to learn, because they were consumers who had purchased a product. When they got spam, they'd just delete it rather than doing anything to stop it. When they had an issue with someone, they'd tattle on them to AOL, because they didn't understand how the internet worked and didn't bother to try, because the internet was just another consumer product they'd purchased and they expected the people who sold it to them to maintain it.
It was never really super-hard to understand the basics of how the internet works. It just took a little bit of effort that people didn't feel like they should have to expend on a consumer product.
And the really funny thing is that the internet is STILL not that hard, but corporate interests have obfuscated things so naive users assume their products are necessary.
Most internet traffic now is coming from walled garden environments on mobile devices, which all have this shallow layer of "user friendliness" that masks ridiculous amounts of totally unnecessary fuckery that serves no good purpose for users.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:18 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Once the AOL influx started, though, they didn't know how things worked and didn't bother to learn, because they were consumers who had purchased a product. When they got spam, they'd just delete it rather than doing anything to stop it. When they had an issue with someone, they'd tattle on them to AOL, because they didn't understand how the internet worked and didn't bother to try, because the internet was just another consumer product they'd purchased and they expected the people who sold it to them to maintain it.
It was never really super-hard to understand the basics of how the internet works. It just took a little bit of effort that people didn't feel like they should have to expend on a consumer product.
And the really funny thing is that the internet is STILL not that hard, but corporate interests have obfuscated things so naive users assume their products are necessary.
Most internet traffic now is coming from walled garden environments on mobile devices, which all have this shallow layer of "user friendliness" that masks ridiculous amounts of totally unnecessary fuckery that serves no good purpose for users.
posted by ernielundquist at 9:18 AM on October 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
I've always felt guilty for not learning to code, not learning to hack, not learning Linux when it was new and shiny. Still feels like I'm caving to The Man by using Windows.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:30 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:30 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I tried Linux when it was new and shiny and spent about a month just getting it to READ my data hard drive with all my important shit on it. Why? Because it was formatted NTFS, and I didn't have the money to purchase another big hard drive to back it all up onto, wipe the original, and change the formatting. So instead, I had to search for a super, super Alpha version of an NTFS driver that at least let me read the files, but I was completely blocked from writing any files to the drive. I switched back to Windows three months later when I realized I had spent three months doing nothing at all "fun" on my computer and was crunching code that I couldn't fucking stand and didn't want to do in my spare time.
Linux, as it is now, is actually functionally usable and drivers exist for pretty much every important thing already. If anything, now is the time to learn it, because it's finally accessible enough to use easily and learn easily. I find its easier to learn anything when you can fix a mistake easily. Early Linux, fixing a mistake could take days, and you might not know what the mistake was to begin with. Now, it's not so much of a problem, and it's usually pretty straightforward for a fix.
And therein is one of the reasons why, for all the nostalgia for the old internet, the modern internet is just better. Back when I first tried Redhat in 2002, it was a nightmare to get functioning and feel like I was doing the things I wanted to do on my computer (listen to mp3s, watch videos, etc). Also, when I went looking for solutions, there wasn't a github or thousands of forums dedicated to solving these problems.
While the sheer number of people online has absolutely increased the noise to signal ratio, it has also allowed more expertise to congregate and disseminate useful information.
posted by deadaluspark at 11:36 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Linux, as it is now, is actually functionally usable and drivers exist for pretty much every important thing already. If anything, now is the time to learn it, because it's finally accessible enough to use easily and learn easily. I find its easier to learn anything when you can fix a mistake easily. Early Linux, fixing a mistake could take days, and you might not know what the mistake was to begin with. Now, it's not so much of a problem, and it's usually pretty straightforward for a fix.
And therein is one of the reasons why, for all the nostalgia for the old internet, the modern internet is just better. Back when I first tried Redhat in 2002, it was a nightmare to get functioning and feel like I was doing the things I wanted to do on my computer (listen to mp3s, watch videos, etc). Also, when I went looking for solutions, there wasn't a github or thousands of forums dedicated to solving these problems.
While the sheer number of people online has absolutely increased the noise to signal ratio, it has also allowed more expertise to congregate and disseminate useful information.
posted by deadaluspark at 11:36 AM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
I've always felt guilty for not learning to code, not learning to hack, not learning Linux when it was new and shiny. Still feels like I'm caving to The Man by using Windows.
I sort of know how you feel, but I went through that phase -- I even wrote drivers (for NetBSD, not Linux mind you), and while Windows & MacOS have issues, actual hassle-free free OS's on the desktop are perpetually as far away as human-level AI performance. After a while, you really don't want to live in a world with a deRaadt or Stallman approved laptop awkwardly balanced on your face forever.
I still do check in periodically though -- but usually the drill is: boot up ubuntu, find that it kind of looks nice, but doesn't work or has janky settings for your audio or wireless hardware. "Use" for one month, then have it crash inexplicably because the hackers that work on the OS have changed the driver interfaces yet again. Wipe and install windows, and play the video games and use the software you really wanted to use in the first place. :-)
posted by smidgen at 12:06 PM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
I sort of know how you feel, but I went through that phase -- I even wrote drivers (for NetBSD, not Linux mind you), and while Windows & MacOS have issues, actual hassle-free free OS's on the desktop are perpetually as far away as human-level AI performance. After a while, you really don't want to live in a world with a deRaadt or Stallman approved laptop awkwardly balanced on your face forever.
I still do check in periodically though -- but usually the drill is: boot up ubuntu, find that it kind of looks nice, but doesn't work or has janky settings for your audio or wireless hardware. "Use" for one month, then have it crash inexplicably because the hackers that work on the OS have changed the driver interfaces yet again. Wipe and install windows, and play the video games and use the software you really wanted to use in the first place. :-)
posted by smidgen at 12:06 PM on October 27, 2017 [2 favorites]
Just to be clear: this is just on the desktop. As far as server goes, linux is far, far superior to non-free alternatives. It's all the little details and user-focused decisions necessary to get a real turnkey desktop solution that's hard (or at least, alien, to OS hackers). Servers are easy comparatively, because you can emulate whatever linux needs in a vm, or you can buy a machine tailor made.
posted by smidgen at 12:10 PM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by smidgen at 12:10 PM on October 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
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posted by Annika Cicada at 8:56 AM on October 26, 2017 [8 favorites]