the first cut won't hurt at all
November 2, 2017 11:29 AM   Subscribe

Day 287: Cut, Cut, Cut. [this is your U.S. politics thread]

Republicans have released their tax plan (NYT). Amber Phillips (WaPo) looks at the political atmosphere, Heather Long (WaPo) crunches the numbers to declare winners and losers, and the WSJ is running a liveblog of sorts.

It has been 41 days since Hurricane Maria devastated an island of over 3.4 million American citizens.


It typically looks a bit bad

When one of the staffers you had
Pursued stolen email
Supplied by a female
Who claimed a relation to Vlad.
- @Limericking
posted by Anonymous (2565 comments total)
 
Countless mobile phones quiver with relief.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:33 AM on November 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


Can we make all the #resistance tweeters write 100 times on a chalk board that 'vlad' is not the correct diminutive for Vladimir?
posted by Space Coyote at 11:34 AM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


Some numbers on the tax plan from CRFB (a detailed table inside)
Of the $1.5 trillion cost, roughly $1 trillion comes from business tax cuts. Individual tax cuts make up another $300 billion, and the ultimate repeal of the estate tax accounts for the remaining $200 billion.

Within the business cuts, the legislation would reduce the corporate tax rate from 35 to 20 percent ($1.5 trillion), allow companies to fully deduct the cost of business investments in the year they are made through 2022 ($25 billion), and limit the top rate on certain pass-through business income paid on the individual side to 25 percent ($448 billion). These provisions are partially offset by tax base-broadening provisions, including reducing the limit on interest deductions ($172 billion), eliminating the domestic production activities deduction ($95 billion), limiting carryover of net operating losses ($156 billion), eliminating the orphan drug tax credit ($54 billion), and eliminating private activity bonds ($39 billion). The business tax reform plan also includes a number of international changes which generate modest positive revenue, a one-time tax on foreign-held earnings of U.S. corporations ($223 billion), and a number of smaller provisions.

On the individual side, the plan would consolidate individual income tax rates to four brackets of 12, 25, 35, and 39.6 percent ($1.1 trillion) and repeal the Alternative Minimum Tax, or AMT ($696 billion). To pay for these changes, it would repeal the state and local income and sales tax deductions, limit the property tax deduction, limit the mortgage interest deduction and reform or repeal various other itemized deductions ($1.3 trillion). The legislation would also reform higher education benefits ($65 billion) and repeal or reform a number of smaller tax breaks. Finally, the legislation would repeal the personal exemption in favor of a larger standard deduction, a larger child tax credit, and a new $300 per person tax credit; these provisions would be roughly neutral when taken together, though the $300 per person credit would expire after 5 years and continuing it would increase costs.

The proposal would also roughly double the exemption for the estate tax immediately and ultimately repeal it starting in 2024 ($172 billion).
So that's a net tax cut for individuals of $300B ($3.3T in individual tax cuts, but $3.0T in individual tax increases), a net $1T cut for businesses, and then another $172T from cutting the estate tax (which applies only to estates worth more than $5.34 million, double that for a married couple). And it increases the deficit by $1.5T, even using some stupid gimmicks like sunsetting certain provisions after five years. Repealing the estate tax alone means that a large portion of the cuts will go to millionaires.
posted by zachlipton at 11:35 AM on November 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


I hope we get more indictments in this thread, that was a good time.
posted by Andrhia at 11:35 AM on November 2, 2017 [134 favorites]


Toupee Trump and his cut! cut! cut! Plan DOES NOTHING and is BAD POLICY! Sad! Ludicrous! This grate country deserves better!
posted by Annika Cicada at 11:35 AM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


***For all of your pre-emptive mental health needs: Undertale video game original soundtrack. Have a listen. Feel free to take a deep & calming breath to sooth your worries. ***
posted by Fizz at 11:37 AM on November 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


(citing from the previous thread)
More tax bill gems:
-eliminates the deduction for teachers who buy supplies out of pocket (currently capped at $250)


Pardon me. I have to find every Republican I know and scream directly in their faces until one of us dies.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:39 AM on November 2, 2017 [168 favorites]


This is interesting.

@KenDilanianNBC: Sessions now recalls that he nixed proposal for Trump-Putin meeting, appearing to contradict his previous accounts, sources tell NBC News

Sen. Franken knew exactly what he was doing on January 10th:
SEN. AL FRANKEN: "If there was any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this (2016) campaign, what would you do?," the Minnesota Democrat asked.

SESSIONS: "I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians."
posted by zachlipton at 11:39 AM on November 2, 2017 [109 favorites]


Mod note: PLEASE NOTE: shit has been kinda crazy and breakneck this week, and that's led to a lot more chatter than is really ideal for these threads. Please try to refocus on adding substantive stuff about what's going on to the thread, not so much on getting in scraps with each other or riffing endlessly during moments when nothing's happening.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:43 AM on November 2, 2017 [98 favorites]


Here is a reminder to please be nice to everyone. We’re all feeling very fragile these days.
posted by skycrashesdown at 11:45 AM on November 2, 2017 [47 favorites]


Loony leftist local field report, the Lower Manhattan DSA Halloween fundraiser party raised more than 1000$ for the brand new chapter - NYC Medicare For All canvassing training Nov. 5th - Dec 1st, Write holiday letters for people behind bars - REMEMBER TO VOTE IN YOUR LOCAL ELECTIONS -Manhattanites Write In Marc Fliedner for DA to say Bye to Cy Vance - we got a new logo
posted by The Whelk at 11:45 AM on November 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


Any of you taxy types know how this new tax plan will affect Americans living overseas? Asking for a me.
posted by Optamystic at 11:46 AM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Also asking for a friend who is me, I have been unable to confirm or deny if head of household filing status is still in the new plan, has anyone seen mention of it?
posted by Flannery Culp at 12:01 PM on November 2, 2017


Friendly reminder: Election Day is next Tuesday, November 7th. And it's not just the high-profile Senate/House/Governor elections that we've been reading about in these threads (thanks Chrysostom!). Municipal, county, and state positions are probably up for grabs where you live.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 12:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, VIRGINIA, WHEN ARE YOU COMING TO KNOCK DOORS

GET OUT THE VOTE IS THIS WEEKEND

MEMAIL ME
posted by dogheart at 12:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


Can we make all the #resistance tweeters write 100 times on a chalk board that 'vlad' is not the correct diminutive for Vladimir?

What IS the diminutive for Vladimir?
posted by Billiken at 12:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


-eliminates the deduction for teachers who buy supplies out of pocket (currently capped at $250)

I don't usually quote my own material, but as I said many, many US politics threads ago, for modern Republicans, the real treasure is the suffering they caused along the way.

I swear to God they don't seem to be happy unless they're kicking someone lower on the ladder than they are.

And I'm finally starting to understand that, despite what independents and centrists often say in defense of so-called fiscal conservatism, it actually doesn't matter if a government provided good or service costs pennies a year or truly is a sizable chunk of the budget: if it helps a person who's not part of their gang, if that person's losing it would cause hardship that could otherwise be avoided, they're all for it.
posted by lord_wolf at 12:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [62 favorites]


Vova
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


BOOM - Mueller formally links Manafort to Moscow mobster Mogilevich in his indictment! Newsweek: Mueller Reveals New Manafort Link to Organized Crime "Trump’s former campaign manager didn’t just do business with accused gangsters. One of them transferred millions into a Manafort account, allegedly used for money laundering."
The indictment (PDF), unsealed on Monday, includes an extensive look into Paul Manafort’s byzantine financial dealings. In particular, it details how he used a company called Lucicle Consultants Limited to wire millions of dollars into the United States.

The Cyprus-based Lucicle Consultants Limited, in turn, reportedly received millions of dollars from a businessman and Ukrainian parliamentarian named Ivan Fursin, who is closely linked to one of Russia’s most notorious criminals: Semion Mogilevich.

Mogilevich is frequently described as “the most dangerous mobster in the world.” Currently believed to be safe in Moscow, he is, according to the FBI, responsible for weapons trafficking, contract killings, and international prostitution. In 2009, he made the bureau’s Ten Most Wanted Fugitives list.[...]

At least some of the money Manafort and Gates used to pay for all those goodies appears to have come from Fursin. The New York Times reported in July that Lucicle and Fursin are tied to an “offshore entity, Mistaro Ventures, which is registered in St. Kitts and Nevis and listed on a government financial disclosure form that Mr. Fursin filed in Ukraine.”

According to the Times, “Mistaro transferred millions to Lucicle in February 2012 shortly before Lucicle made the $9.9 million loan to Jesand L.L.C., a Delaware company that Mr. Manafort previously used to buy real estate in New York.” It was one month after that transfer that Lucicle started shelling out millions to pay for cars, clothes, and real estate, according to the indictment.

That isn’t Fursin’s only connection to Manafort. He is also a lawmaker for the Party of Regions, which paid at least $17 million to Manafort’s firm.
And remember, Trump Org has links to Mogilevich, too. Incidentally, Mogilevich’s lieutenant in the US, Vyacheslav "Yaponchik" Ivankov, was a resident of Trump Tower who reportedly had in his personal phone book the private telephone and fax numbers for the Trump Organization’s office in that building.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [97 favorites]


fiscal conservatism

Fiscal conservatives do not exist. I know George Will and David Broder and the NYT editorial page pretends that they do, and that we should take the concerns of these imaginary beings into consideration, but the simple fact is that Fiscal Conservatives, like the Tooth Fairy, simply do not exist.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 12:10 PM on November 2, 2017 [58 favorites]


I swear to God they don't seem to be happy unless they're kicking someone lower on the ladder than they are.

As they have publicly admitted to the press more than once, they only know how to oppose, they don't know how to govern.
posted by Melismata at 12:11 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Also: yikes, only four days to a new thread? I don't think it's a record, but man am I tired...
posted by Melismata at 12:12 PM on November 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


The flip side of the Vladimir/Vova thing is that Vlad is short for Vladislav.
posted by Justinian at 12:13 PM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


Hmm, is "TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS TIES TO RUSSIAN MOB" an easier/better sell than collusion, in terms of the narrative? I kind of want to say it is, but lol the Republican base. They're already at or this close to "Russia is our friend so collusion = Good!" so I'm not sure they won't twist themselves into some new contortion to declare "Russian Mob = Best Mob, so smart to have ties to them!" or some nonsense. I'd say it'd be easy enough to pin it all on Manafort, but come on, no way Trump himself hasn't had direct dealings with shady Russian mob types after so many years in the NYC real estate business.
posted by yasaman at 12:14 PM on November 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


So Leah McElrath reports on Twitter that Kislayak was hanging out at Kennesaw the spring before the election.

Kennesaw. The place that ran Georgia's elections. You know, the same one with the baleeted server.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:14 PM on November 2, 2017 [83 favorites]


I don’t know if this is the right place, but as an update: I was just on the phone with my grandfather’s widow this morning and she says conditions there are far worse than are being reported. Apparently the morgues are so full that she says the soldiers have set up tents outside the morgue to try to keep the bodies cold while they wait for them to be processed. They are being told by local government that there will not be water for months. Anyone who wants water needs to go to city buildings downtown and haul it themselves, including the elderly. Banks are letting people take out money now and there is food but because of the lack of water, hygiene conditions are terrible and people are getting very sick. The hospitals are still trying to help people but they don’t have enough supplies or people for the conditions and are only able to deal with some emergencies. This is in western PR at least.
posted by corb at 12:14 PM on November 2, 2017 [272 favorites]


Oh my god, Corb. I am so sorry. There really are no words.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:15 PM on November 2, 2017 [66 favorites]


Jesus Christ, corb, that's beyond.....*anything*.

Since the POTUS won't mobilize any help for Puerto Rico, can I get a reminder of the best places to send some money?
posted by wenestvedt at 12:16 PM on November 2, 2017 [15 favorites]




Can we make all the #resistance tweeters write 100 times on a chalk board that 'vlad' is not the correct diminutive for Vladimir?

Look, I was told it was okay by the stories of Vlad Taltos - T-A-L-T-O-S, spell it right - and I'm sticking with it.

The Jhereg series is SO GOOD you guys...
posted by phearlez at 12:18 PM on November 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


I still can't wrap my head around the fact that it's been less than ten months since he took office. It has been an exhausting year.
posted by azpenguin at 12:19 PM on November 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


The Cut Cut Cut Jobs and Economic Growth bill also eliminates the historic tax credits...a program that creates millions of skilled jobs, contributes to economic redevelopment, and actually makes money for the Treasury.

Please add it to the list when you call your Congresspeople.
posted by Preserver at 12:20 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


If Mueller has another guilty plea in his pocket (perhaps Flynn's), should he release it when Air Force One takes off, or is that too smug?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:21 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


If Mueller has another guilty plea in his pocket (perhaps Flynn's), should he release it when Air Force One takes off, or is that too smug?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 14:21 on November 2 [1 favorite +] [!]


No, because I actually have Heineken and Old Vienna Hot Corn here for Wheels Up.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:23 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Oh god, I didn't realize Trump will be in South Korea. Will he moon the DMZ?
posted by tivalasvegas at 12:29 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


And it's going to take fossil fuels to push power out into those villages in Africa

Citation needed.
posted by peeedro at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


Remember CHIP? I guess we're just done with that now?
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [72 favorites]


I don't see how the Republicans would have the votes within their own caucus for Cuts Cuts Cuts. It would increase the deficit way too much for the deficit hawks, even if they make wildly inaccurate predictions for how much tax revenue they can get on the new economic activity. I am curious to see what the CBO says and what the Senate comes up with.

That said ... I kinda don't hate the bill from top to bottom. I am an accountant and I volunteer a good chunk of time every year to assist low- and middle-income folks with their taxes. Our current system, as it applies to lower- and middle-income earners, is needlessly complicated. It's a lot of time and effort (and money!) wasted at this lower end. I support having a very generous standard deduction instead of various special deductions. In that sense, I think the Republicans are on the right path here ... but it doesn't matter because their priority is tax cuts for the rich, and they can't afford to give away that much. Sigh.
posted by stowaway at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


As wonderful as Monday's news was, I'm now unable to get this Vox article out of my head: America is facing an epistemic crisis. The scenarios depicted within feel all too plausible.
posted by jsnlxndrlv at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [47 favorites]


The avalanche of stupid coming from the WH made me forget about Mike Pence mean-mugging at the DMZ until tivalasvegas reminded me.
posted by haileris23 at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


That statement is still fucking stupid guys.
posted by Artw at 12:34 PM on November 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


So what he's really saying is that infrastructure can help prevent sexual assault.


This is actually something we've known since the late 19th century, it's just that infrastructure is one of the things we no longer want to invest in.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:34 PM on November 2, 2017 [45 favorites]


Here's a pitch for the tax cut bill.

Join the brotherhood who is striving to overthrow our current tyranny of taxes. Join the Coup Cuts Clan.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:36 PM on November 2, 2017 [25 favorites]




Haha, snort: Gates and Manafort asked if they could take off their GPS bracelets for house arrest, judge said no. cite
posted by Melismata at 12:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [108 favorites]


I have been unable to confirm or deny if head of household filing status is still in the new plan, has anyone seen mention of it?

Yes, it's still there. (I haven't read carefully enough yet to see whether they've tweaked it in a way to otherwise mess it up though.)

Any of you taxy types know how this new tax plan will affect Americans living overseas? Asking for a me.

There are some changes to IRC Sec. 911 (foreign earned income exclusion) that appear to be minor on first glance. No changes that I can see to foreign financial account reporting.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


The debate over this tax plan absolutely needs to include discussion of the debt. Taking the $1.5 trillion figure, we can't let Repubs claim that people will save $1,000 a year without pointing out that every man, woman and baby in the U.S. will owe $5,000 more in debt, plus tons of interest every year.

The middle class tax cuts expire after 5 years, while cuts for the rich go on and on. So basically, people are at best getting a VISA cash advance that they'll have to pay back. That's the bait for giving billions to companies and rich inheritors.
posted by msalt at 12:43 PM on November 2, 2017 [85 favorites]


Yes, and he's very explicitly saying that Africa's infrastructure needs to be developed with fossil fuels and not with renewables.


Well, yes- that's what makes it stupid.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:45 PM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Since the POTUS won't mobilize any help for Puerto Rico, can I get a reminder of the best places to send some money?

While I appreciate the thought and desire, I am honestly overwhelmed right now and the idea of coming up with the Best Org to donate to is kind of intimidating. But I think maybe it doesn’t have to be the best? Anything you can do is more than he will and makes people in PR a little less forgotten.
posted by corb at 12:51 PM on November 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


We can beat the debt drum all day long, but deficit hawks and fiscal conservatives only come home to roost when Democrats are in power.

See NY Times
posted by pdoege at 12:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Charity Navigator has a list of charities providing assistance in Puerto Rico and other areas affected by the hurricanes.
posted by lharmon at 12:55 PM on November 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


I have given to and have been plugging Unidos por Puerto Rico but the list that lharmon has many other good charities.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:58 PM on November 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


Taking the $1.5 trillion figure, we can't let Repubs claim that people will save $1,000 a year without pointing out that every man, woman and baby in the U.S. will owe $5,000 more in debt, plus tons of interest every year.

The assertion is that the tax cuts will pay for themselves through, I dunno, magic. This is coming from the same people (literally, the same ones!) who said the Iraq War would pay for itself. (Narrator: It didn't.)
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:00 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


America is facing an epistemic crisis

Post-ABC poll: Most Americans approve of Trump-Russia probe, and nearly half think Trump committed a crime
More than twice as many Americans approve as disapprove of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of possible coordination between Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign and the Russian government, a new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds, indicating that the conservative effort to discredit the probe has fallen flat as the case has progressed toward its first public charges.

A 58 percent majority say they approve of Mueller’s handling of the investigation while 28 percent say they disapprove, the Post-ABC poll finds. People’s views depend in large part on their political leanings, but overall, Americans are generally inclined to trust Mueller and the case he has made so far.

Meanwhile, fewer than 4 in 10 Americans say they believe Trump is cooperating with Mueller’s investigation, while about half believe he is not.

A similar 49 percent think it is likely Trump himself committed a crime in connection with possible Russian attempts to influence the election, though more say this view is based on suspicion rather than hard evidence.
posted by chris24 at 1:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [62 favorites]


We can beat the debt drum all day long, but deficit hawks and fiscal conservatives only come home to roost when Democrats are in power.

This. The national debt does not matter. No one thinks it does, least of all Republicans. Except when they want to use it as a cudgel to stop Democrats from enacting their agenda. Buying into their bullshit that we should care one iota about the national debt is the quickest way to hamstring a future Democratic congress. Remember when Obama tried to sell out Social Security and Medicare in the 2011 "Grand Bargain"? That was because he bought into Republican debt chicken little framing.

The national debt doesn't. fucking. matter. ever.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [53 favorites]


In Wisconsin, the best demonstration of how the tax cuts end up costing us more is the roads... We may save 1k in taxes now, but have to pay way more than that to get the suspensions on our car fixed due to potholes.
posted by drezdn at 1:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Carter Page has been with the Senate Intel Committee for five hours now. Sans lawyer.
posted by PenDevil at 1:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [110 favorites]


In Wisconsin, the best demonstration of how the tax cuts end up costing us more is the roads... We may save 1k in taxes now, but have to pay way more than that to get the suspensions on our car fixed due to potholes.

I remember dealing with this exact scenario while playing SimCity 2000.
posted by Melismata at 1:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [39 favorites]


YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!
posted by msbutah at 1:07 PM on November 2, 2017 [31 favorites]


The national debt doesn't. fucking. matter. ever.

Basically every politics conversation with my dad features a trip to national debt lane. I think it's a legitimate belief, and one he's held as long as I've been able to understand, but it seems to have zero logical effect on his voting in the general elections. He's a consistent Republican voter, despite all the evidence that voting for the Republicans to be deficit hawks is foolish. Occasionally, it seems to come out, a tiny bit, in primaries, where he was a Kasich man at first, before jumping ship to (*vomits into mouth*) Cruz when he saw Kasich had no chance to stop Trump. It's maddening that he can't be convinced to vote for the party that is demonstrably better on the issue he claims to care about, for reasons that were set in stone 30 years ago (when they were also wrong).
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 1:09 PM on November 2, 2017 [13 favorites]




Re: Manafort/Gates

In a better world than this, on Monday, the Judge orders them held until trial. Because, you know, they have friends with private jets and shit.

Maybe I'll go buy a steak and have it on hand to celebrate that unlikely occurrence, then I can just toss it on the grill.

Despair is a sin.
posted by mikelieman at 1:12 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Wait--the tax plan cuts the adoption tax credit?! I thought Republicans were super supportive of adoptions, at least as “family values” cover when defunding Planned Parenthood, if not as genuine interest in, you know, helping kids and families. (Checks GOP site) Yep, seems to still be explicitly part of the GOP platform (emphasis mine):
Families formed or enlarged by adoption strengthen our communities and ennoble our nation. Private entities which facilitate adoptions enrich our communities. [...] We applaud the Republican initiatives which have led to an increase in adoptions, an achievement which should be recognized in any restructuring of the federal tax code.
Even by their own standards, how does this make any sense? In 2015 the adoption tax credit cost $300 million (source) -- spread out across a lot of families. The biggest group claiming the credit is households earning $100K to $200K (it's capped a little above $200K), & nearly two-thirds of the families claiming the credit earn less. To concentrate that money, money that's helping place children in stable families, like you said you wanted, Republicans, and kick it toward corporations is just... mindnumbingly petty and hypocritical and rapacious.

Mostly I am hardened to hypocrisy like this but some days it slips in like a slow blade and makes me want to yell and yell and yell.

P.S. Direct from the White House: Happy National Adoption Month everybody
posted by miles per flower at 1:13 PM on November 2, 2017 [46 favorites]


> Post-ABC poll: Most Americans approve of Trump-Russia probe, and nearly half think Trump committed a crime

Not to be too cynical about it, but it looks like 70 years of pro-FBI G-Man propaganda in movies and TV has an upside. So, thanks Ness, Mulder and Scully, I guess.
posted by klarck at 1:15 PM on November 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


Add me to team "deficits don't matter." Charging hypocrisy doesn't work -- all it does is give them clips they can play later when Democrats want to spend money on infrastructure or safety net programs. If the US economy were humming along smoothly then I would prioritize deficit reduction more, but it's not, so now is the time to spend so that we can "prime the pump", to coin a phrase.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:16 PM on November 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


The documents are similar to the ones Kushner gave to congressional investigators.

So, in need of a half dozen or so "revisions and corrections" as other stuff comes to light? Mueller should be cool with that, right?
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:17 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Carter Page has been with the Senate Intel Committee for five hours now. Sans lawyer.

We know what it's like trying to get a straight answer from the guy. Imagine that for five hours.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:18 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Even by their own standards, how does this make any sense?

Simple: they don't have standards. Their only ideology is tax cuts for the wealthy (and disdain for the poor, women, minorities, etc.).
posted by rikschell at 1:21 PM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


In a better world than this, on Monday, the Judge orders them held until trial. Because, you know, they have friends with private jets and shit.

Not to mention 3 different passports. The fact that one individual can do that tells me there's maybe a problem with passport control. Sad!
posted by nubs at 1:22 PM on November 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


Not to be too cynical about it, but it looks like 70 years of pro-FBI G-Man propaganda in movies and TV has an upside. So, thanks Ness, Mulder and Scully, I guess.

It's even worse. You need to thank J. Edgar Hoover, because he's the one responsible for creating the public image of the incorruptible G-man.

Strange Bedfellows.*

*insert obvious j. edgar hoover joke here.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:27 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


That Al Franken follow-up letter to Jeff Sessions is a thing of beauty. Highly recommended reading. 8 pages, but make sure you have time to SAVOR every section. Shit, I needed a cigarette when I finished it.
posted by mikelieman at 1:28 PM on November 2, 2017 [50 favorites]


If the FBI or the dept. of Correction or whoever is in charge of making sure Manafort and Gates don't make a run for it doesn't have a team of people watching their every move 24/7 I'll bake and eat a tiny hat shaped cake.

YOU CAN'T CUT BACK ON FUNDING! YOU WILL REGRET THIS!

My gut reaction to this day to anyone ever suggesting less money be spent on roads is exactly that. I can still see his face. It's like Sim City 2000 PTSD or something.
posted by VTX at 1:29 PM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


How can someone have 3 current US passports? Even applying for an additional passport seems like it should be some sort of crime to me, is there no declaration that you don't already have a valid passport anywhere on the application?
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Okay, if Manfort or Gates were in fact to flee, wouldn't that actually look incredibly shady and cast a tremendous amount of doubt on the whole administration? I mean, having the flee to nestle in the bosom of all these Russian mob dudes seems like a propaganda win, if anything.
posted by Frowner at 1:35 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


"The Best People" (tm) apparently don't hire the best lawyers.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:35 PM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Is a transcript of the Carter Page testimony going to be released?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:35 PM on November 2, 2017


You can get a duplicate passport in some cases, e.g., if you need to visit both Israel and a country that will deny your visa if you have a stamp from Israel.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [13 favorites]


Can you have more than one passport?
Yes. U.S. citizens are allowed to have more than one valid U.S. passport at the same time, according to the National Passport Information Center, which is a division of the U.S. State Department.
posted by Floydd at 1:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


> How can someone have 3 current US passports?

having two passports isn't unheard of; in order to travel to many countries you have to send your passport off in the mail to have the visa physically pasted into it, and the passport office will grant you a second passport if you have urgent and imminent business travel coming up. You can IIRC also be granted a second passport if you travel to countries which don't like each other and having e.g. stamps from Libya in your passport when you visit Israel would result in your having a very bad day at border control.

Three, though? Sounds shady as fuck to me unless one of them is a diplomatic passport or some other unusual type (which still sounds shady as fuck to me re: Paul Fucking Manifort).
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 1:40 PM on November 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


National Association of Home Builders & National Association of Realtors strongly against Tax Bill.


These idiots do it every time. Write it in secret, and then die death by 1,000 cuts because it gets torched by interest groups. There's a reason why you don't write shit in secret! It keeps it from blowing up in your faces!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:40 PM on November 2, 2017 [36 favorites]


Sans lawyer.

That's almost comic.


Comic Sans Lawyer: Coming this fall on ABC.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:44 PM on November 2, 2017 [111 favorites]


Free question for White House reporters: If Trump’s defense is, “collusion isn’t a crime” then why would you need a special prosecutor to charge Hilary Rodham Clinton with “collusion?”

What IS the diminutive for Vladimir?

Vladimir
posted by Room 641-A at 1:44 PM on November 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


Can I just say that I don't really think any of these shitstains deserve to have the words 'The Honorable' preceding their name for any reason. They are public fucking servants, not royalty.
posted by yoga at 1:45 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


die death by 1,000 cuts

Coincidentally, that was the working title of the plan.
posted by Sys Rq at 1:45 PM on November 2, 2017 [38 favorites]


Wait--the tax plan cuts the adoption tax credit?! I thought Republicans were super supportive of adoptions, at least as “family values” cover when defunding Planned Parenthood, if not as genuine interest in, you know, helping kids and families.

And we had a placement on Aug 26th, with finalization probably to happen around March of next year. So this is a big punch right in the face for my family, as expenses towards the ATC count for the year after you make them. So other than the under $1k for our home study and clearances that means all the huge payments we made in this year won't get credited.

Really this is sort of the second stabbing for the ATC since it hasn't been refundable for years. It's great for my family since we have $13,400 in taxes to offset. Someone earning, say, $40k would only get to realize about $5k in savings, the other $8,400 can be carried forward up to 5 years. Which requires doing taxes with a level of complexity above average.
posted by phearlez at 1:48 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think it's a symptom of having exceeded their goals, leotrotsky. They have succeeded in executing their horrific agenda as articulated by various think tanks / upside-down intellectuals / etc. beyond any reasonable expectation, so they are forced to improvise on policy goals. It's either random bits of clumsily dogwhistled class & gender & race & culture war unless they can get a break for their support networks to cook up an explanation for why working children in the textile mills actually results in more net limbs.

btw, I hear you're getting real popular with the kids these days. congratulations!
posted by The Gaffer at 1:49 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


I'd just like to note that with the Cut Cut Cut Act (not "plan") we are almost in the America of Walker Percy's Love In The Ruins
The old Republican Party has become the Knothead Party, so named during the last Republican convention in Montgomery when a change of name was proposed, the first suggestion being the Christian Conservative Constitutional Party, and the campaign buttons were printed with the letters CCCP before an Eastern-liberal commentator noted the similarity to the initials printed on the backs of Soviet cosmonauts and called it the most knotheaded political bungle of the century--which the conservatives, in the best tradition, turned to their own advantage, printing a million more buttons reading "Knotheads for America" and banners proclaiming "No Man Can Be Too Knotheaded in the Service of His Country."
I take what comforts I can to keep me going.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:50 PM on November 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


It's even worse. You need to thank J. Edgar Hoover, because he's the one responsible for creating the public image of the incorruptible G-man.

That image was seriously damaged in the 1970s first by the revelation following his death of Hoover's illegal activities, and then by his successor burning key evidence in the Watergate scandal plus a number of other FBI disasters in the 70s. It took a long time for FBI to regain some of that credibility (let's take it as read that not everyone here will agree it has regained any credibility).
posted by Preserver at 1:51 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Lol this hearing
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


National Education Association is against the tax bill.

National Conference of State Legislatures is against the SALT deduction change as is the US Conference of Mayors.

AARP is against eliminating the medical expense deduction (which they're calling the "health tax").
posted by melissasaurus at 1:55 PM on November 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


The FBI are cops who wear suits.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:55 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


‘We’re all sick of it’: Virginia’s election descends into another hatefest -- Voters of all persuasions are in unanimous agreement -- this Virginia Gubernatorial election sucks.
posted by schmod at 1:57 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Lol this hearing

Chris Hayes had Page going from "No" to "I don't know" to "It's possible" to "It happened" in a 10 minute softball interview on MSNBC, the dude must be spilling Kremlin state secrets by now.
posted by PenDevil at 1:58 PM on November 2, 2017 [43 favorites]


Seven hours into Carter Page interview, Rep. Speier steps out and says “it’s gonna be awhile.”

The transcript of this hearing will be wild.


REP. SPEIER: Mr Page, what was your role within the Trump campaign?
PAGE: Let me start my tale at the beginning, which seems the most appropriate place to start my tale. My father was a relentlessly self-improving boulangerie owner from Belgium with low-grade narcolepsy and a penchant for buggery... [fake]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:59 PM on November 2, 2017 [64 favorites]


You couldn't get me to talk about my favorite ice cream flavors in front of Congress without a lawyer present. The fuck does Carter Page think he's doing? First the Chris Hayes interview, now this? He's going to get someone sent to prison, if not himself.
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:00 PM on November 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


Not to be too cynical about it, but it looks like 70 years of pro-FBI G-Man propaganda in movies and TV has an upside. So, thanks Ness, Mulder and Scully, I guess.

wow way to erase the works of Special Agent Dale Cooper
posted by Apocryphon at 2:00 PM on November 2, 2017 [78 favorites]


The Cut Cut Cut Jobs and Economic Growth bill also eliminates the historic tax credits...a program that creates millions of skilled jobs, contributes to economic redevelopment, and actually makes money for the Treasury.

Shit. That would really hurt here in Pittsburgh. There are so many projects to restore all the huge old buildings around there that are only economically feasible with those credits. Without that help they're just going to be left to rot and eventually collapse.
posted by octothorpe at 2:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


Allow me to clarify my previous remark: You couldn't get me to talk about my favorite ice cream flavors in front of Congress without a lawyer present, and I haven't spent the last 18 months lying about my collusion with Russian spies trying to get Trump elected in violation of dozens of laws
posted by 0xFCAF at 2:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


JCT has released their scoring of the tax bill: available here (autodownloading PDF).

Summary thread from @econwonk (Zach Moller) in progress here, with Byrd rule impacts.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


‘We’re all sick of it’: Virginia’s election descends into another hatefest -- Voters of all persuasions are in unanimous agreement -- this Virginia Gubernatorial election sucks.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuck this both-sides BULLSHIT.

EMPHASIS MINE WAY DOWN ON THE FUCKING PAGE:
For the past few weeks, Gillespie’s campaign has run ads tying Northam, a pediatrician and Army doctor, to MS-13 gangbangers and to a child pornographer.

Northam supporters responded with fliers tying Gillespie to white nationalists. Then, a group called the Latino Victory Fund released an ad showing minority children being chased down by a pickup truck with a “Don’t Tread on Me” license plate, a Confederate flag and a Gillespie bumper sticker.
WHAT'S DIFFERENT IN THOSE TWO PARAGRAPHS DVORAK???? WHAT'S DIFFERENT YOU FUCKING SHITSTAIN HACK?
posted by phearlez at 2:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [88 favorites]


Good and entertaining Full Frontal with Samantha Bee on voting machine hacking and the push for paper ballots.

She has been killin' it if you don't watch her show. It streams on Youtube the "next day" (later that night) after air. So every Thursday or so.
posted by Crystalinne at 2:07 PM on November 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


The national debt doesn't. fucking. matter. ever.

If it didn't matter, Republicans wouldn't use it as an argument. Think what you will about them, they understand what messages work with voters.

My point is, you have to connect it with the phase out of middle class tax cuts (which need to be emphasized anyway). These cuts will be paid back in the future - after all of YOUR tax cuts are gone, while the rich guys get to keep theirs.
posted by msalt at 2:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


He's going to get someone sent to prison, if not himself.

It's an honourable job and someone's got to do it.
posted by dng at 2:10 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


"...and that's the whole truth, or my name's not Carter Page!"

"Is your name Carter Page?"

"Well, actually, no."
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:11 PM on November 2, 2017 [49 favorites]


Carter Page is a very Ford Prefect sort of a name, isn't it.
posted by corvine at 2:12 PM on November 2, 2017 [55 favorites]


Carter The Unstoppable Speech Machine
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:14 PM on November 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


Down here in Western Central Virginia, we get 3 times as many MS-13 ads (which are infuriating and insulting in addition to being misleading and filled with bastard sauce) as we get Northam ads, which are 50% "These Folks are Who Gillespie Lobbied For "(Enron, student loanmongers, Trump), and 50% Northam responding to Gillespie (which are not ... great).

Those MS-13 ads leave a slimy trail of ick behind them which is why I suspect they've replaced the "Northam is a wraith who wants to make your house a sanctuary city and rent it out to terrorists" ads that were just insulting and over-worked.

The Virginia Dems need to find someone better at doing their TV spots. I don't need them to go soulless and mean-spirited and mean-minded and bastardy like the Virginia GOP, but they need to be better at production values and presentation and messaging and etc. The Northam refutation ads are terrible production design, and they sure as heck don't showcase the man himself well at all.
posted by julen at 2:15 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


I’m a registered Dem in northern Virginia and the ONLY ads I’ve seen in this governor race on both sides have been negative. Gillespie seems to be trying to convince Trumpers he’s one of them while Northam’s been trying to scare lazy democrats into showing up. It has been almost unbearable and from the perspective of every Democrat voter I know seems to be turning what should be be a Dem blow out into a close race because the Democratic Party of Virginia can’t identify ONE REASON WHY I SHOULD VOTE FOR THEM, only reasons why I need to beat the other guy. It’s despicable and disheartening. The Democratic Party is an empty shell entirely without purpose at this point apparently by design.
posted by cyphill at 2:16 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Every major Democratic politician needs to stfu about Brazile's book. I cannot believe how they are fucking up this news cycle. Jesus, maybe Perez has to go if he can't get them in line on simple shit before next week's elections.
posted by asteria at 2:20 PM on November 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


Revelation after revelation. Man, how far is it going to go before we stop using the euphemism of "collusion," and call it what it is—espionage.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 2:23 PM on November 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


Treason.

I think we can just call it treason.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:26 PM on November 2, 2017 [96 favorites]




So did Clovis really withdraw his own name from consideration for the ag undersec spot, or was he told he's not getting it after Trump found out he talked to the feds?
posted by jason_steakums at 2:28 PM on November 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


They* have Top. Men. working on it right now!

* The administration, Congress, the Democratic campaign in Virginia, take your pick
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:28 PM on November 2, 2017


Mod note: A few comments here and there deleted. Folks, I would really really like you to push to contain the chattiness more. Links and specific discussion of them is good. The occasional joke is alright. Reflexive one-liner stuff en masse is part of why these threads get huge quickly.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:30 PM on November 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


Will they be in the SCIF all night or can they call time and pick it up later?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:32 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Newsweek: JEWS SHOULD CONCERN AMERICANS MORE THAN RUSSIAN INFLUENCE, NIGEL FARAGE SAYS

I understand the history of antisemitism, but seriously what the actual fuck? How the hell has antisemitism continued into the present day? How the hell has it remained so pervasive that in 20 fucking 17 a major UK political figure feels that expressing naked, open, antisemitism is totally fine and dandy and makes a good political point?

"Well, yes, there is strong evidence indicating that the Russian government interfered in the US elections, but LOOK OVER HERE, THERE'S JEWS TO HATE AND FEAR!!!!!"

I'm horrified, baffled, and staggered.

In short, what if Mueller proves the case and it’s not enough? What if there is no longer any evidentiary standard that could overcome the influence of right-wing media?

Understanding how we got to this point and what it is doesn't suggest easy answers either. The scariest thing is this: That’s what US elites are truly afraid to confront: What if facts and persuasion just don’t matter anymore?


"What if"? Dear VOX dude, I think we passed that point a **LONG** time ago. It isn't a matter of what if, it's an absolute, dead certainty. Nothing Muller comes up with will result in a single Republican Senator voting to remove Trump from office. Nothing Muller comes up with will result in Trump resigning. And I'm doubtful that Trump's approval rating will drop much more than it is currently.

Seriously, if admitting to sexual assault (bragging about it really), if admitting to tax fraud, if being openly nakedly racist, if outright proposing tax cuts for the richest people be paid for by the poorest, if none of that is going to hurt Trump or make the Republicans vote to remove him from office, why would anyone think there's event the slightest chance that the result of Muller's investigation will change anything?

If they uncover actual video of Trump on the phone with Putin explicitly saying he wants illegal help defeating Clinton how is that going to hurt him when the actual real life video of Trump calling on Putin to hack Clinton's email for him didn't?

We already know Trump wanted and asked for Russian help winning the election, here's the video link!

So yeah, of course nothing Muller digs up will make jack shit worth of difference in terms of getting Trump removed from office.

The only political effect of Muller's investigation will be, we hope, some good fodder for pro-Democratic campaign ads. That's it.

Not to belittle Muller. Truth is its own virtue and Muller should of course deliver the absolute best criminal case he possibly can. But the only people with any authority to actually do something about Trump are the Republicans in Congress, and they won't no matter what.

Facts and persuasion don't matter anymore. There's no if involved. Not as long as we're talking about Republicans anyway.

I'm optimistic because I hope that Muller's investigation can motivate Democrats and inspire the non-voters to actually get off their asses and vote for a change. But anyone who expects the end result of Muller's investigation to be Trump being removed from office or even one single Republican Congressperson voting to remove him is fooling themselves.

Facts and persuasion haven't mattered since 1968 and the Republican Party went full bore, no holds barred, racist.
posted by sotonohito at 2:35 PM on November 2, 2017 [40 favorites]


So aside from knowing that Carter Page is as dumb as a sack of hammers, I don't know that much about him.

What are the odds that he's in there spilling ALL the beans? (Intentional or otherwise)
posted by Twain Device at 2:35 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Who is Professor Joseph 'The Professor' Mifsud, and what's his story? Well, aren't those good questions.

(Graun backgrounder, which as it says raises more questions than answers.)
posted by Devonian at 2:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


It occurs to me that if you really really needed a secure meeting with Congress, Carter Page's bizarre behavior is probably a good way to get it.

I'm still 99% sure he's just the dumbest boy in the world but that remaining 1% invites some fascinating speculation to explain his whole thing.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:40 PM on November 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


just a quick housekeeping note that doesn't need to be discussed - if folks think I'm attached to making these posts and therefore hold back on making their own: I am not!

So why are you doing this then?

"Because there's no body else to do it right now, that's why. Believe me, if there were somebody else to do it, I'd let them do it, but there's not. So we're doing it."

Ah, that's what makes you that guy.

Franken seemed like he was going to be an okay Senator when we voted him in that first time. I was just relieved, as I usually am, that we elected a Democrat. I was happy, I hoped he'd do well, but I wasn't all that enthusiastic about him. But these days I'm so happy that I so greatly underestimated him. My father-in-law, as recently as last year told me that he didn't like Franken because he's, "Too milquetoast." He likes his Senators more like Ted Cruz (yeah, he said that). Since then, I've been ever more stunned at the extent to which my FIL forms such firm opinions without realizing that he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.
SEN. AL FRANKEN: "If there was any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this (2016) campaign, what would you do?," the Minnesota Democrat asked.

SESSIONS: "I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians."
I remember seeing this exchange live and it was so weird at the time. It seemed like a perfectly reasonable question to which there should have been a succinct reply of, "If I had the evidence myself, I'd hand it over to the FBI. If I didn't, I'd insist whoever did hand it over and I'd call the FBI myself if they refused." Instead Session must have damn near shit his pants thinking, "HE KNOWS!" and we got that weird answer and the hint flop sweat. That his answer was a bald faced lie was obvious at the time but it's nice to have it confirmed.

I hope that over the next few months we'll be able to fill these threads with "So THAT'S why!" and "I fucking KNEW it!" type comments.
posted by VTX at 2:40 PM on November 2, 2017 [72 favorites]


I have this theory that Carter Page is trying to signal Trump that he's willing to take the fall for him. As far as I know, Trump hasn't called him the "coffee boy" yet, so maybe he's taken Page up on his offer. Page, honey, I hope you made sure that the check cleared before you testified.
posted by Soliloquy at 2:40 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is what Sam Clovis had to say about Trump a month before he joined his campaign:

“(Trump) left me with questions about his moral center and his foundational beliefs. ... His comments reveal no foundation in Christ, which is a big deal,” evangelical conservative activist Sam Clovis said in an email just 35 days before he quit his job as Republican Rick Perry’s Iowa chairman and signed on with Trump’s campaign.
In the emails, shared by Perry backers Wednesday with The Des Moines Register, Clovis castigated Trump for his past liberal positions and admission that he has never asked for God’s forgiveness for any wrongdoing.


Once a flipper... always a flipper.
posted by PenDevil at 2:43 PM on November 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


Someday Mueller is going to go visit a locked up Carter Page and find nothing but a Carter Page mask in an otherwise empty holding cell, with nothing on any of the security footage.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:46 PM on November 2, 2017 [52 favorites]


I can't decide if Carter Page is 1) just that dumb, 2) wants his 15 minutes of fame and doesn't care about the consequences, or 3) has some sort of vengeance motive.

In any event, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole corrupt, complicit, covfefe lot of them start flipping like pancakes and singing like canaries. That's a downside of building your empire on fear and naked exercise of power - no-one is going to cover for you or stick their neck out for you when things start to crumble.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:48 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Clovis castigated Trump for his past liberal positions and admission that he has never asked for God’s forgiveness for any wrongdoing.

I claim no moral high ground, but some people and religions hold that God can only forgive the wrongdoing one might have done to God. Any forgiveness for wrongdoing done to others actually has to come from the people who have been hurt. That usually happens, I am told, after motherfuckers who cause harm apologize for their wrongful and hurtful actions. So yeah, that'd be a great start.
posted by mosk at 2:49 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I remember seeing this exchange live and it was so weird at the time. It seemed like a perfectly reasonable question to which there should have been a succinct reply of, "If I had the evidence myself, I'd hand it over to the FBI."

I remember thinking that too - the question seemed like a nice bland, "so, what would you do about Evil Stuffs in the campaign?" setup, and the reply should've been an equally vague, "I would fight the Evil Stuffs." Or, more specifically, "I would check the evidence to confirm that it's valid and not just some hoax, and then I'd contact the appropriate authorities." Nowhere does it ask, "Do you know about Russian contacts?" so the response seemed really odd.

"If you found out the wrong band had been scheduled to play at the concert, what would you do?"
"I don't know anything about bands that aren't on the playlist. I've got a backstage pass, and I haven't talked with any other bands."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:50 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


I can't decide if Carter Page is 1) just that dumb, 2) wants his 15 minutes of fame and doesn't care about the consequences, or 3) has some sort of vengeance motive.

Carter Page declines to limit himself with your paltry "or" options. Carter Page embraces the power of "and."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:51 PM on November 2, 2017 [50 favorites]


In related news, a large hollow space in the Great Pyramid at Giza, empty and undisturbed for millennia, has been positively identified as the site of the Republican Strategic Empathy Reserves.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 2:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


My father-in-law, as recently as last year told me that he didn't like Franken because he's, "Too milquetoast."

One biographic detail I learned (late) about Franken clarified his character for me like no other: he was a wrestler in high school. Sessions, on the other hand, played football, a sport in which consists mainly of players standing about in between bursts of running around. He has no idea what he's in for with Franken as an opponent.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:56 PM on November 2, 2017 [13 favorites]




@HouseInSession (Bloomberg)
Carter Page has invoked the 5th, on his own without a lawyer, regarding document production, says House Intel member Speier. Which documents? "Any documents," she tells me.
posted by chris24 at 2:57 PM on November 2, 2017 [43 favorites]


Every major Democratic politician needs to stfu about Brazile's book. I cannot believe how they are fucking up this news cycle. Jesus, maybe Perez has to go if he can't get them in line on simple shit before next week's elections.

Right? All I have to say is, WHY THE FUCK IS THIS HAPPENING FIVE DAYS BEFORE AN ELECTION? They could not wait ONE FUCKING WEEK to start tearing the party apart? I mean I'm no fan but when you've only got two parties and one of them is full of actual Nazis you would hope the party of not-actual-fucking-Nazis would be at least a tiny bit smart about this shit, oh my god.
posted by rabbitrabbit at 2:59 PM on November 2, 2017 [106 favorites]


"I am the documents!" said Page before flinging himself at a nearby paper shredder.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:59 PM on November 2, 2017 [77 favorites]


I would worry more about Page's mental-emotional competence, except that I've met plenty of guys like him: well-off, well-educated, smart by academic standards, reasonably empathetic in the sense that they care about starving children in the abstract and don't kick puppies, etc. And many of them have the same level of doublethink about politics; they absolutely cannot grasp that there's a problem with policies that make rich people richer, and when forced to face contradictions by their heroes, they blink and handwave past with a couple of buzzwords, and go back to their abstractly-libertarian stack of phrases.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:59 PM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


(And so I don't edit: And because they think there's no problem with that approach, they cannot imagine that anything done from that approach is actually against the law. It just doesn't connect.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:00 PM on November 2, 2017


Does he think the 5th amendment is just a general "I don't want to tell you" clause, or is he legitimately claiming that all of his documents might incriminate him?
posted by 0xFCAF at 3:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Gonna be weird if we see the political downfall of both parties' presidential candidates by year's end
posted by Apocryphon at 3:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Our best hope is that he quits and/or doesn't run again in 2020.

Keep in mind: He's already running again.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Warren is great but its pretty clear she is positioning herself for 2020.
posted by Justinian at 3:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Massive Government Report Says Climate Is Warming And Humans Are The Cause (NPR, November 2, 2017)
It is "extremely likely" that human activities are the "dominant cause" of global warming, according to the most comprehensive study ever of climate science by U.S. government researchers.

The climate report, obtained by NPR, notes that the past 115 years are "the warmest in the history of modern civilization." The global average temperature has increased by about 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit over that period. Greenhouse gases from industry and agriculture are by far the biggest contributor to warming.

The findings contradict statements by President Trump and many of his Cabinet members, who have openly questioned the role humans play in changing the climate.

"I believe that measuring with precision human activity on the climate is something very challenging to do," EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt said in an interview earlier this year. "There's tremendous disagreement about the degree of impact."

That is not consistent with the conclusions of the 600-plus-page Climate Science Special Report, which is part of an even larger scientific review known as the fourth National Climate Assessment. The NCA4, as it's known, is the nation's most authoritative assessment of climate science. The report's authors include experts from leading scientific agencies, including the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, NASA and the Department of Energy, as well as academic scientists.

The report states that the global climate will continue to warm. How much, it says, "will depend primarily on the amount of greenhouse gases (especially carbon dioxide) emitted globally." Without major reductions in emissions, it says, the increase in annual average global temperature could reach 9 degrees Fahrenheit relative to pre-industrial times. Efforts to reduce emissions, it says, would slow the rate of warming.
...
The report has been submitted to the Office of Science and Technology Policy at the White House. Trump has yet to choose anyone to run that office; it remains one of the last unfilled senior positions in the White House staff.
No link to the report in that article, but it's scheduled to come out tomorrow. Meanwhile, the New York Times posted the final draft report, dated 28 June 2017, back on August 7, 2017.
posted by filthy light thief at 3:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [35 favorites]


Does he think the 5th amendment is just a general "I don't want to tell you" clause, or is he legitimately claiming that all of his documents might incriminate him?

honestly i suspect it's the latter
posted by halation at 3:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


For the Thousandth Time: The Problem is the Republican Party, Stupid
I keep hearing that Democrats should either talk about economic issues or pitch their message to the emerging, more-diverse electorate -- but I don't understand why this has to be an either/or choice. Democrats who can't figure out how to do both should get the hell out of big-league politics, in favor of people who can walk and chew gum at the same time. [...]

But please, please, please: Make the point that the Republican Party is the problem. The Republican Party has contempt for you if you're non-white or LGBT or if you're unemployed or need health care for a child with chronic illness or live downstream from a chemical plant. The key to changing America is not electing Republicans.

But what are we doing? We're fixating on Donald Trump and portraying him as an anomaly, not as the culmination of long-term trends in his party. We're cheering on supposedly brave Republicans such as Bob Corker and Jeff Flake, ignoring the fact that the entire GOP, including, on most votes, Corker and Flake, has circled the wagons to protect Trump. We're rehabilitating George W. Bush, which, as Ryan Cooper writes, is nuts: [...]

We're falling into the trap Hillary Clinton fell into: We're assuming that "real Americans" don't trust any idea unless it's ratified by a Republican, so we're seeking Republican validation for our opposition to Trump. That just reinforces the notion that Democrats aren't worthy of respect.

Democrats: Be proud of who you are, speak up for yourselves, and talk about what Republicans have done over the past few decades and how their extremism hurts ordinary people. The problem is the Republican Party, stupid.
posted by tonycpsu at 3:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [143 favorites]


"You won't get any documents from me, Congressman. Not. One..."

*sunglasses*

"...Page."
posted by jason_steakums at 3:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [86 favorites]


or is he legitimately claiming that all of his documents might incriminate him?

It's not unreasonable to start with, "I don't know which of these documents might be inciminating, so I'm invoking the 5th on all of them."

And hell, considering what a tangled clusterfuck this whole thing is, that might even be the truth. When your "what happened" board looks less like a set of pins-with-strings and more like someone just shot silly string and maybe a can of cheese whiz at it, a random shopping list may be an incriminating document.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


the political downfall of both parties' presidential candidates by year's end
I thought one of the two fell down last election day...

he didn't like Franken because he's, "Too milquetoast."
He's not milquetoast, but he played one (Stewart Smalley) on TV.
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:07 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


"You won't get any documents from me, Congressman. Not. One..."

*sunglasses*

"...Page."


*poses with arms crossed
*awkward pause
*a senator clears throat
*still posing
*silence
*senators shuffle papers, exchange glances
*bailiff removes sunglasses
posted by saturday_morning at 3:09 PM on November 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


UGHGHGHGHGH Can we not give this story any more clicks??!

The problem is not that people are reading the stories, it's why are these prominent Democrats doing this right now? Honestly, this is a really weird thing that feels like it has a backstory.
posted by bongo_x at 3:13 PM on November 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


Metafilter: Latest new political euphemism, "Filled with bastard sauce."
posted by Oyéah at 3:28 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


So Zuck made a statement during the Facebook earnings call about foreign actors using FB to sway elections. According to him they are going to put so much effort into security "that it will significantly impact our profitability going forward, and I wanted our investors to hear that directly from me.".

So problem solved I guess.
posted by PenDevil at 3:34 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Does Zuck know if he runs for president every question will either be about this or about whatever new stupid thing FB has done by 2019?

Cause it doesn't seem like he knows.
posted by asteria at 3:37 PM on November 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


I feel like the Brazile/DNC thing is newsworthy and interesting enough to warrant it's own thread, any takers?
posted by supercrayon at 3:41 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Today, it was my pleasure and great honor to announce my nomination of Jerome Powell to be the next Chairman of the @FederalReserve.
posted by christopherious at 3:41 PM on November 2, 2017


As fun as it would be to try and settle old scores endlessly until the heat-death of the universe, this is an opportunity to force the leadership to acknowledge its transparency issues and its money issues and its lack of adequate support for down-ballot elections issues. Charge and pillory who you want later, first hold the organization as a whole accountable for being incompetently run and insolvent.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's just all around excellent and great that the BBUUUTTT CCLLLIINNNTONN distraction Trump and Company desperately needed but couldn't get going on their own winds up coming from the left after all. Fucking nice work all around, just wonderful.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:43 PM on November 2, 2017 [66 favorites]


If the Democrats can't simultaneously prosecute the opposition while purging itself, well, they're not any more capable than the Republicans at all!
posted by Apocryphon at 3:44 PM on November 2, 2017


Powell is pretty friendly with Wall Street so a silver-lining for the DNC is Trump might manage to get us in a recession even without a war. Still hope for 2024!

Charge and pillory who you want later, first hold the organization as a whole accountable for being incompetently run and insolvent.

One thing all sides can agree on is that DWS was not good at her job.
posted by asteria at 3:45 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


I feel like the Brazile/DNC thing is newsworthy and interesting enough to warrant it's own thread, any takers?

If there were a politics section of the site. But I don't see how people who aren't interested in political discussion want that on the front page, and this is the story of the moment.
posted by bongo_x at 3:46 PM on November 2, 2017


The Brazile story is interesting but I feel like we should wait for more news to unfold on it first.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:47 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Man who thinks pollution can make children healthier expected to join Trump's environment team. 'Modern air,' Robert Phalen said in 2012, 'is a little too clean for optimum health.'
posted by adamvasco at 3:48 PM on November 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


I'm genuinely starting to wonder if there's something really wrong with Page to the point that it is maybe not 100% morally clean to put him on TV like this without the benefit of legal counsel.

Why not? We do it with Trump.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:49 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don’t undsrand this postcard thing all.

First, Republicans have been promising taxes so simple you can do them on a postcard for so many decades that it just sounds damn anachronistic by now. In 2017, “let me sit down with a ballpoint pen and carefully enter numbers into tiny boxes on a piece of paper, make a copy of it for my records, then mail it off somewhere” doesn’t sound easy at all. Easy would be “the IRS computes everything based on all the information returns they have on me, provides me a secure way to access it, and asks me to fill in anything that’s missing.”

But beyond the dwindling number of people who consider anything involving giving your financial information to the postal service unprotected by so much as an envelope to be a modern and efficient way to conduct business, what actually have Republicans done in this plan to simply the tax code so a return could actually fit on a postcard?. They’ve eliminated some deductions and credits, yes, but nothing that would really change the 1040EZ, which is already a single page.
posted by zachlipton at 3:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


It's just all around excellent and great that the BBUUUTTT CCLLLIINNNTONN distraction Trump and Company desperately needed but couldn't get going on their own winds up coming from the left after all.

I can't get over how incredibly bizarre it is, that in the middle of all the shit that's going down, 2 big Democratic names feel like they need to pop up and say "You know who else sucks? Hillary Clinton. Now is a good time to rehash last years primaries." And throw the word "rigged" around with no evidence.

Even if this was 100% the case, and I don't believe that for a second, why would now be the time to bring that up?
posted by bongo_x at 3:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [81 favorites]


The simple answer is that Donna Brazile has a book coming out, Politico wants clicks, it's a story for the sake of views and outrage is the side-effect.

The conspiracy theory answer is that there's some sort of intra-party purge going on, and the powers that be have seen fit to schedule it during a time of perceived exceptional Republican weakness.
posted by Apocryphon at 3:56 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Um, where the hell did Trump's Twitter go? It's gone.
posted by zachlipton at 3:56 PM on November 2, 2017 [24 favorites]


Twitter finally got around to deleting Russian troll accounts I guess.
posted by chris24 at 3:58 PM on November 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!

@realdonaldtrump seems to be gone.
posted by anastasiav at 3:58 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


It's caused me unrelenting anxiety for over a year, and now it's gone I've run cold.
posted by Freon at 3:59 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Huh. Google cache of the president's Twitter: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:w6enoD0t4BEJ:https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I'd love to believe he's been TOS'd.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:59 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Uh, it's back... weird.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:00 PM on November 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Uh, his Twitter comes right up for me, guys. Maybe he's got you blocked?
posted by palomar at 4:00 PM on November 2, 2017


Probably just a technical covfefe...

But maybe yelling DEATH PENALTY counted as a death threat and he violated their TOS.
posted by mmoncur at 4:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


We'll all remember where we were when we had that brief rush of excitement that something serious happened.

In reality, it was probably just another technical glitch from a company that popularized the Fail Whale.
posted by tonycpsu at 4:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [21 favorites]


@Alex_Roarty (McClatchy)
fwiw: spokeswoman for Warren says the senator agreed the DNC was rigged, not the primary process itself
posted by chris24 at 4:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Well, that was really nice for one brief shining moment.

(If you missed it and are wondering what happened, his account briefly led to a "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!" error.)
posted by zachlipton at 4:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


(If you missed it and are wondering what happened, his account briefly led to a "Sorry, that page doesn’t exist!" error.)

KEEP TRYING, TIME TRAVELERS
posted by halation at 4:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [129 favorites]


If I remember right, the fifth amendment works quite differently for documents. It doesn't protect you from the incriminating content of the documents, because the documents aren't testimony. It protects you if the act of gathering and providing them might be considered "testimonial." For example, it'd be hard to respond to a subpoena for "all documents showing payoffs you received from Russia" without incriminating yourself. It's different, however, if they already know what documents you have (e.g., "notes you took during the meeting on [date]" that we already know you attended). The fifth amendment shouldn't apply in that situation.
posted by mabelstreet at 4:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Attention all Democratic politicians: Please lets try to avoid disaster in 2018 before campaigning for 2020. Thank you. Signed, America.
posted by Justinian at 4:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [29 favorites]


Did anyone get a screen cap of that?
posted by Room 641-A at 4:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


The president doesn't seem to be aware that New York doesn't have a death penalty.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


why are these prominent Democrats doing this right now?

This is why.

To give the money quote :
“Yes. I mean, I think we’ve got to work in two ways,” Sanders answered. “Number one, we have got to take on Trump’s attacks against the environment, against women, against Latinos and blacks and people in the gay community, we’ve got to fight back every day on those issues. But equally important, or more important: We have got to focus on bread-and-butter issues that mean so much to ordinary Americans.”

Sanders said those “ordinary Americans” are “not staying up every day worrying about Russia’s interference in our election.” Instead, he said, “They’re wondering how they’re going to send their kids to college” or “how they’re going to be able to pay the rent” or “whether they can afford health care.”
So, Sanders says he doesn't believe women, LGBTQ, or PoC are ordinary Americans, and their needs should take a back seat to economic populist concerns. This story was just starting to get some traction, and then "Hey! Hillary stole the nomination!" Very convenient timing.

But hey, this is nothing I didn't know about Sanders already. And I've been told for nearly two years that "identity politics" is wrong, and we should concentrate on economic populism.

But hey, in 2020, I'm already expecting to have everyone I care for thrown under the bus. And then it will be "Hey, why aren't you groups out there campaigning?"
posted by happyroach at 4:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [53 favorites]


A screenshot of that
posted by zachlipton at 4:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Previous record was 123k. They'll end up around 150k.

@ElectProject
2017 now has the highest early vote total for any non-presidential election in Virginia history, with voting continuing through Saturday https://www.elections.virginia.gov/resultsreports/registration-statistics/registrationturnout-statistics/index.html
posted by chris24 at 4:09 PM on November 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


USA Today, Trump nominates some club members to plum government jobs
A USA TODAY review finds that Trump has installed at least five people who have been members of his clubs to senior roles in his administration, ranging from Bernstein and Callista Gingrich, the nation’s new ambassador to the Vatican, to Adolfo Marzol, a member of the Trump National Golf Club in suburban Washington, who serves as a senior adviser at the Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Presidents often name campaign donors and close allies to administration posts, particularly prized diplomatic postings in cosmopolitan European capitals, such as Paris and London, and the tourist playgrounds of the West Indies.

But never in modern history has a president awarded government posts to people who pay money to his own companies.
posted by zachlipton at 4:13 PM on November 2, 2017 [35 favorites]


This is why.
To give the money quote :


I've seen that. And I don't know how Bernie could be more wrong. I'm worried about paying the bills, and probably won't have health insurance soon, but the most important thing to me right now is Russia rigging American politics. Until that is figured out we have nothing. Dismissing that as not important is very odd.
posted by bongo_x at 4:14 PM on November 2, 2017 [34 favorites]


Is there any evidence that Donna Brazile, a WOC, is somehow a secret surrogate for the Sanders faction? Or that Elizabeth Warren, a woman and a POC, who was a Clinton surrogate, is now a Sanders turncoat? That Sanders is responding to an op-ed by The Root through a neutron bomb-level deflection delivered by Brazile, who was writing a book far before that speech was made?

I'm already expecting to have everyone I care for thrown under the bus.

Future Onion article: "Present-day Hillary Clinton denounces 2016 Hillary Clinton"
posted by Apocryphon at 4:15 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


So who took his phone for 5 minutes and deleted his account before he called the praetorian guard on them? Kelly? Ivanka?
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:20 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Or that Elizabeth Warren, a woman and a POC

Putting forward Warren as a person of color in this context seems... dubious.
posted by Justinian at 4:20 PM on November 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


(Warren self identifies as white, just to clarify.)
posted by Justinian at 4:23 PM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


(Just home from work.)

Sorry, corb, I honestly wasn't asking you personally to be my charity sherpa, I was asking MeFites at large if there was a known shortcut to this always-throny problem. I figured you'd be too wrung out. Sorry!
posted by wenestvedt at 4:24 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


I was asking MeFites at large if there was a known shortcut to this always-throny problem
...
Any of you taxy types know how this new tax plan will affect Americans living overseas? Asking for a me.
...
What IS the diminutive for Vladimir?
...
How can someone have 3 current US passports?


There is an entire subsite where the collective intelligence of MetaFilter can be brought to bear.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 4:30 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Manu Raju‏ @mkraju (the CNN author of the preceding article): Carter Page leaves House Intel after more than 6.5 hours; I asked him if he's spoken to Mueller yet, he declined to comment
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:36 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Why would he decline to comment? He comments on every other goddamn topic. That doesn't make any sense. Nothing makes any sense.
posted by Justinian at 4:37 PM on November 2, 2017 [29 favorites]


CNN: Exclusive: Carter Page testifies he told Sessions about Russia trip

And to go with this, new from the Times...

Trump and Sessions Denied Knowing About Russian Contacts. Records Suggest Otherwise
Standing before reporters in February, President Trump said unequivocally that he knew of nobody from his campaign who was in contact with Russians during the election. Attorney General Jeff Sessions has told the Senate the same thing.

Court documents unsealed this week cast doubt on both statements and raised the possibility that Mr. Sessions could be called back to Congress for further questioning.
posted by chris24 at 4:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [41 favorites]


I read that and couldn't figure out if it was new or old

Ha, I agree that the Times should time stamp. But it just started popping up on politics Twitter and hadn't been posted, so I assumed fresh.
posted by chris24 at 4:42 PM on November 2, 2017


So Page is ok with a transcript coming out and Leahy is asking for Sessions to come back in front of Senate Judiciary. I am so excited.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:47 PM on November 2, 2017 [66 favorites]


From Brazile's article:
Individuals who had maxed out their $2,700 contribution limit to the campaign could write an additional check for $353,400 to the Hillary Victory Fund—that figure represented $10,000 to each of the 32 states’ parties who were part of the Victory Fund agreement—$320,000—and $33,400 to the DNC. The money would be deposited in the states first, and transferred to the DNC shortly after that. Money in the battleground states usually stayed in that state, but all the other states funneled that money directly to the DNC, which quickly transferred the money to Brooklyn.
Is there any risk that the FEC could come after the DNC/state parties for this? The state parties' commitment to send the money to the DNC looks like transaction structuring to get around the rules.
posted by Coventry at 4:47 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


So Trump talked with Larry O'Connor of the Larry O'Conner show on WMAL today and explained why he hasn't locked her up yet. Reassuring.
But you know the saddest thing, because I'm the president of the United States I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department. I am not supposed to be involved with the FBI. I'm not supposed to be doing the kinds of things I would love to be doing and I'm very frustrated by it.
posted by chris24 at 4:48 PM on November 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


Why would he decline to comment? He comments on every other goddamn topic. That doesn't make any sense.

Mueller has already flipped him. If he talks about it, his plea deal is toast and he goes away for a few decades.
posted by bonehead at 4:48 PM on November 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


Newsweek, Nina Burleigh, Ivanka Trump Used Private Emails With Treasury Officials
As Republicans unveiled their tax reform plan Thursday, Newsweek learned that months after Ivanka Trump took an official White House position, she was still using a private email account to communicate with the U.S. Treasury Department, discussing national economic programs, her meetings with global leaders and the child care tax credit, one of her signature projects.
...
Representative Elijah Cummings, minority chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, requested on Thursday a vote on whether to subpoena the White House over the private emails. The subpoena had been held pending the White House internal review of the private emails, but, Cumming said in a statement, “we have received no date certain and no commitment for all the information we are seeking.”

Republicans voted it down.
We already knew Ivanka used a personal account, but this shows it went on at least through mid-July, and that the White House hasn't been honest about this either.
posted by zachlipton at 4:49 PM on November 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


Is there any risk that the FEC could come after the DNC/state parties for this? The state parties' commitment to send the money to the DNC looks like transaction structuring to get around the rules.

That's what accounting is, transaction structuring to get around rules.
posted by Justinian at 4:50 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Right, I'm virtually certain that giving to the state parties which then transfer the money to the national party is standard stuff, though, not illegal structuring. You'd have to ask a lawyer to be sure I guess.
posted by Justinian at 4:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


AP reports that the Mueller grand jury is investigating Tony Podesta, among others. Slow news day.
posted by contraption at 4:56 PM on November 2, 2017


I keep seeing investigation headlines that include "Tony Podesta, DNC Operative" or "fundraiser" or what have you. But when I look at the actual article, it's just kind of like his name is in there, too, and he was employed by one of the firms connected to Manafort...but there's not much to it than that.

Is there something here that I'm missing? Has there been an actual "ahah" with him, or is this mostly the media clutching for a "both sides" narrative? Or is this more a matter of the world of high-level political operatives being really small?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:58 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mod note: there will be a thread about the Brazile piece, maybe keep it out of this thread?
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hey guys I made a DNC/Brazile post
posted by supercrayon at 5:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


Some thoughts on taxes from Jim Tankersley, tax/econ reporter at the Times:
Let's talk about how this bill affects the middle class. This is a central question, politically and economically. Republicans are selling this bill as a middle class tax cut. Dems call it a con. And there are a lot of ways to slice the question, Is this the 'massive' middle class cut that President Trump has promised?

We'll start with the battle of the sample families, as @RichardRubinDC calls it. GOP says fam of 4 making $59k gets a $1,100 tax cut. But @davidckamin argues, in a new analysis, that the GOP sample family wud see a tax *hike* by 2024, relative to current law. That's bc a $300 family flexibility credit expires after 5 yrs (GOP says they would fight to extend, btw) & bill changes to chained CPI.

MEANWHILE. I've been playing around with TaxBrain, with the help of @MattHJensen & others. Early analysis, using TaxBrain, suggests House bill would result in a tax *increase* on 13 million filers who earn <$100k in year one. That's 13 million low/middle-income filers who'd see a tax increase right away. Bill def includes goodies for middle class, in terms of lower rates and doubled standard deduct, and average filer at $50k gets tax cut. But it also eliminates a lot of tax breaks on things we think of as linked to middle class / econ mobility....student loan interest, moving costs if you're chasing a dream job and, if you chase it to high-$ city, limits on mortgage deduction. (I suspect conservative economists like @MichaelRStrain might have things to say abt discouraging geographic mobility)

If you had "now he's going to pivot to corporate tax incidence" in the pool, congrats! The big middle class sell of this bill has been, and probably will continue to be, the idea that biz rate cuts will boost worker wages. That's why the wonky fight between @WhiteHouseCEA &other econs lately matters so much. If CEA is right, this bill wud be clear MC win. But if you don't believe corporate cuts will supercharge wages ... there's a lot of questions here.
I do not, in fact, believe that a temporary cut the corporate rate will "supercharge" wages in any way, because no business has ever said "hey, the government gave us some more money for the next few years; we'll obviously use it to pay our workers more because we love them so much and like handing them money."
posted by zachlipton at 5:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [41 favorites]


Holy moly, CARTER FUCKING PAGE FINALLY JUSTIFIES HIS SORRY EXISTENCE. Who'da thunk it? I may even take back the many, many, many, many uncharitable things I have said and thought about him.

Well, OK, a few of them at least.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


deactivated due to human error by a Twitter employee.

*snort*
posted by Melismata at 5:11 PM on November 2, 2017 [57 favorites]


By my calculations, that means Trump wasn't President for 0.000733 of a Scaramucci (assuming a CNN-specified 250 hour Scaramucci), which is hereby called a Twitamucci.

They won't ban Nazis, but I still want to go hand out cupcakes in front of Twitter HQ tonight.
posted by zachlipton at 5:12 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Oh, please don't take those steps, @TwitterGov.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:12 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Why on earth would anyone believe that a corporate tax cut would supercharge wages? When was the last time that workers benefited from corporations having more money?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:12 PM on November 2, 2017 [22 favorites]


Seriously, if Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, font of not inconsiderable cosmic evil, gets taken out by the testimonial stylings of Carter Page, I may literally die laughing, or choking on cake.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:14 PM on November 2, 2017 [101 favorites]


HappyRoach, read the Sanders quote a second time. He is not saying that there are two sets of people. Rather he lays out two areas of work for Democrats; 1) defending against Trump's attacks (both on people's rights and the *environment*) and 2) working on improving economic well being for ordinary Americans. Given the themes that Sanders has emphasized thousands of times, I think that by "ordinary Americans" Sanders means "people who actually work for a living" rather than "cis-het-white-males".
posted by Balna Watya at 5:15 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


That was also my impression of those statements. Sanders might have trouble attracting POC, but I highly doubt he doesn't see them as ordinary Americans.
posted by numaner at 5:18 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


The problem with the Sander's quote is that is outlining the concerns of non-white non-male non-straight people first and then saying "ordinary American's" second, he is notably separating those categories. He is implying that the first group is not the second. Also, is he separating out the first group from "people who actually work for a living"? Is he saying marginalized peoples don't work? It was very very poor phrasing, which coupled with past poor phrasing leads to a pattern of behavior.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:19 PM on November 2, 2017 [61 favorites]


If only "taking steps to prevent this from happening again" referred to "has since been restored."
posted by Roommate at 5:19 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Not to mention that he says focus #2 is more important than focus #1.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 PM on November 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


Oh hey, context matters. And Sanders ran a misogynist campaign and then blamed “identity politics” for Trump’s win the week after the election. Among about a billion other ducking things that we have talked about at length in these threads before.

Please stop condescending to us about what he “meant.” No one here is a political rube. We all paid attention. That we don’t all believe what Sanders says about his own beliefs is not a sign that we don’t “get” it.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:22 PM on November 2, 2017 [74 favorites]


Sanders is an old white dude who often rambles or doesn't speak with the most refined of meanings, this is far from the first time he's done that. And yet we forgive the gaffes of Democratic politicians?
posted by Apocryphon at 5:26 PM on November 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


So if this was the first time he's made this kind of gaffe, I'd absolutely agree with you. Old men ramble. But this is borderline racist/misogynistic message number... 9 thousand and twelve? At what point do we stop giving him the benefit of the doubt? Other politicians, notably women and POC make one gaffe of this level and their careers are over in seconds. Why do we keep giving Bernie the benefit of the doubt?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:28 PM on November 2, 2017 [41 favorites]


Sanders is an old white dude who often rambles or doesn't speak with the most refined of meanings, this is far from the first time he's done that. And yet we forgive the gaffes of Democratic politicians?

When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
posted by steady-state strawberry at 5:29 PM on November 2, 2017 [42 favorites]




I think that Sanders believes that non-rich white men are "ordinary Americans," and other non-rich people are ordinary Americans when their interests and concerns overlap with those of non-rich white men. When our interests and concerns differ from those of non-rich white men, we're special interests.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:31 PM on November 2, 2017 [37 favorites]


That’s not even counting the whole “not being able to accept he lost to a woman so he’s going to poison the well as much as possible” thing.

I honestly have no patience for this anymore. Believe whatever the fuck you want about Bernie Sanders, but don’t condescendingly lecture those of us who think he’s another in a long line of old white men who are sexist and racist and have zero self-awareness of it.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:32 PM on November 2, 2017 [56 favorites]


How the hell did we get back to the Sanders thing? Personally I agree with Balna Watya and numaner that "ordinary" in his language is the opposite of "rich", but I don't expect anyone who doesn't already see it that way to be convinced, and I kind of thought we'd left this in the last thread. And in a different context, "rambling old dude" would be met with charges of ageism...if the pile-on were happening in the other direction. We're not really consistent with these sorts of accusations.
posted by uosuaq at 5:35 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


But you know the saddest thing, because I'm the president of the United States I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department. I am not supposed to be involved with the FBI. I'm not supposed to be doing the kinds of things I would love to be doing and I'm very frustrated by it.

The President is whining. This is hilarious.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:36 PM on November 2, 2017 [38 favorites]


Metafilter: We're not really consistent with these sorts of accusations.
posted by Apocryphon at 5:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


He didn't describe the concerns of rich people, followed with the concerns of the "ordinary" he described the concerns of POC and then followed with concerns of the "ordinary". Maybe he meant to say rich, it certainly didn't come out that way. To describe our accusations as "baseless" is an attack on your fellow mefites, please don't.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:41 PM on November 2, 2017 [11 favorites]


Mod note: Folks, if you want to talk about Sanders you'll need to do it in a MeFi sort of way. Meta-discussion goes to MetaTalk, etc etc now and forever.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [31 favorites]


I've heard plenty of people say things like "They keep pandering to Muslims and Latinos, not ordinary Americans like us" and they obviously meant it in the dogwhistle way, and I don't see how Bernie's phrasing was any different.

This is not to say Bernie is a garbage person or anything. It's good messaging, too. People keep using that phrasing because it resonates. But "ordinary Americans" has sounded like a dogwhistle to me ever since Sarah Palin, honestly, and it made it hard for me to get on the Bernie train.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 5:43 PM on November 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


The President is whining. This is hilarious.

Apparently he misread his stump speech: there’s going to be so much whining you’ll get tired of it.
posted by nathan_teske at 5:44 PM on November 2, 2017 [18 favorites]


Since they'll be paying less money in taxes, firms will, in theory, spend that cash until they run out of worthwhile stuff to invest it in. That might be hiring more workers but that won't be the case for most. Any company you see with an active stock buy-back program is a company that is out of worthwhile stuff to invest in and are therefore returning profits to their shareholders.

I suppose some of those shareholders might spend that money so there might be some sort of knock-on trickle down effect. So like, three jobs max.
posted by VTX at 5:55 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


But you know the saddest thing, because I'm the president of the United States I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department. I am not supposed to be involved with the FBI. I'm not supposed to be doing the kinds of things I would love to be doing and I'm very frustrated by it.

Awwww, poor liddle Snowflake!
posted by notsnot at 5:58 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]




> Since they'll be paying less money in taxes, firms will, in theory, spend that cash until they run out of worthwhile stuff to invest it in.

IIRC, conventional wisdom and current F500 balance sheets indicate they just park those proceeds in short term assets. Safe, low risk move.
posted by klarck at 6:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Gosh. It's almost is if his campaign chairman was just indicted for money laundering, so he's decided now to randomly throw that charge at his former opponent or something.

So much for that whole "I am not supposed to be involved with the Justice Department" thing. That lasted, what, a couple hours?
posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


Former Trump foreign policy adviser Carter Page privately testified Thursday that he mentioned to Jeff Sessions he was traveling to Russia during the 2016 presidential campaign

Oh wow where did CNN get an inside source willing to give details on closed door congressional testimon-

Page described the conversation to CNN after he finished talking to the House intelligence committee.

...oh yeah, duh.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


Way to go, Left. Thanks for giving Trump the best possible out to this whole situation. You thought the Tarmac meeting was weaponized by the Right? Hah.

I’ll be sobbing bitterly into my pillow tonight.
posted by lydhre at 6:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


Page described the conversation to CNN after he finished talking to the House intelligence committee.

I keep getting excited about this, and then I realize that for all we know he spent 7.5 hours batting around a cat toy. I mean, he probably did, but he almost may have given 20 totally different versions of that story.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:12 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


How does political scandal involving intra-party, in fact intra-national events, affect an unrelated investigation into international wrongdoing? The press can do whatever, this has nothing to do with Mueller's investigations.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:14 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


How does political scandal involving intra-party, in fact intra-national events, affect an unrelated investigation into international wrongdoing? The press can do whatever, this has nothing to do with Mueller's investigations.

Of course it doesn’t. But Mueller’s investigation doesn’t end in impeachment unless Congress thinks that it’s the only way to save their fucking political skin. Accusing the Dems of corruption is all the cover they fucking need.
posted by lydhre at 6:18 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


We're witnessing the unfolding of the biggest scandal in American history, and you guys won't stop talking about fucking Bernie!
posted by diogenes at 6:19 PM on November 2, 2017 [105 favorites]


... The weird thing is you could replace Bernie with "Hillary" or "the DNC" or "Debbie Wasserman Schultz" and it would be just as accurate.
posted by Justinian at 6:22 PM on November 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


You know it's the worst timeline when the 2016 Democratic presidential primary is our collective Groundhog Day.
posted by maxwelton at 6:25 PM on November 2, 2017 [64 favorites]


I’m the last damn person who wants to talk about Bernie right now. I’m angry that he was brought up at all in the middle of the biggest scandal in American political history and that it will be used by the Trump administration to obfuscate, lie, and attempt to weasel out of any fucking consequences.

Christ. I find it baffling that some of you are downplaying how the GOP will exploit this. Was there anything to the emails? To Benghazi? No. Did it fucking matter?
posted by lydhre at 6:27 PM on November 2, 2017 [36 favorites]


Re: the Brazile "bombshell" (but within the context of this thread):

I wonder if perhaps this might be the work of some Obama-era eleventy-dimensional chess going on.

With the Mueller investigation ramping up & folks flipping & arrests being made, etc., maybe a little red meat for the orange embarrassment to latch onto (a pacifier, if you will) is a good thing. It seems there's no there there, beyond dems & the DNC continuing to engage some much needed soul searching.

Let them tie themselves in knots how evil & crooked Hillary was. Let them speculate about the civil war within the democratic party. Let them tilt at windmills. Mueller will keep working, but little orange fingers will be too busy to notice..

Them, of course is the republican establishment, the media, the magats, etc. Eat it up, you cowards, you craven sycophants, you greedy corporatists. Consume yourselves with this, as if it'll save you. Take your eye off the ball. I wouldn't expect any of them to care about the real issues, anyway. This amounts to inside baseball & egg on the face of an establishment that its own constituents recognize needs help. Have at it. Let Mueller continue marching forward undetected, unperturbed.
posted by narwhal at 6:27 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Christ. I find it baffling that some of you are downplaying how the GOP will exploit this. Was there anything to the emails? To Benghazi? No. Did it fucking matter?

This is exactly right. The right wing noise machine, agent provocateurs, and Russian disinformation boys are already preparing the attacks.
posted by Justinian at 6:30 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


What's the right-wing narrative going to be though? "The Clintons are corrupt and so is the DNC, therefore the sitting representatives and senators have no legitimacy"? "The socialist should've been the standard-bearer, thus we can't have Pence as president?"
posted by Apocryphon at 6:30 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


All we needed to do was hold it together and let Mueller do his thing, by 2018 it should have been pretty clear to everybody from disillusioned Rs to left-leaning Ds that voting as many of the current crop of treasonous idiots out of office as possible was the only way forward. Now instead we've handed everyone anywhere near the fence with a gold-plated reason not to bother voting, stamped in 32pt Helvetica "BOTH SIDES DO IT". And in case anyone in the media was starting to think, huh, maybe these really are false equivalencies we're setting up here, nope, they have their gold-plated "BOTH SIDES DO IT" card now as well.

I opened the fridge, saw the bag labeled "Democrats snatching defeat from the jaws of victory", opened it up, and... yep. I don't know what I was expecting really.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 6:31 PM on November 2, 2017 [25 favorites]


I would not want to talk about Bernie right now even if the entire focus of the conversation was "Wow scaryblackdeath was totally right about Bernie and I agree with everything he says." Whether you love, hate, or don't care about him at all, he's the least of all relevant topics right now.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:31 PM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]


This is a fun stunt. Senators troll Facebook with fake ad campaign
Showing they plan to continue playing hardball with Big Tech, Democratic Senators Mark Warner (Va.) and Amy Klobuchar (Minn.) created a Facebook page for a fictional political group — Americans for Disclosure Solutions (ADS) — then paid to target the newsfeeds of thousands of journalists and Hill staffers.

Why it matters: A Warner aide tells me the senator was surprised that "there was literally no mechanism on [Facebook] for us to [prove] we were who we said we were," adding, "it was really easy for Russian operatives to use the same micro-targeting tools as they attempted to meddle in last fall's presidential election ... [Y]ou can see why this would be so appealing to the Russians."
$40 to target a list of Hill staffers and DC journalists.
posted by zachlipton at 6:32 PM on November 2, 2017 [91 favorites]


I think people are having trouble keeping track of whether this is the Bernie/DNC/Brazlle thread or not! Sorry, I just assumed when I was replying. If comments contain any of those words they should probably be in the other thread.
posted by Justinian at 6:32 PM on November 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


for all we know he spent 7.5 hours batting around a cat toy

I'm going to take this delightful mental image and go read in bed for the rest of the night. Wake me up when we're ready to move on from a private political organization not allocating money transparently and back to Holy Shit Donald Fucking Trump Is Our Goddamn President Right Now.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:34 PM on November 2, 2017 [27 favorites]


What's the right-wing narrative going to be though?

“The FBI is corrupt and this Russia investigation is a partisan witch hunt because they are failing to prosecute and jail Hillary Clinton for these crimes. Fire Mueller, investigate Clinton!”
posted by lydhre at 6:35 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


I mean, they're already doing that with the uranium story, which actually involves Russia. The right-wing asking the FBI or DoJ to investigate Clinton for a Democrats-only squabble which adversely affected the socialist candidate... that'd be quite hilarious, actually.

Certainly this adds to the list of alleged crimes they have against Clinton but I don't see this as the rallying hill the same way prior stories were.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:37 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Relatively easy way out for the Dems: Do the inevitable and speed up swinging the DNC left with a purge of the old Clinton/Obama staff, double down on support to your downballot races to show you've changed for the better and the money is going where it's supposed to, have Warren and Sanders declare Mission Accomplished. Sanders, for all his faults, is popular enough to settle the issue. And then kick ass in 2018 with a better organization.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Do the above but also have Sanders appoint a successor and step away. He's as poisoned a figure as Clinton herself at this point.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:39 PM on November 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


This Franken letter to Sessions regarding the Papadapolous / Russia revelations needs to be re-posted. It could be its own FPP:

https://www.franken.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=3798
posted by xammerboy at 6:40 PM on November 2, 2017 [23 favorites]


The problem is that no matter what the Dems do or say they are not going to be able to control the narrative. The only thing Trump needed was the appearance of impropriety and now he has that in spades.
posted by lydhre at 6:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


"Hillary had Seth Rich murdered because he threatened to blow the whistle on how she rigged the DNC primary!" is one I saw today. Though less intelligible, as Twitter can be.
posted by asteria at 6:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Has Sessions been fired for perjury yet?
posted by Yowser at 6:44 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Democracy for America announces they are ending support for Northam in Virginia.

Heckuva job, DFA.
posted by Justinian at 6:46 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Has Sessions been fired for perjury yet?

Well, yes, that's exactly why he was...oh, sorry...I thought you said "hired".
posted by uosuaq at 6:49 PM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


Sessions isn't going to be fired for perjury. He could be indicted for perjury, or possibly fired because someone on Fox News implies that he's better at something than Donald Trump. But fired for perjury is not a thing that's going to happen in this administration.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:50 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


Howard Dean on DFA's announcement: "I Hope this is inaccurate because it is an incredibly stupid thing to say and deeply discredits the organization which I founded."
posted by Justinian at 6:51 PM on November 2, 2017 [44 favorites]


Here's the itinerary for the trip, starting with a stop in Hawaii tomorrow before heading to Japan. Early prediction: it gon b nuts
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:52 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


So Klownwig will be across the street from the other crazy dictator with nukes eh?

This is fine. He's totally prepared for this. Intellectually, emotionally, and socially equipped.

Yup.
posted by petebest at 7:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


This Franken letter to Sessions regarding the Papadapolous / Russia revelations needs to be re-posted. It could be its own FPP:

Seriously. We should make that an FPP, go there to talk about what actually matters right now, and leave this thread for dead.
posted by diogenes at 7:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


Why would he decline to comment? He comments on every other goddamn topic. That doesn't make any sense. Nothing makes any sense.

IF CARTER PAGE LIVES WITH EWOKS ON ENDOR THERE WAS NO COLLUSION
posted by murphy slaw at 7:01 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Hope Hicks, Trump's communication director, to be interviewed by Mueller and his team in mid-November, after she returns from Asia. And while Trump and Co. are in Asia, Mueller is going to be interviewing other officials. Boy oh boy that is going to be one happy fun travel time had by all.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:03 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Out here in Hawaii, we're not happy about his visit.

"Hawaiians to Trump: 'Wish You Weren't Here'" (set aside they mistake people who live in Hawaii for Hawaiians)

We're upset because 1) He's Trump 2) We're the bluest of blue states 3) Obama is our hometown hero 4) All the BS from Trump and Sessions that seems to call into question our statehood and 5) He's going to mess up traffic.
posted by Joey Michaels at 7:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


Don't worry, this thread will still go to 2,000 without talking about Trump/Russia at all.
posted by diogenes at 7:04 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


Woah. @TwitterGov: Through our investigation we have learned that this was done by a Twitter customer support employee who did this on the employee’s last day. We are conducting a full internal review.

Please tell me where I can buy this person a beer.
posted by zachlipton at 7:05 PM on November 2, 2017 [60 favorites]


But fired for perjury is not a thing that's going to happen in this administration.

On the other hand, if he were to get disbarred for being a disgraceful perjurer and adversary of the Constitution, a thing which neither Trump nor the GOP Congress can control, then he'd have to pack up and get out because you can't be Attorney General if you're not, you know, an attorney.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:07 PM on November 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


Heck, set that person up with Venture Funding for a new social media site...
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [6 favorites]


This was done by a Twitter customer support employee who did this on the employee’s last day.

Too bad they're no longer on staff, because as a Twitter customer, I have never felt more supported.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:09 PM on November 2, 2017 [91 favorites]


Bloomberg, The Tax Plan Could Hit the Country's Most Expensive Housing Markets, in which a Moody's analysis says "the tax changes could initially cut prices by 10 percent in expensive markets and 3 percent to 5 percent across the U.S." Making people's houses worth 10% less is not normally considered good politics.

Daily Beast, Spencer Ackerman, 2 More Guantanamo Lawyers May Be Jailed In Showdown With Government. Following the confinement of Brig. Gen. John Baker, two (DOD civilian employee) lawyers for al-Nashiri have been ordered to appear tomorrow morning so they can be compelled to continue their representation, an order they plan to resist.

Meanwhile, Ingraham's Trump interview is bonkers. Some lowlights from Daniel Dale:
Ingraham is not even asking questions. There are no question marks. She's just saying things and letting Trump talk about them.

Ingraham asks Trump if E-Verify and chain migration will have to be part of a DACA deal.

Trump: "Sure, sure."

Trump says the NYC terrorist brought in 23 people with him. Ingraham: Is that true? Trump: "Uh, it's what I heard, it's what I gave."

Donald Trump on unfilled senior posts in the State Department: "The one that matters is me. I'm the only one that matters."
Then he says "DACA is a lot different than DREAMers." It's just madness.
posted by zachlipton at 7:13 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]




During his visit to the Republic of Korea on November 7, the President will participate in a bilateral meeting with President Moon Jae-in and visit American and South Korean service members. The President will speak at the National Assembly, where he will celebrate the enduring alliance and friendship between the United States and the Republic of Korea, and call on the international community to join together in maximizing pressure on North Korea.
This is going to be a disaster.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:19 PM on November 2, 2017 [35 favorites]


People hoping for Sessions to go: Remember that if Sessions leaves for any reason his replacement AG won't be recused from the Russia investigation and could, therefore, fire Mueller.
posted by Justinian at 7:21 PM on November 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


zach, the money quote was a couple tweets away.

@ddale8: Donald Trump on unfilled senior posts in the State Department: "The one that matters is me. I'm the only one that matters."
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:26 PM on November 2, 2017 [15 favorites]


Folks, I just checked personally, and there is no party in the street in front of Twitter's headquarters in honor of this ex-employee. Not one person dancing. No fireworks. Nothing. This is not right.
posted by zachlipton at 7:28 PM on November 2, 2017 [35 favorites]


At this point I assume Sessions is following The Nunes Interpretation (also book four of a best-selling series of detective novels) of recusal, so I still want him gone.
posted by downtohisturtles at 7:29 PM on November 2, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sooooooooo this entire time literally any random Twitter support person has had access to the fucking President's account. This techbro shit has to stop. Cold.

To be maybe a bit pedantic, this support person had access to the administrative functions over the President's account—which could be an entirely different animal from e.g. impersonating/controlling that account as the legitimate user otherwise would.

It's not to say that it's not still problematic in its own way. But I'd counter the "techbro" angle by saying that this is essentially what Edward Snowden did—his case admittedly on hyper-steroids, comparatively. This is more of a technology problem than a technology company problem.
posted by Brak at 7:31 PM on November 2, 2017


Donald Trump on unfilled senior posts in the State Department: "The one that matters is me. I'm the only one that matters."

Is he saying that he is an unfilled post? I mean, I'm not disagreeing.

More seriously, the authoritarian tendencies implicit in how he conducts himself need to have more attention brought to them; he doesn't understand that he can't interfere in the Justice system, he thinks he should be able to enact legislation by fiat, and he sees no need for anyone else to be involved in decision making or foreign policy. It's beyond being not normal - it's wrong, from the perspective of how the system of government in the United States is supposed to work.
posted by nubs at 7:32 PM on November 2, 2017 [20 favorites]


It's going to blow his prion addled brain when the Prime Minister of Japan introduces him to the Emperor of Japan.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:36 PM on November 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


They were pretty easily able to tell who did it and I'm sure they figured out why shortly thereafter. That activity is logged, everyone knows that activity is logged and that's what keeps every employee with something to lose from just banning the accounts of assholes.
posted by VTX at 7:37 PM on November 2, 2017


BUT, SURPRISE TWIST, they used it for good!

According to the Twitter audit report, Donald Trump had 20 million real and 20 million fake followers before the "deactivation". Now he has 36 million real and 5 million fake. Something really fucking sketchy happened when his account was "deactivated". Don't trust anything coming out of anyone working for Twitter.
posted by dilaudid at 7:38 PM on November 2, 2017 [124 favorites]


Folks, I just checked personally, and there is no party in the street in front of Twitter's headquarters in honor of this ex-employee.

As a tech support provider myself, I'd like to nominate this person for canonization as the patron saint of my people.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:40 PM on November 2, 2017 [32 favorites]


What's the right-wing narrative going to be though?

As usual, the face of Hillary Clinton, the Enemy of the People, had flashed on to the screen. There were hisses here and there among the audience. The little sandy-haired woman gave a squeak of mingled fear and disgust. Clinton was the renegade and backslider who once, long ago (how long ago, nobody quite remembered), had been one of the leading figures of the Party, almost on a level with Goldwater himself, and then had engaged in counter-revolutionary activities, had been condemned to death, and had mysteriously escaped and disappeared. The programmes of the Two Minutes Hate varied from day to day, but there was none in which Hillary was not the principal figure…

posted by srboisvert at 7:43 PM on November 2, 2017 [29 favorites]


We're witnessing the unfolding of the biggest scandal in American history, and you guys won't stop talking about fucking Bernie!

Ralph Nadar says hi.
posted by srboisvert at 7:47 PM on November 2, 2017 [9 favorites]


it me
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 7:50 PM on November 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


The programmes of the Two Minutes Hate varied from day to day, but there was none in which Hillary was not the principal figure…

Heh. This has been going over and over in my mind all day. All month, really.
posted by Brak at 7:52 PM on November 2, 2017 [5 favorites]


OTHER COUNTRIES: WE'RE SO SORRY. Please ignore him as best you can. We appreciate this is a difficult position to hold for very long. We are working hard to address these concerns. Your country is important to us. Your current estimated wait time is: 1174 days, six minutes
posted by petebest at 7:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [49 favorites]


Too...much...news... WaPo, Karen DeYoung, U.S. asked French to broker Trump-Rouhani discussion, but Iranian president said no
Just hours after President Trump finished calling Iran a “murderous regime” in his Sept. 19 speech at the United Nations, the administration asked French President Emmanuel Macron for a favor. Would Macron inquire whether Iranian President Hassan Rouhani was interested in speaking directly with Trump?

All three leaders were in New York for the U.N. General Assembly, as was Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who conveyed the request to Macron, according to several administration and foreign officials.

Iran’s response, later that afternoon, was an unequivocal no. The Iranians, the French reported, “don’t believe you’re serious” and thought it was some kind of trick, a senior administration official said.
What was the grand master plan here exactly?
Asked why Trump wanted to meet with Rouhani, the official said it was “in order to say, ‘Here’s all the mean stuff you do in the world, and we want you to stop. . . . If not, you should know we’re working on a strategy to get you to confront all of this.’ ”

The primary message, the official said, was that “the golden Obama-era window of rapprochement is over.” This official and others spoke only on the condition of anonymity to discuss the diplomatic exchanges.
I can see why Rouhani wouldn't take a meeting just to be told by Trump to knock it off with the "mean stuff." Why did they think this would be an effective tactic?
posted by zachlipton at 7:54 PM on November 2, 2017 [26 favorites]


Posting this in case it is helpful to someone regarding the Fox News information bubble: there is sort-of a method for reaching people inside an information bubble. Steve Hassan, who is an expert on "undue influence", uses what he calls the Strategic Interactive Approach and teaches it to families who want to help cult members.

I'm worried about all the mefites in the US and this is the only thing I know of that might make a little contribution to making things better.

Disclaimers galore:
- there are similarities between cults and information bubbles but they are not the same thing at all;
- it requires a lot of time and energy, so stick to doing this with people you care about;
- it requires one-on-one discussion so is not suited to blasting messages on social media;
- there is no obligation for people who are being oppressed to do this kind of work, I'm purely sharing this just for people who are concerned about a loved one or friend and think this could be relevant to their needs.

Method:
1. Chat with the person about non-controversial topics, like "remember that time when we had fun doing a thing?". The goal is to reconnect with them outside of political stuff: hobbies, shared friends and family, silly jokes or whatever. Lean heavily on past good times, and remind them of their values by telling stories that reflect what you like most about them.

2. When you've reestablished a pleasant relationship with them, chat with them about their goals and dreams for the future. Travel? Home renovation? Grandkids? Be supportive and enthusiastic, share your own dreams, etc. Get them thinking about the future.

3. Gradually... very gradually... introduce news items about the present from just outside their bubble. Whichever of the mainstream media they hate the least. Or factual, evidenced-based stuff about current events from anywhere that doesn't trigger any "lamestream media" reactions. Only choose items which could reasonably have an impact on their goals for the future, and introduce it as a question, not a statement. e.g. "Hey, I know you want that border wall, but I saw this article about how Mexico isn't keen on it. Will that affect your dream trip through South America?" The goal is to get them to compare what they support politically with what they actually want for themselves in their lives. Let them respond to the questions in their own way. Don't turn it into an argument, turn it to your concern that they might not be able to follow their dreams. End the conversation if it heads into rants about the media or politics, e.g "oh I don't know about all that stuff, I was just worried you wouldn't get your holiday, cool, let's chat later, bye".

4. After a bunch of this, for what seems like an endless amount of biting your tongue, you're going to keep biting your tongue and gently ask something like "I'm worried that your current situation is not matching up to what you always wanted. Do you feel like maybe there's more out there?" And then listen without judging. The goal is still to get them to start thinking for themselves instead of just parroting what they hear from Fox or Rush. Telling them facts does nothing; replacing their dependence on the bubble with dependence on you is not the goal. Help them discover facts for themselves instead of accepting spoon-fed outrage.

5. Cross your fingers and hope that having proved that you genuinely care about them, and given them support and help as they use parts of their brain which are out of practice, they are more willing to listen to you and your sources.

I am almost certainly writing this up without doing justice to the nuance of the process. Hassan's book has way more detail and examples, but also is focused on extracting people from cults. But maybe the past-future-comparison-encouragement-information process will be helpful to some of you.
posted by harriet vane at 8:00 PM on November 2, 2017 [93 favorites]


Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam: "Friendly reminder: Election Day is next Tuesday, November 7th. And it's not just the high-profile Senate/House/Governor elections that we've been reading about in these threads (thanks Chrysostom!). Municipal, county, and state positions are probably up for grabs where you live."

Hey, so my plan is to put up an Election Day thread with as much relevant info as I can find. So that's mostly going to be the biggies (VA gov, VA HOD, NJ gov) obviously, but I'll try to run down what I can for the lower level stuff. I'll put in who I follow on Twitter for up to the minute results.

I figure that as much as possible, live results and such should be corralled there, so we don't blow out the current politics thread. Then we can chew over the results when they're in here.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:02 PM on November 2, 2017 [33 favorites]


> According to the Twitter audit report, Donald Trump had 20 million real and 20 million fake followers before the "deactivation". Now he has 36 million real and 5 million fake. Something really fucking sketchy happened when his account was "deactivated". Don't trust anything coming out of anyone working for Twitter.

Cite? I see the current numbers in that link, but not the previous numbers you mentioned. Edit: My bad, my adblocker was blocking the graphs.
posted by christopherious at 8:21 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Warren: Let me be clear: If Trump doesn’t keep his word & Congress doesn’t pass a clean Dream Act, I won’t vote for a spending bill without it.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:26 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


If they want to end estate taxes so badly, then maybe we could compromise on the purge version in which no estate taxes are paid for deaths that (a) occur inside the U.S. between 9am and 10am on Thanksgiving Day and for which (b) no preexisting medical conditions indicated a significant risk of death, any reason for medically assisted suicide, or any psychological conditions like depression. ;)
posted by jeffburdges at 8:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


According to the Twitter audit report, Donald Trump had 20 million real and 20 million fake followers before the "deactivation". Now he has 36 million real and 5 million fake. Something really fucking sketchy happened when his account was "deactivated".

I got the confirming results when I tried it. Fishy.
posted by bongo_x at 8:34 PM on November 2, 2017


wait wait wait are you saying you think Twitter staged this "oops someone dropped 45 but we got it back!" and then during the 11 minutes it was dropped changed the follower stats? To what purpose? Why would designating his followers as real or fake require shutting down his account for 11 minutes...? Hope me, tech types, I am not techy enough to see what the benefits are here.
posted by emjaybee at 8:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


I hate voting.

It's so much work. I've got to look up all the candidates, compare their positions to my own, and decide between each one on scant, sometimes absent information. I've got to try to figure out what part of each side of each issue is pure propaganda, and what the facts actually are. I've got to find reliable sources for information about every little bubble I fill in, and evaluate that information carefully.

And then there are the moral dilemmas. I love the zoo, I support the zoo, I want the zoo to succeed. But a half-cent sales tax to support a luxury goes against every fiscal instinct I have. I voted for the school bonds, no problem; as a homeowner, hell yes I want to pay for an educated populace. Property taxes I'm good with. But sales taxes are regressive, and a perpetual sales tax to support a luxury, no matter how much I like it personally... I voted no.

My point is, Republicans don't have these problems. Their party tells them how to vote. Every issue is clear-cut, the sources of information are all in agreement, the candidates have a little R after their names. Just going through the packet of information, it's clear how Republicans are expected to vote.

Now, I take this seriously, and I don't resent the time I spend on voting, though when I get down into the judiciary section sometimes I start twitching. But not everyone wants to do this, not everyone can do this, and not everyone is really good at this.

Is there any reason there's not a "How The Democratic Party Suggests You Vote In Every Single Election Ever" site online where I can put in my zipcode, and see endorsements? Here's a nice printable checklist. Have a nice day.

I mean, yes, it would be great if everyone put the work in individually. But it's a complex process, and people are busy, and not everyone is good at it. Especially since certain parties take pains to confuse issues as much as possible. There are huge gains to be made in the area of low-effort voters. Let's make it as easy as possible to vote like a Democrat.
posted by MrVisible at 8:51 PM on November 2, 2017 [14 favorites]


I can't speak for your area, but our Democratic Party sends us mailers telling who they recommend voting for.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:53 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


>I can't speak for your area, but our Democratic Party sends us mailers telling who they recommend voting for.

Nope. As a registered Democrat, I got two big thick booklets describing the races in minute, impenetrable detail. 160 pages total. Nothing from the party. I'm in Tucson, Arizona.

And those mailers don't reach people registered as independents if they do go out.

A national site with simple endorsements by zip code seems like a huge project, but could pick up a lot of voters.
posted by MrVisible at 9:00 PM on November 2, 2017 [7 favorites]


Half this thread was bitching about the DNC playing favorites, now we want them to tell us how to vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:06 PM on November 2, 2017 [37 favorites]


you can't be Attorney General if you're not, you know, an attorney.

That isn't technically true as far as I can tell.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [4 favorites]


Well this guy at Guantanamo is both an attorney and a general, he sounds damn principled in the face of adversity, dedicated to legal ethics, and he's got nothing going on for the next 21 days. And we know how Trump loves generals. Sounds like a win.
posted by zachlipton at 9:11 PM on November 2, 2017 [10 favorites]


Let me clarify; in the primaries, the DNC should remain neutral. In general elections, hell yes they should make their endorsements clear and easy to access.
posted by MrVisible at 9:11 PM on November 2, 2017 [8 favorites]




ELECTIONS NEWS

** VA gov -- Suffolk poll has Northam up 47-43. The last Suffolk poll, btw was two weeks earlier and had them tied at 42.

The simple poll average is now Northam +3.6. If we say let's just look at October on, and let's throw out the outliers both ways (that one WP, the Quinnipiac, the Hampton one), we get...Northam +4. And if you look at the polling spread, it's been hanging around 3-4 since beginning of September.

So, yes, I'm nervous, too. And I think Northam has made mistakes in his campaign. But I still think Northam wins by about 2 points or so. If YOU are nervous, please phone bank or (if in VA) canvass!

** 2018 House:
-- Mentioned earlier, Lamar Smith of TX-21 is not running for re-election. This is definitely a reach for Dems, but a) the district is trending left (Romney 60-38, but Trump 52-42), and b) there's a Dem challenger with a good bio and off to a good start with fundraising. With it being an open seat, it's not out of the question. Also, Smith is an active denier of climate change who chairs the House Science Committee; he will not be missed.

-- GOP retirements continue to track well ahead of 2008's pace (a Dem wave year).
** Odds & ends:
-- Contest Every Race Dept. - The South Dakota Democratic Party says it intends to have a candidate for every legislative race in 2018, for the first time in decades.

-- Sabato looks at all of the big trends for next Tuesday races.

-- NYT: VA HOD outcome a predictor for 2018 House.

-- Looks like a court will be going ahead and having a special master redraw the North Carolina legislative maps after numerous attempts at gerrymandering in violation of court orders by the legislature. Outside analysis is that a neutral map would likely give the Dems enough seats to sustain vetoes by Dem Gov Cooper.

-- One of the main non-election ballot items next week is a possible constitutional convention for New York (they have this vote every 20 years). Although the NY constitution is arguably a mess, the convention would pick delegates by the super-gerrymandered state senate districts, and is probably a bad idea. Perhpas fortunately, a Siena poll shows it failing to be called, 57-25.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:23 PM on November 2, 2017 [62 favorites]


Chrysostom I appreciate the updates immensely.

On the NYS constitutional convention vote I think your characterization is a bit uncharitable - delegates would be chosen via the same gerrymandered state senate districts that screw us with the non-caucusing IDC but there is also an allotment (15?) of at large state wide delegates. I think that the wishful thinking is that in 2018 when folks turn out in a progressive wave in the city they will overwhelm up stage and suburban republicans and take enough of the at large slots to ensure a progressive majority in the convention.

As a final fail-safe, any regressive amendments potentially proposed during the convention (an amendment making NY a right to work state, or reducing/eliminating the existing forever wild environmental protections) would still need to be approved by 51% of NYS voters. If we don't trust our fellow New Yorkers to not screw ourselves im not sure what the implications are for our democracy.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:31 PM on November 2, 2017


If you're in Virginia, I seriously have one day left in which I can get you in touch with where you can go to turn out the vote.

Please memail me. I can't do anything about the ads, but I can do something about turnout. And if you're in Virginia, so can you. Hit me up, guys. We can do this.
posted by dogheart at 9:41 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]




That's fair, Exceptional_Hubris, I was perhaps overly concise. I still feel the preferable way would be to elect better people and drive change from the legislature. It sounds like there is a good deal of effort to turf out a few of these IDC people, which would work wonders.

And yes, it's 15 at large delegates out of 204 total.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:59 PM on November 2, 2017


Dogheart, thank you for your relentless work in VA. I did 100 postcards for VA, and my contact with the org said that 22 Mefites reached out to help and 18 completed their assignments, which I thought was a good completion ratio. I would have done more, but I've been trying to heal my tendinitis. I've also done some texting work in VA, too, and if anyone is interested in texting, I can give info. It's *really* easy. Most of the messages are canned, and you only need to click on the right ones. You can get through 100 in 10 minutes or so, with maybe another 10-15 minutes of follow up for those with questions. All from your computer, no actual phone texting. Memail me if you'd like more info.
posted by greermahoney at 10:08 PM on November 2, 2017 [16 favorites]


Thanks so much, Chrysostrom, for adding a tidbit about the NYS ConCon to your ELECTIONS NEWS extravaganza. It's very confusing to some people to have Trump lovers AND the pinko union folks on your Facebook calling for a no vote on ConCon, but that is what I shall be doing.
posted by xyzzy at 10:10 PM on November 2, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump on the diversity visa lottery:
It's just common sense, these countries aren't giving us their finest people. So when they put them in the lottery, if they even do a fair lottery, they probably don't do that they probably just hand us people that they don't want like this character, this animal, this horror show that just came in and did this horrible damage [in New York].
We conduct the diversity visa lottery, not foreign countries (and criminal history will disqualify you). If he thinks it's rigged, he should talk to his Secretary of State. I know he says a lot of stupid things, but this is pretty stupid.
posted by zachlipton at 10:17 PM on November 2, 2017 [92 favorites]


he thinks a visa lottery is literally countries sticking their people in a lottery to come to the US... words fail me
posted by Emily's Fist at 10:19 PM on November 2, 2017 [19 favorites]


Sometimes I get the feeling that Trump isn't very smart.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 10:24 PM on November 2, 2017 [72 favorites]


If the countries put people in the lottery that they wanted to get rid of, for some countries, it WOULD be the best people.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:24 PM on November 2, 2017 [12 favorites]


The League of Women Voters can guide you on how to vote; you can find a local league here.

From Wikipedia:

"The League of Women Voters is officially nonpartisan, though it supports a variety of progressive public policy positions, including campaign finance reform, universal health care, abortion rights, climate change action and environmental regulation, and gun control.[4][5]"
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:32 PM on November 2, 2017 [17 favorites]


This is exactly the note to go to bed on: giggling about the idiocy of the visa lottery comment. See you all tomorrow.
posted by Brak at 10:33 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump, who is the president of the United States of America, apparently thinks that you go down to the Uzbekistan equivalent of a 7/11 and buy a roll of visa lottery scratchers and then you wind up in America if you get three cherries.

I feel sorry for him, if only he had, you know, an entire wing of the government who could answer super basic questions about immigration for him. Or if only he had access to a smartphone and could type the words "visa lottery" into google. Or if only he could turn his head a fraction to the right and ask literally anyone around him "Hey how does that visa lottery work?"

Tragically Trump has none of these things, he is alone floating in a formless void, mouthing nonsense, and he must conjure whatever answer he can from the fetid fever-swamp that passes for his mind, completely extemporaneously.
posted by supercrayon at 10:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [90 favorites]


Sooooooooo this entire time literally any random Twitter support person has had access to the fucking President's account. This techbro shit has to stop.

To be fair, we don't know if the POTUS45 account has special controls. RealDonaldTrump is technically just another verified user; that account has no special privileges or security.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:42 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]


A report on the causes of the collision involving the U.S.S. McCain is out.

Short version: mistakes by the people at the Navy ship's controls appear to have resulted in escalating confusion that wasn't resolved quickly enough as it began to swerve into the freighter's path. So not mechanical failure or other problems with the ship's systems. (Except insofar as the controls could be better-designed.)

If the countries put people in the lottery that they wanted to get rid of, for some countries, it WOULD be the best people.

Historical note: ostracism, a procedure by which the citizens (non-"foreigner" non-slave men) of Classical Athens could vote that a person be exiled from the city for ten years, though only a single person could be exiled this way each year at most.
posted by XMLicious at 10:49 PM on November 2, 2017 [2 favorites]



Why would he decline to comment? He comments on every other goddamn topic. That doesn't make any sense. Nothing makes any sense.
Andy Richter‏ @AndyRichter

How does Carter Page function on a day to day basis? Because I worry about his ability to find food
11:34 PM - 30 Oct 2017
Owen Ellickson‏ @onlxn Oct 30 Replying to @AndyRichter

every meal is a triumph
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:26 AM on November 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


Thanks for the ear worm, by the way, lalex. Every time I look at this thread, that song starts up again.
posted by Grangousier at 2:32 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


>The League of Women Voters can guide you on how to vote; you can find a local league here.

I'm not looking for someone to help me vote; I'm just saying that if it was easier, more people would vote. As in, go to an official page, put in your zipcode, and get a list of all the races on your ballot and how you're advised to vote if you're a Democrat.

The site you sent me to has links where I can email the local chapters, but no information on how to vote.

If we can get voter turnout up, we tend to win. People don't care enough to vote in midterm or special elections; maybe if they didn't have to put in so much work to vote on issues they don't care about, they'd turn out. Having a convenient tool to make voting Democratic easier seems like it would be worth looking into.

I mean, the whole point of political campaigns is to convince people to vote your way. Why do we make it hard to find out what that means when it comes time to actually vote?
posted by MrVisible at 2:40 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


The Japan leg of the Trump family trap Asia trip has begun to Papa-thumping levels of adoration and acclaim. Empty seats greet Ivanka Trump at women's empowerment speech in Tokyo. (Graunian)
“Truth be told, on Sunday nights, after a messy and wonderful weekend with my children, I am far more exhausted than on Friday evenings, after a long week of work at the office,” she said at the venue, where those rows of empty seats brought to mind the large gaps in the crowd at her father’s inauguration in January.
posted by michswiss at 2:49 AM on November 3, 2017 [36 favorites]


Folks, I just checked personally, and there is no party in the street in front of Twitter's headquarters in honor of this ex-employee. Not one person dancing. No fireworks. Nothing. This is not right.

Be the change you want to see in the world. We are the people we've been waiting for.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:13 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


According to the Twitter audit report, Donald Trump had 20 million real and 20 million fake followers before the "deactivation". Now he has 36 million real and 5 million fake. Something really fucking sketchy happened when his account was "deactivated". Don't trust anything coming out of anyone working for Twitter.

This morning it's down to 31M real and 10.6M fake. It's possible that twitteraudit's algorithm is simply in the process of reauditing the account and that that takes time.
posted by Room 101 at 4:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [25 favorites]


That ex-employee tried to stop this but unfortunately Trump is tweeting again. Thank you, unknown Hero, your sacrifice will not be forgotten. Perhaps others will be inspired by your example.

Twitler is calling for the FBI and Justice Department to investigate Clinton and the Democrats.

Maybe one of the countries he is visiting soon could refuse to return him? Please?
posted by Justinian at 4:50 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Twitler is calling for the FBI and Justice Department to investigate Clinton and the Democrats.

You know, on the way home the day the indictments dropped, I tuned the radio to the Rush Limbaugh show, and he was winding up his pivot to HRC about Uranium 1, then when Hannity started, it took him about 2 minutes to pivot to HRC.

I am encouraged that in their collective impotent rage, that's all they got. And seeing Trump's brain literally stuck in

10 print "But HILLARY!";
20 goto 10;


is warming my heart on a cold, rainy autumn day.
posted by mikelieman at 4:57 AM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Yeah, the Democratic Party where I live gives me pretty detailed directions, but then they control my city.
posted by Peach at 4:58 AM on November 3, 2017


The simple fact that Twitter and Facebook are discussed as viable, important, even indispensable components of political life is just one important part of my daily dystopic projectile barfing.

It takes email and, like, puts it on a phone, essentially. Baaaaagh. These are not very entrenched corporate blowtorches supported by Monsanto, and Your Local Ford Dealer; these can be dispensed with at the click of a (phone) button.

Anyway, what time does Wheels Up Scoops Week start? Happy Facepalm Friday everyone! (Palm Sunday wasn't catching on with the 18-24's, so)
posted by petebest at 5:01 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


MrVisible: Re not knowing how to vote on every single item versus getting people out to vote, remember that you can totally leave any item blank that you want on a ballot. If you're gung-ho to vote for a candidate for governor, but have no clue what the relative merits of allowing ice fishing in some remote corner of the state are, check your box for governor and turn in your ballot.

I don't mean to brush off the democratic process here—I feel uninformed and unsatisfied every time I leave something blank—but I'd rather do that than to risk voting the wrong way, or forfeit my right to vote for what's the most important to me. It's not a perfect solution, but the alternatives are worse.

TL;DR: Get out the vote, do your best, blank boxes are OK.
posted by Rykey at 5:07 AM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


I think wheels up starts when AF1 departs Hawaii for Japan. Twitter rumors are that Flynn is perp walking today.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:07 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


A carefully curated set of Twitter lists means that on my "Politics" list I get quick access to the opinions and passed-on information of people who have shown me I can rely on them (if not to be always even handed) to prefer facts. Many are journalists; some are politicians, others represent organizations, and a few are unaffiliated individuals who have given themselves the mission of finding and sharing news. Falsehoods get debunked fast in that list. It took a while to assemble, I will admit, and I am still pruning because sometimes people go off the rails. But I never look at my unfiltered Twitter feed because it's insane.
posted by Peach at 5:08 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Actually, given T’s obsession with people liking him, I’m kind of worried now for the Twitter employee’s safety.
posted by Melismata at 5:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Actually, given T’s obsession with people liking him, I’m kind of worried now for the Twitter employee’s safety.
He seems to be taking it as a good reason to attack social media. His attacks tend to benefit the person attacked in the long run. In the short run, I hope they don't give out the employee's name.
posted by Peach at 5:21 AM on November 3, 2017


is there a german word for the happiness you get from receiving confirmation that the situation is fucked up as you think it is?

cuz i been feeling that all week
posted by murphy slaw at 5:30 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


In an Official White House Statement, our Commander in Chief and holder of the office formerly occupied by the Leader of the Free World said:

@realDonaldTrump
Pocahontas just stated that the Democrats, lead by the legendary Crooked Hillary Clinton, rigged the Primaries! Lets go FBI & Justice Dept.
4:55 AM - 3 Nov 2017
posted by Floydd at 5:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Here's the itinerary for the trip, starting with a stop in Hawaii tomorrow before heading to Japan. Early prediction: it gon b nuts

I'm really hoping there's another glowing orb to touch on this trip. Please make it happen Japan.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 5:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


is he conflating elizabeth warren and donna brazille or did warren make a statement?
posted by murphy slaw at 5:41 AM on November 3, 2017


Warren. Scroll up (keep scrolling) or check the other thread.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:43 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


This morning it's down to 31M real and 10.6M fake. It's possible that twitteraudit's algorithm is simply in the process of reauditing the account and that that takes time.

This was my thought as well. I don't know how twitteraudit works, but I know how similar problems get solved. Removing and re-adding Trump's account as a node in the social graph would screw everything up, no matter what metrics they use to determine "fakeness" of an account. 40 million of anything is going to take a bit of time to process, especially with Twitter's API limits.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:46 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


In the short run, I hope they don't give out the employee's name.

At the rate things are going, some MAGA-loving co-worker could out him anyway.

But maybe this will open the door for other employees elsewhere to do little things like this? Like maybe someone at the IRS who has access to his tax returns? Maybe maybe?
posted by Melismata at 5:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Pocahontas just stated that the Democrats, lead by the legendary Crooked Hillary Clinton, rigged the Primaries! Lets go FBI & Justice Dept.


Cool. Cool. So we can expect Congresspeople to begin openly referring to him as "Tinydick" in official communications? I mean, why not. There's nobody here anyway.

"Sarah, does Tinydick think Japan is behind global warming?"
"Sarah, when Tinydick and AG Sessions met to discuss his impeachment . . ."
"Hey Tinydick! When are you going home?!"

etc.
posted by petebest at 5:58 AM on November 3, 2017 [44 favorites]


Doesn't talk of "rigging the primaries" also imply that validity/integrity of the entire 2016 elections are in question? Because I'm all game for a do-over. Let's go.
posted by p3t3 at 6:03 AM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


He can't. even. spell. "led".

God damn it I hate that miserable pompous cruel stupid stupid man.
posted by saturday_morning at 6:06 AM on November 3, 2017 [41 favorites]


That Al Franken follow-up letter to Jeff Sessions is a thing of beauty. Highly recommended reading. 8 pages, but make sure you have time to SAVOR every section.

Franken calls Sessions a liar in each of the three sentences of the first paragraph alone, and a perjurer (and implied traitor) in the second to boot.
posted by Gelatin at 6:11 AM on November 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


Here's the full audio & transcript of Trump on WMAL yesterday. 10 minutes of pure head-scratching inanity & insanity.
posted by scalefree at 6:12 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


From yesterday: These idiots do it every time. Write it in secret, and then die death by 1,000 cuts because it gets torched by interest groups. There's a reason why you don't write shit in secret! It keeps it from blowing up in your faces!

The Republicans don't write legislation in secret because they think it'd be popular. If only the professional media would notice that the practice is, or at least used to be, unusual.
posted by Gelatin at 6:15 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Sooooooooo this entire time literally any random Twitter support person has had access to the fucking President's account. This techbro shit has to stop.

The thing is, with computers you pretty much have to have a large degree of trust in your IT personnel. Sure, with properly established role accounts and so on you can limit the amount of trust required, but at the end of the day a sysadmin unavoidably has a tremendous amount of power because they need it to do their jobs.

We have ways to try and mitigate the problem, activity logs so you can know who did what and so on, but of course support team at twitter needs to be able to disable or enable accounts that's core to the entire functioning of a support team.

This problem, BTW, is one reason why IT employees are so often ambush fired. The fear of an IT worker retaliating by wrecking stuff is real enough that most employers, when they need to get rid of an IT employee for absolutely any reason at all, will do so via ambush and have them locked out of the computers when they're on their way to talk to HR. The nicer employers will provide some pay as compensation [1] Even amiable partings, where the IT person says they'd like to retire or move on to a new job tend to be more along the lines of "I'm thinking I should be retiring/quitting in a few months" followed by "Sorry to hear that, here's a month's pay, your account is now closed" from HR.

But as a rule IT can do just about anything and the only thing really stopping them from snooping in your files and email is professional ethics. Good IT people have a well trained reflexive aversion to looking into user's files and other personal stuff. Unfortunately not all IT people are good or professional. Best Buy, for example, had a scandal where it turned out the Geek Squad nationwide had been routinely sniffing around in all computers brought in for repair to find nudes and were sharing them with all other Geek Squad employees across the country. Best Buy claims to have "resolved" the problem. I don't believe them, they hire incompetent and unprofessional kids for crap wages and that means if you bring your computer to Best Buy you can probably count on the Geek Squad person snooping around.

So yes, pretty much anyone working at Twitter support could have disabled Trump's account and doubtless still can. And while its amusing that one of them did, it's also not good for IT as a whole that he did. That sort of crap, like the Geek Squad violations, undermine us professional IT people who take care to do the job right and not snoop or hurt clients.

*********************

On a different note, as someone in the TX-21 district, I can only say I'm absolutely delighted that Lamar fucking Smith isn't running again, and I think his decision to retire speaks well for our chances of flipping the seat. He's not that old for a Congressperson, "only" 69, and unless he's got some dire illness his decision to retire is likely more motivated by fears that even his gerrymandered all to hell district won't get him reelected than any actual desire to retire for normal reasons. He's one of the most powerful Congresspeople in the House right now, he's the chair of or a member of most of the really critical committees, if he's quitting it's because he's afraid he'd be defeated in 2018 or because he's got a fatal disease.

Last election Tom Wakely made a damn fine showing, considering how the district is set up, and the last meeting I was at where he spoke he was planning on trying again in 2018. Wakely vs. a new Republican candidate with no incumbency benefit who likely will be a foaming at the mouth Trumpite is far from an assured win, but it's a vastly better chance than Wakely vs. Smith again.

I'm not going to say we're definitely going to pick up TX-21, but I'm going to be walking my precinct getting all the votes I possibly can rounded up for Wakely (assuming he's the candidate), or whoever wins the Democratic primary. We've got a strong, well organized, Democratic Party in Bexar county, and of course the Travis county [2] Democratic Party is awesome, the rural counties that make up most of the district are a different story of course...

[1] I had a job where my employer decided to switch to an MIS rather than keep me on as an in house tech and was ambush fired once they had the contract signed. They gave me three months pay and insurance to make it easier for me while I was looking for a new job. Not required by law, but nice of them. And they had someone stand over my shoulder and watch while I gave them all admin passwords to make sure I didn't do anything untoward while doing so.

[2] For you non-Texans, there is an Austin county. It's a rural county with a tiny population not particularly close ti the city of Austin. Austin TX is located in Travis county. Confused yet?
posted by sotonohito at 6:19 AM on November 3, 2017 [40 favorites]


Jenna Abrams, Russia’s Clown Troll Princess, Duped the Mainstream Media and the World (Ben Collins & Joseph Cox, Daily Beast)
Roseanne Barr and Michael McFaul argued with her on Twitter. BuzzFeed and The New York Times cited her tweets. But Jenna Abrams was the fictional creation of a Russian troll farm.
Those same users who followed @Jenn_Abrams for her perfect Kim Kardashian jokes would be blasted with her shoddily punctuated ideas on slavery and segregation just one month later.

“To those people, who hate the Confederate flag. Did you know that the flag and the war wasn’t about slavery, it was all about money,” Abrams’ account tweeted in April of last year.

The tweet went viral, earning heaps of ridicule from journalists, historians, and celebrities alike, then calls for support from far-right users coming to her defense.

That was the plan all along.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:25 AM on November 3, 2017 [39 favorites]


MrVisible has valid points about voting, you guys. Don't snuff this out with snark. I agree that it would be nice to have a trusted tool that could tell us BRIEFLY where our best vote should go. Without a fucking dissertation exercise in granular detail we don't have time or expertise for.

Why can't Democrats do this? That is NOT to say it has to be in language saying VOTE FOR THIS PERSON with no justification whatsoever or room to decide for yourself. Is there not a happy medium?
posted by yoga at 6:40 AM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


I can't find the post, but back in the early megathreads of our current horrortocracy we were discussing the what-ifs of necessary civil disobedience, and the point came up that an IT underground would be one of the most effective ways of resisting - and if you look at how much damage/good (delete as applicable) one person like Snowden can produce, the notion is far from fanciful.

I very much hope this never happens, for a million reasons, unless it not happening is worse.
posted by Devonian at 6:42 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


I agree that it would be nice to have a trusted tool that could tell us BRIEFLY where our best vote should go. Without a fucking dissertation exercise in granular detail we don't have time or expertise for.

Why can't Democrats do this?


Because who gets to represent the “Democratic” opinion in this scenario? Who writes the guide? Who decides how to evaluate candidates, and how to represent their positions? Stated positions, or how they actually vote? What if they routinely say a bunch of things that contradict their stated positions?

How do you determine who to trust?
posted by schadenfrau at 6:49 AM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Pocahontas just stated that the Democrats...


On the one hand, proof that D.Trump is not reading these threads because, dude, mocking someone's name is fucking lame. Giving them a fake name denies their humanity and, thus, demeans your own.

On the other hand, who the hell is he talking about? (and I don't actually want to know, I'm not curious, I put it out there as a simple observation. He's playing to a closed audience.)

It is pretty amazing/impressive/ significant - it is significant that Trump still has his twitter account. Someone, likely many someone's told him to just quit already, and he hasn't. He has seen it as pertinent enough for his ends that he is going to hang on to it. Or that someone else saw as useful in some way. So, who is that and what do they want. I think this might be an important point that should not be underestimated.
posted by From Bklyn at 6:51 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I agree that it would be nice to have a trusted tool that could tell us BRIEFLY where our best vote should go. Without a fucking dissertation exercise in granular detail we don't have time or expertise for.

Why can't Democrats do this?


Isn't this the purpose of primaries and of having the "D" next to someone's name on the ballot? That's not to say that voting is easy or that finding out about candidates' specific positions is easy. But the fact that someone is running as a Democrat, and won a primary as a Democrat, seems to be a good heuristic for "does the Democratic party (at whatever level is relevant for purposes of a particular office) support the election of this person."
posted by melissasaurus at 6:52 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm confused by all this. In the general election, the democrats support the candidate that they nominate. That's it.

Their endorsement is the (D) by the candidate's name.
posted by schmod at 6:52 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


who the hell is he talking about?

"Pochahontas" is Elizabeth Warren; who once made the grievous error of claiming some small percentage of Native American ancestry.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:53 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


MrVisible "got two big thick booklets describing the races in minute, impenetrable detail. 160 pages total." In Arizona, somehow. I would kill for that in Florida. I have to dig and dig and dig to get any notion what to do, particularly with judges. It's terrifying, and I frequently punt and leave the judges blank. I definitely don't want the Democratic equivalent of the creepy this is how the NRA wants you to vote pamphlet the Republicans do. I want the 160 pp of info.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:54 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Pocahontas == Elizabeth Warren
posted by jferg at 6:54 AM on November 3, 2017


Ho-lee shit. This affects all the -ist sites: Chicago, LA, etc.

DNAinfo and Gothamist Are Shut Down After Vote to Unionize (Andy Newman and John Leland, NYT)
A week ago, reporters and editors in the combined newsroom of DNAinfo and Gothamist, two of New York City’s leading digital purveyors of local news, celebrated victory in their vote to join a union.

On Thursday, they lost their jobs, as Joe Ricketts, the billionaire founder of TD Ameritrade who owned the sites, shut them down.

At 5 p.m., a post by Mr. Ricketts went up on the sites announcing the decision. He praised them for reporting “tens of thousands of stories that have informed, impacted and inspired millions of people.” But he added, “DNAinfo is, at the end of the day, a business, and businesses need to be economically successful if they are to endure.”
I had just clicked on an LAist article from my feed. :-(
posted by Room 641-A at 6:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


Abrams, who at one point boasted nearly 70,000 Twitter followers, was featured in articles written by Bustle, U.S. News and World Report, USA Today, several local Fox affiliates, InfoWars, BET, Yahoo Sports, Sky News, IJR, Breitbart, The Washington Post, Mashable, New York Daily News, Quartz, Dallas News, France24, HuffPost, The Daily Caller, The Telegraph, CNN, the BBC, Gizmodo, The Independent, The Daily Dot, The Observer, Business Insider, The National Post, Refinery29, The Times of India, BuzzFeed, The Daily Mail, The New York Times, and, of course, Russia Today and Sputnik.

Lazy journalism, How-To
posted by petebest at 6:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Because who gets to represent the “Democratic” opinion in this scenario? Who writes the guide? Who decides how to evaluate candidates, and how to represent their positions? Stated positions, or how they actually vote? What if they routinely say a bunch of things that contradict their stated positions?

How do you determine who to trust?


This is the heart of the problem, not just for the Democratic party. THIS is what we should be trying to build. Forget the party labels. They should be grouped by Issues.

I don't know the answer. But poking around at things we don't want to look at is the first step.
posted by yoga at 6:57 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


The problem with Democrats offering voting guides is that in a lot of places, the contentious/confusing stuff isn't purely partisan. Sometimes it doesn't even neatly map onto ideological divides.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:01 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


This is the heart of the problem, not just for the Democratic party. THIS is what we should be trying to build. Forget the party labels. They should be grouped by Issues.

This functionally already exists. [The political affiliates of] NARAL and Planned Parenthood endorse and score candidates; NRA endorses and scores candidates; NRDC does the same; labor unions, same; etc for basically every cause or issue.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:06 AM on November 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


One of the newpapers here in Minnesota (the Star Tribune) has a website in even election years (so, presidential races and mid-terms, not the off years like 2017) where you can enter your address and it shows you what will be on your ballot along with links to information they've compiled on every candidate running for each office.

For most offices, I just vote for the Dem but I still like to know a bit about who I'm voting for. It's VERY handy smaller offices, judges, and "non-partisan" offices. You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) at how many weirdos and party hacks try to get elected to things like county water inspector.

I was in the process of looking through this site a few years ago. While Mrs. VTX and I were talking about a ballot measure relating to the schools, we got a knock on our door from one of the candidates running for school board so we asked him what he thought. His brief, thoughtful answer helped us figure out how we wanted to vote (more stuff for schools even if it comes with metal detectors we don't really need) and did a lot to get to us more enthusiastic about voting for him. So, call or e-mail a candidate running for an office that should have an opinion on it and ask them what they think. You might be surprised at just how accessible your government is when you ask.
posted by VTX at 7:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


In partisan races you should feel comfortable just voting for whoever the Democrat is even if you know fuck-all about them but

I agree that it would be nice to have a trusted tool that could tell us BRIEFLY where our best vote should go. Without a fucking dissertation exercise in granular detail we don't have time or expertise for. ... Why can't Democrats do this?

The vast number of nonpartisan elections and ballot propositions makes it impractical, as does the multilayered nature of American parties. There are probably tens of thousands of elections this year alone. And who decides what the party position is for a nonpartisan race for county coroner? The county party? The state party, which might not get along with the county party?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Minnesota Secretary of State's office has a "what's on my ballot?" tool that is updated for all elections, even the off years, with links to all the candidates including websites and Q&As if they have been provided. Maybe the other 49 have something similar?
posted by Flannery Culp at 7:18 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Pocahontas == Elizabeth Warren

Someone should ask Jack and Biz about the ins and outs of wether that constitutes a racial slur.
posted by Artw at 7:18 AM on November 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


Republicans now demanding that Mueller recuse himself from the Russia probe...because uranium.

[real]
posted by saturday_morning at 7:19 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Who's on the ballot: NYC
posted by zarq at 7:23 AM on November 3, 2017


This functionally already exists. [The political affiliates of] NARAL and Planned Parenthood endorse and score candidates; NRA endorses and scores candidates; NRDC does the same; labor unions, same; etc for basically every cause or issue.

So just need to aggregate them? Sweet. Who's got that?
posted by petebest at 7:23 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm confused by all this. In the general election, the democrats support the candidate that they nominate. That's it.

Their endorsement is the (D) by the candidate's name.

Those of us who live in deep red areas don't always have a D option on a ballot. Sometimes I have a choice between more than one R.
posted by jaruwaan at 7:25 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


The ballot link is informative. Who knew that New York City has "Stop de Blasio" and "Dump the Mayor" political parties?

Gotta wonder if the "Dump the Mayor" candidate is gonna switch to a different party on the slim-to-none chance he gets elected.
posted by zarq at 7:28 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


So just need to aggregate them? Sweet. Who's got that?
When I was in grad school, I did an annual voting guide for my friends which basically explained issues and aggregated endorsements. It took a lot of research, but it was helpful to me and I think to some other people. If you're looking for a thing to do, I would consider doing this for your social circle.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:31 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Republicans now demanding that Mueller recuse himself from the Russia probe...because uranium.

A conflict of interest between a deal he wasn't involved in and an investigation he isn't tasked with. A year ago I'd have scoffed at the notion this might gain any traction.
posted by solotoro at 7:31 AM on November 3, 2017 [28 favorites]


I find this stirring up of shit regarding the need to investigate HRC deeply upsetting. I don't know how Nixon was dealing with his downfall; maybe he did the same thing about McGovern or something.
posted by angrycat at 7:35 AM on November 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


Oh, I'm not panicking. Mueller isn't dumb or cowardly enough to step out just because congresscritters make noise. I'm just in awe of the crazy involved here.
posted by saturday_morning at 7:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


AHEM Broken Record Edition

Take a break from the latest bright shiny thing and GOTV in Northern Virginia. Call Uma the field organizer for the Centreville VA area at 571-732-0767 (mods she ok'd posting this phone number - it's google voice). It is a splendid weekend to knock doors for the Democrats.

Spend the weekend on your feet instead of on social media. The voting booth is the real poll.
posted by jointhedance at 7:41 AM on November 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


It's fascinating how they think a legal investigation is like a startup tech company: remove the guy in charge, and the whole thing will collapse.

Mueller may well be the most skilled guy available to do this job, but he's hardly the only prosecutor capable of putting the evidence together. And whoever replaces him - even if that's "the assistant who's been bringing him coffee" - is likely to be able to pick up exactly where he left off, because (sigh) Mueller is competent, and would have plenty of documentation of exactly what and why he's doing things.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 7:42 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


If we could somehow harness the energy of the crazy, we’d never need to use fossil fuels again.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:43 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


MrVisible has valid points about voting, you guys. Don't snuff this out with snark.

No snark intended on my part. I hate not knowing more about what and who are on my ballots. I was just pointing out that in terms of getting out the vote, people should be encouraged to come out and vote for whatever motivates them, because any portion of a ballot can be left blank.
posted by Rykey at 7:44 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I just had to back away from an argument on the chat for a word game I play online, usually quite relaxing, because a user was saying, in the same fucking breath, that we liberals need to respect Trump because he's the president and it's our job to teach our children to not be hateful like Trump, so we can all get along.

I am so angry my stomach hurts. They SEE that Trump is despicable, of course they do, but to have that be our responsibility to correct is... I don't know. I thought I had plumbed the depths of my evens.
posted by lydhre at 7:44 AM on November 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


Oh this should’ve been in the roundup before, but if your flavor of activism is more mutual aide, the Bronx/Uptown Manhattan DSA will be doing Community Garden Stewardship next Friday the 11th in Harlem
posted by The Whelk at 7:47 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't know how Nixon was dealing with his downfall; maybe he did the same thing about McGovern or something.

Well, first he got people to break in to the psychiatrist's office of the guy who leaked the Pentagon papers; then he got the same folks to break in to the Watergate hotel complex, where the Democratic National Committee headquarters was located.
posted by Melismata at 7:47 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


So...not well.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:52 AM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


Okay, there's been a lot of feedback on this idea since I passed out. Let's see...

TL;DR: Get out the vote, do your best, blank boxes are OK.

But surely there are blank boxes that the Democratic party would rather have people fill in, thus making the whole country head in a more Democratic direction. If they told people how they'd like to see the boxes filled in, they'd get more Democratic votes.


Isn't this the purpose of primaries and of having the "D" next to someone's name on the ballot?

Sure. But the issues on the ballet don't have letters next to them, the judges don't, and some of the politicians don't. Sometimes, I have to choose between two Ds. Everything should be as easy as filling in the bubble next to the D.


MrVisible "got two big thick booklets describing the races in minute, impenetrable detail. 160 pages total." In Arizona, somehow. I would kill for that in Florida. I have to dig and dig and dig to get any notion what to do, particularly with judges. It's terrifying, and I frequently punt and leave the judges blank. I definitely don't want the Democratic equivalent of the creepy this is how the NRA wants you to vote pamphlet the Republicans do. I want the 160 pp of info.

Unfortunately, it's mostly useless. Having the text of the bills themselves is great, of course. But most of the book is dedicated to arguments for and against propositions, by random lobbying groups and citizens. Which means the information in the book is as polarized as possible, and its reliability is unverifiable. I'll read it every time for the laughs, but I go online for actual analysis.


The vast number of nonpartisan elections and ballot propositions makes it impractical, as does the multilayered nature of American parties. There are probably tens of thousands of elections this year alone. And who decides what the party position is for a nonpartisan race for county coroner? The county party? The state party, which might not get along with the county party?

I want the Democratic party to lead us to victory in 2020. In order to do that, they're going to have to lead. Which means organizing your forces, getting your resources together, and figuring out how to act effectively and productively.

I think figuring out how they want people to vote, and then communicating that effectively, would be a big step in that direction.
posted by MrVisible at 7:53 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


whoever replaces him - even if that's "the assistant who's been bringing him coffee" - is likely to be able to pick up exactly where he left off, because (sigh) Mueller is competent, and would have plenty of documentation of exactly what and why he's doing things.

Sadly, any notes or progress made by Mueller won't matter if he's replaced by someone who's loyal to Trump and will work to derail or throw chaff at the investigation. (I don't know who, I'm just saying that's the danger.)
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:53 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


If we could somehow harness the energy of the crazy, we’d never need to use fossil fuels again.
If that were possible, the Koch brothers would abandon support for them immediately.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:54 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


MrVisible has valid points about voting, you guys. Don't snuff this out with snark. I agree that it would be nice to have a trusted tool that could tell us BRIEFLY where our best vote should go. Without a fucking dissertation exercise in granular detail we don't have time or expertise for.

Why can't Democrats do this? That is NOT to say it has to be in language saying VOTE FOR THIS PERSON with no justification whatsoever or room to decide for yourself. Is there not a happy medium?


I really don't want to quash enthusiasm, but this is seriously just like that person who makes it 3 weeks into ECON101 and suddenly has all these Ideas like nobody has ever thought of them. Sample ballots are a thing. That PDF is the 2014 one for my area. If your local democrats aren't putting one out they may need bodies to do it. Maybe that should be you.

But can we also not pretend this is some trivial thing? Consider:

This functionally already exists. [The political affiliates of] NARAL and Planned Parenthood endorse and score candidates; NRA endorses and scores candidates; NRDC does the same; labor unions, same; etc for basically every cause or issue.

So just need to aggregate them? Sweet. Who's got that?


So do you mean you want to just add em up and put a single suggestion? How do you cope with conflicts if PP decides to endorse an (I) because the (D) is shitty on repro rights? When an org refuses to endorse anyone because they're all shit on their issue? Just pretend there's no input there or do you put a *?

Or do you mean you want a table with all the items? Because then you're running up against the very quotes in here about big impenetrable tables of shit.

And as someone who deals with data from disparate sources, the phrase "just need to aggregate them" is enough to make me sprain my eyes from how hard they roll. Aggregation is time-consuming. Earlier this year in a previous post I shared some stuff from some open data people who were trying to get precinct-level 2016 voting information from various cruddy word and pdf docs into actual machine readable data so folks could crunch it for analysis.

That's a case where the data came from government run groups who legally cover a set area of the country and who are mandated to publish in some form. You can know for sure whether you have gotten every single one that exists and they will for certain have made their information available in some way somewhere. And it still took a big crowdsourcing effort to get it done from a single election without a hard and fast deadline of VOTING OPENS ON X bearing down on them.

I'm not saying it's not worth doing, but when you look at something like this and think "man why isn't this worthwhile and trivial thing done???" you seriously need to consider whether it's really as trivial as you're thinking. And if your reaction here is "well then some little group right here should do it" you need to remember
  • Maybe they are and you just aren't seeing it because they're a little group
  • that little group can absolutely be you
posted by phearlez at 7:54 AM on November 3, 2017 [40 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: ISIS just claimed the Degenerate Animal who killed, and so badly wounded, the wonderful people on the West Side, was "their soldier." .....
...Based on that, the Military has hit ISIS "much harder" over the last two days. They will pay a big price for every attack on us!


DARPA must have developed retroactive causality
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:57 AM on November 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


I want the Democratic party to lead us to victory in 2020. In order to do that, they're going to have to lead. Which means organizing your forces, getting your resources together, and figuring out how to act effectively and productively.

We (for some values of we) are the Democratic party. The Democratic Party is just people. It's not someone else's forces, someone else's resources, someone else leading. Yeah, some people are tasked with political fundraising and organizing and campaigning as their full-time job that they get paid to do. But it's not solely on their shoulders. We all have to do the work. We are the ones we've been waiting for.
posted by melissasaurus at 7:59 AM on November 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


Yeah, 'cause the military--oh, sorry, the Military--had been going light on ISIS of late. Really slacking off.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:59 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think there's a pretty good chance that Trump will fire Mueller. We all need to have contingency plans for mass protests if that happens. It's worth thinking about how you'll find out where they'll be, how you'll get there, whether you need someone to look after your kids (or will you bring them, knowing that there could be violence.) If you can't protest, can you provide support for people who can?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:59 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


Tax proposals on the table would gut the postgraduate research economy. Article in The Chronicle

"Middle-income students, too, would feel the impact of the House bill, which proposes eliminating the Hope Scholarship Tax Credit, worth up to $1,500, and the Lifetime Learning Credit"

"This bill would increase the cost to students of attending college by more than $65 billion between 2018 and 2027," Mr. Mitchell said in a written statement. "This is not in America’s national interest."
posted by stonepharisee at 7:59 AM on November 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


Why are there quote marks around "much harder"? Is he quoting someone? Is it a giant rabbit only he can see?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 7:59 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I omitted the most important quote:

"The plan would also tax the tuition waivers that many graduate students receive when they work as teaching assistants or researchers."
posted by stonepharisee at 8:00 AM on November 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


@readDonaldTrump: Just took off for ceremony @ Pearl Harbor. Will then be heading to Japan, SKorea, China, Vietnam & the Philippines. Will never let you down!

The president* is rickrolling the country. Hah.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:02 AM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump wants to be like Xi Jinping, only whiter. They're attracted to each other, as if by pheromone.
posted by runcifex at 8:03 AM on November 3, 2017


I think there's a pretty good chance that Trump will fire Mueller. We all need to have contingency plans for mass protests if that happens.

MoveOn is on it.
posted by asteria at 8:04 AM on November 3, 2017 [29 favorites]


Yeah, 'cause the military--oh, sorry, the Military--had been going light on ISIS of late. Really slacking off.

Precisely. What were you doing the day before you ordered ISIS to be hit extra hard? Not hitting them extra hard? Such stupid, stupid logic that I can't believe it works on anybody.
posted by Rykey at 8:06 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mueller seems to command a loyalty from competent staff and underlings that Trump does not. Notice how leakproof the investigation has been, and the praise for Mueller from all sides. Contrast that with Trump and his leaking-like-a-sieve organization. I doubt Trump has a fiercely loyal Rose Mary Woods in his office, except maybe Ivanka.

I will worry more if the cries to fire Mueller are taken up by more than just a few Freedom Caucus nutjobs (and of course the nuttiest job of all in the WH). And if any replacement is more Republican lapdog than Mueller loyalist. In any event, firing Mueller isn't this easy-peasy "Make It So!" done deal.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:06 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm not saying it's not worth doing, but when you look at something like this and think "man why isn't this worthwhile and trivial thing done???" you seriously need to consider whether it's really as trivial as you're thinking.

At no point did I suggest this was trivial. It would be enormous.

The question is, would it be worth the effort? We keep cajoling people to vote, and to vote Democratic, but when they sit down with the ballot, they have no way of telling what that actually means. It's like spending billions on an advertising campaign, and then when the customers come in the store to buy your product, you give them a sheaf of paperwork that takes a couple of hours to fill out.

Imagine a nineteen-year-old college student, slightly stoned, in between classes, going through the same process that you went through to vote most recently. Doing all the research, the soul-searching, parsing what was bullshit from lobbyists and what was from reliable sources. It's more of a pain in the ass than half their homework. And yet, we really, really need those votes, and they want us to have them.

Yes, I agree that high-information voters are preferable; I'd love it if people went out and canvassed all the Democratic sources of information and then decided what votes represent their views on the issues best. But in assuming that everyone is that person, we're losing well-intentioned voters who don't, for a variety of reasons, make it through that process.

We (for some values of we) are the Democratic party. The Democratic Party is just people. It's not someone else's forces, someone else's resources, someone else leading. Yeah, some people are tasked with political fundraising and organizing and campaigning as their full-time job that they get paid to do. But it's not solely on their shoulders. We all have to do the work. We are the ones we've been waiting for.

And yet the party has leaders, and headquarters, and massive sources of funding. It seems like working with them would make sense.
posted by MrVisible at 8:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


So, re MrVisibles idea, we have enough IT people, and legal beagles, surely we could create a super pac with the goal of slurping data about races from all available data sources, then do analysis on candidates and issues. Sure, it would take some time before we could get granular enough to do dog catcher level races, with analysis, but it would be pretty simple to sort out left from right in big races and state wide referendums.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:18 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Imagine a nineteen-year-old college student, slightly stoned, in between classes, going through the same process that you went through to vote most recently. Doing all the research, the soul-searching, parsing what was bullshit from lobbyists and what was from reliable sources. It's more of a pain in the ass than half their homework. And yet, we really, really need those votes, and they want us to have them.

Why do you think a slightly stoned 19 year old college student would use a voting guide if one were provided? The biggest impediment to voting is access to polling locations, not confusion as to whether one alderman-at-large might be slightly better than another.

Look, I really honestly respect the idea that we should make it easier on people to understand who and what they are voting for. Sample ballots do this. Support from organizations like NARAL and Planned Parenthood, or HRC, or - conversely - the NRA, do this.

Republican voters pull the lever for the R candidate no matter what. That is what makes them reliable voters. We need to get to the point where we do all the hard parsing and negotiating during the primaries and then go vote for the D candidate no matter what (and, since I'm a liberal and we like to shoot ourselves in the foot, I'm going to add the requisite clause of "unless they are for whatever reason a catastrophic candidate, and even then really think about the fucking alternatives, but you should probably vote for them anyway")

The real fight, the huge fight, the ONLY fight, is getting people to the polls: fighting voter ID laws, fighting limited polling hours and polling locations, fighting the impediments to early voting, fighting gerrymandering, etc. Most of the voters we desperately need want to vote but can't.
posted by lydhre at 8:19 AM on November 3, 2017 [35 favorites]


> And yet the party has leaders, and headquarters, and massive sources of funding. It seems like working with them would make sense.

i'm a newby when it comes to local party politics but i can tell you i've come to think of the party structure as a kind of slot machine: sometimes you pull the lever for the next-rung up and you get a good prize, but most of the time you pull it and you get a bunch of nonsense.

sure it's good when you get the prizes but if you rely on those prizes to sustain you then you will get nowhere. you can "work" with them in as much as they're willing to work with you - which they will, when your interests overlap. but even then it is entirely up to the people closest to the ground the make things happen.

we can hope for the party leaders to do their part at the national level but it's all for nothing if there's not a strong backbone of local organization that is doing the work on the reggie
posted by Tevin at 8:20 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


So what happens next with the Franken letter? Can Sessions just ignore it?
posted by diogenes at 8:22 AM on November 3, 2017


So what happens next with the Franken letter? Can Sessions just ignore it?

I expect we wait until Friday, 2017-Nov-10 to find out what's next in Minnesota's Senator Al Franken's bag of tricks.
posted by mikelieman at 8:25 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


> "The plan would also tax the tuition waivers that many graduate students receive when they work as teaching assistants or researchers."

This kills graduate education. There's no way anyone who's not either born into a rich family or married to a rich person could afford a PhD program should this pass. For most of the time I was working on my doctorate, I received about 25k a year as a stipend, plus tuition remissions of... sheesh, 55k a year? If I had been taxed on 80k of income, I would have had basically negative money to live on. So I would have not gone into academia, or (more likely) I would have left the country.

If one thinks of universities as sites of cultural influence, taxing graduate students on their tuition remissions is the perfect strategy to deploy to ensure that that influence only ends up in the hands of the already rich.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:26 AM on November 3, 2017 [96 favorites]


Pocahontas just stated that the Democrats, lead by the legendary Crooked Hillary Clinton, rigged the Primaries! Lets go FBI & Justice Dept.

When Trump is feeling angry and insecure, he attacks women personally. This is his most goddam predictable character trait.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:26 AM on November 3, 2017 [102 favorites]


Not to abuse the Edit, I'm hoping for relative quiet on the Mueller front. Until Thanksgiving week. Drop a "more indictments" on wed evening, own the holiday news cycle, as everyone involved freaks out, then pop, say Jared and Kushner on Monday. Or maybe Flynn and Sessions.

Maybe Flynn and Kushner. That's drive Trump totally nuts... Waiting for the Don. Jr./Sessions indictments.

My dog is a better person than me, because she wouldn't ENJOY all this as much as I do.
posted by mikelieman at 8:28 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


So what happens next with the Franken letter? Can Sessions just ignore it?

From my reading of Franken's letter, the "Please respond to these questions" section can be read as "So, exactly how many counts of 'Lying to Congress' would you like on your indictment, Mr. Sessions?"

I'm not sure it matters if Sessions responds or not. He's already got 99 problems.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:29 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


So what happens next with the Franken letter? Can Sessions just ignore it?

only if he can ignore all of my greeting cards too
posted by salix at 8:31 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


So, this is giving far too much credit to the stupid "Lock her up" contingent, but even assuming the worst, fever-dream conception of how the 2016 primaries were compromised is true, is any of it actually illegal? The DNC is a private institution, not a branch of the government. They could have gone to the convention, let the delegates cast their votes, and then just said, "Screw y'all, we're putting Martin O'Malley at the head of the ticket", couldn't they? It would violate several million of their procedures and bylaws, and would completely destroy their political credibility and be a terrible idea in many, many other ways, but it wouldn't be illegal, as I understand it, and not reasonably under the purview of the DoJ or any other law-enforcement body.
posted by jackbishop at 8:35 AM on November 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


File under Just Plain Greedy Grabbing: GOP Proposes Taxation of University Endowments

Colleges would be subject to the tax, set at 1.4 percent of net investment income, only if their endowment assets total at least $100,000 per student. We’re talking about just private institutions here; public colleges and universities would be exempt. Institutions with fewer than 500 students would be exempt, too.

This would hit ~ 140 institutions.
posted by Dashy at 8:35 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


This kills graduate education. There's no way anyone who's not either born into a rich family or married to a rich person could afford a PhD program should this pass. For most of the time I was working on my doctorate, I received about 25k a year as a stipend, plus tuition remissions of... sheesh, 55k a year? If I had been taxed on 80k of income, I would have had basically negative money to live on. So I would have not gone into academia, or (more likely) I would have left the country.

Universities will just set domestic graduate tuition for funded programs to be really low if this passes. It's all just funny money anyway when they set a tuition and then waive it. What will be damaging will be whether or not they can still gouge foreign students with a two-tier pricing system.

Also unlimited student loans are available to graduate students. You can still go to graduate school if you are poor. Now whether you can ever pay it off when you are done, that is another question with a much less satisfying answer...
posted by srboisvert at 8:36 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


I dunno, Harvard and its billion-plus endowment and its destroying of neighborhoods could use some humble pie...*sigh*
posted by Melismata at 8:38 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


>Also unlimited student loans are available to graduate students. You can still go to graduate school if you are poor.

This is a statement that's technically true but in real terms nonsense. It's like saying "the elevator's out, but you can still get to the ground floor by stepping into the empty shaft."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [50 favorites]


Sessions has a lie from the east, a lie from the west, a lie with @jack and a foreign interest...
posted by Artw at 8:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


For context, income from endowments is what most institutions use for operating expenses (ie paying me), big capital projects (eg building a new dorm), and for scholarships.

At my institution, about 50% of operating income is used to fund student aid. So this would directly impact how many/much student aid is available.
posted by Dashy at 8:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


So do you mean you want to just add em up and put a single suggestion? How do you cope with conflicts . . . . Or do you mean you want a table with all the items? Because then you're running up against the very quotes in here about big impenetrable tables of shit.

Yes. A single suggestion based on one's preferences, fully granulated to taste.

Sources: a checklist of advocacy groups / other recommendation sources
Conflicts: If sources conflict evenly, the recommendation is a toss up, otherwise majority source recommendation wins
Interface: enter zip code, accept default sources or choose one's own, badda-bing sample ballot. Option to message/print.

we have enough IT people, and legal beagles, surely we could create a super pac with the goal of slurping data about races from all available data sources, then do analysis on candidates and issues.

Curmudgeonly MeFites! . . . Assemble!
posted by petebest at 8:40 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I just want to reiterate a point Justinian made last night that shouldn't be overlooked:

People hoping for Sessions to go: Remember that if Sessions leaves for any reason his replacement AG won't be recused from the Russia investigation and could, therefore, fire Mueller.

This doesn't mean we have to tolerate Sessions treasonous behavior, but we do need to be clear-eyed about the situation, and realize some of the current constraints on power change if Sessions leaves.
posted by mosk at 8:40 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Seriously, I have discovered the joys of composing and snailmailing greeting cards via smartphone app, and it's like Resistbot but more satisfying!
posted by salix at 8:41 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is a statement that's technically true but in real terms nonsense. It's like saying "the elevator's out, but you can still get to the ground floor by stepping into the empty shaft."

It is how I got my graduate degree.
posted by srboisvert at 8:44 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was unable to find Franken's letter in text form anywhere. Does anyone have that?

Here's the start of a manually-typed-out one, please pardon the typos and inadvertent shopping list mixed in:

Dear Attorney General Sessions:

Once again, developments in the ongoing investigation in to Russian interference int he 2016 election have brought to light evidence that you failed to tell the truth about your interactions with Russian operatives during the campaign, as well as your awareness of Russian contacts by other members of the Trump campaign team. This is another example in an alarming pattern in which you, the nation’s top law enforcement officer, apparently failed to tell the truth, under oath, about the Trump team’s contacts with the agents of Russia - a hostile foreign power that interfered in the 2016 election. We must get to the bottom of what happened so that we can prevent it from happening again, and i am deeply troubled that this newest revelation strongly suggests that the Senate - and the American public - cannot trust your word.

Court documents unsealed on Monday revealed that on October 5, 2017, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to making false statements and omissions to the Federal Bureau of Investigation regarding his communications with Russian operatives. After Mr. Papadopoulos’s guilty plea was unsealed, new revelations emerged about Mr. Papadopoulos’s interactions with you and other members of the Trump campaign. The facts, as laid out in the court documents unsealed this week, are that Mr. Papadopoulos became a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser in early March. He subsequently met with a professor who “claimed to have substantial connections with Russian government officials,” and who took an interest in Mr. Papadopoulos precisely because of Mr. Papadopoulos’s role in the campaign. The second time that Mr. Papadopoulos met with the professor, on or about March 24, a female Russian national introduced as a relative of President Vladimir Putin also attended the meeting. Following Mr. Papadopoulos’s meetings, in late March he emailed “several members of the Campaign’s foreign policy team” and described the pruprose of his meetings as “to arrange a meeting between us and the Russian leadership to discuss U.S.-Russia ties under President Trump.”

posted by petebest at 8:46 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I was unable to find Franken's letter in text form anywhere. Does anyone have that?

The full text of Franken's letter is in the press release from his office.
posted by stopgap at 8:48 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Liberty University asked Anthony Scaramucci, who always came across as a pious man, to visit campus for a speech about "the central importance of forgiveness."

“At the end of the day, it was a big blunder, but ultimately for me to go forward and to progress in my career, I have to forgive myself — and you will find that in your faith and in your religious teachings,” he said.

So you can just...forgive yourself for whatever you've done and you're good to go with God? That's an even better deal than I understood it to be. I gotta get in on this Christianity thing.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:49 AM on November 3, 2017 [34 favorites]


And yet the party has leaders, and headquarters, and massive sources of funding. It seems like working with them would make sense.

The "party" doesn't really exist as a unified thing though. There is the DNC, which handles the presidential race. There's the DLCC, which handles state legislatures. There's the DSCC, which handles US Senate, and DCCC, which handles the House. Then you have your state party, county party, local party or committee, and any number of other structures at the local level (e.g., "clubs" in NYC). Each of these organizations has different priorities and goals and audiences and ideological perspectives - each has its own leaders, headquarters, sources of funding. There is no single unified "Democratic Party" organization. This is the same for the GOP, but they have structural advantages that mean they don't have to work as hard (gerrymandered districts, mostly white voters, fewer poor voters, more polling places in conservative areas, and a 20-years-running propaganda network).

I'm not saying abandon these existing groups to form your own; I'm saying, if you don't like what your local Democratic party is doing, organize and take over your local Democratic party. Then the county party, then the state party, then the national. There is no "Democratic Party" that is separate from the individuals who make up the party. Bring enough people with you and you become the party.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:51 AM on November 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


> It is how I got my graduate degree.

It's also a bad idea, unless:
  • You're getting an MS or a professional degree rather than a PhD, and
  • You're going into a field where jobs are plentiful and well-compensated, or
  • You're willing and able to go off the grid and live under an assumed identity if you don't find yourself in a position to pay off your loans.
When I started considering graduate education in the humanities, my advisors quite responsibly hammered home the message that the first law of grad school is never pay for grad school. If you're paying for grad school, you're either getting a professional degree that will let you hook into big money flows, or you're making a terrible mistake.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:51 AM on November 3, 2017 [67 favorites]


> "The plan would also tax the tuition waivers that many graduate students receive when they work as teaching assistants or researchers."

What makes this worse is that for most of the academic research enterprise, graduate tuition is either waived -- or paid for by, for the most part, federally funded research.

For the latter, the tuition tax would be paid presumably by the funding agency, just further diluting the value of any grant dollar, because as YCTAB said, paying taxes on $80k in imputed income from $25k in real income is just a non-starter.

For the former case -- it is nowhere near as simple as "make the cost zero for US residents and boom, problem goes away!". Those tuition costs/income appear on many balance sheets (department, college, university, endowment). (never mind the zenophobia of that idea)
posted by Dashy at 8:52 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yes. A single suggestion based on one's preferences, fully granulated to taste.

So iSideWith, but for local elections.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:55 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Also unlimited student loans are available to graduate students. You can still go to graduate school if you are poor.

-student loan interest deduction eliminated
-tax-free employer tuition reimbursement eliminated
-grad student tuition waivers taxable
-university endowments subject to excise tax
-tuition and fees deduction eliminated
posted by melissasaurus at 8:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [55 favorites]


In the world of "how can they live with themselves":
Senator Toomey just tweeted a picture of his Philly staffers supporting the Ronald McDonald House (apparently there's some campaign about wearing stripes in support of the organization).

They work for a man who has, just in 2017 alone, worked to destroy the ACA, Medicaid, the ADA, and CHIP.

When I called the office to ask about this, the staffer tried to tell me that he was making it better for kids. I asked how he expected them to get healthcare and she said "blah blah more choices."

Anyway, if you are Pennsylvania, I bet the Philly office would love to hear more from their constituents. 215.241.1090
posted by mcduff at 8:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [39 favorites]


This is a statement that's technically true but in real terms nonsense. It's like saying "the elevator's out, but you can still get to the ground floor by stepping into the empty shaft."

It is how I got my graduate degree.

It is how I got one year toward my graduate degree. I am proud to have funded the care and feeding of The Cathedral of Learning for a year, but it had to end. I dumped Pitt and worked as a receptionist for a year 'til I found a better school that would fund me for the second year. If I'd had to fund two years at Pitt with loan money, I'd still be paying it off and I'd still be living in a hut, and all to keep the international rooms swept clean and ready for visitors.
posted by Don Pepino at 8:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]



@readDonaldTrump: Just took off for ceremony @ Pearl Harbor. Will then be heading to Japan, SKorea, China, Vietnam & the Philippines. Will never let you down!


Y'know that thing where Trump does unsane things based on the last person he heard? I got a baaaaaad feeling about this.
posted by petebest at 8:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


If folks who are good at getting funding (via kickstarter or investors they could tap or setting up a PAC) are in and folks who have the will to hash out the details of what the ideal app/website should be a la MrVisible's & SecretAgentSockPuppet's suggestions are in, I will happily offer up my services as a software developer. I'm certain I'm not alone.

If the problem truly is that some people could get funding but don't have the clarity of ideas or know-how, others have the ideas but can't get funding & don't have know-how, and others (like me) have the know-how, but haven't the foggiest how to get funding & would look to others to help hash out what this thing should be- if that's the problem, then I would assert that we have the overlapping expertise (and then some) in all of these areas, right here on MetaFilter, and that with organization, we could do this.

Sign me up!

Seriously. Create a MeFi project, link it here; let's just get a show of hands of people who'd be willing to trade their current livelihood for this one & if we have the numbers, let's do it.

The reason I think this is hard is because folks who have the know-how do this day in & day out for their jobs and find it extremely difficult in their off time to put further effort into pet projects. I mean everyone: devs, yes, but also community organizers, folks with legal expertise, investment wranglers, etc. I believe this could work, but not as a collective of people tinkering in their garage on the weekends. I think it'd need to be funded, with real, livable wages, so that folks can quit their day jobs where they do these things for other people & appropriately dedicate their work week, their best forty hours, to the cause. To me, that's the rub. I'd love to do this pro bono, but I can't. I've tried. I burn out, work gets hectic, etc. I think this is by design, honestly: our working lives are so taxing we aren't (except for the best of us) able to muster the relentless effort necessary to get something like this off the ground in our vanishing free time. On the other hand: get organized, get funding, offer me a paid position to do something like this & I'll jump at it in a heartbeat. Again, I doubt any of us peddling our skills for profit alone wouldn't prefer to do something good while earning that profit.
posted by narwhal at 8:57 AM on November 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


People like Toomey probably honestly believe that society is better off receiving health care and social services from McDonalds than the government.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:59 AM on November 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


That's pretty much how most of the US's wretched healthcare system works, so....
posted by Artw at 9:03 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


some of the current constraints on power change if Sessions leaves.

Fuck it. The Mueller probe is not actually the most important thing the DOJ is involved in right now: Sessions is doing plenty of other very bad things. They would be hard-pressed to come up with someone as shitty as Sessions who would pass Congressional approval, especially without opening up another R senate seat.
posted by aspersioncast at 9:04 AM on November 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


There's no way anyone who's not either born into a rich family or married to a rich person could afford a PhD program should this pass.

*Ding ding ding ding!*
posted by Rykey at 9:05 AM on November 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


Gorka messaged Politifact that he wouldn't respond to their pants-on-fire description of Gorka's characterization of Tapper's remarks, and Gorka responded that he didn't want to encourage their "blatant brainwashing" and "sheeple feeding" so he wasn't going to respond.

I feel like Gorka should quit being a Nazi and take up writing copy for greeting cards. He's got a certain verbal knack. Too bad he uses it in service of being a giant asshole.
posted by angrycat at 9:06 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


So iSideWith, but for local elections.

No, that's about issues directly, this would be about advocacy groups' recommendations directly. (I mean, ultimately, yes it's about issues but instead of a "quiz" there'd just be list of groups to include in totting up which candidates/votes are suggested.)

Also, it says I should support Jill Stein, so. Yeah, no. DELETED.
posted by petebest at 9:07 AM on November 3, 2017


Can someone explain why ad-spend is seen as the ultimate measure of social-media propaganda? If you create a well-followed account posting propaganda, that has nothing to do with ad spending. These reports of accounts with 100k+ followers certainly indicate that was the case.
posted by H. Roark at 9:08 AM on November 3, 2017


Narwhal and others who may interested in using your software development powers for good: Ragtag Team is an existing organization headed up by former OfA and Clinton team members who can connect you with existing or new efforts in need of technical help.
posted by migurski at 9:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Franken's furthers, part II:

On March 31, 2016, . . Mr. Papadopoulos "introduced himself to the group" of campaign advisers and "stated, . . that he had connections that could help arrange a meeting between then-candidate Trump and President Putin."[3] That same day, then-candidate Trump posted a photograph of the meeting to Instagram.[4] . . Mr. Papadopoulos is seated two seats to your left.[5] . . .

According to an adviser present at the meeting, you reportedly "shut George [Papadopoulos] down" and you said, "[w]e're not going to do it. I'd prefer that nobody speak about this again."[9] . . Such a strong reaction also suggests that Mr. Papadopoulos's comments during the meeting would have been memorable to you. . . .

posted by petebest at 9:14 AM on November 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


Not a single word Sean Spicer spoke during his Visiting Fellowship at Harvard was on the record, nor could a single word could be heard without an explicit invite.

So you all heard this in your minds as Cate Blanchette narrating the opening lines of J.A. Bayona's next film, right?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:15 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Gorka messaged Politifact that he wouldn't respond to their pants-on-fire description of Gorka's characterization of Tapper's remarks, and Gorka responded that he didn't want to encourage their "blatant brainwashing" and "sheeple feeding" so he wasn't going to respond.

sebastian gorka: who knew that moustache-twirling villainy could be so tiresome?
posted by murphy slaw at 9:20 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


sebastian gorka: who knew that moustache-twirling villainy could be so tiresome?

Christ, these assholes think they want to be Bond villains but when it comes down to it, they're too lazy to do anything that's not whining and too stupid to find a grift that involves anything more complicated than a billionaire giving them money to whine in public.
posted by Copronymus at 9:27 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Can someone explain why ad-spend is seen as the ultimate measure of social-media propaganda?

Because it's measurable. And because, in many areas of US life, advertising reach does directly correspond to results. (See: Last year's election.) There is no simple way to measure "advertising reach" other than spend.

There are non-simple ways: they could measure the percentage of liberal-focused FB feeds that saw the ad, or clickthrough percentage (hah!) or buzzword repetition on other sites. But those are complicated and also don't verify interest/agreement, just some point of connection. Ad spend is easy to measure; it's the dick-waving contest of the corporate and political worlds.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:27 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I feel like Gorka should quit being a Nazi and take up writing copy for greeting cards.

Oopsie doopsie, I've forgotten your birthday!
posted by contraption at 9:28 AM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]




Talking Points Memo: House GOP Votes To Fund Children’s Insurance With Cuts To Public Health

Here's the vote and here's the bill, the Community Health and Medical Professionals Improve Our Nation (CHAMPION) Act of 2017.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:30 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Twitter is taking action and... er... banning porn?
posted by Artw at 9:30 AM on November 3, 2017


Gorka messaged Politifact that he wouldn't respond to their pants-on-fire description of Gorka's characterization of Tapper's remarks, and Gorka responded that he didn't want to encourage their "blatant brainwashing" and "sheeple feeding" so he wasn't going to respond.

Wait, what is this in reference to?
posted by orrnyereg at 9:32 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Imagine a nineteen-year-old college student, slightly stoned, in between classes, going through the same process that you went through to vote most recently. Doing all the research, the soul-searching, parsing what was bullshit from lobbyists and what was from reliable sources.

I... dude, I have a fuckin' phd in political science and don't do hardly any of that shit.

The process I went through to vote most recently was:

(1) Vote for all the Democrats
(2) If there's more than one Democrat to pick from, vote for women and people of color to the extent you can infer those from names.
(3) If it's a nonpartisan election, vote for women and people of color again.
(4) If it's a ballot proposition, vote no unless I can think of a decent reason to vote yes.

The vote I cast are probably 95%+ the same as I would cast if I'd spent a gazillion hours agonizing about it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:34 AM on November 3, 2017 [68 favorites]




Sean Spicer has concluded his fellowship at the Harvard Kennedy School - during which he prefaced every single lecture and meeting by declaring them off the record.
posted by adamg at 9:35 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Not how "the record" works, Spicey...
posted by phearlez at 9:36 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


For people interested in online voting guides, check out Ballotpedia (VA Gov info). They're non partisan, but contain all the info about endorsements and positions that might be useful for scraping. They can go all the way down to school board (Fairfax County), at least for VA this year. I've used it in the past to find info about local county and township election info.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 9:39 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


he prefaced every single lecture and meeting by declaring them off the record.

I was sure that what I was reading there was on some spin-off of The Harvard Lampoon. What the fuck does "off the record" mean in the context of a lecture? Is there some repercussion if a student reports what was said?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:40 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Is there some repercussion if a student reports what was said?

according to the students, he was so 'inarticulate' that 'it was really difficult to take any notes', so i'm not sure they could quote him if they tried
posted by halation at 9:50 AM on November 3, 2017 [48 favorites]


No problem, Sean, all links to transcripts and recordings of your lectures on the internet by other-than-the-press sources will be duly labelled "Sean Spicer's totally off-the-record lectures."
posted by Rykey at 9:50 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


“Welcome everyone, just a reminder, our class today will be off the record[, in effect, due to its incoherence].”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:53 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Bowe Bergdahl dishonorably discharged and demoted, but will serve no prison time

Yep. There it is. Right there.
Then, last year, Donald J. Trump made denunciations of Sergeant Bergdahl as a “dirty rotten traitor” a staple of his campaign speeches, and called for the sergeant to be executed.

Once Mr. Trump was inaugurated, Sergeant Bergdahl’s defense team, led by Eugene R. Fidell, who teaches military justice at Yale Law School, demanded that the case be dismissed. There was no way the sergeant could receive a fair trial, his lawyers said, since everyone in the military justice system now reported to Mr. Trump as commander in chief.

Colonel Nance labeled Mr. Trump’s comments “disturbing” but declined to throw out the case. Then, last month, President Trump seemed to endorse his earlier sentiments about Sergeant Bergdahl, saying, “I think people have heard my comments in the past.”

After another protest by the defense, Colonel Nance ruled that he would consider the president’s comments as evidence in mitigation as he deliberated on a sentence.
Saipov; the person charged with the recent NYC terror attack just got served up a huge win from Trump.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 9:53 AM on November 3, 2017 [46 favorites]


So you can just...forgive yourself for whatever you've done and you're good to go with God? That's an even better deal than I understood it to be. I gotta get in on this Christianity thing.

"[I] confess that [I] have sinned against [myself] in thought, word and deed, by what I have done and by what I have left undone. I have not loved [myself] with my whole heart. I have not loved my neighbor as myself. I am truly sorry and I humbly repent. For the sake of [myself] [I] have mercy on me and forgive [myself]. Amen.

Checks out.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:54 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Pro Tip: saying "off-the-record" doesn't cast some magical spell that creates an enforceable NDA.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:58 AM on November 3, 2017 [44 favorites]


I can still declare bankruptcy that way though right???
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:01 AM on November 3, 2017 [18 favorites]


according to the students, he was so 'inarticulate' that 'it was really difficult to take any notes', so i'm not sure they could quote him if they tried

I imagine that if Sarah H. Sanders had a similar Harvard fellowship she'd like to have you carve her talking points into your skin with a quill. But hey, her talking points would be compressed and in sentences. Very repeated sentences.
posted by puddledork at 10:04 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Pro Tip: saying "off-the-record" doesn't cast some magical spell that creates an enforceable NDA.

Snark aside, what it does accomplish is communicate to the higher-ups in the room that you intend to be a whiney bag of crap about this and expect them to drop an anvil on anyone who doesn't honor your desires in this. Which everyone in the room knows they're predisposed to go along with because they did this closed-room invite-only bullshit in the first place. The higher-ups get the message that you care enough about this to say this here which means you'll care enough about it outside the room to make stinks like the ones they were too spineless to weather with regards to Manning.

tl;dr: it's all about the chilling effect.
posted by phearlez at 10:05 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


As dog as my witness I am Off The Recorrrrrrd!!

/distant-thunder
posted by petebest at 10:05 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Not All Republicans On Board With Proposed Tax Plan (NPR, Nov. 2, 2017)
The Republicans rolled out their tax plan on Thursday, but not every Republican is on board. NPR's Mary Louise Kelly speaks to Congressman Leonard Lance, R-N.J., about why he isn't satisfied.
Meanwhile, Blue Dog Dems weighing support for GOP tax bill (Mike Lillis for The Hill, Nov. 2, 2017)
Conservative-leaning Democrats said Thursday that they’ll take a look at the Republicans’ sweeping tax-reform proposal in hopes of reaching a bipartisan deal — a sharp contrast to the immediate vilification coming from Democratic leaders.

The leaders of the Blue Dogs, while quick to bash the partisan process in which the GOP tax plan was forged, said they’re analyzing the legislation to see if it meets their standards. If Republicans cross the aisle for input, the lawmakers suggested, there may be room for them to jump on board.

"As Blue Dogs, the door is never closed to pursuing bipartisan solutions,” the three Blue Dog co-chairmen — Reps. Jim Costa (D-Calif.), Henry Cuellar (D-Texas) and Daniel Lipinski (D-Ill.) — said in a statement.

“Although we strongly disagree with the process that produced this tax bill, our members will evaluate its contents in a measured way to see how it compares to the principles of the Blue Dog Vision for Tax Reform.
The Blue Dog Vision for Tax Reform calls for the following:
1. Republicans must abandon the failed, partisan reconciliation process for major reform, and follow through with the expectation of using an open, bipartisan process and regular order.

2. Tax reform must be credibly revenue neutral, and unrealistic, rosy economic-growth projections should not be used to offset the costs of tax reform or tax relief.

3. The middle class must be the priority, and tax reform should not shift the distributional balance to the wealthy.

4. American companies need a more competitive corporate tax rate and structure in order to maintain their ability to compete globally. Congress must also account for the needs of small businesses when it comes to setting tax rates.

5. We should consider using tax reform as an opportunity to address the funding challenges for the Highway Trust Fund.
So, we have that.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:05 AM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


@migurski Thanks for that link. I've bookmarked it & will certainly check in with that group as I'm able. Unfortunately, it appears to rely on pro bono efforts rather than hiring full-time devs (or did I miss a list of job postings on the site?). Their aim is in line with what I'm after, but it relies on free work rather than paid work. I'm looking for the same thing but different: an outfit with the same aim that hires full-time subject matter experts and pays them living wages (or that can put people in touch with projects looking to hire full-time).

It makes me sad to think that just as higher education increasingly requires a personal fortune or the willingness to go into debt, so do all these other arenas in life. I don't know why it should surprise me. It's no wonder that, historically speaking, so many notable human achievements were accomplished by members of the aristocracy (or the lucky few they patronized): they're the only ones who weren't tied to a life in the field putting food on their table & thus able to explore, discover, muse, create, etc.
posted by narwhal at 10:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Traitors gotta traitor.
posted by Artw at 10:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


sotonohito: So yes, pretty much anyone working at Twitter support could have disabled Trump's account and doubtless still can. And while its amusing that one of them did, it's also not good for IT as a whole that he did. That sort of crap, like the Geek Squad violations, undermine us professional IT people who take care to do the job right and not snoop or hurt clients.

Also, there is a reasonable chance the Twitter employee violated the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (Joe Uchill for The Hill, Nov. 3, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 10:12 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Bowe Bergdahl dishonorably discharged and demoted, but will serve no prison time

I am so incredibly relieved to see this. Dude's been through more than enough already.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:14 AM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


I suppose I should just accept that as long as I'm reading this thread, I'll never get this song out of my head...
posted by homunculus at 10:14 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Random Ex-Twitter Employee is a freedom fighter and will be endorsed by HRC, Obama, and Bernie as the 2020 Dem candidate.
posted by asteria at 10:16 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


> they're the only ones who weren't tied to a life in the field putting food on their table

let's unpack some of the pronouns though, just to sharpen the point.
  • [they're] the only ones who weren't tied to a life in the field putting food on [their] table
  • the aristocrats were the only ones who weren't tied to a life in the field putting food on the aristocrats' tables.
There's two reasons the rich make us serve them. One, because they don't like doing all the work of supporting themselves. But two, because so long as we're serving them they won't have to compete with us.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 10:20 AM on November 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


Wall of text about being newish residents of VA and the frustration of politics and living here. The Mr. and I made the unfortunate choice of moving to a city formerly known for trains in SW Virgina last fall. He took a good job at a university in a city about an hour away, and I drive just over 100 miles each way to another state because there are no jobs for a Ph.D in this economically depressed shit hole. During my drive, I see endless Gillespie signs and even some Trump signs still standing. Trump bumper stickers abound! In the city where we live, there is a smattering of Northam signs, but also some pockets of GOP support that are very visible (LARGE signs in the yard instead of the usual yard signs). We are one of a handful of white families in our neighborhood, mixed with a wide variety of Latinx, African, Nepalese, African-American. This is formerly one of the worst neighborhoods in the city, but residents are working hard to turn that around, which is difficult because the folks who live here are poor, with many relying on public transportation to get around. Most of them do not have computers. The city doesn't pay much attention to us unless we call in reports of gunshots. Then, the cops will cruise around for a couple days before forgetting about us again. Hell, we don't have a grocery store anywhere near here. Our polling place is a mile or so away, through this stretch of weird urban wasteland, so a lot of folks will either have to walk on our shitty sidewalks or wait around for the bus to take them there. Fortunately, it looks like good weather on Tuesday.

To date, we have received a Ralph Northam advert in the form of a post-it note stuck on our front door, my husband received a mailer from the Northam campaign. Yesterday, after my 2+ hour commute home, I reached in my mailbox and found some photocopied letter, stapled closed, scolding me for having a poor voting record and reminding me, in very simple language, why it is important to vote. I am 52 years old and I have never missed an election in my life. I've also never received anything like this in the mail before. We've received no information about where and when to vote, and had to dig around to find that we can't early vote without a hassle, and that I will have to hope that I have enough energy left to stand in line to vote after getting up at 5 AM, hitting the road at 6, teaching all day, then driving back. I have a voter registration card and a passport-- I hope this is sufficient ID to vote. I can't seem to get anyone to confirm this.

I bitch about this here because last year, when we lived in North Carolina, we constantly had informative brochures coming to the house, we were called and texted and having our door knocked on constantly to make sure we were still on board to vote. We had about a month (I think?) to go down to the polling place and vote at our convenience so there was no messing around with this absentee bullshit. And here in VA, yeah, we'll go vote, but they really aren't making it easy for people who would not ordinarily be inclined to do so. I don't know where I'm going with this, but we hate it here so much and can't wait to leave, and this election just adds to the chronic depression and frustration and urge to scream because we are surrounded by so many garbage people who want to vote in more garbage. This part of the state can't withstand Gillespie's garbage policies. The economy here barely has a pulse, and yet these morons surrounding us continue striving to cut off their own nose (and the noses of their neighbors). Apologies to those of you who love the state-- we have not had a good experience here and we just feel overwhelmed with despair.
posted by Heretic at 10:23 AM on November 3, 2017 [40 favorites]


Random Ex-Twitter Employee is a freedom fighter and will be endorsed by HRC, Obama, and Bernie as the 2020 Dem candidate.

I hope they stay anonymous because the present being what it is once they're outed it's going to be a Ken Bone/Milkshake Duck situation.
posted by dis_integration at 10:25 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


On the one hand, the president's toxic sludge memedrama twitter disappearing for ten minutes was a delightful giggle. On the other... sigh, no, I do not want random twitter or facebook employee to be able to delete accounts in a grudge on their way out the door. Aside from the escalation wars that could kick off, I don't want anyone (other than maybe the president) to lose a month's rent because their account was cancelled in the middle of some kind of payment verification process.

I expect they kinda have to prosecute him. If he's sensible, he'll get a good lawyer and listen to them - maybe he can cut a deal claiming high stress, momentary impulse, no actual harm done, etc. Or maybe he claims not guilty and hopes for jury nullification.

On the other other hand (what, I can use tentacles if I want), if this does happen again, maybe it's what the public needs to consider putting up with the inconvenience of less monopolistic media companies with more interpersonal accountability. (Other other other hand - this is the kind of minor event that can avalanche. Almost any random bank employee can blank your account. Sure, they'd be caught, but in the meantime, until the scramble got fixed, you'd be broke. And banks, unlike tech platforms, aren't prone to having real-time 10-minute fixes for strange tech problems.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:26 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


All they gotta do is just actually apply the policies to Don and he's gone though.
posted by Artw at 10:31 AM on November 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


We've received no information about where and when to vote, and had to dig around to find that we can't early vote without a hassle, and that I will have to hope that I have enough energy left to stand in line to vote after getting up at 5 AM, hitting the road at 6, teaching all day, then driving back. I have a voter registration card and a passport-- I hope this is sufficient ID to vote. I can't seem to get anyone to confirm this.

Your passport is sufficient and since you work outside the county you qualify under Virginia rules for being able to absentee vote. Look up your precinct and see if they're running in-person absentee, which many do, which is legally available through tomorrow evening.
posted by phearlez at 10:31 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


In my defense, Lord, my neighbor has a really nice ass.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:31 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Or, you know, does any random Twitter employee have the ability to tweet out from an account? Previously I think it would've been assumed that some crazy thing being said from the President's twitter was a hack but of course that's no longer the case.

It's Reagan's "we begin bombing in five minutes" except that X number of people may be able to do it, and it goes worldwide at the speed of light.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:32 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


Special Counsel Mueller Warns That Manafort And Gates Pose A Flight Risk (NPR, Nov. 2, 2017)
Special Counsel Robert Mueller is warning that Paul Manafort and Rick Gates pose a flight risk and is asking a judge to impose strict bail conditions on both of them. Gates and Manafort appeared before federal court on Thursday.
...
[NPR's Carrie Johnson, who was in court]: Judge Amy Berman Jackson is an appointee of President Barack Obama, former President Obama. She said she couldn't understand exactly what Paul Manafort's lawyers wanted. They appeared in court to change their position a couple of times. Finally, they asked the judge to release Manafort from having to undergo this GPS or electronic monitoring. Lawyers for Rick Gates, who has some young kids, say he wants to attend their sports games this weekend and be able to get out of the house to do that.

The judge has ordered the defense and the government to lay out their arguments in writing. But she said, I'm concerned - very concerned - about some of the information the special counsel has highlighted. And she thought there would need to be some really good reasons to release these guys from electronic monitoring. Everybody's due back in court Monday morning.
Manafort's lawyer is already having trouble making a clear case for his client already? Not a good sign for Manafort.

Also of note: Manafort's lawyers now say he knew back in August that he would be charged, but he stayed in the country to face these charges.

But there's more!
Remember that Kevin Downing, the lawyer for Paul Manafort, earlier this week told reporters this indictment was ridiculous and there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. Well, Judge Jackson didn't seem to like those remarks. She warned both sides today fairly sternly that this is a criminal trial, not a PR campaign. And she said, I expect counsel to do their talking in this courtroom, not on the courthouse steps. The judge even mentioned on Monday she's considering imposing a formal order to that effect.
...
there are hundreds of thousands of documents in this case both from the U.S. and overseas. But Paul Manafort's lawyer says he wants to go to trial in April 2018, and the judge said today she thinks that might work. She's going to talk more about it next week. And so far, there's still no sign despite all the legal and financial pressure on Paul Manafort that he's going to want to change his plea, plead guilty and cooperate with this investigation.
While things may come out (likely via leaks) as Manafort and Gates turn over documents for their cases, it sounds like we'll be waiting for six months for these cases to open things up.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:32 AM on November 3, 2017 [26 favorites]


I'm also a web developer who'd be interested in working on the Big Project.
As long as we use Laravel.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:32 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Or, you know, does any random Twitter employee have the ability to tweet out from an account? Previously I think it would've been assumed that some crazy thing being said from the President's twitter was a hack but of course that's no longer the case.

It's Reagan's "we begin bombing in five minutes" except that X number of people may be able to do it, and it goes worldwide at the speed of light.


Well, there's certainly a very simple and elegant solution to that.
posted by Artw at 10:33 AM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


In my defense, Lord, my neighbor has a really nice ass.

Now now, Holy Scripture is very explicit about this (the Geneva translation is, anyhow):

"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
posted by tivalasvegas at 10:35 AM on November 3, 2017 [37 favorites]


Manafort's lawyer is already having trouble making a clear case for his client already? Not a good sign for Manafort.

Well, he's having trouble making a clear case that he should be released from the normal restrictions of bail that are imposed on rich people with substantial connections outside the US, like wearing a monitor. I think he's grasping at straws, "but Your Honor; my client has sensitive ankles and the GPS monitor causes chafing!" is not likely to be well-received, so he's probably trying other tactics.

He's probably trying to pull off, "my client is very wealthy and powerful and therefore it's wrong to inconvenience him," which works in most situations, but here it works against him, so he has to obfuscate but he doesn't know what direction to move.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:41 AM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Mueller not fucking around.

@tbridis (AP)
Special Counsel Mueller tells US judge he needs 15 days in court to convict Paul Manafort, Rick Gates SCAN OF ORDER
posted by chris24 at 10:42 AM on November 3, 2017 [52 favorites]


I'm on a 27k a year stipend and my tuition waiver is about 50k. That's a crippling tax burden I'll be facing. This can't possibly pass, can it?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 10:43 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's so weird that a Senator essentially called the Attorney General a traitorous liar (in writing), and it hardly made a ripple. Its already gone from my Google news feed.
posted by diogenes at 10:45 AM on November 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


> Special Counsel Mueller tells US judge he needs 15 days in court to convict Paul Manafort, Rick Gates SCAN OF ORDER

And 10 of them are just Mueller saying "Your Honor, can you believe this fucking guy?" over and over.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:46 AM on November 3, 2017 [48 favorites]


@You Can't Tip A Buick Agreed, agreed, agreed 1,000%. I hate that I'm given object lessons in how deep the rabbit hole goes, even when I'm trying to suss out why it's so hard for me to put my talent towards projects I believe in during my free time.
posted by narwhal at 10:48 AM on November 3, 2017


More Professor Joe 'The Professor' Mifsud updates:

Stirling University in Scotland, one of his most recent perches, boasted about his Putin connections.

And here's a picture of him from the Russian Embassy UK's website, wearing a medal. But what medal? @jonwirth would like to know, and he's worth (ahem) helping as he's also producing this excellent Mifsud Mind Map.

More hot Mifsud news as it happens.
posted by Devonian at 10:48 AM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


This can't possibly pass, can it?

Louie Gohmert is a Congressman. Roy Moore will likely become a Senator. Never wager money on "this is too stupid a prospect even for Congress, isn't it?"
posted by delfin at 10:52 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Just came through from one of my opendata lists:
WASHINGTON, DC - House Democratic Whip Steny H. Hoyer (MD) launched GOPTaxBill.us today, a new website dedicated to ensuring that the public's voice is heard as House Republicans attempt to rush their bill to provide tax cuts to the wealthy through Congress.
Presumably the full press release will be on https://www.democraticwhip.gov/ when they get to it but it went out to their press list in the last 20 minutes.
posted by phearlez at 10:52 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Stopped Clock Jennifer Rubin, WaPo: Trump’s latest impeachable actions
Trump’s latest call — following “lock her up” chants at rallies that continued after his election — is not an isolated event, but, as noted before, part of an ongoing pattern of trying to lean on the Justice Department either to pursue or not to pursue criminal proceedings against specific individuals. This certainly clears the bar of abuse of power established in the impeachment of Richard Nixon (who “merely” countenanced using the CIA to shut down the FBI’s investigation of the Watergate break-in) and goes well beyond the discrete action of Bill Clinton in lying under oath in the Paula Jones matter and to the grand jury. Trump’s conduct is pervasive, and if allowed to go unpunished will permanently distort our constitutional system. We simply cannot tolerate presidential meddling in our criminal-justice system to protect friends and persecute enemies.

“There is no bigger abuse of power than the president ordering his Justice Department to investigate his political enemies or back off his political allies, and Trump has done both,” says former Justice Department communications director Matthew Miller. “If he did it in secret, it would be treated as an enormous scandal, but because he does it in public, we have all gotten used to it. But it’s still the worst possible abuse of power, and the kind of thing everyone in Congress should demand end immediately — with the most serious consequences if he doesn’t.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:55 AM on November 3, 2017 [78 favorites]


Damn it all ... a shocking reminder of how stupid/ evil/ petty Trump and Co were and still are: the backdrop to the administration's decision to support a non-scientist who says the consensus scientific view that human-generated greenhouse gas emissions have driven recent climate change is “not proven” to head up the USDA, which has efforts targeted to understanding climate change in its 2017 budget factsheet (PDF) [yes, that file alone was created in Feb. 2016, but it's still online ya idiots] is that the Obama administration had gone to enormous lengths to prepare for the transition from his administration to Trump's.
They prepared briefings for - you know, on the assumption that 20 people would roll into the Department of Agriculture or Energy or Treasury the day after the election and learn how the place worked. And the Trump people just didn't show up for the briefings.
...
The odd thing was that they dumped a lot of people into the building in non-confirmed jobs on Inauguration Day. And Politico the magazine got ahold of the resumes of these people. And it was a lot of people who didn't have college educations, who had absolutely no background in agriculture or anything having to do with the Department of Agriculture. So they seem to have regarded it as a place to put Trump loyalists where it wouldn't matter 'cause no one would notice.
Instead, they offer an Iowa talk radio host / local politician to head the Department, but oops! He was identified by Papadopoulos in several references in court filings as “the campaign supervisor”. But don't worry, Sam's not going anywhere yet. Even though Clovis withdrew his nomination because "the political climate inside Washington has made it impossible for me to receive balanced and fair consideration for this position," he's still serving as the senior White House adviser on the Agriculture Department (CNN, with auto-playing segment on Clovis).
posted by filthy light thief at 10:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [25 favorites]


who “merely” countenanced using the CIA to shut down the FBI’s investigation of the Watergate break-in

Gah, my brain hurts.

This can't possibly pass, can it?

Louie Gohmert is a Congressman. Roy Moore will likely become a Senator. Never wager money on "this is too stupid a prospect even for Congress, isn't it?"


This is of course true, but a lot of people are saying it'll never pass the Senate.
posted by Melismata at 10:58 AM on November 3, 2017


I'm on a 27k a year stipend and my tuition waiver is about 50k. That's a crippling tax burden I'll be facing. This can't possibly pass, can it?

Even when you set aside the homophobia, racism, and sexism, Republican policy is about hurting people they don't like. Live in a blue state with higher property values and taxes? They'll take those deductions, thanks. Your local police want to make their own decisions about how to deal with immigrant communities? Not on their watch. Scientist who wants an EPA grant? If they don't cut the funding entirely, they'll make sure you can't advise the EPA in your area of expertise. They're not trying to govern, and you'll never go broke betting that they'll do something to hurt you if you don't support them 100%.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 10:58 AM on November 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Professor Joe 'The Professor' Mifsud

Sam Clovis

I could deal with it okay when Omnigate had like a Lord of the Rings-level cast of characters, but now it's Game of Thrones to the power of Wheel of Time and I have no idea who eighty percent of these people are
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:00 AM on November 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Lara Trump Taking on White House Duties in Troubling And Unprecedented Move, Officials Say (Chris Riotta, Newsweek)
Lara Trump, the face of her father-in-law's re-election campaign, has been hosting high-level meetings within the White House to push a variety of domestic policy initiatives, a clear crossing of the well-established line between campaign work and public service, ethics and government watchdogs told Newsweek.

The senior adviser to the president's already-active 2020 campaign has quietly conducted over half a dozen meetings with government officials including Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke, Veteran Affairs Committee Chairman Phil Roe and Representative Ron DeSantis, in an effort to swing the administration’s support behind a $10 million federal initiative to establish a new nationwide Veterans Affairs program, according to two sources with direct knowledge of the meetings and accompanying legislation. [...]

"This is not normal," Virginia Canter, ethics counsel for the executive branch at CREW who worked under former Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush, told Newsweek. "To the extent that somebody is actively engaged in political campaigning, it would be inappropriate for them to be sitting in and heading White House meetings. It raises a lot of concerns; you get the appearance that the individual is moving policy for political purposes rather than the public interest."
posted by Room 641-A at 11:03 AM on November 3, 2017 [42 favorites]


chris24: Special Counsel Mueller tells US judge he needs 15 days in court to convict Paul Manafort, Rick Gates

This is moving really fast, in an exciting way. Consider that yesterday Paul Manafort's lawyer says he wants to go to trial in April 2018, and the judge said [...] she thinks that might work.

And in response (?) Mueller said "nah, we could be done before Thanksgiving, this year" (assuming those 3 weeks are any time now, not at some future date).
posted by filthy light thief at 11:03 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


"...you get the appearance that the individual is moving policy for political purposes rather than the public interest."

YA THINK
posted by Melismata at 11:05 AM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Lara Trump, the face of her father-in-law's re-election campaign

Some people come in, and they bring their whole family with them, who can be truly evil. NOT ACCEPTABLE!
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:08 AM on November 3, 2017 [93 favorites]


It's not clear to me that that document about the government's case is suggesting that those 15 days would happen any time soon, just that that's about how long it'll take once that case comes to court. If someone's got more specific info on the likely timeframe Mueller would be aiming for, I'd be interested to hear it, but it seems unlikely that the judge would be entertaining the possibility of an April 2018 court date if months earlier than that was plausibly where the prosecution was at.
posted by cortex at 11:09 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Room 641-A: Lara Trump Taking on White House Duties in Troubling And Unprecedented Move, Officials Say

Let's add this to the list of "unprecedented moves" by the Trump campaign family. You know, that list we keep around when we need to remember how wrong this year is? The list that has changed no one's mind sufficiently to impeach his ass yet?

Yeah, that list.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:10 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


It has been _0_ days since the last Trump disaster.
posted by Melismata at 11:11 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


tivalasvegas: I could deal with it okay when Omnigate had like a Lord of the Rings-level cast of characters, but now it's Game of Thrones to the power of Wheel of Time and I have no idea who eighty percent of these people are

Wikipedia: Trump campaign–Russian meetings -- no handy chart, but you can find everyone named there, and follow the links back to their profiles. Both Clovis and Mifsud are there, under the George Papadopoulous meetings section.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:15 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]




It's not clear to me that that document about the government's case is suggesting that those 15 days would happen any time soon, just that that's about how long it'll take once that case comes to court. If someone's got more specific info on the likely timeframe Mueller would be aiming for, I'd be interested to hear it, but it seems unlikely that the judge would be entertaining the possibility of an April 2018 court date if months earlier than that was plausibly where the prosecution was at.

Backing up cortex on this, that filing is basically saying "whenever you get around to scheduling the trial, you're going to need to reserve the courtroom for three weeks just to hear our side of it."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:17 AM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


And in response (?) Mueller said "nah, we could be done before Thanksgiving, this year" (assuming those 3 weeks are any time now, not at some future date).

No, those might've been two different aspects of the case. Mueller says he needs 15 days of courtroom time - plus whatever the defense wants to insist they need; Manafort's lawyer wants to make sure those 15(+) days happen no earlier than the 2nd quarter of 2018, presumably, so either he has time to scrounge up a logic-chain that makes Manafort seem like a dupe instead of a director, or so that everyone will have a few extra months of "oh, I've forgotten" and time for data collections to erode.

Deliberate or quasi-accidential removal of data needed for a trial is srsly illegal. Hoping that the prosecution won't put the dots together before some online travel records are purged is not. Defense is obligated to preserve data; they're not obligated to go collect it and keep it safe.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:20 AM on November 3, 2017


It's not clear to me that that document about the government's case is suggesting that those 15 days would happen any time soon, just that that's about how long it'll take once that case comes to court.

Yeah it's normal for a court to ask how long a trial will likely be for their scheduling purposes, that's what that order looks like to me. It looks like the defense at least says it will file pre-trial motions, which would need to be resolved before it goes to trial. There's a hearing on November 6th where the parties are supposed to address whether it's premature to set a trial date that this time. The court then goes on to say that if an schedule is set, it intends it to be, and then give a schedule with a trial date of May 7th 2018.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 11:20 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


> But it’s still the worst possible abuse of power, and the kind of thing everyone in Congress should demand end immediately — with the most serious consequences if he doesn’t.”

Republican Congresspeople are cool with Trump's myriad abuses of power because they're all temporarily embarrassed despots.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:20 AM on November 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


That's so far away!
posted by diogenes at 11:21 AM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Federal judge orders that the trial of ex-Trump aides Paul Manafort and Rick Gates "will commence on May 7, 2018 at 9:30 a.m." [tweet w/ screencap of order]

But that's so looooong from now! I want them in prison NOW! Mooom! *stomps feet*
posted by leotrotsky at 11:21 AM on November 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


Oh sweet Jebus, Louie Gohmert is awake:

Conservatives introduce measure demanding Mueller’s resignation
Three House Republicans on Friday moved to pressure special counsel Robert Mueller to resign over what they contend are “obvious conflicts of interest,” the latest instance of rising GOP resistance to his Russia probe.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:21 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


i.e. his interests conflict with Trump's.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:22 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Three House Republicans on Friday moved to pressure special counsel Robert Mueller to resign over what they contend are “obvious conflicts of interest,” the latest instance of rising GOP resistance to his Russia probe.

Obstruction of Justice?
posted by leotrotsky at 11:23 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


i.e. they're scared of what he may find if he digs too far.
posted by azpenguin at 11:24 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


But that's so looooong from now! I want them in prison NOW! Mooom! *stomps feet*

Don't worry, Carter Page will save us.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:24 AM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mueller has an obvious interest in uncovering criminal behavior and Trump has an obvious interest in covering up his criminal behavior.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:25 AM on November 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


So the house arrest applies all the way until then?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:26 AM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


> Don't worry, Carter Page will save us.

and then, if we want, we can travel with him to his home planet.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:26 AM on November 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


*Clutching pearls, fanning self* Why Congressman Gohmert, I just had no idea whatsoever that conflicts of interest bothered you and your fellow legislators so!
posted by Rykey at 11:27 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Don't worry, Carter Page will save us.
>and then, if we want, we can travel with him to his home planet.


I think we may have cracked the mystery of "Covfefe."
posted by leotrotsky at 11:28 AM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's so weird that a Senator essentially called the Attorney General a traitorous liar (in writing), and it hardly made a ripple. Its already gone from my Google news feed.

The media already know that Sessions is, so somehow that isn't "news."

Your liberal media, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by Gelatin at 11:35 AM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Even when you set aside the homophobia, racism, and sexism, Republican policy is about hurting people they don't like.

And they get away with it in part because they count on Democrats not to respond in kind.

Which they shouldn't, but good Ford, it's tempting.
posted by Gelatin at 11:40 AM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


> Universities will just set domestic graduate tuition for funded programs to be really low if this passes. It's all just funny money anyway when they set a tuition and then waive it.

This is not true. The tuition waivers that graduate research assistants get are supported by research grants, not by university funds. So, when I employ a graduate student in my lab, I -- the PI -- shell out ~$25K for their stipend (ie, their takehome pay) plus ~$15K for their tuition (which is the reduced rate that my private, R1 university charges PIs; it's much less than the tuition they'd pay out-of-pocket). The cost of their tuition comes out of my grants as a direct cost and goes straight into the university's coffers, and the grad receives a "waiver."

If they reduced the amount of the tuition, and hence the cost of the waiver, that would be that much less that they could skim out of faculty grants for each grad student.

I leave as an exercise for the reader the chances of that happening.
posted by Westringia F. at 11:40 AM on November 3, 2017 [39 favorites]




Why tax graduate student tuition wavers and not those of the student athletes? You know, the football players for example?
posted by obliquity of the ecliptic at 11:43 AM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


> If they reduced the amount of the tuition, and hence the cost of the waiver, that would be that much less that they could skim out of faculty grants for each grad student.

Yes, if the intent is to hurt Federally-funded research at major universities, this is a well-designed proposal. (Our facilities are ... not cheap.) And making graduate school unaffordable is a nice bonus.

> Why tax graduate student tuition wavers and not those of the student athletes? You know, the football players for example?

The question answers itself, doesn't it. You tax behavior you want to discourage.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:45 AM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


(If I were Carter Page I'd have to hire a food taster and wear body armor at all times to ward off polonium-laced umbrella pokes.)

Pema Levy, Mother Jones: Trump Pick for Top Civil Rights Enforcer Has Made a Career of Fighting Discrimination Claims
From 2003 to 2005, Dreiband served as general counsel of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), a government agency with the power to prosecute discrimination in employment. Dreiband has characterized his record at the EEOC as one of “aggressive enforcement,” where he oversaw hundreds of cases and forced companies to pay hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. After leaving government, Dreiband cashed in on his tenure at the EEOC to start working on behalf of companies fighting off discrimination suits brought by his former employer.
So, like, can we come up with a pithy name for this sort of thing, where Trump's picks for everything is like hiring a wolf to guard the sheep? It's eminently clear to me that this Dreiband guy only worked at EEOC in order to prop up his plan to cash in on that experience to fight the EEOC. ARGH, this is maddening.
posted by xyzzy at 11:46 AM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]




That's what I'm talking about. Sessions needs gone yesterday. I don't give a shit if his successor fires Mueller immediately.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:51 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


A year ago today I paid the $5 to create a Metafilter account after years of lurking. I was ready for the election to be over and used that feeling to pick a username. On another MeFite's suggestion, I bought discounted Halloween pet costumes to lighten my mood. I would go find that comment, but it's buried in a 3000 comment pre-election mega-thread and I don't want to actually revisit the before-time.

Not sure what my point is, other than to say that I'm still here a year later, watching the political mega-threads and various news sites. Some days are more obsessive more than others. Sometimes I forget about politics for a day or more! I do still hold out hope that our national nightmare will be over one day. And I'm very thankful for Metafilter for keeping me up to date, reassuring me that yes it is as bad as it looks, but also there are things I can do in the larger world and to keep myself mentally well.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 11:51 AM on November 3, 2017 [66 favorites]


So, like, can we come up with a pithy name for this sort of thing, where Trump's picks for everything is like hiring a wolf to guard the sheep?

Regulatory capture?
posted by orange ball at 11:52 AM on November 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


Or maybe just corruption
posted by orange ball at 11:56 AM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trumpism turns Regulatory Capture into De-Regulatory Bondage...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:57 AM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


> A year ago today I paid the $5 to create a Metafilter account after years of lurking. I was ready for the election to be over ...
posted by Is It Over Yet?

Ahhh - our charming naivete of yesteryear.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:58 AM on November 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


Crony CRAPitalism?
posted by puddledork at 12:00 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Book of Franken, Letter To A Racist Elf, Chapter 5:

Nonetheless, in sworn testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, you have repeatedly stated that you personally did not communicate with Russians and that you were unaware of communications between Russians and other members of the Trump campaign. During your confirmation hearing on January 10, 2017, when confronted with reports that there was a "continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump's surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government," you stated that you were "not aware of those activities."[10] You also said that you personally "did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it." Senator Leahy later asked you, in writing, whether you had "been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day." You answered no. It was later revealed that you had, in fact, met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during the campaign-at least three times.

Ut vita male egerant loquendum sentiet mala.* HA-men.

*supposedly "May perjury ruin your life" in latin, per EvilGoogle
posted by petebest at 12:03 PM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Ahhh - our charming naivete of yesteryear.

I'm another long-time lurker who finally signed up last year. Sigh.
posted by Surely This at 12:04 PM on November 3, 2017 [54 favorites]


Post election user names have gone a different direction.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:08 PM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Egg has a good summary of the House maneuver.

@Evan_McMullin
Three of the House Republicans' nuttiest members band together in a transparently partisan assault on the rule of law.
posted by chris24 at 12:11 PM on November 3, 2017 [44 favorites]


I'm another long-time lurker who finally signed up last year. Sigh.

Me too. It's been a very long year.

It's warmed up enough that I'm going to go walk a packet and knock on doors hoping to convince my neighbors to vote yes for the mill levy override on the ballot again this year for our school district. They haven't gotten a funding increase from voters since 2000, though they've tried repeatedly to get one approved. Fingers crossed, though it's a uphill thing. Canvassing is a great thing for my mental health. It's a concrete action, determined by someone else--I get handed a packet, I go knock on those particular doors, I get to talk to a few folks about something I believe in, spend some time outside, and canvassing has an appreciable effect on voter turnout.
posted by danielleh at 12:14 PM on November 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


AP, Inside story: How Russians hacked the Democrats’ emails. There's a detailed account of the phishing campaign in here, but this stands out:
But there were signs of dishonesty from the start. The first document Guccifer 2.0 published on June 15 came not from the DNC as advertised but from Podesta’s inbox, according to a former DNC official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the press.

The official said the word “CONFIDENTIAL” was not in the original document.

Guccifer 2.0 had airbrushed it to catch reporters’ attention.
Frankly, it's November 2017, and we ought to have a basic answer to "in what ways were any of the hacked documents altered?" by now.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on November 3, 2017 [60 favorites]


WaPo, Chris Mooney, Juliet Eilperin and Brady Dennis, Trump administration releases report finding ‘no convincing alternative explanation’ for climate change
The Trump administration released a dire scientific report Friday detailing the growing threats of climate change. The report stands in stark contrast to the administration’s efforts to downplay humans’ role in global warming, withdraw from an international climate accord and reverse Obama-era policies aimed at curbing U.S. greenhouse-gas output.

The White House did not seek to prevent the release of the government’s National Climate Assessment, which is mandated by law, despite the fact that its findings sharply contradict the administration’s policies. The report affirms that climate change is driven almost entirely by human action, warns of potential sea-level rise as high as eight feet by the year 2100, and enumerates climate-related damage across the United States that is already occurring as a result of 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit of global warming since 1900.

“It is extremely likely that human influence has been the dominant cause of the observed warming since the mid-20th century,” the document reports. “For the warming over the last century, there is no convincing alternative explanation supported by the extent of the observational evidence.”
posted by zachlipton at 12:18 PM on November 3, 2017 [59 favorites]


The White House did not seek to prevent the release of the government’s National Climate Assessment

The White House believes that all science is big words and puffery; when questions arise about "what are you doing to address the problems in this report?" the response will be, "we're not going to pay attention to some ivory-tower scientist nerds to figure out how to Make America Great Again. Our policies will be based on what the people need, not what's happening to glaciers."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:21 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


"in what ways were any of the hacked documents altered"
When credible, experienced reporters work with leakers, you have at least some assurance that the reporters are going to do some due diligence to figure out how much of a leak they can verify. They don't always get everything right, of course. Many people have identified errors in leak based reporting that end up getting corrected later. But when people just do giant doc dumps at Assange's feet, there is no such assurance.

But the DNC appears to have learned some lessons. I've read recent reporting that Perez won't even text you back if you're not using encryption.
posted by xyzzy at 12:22 PM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


If you'd have told my 2009 username that Noel Fielding was going to be on GBBO...

...I'd have believed that a hundred times more than this entire Trump fiasco, tbh.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:30 PM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Daily Beast, Lachlan and Swin, Trump Offered Corey Lewandowski a New Job. Corey Turned It Down Because It Was ‘Chump Change.’
In a phone call last month, President Donald Trump pitched his ousted 2016 campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, on the idea of coming to the White House to work for him again.

The timing seemed ripe for a reunion after all. Nearly one year into the Trump era, Lewandowski had not become the massive power broker in Washington, D.C., that he’d set out to be, and was itching for an administration position. The president, meanwhile, was besieged by scandal, furious with those around him, and wanting more loyal voices and familiar faces nearby.

But despite the apparent alignment, the pitch didn’t work.

Four knowledgeable sources in and outside of the White House tell The Daily Beast that Lewandowski turned down what Trump had floated, in part because of ego. Trump had asked if he wanted a job that would place him in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, across the way from the West Wing, sources in and outside the administration say.

According to two people who spoke with Lewandowski, he “strongly” considered taking the gig, in hopes of getting to serve Trump in an official capacity once more. However, he came to the conclusion that the job wasn’t senior enough, telling friends that it was “beneath him.”
...
“[I] had heard that the president was talking about offering another job [in October to Corey] and I just kept thinking, ‘Please, God above, let this not happen,’” one senior White House official said this week.
This would be the guy that managed to get himself fired from OANN somehow. More importantly, Lewandowski is all up in the email chains with Papadapolous about Russia meetings, and Trump's insistence on getting him back inside the administration is interesting in that light.
posted by zachlipton at 12:40 PM on November 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


Trump's insistence on getting him back inside the administration is interesting in that light.

Yes. "Interesting". I guess he's going to have to appear in public without pants and put some sort of food item on his head before we see stories that plainly discuss his deteriorated mental state. On the plus side, that eventuality is distinctly possible. Perhaps on this trip.
posted by petebest at 12:45 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump Promise Tracker
It’s day 288 of the Trump administration with 1,173 days left in his term. We’re tracking the progress of 60 pledges he made during his campaign — and whether he achieved his goals.
In light of the CCC Plan, note that in his Contract on the American Voter he promised to lower the business tax rate from 35 percent to 15 percent and reduce the number of tax brackets from seven to three. The Post has those as Launched, but they'll need to update them to Broken soon.

He also isn't doing so good at creating at least 10 million jobs in the first term (+1,118,000) or growing the economy at 4 percent a year (+3%).
posted by kirkaracha at 12:49 PM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Follow the money. Worth revisiting The-Blow-It-All-Up-Billionaires; HuffPo from March. Key word Mercer.
posted by adamvasco at 12:50 PM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Frankly, it's November 2017, and we ought to have a basic answer to "in what ways were any of the hacked documents altered?" by now.

I think this all the time, is anybody looking in to this? Is this documented?
But goddam this year has just had TOO MUCH STUFF. And the supposed Fourth Estate either can't keep up or would rather just be tweet-reactive.
There needs to be something along the line of Kremlinology, Trump-ology. Make it an accredited study course.

The tell all books can't even hold it all with each of the cast of characters having their own back stories and scandals. We need Mnuchin experts, Lewandowski fellows...
posted by readery at 12:52 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm working on my doctorate in Page studies, but it looks like my funding will be cut.

Also I think the subject is a literal space alien.
posted by Salieri at 12:55 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm also a web developer who'd be interested in working on the Big Project.

Designer. I’ll throw my hat in.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:57 PM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


And the supposed Fourth Estate either can't keep up or would rather just be tweet-reactive.

Or are deliberately prevented from using the words "lie", "liar", "lying liarton firepants", "dementia", "sociopath", "treason", or strangely enough, "rutabaga". And that guy with the exposé of why there aren't taco trucks on every corner never came back.
posted by petebest at 1:03 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


AP, Inside story: How Russians hacked the Democrats’ emails.

The AP's timeline is crucial reading in understanding the DNC hack, spelling out how Russian intelligence's Fancy Bear first targetted the DNC, then how Wikileaks and Guccifer 2.0 spread the documents.

And don't forget that both Guccifer 2.0 was in direct contact with former Trump advisor Roger Stone, as was Julian Assage "through an intermediary"—which links them indirectly to the Trump Campaign. After AP's DNC story went live, Stone told Business Insider's Natasha Bertrand that he "revised" his opinion about Guccifer 2.0 "some time ago" but continues to "neither believe he is a Russian Asset or that he hacked the DNC". Back in September, Stone appeared before the House intelligence committee to answer questions about these contacts but refused to name his supposed intermediary with Assange, leaving a lot of unanswered questions about his relationships with Assange and Guccifer 2.0.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:04 PM on November 3, 2017 [14 favorites]




I want the Democratic party to lead us to victory in 2020. In order to do that, they're going to have to lead. Which means organizing your forces, getting your resources together, and figuring out how to act effectively and productively.

This is way back several hours, but I think part of the disconnect is from people thinking "The Democratic Party" is a thing that exists. The DNC isn't the Democratic Party, it's a committee that deals with national elections and has nothing to do with downballot races. On a local level, well, I know who runs the Democratic party. In that I literally know her name and she's the only one who really organizes anything in my county, and a small handful of people come out for events. (I have health and access reasons I can't get more involved.)

And if that small group of people in a rural county in a red state wanted to put together explainers of ballots, they'd have to do at LEAST five different ones just for our county, with all the different cities that have their own posts and then one for the people in unincorporated rural areas. The truth is that a lot of these positions don't even have Democrats running for them, but more frequently a Republican candidate and a third party contester. And I've struggled with the question of do I leave that blank, or do I vote for the establishment Republican because I'm more afraid of the whackjob Libertarian getting into power.

So yeah, it's not that it's not a problem, but that there isn't really party structures in place to do the kind of work that it would require.
posted by threeturtles at 1:07 PM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Carter Page is doing another interview. With Jake Tapper. Sans attorney. Right now.

Ok, I give up. I'm totally on board with this strategy. My man Carter Page is gonna bring the whole thing crashing down. When he hits that bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.

I hate almost everyone involved in this situation but for some reason I can't bring myself to hate this guy. He's so stupid.
posted by Justinian at 1:09 PM on November 3, 2017 [59 favorites]


The way Carter Page just said "Absolutely............not in that sense, no" with the longest damn pause in between to a question about whether anyone in Russia offered to help with the campaign was incredible.
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on November 3, 2017 [34 favorites]


"lying liarton firepants"

This was my favorite Super Mario Bros. reboot

On another note, I feel that the absurdist phantasmagoria that is the inside of petebest's mental universe is increasingly convergent with reality and I don't know what happens when they finally collide.
posted by tivalasvegas at 1:13 PM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just go ahead and hate him. It's possible to be stupid AND evil and mean.
posted by phearlez at 1:14 PM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


Every time he says Dodgy Dossier it sounds more and more like a drag name
posted by theodolite at 1:15 PM on November 3, 2017 [58 favorites]


More importantly, Page said he told other people besides Sessions about his Moscow trip and then refused to say who he told.
posted by zachlipton at 1:15 PM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


So yeah, it's not that it's not a problem, but that there isn't really party structures in place to do the kind of work that it would require.

That's the problem right there.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:21 PM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


While I'm great at having ideas, I don't have the expertise or the energy to lead the database project we've been talking about. Chronic disease has limited my abilities considerably.

If anyone else would like to take the lead on this, please feel free. I'll contribute however I can.
posted by MrVisible at 1:26 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]




I'm more afraid of the whackjob Libertarian getting into power.

Our party system just put a narcissistic Nazi whackjob in power. That just happened. The party system makes the possibility of an organized group of radicals with an extreme agenda taking over and consolidating power more likely, not less, because it makes a bunch of otherwise independently responsible people responsible to a formal party and its funding sources first, before they ever even reach office, the independence of their interests are already compromised at least to that limited degree from the start. Doesn’t have to work that way.
posted by saulgoodman at 1:29 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I think I missed the summary of this project and can't find it with "big project" or "database" ctrl+f on this page... can someone link back to it?
posted by cybertaur1 at 1:30 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


just sayin'...
today it's a year plus five days since Trump was elected. Also year plus five days since I successfully interviewed for my present job. A year plus four days that my mom told me that her cancer had come back. A year plus 7 1/2 weeks before she passed away. It's been a helluva year. But whatever:


Today we bought a bottle of not-too-expensive French bubbly for the moment a new president is announced.
It's in the fridge, because it needs to be cold when we need it.
It needs to be cheap, because, seriously. I don't want to spend any money on this, but what the hey, you gotta have some fun...
posted by Namlit at 1:31 PM on November 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


The discussion about a database that posts easily accessible Democratic endorsements for local races started with this comment, and there's discussion interspersed throughout the rest of the thread.
posted by MrVisible at 1:34 PM on November 3, 2017


Just go ahead and hate him. It's possible to be stupid AND evil and mean.

For real. I find that these three traits are grouped together more often than not.
posted by EatTheWeek at 1:36 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Universities will just set domestic graduate tuition for funded programs to be really low if this passes. It's all just funny money anyway when they set a tuition and then waive it.

This is not true. The tuition waivers that graduate research assistants get are supported by research grants, not by university funds. So, when I employ a graduate student in my lab, I -- the PI -- shell out ~$25K for their stipend (ie, their takehome pay) plus ~$15K for their tuition (which is the reduced rate that my private, R1 university charges PIs; it's much less than the tuition they'd pay out-of-pocket). The cost of their tuition comes out of my grants as a direct cost and goes straight into the university's coffers, and the grad receives a "waiver."


Uh you just made my point. Your university sets an arbitrarily different tuition for your grant funded students.
posted by srboisvert at 1:37 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


can someone link back to it?

It's around-and-about: Curmudgeionly MeFites . . . Assemble!

see also Ragtag Team

voting guides
posted by petebest at 1:38 PM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


Your university sets an arbitrarily different tuition for your grant funded students.

But it's not arbitrary. That money is actually paid - from the grant funding to the university's general coffers. If the tuition were lower, the university would get less money.
posted by mosst at 1:39 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]




I knew Trump was damaging my brain. I just didn't expect the damage to be physical.
posted by zachlipton at 1:41 PM on November 3, 2017 [29 favorites]


Re: screwing with grad students by making the stipends taxable, I remember that this was proposed when I was in grad school. That would have been fy 98 or so. It didn't pass then, which isn't to say that you should be complacent, but it's inclusion is probably so that it can be dropped as a compromise.
posted by Horselover Fat at 1:42 PM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


petebest you mean something like Hoodline's SF 2016 Election Guide, but larger-scale? You can select sources you want to consider and then see who they endorse.
posted by cybertaur1 at 1:48 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


"377 Union Street will forever be known as the building that lead (sic) to the collapse of the presidency of Donald J. Trump," the plaque read.

If Fake News can spell led correctly, why can't the predisent?
posted by elsietheeel at 1:48 PM on November 3, 2017


>> Uh you just made my point. Your university sets an arbitrarily different tuition for your grant funded students.

> But it's not arbitrary. That money is actually paid - from the grant funding to the university's general coffers. If the tuition were lower, the university would get less money.

Exactly.

And it should be noted the only reason the university has a separate "PI rate" for tuition (which is lower than the tuition they charge people out-of-pocket) is that the NIH sets limits for allowable tuition that can be charged on a grant. The university sets things up so that they can take the maximum possible amount per grad student from each grant for the tuition waiver, and it is absolutely not in their interest to reduce tuition below that amount.
posted by Westringia F. at 1:48 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


"...its inclusion is probably so that it can be dropped as a compromise."
Yeah, this kind of tactic seems to be all there is to Trump's vaunted Art of the Deal: your first offer is so bad it stinks of hellfire and brimstone, and then your opponent, maddened with fear, can't make a reasonable counteroffer. In the end you get a "great deal" in which you get all you want and the opponent gets a few scraps. And then you don't actually come across with the scraps. And you never go to jail for some reason, even though you defraud people over and over and over again for decades and ruin vast portions of NYC and also television.
posted by Don Pepino at 1:52 PM on November 3, 2017 [35 favorites]


Eugene Kaspersky said his company’s widely used antivirus software has copied files that did not threaten the personal computers of customers, a sharp departure from industry practice that could increase suspicions that the Moscow-based firm aids Russian spies.

ffs. Tfa didn't mention:

Wikipedia-
Kaspersky graduated from The Technical Faculty of the KGB Higher School in 1987 with a degree in mathematical engineering and computer technology.
This is necessary context.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:54 PM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


“John Miller”?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:01 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


My bet: Reince Priebus
posted by Existential Dread at 2:03 PM on November 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


The source maintains that he is innocent and is frustrated that he has so far failed to clear his name in the ongoing probe

Earlier this year this individual dismissed any suggestion that there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and Russian operatives.

Who gets frustrated and dismisses things? Hmm...seems a little...spicy
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:04 PM on November 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


> Paul Manafort's NYC townhouse

I can’t help pointing out that literally around the corner is a barbershop (of the new-old variety Brooklyn’s famous for) called: PERSONS OF INTEREST

c'mon, lazy writers
posted by miles per flower at 2:04 PM on November 3, 2017 [21 favorites]


Yeah. If you're thinking about ballot guides, San Francisco is an interesting model. We have the official voter guide, which includes excellent "plain language" descriptions written by a local nonpartisian committee along with the usual paid arguments. We have party endorsements. We have lots of local groups, from organized Democratic clubs (including affinity-related groups like LGBT Democratic Clubs, Jewish Democratic Clubs, Asian-American Democratic Clubs, etc..., neighborhood groups, business associations, etc...) that meet with candidates, do endorsements, and mail slate cards (with funding for such slate cards coming from the endorsed candidates, so yeah) to the League of Pissed off Voters, who are kind enough to explain their reasoning on every issue. We have unions that do endorsements. And we have newspaper endorsements.

Then all of those wind up in the mega-hopper that is the Hoodline guide of guides cybertaur1 just linked, so you can make sense of all of it. This is all necessary because we're entirely too fond of direct democracy around here and can wind up with dozens of state and local ballot measures.

But I'm pretty convinced that the best way to do this stuff is local. Some big national site is going to wind up as a mess like Ballotpedia can be. There are already entirely too many "find out what's on your ballot" sites. The hard part is providing the local information, not the engineering. It really takes the legwork of sorting through this stuff through in your community, not some coders throwing up a website.

But that's totally a thing you can do! Are there Democratic Clubs or other organizations that do endorsements where you live? Join one. Not that many people do, so you can have a pretty immediate impact just by showing up. Or start one. Find some people near you who like to talk politics, argue about everything on the ballot for a while, and synthesize your arguments down to a ballot guide. Put it online in a quick-and-dirty site, print out leaflets, etc... (Note that printing and distributing leaflets like this may at some scale may, in some areas, legally be considered campaigning, which requires financial reporting.) If there's already lots of people making endorsements but no aggregator, then be the aggregator.

It would be nice if Hoodline could release their tool as open source, or maybe there could be a new version of it designed to work in other areas. The Hoodline folks are pretty nice, so I'll ask around for 2018.
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


cjelli: I don't have any good guesses about who gave interview, but it does confirm to me that the Mueller investigation will be one mad dash of flipping, backstabbing, and under-the-bus-throwing. If you want to be a tyrant, either you have to be smart and well-connected and ruthless enough to run a tight ship, so that betrayal risks a swift and sure punishment, or, you have to treat at least some of your staff and direct reports well so that they feel a personal loyalty to you.

The Trump administration has none of this; the only loyalty Seeping Baby Man can count on is Ivanka (probably), his rabid base, and any Republican congresscritters who Just Don't Care as long as long as they can rob from the poor to give to the rich.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:06 PM on November 3, 2017 [16 favorites]


My bet: Reince Priebus

He can't clear his name because his name is an impenetrable mystery! It all makes sense.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:13 PM on November 3, 2017 [35 favorites]


something like Hoodline's SF 2016 Election Guide, but larger-scale?

Yes, quite. National, with zipcode focused ballots and local crowdsourcing. Plus cat gifs. And cake.
posted by petebest at 2:22 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


The 'earlier this year' part about the dismissals is 100% Spicer. He hasn't denied recently because it's not his job to do anymore. If this is not Sean Spicer, I will cake it up.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:22 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


And it should be noted the only reason the university has a separate "PI rate" for tuition

yarrrrrrrr

(sorry)
posted by azpenguin at 2:28 PM on November 3, 2017 [47 favorites]


How is Spicer going to know fuck all about anything?
posted by Artw at 2:28 PM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


National, with zipcode focused ballots

Minor caveat: There is no relationship between ZIPs and districts. District maps do whatever the fuck they want, regardless of whatever USPS does. The service should map a full address to a ballot.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:29 PM on November 3, 2017 [14 favorites]


Minor caveat: There is no relationship between ZIPs and districts.

Yes, this. You can start with zips for rough details, but I'm not even sure they work for congressional districts; they certainly don't work for state zones.

Part of that is gerrymandering, and part isn't - Zip codes are designed based on mail delivery. 5000 people in the same zip code because there are three major apartment buildings crammed with residents may split into two zones for city council, because those are split by number of people, not ease of access.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 2:40 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Re: screwing with grad students by making the depends taxable, I remember that this was proposed when I was in grad school. That would have been fy 98 or so. It didn't pass then, which isn't to say that you should be complacent, but it's inclusion is probably so that it can be dropped as a compromise.

HR 3620 (105th Cong; Dick Gephardt, D-MO, sponsor) proposed repealing it in 1998; GOP controlled the house and wanted a national sales tax at the time, so the bill never made it out of committee.

Other history: HR 5078 (111th Cong.; Dem sponsor) proposed expanding it by swapping "tuition" for "qualified higher education expenses" - same with HR 1407 (110th Cong). HR 5176 (109th Cong.; Rahm Emmanuel sponsor) proposed repealing it, but would have provided a credit up to $3k for up to two years of grad school tuition.

IIRC, there was also a big fight at one point about whether universities would have to report the taxable portion of a stipend (they currently don't), which may have also happened in the late 90s, but I can't find anything on that from quick googling.
posted by melissasaurus at 2:40 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


PSA for those who have had free access to the Washington Post via an edu email address: That program is ending and being replaced by an academic rate offer. You can still get a free subscription using a .gov or .mil address. I can't find a link, so here's some the text of the email I recieved:

As we continue to invest in resources to provide quality journalism, we have launched an Academic Rate representing a 50% discount off our standard Basic Digital monthly subscription. This rate is available exclusively to current educators and college students...Thank you for reading The Washington Post. Please enjoy your complimentary access through the end of this year.
posted by terooot at 2:49 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


How is Spicer going to know fuck all about anything?

I wouldn't wrote him off. He knows where the easter eggs are buried.
posted by saturday_morning at 2:50 PM on November 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Yeah, but the event he was the bunny for is an Easter Egg roll, so maybe he'll roll over and talk.
posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Didn't Spicer just talk at length all over Harvard "off the record"?
posted by Sublimity at 3:03 PM on November 3, 2017


Bloomberg: House Tax-Cut Plan Hurtles Toward Senate Roadblock
“The bill has a massive Byrd rule problem,” said Bill Hoagland, a former Republican Senate Budget Committee staff director.
posted by chris24 at 3:14 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


You can start with zips for rough details, but I'm not even sure they work for congressional districts

They don't. My zip code in Philadelphia is divided into two congressional districts (PA-01 Bob Brady and PA-02 Dwight Evans).
posted by mcduff at 3:22 PM on November 3, 2017


well I just tweeted for 45 to DIE MAD ABOUT IT so if I disappear it was worth it
posted by Space Kitty at 3:23 PM on November 3, 2017 [25 favorites]


Corker rips Trump on his Sessions/DOJ/Clinton comments.
Corker Statement on Importance of an Independent Justice System
WASHINGTON — U.S. Senator Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) today released the following statement on the importance of an independent justice system after reports that President Donald J. Trump refused to rule out firing Attorney General Jeff Sessions if the Department of Justice does not investigate what the president wishes.

"Like me, most Americans hope that our justice system is independent and free of political interference," said Corker. "President Trump's pressuring of the Justice Department and FBI to pursue cases against his adversaries and calling for punishment before trials take place are totally inappropriate and not only undermine our justice system but erode the American people's confidence in our institutions."
posted by chris24 at 3:37 PM on November 3, 2017 [34 favorites]


Hey so where are all my antifa peeps meeting up for the civil war tomorrow? You guys want to get some coffee first?
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 3:39 PM on November 3, 2017 [32 favorites]


The full zip code is nine digits and narrows it down to the block in most places.
posted by VTX at 3:42 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


aw nuts, that's tomorrow?? I still have to get my machete sharpened
posted by rifflesby at 3:42 PM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]




'Exvangelicals': why more religious people are rejecting the evangelical label

Just accelerating the larger demographic trend.

Up until about a decade ago, most of the decline among white Protestants was confined to mainline Protestants, such as Episcopalians, United Methodists, or Presbyterians, who populate the more liberal branch of the white Protestant family tree. The mainline numbers dropped earlier and more sharply — from 24 percent of the population in 1988 to 14 percent in 2012, at which time their numbers generally stabilized.

But over the last decade, we have seen marked decline among white evangelical Protestants, the more conservative part of the white Protestant family. White evangelical Protestants comprised 22 percent of the population in 1988 and still commanded 21 percent of the population in 2008, but their share of the religious market had slipped to 18 percent at the time the book went to press, and our latest 2015 numbers show an additional one-percentage-point slip to 17 percent.

posted by leotrotsky at 3:57 PM on November 3, 2017 [17 favorites]






Hey so where are all my antifa peeps meeting up for the civil war tomorrow? You guys want to get some coffee first?

Damn dude, I totally forgot. Not that I'm not hardcore, because I am. It's just that I need to return the carpet cleaner before 6:30 or pay a late fee. Are we gonna be done by then? I get up kind of late too, so...
posted by bongo_x at 4:19 PM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


Aw, crap, is the civil war tomorrow? We're supposed to pick up a new kitten.
We really are.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:20 PM on November 3, 2017 [65 favorites]


WaPo, Central Americans and Haitians no longer need protected status, State Dept. says
More than 300,000 Central Americans and Haitians living in the United States under a form of temporary permission no longer need to be shielded from deportation, the State Department told Homeland Security officials this week, a few days ahead of a highly anticipated DHS announcement about whether to renew that protection.

On Tuesday, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson sent a letter to acting DHS secretary Elaine Duke to inform her that conditions in Central America and Haiti that had been used to justify the protection no longer necessitate a reprieve for the migrants, some of whom have been allowed to live and work in the United States for 20 years under a program known as Temporary Protected Status (TPS).
This would pave the way for deportations after people have their TPS status expire. DHS has yet to make an announcement as to their plans.
posted by zachlipton at 4:25 PM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


*troops delay deployment kitten repeat kitten adoption in progress*
posted by angrycat at 4:28 PM on November 3, 2017 [58 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: 11 minutes in heaven: When Trump disappeared from Twitter
President Trump disappeared from Twitter in the autumn. The night was warm, the Internet almost deserted. The mercury rose in the mouth of the dying year. All the instruments we have agreed that the evening of his disappearance was vanishing pleasant and mild.

He was gone for 11 minutes, a little before 7 p.m. on a Thursday.

The first minute, people could scarcely believe that it had happened. Suddenly, the news seemed realer. Everyone ran to the newspapers and marveled at all the actual facts that they contained.

Everywhere on Capitol Hill, people who had been turned into abject, writhing puddles felt their spines grow back. The enchantment at last was broken. A sad antique clock that had been presiding over the Senate resumed its human shape. People who for months had only gone by “Crazy Bernie” or “Liddle’ Bob” remembered their true names. The last petal that had been about to fall from the rose of democracy halted, mid-air.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:47 PM on November 3, 2017 [60 favorites]


This would pave the way for deportations after people have their TPS status expire.
I believe this is why Canada has such an influx of people from these groups already. It was already in the wind that this would be happening.
posted by xyzzy at 4:49 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Immigration agents release 10-year-old girl with cerebral palsy after ACLU lawsuit

Wonkette: Radical ACLU Acts Like Undocumented Little Girl Still Human, Is That Even Allowed?
posted by homunculus at 4:53 PM on November 3, 2017 [17 favorites]


Can't antifa murder spree tomorrow - haven't gotten my 10 bajillion dollar check from Soros yet. Sorry - this revolutionary can't work for free
posted by Golem XIV at 4:53 PM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


NBC: Papadopoulos Repeatedly Represented Trump Campaign, Record Shows
The Trump administration has downplayed the role of foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos during the 2016 presidential campaign. But the public record shows that Papadopoulos, who attempted to set up a meeting between Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin, was a more prominent figure than previously understood.

Papadopoulos was in Cleveland during the Republican National Convention where he was invited by the American Jewish Committee to speak on a panel about U.S. foreign policy, organizers said.

"Papadopolous was only one among the many contacts AJC established and maintained among advisers to both parties’ 2016 presidential candidates and in the two parties’ national committees," AJC spokesperson Ken Bandler said in a statement.

"Among the panelists in our 2016 Republican National Convention program — in a session titled 'Defining America’s Role in Global Affairs' — was George Papadopolous, then a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser," the statement continued.

The AJC forum, occurred on the third day of the RNC in downtown Cleveland. Papadopolous sat on a panel with Reps. Tom Marina, R-Pa., and Ted Yoho, R-Fla., both members of the House Foreign Affairs Committee while Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, gave opening remarks. [...]

Papadopoulos’ public role for the Trump campaign continued. In late September, just six weeks before Election Day, he gave an interview as a Trump campaign official to the Russian Interfax News Agency, where he said that Trump will “restore the trust” between the U.S. and Russia.

And he met with Israeli leaders during the inauguration in January as a foreign policy adviser for the newly-sworn in president. “We are looking forward to ushering in a new relationship with all of Israel, including the historic Judea and Samaria,” Papadopoulos told the Jerusalem Post the following day.
posted by chris24 at 4:55 PM on November 3, 2017 [20 favorites]


> Hey so where are all my antifa peeps meeting up for the civil war tomorrow? You guys want to get some coffee first?

sorry I have to do math homework :( :( :( maybe next weekend??
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:00 PM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Not fucking around with the leverage.

Bloomberg: Cyprus Gave Manafort’s Bank Records to Mueller Team, Sources Say
Authorities in Cyprus handed over bank and company records to U.S. investigators late last week related to former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and his business partner Rick Gates, just before they were indicted in the U.S., according to people familiar with the probe.

The Cypriot government was responding to a June 7 request from U.S. investigators for records related to Manafort, Gates and companies they set up in Cyprus and the Seychelles, the people said. The pair of U.S. consultants had at least 15 accounts on the island with Bank of Cyprus and a bank it took over in 2013, Cyprus Popular Bank, one of the people said.

Only a small part of the request from the investigative team headed by U.S. Special Counsel Robert Mueller hasn’t been answered yet, the people said. A Bank of Cyprus spokesman declined to comment.
posted by chris24 at 5:05 PM on November 3, 2017 [39 favorites]


[quickly deletes links as lalex posts them first, to the sound of the pee tape alarm blaring in the background]

Politico, Darren Samuelsohn, Trump's push for inquiries challenges Justice Dept. independence:

On their own, several of Trump’s remarks have raised alarm for the effect they could have on active legal proceedings. Bergdahl’s lead attorney said that the president’s previous remarks about the case could be used during the appeals process to get any sentence overturned. In the Papadopoulos case, former Watergate prosecutor Nick Akerman warned that the president had defamed a potential government witness who is likely to be called in a federal trial.

This could be grounds for Mueller to obtain a gag order on Trump,” Akerman said. “It would be unprecedented, but he is interfering with the government’s right to a fair trial.”

Randall Samborn, a former assistant U.S. attorney in Chicago, said that examining all of the president’s remarks in total “causes a real sadness for anyone who believes in and is dedicated to the idea of independent law enforcement and independent judicial proceedings.”

The Times fills in more details on what happened with Trump's Twitter account: Twitter’s Panic After Trump’s Account Is Deleted Caps a Rough Week. It was done by a contractor, and Twitter has thought about implementing more controls to prevent wide internal access to everyone's accounts, but didn't do so.

posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on November 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Tomorrow, to complete the blood-rite required to join ANTIFA, I will ruthlessly take six months worth of cardboard boxes I have meticulously flattened to the town dump, and shove them without remorse into the cardboard recycling dumpster! Not only that, I will hurl two broken pedestal fans and a broken AC window unit into the metal recycling bin! I didn't even take them to the scrap metal for cash place, denying the capitalists their filthy due, as it's way on the other side of town and kinda skeevy.

NO. MERCY.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:15 PM on November 3, 2017 [53 favorites]


Hey so where are all my antifa peeps meeting up for the civil war tomorrow? You guys want to get some coffee first?

I’m busy drawing moustaches on photos of Bob Avakian.
posted by corb at 5:17 PM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


WaPo, Heather Long, The GOP’s model family gets a tax cut in year 1 … and a tax hike in year 7:
House Speaker Paul D. Ryan spoke often Thursday (and tweeted) about how a typical family of four that makes $59,000 a year would get a $1,182 tax cut, but that's only in the first year. There are already serious doubts about how much the middle class benefits from the GOP plan — and for how long.

Ryan's correct that $59,000 is smack dab in the middle of the income spectrum. It's the median income in the United States, meaning half of households make more in a year and half make less. He's also right that this family would pay $1,182 less than they paid in 2017. But that model family would get a tax hike by 2024, according to an analysis by David Kamin, a tax law professor at New York University.

It's “totally absurd,” Kamin says. “The tax cuts for the middle class are all front loaded.”
Comes complete with a handy graph. This isn't some particular hypothetical situation chosen to make the plan look bad. This is the exact model family Paul Ryan came up with to sell the plan. There's more detailed analysis (pdf) from the JCT in Distribution Effects Of The Chairman's Amendment In The Nature Of A Substitute To H.R.1, The "Tax Cuts And Jobs Act,", if you're a nerd.

The trick is that they're selling the bill with one set of numbers, while using another for the budgetary effects. They say, look, a family making $59K/year will get a tax break, lots of tax cuts for the middle class here. But that's just based on what happens in year 1. By the time we get to just 2023, the JCT's analysis is that families making $20-30K year would already start to see a tax increase. Millionaires get their tax cuts all along though, and people at other incomes see weird stuff like cuts followed by increases followed by cuts. I've snipped the most relevant data tables from the JCT analysis for easy marvling at the absurdity of this.

If you press them, they'll say that of course the cuts would be extended, but you don't get to claim your plan costs a certain amount if it's based on "of course we'll spend more later."
posted by zachlipton at 5:21 PM on November 3, 2017 [42 favorites]


The Cypriot government was responding to a June 7 request from U.S. investigators for records related to Manafort, Gates and companies they set up in Cyprus and the Seychelles, the people said. The pair of U.S. consultants had at least 15 accounts on the island with Bank of Cyprus and a bank it took over in 2013, Cyprus Popular Bank, one of the people said.

Say, isn't Trump Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross vice-chairman of the board of the Bank of Cyprus? Why, yes. Yes he is. What a coinkydink.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:22 PM on November 3, 2017 [52 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: 11 minutes in heaven: When Trump disappeared from Twitter

Can we activate a facebook-style heart react for this comment alone?

Because, my God. The idea of this weight of fear and anger, lifted for a few sane minutes.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:26 PM on November 3, 2017 [12 favorites]


So doing some research inspired by the thread about what's on the ballot on Tuesday in Texas (only constitutional amendments) and discovered the interesting fact that under Texas's newish voter ID law, a state handgun license works as official ID. Gee, I wonder if members of a certain party are more likely to have one of those...

Also the actual law thanks to court decisions has been effectively undermined except as a fear-invoking deterrent. Because it says "Voters Must Show Photo ID" and then under it in smaller print "unless they don't have a photo id, in which case they can show any of these other proofs of identity" followed by a long list. Sigh.
posted by threeturtles at 5:36 PM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Politico, Bots stoke racial strife in Virginia governor's race, in which a report commissioned by Northam supporters says the bots are all over the place in the VA election.
posted by zachlipton at 5:45 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]



Hey so where are all my antifa peeps meeting up for the civil war tomorrow? You guys want to get some coffee first?


I shall be training my child as a radical ninja warrior (also known as taking him to gymnastics class--we're under deep cover, shhhhhh!)
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:45 PM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Yeah, something tells me his idea of fair is letting him off. And the Manafort explanation sounds totally legit.

Trump: I'll be proven innocent if Mueller treats 'everything fairly'
President Trump says that he is confident he'll be proven innocent in the Russia election meddling investigation if special counsel Robert Mueller treats "everything fairly."

"Well I hope he’s treating everything fairly and if he is I’m going to be very happy because when you talk about innocent, I am truly not involved in any form of collusion with Russia," the president said on Sharyl Attkisson's show "Full Measure" in a wide-ranging interview to be aired Sunday across the Sinclair Broadcast Group's affiliates nationwide. "Believe me. The last thing I can think of to be involved in."

Asked if he would consider firing Mueller, Trump said he was confident he would be absolved of wrong-doing.

Trump also described how he hired Paul Manafort as his campaign chairman in 2016 at the recommendation of a friend.

"Well it was a friend of mine who was a businessman, very successful businessman and a good person. And you know Paul was not there very long," Trump explained.

He did not name the friend before he proceeded to describe how Manafort was forced to leave the campaign in August 2016.

"Well I think we found out something about him may be involved with ... certain nations and I don't even know exactly what it was in particular but there was a point at which we just felt Paul would be better off because we don't want to have any potential conflicts," he said.
posted by chris24 at 5:46 PM on November 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


It’s Dangerous How Far Right the “Moderate” Position on Abortion Has Been Pulled

THIS.
This is what I've been screaming about for what seems like ages, and it's like howling into the void. The response I get from mainstream Democrats is "But we need to be a big tent" and from the Left, "Let's take care of Healthcare/Basic Income first". Because the fundamental rights of over half the population of the US is "Identity Politics", to be ignored or bargained away.

I have no hope anymore. Gilead is coming, and it won't matter if it's coming from the Right or Left. But the white men will either have their tax cuts, or their Medicare for all.
posted by happyroach at 5:56 PM on November 3, 2017 [63 favorites]


Hey so where are all my antifa peeps meeting up for the civil war tomorrow? You guys want to get some coffee first?

Shoot, I’ve got to wash my hair. I guess you can say I

*removes sunglasses*

can’tifa.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:58 PM on November 3, 2017 [33 favorites]


OK, I was going to write this whole emotional multi-generational Roots-style story about how this works.

But nope, can't be bothered. SO BASICALLY seventy-five years ago everyone felt like they had to be members of a good protestant church to be In Society but as the 60s and 70s happened people realized that they could meet potential mates, hang out with friends, fulfill gossiping needs, etc. outside of the Church Structure.

Evangelicals responded the other way: they said that mainline churches were dying because of all the folks that were going just went because social judginess. (They weren't entirely wrong.) (Also, mainline churches were exhibiting a disturbing tendency to start dealing at some level with the history of racial and gender discrimination in society and in the Church.)

So the mainline churches (Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, moderate Baptists, etc.) got squeezed from both ends, the secular um-yeah-I-don't-believe-this-anymore side and the cultural-theological-dogmatic side.

That's now hitting the evangelical churches.

And fuck them very much. As a devout Christian, I'm looking forward to the time when "Christians" are actual followers of a Person who called all persons to see one another as beloved, and to see our mandate as caring for the well-being of the whole world.
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:58 PM on November 3, 2017 [60 favorites]


NYT's got a story about the latest Carter Page news: Trump Campaign Adviser Met With Russian Officials in 2016
Carter Page, a foreign policy adviser to the Trump presidential campaign, met Russian government officials during a July 2016 trip he took to Moscow, according to testimony he gave on Thursday to the House Intelligence Committee.

Shortly after the trip, Mr. Page sent an email to at least one Trump campaign aide describing insights he had after conversations with government officials, legislators and business executives during his time in Moscow, according to one person familiar with the contents of the message. The email was read aloud during the closed-door testimony.

The new details of the trip present a different picture than the account Mr. Page has given during numerous appearances in the news media in recent months and are yet another example of a Trump campaign adviser meeting with Russians officials during the 2016 campaign. In multiple interviews with The New York Times, he had either denied meeting with any Russian government officials during the July 2016 visit or sidestepped the question, saying he met with “mostly scholars.”

Mr. Page confirmed the meetings in an interview on Friday evening, but played down their significance.

“I had a very brief hello to a couple of people, that was it,” he said. He said one of the people he met was a “senior person,” but would not confirm the person’s identity.
Gosh, the guy who was and is incredibly evasive when he was asked what he was up to was...hiding something? The story also says he was questioned about a trip he took to Budapest during the campaign.
posted by zachlipton at 6:02 PM on November 3, 2017 [19 favorites]


I've lived in Hawaii through Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, and Obama. They all visited Hawaii at one point - Obama, naturally, was out here umpty billion times. At no point through all of these presidents as traffic screwed up out here for more than an hour or so. Trump comes into town and essentially they've shut the highway down for the whole day. Traffic is insane.

I mean, this question sort of answers itself, but is his team really so totally incompetent that they can't figure out how to visit Pearl Harbor without grinding the entire state to halt?
posted by Joey Michaels at 6:03 PM on November 3, 2017 [37 favorites]


I have the uneasy feeling that Page testimony and comments are noise to mess up the signal.
posted by klarck at 6:09 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Carter Page ... met Russian government officials during a July 2016 trip he took to Moscow

From the "USA V. GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS" document:

On or about May 21, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS emailed another highranking Campaign official, with the subject line "Request from Russia to meet Mr. Trump." The email included the May 4 MFA Email and added: "Russia has been eager to meet Mr. Trump for quite sometime and have been reaching out to me to discuss."

The government notes that the official forwarded defendant PAPADOPOULOS's email to another Campaign official (without including defendant PAPADOPOULOS) and stated: "Let[']s discuss. We need someone to communicate that DT is not doing these trips. It should be someone low level in the campaign so as not to send any signal."

I'm not saying that low level person was Carter Page, but it was probably Carter Page.
posted by diogenes at 6:12 PM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


KQED, Scott Shafer, California Republicans Decline to Join Push for Federal Aid After Deadly Fires

Just one of 14 California House Republicans signed a letter requesting disaster aid for the fires.
posted by zachlipton at 6:17 PM on November 3, 2017 [22 favorites]


Oh yeah, and remember when Carter Page so memorably told Chris Hayes that he may have met with Russian officials, but it was definitely only in Cleveland. So much for "only in Cleveland."
posted by diogenes at 6:18 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Only in Cleveland.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:22 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


As Trump visits Pearl Harbor, a reminder that his campaign advisor Roger Stone believes in the Pearl Harbor advance-knowledge conspiracy theory (his account is suspended, but you can search for tweets in the archive)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:26 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


Reince Priebus

Hey I thought we agreed no derogatory names
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:31 PM on November 3, 2017 [21 favorites]


seventy-five years ago everyone felt like they had to be members of a good protestant church

Except for, you know, Catholics. Who are kind of part of "everyone". "Felt they had to be members of a church", full stop, maybe; Protestant? no.
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 6:31 PM on November 3, 2017 [7 favorites]


I mean, this question sort of answers itself, but is his team really so totally incompetent that they can't figure out how to visit Pearl Harbor without grinding the entire state to halt?

Those other presidential entourages didn't have to also accomodate three shifts of Russian handlers for every single member of the team.
posted by srboisvert at 6:32 PM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm not a professional investigator or anything, but it seems like if you fill in the names of the various campaign officials in the Papadopoulos document, you've already shown collusion. And I'm pretty sure that includes Sessions.
posted by diogenes at 6:36 PM on November 3, 2017 [10 favorites]


Mr. Page acknowledged his meeting with Russian government officials during sharp questioning by Representative Adam B. Schiff of California.

Getting Carter Page to give a straight answer counts as a superpower, doesn't it?
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:39 PM on November 3, 2017 [13 favorites]


Mr. Page acknowledged his meeting with Russian government officials during sharp questioning by Representative Adam B. Schiff of California

It's pretty funny that he's been lying about this for over a year, but then crumbles under "sharp questioning."
posted by diogenes at 6:43 PM on November 3, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's pretty funny that he's been lying about this for over a year, but then crumbles under "sharp questioning."

And after all Chris Hayes did for him! He thought they were bros! Tsk, tsk.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:46 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel like the house of cards has already come tumbling down, but most of the country hasn't noticed yet.
posted by diogenes at 6:47 PM on November 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


I mean, this question sort of answers itself, but is his team really so totally incompetent that they can't figure out how to visit Pearl Harbor without grinding the entire state to halt?

Well, that and making it a giant power play where the whole island suddenly revolves around his presence.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:53 PM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Except for, you know, Catholics. Who are kind of part of "everyone". "Felt they had to be members of a church", full stop, maybe; Protestant? no.

You have quoted... badly. Specifically you left out the part about "polite society," which Catholics were not considered entirely a part of by the WASP power structure that defined what "polite society" meant for a good chunk of the 20th century. (see: fear of Catholics used as a cudgel against Al Smith, see also even the Kennedys even in the 1960s having to answer pointed questions about being Catholic).
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:54 PM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


But the white men will either have their tax cuts, or their Medicare for all.

That is an odd and implausible juxtaposition of two policies with entirely different levels of probability in this country.
posted by Apocryphon at 6:55 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm wondering win Mueller is going to haul in Jill Stein and David Clarke. There's not been much news about their trips to Russia (yet)
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:57 PM on November 3, 2017 [8 favorites]


Yes, as YKTAB insinuates, I was voicing the innate assumptions of WASP 1950s assumptions about religion. I am sorry if I didn't make my sarcasm clear.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:13 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I feel like the house of cards has already come tumbling down

The Kevin Spacey thread is here...
posted by uosuaq at 7:18 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


I hate to raise the specter of the JCPL but I'm getting serious deja vu (Donna "James Comey" Brazile!) in Virginia. Someone in Virginia reassure me. Pls.
posted by Justinian at 7:19 PM on November 3, 2017 [17 favorites]




The story also says he was questioned about a trip he took to Budapest during the campaign.

Says who?

>March 18, 2017 Palmer Report theorized that Cohen could’ve hitched a ride with Rybolovlev from the Hamptons to Croatia and Budapest.

(and, separately) >>see this intruiging blog, which argues:

Who were the principals on „The Budapest Bridge” the FBI and Congress should investigate particularly closely, apart from Arthur Finkelstein ? The investigations should include Jo Anne Barnhart, Finkelstein’s close personal friend, and managing director of the Hungarian government’s secretive lobby arm in the US, the „Magyar Foundation”. It should include another Finkelstein protegé, and Hungarian lobbyist, ex-congressman Connie Mack IV. The latter is the recipient of a 5 million dollar contract, through a third party, to promote Putin’s Hungarian disciple in America. The Congressional investigators should also talk to Senator Sessions’ right hand man during the campaign, J.D. Gordon, who travelled six times to Budapest, and considers Putin’s Trojan Horse as one of the finest leaders within the Western alliance. Last, but not least, the FBI and the Congressional team should investigate Sebastian Gorka, Bannon’s „terrorism expert” and a man with a 15 year connection to anti-American, pro-Russian, pro-Iranian radicals in Hungary.


Okay now I know that got a little Gorked up, but that Connie Mack IV rang a bell so I opened up The Internets and discovered that I was thinking of Connie Mack III, (not Baseball HoF Connie Mack) and that Wikipedia includes this curio in C.M.IV's page:

Unlike many members of Congress, Mack has been a vigorous and outspoken defender of the whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks.

Huh. That's . . . odd. Now.
posted by petebest at 7:24 PM on November 3, 2017 [6 favorites]


Not telling the feds or judge you have a second passport until three days after being arrested will get you labeled a flight risk.

Rick Gates Failed to Disclose Second Passport, U.S. Tells Judge
posted by chris24 at 7:45 PM on November 3, 2017 [41 favorites]


The Most Self-Righteous Political Act of 2017 Just Took Place in the VA Governor’s Race
Oh, and this would make Virginia the 33rd state fully in GOP hands. You know how many states are needed to agree on a constitutional convention? Thirty-four. If you haven’t read much about Republicans’ ideas about what a constitutional convention would accomplish, you’d better.
posted by homunculus at 7:46 PM on November 3, 2017 [36 favorites]


From Part II of The Budapest Bridge article contains this interesting take on, y'know, things:
One of the first things the FBI should do, along with the Congressional intelligence Committees, is to examine J.D. Gordon’s Hungarian agenda book. Gordon was Jeff Sessions’ deputy during the campaign, and served as National Security Advisor to the Trump campaign. He travelled six times to Budapest, the European Headquarters of the Russian secret service. He should be questioned under oath and asked point blank: Who paid for his visits to Hungary, during the campaign? Why was it so important for him to spend so much time in this small, politically insignificant country, as a member of the Trump campaign team? Did he meet Finkelstein or Habony in Budapest, or Lánczi in London? Who were the oligarchs or officials he met in Hungary, and did he ever examine his contacts’ connections to the Russian secret services? Does he know anything about the corrupt passport business run by Orbán’s government? He should also be questioned under oath, why he would classify the Orbán regime as the Trump presidency’s “model” when Orbán, publicly declared, that his government’s “model” is Communist China, and Putin’s Russia, and Erdogan’s Turkey?
Now Ol' Racist Elf probably forgot about all that when questioned a few months later. But that part about the passports - where is it we were just talking about passports the other . . . yester . . day. Ugh. These Scaramuccis do drag on, don't they.
posted by petebest at 7:49 PM on November 3, 2017 [15 favorites]


I don't understand this "second" and "third passport" thing at all. Can I just go down to USPS and fill up my basket?
posted by pjenks at 7:55 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


I pretty much just use 'em as business cards now, yeah. $10 for 100 and they're all fully RFID chipped.
posted by petebest at 7:58 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


GCU Sweet and Full of Grace: "There are probably tens of thousands of elections this year alone"

Oh my, yes.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:26 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


Note also that Manafort had applied for TEN passports over the past decade.
posted by mcduff at 8:27 PM on November 3, 2017 [11 favorites]


If eleven days is one Scaramucci, does that make ten passports one Manaport?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:30 PM on November 3, 2017 [27 favorites]


ten passports and an ankle bracelet, heh
posted by ryanrs at 8:33 PM on November 3, 2017 [23 favorites]


Please to note, it doesn't explicitly say they were legal passports. Just, three passports.

Or, from chris24's link, one passport. Whoops, okay, two. And "limited assets" meaning $30 mizzillion. Also can I travel internationally now? Finally?! Pfft. Fine, PLEASE. /eyeroll

The justice system is, like, so annoying you guys
posted by petebest at 8:51 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


There is so much that's weird about the savings account. For example what do you put down date of birth? Or name? Started early enough you may not even have a sex. If you don't have a DOB and a sex and a name how do you apply for a SSN? There's nothing wrong for parents starting a college account as soon as they know a child is on the way, I just wonder about how you prove it for tax purposes? Pee stick? Ultrasound?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:55 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


tivalasvegas: "I could deal with it okay when Omnigate had like a Lord of the Rings-level cast of characters, but now it's Game of Thrones to the power of Wheel of Time and I have no idea who eighty percent of these people are"

This is how I felt when reading about Watergate ("wait, who is Alexander Butterfield again?"), but this does seem to take it to new heights.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:11 PM on November 3, 2017 [1 favorite]


you left out the part about "polite society," which Catholics were not considered entirely a part of

The US was hardly monolithic even in the 19th and early 20th centuries. So it depends on where you were and what you mean by "polite society", I suppose. (My Catholic ancestors emigrated to Maryland in the 1600's, mostly; their descendants include a signer of the Declaration of Independence and US Senator, a US Supreme Court Justice, and six US representatives, all of whom were probably "members of polite society").
posted by Pseudonymous Cognomen at 9:21 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


This Tax Bill Isn't Just Bad Economics. It's Got a Backdoor Anti-Abortion Measure, Too.

Well, that is one way to prevent pregnancies
posted by standardasparagus at 9:32 PM on November 3, 2017 [9 favorites]


ErisLordFreedom: "Zip codes are designed based on mail delivery."

Yeah, I used to do a lot of work with ZIPs when I was supporting IT for a logistics company. Contrary to popular belief, ZIP codes do NOT map directly to geography at all, they represent delivery info. Now, *most* of the time, the ZIP is contiguous, and you can pretty much plot them on a map, but they can cross state lines, they can skip areas, they can do lots of stuff. And since they are for delivery info, technically they don't exist if there is nowhere to deliver to in the area.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:32 PM on November 3, 2017 [5 favorites]


If eleven days is one Scaramucci, does that make ten passports one Manaport?

Fast ship? You've never heard of the Manafort Falcon?
It's the ship that made the Kessel run in less than twelve passports!
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:47 PM on November 3, 2017 [29 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS (attention Justinian)

** NJ gov -- Rasmussen poll has Murphy up 50-35. RCP average is Murphy +15.5.

** VA gov -- Four new polls today:
* Roanoke: Tied 47-47
* Suffolk: Northam 47-43
* Rasmussen: Tied 45-45
* Polling Company: Gillespie 46-43 [Please note this is Kellyanne Conway's shop]
RCP average is Northam +2.8.

Another tea leaf: Early voting numbers have been very high, particularly in DC suburbs and Richmond. Some of these are going to be cannibalization of Election Day votes, of course, but that still seems positive.

Basically, the race is tight, but still seems to favor Northam. If you are concerned at all about this race, PLEASE consider signing up for some phone banking: here's a link via Let America Vote, here's one from Mobilize America.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:13 PM on November 3, 2017 [33 favorites]


And here's the slack link if you're interested in texting for VA this weekend.
posted by greermahoney at 10:32 PM on November 3, 2017 [3 favorites]


ZIP = Zone Improvement Plan
posted by kirkaracha at 10:41 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Diving into that Slack, looks like it sends you to this Google form for texting signup.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:49 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


Another fairly comprehensive and nonpartisan voter guide is at VoteSmart.
posted by maurreen at 11:06 PM on November 3, 2017 [2 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Thank you to our GREAT Military/Veterans and @PacificCommand. Remember #PearlHarbor. Remember the @USSArizona! A day I’ll never forget.

Time Travel Trump strikes again.
posted by christopherious at 12:19 AM on November 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


He probably means the premiere of the movie Pearl Harbor.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:23 AM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


I've been watching Rep. Joe Kennedy III with an appraising glint of hope for the future in my eye. Today he talked about CHIP (Twitter link to short video of his comments).
posted by xyzzy at 12:43 AM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm betting he didn't know Hawaii wasn't a state when Pearl Harbor happened.
posted by Rykey at 2:20 AM on November 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


Basically, the race is tight, but still seems to favor Northam.

Quinnipiac are either gonna look like geniuses or have some serious methodological examination to do after the VA results come in. Their last 2 results have been what, Northam +14 and +17?
posted by Justinian at 2:28 AM on November 4, 2017


Also, I'd feel a lot better about a +2.8 polling average if that wasn't basically Clinton's lead going into the election. There's no Electoral College Bullshit to give the vote loser the election in a gubernatorial race, sure, but it's still giving me flashbacks. Can you have PTSD from an election?
posted by Justinian at 2:30 AM on November 4, 2017 [22 favorites]


Weirdly ‘the sleazy case of Muller.’...NYT article in my husbands Safari browser while not logged in displays with a Ukrainian advert for Samsung Galaxy ???

Now in Chrome it’s a Ukrainian supermarket ( well I can see a fillet of Salmon but I don’t speak Ukrainian)

Not for me, in my browser ? ...huh ?
posted by Wilder at 3:02 AM on November 4, 2017


Worth checking to see what locations http://www.whatsmyip.org/more-info-about-you/ you get on both machines.

It's the sort of thing you get if you're using a VPN or proxy routed via another country.

If the IP location shows up as being in Ukraine and it's not something he's knowingly set up then it may be worth running some virus/trojan scans (just not Kaspersky labs).
posted by Buntix at 3:12 AM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


If eleven days is one Scaramucci, does that make ten passports one Manaport?

Is this the new 12 days of Christmas song I've been hearing about?

♫ And Trump in a penitentiary. ♫
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 3:24 AM on November 4, 2017 [34 favorites]


Thread: GOP tax bill would tax tuition wavers for grad students. This would be a disaster for US STEM PhD education
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:39 AM on November 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


And from the lighter side of the 2017 post-sanity universe: that there daft Prison Planet item hawking "Brain Force Plus" on Infowars.
posted by Buntix at 3:50 AM on November 4, 2017


12 days of Christmas Muellermas

Five, pee-ee tapes
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:58 AM on November 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


A leftist on my FB feed posted this, and for the first time seemed like he believed Russia interfered. Interesting that it took someone other than Clinton getting hacked, but hey, whatever it takes.

Russia hackers pursued Putin foes, not just US Democrats
It wasn’t just Hillary Clinton’s emails they went after.

The hackers who disrupted the U.S. presidential election last year had ambitions that stretched across the globe, targeting the emails of Ukrainian officers, Russian opposition figures, U.S. defense contractors and thousands of others of interest to the Kremlin, according to a previously unpublished digital hit list obtained by The Associated Press.

The list provides the most detailed forensic evidence yet of the close alignment between the hackers and the Russian government, exposing an operation that went back years and tried to break into the inboxes of 4,700 Gmail users — from the pope’s representative in Kiev to the punk band Pussy Riot in Moscow. The targets were spread among 116 countries.

“It’s a wish list of who you’d want to target to further Russian interests,” said Keir Giles, director of the Conflict Studies Research Center in Cambridge, England, and one of five outside experts who reviewed the AP’s findings. He said the data was “a master list of individuals whom Russia would like to spy on, embarrass, discredit or silence.”

The AP findings draw on a database of 19,000 malicious links collected by cybersecurity firm Secureworks, dozens of rogue emails, and interviews with more than 100 hacking targets.
posted by chris24 at 5:56 AM on November 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


I'm kind of hoping there's more indictments before the trials actually start.
posted by Merus at 5:56 AM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Gosh who could have guessed?

’Russian trolls’ promoted California independence
posted by puffyn at 5:58 AM on November 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


Also, I'd feel a lot better about a +2.8 polling average if that wasn't basically Clinton's lead going into the election. There's no Electoral College Bullshit to give the vote loser the election in a gubernatorial race, sure, but it's still giving me flashbacks. Can you have PTSD from an election?

We are not in the Post yet. We are still in the trauma.
posted by srboisvert at 6:00 AM on November 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


@NARAL: WOW. WI Rep. Scott Allen thinks women should be forced to procreate for the sake of the labor market.

Women are PEOPLE, not incubators. 😡
Video link
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:04 AM on November 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


I didn't need to click that to know that Scott Allen would look like a C-list 60s Batman villain in a suit.
posted by delfin at 6:26 AM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm kind of hoping there's more indictments before the trials actually start.

Obvious "On-Deck" indictments. Don Jr. and Kushner met with the same Russians that Manfort met with, plus all the prior money laundering by .... Everyone.... and the 18 USC 1001/371(conspiracy) charges that pretty much ... everyone in the Trump Campaign is liable for....

Don't you worry, there's going to be a pause between now, and the Wed. before Thanksgiving, then another shoe drops -- "Indictments coming Monday after Thanksgiving..." so everyone involved freaks the fuck out for a holiday weekend/incurs "Holiday" billable hours with their lawyers, then Monday it's a toss up between any of: Sessions, Flynn. Jr. Flynn, Don Jr., Kushner... and heck, Ivanka's in there and on the longshot, they've documented Melinia's working on a tourist visa + subsequent green-card fraud. ...


Yeah, that's the best of all possible worlds, but despair is a sin!
posted by mikelieman at 6:43 AM on November 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


Via Frankie Boyle, Late Night Signs shows us how to sign Donald Trump
posted by Myeral at 6:47 AM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Can you have PTSD from an election?

Well, yes. actually.

This being 2017's General Internet, cautionary rules apply to such links: avoid the comments, don't step in the toxic man-waste, and remember to be nice to you with nature, nutrition, and marathon cake-red-bull-and-Super-Mario sessions (or the equivalent: local laws and conditions may apply).
posted by petebest at 6:55 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Good Morning Hope Fans! From the rabidly right-wing "USA Today",

Trump team collusion with Russia? Ukraine connection may hold key.

Several people who were in the platform committee meeting say Trump campaign aides were present and pushed hard for the pro-Russian change, memorable because it seemed to be the only item they were concerned with. They were on a mission.

Trump campaign official J.D. Gordon participated in the effort and said he was acting to keep the platform language in line with Donald Trump's views. A delegate in the room said Trump campaign staff were on their cell phones talking to the New York Trump campaign headquarters. . . .

Noteworthy, is that J.D. Gordon and Carter Page, another Trump aide, also met with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak at the Republican National Convention.

So just why has Gordon changed his story claiming he did not advocate modifying the language and that he did not act on behalf of Trump? Why did Trump deny he knew anything about the platform change? Who were Trump staff talking with on their cell phones? And why is this so very, very critical?

In what is increasingly looking like a desperate attempt to cover up yet another item of disturbing coziness by Trump Team with Russia, the sudden denials and reversals, rather than exculpatory, actually serve as a bright light with glowing arrows saying “This! This right here!”


Yes, it is a opinion piece, but this is your regularly-scheduled reminder that most people think Trump's one colluding motherfucker. Stand On The Gas, y'all!
posted by petebest at 7:11 AM on November 4, 2017 [25 favorites]


Jed Shugerman wrote the following blog post that Slate picked up.

(Shugerblog) Mueller charges are “enigmatic” and “mystifying”? No, he is strategizing around Trump’s pardons.
Some have wondered: “Why is Mueller bringing so few charges against Papadopoulos and especially Manafort?”
(Slate) Robert Mueller’s Brilliant Strategy for Outmaneuvering Trump Pardons
New York’s Criminal Procedure Law 40.20 states, “A person may not be twice prosecuted for the same offense.”
This has broad interpretation that includes not allowing state and federal prosecution for the same offense.
Mueller wisely brought one set of charges (mostly financial crimes that preceded the campaign), and he is saving other charges that New York could also bring (tax fraud, soliciting stolen goods, soliciting/conspiring to hack computers).
...
If Trump fires Mueller, state prosecutors can carry on with his investigation and prosecutions based on parallel state laws.

This same strategy adds an explanation for the single Papadopoulos charge. I explained above that a single charge is a classic part of plea deal for cooperation. But Mueller can be saving a number of other charges, both in his own back pocket to incentivize cooperation and also for the front pockets of state-level prosecutors in case Trump gives Papadopoulos a blanket pardon. Mueller is a stone-cold professional.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:15 AM on November 4, 2017 [77 favorites]


The hackers who disrupted the U.S. presidential election last year had ambitions that stretched across the globe, targeting the emails of Ukrainian officers, Russian opposition figures, U.S. defense contractors and thousands of others of interest to the Kremlin, according to a previously unpublished digital hit list obtained by The Associated Press.

We had a sudden and sustained spike in mass phishing attempts against everyone with Iowa State University email addresses last year (I work for them in a roundabout way so I have one too), pre and post Russian hackers being outed as doing the DNC and other attacks, and I always kind of assumed it was Russia and they were casting a super wide net against US organizations because phishing is so cheap and low risk/high reward you might as well go nuts and do it everywhere. I mean probably you get a few students and low level employees clicking on the link and it doesn't go any farther than IT noticing and dealing with the problem (it all seemed like lazy but persistent phishing and not anything targeted so IT blocking domains and dealing with infected computers seemed to take care of it), but on the off chance it works well hey, maybe you get into the system of someone at Ames Lab, that could be a huge get. Even at the time I figured it wasn't outlandish to think that was Russia too, if they do that stuff anywhere why not do it everywhere?
posted by jason_steakums at 7:30 AM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Robert Mueller’s Brilliant Strategy for Outmaneuvering Trump Pardons

I'd be shocked if they hadn't already war-gamed a half dozen different ways Trump could try to shut down the investigation.

The Trumpistas are the kids who don't do their homework and try to bullshit and cheat their way to the finish line.* They're lazy AND stupid (AND corrupt).

Mueller & Co. are the kids that have a typed up outline in 5 different colors of highlighters and never break a sweat. It's not even close to a fair fight.

*mixed metaphor, sorry
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 AM on November 4, 2017 [59 favorites]


This has broad interpretation that includes not allowing state and federal prosecution for the same offense.

The Supreme Court has long recognized dual sovereignty as an exception to double jeopardy.
posted by Talez at 7:46 AM on November 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'm betting he didn't know Hawaii wasn't a state when Pearl Harbor happened.
posted by Rykey at 5:20 AM on November 4 [3 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Safe bet. He's barely aware Wyoming is a state now.
posted by Cookiebastard at 7:46 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


So they're winding him up at Pearl Harbor and sending him to Japan, eh? What could possibly go wrong.
posted by petebest at 7:56 AM on November 4, 2017 [27 favorites]




Well, it will probably be The Fifteen Days of Mullermas.

I enjoyed Muellerween and I look forward to Muellergiving, Muellermas, and Mueller New Year.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:01 AM on November 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


The world was a complex place, long before this treasonous and corrupt administration.

The Saudis have been playing Trump for the idiot that he is (glowing-orb.gif). They have also recently had a quiet coup, with MbS the deputy crown prince ready to take over from King Salman. But the Iranians have been gaining considerable influence, not least through their activities in Syria. They are now close to having a contiguous route from Iran to the Mediterranean.

Against this, we now find that Said Hariri, the Prime Minister of Lebanon, whose father was assassinated, has surprised everyone by resigning while in Rydah. He cites fear of assassination as his reason. Together with the anti-Iran rhetoric from the WH and their contempt for the Iran deal, may suggest that Washington and Rydah are building up to an offensive against Iran. I sure hope not. The leaves are somewhat hard to read.
posted by stonepharisee at 8:02 AM on November 4, 2017 [16 favorites]



Well, it will probably be The Fifteen Days of Mullermas.

I enjoyed Muellerween and I look forward to Muellergiving, Muellermas, and Mueller New Year.


And Mueller Presidents Day!
posted by jgirl at 8:04 AM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


If you'll accept foreign holidays, I hereby give you Sint Mueller on November 11th.
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:13 AM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Muellermas

Muellermas is so commerical. I choose to celebrate Arrestivus.
posted by Talez at 8:15 AM on November 4, 2017 [80 favorites]


The Supreme Court has long recognized dual sovereignty as an exception to double jeopardy.

States typically have their own double jeopardy protections (like NY's CPL 40.20), which often go further than the federal rule. However, it looks like New York has decisively rejected the idea that New York's protections go as far as Slate thinks.

(However, that case, Matter of Polito v. Walsh, does open up one way in which the Slate theory could kind of make sense -- if the relevant NY crimes are somehow predicated on a violation of federal law, then they might really be the "same offense" and subject to double jeopardy protections. I don't know the NY statutes, so maybe there's something there?)
posted by shenderson at 8:22 AM on November 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Arrestivus

The Airing of the Grievances might need to be expanded to a few days.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:46 AM on November 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


I've been watching Rep. Joe Kennedy III with an appraising glint of hope for the future in my eye.

I don't think we should be running another member of a political dynasty for President, ever. Also, as a New Englander, I've seen a pattern of these legacy politicians having a very limited shelf life before they self destruct by prescription drug addiction (Patrick Kennedy), repeatedly losing their car (Clay Pell), or deciding to run for President when he doesn't even have any political relevance in his own state (Lincoln Chafee).
posted by Ruki at 8:50 AM on November 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Airing of the Grievances might need to be expanded to a few days.

The feats of political strength from complicit Republican congressmen is sure to be incredulous.
posted by Talez at 8:50 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Airing of the Grievances might need to be expanded to a few days.

Yeah, but the Feats of Strength are much more entertaining now.
posted by loquacious at 8:51 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


WOW. WI Rep. Scott Allen thinks women should be forced to procreate for the sake of the labor market.

Surely he means the purchasers of labor should negotiate individually with women in order to procure their services in a free market.
posted by srboisvert at 8:52 AM on November 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


This is my surprised face.

NYT: Commercial Real Estate, Which Fueled Trump’s Fortune, Fares Well in Tax Plan
An industry familiar to President Trump appears to have emerged from the Republican tax rewrite relatively unscathed: commercial real estate.

For months, commercial real estate developers had been concerned that the tax plan in the works would make it more difficult or expensive for them to take out huge bank loans or would damage demand in the property market. But if the plan unveiled this week by House Republicans comes to pass, developers like Mr. Trump, who made much of his fortune building skyscrapers, hotels and resorts, will have little to worry about.

“The industry was left whole,” said Thomas J. Bisacquino, president of NAIOP, a commercial real estate development trade group. “The provisions we feel are working will still work.”

Developers were fearful that the special tax treatment of “carried interest” — fees that are taxed as capital gains, not income — would be amended, or that they would no longer be able to deduct interest expenses from their taxable profits. They were also concerned that certain exchanges of commercial property, which currently enjoy a tax deferral, would face immediate taxation. But the bill included no such changes to the industry, and developers are thankful.
posted by chris24 at 8:54 AM on November 4, 2017 [21 favorites]


The Supreme Court has long recognized dual sovereignty as an exception to double jeopardy.

There's also the question of timing and attachment of jeopardy -- if Trump issues a preemptive pardon before a jury is sworn in or a trial begins, then Manafort (or whomever) may not have been "in jeopardy." For Papadopoulos, his guilty plea likely means jeopardy attaches (I think it's when the court accepts the plea?), so then you'd get into dual sovereignty issues.

Dual jeopardy also only applies for criminal offenses and so I don't think it would impact things like civil asset forfeiture or claims against corporate entities.
posted by melissasaurus at 8:58 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


They can't help saying "Don't look over here!"

Mueller braces for challenges to his authority
The president’s personal attorney, Jay Sekulow, told POLITICO on Thursday he is primed to lodge formal objections with either Mueller or Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein if the Russia investigation took a wide or unexpected detour into issues like an old Trump real-estate deal.

“We’d view that as outside the scope of legitimate inquiry,” Sekulow said. “We’d raise it.”
posted by chris24 at 9:07 AM on November 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


“We’d view that as outside the scope of legitimate inquiry,” Sekulow said. “We’d raise it.”

Mueller: I call.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:14 AM on November 4, 2017 [65 favorites]


Oh you're precious, Jay Sekulow.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:14 AM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Mueller braces for challenges to his authority

I doubt he so much as shifts his footing. Sekulow is just terrible at this.

I mean, even Trump's attorney picks are just ...not good. This isn't a problem where you go to the B team. ...and there is no shortage of capable attorneys at big law firms (particularly in D.C.) but they generally like clients that listen, and who pay on time.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:15 AM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


That Republicans pretend not to remember Ken Starr and Whitewater is especially funny.
posted by chris24 at 9:16 AM on November 4, 2017 [46 favorites]


They were also concerned that certain exchanges of commercial property, which currently enjoy a tax deferral, would face immediate taxation. But the bill included no such changes to the industry, and developers are thankful.

The bill does, however, eliminate tax-deferred like-kind exchanges of personal (non-real) property though. Which will impact, for example, car/equipment leasing businesses and car rental companies. (It also impacts private airplane leasing and art collectors, but I'll let the wealthy advocate for themselves.)

I'm not particularly tied to the existence of like-kind exchanges, but it is conspicuous that the only industry that they preserve tax deferment for is real estate. Also, combined with estate tax repeal (but retention of step-up in basis), this means that real estate investing dynasties would never pay tax on the appreciation of their assets ever for the rest of time; while continuing to use those assets to generate income or as collateral for loans.

Note that most states follow federal treatment of like-kind exchanges, so this will result in both federal and state imposition of tax in many cases.

E&Y did an extensive report in 2015 on (full, not partial) 1031 repeal including macroeconomic simulations, available here.
posted by melissasaurus at 9:17 AM on November 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


There are financial institutions that offer ethical investments. They won't put your money in tobacco, or arms manufacturers, or casinos, or anything else you would rather not support. I can't speak to the efficacy or the good will behind these offers. I do support the concept of ethical investment though.
45twit: Would very much appreciate Saudi Arabia doing their IPO of Aramco with the New York Stock Exchange. Important to the United States!
I won't invest in gender apartheid. I will seek out how not to invest in gender apartheid. I hope everyone will turn their backs and let this IPO, wherever it is listed, sink like a stone.
posted by adept256 at 9:17 AM on November 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


So I guess Trump's limited picky 5 year old palate gets extended to the press corps on AF1.

I really wish there was a an aggregator somewhere that just posts menus and food of what people are offered to eat when he's around.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:24 AM on November 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Aw, that makes me sad that HRC didn't win. We were supposed to have taco trucks on every corner!
posted by VTX at 9:33 AM on November 4, 2017 [31 favorites]


I always kind of assumed it was Russia and they were casting a super wide net against US organizations because phishing is so cheap and low risk/high reward you might as well go nuts and do it everywhere.

Universities have been targets of domestic right wing phishers seeking to discredit climate research specifically and all science generally. So it might be Russians, or science-deniers or some collusive combination thereof.
posted by srboisvert at 9:44 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


That Republicans pretend not to remember Ken Starr and Whitewater is especially funny.

Far be it from me to make excuses for any of their noise — the current crew all remind me of the Keystone Kops starring in "High Treason!" — but it may well be the case that there's precious little continuity of experience between the Clinton-era GOP and the Tea Party-inflected rump of abject morons we call the contemporary Republican caucus.

To a one, they don't seem like the type inclined to have paid much attention to national politics, except possibly in the broadest strokes of Fox-orchestrated dismay, prior to their own ascension to power. I'm not surprised that institutional memory suffers, even for reasons other than expedience.
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:46 AM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


The president’s personal attorney, Jay Sekulow, told POLITICO on Thursday he is primed to lodge formal objections with either Mueller or Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein if the Russia investigation took a wide or unexpected detour into issues like an old Trump real-estate deal.

Why, that sounds very much like a triple-dog-dare, Scut Farkus.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:47 AM on November 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


So I guess Trump's limited picky 5 year old palate gets extended to the press corps on AF1.

That looks more like the vomitus of a diseased bivalve than it does a taco bowl. WTF is wrong with these people?
posted by adamgreenfield at 9:48 AM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


In other words, airline food.
posted by peeedro at 9:51 AM on November 4, 2017


The guy who says nobody can investigate his business dealings just made a stop at the Trump Waikiki hotel during his government travel.
posted by zachlipton at 9:52 AM on November 4, 2017 [22 favorites]


Former President George H.W. Bush has a blunt assessment of Donald Trump: "He's a blowhard." And his son, former President George W. Bush, has harsh words for his Republican successor as well: "This guy doesn't know what it means to be president."

@ryanobles: NEW: WH responds to Bush41 calling POTUS a "blowhard". Calls Iraq "greatest foreign policy mistakes in American history". via/ @NoahGrayCNN

Did the White House seriously just attack George H.W. Bush over the Iraq war? Were there shrooms in that taco bowl?

(Yes, I know Bush 41 had his own Iraq War. That one had its serious problems, but if you pull the "greatest foreign policy mistake in American history" card, you're obviously talking about Bush 43.)
posted by zachlipton at 9:57 AM on November 4, 2017 [40 favorites]


♫ It's beginning to look a lot like Fitzmas. ♫
posted by kirkaracha at 10:04 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


So I guess Trump's limited picky 5 year old palate gets extended to the press corps on AF1.

Wow, that cake looks dire, and I say that as a person who willingly eats Butterscotch Krimpets.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:07 AM on November 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


Mod note: Couple deleted; no we don't need to decide what is in fact the worst American foreign policy mistake, which Iraq War was worse, etc. Again, if you're bored, go read something else rather than stirring up things to fight about in here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:07 AM on November 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


but it may well be the case that there's precious little continuity of experience between the Clinton-era GOP and the Tea Party-inflected rump of abject morons we call the contemporary Republican caucus.

I agree that there's lots of ignorance and idiocy in the GOP today, but Kellyanne Conway's husband George was Paula Jones' attorney. He worked with Coulter and Drudge back then. He used to date Ingraham. These people all know Whitewater, as does Gingrich, a big advisor to Trump.

The nutjob and Tea Party right all perpetually bring up Vince Foster, Clinton Body Count, etc. Yes they're ignorant idiots, but this is more likely convenient amnesia and hypocrisy.
posted by chris24 at 10:14 AM on November 4, 2017 [27 favorites]


I saw somebody mention Hillary killing JFK, Jr. the other day; been a while since I heard that golden oldie.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:17 AM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


♫ It's beginning to look a lot like Fitzmas. ♫

Fitzmas was a wet fart. I want more than that!
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:17 AM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


I agree that there's lots of ignorance and idiocy in the GOP today, but Kellyanne Conway's husband George was Paula Jones' attorney. He worked with Coulter and Drudge back then. He used to date Ingraham. These people all know Whitewater, as does Gingrich, a big advisor to Trump.

Point taken.
posted by adamgreenfield at 10:24 AM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]




The "Hawaii: 3 / Trump: 0" and "I'm not orange; Impeach" ones are excellent too!
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:54 AM on November 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


Professor Joe 'The Professor' Mifsud attemded a meeting near London last month along with Boris Johnson, with the intention to talk about Brexit. Article's a bit fuzzy, but does have lots of useful background on links between the pro-Brexit campaign, Russia, the US campaign and associated horrors.
posted by Devonian at 11:23 AM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


@ryanobles: NEW: WH responds to Bush41 calling POTUS a "blowhard". Calls Iraq "greatest foreign policy mistakes in American history". via/ @NoahGrayCNN

Did the White House seriously just attack George H.W. Bush over the Iraq war?


I wish I could believe that with this argument Donald is backing himself into rhetorical corner where he cannot start a war.

But that would require memory and logical consistency.
posted by srboisvert at 11:28 AM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]




there is a dismaying amount of Red #40 in that meal
posted by halation at 11:59 AM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Only spiritually, I think he'd be like really tough jerky if you dug him up now.
posted by Artw at 12:02 PM on November 4, 2017


Mod note: One deleted - Donna Brazile thread is over here for anyone who wants to talk about that stuff.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:20 PM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


there is a dismaying amount of Red #40 in that meal

Knowing how Donald Trump operates, he probably demanded that it be Red #2 dye instead.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:27 PM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


I really wanted my then-four-year-old daughter to see a woman elected president and it was crushing to see us get President Pussygrabber instead.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:42 PM on November 4, 2017 [44 favorites]


Election night with kids was tough. It's one thing to know the world just took an enormous turn for the worse, being there with loved ones who will be affected worst of all was crushing.
posted by Artw at 12:45 PM on November 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


I know quite a few women in their sixties and seventies who were so excited to finally have a woman president and are now afraid that they'll never live to see one.
posted by octothorpe at 12:53 PM on November 4, 2017 [44 favorites]


My grandmother, a staunch feminist and liberal, died a couple weeks after inauguration day, the day before her 100th birthday. She is literally older than my right to vote, and she died furious that she never got to see a woman president.
posted by skycrashesdown at 1:03 PM on November 4, 2017 [95 favorites]


I don't think the antifa super serum worked, guys. #kranglied

(Fox News is still trying to get conservatives to spill (more) blood on the street, though, by reporting that this totally-real organized group called antifa is trying to overthrow the president)
posted by Yowser at 1:09 PM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


OH NO IT'S THE ANTIFA

seriously this is going to be the thing that they point to (it does admittedly sound weird at first blush; 'no other details were immediately available')
posted by halation at 1:23 PM on November 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Protesters in Hawaii mocked Donald Trump with signs that said "welcome to Kenya"

From the article: 'demonstrators also held signs that read "Aloha means goodbye" ', which is pretty good.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 1:28 PM on November 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


Re: antifa uprising, that’s it, that’s the whole thing
posted by The Whelk at 1:28 PM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


It's going to be like with those doomsday yahoos who think the reason the world didn't end was due to their prayers. That the antifa uprising didn't happen will be proof to the lunatic right that they prevented it with their courage and Reddit posts.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:43 PM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]




here come antifas
here come antifas
right down antifas lane
they've got some sticks and some dirty tricks for socialism's reign
hear their black bloc boots come stomping, oh what a terrible fright
jump in bed, cover up your head, cause the antifas come tonight

posted by halation at 1:50 PM on November 4, 2017 [30 favorites]


OH NO IT'S THE ANTIFA

It's the Bowling Green Massacre, guys! Kellyanne is a precog!
posted by XMLicious at 1:57 PM on November 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


And it seems to me you lived your life
Like a Milo in the wind

The Hill: Daily Caller drops Milo Yiannopoulos after first column
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:04 PM on November 4, 2017 [31 favorites]


“You there boy, what day is it today?”
“Why sir, it’s Antifa day!” *urchin fires a rocket launcher into Scooge’s window*
posted by The Whelk at 2:09 PM on November 4, 2017 [41 favorites]


It was a weak sauce massacre, it was the Bowling Green bad day, more likely.
posted by Oyéah at 2:11 PM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


It seems like I put on my murderin' pants for nothing today. There's always next Antifa Civil War I guess.
posted by Justinian at 2:16 PM on November 4, 2017 [16 favorites]


Trump to golf Tokyo 2020 Olympics course with Abe, world No. 4 Matsuyama

“I wasn’t sure if I’d be good enough. But I hope to have fun so that it will be engraved in my memory,” Matsuyama, who is 4th in the PGA world rankings, said Friday at a tournament in Shanghai, according to the Japan Times. “I’ll do my best not to lose [to Trump].”

I know you can't, but for what it's worth, we'd love it if you'd kick his ass.
posted by petebest at 2:18 PM on November 4, 2017 [29 favorites]


"Where will it end? So: no new MILO column for now"

i mean, you know you can roll your own website in TYOOL 2017, buddy, right? WordPress, Blogger, Wix, Weebly, knock yourself out. or hell, since apparently you still have a facebook page, put it on there.

This sort of cowardice is why the Right in America loses and will keep losing the culture wars

from your unthinkable mouth to $DEITY's ears
posted by halation at 2:24 PM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


Incredibly, the Daily Caller, poster of such videos as "running over protesters with cars is funny," found this so objectionable that they also fired the person that hired Milo.

(I think someone's jimmy's are rustled and all the usual suspects are pretending not to be openly fascist, at least for a few weeks)
posted by Yowser at 2:27 PM on November 4, 2017 [10 favorites]


The Mercers stopped getting invited to galas or something.
posted by Artw at 2:29 PM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


I was listening to the latest episode of Vox's The Weeds this afternoon and they brought up a point about the tax bill that I'm not seeing reported anywhere, another slap in the face to American families. In order to file for a child tax credit the bill specifies you have to have a valid SSN. They estimated that there are about 3 million children who are American citizens by birthright who have undocumented parents. They will not qualify for this tax credit.

The rest of the episode gets very wonky indeed and they lost me a few times but they bring up a good point-- a major reason to vote for a Republican representative in a Blue State is to make sure your taxes do not go up. If the SALT deductions are gone and people end up with higher taxes, those Representatives are going to have a hard time keeping their seats.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:33 PM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


“I wasn’t sure if I’d be good enough. But I hope to have fun so that it will be engraved in my memory,” Matsuyama, who is 4th in the PGA world rankings, said Friday at a tournament in Shanghai, according to the Japan Times. “I’ll do my best not to lose [to Trump].”

I just....By all accounts Trump isn't bad for a 71 yo he just isn't as good as he thinks or is often reported because he cheats and takes a lot of mulligans. So if he is going to play publicly with one of the world's greatest players on a tough course he has never played before I don't see how this is going to go well at all. Matsuyama is going to have to have a "bad day."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:38 PM on November 4, 2017 [10 favorites]




Here's an update on the Rand Paul story. The important new detail is "KSP says Boucher was an acquaintance. " So probably not a politically motivated act. Also Senator Paul did not have to go to the hospital so it sounds pretty minor.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:00 PM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


Here's an update on the Rand Paul story.

Geez. Everyone's a libertarian until they need to call 911.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:12 PM on November 4, 2017 [109 favorites]


So if he is going to play publicly with one of the world's greatest players on a tough course he has never played before I don't see how this is going to go well at all. Matsuyama is going to have to have a "bad day."

He's hanging out with Trump.
posted by Celsius1414 at 3:15 PM on November 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


Folks, there is some heavy shit going down in Saudi: Ballistic missiles targeting Riyadh and a bunch of princes arrested, including Alawad bin Taleel (one of the richest men in the world), in an "anti-corruption" drive.

Kushner just visited 5 days ago, so there's a chance this could be another tick on his Screw Up Scorecard.
posted by PenDevil at 3:17 PM on November 4, 2017 [35 favorites]


Center on Budget and Policy Priorities: House GOP’s Child Tax Credit Expansion Excludes Millions of Children in Lower-Income Working Families
The House GOP bill would increase the maximum credit from $1,000 per child to $1,600 — but only for some households. It also would sharply increase the upper income limits of eligibility, so the credit wouldn’t begin to phase out for married filers until their income reached $230,000, and wouldn’t phase out completely until income reached $294,000 for a married couple with two children.

At the lower end of the income scale, the bill would deny most or all of the CTC expansion to millions of children whose parents work for low wages. More than 10 million children in low-income working families would be excluded entirely. A family with two children that makes less than $16,333 would get no help from the House GOP CTC proposal.
This bill is so damn mean.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:19 PM on November 4, 2017 [39 favorites]


WaPo Police arrest neighbor after Rand Paul is assaulted at Kentucky home

Sorry to dribble out the details on a not-very-important story but a US Senator getting assaulted is big news. Turns out the 59 yo Boucher lives in R. Paul's gated community.
Boucher is an anesthesiologist who has been recovering from injuries related to a recent bike accident, according to one of the people close to Paul. He is the inventor of the Therm-a-Vest, a cloth vest partially filled with rice and secured with Velcro straps that is designed help with back pain
Who knows? Maybe it's a beef about Paul blowing leaves onto Boucher's driveway. It's that time of year and you would be surprised at how many people do that. Also sounds like to me (just my uninformed opinion) that if it was a minor injury that didn't require going to the hospital for stitches or x-rays there was really no need to call the police.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:42 PM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


PenDevil: a bunch of princes arrested, including Alawad bin Taleel (one of the richest men in the world)

Al-Waleed bin Talal is also Citigroup's largest individual shareholder, the second-largest voting shareholder in 21st Century Fox.
posted by bluecore at 3:46 PM on November 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


I wonder if Saudi princes get to turn themselves in without handcuffs and then go home to house arrest with ankle bracelets.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:47 PM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Who knows? Maybe it's a beef about Paul blowing leaves onto Boucher's driveway.

How long could anyone be neighbors with Rand Paul without being sorely tempted to deck him, really?
posted by jason_steakums at 3:48 PM on November 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


59 year old anesthesiologist sounds a bit unlikely as anti-fa supersoldier TBH.
posted by Artw at 3:48 PM on November 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


Trying to curtail my rampant editing abuse: It's not so much that I have a problem with turning oneself in and house arrest as I have a huge problem with the double standards of who gets that and who gets stuck in jail.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:49 PM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


I know quite a few women in their sixties and seventies who were so excited to finally have a woman president and are now afraid that they'll never live to see one.

Dude, I'm nearly forty and I don't think I will ever live to see one. I'm not sure anyone alive now will ever see one, including infants.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:53 PM on November 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


Hoping uncertainly for democratically elected president RN.
posted by Artw at 3:55 PM on November 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


Also sounds like to me (just my uninformed opinion) that if it was a minor injury that didn't require going to the hospital for stitches or x-rays there was really no need to call the police.

My uninformed opinion: if someone attacks you, you should call the police.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:55 PM on November 4, 2017 [18 favorites]


Will America Ever Have a Woman President? A year ago, it seemed like a safe bet. Today, it feels further away than ever. 20 women consider what it would take to get there.

Getting Michael Oreskes out of NPR and Mark Halperin out of NBC seems like a step in the right direction. If we can purge all the other misogynist assholes from the rest of the so-called liberal media, a woman might have a shot.
posted by hydropsyche at 4:01 PM on November 4, 2017 [29 favorites]


> My uninformed opinion: if someone attacks you, you should call the police.

Please consider that the set of all people for whom this is good advice is significantly smaller than the set of all people. "something happen? call the cops!" is not a universalizable maxim.

This is sort of a tangent but sort of not: broadly speaking, the situations in which calling the cops is a good idea are the situations in which introducing armed racists empowered by the state to use force is a good idea. There are actually cases where this is true. For example, if you're someone who has evidence that one of your neighbors or family members has molested a child, it can often improve the situation to introduce armed racists empowered by the state to use force. It may be better to contact or assemble a vigilante group, but that's often not possible, and despite their faults police tend to be alright about dealing with known child molesters — at least, when the known child molesters are not themselves police.

Likewise, if you're a racist White Republican member of congress who wants to make political hay out of a minor assault, it makes sense for you to introduce armed racists empowered by the state to use force.

But in general, for most situations, it's a terrible idea to default to introduce armed racists empowered by the state to use force.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:03 PM on November 4, 2017 [71 favorites]


Minor personal memory derail. Things I did nine years ago today included:

- wandering out of my hotel to see people queuing, block upon block, to vote
- doing a presentation about Nintendo and video game use in libraries to a roomful of librarians at an American Library Association conference
- hurling scrunched-up dollar bills at librarians who correctly answered questions shouted out by my co-presenter
- getting a taxi with three others (we called ourselves The Four Librarians of the Apocalypse) to downtown Chicago to watch the results come in...
- ...with Oprah and rather a lot of other people
- being temporary deafened when it was projected that Obama had won and several hundred thousand people in the same field went a little crazy
- watching Obama helicopter in and deliver his first speech as President-elect
- quickly get a taxi back as, hey, librarians equals organized
posted by Wordshore at 4:10 PM on November 4, 2017 [46 favorites]


here come antifas
here come antifas
right down antifas lane


And so, the War on Christmas opened its new front on St. Nicholas--
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:16 PM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


i've been at the gym. how's the antifa revolution? i can make snacks for later, but i gotta be home by ten.
posted by j_curiouser at 4:19 PM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


> i've been at the gym. how's the antifa revolution? i can make snacks for later, but i gotta be home by ten.

I'm almost done with my math homework — I'll go check on how the revolution is going after I get done with this next problem.1

> Dude, I'm nearly forty and I don't think I will ever live to see one. I'm not sure anyone alive now will ever see one, including infants.

If it were possible for cranky internet marxists to be optimists, I'd be optimistic about the possibility for the takedown of the trump organization in 2018-2019, followed by the election of President Warren in 2020.

1: p.s. does anyone have time to answer some quick questions about how the Kleene star works?
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 4:21 PM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Dude's trying to flee so bad.He's prob trying to figure out how to ship himself DHL to some non-extradition country.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:39 PM on November 4, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yes, facebook also popped up a depressing memory from nine years ago for me. Text "[tivalasvegas] is proud to be an American".

I reposted with a sad face emoticon.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:39 PM on November 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


So, the Saudi thing is freaking huge, and is going to have waves of repercussions throughout the western money world. According to Al Mayadeen, the Saudi official news source,
prominent billionaire, member of the royal Saudi family, and one of the biggest shareholders of Citi, News Corp. and Twitter Al-Waleed bin Talal, along with ten senior princes, and some 38 ministers, has been arrested for corruption and money laundering charges on orders from the new anti-corruption committee headed by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, while Royal princes’ private planes have been grounded.

Among those fired and/or arrested are the head of National Royal Guards, Miteb Bin Abdullah, the Minister of Economy and Planning, Adel Fakeih, and Admiral Abdullah bin Sultan bin Mohammed Al-Sultan, the Commander of the Saudi Naval Forces.

the purge by the Saudi King means that King Abdallah’s last remnants (Riyad firmer gov. & head of Nat. Guard); media moguls; SAGIA & financial policy officials have been purged.

Changing the head of the National Guard, an institution that’s been controlled by the clan of the late King Abdullah, “is not like changing the minister of oil,” said Kamran Bokhari, a senior analyst with Geopolitical Futures and a senior fellow with the Center for Global Policy. “I wouldn’t be surprised if this leads to greater fissures within the royal family.”

Arabiya adds that King Salman also issued sacking and replacement orders for Admiral Abdullah bin Sultan bin Mohammed Al-Sultan, the Commander of the Naval Forces, is to be terminated and be retired; his replacement is Vice Admiral Fahd bin Abdullah Al-Ghifaili, to be promoted to the rank of admiral and be appointed as Commander of the Naval Forces.

Additionally, Minister of Economy and Planning Adel al-Faqieh was replaced by Mohammed al-Tuwaijri, SPA said, quoting a royal decree. Commander of the Saudi Navy, Abdullah al-Sultan, was replaced with Fahad al-Ghafli. The king also replaced Minister of Economy and Planning Adel Fakeih withMohammad Al Tuwaijri, his deputy.

The heads of the main three Saudi owned TV networks were arrested, Alwalid Bin Talal (Rotana), Walid Al Brahim (MBC), Saleh Kamel (ART).

According to the AngryArab blog, the removal of Prince Miteb bin Abdullah as head of the National Guard, means that "this is the first time that the National Guard is not in the hand of Abdullah or his son."

That put all apparatus of the military-intelligence network in the hands of Muhammad bin Salman. News that Al-Walid bin Talal has been arrested and accused of money laundering. This could be a service to Trump, who hates Al-Walid: the two fought it out on twitter during the campaign although Al-Walid tried to reconcile with Trump after his election but to no avail.

All private jets are grounded, with no exit visas being granted to any Saudi right now. This is a total purge of all remaining allies of former King Abdallah and coincidentally, many vocal anti Trumpists.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:47 PM on November 4, 2017 [67 favorites]


If he flees that becomes the new normal amongst republicans, right? That's how it seems to work these days.
posted by Artw at 4:47 PM on November 4, 2017 [4 favorites]


Isn't the new Crown Prince something of a reformer, though?
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:55 PM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


If it results in a wave of republicans spontaneously dropping everything and fleeing the country never to return, I'm for it.
posted by ctmf at 4:57 PM on November 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm kind of wondering whether Al-Waleed bin Talal will start dumping more of his billions back into terror organizations as a covert way to strike at Trump.
posted by Talez at 4:59 PM on November 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's a Saudi news thread...

I don't think much more applies here except the certainty that Trump replied to the news with "now THAT's how to run a country".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:01 PM on November 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


There's a Saudi news thread...

It's something about a missile, maybe one on the coup should be started? TBH given the coup I'm wondering if the missile reports are real or part of the weirdness.
posted by Artw at 5:12 PM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, with all things Saudi, it's more complicated than it might appear.

King Salman bin Abdulaziz became king fairly recently, whereupon he named his nephew as the Crown Prince; Mohammed bin Nayef, who is more reform minded than previous rulers. However, the true modernist is the kings favourite son, Mohammed bin Salman, the youthful deputy crown prince.

Some believe that Nayef will actually not take the crown, that King Salman will abdicate in favor of his son instead. There is precedent for that, but it could cause major instability in the royal family, which number somewhere around 40,000 people. King Salman, now 80, will be the last of the sons of King Abdulaziz Ibn Saud, the founder of the country that bears his family’s name. Bin Salman is only 30, much closer to the median age of most Saudis, is much loved by the people, and if this purge is seen to be coming from him, then the people are likely to support it, even if the royals do not.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:12 PM on November 4, 2017 [7 favorites]


So as not to abuse edit, I was responding to a question, but if the comments need to be moved, I can do it when I get to a real computer, but it would be really difficult to cut and paste that much on a mobile, and I'm not sure I could write it all again as succinctly from scratch.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:16 PM on November 4, 2017


I remain stymied by everything he does. It's like he gets all of his information from 1950s movies. His lack of curiosity and awareness of the world is so embarrassing.
posted by elsietheeel at 5:18 PM on November 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


Typhoon just hit Vietnam. Something colossally stupid about disaster recovery is going to come out of his mouth.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:22 PM on November 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Maybe he can throw some paper towels to the victims.
posted by Justinian at 5:24 PM on November 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


loony left internal update , Chicago DSA is building resources for men on how to ID, address, acknowledge and correct shitty behavior within chapters and while organizing
posted by The Whelk at 5:55 PM on November 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


But the white men will either have their tax cuts, or their Medicare for all.

The proposed Medicare for All bill does repeal the Hyde Amendment and mandate comprehensive reproductive care. Of course that doesn't address all the sneaky shit states are pulling and the thing might as well be a progressive wish list at this point but it feels slightly premature to accuse proponents of selling out on abortion.
posted by atoxyl at 6:11 PM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm wondering if the missile reports are real

Unverifiable twitter link, but video of anti-missile missiles being launched ... somewhere.. presumably in Riyadh, maybe even today. *shrug*
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:37 PM on November 4, 2017


...and he'll be doing his impersonation of Alec Baldwin.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:52 PM on November 4, 2017 [2 favorites]


I can’t help but wonder what Judge Maryanne Trump Barry, a Clinton appointee to the U.S. Court of Apprals for the Third Circuit (presently inactive), makes of her brother’s efforts to direct the DOJ to pursue his enemies and repeated attempts to influence legal outcomes... not to mention his personal attacks on various judges and justices.
posted by carmicha at 7:07 PM on November 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


So he's giving a speech right now at an air base and it's now veering into a campaign rally or something.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:16 PM on November 4, 2017


It's worth remembering that one function of the TPP was as a bulwark against Chinese economic supremacy in the region. Trump really shafted Japan in that case.
posted by adept256 at 7:23 PM on November 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Did Fox and Friends really run chyrons saying "ANTIFA TO OVERTHROW PRESIDENT"?

Are they fucking serious?
posted by Talez at 7:56 PM on November 4, 2017 [6 favorites]


Did Fox and Friends really run chyrons saying "ANTIFA TO OVERTHROW PRESIDENT"?

Dude, don't tell me you missed the revolution today!
posted by bongo_x at 8:03 PM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


Did Fox and Friends really run chyrons saying "ANTIFA TO OVERTHROW PRESIDENT"?

Right now, their messaging to their base is a lot of, "Trump is so successful, all these people, Clinton, Comey, Mueller, Soros, EVERYBODY is trying to Take Him Down..."

So yeah, they're already under siege from everyone, throwing antifa in there is right in line.
posted by mikelieman at 8:05 PM on November 4, 2017 [1 favorite]


Did Fox and Friends really run chyrons saying "ANTIFA TO OVERTHROW PRESIDENT"?

But NBC is the network that should lose it broadcast license.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:06 PM on November 4, 2017


Did Fox and Friends really run chyrons saying "ANTIFA TO OVERTHROW THE PRESIDENT”

lol if only
posted by lydhre at 8:07 PM on November 4, 2017 [9 favorites]


So...if antifascists want to overthrow the president...could that maybe possibly indicate that he might be...a fascist?
posted by elsietheeel at 8:08 PM on November 4, 2017 [29 favorites]


I mean
posted by The Whelk at 8:19 PM on November 4, 2017 [12 favorites]


In re Fox and Friends: Until fairly recently I thought that they were just consciously yanking everyone's chains and that the far right basically knew that this was motivated lying. But recently I've met far right people who thought it was literally illegal to be a communist, like if you told the FBI that someone was a communist, the FBI would take them to jail. People also thought that the teacher's union was funding radical left organizing because (and I shit you not) left-wing events often advertise that snacks will be provided and snacks cost money, so there must be some kind of suspicious outside funding, and the teacher's union would obviously be a natural source of that kind of slush money.

What struck me about all of them was that they have literally no idea about law or rules or financial transactions or banks or how organizations work. It seems natural to them that the teacher's union is funneling money to various tiny radical groups because (leaving aside the political improbability of this) they don't understand how financial transactions work, what an audit is, what kinds of rules large organizations (especially unions) have to comply with, etc. It's the same reason that they don't understand why Trump can't just, eg, jail Hillary - they don't understand that power comes into being through structures, and that even a tyrant can't just wave his hand and do precisely as he wishes. They think that Trump has power because Trump is sort of a god-figure - that power inheres in him because of who he is (and to be fair, they think this of Soros too) not because of how he is positioned in a web of relationships, because they don't understand that webs of relationships more complex than kinship exist.
posted by Frowner at 8:22 PM on November 4, 2017 [120 favorites]


People also thought that the teacher's union was funding radical left organizing because (and I shit you not) left-wing events often advertise that snacks will be provided and snacks cost money, so there must be some kind of suspicious outside funding

Lester Freamon: "You follow money, you get Putin and the Mercers. But you start to follow the snacks, and you don't know where the fuck it's gonna take you."
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:35 PM on November 4, 2017 [65 favorites]


People on the right also can't seem to comprehend that people on the left legitimately hold their leftist views deeply enough to, say, drop $50 at Rite Aid on snacks. Or spend a Saturday afternoon walking around with a sign for free.

(Seriously, when we thought Nazis were going to protest our Google office, a couple local WOC activists threw together an organizing meeting with like a few hours notice and mentioned on Facebook that snacks would be appreciated, and by the time I got there with my two bags of Rite Aid, there were three long conference tables completely covered with food, with extra food stowed underneath them. Someone showed up with like 10 pizzas. There was a tray of wings. 8 cases of water. It was so much goddamn food. No Union slush funds necessary.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:46 PM on November 4, 2017 [69 favorites]


and that the far right basically knew that this was motivated lying.

This has been discussed before but like, the whole rhetoric game on the right from the 70s onward is like "We're just stringing these rubes along, we'll promise them stuff but don;t worry business core, it's just for show" and this just decays overtime as more and more grow up in these isolated conservative media spheres so now no one knows it;s supposed to be carny prattle, they all think its real.

There are lots of factors mixed in here, like with ANTIFA UPRISING!!!! being taken seriously cause ti gets people scared and riled up AND they don't have to do anything but pysch each other out online cause none of them have friends cause 21st century America is kind of horrible and arranged to be isolating but yeah, the lesson is you can literally create reality.

(and that weird projection tic where they always accuse their opponents of doing things they do.It's like a pure manifestation of guilt about their shifty tactics and not real grassroots supports)
posted by The Whelk at 8:47 PM on November 4, 2017 [17 favorites]


Two new VA Gov polls:

* Gravis: Northam up 48-43.

* Trafalgar: Northam up 49-48.

FWIW, neither of these guys are highly regarded, and Trafalgar is an explicitly R pollster.

RCP average is Northam +1.8.

There is a Siena poll dropping around 8 am tomorrow; that will probably be one of the last ones we get.

Don't forget to call/text/canvass, if you can.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:48 PM on November 4, 2017 [14 favorites]


RCP average is Northam +1.8.

*starts drinking heavily*
posted by Justinian at 8:55 PM on November 4, 2017 [26 favorites]


It's more resigned existential dread these days.
posted by Justinian at 9:00 PM on November 4, 2017 [24 favorites]


You Can't Tip a Buick: "If it were possible for cranky internet marxists to be optimists, I'd be optimistic about the possibility for the takedown of the trump organization in 2018-2019, followed by the election of President Warren in 2020."

I live optimistic, it's the only way I get through the day. And I'm cautiously optimistic here.

But I think it's President Klobuchar.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:13 PM on November 4, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's more resigned existential dread these days

Could we make it an Index as opposed to a Level, then? JCREDI flows a little better.
posted by contraption at 9:14 PM on November 4, 2017 [5 favorites]


insane optimism is the only way we're seeing the other side of daylight, so shine up your Sunday shoes, shake the knots out of your hair, get your coat and endeavor to never forget, solidarity forever!
posted by The Whelk at 9:24 PM on November 4, 2017 [11 favorites]


Insane optimism is the only way we're seeing the other side of daylight,

Grim, pragmatic determination is working for me but YMMV.

I'm Batman
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:47 PM on November 4, 2017 [19 favorites]


You don't even have to line up. There's a tub for every one of us and a scoop for every tub!
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 9:57 PM on November 4, 2017 [25 favorites]


Further tidbits on VA early vote, which is now closed (except for late mail ballots):

* It was an all time high for a non-presidential year, 31% higher than the previous record
* About 61% of the early vote came from (blue) Northern Virginia
* The largest # increase was Fairfax County (i.e., not Trump country - HRC won here 63-28)
* The largest % increases were Manassas City and Manassas Park, both of which have significant Hispanic populations

Now, as mentioned, Virginia early vote is a relatively small percentage of total vote, and there's going to be at least some cannibalization here (early voters who would have voted anyway on Election Day). But it's been shown that early vote periods does increase total turnout, and people who voted are locked in and can't change their mind. If nothing else, it's one fewer person to canvass.

So, this is probably a small factor, but seems to be pointing in Northam's favor. I'd rather see these numbers than low early vote or heavy numbers in SW Virginia.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:01 PM on November 4, 2017 [36 favorites]


I know quite a few women in their sixties and seventies who were so excited to finally have a woman president and are now afraid that they'll never live to see one.

I'm thinking it's going to be about 2048 before we get another woman involved in a presidential run. Geraldine Ferraro was 1984, and the repercussions meant it was 2016 before another tried. I'm guessing in the best scenario it's going to be straight white males for the rest of my life.
posted by happyroach at 10:02 PM on November 4, 2017 [3 favorites]


From the article on if it's possible to have a woman president:

"Imagining a woman president means preparing for a calamitous wave of misogynistic backlash, like the backlash inspired by Obama and central to Donald Trump’s win. When we elect a Madam President, I will wonder again: “Was making history in the White House worth it?”
"History suggests that the biggest obstacle to a woman aspiring to the highest office anywhere is simply that she is not a man. In every era, in every culture, as French philosopher Simone de Beauvoir pointed out, a man is the norm, and women are defined in terms of their difference from that norm. This is particularly true when it comes to our visual images and expectations for the head of state. Even in countries that have had female leaders for centuries, women who aspire to or hold higher office tend to be seen more as female leaders than as leaders, identified by the one thing that makes them most different from the norm."
"The prejudices around women run surprisingly deep and are hard to budge. My lab’s cross-cultural research has not found universal prejudices along racial and ethnic lines—suggesting that different societies invent different stereotypes depending on accidents of history. These are more arbitrary—and more changeable. Across the planet, however, we have found universal gender prejudices."


We're doomed.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:06 PM on November 4, 2017 [23 favorites]


"No dictator, no regime, no nation should ever underestimate American resolve," Trump told hundreds of cheering U.S. and Japanese troops

I hope those words echo through the void in his head while he's sitting in prison. American resolve will put him there.

he meant 'misunderestimate', surely
posted by adept256 at 10:06 PM on November 4, 2017 [13 favorites]


People also thought that the teacher's union was funding radical left organizing because (and I shit you not) left-wing events often advertise that snacks will be provided and snacks cost money, so there must be some kind of suspicious outside funding, and the teacher's union would obviously be a natural source of that kind of slush money.

this is even better than the old Fox News trope of the brandy-sniffing climate scientists who've padded their Cayman Island bank accounts with all that sweet, sweet grant money from the NSF
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 1:37 AM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]




A history of Trump’s “great memory,” and when it failed him
In his 2015 deposition over a lawsuit involving Trump University, lawyer Jason Forge (who was questioning Trump on behalf of one of the plaintiffs) asked if he recalled saying that he had "one of the best memories in the world." Trump initially responded by asking, "I don't know. Did I use that expression?" After being told there was video of him saying it, he replied, "I don't remember saying that. As good as my memory is, I don't remember that, but I have a good memory."

He did, however, stand by another past statement he had made, namely that he had "one of the all-time great memories."
posted by Buntix at 3:04 AM on November 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


via @Jérôme Cartillier (AFP), Trump on the North Korean people: "'I think they’re great people. They’re industrious. They’re warm, much warmer than the world really knows'"

"industrious"

This is Day 1, folks.


He is just reading the notes from Ambassador Rodman.
posted by srboisvert at 3:51 AM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


But recently I've met far right people who thought it was literally illegal to be a communist, like if you told the FBI that someone was a communist, the FBI would take them to jail.

This is actually technically possible if you are an immigrant. Because you would have lied about it on your application and you could be deported for lying about it. It'll be ICE that rounds you up and the jail will be a detention facility. Ditto for being a Nazi immigrant.
posted by srboisvert at 3:56 AM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Aussie journo Phillip Adams isn't bashful about talking about his history with the communist party. He said he just lies when he's asked about that at customs. He said this on national radio.
posted by adept256 at 4:06 AM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


"I don't remember saying that. As good as my memory is, I don't remember that, but I have a good memory."

This is my greatest fear. Trump is such a weasel. If the time comes that Mueller does depose him, this will be his mantra. He's not Bill Clinton, able to parse the legal definition of "sexual relations" or even the meaning of the word "is". He will stumble along vaguely, not remembering, contradicting himself from one sentence to the next. They will not be able to pin him down. His supporters will claim he is wily. We will be gnashing our teeth in despair.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:20 AM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


You don't need a confession to get a conviction.
posted by Devonian at 4:53 AM on November 5, 2017 [38 favorites]


Excuses like, "I don't recall" and "I didn't know" and being like, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - aren't really going to cut it. We're seeing some of this taking place with Sessions right now. I fully expect all the lying liars from liartown to keep lying but I also think there's going to be a great deal of timestamped evidence available.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 5:09 AM on November 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


I just want to fast forward to where it fades to black and lists how long everyone got in prison.
posted by adept256 at 5:13 AM on November 5, 2017 [122 favorites]


I'm thinking it's going to be about 2048 before we get another woman involved in a presidential run.

I never thought I’d live to see a female president and after 2016 I know for sure I won’t.
posted by winna at 5:13 AM on November 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


Is there a roster for the Mayflower Hotel meeting with the Russian ambassador?

We're going to need a bigger bingo card.
posted by jointhedance at 5:31 AM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm not convinced we won't see a female president in one of the next two elections. It's going to depend on who actually runs. I know that sounds crazy but IDGAF.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 5:33 AM on November 5, 2017 [24 favorites]


fluffy battle kitten: I'm not convinced we won't see a female president in one of the next two elections. It's going to depend on who actually runs. I know that sounds crazy but IDGAF.

I've warned about this before, but I guess I'll do it again: Autocrats like to pass power to their children to ensure they won't be prosecuted for their crimes. So there's a non-zero chance that Ivanka will run if the Russia scandal doesn't take Trump down. He could play off not running for a second term because he needs to return to run his business, she's been attending international events so they'll claim she has experience (she's with him in Asia right now), and she'll look calm and rational in comparison to him. And just from a purely vindictive standpoint, I'm sure Trump will see this as taking the prize of being the first woman President away from Hillary Clinton and gifting it to his favorite daughter. Ivanka reportedly has complained about not wanting to be political, but who knows if she's offered the chance for all that power?
posted by bluecore at 6:01 AM on November 5, 2017 [12 favorites]




It isn't going to begin well either. Remember that in absolutely any sequence of events involving a foreign invasion of the DPRK the second thing that will happen is the destruction of Seoul.

1) US launches cruise missiles at the DPRK?

2) Seoul is leveled.

or

1) China invades from the north?

2) Seoul is leveled.

or

1) Secret stealth ICBM's nuke the DPRK's bunkers?

2) Seoul is leveled.

or even

1) Aliens arrive and invade the DPRK.

2) Seoul is leveled.

There is no possible military action that can be taken against the DPRK that does not involve a retaliation against Seoul that will likely result in millions, if not tens of millions, of deaths.

To even be discussing any military action against the DPRK by anyone is to basically be telling the people of Seoul that they will be sacrificed. "Sorry you people living in Seoul, but the Republican President wants a boost in the polls, you'll be killed to achieve that."
posted by sotonohito at 6:14 AM on November 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


Ditto for being a Nazi immigrant.

Didn't a MeFite report that the new immigration forms removed that bit?
posted by elsietheeel at 6:28 AM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Va Gov update: Siena poll has Northam up, 43-40. Nate Cohn discusses how the poll used a looser voter screen than most, including some more of the "less likely to vote" group; using a standard screen, you get more like Northam 46-43.

Nate Silver points out most of the polls are showing undecideds a little high for this late in the race, and that's the uncertainty. This would imply Northam needing to get about 42% or so of the undecideds to win (if other assumptions proved correct).

This poll brings the RCP average to Northam +1.9.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:30 AM on November 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


$7 billion, dude.

Billionaire Robert Mercer did Trump a huge favor. Will he get a payback? (McClatchy)
The Internal Revenue Service is demanding a whopping $7 billion or more in back taxes from the world’s most profitable hedge fund, whose boss’s wealth and cyber savvy helped Donald Trump pole-vault into the White House.

Suddenly, the government’s seven-year pursuit of Renaissance Technologies LLC is blanketed in political intrigue, now that the hedge fund’s reclusive, anti-establishment co-chief executive, Robert Mercer, has morphed into a political force who might be owed a big presidential favor.

With Trump in the Oval Office, Mercer and his daughter Rebekah, who has become his public voice, seem armed with political firepower every which way you look – and that’s even though presidential adviser Stephen Bannon, their former senior executive and political strategist, appears to have recently lost influence.

Since the IRS found in 2010 that a complicated banking method used by Renaissance and about 10 other hedge funds was a tax-avoidance scheme, Mercer has gotten increasingly active in politics. According to data from the Center for Responsive Politics, he doled out more than $22 million to outside conservative groups seeking to influence last year’s elections, while advocating the abolition of the IRS and much of the federal government.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:53 AM on November 5, 2017 [36 favorites]


New WaPo/ABC poll out and Donny won't be happy. Poll: Trump’s performance lags behind even tepid public expectations

Approval: 37 - 59. The lowest at this point of a presidency in the 70 year history of modern polling. And not by a little. The -22 net is the worst by 33 points.

Approve of his handling of...
Race: 28 - 70
Economy: 44 - 53
Health care: 26 - 70
Keeping promises: 35 - 55

Also:

Good at making political deals? 37 Yes - 58 No
Biased against women? 55 Yes - 40 No
Biased against black people? 50 Yes - 42 No
posted by chris24 at 6:54 AM on November 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


. So there's a non-zero chance that Ivanka will run if the Russia scandal doesn't take Trump down.

Ivanka's on the list of indictments. Marrying Kushner was one huge mistake.
posted by mikelieman at 6:58 AM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Nate Silver points out most of the polls are showing undecideds a little high for this late in the race, and that's the uncertainty. This would imply Northam needing to get about 42% or so of the undecideds to win (if other assumptions proved correct).
Presumably, people who are undecided at this point are highly likely not to vote? I know there are some people who vote in every single election, but my hunch is that a lot of those people are going to stay home.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:59 AM on November 5, 2017


Ditto for being a Nazi immigrant.

Didn't a MeFite report that the new immigration forms removed that bit?


Form I-485, Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status (rev. 06/26/17), page 12, part 8, item 57:
During the period from March 23, 1933 to May 8, 1945, did you ever order, incite, assist, or otherwise participate in the persecution of any person because of race, religion, national origin, or political opinion, in association with either the Nazi government of Germany or any organization or government associated or allied with the Nazi government of Germany?
Form N-400, Application for Naturalization (rev. 12/23/16), page 12, part 12, item 13:
Between March 23, 1933 and May 8, 1945, did you work for or associate in any way (either directly or indirectly) with:

A. The Nazi government of Germany?

B. Any government in any area occupied by, allied with, or established with the help of the Nazi
government of Germany?

C. Any German, Nazi, or S.S. military unit, paramilitary unit, self-defense unit, vigilante unit, citizen unit, police unit, government agency or office, extermination camp, concentration camp, prisoner of war camp, prison, labor camp, or transit camp?
If you're at all curious about what's involved in immigrating to the United States, take a few minutes and read these forms. And while you're at it, also check out Form I-130, Petition for Alien Relative, and Form I-130A, Supplemental Information for Spouse Beneficiary (link on same page). I dare you to fill them out for yourself without having to look something up or second-guessing yourself about whether or not you're being truthful. And then remember that these are just the forms you have to fill out for your initial filing, before you even begin the process of biometrics, background checks, medical examinations, interviews, and everything else. And of course it costs hundreds or even thousands of dollars just to file the forms, and if you screw up you don't get your money back. Seriously, most people have absolutely no idea.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:07 AM on November 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


Less likely to vote, for sure. Cohn talks a bit about the model in that thread.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:08 AM on November 5, 2017


BREAKING ON MSNBC: Mueller has enough evidence to charge Flynns Sr. And Jr.

Ivanka's on the list of indictments. Marrying Kushner was one huge mistake.

From your comment to Rob's ear. I believe the reports that Javanka want to slither back to their lives as Manhattan socialites. Ivanka does not want to be president.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:14 AM on November 5, 2017 [29 favorites]


That whole hat signing thing...I'm losing my mind so all morning I've been yelling at my dogs TOAST AND AVOCADO MAKING BREAKFAST EVEN GREATER. SHAMPOO AND CONDITIONER MAKING HAIR EVEN GREATER. SCHENN AND SUNDQVIST MAKING BLUES EVEN GREATER. etc. Try it, it's fun.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:21 AM on November 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


The Internal Revenue Service is demanding a whopping $7 billion or more in back taxes from the world’s most profitable hedge fund

For anyone wondering what all the pandering to the Titans of Industry is costing us as a society: this is more than the ENTIRE BUDGET of the National Science Foundation.
posted by Dashy at 7:30 AM on November 5, 2017 [65 favorites]


Mueller Has Enough Evidence to Bring Charges in Flynn Investigation, JULIA AINSLEY, CAROL E. LEE and KEN DILANIAN, NBC News.
posted by AwkwardPause at 7:31 AM on November 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


So - Flynn hasn't flipped?

Or is Mueller trolling the toddler to see who he'll pardon?
posted by Dashy at 7:34 AM on November 5, 2017


I think they're hoping Sr. will talk to save Jr.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:36 AM on November 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I dare you to fill them out for yourself without having to look something up or second-guessing yourself about whether or not you're being truthful. And then remember that these are just the forms you have to fill out for your initial filing, before you even begin the process of biometrics, background checks, medical examinations, interviews, and everything else. And of course it costs hundreds or even thousands of dollars just to file the forms, and if you screw up you don't get your money back.

oh god all of this, so much of this
and the forms change every year or two and ask for different information so by the time you scrape everything together you might have to print everything out afresh and start again
and the fees are indeed in the thousands
and often you're submitting copies of multiple documents in triplicate -- the cost just for making all those copies can be considerable, plus the cost of obtaining originals of documents you might not have, and all the passport-style photos, not to mention having all that paper overnighted so you have package tracking
and even if you don't screw something up, sometimes the paperwork gets screwed up anyway, and if it does it is Y O U R F A U L T
like if someone working on your file misplaces one of the (literally) 600 pieces of paper in your file, or the pages of your application stick together, or someone spills coffee on it or something, they'll stop all processing and send you a cranky letter and then you have to fix the problem, somehow
and when this happens it stops the clock on your processing, you lose your place in line, and you start alllllll over again
three months into the application process? TOO BAD. back to the beginning for you.
posted by halation at 7:40 AM on November 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


So - Flynn hasn't flipped?

Yeah, I was sure that Flynn's public silence indicated he had been turned, maybe even pre-Comey-firing.
posted by pjenks at 7:42 AM on November 5, 2017


So - Flynn hasn't flipped?

The only sources for the MSNBC story are anonymous ones "familiar with the investigation", so this may or may not mean another round of Monday morning indictments. My betting is, Flynn's lawyers are desperately signalling to Team Trump through these leaks that shit is about to go down so Trump better prepare his pardon pen.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:43 AM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Excuses like, "I don't recall" and "I didn't know" and being like, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - aren't really going to cut it

Expect nothing but. It's Reagans all the way down.


Reaaaagaaaaaaahhnnnn!!!
/Shatner

posted by petebest at 7:48 AM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


> My uninformed opinion: if someone attacks you, you should call the police.

Please consider that the set of all people for whom this is good advice is significantly smaller than the set of all people. "something happen? call the cops!" is not a universalizable maxim.


Shorter: This is what happens when you call the cops.
posted by phearlez at 7:54 AM on November 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


Can Flynn even flip? Pretty much assume he's in deep enough that would mean a polonium breakfast for him.
posted by Artw at 8:02 AM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


They can pull all the clueless bullshit they want and I'm sure they will. Mueller has access to way more technology than these fuckers even considered. So we've got the stupid human angle AND stupid humans using technology angles. BUT YOUR EMAILS, ASSHOLES.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:02 AM on November 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Can we please have indictments every Monday leading up to Trump on xmas day?
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:03 AM on November 5, 2017 [78 favorites]


Can Flynn even flip? Pretty much assume he's in deep enough that would mean a polonium breakfast for him.

Anyone can flip. I guess that reality has passed the standard barrier of coherence and predictability and we're now in a liminal space of infinite possibilities, but even still, Flynn getting assassinated would be the absolute craziest shit yet. Anyway, there's little downside for Putin even if it all gets exposed. He's thrown his bomb and blown American democracy the fuck up. We'll never recover from this shit. I guess Trump might want to kill them all if they turn into cooperating witnesses. But I don't think Trump is competent enough to arrange a political murder. It would go off Burn After Reading style except on Twitter, too.
posted by dis_integration at 8:19 AM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


> My betting is, Flynn's lawyers are desperately signalling to Team Trump through these leaks

Yeah, a lot of that going around. From emptywheel.net on getting JD Gordon's story out:
...from this point forward, we should expect those who have been interviewed by the FBI or grand jury to use the press to telegraph what they’ve said, so others can coordinate that story (though usually they do so through hack lawyers like Toensing, not directly). It’s a legal way to compare notes.
And also, on keeping Clovis' story straight with Papadopoulos'.
posted by klarck at 8:21 AM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Can we please have indictments every Monday leading up to Trump on xmas day?

WE COULD MAKE AN ADVENT CALENDAR
posted by halation at 8:35 AM on November 5, 2017 [73 favorites]


Mueller Has Enough Evidence to Bring Charges in Flynn Investigation

How is this even a headline?
I don't mean to bag on the people who shared this, because I guess the details would count as news or at least a refresher to some. But I feel like this whole article is only a logical conclusion based on a rehash of details that have been in the public eye all along. Given those details, of course Mueller has enough evidence to charge them both.

Is my memory playing tricks on me or something? What in here is new?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:36 AM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


The lawyers firing distress flares theory makes a lot of sense now you mention it. Lets hope it is because they realized they are utterly fucked and about to sink.
posted by Artw at 8:38 AM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Anyway, there's little downside for Putin even if it all gets exposed.

Mueller, Trump and Putin sit around the breakfast table. There is an awkward silence.

"So... how was the pull out?"
posted by adept256 at 8:43 AM on November 5, 2017 [19 favorites]


scaryblackdeath, your memory is not playing tricks on you. What *is* different is that we have actual indictments of other folks now which makes more indictments more likely. INDICTMENTS FOR EVERYONE!
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 8:47 AM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Miniature American flags for others!
posted by elsietheeel at 8:50 AM on November 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


Betsy Woodruff, Daily Beast: U.S. Sends Lesbian Refugee Back to Country Where She Was Raped

L's story is horrifying, both before and after fleeing Uganda. CBP and ICE are criminal organizations that cannot be rehabilitated.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:10 AM on November 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


My congratulations to Lalex for the post title. Pop group Propaganda - Duel (YT and terrible hairdo).
posted by Rabarberofficer at 9:28 AM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


I just realized that if you threw a "brother" or two into the transcripts of Trump's 'speeches' he'd be a dead ringer for Hulk Hogan.
posted by elsietheeel at 9:31 AM on November 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


this may or may not mean another round of Monday morning indictments.

Yes, I think it was very carefully worded. The week before it was "indictments coming down" and this is just a warning shot. This is probably why Mueller didn't want to give Flynn immunity for Flynn's story. A lot of people are betting on a pardon.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:47 AM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Content warning: The YT link posted above for "This is what happens when you call the cops" posted earlier has video of police violence.
posted by xyzzy at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2017



Can we please have indictments every Monday leading up to Trump on xmas day?

WE COULD MAKE AN ADVENT CALENDAR


Instead of chocolate it's just shots of your favorite liquor, instead of the usual swill you down every night to make this timeline bearable.
posted by numaner at 9:52 AM on November 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


On the first Monday of Trumpmas SP Mueller gave to me
Paul M, Richard G, and George P
posted by salix at 9:55 AM on November 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Excuses like, "I don't recall" and "I didn't know" and being like, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - aren't really going to cut it

Expect nothing but. It's Reagans all the way down.


That's the game plan, but there is no way this man won't be baited into a "you're damn right I ordered the code red" rant. He CANNOT look like he made a bad decision. You just have to maneuver him into "ok, so you can't remember, but probably that was stupidity on your part" situations and magically he will remember.
posted by ctmf at 9:55 AM on November 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


That's really why the best lawyers won't work for him. He can't even be trained to lie reliably.
posted by ctmf at 9:58 AM on November 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


He CANNOT look like he made a bad decision. You just have to maneuver him into "ok, so you can't remember, but probably that was stupidity on your part" situations and magically he will remember.

And when he says he didn't know what all of these bad people were doing all you have to do is say 'ah yes, guess you weren't smart enough to see it or smart enough to understand what the people you hired were doing.'

Guess they were all just way smarter than you Donnie.
posted by Jalliah at 10:01 AM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Also, he doesn't pay them!

Trump cant go an hour without lying about something. They'll have him for perjury by 10am.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:02 AM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


A fine example of punditry by Patrick Ruffini in the WaPo: Why Russia’s Facebook ad campaign wasn’t such a success.

In which he begins by asserting
I’ve run digital advertising campaigns on behalf of candidates in contested battleground states. And if the ads revealed this past week were an attempt to influence the election, they were a laughably botched and failed attempt. The total amount spent was less than what I’ve seen spent online in competitive congressional races. The ads were not well targeted to the battleground states that were most decisive. And the subject matter was designed to engage extremist voices on the political fringe, not persuadable voters undecided between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

Vladimir Putin’s propaganda victory is not the advertising itself, but the notion that just over $100,000 worth of poorly targeted Facebook advertising could swing a presidential election. It can’t.
but then goes on to admit
Despite all the focus in the past week on ads, compared to friend-to-friend sharing, a relatively small share of the Russian campaign was driven by advertising. Just 10 million of the people reached came in through the advertising campaign, out of 29 million who directly read Russian posts in their news feeds, and up to 126 million who were exposed indirectly through their Facebook friends. The Russian effort depended on the willingness of some Americans to go along with it and share. The credulity of these social media users is a fact more troubling than the advertising itself, and one not as easily addressed by policy.
So because the ads didn’t reach many people directly the campaign was a failure, but because so many morons shared them the campaign worked and we must be scared. Got it. Well done, Post.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:06 AM on November 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


the cost of obtaining originals of documents you might not have, and all the passport-style photos, not to mention having all that paper overnighted so you have package tracking

My favorite part was discovering that my birth certificate, that i had used for my entire life, was not actually my official birth certificate.

Our immigration lawyer just laughed and said "All Canadians make that mistake".

So at the age of 45, applying to live in my third country, I got my first official birth certificate.

(PRO TIP FOR CANADIANS - You have to get your long form birth certificate. If it helps pretend you are an awesome president that they are trying to de-legitimize).
posted by srboisvert at 10:06 AM on November 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


'ah yes, guess you weren't smart enough to see it or smart enough to understand what the people you hired were doing.'

You were Ronnie to his Nancy! Sonny to his Cher! Ringo to his rest of the Beatles!
posted by saturday_morning at 10:07 AM on November 5, 2017


poorly targeted

Way to dis the fine work of Cambridge Analytica.
posted by Artw at 10:09 AM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Mike Flynn Junior's trying to drown his sorrows in his Lib Tears mug.

@mflynnJR
The SJW are out in full this morning....the disappointment on your faces when I don’t go to jail will be worth all your harassment...

posted by Rust Moranis at 10:15 AM on November 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


And when he says he didn't know what all of these bad people were doing all you have to do is say 'ah yes, guess you weren't smart enough to see it or smart enough to understand what the people you hired were doing.'

Sometimes he even takes credit for masterminding things just to upstage the people who really did do it. He admits to things that are already explained away by his surrogates' (lame) smoke screens and about to die off. He can't stop himself. His ego is so huge it's self-sabotaging.

I think he'd have an interesting case for being incompetent to stand trial. Of course, that lands him right into a slam-dunk Article 25.
posted by ctmf at 10:20 AM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


the disappointment on your faces when I don’t go to jail will be worth all your harassment...

If this is ever a sentence you find yourself saying, you're maybe not as safe as you think you are.
posted by Rykey at 10:21 AM on November 5, 2017 [91 favorites]




Sounds like the Russians targeted precisely the people they needed to target: gullible people predisposed to believe what you want them to believe based on their stated interests.
posted by xyzzy at 10:25 AM on November 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


NYT: Wilbur Ross has money in a Russian natural gas shipping firm tied to Putin's son-in-law.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:26 AM on November 5, 2017 [35 favorites]


If this is ever a sentence you find yourself saying, you're maybe not as safe as you think you are.

At work we like to say, "if you're having to explain yourself, you're already behind." Meaning, in a regulatory environment, if you're not clearly meeting requirements to even the most casual observer, you need to be meeting them better.

I mean, he didn't even say he didn't do it. Just that he won't go to jail. Not the same thing.
posted by ctmf at 10:27 AM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur L. Ross Jr. has a stake in a shipping firm that receives millions of dollars a year in revenue from a company whose key owners include Russian President Vladimir Putin’s son-in-law and a Russian tycoon sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department as a member of Putin’s inner circle.
Ross’ continuing Navigator investment was so indirectly disclosed that Senators who voted on his confirmation didn’t know about it.
posted by adamvasco at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


That's really why the best lawyers won't work for him. He can't even be trained to lie reliably.

Also the best lawyers won't touch him with a ten foot pole, so if I were him I'd be sweating bullets. But I have common sense and self-awareness...

(Edit: I misread your comment. Yeesh. Suffice to say, I heartily agree!)
posted by elsietheeel at 10:29 AM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Vladimir Putin’s propaganda victory is not the advertising itself, but the notion that just over $100,000 worth of poorly targeted Facebook advertising could swing a presidential election. It can’t.

129m saw ads. Election swung by 80k votes. Thats .06% of those who saw ads. Yep, about one twentieth of one percent. And this doesn't count the 288m Twitter impressions. That takes it down to .02%. I don't know but I think it could've had an impact.
posted by chris24 at 10:44 AM on November 5, 2017 [56 favorites]


Our immigration lawyer just laughed and said "All Canadians make that mistake"

ha, yes, this exact thing happened to someone i'm close to. which in turn led to the fun of trying to find a guarantor for someone who was not living in canada at the time and had not been for some years. and that was for a country where you can, at least, if you can remember all sorts of obscure data (like the name of the attending physician at your birth) order online and have it sent out to you! people trying to get records from governments where you have to apply in person, or where recordkeeping may be spotty, have a far worse time of it.
posted by halation at 10:53 AM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur L. Ross Jr. has a stake in a shipping firm that receives millions of dollars a year in revenue from a company whose key owners include Russian President Vladimir Putin’s son-in-law and a Russian tycoon sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department as a member of Putin’s inner circle.

These are part of the Paradise Papers, a leak of documents published by the ICIJ. Seems like there was quite a few people from the administration involved.
posted by zabuni at 10:56 AM on November 5, 2017 [37 favorites]


I just realized I get nauseous now every time I think about Virginia, so that’s...awesome.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:06 AM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Tonight's Panorama looks to be all about the Paradise Papers investigation. [Link is to BBC iPlayer so may not work outside the UK without a VPN].

The UK Royal Family are also, allegedly, involved in dodgy offshoring of capital. I am so very shocked; if we can't trust the aristocracy....
posted by Buntix at 11:18 AM on November 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


/takes big swig of Pepto-Bismol, offers bottle to schadenfrau
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:20 AM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Maybe we* established that conflict of interest wasn't a thing too early?

*not actually us.
posted by Artw at 11:28 AM on November 5, 2017


Sounds like the Russians targeted precisely the people they needed to target: gullible people predisposed to believe what you want them to believe based on their stated interests.

I suspect they also targeted the psychologically vulnerable and tramatized as small multipliers, knowing they’d (I should probably say “we” here) be more suggestible and hyper-acutely attuned to perceived sleights and threats.
posted by saulgoodman at 11:34 AM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Advertiser claims advertising isn't really effective. Planted news story at - well, now.

Same as it ever was
Same as it ever was
Same as it ev-ver was
posted by petebest at 11:56 AM on November 5, 2017


> I suspect they also targeted the psychologically vulnerable and tramatized as small multipliers

Social science outplays psychology here. There were points of obvious instability that this campaign targeted, to increase volatility, not to coerce. Man, I wish the science of complex systems were better understood. The stupidly named butterfly effect sounds like utter unpredictability. But at a systems level, you can influence dramatic changes, without having them at any time under your "control". The Russians are good at precisely that.
posted by stonepharisee at 12:18 PM on November 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Fair enough, but if your goal is to panic people and elicit overreactions, targeting people with PTSD would be a no-brainer due to the hyper-vigilance and impulsivity associated with the condition.
posted by saulgoodman at 12:56 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


More heartbreak.

NYT developing: Texas Church Shooting Leaves More Than 20 Dead

Evil in pure distilled form.

@realDonaldTrump: May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI & law enforcement are on the scene. I am monitoring the situation from Japan.

Also, it isn't clear whether it is time to politicize this tragedy or not, since not enough details are public yet. I have no hesitation in guessing that the availability of guns was a factor, though.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:01 PM on November 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI & law enforcement are on the scene. I am monitoring the situation from Japan.

I can't help but notice he doesn't immediately have insults for the attacker or suggestions for what the government can do this time.

Hey, do you think this shooter might be white?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:06 PM on November 5, 2017 [60 favorites]


Right now it is not time to politicize this tragedy. It is time for Thoughts and Prayers. If the Official Big Pile of Thoughts and Prayers reaches an undisclosed but finite threshold, all future shooters will be repelled by their power.
posted by delfin at 1:07 PM on November 5, 2017 [16 favorites]


I can't help but notice he doesn't immediately have insults for the attacker or suggestions for what the government can do this time.

Probably written by a staffer, Trump is snoozing somewhere in Asia.
posted by PenDevil at 1:09 PM on November 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'm beginning to think "Thoughts & Prayers" are having the opposite desired outcome.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 1:09 PM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


It is time for Thoughts and Prayers.

I had somebody tell me today that we don't have a gun control problem but rather a people problem that could be solved with closer communities and more faith in God. I read that on my phone before I got out of bed this morning. Before I even thought about having lunch, somebody had shot up a church.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:10 PM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


It's been barely one month since the Las Vegas shooting. How long until 20+ casualty events are weekly events? Clearly we need to Think&Pray harder.
posted by Justinian at 1:12 PM on November 5, 2017 [28 favorites]


Reading Trump’s tweets in response to mass murder is an exercise in compare and contrast, innit? Main variable appears to be skin color.
posted by lydhre at 1:47 PM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


At this point it's like hearing about a bunch of people getting killed in a highway car crash. Yeah, it sucks, but what can you do? That's just the risk they took when they decided to leave their houses.
posted by Faint of Butt at 2:05 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


I haven't reached numbness yet, just anger. I get angry before I even hear the fucking thoughts and prayers that spew out of their mouth.

Fuck thoughts and prayers.
posted by lydhre at 2:07 PM on November 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


I know things in the Baptist Church aren't done the same as in my church, but this is a special day on the Christian calendar. Today is the day when we pray for loved ones who have passed on and especially anyone who has died in the previous year. I feel like I have a job on the Sunday after All Saints Day and this year I was ready. I had a list of people to pray for, which this year included a child who made it far enough through gestation to have a name. My church always goes the extra mile for music, bringing in an orchestra to play Mozart and wheeling in the Harpsichord.

That's why I am so angry that there are more people to pray for on this day. People who did not deserve to die in this way in a safe place. And let's be real, this is a regular occurrence in the US in almost any place: in church, at the park, at school, in the club, on the street.

I'm really angry that prayer is used as a substitute for doing anything by the people in power; that I can't trust anyone to do the least thing to make things different. I can't believe that we can't do something simple like ban bump stocks because congress is run by cowards who are realistically choosing to let innocent people die rather than get tough on guns.

What are our options for doing something? Anything? I can't believe that people are actively working against gathering statistics on gun violence.
posted by Alison at 2:08 PM on November 5, 2017 [33 favorites]


What are our options for doing something? Anything?

Stop voting for Republicans for any position. Not even dogcatcher.
posted by Justinian at 2:10 PM on November 5, 2017 [91 favorites]


My reaction is almost complete numbness. Every shooting event sets the same sequence of events into motion.

Felt pretty gross this morning when I saw the headline and decided to keep scrolling without clicking, because at this point we've been through enough of these that I know the first batch of articles won't have much to say beyond the headline and that no solid details will have filled in yet. The savvy news consumer patiently waits to do all of his atrocity reading for the day in one go. Of course, I'm still waiting on that "motive" detail to fill in on the Las Vegas shooting. And also for any evidence that we've even started healing from Columbine yet.

Do you think the NRA films fresh agitprop when they're worried that a specific shooting might spur real action on gun control, or do you think they keep a few in the can and ready to go, give or take a little editing?
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:19 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Only a temporary fix because the people really fixated on having power and control will soon realize the Republican brand is tainted and just start focusing on “realigning” the Democrats and jumping ship if a straight Republican boycott ever reached critical mass, and because the Democratic party is effectively organized as a business, too, that depends on fund raising and is susceptible to financial influence, eventually those who can make it rain consistently will still end up winning the party over given enough time and concerted effort. Not like we haven’t seen such “realignments” before and we’ll see them again.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:20 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


I am cynical enough to wonder if the members of a tiny Baptist church in Texas will still be unwilling to talk about gun control even after this. So far no loss has been shocking enough.
posted by emjaybee at 2:21 PM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Don’t get too mad at the thoughts and prayers folks. A lot of them really just don’t know what to do and feel powerless and the ritual well-wishing is about self soothing and not despairing as much as helping. But bottom line, they wouldn’t do it if the acts themselves didn’t hurt and scare them, too.
posted by saulgoodman at 2:23 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Unless I'm missing some (possible with so many mass shootings) the 5 deadliest mass shootings in modern US history have all occurred in the last 10 years. 3 of them in the last 15 months.
posted by Justinian at 2:25 PM on November 5, 2017 [33 favorites]


A lot of them really just don’t know what to do and feel powerless and the ritual well-wishing is about self soothing and not despairing as much as helping.

I am angry precisely at those who are the ONLY ones in a position to do something about it and choose thoughts and prayers instead. Like, oh, our entire governing body.
posted by lydhre at 2:28 PM on November 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


Only a temporary fix

Don't care. I'll take it.

We can talk about preventative care after the bleeding stops.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:32 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


There was a deadly shooting around the corner late Friday night, less than 24 hours after the stabbing that happened down the block earlier that day. It almost feels like these are just the "normal" crimes now.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:36 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


What are our options for doing something? Anything?

Outlaw the NRA as a terrorist organization.
posted by adept256 at 2:36 PM on November 5, 2017 [70 favorites]


Right, "thoughts and prayers" are for those of use who ARE powerless and don't have anything else we can do to help.

If a politician wants to offer thoughts and prayers they should be more along the lines of, "I offer my thoughts and prayers for those affected and pray for the wisdom and dedication to help me find solutions to prevent these sorts of tragedies from happening in the future."
posted by VTX at 2:37 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]




This must, must, must become part of political debates for higher office.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:48 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


I have a feeling when history of this time is written, mass shootings and the absolute failure of the republic to address them is going to be seen as indicative as the failing state of the union. I don't know why, exactly, but maybe for the wanting to find a narrative that makes sense, even if the narrative is a grim one.
posted by angrycat at 2:50 PM on November 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


So, I think we need to start talking about the Gun Violence Epidemic. Naming something an epidemic is a demonstrated way to influence people's feelings. The word epidemic makes it sound like we need to DO something about it. It's a scary word. It implies it's going to get worse unless something happens to stop it.

I actually really hate the hype about the "opiod epidemic" for similar reasons, because it's such a scary term that it encourages legislators to do Anything just to say they did something, and often the things they end up doing (Make the laws tougher!!) aren't the things that are really needed in such a complicated public health issue.

But in this case? We need some fucking panic and alarm bells. We have got to change the conversation away from "tragedy" and "thoughts and prayers." A tragedy sounds inevitable. An epidemic is something you can and must fight.
posted by threeturtles at 2:53 PM on November 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


thoughts and prayers? fuck that, make me a sandwich.
posted by j_curiouser at 2:58 PM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


just gonna go ahead and post this informative chart again.

There's also this word cloud for how Trump responds to terror attacks if the attacker is white vs non-white. (Incidentally, this chart shows that Trump's mention of "God" was an early confirmation the shooter was white.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:04 PM on November 5, 2017 [32 favorites]


I like to imagine what America would be like if every five or six weeks, a bridge collapsed, killing twenty or thirty people, and it were considered fully acceptable for politicians’ responses to boil down to “thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers”
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:10 PM on November 5, 2017 [58 favorites]


Shooter was Devin Patrick Kelley, 26 years old ex-military.
posted by Justinian at 3:13 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


To quote myself from the last time: “The body count gets breathlessly splashed all over the place (this is the most important thing right? How many people died? Is it the most ever? The second most?), the shooter gets the in depth coverage and dissection of their psyche their narcissism would have been gratified by, and the victims are largely receded into the background. Congress will continue to sit on it's ass and refuse to implement even the most common-sense gun control legislation and continue to pass on their oh so useful "thoughts and prayers" while accepting NRA and weapons manufacturer money. They don't give a shit about the victims of gun violence. The American public will still refuse to look in the mirror and figure out why the hell we're so angry and violent and frightened by everything, and why so much of our society is powered by raging wounded egos and toxic masculinity. Til the next time. And the next. Same as it ever was.”

I can just reuse this forever.

There’s no magic method for convincing gun rights cultists or the GOP to take this seriously and do something. There’s no messaging or phrasing that will get through to them. There’s no body count too high or victims too tragic. Trying to find the right combination of words or statistics or stories or images is a fools errand.

If you want action on gun control elect Democrats.
posted by supercrayon at 3:15 PM on November 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


time in the sandbox, then ptsd, then shitty or no VA treatment? pretty unlikely. /s (purely speculative i know)
posted by j_curiouser at 3:16 PM on November 5, 2017


The Daily Beast says his mother in law lived in Sutherland Springs.

Odds are this is an abusive man angry about a woman.

Just like almost all the others.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:19 PM on November 5, 2017 [63 favorites]


how can you claim that you respect human life while choosing fealty to weapons-makers over support for measures favored by the vast majority of your constituents

Weapons makers are their constituents.
posted by Dr. Send at 3:19 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Prepare your surprised face -- Matthew Miller shared this 2015 tweet from the governor of Texas:
@GregAbbott_TX 28 Oct 2015
I'm EMBARRASSED: Texas #2 in nation for new gun purchases, behind CALIFORNIA. Let's pick up the pace Texans. @NRA
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:19 PM on November 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


If you want, you can sign the Politicize My Death pledge, where you ask your friends and family members to go right ahead and immediately politicize your death if you ever become a victim of gun violence.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:20 PM on November 5, 2017 [66 favorites]


This is on Fox news right now (emphasis mine). Not fake:
----
Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton (R) gave a sad warning in the wake of the gun massacre at a Texas church Sunday morning.

"This is going to happen again," the attorney general predicted.

A man walked into the 11:30 service at First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas and started firing, killing at least 25 people including children and injuring over a dozen more.

Paxton added that churches, places of business and schools should have policies addressing the possibility of a shooter so they can protect their communities.

"I wish some law would fix all of this," he said.

"All I can say is in Texas at least we have the opportunity to have conceal carry," he explained. "And so ... there's always the opportunity that gunman will be taken out before he has the opportunity to kill very many people."

posted by eyesontheroad at 3:28 PM on November 5, 2017 [32 favorites]


Odds are this is an abusive man angry about a woman.

Samantha bee covered this on her last show, that domestic violence is a common denominator in mass shooters.

...and a boy scout was kicked out of his den for pointing this out to a state rep. She gave him a Thunder Cub patch!
posted by adept256 at 3:30 PM on November 5, 2017 [35 favorites]


I would honestly be surprised if nobody in that church in Sutherland Springs, Texas was carrying a gun.
posted by maggiemaggie at 3:30 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Jesus Christ. These people...they don’t share our reality.

They have no self-awareness. It’s as though their belief in something makes it so. They don’t care about evidence, or logic. They create their reality based on how it feels to them.

It’s not cynicism anymore. It’s not people in power spinning bullshit while the NRA pays them off. The NRA doesn’t have to do that anymore, because they’re all true believers in a shared fucking delusion.
posted by schadenfrau at 3:32 PM on November 5, 2017 [32 favorites]


We had three mass shootings around the country yesterday. Three. You didn't hear about them because the victim numbers weren't high enough. I doubt Paul Ryan bothered to send out his thoughts and prayers. Maybe in a few years any number under 50 will fly under the radar.

People keep asking, "What can we do"? First we have to vote for people who promise to do something other than shrug their shoulders or lay the blame on evil. Then we have to hold them accountable. We also have to be brave and challenge the notion that everyone is entitled to as many guns as they want. We have to define "arms" and "well regulated militia " in a way that makes sense. No more semi-automatics, I don't care how fun they are. Strict background checks for domestic violence including girlfriends and violence to other women. We should look into limiting ammunition. And by the way it's not too late to prohibit bump stock.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:36 PM on November 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


The talking heads on MSNBC were chatting matter-of-factly earlier about how places of worship really need serious security systems.

Or maybe we should all just wear kevlar everywhere we go.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:37 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


According to a witness (with the usual caveats about witness accuracy) it lasted 15 seconds. 27 people, 15 seconds. For all the rightwing idiots who snark about banning knives or cars, show me the knives that can kill that quick, or the car you can carry into a location.
posted by chris24 at 3:39 PM on November 5, 2017 [64 favorites]


The talking heads on MSNBC were chatting matter-of-factly earlier about how places of worship really need serious security systems.

That's stupid. If churches had serious security systems shooters would hit movie theaters. If movie theaters then upgraded security they would hit grocery stores. And so on. You harden places which are intrinsically targets like military bases, high level governmental buildings, prisons, and so on. You can't do that with places which are targets of opportunity because the asshole loser murderers will simply pick a different target.
posted by Justinian at 3:40 PM on November 5, 2017 [27 favorites]


I've been wracking my brain and having very frustrating conversations with conservative friends on FB and in person trying to get them out of the conservative news bubble. I haven't made any progress. I'm doubtful anyone can make any significant progress.

So I wonder if this might be a good alternative: install ad-blocker on their browsers, or recommend it to them. I like uBlock Origin (Chrome). You can do it under the guise of security or improving their browsing experience. But Breitbart et al make a lot of their money through advertising and I'm sure they would be frustrated by an army of dingbats reading their garbage without ever seeing an ad.

I'm wondering if any of the TV commercial muting devices out there actually work...
posted by cman at 3:42 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


"All I can say is in Texas at least we have the opportunity to have conceal carry," he explained. "And so ... there's always the opportunity that gunman will be taken out before he has the opportunity to kill very many people."
“With any luck, someone else will murder him before he can murder more people.”

OR:

“That’s the brilliant part of the plan! When winter rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.”
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:53 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]




From Politico:
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) sustained five fractured ribs after he was assaulted by a neighbor at his Bowling Green home on Friday, a top adviser said Sunday — and it’s unclear when the senator will be able to return to Washington for work.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 3:58 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) sustained five fractured ribs after he was assaulted by a neighbor at his Bowling Green home on Friday, a top adviser said Sunday — and it’s unclear when the senator will be able to return to Washington for work.

Oh and on this, the nutjob right is using the fact that the neighbor who attacked him is registered as a Democrat as the latest evidence that the left are the truly violent ones.
posted by chris24 at 4:01 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh and on this, the nutjob right is using the fact that the neighbor who attacked him is registered as a Democrat as the latest evidence that the left are the truly violent ones.

When someone points to liberals and claims "violence", I respond, "Go read the wikipedia article on strawmen"
posted by mikelieman at 4:04 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


"All I can say is in Texas at least we have the opportunity to have conceal carry," he explained. "And so ... there's always the opportunity that gunman will be taken out before he has the opportunity to kill very many people."

Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME.

One of the neighbors was armed and shot back.

This dude killed 27 people in fifteen fucking seconds. Even in this scenario where there was a "good guy with a gun" who managed to shoot the guy and drive him off, it didn't matter a bloody bit because he'd already mowed down 27 people. What the fuck is wrong with these people? I use the term gun rights cultists again because there is no other explanation for the collective mass delusion and utter detachment from reality that they all seem to be suffering from.
posted by supercrayon at 4:05 PM on November 5, 2017 [110 favorites]


On another subject, since we talked about the Saudi Arabia purge previously, a helicopter crashed, killing Prince Mansour bin Muqrin, the son of a former crown prince. The Lebanese Prime Minister suddenly resigned from Riyadh, an unusual choice of location for such an event. And a Houthi missile was launched into Saudi Arabia from Yemen.

David Hearst's take is interesting, though speculative, and at the end, he brings it round to US politics:
Would all this have happened without another green light from Trump? He tweeted yesterday that he "would very much appreciate Saudi Arabia doing their IPO of Aramco with the New York Stock Exchange, important to the United States!” Trump also called King Salman, congratulating him for everything he did since coming to power. The moves follow Jared Kushner’s third visit to the kingdom this year.

If it was not apparent to one and all, it surely must be now. The capital of insecurity in the Middle East is Riyadh, and moves by a 32-year old prince to acquire absolute power are capable of destabilising neighbouring countries and removing their prime ministers. Worse, this prince appears to be encouraged by a US president who does not know what he is doing
posted by zachlipton at 4:06 PM on November 5, 2017 [31 favorites]


Everything about that story is weird, especially the complete lack of reporting (that I’ve seen) about motive.

And everything is an opportunity to attack the other tribe.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:06 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh and on this, the nutjob right is using the fact that the neighbor who attacked him is registered as a Democrat as the latest evidence that the left are the truly violent ones.

What about, "now is not the time to politicize the assault on Sen. Ryan"?
posted by thelonius at 4:07 PM on November 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


When a big problem happens at work, say a crane accident, we intentionally go through a few phases. First is all stop. We don't know what happened, and until we do we don't want another one. The presumption is all crane work is stopped and anyone who thinks they're different has an uphill climb to get exempted from the moratorium. Pretty quickly, we come up with what we call "bridging actions" - ok, it's super expensive to make everyone wait. Maybe you can use a crane during the investigation WITH a senior manager onsite, who will grill the shit out of you the whole time and shut you down if you blink too hard. We are not back to normal until we figure out what happened, why, and develop some long-term corrective actions, and some temporary ones to cover the gap while we put the long-term ones in place.

So it's odd to me that we can't just start right out with, All Stop: Guns not permitted in public places. Period. Apply for exceptions at the police station. Exceptions must include a justification (Australia style) and risk mitigation proposal.

That's the starting negotiation position. Want to lift the restriction? Better come to the table with something meaningful. You tell me how this isn't going to happen again.
posted by ctmf at 4:12 PM on November 5, 2017 [68 favorites]


Everything about that story is weird, especially the complete lack of reporting (that I’ve seen) about motive.

And everything is an opportunity to attack the other tribe.


schadenfrau, the crazy thing about your comment is it could easily be about any the of topics discussed in the past twenty minutes in this thread--the shooting in Texas, Rand Paul's neighborhood, or the situation in Saudi Arabia.
posted by chaoticgood at 4:12 PM on November 5, 2017 [45 favorites]


Boston Globe: 309 days, 307 mass shootings

The occasional horrific civilian massacre is just the price the rest of us have to pay. Over and over, again apparently.


For the love of God, 307 mass shootings in 309 days isn't fucking occasional. It's two shootings away from DAILY.
posted by elsietheeel at 4:17 PM on November 5, 2017 [18 favorites]


Perhaps this guy's militia just wasn't well regulated enough.
posted by petebest at 4:18 PM on November 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


One of the neighbors was armed and shot back.

This dude killed 27 people in fifteen fucking seconds. Even in this scenario where there was a "good guy with a gun" who managed to shoot the guy and drive him off, it didn't matter a bloody bit because he'd already mowed down 27 people.


But you know the prevailing narrative is going to be "brave hero neighbor stopped it from being even worse, and fuck yeah everybody should be packing everywhere all the time."
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:20 PM on November 5, 2017 [12 favorites]


It's incredible that, statistically, the US has mass shootings on a more frequent basis than Canada has auto accidents involving moose.
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:22 PM on November 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


Seems like the lesson here would be guns in church are bad, not carry more guns in church.
posted by triage_lazarus at 4:29 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]


If it was not apparent to one and all, it surely must be now. The capital of insecurity in the Middle East is Riyadh, and moves by a 32-year old prince to acquire absolute power are capable of destabilising neighbouring countries and removing their prime ministers. Worse, this prince appears to be encouraged by a US president who does not know what he is doing

I can hazard a guess as to what Trump and Kushner are encouraging, too - just like Trump wanted China to be the one responsible for the North Korea problem, he probably wants Saudi Arabia to be responsible for Middle East problems. Basically encouraging them to build up strength to dominate their whole backyard because then Trump can wash his hands of the whole thing, he's never met a responsibility he couldn't shirk. And it's probably a worldview encouraged in Trump by Putin, who is really really on board with the whole regional hegemony thing.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:38 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


From Axios:
In late June, President Trump hosted a group of Native American tribal leaders at the White House and urged them to "just do it" and extract whatever they want from the land they control.

The exchange turned out to be an unusually vivid window into the almost kingly power that Trump sees himself as holding, and which he has begun describing with increasing bluntness. The scene was recounted by a source in the room and confirmed by another. The White House didn't dispute the story.

The chiefs explained to Trump that there were regulatory barriers preventing them from getting at their energy. Trump replied: "But now it's me. The government's different now. Obama's gone; and we're doing things differently here."

"So what I'm saying is, just do it."

There was a pause in the room and the tribal leaders looked at each other.

"Chief, chief," Trump continued, addressing one of the tribal leaders, "what are they going to do? Once you get it out of the ground are they going to make you put it back in there? I mean, once it's out of the ground it can't go back in there. You've just got to do it. I'm telling you, chief, you've just got to do it."

The tribal leader looked back at one of the White House officials in the room — perhaps somebody from the White House Counsel's office — and he said "can we just do that?" The official equivocated, saying the administration is making progress and has a plan to roll back various regulations.
(A second source in the room claims this was just Trump being Trump and he wasn't really telling them to break federal law.)

Much as I appreciate a surprisingly strong view of Native sovereignty that Trump isn't entirely espousing here, that he is saying "now it's me" so forget about all that pesky law stuff Obama had and go ahead and do whatever you want is disturbing as hell.
posted by zachlipton at 4:38 PM on November 5, 2017 [120 favorites]


Re the assault on Rand Paul and the church shooting: What are we going to do about all the white on white violence? Not even our elected representatives are safe from white American violence, nor are white people who are currently praying at a church (I guess they weren't thinking, you need both). What's that you say, it's just called gun violence when white people do it? Cuz the guns just go crazy sometimes?

Everything is just, ugh. Now excuse me while I go to a celebration of life. Seriously.
posted by Belle O'Cosity at 4:46 PM on November 5, 2017 [25 favorites]


Much as I appreciate a surprisingly strong view of Native sovereignty that Trump isn't entirely espousing here, that he is saying "now it's me" so forget about all that pesky law stuff Obama had and go ahead and do whatever you want is disturbing as hell.

It feels like a setup, honestly. Like I would expect him to wait until they take the bait and start extracting resources and then turn around and use it to justify some horrible land grab to give those resources to his cronies.
posted by jason_steakums at 4:46 PM on November 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


Zach, we saw this very early on when he apparently thought executive orders were edicts. As in, he thought he could just write laws and sign them and that was it. It's those treasonous judges that hold him back.
posted by adept256 at 4:47 PM on November 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


But you know the prevailing narrative is going to be "brave hero neighbor stopped it from being even worse, and fuck yeah everybody should be packing everywhere all the time."

Yep. The gun crowd are saying that a) he had the gun illegally (because he was dishonorably discharged) therefore no gun laws would help b) he was shot by a good citizen with a gun and c) he was an atheist and antifa-- so completely not their tribe! No sirreee, he might be a white man but has nothing to do with the gun lovers-- well except he seemed quite proud of his rifle and had pictures of it on Facebook.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:50 PM on November 5, 2017


he was an atheist and antifa-- so completely not their tribe

Is this sourced, or is it just channers and Russian trolls making shit up to get us to kill each other again?
posted by schadenfrau at 4:56 PM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sorry if this is asked and answered, but - are the victims black or white?
posted by yhbc at 4:56 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


The church is predominantly white.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:00 PM on November 5, 2017


Is this sourced, or is it just channers and Russian trolls making shit up to get us to kill each other again?

There are (no doubt photoshopped) pictures and a couple of links that I did not want to click on. Just go to the Devin Patrick Kelley twitter feed. It's all over the place. One big "proof" is he was all dressed in black.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:02 PM on November 5, 2017


Was it a fascist church? I mean, the antifa thing doesn't even make any sense. It's cargo-cult argument, they don't even know what words mean, they're just putting them together however the fuck.
posted by ctmf at 5:04 PM on November 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


It's going to be a day or two before details are known. Can we please not be like all the people and places we criticize for jumping to conclusions and meaningless speculation? Nothing we say right now is going to have a bit of effect. We can wait a while before dealing with the race of the church goers and the religion of the shooter and the like.
posted by Candleman at 5:05 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


And I mean, Kevlar comes in black.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:05 PM on November 5, 2017 [2 favorites]




I cannot even comprehend how much of a fucker you have to be to hear news of a shooting and immediately run to fake a Facebook page to fool people into thinking the perpetrator is one of your enemies.
posted by corb at 5:09 PM on November 5, 2017 [93 favorites]


I think they’ve won the war on reality.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:09 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Wow, we really need regulations on social media pronto because in my opinion that deserves some legal penalty.
posted by adept256 at 5:13 PM on November 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


I believe the minister, at least, is white.

And the"he had it illegally" argument has always been weaksauce. The fact that people break laws has never been a convincing reason not to have them. Certainly it cuts no ice when women point to the fact that abortion happens whether it's legal or not.
posted by emjaybee at 5:17 PM on November 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


I cannot even comprehend how much of a fucker you have to be to hear news of a shooting and immediately run to fake a Facebook page to fool people into thinking the perpetrator is one of your enemies.

Republicans don't even need the Russian GRU now, when they're perpetrating the information war against democracy themselves.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:21 PM on November 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


According to a quick Googly search, Newsweek reported that far right media are reporting the antifa angle, as, you know, the left was supposed to start the civil war this weekend.

I'm not giving them clicks, and it sure sounds ludicrous from here.
posted by allthinky at 5:31 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Republicans don't even need the Russian GRU now, when they're perpetrating the information war against democracy themselves.

Well, we pick on Russia because it's actionable, but actually these fuckers have been at it way, way longer.
posted by Artw at 5:33 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


I said this on Facebook when someone wondered if Republican lawmakers getting shot would influence them at all. (The answer, of course, is no).

The problem with the left is they see shootings as a simple problem with guns and the availability thereof, so if you make guns harder to get or impossible to get, shootings will go down or disappear. (I'm not saying this is incorrect).

The right, as evidenced over and over again, believes mass shootings are a symptom of a sick society that's turned away from god and religion, which is why the first response is always "thoughts and prayers!!!!" And you can't stop the vengeance of a scorned god. You can only rechannel it.

This is why hurricanes hitting Florida is god being mad about gays at Disney World and why a shooting even in a church won't make much of a difference. (And also why a hurricane plowing into a super religious state is just hurricanes happening, man). In their world view (or the world view they're paid to endorse by the National Rifle Association, same difference), you have to solve the societal problem and then the mass shootings will go away and the rest is static in the signal. This of course defies logic but you're not arguing with logic, you're arguing with conviction. It's why banning abortion is fine (kills innocent babies) but also not supporting welfare is fine (because if those people were religious as they should be then their communities would take care of them and if their communities won't take care of them, that says something about them).
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 5:34 PM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Unconvinced they actually see it as a problem at all. They like things this way.
posted by Artw at 5:36 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Google's integration with Twitter is serving to directly channel nonsense about the shooter into Google search results.
posted by zachlipton at 5:41 PM on November 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


The nutjob right has been tweeting how the Antifa revolution didn't happen Saturday because they were too scared to show. No really.
posted by chris24 at 5:43 PM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


Rawstory on Paul Ryan being lambasted on Twitter for saying the community 'needs our prayers', because (ノ°Д°)ノ︵ ┻━┻
posted by fragmede at 5:47 PM on November 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


"All I can say is in Texas at least we have the opportunity to have conceal carry," he explained. "And so ... there's always the opportunity that gunman will be taken out before he has the opportunity to kill very many people."

I read this as Ken Paxton saying that concealed carry increases the chances of a future gunman getting killed in a different mass shooting, thus only one mass shooting occurs where there would otherwise be two. Who knows how many future mass shooters are currently being taken out by all of these recent mass shootings? At least there's that to be thankful for.
posted by Dr. Send at 5:48 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Thanks for the Buzzfeed link, Orange Swan, I'm spreading it around.

Of course I didn't believe the antifa connection for a second. Antifa has become an all purpose boogie man for the Right to beat up on so they can pretend a guy who is anti-fascist would go into a church and just shoot people in cold blood. Which makes zero sense. They used to pretend it was all BLM but this guy most definitely was not Black so that would have been a stretch.

The instagram picture of his semi-automatic labeled "she's a bad bitch" was what made me figure he was probably more NRA than antifa. Do you think he knew it was illegal to own? I only ask because on the most recent Full Frontal Sam Bee said that 99% of the judges failed to inform convicted domestic violence felons that it was illegal for them to buy firearms.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:49 PM on November 5, 2017


The nutjob right has been tweeting how the Antifa revolution didn't happen Saturday because they were too scared to show.

Every time it seems bizarre that they paint their enemies as both murderous all-powerful Red terrors and weak little low-T betas, remember Eco's Eighth Feature of Ur-Fascism:

Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:54 PM on November 5, 2017 [39 favorites]


Obama on twitter: We grieve with all the families in Sutherland Springs harmed by this act of hatred, and we’ll stand with the survivors as they recover... May God also grant all of us the wisdom to ask what concrete steps we can take to reduce the violence and weaponry in our midst.
posted by supercrayon at 6:07 PM on November 5, 2017 [33 favorites]


Ron Howard voiceover: "He won't grant that."
posted by emelenjr at 6:08 PM on November 5, 2017 [14 favorites]


Obama singing Amazing Grace at Charleston two years ago. Just, in case you need a president right now.
posted by adept256 at 6:13 PM on November 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


"All I can say is in Texas at least we have the opportunity to have conceal carry," he explained. "And so ... there's always the opportunity that gunman will be taken out before he has the opportunity to kill very many people."

It's funny; having armed civilians around didn't prevent anyone from getting shot in a Denver Walmart last week. In fact, it made the perpetrator harder to identify.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:21 PM on November 5, 2017 [42 favorites]


Mueller orders Manafort to hand over more financial info before he’ll grant bail (Reuters/Raw Story)
Special Counsel Robert Mueller pushed back on Sunday against Paul Manafort’s efforts to avoid house arrest, arguing that President Donald Trump’s former campaign manager needed to further detail the finances behind his proposed $12 million bail agreement.

In a court memorandum, Mueller and his attorneys argued that the court should only agree to a bail agreement if Manafort fully explains his finances to the court. Prosecutors said his team had not been able to substantiate the value of one of the three properties, as well as several life insurance policies, Manafort wants to pledge for bail.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:26 PM on November 5, 2017 [22 favorites]


May God also grant all of us the wisdom to ask what concrete steps we can take to reduce the violence and weaponry in our midst.

God, if He exists, seems to have other priorities
posted by thelonius at 6:35 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


You've just got to do it. I'm telling you, chief, you've just got to do it."

This is Trump's typical sociopathy. No different from "and when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything."

Of course the problem isn't just that there's a monster named Donald Trump as it is that he sits in the White House to the enthusiastic support of millions who seem permanently blinded to the existential threat he poses to democracy.
posted by xigxag at 6:49 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


It’s a real fucking battle who’s stupider, Trump or his voters.

@markknoller:
Pres Trump asks Japanese auto makers if they could build their cars in the US and not just ship them over.
posted by chris24 at 6:56 PM on November 5, 2017 [61 favorites]


So I'm seeing reliable reports on Twitter that the Texas gunman spent a year in confinement and was dishonorably discharged from the army for assaulting his wife and child. His mother-in-law's mailing address is a PO Box in Sutherland Springs. I'm getting a sinking feeling that this is going to turn out to be a domestic violence situation. And that's a form of terrorism, too.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:56 PM on November 5, 2017 [39 favorites]


It’s a real fucking battle who’s stupider, Trump or his voters.

Clearly his voters.

OBI-WAN: Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?
posted by Justinian at 6:57 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Since Japanese auto makers already build most of their cars in the US, maybe they can just announce "we built a brand new manufacturing plant in city X to employ lots of Americans," point to a picture of their 30-year-old plant there, and figure Trump won't notice.
posted by zachlipton at 7:03 PM on November 5, 2017 [48 favorites]


@mattdpearce: Texas gunman was court-martialed, confined 12 months and kicked out of USAF for assaulting his wife and their child, our DC bureau reports.

Yet another damn example of a mass murderer with a history of domestic violence.
posted by zachlipton at 7:07 PM on November 5, 2017 [46 favorites]


@tomperriello:
Dems, I'm amazed how much higher Dem energy is in red VA areas where we have candidates down-ballot. Contest every office, every zip code!
posted by chris24 at 7:09 PM on November 5, 2017 [35 favorites]


So I'm seeing reliable reports on Twitter that the Texas gunman spent a year in confinement and was dishonorably discharged from the army for assaulting his wife and child.
This is my surprised face. -__-
posted by xyzzy at 7:09 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Manafort seems like such an obvious flight risk to me, I can't believe they're considering bail for him at all. Like the U.S. properties he's offering would be any use to him anyway after he fucks off to Moscow.
posted by rifflesby at 7:10 PM on November 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


domestic violence conviction registry, mandatory element of background check - even at gun shows, YUUUUGE penalties for sellers - legit or black-market. like significant minimum sentencing. more than, say my friend mark, who got popped with a baggie of ditch weed in 1995. five years? yeah. seems right.
posted by j_curiouser at 7:12 PM on November 5, 2017 [10 favorites]


Donald Trump, the man who thinks that "visa lottery" is akin to a scratch-off ticket, the man who thinks that "clean coal" means they wash it after they dig it out of the ground, doesn't understand that Japanese car makers have factories in the US? I'm afraid I just can't bring myself to even act surprised.
posted by DoctorFedora at 7:14 PM on November 5, 2017 [11 favorites]


Oh for fuck's sake. He wasn't dishonorably discharged. He had a bad conduct discharge,:
Kelley was discharged from the Air Force in 2014, according to Defense Department records. Kelley was court-martialed in November 2012 for assaulting his wife and their child. A judge sentenced him with a bad-conduct discharge, 12 months confinement, and two reductions in rank to basic airman, according to an appeals court decision in 2013 that affirmed the decision against Kelley.
Apparently, if you're dishonorably discharged, you can't buy a gun, but with a bad conduct discharge, you can. Even if you spent a year in jail for domestic violence. What kind of bullshit is that?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:15 PM on November 5, 2017 [79 favorites]


domestic violence conviction registry, mandatory element of background check - even at gun shows, YUUUUGE penalties for sellers

Mandatory liability insurance for owners and mandatory sentencing doubled if a crime committed uninsured. Designing effective gun control laws is easy. Breaking the Republican gun lobby is the problem.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:16 PM on November 5, 2017 [30 favorites]


Lexington Herald-Leader:
Gov. Matt Bevin, making his first public comments on a sexual harassment scandal that has rocked the state House of Representatives, called Saturday for “the immediate resignation of every individual who has settled a sexual harassment case, who is a party to trying to hide this type of behavior.”

Bevin made the public statement after Republican Rep. C. Wesley Morgan of Richmond had called Saturday for the resignation of Kentucky House Speaker Jeff Hoover, accusing him and party leaders of concealing sexual harassment allegations against Hoover and three other Republican legislators.

Also Saturday afternoon, other members of House leadership announced that they are launching an independent investigation of the allegations.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:19 PM on November 5, 2017 [26 favorites]


Every time it seems bizarre that they paint their enemies as both murderous all-powerful Red terrors and weak little low-T betas, remember Eco's Eighth Feature of Ur-Fascism:

I spent this evening with friends, first in a local cinema watching The Death of Stalin (which is as good as people say) and then in a pub talking through what we'd just seen. One of our number related an essay she'd read - and if anyone can identify it, please do - which pinned much of our current politics on the fall of the Soviet Union and the subsequent disappearance of the Obvious Enemy.

The right wing (this essay said) was entirely based on fighting the enemy. The left wing could point to how it would benefit people in concrete ways - better education, justice, health, etc - but the right was all about protecting you from the hostile other. Once Communism wasn't a thing, the right had nothing. None of its ideas actually benefited the mass of its constituents. And so, it had to create enemies to motivate its base, which meant demonising domestic factors - reproductive rights, feminism, racial equality and so on. While there was an obvious external enemy, it was possible to have a degree of bipartisan politics because left and right could agree bad things about the obvious other and work towards strengthening ideas and ideals that countered those. Once the enemy was internal, that fell apart.

Which is why, I think, the enemies the right identify are simultaneously too strong and too weak : they don't exist, and thus can morph to fit the argument of the hour. The enemies of the left - poverty, sickness, ignorance, despair, inequality, injustice - can too easily be traduced to bolster any of the virtual monsters that the right conjure up. Bipartisanship is impossible when basic concepts are torn apart like this. It's not that great an idea, but it's a decent enough canary.

To fix this? My dream is a return to a clear and fundamental identification of the true enemies of progress, a restatement of the things that our energy and intellect should be engaged in defeating, and a stark narrative of how that will make people's lives better. Enemies are useful, but the great enemy of our 20th century went away and the right realised this quicker than we did. Which is why they're getting away with murder. Yet we won't do ourselves much of a service if we decide that our own internal enemies are this or that class, a particular slice of voters or 'X is in the tank for 45, we must hate them for it'.
posted by Devonian at 7:21 PM on November 5, 2017 [41 favorites]


Oh, sorry, also meant to include this story from Politico:
Six women who work in Florida’s Capitol say the state Senate’s powerful budget chairman, Republican gubernatorial candidate Jack Latvala, has inappropriately touched them without their consent or uttered demeaning remarks about their bodies.
From the story, he sounds like a real charmer.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:21 PM on November 5, 2017 [9 favorites]


Apparently, if you're dishonorably discharged, you can't buy a gun, but with a bad conduct discharge, you can. Even if you spent a year in jail for domestic violence. What kind of bullshit is that?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious


epony-horrible
posted by j_curiouser at 7:23 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Mega thread: The Republican tax bill looks like it was written by Donald Trump’s accountants and tax lawyers, and I’m not even joking.

tl;dr: Trump-org is all passthroughs, carveouts for real estate developers for SALT deduction and like kind exchanges, and obviously the estate repeal. Trump would save billions.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:28 PM on November 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


it had to create enemies to motivate its base, which meant demonising domestic factors - reproductive rights, feminism, racial equality and so on.

yes. the war on drugs black people. iran-contra. cia in nicaragua.

i used to fly a lot and read dumb spy thrillers. even shitty novelists didn't know where to turn after the berlin wall fell. tom clancy turned TWOD into a massive military/cia joint venture. so did reagan.
posted by j_curiouser at 7:32 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Illinois statehouse is also having a meltdown over sexual harassment. Several of the women who've stepped forward and named names have done so at considerable professional risk.

One of the key points from the Illinois allegations has been that an inordinate amount of harassment is suffered by lobbyists. While staffers and colleagues receive some harassment from male legislators, they really go after female lobbyists, who need to stay on legislators' good sides to get their bills passed and who can have their careers tanked by one powerful legislator blackballing them. Some of the women who have come forward with stories of harassment have been lobbyists for the Sierra Club, for foster children, for crime victims, and -- by far the most appalling -- a woman who founded a "Mothers against Sexual Violence against Children" (not its name, I forget the actual name) group after her 11-year-old daughter was raped and was lobbying for changes to the law that would make giving a child alcohol (and then raping her) an aggravating factor, and to provide better legal support for child victims, and the member sponsoring her bill took it on after finding out she was a single mother, constantly texted her late at night with sex talk, and threatened to drop her bill when she asked him to stop. HE SEXUALLY HARASSED A WOMAN TRYING TO PASS LAWS TO PROTECT CHILD RAPE VICTIMS. His initial response was that she was probably only making accusations because she was mad her bill hadn't passed yet. Then she brought receipts and released the harassing messages, hundreds of them. (He has lost his leadership role in the caucus and is being pressed to resign, although he's so damn sure he did nothing wrong it may take lawsuits before he'll quit.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:42 PM on November 5, 2017 [109 favorites]


Tierney Sneed points out what's missing in the Papadopoulos filings: he's messaging various people he thinks are part of the Russian government all the time, but the timeline we have so far stops cold on July 22, 2016, the day Wikileaks published the stolen DNC emails. That doesn't seem like a coincidence. So the question is what does Mueller know about what Papadopoulos said and did after the emails came out? And how much cake will we all be eating when we find out.
posted by zachlipton at 7:51 PM on November 5, 2017 [33 favorites]


"The right wing (this essay said) was entirely based on fighting the enemy."
Humanity is almost entirely based on fighting "the enemy". We're almost hardwired for it. We define ourselves as much by what we are not just as much as we define ourselves by what we are.

We aspire to be 'better' - but better than what?

We 'other' incessantly. If we don't actually have an 'enemy' to define ourselves against, we create one. At best, we dream of 'devils', 'demons', 'aliens', or even some past aspect of ourselves as enemies in order to create our current definition; at worst, we point at 'them', 'those people', or manufacture some group of "not-us-es" to play the part.

And when we pat ourselves on the back for not doing that, we fail to realise that what we're actually doing is settling down to inhabit a broad land between those two extremes. A land where, on the one hand, we create artificial structures to do some of our dirty work for us - and, on the other hand, be our convenient enemies that we can aspire to tear down if necessary. Political parties. Corporations.

Community websites…
posted by Pinback at 7:54 PM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


I can't recall if I found this in one of these threads or not, can't recall, but what the hell:
Robert Mueller jack-o-lantern keeps eye on Paul Manafort's NYC townhouse
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:55 PM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


Holy shitballs, Eyebrows. I clicked your link, scanned a bit, found the first few actual quotations from this chode and literally made a D:< face and reflexively hit the X on the tab.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:57 PM on November 5, 2017


"I clicked your link, scanned a bit, found the first few actual quotations from this chode and literally made a D:< face and reflexively hit the X on the tab."

Yeah, I picked a summary link but if you dig into it and read the released sext messages, it's way worse. And I really admire the lobbyist for coming forward, naming names, releasing the messages, and testifying in front of the legislature, since she is presently running for office and the messages don't paint her in the best light (she's trying to politely accept/turn aside his come-ons while not pissing him off so he doesn't drop her bill, it's painfully familiar to many women, but it's not a great look for a candidate for office and she will be attacked). Speaking out may very well tank her run for office, and damage her career as a lobbyist. She's been very brave and very straightforward and honest, and faced some pretty intense questioning about the text conversations very calmly. I really admire her for speaking up and standing for other women who may not be able to speak out, particularly as she may face very significant professional consequences for it.

(If it matters, the harassing legislator is a Democrat; the lobbyist is running as a Republican -- in a different part of the state, they're not in direct competition. The guy who holds the seat she's running for is someone I think is a pretty good guy (you may remember him as one of the first openly gay Illinois statehouse members, who proposed to his boyfriend at the Illinois marriage equality bill afterparty!) and has been supportive of the women coming forward so far, so I'm hoping his campaign doesn't pull any bullshit because I really need to believe there are politicians out there doing the right thing.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:16 PM on November 5, 2017 [21 favorites]


I cannot even comprehend how much of a fucker you have to be to hear news of a shooting and immediately run to fake a Facebook page to fool people into thinking the perpetrator is one of your enemies.

this is the new normal, and it's been progressing to this ever since the end of the Fairness Doctrine. it's shitty, but not surprising in the least. remember when Chris Kobach said that we'll never know if Hillary Clinton won the popular vote? It's all of a piece. It's coming from the Trump administration, from Fox News, from Silicon Valley, and now from Russian state-sponsored troll farms.

that Vox article about "America's epistemic crisis" raised a serious issue. It's not going to go away even if the Mueller investigation ends with impeachment and removal from office. Everyone now has the option of believing whatever version of reality they find most comforting.

I don't know what fixes this. You can't have a functioning democracy when the voters can't agree on the basic facts of reality. Bringing back the Fairness Doctrine would help, but I don't know if that has a chance in hell. An end to partisan gerrymandering would also help.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 8:33 PM on November 5, 2017 [54 favorites]


One big "proof" is he was all dressed in black.

Like all the hard-right neo-Nazis in Charlottesville, in the same tactical gear in fact.

Is there even a single example of an Antifa type assaulting anyone who is not a far-right rally brawler (like members of the National Socialist Movement or the Proud Boys)? I'm unaware of any.

I think this is a useful question to pose to anyone who raises the Antifa spectre, because there are scores of people killed, and hundreds injured by hard right extremists, plus dozens of bombs and failed bomb plots. 2 killed in Portland, the army lieutenant stabbed in Maryland, 3 shot and one killed in Olathe, Kansas, Lane Davis in Samish WA killing his dad, the Comet Pizza shooter, the pipe bomb left at the Asheville airport a month ago, the AtomWaffen killings and failed bomb plot, etc. etc.
posted by msalt at 8:51 PM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


The only sources for the MSNBC story are anonymous ones "familiar with the investigation", so this may or may not mean another round of Monday morning indictments.

I want "Mueller Mondays" to become a thing, with new indictments or plea deals every week. The Friday evening news dump is about avoiding news coverage; Mueller does better with the opposite, driving the week's news coverage by seizing it before noon at the start of every work week.
posted by msalt at 8:55 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]




He... just dumped the whole box in? I mean... wut? why?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 9:01 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Dear Japan:

We're so sorry our idjit of a president killed your nice fish.

Your friend,
US of A
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:05 PM on November 5, 2017 [17 favorites]


VA gov update: Emerson poll has Northam up 49-46. RCP average is Northam +2.0.

Decision Desk rates the race Tossup.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:12 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


I hope the fish are okay... Poor little fish. :(
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 9:14 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


John Lurie:
  Replying to @realDonaldTrump
  Ask Japanese leaders what they do about gun violence.
posted by gwint at 9:18 PM on November 5, 2017 [13 favorites]


The pool report says: "The two leaders then leaned out and began throwing spoonfuls of the food into the water, before eventually turning over the bowls and dumping the rest out."

I do have a photo of the fish food dumping (and a quad-pack of photos), though I really want video. Everyone looks quite surprised at his decision to just toss it in there.

If the pool report is accurate, how did this work exactly? Did Trump dump the whole box in and then Abe figured he had to do it too in order to be polite? I have to know.
posted by zachlipton at 9:23 PM on November 5, 2017 [6 favorites]


Everyone looks quite surprised at his decision to just toss it in there.

You can see Tillerson in the background thinking, "what a fucking moron."
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:27 PM on November 5, 2017 [8 favorites]


The more I hear about Weinstein and Ratner and Spacey these last few days, the angrier it makes me that the many, many credible accusations against Trump were so handily dismissed and buried. As much as it warms my heart to see brave women and men stand up and speak out and bring down their abusers, we all have to go to bed every night and wake up every morning knowing that America made one of the worst abusers, one of the very worst of all of us, the goddamn President. Our fucking President. And they have to see his smug shitty face and hear his sneery shitty voice every goddamn day. Imagine how that feels to the women (and probably men too) that he's abused and assaulted and in many cases bragged about later, that they have to live in a country where other abusers are being taken down every day, right now, but theirs is in the goddamn White House and, all of the terrible things he's said and done to them, and then about them, none of it matters enough to bring him down.

If I could write the script for 2018, I'd write Trump out of office in humiliation and disgrace, but not because of treason or collusion or money laundering. I'd save all that evidence of course and use it to tar everyone even remotely related to this administration, but Trump? I want to see him taken down by Ninni Laaksonen, and Jessica Drake, and Karena Virginia, and Cathy Heller, and Summer Zervos, and the dozen other women that he's groped and assaulted and humiliated and then called liars, and had his attorneys call them liars, and sent fucking Sarah Huckabee Sanders to stand out in front of the WH Press Corps to call them liars. Those women deserve the same justice and vindication that the victims of all these other powerful men are getting right now, they deserve it just as much if not more so, and I'm afraid they're probably never going to get it, and I can't imagine anything more heartbreaking and frustrating for them.

I don't want to see Trump taken down as a treasonous conspirator anymore, or as a lying politician, or as a failed businessman, even though he is all of those things. I want to see him dragged down and disgraced as just another rich old white man who thought his name and his money meant he could get away with sexual assault, but who got rudely disabused of that notion because it's goddamn fucking 2017 and we are heartily fucking sick. and. tired. of. that. shit.

posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 9:28 PM on November 5, 2017 [122 favorites]


I think this is a useful question to pose to anyone who raises the Antifa spectre, because there are scores of people killed, and hundreds injured by hard right extremists, plus dozens of bombs and failed bomb plots.

White American men are a bigger domestic terrorist threat than Muslim foreigners

The link includes a chart breaking down domestic terror incidents by type (right wing/islamist/left wing.) You will never guess who commits most of the acts by far.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:32 PM on November 5, 2017 [49 favorites]


I like to imagine what America would be like if every five or six weeks, a bridge collapsed, killing twenty or thirty people, and it were considered fully acceptable for politicians’ responses to boil down to “thoughts and prayers, thoughts and prayers”

I'm pretty sure this is coming
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:43 PM on November 5, 2017 [40 favorites]


Now here's an interesting factoid: Out of the 16 closest House races in 2016, three of them didn't have any money spent by the DCCC, the NRCC, or any of the big superPACs. Nobody really knows what the tight races will be, I guess.

Probably worthwhile if the DCCC game like $2K to EVERY campaign, and then targeted for the rest of the money.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:50 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


If it's any consolation to folks, dumping a handful of koi food into a pond won't harm them. They'll just be less hungry for a little while (which may also help them with winter on its way).
posted by DoctorFedora at 9:59 PM on November 5, 2017 [5 favorites]


domestic violence conviction registry, mandatory element of background check -

Honestly a real problem is that the cops are straight up uninterested in enforcing already existing laws when it comes to guns and DV.

I had a restraining order against my ex husband, with a finding of fact that he had, in fact, abused me. Per the law, his guns were supposed to be removed from him by the police and he was not supposed to carry a gun for any company that engaged in interstate commerce.

I called the police and gave him the location of his guns, and...nothing. Despite the law saying he needed to surrender them and the police needed to take them. The police just weren’t going to enforce an order like that over something so /slight/ as mere domestic violence!

And for this fucker - even misdemeanor DV counts as barring firearm ownership per the Lautenberg Act. But yet somehow, it didn’t. Why? Why are police and courts unwilling to enforce it?
posted by corb at 10:02 PM on November 5, 2017 [90 favorites]


The instagram picture of his semi-automatic labeled "she's a bad bitch" was what made me figure he was probably more NRA than antifa.

As per the Buzzfeed hoax-debunking article, that pic etc was from one of the fake Facebook accounts.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:07 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


As per the Buzzfeed hoax-debunking article, that pic etc was from one of the fake Facebook accounts.

Ah, thank you. Next time I see my roommate, I'll tell her the mass shooter social media pictures I told her about earlier tonight were in fact fake mass shooter social media pictures because 2017.
posted by EatTheWeek at 10:25 PM on November 5, 2017 [3 favorites]


Trump's having a weird press conference with Abe where he announced "the era of strategic patience is over" as to North Korea. Then he took a question that was supposed to be for Abe to promise that Japan is going to buy a bunch of new US military equipment to shoot down North Korean missiles. Now he's ranting about tariffs and trade with China.

As for the shooting in Texas:
Asked what policies he supports to reduce mass shootings, Trump says, "Mental health is your problem here...very deranged individual."
Trump: "This isn't a guns situation. We could go into it, but it's a little bit soon to go into it."
Trump: "This is a mental health problem at the highest level. It's a very, very sad event...that's the way I view it."
Trump says it's good there was a good guy with a gun present. Otherwise, says the issue here is not a "guns situation," it's mental illness.
Even on mental health, Trump did not suggest a single policy to try to combat mass shootings.
And Trump on Texas shooting, asked if he would support gun control, answers: "This isn't a guns situation."

He looks tired.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 PM on November 5, 2017 [15 favorites]


Yeah he looked tired, they better get some more well done steak with ketchup into him pronto.
posted by Justinian at 10:42 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Weird to see Tillerson on his feet in Asia. No time for napping with that asshole around I guess.
posted by Artw at 10:47 PM on November 5, 2017 [1 favorite]


Also from Full Frontal with Samantha Bee: Close the Boyfriend Loophole and how domestic violence relates to gun violence and mass shootings (released this past Wednesday.)

I told you her show is on it. Unfortunately and heartbreakingly, it's become predictive.
posted by Crystalinne at 10:49 PM on November 5, 2017 [20 favorites]


Say what you will about Cicero and his horse, but at least Rome itself did not vote for the horse.
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:58 PM on November 5, 2017 [4 favorites]


Caligula, not Cicero. Cicero had his problems, but he was not crazy.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:03 PM on November 5, 2017 [27 favorites]


Its late, and I swear to god for five seconds I thought this was a Skyrim reference, not a Rome reference and I got so fucking confused.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:06 PM on November 5, 2017 [7 favorites]


If the pool report is accurate, how did this work exactly? Did Trump dump the whole box in and then Abe figured he had to do it too in order to be polite? I have to know.

Abe shot first dumped the fish food in first. (video)
posted by zachlipton at 12:20 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


This is what I pictured when I heard he dumped in the whole box. We already know he's a klutz with no sophistication. He drives his cart on the green. I imagine a formal Japanese tea ceremony with him as a 10 minute cringe comedy skit.
posted by adept256 at 12:40 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The trump supporters are all up in arms about how Abe dumped the fish food also. That it was just a small amount not the whole box. And how the left will believe anything about trump and take things out of context.

The thing is, they're exactly right. We need to avoid jumping on every little thing we hear because we end up believing, and forwarding and posting, completely false things, and then they get to say "there's fake news on both sides."

It was a carefully planned staged photo op, Trump did exactly what he was supposed to do for once, and there's nothing wrong with dumping 1/2 cup of food into a Koi pond the size of a small lake. There's just no story there at all.

Trump does six actual terrible things every morning before breakfast. Can we focus on the real terrible things?

Even though our fake news is stuff like "Trump is bad at feeding fish" and theirs is stuff like "Hillary Clinton murdered hundreds of people in a pedophile conspiracy", if we keep running with fake stuff we end up looking bad and giving them more ammunition. And the real stuff like "Trump is a serial sexual abuser and a racist international criminal who has committed treason and stolen an election" gets lost in the noise.
posted by mmoncur at 12:52 AM on November 6, 2017 [96 favorites]


Ask Japanese leaders what they do about gun violence.
We should not be emulating Japanese criminal justice norms at all. They have a conviction rate of 99.8% and rely heavily on confessions. Yes, Japanese society is less violent and they have gun and even bladed weapon controls, which is great, but I would never want to get arrested in Japan. Especially if I hadn't committed a crime.
posted by xyzzy at 12:52 AM on November 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


Yeah, Japanese cops are generally friendly and helpful and give the impression that they are actually motivated by the desire to help make society safer, but basically as soon as you're suspected of a crime, there is a chance that you will basically be disappeared for weeks without even being allowed to contact your family members or employer.

Overall, it's largely preferable to the situation in the US (it's hard to even try to imagine a cops-in-the-South-vs.-unarmed-black-man execution on the street happening in Japan) but it's certainly not utopia.
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:06 AM on November 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


We should not be emulating Japanese criminal justice norms at all. They have a conviction rate of 99.8% and rely heavily on confessions. Yes, Japanese society is less violent and they have gun and even bladed weapon controls, which is great, but I would never want to get arrested in Japan. Especially if I hadn't committed a crime.

That sounds nothing like the US justice system at all does it? *cough* plea bargains *cough*.
posted by pharm at 1:11 AM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Fmr FBI agent on CNN says Americans need to have “situational awareness.” So its come to this: we need to b ready to b shot at all the time (Gabriel Sherman, twitter)

Eventually--if not already, in certain corners of the far right--victims in mass shootings will be lauded as heroes. Eventually they will be seen as necessary and acceptable sacrifices in the war to protect the Second Amendment. Eventually they will be championed as martyrs to the cause of gun independence. Eventually they will be praised for watering the tree of freedom with their sacrifice of blood.

Eventually, if not already.
posted by Gordion Knott at 2:15 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Fmr FBI agent on CNN says Americans need to have “situational awareness.”
That must be the New Good News version of 'Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father'

Galatians (Ruger translation).
posted by rc3spencer at 2:33 AM on November 6, 2017






that face Trump makes as he dumps his food though
posted by angrycat at 2:51 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


He said this in Japan. Japan.
"No one, no dictator, no regime, and no nation should underestimate ever American resolve," the president said. "Every once in a while in the past they underestimated us. It was not pleasant for them. Was it? It was not pleasant. We will never yield. Never waiver, and never falter in defense of our people, our freedom, and our great American flag."
posted by chris24 at 4:07 AM on November 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


That sounds nothing like the US justice system at all does it? *cough* plea bargains *cough*.
Oh we've got big problems. But we don't need Trump getting any ideas about making it worse.
posted by xyzzy at 4:12 AM on November 6, 2017


More from that Japan bluster, executed with the usual flair for language:

'...Not merely because we have the best equipment, which we do, and by the way, a lot of it is coming in. You saw the budget. That's a lot different than the past. A lot of beautiful brand new equipment is coming in. And nobody makes it like they make it in the United States. Nobody," Trump told troops in an airplane hangar.'
posted by Myeral at 4:12 AM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


I wonder how many people know someone who died in a mass shooting? I lost a friend in the Va. Tech killings, myself. Are we not a natural interest group? Maybe we could get organized.
posted by thelonius at 4:15 AM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Quid meet Quo.

Bloomberg: Trump Jr. Hinted at Review of Anti-Russia Law, Moscow Lawyer Says
A Russian lawyer who met with President Donald Trump’s oldest son last year says he indicated that a law targeting Russia could be re-examined if his father won the election and asked her for written evidence that illegal proceeds went to Hillary Clinton’s campaign.

The lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, said in a two-and-a-half-hour interview in Moscow that she would tell these and other things to the Senate Judiciary Committee on condition that her answers be made public, something it hasn’t agreed to. She has received scores of questions from the committee, which is investigating possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign. Veselnitskaya said she’s also ready -- if asked -- to testify to Special Counsel Robert Mueller. [...]

Veselnitskaya said she went to New York to show Trump campaign officials that major Democratic donors had evaded U.S. taxes and to lobby against the so-called Magnitsky law that punishes Russian officials for the murder of a Russian tax accountant who accused the Kremlin of corruption.

“Looking ahead, if we come to power, we can return to this issue and think what to do about it,’’ Trump Jr. said of the 2012 law, she recalled. “I understand our side may have messed up, but it’ll take a long time to get to the bottom of it,” he added, according to her.

Veselnitskaya also said Trump Jr. requested financial documents showing that money that allegedly evaded U.S. taxes had gone to Clinton’s campaign. She didn’t have any and described the 20-minute meeting as a failure.
posted by chris24 at 4:24 AM on November 6, 2017 [45 favorites]


VA - GOV: Two new polls:

CNU - Northam up, 51-45
Quinnipiac - Northam up, 51-42

These bring the RCP average to Northam +2.8.

FWIW dept: CNU poll was off 4 points in the 2013 gubernatorial (had Mac +7, real life was +3). In the 2014 Senate race, everyone was way off, but CNU ws the closest (had Warner +7, won by 1).

Might be one or two more polls today. Election Day FPP tonight.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:47 AM on November 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


Just now:

Joe Scarborough: What is going on in Saudi Arabia?

Senator Blumenthal: I'm on it!
posted by Room 641-A at 4:50 AM on November 6, 2017


Trump Jr. Hinted at Review of Anti-Russia Law, Moscow Lawyer Says

Leaning towards Putin warning Trump he better stay in line vs. Putin turning on Trump. But who knows. The joys of having a compromised president.
posted by chris24 at 4:51 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


WP poll has Dem lead on the generic ballot at 51-40, widest since 2006 when Dems retook the House and Senate.

538 average not updated yet; this should put it at about Dems +9, I think.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:52 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


And Junior's lawyer didn't deny it, just no commented. Probably worried the Russians have tapes.
A lawyer for Trump Jr., Alan Futerfas, said the president’s son had no comment about the interview, the first time Veselnitskaya has offered details about what was discussed at Trump Tower in Manhattan. In the past, Trump Jr. has said that he had wasted his time seeing the lawyer because she provided no useful information.
posted by chris24 at 4:54 AM on November 6, 2017


US Is Refusing To Compromise On Health And Climate Issues With Its G7 Allies (Alberto Nardelli, BuzzFeed News)
The Trump administration is blocking all references to climate change, sexual and reproductive rights, and universal health coverage, in the conclusions of a G7 meeting of health ministers taking place in Milan on Sunday and Monday, BuzzFeed News has learned. [...]

The seven countries are negotiating over a draft communique document — the contents of which has been shared with BuzzFeed News — which is due to be agreed on Monday. It notes US demands to strike out all reference to “climate change” and “man-made” weather, and “other disasters.” [...]

To the frustration of negotiators from the other six governments — the UK, Germany, Italy, France, Japan and Canada — as well as the European Union, the US has made its demands late in the day and has set them as red lines.

“As with the rest of the G7 process, the US didn’t engage for months. And, now, just this week, they have erected a wall and came back with extreme positions,” a European negotiator told BuzzFeed News. [...]

US negotiators have also asked to not make reference to sexuality education arguing for the need to “strengthen stable support systems and families” instead. US proposals include a paragraph that, if agreed, would say: “We will help promote programs and educational tools proven to help young people prepare for stable, caring relationships and futures that include healthy, consensual sexual behaviors, free of disease and exploitation, and safe for future childbearing and parenting.”

The US has also slid back on previous agreements regarding gender equality, asking they be referred to as “commitments” instead.

posted by Room 641-A at 4:56 AM on November 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


The woman who flipped off Trump's motorcade? Fired for it.
As the photo circulated online, Briskman decided to tell Akima’s HR department what was happening when she went to work on Monday. By Tuesday, her bosses called her into a meeting and said she had violated the company’s social media policy by using the photo as her profile picture on Twitter and Facebook.

“They said, ‘We’re separating from you,‘” said Briskman. “Basically, you cannot have ‘lewd’ or ‘obscene’ things in your social media. So they were calling flipping him off ‘obscene.’”

Briskman, who worked in marketing and communications at Akima for just over six months, said she emphasized to the executives that she wasn’t on the job when the incident happened and that her social media pages don’t mention her employer. They told her that because Akima was a government contractor, the photo could hurt their business, she said.

Virginia is an employment-at-will state, meaning employers can fire people anytime and for any reason. But Briskman said what’s been particularly infuriating is that a male colleague kept his job after recently posting lewd comments on his Facebook page that featured Akima LLC as his cover photo. She said this colleague was reprimanded for calling someone “a fucking Libtard asshole” on Facebook, but was allowed to delete the post and keep his job.

“How is that any less ‘obscene’ than me flipping off the president?” she asked. “How is that fair?”
posted by chris24 at 4:57 AM on November 6, 2017 [116 favorites]


The lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, said in a two-and-a-half-hour interview in Moscow that she would tell these and other things to the Senate Judiciary Committee on condition that her answers be made public, something it hasn’t agreed to

And then she leaked this anyway!

This is while Trump is on a trip where he publicly announced he might meet with Putin privately. So is this the stick? What’s the carrot? What’s Putin trying to get this time around?

Christ I can’t believe I just wrote that
posted by schadenfrau at 5:07 AM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


The woman who flipped off Trump's motorcade? Fired for it.

Oh man I had been worried about exactly that once that motorcycle lady photo went viral. That poor woman.
posted by winna at 5:08 AM on November 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


The woman who flipped off Trump's motorcade? Fired for it.

Huh, up until now I had no idea who she worked for. Way to go Akima.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:10 AM on November 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


That is incredibly sad for her, however I hope she can leverage some of that viral fame into work elsewhere. Surely there are tons of progressive places that would hire her.
posted by Twain Device at 5:10 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


IANAL but I'm married to an HR executive for a Fortune 50 company. She thinks it would be worthwhile for her to retain a lawyer. At will or not, uneven application of ill-defined social media policy, especially by gender, is a lawsuit/settlement waiting to happen.
posted by chris24 at 5:20 AM on November 6, 2017 [95 favorites]


'Virginia is an employment-at-will state'

I'd never heard of that term before. I think it stinks
posted by Myeral at 5:29 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Aw, I'm up way too early this morning and nobody's been indicted yet?
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:29 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


My last two trips to the US were horrid. 2010 to NYC for work and a little time off, 2013 for my father's memorial in OKC. Both trips had occasions of vile cultural divisiveness. I felt it before I left. I felt it on pretty much every trip back over the last twenty years. I felt it every time I was hosting a client or executive from my employer in whatever country I was working in at the time. I have felt less safe as a transgender woman in the USA over the last two decades than anywhere else I've lived or visited.

If I were there, I can't imagine having a conversation in a random hotel or bar or restaurant or basically any circumstance that I didn't know everyone and where they stood, on this distilled level of hate and anger that has fermented. Just my opinion, but the USA has become the least safe place in the world where you'd normally assume otherwise.

As an aside. I've learned I have a violent streak. I'm not proud, but I've punched a randian American asshole in a bar in Shanghai for his willingness to con and steal and boast about the stupidity of his targets while standing amongst entitled expats. It was a random encounter and his loud claims and subsequent defence that the weak deserved fleecing put me over the edge on that evening. Tried to engage in conversation and ended up in incomprehensible rhetoric and shit from him.

I've also confronted abusive drunk and/or gang assholes on public transport in Melbourne. So, if the circumstances were close and intense enough, I'm pretty sure I'd punch a Nazi. I'm not happy about it, but it's apparently part of who I am.

Probably always been there, but this is partly what's happening in the USA has brought me to. Fuck this timeline.
posted by michswiss at 5:33 AM on November 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


She's in Marketing and Communications... I'd say she's pretty good at it. She got a story in Huffington Post that will surely go viral and do more harm to Akima LLC than if they'd done nothing.
posted by maggiemaggie at 5:35 AM on November 6, 2017 [40 favorites]


Myeral: "'Virginia is an employment-at-will state'

I'd never heard of that term before. I think it stinks
"

It's pretty common, unfortunately.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:37 AM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Typically goes hand-in-hand with "right-to-work" laws, the most ironically-named idea since Disney's "Fast Play" DVDs
posted by middleclasstool at 5:40 AM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


chris24: "And Junior's lawyer didn't deny it, just no commented. Probably worried the Russians have tapes. "

I think the odds that one of the Russians in that meeting was wearing a wire is very, very high.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:43 AM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Chrysostom: thanks.

I was reading how it's supposed to free up businesses to be flexible. The same kind of argument being put forward by UK Brexit supporting politicians who are advocating 'cutting the red tape' of European labour protections.
posted by Myeral at 5:56 AM on November 6, 2017


Politico: Rand Paul being out for a while is not going to make passing tax stuff (or anything else) any easier.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:05 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Makes passing social responsible stuff ever so slightly less impossible, though.

Related: sure seems to be a lot of white on white violence lately, doesn't there? Maybe it's time to send in the feds. They want and need more police protection, you know.
posted by perspicio at 6:12 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


> I think the odds that one of the Russians in that meeting was wearing a wire is very, very high.

My understanding and "knowledge" of stuff like this is entirely based on movies and television, but...wouldn't the Secret Service pat you down (or use some other high-tech method) and probably find a wire if you were wearing one? Or do you only get the full treatment if you're going to actually meet with the President?
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:19 AM on November 6, 2017


> Oh man I had been worried about exactly that once that motorcycle lady photo went viral. That poor woman.

Any time anyone goes viral for any sort of anti-Trump-related activity I worry they're going to get killed.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:21 AM on November 6, 2017 [34 favorites]


'Virginia is an employment-at-will state'

I'd never heard of that term before.


Be very glad you haven't. It's one of the big reasons so much industry moved to southern states—at much lower wages and no unionization. It's why even fast-food workers have to sign a contract that either they or their employer may end their employment "for any or no reason" (although *in theory* it doesn't supersede anti-discrimination laws). Republican state legislators in every state would love to implement at-will and make it the new normal.
posted by Rykey at 6:23 AM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


> I think the odds that one of the Russians in that meeting was wearing a wire is very, very high.

With the Trumps the odds on there having been a full fly-on-the-wall documentary team (with hair/makeup and onsite catering) in the room are non-negligible.
posted by Buntix at 6:24 AM on November 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


If the École Polytechnique massacre had happened in the U.S. it would probably have been forgotten by now.
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:28 AM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


Just to add, the level of hate and vileness is infecting Australia. The place I want to call home. Just look at what’s happening on Manus Island. Look at the denials and obfuscation by Dutton. Look at Turbull’s rejection of Indigenous recommendations to changes to the constitution.

It’s not irredeemable in Australia, yet. It feels close to it in the USA, Nyet.
posted by michswiss at 6:31 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


In more cheerful news, you folks are going to adore the latest TIME Magazine cover.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:32 AM on November 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


Trump: "This is a mental health problem at the highest level. It's a very, very sad event...that's the way I view it."
Trump says it's good there was a good guy with a gun present. Otherwise, says the issue here is not a "guns situation," it's mental illness.
Even on mental health, Trump did not suggest a single policy to try to combat mass shootings
(emphasis mine)

February 28, 2017:

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses (Ali Vitali)
President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:41 AM on November 6, 2017 [69 favorites]


Eventually--if not already, in certain corners of the far right--victims in mass shootings will be lauded as heroes. Eventually they will be seen as necessary and acceptable sacrifices in the war to protect the Second Amendment.

Pretty sure they are zooming past this to blame the victims for irresponsibly gatherring in a public place without taking safety precautions such as more guns and, er, more guns.
posted by Artw at 6:44 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Traumatized again by gun violence in Sutherland Springs (AR-15), America struggles to try and find the common thread between this and other shootings like Las Vegas (AR-15), Orlando (AR-15), San Bernadino (AR-15), Umpqua Community College (AR-15), Aurora (AR-15), and Sandy Hook (AR-15). Hoping and praying, we agonize over whether there is some connection between these killings, some single point on which we could take action to make killings like these less frequent or less devastating.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 7:00 AM on November 6, 2017 [104 favorites]


I googled mass shootings by state, and found this. You can export the data if you want. I didn’t because I saw there were 8 mass shootings in November so far, as of yesterday, and I decided I just...couldn’t.

I would guess, though, that mass shootings are primarily the provenance of states with lax gun laws, and major cities near states with lax gun laws.
posted by schadenfrau at 7:04 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


With the Trumps the odds on there having been a full fly-on-the-wall documentary team (with hair/makeup and onsite catering) in the room are non-negligible.

Keeping Up with the Kollusions.
posted by chris24 at 7:04 AM on November 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


It looks like Rand Paul will be unable to return to Washington for a bit because of his injuries. Any speculation on how this will impact the tax bill moving forward?
posted by mcduff at 7:11 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


This seems a good argument to me. Plays against America First.

@MichaelSLinden
GOP plan gives a bigger tax cut to FOREIGN investors than it does to the bottom 60% of American households. Richest Americans Benefit Most from The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act
posted by chris24 at 7:12 AM on November 6, 2017 [45 favorites]


'Virginia is an employment-at-will state'

I'd never heard of that term before.

Be very glad you haven't. It's one of the big reasons so much industry moved to southern states—at much lower wages and no unionization. It's why even fast-food workers have to sign a contract that either they or their employer may end their employment "for any or no reason" (although *in theory* it doesn't supersede anti-discrimination laws). Republican state legislators in every state would love to implement at-will and make it the new normal.
posted by Rykey at 7:23 AM on 11/6


Arizona is an at-will state (they call it “Right-to-work” which is pretty disingenuous.) All an employer has to say is that your services are no longer needed and you have no recourse. If they fire you that way, then you’re eligible for unemployment, since you lost your job through no fault of your own. However, the requirements for unemployment are getting worse and worse. Eligibility is capped at 26 weeks. The benefit is capped at $240 per week, and it is less if you make below a certain amount. You have to file each week and they want to see your job search records periodically. Decide to use your time off to go to school? If you aren’t looking for a job, no unemployment. They have a lot of ways to cut you loose.
posted by azpenguin at 7:14 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


At-Will <> Right to Work. At Will means your employment can be termed from either side at any time with no reason. Right to Work means you can opt out of union membership.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:17 AM on November 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


> "The same kind of argument being put forward by UK Brexit supporting politicians who are advocating 'cutting the red tape' of European labour protections."

Shortly after I moved to the UK, someone in the writers' group I joined here brought in a story in which someone's boss, seeking to get him fired, hatched a complicated scheme involving planting cocaine in his desk. I asked, "Why couldn't he just fire they guy? What's stopping him?" They stared at me like I was from Mars. "You can't fire someone without cause," they said as if it were obvious. "That would be wrongful termination!"

But some politicians here are SO INTENT on importing the most dystopian policies from the U.S.
posted by kyrademon at 7:23 AM on November 6, 2017 [17 favorites]




Any speculation on how this will impact the tax bill moving forward?

Ugh. No. Too gruesome.

I hope Rand Paul gets to cast all his awful votes. Because if people start to think that violence against members of congress is a good way of moving their political agenda forward, democracy in this country is done.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:29 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Once more, time for The Onion: "No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens."

At this rate they'll have to hire a full-time staffer just to keep updating that article.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:30 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


At-Will <> Right to Work. At Will means your employment can be termed from either side at any time with no reason. Right to Work means you can opt out of union membership.

They are different, but complementary. They go together like mass shootings and domestic violence. Like corporate profits and wage suppression. Like Hollywood tycoons and sexual assault. Like the 21st century and garbage politics.
posted by dis_integration at 7:34 AM on November 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


Steven Rosenfeld / AlterNet : Russian Propaganda on Social Media in 2016 Has Forever Changed How U.S. Candidates Will Campaign
[Pollster John] Zogby’s biggest point was the country has entered a new era of saturation and extremist messaging. A decade ago it would have been all but impossible to create and disseminate this kind of political propaganda, he said.

“You couldn’t,” Zogby said. “Just go back to an era of newspapers and periodicals. You had to buy all those [ads] for starts. And then physically, how much time could you spend [making them]? ..."

Today, self-publishing software means almost anyone, anywhere, can create incendiary political ads and find ways to distribute them online, Zogby pointed out. In their congressional testimony, executives from Facebook, Twitter and Google said these kinds of propagandistic messages were shared millions of times.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:43 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I hope Rand Paul gets to cast all his awful votes. Because if people start to think that violence against members of congress is a good way of moving their political agenda forward, democracy in this country is done.

How is this different than any other time a politican is sick or hospitalized? There's been no evidence so far that this was politically motivated. Paul's attacker is a middle-aged anesthesiologist who lives in the same gated community as Paul. I wouldn't be surprised if this was about hedges.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:44 AM on November 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


Once more, time for The Onion: "No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens."

Dated from 2014. They trot it out every time something like this regularly happens.
posted by Melismata at 7:46 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]




Rand Paul seems exactly like the kind of guy who keeps letting his dog shit in your yard
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:01 AM on November 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


That's the cornfield where Steve King and Don Jr. go peasant hunting.
posted by perspicio at 8:01 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


How is this different than any other time a politican is sick or hospitalized?

Because it was violence rather than natural causes?
posted by OnceUponATime at 8:01 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


"No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens."

Lately I've been thinking this Onion entry could be re-written as "No Way To Prevent This Except More Guns For Conservative White Men," Say Republican Politicians Who Otherwise Claim They Have The Ability to Mold The World However They See Fit Because They Were Hand-Picked By God As The Wisest And Best Among Us And Therefore Have -- and Deserve -- Unlimited Power.

But that's too long a headline, and it makes me want to punch holes in drywall with my head and hands as I shout in impotent rage because it's really just a rewording of what Republican legislators and chief executives actually think and say about themselves and about these events.
posted by lord_wolf at 8:05 AM on November 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Rand Paul => There's no reason to think it was someone trying to effect a political cause, though. I'd treat this the same way I'd treat discussion of McCain's brain tumor and whatever is going on with Wicker.

We should never HOPE for someone to be hurt, but if they are, I think discussion of the political impact is fair.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:06 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


My guess has been running the riding mower before 8am.
posted by notyou at 8:06 AM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Rust Moranis: Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.

This shouldn't be surprising, when this is coming from the same folks who complain that immigrants are both too lazy and just taking all those sweet "entitlements*" from the hard working white Christians** and they are stealing all our jobs.

* I fucking hate the word "entitlements" now, and every time I hear someone say that I want to shout "yeah, people are entitled to that like they're entitled to clean air." (And then some utter asshole says 'Modern air is a little too clean for optimum health' and I black out from rage, because burning it all down would only make that asshole happy that the air quality has decreased.)

** Not all white Christians, but it seems like the anti-immigration folks are often white and vocally Christian.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:09 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


My guess has been running the riding mower before 8am.

My guess is that he's an insufferable asshole who lives in a gated community with other insufferable assholes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:10 AM on November 6, 2017 [46 favorites]


I've never know a libertarian to be anything other than extremely annoying. On the other hand, i've never known a libertarian not to talk constantly and use their politics as an excuse for their annoying behavior, so it could go either way.
posted by Artw at 8:11 AM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


hatched a complicated scheme involving planting cocaine in his desk.

Wow - that seems a bit extreme to say the least. There are still some protections for non gig economy workers here in the UK (especially if they're in one of the few remaining strong unions like the RMT) but it is usually possible for an employer to 'manage someone out' without resorting to such drastic measures
posted by Myeral at 8:12 AM on November 6, 2017


the same folks who complain that immigrants are both too lazy and just taking all those sweet "entitlements*" from the hard working white Christians** and they are stealing all our jobs.

And who also characterize liberals as jobless losers while simultaneously denigrating them as educated, urban elites.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:12 AM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.

Wasn't this covered pretty comprehensively in The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism?
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:13 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


I’m still having trouble imagining how a middle aged anesthesiologist could tackle an otherwise healthy and fit adult male with enough force to break five ribs, resulting in lung contusions.

I mean obviously it happened, but like...what? Was the anesthesiologist previously an NFL tackle?
posted by schadenfrau at 8:14 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sounded like a baseball bat to me.
posted by Dashy at 8:15 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Rand Paul is 54.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:15 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


So would you rather take on 100 duck sized Rand Pauls or one Rand Paul sized duck?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:16 AM on November 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


I don't believe it. If it had been a legitimate assault, the superior Libertarian Übermensch body has ways of shutting the whole thing down.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:17 AM on November 6, 2017 [73 favorites]


Here's the updated Onion "No way to prevent this..." article (link above took me to a 2014 variant).
posted by MattWPBS at 8:17 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


> "Wow - that seems a bit extreme to say the least."

It was thriller-type story where he needed to get the guy fired RIGHT AWAY before he got any closer to finding out about THE SECRET BAD THING.
posted by kyrademon at 8:20 AM on November 6, 2017


My corollary guess has been that the neighbor tackled Paul back onto the offending riding mower, and hence the rib injuries, etc.
posted by notyou at 8:22 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Darryl Fears (as does Rust), WaPo: Powerful lawmaker wants to ‘invalidate’ the Endangered Species Act. He’s getting close.

Rep. Rob Bishop (R-Utah) recently shepherded five bills out of the Natural Resources Committee he chairs that would dismantle the law piece by piece.

Measures include: requiring the government to place the economic value of a species and the cost of saving it above any scientific or ecological opinion, requiring U.S. Fish and Wildlife to consider data from private sources as superior in validity to federal data, and the removal of the ability of citizens and conservation groups to sue the government for inadequate protection of species.

Bishop's had a nice life in a world with a biosphere and will likely not live long enough to see the extinction of every animal larger than a breadbox. I hope the soil rejects his carcass.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:22 AM on November 6, 2017 [68 favorites]


Sounded like a baseball bat to me.

Honestly that’s what I thought too, but I don’t think they’d be prosecuting that as a misdemeanor.

bodies are fragile

Rand Paul is 54


Memento mori, I guess. I think I’m not in the habit of thinking of 54 year old dudes as fragile. the ones I used to know all played squash and shit in ways that managed to make them into contact sports, but, well. Anecdata.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:25 AM on November 6, 2017


Is Tom Cotton the future of Trumpism? (Jeffrey Toobin for The New Yorker)
posted by box at 8:25 AM on November 6, 2017


Sounded like a baseball bat to me
Wouldn't the guy have been charged with aggravated assault, or something else more serious like that, had he used a weapon?
posted by thelonius at 8:26 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump readies executive order to unravel Obamacare's individual mandate.

I'd love to know where he gets the authority to do that absent Congress passing legislation.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:27 AM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Will that get sued into oblivion like all the others?

Goddammit I hate this asshole so much. I am discovering depths of hatred I didn’t know I had. I don’t like it.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:28 AM on November 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


I’ve known healthy 20-something people to break ribs just from coughing too hard. Ribs are not SO hard to break, in the grand scheme of things.
posted by Andrhia at 8:29 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


chris24: The lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, said in a two-and-a-half-hour interview in Moscow that she would tell these and other things to the Senate Judiciary Committee on condition that her answers be made public, something it hasn’t agreed to.

schadenfrau: And then she leaked this anyway!

I'm skeptical of leaks like this, especially from Russia and Russian-aligned individuals.

schadenfrau: This is while Trump is on a trip where he publicly announced he might meet with Putin privately. So is this the stick? What’s the carrot? What’s Putin trying to get this time around?

chris24: Veselnitskaya said she went to New York to show Trump campaign officials that major Democratic donors had evaded U.S. taxes and to lobby against the so-called Magnitsky law that punishes Russian officials for the murder of a Russian tax accountant who accused the Kremlin of corruption.

And that is why I'm skeptical of leaks. Is the "major Democratic donor tax evasion" a new angle, or one that hasn't been pushed or picked up strongly before?

Remember, Putin's operatives aren't pushing for Trump to succeed, they're instigating chaos so that Russia can expand its influence and dominance. They would have been OK if Trump lost, because they had already increased the partisan and religious divide in the US. Trump's win was a huge bonus, but not particularly the end goal. (After the fact, Putin may have wanted a Russia-US reset with Trump, but it's easy to say "let's start again" to a compromised president.)
posted by filthy light thief at 8:32 AM on November 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


True story: I broke a rib once from having a cabbage thrown at me. Granted it was a dense and heavy cabbage, and an overhand lob, but if a vegetable can break a rib I expect being tackled onto a lawnmower could easily break 4 or 5.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:34 AM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Loony left further update ahaha my party was in the New Yorker

Write in Marc Fliedner for manhattan DA I beg you
posted by The Whelk at 8:34 AM on November 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


Perfect timing!

I'd love to know where he gets the authority to do that absent Congress passing legislation.

Trump's Government of One (Johnathan Swan, Axios)
In late June, President Trump hosted a group of Native American tribal leaders at the White House and urged them to "just do it" and extract whatever they want from the land they control.

The exchange turned out to be an unusually vivid window into the almost kingly power that Trump sees himself as holding, and which he has begun describing with increasing bluntness. The scene was recounted by a source in the room and confirmed by another. The White House didn't dispute the story.

The chiefs explained to Trump that there were regulatory barriers preventing them from getting at their energy. Trump replied: "But now it's me. The government's different now. Obama's gone; and we're doing things differently here."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:35 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's been a couple of hours, so we've got THREE more VA Gov polls!

Fox: Northam 48-43
Monmouth: Northam 47-45
Polling Company [R]: Northam 47-46

RCP is Northam +3.3, but they haven't put the Monmouth in yet. I think with it included, it's about +3.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:38 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'll go to my grave not understanding the motives of people who not only don't give a shit about the environment but actively want to ruin it until there's nothing left. I guess it's some combination of a Christian-derived belief that God gave humans permission to do whatever we want "over all the earth" and will therefore somehow make sure his Chosen Ones pull through no matter what, greed, short-sightedness (although most of them have children, grandchildren, etc., so I don't know how that works), denial (oh, right), the belief that the Rapture is right around the corner so it doesn't matter if the entire planet is covered in a layer of coal dust and/or LOL LIBERAL TEARS.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:38 AM on November 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


chris24: Briskman, who worked in marketing and communications at Akima for just over six months, said she emphasized to the executives that she wasn’t on the job when the incident happened and that her social media pages don’t mention her employer. They told her that because Akima was a government contractor, the photo could hurt their business, she said.

Juli Briskman is in the good company of Jemele Hill. ESPN, like Akima, sided with appeasing the deplorable president instead of recognizing that an individual can be separated from their employer and can speak their mind.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on November 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


100 duck sized Rand Pauls

Imagine how fragile their bones would be
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:42 AM on November 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


If they have actual dirt on Dems they can release that independently, and launder it through whatever organizations are willing to lap it up. They don’t need to wrap it in a story with far worse implications for Trump. This wasn’t meant to rattle Dems.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:43 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


RCP is Northam +3.3, but they haven't put the Monmouth in yet. I think with it included, it's about +3.

This is a very losable race for Northam. Per Dave Wasserman:
RCP avg/result in off-year VA:

'09: McDonnell (R) +13.4/+17.5
'13: McAuliffe (D) +6.7/+2.5
'14: Warner (D) +9.7/+0.8

Northam (D): +2.8/??
posted by zombieflanders at 8:43 AM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


#CabbageControlNow
posted by delfin at 8:43 AM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


> In late June, President Trump hosted a group of Native American tribal leaders at the White House and urged them to "just do it" and extract whatever they want from the land they control.

If he's telling Native American tribal leaders that, imagine what he's telling rich, old, white male billionaires.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:43 AM on November 6, 2017 [71 favorites]


Hey gang, it's threadbloat o'clock! That's when the big hand is on the "Please keep the derails to an absolute minimum" and the little hand is on the "Please check to see that links have not already been posted upthread."
posted by Rykey at 8:45 AM on November 6, 2017 [26 favorites]


Citing Stafford, The Associated Press reports that displaced fractures such as the ones the senator suffered "can lead to life-threatening injuries."

This is such a stretch to frame it this way. Rib fractures are incredibly common and come in a lot of flavors, I mean, people fracture ribs just from coughing sometimes, or falling onto the sidewalk from standing. I've also seen people who had rib fractures they didn't even know about and have no idea how they happened. (On preview, cabbages also apparently!) It's rare for this injury to actually be even remotely life threatening, the only arguable way I can remember having actually seen this while working in the hospital is if a broken rib lacerates your spleen and you bleed a lot, but I've only seen that specific outcome happen rarely, and only with much higher force trauma like motor vehicle accidents, not your neighbor tackling you. Also, that's an injury that can be readily diagnosed and treated in the vast majority of cases including every single one I can recall having seen.

I'm not saying that it's great or okay that he got assaulted but to me this definitely sounds like a case of making his injuries sound substantially more severe than they probably are. Unless you just smashed your motorcycle into an embankment at 60 mph, your rib fractures are probably only life threatening in the way that like, getting the flu or getting a toenail infection can be life threatening (i.e. technically possible but rare and happens under a specific set of unlikely circumstances.) (IAAP, at a level 1 trauma center)
posted by robotdevil at 8:53 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Rust Moranis: "True story: I broke a rib once from having a cabbage thrown at me."

Look, I said I was sorry, I don't know what you want from me.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:54 AM on November 6, 2017 [48 favorites]


you can even break a rib just by saying the wrong words! In my case, they were "I don't believe you are a kick boxer, can you prove it?"
posted by LegallyBread at 9:07 AM on November 6, 2017 [52 favorites]


Rust Moranis: "True story: I broke a rib once from having a cabbage thrown at me."

Look, I said I was sorry, I don't know what you want from me.



*Beginning to think we may have to float the hypothesis that Rust Moranis and Chrysostom are the same MeFite...
posted by darkstar at 9:09 AM on November 6, 2017


This is a very losable race for Northam.

Well, sure! It's like a 3-ish point lead, and Virginia doesn't have a history of great polling. Gillespie winning is absolutely possible. Maybe like a 35-40% chance, which is not outlandish.

But I think it's a classic portrait of Dem and GOP mindsets that Northam has led the whole race, is STILL leading, and Dems are ready to put their head in a noose. Meanwhile Republicans are already measuring for new drapes in the governor's office.

I mean, you want to be ahead three points, not behind three points. It's okay to feel a teensy bit good about the situation.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:16 AM on November 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


That's how it works when you always have to get over the margin of fuckery to win.
posted by Artw at 9:34 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Republicans Are Laser-Targeting Enemies in Their Tax Bill
It is truly astounding how targeted this tax bill is. It favors rich investors, who mostly vote Republican. It punishes big, urban states that mostly vote Democratic. It hurts universities, which are also filled with Democrats. And it specifically harms students, who mostly wouldn’t be caught dead ever voting for a Republican.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:42 AM on November 6, 2017 [68 favorites]


I looked for this in this thread and the last catch-all politics thread, but didn't see it (although we seem to discuss cake a lot wrt Mueller indictments so I might've missed it):

NewScientist.com: How learning to share cakes could help stop unfair US elections

"The method to fairly split a cake between two people is tried, tested, and mathematically proven. One person gets to cut the cake and the other gets to choose which slice they get.


...

With the new approach, one political party gets to draw an electoral map that divides the state into the agreed number of districts. The second political party then chooses one district to freeze so that no more changes can be made to it by either side. They then get to redraw the rest of the map.

Once the new map is complete, the first political party freezes one of the new districts so that no further changes can be made to it, and is allowed to redraw the rest of the map again. This process goes back and forth until every district within the state is frozen. In Pennsylvania, for example, this would require 17 cycles as there are 18 districts."

posted by bluecore at 9:52 AM on November 6, 2017 [80 favorites]


Republicans Are Laser-Targeting Enemies in Their Tax Bill

Remember how much the Republicans whined about the IRS trying to enforce the law against certain nonprofits not engaging in political advocacy?

(You know, the law many so-called "Tea Party" groups probably violated, and whose enforcement was also targeted against liberal groups?)
posted by Gelatin at 9:55 AM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


GovTrack has an interesting interview:
“The problem with government of the people, by the people and for the people,” quipped comedian David Javerbaum, “is the people.”

Jason Brennan would agree. The Georgetown University professor of ethics and public policy penned a provocative book in 2016 titled Against Democracy. And he contends that events and outcomes in America since his original summer 2016 publication have only vindicated his original thesis.

Brennan isn’t arguing in favor of replacing democracy with any of the familiar alternatives, such as totalitarianism, benevolent dictatorship, or a parliamentary system. Instead, he proposes a new method where everyone still votes, and in fact potentially even more people vote than today. But the winner would not be chosen by majority rule, or the Electoral College in the case of the presidency.

Instead the winner would be chosen based on statistically weighting the election results in favor of candidates, policies, and positions supported by more politically well-informed voters — — whatever that might mean. This might result in a different outcome than that based solely on the majority of votes, if the majority of votes went for a less informed choice.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:01 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


more politically well-informed voters — — whatever that might mean

This is where the issue lies, who determines that and how.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:06 AM on November 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


Yea, given the performance of algorithms in 2016 and 2017, let's not turn over the democratic process to Silicon Valley's definition of "more politically well-informed voters" mmmkay?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:06 AM on November 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


bluecore: "With the new approach, one political party gets to draw an electoral map that divides the state into the agreed number of districts. The second political party then chooses one district to freeze so that no more changes can be made to it by either side. They then get to redraw the rest of the map..."

Ideally, you should redistrict in a non-partisan, objective manner. What they've described is bipartisan, which is to say that it's being decided by moneyed, powerful political blocs. That said, this may yet be the best solution
posted by TypographicalError at 10:11 AM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


"more politically well-informed voters"

Ctrl-F "Jim crow"...0 results
Ctrl-F "literacy test"...0 results

Try again, Professor Jason Brennan of Georgetown University.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:12 AM on November 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


One person, one vote. And make sure they're counted.
posted by monospace at 10:19 AM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Petula Dvorak, WaPo: She flipped off President Trump — and got fired from her government contracting job
It was the middle-finger salute seen around the world.

Juli Briskman’s protest aimed at the presidential motorcade that roared past her while she was on her cycling path in Northern Virginia last month became an instantly viral photo.

Turns out it has now cost the 50-year-old marketing executive her job.

On Halloween, after Briskman gave her bosses at Akima LLC, a government contracting firm, a heads-up that she was the unidentified cyclist in the photo, they took her into a room and fired her, she said, escorting her out of the building with a box of her things.
Whatever you do, don’t go to Akima LLC’s contact page to tell them what morons they are.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:21 AM on November 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


more politically well-informed voters 

There's a joke about Plato's philosopher king concept (I think from the book Cvltvre Made Stupid) in the form of a humorous syllogism.

Plato: Society should be ruled by the best people
Philosophers like me are the best people
Therefor society should be ruled by philosophers like me

I think that captures the challenge of the GovTrack thought experiment.
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:27 AM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Every time there's a national internet outage like there is right now, I wonder, "Is this it? Have they cut us off?"

Would be a great way to stop information dissemination.
posted by Donald Trump Sex Nightmare at 10:33 AM on November 6, 2017


There's a national Internet outage happening right right now?
posted by Tevin at 10:35 AM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Haha, snort: Gates and Manafort asked if they could take off their GPS bracelets for house arrest, judge said no.

Hee hee, Judge keeps Manafort, Gates under house arrest — for now
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:44 AM on November 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


There's a national Internet outage happening right right now?

Looks like a major DNS server is down.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 10:47 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Jackson did indicate that she was leaning in favor of easing that condition while planning to impose certain restrictions, such as a bar on international travrl. (sic)

Because the guy with millions in offshore accounts who has buddies/fellow Russian agents with private jets isn't a flight risk.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:49 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I've heard Brennan's arguments about nullifying democracy quoted chapter and verse by Silicon Valley techbros who would otherwise identify themselves as Libertarian. I cannot think of a more clear indication that Libertarians don't actually believe what they profess about, you know, individual liberty for all. If they did, they'd converge on democracy. Instead the veneer wears off pretty quick and the roots in contempt of the rest of humankind come clear.
posted by Sublimity at 10:53 AM on November 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Veselnitskaya has now reportedly changed her story again and is denying what she told Bloomberg. Or as Bill Browder puts it: "Veselnitskaya seems to be changing her story minute to minute without any regard to her credibility. I wouldn't believe a word she says." So that's weird.

She's obviously untrustworthy here, but it's hard not to see her allegations of a quid pro quo as a warning shot at Trump in advance of any upcoming meeting with Putin, which Trump wants. Russia's goal is to cause chaos and spread FUD here, and what better way to do that than to connect the dots and hint at collusion themselves?

It's as if the Trump family failed to realize that when you make a deal with the devil, he's going to come back someday.

Meanwhile, Richard Rubin of WSJ on the tax plan: In GOP Tax Bill, How You Get Rich Matters, in which tax cuts for the rich are in inverse proportion to whether they did anything to make their money:
Take a simplified example of $2 million, received at the relevant top rates, by five different people: a salaried executive; the owner-operator of a manufacturer; an investor receiving dividends; a passive business owner, such as one who has a stake in a real-estate property; and an heir from a large estate.

Under the GOP plan, the executive would pay $868,000 in taxes, according to a rough calculation by Tony Nitti, of WithumSmith + Brown, an accounting firm. The manufacturer pays $704,400, but might be able to argue her way into a lower bill. The passive business owner pays $576,000. The dividend-earning investor pays $476,000. The heir to the estate pays nothing. The manufacturer, the estate and the passive owner all get big tax cuts from the GOP plan. The investor and the wage earner generally don’t.

On top of that, upper-middle-class taxpayers who make far less than $2 million could see tax increases, especially if they live in high-tax states and would no longer be able to deduct state and local income taxes.
posted by zachlipton at 10:54 AM on November 6, 2017 [38 favorites]


Paul Waldman: The indefensible Republican response to the Texas mass shooting (emphasis in original)
We know they aren’t going to do anything, not even get behind measures like universal background checks that have the support of nine in ten Americans. So at the very least, we should insist that they be honest about what they believe.

And what they believe is this: The unceasing, relentless, mind-numbing carnage that we in America experience because of our gun fetish? Not just the mass shootings — which make up a tiny portion of all those killed with guns — but the day-in, day-out death toll? The pile of bodies, the broken families, the misery and death and despair? Our fellow citizens getting murdered in church, at concerts, at the movies, in nightclubs, in malls, in school? Gun advocates, a group that includes almost every elected Republican, simply do not think it’s a problem.

Let me be clear on what I mean by this. Surely many Republicans are personally horrified by mass shootings and even by daily gun carnage. And sometimes Republicans do offer various readings of this problem that might point to solutions — some genuinely do see this as a mental health problem, for instance. But even in these cases, Republicans do not propose serious solutions to the problem as they’ve identified it.

Presumably there’s some number of gun deaths that would lead them to propose genuine and meaningful solutions — maybe 500,000 a year, or 1 million, or 10 million — but whatever that level is, 35,000 just isn’t high enough for them.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:56 AM on November 6, 2017 [56 favorites]


Veselnitskaya has now reportedly changed her story again

I worry that this is an intentional strategy to cast doubt on that meeting. We should have what, almost a dozen versions of what happened at the meeting? But if no one can agree, well, I guess we just have to set it aside ...

I have faith in Mueller.
posted by Dashy at 10:58 AM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Heck, even senators being shot at did nothing.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:58 AM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


FYI, Election Day thread.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:59 AM on November 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


zombieflanders:
"Presumably there’s some number of gun deaths that would lead them to propose genuine and meaningful solutions — maybe 500,000 a year, or 1 million, or 10 million — but whatever that level is, 35,000 just isn’t high enough for them."
I was hanging out in a discussion forum with a bunch of libertarian types. Gun control was being discussed.

Someone asked, "How many children have to die before you give in and allow some sort of gun control?"

The first reply was, "All of them."
posted by charred husk at 10:59 AM on November 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


Presumably there’s some number of gun deaths that would lead them to propose genuine and meaningful solutions — maybe 500,000 a year, or 1 million, or 10 million — but whatever that level is, 35,000 just isn’t high enough for them.

Nope. The number is one. One person that matters to them; a relative, or loved one. That's what changes their mind. They only ever alter their worldview when it affects them personally. And then they try to alter it only to their own betterment. No one else's.
posted by wabbittwax at 11:00 AM on November 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Scott Clement and Mark Blumenthal, WaPo: How polling methodology affects Ralph Northam’s lead in the Virginia governor’s race
Two recent surveys illustrate the challenge of determining who is actually likely to vote. Based on different methods of identifying likely voters, Northam’s lead could be as large as eight points and as small as two points. […]

Despite these different methods, both surveys found Northam with a slight lead over Gillespie of five percentage points among likely voters. The Post’s telephone poll, conducted Oct. 26-29, shows Northam leading 49 to 44 percent among likely voters, while the SurveyMonkey online poll, conducted Oct. 20-Nov. 2, shows Northam leading 51 to 46 percent.

But as the graph below shows, the size of Northam’s lead depends on who is defined as likely to vote.
/takes Pepto-Bismol back from schadenfrau, finishes bottle
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:01 AM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


> The number is one. One person that matters to them; a relative, or loved one. That's what changes their mind.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:04 AM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


When your gun is your security blanket, scary things happening are going to just make you hold onto it tighter.

That is not meant to be insulting. I can see why a gun would be a security blanket for people who don't trust government or institutions. It makes sense. But a gun can't really keep you safe against these kinds of threats, as we keep seeing. So it is really more the perception of security than the reality. But for a lot of people, it is the only security they think they have.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:16 AM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


I'll go to my grave not understanding the motives of people who not only don't give a shit about the environment but actively want to ruin it until there's nothing left. I guess it's some combination of a Christian-derived belief that God gave humans permission to do whatever we want "over all the earth" and will therefore somehow make sure his Chosen Ones pull through no matter what, greed, short-sightedness (although most of them have children, grandchildren, etc., so I don't know how that works), denial (oh, right), the belief that the Rapture is right around the corner so it doesn't matter if the entire planet is covered in a layer of coal dust and/or LOL LIBERAL TEARS.

It's much simpler than that. The answer is money. They can make money destroying the environment, so they actively attempt to destroy the environment.
posted by lydhre at 11:19 AM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Johnny Wallflower: "But as the graph below shows, the size of Northam’s lead depends on who is defined as likely to vote."

Definitely. If you go check out that Siena/Upshot poll they tried to do a bunch of modeling to account for that.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:25 AM on November 6, 2017


The answer is money.

Which then leads to the question how do they reconcile their unceasing quest to make as much money as possible with allllll of the places in the Bible that specifically state that money is the root of all evil and that rich men are going to hell?

(Perhaps they're not actually Christians? Who knows!)
posted by elsietheeel at 11:28 AM on November 6, 2017


Which then leads to the question how do they reconcile their unceasing quest to make as much money as possible with allllll of the places in the Bible that specifically state that money is the root of all evil and that rich men are going to hell?

This bullshit is how.
posted by solotoro at 11:36 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Comcast Xfinity Internet appears to be down / down-ish across the US Ashley Carman, The Verge, 12h ago
posted by petebest at 11:36 AM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Progress is rarely if ever made by persuading Republicans to vote differently -- on guns, environment, taxes, etc. That's virtually hopeless. Progress is made by winning Democratic majorities and passing laws ourselves. The challenge on guns (once we've won a majority) is making sure centrist Dems are going to go along with it. There are a lot of things that never even come to the floor, even when Dems are the majority, because pro-gun centrist Dems quietly make it known that such bills have no chance of passing. So it would seem that a key strategy would be to get centrist Dems on the record now that they promise to vote for X, Y and Z policies should the opportunity arise in 2019-2021. That still leaves the problem of the 60-vote threshold in the Senate, but at least there either (a) all our energy can focus on a few centrist Republicans, or (b) we realize that the filibuster will eventually be killed (as it ought to be) and for once decide to be first movers. But that's far down the road. A crucial strategy now -- though we should never stop attacking and shaming Republicans -- is to focus on quietly reluctant Dems who might be nudged today into promises that might be harder to extract once they are actually swing votes.
posted by chortly at 11:36 AM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


The Gun Culture Needs to Do a Better Job of Policing Its Own
There are two Americas, and yesterday's church massacre took place in the one I don't live in. The shooter and his victims grew up in Texas, where it's widely assumed that guns are very, very good for society. A "good man with a gun" shot the assailant, but only after he'd killed 26 people. Gun culture helped end this tragedy, but gun culture also caused it. [...]

Devin Patrick Kelley grew up in that culture. It's part of the conservative culture, the culture of the America I don't live in. But nobody ever says to this culture what the conservative culture says to Muslims when one Muslim commits an act of violence: Why don't you police your own people? Why don't you do a better job of identifying those who adhere to a perverted version of your belief system? Why don't you report the dangerous ones to the authorities? [...]

This shooting is on you, members of the gun culture. You tell these shooters that guns are good. And they believe you.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:38 AM on November 6, 2017 [86 favorites]


Apparently the shooter commited suicide. Sorry gun culture.
posted by Artw at 11:39 AM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Denial" is complicated though. It isn't just sticking your fingers in your ears and going "lalalala." It includes:

a. Staying in sync with your peer group/avoiding mockery or isolation. This is probably the big one for most people.

b. Avoiding negative feelings. Thinking about things like racism, sexism or global warming is sad and guilt-inducing. It makes you question whether you really deserve the good things you have.

c. Repressing guilt tends to lead to anger at those who made you feel guilty; you just want them to go away/stop reminding you of your complicity in something bad, so you lash out at them and demand they shut up.

Oh and the Bible only said the love of money is the root, not money itself. Which is good for all of us sinners forced to participate in capitalism.
posted by emjaybee at 11:40 AM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Republicans Are Laser-Targeting Enemies in Their Tax Bill

Forgive me for repeating my cite-of-someone-else's-note from the top of the thread, but:

-eliminates the deduction for teachers who buy supplies out of pocket (currently capped at $250)
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:56 AM on November 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


Brennan isn’t arguing in favor of replacing democracy with any of the familiar alternatives, such as totalitarianism, benevolent dictatorship, or a parliamentary system.

Wait, what? Parliamentary systems are less democratic than presidential ones with electoral colleges?!

Brennan, or whoever's writing him up, needs to get out more.
posted by Mocata at 12:01 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


I can see why a gun would be a security blanket for people who don't trust government or institutions. It makes sense.
And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations
posted by kirkaracha at 12:02 PM on November 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Meanwhile, Richard Rubin of WSJ on the tax plan: In GOP Tax Bill, How You Get Rich Matters, in which tax cuts for the rich are in inverse proportion to whether they did anything to make their money:

In my lifetime, neither Republicans nor Democrats have really been on the side of the upper middle class -- people who make a lot of money, but still have to work. Very roughly, I think Republicans favor the investor/capital class, and Democrats favor the poor. My own almost-in-the-1% working-class taxes would go up under every tax bill the Republicans have proposed so far.

I don't really mind paying more taxes, but I do mind paying higher taxes when people who are even richer are getting tax breaks.
posted by reventlov at 12:09 PM on November 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


And you should mind paying taxes when Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and their ilk are deciding what they should be used for...
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:12 PM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Apparently the shooter commited suicide. Sorry gun culture.

Even if the citizen had killed him, that would have been "stopping the massacre" in the same way the wait staff at a restaurant stop my meal when they clear my empty plate.
posted by Justinian at 12:23 PM on November 6, 2017 [43 favorites]


Mocata: "Wait, what? Parliamentary systems are less democratic than presidential ones with electoral colleges?!

Brennan, or whoever's writing him up, needs to get out more.
"

Even when questioning how America is governed, one must always assume that the American system is best.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:27 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Paul Manafort, Rick Gates to remain on house arrest with movements tracked by GPS, judge orders (Kevin Johnson and Brad Heath, USA TODAY)

Next court date is Dec.11 to start discovery negotiations.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:28 PM on November 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


Presumably there’s some number of gun deaths that would lead them to propose genuine and meaningful solutions — maybe 500,000 a year, or 1 million, or 10 million — but whatever that level is, 35,000 just isn’t high enough for them.

Eddie Izzard believes the exact opposite. I'm inclined to agree with him in the sense that too many victims becomes abstract. 1 is personal.
posted by greermahoney at 12:33 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The guy who allegedly attacked Rand Paul's lawyer put out a statement saying "the unfortunate occurrence of November 3rd has absolutely nothing to do with either's politics or political agendas. It was a very regrettable dispute between two neighbors over a matter that most people would regard as trivial."

What idiot thought "over a matter that most people would regard as trivial" would make the questions stop? And Paul was tackled from behind, per the arrest warrant. Whatever happened, it sounds suitably embarrassing.
posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Paul Manafort, Rick Gates to remain on house arrest with movements tracked by GPS

So Gates ended up missing his kids' sports games? We're coming up on the part of the movie where a mischievous spirit turns Gates into a talking raccoon or something so he can learn to become a better dad, a better husband—and a better man.
posted by Iridic at 12:40 PM on November 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


"... a matter that most people would regard as trivial."

I have no doubt that it was about lawn care.
posted by contraption at 12:43 PM on November 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


Whatever happened, it sounds suitably embarrassing.

And I want to know every excruciating detail.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:43 PM on November 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


We're coming up on the part of the movie where a mischievous spirit turns Gates into a talking raccoon or something so he can learn to become a better dad, a better husband—and a better man.

Nice try, but that talking raccoon better have an ankle monitor.
posted by lydhre at 12:45 PM on November 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Update on the Latvala sexual assault imbroglio in Florida - he's taking a leave from chairing the FL Senate Appropriations Committee while the charges are investigated.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:51 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


"... a matter that most people would regard as trivial."

HOA-related fights can be pretty nasty.

Oh, and I forget who brought it up a little ways upthread, but the destruction of the environment is a radical evangelical Christian thing. It's part of their belief system that the destruction of the earth will hasten the second coming. Think people like Michele Bachman to get the full picture of what level of bonkers we're talking about here. For them, it's pointless to care about the future of the planet, because they believe there is no future, that Jesus is already on his way back to rescue them in his spaceship or whatever.
posted by palomar at 12:52 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]




I’m betting it’s something like “Neighbor trips over garden rake, screams, ‘And you never used to clean up your scalpels either!’ and hits Rand with said rake.”
posted by corb at 12:53 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Tax Policy Center put out its preliminary analysis of the tax plan. There's a handy chart showing how the cuts for the top 1% persist while most of the benefits disappear after a couple years for everyone else. 12% would see a tax increase of an average $1,600 in the first year, especially those in the upper-middle class reventlov was talking about. In 10 years, 28% of taxpayers would see an increase of an average of $2,000, including many with low incomes.

By 2028, the average family making $5 million/year (in 2017 dollars) would have a tax cut of over a quarter million dollars (some would see cuts, some increases), while those making less than $50,000 would see an average increase of $10-$20.

A more detailed breakdown reveals other horrible facts—@ernietedeschi: Yikes. The TCJA is surprisingly bad for families with kids in 2018 per this TPC analysis. Average tax *hike* for families <$50K.
posted by zachlipton at 12:54 PM on November 6, 2017 [29 favorites]


White resentment is fueling opposition to gun control, researchers say; Christopher Ingraham, WaPo
Kerry O'Brien is a researcher a Monash University in Australia who has also investigated the link toward racial attitudes and gun ownership. He notes that the correlation between racial resentment and gun attitudes has been well-established in existing sociological literature going back at least 30 years.
The piece itself is a little light on the science, but both of those links go to academic journals, but I'm not personally equipped to interpret them, but so yeah there you go.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:57 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Despair is a sin. When I feel down, I remember that US election law on contributions and donations by foreign nationals (52 U.S. Code § 30121) appears to indicate that just by showing up at the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians expecting anything, they violated the law.
(a) Prohibition It shall be unlawful for—

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make—

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;
posted by mikelieman at 12:57 PM on November 6, 2017 [28 favorites]


I have a question about Manafort 's multriple passports. It's been established that there's nothing inherently suspicious about having multiple passports, but why would they have different numbers?
posted by Room 641-A at 12:58 PM on November 6, 2017


How else would you tell them apart?
posted by SPrintF at 1:00 PM on November 6, 2017


I don't think it's worth spending very many precious evens getting all het up about the House version of a bill that has no chance of getting through the Senate's reconciliation rules, but dang, the clear and direct way in which the current tax proposal punishes those who work for their money in order to reward those who don't is another key indicator of how fucked-up the GOP's priorities are.
posted by notyou at 1:02 PM on November 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


but why would they have different numbers?

When you renew a passport, or replace a lost passport, you get a different number. The numbers are all one-use-only and the passports are totally separate from one another.
posted by halation at 1:03 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Thank you! I have one passport with a few stamps that's probably 25 years expired.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:04 PM on November 6, 2017


I have a question about Manafort 's multriple passports. It's been established that there's nothing inherently suspicious about having multiple passports, but why would they have different numbers?

The real question is: Does Manafort have passports under other names, like his burner cellphones? Does Manafort have a Ukrainian passport under the name Wilfredo Torres?
posted by mikelieman at 1:05 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


There's a handy chart showing how the cuts for the top 1% persist while most of the benefits disappear after a couple years for everyone else. 12% would see a tax increase of an average $1,600 in the first year, especially those in the upper-middle class reventlov was talking about. In 10 years, 28% of taxpayers would see an increase of an average of $2,000, including many with low incomes.

If memory serves me correctly, Republicans used to describe the fact that the Democrats would only approve a tax cut that had a sunset clause as actually approving of a tax hike, since taxes would eventually go up once they were cut.
posted by Gelatin at 1:05 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


but dang, the clear and direct way in which the current tax proposal punishes those who work for their money in order to reward those who don't is another key indicator of how fucked-up the GOP's priorities are

And how bad the Democrats' messaging is, in that they never make that simple message clear.
posted by Gelatin at 1:08 PM on November 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


> Republicans used to describe the fact that the Democrats would only approve a tax cut that had a sunset clause as actually approving of a tax hike, since taxes would eventually go up once they were cut.

Yeah this was the kind of bullshit sophistry (see also: "Guns don't kill people, people do") that used to drive me up the wall back in the 90s, when Republicans were a supposedly reasonable party. These days the true believers are so deep into their own supply that they don't even care to apply a fig leaf of shame or decency.

2017: Everything is terrible and nothing matters.

(Whoever said upthread that despair is a sin - you're right, I'm sorry, I'm working on it, but I just have such a bad feeling about everything right now - including Virginia, especially...)
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:12 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't think it's worth spending very many precious evens getting all het up about the House version of a bill that has no chance of getting through the Senate's reconciliation rules, but dang, the clear and direct way in which the current tax proposal punishes those who work for their money in order to reward those who don't is another key indicator of how fucked-up the GOP's priorities are.

It's incredible to me that long-term capital gains are taxed lower than ordinary income. I would love to see the elimination of the capital gains tax as a whole. Just tax it the same as income! What possible rationale could there be for taking a small share of that money other than naked corruption? Mitt Romney doesn't need a 14% cumulative tax rate!
posted by Existential Dread at 1:12 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


This story just keeps getting better. @jmartNYT: Two Kentuckians tell me Rand’s neighborhood fracas stemmed from a dispute over some sort of planting or flora issue around the properties
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on November 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


They both need to chill and visit the Aqua Buddha
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:14 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Reuters vis Jerusalem Post: SAUDI ARABIA SAYS LEBANON HAS DECLARED WAR ON IT ( just a brief story)
posted by neroli at 1:15 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Whoever said upthread that despair is a sin - you're right, I'm sorry, I'm working on it,

I keep telling *myself* that ( and it shows up here ) because if I didn't keep telling myself that, I'd finish the bottle of wild turkey 101. The best way to "work on it" is to double-down on self-care. Do something FOR YOURSELF. The only way out is through, and this turned into a fucking marathon...
posted by mikelieman at 1:16 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


some sort of planting or flora issue around the properties

the wrong colour mums? the virtues of ornamental kale? EITHER IS WORTH FIGHTING FOR
posted by halation at 1:16 PM on November 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


Plantifa confirmed
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:17 PM on November 6, 2017 [123 favorites]


SAUDI ARABIA SAYS LEBANON HAS DECLARED WAR ON IT

Whaaat? And Trump's in charge over here... nononono
posted by Rykey at 1:18 PM on November 6, 2017


But Twitter Nazis swore the guy who beat up Rand Paul was a hardcore antifa socialist! That's surely the last time the media believes them until the next time literally anything happens anywhere.
posted by Copronymus at 1:19 PM on November 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


The Lebanese "declaration of war" appears to be hyperbole on the part of a Saudi government minister.

I would also like to open a local chapter of this Lebanese Party of the Devil to which he refers, please and thank you.
posted by Quindar Beep at 1:21 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Whoever above said the dispute was over "hedges" wins; I'll buy you a ride on a lawn mower if you're ever in town.
posted by notyou at 1:22 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Plantifa confirmed
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:17 PM on November 6


take your favorite, you magnificent bastard
posted by entropicamericana at 1:23 PM on November 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


Saudi Arabia has a lot to learn on how one does this 'war' thing.
posted by rc3spencer at 1:23 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


So Rand Paul was injured in a bizarre gardening incident? I'll have to add another movie to my GOP analogies list.
posted by Devonian at 1:25 PM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Rich old fuckers are serious about lawncare.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:25 PM on November 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


> Saudi Arabia has a lot to learn on how one does this 'war' thing.


That's very blasé. SA is picking a public fight with Iran now, with the presumed backing of the corrupt US. Not good.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:26 PM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


The Tax Policy Center released their analysis of the tax bill and finds the average family with children making less than $100,000 would get a tax INCREASE under GOP plan.

And households making $5+ million get an average tax cut of $300k while households making below $55,000 get a tax hike.

Populist indeed.
posted by chris24 at 1:26 PM on November 6, 2017 [55 favorites]


Party of the Devil

Putting that in YouTube pulls up Attila, which no thanks. Sounds more like a throwback glam band, or something classically heavy metal like Tribulation
posted by Existential Dread at 1:26 PM on November 6, 2017


I worked for a law firm while I was in college. Disputes between neighbors were always simultaneously hilarious and cringe-inducing. You read the case files and think, "Holy shit, how can anyone be this ridiculous," but then you remember this is about your home where you're supposed to feel safe. Having serious friction and stress with someone right next door, where you're otherwise supposed to be able to relax, can cause people to really flip out.

But the thing is, this sort of shit can happen to anyone. Even upper-class people. Even people with medical and political careers.

...and then your neighbor asked you to stop "watering your plants" directly into his window and onto his computer, and you tell him to fuck off, so he comes over and turns off the hose, and so you whip the hose around like a weapon and clip him with the spray nozzle head in the hip so hard he needs stitches, and the file clerks in the law firm are laughing at you...
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:30 PM on November 6, 2017 [39 favorites]


...and then your neighbor asked you to stop "watering your plants" directly into his window and onto your computer, and you tell him to fuck off, so he comes over and turns off the hose, and so you whip the hose around like a weapon and clip him with the spray nozzle head in the hip so hard he needs stitches, and the file clerks in the law firm are laughing at you...

Go on...
posted by orrnyereg at 1:32 PM on November 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


I can't remember who but someone in Politics Twitter tweeted that he's never known a libertarian who didn't have major issues with a neighbor. I think there's something to that.
posted by chris24 at 1:33 PM on November 6, 2017 [60 favorites]


Putting that in YouTube pulls up Attila, which no thanks. Sounds more like a throwback glam band

Would you believe a 1970s rock band featuring Billy Joel?
Their only album, Attila, was released on July 27, 1970. Attila has been selected by AllMusic critics as one of the worst rock albums of all time. Joel himself has gone on record as describing the album as "psychedelic bullshit".
...
Their creative partnership ended in 1970 when Joel ran off with Small's wife, Elizabeth, although this did not end their collaborations, as Small produced Joel's Концерт video
posted by mikepop at 1:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh. I forgot the step where first you try to deter the neighbor from turning off your hose by spraying him, but he just keeps on going toward your house like a monster! You're spraying water at him and it's like he doesn't even care! Maybe he was on PCP!
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:35 PM on November 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


GI can't remember who but someone in Politics Twitter tweeted that he's never known a libertarian who didn't have major issues with a neighbor. I think there's something to that.

What’s the point of having the god given right to be a complete asshole if you never use it?
posted by Talez at 1:35 PM on November 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Satellite view of his crib sure does look like someone has branches spanning the fence onto the other property. IDK if Paul is the one giving his branches free will to grow or is in the other house demanding he not be encroached on.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:43 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


(I had a question in the election thread for anyone who's done text/phone bank thru indivisible.)
posted by NorthernLite at 1:44 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


"over a matter that most people would regard as trivial"

Which no doubt is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in jail, just like all the 17 year olds in Ferguson get, right? I mean, hey, their parents should have raised them better.
posted by petebest at 1:45 PM on November 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


> Having serious friction and stress with someone right next door, where you're otherwise supposed to be able to relax, can cause people to really flip out.

Oh my God, yes. As an Asshole Neighbour Survivor I've got sympathy for anyone with an Asshole Neighbour, even if I would detest everything else about that person. The inability to relax in your home is exactly it; even when my Asshole Neighbour wasn't home I was always on edge, waiting for him to come back and start acting like an asshole, which he inevitably would, quite often at 3 AM.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:54 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Ten bucks says Rand Paul tried to built a moat
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:57 PM on November 6, 2017 [23 favorites]


Another day, another record low in a poll.

CNN Poll: Trump approval at new low as Russia concerns grow
Donald Trump's approval rating stands at its lowest point in CNN's polling as concerns about contacts between Trump's presidential campaign and Russian operatives have grown sharply in the wake of the first indictments from the special counsel investigating Russian meddling in the US election.

Overall, just 36% say they approve of the way Trump is handling his job as president, according to a new CNN Poll conducted by SSRS, worse by one percentage point than Trump's previous low of 37%, reached in October. Disapproval has also reached a new high at 58%, with nearly half (48%) saying they strongly disapprove of the way the President is handling his job.

More Americans than ever before express concern about contacts between suspected Russian operatives and Trump's presidential campaign. Forty-four percent say they are "very concerned" about those reports, up from just 27% saying so in July, shortly after news broke about a meeting at Trump Tower between Donald Trump, Jr. Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort and a Russian lawyer, among others. [...]

Almost six in 10, 59%, say they think Trump himself knew last year that anyone associated with his campaign had contact with suspected Russian operatives, while only 35% think the then-GOP nominee did not know about those contacts. Fewer (39%) see last week's legal actions as signs of a widespread effort within the campaign to coordinate with Russia; 44% say they represent an effort to coordinate that was limited to just a few people.

And with the investigation's first charges, the poll also finds broader support for a full investigation into Russia's efforts to influence the election as well as a rising share who consider such meddling a crisis. About two-thirds (64%) now say the investigation into Russian efforts to influence the US presidential election in 2016 is a serious matter that should be fully investigated, while just 32% see it as an effort to discredit Trump's presidency. That figure is down from 38% saying so in August.
posted by chris24 at 2:00 PM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


Ten bucks says Rand Paul tried to built a moat

Clearly, the logical response would have been to build a trebuchet
posted by Existential Dread at 2:01 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


your right to swing your trebuchet ends at my moat
posted by entropicamericana at 2:05 PM on November 6, 2017 [51 favorites]


Another day, another record low in a poll.

I seem to read these every few weeks but it looks like statistical noise to me. If you look at the polling average Trump has for the last 6 months fluctuated between around 55/39 and 58/37. It has been remarkably stable.
posted by Justinian at 2:07 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Yeah, we have a neighbor who leaves their yappy little ratdog outside all.the.damn.time. I have considered violence, and I am not a violent person.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:10 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Not against the dog (I assume/hope). There are no bad dogs, only bad owners.
posted by VTX at 2:11 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


It has been remarkably stable.

Well, it's hard to vary/drop much when you're already 33 points below the next worst in net approval. He's basically not much above the Crazification factor. And that's with very low unemployment, a rising stock market, no war, etc. The fact that he stays this low and is even slowly dropping, especially in some key cross tabs, in this economic environment, is revealing.
posted by chris24 at 2:13 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


But the thing is, this sort of shit can happen to anyone. Even upper-class people.

Since time immemorial! I recently read Bleak House, which has a minor side plot around an endlessly disputed right-of-way between two neighboring gentlemen (Sir Leicester Dedlock and Lawrence Boythorn). An excerpt:
"By my soul," exclaimed Mr. Boythorn, suddenly firing another volley, "that fellow is, and his father was, and his grandfather was, the most stiff-necked, arrogant imbecile, pig-headed numskull, ever, by some inexplicable mistake of Nature, born in any station of life but a walking-stick's! The whole of that family are the most solemnly conceited and consummate blockheads! But it's no matter; he should not shut up my path if he were fifty baronets melted into one and living in a hundred Chesney Wolds, one within another, like the ivory balls in a Chinese carving. The fellow, by his agent, or secretary, or somebody, writes to me 'Sir Leicester Dedlock, Baronet, presents his compliments to Mr. Lawrence Boythorn, and has to call his attention to the fact that the green pathway by the old parsonage-house, now the property of Mr. Lawrence Boythorn, is Sir Leicester's right of way, being in fact a portion of the park of Chesney Wold, and that Sir Leicester finds it convenient to close up the same.' I write to the fellow, 'Mr. Lawrence Boythorn presents his compliments to Sir Leicester Dedlock, Baronet, and has to call HIS attention to the fact that he totally denies the whole of Sir Leicester Dedlock's positions on every possible subject and has to add, in reference to closing up the pathway, that he will be glad to see the man who may undertake to do it.' The fellow sends a most abandoned villain with one eye to construct a gateway. I play upon that execrable scoundrel with a fire-engine until the breath is nearly driven out of his body. The fellow erects a gate in the night. I chop it down and burn it in the morning. He sends his myrmidons to come over the fence and pass and repass. I catch them in humane man traps, fire split peas at their legs, play upon them with the engine—resolve to free mankind from the insupportable burden of the existence of those lurking ruffians. He brings actions for trespass; I bring actions for trespass. He brings actions for assault and battery; I defend them and continue to assault and batter. Ha, ha, ha!"
posted by theodolite at 2:13 PM on November 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


A third Kentuckian sez the dispute revolves around a small strip of land by both props that leads to a man-made lake

I'd say that's worth at least $5 of Ray Walston, Luck Dragon's bet that it was about a moat.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:16 PM on November 6, 2017 [20 favorites]


Ten bucks says Rand Paul tried to built a moat
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon

CONFIRMED
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:17 PM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


ooooh. Boundry disputes over tiny strips of land are the best!
posted by Artw at 2:17 PM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


chris24: And households making $5+ million get an average tax cut of $300k while households making below $55,000 get a tax hike.

Populist indeed.


Meanwhile, NPR has a good, slightly bemused laugh about how funny it is that the GOP, who were sure they would lose in 2016, are now lead by "a New York billionaire [who] can now lay claim to being today's champion of working America." Now isn't that just a laugh and a half?!

At which point, I shouted at my radio. A lot. Something like "WHAT THE FUCK HAS TRUMP DONE FOR WORKING AMERICA BESIDES ALLOW THE WHITE PORTION TO BE EXCEEDINGLY HATEFUL AND RACIST?!"

He is as populist as a snake oil salesman, in that he needs a bunch of rubes to buy his snake oil.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:18 PM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


I was thinking of the "want insta-popularity? be a War President!!111!!!" idea and how that worked for Bush: he did get a huge popularity boost post-9/11, but that soon dissipated, and it was a boost from his base level of about 50%. Bush hit Trumpian lows post-Katrina.

Trump isn't even starting with the kind of goodwill that previous Presidents - even ones elected or appointed under controversial circumstances - have. It would take some kind of miracle for Trump to become popular with those outside the rabid base - a complete pivot on policy, for starters. And maybe having $50 bills fly out his ass every time he farts. I can see his ratings creeping up, but as it stands, hitting even 50% approval, unless it's a long slow creep upwards, is a stretch.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:19 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


> Boundry disputes over tiny strips of land are the best!

Sometimes it's Alsace-Lorraine, and sometimes it's just a path to your backyard pond.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:20 PM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


I seem to read these every few weeks but it looks like statistical noise to me.

If the mean and variance are constant (and, uh, finite), the "new low" stories should become ever-less-frequent (imagine if the population of runners didn't systematically improve their diet and training over time; you'd expect world records to get less and less frequent). If you keep consistently finding new lows then at least one of those parameters is changing.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:23 PM on November 6, 2017


You think Trump gives a shit what his popularity numbers are? He can always dismiss bad ones as "fake polls", which I guess sort of shows he cares, but also shows he doesn't actually care, since if he did, he'd want to understand why they were low.
posted by thelonius at 2:24 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Sometimes it's Alsace-Lorraine, and sometimes it's just a path to your backyard pond.

The Bowling Green Corridor.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:24 PM on November 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


His approval rating doesn't have to go up that much, because tens of millions of Americans will never vote for a Demmycrat no matter who they're running against.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:25 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


If you keep consistently finding new lows then at least one of those parameters is changing.

I believe what is changing is that it is different polling firms that hit the lows. You'd still expect the frequency to decline over time but it would take longer, I think.
posted by Justinian at 2:25 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Oh, yeah, if it's like "Rasmussen reports its lowest poll yet" that's a totally different story from "Rasmussen reports the lowest poll yet".
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:28 PM on November 6, 2017


We learned that polls and corporate news lead to ruin.

Is anyone commenting in the local paper, for example? Neighborhood chat . . .board thing? "Impeach" airplane banner?
posted by petebest at 2:30 PM on November 6, 2017


ou think Trump gives a shit what his popularity numbers are? He can always dismiss bad ones as "fake polls", which I guess sort of shows he cares, but also shows he doesn't actually care, since if he did, he'd want to understand why they were lo

He very much does and he thinks he understands just fine. The media lies about him, the media doesn't say good things about him, dems and Hillary Clinton especially are against him cause they're bad people, the Deep state is against him, the man or woman of the day is against him, his PR people suck etc etc. His popularity or better feeling like he's popular is one of the primary motivations of his very existence. He talks about it all the time.

His narcissism won't let him understand that the real reasons are all about him. It can't. He's the smartest and the best in the world so it is never anything he does. We just don't get it.
posted by Jalliah at 2:33 PM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


I seem to read these every few weeks but it looks like statistical noise to me. If you look at the polling average Trump has for the last 6 months fluctuated between around 55/39 and 58/37. It has been remarkably stable.

So what would make that actually fall lower? What if the major GOP laws passed (heathcare or taxes), and current supporters start feeling personal pains? It takes a while for laws to impact people, so taxes, if they pass (and there are enough hurdles, including the media actually describing how the GOP is wrong in their promotional speak, and then the public at large pushing back sufficiently, plus internal division in the GOP on the Senate side).

ACA woes can (and naturally are) pushed off as "Obama's broken system is failing you," but tax reforms? That's all the GOP. If nearly a third of Americans realize they're being screwed, as summarized by Vox (reporting on the Tax Policy Center's preliminary analysis, already discussed in this thread), where's the out for the GOP? Of course, there are some cushions that the GOP will be pulling out in a few years, so the full impact won't be felt yet, or never will, if another round of revisions comes in first.
Those provisions mean that in 2027, the bill is considerably more regressive, with 75.8 percent of benefits going to the richest fifth and 48.4 percent to the top 1 percent.

In 2027, the poorest 40 percent of the country would see a tax increase on average. In total, 27.5 percent of households would pay more in 2027 under the plan than they’re currently set to pay. That includes nearly half of households making between $225,400 and $304,600, the 90th to 95th percentiles.
But that's someone else's problem, right? So maybe the GOP can punt the pain until the next administration comes in.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:38 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


shows he doesn't actually care, since if he did, he'd want to understand why they were low.

But he does understand why they're low. The GOP won't pass his agenda, the courts are biased against him, the media is lying to the people, and HIllary is running the country through a secret cabal of, uh, whatever.

Despite winning an HISTORIC victory, he is being thwarted by bad people. Under no possible circumstances do the low polls reflect any sort of error on his part, because that's clearly impossible. He will vanquish his foes by heroic efforts (that take no effort), and no damn judge, prosecutor, or constitution, is going to stop him. THEN the polls will reflect his true magnificence.
posted by Devonian at 2:38 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


apropos of nothing, how did nobody tell me about @PatriotHole?

Man, too real.
posted by Artw at 2:39 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Whatever you do, don’t go to Akima LLC’s contact page to tell them what morons they are.

This is actually on my list of meddling emails/contacts for the day.

Has anyone actually had their contact form applet link work? I got it to load once, but then it errored on submission and wouldn't reload the captcha.

I think it might be getting hugged to death, which is pretty hilarious if its happening to a content distribution network company as big as Akima.
posted by loquacious at 2:39 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


You think Trump gives a shit what his popularity numbers are?

Of course, public acclaim and acceptance is the one and only thing he does appear to give a shit about. Of course he'll try to spin it publicly and rationalize it to himself, but I think he watches his numbers obsessively and that it gets to him when they dive.
posted by contraption at 2:42 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


I think it might be getting hugged to death, which is pretty hilarious if its happening to a content distribution network company as big as Akima.

Akamai is different from Akima.
posted by johnpowell at 2:43 PM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Democratic Lawmaker Calls For 'Serious Conversation' On Root Of Mass Shootings (NPR, Nov. 6, 2017)

Democratic congressman Vicente Gonzales, who represents Texas's 15th congressional district, of which Sutherland Springs is a part:
I think that we need to start having a serious conversation in Congress and the legislatures across the country. What is the root of this problem? Why is the United States of America dealing with this at a higher level than any other advanced country in the world? And I don't believe it's just gun control laws. I believe we may be having a broader social issue. I mean, we have a lot of folks coming home from the military with high levels of PTSD. And I don't believe we've given them the mental health care they need to transition them back into society.
But I think it wouldn't hurt to look at our gun ownership per capita, where hey, where #1! We have more than 1 gun per person, compared to 58 per 100 for #2, Serbia, 54.8 per 100 for #3, Yemen, then down to the 30s from there.

Ridiculously easy access to guns, and a fooking plethora of them, is probably not going to help any situation where mental health is the next concern you mention.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:49 PM on November 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


I just got the contact thing at Akima to work. Let them have it.
posted by njohnson23 at 2:57 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Hey congressman Vicente Gonzales, sounds like a job for the CDC. Oh wait, nevermind.
posted by klarck at 2:59 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


@mkraju (CNN)
Rand Paul and neighbor have been sparring over yard waste and leaves blown on each other's lawns for years, a neighbor tells @DrewGriffinCNN
posted by chris24 at 3:04 PM on November 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


> Rand Paul and neighbor have been sparring over yard waste and leaves blown on each other's lawns for years, a neighbor tells @DrewGriffinCNN

zomg the lolbertarian jokes write themselves
posted by tonycpsu at 3:06 PM on November 6, 2017 [37 favorites]


Akamai is different from Akima.

Doh! Thanks.
posted by loquacious at 3:10 PM on November 6, 2017


See, now that's the sort of thing Ayn Rand left out of Atlas Shrugged, but you just *know* Galt's Gulch would have been chock-fucking-full of Men Of The Mind losing their shit over petty grievances with each other.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:12 PM on November 6, 2017 [54 favorites]


I mean, we have a lot of folks coming home from the military with high levels of PTSD.

The hell? Kelley was stationed in New Mexico when he was in the Air Force. He enlisted in 2010, abused his (then) wife, and did a year's worth of jail time; thereafter, he was "reduced in rank and released from the military with a bad conduct discharge in 2014." Then he beat at least one dog, and the sounds of gunfire were regularly heard from his rural home (where he lived with current wife & their 2-year-old).

Congressman Gonzales' statement is breathtakingly insulting to veterans, and incredibly dismissive of domestic violence and animal abuse, but I know I'm supposed to be grateful he's saying anything at all about gun violence and gun control.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:12 PM on November 6, 2017 [53 favorites]


> Rand Paul and neighbor have been sparring over yard waste and leaves blown on each other's lawns for years, a neighbor tells @DrewGriffinCNN

no jury in the world would convict his neighbor
posted by entropicamericana at 3:17 PM on November 6, 2017 [14 favorites]


Rand Paul and neighbor have been sparring over yard waste and leaves blown on each other's lawns for years, a neighbor tells @DrewGriffinCNN

I desperately, desperately, want to find out the roots of this dispute.
posted by corb at 3:18 PM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


See, now that's the sort of thing Ayn Rand left out of Atlas Shrugged

Is Rand Paul's new favorite book Atlas Shrubbed?
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:18 PM on November 6, 2017 [57 favorites]


Just saw on Twitter that Rand composts, which is *rare* in upscale gated communities.
posted by chris24 at 3:19 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


>>Rand Paul and neighbor have been sparring over yard waste and leaves blown on each other's lawns for years, a neighbor tells @DrewGriffinCNN

>I desperately, desperately, want to find out the roots of this dispute.


I see what you did there...
posted by mosk at 3:22 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rand composts, which is *rare* in upscale gated communities.

There's your problem: the neighbor was non compost mentis.
posted by LeLiLo at 3:23 PM on November 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


Donny endorses the purge.

@realDonaldTrump
I have great confidence in King Salman and the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, they know exactly what they are doing....
....Some of those they are harshly treating have been “milking” their country for years!
posted by chris24 at 3:23 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm seeing reports that the TPC has withdrawn its analysis of the Tax Cut bill because of an unspecified error in calculations. So hold off on quoting those numbers.
posted by Justinian at 3:25 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Donny endorses the purge.

Have to wonder how many of the Saudi princes locked up right now are CIA assets, and how much intelligence work Trump/Kushner just gave the go ahead to light on fire.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:26 PM on November 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


....Some of those they are harshly treating have been “milking” their country for years!

sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, donny, you may wanna keep that thought to yourself
posted by halation at 3:27 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


Donny endorses the purge.

Whelp, there's confirmation it is bad.
posted by Artw at 3:27 PM on November 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Some of those they are harshly treating have been “milking” their country for years!

This from Trump, who is a -causal factor- in Puerto Rico's economic decline, personally. (Hardly the only one, but one)
posted by Archelaus at 3:28 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


....Some of those they are harshly treating have been “milking” their country for years!

Says the man who doesn’t pay taxes.
posted by valkane at 3:32 PM on November 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


So does this mean the Trump family is now offering direct support to Wahhabist's and by extension ISIS an Al Qaeda?
posted by Artw at 3:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


STOP IT WITH THE WEIRD QUOTES

/eye_tic
posted by petebest at 3:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


> I'm seeing reports that the TPC has withdrawn its analysis of the Tax Cut bill because of an unspecified error in calculations. So hold off on quoting those numbers.

"Earlier today, the TPC erroneously stated that the legislation would fuck the poors to provide tax cuts for the wealthy. However, due to a miscalculation, it turns out that the legislation would royally fuck the poors to provide tax cuts for the obscenely wealthy. The TPC regrets the error." [fake, but probably close to the truth]
posted by tonycpsu at 3:37 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Congressman Gonzales' statement is breathtakingly insulting to veterans

And to anybody with any other kind of PTSD, FWIW... Goddamn, get your facts straight, assholes! They matter!
posted by saulgoodman at 3:38 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Galt's Gardening Grievances and the Fertilizer Fracas
posted by Existential Dread at 3:44 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


So.. I live in Alaska and ever since the inauguration I've been engaging in regular office visits, phone calls, e-mails, etc to my two senators (well, in practical terms to Sen. Murkowski, because Sen. Sullivan is not going to buck the party line..) The process has been frustrating but not pointless; on a few occasions we've been able to move Murkowski to do the right thing.

For those of you who live in states where you are represented by solidly Democratic legislators where you haven't felt like there was much point to lobbying your senators and representatives there's now something I'd like you to do to return the favor for those of us who are lobbying our red state swing-vote legislators to do what's right.

If you are represented by Democratic legislators can you please call and tell them that as a constituent you really want to see the party start staking out a strong, unified position that there should be no vote on Trump's proposed tax plan until the president's tax returns and those of the Trump Organization are released and analyzed so the public can see exactly how much the president and his family will benefit from the proposed plan?

He'll never release them voluntarily, I know, and the Dems can't control when anything comes up for a vote, but it's still important to set baseline expectations and give Trump opponents something to talk about. And arguing about whether the president and his family are going to personally stand to benefit by hundreds of millions of dollars is much more friendly ground to fight on than "the Republicans say everyone will be happy with the new plan, while the Democrats say not everybody will be -- we'll let you be the judge."

I have no idea why the Democrats are so pathetically weak in their messaging on this and other issues but they should be on every talk show and all over social networking with their own analyses , e.g. "It's hard to say for sure because the president continues to hide his tax returns from the American people but experts guess that Trump's tax plan might save him as much as $X million dollars while adding $Y trillion dollars to the deficit in the first ten years.."
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:46 PM on November 6, 2017 [73 favorites]




Jesus that is hilarious, loquacious. "Due to the strong negative reaction to their ad by our viewers, we could not in good conscience take their money,” said Jack Abernethy, co-president of Fox News."
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:50 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Donny endorses the purge.

His only understanding of all this is that Salman & Co. fawned all over him the way he thinks people should fawn over him and that Waleed was mean to him on Twitter.

So of course he's cool with the Saudi Night of Long Knives. And he's down with whatever other shit Salman wants to start, too.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:05 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


What I Learned From Three Weeks Watching Fox News Nonstop

The network’s programming does not just wash over its viewers like rain. As studies have suggested—and as you probably already know from studying the Facebook habits of your opinionated uncle Frank—the more you watch Fox News, the more conservative you become. Who are these impressionable people who are so easily swayed by Sean Hannity’s sweet words? After three weeks, I think I can tell you a few things about them. They trust their pastors more than they trust their elected officials. They despise the media despite not actually consuming very much of it. They have an insatiable lust for purchasing retirement gold from websites that advertise on television. They subscribe to a spiteful populism in which the people seize power for the sole purpose of annoying those who preceded them in office. Their vision of America resembles one drawn in crayon by a child on a placemat.
posted by Artw at 4:13 PM on November 6, 2017 [45 favorites]


chris24: "Just saw on Twitter that Rand composts, which is *rare* in upscale gated communities."

Jeez, now there's something I like about Rand Paul. Cripes.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:13 PM on November 6, 2017 [12 favorites]


What I Learned From Three Weeks Watching Fox News Nonstop

Never go full nutjob?
posted by The Card Cheat at 4:20 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


And he's down with whatever other shit Salman wants to start, too.

Welp, that shit may be starting and doesn't sound good.

@iyad_elbaghdadi
"Not only the Lebanese government but all Lebanese are responsible for Hezbollah's actions, KSA will not distinguish between them any more"
posted by chris24 at 4:20 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Jeez, now there's something I like about Rand Paul. Cripes.

At least it’s Rand Paul. When you find yourself nodding at a Piers Morgan op-ed on gun control you never feel clean no matter how hot the water.
posted by Talez at 4:21 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure that's the one issue that Piers Morgan has ever been right about
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:23 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Jeez, now there's something I like about Rand Paul. Cripes.

One of my biggest problems with Paulite Libertarians is that they mix a few correct or even praiseworthy positions and traits in with all the crazy, stupid evil. Which serves to discredit the correct positions like drug legalization.
posted by Justinian at 4:25 PM on November 6, 2017 [18 favorites]


JFC are we seriously going to see Saudi v Lebanon? Is Jordan seriously going to give them overflight rights for any air strikes on Lebanese targets? Does Abdullah really want Hezbollah showing up at the border with RPGs? It’s not like any Syrian authorities are going to stop Lebanese terror agents from passing through.
posted by Talez at 4:27 PM on November 6, 2017




sprouted a reptilian head out of his sternum.

i knew this foliage drama was a cover story 'FRACTURED RIBS' INDEED
posted by halation at 4:33 PM on November 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


I can't remember who but someone in Politics Twitter tweeted that he's never known a libertarian who didn't have major issues with a neighbor. I think there's something to that.

Isn't The Fountainhead about a guy who blows up a housing development because he doesn't like the balconies?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 4:35 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


"Due to the strong negative reaction to their ad by our viewers, we could not in good conscience take their money,” said Jack Abernethy, co-president of Fox News."

On the other hand, Steyer was claiming Fox News violated his First Amendment right to free speech, which is, well, just incorrect.

Although, I see now he has pivoted to breach of contract.
posted by zakur at 4:38 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


JFC are we seriously going to see Saudi v Lebanon? Is Jordan seriously going to give them overflight rights for any air strikes on Lebanese targets? Does Abdullah really want Hezbollah showing up at the border with RPGs? It’s not like any Syrian authorities are going to stop Lebanese terror agents from passing through.

I think this is part of an ongoing effort at driving a wedge between Hezbollah and whomever in Lebanon has the wherewithal to resist Hezbollah and push it out of its position in/influencing the government. IOW, basically forcing Iran to expend resources shoring up a client a way over there while SA amps up the pressure on Iranian clients in the Gulf.
posted by notyou at 4:38 PM on November 6, 2017


Some of those they are harshly treating have been “milking” their country for years...

So...he's claiming that the arrested ones have been harshly treated? From what I've read, they're being put up in the Riyadh Ritz Carleton.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 4:49 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Saudi-Lebanon thing is weird, and the Trump/Kushner association makes it weirder. It's very reminiscent of Saudi Arabia's sudden condemnation of Qatar: nobody expected it and it didn't seem to make sense. In fact the weirdness probably extends to ithe Saudi offensive in Yemen, which is similarly excessive and equally hard to justify. It's as if the place is being run by George III rather than Salman I.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:49 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


> "Veselnitskaya has now reportedly changed her story again"

I think it's reasonably safe to assume that anything she says is something she's been told to say. This doesn't mean that it's true or that it's false, necessarily. Just that she's been told to say it. I'd argue this is not a conspiracy theory so much as an assumption that she doesn't want to wake up dead some morning.
posted by kyrademon at 4:52 PM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


And just so it isn't forgotten, 867,000 homes and businesses in Puerto Rico are still without electricity.
posted by kyrademon at 4:58 PM on November 6, 2017 [84 favorites]


I hope Rand Paul paid his hospital bill in cash in advance, or else he enslaved those doctors.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:59 PM on November 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


From the most recent New York Times article on Rand Paul:
Mr. Paul, 54, has long stood out in the well-to-do gated neighborhood south of Bowling Green, Ky., that he calls home. The senator grows pumpkins on his property, composts and has shown little interest for neighborhood regulations ...

Asked about long-leveled allegations that Mr. Paul had disregarded neighborhood regulations, Mr. Skaggs, who is also a former leader of the county Republican Party, said that the senator “certainly believes in stronger property rights than exist in America.”
Rand Paul lives in a gated community. The "neighborhood regulations" are presumably HOA regulations. HOA regulations that he would have been aware of when he purchased the property. HOA regulations that were originally developed in response to a perceived market demand for an orderly neighborhood with no pumpkin patches and no compost piles.

The "stronger property rights than exist in America" are rights that he willingly gave up when he purchased his property.

There's a joke about two economists looking at a sports car on the dealership lot. One of them says, "I want that car." The other one says, "No you don't." If he really wanted that car, he would have purchased it already. But he likes his money in his pocket more than he likes the sports car on the dealership lot.

Rand Paul says, "I want my property rights." But really ... he doesn't.

The other reading of this story is that sometimes the free market poses a threat to the liberties and well-being of individual consumers like Senator Paul, and those interests can not be protected without some kind of restraints on the free market.
posted by compartment at 5:14 PM on November 6, 2017 [29 favorites]


Some of those they are harshly treating have been “milking” their country for years...

[files away knowledge that DJT will refer to a ruling class purge with implications of major armed conflict as "harsh treatment"]
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:14 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Don't libertarians like Paul love private local pseudo-governments that aren't bound by the same rules as real local governments? Freedom of contract and all that?
posted by Ralston McTodd at 5:16 PM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yes, the above Tax Policy Center numbers are WRONG and will be corrected. Disregard please.

Also, Robin Wright's The Saudi Royal Purge—with Trump’s Consent was published before the above tweets, but seemed to predict that they were coming and is highly recommended reading. Trump is all in the middle of this, having spoken to the king from Air Force One hours before the purge and pushing for them to list Aramco on a US stock exchange (this is something they wouldn't want to do because JASTA allows 9/11 victims to sue Saudi Arabia in US court, a measure Trump supported and attacked Obama for trying to stop). Prince Alwaleed, one of those arrested, bought the Plaza Hotel and a yacht from Trump and got into a Twitter war with him in 2015. And they're good customers:
As part of its lobbying efforts against the bill, Saudi Arabia spent more than a quarter of a million dollars at Trump’s new hotel in Washington—for lodging, catering and parking—the Wall Street Journal reported in June. The lobbying included bringing in military veterans to speak on the Hill against the JASTA legislation.
What I haven't fully been able to piece together yet is how this all relates to Neom, a proposed $500 billion megacity on the East coast of the Gulf of Aqaba, near the confluence of Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Israel, and Egypt that will have relaxed religious law, lots of robots, and intended to diversify the Saudi economy away from just oil while bolstering the Crown Prince's image. One of those arrested was refusing to invest in Neom. There's a rumor going around that the Crown Prince secretly visited Israel recently, Jared keeps flying back and forth to visit, chatting until 4am, and the rumors about Saudi Arabia inching towards recognizing Israel are crazy unsubstantiated rumors, but ones loud and frequent enough that people keep having to deny them. It would not at all surprise me if Jared thinks he can declare he made "peace in the middle east" by improving relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel and hope that we're all too stupid to realize that they weren't at war and that wasn't the peace he was supposed to be there making.

Anyway, that Trump would go so far so as to endorse the purge over multiple tweets is ludicrous and frightening.

All hail the orb 🔮
posted by zachlipton at 5:19 PM on November 6, 2017 [42 favorites]


HOA regulations that were originally developed in response to a perceived market demand for an orderly neighborhood with no pumpkin patches and no compost piles.
Growing pumpkins and recycling compostable waste in a HOA-managed gated community is almost UR-Republitarian. But if he starts driving to the local farmer's market in a car converted to use old fry oil, I'll have to be coaxed from an apocalypse bunker designed to thwart all manner of Lovecraftian beasts. Also, congrats to whichever person called it upthread that he had multiple ribs broken over a "good fences make good neighbors" style of disagreement.

I'm extremely alarmed over POTUS endorsing an illiberal purge. (Not that I expect the KSA to do anything lowercase liberal, but you know what I mean.) But I've also learned not to expect any level of decorum or dedication to American democratic values, so. This is the worst year to be forced to quit smoking and drinking.
posted by xyzzy at 5:28 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


I think libertarians like Rand Paul like living in compounds, and flouting the rules of those compounds. (Compare/contrast with libertarian militia guys, who like the compounds and the rules.) A gated community is the closest he was going to get to that dream, as long as he's pursuing a public-facing career.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:29 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hey everyone, Carter Page's testimony to the House Intelligence committee has been released. (That's a 243-page pdf, have so much fun!)

@emptywheel is tweeting highlights. It's weird as hell, complete with tales of how often he purchased food at Trump Tower eateries and something inexplicable about Michael Flynn having "a conversation during a vacation on the beaches of the Dominican Republic. And he did not bring a lawyer!

On a related note, nearly 75% of Republicans think the Trump campaign tried to coordinate with Russia. We're firmly in "what's wrong with collusion?" territory.

In particular, please enjoy his moon law on the 5th amendment.
posted by zachlipton at 5:30 PM on November 6, 2017 [19 favorites]


Are you sure that House Intelligence testimony pdf is legit? Pretty sure Swalwell's exchange with Page was lifted verbatim from an Abbott and Costello movie.
posted by klarck at 5:39 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


It's a bit mean to harass Rand over his 'compost' piles. what do you expect him to do with that never ending spout of bullshit in his face?
posted by adept256 at 5:40 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


In the transcript Gowdy comes off as a lot less sympathetic toward Page than I had expected and frankly seems just as confused and bewildered by him as everyone else.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:42 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


This Carter Page PDF is bonkers. I'm on page 9 and I already want to smoke a bowl.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:43 PM on November 6, 2017 [13 favorites]


I'm pretty sure the default response to Carter Page is, "that boy ain't right."
posted by chainlinkspiral at 5:43 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


This Carter Page PDF is bonkers. I'm on page 9 and I already want to smoke a bowl.

I've been wondering what to do with my evening to take my mind off of my innumerable woes. This sounds like just the ticket.
posted by elsietheeel at 5:52 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Galt's Mulch...
posted by Devonian at 5:53 PM on November 6, 2017 [54 favorites]



I've been wondering what to do with my evening to take my mind off of my innumerable woes.


prepare some snacks first. i just started... then realised i was definitely gonna need some snacks.
posted by halation at 5:54 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]




Oops:

[BREAKING: The Trump administration said Monday it needs more time to determine the fate of some 57,000 Hondurans living in the United States with provisional residency status, but it will end the program for a smaller group of immigrants from Nicaragua, giving them 14 months to leave the country.]
posted by Room 641-A at 5:59 PM on November 6, 2017


Galt's Mulch...

Flagged as fantastic.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 6:01 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


How about the Trump administration takes more time to rescue the hundreds of thousands of United States citizens currently without power and water in Puerto Rico?
posted by Sphinx at 6:02 PM on November 6, 2017 [22 favorites]


26-30 is Page playing a bizarro 5th amendment calliope
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:05 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm looking for investors in a new one-man show I'm producing: Andy Daly Reads The Page Transcripts.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:20 PM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


End of 52 top of 53, Page tells Goody that the dodgy dossier allegations against him influenced the election more than anything else.

This only makes sense to Carter Page. I'm actually having some feels for Trey Gowdy the deeper I get into this.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:21 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Redacted portion where Page mentions speaking to another law enforcement agency other than the FBI. That's either Mueller or the NY State Attorney General.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:22 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


I'm actually having some feels for Trey Gowdy the deeper I get into this.

Don't. This transcript makes it pretty clear he's actually a competent prosecutor and questioner, so what he's doing in public hearings, including 4 years of Benghazi bullshit, is KNOWINGLY running interference and generating grist to be recycled through the FOX News propaganda machine.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:24 PM on November 6, 2017 [35 favorites]


I'm looking for investors in a new one-man show I'm producing: Andy Daly Reads The Page Transcripts.

If we can make it Dalton Wilcox, Poet Laureate of the West, Reads the Page Transcripts then I'm all in.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:25 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


NYT, Republican Plan Would Raise Taxes on Millions
Nearly half of all middle-class families would pay more in taxes in 2026 than they would under current rules if the proposed House tax bill became law, and about one-third would pay more in 2018, according to a New York Times analysis, a striking finding for a bill promoted as a middle-class tax cut.

President Trump and congressional Republicans have pitched the plan unveiled last week as a tax cut for most Americans. But millions of middle-class families — particularly those with children — would see an immediate tax increase, averaging about $2,000. Among the hardest-hit under the plan would be some of the most vulnerable taxpayers: those with huge out-of-pocket medical expenses.

By 2026, 45 percent of middle-class families would pay more than what they would under the existing tax system.
I keep beating the "Paul Ryan is not the wonk everyone made him out to be" drum, but I'm just astonished at how stupidly bad these numbers are for him. It really shouldn't be hard to give away trillions of dollars and hand everyone in the middle class a token tax break so you can pretend it's not all going to the top 1%.
posted by zachlipton at 6:29 PM on November 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


As part of the 10 part Ken Burns documentary, slowly panning over sepia toned portraits.
posted by adept256 at 6:30 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


That Carter Page testimony is not searchable! Why?!?!
I don’t want to read the whole thing. Ugh.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 6:30 PM on November 6, 2017


That Carter Page testimony is not searchable! Why?!?!
Because someone would train a Markov generator on it and the internet would break in half.
posted by goHermGO at 6:32 PM on November 6, 2017 [27 favorites]


That Carter Page testimony is not searchable! Why?!?!
I don’t want to read the whole thing. Ugh.


Oh YOU DO. 71. He tells us he has Delta Sky Miles.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [33 favorites]


The Trump admin just revoked the temporary protected status for 2500 Nicaraguans who have been here almost 20 years. They have 14 months to leave.

Fuck this country. It has become so cruelly spiteful.
posted by Talez at 6:35 PM on November 6, 2017 [46 favorites]


Page: I don't remember how many times I was interviewed by the FBI in 2016 because I'm cautious and don't take notes for confidentiality reasons.

Gowdy: I'm cautious too, but I remember how many times I was interviewed by the FBI in 2016 because the answer is zero.


BUUUUURRRRRNNNN.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:39 PM on November 6, 2017 [122 favorites]


I tried a free ocr pdf->txt website. Freemium only allows 15 pages per hour.

Pastebin.

Someone else want to be the change?
posted by adept256 at 6:47 PM on November 6, 2017


So what did everyone first try to search for before they realized it was not searchable? I ctrl-Fed "Junior".

I tried Trump as a test. I figured it had to be in there.
Edit: fixed a typo.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 6:48 PM on November 6, 2017


Schiff: --who did you have discussions about working together with in a Russia-funded venture of some kind?
Page: I can't recall. I can't recall those specifics. Again--
Schiff: You can't recall having discussions over obtaining Russian funding for some project?
Page: No. No Russian--I mean, no--there were people--we were--I had broad discussions with. But, again, bear in mind the timing. The timing is essential, because this is December. And I've already have--you know, you talk about--and I think yourself and others have referred to this dark cloud, right. The dark cloud was darkest over myself.
Schiff: Dr. Page, I'm really not asking about dark clouds.

(I will run the thing through Acrobat and upload a searchable PDF if it results in vaguely usable OCR)
posted by zachlipton at 6:53 PM on November 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


I desperately, desperately, want to find out the roots of this dispute [between Rand Paul and his neighbor]

Someone on my Twitter feed was insinuating that Rand was desperately trying to squelch rumors that he and the neighbor are lovers.
posted by msalt at 6:56 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


Here's a searchable PDF (10MB PDF). The OCR isn't perfect, but it looks pretty decent.
posted by zachlipton at 6:59 PM on November 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


Thanks Zach! Now I'm gonna do a search for 'dark'... as in clouds.
posted by elsietheeel at 7:01 PM on November 6, 2017


63 hits for 'dodgy'
posted by theodolite at 7:02 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


Pages 67-70 (as flagged by Chris Geidner) are Page testifying that he told Sessions about his upcoming trip to Russia a couple days before he left. This is another example where Sessions testimony about no Russian contacts by the campaign does not appear to hold up.
posted by zachlipton at 7:15 PM on November 6, 2017 [15 favorites]




The Trump admin just revoked the temporary protected status for 2500 Nicaraguans who have been here almost 20 years. They have 14 months to leave.

Oh man, remember when I said a year ago that Trump had no more benevolent intention towards Nicaraguans than Mexicans? I sure wish my family did.
posted by corb at 7:22 PM on November 6, 2017 [39 favorites]


P. 22:

MR. GOWDY: All right. How about George Papadopoulos, did you have any communications with him during the course of the campaign?

MR. PAGE: I was included -- I had totally -- he was another member of our growing committee, and I saw him. I can't remember what -- which meetings exactly, but I did meet with -- he was in some of those group sessions that we had. And I was included on some emails with him, yes.

MR. GOWDY: Have you made those available to the committee?

MR. PAGE: I would assume, because it was on a large group, that -- I can. I can make that available. But I assume, since it's on a large group, you most likely would have received that from others already. But yeah.

MR. GOWDY: Let's assume we haven't.

MR. PAGE: I will provide that, yes.

Let's assume we haven't. Gowdy's a goddamned martini when he wants to be.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:26 PM on November 6, 2017 [10 favorites]


Did my best to OCR the PDF..

Here is the result.
posted by johnpowell at 7:26 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Page says something's "interesting" 12 times, when it rarely is.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:27 PM on November 6, 2017


I'm about halfway now and the distress he has over the dossier is sincere, but I think he also genuinely believes he hasn't done anything wrong.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:33 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


"The Washington Post-ABC News poll asked respondents how they'd vote in a redo of the 2016 election, and, if anything, Clinton seems to have lost more ground than Trump."

(ノಥ益ಥ)ノ ┻━┻

That's enough internet for today.
posted by greermahoney at 7:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [36 favorites]


Going back to the Franken 6-page letter to Sessions, is Sessions obliged to respond to Franken's questions, by the date requested and to the extent requested? What if he fails to do so? Or is this just an indirect means for Franken to make a public case against Sessions, of the "just asking questions" variety?
posted by Rumple at 7:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


MR. PAGE: -- in many other -- in many news articles, there had been false accusations about that, youknow, following all the dodgydossier allegations, but people mischaracterizing that and --
MR. SCHIFF: I may be misremembering it. Was this the speech, though, that was portrayed as condemning the United States policy for being hypocritical?
MR. PAGE: Mischaracterized. They picked out one --
MR. SCHIFF: Did you use the word "hypocritical" in your speech?
MR. PAGE: Can you please repeat your question?
MR. SCHIFF: Did you use the word "hypocritical" in your speech?
MR. PAGE: Can you say the full sentence?
MR. SCHIFF: Did you use the word "hypocritical" in your speech?
MR. PAGE: Not with respect to Russia...

posted by elsietheeel at 7:35 PM on November 6, 2017 [16 favorites]


(ノಥ益ಥ)ノ ┻━┻

You can't poll a redo of an election. The winner always gains more ground and the loser loses ground. People don't like to say they supported a loser which is essentially what you're doing by saying Clinton in the redo.
posted by Justinian at 7:37 PM on November 6, 2017 [42 favorites]


What's with the multiple [redacted] passports and aliases on Pages 206-7?
posted by Rumple at 7:40 PM on November 6, 2017


114-116. Page is currently homeless, couchsurfing, and living off savings.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:41 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


The second passport is his vintage "Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego" cereal box one, of course it's expired.
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:46 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


MR. SWALWELL: Well, Mr. Page, I guess I'm trying to understand, in 2016 you didn't have any sources of income other than passive investments, you were no longer affiliated with the campaign, and a month following the election you traveled over to Russia on your own dime. Is that correct?
MR. PAGE: That's correct. And, also, please bear in mind -- yeah.
MR. SWALWELL: Mr. Page --
MR. PAGE: Yeah.
MR. SWALWELL: -- Dr. Page, were you seeking business in Russia in
December 2016?
MR. PAGE: I was interested in business, yes, and also potentially--
MR. SWALWELL: What business were you seeking in December of 2016?
MR. PAGE: I can't recall anything specific. Again, I had a feeling that eventually --
MR. SWALWELL: Well, Dr. Page, surely you went over there with a plan, right? You didn't just go over there to walk around and to find a "now hiring" sign at the Red Square.
MR. PAGE: I've never -- I'm an entrepreneur, and so there's no "now hiring."

posted by theodolite at 7:51 PM on November 6, 2017 [45 favorites]


The Trump administration is secretly detaining a US citizen in Iraq and have refused to provide them access to legal counsel despite their repeated requests for such counsel to be provided. The ACLU has been attempting to gain access to this person.
By opposing the ACLU’s efforts in this case, the Trump administration is taking a very dangerous step: It is blocking an Americans citizen’s access to his own country’s courts. It is also undermining the bedrock guarantees of habeas corpus, which for centuries has served as the greatest check on unlawful government detentions. Now, we’re fighting to stop the government’s unconstitutional attempt to create a new rights-free zone.
posted by xyzzy at 7:53 PM on November 6, 2017 [57 favorites]


Search for Rosneft. You’ll find it. And another piece for the dossier falls in place.
posted by chris24 at 7:56 PM on November 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


The winner always gains more ground and the loser loses ground. People don't like to say they supported a loser

Yes, but aren't there yet more people that are tired of winning? So tired
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:02 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Carter Page's testimony is filled with bombshells — and supports key portions of the Steele dossier
The House Intelligence Committee on Monday released the full transcript of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page's testimony before the panel last week, portions of which support details in an explosive collection of memos outlining alleged collusion between the campaign and Moscow during the election.

Page revealed during his testimony that he met with both members of Russia's presidential administration and with the head of investor relations at the state-owned Russian oil giant Rosneft during his trip to Moscow last July.

He also congratulated members of the Trump campaign's foreign policy team on July 14 for their "excellent work" on the "Ukraine amendment" - a reference to the Trump campaign's decision to "intervene" to water down a proposed amendment to the GOP's Ukraine platform.

The original amendment proposed that the GOP commit to sending "lethal weapons" to the Ukrainian army to fend off Russian aggression. But it was ultimately altered to say "provide appropriate assistance" before it was included in the party's official platform. The dossier alleges that the campaign "agreed to sideline" the issue of Russia's invasion of Crimea and interference in eastern Ukraine in exchange for dirt on Hillary Clinton.
posted by chris24 at 8:14 PM on November 6, 2017 [46 favorites]


Here's a searchable PDF (10MB PDF). The OCR isn't perfect, but it looks pretty decent.
posted by zachlipton

Thank you zachlipton.
I tried my OCR program, but the document was too large.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 8:19 PM on November 6, 2017


Couldn’t happen to nicer guy, Corey.

@BySteveReilly: (USA Today)
Corey Lewandowski told me in March interview he didn't give Page an OK to travel to Moscow. Page testified he did, and he has the email. SCREENSHOTS OF TESTIMONY AND ARTICLE
posted by chris24 at 8:21 PM on November 6, 2017 [56 favorites]


This testimony is giving me sympathy flop sweat.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:30 PM on November 6, 2017 [9 favorites]


Page was introduced to the Trump campaign by NY State GOP Chairman Ed Cox after Page told him he wanted t get involved. Ed Cox is Richard Nixon's son-in-law. This is too goddamn weird.
posted by zachlipton at 8:31 PM on November 6, 2017 [51 favorites]


@HeerJeet:
ME: And then it turns out Nixon's son-in-law had planted the seeds of the new scandal....
PRODUCER: I fired you 3 weeks ago!
posted by chris24 at 8:42 PM on November 6, 2017 [60 favorites]


This testimony is giving me sympathy flop sweat.

That's by your standards. It's a freaking epic success by Carter Page standards.

Also, TIL that the House Intel Committee is full of comedic badasses. If only Trey Gowdy would use those powers for good! How many gallons of liquor do you think committee members chugged after that session?
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:50 PM on November 6, 2017 [4 favorites]


Now you're trying to tell me Carter Page has standards.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:53 PM on November 6, 2017


114-116. Page is currently homeless, couchsurfing, and living off savings.

Coming next year: a sitcom about a couple that finds Carter Page randomly living on their couch uninvited, and every time they try to get him to leave, he launches into an extended rant about how he's more persecuted than MLK and the dark clouds are after him. The pilot is just the homeowners trying to get him to do his dishes and pick up his underwear, but it devolves into hours of Marx Brothers comedy as his responses become increasingly evasive.

This should be an Alexandra Petri column at least.
posted by zachlipton at 8:53 PM on November 6, 2017 [17 favorites]


Page is hogging all the spotlight, I'm waiting for Cohen and Sater to notice and say "hold my beer, I'm gonna try something."
posted by jason_steakums at 8:59 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


@Rep. Eric Swalwell
That time Carter “Nostradamus” Page went to Moscow in Dec. 2016 for protection from the dossier...

The dossier was released in Jan. 2017.
posted by AwkwardPause at 9:07 PM on November 6, 2017 [31 favorites]


@DavidNakamura: This is third military base Potus has visited in four days on Asia trip, accompanied by generals. Imagine what this looks like in Pyongyang.
posted by zachlipton at 9:08 PM on November 6, 2017 [24 favorites]


Has Harvard offered Page a fellowship yet?
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:21 PM on November 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


On October 30, Paul Manafort was asked to confine himself to his place of residence. That request came from special counsel Robert Mueller. Deep down, he knew Mueller was right, but he also knew that someday, he would return to Russia. With nowhere else to go, he appeared at the home of his friend, Rick Gates. Sometime earlier that day, Mueller had indicted him, requesting that he never leave his home. Can two indicted men share house arrest without driving each other crazy?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:21 PM on November 6, 2017 [32 favorites]


OK. So I finally got back from Disneyland and started skimming Page's transcript.

JFC he's a dumb as a post.
posted by Talez at 9:21 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I really can't tell. Is he deliberately throwing himself under the bus or is he throwing the campaign under the bus or both? He's up there insinuating bad things but at the same time he's made it quite clear he's never talked to Trump.
posted by Talez at 9:23 PM on November 6, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Carter Page testimony reads like somebody dropped acid. I’m not sure if it was me or Carter Page.
Is he a lawyer? He is addressed as Doctor so he did go to college at some point right? He just seems so odd.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 9:32 PM on November 6, 2017 [6 favorites]


Carter Page: "Well, what happened was"

[fake]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Carter Page always was the worst Hawkman retcon.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:38 PM on November 6, 2017 [11 favorites]


So the House Intelligence Committee releasing the transcript so quickly is about letting the administration see what was discussed and to give other testifiers a chance to get on the same page, right? Am I mistaken to think the House investigation has been tainted since Day 1 because of Jason Chaffetz?
posted by bluecore at 9:42 PM on November 6, 2017 [5 favorites]


Trump space adviser: Blue Origin and SpaceX rockets aren’t really commercial
"Heavy-lift rockets are strategic national assets, like aircraft carriers," [executive secretary of the National Space Council, Scott] Pace said. "There are some people who have talked about buying heavy-lift as a service as opposed to owning and operating, in which case the government would, of course, have to continue to own the intellectual properties so it wasn't hostage to any one contractor. One could imagine this but, in general, building a heavy-lift rocket is no more 'commercial' than building an aircraft carrier with private contractors would be."
posted by XMLicious at 9:45 PM on November 6, 2017 [3 favorites]


He is addressed as Doctor so he did go to college at some point right?

Always possible that he's just a Time Lord.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:48 PM on November 6, 2017 [15 favorites]


MR. PAGE: Well man, come on, who're you gonna believe? Those guys, or, uh -- we dropped off the damn money --
MR. SCHIFF: We?
MR. PAGE: I... the royal we, you know, the editorial. I dropped off the money, exactly as per -- look, man I've got certain information, alright? Certain things have come to light -- and, ah, you know, has it ever occurred to you -- that, ah, instead of, ah, you know, running around, ah, ah, blaming me, given the nature of all this new shit -- you know, it -- it, it, this could be a, ah, a lot more, ah, ah, ah, complex -- I mean it's not just -- it might not be -- just such a simple, ah... you know?
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:03 PM on November 6, 2017 [25 favorites]


Carter Page says he's the biggest embarrassment to the campaign...

Sorry hon, but that "honor" goes to Trump.

And THAT'S how you do quotation marks.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:05 PM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Always possible that he's just a Time Lord.

He's clearly qualified to be a staff writer on DW.
posted by juiceCake at 10:08 PM on November 6, 2017


He's clearly qualified to be a staff writer on DW.
I'm thinking more Red Dwarf...
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:11 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


I'm thinking more Red Dwarf...

Does Page by chance have an H symbol on his forehead?
posted by Celsius1414 at 10:31 PM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


Carter Page is a doctor in the same sense that Dr Pepper is a doctor, in that they both received phds from the University of London and both were clearly sent from the future to ensorcell us and destroy civilization.
posted by supercrayon at 10:39 PM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


I think Dr. Carter Page needs to be added to this Wikipedia Page
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:50 PM on November 6, 2017 [2 favorites]


Can we have [fake] or [real] tags for these quotes ? I really can't tell anymore.
posted by Pendragon at 10:52 PM on November 6, 2017 [21 favorites]


Can we have [fake] or [real] tags for these quotes ? I really can't tell anymore.

An interesting corollary is that to the people in power, it doesn't matter what the actual words are anyway.
posted by maxwelton at 10:57 PM on November 6, 2017 [8 favorites]


It's a real doctorate. [Real.] The School of Oriental and African Studies is one of those British colonial spawning grounds of yore. Nowadays it might actually be a shade too liberal for a fellow like Page, though. [Speculation.]

The coat of arms has to be seen to be believed, though. [Back to real.]
posted by dhartung at 11:03 PM on November 6, 2017 [7 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Trump’s attempts to console the nation are almost always exactly wrong
One of the unpleasant but honorable tasks of the presidency is to try to put words to tragedy, to bind up the nation’s wounds and tend to the widow and the orphan. (Those are also a president’s words; not Trump’s, though.) Trump so far seems capable of only two types of response: racially tinged name-calling and a sort of woolly pablum where he speaks about love and light and prayer and keeps thinking that the sentence on the teleprompter is over before it has in fact ended. (“Melania and I are praying for every American who has been hurt, wounded, or lost . . . the ones they love so dearly.”)

To see a president so clearly reconciled to mass murder as a routine occurrence that the speeches are barely differentiated feels like salt in the wound. It is bad enough to hear Congress (on one side of the aisle, at least) gathering to say that there is Nothing That Can Be Done About Evil in the World. But Trump’s usual lack of nuance strips away pretense from many things we Say for the Sake of Saying Them: He cannot even manage to say them right.
Her supply of evens is running low.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:34 PM on November 6, 2017 [39 favorites]


Last year someone here on MeFi who has friends at his alma mater said they would try to get a copy of his dissertation, but nothing came of it. I was sad.
posted by xyzzy at 11:49 PM on November 6, 2017


You can't access it, but C-Pizzle's doctoral dissertation was: The influence of semiperipheral powers on the balance between capitalism and socialism in Central Asia : an analysis of Russias impact on governance and the regional energy sector 1987-2007 poop this is in no way relevant to anything going on now right lol

Side note: so demoralised. How does this chucklefuck have a completed phd and I'm over here trying desperately to finish a masters thesis, who's the chucklefuck now? *looks in mirror, cries, slowly points at self*
posted by supercrayon at 12:11 AM on November 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


PROTIP: The transcript includes -- at the beginning -- two letters Page wrote in response to the committee. FEEL FREE TO SKIP THEM if they interrupt the flow of getting into the testimony. They're full of crazy.
posted by mikelieman at 12:13 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump and Moon are doing a press conference in South Korea. Moon is talking up efforts for a peaceful resolution to the North Korea situation, along with the standard boilerplate about our bilateral alliance and economic cooperation. Trump isn't exactly into that, threatening "the full range of our unmatched military capabilities if need may be." Whatever progress he claims we're making on North Korea, he did not specify. He wants a better trade deal with South Korea because this one was "frankly, quite unsuccessful and not very good for the United States."

There's some serious tension here as President Moon is decidedly not promising to buy military hardware from us and President Trump boldly insists "South Korea will be ordering billions of dollars of that equipment," equipment he insists is the best in the world.

Trump is asked by NBC's Ali Vitali if there should be extreme vetting for people trying to buy a gun. He says we should let time go by before talking about that, but he'll answer it anyway. Trump says that if we did that, there would have been no difference three days ago, but the "very brave person" who shot him wouldn't have had a gun. He says that if Willeford (not mentioned by name) didn't have a gun, there would have been hundreds dead instead.
posted by zachlipton at 12:47 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Hundreds dead? ... How? Is Trump just stupid?

Answer: yes.
posted by Justinian at 12:50 AM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


but the "very brave person" who shot him wouldn't have had a gun

Uh... didn't the shooter commit suicide?
posted by PenDevil at 12:53 AM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


The other guy shot him then the finished himself off with a headshot.
posted by Justinian at 1:02 AM on November 7, 2017


The shooter left the church, was shot twice by Willeford outside, and took off down the road. He crashed his car and committed suicide.

It is indeed not really possible to reconcile those facts with Trump's claims, no.
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 AM on November 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


Previously MeFi, many threads ago, I linked to the Ferret's regular "shit be cray" posts on Democratic Underground, summarising recent events in Trumpland. The Ferret now also blogs same at Shower Cap, "chronicling the Trump Era because future generations are gonna think we made this shit up".

For those that like their news summaries dipped in snark.
posted by valetta at 1:22 AM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


thedailybeast: Caputo meets the Streisand effect.

Who's Caputo? Check the washington post's trump-russia connection tool.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:17 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Damn. I thought I might be able to grab a copy of Page's thesis, working for a university and all as I do, but apparently it hasn't been digitized and it's reference-only, meaning I'd have to physically go to the SOAS library and read it there. (Assuming I could even get in, of course.)

I love you guys, but I'm not currently in a position to schlep to London and eat 453 pages' worth of scan-to-PDF fees.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:46 AM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


But...? The very brave person would surely have been revealed to be very brave and gunworthy in the extreme vetting process, right? Or else... wait, is this whole extreme vetting thing somehow... inaccurate? Imprecise? But it's extreme vetting.
posted by Don Pepino at 3:16 AM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Peter Beinart feels the need to tell us that Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

Tl;dr; liberal criticism hurts conservatives' feelings.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:36 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Am I mistaken to think the House investigation has been tainted since Day 1 because of Jason Chaffetz?

You mean Devin Nunes. (Chaffetz was on the House Oversight Committee then resigned rather than do his job. Nunes chairs the Intelligence Committee but was caught leaking classified info fed to him by the White House in an effort to support Trump's "wire tapp" story, then recused himself, then unrecused himself...)

Anyway I think the Democrats on Intelligence (like the awesome Adam Schiff and Eric Swalwell) want as much of the testimony to be public as possible. A damning conclusion against Trump will be more readily accepted bhy the public if the committee is able to show its work. I think the pressure to release Page's testimony was probably coming from the good guys.
posted by OnceUponATime at 3:38 AM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Peter Beinart feels the need to tell us that Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

Wow. I tried to read it, but this is a hard stop for me: "Conservatives need liberals to stop abusing their cultural power. Although conservatives dominate America’s elected offices, liberals wield the greater power to stigmatize." I have no words to describe how pathetic a complaint this is.
posted by Room 101 at 3:44 AM on November 7, 2017 [88 favorites]


Russia certainly acted like Page was just a guy on a personal trip during his July 2016 trip.

@McFaul (former US ambassador to Russia)
The Russian govt. treated Carter Page like a major VIP. He spoke at NES graduation. The last American given that honor was Obama in 2009.
posted by chris24 at 3:46 AM on November 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


I remember when Dr Mario gave the commencement speech.
posted by adept256 at 3:52 AM on November 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Well, in 2013 the commencement speaker was Ernesto Zedillo, President of Mexico from 1994 to 2000.

So Obama, Zedillo, Page. One of these things is not like the other.
posted by chris24 at 3:55 AM on November 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


Although conservatives control all the actual power and are working away furiously to exploit and take away the rights of anyone who’s not a white dude, erode civil liberties, start a potential nuclear confrontation, destroy the entire environment like captain planet villians, bring about a white-nationalist gilead, undermine our democracy with the help of a hostile foreign power, challenge epistemological reality in such a way that half the population live in an unbreakable bubble of hyperreality, and elect yet another incompetent moron to drive our country into a ditch from which we may not recover...

liberals control the power to make us feel bad sometimes, and honestly isn’t that the real power?
posted by supercrayon at 3:57 AM on November 7, 2017 [77 favorites]


Dr Mario, curiously enough, also got his degree at the School of Oriental and African Studies.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:57 AM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Holy shit, that Beinart article is mendacious as fuck, apart from the general "Intent: It's Fucking Magical!" thesis. Some examples:

You may genuinely believe that Georgia can’t afford to expand Medicaid.

Medicaid expansion is free money from the federal government. Also, the "belief" has thus far been proven 100% false, as the outcomes from Medicaid expansion have thus far been universally positive. It's the climate change argument all over again.

Conservatives need liberals to stop abusing their cultural power. Although conservatives dominate America’s elected offices, liberals wield the greater power to stigmatize.

Literally everyone who is not a Christian, straight, cisgender, white male laughs bitterly while pointing to all of the ways they are discriminated against by their fellow citizens on top of government discrimination. (On preview, what Room 101 said)

He probably would not have been forced out for donating to, say, a campaign to eliminate the Pledge of Allegiance from California’s schools.

The Pledge is not required by law, and is largely ignored in CA anyway.

But it’s logical to suspect that liberals, seeking to make America ever less racist, might go from uprooting statues of the generals who fought to defend slavery to challenging the uncritical veneration of the slaveholders who founded America.

GASP! Challenging the uncritical veneration of slaveholders? How dare they engage in such a dastardly plot to educate citizens on the facts about the founders of their country rather than allow them to be worshipped for building a country on the backs of others! What's next, portraying American leaders who forced Native Americans off their land and massacred them essentially for sport as genocidal bigots instead of noble patrons of Manifest Destiny taking the land that GOD gave them? Heavens forfend!
posted by zombieflanders at 3:59 AM on November 7, 2017 [55 favorites]


I take back the part about "the good guys" wanting to release the transcript. The politico story says Page himself demanded that the transcript be released.
posted by OnceUponATime at 4:02 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


uncritical veneration

I'm shocked that a "liberal" cheerleader for the Iraq war would advocate for uncritical veneration of authority figures.
posted by chris24 at 4:05 AM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Peter Beinart feels the need to tell us that Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

It's cool Mr Beinart I've held those two words synonymous for thirty-odd years now and none of the Republicans have done anything to disrupt the association.
posted by winna at 4:09 AM on November 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

It also means traitor!
posted by Artw at 4:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [53 favorites]


Further down that @McFaul thread there's a link to @A_G_Dugin (Putin's philospher) tweeting a link to the video of Page giving the lecture. Link is to the tweet, not the video page which may benefit from some anonymising before visiting.
posted by Buntix at 4:15 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


I kind of wonder if Page is trying to run interference for himself by being sketchy as all hell. If he's trying to make any existing recordings/emails/documentation featuring him totally unreliable. Reading that transcript, I wouldn't put it past him to have told the Russians anything they wanted to hear, true or not.

But then I remember this is a guy whose idea of forethought and legal prudence is casually getting rolled on live TV by Chris Hayes.
posted by saturday_morning at 4:15 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


I’m fascinated by the conceptual incoherence in Beinart’s article. It’s some sort of Schrodinger’s Intent thought exercise: if I’m a salesman who alienates customers and fails to sell widgets (my example, not his) then results matter, not intentions. If I’m a Republican politician voting in favor of restrictive voter ID laws, however, intent matters, not results. And that’s without addressing at all the way “traditional morality” is thrown around as though it’s universally defined and self-evidently good, while suggesting that we liberals have some sort of alien code of values that simply cannot be understood. Am I misunderstanding conservatism as represented in the article? It sure sounds more like “intent for me and outcome for thee” than anything else, a plea for conservatives to be judged by what they say is in their hearts, rather than by what their actions show to be in their hearts.
posted by wintermind at 4:22 AM on November 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


GASP! Challenging the uncritical veneration of slaveholders? How dare they engage in such a dastardly plot to educate citizens on the facts about the founders of their country rather than allow them to be worshipped for building a country on the backs of others!

The desire for uncritical veneration of historical figures is pure, uncut authoritarianism.
posted by kewb at 4:24 AM on November 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


Yep, it's literally Dear Leader shit.
posted by chris24 at 4:25 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Because someone would train a Markov generator on it and the internet would break in half.

PAGING DR. CORTEX MARKOV CHAINEY AND DR. STRONG. CODE ORANGE. CODE SILVER. WEAPONIZED NEUROLINGUISTIC MEMETIC MATERIAL DETECTED. ALL STAFF, PLEASE STAND BY FOR EXTERNAL TRIAGE INSTRUCTIONS.
posted by loquacious at 4:26 AM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


When is Carter Page going to give the goods on that Russian tweet with cheeseburgers in it
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:27 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Carter needs to stop trying to make "Dodgy Dossier" happen.
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:41 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


It already happened in the 00s. Find a new name.
posted by Artw at 4:42 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Hm, so I see. Then again, it happened in Europe, and as we all know, True Americans reject things from over there.
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:46 AM on November 7, 2017


Trump isn't the only lying fake billionaire in the administration.

Forbes: The Case of Wilbur Ross' Phantom $2 Billion
Fresh off a tour through Thailand, Laos and China, United States Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross Jr. picked up the phone on a Sunday afternoon in October to discuss something deeply personal: how much money he has. A year earlier, Forbes had listed his net worth at $2.9 billion on The Forbes 400, a number Ross claimed was far too low: He maintained he was closer to $3.7 billion. Now, after examining the financial-disclosure forms he filed after his nomination to President Donald Trump's Cabinet, which showed less than $700 million in assets, Forbes was intent on removing him entirely.

Ross protested, citing trusts for his family that he said he did not have to disclose in federal filings. "You're apparently not counting those, which are more than $2 billion," he said. When asked for documentation, the 79-year-old demurred, citing "privacy issues." Told that Forbes nonetheless planned to remove him from the list for the first time in 13 years, he responded: "As long as you explain that the reason is that assets were put into trust, I'm fine with that." And when did he make the transfer that allowed him to not disclose over $2 billion? "Between the election and the nomination."

So began the mystery of Wilbur Ross' missing $2 billion. And after one month of digging, Forbes is confident it has found the answer: That money never existed. It seems clear that Ross lied to us, the latest in an apparent sequence of fibs, exaggerations, omissions, fabrications and whoppers that have been going on with Forbes since 2004. In addition to just padding his ego, Ross' machinations helped bolster his standing in a way that translated into business opportunities. And based on our interviews with ten former employees at Ross' private equity firm, WL Ross & Co., who all confirmed parts of the same story line, his penchant for misleading extended to colleagues and investors, resulting in millions of dollars in fines, tens of millions refunded to backers and numerous lawsuits. Additionally, according to six U.S. senators, Ross failed to initially mention 19 suits in response to a questionnaire during his confirmation process.

Nearly a week before this article went to press, both Ross and his team at the Commerce Department were sent a detailed list of questions. "Secretary Ross has filed all required disclosures in accordance with the law and in consultation with both legal counsel and ethics officials at the Department of Commerce and Office of Government Ethics. As we have said before, any misunderstanding from your previous conversation with Secretary Ross is unfortunate." They declined to provide further answers on the record.

But Ross' questionable assertions to Forbes, combined with a recent controversy about a multimillion-dollar stake in a shipping company that does big business with close associates of Vladimir Putin, paint a clearer picture of the commerce secretary's tactics. His slippery statements during his confirmation hearings--"I intend to be quite scrupulous about recusal and any topic where there is the slightest scintilla of doubt"--came as no surprise to those who have known Ross for decades.

"Wilbur doesn't have an issue with bending the truth," says David Wax, who worked alongside Ross for 25 years and served as the No. 3 person in his firm. Another former colleague, who requested anonymity, was less circumspect: "He's lied to a lot of people."
posted by chris24 at 4:51 AM on November 7, 2017 [76 favorites]


According to the NY Times:
The violent altercation last week that left Senator Rand Paul nursing bruised lungs and broken ribs began over a landscaping dispute between the senator and his longtime next-door neighbor, according to neighbors and three Kentucky Republicans familiar with what transpired.

The precise provenance of the dispute was still a matter of disagreement on Monday.
So yeah. Shocking twist: there's completely apolitical reasons someone might have for assaulting Rand Paul. Funny a topic as it might be to speculate on, we can at least dispense with the pearl clutching over how this represents some sort of politically-motivated act of violence.
posted by tocts at 5:00 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


So why would Page want the transcript released? Does he think he's covered for his bosses and therefore gets a cookie? Is this like some way of evading polonium poisoning? I don't get it. I once read a transcript of my court appearance (as a lawyer) and it was deeply embarrassing. Like, you think you're Ms. Smart Person, and then you look at it and it's like OMG the verb tenses don't even agree.
posted by angrycat at 5:02 AM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


So why would Page want the transcript released?

He's like Trump, there's no such thing as bad publicity. People are talking about him, he's happy.
posted by chris24 at 5:04 AM on November 7, 2017


Metafilter: Like, you think you're Ms. Smart Person, and then you look at it and it's like OMG the verb tenses don't even agree.
posted by Melismata at 5:09 AM on November 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


We're now the only climate change deniers in the world.

@ArthurWyns
BREAKING news at #COP23 #Syria just announced it will sign #ParisAgreement , leaving the #US isolated in the denial camp @ClimateTracking
posted by chris24 at 5:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [59 favorites]


Lying about your net worth in order to make business deals? How very Trumpian. All along we thought Trumpism was a political movement that combined racism with economic populism. Turns out it is really a description of dodgy old financiers who inflate their business acumen in order to get more business.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:19 AM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


I remember a trillion trump-years ago during the debates wishing that Hillary would make a strategy of referring to Trump as a millionaire until he exploded.
posted by adept256 at 5:25 AM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Am I misunderstanding conservatism as represented in the article? It sure sounds more like “intent for me and outcome for thee”

I read the point of the article as more like: in conservatism, there are people with good intent (or not actually trying to be bigots, though some class-based policies may have disparate impact) and ones with bad intent (Trumpian racists who want minorities to Know Their Place) - and that treating the former like the latter tends to make the former less able to recognize the latter, because the word has gotten muddled definitionally. If that is indeed the point, I think it’s accurate - there were a lot of people (*cough* some of my goddamned family not that I am bitter *cough*) who weren’t very well informed during the campaign and when they heard “Trump is a racist” did the “oh, they say that about every Republican” even though Trump is literally a racist out of like fucking Central Casting.
posted by corb at 5:38 AM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


NBC/WSJ Poll: In ‘Trump Counties,’ More Say U.S. Is Worse Off Than Better Off
One year after Donald Trump’s shocking election upset, many Americans who live in the key counties that propelled him to victory remain unconvinced that the country is better off now that he’s in the White House, a new poll from NBC News and The Wall Street Journal shows.

The poll, which sampled residents of 438 counties that either flipped from voting Democratic in the 2012 presidential election to Republican in 2016, or saw a significant surge for Trump last year, found that a third — 32 percent — believe the country is better off now than it was before Trump became president.

But a plurality — 41 percent — say the country is worse off now than it was when Trump became commander in chief. An additional 26 percent say the state of the nation has remained about the same.

And overall, slightly more than half — 53 percent — say they do not think Trump has a clear agenda on how to address the major issues facing the country.

These respondents view Trump more positively than Americans at large, with 48 percent giving him a positive job approval rating and 50 percent rating him negatively. That’s compared to 38 percent who approved of Trump’s job performance and 58 percent who disapproved in a national NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll last month.

(It's worth noting that the "Trump counties" sample is whiter, more rural, less educated and older than the nation as a whole. Trump won these counties by a margin of 57 percent to 37 percent in 2016.)
posted by chris24 at 5:41 AM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

It sure as fuck ain't an antonym.
posted by srboisvert at 5:43 AM on November 7, 2017 [91 favorites]


Although conservatives dominate America’s elected offices, liberals wield the greater power to stigmatize.

Which they're always wielding mercilessly to win statehouses, congressional seats, and presidencies, prop up giant propaganda outlets, and formulate obstructionist procedural strategies, definitely.
posted by Rykey at 5:44 AM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


It's a real doctorate. [Real.] The School of Oriental and African Studies is one of those British colonial spawning grounds of yore. Nowadays it might actually be a shade too liberal for a fellow like Page, though. [Speculation.]

The coat of arms has to be seen to be believed, though. [Back to real.]


That seems like the most spy-recruitingest school this side of a le Carre novel!
posted by jason_steakums at 5:48 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


That seems like the most spy-recruitingest school this side of a le Carre novel!

Oxford?
btw the new Le Carre is awesome and has the old crew in it
posted by thelonius at 5:53 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Conservatives need liberals to stop abusing their cultural power. Although conservatives dominate America’s elected offices, liberals wield the greater power to stigmatize.

Maybe if you guys hadn't spent the last forty years meticulously destroying your own credibility on everything even remotely related to morality, you wouldn't have this problem.
posted by Mayor West at 5:55 AM on November 7, 2017 [51 favorites]


Thank you for the thoughtful reply, corb. I still find it difficult to reconcile with what I thought I understood to be the conservative idea that what you do matters more than what you say, but I'm trying to understand where folks who think differently than me are coming from. Certainly, my own thoughts about the world contain some inconsistencies.
posted by wintermind at 5:55 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Perhaps its that I've seen the public displays of grief, remorse, and mourning so often now that what once seemed reverent or at least like an attempt at reverence now seems trite and worn out. Perhaps its that this last mass shooting happened close enough to where I live that I'm seeing it up close and personal for the first time. I'm not sure.

But I do know that seeing the flags at half staff doesn't seem respectful, it seems like a slap in the face.

I do know that hearing the oh so pious state and federal officials proclaiming in solemn tones that they will never forget the dead and that their "thoughts and prayers" are with the survivors is so revolting it makes me feel physically ill.

The entire show is nothing more than a lie. It is mere political kayfabe, and not even very well executed, though again perhaps it is the repetition that makes it seem so transparent rather than the skill, or lack thereof, on the part of the actors.

The gun control debate in America is over, it ended on December 14, 2012 when Adam Lanza murdered twenty school children at Sandy Hook Elementary (to say nothing of his eight adult victims) and the nation, as a whole, did exactly jack shit.

If twenty dead elementary school kids won't even shake, much less end, the NRA's possession of supreme political power in the USA then it is absurd to imagine that twenty six dead white churchgoers will make any difference at all.

The NRA won and the rest of us, as Tom Tomorrow observed, must pay the price for their victory. Over, and over, and over without end. We march ourselves up to the alter the NRA has erected to their distortion of the 2nd Amendment and we engage in ritual mass human sacrifice to their idol.

Which makes the false displays of grief, mourning, and pious proclamations of "thoughts and prayers" utterly vile and revolting to me. As I passed the flags at half staff yesterday I felt a combination of rage and despair so intense I almost vomited. They seemed then, and still seem today, to be a giant upraised middle finger to us.

I'd appreciate some honesty for a change.

Rather than the usual declarations that the latest mass shooting is a tragedy [1] and the empty piety of ritually offering their "thoughts and prayers" to the victims and the survivors, how about the Republicans offer some sincerity for a change? How about they just admit outright that they don't give a shit about the dead, that they consider the dead to be an acceptable price for implementing the will of the NRA, and that anyone who doesn't like it can go fuck themselves?

It wouldn't be nice, but at least it'd be honest.

The Republican President, who just a few months ago ended the Obama era policy of prohibiting severely mentally ill people from buying firearms, informed the nation that guns weren't the problem, mental illness was the problem. Of course, if the shooter had been brown or a Muslim the Republican President would have been frothing at the mouth about how it proved his Muslim immigration ban was right and the need for his wall, but since the shooter was a white Christian man he was merely mentally ill and therefore in need of sympathy. It also goes without saying that the Republican President has been supporting efforts to end public mental health treatment.

On NPR the interviewer managed to track down a high school classmate of the shooter, who declared that he (the classmate) carries a gun everywhere because "you can't trust anyone", and no one suggested that maybe if carrying guns was illegal it'd be really damn easy to spot someone on their way to try a mass shooting.

The entire affair seems tawdry at best, and revoltingly self serving at worst.

And, of course, the Republican President has made things worse, as is his wont, by claiming that gun control would have resulted in hundreds of deaths in the latest shooting rather than the mere twenty six who were shot.

The myth of the "good guy with a gun", always total bullshit, is made more obviously a lie by the fact that a "good guy with a gun" was present at the church and the mass shooting still killed twenty six people.

So how about some honesty for a change? It'd be different at least.

How about we erect a giant NRA flag instead of lowering the flags to half staff after a mass shooting, just to declare what America really believes in.

How about the politicians take a page out of the Republican President's book and tell us that they like people who don't get shot?

How about, instead of Megyn Fucking Kelly telling us with tears in her eyes that the latest mass shooting will not shake America's resolve, she just invites an NRA spokesperson on to tell us all about the newest guns we can buy?

Because I, for one, am utterly sick and tired of the hypocritical bullshit we indulge in as a collective national ritual every few months when one of our daily mass shootings reaches a sufficient number of victims that the Republicans have to pretend to give a shit. I want them to stop pretending. They don't give a shit and their pretense that they do is sickening.

[1] As if it were some sort of natural disaster, an inevitable and unavoidable act of an uncaring universe like an earthquake or a tornado rather than the entirely preventable and human produced crime it truly is.
posted by sotonohito at 6:13 AM on November 7, 2017 [131 favorites]


Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

Oh goodie. More bullshit from Nazi apologists complaining that despite the Nazis having all the power we evil meanie liberals really need to stop being so unpleasant towards the asshole racists kicking the shit out of every minority they can. It hurts their poor little conservative feelings when we're honest.

Republican **IS** a synonym for racist. It has been since 1968. Anyone who votes Republican is, at the very least, totally fine with voting for racists to get whatever else they think they'll get out of a Republican in office. Maybe random Republican voter isn't personally a member of the KKK, but they'll vote for Klansman so they can have lower taxes or whatever, so fuck 'em.

Republicans are racist. Period. End of statement. It's the truth, and if that truth hurts them then too damn bad. I'm done with the crap telling us meanie liberals that we've go to be nicer to the poor abused Republicans.

They've got 100% of the political power in the USA right now, playing victim at this point is almost, but not quite, as repugnant as the vile displays of faux remorse over the latest mass shooting.
posted by sotonohito at 6:22 AM on November 7, 2017 [71 favorites]


Peter Beinart feels the need to tell us that Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

maybe peter beinart should spend less time policing other peoples' use of language and worrying more about why he has so much in common with all those racists.
posted by logicpunk at 6:23 AM on November 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


WNYC is soliciting calls from owners of AR-15s and why they love their guns and you fuckers it's the radio off again.

I swear, every two weeks or so I go FUCK NPR in a rage it's not a healthy dynamic
posted by angrycat at 6:25 AM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


From the Forbes link above:
"I just spoke to Ross," the reporter wrote. "He's one of the easiest new guys I've put on [The Forbes 400] in a while. Very low-key, said he didn't really want to be on, but at the same time wasn't going to fight success. He says he doesn't want to juice up his numbers at all."

"I told him we're going to start him at $1 billion," added the reporter, who no longer works at Forbes . "And he said 'Yep, fine, thank you.' "
Well, bullshit. BULLSHIIIIIIT. This is exactly how they handled Trump. It's a self-reporting list. To their credit, after Trump's ludicrously inflated self-worth became apparent even to the sycophants at Forbes after several years, he was banned from the list. SUCH BULLSHIT
posted by TWinbrook8 at 6:29 AM on November 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Republican Is Not a Synonym for Racist

And yet this had to be pointed out in the title.
posted by Mayor West at 6:29 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Are You Actively Racist?: A Self-Assessment
Question 1:
Do you support policies and/or actions that have racist outcomes?

Yes (1 point)
No (0 points)

Results:___

1 point: Sorry, you're racist and you actively make racism worse
0 points: Yay, you're not actively racists but if you're white (especially white male) you probably receive some benefits from and contribute to the systematic oppression of people based on race that we call racism.
posted by VTX at 6:32 AM on November 7, 2017 [43 favorites]


Hey non-racist Republicans, as the kids say, come get your boys.

I mean, I know conservatives who are not overtly racist. They are no longer registered Republicans and don't identify as Republicans any more. So that's one option. Another option is to spend 100% less time whining about someone thinking you might be racist on the internet and 100% more time actively fighting racism in the Republican party. (Sound like a Sisyphean task? Well, that might tell you something.)
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:42 AM on November 7, 2017 [58 favorites]


SLNYT: What explains US mass shootings?

Tldr: guns. Lots of guns.
posted by supercrayon at 6:42 AM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Tldr: guns. Lots of guns.

I hate to agree at all with "...people kill people", but the country being stocked like a trout stream with violent assholes also doesn't help.
posted by thelonius at 6:53 AM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


The Intercept: CIA Director Met Advocate of Disputed DNC Hack Theory — at Trump’s Request
In an interview with The Intercept, Binney said Pompeo told him that President Donald Trump had urged the CIA director to meet with Binney to discuss his assessment that the DNC data theft was an inside job. During their hour-long meeting at CIA headquarters, Pompeo said Trump told him that if Pompeo “want[ed] to know the facts, he should talk to me,” Binney said.

The US is months away from Alex Jones being appointed to the NSC.
posted by PenDevil at 6:58 AM on November 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


compartment: Rand Paul lives in a gated community. The "neighborhood regulations" are presumably HOA regulations. HOA regulations that he would have been aware of when he purchased the property. HOA regulations that were originally developed in response to a perceived market demand for an orderly neighborhood with no pumpkin patches and no compost piles.

The "stronger property rights than exist in America" are rights that he willingly gave up when he purchased his property.


This argument is based on the assumption that Rand Paul believed that the HOA regulations were valid and enforceable. Laws are only binding if they're enforced.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:03 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Tldr: guns. Lots of guns.

Which is something I'd like to learn more about (and I believe a Freakonomics podcast episode touched on): let's say strict gun control were implemented in the US (something I fully support, BTW). What happens to all the zillion guns already in everybody's hands? How does confiscating or destroying them all take shape politically and practically? Given that it would be the ultimate nightmare the second amendment crowd has predicted forever ("They're coming for our guns!"), it seems like it would spark a bloodbath, or at least upend a lot of political careers.
posted by Rykey at 7:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


playing victim at this point constantly
posted by juiceCake at 7:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Rykey: How does confiscating or destroying them all take shape politically and practically?

A buyback program?
posted by dhruva at 7:17 AM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


I very much appreciated that NBC's Ali Vitali asked the president if he thought extreme vetting for gun owners was warranted. It allowed him the opportunity to put out the NRA talking point that extreme vetting might have made it worse by making it harder for the good Samaritan with the gun to stop the massacre.

Ignoring, for the moment, the illogic behind his position - I REALLY REALLY REALLY wish someone would follow up by asking why he doesn't apply the same calculus to the extreme vetting of immigrants and banning of refugees. Someone he is currently keeping out of the country could literally be essential to saving all of us, and they might be denied that opportunity because of his "vetting"

*I know that its both fruitless to argue with irrational beings AND that immigrants and refugees have intrinsic value as human beings beyond their measurable/financial contributions.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 7:17 AM on November 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Getting on the billionaires list when you've only a multi millionaire is the ultimate fake it til you make it.

How about we ban all semi-automatics and start a campaign to "good guys" to turn their AR-15s in? Could we not just start with that? You can keep your pistols and your hunting rifles and shotguns, just the semi-automatics. Sure the NRA would kick and scream but I think we could make a good case that no one needs them, they are just fun to shoot and collectible.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:23 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


A buyback program?

I thought of that too, but given what's already gotten right-wingers onto the street, I can't imagine a buyback would be without big problems. We've had thirty years of whipping people into hysteria over their god-given right to own guns—ramped way up since 2008—and lots of local police forces and state legislatures are filled with gun lovers.
posted by Rykey at 7:31 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


sotonohito: Oh goodie. More bullshit from Nazi apologists complaining that despite the Nazis having all the power we evil meanie liberals really need to stop being so unpleasant towards the asshole racists kicking the shit out of every minority they can. It hurts their poor little conservative feelings when we're honest.

Can we maybe not refer to Jewish people who said some shit we disagree with as Nazi apologists without some actual evidence beyond your own personal outraged hyperbole to back up that assertion?

I realize you're probably not trying to sound antisemitic but you do.
posted by zarq at 7:31 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rykey: I can't imagine a buyback would be without big problems.

You'd probably need a really good incentive (more than money) then. I propose free health insurance for the gun-owner's family as a trade as long as they are willing to do the gun return publicly.
posted by dhruva at 7:36 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Gun Control in Australia, Updated (FactCheck.org, Oct. 4, 2017, updated Oct. 6, 2017)
In 1996, Australia passed the National Firearms Agreement after a mass shooting in Tasmania in April of that year. In that incident, a 28-year-old man, armed with a semi-automatic rifle, shot and killed 35 people, and injured 18 others, in what was known as the Port Arthur Massacre.

Under the 1996 law, Australia banned certain semi-automatic, self-loading rifles and shotguns, and imposed stricter licensing and registration requirements. It also instituted a mandatory buyback program for firearms banned by the 1996 law.

During the buyback program, Australians sold 640,000 prohibited firearms to the government, and voluntarily surrendered about 60,000 non-prohibited firearms. In all, more than 700,000 weapons were surrendered, according to a Library of Congress report on Australian gun policy. One study says that the program reduced the number of guns in private hands by 20 percent.

In 2002, Australia further tightened gun laws, restricting the caliber, barrel length and capacity for sport shooting handguns.

Since 1996, the number and rate of homicides — defined as murder and manslaughter — has fallen. Below is the chart that appeared in our 2009 Ask FactCheck article, showing a 20 percent decline in homicides from 1996 to 2007.
Emphasis mine, because Australia got its shit together TWO DECADES AGO, in reaction to a mass shooting.

And here in the US, we have two major mass shootings in just over a month and lawmakers are still playing the "if there were only something we could do!" card.

Yes, the number of homicides in 1999, 1997, 2000 and 2003 were higher than in 1996, the numbers have dropped since 2002, when there was another mass shooting, which lead to another restriction on the types of guns available.

Did Gun Control Stop Mass Shootings in Australia? The Latest Research Says Yes—Probably. (Will Oremus for Slate, Oct. 3, 2017)
The precise effects of those measures can never be fully understood because we can’t study the counterfactual scenario in which no such laws were passed.

Still, the past five years have brought some additional clarity. And one core fact has remained strikingly unchanged: In the 18 years before Port Arthur, Australia witnessed 13 mass shootings, defined as shootings in which five or more people were killed. In the 21 years since, there have been none.
Emphasis mine, because FUCK THIS NOISE.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:37 AM on November 7, 2017 [67 favorites]


This whole "intent vs outcomes" debate reminds me of the "faith vs works" debate in religion.

What value is your faith, if not backed by actual results - good works in the world?

What is the worth of your supposedly not-racist inner thoughts, if all of your political actions support racist outcomes?
posted by notsnot at 7:37 AM on November 7, 2017 [22 favorites]




> You'd probably need a really good incentive (more than money) then. I propose free health insurance for the gun-owner's family as a trade as long as they are willing to do the gun return publicly.

Without making guns illegal, make the owner liable for all medical fees incurred by a gun, and the manufacturer liable if the owner is not found, or is unable to pay.

You have car insurance in case you accidentally mow down 58 people and wing another 515, you should have gun insurance in the totally unlikely, never going to happen to you chance, that a gun you own ends up in a terrorists' hands.

Of course, as long as I'm in fantasy land, I might as well declare repeal of the second amendment.
posted by fragmede at 7:42 AM on November 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Rykey: I can't imagine a buyback would be without big problems.

I suggest it start as being an optional buy-back for any gun, then mandatory for AR-15, because nobody needs an AR-15 (the retort, as available on a variety of shirts and hoodies from, and I'm not kidding, Drunk America.com, is that nobody needs a whiny little bitch either, yet here you are -- how is that even a comeback?).
posted by filthy light thief at 7:43 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Can we maybe not refer to Jewish people who said some shit we disagree with as Nazi apologists without some actual evidence beyond your own personal outraged hyperbole to back up that assertion?

I realize you're probably not trying to sound antisemitic but you do.


I imagine sotonohito had literally no idea that Beinart was Jewish. I'm also not sure how calling someone a Nazi apologist is antisemitic.

Criticism of a person who is Jewish does not equal criticism of someone because they are Jewish.

I don't necessarily agree with sotonohito, but I think we should be cautious about accusations of antisemitism in the absence of evidence.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:43 AM on November 7, 2017 [40 favorites]


Can we maybe not refer to Jewish people who said some shit we disagree with as Nazi apologists without some actual evidence beyond your own personal outraged hyperbole to back up that assertion?

Can we not refer to apologia for bigotry and hate as "some shit we disagree with"? The issue isn't that we disagree with Beinart, but that he's complaining that bigots are being correctly identified.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:43 AM on November 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


Mod note: Hello friends, we've had plenty of conversations about what counts as antisemitic, we don't need to have that conversation again here, would be good to bear in mind that specifically the word Nazi when applied to a Jewish person definitely fits the bill for some folks and it's better to think about whether there's another way to make the point you want to make, thank you, lovely people.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 7:46 AM on November 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


A buyback program?

It's hard to buy a gun in California, which means it's also hard to sell a gun in California.

I think my very first Ask question here was asking for advice on how to sell my handgun. I used to go to the range all the time, but it's been sitting in it's case in the back of the closet for over 10 years so I wanted to sell it. The problem is, it's now appreciated and it's worth a good $800+ dollars. Sorry, LAPD, I'm not turning that gun in for a $25 gift card to Ralphs, and I don't want a 3rd-party, licensed gun seller to take half of that.

I'm a poor and that's probably the most valuable thing I own anymore. I would love to sell it, but I don't really have a good way to do it. Maybe some rich person could do a market value-ish buyback program and melt them down.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:47 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


What To Watch In Tuesday's Elections Across The Country (NPR, Nov. 7, 2017) -- mentions the governor races in Virginia and New Jersey, big ballot measures in Maine (opportunity to bypass Republican Gov. Paul LePage's veto pen and approve an expansion of Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act), Ohio (whether the state and its agencies should pay the same or lower prices for prescription drugs as the VA medical system, where the pharmaceutical industry is spending nearly $60 million to defeat it, leading to general confusion about who's telling the truth) and New York (whether the state should hold a constitutional convention to rewrite or amend the state's constitution), plus a mention of down-ballot positions but no races specifically.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:49 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Interstate gun sales currently require an FFL, right? How about, as a start, the Feds have an automatic right of first refusal to any interstate firearms transaction?
posted by whuppy at 7:50 AM on November 7, 2017


“And it is the right thing to do, is to pray in moments like this because you know what? Prayer works.”

If it worked, would people in a church have been shot? Should not their prayers have turned the bullets aside? Or was their faith weak, you mendacious motherfucker?
posted by nubs at 7:52 AM on November 7, 2017 [59 favorites]


> Interstate gun sales currently require an FFL, right? How about, as a start, the Feds have an automatic right of first refusal to any interstate firearms transaction?

The trick here is not finding a legal basis by which the federal government could regulate guns. That's easy — there's tons of potential legal bases. The difficult part is finding a way to regulate guns that won't result in civil war.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 7:54 AM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Interstate gun sales currently require an FFL, right? How about, as a start, the Feds have an automatic right of first refusal to any interstate firearms transaction?

Yes, the FFL is the hurdle.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:54 AM on November 7, 2017


Can't help feeling that if you bought a bunch of AR-15s and you can't sell them then at some point personal responsibility kicks in and you're just going to take the hit of destroying them. You shouldn't be selling them only shifts the problem anyway.
posted by Artw at 7:54 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


If you're Paul Ryan, what do you pray for anyway? The suffering and death of poor people; the removal of a basic standard of healthcare? Maybe prayer does work for him if that's what he dearly wants to see.
posted by Myeral at 7:55 AM on November 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


“And it is the right thing to do, is to pray in moments like this because you know what? Prayer works.”

Taking into consideration that Paul Ryan is a lying sack of shit, the disconnect here is the definition of "works."

For us, "working" means "working to prevent more massacres."

For them, "working" means "working to create a more theistic culture, because massacres are caused by our sick, secular culture."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:55 AM on November 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


FLAMES, FACE.
posted by entropicamericana at 7:57 AM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


> ...immigrants and refugees have intrinsic value as human beings beyond their measurable/financial contributions.

List of U.S. presidents and congresspeeps who aren't pretty much entirely of recent(ish) immigrant status/descent.
posted by Buntix at 7:58 AM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


“The secular left”?

Paul Ryan is a true piece of shit.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:00 AM on November 7, 2017 [57 favorites]


Yeah, no. I’m not getting lectured about my secular values by some Randian hack with a weasel for a spine. Fuck Paul Ryan.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:04 AM on November 7, 2017 [54 favorites]


I'd love there to be some kind of database where you could look up the expression of people like Paul Ryan or Jefferson Sessions the moment they learn they are going to hell.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:12 AM on November 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


The difficult part is finding a way to regulate guns that won't result in civil war.

Honestly, voluntary buybacks at serious market value - even something like 3/4 value - would have an enormous effect on reducing the firearm stock in this country, and would have the side benefit of providing an economic stimulus to hard-hit regions. Even without outlawing new purchases. But I think it would probably be very expensive, And the people who most want a reduction of gun stocks in the US aren’t that interested in paying a lot of money to gun owners, so it’s probably politically impossible.
posted by corb at 8:12 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Why the fuck would new purchases not be outlawed in this scheme? And if it's not damn right we're not paying to subsidize your gun upgrades.
posted by Artw at 8:17 AM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


*I know that its both fruitless to argue with irrational beings AND that immigrants and refugees have intrinsic value as human beings beyond their measurable/financial contributions.
I find myself drawn to this Raymond Smullyan (previously, God rest his soul) quote often these days (paraphrased because I lost my copy of The Tao is Silent in a move):
Often, what is needed to defeat an irrational belief is not reason, but an equally-irrational counter-belief.
(I can confirm this from my own stint as an evangelical young-earth creationist. So please remember that brainwashed people are spouting nonsense that is specifically designed to bypass their cognition, and act accordingly.)
posted by ragtag at 8:19 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Maybe we could fund the buyback with a tax on mandatory gun liability insurance?
posted by polyhedron at 8:19 AM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


“And it is the right thing to do, is to pray in moments like this because you know what? Prayer works.”

The fact that he's promoting prayer for people who were shot in a church instead of advocating actual solutions like gun control should be a surprise to no one. Ryan sold his soul to the gun lobby a long time ago.
posted by zarq at 8:23 AM on November 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


the people who most want a reduction of gun stocks in the US aren’t that interested in paying a lot of money to gun owners

Yeah, because fuck those red-state people?

No, I'd happily give almost any amount of money to gun owners to stop buying and owning guns. They can spend it on anything they'd like. Except guns. I do not think this is an unusual sentiment.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:27 AM on November 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


Why the fuck would new purchases not be outlawed in this scheme? And if it's not damn right we're not paying to subsidize your gun upgrades.

Guns, like your house and whatever, are property. Property can't be taken from you without due process or fair compensation.

Second, I can just sell my guns on craigslist. In my state, that is perfectly legal. No background check or anything. Bring cash, get gun. Why would I sell my gun to a buyback program if I can get more for it at the truck stop parking lot ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:28 AM on November 7, 2017


> (I can confirm this from my own stint as an evangelical young-earth creationist. So please remember that brainwashed people are spouting nonsense that is specifically designed to bypass their cognition, and act accordingly.)

Remember: politics is about rhetoric. It's only about logic and cognition insofar as logic and cognition relate to rhetoric. It's common in our culture to treat "rhetoric" as a negative term — "oh, that's just rhetoric" — but really rhetoric is what moves the world. If we're not good at it, we die.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 8:30 AM on November 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


Maybe when the Republicans stop trying to bring us back to a time of rampant medical bankruptcies and stop trying to take money out of the pockets of the poor to get meaningless extra digits in the bank accounts of the rich, I'll be a little more concerned about fair market values in gun buybacks. I am on board with the idea of paying whatever to get guns off the street but holy shit does it take some gall for Republicans to make the demand.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:31 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


“And it is the right thing to do, is to pray in moments like this because you know what? Prayer works.”

Shit, Paul, what would prayer not working look like?!
posted by Rykey at 8:33 AM on November 7, 2017 [72 favorites]


Well, I ended up draining what little funds and property I have to pay for my mother's board and care. Damn right I want to get a fair price for the legal property I own.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:34 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


But here's a deal: the government pays full cost for her end-of-life care and they can have the gun for free.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:37 AM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Buyback programs all have one thing in common: They attract sellers who are the least likely to commit crimes with their guns. Which means that the guns being sold are the least likely to be used to kill people.

Buyback programs are political theater. Nothing more.

Effective gun control requires tougher laws related to guns. Ban accessories and mods that make slaughtering people easier. Make it well-nigh impossible to register for gun ownership. Force people to justify why they need to own one. Nothing else works.
posted by zarq at 8:38 AM on November 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


It's not the argument for fair buyback prices I'm opposed to, it's when it comes from the mouths of people who just want to clean out the pockets of everyone else.

That and I don't think it's a good faith argument from Republicans because if you say ok, we'll pay full new price even for old used guns, they're still going to say no.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:38 AM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


I learned something new about democracy today! It is a timely lesson, coming on the heels of Rand Paul's HOA-rule-compost-fight and its relevance to the libertarian fantasy of fair governance through consumer buy-in.

Like the rest of the country, it's election day here in Arizona ... but not where I live, because there's nothing to vote on. Evidently there are no elections for state-level offices or ballot initiatives. In my county, elections are only for a certain school district and a certain fire district, neither of which I live in. Fire districts are responsible for responding to fires — but many areas in rural Arizona are outside of fire districts, and there is no responding agency.

Suppose you are tired of living in a rural area with nobody to respond to structure fires. Perhaps it makes sense to organize a fire district. In order to do so, you simply need to submit a petition to the County Board of Supervisors. However...
  • The petition must be signed by the owners of at least one half of the taxable property units within the proposed district.
  • The petition must also be signed by owners representing at least one half of the taxable property value within the proposed district.
  • "Petition signatures representing real property on which taxes and assessments are not current at the time of petition review are invalid."
Do you rent a place that you don't want burning down? Sorry, your signature has no value.

Neighbor owns a bigger house than you? Ask him to sign; his opinion matters more than yours.

Missed a tax payment? You need to sign a check before signing a petition.

In my part of the state, an Italian development company has purchased a fair amount of valuable land with the intent of developing it. Local renters in Arizona have less say over local firefighting than foreign investors.
posted by compartment at 8:38 AM on November 7, 2017 [52 favorites]


jason_steakums, if I misread your comment or took it too personally I apologize.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:45 AM on November 7, 2017


The attempts to cover asses and push others under the bus begin.

@KenDilanianNBC:
Wow: JD Gordon tells NBC's @vmsalama he tried to stop Page from going to Moscow, but Page went around him "directly to campaign leadership."
posted by chris24 at 8:46 AM on November 7, 2017 [54 favorites]


jason_steakums, if I misread your comment or took it too personally I apologize.

Oh no it's all good, I'm just not a very clear communicator sometimes! Even I reread my first comment after posting and thought it was a little unclear.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:50 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


For religious people for whom acts on earth are taken as messages and challenges from God, I do not understand how this message from God about guns is not being heard. He sent someone to murder the children, we did not hear his message. He sent someone to murder people in a club, instead we showed how racist we are. To make it clear, he sent a white man to murder a crowd of white people who are supposed fans of god-fearing, patriotic music, we did not hear his message. Now he has sent him into a church in a town so small that the murdered account for near 7% of the population. But we do not hear him. Mysterious ways, indeed.
posted by amanda at 8:58 AM on November 7, 2017 [106 favorites]


Prayer works... if you believe that prayer works, and you are willing to substitute your reality for one in which prayer changes reality, and you are insistent that everyone else shares in that altered worldview.

The rest of us have work to do.
posted by delfin at 9:00 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Talking points that hammer home the utter, absurd unfairness of the tax bill, from Dana Millbank in the WaPo:
At Monday’s markup, Rep. Suzan DelBene (D-Wash.) quizzed a tax expert on this corporate exceptionalism:

“Will a teacher in my district who buys pens, pencils and paper for his students be able to deduct these costs from his tax returns under this plan?” He will not.

“Will a corporation that buys pens, pencils and papers for its workers be able to deduct those costs from its tax returns?” It will.

“Will a firefighter in my district be able to deduct the state and local sales taxes that she pays from her tax return?” She will not.

“Will a corporation be able to deduct sales taxes on business purchases?” It will.

“If a worker in my district had to move because his employer was forcing him to relocate . . . can he deduct his moving expenses under this plan?” He cannot.

“Can a corporation under this plan deduct outsourcing expenses incurred in relocating a U.S. business outside the United States?” It can.
posted by joyceanmachine at 9:00 AM on November 7, 2017 [193 favorites]


Page keeps trying to portray himself as a minor volunteer in the campaign, but also noteworthy enough to be "illegally wire-tapped by the Obama regime."
posted by drezdn at 9:07 AM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


For religious people for whom acts on earth are taken as messages and challenges from God, I do not understand how this message from God about guns is not being heard. He sent someone to murder the children, we did not hear his message. He sent someone to murder people in a club, instead we showed how racist we are. To make it clear, he sent a white man to murder a crowd of white people who are supposed fans of god-fearing, patriotic music, we did not hear his message. Now he has sent him into a church in a town so small that the murdered account for near 7% of the population. But we do not hear him. Mysterious ways, indeed.

Quoted for extreme truth.
posted by emjaybee at 9:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


Too easy. God is perturbed by our nation's secular ways and sexual identities and tolerance of strange pagan faiths and refusal to give His selected representatives control over all lives therein, and has simply removed His Protective Hand to allow the forces of Evil to strike at us for our misdeeds. The beatings will continue until morale improves and The Right Christians run everything and prayer returns to public schools and all neighbors of Israel are bombed flat and all homosexuals, Muslims and people who kneel during the national anthem are packed up and mailed to Abu Dhabi.

God works in mysterious ways unless you are convinced that you're the one with the secret decoder ring and this time it has nothing to do with Ovaltine.
posted by delfin at 9:22 AM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


The shooter left the church, was shot twice by Willeford outside, and took off down the road. He crashed his car and committed suicide.

Just think, if this random other dude hadn't been shooting at a guy coming out of a church, the authorities would only have to recover bullets from one shooter.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:24 AM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]




'Gun control = secularism' is a new one to me, and would be extremely surprising to the many faith-organization-based gun control advocacy groups in my city.

It's worse than that -- Ryan is literally blaming disunity in this country on "the secular left," and simultaneously and very dishonesty claiming religious faith as an exclusively conservative virtue. It's appalling, and I hope the so-called "liberal media" is handed a copy of this interview the next time they're inclined to portray him as a "serious, honest conservative wonk."
posted by Gelatin at 9:34 AM on November 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


No, I'd happily give almost any amount of money to gun owners to stop buying and owning guns.

In many places, this is just called a mugging
posted by beerperson at 9:34 AM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


There are between 270 million and 310 million guns in the US.

A buyback would be very expensive.
posted by MrVisible at 9:39 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


What's done is done.

It's nice to see this by-now-banal phrase returned to its blood-drenched origins!
posted by thelonius at 9:39 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


“And it is the right thing to do, is to pray in moments like this because you know what? Prayer works.”

Shit, Paul, what would prayer not working look like?!


Sometimes the answer to a prayer is "no" and if so, you must find anther way. To quote a local figure. And see, in his opinion, prayers for shootings to stop all together aren't working but prayers for good guys with guns to stop bad guys with guns are working. So guns need to stay legal. And you should have one so you can be a good guy and save yourself and others.
posted by beaning at 9:40 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Except for the "good guys" stopping anything bit. They pray and pay for that shit but the good guy keeps failing to come along and make them look better.
posted by Artw at 9:43 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


The shooter left the church, was shot twice by Willeford outside, and took off down the road. He crashed his car and committed suicide.

This is the part that really bothers me. The guy had already left the church, and then some "hero" decided to chase him down the road. He shot the gunman, who then committed suicide. If our hero had let the cops do their job they might have captured him so he could face justice.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:43 AM on November 7, 2017 [30 favorites]


There are between 270 million and 310 million guns in the US.

A buyback would be very expensive.


More expensive than thousands of gun deaths?
posted by emjaybee at 9:44 AM on November 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


claiming religious faith as an exclusively conservative virtue

It's fun how while constantly Quixotying for 'religious freedom' and championing religious Americans we are simultaneously attempting to build a 1-1 correlation between Muslim devotion and anti-Americanism
posted by beerperson at 9:48 AM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


A buyback would be very expensive.

An estimated cost of $229 billion in gun violence per year, divided by 300 million guns is $763 per gun. That's a pretty good starting offer ...
posted by a complicated history at 9:49 AM on November 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


Buyback programs all have one thing in common: They attract sellers who are the least likely to commit crimes with their guns. Which means that the guns being sold are the least likely to be used to kill people.

Well, maybe, but guns removed from circulation via a buyback program will not be used in anger, will not be used to commit suicide, will not be used by a child who finds it lying around, will not accidentally go off, and won't get stolen to be used in a crime. On that basis alone, they're worthwhile.
posted by Gelatin at 9:49 AM on November 7, 2017 [36 favorites]


There are between 270 million and 310 million guns in the US.

A buyback would be very expensive.


"The moon is far away. Getting there would be very expensive."
posted by notyou at 9:51 AM on November 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


A buyback would be very expensive.

Perhaps as expensive as a Virginia class submarine. It would be unfortunate if we ended up with one less of those.
posted by Captain Shenanigan at 9:52 AM on November 7, 2017 [42 favorites]


A year earlier, Forbes had listed his net worth at $2.9 billion on The Forbes 400, a number Ross claimed was far too low: He maintained he was closer to $3.7 billion.

I'm pretty sure if Forbes published a Cat Lady 400 list people on the list would be writing in complaining that they really have 370 cats not 290, and Forbes missed the cats in the attic.

The difference is we wouldn't be trying to decide which cat lady to elect president.

(Of course, if the archetype was Cat Dude instead, maybe we'd be doing exactly that.)
posted by Killick at 9:52 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


A buyback would be very expensive.

That is maybe the least convincing argument against it. For one thing, buyback of all guns is absurd.

How many AR-15s are there? They'd be the most likely targets of a buyback. How much is an AR-15 on the open market?
posted by aspersioncast at 9:53 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Actually keeping that many cats organized is quite analogous to working with Congress
posted by beerperson at 9:54 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Well, maybe, but guns removed from circulation via a buyback program will not be used in anger, will not be used to commit suicide, will not be used by a child who finds it lying around, will not accidentally go off, and won't get stolen to be used in a crime. On that basis alone, they're worthwhile.

That hasn't been historically true, either. Even guns used in crimes may be resold.

Destroying the guns adds to the cost of the program. Selling them reduces it. Guess which one is great news to a bean counter at the county.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:54 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


The guy had already left the church, and then some "hero" decided to chase him down the road.

I agree shooting him was not optimal (I don't know enough to say if the gunman may have continued firing outside however). But chasing him, that is fine, apparently his in-laws and his former wife were not at church that day so he may have been in his way to their house nearby. Following him and staying in communication with police is a good idea.
posted by saucysault at 9:56 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Destroying the guns adds to the cost of the program. Selling them reduces it. Guess which one is great news to a bean counter at the county.

Point, but of course I am presuming guns in the buyback program will be destroyed. Selling them makes no sense, even to a bean counter, as it just creates the risk of the costs of gun violence all over again.

I also like the fact that the gun manufacturers won't see a dime of all that money.
posted by Gelatin at 9:57 AM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


“If a worker in my district had to move because his employer was forcing him to relocate . . . can he deduct his moving expenses under this plan?” He cannot.

“Can a corporation under this plan deduct outsourcing expenses incurred in relocating a U.S. business outside the United States?” It can.


Corporations: more human than human
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:57 AM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


Except for the "good guys" stopping anything bit. They pray and pay for that shit but the good guy keeps failing to come along and make them look better.

All in the eye of the beholder. To this person, Willieford showed up and stopped even more people from being shot He also cites a few military base incidents where responders stopped shooters and that the good guy cops show always up sooner or later. That people still are killed by shooters reflects both God's will and that even more good guys with guns would help -- if people at the concert had had guns, they wouldn't have had to wait for the cops. And don't forget homeowners scaring off/shooting burglars.
posted by beaning at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Following him and staying in communication with police is a good idea.

I believe I read that the pursuit reached speeds of 95MPH. I don't think random civilian hero dude should be initiating such a car chase.
posted by jindc at 9:59 AM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


(In fact, I stipulated guns removed from circulation due to a buyback. Reselling them does no such thing.)
posted by Gelatin at 9:59 AM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


And yes, I know the shooter at the concert was in a hotel many floors above. I'm just passing on what I hear. Maybe he thinks people in nearby rooms would have responded. I usually leave the room by that point.
posted by beaning at 10:00 AM on November 7, 2017


A buyback would be very expensive.

An estimated cost of $229 billion in gun violence per year, divided by 300 million guns is $763 per gun. That's a pretty good starting offer ...


Heck, the tax abomination currently before Congress costs $1.5 trillion. For that price we could pay five grand a gun. Plus the economic benefit of five grand in the pockets of millions of American consumers.
posted by saturday_morning at 10:00 AM on November 7, 2017 [32 favorites]




Buyback programs all have one thing in common: They attract sellers who are the least likely to commit crimes with their guns. Which means that the guns being sold are the least likely to be used to kill people.

So you're saying that, as the buy-back program takes more and more guns out of civilian hands, the odds that anyone I see with a gun that isn't wearing a uniform is more and more likely to be up to no good?

So maybe after all the "good guys" have sold back their guns, if I see someone with a gun, I can just assume that they're a "bad guy" and should call the authorities or take some other appropriate action.

I'd love to see some sort of buy-back program but I won't hold my breath. If it happens within the next ten years I'll eat my words via cake. Debate about the potential effects of a buy-back program seem moot to me right now. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see anything that "extreme" getting any traction.
posted by VTX at 10:03 AM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


I wish we'd overton window that "extreme" position, and promptly
posted by scrowdid at 10:06 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


I will eat a gun buyback cake too, if it helps.

My last cake was McCain voting for the ACA repel, so it's a streak I'd like to keep going.
posted by Gelatin at 10:09 AM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


I'm a little unclear on why we're trying to solve the gun problem in this thread.
posted by diogenes at 10:11 AM on November 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


Buyback programs are political theater. Nothing more.

No. Because the other half of the equation is strict liability on ownership of prohibited weapons. Get caught with a semi-automatic rifle? Get put away for five years.
posted by Talez at 10:11 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


To be fair, Paul Ryan's favorite form of prayer is sticking his fingers in his ears and saying, "LA-LA-LA, LA-LA-LA." And soon the problem goes away. Until the next massacre.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:13 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


From the US News article: The estimated burden of firearm-related injuries doesn't touch on the costs incurred when a patient leaves the hospital, with physical therapy, trauma counseling, prescription medicines, lost income and legal claims among the major considerations. The study's researchers estimate that the actual financial burden of firearm-related injuries is closer to $45.6 billion annually.

Think about the damage one gun can cause, lost lifetime earnings alone from a single murder would be millions of dollars just for an average earning worker, much less if a 3 year old who would've grown up to be a doctor instead blows his brains out because Dad didn't lock up his 9mm, or literally billions in economic activity cut short when a gunman with an AR15 kills 30+ people. Just in economic terms, almost any amount spent on eliminating guns pays for itself exponentially.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


I never heard anything about DJT's scheduled golf game in Japan with the world's 3rd ranked player. Did that happen?

I found the idea of a civilian shooting and chasing the shooter very upsetting. I'm guessing that the shooter's clothes and the fact that he was carrying a rifle made him appear to be the shooter but what if he had not been? What if he was an accomplice? In this particular case it worked out OK but the idea of vigilantes AKA "good guys with guns" deciding who they can chase and kill is not great.

I can't believe the Law and Order Crowd thinks that nothing can be done about this kind of criminal activity (mass shootings) except to tell the citizens, "You're on your own."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:15 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Can we go back to Carter Page's testimony yet? At least that's an actual thing that happened and not hypotheticals on gun buybacks.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:16 AM on November 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


Mod note: Yeah, agree with the above -- having now rehearsed the same ideas that we go over every time this happens, let's draw a line under the gun control discussion and return to general US politics stuff.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:18 AM on November 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


Complete change of topic: Don, Jr. tweeted out today at 11:30: Virginia, the future of the Commonwealth is at stake tomorrow. Find your polling place at http://vote.gop to vote Ed for #VAGov

So let's hope that the Republicans in Virginia follow his advice.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:21 AM on November 7, 2017 [48 favorites]


So people who have fucked up the date of the election: Don Trump Jr and Donna Brazile. Not great company.
posted by Justinian at 10:23 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Puerto Rico population will be dropping 14% because of the hurricane. The article predicts 2.9 million by 2019. It was 3.7 million in 2010.

I can't imagine what this will do to the economy.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:29 AM on November 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


Josh Marshall with his First Thoughts on Page:
A good deal of the first half of his testimony was tied to a convoluted explanation of why he apparently failed to turn over a substantial number of documents he was ordered to turn over to the House committee. (His argument did not sound legally tenable.) Since his claims appeared to be contradicted by his contemporaneous emails he consistently tried to use these over-clever interpretations of his own words. Outreach and conversations with key government leaders became simply talking to the man on the street and watching TV. Also, did you know Page is a scholar? It’s different with scholars. That was perhaps half his argument. The text reads like a guy who thinks he’s being really clever and skating right past people with canny interpretations when he’s clearly just lying and doing so in a position of great legal vulnerability.
Page talks like how a fool thinks really clever people talk. He's going to be a lot of trouble for everyone involved in this shitty mess.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:30 AM on November 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


Think Progress Trump to nominate notorious anti-feminist to be ‘Ambassador for Women’
President Trump is expected to nominate Penny Nance, an anti-LGBTQ, anti-abortion, and anti-feminist activist, to be the “Ambassador-at-Large for Global Women’s Issues,” a position created under President Obama.

Since 2010, Nance has led the Concerned Women for America (CWA), a Christian social policy organization that has been listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as an anti-LGBTQ hate group. She doesn’t believe that efforts to restrict health coverage for women are part of a “war on women,” but she used that term to describe the Violence Against Women Act. And she claims that legal abortion is worse than the Holocaust.
Well of course he did. This is a President who put a guy who doesn't believe the poor should be helped in charge of HUD, a woman who doesn't think children should go to free public schools in charge of the Dept. of Education and a man who doesn't believe in Climate Science and thinks industry should be allowed to pollute at will in charge of the EPA.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:30 AM on November 7, 2017 [66 favorites]


Officials expect DeVos to resign from Trump administration

oh please oh please oh please
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:34 AM on November 7, 2017 [107 favorites]


Listen, I will eat an entire Costco sized sheet cake for that one. Make it so, universe. I wanted to only wear stretchy pants this winter anyway.
posted by palomar at 10:36 AM on November 7, 2017 [50 favorites]


Page talks like how a fool thinks really clever people talk. He's going to be a lot of trouble for everyone involved in this shitty mess.

I like to think there's a lot of flop sweat going around the inner circle "oh God this guy is a millstone around our necks."
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:36 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


If you're one of the "I don't care how the President eats" people you can skip this link.

Trump bodyguard would go to McDonald’s when WH chef couldn’t get burger just right: report.

Yeah, he preferred McDonalds to the professional chefs. Quarter Pounders with no pickles and extra ketchup. Gross.
posted by Justinian at 10:37 AM on November 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


No, he negs his chef by telling his bodyguard JUST GO TO THE CLOWN.
posted by Rat Spatula at 10:39 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Me and kiddo #2 went and cast our vote in Virginia earlier today. The republican rep who's usually there to hand out sample ballots wasn't there, either because they're made of spun sugar and will melt in the drizzle or because they took the "enemy territory" thing too literally and ran before they got attacked or something. The person handing out sample dem ballots was under his umbrella and in a great mood.

Aside from the confederate-humper winning the governor's seat, my great fear in this election is this clown Webb winning the school board seat based on (incorrect) name recognition. Check out this loon's website. The only school related bit I can find there is this bit of brilliance:
If your child is 13 years old, and cannot yet find his or her own way to the neighborhood school, the problem that needs to be solved cannot be solved at school. So, why is our Board of Education wasting $17 million per year to guarantee free bus transportation for grades K-12, when, at least some of that money can go into educating our kids and improving our SAT scores to be competitive with the parochial schools that, on average, are beating our students by 150 points?
Local elections matter, folks. If for no other reason than because self-aggrandizing incompetent assholes can get themselves onto the payroll and into situations where they can harm us when folks don't pay attention.
posted by phearlez at 10:39 AM on November 7, 2017 [35 favorites]


ok wait that advent calendar also includes quitting/firing right? not just indictments? I want to get all my shots in.
posted by numaner at 10:39 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


In Moscow, they have a Quarter Pounder, but they don't call it that. They got the metric system there, they wouldn't know what the fuck a Quarter Pounder is. They call it a "Grand Cheeseburger".
posted by thelonius at 10:41 AM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


dances_with_sneetches: Puerto Rico population will be dropping 14% because of the hurricane. The article predicts 2.9 million by 2019. It was 3.7 million in 2010. I can't imagine what this will do to the economy.

Well, if those displaced Puerto Ricans are moving to Florida and Georgia, I hope they will have long memories.

The entire Puerto Rico situation makes me so angry that I can't think straight. An unknown number of US citizens being cremated, or dying of "natural causes" in nursing homes that don't have reliable power, or or or ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:46 AM on November 7, 2017 [45 favorites]


this just seems to be a synopsis of last week's Politico piece?

Yes, the Politico piece I skipped, because of the subject of the profile. I figured I could not have been alone...
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:48 AM on November 7, 2017


Oh my. Trump even more incoherent than usual. I wonder if he is tired out by the travel?

@Daniel Dale: Trump was briefly confusing during his (mostly scripted) South Korea dinner toast, saying the following words:
Together, our nations remind the world of the boundless potential of societies that chose freedom over tyranny, and who set the free. And we will free, and we will sacrifice, and we will hope, and we will make things beautiful, especially the aspiration of your people.
So not only we will set the free, we will free. And make things beautiful. It's like some avant garde poetry. Maybe the guy is just a poet.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:55 AM on November 7, 2017 [65 favorites]


So not only we will set the free, we will free. And make things beautiful. It's like some avant garde poetry. Maybe the guy is just a poet.

I hope we same place again very now.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:58 AM on November 7, 2017 [52 favorites]


Big collusion burger
posted by crocomancer at 11:00 AM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Such poet many wow
posted by Fleebnork at 11:00 AM on November 7, 2017 [30 favorites]


Kang: My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball; but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom!
posted by paper chromatographologist at 11:02 AM on November 7, 2017 [36 favorites]


Everyone in the twitter thread is asking, "Are you sure this is not just an English translation of the Korean translation of Trump's speech? But, no, there is video and D. Dale checked it to make sure that is what Trump actually said.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:02 AM on November 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Yeah, he preferred McDonalds to the professional chefs. Quarter Pounders with no pickles and extra ketchup. Gross.

$20 says he doesn't eat any vegetables except french fried potatoes.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:04 AM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Together, our nations remind the world of the boundless potential of societies that chose freedom over tyranny, and who set the free. And we will free, and we will sacrifice, and we will hope, and we will make things beautiful, especially the aspiration of your people.

How do we in education teach kids that language matters when it so clearly doesn't? Trump has proven that language doesn't matter, honest doesn't matter, integrity doesn't matter, caring about others doesn't matter, competence doesn't matter, honestly that nothing matters but the stench of money. Trump does not know what nihilism is, but he embodies it with every action. I don't know what he embodies with his words other than incompetence.

Honestly, I feel like everything we teach is counter to actually gaining power and success in the real world - and we can't teach how to be born rich. It is so disheartening.
posted by Joey Michaels at 11:05 AM on November 7, 2017 [54 favorites]


House Republican: my donors told me to pass the tax bill “or don’t ever call me again”

Looks like the sugar daddies want to get paid.
posted by Talez at 11:05 AM on November 7, 2017 [70 favorites]


I'm sure ketchup will be considered a vegetable very soon.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:06 AM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yeah, he preferred McDonalds to the professional chefs. Quarter Pounders with no pickles and extra ketchup. Gross.

Hah, that reminds me of my boys. Except one is 6 years old and the other is almost 3.

It also reminds me of some ugly Americans who visited a wild game park in Kenya. They asked for hotdogs or hamburgers or something that baffled the poor chef there. And family friends who refuse to eat any meat that they can't instantly identify, and want everything well-done, for fear of germs, I think.

Really, I'm just sad for people who are so scared of change that they find anything different or unknown to be a source of fear. Unless you have a compromised immune system or are allergic or unable to process foods, the world is so full of fantastic things to eat, why limit your experiences?
posted by filthy light thief at 11:06 AM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


Ia it true that Dems don't vote in the rain?
posted by Myeral at 11:08 AM on November 7, 2017


back when america was Still Great under reagan, ketchup was (almost) a vegetable
posted by halation at 11:08 AM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Is it true that Dems don't vote in the rain?

Not sure, but I know you should never feed them after midnight or they start sprouting Neoliberals.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:10 AM on November 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


We also like making love at midnight on a pile of those little ballot stubs from the mail-in jobbies.
posted by palomar at 11:13 AM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Officials expect DeVos to resign from Trump administration

Huh. Back in May I had started a list of the most deeply "compromised by Russia" members of the Trump administration. My thought was that, even if Trump was impeached, I wasn't going to believe the Russian influence was gone unless certain other people were gone as well... DeVos was on the list, along with Bannon, Sessions, and Wilbur Ross.

Of those, Bannon is now out. But... DeVos is rumored to be on her way out. And between the Forbes thing and hidden Russian investments thing, Ross is embroiled in scandal. Trump has already tried to fire Sessions a couple of times, and been prevented only by the fact that Sessions' recusal makes him valuable to Trump's political opponents, for now. I didn't think of it at the time, but I feel like Rex Tillerson should be on that "compromised by Russia" list as well, and the rumors of his impending resignation/firing are also rampant.

If DeVos and Tillerson and Ross get forced out, I'm going to interpret that a sign that the pro-Russian faction has lost all their power in whatever behind-the-scenes power struggles are happening in DC right now, and I think that will be a sign that Trump himself is on his way to impeachment.

If Sessions has to go last, so be it. But at the end of the day I need him to be gone as well, if I'm going to sleep at night.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


The hanging Chads? :)
posted by Melismata at 11:14 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


So here's some good news for a change:
The Hill Notre Dame reverses decision to end no-cost contraceptive coverage
The insurance company used by employees at Notre Dame will keep a plan with contraceptive coverage with no co-pay, US News & World Report reported Tuesday.

"The University of Notre Dame, as a Catholic Institution, follows Catholic teaching about the use of contraceptives and engaged in the recent lawsuit to protect its freedom to act in accord with its principles," the university said in an email Tuesday.

"Recognizing, however, the plurality of religious and other convictions among its employees, it will not interfere with the provision of contraceptives that will be administered and funded independently of the University."

The university had previously said it would stop coverage for employees of the university on Jan. 1.
I guess they decided to "recognize" that not everyone agreed with the strict Catholic doctrine on BC when the entire Nation complained and women everywhere held them up as a sign that the War on Women was heating up.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:15 AM on November 7, 2017 [90 favorites]


There's a whole Twitter account dedicated to the poetry of Trump's statements:

And we ate with the troops.
And it was good eating.
It was good eating.

posted by Emera Gratia at 11:16 AM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Since Trump declared that his response to Puerto Rico was 10 out of 10, he effectively said that this is the marker by which all of his achievements can be compared to.
The Asia trip? It went all right, but it was no Puerto Rico.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:18 AM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


when the entire Nation complained and women everywhere held them up as a sign that the War on Women was heating up.

A move like that could also piss off a chunk of tenured faculty, and make it more difficult to retain and recruit academic talent.
posted by halation at 11:20 AM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Finally. HuffPo, Jeff Sessions’ DOJ Drops Prosecution Of Woman Who Laughed At Jeff Sessions. After a judge tossed the first conviction in July, they won't try to prosecute her again. This horror show has been going on since January.
posted by zachlipton at 11:24 AM on November 7, 2017 [103 favorites]


Together, our nations remind the world of the boundless potential of societies that chose freedom over tyranny, and who set the free. And we will free, and we will sacrifice, and we will hope, and we will make things beautiful, especially the aspiration of your people.

Awhile back, one of the larger magazines (GQ?) ran an interview with Jackie Chan where they talked about his language skills. They had conducted the interview on a movie set, and Chan's team was constantly interrupting him. The reporter recorded their conversation.

In the final printed interview, the reporter noted that transcribing their conversation was very difficult, because Chan did not speak in complete sentences, and sometimes his wording (as a non-native English speaker) was a little unusual. During the conversation and even on the tape, his answers were totally clear and his meaning came across. But written down, they weren't the proper English that you'd expect to find when you opened a magazine.

There are people who are like that. They're just not coherent communicators when their words are written down. But you get their meaning from the context. George W. Bush was like that. His words were strung together but you could understand what he was trying to say.

Trump isn't one of them. He's incoherent in any medium. It's quite an accomplishment, really.
posted by zarq at 11:30 AM on November 7, 2017 [43 favorites]


House Republican: my donors told me to pass the tax bill “or don’t ever call me again”

Profiles in Courage. This cravin cretin is from New York. I'm sure his constituents would love to hear how he's planning to screw them on SALT on behalf of his masters donors.

Gee, maybe we should think about getting money out of politics? Then they wouldn't need to spend 4 hours a day dialing for dollars.
posted by leotrotsky at 11:37 AM on November 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


A CRFB analysis of the tax bill: The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act Doesn't Comply with the Byrd Rule . They're $155 billion in the hole on being budget neutral, along with other problems.

It seems to me like the House just doesn't care (just as they didn't with health care) and will pass it anyway, kicking the problem over to the Senate, which will have a substantially different bill, and both chambers can proceed to hate each other. This analysis is also available in gif form on twitter. Zach Moller is taking questions if you want to get nerdy with someone.

This is a beautiful Twitter thread (yes, there is such a thing) from Sam Levine featuring Virginians who had their voting rights restored talking about what voting today means to them.

Politico Omarosa's West Wing bridal adventure highlights broader dysfunction, in which she brought her bridal party to the White House for an extended photo shoot, much to the surprise of her co-workers, and leading to an order not to post the pictures anywhere online. The article goes on to discuss problems at the Office of the Public Liaison for being a "dumpster fire place to work," which is saying something when the whole White House is a dumpster fire.

Reports of calls to Virginia voters falsely telling them their polling place has changed. Why does this seem to happen so frequently yet nobody is ever caught doing it?
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on November 7, 2017 [46 favorites]




Of those, Bannon is now out.

Bannon is very clearly not out. His office moved out of the White House but 45 still calls him all the time. He is totally not out of this picture.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:48 AM on November 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The paranoid Carter Page transcript: What in God’s name did I just read?
Carter Page’s testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, the transcript of which was released Monday night, was like trying to read a magic eye painting. It is the sort of thing a lawyer — or, really, any person concerned with your welfare — would tell you not to say to a congressional committee. Yet, here we are. For anyone who doesn’t want to curl up with 243 pages of testimony and footnoted letters, here is pretty much how the thing went, severely condensed.

Carter Page: Hello. I am a doctor and a scholar, and I am here about the world premiere of the dodgy dossier that inexplicably made all kinds of charges against me, an innocent man who has never met anyone directly in my life! I have been illegally wiretapped by the FBI, CIA and other U.S. propaganda agencies, and my life has been ruined. I must be continually on the move, like a shark. I have done nothing wrong, but I will answer none of the questions put to me, because I have been studying the law. I am, as I said, a scholar. Here is a letter. I know it looks like a scrawl in red crayon, but trust me — it is a letter about the CIA’s illegal dossier.

Thomas Rooney: Okay. Who are you? Did you work for the Trump campaign?

Page: The Washington Post says I did.

Rooney: Were you on the foreign policy committee?

Page: I may have been. It was very informal. I was a volunteer who had nothing to do with the campaign.

Rooney: Did you ever meet Mr. Trump?

Page: No. Never. I’ve met him in my heart. Never in my life, except on the television. And at rallies. I think he is beautiful and has a lot to teach all of us.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:50 AM on November 7, 2017 [37 favorites]


45 still calls [Bannon] all the time

But he has no official government office. So if Trump goes, Bannon's power in the White House is gone too.

My list was people I would ALSO need to see gone in order to feel some real relief IF Trump were removed. Bannon now has no power in government of his own -- only his influence on Trump.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:53 AM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Together, our nations remind the world of the boundless potential of societies that chose freedom over tyranny, and who set the free. And we will free, and we will sacrifice, and we will hope, and we will make things beautiful, especially the aspiration of your people.


If you have the stomach for it, here's the video cued up to the right timestamp. Just - this, this buffoon - is the President. My stomach churns from watching more than ten seconds at a time.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:54 AM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


That is BRILLIANT, Johnny Wallflower, thank you!
posted by Melismata at 11:56 AM on November 7, 2017


Everyone in the twitter thread is asking, "Are you sure this is not just an English translation of the Korean translation of Trump's speech? But, no, there is video and D. Dale checked it to make sure that is what Trump actually said.

To be fair, it's not easy to translate a speech written for you in Russian on the fly.
posted by solotoro at 12:01 PM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


I came across a quote earlier and I'm not sure of the original source, but I like it:
Republicans look for any reason to vote for a candidate, Democrats look for any reason not to vote for a candidate.
I should get this on a bumper sticker.
posted by Justinian at 12:03 PM on November 7, 2017 [55 favorites]


If you have the stomach for it, here's the video cued up to the right timestamp. Just - this, this buffoon - is the President. My stomach churns from watching more than ten seconds at a time.

Free is the new fnord.
posted by vverse23 at 12:12 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Riane Konc, New Yorker: I Swear That I, Justin Trudeau, Am Not Trying to Hurt You
Hey, it’s me, Justin Trudeau. Look, I know that with all that’s going on in your country, just about everything I do seems like a slap in the face. I march in pride parades, I pen letters about why I’m raising my sons to be feminists, and all the while I’m doing it with this beautiful face. But, America, I’m not trying to rub it in. Really.

I am sorry about the time that Paul Ryan released publicity photos of himself wearing a backward cap and lifting weights, looking for all the world like he should’ve been named Chip. I am even sorrier that, on the same day, I released a photo of myself wearing a T-shirt that said “Ally” while spotting my daughter on the bench press.

What if I told you that my favorite musical artists are Bon Iver and the Spice Girls? But get this: I listen to Bon Iver ironically and the Spice Girls in earnest. Something about that hurts, doesn’t it? But I swear that pain is not intentional!

Speaking of music, while Trump paid, like, twenty million dollars for 3 Doors Down to play his Inauguration, I was cueing up my favorite playlist: the first track is “Fight Song,” and the final thirty-three are just clips from Malala’s Nobel Prize acceptance speech.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:13 PM on November 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


Hey, you! Here's an easy thing you can do right now.

The Capitol Police are enforcing new restrictions on credentialed reporters' movements in the Capitol. This is affecting the ability of reporters to do their jobs.

So take a moment and call your reps, or drop them a quick fax with Resistbot. Tell them the work of Congressional reporters is important to you and they need to be able to do their jobs as the Capitol. Ask them to contact the Capitol Police and ensure this is resolved. Sending the message with Resistbot takes about a minute, maybe two if it's your first time. Thanks!
posted by zachlipton at 12:16 PM on November 7, 2017 [19 favorites]




In a statement distributed to reporters Tuesday morning, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) Administrator Seema Verma called the goal of covering more people a “hollow victory of numbers,”

Ugh.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:22 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Sorry Justin Trudeau, you may be handsome but you're still a legacy politician, a liar, and a war criminal.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:22 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ed Gillespie, Populist Lobbyist and State-of-the-Art Trump Republican
Gillespie’s triumph is that he has demonstrated the vacuity of the economic component of Trump’s formula. A politician who can play the right ethno-nationalist chords does not need even the pretense of outsider authenticity in order to qualify as a populist; one can actually go straight from a career as a Washington lobbyist to a “populist.” He has proven that the Republican Party can embrace its Trump-era identity without any alteration of its domestic-policy formula. He has proven that cynicism runs deeper than anybody suspected. Just as Bannon says, Gillespie has shown the way forward.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:23 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


I just realized that DC Comics supervillain The Joker is in some ways a better person than most modern Republican politicians and the leadership at most multinational corporations.

You know why?

The Joker pays his taxes without complaint or trickery. [1]

The Joker refuses to work with Nazis just to further his own ends. And he kicks their asses for being Nazis. [2]

I feel like those things can't be said about Trump or anyone in his inner circle, family, or cabinet. Or Paul Ryan. Or McConnell. Or....

Sources:
[1] Clip from B:TAS
[2] Even Evil Has Standards (warning: TV Tropes link. Not responsible for time lost at the site.]
posted by lord_wolf at 12:24 PM on November 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


In a statement distributed to reporters Tuesday morning, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) Administrator Seema Verma called the goal of covering more people a “hollow victory of numbers,”

Yet another tacit admission that Obamacare is working. "Sure it covers more people! But how important is that?"
posted by Gelatin at 12:25 PM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


The Joker serially harasses one woman, rather than multitudes.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:26 PM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Did the Coen Brothers ghostwrite the Carter Page testimony? It's like a scene from Burn After Reading.
posted by pxe2000 at 12:29 PM on November 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


i'm a little late with this, but i don't think it's been posted: Page could learn a thing or two from Chappelle's Show on how to plead the fifth
posted by numaner at 12:32 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Projection of record turnout here in Arlington. Very likely good news for Northam.
posted by phearlez at 12:33 PM on November 7, 2017 [19 favorites]


The Joker serially harasses one woman, rather than multitudes.

I don't think Harley sees it that way. "Aw c'mon, Mr. J's just playin' around!"
posted by leotrotsky at 12:33 PM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Dem walks out of moment of silence for Texas shooting: 'I can't do this again'
Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.) says he walked out of a moment of silence on the House floor for victims of Sunday's mass shooting in Texas, saying he "will not be silent" after yet another massacre.

"My colleagues right now are doing a moment of silence in the House of Representatives chambers," Lieu said. "I respect their right to do that and I myself have participated in many of them."

"But I can't do this again; I've been to too many moments of silences. In just my short period in congress three of the worst mass shootings in U.S. history have occurred. I will not be silent."
\o/ Ted Lieu!

A top Trump Pentagon nominee thinks it’s “insane” that civilians can buy assault rifles
posted by Room 641-A at 12:33 PM on November 7, 2017 [134 favorites]


My list was people I would ALSO need to see gone in order to feel some real relief IF Trump were removed. Bannon now has no power in government of his own -- only his influence on Trump.
And, let us not forget, his significant personal wealth and a propaganda network with millions of followers.

Bannon will be less of a threat should Trump be removed from power but he'll be far from powerless. His media empire guarantees continued significant influence over a fair number of right-wing legislators and policy-makers.
posted by Nerd of the North at 12:33 PM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Right now I am very proud of Rep. Lieu. Everything he does gets him a little closer to being a great candidate for higher office.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:36 PM on November 7, 2017 [38 favorites]


Just FYI: Ted Lieu is worth following on Twitter. (In fact, he thought and prayered on Twitter right after the latest mass shooting and got a ton of grief for it and handled it pretty well. And also seems to have decided to take another tack. )
posted by notyou at 12:38 PM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]




Popehat presents the Carter Page testimony [fake]

MR. PAGE: No. President Trump my life for him. . . .


Oh my god, of course. That explains so, so much.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:45 PM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Trump: Well I wasn't going to go anyway!

[fake, for now]
posted by elsietheeel at 12:45 PM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Re Steve Bannon 's ongoing influence:

Are Bannon’s Ongoing Contacts With Trump Illegal?
Bannon-Trump communications may also run afoul of obstruction of justice and witness tampering laws.
Former White House staff members—whether encamped at Breitbart News or anywhere else—are constrained by 18 USC 207, which governs “restrictions on former officers, employees, and elected officials of the executive and legislative branches.” One provision of this statute prohibits former senior executive branch officials from communicating with their former agency for one year on behalf of other persons, whether their current employers, persons who are targets of a government investigation or anyone else. And former very senior White House officials, such as Bannon, are subject to a two-year cooling off period, which bars them not only from making such communications on behalf of others back to White House staff, but also to other very senior people in the government, such as the attorney general—and also the president.

Another provision of the same statute prohibits former executive branch employees from contacting any part of the executive branch, including the president, with the intent to influence official decisions in any particular party matter in which the former official participated personally and substantially while in the government—all on behalf of others. The Russia investigation is such a party matter, and this means that any former government official who participated in deliberations or a decision about the Russia investigation—for example the White House decision to fire FBI Director James Comey because of the Russia investigation—may not represent back to the government on behalf of anyone else with intent to influence a government decision about the Russia investigation. The press has reported that when Bannon served in the White House he was involved in deliberations regarding the Comey firing and the Russia investigation.
In fact, he thought and prayered on Twitter right after the latest mass shooting and got a ton of grief for it and handled it pretty well.

Indeed! "Screw the @NRA"
posted by Room 641-A at 12:47 PM on November 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


I Swear That I, Justin Trudeau, Am Not Trying to Hurt You

Lies! You ARE trying to hurt me, Justin Trudeau! You and your damn Halloween costume. *sobs freely*
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:48 PM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


FYI the fun Ted Lieu stuff is on what seems to be his personal Twitter, he has a congressional one that is not as fun.
posted by numaner at 12:52 PM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Sorry Justin Trudeau, you may be handsome but you're still a legacy politician, a liar, and a war criminal.

OK, I'll bite. Yes to legacy politician and in the sense that all politicians lie, yes to the second, but what has he done that makes him a war criminal?
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:53 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Canada sells weapons to Saudi Arabia. SA sometimes uses those weapons for problematic purposes. Of course by this definition the leaders of the following nations are also war criminals: France, Germany, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, and I'll stop now but you get the idea. It's... a broad definition.
posted by Justinian at 12:57 PM on November 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


What he said. I wasn't implying that he's more of a war criminal than any other world leader, just that he's not as perfect and magical as many of my fellow USicans seem to think he is. Ultimately he's just like all the others in a slightly more palatable package.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:00 PM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


Justinian: Ah, I see, as you wrote "Republicans look for any reason to vote for a candidate, Democrats look for any reason not to vote for a candidate."
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:01 PM on November 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


(asking politely, but Trudeau’s kinda a derail, eh?)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:02 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Twitter is going to 280 characters for everybody, because I guess when we said "hey, how about fewer Nazis," they heard "let Donald Trump write longer tweets."
posted by zachlipton at 1:07 PM on November 7, 2017 [42 favorites]


Genuinely fucking inspiring: video comments of formerly disenfranchised first-time voters, via Twitter. *verklempt*
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:08 PM on November 7, 2017 [18 favorites]


you know, I try not to watch Trump, but whenever I do and I'm in a head space where I don't want to rend his image with my claws, I think about how he likes to watch himself on TV with the sound off. Now, I don't cotton to my political leaders thrusting their chin out and punching the air, but it's kind of like a type of appeal I can be like 'yeah I see why people like that.'

Except for the words that come out of his ignorant maw. I teach writing and I tell my students once a week not to write like Trump speaks, because he is an Idiot and Wrong. I could be more diplomatic but IDGAF because I HATE him SO MUCH.
posted by angrycat at 1:09 PM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


I teach writing and I tell my students once a week not to write like Trump speaks, because he is an Idiot and Wrong.

A journalist friend keeps venting to me that she keeps getting pitches from publicists that sound like him. She's convinced that they probably always wrote in that "style" but she didn't notice until hearing Trump became unavoidable.
posted by zarq at 1:14 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


I just voted for Northam on the way home from work, my wife voted this morning already. Our polling place is never crowded, but there was a steady trickle of people coming in, if I had to guess I would put it around par with the 2014 midterm. Well below 2012 or 2016 presidential which are the only times Ive seen a line, but actually alive unlike the primary where we were the only people we saw going in or out.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:20 PM on November 7, 2017 [23 favorites]


In case the 2017 political situation in America didn't sufficiently make you feel that all reality has come apart: this. I don't know, are we experiencing a global crisis of solipsism or something? I barely understand the problem, much less how to approach it. We have an artificial president in an artificial society and words have lost all meaning. I am feeling pretty lost.
posted by prefpara at 1:34 PM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Chrysostom: Bevin made the public statement after Republican Rep. C. Wesley Morgan of Richmond had called Saturday for the resignation of Kentucky House Speaker Jeff Hoover, accusing him and party leaders of concealing sexual harassment allegations against Hoover and three other Republican legislators.

Harassment Scandal Unfolds In Kentucky's State Legislature (NPR, Nov. 7, 2017)
The speaker of the House in Kentucky's state legislature is giving up his leadership post. He is embroiled in a sexual harassment scandal that seems to involve three other Republican lawmakers as well. Kentucky Public Radio's Ryland Barton has more.

RYLAND BARTON, BYLINE: The Louisville Courier-Journal first published allegations last week that House Speaker Jeff Hoover secretly settled a sexual harassment complaint made by a female staffer. According to the report, Hoover exchanged sexually suggestive text messages and requested pictures from the woman in 2016. On Sunday Hoover stepped down from his post as speaker. He denied sexually harassing the staffer, but admitted to exchanging inappropriate texts.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

JEFF HOOVER: I engaged in banter that was consensual. But yet, no mistake, it was wrong on my part to do that. And for that, I am truly sorry.

BARTON: But Hoover says he won't give up his seat in the State House of Representatives. Three other Republican House members have been implicated in the scandal. Though their roles are still unclear, House leaders have removed them from their chairmanships on various committees while they conduct an investigation into the allegations. Governor Matt Bevin has called for everyone involved in the scandal to resign from their elected positions.
...
The allegations surfaced amid a legislative battle over Bevin's proposal to phase out the state's pension system, which would move most future and some current state workers on to 401(k)-style retirement plans. Hoover had spoken out against elements of the proposal. Without mentioning Bevin's name, Hoover said he was being silenced for speaking out.
A joint statement from the other House GOP leaders said House Speaker Pro Tem David Osborne of Prospect will assume “operational control” of the House. (Jack Brammer and Beth Musgrave for Lexington Herald Ledger, Nov. 5, 2017)

FBI confirms it is reviewing sexual harassment allegations in Kentucky Capitol (Daniel Desrochers for Lexington Herald Ledger, Nov. 6, 2017)
The Federal Bureau of Investigation acknowledged Monday that it is looking into details surrounding a sexual harassment scandal in the Kentucky Capitol that led to Jeff Hoover’s resignation Sunday as speaker of the House of Representatives.

“The FBI received information regarding sexual harassment and retaliation claims made by employees working in the state capitol,” said David Habich, a spokesman for the FBI in Louisville. “We are reviewing that information and the allegations surrounding it to determine whether or not there is a violation of federal law.”
I wonder if the retaliation was also consensual.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:35 PM on November 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


With Trump and DeVos both expressing frustration over how little they are actually allowed to do, I'm wondering if this is a direct effect of them being deep in the right-wing media sphere for the last decade. How many times must they have heard what "King Obama" was doing all by himself simply on whim and against all precedent and against congress and against the will of the people? Maybe they were so deep in that rhetoric that they actually believed once they sat on the thrown they too could just decree what was to be done?
posted by jermsplan at 1:35 PM on November 7, 2017 [73 favorites]


prefpara, that's not such a big deal. It's just about status. In the Victorian era you could hire mourners to follow your coffin and make your funeral a bigger deal. Reality may be breaking down, but that's not why.
posted by emjaybee at 1:38 PM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


yeah, well, it turns out running the government is actually nothing like running a business.

Another message Democrats need to repeat every time they are quoted by the media.
posted by Gelatin at 1:40 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


accusing him and party leaders of concealing sexual harassment allegations against Hoover and three other Republican legislators.

Good.
And when this sort of shit hits Democrats, too, as it inevitably will?
Good.
Burn it all down. Burn it all the fuck down.

I'll take the Toby Zeigler bet of all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that Democrats will come out ahead in this, because Republican orthodoxy is so fucking toxic to begin with. But there will be casualties on both sides. And that's fine.

Throw all the harassers and predators on the bonfire, regardless of party. We'll all be healthier for it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:40 PM on November 7, 2017 [36 favorites]


And more state-level drama from Kentucky: How a single sentence split apart the Kentucky House Republican Caucus (Daniel Desrochers for Lexington Herald Ledger, Nov. 5, 2017)
It came tumbling down with a single sentence.

“Right now, Jeff Hoover is Speaker of the House and he has the full support of the caucus,” House Majority Leader Jonathan Shell told a wall of reporters and television cameras Friday.

Those five words — full support of the caucus — were supposed to show unity behind the first Republican Speaker of the Kentucky House of Representatives in 96 years amid troubling allegations of a sexual harassment settlement. Instead, they set in motion a shocking Saturday for Kentucky Republicans, one that exposed several internal rifts in the party.
...
Then Hoover, R-Jamestown, conceded defeat. After adamantly refusing to step down for two days as pressure mounted, Hoover resigned his leadership role Sunday.

Of all people, it was Rep. C. Wesley Morgan, R-Richmond, who first became the voice of moral authority on the matter.

A freshman Representative who had been effectively benched by leadership after a pattern of filing bills that gave the appearance of self-enrichment, he sent out a flurry of tweets late Friday night and early Saturday that called for the resignation of Hoover.

In the process, Morgan revealed that three more GOP lawmakers were accused of sexual harassment and that the House Republican Caucus chief of staff was accused of creating a hostile work environment.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:40 PM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


several reports on Twitter about U.S. Representative Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ); here's one: "Congressman Frank LoBiondo set to retire after this term. NJ-2 is R+1, so it'll be competitive #NJ #elections"

@Nate_Cohn (NYT)
Wow. Probably the single most valuable retirement for Democrats left on the board. Can't name another seat that would go from safe Republican to toss up
posted by chris24 at 1:55 PM on November 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


Mod note: A few deleted; let's not turn this thread into a dumping ground for general "everything is terrible"/"some asshole company somewhere is doing something assy" stories.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:58 PM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]




The jury in the Menendez case doesn't have a verdict, but they have a question:
The panel of seven women and five men asked U.S. District Judge William H. Walls for a definition of the term “senator.” Walls opted not to give them an answer — and also denied their request to have portions of the defense closing arguments read back to them. Instead the judge instructed juror to rely on their memories of earlier court proceedings and reminded them that what the lawyers said is not evidence in the case.
If the case is about a US Senator and the jury, after hearing weeks worth of testimony, is asking what a Senator even is, I have some concerns here.
posted by zachlipton at 2:06 PM on November 7, 2017 [42 favorites]


Re: Jeff Flake signing new gun control bill.
That's pretty great. He seemed flakey (sorry) last night on Daily Show when asked directly if he would support new gun legislation.
edited to add context
posted by numaner at 2:06 PM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


Writing a bill w/ @MartinHeinrich to prevent anyone convicted of domestic violence – be it in criminal or military court – from buying a gun

That's a start - how about to make it illegal for anyone convicted of domestic violence from buyiong or owning or possessing a gun?
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:06 PM on November 7, 2017 [25 favorites]


because that would go into the "they're taking our guns!" territory and he'd never do that as a republican.
posted by numaner at 2:07 PM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


In Texas And Beyond, Mass Shootings Have Roots In Domestic Violence (April Fulton for NPR, Nov. 7, 2017)
A large portion (PDF) of the mass shootings in the U.S. in recent years have roots in domestic violence against partners and family members. Depending on how you count, it could be upwards of 50 percent.
...
NPR's Alison Kodjak recently talked with Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore, Md., about the complexities of gun violence, mass shootings, and the difficulty we have in understanding the people who commit these crimes.

While perpetrators of domestic violence account for only about 10 percent of all gun violence, they accounted for 54 percent of mass shootings between 2009 and 2016, according to the advocacy group Everytown for Gun Safety, so there is a disproportionate link, Webster tells Kodjak.

"Generally, it fits a pattern of easy access to firearms of individuals who have very controlling kind of relationships with their intimate partners and are greatly threatened when their control is challenged," he says.

And yes, there are laws preventing convicted abusers from getting guns, but there is a "girlfriend loophole."

"In our current times, many young people put off marriage for many years," he says, and these domestic partners aren't protected by many existing laws that are largely aimed at spouses and children.
Gun Violence: Comparing The U.S. With Other Countries (Nurith Aizenman for NPR, Nov. 6, 2017)

Editor's Note: This story was originally published in October and has been republished with updates in the wake of the shooting Sunday in Sutherland Springs, Texas.
the U.S. has the 31st highest [gun violence] rate in the world: 3.85 deaths due to gun violence per 100,000 people in 2016. That was eight times higher than the rate in Canada, which had 0.48 deaths per 100,000 people — and 27 times higher than the one in Denmark, which had 0.14 deaths per 100,000.

The numbers come from a massive database maintained by the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, which tracks lives lost in every country, in every year, by every possible cause of death. The figures for 2016 were released this fall. As in previous years, the data paint a fairly rosy picture for much of the world, with deaths due to gun violence rare even in many countries that are extremely poor — such as Bangladesh and Laos, which saw 0.16 deaths and 0.13 deaths respectively per 100,000 people.

Prosperous Asian countries such as Singapore and Japan boast the absolute lowest rates, though the United Kingdom and Germany are in almost as good shape.

"It is a little surprising that a country like ours should have this level of gun violence," says Ali Mokdad, a professor of global health and epidemiology at the IHME. "If you compare us to other well-off countries, we really stand out."

To be sure, there are quite a few countries where gun violence is a substantially larger problem than in the United States — particularly in Central America and the Caribbean. Mokdad says a major driver is the large presence of gangs and drug trafficking. "The gangs and drug traffickers fight amongst themselves to get more territory, and they fight the police," says Mokdad. And citizens who are not involved are often caught in the crossfire.
When our gun violence stats are compared to countries that are beset upon by gangs running drugs, you know that praying isn't enough.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on November 7, 2017 [27 favorites]


If the case is about a US Senator and the jury, after hearing weeks worth of testimony, is asking what a Senator even is, I have some concerns here.

I am all out of evens. It's time to accept we are a nation of Carter Pages, but hopefully with less treason.
posted by Justinian at 2:10 PM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


"Writing a bill that would close the barn doors after the cows get out. Except it's just one barn out of millions, and the cows got out thirty years ago."

You had a chance to support something resembling background checks. You failed. Maybe spend the rest of your days as a Senator doing something other than sanding the rough edges off of your legacy, asshole.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:10 PM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


how about to make it illegal for anyone convicted of domestic violence from buyiong or owning or possessing a gun?

Is the Lautenberg Amendment so badly enforced that legislators are just plain flat unaware that we even have it? Or is this new bill something different?
posted by corb at 2:15 PM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Start small and when the not-quite-as-nuts-as-the-rest realize that everything is still just fine then you can get a little bigger. If we're lucky it starts to pick up momentum and then we end up with marriage equality for all effective gun control.

Take what you can get, celebrate, then push for more.
posted by VTX at 2:16 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Room 641-A: Writing a bill w/ @MartinHeinrich to prevent anyone convicted of domestic violence – be it in criminal or military court – from buying a gun

That's Martin Heinrich (D-NM)! Here's a bit more from CNN.

The duo has also paired up to Introduce Bipartisan Legislation To Complete Parks, Wilderness Areas And Increase Revenues For Schools. It's supported by The Wilderness Society, which was instrumental in the passage of the 1964 Wilderness Act, so it sounds good.

But it looks like they've tried this before.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:18 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Is the Lautenberg Amendment so badly enforced that legislators are just plain flat unaware that we even have it? Or is this new bill something different?

I strongly suspect there's a whole lot of "He shouldn't lose his right to own a gun because of this" thinking out there.

See also, "A rape conviction will destroy this young man's life so let's reduce the severity of charges."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:21 PM on November 7, 2017 [20 favorites]


corb: Is the Lautenberg Amendment so badly enforced that legislators are just plain flat unaware that we even have it? Or is this new bill something different?

Texas Church Shooter Should Have Been Blocked From Owning Guns (Tom Bowman for NPR, Nov. 7, 2017) -- A mistake allowed Devin Kelley to buy guns. [...] The Air Force failed to enter Kelley's assault arrest and conviction in a federal crime database.

I'll go with "badly enforced" in this particular example, assuming the Air Force is covered by the Lautenberg Amendment.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:22 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Start small and when the not-quite-as-nuts-as-the-rest realize that everything is still just fine then you can get a little bigger. If we're lucky it starts to pick up momentum and then we end up with marriage equality for all effective gun control.

Take what you can get, celebrate, then push for more.


It seems clear that this is the way to go, and we should keep internalizing this. It's certainly working for the other side right now, just mirrored and distorted -- instead of incremental progress made in good faith for all, it's a creeping normalization of cuts to civil rights and freedoms. A nick here, a nick there, until suddenly a crashing wave of destruction (and voter disenfranchisement) can be brought down. It's the Upside Down of civic progress.
posted by orbit-3 at 2:23 PM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


corb Is the Lautenberg Amendment so badly enforced that legislators are just plain flat unaware that we even have it?

Yes.

It basically doesn't exist. Even leaving aside the fact that private gun sales without any background check of any sort are legal, it's also just essentially not enforced.

Many states don't report DV convictions to the proper federal authorities, so the database doesn't have all the offenders who should be banned listed. Worse, many states don't put someone on the list unless the person they abuse is actually, legally, married to them.

The Texas shooter, for example, was convicted of domestic violence and technically it was illegal for him to buy a gun. He ticked the box claiming he was legally allowed to buy a gun on the form he filled out, the dealer sold him a gun. Technically that's perjury and he could be put in prison for it, but since he went on to commit mass murder I don't think a little perjury charge really mattered that much to him.

Worse, a great many places are extremely lax about collecting the guns already owned by a person who is convicted of domestic violence. And by "extremely lax" I mean they rely on the perpetrator to self report all the guns they own and personally carry them to the police station. Cops don't show up and search the person's house for guns and ammo.

Basically we're at the same problem we always are with gun control in the USA. Even measures that have been enacted into law and agreed on are undermined by Republican state and local governments, undermined by individual pro-gun fanatics, and impossible to enforce due to the NRA's prohibition on universal background checks.

Absent universal background checks and totally banning all sales that don't involve a background check there's no point in even talking about banning X or Y class of person from owning a gun. They'll own a gun regardless of what laws we pass without universal background checks at the very least.
posted by sotonohito at 2:25 PM on November 7, 2017 [34 favorites]


With over 2 hours to go (at time of tweet), Alexandria was at 47% turnout (42,449 out of 90,317). In 2013, the total turnout was 50% (41,452 out of 83,192).

EDIT: Oops, meant for election thread.
posted by chris24 at 2:26 PM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


> Start small and when the not-quite-as-nuts-as-the-rest realize that everything is still just fine then you can get a little bigger. If we're lucky it starts to pick up momentum and then we end up with marriage equality for all effective gun control.

I'm generally pro-incrementalism, but we're talking about homeopathically thin gruel at this point. The background check mechanism in Manchin-Toomey was explicitly tailored to be about as unobjectionable to so-called reasonable gun owners as possible, yet resistance hero Jeff Flake couldn't bring himself to vote for it. By all means we should take any forward progress, but we can also lament that we have to measure the progress with highly-calibrated scientific instruments, and we can express anger at those who block far more substantive progress, including Jeff Flake.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:26 PM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I strongly suspect there's a whole lot of "He shouldn't lose his right to own a gun because of this" thinking out there.

I worked with a woman years ago who didn’t press charges after her boyfriend beat her up because “he has guns and might lose them because of this.”
posted by ActingTheGoat at 2:27 PM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


I just want to know: when are we as a country going to confront the fact that the thing mass shooters have in common, more than any other characteristic, is that ... they are men?

Men, with guns, that is.

But -- overwhelmingly male. We're not going to stop mass shootings until we control guns, and until we confront the reasons that men commit them.
posted by Dashy at 2:28 PM on November 7, 2017 [29 favorites]


I strongly suspect there's a whole lot of "He shouldn't lose his right to own a gun because of this" thinking out there.

Considering that Clarence Thomas said that pretty much word for word, I think you're right.
“Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor violation suspends a constitutional right?”
That's Justice Thomas asking one of the only questions he's ever asked in his entire career as a Supreme Court Justice to complain that people convicted of domestic violence aren't really all that bad and need to own guns.
posted by sotonohito at 2:28 PM on November 7, 2017 [49 favorites]


Some fun facts about carried interest in the GOP tax bill (carried interest essentially allows private equity fund managers to pass less in taxes on their salaries), from Victor Fleischer, a UCSD tax professor:
I'm getting lots of questions about the GOP amendment on carried interest, which would change the holding period from 1 to 3 years. If you asked staff to design an amendment to "address" carried interest without actually doing a damn thing, this would be it. The vast majority of private equity, VC and real estate investments are held for > 3 years; fund managers would still be taxed at 20%. Deferring compensation (carried interest) for several years does not transform it from a return on labor into a return on capital. The only group hurt by the amendment are activist hedge funds (Icahn, Ackman, etc.). They often hold from 1-2 years. (Schwarzman obviously has more influence than Icahn right now.)

This is not a "fix" of the carried interest loophole. It's a deeply cynical distraction. Moreover, GPs can avoid the new rule by taking nonrecourse loan from the fund to purchase a "capital interest" instead of taking carry. Economics of nonrecourse loan = same as carry, but gets 20% rate. Baldwin/Levin bills would kill workaround. Why not Brady's amendment?
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


“Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor violation suspends a constitutional right?”

Why do we have misdemeanor DV charges? This immediately makes me think of all the people who cannot vote because they were caught with fucking drugs.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:39 PM on November 7, 2017 [51 favorites]


I just want to know: when are we as a country going to confront the fact that the thing mass shooters have in common, more than any other characteristic, is that ... they are men?

Honestly? Never. Short of a war that kills almost all men and leaves women in charge of the planet, we're never going to have the social atmosphere necessary to talk about the ways that angry, entitled, toxic men destroy everything and everyone around them, because doing so would require all men to examine their own behavior and make changes. We can barely even get the men of MetaFilter to step up and take on more emotional labor, and y'all are the self-selecting "good guys" who can sometimes be counted on to acknowledge the ways that toxic masculinity poisons us all. Sometimes. But it's a fight. And if it's a fight with the men who are supposed to be our allies...
posted by palomar at 2:40 PM on November 7, 2017 [51 favorites]


Murkowski and Collins have reportedly told McConnell they will support no tax bill which includes a stealth Obamacare repeal. That all but kills the chances of such a thing happening. I am forced to keep reminding myself that they hold views and vote for other things that I find repugnant so that I don't start to actually like them. Still, good for them on this issue.
posted by Justinian at 2:41 PM on November 7, 2017 [39 favorites]


And if Flake was working on a bill which would confiscate guns then people would be saying Oh that would never pass, he's just grandstanding.

I have three options:

1) Have no Republicans willing to work on any kind of gun legislation;

2) Have two members of Congress work on a bi-partisan bill which might get the ball rolling;

3) Have two members of Congress work on a bi-partisan bill which has no chance of passing at this time.

I will take option two. Just the fact that they are specifically targeting a group with a propensity to buy guns is huge. As of now, it doesn't sound like some minor technicality unlikely to make any difference.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:41 PM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


“Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor violation suspends a constitutional right?”


Sure - a wobbler that gets prosecutorially or judicially discretioned into a felony, especially in a state where felons lose their right to vote permanently. Now, the quibble is "that's not a misdemeanor," but since the act in question is a superposition, well, i'tis and i'tisn't.

I didn't even go to Yale.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 2:45 PM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


“Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor violation suspends a constitutional right?”

Um... how about... the right of free assembly every time someone gets jailed for a misdemeanor? I mean, I'm not a lawyer or anything so maybe I'm just fucking crazy
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:52 PM on November 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


I don’t see why it should be limited to domestic violence. Get convicted for any violent offense, lose the right to own a firearm for life.
posted by monospace at 2:52 PM on November 7, 2017 [21 favorites]


Felons often lose the right to vote. How often does a single vote decide an election? Less often than a single gun facilitates an act of violence.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:55 PM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


“Can you give me another area where a misdemeanor violation suspends a constitutional right?”

My hypothetical response back to Clarence is along the lines of "Can you name another constitutional right that enshrines access to lethal weapons?"
posted by Existential Dread at 2:56 PM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Donald Trump accused of obstructing satellite research into climate change
The row has erupted after a key polar satellite broke down a few days ago, leaving the US with only three ageing ones, each operating long past their shelf lives, to measure the Arctic’s dwindling ice cap. Scientists say there is no chance a new one can now be launched until 2023 or later. None of the current satellites will still be in operation then.

The crisis has been worsened because the US Congress this year insisted that a backup sea-ice probe had to be dismantled because it did not want to provide funds to keep it in storage.

posted by T.D. Strange at 2:58 PM on November 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


Donald Trump accused of obstructing satellite research into climate change

Isn't there some law against the feds just disappearing information? Something that could be used if the D's take 2018?

JFC I can't believe I just had to type that.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:03 PM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Any push to enforce the Lautenberg amendment, or in passing something similar-but-better now, is going to result in fewer domestic violence convictions. And those convictions aren't exactly widespread as it is; it's significant Kelley's conviction was courtesy of the Air Force... which then threw the ball away by neglecting to add him to the National Criminal Information Center database.

Also, my original Kelley-related link, in a previous thread post, only mentioned how he assaulted his wife -- the NYT link includes what I was sure I'd heard initially, that he was a child abuser as well: "On Sunday, Devin P. Kelley joined that fraternity, gunning down 26 people at a church in Texas with an AR-15 military-style rifle that he bought two years after the Air Force convicted him of beating his wife and breaking his young stepson’s skull." (emphasis, and nausea, mine)

He'd plea-bargained to do that year's worth of time, as "the assault on the stepson would have had a maximum of five years" alone. Said stepson was an infant. After the jail time but before he was discharged, Kelley was also the subject of an investigation for sexual assault and rape. Less than a year after that, his girlfriend contacted a friend about being abused: "Deputies who responded told a dispatcher, according to the report, that it was a 'misunderstanding and teenage drama',” though Kelley was a man in his 20s. The couple married two months later, and were estranged at the time of the massacre.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:04 PM on November 7, 2017 [13 favorites]


kicking the problem over to the Senate, which will have a substantially different bill, and both chambers can proceed to hate each other.

So this is happening now even without the House passing anything. WaPo, Damian Paletta, Senate GOP tax bill could delay corporate tax cut and make other big changes that break sharply with House plan. They want to delay the corporate tax cut for a year, but allow immediate deductibility of capital investments, completely end the property tax deduction, and would keep having seven tax brackets, though they may play with the rates and thresholds in as yet unknown ways.

The only thing worse than the GOP tax bill is two GOP tax bills.
posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


Katha Pollitt is on fire. Year One: My Anger Management:
But the main difference is that I hate people now. Well, not all people, of course. Just people who voted for Trump. People who do their own “research” on the Internet and discover there that President Obama is a Muslim and Michelle Obama is a man. People who use the n-word and can’t even spell it right, because—have you noticed?—Trump supporters can’t spell. Well-off people who only care about lowering their taxes. People who said they couldn’t vote for Hillary because of her emails. Excuse me, sir or madam, can you explain to me what an email server even is? People who didn’t believe Trump would bring back coal or build the wall or Make America Great Again, but just wanted to blow things up. Congratulations! We are all living in the minefield you have made.

I know what you’re thinking: you are the problem, Katha, alienating Trump voters with your snobbish liberal elitism and addiction to “identity politics.” [...] Obviously, this offended the pride of the stalwart, mostly white citizens of Trumplandia, possibly because a good proportion of white people would rather not have something if black people get to have it, too. As for pussy-grabbing, sheesh! Men will be men, get over yourselves, ladies. None of that is “identity politics,” though. It is just America.

Actually, Trump voters are not the only people I hate. I also hate Jill Stein voters and Gary Johnson voters and Bernie deadenders with their ridiculous delegates math and people with consciences so delicate they could not bring themselves to pull the lever for Hillary so they didn’t vote at all. I hate everyone who thought there was no “real” difference between the candidates because Hillary was a neoliberal and a faux feminist and Trump was not so bad. [...] I especially hate everyone who thought that electing a reactionary monster would be okay because it would—or could, or might, who can tell?—bring on the revolution. Looking at you, Susan Sarandon and Slavoj Zizek! You are idiots and my heart seethes with wrath against you.

And of course, I hate myself, too. That’s how hate works.
Seconded, every word.
posted by informavore at 3:10 PM on November 7, 2017 [179 favorites]


Reminder, Election Day thread here. First polls close (Virginia) in 48 minutes.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:12 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


The couple married two months later

I think this is the part that makes me despair most of all but I can't articulate why.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:15 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Any push to enforce the Lautenberg amendment, or in passing something similar-but-better now, is going to result in fewer domestic violence convictions.
Yes, and make it practically impossible to get prosecutors to advance domestic violence cases against police officers in all but the most egregious cases.

It doesn't mean that we shouldn't push for enforcement but we shouldn't accept that as enough -- domestic violence and partner abuse need to be taken much more seriously than they are currently.
posted by Nerd of the North at 3:21 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


I think this is the part that makes me despair most of all but I can't articulate why.

Because if no one cares that you’re being abused, enough to protect you from the abuser, why not marry him and make your own safety? Because it is the calculations that women had to make hundreds of years ago and the fact that we are still having to make them now rather than ever being protected from male violence against the women they believe they are entitled to is to fucking weep.

Because men sympathize with men accused of domestic violence because “women be lying” seems more plausible to them than the fact that a guy who’s fun at poker might also be horrible to the women he thinks he owns.
posted by corb at 3:22 PM on November 7, 2017 [68 favorites]


Re: despair

There was possibly an age and definitely a power differential, guy had a long history of abuse and violence, no one believed that she was being abused, he liked buying guns, and they have a young son together? How much choice did she have, or did she feel she had, in these particular circumstances?
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:24 PM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Yeah. That's why.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:32 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


Corb, it's not just the sympathizing. Beyond "benefit of the doubt," it can be "don't want to get my own ass kicked" (men are afraid of other men, too). It's also that violent men can make non-violent, mediocre men look better in comparison, just by existing. It's awful.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:38 PM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Erin Kelly, USA Today: Roger Stone seeks donations to help pay for his defense in Russia probe

I hope his Nixon back tattoo keeps him awake in the dead of night, muttering "we're fucked, Roger, this is worse than last time" through its inky jowls.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:38 PM on November 7, 2017 [62 favorites]


Well that is nightmare fuel. You know he whips off his shirt whenever his back sweats, and it's the debates all over again.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:41 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Republican congressman Ted Poe (TX) is retiring as well.
posted by chris24 at 3:50 PM on November 7, 2017 [15 favorites]


Trump tried to make a surprise visit to the DMZ. They turned back around due to weather. From the pool report:
News: President Trump attempted to make a surprise, unscheduled visit to the Demilitarized Zone separating North and South Korea this morning, but was foiled by a bad weather call and his helicopter, along with your pool, had to turn back and return to Seoul.

Your pool was summoned earlier than originally scheduled Wednesday morning and briefed by Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders about the president's surprise trip to the Demilitarized Zone. "This is where we're going," Ms. Sanders said, holding up a piece of notepaper
on which the letters "DMZ" were scrawled. She said that was the way she had been instructed to alert us to our destination. She said all movements were to be under embargo until the president landed in Seoul following the visit.
posted by zachlipton at 4:14 PM on November 7, 2017 [16 favorites]


WELL DONE TIME TRAVELLERS. YOU KEEP IT UP WITH YOUR FUTURE SCIENCEY WEATHER CONTROLLING WAYS.
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:18 PM on November 7, 2017 [50 favorites]


> She said that was the way she had been instructed to alert us to our destination

wait what

Did they think that North Korea was listening? Was this a cunning plan to avoid giving away information that would be used in some evil way?
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:24 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


Did they think that North Korea was listening? Was this a cunning plan to avoid giving away information that would be used in some evil way?

maybe it was a surprise for little donny and they didn't want him to overhear
posted by halation at 4:26 PM on November 7, 2017 [9 favorites]


A boy can dream, can't he?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:29 PM on November 7, 2017


Did they think that North Korea was listening? Was this a cunning plan to avoid giving away information that would be used in some evil way?

Merely Trump fulfilling a campaign promise.

Trump wants to replace computers with human couriers.
posted by scalefree at 4:33 PM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I still think he wanted to moon North Korea
posted by tivalasvegas at 4:34 PM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Nerd of the North:
If you are represented by Democratic legislators can you please call and tell them that as a constituent you really want to see the party start staking out a strong, unified position that there should be no vote on Trump's proposed tax plan until the president's tax returns and those of the Trump Organization are released and analyzed so the public can see exactly how much the president and his family will benefit from the proposed plan?
Done. (CA, so Feinstein, Harris, and Pelosi.) Great idea - thanks for suggesting it.
posted by kristi at 4:34 PM on November 7, 2017 [28 favorites]


Did they think that North Korea was listening?

I think the short answer is yes, and while this is probably a standard protocol, the likelihood of requiring it is a lot higher than in visits past. It's the latter part -- the brinksmanship -- that's more about the president* than the former part.

I would be Very Surprised if previous presidential visits -- they tend to all do it at some point -- were done without such secrecy. The whole way this was trial ballooned back in October then ostentatiously rejected as a "cliché" suggests choreographed security arrangements.
posted by dhartung at 4:48 PM on November 7, 2017


The American Foreign Service Association (the union that represents members of the Foreign Service, so obliviously an interested party here) provides an update at the carnage at the State Department:
There is no denying that our leadership ranks are being depleted at a dizzying speed, due in part to the decision to slash promotion numbers by more than half. The Foreign Service officer corps at State has lost 60 percent of its Career Ambassadors since January. Ranks of Career Ministers, our three-star equivalents, are down from 33 to 19. The ranks of our two-star Minister Counselors have fallen from 431 right after Labor Day to 369 today—and are still falling.

These numbers are hard to square with the stated agenda of making State and the Foreign Service stronger. Were the U.S. military to face such a decapitation of its leadership ranks, I would expect a public outcry. Like the military, the Foreign Service recruits officers at entry level and grows them into seasoned leaders over decades. The talent being shown the door now is not only our top talent, but also talent that cannot be replicated overnight. The rapid loss of so many senior officers has a serious, immediate, and tangible effect on the capacity of the United States to shape world events.

Meanwhile, the self-imposed hiring freeze is taking its toll at the entry level. Intake into the Foreign Service at State will drop from 366 in 2016 to around 100 new entry-level officers joining A100 in 2018 (including 60 Pickering and Rangel Fellows).
This is all despite Congress's instance that funding be maintained and the State continue to have the same staffing levels as last year. Tillerson is destroying the institution.
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on November 7, 2017 [44 favorites]




yes, there was going to be drinking tonight. But it appears it will be happy drinking and not all-is-darkness drinking.
posted by Justinian at 5:00 PM on November 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


Daily Beast, Kevin Poulsen, Exclusive: Russia Activated Twitter Sleeper Cells for Election Day Blitz: "In its final, climactic push for Donald Trump, the Kremlin’s troll army enlisted new members: semi-dormant propaganda accounts created as far back as 2009."
Evidently anticipating a Trump loss, as nearly everyone did, the trolls’ final election mission was to sow doubt about the legitimacy of the vote, “crippling [Clinton’s] presidency from its start,” according to U.S. intelligence findings. “Democrats BUSTED Breaking Election Law on VIDEO in Ohio,” read a tweet from World News Politics. Then, at 11 a.m. Eastern, “BREAKING : Mass Election Fraud, Voting Irregularities and Discrimination Against Trump Voters Reported #VoterFraud.”
...
At 7:45 p.m., with more than half the votes counted, Trump was slightly ahead with 49.8 percent of the vote to Clinton’s 47.3 percent. It was closer than most pundits had expected, and after endless predictions of an easy Clinton victory, a Trump win began to seem possible. “Trump’s lead in Florida is growing!” TEN_GOP tweeted at 8:24 p.m.

The Russians changed tack and completely abandoned the election fraud message they’d been pushing since dawn, joining with American Trump supporters to celebrate the turn the election was taking. “Alabama is RED!” tweeted “America First!” at 8:33 p.m. “Hope Texas goes red,” added “South Lone Star” three minutes later. “Saddest day for the Media!” TEN_GOP vowed at 10 p.m. “Trump is winning in a landslide!”

The next day, with Trump officially the victor, the popular Russian account “Jenna Abrams” appeared to momentarily break character to share the popular vote tallies from the presidential race and deliver the troll factory's final judgement on America’s 2016 election: “See how your democracy works?”
posted by zachlipton at 5:01 PM on November 7, 2017 [50 favorites]


My bad, didn't stop to check there's a thread for the election today.
posted by scalefree at 5:01 PM on November 7, 2017


> Looks like VA Gov is going to Northam! Projection: Ralph Northam (D) has been elected next governor of VA, defeating Ed Gillespie (R). #VAGOV

Legit thanks for posting that — I have indeed been afraid to look at the election results thread.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:03 PM on November 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


It's looking pretty good for the Dems, so far.
posted by asteria at 5:15 PM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Let us all rise (whether figurativelly or literally) and TTTCS as one, my friends.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:28 PM on November 7, 2017 [15 favorites]




An addition to the Post's tax story:
Trump, meanwhile, on Tuesday made a personal appeal from across the globe to ask moderate Senate Democrats to support the emerging Republican tax plan.

At a meeting of administration officials and Democratic senators, National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn pulled out his cellphone and took a call from Trump, according to multiple attendees.

Trump pitched the plan as a benefit to the middle class that comes at the expense of the rich — an assessment at odds with independent tax experts who have analyzed the bill and concluded that the bulk of its benefits go to corporations and the wealthy.

“The deal is so bad for rich people, I had to throw in the estate tax just to give them something,” Trump said, according to multiple people in the room who heard the president on the phone.

Trump also told the senators that he has spoken to his own accountant about the tax plan and that he would be a “big loser” if the deal is approved as written, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share details of the meeting.
First, why do we have to give rich people anything? Nobody has to get a consolation prize, let alone one worth millions of dollars. And the estate tax isn't something you "throw in," it's a massive tax cut for people with millions of dollars in wealth. But forget that, isn't him asking his own accountant about the plan, as he refuses to release his tax returns, massively inappropriate?
posted by zachlipton at 6:01 PM on November 7, 2017 [57 favorites]


I want to see Trump's accountant's tax returns.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:06 PM on November 7, 2017 [22 favorites]


Trump has delayed his speech in South Korea a bit to "work on the speech". I think that's bullshit and he's in a frothing rage about Virginia and they're trying to get him under control.
posted by Justinian at 6:20 PM on November 7, 2017 [72 favorites]


Maybe they were so deep in that rhetoric that they actually believed once they sat on the thrown they too could just decree what was to be done?

The misspelling was likely voice-to-text and/or accidental, but really, really fun to imagine.

*golf clap*
posted by petebest at 6:21 PM on November 7, 2017 [1 favorite]


I think that's bullshit and he's in a frothing rage about Virginia and they're trying to get him under control.

I've been imagining people holding him down trying to keep the oxygen mask on him.
posted by bongo_x at 6:24 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Trump has delayed his speech in South Korea a bit to "work on the speech"

Yeah I'm sure he has his reading glasses on and is parsing the fine points and double-checking the figures.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:26 PM on November 7, 2017 [55 favorites]


He's finally speaking. Seems very calm. Not gonna speculate on why that might be.
posted by Justinian at 6:27 PM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


Perhaps as expensive as a Virginia class submarine. It would be unfortunate if we ended up with one less of those.

It would. If you knew what those boats (and the alarmingly aging 688s they're replacing) do for us, I think you would agree. I can't say the good stuff, but I know MeFi's general feelings on the military and I still think you would agree.

OTOH, the 21 and 22 boats can eat a... uh, well they make good parts holders for the 23, which while also a high-maintenance princess, at least earns it.
posted by ctmf at 6:29 PM on November 7, 2017 [7 favorites]


waitin for the xanax to kick in, my guess.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:31 PM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump is now promoting his golf club to the South Korean National Assembly and mentioning the Korean golfers who have played there.
posted by zachlipton at 6:37 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


I'm waiting for the "In our crusade against the North Koreans some of you may die, but that is a price I am willing to pay." I'm sure it'll be in there somewhere.
posted by Justinian at 6:39 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm watching Trump tell the South Koreans that North Korea is bad.
posted by bongo_x at 6:39 PM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


Now he's listing all the shitty aspects of North Korea, including "over half of North Korean homes don't have electricity." HEY GUESS WHERE ELSE THAT'S TRUE.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:41 PM on November 7, 2017 [113 favorites]


Is he...Koreasplaining? To Koreans?
posted by zachlipton at 6:44 PM on November 7, 2017 [69 favorites]


Apparently Trump thought he was there to teach a Korean history class.
posted by bongo_x at 6:45 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


The chyron really should be Trump Speaks to South Korea's National Assembly His Deranged Xenophobic Base, As Usual

Nice job on the speech by Stephen Miller, youngest racist uncle.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:45 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


He stumbling over simple words. Pen-IN-SHula. DIS-tri-buted. FOR-getting.
posted by zakur at 6:47 PM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump is now promoting his golf club to the South Korean National Assembly and mentioning the Korean golfers who have played there.

This is illegal. You're - excuse me. *grabs megaphone* YOU'RE SEEING THIS, RIGHT CONGRESS?!?! YOU UNDERSTAND THIS.

Complicit.
posted by petebest at 6:48 PM on November 7, 2017 [94 favorites]


Isn't there a law against Trump saying "bondage"? I feel like there should be.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:57 PM on November 7, 2017 [8 favorites]


Ana Marie Cox: Imagine giving the American version of this speech. “And the American Civil War—it was terrible. And then 9/11 happened! But the Olympics!”
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:58 PM on November 7, 2017 [73 favorites]


My favorite takes are people on twitter saying Trump's reading of the South Korea Wikipedia page is going pretty well.
posted by bongo_x at 7:01 PM on November 7, 2017 [44 favorites]


Trump is now promoting his golf club to the South Korean National Assembly and mentioning the Korean golfers who have played there.

This is illegal. You're - excuse me. *grabs megaphone* YOU'RE SEEING THIS, RIGHT CONGRESS?!?! YOU UNDERSTAND THIS.


Does anyone know off-hand what law specifically this is breaking? I've got some representatives I want to contact about it and would like to cite something specific and my google-fu is weak.
posted by VTX at 7:16 PM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Emoluments Clause
posted by zakur at 7:30 PM on November 7, 2017 [24 favorites]


If you knew what those boats (and the alarmingly aging 688s they're replacing) do for us, I think you would agree...

ctmf, I very likely would agree. In addition, in purely economic terms, just saying "we'll have one less of those, thanks..." does not deliver proportional savings that can be employed elsewhere. Also knock-on economic effects and multipliers will do their knocking on and their multiplying. Less submarines built means less jobs in certain places... and I like people having jobs. Also, I like submarines. A lot.

But.

Let's not say a voluntary buy-back would be too expensive if we decided to do it.
posted by Captain Shenanigan at 7:36 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


After this inspiring election night, I'm looking forward to Muellereterans Day and Muellersgiving Day with a little extra surprise for Black Friday.
posted by perhapses at 7:44 PM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


A brief interlude from Carnac the Magnificent:

Emoluments Clause

[opens envelope]

Who comes to the houses of good boys and girls on Muellermas?
posted by mmoncur at 7:49 PM on November 7, 2017 [117 favorites]




§ 2635.702 Use of public office for private gain.


An employee shall not use his public
office for his own private gain, for the
endorsement of any product, service or
enterprise, or for the private gain of
friends, relatives, or persons with
whom the employee is affiliated in a
nongovernmental capacity

source
posted by mbrubeck at 7:52 PM on November 7, 2017 [41 favorites]


Damn, if Dems keep winning races that actually might be worth a damn again, which will be something!
posted by Artw at 7:54 PM on November 7, 2017 [3 favorites]


Another positive from tonight’s elections: with the Dem winning the NJ Governorship, if Sen. Menendez has to give up his seat because of a conviction, it won’t be Chris Christie appointing his replacement.
posted by darkstar at 8:54 PM on November 7, 2017 [73 favorites]


So, is it just me, or has the Election Day FPP caused this one to grind to a near halt? (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
posted by CommonSense at 9:28 PM on November 7, 2017 [6 favorites]


We grew tired of winning.
posted by perhapses at 9:30 PM on November 7, 2017 [33 favorites]


no way MOAR WINNING
posted by lalex at 10:44 PM on November 7 [+] You hit your favorite limit for the day. [!]


ah, nuts.
posted by mon-ma-tron at 9:47 PM on November 7, 2017 [17 favorites]


Honestly, it’s the first time in a year that I haven’t felt like everything in politics was going completely to crap.
posted by darkstar at 10:24 PM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


LEFTIST CONGA LINE LEFTIST CONGA LINE

Labor is of course at the head, driving the line, but everyone is welcome
posted by The Whelk at 10:25 PM on November 7, 2017 [11 favorites]


The mods might actually have their first good nights sleep in a year.
posted by johnpowell at 10:26 PM on November 7, 2017 [12 favorites]


So this exchange was on the news earlier, from the press conference today with Trump and Moon in South Korea:
MS. SANDERS: The United States' second and final question will go to Ali Vitali from NBC.

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President. You've talked about wanting to put extreme vetting on people trying to come into the United States, but I wonder if you would consider extreme vetting for people trying to buy a gun.

TRUMP: Trying to what?

QUESTION: Buy a gun.

TRUMP: Well, you're bringing up a situation that probably shouldn't be discussed too much right now. We could let a little time go by, but it's okay. If you feel that that's an appropriate question, even though we're in the heart of South Korea, I will certainly answer your question...
And then he goes on to say that if it hadn't been for those two fellows, there would've been "hundreds dead".

What I noticed is that he was practically sneering when he got to: "If you feel that that's an appropriate question". It's like he's taking lessons from Huckabee Sanders.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 10:29 PM on November 7, 2017 [26 favorites]


If you feel that that's an appropriate question

The country you're nominally president of is in the middle of an epidemic of gun violence, mother fucker. Of course it's an appropriate question. Citizens of your country are dying every day because you and your party refuse to even admit there's a problem. Wake the fuck up and answer the question.

(What, did you think people were going to ask you about your speech or your visit to Korea? Everybody in the room understands the geopolitical situation on the Korean peninsula better than you do, Mr. President, seriously, you have nothing to contribute on that topic and everybody knows it but you.)
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:41 PM on November 7, 2017 [35 favorites]


The mods might actually have their first good nights sleep in a year.

Seriously. I don't think they've had to warn us off a topic in hours! Maybe we could all give them a real holiday and try to be good for like a day? Like no crazy derails or infighting tomorrow? As a thank you for the last year.
posted by greermahoney at 10:52 PM on November 7, 2017 [14 favorites]


Like no crazy derails or infighting tomorrow?

You're new here, aren't you? ;-)

Seriously though — THIS.
posted by CommonSense at 10:57 PM on November 7, 2017 [4 favorites]


I wouldn't make any promises, depends on how the news cycle goes tomorrow.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:59 PM on November 7, 2017 [2 favorites]


What I noticed is that he was practically sneering when he got to: "If you feel that that's an appropriate question". It's like he's taking lessons from Huckabee Sanders.

Several people in these threads have said SHS is good at lying. I don't think that's the case at all. She's as transparently bad at lying as Spicer. The thing is, Spicer knew he shouldn't be lying, so he stumbled and gave away the game. Sanders? Sanders doesn't care. She knows everyone knows she's lying, and she doesn't care because she has nothing but contempt for the press.

That's why 45 likes her. That's why his supporters like her. She's not remotely deceptive. She's blunt and hostile. She walks out and gives her middle finger to the critics (aka rational observers). She doesn't lie, she just responds with other words to say "Fuck you."
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:08 PM on November 7, 2017 [79 favorites]


> he was an atheist and antifa-- so completely not their tribe

Is this sourced, or is it just channers and Russian trolls making shit up to get us to kill each other again?


Why the Right Is Obsessed With the Sutherland Springs Shooter’s Atheism: It’s a way to cast blame on the godless left, yes. But it also shows the extent to which guns have become a kind of civil religion.
posted by homunculus at 11:39 PM on November 7, 2017 [10 favorites]


So, did I miss anything while I was in the other thread?
posted by Chrysostom at 11:53 PM on November 7, 2017 [5 favorites]


you didn't miss a thing! scrotus was being an idiot in korea, the ush.

GO CELEBRATE! WEEEEEEEEE
posted by numaner at 12:06 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Ex-Trump bodyguard Keith Schiller doesn't remember anything about a pee tape or any Russians, but prolly that's because his brain was occupied with remembering Trumps McDonald's order
posted by salix at 12:06 AM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


LMAO BECAUSE I'M IN SUCH A GREAT MOOD!!!!

If Lalex gets drunk, does zachlipton start belching, like an Elliot/E.T. situation
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:33 AM on November 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


Barbara Comstock [R-VA-10] has to be thinking of retiring now. Northam won her district 58/41 (vs McAuliffe's 51-46). And the Dem challenger won HD-10, which is almost the same geography by 55-45.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:05 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Sorry, I can't conceive of a situation where lalex have cause to drink where I wouldn't also be drinking.
posted by zachlipton at 1:08 AM on November 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


Daily Beast: Russia Activated Twitter Sleeper Cells for Election Day Blitz
In its final, climactic push for Donald Trump, the Kremlin’s troll army enlisted new members: semi-dormant propaganda accounts created as far back as 2009.
posted by PenDevil at 4:21 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


a situation that probably shouldn't be discussed too much right now.

Enough time has passed since older gun massacres, like, say, Aurora CO, that we can talk about what to do, though, right? Or does the clock get reset every time there is a new one?
posted by thelonius at 4:33 AM on November 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


So are we now looking at all these retirees as potential pick-ups rather than automatic gains for loony Trumpists?
posted by Artw at 5:53 AM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Enough time has passed since older gun massacres, like, say, Aurora CO, that we can talk about what to do, though, right? Or does the clock get reset every time there is a new one?

It's almost like he stumbled so much giving the usual excuse for not never anything that he gave the game away about it being an excuse for never doing anything.
posted by Artw at 5:55 AM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


wasn't the orange douche-pontoon supposed to have 'big news' today or something?
posted by localhuman at 6:02 AM on November 8, 2017


@BySteveReilly: (USA Today)
Corey Lewandowski told me in March interview he didn't give Page an OK to travel to Moscow. Page testified he did, and he has the email. SCREENSHOTS OF TESTIMONY AND ARTICLE


Josh Marshall: After Page testimony, Lewandowski says his memory has been "refreshed".
posted by zombieflanders at 6:06 AM on November 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


Corey Lewandowski: ‘My Memory Has Been Refreshed’ on Carter Page Email
Corey Lewandowski appeared on Fox News tonight to defend himself after, despite previous insistence that he doesn’t know Carter Page, did in fact interact with him.

Lewandowski said in a previous Fox News interview, “I’ve never met or spoken to Carter Page in my life.”

However, Page testified that not only did he interact with Lewandowski, but Lewandowski had been made aware of his Russia trip.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:07 AM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Thank you every voter for making that less crushingly depressing than it could be.
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on November 8, 2017 [32 favorites]


I guess my wish won’t come true on this thread, but you know what? The election results are maybe even better than a simple indictment or two.

What’s the thinking on how this election bloodbath is going to affect the GOP’s stance on enforcing various laws Trump is actively violating, from emoluments and conflicts of interest on down to plain old nepotism?
posted by Andrhia at 6:28 AM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


What happened last night is going to make things interesting going forward. What I’m hoping is that this is the beginning of the GOP ripping themselves apart from the inside. You look at what happened all over the country in state and local elections. The Dems were flipping seats like pancakes, including a lot of seats that were considered safe. The GOP flipped one seat that I know of and that’s it. You see this nationally and it’s plainly obvious that this was a referendum on Trump. Now GOP congresscritters have to figure out what to do. Do they “stand up to Donald Trump” (whatever that entails? Or do they double down? Here’s their big problem: the primaries are coming up. Treat Trump like the liability that he obviously is, and you’re going to face some batshit insane primary opponent who appeals to the base. Double down on supporting Trump and you’re looking at getting bounced in the general. Lose a primary to a Trumpet and that seat is likely to flip, which the national GOP already knows very well. That question of how to deal with the Trump problem is where I can see them tearing themselves apart.
posted by azpenguin at 6:45 AM on November 8, 2017 [41 favorites]


The Dems were flipping seats like pancakes

My new election night tradition is pancakes for dinner!
posted by Room 641-A at 6:53 AM on November 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


I'm a County poll inspector. PTSD from last year came up informally. People were HAPPY to be voting. Like it was therapeutic.
posted by mikelieman at 6:54 AM on November 8, 2017 [58 favorites]


It’s looking like Martha McSally is going to run for Flake’s Senate seat. If so, CD-2 here in AZ is very likely to flip to Dem. This is Gabrielle Giffords’ old seat. It’s R+4, but this seat has traded hands a fair bit. I don’t know who the GOP will run down here who might be able to hold this district.
posted by azpenguin at 6:59 AM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


What’s the thinking on how this election bloodbath is going to affect the GOP’s stance on enforcing various laws Trump is actively violating, from emoluments and conflicts of interest on down to plain old nepotism?

I dunno, the analogy that comes to mind is rats deserting a sinking ship, here's a list of (R)s who are either retiring or seeking another office:

GOP Representatives:

Tim Murphy, Retiring [Because of a sex scandal, ed.]
John Duncan, Will not seek reelection
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Retiring
Frank LoBiondo, Retiring
Jeb Hensarling, Retiring
Dave Reichert, Retiring
Sam Johnson, Retiring
Lynn Jenkins, Retiring
Lamar Smith, Retiring
Charlie Dent, Retiring
Pat Tiberi, Resigning
John Taylor, Retiring
Dave Trott, Retiring
Ted Poe, Retiring
Honorable mention: Representative Jason Chaffetz, who retired in June of this year

GOP Senators:

Jeff Flake, Will not seek reelection
Orrin Hatch, Retiring (Rumored, not verified)
Bob Corker, Retiring

On one hand, this seems encouraging, on the other hand, there are not a whole lot of places left for the rats who choose to hang on. To start enforcing laws that they should have been enforcing the whole time is essentially admitting defeat. The choices for Republicans who want to stay in office seems to be:

a.) Stay as quiet as possible and keep running away from reporters and constituents.
b.) Continue to double-down on partisan rhetoric and "Trumpism" (whatever the fuck that is).
c.) Grow a spine, rid their party of Trump and while they're at it define some well thought-out policies and strategies for a future that doesn't involve selling out their voter base to corporate and donor interests.
.
.
.
Sorry, I had an extended fit of laughter & crying while typing out that last point.
posted by jeremias at 7:00 AM on November 8, 2017 [32 favorites]


More on Tucson Congresswoman Martha McSally entering the 2018 Senate race for Jeff Flake's seat. She's notable for whining to donors about her constituents associating her with Trump while being the AZ Congressional delegation's most reliable vote for Trump's agenda. McSally is in the McCain/Flake line of apparently regretting Trump's personality/words but still being in line with his actual policies. Which appeals to neither Democrats, progressives, nor the far right that Kelli Ward happily represents. I'd been assuming she'd be the likely successor to McCain's Senate position, but Flake choosing not to re-run has changed that. (I guess, though, that if McCain is ever unable to finish his term--which I hope doesn't happen--at least this gives Governor Ducey an obvious non-Kelli-Ward option to appoint to finish said term.) Despite the amount of Trump flags that fly (literally) here, this district is ready to flip. Ann Kirkpatrick is one of the most recent Democrats to announce her intent to run for McSally's seat, and I appreciated Matt Heinz's campaign during 2016.

If Sinema's really the Democrat best able to win Flake's seat, I'm ready to campaign for her, though I wish we could pull the state a little further left. Especially after seeing all the local-elsewhere victories elsewhere last night.
posted by mixedmetaphors at 7:10 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


> 1. The President is calling in from South Korea to try to win over Senate Democrats. He doesn't seem to be actually offering them anything, at all, just suggesting that they don't understand the bill and that it really won't hurt the middle class and the poor (it will). He's...not a very good deal-maker?

He probably assumes that they're too lazy, as he is, to bother checking the details and will just take him at his word.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:15 AM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Boston Globe opinion, heh: "...If [Republicans] have any expectation that the White House is going to have their political back, Trump quickly disabused them of that notion. Gillespie’s political corpse was still warm when the president, preparing to deliver a major speech in South Korea, tweeted out that 'Ed Gillespie worked hard but did not embrace me or what I stand for.'" All that winning again...
posted by Melismata at 7:17 AM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Echoing some sentiments above: Republican committee chairmen are retiring in droves, despite unified control of Congress (Daily 202: James Hohmann, Washington Post with Breanne Deppisch and Joanie Greve)
Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee spokesman Meredith Kelly said the GOP chairmen are “dropping like flies” because “it’s nothing short of miserable to be part of Speaker Paul Ryan’s establishment Congress.” “These retiring Republicans have seen the writing on the wall, and they’re not waiting around for the midterms,” she said.
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:19 AM on November 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


jeremias: "Tim Murphy, Retiring [Because of a sex scandal, ed.]"

Just to expand on this, the sex scandal was the proximate cause, but it appears the party was putting heavy pressure on him to not run again, due to some very unsavory behavior in his office. Bad enough the House Ethics Committee was getting involved.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:19 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


OK, nuts & bolts question for anyone who can speculate:

Among many other awfulnesses, I am very worried about the taxation of tuition benefits. This would radically alter the research enterprise of universities.

We are in the process (as is every other U) of recruiting and admitting graduate students for next fall. Would this proposed plan, wherein those grad students would be taxed on $80,000 of real + imputed income, to be paid from their $25,000 stipends, go into effect in 2018?
posted by Dashy at 7:33 AM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Hmm, Gillespie only won VA-7 51-47. That's raving nutjob Dave Brat's district....
posted by Chrysostom at 7:33 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


"didn't embrace me or what I stand for"

This all comes down to hugs, doesn't it.
posted by aspersioncast at 7:35 AM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


If Sinema's really the Democrat best able to win Flake's seat, I'm ready to campaign for her, though I wish we could pull the state a little further left. Especially after seeing all the local-elsewhere victories elsewhere last night.

I agree, but you know what? First let's win this then worry about pulling it left. Sinema would be far better than anyone the GOP would put forward. My far, far fetched wish is that the Dems would win back the legislature. That's extremely unlikely, but if they did manage to pull that off, I'd want them to spend the next two years ripping apart everything the GOP has been doing to cities, schools, gun rights, etc. The pre-emption bills should be the first to go,
posted by azpenguin at 7:38 AM on November 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


“The deal is so bad for rich people, I had to throw in the estate tax just to give them something,” Trump said, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to share details of the meeting.

"my boss would kill me if i go that low on that car, you gotta believe me, we're already losing money on this deal. tell you what, you buy the undercoating and i'll go talk to him and see what i can do" –every lying two-bit salesweasel ever
posted by entropicamericana at 7:39 AM on November 8, 2017 [95 favorites]


The Moscow Times reports, "President Vladimir Putin will meet U.S. President Donald Trump at a summit in Vietnam this weekend after all, Russia’s Foreign Minister confirmed Wednesday. [...] 'President Putin is ready for this, the Americans know,' Lavrov was cited by the Interfax news agency as saying from the Vietnamese city of Da Nang. [...] Lavrov also announced plans to discuss North Korea, Syria, Iraq and Ukraine with U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson at APEC."

Won't Trump and Putin have ever so much to catch up about since their last tête-à-tête over the summer? And, if that previous meeting is anything to go by, won't it be interesting to see what lines of attack Trump will launch on the Mueller investigation afterward?
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:47 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


“I'm saying, that the Tru TurnCoat, you don't get it, you get oxidation problems and it'll cost you a heck of a lot more than $500…”
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:49 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


This is what New York City's results look like.

The Borough Presidents all won re-election, as expected. James Oddo (Staten Island) is the only Republican. The rest are Dems who ran explicitly anti-Trump campaigns. Melinda Katz' (Queens) mailers said it best:
"We're making sure Queens is a home for EVERY kind of family." and "It's ironic that Queens is the childhood home of Donald Trump. Because even though he may come from here, he sure doesn't share our values."

Across the board, almost every single candidate who ran a pro-immigration/immigrants campaign won last night. Except in Staten Island, which is typically a Republican stronghold.

"Dump the Mayor" Mayoral Candidate Bo Dietl lost last night with about 1% of the vote. He was in both televised debates and spent over a million dollars. He's taking it well:

@BoDietl: Good morning @frankmorano I Lost last night but I’m still a multimillionaire your still a Fat Looser in the looser Reform party
7:41 AM - 8 Nov 2017 from Manhattan, NY
posted by zarq at 7:49 AM on November 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


Looser reform!
posted by ian1977 at 7:53 AM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Hey, someone's got to carry the mantle of barely literate fucknuggets. Good job finding your purpose, Bo.
posted by palomar at 7:54 AM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Oh good lord, somehow I missed the fact that this trip had him going to Vietnam as well. I can't even begin to imagine what garbage is going to come out of his mouth.
posted by elsietheeel at 7:54 AM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Srsly, y kant Trumpetz spel?
posted by petebest at 7:58 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Gosh, maybe Trump will use his meeting with Putin to detail the additional sanctions on Russia mandated in October.
posted by effluvia at 8:00 AM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


"Deals that are bad for rich people" is like a child's idea of what Democrats might be excited by.
posted by Artw at 8:05 AM on November 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


dashy: Would this proposed plan [the taxation of tuition benefits], wherein those grad students would be taxed on $80,000 of real + imputed income, to be paid from their $25,000 stipends, go into effect in 2018?

The right answer here is: no one knows. This is still a draft bill, and will be amended before it gets a vote in the House. Then it has to be reconciled with a Senate bill, if the Senate can even pass a tax bill. There is no way - no responsible way - to start planning for the taxation of tuition benefits.

(Note that there are also provisions to levy excise taxes on endowments. I can't believe university lobbyists aren't going to fight tooth and nail to kill this set of provisions.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:06 AM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Background on Dietl, if anyone cares. The candidate was a train wreck.
...Dietl grabbed a bottle of what looked like vitamins but upon closer inspection turned out to be a male-enhancement pill called Vesele. He took a few with a swig of SmartWater. “You wanna know the best vitamins?” he asked. He tore into a different package. “Right here. These I looooohvvee. You should start taking these. These are natural fruit and vegetables. And these I take, I take three of these a day. Makes you feel great. These are all fruits and vegetables. Balance of Nature — you ever heard of it on the radio? Only fruits and vegetables. Really, really good.” As I glanced at them, he whisked away the bottle of Vesele. “Not this one,” he said, “this is a — I don’t even know what this does.”

Dietl later called to claim he’d asked his doctor what the Vesele pills were for, and he learned they were for his blood flow to help his diabetes. “They were not male enhancement pills!” he said, “If I wanted male enhancement, I’d buy Viagra.”

posted by zarq at 8:09 AM on November 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


Fusion GPS Co-Founder Met With Russian Lawyer Hours Before and After Donald Jr. Rendezvous
A key figure behind the opposition-research firm Fusion GPS — the group responsible for creating the unverified dossier on Donald Trump — reportedly met with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya before and after her meeting with Donald Trump Jr. on behalf of his father’s presidential campaign.

According to Fox News, hours prior-to and just following the June 2016 meeting between Donald Jr. and Veselnitskaya in Trump Tower, Glenn Simpson — a founder of Fusion GPS and former reporter for the Wall Street Journal — met with the Russian lawyer in a New York City courtroom. The report also states a source confirms the two met after the Trump Tower rendezvous.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:12 AM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


I don't think there was actually a high likelihood that Trump was going to bring up Duterte's record, but ...

I am hoping that one of them will feel like the other has insulted him and then a fight will break out.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:21 AM on November 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


That Dietl piece is hilarious. Among the gems: "Dietl retired from the police force in 1985 to become a private detective and public personality, known for a demeanor that’s like Joe Pesci, if Joe Pesci were an auctioneer."
posted by Melismata at 8:24 AM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Trump pitched the plan as a benefit to the middle class

That was, by the way, also the gist of NPR's reporting the day it was released, uncritically repeating the Republican claims that it's a middle class tax cut. Later analysis by NPR shows once again tat Republicans are lying liars who lie, but a lot of NPR's listeners during drive time probably just heard the "$1200 average Tax cut" headline. They could have also mentioned the huge tax cuts for the rich, but since the Republican press release understandably kept those on the QT, NPR's reporting did too. Nice going.
posted by Gelatin at 8:24 AM on November 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


When a number of prominent anti-NRA candidates won their (re)election bids, maybe we can start talking about gun violence like adults. Let's start here: Does Increased Gun Ownership Help Decrease Crime? NO. (NPR, Nov. 7, 2017)
Stanford law professor John Donohue's research offers some clues as to the impact of so-called good guys with guns on violent crime rates. He's looked at more than 30 years of data from states with right-to-carry laws.
...
DONOHUE: Yes, we were looking at data across all 50 states and the District of Columbia over the period from 1977 through 2014 to evaluate what the impact on violent crime would be when a state adopted a right-to-carry law that allowed citizens to carry concealed weapons outside the home.

SIEGEL: And what did you find?

DONOHUE: The basic finding was that the net effect of allowing citizens to carry concealed handguns was an increase in violent crime, which essentially rose to about a 15 percent increase after 10 years of existence of the right-to-carry law.

SIEGEL: And were you able to look inside the numbers and see why that was? That is, were there that many more domestic abuses that turned into homicides or that many more suicides by - with a gun? What was the big difference?

DONOHUE: Well, none of our data focused on suicides, but basically, the single biggest effect seemed to be an increase in aggravated assaults. Now, that can be either altercations caused by the permit holder or because their guns are stolen and therefore made available to criminals. And also because increased right to carry does complicate the task for police and therefore sort of serves as a impediment to good policing. And the one thing we know is good policing is probably the single most important thing in curtailing crime.
Emphasis mine.

Also, when you have the option to revive a "one-gun purchase-per-month" law as a form of gun control (I'm talking about you, Virginia), I think it's time to push back against the NRA, and push hard.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:26 AM on November 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


4. It should be expected that the administration is at least feeling out Senate Democrats on a prospective tax bill, but from the (reported) lack of any concessions being offered at all, it sounds like they're still going to try to pass this through reconciliation, with all-Republican votes, and aren't actually open to a genuinely bipartisan reform. Which, okay, is kind of a given at this point, but it's at least a piece of confirmation for that.

It's also confirmation that the Trump Not-A-Great-Dealmaker Administration isn't fully confident about getting 50 Republican votes -- on a tax cut proposal -- and is hedging its bets, or at least wants to be seen as hedging its bets. Either way you slice it, it signals weakness for the Trump agenda, and Dems would do well to capitalize on that.

Hey, maybe Democrats could take a page from the Olympia Snowe playbook and demand a lot of concessions that'll anger the Republican base, then vote against it anyway?
posted by Gelatin at 8:28 AM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


I just called Senator Toomey's office* and his staffer said "The senator supports the House's tax plan is working on the Senate's bill." It's an interesting statement full of contradiction and ambiguity. But I think the upshot is that they are following the same tactic that they tried on healthcare. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense but I think reflects the deep divisions within the GOP and the immense pressure they feel to pass something -- and pass it quickly.

Fingers crossed that yesterday makes them even more panicked and, therefore, sloppy.


*I've started far too many sentences that way in the past 11 months.
posted by mcduff at 8:31 AM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


That Dietl piece is hilarious. Among the gems: "Dietl retired from the police force in 1985 to become a private detective and public personality, known for a demeanor that’s like Joe Pesci, if Joe Pesci were an auctioneer."

I especially liked this part:
"But at its core, Dietl’s campaign platform is about rejecting the idea of de Blasio, who offends Dietl’s sensibilities for reasons he’s overexcited about and yet can’t quite articulate. The distaste seems to constellate around several perceptions: De Blasio is incompetent; he’s constantly late; he lacks enthusiasm for the Yankees; he’s unwilling to eat hot dogs or popcorn at Yankees games; he doesn’t seem interested in taking the subway alone; he doesn’t care enough about children — and so on. “Oh my god. I’m listening to him now,” Dietl told me, still watching the debate. “I want to throw up.”"
De Blasio's a lifelong Red Sox fan. He doesn't just "lack enthusiasm for the Yankees." He roots against them. As would any member of Red Sox Nation. De Blasio went to a Mets v Sox game a couple of years ago and rooted for the Sox. From the cheap seats, like any good Queens resident. (He also had a hot dog.) Did Mets fans whine and complain? No. We didn't notice he was there.

The issue came to a head last month:
There was a brief moment last week when it appeared that Mayor Bill de Blasio, an alleged lifelong Red Sox fan, would discard his principles and pander to some of his constituents by rooting for the Yankees. This, of course, was shameful—just as a dog should not walk on his hind legs, it is against the rules of nature for a Red Sox fan to root for the Yankees. Thankfully, unlike affordable housing there are some things de Blasio won't compromise on, and he has assured his constituents he will not cheer for the Bronx Bombers.
...
It's important to remain true to your team, especially if your team despises the New York Yankees, whose fans were so brutal to me, a Mets fan, during the 2000 Subway Series that I put a curse upon the majority of my sixth grade class. The Mets will one day have their revenge, though they'll probably squander it somewhere in the 8th inning.
Damn right.
posted by zarq at 8:39 AM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


Also from NPR: yesterday, this was the featured article on the Texas mass shooting, featuring FBI at the scene of a shooting at the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, Texas. In the afternoon, they ran an article with the headline "Texas Shooter's History Raises Questions About Mental Health And Mass Murder" and chose this picture of Trump, which felt like a bit of shade on Trump's mental well-being, even equating him with the Texas shooter.

But the article itself was another example of trying to counter Trump's lies:
And President Trump, like many people before him, is pointing to mental health — not guns — as the cause of the church massacre.

"Mental health is your problem here. This was a very, based on preliminary reports, this was a very deranged individual, a lot of problems over a long period of time. We have a lot of mental health problems in our country, as do other countries," he said in a news conference in Japan on Monday.

And yet the statistics don't bear this out. Yes, some people with mental illness become mass shooters but most people with mental health problems — which is estimated to be up to 18 percent of adults, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation — do not.
Bethany Lilly, from the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law: "There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection, according to all experts, doesn't exist." And "this administration's record on mental health has been abysmal," from his very early and quiet repeal of an Obama era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun (NBC News, Feb. 28, 2017), to trying to undermine the ACA any way he can, as "the Affordable Care Act was the largest expansion of mental health services in the past 30, 40 years," in that it requires insurance companies to cover mental health and substance use disorder services.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:39 AM on November 8, 2017 [21 favorites]


*I've started far too many sentences that way in the past 11 months.

Even one sentence with "Senator Toomey" in it is too many.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:41 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


> Background on Dietl, if anyone cares. The candidate was a train wreck.

I asked Dietl if he’d ever said anything racist before. “Probably!” he said, without pausing, and then he offered: “And I’ve probably used the N-word! You gotta remember something; I was a detective and a cop in the 1970s.”

Dietl’s pitch is part law and order, part New York nationalism, all suffused with the drama and heroism surrounding his time as a decorated NYPD detective. (He wrote a book called One Tough Cop...


So he's basically a real-life version of Jimmy Brogan on Brooklyn 99.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:41 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Ronna McDaniel, Chair of the RNC, says "Hats Off To Donald Trump For Giving The American People What They Want"

...'what they want' appears to be more democratic legislators, so hats off, indeed!
posted by halation at 8:44 AM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Bethany Lilly, from the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law: "There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection, according to all experts, doesn't exist." And "this administration's record on mental health has been abysmal," from his very early and quiet repeal of an Obama era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun (

those two things don't add up at all. If no connection between mental illness and mass shootings exists, why is it bad to repeal a discriminatory law barring people with mental illnesses from doing something everyone else can do?

mind you, I am in favor of banning absolutely everybody from buying guns, starting with the cops and working outwards from there, so I was not particularly opposed to this regulation. and the people I have known who were absolutely outraged by the idea that their mental troubles should mean they can't have the same freedom to shoot people everybody else does, in full honesty I'm not sorry they couldn't, abstract unfairness notwithstanding, and since I don't believe gun ownership should be a right, I did not get all that mad about the violation of their rights.

but what do people think they're criticizing, exactly, when they criticize the repeal of this regulation? Is there some data to indicate that people with mental illnesses who were barred from purchasing guns were more likely to commit shootings in general, just not mass shootings? I am not under the impression that the exclusions targeted people with suicidal inclinations in any useful way but I may be wrong.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:46 AM on November 8, 2017


Was that "hats off" piece scheduled for today no matter what happened? It seems...ill-timed.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:49 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Mental health issues may or may not contribute significantly to mass shooting likelihood. As noted, they are certainly not a direct predictor, nor can you group all types of these issues under "mental health" and make intelligent generalizations about them. It's like classifying a calf cramp, a torn ACL and amputation as "leg issues."

But what I do know is that a) most mass shooter mug shots look like earls and dukes of the Freak Kingdom, and b) no matter what plane of mental reality you inhabit, you have no reason to own or obtain an AR-15.
posted by delfin at 8:49 AM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


I realized a while back that when Republicans talk about "mental health" with respect to mass shooters, they don't actually mean mental health in the way the rest of us use that term. They're not talking about actual disorders that can be diagnosed and treated. They mean "something wrong in the head," in some vague, non-medical way that basically serves to hand-wave away causation. There's nothing you can do: some people are just fucked-up in the head! And we keep talking past each other, because we're not talking about the same thing at all.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:49 AM on November 8, 2017 [64 favorites]


Srsly, y kant Trumpetz spel?

I'm assuming that they lack whatever filter most of us have that makes us go back and correct the words underlined in red before we click "submit." Which is unfortunate, because if that filter was present, perhaps it would mercy-strangle the typer before he had a chance to spread his message.
posted by Mayor West at 8:50 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


To get better at spelling you have to be able to admit to yourself that you've made a mistake and take action to correct those mistakes.

Does that sound like something a Trumpist would be capable of?
posted by VTX at 8:53 AM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


(Also lots of wonderful people are terrible at spelling for various reasons, so can we not with that one?)
posted by ITheCosmos at 9:03 AM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


My favorite takes are people on twitter saying Trump's reading of the South Korea Wikipedia page is going pretty well.

Just caught up on his speech to the South Korean Parliament... a notable omission, amongst all of the praise for RoK democratic achievements, is that he chose to leave out the eminently laudable impeachment and detention for trial of the intolerably-corrupt President Park Geun-hye earlier this year after massive popular protests.

Gee, I wonder why he wouldn't want to praise a country for impeaching and arresting a corrupt president.
posted by XMLicious at 9:06 AM on November 8, 2017 [26 favorites]


Johnstown Never Believed Trump Would Help. They Still Love Him Anyway.
What I heard from Schilling is overwhelmingly what I heard in my follow-up conversations with people here that I talked to last year as well. Over the course of three rainy, dreary days last week, I revisited and shook hands with the president’s base—that thirtysomething percent of the electorate who resolutely approve of the job he is doing, the segment of voters who share his view that the Russia investigation is a “witch hunt” that “has nothing to do with him,” and who applaud his judicial nominees and his determination to gut the federal regulatory apparatus. But what I wasn’t prepared for was how readily these same people had abandoned the contract he had made with them. Their satisfaction with Trump now seems untethered to the things they once said mattered to them the most.

“I don’t know that he has done a lot to help,” Frear told me. Last year, she said she wouldn’t vote for him again if he didn’t do what he said he was going to do. Last week, she matter-of-factly stated that she would. “Support Trump? Sure,” she said. “I like him.”
Anniversary of the Apocalypse
But this nightmare year has upended assumptions about the durability of the rules, formal and informal, governing our politics. There’s a metaphysical whiplash in how quickly alarm turns into acceptance and then into forgetfulness. It was astonishing when Trump installed Steve Bannon as his chief strategist, a man who had previously run a white nationalist tabloid; now it feels like ages ago that he was even in the White House. (He’s been gone less than three months.)

It was staggering when credible evidence emerged that one of the president’s former national security advisers, Sebastian Gorka, was a member of a Nazi-aligned Hungarian group called the Vitezi Rend, and even more staggering when that revelation didn’t immediately end his White House career.

Hannah Arendt once wrote of the role vulgarity played in undermining liberalism in pre-totalitarian societies: “The temporary alliance between the elite and the mob rested largely on this genuine delight with which the former watched the latter destroy respectability.”
How the “King of Fake News” built his empire - "Fake news afforded a better life for Jestin Coler and his family, but it came with a high price: his dignity"

Terror Is The Wrong Word: A Bike Path Victim And His World - "Grief for Nicholas Cleves, and the strength of millennial New York."
Call us elitists, call us naive, call us what you want, but Nicholas is the best possible argument for our ideas, our values, and the world our children are going to make. He’s not a martyr, he didn’t die for anything good. We’d rather have him, the real Nick, with all his imperfections, but this is what this event left us with. He’s our soldier, our standard-bearer, in his kindness, his openheartedness, his hopefulness about the future. This thought would have surprised and amused him, wry, modest fellow that he was. That sweet man, too precious to lose.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:08 AM on November 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


Lepage refusing to implement Medicaid expansion until fully funded.

This is the hill he's determined to die on. Except he's term limited and couldn't possibly have federal aspirations.
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


To get better at spelling you have to be able to admit to yourself that you've made a mistake and take action to correct those mistakes.

Does that sound like something a Trumpist would be capable of?


Politico: Johnstown Never Believed Trump Would Help. They Still Love Him Anyway. "In a depressed former steel town, the president’s promises don’t matter as much as they once did"
A year later, the local unemployment rate has ticked down, and activity in a few coal mines has ticked up. Beyond that, though, not much has changed—at least not for the better. Johnstown and the surrounding region are struggling in the same ways and for the same reasons. The drug problem is just as bad. “There’s nothing good in the area,” Schilling said the other day in her living room. “I don’t have anything good to say about anything in this area. It’s sad.” Even so, her backing for Trump is utterly undiminished: “I’m a supporter of him, 100 percent.”[...]

“I don’t know that he has done a lot to help,” Frear told me. Last year, she said she wouldn’t vote for him again if he didn’t do what he said he was going to do. Last week, she matter-of-factly stated that she would. “Support Trump? Sure,” she said. “I like him.”

When I asked Del Signore about the past year here, he said he “didn’t see any change because we got a new president.” He nonetheless remains an ardent proponent. “He’s our answer.”

I asked Schilling what would happen if the next three years go the way the last one has.

“I’m not going to blame him,” Schilling said. “Absolutely not.”

Is there anything that could change her mind about Trump?

“Nope,” she said.
Cognitive dissonance is now the Trumpists' default frame of mind, e.g. “But I like him because he does what he says.”, “Trump’s probably the most diligent, hardest-working president we’ve ever had in our lifetimes. It’s not like he sleeps in till noon and goes golfing every weekend, like the last president did.”, “I haven’t run into anybody who’s said they’d never vote for him again.”
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:10 AM on November 8, 2017 [26 favorites]



Was that "hats off" piece scheduled for today no matter what happened? It seems...ill-timed.


i assume it was long-slated for publication today, to mark the occasion of the Anniversary Of Glorious Leader's Victory, but like the daily Megan Amram tweet, circumstance has transformed it into a delightful thing
posted by halation at 9:10 AM on November 8, 2017




It's interesting though.

Lots of people are bad at spelling for various reasons. Language is hard and that kind of detailed consistency isn't something that humans are typically good at.

If someone calls me out on a mistake that I didn't see, I don't usually get combative about it. It's just, "Woops, thanks." Plenty of people have a negative gut reaction but they at least acknowledge the mistake.

But I've seen some people get really upset about it no matter how gently you bring it up. They'll double down on the error and relentlessly attack the person that had the temerity to point out that they made a mistake. It can get really toxic and aggressive really fast and it's really weird. I would bet good money that this later group is almost exclusively toxic males of the kind that still support Trump.
posted by VTX at 9:16 AM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Lepage refusing to implement Medicaid expansion until fully funded.

He's defining "fully funded" as the state contributing"hundreds of millions of dollars" rather than the 50 million the state would actually be required to pony up.

I'm not a lawyer, but that does not seem legal to me? Especially since the law requires the Dept of Health and Human Services to implement the bill within 180 days.

Can he realistically block the expansion at this point?
posted by zarq at 9:23 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


But I've seen some people get really upset about it no matter how gently you bring it up.

I think some folks' definition of intellectual elitism has expanded to include rules of grammar and spelling. Like spelling and grammar are now ivory tower liberal things. I recall a frequent defense of GWB was that he often said the wrong thing, but his supporters knew what he meant.

Disclaimer - I am probably in the bottom 5% of MeFi users in regards to my spelling and grammar. I'm also severely dyslexic. Every spelling error pains me so I'm grateful when somebody else catches them before the five minute window.

posted by Joey Michaels at 9:24 AM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Petula Dvorak, WaPo: Flipping off President Trump has changed Juli Briskman’s life — and exposed our divisions
Early Monday morning when I wrote about her, Briskman had 24 Twitter followers. Now? She has almost 16,000, and it’s growing by the hour.

Her name became a trending hashtag. She’s sorting through scores of job offers and has more than $19,000 in a “Thank You Juli Briskman” GoFundMe account that she had absolutely nothing to do with starting. She was bombarded with interview requests from all over the world — TMZ even sent a reporter to stand in the pouring rain to plead for time with her. And she was the topic of office and online conversations all over the country.

“At this point, it’s bigger than me,” she texted me Tuesday, “and not about me anymore.”
Benjamin Sachs, WaPo: It should be illegal to fire the cyclist who gave Trump the finger
A legal precedent that’s already on the books offers courts a road map for offering this protection. Novosel v. Nationwide Insurance, decided in 1983, involved a private-sector employee who was discharged after he refused to participate in a lobbying effort on his employer’s behalf. When he was fired, he sued, claiming that his discharge was contrary to the public policy of the state. In something of a groundbreaking decision, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit held for the employee. The court reasoned that public policy could be derived from the First Amendment, that the First Amendment protects political freedom, and therefore that actions taken by employers that significantly impinge on political freedoms (such as firing an employee who refuses to take part in an employer’s lobbying campaign) can violate public policy.

Novosel is a favorite of law professors, but has largely been ignored by courts and remains an outlier because it enables employees to import the First Amendment to the private sector workplace through a lawsuit, and thus to avoid what otherwise would be the extinguishing effect of the state action doctrine — the rule that the Constitution restricts what the government can do but not what private actors can do.

But, today, given that Trump is turning the private-sector workplace into a political arena, the logic of Novosel should have greater appeal and application. The decision gives courts a way to hold that it is against public policy to allow the president to attack private sector workers while permitting employers to silence employees who respond in kind. Indeed, in a democracy where constitutional rights exist to protect private citizens from the government, it must be contrary to public policy to let the chief executive attack private employees on social media while allowing the silencing of private employees who use social media to protest the president.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:24 AM on November 8, 2017 [43 favorites]


The people who realize that Trump isn't carrying out his promises but still love him anyway, sound like those people who double down on "He is too a Nigerian Prince and I will get my money!" because they don't want to admit they've been scammed. It's easier to cling to cognitive dissonance than admit that you were a mark and you've been royally had.

There's probably an element of tribalism in there as well, the kind that makes people back sports teams that perform badly year after year and haven't won anything in living memory. Even if Team Trump is a loser, they still get to wear MAGA hats and cheer with their buddies and feel a team-spirit bond. I wonder how much being Team Trump makes up for not being team anything else, as so many of these people seem underemployed and socially disconnected. Support for Trump is much higher among "evangelical Christians" who do NOT go to church as opposed to those who do.

People don't like admitting they were marks for a yuge scammer, and they want to belong to some team, even if the "team" is repellent.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:31 AM on November 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


sio42: With key U.S.D.A. programs—from food stamps to meat inspection, to grants and loans for rural development, to school lunches—under siege, the agency’s greatest problem is that even the people it helps most don’t know what it does.

It's not just U.S.D.A., it's everywhere: Shaky U.S.-China Trade Relationship Will Top Trump's Agenda In Beijing (Rob Schmitz for NPR, Nov. 8, 2017)
China imposes a 12 percent tariff on beef from the U.S., yet its biggest competitors in the beef market in China – Australia and New Zealand – have both signed free trade agreements with Beijing, pushing down their tariffs to around 4 percent. Australia sold more than half-a-billion dollars' worth of beef to China last year; Hafemeister hopes the U.S. can sell just $20 million worth by the end of this year.

James McGregor, president of the greater China region for the consulting firm APCO, says China's lifting of the U.S. beef ban in May is the latest case of too little, too late. And he's not optimistic the Trump administration is focused enough to improve business for U.S. companies in China.

"There is no strategy and professionals are not involved," he says. "The people from [the U.S. Trade Representative's office] and Commerce and State are sidelined."

McGregor says instead of representatives from the U.S. Trade Representative and other government staff who typically deal with China, President Trump has political appointees with little to no trade experience engaging with the Chinese.
Emphasis mine, because fuck these fucking clowns for even ruining the potential for US businesses to grow.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:31 AM on November 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


But I've seen some people get really upset about it no matter how gently you bring it up. They'll double down on the error and relentlessly attack the person that had the temerity to point out that they made a mistake. It can get really toxic and aggressive really fast and it's really weird.

I feel like this might be a peculiarly American trait. Take a (ostensible) cultural propensity for individualism, self-reliance and freedom of belief and apply it to the population's natural proportion of Dunning-Krugers and narcissists, and you end up with a lot of people who believe that being called wrong is worse than being wrong. That way lies the current madness.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:34 AM on November 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


Mass Shootings, Climate, Discrimination: Why Government's Fear of Data Threatens Us All (Adam Rogers for Wired, Nov. 7, 2017)
Would you like detailed information about arrests, homicides, and gang murders in 2016? Well, the FBI isn’t giving it to you anymore. How about melting Arctic ice? Nope; Congress is dismantling a satellite that was supposed to update the aging monitor network. Climate change? Scott Pruitt, head of the Environmental Protection Agency, doesn’t think human beings cause it and, more importantly, doesn’t really think you can measure anything to find out. The weather? Forget it; the National Weather Service is coming apart at the seams. How many people live in the United States, data critical to determining political representation and funding priorities? Yeah, no—the 2020 Census is shaping up to be an epic disaster.

It’s hard to imagine a good argument for knowing less—about anything, really, but especially about difficult problems with profound policy implications. The government is supposed to base policy on the best data possible, along with political concerns, budget concerns, social priorities ... the usual warp and weft of running a country.

Yet the Trump administration is running in the other direction. Any data that has even the faintest whiff of potential contradiction goes right out the window. Of course, these folks aren't the first people in power to succumb to a fear of data. They do, however, seem to have found a profound expertise in the practice of eliminating it. Dataphobia chills them to the bone, I suspect because they hope to undermine not only some truths but all truth. David Roberts at Vox has written about what he calls an epistemic crisis in America, the idea that certain rulers and rich people hope to take away the basic idea of knowledge. If nobody can know anything, why bother to try to regulate anything? It’s government-by-ignorance—a shrugocracy.
This is the way the world ends. This is the way the world ends. This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang but a ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by filthy light thief at 9:37 AM on November 8, 2017 [50 favorites]


Cognitive dissonance is now the Trumpists' default frame of mind, e.g

That Johnstown story is heavy stuff. At this point, for the people in Johnstown, at least, is it even cognitive dissonance any more? Or is it just a willful denial of what even they know is the truth, like the dying person determined to believe in a quack cure? And while they all say that they'll vote for him again, it isn't perfectly obvious to me that that is an attitude that will get people to the polls. I mean, why even make the effort if it's enough to curl into a fetal position and repeat soothing words? I don't know.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:43 AM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Axios: Senate not releasing its version of tax bill tomorrow, as had been planned.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:44 AM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


> Trump’s Republicans' Cruel Campaign Against the U.S.D.A.’s Scientists Science in General

The National Science Foundation was a beacon in the world, an exemplar to history that blue-sky funding from a government of the people could democratically accomplish what was in the past the sole realm of rich patrons. Instead of getting the Catholic church or the Medicis or the Rockefellers robber barons to be your funders, you could have a review panel of your peers direct democratically-allocated resources to your work.

And the results were startling. Huge telescopes, vast particle accelerators, giant targeted collaborations, unlocking the mysteries of the universe, physical and biological - and fearlessly, not beholden to the whims of any patron, with results available to everyone. Were there flaws? Sure. But the intentions were noble, and the results have been spectacular, if under-appreciated by most people.

What's happening to our science agencies now is the result of deliberate and malicious squeezing by the Republican congress year after year after fucking year - we have money for tax cuts and defense budgets but not for basic science any longer. The whole set of Fuck You's aimed at universities and graduate education in CutCutCut - that's no coincidence, it's pretty much part of the anti-science agenda Republicans have been pushing for the last N years.

Look, for example, at the abandoned remains of the Superconducting Super Collider - the most expensive hole in Texas. And then consider the discovery of the Higgs boson at the LHC in Europe. Today, we the people are abandoning and shutting down our largest radio telescopes, while China is on a telescope building spree, and a Russian billionaire funds SETI.

We are eating our seed corn today, and we are going to regret it.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:51 AM on November 8, 2017 [109 favorites]


like the dying person determined to believe in a quack cure?


Best analogy for Trumpism I've heard so far.

If, by "cure", we mean a cure for the debilitating ailment of having a sane, moral, respectfully diverse, pluralistic society with a modicum of income equality, a capitalistic system that has reasonable safeguards to protect consumers from abuse, and a modestly efficacious government that can manage to address the most fundamental needs of its citizenry.

Actually looking forward to November 2018, y'all.
posted by darkstar at 9:53 AM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump wins a surprise election in 2016 and we get tons of interviews with white Rust Belt Trump supporters. Democrats near-sweep elections across the country in a rebuke of Trumpism and we get -- interviews with white Rust Belt Trump supporters.
posted by dirigibleman at 9:55 AM on November 8, 2017 [111 favorites]


We are eating our seed corn today, and we are going to regret it.


Eating our seed corn would imply we were at least getting some nutritional benefit, though at the cost of the future.

What we're doing is basically dumping the seed corn into the cesspit, pouring in a lot of gasoline, and setting the whole thing on fire. Because, of course, some people just want to see the world burn and love the smell of smoldering shit.
posted by darkstar at 9:55 AM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


Its reporter Jenny Hopkinson obtained the curricula vitae of the new Trump people.

And that makes two of my former co-workers who've now been cited on the blue. Yay, Jenny!
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:57 AM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


interviews with white Rust Belt Trump supporters

If seeing forever-trumpers in the news motivates dems to go vote, I'll take it.
posted by Fleebnork at 9:57 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


interviews with white Rust Belt Trump supporters.

The newspapers and news magazines know their audience. People who read newspapers, people who read PERIOD, did not support Trump. Their readers already know why people voted for Clinton because their readers themselves voted for Clinton. But for people who read, voting for Trump seems near incomprehensible, so there is a hunger for explanations. Who would vote for this? Why? I don't think you're going to see these pieces go away. We are still trying to understand. One hundred years from now, historians will STILL be trying to understand.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:00 AM on November 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


When oh when is the media going to pay attention to the forgotten voters of Alexandria, VA?

FUN FACT: Virginia is literally the most flown-over state.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:01 AM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


The Rude Pundit: Trump's Blur of Lies: How Many Falsehoods Can One Man Tell in 24 Hours?
What we are seeing in this whirlwind of prevarication, this blizzard of bullshit, is the degradation of our notions of truth, of fact, where everything is relative to whoever has the loudest megaphone and whoever gets the most clicks. "Well, this scientist says that climate change is going to fuck us all up," some asshole might tell his asshole wife. "But Swingin' Dick McGee here on Facebook tells me that it's all a hoax and we'll all be fine. Slap me in my face with your dick, McGee, because I believe you."

Lies are easy and simple. Truths are complex and difficult. We'll run to the comfort of the simple even as we barricade ourselves in our homes with our multiple guns, believing that the evil gang members are going to kill our daughters and rape our dogs, ignoring the floods that will wash us away.
posted by homunculus at 10:01 AM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


We are still trying to understand.

Narrator: They already did.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 10:01 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Because, of course, some people just want to see the world burn and love the smell of smoldering shit.

Don't forget that they also want to see everybody else super upset about the burning shitworld so that they can retweet their Hot Mug of Burning Shitworld Hater Tears meme.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:03 AM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


>We are still trying to understand.
Narrator: They already did.


I didn't. I mean I knew small towns weren't doing well economically and I understood that opioid overdose deaths were up. But I did not know until after the election that this meant that life was like this for people in places like Johnstown:
"She once had a union job packing meat at a grocery store, and then had to settle for less money at Walmart. Now she’s 60 and retired, and last year, in April, as Trump’s shocking political ascent became impossible to ignore, Schilling’s 32-year-old son died of a heroin overdose. She found needles in the pockets of the clothes he wore to work in the mines before he got laid off."
...
"A little more than a month after last year’s election, a five-month-old baby starved to death in her bassinet after both her parents overdosed on fentanyl, a frighteningly potent sort of synthetic heroin."
...
"it’s an instruction to the fire department: If it catches fire, let it burn. There are approximately 1,400 houses with an X"
It's a lot worse than I thought. No wonder these people are desperate. It sucks that they are blaming scapegoats (immigrants, people of color) for their problems, but those problems are real even though their understanding of the causes is all wrong. We have to help these people. If not out of simple human decency, then out of self-preservation. Because there are a lot of them, and desperate people do desperate things. Like empower a strongman to protect them from their perceived enemies.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:10 AM on November 8, 2017 [19 favorites]


(And yes I know most Trump voters are suburban and wealthier than average and just addicted to Fox News and its simple-but-wrong answers. But I think people underestimate how many of those wealthy suburbanites have connections to those afflicted small towns, still. How much more visible those small-town problems are to them than to us.)
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:12 AM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Two groups I want to plug:

Run For Something had 31 of their candidates win office yesterday. They're looking to help run young progressive diverse Democrats (or candidates who will caucus with Democrats) on downticket races across the country. They're looking for donations to help expand for 2018.

Jason Kander's Let America Vote. If you haven't seen this thread of people who have had their voting rights restored talking about what it means to them, you really should. Fighting voter suppression needs to be a top priority for Democrats nationwide. Let America Vote knocked hundreds of thousands of doors in VA and got an early voting location restored in DeKalb County Georgia, among other things. They have a number of ways to get involved and could use your support.
posted by zachlipton at 10:17 AM on November 8, 2017 [63 favorites]


We have to help these people. If not out of simple human mercy, then out of self-preservation. Because there are a lot of them, and desperate people do desperate things.

But how? It's like North Korea: Even if there were a way to surgically and instantaneously remove the Kim dynasty from existence, we'd be left with 25 million people who have absolutely no comprehension of how to operate in the world at large. Is it time to start air-dropping packages of food, naloxone, and progressive propaganda into rural Ohio?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:19 AM on November 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Congratulations to all of the ”DEPLORABLES” and the millions of people who gave us a MASSIVE (304-227) Electoral College landslide victory! [photo inside]

OMFG. He's so extremely Not Mad he's reporting his electoral college numbers from last year.
posted by zachlipton at 10:22 AM on November 8, 2017 [72 favorites]


air-dropping packages of food, naloxone, and progressive propaganda into rural Ohio?

I've heard worse ideas.
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:23 AM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


> OMFG. He's so extremely Not Mad he's reporting his electoral college numbers from last year.

Are we allowing for the possibility that there may have been a Groundhog Day reset that spreads at a variable rate depending on ideological closeness to Trump?

It's January 2017 again, we just don't know it yet.
posted by Buntix at 10:29 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


We tried to help them by expanding their access to Medicaid, they told us to fuck ourselves and die in a fire.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:31 AM on November 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


Even one sentence with "Senator Toomey" in it is too many.

What about 15 to 20 with time off for good behavior?
posted by Gelatin at 10:33 AM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


FYI, all, the USDA story linked above is by Michael Lewis, author of that terrific and terrifying piece on the transition at the Department of Energy that was posted in one of these threads way back when. (checks: wow, had its own thread! barely three months ago. sigh.)

Haven't read the USDA piece yet, but if it's half as good as the Energy piece, it's worth your time. And do read the Energy piece if you haven't yet. It's the best accounting yet of how this admin does great damage just by routine maliciousness.
posted by martin q blank at 10:35 AM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Daniel Dale points out that we know this was a Scavino tweet. Trump would never use the actual electoral college numbers; he always says 306 because he ignores the faithless electors.
posted by zachlipton at 10:35 AM on November 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


Johnstown Trump voters are getting exactly what they deserve. I'm unable to give a shit.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:36 AM on November 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


There have been 58 presidential elections. Trump's EC victory ranks 46th. So 45 elections have been greater landslides than his. And they probably didn't have to steal them, either.
posted by elsietheeel at 10:42 AM on November 8, 2017 [23 favorites]


We tried to help them by expanding their access to Medicaid, they told us to fuck ourselves and die in a fire.

They think of Medicaid as something THEY PROVIDE to poor non-white people. They do not think of themselves as poor or as potential beneficiaries of Medicaid. When we talk about expanding Medicaid, they think we mean we want them to PAY more, to help more people who are not them. Of course, they are wrong. But if you start from the incorrect premise that all tax payers are white and rural or suburban and that all beneficiaries of social programs are black and urban, then their reasoning for not wanting to expand Medicaid is easier to understand.

... My problem is the more I try to understand these folks, the more I end up feeling like I am being incredibly condescending. There's something more respectful about assuming they know what they are doing and are just doing it because they are shitty people. Still "sheer ignorance" combined with that day zero bug in the human operating system -- tribalism -- seems to explain their behavior better than "all the shitty people live in rural areas."
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:43 AM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Can he realistically block the expansion at this point?

Probably not, he is a fuckhead that showed people like Trump how to be fuckheads, and I think, like Trump, people at this point are just ignoring any of his "official" edicts.

The staggering incompétence has had me order 2nd glass of after work wine.
posted by sio42 at 12:33 PM on November 8 [1 favorite +] [!]


*sigh*
posted by Melismata at 10:47 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


seems to explain their behavior better than "all the shitty people live in rural areas."
Lol you drive west of 141 and tell me what you think.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:50 AM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


What we need is some sort of "missionary" program. Or the Peace Corps/Teach for America but aimed at sending folks with a positive understanding of the power of good governance to all these various hamlets across the nation.

We need to give folks a good option when they vote. They deserve leadership that doesn't descend on them like vultures picking at a carcass.

It's easy to blame "flyover" communities for voting against their best interests or pushing away the helping hand. The problem is that there is no "other side" in their day to day lives. Not enough of "us" live "there." And those of "us" who do might not be politically inclined or might otherwise be laying low given the climate of animosity that abounds these days.

It seems to me (your armchair strategist & thread lurker) that some organization (& funding.. always funding) could plant seeds in these starving communities that might eventually bear sustenance so desperately needed.

Obviously, as a software dev, I suffer from engineer's disease. Massive caveat. Still, I want to say that it all starts with a good app or website that'll help bring willing participants together with political structures that could help start making these forays.

But imagine if there were a "pop up clinic" only instead of giving flu shots & basic checkups, it helped educate locals on local/state/federal assistance programs that could meet them where they are & then local/state/federal gov't positions could be meaningfully challenged by folks with experience in these communities.

This isn't a radical idea on the whole. We know, as a loose collective, that we need to start challenging down-ballot races, etc. But an issue with that (as I see it) is that so many of us live in places where there's nothing needing challenging. I've self-selected a community with democratic dog-catchers on up. I don't even know how I'd go about relocating to a deep red community & getting started there. I also imagine I'm not alone. But if there were some sort of program in place to 1) provide a job for folks willing to make the move & then 2) provide training/prep for a transition into local politics..

I can't help but think that some kind of perverse version of this is exactly how the "right" has been getting their tendrils into all these communities thus far. Whereas I'd feel extremely uncomfortable relocating to some small town & running for office as a "carpet bagger," I have no doubt that the Koch machine is capable of matching up some hedge fund vampire with an open position in his hometown..

So I'm trying to brainstorm a way that folks show up in a town to do good first & foremost (a la the political "pop up clinic"). Then, having established these outposts of goodwill, there's an avenue for people to start pushing the left's narrative that gov't isn't bad & hey, I'm running for office, don't you think you might like to give my politics a shot?
posted by narwhal at 10:51 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


FT, US regulators demand CNN sale to approve AT&T-Time Warner deal
AT&T has been told by the US Department of Justice that it needs to sell CNN, Time Warner’s cable news channel, to get its $84.5bn acquisition of the media company approved, according to three people with direct knowledge of the negotiations.

The sale of CNN, which President Donald Trump has fiercely criticised as “fake news”, is just one of the demands being made by the US antitrust authority in order to sign off on the deal, those involved in the talks said. But it could prove a stumbling block.

AT&T is opposed to selling the TV network and is preparing to take the Trump administration to court, arguing the deal with Time Warner does not pose any competition violations.

“It’s all about CNN,” said one person with direct knowledge of the talks between the company and the DOJ, adding that the regulator made it clear to AT&T that if it sold CNN the deal would go through.
Trump obviously hates CNN and has been saying he'd block this merger since the campaign. And now here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 10:53 AM on November 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


cjelli: Specifically asks Sessions to provide 'the reason that the President asked Mr. Boente's resignation, and when that request was made, by...no later than November 21st.'

Senator seeks explanation for career U.S. prosecutor's abrupt resignation (Sarah N. Lynch for Reuters, Nov. 7, 2017)
A Department of Justice spokesman said the agency does not comment on personnel matters.

Boente could not immediately be reached for comment.
#1: how convenient.

#2: possibly a smart move on his part.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:58 AM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


As a public service, I am announcing that Pete Souza’s book, Obama: An Intimate Portrait, is now available. I linked to Amazon, but I am sure you can get it from many sources.

Just what we need for those days when we need to revisit humanity in the U.S. government.
posted by Silverstone at 11:02 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


AT&T has been told by the US Department of Justice that it needs to sell CNN, Time Warner’s cable news channel, to get its $84.5bn acquisition of the media company approved, according to three people with direct knowledge of the negotiations.

Isn't this a blatant First Amendment violation? As in, government action to punish critical speech?
posted by msalt at 11:03 AM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Okay, I'm still in the middle of reading that VF USDA piece, but I had to stop to say they chose a really unflattering picture of Kevin Concannon and that this one used to be the desktop image on my old work computer.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:05 AM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


But imagine if there were a "pop up clinic" only instead of giving flu shots & basic checkups, it helped educate locals on local/state/federal assistance programs that could meet them where they are & then local/state/federal gov't positions could be meaningfully challenged by folks with experience in these communities.

Some of the mutual aide efforts in various DSA chapters have been planning things like this, the Medicare For All campaign is going door to door to help people sign up for Medicare and tabling at events.
posted by The Whelk at 11:06 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Isn't this a blatant First Amendment violation? As in, government action to punish critical speech?

Are corporations covered under that? I’m fuzzy on how Citizens United intersects with communications mergers.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:06 AM on November 8, 2017


The New Yorker's cover from the correct timeline one year ago.
posted by adept256 at 11:06 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


The NYT version of the AT&T-Time Warner story is more mild, saying the DOJ wants them to divest either Turner Broadcasting or DirecTV.

And look, personally, I do not want an AT&T that owns a wireless business, a wireline business, an ISP, a satellite service, a movie studio, and a host of cable channels including a major news network. No single company should have that kind of control. But Trump has tainted the entire proceeding by launching a personal vendetta against CNN, and it's impossible to separate that from any kind of reasonable evaluation of the merger.
posted by zachlipton at 11:11 AM on November 8, 2017 [20 favorites]


But imagine if there were a "pop up clinic" only instead of giving flu shots & basic checkups, it helped educate locals on local/state/federal assistance programs that could meet them where they are & then local/state/federal gov't positions could be meaningfully challenged by folks with experience in these communities.

The Black Panthers did this and it got them branded a terrorist group.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 11:12 AM on November 8, 2017 [40 favorites]


The New Yorker's cover from the correct timeline one year ago.

I know what this is without clicking, and I won't click. Too painful, seriously. Ugh.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:15 AM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


Peter Hamby, Vanity Fair, How Trump Brought the Political Media Class to Its Knees. A really good longform look at how the press isn't keeping up (you can skip over the first chunk, which is mostly just whining about the physical conditions in the briefing room). A sample:
But, for the American public, trying to make sense of the most disruptive moment in American politics since Vietnam and Watergate, little is accomplished. The oxygen rush of the “news of the day”—and the constant need to get the White House to respond to what just happened—has always fueled the Washington press. It’s a bad habit that’s become a crisis under an administration that has perfected the art of the dodge and cares little about helping news organizations inform their audiences. Getting answers on the news of the day checks a box. Getting answers on what happened a month ago takes hard work.

Reporters in the briefing room do help out their pals every once in a while with a benevolent follow-up question if Sanders dodges their colleagues’ initial inquiry. But that’s the exception rather than the rule. And for close-watchers of the daily briefing—most of them self-hating media types—the lack of follow-ups and baseline skepticism is maddening. “The most likely explanation for why Sanders continues to lie is because the media has proven that there’s no consequence for lying,” said Matt Negrin, a Daily Show writer who hate-watches the briefing every day and mocks the whole thing on Twitter. “Sean Spicer lied every day. Sanders lies every day. But every cable-news channel airs the briefing live every day. I guess they defend that by saying it’s ‘news,’ because the White House spokeswoman is spewing shit, so that somehow means it’s ‘newsworthy.’ It doesn’t matter how many times she lies. They’ll always take her live.”
...
It would just be nice if we were talking about what happened last week, last month, last winter—and not just what happened in our mentions a few minutes ago when some other reporter tweeted “WOW!” with a finger emoji pointing to Trump’s latest distraction.
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on November 8, 2017 [35 favorites]


It’s a bad habit that’s become a crisis under an administration that has perfected the art of the dodge

I see what he did there.
posted by Gelatin at 11:20 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Peter Hamby, Vanity Fair, How Trump Brought the Political Media Class to Its Knees

*favorites before reading*

*reads*

*tries to favorite again oh well*
posted by Melismata at 11:21 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


“Sean Spicer lied every day. Sanders lies every day. But every cable-news channel airs the briefing live every day. I guess they defend that by saying it’s ‘news,’ because the White House spokeswoman is spewing shit, so that somehow means it’s ‘newsworthy.’ It doesn’t matter how many times she lies.

I've said this before, but my high school journalism teacher taught us that when one's source lies to you, that's your story.

The so-called "elite Washington press corps" is less competent at their jobs than a high school journalism class.
posted by Gelatin at 11:22 AM on November 8, 2017 [39 favorites]


@OverlappingElvis The Black Panthers did this and it got them branded a terrorist group.

I hate to admit it, but it doesn't surprise me.

Which is why, in addition to creating the mechanism that would put "boots on the ground" in these underserved communities, we'd also need to thoroughly vet the entire enterprise before we ever took a single step forward. It's too easy for good groups (BLM, antifa, socialists, etc.) to be tarred & feathered by the opposition because they started making moves before they'd locked down their messaging. It shouldn't need to be this way. We should be able to see areas where folks need help & just start doing good. But in today's climate, that's insufficient. We'd need a manifesto, a statement of intent, an FAQ, media soundbites, you name it.. all that junk in order to make sure that we can meet any opposition head on the moment they try to spin what we're doing.

It'd simply be one more part of the due diligence prior to launch.
posted by narwhal at 11:22 AM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


But imagine if there were a "pop up clinic" only instead of giving flu shots & basic checkups, it helped educate locals on local/state/federal assistance programs that could meet them where they are & then local/state/federal gov't positions could be meaningfully challenged by folks with experience in these communities.

This would be a natural fit for Extension services, as they were incredibly effective at bringing taxpayer-funded agricultural practices information to rural America and have since expanded to cover a lot of urban programming, nutrition and health, finance, early childhood education, etc, and it would make sense as a one stop shop organization to tie together all the balkanized government programs and at least point people in the right direction. It would require some rejiggering of the structure of Extension, which is a mishmash of federal, state and local control and dollars all tied together with MOU's, but it's such a good fit for the Extension mission and the organization has exactly the kind of reach and presence necessary in rural areas (at least in states that didn't slash the state Extension budget too bad, but that could be supplemented with more federal funding). It is also fundamentally a research-based educational organization, so bonus.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:26 AM on November 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


narwhal: "It'd simply be one more part of the due diligence prior to launch."

1) What makes you think BPP didn't do this?

2) The other side doesn't play by your rules of respectability. There is no amount of preparation that will keep you from being branded an enemy of the state if you start mobilizing the labor class.
posted by TypographicalError at 11:27 AM on November 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


Thoroughly vet groups if and when it makes sense to do because it's just a good, prudent step to take. The right will label anything they don't like a terrorist group. No matter how thoroughly you vet and control everything, the goal posts will get moved.
posted by VTX at 11:27 AM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Bloomberg, Icahn Subpoenaed by U.S. Over Biofuel Policy While Trump Adviser
Federal investigators have issued subpoenas for information on Carl Icahn’s efforts to change biofuel policy while serving as an informal adviser to President Donald Trump, according to regulatory filings.

The U.S. Attorney’s office for the Southern District of New York is “seeking production of information” pertaining to Icahn’s activities regarding the Renewable Fuel Standard, according to a Form 10-Q that Icahn Enterprises LP filed on Friday with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

The investigators also want information on Icahn’s role as an adviser to the president, the document says.
The New Yorker had a piece back in August (gosh, I was really going to say March or something before I looked it up, it feels like that long) on Icahn's use of his advisory position to try to benefit his businesses. And now the feds are investigating him, an investigation that should presumably involve what he asked for from the President. Delicious.
posted by zachlipton at 11:29 AM on November 8, 2017 [21 favorites]


The so-called "elite Washington press corps" is less competent at their jobs than a high school journalism class.

They're cowards at the very least, anyway. They're afraid of getting sued, because we're unfortunately in a litigation-happy society. But I wish they knew their own power; have you heard what happened to Disney this week?

No? They were pissed that they got bad movie reviews from the LA Times. So, taking a cue from the poisonous culture we live in, they decided to ban LA Times reporters from their advance screenings. And what happened? Critics FROM OTHER PAPERS announced that they were going to boycott Disney movies too. And then Disney backed down, allowing LA Times reporters back into their screenings.

THAT is what the political press should be doing.
posted by Melismata at 11:30 AM on November 8, 2017 [55 favorites]


“Why is it that people channel so many of their hang-ups about people who are poor or unsuccessful into the food-stamps program?” asks Concannon as we settle into our chairs, then answers his own question. “No one really knows when you go to the doctor and the government is paying. But people see you with this card or coupon and react. People would say to me, ‘I saw someone buying butter with food stamps.’ And I would say, ‘Well, yes.’”

Good gravy I miss having real civil servants in the upper ranks of the federal government.

That's another thing that infuriates me about Trump. He seems to think he's the boss of the USA, but he's actually one of the lowest employee around because he has more than 325,000,000 bosses.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:30 AM on November 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


My hot take on the article about the Trump fans is that Trump is their surrogate bully. Their lives, their town, their families have all turned to shit so they are angry but helpless. Donald Trump is powerful but mean and nasty to the right people. It gives his fans a vicarious thrill and feeling of victory. They've given up getting anything useful out of him but as long as he bullies elites, women, POC, and liberals in general, they'll still love him.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 11:32 AM on November 8, 2017 [53 favorites]


No? They were pissed that they got bad movie reviews from the LA Times. So, taking a cue from the poisonous culture we live in, they decided to ban LA Times reporters from their advance screenings.

Oh, it was way worse than that. Disney didn't block the LA Times movie reviewers because they were unhappy with their reviews - they blocked them because the LA Times published a two-part story about the huge tax breaks they were forcing from the City of Anaheim, and the huge amounts of money they [Disney] had poured into local elections to buy themselves members of the local government.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 11:37 AM on November 8, 2017 [77 favorites]


So, because we can point at ways that previous attempts to do good have been thwarted by an opposition that doesn't concern itself with facts or truth, we should abandon new solutions preemptively?

If we know that previous organizations have been demonized by the right after mobilizing, perhaps there are things we could do proactively this time around.

For instance, I'm not aware of any populist uprising that started with a press briefing and a fact sheet.

I'm not saying that by attempting to thwart known attack vectors at launch we'll shut down all vilification. But I am suggesting that the rich & powerful are also lazy & repetitive. "What's worked" in the past will be used in the future until it stops working. So yeah, let's think about ways that good movements have been thwarted previously & prepare for them. Let's use our imagination to try & get out in front of the known attack vectors & do our best to minimize the slander so that we can start doing good while they're scrambling to come up with a new tactic.

So, please: continue to warn me about how this new thing might fail or be misconstrued according to all the ways previous efforts have been smeared. But let's not throw out a reasonable idea because it will get attacked. If the idea itself is unsound, let me know.
posted by narwhal at 11:38 AM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


The Tax Policy Center fixed their estimates on the House tax plan and put out new ones: Preliminary Distributional Analysis of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. It's still awful.

Most of the cuts disappear after a few years, except for the top 1%; theirs stick around. The last two pages show the tax increase/decrease by income. Everyone would, on average, see a tax cut, but some people would get increases, including a number of lower and middle class Americans. In 2018, 7.3% of tax units would see a tax increase from the plan, but by 2028, 25.5% would see a tax increase.
posted by zachlipton at 11:42 AM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Because I can't hate on this enough, he ate a fast food burger when meeting with the Prime Minister of Japan.

You know who needs to spill all the tea in a book? Cristeta Comerford.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:43 AM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Oh, it was way worse than that. Disney didn't block the LA Times movie reviewers because they were unhappy with their reviews - they blocked them because the LA Times published a two-part story about the huge tax breaks they were forcing from the City of Anaheim, and the huge amounts of money they [Disney] had poured into local elections to buy themselves members of the local government.

Thanks for the correction, Nice Guy Mike. That proves my point even more--the big bad guys got caught doing something bad, and the press called them out on it! And made a good thing happen!! Why isn't this happening in Washington??
posted by Melismata at 11:43 AM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


For instance, I'm not aware of any populist uprising that started with a press briefing and a fact sheet.

It was called The Tea Party and their claims that they were motivated by sincere concerns about governmental overreach and federal spending were as correct and interrogated as fiercely as Trump voters claims that they were in no way racist.

That is, those claims were blatant lies and not questioned. So maybe a messaging platform is needed? But as has been pointed out, only certain such political claims are focused on.

Again, to be clear, from what I'd call the "Beltway Elite," left political claims are rigorously deconstructed and fault found with them, while right political claims are accepted as true.

Hopefully this is changing.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:45 AM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


JOSH DAWSEY and MATTHEW NUSSBAUM, Politico: Tee times, smoothie diets, and fat paychecks: A look inside post-Trump life
Steve Bannon now flies only by private plane — and has his own small security team that surrounds him 24 hours a day.

Reince Priebus spends Friday afternoons at the swanky Belle Haven Country Club in Alexandria, sipping Heineken on the patio and trying to break 90 over 18 holes. He is charging at least $50,000 to give private talks about the White House to CEOs and carries a phone that seems to ring nonstop.

Michael Flynn, meanwhile, floats in a sort of legal purgatory, with his siblings setting up a defense fund to help him foot the bills and TV cameras swarming outside his house, representing another group of White House aides who live in fear of the footsteps of prosecutors and early-morning knocks on the door.

Standing on a stage at the Midtown Manhattan Hilton in the early hours of Nov. 9 almost a year ago, basking in his surprise victory, Donald Trump name-dropped each man. In the days and weeks that followed, he would appoint each to senior White House roles. Their days in the White House are long gone.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:46 AM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


The New Yorker's cover from the correct timeline one year ago.

I know what this is without clicking, and I won't click. Too painful, seriously. Ugh.


Know what I don't ever need to look back on again? Election night of 2016. Save the retrospectives. Fuck Facebook memories this week, and next. I'd rather have the "where were you on 9/11 or when so-and-so was assassinated" conversations, because those at least involve people reacting with appropriate horror and sadness.

Last year was awful. It was an awful ending to an awful election, heralding more awfulness. We've talked it all to death. We get through this now by going forward.

If you're going through hell, keep going.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:52 AM on November 8, 2017 [48 favorites]


Lemme tell ya, narwhal, if there's one thing people in rural areas and Rust Belt cities just love, it's big-city elites parachuting in to tell them all the things they're doing wrong, and to save them from their errors.

You're also trying to reinvent the wheel -- there already are organizations that do this, many that are homegrown and not outside interlopers. They could use your money, for sure. Wellstone is a popular one in the midwest, for example.

You need people who live there because they like it there, and who are deeply invested in local issues and concerns. Some of these organizers who came through during the 2016 campaign were spouting generic platitudes about how Bernie's plans would be great for farmers, but couldn't answer specific questions from farmers about the agricultural impacts of various Bernie plans, and didn't seem aware that a lot of our local economy ran on sophisticated medical services, industrial wire & metal work, and call centers. We were "vaguely rural Rust Belt city, so talk about farms and the UAW?" to them. A socialist who wants to fly into Peoria is going to need to be able to talk intelligently about property tax exemptions for non-profit hospitals with $100 million in yearly (not-) profits, and industrial and trade policy around a whole bunch of metalwork stuff, and long-distance transit policy particularly w/r/t trains and barges, particularly w/r/t grain shipping. Two cities over you're going to need to be able to talk about appliance manufacturing and homebuilding, because they make dishwashers and windows. They're more rural than us, but they don't have a grain shipping depot, so it doesn't come up in their politics as often.

I'd suggest
*donating money to organizations that already do organizing and political education in these areas
*moving to them if you like them and want to live there
*founding a business there, run on good lefty principles. Job-creators get listened to in local politics.
*Acquiring deep knowledge of the problems and issues and community texture of some of these places
*Addressing these problems through your state legislature. Something that would make a huge difference for downstate Illinois is reducing tuition at state universities so kids can graduate without debt. It would put college a lot more in-reach for poor kids. Better statewide mass transit would help. Initiatives that incentivize Chicago-area companies to move back-office functions downstate are popular right now -- there's an underutilized educated workforce who move for one spouse's job (doctor, professor) and the other highly-educated spouse is kinda drifting. There's the expertise to run these things, the costs are lower than in Chicago, and entry-level corporate jobs would be awesome for our unemployed workforce. Retraining initiatives, with real money attached, so you can get a degree without losing your unemployment check. The gravity that pulls money and talent to a few big cities at the expense of regional cities and small towns isn't inevitable; it's the result of a series of policy choices -- which can be reversed. (Bank deregulation is a huge one; communities that lose their local banks and only have access to national banks flounder as all the money moves out of town -- relaxing the rules about bank branches and interstate banking killed hundreds of small towns all on its own.)

I dunno, that's just off the top of my head. It's a laudable goal, but I think you should work with the people already on the ground, rather than reinventing the wheel. I also think that punishing oligarchs who support GOP causes and who pull the GOP so very far right with their cash is probably a more key point. We COULD have a sane GOP that leaves the racists out in the cold, but their corporate masters pay for their leadership to be cruel, stupid, and racist, so that's what they do. Paul Ryan is a lot less about poor people in Ohio and a lot more about the Koch Brothers being determined to buy a country. And a GOP not dominated by Koch (and other) money probably could have institutionally stopped Trump's candidacy instead of flailing around and sucking on the Fox News ratings tit.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:53 AM on November 8, 2017 [84 favorites]


I think it's worth taking a moment to breathe and recognize that we survived this past year. A year ago we thought the nightmare was finally ending, and it didn't. It's been hell but we've made it.

Now, take a moment to recognize those of us who didn't survive, because "WE MADE IT" sentiments often fail to remember those of us who didn't. Those taken from us by mass shootings or police killings, natural disasters or government disaster response failures, those taken by Nazis, racists or transphobes, those who couldn't imagine how they would survive in this political climate and so chose not to. Remember them as we celebrate a small victory, and remember them always as we prepare for the years to come.
posted by yellowbinder at 11:58 AM on November 8, 2017 [61 favorites]


Now? Essentially, if you're still Republican, if you still support Trump, I don't think you're a person worth listening to, or even valuing. It's reactive radicalization. I don't know if there's a way back.

But these are people who have celebrated physical violence on minority groups, who stand with white supremacists and those who actually consider themselves Nazi sympathizers, and who are either passively or actively contributing to the destruction of our society, never mind our democracy. Our nation has gone to war in the past against people who thought that way. If you think these people and their way of thinking should be purged from our society and our national identity, I’d say your head is exactly in the right place. America’s foundation as a nation was and is about fighting against people like this.

It’s not radicalization to judge that some viewpoints and ideologies are shitty and toxic, and so are the people who espouse them. Refusing to admit that these are bad people who don’t deserve a platform is what led us to this point. They’re bad people and they don’t deserve a platform. They should be actively prevented from having one.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:04 PM on November 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


re: the Johnstown article - yes, racism, but the jobs thing is the part that stood out for me, particularly this:

"But even this optimistic stance highlights some of the deep-seated troubles here. “Right now, if I could find 150 people, I’d put them to work,” Polacek said. He needs machinists. He needs welders. “But it’s hard to find people,” he said—people with the requisite skills, people who can pass a drug test.

“We just don’t have the workforce,” said Liston, the city manager. “If they are employable, and have a skill set, basically they already moved out of the area.”

Some of the later-in-life blue-collar workers who are still here can be loath to learn new trades. “We’ve heard when working with some of the miners that they are reluctant because they’re very accustomed to the mining industry,” said Linda Thomson, the president of JARI, a nonprofit economic development agency in Johnstown that provides precisely the kind of retraining, supported by a combination of private, state and federal funding, that could prepare somebody for a job in Polacek’s plant. “They really do want to go back into the mines. So we’ve seen resistance to some retraining.


So, let me get this straight: You were a coal miner. Your mining job is gone. You have the option to be retrained as a welder, but you don't want to be a welder. You still want to be a coal miner. So you stay unemployed instead of picking up the new skill.

I mean. Come on. There are jobs there, waiting to be filled, and I'd bet they're not exactly low wage jobs either, given what I know welders make up here. I honestly try - try! - not to be judgy, but I'm judging these people so hard.
posted by anastasiav at 12:10 PM on November 8, 2017 [62 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump: Congratulations to all of the ”DEPLORABLES” and the millions of people who gave us a MASSIVE (304-227) Electoral College landslide victory!
1:17 PM - 8 Nov 2017


In David Brin's book Startide Rising there is a race of aliens called the episiarchs. They are furiously powerful psychics with massive egos that refuse to concede the existence of reality. They use their minds to alter the universe to suit themselves, through denial and outrage.
posted by zarq at 12:12 PM on November 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


But let's not throw out a reasonable idea because it will get attacked. If the idea itself is unsound, let me know.

The part of the idea that will remain largely unworkable for the foreseeable future of the human race in general, but particularly here in the US, is that it depends on these people valuing the potential benefits for themselves higher than the benefit (as they see it) of denying these services to people who don't look or pray or fuck like they do.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:15 PM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


“I don’t know that he has done a lot to help,” Frear told me. Last year, she said she wouldn’t vote for him again if he didn’t do what he said he was going to do. Last week, she matter-of-factly stated that she would. “Support Trump? Sure,” she said. “I like him.”

When I asked Del Signore about the past year here, he said he “didn’t see any change because we got a new president.” He nonetheless remains an ardent proponent. “He’s our answer.”


No, this isn't at all like a cult. Nope.

My favorite takes are people on twitter saying Trump's reading of the South Korea Wikipedia page is going pretty well.

Oh please let him end a speech with, "In conclusion, South Korea is a land of contrasts."
posted by Room 641-A at 12:22 PM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Now? Essentially, if you're still Republican, if you still support Trump, I don't think you're a person worth listening to, or even valuing.

My dad was talking me through his prostate cancer regimen and made a joke that since my sister was writing it all down, he's not only a deplorable, but incompetent. 1) I was like, how are those different? And 2) I was pretty sure he was looking for love and compassion when talking about the cancer, and his reminding me of his 45 support negated all of that. I wanted to hang up the phone. It's my own father, who is going through cancer, and my hatred of 45 is getting in the way of my compassion for him. That's some strong hate.
posted by greermahoney at 12:25 PM on November 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


I kinda think a lot of these people are just trolling the fuck out of journalists.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:27 PM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


I mean. Come on. There are jobs there, waiting to be filled, and I'd bet they're not exactly low wage jobs either

Retraining and jobmatching are... complicated. This is not specifically about coal miners, but it is an interesting read on the subject.

To sum it up: publicly-funded training programs are often just a way for employers to offload the cost of training workers; by the time people get trained, the jobs for which they trained may already be transitioning elsewhere / getting phased out by industry changes or tech improvements; even if you train for the 'right' job at the right time (which can take a lot of time and often involves classroom instruction), you might be right back where you started in a few years, employed in a dead or dying niche and staring down the barrel of yet more retraining. This is complicated by the fact that people in need of retraining may need some remedial or basic training in tech and learning-to-learn, having been out of school for a while or perhaps not having completed school, way back when, so training is even longer.

If that cycle happens to you a few times, or if you see it happen to others in your community, or if the jobs people get after training pay you less and offer irregular hours (not unusual in healthcare, which is a field some programs push), you're probably going to be a little resistant. There's a move now to switch to 'demand training,' to better match employers and employees, but we haven't been really good about doing that in the US, historically.
posted by halation at 12:28 PM on November 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


It's my own father, who is going through cancer, and my hatred of 45 is getting in the way of my compassion for him. That's some strong hate.

What's angering you is could also conceivably be his own lack of compassion for others who might suffer what he's suffering but who will not have the financial and/or insurance means to survive it.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:29 PM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


I kinda think a lot of these people are just trolling the fuck out of journalists.

I'm gonna stick with them being racist fuckwits.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 12:30 PM on November 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


As a wise man once said, we are what we pretend to be.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:31 PM on November 8, 2017 [40 favorites]


Finding meaning in that Johnstown piece was nearly impossible, BUT instead of focusing on the insanity of the clearly deranged racists who cannot be bothered with reason, I was interested in the Trump-voting business magnate quoted upthread about not being able to find/hire/retain employees. I wonder what he would have said if the writer had pointed out that a major selling point for the GOP/Trump tax plan is that giving money back to employers creates jobs. He outright admits he has an oversupply of jobs and no one to fill them, what is he going to do with all his extra money when his taxes go down?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:31 PM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." -Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

That's not the first time that quote has shown up in one of these threads and it won't be the last time it's relevant either.

Edit: Jinx!
posted by VTX at 12:32 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


@Eyebrows McGee: Thank you for your post.

I am absolutely not trying to re-invent the wheel.

I'm trying to figure out what tools might be at our disposal in order to solve the problem mentioned upthread where people are trapped in awful situations (failing economies in tiny towns without any hope in sight). "They" vote to prevent medicare expansion (for one example) without realizing that it would actually benefit them.

Folks then asked what steps we might be able to take, short of air-dropping aid packages as if these red townships were warlord run fiefdoms in Africa.

I'm all for supporting existing solutions. I appreciate jason_steakums's information about Extension services. I recognize that just dropping carpet-bagging elites/liberals in small towns isn't going to do it. But if there were a service that could put someone to work in a town where they might have a local tie of some kind (maybe a family member lives in the town over, for instance), that could be used as a foothold for positive change.

I don't want to invent anything new. I don't want to create some brand new enterprise. If there's something in place that would do what I'm suggesting, let me know, & I'll share it every time folks say "how can we help people in these failing towns?"

All I know is that opinion piece after opinion piece belabors this point. Folks here in the blue belabor this point. I have belabored this point. We're all wringing our hands because people are voting against their own interests while living in these little red bubbles of poverty & despair, with no one feeding them anything except the right wing & its media outlets spewing hate & blame for all their problems on everyone that isn't white & christian.

I'm not aware of anything at a national scale that's trying to put people on the ground in these parts of the country that need our help. I think that should be resolved. If I can signify interest in helping a third world country improve & sign up for the Peace Corps, shouldn't it be monumentally more easy & convenient for me to say "I'd like to help out a disenfranchised American town?"

And yes, I know that programs are concocted specifically with these folks in mind in Washington or the state capitals, but again, I'm calling for some sort of mechanism that would post up in these hamlets & start doing good work locally.

In some ways, it seems like we on the left have fallen prey to the same "trickle down" arguments that the right has been making. We think that if we get people in office at particular levels of leadership, that they can then pass laws & start programs which will make their way down to the folks in small-town America. Maybe that doesn't happen as much as we think? Maybe, despite the funding & availability of these programs, folks in these localities won't step up & implement them? So let's do some outreach, let's send ourselves; rather than blowing through town on the campaign trail & making stump speeches, let's actually post up & start putting these works in place, directly.

And if there isn't anything that helps make this (waves hands frantically) possible, then yeah, let's build it.
posted by narwhal at 12:35 PM on November 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


If Obama, I asked, is the antichrist—whose arrival is said to precede the second coming of Christ—what would that make Trump?

“The savior?” Del Signore suggested.


This... this is Japanese horror anime levels of understanding of the Bible and Christianity.
posted by happyroach at 12:41 PM on November 8, 2017 [44 favorites]


i feel like aid programs could work if we made a big deal of taking things away from other people that they dislike. like if a newly elected official made up a program that the state used to fund to help made up refugees in a different part of the country, that they were now SLASHING FOREVER to use the funding to help local people, they'd gobble that up with pride, because they felt that they deserved it, that it was always rightfully theirs and not someone else's.

like at this point why NOT just egregiously and fraudulently pander to their whole fuck you got mine mentality and their desire to harm others.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:45 PM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


And if there isn't anything that helps make this (waves hands frantically) possible, then yeah, let's build it.
Isn't this the idea behind AmeriCorps?
posted by xyzzy at 12:46 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


I'm gonna stick with them being racist fuckwits.

I didn't mean it couldn't be both.
posted by prize bull octorok at 12:47 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


like if a newly elected official made up a program that the state used to fund to help made up refugees in a different part of the country

"Effective immediately, we are terminating all aid to refugees from Freedonia, Sylvania, Latveria and Elbonia, and redirecting those funds to provide affordable medical care for all American citizens!"
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:52 PM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


Re welding training; that is a ridiculously portable, high paying skill. Hell, I'm only trained enough to do metal sculpture, and recruiters have shown up at the art space where I took classes, and tried to recruit the ladies in the class. For the record, I'm one of the younger people taking it, and I'm in my 50s. If I didn't have physical disabilities that would make the job impossible, I'd have taken the offer. It pays as well as being a tech writer/ information architect, and is a whole lot easier to find a job at my age.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:52 PM on November 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


“But it’s hard to find people,” he said—people with the requisite skills, people who can pass a drug test.

People who can pass a drug test, huh? Pass it for opioids and harder drugs, or pass it for pot? Because one of those things is not like the other. My mom is a manager who does hiring for a retail store that does drug tests, and pot is still disqualifying, even though it's on the cusp of being legal in California, and she's always lamenting that it's hard to find good employees. A drug test that disqualifies all the casual pot smokers is unlikely to help. If being a social drinker or having a glass of wine a couple times a week isn't enough to put you on the reject pile, then pot use shouldn't be either.

I know it's never gonna happen because lol Sessions, but come on, legalize pot nationwide already. Even putting aside the horrors of the War on Drugs, knock-on effects like otherwise qualified job candidates being untouchable thanks to recreational marijuana use are harming economies and communities.
posted by yasaman at 12:52 PM on November 8, 2017 [48 favorites]


My Extremely Conservative Father shared his newest project this weekend: electrical engineering for a weed farm in California. He was all about growing it and selling it and medical use or whatever.

The point is I've been telling people since I found out last weekend that there's a lot of common ground on ending prohibition and most people are like "yeah sure, I would invest in that too." Weed will be the one thing we can all come together on, just you wait.
posted by Tevin at 12:57 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


honestly, i wish i'd learned how to weld instead of going to grad school. if we ever have semi-automated luxury gay space communism, i'd love to see training programs like those offered for ex-miners also offered for those who made bad graduate school choices.
posted by halation at 12:57 PM on November 8, 2017 [32 favorites]


I'm not aware of anything at a national scale that's trying to put people on the ground in these parts of the country that need our help.

Honestly, I think people just aren’t aware of how many existing poverty programs are simply not available outside of cities, or aren’t tailored to work outside them for a complicated mess of reasons.

Like: in the cities, there are a lot of programs that help people pay their rent, sometimes for months. But I’ve never even heard of a program that helps people pay their /mortgage/, or their /property tax/. So if you are rural poor in a fading city, where most people own their own what we will generously call homes, there isn’t really much help for you - even if you have exactly as low an income.

People need to be put on the ground in a serious long term way. And not just in the cities where social workers are a dime a dozen, but in the places they don’t want to go and must be compensated for living in.
posted by corb at 12:59 PM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


My greatest fear about the AT&T/TimeWarner merger is CEO Randall Stephenson, a true Corporate Trumpist, having control over CNN. And I have read that CNN employees are afraid of him too. So divesting CNN, selling it to Disney, CBS, even Comcast, anybody but Sinclair, sounds like a good thing to me, and something the Sessions DOJ is shooting itself in the foot with...

But then, I also hear that Rupert Murdoch is a NeverTrump Republican and his sons, including the one with direct authority over FoxNews, are 'more liberal' than he is. Why then, are they programming the channel for one person when they do have an opportunity to genuinely build their audience?
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:00 PM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Pot is now likely to be legalized in NJ and de-criminalized in VA, by the by.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:02 PM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


Probably because there’s a shitload of money in conservative propaganda, and not much in liberal-leaning media. Same reason the Macedonian fake-news generators do it.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:04 PM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Jared Kushner and Ivanka's Use of Trump Helicopters is Unethical and Possibly Illegal (Chris Riotta, Newsweek)
It's more than likely taxpayers footed at least part of the bill for the couple's two-day getaway, according to former President George W. Bush’s ethics chief, Richard Painter. "Taxpayers are paying for Secret Service to accompany Ivanka and Jared on their trips and vacations," he told Newsweek. "Because they choose to use a Trump Organization aircraft, you’ve got the problem we’ve been dealing with all along: the government is paying the Trump Organization to protect the first family, when it shouldn’t be."
“They’re in a World of Shit”: Inside Ivanka and Jared’s First Year in Washington (Emily Jane Fox, Vanity Fair)
Washington has been both an unimaginable opening and a kick to the stomach. It is clear now, though, as their anniversary in the swamp dawns, that an eventual return to New York may not be more appealing. Their social circle has shifted, real-estate prospects are waning, and widespread negativity awaits. (It is also unclear if Ivanka’s invitations from Chancellor Angela Merkel and Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to speak about women’s issues as a guest in their countries will still pour in if Robert Mueller’s investigation turns up something real.)
posted by Room 641-A at 1:05 PM on November 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


The Justice Dept claims

Hahahahahahohoheee

I know it's never gonna happen because lol Sessions,

And not just Sessions, either. Here in liberal MA, to say that the government is dragging their feet on implementing now-legalized pot shops is a huge understatement. There's still some Puritan ideal, in both the elected officials and the voters who put them there, that says we're not allowed to have fun ever, or something.
posted by Melismata at 1:05 PM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


That's another thing that infuriates me about Trump. He seems to think he's the boss of the USA, but he's actually one of the lowest employee around because he has more than 325,000,000 bosses.

And he never provided us his tax returns TPS reports.
posted by Gelatin at 1:07 PM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Who's voting on and paying for those programs they resent?

Clue: Not republican graspers.
posted by Artw at 1:07 PM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Johnstown Trump voters are getting exactly what they deserve. I'm unable to give a shit.

I give a shit for their kids, like that baby who starved to death. The problem with letting damaged people wallow in their damage is that there are always innocents trapped in there with them.

They are our citizens, as are the people of Flint and the people suffering in the unincorporated border towns, and the people sleeping on doorsteps in the cities. We should be taking care of them, even if some of them are total assholes. We should give them healthcare that includes rehab, and housing, and food and education for them and their kids. Even if they remain total assholes. Because the ones who aren't get taken care of too.
posted by emjaybee at 1:08 PM on November 8, 2017 [57 favorites]


Oh, it was way worse than that. Disney didn't block the LA Times movie reviewers because they were unhappy with their reviews - they blocked them because the LA Times published a two-part story about the huge tax breaks they were forcing from the City of Anaheim, and the huge amounts of money they [Disney] had poured into local elections to buy themselves members of the local government.

Yup. Which means that the freaking entertainment press showed more spine and professionalism than much of the so-called "elite political press."
posted by Gelatin at 1:09 PM on November 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


Oh god I can't wait until they come for Princess Complicit.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:09 PM on November 8, 2017 [31 favorites]


We should give them healthcare that includes rehab, and housing, and food and education for them and their kids.

YES we are TRYING but they VOTE AGAINST IT over and over and do NOT CARE
posted by poffin boffin at 1:15 PM on November 8, 2017 [57 favorites]


I’ll give a shit for their kids, but at the end of the day, they are reaping the consequences of their own choices and principles. For that matter, we are *all* going to be dealing with a major economic blow because of these people. Look at Puerto Rico!

I have a limited amount of energy available to fix the problems in our society, and I think I will devote exactly zero of it to those who are actively causing them. If you vote for things to suck and as a consequence your life sucks, don’t come crying to me. They can be grateful that the things I vote for will benefit them too. It certainly doesn’t mean they’ll benefit *first*, and damn it, they don’t deserve to.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:16 PM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


"But even this optimistic stance highlights some of the deep-seated troubles here. “Right now, if I could find 150 people, I’d put them to work,” Polacek said. He needs machinists. He needs welders. “But it’s hard to find people,” he said—people with the requisite skills, people who can pass a drug test.

...and people willing to work for what he's willing to pay them, which I would bet a cake is not the market rate. In fact, the fact that he can't find people proves that he isn't offering the market rate, because the law of supply and demand -- that good old conservative favorite -- says that if supply is low and demand is high, prices should rise accordingly.

Thus I can sort of see someone not being willing to be retrained as a welder or whatever if the job is known to be a poor deal for skilled labor.
posted by Gelatin at 1:16 PM on November 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


it's harder than getting a cat to take antibiotics

no matter how much butter we use we can't pry open their furious little jaws

"but you'll die without it!" we exclaim

they bite us
posted by poffin boffin at 1:17 PM on November 8, 2017 [90 favorites]


Caleb Ecarma, Seb Gorka Just Challenged Me to a Fight Over Email and I Accepted
“Seb Gorka illegally parked his shitty four cylinder Mustang on the sidewalk. Can’t even afford a 5.0 V8 GT. Sad!… Seriously tho what the hell is the point of buying a Mustang if it’s not a V8. Answer me coward @SebGorka,” I tweeted.

And those two tweets are what caused — or triggered, if you will — Gorka to challenge me to a fight via email. Or at least so it seems.

It was around 11 p.m. and I had just lost an absurd amount of money betting on the Milwaukee Bucks, and that’s when my phone pinged. It was Gorka. “So where do you want to meet,” he asked — as any normal, gray-haired 47-year-old ex-White House adviser would after having his masculinity challenged by a 20-something college bro online.

While he didn’t use the exact word “fight,” in internet-hardo language, I view “where do you want to meet” as equivalent to “let’s take it outside.”

And, man, I was ready to take this off the timeline and onto K Street.
Every bit of this is amazing.
posted by zachlipton at 1:17 PM on November 8, 2017 [55 favorites]


Are corporations covered under that [the 1st amendment]? I’m fuzzy on how Citizens United intersects with communications mergers.

No, corporations aren't. But government agencies are, when they put requirements on corporations to divest a part of the corporation because they don't like it's speech.

If they're forced to sell CNN, fiduciary duty requires taking the highest price, right? So Rebekah Mercer pays way too much and turns it into Breitbart Cable News.
posted by msalt at 1:18 PM on November 8, 2017


How much does welder training cost, anyway? Is it something you can get at a community college? Sounds pretty good actually.
posted by msalt at 1:20 PM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Wait is this the part of the thread where we are urged to show more compassion for the poor misguided racists? Because I love those parts of the thread.
posted by Justinian at 1:20 PM on November 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


Apparently the racists voted to starve a baby to death and it's our fault somehow.
posted by Artw at 1:22 PM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


no it's about cats now
posted by poffin boffin at 1:22 PM on November 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


"Seb Gorka Just Challenged Me to a Fight Over Email and I Accepted"

I was hoping for "Broadswords in a pit."
I was disappointed.
posted by Floydd at 1:26 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Probably because there’s a shitload of money in conservative propaganda

I have to confess that I frequently daydream about the amount of money I could make by jumping on the right wing grift train. I could very easily set myself up as one of the preferred go-to black guys who denounces liberalism, the Obamas, the Democratic party, Jesse Jackson, socially active black athletes and everything else they hate on demand.

I'm -- ahem -- articulate; I don't have a criminal record; I come from a Southern Baptist background and can weave that into my denunciation of any Democrat or left-leaning cause; I made it out of poverty to the upper-middle class [1].

And, perhaps most importantly, by way of having to smile and grit my teeth and endure things that I suffered at the hands of racists growing up, I know that I can act in a way that is opposite to what I feel and believe very convincingly.

I could very quickly and easily put together a bio that paints a picture of me bootstrapping my way up the socioeconomic ladder via adherence to conservative values. And I take a peek at right wing sites frequently enough that I have a good sense of the keywords and sentiments they're looking for.

I bet that if I then started with FB posts and a blogs, I could move on to guest posts on right wing sites (the non-rabidly racist ones), and eventually up to appearances on Fox in about 2 years. Pretty sure that I'd make quite a bit more than I'm making now and with less effort.

If, you know, I was willing to sell my soul.

[1] Unlike this fake me I'm daydreaming about, I don't attribute that rise solely to my own efforts. I had ridiculous amounts of good luck, unwavering support from people who believed in me, and tons of help from government programs like Head Start, welfare, public schools, free/reduced lunch, and loans for college.
posted by lord_wolf at 1:26 PM on November 8, 2017 [74 favorites]


Just want to chime in that I started welding as a hobby when I made my giant TRUMP IS POOPY sign and it is one of my favorite hobbies. If I couldn't write code I would become a welder tomorrow
posted by localhuman at 1:26 PM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


How much does welder training cost, anyway? Is it something you can get at a community college? Sounds pretty good actually.

some community colleges offer it, and technical/trade schools do, as well. when i've looked into it, it's looked to cost somewhere between $5-$10K to get certified, depending upon where you are and what sort of program you take. so it's not cheap. i don't know if there are cheaper alternative routes open to people beyond high-school-vo-tech age.
posted by halation at 1:28 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Like: in the cities, there are a lot of programs that help people pay their rent, sometimes for months. But I’ve never even heard of a program that helps people pay their /mortgage/, or their /property tax/. So if you are rural poor in a fading city, where most people own their own what we will generously call homes, there isn’t really much help for you - even if you have exactly as low an income.

But isn't this a false equivalency? If I can't afford my rent and get turfed out, I'm homeless and have nothing - if you own a house then at the very least you have a asset with cash value which can be sold or used as collateral for a loan. We help renters because we don't want more homelessness, property owners have a whole other raft of options available to them given that they're sitting on at least land, which is still some sort of piggy bank.
posted by aiglet at 1:30 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


No, corporations aren't. But government agencies are, when they put requirements on corporations to divest a part of the corporation because they don't like it's speech.

But are they being forced to do it because of CNN’s speech, or because of existing laws about monopolies? I realize that nobody can assume that this administration is doing anything out of a sense of actual fairness, least of all the Justice Department, but if it were a different administration, would it make sense to require them to sell CNN? I’m genuinely asking. But I do agree that putting CNN at a disadvantage as a brand is what we could call an intended unintended consequence, which sucks in today’s climate of attacking the media and opposing viewpoints. But a precedent allowing a company like AT&T to have this kind of reach could also bite us in the ass. If we allow it for this, what stops, for example, Fox from merging with Comcast or Verizon and creating a network that doesn’t even broadcast CNN (since net neutrality is also up for grabs, it would seem)? That basically throttles all “non-approved” media from reaching people at all? That would cover every type of device someone could use to access the media in question, no matter where they were.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:30 PM on November 8, 2017


But I’ve never even heard of a program that helps people pay their /mortgage/, or their /property tax/.


These are called the "mortgage interest tax deduction" and the "state and local tax deduction."

The original Republican tax plan was to eliminate both, which demonstrated that Republicans are wholeheartedly against this policy proposal you keep bringing up.

The dominant social research indicates that people incorrectly believe these to not be a government handout. But I am starting think that they do indeed think of it as a handout, and resent it (status loss) , leading to voting for politicians who promise to eliminate their own benefits.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 1:31 PM on November 8, 2017 [15 favorites]


>We should give them healthcare that includes rehab, and housing, and food and education for them and their kids. Even if they remain total assholes. Because the ones who aren't get taken care of too.<>

I work at a nonprofit that serves the homeless in the inner city. Sometimes people have shitty lives because of bad luck or lack of opportunity, sometimes because they are ignorant assholes. They all need help.

Just hope for change.
posted by readery at 1:32 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


But I’ve never even heard of a program that helps people pay their /mortgage/, or their /property tax/

The mortgage income tax deduction, basically the worst piece of tax policy we have, does exactly the former. Prop 13 in California, basically the worst piece of tax policy CA has, does exactly the latter.
posted by Justinian at 1:32 PM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


The real problem is that for some godforsaken reason we've decided that owning is morally superior to renting and should be encouraged by government policy, when there are very few reasons to prefer ownership from a policy standpoint and plenty of reasons to prefer more high-density renters.
posted by Justinian at 1:33 PM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


"In fact, the fact that he can't find people proves that he isn't offering the market rate, because the law of supply and demand -- that good old conservative favorite -- says that if supply is low and demand is high, prices should rise accordingly. "

Except that there are some jobs where it just isn't possible to pay a market-clearing wage; no matter how high the wages get, you can't hire enough people. Welding really pays pretty well, and it's a very portable skill that's always in demand, and it's still hella hard to hire enough welders, even if you're paying above market.

(It's basically impossible to pay a market-clearing wage for school bus drivers, since they have to get a CDL and pass yearly physicals and drug screens and pass a background check AND drive a bus full of noisy children around twice a day at weird times, whereas you can just take that CDL to a trucking company and get paid less -- but still well -- hauling freight, and not have to fuck around with all the extra school bus requirements.)

"They are our citizens, as are the people of Flint and the people suffering in the unincorporated border towns, and the people sleeping on doorsteps in the cities. We should be taking care of them, even if some of them are total assholes. We should give them healthcare that includes rehab, and housing, and food and education for them and their kids."

I believe this -- I believe it profoundly and as y'all know I dedicated years of my life to serving a community with pretty intense needs and some really fucked up politics because I believe it. However. The insistence with which some of these people demand a politics that fucks them over, that's spiteful and uncaring and cruel, that's harmful in the long-term, that hollows out their communities -- people who often admit they know the proposed policies will be bad for them and their communities and back them anyway (to stick it to do-gooding liberals) -- I am starting to wonder, honestly, at what point we bow to their right to self-determination and let them destroy themselves and their communities, if that's what they have decided to do. I'm just so flummoxed by this insistence on self-destruction; it shouldn't happen! But it's happening. And I keep wondering at what point we say, "Look, let us pass our strict gun control and universal health care and what not, and we'll let you pass whatever damn-fool thing you want, and best of luck."

Obviously it doesn't work that way because we're all stuck in one country together and there are children and there are people who can't just up and move somewhere more progressive, AND YET ... I think we should just hand the poor cash benefits and if they want to spend it on booze, well, then they spend it on booze. I'm starting to ponder at length what the difference is between that kind of self-destruction, and people determined to self-destruct politically because it makes them feel good about their prejudices. (Assuming we can limit the destruction to self destruction.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:34 PM on November 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


To answer my own question -- the local community college here in Portland has a 12 month welding program that costs $5,314 plus $800 in books.
"SMAW (shielded metal arc welding)
GTAW (gas tungsten arc welding)
GMAW (gas metal arc welding)
FCAW (flux-cored arc welding)
OAW (oxy-acetylene welding)
OAC (oxy-acetylene cutting)
Basic fabrication
Non-destructive Testing
You'll gain hands-on experience in the above specialties, and receive training in blueprint reading, welding principles, welding metallurgy, welding inspection and quality control in a lecture setting."
posted by msalt at 1:34 PM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yeah but you don't get to sit on your ass drinking beer.
posted by Artw at 1:35 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Also if you're upside down on your house then you're truly fucked. Or, by the time you manage to sell your house, you've racked up so much debt that you can barely afford to pay it off with the proceeds...which is the boat I'm in right now.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:36 PM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


As a public service, I am announcing that Pete Souza’s book, Obama: An Intimate Portrait, is now available. I linked to Amazon, but I am sure you can get it from many sources. Just what we need for those days when we need to revisit humanity in the U.S. government.

My wife and I bought three little rectangular Obama magnets, two of Barack and one of Michelle. We have GWB and Laura magnets given to my wife as a joke, but they were making us so sad that we had to relegate them to the side of the fridge. Now I can see Obama smiling whenever I'm in the kitchen.


scaryblackdeath: Know what I don't ever need to look back on again? Election night of 2016. Save the retrospectives. Fuck Facebook memories this week, and next.

Warning: FB also offers you reminders from 5 years ago, which sting even more. At least we'll have some joyous celebrations to remember a year from now, hoping that they're indicators for the 2018 elections.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:36 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Judge Slaps Gag Order On Everyone Involved In Manafort-Gates Case (Allegra Kirkland, TPM)
“The parties, any potential witnesses, and counsel for the parties and the witnesses, are hereby ORDERED to refrain from making statements to the media or in public settings that pose a substantial likelihood of material prejudice to this case,” U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson said in her order.

Jackson said it was intended to ensure the defendants’ right to a fair trial and that selected jurors are not “tainted by pretrial publicity.” [...]

At a hearing last Thursday, Jackson clearly signaled her disapproval of grandstanding by the attorneys in the case, warning them against making their arguments “on the courthouse steps” and giving them until Wednesday to file motions opposing the gag order. No parties involved in the case did so.

Even before the order was issued, Jackson’s initial warning seemed to deter attorneys from speaking out. Manafort’s lawyer, Kevin Downing, told reporters that the case was “ridiculous” after his client’s initial appearance in front of a magistrate judge on Monday. After the Thursday hearing, he and Manafort departed in silence.
So...it doesn't seem like the attorneys or their clients made any missteps, so I wonder who needs to shut their trap. 🤔
posted by Room 641-A at 1:39 PM on November 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


Was the tendency of players in the Russian conspiracy to send up signal flares via their lawyers not noted previously?
posted by Artw at 1:41 PM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


Judge Jackson is probably hoping to set a precedent for when the charges start hitting people closer to the center of it all.

It ain't gonna make a difference, because blowhards gonna blowhard, but she's still making the right move.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:42 PM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


if you own a house then at the very least you have a asset with cash value which can be sold or used as collateral for a loan

Not if you have a mortgage, you don’t. The house is already collateral for a loan, your mortgage. You can’t use it again. If your credit is good enough, you could qualify for a HELOC, but now you’ve just added to your debt. If your credit isn’t good enough for a HELOC, and if you’re struggling and have been late on some bills recently, it wouldn’t be, then you have to see if your house is in good enough shape to sell and see a net gain. It can take weeks or months to sell a house even in a good market, and if you don’t have the spare cash to make it showable, then what? And then, assuming you sell it for other than a loss, now you’re a renter!

If we should have learned anything from the housing crash, it should have been that houses with mortgages are not assets, and there’s no guarantee that you CAN sell a house when you want to, or for the price you want.
posted by Autumnheart at 1:44 PM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


I just assumed it was aimed at Trump, because he might be a "potential witness."
posted by Room 641-A at 1:44 PM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


The dominant social research indicates that people incorrectly believe these to not be a government handout. But I am starting think that they do indeed think of it as a handout, and resent it (status loss) , leading to voting for politicians who promise to eliminate their own benefits.

This could maybe be accomplished by simply changing the way taxes are filed. When you do your taxes at the end of the year what you're coming up with is:
A. How much in taxes you owe the government
B. How much the government owes you for all the exemption and programs you qualify for
C. How much you've already paid in taxes

Right now, we calculate A then subtract B. Compare that total to C to figure out your refund/bill.

Instead, figure out the difference between A and C to determine your refund/bill. THEN provide a second total showing the net effect of the government assistance itemized.

Thanks to these programs you saved:
-$X from the state tax deduction
-$Y from the mortgage interest deduction
-etc.

I would almost advocate the IRS sending a separate check for the last bit just to drive home that those things really the Federal Government giving you real money.
posted by VTX at 1:44 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


A reminder that while there's much work to be done,The Fundamentals Favor Democrats In 2018 from Nate Silver
So while Northam’s 9-point margin of victory was a surprise based on the polls, which had projected him to win by roughly 3 points instead, (footnote: Last night’s polling error was much bigger than most of the polling errors in 2016) it was right in line with what you might expect based on these “fundamental” factors. For instance, a simple model we developed based on the generic ballot and state partisanship forecasted a 9-point win for Democrats in Virginia and a 13-point win in New Jersey, pretty much matching their actual results in each state.

To put it another way, Tuesday’s results shouldn’t have exceeded your expectations for Democrats by all that much because you should have had high expectations already. Midterm elections — and usually also off-year and special elections — almost always go well for the opposition party, and they’re going to go especially well when the president has a sub-40 approval rating.
Emphasis original; in which everything's clear after the fact, but let's continue...
So, does that mean that Democrats are clear favorites to pick up the House next year? No, not necessarily. I’d say they’re favorites, but not particularly heavy ones. Democrats face one major disadvantage, and they have one major source of uncertainty.

The uncertainty is time: There’s still a year to go until the midterms. This could cut either way, of course. The political environment often deteriorates for the president’s party during his second year in office, and one can imagine a variety of factors (from attempting to pass an unpopular tax plan to ongoing bombshells in the Russia investigation) that could further worsen conditions for Republicans. One can also imagine a variety of factors that would help the GOP: Democrats overplaying their hand on impeachment; a rally-around-the-flag effect after a war or terror attack; Trump quitting Twitter. (OK, probably not that last one.) That Trump is so unpopular so soon in his term makes all of this harder to predict because there aren’t any good precedents for a president with such a poor approval rating so early on.
If you're looking only at history, NPR may provide more consolation -- 2018 Midterms: What To Watch For One Year Out
Going back to World War II, the president's party loses an average of 28 seats in his first midterm election — and none of those were under someone with approval ratings like Trump's a year out, which just hit a new 33 percent low in last week's Gallup Poll. Democrats need 24 seats to take back the majority. And, while it's early, the generic ballot test is in the range it needs to be for Democrats to have widespread successes. In the Washington Post/ABC News survey released this past weekend, voters said they prefer a Democratic representative over a GOP one by an 11-point margin — the widest edge for Democrats since just ahead of 2006, the last time they took back the House.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:53 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Except that there are some jobs where it just isn't possible to pay a market-clearing wage; no matter how high the wages get, you can't hire enough people. Welding really pays pretty well, and it's a very portable skill that's always in demand, and it's still hella hard to hire enough welders, even if you're paying above market.

I'm familiar with this problem, having spent time trying to hire software developers, but this is also a training problem. It's hard to hire enough welders, but it's much easier to hire people who can learn to weld. But businesses don't want to do that, first because it costs money, and second because, as you say, it's a very portable skill that's always in demand, and the person you just spent big bucks to train can walk out the door to a higher paying job next month.

But somehow this used to be easier. Those iconic ironworkers in "Lunch Atop a Skyscraper" (ok, that photo is posed, but actual people built 30 Rock in 1932), they learned to be ironworkers somewhere. Union apprenticeship programs are still a thing, but far smaller than they used to be. Heck, casual restaurants didn't used to demand years of food service experience before they'd hire a waiter. Hiring a web developer? We're a Django shop and everybody must have worked with that for years; we'd never retrain a Rails developer. It seems like every job only wants to hire people who have previously done the exact same job now, that businesses are incredibly reluctant to train any employees even as they constantly claim they struggle to fill positions.
posted by zachlipton at 1:54 PM on November 8, 2017 [42 favorites]


Dammit, you're stealing my articles from tonight!
posted by Chrysostom at 1:54 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't particularly care about stories about poor regretful whites whose lives have unaccountably not been improved by Trump's election, since Trump didn't win on a wave of angry poor whites, but rather by the skin of his teeth, on the back of the usual Republican electorate of Burger King franchise owners who didn't make the Navy SEALs because they were too mentally elite for the unit. Their suffering is real and their racism is real, and it's frustrating that the latter makes it easy for plutocrats to pander to them so they can make the former even worse. Still, I wish there were half as many articles about The Usual Republican CHUD, a supervisor for a Pennske location who listens to Chet Chadwick's "Big Trucks and Beer" to get in touch with his roots, as about the Johnstowns of the country.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 1:58 PM on November 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


The Strange Pleasure of Seeing Carter Page Set Himself on Fire (Daily Beast)
Watching Carter Page immolate himself and incriminate a half dozen of his colleagues from the Trump-Putin 2016 campaign has been a strange, almost guilty pleasure. Profoundly disconnected, socially awkward, and reeking of late-stage virginity, he gives off the creepy Uncanny Valley vibe of a rogue, possibly murderous android or of a man with a too-extensive knowledge of human taxidermy and a soundproofed van.

Legal scholars watching Page’s borderline insane interviews, reviewing his bizarre public statements and reading the wackadoodle transcripts of his testimony to congressional investigators have expressed various levels of shock. His testimony this week must have dismayed his friends in Trump world; a long, rambling, performance art piece before the House which confirmed key sections of the Steele Dossier and opened up entirely new venues for investigation.

The emerging paper trail of his forays into Russia has been amazing mosaic of comic-opera misunderstandings, grand and petty corruptions, grade-school category errors, and fundamental delusions about Putin’s kleptocracy. In short, Page is a perfect example of the ad-hoc weirdness of the Trump campaign, Trumpism’s deep, misplaced love of Putin’s Russia, and the power of magical thinking among the coterie of misfit toys Trump calls his advisors. Page is weird and wrong and in most campaigns he’d be the weirdest, wrongest dog in the pack. In Trump world, Carter Page in the middle quintile.
posted by christopherious at 2:08 PM on November 8, 2017 [38 favorites]


Johnstown Trump voters are getting exactly what they deserve. I'm unable to give a shit.

An elderly neighbor is a Trump supporter. At the polls last year she made a beeline to me to say "May the best MAN win." Later in the day she stopped me on the sidewalk to point out her Trump poster in comparison to my Hillary poster.

I've been waiting for her to engage me again about politics because I finally have a response that doesn't involve cursing. "You do what you have to. I'm going to keep fighting so that you get to keep your Medicare."

Sadly she's only stopped me recently to tell me about her toenail woes. I'll spare you the details.
posted by mcduff at 2:10 PM on November 8, 2017 [42 favorites]


Eyebrows McGee On the one hand I can appreciate what you're saying.

On the other, and maybe this is just childish, or impatient, or whatever of me, but I have to think that this isn't rocket surgery and we shouldn't **HAVE** to be trying to figure out what combination (if any) of learning exact details of particular small towns and trying to fit in and so forth it takes to be in a position to educate people who are telling themselves lies.

Again, this is simple shit. The Medicare expansion helps the people in small towns, it helps them lots. It shouldn't be on me, as a dreaded urban dwelling liberal, to try and cajole them into accepting a program that helps them tremendously.

I mean, I get that in the world we live in that's where we're stuck.

But I resent the fact that apparently we have to expend massive mental effort in order to con the deplorables into taking the fucking help they need in hopes that if we relieve some of their self inflicted pain they'll stop lashing out at us.

Like seriously, what the actual fuck? Now before we can even think about saying "dude, you know the Medicare expansion really helps your community" we've got to spend hundreds of hours learning the details of a particular small town's economy and social life?

If that's what it takes, I suppose we'd better start studying, but I resent the sheer amount of mental effort and emotional labor we're being forced to undertake in order to offer help to a bunch of ungrateful racists. And we're not even sure if they'll take the help even after we expend this effort, and we're not even sure if once they've taken the help they'll stop lashing out at us.

That's a lot of work for a very uncertain outcome. I'm not exactly scared of work, but yeesh.
posted by sotonohito at 2:24 PM on November 8, 2017 [34 favorites]


You're also never going to be thanked and it's likely that they'll claim that they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps like a "real" American despite, and not because of, your meddling.
posted by VTX at 2:28 PM on November 8, 2017 [16 favorites]


But I resent the fact that apparently we have to expend massive mental effort in order to con the deplorables into taking the fucking help they need in hopes that if we relieve some of their self inflicted pain they'll stop lashing out at us.

i mean
it sucks
but they are not the only humans to act this way when in need of help, you know? it is a very human way to be. people struggling with problems of all types, of their own making or of circumstance, require this kind of help, and it can be immensely frustrating, and can lead to burnout and cynicism, and it can be hard not to give up. but "a lot of work for a very uncertain outcome" describes the process of working through addictions and certain other types of illnesses and struggles, just as it describes this process, i think.

it might not work for everyone -- in fact, it almost definitely won't. and even if it does work, you won't necessarily be rewarded with gratitude. and sometimes you'll wonder if it was even worthwhile to try, and it's easy to get angry or exhausted, but if it could be as easy as just telling people 'look this is what you need to do for things to be better in your life,' the problems would be gone already.
posted by halation at 2:34 PM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


Hannity has apparently announced that Fox News just hired Gorka. Because of course they did.
posted by zachlipton at 2:36 PM on November 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


Alternatively we could work on driving up turnout among Democrats and D-leaning independents, as we saw in VA yesterday, and the racists can shove it and who cares what they think.
posted by Justinian at 2:37 PM on November 8, 2017 [75 favorites]


lord_wolf: I have to confess that I frequently daydream about the amount of money I could make by jumping on the right wing grift train. I could very easily set myself up as one of the preferred go-to black guys who denounces liberalism, the Obamas, the Democratic party, Jesse Jackson, socially active black athletes and everything else they hate on demand.

Dude I know exactly what you mean. I feel a strange sense of relief at knowing that I'm not the only one who has daydreamed about selling their soul in this way. I always figured my way onto the grift train would be to play an "anchor baby who hates immigrants" angle.
posted by joedan at 2:38 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Or maybe we could do both?
posted by elsietheeel at 2:38 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


If that's what it takes, I suppose we'd better start studying, but I resent the sheer amount of mental effort and emotional labor we're being forced to undertake in order to offer help to a bunch of ungrateful racists. And we're not even sure if they'll take the help even after we expend this effort, and we're not even sure if once they've taken the help they'll stop lashing out at us.

Hey, remember that mass of nonvoters? Remember that sizeable minority of blue voters? This imagining of everyone who doesn't live in a major city as an undifferentiated* mass of ungrateful racists, of scum may scratch an emotional itch, but it's neither accurate nor good.

*or not deserving of differentiation, which is not better.
posted by The Gaffer at 2:41 PM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


> Or maybe we could do both?

Sure, but, while it doesn't take many resources to not be actively mean to the racists, it does take resources to actively reach out to them. If there are electoral gains to be had with that outreach -- and I think there are -- then those must be weighed against the electoral gains that could be had from devoting those same resources elsewhere to other segments of the electorate that might be more sympathetic to the Democratic message.

It's not quite zero sum -- there are plenty of resources in red states and districts that are basically free labor if the party can use them -- but while I want the Democrats to compete everywhere, I don't want them spending a dollar to convert a racist when turning out a non-racist can be done for ten cents. The real numbers are fuzzier and probably not as far apart as that, but you get the idea.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:56 PM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


"Like seriously, what the actual fuck? Now before we can even think about saying "dude, you know the Medicare expansion really helps your community" we've got to spend hundreds of hours learning the details of a particular small town's economy and social life?"

Uh, no, as you and the OP both missed in my comment, I noted that there are already groups on the ground doing this work who have already done that work and instead of reinventing the wheel you should support those groups (such as, I linked to, in my area, Wellstone). Instead of "Let's make a Peace Corps to go to Indiana!" how about you talk to Democrats in Indiana and find out what they're doing and what help they need? I can imagine few things more likely to backfire than a "Peace Corp" of coastal types who call the midwest "flyover country" dropping in to preach to us the Gospel of Leftism and expecting us to get enlightened, when they haven't even talked to the local organizers or found out about local programs!

Although, yes, as a matter of politics, you don't parachute into communities knowing jack shit about them and make a pitch that's tailored to an entirely different community. That's dramatically bad campaigning. A point you made during the election cycle when bemoaning various Democrats' failings.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 3:00 PM on November 8, 2017 [37 favorites]


Well, I just got emails from my rep, Pete Sessions, no relation to evil keebler, with the GOP talking points for the cutcutcut bill. And because it's that kind of day, I sat down to write him a note in response, which turned into an 18 paragraph explanation of how this bill was a repudiation of anything good the GOP had ever stood for, that he would personally be responsible for hundreds of his constituents losing their homes, and healthcare, and how it would destroy the local economies as people rushed to sell their homes to rent seekers before they were bankrupted by the perfect storm of taxation and policies that benefited nobody but the wealthiest people. I also tossed in how ashamed I was that he would choose to side with Russian assets like trump and people who keep all their money offshore and thus pay no taxes, rather than supporting his constituents, most of whom were just trying to keep their heads above water. I threw in how far the party had strayed from the ideals of real republicans like Truman, and some softballs with gospel about how we treat the least amongst us. It won't do a damn bit of good, but y'all, I was raised by nuns, and I can do soft guilt like a pro, so I felt pretty good about hitting the send button.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:05 PM on November 8, 2017 [62 favorites]


Yeah, I’m sure Sean Spicer with his Harvard fellowships, paid tv appearances and high profile consulting gigs is feeling super owned. Former Trumpers are getting lucrative gigs faster than they can get fired. It’s pretty disgusting how being an unapologetic liar on behalf of Trump pretty much doesn’t have long term consequences from the left or the right. No wonder Brad Pitt was such a big fan of carving Nazi sins into scalps.
posted by cyphill at 3:07 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


And another thing, to borrow a phrase from David Mitchell, I too have thought about starting a PAC, just to fleece the stupid, but couldn't actually pull the trigger, because what if by playing their game, you get infected with their nam-shub, and become on of them. I mean,just look at what that brain parasite has done to bannon and conway.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:10 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


[...] But businesses don't want to [hire people who can learn to weld], first because it costs money, and second because, as you say, it's a very portable skill that's always in demand, and the person you just spent big bucks to train can walk out the door to a higher paying job next month.

But somehow this used to be easier. [...]

People used to change jobs less frequently. It's easier than ever for skilled labor to find a new employer -- the actual process of applying has been streamlined, and there are more employers in most geographical areas. The notion of working for one employer for 30 or 40 years has gone from aspirational to laughable.

My ought-to-be-conservative proposal would be a system where the government pays for skill training, and levies a small extra income tax on beneficiaries for a few years after the training to make sure that the system was revenue-positive and to avoid any moral hazard. I honestly don't see how something like that isn't a straight-up Republican proposal already: Capital benefits from a larger skilled labor pool, workers in dying communities benefit from more opportunities, the extra tax on the beneficiaries would mean it's not a "handout," and everyone else's taxes could go down a bit.

(My ought-to-be-centrist proposal eliminates the tax, 'cause skilled workers pay more taxes on average anyway. My lefty proposal is UBI, 'cause not everyone can learn to weld or code or whatever.)
posted by reventlov at 3:18 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


That Johnstown story is heavy stuff. At this point, for the people in Johnstown, at least, is it even cognitive dissonance any more? Or is it just a willful denial of what even they know is the truth, like the dying person determined to believe in a quack cure?

Based on what my wife (who grew up in Johnstown) and her parents (who still live there)—all of them lifelong Dems who hate Trump—tell me and show me on their Facebook feeds, seriously, it's the racism.

Or maybe more to the point, it's something even deeper, that racism is often a symptom of: the profound, absolute refusal to acknowledge (let alone accept) that the world is other than you imagine it to be. Their world being, in the case of Johnstown Trumpers, that place where there's high demand for white people who don't have time for pointless shit like education, or curiosity, or complexity.

And when somebody dares to suggest that such people—good white people, who believe in God and everything!—are maybe not as useful as they once may have been in places like Johnstown, at that point, you're fucking with what people want to believe. And nothing's as powerful as what people want to believe.

So when somebody like Trump comes along and tells them, "Some people say you're backward; I say you're spot-on, and I'll re-make the world to match your idea of it!" it's the easiest thing in the world to get them to believe it. By extension, everybody who deviates from the norms in their world (non-whites, LGBTs, educated people) is by definition their enemy. And if you're any kind of American, you know that enemies are good for cursing, and fighting, and killing.

So, to answer the question above... it's more like a willful denial that somebody they could totally beat up could know what the world is like more than they do. Or like a dying person determined to die just to prove that they don't have to listen to somebody who says "You probably won't die if you don't drink that poison."
posted by Rykey at 3:19 PM on November 8, 2017 [72 favorites]


Eyebrows McGee Well, that's the other thing. I lived the first 39 years of my life in Texan Redneckistan, a place that went Trump by 80% in 2016. And the local liberals have made no progress at all. I was part of 'em, and I certainly tried.

As Rykey notes, it's mostly racism.

I think the reason people are talking about a Peace Corps for Indiana is because so far the local people haven't managed to actually accomplish anything. I didn't. I failed for 39 years to make shit worth of difference and then I ran away to a more liberal part of the state.

I hate to say they're unreachable, but, well, I think a lot of them basically are.
posted by sotonohito at 3:37 PM on November 8, 2017 [23 favorites]


> Mass Shootings, Climate, Discrimination: Why Government's Fear of Data Threatens Us All (Adam Rogers for Wired, Nov. 7, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 9:37 AM on November 8


That piece is worthy of a FPP, imo.
posted by homunculus at 3:44 PM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


I hate to say they're unreachable, but, well, I think a lot of them basically are.

Me too. I think the only solution is to work to create conditions where fewer people become unreachable, mitigate the damage the unreachables can do, and get everybody else to vote.
posted by Rykey at 3:53 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


Hannity has apparently announced that Fox News just hired Gorka. Because of course they did.

You know, I don't think this is going to work out so well. Because really, is most of the Fox News demographic made up of the type of people who enjoy being talked down to in the most condescending manner possible by a hoity-toity foreigner (shared racism notwithstanding)?
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:54 PM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]




Rykey:Or maybe more to the point, it's something even deeper, that racism is often a symptom of: the profound, absolute refusal to acknowledge (let alone accept) that the world is other than you imagine it to be. Their world being, in the case of Johnstown Trumpers, that place where there's high demand for white people who don't have time for pointless shit like education, or curiosity, or complexity.

And when somebody dares to suggest that such people—good white people, who believe in God and everything!—are maybe not as useful as they once may have been in places like Johnstown, at that point, you're fucking with what people want to believe. And nothing's as powerful as what people want to believe.


Thank you for putting into words the exact sentiment I've been struggling to codify all afternoon.

I grew up just south of Johnstown, in Somerset. Johnstown is the closest "city" to my hometown (25 miles) and has the closest mall, the closest movie theater, etc.. My father still lives there, my friends parents still live there, and for most of my life it was "home".

I've started and stopped and started again a half-dozen times now trying to put together a coherent response to that article, and I am right out of evens. All I can do is affirm: it is a deeply accurate portrayal of the people and circumstances in that region, and there is no reaching them, ever.

(on preview Rykey nails it again with: mitigate the damage the unreachables can do). That's it. That's all we can do.
posted by namewithoutwords at 4:05 PM on November 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


YES we are TRYING but they VOTE AGAINST IT over and over and do NOT CARE

This is what people in flyover country mean when they say that nobody listens to them. They don’t want handouts because they’re proud. They’re wounded in the most emotionally vulnerable place because they can’t take care of their families through hard work like they’ve had drilled into them all their lives. For us to come in and force them to be subservient to the government?

They don’t want our charity. They want to be able to provide for their family and be proud of themselves.
posted by Talez at 4:09 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


They don’t want our charity.
Most of the people 'like that' who I've known want charity, as long as it isn't called charity. They want a raise and a promotion every year until they become the Boss who hardly has to lift a finger all day, and if their trajectory to that goal is stopped, they want somebody easy to blame. Their idea of "how the world works/should work" has no resemblance to any reality for the last 40 years, so they reach out to somebody who has been the prototype for a success/millionaire/star for 40 years... Donald Trump.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:17 PM on November 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


talez - You're certainly painting a picture of the most demanding whiny shitheads possible there. I hope they aren't like that.
posted by Artw at 4:17 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Barbara Stephenson, head of foreign service association, says US has lost more than half its career ambassadors since Donald Trump took office.
posted by adamvasco at 4:23 PM on November 8, 2017 [18 favorites]


"This is what people in flyover country mean when they say that nobody listens to them. "

Uh, also we mean that lots of us are college-educated Democrats, or urban Democrats of color, or socialist farmers, or many other things, who are already working on these issues, and (sotonohito's despair notwithstanding) making good progress in places. We're not a faceless mass of whiney heroin addicts laid off from the steel mill who all vote Trump.

There are actually people ON THIS VERY WEBSITE who live in flyover country and are politically active therein. You could try listening to US! What we mean when we say nobody listens to us is that we're telling you what flyover country is like from within flyover country and you're overwriting our narrative with the NYT's breathless reporting on heroin country, while complaining they spend too much time trying to understand Trump voters. Hey, yo, there's a whole world of non-Trump-voting flyover folk here! TRY LISTENING TO US!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 4:24 PM on November 8, 2017 [102 favorites]


This is what people in flyover country mean when they say that nobody listens to them. They don’t want handouts because they’re proud.

Nobody listens because this is the a attitude of a toddler.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:25 PM on November 8, 2017 [17 favorites]


They want to be able to provide for their family and be proud of themselves.

i mean it's a nice romantic sentiment but like. if this was true then they wouldn't be furiously agitating to take away rights and funding for others just because they're different.
posted by poffin boffin at 4:27 PM on November 8, 2017 [25 favorites]


they literally care more about harming those they hate than helping those they love.
posted by poffin boffin at 4:28 PM on November 8, 2017 [51 favorites]


Also? There are plenty of people in Red states who understand that the right jobs can’t just be magicked into existence, that sustainable change will require both time and the political will to make massive investments in these depressed areas, in every arena. AND IN THE MEANTIME, it would be great to do something about all the suffering and inter generational damage of poverty.

Not everyone folds their arms and says “NO it has to be exactly the way I want it to be or I’m not playing.” But for whatever reason, we ignore the shit out of red staters who don’t seem likely to throw a tantrum.

On preview, what Eyebrows said

And man...these are the threads where we’ve all seen the same research over and over again, right? The research that says it’s not about the “charity,” it’s about hen perception that the “wrong people” might get it too? So, mostly racism. Again.
posted by schadenfrau at 4:35 PM on November 8, 2017 [24 favorites]


Eyebrows, I know that there are a lot of good people like you in 'flyover country'. We just need to do all that we can for the good people and leave the appropriately-labeled "Deplorables" behind (although maybe the Daffy Duck inspired "Despicables" may be even better), because dragging them into the 21st century (or even the 20th) depletes the energy we need for more worthy causes.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:38 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


You know, I don't think this is going to work out so well. Because really, is most of the Fox News demographic made up of the type of people who enjoy being talked down to in the most condescending manner possible by a hoity-toity foreigner (shared racism notwithstanding)?

There's also an appeal to having a supposedly smart person with a fancy accent say the same things you were already saying. It makes you feel smart by extension. This is a large factor in Jon Oliver's appeal.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:38 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Did we not get the Cuba story posted somewhere in this thread today? Trump Tightens Cuba Embargo, Restricting Access to Hotels and Businesses
The Trump administration on Wednesday tightened the economic embargo on Cuba, restricting Americans from access to hotels, stores and other businesses tied to the Cuban military.

A lengthy list of rules, which President Trump promised in June to punish the communist government in Havana, came just as Mr. Trump was visiting leaders of the communist government in Beijing and pushing business deals there. Wednesday’s announcement was part of the administration’s gradual unwinding of parts of the Obama administration’s détente with the Cuban government.

Americans wishing to visit Cuba will once again have to go through authorized tour operators, and tour guides will have to accompany the groups — making such trips more expensive.
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


CNN is running a story claiming Flynn is worried about his son in Mueller's probe.

"Former White House national security adviser Michael Flynn has expressed concern about the potential legal exposure of his son, Michael Flynn Jr., who, like his father, is under scrutiny by special counsel Robert Mueller, multiple sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

Flynn's concern could factor into decisions about how to respond to Mueller's ongoing investigation. The special counsel is looking into Russian meddling in the 2016 campaign as well as the business dealings of key campaign advisers to President Donald Trump.
Flynn's wife, Lori, shares his concerns about their son's possible legal exposure, according to a person who knows the family."

Is there any possible explanation for this except that Flynn's team is using the network Trump most loves to hate as a megaphone to ask for a pardon?
posted by scarylarry at 4:43 PM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


From the "I didn't think the leopards would eat MY face" department:

A year ago, many union members broke with their leaders and voted for Donald Trump. He’s done almost nothing to repay them.
Donald Trump was seen as a different kind of Republican. He denounced manufacturers for moving jobs south to Mexico and threatened steep tariffs on goods shipped back to the U.S., in language that could have been ripped from a United Auto Workers press release. He pledged to get tough on trade with China, whose low-wage workers put downward pressure on U.S. wages. He vowed to revive the coal industry by rolling back environmental regulations. None of this has actually happened, except for some rollback of environmental rules.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:45 PM on November 8, 2017 [15 favorites]



But people are STILL waiting for the plant to reopen, wherever that is.


Yes. This. Economists will tell you that a big thing holding back our economy is that the work force isn’t as mobile as it used to be. Workers used to migrate to where the jobs were, and that has become less common.

My own belief has been that real estate markets are one of the causes of this. If you live in Johnstown, you’re going to have a hard time securing housing in, e.g., the Bay Area because you’re just not gonna have the money. But political attitudes must play a huge role as well.
posted by chrchr at 4:47 PM on November 8, 2017 [9 favorites]


Is there any possible explanation for this except that Flynn's team is using the network Trump most loves to hate as a megaphone to ask for a pardon?

Yes. Flynn could be extraordinarily stupid.

Although I realize that's a potential explanation for literally anything this whole crew does. Probably goes without saying. But you asked, so I said. There's always the chance that they're just that fucking dumb.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:52 PM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Flynn was widely considered a very top tier counterintelligence officer before he went all Fox News. What happened to the guy? Did he get one of those amoebas that eats your brain?
posted by Justinian at 4:56 PM on November 8, 2017 [1 favorite]


They don’t want handouts because they’re proud.

Everything I see tells me that this isn't quite true. They're perfectly willing to take assistance, they are just too "proud" to take assistance that black/brown people also take because it removes their feelings of superiority. This is why there is such a focus on welfare freeloaders and such.
posted by Justinian at 4:59 PM on November 8, 2017 [30 favorites]


Flynn was widely considered a very top tier counterintelligence officer before he went all Fox News. What happened to the guy? Did he get one of those amoebas that eats your brain?

John Kelly is another example, being competent, even excellent, at an extremely narrow military tactical mission is in no way incompatible with being a raging fucking fascist human piece of garbage. In fact it might be correlated.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:03 PM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


They don’t want handouts because they’re proud.

Everything I see tells me that this isn't quite true.


Yes, even in the Johnstown article, the Trump-voting shop owner laments the fact that there's no more earmark money coming in to help businesses like his. Like Justinian says, people segregate (heh) in their minds the types of assistance they get from the government from the kind Those People get.
posted by Rykey at 5:04 PM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


Flynn was widely considered a very top tier counterintelligence officer...
I think we're learning the other meaning of 'counter-intelligence' here...
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:06 PM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


Seb Gorka illegally parked his shitty four cylinder Mustang on the sidewalk

I was imagining a 1980s Foxbody Mustang with a smashed-in taillight. These are the truly shitty four-cylinders Mustangs, with about as much power as a Renault LeCar. The new turbo four-cylinder Ecoboost engines are fine.

I felt misled and disappointed by the writer's description of Gorka's Mustang. A good editor catches stuff like this, and good editors cost money. If you can afford to subscribe to a newspaper or newsmagazine, let the Lesson of Gorka's Mustang inspire you to do so.
posted by compartment at 5:17 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


I think we're learning the other meaning of 'counter-intelligence' here...

"as smart as a slab of Formica"
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:27 PM on November 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


Is there any possible explanation for this except that Flynn's team is using the network Trump most loves to hate as a megaphone to ask for a pardon?

That he is signaling to Mueller that he is willing to make a deal for his testimony to get clemency for his son.

IIRC, some time back Flynn gave an interview where he implied that he had a story to tell. It's possible that he wasn't taken up on that offer then but Flynn thinks something has changed and someone will now. Maybe Mueller needed to shore up his evidence and leverage.

It's also possible that he knows a lot but not anything Mueller can't already prove and isn't interested anything Flynn knows so he and his son will be lucky to share a cell block.
posted by VTX at 5:27 PM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


That he is signaling to Mueller that he is willing to make a deal for his testimony to get clemency for his son.

I obviously don't know anything, but this CNN story sounds to me a lot more like Flynn speaking to Trump than Flynn speaking to Mueller. After all, Trump's the one people send messages to through cable news.

But maybe it's nothing more than a gaseous emanation of despair from someone coming to terms with the fact that he's fucked.
posted by scarylarry at 5:36 PM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Here's hoping.
posted by Artw at 5:40 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


scarylarry: "I obviously don't know anything, but this CNN story sounds to me a lot more like Flynn speaking to Trump than Flynn speaking to Mueller. After all, Trump's the one people send messages to through cable news."

I mean, if Flynn wanted to get a message to Mueller, couldn't he just have his lawyer(s) call Mueller's office rather than, say, having some associates serve as anonymous sources to a CNN report? On the other hand, if you're as radioactive as Flynn, there's no way that Kelly would let any of his communications anywhere near Trump.
posted by mhum at 5:46 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yeah, that was my thinking, too.
posted by scarylarry at 5:48 PM on November 8, 2017


In 2016, people were feeling enough pain where they needed a populist to assuage it. The Democrats had leadership that was capable of quashing any insurgent populist, because they are grownups who plan ahead. The Republicans did not. I mean, the House Speaker, the most powerful Republican apart from the President, is the living embodiment of the Peter Principle.

The only takeaway is that the Democrats need both a credible mainstream and populist candidate for an important office, and to be able to read the goddamn room.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:48 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


just spitballing here...i bet if you paid $150/hr and guaranteed a 40 hr work week, coal miners, welders, and coders would happily line up to learn django. throw in a 5-yr service bonus (idk 50k) and your retention problem evaporates.

i know i simplify, but face it, today's MBAs believe the only mutable budget items are wages, salary, and healthcare. never executive compensation or cash stockpiles.
posted by j_curiouser at 5:53 PM on November 8, 2017 [25 favorites]


Elizabeth Catte in the Boston Review: "The Mythical Whiteness of Trump Country"
Yet stories such as the Huffington Post’s proliferated at an alarming rate last year. Theories about a culture of poverty in Appalachia, which were originally honed in the 1960s, had become popular once more thanks to J. D. Vance’s bestselling book, Hillbilly Elegy (2016). The “memoir of a family and culture in crisis,” now set to be turned into a film by Ron Howard, had become our political moment’s favorite text for understanding the lives of disaffected Donald Trump voters and had set “hillbillies” apart as a unique specimen of white woe. Using the template of his harrowing childhood, Vance remade Appalachia in his own image as a place of alarming social decline, smoldering and misplaced resentment, and poor life choices.

In the media, Vance quickly became the chief analyzer of the white working class, and Appalachia was cast as a uniquely tragic and toxic region. The press attempted to analyze what it presented as the extraordinary and singular pathologies of Appalachians, scolding audiences to get out of their bubbles and embrace empathy with the “forgotten America” before its residents elected Trump.

Cataloguing these pieces about the “Appalachia problem” became something of a hobby for me, and the most telling aspect wasn’t what they said about Appalachia, but what they didn’t say. According to the bulk of coverage, including in Hillbilly Elegy, nonwhite people, anyone with progressive politics, those who care about the environment, LGBTQ individuals, young folks, and a host of others do not exist in Appalachia.
[...]
As the National Review, which employed Vance as an occasional contributor, asserted in its gleeful review of the book, Hillbilly Elegy had at long last proved that white Appalachians have “followed the black underclass and Native Americans not just into family disintegration, addiction, and other pathologies, but also perhaps into the most important self-sabotage of all, the crippling delusion that they cannot improve their lot by their own effort.”

For many conservatives, the beauty of Hillbilly Elegy was not just what it said about the lot of poor white Americans, but what it implied about black Americans as well. Conservatives believed that Hillbilly Elegy would make their intellectual platforming about the moral failures of the poor colorblind in a way that would retroactively vindicate them for viciously deploying the same stereotypes against nonwhite people for decades.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 5:56 PM on November 8, 2017 [58 favorites]


300k a year at 40hrs/wk max with a 50k bonus? Why not a pony too?
posted by Justinian at 5:57 PM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


300k a year at 40hrs/wk max with a 50k bonus? Why not a pony too?

which is exactly the kind of response the average C-suite compensation package should be met with.
posted by halation at 6:01 PM on November 8, 2017 [22 favorites]


@gdebenedetti: Hmm: Tom Steyer's group is making a "major announcement" tomorrow. Team now includes Bernie lawyer Brad Deutsch and Hillary/Obama pollster @JohnAnzo...

itshappening.gif?
posted by zachlipton at 6:01 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]


To *learn* Django?

Ho ho ho ho.
posted by Artw at 6:02 PM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


That Vanity Fair article was extremely good. It's instructive that those executives (one of them the former head of my "box") had no idea that the quality of their childhood was influenced by USDA programs until they actually joined the agency. I know from my own Facebook page that my old classmates in rural Michigan have no idea how they've benefited from USDA programs. One of my classmates matter-of-factly informed me that I was picking the public's pocket, and I described one program I'm associated with, the IR-4 program, which funds research to get pesticides* registered for minor crops. Big agribusiness is not going to bother to register pesticides for, say, parsley, so if small growers want to grow higher value small crops like herbs, they rely on this program. (Happy ending: my classmate backed off and admitted she didn't know what she was talking about). It's clear from this article that the people most helped are also the most likely to vote against our programs. I give talks at local garden clubs but maybe I need to join the Rotary or Elks to constantly chat up the importance of the kind of work we do. And maybe this article shouldn't be in "Vanity Fair" but somewhere less one percenty.

And I was not very amused by this NPR reporting on the article, which kept circling back to how BORING they expected the USDA to be. Come on, NPR, don't make my "driveway moment" me crying from hurt feelings.

*including safe biorationals. Do not fight me about pesticides right now.
posted by acrasis at 6:09 PM on November 8, 2017 [64 favorites]


While he didn’t use the exact word “fight,” in internet-hardo language, I view “where do you want to meet” as equivalent to “let’s take it outside.”

Yes! Enemies to lovers is my fav trope!
posted by greermahoney at 6:15 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


@gdebenedetti: Hmm: Tom Steyer's group is making a "major announcement" tomorrow. Team now includes Bernie lawyer Brad Deutsch and Hillary/Obama pollster @JohnAnzo...


this is one of a couple of impeachment motion rumblings i've heard post-election and i dunno, it really doesn't seem like the math works out yet? yesterday was a bit of a drubbing for the GOP but it's still just an off-off year election and i'm not convinced that the failstench on trump has grown so strong that the house republican rank-and-file are ready to underthrow him buswards.

i would love to be wrong tho
posted by murphy slaw at 6:38 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


@gdebenedetti: Hmm: Tom Steyer's group is making a "major announcement" tomorrow. Team now includes Bernie lawyer Brad Deutsch and Hillary/Obama pollster @JohnAnzo...

My guess - he's announcing a run for office.
posted by triggerfinger at 6:47 PM on November 8, 2017 [8 favorites]




Steyer's been toying with running for Feinstein's seat, this may be that.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:52 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Annals of Don't Give a Fuck-dom:
Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) announced Wednesday the Senate Foreign Relations Committee would hold a hearing next week on “the executive’s authority to use nuclear weapons.”

“A number of members both on and off our committee have raised questions about the authorities of the legislative and executive branches with respect to war making, the use of nuclear weapons, and conducting foreign policy overall,” Corker said in a statement announcing the Nov. 14 hearing. [The Hill]
posted by Chrysostom at 6:57 PM on November 8, 2017 [38 favorites]




BBC: George Papadopoulos meeting with UK during Trump campaign revealed
Dismissed by the White House as a "low-level volunteer", more about the true status of adviser George Papadopoulos seems to emerge by the day.

The Trump campaign foreign policy aide's contacts with Russians have already got him in trouble. He has admitted lying to the FBI about them.

But it is now revealed he also met a British Foreign Office official, two months before the US presidential election, for a "working level" meeting.

"As you would expect in the run up to an election we seek to build links with figures in both the Democratic and Republican presidential campaigns," a Foreign and Commonwealth Office spokeswoman told the BBC, confirming the meeting. "This type of outreach is normal diplomatic business."

While such meetings may be routine diplomacy, the fact that Papadopoulos was presenting himself to the government of one of the US's closest allies as a representative of the Trump campaign undercuts the White House's recent assertion that Papadopoulos was a campaign volunteer of little importance.
posted by chris24 at 7:22 PM on November 8, 2017 [28 favorites]


From Seb Gorka Just Challenged Me to a Fight Over Email and I Accepted
… Seriously tho what the hell is the point of buying a Mustang if it’s not a V8. Answer me coward @SebGorka
------
The whole reason we were having this ridiculous, anime dialogue-esque email banter is because Gorka broke the law by parking his Shitty Mustang on the sidewalk — but now he was worried about obeying laws?
------
Hell yeah, I thought, he was back in fighting mode. “Absolutely, I can spot a four cylinder Ford Focus posing as a muscle car from a mile away. I’ll be at [redacted address],” I said.
------
“Multiple sources close to Gorka are saying he does not drive a Shitty Mustang. In fact, his car is actually better than the V8 version because of fuel efficiency, insiders told this reporter” — is what I’d imagine Domenech or Mollie Hemingway might write in my situation.
------
Hell, if he’s too scared to even have a debate than we could at least get back to the heart of this disagreement and have a drag race — I’d bet good money that my Honda Nighthawk bike could take his Shitty Mustang.
I know it's juvenile but I am living for all the car-based insults. These guys are just so easy to bait.
posted by triggerfinger at 7:23 PM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:
-- Mentioned upstream, but if you missed it, two more GOP House retirements yesterday, and that was BEFORE the day's results:
* Ted Poe will be retiring from TX-02 (Houston area). Poe was re-elected in 2016 61-36. District went Romney 63-36, Trump 52-43. Certainly a stretch, but a possibility for a pickup.

* The other one was much more tantalizing - Frank LoBiondo is leaving NJ-02 (southern chunk of NJ). He won 59-37 in 2016, district went 54-45 Obama, 51-46 Trump. Dems are viewing this as a top pickup opportunity.
-- Also mentioned earlier, looks like AZ-02's Martha McSally has decided to make the run at Jeff Flake's seat. She's probably a better bet for the GOP than Kelli Ward (or AZ-04's Paul Gosar, who is also toying with running), but the Dems would have a great shot at her Tucson area seat.

-- Looking forward, everyone's expectations are that last night's results will push more GOPers to not run again. Look for several announcements soon.

-- 538: The pundits are under-estimating Dems' chance of retaking the House.

-- Nate Cohn, on the other hand, remains a little more skeptical - VA was primed by having so many GOP-held seats that voted Clinton. Dems will need to win GOP-held Trump seats, too.
** AL Senate special -- Strategy Research poll has Moore up 51-40. That's basically steady with their last two polls. I'd like to see someone else poll this race, SR is the only outfit we've seen for a while.

** Odds & ends:
-- We've been tracking the Virginia House of Delegates status in the election day thread. Dems are currently at 15 gains, four seats left with narrow GOP leads that could go to recount. If that is pursued, we won't have a final result until December.

-- Slightly self-congratulatory but interesting piece from Flippable about the VA House races.

-- Voter turnout way up in cities with ranked choice voting implemented. Need to compare against other cities, but interesting.

-- The Crosstab: Congressional elections becoming more closely correlated with presidential results; also, incumbency effects seems to be declining.

-- More 538 data-crunching of VA House and NJ Senate results.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:38 PM on November 8, 2017 [42 favorites]


Seb Gorka Just Challenged Me to a Fight Over Email and I Accepted

Ha ha ha! I know very little about cars and do not give a shit about them in my own life or others' lives, but even I had to say about the initial Gorka dispute, "Jesus Christ, what kind of wimpy faux latterday pseudo-Mustang is this that doesn' t have a V8?" It's like buying a Porsche 911 with automatic transmission -- what's the fuckin' point?
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:40 PM on November 8, 2017 [4 favorites]


Oh, December special elections info tomorrow.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:41 PM on November 8, 2017 [11 favorites]


My wife has a little Subaru econo-sedan that can out-corner and out-stop that "pony car" and it has a no-kidding lifetime powertrain warranty from the dealer. Once it reaches 60k miles (before then it has to be a Subaru dealer to honor the factory warranty), she can take it to any one of the affiliated "warranty network" shops (I've had work done at one out of pocket on a Kia SUV, and the dude was beyond honest) - and the dealer has a perpetual fund set up to reimburse the shop, in case the dealer goes broke. It works because Subaru.

I don't know how this all plays out fifty years from now, but knowing we're off the hook for anything other than regular maintenance (scrupulously documented) for the next hundred thousand miles or so is nice.

I cannot imagine a Ford dealership even contemplating this. Also for an econobox it's very comfy for tall drivers and petite drivers and has a lot of thoughtful touches to make going places pleasant.

I mean, if you're not actually in it for the V8 and 700hp, why not get something actually nice and useful?

Trumpism in a nutshell. Form over substance.
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:43 PM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


> Today, we the people are abandoning and shutting down our largest radio telescopes, while China is on a telescope building spree, and a Russian billionaire funds SETI.

Relevant post.
posted by homunculus at 7:45 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Nazi got a little v, is what we are saying?
posted by Artw at 7:46 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


Didn't they read The Three Body Problem?
posted by Bovine Love at 7:46 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


Also, Pelosi as Speaker once more? The woman runs the tightest ship we've seen since Tip O'Neil. She has mitigated so much harm, and ushered in so much good. Love it. Put her in power again, and let the Republic rise anew!
posted by Slap*Happy at 7:59 PM on November 8, 2017 [29 favorites]


That’s my senator! Read the whole thing, friends.

I was really disappointed she didn't get picked for veep. REALLY. Disappointed. I was sure that would have been mmmmmagic! /Carson

*shrug* Interesting times.
posted by petebest at 8:11 PM on November 8, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is surely a derail, but Ron Howard is going to make a film out of that execrable "Hillbilly Elegy"? Little Ronnie Howard, who grew up in Hollywood and does great voiceover work?

This is going to be a disaster, isn't it? it's going to be earnest, and white, and terrible, isn't it? Oh please tell me I'm wrong.

On the bright side, I suppose at least it will have Clint, maybe.
posted by allthinky at 8:24 PM on November 8, 2017 [14 favorites]


I could get on board with a Ron Howard-narrated, Arrested Development-style adaptation of Hillbilly Elegy
posted by Meow Face at 8:53 PM on November 8, 2017 [7 favorites]


Workers used to migrate to where the jobs were, and that has become less common.
My own belief has been that real estate markets are one of the causes of this.


Good point. It was hard for a single person with nothing to move to SoCal 30 years ago and get going. I can't imagine it now with a family. The disparity between cost of living is pretty drastic a lot of places now.

One of the things I never imagined about this future was that people would move a lot less.

i bet if you paid $150/hr and guaranteed a 40 hr work week, coal miners, welders, and coders would happily line up to learn django. throw in a 5-yr service bonus (idk 50k) and your retention problem evaporates.

I'm in. This "django", does it hurt much?
posted by bongo_x at 9:35 PM on November 8, 2017 [5 favorites]


re: django, ponies, unicorns &c

hyperbole is a thing. the point is, the 'capitalism' thinks the market functions for everything *except* labor. there's a price point where engineers will line up.

H1Bs kinda prove the point. it's not that there aren't skilled USians to do the work, it's that they won't do the work at a rate that buys new yachts for execs.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:35 PM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


It must be noted that Ron Howard was the narrator and one of 5 Executive Producers of AD, Mitchell Hurwitz got the Created By credit. So a movie version of Hillbilly Elegy is as likely to resemble The Han Solo Movie or one of his other recent credits, like Frost/Nixon or The DaVinci Code or Curious George.

Narrator: Okay, NOT Curious George.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:42 PM on November 8, 2017


CMA Awards Open With Serious Tribute – Then Hilarious Trump Parodies by Brad Paisley and Carrie Underwood (embedded video + transcript of the parodies).

I wonder how Trump feels about country music stars singing "maybe next time he’ll think before he tweets."

(And while the applause and laughter was light, I didn't hear any booing, FWIW.)
posted by filthy light thief at 9:48 PM on November 8, 2017 [12 favorites]


I know Trump is two countries past Japan by now, but did we not mention how Shinzo Abe went tumbling backwards into a bunker while playing golf with Trump? And Trump didn't notice this at all behind him? Because that's a thing that happened, and it's totally amazing.
posted by zachlipton at 9:57 PM on November 8, 2017 [13 favorites]


The other advantage of taking a welding course is that you end up with a pair of welding gauntlets, which are so thick that your cat is unable to bite you when you administer antibiotics.

Literally solving all problems.
posted by um at 10:08 PM on November 8, 2017 [50 favorites]


Trump wants to replace computers with human couriers.

steam-powered, coal-fired human couriers.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:11 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


Rachel Sklar, WaPo: An alternative history of the year since Election Day 2016
The year since the 2016 election has been dizzying. But would it have been just as dizzying if Hillary Clinton had won? A year into the scariest experiment the American Experiment has ever experimented with, here’s a glimpse at the alternate timeline that we just barely missed out on.

Nov. 8, 2016: Madam President! The first female president of the United States, Hillary Clinton, wins the popular vote by 3 million votes and ekes out a narrow electoral college victory by winning Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, just like the polls all said! On Etsy, a million “Madam President” onesies go up for sale.

After holing up in Trump Tower refusing to talk to anyone except Ivanka, Donald Trump finally concedes at 2:43 a.m. Later, he tweets, “Conceded dumb election to Crooked Hillary. Rigged! #MAGA #2020″

Nov. 9, 2016: Clinton pledges to work with the Obama administration for a smooth transition. People are not openly weeping in their workplaces. Democratic National Committee Chair Donna Brazile graciously accepts compliments about how well the campaign was handled and praises the Clinton campaign as “a great partner” in rebuilding the DNC. […]

Nov. 22, 2016: In an exclusive interview with the New York Times, Clinton touches on a wide variety of issues. The transcript is widely read, and widely understood. […]

Dec. 30, 2016: In a Pew survey, journalists report feeling healthier, less stressed and better rested since the campaign. “It’s still 24/7, but just, like, a normal 24/7,” says one former embed. “I’m so excited for a healthier 2017!” The Washington Post unveils its new slogan, “Things Are Great!” and the New York Times unveils theirs, “We’re Good, Thanks.”

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:31 PM on November 8, 2017 [10 favorites]


The New York Times I know would have changed their slogan to "She's A Witch" and had at least one op-ed calling for impeachment before inauguration day if Clinton won, but sure, nice alternate history there.
posted by zachlipton at 10:40 PM on November 8, 2017 [48 favorites]


This "django", does it hurt much?

Probably yes.
posted by thelonius at 11:02 PM on November 8, 2017 [3 favorites]


House Oversight Committee - Carter Page, the fanfic.

tags - Backstory, Badfic, Newbie, Plotbunny, Pre-slash, Rarepair, Spoiler, TBC, Whump, Woobie, Xeno.
posted by sebastienbailard at 11:38 PM on November 8, 2017 [6 favorites]


If Clinton had been elected, realistically, we'd still be hearing about Buttery Males and the Senate would still be declining to consider Presidential nominations.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:41 PM on November 8, 2017 [27 favorites]


We also finally be getting to the bottom of this damn coverup in Benghazi. Just a few more committee hearings...
posted by Justinian at 12:09 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


CNN, Academic at heart of Clinton 'dirt' claim vanishes, leaving trail of questions
Joseph Mifsud, the Maltese academic suspected of being a link between the Trump campaign and Russian officials, was once a regular on the foreign policy circuit, attending conferences the world over.

Now, after being identified as a key figure in the US special counsel investigation into Russian influence over the 2016 US presidential election, Mifsud has gone to ground.

Last Thursday he disappeared from the private university in Rome where he teaches. Repeated attempts to reach him since have been unsuccessful, though he appears to have read some messages from CNN.
...
An associate also told CNN that he repeatedly bragged about how Moscow had "compromising material" on the Clinton campaign in spring 2016, contradicting Mifsud's assertion that he never talked about Russian "dirt" on the Democratic presidential bid.
...
For the most popular talk-show on Russian television, Mifsud's activities are now the object of ridicule. On Sunday, the show's host, Dmitry Kiselev, said that Papadopoulos was introduced to the fictional Putin niece by "a fly-by Maltese professor called Joseph Mifsud, a retired bottom-feeder diplomat."
I'm pretty concerned about this guy's well-being at this point.
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 AM on November 9, 2017 [39 favorites]


He's just enjoying a nice week at the polonium spa.
posted by Justinian at 12:16 AM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


The BBC has been running the same sort of Trumpist voter one year on 'we still like him, he speaks his mind' stuff, which is pretty unlistenable. But there was one exchange last night where the reporter asked one "Your biggest worry is healthcare, right?" "Yes." "And your insurance premiums have doubled?" "Yes, they have." "Who do you blame that on?" "Weeeelll.... I guess I'd have to blame that on Trump, he moved the subsidy back to the insurers".

That last was said with considerable reluctance, but it was said. And the number one issue in VA was healthcare.

So, I think one can overthink strategy and finessing the message. Forget the broad-spectrum awfulness, the uncountable sins and ever-multiplying crimes of 45 and his cronies. Those who care, care. Those who don't, don't. By all means include them in the package; don't expect them to change minds (unless 45 is actually being fitted for his tangerine dungarees by then...).

There's a simple message for 2018 - kick the fuckers out or they'll take your healthcare away, They've started to do already. Let us stop them. That's the sort of fact which gets past the filters.
posted by Devonian at 2:05 AM on November 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


This "django", does it hurt much?

It's Python, so no. It does vibrate, but you have to import vibration first.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:58 AM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


In my diligence, reviewing the record here, I found this comment by mefite peeedro. Which terminates by saying that maybe Carter Page is unwell. That was posted in September. To some of us then, it was already evident, reality doesn't support them.

This incoherent, rambling testimony they gave (without a lawyer!), perhaps represents the inevitable collision with reality that has broken all the dispirate versions of reality that exist within Page. This guy really is unwell. He's disassociating in most senses of the term.

Of the victims, we have to apply equity. I know the triage is brutal, but among the people here, some of you have expressed in your own family the stories of the confused and disorientated. The truth is, people like Carter Page are victims too.
posted by adept256 at 2:58 AM on November 9, 2017




about the johnstown thing -

did you know that cambria county is considered a swing district, due to the division of urban and rural voters and johnstown is the only large town?

did you know that johnstown is 14% african american?

did you know this article is pandering to the prejudices of its audience by cherry-picking the people quoted, a lot like fox news would do?

the first two facts are available in wikipedia, but how many looked?

the second ought to be more obvious, but isn't

no, you do not understand small town industrial america

short version - you've been trolled
posted by pyramid termite at 3:29 AM on November 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


I haven't been trolled. This is one of dozens of similar articles I've seen since the election. 'You don't understand but this is what it's like' style, 'who voted for trump anyhow?' stuff that's been around for a year. This is just the anniversary edition.

Seriously, it's lazy journalism at this point to go into a random small town and ask why they are Trumpoids. It's because they are bigots. Now the weather.
posted by adept256 at 3:44 AM on November 9, 2017 [32 favorites]


no, you do not understand small town industrial america

short version - you've been trolled
posted by pyramid termite at 7:29 PM on November 9 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Without meaning to impugn anyone who identified with the article, because even though I'm not from there, but from a similar place, I did, I proffer this - any article that whitewashes is trolling.

You know it's whitewashing when they don't ask the minority. Where I'm from, we get the occasional article about rural decline, or the meth addiction, or as an example of the red reality of a rural swing state. The funny part is, if you're in my old hometown and feel stalky, follow one of the 30+% of the Hispanic or Asian minorities down the street, and you'll notice them going into yon garishly labeled coffeehouses and grocery stores where the Trumpwhite (TM Go USA) team never goes, not even the liberally inclined Dem-voting community college professors and their Lutheran ilk, and once you're in there and overcome their sidelong glances (yes the ginger is dusty who dusts ginger peel/reboil it you savage (and typing to you from Jakarta, misunderstanding of dusty ginger is not just an American thing)), they have opinions that differ somewhat from what nearly every scrap of coverage of said town would have you believe.

Rural America is hardly a dying monoculture. It's a melting pot dominated by a legally and culturally privileged majority that needs to sit the f**k down. At least that was my experience of it.
posted by saysthis at 4:11 AM on November 9, 2017 [50 favorites]


> Nice article by Richard Ford in the Irish Times
From the article:
For the right kind of person, such lies suppress curiosity rather than ignite it. We now seem to be that kind of person.
It's a poignantly true observation. Fortunately, "we" can still entertain such introspective thought.
posted by runcifex at 4:26 AM on November 9, 2017


I mean... sorry the article about Johnstown Trump voters one year after the election didn't cover enough non-Trump voters, and had the audacity to discuss something in detail that should be waved away as "Racists, whatever, next!", I guess? I'm not sure why these are damning indictments of that article per se.
posted by Rykey at 4:37 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Nation: The NRA Took a Big Swing in Virginia and Missed: Are the politics of gun control finally shifting?
Virginia’s elections on Tuesday night were a stinging loss for the Republican Party. Governor-elect Ralph Northam won by the biggest margin for a Democratic gubernatorial candidate since 1985, and Democrats made massive and unexpected gains in the House of Delegates.

Election night was also very difficult for the National Rifle Association, which is headquartered in Fairfax, Virginia, and spent big bucks in an effort to defeat Northam and several other Democrats who ultimately won. The NRA poured over $2 million into races in Virginia, including a massive $750,000 advertising push in the last three weeks before the election.

The losses came up and down the ticket. Northam, Lieutenant Governor–elect Justin Fairfax, and Attorney General Mark Herring all faced NRA-backed candidates and won. In 13 competitive races where the Democratic candidate was endorsed by the pro–gun control group Giffords (until recently known as Americans for Responsible Solutions) and the Republican was backed by the NRA, the Giffords candidate was victorious in 12. The winner of the 13th race still hasn’t been declared, as Democrat Shelly Simonds and Republican David Yancey await a full vote tally. Among the winners was Chris Hurst, whose girlfriend was fatally shot on the air as she reported for a local Virginia television station. His opponent was backed by the NRA.

Other gun-control groups like Moms Demand Action and Everytown also pushed hard for these pro–gun control Democrats—Everytown dumped $700,000 into Virginia races as election day drew near.

NRA candidates in very safe Republican districts still won, but that was to be expected. In short, the NRA got its clock cleaned everywhere that mattered.
posted by chris24 at 4:43 AM on November 9, 2017 [40 favorites]


In Australia, where we have modern health coverage, 'taking our healthcare away' was very much an election issue. To the point where the opposition was accused of a 'MediScare' campaign. We all know, here, that the right wing wants to privatize healthcare, and monetize it and make it brokenly American. Where capitalism and healthcare mix so well.

They had to deny it. Nobody wants that at all, it's electoral poison.

We're so used to it now. If you need a vaccine or you have a javelin in your chest, the government will cover whatever you can't pay. You can't roll that back and win an election.
posted by adept256 at 4:46 AM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


We're so used to it now. If you need a vaccine or you have a javelin in your chest, the government will cover whatever you can't pay. You can't roll that back and win an election.

The thing is, both sides know that here, that's why the Right was so anxious to smother Obamacare in the crib. Here's Bill Kristol back in 1993:

"Any Republican urge to negotiate a "least bad" compromise with the Democrats, and thereby gain momentary public credit for helping the president "do something" about health care, should also be resisted. Passage of the Clinton health care plan, in any form, would guarantee and likely make permanent an unprecedented federal intrusion into and disruption of the American economy--and the establishment of the largest federal entitlement program since Social Security. Its success would signal a rebirth of centralized welfare-state policy at the very moment we have begun rolling back that idea in other areas.
...
But the Clinton proposal is also a serious political threat to the Republican Party. Republicans must therefore clearly understand the political strategy implicit in the Clinton plan--and then adopt an aggressive and uncompromising counterstrategy designed to delegitimize the proposal and defeat its partisan purpose.
...
But the long-term political effects of a successful Clinton health care bill will be even worse--much worse. It will relegitimize middle-class dependence for "security" on government spending and regulation. It will revive the reputation of the party that spends and regulates, the Democrats, as the generous protector of middle-class interests. And it will at the same time strike a punishing blow against Republican claims to defend the middle class by restraining government."


It's also why they're having so much trouble killing it now, despite their best efforts.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:05 AM on November 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


Yes. This. Economists will tell you that a big thing holding back our economy is that the work force isn’t as mobile as it used to be. Workers used to migrate to where the jobs were, and that has become less common.

The thing about places like Johnstown is that the people who would or could move already have. The city has seen double digit percentage population losses every census for sixty years now. Anyone with ambition and skills moved to places like North Carolina thirty years ago.
posted by octothorpe at 5:09 AM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


We're so used to it now. If you need a vaccine or you have a javelin in your chest, the government will cover whatever you can't pay. You can't roll that back and win an election.

Fraser repealed it back in '81 and was wiped out at the '83 election at which point Medicare was brought in back in '84 by Hawke. It appears Republicans are learning this same lesson.
posted by Talez at 5:11 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Trump didn't take questions from press due to the Chinese requesting it. Previous presidents insisted that they be allowed to ask questions. Weak! Sad!
posted by PenDevil at 5:13 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


Even Robert Rubin, Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton (and thus a major Third Way-er), thinks we need a federal jobs program. He's anti-basic income, but hey, a leftward shift is a leftward shift.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:17 AM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


The Chinese leadership never take questions from the press. Even if they did the questions would be such curveballs as 'why are you so awesome?"
posted by adept256 at 5:19 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Xi and Trump are made for each other. Both are the totalitarian, history-terminating type. Trump must be admiring Xi's ambition of President for Life and his total grip on the Surveillance-Manipulation-Incarceration State, and Xi wants an army as large as Trump's.
posted by runcifex at 5:24 AM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Even Robert Rubin, Treasury Secretary under Bill Clinton (and thus a major Third Way-er), thinks we need a federal jobs program. He's anti-basic income, but hey, a leftward shift is a leftward shift.

An infrastructure WPA would kill two birds with one stone; employment of many low skill workers and repair of our ancient infrastructure. It would also allow for retraining of those low skill workers in more in demand skills (like welding).
posted by leotrotsky at 5:25 AM on November 9, 2017 [43 favorites]


I cannot tell you how many people showed up on a friend's Facebook post to not only lament the increased premiums, but that they have to pay it at all. They are often self employed small business owners. They want to go back to when they either didn't have to buy insurance or else when they were able to get the cheap disaster plan.

i certainly hope for the best for these people and their families... but in my experience it only takes one bad injury or illness within somebody's social set to reveal disaster plans as a sham, to make clear that the lack of any plan can be financial ruin, and to demonstrate just how important access to affordable care is.
posted by halation at 5:27 AM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


Can we please not use the small tag for large blocks of text? It can be very difficult to read.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:28 AM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


I can paraphrase it for you. The VOID was saying they only offer NULL, because if there was THING, people would know there is THING, and all they have is NULL.
posted by adept256 at 5:34 AM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


why couldn't Trump have tumbled repeatedly into the bunker
and then we could have an indictment tomorrow
what I'm saying is that every day should be a new gift of their humiliation and desperation
it's the holiday season approaching, after all
posted by angrycat at 5:49 AM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Among the winners was Chris Hurst, whose girlfriend was fatally shot on the air as she reported for a local Virginia television station. His opponent was backed by the NRA.

This is in an overwhelmingly white, mostly rural and suburban district in western VA. This is what results looked like in the last House of Delegates election in 2015. I wonder if the press is going to treat us to some interviews with pro-gun-control hunters in Appalachia? (Deer season starts next week, good time to get some photos to go with the article.)

The Washington Post did have a decent article about the campaign, though.
posted by nangar at 5:54 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


i bet if you paid $150/hr and guaranteed a 40 hr work week

What kind of magic utopia does that second condition imply.
posted by winna at 5:59 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is in an overwhelmingly white, mostly rural and suburban district in western VA. This is what results looked like in the last House of Delegates election in 2015. I wonder if the press is going to treat us to some interviews with pro-gun-control hunters in Appalachia? (Deer season starts next week, good time to get some photos to go with the article.)
I dunno. It is mostly rural and suburban, but the district is also home to Virginia Tech, which both means that there's a big population of people who aren't your typical rural/ suburban white voters and that Hurst's story and issues might resonate there even more than they would elsewhere. And as the Washington Post article points out, the district went for Hillary in 2016, although by a tiny margin.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:07 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


> It is mostly rural and suburban, but the district is also home to Virginia Tech...Hurst's story and issues might resonate there even more than they would elsewhere.

Yeah, the districts around Blacksburg are drawn pretty carefully to avoid getting too many Democrats in one district. I'd be interested to see a precinct-by-precinct break-down of the results from this election, but VPAP doesn't have them up yet.
posted by nangar at 6:20 AM on November 9, 2017


I can paraphrase it for you. The VOID was saying they only offer NULL, because if there was THING, people would know there is THING, and all they have is NULL.

/scribbles down THE NULL as potential horror film title.
posted by Artw at 6:24 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


*sniff* I wish we had 99 more Elizabeth Warrens. And 400ish more in the house.
posted by yoga at 6:40 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


Oh good grief. Was forced to google the Watanabe reference, and was reminded of his role in Sixteen Candles. People of the future please know that that shit did not play well to some audiences even then. Holy moly that’s awful.
posted by notyou at 7:13 AM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]




Oh good grief. Was forced to google the Watanabe reference, and was reminded of his role in Sixteen Candles. People of the future please know that that shit did not play well to some audiences even then. Holy moly that’s awful.

At least that particular humiliating stereotype was played by an actor of actual Asian descent, and not Mickey Rooney.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:15 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


Trump's 2016 Victory Speech, (lightly) Annotated 1 Year Later (NPR)

Nothing new for folks in these threads, but a reminder that 1) Trump didn't write that speech alone (Google books preview of Devil's Bargain, which also notes that he had neither an acceptance or concession speech written, due in part to superstitions), and 2) one of the only things that Trump can get positive marks for is not killing the Veterans Affairs efforts that have been in the works for years, and acting quickly but taking all the credit, because Trump's gonna Trump).

For another look back, The Guardian also annotated Trump's victory speech, but soon after he gave it, so we don't have the benefit of time to judge Trump's many failed promises. For that, here's Politifact's Trump-o-meter, where a year after his win, he's only at 7.9% accomplished on his varied and various goals, though 41.6% are still "in the works," and only 3 promises have been broken to date (labeling China a currency manipulator, suing his accusers of sexual misconduct, and releasing his tax returns after an audit is completed). I imagine we'll get #3 through other means :)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:32 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


They want to be able to get liability only with a 5000 deductible for $50 a month.

Because bad things only happen to bad people. They don't need real insurance because they are good people, and bad things never happen to good people. This is also why they should not be required to help people who do get sick or injured -- those people probably deserved it. Must've been doing something unhealthy or immoral, or why else did they get sick?

Just World Fallacy strikes again.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:37 AM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Oh good grief. Was forced to google the Watanabe reference, and was reminded of his role in Sixteen Candles. People of the future please know that that shit did not play well to some audiences even then. Holy moly that’s awful.

Asian-American graphic novelist Adrian Tomine agrees.
posted by Gelatin at 7:39 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Because bad things only happen to bad people. They don't need real insurance because they are good people, and bad things never happen to good people. This is also why they should not be required to help people who do get sick or injured -- those people probably deserved it.

More and more I wish humanity could be purged of the just world fallacy.
posted by Gelatin at 7:43 AM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Stunning video at tweet:

Sheldon Whitehouse
@SenWhitehouse
I don’t even know where to begin with @realdonaldtrump’s CEQ nominee Kathleen Hartnett White—she outright rejects basic science.

I'm really starting to wonder about Newton's Law of Gravity. Not many people know this, but Isaac Newton was from England, and like, they have totally different laws there.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:43 AM on November 9, 2017 [42 favorites]


Potential Trump Adviser Suggests Climate Change Regulations Are Communist Conspiracy (Mose Buchele of member station KUT for NPR, Nov. 8, 2017)
President Trump has tapped a former Texas regulator to be his senior adviser on environmental policy. Like a string of other controversial picks, she questions the science behind climate change.
...
MOSE BUCHELE, BYLINE: If appointed to the president's Council on Environmental Quality, Kathleen Hartnett-White would coordinate environmental policy across the administration. But since her nomination, some controversial statements she's made have been circulating on YouTube, like this one of her promoting her recent book "Fueling Freedom."

(SOUNDBITE OF YOUTUBE VIDEO)

KATHLEEN HARTNETT-WHITE: The book has all kinds of examples of the really beneficial impacts of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere.

BUCHELE: CO2, of course, is a major contributor to global warming, but Hartnett-White suggested that climate regulation is a conspiracy pushed by communists. She's called renewable energy unreliable and parasitic. And she really, really likes fossil fuels.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

HARTNETT-WHITE: Fossil fuels are the remains of life - plant and animal life.

BUCHELE: Here she is in an interview with a Christian television station in Oregon last year.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

HARTNETT-WHITE: They come back, through burning them, to amplify our lives - to do work that we otherwise would have to do ourself.

BUCHELE: In fact, she's even said fossil fuels helped lead to the end of slavery, and she's called CO2 the gas of life.

JIM MARSTON: You know, she's not a scientist.

BUCHELE: Jim Marston directs the Environmental Defense Fund in Texas. In 30 years there, he's butted heads with a lot of officials. He says Hartnett-White stands out for her unusual opposition to regulations.

MARSTON: And I say unusual - no matter what the standard was, whether it's with regard to smog or mercury or global warming, she was against it.
This comes as Syria Joins Paris Climate Accord, Leaving Only U.S. Opposed (Lisa Friedman for New York Times, Nov. 7, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:44 AM on November 9, 2017 [37 favorites]


Nick Miroff: White House chief of staff tried to pressure acting DHS secretary to expel thousands of Hondurans, officials say
On Monday, as the Department of Homeland Security prepared to extend the residency permits of tens of thousands of Honduran immigrants living in the United States, White House Chief of Staff John F. Kelly called Acting Secretary Elaine Duke to pressure her to expel them, according to current and former administration officials.

Duke refused to reverse her decision and was angered by what she felt was a politically driven intrusion by Kelly and Tom Bossert, the White House homeland security adviser, who also called her about the matter, according to officials with knowledge of Monday’s events, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.
[...]
Kelly made an urgent call from Japan, where he was traveling with President Trump. He was “irritated,” administration officials said, and didn’t want his handpicked nominee for DHS Secretary, Kirstjen M. Nielsen, to face potentially uncomfortable questions about TPS during her confirmation hearing.

“He was persistent, telling her he didn’t want to kick the can down the road, and that it could hurt [Nielsen’s] nomination,” said one administration official.

Duke held her ground, the official said. “She was angry. To get a call like that from Asia, after she’d already made the decision, was a slap in the face.”

“They put massive pressure on her,” said another former administration official with knowledge of the call.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:48 AM on November 9, 2017 [37 favorites]


The Johnstown Paradox:

Many people are freaking out over Trump's agenda -- and rightfully so -- because it is actively trying to take valuable things away from them. Healthcare, voting rights, education, jobs, money, civil rights, humanity. Not small things. They made progress on these fronts under Obama and now they're being targeted actively.

The Johnstownites are used to being without. Times have been tough there for a while. They have been hearing Mirror Universe Media drumbeats for decades howling that prosperity is zero-sum, and THEY are stealing it from Good White Americans and handing it to Lazy Druggie Urban Welfare Queen Thugs and that's why their lives are tough. Pay no attention to the oligarchs behind the curtain, it's the liberals' and the nonwhites' fault.

Now, Trump, he campaigned on a remarkably open message of I Want To Put White Men Back On Top. That resonated on many levels. It jived with decades of talk radio programming and Facebook walls and FWD:s. It was blatant pandering to people who really enjoyed being pandered to. And it, arguably, worked.

So why do they not hate Trump for not delivering? A couple of reasons. One is that their situation - being screwed over - is really not all that different now from their perspective. They aren't feeling targeted. Instead, Trump is still saying what they want to hear: We want Obamacare dead. We want tax cuts. We want Muslims gone. We want government drowned. We want the pecking order restored and we want noisy libs and gays and eggheads and minorities to know their places. We want our kind in charge.

The other is that there is always someone else to blame. To them, Trump isn't to blame for legislative failures; he's right there on teevee calling for "reforms" all the time. But Congress just won't put their big boy pants on and make them happen through sheer force of will. That was the message on my foray through wingnut radio yesterday: Trump cannot fail because his agenda is Reagan's agenda. He has been failed by McCain and McConnell and Ryan and squishy RINOs who don't have the guts to obey their President and enact his agenda and (miracle happens here) and then everything will be perfect and be 1951 again.
posted by delfin at 7:50 AM on November 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


filthy light thief: CMA Awards Open With Serious Tribute – Then Hilarious Trump Parodies by Brad Paisley and Carrie Underwood
... but while they mocked the guidelines to stay away from political topics, they adhered to the guidelines with regards to not commenting on gun regulations.

The mockery of the guidelines came after journalists were initially warned that asking country music stars such questions could lead to such journalists having their credentials reviewed and potentially revoked via security escort. Under scrutinity, the Country Music Assn. withdrew its heavily restrictive media guidelines
Several country artists including Brad Paisley, Maren Morris and Margo Price quickly registered their opposition to the CMA’s edict that reporters avoid bringing up the Las Vegas mass shooting during a country concert, gun control or musicians’ political beliefs while interviewing those arriving for the ceremony in Nashville on Wednesday, Nov. 8.

“CMA apologizes for the recently distributed restrictions in the CMA Awards media guidelines, which have since been lifted,” the organization said in a statement issued Friday morning. “The sentiment was not to infringe and was created with the best of intentions to honor and celebrate country music.”
...
Early Friday, singer-songwriter and guitarist Paisley, who again will co-host the show with Carrie Underwood, tweeted, “I'm sure the CMA will do the right thing and rescind these ridiculous and unfair press guidelines. In 3...2....1.....”
Why Country Stars Need to Sound Off on Gun Control at the CMA Awards (Joseph Hudak for Rolling Stone, Nov. 8, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:57 AM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


GOP Congressman Goodlatte will not seek reelection.
posted by StrawberryPie at 8:15 AM on November 9, 2017 [36 favorites]


Imagine if all those journalists interviewing bigoted trump voters yet again instead were interviewing democratic voters who didn’t show up in 2016. That had at least as much impact as the racists showing up, likely more.
posted by Celsius1414 at 8:28 AM on November 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


In today's saying-the-quiet-part-loud news:

Gary Cohn explains the GOP tax plan: “The most excited group out there are big CEOs”

(There's also this, though I can't find any other source or context for it. Lindsey Graham says “the financial contributions will stop” if tax reform fails.)
posted by marshmallow peep at 8:29 AM on November 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


Is it just me or is it starting to feel like the rats are feeling the sinking ship?
posted by Tevin at 8:30 AM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Oh great - a 'cry wolf' attack
posted by lalochezia at 8:31 AM on November 9, 2017


Is anyone remarking upon the resignations as unusual or is it just sort of getting lost in the mix?
posted by Artw at 8:33 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


there's a press conference about the tax bill and the granny-starver is kinda crashing and burning -- he said he "felt like an idiot" because he forgot to put his little notecard in his jacket pocket and someone asked him a question that he didn't have the properly massaged number to mind for

Embarrassing, really.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:35 AM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


General Silveria said Tuesday that he stood by the underlying message of his speech, which invoked some of the nation’s most divisive racial events.

“Regardless of the circumstances under which those words were written, they were written, and that deserved to be addressed,” he told The Colorado Springs Gazette, referring to the slurs. “You can never overemphasize the need for a culture of dignity and respect — and those who don’t understand those concepts, aren’t welcome here.”


This guy is my hero of the day.
posted by phearlez at 8:36 AM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


To them, Trump isn't to blame for legislative failures; he's right there on teevee calling for 'reforms' all the time.

No. "Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."
posted by kirkaracha at 8:37 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is it just me or is it starting to feel like the rats are feeling the sinking ship?

Unfortunately 90% of the ship's rats have developed gills and fins and are also rat-Nazis.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:41 AM on November 9, 2017 [36 favorites]


> (There's also this, though I can't find any other source or context for it. Lindsey Graham says “the financial contributions will stop” if tax reform fails.)

Graham has been pretty vocal that incumbents are going to lose their Koch-Mercer money if they don't get some legislation through. Personally, I think that big sugar daddy money dries up permanently, not just for the next cycle. The Kochs will decide that bankrolling campaigns is not cost effective, and re-double their efforts at buying university chairs - or something else vile along those lines.
posted by klarck at 8:45 AM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


> Lindsey Graham says “the financial contributions will stop” if tax reform fails.

I don't get it. Why would a sitting Senator - one of the 101 most powerful politicians in the country - be so utterly craven? Does the Koch/Mercer money really matter that much? Grow a fucking backbone, you fucking jellyfish, and try doing the right thing for the people and the country you claim to love, instead of the thing that ensures the money spigot stays open.

Sometimes I just... Argh.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:58 AM on November 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


Just in case you'd given Twitter the benefit of the doubt for one goddamned second.

Ben Collins, Daily Beast: Twitter Verifies Charlottesville Rally Boss Jason Kessler, Who Called Slain Protester’s Death ‘Payback Time’

Kessler’s new verified status comes just 26 days after CEO Jack Dorsey again recommitted to eliminating “hate symbols, violent groups, and tweets that glorifies violence” from its platform.

Kessler previously deleted his Twitter account in August after he tweeted that Heather Heyer, the woman who was killed protesting the white nationalist rally he created, “was a fat, disgusting Communist” and that her death “was payback time."

posted by Rust Moranis at 9:03 AM on November 9, 2017 [49 favorites]


Personally, I think that big sugar daddy money dries up permanently, not just for the next cycle. The Kochs will decide that bankrolling campaigns is not cost effective, and re-double their efforts at buying university chairs - or something else vile along those lines.

The Kochs have enough money to diversify their pursuits, from a major study that confirmed global warming was due to humans (previously) and NPR (they don't own it though) to Americans for Prosperity and hundreds of other organizations receive support from Koch companies and/or the Koch foundations (no list of other organizations there, though). They have been developing their expansive and extensive network of supporters for decades, and I don't think they're going to back out of direct financial support in elections any time soon.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:05 AM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


I'm not saying you Tweetface people have stunningly and quickly destroyed democracy, America, an possibly the world, but

What's "verified" mean, Walter?
posted by petebest at 9:10 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


I don't get it. Why would a sitting Senator - one of the 101 most powerful politicians in the country - be so utterly craven?

Graham strikes me as the type of myopic mind who figures anything good for him is good for everyone. Obviously the world is better off if things work out for him. That means doing the thing that keeps his little life going fine. Political courage is a foreign concept to him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:12 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


> Because bad things only happen to bad people. They don't need real insurance because they are good people, and bad things never happen to good people. This is also why they should not be required to help people who do get sick or injured -- those people probably deserved it. Must've been doing something unhealthy or immoral, or why else did they get sick?

These people know the death rate is holding steady at 100%, right?
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:16 AM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


I think Senator Graham would be perfectly fine without the Koch/Mercer money as would many of the other Republican senators. What wouldn't be great if the Koch/Mercer money was targeted at setting up long term primary opposition to them. By all accounts, all members of Congress hate fundraising and probably would hate it even more if they had to actively raise money to repel a well funded opponent of the same party.
posted by mmascolino at 9:19 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Artw: "Is anyone remarking upon the resignations as unusual or is it just sort of getting lost in the mix?"

Eh, I think the people in the know are discussing it, I don't think it's made much splash in the larger media yet.

Goodlatte brings it to 23 GOP retirements (5 since Halloween), 10 Dem. Pace is well ahead of 2006 (Dem wave year).

Goodlatte's seat is safe - Romney 60-40, Trump 60-35, and Gillespie carried it 60-39 this week. He was personally awful, so it will likely be a push once his replacement is in.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:20 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


@dylanlscott (Vox)
Bill Cassidy just told reporters the Senate’s tax bill will NOT repeal the ACA’s individual mandate.
posted by chris24 at 9:43 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Caution of "some people are saying something online" but I'm seeing a good number of GOPers really flipping out over the possibility of the adoption tax credit being repealed.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:50 AM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


A thing that could also go in the #MeToo thread about Roy Moore molesting a 14-year-old girl in 1979.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:01 AM on November 9, 2017 [28 favorites]


I...I really thought my disgust for Roy Moore was already at its highest possible level already, yet here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 10:04 AM on November 9, 2017 [57 favorites]


The Post found several allegations from the late '70s. I'll be *really* curious to see if women come forward with more-recent accusations of Moore behaving inappropriately with very young women and girls.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:07 AM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


He is of course trying to spin this story in his favour at Breitbart.
posted by Artw at 10:09 AM on November 9, 2017


(Even they dropped Milo like a sack of shit, of course, but the rules are different for old straight guys)
posted by Artw at 10:10 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]




That article is horrifying, in case anybody is curious and doesn't want to get into the weeds. These poor women. One describes not wanting to come forward because of her divorces and financial history, and it's painful to read. I'm glad their stories are coming out but I hope there is some plan to protect them from harassment.
posted by angrycat at 10:15 AM on November 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


Remember when Republicans attacked Clinton just for representing an alleged child predator?
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:16 AM on November 9, 2017 [23 favorites]


The Post found several allegations from the late '70s. I'll be *really* curious to see if women come forward with more-recent accusations of Moore behaving inappropriately with very young women and girls.

Daniel Dale: @ddale8 Wow. Roy Moore is trying to use Breitbart to get ahead of what he says is a coming WaPo story about him having improper relations with underage girls: [Breitbart link removed]
posted by anastasiav at 10:17 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]




Gross as fuck: The Breitbart defense has the 34 year old Moore "respectfully" dating teenagers and reading them poetry.
posted by Artw at 10:18 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


I don't even...
Corfman, 53, who works as a customer service representative at a payday loan business, says she has voted for Republicans in the past three presidential elections, including for Donald Trump in 2016. She says she thought of confronting Moore personally for years, and almost came forward publicly during his first campaign for state Supreme Court in 2000, but decided against it. Her two children were still in school then and she worried about how it would affect them. She also was concerned that her background — three divorces and a messy financial history — might undermine her credibility.
It's incredibly brave of her to come forward, and maybe this detail will make it harder for a few people to ignore her story, but. I just...wow. Faces voting for leopards eating faces and such.
posted by zachlipton at 10:18 AM on November 9, 2017 [41 favorites]


I guess we all know what the P stands for in GOP.
posted by Artw at 10:19 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Remember when Republicans attacked Clinton just for representing an alleged child predator?

IOKIYAR. There was a really good case being made of Donald J. Trump raping a 13 year old girl in 1994 going on in Federal Court, but right round the election the plaintiff withdrew her case.

Unlike Clinton's settlement with Paula Jones, this one didn't go far enough to any settlement to be reported. None of that seems to have made any Trump Supporter hesitate. I'm going to go throw-up my lunch now.
posted by mikelieman at 10:19 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


[Moore] is of course trying to spin this story in his favour at Breitbart.

I wish I it wouldn't even have occured to me that this spinning might be openly bragging about it to a perceived friendly audience.
posted by Gelatin at 10:20 AM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


I feel so broken by this year because I feel almost certain this Moore story won't make a goddamn bit of difference with regard to GOP endorsements or people who would have voted for him in the first place. (Of course, I would LOVE to be proved wrong and take a leeetle bit of heart from Weinstein & Spacey's downfalls.)
posted by marshmallow peep at 10:20 AM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


right round the election the plaintiff withdrew her case.

Specifically, withdrew her case because she was getting death threats.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 10:21 AM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


I feel like focusing on the idea that Republican voters will forgive anything up to and including child rape misses what might be the big impact this will have on the race -- in an off-year election, on an irregular election day, the already-energized Democratic Party can get their base out with the message "keep a child molester out of the Senate".

That'll help GOTV, for damn sure.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:22 AM on November 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


I wouldn't be surprised if more victims come forward, because, in underage abuse cases, there is never just one victim and/or one time. Look at Dennis Hastert - just for starters.

Right-wing types seem obsessed with "pedos" to the point of where I surmise a lot of projection going on. The Comet Ping Pong conspiracy theory was so frothing-at-the-mouth. These people need to read the Bible they love so much and consider the planks in their own eyes.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:22 AM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


I just got back from a lunch-time tax protest at my state representative's home office. There was one staffer in the building who allegedly had not read the tax bill and was unable to answer any and all questions about it. He claimed his job was "constituent affairs" and did not know if anybody would ever be on hand to answer our questions.

This is a different tack from nine months ago when we had a similar event and were greeted by a lead staffer who explained our reps positions on the issues and was able to dialogue with us. They arrogantly assumed that by answering our questions and smiling we would go away.

I think they've realized we're not going away and aren't even going to bother to smile and answer questions.
posted by Tevin at 10:23 AM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Daniel Dale: @ddale8 Wow. Roy Moore is trying to use Breitbart to get ahead of what he says is a coming WaPo story about him having improper relations with underage girls: [Breitbart link removed]

Brings to mind the saying "A hit dog always hollers." Roy Moore is the dog who just got hit and he's hollering to Breitbart.
posted by azpenguin at 10:23 AM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


@willrahn: Breitbart: Maybe Roy Moore dated kids but if he did he was romantic and read them poetry

This disgusting revelation seems like the last, best hope for evangelicals to finally say "enough is enough" and refuse to support a member on their tribe based on reprehensible behavior.

Then again, they voted in droves for Trump, so I can't say I'm confident. If not, though, I hope the media once and for all quits pretending evangelicals represent a sincere religious viewpoint.
posted by Gelatin at 10:24 AM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


In more how-low-can-they-go news: Program that pairs service dogs with veterans booted from Fort Belvoir and Walter Reed
The Warrior Canine Connection, a program that uses an army of volunteer puppy raisers, dog trainers and veterans to prepare service dogs for wounded veterans and their families, has been partnering with military facilities in the D.C. region since 2009.

But suddenly — and without explanation — that came to a stop, says Warrior Canine Connection Executive Director Rick Yount.

He said his trainers and puppy raisers at Fort Belvoir and at two locations on the campus of the Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, were told on Oct. 27th to vacate their offices that afternoon.

“At two o’clock in the afternoon, I received a phone call saying there was a stop work order. There was no explanation whatsoever as to why that was the decision,” Yount said.

Asked if there had been an issue with the program, problems with staff or an incident at either of the military sites, Yount said he hasn’t heard anything.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:24 AM on November 9, 2017 [39 favorites]


In the current Wisconsin Governors race, the news made a big deal because a potential candidate once sent a letter of recommendation for someone who turned out to be a sex offender. Sadly, I think the Moore news won't get nearly as much play.
posted by drezdn at 10:26 AM on November 9, 2017


Right-wing types seem obsessed with "pedos" to the point of where I surmise a lot of projection going on.

Kind of like how the majority of GOP types frothing at the mouth over Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky were later found to have previously conducted extramarital affairs of their own.

(And now the product of one of those affairs, Adam Laxalt, is running for governor of Nevada. As a Republican.)
posted by elsietheeel at 10:27 AM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Breitbart: Roy Moore participated in the Yellow King swampcult, showing a real respect for the poetry of Robert W. Chambers
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:27 AM on November 9, 2017 [18 favorites]


One describes not wanting to come forward because of her divorces and financial history, and it's painful to read.

I just read that part. She's internalized that she's not a perfect victim and so her story would automatically be discredited. What a perfectly fucked up way to silence victims.

I wouldn't be surprised if more victims come forward, because, in underage abuse cases, there is never just one victim and/or one time.
According to colleagues and others who knew him at the time, Moore was rarely seen socializing outside work. He spent one season coaching the Gallant Girls, a softball team that his teenaged sister had joined, said several women who played on the team. He spent time working out at the Gadsden YMCA, according to people who encountered him there. And he often walked, usually alone, around the newly opened Gadsden Mall — 6 feet tall and well-dressed in slacks and a button-down shirt, say several women who worked there at the time.
Volunteering to coach a girls' softball team and cruising the mall? If more victims don't come forward, I would guess it's because they're not willing to risk their lives to do it -- understandably so.
posted by gladly at 10:28 AM on November 9, 2017 [39 favorites]


Christ, this Moore thing. He was already an objectively terrible judge and presumably on his way to being an objectively terrible legislator, but... holy shit.

How have we ended up here, in 2017 America, where the politicians that represent fully half of the country are this openly despicable? I mean, there's partisan lines, and then there... this, whatever the fuck happened to the Republican party such that their champions are pedophiles and sexual assaulters and liars and racists and bigots and swindlers. They run more than half the country, and they're not just wrong on every issue that matters, they've increasingly been revealed to be genuinely terrible human beings. How did we allow this to happen?
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:28 AM on November 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


Here's a thing you can do right now even if you're not in Alabama. Check this list of reps who have endorsed Moore. If yours is on it, call their office and demand an explanation. Demand they retract their endorsement.
posted by zachlipton at 10:28 AM on November 9, 2017 [52 favorites]


Kind of like how the majority of GOP types frothing at the mouth over Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky were later found to have previously conducted extramarital affairs of their own.

Or abused kids on the wrestling team they coached.
posted by drezdn at 10:28 AM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


Ugh god Roy Moore is exactly this creepy guy I went to high school with. Everyone knows who 'that guy' is. EEWWWWW
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:30 AM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


To them, Trump isn't to blame for legislative failures; he's right there on teevee calling for 'reforms' all the time.

No. "Nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it."


Was going to post exactly the same thing, kirkaracha. Anybody who knows the system just a little bit—not even close to "better than anybody else"—would know the hurdles you have to overcome among the other people in the mix. And they sure as hell wouldn't claim that they alone could fix the system.

Come to think of it, if any one person ever had the thought that they maybe knew the system better than anybody else, they'd know how utterly fucking idiotic "the system" would view such a claim, and wouldn't even make it in private, let alone as a promise from the stage at their party's national convention. To the mouth-breathers, of course, that's just the kind of promise a president could and should make, so they and Trump are made for each other in that regard.
posted by Rykey at 10:31 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


A bunch of the public defense of More from conservatives will be about how he's a Christian and has been saved and therefore has a clean slate. Of course Democrats are never "real" Christians so their scandals count forever. But plenty of right wing evangelicals will just plain dismiss this as a problem God has already solved.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:31 AM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


Kind of like how the majority of GOP types frothing at the mouth over Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky were later found to have previously conducted extramarital affairs of their own.

Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House from '99 to '07, was a pedophile, and he was in office during the Bush years, Republicans' most holier-than-thou period. It's weird that he has slipped off the radar so completely as people rightly horrified by Trump wax nostalgic for the kinder, gentler conservatism of Abu Ghraib and Bagram.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:33 AM on November 9, 2017 [23 favorites]


elsietheeel: "(And now the product of one of those affairs, Adam Laxalt, is running for governor of Nevada. As a Republican.)"

Laxalt is a terrible person in terms of his politics, but let's not tar him for something his parents did before he was born. It's not his fault he's the product of adultery.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:34 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


If Democrats don’t run “_____ endorsed child molester Roy Moore” ads against every Republican Senator next year its political malpractice. Even if he still wins Alabama, other states are not Alabama.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:34 AM on November 9, 2017 [49 favorites]


A bunch of the public defense of More from conservatives will be about how he's a Christian and has been saved and therefore has a clean slate. Of course Democrats are never "real" Christians so their scandals count forever. But plenty of right wing evangelicals will just plain dismiss this as a problem God has already solved.

Not sure if a reporter could prove it, but I'd be willing to bet that if he was doing stuff like this in his mid-thirties, he was doing it more recently too.
posted by drezdn at 10:34 AM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Hastert got out of prison a couple of months ago and I'm actually kind of surprised he hasn't turned up on the Fox News circuit yet.
posted by theodolite at 10:35 AM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Yet again, an extreme rightwing evangelical theocrat turns out to be a sexual harasser/molester/rapist. Almost like they cling to their heinous beliefs and try to push them on others to compensate/cover for something.
posted by chris24 at 10:35 AM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


This disgusting revelation seems like the last, best hope for evangelicals to finally say "enough is enough" and refuse to support a member on their tribe based on reprehensible behavior.

Oh you sweet summer child.

They will support anything. Literally anything.
posted by Justinian at 10:36 AM on November 9, 2017 [32 favorites]


Oh you sweet summer child.

I did say I wasn't confident.

The truth is I really hope the so-called "liberal media" finally, finally notices a pattern and stops equating self-righteousness with righteousness, and stops presuming Republicans at all represent christians or what christianity is supposed to be.

For the record, I am not confident of that either.
posted by Gelatin at 10:42 AM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Maybe he's so keen on the Ten Commandments because there's nothing in there about molesting teenagers
posted by theodolite at 10:46 AM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Wanna bet we find out that he's coveted his neighbor's ox?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:52 AM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm not faulting him for the circumstances of his birth, but rather the mind-boggling fact that he's siding with the GOP and their despicable politics despite the fact that his father, Senator Peter Domenici, denied his existence until 2013 (and Domenici was 55 when he had the affair with 24 year old Michelle Laxalt, the daughter of his GOP colleague, Senator Paul Laxalt).
posted by elsietheeel at 10:53 AM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


It's true, once the neighbor marries them they're off limits but teenage girls are totally fair game until then. Hell he might even consider his behavior angelic in light of Genesis 19. Yay Old Testament!
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 10:56 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


The most striking mini-details for me were the coaching his teenage sister's softball team, and also the part about the other, slightly older girls: "Around the same time that Deason says she met Moore at the jewelry counter, Wendy Miller says that Moore approached her at the mall". He wasn't just some gross smitten molester, he was trying to con multiple girls at once. There's no way he stopped at four girls and he should be in jail.
posted by DynamiteToast at 10:57 AM on November 9, 2017 [19 favorites]


I'd be willing to bet that if he was doing stuff like this in his mid-thirties, he was doing it more recently too.

I think that what this shows is a /particular/ form of super disgusting conduct. I think he was looking for a fucking /child bride/, someone he could influence and dominate and who would never ever be anything other than he had taught her. Alabama /still/ lets you get married at 16. And I think that’s why people are going to forgive it.

Fuck this guy so much, and the doctrine of “blank slate” wives.
posted by corb at 10:57 AM on November 9, 2017 [36 favorites]


Even if you wanted to get knee-deep in the muck and take some sort of defensive position about absolute numbers oh 17 is almost 18 in some cultures blah blah blah blah - which, let me be clear, I am not - there's something super telling about a man who is in his 30s and is interested in teenagers. Even if 31 year old Moore was confining himself to the 18 and up, that's a decade of adulthood between him and his intended paramour.

It's been a long time since I was in high school and dinosaurs roamed the earth, etc, but there were always some of the 16-18 crowd in school who were seeing dudes 21+. Without fail those dudes were real garbage, even compared to us teen boys. I didn't have the wisdom to see the real shape of it then, but looking back it's super obvious. They were controlling creeps and they'd identified that women that age were even less likely to resist their bullshit. No doubt they'd leverage any social stature they had to strongarm women into doing what they wanted. But they rarely had any status other than having managed to get a few years older. The fact that these girls had nothing resembling even the few years of "real life" experience they did wasn't a detriment to them, it was a feature.

So sing your bullshit lies and defenses of this rapist shit if you want, Brietbarts. Any one of us who hit 30 with something resembling respect for ourselves and others knows exactly what kind of person wants to spend time with high schoolers by that point in their lives, no matter how romantic and consensual you want to assert it was.
posted by phearlez at 10:59 AM on November 9, 2017 [58 favorites]


Some thoughts as a former i-team reporter, after two quick reads:

The Post pretty clearly did everything needed to avoid another Rolling Stone-style debacle (the UVa rape story). They investigated the hell out of Leigh Corfman, digging up her court records and talking to childhood acquaintances. They had two reporters and a researcher on this, which makes it way less likely that one sloppy or agenda-driven reporter is exaggerating stuff.

They got four people named and on the record, documenting that Moore repeatedly sought out much younger women. (Aside: Prowling the mall for teenagers, when you're 30-plus? Hitting on a girl in a Santa elf suit? Really?) Even if there was nothing illegal there (the underage drinking thing is a maybe), that backs up Corfman's case.

They did the work. That level of detail - you just don't get that without spending weeks on the ground. They said they interviewed 30 people and it shows.

They believe this is rock-solid, and I absolutely guarantee you it got cleared by a platoon of libel lawyers, because it just *screams* libel suit. (I had stories way less explosive than this that were lawyered for weeks.)

But even so -- as Omar taught us, you come at the king, you best not miss. I don't think they missed, but I don't think they took him down, either. They clearly are hoping this brings out more victims, and *that* is what will matter. So many times I've seen investigative stories make a huge splash, but the ripples fade quickly and people move on. It's often better to throw one small rock after another into the pond, rather than one big cinderblock.

Finally: The Post owes a huge debt to Rose McGowan and the many, many other women who broke through and convinced the public this is real and common. These sources don't go on the record otherwise. Oh, and this - poor Leigh Corfman. The GOP hit machine is going to come after her, viciously. This will be ugly beyond belief.
posted by martin q blank at 10:59 AM on November 9, 2017 [99 favorites]


Wanna bet we find out that he's coveted his neighbor's ox?

Only if the ox was under 18.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:00 AM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Saying that the women are liars is bearing false witness against his neighbors. Maybe that could be used to hammer Mr. 10 Commandments.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:01 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Moore: This just proves that I'm ready to join a Republican Congress. I was just practicing the Hastert Rule.
posted by delfin at 11:01 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


So far in the "if it's true then he should drop out" column: Flake, Murkowski (who is already working with Luther Strange on a write-in campaign like the one she successfully ran), and Perdue, none of whom AFAIK endorsed him.

In the "OMG I HAVE TO GO HIDE NOW" column: John Cornyn, an enthusiastic supporter of his.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:01 AM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


I'm waiting for 'he's not a chomo, he's an ephebophile' defense.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:03 AM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


NBC, Ken Dilanian and Jonathan Allen, Trump Bodyguard Testifies Russian Offered Trump Women, Was Turned Down
After a business meeting before the Miss Universe Pageant in 2013, a Russian participant offered to "send five women" to Donald Trump's hotel room in Moscow, his longtime bodyguard told Congress this week, according to three sources who were present for the interview.

Two of the sources said Keith Schiller viewed the offer as a joke, and immediately responded, "We don't do that type of stuff."

The two sources said Schiller's comments came in the context of him adamantly disputing the allegations made in the Trump dossier, written by a former British intelligence operative, which describes Trump having an encounter with prostitutes at the hotel during the pageant. Schiller he described his reaction to that story as being, "Oh my God, that's bull---," two sources said.

The conversation with the Russian about the five women took place after a morning meeting about the pageant in Moscow broke up, two sources said.

That night, two sources said, Schiller said he discussed the conversation with Trump as Trump was walking back to his hotel room, and Schiller said the two men laughed about it as Trump went to bed alone. Schiller testified that he stood outside Trump's hotel room for a time and then went to bed.

One source noted that Schiller testified he eventually left Trump's hotel room door and could not say for sure what happened during the remainder of the night.
posted by zachlipton at 11:03 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


Soon after, Moore quit and began his first political campaign for the county's circuit court judge position. He lost overwhelmingly, and left Alabama shortly thereafter, heading to Texas, where he says in his book that he trained as a kickboxer, and to Australia, where he says he lived on a ranch for a year wrangling cattle.
Does this seem like a rocking cover story to anyone else? I feel crazy typing that, but dude has a weird hole in his biography and he had a habit of preying on young girls. Does anyone know if that story has been verified?
posted by schadenfrau at 11:05 AM on November 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


I'm waiting for 'he's not a chomo, he's an ephebophile' defense.

Breitbart had an article out with this defense before the Post article.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:05 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


AL.com -- the web presence of the Birmingham News (largest newspaper in the state) is linking to the WaPo story on Roy Moore. Hopefully this is a sign that this scandal will have legs in Alabama.

I hope AL voters turn on Moore like they did on former governor Bentley after news of Bentley's extra-marital affair came to light.
posted by TwoToneRow at 11:06 AM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


What's a chomo?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 11:08 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, according to this article, his current wife is 14 years his junior.

So.
posted by teleri025 at 11:08 AM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


So far in the "if it's true then he should drop out" column

Add Sen Toomey (R-PA), apparently he can find his spine and comment every so often.
posted by gladly at 11:08 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


If the Moore allegations are accurate, I am saddened to an extent but register zero surprise deep down.

The vast majority of people in any religion, belief system or creed are generally well-adjusted people who may want others to join in those beliefs but are pretty chill about that. But, as with many other facets of life, run and hide from the fanatics. The most fervent Bible-thumping authoritarians I've ever known all had dark pasts and darker secrets.

Something about _really really needing_ Jesus's unconditional love and forgiveness to be true else they end up with a giant karmic bill to pay, so they overcompensate and volunteer themselves to be God's drill sergeants.
posted by delfin at 11:11 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


Adding to the "if it's true..." list: McConnell, Gardner (head of the NRSC), Toomey, and Shelby.

@costareports:
McConnell confidant Josh Holmes to WaPo re: Moore accusations. "If it's true, the Republican Party doesn't have any place for pedophiles and he should step down immediately," leave race. Puts blame on Bannon and others for enabling controversial candidates.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:11 AM on November 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


In the "OMG I HAVE TO GO HIDE NOW" column: John Cornyn, an enthusiastic supporter of his.

Another day, another time I'm embarrassed by one of my two wretched senators. I wonder what Thing 2 will have to say about all this, given that he has heartily endorsed Moore.
posted by marshmallow peep at 11:12 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


"If it's true, he should..." is a cop out. A flat "he should drop out" is what is required.
posted by Justinian at 11:12 AM on November 9, 2017 [23 favorites]


Does this seem like a rocking cover story to anyone else?

35 certainly seems like an odd age to pursue a kickboxing career, though any age seems like an odd one to pursue a kickboxing career. And I say that as a Gen-Xer well aware that it was for sure the sport of the future.
posted by phearlez at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2017 [28 favorites]


Emma Loop: Sen. John Cornyn says he finds the WaPo story on Moore "deeply disturbing." Asked if he'll withdraw his endorsement, Cornyn said: "I think it's -- the next steps are up to the governor and the people of Alabama."
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:13 AM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


35 certainly seems like an odd age to pursue a kickboxing career,

God, it seems like severely painful age to begin a career as a kickboxer. Ditto cattle ranching.

I hope there are WaPo reporters swarming Texas court records as we speak.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:15 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Honestly, I don't think that the allegations would be enough to sink Moore, but they may provide cover for Republicans who would really like to get rid of him for other reasons. They're already panicking about suburban moderates, and they really don't want to head into 2018 with the Democrats plausibly making that dude into their poster child.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:18 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


I'm pretty sure that "if it's true" is a fancy way of saying "if he's about to lose us this race that never should have been remotely in play."

To talk about taxes for a second, the manager's amendment for the House bill just dropped. Some adjustments (here's the summary and full text), including restoring the adoption credit, but this sounds insane: "Also buried the lede on the Johnson Amendment part: it applies to all 501(c)(3)s now, not just religious orgs"

Just straight up politicking by all non-profit groups. We'll be giving out tax deductions for political activity now. What the hell?
posted by zachlipton at 11:18 AM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


> Nick Miroff: White House chief of staff tried to pressure acting DHS secretary to expel thousands of Hondurans, officials say

John Kelly Is Chief of Staff to a Bigot. President* Trump's whole cabinet is complicit in undermining American values.
posted by homunculus at 11:18 AM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


"If it's true, he should..." is a cop out. A flat "he should drop out" is what is required.

Yup, it's to give him (and in case things go south, them) just enough plausible deniability.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:19 AM on November 9, 2017


I can't believe I'm typing this sentence but I will be pleasantly surprised if there is any number of women that are "enough" to overcome the "he said, she said, we'll never know I guess" factor. That's what "if it's true" means.

I can't believe I have to say I will be pleasantly surprised if there is any number of women coming forward that would be more compelling than one dude saying "women are liars though."
posted by nakedmolerats at 11:19 AM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


They believe this is rock-solid, and I absolutely guarantee you it got cleared by a platoon of libel lawyers, because it just *screams* libel suit.

Something the Post, the rest of the media, Democrats, and other people of goodwill should point out in the torrent of obfuscation and bad-faith arguing that's sure to follow. Truth is an absolute defense against libel, and Moore wouldn't dare sue if he believed the WaPo could prove its claims in a court of law.
posted by Gelatin at 11:22 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


35 certainly seems like an odd age to pursue a kickboxing career,

And in '79-80 was there a thriving kickboxing community where you could make a career of it? I mean JCVD's Kickboxer didn't come out til 1989.
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Apparently, if Moore withdraws (or is withdrawn by the GOP) from the race, any votes for him just won't count.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:25 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Any one of us who hit 30 with something resembling respect for ourselves and others knows exactly what kind of person wants to spend time with high schoolers by that point in their lives, no matter how romantic and consensual you want to assert it was.

Alright alright alright.
posted by adamgreenfield at 11:26 AM on November 9, 2017 [22 favorites]


I wonder if there will now be a third candidate in the AL election, which would be great news for John McCain Doug Jones.
It's too late to change the ballot. There could be a write-in campaign, which is doomed, or they could hope that Moore gets elected and then agrees to step down, which seems like a total longshot.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:26 AM on November 9, 2017


Just yesterday Alabama's Republican governor Kay Ivey refused to endorse Moore. Wonder if she knew the rumors or his other vileness was enough.
posted by chris24 at 11:26 AM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


Democrats plausibly making that dude into their poster child.

Poster child *molester*, you mean
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:26 AM on November 9, 2017 [16 favorites]


but this sounds insane: "Also buried the lede on the Johnson Amendment part: it applies to all 501(c)(3)s now, not just religious orgs"

Just straight up politicking by all non-profit groups. We'll be giving out tax deductions for political activity now. What the hell?


That's easy. For all the screaming about the IRS's so-called "vendetta" against Tea Party groups, all the agency was doing was its job in making sure tax-deductible groups weren't involved in politicking (and they targeted at least as many liberal groups). The Republicans know full well that a good percentage of its organizational, fundraising, and media apparatus is in violation of the law, and that if the IRS hadn't been intimidated into backing down by Republican attack dogs and a gullible media, they would have been in legal jeopardy back then.
posted by Gelatin at 11:28 AM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


The "if this is true" from Republicans is such a dodge. What proof are they waiting for? The Post found four women and got them on the record. Moore is never gonna confess, so are they hoping or a video or something? It's just their way of saying it doesn't actually matter to them.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:29 AM on November 9, 2017 [30 favorites]


They will support anything. Literally anything.

To be fair, the adage is that only a dead girl or a live boy will sink a Republican.
posted by Talez at 11:30 AM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Apparently, if Moore withdraws (or is withdrawn by the GOP) from the race, any votes for him just won't count.

Which means the Republicans are in the dilemma of supporting a sex criminal or forfeiting a key national office.

Again.
posted by Gelatin at 11:30 AM on November 9, 2017 [80 favorites]


I think this is true:
they may provide cover for Republicans who would really like to get rid of him for other reasons

If Moore was more of a team player and less of a shitburger to even people ostensibly on his own side, I think there'd be thundering silence coming from the very same people who right now are doing the "If it's true..." dance. The "older man/waaaay inappropriately young teenaged girl but not, like, a toddler" is such a grossly stalwart cultural thing, it's going to get brushed aside as no big deal by a lot of people. But if they can use being shocked! and appalled! to jettison a political millstone, they'll go with that.
posted by soren_lorensen at 11:31 AM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


@Jessica Taylor (NPR): "Alabama elex spox John Bennett just told me that if the GOP withdraws their nomination of Moore, and notifies their office, he will remain on ballot but even if he gets most votes, won't be certified as winner b/c party has withdrawn nomination."

WHAT?!

Hang on, I....they....it.....seriously, what?

So the state's position is that it's too late to remove him from the ballot but if the majority of voters picks him the state will straight up shred the election result on the Republican party's say-so? They can do that? Because that's an unsettling precedent, and also today is bonkers.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:32 AM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


For all the screaming about the IRS's so-called "vendetta" against Tea Party groups

Also remember, only 15% of those groups investigated were even conservative. The overwhelming majority were liberal groups.
In total, TIGTA identified 111 left-wing groups and 19 right-wing groups. (It’s unclear how the “healthcare” category broke out between left and right.)

Note that this audit is not based on miscellaneous PowerPoint presentations or emails. It’s based on actual cases that might have been referred for further investigation. Of those, only 15 percent were conservative groups. That’s it. The vast majority were liberal groups.
posted by chris24 at 11:32 AM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


I don't at all buy that votes for Moore won't count if the party withdraws nomination. I strongly suspect courts would find that problematic and would confirm him as the winner if he got the most votes.
posted by Justinian at 11:34 AM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


So the state's position is that it's too late to remove him from the ballot but if the majority of voters picks him the state will straight up shred the election result on the Republican party's say-so? They can do that? Because that's an unsettling precedent, and also today is bonkers.

yeah exactly. Their position is, imo, bullshit.
posted by Justinian at 11:34 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Democracy Dies in Darkness

WaPo showing they have some mighty strong flashlights of late. Folks, support investigative journalism.
posted by gwint at 11:35 AM on November 9, 2017 [38 favorites]


It's too late to change the ballot.

This is bullshit. I’m so sick of this “we have to keep a monster, the ballot is already printed!” Like some union shop wouldn’t be fucking thrilled to make overtime kicking this asshole off.
posted by corb at 11:37 AM on November 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


@jbarro
New Jersey law prohibited Torricelli being replaced so late but a judge allowed it anyway in 2002.
posted by chris24 at 11:37 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


if the GOP withdraws their nomination of Moore, and notifies their office, he will remain on ballot but even if he gets most votes, won't be certified as winner b/c party has withdrawn nomination.

If the votes have already been cast and he turns out to be the winner, how could he not be seated? The 17th Amendment specifies that Senators are elected by the people. Not by parties.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 11:41 AM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


By the way, just in case anybody thinks that what Roy Moore did was only morally shitty, rather than full-out illegal, here's what the TFA says:
The legal age of consent in Alabama, then and now, is 16. Under Alabama law in 1979, and today, a person who is at least 19 years old who has sexual contact with someone between 12 and 16 years old has committed sexual abuse in the second degree. Sexual contact is defined as touching of sexual or intimate parts. The crime is a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail.

The law then and now also includes a section on enticing a child younger than 16 to enter a home with the purpose of proposing sexual intercourse or fondling of sexual and genital parts. That is a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison.

In Alabama, the statute of limitations for bringing felony charges involving sexual abuse of a minor in 1979 would have run out three years later, and the time frame for filing a civil complaint would have ended when the alleged victim turned 21, according to Child USA, a nonprofit research and advocacy group at the University of Pennsylvania.
Stephanie McCrummen, Beth Reinhard and Alice Crites, laying it down.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:42 AM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


I would expect that ballot rules in any state that used to be on the Voting Rights Act pre-clearance list would have been litigated pretty thoroughly a long time ago.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 11:43 AM on November 9, 2017


Stephanie McCrummen, Beth Reinhard and Alice Crites, laying it down.

No kidding! Also from their WaPo piece:

Corfman described her story consistently in six interviews with The Post. The Post confirmed that her mother attended a hearing at the courthouse in February 1979 through divorce records. Moore’s office was down the hall from the courtroom.

Neither Corfman nor any of the other women sought out The Post. While reporting a story in Alabama about supporters of Moore’s Senate campaign, a Post reporter heard that Moore allegedly had sought relationships with teenage girls. Over the ensuing three weeks, two Post reporters contacted and interviewed the four women. All were initially reluctant to speak publicly but chose to do so after multiple interviews, saying they thought it was important for people to know about their interactions with Moore. The women say they don’t know one another.

“I have prayed over this,” Corfman says, explaining why she decided to tell her story now. “All I know is that I can’t sit back and let this continue, let him continue without the mask being removed.”

This account is based on interviews with more than 30 people who said they knew Moore between 1977 and 1982, when he served as an assistant district attorney for Etowah County in northern Alabama, where he grew up.

posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:48 AM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


Sen McCain with the first lack of an "if true" I've seen from a Republican:
The allegations against Roy Moore are deeply disturbing and disqualifying. He should immediately step aside and allow the people of Alabama to elect a candidate they can be proud of.
posted by DynamiteToast at 11:49 AM on November 9, 2017 [73 favorites]


If you missed this comment above:

Anthony Adragna tweet: @lisamurkowski says she’s spoken to @SenatorStrange about running a write-in campaign. #ALsen

Remember that Murkowski was elected to the Senate by a write-in campaign across Alaska, but she had near-100% name recognition. If Strange runs a serious write in campaign - aside from all the "it's a Strange campaign season" puns - it'll split enough of the vote to ensure a Doug Jones victory. Which, well, I'll take that any day over the alternatives.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:49 AM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


John McCain's statement.

Note the lack of "If these allegations are true." I guess he really doesn't have any more fucks to give. Too bad the John McCain we've seen this year wasn't the John McCain of the last 30 years.
posted by Justinian at 11:50 AM on November 9, 2017 [24 favorites]


Eh, it doesn't harm him in any way politically, which is the main prerequisite for Sen. McCain to do the right thing.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:51 AM on November 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


Laughed.

@AliceOllstein
I chased Ivanka down a Senate hallway to try to get a comment on Roy Moore. She laughed and said she’d been in meetings all day and didn’t know enough to weigh in.
posted by chris24 at 11:52 AM on November 9, 2017 [40 favorites]


Re Texas senators supporting Moore, you know, I've joked about starting a PAC, but seriously y'all, I'm going to price out what it costs to buy billboards on the biggest commuter highway paths, and just put something like Cruz and Cornyn, their brand of Christianity means that old men should be allowed to rape your daughters.

Because make no mistake, no matter how grown up a 14 year-old feels, she is not prepared to deal with the manipulation a man twice her age can bring.

When I was about that age, I had a 28 year old trying hard to seduce me. When my parents heard about it, as the story is told, my mother went to his apartment and said "I'm a chef. I wield a 12" knife like a ninja. We live in the swamp, and I will feed bits of you to the gators while you watch."

I never did see him again, and it was a few weeks later that I got shipped off to convent school. I was so angry, so angry, but now...man, I need to call my folks and apologize for my teenage years. Again.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:53 AM on November 9, 2017 [69 favorites]


> I guess we all know what the P stands for in GOP.

Predators?
Poisoners?
Prostitutes?
posted by homunculus at 11:53 AM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS - DECEMBER - PART 1

Lots of December specials, so I will spit into two chunks. There will also be addendum later in the month - there's a Dec 12th special for Iowa Senate 4, but the nominations don't even happen until Nov 17th.

Boilerplate: Lots of law comes out of state legislatures, plenty of it bad. These elections don't get much attention, doubly so for special elections. Because of the small scope, a small amount of your money or time could help elect these folks! Please pitch in, if you can!

(most of November specials were this week, just three in OK on the 14th remain)
====

December 5
- California Assembly 51 - [two candidates]

AD-51 is currently a D seat (the incumbent was elected to the US House); No R in 2016, D won 86-14 in 2014, no R in 2012. The LA-area district was won by by Clinton 84-10 and by Obama 83-14. The Ds control the California Assembly by about 30 seats. This is the runoff for the seat (CA does a top two primary).

=> Obviously, this is a D hold regardless of which candidate wins. Wendy Carrillo looks to be the more progressive of the two.

====

December 5 - Massachusetts Senate Worcester & Middlesex - Susan Chalifoux Zephir

Worcester & Middlesex is currently a D seat (the incumbent resigned to take a state job); D ran unopposed in 2016, won 58-38 in 2014, was unopposed in 2012. District won by Clinton 50-42 and Obama 52-46. The Ds control the Massachusetts Senate by about 25 seats. Note: the GOP candidate's platform is hilariously far left for a Republican.

=> District seems to be drifting right a bit, but in the current environment, should be a D hold.

====

December 5 - Pennsylvania House 133 - Jeanne McNeill (no website)

HD-133 is currently a D seat (the incumbent passed away); D won 56-40 in 2016, 55-45 in 2014, and 65-35 in 2012. The Allentown-area district was won by Clinton 59-40 and by Obama 60-37. The Rs control the Pennsylvania House by about 40 seats.

=> Allentown is a bit of a Trump-y area, but this district seems to still be D. Also, the Dem is the old incumbent's widow, and the R is the same guy who has been running and losing since 2010. Should be a D hold.

====

December 5 - Georgia Senate 6 - [two candidates]

SD-6 is currently an R seat (the incumbent resigned to focus on a run for governor); R won 52-48 in 2016, 61-39 in 2014, and 53-47 in 2012. District went for Clinton 55-40 and Obama 55-40. The Rs control the Georgia Senate by about 20 seats.

=> Ds guaranteed themselves a flip by taking the top two spots in the first round. Of the two, Jen Jordan is more lefty.


====

December 5 - Georgia Senate 39 - [two candidates]

SD-39 is currently a D seat (the incumbent resigned to run for mayor of Atlanta); D was unopposed in 2016, won 84-16 in 2014, was unopposed in 2012. District went for CLinton 85-12 and Obama 85-12.

=> Ds guaranteed a hold by taking the top two slots in the first round. Of the two, Nikema Williams seems a bit more left.


====
More in part 2.

Also, shout of thanks goes out to the Atlanta Journal-Constitution for ACTUALLY LINKING TO CANDIDATE WEBSITES.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:54 AM on November 9, 2017 [45 favorites]


Rob Portman's statement is better than most.

@dylanlscott
Rob Portman on Roy Moore: "I think if what we read is true, and people are on the record so I assume it is, then he should step aside."
posted by chris24 at 11:55 AM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


>> I guess we all know what the P stands for in GOP.
> Predators?
> Poisoners?
> Prostitutes?


Come on, how long do we have to wait for a pee-tape reference?
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:57 AM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


tivalasvegas: "Eh, it doesn't harm him in any way politically, which is the main prerequisite for Sen. McCain to do the right thing."

He WILL stand up against the one thing he's actually personally experienced:
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), who has already warned President Donald Trump against bringing back torture, is vowing to reject any administration nominee who has backed so-called enhanced interrogation techniques.

McCain was the sole GOP senator to vote against confirming Steven Engel to lead the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel earlier this week, citing his role in the controversial torture memos under the George W. Bush administration.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:01 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Wow. That report about the cold shoulders on his visit to the Hill last month must have been on the mark, because the Senate Republicans are shunning him way faster than I expected. I thought for sure they'd give it a news cycle or two, see if any more reports emerged, or if he could weather this.
posted by martin q blank at 12:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Re Texas senators supporting Moore, you know, I've joked about starting a PAC, but seriously y'all, I'm going to price out what it costs to buy billboards on the biggest commuter highway paths, and just put something like Cruz and Cornyn, their brand of Christianity means that old men should be allowed to rape your daughters.

SecretAgentSockpuppet I'm a graphic designer and I would be delighted to design those billboards for you. Just say the word.
posted by mcduff at 12:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


Sounds like there might be more shoes dropping.

@DavidMDrucker (Washington Examiner, CNN)
#ALSEN: @MooreSenate advisor Dean Young called me back to add he expects more attacks directed at Moore: "If the people fail this test, our country is hanging in the balance. If they can beat Judge Moore, they can beat anybody."
posted by chris24 at 12:11 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


If they can beat Judge Moore, they can beat anybody.

Many people, in the US and abroad, are counting on it.
posted by Quindar Beep at 12:12 PM on November 9, 2017 [34 favorites]


@lyman_brian: Alabama State Auditor Jim Zeigler, a Moore backer: "Even if you accept the Washington Post’s report as being completely true, it’s much ado about very little. " #ALSEN #alpolitics

Nothing matters.

If I'm ever somehow this dismissive of actual child molestation in the service of partisanship, somebody slap me.
posted by zachlipton at 12:14 PM on November 9, 2017 [64 favorites]


So, the split in the Senate is going to be 51R/47D+2 others? Nothing's coming along to nudge it a little more?
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:15 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


It’s not about printing ballots, well, except maybe for overseas absentees that have already been mailed, but Alabama law will not allow a replacement this late and it’s a strict interpretation state. They have to run a write in.

Whether this is good policy or not is another question, but Republicans don’t get to ignore voting laws just because they nominated a child molester. If that’s the case let’s all start registering people same day regardless of any voting laws, because the law must not matter. Republicans wanted strict voting laws, they have them in Alabama. Get over it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:15 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


"Even if you accept the Washington Post’s report as being completely true, it’s much ado about very little. "

"It's just a little second degree sexual assault by adult on a child, what's the fuss?"
posted by zombieflanders at 12:17 PM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


So, the split in the Senate is going to be 51R/47D+2 others? Nothing's coming along to nudge it a little more?

52 R. Moore will win if he stays in the race. Republicans are evil.
posted by Justinian at 12:17 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


"Neither Corfman nor any of the other women sought out The Post. While reporting a story in Alabama about supporters of Moore’s Senate campaign, a Post reporter heard that Moore allegedly had sought relationships with teenage girls"
A twitter thread by a South Carolinian on secrets, Roy Moore, and Strom Thurmond. She gets it exactly right, IMO.
posted by octobersurprise at 12:18 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


So, the split in the Senate is going to be 51R/47D+2 others? Nothing's coming along to nudge it a little more?

It's possible that an early Menendez conviction would bump that back to 52/46(+2). Hopefully not though.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:19 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Gross abuse of power in the name of evil is pretty much the GOP selling point, so yeah. Some people are just drawn to that.
posted by Artw at 12:20 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


It's possible that an early Menendez conviction would bump that back to 52/46(+2). Hopefully not though.

My belief is that the Democrats would accept the political hit and refuse to remove Menendez until after Phil Murphy is installed.
posted by Justinian at 12:21 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


52 R. Moore will win if he stays in the race. Republicans are evil.

Again, don't look for this to flip Republicans. Look for it to energize Democrats. Six point margin in the polls. Turnout can beat that.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:21 PM on November 9, 2017 [37 favorites]


This is from Alabama's Secretary of State, aka the person in charge of the state's elections:
Merrill questioned the timing and source of the report, however.

“It’s odd to me that this information has just been introduced. In all the campaigns Judge Moore has ever run before ― and he has run a lot of them, probably a dozen campaigns. It’s very, very odd to me this information has just been introduced.”

He added that Alabama is home to many “outstanding news people” and that “not one of those people has ever been able to” unearth the allegations in the Post story.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:21 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


So, the split in the Senate is going to be 51R/47D+2 others? Nothing's coming along to nudge it a little more?

After Trump last year and Virginia this year, I'm gonna have to be a little skeptical about polling for awhile.
posted by rhizome at 12:22 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Yes, Menendez is not going anywhere (in the event of a conviction, which SCOTUS made more difficult in the McDonnell decision) before Murphy is seated.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


“It’s odd to me that this information has just been introduced. In all the campaigns Judge Moore has ever run before ― and he has run a lot of them, probably a dozen campaigns. It’s very, very odd to me this information has just been introduced.”

Why the FUCK is the SoS opining on this at all?
posted by rhizome at 12:24 PM on November 9, 2017 [31 favorites]


This is a friendly reminder that the President of the United States boasted about how he liked to walk in on teenage pageant contestants while they were changing.
posted by zachlipton at 12:25 PM on November 9, 2017 [101 favorites]


Okay, just checked. Menendez jury is deliberating (second day). It doesn't seem to be a cut-and-dry case, so maybe a mistrial is on its way.

New Jersey inauguration is January 16, 2018.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:25 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Again, don't look for this to flip Republicans. Look for it to energize Democrats. Six point margin in the polls. Turnout can beat that.

And it may induce some Republicans, if not to vote for a Democrat, at least decide to sit this one out.
posted by Gelatin at 12:27 PM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Why the FUCK is the SoS opining on this at all?

Presumably for the same reason the outstanding news people of that state have been unable to see what's going on under their noses.
posted by Artw at 12:29 PM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


NYT: Louis C.K. Crossed a Line Into Sexual Misconduct, 5 Women Say

Sharing mostly because of the context of Moore and the overall rising attention to sexual misconduct and assault. Because here's the thing: we have to be ready to burn all these guys down. Right, left, popular or not.

I wish I could attribute this properly 'cause I read it somewhere, but: the thing about Weinstein and others who've been taken down so far is they aren't personally popular in Hollywood or wherever. Weinstein doesn't actually have that many real friends. He isn't that loved. And someone like Moore or 45 is easy to hate.

The real test for all this shit is gonna be when it's aimed at people who are popular.

@JamesGunn: I will say once again: Sexual predators know no political affiliation. If you believe the stories of Weinstein & Spacey, it is illogical not to believe the stories of Roy Moore & Bill O'Reilly. We are all in this together. Get 'em out of everywhere.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:30 PM on November 9, 2017 [64 favorites]


Also don't forget that Republicans can still write in Luther Strange and it will count as a valid vote. I'm not sure it would be enough for Democratic "W" but if enough of them cast a write-in for strange it could split the R vote just enough ...
posted by Tevin at 12:31 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Two of the sources said Keith Schiller viewed the offer as a joke

There is absolutely no way that he viewed the offer as a joke. It's a beauty pageant in Moscow. He would have to be from the fucking moon.

I have to assume he's making this claim to cover up the reality that his eyes bulged out and his tongue hit the floor like a wolf in a 1930s cartoon
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:35 PM on November 9, 2017 [25 favorites]


Is an astroturfed write-in campaign for Strange just the thing this race needs to get Doug Jones over the line?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:36 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Ehhhhh.... to a certain extent. I'm going to keep track of whose careers gets destroyed and whose don't here. Also hard to see Weinstein as "the left" here, much as both siders would want to, or the reaction from "the left" as the same.
posted by Artw at 12:37 PM on November 9, 2017


Is an astroturfed write-in campaign for Strange just the thing this race needs to get Doug Jones over the line?

Absolutely
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:38 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


The reply should be, "so, he's a reformed sexual assaulter, and so it doesn't matter that he likes molesting teenagers?"
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 12:43 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


It looks like Rhaomi has blessed us with a new thread.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:44 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


New thread?
posted by pxe2000 at 12:44 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Is an astroturfed write-in campaign for Strange just the thing this race needs to get Doug Jones over the line?

So... where can I get a list of Republican voter addresses in Alabama? Might as well write some Luther Strange postcards while I'm stocked up on 34 cent stamps.
posted by vespabelle at 12:45 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Moore is 70. So he married a 23 year old when he was 37. Nothing significant there. Just did the calculations so that you don't have to.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:46 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


New thread?

Moore specific one I would have thought.
posted by Artw at 12:49 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]




Yeah can we get some mod traffic cop action on whether that's a Moore thread or a general politics thread?
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


pls the general

this thread is TOO DAMN LONG
posted by poffin boffin at 12:52 PM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


Isn't Tom Steyer supposedtomake news today?
posted by Room 641-A at 12:52 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


There'll be another batch of awful things to post a general thread on shortly, I don't doubt.
posted by Artw at 12:52 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


That's some solid link game, rhaomi.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:52 PM on November 9, 2017


Mod note: That post seems like a pretty solid, focused take on the Moore/Jones/Alabama thing and I think letting it be specifically about that is the way to go. That said, a new catch-all is basically due now too, so someone kicking that off with a pointer to Rhaomi's for stuff related to the Moore vortex would be a good way to go.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:00 PM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


Isn't Tom Steyer supposed to make news today?

He did, though not a ton of it. $10M more in impeachment ads.

Which...I was going to write a whole thing about this, but I'll just point you to To impeach or not to impeach: The Democrats’ new big rift. I feel like both Steyer and Pelosi are right, and I don't know what to do with that. Democrats absolutely cannot make the 2018 cycle entirely about impeachment, and if activists loudly protest every Democrat who doesn't run on an impeachment platform, we will lose. At the same time, Trump has got to go.

I like the idea of trying to shift the overton window, but I wish the money was being put into something else. GOTV and anti-voter suppression efforts, for instance. Personally, I feel like trying to pop the bubble more gradually is a more effective tact than just "hi I'm Tom Steyer and I want to impeach the President." How about $20M in putting 15-second ads everywhere to fight Trump's false claims of popularism? "Here's Donald Trump having a party to celebrate taking away millions of Americans' health insurance." "Here's Donald Trump making sure you can't sue your bank if they cheat you." "Here's Donald Trump's tax plan. It will raise taxes for N million middle class families."

The kicker on all of these: Trump promised he'd drain the swamp; he is the swamp.
posted by zachlipton at 1:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


stuff related to the Moore vortex

Mooretex, surely
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


> [That post seems like a pretty solid, focused take on the Moore/Jones/Alabama thing and I think letting it be specifically about that is the way to go. That said, a new catch-all is basically due now too, so someone kicking that off with a pointer to Rhaomi's for stuff related to the Moore vortex would be a good way to go.]

Maybe drop the potus45 tag from the new post, then?
posted by tonycpsu at 1:07 PM on November 9, 2017


Done.
posted by cortex at 1:08 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


I feel like both Steyer and Pelosi are right, and I don't know what to do with that. Democrats absolutely cannot make the 2018 cycle entirely about impeachment, and if activists loudly protest every Democrat who doesn't run on an impeachment platform, we will lose. At the same time, Trump has got to go.

We wait for Mueller's investigation to finish. Without a damning report from Mueller impeachment is tilting at windmills. Unless there are intervening events, of course, which is a much higher probability than usual with Trump.
posted by Justinian at 1:08 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


US Conference of Catholic Bishops comes out with a strongly worded letter declaring the tax bill to be "unacceptable":
However, as written, this proposal appears to be the first federal income tax modification in American history that will raise income taxes on the working poor while simultaneously providing a large tax cut to the wealthy. This is simply unconscionable.
Among other things, they also think doubling the standard deduction will lead to billions less in charitable giving, as it will make the tax deduction for charitable contributions worthless for all but the most wealthy.
posted by zachlipton at 1:14 PM on November 9, 2017 [29 favorites]


The kicker on all of these: Trump promised he'd drain the swamp; he is the swamp.

L’swamp c’est moi?
posted by notyou at 1:16 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]




Without a damning report from Mueller impeachment is tilting at windmills. Unless there are intervening events, of course, which is a much higher probability than usual with Trump.

I'll go further than Justinian, and I'm normally the screamy leftist of the two of us. Unless we have 66 votes in the Senate to remove Trump from office, there is absoutely no point in impeachment.

Now we can, and should, **TALK** impeachment all we can. But anyone on the left demanding it is a fool. A failed impeachment vote would bolster Trump's popularity and solidify his grip on power.
posted by sotonohito at 1:25 PM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


NBC, Ken Dilanian and Jonathan Allen, Trump Bodyguard Testifies Russian Offered Trump Women, Was Turned Down

So I forgot we basically already knew this (though having Schiller testify to it is notable), but when the AP reported it in July, we learned that it was Emin Agalarov who offered to bring Trump prostitutes in Moscow. Just the same Agalarovs that setup the "adoption" meeting at Trump Tower a couple years later.

It has to be real, right?
posted by zachlipton at 1:26 PM on November 9, 2017 [13 favorites]


> It has to be real, right?

Look in your heart - you know it to be true.
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:33 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Among other things, they also think doubling the standard deduction will lead to billions less in charitable giving, as it will make the tax deduction for charitable contributions worthless for all but the most wealthy.

Also, the repeal of the estate tax will eliminate the incentive to make a charitable bequest (or make charitable gifts throughout one's life to reduce the size of one's estate). A 2003 Tax Policy Center study estimated that repealing the estate tax would reduce charitable bequests by 37% and a 2004 CBO report estimated repeal would reduce charitable bequests by 16-28% [link].
posted by melissasaurus at 1:37 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Senate GOP Unveils Tax Bill With More Pain for Blue States (Alex Seitz-wald, Benjy Sarlin and Leigh Ann Caldwell for NBC, Nov. 9, 2017)
Republicans can lose only two votes in the Senate to get a majority for the tax bill, unless they can woo some Democrats to vote for it. That seems unlikely, even after some last-minute courting by White House officials at a private meeting with moderate Democrats Tuesday.

The Senate bill maintains the current seven individual income-tax brackets, unlike the House's four, and lowers the top rate to 38.5 percent, while the House bill maintains it at 39.6 percent but applies it to higher income.

And unlike the House version, the Senate bill would fully repeal the deduction for state and local taxes, which has become a key sticking point among GOP congressmen from high-tax states like New York and New Jersey, whose constituents depend on that deduction.

The House included a deduction for the first $10,000 in property taxes to appease those members, but the Senate, which has fewer Republicans from such states, has no such provision in its bill. In the end, the House may be forced to swallow whatever the Senate passes and it's unclear if dissenting lawmakers from high-tax states have enough numbers to prevent it.
Bolded for emphasis -- not good if you're trying to woo some Democrats from those states.
The Senate would boost the child tax credit to $1,650 and raise the income threshold for the measure. And like the House plan, the standard deduction would be doubled to $12,000 for individuals, $24,000 for married couples, and $18,000 for single parents.

The Senate bill would reduce the number of wealthy people who pay the estate tax by doubling the current threshold for the tax, which currently kicks in for individuals on estates worth over $5.6 million. The House bill eliminates the estate tax entirely.
Good luck getting the House and Senate bills to align before Thanksgiving.

And by good luck, I mean "go fuck yourselves."
posted by filthy light thief at 1:43 PM on November 9, 2017 [30 favorites]


It has to be real, right?

The pee tape is out there.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:48 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


It has to be real, right?

What you find-ah
What you feel now
What you know-ah
To be real
posted by kirkaracha at 1:51 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Menendez updates:
Menendez trial blockbuster: A juror dismissed bc of her planned vacation told reporters Menendez "did nothing wrong," the prosecution is "corrupted" and that they "railroaded" the senator. She said if she stayed on, Menendez would have been not guilty on all counts. Story soon

The juror said she thinks it will end up in a hung jury. Some think he's guilty, some not.
For the record, I think he needs to go regardless, once he can be replaced with a Democrat.
posted by zachlipton at 1:51 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yes, I think a resignation for Gov. Murphy to fill would be wise.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:52 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


Yeah. Progressives, this is the kind of race we can all agree on. Let's primary this asshole if he manages to beat the charge.
posted by Justinian at 1:52 PM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


homunculus: They're Teaching History in New Mexico Without Rosa Parks or the Atomic Bomb. This week in the laboratories of democracy.

To clarify:
Students in high school U.S. History classes across New Mexico this year will not be tested on massive corporations and monopolies being forced to dismantle during the early 20th Century, the racial and ethnic conflict as people moved from farms to cities, or the bravery of Rosa Parks in fighting segregation in the South.
I don't see parents pushing back against teachers teaching these topics or subjects, but the Public Education Department has been highly politicized by our shitty Texas import governor, Susana Martinez. Under her administration, PED has tried to control public information and has implemented shitty teacher evaluations that dock teachers for missing days for mandatory training, or if a teacher uses six or more sick days, even if their contract allows for more.

Oh, and the prior Secretary of Education left suddenly and without justification, after a tumultuous seven years on the job, and on her departure, National Education Association-New Mexico was glad to see her leave, and the American Federation of Teachers New Mexico had more blunt words about her:
On Governor Martinez and Secretary Skandera’s watch in New Mexico, our State slid from 37th to 49th in the nation in the quality of our public education, was subjected to relentless attacks on public schools in favor of charter and private schools, had to fight against voucher schemes raiding public school funding, fought mandatory flunking of our students based on standardized testing, was subjected to abusive levels of over-testing of our students, and faced the institution of the nation’s most punitive evaluation system which has contributed to historic shortages of educators and students studying to enter the field of education
For the glowing write-up on now acting secretary Christopher Ruszkowski from AP, it sounds like he's doing the same shit job as Skandera.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:00 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


A juror dismissed bc of her planned vacation

Wait wait hold up: dismissed for a vacation? That's a thing? Last time I had jury duty, when I was still in selection, the judge informed us that the trial might go over a month and I had a planned-for-half-a-year, nonnegotiable business trip in three weeks, I got screamed at for being a terrible citizen and ruining democracy.

Previously in NM, just so you know what they're dealing with, in Martinez (who is a real gem)
posted by halation at 2:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


So I was waiting to see some of the numbers with the increased deductions to see how it would effect people in my community, and the senate proposal doesn't look good for upper middle class families:

basic idea-
in 25% income bracket, married, in a high COL area with a recent-ish mortgage (within 10 years), but state and local taxes not too high, at least one kid. an INCREASE in federal taxes paid of ~$3,500. That's quite an increase. I suppose 20 years down the line, when the interest paid is below the 24,000 deduction threshold, the families wouldn't mind it, but it really does screw over people in high SALT areas with large mortgages. I'm sure a lot of the families could absorb an additional tax of $3,500, and I personally wouldn't mind paying some more taxes, but not so corporations and rich families can get the cut!

It's going to be really hard to square the out of the box tax increases for the supposed GOP base (upper middle class white people in affluent areas). a standard deduction of 24,000 for a married couple sounds like a lot, but is peanuts with a conventional mortgage at 4% interest.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 2:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


"So the state's position is that it's too late to remove him from the ballot but if the majority of voters picks him the state will straight up shred the election result on the Republican party's say-so? They can do that? Because that's an unsettling precedent, and also today is bonkers."

This is the law in many states; there is a point at which the ballot is finalized and late withdrawing candidates just don't have their votes counted. One of the things it prevents is a party running one candidate in the primary (to capture the base) and a different one last-second in the general (to move to the center) because that thwarts the will of the voters. It prevents parties from fucking around removing a weak candidate and replacing them with a strong one because they don't like the polls. Or whatever.

It happens a lot more often in local races; it's probably happened a couple of times in the past five years in a local county board race or city council race or similar near you. (A candidate can't hack it, or falls ill, or is transferred for their work, or something, and they don't have the big campaign apparatus a national race does, they have to actually respond to their life situations.) Generally it's quite well-publicized and even though people know way less about local races, they become aware of the late withdrawal rules and that particular race.

But yeah, this is really common and widely accepted as a fair way to deal with the procedural issues around late-withdrawing candidates. It's sometimes unfortunate, but democracy is about people and sometimes life is messy.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


I just posted a link to some legal analysis of withdrawing in the Moore thread, btw.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


CNN, Mueller interviews top White House aide
White House senior policy adviser Stephen Miller has been interviewed as part of special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia probe, according to sources familiar with the investigation.
The interview brings the special counsel investigation into President Donald Trump's inner circle in the White House. Miller is the highest-level aide still working at the White House known to have talked to investigators.

Miller's role in the firing of FBI Director James Comey was among the topics discussed during the interview as part of the probe into possible obstruction of justice, according to one of the sources.

Special counsel investigators have also shown interest in talking to attendees of a March 2016 meeting where foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos said that he could arrange a meeting between Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin through his connections. Miller was also at the meeting, according to a source familiar with the meeting.
That Mueller is increasingly bringing in top White House officials must be making Trump sweat. The tweets are going to be so angry.
posted by zachlipton at 2:26 PM on November 9, 2017 [28 favorites]


DEF-CAKE 5 ALERT:

Rumors Swirl About Mueller Probe After 34 Sealed Cases Filed in D.C. Federal Court (Rachel Stockman, Law Newz)
LawNewz.com verified that there are currently 34 cases that have been filed under seal in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia between the dates of October 27th (when Manafort was indicted) and today’s date. While the sealed cases are certainly interesting to note, they may not be tied to Special Counsel Robert Mueller‘s investigation of possible ties between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. That’s not stopping the rumors:
posted by Room 641-A at 2:30 PM on November 9, 2017 [25 favorites]


Trump spent years insisting we would all be saying Merry Christmas again, and now he's sending out engraved invitations inviting White House reporters to a "holiday reception."

I know he's got a problem following through on promises, but I thought at least he could control his own stationary.
posted by zachlipton at 2:30 PM on November 9, 2017 [25 favorites]


DEF-CAKE 5 ALERT

I get what you were going for here, but I think CAKE-CON 5 sounds better
posted by ArgentCorvid at 2:33 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


That Mueller is increasingly bringing in top White House officials must be making Trump sweat

Thing about Mueller is that he's already been interviewing a lot of people for a long time, so there has to be a certain amount of "inviting people in and seeing if they lie about something he already knows."
posted by rhizome at 2:33 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


BuzzFeed, Millions Of Puerto Ricans Just Lost Power Again After A Line Repaired By Whitefish Energy Failed: "Officials confirmed more than 80% of Puerto Rico was once again in the dark Thursday after the failure of a major power line."

Heck of a job, Whitefish.
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on November 9, 2017 [66 favorites]


Ryan Zinke, Richard Spencer, some shady energy company...Does anything good come out of Whitefish?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:39 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Always link to this image for Defcon 5.

Thank you.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:40 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


Does anything good come out of Whitefish?

I once saw a perfectly nice production of Little Orphan Annie at the local theater hall there.
posted by cortex at 3:00 PM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


Does anything good come out of Whitefish?

You could do worse than a nice whitefish salad.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:00 PM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


i would be sincerely shocked if you can get whitefish salad in whitefish
posted by halation at 3:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Y'all know that DEFCON 5 is the *lowest* state of readiness, yeah?
posted by hanov3r at 3:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [11 favorites]


I get what you were going for here, but I think CAKE-CON 5 sounds better

If jam can be def, so can cake.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:07 PM on November 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


Y'all know that DEFCON 5 is the *lowest* state of readiness, yeah?

I actually downgraded it from DEF-CAKE 3 since they're really just rumors and I didn't want anyone to get excited about indictments. Or cake. Yes, I thought about it that hard.

CAKECON sounds like ComicCon but with cake, which would be awesome.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:16 PM on November 9, 2017 [23 favorites]


Does anything good come out of Whitefish?

Whitefish has access to the fantastic Glacier National Park and good skiing, and I know plenty of good people there. The town itself is less right-wing than most places in Montana and has done a pretty OK job of telling Richard Spencer to fuck himself. I have many problems with the politics of the town and area and loathe the absolutely shameful state-level politics, but as a local I feel the need to stand up for it a little: you folks should just let us be ashamed of ourselves and consume our ration of feces in peace. Maybe this summer you can spend a little tourist money to look at some bison or mountain goats, which I promise are not racist: they hate all human ethnicities equally.

And no, you can't get whitefish salad in Whitefish. Speaking as at least 1% of northwest Montana's Jews, it hurts.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [63 favorites]


Stephen Miller, James Comey and the Mystery of the Secret Hour
What am I talking about? Well, with a touch of dramatic flair I’m talking about this odd and increasingly odd over time mystery about what was happening the night President Trump came back from his Bedminster villa after a weekend of stewing about James Comey and then fired Comey 36 hours later.

At the time, it just seemed like another Trump era weirdness. Air Force One landed. Jared got off the plane, put Ivanka and the kids in an SUV and then got back on the plane. And then Trump and a group of his closest aides were apparently arguing on the plane for about an hour while the traveling press cooled its heels and wondered what was going on. They never got an explanation. But after about an hour a rather disheveled President Trump got off the plane and went back to the White House. Who was there on the plane with Trump? Stephen Miller.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:41 PM on November 9, 2017 [26 favorites]


And no, you can't get whitefish salad in Whitefish.

i mean the state level politics are bad enough but this should be illegal
whitefish salad is a human right
posted by halation at 3:41 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


A couple of Senators are holding up Interior nominations because they want a meeting with Zinke on his efforts to roll back national monuments.

And it seems to be getting awfully testy. Zinke responds to Sen. Dick Durbin: "Happy to talk monuments and nominees. Call anytime, Dick." So much for the idea that more characters on twitter would make people behave better.

The letter ends "As a former Navy SEAL, this is not the type of hostage situation I am accustomed to, but I am happy to meet with you to resolve any issue at the Department of the Interior."

Christ, what an asshole.
posted by zachlipton at 4:09 PM on November 9, 2017 [40 favorites]


The whole attitude is that of a restaurant owner whose busboys have objected to the options he ordered on his new car
posted by thelonius at 4:26 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Does Zinke not know how much oversight authority elected representatives have over him and his department?
posted by notyou at 4:27 PM on November 9, 2017 [23 favorites]


We wait for Mueller's investigation to finish. Without a damning report from Mueller impeachment is tilting at windmills. Unless there are intervening events, of course, which is a much higher probability than usual with Trump.

Such as him admitting in a TV interview he fired Comey to obstruct the Russia probe.

The problem is, the media isn't smart enough to recognize how badly Trump isn't normal, not brave enough to call him on it, and not honest enough not to have someone wise on to point it out without also having an Republican saying of course obstruction of justice isn't impeachable, we never had a president resign over it or anything, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
posted by Gelatin at 4:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


notyou: "Does Zinke not know how much oversight authority elected representatives have over him and his department?"

Based on his previous behaviour, I'm gonna say no. No, he does not.
posted by mhum at 5:03 PM on November 9, 2017 [10 favorites]


HuffPo, Ryan J. Reilly, It Sure Seems Like Paul Manafort Is Misleading A Federal Judge So He Can Winter In Florida. In which Manafort says he wants to go to Florida on bail because he works with a company in Fort Lauderdale that's developing "secure, “virtually indestructible” cellphones," but the owner of said company says Manafort has nothing to do with it anymore:
Here’s the problem: Manafort’s friend Hector Hoyos, executive chairman and chief technology officer of Hoyos Integrity, says Manafort hasn’t been associated with the company in months. Hoyos said he has “no idea” what Manafort’s lawyer was referring to in court on Monday.

“Insofar as my company is concerned, Hoyos Integrity, he was a consultant of ours, but he’s not any longer,” Hoyos told HuffPost. “He has no relationship with us in any way, shape or form.”
It's, you know, entirely possible that Manafort is now working for another "secure virtually indestructible" cell phone company in Fort Lauderdale completely separate from the one run by his buddy that he got pushed out of a couple months ago, but the judge might want to ask a few questions here.
posted by zachlipton at 5:15 PM on November 9, 2017 [28 favorites]


“He has no relationship with us in any way, shape or form.”

Fond memories, I guess.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:19 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Yashar Ali, Trump Thinks Scientology Should Have Tax Exemption Revoked, Longtime Aide Says. The connection to Trump is a bit distant here. It's coming from a Twitter DM from Lynne Patton, who works at HUD but has been a Trump aide since 2009, so who knows exactly who she's speaking for. But the prospect of a war between Trump and Scientology is exactly the level of stupidity 2017 deserves.
posted by zachlipton at 5:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [56 favorites]


You could do worse than a nice whitefish salad.

Alright, that's it. First thing tomorrow, it's off to Attman's for whitefish salad on — what would you suggest? A rye bagel, perhaps? Maybe a couple of nice tomato slices?

give me suggestions, is what I guess I'm saying
posted by CommonSense at 5:35 PM on November 9, 2017


> But the prospect of a war between Trump and Scientology is exactly the level of stupidity 2017 deserves.

45 is such a fuckup that I'm pretty sure if he starts a war with Scientology next Monday, he'll be hooked up to an e-meter by Wednesday and paying to have his thetans audited by Friday.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:37 PM on November 9, 2017 [58 favorites]


US Conference of Catholic Bishops comes out with a strongly worded letter declaring the tax bill to be "unacceptable"

In secular, that reads, "Fuck you, Paul."
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:37 PM on November 9, 2017 [17 favorites]


I really think the Trump vs. Scientology thing should be nurtured...

Sir, no other president has been able to take them on. But I'm sure that you will succeed, you have the evangelicals on your side!

Then David Miscavige can declare him an SP and *that* can be Trump's war. I'm sure they could come up with a much dodgier dossier.
posted by elsietheeel at 5:43 PM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


But the prospect of a war between Trump and Scientology is exactly the level of stupidity 2017 deserves.

...

...

...

SEA ORG will save us???

Jesus take the wheel can this year be over already
posted by tivalasvegas at 5:52 PM on November 9, 2017 [31 favorites]


if you think 2017's been fun just wait until you see what the writers have planned for 2018.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:56 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


Good luck getting the House and Senate bills to align before Thanksgiving.

that republicans can gerrymander and snowjob their way to total domination of the legislative branch but still can't, like, pass any laws that they actually want makes me feel like democracy is half-working.

like a banged up car that will get you to the grocery store in a pinch but which you wouldn't dare drive out of town
posted by murphy slaw at 5:58 PM on November 9, 2017 [39 favorites]


But the prospect of a war between Trump and Scientology is exactly the level of stupidity 2017 deserves.

Scientology beat the IRS when the gov't was run by competent administrators. In the Trump era, Scientology would probably respond to a renewed challenge by taking over the IRS and running it themselves. David Miscavige can out-evil Trump while interpreting an e-meter and reciting Battleship Earth from memory. Oh Xenu, seeing Scientology kick the shit out of the Trump admin would give me so many conflicted and confused feelings.
posted by dis_integration at 6:02 PM on November 9, 2017 [31 favorites]


Thing about Mueller is that he's already been interviewing a lot of people for a long time, so there has to be a certain amount of "inviting people in and seeing if they lie about something he already knows."

This is basic federal investigatory procedure, isn't it? "Two Truths and a Lie" in reverse, basically. They bring you in and ask you a hundred questions, ninety-nine of which they already know the answer to and one of which they would really like to get a truthful answer to. Lie at the wrong time and they have a USC 1001 case against you tied up with a bow, and they will stitch you up but hard unless you give 'em a bigger fish. Rinse, lather, and repeat until you get your target.
posted by jackbishop at 6:05 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


But the prospect of a war between Trump and Scientology is exactly the level of stupidity 2017 deserves.

A pity they couldn't both lose.
posted by ocschwar at 6:14 PM on November 9, 2017 [14 favorites]


Senate tax bill is out (PDF). They'll be analysis as people pour through it, but here's a quick clue as to how awful it is:

@ChuckCBPP (heads tax policy at CBPP): The Senate caps the CTC for low wage workers at $1,000 adjusted for inflation to keep them from getting much of an increase & raises the the income limit to $1 million -- full $3,300 for family of four making a million. Wow

Richard Rubin is liveblogging some details, including very different treatment of pass-through entities from the House. Here are the highlights, but those were written by Orrin Hatch's office, so not the place to find much information.
posted by zachlipton at 6:17 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


Man, poor Whitefish Energy is going to have to rebrand themselves. I'd suggest Surströmming Energy or Kæstur Hákarl Energy.
posted by mubba at 6:20 PM on November 9, 2017 [8 favorites]


Pity "Blackwater" was already taken.
posted by tivalasvegas at 6:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Not to mention Whitewater.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:28 PM on November 9, 2017 [4 favorites]


how about Greywater?
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:32 PM on November 9, 2017 [27 favorites]


But the prospect of a war between Trump and Scientology...
...would probably result in Tom Cruise as the Democratic Party nominee for President in 2020...
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:34 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Is there something specific I should be asking my congresspersons to support/do in regard to the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Puerto Rico? My representative is not on the House Committee on Natural Resources that's currently hearing from Puerto Rican officials and I'm not sure where else any congressional action may be happening. I've already written in support of financial aid for emergency & recovery, but I'm planning on calling in the near future, too--though my draft of a script is currently just fury about American citizens dying in numbers that aren't even being adequately tracked.

(And, yeah, I know donating to reputable on-the-ground charities is the most helpful thing I can personally do. I'm committed to additionally expressing my opinions to my political representatives.)
posted by mixedmetaphors at 6:48 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


DEF-CAKE 5 ALERT:

We would also have accepted

CHECK OUT GOP TAPE

*snif* you know I'm so. damned. proud of all of you, right? *snif*
posted by petebest at 7:06 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]


whitefish salad on — what would you suggest?

if you're me, an everything bagel. don't bother with tomato, don't bother with anything except maybe more whitefish salad
other acceptable answers: egg bagel, sesame bagel
posted by halation at 7:26 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


More like Brownout Energy

Or lbr, Browntrout Energy.
posted by juice boo at 7:57 PM on November 9, 2017 [2 favorites]


The Senate caps the CTC for low wage workers at $1,000 adjusted for inflation to keep them from getting much of an increase & raises the the income limit to $1 million -- full $3,300 for family of four making a million. Wow

At least they're subtle unlike the "incorporate and tax advantage of this loophole big enough to fly an A380 through" from the House.
posted by Talez at 8:05 PM on November 9, 2017


You guys you can buy tickets to the NYC DSA holiday fundraiser party called REDS NEED GREEN

I am decorating.
posted by The Whelk at 8:14 PM on November 9, 2017 [21 favorites]


CHECK OUT GOP TAPE


ewwww
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 8:18 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


"I’m honestly kind of in shock over how easy it was for the Chinese to butter up and roll this chump."

I want the media to start relentlessly beating this drum, about how Trump is such a dupe he's easily conned by foreign countries, and too dumb to realize he's being conned. I can think of few things that would piss him off more!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:23 PM on November 9, 2017 [47 favorites]


-Buys and fixes up heritage buildings around the world, only to cover them in gaudy gold branding
-Sells self-improvement bullshit in late night infomercials to the gullible and desperate
-Hates the FBI, IRS, science, etc.

Trump practically *is* Scientology.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:46 PM on November 9, 2017 [20 favorites]


UPCOMING SPECIAL ELECTIONS - DECEMBER - PART 2

Part 1
====

December 5 - Georgia House 60 - [two candidates]

HD-60 is currently a D seat (the incumbent resigned to run for county office); the D won 92-8 in 2016, was unopposed in 2014 and 2012. The district was won by Clinton 91-7 (districts were different for Obama). The Rs control the Georgia House by about 50 seats. This is the top two runoff.

=> Definition of a safe seat. Of the two Ds, De'Andre Pickett seems slightly better.

====

December 5
- Georgia House 89 - [two candidates]

HD-60 is currently a D seat (the incumbent resigned to focus on her run for governor); the D won unopposed in 2016, 2014, and 2012. The Atlanta area district was won by Clinton 90-6. This is the top two runoff.

=> Another totally safe seat. Both candidates look good, I'd give Sachin Varghese the slight edge.

====

December 12 - Alabama US Senate - Doug Jones

Alabama's second Senate seat is currently an R (the incumbent resigned to inflict himself on us all as attorney general); the R won unopposed in 2014 and 63-37 in 2008. The state was won by Trump 62-34 and Romney 61-38. The Rs control the US Senate 52-48.

=> I believe you are familiar with this race, it's been in the news a bit today. Roy Moore is obviously the strong favorite, but Moore-Jones is probably the most favorable matchup Dems could get. Consider giving him some money.

====

December 19 - Florida House 58 - Jose Vazquez

HD-58 is currently an R seat (the incumbent resigned for apparent health issues); the R won 58-42 in 2016, no D ran in 2014, and won 57-43 in 2016. The Tampa-area district was won by Trump 53-43 and by Romney 52-47. The Rs control the Florida House by about 35 seats.

=> On paper, this is a reach but maybe doable. However, the D lost this same race in 2016 and as an independent in 2012. Unless the R is more of a stiff than he appears - he won a hard-fought primary - this one is likely to stay R.

====

December 19 - Mississippi Senate 49 - [see below]

SD-49 is currently an R seat (the incumbent was appointed to a judgeship); the R won with no D competition in 2015 and 2011. No presidential details, sorry. The Rs control the Mississippi Senate by about a dozen seats.

=> Mississippi specials are run without party labels, but as far as I can tell, all three candidates are actually Republicans, so to hell with it.

====

December 19 - Tennessee Senate 17 - Mary Alice Carfi

SD-17 is currently an R seat (the incumbent resigned to focus on running for governor); the R won unopposed in 2014 and 63-37 in 2010. The Nashville suburban district went for Trump 72-24 and Romney 69-30. The Rs control the Tennessee Senate by about 20 seats.

=> I give people a lot of credit for running these seats, but this one is not happening.

====

And that's it until January 2018 specials.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:55 PM on November 9, 2017 [32 favorites]


"It's just a little second degree sexual assault by adult on a child, what's the fuss?"

Was that wrong? Should I not have done that?
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 9:22 PM on November 9, 2017 [3 favorites]


Sarah Sanders on a Putin meeting:
Regarding a Putin meeting, there was never a meeting confirmed, and *there will not be one that takes place *due to scheduling conflicts on both sides. There is no formal meeting or anything scheduled for them. Now, theyre going to be in the same place. Are they going to bump into each other and say hello? Certainly possible and likely. But in terms of a scheduled, formal meeting, theres not one on the calendar and we dont anticipate that there will be one.
So this is going to be like the G20 where they have a secret meeting using only Putin's translator again, right?
posted by zachlipton at 9:47 PM on November 9, 2017 [50 favorites]


There were scheduling conflicts on both sides. Both sides.

(And there is totally going to be another secret meeting in plain view.)
posted by scarylarry at 9:50 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


Sarah Sanders on a Putin meeting:

[sigh] God it was so nice not to have to hear her bullshit at all for a few days.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:53 PM on November 9, 2017 [6 favorites]




So this is going to be like the G20 where they have a secret meeting using only Putin's translator again, right?

Maybe also a Chinese translator after the tremendous meetings Trump and Xi just had?
posted by notyou at 10:03 PM on November 9, 2017 [1 favorite]


ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:
-- Mentioned earlier, another GOP resignation, Bob Goodlatte of VA-6 is not running again. The seat should be safe GOP (Romney 60-40, Trump 60-35, and Gillespie carried it 60-39 this week).

One thing noticeable is that we seem to be seeing retirements from committee chairs (Goodlatte, Lamar Smith). The GOP put term limits in a few years back for chairmanships. Being in the House is not a lot of fun if you aren't in charge of something.

-- The Philly burbs have often gone blue at the presidential level, but GOP lower down. Dems had some very strong showings in downballot action there Tuesday, which may make several Reps nervous. Especially because...

-- The PA Supreme Court has agreed to take a gerrymandering case on an expedited basis, affecting 2018 elections. Further, a) the PA SC is controlled by Democrats, and b) this is on a state constitutional basis, so the Gill vs Whitford case at SCOTUS is not relevant. This could result in a substantial pickup of seats.

-- The DCCC is adding 11 new target districts. More from WP.
** Alabama Senate special -- There was some news today concerning Roy Moore, you may have heard something about it. This was a good Daily Beast piece on the state of the race before that (maybe 5-7 point trailing, national Dems trying to help quietly).

** Kobach fraud commission:
-- Democrat on the commission is now suing it for, basically, being a total sham.

-- Gizmodo: Network security for Kobach's Crosscheck voter verification program is staggeringly bad.
** Odds & ends:
-- Ryan Lizza: Tuesday's results may indicate that the GOP is replaying the Proposition 187 scenario again (racism equals short-term game, medium-term disaster).

-- USAT op-ed: We can avoid most problems with the Electoral College without constitutional tinkering (tl;dr - Runoffs if winner is under 50%).

-- The Nevada GOP has been up to some shenanigans, trying to recall three Dem senators they don't like (Nevada allows you to try to recall someone without cause). One of the petitions has now failed for insufficient signatures, and a second is being challenged in court. Third one is due next Tuesday, and thought that it might fail to get enough signatures as well.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:09 PM on November 9, 2017 [45 favorites]


CNN: Mueller interviews top White House aide

It’s Stephen Miller, and I can’t wait for the transcript.
posted by notyou at 10:44 PM on November 9, 2017 [12 favorites]


Compared to Page: More coherence, more racism.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:54 PM on November 9, 2017 [9 favorites]


I don't think Mueller releases transcripts, only the Senate committees
posted by PenDevil at 10:55 PM on November 9, 2017 [5 favorites]


In the history books. It’s gonna be great.
posted by notyou at 10:59 PM on November 9, 2017 [7 favorites]


Just to f/u on Room 641-A's post, Benjamin Wittes of Lawfare (and friendship with Comey) tweeted Wednesday

Just telling you all this: there are NOT 33 sealed indictments on the docket at the U.S. District Court in D.C. I spent some time looking at the docket this evening. People are confusing indictments with cases before magistrate judges.
posted by dhartung at 11:38 PM on November 9, 2017 [15 favorites]


Twitter has suspended their verification check mark program until it can figure out how to not give it to Nazis and other heinous entities

Actually I'm not sure that's a correct reading. From the linked article:

"Verification was meant to authenticate identity & voice but it is interpreted as an endorsement or an indicator of importance."

So the problem from their perspective isn't that Nazis and other heinous entities have check marks, the problem is that anyone has a problem with that.
posted by walrus at 12:36 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


I'm going to have some cake nearby, just in case.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:38 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Apologies if this has been posted already, a search for "Flynn" didn't turn it up:

WSJ: Mueller Probes Flynn’s Role in Alleged Plan to Deliver Cleric to Turkey

Flynn and Flynn Jr planned to kidnap and deliver a Muslim cleric to Turkey for millions of dollars. Yikes.
posted by Roommate at 3:46 AM on November 10, 2017 [47 favorites]


allegedly
posted by Roommate at 3:52 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


> Flynn and Flynn Jr planned to kidnap and deliver a Muslim cleric to Turkey for millions of dollars. Yikes.
This "a cleric" is Fethullah Gülen, the most wanted opposition figure by Erdoğan's government.
posted by runcifex at 4:29 AM on November 10, 2017 [30 favorites]


ABC: Papadopoulos lied to FBI in "an apparent case of blind loyalty to protect Donald Trump,” ABC News reports, and is “upset the man he tried to protect is now trying to distance himself.”

What tastes worse, meatloaf or bus tyre?
posted by PenDevil at 4:54 AM on November 10, 2017 [35 favorites]


“upset the man he tried to protect is now trying to distance himself.”

The man gave the scorpion/frog thing in his stump speech.
posted by thelonius at 4:57 AM on November 10, 2017 [52 favorites]


Because why not, GOP Plan Retains Tax Break for Golf-Course Owners.
posted by peeedro at 5:00 AM on November 10, 2017 [42 favorites]


Is there something specific I should be asking my congresspersons to support/do in regard to the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Puerto Rico

Honestly, from my POV, giving them support and encouragement to Carthago delenda est the fucking thing. Getting up to vote? “Aye, and also, we should save Puerto Rico.” Making a speech? “Blah blab policy, and also, people in PR are fucking dying.”

But I’m bitter, so this may not be the most practical, just the most satisfying.
posted by corb at 5:10 AM on November 10, 2017 [34 favorites]


give me suggestions, is what I guess I'm saying

My sister would just get a smoked whitefish. I couldn't deal with the bones.
posted by mikelieman at 5:37 AM on November 10, 2017


This is basic federal investigatory procedure, isn't it? "Two Truths and a Lie" in reverse, basically. They bring you in and ask you a hundred questions, ninety-nine of which they already know the answer to and one of which they would really like to get a truthful answer to. Lie at the wrong time and they have a USC 1001 case against you tied up with a bow, and they will stitch you up but hard unless you give 'em a bigger fish. Rinse, lather, and repeat until you get your target.

THIS is why, of this horrible, horrible saga, this is the most hopeful part. Law enforcement officers are on classic TEXTBOOK workflows in dealing with organized ( and dis-organized ) crime. Now, all we have to do is defy despair, and when we come out the other side of this nightmare, we'll be stronger for it.

WE ARE ON THE RAILS PEOPLE. While heretofore we've been blazing new trails in the Executive office, the RULE OF LAW will prevail. They've got way more experience busting crooks than the Trump administration has of being crooks.

We're over the top. We coast form here. AMEN!
posted by mikelieman at 5:49 AM on November 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


I'm so exhausted with the "We must understand the Republican Voter" articles, but this Vox piece by Ezra Klein lays out a good model for the argument that it truly is Tribe over Country. (The headline leaves something to be desired though.)

For elites, politics is driven by ideology. For voters, it’s not.
The instability of voters’ ideological identities is really striking here. If you asked an average voter in 2000 whether they were liberal, moderate, conservative, or none of the above, their answer was only 63 percent predictive of what they’d tell you two years later. For voters with very little political knowledge, ideological identity is so fragile it’s probably not even worth calling it an identity. If you are a diehard liberal or conservative who hasn’t changed your views in 20 years, look at this table and reflect on just how unusual you are.

These findings pose a profound challenge to traditional models of politics. In theory, ideology comes first and party comes second. We decide whether we’re for single-payer health care, or same-sex marriage, or abortion restriction, and then we choose the party that most closely fits our ideas. You’re a liberal and so you become a Democrat; you’re a conservative and so you become a Republican.

The truth, it seems, is closer to the reverse: We choose our party for a variety of reasons — chief among them being the preferences of our family members, core groups, and community — and then we sign on to their platforms. In this telling, write Kinder and Kalmoe, “ideological identification is primarily an effect, not a cause, of a person’s political views.”

This theory makes a prediction: If party identification is stronger than ideological identification, then as parties change their ideological identities, their loyalists will change with them, rather than abandoning them. And that’s a lot closer to what we see. The exception is high-information voters, who keep their party identification and ideological identification linked.

posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:02 AM on November 10, 2017 [38 favorites]


To which, I don't believe the Democratic Party can do much, if anything, to change the current political landscape. If the Republicans want to undo Trumpism, they're going to have to step up and do it themselves, because their voters aren't coming over to the Democrat's side.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:05 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Trump margin in Florida? 113,000

@adamsmithtimes (politics editor, Tampa Bay Times)
More than 140,000 Puerto Ricans have moved to FL since Maria hit
posted by chris24 at 6:09 AM on November 10, 2017 [81 favorites]


ideological identification is primarily an effect, not a cause, of a person’s political views.

I have to wonder how much of this is about how they define ideology and ideological consistency. Yeah, most people don’t know the classical definitions of liberal or conservative, because most people don’t get this kind of education. The words literally mean something different depending on the type of education you had.

I think the social tribe effect is probably very large, but I think something akin to “world view” is also probably pretty stable, if harder to measure. (And yeah, those things are probably related.)

But yeah I agree we’re fucked. That’s a third of the country that hates and is diametrically opposed to another third, and then a third that just doesn’t want to be bothered.
posted by schadenfrau at 6:22 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Trump margin in Florida? 113,000

@adamsmithtimes (politics editor, Tampa Bay Times)
More than 140,000 Puerto Ricans have moved to FL since Maria hit


Many Puerto Rican refugees may well stay home if the Democratic Party fails to make repairing their home a signature issue and if Republicans like Rubio successfully portray themselves as the island's friends. Better Democratic margins in swing states are great, but that's to be a temporary condition if the federal government bears its responsibilities to the island.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 6:24 AM on November 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Many Puerto Rican refugees may well stay home if the Democratic Party fails to make repairing their home a signature issue

Pair that message with Statehood ( deeds, not words! ) , and I think it's a slam-dunk.
posted by mikelieman at 6:35 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


I sense a "Puerto Ricans are not really Americans" act coming.
posted by Artw at 6:37 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


I have to wonder how much of this is about how they define ideology and ideological consistency.

Those definitions come very early in the paper by Phillip Converse, linked from the article. (it's 75 pages, so I haven't read the whole thing yet.)

It literally starts off with a definition of terms, though.
A term like "ideology" has been thoroughly muddled by diverse uses.2
We shall depend instead upon the term "belief system," although there
is an obvious overlap between the two. We define a belief system as a
configuration of ideas and attitudes in which the elements are bound
together by some form of constraint or functional interdependence.3 [...]
And it goes on for a while like that... I can only assume that these definitions are close to the definitions used by Kinder and Kalmoe, that they define in chapter 3 of their book (also linked from the article, but the text is not linked, just the table of contents.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:38 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


If ideology doesn't matter then why do Republicajs have one that is so fucking evil?
posted by Artw at 6:50 AM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


I have to wonder how much of this is about how they define ideology and ideological consistency.

I haven't read Kinder and Kalmoe, because not behaviorist, but the long-standing operational definition of ideological constraint boils down to:

(1) When we ask you what you like or dislike about various politicians and candidates, at least sometimes you mention liberal or conservative, and
(2) When we ask you what you mean by that, you say something that isn't over-the-top wrong.

That is, you know what liberal and conservative mean and seem to use those concepts to organize your thinking about politics.

There are lots of other things that aren't crazy, though. Willingness to place themselves and others on a liberal-conservative spectrum, for example. A pattern of correlations among issue positions consistent with liberal or conservative positions.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:58 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


(TFA says that they're just using self-reported position on a liberal/conservative spectrum; I've no idea what they do with people who won't place themselves)
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:00 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Well, I suspect they're not including racism as an ideology, and that everything else flows from the base appeal to racism. If the GOP moved their party ideology away from racism, i expect that most of their voters would come along, grudgingly; if this theory is correct. Instead, the GOP has made racism a fundamental part of their strategy since the Civil Rights era, and we get what we see today.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:02 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I know there are plenty of things about Trump to make fun of besides his appearance, but something I've noticed about many of the Asian trip news photos is that his hair is all over the place.

I guess someone told him the red MAGA hats would be in bad form on an interntional trip, but why then didn't they stock up on extra hairspray?
posted by zakur at 7:07 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


If the GOP moved their party ideology away from racism, i expect that most of their voters would come along, grudgingly

They would not. This is exactly what happened with the pre-civil rights era Democrats. Their voters left, became Republicans and Republicans at first grudgingly accepted them and tried to control them, until today when the racist base has fully taken over. At this point, Republicans can't leave the racists, because there would be no Republican party without racists. And if the "establishment" did try to leave, the racists are not following. Racism is the tribal signifier, the rallying cry, the founding principal. It has been for the same group of voters since the Civil War, whether they defined themselves as Southern Democrats, Southern Republicans, the Silent Majority, Reagan Democrats, Values Voters, Bush Democrats, FOX News viewers, or now Just Republicans.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:11 AM on November 10, 2017 [73 favorites]


So you're saying that if there were no party that embraced racism, they would just make their own?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:12 AM on November 10, 2017


Re the Vox article. On the tweetbox this morning paraphrased Random Dirtbag Left Guy: Democratic Party is so useless and terrible, you can't even beat a pedophile. You people [Dems] are the worst!

Which is wrong on every level. Supporting a pedophile is on the heads of the people who support a pedophile. It's the tribalism of Republicans that is causing this. I'm not sure what Democrats can do at this point to break through in tribally Republican areas, but turning the DNC into the DSA is not going to be the silver bullet these people seem to think it would be. To a statistically significant number of Americans (30% of voters? Ish? But not evenly distributed), ideology doesn't matter. Issues don't matter. Morality doesn't matter. Nothing matters but the (R) next to the name. Unless some socialists want to infiltrate the Republican party as sleepers (not necessarily a bad idea!), Democrats can only gain at the margins, they can't penetrate the tribally-affiliated no matter what they say or do or how much of a bear hug they give Bernie.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:14 AM on November 10, 2017 [36 favorites]


The thing that popular-press versions of arguments like Kinder and Kalmoe, or Achen and Bartels' Democracy for Realists (which again I'm only familiar with through summaries) miss is this:

It's easy to push this into partisan affiliations being this ungrounded thing, just a fundamentally nonrational attachment for no good reason with nothing more behind it than shirts versus skins. But this isn't so. The partisan attachments of different social groups reflect long-standing patterns of support from the parties and long-lasting efforts to give those groups things that they want and make those groups feel like they're valued.

African-Americans might not be any more ideological than anglos, but they didn't so overwhelmingly become Democrats just for no reason or as dumb luck. They became Democrats in the two big waves in the 30s and 60s because Democrats helped them.. Likewise white evangelicals and the GOP, or white racists and the GOP.

Party ID is slow to change, and people can and do retain party IDs that don't serve them well as partisan positions change. But the patterns of partisan attachments we observe still (mostly) make a lot of sense given what the parties have done for them lately. It still seems true that party ID, not ideology or policy positions, is the main driver of mass political behavior, but that doesn't mean that party ID doesn't have some solid foundations under it.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:15 AM on November 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


So you're saying that if there were no party that embraced racism, they would just make their own?

Like the Dixiecrats.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:15 AM on November 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


So you're saying that if there were no party that embraced racism, they would just make their own?

Yes. You can see it happening right now as they oust Flake, Corker, etc and embrace Infowars, Russian White Supremacy, and Roy Moore.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:20 AM on November 10, 2017 [16 favorites]


So you're saying that if there were no party that embraced racism, they would just make their own?

That, or they'd go with the least not-racist party until that party started getting more and more racist representation. Sound familiar?
posted by Rykey at 7:23 AM on November 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


So you're saying that if there were no party that embraced racism, they would just make their own?

Your comment to God's Recent Activity page! I'm really really hoping the deplorables get so high on their own supply that they try to go it alone, the Democrats and remaining Republicans reshuffling into a further left party and a center right party while the MAGAhats quarantine themselves into a nasty little rump party of horrible jackasses would be a pretty great outcome for all of this.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:25 AM on November 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


they'd go with the least not-racist party until that party started getting more and more racist representation.

Not to abuse edit: I didn't mean to say "until," exactly, as in "they'd support the party 'until' the party were more racist." They'd definitely stay on. Go ahead and kick in anytime you're ready, coffee...
posted by Rykey at 7:27 AM on November 10, 2017


Re the Vox article. On the tweetbox this morning paraphrased Random Dirtbag Left Guy: Democratic Party is so useless and terrible, you can't even beat a pedophile. You people [Dems] are the worst!

Which is wrong on every level. [...]


This comment assumes that your average rose-emoji-in-the-display-name wants to flip Republican voters to the Democratic column. In my experience, this type really wants to boost turnout among non-voters and flip them to the Democratic column, and if the tactics necessary to do that cause some Republican voters to stay home, hurting the Republican margins, then that's a nice bonus. I agree that left-wing policy isn't a silver bullet for campaigners, especially in a country where, for decades, anything left of the status quo has been demonized as the first step to collectivization famines, but I think it's worth integrating into the party's strategy as a whole.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:29 AM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


why are you long duk donging yourself?

During the next regularly scheduled "political threads and the people who frequent them suck" MeTa, someone please remind me to quote this as something that singlehandedly makes the whole enterprise worth it. Plus, you know, hanging with and learning from you maniacs.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:31 AM on November 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


So you're saying that if there were no party that embraced racism, they would just make their own?

viz. The American Independent Party, which nominated the unapologetic white supremacist George Wallace in the 1968 presidential election and the staunch segregationist Lester Maddox in 1972, but which cross-nominated Donald Trump in 2016.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:39 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Pair that message with Statehood ( deeds, not words! ) , and I think it's a slam-dunk.

The last few statehood referenda have had problems. I wouldn't take it for granted that this is something that they want.

But aside from making a serious attempt at rebuilding the physical infrastructure, if it is possible the federal government should assume their debt. What's your name, man?!? Alexander Hamilton! I don't know essentially anything about finance, but I would guess that this would please bondholders as well considering the relative financial stability of the U.S. government vs. the P.R. government.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:56 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


iirc, ideology was originally a Marxist concept, denoting the belief systems associated with "false consciousness" (now you have two problems.....)
posted by thelonius at 8:00 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


John Ehrenreich, Slate: Why Conservatives Are More Susceptible To Believing In Lies:
Conservatives’ greater acceptance of hierarchy and trust in authority may lead to greater faith that what the president says must be true, even when the “facts” would seem to indicate otherwise...Similarly, greater valuation of stability, greater sensitivity to the possibility of danger, and greater difficulty tolerating difference and change lead to greater anxiety about social change and so support greater credulity with respect to lurid tales of the dangers posed by immigrants.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:10 AM on November 10, 2017 [18 favorites]


So he married a 23 year old when he was 37. Nothing significant there. Just did the calculations so that you don't have to.

Isn't the accepted formula: Creepy if ((Older age)/2 + 7) > (Younger age)? That would be 25.5 > 23 so blnCreepy = Yes
posted by achrise at 8:13 AM on November 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


So he married a 23 year old when he was 37. Nothing significant there. Just did the calculations so that you don't have to.

But, if you subtract her age to win he was 32 and hitting on 14-year-olds, she was 18. The same age as one of the young women who said he propositioned her. It just demonostrates a pattern that he preferred women who were a certain age in relation to him. Still think it's creepy.
posted by teleri025 at 8:18 AM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


I know there are plenty of things about Trump to make fun of besides his appearance, but something I've noticed about many of the Asian trip news photos is that his hair is all over the place.

One of my petty yet significant pleasures is observing people trolling him by taking and publishing bad photos of him. I remember seeing Pete Souza's Obama pictures and thinking they were crafted with such affection and love. Nearly every picture of Trump looks like it should have 'We hate you.' as the caption.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 8:25 AM on November 10, 2017 [27 favorites]


Sure wish the mainstream media would do the same thing, A Terrible Llama!
posted by Melismata at 8:29 AM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


I only just realized that Trump is in Vietnam on Veterans Day, so I'm keeping an eye on the news for any superb gaffes.

Nothing so far, but there are pictures of Trump and President Tran in identical shirts and it's amazing. I wonder how they convinced him to go along with it.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:54 AM on November 10, 2017


I wonder how they convinced him to go along with it.

The APEC "silly" shirt photo is a thing. They probably told Trump that it was something that Obama didn't like.
posted by peeedro at 9:12 AM on November 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


Conservatives’ greater acceptance of hierarchy and trust in authority may lead to greater faith that what the president says must be true

I still need to read that article (I know, I know), but the posted blurb doesn't really ring true for me. Why wouldn't Republicans' "acceptance of hierarchy and trust in authority" apply to hierarchies and authorities in journalism, science, and political analysis? They're picking which hierarchies and authorities to accept for reasons that seem psychologically, emotionally, or socially satisfying for them in particular ways.
posted by Rykey at 9:43 AM on November 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


> Papadopoulos lied to FBI in "an apparent case of blind loyalty to protect Donald Trump,” ABC News reports, and is “upset the man he tried to protect is now trying to distance himself.”

If Trump watched The Dead Zone he'd get to the part where the evil politician uses a baby as a human shield and think it was the smart play.
posted by The Card Cheat at 9:44 AM on November 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


Hi again I am your friendly neighborhood ventilator-dependent quadriplegic here to drop some science on you people because Kathleen Hartnett-White and her ilk are dangerous idiots. I once went into respiratory failure and nearly died from CO2 poisoning. When you have a neuromuscular disease and your muscles can no longer breathe effectively, CO2 builds up in your bloodstream. That CO2 constricts the blood flow to your brain, directly affecting your cognition. (Adding supplemental oxygen actually makes this worse because it makes you breathe more shallowly.) Your kidneys try to take over the job of filtering out the CO2, so then you might go into kidney failure as well. I spent 5 weeks in the ICU stabilizing.

I suspect Republicans have not been considering the long-term effects of increased CO2 on the cognition and health of human beings. I suppose they think we can all just install CO2 scrubbers in our homes and live like we're on Apollo 13? So when some supposed scientist like Kathleen Hartnett-White says some dumbass thing like CO2 is the gas of life, I suspect she's getting high on her own supply.
posted by Soliloquy at 9:47 AM on November 10, 2017 [101 favorites]


Isn't the accepted formula: Creepy if ((Older age)/2 + 7) > (Younger age)? That would be 25.5 > 23 so blnCreepy = Yes

I prefer the less mathy version which is "don't make sexual advances to minors".
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 9:48 AM on November 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


David Savage, LA Times: Trump judge nominee, 36, who has never tried a case, wins approval of Senate panel

Brett J. Talley, President Trump’s nominee to be a federal judge in Alabama, has never tried a case, was unanimously rated “not qualified” by the American Bar Assn.’s judicial rating committee, has practiced law for only three years and, as a blogger last year, displayed a degree of partisanship unusual for a judicial nominee, denouncing “Hillary Rotten Clinton” and pledging support for the National Rifle Assn.

On Thursday, the Senate Judiciary Committee, on a party-line vote, approved him for a lifetime appointment to the federal bench.


Talley is a 36-year old fascist blogger. With modern medical technology and assuming (thereby making an ass of you and...ming?) the continuity of the USA, he'll be fucking up the state of Alabama for SIXTY YEARS.

The following senators voted to confirm. They are all unforgivable traitors, no matter what mouthnoises they make about Trump between games of golf with him.

Chuck Grassley (R - IA)
Orrin G. Hatch (R - UT)
Lindsey Graham (R - SC)
John Cornyn (R - TX)
Michael S. Lee (R - UT)
Ted Cruz (R - TX)
Ben Sasse (R - NE)
Jeff Flake (R - AZ)
Mike Crapo (R - ID)
Thom Tillis (R - NC)
John Kennedy (R - LA)
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:48 AM on November 10, 2017 [88 favorites]


Hahaha, Sasse and Flake. Fuckers.
posted by Justinian at 9:50 AM on November 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


Conservatives’ greater acceptance of hierarchy and trust in authority may lead to greater faith that what the president says must be true

I still need to read that article (I know, I know), but the posted blurb doesn't really ring true for me. Why wouldn't Republicans' "acceptance of hierarchy and trust in authority" apply to hierarchies and authorities in journalism, science, and political analysis? They're picking which hierarchies and authorities to accept for reasons that seem psychologically, emotionally, or socially satisfying for them in particular ways.


I prefer this formulation which answers your questions I think:

Conservatives are authoritarian sheep.
posted by chris24 at 9:53 AM on November 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


Ok, a tiny glimmer of good news:

NYT: More than 600,000 people signed up last week for health insurance under the Affordable Care Act, significantly beating the pace of prior years as consumers defied President Trump’s assertion that the marketplace was collapsing. ... Republican attacks on the Affordable Care Act appear to be fortifying support for the law.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:55 AM on November 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


The following senators voted to confirm.
...
John Cornyn (R - TX)


Looks like it's time for my daily affirmation:
Another day, another time I'm embarrassed by one of my two wretched senators.
posted by marshmallow peep at 1:12 PM on November 9

posted by marshmallow peep at 9:56 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


> I'm embarrassed by one of my two wretched senators.

Did you miss
Ted Cruz (R - TX)
on the list, or is he so far out there that you're no longer embarrassed by what he does?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:00 AM on November 10, 2017


chris24: Let's see... Is authoritarianism psychologically, emotionally, or socially satisfying for conservatives? Yep, checks out. Cheers.
posted by Rykey at 10:01 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I like this article from Katie McDonough in Splinter News:
The Republican tax proposal isn’t bad because it explodes the deficit or because of some hypothetical debt burden being given to your phantom grandchildren—or even because some middle class families will pay more in taxes. It is bad because the things being paid for with this debt and with these tax increases only benefit extremely wealthy individuals and corporations.

Democrats may feel very clever for hoisting House Republicans on their own fiscal hawk petard, but this argument undermines the things they can and should be saying in defense of more robust social and economic programs that will benefit everyone. Because those things will cost money.
[...]
It is bad to drive up the deficit and raise taxes on middle class families in order to give obscenely wealthy people and corporations trillions in tax cuts; it is bad to drive up the deficit and raise taxes on middle class families over growing healthcare costs; it is bad to drive up the deficit and raise taxes on middle class families to pay for endless wars. But it is not bad to drive up the deficit and raise taxes on middle class families while building out public infrastructure that helps millions of people and reduces needless death, poverty, and general suffering.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 10:05 AM on November 10, 2017 [17 favorites]


Did you miss
Ted Cruz (R - TX)


Goddammit. I *did* miss that. Not surprised a single bit!
posted by marshmallow peep at 10:09 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Rohrabacher finally in the sights. Git 'im, Mueller! GIT 'IM!

Mueller Probing Pre-Election Flynn Meeting with Pro-Russia Congressman

Investigators for Special Counsel Robert Mueller are questioning witnesses about an alleged September 2016 meeting between Mike Flynn, who later briefly served as President Donald Trump’s national security adviser, and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, a staunch advocate of policies that would help Russia, two sources with knowledge of the investigation told NBC News.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:17 AM on November 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


Creepy if ((Older age)/2 + 7) > (Younger age)

This is the creepy formula that creepy guys offer when they want to creep on younger women. This is the midlife crisis, red corvette and divorce formula. It's like the patriarchy in math form.
posted by dis_integration at 10:18 AM on November 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


My formula is "if you have to ask, it's creepy."
posted by VTX at 10:20 AM on November 10, 2017 [20 favorites]


Okay, I'll get on my high horse here. From my previous comment, some feel as though it is creepy for a 37 year old man to marry a 23 year old woman. The difference here is that she is an adult. To say that it is creepy for a 23 year old woman to marry a 37 year old man is infantilizing women.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 10:22 AM on November 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


I haven't seen this Twitter thread posted yet, but it's very interesting.
We should probably talk about how there is a segment of evangelicalism and homeschool culture where the only thing Roy Moore did wrong was initiating sexual contact outside of marriage. 14 year old girls courting adult men isn't entirely uncommon. - Kathryn Brightbill
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 10:26 AM on November 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


Libby Anne, an escapee from fundamentalist quiverfull culture, writes about Child Brides, Teenage Sluts, and Roy Moore.
posted by hydropsyche at 10:28 AM on November 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


Came up in the dedicated Moore thread.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:29 AM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


I'm the product of a 28 year old marrying a 20 year old. I'm OK with that.

That said, the actual formula in the US seems to be that "if you're rich, anything legal is socially OK."

I sometimes wonder how much nasty Louis CK level stuff is ignored on the right, since it seems to be the case now that if you're not cheating on your wife or getting with a man, it has to be on the level of straight up pedophilia territory to even have an effect, and that even people on that level will still be defended by the right.
posted by bootlegpop at 10:29 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


I’m sitting in the theater at work. Al Franken is scheduled to take the stage in half an hour. People were bemused at me going down to find a seat an hour early, but it’s already standing room only.
posted by Autumnheart at 10:30 AM on November 10, 2017 [21 favorites]


lalex: "It's creepy - about the guy, not the woman - when it's part of a pattern of only being emotionally or sexually attracted to women significantly emotionally and sexually younger than you."

Which is why, contra to VTX's blanket assertion above, we should always interrogate our personal relationships to understand if we are creeps. The person with privilege in the relationship needs to put it on themselves to watch the power dynamics.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:31 AM on November 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


"Will they ever share a tens digit?" seemed like a good-enough response until we got all productively introspective about things.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:34 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


My train of thought just snapped from frustrating: "There are so many posts on sexual assaults, there's so much cross-over, I don't know where to post this comment" to utter sadness: "There are so many posts on sexual assaults".
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 10:40 AM on November 10, 2017 [26 favorites]


Flynn’s Alleged Kidnapping Plan – Talking Points Memo (Josh Marshall):
I don’t know the law well enough to know how far along you need to get in discussions, how many overt acts you have to take before criminal conspiracy laws kick in. I suspect it's pretty early.
The answer is one. One overt acts.
posted by shenderson at 10:48 AM on November 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


I have to say, I hope they get Flynn on the kidnapping - if it's true, he wanted to hand over a basically liberal cleric to a repressive regime to be jailed or killed in exchange for for money from the regime. You don't have to be the world's biggest Gulen fan to see the basic shape of the situation.
posted by Frowner at 10:52 AM on November 10, 2017 [23 favorites]


CHECK OUT GOPPP TAPE
posted by kirkaracha at 10:53 AM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


@Nate_Cohn (NYT)
"Foreign agents ran the Trump campaign and Trump national security team" seems both politically damaging and easy to understand. A lot easier than Russian collusion. A lot easier than Clinton emails, too.
posted by chris24 at 10:54 AM on November 10, 2017 [29 favorites]


To say that it is creepy for a 23 year old woman to marry a 37 year old man is infantilizing women.

BULLSHIT. Maturity is not a binary; there is no age when one becomes magically “fair game,” because life experience is a kind of power, and what makes any sexual relationship creepy is an inherent unequal power dynamic.

You’re damn right a 37 year old dating a 23 year old is creepy. It’s creepy as fuck. And men like Roy Moore like it because they like that there’s an inherently unequal power dynamic. That’s a goddamn feature to them.

Ew ew ew ew ew.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:55 AM on November 10, 2017 [24 favorites]


I think that when it comes down to it, humans are just too complicated for there to actually be a hard and fast rule about age differentials. But if you need to ask someone else to make sure you're not a creep, it's at the very least a big red flag that you need to ask yourself some hard questions.
posted by VTX at 10:58 AM on November 10, 2017 [7 favorites]


The answer is one. One overt acts.

Dude is going to jail.

Where is my cake
posted by schadenfrau at 10:59 AM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


Re T appointing crazyfolks to lifetime judicial appointments: can something actually be done about that down the line? If they do something really outrageous, can't they be disbarred or something?
posted by Melismata at 11:06 AM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Nate Cohn and the RCP guy both say that if they were betting men they'd be buying the heck out of "Democrats to take control of the Senate in 2018" in the betting markets right now. That doesn't necessarily mean they think the Democrats will do it, only that their chances are undervalued at current levels. Still very interesting. Cohn strikes me as a guy who knows what he is talking about.
posted by Justinian at 11:06 AM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Why wouldn't Republicans' "acceptance of hierarchy and trust in authority" apply to hierarchies and authorities in journalism, science, and political analysis?

Easy: because there’s no hierarchy there. Even among those of us who are “well informed voters”, there is no Categorical Hierarchy of Which Scientists To Trust Most, or Which Journalists Are Best. There are too many competitors to have an objectively accepted hierarchy. That’s why “Fox News Is Good, Everything Else Is Trash” works - not because it’s /correct/, but because it provides a clear hierarchy of value. Science, journalism, and political analysis rely specifically on the idea that no one is on top with their received wisdom - anyone can be right at any time.
posted by corb at 11:07 AM on November 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


Melismata: "Re T appointing crazyfolks to lifetime judicial appointments: can something actually be done about that down the line? If they do something really outrageous, can't they be disbarred or something?"

They could be impeached. This doesn't happen very often at all, but then this guy seems like he's pretty sure to do something egregious.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:15 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


So, this is not a good headline. In fact, what's the very opposite of good here?

NYT: Baffling Events in Lebanon Are Fueling Anxiety in the Mideast

The case of the missing Lebanese prime minister, who flew to Saudi Arabia to announce his resignation, is threatening to become a flash point in the struggle for power in the Middle East.
The Iranian-backed militia Hezbollah said the Saudis were holding him against his will, while the Saudis have said there was a plot to assassinate him.
This is, again, Saudi Arabia, where the crown prince was last seen ruthlessly consolidating power (last week? Or was that still this week?) after palling around in late night sessions with boy wonder Jared.
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:19 AM on November 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


I'm starting to think that #45 humiliating Abe, and kowtowing to Xi is all meant as a shiny distraction from the hell about to break loose in the Middle East.

Things are getting ugly fast, we have a lot of soldiers and trillions in equipment in Qatar, which is STILL blockaded by the Saudis. A famine in Yemen, also due to Saudi interference is worsening by the day. Fox News just released a story saying that the USAF is claiming the missile fired at Saudi a few days ago was from Iran. Oil prices are half market predictions, and that's making oil-rich economies with big armies a little twitchy. It just so happens that there are multiple sides with very large armies, and none of them like each other. A leaked cable showed Israel told diplomats to support Saudi Arabia's war of words with Iran and Lebanese group Hezbollah.

The Prime Minister of Lebanon disappearing in Saudi is worrisome in multiple directions, and could set off wars amongst various sects in multiple countries. The US is pressuring Jordan to allow Israeli flyovers, which would likely inflame the millions of Palestinians who were forced into Jordan, and Jordan is already struggling trying to support a population that has doubled because of migration.

It is a hot mess. The State Department is shedding career diplomats like water off a duck. We will soon have nobody qualified to deal with any of this. The Republicans have sold the entire world out for 30 silver.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:33 AM on November 10, 2017 [63 favorites]


NYT: Baffling Events in Lebanon Are Fueling Anxiety in the Mideast

From yesterday's State Department Press Briefing:
MS NAUERT: Okay. So I addressed the part of U.S. citizens who may be there. I want to mention that our charge d’affaires, who’s serving in Saudi Arabia – his name is Chris Henzel – he met with Prime Minister Hariri yesterday, so had a chance to speak with him. I cannot provide you with a readout of that conversation or any specifics of it, but we have seen him. In terms of the conditions of him being held or the conversations between Saudi Arabia and the Prime Minister Hariri, I would have to refer you to the Government of Saudi Arabia and also to Mr. Hariri’s office.

QUESTION: Sorry. You said the conditions of him being held. Is he in detention?

MS NAUERT: Well, I’m not going to put that word – I’m not going to associate that word with it. But where he is right now --

QUESTION: Where is he? Does he have a nice room at the Ritz Carlton? (Laughter.)

MS NAUERT: I can’t – I don’t know personally where he is.

QUESTION: Or is he at another --

MS NAUERT: I’ve heard different reports; I can’t confirm where he is. But where he is right now --

QUESTION: Well, where did the charge meet him?

MS NAUERT: He met him – I don’t think I’m --

QUESTION: Don’t say he --

MS NAUERT: I don’t think I’m permitted to say that, but I will double-check on that.
So the press secretary slips up and describes the Lebanese prime minister as being "held," which he obviously is, acknowledges that we met with him, and has absolutely nothing to say about where he is, why the Prime Minister of Lebanon is not in Lebanon, why our officials are meeting with him, or anything else about what's going on. In a normal world, that would all be a pretty big deal.
posted by zachlipton at 11:39 AM on November 10, 2017 [60 favorites]


Re T appointing crazyfolks to lifetime judicial appointments: can something actually be done about that down the line? If they do something really outrageous, can't they be disbarred or something?

Impeachment or resignation. I dream of a post-45 truth and reconciliation months long impeachment party, which, if it went on long enough, would inspire a whole bunch of resignations.

Cleanse everything of the fruit of the poisoned tree. Use the purple stuff. And brillo.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:43 AM on November 10, 2017 [14 favorites]


New details on Cambridge Analytica reaching out to Wikileaks.

WSJ: Data Firm’s WikiLeaks Outreach Came as It Joined Trump Campaign- Cambridge Analytica said it reached out to Julian Assange to share Hillary Clinton-related emails in ‘early June 2016,’ when the company had already started working for the campaign
When Mr. Nix’s approach to WikiLeaks was reported by The Wall Street Journal last month, it wasn’t clear whether Cambridge was working for the Trump campaign at the time. Federal Election Commission records show the first payment by the campaign to Cambridge Analytica is dated July 29, 2016.

New details about the timing of Cambridge Analytica’s Trump campaign work show that the firm’s effort to obtain the Clinton emails—which U.S. intelligence agencies later determined had been stolen by Russian intelligence and given to the Sweden-based WikiLeaks—came as the company was in the advanced stages of contract negotiations with the campaign and had already dispatched employees to help it.
posted by chris24 at 11:50 AM on November 10, 2017 [26 favorites]


Science, journalism, and political analysis rely specifically on the idea that no one is on top with their received wisdom - anyone can be right at any time.

what
posted by Rykey at 11:50 AM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


So here's Paul Manafort's business partner, Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska (they've done at least $60M of business between them), hanging out with Putin at the APEC summit in Vietnam.
posted by zachlipton at 11:57 AM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Please, can we keep the PTSD-triggering Moore stuff in the dedicated Moore thread so I can read about it when good and ready instead of reading a weird back-and-forth on a mathematical formula for creepiness, when I am just trying to catch up with the generalised POTUS45 shitshow over coffee
posted by salix at 12:06 PM on November 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


The Iranian-backed militia Hezbollah said the Saudis were holding him against his will, while the Saudis have said there was a plot to assassinate him.

When I first read about this story I immediately thought it sounded like a classic protection-racket scenario. "We have excellent intelligence confirming that ifyou don't pay us a cut of your revenue, your store will go up in flames tonight". But instead: "We have strong intel reports that if you return to Lebanon and don't resign, you'll be assassinated. *wink* *wink*"
posted by dis_integration at 12:08 PM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Some nerdy bean-counting:

29 different presidents have been elected since the Republican party existed (1856 in national elections). I didn't count Cleveland twice (not a different president) and I didn't count Ford because he was not in a national election. From that list I further dropped Chester Alan Arthur and Andrew Johnson because they became president from vice presidency but never won an election as president. Both of them served out the term of deceased president. That leaves 27.

In four instances, the loser of the popular vote was made president via the electoral college. All four instances involved selecting the Republican in electoral college over the Democrat who was the popular vote winner.

Counting by who received the most electoral college votes and became president:
17 Republicans, 10 Democrats.

If you count which party received the most popular votes.
13 Republicans, 14 Democrats.

Republicans have robbed the election four times.

*14 Republicans if you count George W. Bush's second term which he would probably never have gotten if he didn't have his first victory. The other three Republican presidents who didn't win by popular vote served one term.

**You might also put Lincoln on the list of winners who lost to Democrats. In the case of Lincoln's first term, two Democrats split the national vote and together gained more votes than Lincoln. In Lincoln's second term, he didn't run as a Republican.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:16 PM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


I mean, I get this. But to say that the parties of Tilden and Hayes were a little different from today's iterations is putting it mildly.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:20 PM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Yeah. But the Republicans of the late 1800s supported the robber barons of the day. And they robbed elections (Tilden) in a compromise which helped screw the blacks in the south.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2017


Um. Um. Um. Reuters: Exclusive: Rupert Murdoch twice discussed CNN with AT&T CEO - sources
Rupert Murdoch telephoned AT&T Inc (T.N) Chief Executive Randall Stephenson twice in the last six months and talked about cable network CNN, sources briefed on the matter told Reuters on Friday.

According to one of the sources, the 86-year-old executive chairman of Twenty-First Century Fox Inc (FOXA.O) offered to buy CNN in both conversations.

Another source said Murdoch had “zero interest” in owning CNN.
Time Warner stock spiked on the news. There need to be Congressional hearings about this yesterday.
posted by zachlipton at 12:24 PM on November 10, 2017 [37 favorites]


Saad Hariri in Saudi, again, like all things Middle East, is more complicated and tribal than it appears.

There is a complicated, negotiated power sharing agreement in Lebanon, whereby the government cannot stand unless there are representatives from the Maronite Christians, Hezbollah (primarily Shia) and the Sunni. If the Sunni PM resigns, it is for all intents like a coup, in that the government cannot function until another Sunni is put into place in that role.

However, Hariri has ties and citizenship in Saudi, so it's not like if #45 buggered off to Russia and resigned. (From my keyboard to God's ears.) Hezbollah has, during the Syrian conflict, managed a soft takeover of Lebanon by installing a Maronite President who is a Shia ally. It is quite possible that Hariri was targeted for assassination, it's how his father died.

That said; destabilization of Lebanon, given how many Syrian refugees are there, and the growing humanitarian crisis because of the war in Syria, would be disastrous on a human level. But if Hezbollah is seen by Israel to be the real power in Lebanon, the bombings will begin. If Israel bombs Lebanon, the odds arise that Iran gets involved. I'm not sure what Saudi gets out of starting a proxy war with Iran, but it clearly looks like that is beginning.

It only makes sense if you factor #45's minion Jared whispering to the Glowing Orb, and this is some weird fucking idea dreamed up by that genius factory to get even with Iran for dealing with Obama, or something. I ... I just don't know what's going on any more, as it has all lost any tethering to traditional diplomatic thinking. It's just chaos butterflies all the way down.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:27 PM on November 10, 2017 [13 favorites]


Just since WW2 we've had 7 Republican presidents. 2 stole their elections and 1 was impeached. Arguably 42% of all modern Republican administrations have been explicitly criminal, or illegitimate. And Reagan should've been impeached over Iran-Contra. When Trump is impeached that number will reach a majority of modern Republican administrations.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:29 PM on November 10, 2017 [31 favorites]


Also note that, with the exception of sitting presidents and incumbent vice presidents, no Republican has won the popular vote for the presidency since 1980.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:35 PM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


. But if Hezbollah is seen by Israel to be the real power in Lebanon, the bombings will begin. If Israel bombs Lebanon, the odds arise that Iran gets involved. I'm not sure what Saudi gets out of starting a proxy war with Iran, but it clearly looks like that is beginning.

Bibi is also facing a few tough corruption investigations and, boy, wouldn't a region wide conflict come in handy in making those disappear.
posted by PenDevil at 12:36 PM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


There's a dedicated Saudi Arabia/Middle East thread, btw.
posted by homunculus at 12:39 PM on November 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


dances_with_sneetches: "And they robbed elections (Tilden) in a compromise which helped screw the blacks in the south."

I'm open to being schooled on this, but my understanding is that the 1876 Democratic platform called for an end to Reconstruction, so I don't see black Americans necessarily better off under a Tilden administration. There was also massive suppression of the black vote in Southern states; it's entirely likely Hayes would have won the popular vote in a fair election.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:40 PM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Al Franken update: He spoke for about an hour in a question-and-answer format with the moderator, and told funny anecdotes from the book. He also spoke for a bit about the campaign and the contributions of his wife and his campaign team (many of whom had worked for Paul Wellstone before Wellstone’s death). He teared up a bit on that topic, even. Very funny and entertaining as a whole. Afterward, there was a highly organized line for getting your book signed and/or a selfie, both of which I am now the proud owner.
posted by Autumnheart at 12:42 PM on November 10, 2017 [28 favorites]


It seems a bit odd to specifically condemn the Republicans of 1876 for betraying black people by...letting the Democrats re-take power in the South. Accessories, sure. But one party is way worse than the other here. (See also the “Klanbake” DNC of 1924.)

On the other hand, the only other guy to have won the popular vote but not become President was Andrew Jackson. And he went out and founded the Democratic Party he was so mad.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:52 PM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Ryan and McConnell have changed their stories on the tax cuts.

@ThePlumLineGS (WaPo)
Important.
Paul Ryan has stopped saying "everyone" gets a tax cut under GOP plan.
He now claims this is true as an "average." (Also bogus, but put that aside.)
And Ryan's spox admits to @GlennKesslerWP that he misspoke:
Paul Ryan’s repeated claim that ‘everyone’ will get a tax cut



@jimtankersley (NYT)
NEWS via @SherylNYT: McConnell says he "misspoke" when he said no middle class fam would see a tax increase under Senate bill: Senate Tax Bill Rewards the Rich More Than the Middle Class
posted by chris24 at 12:57 PM on November 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


Yeah, that was the compromise. The Republicans got their president and the Democrats got control of the deep south. The Tilden compromise withdrew Northern troops which were all that were holding back Klannish elements. Reconstruction ended and the Jim Crow laws began (I believe 1877 is the time of the first poll tax.)
So, what Chrysostom said is basically true. The Democrats were the badder guys back then. But what I said was true also: the Republicans were underhanded and sold out their beliefs to get a Republican president.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:57 PM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


These threads get to some weird, weird places sometimes.
posted by corb at 1:01 PM on November 10, 2017 [21 favorites]




Going along with my tax post yesterday, the upper middle class (along with the lowest tax payers) would be fronting the tax cuts for the wealthiest, and they're not happy about it. The new slice is that it wouldn't just effect the "coastal elites" but the affluent enclaves that were wooed down south.

‘I don’t feel wealthy’: The upper middle class is worried about paying for the tax overhaul
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:09 PM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


We went to a focus group of N.H. Trump voters. Here’s what we learned.

Oh it's the lets talk to racists and find out their lies for voting for the racist time.
posted by Justinian at 1:14 PM on November 10, 2017 [26 favorites]


So, it's Congress' fault that Our Dear Leader can't get anything done, and it's OK to elect a man whose morals you disapprove of and you wouldn't want your children to emulate.

White supremacy and misogyny are one hell of a drug.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:15 PM on November 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


Metafilter: These threads get to some weird, weird places sometimes.
posted by uosuaq at 1:20 PM on November 10, 2017 [10 favorites]




‘I don’t feel wealthy’: The upper middle class is worried about paying for the tax overhaul

Yeah. I don't mind paying more taxes. I do mind paying more taxes so that people far richer than me can pay less.
posted by Talez at 1:22 PM on November 10, 2017 [50 favorites]


2600+ comments in and we're talking about tilden and hayes maybe it's time for a new thread
posted by lazaruslong at 1:24 PM on November 10, 2017 [8 favorites]


You know, for all his macho bluster, Pootie-Poot kinda has a Phil Collins thing going on here. Standing next to Donnie in their matching shirts I can almost hear them sing "... two hearts, believing in just one mind / You know we're two hearts believing in just one mind ..."
posted by octobersurprise at 1:26 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


See this is the thing. People under $500,000 or so, besides a prudent amount of saving with their 401k or IRA, they still spend almost all of their income on stuff. The money comes in but it goes straight back out. Economically, this isn't a problem. People in this bracket drive a massive amount of economic activity.

Compared to the 1% where the money goes in and it stays there. It doesn't come back out. It just goes on to the pile doing literally nothing. This is a massive problem. The economy is built on money moving and we continually have both less cash moving per capita and more of that cash coming from credit. We're tax cutting ourselves into financial oblivion.
posted by Talez at 1:27 PM on November 10, 2017 [38 favorites]


2600+ comments in and we're talking about tilden and hayes maybe it's time for a new thread

In the next one, we can talk about Chester Arthur!
posted by Chrysostom at 1:35 PM on November 10, 2017 [12 favorites]


See this is the thing. People under $500,000 or so, besides a prudent amount of saving with their 401k or IRA, they still spend almost all of their income on stuff. The money comes in but it goes straight back out.

Hedonic treadmills are pretty expensive.....
posted by thelonius at 1:37 PM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Yup, Talez. For every "I don't feel wealthy" person in the 25% of incomes, that's money going right back into the economy, not being socked away. If they were putting money away, they'd probably feel wealthier. All that money that goes into services, child care, fitness classes, a vacation, landscaping is all money going back into the financial ecosystem. Taxing these people, not the "luxury yacht-buying" and inheritance class is just so stupid. However, they should also be taxed A LOT more than the people making under the median salary, as clearly the stuff I mentioned above is more of the "luxury" purchases than bare food and housing.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 1:38 PM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


In the next one, we can talk about Chester Arthur!

I'm in. Chester Arthur is my favorite President. No, really, he's amazing. Everyone thought he was basically going to be Trump, but hey.. civil service reform and all that! He was actually impressed by the gravitas of the Presidency and took his job seriously.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:39 PM on November 10, 2017 [16 favorites]


Compared to the 1% where the money goes in and it stays there. It doesn't come back out. It just goes on to the pile doing literally nothing. This is a massive problem. The economy is built on money moving and we continually have both less cash moving per capita and more of that cash coming from credit. We're tax cutting ourselves into financial oblivion.

I've long asserted that if you posit that it takes money to make money, then you're really saying money acts like gravity and mass and can be understood in those terms. The economy will tend to clump and those clumps will have market distorting effects.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 1:40 PM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


I don't know Chester Arthur at all. Is there a biography that's a particularly good place to start?
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:40 PM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


There's a new one out. The New Yorker was a little snotty about it, but it still sounds pretty good.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:44 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


All I know is that in 1829, in the midst of an ever-deepening sense of prosperity, Chester Alan Arthur climbed to the top of his bedroom wall, thrust his defiance at the Javanese, and shouted, "Give me them, or I'm going over there!"
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:45 PM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


I don't know Chester Arthur at all. Is there a biography that's a particularly good place to start?

Start with the wikipedia page. If you want it in book form, there exist very few options.

There is "Gentleman Boss: The Life and Times of Chester Alan Arthur", Thomas C. Reeves (ISBN 9780-945707-035) which is pretty comprehensive, and not super dry. Recommended.

There is also Zachary Karabell's "Chester Alan Arthur", of the "American Presidents" series (ISBN 9780-805069-518) that's short and to the point. Also fine.

If you're a nutbucket, there's Emma Rogers "Chester A. Arthur: Man and President" (ISBN 9781-241655-020) which is an incredibly dry Masters thesis on him from 1921.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:49 PM on November 10, 2017 [5 favorites]


Devin Nunes attended a breakfast with Michael Flynn and Turkey's foreign minister just before the inauguration (Natasha Bertrand, Business Insider)
Nunes' attendance at the event is newly relevant amid revelations that the special counsel Robert Mueller is investigating a meeting that another congressman, Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, took with Flynn in September 2016. Flynn had begun lobbying on behalf of Turkish government interests one month earlier.
posted by Room 641-A at 1:59 PM on November 10, 2017 [26 favorites]




Oh Devin Nunes, have you been misleading us?
posted by Literaryhero at 2:03 PM on November 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


Being at risk of prosecution without a coverup is about the only explanation for Nunes' actions.
posted by chris24 at 2:20 PM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Flynn has made a statement that the kidnapping plot is false. I should note that the statement only seems to apply to Flynn and not his failson.
posted by PenDevil at 2:35 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


One could die happy knowing that someday a biography named “Gentleman Boss” would be written about you.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:38 PM on November 10, 2017 [6 favorites]


If you want a good jaw-dropping exercise I would suggest listening to todays' episode of The Daily podcast. It's an interview with Steve Bannon. He is either a deluded fool or a liar who has gotten in too deep and started to believe his own bullshit. He covers territory such as the Republican party is going to pick-up 25% of the Black and Latino vote and Donald Trump will go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents because he is so beloved. Also there are absolutely no racists or White Nationalists in the WH and DJT is "the least racist person I've ever known." He is not bombastic, in fact he talks reasonably well and in a calm fashion which makes the words coming out of his mouth even weirder.

For a podcast that might teach you something you don't already know, give Citations Needed a try. This week's episode is about how the language of Real Estate casually reveals racist and colonial attitudes. It really opened my eyes and I will never think of gentrification in the same way.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 2:41 PM on November 10, 2017 [10 favorites]


Steve Bannon is being Steve Bannon: an opportunistic grifter who will say anything to anyone at any time. The man lives to convert bullshit into energy which he uses to catalyze all the liquor.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:48 PM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


I've long asserted that if you posit that it takes money to make money, then you're really saying money acts like gravity and mass and can be understood in those terms. The economy will tend to clump and those clumps will have market distorting effects.

Welcome to the wild, woolly and wacky emerging field of econophysics!
posted by adamgreenfield at 2:49 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


W. T. FUCKING. F.

@DavidBegnaud (CBS)
“We’re out of the crisis,” says 3 star Army General Jeffrey Buchanan who’s announced today that he’s leaving next week. Buchanan has coordinated the federal military response in Puerto Rico following Hurricane Maria

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 2:52 PM on November 10, 2017 [26 favorites]


The fuck?

Didn't the power just go out again last night?

Aren't people still without food and water and shelter?
posted by elsietheeel at 2:54 PM on November 10, 2017 [19 favorites]


"Not PEOPLE."

--- umpteen guys in MAGA hats
posted by delfin at 2:57 PM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


Just today we were discussing the situation in P.R. and my husband said I was his only source of info, he never heard about P.R. from his casual news consumption. I think that it is not entertaining enough for the MSM to cover it much so Americans are kept in the dark about how bad the situation is. 10 years or so from now it will be rediscovered and books will be written about how we sat by and passively let this happen.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:03 PM on November 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


Yes...Americans are indeed being kept in the dark.
posted by uosuaq at 3:13 PM on November 10, 2017 [27 favorites]


At some point, a more realistic Maria-related death toll will come out and gain traction, and the Puerto Rico disaster will, too late, get the attention it deserves. Our government's handling of this has been a national shame.
posted by scarylarry at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2017 [15 favorites]


“We’re out of the crisis,” says 3 star Army General Jeffrey Buchanan who... has coordinated the federal military response in Puerto Rico
...meaning they have achieved military success... the civilian population has surrendered.

you're really saying money acts like gravity and mass and can be understood in those terms.
Which makes most of the Forbes Richest List into Black Holes.

If Wall Street Bankster Steve Bannon succeeds in his hostile takeover of the Republican Party, the most likely results will be 40 years of Democratic Party rule and the Koch Brothers' privately-held empire sold off to Robert Mercer ...
posted by oneswellfoop at 3:15 PM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


The Occasional Dana: NBC News: Mueller Probing Pre-Election Flynn Meeting With Pro-Russia Congressman
Investigators for Special Counsel Robert Mueller are questioning witnesses about an alleged September 2016 meeting between Mike Flynn, who later briefly served as President Donald Trump’s national security adviser, and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, a staunch advocate of policies that would help Russia, two sources with knowledge of the investigation told NBC News.

The meeting allegedly took place in Washington the evening of Sept. 20, while Flynn was working as an adviser to Trump’s presidential campaign. It was arranged by his lobbying firm, the Flynn Intel Group. Also in attendance were Flynn’s business partners, Bijan Kian and Brian McCauley, and Flynn’s son, Michael G. Flynn, who worked closely with his father, the sources said.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by notyou at 3:19 PM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


WSJ: Snag in Media Merger Stirs Tensions Over Trump-CNN Feud
Early this year, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and aide, Jared Kushner, met a top executive at CNN parent Time Warner Inc. TWX 4.08% and raised concerns about the network’s coverage of the presidential election.

Mr. Kushner told the executive, Gary Ginsberg, that CNN should fire 20% of its staff because they were so wrong in their analysis of the election and how it would turn out, people familiar with the matter say.

A White House official said Mr. Kushner didn’t intend the comment to be taken seriously, and was simply trying to make a point. Inside Time Warner, it wasn’t taken lightly.
The network that aired basically every Trump rally live, unrebutted by fact checking, and hired an endless string of morons to defend Trump? That's the one that they're attacking?
posted by zachlipton at 3:33 PM on November 10, 2017 [34 favorites]


But what has CNN done for Trump lately?
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:41 PM on November 10, 2017 [3 favorites]


If Tom Steyer's goal with making me watch his stupid ad every 10 minutes all day every day was to guarantee I never vote for him for anything, boy has he succeeded. Tom Steyer = change channel.
posted by Justinian at 3:59 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


We’re out of the crisis,” says 3 star Army General Jeffrey Buchanan who’s announced today that he’s leaving next week.

There are still CORPSES in ARMY MORGUE TENTS you fucker, what do you mean you are leaving next week? What the actual fuck?
posted by corb at 4:05 PM on November 10, 2017 [49 favorites]



Mr. Kushner told the executive, Gary Ginsberg, that CNN should fire 20% of its staff because they were so wrong in their analysis of the election and how it would turn out, people familiar with the matter say.

A White House official said Mr. Kushner didn’t intend the comment to be taken seriously, and was simply trying to make a point. Inside Time Warner, it wasn’t taken lightly.


The one saving grace of having *such* a phenomenal asshole as president is that he's got enemies on enemies and they are all looking for a place to even the score, having been forced to sit across from such thinly veiled hounds from stupid hell as Jared.

If he were any more sophisticated, or if any one of them were, they'd be hiding their tracks but they are literally so stupid they do things like this.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:22 PM on November 10, 2017 [4 favorites]


Time is unfair, otherwise a young James Spader would portray Jared in the film and it would be so easy to feel the hate for him.
posted by valkane at 4:34 PM on November 10, 2017 [9 favorites]


So. Much. Winning.

@ZekeJMiller (AP)
DANANG, Vietnam (AP) - Trade ministers from 11 Pacific Rim countries say they have reached basic agreement on trade pact without US.
posted by chris24 at 4:50 PM on November 10, 2017 [40 favorites]


I just realized that Johnstown, in PA, of the recent stories, is the same place a friend of mine grew up. She was ultra-lefty and full of stories of a leftist presence there. Small world.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 4:57 PM on November 10, 2017 [1 favorite]


Didn't Canada cruel that by Trudeau not turning up?

Thank you, Canada. Call me old fashioned, but anything negotiated in secret where the people involved go out of their way to prevent you finding out the details, is automatically bad.

The TPP is like the Manus Island Detention Centre of trade deals…
posted by Pinback at 4:57 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


Let me fix the end of that Esquire article about Flynn:
Some day, one of these people is going to get up at a podium and bite the head off a live chickenbrown person.
Honestly, biting the head off a chicken is far too pedestrian for any of these evil fucks.
posted by Brak at 5:11 PM on November 10, 2017




Time is unfair, otherwise a young James Spader would portray Jared in the film and it would be so easy to feel the hate for him.

Michael Cera was born for the role!
posted by jason_steakums at 6:09 PM on November 10, 2017 [11 favorites]


🍰🍿
posted by petebest at 6:28 PM on November 10, 2017 [2 favorites]


oh god there's four political or politics-adjacent threads now, then? This must be how Donald Trump felt when he realized there were like 200 countries
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:01 PM on November 10, 2017 [32 favorites]


This is the longest I haven't seen a comment since the election. I hope that this is where outrage turns into action rather than normalization. The VA results are the first real results I have seen. The constant outrage that led to investigations and indictments helped this along.

David Brooks did the PBS gambit this evening. My partner caught it on the news while I made it home in time to catch the toad on Charlie Rose. He went on: our taxes are so high, they are bad but I (having taught a class on morality) understand Lois CK et al but in a condemny sort of way. What an utter waste of airtime. Fuck PBS tonight for putting that dolt on screen for hours. Fuck Charlie Rose for letting the man speak disinformation without interjecting facts, and fuck you for reading this comment in the middle of the god damn American night!
posted by dagosto at 12:33 AM on November 11, 2017 [2 favorites]


This is the longest I haven't seen a comment since the election.

There's a new thread.
posted by thelonius at 1:29 AM on November 11, 2017 [6 favorites]


Well let's all go to the new thread then and have some wine and maybe some sponge cake!
posted by dagosto at 9:50 AM on November 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


Putin in [sic] ‘insulted’ by accusations of election meddling, Trump says

The president* seems to have a new gig as the Kremlin's press secretary.

Also, I note that the dateline on the AP story is Hanoi, so next time the issue of bone spurs comes up, he can state tweet truthfully:
I WENT TO VIETNAM!!! Don't believe the fake news that says I stayed home #CNN #MSNBC
posted by ricochet biscuit at 11:15 AM on November 11, 2017 [1 favorite]


NEW THREAD
posted by christopherious at 2:05 PM on November 11, 2017


If Tom Steyer's goal with making me watch his stupid ad every 10 minutes all day every day was to guarantee I never vote for him for anything, boy has he succeeded. Tom Steyer = change channel.

I think his goal is just to normalize the idea of impeaching Trump. "Impeachment: apply directly to the forehead!"
posted by homunculus at 4:37 PM on November 11, 2017 [5 favorites]


I’m Australian and couldn’t vote in your election...She didn’t excite me as a voter

I'm not following this.
posted by bongo_x at 3:05 PM on November 12, 2017


But this deifying of HC is basically ignoring the facts of history.

Saying this is basically ignoring the effect of systemic misogyny on her candidacy and her entire public life. In response to a comment that pointed out that exact fact. In a cultural moment when the widespread abuse and oppression of women in the workplace is being exposed to sunlight. Some of the exact people who beat the drums of how singularly awful Hillary was have since been exposed as chronic sexual harassers. So sorry she didn't excite you.
posted by Mavri at 3:12 PM on November 12, 2017 [10 favorites]


Mod note: Yadda yadda "relitigating the primaries", y'all know the drill. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 3:33 PM on November 12, 2017


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