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November 9, 2017 12:54 PM   Subscribe

“Of course Mario isn’t a plumber, or at least not just a plumber. Because professionally speaking, Mario wears many hats. He’s a doctor. He’s the lead in a mariachi band. He’s a building inspector. He’s eager to fill whatever role the occasion calls for. Super Mario Odyssey expands on Mario’s chameleon-esque nature by giving him a new, all-encompassing ability: the power to take over and control other characters and enemies by tossing his hat upon their noggin. So now, with the zip of his cap, Mario is also a Goomba. Or a Bullet Bill. Or a strange woodland creature that can extend its legs to reach untold heights. Or a stylish statue with the ability to see invisible platforms.” [YouTube][Game Trailer] [via: Polygon]

• “One of the most daring and influential game designs of all time...” [Eurogamer]
“So there's both freshness and nostalgia to be found in Odyssey, which resurfaces a dormant mutation of Mario, only previously seen in full effect in 2002's Super Mario Sunshine and 1996's epochal Super Mario 64. This Mario is defined by open, 'sandbox' levels stuffed with secrets and multiple goals that do not necessarily need to be attempted in order, but that sometimes change the context of the level when you complete them. Odyssey expands this structure without fundamentally altering it. After so long away, it feels refreshing and startlingly modern in its freedom, just like Breath of the Wild - and yet this approach was nailed by Shigeru Miyamoto, in his first attempt at designing games in 3D, over 20 years ago. If anything, Odyssey serves to underline just how radical a design Super Mario 64 was - and still is.”
• “Odyssey is a love letter to that Nintendo 64 classic,” [Game Informer]
“The entire experience centers on the concept of discovery. Mario is typically known for platforming, but Odyssey is more about the freedom of exploration, and letting players plot their own course through over a dozen sizeable worlds. The open-ended design works well, as destinations and secrets are almost always just a jump away. To reach one area, you may need to chain together a specific series of moves with perfect timing, whereas another area may be reachable from numerous vectors. In embracing player ingenuity, Odyssey makes you feel clever – an empowering part of the experience that doesn’t diminish at any point during play. Journeying through this game is a string of “I can’t believe that worked” and “That’s how you get up there!” moments. Mario is still fleet of foot and challenged to a variety of linear platforming exercises along the way, but the bulk of the experience is becoming a treasure hunter to find over 800 moons – a staggering number of collectibles. ”
• “Odyssey’s collectables feel like an integral part of the experience of exploring.” [The Verge]
“That’s because the feedback loop of exploring Odyssey's wonderfully animated and varied worlds, finding a strange corner or odd glimmer, and digging into a puzzle is just so compelling. Instead of players wandering around, trying to find collectibles, every moon in Odyssey feels placed with care. Some moons are simple, awarded after simple platforming or upon reaching certain checkpoints. You can even buy many from stores. But others are devilishly complicated, like a puzzle where I had to carefully goad a Piranha Plant into chucking fireballs at me, then dodge so it would light a pair of torches instead. There’s also another moon, which required me to carefully to carry a seed across the entirety of the ocean to a friendly farmer by a lighthouse, possess a nearby octopus to shoot a jet of water onto it, which caused a plant to grow and a moon to pop out. This is actually one of Super Mario Odyssey’s more normal tasks.”
• “...your goal is to unmask complexity behind simplicity.” [Waypoint]
“Using the game's myriad tools, your goal is to unmask complexity behind simplicity. It might be as simple as turning the camera in the right direction, revealing a hidden path, or a series of special coins at the top of a tree. It might require you taking a leap of faith and fall off the edge of a cliff, betting something is waiting at the bottom. Often, you'll just bumble into solutions, the result of chaotic experimentation. The sheer amount of moons for players to gather means every idea is on the table, and any corner of the map might be part of a larger puzzle, just one that you haven't put together yet. One of your primary tools is the goofy (and very much alive) hat on Mario's head, whose primary function is allowing you to, in the words of the game, "capture" things around you, imbuing whatever's "captured" with Mario, as well. More importantly, you're granted access to some of their abilities. ”
• “Just what makes Super Mario Odyssey so delightful to play?” [Kotaku]
“I think there are 900-something total moons. Some of them you can find casually, randomly hidden in fields or you’ll just stumble upon them accidentally. Some of them are hidden behind elaborate secrets. And discovering them all is such a joy—it’s so delightful to be wandering and exploring and taking your time and systematically going through. I find it enjoyable in a way that collecting Korok Seeds in Zelda is not. Mainly because collecting Korok Seeds in Zelda, after the first few dozen or hundred, felt like doing the same thing over and over again. There are only so many times you can find a ball and put it inside of a well, or find a strange looking rock and hey there’s a Korok Seed under it. The moons in Odyssey just never stop feeling fun to collect and rewarding. Basically, I never 100% games but I’m strongly considering trying to 100% Mario, because it’s that much fun to play.”
posted by Fizz (52 comments total) 20 users marked this as a favorite
 
I find it enjoyable in a way that collecting Korok Seeds in Zelda is not. Mainly because collecting Korok Seeds in Zelda, after the first few dozen or hundred, felt like doing the same thing over and over again

So much This. I accidentally defeated Ganon in BotW (seriously; I stumbled upon the chamber and the fight wasn't difficult enough to deter me) and although I've kept playing -- there really is plenty to see -- hunting for Korok seeds is really low on the list. The world is beautiful and immersive and fun to explore, but collecting the collectibles isn't interesting at all.

Collecting moons in Super Mario Odyssey, however, is a shit-ton of fun. I find myself frustrated by some of the gameplay -- I don't do 3D platforming particularly well, so I'm finding some of the jumpy puzzles sort of difficult -- but there's so much variety in the puzzles, and so many reasons to chase down the power moons, that the whole thing is just a really joyful experience.
posted by uncleozzy at 1:07 PM on November 9 [2 favorites]


It really is great. The gameplay feels like Galaxy while the environments feel like Sunshine. I beat Bowser and rescued Peach this week with I think 175 Moons, and I'm delighted to have the ridiculous disposable story behind me so I can be free to pursue the other 800+ Moons.

The single strangest thing I saw Capped was a giant slab of beef. Huge. And when you cap something, it wears your hat and takes on Mario's mustache. So, a giant slab of beef with a tiny hat on top and a tiny mustache on the front.
posted by rlk at 1:10 PM on November 9 [11 favorites]


“...your goal is to unmask complexity behind simplicity.”

The waypoint article really gets to it. It's a simple enough idea to just find a moon and there are lots of them to find, and yet I'm never bored. There is so much variety. You can jump off of your hat that you've just thrown. You can possess a T-Rex to smash a block to expose a pipe that transforms you into a 2D mario and now you're side-scrolling like old school. Or you fall off the edge and in the process discover a hidden path you missed.

There's always something cool to discover and yet everything is based on very simple mechanics. Jumping, running, hat-throwing. Some combination of those is going to help you play in this world. I'm loving it.
posted by Fizz at 1:21 PM on November 9 [3 favorites]


The Hat was Mario all along, and the guy we thought was a plumber was really just the latest host in a long history of unfortunate souls.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 1:26 PM on November 9 [16 favorites]


I don't think it's necessary to disparage Korok seed hunting in order to praise power moon collecting. Power moons are about solving puzzles within relatively small spaces. The puzzles themselves are varied and interesting, and they're all about utilizing the skills you've learned in new ways, or seeking out a new perspective on a level. Korok seeds are usually not about the puzzle itself, which, yes, often is a variation on "make the trees all look similar" or "put the rock in the well". Korok seeds are about a vast, vast open world landscape, littered with hidden collectibles. When you reach a good vantage point and can really take in your surroundings, are you just looking for shrine locations and other obvious points of interest? Or are you also keenly searching for things that look just a little bit *off*, and marking them on your map? Because 9 times out of 10, marking those places and then wandering towards them and seeing what's going on is rewarded with a Korok seed. The seeds encourage you to look at *everything* in a very very big playing field as a possible source of mystery and excitement. They take exploration and unstructured play in Zelda to a level that the Skyrims of the world can't begin to touch. That's the joy of Korok seed hunting to me.
posted by naju at 1:26 PM on November 9 [13 favorites]


To be accurate, he started out as a construction worker (some say carpenter, but those are clearly metal girders) and later dabbled in pharmacy.

(really wish i had a Switch because Mario 64 is the best)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 1:28 PM on November 9 [2 favorites]


Odyssey is probably going to make me buy a Switch. I have a long flight coming up next month, too, which is a heck of a justification...

Not to be missed is this excellent Game Maker's Toolkit video on the ways that Odyssey gets so much variety out of a single core mechanic.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:39 PM on November 9 [9 favorites]


Thanks for linking that tobascodagama. I was searching for it. And it was kind of what I was referring to with my comment up above. Building a world around a simple mechanic 'Jump' and taking it as far as you can. Instead of cramming a game with all kinds of extra things: crafting mechanic, in game currency, multiplayer, this and that and all the bloat. You take one idea and you stretch it and make it work in a myriad of fun ways.
posted by Fizz at 1:41 PM on November 9 [1 favorite]


he started out as a construction worker (some say carpenter, but those are clearly metal girders)

Sure, but that runs afoul of my argument that Mario is the pre-eminent Christ figure of the modern era.
posted by Strange Interlude at 1:44 PM on November 9 [2 favorites]


I don't think it's necessary to disparage Korok seed hunting in order to praise power moon collecting.

The seeds encourage you to look at *everything* in a very very big playing field as a possible source of mystery and excitement.


Exactly! They're not a tangible reward in the way that Mario moons are, but rather a training mechanism to get the player to slow down and appreciate the amount of detail in the game world. Without those subtle carrots on sticks, I could see certain kinds of players just using fast travel to zip between shrines and missing a huge amount of the richness in the game.
posted by Strange Interlude at 2:04 PM on November 9 [3 favorites]


I want to move to New Donk City.

Seriously.

Everyone walks everywhere and hangs out in the parks listening to... solo bassists, apparently. No automobiles other than taxis, which always go slowly and stop well in advance of pedestrian crossings, and also they let you bounce on their roofs.

And look how quickly Mayor Pauline fixes the place up after a scary monster menaces the city! That's good governance, that is.

Most of the other areas would make pretty good vacation spots, but I want to live in New Donk City and eat piroshki.
posted by asperity at 2:06 PM on November 9 [15 favorites]


The Hat was Mario all along, and the guy we thought was a plumber was really just the latest host in a long history of unfortunate souls.

"Kill-a me!"
posted by ejs at 2:10 PM on November 9 [9 favorites]


He’s a doctor. He’s the lead in a mariachi band. He’s a building inspector.

He's actually Frank Abagnale Jr. Catch him if you can.
posted by straight at 2:24 PM on November 9 [3 favorites]


I just finished what was essentially the real last stage (unlocked at 500 moons) and I’ll tell you what, Nintendo’s Mario game progression structure of “make it not toooo challenging so everyone can reach the credits, then put the truly hard stuff after that point” really works. And man, that last stage really is pretty hard.

Ugggghhhhh this game is so good though!
posted by DoctorFedora at 2:53 PM on November 9 [1 favorite]


Just defeated Bowser last night and I’m stoked at the amount of post-game content. Between Mario and Zelda, 2017 is the best year for gaming in a long time.
posted by porn in the woods at 2:58 PM on November 9


Critical info that won't be immediately obvious: you can press Y in the wardrobe to have Mario don a randomized outfit--but in fact this outfit will be scrambled again each time you die. This feature was a tremendous comfort when struggling with some of the lategame challenges like Breakdown Road. My only complaint is that mismatched hats and clothes do not translate into 2D, meaning that I suspect you cannot bring singletons like the Captain's Hat or Boxer Shorts into the 2D plane.
posted by jsnlxndrlv at 3:32 PM on November 9 [3 favorites]


Odyssey is probably going to make me buy a Switch. I have a long flight coming up next month, too, which is a heck of a justification...

And Stardew Valley!?! It's so perfect for Stardew Valley. You won't regret this purchase. Hit me up in MeMail if you want to hash out my early thoughts on the device. I've had it for about a week.
posted by Fizz at 3:48 PM on November 9 [4 favorites]


I've never been a Mario or Nintendo person, seeing as I cut my milk teeth on an Atari 2600 (well, Sears Telegames to be perfectly honest) and went straight into PC gaming after that. I've been watching my 13 year old son play Mario games since we got a Wii, and Odyssey is first one that makes me want to actually play it. The Galaxies came close, but they made me slightly nauseous to watch. This is a big step for me, as the last platformer I played was Jumpman. Well done, Nintendo.
posted by mollweide at 4:24 PM on November 9 [2 favorites]


The Galaxies came close, but they made me slightly nauseous to watch.

If motion sickness when watching 3D games is a problem for you, it might not be so bad if you play yourself. I kinda have to be controlling the camera for most of Odyssey. Feels a bit selfish, but them's the breaks if I don't want to make like a Piranha Plant and spew.
posted by asperity at 4:33 PM on November 9 [1 favorite]


Good point, asperity, thanks!
posted by mollweide at 4:37 PM on November 9


Oh and for anyone who is wondering how the game works in handheld mode. I can confirm its perfect. I haven't used it in docked mode at all and I've had no problem using the motion control moves. I read a few reviews that noted that playing in handheld was difficult but that's not been my experience.
posted by Fizz at 4:55 PM on November 9 [3 favorites]


Oh, yeah, I had a scare early on with the camera in Odyssey giving me the powerful barfs. Setting the camera sensitivity to "low" and training myself to use the "center camera" button more and the right stick a lot less helped out TREMENDOUSLY.
posted by DoctorFedora at 5:45 PM on November 9 [2 favorites]




Odyssey plus Stawdew Valley on the Switch are my gaming balm, and that's only a fraction of the current library. The joycons are finally living up to their name. The positional rumble plus auditory musicality of the lil controllers makes playing by not looking, in certain circumstances, entirely possible. Also, Odyssey has some lovely dynamic music tracks that run the full gamut. Switch is having a moment in the nine months since its release. They're rolling out video recording on titles, their photo capturing is a meme maker, and they're putting out first party titles that embrace the features.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 9:10 PM on November 9


To be accurate, he started out as a construction worker (some say carpenter, but those are clearly metal girders) and later dabbled in pharmacy.

a Nintendo spokesperson is on the record saying Mario was never a real doctor and something shady was going on there, he probably shouldn't have been handing out pills like that.
posted by vogon_poet at 9:29 PM on November 9


and there's a ton of third party re-releases coming out in the next month -- Skyrim and LA Noire are the most notable, I think. It feels like studios are kicking the tires on the hardware, maybe.
posted by vogon_poet at 9:31 PM on November 9 [1 favorite]


Kudos to Fizz on the post name, by the way.
posted by DoctorFedora at 11:15 PM on November 9 [2 favorites]


I like how, if you capture a Goomba, and jump on another Goomba, what you get is a stack of Goomas. And you can keep going, Goomba after Goomba, as many as there are in the area, and some moons ask you to build a stack of a minimum height and take it someplace.
posted by JHarris at 11:34 PM on November 9 [6 favorites]


BTW guys, don't forget, Mario Odyssey supports the video feature on the Switch. If you've done something cool or seen something funny or anything like that, hold the Screenshot button down for a couple of seconds, and the system will record and save the last 30 seconds of gameplay. So you can capture experiences after they happen, rather than anticipate them ahead of time.

Then once recorded, you can trim them on the system and upload them to social media. Zelda and Splatoon 2 support this feature too.
posted by JHarris at 11:37 PM on November 9 [5 favorites]


While I'm waiting for my copy to arrive, I've been playing the challenge stages of Super Mario Maker for the 3DS and they are wonderful. The only explanation I can come up with is that Nintendo has a Fun Ideas department because if you told me that what ought to be throwaway "content" in a stage creation tool is worth a purchase just to play through it, I'd be definitely sceptical. All I know is I'm not playing anything else till I complete these 72 stages. Maybe replay for some of the two challenges for each stage? Hmm.
posted by ersatz at 11:52 PM on November 9 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I really like Nintendo's approach to saving video on the Switch. Thirty seconds might not be a super lot, but it's enough to cover most interesting events, and the fact that it's retroactive is just super clever. It reminds me of when someone pointed out that the iPhone's camera takes a photo of the moment just before you press the shutter button, to take human reaction time squishiness into account.
posted by DoctorFedora at 1:02 AM on November 10


It sounds like an obvious feature, but it must be technically challenging to implement. The Switch has no way of knowing when, in the future, you'll ask it to save video, so it has to keep the entire last 30 seconds of play buffered at all times, which at 60 frames a second is substantial memory.

That's: 1280 px H x 720 px V x 3 bytes per pixel x 60 frames per second x 30 seconds = approaching 5 gigabytes. That's a lot of RAM for a retroactive recording feature, unless it's compressed on the fly and stored that way.

If it's not stored compressed, my guess would be that it just saves the last geometry sent to the video hardware, replacing it on a rolling basis, and when a request for video is sent it renders it in the background.
posted by JHarris at 1:44 AM on November 10


I'd guess it's stored compressed -- the thing has 8 CPU cores, 4 of which are optimized for background processing, so it can probably encode video without breaking a sweat.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:13 AM on November 10 [1 favorite]


I like how, if you capture a Goomba, and jump on another Goomba, what you get is a stack of Goomas. And you can keep going, Goomba after Goomba, as many as there are in the area, and some moons ask you to build a stack of a minimum height and take it someplace.

Related: The Goomba romance moons, where you form a crazy-high Goomba stack and waddle your tall, orange, and handsome self on over to a lady Goomba up on a tall ledge.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:42 AM on November 10 [4 favorites]


One neat thing I found out: when you capture a new moon, Mario's "You Got a Moon!" pose randomly has either an outstretched palm, a balled-up fist, or is making the peace sign. That means you can play rock-paper-scissors with Mario every time you get a new moon.
posted by cyberscythe at 7:26 AM on November 10 [15 favorites]


it has to keep the entire last 30 seconds of play buffered at all times, which at 60 frames a second is substantial memory

Is it possible (and would it expend less resources) that the Switch preserves player input and game states then just re-renders the scene if you ask for a video?
posted by straight at 8:05 AM on November 10


I doubt it. Too many edge cases around things like RNG-driven mechanics.

Plus, encoding short videos like that is pretty cheap and fast these days. It's encoding long videos that takes a long time, because of the memory requirements. On the PC, there are about a dozen different video-recording tools (and I think Windows 10 even has one built-in) that work the same way with minimal performance cost.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:27 AM on November 10 [3 favorites]


Oh this is so tempting to pull the trigger on the Switch. I've been playing BotW on the Wii U and I figure I am only about a halfway through it...however really good Mario games that encourage exploration of all sorts of places really push my buttons.

Just please tell me it is light years better that Wii U Paper Mario: Color Splash.
posted by mmascolino at 9:00 AM on November 10


Just please tell me it is light years better that Wii U Paper Mario: Color Splash.

Odyssey is nine hundred million times better than Color Splash. Go get it!
posted by porn in the woods at 9:13 AM on November 10 [2 favorites]


I wonder how much of a difference it makes for Nintendo making games like Odyssey and BotW that there is such a huge difference between the target hardware and how powerful the hardware is they have available for development. It seems like it would be a lot easier to design and polish a game if you can use a computer with so much more memory and processing power than the target console.

That's been true of handheld games, but has there ever been a big AAA console title like these developed targeting a console that's so far beneath the best available desktop computer?
posted by straight at 9:56 AM on November 10


I do not regret my purchase. And the thing is that a lot of larger developers/publishers have now noticed that the Switch is actually a successful console/device. So in the next 6 months, you're going to see an explosion in indie games coming to the Switch.

The type of support that I wish the Vita had been given here in N. America. The Vita was/is great but it just never had AAA game support here in N. America it should have been given. So unless you're super into JRPGs (I am) and smaller indie games, it probably wasn't your thing.

I'm glad that the Switch is not going to languish in the same way.
posted by Fizz at 10:11 AM on November 10 [3 favorites]


More third-party publishers 'aggressively' ramp up Nintendo Switch support [gamesindustry.biz]
“The increase in third-party support follows Nintendo Switch's better-than-expect sales, with the machine reaching 7.63m units worldwide. Publishers have been understandably wary of Nintendo following the disappointment of Wii U, however, 10m unit sales is typically the sweet spot that gets the global games industry excited. Nintendo expects to have reached closer to 17m by the end of its financial year in March 2018, if it can deliver on a strong Christmas period.

"At present, software sales volumes at our software publishers have not reached the levels we saw for Wii," says Nintendo president Tatsumi Kimishima in its latest Q&A briefing. "This is in part because the total cumulative sales volume for the Nintendo Switch hardware hasnʼt yet reached 10 million units, and in part because past Nintendo platform sales trends have led software publishers to be cautious at the start. That said, software publishers have taken the Nintendo Switch ideas and concepts to heart. ”
posted by Fizz at 10:30 AM on November 10


Square Enix and Ubisoft have both put some effort and investment to get games on to the Switch. EA is the only holdout, but I'm ok with that. Fuck EA.
posted by Fizz at 10:31 AM on November 10 [1 favorite]


I missed LA Noire the first time around--I think I was still playing Red Dead Redemption when it came out and then Arkham City happened and I never got around to it. I'll probably pick it up for Switch, although the pricetag for a six-year-old game galls me a bit.

I bought the Switch mostly to play Zelda and because I don't have time for gaming, these days -- so being able to pick up a handheld for a few minutes is great. I'll be really pleased if the sales do spur more AAA-type third-party games, even if they're pared back and not necessarily launched alongside the Xbox and PS4 versions.
posted by uncleozzy at 10:44 AM on November 10 [1 favorite]


It sounds like an obvious feature, but it must be technically challenging to implement. The Switch has no way of knowing when, in the future, you'll ask it to save video, so it has to keep the entire last 30 seconds of play buffered at all times, which at 60 frames a second is substantial memory.

This has been a Thing on PC and other consoles for a couple years now. Just use a hardware h.264 encoder and keep a rolling buffer of the encoded video (it isn't very large after encoding). The NVIDIA version on PC (ShadowPlay) can keep a ten-minute replay buffer with a minimal performance hit. So really this is just Nintendo playing catchup on technical features as usual.

(I'm actually just jealous of y'all with Switches, I need to get my own ASAP.)
posted by neckro23 at 11:08 AM on November 10 [3 favorites]


I'll probably pick it up for Switch, although the pricetag for a six-year-old game galls me a bit.

Yeah the pricing is a bit all over the place. I believe CaveStory+ is $39 (CDN) which is quite high for a game that was originally free on PC and has pretty much hit every console/gaming medium. And The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth is $49 (CDN). My wallet weeps just thinking about them.
posted by Fizz at 11:30 AM on November 10


This game is so awesome that I pre-ordered it, the first time I have ever done that. My son (8) and wife and I are all taking turns playing (on our own profiles) and we are all around the same progress. The open world collectibles are reminiscent of the Lego games, but a little more arcade-y and a little less puzzle-y. I do prefer to play with the joycon grip rather than handheld for some of the mechanics.
posted by mbd1mbd1 at 2:24 PM on November 10 [2 favorites]


It's funny you mention that, my first thought when watching a lot of videos of this game was that the open world moon-collecting reminded me a lot of LEGO Jurassic World (the only one of those LEGO games I've played). And, I mean, I really dug that game, so that's not a negative comparison for me at all.
posted by tobascodagama at 2:44 PM on November 10


Jeremy Parish ranks the core Super Mario games for Polygon

18) SMB2jp/Lost Levels
17) New Super Mario Bros. (DS)
16) Sunshine
15) Land 1
14) New Super Mario Bros. 2
13) SMB2/USA
12) Land 2
11) 64
10) New Super Mario Bros. Wii
9) 3D Land
8) Super Mario Bros. 1
7) Galaxy 1
6) World
5) 3D World
4) Galaxy 2
3) Odyssey
2) Mario 3
1) New Super Mario Bros. U
posted by porn in the woods at 8:25 PM on November 10 [1 favorite]


Are you certain it does 60 fps? As far as I know that's the absolute max a monitor will display. I wouldn't be surprised if the Switch was only displaying 30, and rendering no more than 40.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:10 PM on November 10


Yeah, it's 60fps (most of the time) with the resolution ranging from 1280x720 to 1600x900 depending on how hard the game is pushing the GPU. This Digital Foundry video goes into some of the technical tricks they use to maintain 60fps.
posted by Gary at 10:16 PM on November 10


I finished the main story today. Regarding the playing styles, there are certain parts that are definitely easier with the controllers held separately (e.g. the homing attack) and there were times when I played in handheld mode because the controls seem more responsive that way.

The game itself is brilliant, looking forward to playing past the main mission now.
posted by toamouse at 4:03 PM on November 11


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