Thanks for nothing

November 19, 2017 8:35 AM

Day 303: it's turkey time, and Republicans are putting tax and spending cuts on the table, which many are finding an unpalatable centrepiece. CBO estimates suggest that poor Americans' gooses in particular will be cooked if the bill passes, with households earning under $50,000 increasingly worse off. Republican senators have stated, on the record, that major donors will not be inviting them back for a second helping of support if the tax cut bill fails. The House bill has been served but the Senate bill is still in the oven, and preparing it will involve two opposed groups coming together with a shared purpose, and also some way of massaging the figures so they won't increase the deficit. [This is a catch-all US politics thread; Roy Moore talk goes here]

The bill cuts corporate tax to 20% while plugging a few flagrant loopholes (such as the Section 199 tax break for manufacturing, that in practice is exceptionally broad), and collapses income tax brackets down from 7 to 4. Because it's easier (read: possible) to pass the bill if it can be massaged to be revenue neutral, the individual tax cuts expire and a bunch of services are permanently cut, so most Americans end up being worse off overall, the very poorest in particular. (Trump, however, does very well from this emolument.) In addition, the individual mandate (aka the thing in Obamacare that keeps the insurance pools stable) will be junked if it passes.
Also going on in US politics: fallout from Al Franken's 2006 USO tour where sexual harassment was tolerated (and photographed) continues, Doug Jones has pulled even with sexual predator Roy Moore in the polls, turning what was seen as a cakewalk for Moore into a real chance for a Democrat win in one of the least Democrat-friendly states in the country, the media noticed that Donald Trump Jr. has inadvertently suggested that Jared Kushner gave false testimony, and House Democrats have introduced a bill to impeach President Trump (just to remind people that there are Democrats who'd like to impeach Trump).

@ashleyfeinberg: only three more days until we find out how trump’s gonna manage to make the turkey pardon about race war

posted by Merus (2561 comments total)

Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), chairman of the House Freedom Caucus and a go-between for congressional Republicans and the White House, said he was confident Trump had their back this time.

“He gave me his word,” Meadows said.
posted by box at 8:45 AM on November 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

The start of a thread! The tax cut bill has actually made my Trump-loving old high school classmates on Facebook unhappy.
posted by acrasis at 8:45 AM on November 19, 2017 [51 favorites]

In Alabama?
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posted by Rhaomi at 8:46 AM on November 19, 2017 [46 favorites]

I feel horrible for everyone about to get fucked over by this Republican congress and President.

OK, not everyone. There's gonna be millions of people fucked over who well and truly deserve it because they looked racism, misogyny, and parasitism in the face and FUCKING VOTED FOR IT.
posted by tclark at 8:48 AM on November 19, 2017 [30 favorites]

The 'problem' with calling for his impeachment now is that (and here it would be good to have an insight into the Mueller team) there's likely a couple smoking cannons on the way- which will make the call for impeachment inevitable.
And I know a guy who's got this bridge... sigh...
posted by From Bklyn at 8:48 AM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'd love some better resources for people wanting to stop the tax cut bill, too.
posted by Merus at 8:49 AM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

The tax cut bill has actually made my Trump-loving old high school classmates on Facebook unhappy.

I know it is not a very good thing when every time I hear about some old, white person in the reddest of states being rallied around because they might have to forgo critical medications, or are facing utter ruin and death, only then to have my empathy put on hold for a moment, wondering if they were a Trump voter. But I do it anyway.
posted by tclark at 8:54 AM on November 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

I'm okay with calling for impeachment, even if it's a stunt. But impeachment is a trial in the Senate stage, not just a vote. They call witnesses. I'm not super-familiar with the process but I can't see why Mueller couldn't be a witness for the prosecution. This kind of situation is what impeachment was designed for.
posted by Merus at 9:01 AM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

I feel horrible for everyone about to get fucked over by this Republican congress and President.

eventually, the tax bill's going to come due and the truth will not be hidden from the gop's supporters - they will be outraged and their wrath will be truly scary to behold

the republicans are playing with fire and don't realize it yet
posted by pyramid termite at 9:01 AM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

CBO estimates suggest that poor Americans' gooses in particular will be cooked if the bill passes, with households earning under $50,000 increasingly worse off.


So I suppose the word on the GOP street is, the CBO is partisan and doesn't count the trillions in magic economic growth that will be forthcoming?
posted by thelonius at 9:01 AM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

eventually, the tax bill's going to come due and the truth will not be hidden from the gop's supporters - they will be outraged and their wrath will be truly scary to behold

the republicans are playing with fire and don't realize it yet

As long as minorities and an intellectual class exist, the GOP base will not blame the party for anything done to them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:06 AM on November 19, 2017 [118 favorites]

My sympathies to MeFites who are obliged to attend family Thanksgiving dinner with vocal relatives who have extreme/right-wing/extreme right-wing views, and have to listen to "justifications" for the tax bill or the current potus.
posted by Wordshore at 9:07 AM on November 19, 2017 [40 favorites]

eventually, the tax bill's going to come due and the truth will not be hidden from the gop's supporters - they will be outraged and their wrath will be truly scary to behold

That depends. If Trump gets Scalia #2, #3, and possibly #4 on to the SCOTUS (Think Kennedy, Notorious R.B.G., Breyer) they'll get Roe v. Wade overturned and it won't matter how much the middle class get taxed. Bonus points if they get enough willing justices to overturn Lawrence and Obergefell.
posted by Talez at 9:07 AM on November 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Hell, they might figure out that Loving v. Virginia gets scrapped because they believe the Warren court took the 14th amendment too far. After all, Virginia's Racial Integrity Act of 1924 banned both black and white people alike from marrying outside their race.
posted by Talez at 9:09 AM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

you just don't understand - the supreme court is just a sideshow compared to the yearly tax bill - no one's going to be able to line up a scapegoat for the gop raising taxes

there comes a point where people aren't going to be fooled anymore - they might want all sorts of evil, regressive things but they want them CHEAP with no increase in taxes
posted by pyramid termite at 9:13 AM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump and politics didn’t come up last year when we went home to Trumptown, CA and I expect we’re all gonna bite our tongues while gnawing on turkey bones this year, too.

I hope.
posted by notyou at 9:15 AM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

there comes a point where people aren't going to be fooled anymore

Has there ever?
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:16 AM on November 19, 2017 [76 favorites]

there comes a point where people aren't going to be fooled anymore

Has there ever?

Pete Townshend would like a word.
posted by jferg at 9:21 AM on November 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

which many are finding an unpalatable centerpiece.

Ivanka has a helpful suggestion for that (assuming that you're going for the Eldritch Horror theme this year)
posted by octothorpe at 9:21 AM on November 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

fallout from Al Franken's 1996 USO tour

It was a 2006 USO tour. Can a mod correct this in the post?
posted by jedicus at 9:27 AM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Re tax cuts, the way the sunset on this works, republicans will be able to blame democrats if they don't vote to extend them. This was masterful in its fuckery.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:31 AM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

For all those of you talking to your senators about the tax bill, here's another reason why you should be against it: legislation opening ANWR to drilling (Murkowski’s plan) just passed committee and will be tucked into the bill.

This will accompany the largest ever land lease energy sale in the BLM's history, 10 million acres to the west of the Refuge in the Petroleum Reserve (announced in October).

NPR link
Washington Post link
posted by barchan at 9:33 AM on November 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

there comes a point where people aren't going to be fooled anymore

Has there ever?

Kansas?
posted by chris24 at 9:33 AM on November 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Mod note: Fixed the date and nixed a little unnecessary language from the Roy Moore thread pointer.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:34 AM on November 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

I appreciate the turkey theming of this post.

Also, I feel like it’s important to remind everyone that Puerto Rico is still a horrorshow.
posted by corb at 9:38 AM on November 19, 2017 [96 favorites]

Flying home tomorrow to spend 8 days with family in Trumpland. Starting to get anxious about the inevitable fights. What's the right ratio of turkey to whiskey to ensure a proper food coma?
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:46 AM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ivanka has a helpful suggestion for that

i never thought i'd live to see the thanksgiving where sandra lee's semi-homemade sheer tablescape weirdness was outdone
2017, you continue to... amaze? horrify? whatever it is, you sure do continue to do it
posted by halation at 9:47 AM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Now that the three basketball players are out of China and saved from years in jail, LaVar Ball, the father of LiAngelo, is unaccepting of what I did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. I should have left them in jail!

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
posted by zachlipton at 9:49 AM on November 19, 2017 [114 favorites]

I know that were I to have gotten three people out of jail, and one of their fathers didn't show me sufficient gratitude, I would definitely want those people back in jail. I would also publicize the father's name to untold millions of insane people.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:53 AM on November 19, 2017 [40 favorites]

Unaccepting? UNACCEPTING??
posted by Myeral at 9:55 AM on November 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

MAGA.

Germany supplants US as the country with the best global reputation
posted by chris24 at 9:55 AM on November 19, 2017 [58 favorites]

I do not anticipate any conversation about Trump of politics at Thanksgiving. It’s typically not a thing. However, if it does come up, I will not be biting my tongue or trying to play nice. If someone wants the last word so bad that they’re gonna be willing to ruin the holiday over it, then it’s on. The right wingers have been rewarded so richly for being brutish, domineering, selfish and evil. I was done playing nice on November 8, 2016.
posted by azpenguin at 9:56 AM on November 19, 2017 [111 favorites]

- He thinks shoplifting is a big deal and deserves years in Chinese jail.

- He keeps saying he's the best at big deals.
posted by adept256 at 9:57 AM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

What's the right ratio of turkey to whiskey to ensure a proper food coma?

One bite per bottle.

My wife and I are spending thanksgiving with the liberal pastor who married us, instead of my parents and brother and sister-in-law and her father. This is because they are all Trump boosters (and in the father’s points of disfavor openly racist and probably ready to insult my wife) and murder on a holiday is not really good.
posted by mephron at 9:58 AM on November 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

@ashleyfeinberg: only three more days until we find out how trump’s gonna manage to make the turkey pardon about race war

I bet Junior's going to look cute in his turkey costume.
posted by adept256 at 9:59 AM on November 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Me 5 minutes ago: There's a new POTUS thread. I'll check it out

Me now: What the fuck with that Thanksgiving table shit? And then... Another... Fucking... Tweet! sob
posted by Myeral at 9:59 AM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Re: Franken, I'd like to call attention to a thought-provoking exchange toward the end of the last thread.

bongo_x:

Christ.

Someone has now posted this video of Tweeden sneaking up behind and rubbing and grabbing a guy on stage at a USO show.

ctmf:

Is the whole country seven years old? "Oh yeah well look what SHE did"? That's a defense now?

Pater Aletheias:

“Look what she did!” is not a defense, but “the 2006 USO tour was marked by frequent ribald humor including performers grinding against and groping each other, and Tweeden was just as involved with those behaviors as anyone, so the photo of Franken miming groping her should be interpreted in that context” is a defense.

From my POV, this is the weakest possible sexual harassment case I can imagine. You have a kiss that each person, 11 years later, remembers differently and a picture of pretend-groping in the context of a ribald USO tour where that behavior was common and had also been exhibited by the alleged victim. It’s not nothing, but on the continuum of sexual crimes it’s so close to nothing that you can’t tell the difference if you are standing where Moore or Trump are.

If this were any moment in time other than fall 2017, I’d say it’s ridiculous to expect an otherwise beloved and effective senator to resign because of one joke that crossed the line during a tour of line-crossing jokes. What rankles me is that it is the fall of 2017 and I’m concerned that if we try to be sensible about Franken, it’ll give the GOP rhetorical ammunition to keep harboring and defending rapists and child molestors. Therefore, much as it annoys me, I’m on side “Franken has to take one for the team.” And then, once we have established the Franken rule—“even the weakest possible harassment case means you leave politics”—we go after Moore and Trump and their ilk as loudly as possible.

T. D. Strange:

Again, the problem with this "rule" is it will only apply to Democrats. It's akin to unilateral disarmament. Because Republicans Just Do Not Give A Fuck. While we drive out our own Senators over weak cases that no employment lawyer would take up outside of the US Senate, and establish the principal than any allegation is enough to end the career of any Democratic politician, they will stand by their child rapists to the death and weaponize the new standard with James O'keefe style "accusations" to drive Democrats out of flippable seats.

It's been really disheartening to see the blanket calls for resignation here and throughout the left leaning internet going on for days and days. The Senate has a process, Franken has agreed that the ethics process should be used, even the victim has forgiven him, stop digging. Stop the circular firing squad. Let the process work.

So, throughout the weekend, and before I saw that video, I had been ruminating on this Daily Beast piece from Erin Gloria Ryan, particularly her discussion of a second person who's invoking #metoo allegations against Al Franken:

On the heels of Tweeden’s disturbing allegations, however, another woman came forward claiming that she too had been “stalked and harassed” by Franken. Melanie Morgan teased her accusation with a Tweet, and then directed curious readers to her website. On her website, she described how Franken called her more than once because he disagreed with how she was discussing a policy issue on the radio.

Let me stop here to note that Ryan doesn't include a link to Morgan's discussion of what happened to her. The most I can find about it is from a wingnut media outlet that I'd rather not drive clicks to. Quoting the relevant portion:

“I made a statement about the budget numbers, Franken challenged me, I challenged him back. It was about spending priorities, actually just a mundane discussion. But he obsessed over it.”

After the show, Morgan said Franken wouldn’t leave her alone, insisting on continuing the argument.

“He approached me backstage, angrily called me out on those numbers and insisted he would prove he was right. He wouldn’t leave me alone, he kept following me. As a woman, his presence and proximity to me felt very threatening and intimindating.

“I didn’t realize his creepy behavior after the show meant it would continue in the days to come.

“He approached Carol, the show’s producer and demanded my home phone number, which was a clear violation of network protocol. I had thought that was the end of the story and was shocked when he started calling my home, badgering me repeatedly.

“I became fearful and called Carol to complain and asked her to tell him to back off. But he made another call after that. I thought that he might end up stalking me at my home in Northern California, it was that bad.

“By the third phone call I was outraged and terrified, as he is really disturbed,” Morgan recounted.

Morgan said Franken finally left her alone, but only after she pushed back and threatened “to call the police and make a report that he was harassing me.”

To this day, she says she is haunted by it: “I never forgot that experience and it informed me of his lack of character and obsessive personality. I believe every word Leann wrote.”

On the one hand, I think Ryan's summary of Morgan's accusations leaves out enough detail that it could be considered misleading. On the other hand, while arguing with someone and then calling them on multiple occasions to continue the argument is certainly harassment, it seems like it's in a different category from what Franken did to Tweeden. Still unacceptable from a US Senator, but, unless there are details Morgan is leaving out, not seeming to rise to the level of sexual harassment. Ryan makes this point well:

Even giving Morgan the extremely generous benefit of the doubt, it’s hard to pretend what she alleges Franken did is the same thing as what Tweeden’s picture shows Franken actually doing. Nor is what Tweeden’s picture shows, horrible as it is, the same as what somebody like Roger Ailes or Bill Clinton did.

Which gets to a problem. Right now, the court of public opinion is faced with the awkward task of assigning degrees of severity to sexual misconduct, because, while they all cause harm, they don’t all cause the same amount of harm and thus don’t merit the same punishment. Furthermore, punishment varies by the power the offender wields. A senator, for example, should have a much higher moral threshold than, say, a comedian. Writing in The New Yorker this week, Masha Gessen treads lightly in making this point, warning that the #MeToo moment could devolve into “sex panic” if we’re not careful. “The distinctions between rape and coercion are meaningful, in the way it is meaningful to distinguish between, say, murder and battery,” Gessen writes.

One’s political ideology or past advocacy doesn’t mean it’s impossible for a person to be victimized by somebody with opposing ideology. But if what she’s written is all she’s got, Morgan’s account reeks of naked political opportunism, of weaponizing victimhood in a way that is so morally bankrupt that it threatens to derail the entire #MeToo conversation for selfish political ends.

(I suppose it also bears mentioning here that while Fox News’ primetime lineup was going up in flames thanks to decades of sexual misconduct coming to light, Morgan was leading the charge to protect men like Bill O’Reilly—who has settled tens of millions of dollars worth of sexual harassment lawsuits during his career—from being fired for what Morgan called “dubious” reasons.)

Now, I don't think that Morgan's efforts to protect O'Reilly should have any bearing on how we should assess allegations that she was harassed by Franken, but given that she isn't alleging any specific sexual behavior on Franken's part, and given what we know about the things O'Reilly did, for which he paid out millions of dollars in settlements, it does seem to me that Morgan wants her political enemies to be held to much higher standards than her political allies, even if it means that the sexual assault victims of her political allies aren't to be trusted, while her allegations of harassment from Franken should be taken as seriously as we're taking Tweeden's, even though it seems categorically different.

Ryan continues:

Writing with almost creepy prescience at Crooked.com this week, Brian Beutler warned against the coming Breitbart-style weaponization of the “Believe Women” movement. “Unfolding against the backdrop of the post-Weinstein revolution, the Moore scandal exposes the conservative propaganda machine in the ugliest and most discrediting possible fashion,” Beutler writes. “But these cultural changes are all but destined to collide with one another in the opposite direction, in a way that exploits both the beneficence of the ‘believe women’ campaign, and the even-handedness of the mainstream media. It is a collision we as a political culture are not equipped to handle, the consequences of which are almost too awful to contemplate.”

That’s why Weinstein fallout could go up in smoke in a second. Because enough people believe that women are all liars, that one liar will fuck it up for all of us.

This Roy Moore Old Testament-Original Sin-Women Are Liars mindset is the worldview that needs to change in order for women to truly have access to the same opportunities that men have. But its opposite—the notion that women must be believed without any evidence whatsoever—will lead the worst among us to exploit the proof loophole and wreak as much damage as they can before their lies are discovered and skewered. At that point, the loophole irreversibly closes. And if that happens, we’re stuck in Roy Moore’s world, where men are the arbiters of morality and if women aren’t lying, they must have been asking for it.

I've been sitting on that Daily Beast link for a few days trying to decide whether to post it here, because I think there's a fine line between litigating the details of a harassing exchange in which no sexual behavior is alleged and blaming a victim who may honestly have felt intimidated by Franken's "presence and proximity." But in light of the comment exchange in the last thread, I do think it's worth continuing that conversation, because the idea of #metoo being weaponized by people who have never cared about women being harassed until Al Franken was doing it is a disturbing thought, particularly given how well the right has shown themselves to be at manufacturing this sort of propaganda a-la James O'Keefe.

I still think we need to operate from a default position of believing accusers, but it seems unavoidable that this will be exploited by opportunists who were staunch defenders of their own harassers and abusers. I find myself agreeing with T. D. Strange that "unilateral disarmament" isn't wise, but that I don't want to go so far in the other direction that I might begin doubting any new stories that came along just because they might be driven by right-wing propagandists. The next allegations might not have clear photo evidence or an accuser who accepts the apology and doesn't demand a resignation. How do we balance the need to believe accusers while acknowledging the political reality of this credulousness being exploited for political ends?
posted by tonycpsu at 10:09 AM on November 19, 2017 [129 favorites]

It is interesting to me how the Rs talk about how these tax cuts for corporations and the rich will cause them to become suddenly benevolent and give their workers raises and start reinvesting (all of which have been shown to be untrue back when Reagan and then Bush touted that story). But Ds aren't talking about all the benefits to corporations and wealthy receive from the taxes we all pay. Corporations don't exist in a bubble they benefit from our taxes paying for Transportation, infrastructure, education, police, fire, etc., etc. Corporations like Walmart get richer and richer by letting taxpayers pick up the bill for their employees' healthcare and food! because they don't pay enough/don't give employees enough hours to be eligible for corporate benefits so employees qualify for Medicare/cade and SNAP. Why aren't they talking about saving tax dollars by forcing the corporations to give health benefits to all employees? To pay a true living wage? And if they don't want to do that, then the Corporations should be taxed more, not less to cover it.

Our roads, schools, electrical grid, bridges, etc., etc., etc. are falling apart. Dump was all about making investing in infrastructure during his campaign--where is it?
posted by agatha_magatha at 10:15 AM on November 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

Our roads, schools, electrical grid, bridges, etc., etc., etc. are falling apart. Dump was all about making investing in infrastructure during his campaign--where is it?

First, add to that the Child Health Insurance Program is still offline.

Second, where's my fucking job in Construction IT building this fucking wall he promised?
posted by mikelieman at 10:23 AM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

"He kept calling to talk about the budget" is . . . the weirdest kind of sexual(?) harassment?
posted by petebest at 10:46 AM on November 19, 2017 [27 favorites]

Ivanka has a helpful suggestion for that

That tweet provoked some good responses though, that had me laughing out loud for quite a while yesterday. For example
posted by nubs at 10:50 AM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Mod note: With the approach of the for-some-very-stressful Thanksgiving holiday, I'll remind anyone who is just feeling like they need to vent anxiety etc. that there's still an open Fucking Fuck! MetaTalk that's probably a better home for that than this thread.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:02 AM on November 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

Nevermind Russia, the destruction of the Affordable Care Act, or the corporate tax scam the House is trying to foist on the American people. If LaVar Ball can figure out a way to make a buck out of fighting with Trump he will be the one to bring the entire administration down.

I swear to Christ, I'll buy a $500 pair of BigBallerBrand shoes if that happens.
posted by The Hamms Bear at 11:18 AM on November 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

He kept calling to talk about the budget" is . . . the weirdest kind of sexual(?) harassment?

Honestly, stalking a woman to the point of getting her home phone number from the producer and calling her repeatedly at home definitely sounds harassing and intimidating to me, and whether it was sexual or not, the threat is definitely gendered. Just like it doesn’t matter whether the sleep-groping was for his sexual gratification or not, it’s still misogynistic.

I think the real problem is - these things aren’t actually small things, they just seem like small things because the toxic load of men’s bad behavior is so huge. But it’s long past time for all of it to be purged.

And people, especially women, can go along with a misogynistic society because they don’t have any further options. Just because someone defended a harasser in the past doesn’t mean we should assume they are making up harassment.
posted by corb at 11:37 AM on November 19, 2017 [37 favorites]

The part of the GOP tax bill that will destroy higher education

The Republicans Know Nothings have declared war on the future.
posted by homunculus at 11:38 AM on November 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

In 2001 the conservative think tank The Heritage Foundation analyzed the propose Bush Tax cuts and concluded that it would not only pay for itself, it would completely eliminate the national debt by 2010:

http://www.heritage.org/taxes/report/the-economic-impact-president-bushs-tax-relief-plan

Assuming that the national debt has been completely paid off by now (I've been super busy with stuff and haven't had a chance to check) we should just trust that this tax plan will do whatever conservatives promise it will.
posted by justkevin at 11:39 AM on November 19, 2017 [74 favorites]

The Republicans Know Nothings have declared war on the future.

Naw, that was Ronerald "Spend the kids' pension on guns" Raygun. These wankers are just posing with trophy corpses for their masters. Ruinous, of course, but - no zazz.
posted by petebest at 11:43 AM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's going to be interesting in the Senate. Franken will have more to admit -- he's been a powerful figure in the entertainment industry since 1975, and it's pretty unlikely he suddenly started start behaving crudely to women in 2006. Moore will keep denying misconduct, and he'll be elected next month. Expelling them both would seem to be a high bar, but it's hard to see the Senate Republicans letting Franken stay if they throw out (or refuse to seat) Moore.
posted by MattD at 11:48 AM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can we talk about that utterly insane (Republican!) presidential tweet about regretting freeing American citizens from communist captivity?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 11:54 AM on November 19, 2017 [67 favorites]

I kindof doubt the thing where he couldn't let go of the budget argument was gendered, and I bet it's not the only instance of Al Franken not wanting to let go of an Air America debate when he thought he detected a guest weaseling the numbers. He shouldn't have kept on with it, but I doubt he treated men any differently when they tried to wriggle out of an argument. He was like a terrier when he sniffed a lie. That's why he was great in hearings. He now must turn that relentless Franken nose for bullshit on his own prevarication.

As for the video, there is a vast gulf of difference between a theatrical onstage "kiss" performed by two people in character and the rehearsal kiss, when they were alone and being themselves. Her onstage "grope" and the mimed grope on the plane while the other "performer" was asleep are worlds apart. Al Franken was not playing a character. He was, I was heartbroken to have to admit to myself, being himself. Al Franken surely understands the difference between stage and backstage; he was a professional audience-delighter for years. The naked malice in it, the ganging up, the awful fratparty hawhaw, she's asleep and can't defend herself. No. No. No. It is intolerable, and he has to go.
posted by Don Pepino at 11:55 AM on November 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

Can we talk about that utterly insane (Republican!) presidential tweet about regretting freeing American citizens from communist captivity?

My nevertrump Twitter list is 🔥 right now and also they’ve noticed that the people referred to are black especially that mention of “LaVar”.
posted by Talez at 12:04 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Germany supplants US as the country with the best global reputation

"Hans... are we the baddies good guys?"
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:06 PM on November 19, 2017 [28 favorites]

I still think we need to operate from a default position of believing accusers, but it seems unavoidable that this will be exploited by opportunists who were staunch defenders of their own harassers and abusers. I find myself agreeing with T. D. Strange

I think the default position is going to have to be "believe accusers unless there is a good reason not to, and partisanship is not a good reason." That means believe Tweeding while taking things like the photo in context but looking at the Blumenthal accusation quite skeptically given it's not even clear the accuser even exists as a real person.

We can be sympathetic and supportive without being idiots.
posted by Justinian at 12:07 PM on November 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Sorry, I misspelled Tweeden.
posted by Justinian at 12:13 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Can we talk about that utterly insane (Republican!) presidential tweet about regretting freeing American citizens from communist captivity?

Don't forget that his reason for regretting it was because of insufficient approval from a family member. Wanting to punish people for the actions of their family members is an established pattern for him. He wishes he could institute a North Korean Three Generations of Punishment policy.

While it might seem counterintuitive that Trump would go out of his way to get them out of jail in the first place (seeing as he hates black athletes) it's really a win-win for him. If they don't all praise him, he gets to bully them and satisfy his racism via Twitter. If they all thank and praise him, he gets an ego-stroke. If they all thank and praise him but one of their family members doesn't, he gets the ego stroke AND gets to complain about black people, an act that pleases both himself and his base. In any case it's more pleasure chemicals secreted into the brain of an insane and declining asshole, and that's the only thing that counts now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:14 PM on November 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

"Hans... are we the baddies good guys?"

Time elapsed from the liberation of Auschwitz/Nuremberg Trials to now: approximately one human lifespan.
posted by acb at 12:14 PM on November 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Motion to make a Franken thread so as to keep the Mega thread focused on #MEGA
posted by petebest at 12:18 PM on November 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

So, Franken thread or Frankenthread then?

(And I second that motion.)
posted by acb at 12:19 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

#MEGA

Make Ephebophilia Great Again? We already have a Roy Moore thread.
posted by Talez at 12:21 PM on November 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

the idea of #metoo being weaponized by people who have never cared about women being harassed until Al Franken was doing it is a disturbing thought,

I knew that at some point the backlash against women speaking out was going to happen, because men with any sort of power hate to be called to account. And I think we're starting to see the form is going to take.

On the Republican side we have the old - fashioned forms of the Roy Moore defense (girls are temptresses) and the Pence Rule (lock women out of the halls of power). On the left, it's going to be a somewhat more sophisticated "This is a plot by Breitbart." approach to tackle the "what about the mens" question.

Either way we'll have allegedly liberal, feminist men saying "Oh sure believe women, but not THIS lying whore." All done to make sure the misogynistic status quo doesn't change.
posted by happyroach at 12:24 PM on November 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

The graduate students in my department are terrified of this tax bill. It's not exaggerating to say that it could destroy us financially and wreck the careers we've worked so hard for. We're at a loss for what to do; walkouts are planned, but it's not like "graduate students" are a huge constituency.

The House Just Voted to Bankrupt Graduate Students (NYT)

There is a good chance that this tax bill will include our tuition waivers as "income." This is money that we never see - but it means that we might have to pay taxes on it anyway. One of the students in my department calculated that out of her $23,000 living stipend, she could end up owing close to $9,000 of that in taxes.

It's absurd. It's evil. If it's not a calculated move to destroy graduate education and make the lives of "liberal" academics miserable, it does a very good job of pretending to be one.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 12:25 PM on November 19, 2017 [136 favorites]

The part of the GOP tax bill that will destroy higher education

Perfectly reasonable - some gimlet-eyed conservative economist simply figured out that propective grad students and prospective school teachers help society more by buying private jets than they do by discovering new pharmaceuticals or making sure their first-graders all have pencils and snowsuits.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:26 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

> We can be sympathetic and supportive without being idiots.

That sounds great on a bumper sticker, but the allegations aren't going to break own on neat lines like "a photo and a credible account vs. some random tweets that turn out to be fabricated" as in the Blumenthal case.

Being sympathetic and supportive is a no-brainer -- we do that no matter what. My concern, and the one expressed in the piece I linked to, is about the cases that are sure to come, where a political movement that has perpetually downplayed sexual harassment and assault suddenly decides that it's a great way to target their political enemies, and to do so with stories that are either significantly embellished or fabricated.

I stand by my original statement that Franken needs to step down, and that no single politician is indispensable when there are credible accounts of them being an asshole -- sexually or otherwise.. But we all know where this is going. The right will stop at nothing to target their enemies. It's not as simple as "unless there is a good reason not to", or to remove partisanship from the equation, because some of the allegations themselves will exist only to create a partisan advantage, and we won't be in a position to know the details. I hadn't imagined this would happen, but as the Ryan piece shows, it already is.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:36 PM on November 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

On the left, it's going to be a somewhat more sophisticated "This is a plot by Breitbart." approach to tackle the "what about the mens" question.

This was discussed at some length in the last general politics discussion, and without rehashing all of that, the attempt by the right to subvert and weaponize "believe the women" is a real thing. And it's aimed by undercutting the fight against sexual abuse and harassment as much as at hurting Democrats.

What we need is a new standard that applies to both parties and makes it difficult or impossible for men to sweep allegations under the rug by denying everything and waiting for Trump to change the leading news story to his newest outrage, so they can ride it out.

That's why I think using this moment to establish a rule of full Ethics Committee investigation of all allegations is the right move. Republicans have called for that with Franken, so great, let's chisel this in stone for everyone going forward. The full investigation gives a mechanism for weeding out spurious allegations and gives lots of time and a forum for further allegations against the perpetrator to come out.
posted by msalt at 12:38 PM on November 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

Like Justinian in the last thread, I wondered if, technically, the Senate could even take any action against a member of their club for something that took before he or she became a senator. According to the Senate’s official page on censure/expulsion, the only time this has happened – in 1893, with North Dakota Democrat William Roach, “After extensive deliberation, the Senate took no action, assuming that it lacked jurisdiction over members’ behavior before their election to the Senate. The alleged embezzlement had occurred 13 years earlier.”

Interestingly, in light of madamjujujive’s thoughtful suggestion that the people of Minnesota should be the ones to decide about Franken, in 1808, after the Senate failed (by one vote) to expel Republican John Smith for treason, the people back home in Ohio told him to get out, and he left the Senate two weeks later.

p.s. The Senate only has kicked out 15 members over the years, 14 of them for being supporters of the Confederacy during the Civil War. (Others have resigned, instead, when they were asked to leave.) Everybody censured or expelled so far has been male.
posted by LeLiLo at 12:55 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

The Senate only has kicked out 15 members over the years, 14 of them for being supporters of the Confederacy during the Civil War.

So you're saying there's precedent to get rid of a bunch of Republicans.
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:58 PM on November 19, 2017 [50 favorites]

I just found this anti-fascist film from 1947: Don't be a sucker. I was looking for something similar I saw on a FPP years ago, maybe someone remembers what that was? The video I recall was more of a classroom lecture.

People in 1947 knew that fascism could happen in America, and knowing how bad it could be, made educational films called DON'T BE A SUCKER to warn people not to fall for this crap. And here we are, seventy years later, we stopped reminding people to not be suckers.

It's chilling, everything in that video is just as applicable today. It's got 320,000 views. Beer pong vids get more. We needed this last year and we had it all along. It's ancient now though, the generation that saw that when it was fresh is long gone. All those sacrifices have passed from living memory and the lessons aren't being taught anymore. We're going to learn the hard way all over again.

It's interesting to watch, but depressing as hell, so consider that your content warning.
posted by adept256 at 1:08 PM on November 19, 2017 [61 favorites]

There have been 1,971 individuals who have served in the US Senate. Of those, 50 have been women.

Just in case anyone else wants to know how rare expulsions and/or women are in the Senate.

I guess that, statistically, another 80 or so women need to serve before a woman is due to be kicked out.
posted by VTX at 1:08 PM on November 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

The more I think about it, the more I think that Senator Franken calling for an ethics investigation is much better than him just resigning.

It's almost certain there will be more accusations against more members of Congress in the next year or two. When that happens, what do we want to happen next - and what is actually likely? It seems very UNLIKELY to me that many members would simply resign; it seems unlikely to me that many of them would even admit what happened, even with photographic evidence.

If we establish a norm that accusations of sexual harassment or any other kind of misconduct should be met with a thorough ethics investigation, followed by consequences when merited, I think that sends a much better message to everyone than simply hoping that individuals will do the right thing and choose to step down. (And in other states, where resigning would not mean a party-friendly governor appoints a party-friendly replacement, a resignation could open up a seat to a worse candidate.)

I know the current Republican members of Congress are ignoring every norm that inconveniences them. I know we can't expect that accusations against a Republican congressmember would be met with a thorough ethics investigation. But if we set a precedent, set a standard, we can say this: accusations should be taken seriously by the whole body. Ethics are important. Conduct has consequences. It's not up to the accused to decide the consequences; it's up to society. And when the double-standards, hypocritical Republicans initiate enthusiastic investigations against Democrats but not against Republicans, everyone will be able to see what they're doing. And I know that kind of double-standard misbehavior doesn't matter to everyone - there are a lot of people who are happy for Republicans to act horribly if it makes Democrats suffer - but there are also a LOT of people who DO care, who actually get offended by unfairness.

I also know that investigations of sexual harassment and assault have usually been brutal for the women speaking out. I truly, fully understand how devasting that has been and is for the women involved. I would hope that an ethics investigation would be a little less prone to that, given that it's not an adversarial trial, and given the current atmosphere, where people are beginning to understand what happens to women when they talk about what's happened.

We want to say, as a society: we take this very seriously, and we want there to be consequences. How do we best do that?

How do we want to respond to the next dozen accusations against elected officials? What do we want to happen? Instead of trial by media, and consequences decided by the accused, I think a full, public investigation is the best way to show that we take these accusations, and this behavior, very seriously, and I think Franken's call for an investigation into his own conduct points the way for us to demand this for accusations against Republicans, too.
posted by kristi at 1:09 PM on November 19, 2017 [74 favorites]

No, go on, this is my credulous face:
Eyeing detailed peace plan, Trump team could invest years in effort

Senior Trump administration officials are working tirelessly on an airtight diplomatic structure that, once revealed, will demonstrate just how serious they are about negotiating a comprehensive peace agreement between Israelis and Palestinians. But if you ask them, they are not working against a clock.

Deadlines are not a part of President Donald Trump's peace effort, led by Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, and Jason Greenblatt, the US special representative for international negotiations. These two refuse to bind themselves in timetables as they prepare what they describe as an "architecture" for their upcoming initiative.

posted by Joe in Australia at 1:11 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Like Justinian in the last thread, I wondered if, technically, the Senate could even take any action against a member of their club for something that took before he or she became a senator.

That's a fair point. Is there a provision for just being too morally reprehensible to belong in the Senate? What about other ethics investigations that have resulted in penalties less than censure? Wikipedia tells me that William Langer was tried for corruption and moral turpitude while governor of North Dakota. Expulsion failed 52-30 but obviously it went to trial. Spiro Agnew was also forced to resign over actions before he became VP.

Here's the thing though: if you insist on a full investigation for all sexual allegations, that will include the member testifying to his peers. And if he denies the allegations, which are found to be credible, he can be expelled or otherwise punished for that lying. So at a minimum a standard of thorough investigation would make it much harder to just deny everything, which at this point is the Republican's default move.
posted by msalt at 1:20 PM on November 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm fine with the idea of an ethics investigation, but do you think that Congress can pull one off that isn't a complete shitshow?

As a constituent I e-mailed Franken and asked him to step down. He muddies the waters and allows Republicans to blindly pretend everyone does it and go about their business. Everyone doesn't do it. It's not okay.
posted by graventy at 1:23 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Anything Congress does will obviously be a shitshow. We must at least demand the correct shitshows.
posted by phearlez at 1:33 PM on November 19, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ivanka has a helpful suggestion for that (assuming that you're going for the Eldritch Horror theme this year)

Those look like antlers sticking out of it? Ugh.

Best response to that tweet.
posted by zarq at 1:41 PM on November 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

Slate: Another Obstruction Angle
Was Trump intentionally trying to block the investigation into Flynn’s Turkey ties?

The Turkey thing sounds more plausible to me than the idea that all of Trump's actions are explained by kompromat. Russian blackmail totally might have been at the heart of his campaign, but so far the explanation for everything he's done has cone down to short-term interests, like anger, greed, or hatred. If his own staffers can't make him to stick to a coherent narrative then I don't expect his hypothetical Russian handlers could, either.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:45 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Like Justinian in the last thread, I wondered if, technically, the Senate could even take any action against a member of their club for something that took before he or she became a senator.

Yes. The only requirement is the concurrence of 2/3 of the membership.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 1:50 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

As I said in the last thread, I expect to see a bunch of ridiculous sexual harassment charges from the Right. Purposely ridiculous. I suspect the point is not to take down Al Franken, the goal is discrediting sexual harassment accusations. It's a win-win for them.
posted by bongo_x at 1:51 PM on November 19, 2017 [33 favorites]

I agree about what's coming from the right but IMO it's not a win-win for them if we can transform those charges into an ongoing public discussion of Trump's sexual assault history.
posted by Lyme Drop at 2:05 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Part of the issue around discussing these particular sexual assault and harassment allegations is that they will always devolve into a partisan issue, because although the Democrats are willing to engage with conservative members of their own party and Republicans in good faith (because they see the 'us' in 'us and them' thinking to be all of us) the Republicans will always bring this back to an issue of partisan politics because their very worldview depends on that partisan divide (that divide being the line between 'us' and 'them' in their case).

I am glad he is submitting to an Ethics investigation, but like the above shitshow comment, I don't think much will come of it. I hope he either resigns, and a woman is appointed to his place, or he stays to fight against the machinations of the 1% until 2020, at which point I see no way forward for him in politics with this allegation (and the others that are sure to follow).
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 2:14 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

not to abuse the edit window: The most disappointing outcome for me will be if he continues and tries for reelection in 2020. That will indicate to me that these allegations are not taken seriously by the voting public and that we haven't come as far as we say we have when it comes to equality for women.
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 2:15 PM on November 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Germany supplants US as the country with the best global reputation

Canada 4th.

Finishing just out of the medals. A Canadian tradition.
posted by srboisvert at 2:45 PM on November 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

I just found this anti-fascist film from 1947: Don't be a sucker.

I was thinking of daring my formerly-reasonable Trump-supporting family members to try and watch that video all the way through. I doubt they could.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:59 PM on November 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

And don't forget "mike". He really is quite dumb.
posted by vac2003 at 3:38 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

MetaFilter: "mike," "toast"

Also, I'm pretty sure Sen. Flake hasn't announced any opposition to the tax bill. So I don't really see the point in attacking him now, seeing as that only has the possibility to make things worse.
posted by zachlipton at 3:39 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump would much rather have Flake become another enemy of MAGA rather than have to actually sign and be responsible for an actual piece of legislation.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 3:40 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Flakey toast is for breakfast tomorrow.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:40 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

maybe he doesn't quite get how threading works, or somehow got his tweets out of order? because now he's back to LaVar
then again, maybe it's a tweetstorm about INGRATITUDE
whoever was supposed to be on twitter duty is definitely gonna get Yelled At
posted by halation at 3:40 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

Charlie Pierce this morning: My interpretation of the let-em-rot tweet? Something very bad is about to break.

Just now: Someone's really hearing footsteps.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:41 PM on November 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!

---

Shoplifting should be 5-10 years but voters should decide on child molestation.
posted by chris24 at 3:42 PM on November 19, 2017 [76 favorites]

ungrateful

Also, ungrateful is the new uppity.
posted by chris24 at 3:43 PM on November 19, 2017 [85 favorites]

He really doesn't understand that he's not King of America.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:43 PM on November 19, 2017 [23 favorites]

The graduate students in my department are terrified of this tax bill. It's not exaggerating to say that it could destroy us financially and wreck the careers we've worked so hard for. We're at a loss for what to do; walkouts are planned, but it's not like "graduate students" are a huge constituency.

Indeed, yet there are more graduate teaching assistants (125,000) than there are coal miners (83,000) in the United States.
posted by standardasparagus at 3:45 PM on November 19, 2017 [125 favorites]

He really doesn't understand that he's not King of America.

@abfrancois
At this point this is beating a dead horse but the president demanding a private citizen publicly display gratitude for the president having discharged a government function is undemocratic. This is really not a liberal versus conservative issue. We are citizens, not subjects.

---

@Comey (yes, that Comey)
“A good leader takes a little more than his share of the blame, a little less than his share of the credit.” Arnold H. Glasow(1905-1998)
posted by chris24 at 3:46 PM on November 19, 2017 [122 favorites]

Was Trump intentionally trying to block the investigation into Flynn’s Turkey ties?

I know... this year's customary turkey pardon won't involve a flightless bird but instead Erdogan's hired thugs or someone.
posted by acb at 3:49 PM on November 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Indeed, yet there are more graduate teaching assistants (125,000) than there are coal miners (83,000) in the United States.

And, without them, R1 universities would grind to a screeching halt in about an hour. How is it that they don't have the lobbying muscle to get this cut out of the tax bill? The top 20 richest universities have half a trillion dollars in endowments combined. You'd think they could defend their interests in Congress.
posted by dis_integration at 3:51 PM on November 19, 2017 [31 favorites]

My interpretation of the let-em-rot tweet? Something very bad is about to break.

Yeah, about that... WaPo, Ashley Parker and Carol D. Leonnig, ‘A long winter’: White House aides divided over scope, risks of Russia probe:

But the reassurances from Cobb and others — which seem at least partially aimed at keeping the president calm and focused on governing — are viewed by others as naive.

“The president says, ‘This is all just an annoyance. I did nothing,’ ” said one person close to the administration. “He is somewhat arrogant about it. But this investigation is a classic Gambino-style roll-up. You have to anticipate this roll-up will reach everyone in this administration.”
...
Witnesses questioned by Mueller’s team warn that investigators are asking about other foreign contacts and meetings that have not yet become public, and to expect a series of new revelations. Investigators are especially focused on foreign officials’ contacts with Michael Flynn, a campaign adviser and later Trump’s national security adviser, witnesses said.
...
“When the staff gather in the morning at the White House now, they jokingly say: ‘Good morning. Are you wired?’ ” one person close to the administration said.

posted by zachlipton at 3:51 PM on November 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

My interpretation of the let-em-rot tweet? Something very bad is about to break.

He also tends to go after Clinton when he's stressed about Russia and he did this yesterday.

@realDonaldTrump
Crooked Hillary Clinton is the worst (and biggest) loser of all time. She just can’t stop, which is so good for the Republican Party. Hillary, get on with your life and give it another try in three years!
posted by chris24 at 3:54 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Now that the three basketball players are out of China and saved from years in jail, LaVar Ball, the father of LiAngelo, is unaccepting of what I did for his son and that shoplifting is no big deal. I should have left them in jail!

I spent a good minute trying to figure out if Trump was pro or anti-shoplifting here. It sounds like he's saying shoplifting is no big deal, hence the decision to bring them back, but the father was angry and didn't accept the casual treatment of shoplifting.?..

I guess that's why he had to completely re-word it in another tweet:

@realDonaldTrump
Shoplifting is a very big deal in China, as it should be (5-10 years in jail), but not to father LaVar. Should have gotten his son out during my next trip to China instead. China told them why they were released. Very ungrateful!

Such a horrible communicator. But then again I guess the main thing he's trying to communicate is just the dogwhistle anyways, so kudos on remembering to include both "basketball" and "LaVar."
posted by p3t3 at 3:56 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
Shoplifting is a very big deal in China

Wait, I thought he loved making very big deals in China.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:56 PM on November 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

Sorry, Mr. Trump, but the Big Deal of the Day was behind Door #3. Let's see what Monty Mueller has behind your choice, Door#2!
posted by delfin at 4:01 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

And, without them, R1 universities would grind to a screeching halt in about an hour. How is it that they don't have the lobbying muscle to get this cut out of the tax bill?

There's usually laws about government entities like state universities directly lobbying the government. They hire lobbyists though, so there's some way around it I guess. But lobbying muscle here means money donated to GOP members, right? Between the liberal faculty and union representation, there's not a lot of money sitting around earmarked for republicans. And I figure this tax policy largely falls under a 'defund the left' strategy.

The top 20 richest universities have half a trillion dollars in endowments combined. You'd think they could defend their interests in Congress.

IIRC, many of the top universities by endowment can afford to stop charging undergraduate tuition, and grad students are generally paid (hence the topic of taxation). Plus, the Ivy's often have exemptions on overhead expense limits that give them a leg up should costs suddenly rise. I figure those specific universities would fare better than average if tax policy changed. It's the flagship state unis that are likely most boned here.
posted by pwnguin at 4:05 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

My interpretation of the let-em-rot tweet? Something very bad is about to break.

He also tends to go after Clinton when he's stressed about Russia and he did this yesterday.

I sincerely hope this is the case, but it's possible he's just cranky about whatever and he's needing a heavier and heavier hit on his Twitter shittiness to get any sort of rush out of it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:08 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

New from Politico:

The Hidden History of Trump’s First Trip to Moscow: In 1987, a young real estate developer traveled to the Soviet Union. The KGB almost certainly made the trip happen

Trump's first visit to Soviet Moscow in 1987 looks, with hindsight, to be part of a pattern. The dossier by the former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele asserts that the Kremlin had been cultivating Trump for “at least five years” before his stunning victory in the 2016 US presidential election. This would take us back to around 2011 or 2012.

In fact, the Soviet Union was interested in him too, three decades earlier. The top level of the Soviet diplomatic service arranged his 1987 Moscow visit. With assistance from the KGB. It took place while Kryuchkov was seeking to improve the KGB's operational techniques in one particular and sensitive area. The spy chief wanted KGB staff abroad to recruit more Americans.

posted by chris24 at 4:09 PM on November 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

Flake's response yesterday to the hot "mike" story.

@JeffFlake
No news here. I've been saying this to anyone who will listen
posted by chris24 at 4:13 PM on November 19, 2017 [59 favorites]

The top level of the Soviet diplomatic service arranged his 1987 Moscow visit. With assistance from the KGB.

If and/or when he begins tweeting entirely in broken, misspelled Russian Cyrillic, I expect the reactions to be exactly the same.

LEFT: WTF
RIGHT: LOL SUK IT US
MEDIA: AIN'T THAT PECULIAR
posted by petebest at 4:16 PM on November 19, 2017 [16 favorites]

Let's see what Monty Mueller has behind your choice, Door#2!

why it's you, donnie
posted by pyramid termite at 4:17 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

@realDonaldTrump: Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal.

There's a good argument to be made here that all this nonsense has more to do with concerns that they goofed and lifted the ban without following the regulatory process required under the Administrative Procedure Act rather than any actual change of heart.
posted by zachlipton at 4:21 PM on November 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

AL.com's legal counsel smacking down Roy Moore's lawsuit threats.

And the epically harsh,

"We are confident that litigation would not only demonstrate that AL.com exercised the utmost diligence and employed high journalistic standards in reporting these stories, but would also reveal other important information about your clients"

"Fuck off or we will bury you in the press by what we find in discovery"
posted by Talez at 4:22 PM on November 19, 2017 [94 favorites]

What was the bad thing Jeff Flake said about Lincoln?
posted by Going To Maine at 4:23 PM on November 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

Sarah Kendzior's been pointing out Trump's long history with Russia back to the 80s since last year
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:23 PM on November 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

the truth will not be hidden from the gop's supporters - they will be outraged and their wrath will be truly scary to behold

and their rallying cry will ring throughout the land

JAIL HER
JAIL HER
posted by flabdablet at 4:25 PM on November 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Podcast review. I gave the new podcast from Crooked Media (Pod save America guys) a try: Majority 54. I strongly recommend this first episode. The host, Jason Kander has a great speaking voice and has a strong background in politics. He interviewed Bruce Franks, the first rapper to be elected to the MO state house. Franks lives in Ferguson and was there for the protests. Franks is charismatic as hell and has a lot of passion for improving his community.

The podcast ends with ideas on how to counter the typical Right wing responses to BLM. The title of the show stands for the % of the vote that was anti-Trump and how we, the 54%, can respond to Trump voters. I really liked this part of the show.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:26 PM on November 19, 2017 [26 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Big-game trophy decision will be announced next week but will be very hard pressed to change my mind that this horror show in any way helps conservation of Elephants or any other animal.

What's the horror show? The shooting of elephants or the rules prohibiting the importation of big-game trophies? Also wtf. Trump is such a messy bitch. Retweeting people praising him but then hinting that he's going to reverse course again. A MESSY BITCH THAT LOVES DRAMA IS PRESIDENT.
posted by dis_integration at 4:28 PM on November 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

There's a good argument to be made here that all this nonsense has more to do with concerns that they goofed and lifted the [elephant trophy] ban without following the regulatory process required under the Administrative Procedure Act rather than any actual change of heart.

My bet is he's just really pissed off at his sons right now.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:29 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

In 1987, a young real estate developer traveled to the Soviet Union.

41 is young? Woohoo!

And an assessment of personality. For example: “Are pride, arrogance, egoism, ambition or vanity among subject’s natural characteristics?”

So the KGB basically based their archetypal target on Trump then?
posted by elsietheeel at 4:30 PM on November 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

Bruce Franks Jr is great. He is on the ground all the time for his constituents.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:30 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

More evidence to compete everywhere.

@WinWithJMC (pollster)
ALTERNATE LOUISIANA ELECTION HISTORY: Orleans Parish cast an unprecedented 22% of the statewide vote last night. In 2014 Senate runoff, only 8% of the vote was from Orleans. Had it been 22%, Mary Landrieu would have been re-elected by 8500 votes.


@PoliticsWolf
Retweeted John Couvillon
Dems got 44% in Louisiana treasurer’s race despite totally unheralded nominee. This is why Dems should strongly contest every race they can
posted by chris24 at 4:31 PM on November 19, 2017 [42 favorites]

Bruce Franks Jr is great. He is on the ground all the time for his constituents.

Yeah I can't stress enough how great the podcast interview is. Franks needs to go national is what I'm saying. He is very empathetic and non-combative so it sounds like he is building bridges and getting some of the conservative members to come around to his ideas.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:41 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is why Dems should strongly contest every race they can

One of many reasons, yes, which also include you can't govern if you don't fucking run anyone! Am I a political genius for cracking this ancient Sphinxian riddle?!

I still think there's a good malpractice case to be made against the former Dem leadership.*

*(Narrator: There isn't)
posted by petebest at 4:42 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

In fact, the Soviet Union was interested in him too, three decades earlier. The top level of the Soviet diplomatic service arranged his 1987 Moscow visit. With assistance from the KGB. It took place while Kryuchkov was seeking to improve the KGB's operational techniques in one particular and sensitive area. The spy chief wanted KGB staff abroad to recruit more Americans.

The pee-tape is an actual tape
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:43 PM on November 19, 2017 [19 favorites]

My translation of the higher education part of the tax plan:

HEY COLLEGE TOWNS FUCK OFF AND DIE
posted by Caxton1476 at 4:48 PM on November 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

>HEY COLLEGE TOWNS FUCK OFF AND DIE
posted by Caxton1476

The irony is, many of these towns are super conservative aside from the liberal bastion that is the campus. These towns also depend on the college for revenue, as many of the economies of these small, rural towns has dried up since manufacturing has moved to other parts of the world.

There is no way this tax plan won't immediately be felt in the MAGAsphere. How did the Freedom Caucus think this toxic hairball they hocked up is going to go anywhere?
posted by thebotanyofsouls at 4:51 PM on November 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

The hotel was linked to the glass-and-concrete Intourist complex next door and was— in effect—under KGB control. The Lenin suite would have been bugged.

You know that Trump, even the arguably sharper Trump of 30 years ago, wouldn't have even considered that his room would be under surveillance.
posted by elsietheeel at 4:53 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Oh, for those of us who thought Alabama was a lock for Doug Jones, your typical Alabama Republican.
posted by Talez at 4:54 PM on November 19, 2017 [33 favorites]

There is no way this tax plan won't immediately be felt in the MAGAsphere. How did the Freedom Caucus think this toxic hairball they hocked up is going to go anywhere?

Uhhhh.... If the MAGAsphere could correctly attribute effects to their proper causes we wouldn't be in this mess.
posted by Talez at 4:55 PM on November 19, 2017 [44 favorites]

HEY COLLEGE TOWNS FUCK OFF AND DIE

My memories of living in a college town are of local residents constantly complaining about grad students being ingrates who didn't appreciate the generous incomes they earned from the university (in the form of tuition waivers), looking to exempt students from local labor laws, and supporting any measure that discouraged students from voting where they lived. So...
posted by Ralston McTodd at 4:55 PM on November 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

These towns also depend on the college for revenue, as many of the economies of these small, rural towns has dried up since manufacturing has moved to other parts of the world.

Perhaps they can repurpose the college land for private prisons? Those generate revenue as well, and don't produce liberalism.
posted by acb at 4:57 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's anything but a lock for Jones and I sincerely hope no one is making the mistake of underestimating Republican party loyalty in a deep red state. Jones is going to have to run a stealth campaign while Moore goes loud. If Jones wins it'll be by a hair.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 4:58 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Perhaps they can repurpose the college land for private prisons? Those generate revenue as well, and don't produce liberalism.

0.7% of the population are already in jail. If you want any more and you're going to need to bring Draco back from the dead to write the laws.
posted by Talez at 4:59 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

How did the Freedom Caucus think this toxic hairball they hocked Koched up is going to go anywhere?

Delicious Koch money is all that matters, as stated plainly and openly by Lindsey Graham. The bill itself is just a few CNAP papers copy/pasted in by a couple of high interns. I mean, they're as surprised and concerned as anybody about this, but. Whaty'gonna do?
posted by petebest at 5:01 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm sure Trump could whip up an executive order that declares a few more things illegal.

MANDATORY JAIL TIME FOR WALKING AND CHEWING GUM AT THE SAME TIME
posted by flabdablet at 5:01 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

0.7% of the population are already in jail. If you want any more and you're going to need to bring Draco back from the dead to write the laws.

Narrator (from CinemaSins): Why would you even say that? *ding*
posted by loquacious at 5:02 PM on November 19, 2017 [2 favorites]

your typical Alabama Republican.

Pretty much. The pro-forced birth worldview frames the dilemma as Roy Moore's pedophilia only hurt some limited number of young girls, while abortion is a "holocaust" and thousands more "babies" will die if they don't make it illegal. I'm sure that person will very prayerfully vote for the child molester without any real hesitation, because every single embryo deserves the chance to, idk, grow up and get sexually abused by a public figure I guess.
posted by Ornate Rocksnail at 5:10 PM on November 19, 2017 [77 favorites]

Plus the nonzero percentage of pro-forced-birthers who are also of the right religious leanings to see nothing wrong with using the food court for other kinds of courtin'.
posted by delfin at 5:15 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Plus pro-lifers are only concerned with life until birth.
posted by rhizome at 5:25 PM on November 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

Honestly, a lot of "pro-lifers" don't even seem to be concerned with life until birth. They don't want to provide women with the necessary care to prevent miscarriages and infant mortality, for instance. They're concerned with limiting women's autonomy. They would have a very different policy agenda if they were concerned about the life of fetuses, let alone the life of anyone already born.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:34 PM on November 19, 2017 [111 favorites]

I've been thinking on Franken since my last comment in the last thread and have come to the opinion that I do not want him to resign, although I reserve the right to change my opinion if additional charges surface. I want him to go through the ethics probe and see what comes of it. I think the probe and any subsequent events should then determine if he should resign or choose to run again when his term is up.

As others have said, we can't rely on the arbitrary nature of self-determined punishment. Honorable people will be more likely to resign; dishonorable people will deny, fight and attack. There has to be a process for there to be any fairness.

The ethics probe could indeed be a shit show, or perhaps it won't be. Given the almost certainty that there are other congressional men walking on eggshells in this unique #MeToo moment, congressional women today have perhaps greater leverage than ever to be a force in determining how an ethics probe goes and what the tone is. It might be a watershed that would set a pattern for the future because this surely will not be the last harassment charge we see.

From my perspective - and I know others feel differently - this whole Franken incident is disappointing but unsurprising to me. I've been expecting some SNL-related shoes to drop and was pleasantly surprised that none had. Those bad old drug-fueled days were wild and in no way measure up to today's enlightened standards. But since he entered political life, I've thought Franken has had a good record as a serious and dedicated senator. I've perceived him to be a good ally to women and, although I can't know for sure, have felt he's basically a good person with admirable values . So that photo was a shock and a deep disappointment.

He fucked up, no doubt. But to me, it is not of the scale or gravity for immediate disqualification for public service. He apologized and the apology was accepted. I am troubled that media portrays him alongside a child predator like Moore and a serial abuser like Trump or Weinstein, as if the offenses are of equal gravity.

I realize others think differently, I feel I'm a bit at odds with most opinions here. My opinion is informed by my own life experience, which being on the older side of things, includes an unfortunate number of my own #MeToo events as well as numerous instances of work discrimination. But today, some of my best male allies and friends are men whose behavior ranged from offensive to oblivious 10 or 20 years ago. I believe that well meaning people have the capacity to learn, to self-correct and to change. I think Franken has that potential, but I remain watchfully alert.

One of the most powerful life lessons I've gleaned in a situation where a truly aggrieved people had a chance for change was what Nelson Mandela did when he came to power. He certainly would have been within his rights to exclude former tormentors from his government, but he chose a path of inclusivity. That's been a good lesson for me because, at heart, I have quite a propensity to bear grudges and look for vengeance. Based on his lesson, I favor a reconciliation approach to many past wrongs, exclusive of criminal offenses. I realize that some women and men who have suffered more deeply than I may not agree. (Plus, the analogy is a bit giddy on my part, women have yet to assume any real position of power. )

Overall, I'm heartened by this unique moment we find ourselves in, a real opportunity to see meaningful change for women. Despite the heavy litany of terrible wrongs, despite the disappointment I feel in learning horrible things about people I had liked, it's a healthy airing and a silver lining in these dark times. I hope we can make the most of it.
posted by madamjujujive at 5:42 PM on November 19, 2017 [116 favorites]

They're concerned with limiting women's autonomy.
...which is the natural intersection between "anti-abortion" and "molestation-tolerant".
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on November 19, 2017 [21 favorites]

When LaVar Ball is more restrained than you...

@MikeDelMoro (ABC)
I read the President's tweets to LaVar Ball just now over the phone & he questioned why the President wasn't focused on more important things.
- Ball said he wasn't inclined to get into a back-and-forth with the President's tweets, but said: “Did he go visit them in jail? Did you go visit them in jail? If you went to visit them in jail then I would say, ‘thank you’"
posted by chris24 at 5:52 PM on November 19, 2017 [22 favorites]

4th place is actually Canadian silver. (Bronze is Canadian gold.)
posted by sixswitch at 6:00 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Can we go back to talking about Chester Arthur?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:12 PM on November 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

0.7% of the population are already in jail. If you want any more and you're going to need to bring Draco back from the dead to write the laws.

Has anyone seen Sessions's long form birth certificate?
posted by ocschwar at 6:23 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

I feel you, Ellen in Alabama. Too tough to decide. Best to just sit this one out.
posted by Rykey at 6:25 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

A politician resigning is like a plea bargain. People who are really guilty get off easier, people who are innocent suffer, and people who are pushed into it never have a chance to defend themselves. We need less resigning and more recall votes.

I mean, does anyone really think that we are better off today having had Nixon resign vs removed? I'm sure it was easier at the time, but damn, if we don't want a democracy there are a million people lining up to be king.
posted by BeeDo at 6:32 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm almost crying with laughter over Ellen in Alabama. When Democrats are in power, there are fewer abortions. If your goal is to reduce abortions, you need to elect Democrats. That's pretty much it.
posted by xyzzy at 6:33 PM on November 19, 2017 [48 favorites]

To be clear: Roy Moore should be in prison if half the accusations are true.
posted by BeeDo at 6:33 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Oh, what do we have here...

ABC: Special Counsel sends wide-ranging request for documents to Justice Department

Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team investigating whether President Donald Trump sought to obstruct a federal inquiry into connections between his presidential campaign and Russian operatives has now directed the Justice Department to turn over a broad array of documents, ABC News has learned.

In particular, Mueller's investigators are keen to obtain emails related to the firing of FBI Director James Comey and the earlier decision of Attorney General Jeff Sessions to recuse himself from the entire matter, according to a source who has not seen the specific request but was told about it.

Issued within the past month, the directive marks the special counsel's first records request to the Justice Department, and it means Mueller is now demanding documents from the department overseeing his investigation.

posted by chris24 at 6:37 PM on November 19, 2017 [81 favorites]

Oh yes!

MOAR MULR PLS!
posted by darkstar at 6:47 PM on November 19, 2017 [9 favorites]

Mueller's gotta have his taxes by now. Can't wait for that to come out.
posted by downtohisturtles at 6:52 PM on November 19, 2017 [7 favorites]

From our favorite former federal prosecutor:

@renato_mariotti
1/ Mueller has asked the Justice Department for documents relating to the firing of Comey and the recusal of Sessions.
2/ As @abcnews correctly concludes, this is further evidence that Mueller is investigating whether Trump obstructed justice when he fired James Comey.
3/ The request for documents relating to Sessions’ recusal is interesting. Earlier reports indicated that Trump exploded when he found out about his recusal. That could be evidence of his state of mind because it is a highly unusual reaction to a recusal decision.
4/ Mueller is looking for communications between the White House and the DOJ about the recusal, which could reveal further evidence of Trump’s intent. Proving that Trump had “corrupt” intent when he fired Comey is the big hurdle that Mueller must clear.
5/ This adds to the already overwhelming evidence that Trump IS under investigation, despite White House claims to the contrary. Journalists should not print their assertion that Trump isn’t under investigation without providing this context, which highly suggests otherwise.
6/ Subjects of federal criminal investigations are typically not notified that they’re under investigation. /end
posted by chris24 at 7:10 PM on November 19, 2017 [67 favorites]

We're at a loss for what to do; walkouts are planned, but it's not like "graduate students" are a huge constituency.

Via a friend at University of Maryland: Tuition Waiver Tax Action Coordination - Google doc compiling information about actions planned for the coming weeks at NYU, Harvard, Georgetown, University of Oregon and other schools.
posted by ryanshepard at 7:12 PM on November 19, 2017 [10 favorites]

sixswitch: "4th place is actually Canadian silver. (Bronze is Canadian gold.)"

Hey, we beat the US (who weren't just supplanted by Germany but fell to sixth) and we all know that the only thing that matters.

I've got to admit a couple years ago we Canadians we starting to feel a bit of anxiousness because so much of our self worth is tied up with being better than America. Not only did we have Harper in power here but you guys had Obama. And you were moving forward on immigration reform, were within shouting distance of implementing if not single payer and least universal healthcare and you were making in roads on legalizing gay marriage and pot. Plus you were about to elect the most qualified candidate for president probably ever and they weren't an old white guy.

But now I just got to say thanks for taking the pressure off. And plan your summer vacation for post Canada Day 2018; it's going to be really mellow around here for a while.
posted by Mitheral at 7:14 PM on November 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

Okay, at this point we know (as does Mueller) that:

1. Trump fired Comey because he was concerned about the Russia probe. We know it because, in addition to all of the circumstantial evidence for it, Trump himself actually said so on national television.

and

2. Mueller is actively pursuing documentation around this very act.


At this point, regardless of where the Russia probe itself ends up, how does the above not end up with an Obstruction charge?
posted by darkstar at 7:16 PM on November 19, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Nadsat dictionary has “horrorshow” derived from хорошо, so he’s saying killing elephants is awesome, but not great for conservation.
posted by um at 7:17 PM on November 19, 2017 [18 favorites]

So these requests come out after he's returned from Asia with Hope Hicks, who was a. on the plane when they had the mystery meeting before Comey's firing and b. interviewed by Mueller this week. Sounds like someone is spilling some tea.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:17 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Mueller's gotta have his taxes by now.

My impression is that the IRS locks this stuff down, so I imagine he'll wait to have iron-clad justification. I mean, given the context, it's probably the last thing he'll need, and besides why get caught up in all the little warrens and threads that are undoubtedly running through Trump's tax strategies and stay focussed on the stuff you've been commissioned for and will likely lead to the same places. Muller doesn't need to be sidetracked by "Trump deducted three cases of Red Vines in 2011? WTF is that about?"
posted by rhizome at 7:18 PM on November 19, 2017

IIRC it was reported weeks ago that Mueller and his team have been working with the top tax investigators it the treasury for a while.
posted by VTX at 7:21 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

At this point, regardless of where the Russia probe itself ends up, how does the above not end up with an Obstruction charge?

I personally think we'll get the whole enchilada; obstruction, money laundering and evidence of collusion. Obstruction, as you said is seemingly obvious. Money laundering seems very probable. And with collusion, there's just too much smoke, too many small fires, and too many lies about the smoke and fire for there not to be a blaze somewhere. Plus you've never gone wrong assuming the worst about Trump & Co.

The issue is whether a Republican congress does anything about it.
posted by chris24 at 7:22 PM on November 19, 2017 [34 favorites]

IIRC it was reported weeks ago that Mueller and his team have been working with the top tax investigators it the treasury for a while.

My assumption is that these are people who know what leads to tax crimes, not so much that they'd be used to backtrack from his returns and double-checking Trump's numbers like glorified auditors. They know a lot about symptoms of the disease, so to speak.
posted by rhizome at 7:26 PM on November 19, 2017 [3 favorites]

Fortune 9/26/17: IRS Gives Trump Staff Financials to Mueller's Russia Investigation

The IRS has given Special Counsel Robert Mueller financial information for members of the Trump presidential campaign and administration. The documents may include tax returns and supporting information such as real estate or banking records, reports CNN.

The disclosure of the IRS’s cooperation with the special counsel investigation comes after it was recently revealed that Mueller’s investigators have locked in on former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who has extensive financial ties to Russia, and even allegedly offered to privately brief a friend of Putin’s in July 2016.

It’s not clear exactly whose records the special counsel was given, reports CNN, which notes that IRS Criminal Investigation agents have been working alongside the FBI on a Manafort probe since before the election. They are also sharing information on former Trump administration national security advisor Michael Flynn with Mueller’s team. Flynn’s finances have raised suspicions after it was revealed he received money from Russian interests before the campaign.

CNN also notes that the special counsel investigators may have requested President Trump’s tax returns, but if they did the request would have likely needed to be signed off on by Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. Normally that approval would be the responsibility of the attorney general, but Jeff Sessions has recused himself from the investigation over the role he played in the 2016 presidential election.

posted by chris24 at 7:30 PM on November 19, 2017 [33 favorites]

As I said in the last thread, I expect to see a bunch of ridiculous sexual harassment charges from the Right. Purposely ridiculous.

You forgot to include: "I'M JUST SAYIN'."

Of course the allegations are going to be "ridiculous sexual harassment charges". Because that's what harassers have said about sexual harassment for decades. The difference is that for one brief moment, people believed women. At least until it was discovered to be inconvenient to the wrong people. Then it's back to the same old "you can't believe these women".

Note that none of the major sexual harassment and assault cases like. Weinstein or Hills involved official investigations. The ones that did, such as Cosby and Ghomeshi, resulted in not guilty verdicts. Asking for a Senate investigation might as well be saying "I want my guy declared innocent."

But by all means let's go for those senate investigation committees, because the number one thing we need when an old white guy is accused of sexual harassment is a group of old white vuys to look at the evidence, then nod sagely and say "Harrumph. There's nothing to this story. Harrumph Harrumph."

Because the tendency to treat women as less than human is bipartisan.
posted by happyroach at 8:40 PM on November 19, 2017 [14 favorites]

Oh we just got played like a damn fiddle. First the Clinton stuff gets dredged up to prime the pump, then Roger Stone tweets about the Franken stuff 12 hours before it dropped to gin up the wingers so they could distract from Roy Moore and cut off any momentum we had against the tax bill by getting us to squabble.

I don't know what the answer is. I can think of ruthless shit that might work, but doing that makes us no better than the shitheads who throw people under the bus because they mean it. These discussions need to happen, but care must be taken to avoid falling into traps that lead us to work into their hands even as it seems like we're doing the right thing.

We must find a way to have the reckoning we need without enabling the deniers.
posted by wierdo at 8:42 PM on November 19, 2017 [15 favorites]

After Roy Moore threatens to sue AL.com, the publisher puts him on notice to preserve all documents for their countersuit

"After his lawyers threatened to sue AL.com for their rigorous reporting of the multiply sourced allegations of his sexual assaults on very young girls, AL.com's lawyers informed Moore's counsel to expect a Rule 11 motion to censure them for their frivolous threats, and put Moore and his lawyers on notice that they "must now preserve all materials, documents, writings, recordings, statements, notes, letters, journals, diaries, calendars, emails, photographs, videos, computers, cell phones, electronic data and all other information that is or could remotely be relevant in any manner to any of the claims that [Moore's lawyers] have made."
posted by madamjujujive at 8:44 PM on November 19, 2017 [76 favorites]

Normally that approval would be the responsibility of the attorney general, but Jeff Sessions has recused himself from the investigation over the role he played in the 2016 presidential election.

Sometimes I get little reminders that I'm only adjacent to the darkest timeline, you know?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 8:47 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Re: how Republicans see abortion - I remember hearing about pro-life people in my country whose approach was that the best way to stop abortions was to give the women looking for abortions a better option. That's not a view I necessarily agree with, but it's one I can respect.

American pro-life people aren't like that. Firstly, I recall somewhere from a quarter to a half of all fertilised eggs never bond with the uterine wall and get flushed out in the menstrual fluid. This is a tremendous 'loss of life', and it wouldn't be hard to get liberals on board with improving the reliability of fertilisation. But that never seems to be an issue.

So, okay, what do they do to give pregnant women better options so abortion is less necessary? Not a lot! Support for working pregnant women or a robust adoption network aren't legislative goals either. So what is the actual goal of the pro-life movement if it's not to reduce abortions?

The only conclusion I can come to is that demonising abortion is the goal, and the reasoning is back-fitted to support it. Abortions are, of course, particularly helpful for poor women, who are acceptable targets. This fits with the timing: abortion only became an issue for evangelicals and fundamentalists in the 70s, and it took several years for the switch to take effect. The late 60s and early 70s, of course, were a devastating blow to evangelical morality as the country firmly rejected their position on civil rights, and then their guy in the White House, Richard Nixon, ended up being a criminal. I strongly suspect that the pro-life position in America is primarily there so evangelicals feel self-righteous again.
posted by Merus at 8:54 PM on November 19, 2017 [25 favorites]

Small bright spot: Democrat Allison Ikley-Freeman defeated Republican Brian O’Hara for a seat on Oklahoma's state senate. She won by 31 votes. She's only the third openly gay person to be elected to the Oklahoma legislature, and she brings the D side of the senate to 8 (with 39 Republicans).

No unflippable seats. Every vote matters.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:01 PM on November 19, 2017 [90 favorites]

I strongly suspect that the pro-life position in America is primarily there so evangelicals feel self-righteous again.

the purpose of the antichoice agenda in the US is to actively harm women. that's it, that's the whole thing.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:13 PM on November 19, 2017 [47 favorites]

Mod note: 2015 claims of sexual harassment against computer programmers are at best tangential to this thread.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:23 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Contraception is the absolute best way to prevent abortions. Antichoice groups oppose contraception because it "rewards bad behavior." They also consistently vote against programs that help pregnant women, babies and children access health care, food and shelter. Therefore they are really about punishing women having sex, not about preventing abortions or "saving babies." They don't give a fuck about babies. Babies are useful clubs for beating women with, full stop.

Anyhoo, we had a Reproductive Justice Sunday at my church today and took up a collection for the Texas Equal Access fund for women seeking abortions, and last night I went to a PP fundraiser, so I can tell you that a lot of women are paying attention. Our shitty shitty Lege is going to keep trying to turn us into handmaidens but we're not going to stop fighting.
posted by emjaybee at 9:29 PM on November 19, 2017 [36 favorites]

How Millenniasl Are Trying To Revive The Labor Movement
posted by The Whelk at 9:41 PM on November 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

Talez: "Oh, for those of us who thought Alabama was a lock for Doug Jones, your typical Alabama Republican."

You certainly are reading a very different Metafilter than I do. On the one I read, opinions range all the way from "Moore is guaranteed to win it" to "Jones has a 1 chance in a billion of winning."
posted by Chrysostom at 9:49 PM on November 19, 2017 [1 favorite]

Our opinions run the gamut from A to B.
posted by Justinian at 9:52 PM on November 19, 2017 [6 favorites]

Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick: "Can we go back to talking about Chester Arthur?"

Franklin Pierce is interesting, too!
posted by Chrysostom at 9:53 PM on November 19, 2017 [5 favorites]

Axios:

Members of Congress with histories of mistreating women should be extremely nervous. Major outlets, including CNN, are dedicating substantial newsroom resources to investigating sexual harassment allegations against numerous lawmakers. A Republican source told me he’s gotten calls from well-known D.C. reporters who are gathering stories about sleazy members.

I find it interesting that, unless i missed something, no GOP Senator has called for Franken to resign. Surely it can't be because many of them have something of their own to hide.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:59 PM on November 19, 2017 [20 favorites]

Steve Mnuchin is an idiot: “I didn't realize that the pictures were public and going on the Internet and viral,” Mnuchin said on Fox News’ Sunday. (here's the interview transcript)

Why did he think a photographer from the Associated Press, along with several TV cameras, were present at his photo op if he didn't think the pictures would be public? Can it really be November of 2017 and he has no basic conception of how the media functions?
posted by zachlipton at 10:06 PM on November 19, 2017 [59 favorites]

Do They Really Believe Abortion Is Murder?

...the leaders of the abortion criminalization movement have consistently put their political weight behind policies which make little or no sense if they genuinely think that abortion is identical to child murder. And those same leaders routinely endorse policies that make a lot of sense if their goal is to punish women who have sex.

To be fair, this is never phrased as “punishing” women by pro-lifers; what I’ve heard again and again from pro-lifers is that women should be made to “take responsibility for their actions” (by “actions,” they mean having sex), or that abortion is wrong because it lets women “avoid the consequences.”

So what motivates pro-lifers: the belief that women should be forced to face consequences for having sex, or the belief that abortion is exactly like child murder? Let's review.

posted by kirkaracha at 10:09 PM on November 19, 2017 [32 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** PA-18 special -- The Democrats picked their candidate to fill the Tim Murphy seat today (the GOP had picked a conservative state rep last week). They went Conor Lamb, a Marine vet and former federal prosecutor, who also has the pluses of being from a local political family and Catholic (both big in the Pgh area). Lamb is generally seen as the strongest candidate.

** 2018 House:

-- DecisionDesk has moved Democrats into the lead for House control for the first time, giving them a 51% chance of retaking.

-- Dems see anger over the GOP tax bill as key in winning suburbs.

** Odds & ends:

-- New Orleans elected their first female mayor over the weekend. LaToya Cantrell is seen as the more progressive candidate, and has pledged to push criminal justice reform as mayor.

-- The FEC is moving towards requiring disclaimers on political ads on social media.

posted by Chrysostom at 10:18 PM on November 19, 2017 [41 favorites]

Can it really be November of 2017 and he has no basic conception of how the media functions?

No, it's because it's November of 2017 and as a Republican he knows that trolling both winds up the opposition and appeals to his base.
posted by Pinback at 10:45 PM on November 19, 2017 [4 favorites]

Natt Garun at The Verge: “Y Combinator has quietly cut ties with [Part-Time Advisor] Peter Thiel”
posted by Going To Maine at 11:36 PM on November 19, 2017 [11 favorites]

She's ba-ack...Woman with 'F__k Trump' sticker adds new one: 'F__k Troy Nehls'.

She's only out on bail but still.
posted by scalefree at 11:50 PM on November 19, 2017 [53 favorites]

Remember, kids: the First Amendment is there to protect Nazis, not to protect you.
posted by flabdablet at 3:38 AM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

Meanwhile, here's an update on a lesser figure from the Trump campaign:

Newsweek—Trump Campaign Coordinator and 'Family Values' Republican Pleads Guilty To Child Sex Trafficking, Faces Life In Prison: "Ralph Shortey, former Oklahoma state senator and a county campaign coordinator for President Donald Trump’s campaign last year, will plead guilty to a child sex trafficking offense for soliciting sex from a 17-year-old boy in March."

Shortey's most notable legislative accomplishment was a bill to ban the manufacture or sale of food that contained aborted human fetuses. (previously)

The best people, all the way down.
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:49 AM on November 20, 2017 [57 favorites]

Call me crazy – go ahead, you probably wouldn't be wrong – but today I feel like this.
posted by perspicio at 3:52 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

(I know. Crazy. Just let me have my moment.)
posted by perspicio at 3:58 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Ralph Shortey... charges included:

"Engaging in prostitution within 1,000 feet of a church"

Is that just an Oklahoma thing? Like it's apparently illegal to have an ice-cream cone in your back pocket in Alabama? States of disgrace: strange American laws – in pictures (Grauniad)
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:36 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Considering the history of some churches that's probably a pretty reasonable law even if prostitution was otherwise legal.
posted by Mitheral at 4:45 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

There's lots of states that have laws re: behavior near churches. To name just one, here in Mississippi, the penalties for sale of marijuana are much harsher if the sale takes place within 1,500 feet of a church.
posted by thebrokedown at 4:48 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Discouraging prostitution near buildings where children are coming in and out seems worthwhile to me.
posted by EarBucket at 4:59 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Plus you were about to elect the most qualified candidate for president probably ever and they weren't an old white guy.

But now I just got to say thanks for taking the pressure off. And plan your summer vacation for post Canada Day 2018; it's going to be really mellow around here for a while.

Ah get stuffed ye kind, well-kept, financially responsible bastards. An gie us a coffee crisp as well eh.
posted by petebest at 5:18 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Mod note: A few deleted. Let's please drop the extended derail about laws regarding specific illegal actions near churches. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:42 AM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Today in "Trump has more in common with Kim Jong Un than differences" news:

@NewDay: Trump voter panelist: "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"
posted by zombieflanders at 5:58 AM on November 20, 2017 [37 favorites]

I think most people here know that before he had to divest his business ties, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin was involved in the entertainment industry. I think many people here also know that Brett Ratner is right up there with Harvey Weinstein as a known sexual predictor. I'm posting this because I'm not sure how many people know that until last June, Steve Mnuchin was Brett Ratner 's business partner:

Hollywood scandal reaches business partner of Trump’s Treasury Secretary (Kevin G. Hall And David Goldstein, McClatchy)

Mnuchin until June co-owned RatPac-Dune Entertainment, a film financing company that launched a partnership in 2013 with Warner Brothers to bankroll up to 75 films. Mnuchin himself was partnered with filmmaker Brett Ratner and Australian billionaire James Packer. [...]

The explosive allegations against Ratner don’t mention his friend and business partner Mnuchin, who was a key part of the $450 million Warner Brothers deal.

A Treasury spokeswoman, in a statement to McClatchy late Wednesday, said Mnuchin had no knowledge of his partner’s alleged improprieties.

“Mr. Ratner was an investor in RatPac-Dune Entertainment, and Secretary Mnuchin was the Managing Partner. Beyond having read allegations in the press, Secretary Mnuchin is unaware of any misconduct by Mr. Ratner,” said the statement.

In light of the new allegations about Brett Ratner and Russell Simmons, I think Mr. Mnuchin should be hounded with questions before being allowed to get a single word in about Trump's agenda.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:00 AM on November 20, 2017 [39 favorites]

New Franken allegations, this time from 2010. At this point I think it's clear that he should resign. Even beyond a tactical level (Dem governor picking the replacement, with a strong chance of retaining in 2018), I think the cost of protecting Franken -- the potential damage to the force propelling recriminations against those in power who have sexually harassed and assaulted men and women -- is much too high.
posted by miltthetank at 6:33 AM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

If you tax the rich, they won't leave: US data contradicts millionaires' threats
Migration is a young person’s game, and moving overwhelmingly occurs when people are starting their careers. By the time people hit their early forties, PhDs, college grads and high school drop-outs all show the same low rate of migration. Typically, millionaires are society’s highly educated at an advanced career stage. They are typically the late-career working rich: established professionals in management, finance, consulting, medicine, law and similar fields. And they have low migration because they are both socially and economically embedded in place. ...

This shows a kind of unexpected genius behind taxes on the very highest incomes. A tax on million-dollar income serves as an intergenerational transfer, since those who pay it are the late-career working rich: socially and economically embedded in the place.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:34 AM on November 20, 2017 [49 favorites]

Per the CNN article, the new Franken allegation is from Lindsay Menz. She told multiple people at the time that Franken grabbed her butt, AND posted about it on Facebook in a comment that is still up. This is a well documented allegation.

And he was already a senator then.
posted by medusa at 6:52 AM on November 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

> "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

When I clicked the link, I had no fucking idea it was missing the [real] tag. Honestly.
posted by klarck at 6:54 AM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

"I feel badly that Ms. Menz came away from our interaction feeling disrespected."

'I'm sorry that you got your feelings hurt' is not a valid apology.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:55 AM on November 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

To be clear: Roy Moore should be in prison if half the accusations are true.

Moore won't resign unless Franken does.

So at this point, we have acknowledged sexual predators, and for Moore that indeed rises to criminality, proudly representing the people. That is the status quo, and seems that it will stay so.

This is America in 2017: assaulting women is maybe something to talk about, but not much more than that.

The real reason for this, of course, is Trump. This is all a proxy debate about having elected a proud assaulter-in-chief. You can't talk about whether Moore or Franken should go without reaching back a whole year (yes, I know, so many Scaramuccis) and demanding that Trump should go. And since that didn't happen and won't happen - it's what, number 23 on the list of reasons Trump should go? but in turn that hasn't happened and won't happen because Republican Unity - we live in a world where women can be assaulted without paying any kind of penalty. A headline or two, but -- things stay as they are.

This is the status quo that I live in in 2017: women are confirmed as second class. Do what you want. Because Trump.

Fucking 2017.
posted by Dashy at 6:56 AM on November 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Requesting a link to separate Franken thread, s'il vous plaît.
posted by petebest at 6:57 AM on November 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Moore won't resign unless Franken does.
posted by petebest at 6:59 AM on November 20, 2017 [41 favorites]

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin on Sunday said he takes it as a compliment that some people suggested that he and his wife looked like villains from a "James Bond" movie when they posed with newly printed currency.

Called it.
posted by octothorpe at 7:01 AM on November 20, 2017 [25 favorites]

guillotine futures way up this morning
posted by entropicamericana at 7:03 AM on November 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

Mod note: Requesting a link to separate Franken thread, s'il vous plaît.

I'm gonna suggest instead that we try just not talking more about Franken until there's something new and substantial to talk about. There's been a bunch of conversation about him and that situation in this and the previous catch-all thread, and not much has happened since; a new thread to duplicate that conversation seems unnecessary and continuing to duplicate/rehash it in here seems likewise. This is a line of thinking that applies more broadly than to just the Franken thing and this may be something for further MetaTalk discussion soon, but in any case, yes: I think the solution to endless retreading of this fairly static Franken situation filling up the thread can just be to drop it for now and let the thread be quiet if things are relatively slow out there at the moment.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:11 AM on November 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Serious but stupid question: Why isn't Roy Moore being charged with crimes?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 7:13 AM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Requesting a link to separate Franken thread, s'il vous plaît.

Yes. It should be its own topic now. I understand the importance to US politics but it is more than just politics and deserves the broader and deeper conversations. Though I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds the surrounding discussions difficult and stressful. I'd like to be able to choose though and not feel like I have to give up on following all the other political goings on which has been happening.

Doesn't mean that it shouldn't be mentioned here. The separate thread on Moore is an example of what I'm suggesting.
posted by Jalliah at 7:13 AM on November 20, 2017

If you tax the rich, they won't leave: US data contradicts millionaires' threats

This, in light of things like Sarah Huckabee-Sanders' weird threat via parable, kills me. How is "I'm taking my prosperity and leaving" not screamed as a talking point as super-unpatriotic at every turn?

"These millionaires claim to support the troops—but then threaten to defund them by not paying taxes on their wealth."

"These wealthy folks love America so much, they're threatening to leave it if they have to pay for the privilege of living here."

"Apparently being patriotic means loving the flag—but not wanting to pay your share to the country it stands for."

"Maybe those kneeling NFL players could get some respect if they threaten to stop paying their taxes. It works for these wealthy Republicans."

If I can think of these off the top of my head, lying in bed in my pajamas here, I am certain smarter, more influential people can think of better ones. TALKING POINTS! GO!!!
posted by Rykey at 7:14 AM on November 20, 2017 [78 favorites]

this fairly static Franken situation

Not static. New groping allegation, this morning. Can we or can we not discuss it here?
posted by zarq at 7:15 AM on November 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

I had the same question as zarq.
posted by medusa at 7:16 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

This morning I had to stop off at an auto parts store where FOX was playing. They had a panel discussing Roy Moore's history of sexually assaulting children, they called it pedophilia, and not a single person on the panel had anything good to say about Moore.

But the Governor of Alabama is voting for him anyway.
posted by sotonohito at 7:18 AM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

I'm asking not just because the situation isn't static, but because the alleged incident took place while he was a Senator. This changes the situation somewhat -- Franken was not an elected official in 2006 when the Tweeden photo was taken. But he was in 2010.
posted by zarq at 7:18 AM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mod note: The allegation has been noted. If you have anything new to say beyond 1) I am disappointed in Franken 2) men are terrible 3) he should resign 4) he should not resign 5) right-wing media is terrible 6) we have to be better than Republicans 7) no we don't that's unilateral disarmament, you may say it, otherwise retreading the same seven points for another 400 comments is a no.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 7:21 AM on November 20, 2017 [62 favorites]

> Serious but stupid question: Why isn't Roy Moore being charged with crimes?

Statue of limitations mostly. The most serious allegations happened pre-1985, when the statute of limitations was only three years.
posted by papercrane at 7:22 AM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

> "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

I’m adding this to my list of things ostensible Christians have said since Trump started running for President that are waaaaaay more blasphemous than anything my atheist ass could come up with.
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:24 AM on November 20, 2017 [72 favorites]

Serious but stupid question: Why isn't Roy Moore being charged with crimes?

.....I thought he was?

Way upthread someone spoke about how the middle class would be screwed over and that "their wrath would be scary to behold". I honestly would not be surprised if there were a similar reaction if Roy Moore gets elected.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:33 AM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Thank you, Eyebrows.

I do think this new allegation changes things. The Senate Ethics Committee has conducted two investigations in recent years that led to Senators resigning for sexual impropriety. Both were elected officials when the incidents took place.

John Ensign had an affair with a former campaign aide in 2007 while he was a Senator, then was accused of finding work for the husband of the woman he had slept with. He resigned after investigations were launched by the FBI, the DOJ and the FEC.

Bob Packwood was accused of serial sexual harassment 25 years ago and resigned in disgrace. 40 women came forward. He'd also kept a daily diary, where he boasted of his activities. Worth noting that William Safire defended him endlessly at the time in the NY Times, saying the accusations were politically motivated and calling them "pure McCarthyism."
posted by zarq at 7:35 AM on November 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

we live in a world where women can be assaulted without paying any kind of penalty.

We have been for a long time. Not to beat a dead horse, but truly, this is not news to most women. I think it has a lot to do with why some women go full victim-blamer/Republican (denial) or just don't vote (despair).

The fact that men have actually lost their jobs/faced any kind of public opprobation is new, but I'm sure I'm not the only woman who wonders when the media will lose interest, it will blow over and the status quo will reassert itself. It's a logical thing for us to wonder. We've been living this reality for a long time and you can only get your hopes dashed so many times.

The upside of this is that we've been fighting the odds for so long that even if nothing more happens, those of us committed to changing this shit will simply shrug and keep going. Because otherwise nothing will ever change.
posted by emjaybee at 7:35 AM on November 20, 2017 [29 favorites]

Not static. New groping allegation, this morning. Can we or can we not discuss it here?

One thing we should not do is hold a debate about a Franken thread here. If there needs to be a debate, the place for it is MeTa.
posted by scalefree at 7:40 AM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

NYT's Glenn Thrush has been suspended over multiple sexual harassment allegations.
posted by zombieflanders at 7:51 AM on November 20, 2017 [26 favorites]

Thrush's response to the screenshots is infuriating, if predictable:

“I don’t lure anybody ever,” he wrote, according to screenshots provided by Padró Ocasio. “I got drunk because I got some shitty health news. And I am acutely aware of the hurdles that young women face in this business and have spent the better part of 20 years advocating for women journalists.”

"Harassment? But I'm an ally!" Do these guys have a script that they're all passing around for the worst possible way to respond to these things?
posted by tonycpsu at 7:55 AM on November 20, 2017 [25 favorites]

I am shocked that someone who constantly treated innocent to minor acts by a woman as being as bad or worse than the most monstrous by a man has issues with women.
posted by chris24 at 7:57 AM on November 20, 2017 [26 favorites]

This Vox article goes into detail with the allegations. He forced himself on women then bad-mouthed them to male colleagues at work. Nauseating. He needs to go.
posted by aiglet at 7:58 AM on November 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

An ally, with notably rare exceptions.
posted by rhizome at 8:03 AM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Senator Amy Klobuchar will now sponsor an upcoming bill that aims to help survivors of sexual assault. The bill was written and would have been championed by Senator Franken.

Abby Honold was a student at the University of Minnesota in 2014 when she was raped by fellow student Daniel Drill-Mellum, who had once interned for Franken. She spoke to Franken after the the Minneapolis Police Department refused to charge Drill-Mellum. Franken worked with his aides to draft legislation that would create grants for law enforcement personnel to train them to work with survivors of sexual assault.

When news of the recent allegations broke, Ms. Honold sought out a different Senator to help get the bill passed.
posted by zarq at 8:06 AM on November 20, 2017 [30 favorites]

The bill was written and would have been championed by Senator Franken.

They can still name it after him
posted by beerperson at 8:15 AM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

"Va. Elections boss just said there were 83 voters wrongly assigned in a House district where the Republican is currently leading by 82 votes." @AlanSuderman

Ugh.
posted by slipthought at 8:15 AM on November 20, 2017 [34 favorites]

Stephen Wolf‏ @PoliticsWolf

"This is a major screwup by election administrators in Virginia, & it may have swung the race once the recount is over. If Dems won this contest, it'd cost the GOP their 51-49 majority"
posted by slipthought at 8:17 AM on November 20, 2017 [48 favorites]

One more comment from Stephen Wolf on Twitter, "Wrongly assigning voters to the incorrect district could be grounds for voiding this election & ordering a new one depending on particulars of Virginia state law"

and now I'll stop Twitter bombing
posted by slipthought at 8:30 AM on November 20, 2017

Related to the Alabama election, though not Moore himself (edited for readability):

@Taniel:

This resolution to an Alabama story is a huge relief — but not before Secretary of State [John Merrill] got the voter intimidating-fraud headlines he wanted. A quick recap.

• Act I: this year, the AL legislature passed a ban on voters crossing over to vote in one primary, & then other party's runoff.
• Act II: Merrill made a list of 700 ppl who he said engaged in "crossover voting" (1st election law applied). He wanted them prosecuted for felonies, up to 10 years in prison.
• Act III: Probate county judges pushed back. Many insisted the list was just wrong.
• Act IV (new): Probate judges did confirm 140 crossover voters—but in no case did they recommend prosecution, *provisionally* ending situation.

What we're left with: Headlines labeling voting acts felonies & threatening people with 10 years in jail, Merrill insisting he'll be vigilant in future. Voter intimidation playbook. Especially concerning as AL has a complex election calendar, & distinction between primary rounds & general election may not be crystal-clear. But left to press to include disclaimers like this mid-article. This is part of a pattern of suppressive tactics that Merrill has pursued, so something to keep close eye on—[and] not just until [AL Senate election] is resolved.

posted by zombieflanders at 8:35 AM on November 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

"This is a major screwup by election administrators in Virginia, & it may have swung the race once the recount is over. If Dems won this contest, it'd cost the GOP their 51-49 majority"

This is how they are actually stealing the elections - by tiny and semi-plausible 'accidents'. It's why voting is important - the margins have to be big enough to not be susceptible to this kind of tinkering.
posted by winna at 8:36 AM on November 20, 2017 [81 favorites]

And it kinda fits with gerrymandering and such, right? Make elections as complicated as possible so as to save room for manipulation.
posted by rhizome at 8:42 AM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Article on another of Trump's white dude judicial picks that just "happens" to be a bigot who loves him some voter suppression: After the INDY’s Report About Judicial Nominee Thomas Farr Misleading a Senate Committee, Senator Dianne Feinstein Wants Answers

Farr, sixty-three, was picked by Trump to become a federal district judge in the Eastern District of North Carolina this year. In Farr's response to questions from Feinstein, he said he had didn't learn in advance of the more than one hundred thousand postcards the late Senator Jesse Helms's U.S. Senate campaign sent to primarily to African-American voters in 1990, insinuating that they would be arrested if they voted. In his role as campaign counsel, Farr said, his first knowledge came in a complaint about the cards from the federal Department of Justice.

The Judiciary Committee voted along partisan lines in October to send Farr's nomination to the full Senate, but no time has been set for a vote.

The Helms campaign was working feverishly in October 1990 to defeat former Charlotte mayor Harvey Gantt, an African American. (This was the campaign that produced the notoriously racist “Hands” ad.) Farr has long said he had no role in sending the postcards. But a former Department of Justice prosecutor repeated to the INDY this week what he had told this reporter in 2009—that Farr knew about the postcards well in advance of the mailing, which implies that he misled the Senate committee about his involvement.

Farr has not responded to requests for comment from the INDY. But Raleigh political consultant Carter Wrenn, a Farr colleague from Helms campaigns in the eighties and nineties, has taken responsibility for the mailers and insisted that Farr wasn’t involved.

In more recent years, Farr has also defended North Carolina Republicans’ racial gerrymandering and voter ID efforts, which has aroused the ire of civil rights groups.

BTW this is yet another example of the "moderates" Flake and Sasse giving the thumbs-up to lifetime appointments for the most awful people Trump sends their way, regardless of their constant mewling about how horrible he is.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:44 AM on November 20, 2017 [41 favorites]

This is how they are actually stealing the elections - by tiny and semi-plausible 'accidents'. It's why voting is important - the margins have to be big enough to not be susceptible to this kind of tinkering.

This is in Fredericksburg. Fredericksburg's elections are formally nonpartisan but, per the FEC, all three members of the electoral board are Democratic donors.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:50 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yes, but the districts were drawn by the overwhelmingly (at the time) GOP legislature.
posted by zombieflanders at 8:52 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

This adds to the already overwhelming evidence that Trump IS under investigation, despite White House claims to the contrary. Journalists should not print their assertion that Trump isn’t under investigation without providing this context, which highly suggests otherwise.

I have no earthly idea why every time Trump says "no collusion" reporters don't fire back with "I noticed you're not denying obstruction of justice."
posted by Room 641-A at 8:54 AM on November 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump voter panelist: "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:33.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:54 AM on November 20, 2017 [44 favorites]

lalex: This sounds...smart? And competent? I'm shocked.

If they only had time to tie in hits to higher education, maybe include a cameo from Fred Vautour, a janitor at Boston College whose work there put his five children through college at that institution, just ahead of the GOP tax plan would make that wholly unfeasible for him and others like him.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:14 AM on November 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

I guess we're going to see some public McMaster "I love Trump he's the best' thing soon.
posted by Jalliah at 9:20 AM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

McMeatloaf
posted by tonycpsu at 9:20 AM on November 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

took place on July 18 at the Washington, D.C. restaurant Tosca

How... dramatic.
posted by Molesome at 9:20 AM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Trump designates North Korea a "state sponsor of terrorism" triggering further economic sanctions.
posted by hexaflexagon at 9:23 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

McMeatloaf

Worse punishment: McRib!
posted by wenestvedt at 9:25 AM on November 20, 2017

Steve Mnuchin is an idiot: “I didn't realize that the pictures were public and going on the Internet and viral,” Mnuchin said on Fox News’ Sunday. (here's the interview transcript)

Why did he think a photographer from the Associated Press, along with several TV cameras, were present at his photo op if he didn't think the pictures would be public? Can it really be November of 2017 and he has no basic conception of how the media functions?

I know it can be hard to parse when these buffoons are not being stupid because so many of them are incompetent richies who have failed upwards all their lives, but sometimes they use this perception for their dog whistles. This is absolutely one of those cases.

Mnuchin and his wife are long-time glory hounds and well aware of the meaning when people take pictures. Maybe they're so self-absorbed that they spend most of their day having forgotten how much of the planet completely fucking loathes them and thus are unable to think "how might this reflect badly on me?" while things are happening.

But the public nature of those pictures? They knew full well. When they say shit like this about "on the internet and viral" that's all about signaling boo hiss evil reporter scum helping the libbies crap on us to their team. That's not surprise or ignorance, it's just part of the daily warfare on an informed public.
posted by phearlez at 9:25 AM on November 20, 2017 [59 favorites]

Is there any evidence North Korea has assassinated anyone other than their own defectors and citizens in the last 20 years?
posted by zarq at 9:27 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is Trump's NASA Nominee Ready to Tackle Climate Change? (Eric Niiler for Wired, Nov. 20, 2017)

SCIENCE AND THE people who study it have taken a pretty big beating during the first year of the Trump administration. Trump has appointed climate science skeptics and outright deniers to head the Environmental Protection Agency (Scott Pruitt), the Department of Energy (Rick Perry), and the Council on Environmental Quality (Kathleen Hartnett). Trump’s nominee to head the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration—the nation’s lead agency on both short-term weather and long-term climate forecasting—is a businessman who hasn't uttered a single public statement on climate change (it's Barry Myers, CEO of AccuWeather, a private weather forecasting company, who could be the second non-scientist to head NOAA, and probably the first who could personally benefit from direct access to weather data -- ED). And Trump still hasn't picked a White House science advisor, someone Republican and Democratic presidents have called on to respond to everything from killer hurricanes to tropical disease outbreaks.

Next up on the list of appointments comes NASA.... Maybe a glass half-full is better than none at all. At least that’s how some observers in Washington see the nomination of Jim Bridenstine, an Oklahoma congressman and Trump’s pick to head NASA.

After coming to Washington as a first-term House member in 2013, Bridenstine took to the House floor to demand that President Obama apologize to his Oklahoma constituents for spending more money on climate research than tornado warning systems. He also claimed that global temperature changes “correlate to sun output and global ocean cycles.”

It’s that kind of outlook that worried Rachel Licker, a climate scientist at the Union of Concerned Scientists, as she was waiting in line for a seat at Bridenstine’s confirmation hearing on November 1 before the Senate Commerce Committee. Like some on Capitol Hill, she left the hearing a bit puzzled. “He did say that he agrees with the statement that 97 percent of scientists agree that climate change is real and is causing devastating problems in the US,” Licker said. “That said, he missed an opportunity to confirm that human activity is the primary cause.”

During his testimony, Bridenstine said that as NASA administrator, he would keep Earth science under NASA, rather than moving it to another agency. That’s something that Trump officials have been pushing for during the transition.

At the November 1 hearing, Bridenstine said that he accepts that humans are a cause of climate change, but would not say that they are the primary cause. In the current political climate in Washington, that may be a start, according to Tony Busalacchi, a former NASA ocean and atmospheric scientist who is now president of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research, a non-profit consortium of 100 colleges and universities that funds training and research in earth science. UCAR also manages the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., with sponsorship from the National Science Foundation.

Busalacchi, who has twice testified before Bridenstine's House Subcommittee on Space, says he’s had two phone calls with Bridenstine since his nomination became public September 1. “He told me he regrets his [2013 House floor] statement in the past, and that he believes CO2 is a greenhouse gas and is contributing to climate change and man is contributing to climate change,” Busalacchi says.
...
“I believe Jim Bridenstine will be one of the greatest NASA administrators ever,” said Richards, who worked with the Oklahoman on space issues before Congress. “I’ve seen his passion and capability to make a difference, his love of space, his patriotism for the country, his technical command of concepts.” Richards also notes that Bridenstine has two qualities that nearly all previous NASA administrators have lacked: youth and political experience. Bridenstine is only 42 and he understands how to deal with members of Congress who hold NASA's pursestrings.

One NASA historian agrees. “The political skill is number one,” says Harry Lambright, professor of political science and public administration at Syracuse University, “in dealing with Congress and the president and all the political actors.”

Shockingly, one of the few not-awful picks. Perhaps it's to balance out the fact that he still hasn't picked a Science Advisor, a position that has been in place since World War II. Oh, but he has a faith council, sort of carrying forward efforts started by GWB, continued and expanded (positively and inclusively) by Obama, but now narrowed to a handful of evangelical Christians (list of who backed him as a candidate - I don't care enough to dig up who's still officially behind him), who still backed him as the President who said there were "good people" on both sides at the Charlottesville neo-Nazi rally.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:29 AM on November 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

I have no earthly idea why every time Trump says "no collusion" reporters don't fire back with "I noticed you're not denying obstruction of justice."

They might fire back, but nothing gets printed or aired without Jeff Zucker and Les Moonvees' implied say-so. Trump is great for the news business. The grosser, more incompetent, more fascist the better.
posted by petebest at 9:30 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Who here hates Glenn? Raise your hand if you hate Glenn.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 9:35 AM on November 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Is there any evidence North Korea has assassinated anyone other than their own defectors and citizens in the last 20 years?

Between the long series of kidnappings, production and and distribution of methamphetamines, the arms trafficking, and moneymaking business in illegal and endangered wildlife products, maybe they deserve to go back on the list (or not!).
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:36 AM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

They might fire back, but nothing gets printed or aired without Jeff Zucker and Les Moonvees' implied say-so. Trump is great for the news business. The grosser, more incompetent, more fascist the better.

There are literally hundreds of news media outlets not owned by Moonves and Zucker.

Pushing back against him is also great for the news business, by stirring and perpetuating controversy. Occam's Razor: reporters are still unsure how to handle an unhinged chaos-magnet President who revels in openly questioning their integrity. They are clearly overwhelmed by the need to defend their integrity while covering the incessant flood of bullshit and crises from Trump and his administration.

Also, let's see how fast Moonves and Zucker do their about face if an impeachment trial begins. That would surely net them fabulous ratings and readers.
posted by zarq at 9:38 AM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

@NewDay: Trump voter panelist: "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

People will go to ridiculous lengths not to admit or accept that they've been suckered. Did Nixon's spiral downwards inspire this degree of dead-ender death cultism?
posted by EatTheWeek at 9:42 AM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

While announcing the decision, the US president said it "should of happened a long time ago".

Snort. The BBC didn't have to quote him, but I love that they did.
posted by elsietheeel at 9:44 AM on November 20, 2017 [30 favorites]

Did Nixon's spiral downwards inspire this degree of dead-ender death cultism?

I was not alive at the time, but my recollection from other people's comments in past threads is yes, it did. It took a couple years post-Watergate until resignation, and even then a not insubstantial percentage (37%?) did not want him to step down.
posted by Existential Dread at 9:46 AM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Between the long series of kidnappings, production and and distribution of methamphetamines, the arms trafficking, and moneymaking business in illegal and endangered wildlife products, maybe they deserve to go back on the list

If that's the deciding list I think kinda we do too. :/
posted by phearlez at 9:48 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

While announcing the decision, the US president said it "should of happened a long time ago".

SHOULD HAVE

It's "SHOULD HAVE." Not "SHOULD OF."

I dunno if I'm supposed to be angry with the President or the BBC or both.
posted by notyou at 9:50 AM on November 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

Snort. The BBC didn't have to quote him, but I love that they did.

I only wish that they had included a (sic).
posted by jedicus at 9:52 AM on November 20, 2017 [32 favorites]

Did he type "should of?" If he said "should've" and the BBC typed "should of," then they just have bad ears for American blatherstyles and think he's "dropping his haitches" or whatever is the lowclass speechcrime they do over there. If he typed it, then haaaaaaaaaahaaaaaa!
posted by Don Pepino at 9:59 AM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Stan Collender: GOP Tax Bill Is The End Of All Economic Sanity In Washington

If it's enacted, the GOP tax cut now working its way through Congress will be the start of a decades-long economic policy disaster unlike any other that has occurred in American history.

There's no economic justification whatsoever for a tax cut at this time. U.S. GDP is growing, unemployment is close to 4 percent (below what is commonly considered "full employment"), corporate profits are at record levels and stock markets are soaring. It makes no sense to add any federal government-induced stimulus to all this private sector-caused economic activity, let alone a tax cut as big as this one.

This is actually the ideal time for Washington to be doing the opposite. But by damning the economic torpedoes and moving full-speed ahead, House and Senate Republicans and the Trump White House are setting up the U.S. for the modern-day analog of the inflation-producing guns-and-butter economic policy of the Vietnam era. The GOP tax bill will increase the federal deficit by $2 trillion or more over the next decade (the official estimates of $1.5 trillion hide the real amount with a witches brew of gimmicks and outright lies) that, unless all the rules have changed, is virtually certain to result in inflation and much higher interest rates than would otherwise occur.
[...]
In other words, if the GOP tax bill is enacted, Congress and the president this year will give up almost all ability to deal with the U.S. economy for at least a decade even when, as almost certainly will happen, there's a downturn. No one else will be able to fulfill this role.

That's almost a textbook definition of economic insanity.

@chrislhayes: This is a feature not a bug since it creates the conditions for brutal austerity down the road.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on November 20, 2017 [77 favorites]

Did he type "should of?"

It was a verbal drop in as he read the statement & he actually said "shoulda", twice.
posted by scalefree at 10:05 AM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Re: Trump's grammar and North Korea, it appears the BBC is quoting Trump's oral announcement, viewable at CNN. Trump says neither "should have" or "should of", but rather, "shoulda".
posted by monju_bosatsu at 10:07 AM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Mike Lofgren, BillMoyers.com: Republican Experts/For The GOP, Incompetence is a Feature, Not a Flaw

Embodied by notables like Newt Gingrich:

It has been said that Newt Gingrich is “a dumb person’s idea of a smart person.” Who coined that phrase is a matter of scholarly dispute, but there is broad agreement that the sentiment is applicable. I will go further and say this characteristic of Newt’s is not just a personal foible; it establishes a model for Republican politicians and operatives since his time in Congress.

posted by ZeusHumms at 10:09 AM on November 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump voter panelist: "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

It's sentiments like this expressed by supposed Christians that should really get the Hal Lindsey types in a tizzy about imminent Signs of the Apocalypse and The Coming of the Antichrist, except they're all too busy kneeling to lick the boots of the wealthy, immoral, Christ-denying personality cult leader who very recently rose to overnight prominence to become one of the most powerful people in the world.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:14 AM on November 20, 2017 [21 favorites]

The fact that Trump said "shoulda" and the BBC quoted him as saying "should of" says to me that the Beeb has engaged in a delightfully subtle bit of roasting. *chef fingertips kiss*
posted by elsietheeel at 10:14 AM on November 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

(BTW, my open tab says "Thanks for nothing/Metafilter" and will until we move to the next thread... )
posted by Sophie1 at 10:17 AM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

@chrislhayes: This is a feature not a bug since it creates the conditions for brutal austerity down the road.

Exactly. They're paying off the donors and setting up the conditions to kill Social Security, privatize Medicare, blah blah blah.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:18 AM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

But man, purposely tanking the economy to do that stuff . . . that's a new low.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:19 AM on November 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

Stan Collender: GOP Tax Bill Is The End Of All Economic Sanity In Washington

The $1 trillion a year budget deficit will not be the result of cyclical changes that will be reversed when the economy improves. These will be permanent structural deficit increases.

The tax hikes that will be needed to resolve the structural imbalance between federal spending and revenues will be impossible for political reasons.

That's about it in a nutshell. If the Democrats try to fix it the GOP can just run tax and spend liberal ads until the cows come home no matter how much the base run in 2018.
posted by Talez at 10:20 AM on November 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

MeTa, re: Franken, #metoo, and potus45 spinoff threads
posted by tonycpsu at 10:27 AM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

David Frum, TheAtlantic: Republicans Are Throwing Away Their Shot at Tax Reform

Congressional Republicans well appreciate the unpopularity of what they are doing. That’s why they are short-circuiting the traditional legislative process, bypassing hearings and other opportunities for public comment. The more the public knows, the more jeopardized their plan becomes. Since the Great Recession, the GOP has grown both more extreme in its goals and more radical in its methods. Apocalyptically pessimistic in its view of America’s future, it seems determined to seize for its donors and core constituencies as much as it can, as fast as it can, as ruthlessly as it can. It will then take advantage of the U.S. political system’s notorious antimajoritarian bias in favor of the status quo to defend the grab over the coming years and decades. Repeal and replace failed. The new slogan is: Rush, grab, entrench, and defend.
...
An opportunity to achieve a sensible improvement by broad consensus is being flung away in favor of accumulating special favors for “special” people. If it succeeds, it will not last. And it probably will not succeed. The differences between the House and the Senate are real; settling them will take time.

posted by ZeusHumms at 10:27 AM on November 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

zombieflanders: "Yes, but the districts were drawn by the overwhelmingly (at the time) GOP legislature."

Yes, but the failure to implement them properly at the local level is laid at the feet of the local board of elections.

I am 100% in agreement that voter suppression is a an ugly thing, and is clearly being used as a tool by the Republican party. But not every screw up is a fiendish plan. Sometimes it's just people making mistakes.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:34 AM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Advice from an ex-lobbyist on how to kill the "Graduate student tax"
posted by lalochezia at 10:36 AM on November 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

lalex: "This sounds...smart? And competent? I'm shocked."

Sargent goes on to comment on Twitter:

Key point:

Democrats hope the GOP tax plan resolves the argument among Dems over whether to prioritize college educated or working class whites.

The tax plan gives them a way to target both, because everyone hates it

posted by Chrysostom at 10:37 AM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Has anyone posted this GQ article on the Rand Paul assault? Short version: the neighbor is very meticulous about his yard; Paul is not very sensitive to the neighbor's yard-related sensitivities; both men are kind of jerks.

Remind me to be grateful for my somewhat-odd-but-apparently-harmless next-door neighbors.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 10:40 AM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

[Pro-tip on posting links: if you want to see if it's been posted before, paste it in the MetaFilter site search; remember to strip the link to its bare form, removing any follow tracking parts. To check and see if YouTube videos were posted before, search for the video ID only.]
posted by filthy light thief at 10:43 AM on November 20, 2017 [30 favorites]

For all their blatantly conservative take on what they propose and promote, the Heritage Foundation has a helpful chart with differences between the House and Senate bill, as well as comparisons to the current regulations, and what the Heritage Foundation supports. Posted Nov. 17, 2017, written by Adam Michel.

If you don't want to give them clicks, The Motley Fool has more limited summary of current vs House vs Senate, with more comparisons in narrative form instead of in a table. Posted Nov. 17, 2017, written by Matthew Frankel.

CNBC has a series of tables, comparing current thresholds vs proposed, in separate tables for House and Senate bills. Posted Nov. 17, 2017, written by Darla Mercado.

Bloomberg has a good comparison table, but only comparing House and Senate, describing what each would do to the current regulations, instead of having a 3rd column for current regs. Published: November 9, 2017. Updated: November 20, 2017.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:52 AM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Democrats hope the GOP tax plan resolves the argument among Dems over whether to prioritize college educated or working class whites.

It is to laugh

And cry

And drink, I guess
posted by schadenfrau at 10:57 AM on November 20, 2017 [24 favorites]

To quote myself from facebook where someone posted that GQ link:

"Also at issue, according to Goodwin, is Paul's tendency to mow outward at the edge of his property, spraying his clippings into Boucher's yard. Boucher, he said, has asked Paul to instead mow inward when near the boundary line"

I didn't think there was a libertarian way to mow a lawn but I stand corrected.

Externalities? Repercussions for others? Don't care even if a trivial effort on my part would solve the problem.
posted by phearlez at 10:59 AM on November 20, 2017 [44 favorites]

Update on Karen Fonseca, the Texas woman with the 'Fuck Trump' truck decal who was arrested after her story went viral: Woman with ‘Fuck Trump’ truck decal adds sheriff’s name after being arrested

Fonseca posted an updated picture of her truck to her Facebook page Sunday night. The message now reads in full: YEAH… FUCK TRUMP AND FUCK YOU FOR VOTING FOR HIM. FUCK TROY NEHLS AND FUCK YOU FOR VOTING FOR HIM.

posted by Atom Eyes at 11:04 AM on November 20, 2017 [71 favorites]

Another great bit from the GQ piece:

Of course, as a libertarian icon, Rand Paul would, one would think, be outraged by any attempt to make a federal case out of a matter that does not appear to warrant the attention of federal prosecutors. But as the man at the bar at the Bowling Green Hyatt said, after seven years in Washington, "Rand's learned how to be a politician."

Of course, it's not just him, that's basically modern libertarianism (especially the American strains) in a nutshell.
posted by zombieflanders at 11:06 AM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Quote:
"Stan Collender: GOP Tax Bill Is The End Of All Economic Sanity In Washington
*snip*
posted by zombieflanders at 10:00 AM on November 20"

I am so confused by this bill, and the press coverage of it. Last week, on NPR Planet Money, they were discussing how the market was down that day on fears that the Tax Bill wouldn't pass, and there was zero mention on how this bill is completely dishonest and potentially disastrous. If this is how NPR is discussing this issue, what the heck is the rest of the US media doing?

I have read many articles on the web, from the Economist to NYTimes and WashPost, all of them calling this bill a flat-out lie. But, on the flip side, I have not heard anyone on TV or the radio call out this bill, and I listen mostly to BBC, CBC and NPR (where you'd think they wouldn't shy away from calling this bill out).

Seriously, what is the media doing? How can something so blatantly false can still be debated at face value?
posted by Vindaloo at 11:09 AM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

If there's one thing NPR has demonstrated, it's that they are completely incapable of dealing with the idea that any politician is dealing in bad faith or is outright lying. They've fallen so far into horse-race centrism that their political coverage is basically useless. CBC and BBC I would expect to be better about these things, as they aren't dependent on political patronage in the US.

I've completely stopped listening to NPR because of this failing, and have moved completely over to podcasts. I'd be interested to understand how many people are doing the same thing.
posted by Existential Dread at 11:17 AM on November 20, 2017 [79 favorites]

You're definitely not alone, Existential Dread. Their election converage last year was the last straw for me. I got tired of yelling at the radio every morning.
posted by rp at 11:21 AM on November 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

Not alone, Existential Dread. I don't necessarily agree with the 'why' part of your comment (I don't disagree either, I just haven't considered it) but I most certainly cannot listen to NPR anymore. Podcasts for life.
posted by lazaruslong at 11:26 AM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

> Is there any evidence North Korea has assassinated anyone other than their own defectors and citizens in the last 20 years?

Yes.

In January 2016, Otto Warmbier, an American citizen, was arrested by the DPRK while touring North Korea. He was sentenced to 15 years hard labor for the alleged crime of attempting to steal a banner. Less than a year and a half after beginning his sentence, he was medevac'ed to the US in a coma with extensive loss of brain tissue. He died less than a week later.

After their son's death, Otto Warmbier's parents appeared on Fox&Friends and called on North Korea to be listed as a state sponsor of terror.
posted by Westringia F. at 11:28 AM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

In 'What will lefty white males think of, next?' news:
Sam Ronan, who ran for DNC Chair as a progressive and has a small left-wing following, announces he is switching parties to Republican. [Twitter link]
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:29 AM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

npr turned to rancid poo sometime in the aughts and somehow it keeps getting worse
(and steve inskeep is the worst of the worst)
posted by entropicamericana at 11:30 AM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

You're definitely not alone, Existential Dread. Their election converage last year was the last straw for me. I got tired of yelling at the radio every morning.

This was precisely the time and reason I stopped listening to NPR forever also.
posted by demonic winged headgear at 11:30 AM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

DC Rumor Mill says House Rs are planning to get rid of the debt ceiling, or at least make it increase automatically with each new spending bill.

This is the same party that shut down the government over the debt ceiling when Obama was in power.

Getting rid of the debt ceiling would be good policy but the hypocrisy is astounding. Plus I'm sure they'd want to put it back when a Democrat is in power.
posted by Justinian at 11:36 AM on November 20, 2017 [46 favorites]

I still really enjoy a bunch of NPR-related shows and podcasts (It's Been a Minute; Wait Wait Don't Tell Me; Pop Culture Happy Hour), but the big anchor shows like Morning Edition and All Things Considered are sadly neutered when it comes to national political news. When they get into the weeds on specific stories they can still be pretty good, but they're so afraid of being called out on the national stage for political bias that they've just hobbled themselves.

It's really sad.
posted by suelac at 11:37 AM on November 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

i just started listening to sports talk radio instead. loo loo laah sports sports sports what news?
posted by localhuman at 11:38 AM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Getting rid of the debt ceiling would be good policy but the hypocrisy is astounding.

In this environment, just getting some good policy is a huge win.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:39 AM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Vindaloo: Last week, on NPR Planet Money, they were discussing how the market was down that day on fears that the Tax Bill wouldn't pass, and there was zero mention on how this bill is completely dishonest and potentially disastrous. If this is how NPR is discussing this issue, what the heck is the rest of the US media doing?

Planet Money is only one point of coverage on NPR. Here's a story from today that calls out the plan for increasing debt, benefits for individuals and families having a sunset unlike the cuts for corporations (though it's repeating GOP talking points without direct rebuttals); the impact of taxing school endowments was covered on Nov. 19; impacts to grad students under the House bill was a focus piece on Nov. 14; and in coverage of the House passing their bill, noted that the Senate bill includes a provision to zero out the individual mandate penalty, one of the pillars of the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. And Why You Shouldn't Count On The Promised $4,000 'Raise' From GOP Tax Plan, rebutting the promise by Sarah Huckabee Sanders and others that the tax plan is a magical thing for all.

In short, not what I'd consider perfect coverage of the issue, but definitely not reiterating GOP talking points alone. And personally, it works to fill me in on national and international news in my commute pattern, so I'm still tuning in, even though I do a fair bit of shouting at the radio. But to be fair to NPR, not all of it's at the NPR personnel, much is also aimed at the GOP bullshitters, with some "FUCK YEAH!" when NPR does rebut talking points spouted by a conservative guest.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:59 AM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

This GQ article on Rand Paul’s NeighborFight is a thing of beauty- down to the length of grass each mows their lawn to! It is truly the only bright spot in politics now.
posted by corb at 12:03 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

If there's one thing NPR has demonstrated, it's that they are completely incapable of dealing with the idea that any politician is dealing in bad faith or is outright lying. They've fallen so far into horse-race centrism that their political coverage is basically useless. CBC and BBC I would expect to be better about these things, as they aren't dependent on political patronage in the US.

I used to have CBC radio on all.the.time. I slept with the radio on. Those days are gone because the hourly news breaks and evening newscast are often really slipshod about American politics.
posted by maudlin at 12:05 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Hey Secretary Tillerson is doing the first bit of the press briefing today. I guess they woke him up from his nap.
posted by Justinian at 12:07 PM on November 20, 2017

You're definitely not alone, Existential Dread. Their election coverage last year was the last straw for me. I got tired of yelling at the radio every morning.

Count me in, I stopped sometime last October and never looked back.

i just started listening to sports talk radio instead. loo loo laah sports sports sports what news?

Again, same here, and my year with Mike and Mike was overall pretty good. Too bad they're gone now too.
posted by CheeseLouise at 12:15 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

npr news is dead to me. also, charlie rose fellating friedman every six weeks.
posted by j_curiouser at 12:19 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump voter panelist: "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. Matthew 10:33.

If this follows true to pattern this guy will turn out to be a political operative and not the 'man on the street' he is presented to be.

In which case Jesus's denunciation would probably be overkill.
posted by srboisvert at 12:20 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

You're definitely not alone, Existential Dread. Their election coverage last year was the last straw for me. I got tired of yelling at the radio every morning.

Count me in, I stopped sometime last October and never looked back.

Ditto. Crooked Media is my podcast destination of choice. I'll never tire of hearing them constantly point out the utter moral cravenness of Paul Ryan.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:21 PM on November 20, 2017 [22 favorites]

Sam Ronan, who ran for DNC Chair as a progressive and has a small left-wing following, announces he is switching parties to Republican.

This is blissfully stupid on so many levels. Ronan's argument is, essentially, "let's have progressives infiltrate and change BOTH parties" without realizing that you really can't sneak into a party by announcing your strategy ahead of time or that changing a party requires a critical mass of people large enough to be a significant minority in the party you're supposedly infiltrating. He's doing this in the Ohio 1st, which has gone for Steve Chabot - a bog-standard shitty Republican spear-carrier, noteworthy in no real way - in every election in the past 24 years other than the 2008 Obama wave election, which resulted in a Democrat holding the seat for two years, and since then the district has calcified and Chabot's been winning by much larger margins than he ever has before.

It's just dumb and self-flattering.
posted by mightygodking at 12:23 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

You're definitely not alone, Existential Dread. Their election coverage last year was the last straw for me. I got tired of yelling at the radio every morning.

Right after that first really ugly and insulting "press conference" Trump gave, I was driving my girlfriend home from work and I heard Mara Liasson say parts of it were "charming." I snapped & shouted at my stereo loudly enough to really worry my girlfriend, and therefore myself, because that's really unlike me. I realized this was something that had built up over a long time--specifically over NPR. I stopped listening for a long time & I'm still not really listening much.

Some individual programs are good. Marketplace is fairly reasonable, at least; you can hear Kai Ryssdal's side-eye in his voice, but not a lot of direct call-outs. On Twitter, he's a little more openly salty about this regime.

I'll give NPR credit on how it's managing the impact of the #metoo exposures of its own people. But as for national politics NPR is much like the NYT: they completely, inexcusably lost the plot of the election last year and despite all the horrors that have followed they don't show any signs of having engaged in an ounce of introspection on the whole thing.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:24 PM on November 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

At her press conference, Sarah Sanders is requiring journalists to name some things they're thankful for before she responds to them. [real]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:25 PM on November 20, 2017 [26 favorites]

It's just dumb and self-flattering.

The Chapo! It’s coming from inside the Trap House!
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:26 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

At her press conference, Sarah Sanders is requiring journalists to name some things they're thankful for before she responds to them. [real]

Please tell me one of them has said "the rule of law" or "Robert Mueller."
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:26 PM on November 20, 2017 [93 favorites]

Sanders is missing her dream job as the elementary school teacher / church lady of every child's nightmares.
posted by maudlin at 12:26 PM on November 20, 2017 [63 favorites]

> States of disgrace: strange American laws – in pictures

In Minnesota a person may not cross state lines with a bird atop his head.

From my cold, dead scalp!
posted by homunculus at 12:27 PM on November 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

Cecilia Vega of ABC said she's thankful for the First Amendment, which judging by the audible response of other journalists was regarded as an ice burn
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:30 PM on November 20, 2017 [132 favorites]

Sanders is on a real fuckin' weird Dolores Umbridge headtrip.
posted by palomar at 12:31 PM on November 20, 2017 [98 favorites]

At her press conference, Sarah Sanders is requiring journalists to name some things they're thankful for before she responds to them. [real]

Wait, what? Piece of evidence #2,630 that none of these people even remotely know how this whole thing works.
posted by Melismata at 12:33 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

If anyone else hates Twitter threads but wants that detailed strategy for fighting the Grad Student Tax that would cripple higher ed, I made it into a PDF that I'd be happy to send anyone. MeMail me.

TL/DR: DON'T do street protests, that will backfire. Call these senators if you are a resident of or student in their states. (Also, write letters to editor) Why? They're on the Senate Finance Committee and will decide which bits get cut or added in reconciliation.

Utah - Sen. Hatch - [phone]
Iowa - Sen. Grassley - [phone]
Idaho - Sen. Crapo - [phone]
Kansas - Sen. Roberts - [phone]
Wyoming - Sen. Enzi - [phone]
Texas - Sen. Cornyn - [phone]
South Dakota - Sen. Thune - [phone]
North Carolina - Sen. Burr - [phone]
Georgia - Sen. Isakson - [phone]
Ohio - Sen. Portman - [phone]
Pennsylvania - Sen. Toomey - [phone]
Nevada - Sen. Heller - [phone]
South Carolina - Sen. Scott - [phone]
Lousiana - Sen. Cassidy - [phone]
posted by msalt at 12:35 PM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Ugh god. John Gizzi is thankful for pestering his wife for marriage.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:38 PM on November 20, 2017

Please tell me one of them has said "the rule of law" or "Robert Mueller."

"New York State's Attorney General."
"US Intelligence Agencies."
"The Espionage Act of 1917"
"The 25th Amendment."
"The RICO Act"

fake, but still hopeful
posted by leotrotsky at 12:39 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

The Chapo! It’s coming from inside the Trap House!

lol c'mon, whatever you think of CTH, they very clearly loathe Republicans and conservatism in general, and as far as I can recall, they haven't advocated for socialists to take over the Republican Party. That said, Ronan's an opportunistic prick.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 12:40 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

[real], leontrotsky? I hope hope?
posted by Melismata at 12:41 PM on November 20, 2017

Josh Rogin: "I'm thankful that awkward briefing is over."
posted by slipthought at 12:41 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Patrick Caldwell, MotherJones: This Is Just How Badly Scott Walker Has Decimated Public Schools in Wisconsin - "A new study highlights the dire teacher shortage created by Walker’s anti-union law."
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:42 PM on November 20, 2017 [27 favorites]

Call these senators if you are a resident of or student in their states.

has anyone pointed out to these idiot senators that universities are generally THE BIGGEST OR SECOND-BIGGEST EMPLOYERS IN THEIR DANG STATE, or at least top-five
the sole exception appears to be louisiana, so i guess cassidy gets a pass, but COME ON
posted by halation at 12:42 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Sanders claims that when the President said he should have left the basketball players in Chinese prison, he was issuing a "rhetorical response", so that's a new item for the glossary alongside "alternative fact" and "truthful hyperbole"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:42 PM on November 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Caitlin Johnstone asked her readers what they thought were the most underreported stories about the awful things the Trump administration has been doing.
posted by adamvasco at 12:42 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

has anyone pointed out to these idiot senators that universities are generally THE BIGGEST OR SECOND-BIGGEST EMPLOYERS IN THEIR DANG STATE, or at least top-five

...and the spin-offs from science and engineering are often the #1 source of start-ups in the state.

There's layers of stupid here, but channeling money from future entrepreneurs and small businesses to heirs who. contribute. nothing. is just jaw-dropping.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:51 PM on November 20, 2017 [42 favorites]

Caitlin Johnstone asked her readers what they thought were the most underreported stories about the awful things the Trump administration has been doing.

Kind of odd not to include the second half of the title: "Going Under-Reported Amid Russia Hysteria." Johnstone's main purpose is to attack neoliberalism and "Russia Hysteria," with criticism of Trump and his administration as a secondary or tertiary motive. Case in point, the last paragraph:

The US president is not as powerful as the mainstream narrative would have us believe, but the executive branch is a part of the overall power structure, and should be analyzed accordingly. We should all be able to take as realistic a look at Trump as we did Obama, or as we would have with Hillary Clinton had she won. There is certainly plenty to criticize.

Her argument is that Trump might be worth criticizing as much as Obama and Clinton were because he's actually a pawn of the people who happen to be Putin's worst enemies. Also she's a Pizzagate promoter.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:55 PM on November 20, 2017 [41 favorites]

Bloomberg: The Department of Justice is responding to AT&T's refusal to consider selling CNN (perhaps to that nice Rupert Murdoch fellow who keeps offering to purchase it) by blocking their planned merger with Time Warner.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:57 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Mod note: Comment removed; if you're wanting to share something that's several pages long, please link and if needed excerpt instead of tossing the whole thing into the thread.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:00 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Caitlin Johnstone is a total troll. She starts her linked article stating "Trump’s demagoguery, rudeness and ridiculous North Korean brinkmanship all play well on TV — his continuation and expansion of the evils of his corporatist predecessors, not so much" Then she lists "10 Trump Administration Atrocities" of which 7-8 are absolute reversals of Obama/Clinton policies. NOT expansion, reversal. She a liar who has a proud future with the post-Trump FoxNews.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:01 PM on November 20, 2017 [24 favorites]

Joe Mayes, Bloomberg: Ex-Fox News Employee Says She Was Blocked From Investigating Trump-Russia Ties

“Fox didn’t let me go to Moscow to dig into Trump’s Russian connections, even when I offered to pay my own way.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:03 PM on November 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

Please tell me one of them has said "the rule of law" or "Robert Mueller."

Cecilia Vega said the First Amendment.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:03 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

> Cecilia Vega said the First Amendment.

And I think that was April Ryan in the background saying "what part of it, though?" which is a nice touch.
posted by tonycpsu at 1:05 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

has anyone pointed out to these idiot senators that universities are generally THE BIGGEST OR SECOND-BIGGEST EMPLOYERS IN THEIR DANG STATE...

You mean like healthcare/ pharma are huge industries everywhere so let's be sure to destroy health insurance/ Medicare/Medicaid for 10s of millions of people so they can't afford doctors and diagnostics and therapies and surgeries and prescription meds, and fewer people are using those services, thus decimating healthcare jobs (as well as destroying the would-be patients' lives)?
posted by NorthernLite at 1:06 PM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Well, the the Time Warner/AT&T Justice Dep't suit is big news for CNN...
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:07 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

the CNN folks on my Twitter are saying to stand by for news.

Calm down, it's going to be about the DOJ suing to block the ATT-Time Warner merger. Which may or may not be about Trump hating CNN, but if it is, the result will be Trump's anger accidently causing a smart policy decision.

No Bra'er Trump, please don't punish us by actually enforcing antitrust laws! Whatever will we do! (Psst...Obama NEVER enforced antitrust laws, you could BEAT HIM SO HARD ON ANTITRUST!)
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:08 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

All signs point to the DOJ withdrawing their objection if CNN is sold to the parent company of Fox News, which seems like the opposite of enforcing anti-trust law; it seems like creating an anti-trust violation of a horizontal merger beyond anything present in the proposed vertical merger. All in order to stifle politically uncomfortable journalism.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:11 PM on November 20, 2017 [25 favorites]

So my House Rep is a tea party Republican loser, totally in the Trump tank, and he's been loudly promoting the Tax bill. But his district is almost entirely universities, including two cities completely reliant on the colleges. So a few days later he posted that obviously there needed to be changes to the House version to protect student loans and grad students. So he apparently got some serious push-back on this because he never admits he might be wrong.
posted by threeturtles at 1:13 PM on November 20, 2017 [21 favorites]

@NewDay: Trump voter panelist: "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

People will go to ridiculous lengths not to admit or accept that they've been suckered. Did Nixon's spiral downwards inspire this degree of dead-ender death cultism?

ok but what did Jesus ever do for christians tho
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:13 PM on November 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

If I were a reporter, it would be so tempting to open a question with a "thanks" to president Trump, and then just lay on the thickest possible sarcasm. "President Trump is the sun and the moon and the stars, he is the reason I get up in the morning, he once saved my family from an avalanche with a well-placed golf stroke," (turning around, going from speaking to full-on shouting) "Thank you, Mr President, none of us are worthy of breathing the air you breathe." Trump himself would absolutely refuse to believe he was being made fun of. Even if one added "Please Mr President don't let my children spend five years in Chinese prison" to the end of it.

But then again, just saying that would probably accelerate the dissolution of our republic, because what is real or fake any more? So... meh.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:13 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

the CNN folks on my Twitter are saying to stand by for news.

Calm down, it's going to be about the DOJ suing to block the ATT-Time Warner merger.

Or not.

@justinjm1 (national editor, Daily Beast)
standby for Trump-Russia news
posted by chris24 at 1:13 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

Massachusetts Set To Approve Law Protecting Access To Birth Control (Samantha Raphelson for NPR, November 20, 2017)

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker was expected to sign legislation on Monday that would cement in state law the Obama-era mandate for free birth control regardless of changes in federal policy or future repeal of the Affordable Care Act.

The bill quickly sailed through the state legislature earlier this month, after President Trump signed an executive order in October allowing any company or nonprofit organization to opt out of providing coverage due to a religious or moral objection.

The Massachusetts law will go into effect immediately after it is signed, though insurance companies have six months to implement the changes, Carey Goldberg, editor of WBUR's CommonHealth blog, tells Here & Now's Robin Young.

Yes, more states routing around the obstruction of the Trump administration, and making progress at the state level.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:16 PM on November 20, 2017 [46 favorites]

> @justinjm1 (national editor, Daily Beast): standby for Trump-Russia news

How can you do this to me? I was not planning on obsessively refreshing my tabs for the next hour, but now ...
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:17 PM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

All the signs point to the DOJ withdrawing their objection if CNN is sold to the parent company of Fox News, which seems like the opposite of enforcing anti-trust law; it seems like creating an anti-trust violation of a horizontal merger beyond anything present in the proposed vertical merger. All in order to stifle politically uncomfortable journalism.

Maybe? The DOJ gave ATT the choice of selling either CNN or DirectTV, that complicates the "Trump is attacking CNN" angle pretty significantly I think.

And meanwhile the pro-Trump Sinclair/Tribune merger will sail right through?

This is the much bigger issue from a competition and political standpoint. Love to see a DOJ suit here too, and since it won't happen maybe the CNN angle is real after all. This is the problem with the President spouting off about specific companies, we can't know the DOJ's motives are transparent or based on actually enforcing the law, because Trump is treating the DOJ like his personal law firm.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:18 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

standby for Trump-Russia news

Do I hear wedding bells?
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:18 PM on November 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

When the President calls a media organization an “enemy of the state” for committing journalism, he loses the assumption of moral benevolence when attempting to block their merger; especially if he hints that everything could be fixed if his political enemy was sold to his political friend.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:19 PM on November 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

The justinjm1 tweet seems to have been ticktocking this. Does anyone have thoughts on the significance?
posted by prefpara at 1:19 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

chris24: standby for Trump-Russia news

Roman Beniaminov, a Low-Profile Real Estate Exec Turned Pop Star Manager, Knew About Russia’s ‘Dirt’ on Hillary -- Investigators now may have another person to talk to about that infamous Trump Tower meeting (Betsy Woodruff for The Daily Beast, Nov. 20, 2017)

Days before the infamous Trump Tower meeting in June 2016, a low-profile real estate figure with ties to powerful Russians alerted a meeting participant that the topic of “dirt” on Hillary Clinton could come up, The Daily Beast has learned.

That figure, Roman Beniaminov, didn’t attend the meeting himself. But he had close ties to several figures in and around it, including Emin Agalarov, the Azeri-Russian pop star who helped set up that Trump Tower confab and whose father is an ally of Vladimir Putin.
...
In all of the discussion about the infamous Trump Tower meeting, Beniaminov’s name has rarely, if ever, come up. So his alleged role in informing Kaveladze about the plans suggests he may be yet another important player who could have relevant information for the various, ongoing investigations.

Beniaminov could not be reached for comment.

posted by filthy light thief at 1:19 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Caitlin Johnstone asked her readers what they thought were the most underreported stories about the awful things the Trump administration has been doing.

Caitlin Johnstone wants to be Louise Mensch when she grows up.
posted by octobersurprise at 1:19 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Maybe the sale of DirecTV was selected as an unfeasible alternate option in order to provide plausible deniability. [secures tinfoil hat]
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:20 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I bet it's just the CNN thing despite justinjm1's tweet. Don't hold your breath guys.
posted by Justinian at 1:20 PM on November 20, 2017

What flavor is the frosting, Justinian?
posted by notyou at 1:22 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

The justinjm1 tweet seems to have been ticktocking this. Does anyone have thoughts on the significance?

Another person who might have information on potential for Team Trump to be colluding with Russia to utilize hacked emails in Trump's campaign against Clinton. Not a big boom a this time, IMO, but it may be another piece to further solidify the ever-growing story of Trump's connections with Russia.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:23 PM on November 20, 2017

A new study highlights the dire teacher shortage created by Walker’s anti-union law.

As much as I don't disagree with the premise, that non-zero-based graph in the middle is super irritating how they blew up the feature they wanted to show both horizontally and vertically so it went from extreme high to extreme low. It's a ~20% change, that shouldn't need a scare graph.
posted by ctmf at 1:25 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

dear universe, i am planning to get neck-deep in a vat of spinach artichoke dip on wednesday evening, please provide me with delicious headlines as an amuse-bouche, thanks in advance
posted by palomar at 1:25 PM on November 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

I don't need another indictment before Thanksgiving as much as I need another "Indictments Coming Monday" headline right before Thanksgiving. Because I'd really like the thought of the entire regime spending their holiday sweating over their dinners.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:26 PM on November 20, 2017 [71 favorites]

> Beniaminov could not be reached for comment.

Guesses as to why? Taking a spa day in Moscow? Busy taking a dirt nap? Enjoying a Polonium breakfast?
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:26 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

The justinjm1 tweet seems to have been ticktocking this. Does anyone have thoughts on the significance?

Kaveladze's lawyer went on the record saying one of the purposes of the meeting was trading "dirt" on Clinton. It helps establish the quid pro quo and collusive nature of the Don Jr. "adoption" meeting. And gives Mueller more people to investigate and talk to.
posted by chris24 at 1:27 PM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

as much as I need another "Indictments Coming Monday" headline right before Thanksgiving. Because I'd really like the thought of the entire regime spending their holiday sweating over their dinners.

Well, except for the fact that it would be tortuous for us Mefites.
posted by Melismata at 1:28 PM on November 20, 2017

yaaaaawn to everything everywhere; I'm really gonna need a bigger fix another indictment before Thanksgiving

Would also settle for footage of Jared walking face first into a glass door
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:28 PM on November 20, 2017 [53 favorites]

Would also settle for footage of Jared walking face first into a glass door

While drinking a latte that explodes comically all over his face and shirt
posted by Existential Dread at 1:31 PM on November 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

not to mention watching our Trump-supporter relatives sweat over their Thanksgiving dinners, which I would definitely not extremely enjoy

Whoa, I have a sister?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:33 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

cortex: "[Comment removed; if you're wanting to share something that's several pages long, please link and if needed excerpt instead of tossing the whole thing into the thread.]"

In the name of the most holy and individual Trinity: Be it known to all, and every one whom it may concern, or to whom in any manner it may belong, That for many Years past, Discords and Civil Divisions being stir’d up in the Roman Empire, which increas’d to such a degree, that not only all Germany, but also the neighbouring Kingdoms, and France particularly, have been involv’d in the Disorders of a long and cruel War [1/573]
posted by Chrysostom at 1:34 PM on November 20, 2017 [61 favorites]

would you folks settle for a collection of merlin mann's "my father" tweets
posted by entropicamericana at 1:35 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

chris24:"
Kaveladze's lawyer went on the record saying one of the purposes of the meeting was trading "dirt" on Clinton. It helps establish the quid pro quo and collusive nature of the Don Jr. "adoption" meeting. And gives Mueller more people to investigate and talk to."

That's how these things work. The big stories and events are rare, most of it is painstaking adding of small links to the chain, small bricks in the wall.

Mueller, by all outside testimony, is very careful, and very good at this. He is not going to leave any possible plausible out to disbelieve him.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:39 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Fonseca posted an updated picture of her truck to her Facebook page Sunday night. The message now reads in full: YEAH… FUCK TRUMP AND FUCK YOU FOR VOTING FOR HIM. FUCK TROY NEHLS AND FUCK YOU FOR VOTING FOR HIM.

Not all heroes wear capes.
posted by emjaybee at 1:40 PM on November 20, 2017 [49 favorites]

@NewDay: Trump voter panelist: "If Jesus Christ gets down off the cross and told me Trump is with Russia, I would tell him, 'Hold on a second. I need to check with the President if it's true.'"

For Trump is your God now, Trump voter panelist.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:41 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

I don't need another indictment before Thanksgiving as much as I need another "Indictments Coming Monday" headline right before Thanksgiving.

If the writers were just, a bunch of WH bozos would get arrested/indicted while Trump is pardoning a turkey.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 1:45 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

I hope that Turkey is sufficiently lavish in his or her praise of Donald Trump or he's gonna get mad and chop its head off post-pardon.
posted by Justinian at 1:46 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Gorka has a worthy challenger for the title of Dragon Of Budapest.

Matthew Mosk, ABC: Carter Page held high-level meetings with Hungarian officials in Budapest
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:52 PM on November 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Page was in Budapest?!? Russian intelligence's launching pad for spies to Europe?
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:01 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

You and I remember Budapest very differently.
posted by orrnyereg at 2:03 PM on November 20, 2017 [39 favorites]

Waiting for Trump/Russia news is like playing Tetris on a very slow computer.
And I loth Tetris. Especially the Russian music it plays.
Give us a little news mister special prosecutor, please.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 2:04 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

I just hope this ends with Gorka and Page in a desperate and grappling duel while their raft drifts inexorably toward a waterfall somewhere in the Carpathian peaks
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:05 PM on November 20, 2017 [55 favorites]

At her press conference, Sarah Sanders is requiring journalists to name some things they're thankful for before she responds to them.

Preznit giv me turkee.
posted by octobersurprise at 2:06 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

You and I remember Budapest

How you tore your dress? What a mess.
posted by ctmf at 2:08 PM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

> Preznit giv me turkee.

Is it Atrios/Eschaton flashbacks I'm having? Nostalgia for the competence of the government during Bush II is a ... weird emotion.
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:09 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

I know a MetaTalk is discussing this kinda thing as we speak, but Charlie Rose is the latest on the harassment list (Washington Post, by Irin Carmon and Amy Brittain). I don't think it warrants a full FPP, but it seems important.
posted by lauranesson at 2:09 PM on November 20, 2017

I don't need another indictment before Thanksgiving as much as I need another "Indictments Coming Monday" headline right before Thanksgiving. Because I'd really like the thought of the entire regime spending their holiday sweating over their dinners.

From your fingers to G-d's monitor. Amen!
posted by mikelieman at 2:11 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

You and I remember Budapest very differently.

Hah!
posted by phearlez at 2:11 PM on November 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

Sam Ronan, who ran for DNC Chair as a progressive and has a small left-wing following, announces he is switching parties to Republican.

This is stupid and discrediting. However, I do think that legitimately centrist Republicans (and Independents willing to re-register) should primary all Trumpist Republicans, for two reasons:

1) get whatever platform you can to push back against the cultish propaganda and, e.g., criticize Roy Moore;

2) you might get lucky and be the last person standing against someone in a bad scandal. In bright red states, that's a better path to flipping a seat than a Democrat who would probably lose to any replacement candidate.

(Ahem, CORB)
posted by msalt at 2:19 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

On the one hand, I hate Jonathan Chait.

On the other hand, what is that kids on Tumblr say these days? If it makes you chuckle out loud, you have to reblog it?

A source close to the administration tells the [Washington] Post that Mueller is running “a classic Gambino-style roll-up” that “will reach everyone in this administration.” When you read histories of the more successful presidential administrations in American history, a phrase you don’t usually come across is “Gambino-style roll-up.”

Chait on the Washington Post article ‘A long winter’: White House aides divided over scope, risks of Russia probe by Ashley Parker and Carol Loennig.
posted by joyceanmachine at 2:20 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

RedOrGreen: "> Preznit giv me turkee.

Is it Atrios/Eschaton flashbacks I'm having? Nostalgia for the competence of the government during Bush II is a ... weird emotion."

That was so long ago and yet the press hasn't gotten any better since then, still more interested in preserving access than printing the truth.
posted by octothorpe at 2:20 PM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

I feel like Carter Page's Budapest trip was like beat for beat the same as the Russian embassy scenes in Burn After Reading.
posted by jason_steakums at 2:24 PM on November 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

I know a MetaTalk is discussing this kinda thing as we speak, but Charlie Rose is the latest on the harassment list (Washington Post, by Irin Carmon and Amy Brittain).

Wow. I can't say I've been that surprised by the charges that have come up so far, but that one surprises me.
posted by bongo_x at 2:28 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Republican War on College
Republican tax and budget policies could impoverish public colleges, punish low-income graduate students, and raise the effective price of student debt—all to make it cheaper for large businesses to invest in nonhuman technology.

A post-human workforce is not an inevitability. But in the future that the GOP is constructing, in which machines are cheap and higher education is expensive, companies will see it as an awfully tempting option.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:32 PM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

I wonder how these men of God square their position on Moore with Mark 8:36.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Or with the temptation in the Wilderness. I don't remember Jesus being all like "Sure, Satan is a bad guy and it's not a great thing if he offers me power but think of the Supreme Court I could assemble and the taxes I could cut?" None of this makes any sense.
posted by Justinian at 2:33 PM on November 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

This, in light of things like Sarah Huckabee-Sanders' weird threat via parable, kills me. How is "I'm taking my prosperity and leaving" not screamed as a talking point as super-unpatriotic at every turn?

For the same reason that when confronted with not having paid his fair share of income tax in a presidential debate, Donald Trump simply said, "That makes me smart." And won the presidency shortly thereafter.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 2:35 PM on November 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

I wonder how these men of God square their position on Moore with Mark 8:36.

My assumption is that they're not actual men of God, just grifters that figured out religion is a good way to scam the rubes.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:39 PM on November 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

but that one surprises me

CBS This Morning could be retitled CBS Workplace Flirting or CBS Innuendo Party (+ Some News).
posted by elsietheeel at 2:46 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Advice from an ex-lobbyist on how to kill the "Graduate student tax"

It hurt me more than I was expecting to read that one of his tips was to focus on the representatives of certain states "that GOP members of the Senate Finance committee represent," because he treats it as a given that some version of this monstrosity will pass, and you need to focus on removing this line-item from reconciliation.
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 2:48 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can we pull Robin MacNeil and Jim Lehrer out of retirement?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 2:52 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

According to Yashar Ali, who's been great on breaking and covering these sexual harassment stories, it's about to get a lot worse for Charlie Rose since there's a second outlet that's about to release a similar story on him, presumably with different/additional accusers/accusations.
posted by chris24 at 2:52 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Yeah, Last Week Tonight put some CBS This Morning clips together a few months ago. (YouTube link)
posted by lauranesson at 2:54 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Ron Johnson cave watch: Ron Johnson Is 'Encouraged' on Taxes But Slams 'Awful Process'
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:54 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

ABC: Carter Page held high-level meetings with Hungarian officials in Budapest

The Budapest "bridge" is the bridge of Trump's collusion with Russia. (Oohhh. I wondered what bridge I was too uncultured to recognize). Noted here previously, but the real interesting tag is a one Mr J.D. Gordon, visiting "six times".

JD is chief aide to a Racist Elf who, you may not recall, has no idea whatever about a "Russia" or any "discussions". Particularly if they may be retroactively commanded to be forgotten by His Wigness, though they not be at this time.

Going down, Jefferson?
posted by petebest at 2:55 PM on November 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

Don't fall for Johnson's bullshit. Dude will vote how his donors tell him to vote.
posted by Justinian at 3:00 PM on November 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

So what motivates pro-lifers: the belief that women should be forced to face consequences for having sex, or the belief that abortion is exactly like child murder? Let's review.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:09 PM on November 19 [25 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

I've been known to taunt "prolifers" with the epithet "slut-haters" and asking why they don't require women to wear vaginal discharge filters 24/7 so the precious gifts of life can be caught and given a proper Christian naming and burial. To tell you the truth, I believe that the vast majority of the anti-abortion crew are slut-haters in some form, although most of them aren't doing the slut-hating consciously. It's more built into the deep background of their thinking. It evidences itself both in those who are willing to grant exceptions for rape and health/life of the woman and in those who somehow think that God will protect the virtuous. If you dig hard enough, it always comes down to blame of the pregnant woman and to her "responsibility." The idea that every cell of every human being's body is potential life creates such cognitive dissonance that they can only dismiss that idea as ridiculous, never confronting its implications for their ideology.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:04 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

"Can we pull Robin MacNeil and Jim Lehrer out of retirement?"
Oh, God, please no, I couldn't take it if I found out anything terrible about them. Let's pull Gwen Ifill back from the beyond.
posted by Don Pepino at 3:05 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Don't fall for Johnson's bullshit. Dude will vote how his donors tell him to vote.

Yea there's a 0% chance he'd ever vote against the Kochs on anything. He's the dumbest Senator in the Senate, I just assume he learned about "regular order" for the first time from John McCain and now he's going around saying it a lot because it gets him on TV.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:06 PM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Huh TIL w/r/t Robin MacNeil On November 22, 1963, MacNeil was covering President John F. Kennedy's visit to Dallas for NBC News. After shots rang out in Dealey Plaza, MacNeil, who was with the presidential motorcade, followed crowds running onto the Grassy Knoll (he appears in a photo taken just moments after the assassination). He then headed towards the nearest building and encountered a man leaving the Texas School Book Depository. He asked the man where the nearest telephone was and the man pointed and went on his way. MacNeil later learned the man he encountered at about 12:33 p.m. CST might have been Lee Harvey Oswald.
posted by petebest at 3:09 PM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

In my opinion the only possibilities for NO votes on the tax bill in the Senate are Collins and Murkowski on policy, McCain on process, and Flake and Corker because they hate the Cheetomonster plus a bit of deficit hawking from Corker. Some of these are more likely than others.
posted by Justinian at 3:11 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

It's only notable in that Johnson isn't usually given to make the slightest effort to appear that he cares about people. (I resistbot him frequently nevertheless.) There may have been some slight alteration in the breeze, but the jet stream is still as strong as ever where he's concerned.
posted by dhartung at 3:27 PM on November 20, 2017

Blunt's not flippable. He's a true believer. Meanwhile, McCaskill is spending Thanksgiving break giving town halls.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 3:27 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

In my opinion the only possibilities for NO votes on the tax bill in the Senate are[...]McCain on process

Yeah, about that:

@NormOrnstein: John McCain praises “regular order” on tax bill. A wholly partisan, amendment blocking faux markup is not regular order. And a debt-busting, plutocratic monstrosity is not a bill he, Flake, Corker,Collins, Murkowski or any sensible conservative should support
posted by zombieflanders at 3:33 PM on November 20, 2017 [25 favorites]

"Can we pull Robin MacNeil and Jim Lehrer out of retirement?"
Oh, God, please no, I couldn't take it if I found out anything terrible about them. Let's pull Gwen Ifill back from the beyond.

Tamron Hall still exists and definitely deserves better than the raw deal she got from NBC. Somebody should give her all of Charlie Rose's old spots and then we can watch NBC weep bitter tears of regret and shame.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:33 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

In sports news: The president recently met with the University of Maryland men's lacrosse team at the White House [via Twitter]. Despite seeming evidence to the contrary, the same face has apparently not been copied and pasted onto twenty separate bodies in the photo. (One has to assume, however, that all of those bros wearing red ties were doing so as part of a coordinated effort to showcase their #MAGA support.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:33 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Blame Trump for making America great again.
posted by marycatherine at 3:36 PM on November 20, 2017

Trump shutting down his charity, the Donald J. Trump Foundation. Hmm...
posted by chainlinkspiral at 3:43 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Jeanine Pirro ticketed for speeding at 119 MPH
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:45 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Despite seeming evidence to the contrary, the same face has apparently not been copied and pasted onto twenty separate bodies in the photo.

Uh.
posted by leotrotsky at 3:47 PM on November 20, 2017

Tamron Hall still exists and definitely deserves better than the raw deal she got from NBC. Somebody should give her all of Charlie Rose's old spots and then we can watch NBC weep bitter tears of regret and shame.

Not to mention Rachel Harris-Perry.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:51 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Charles Pierce: President* Trump Hears Mueller Knocking - And he's doing whatever he can to not let him in.
posted by homunculus at 3:52 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Not to mention Rachel Harris-Perry.

I think you mean Melissa Harris-Perry.
posted by homunculus at 4:01 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

DC people should all gather in front of the white House and serenade Trump with a little Fats Domino and I Hear You Knocking.

I think you mean Melissa Harris-Perry.

I did this when I googled to check if it was Harris-Perry or Perry-Harris. I probably know someone with that name.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:09 PM on November 20, 2017

The shower trick again? Do these guys all subscribe to the same newsletter?
posted by HotToddy at 4:12 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

I just hope Trump's turkey-pardoning ceremony goes as well as his bald eagle interactions.
posted by WordCannon at 4:23 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Jeanine Pirro ticketed for speeding at 119 MPH

"I believe in the rule of law, and I will pay the consequences." Pirro, a former judge, said in a statement provided by Fox News. Continued Pirro, "Gonna write me up for 125. Post my face, wanted dead or alive. Take my license, all that jive. I can't drive 55!"
posted by kirkaracha at 4:28 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Politico, FCC to seek total repeal of net neutrality rules, sources say

FCC Chairman Ajit Pai will reveal plans to his fellow commissioners on Tuesday to fully dismantle the agency's Obama-era net neutrality regulations, people familiar with the plans said, in a major victory for the telecom industry in the long-running policy debate.

Trump-appointed Pai’s plan would scrap the agency’s core net neutrality rules, which prohibit internet service providers like Comcast or Verizon from blocking or slowing web traffic or negotiating paid deals with websites for “fast lanes” to consumers. The FCC will vote on the change in December.

posted by zachlipton at 4:47 PM on November 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

Mod note: A few comments deleted; sorry, this isn't going to be a catch-all for Charlie Rose, sexual harassment,separating the art and the artist, etc. Those links can go in old open thread on harassers for the moment, I think someone's about to post another thread on this too.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 4:48 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

We’re gonna be fighting for net neutrality until the end of time, aren’t we?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:02 PM on November 20, 2017 [13 favorites]

We’re gonna be fighting for net neutrality until the end of time, aren’t we?

On the plus side, Metafilter will be fun to read at 300 baud one-character-on-screen-per-second speed. Like reading ticker-tape in the old-timey days.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:04 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

’re gonna be fighting for net neutrality until the end of time, aren’t we?

Yes. They're going to try to grab the land unless there is a law preventing them from doing so, which is why industry players are lobbying to roll back guidelines and fighting every whiff of actual legislation.
posted by rhizome at 5:04 PM on November 20, 2017 [12 favorites]

We’re gonna be fighting for net neutrality until the end of time, aren’t we?

Nah, only until the power goes out.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:06 PM on November 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

For those who want to be connected to their representatives and given talking points about this latest round of FCC nonsense, battleforthenet.com already has their system up and running. They'll call you and your Congresscritter and provide you with a script.
posted by WidgetAlley at 5:10 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

(One has to assume, however, that all of those bros wearing red ties were doing so as part of a coordinated effort to showcase their #MAGA support.)

Well, to be fair, red is the main color for Univ. of Maryland sports, and is in all their home uniforms. But there is a possible MAGA connection, as UnderArmor has a huge deal on Maryland's sports program and UnderArmor CEO Kevin Plank is a big Trumper -- though he publicly distanced himself when it started looking not-so-good. But I'd bet he's still privately on TeamTrump.

(sorry for the brief derail. I took some grad classes at Maryland and wife is an alum.)
posted by martin q blank at 5:33 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

We’re gonna be fighting for net neutrality until the end of time, aren’t we?

We're going to be fighting for that and every other thing we value: healthcare, women's rights, education, national parks, clean air & water, yadda yadda. These fuckers will never stop trying to take things away.
posted by madamjujujive at 5:38 PM on November 20, 2017 [52 favorites]

Funny thing about that hotel WiFi. I bet you're staying at a chain hotel. The property owner/manager probably despises the system as much as you do.

The franchise contracts began having specific provisions about Internet access around 2000. Provisions that are written in such a way as to ensure that one of a select few vendors (which require substantial ongoing fees) is used. It's technically possible for an individual property to roll their own system that meets the requirements, but final approval is left up to the franchisor. Said approval will never be granted, though, because the vendors apparently provide kickbacks to the brands. I would be unsurprised to learn that the vendors are owned by executives or their friends at one or more of the large hotel brands, but that is pure speculation.

Thus, you are stuck with shit not because it's what anybody thinks you want, but because it makes some already rich people that much richer while silently driving up your hotel bill.
posted by wierdo at 5:46 PM on November 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

Nearly all of the American economy comes down to rent seeking, and nearly all of our politics comes down to those same rent seekers buying our government to seek more rent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:50 PM on November 20, 2017 [70 favorites]

People will go to ridiculous lengths not to admit or accept that they've been suckered. Did Nixon's spiral downwards inspire this degree of dead-ender death cultism?

I have only one data point here: my mother. She was a die-hard William F. Buckley fan and Nixon supporter. I vividly remember her watching the Watergate Hearings and arguing with the television screen. Her basic point was: Nixon was *fine* on Foreign policy! Why did people have to dwell on domestic policy? [Later I read William Shawcross's "Sideshow: Kissinger, Nixon and the destruction of Cambodia" and was startled by how wrong she was] In 1977 we watched the David Frost/Nixon interviews together and while by that time she saw that mistakes had been made, she still thought "Only Nixon could go to China". Things improved for her when Reagan became president.

(Sigh.) If she were alive today, we'd probably be chatting happily about how great it was that Nixon banned biological warfare research.
posted by acrasis at 5:53 PM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

How a half-educated tech elite delivered us into chaos
posted by mumimor at 5:53 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Marshawn Lynch of the NFL’s Oakland Raiders stands for the Mexican Anthem and sits down to boos for our National Anthem. Great disrespect! Next time NFL should suspend him for remainder of season. Attendance and ratings way down.
3:25 AM · Nov 20, 2017

1. Motherfucker go back to bed.

2. I'm so tired of him scolding people, POC and women especially.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:14 PM on November 20, 2017 [54 favorites]

3. Quit live tweeting Fox & Friends. (Tweet came 18 minutes after F&F had a segment on Lynch.)

4. Attendance is not down. It’s slightly higher than last year.
posted by chris24 at 6:20 PM on November 20, 2017 [20 favorites]

Dear Haitians,

Please fuck off back home and die.

Regards,
Donald J. Trump

It's like they figure out the most cruel option every fucking time.
posted by Talez at 6:24 PM on November 20, 2017 [15 favorites]

5. 50 more tweets and he can disappear to be replaced by a tweeter markov bot as our president
posted by pyramid termite at 6:25 PM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jeanine Pirro ticketed for speeding at 119 MPH

"I believe in the rule of law, and I will pay the consequences."

If you get ticketed at 120 damn mph on a public road marked 65, the consequences should be a week in jail
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:27 PM on November 20, 2017 [32 favorites]

Court: President Trump's order restricting grants to "sanctuary cities" is "unconstitutional on its face." Issues permanent injunction.

The opinion rejecting Trump's "sanctuary cities" draws heavily on the Supreme Court's ruling that DC couldn't force states to expand Medicaid.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:28 PM on November 20, 2017 [21 favorites]

Speaking of livetweeting Fox and Friends...

@Under President Trump unemployment rate will drop below 4%. Analysts predict economic boom for 2018! @foxandfriends and @Varneyco
3:55 AM · Nov 20, 2017

Uhhh...aren't analysts predicting that a recession is about to hit? I'm certainly contributing to the increased credit defaults!

Also stop talking about yourself in the third person.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:29 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

> The opinion rejecting Trump's "sanctuary cities" draws heavily on the Supreme Court's ruling that DC couldn't force states to expand Medicaid.

Wait, didn't Scalia caveat that opinion with "Only for use in the present circumstance, no precedent set, nyah nyah nyah"? Or was that just for Bush v Gore?
posted by RedOrGreen at 6:30 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

6. Momma Lynch don’t play.

@MommaLynch24
what NFL team do Trump own ? oh yeah they wouldnt let him have one ,!! LMAO
posted by chris24 at 6:34 PM on November 20, 2017 [73 favorites]

Dear Haitians,

Please fuck off, except for those who come to work for my West Palm Beach resort -DJT, essentially
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:37 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

Put simply, what Google and Facebook have built is a pair of amazingly sophisticated, computer-driven engines for extracting users’ personal information and data trails, refining them for sale to advertisers in high-speed data-trading auctions that are entirely unregulated and opaque to everyone except the companies themselves.

Yep. Why, though? Where my E2E encrypted social @? (Note: Yay!)
posted by petebest at 6:49 PM on November 20, 2017

The Nationalist’s Delusion “Yet it was not just Trump’s supporters who were in denial about what they were voting for, but Americans across the political spectrum, who, as had been the case with Duke’s rise, searched desperately for any alternative explanation—outsourcing, anti-Washington anger, economic anxiety—other than the one staring them in the face.”
posted by The Whelk at 7:02 PM on November 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

BuzzFeed, Paul McLeod and Lissandra Villa, She Said That A Powerful Congressman Harassed Her. Here’s Why You Didn’t Hear Her Story.

Michigan Rep. John Conyers, a Democrat and the longest-serving member of the House of Representatives, settled a wrongful dismissal complaint in 2015 with a former employee who alleged she was fired because she would not “succumb to [his] sexual advances.”

Documents from the complaint obtained by BuzzFeed News include four signed affidavits, three of which are notarized, from former staff members who allege that Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the powerful House Judiciary Committee, repeatedly made sexual advances to female staff that included requests for sexual favors, contacting and transporting other women with whom they believed Conyers was having affairs, caressing their hands sexually, and rubbing their legs and backs in public. Four people involved with the case verified the documents are authentic.

And the documents also reveal the secret mechanism by which Congress has kept an unknown number of sexual harassment allegations secret: A grinding, closely held process that left the alleged victim feeling, she told BuzzFeed News, that she had no option other than to stay quiet and accept a settlement offered to her.

Congress's process for addressing sexual harassment reports is incredibly problematic and complex; Rep. Speier has introduced legislation to reform it.
posted by zachlipton at 7:14 PM on November 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

And the documents also reveal the secret mechanism by which Congress has kept an unknown number of sexual harassment allegations secret: A grinding, closely held process that left the alleged victim feeling, she told BuzzFeed News, that she had no option other than to stay quiet and accept a settlement offered to her.

Sooner or later one of these women harassed in Congress is going to haul off and deck one of these guys in self-defense. Seems like that avenue stands a better chance of exposing his crimes and forcing some sort of resolution of his behavior than the current "reporting" process.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:28 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sooner or later one of these women harassed in Congress is going to haul off and deck one of these guys in self-defense. Seems like that avenue stands a better chance of exposing his crimes and forcing some sort of resolution of his behavior than the current "reporting" process.

I'm going to go right ahead and predict that if that happened we would hear a whole lot about disrupting the decorum of Congress and how the woman should have handled it better and we can't believe a violent woman, she's clearly hysterical and oh the poor poor congressman.
posted by mcduff at 7:32 PM on November 20, 2017 [25 favorites]

Oh, we'll totally hear that, yes. The odds of that reaction being enough to make it go away aren't what they were before 2017.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:36 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Surely it's not a coincidence that both Conyers and Franken are Democrats. I think the Republicans are sending a message.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:41 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

(Conyers is one of the most liberal members of the House; he introduced a House Medicare For All bill before Bernie introduced his Senate version)
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:42 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

For what it's worth, Rep. Speier said last week that she knows of two members who "have engaged in sexual harassment," one Democrat and one Republican. We don't know if Rep. Conyers is the Democrat she was talking about or not.
posted by zachlipton at 7:45 PM on November 20, 2017

There must be at least dozens of members who have engaged in sexual harassment, and I find it hard to believe that Rep. Spiers only knows of two.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:49 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

lol Buzzfeed: Sources: McMaster Mocked Trump’s Intelligence In a Private Dinner

Josh Marshall connected some dots here: guess where Ezra Cohen-Watnick ended up after McMaster finally got him fired from the NSC? Oracle. Was this story his revenge?
posted by zachlipton at 7:52 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Surely it's not a coincidence that both Conyers and Franken are Democrats.

The documents were first provided to BuzzFeed News by Mike Cernovich, the men's rights figure turned pro-Trump media activist who propagated a number of false conspiracy theories including the “Pizzagate” conspiracy. Cernovich said he gave the documents to BuzzFeed News for vetting and further reporting, and because he said if he published them himself, Democrats and congressional leaders would “try to discredit the story by attacking the messenger.” He provided them without conditions. BuzzFeed News independently confirmed the authenticity of the documents with four people directly involved with the case, including the accuser.

So yes, the allegations against Conyers were helped along. That doesn't make them any less serious. That doesn't make Conyers any less bad for doing this.
posted by indubitable at 7:59 PM on November 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

I am glad this is coming to light. I also think that having these kinds of documents leaked to Cernovich is downright dangerous for this country.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on November 20, 2017 [24 favorites]

All 435 seats in the house are up in 2018. I'm really liking the Brand New Congress idea more and more.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:04 PM on November 20, 2017 [14 favorites]

Am I bad for hoping some left leaning types "help along" some of the allegations against scummy Republicans? I mean, I know that makes me bad but I can't help it.
posted by Justinian at 8:07 PM on November 20, 2017 [4 favorites]

Cernovich's involvement just means what we speculated might happen, alt-right weaponization of #metoo against Democratic MoCs, is already in progress. That means more are on the way.

That said: what the fuck do they think is going to happen here? Democrats will think 'oh no, we better back off on Moore'? Because that's never going to happen. I for one would rather burn down the whole thing and start over with a #brandnewcongress than let any of these fuckers slide out of fear of backlash.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:07 PM on November 20, 2017 [47 favorites]

Josh Marshall connected some dots here: guess where Ezra Cohen-Watnick ended up after McMaster finally got him fired from the NSC? Oracle. Was this story his revenge?

If someone caused me to land a job at Oracle, I'd be angry too.
posted by ocschwar at 8:10 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

I think a part of me has been team burn the whole thing down for a while. My frontal lobe is holding me back with stupid stuff like, logic and reason and restraint. But lizard brain would love to see just mass resignations for the creepy stuff and trials for the criminal stuff, and the huge scramble on the part of both parties as men started to be held accountable. As not great as the fact that its a right-wing troll giving us half the goods, lizard brain is slowly winning the fight today.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:11 PM on November 20, 2017

That said: what the fuck do they think is going to happen here? Democrats will think 'oh no, we better back off on Moore'?

No what they think will happen is that stories about Dems will dilute the press coverage about Moore and make him seem less bad to republican voters in Alabama. "Well, everyone does it." They are counting on false equivalencies between sexually harassing adults (which is terrible, don't get me wrong) and sexually assualting children. And they are hoping to discourage and divide the left for the 2018 elections.
posted by mcduff at 8:17 PM on November 20, 2017 [31 favorites]

All 435 seats in the house are up in 2018. I'm really liking the Brand New Congress idea more and more.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:04 PM on November 20 [2 favorites +] [!]

We should elect only women until the historical average is 50%. Only then should we consider electing men. /half-joking
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:23 PM on November 20, 2017 [16 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** AL Senate special -- McConnell apparently thinks a write-in GOP candidate is no longer a viable option. [Daily Caller - not going to link them]

** 2018 House:

-- Nate Cohn: Dems' chance of flipping the House will depend if the results are more like 2017's special elections, or more like New Jersey/Virginia.

-- Vice starts a series on House races with seats that are Dem top targets.

** 2018 Senate:

-- Menendez is likely pretty safe as a re-elect in NJ, despite his ethical problems. GOP can't find anyone to run into a buzzsaw, and on the Dem side, power brokers are lined up behind him. Still probably a good idea for a progressive to try and primary him, though. [538]

-- Former Mike Lee chief of staff Boyd Matheson has said he won't run for the Orrin Hatch seat, if open. This looks to be clearing the decks for a Romney bid.

** Odds & ends:

-- Dems made substantial gains below the radar in New Jersey on Election Day, gaining 93 elected officials on the municipal level, and flipping 13 towns to Dem control.

-- Looks like an effort to get a constitutional amendment in Michigan to set up a non-partisan redistricting process is likely successful, as they have submitted way over the required number of signatures to get on the ballot.

-- Another MI initiative to legalize marijuana has also submitted signatures and looks like a good chance of making the ballot.

-- DKE: There is A LOT of sexual harrassment/assault in state legislatures.

-- Dems should control the New York Senate, but a group of assholes conservative Dems have formed a breakaway group called the Independent Democratic Caucus that supports the GOP for organizational purposes. Sen. Schumer is now calling for them to cut the crap, joining Sen Gillibrand, and the entire NY Dem House membership. Progressives are also trying to primary the IDCs, but this can be tricky in the quid pro quo atmosphere of NY state politics.

posted by Chrysostom at 8:26 PM on November 20, 2017 [33 favorites]

All 435 seats in the house are up in 2018. I'm really liking the Brand New Congress idea more and more.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:04 PM on November 20 [2 favorites +] [!]

We should elect only women until the historical average is 50%. Only then should we consider electing men. /half-joking

Well, I agree, and I'm not joking at all.

also:

"[W]hen I’m sometimes asked when will there be enough [women on the supreme court]? And I say ‘When there are nine.’ People are shocked. But there’d been nine men, and nobody’s ever raised a question about that." -- Ruth Bader Ginsburg

posted by gaspode at 8:27 PM on November 20, 2017 [127 favorites]

This looks to be clearing the decks for a Romney bid.

I for one can't wait to welcome Mitt to the ranks of NeverTrumpers with Grave Concerns that vote with Trump 99.98% of the time including for lifetime appointments of 36 year old judges who have never been to trial like Ben Sasse and Jeff Flake did except that one time Collins and Murkowski stood firm and John McCain wanted regular order so he could make a speech before he forgot about that again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:30 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

We should elect only women until the historical average is 50%. Only then should we consider electing men. /half-joking

I'm totally cool with that, so long as men get 41 seats in the Senate. /fully-joking
posted by wierdo at 8:39 PM on November 20, 2017 [1 favorite]

We should elect only women until the historical average is 50%. Only then should we consider electing men. /half-joking

Also agreed, also not joking. It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing though, isn't it? This snake pit is full of venomous snakes, so let's elect only women and one by one, we'll replace each of those serpents with a non-venomous woman legislator, and pretty soon there'll be no more snakes and we can go back to calling it a Congress.

It's a brave woman who'll run for office in this environment to begin with, I guess is my point, and while we need a whole lot more of them, we maybe should focus just as hard or harder on dragging some more of these fucking snakes out of there first before we expect more women to wholeheartedly embrace serving in the snake pit. Many have signed on already and more are signing on now of course, because we've got some really fucking brave and resilient women in this country, but we might consider doing more to help them than just egg them on from the sidelines. Working with our reps to throw out Conyers and Franken, and ensuring that Roy Moore remains unelected and unelectable to anything beyond membership in his local HOA, will be a good start.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:40 PM on November 20, 2017 [8 favorites]

Well, I'm off to drift to sleep imagining a Congress and Supreme Court and White House and sundry state and local governments entirely populated by (preferably non-awful) women, which officially makes this the least nightmarish bedtime of 2017, so far.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:47 PM on November 20, 2017 [3 favorites]

12/16 Democratic pickups in the VA House of Delegates were women and 16,000 women reached out to Emily's List about running. Seems like a good start.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:50 PM on November 20, 2017 [23 favorites]

@mrsmaris: "Journalists who framed narrative of Hillary Clinton as corrupt, inauthentic, flawed?

Glenn Thrush (Politico/NYT)
Mark Halperin (Game Change, Circus)
Hamilton Fish/Leon Wieseltier (New Republic)
Sam Kriss (Vice)
Jordan Chariton (TYT)

ALL facings sexual harassment allegations.🤔"
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:51 PM on November 20, 2017 [142 favorites]

well what do you know. It looks like it *was* misogyny the drove them! BARF
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:54 PM on November 20, 2017 [30 favorites]

Looks like an effort to get a constitutional amendment in Michigan to set up a non-partisan redistricting process is likely successful, as they have submitted way over the required number of signatures to get on the ballot.

-- Another MI initiative to legalize marijuana has also submitted signatures and looks like a good chance of making the ballot.

posted by Chrysostom

I signed the redistricting petition!
I was not offered the marijuana one. :(
I will vote for it if it makes the ballot, though.:)
posted by Gadgetenvy at 8:54 PM on November 20, 2017 [5 favorites]

Francis Wilkinson, Bloomberg: GOP Surrenders Cherished IRS Scandal at Last

The IRS scandal came to a pathetic, whimpering conclusion earlier this month. For half a decade the scandal had kept delinquent members of Congress occupied and served up reliable programming to Fox News and other conservative media. But when Internal Revenue Service Commissioner John Koskinen walked out of his office on Nov. 9, of his own volition, on schedule, his fine reputation intact, the whole greasy production quietly expired.

When President Barack Obama appointed Koskinen in 2013, the Republicans had been swinging at the IRS for some time. A band of House Republicans later attempted to impeach Koskinen, claiming various misdeeds. But it was a late-inning stunt, a too-obvious effort to extend a scandal that had served so many so well for so long.

Shortly before Koskinen left office, the Treasury Department Inspector General for Tax Administration released the (presumably) final report on the scandal. Like a previous Inspector General report, it tried to soothe Republican feelings – the IRS really, really should’ve handled things differently -- while utterly refuting Republican charges about what had transpired.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:03 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

The Michigan redistricting initiative is an exciting one. A reasonable guess is D +2 in the House, and probably taking control of the state House and Senate.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:08 PM on November 20, 2017 [10 favorites]

Bruce Bartlett, Guardian: Republican tax cuts will hurt Americans. And Democrats will pay the price

I think many Democrats and independent political observers are puzzled by the intensity with which Republicans are pursuing their tax cut. It’s not politically popular and may well lead to the party’s defeat in next year’s congressional elections. So why do it?

The answer is that Republicans are pushing the tax cut at breakneck speed precisely because they know they are probably going to lose next year and in 2020 as well. The tax cut, once enacted, however, will bind the hands of Democrats for years to come, forcing them to essentially follow a Republican agenda of deficit reduction and prevent any action on a positive Democratic program. The result will be a steady erosion of support for Democrats that will put Republicans back in power within a few election cycles.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:14 PM on November 20, 2017 [18 favorites]

Or they could repeal the tax cuts on a party line vote, exactly like Republicans would.

Except that would require discipline and competence.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:20 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

Say what you will about historic Democratic ill discipline, but Schumer’s been running a tight ship, that’s for sure. He’s kept the Dem caucus a lot more in line than I expected. Without his leadership, and the cohesiveness of the Dems, TrumpCare might have passed earlier this year.

It helps, of course, that Trump and the GOP have been so monstrous of late. Still, may the Dems continue to be so effective!
posted by darkstar at 9:26 PM on November 20, 2017 [11 favorites]

It helps, of course, that Trump and the GOP have been so monstrous of late. Still, may the Dems continue to be so effective!

It's really, really easy to oppose this Republican Congress. Listen to Claire McCaskill's interview on Pod Save America today where she endorsed that a bipartisan tax cut bill (which would still undoubtedly be heavily tilted towards the rich and megacorporations) could've gotten 70 votes.

The marginal Democrats in the Senate right now are pissed off that they're being shut out of the legislative process. They're less upset about the merits, and still as reluctant as ever to defend truly progressive goals. If Republicans were willing to throw even the tiniest bit of neoliberal cover, we'd be seeing mass defections. There's about 30-32 actual liberals in the Senate, and the rest of the Democratic caucus will always be looking for every excuse to vote with the Republicans. The only reason that they're not right now is because the Republicans have given them literally not one single excuse. The moment that changes is the moment we lose 8-12 ostensible Democrats.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:49 PM on November 20, 2017 [19 favorites]

I signed the redistricting petition!
I was not offered the marijuana one. :(

I am told this is bad marijuana etiquette.
posted by jason_steakums at 9:54 PM on November 20, 2017 [43 favorites]

The Dems might even be able to pull off a politically popular repeal of the Republican tax cuts by increasing taxes on the wealthy and removing the shitty tax burdens the Republicans put on everyone else to pay for the corporate handouts. But we'll need to push them to do so.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:02 PM on November 20, 2017 [6 favorites]

Johnny Wallflower: Bruce Bartlett, Guardian: The answer is that Republicans are pushing the tax cut at breakneck speed precisely because they know they are probably going to lose next year and in 2020 as well. The tax cut, once enacted, however, will bind the hands of Democrats for years to come, forcing them to essentially follow a Republican agenda of deficit reduction and prevent any action on a positive Democratic program.

T.D. Strange: Or they could repeal the tax cuts on a party line vote, exactly like Republicans would.

Is it possible that the bill is inherently easier to pass than repeal? I don't know the exact details, but as I understand it, the bill is only filibuster-proof if it's roughly deficit-neutral. Plus there are various components that phase in and out at different times. Might those effects combine to make something that would require a more substantial majority to undo than the slim majority that could pass it?

jason_steakums: The Dems might even be able to pull off a politically popular repeal of the Republican tax cuts by increasing taxes on the wealthy and removing the shitty tax burdens the Republicans put on everyone else to pay for the corporate handouts. But we'll need to push them to do so.

Now I'm curious if there's any poll that gives a solid idea how many Americans truly see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 10:02 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Byrd Rule only applies to legislation that would increase the deficit, or increase spending, outside of a 10 year window. So anything that raises revenue but does not increase spending, or at least not increase spending more than revenue, could be passed under reconciliation. Thus, anything passed under reconciliation can be repealed by the same reconciliation rules.

But it'd be a novel idea to use reconciliation to actually raise revenue and, you know, spend it on shit normal people actually like.

Maybe someone should tell the Democrats.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:08 PM on November 20, 2017 [7 favorites]

Kansas voted to increase taxes this year. It's absolutely doable but the Democrats need to be making their case like yesterday and not hemming and hawing. I understand that the politicians and pundits have been conditioned (and have conditioned us and themselves) to think that it's bad politics to push for tax increases but it's not sustainable to just try to eke out what little government we can under repeated Republican cuts and that can't change without standing up and talking about it. Maybe send these folks out to be the point people? They make a damn good argument.
posted by jason_steakums at 10:28 PM on November 20, 2017 [9 favorites]

Politico, Watchdog says Homeland Security bottling up travel ban report, Agency 'violated two court orders' reining in early Trump immigration move, IG contends.

In which the DHS Inspector General finished a report on the first travel ban rollout in October, but DHS is blocking the release of the report, per a letter to Congress. The report includes conclusions that DHS continued to instruct airlines not to board denied passengers after a court order blocked the travel ban, and that the administration gave Customs and Border Protection no notice on implementing the ban, causing massive uncertainty as to basic aspects of the policy.

Records obtained by POLITICO through an ongoing Freedom of Information Act lawsuit underscore concerns by DHS personnel that there was no clear guidance about how to interpret the first order.

"We got a memo from the White House saying one thing and now the Press Secretary said another," a senior CBP official wrote to an American Airlines executive in a Feb. 1 email explaining why the agency just abruptly withdrew guidance sent to major international air carriers.

posted by zachlipton at 10:39 PM on November 20, 2017 [17 favorites]

This is the kind of thing that happens when you start staffing your State Dept. They turn on you & accuse you of enabling war crimes. Can't have that. Exclusive - State Dept. revolt: Tillerson accused of violating U.S. law on child soldiers.
posted by scalefree at 10:59 PM on November 20, 2017 [53 favorites]

"We got a memo from the White House saying one thing and now the Press Secretary said another," a senior CBP official wrote to an American Airlines executive in a Feb. 1 email explaining why the agency just abruptly withdrew guidance sent to major international air carriers.

If only there was some process to approve organization changes to operational procedures and distribute the revised orders to the staff, in a way that authenticated them as official policy?
posted by mikelieman at 11:50 PM on November 20, 2017 [2 favorites]

Surprising no one, pastor who supports Roy Moore turns out to be a garbage human.
posted by PenDevil at 12:07 AM on November 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

I just used the phrase "Trump Crime Family" in a sentence elsewhere. Going forward, I'm going to be using "Trump Crime Family" all the time.

As in, "Whether it's Mueller's obstruction/conspiracy/money laundering/election crimes charges, or Schniederman's self-dealing, money laundering charges, the whole Trump Crime Family is going down."
posted by mikelieman at 12:44 AM on November 21, 2017 [27 favorites]

I am glad this is coming to light. I also think that having these kinds of documents leaked to Cernovich is downright dangerous for this country.

I'm sure the people who effected access to internal Democrat documents and dropped said docs in Cernovich's lap want only the best for this country and for liberal democracy everywhere.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:26 AM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Late to the Franken game, having been kept off politics threads for a few days by a foul cold. Sorry if what follows is all just poor reheats.

Franken's only proper response is that "I was a sexist asshole."

If I were ever to find myself in his position, I think my public statement would have to read along these lines:

"I apologize without qualification to Ms. Tweeden for having forced an unwanted kiss upon her backstage, for having groped her in her sleep on the plane, and for waiting until now to acknowledge having done those things and apologize for them. I am deeply sorry for what I did and wish now that I had never done it.

"I acted like a sexist asshole. I was old enough to know better. I knew that what I was about to do was an abuse of power and chose to do it anyway. Associating with people who would consider such behaviour acceptable cannot excuse it now and did not excuse it then.

"Nor can discounting the point of view of the person I abused. The widely publicized photograph appears to show me groping Ms. Tweeden in her sleep, and she quite reasonably took it as evidence that I had done so; that's how she saw it, so that's what it means to her. Any claim that it was 'only an air grope' or 'only a prank for the laughs' cannot change the fact that in posing for that photo I assumed not only a right to reduce her from a person worthy of respect to an inanimate prop for a cheap gag, but the rightness of spreading a depiction of her so reduced.

"Looking back, I have trouble forgiving myself for acting that way. But the truth is that forgiveness for low acts like those is not mine to give, nor that of any ethics committee. If there is to be forgiveness it can come only from those that my actions have hurt, and it is something neither I nor my supporters have a right to expect or to ask for. But if there is anything I can do now to make amends, I promise to do that.

"I also apologize without qualification to those who supported me in my pursuit of public office. I have let you all down, and I am sorry. You deserve to be represented by somebody with better judgement, and I am therefore resigning my Senate position as of today.

"I have been hugely impressed by the courage of those who are coming forward in increasing numbers to disclose past abuses at the hands of powerful people. This is a trend whose end result can only be good for our country, and I call upon my fellow members of Congress to give careful consideration to their own personal histories in the light of that trend and act as their consciences dictate.

"The truth will out. The truth should out. And the sooner it does, the better for all concerned."

The idea that anyone accused must go, even if the accusations are false and even if they have been drummed up by Bannonites, gives republicans too much power to damn people who might do some good. Plus, if it was met with that level of success a couple of times, it wouldn't be long before they would be trying to pull it on a mass scale to the extent that there wouldn't be a democratic party if a change in response wasn't implemented.

This difficulty disappears as soon as you realize that each accused person actually knows whether they did what they're being accused of or not. From which the following policy emerges:

If they did what they're accused of, or did something that could reasonably be construed as what they're accused of by their putative victim: fall on sword immediately, for the good of the country.

If they didn't: fight tooth and nail to prove it, for the good of the country.

And there should be no mercy at all in the court of public opinion for those who take the tooth and nail option and are subsequently shown to be liars.

If this policy were generally accepted within a political party, the rational strategic response would be to run candidates whose chance of actually having sexually assaulted another person is as low as possible given budgetary constraints on vetting. And if that means more women end up elected, that's no bad thing and won't even have a chance to get bad until the demographic balance in Congress is as out of whack as it already is.

Al Franken was a good senator

Weiner was pretty good at his job as well in many ways.

They've made whatever contribution they're going to make, at this point. They've done the good they're going to do. Time for somebody else to step up and do the rest.

The idea that Republicans would be less likely to adopt such a policy than Democrats should not matter a whit. If the Democratic Party became generally understood to be the one less likely to support predatory abusers and could maintain a well deserved reputation in that regard for at least a few decades, this could only be to the Party's advantage. And as Her Emails clearly demonstrate, even a 2% advantage is enough in a 49:51 election.
posted by flabdablet at 3:16 AM on November 21, 2017 [20 favorites]

The Dems might even be able to pull off a politically popular repeal of the Republican tax cuts by increasing taxes on the wealthy and removing the shitty tax burdens the Republicans put on everyone else to pay for the corporate handouts. But we'll need to push them to do so.

The problem, as witnessed in the 2016 election, is that Republicans are more than happy to paint a raising of taxes on the wealthy as a raising of taxes on everybody.
posted by Talez at 3:22 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

-- Dems should control the New York Senate, but a group of assholes conservative Dems have formed a breakaway group called the Independent Democratic Caucus that supports the GOP for organizational purposes. Sen. Schumer is now calling for them to cut the crap, joining Sen Gillibrand, and the entire NY Dem House membership. Progressives are also trying to primary the IDCs, but this can be tricky in the quid pro quo atmosphere of NY state politics.


I believe the IDC is the more progressive group of Dems trying to pull the state legislature to the left by supporting abortion rights, universal healthcare for NYS, DREAM ACT, etc. as described here

Still results in a circular firing squad in the legislature tho.
posted by newpotato at 3:49 AM on November 21, 2017

I wasn't offered the marijuana one.

I renewed my driver's license on Sept. 29 in Lansing, and there was a person collecting signatures on a whole bunch of initiatives outside the Secretary of State. Facebook post:

Signing petitions outside the Secretary of State:

Frail-looking elderly white woman leaning on cane (she and her companion have a 48912 zip code and are possibly a lesbian couple): "And what's this one for?"

Canvasser: "It's to change the marijuana laws in Michigan to have the same regulations as alcohol."

Fabulous crone: "Hell, yeah."

I look up from where I'm signing a petition to end lifetime benefits for former state legislators, and say to her, "I'd high-five you but I'm pretty sure it would knock one or both of us over."

She laughs and then tells us about her daughter who died of cancer and got tremendous pain relief from marijuana. Yep.

posted by Orlop at 3:55 AM on November 21, 2017 [53 favorites]

For comprehensive NY IDC coverage, google "ny daily news idc ken lovett"
posted by mikelieman at 4:39 AM on November 21, 2017

Maybe Franken should resign, but wait until after this while tax thing is done as far as I’m concerned. If he steps down now, the path to passing that bill gets much, much easier and a lot of people will be hurt by it. A lot. I’m not happy having to stake this position. But the republicans would do this 100% of the time and they’re getting very close to accomplishing their biggest goals. Raise taxes on the poor and working people, give the richest a fat, fat tax cut, get Medicaod and Medicare, destroy the higher education system... I feel dirty wanting him to stay but I feel sick thinking about how many people will get hurt by this bill.
posted by azpenguin at 4:50 AM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Cernovich's involvement just means what we speculated might happen, alt-right weaponization of #metoo against Democratic MoCs, is already in progress. That means more are on the way.

I disagree, you can't call revelation of actual wrongdoing "weaponization". If you want to point to Cernovich's weaponization of sex crime allegations, a good place to start is the smear he helped engineer against Matt Taibbi and Mark Ames, which is completely fabricated.
posted by indubitable at 5:04 AM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

TBH I've heard about Ames being a creep for years. Elsewhere and on the Blue. Also have heard that Taibbi is a creep to on twitter. Are those fabrications?
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 5:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Whaa? I admit I stopped paying attention after reading the expose on Taibbi, but I thought he'd basically verified it?
posted by Dashy at 5:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Or they could repeal the tax cuts on a party line vote, exactly like Republicans would

The reason a straight party line vote won't work is that the president still needs to sign it.
posted by xigxag at 5:28 AM on November 21, 2017

Taibbi is slime and whether you believe that what he wrote in the memoir is true or fictionalized satire, that he thought it was funny is about as indicting.

Jezebel: Writers Matt Taibbi and Mark Ames Serviced No One But Themselves With Their 'Satire'

Chicago Reader: Twenty years ago, in Moscow, Matt Taibbi was a misogynist asshole—and possibly worse

Reuters: U.S. journalist faces sexual harassment furor over memoir
posted by chris24 at 5:33 AM on November 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

If [Franken] steps down now, the path to passing that bill gets much, much easier

I keep seeing people say this, but I don't understand the thinking. How does Franken not being there get the Republicans closer to the 50 votes they need to pass the bill?
posted by EarBucket at 5:42 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

If that Matt Taibbi thing is true, it's very instructive. The author says that he interviewed the majority of the eXile staff, including six women among whom were the two pseudonymously referenced in the really creepy passages. All say that the book was fiction, there was no harassment, the oral sex under the table thing never happened, etc. The author also talks about how the book in question is hard to find and most people have not read it, only selected passages, so there is no context involved, and he talks about a variety of threatening communications from Cernovich, borked links and weird stuff.

I think that if this is true, it's quite possible that, eg, Matt Taibbi has been creepy enough to women that the accusation seems very plausible - that is, he really is a creep - but that he has not actually done what is claimed, and that the claims are constructed by the right out of suspicious but not actually damning material.

On the one hand, the eXile (which I read online, actually, back in the day) was super gross. A man who thought that stuff was funny was super disgusting man.

At the same time, it's important whether it's true or not, because we are trying to figure out what real consequences for people should be, and a bunch of "you wrote this and it was incredibly gross and offensive fiction, so we're going to treat it as if you actually did those things" is going to muddy the waters.

Also - and I hate to say this because I hated it at the time - a lot of late 90s new-cool-media was really disgusting and horrible. If you read fanzines or small press music mags or any kind of "underground" stuff that wasn't riot grrrl, this stuff was par for the course. That doesn't make me think better of Taibbi, because no one forced him to be a misogynist. But to me it does suggest how something could seem like normal satirical writing in the moment, even though now we see it for what it is.

If this is true, it is really important, because it shows us what we can expect in the present moment - accusations against people who are not obviously innocent, who may even be kind of creepy, and who are chosen because they are plausible as accused. This could actually be pretty destructive. I don't think we can underestimate the right on this, because they don't have any interest in establishing the truth, they only want their side to win, and at the moment there is no mechanism accessible to the left to investigate and refute false claims.

In this sense, I think Franken's "let's have an investigation" thing is actually a good idea, even though I am more and more grossed out by him, because the only bulwark against the right is going to be setting some standards about what requires resignations and firings. The bar need not be especially high - there just needs to be a bar. "Everyone should be fired if they say sexually explicit things to co-workers" or whatever standard seems best - it's not the standard itself but the fact of the standard.

Because Cernovich says something does not mean it's false, but it means that it could be false, or it could be intentionally misleading. This is a very, very difficult situation because we're not just dealing with rapist and harasser men, we're dealing with a bunch of right wing operatives who want to screw up our process to their own advantage.
posted by Frowner at 5:42 AM on November 21, 2017 [49 favorites]

Mod note: Is the Matt Taibbi stuff more sexual assault/harassment charges? Because we're really, really trying to have this thread remain news about POTUS, WH, current politics news and updates. There's a thread for discussion of sexual abuse allegations etc., and further discussion of Franken that isn't directly related to political stuff right now should go there, too.
posted by taz (staff) at 5:44 AM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

The eXile was to VICE what MONDO 2000 was to WIRED. It was the Athens to their Rome, in other words.
posted by acb at 5:45 AM on November 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

I keep seeing people say this, but I don't understand the thinking. How does Franken not being there get the Republicans closer to the 50 votes they need to pass the bill?

They don’t need 50. They need a simple majority. (If I’m wrong then by all means correct this. But I’ve not seen anything about a 50 vote requirement.) One less no vote means a majority is that much easier.
posted by azpenguin at 5:53 AM on November 21, 2017

They need a simple majority.

With 99 senators that’s still 50 votes. You need 50-49.
posted by Talez at 6:00 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

And the Minnesota governor could appoint a replacement very quickly.

I've realized this morning that I’m especially mad at Al Franken not just because I liked and admired him but because his entire persona as a politician was about *seriousness.* The promise he was made about dropping the clownishness of his comedian persona for serious, dedicated public service. Well, he didn’t, and now I never want to hear from him again. The sooner he is out of office the better as far as I'm concerned. I'm fine with him staying as a NO for any near-term crucial votes but as soon as there's an opportunity, jettison him.
posted by gerryblog at 6:05 AM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Exclusive - State Dept. revolt: Tillerson accused of violating U.S. law on child soldiers.

Lessee, that's two countries currently committing genocide that the U.S. is publicly rewarding. Who'll be next?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:05 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Couldn't they have a replacement lined up to swear in as soon as he resigns? I was not under the impression that his resignation would not necessarily leave an unfilled seat.
posted by solotoro at 6:06 AM on November 21, 2017

Kushner well on his way to bringing peace to the Middle East: Abbas's spokesman: The PA has decided to suspend its ties with the US, following the Trump administration's intention to close off the PLO's office in DC.
posted by PenDevil at 6:07 AM on November 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

Danny Vinik and Andrew Restuccia: Leading Trump Census pick causes alarm

The Trump administration is leaning toward naming Thomas Brunell, a Texas professor with no government experience, to the top operational job at the U.S. Census Bureau, according to two people who have been briefed on the Bureau’s plans.

Brunell, a political science professor, has testified more than half a dozen times on behalf of Republican efforts to redraw congressional districts, and is the author of a 2008 book titled “Redistricting and Representation: Why Competitive Elections Are Bad for America.”

The choice would mark the administration’s first major effort to shape the 2020 Census, the nationwide count that determines which states lose and gain electoral votes and seats in the House of Representatives.

The fate of the Census under Trump has been closely watched by voting-rights advocates worried that the administration — which has already made unsupported claims about voter fraud — might nudge it in directions that over- or under-count some Americans. Subtle bureaucratic choices in the wording and administration of the Census can have huge consequences for who is counted, and how it shifts American voting districts.

The pick would break with the long-standing precedent of choosing a nonpolitical government official as deputy director of the U.S. Census Bureau. The job has typically been held by a career civil servant with a background in statistics. It does not require Senate confirmation, so Congress would have no power to block the hire.

@brianbeutler: .@JeffFlake @BenSasse @SenJohnMcCain @SenBobCorker could make clear that installing this guy into a decision-making role at Census will come with consequences. Will they? (No.)
posted by zombieflanders at 6:08 AM on November 21, 2017 [60 favorites]

Abbas's spokesman: The PA has decided to suspend its ties with the US, following the Trump administration's intention to close off the PLO's office in DC.

What's to stop the US from just adding them to the list of State Sponsors of Terrorism in retaliation?
posted by acb at 6:16 AM on November 21, 2017

The US would have to recognize them as a state first.
posted by Sys Rq at 6:20 AM on November 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Why Competitive Elections Are Bad" is like A+ Sinister Titling right there.
posted by angrycat at 6:30 AM on November 21, 2017 [51 favorites]

Argh! I used ResistBot to ask my Republican Senators to not support the Tax Bill, and received this response from Lamar Alexander this morning:

You don’t need to be an accountant to know that our tax code is too complicated, takes too many dollars away from Tennesseans and makes it harder to create good-paying jobs.
...
This Senate Finance Committee bill is good for Tennesseans’ family incomes. Its middle class tax cuts will leave more money in the pockets of Tennesseans. Tax cuts for job creators will grow the economy and cause employers to raise wages in order to compete for employees. I look forward to continuing to work with President Trump, Chairman Hatch, and my colleagues in the House and Senate to help create a simpler and fairer pro-growth tax system.

So... you want to raise my (and other middle-income people's) taxes so that "job creators" will create jobs (ps, there's no evidence this even happens) so that our money trickles back down to us?? While removing deductions for teachers and graduate students and possibly taxing the endowment of one of the largest employers in my city (so that Betsy DeVos has more money)? I. Just. Argh!!

I will actively support and campaign for any Democrat or Democratic Socialist who runs against this man.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 6:35 AM on November 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

With 99 senators that’s still 50 votes. You need 50-49.

Nah, you need 49 + Pence. With 100 senators you need 50 + Pence.
posted by dis_integration at 6:46 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

This was about Franken stepping down, right? So right now they need 50+Pence and after they would need just the 50.
posted by Slackermagee at 6:47 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Nah, you need 49 + Pence. With 100 senators you need 50 + Pence.

The vice president only casts a tie-breaking vote in the case of a tie. Otherwise he doesn't vote.

It's true that with one fewer senator on the D side the Rs can pass legislation without Pence's vote, but Pence is virtually guaranteed to OK this legislation if his vote is called for. The temporary absence of a single Democratic senator would not significantly change the balance of power in this case. (on edit: unless a Republican senator is also absent: say McCain is incapacitated by his cancer or one of the "I have concerns" crowd decides to abstain. Which I maintain is unlikely to happen in this case but is at least conceivable.)
posted by Nerd of the North at 6:50 AM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Pence only gets a vote if there's a tie. There's no 49+ Pence. Unless I guess Franken steps down, someone else abstains, and the rest of the vote is 49-49.
posted by solotoro at 6:51 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Because few things scare me more than the prospect of the Trump administration long-term fucking with elections and the census, I started looking at Brunell more closely. For those who are equally curious, here are some observations:

1. His most recent publication is titled Has the Voting Rights Act Outlived its Usefulness? In a Word, “No.” I am familiar with one of the co-authors, and she regularly provides expert testimony on behalf of plaintiffs seeking to vindicate their voting rights in the face of discrimination. This suggests that Brunell is, at a minimum, a mixed bag, and holds at least some views that are a consistent with what we would want from someone in the position to which he may be appointed. To spell it out, he's working with an advocate for minority voting rights to put his name on a paper that trumpets that the Voting Rights Act is necessary to ensure that minority candidates can win office - this is a good thing given the concern that he might abuse power to tinker with how minorities are counted.

2. His ideasabout drawing uncompetitive districts is discussed in this article: Rethinking Redistricting: How Drawing Uncompetitive Districts Eliminates Gerrymanders,
Enhances Representation, and Improves Attitudes toward Congress. I think it's easy to have a knee-jerk reaction to the title, ditto his book on the same subject, but stepping back, remember that there is a difference between a competitive map and a competitive district. Imagine a state that is divided into two districts - you could draw them so that in both, the election is extremely competitive and they are each a toss-up, or you could "pack" both, creating two maximally safe districts, one for each of the major parties. There are definitely arguments to be made about the pros and cons of both approaches, and I personally prefer the former, but there's a difference between suggesting that the latter approach may be better or have strong arguments for it that we don't typically think of, and taking the position that the state as a whole should be districted in such a way that one of the two parties has an advantage (classic gerrymandering). In other words, I think it's overreading to say that his ideas about packing districts are as worrying as a full-throated defense of gerrymandering.

3. The most pertinent thing I found is an article that he wrote about the 2000 census: Using Statistical Sampling to Estimate the U. S. Population: The Methodological and Political Debate over Census 2000. I am not able to access the full article, but right there on page 1 is this statement: "In the 1990 Census, the estimated net undercount for whites was 0.7%. Blacks and Hispanics, however, were missed at significantly higher rates: 4.4 and 5.0%, respectively. And an estimated 12% of American Indians living on reservations went uncounted nationwide. This disparity is one of the central problems with the decennial census."

I can't claim to be an expert either on districting, statistical sampling, election law, or Brunell. But based on the above, my tentative view is that (without abandoning my inherent skepticism of any candidate supported by Trump or Republicans for an elections-related position) this may not yet be the moment when the sky is falling.
posted by prefpara at 6:59 AM on November 21, 2017 [53 favorites]

Republicans do not believe in democracy. They do not intend to ever give up power, and do not intend to ever face fair elections again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:02 AM on November 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

So... you want to raise my (and other middle-income people's) taxes so that "job creators" will create jobs (ps, there's no evidence this even happens)

It's infuriating that they are making the same promises and predictions as they did for the Bush tax cuts. Literally the opposite of everything they said is what actually happened. We have the tape of the predictions, and we have the real world results that show they were either completely wrong (or lying). And yet the same people are making the same arguments, and they don't even try to explain why this time is different and the results will be the opposite as last time.
posted by diogenes at 7:11 AM on November 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Franken names a GOP Senator who has credible allegations against them, they both resign at the same time to maintain parity. In a better world than this...
posted by mikelieman at 7:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Abbas's spokesman: The PA has decided to suspend its ties with the US, following the Trump administration's intention to close off the PLO's office in DC.

To be clear, the Palestinian Authority has decided to freeze working communications with American officials. They have not severed diplomatic relations.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has ordered a halt to all contacts with the U.S. after it threatened to close his authority’s mission in Washington, and won’t allow the issue to be used as leverage in any Middle East peace talks, a senior Palestinian official said.

Abbas’s office sent a note to government departments and embassies stating that “any meeting with an American official is banned regardless of the reason until they back down and treat us fairly,” Azzam Al-Ahmad, a member of the Palestinian Authority administration, said late on Monday. The suspension of contacts doesn’t amount to severing diplomatic relations, he said.

Why the office was closed. Additional context.
posted by zarq at 7:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Big Money As Private Immigrant Jails Boom (John Burnett for NPR, Nov. 21, 2017)

The Trump administration wants to expand its network of immigrant jails. In recent months, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has called for five new detention facilities to be built and operated by private prison corporations across the country. Critics are alarmed at the rising fortunes of an industry that had fallen out of favor with the previous administration.

The Joe Corley Detention Facility is a sprawling complex surrounded by shiny concertina wire located in Conroe, Texas — about an hour north of Houston.

ICE spends more than $2 billion a year on immigrant detention through private jails like this one.

That's a fourfer! 1) proudly deplorable (xenophobic) policies that 2) run counter to Obama era policies and 3) put more public funds in the pockets of major private companies, while 4) impacting the national budget for other, more beneficial expenditures. For example, with $2 billion, you can fund the National Endowment for the Arts for the past fourteen years and still have some money left over!
posted by filthy light thief at 7:17 AM on November 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

For those who want to be connected to their representatives and given talking points about this latest round of FCC nonsense, battleforthenet.com already has their system up and running. They'll call you and your Congresscritter and provide you with a script.

Coincidentally, I used Battle for the Net and made it through the whole phone list. Today, faxing the FCC is on the agenda, but that's for the Net Neutrality thread.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:20 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

As Trump re-lists North Korea as a state sponsor of terror, Tillerson tries to clarify a "branding problem" and downplay Trump's inflammatory rhetoric (my summary of the following)

Tillerson, speaking to reporters at yesterday’s White House briefing, said that while he still holds out hope for a diplomatic solution to North Korea’s efforts to build a nuclear arsenal, he is on the same page as Trump, who has frequently tweeted — at times at Tillerson himself — that he believes the only action Kim understands is force.

“I call it the peaceful pressure campaign. The president calls it the maximum pressure campaign,” Tillerson said. “So there’s no confusion: they’re one in the same.”

(Kimberly Atkins for Boston Herald, Nov. 21, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:24 AM on November 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

We have the tape of the predictions, and we have the real world results that show they were either completely wrong (or lying). And yet the same people are making the same arguments, and they don't even try to explain why this time is different and the results will be the opposite as last time.

I think they know they don't have to try to explain anything, because if the populace had political memories that long, they would've never gotten as far as they already have. Hope I'm wrong this time around, but for decades now, shiny "TAXES! JESUS! TERRORISTS!" maneuvers—especially with a mammoth media spin machine behind them—beat reasoned appeals to boring shit like data and (even recent) history at the polls every time.
posted by Rykey at 7:32 AM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

That's a fourfer! 1) proudly deplorable (xenophobic) policies that 2) run counter to Obama era policies and 3) put more public funds in the pockets of major private companies, while 4) impacting the national budget for other, more beneficial expenditures.

Yeah, hi. Immigrant here. We pay for the jails through the user pays immigration system. The jail costs will be passed on as higher fees for USCIS services like AoS, renewal of green cards, and citizenship filing fees.
posted by Talez at 7:35 AM on November 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

I'll echo prefpara that despite popular assumptions, "competitiveness" is not always to be maximized. If the second-most popular party is broadly less popular across the country (say with 40% support versus 50% for the bigger party), it doesn't automatically deserve a 50% shot at each district for the sake of competition. (It also doesn't deserve to lose every district in a 50-40 race; representative democracy is mathematically thorny.)

Brunell likes the idea of maximizing individual voter satisfaction with their rep. One problem I see is that no matter how well-liked that one rep is, she still has just one vote in the House. (William Simon U'Ren, who helped push for the Constitutional amendment to elect senators directly, had a different idea about that but that's another story.) A district packed with like-minded voters may feel represented while wasting most of its votes.

OK, but what if you pack every district so that its voters love its rep? (Brunell writes "However, if all districts are packed then the real problem... above is solved.") Great! But that's like "optimizing" elections by just declaring that the voters settle on a majority-approved candidate. Voters tend not to live in equally homogeneous geographic zones; cities are much more liberal than rural areas are conservative. (I have my own ideas for a very different approach to this issue, but that's also tangential.) Instead of enabling more of itself, packing naturally brings about cracking, which would mean superficially competitive districts with considerably less-popular (though typically re-elected) reps, exactly what Brunell wants to avoid.

He does seem thoughtful in his writing, but glancing through his paper (which I think is different from the one whose title everyone is talking about?), I don't see him addressing that problem so much as assuming it away. And this could be dangerous if someone else willfully misinterprets him to think "maximizing uncompetitive districts" is ideal, hence packing where possible but leaving the remaining territory highly cracked.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 7:36 AM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

The Saudis managed to convince most of the Arab League to label Lebanon's Hezbollah a terrorist organization on Sunday. The US already labels them as a terrorist group, even though Hezbollah is one of the major political parties in Lebanon. Lebanon is defending Hezbollah by pointing at "decades of Israeli aggression."

Meanwhile, French President Emmanuel Macron met with Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri in Paris over the weekend. The Prime Minister resigned his position on November 4 while in Riyadh -- a move that many have speculated was coerced by the Saudis. Hariri's two children remain in Saudi Arabia.

Macron discussed "ways to stabilise the region and establish peace" in phone calls to Trump, Egyptian President Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres, a presidential statement said Saturday.

In case anyone is wondering where the United States stands on these events, we're allied with the Saudis and Hezbollah is backed by Iran. But who the hell knows about Lebanon itself. Back in July, Trump made headlines by announcing that Lebanon was "on the front lines" in the fight against Hezbollah terrorism. (It obviously isn't.)
posted by zarq at 7:37 AM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

To avoid abusing the Edit function, I should add that I was extremely heartened and encouraged by the gains non-Rs made across the country in the elections earlier this month, so I welcome any change to the short-memory trend that might be emerging. I was just addressing why Republicans might feel like they don't need to justify their screwy agenda within a historical context.

Come to think of it, if the Republicans don't care to point out how the Bush tax cuts failed to meet their stated objectives, maybe another group of people might find it useful to do so...
posted by Rykey at 7:38 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Huh. AP: BREAKING: Longtime Michigan Rep. John Conyers denies sexual harassment settlements, says he knows nothing of claims.
posted by scalefree at 7:42 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Longtime Michigan Rep. John Conyers denies sexual harassment settlements, says he knows nothing of claims.

Even if technically true somehow (e.g. that staff or attorneys handled the entire process and shielded Conyers from knowledge of it), that somehow seems even worse. "I can't be bothered to take an interest in sexual harassment claims against me. I have people for that!"
posted by jedicus at 7:50 AM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Trump tax plan is much worse than you thought
This shows that in certain respects, the plan actually gets more regressive over time. The tax cuts for the four lower-income quintiles basically shrivel up and disappear by 2027, with the two lowest quintiles ultimately seeing either a tax hike or no change, while the middle and fourth see the tax cut dwindle away to almost nothing. By contrast, in 2027, the top one percent sees an average tax cut of more than $30,000, and the top 0.1 percent sees an average tax cut of more than $200,000 — more than double what it was in 2019, and a good deal more than it was in 2025.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:50 AM on November 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Boston Globe: DOJ reportedly investigating Harvard over admissions. Am so conflicted about this; Harvard is my asshole neighbor.
posted by Melismata at 7:51 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

FWIW a rebuttal to the rebuttal re: Brunell, here's Michael McDonald from electproject.org, who has argued redistricting cases opposite him:

Interestingly, there are two redistricting cases that Brunell has left off his CV. In both of them, his counsel removed him as an expert. In the Florida congressional litigation, Brunell's expert report for the legislature showed the legislature did not need to pack the 5th congressional district to elect an Afr-Am candidate of choice. He was dropped after filing his report[.] In the Virginia litigation, where I was an expert for the plaintiffs, Brunell was dropped by the legislature because he was suddenly unavailable after I filed a blistering rebuttal report to what I thought was a shoddy report. Virginia's legislature needed to find a replacement expert, so they turned to the consultant who drew the congressional and House of Delegates maps. He testified that he drew districts for both maps in a manner that was in violation of the 14th Amendment. Thanks Brunell! I don't know why Brunell left these cases off his CV, where we was retained as an expert. But I suppose essentially being fired from your job might not look good.

posted by zombieflanders at 7:53 AM on November 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

What Happened to the 16 Women Who Accused Trump of Sexual Misconduct

Some have argued that there would be no #MeToo moment if Donald Trump had not been elected, even after being accused of various forms of misconduct, from groping to rape. But in recent weeks several of Trump’s accusers have said that while they’re happy sexual harassment is being discussed more openly, they’re still dismayed that their own stories seem to have had little impact. Some have continued speaking out, hoping that away from the chaos of the election, people might be more ready to listen to their accounts. A defamation suit filed by Summer Zervos, one of the accusers, has also opened up the possibility that they’ll get their day in court.

posted by kirkaracha at 7:56 AM on November 21, 2017 [40 favorites]

Fortune, Kimberly Clausing, Commentary: How the GOP’s Tax Plan Puts Other Countries Before America

Do these Republican tax bills put America first? Hardly. On the contrary, they provide a huge windfall to company shareholders, who will benefit from lower tax rates and an easier way to shift both profits and activities offshore. The bills also provide an additional massive windfall to shareholders through special very low rates (5% or 10% in the Senate, 7% or 14% in the House) on income that has already been shifted to tax havens in the past. There is simply no economic rationale for a windfall to shareholders based on their prior tax avoidance, and there is no economic evidence that such windfalls promote U.S. investment or job creation.

In the end, over 10 years, the international provisions of both the House and Senate bills lose revenue, if we set aside the revenue from the one-time tax on prior profit shifting (which is really a tax break). Once the dust clears, the House bill cuts corporate taxes by over $750 billion over 10 years, whereas the Senate cuts corporate taxes by more than $680 billion. These bills both fail to address the large revenue losses from profit shifting, and they lower corporate tax revenues substantially, despite the fact the United States already collects relatively little revenue from the corporate tax.

Beyond these considerations, the vast majority of the tax cuts in the bills go to those at the top of the income distribution, while risking health insurance for those less well-off. If this is an “America first” tax policy, I think we know which Americans Trump is putting first.

The arguments about moving to a territorial tax system are valid ones, but it's hard to see how this tax bill doesn't wind up giving companies significant incentives to move jobs out of the country.

Here's the full AP story:

Conyers, who answered the door at his Detroit home Tuesday morning, says he knows nothing about any claims of inappropriate touching and learned of the story just hours earlier.

Referring to allegations of sexual harassment and assault being made against politicians and others, the veteran lawmaker says he’s “been looking at these things with amazement.”

If he's telling the truth, and it would be really weird to be lying here, can Congress's system really be so broken that the accused harasser has no idea that cases involving him are being settled out of his own office's budget? I think it could be.
posted by zachlipton at 7:59 AM on November 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

I'm by no means saying Brunell is a good guy about whom we should have no concerns. But he's also appeared as an expert in cases where his testimony supported the argument that minority voters were being disenfranchised (e.g., testifying that he saw evidence of racially polarized voting). I know this is a sign of how low the bar has fallen, but unlike others adjacent to Trump, he is not a Nazi.
posted by prefpara at 7:59 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

If he's telling the truth, and it would be really weird to be lying here, can Congress's system really be so broken that the accused harasser has no idea that cases involving him are being settled out of his own office's budget? I think it could be.

Is there any possibility the whole thing was faked to set him up?
posted by scalefree at 8:02 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Republicans do not believe in democracy. They do not intend to ever give up power, and do not intend to ever face fair elections again.

...because they know their agenda is unpopular. Which is another thing I'd like the so-called "liberal media," which still seems to think we're in the conservative ascendancy of the Reagan era, to get thru their thick skulls.
posted by Gelatin at 8:02 AM on November 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

the so-called "liberal media," which still seems to think we're supports the interests of its corporate owners as strongly as it ever did in the conservative ascendancy of the Reagan era

Chomskyed that for you.
posted by flabdablet at 8:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

> Is there any possibility the whole thing was faked to set him up?

It's a possibility, but the simpler explanation is either Conyers is lying, or his staff has been shielding him. As much as I would love that this is a conspiracy, that seems unlikely, and as a rule, I try and avoid believing conspiracy theories.

Still, it's nice to fantasize about Cernovich being charged as some sort of co-conspirator in committing fraud to try and discredit a political enemy of his.
posted by papercrane at 8:14 AM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Is there any possibility the whole thing was faked to set him up?

Buzzfeed double-checked and has direct quotes from the women who filed claims against Conyers. Unless Cernovich hired actors to pretend to be former Conyers staffers, I don't see how it's possible.
posted by suelac at 8:17 AM on November 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

If he's telling the truth, and it would be really weird to be lying here

It would be completely, boringly normal for him to be lying here, in this particular way, if it were true. almost every major case I can remember has started this way, with the perpetrator flatly and brazenly denying absolutely all of it. She claims I groped her on the planet Earth? I've never even BEEN to Earth! it's a thing.

Republicans plotting to discredit decent politicians certainly happens, though not nearly as often as seemingly nice men harassing women, so I would be happy to believe it's a fabrication if it turns out to be the case. but saying that he's never heard of any of these accusations before and what exactly is a woman, or a staffer, can he get a definition in writing to look over with his lawyers? is suggestive of nothing.

& the reason it's not at all weird to lie this way is because it works! nobody would deny everything unless they were really innocent, it just wouldn't make sense! well, if a blanket denial immediately convinces some people that something weird is going on, of course it makes perfect sense to issue one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:25 AM on November 21, 2017 [40 favorites]

InTheYear2017 I'll echo prefpara that despite popular assumptions, "competitiveness" is not always to be maximized. If the second-most popular party is broadly less popular across the country (say with 40% support versus 50% for the bigger party), it doesn't automatically deserve a 50% shot at each district for the sake of competition. (It also doesn't deserve to lose every district in a 50-40 race; representative democracy is mathematically thorny.)

One way to help resolve the problem, and dramatically reduce the mathematically thorny aspects, is to abandon geographic representation or at least curtail it so that only part of the government is representing geographic zones.

If we do proportional voting, so that the party which wins 60% of the vote gets 60% of the representatives and the party that gets 40% of the vote gets 40% of the representatives then things make a great deal more sense. Rather than futzing around with redistricting the parties would have to actually court voters and align to what their voters want.

It'd also help eliminate the problem of geographic regions which have a low population density being over or under represented by the way our representatives are assigned. Rhode Island, for example has a population **just barely** large enough to get two reps so they get 528,149 people per Representative which is good for them. Montana, on the opposite extreme, has a population almost the same as Rhode Island but is **just barely** under the population to get two reps, so they have 1,032,949 people per Representative, which is not fair at all.

We could also increase the size of the House, which makes districts a bit easier to draw fairly, or abandon "competitiveness" entirely and draw districts algorithmically and shuffle up the algorithm every election so that there's never any fixed advantage towards any party, but really any attempt to preserve geographic representation seems to me to be a futile effort.

The very nature of geographic representation makes fair and just representation next to impossible.

There's so very much more important about me than my zip code, having my representation in government tied to nothing but my zip code makes no sense at all.
posted by sotonohito at 8:30 AM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

Now I'm curious if there's any poll that gives a solid idea how many Americans truly see themselves as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 10:02 PM on November 20 [3 favorites +] [!]

Can't find a link right now, but many years ago I read a NYT poll of Americans that showed 20-some percent believed they were in the top 5% of income and another 20-some percent believed they would be some day. This is the GOP base.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:40 AM on November 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

Some AT&T/CNN analysis from the WaPo's James Hohmann, Seven reasons to be suspicious of the DOJ lawsuit to stop AT&T from buying CNN

THE BIG IDEA: President Trump and his political appointees at the Justice Department insist that the federal government’s lawsuit Monday to block AT&T from acquiring Time Warner is not retribution for CNN’s coverage of the White House. But there are good reasons to be dubious of their denials.
1. In every other area, the Trump administration is bending over backward to boost big business.
2. The head of the antitrust division has changed his view on the issue to match the president’s.
3. The administration’s denials are full of lawyerly language that leaves wiggle room.
4. Trump has repeatedly demonstrated that he does not respect the independence of the Justice Department. Why would he prize the autonomy of the antitrust division any more than he did the FBI?
5. There are no precedents for this kind of lawsuit succeeding.
6. The president has made no secret of his deep personal disdain for CNN.
7. White House officials have previously hinted that Trump might wade into the antitrust process.

That is a cut-n-paste job, each of these points are further supported in the article.
posted by peeedro at 8:43 AM on November 21, 2017 [18 favorites]

in 2027, the top one percent sees an average tax cut of more than $30,000, and the top 0.1 percent sees an average tax cut of more than $200,000

This is so infuriating. My income over the past two years amounts to less than $30,000. But to someone in the one percent? $30,000 is nothing. I have a family member who isn't quite a one percenter (more like three or five) and they misplaced a two million dollar check. I could live like a king on the interest from that.

Fucking selfish assholes. In my luxury automated gay space communist dreams, universal basic income comes with a side of universal maximum income.
posted by elsietheeel at 8:54 AM on November 21, 2017 [83 favorites]

Buzzfeed double-checked and has direct quotes from the women who filed claims against Conyers. Unless Cernovich hired actors to pretend to be former Conyers staffers, I don't see how it's possible.

Just to wrap this up, I got Conyers mixed up with civil right living legend John Dingell. Sorry about that.
posted by scalefree at 9:04 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

We could also increase the size of the House, which makes districts a bit easier to draw fairly, or abandon "competitiveness" entirely and draw districts algorithmically and shuffle up the algorithm every election so that there's never any fixed advantage towards any party, but really any attempt to preserve geographic representation seems to me to be a futile effort.

sotonohito, I've been very not-criticizing you lately but if you steal my "crank who wants to greatly increase the house size" schtick there's going to be some very large cakes being made.
posted by Talez at 9:26 AM on November 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Geographic representation will kill American Democracy. The Senate is geographic gerrymandering built into the structure of the Constitution. By 2040, about 70% of Americans are expected to live in the 15 largest states, and will have 30 senators representing them. The remaining 30% of Americans will have 70 senators representing them.

In America, land area votes, and it always votes Republican. People matter less with every passing day.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:30 AM on November 21, 2017 [100 favorites]

The Senate rules aren't really that complicated. In practice one Democratic senators absence wouldn't make it easier to pass things as 3 Republican NO votes would still scuttle it 50(no)-49)yes). It would mean they could pass stuff with 2 Republican NO votes plus one abstention (49-49, +pence) but that's an unlikely edge case.

But this is mostly irrelevant since Minnesota has a Democratic governor and it would be political malpractice if Dayton does't already have a list of potential replacements drawn up who could be approached within 24 hours.
posted by Justinian at 9:48 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Is Ivanka Trump a target of investigation now? It seems inevitable (

Involved in Ivanka's "baby" was a money launderer from Colombia who is currently incarcerated in the U.S., a Ukrainian human trafficker and a Russian investor who was jailed a few years earlier for kidnapping and threatening murder in Israel. Nogueira himself was arrested in Panama on unrelated fraud charges and fled the country; there are still four criminal cases pending over the Trump project. Ivanka apparently claims not to remember the man, although she knew him well enough to make a promotional video with him.

Another notorious Ivanka project was the 2014 Trump Tower Baku in Azerbaijan, which she personally oversaw. This was the project that, according to a recent New Yorker report, was partially funded by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard and served as a cash laundromat for the country's government. This was no hands-off arrangement. Ivanka and the company were heavily involved in all the details, from the interior paneling to the landscaping. According to experts, this was unusual for this sort of deal and indicates a level of personal attention that exposed the Trump Organization to serious legal trouble. […]

Several senators have called for an investigation into this project, which was finally shelved after Trump was elected. According to Think Progress, "at some point earlier this year, Ivanka removed all information about the Azerbaijan project from her website, although it remains available via Internet Archive."

But it looks like Ivanka has finally made herself useful: the new Doug Jones and features her "there's a special place in hell" quote about Moore.
posted by Room 641-A at 9:52 AM on November 21, 2017 [37 favorites]

it looks like Ivanka has finally made herself useful: the new Doug Jones and features her "there's a special place in hell" quote about Moore.

Well played.
posted by Gelatin at 9:56 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

How is the socialist left is gaining traction: Flu shots and brake lights
posted by The Whelk at 10:00 AM on November 21, 2017 [35 favorites]

Trump is about to pardon a turkey, so this would be the perfect moment for Mueller and the NY Attorney General to reveal indictments for state crimes which the President cannot pardon
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:06 AM on November 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

"i'm going to pardon this turkey, unlike that douchebag harry truman"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:08 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Steyer is Just Another Billionaire Who's Angry When Everything Doesn't Go His Way

Tom Steyer is throwing good money after bad: [...]

It pains me that Donald Trump is president, and he certainly deserves impeachment and removal from office. But it's not true that impeachment is what "the overwhelming number of Americans" want. In the poll showing the greatest support for impeachment, an October Public Policy Polling survey, 49% of respondents favored it, while 41% opposed it. That's a plurality, but not a majority, and certainly not an "overwhelming" majority. In an August Harvard/Harris poll, 43% of respondents favored impeachment, while 42% backed no action and 12% backed censure. Also in August, the Public Religion Research Institute found 40% support for impeachment.

So Congress isn't failing to do what the public wants. It's failing to do what not quite half of the public wants. More to the point, it's failing to do what Tom Steyer wants. Steyer is another billionaire who's so used to getting his way on everything that he thinks it's a monstrous injustice when he's rebuffed. He's just like a Koch brother, except on the side of good. I'm sorry he's being rebuffed, but if he were a non-billionaire, he might have a better understanding of disappointment. [...]

And Times Square? Really? I arrived in New York City as a college freshman in 1976, and even by then Times Square had long since ceased to be the symbolic center of America. It gets attention on New Year's Eve, but it's meaningless every other day of the year. It's become a crowded pedestrian mall, and I'm sure I'd visit if I were an out-of-towner on vacation (although no local thinks there's any good reason to go there). It's not America's agora. It's a ridiculous tourist trap. Steyer's ads will be one more bit of sensory overload families from Iowa will see fleetingly on their way to The Lion King.

posted by tonycpsu at 10:11 AM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump is about to pardon a turkey, so this would be the perfect moment for Mueller and the NY Attorney General to reveal indictments for state crimes which the President cannot pardon

what do you have against that turkey?
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:11 AM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

i believe he was an unregistered agent of turkey
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

As God is his witness, he thought it could fly.
posted by delfin at 10:14 AM on November 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

From the How is the socialist left is gaining traction: Flu shots and brake lights link posted by The Whelk at 10:00 AM on November 21 [5 favorites +] [!]

Republicans sent around posters with Carter’s face plastered next to Carl Marx.

I believe Carl is the sixth Marx brother.

Good article, though. Extremely grassy grass roots and new seeds germinating. A Democratic Party/DSA coalition could easily take over the state and local governments in many areas and be a winning coalition nationally while pulling the Overton window to the left quite quickly. Watch and learn, Democrats.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:33 AM on November 21, 2017 [31 favorites]

How is the socialist left is gaining traction: Flu shots and brake lights

Hey, it worked for Hamas.

Wait, OK, maybe a different analogy, but you get the idea.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:46 AM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not a punch in the face but at least it's something, Richard Spencer hosted an event at a Maryland farm. Halfway through, everyone was kicked out [WaPo]:

A weekend conference organized by white nationalist Richard Spencer was shut down after the owners of the Maryland farm he rented discovered he was behind the event.

The think tank that Spencer leads, the National Policy Institute, hosted the conference for about 100 people at Rocklands Farm, a winery and events venue in Montgomery County. Spencer said in an interview that a third-party logistics company contacted Rocklands Farm on behalf of the National Policy Institute this month and didn’t reveal that white nationalists were affiliated with the event when they booked it. The company told the farm’s management only that it was a “corporate” gathering, according to Spencer.

The conference started about 11 a.m. Sunday and was scheduled to continue until 8 p.m. Caterers at Rocklands Farm served brunch, and participants recapped 2017. At about 4 p.m., Spencer said, someone working the event learned that Spencer was there, and management told everyone to leave.

posted by peeedro at 10:47 AM on November 21, 2017 [81 favorites]

He's just like a Koch brother, except on the side of good.

I think Steyer is basically a sideshow at this point, but it is fascinating to think about the fact that seemingly the vast, vast majority of the rich or superrich are on the right. Much of the reason we have such bad policy in the USA is because of the rich and superrich dominating everything.

So maybe Tom Steyer should spend his time and money preaching to "his people" and not the rest of us?
posted by cell divide at 10:48 AM on November 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Really hoping "management told everyone to leave" was journalistic shorthand for the owner(s) showing up yelling "NAZI PUNKS FUCK OFF" and blowing an airhorn.
posted by zombieflanders at 10:50 AM on November 21, 2017 [52 favorites]

TPM: SNL Female Staff: Franken Never Acted Inappropriately Toward Any Of Us!

Oh, come on. "Your Honor, just look at all these people I didn't murder. How can I have murdered the victim?"
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:53 AM on November 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

@pdmcleod: JUST IN: Rep. John Conyers retracts earlier statement to AP, says he was surprised and confused about which allegations. He confirms a settlement but denies the allegations.

That’s...that’s not a good sign.
posted by zachlipton at 10:55 AM on November 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

Tom Steyer is throwing good money after bad: [...]

Eh. While it's probably true that Steyer could spend his money in better ways, I'm trying to think of a reason why spending it on ads calling for Trump's impeachment is actually bad. And aside from a general suspicion of political billionaires and a superstitious fear that talking too much about impeachment might jinx it, I'm failing to come up with one. So I'm gonna say that buying impeachment ads is far from the worst way a billionaire can spend his money.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:01 AM on November 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

TPM: SNL Female Staff: Franken Never Acted Inappropriately Toward Any Of Us!

It should go without saying, but these are all people who worked on the show decades ago, when Franken was an active writer there—not any of the current members of the SNL staff. Many of the headlines, including from NBC's Twitter feed, failed to make this distinction, which could be misleading.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:02 AM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yeah, that full Conyers statement is a really bad look. "I deny it, and besides, I paid these people to be quiet."
posted by Roommate at 11:02 AM on November 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Oh, THAT woman I groped!
posted by delfin at 11:04 AM on November 21, 2017 [22 favorites]

I'll echo prefpara that despite popular assumptions, "competitiveness" is not always to be maximized.

I'll see your "competitiveness is not always to be maximized" and raise you "competitiveness shouldn't even be a factor."

If and when I come to power, I would draw districts by utilizing census tracts to create districts that mostly represent a cohesive community. In other words, I'd try to draw districts around groups of people with the same wants and needs. That way their representatives should, in theory, win their elections by understanding and addressing those needs. The idea is to ensure that whatever representative is elected has the best chance of being the best "fit" for that district.

The nature of our 1st-past-the-goalpost system virtually guarantees that there will only ever be two parties. Set districts up so that they'll tend to give the people that live there the best representation possible and let the parties realign themselves.

The competitiveness of districts would probably have to be addressed before anything could be done just to get it done or to maintain political feasibility or something but I really think that "competitiveness" should be the lowest priority piece of the puzzle.
posted by VTX at 11:10 AM on November 21, 2017

someone working the event learned that Spencer was there

Ugh, what a supervisor's nightmare. Employee comes up and says "hey, I know we're already most-way through this and money has been spent and promises made, but... they're nazis and I'm uncomfortable with that."

Sounds like the right thing was done.
posted by ctmf at 11:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

Given the bullshit smears and accusations that Conyers' generation of black leaders went through, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Very briefly, mind. Like, they better come up with some better answers in the next 24 hours.
posted by tivalasvegas at 11:13 AM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Another day, another incompetent moron is nominated to destroy another support beam of democracy.

Paul Waldman, WaPo: Trump’s new Census Bureau hire could give the GOP a big boost

I’m 99 percent certain it was not Trump who found Brunell and suggested that he oversee the census. So why would people in the Trump administration seek out someone like Brunell, an academic who focuses on redistricting and has views friendly to Republican efforts to rig the electoral system in ways that make it more likely that they’ll win future elections? Because they can.

This comes at a time when Congress has already been starving the Census Bureau for funds, leaving it behind on the preparations it needs to do for 2020. Republicans are hoping to insert a question on the form asking people about their immigration status, which has never been done before — and which could make people in immigrant communities less likely to fill out the form, given the administration’s broader crackdown on immigrants. That in turn could under-count those communities, which would benefit Republicans when district lines get redrawn in 2021.

Now perhaps Brunell will be a public servant of the highest integrity, will prove to be a capable administrator and will make no decision that winds up boosting Republican electoral fortunes. But if you look through the bios of past directors of the census, you’ll see a bunch of demographers and statisticians, most with extensive government experience, no matter which party the president who appointed them came from (Brunell will actually be the deputy director; the director position is vacant and the administration looks in no particular hurry to fill it). You don’t see much evidence of partisanship, until now.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:21 AM on November 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

Hey, Democrats, I have a bold, new, innovative strategy! How about y'all take this opportunity to get rid of all of the groping, raping assholes in the GOP *and* all of the groping, raping assholes in your own party! Plus, I bet they have more of them than you do! Not that it should matter, but, you know... If you're thinking about elections and want to differentiate yourselves in the market, how about running as the party that pushes to get rid of gropers and rapists in Congress!
posted by tonycpsu at 11:22 AM on November 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

@axios:
Trump pardons Drumstick and Wishbone, but says he was unable to overturn Obama's 2016 pardons of Tater and Tot
VIDEO

@dandrezner:
Retweeted Axios
It is literally impossible for him to perform even the most ceremonial aspects of his job without being a dick.
posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on November 21, 2017 [69 favorites]

> Given the bullshit smears and accusations that Conyers' generation of black leaders went through

Eh, I think this claim is from 2015? Conyers is a long-tenured member of the House and was influential on some important committees when Democrats controlled Congress, but I have a hard time believing that this has anything to do with his history as a leader in the civil rights movement.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:24 AM on November 21, 2017

a twitter account purporting to be TEN_GOP (previously) was apparently taking credit for getting the conyers story to cernovich. they have since been suspended again.
posted by halation at 11:24 AM on November 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

tonycpsu, they have an advantage in "expose 'em all". Our voters care; theirs don't. Which is not to say that's not the right thing to do.
posted by ctmf at 11:24 AM on November 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

> tonycpsu, they have an advantage in "expose 'em all". Our voters care; theirs don't. Which is not to say that's not the right thing to do.

...which means our voters can be motivated to turn out in greater numbers in response to doing the right thing, no? Politics isn't just about giving people something to vote against -- it can be about giving them something to vote for as well.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:26 AM on November 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

Here's the thing, even if the info on Conyers came out because of Evil Republican Machinations, I say kick him out. Burn any Democrat with a history of sexual abuse to the ground.

If the Republicans are hunting around for Democrats with sexual harassment and abuse in their background? That's fine. We shouldn't have those people in our party.

But, and this is important, if they're weaponize this we need to escalate right along with them. PI's hired to find every single Republican with a history of abuse and out them. Maybe I'm deluding myself, but I think it seems likely that there are a **LOT** more Republicans with a long history of sexual harassment and abuse than there are Democrats with a similar history.

And if I'm wrong? If it turns out that there are more predators in the Democratic Party? That's fine too. GET THEM OUT! That's the most important thing. Purge the predators from the party and we'll rebuild stronger without them. If it hurts us in the short term, then it hurts us in the short term and we're better off for it.
posted by sotonohito at 11:28 AM on November 21, 2017 [41 favorites]

Politics isn't just about giving people something to vote against -- it can be about giving them something to vote for as well.

NOW you're just talking crazy talk.
posted by Rykey at 11:29 AM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

I would draw districts by utilizing census tracts to create districts that mostly represent a cohesive community. In other words, I'd try to draw districts around groups of people with the same wants and needs.

That sounds like those physics problems with zero friction and a spherical cow, though. Number one, whose wants and needs? Which ones?

Number two, in the past, people have used political power to break up communities and create other ones - c.f. eminent domain, highway and road building, "projects" housing, just as an example.

Number three, partly because of that, and partly because of the atomizing effect of modern life, it's awfully hard to find a cohesive community with geographic boundaries nowadays. Ghettoes aren't as well defined as they used to be. Although richer areas sort of are, I guess.

Number four, given all the history we have, I just don't trust anyone to divide up the electorate, no matter what process they're using.

That's why I keep bringing up proportional representation, I guess. I just don't trust any method for dividing the electorate. I'm willing to work with state boundaries and that's about it.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 11:30 AM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Whelk: How is the socialist left is gaining traction: Flu shots and brake lights

In the month or two before Trump’s election, the Pittsburgh chapter was comprised of just seven people in a group chat on Facebook. A year later, the chapter has 400 members that pack themselves into a union hall in Pittsburgh’s North Side. Aside from brake lights, they’re beginning to train child care providers and gearing up for a campaign against anti-choice pregnancy centers that masquerade as legitimate healthcare clinics.

Fighting for reproductive justice! Fuck yeah Pittsburg DSA!
posted by filthy light thief at 11:30 AM on November 21, 2017 [59 favorites]

Preliminary injunction issued in the trans military ban case. The court said the policy won't even pass rational basis. (links to tweets w/ screencaps; no link to opinion yet)
posted by melissasaurus at 11:31 AM on November 21, 2017 [42 favorites]

The court said the policy won't even pass rational basis.

Holy shit. Rational basis is the smallest bar to clear in the injunction world. It's very rare for a judge to throw something out for not passing rational basis. The judge is basically calling Trump a transphobic piece of shit in legalese.
posted by Talez at 11:41 AM on November 21, 2017 [82 favorites]

if they're weaponize this we need to escalate right along with them. PI's hired to find every single Republican with a history of abuse and out them. Maybe I'm deluding myself, but I think it seems likely that there are a **LOT** more Republicans with a long history of sexual harassment and abuse than there are Democrats with a similar history.

Moore may be a good test case for this. It may turn out, unfortunately, that Republican voters don't actually care if their candidates have histories of sexual harassment or abuse. Certainly it didn't seem to matter with Trump, but even prior to that, a certain level of double-standard has generally been accepted by Republican voters on this topic. Things may be changing in 2017, but I'm not convinced that will change.

(Standard disclaimer: that isn't an argument for keeping Democrats with histories of past bad actions in office, of course.)
posted by halation at 11:42 AM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

The impression I'm getting of the DSA (other than learning of it's existence) is that they've gotten so tired of the reflexive "GAH NO SOCIALISM" nonsense that they've decided to stop talking about what their platform and just demonstrating it.

DSA: This is what socialism looks like and it's pretty nice!
posted by VTX at 11:55 AM on November 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

It may turn out, unfortunately, that Republican voters don't actually care if their candidates have histories of sexual harassment or abuse.

Or that they do care, and they prefer it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:57 AM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Or that they do care, and they prefer it.

For them it's either a pervert or more* abortions.

* This is wholly incorrect based on bad assumptions. Far less abortions happen under Democratic leadership and not relying on abstinence only sex education. It's really about punishing women for breaking the rules they had to follow as young women.
posted by Talez at 11:59 AM on November 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

NOW you're just talking crazy talk.

Yep. Obama promised so much. He even put the * at the end of the sentence with the fine print being "if you elect more Democratic MoCs".

We got health care. We didn't get much else after we lost 60 votes. Then we lost the house and then we lost both houses.

The problem with promising something happening is you need the votes to make it happen and in this age of hyperpartisanship and constant filibustering, nobody can make any promises. You can only honestly promise that if you vote for X that things won't get worse. Of course nobody believed that because we ALWAYS say that but here we are.
posted by Talez at 12:02 PM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

Historically, almost no voters care about THEIR candidate's peccadilloes. It's somewhat of a given that J. Average Male Politician is fifty-fifty to be something of a hound, particularly Southern ones. (I recall a Molly Ivins story about a Texas Lege member who had "Your Cheatin' Heart" played at his funeral.)

Is it right? 'Course not. But that elephant has sat undisturbed in most political rooms forever, as long as it's not flagrant Wilbur Mills-style.

Some would argue that with Cheeto in office, now is not the time for a purge. The counterargument is, of course, then when IS the right time on the schedule?
posted by delfin at 12:05 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

If we consider the fact that sexual harassment, rape, many cases of child sexual abuse, etc. are not about sex and sexual desire but about power and keeping women and other "lesser" people in their place, then, of course many Republicans aren't going to care if their candidate is a pedophile, abuser, or harasser - because it keeps women in their place, using the carrot and stick of hostile and benevolent sexism. Benevolent sexism - chivalry - is given to women who stick to "their place" of home and family, and hostile sexism - abuse - is for women who try to compete in politics.

Sure, Roy Moore is a pedophile, but "nice" girls and "good" women don't have anything to fear! That is the conservative mindset.

As for Democrats, if we want to be the big tent, we have to have our party apparatus welcoming to women (and POC and LGBT people). Women who are afraid of being harassed won't run for office. That's a bug for the Democrats and a feature for the Republicans, except for a few honorary males in the case of the latter.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:09 PM on November 21, 2017 [31 favorites]

WaPo breaking: Federal judge says Trump administration can’t stop funding sex-reassignment surgery for military members (By Ann E. Marimow)

A second federal judge has halted the Trump administration’s proposed transgender military ban finding that active-duty service members are “already suffering harmful consequences” because of the president’s policy.

posted by Room 641-A at 12:09 PM on November 21, 2017 [52 favorites]

Average Male Politician is fifty-fifty to be something of a hound, particularly Southern ones.

I don't actually care or think it's my business if they're cheaters; that's their wives' problem (or not, there are all kinds of marriages and that's not my business either.) If they're using their power to threaten or bully women into cooperating with them against their will, that's a whole other thing.
posted by ctmf at 12:10 PM on November 21, 2017 [31 favorites]

Here Are the White House Visitor Records the Trump Administration Didn’t Want You to See [Derek Kravitz, Leora Smith, and Al Shaw; ProPublica]

The Trump White House tried to block public access to visitor logs of five federal offices working directly for the president even though they were subject to public disclosure through the Freedom of Information Act. Property of the People, a Washington-based transparency group, successfully sued the administration to release the data and provided the documents to ProPublica. You can search them below.

posted by melissasaurus at 12:20 PM on November 21, 2017 [54 favorites]

Mod note: Couple deleted; I get the intent, but let's not use the language/framing that would be used by people we're condemning.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:21 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

It may turn out, unfortunately, that Republican voters don't actually care if their candidates have histories of sexual harassment or abuse. ... (Standard disclaimer: that isn't an argument for keeping Democrats with histories of past bad actions in office, of course.)

It IS an argument for demanding a full investigation by the Ethics Committee into ALL allegations of sexual misconduct regardless of party, however. Democrats can't force scrutiny of individual Republicans despite numerous, credible accusations -- Trump and Clarence Thomas make that clear.

But given Republican's attempts to weaponize allegations against Democrats (and to change the subject away from Moore and Trump to Franken and Conyers), I don't think they can fight against "Yes, let's investigate all of them" nearly so effectively. And it's the right thing to do, anyway.
posted by msalt at 12:31 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Here Are the White House Visitor Records the Trump Administration Didn’t Want You to See

From the site: 230 days of logs, 2,169 redactions (mostly the names of visitors blacked out). I have no point of reference for this sort of thing—is this normal?
posted by Rykey at 12:37 PM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

is anything normal anymore?
posted by localhuman at 12:42 PM on November 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Well if a person was to look at every year for the past couple decades and establish an average for number of visitors and percentage of visitors whose names have been blacked out you'd have a "normal" baseline with which to compare. I'd bet the number of visitors doesn't change much besides generally trending upwards. It's the percentage of secret visitors that could possibly be interesting.
posted by Mitheral at 12:50 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

is anything normal anymore?

Absolutely not.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:51 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

So the LaDavid Johnson story only gets worse, additional remains have been found and identified.

It was not clear if the bone fragments would be buried with Johnson, who was laid to rest on Oct. 1 at a cemetery in Hollywood, Florida. And there also was no immediate response to the grim discovery from Johnson's pregnant widow, Myeshia Johnson.

But Rep. Frederica Wilson, D-Fla., a close family friend, said it was a shame she had to find out about it via the news.

This comes after reports that suggest he had been captured alive and executed. What an amazing cascade of fuckups.
posted by peeedro at 12:52 PM on November 21, 2017 [29 favorites]

is anything normal anymore?

acid indigestion, apparently
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:53 PM on November 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

Your "moderate Republicans," everyone:

@BenSasse: 100yr/old Lillian, who's outlived her 106y/o hubby & 2 of her sons, still lives independently! An honor to deliver her @_MealsOnWheels today

@CharlesPPierce: This guy is going to vote for a budget that efunds Meals On Wheels and lights Medicare on fire.
Brass ones.

posted by zombieflanders at 12:58 PM on November 21, 2017 [89 favorites]

who's outlived her 106y/o hubby & 2 of her sons

Am I crazy, or is this a weird thing to bring up in such a cheerfully-worded statement?
"Hey, Lillian—congrats on burying a spouse and two children! How do you manage to balance work and grieving for multiple dead family members?"
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:10 PM on November 21, 2017 [74 favorites]

I don't actually care or think it's my business if they're cheaters; that's their wives' problem

Nope. As much I think this is true for most people these people are politicians and thus subject to the risk of blackmail.

As the Pestminster scandal* in the UK has shown even political parties themselves will blackmail their own members with the threat of disclosure of sexual improprieties.

*Tory party whips had an internal list of sexual improprieties of other Tories that they used to correl votes. That list leaked. Oopsy!
posted by srboisvert at 1:19 PM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

100yr/old Lillian, who's outlived her 106y/o hubby & 2 of her sons, still lives independently! An honor to deliver her @_MealsOnWheels today

My grandma is 94, has buried two husbands and a son, has an iPhone and texts, still lives independently AND drives (a red Chevy HHR with flames on the side), and doesn't need your damn Meals On Wheels because she got $400+ in Starbucks gift cards for her birthday last month. And also because she doesn't eat poultry.

She fucking hates Trump and the Republican Party. Back in 1960 she took the family car to go vote for JFK and then didn't come back before the polls closed, ensuring that my grandfather (her first husband) couldn't go vote for Nixon.

And it's an honor to be her (favorite) grandchild.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:21 PM on November 21, 2017 [198 favorites]

Presidents only ever pardon white turkeys.
posted by srboisvert at 1:29 PM on November 21, 2017

Just to wrap this up, I got Conyers mixed up with civil right living legend John Dingell. Sorry about that.

You also got longtime reliable center-lefty John Dingell mixed up with civil rights living legend John Lewis but I assure you remembering which of the spent-decades-in-Congress-liberal-guys-named-John is which something that generally requires Wikipedia for the best of us.
posted by mightygodking at 1:30 PM on November 21, 2017 [16 favorites]

Bill Kristol on Twitter: The GOP tax bill's bringing out my inner socialist. The sex scandals are bringing out my inner feminist. Donald Trump and Roy Moore are bringing out my inner liberal.
WHAT IS HAPPENING?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:32 PM on November 21, 2017 [57 favorites]

And what happened then?
Well... in Whoville they say,
That Bill Kristol's small heart
Grew three sizes that day!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:34 PM on November 21, 2017 [70 favorites]

Admitted sexual predator Donald Trump endorses serial child molester Roy Moore for U.S. Senate seat.
“We don’t need a liberal Democrat in that seat,” Trump said as he exited the White House Tuesday. “We don’t need a liberal person in there.”

And Trump defended Moore, who like Trump has faced accusations of sexual harassment and assault from numerous women.

“Roy Moore denies it. That’s all I can say. And by the way, he totally denies it,” Trump said when asked if he believes Moore or the nine women that have accused Moore of inappropriate sexual actions, many of them when they were teens. “And I do have to say, 40 years is a long time.”
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:39 PM on November 21, 2017 [38 favorites]

is anything normal anymore?

hellworld is the new normal
posted by entropicamericana at 1:40 PM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

40 years is a long time

*incoherent shrieking*

And goddamn BONFIRES on the side of my face.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:42 PM on November 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

Admitted sexual predator Donald Trump endorses serial child molester Roy Moore for U.S. Senate seat.

That . . . performance was right up there with the "Fine People in Charlottesville" shtick as great moments in Presidential history.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:44 PM on November 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

40 years is a long time

YES THAT IS CORRECT HOW MANY MORE CHILDREN HAS HE MOLESTED IN THOSE 40 YEARS YOU FUCKING SENTIENT SPURT OF RUNNY SHIT
posted by poffin boffin at 1:46 PM on November 21, 2017 [65 favorites]

“We don’t need a liberal Democrat in that seat,”

50% of the country should come to terms with the fact that 30% of the country thinks they're worse than violent pedophiles.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:49 PM on November 21, 2017 [48 favorites]

Mod note: Maybe let's take the Roy Moore stuff over to the Roy Moore thread if folks want to dig in more.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:51 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Here's the order in the latest trans military ban case. Of note:
-Trump tweets screencapped
-trans discrimination is gender discrimination (intermediate scrutiny applies)
-but government's actions likely won't even pass rational basis
-normally the court would give some deference to military personnel policies, but not here b/c there's no evidence this was based on any kind of review by military people/DoD/etc. - a presidential tweet is not a sufficient policy-making process.
-statutory claim under 10 USC 1074 dismissed w/out prejudice
posted by melissasaurus at 1:53 PM on November 21, 2017 [34 favorites]

The Dollop recently did a two part podcast on Donald Trump's life before he ran for president and hearing it all laid out like that, none of the awful shit that comes out of his mouth is surprising in the least. Like if you wanted to create a cartoon villain whose shtick was being the worst American you'd give them that background.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:54 PM on November 21, 2017 [30 favorites]

WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Don't be alarmed. The Overton window always screeches like that when it gets dragged to the right.
posted by flabdablet at 1:55 PM on November 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

flabdablet: Don't be alarmed. The Overton window always screeches like that when it gets dragged to the right.

The difficulties of navigating the window's right-hand side were nicely articulated by John Holbo of Crooked Timber back in 2013, and revisited this year with Trump's qualities in mind.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 2:05 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Also, the nature of a society having total cognitive dissonance with itself is explored well by S.I. Rosenbaum in a short series of tweets discussing the Atlantic article "The Nationalist's Delusion" linked earlier in this thread by The Whelk.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 2:13 PM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

NYT, Nicholas Fandos, He’s a Member of Congress. The Kremlin Likes Him so Much It Gave Him a Code Name

For two decades, Representative Dana Rohrabacher has been of value to the Kremlin, so valuable in recent years that the F.B.I. warned him in 2012 that Russia regarded him as an intelligence source worthy of a Kremlin code name.

The following year, the California Republican became even more valuable, assuming the chairmanship of the Foreign Affairs subcommittee that oversees Russia policy. He sailed to re-election again and again, even as he developed ties to Vladimir V. Putin’s Russia.

Then came President Trump.

I do not understand why Kevin McCarthy gets to walk around this earth without constantly being asked about the time he declared he thought Trump and Rohrabacher were on Putin's payroll and, swore everyone present to secrecy about the "joke," and hasn't done a damn thing about it since then. Like shouldn't that be the only thing people should ever ask him about?
posted by zachlipton at 2:15 PM on November 21, 2017 [76 favorites]

50% of the country should come to terms with the fact that 30% of the country thinks they're worse than violent pedophiles.


For us LGBT types, this comes as no surprise.
posted by darkstar at 2:16 PM on November 21, 2017 [29 favorites]

is anything normal anymore?

SNAFU
posted by kirkaracha at 2:23 PM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

SENTIENT

Assumes facts not in evidence.
posted by notsnot at 2:29 PM on November 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

Like shouldn't that be the only thing people should ever ask him about?

If people ask questions that are too hardball then he’ll stop responding to questions. Ultimately the people he’s accountable to are his district and they probably won’t give a crap. However, his district in Bakersfield is about to get fucked six ways to Sunday by the tax bill. You’ll probably get a far better response shouting from the rooftops about the massive tax increase for his constituents to pay for billionaire and corporate tax cuts.
posted by Talez at 2:33 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Run this picture alongside some commentary like “laughing his ass off about raising your taxes to pay for billionaire tax cuts” and you’ll probably get the response you’re after rather than pursuing Russia more.
posted by Talez at 2:36 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Dana Rohrabacher has been of value to the Kremlin, so valuable in recent years that the F.B.I. warned him in 2012 that Russia regarded him as an intelligence source worthy of a Kremlin code name.

The code name's not given in the article, but my first guess is "Obvious Russian Agent Dana Rohrabacher"
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:36 PM on November 21, 2017 [49 favorites]

If nothing else, Rohrabacher serves as a useful barometer. We'll know that this nightmare is coming to an end when he decamps for Russia.
posted by diogenes at 2:52 PM on November 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

BuzzFeed, Paul McLeod, Lissandra Villa, Another Woman Accused Rep. John Conyers Of Sexual Harassment In Court Filings This Year:

Another former staff member to Michigan Rep. John Conyers alleged that she endured persistent sexual harassment by the congressman, according to court documents.

A former scheduler in the congressman’s office, attempted to file a sealed lawsuit against Conyers this February in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia that alleges she suffered unwanted touching “repeatedly and daily” at the hands of the Democrat. She abandoned the lawsuit the next month, after the court denied her motion to seal the complaint.

Vanity Fair, Gabe Sherman, “Kelly Has Clipped his Wings”: Jared Kushner’s Horizons Are Collapsing within the West Wing:

As Kushner’s Russia troubles mount—last Friday the Senate disclosed that he had not turned over e-mails about WikiLeaks, a claim his attorney, Abbe Lowell, denied—insiders are again speculating, as my colleague Emily Jane Fox reported last month, about how long Kushner and Ivanka Trump will remain in Washington. Despite Kushner’s efforts to project confidence about Robert Mueller’s probe, he expressed worry after the indictments of Paul Manafort and Rick Gates about how far the investigation could go. “Do you think they’ll get the president?” Kushner asked a friend, according to a person briefed on the conversation.

According to two Republicans who have spoken with Trump, the president has also been frustrated with Kushner’s political advice, including his encouragement to back losing Alabama G.O.P. candidate Luther Strange and to fire F.B.I. Director James Comey, which Kushner denies. (For what it’s worth, Kushner’s choice of Strange prevented Trump from the embarrassment of inadvertently supporting Roy Moore.) Trump, according to three people who’ve spoken to him, has advocated for Jared and Ivanka to return to New York in part because they are being damaged by negative press. “He keeps pressuring them to go,” one source close to Kushner told me. But as bad as the Russia investigation may be, it’s not clear a New York homecoming would be much better for Kushner, given that his family’s debt-ridden office tower at 666 Fifth Avenue could be headed for bankruptcy.

E&E News (registration walled): Trump wine: Pick some up at Shenandoah gift shop, in which a Shenandoah National Park gift shop is selling Trump Wine. The place is probably run by a private concession (looks like noted assholes Delaware North), so the likely explanation is that they just decided to start selling the stuff, but someone has filed FOIA requests with NPS to understand how this came to be.

And with the Rohrabacher story I just posed, @nycsouthpaw points out a detail weirdly thrown in there, which we already sort of knew, but it's still striking to see:

In April 2016, he was in Moscow, accepting a copy of a “confidential” memo containing accusations against prominent Democratic donors that would, months later, reappear in Trump Tower when a Russian lawyer who had reported those allegations to the Russian government, Natalia V. Veselnitskaya, sat down with Donald Trump Jr. to deliver a similar document.

posted by zachlipton at 2:54 PM on November 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

Apparently Trump wine is now sold at one of the National Park locations.

All the NPS concessions are contracted out to independent vendors who have control over what products they sell to the public. The NPS is only the landlord not the operator, so no need for outrage.
posted by peeedro at 2:59 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

I'm not outraged on behalf of nature; I'm outraged on behalf of wine.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:03 PM on November 21, 2017 [48 favorites]

For what it’s worth, Kushner’s choice of Strange prevented Trump from the embarrassment of inadvertently supporting Roy Moore

Well, we can drop “inadvertently” now I guess.
posted by nubs at 3:05 PM on November 21, 2017 [23 favorites]

Is Trump wine supposed to be any good?

No. No it is not.
posted by lazaruslong at 3:08 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

FCC will also order states to scrap plans for their own net neutrality laws
Double win for ISPs: No more net neutrality, and state laws will be preempted.
Jon Brodkin, Ars Technica

The Federal Communications Commission also plans to tell state and local governments that they cannot impose local laws regulating broadband service

Pai argued in 2015 that the FCC violated federal administrative procedure rules by reclassifying ISPs as common carriers without providing adequate notice to the public beforehand. But in that case, the FCC did ask the public for input on whether it should impose common carrier regulations in an NPRM months before it voted. In the present case, the FCC did not ask for input on preempting state net neutrality laws at all.

Senior FCC officials also provided some more details on the rollback of federal net neutrality rules. For the most part, all consumer protections in the 2015 net neutrality order are being eliminated. That goes beyond the core net neutrality rules that outlaw blocking, throttling, and paid prioritization.

For example, rules requiring disclosure of hidden fees and data caps will be overturned. The FCC will relinquish its role in evaluating whether ISPs can charge competitors for data cap exemptions and will no longer oversee interconnection disputes that harm Internet service quality. For a longer list of what's being eliminated, check out this previous article from July. As we wrote then, numerous consumer protections rely on the FCC's Title II common carrier authority to regulate broadband providers, and those rules will go away as a consequence of Pai's plan to eliminate the Title II classification.

posted by cybertaur1 at 3:15 PM on November 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

apparently my idea of important oenophiles is stuck in 1992

I'm still shocked that Republicans would be willing to elect an alleged oenophile to high office
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:18 PM on November 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

It's ok, we don't need the internet anymore. Trump is putting everyone to work in the mines.

Make District 12 Great Again.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:18 PM on November 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

The Federal Communications Commission also plans to tell state and local governments that they cannot impose local laws regulating broadband service

HA HA remember when the federal government was the protector of individual rights against the corrupt and/or racist backroom dealings of the corporations and the state governments HAHAHAHAHA
posted by tivalasvegas at 3:18 PM on November 21, 2017 [32 favorites]

Senior FCC officials also provided some more details on the rollback of federal net neutrality rules. For the most part, all consumer protections in the 2015 net neutrality order are being eliminated. That goes beyond the core net neutrality rules that outlaw blocking, throttling, and paid prioritization.


Unless I am mistaken, this will have to go through the APA rulemaking process, and thus be subject to both public comment and the possibility of litigation on whether the decision was adequately based on what's in the record.

There's quite a long way from here to there yet, and many chances for EFF and other organizations to weigh in.
posted by suelac at 3:20 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Hopeful line from the Washington Post coverage: Congressional Democrats have resisted working with Republicans on a net neutrality bill, saying that Pai's proposal is unlikely to survive an expected court challenge from supporters of the 2015 rules. A Democratic aide said Tuesday that "there might be room for [a] conversation" if Republicans were willing to enshrine the current rules into legislation, but that position is likely to be a nonstarter for GOP critics, who argued that the rules imposed unreasonable costs on businesses.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 3:22 PM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

The NPS is only the landlord not the operator, so no need for outrage.

Yeah...about that.... (older post from the blue....but still maddening...)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:23 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

You also got longtime reliable center-lefty John Dingell mixed up with civil rights living legend John Lewis but I assure you remembering which of the spent-decades-in-Congress-liberal-guys-named-John is which something that generally requires Wikipedia for the best of us.

Thanks for the save & I am an idiot.
posted by scalefree at 3:28 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh I see it's time to renew my membership with the ACLU.
posted by asteria at 3:36 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Hey me too, what a funny coincidence.
posted by contraption at 3:37 PM on November 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

WSJ, Special Counsel Mueller Probes Jared Kushner’s Contacts With Foreign Leaders

Robert Mueller’s investigators are asking questions about Jared Kushner’s interactions with foreign leaders during the presidential transition, including his involvement in a dispute at the United Nations in December, in a sign of the expansive nature of the special counsel’s probe of Russia’s meddling in the election, according to people familiar with the matter.

The investigators have asked witnesses questions about the involvement of Mr. Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and a senior White House adviser, in a controversy over a U.N. resolution passed Dec. 23 that condemned Israel’s construction of settlements in disputed territories, these people said.

The entire story is a long list of Jared's many problems.
posted by zachlipton at 3:49 PM on November 21, 2017 [27 favorites]

Does anyone know how the denizens of r/the_donald are taking the latest news regarding net neutrality? I seem to recall earlier when Pai was named FCC chief that there was a few rumblings of dissent in that subreddit because of his previously stated opposition. Are there more rumblings now? Or have they switched over into "actually net neutrality is bad"?
posted by mhum at 3:52 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

CNN just showed a poll; 81% of Democrats said they would not vote for a candidate credibly accused of sexual harassment or assault while only 41% of Republicans said the same. Party of family values.
posted by Justinian at 3:53 PM on November 21, 2017 [58 favorites]

The Rude Pundit: The GOP War on College
posted by homunculus at 3:55 PM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does anyone know how the denizens of r/the_donald are taking the latest news regarding net neutrality?

A lot of the tweets I've seen on this recently have been hinting pretty hard about how this will affect typical users (PORN) on what you download (PORN) at reduced speeds (PORN) or extra cost (PORN). Maybe it will get through (unlike your PORN).
posted by chris24 at 3:57 PM on November 21, 2017 [71 favorites]

The entire story is a long list of Jared's many problems.

Someone kickstart this as a children's book.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:58 PM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

Does anyone know how the denizens of r/the_donald are taking the latest news regarding net neutrality?

I signed up for a weekly e-mail a while back based on a recommendation in one of the previous threads. I was supposed to get a summary of the recent activity on the various right-wing/alt-right internet bubbles but I just realized that I've never gotten one and now I can't find or remember the site.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?
posted by VTX at 4:01 PM on November 21, 2017

VTX: "I signed up for a weekly e-mail a while back based on a recommendation in one of the previous threads."

That was possibly Will Sommer's Right Richter tinyletter newsletter.
posted by mhum at 4:04 PM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

Preliminary injunction issued in the trans military ban case. The court said the policy won't even pass rational basis. (links to tweets w/ screencaps; no link to opinion yet)

The ban was never meant to survive scrutiny, let alone make it into the body of law. It was, above all things, a stinkbomb to be thrown into the public debate, and as a stinkbomb, it served its purpose admirably, distracting attention from all the other stuff they were trying to get away with, not to mention the mounting allegations.

(See also: Lynton Crosby's “Dead Cat” theory.)
posted by acb at 4:10 PM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does anyone know how the denizens of r/the_donald are taking the latest news regarding net neutrality?

>>I signed up for a weekly e-mail a while back based on a recommendation in one of the previous threads. I was supposed to get a summary of the recent activity on the various right-wing/alt-right internet bubbles

This is like hiring a service to break into your house every morning and spit in your cornflakes.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:11 PM on November 21, 2017 [36 favorites]

Spttr.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:18 PM on November 21, 2017 [40 favorites]

I signed up for a weekly e-mail a while back based on a recommendation in one of the previous threads. I was supposed to get a summary of the recent activity on the various right-wing/alt-right internet bubbles but I just realized that I've never gotten one and now I can't find or remember the site.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

That was definitely Right Richter. Check your junk/spam folder, and if you're using GMail, check the Promotions tab of your inbox. That's where it's being delivered for me.
posted by palomar at 4:19 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yep, that was it exactly Palomar. Thanks everyone!

It's more like hiring a service to go to the worst Thanksgiving dinner for me and telling me what happened and whether or not I need to change my identity and move.
posted by VTX at 4:25 PM on November 21, 2017 [20 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: I am President Trump, and I think women are very special

“Women are very special.” “It’s a very special time.” “A lot of things are coming out.”

This is some form of code or cipher. I do not understand it.

At the same news briefing, President Trump said he does not want to see a “liberal person” in Roy Moore’s seat, in spite of the grotesque and predatory things that women (even Trump voters!) say that Moore has done.

“We don’t need a liberal person in there,” Trump said. It was 40 years ago, he said. We have to listen to Moore, too, he said.

But “it’s a very special time.” It is “good for our society.” It is “good for women.” “Very happy it’s being exposed.”

These are the words to a picture book for children, but the pictures are all wrong. Even the words don’t really go together. Maybe it is a villanelle. Maybe it is a nonsense verse, or an overlong haiku.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:42 PM on November 21, 2017 [33 favorites]

Lynton Crosby's “Dead Cat” theory

Ah. I was looking for the language to describe what might be going on with the grad student tution tax and the teaching material tax.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:47 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

But as bad as the Russia investigation may be, it’s not clear a New York homecoming would be much better for Kushner, given that his family’s debt-ridden office tower at 666 Fifth Avenue could be headed for bankruptcy.

Not to mention they’ve been shunned by their former Democratic Manhattan society clique.

FCC will also order states to scrap plans for their own net neutrality laws

States rights? Anyone? Anyone? Mueller?
posted by Room 641-A at 4:49 PM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

Topher Spiro just tweeted "I hate to report Murkowski has flip flopped and now unconditionally supports repeal of the individual mandate. I guess she, and all Republicans, want to own all future damage to the health care system."

This is not good.
posted by mcduff at 4:51 PM on November 21, 2017 [31 favorites]

Does anyone know how the denizens of r/the_donald are taking the latest news regarding net neutrality?

The post today on there about Net Neutrality is just a link to a picture of Robert Byrd kissing Hillary Clinton (it's an /r/the_donald favorite).
posted by dis_integration at 4:58 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Wow, what did Murkowski get for that?
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:59 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oil, presumably.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:01 PM on November 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

Wow, what did Murkowski get for that?

Drilling in ANWR.
posted by chaoticgood at 5:01 PM on November 21, 2017 [22 favorites]

>>Wow, what did Murkowski get for that?

>Drilling in ANWR.

Fuck. These people!
Fuck! These people!
Fuck these people!
Fuck! These! People!
(Although it fits in the set, I don't think "Fuck These! People!" works. YMMV.)
posted by mosk at 5:07 PM on November 21, 2017 [19 favorites]

"That's a great act. What do you call it?"

"The Moderate Republicans!"
posted by tonycpsu at 5:07 PM on November 21, 2017 [73 favorites]

Look at it this way: the jerkbutts that cause and support this system want you to despair, or to be in a constant state of incoherent rage and fear. They draw strength from that. Don’t make it so easy for them. Optimism is their enemy. Find a way to get there.
posted by um at 5:41 PM on November 21, 2017 [15 favorites]

I just don't fucking understand how she and the rest of her party can look at the VA governor election where 40% of voters said health care was their top issue, and three quarters of those people voted for the Democrat, and think that now is the time to take an obviously compromised stance in favor of dismantling health care precisely when everyone is going to notice it.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 5:48 PM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

Koch brothers millions are a helluva drug.
posted by chris24 at 5:54 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

I am trying really hard not to despair. Really hard. But, I think we may be reaching a point of no return. Soon, there won't be anything left from which to rebuild.

I've already given up.

If I manage to outlive my parents, my "estate" has been turned over to the nearest DSA. I'm the poorest member of my biological family and thus they don't need whatever meagre funds my pension (should I ever be able to return to state service so I can fully vest) may provide.

And while I know that MeFi frowns on this sort of thing, I really don't see a brighter future here. Society has provented me from going to college, from maintaining a steady job, and from procreating. I'm 40. Anything from here on out is a fucking bonus. Especially in our current political climate.
posted by elsietheeel at 5:55 PM on November 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

I just don't fucking understand how she

Alaskans love that Permanent Fund free money.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:56 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Rep. Joe Barton of Texas is reported to be retiring, joining the stampede for the exits. Rumors are he was helped along by a photo he allegedly sent a woman not his wife. Do not, I repeat, do not google for this photo.
posted by Justinian at 5:57 PM on November 21, 2017 [7 favorites]

The twitter thread about it was a string of people saying "What photo?" and then 30 seconds later "OH GOD". Multiple people.
posted by Justinian at 5:58 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

I hope it was this photo.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:02 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Rep. Joe Barton of Texas is reported to be retiring

I am genuinely surprised to hear that Joe Barton is alive. He’s so last timeline.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:04 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Former Jeb Bush spokesman.

@Timodc
I just donated to a Democrat for the first time in my life if any of yall want to do so as well. Enough is enough.
https://dougjonesforsenate.com
posted by chris24 at 6:05 PM on November 21, 2017 [59 favorites]

Do not, I repeat, do not google for this photo.

I did it. Don't do it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:05 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

For people who are morbidly curious: it's Barton naked and showing his dick from an unflattering angle. He looks like a lot of ~70 year old obese white men would look naked.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 6:10 PM on November 21, 2017 [24 favorites]

Topher Spiro just tweeted "I hate to report Murkowski has flip flopped and now unconditionally supports repeal of the individual mandate. I guess she, and all Republicans, want to own all future damage to the health care system."

Terrible, but maybe, hopefully, praying and I'm an atheist, it's not the end of the road.

Politico: "A spokesperson for Murkowski told POLITICO that the comments should not be construed as support for the tax bill, which does not yet appear to have sufficient support to pass the chamber.

“Senator Murkowski said on Friday that she will be reviewing the work of the Finance Committee over the Thanksgiving holiday and plans to look at the entire package before coming to any conclusion on the legislation," the spokesperson said."

posted by chris24 at 6:11 PM on November 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm just so tired. This fight is constant, and we seem to be losing ground every day.

Things looked bad during WWII's Battle of the Bulge too. The allies didn't know that they would eventually win out but they kept fighting and made it happen.

I've kind of stopped worrying about the score. I feel plenty of despair too but the alternative is to give up and I'm not going to give up. So, win or lose I'll keep fighting for as long as I can keep fighting and generally doing the right thing. If the world won't change it's not going to be because I didn't try.
posted by VTX at 6:11 PM on November 21, 2017 [44 favorites]

Did Barton resign from the GOP and join the Lemon Party?
posted by delfin at 6:12 PM on November 21, 2017 [33 favorites]

I'm just so tired. This fight is constant, and we seem to be losing ground every day.

Nothing is over until we say it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!
posted by octobersurprise at 6:18 PM on November 21, 2017 [29 favorites]

CNN just showed a poll; 81% of Democrats said they would not vote for a candidate credibly accused of sexual harassment or assault while only 41% of Republicans said the same. Party of family values.
posted by Justinian at 3:53 PM on November 21 [24 favorites +] [!]

Couldn't find a link for that and I'd sure love to share it.
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:19 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Straight from the source and in color, Mental Wimp.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:21 PM on November 21, 2017 [13 favorites]

Straight from the source and in color, Mental Wimp.
posted by FelliniBlank at 6:21 PM on November 21 [3 favorites +] [!]

Thank you! My Google-fu experienced an epic failure.
posted by Mental Wimp at 6:35 PM on November 21, 2017

I really thought by now, a year after the election, my shock and anger would have subsided. It's grown, so much more than I could've imagined.
posted by cell divide at 6:35 PM on November 21, 2017 [12 favorites]

I do not understand why Kevin McCarthy gets to walk around this earth without constantly being asked about the time he declared he thought Trump and Rohrabacher were on Putin's payroll and, swore everyone present to secrecy about the "joke," and hasn't done a damn thing about it since then

<PEDANTRY>McCarthy told the joke, Ryan swore everyone to secrecy.</PEDANTRY>
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 6:38 PM on November 21, 2017 [17 favorites]

What I wonder is… did the release of that transcript ever cause any rifts between Rohrabacher and his colleagues? Is he upset with McCarthy or Ryan about it? The fact that it happened and everyone involved seems to have just sort of ~carried on~ is surreal.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 6:43 PM on November 21, 2017 [21 favorites]

The fact that it happened and everyone involved seems to have just sort of ~carried on~ is surreal.
posted by InTheYear2017

:|
posted by petebest at 6:47 PM on November 21, 2017 [25 favorites]

Great, 'cause I wasn't already despondent enough today:

.@FinalYearFilm trailer: a look at the inner workings of the Obama Administration as they prepare to leave power after 8 years #TheFinalYear

posted by FelliniBlank at 6:52 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

Tax Returns Identify Dark Money Organization As Source of GOP Supreme Court Attacks
The Wellspring Committee, a Virginia-based nonprofit, donated more than $23 million last year to the Judicial Crisis Network, which spent $7 million on advertisements pushing Republican senators to block President Barack Obama’s court pick, Merrick Garland. After the election, the network spent another $10 million to boost President Donald Trump’s pick, Justice Neil Gorsuch.

Wellspring received more than $32 million in donations last year, with $28.5 million coming from a single, anonymous donor.

One anonymous person bankrolled the theft of a Supreme Court seat. One. Person.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:53 PM on November 21, 2017 [170 favorites]

What I wonder is… did the release of that transcript ever cause any rifts between Rohrabacher and his colleagues? Is he upset with McCarthy or Ryan about it? The fact that it happened and everyone involved seems to have just sort of ~carried on~ is surreal.

It's not surreal if they are all complicit, compromised or actively collaborating.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:55 PM on November 21, 2017 [5 favorites]

T.D., I will bet a cake that it was a Mercer.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:07 PM on November 21, 2017 [14 favorites]

Rohrabacher insists those comments were obviously made in jest, based on the Media blowing his sensible Russia advocacy out of proportion and meanwhile, he and McCarthy have worked well together forever ( depending on your idea of “working well”).
posted by notyou at 7:08 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

T. D. Strange: One anonymous person bankrolled the theft of a Supreme Court seat. One. Person.

So, how do we out this person? I guess we can't, without inside information. But we know which Republican politicians received donations from Wellspring. Can we make that toxic?
posted by Surely This at 7:11 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

T.D., I will bet a cake that it was a Mercer.

Well, you had a fifty-fifty guess, but Wellspring, headed by Ann Corkery, a member of the right wing Opus Dei, was founded by the Koch Brothers. More recently Corkery has been funded by hedge fund manager Paul Singer. Her husband Neil runs the Judicial Crisis Network. So the money trail is from wife's shadow group to husband's shadow group -- great for obfuscation.

Both Wellspring and Judicial Crisis Network are set up as 501(c)(4) organizations that are prohibited from having political activity as their primary focus. Since 501(c)(4) organizations are supposed to be social welfare organizations, they are allowed to keep their donors secret, unlike bonafide political organizations. These shadow money political groups are supposed to be illegal and were the subject of the fabricated IRS/Tea Party scandal.
posted by JackFlash at 7:37 PM on November 21, 2017 [65 favorites]

So, how do we out this person? I guess we can't, without inside information.

No, the 990 is linked in that article, but you'd need access to Wellspring's internal documentation to identify any of the 8 individual donations reported. These dark money groups are typically just a couple lawyers or money managers and maybe a couple party people directing the passthrough money flow. Sourcewatch identifies Wellspring as linked to the Koch network, not the Mercers. They were previously involved in defending the Scott Walker recall election, a Koch signature effort.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:38 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Also, 501c4s don't directly contribute to campaigns, so there's no specific tie to any individual Republican. That's one of the most insidious "features", and forms part of the legal basis for why they're allowed to shield their donors. They're "issue" groups, and not legally allowed to coordinate with specific campaigns, which HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA, sorry I couldn't breathe there for a second. Issues like, I don't know, defund Obamacare! Gorsuch is awesome! What about black on black crime! Like all of our campaign system, its a lot of legal wording that boils down to, bribery is legal as long as you're rich enough. See Stephen Colbert for the full legal treatise, if you need a refresher.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:48 PM on November 21, 2017 [11 favorites]

I came across this picture today, and was struck by the truly weird way Trump his holding his wife's hand. Or rather not holding her hand, as he hasn't enclosed Melania's whole hand in his, as is usual for men who hold a female partner's hand. He is, rather, holding some of her fingers, or possibly just her thumb. [Insert tiny hand handholding workaround joke here.]

The other day there was much made of the way DT drank from a water bottle with both hands, and one of my Twitter contacts, who has some neurological issues herself, commented in a series of tweets that she thought it was possibly a sign of neurological issues. And I'm wondering if this could possibly be another such sign, because that hand hold really looks strange. The guy's holding his wife's hand like a toddler who hasn't learned to hold hands yet.
posted by orange swan at 8:28 PM on November 21, 2017 [6 favorites]

It looks like they might be heading slightly downhill. He supposedly has a thing with ramps and stairs.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:48 PM on November 21, 2017 [1 favorite]

Armchair diagnoses aside, don't wish too hard for a health issue, 25th amendment based on a legitimate health problem or him keeling over would preclude any possibility of Pence going down with the the Russian investigation. I want him "sound" of mind right up until the Muellerhammer drops.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:04 PM on November 21, 2017 [8 favorites]

“Women are very special.” “It’s a very special time.” “A lot of things are coming out.”

This is some form of code or cipher. I do not understand it.

He's trying to emulate empathy but he's a sociopath so he has no frame of reference. Basically he's being a Markov generator, just taking words & phrases he knows people say at times like these & putting them in a blender. The result, as you might expect, is nonsense.
posted by scalefree at 9:22 PM on November 21, 2017 [35 favorites]

Empathy is a foreign language to Trump. He literally doesn't understand it. You know those videos of people trying to speak languages they don't know? It's like that.
posted by scalefree at 9:26 PM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

I want him "sound" of mind right up until the Muellerhammer drops.

Mjüellnir, surely.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:29 PM on November 21, 2017 [116 favorites]

How does drilling in ANWR work under the rules of reconciliation?
posted by lumnar at 9:40 PM on November 21, 2017

How does drilling in ANWR work under the rules of reconciliation?

Step 2: A Miracle Occurs
posted by mikelieman at 9:47 PM on November 21, 2017 [9 favorites]

They came close to doing ANWR drilling under reconciliation in 2005 by stripping basically everything except the bare minimum to allow drilling from the bill.

Drilling has revenue impacts, since the government receives royalties in exchange for the drilling rights. It would come down to how the parliamentarian rules and the specifics of what they put in the bill (and whether they decide to care about the Byrd Rule), but it certainly seems plausible that they can make it work.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

Re Barton, TX-6 went Trump 54-42 (Barton 58-39) and Romney 58-41 (Barton 61-36). If he does retire, it's not impossible to see a Dem winning here, but it's definitely on the outer fringes of possibility.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:59 PM on November 21, 2017 [2 favorites]

asteria: "Oh I see it's time to renew my membership with the ACLU."

Speaking of which, the ACLU is suing the Phoenix Police Department for not releasing information related to police actions at the Trump protests.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:02 PM on November 21, 2017 [10 favorites]

You know those videos of people trying to speak languages they don't know? It's like that.

OK so every Trump interaction with a functional human being is a German trying to say 'squirrel'. Ugh. Why? Why god why?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:09 PM on November 21, 2017 [3 favorites]

Ronald A. Klain, WaPo: Conservatives have a breathtaking plan for Trump to pack the courts

Conservatives have a new court-packing plan, and in the spirit of the holiday, it’s a turducken of a scheme: a regulatory rollback hidden inside a civil rights reversal stuffed into a Trumpification of the courts. If conservatives get their way, President Trump will add twice as many lifetime members to the federal judiciary in the next 12 months (650) as Barack Obama named in eight years (325). American law will never be the same.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:09 PM on November 21, 2017 [42 favorites]

Re Ronald A. Klain, WaPo: Conservatives have a breathtaking plan for Trump to pack the courts – I don't say this often (because I'm agnostic), but my god.
posted by StrawberryPie at 10:50 PM on November 21, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Toronto Star continuing to doing solid work: Donald Trump just pardoned a turkey named Drumstick. Here’s what goes into the annual Thanksgiving tradition.

A few of their predecessors have hit the ripe old age of 2. Very few domestic turkeys live that long. The vast majority get sent to processing plants when they’re between 14 to 20 weeks old.
posted by porpoise at 11:36 PM on November 21, 2017

Come on, Muellergiving!
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:36 PM on November 21, 2017

(Not entirely on topic, but also not big enough for it's own FPP and maybe encouraging: yesterday, Denmark had regular local and regional elections, and they were a social democratic/ socialist landslide. In 2000, Denmark was the second Western European country after Austria to give power to the far right racist idiots, and their influence has been immense and depressing for all those years. This year they were pushed back in every single district across the country along with the entire right. We celebrated my youngest's first election in the most socialist district in the country).
posted by mumimor at 1:29 AM on November 22, 2017 [88 favorites]

You know, I imagine the pressure Murkowski is under is intense. Maybe I'd detest her for caving even if she straight up said, 'Alaska's getting mad money from ANWR drilling plus I am hoping for another twenty years of Koch money.' But at least that would have done a service. It would have acknowledged the reality of the situation.

But to say that the individual mandate is the problem: that obfuscates the fact that the individual mandate is a crucial piece of the health care market. She claims in her statement that she's always been against the mandate, so I guess she's always been an idiot. Is there not a single rational health policy expert she trusts?

Ugh, watching this country eat itself is so disturbing.
posted by angrycat at 1:47 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Is Trump wine supposed to be any good?

It is wine produced in the name of a man who thinks the ideal way to eat steak is well-done with ketchup.

It is the question that answers itself.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:51 AM on November 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

C'mon, I'm sure Trump wine is just as delicious as a Trump martini.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:20 AM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

White House military personnel removed amid investigation into contacts with foreign women during Trump’s Asia trip [WaPo]:

Three military personnel have been reassigned from their White House jobs amid allegations that they had improper contact with foreign women while traveling with President Trump on his recent trip to Asia, according to officials familiar with the situation.

The service members worked for the White House Communications Agency, a specialized military unit that helps provide the president, vice president, Secret Service and other officials with secure communications.
...
The episode comes after four military personnel on the same White House team faced allegations related to their behavior during a trip to Panama in August with Vice President Pence.

The article recalls the Secret Service involvement in the 2012 Cartagena prostitution incident without mentioning that 12 US armed forces members from the same unit were investigated and disciplined as part of that incident as well.
posted by peeedro at 2:21 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Sources: McMaster Mocked Trump’s Intelligence In a Private Dinner

Called it!
posted by PenDevil at 2:23 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

The only word I can find for this: [real]

@realDonaldTrump

It wasn’t the White House, it wasn’t the State Department, it wasn’t father LaVar’s so-called people on the ground in China that got his son out of a long term prison sentence - IT WAS ME. Too bad! LaVar is just a poor man’s version of Don King, but without the hair. Just think..

@realDonaldTrump

...LaVar, you could have spent the next 5 to 10 years during Thanksgiving with your son in China, but no NBA contract to support you. But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!
posted by Crystalinne at 2:44 AM on November 22, 2017 [34 favorites]

Wow.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:49 AM on November 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

There are few heels in wrestling these days who are good enough to get you to root for other heels just by attacking them. He would truly be a master had he not escaped from his ideal genre into the now nightmarish real world in which we are all now forced to job to him on a daily basis.
posted by bootlegpop at 2:50 AM on November 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

I don't know how anyone can read that and not think the 25th Amendment applies.
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 AM on November 22, 2017 [38 favorites]

I mean it’s the least of the issues with those tweets, but the son who was in China is not the one who just signed a huge NBA contract.
posted by chris24 at 2:55 AM on November 22, 2017 [30 favorites]

Oh, I think we know why Trump mixed the two up.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:00 AM on November 22, 2017 [42 favorites]

And if we don't seize this moment to clog our representatives' offices and pound the drums of impeachment relentlessly and deafeningly, then fuck us.

Not fuck them. Fuck us.

tl;dr: fuck us.
posted by perspicio at 3:02 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

I don't know how anyone can read that and not think the 25th Amendment applies.
posted by zachlipton at 2:53 AM on November 22 [2 favorites +] [!]

This. A thousand times this.
posted by From Bklyn at 3:14 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Still going against black athletes and parents.

Donald J. Trump Retweeted
@Realjmannarino
The ungratefulness is something I’ve never seen before. If you get someone’s son out of prison, he should be grateful to you! Period. I don’t care. If Hillary got my kid out of prison, as much as I hate the woman, I’d thank her corrupt ass!

@realDonaldTrump
The NFL is now thinking about a new idea - keeping teams in the Locker Room during the National Anthem next season. That’s almost as bad as kneeling! When will the highly paid Commissioner finally get tough and smart? This issue is killing your league!.....
posted by chris24 at 3:15 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

But remember LaVar, shoplifting is NOT a little thing. It’s a really big deal, especially in China. Ungrateful fool!

I came this close to replying to him with "Get back to work, you stupid asshole"...but then I remembered what it looks like when he actually tries to be President.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 3:15 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

At least Nixon only said shit like this in private.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:20 AM on November 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

If we wish to bend the arc of history toward justice, then each transgression should engender greater resistance.

Instead I see attenuation. More outrage, but also more ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Learned helplessness.

Sometimes rebellion can be a real cool hand.
posted by perspicio at 3:22 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

The NFL is now thinking about a new idea - keeping teams in the Locker Room during the National Anthem next season.

Not a new idea, the NFL did this pre-2009 before they started accepting tons of money from the Defence Dept.
posted by PenDevil at 3:24 AM on November 22, 2017 [46 favorites]

@JasonKander:
I don't think @SenTedCruz has fully thought through how ending #NetNeutrality will affect his (ahem) browsing habits.
posted by chris24 at 3:32 AM on November 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

The ungratefulness is something I’ve never seen before. If you get someone’s son out of prison, he should be grateful to you!

Compare this to when Bill Clinton went to North Korea in 2009 to secure the release of two Americans held there and all he had to do was sit in a shitty photo-op.
posted by PenDevil at 3:34 AM on November 22, 2017

Now Trump's twits are going after LeVar Burton on Twitter because they can't tell the difference between him and Ball. Guess they should have watched more Reading Rainbow as children ...
posted by meowf at 3:59 AM on November 22, 2017 [42 favorites]

Please tell me people on the tweety are asking if obstruction of justice is a bigger deal than shoplifting.

I hope the Trump mirror is in effect on that whole, "if somebody helps your son out of prison." [Narrator: Nobody helped.]
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 4:00 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Please tell me people on the tweety are asking if obstruction of justice is a bigger deal than shoplifting.

Well, child molestation has certainly come up.

What hasn't come up from Donny is the US military plane that crashed off of Japan with 11 Americans on it. Priorities.
posted by chris24 at 4:01 AM on November 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

Keep trying, Donald. If you tweet three or four more crazy things you might knock TRUMP ENDORSES KNOWN PEDOPHILE off the top of the newsfeed.
posted by mmoncur at 4:01 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

At least LeVar is amused.
posted by meowf at 4:02 AM on November 22, 2017 [24 favorites]

In more cheerful news: has anybody paid attention to the state of the Trump Combover in recent weeks? To my eye, it looks like the souffle is collapsing. Wings fall apart; the centre cannot hold.

I quite enjoy pondering the sinking feeling he must surely get from looking in his mirror of a morning and knowing in his heart of hearts that there is a day coming, and coming quite soon, when not even he will be able to maintain the feeble pretence that the Combover was ever fit for purpose.

I'm half expecting an Eyebrow Surge.
posted by flabdablet at 4:05 AM on November 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

If you look at pictures of 80's Donald Trump, he had quite a bushy eyebrow thing going that a stylist or makeup person thankfully has talked him out of.
posted by peeedro at 4:09 AM on November 22, 2017

In more cheerful news: has anybody paid attention to the state of the Trump Combover in recent weeks?

With all the required travel and those pesky White House visitor logs he can only get his weave touched up when he goes to New York.
posted by PenDevil at 4:10 AM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Surely Mueller wants to ruin trumps turkey day by dropping some indictments or something today?

Maybe they'll drag Eric away from the kiddie table in leg cuffs?
posted by ian1977 at 4:12 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Surely Mueller wants to ruin trumps turkey day by dropping some indictments or something today?

Oh, I think LAST NIGHT was good timing to ruin the Kushner's long weekend, as zachlipton pointed out about 13 hours ago...
posted by mikelieman at 4:45 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Now Trump's twits are going after LeVar Burton on Twitter because they can't tell the difference between him and Ball.

Welp, today might be the day I finally figure out how to write a Twitter bot so that it'll reply to all of those people with this image.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 4:53 AM on November 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

If Republicans had a tenth of the backbone of their subtweets...

@marcorubio
Do not be friendly with hotheads,nor associate with the wrathful. Proverbs 22:24
posted by chris24 at 5:13 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

So, Obama's first periodic physical exam as president by the White House Medical Unit was in February of 2010. Can we similarily expect one for Trump in spring next year or how are they usually scheduled? Is anyone in the press asking about that? Could be interesting, given that the pre-election medical evaluation was distinctively Spacemanesque...
posted by ltl at 5:15 AM on November 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

In other he-can't-seriously-oh-yes-he-can news: Dude Who Tripled Price of Insulin Nominated to Regulate Price of Insulin.
posted by PontifexPrimus at 5:28 AM on November 22, 2017 [36 favorites]

Trump retweeted Laura Ingraham's apparent praise of Charles Manson.

@IngrahamAngle
More Laura Ingraham Retweeted NYT Opinion
“Far right”? You mean “right so far,” as in @realDonaldTrump has been right so far abt how to kick the economy into high gear.

@nytopinion
Charles Manson wasn't the inevitable outgrowth of the Sixties. If anything, he was a harbinger of today's far right. http://nyti.ms/2hN7PMs
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:40 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Charles Manson wasn't the inevitable outgrowth of the Sixties. If anything, he was a harbinger of today's far right.

I dunno, my hippy parents dragging me around from commune to commune like an old handbag when I was an infant, getting kicked out for really only wanting to party and not contribute any work, then throwing up their hands and dropping me off at my grandparents covered in ant bites to skip off for more adventures when I wasn't even quite a year old sure seems of a piece with the kind of carelessness and negligence and follow your bliss even if it hurts others mindset some started to adopt in the 60s. Of course, my dad wherever he is and if he's still alive is probably a rabid Trump supporter now. A lot of old hippies broke right wing in the 90s.
posted by saulgoodman at 5:53 AM on November 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

“Ungrateful fool”? What, is he cosplaying as Dr. Doom today?
posted by The Card Cheat at 5:55 AM on November 22, 2017 [35 favorites]

That Ingraham tweet and Trump retweet is so weird. First, the column doesn’t tie Manson to Trump, just Dylann Roof, Alex Jones, etc. So why Ingraham wanted to link Trump to an insane mass murderer I have no idea. And Trump clearly didn’t even read the article because he gladly associated himself with Manson just because Ingraham said something positive about him. Both are idiots.

Oh, and...

@ThePlumLineGS
Quinnipiac:

Who do you believe is more responsible for the current economy: Obama, or Trump?

Obama 50

Trump 37

(link: https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2501)
posted by chris24 at 6:02 AM on November 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

chris24: Donald J. Trump Retweeted @Realjmannarino: If Hillary got my kid out of prison, as much as I hate the woman, I’d thank her corrupt ass!

I'm guessing that if LaVar Ball sees this, he'll consider saying what came to my mind: "You know what? Thank you, Mr. Trump's corrupt ass."
posted by InTheYear2017 at 6:03 AM on November 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

really only wanting to party and not contribute any work

Now there's an upper management attitude if ever I saw one.
posted by flabdablet at 6:05 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

I assume Ingraham's reaction was mainly inspired by defensiveness over an attack on anything "right-wing".

But the whole effect is rather like Biff proudly announcing he eats shit for breakfast.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 6:08 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

>The service members worked for the White House Communications Agency, a specialized military unit that helps provide the president, vice president, Secret Service and other officials with secure communications.

This is the "making sure he has access to Twitter" people? That would explain a few things, actually.
posted by petebest at 6:13 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

But the whole effect is rather like Biff proudly announcing he eats shit for breakfast.

only the best shit
posted by entropicamericana at 6:13 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

But the whole effect is rather like Biff proudly announcing he eats shit for breakfast.

You mean Shooter McGavin?
posted by Talez at 6:17 AM on November 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

If Hillary got my kid out of prison, as much as I hate the woman, I’d thank her corrupt ass!

*Narrator voice* She won't.
posted by solotoro at 6:21 AM on November 22, 2017 [20 favorites]

via PoliticalWire, Quote of the Day:

“We had so much shit in our entire technology ecosystem that we couldn’t clean it up. Oh man, those Russians were on us like white on rice. I mean, they were, Joe, they were destroying data, critical data, Joe.

I had a walking list for precinct 89 in Washington, D.C. I know precinct 89, right? And the Russians went in there and corrupted all of our critical data. All of our critical data. So, I no longer trusted this damn list that I’ve had for over 20 years of knowing every frequent voter, every Democratic voter.”

— Donna Brazile, in an interview on Sirius XM, on the extent of the Russian hacking of the DNC’s computer systems.

NO COLLUSION
posted by petebest at 6:27 AM on November 22, 2017 [41 favorites]

Talez: You mean Shooter McGavin?

It seems I do. I swear I had a fully-detailed memory of that exchange being in Back to the Future, even hearing the lines in the actors' voices. So I looked up "Shooter McGavin", found the clip, thought "Wow, they stole that from BttF!". Nope, they didn't. Apparently this is my personal Mandela Effect. In my defense, he actors playing McGavin and Biff look similar. But to my shame, apparently I saw at least part of Happy Gilmore once.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 6:32 AM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

I think of Biff and eating bowls of shit in most of these Trump threads.
posted by cmfletcher at 6:34 AM on November 22, 2017

Of course, my dad wherever he is and if he's still alive is probably a rabid Trump supporter now. A lot of old hippies broke right wing in the 90s.

Well, both combine self-righteousness with an abdication of responsibility, so I can see where there's an overlap.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:41 AM on November 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

I think of Biff and eating bowls of shit in most of these Trump threads.

That's about as funny as a screen door on a battleship
posted by museum of fire ants at 6:44 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

A lot of old hippies broke right wing in the 90s

both combine self-righteousness with an abdication of responsibility

SEE ALSO: rugged individualism; libertarianism; general dickishness
posted by perspicio at 6:54 AM on November 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

“We had so much shit in our entire technology ecosystem that we couldn’t clean it up. Oh man, those Russians were on us like white on rice. I mean, they were, Joe, they were destroying data, critical data, Joe.

This is new, right? We know that data and risotto recipes were copied from DNC and DCCC servers, but I don't remember any claims of malicious tampering. Am I remembering wrong, are there other reports of this happening, or is this another episode of shit Donna Brazile says?
posted by peeedro at 6:55 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

If conservatives get their way, President Trump will add twice as many lifetime members to the federal judiciary in the next 12 months (650) as Barack Obama named in eight years (325). American law will never be the same.

If they do that, you just name 1300 new federal judges under the next Democratic president.

And then pass legislation requiring 2/3 of Senate to create new federal judgeships.

And create a mandatory retirement age of 70 for all federal judges. Including the Supreme Court (that'd open all seats but Sotomayer, Kagan, Roberts, and Gorsuch by the next election).

Then appoint a series of liberal judges in their 40s to every open judgeship, including USSC.

Fire with fire.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:57 AM on November 22, 2017 [44 favorites]

I think of Biff and eating bowls of shit in most of these Trump threads.

That's about as funny as a screen door on a battleship

Why don't you make like a tree, and get outta here?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:58 AM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Fire with fire.

You'd have to nuke the filibuster from orbit to do that.
posted by Talez at 6:59 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Fire with fire.

You'd have to nuke the filibuster from orbit to do that.

Fine by me. After we create the new states of Puerto Rico, Washington DC, Guam, USVI, and Northern Marianas/American Samoa I'm not too worried about getting under 51 senators in the near future.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:05 AM on November 22, 2017 [34 favorites]

So here's a piece by Mark Bauerlein on being a Trumpist during Thanksgiving. It's... illuminating. If you like illuminating bullshit.

Brief summary: Trumpists are the real victims, sympathy is a zero sum game, millenials are irrational voters and not carefully measuring 20 years of failed GOP policies against their own futures. Trump is good because he's bringing back Western Civilization and Literature (I can recall one non-western book from high school, unless he thinks books by slaves, Anne Frank, muckrakers, etc etc don't count as "Western" like Nietzche and Wordsworth).

He thinks that this line "Western civilization slipped from a lineage of reason and talent, free inquiry and unsuppressed creativity, into “Eurocentrism,” one group’s advance at the expense of others, women and people of color." is historically accurate.

He acknowledges that people have pain from experiences that Trump antagonizes but only as a vehicle for Trumpist feelings that were hurt during the Obama years.

The crevasse between reality and Trumpism is widening. Increasingly, I'm unsure if effort should be spent on bringing them back to reality or widening the gap (which any amount of resistance to their alt-reality does) such that even the crazification factor finds itself partially split.
posted by Slackermagee at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

It's really really impressive to see the internet spring into action when Net Neutrality is threatened, calls to contact your representatives and donate to the EFF exploded all over Reddit and social media SO FAST... and I don't want to downplay the importance of Net Neutrality because it's a huge deal but whyyyy can't the internet do stuff like this for like anything else that's important? I mean even EA doing shitty but predictable EA things to a video game has gotten the kind of response from the internet that things like, oh, voting rights for one, could desperately use.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:18 AM on November 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

The filibuster was always a miserable piece of anti-democratic crap that was only ever used successfully for vile regressive purposes. It has always and only ever truly existed for the forces of evil, us good guys never do seem to actually get to use it despite the Democrats loudly proclaiming that the filibuster is totally essential for times when they're a majority.

Note that despite the Republicans having a bare majority, like magic, somehow the Democrats can't filibuster jack fucking shit. Somehow the ACA repeal was immune to filibusters. Somehow the Republican tax increase bill is immune to filibusters. Somehow, like magic, every single thing the Republicans want takes only 51 votes, but every single thing the Democrats want takes 60 votes.

Nuke the filibuster. It is a tool only for the enemy, we never do seem to get to use it ourselves. If we could filibuster them like they filibuster us then maybe it'd be worth keeping. But since they get to use it all the time and we never get to use it then it needs to go.

And I'm 100% with leotrotsky. They're packing the courts with an illegitimate, criminal, traitor president? Great, we pack the **SHIT** out of the courts then pass a law to keep the courts from being packed again. I also like a mandatory retirement age for judges.
posted by sotonohito at 7:19 AM on November 22, 2017 [35 favorites]

Nuke the filibuster.

I guess the problem here is that while traditionally the filibuster has been used to keep existing bad policies in place, the reason was that the force for change in American politics was classically progressive, while the regressive wing was in favor of the status-quo (i.e., slavery, apartheid, and unregulated markets). But since FDR & even more since LBJ, those in favor of change have been radical right regressives who want to blow up the status quo. Although they're trying their hardest to do so through reconciliation, which can't be filibustered, if we didn't have the filibuster and had a slightly more competent right-wing president, the right would overturn the whole damn world in a hot minute and we'd be in Handmaid's Tale territory before 2019.
posted by dis_integration at 7:26 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

If I'm not wrong, a mandatory retirement age for federal judges would require a constitutional amendment ("The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour," - Article III). So... good idea, but probably not happening. Packing seems like the only avenue of redress, but seems like the start -- or escalation, I guess -- of an arms race.
posted by Turd Ferguson at 7:32 AM on November 22, 2017

Politico Trumpist-at-Thanksgiving article:
Western civilization was dropped as a school subject before they were born

Hi, I have a Masters in Teaching social studies grade 6-12. I assure you, person who says he is a teacher, Western civilization is still a school subject. It's just now not the only thing taught. So you can fuck right off, good sir. Enjoy your mashed potatoes.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:41 AM on November 22, 2017 [61 favorites]

Turd Ferguson Packing seems like the only avenue of redress, but seems like the start -- or escalation, I guess -- of an arms race.

Not at all, it is merely fighting back instead of passively accepting the cheating of the Republicans.

Why did Trump get to seat Gorsuch?

Because the Republicans in Congress did a completely unprecedented thing and refused to even consider Obama's appointments, basically voiding his final year as president in order to pack the courts their way.

Why is Trump set to appoint so many utterly incompetent right wing fanatics to the courts?

Because the Republicans in Congress did a completely unprecedented thing and held open judicial positions for close to a decade specifically so that the next Republican president would have a lot of slots to fill.

We did not start this. Fighting back will be ugly and the Republicans will play victim and scream and shout about how horrible and awful we are. But if we don't fight back, if we don't retaliate against their blatant packing of the courts, we might as well just give up and resign ourselves to an eternity of Republican misrule.

Fighting is ugly. Fighting back is ugly. But it is better than the alternative.

dis_integration Although they're trying their hardest to do so through reconciliation, which can't be filibustered, if we didn't have the filibuster and had a slightly more competent right-wing president, the right would overturn the whole damn world in a hot minute and we'd be in Handmaid's Tale territory before 2019.

Can you please point to the horrible Handmaid laws that the Democrats have successfully filibustered? I don't seem to recall any, but perhaps I haven't been paying attention in the right way. You'd think, if the Democrats were saving us via the filibuster they'd be bragging more about it though.

I do know that the Democrats haven't filibustered any of Trump's horrible appointments, while the Republicans seemed to do a damn fine job of shutting down Obama's appointments to the degree that by his third year in office he still didn't have a full staff in the executive offices. How did they do so well while we do so poorly?

If "reconciliation" can get stuff past the filibuster, why did we have to get traitor Joe Lieberman on board with the ACA and get 60 votes?

I'm sure there are reasons for this, but the outcome is always the same: they get to filibuster and shut down absolutely anything we try when we have a majority, but when we have a majority suddenly there's all these procedures and tricks and loopholes that make it impossible for us to shut them down.

Apparently Trump can simply stop the subsidies the ACA mandates on a whim, yet Obama needed 60 votes in the Senate to get anything done.

Do you see why I say nuke the filibuster?

It doesn't work for us.

Sure, sure, all the words about loopholes and reconciliation and whatever. But the outcome is always the same: it works for them, it doesn't work for us. Why would we want to keep it around if we can't use it?
posted by sotonohito at 7:47 AM on November 22, 2017 [55 favorites]

soren_lorensen Politico Trumpist-at-Thanksgiving article:
Western civilization was dropped as a school subject before they were born

I'm with you. I've got a teaching certificate, valid to teach all core subjects in Texas for grades 4 through 8, and I know damn well that western civilization is a thing that we teach here.

From the TEKS (Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills) requirements, 113.42:

World History Studies is a survey of the history of humankind. Due to the expanse of world history and the time limitations of the school year, the scope of this course should focus on "essential" concepts and skills that can be applied to various eras, events, and people within the standards in subsection (c) of this section. The major emphasis is on the study of significant people, events, and issues from the earliest times to the present. Traditional historical points of reference in world history are identified as students analyze important events and issues in western civilization as well as in civilizations in other parts of the world. Students evaluate the causes and effects of political and economic imperialism and of major political revolutions since the 17th century. Students examine the impact of geographic factors on major historic events and identify the historic origins of contemporary economic systems. Students analyze the process by which constitutional governments evolved as well as the ideas from historic documents that influenced that process. Students trace the historical development of important legal and political concepts. Students examine the history and impact of major religious and philosophical traditions. Students analyze the connections between major developments in science and technology and the growth of industrial economies, and they use the process of historical inquiry to research, interpret, and use multiple sources of evidence.

Emphasis mine.

I also note that the asshole in the linked article managed to see the Republican President's speech in Warsaw as a sort of neutral, in a vacuum, praising of "Western Civilization" rather than a barely veiled racist call to arms that was welcomed by white supremacists worldwide.

Plus of course the entire false victim complex the asshole espoused. It's hardly as if dead white guys are reviled or the big names in Western Civ are spat on and ignored. They just aren't the only people mentioned.

He seems to live in a parallel universe where all white people everywhere are hated and their names have been scoured from the history books until, like the breaking of dawn against the vile hordes of cultural relativist orcs, Trump arrived to single handedly save Western Civilization by mentioning it in Warsaw.
posted by sotonohito at 7:57 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

OH MY GOD HE'S AN ENGLISH PROFESSOR
Christ, what an asshole. I thought for sure he'd be a Math prof or something, ignorant of what is actually taught in humanities classes. But no, he's English faculty which is its own special kind of justification. He's probably surrounded by a bunch of high octane critical theorists and postmodernists in his department and there's probably a fair amount of high ridiculousness because that's what university English departments do. Like a lot of academics, he doesn't realize that he breathes extremely rarefied air and that all of life is not even remotely like his department meetings and that the liberals he's having Thanksgiving with don't give a shit about Freire and Foucault or probably even Chomsky. (I mean, I'm pretty far left and when I was an English major I thought postmodernism was fucking bonkers, but grokking Derrida isn't really necessary for believing that black men shouldn't be summarily executed by police officers.) His reaction to the annoying colleague who is constantly complaining about all the Pale Males she's required to teach is to blow up our Republic. Well done, sir.
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:57 AM on November 22, 2017 [28 favorites]

Do you see why I say nuke the filibuster?

It doesn't work for us.

From 1957 to 2017:
* Democrats had a majority in the Senate for 62 years and Republicans had a majority in the Senate for 22 years.
* Democrats had a majority in the House of Representatives for 62 years and Republicans had a majority in the House for 22 years.
* Democrats controlled both the Senate and House for 56 years. (Here's a chart.)

Removing a rule when it inconveniences you and sticking to it when it benefits you is unethical and an abuse of power. Either it's a bad rule that should be removed on its own merits or it's a good one that should stay in place.

But arguing that it's not helping us now so we should eliminate it is not a good argument.
posted by zarq at 7:58 AM on November 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

I really think we need to look at South Africa as a model for our future, specifically the Truth and Reconciliation process. We are going to have to break the back of a racist, corrupt system that 30% of the population loves and is in complete denial about. Like the Nixon administration, almost everyone appointed by Trump are the dregs of racist feudalism and will be causing trouble for the next 40 years (e.g. Roger Stone).
posted by benzenedream at 7:59 AM on November 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

Removing a rule when it inconveniences you and sticking to it when it benefits you is unethical and an abuse of power. Either it's a bad rule that should be removed on its own merits or it's a good one that should stay in place.

But arguing that it's not helping us now so we should eliminate it is not a good argument.

It's not unethical and an abuse of power when national sovereignty, the social fabric, and human life itself are in the balance. Which they are. "We have to be hypocritical in this specific case in order to survive" is a good argument.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:04 AM on November 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

I feel like Mr. English Prof hopes the reader misremembers having attended a high school class literally entitled "Western Civilization", so they can be all angrypants at the PC culture that "dropped" it from the curriculum.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 8:05 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

But arguing that it's not helping us now so we should eliminate it is not a good argument.

I think that the way that it was used by Southern Democrats to block civil-rights bills combined with how it has messed with us now would be enough to justify tanking it, though. It has mostly been the last refuge of scoundrels.

I feel like Mr. English Prof hopes

He is probably huffy because they made him teach Chinua Achebe AND Dickens or something.
posted by bootlegpop at 8:05 AM on November 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yeah, I don't think Trump is really the embodiment or defender of western values. With his ostentatious, narcissistic, bully mentality he's more akin to Xerxes than Plato. It's just more pablum the right likes to wrap themselves in to feel intellectually superior to all the "ingrates" who look at them with confused and horrified expressions. He's what the Greeks were trying to warn us about.
posted by lumnar at 8:09 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

zarq Removing a rule when it inconveniences you and sticking to it when it benefits you is unethical and an abuse of power. Either it's a bad rule that should be removed on its own merits or it's a good one that should stay in place.

Personally I think it's a bad rule.

More important though, a rule that is misapplied, or abused so that only one side gets to use it, is a bad rule in practice even if it's a good rule in theory. The application of rules matters as much as their official, formal, aspect.

Even if the theory behind the filibuster was 100% perfect, the fact that in practice only the Republicans get to use it while when the Democrats want to stop something the Republicans want then somehow the filibuster doesn't apply, makes the filibuster a bad rule.
posted by sotonohito at 8:17 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

The millennials at the table will go blank (Western civilization was dropped as a school subject before they were born).

That's right. Millennials have no idea what "Western civilization" means. That's the only possible explanation for the careful lack of expression they assume when Uncle Mark starts up about Warsaw again.
posted by Iridic at 8:17 AM on November 22, 2017 [30 favorites]

It's not unethical and an abuse of power when national sovereignty, the social fabric, and human life itself are in the balance. Which they are. "We have to be hypocritical in this specific case in order to survive" is a good argument.

It's a perilous one. Throwing out democratic principles in an effort to save a democracy from itself is a dangerous strategy. It sets a precedent in which any legislative action can conceivably be justified through fearmongering and manufactured crises.
posted by zarq at 8:22 AM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

feel intellectually superior to all the "ingrates" who look at them with confused and horrified expressions

Last night, I was going through the stuff I brought back from China when I studied abroad there 20 years ago, in preparation for actually storing it so it will last for another 20 years. I have a copy of an old English-language propaganda magazine from 1969 (height of the Cultural Revolution). It's got a lot of really A+ choice Maoist propaganda ("The Afro-Americans are Fighting!" is a house favorite), but flipping through it last night the article that caught my eye was headlined "The Lowly are Most Intelligent! The Elite are Most Ignorant!" (This is a saying by Mao) And I had the thought... I bet I could slightly rewrite this article, post it on Twitter with a #MAGA tag, and let 2017 work its magic. Trumpers would never realize it's Maoist propaganda.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:23 AM on November 22, 2017 [56 favorites]

It's a perilous one. Throwing out democratic principles in an effort to save a democracy from itself is a dangerous strategy. It sets a precedent in which any legislative action can conceivably be justified through fearmongering and manufactured crises.

The filibuster is not a democratic principle! It's a procedural trick and inherently undemocratic. It's not part of the US Constitution, was only theoretically possible with a change of Senate rules in 1806, and was never used until 1837. Even then it was rarely used for much of the Senate's first two centuries, only becoming common to repeatedly block civil rights legislation.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:26 AM on November 22, 2017 [49 favorites]

It sets a precedent in which any legislative action can conceivably be justified through fearmongering and manufactured crises.

How can one set a precedent for a 400 year status quo?
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:26 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

the liberals he's having Thanksgiving with don't give a shit about Freire and Foucault or probably even Chomsky.

I'm a liberal white guy English major in academia and I mostly don't give too much of shit about Freire or Foucault and really especially not Chomsky. (Tho an old friend has always really been into Freire. He's an interesting guy; I'll give him that.)

I met Bauerlein once some years ago and I recall him being mostly charming. He's an atheist-turned-Catholic and I suspect that's part of his shtick. Catholic converts always think they're GK Chesterton. However, the worst sentence in that piece is "When Donald Trump stood in that square in Warsaw and unapologetically hailed Western civilization, I felt a 30-year discouragement lift ever so slightly" because Donnie couldn't tell Western Civ from Shinola and Bauerlein's smart enough to know that.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:30 AM on November 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

Mod note: Folks, in the name of less thread chitchat, let's maybe call it good on the western civilization/"this one jerk academic said" thing.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:34 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

T.D. Strange's post upthread is good to keep in mind when talking about the filibuster:

Geographic representation will kill American Democracy. The Senate is geographic gerrymandering built into the structure of the Constitution. By 2040, about 70% of Americans are expected to live in the 15 largest states, and will have 30 senators representing them. The remaining 30% of Americans will have 70 senators representing them.

It may become completely irrelevant in our lifetimes anyways. It's not a solution to anything long term.
posted by jason_steakums at 8:39 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Guardian: Trump's judicial picks: 'The goal is to end the progressive state'

[...] “The president himself has said that he expects this to be one of his major legacies. He is going to reshape the bench for generations to come,” said Douglas Keith, counsel with the fair courts arm of the Brennan Center for Justice.

“I do think this deserves more attention given the consequence, the significance of what will eventually be a wholesale change among the federal judiciary,” he continued.

I was already so tired, and woke up to this, and now I just want to go back to bed. Wake me up when everything is not terrible and hopeless anymore please.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 8:42 AM on November 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

Fire with fire.


Oooo noooo I'm a weak middle-of-the-road liberal who can't bear to govern without the tacit un-opposition of the "traditional" "conservatives". Chuck fucking Todd doesn't think it's goooood. Let's just divide everything 50-50 and look forward instead of back.

WHERE'S THE WAR CRIMES CHARGES AGAINST BUSH, CHENEY, RUMSFELD, AND RICE?! WHERE'S our fucking trillions of dollars??

If Trump changed everything regarding American politics it had damned well better the Democrats' focus on uprooting fucking evil shit. You feelin' it DiFi?! Yet?! godDAMN.
posted by petebest at 8:46 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

The filibuster is not a democratic principle! It's a procedural trick and inherently undemocratic.

It is. It's a way for those in the minority to inhibit legislation that only benefits the majority. In theory, it should increase representation in legislation by allowing those who are not in power to influence those who are.

In practice it has often worked that way: the filibuster is most often used as a threat, not an act. Leverage to encourage legislative efforts to be cooperative and bipartisan. The current Republican Congress is so afraid of the filibuster and public debate on their proposed legislation that they are using whatever loopholes they can to avoid it. They are literally trying to pass laws secretly, in the dead of night.

In practice it has also worked against fair representation and been used as a tool to disenfranchise populations.

If a rule is used to good effect and bad effect, then the appropriate and ethical thing to do would be to look at whether it gives net benefit or not and why. Saying that it's bad simply because one side is using it against our side is terrible reasoning. Which is what I was responding to upthread.

It's not part of the US Constitution was only theoretically possible with a change of Senate rules in 1806, and was never used until 1837.

This isn't a particularly compelling argument. Many excellent amendments, laws and rules have been put in place since the 1800's.

Even then it was rarely used for much of the Senate's first two centuries, only becoming common to repeatedly block civil rights legislation.

Yes, thank you for proving my point. Argue whether it deserves to exist on its merits, not whether it happens to benefit us now.
posted by zarq at 8:46 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Throwing out democratic principles in an effort to save a democracy from itself is a dangerous strategy.

Dems have been doing that for years though, especially popular, charismatic ones like Bill Clinton--he sold out universal public education as an ideal, the general welfare as an ideal, due process and equality under the law for certain classes of drug offenders, etc., etc. It's not so much just the fact that Dems have compromised with Republicans that's the problem, but the fact they bargained away the fundamental axioms of liberal democracy and the public good for short term electoral gains, and then when in power, didn't reinforce or advance them.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:54 AM on November 22, 2017 [19 favorites]

It's not so much just the fact that Dems have compromised with Republicans that's the problem, but the fact they bargained away the fundamental axioms of liberal democracy and the public good for short term electoral gains

Reduce this down to "the political classes (all of them) bargained away everything for short term electoral gains", and one has an explanation for the last fifty years of American politics.
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:03 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

I hope we're not forgetting Wendy Davis, who fillibustered in Texas to prevent shit abortion laws from happening. (IIRC, she asked for a back brace among other things.)
posted by Melismata at 9:05 AM on November 22, 2017 [39 favorites]

Thank god I'm not the only one who remembers 'The Third Way' bullshit. Still though, Bill Clinton did give me a good joke for the recent fuckery surrounding taxing tuition waivers:

"Republicans want graduate degrees like the Clinton administration wanted abortion: Safe, and Legal, but Rare'
posted by eclectist at 9:07 AM on November 22, 2017 [17 favorites]

Oooo noooo I'm a weak middle-of-the-road liberal who can't bear to govern without the tacit un-opposition of the "traditional" "conservatives". Chuck fucking Todd doesn't think it's goooood. Let's just divide everything 50-50 and look forward instead of back.

Come on. I'm a progressive to liberal and even I know that history has shown that left wing without a healthy opposition is just as dangerous as right wing without a healthy opposition.

Sane and principled conservatives have their use. They maintain a healthy amount of skepticism with our grandiose dreams of luxury space communism.

Dems have been doing that for years though, especially popular, charismatic ones like Bill Clinton--he sold out universal public education as an ideal, the general welfare as an ideal, due process and equality under the law for certain classes of drug offenders, etc., etc. It's not so much just the fact that Dems have compromised with Republicans that's the problem, but the fact they bargained away the fundamental axioms of liberal democracy and the public good for short term electoral gains, and then when in power, didn't reinforce or advance them.

Because we totally elected a fanatical progressive nerd with a clue. Oh wait, he got smashed 525-13 in the EC. I mean it's one thing for you to sell out when people want liberal and progressive values but the American people for three elections told us they didn't want more Carter. It wasn't a short term electoral gains, it was coming out of the god damned woods while Republicans destroyed what was left of organized labor and wage growth.
posted by Talez at 9:12 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

It's what the Dems sold out. Content matters just as much as form. Not all compromises are created equal and we compromised even in cases where the historical arguments had seemingly been resolved and there was enough consensus and popular support for the ideals they didn't have to be abandoned so easily.
posted by saulgoodman at 9:17 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

sotonohito: "Can you please point to the horrible Handmaid laws that the Democrats have successfully filibustered? I don't seem to recall any, but perhaps I haven't been paying attention in the right way. You'd think, if the Democrats were saving us via the filibuster they'd be bragging more about it though."

Mitch McConnell doesn't bring bills to the floor that he doesn't think he can win - you will recall his extreme surprise at losing ACA repeal on a floor vote. Something that would be filibustered never comes to the light of day.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:28 AM on November 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

Sane and principled conservatives have their use.

Ach. There's yer problem.
posted by petebest at 9:38 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

Somehow the ACA repeal was immune to filibusters. Somehow the Republican tax increase bill is immune to filibusters

It's not, like, witchcraft... we've discussed in depth reasons why certain provisions are or are not subject to filibuster or passage by reconciliation.
posted by Justinian at 10:08 AM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's a little bit like witchcraft. Like, 1/17th of a cow going dry or 1/95th of dancing naked in the woods. There is a specification, you know: MIL-D-35076.
posted by BeeDo at 10:12 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Wait, that's donuts.

(Actually, so many of those old specs are only online from bad scans of copies of copies, so the OCR has a good chance of turning "switches" into "witches". There are thus several government specifications on the proper use of witches.)
posted by BeeDo at 10:21 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

T.D. Strange's post upthread is good to keep in mind when talking about the filibuster:
Geographic representation will kill American Democracy. The Senate is geographic gerrymandering built into the structure of the Constitution. By 2040, about 70% of Americans are expected to live in the 15 largest states, and will have 30 senators representing them. The remaining 30% of Americans will have 70 senators representing them.

It may become completely irrelevant in our lifetimes anyways. It's not a solution to anything long term.

Wow, that's insane. The US Government is sitting on top of a massive legitimacy crisis in the near future. The House can be sorted out by decent gerrymandering laws ...but the Presidency and the Senate? The electoral/popular vote disconnect we saw this year is going to become completely ridiculous.

What worse is that the folks who benefit from it will have no interest in resolving it. And the only way to resolve it is via constitutional amendment, which is practically impossible. The only leverage I can imagine populous states exercising is either withholding tax dollars or threatening independence, both of which have (to put it mildly) significant problems to them. That's going to be one hell of a mess.
posted by leotrotsky at 10:26 AM on November 22, 2017 [20 favorites]

When I read an explanation of the various House and Senate procedures, each little rule or step always usually often sometimes makes sense on it's own but the system is a whole is so complex and convoluted it may as well be witchcraft.

Some of that is unavoidable, some of it isn't. McConnell uses the complexity of the system to obfusticate what is actually happening so that he can create a narrative where everything is always the Dem's fault.

Simplify the system enough so that one doesn't need to be a Senate/House procedure expert just to figure out what's going on and what is supposed to happen next and then explanations from experts will start to make more sense to the average person and they'll understand a bit more about who is doing what and why they're a jerk for doing it.
posted by VTX at 10:27 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

The US Government is sitting on top of a massive legitimacy crisis in the near future for the Presidency and the Senate.

I've been screaming about this since the election day 2016 thread. We're in a race between demographic shifts and a legitimacy crisis which fractures the country. Not that the demographic shifts erase the structural problems, but it's less likely to result in a schism if those problems aren't letting a minority elect the President and dominate the Senate over and over again.

Note that the Senate is a problem but since the smallest 10 states are 5D/5R and the largest 10 are 4D/3R/3swing it's not as simple as "small states are Republican!". Though the continued demographic sorting of progressives to coastal states may result in that becoming more and more true.
posted by Justinian at 10:35 AM on November 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

Here is my comment from Nov 10 2016 in which a crazed and distraught Justinian compares the US government to South African Apartheid.
posted by Justinian at 10:38 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

And the only way to resolve it is via constitutional amendment, which is practically impossible.

Which is why the U.S. was able to gain it's independence after petitioning their government in England for it.

I mean, revolution has to be the subtext here. It terrifies me to discuss it as a solution but I do think there is value in talking about it as the assumed solution. As in, "We're going to need to figure out what to do about or there will be a violent revolution and no reasonable person wants that."
posted by VTX at 10:39 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

You guys need to colonize the red states. I'm not even joking. Some years ago when there was a huge public debate about the depressed areas here in Denmark which were going all yellow (radical racist right), some friends and I began to suggest that those dilapidated areas could well be the new "inner cities". As young people, artists and entrepreneurs get priced out of the cities, the outskirts will become attractive. And it has begun to happen, faster than we thought. The election landslide I mentioned above is clearly indicative of it.
Personally, I'm doing half and half because of my daughters and still voting in the city. But just within the last five years I can see that a community is building in the area of my other home which is definitely making it more attractive for someone like me. And it is one of the districts that has gone overwhelmingly red this year. (Red is for socialism, goddamit, haven't you seen the red flags in those old movies?)
posted by mumimor at 10:41 AM on November 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Hmmm. Seems KellyAnne Conway violated the Hatch act (for the second time) by promoting Roy Moore in front of the White House. Walter Shaub (former director of White House office of Ethics) is filing a complaint with the U.S. Office of Special Counsel.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:42 AM on November 22, 2017 [36 favorites]

2018 Primary Alert: Sherry Campagna (@sherryforhawaii) has announced that she plans to primary Tulsi Gabbard next year for Hawaii CD-2. She has the support of Shay Chan Hodges, who ran against Gabbard in the primary in 2016. There's a blurb on her Act Blue page:

Sherry is an environmental scientist, small business owner, and mom. She has been an agent for social change her entire adult life, initially as an advocate for racial equality as a Native Hawaiian during her college years then later widening her scope to include women’s rights and class disparities. She is a commissioner with the Hawaii Commission on the Status of Women and the former Hawaii State Chair for the Women's March on Washington.

And a bit more about her in this article: "Campagna hopes to dedicate herself to the continued service of CD2 through economic justice, job creation, prison reform, environmental stewardship, healthcare and equal rights." (Note: many incarcerated people in Hawaii are sent to mainland private prisons, cutting them off from support networks and established counsel.)

If elected, she'll be the first Native Hawaiian woman in Congress.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:44 AM on November 22, 2017 [49 favorites]

Sherry Campana (@sherryforhawaii) has announced that she plans to primary Tulsi Gabbard next year for Hawaii CD-2.

What's her position on Syria?
posted by leotrotsky at 10:46 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

In parallel with this 70%/15 states/30 senators discussion, here's something else that the Republicans are doing to lock in their advantages. You have to admire the sheer level of dedication, the galling shamelessness, that the Republicans have brought to their array of voter suppression efforts.

Kevin Drum, Mother Jones: Thousands of Blacks Are Denied Voting Rights Because They’re Poor

Wait, how can that be? There's an explicit prohibition on poll taxes, so ...?

In nine states, Republican legislators have enacted laws that disenfranchise anyone with outstanding legal fees or court fines. For example, in Alabama more than 100,000 people who owe money — roughly 3 percent of the state’s voting-age population — have been struck from voting rolls. ... Many laws that have a disparate impact on the poor also are likely to have a disparate racial impact because of the strong link between race and wealth in America.

You'd think this would be unconstitutional. But does Justice Gorsuch think it is unconstitutional?

And could *you* come up with $5000 just to get your voting rights restored? Or would you have more pressing needs to worry about?
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:49 AM on November 22, 2017 [70 favorites]

You guys need to colonize the red states.

That's a nice thought but not a realistic solution. One, because our democracy is only barely representative anymore - gerrymandering has destroyed that, more or less. And two, the U.S. is 228 times larger than Denmark but only 56 times more people.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:51 AM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

I think there's a vicious cycle which prevents many people from colonizing the red states with blue voters - the blue states/counties are, on the whole, more prosperous:

Our observation: The less-than-500 counties that Hillary Clinton carried nationwide encompassed a massive 64 percent of America’s economic activity as measured by total output in 2015. By contrast, the more-than-2,600 counties that Donald Trump won generated just 36 percent of the country’s output—just a little more than one-third of the nation’s economic activity. (Mark Muro and Sifan Liu, Brookings)

Lack of economic opportunity and discrimination against women, LGBT people, and, in majority-white areas, POC, mean that people who can leave, often do. There are those who are committed to family or place who stay no matter what, but people flee to cities and blue states for a reason. It's a lot to ask of people to deal with a salary cut (at best) or chronic underemployment (at worst), xenophobia, bigotry, etc. And this means that the brain drain leaves the left-behind areas even more clannishly red and unwelcoming to anyone who is or feels different. (Not to mention jobless, opioid-ridden, and dysfunctional.)

Not All Red States and Not All Rural Areas/Small Towns, obviously. There are good people everywhere. But people move out to places like Seattle or Austin not just because "haha, eat my dust, suckers!" but because they do not feel welcome in their places of origin.

As Justinian and Leotrotsky have pointed out, this "big sort" is not good for our democracy. Compounded by the fact that many of the blue-staters left behind are precisely the people - well-educated, if not affluent then at least upper-middle-class in mentality - who are used to having things go their way in their day-to-day lives. Among white people, this, I think, has led to complacency in the past - "however bad things get Out There, I'm safe and sound in a blue state, so bad things won't happen to me and my loved ones." But Trump's election has been a giant wake-up call, at least how I see it.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:56 AM on November 22, 2017 [36 favorites]

And could *you* come up with $5000 just to get your voting rights restored? Or would you have more pressing needs to worry about?

If only there were wealthy ostensibly liberal people who could pay off these folks' outstanding fines. But, nope, gotta fund an impeachment billboard in Times Square.

Does anyone know if there's an organization that is raising funds for this purpose? I know the better option for society is to have these restrictions declared unconstitutional, but what can we do in the meantime?
posted by melissasaurus at 11:02 AM on November 22, 2017 [28 favorites]

Fuck hoping some wealthy liberal will save the disenfranchised, how about it shouldn't cost $5000 dollars to have the rights of a citizen!
posted by cmfletcher at 11:05 AM on November 22, 2017 [45 favorites]

Every comparison of small/tiny European countries with the US needs to be on the state level. You can't compare Denmark with the entire US, but you can compare it with a state. And most states have large blue populations in the cities.

The development here is really, really new. Just a few years ago it would have been hard to be gay, or an artist or just leftist in our rural areas. But as I experience it, the extreme decline of the "outskirts" has led to a lot of locals rethinking their views. First they were angry and yes, voted for the radical right. But I think what has happened the last few years is that people have tired of the obvious hypocrisy, corruption and blatant lying of the rightists and also they have recognized that the new residents are bringing jobs and life to their areas and that no one has been hurt by them.
posted by mumimor at 11:09 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Fuck hoping some wealthy liberal will save the disenfranchised, how about it shouldn't cost $5000 dollars to have the rights of a citizen!

Well sure, but it doesn't detract from melissasaurus's point, and so long as we're forced to live under a rigged, crooked system, I'd be interested in supporting an organization that raised funds for just this cause.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:12 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Fuck hoping some wealthy liberal will save the disenfranchised, how about it shouldn't cost $5000 dollars to have the rights of a citizen!

We could if we had another 3% of the voters in some areas. Voting rights are kind of a chicken/egg problem. The votes are there to make sure that everyone can vote if only everyone could vote.
posted by VTX at 11:14 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

I mean, I know that there's already so much to hate Trump for, but can I add that I'm angry that I now also have to hate him for making me root for LaVar and the rest of the Ball family?
posted by TwoStride at 11:17 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

A full colonization of red states is impractical, but there's something intriguing about the idea of putting resources and personnel and a long commitment - years! - to have DSA field offices in overlooked and hurting red districts to do outreach and messaging and really work to create change in low level races that then feed candidates into statewide offices and beyond. Set up shop and start with stuff like the free flu shots and brake lights programs they've been doing (tailored to the actual needs of those communities) and work from there, to spread new political ideas that the Republicans won't give them and the Democratic party infrastructure can't/won't really be able to promote in those ways (and the voters there wouldn't trust coming from traditional Dems anyways). Like mission trips for socialism. Change the culture. That's the least painful long term solution, it's a long slog but worth the time and effort.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:17 AM on November 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

I don't remember who was asking about an anniversary Womens March, but I got an email this week from our local organizers that they are planning an anniversary event. Our meeting is Dec 1. I don't know if the event is another march (I sure as hell hope so) or what.

You may want to reach out to your local womens march organizers to take their pulse. I'm not seeing anything on the local or national websites about the planning meetings.
posted by yoga at 11:19 AM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

And could *you* come up with $5000 just to get your voting rights restored? Or would you have more pressing needs to worry about?

Hey, according to Paul Ryan a typical lower-middle-class voter will save 700 whole dollars per year in taxes, so they cam save for the future!

(Of course, that money will be swallowed and then some by the draconian service cuts Ryan is salivating to put in place.)
posted by Gelatin at 11:20 AM on November 22, 2017

The Danish Social Democrats have been doing a "fifty states strategy" this year, except if you compare the scales it would probably be more like a "every single little tiny municipality strategy". It worked already.
posted by mumimor at 11:21 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Current NYT headline: "Is It Logical to Fight AT&T Merger, but Kill Net Neutrality?" Hahahahhahahahahahohohohee the NYT still thinks the government has logic hahahhaha*sob*
posted by Melismata at 11:24 AM on November 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Also now is the time for that kind of socialist outreach in red states, the iron is red hot for someone to strike with "a pox on both their houses!" style socialist messaging in these communities. The Republican party is failing to produce helpful policy and they won't trust Dems, give them an out.

Also also, changing the terrain of the battle by changing the culture is maybe the biggest strength of progressives and it needs to be wielded like a weapon. The Democratic party has been waiting for the culture to shift to give them an opening, but the Republicans have long known that you need to create those shifts, we need to be doing that too.
posted by jason_steakums at 11:27 AM on November 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

I think there's a vicious cycle which prevents many people from colonizing the red states with blue voters - the blue states/counties are, on the whole, more prosperous

Which is a point Democrats and their surrogates should make in every single media appearance. Republicans relentlessly bash "tax and spend," "job killing regulations," and other hobbyhorses, but Democratic states have those things and prosper, when Kansas tried it the Republican way and it was a disaster. Yet again.
posted by Gelatin at 11:28 AM on November 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

WaPo's Phllip Bump documents one more datapoint in the overall pattern of sloth, Trump’s team insists he has a ‘full schedule’ an hour before he goes golfing.

Also, via here, in a University of Chicago survey of 42 top economists, only one believes that the proposed tax bills will lead to substantially higher GDP a decade from now and all of them believe the proposed tax changes will lead to a substantially higher debt-to-GDP ratio a decade from now.
posted by peeedro at 11:33 AM on November 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

Justinian It's not, like, witchcraft... we've discussed in depth reasons why certain provisions are or are not subject to filibuster or passage by reconciliation.

No but it is, like, entirely predictable.

Everything the Republicans want, somehow, turns out to fall through a loophole where, like magic, the Democrats can't use the filibuster to stop it.

Yet everything the Democrats want, somehow, turns out to be totally ineligible for those Republican only loopholes that keep us from using the filibuster when we're in the minority.

It doesn't really matter much if it's legitimate procedural weirdness, or witchcraft, or just the Democrats being utterly spineless, or whatever. The outcome is that the filibuster is a tool only available to the Republicans and denied entirely to the Democrats.

Given that outcome, and ignoring the attractive option of hairsplitting in the weeds of Roberts Rules and Senate procedure (no sarcasm, I'm the sort of person who really digs that sort of thing), I think the sensible and reasonable option is simply killing the filibuster.

Its ostensible purpose is not being filled, far from generically putting roadblocks in the way of sweeping change and mandating a degree of bipartisanship it is proving to work very well for preventing progress, and totally ineffective at preventing regress.

Approving the ACA took 60 votes, yet somehow (and, again, it really doesn't matter how) repealing it only took 50.

Given that reality we must end the filibuster.

leotrotsky I'd argue that the US government is already in the midst of a massive legitimacy crisis. We've got a House of Representatives where the majority party got a minority of the votes, President who "won" despite winning a minority of the votes, and the Senate is already at the point where 50% of Senators represent around 30% of the population.

The only thing holding the country together at this point is the hope of a sweeping Democratic victory in 2018 and sheer inertia.

The Federal government, all three branches, is now illegitimate and the people who seized power are exploiting their victory to further their dominance of the House and Judiciary.

A Democratic victory in 2018 and 2020 that doesn't include expanding the Supreme Court and the Federal courts to (effectively) nullify the illegitimate appointments of Trump will be a hollow victory at best, and likely the very last thing the Democrats ever manage to accomplish.

The simple fact is that there people living in the vast, unpopulated, chunks of America who have an unjustly, unfairly, and improperly, outsized political power. Either their wrongly given power will be taken away from them, or the country will fragment. There is no third option.

It won't happen soon, it won't happen in 50 years, but it will happen eventually. The majority will not tolerate being dictated to by a hateful minority forever.
posted by sotonohito at 11:38 AM on November 22, 2017 [27 favorites]

There is no way I'm moving to rural Missouri. I'm not even willing to move west of 170.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:38 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Kevin Drum, Mother Jones: Thousands of Blacks Are Denied Voting Rights Because They’re Poor

Damnit. I really hoped I'd make it thorough the holiday without being driven to incoherent rage. Fuck 2017.

You know, while working the polls, me and the GOP guy at the table were sort of amazed at how there were UNDER 60 PEOPLE registered in our district, and we should both just get in the car and bring them to vote, and really that's a HOUSE PARTY, if he and I want to invite everyone.

I'm going to give him a call right now.
posted by mikelieman at 11:39 AM on November 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

Alexandra Petri (@petridishes):
gary cohn: crinkle crinkle hissing sound weird echo
trump: did you just say the words 'crinkle crinkle hissing sound'
cohn: oh no dropped call
posted by christopherious at 11:40 AM on November 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

Approving the ACA took 60 votes, yet somehow (and, again, it really doesn't matter how) repealing it only took 50.

This is just not true. Some of the ACA took 60 votes to approve and some took 50 votes and was done with reconciliation. Similarly, some of repealing Obamacare would take 60 votes and some can be done with 50 votes via reconciliation. It's just that knocking out parts of a structure tends to undermine the whole thing even the parts you haven't removed.
posted by Justinian at 11:41 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Approving the ACA took 60 votes, yet somehow (and, again, it really doesn't matter how) repealing it only took 50.

I mean, I think I agree with your larger point, but the "it really doesn't matter how" is doing a lot of dismissive work in this statement. Legislative procedure is complicated, but it's not rocket science. It's not "magic" for why ACA needed 60 and the repeal vote only need 50.

I'm generally skeptical of the argument that progressive things don't get done simply due to lack of will.
posted by Think_Long at 11:43 AM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Justinian Right. Like I said, the **RESULT** is that Democrats don't get to effectively filibuster, but Republicans do. The details are a distraction, the outcome is the critical part here.

They get to filibuster effectively. We do not get to filibuster effectively.

That means the filibuster is rigged against us in practice no matter how it looks on paper.
posted by sotonohito at 11:43 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Additionally, part of why a bunch of Obamacare wasn't passed with reconciliation was because the Democrats had 60 votes so they just passed it with 60.
posted by Justinian at 11:44 AM on November 22, 2017

University of Chicago survey of 42 top economists

A survey which will convince precisely no one, because the 35% of Americans who believe that the GOP tax bill will save them from a nightmare of Obama-Clinton oppression also believe, one, that universities are evil, two, that Chicago is evil, and three, that experts are evil.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:46 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Alexandra Petri (@petridishes):
gary cohn: crinkle crinkle hissing sound weird echo
trump: did you just say the words 'crinkle crinkle hissing sound'
cohn: oh no dropped call

In case it isn't clear to everyone, Petri is referencing the report that Cohn really did fake a bad connection to get off the phone with Trump.
posted by Justinian at 11:46 AM on November 22, 2017 [29 favorites]

In fairness, the University of Chicago is evil.
posted by LarsC at 11:47 AM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Approving the ACA took 60 votes, yet somehow (and, again, it really doesn't matter how) repealing it only took 50.

It's convenient that the part that doesn't matter how is what completely dismantles your underbaked suggestion.

It's not even that complicated: the primary thing that lets something get passed in reconciliation and thereby bypass the filibuster is if it's revenue neutral or positive. There's an argument - one that doesn't just hand-wave away objections - that this tilts it in favor of Republicans since progressive causes are more likely to cost money.

But if you have actually paid attention to how the sausage is being made with the health care repeal efforts you would see it's pretty much certain that if the filibuster was gone and they could have done the ACA repeal effort without having to be revenue neutral then it would have passed. The revenue issue prevented them from doling out as many gimmies for holdout Senators. It's not impossible that enough of a bone for Manchin could have gotten him on board, never mind the R holdouts.

This might not be a big worry if the Republicans were serious about not wanting deficits but they've demonstrated over and over again, most recently with the current tax bill, that they don't care when it's their legislation. So if they could pass some shitshow garbage by throwing a few states a trillion bucks they'd do it.

I'm sorry the vaguely invisible way the filibuster works isn't sexy enough for some people in comparison to a floor vote, but without it the last 10 months would have been even worse.
posted by phearlez at 11:49 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

University of Chicago economists are evil. That, and the dining halls.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:50 AM on November 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Petri is ripping off Alan Smithee.
posted by phearlez at 11:52 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

WaPo: Rep. Joe Barton apologized Wednesday after an explicit photo of him was posted to an anonymous Twitter account and began to circulate online.

Doesn't seem like retirement's in the cards yet. Boo.

Also, good for a Nelson ha-ha: Trump Organization Will Walk Away From Its Struggling SoHo Hotel in New York
posted by rewil at 11:54 AM on November 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

Approving the ACA took 60 votes, yet somehow (and, again, it really doesn't matter how) repealing it only took 50.

Side note: getting to 60 votes required Al Franken being seated as a U.S. Senator in 2009 after a prolonged recount process.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:55 AM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'm with Sotonohito: When (if?) the Democrats are in power they absolutely need to get rid of the filibuster and similar procedural tricks that prevent things coming to a vote. The idea of placing brakes on the legislative process makes sense, but it assumes a degree of bipartisanship that no longer exists. The Republicans have shown that they win everything by blocking everything until the electoral cycle favors them. It's intolerable. Literally intolerable: you must not tolerate this subversion of your country's legislature.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:55 AM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

The survey is of academic economists from all over the country, UofC administered the survey but its economists are a minority of respondents. But yeah, typical conservative complaints about ivory towers still stand.
posted by peeedro at 12:02 PM on November 22, 2017

Here's a new MeFi post (by The Whelk), linking to research showing that high taxes do not cause the wealthy and "job creators" to flee. Kansas cut taxes,
while California raised them. Guess which state has the healthy economy?
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:09 PM on November 22, 2017 [46 favorites]

Obamacare signups continue to be robust.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:18 PM on November 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

sotonohito:

Threat of a filibuster is the reason the GOP tax plan hasn't been passed yet.

- The bill must pass with 60 votes to thwart a Democratic filibuster. There are 51 Republicans in the Senate.
- That means 9 Democrats would need to vote for the tax bill. Which isn't happening.
- There's only one other way to avoid a filibuster: If Republicans pass their bill through budget conciliation. This means that they have to be able to prove that the bill will not increase the deficit once ten years has passed. That is the "Byrd rule" requirement.
- The current bill does not conform to the Byrd rule. See: @SethHanlon "Per JCT, the Senate GOP tax bill hikes deficits by $1.5 trillion, with costs exploding toward the end of the window. Not even close to Byrd-worthy."

Eliminate the threat of a filibuster, and all the Republicans would need is the 51 votes they already have to pass the bill and bypass the Byrd rule.

Their current choices are as follows:
1) Risk a filibuster. Risk dozens of Democrats trashing their bill for hours and hours on national television, explaining in fine detail just exactly how it screws over everyone but the super-wealthy. The Democrats could theoretically dominate the news cycle for days.
2) Rewrite / eliminate the Byrd rule. Also risky.
3) Overrule the Senate parliamentarian when she says the tax plan violates the Byrd rule. At which point we all admit that all bets are off and the rule of law no longer applies.

Right now, the threat of a filibuster is the only thing standing between the country and the GOP tax plan. It has been hampering GOP efforts to pass legislation unimpeded. It's why Trump keeps telling Congress to kill the filibuster.

As phearlez notes, the details really do matter.
posted by zarq at 12:19 PM on November 22, 2017 [58 favorites]

Guess which state has the healthy economy?

This is one of those things where anecdotal data bites you in the ass. Texas has low taxes and an extremely strong economy which is attracting people. Cutting taxes doesn’t spur on an economy but people will be attracted to strong economies and low taxes.
posted by Talez at 12:23 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Actually, the GOP has a fourth option: rewrite their tax plan so it actually conforms to the Byrd rule. Seems unlikely.
posted by zarq at 12:25 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Additionally, sotonohito, there's a bit of a tautological argument in your position. "Why haven't we heard about all the terrible Republican policies stopped with the filibuster?" You haven't heard about them because the filibuster means the Republicans never pushed them.
posted by Justinian at 12:25 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Two MN state legislators resigning over sexual harassment allegations (Dem Senator and GOP Rep). This will mean special elections to fill these seats. The GOP controls the House by about 20 seats, and the Senate by one seat.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:26 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Uncontroversial opinions perfect for the Thanksgiving table

This turkey is delicious!

White supremacists are bad. (Some are of course very fine people.)

These mashed potatoes seem fine. They have a good consistency and are not too lumpy.

Okay, well, can we agree that Nazis at least are bad? Even if some of them have great hair?

This stuffing is excellent.

When it comes to people who should sit in Congress, liberals, as a group, are preferable to those who prey on high schoolers. (Carol, are you kidding me with this?)

In a perfect world, Russia would not intervene in the U.S. election.

OH, BOY, CRANBERRIES!

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:27 PM on November 22, 2017 [55 favorites]

zarq; the revenue shortfalls in the out years are small enough under the Senate plan that it seems likely to me that they will find some additional way to raise a bit of revenue and thus pass the Byrd bath.
posted by Justinian at 12:29 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

It's why Trump keeps telling Congress to kill the filibuster.

Well, with Trump being Trump it's more likely because he just doesn't understand the process. BUT the people who do understand the process know that if they could just spend money any way they wanted they'd be a lot freer to make a deal with holdouts. A simple majority vote without
the limits that exist on reconciliation would almost certainly be doable.

zarq; the revenue shortfalls in the out years are small enough under the Senate plan that it seems likely to me that they will find some additional way to raise a bit of revenue and thus pass the Byrd bath.

The hope here is that while it may not be huge money, it's still money that means someone's ox gets gored via an increase or losing a cut and nobody's inclined to be the one.
posted by phearlez at 12:31 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Justinian: Could be! A billion here, a billion there.....

What's crazy about this to me is that in their place (if i were a soulless Republican eager to line the pockets of the superwealthy and screw over 99% of the country,) I'd just say damn the torpedoes and let the Dems filibuster. What's the worst that could happen? They go back to the drawing board? They'd still be making the attempt.

The longest (is it still the longest?) filibuster in Senate history was Strom Thurmond filibustering against the Civil Rights Act and he failed.

But they're afraid of transparency and a public debate about how cravenly evil they're being. So we have a standoff.
posted by zarq at 12:32 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

zarq; the revenue shortfalls in the out years are small enough under the Senate plan that it seems likely to me that they will find some additional way to raise a bit of revenue and thus pass the Byrd bath.

They can just have Pence ignore the parliamentarian’s ruling and declare by fiat the plan is revenue neutral.
posted by Talez at 12:33 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

If they were going to pull that kind of chicanery they would have already done so with the ACA repeal.
posted by Justinian at 12:35 PM on November 22, 2017

This is one of those things where anecdotal data bites you in the ass. Texas has low taxes and an extremely strong economy which is attracting people. Cutting taxes doesn’t spur on an economy but people will be attracted to strong economies and low taxes.
posted by Talez at 12:23 PM on November 22 [+] [!]

Texas is 12th overall in average state and local taxes. California is 10th.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:40 PM on November 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Uncontroversial opinions perfect for the Thanksgiving table

James Hamblin covers some of the same territory from a doctor's point of view with his typical millennial irony, Answers to Every Possible Thanksgiving Health Question.
posted by peeedro at 12:40 PM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

Texas is 12th overall in average state and local taxes. California is 10th.

This article is about sales taxes specifically, not overall state and local taxes.
posted by eyesontheroad at 12:45 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

If they were going to pull that kind of chicanery they would have already done so with the ACA repeal.

Except they couldn’t find 50 on the motion to proceed. If it had gone through then those tricks might have had to surface.
posted by Talez at 12:46 PM on November 22, 2017

We're getting pretty in the weeds here but the ACA repeal passed the motion to proceed with McCain voting yes. It failed on the skinny repeal amendment which was a substantive vote and not a motion to proceed.
posted by Justinian at 12:49 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:

-- WP: 2018 may be "Year of The Woman" redux.

-- Charlie Cook: Looks like a wave, all right.

** PA-18 special -- WP: Dems think they have a shot here.

===

A very sincere wish for a happy Thanksgiving from all the staff here at ELECTIONS NEWS. And if you're not celebrating, at least enjoy a quiet day on the political front.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:53 PM on November 22, 2017 [74 favorites]

If you think a filibuster requires a Senator to stand up and keep talking then you don't understand the modern filibuster. All it means now is that there's a motion to proceed and that motion requires 60 votes. You do not accomplish a filibuster by taking the stage and refusing to keep it, you filibuster by denying the M2P 41 votes.

Explainer by Vox. "A common misconception is that the stalling tactic has to be a lengthy speech."
posted by phearlez at 1:01 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Atlantic: Women Exit the Party of Trump

Also:
Donald Trump’s Eternal Feud With Blackness
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:03 PM on November 22, 2017 [14 favorites]

Texas is 12th overall in average state and local taxes. California is 10th.

This article is about sales taxes specifically, not overall state and local taxes.
posted by eyesontheroad at 12:45 PM on November 22 [+] [!]


Yeah, my bad. Here is the overall burden by state. Texas is 46th (7.6%), California is 6th (11.0%).

Your point holds either way: anecdotes are useless. I plotted sales tax and total tax burden against average growth from 2010-2013 (the latest data I could find quickly), and for neither one is there any discernible trend. ND is an outlier because of the Bakken oil fields (~11% growth over four years).
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:13 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

phearlez, thanks for that. Fascinating. I had no idea.
posted by zarq at 1:26 PM on November 22, 2017

The wordplay of the last two sentences of the Petri piece are why she is a national treasure.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 1:33 PM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

> In recent years, the GOP has struggled to combat its image as a pack of grumpy old white guys.

This is really stretching my personal definition of “recent.”
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:36 PM on November 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Clyburn: Harassment Claims Against Rep. Conyers ‘Could Be Made Up’ (Matt Shuham, TPM)

Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-SC), the third-ranking Democrat in the House of Representatives, initially said Wednesday afternoon that he supported a “deliberate and thorough” investigation into “very disturbing” allegations of sexual harassment made against Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) by multiple women.

Later that day, he was quoted in the New York Times striking a decidedly different tone.

“You can’t jump to conclusions with these types of things,” Clyburn said. “For all I know, all of this could be made up.”

posted by Room 641-A at 1:40 PM on November 22, 2017

> Some years ago when there was a huge public debate about the depressed areas here in Denmark which were going all yellow (radical racist right), some friends and I began to suggest that those dilapidated areas could well be the new "inner cities". As young people, artists and entrepreneurs get priced out of the cities, the outskirts will become attractive. And it has begun to happen, faster than we thought. The election landslide I mentioned above is clearly indicative of it.

> Every comparison of small/tiny European countries with the US needs to be on the state level. You can't compare Denmark with the entire US, but you can compare it with a state. And most states have large blue populations in the cities.

> The Danish Social Democrats have been doing a "fifty states strategy" this year, except if you compare the scales it would probably be more like a "every single little tiny municipality strategy". It worked already.

Something similar has been happening at the state level in the US, at least here in Virginia where I can see it up close. Demographic changes have made a lot of gerrymandered safe Republican districts, based on the 2010 census, much less safe in second half of the decade. In this year's election, Democrats contested a lot of districts that the Party hasn't contested in a long time. This, combined with strong turnout by Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters, allowed us to almost flip the lower house of the state legislature this year. (There's a chance we could still do it pending recounts.) There's a good chance we could flip both houses in 2019 when we have our next state legislative elections.

I can't vouch for what's happening in other states. We'll see what happens in 2018.
posted by nangar at 1:41 PM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

“You can’t jump to conclusions with these types of things,” Clyburn said. “For all I know, all of this could be made up.”

Noooooo. What is wrong with them?

Maybe you guys are correct and we need a giant purge.
posted by Justinian at 1:44 PM on November 22, 2017 [12 favorites]

The Atlantic: Women Exit the Party of Trump

Of all of the horrors of 11/9, the women who voted Trump really were the unkindest cuts.
posted by petebest at 1:45 PM on November 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

The Atlantic: Women Exit the Party of Trump

And that was written BEFORE Mr. "Women Are Special" opened his foul gaping maw yesterday in defense of Pedo-Bro.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:49 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

>Approving the ACA took 60 votes, yet somehow (and, again, it really doesn't matter how) repealing it only took 50.

>This is just not true. Some of the ACA took 60 votes to approve and some took 50 votes and was done with reconciliation.

Perhaps you aren't aware but you are pushing widely debunked Republican talking points that the ACA was passed without 60 votes. That is false. 100% of what we know as the ACA was passed with 60 votes: the pre-existing condition rules, the insurance mandate, the subsidies, the ACA exchanges, medical loss ratios, and Medicare expansion. All of that was passed with 60 votes because the Republican filibuster required 60 votes. None of these key items of the ACA could be passed under a reconciliation rule.

Subsequent to the ACA, Democrats then passed a reconciliation bill making some minor changes to the revenue portions of the ACA, which is exactly what a reconciliation bill is intended to do. For example they changed the mandate penalty from $750 to $695, made adjustments to the subsidy tables and some new taxes. These were minor tweaks to revenue and taxes. It had nothing to do with the actual ACA law, which required 60 votes because of the Republican filibuster.

Additionally, part of why a bunch of Obamacare wasn't passed with reconciliation was because the Democrats had 60 votes so they just passed it with 60.

This is just wrong. It wasn't just some of the ACA that wasn't passed with reconciliation. All of it was. Do you really think that Democrats spent over a year groveling to get 60 votes just for the fun of it? They did it because that was the only way to legally pass the provisions of the ACA. That was the big hurdle. The subsequent reconciliation portion was just minor tweaks to revenue -- because that is the only thing you can do with reconciliation. You can't write new health law.

It's also worth pointing out that the ACA was not just revenue neutral. It was revenue positive, reducing deficits by over $100 billion. This was a Democrat decision, despite the fact that with 60 votes they didn't need to make a revenue neutral law.
posted by JackFlash at 2:17 PM on November 22, 2017 [55 favorites]

Debbie Dingell of Michigan was on CNN talking about Conyers and potential ethics investigations. She came across terribly. Pelosi has to call the caucus and they need to get on the same fuckin' page about how to respond to these allegations.
posted by Justinian at 2:17 PM on November 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

You're misreading me, JackFlash. I was saying that some of what was passed with 60 votes could have been passed with 50 votes under reconciliation, but since they were passing a 60 vote bill for the parts they needed 60 votes for they included the bits they could have done under reconciliation.

Perhaps you aren't aware but you are pushing widely debunked Republican talking points that the ACA was passed without 60 votes. That is false. 100% of what we know as the ACA was passed with 60 votes

I'm fully aware of how the ACA was passed. Your very next paragrah talks about "tweaks" that were passed with reconciliation. You can say that only minor parts of the ACA were affected by reconciliation but you can't say that "this is false" that any of the ACA was affected by reconciliation. That Republicans try to bullshit and compare the process to what they did doesn't mean I don't understand how the ACA was done.
posted by Justinian at 2:21 PM on November 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Additionally, baseless accusations of pushing Republican talking points is rather insulting.
posted by Justinian at 2:24 PM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

I really had my hopes up for another Mueller "the indictments are coming soon" announcement before the long weekend, so that we could bask in the panic the Kushners felt over their turkey. I guess the night's not over yet; universe, do you think you could help me out with this one, before I have to deal with Trumpist relatives tomorrow?
posted by Mayor West at 2:31 PM on November 22, 2017 [6 favorites]

Threat of a filibuster is the reason the GOP tax plan hasn't been passed yet.

This isn't true. The reason it hasn't passed yet is because they don't yet have the agreement of 51 Republicans. The filibuster has nothing to do with it.

For a budget reconciliation bill Republicans only need 51 votes. Under reconciliation rules, Republicans can pass a deficit bill as long as there are no additional deficits past the 10 year scoring window -- the Byrd rule. The deficits in the first 10 years can be as high as they are willing to stomach. In the current reconciliation bill they agreed amongst themselves on allowing $1.5 trillion in deficits in the first 10 years.

They get around the Byrd rule by phasing out some of the tax breaks for middle class individuals after 10 years but keeping the tax breaks for corporations and the rich. This is the same way the Bush tax cuts got around the Byrd rule, phasing out some tax cuts after 10 years. They only need 51 votes to do this if they can get the numbers to pencil out.

You might say that the filibuster is keeping Republican from passing an even worse tax bill, but the plan all along has been to use reconciliation and 51 votes. That bill will be bad enough.
posted by JackFlash at 2:33 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Just wanted to share a little holiday cheer. Yesterday I was riding a Kaiser shuttle to one of its buildings in Oakland when a passenger's phone went off. Fuck Donald Trump. Bitch! boomed Snoop loudly. Everyone in the shuttle burst into laughter. Somebody said, "You know we all want to say it," and we all laughed again. So yeah, it's not a revolution but it felt great to have the obvious acknowledged even among a bunch of strangers.
posted by Bella Donna at 2:33 PM on November 22, 2017 [111 favorites]

See?

He is a uniter!
posted by darkstar at 2:37 PM on November 22, 2017 [11 favorites]

I really had my hopes up for another Mueller "the indictments are coming soon" announcement before the long weekend, so that we could bask in the panic the Kushners felt over their turkey.

I feel ya, but I'm also OK if the Mueller team knocked off early and played hooky for the afternoon just this once. 'Cause you know they're toiling away like sweaty stevedores loading up the barge of just desserts all the live-long day otherwise. ♫ Heigh-ho, heigh-ho, it's off to work we go! ♫
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:47 PM on November 22, 2017

Texas has low taxes and an extremely strong economy which is attracting people. Cutting taxes doesn’t spur on an economy but people will be attracted to strong economies and low taxes.

Yes, the widely promoted Texas Economic Miracle, the proof the Right has used to show how low taxes are good for the economy. And to a certain extent, they're right, in that if you have one state with low taxes directly competing with a state that's about the same but with high taxes, businesses are likely to move to the low tax state, at least for a while.

Of course this doesn't apply to the federal government, because there situation of competition is way, way more complicated when you're talking about nations.

Also, the Texas Miracle is Over. Oil prices were funding it, to a great extent, and the drop in those has popped the bubble. Plus our state legislature has gotten more and more insane to the point where they are now completely non-functional hard right whackjobs and everything is falling apart. Why Texas Is No Longer Feeling Miraculous (NYT)

Texas’ woes are interconnected. Rising energy prices allow politicians to take their hands off the legislative wheel. Less attention to smart, controlled growth at the state and local level allowed unchecked sprawl along the coast. And now declining revenues will make it harder for the state to address its very real needs, assuming the Legislature can get its act together. The silver lining to this tale? It finally seems to be dawning on people that low taxes, less regulation and more oil are no substitute for actually governing.

posted by threeturtles at 2:52 PM on November 22, 2017 [18 favorites]

A former business associate of Michael Flynn has become a subject of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation for his role in the failure of Flynn's former lobbying firm to disclose its work on behalf of foreign governments, three sources familiar with the investigation told NBC News.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:57 PM on November 22, 2017 [18 favorites]

Speaking as a Texan, the Texas Miracle isn't all that miraculous. They're eating the seed corn, and relying on big metro areas that have high local taxes to provide the services that attract the businesses.

Take, for example, my hometown of San Antonio. We just recently passed a tax increase to pay for improvements to city infrastructure, parks, wild areas, bike trails, museums, and so on. The Texas Miracle is happening in places like Dallas and San Antonio and Austin and Houston, not places like White Deer or Pampa or Hereford or Marksville.

As you pointed out, the oil boom is ending, the rural areas never did contribute much to the Texan economy and now they're contributing less. All the economic activity that funds the rural areas, surprise, happens in the urban cores of the state same as everywhere else.

Difference is that unlike in California the state doesn't have a decent tax structure to spread that wealth around so the rural poor in Texas are worse off than the rural poor in California, and now that the oil boom is over the rural poor will be hurting more and more.
posted by sotonohito at 3:01 PM on November 22, 2017 [53 favorites]

Mrs. VTX works in an industry where the last three months of the year are crazy busy. She works a lot of extra hours and she works a LOT harder during those hours. One of the ways that we get through it is by viewing it as a team effort. This means that I end up doing a lot more work around the house. I work harder on the non-work stuff so that she can focus on work. We know that we're going to see less of each other and we're okay with that.

And I'm just a supportive husband helping his wife deal with the part of her job that sucks not support her while she works to help save democracy. I think that if Mrs. VTX were on Mueller's team she'd be calling me asking if it's okay that she miss Thanksgiving to keep working while I'd just be thankful that I didn't need to be the one to bring it up.

Resting IS a necessary part of working so they do need downtime just to remain productive but if any of them spend the holiday working, I totally get it and I bet their families do to.
posted by VTX at 3:02 PM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Robert Reich took down the Texas Miracle BS a while back. There's even a video. He talks about how regulation-heavy California is thriving contrary to Republican opinion about how the economy works.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:17 PM on November 22, 2017 [9 favorites]

WaPo, Kimberly Kindy, Steve Hendrix and Michelle Ye Hee Lee, Ethics lawyer says Conyers mistreated her during her years on Capitol Hill:

A high-profile Washington lawyer specializing in congressional ethics said Wednesday that Rep. John Conyers Jr. (D-Mich.) harassed and verbally abused her when she worked for him on Capitol Hill in the 1990s and that her repeated appeals for help to congressional leadership were ignored.

“There was nothing I could do to stop it,” Melanie Sloan said in an interview. “Not going to leadership, not going to my boss, not going to a women’s group, not going to a reporter. I was dismissed and told I must be mentally unstable.”
...
In addition to accusations of sexual misconduct, the claims against Conyers included “mistreatment of staff.” Sloan said she did not believe she was sexually harassed by the congressman, but she said his behavior toward her was inappropriate and abusive. She said she was speaking publicly after seeing Conyers dismiss former staff members’ accounts of misconduct.

Sloan said that Conyers routinely yelled at and berated her, often criticizing her appearance. On one occasion, she said, he summoned her to his Rayburn Building office, where she found him in his underwear.

The Democratic Party needs to get its shit together on this yesterday.

McClatchy, Anita Kumar And Ben Wieder, Top Trump staffers failed to file financial reports on their way out the door, in which at least four former staffers never filed their financial disclosure reports as required by law. Worse, Bannon's spokesman says he did file, while the White House says he didn't. The reports could help reveal whether officials complied with ethics requirements (such as whether Bannon ever did sell his Cambridge Analytica stock like he was supposed to) or used their jobs to enrich themselves.

WaPo, Jenna Johnson, On Trump’s Thanksgiving menu: Grievances and calls for gratitude — for him

This Thanksgiving, President Trump doesn’t seem to be thankful for very much — and seems frustrated that Americans aren’t expressing more gratitude for him.
...
Just before Trump formally pardoned the bird, he said: “I feel so good about myself doing this.”

A very sincere wish for a happy Thanksgiving from all the staff here at ELECTIONS NEWS. And if you're not celebrating, at least enjoy a quiet day on the political front.

Likewise, a wonderful and peaceful Thanksgiving from us here at "Zach copies and pastes the news into MetaFilter." I'm thankful for all of you and this community.
posted by zachlipton at 3:25 PM on November 22, 2017 [55 favorites]

Per discussion of red state / blue state differences: if a hypothetical Mefite living in Oregon were considering a move to North Carolina, just to pick an example, what rude awakenings might she or he find due to the different political situation?

I realize that marijuana and assisted suicide would be illegal, but am curious about less obvious differences. Just wondering what the federalism bubble might be obscuring.
posted by msalt at 3:29 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is a good dive into all the ramifications of Trump's loose lips.

Exclusive: What Trump Really Told Kislyak After Comey Was Canned (Howard Blum, Vanity Fair)

What further exacerbates Israel’s concerns—“keeps me up at night” was how a government spymaster put it—is that if Trump is handing over Israel’s secrets to the Russians, then he just might as well be delivering them to Iran, Russia’s current regional ally. And it is an expansionist Iran, one Israeli after another was determined to point out in the course of discussions, that is arming Hez­bol­lah with sophisticated rockets and weaponry while at the same time becoming an increasingly visible economic and military presence in Syria.

“Trump betrayed us,” said a senior Israeli military official bluntly, his voice stern with reproach. “And if we can’t trust him, then we’re going to have to do what is necessary on our own if our back is up against the wall with Iran.” Yet while appalled governments are now forced to rethink their tactics in future dealings with a wayward president, there is also the dismaying possibility that a more tangible, and more lethal, consequence has already occurred. “The Russians will undoubtedly try to figure out the source or the method of this information to make sure that it is not also collecting on their activities in Syria—and in trying to do that they could well disrupt the source,” said Michael Morell.

I really had my hopes up for another Mueller "the indictments are coming soon" announcement before the long weekend,

I'm pinning my hopes on the eight days of Muellerkah.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:30 PM on November 22, 2017 [22 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
51 Million American to travel this weekend - highest number in twelve years (AAA). Traffic and airports are running very smoothly! @FoxNews


@chrislhayes
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
This is an absolute all-timer. He's literally live-tweeting obligatory holiday travel segments.

@BecketAdams
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
you know who else made the trains run on time …

@OhNoSheTwitnt
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
We now go live to Jim with the weather!
posted by chris24 at 3:33 PM on November 22, 2017 [57 favorites]

Per discussion of red state / blue state differences: if a hypothetical Mefite living in Oregon were considering a move to North Carolina, just to pick an example, what rude awakenings might she or he find due to the different political situation?

I realize that marijuana and assisted suicide would be illegal, but am curious about less obvious differences. Just wondering what the federalism bubble might be obscuring.

I've mostly lived in NC most of my life. I've been to two conferences in Portland. My impression is that compared to Oregon:
Our Republicans are super unpleasant and powerful due to the history of white supremacy and the good old boy network being unquestioned/unquestionable by white people. Hypocritical, hateful conservative Christianity is an incredibly powerful and potent force that controls lots of things, especially in small towns. We have a lot fewer white people and a lot more diversity among our middle class and elected officials and politically active folks. As a result of the latter, white progressives are wildly unsuccessful if they do not get involved with and work with black, latinx, native, and immigrant groups that are already there doing the hard work, particularly the black church.
posted by hydropsyche at 3:36 PM on November 22, 2017 [31 favorites]

A Democratic victory in 2018 and 2020 that doesn't include expanding the Supreme Court and the Federal courts to (effectively) nullify the illegitimate appointments of Trump will be a hollow victory at best, and likely the very last thing the Democrats ever manage to accomplish.

This is undoubtedly a naive question, but if Trump is ousted as a result of the Mueller investigation, would it not be possible to void his judicial appointments on the grounds that appointments by an illegitimate president are themselves illegitimate? Granted we'd have to manage to pass a bill to do it, but...
posted by rifflesby at 3:47 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

I realize that marijuana and assisted suicide would be illegal, but am curious about less obvious differences. Just wondering what the federalism bubble might be obscuring.

NB: You'll see bumper stickers in NC that say, "We don't give a damn how you did it up north."
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:54 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

This is undoubtedly a naive question, but if Trump is ousted as a result of the Mueller investigation, would it not be possible to void his judicial appointments on the grounds that appointments by an illegitimate president are themselves illegitimate? Granted we'd have to manage to pass a bill to do it, but...
posted by rifflesby at 3:47 PM on November 22 [+] [!]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think even now there is sufficient evident to petition the courts to overturn the 2016 presidential election on the grounds that Russian interference and collusion with the Trump campaign invalidate its legitimacy. Why the Democrats or the Clinton campaign staff are not at least trying to do this is beyond me. I recognize that many are skeptical that this would work and note that it is without precedent, but lack of precedence is also an opening for trying this. It would not be the first time a federal court invalidated an election.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:58 PM on November 22, 2017 [15 favorites]

Not really any basis for that. They could be impeached for that reason (you don't really need any reason for impeaching), but there's no "fruit of the poison tree" out clause.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:00 PM on November 22, 2017 [7 favorites]

...but there's no "fruit of the poison tree" out clause.

But there is an "invalid election" clause. Regardless of anyone's cocksuredness, whether the courts could roll back the actions of an invalidly elected executive is a matter for the courts to decide, not us.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:03 PM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Exclusive: What Trump Really Told Kislyak After Comey Was Canned (Howard Blum, Vanity Fair)

Israel—as well as America’s other allies—would rethink its willingness to share raw intelligence, and pretty much the entire Free World was left shaking its collective head in bewilderment as it wondered, not for the first time, what was going on with Trump and Russia. (In fact, Trump’s disturbing choice to hand over highly sensitive intelligence to the Russians is now a focus of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into Trump’s relationship with Russia, both before and after the election.) In the hand-wringing aftermath, the entire event became, as is so often the case with spy stories, a tale about trust and betrayal.

@brianbeutler (Crooked Media)
One hell of an unsourced parenthetical.

@joshtpm
Retweeted Brian Beutler
Good lord, yes. Blah blah blah and blah (likely to take place after Trump’s upcoming treason indictment) blah blah blah
posted by chris24 at 4:10 PM on November 22, 2017 [39 favorites]

I fear Trump is going to prove to be too stupid and incompetent to be pinned for treason. "He's not a traitor, he's just a narcissistic moron."
posted by Justinian at 4:20 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

I thought it was common knowledge that Trump passed off code-word intelligence to the Russians during that meeting. Something about the Islamic State given to US intelligence by Israel.
posted by xyzzy at 4:44 PM on November 22, 2017 [13 favorites]

Mental Wimp: "But there is an "invalid election" clause. Regardless of anyone's cocksuredness, whether the courts could roll back the actions of an invalidly elected executive is a matter for the courts to decide, not us."

I'm aware of that case, not least because you link it all of the time. The question wasn't whether Trump could be removed in the case of verifiable fraud that illegitimated the election - a question that itself has many complexities - but whether all of his actions would thereby be invalidated. If you are aware of any statute or case law in the US that touches on that, I would be most interested. I'm sure not aware of anything, but I am open to learning.

Unless we're going to bar any legal analysis here on the basis of us not being the courts, I think it's okay to state our understanding of the legal situation.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:57 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

I've mostly lived in NC most of my life. I've been to two conferences in Portland. My impression is that compared to Oregon:
Our Republicans are super unpleasant and powerful due to the history of white supremacy and the good old boy network being unquestioned/unquestionable by white people.

Sadly, it took me a moment to realize you weren't talking about Oregon, which has it's own unique white supremacist legacy. It was illegal to be black in Oregon, even before it became a state. If the face of Oregon liberals is whiter in average complexion, it's largely because the state is still overwhemlingly white, due in no small part to the history of overtly racist policies.
posted by pwnguin at 5:10 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

It’s profoundly disturbing that the phrase “it’s common knowledge that Trump passed off code-word intelligence to the Russians” just rolls off the tongue. The number of deep outrages vastly exceeds our ability to even remember them all.
posted by zachlipton at 5:10 PM on November 22, 2017 [53 favorites]

I thought it was common knowledge that Trump passed off code-word intelligence to the Russians during that meeting. Something about the Islamic State given to US intelligence by Israel.

I think the notable part of that passage is that Trump's actions that day are "a focus of special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation". That's not sourced and not many people have claimed to have that that kind of insight into the investigation.

It's notable because it's not concerning foreign lobbying laws or money laundering by campaign underlings, family, or TrumpCo employees, but Trump himself handing intelligence to an adversary, which John Marshall points out, can be considered treason. We've all been jumping up and down calling it treason so it's old hat here; but if that passage is true, Mueller is now developing that legal argument which is a big deal.
posted by peeedro at 5:22 PM on November 22, 2017 [16 favorites]

Legal complaint filed over Kellyanne Conway's comments on Roy Moore race (Josh Gerstein, Politico)

A prominent government ethics expert has filed a complaint against White House counselor Kellyanne Conway, alleging that she violated federal law Monday by appearing to oppose Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore's Democratic opponent.

Walter Shaub, who resigned in July as the head of the Office of Government Ethics, said on Twitter on Wednesday that he lodged a complaint claiming that the top aide to President Donald Trump ran afoul of the Hatch Act when she discouraged Alabamans from voting for the Democratic nominee, Doug Jones.

"I have filed a complaint with the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, which investigates Hatch Act violations," Shaub tweeted

I’ve seen it reported in multiple places that Trump gave her his personal approval to go out with that message.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:22 PM on November 22, 2017 [30 favorites]

There is no Hatch Act unless people are punished for violating it.
posted by kirkaracha at 5:31 PM on November 22, 2017 [46 favorites]

Genuine question - in a post Net Neutrality world (A New Chaotic Evil world?), is there any reason a service provider couldn't require you to use a browser that they provide/of their choice? Like, you know, make things all AOL style again? Like everyone on Comcast is required to use Netscape Navigator and have their homepage set to Comcast's front page?
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:45 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

What's the statute of limitations on a Hatch Act violation? That's the real question here - will people be held accountable afterward. We missed out with the Bush administration, will this one be any different?
posted by eclectist at 5:46 PM on November 22, 2017

would it not be possible to void his judicial appointments on the grounds that appointments by an illegitimate president are themselves illegitimate?

No, not possible - essential. Critical.
posted by petebest at 6:02 PM on November 22, 2017 [5 favorites]

Joey Michaels, I would assume that you could still use your own browser, but they would have the option of charging you more for the "support" they would offer for not using their browser.

I don't think that is where the whole net neutrality thing is going. ISPs are looking to charge Netflix, Hulu, et al. to drive them out of business by charging exorbitant prices which will eventually have to be passed on to users who have cut the cable. The cable conveniently owned by ISPs.

I would assume there are a couple of server people at each cable company running some version of *nix or BSD at home who would scream bloody murder and/or just turn off a switch or two at their work if their non-standard browser stopped working. Not to mention, a browser is only one of many ways to use the internet.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:05 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Finally, the hour I spent reading up on Packet Radio will start to pay off!
posted by petebest at 6:18 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Donald Trump could go on national television, put both hands and his dick on assorted Bibles, and declare that I, Donald Trump, Freely Admit That I Colluded With Russia In The Past Election, Russians Hacked Nine States' Polling Places, They Are Hiding Uranium In My Ass And The Pee Tape Is Real and not only would the election not be overturned, Trump's approval rating among Republicans would remain over 50% and three hosts on Fox would shout that not only should Trump remain as President, it's actually grounds to jail Hillary and deport Sonia Sotomayor.

Barring an absolutely brutal pile of incontrovertible evidence, it would take a miracle to get a Republican Congress to dislodge Trump. Fixing Congress is Step 1. Put "roll back everything Trump did" on the to-do list of the next Democratic President, not on some hypothetical magic judge.
posted by delfin at 6:39 PM on November 22, 2017 [40 favorites]

What's the statute of limitations on a Hatch Act violation? That's the real question here - will people be held accountable afterward. We missed out with the Bush administration, will this one be any different?

The conundrum here is how holding this regime's clowns accountable for their lawbreaking after they're out of office will put us in an argument about "going after your political opponents." Yes, the difference here is Hillary Clinton didn't do a damn thing to merit prosecution while the Trump Regime breaks a dozen laws before getting out of bed in the morning, and so it's a false comparison...except it will be a key argument. And it'll work on Democratic politicians. They won't want to do it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 6:45 PM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

Judge rules Seattle income tax illegal, in which even an attempt to ask people taking home over 250k/year (500k/couple) to pay a meager 2.25%, yeah forget it.
posted by ctmf at 6:47 PM on November 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

And it'll work on Democratic politicians. They won't want to do it.

Nobody wants to do it because nobody wants their lives dragged into the press as part of a political witch-hunt because even if the premise isn't valid, you can still to incredible damage. I realize that Trump has basically stood on the line with a raised leg stuck out over it while taunting "It's not over the line until my foot is down" but the prospect of politically driven vengeance shouldn't be part of the transfer of power. Nobody wants it.
posted by Talez at 6:53 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Oh the Lemon Party Majority Leader Joe Barton apparently threatened to report his pen pal to the Capitol Police if she divulged them. It's not up on WP's main site but it did just hit my feed.
posted by Talez at 7:00 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Far be it from me to defend Joe Barton, who is a political nightmare and sounds like a complete sleaze, but I actually think that distributing those photos without his consent might fall into the category of revenge porn, which is illegal in some places in the US. And while it's real dumb to send naked photos to your consensual, adult sex partners when you're a family-values-type congressman, it's not a crime. There are lots of reasons that I hope Barton's political career ends, but everything I've heard so far sounds to me like it falls into the category of private (dumb, sleazy) behavior.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:18 PM on November 22, 2017 [27 favorites]

It seems I do. I swear I had a fully-detailed memory of that exchange being in Back to the Future, even hearing the lines in the actors' voices. So I looked up "Shooter McGavin", found the clip, thought "Wow, they stole that from BttF!". Nope, they didn't. Apparently this is my personal Mandela Effect. In my defense, he actors playing McGavin and Biff look similar. But to my shame, apparently I saw at least part of Happy Gilmore once.

Biff hates manure.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:23 PM on November 22, 2017 [4 favorites]

Donald Trump could go on national television, put both hands and his dick on assorted Bibles, and declare that I, Donald Trump, Freely Admit That I Colluded With Russia In The Past Election, Russians Hacked Nine States' Polling Places, They Are Hiding Uranium In My Ass And The Pee Tape Is Real and not only would the election not be overturned, Trump's approval rating among Republicans would remain over 50% and three hosts on Fox would shout that not only should Trump remain as President, it's actually grounds to jail Hillary and deport Sonia Sotomayor.

Yep. It's the political version of the way certain dudes will never admit their favorite sports team sucks.
posted by Rykey at 7:37 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

Do you guys really think some of the things you are proposing as critical have a chance of happening or is this fanfic? Because the best case realistic scenario, in my opinion, is Trump being removed in favor of Pence and nothing else. The best case optimistic scenario are Trump and Pence both being removed in favor of a never-Trumper compromise Republican. All the court appointments, bills passed (lol so far), etc will stand.
posted by Justinian at 7:44 PM on November 22, 2017 [21 favorites]

My reactions, in order, to whenever some someone says ‘the Democrats MUST do this!’
1. Aren’t you the Democrats?
2. ripley_did_iqs_just_drop_sharply.gif
posted by um at 7:51 PM on November 22, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think the things being proposed are both critical and unlikely to occur.
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:06 PM on November 22, 2017 [10 favorites]

If you are aware of any statute or case law in the US that touches on that, I would be most interested.

I believe I used the word "unprecedented" to describe the situation. The suit I describe would create new case law, for better or for worse. There was no case law for Bush v. Gore, IIRC.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:12 PM on November 22, 2017

Nixon deserved to be impeached and only escaped that through resigning and getting pardoned. He legitimately was behind the break-in at Watergate. Even a few Republicans agreed at the time. However, every since then many Republicans have been desperate to catch a Democrat doing something equally dirty and are willing to go to any ends necessary to prosecute and persecute Democrats and defend Republican's, no matter how vile. In the absence of actual crimes, they're happy to invent all manner of ludicrous Democratic crimes (no doubt some percentage of Roy "Judge Keds" Moore's defenders believe that Pizzagate was a real thing). They're willing to go to any dishonest, misleading, unscrupulous length to enact their evil agenda even if it hurts them.

Their radical partisanship and detachment from objective reality combined with their malice and incompetence make therm singular unsuited for government and yet here we are with them in charge. My best case scenario is Trump is a one term president and a portion of the country goes apeshit believing that he was cheated out of a second term by evil Democrats. Then we spend two years being blamed for all the shit the Republicans are doing right now and they ride in on a wave in 2022 and we have to start all over again, like we always do.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:35 PM on November 22, 2017 [8 favorites]

Let me end that on a note of hope (with apologies to Beyond the Fringe): I hope this does not happen.
posted by Joey Michaels at 8:37 PM on November 22, 2017 [1 favorite]

"NB: You'll see bumper stickers in NC that say, "We don't give a damn how you did it up north.""

NB that NC has the fastest-growing Latino population in the entire US (smallest Catholic population by percentage -- 3%, less than Alaska! And a smaller cathedral than Alaska! -- and also the fastest-growing Catholic population due to Latino migrants.)

60% of the state's population growth comes from in-migrants. It is the ONLY state with more inbound movers than internal growth for every year in the last decade. (The Yankees are the most popular baseball team in NC, appallingly.) They totally DO give a damn how you did it up north, because a huge percentage of the state is Yankees, and another huge percentage is Mexicans.

If you're not allergic, it's a lovely place to live, and a great place to help flip blue! It's so close! You can flip it in a couple years and feel very accomplished! But people are super-nice, you have lots of super-sophisticated and worldly neighbors (even in fairly small towns), the small towns are very tight-knit in the good way, and fewer people are armed than you'd think.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:24 PM on November 22, 2017 [39 favorites]

> The Nationalist’s Delusion “Yet it was not just Trump’s supporters who were in denial about what they were voting for, but Americans across the political spectrum, who, as had been the case with Duke’s rise, searched desperately for any alternative explanation—outsourcing, anti-Washington anger, economic anxiety—other than the one staring them in the face.”

What a Disgrace. This week might have been the low point in an administration full of them.

Never in my lifetime have the politics of the country seemed so removed from the people of the country. Never in my lifetime have the people of the country seemed so removed from its politics. Never in my lifetime have political decisions seemed so removed from their consequences. An election driven by fear and hate and abandoned wrath has produced dangerous chasms into which the entire system may one day fall, and nobody appears to have any idea what to do about it. Adam Serwer’s brilliant piece in The Atlantic is as good an explanation as any about what happened last November, and what may happen as a result.

It was not just Trump’s supporters who were in denial about what they were voting for, but Americans across the political spectrum, who, as had been the case with those who had backed David Duke, searched desperately for any alternative explanation—outsourcing, anti-Washington anger, economic anxiety—to the one staring them in the face. The frequent post-election media expeditions to Trump country to see whether the fever has broken, or whether Trump’s most ardent supporters have changed their minds, are a direct outgrowth of this mistake. These supporters will not change their minds, because this is what they always wanted: a president who embodies the rage they feel toward those they hate and fear, while reassuring them that that rage is nothing to be ashamed of.

You cannot run a democracy on that basis. You perhaps cannot even run a nation, at least not one that doesn't devolve steadily into savagery. These were not unavoidable choices. We made them in the clear light of day. What a poisoned country we have left ourselves.

posted by homunculus at 10:40 PM on November 22, 2017 [66 favorites]

I really had my hopes up for another Mueller "the indictments are coming soon" announcement before the long weekend,

This didn't make a big splash, and apparently didn't cross a lot of people's radar but Newsweek ran something y'day that will REALLY fuck up Kushner's holiday weekend.

Will Mueller Indict Kushner? Trump's Son-in-Law ‘Natural’ Target For Russia Probe, Legal Experts Say (autoplay video, but it's worth watching)
posted by mikelieman at 11:20 PM on November 22, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not really any basis for that. They could be impeached for that reason (you don't really need any reason for impeaching), but there's no "fruit of the poison tree" out clause.

We've been in uncharted territory for a year now. NONE OF THIS IS NORMAL.

All bets are off. You keep what you can grab. If they can blow off their duty to give advice and consent on a Presidential Nominee to the Supreme Court, well, there's no rule saying a dog CAN'T play basketball!
posted by mikelieman at 11:25 PM on November 22, 2017 [23 favorites]

well, there's no rule saying a dog CAN'T play basketball!

Would it have to be grateful?
posted by maxwelton at 12:25 AM on November 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

Would it have to be grateful?

Sadly not being adequately grateful ( the new uppity ), is still a showstopper.

Fortunately, dog. Being a dog means they're always grateful.

The dog is the only one who is always happy to see me come home.
posted by mikelieman at 12:46 AM on November 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

“Yet it was not just Trump’s supporters who were in denial about what they were voting for, but Americans across the political spectrum, who, as had been the case with Duke’s rise, searched desperately for any alternative explanation—outsourcing, anti-Washington anger, economic anxiety—other than the one staring them in the face.”

To follow up on this, For a year I was hearing from people, even here parroting the "Economic Anxiety" line, as part of an argument that we should reach out to the poor, sad, economically distressed Trump supporters. With the repeated argument that we should stop talking about racism or misogyny, because it just wasn't a factor in the election.

And it's taken a year, a full year of Trump's actions, as well as thorough analysis of Trump voters to put the lie to that notion. To get even some of those people to acknowledge that the true motivating force was white supremacy and misogyny. And I have no doubt in the run up t o2018 and 2020 there's going to be more "Let's understand the economic anxiety of these white folks and give them some hope". When what they want, and what they won't admit they want, is white supremacy.

We have to acknowledge that racism and misogyny are fundamental motivating forces for the majority of white Americans, attitudes that they've been trained to deny. We have to reaize that the fight we thought was over decades ago, is very far from won, and if we don't push bac, we'll lose..
posted by happyroach at 12:51 AM on November 23, 2017 [61 favorites]

actually, there's plenty of economic anxiety to go around, not just for white folks - the more it gets swept under the rug, the more neglected people are going to feel - and there is no way you can ignore the problems of trump supporters without ignoring the problems of the non-trump supporters they work with - you can't dismiss them without dismissing the people worst affected by racism and misogyny, because the economy is a fundamental tool of racists and misogynists and a fundamental means of actively recruiting them

you cannot separate economic issues from white supremacy
posted by pyramid termite at 2:21 AM on November 23, 2017 [22 favorites]

Here's a tweetstorm about an experience the tweeter, one Bandit Aleatoire, had with a WSJ "we'd like your help with a news story" survey. (I've had one of those pop up; it thought I was an American voter, so I baled before it got too surreal.)

It's quite complicated but not very long and includes screen shots, so rather than repeat the storm here, I'll give my summary.

In short: the survey knew their name and email address, and proceeded to ask questions about net neutrality. The coup de gras was a long paragraph laced with technicalities - did you agree? - with which said Bandit mostly did not, and quite a lot of which they did not understand, and this is how they replied.

At which point, the survey confirmed the email and name again, then told said Bandit that Bandit themselves had written the paragraph.

The very strong implication is that someone is generating fake-but-signed-by-real-people 'public responses' for the net neutrality consultation process. Bandit is very unhappy, but can find no way to protest or dispute what happened.

If true, and I think it has a high probability of being so, this is a new level of domestic cyber-propaganda and will need yet another level of countering - mostly to confirm it is happening, and to raise awareness that it's going on in order to discredit the results. Which will be hard, because this lot don't care how thin a figleaf is, but at least they still feel the need for figleaves.
posted by Devonian at 5:11 AM on November 23, 2017 [32 favorites]

Adding to the mounting evidence he's not the brightest bulb on the tree, Trump replied to a tweet accusing him of being racist from Greg Sargent at WaPo by saying MAGA. Or he's admitting he thinks racism makes America great.

@ThePlumLineGS
New post: Trump's rage-tweets about LaVar Ball are part of a pattern.

Trump regularly attacks high-profile African Americans to feed his supporters' belief that the system is rigged for minorities: Trump just rage-tweeted about a prominent African American again


@realDonaldTrump
Replying to @ThePlumLineGS
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

---

He tweeted MAGA again not in a reply, but hasn't deleted the reply one.
posted by chris24 at 5:41 AM on November 23, 2017 [30 favorites]

The very strong implication is that someone is generating fake-but-signed-by-real-people 'public responses' for the net neutrality consultation process.

Fraudulent public responses, driven by false narrative you say? Coordinated computer campaign to change real-world situations with virtual world threat actors eh?

THAT SOUNDS SO FAMILIAR
posted by petebest at 6:07 AM on November 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

Trump is now addressing the troops via FaceTime or whatever, and he opened by saying he’s surrounded by press — “better me than you, believe me." Not anything about all the soldiers we've lost this year. Nope. But he did mention the tax cuts.

The interesting part is that they're shooting this over his shoulder, so you can see him reading his notes, and seeing where he's ad-libbing. It's all so fake. Now he's saying hes going to ask the press to leave so they can talk confidentially. "We're set up for that, you know."

I'm sure there will be video, but for now here's a picture of him: 💩
posted by Room 641-A at 6:21 AM on November 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

Adding to the mounting evidence he's not the brightest bulb on the tree

He's also just attacked someone who was defending him.

@Realjmannarino: "The ungratefulness is something I’ve never seen before. If you get someone’s son out of prison, he should be grateful to you! Period. I don’t care. If Hillary got my kid out of prison, as much as I hate the woman, I’d thank her corrupt ass!"

[quoting the above] @realDonaldTrump: "Another Crooked Hillary Fan!"

Apparently he'd also quoted Mannarino approvingly the day before.

I guess it's possible Trump meant the reply conversationally and was referring to LaVar Ball: in a world where there was convincing evidence he has object/person persistence and reading comprehension that would even be the obvious, rational explanation.

Of course, this is not that world.
posted by Buntix at 6:32 AM on November 23, 2017 [13 favorites]

This is, indeed, a disturbing universe.
posted by petebest at 6:39 AM on November 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

Why the Democrats or the Clinton campaign staff are not at least trying to do this is beyond me. I recognize that many are skeptical that this would work and note that it is without precedent, but lack of precedence is also an opening for trying this.

I've been wondering this same thing now. If there was interference in the process and we now know beyond any real room for doubt there was, it should be invalidated and redone with better protections against the interference. It's straightforward. But we don't have any refs to referee the refs, and our current refs don't respect the spirit of our democratic processes and institutions enough to want to preserve them by doing what's necessary. There are no refs in the game that aren't also loyal to one of the teams, to use a sports analogy.
posted by saulgoodman at 6:55 AM on November 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

Do you guys really think some of the things you are proposing as critical have a chance of happening or is this fanfic? Because the best case realistic scenario, in my opinion, is Trump being removed in favor of Pence and nothing else. The best case optimistic scenario are Trump and Pence both being removed in favor of a never-Trumper compromise Republican. All the court appointments, bills passed (lol so far), etc will stand.

At the beginning of the 2016 primaries, what chance would you have given of Trump being elected President?

"This is the age of miracles, Doctor. There's nothing more horrifying than a miracle."
posted by leotrotsky at 8:35 AM on November 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

Further to the fake FCC consultation responses, it looks like there is indeed a big, ongoing and very mucky business afoot. (WaPo)

tl;dr - lots of obvious evidence of fake submissions by people who've had their identity hijacked, but the FCC is resisting any attempts to investigate this as efforts by partisans.

“This so-called investigation is nothing more than a transparent attempt by a partisan supporter of the Obama Administration’s heavy-handed Internet regulations to gain publicity for himself,” [FCC] spokesman Mark Wigfield said in a statement.

Which, as a statement from a regulatory body, is gobsmacking in itself.

The legals are flying, so who knows where this will end up, but I don't doubt that the Trumpists will be perfectly happy to have public consultation so sullied they just drop it altogether.

This administration is acting in such bad faith that unscrewing the pooch is going to be a long, hard slog.
posted by Devonian at 9:10 AM on November 23, 2017 [32 favorites]

He showed up at a Coast Guard station for a Thanksgiving photo op and for a second I imagined being one of those poor Coasties and now I'm not sure I can eat today.

There's a little clip of it on the Coast Guard's Facebook page. I refuse to listen to the audio. What's telling about it is the comments are split between mindless appreciation for "our president" & people complaining about everyone getting political versus the comments from people who know Trump has been absolutely shitty to the Coast Guard in every way that actually matters.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:17 AM on November 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

Buzzfeed: Here's What Trump Told The Coast Guard When He Visited Them On Thanksgiving (text)

The Navy, I can tell you, we're ordering ships, with the Air Force i can tell you we're ordering a lot of planes, in particular the F-35 fighter jet, which is like almost like an invisible fighter. I was asking the Air Force guys, I said, how good is this plane? They said, well, sir, you can't see it. I said but in a fight. You know, in a fight, like I watch on the movies. The fight, they're fighting. How good is this? They say, well, it wins every time because the enemy cannot see it. Even if it's right next to them, it can't see it. I said that helps. That's a good thing.

He thinks the F-35 is literally invisible. Like Wonder Woman's plane. For [real].
posted by chris24 at 9:24 AM on November 23, 2017 [84 favorites]

This administration is acting in such bad faith that unscrewing the pooch is going to be a long, hard slog.

you know, if you wanted to utterly destroy americans' faith in their government and anything else, tactics like fake opinions in the name of real people would be perfect

they're gambling that people will just give up in disgust

there's two problems - first, that people might rebel instead - and second, and more likely, a crisis will arise and no one will believe it or want to sacrifice for it
posted by pyramid termite at 9:26 AM on November 23, 2017 [5 favorites]

Trump accepts an oil painting of himself.

Trump also accepted an oil painting of himself from 90-year-old Bea Doone-Merena, a Boca Raton artist who brought two larger-than-life portraits of the president to the airport. Trump kept a stern-faced likeness of himself in a dark suit and red tie, and he autographed the other painting, which depicted him in a red “Make America Great Again” hat, and gave it back to Doone-Merena.

“He let me kiss him on the cheek. How do you like that?” Doone-Merena said afterward. “It was fabulous.”

With pictures!
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:30 AM on November 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Buzzfeed: Here's What Trump Told The Coast Guard When He Visited Them On Thanksgiving (text)

Go read the whole speech, it's impressively incoherent even for him.
posted by octothorpe at 9:43 AM on November 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

oh, my god - it's like getting hit over the head with a baseball bat, only you might recover from a baseball bat
posted by pyramid termite at 9:51 AM on November 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

Happy Thanksgiving you magnificent bastards.

Except you, Trump, I hope you are miserable and afraid.
posted by Justinian at 9:57 AM on November 23, 2017 [22 favorites]

From the coast guard speech: When we sell to other countries, even if they're allies you never know about an ally. An ally can turn. You're going to find that out.

That's not ominous in the least....
posted by bassooner at 9:57 AM on November 23, 2017 [25 favorites]

> Trump then served sandwiches.

I was going to make a crack about how this is the very first thing Trump's done that I cannot find reason to object to, but I'm operating under the assumption that a) they were good sandwiches and b) not Trump Sandwiches (TM), so further information is required.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:07 AM on November 23, 2017

I still haven't figured out how people take their boats out into a hurricane. Some day you'll explain it. Jean was just telling me they actually do it to to save their boat in many cases.

Didn’t he own a yacht? Like, it’s not that hard to understand that having your boat slam into the dock in a hurricane would be bad.
posted by zachlipton at 10:08 AM on November 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

Didn’t he own a yacht? Like, it’s not that hard to understand that having your boat slam into the dock in a hurricane would be bad.

Own a yacht? Certainly; it's one of those things that rich people are supposed to do. Enjoy the experience of being out on a yacht? Sure, we can assume he's capable of appreciating that simple human pleasure. Actually take the time to understand how yachts operate and what's involved in their care and maintenance? Hell, no.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:19 AM on November 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

Didn’t he own a yacht? Like, it’s not that hard to understand that having your boat slam into the dock in a hurricane would be bad.

He did. And then it was repossessed. And he was so scared of weighing anchor he only sailed on it once before it was taken.

In 1991, however, it was Trump's lunch that was eaten by a foreign competitor, when the real estate mogul, in debt to the tune of $900 million, ceded his 281-foot super-yacht Trump Princess over to creditors.

The yacht was then purchased by Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Bin Abdulaziz al Saud, mogul and member of the Saudi royal family. He also happens to have a stake in another forsaken Trump property: the Plaza hotel in New York.

The Donald had a strange affinity for the swanky yacht he purchased in 1988 from the Sultan of Brunei for $29 million, which at the time was one of the largest in the world. According to former Trump executive John R. O'Donnell, the real estate mogul sailed on it only once, its maiden voyage from the Azores to the New York harbor.

"It so terrified him when they weighed anchor -- the movement convinced him it was sinking -- that he would never sleep on it," wrote O'Donnell in his book Trumped!. "All the time it was docked at the marina, he went on board only to watch boat races or occasionally to entertainment important customers or business associates."

posted by chris24 at 10:22 AM on November 23, 2017 [38 favorites]

And he was so scared of weighing anchor he only sailed on it once before it was taken.

Apparently Trump is not capable of appreciating that simple human pleasure after all. I should have known better before giving him the benefit of the doubt.
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:26 AM on November 23, 2017 [21 favorites]

Trump then served sandwiches.

I can find an objection to this; it's Thanksgiving...why are they eating fucking sandwiches?
posted by elsietheeel at 10:33 AM on November 23, 2017 [17 favorites]

The Trump yacht plays a part in my crackpot theory why he keeps saying that the Coast Guard brand is going up and up. He owned the yacht in the peak hookers and blow period of his life and in the nation's. Unlike holding a party at a hotel, a yacht can be boarded by the Coast Guard at any time for no reason whatsoever. The Coast Guard doesn't need probable cause to board your craft and search anywhere they please; they will tow you to port, impound your boat, and put you in jail if they find cocaine on board. So I think Trump was told no by his captain or his insurance or his bond company stooge because the Coast Guard wouldn't allow it.

It's a crackpot theory, but it meshes with how everything is personal for Trump and he seems not to have know that the Coast Guard is in the business of rescuing people until now.
posted by peeedro at 10:36 AM on November 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

From the coast guard speech: When we sell to other countries, even if they're allies you never know about an ally. An ally can turn. You're going to find that out.

I mean, he's not wrong about the problem with international arms sales. It's just, him saying something correct doesn't actually mean anything. It's like finding a well-formed response in the output from a Turing machine.
posted by Tsuga at 10:36 AM on November 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

It was also the yacht that the Queen song Kashoggi's Ship [youtube] was based on.

When it was delivered it had five decks, a disco, a cinema with seats for 12 and 2 double beds, 11 opulent suites, a helipad on top (its funnels are sloped outward to avoid interference with the helicopters), a pool with a water jet on top in front of the heliport, 2 Riva tenders, a crew of 48, a top speed of 20 knots, and cruising speed of 17.5 knots.

posted by Buntix at 10:37 AM on November 23, 2017

Happy Thanksgiving!

McClatchy: Exclusive: Manafort flight records show deeper Kremlin ties than previously known

Political guru Paul Manafort took at least 18 trips to Moscow and was in frequent contact with Vladimir Putin’s allies for nearly a decade as a consultant in Russia and Ukraine for oligarchs and pro-Kremlin parties.

Even after the February 2014 fall of Ukraine’s pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych, who won office with the help of a Manafort-engineered image makeover, the American consultant flew to Kiev another 19 times over the next 20 months while working for the smaller, pro-Russian Opposition Bloc party. Manafort went so far as to suggest the party take an anti-NATO stance, an Oppo Bloc architect has said. A key ally of that party leader, oligarch Viktor Medvedchuk, was identified by an earlier Ukrainian president as a former Russian intelligence agent, “100 percent.”

It was this background that Manafort brought to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign, which he joined in early 2016 and soon led. His web of connections to Russia-loyal potentates is now a focus of federal investigators.

Manafort’s flight records in and out of Ukraine, which McClatchy obtained from a government source in Kiev, and interviews with more than a dozen people familiar with his activities, including current and former government officials, suggest the links between Trump’s former campaign manager and Russia sympathizers run deeper than previously thought.

What’s now known leads some Russia experts to suspect that the Kremlin’s emissaries at times turned Manafort into an asset acting on Russia’s behalf. “You can make a case that all along he ...was either working principally for Moscow, or he was trying to play both sides against each other just to maximize his profits,” said Daniel Fried, a former assistant secretary of state who communicated with Manafort during Yanukovych’s reign in President George W. Bush’s second term.

“He’s at best got a conflict of interest and at worst is really doing Putin’s bidding,” said Fried, now a fellow with the Atlantic Council.

A central question for Justice Department Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller and several congressional committees is whether Manafort, in trying to boost Trump’s underdog campaign, in any way collaborated with Russia's cyber meddling aimed at improving Trump’s electoral prospects.

posted by chris24 at 10:45 AM on November 23, 2017 [50 favorites]

It's a Thanksgiving miracle!

This is how the Coast Guard speech started:

It is an honor to be here. I have to tell you, you know. The Coast Guard always respected, but if you're looking at it as a brand, there's no brand that went up more than the Coast Guard with what happened in Texas, and I would say in particular, Texas has been incredible. You saved 16,000 lives. Nobody knows that. 16,000 lives. In fact when I first heard the number, I said, you mean like 600? 500? 16,000 lives in Texas.

So as bad as that hurricane was, and that was bad one. That was a big water job, right? It kept coming in and going back they couldn't get rid of it. They'd never seen it. I guess it was the biggest water dump they've ever seen. But when you've got 16,000

That's how far I got. Then I watched The Infiltrator, starring Bryan Cranston and John Leguizamo. It was good, so thanks, Trump?
posted by Room 641-A at 10:57 AM on November 23, 2017 [10 favorites]

I know it's the ex-Coastie in me getting extra enraged, but the only people who have a problem with the Coast Guard's "brand" are polluters, drug smugglers and fucking human traffickers. You can undoubtedly find a few abuses of authority & whatnot in the CG's history, but try comparing that to just about any other law enforcement agency. The Coast Guard is seen more like firefighters than cops. Nobody hates firefighters.

But he wanted to cut the budget and he was blocked by Congress. He wants to ban transgender servicepeople and the head of the Coast Guard immediately stepped up with support for the trans Coasties he knew of -- legal support. He made an ass of himself at the Coast Guard Academy's graduation and nobody pretended otherwise. The fact is when it comes to the Coast Guard, Trump has faceplanted hard at every turn (and I'm very proud).

So the brand thing? Everyone said it was stupid when he said it the first time, but he can't back down. He can't admit he fucked up. Can't let it go. He had a chance to say it again here, so he did.

This asshole is going to flat-out say he colluded with Russia when the pressure is high enough. He'll use some other word but he'll say it and he'll be indignant that anyone thinks there's anything wrong with it.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:37 PM on November 23, 2017 [71 favorites]

AND I'LL BET EVERYBODY AT THAT STATION WHO HAD THE DAY OFF HAD TO COME IN TO SMILE AND NOD FOR THAT ASSHOLE.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:39 PM on November 23, 2017 [30 favorites]

AND EAT SANDWICHES.

I don't know why this annoys me so much. I love sandwiches. And the Coast Guard.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:50 PM on November 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

the only people who have a problem with the Coast Guard's "brand" are polluters, drug smugglers and fucking human traffickers.

Well, having grown up in Miami, for me the CG was always the face of the US's incredibly racist double-standard with regards to Haitian & Cuban refugees. So while I would never hold it against any service member for doing their job, I think I'd say it didn't do the CG "brand" any favors. But obviously this would be a feature for Trump, not a drawback.
posted by phearlez at 12:55 PM on November 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

16,000 lives. In fact when I first heard the number, I said, you mean like 600? 500?

"Yes, sir, only thirty times those numbers. What's—? Wait, no, I didn't say it WAS thirty. I said thirty TIMES five or six hundred, the number you said. Thirty TIMES five or six hundred is actually much more, about sixteen THOUSAND, not—oh, fuck it, you know what? I don't care if I did draw the short straw last week, I'm not watching this toddler today. Or any day. You there, Ensign—please shoot me right here, in the temple."
posted by Rykey at 1:03 PM on November 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

Basketball dad LaVar Ball, owner of Ball’s Big Baller Brand and father of basketball player LiAngelo Ball and Lakers point guard Lonzo Bal, that LaVar Ball, has reportedly benefited by the equivalent of $17 million of free advertising for Ball’s Big Baller Brand since Trump picked a public feud with Lavar Ball over his son LiAngelo Ball's release after a shoplifting charge in China while LiAngelo Ball was appearing with the UCLA Basketball team, otherwise unconnected with LaVar Ball's Ball’s Big Baller Brand.

Did I mention Ball’s Big Baller Brand yet? Balls.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:07 PM on November 23, 2017 [23 favorites]

A Split From Trump Indicates That Flynn Is Moving to Cooperate With Mueller
WASHINGTON — Lawyers for Michael T. Flynn, President Trump’s former national security adviser, notified the president’s legal team in recent days that they could no longer discuss the special counsel’s investigation, according to four people involved in the case, an indication that Mr. Flynn is cooperating with prosecutors or negotiating such a deal.
Mr. Flynn’s lawyers had been sharing information with Mr. Trump’s lawyers about the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who is examining whether anyone around Mr. Trump was involved in Russian efforts to undermine Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.
posted by PenDevil at 1:10 PM on November 23, 2017 [67 favorites]

This is how the Coast Guard speech started. . . .That's how far I got.

Dang, you missed the part where Trump told the Coasties about how good the stock market record high (that he's personally responsible for) was for their 401ks. [real]
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:30 PM on November 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

Metafilter: this is, indeed, a disturbing universe.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:39 PM on November 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

> A Split From Trump Indicates That Flynn Is Moving to Cooperate With Mueller

Ah. Now it feels like Thanksgiving.
posted by sebastienbailard at 2:14 PM on November 23, 2017 [53 favorites]

Why the Democrats or the Clinton campaign staff are not at least trying to do this is beyond me. I recognize that many are skeptical that this would work and note that it is without precedent, but lack of precedence is also an opening for trying this.

This really isn't that difficult to understand: the evidence for any Democratic effort to invalidate the 2016 election would have to appear to be completely impartial and widely accepted outside of the crazed Trump base. It is not, at least not yet.

Most Americans who only observe politics on a casual basis have a very firm idea that winning and losing elections is important, and take a dim view of attacking the electoral process or anything they consider to be sour grapes. The Scott Walker recall election in 2012 is really an excellent example: Walker was polling less popularly in 2012 than he was in 2010, when he narrowly won the governorship, but he improved both his raw vote numbers and his share of the vote in the 2012 recall election because a lot of people believed that the recall election was just Democrats refusing to accept their 2010 loss.

Just as with any charges from Mueller generally, any accusations of 2016 election tampering have to be absolutely ironclad in order to have a chance of success. They are not ironclad yet.
posted by mightygodking at 2:28 PM on November 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

A Split From Trump Indicates That Flynn Is Moving to Cooperate With Mueller

Maybe that explains this:

Nov. 17: Trump to Pay His Own Legal Bills, Set Up Fund to Cover Staff

Trump is only considering using is personal funds to pay for the legal bills of current and former White House aides, not people who served exclusively during the campaign. [...]

It’s unclear whether Trump’s offer extends to Michael Flynn, who was fired from his role as Trump’s national security adviser early in the administration.

Nov. 23: Trump won't pay for Mike Flynn's legal bills: Official

President Trump will not be paying for former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn's legal bills, a White House ethics official confirmed to CBS News.

posted by Room 641-A at 2:29 PM on November 23, 2017 [11 favorites]

16,000 lives. In fact when I first heard the number, I said, you mean like 600? 500?

Ludicrous. Everyone knows 24 is the highest number.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:34 PM on November 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

Josh Marshall: Good Lord, Trump is rage tweeting in the thread of Greg Sargent's thread about Trump's Racist Rage Tweeting. Holy Fuck.
posted by octothorpe at 2:41 PM on November 23, 2017 [8 favorites]

That is a lot trips to Russia. Don't you need to apply for a visa? Wouldn't this all be known by security services anyways?

Russia is a country where you can get a multi-year business visa (some places you can get them for up to ten years). I wouldn't call 18 trips a lot for someone with business or policy travel reasons to go there, except that Manafort has tried to downplay his Russian ties.
posted by dhartung at 2:44 PM on November 23, 2017

Richard Spencer Banned from 26 European countries! Howz that for white, northern European ambition?
posted by Oyéah at 3:03 PM on November 23, 2017 [47 favorites]

Exclusive: Manafort flight records show deeper Kremlin ties than previously known
BY PETER STONE AND GREG GORDON
NOVEMBER 27, 2017 05:00 AM

I've seen the future, baby -- it is murder.
posted by Capt. Renault at 3:17 PM on November 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

You gotta call the Coast Guard to handle the "big water jobs"
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:19 PM on November 23, 2017 [10 favorites]

More than a million pro-repeal Net Neutrality comments to the FCC were likely faked.

Textual analysis of the comments shows a LOT of skullduggery.

Key Findings:
One pro-repeal spam campaign used mail-merge to disguise 1.3 million comments as unique grassroots submissions.

There were likely multiple other campaigns aimed at injecting what may total several million pro-repeal comments into the system.

It’s highly likely that more than 99% of the truly unique comments were in favor of keeping net neutrality.
posted by Devonian at 3:22 PM on November 23, 2017 [61 favorites]

"big water job" is also what Trump requests from hookers
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:26 PM on November 23, 2017 [18 favorites]

I have no idea why, but the idea of Trump being afraid while on a moving boat makes me laugh harder than anything else so far.
posted by Melismata at 3:42 PM on November 23, 2017 [48 favorites]

Getting political on Thanksgiving is... a choice. Flynn news must be bothering him.

@realDonaldTrump:
ObamaCare premiums are going up, up, up, just as I have been predicting for two years. ObamaCare is OWNED by the Democrats, and it is a disaster. But do not worry. Even though the Dems want to Obstruct, we will Repeal & Replace right after Tax Cuts!
posted by chris24 at 3:50 PM on November 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

So, it's thanksgiving, and I'm slightly tootled while waiting for Turkey to rest, and I thought I'd share my coast guard story. Because I am thankful for them. When my son was five, he and I got got in a rip tide, on a paddleboard, and pulled into the shipping lanes. It was terrifying. I dislocated my knee, and had fallen off the board, without a life jacket. My five year old wasn't tied to the board, was just holding on. The sun was setting, and the coast was far enough away that people weren't distinguished. A shipping boat called us in to the coast guard, who rescued us, gave the Boy his own coast guard jacket, and set my knee.

So, thanks to the coast guard. Yay team.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 3:51 PM on November 23, 2017 [120 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump:
ObamaCare premiums are going up, up, up, just as I have been predicting for two years. ObamaCare is OWNED by the Democrats, and it is a disaster. But do not worry. Even though the Dems want to Obstruct, we will Repeal & Replace right after Tax Cuts!

*sigh*

Poll: 60 percent to blame Trump, GOP for ObamaCare problems
posted by leotrotsky at 4:49 PM on November 23, 2017 [34 favorites]

Does he know its Thanksgiving? Should he be rage tweeting awful things on the most American of National Holidays?
posted by Justinian at 5:56 PM on November 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

Does he know its Thanksgiving? Should he be rage tweeting awful things on the most American of National Holidays?

Come on, what are the odds Donnie Two Scoops ever been thankful for anything?
posted by leotrotsky at 6:01 PM on November 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

He's mad we're not thankful enough of him.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:07 PM on November 23, 2017 [9 favorites]

From the coast guard speech: When we sell to other countries, even if they're allies you never know about an ally. An ally can turn. You're going to find that out.

@BillKristol
I was speculating earlier today when I cited Michael Flynn as a possible example of this proposition—but in light of the news about Flynn’s lawyer calling Trump’s, I do wonder if Trump had Flynn on his mind this morning when he said this.
posted by chris24 at 6:12 PM on November 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

The Adam Serwer piece linked above is superb.
posted by dmh at 6:19 PM on November 23, 2017 [5 favorites]

From Norm Eisen, former US Ambassador to Czech Republic, former White House Ethics Czar under Obama, on Twitter

I negotiated a cooperation deal for a target with Mueller's office when he was US Atty and lemme tell ya, he's not gonna give one to Flynn unless he implicates someone up the ladder. That means Kushner, Don Jr., or Big Daddy. They are all having indigestion tonight.

Gotta say, the frisson of pleasure I felt when I read that was glorious.
posted by vac2003 at 6:32 PM on November 23, 2017 [86 favorites]

One of Seth Abramson's epic Twitter threads (75 long plus postcripts) is up; a systematic, well-referenced, knowledgeable, blow-by-blow discussion of how Trump and Putin engaged in quid-pro-quo re Trump Tower Moscow and the 2016 election and how Putin obtained kompromat on Trump. He argues that the media is well behind on this one, and I quote:

"But where we are today is that network/cable TV outlets, news websites, and newspapers are either a) waiting for politicians to issue selective leaks from a deliberately crappy investigation, or b) waiting for crappy leaks from a deliberate and professional FBI investigation."

It's well worth a read. At times funny too:

"I hope you'll consider that conspiracy theories are deeply stupid—but criminal conspiracies are a real thing that people like me work on (as attorneys or investigators) and a particularly dumb criminal conspiracy, like this one, at first looks like mere conspiracy theory."

posted by Peach at 6:38 PM on November 23, 2017 [14 favorites]

Meant to link to Twitter thread, sorry:
posted by Peach at 7:34 PM on November 23, 2017 [3 favorites]

Abramson is really getting out on a limb there. He's either gonna look prescient or like Louise Mensch's more slow-burning twin.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 PM on November 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

Philadelphia's mayor, in a press conference about Trump ending TPS for Haitians and other immigrants, said:

"There is no compassion whatsoever in the White House. I'm just beside myself with sadness because our president is a bully, our president is a punk, and he just doesn't get it. ... I don't know where he was raised, but his family didn't do a good job raising that guy."

Sometimes I just love my city.
posted by mcduff at 7:47 PM on November 23, 2017 [91 favorites]

Is there a non-82-tweets-storm version? Because I'm not taking it seriously if Abramson can't be bothered to publish like an actual essay somewhere.
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:49 PM on November 23, 2017 [7 favorites]

If it's any consolation I'm gonna put my marker down on "Louise Mensch's slow-burning twin", tivalasvegas.
posted by Justinian at 7:55 PM on November 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

Is there a non-82-tweets-storm version? Because I'm not taking it seriously if Abramson can't be bothered to publish like an actual essay somewhere.

Here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/933582030327177216

I agree it'd be more pleasant to read in 560-character chunks.
posted by sebastienbailard at 7:58 PM on November 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

This a fever dream of a thread, but Abramson's frenzied earnestness is entertaining.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:11 PM on November 23, 2017 [1 favorite]

You know how you do a connect-the-dots puzzle and your brain wants to connect the dots that are closest instead of following the numbers? Abramson just connects the closest dots. He ends up with a bunch of lines. No picture.
posted by perhapses at 8:17 PM on November 23, 2017 [6 favorites]

NB that NC has the fastest-growing Latino population in the entire US (smallest Catholic population by percentage -- 3%, less than Alaska! And a smaller cathedral than Alaska! -- and also the fastest-growing Catholic population due to Latino migrants.)

60% of the state's population growth comes from in-migrants. It is the ONLY state with more inbound movers than internal growth for every year in the last decade. (The Yankees are the most popular baseball team in NC, appallingly.) They totally DO give a damn how you did it up north, because a huge percentage of the state is Yankees, and another huge percentage is Mexicans.

If you're not allergic, it's a lovely place to live, and a great place to help flip blue! It's so close! You can flip it in a couple years and feel very accomplished! But people are super-nice, you have lots of super-sophisticated and worldly neighbors (even in fairly small towns), the small towns are very tight-knit in the good way, and fewer people are armed than you'd think.
posted by Eyebrows McGee

Eyebrows, I'm gonna need soooo many cites for this.

North Carolina is great in a lot of ways, sure. But this picture you have painted of a worldly population comprised of immigrants and sophisticated people with not too many guns and what not is....not really true.

Yes, North Carolina had a long stretch of high latino immigration - and for a while was at the top. That's shifted to other states in the south and elsewhere since 2000 though. South Dakota, Maryland, and Arkansas among others have higher growth rates than North Carolina.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say with the stats on Catholics, but it reads as a selling point for Northerners? It doesn't really matter.. But a third of North Carolinian religious folks are Southern Baptists. That's pretty goddamn problematic for the worldly yankee types your comment seems to be advertising to. I should know, I left there to get away from a lot of them.

Yep, there's a bunch of Yankees fans in North Carolina - but that doesn't really mean anything because mostly no one gives a shit about baseball in North Carolina. They don't even have a major league team. NASCAR is the state sport, and the most popular, followed by college basketball (the ACC conference is life, with Duke and UNC and Wake Forest) and then college football. So saying that a huge percentage is Yankees is kinda meaningless. Also, saying that a huge percentage is Mexican is....just wrong. Only about 9% of the state identifies as hispanic (ranking 11th in the country, which isn't bad I guess?), and that's spread out among more than just Mexico. So I don't know what you mean when you say that.

41.3% of North Carolinians are gun owners, enough to put them in the High category (though not Extremely High) of gun ownership.

Small towns in North Carolina are tight knit, sure, and reliably pretty shitty. Sure, you can camp out in Charlotte, areas of the Research Triangle or Asheville. But the idea that the average small town in North Carolina is some welcoming worldly sophisticated place is....wrong.

Yes, it can be flipped. We did it in 2008, and it's been fairly close in other Presidential elections since. It's a battleground state for sure. But I do need to push back on the picture you've painted there. Even outside crunchy liberal artsy Asheville, the KKK still marches regularly. It's still the South. And it still (mostly) sucks for liberals.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:25 PM on November 23, 2017 [32 favorites]

This asshole is going to flat-out say he colluded with Russia when the pressure is high enough. He'll use some other word but he'll say it and he'll be indignant that anyone thinks there's anything wrong with it.

"Did you order the Collusion Red?" "You're goddamn right I did!"

I have no idea why, but the idea of Trump being afraid while on a moving boat makes me laugh harder than anything else so far.

Something tells me he doesn't have a nautical-themed Pashmina Afghan.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:51 PM on November 23, 2017 [2 favorites]

MetaFilter: more pleasant to read in 560-character chunks.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:51 PM on November 23, 2017 [4 favorites]

Just as with any charges from Mueller generally, any accusations of 2016 election tampering have to be absolutely ironclad in order to have a chance of success. They are not ironclad yet.

The thing is, though, even an ironclad legal case with ironclad evidence is not going to mean anything to a lot of Americans. In fact, a certain percentage of trump's fans are just going to double down harder on their beliefs if incontrovertible evidence comes out. Rush Limbaugh will tell them that the CIA doctored that piss tape, that Obama preemptively ordered the NSA to create those fake audio transcripts. A certain percentage of Trumpists will nod ruefully. They'll know that Trump was on their side and he just wanted to do his job, but the CIA and the Beltway insiders were set against him all along.

A certain percentage of Americans has been successfully inoculated against reality. American democracy hinges on how high that percentage rises.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 10:08 PM on November 23, 2017 [35 favorites]

Trump Greets Thanksgiving With an Unhealthy Serving of Xenophobia. Trump’s cruelty toward Haitian refugees is his latest affront to American values.
posted by homunculus at 11:20 PM on November 23, 2017 [10 favorites]

Thank all of you ITT for helping me bring receipts for the last... omg i just argued for five hours.

Tequila!
posted by BS Artisan at 11:54 PM on November 23, 2017 [12 favorites]

I only had to employ the simultaneous tongue-bite-while-deftly-changing-the-subject thing three times at today’s family get-together. It went much smoother than our Memorial Day dinner.

*lifts a glass to all who weathered family meals with the opposition party today*
posted by darkstar at 12:03 AM on November 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

Do you remember a few scaramuccis ago when he complained they weren't grateful enough. I mean the basketball players, they shoplifted something and were stuck in a Chinese prison. By his grace and mercy, they were set free.

This is Trump's thanksgiving. Aren't you glad you're not in prison? Thank me for that.
posted by adept256 at 1:53 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

We're taking "Ignore crazy, racist grandpa" way too far. He needs to be in a home.
posted by mikelieman at 2:01 AM on November 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

Folks, if you're going to one conference this year, make sure it's Student Action Summit 2017.
posted by PenDevil at 4:03 AM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

West Palm Beach? Obviously Mar-A-Lago.
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:19 AM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Student Action Summit 2017

I do feel sorry for the graphic designer: okay, we’ll set up a grid with first and last na.... *shakes fist at Governor Scott Walker* I also wouldn’t want to be them when Bannon and Gorka call to find out why they’re listed on the bottom row. Aaand I’m also not convinced that someone didn’t mix up Dennis Prager and Hugh Hewitt. In the end, I did not enjoy being a graphic designer.
posted by Room 641-A at 4:43 AM on November 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

@PreetBharara
This is interesting news about Michael Flynn. If you're dead to rights, flipping on others and cooperating with the prosecution is the only sane and rational move. Also, prosecutors accept cooperation only if you can provide "substantial assistance." Higher up in the food chain. Stay tuned...
posted by chris24 at 5:19 AM on November 24, 2017 [27 favorites]

@JuliusGoat
Trump's rage-tweeting at @ThePlumLineGS's tweet about how Trump rage-tweets is a gorgeous dark gem, a perfectly-constructed oroboros of unfitness. The fun thing about saying "Make America Great Again" is that there is literally no time in our past you can be referencing that wouldn't be more systemically unfair against all people who aren't white men. That's what I like about #MAGA is what a clarifier it is. It *has* to be understood as racist, sexist, ablest, and homophobic. There's no other way to understand it. People of color, LGBT people, disabled people, and allies have no trouble understanding #MAGA for what it is. Meanwhile it will take only a brief stroll through the twitter feed of anybody who uses it favorably to convince you that's how they understand it as well. And in case you didn't get the message they staked their ideology symbolically precisely where you'd think. Defending the perceived heroism of Robert E Lee. There have been, I'm sure, other nations who have raised up men to fight for the cause of human enslavement. You just don't see statues angrily raised in their honor is all.

Donald Trump is personally offended at wealthy black athletes specifically because they so flagrantly refuse to be property when it seems so obviously proper to him that they should. Donald Trump, I've realized, has a well-developed sense of right and wrong. It's just twisted into something both monsterous and identical to that of millions of white Americans. Donald Trump, like many white Americans, finds it very offensive to his sense of right and wrong that black people should fail in their responsibility to be property. Even worse to his sense of right and wrong is that black people, having been allowed to not be property by a benevolent white society, should ever fail to be grateful for this largesse. "Make America Great Again" is a statement of morality, as clear as any creed or slogan ever devised. As clear as "Blood and soil." As clear as "One people, one country, one leader." The person telling you to Make America Great Again is telling you exactly what they think is good and bad. The person ignoring it is telling you they are willing to not care, because they think they will benefit from it. Don't be afraid to offend such a person. Don't fail to defend the people they are clearly informing you they intend to target.

Yesterday I posted a response to one of Trump nonsense tweets. (I know, I know. I'm weak.) Turns out it was about 2 minutes after it had gone up, so it got seen. A lot. The MAGA crowd had some ideas for me. They all involved me and people who think like me effectively not existing. "Leave the country" was popular. "Kill yourself" had traction. Some were just looking forward to a mass destruction. It's what they want. We should believe people who say "Make America Great Again" and we should translate it for them when they say it. So they know we know.
posted by chris24 at 5:41 AM on November 24, 2017 [133 favorites]

Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
If his administration gets rid of #NetNeutrality, Trump can tell his supporters to purchase internet service from a provider that blocks your network

His name hasn’t come up in a while, but Mariotti is a good twitter follow. Former federal procescutor who adds nuance to the news stories. Here’s his take on the Flynn news (twitter thread, sorry.) Caveat: he’s running for IL AG so there are some campaign tweets and a handful of fundraising tweets.

Richard W. Painter
@RWPUSA
Not sure why Clinton isn't running for a House seat. Dems could elect her Speaker. Then .....
posted by Room 641-A at 6:23 AM on November 24, 2017 [28 favorites]

Oops, that Mariotti tweet was a reply to CNN’s Jim Acosta, hence “your network.”
posted by Room 641-A at 6:38 AM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

‘Keep coming at me guys!!!’: Donald Trump Jr. meets Russia scrutiny with defiance

Okay. We will!

There's a buried nugget of terror in an otherwise bland article, though:

Others who know Trump Jr. see grander ambitions. He is “more of a politician than his father,” said Louise Sunshine, a former Trump Organization executive who has known the Trump kids since they were born. “Donald was a businessman . . . but Donald Trump Jr. is making it his business to be a politician.”

We do NOT need this guy to be Dubya #2.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:41 AM on November 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

Usual pedantry that the Speaker does not technically have to be an elected House member.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:46 AM on November 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Jr will never be a successful politician. He lives in NYC and is despised as much or more than his father and will never win a NYC or NY state election.

And for national ambitions, he's just as hated without any of the supposed charisma of Sr. If he escapes prison, he'll live off grift, both Trumpian and RWNJ, for the rest of his life.

I hope he dreams of more so they can be crushed.
posted by chris24 at 6:47 AM on November 24, 2017 [12 favorites]

Noah Lanard: Republicans Are Sneaking Right-Wing Social Policies Into Their Corporate Tax Cut

Fetuses don’t file 1040s in April, but they still appear in both Republican tax bills. The reason is simple: giving corporations a massive tax cut is great; doing that while advancing the culture war is even better.

“Unborn children” are not the only ones who are singled out in one, or both, of the House and Senate tax bills. Tucked in amid changes to tax rates are provisions that target undocumented immigrants, preachers, and graduate students. It doesn’t take too much familiarity with Republicans’ priorities to guess whether each of those groups wins or loses.

Overall, the provisions are largely incidental to saving or spending money in the Republicans’ $1.5 trillion tax cut, though they do manage to add significant complexity to the tax code. Taken together, the changes show how Republicans are using tax reform to push through long-standing priorities that would be difficult to pass as standalone bills.

posted by zombieflanders at 6:59 AM on November 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

but Donald Trump Jr. is making it his business to be a politician.”

He's also making it his business to be a race-car driver, a jedi and an astronaut
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:59 AM on November 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

The Navy, I can tell you, we're ordering ships, with the Air Force i can tell you we're ordering a lot of planes, in particular the F-35 fighter jet, which is like almost like an invisible fighter. I was asking the Air Force guys, I said, how good is this plane? They said, well, sir, you can't see it. I said but in a fight. You know, in a fight, like I watch on the movies. The fight, they're fighting. How good is this? They say, well, it wins every time because the enemy cannot see it. Even if it's right next to them, it can't see it. I said that helps. That's a good thing.
He thinks the F-35 is literally invisible. Like Wonder Woman's plane. For [real].

Interestingly though, Trump accidentally asked a legitimate question about a problematic aspect of the F-35. It is predicted to be a dogfight loser against other state of the art fighters because it is so compromised by its multi-use design. It's expected sub-par performance is ostensibly excused by the belief that it's superior electronics will keep it from ever having to actually dogfight. Which is incredibly optimistic thinking about the evolution of electronic counter-measures by possible opponents.

Between the F-35 and aircraft carrier development the US is putting a lot of treasure into equipping their military with tools that any realistic observer can see will be dangerously obsolete before development is even finished. Unlike the Soviet Union, the Unites States doesn't appear to need a credible superpower enemy to goad them into ridiculous overspends on absurd military tech to the detriment of their non-weapon economy.
posted by srboisvert at 7:40 AM on November 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

WaPo, States prepare to shut down children’s health programs if Congress doesn’t act

Officials in nearly a dozen states are preparing to notify families that a crucial health insurance program for low-income children is running out of money for the first time since its creation two decades ago, putting coverage for many at risk by the end of the year.

Congress missed a Sept. 30 deadline to extend funding for CHIP, as the Children’s Health Insurance Program is known. Nearly 9 million youngsters and 370,000 pregnant women nationwide receive care because of it.

Many states have enough money to keep their individual programs afloat for at least a few months, but five could run out in late December if lawmakers do not act. Others will start to exhaust resources the following month.

Keep calling for net neutrality, but please, please call Congress and demand they reauthorize CHIP. Whether we take care of 9 million children or just decide not to for no particular reason is a damn stark portrayal of who we are as a society.
posted by zachlipton at 7:48 AM on November 24, 2017 [50 favorites]

I was asking the Air Force guys, I said, how good is this plane? They said, well, sir, you can't see it. I said but in a fight. You know, in a fight, like I watch on the movies.

Top Gun President
posted by zakur at 7:49 AM on November 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

Politico: Pressure mounts to unmask Hill harassers - Lawmakers in both parties say members of Congress shouldn't be allowed to use taxpayer money to settle harassment claims without being named.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:21 AM on November 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump
Will be speaking to President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey this morning about bringing peace to the mess that I inherited in the Middle East. I will get it all done, but what a mistake, in lives and dollars (6 trillion), to be there in the first place!


@renato_mariotti
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
Interesting timing, because we heard yesterday that a Turkish agent (Michael Flynn) appears to be cooperating with Mueller.
posted by chris24 at 8:31 AM on November 24, 2017 [39 favorites]

Pressure mounts to unmask Hill harassers - Lawmakers in both parties say members of Congress shouldn't be allowed to use taxpayer money to settle harassment claims without being named.

FTFY Lawmakers.
posted by VTX at 8:37 AM on November 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

For the first time literally ever, I reported a hate meme spewing Twitter bot (name + seven random numbers, definitely a bot) and they actually put the account in Twitter jail. I feel mad with power! I might spend the rest of my day off on a reporting binge. First stop, @realDonaldTrump.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:03 AM on November 24, 2017 [53 favorites]

@jack cries a single tear.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:24 AM on November 24, 2017

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Donald Trump to Americans: Go incorporate yourself

Some weeks I just want to give it all up and become a large corporation.

Being a human has only been a source of pain and inconvenience. I require periodic food and water. After a few days of subsisting entirely on coffee, I start to become nervous and irritable. I cannot stay awake indefinitely. I have to exist in the physical world, which means that I am never the right temperature, and that I sometimes have to stand in lines. I bang my head on low doorways. People yell at me when I walk down the sidewalk.

Corporations exist in the minds and hearts of Americans and, I guess, were the Founders’ truest darlings. They are people, my friend, but without the disadvantages. You cannot prick them. They do not bleed. But if you wrong them, they can revenge. Theirs is an ideal situation, really.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:31 AM on November 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

At this point I'm pretty sure Teh Donald isn't aware that people are saying "collusion" and not "Klyushin." So when he denies collusion with the Russians, he's just saying Klyushin wasn't the mastermind.

I suspect every time he says "NO COLLUSION!" it's immediately followed by "Putin," but people think he's just coughing or stuttering, so he gets misquoted every time. No wonder he's so pissed at the media.

It's very clear at this point the run for President was just to get Putin's approval for his now-failed project in Moscow and he didn't expect to win the primary, much less the general. He was probably genuinely shocked and maybe even appalled that the Russians and the operatives they surrounded him with actually pulled it off.

Everything since has just been him doing whatever he thinks will keep himself out of prison and not murdered by Russians after he leaves office (or even while in it..would anyone be surprised if he dropped dead of a heart attack tomorrow given that his diet is shittier than mine, which says something)

He probably is a legitimately an authoritarian, but I'm pretty sure the way over the top act is just to keep the Republicans happy so they'll protect him from the Russia thing and to keep the public looking elsewhere so they don't hear about the evidence piling up.

As far as Abramson's tweet storm goes, most everything was sourced aside from the few points he said news orgs are sitting on, which aren't themselves lynchpins in his hypothesis. He didn't fail to connect the dots. Whoever said that failed to read the linked pieces. He provided dots and referred us to others who had already connected them.

One interesting thing I learned from his links and some of their sources is that while it's apparently true Donnie wasn't participating in the pee play directly, the entire point of the exercise was to watch call girls pissing on the bed Obama had previously slept in. That is sufficiently juvenile and in character that it's quite believable. That said, we haven't heard what's on the other tape from St. Petersburg. Either way, the 2013-2016 reporting make it very clear they are hiding something shady, whether it's directly related to the election or not.

It's just sad for little Trumpy that Putin finally realized what a fuckup he really is and lost his hotel deal because he couldn't keep his fucking mouth shut. At least Putin is still getting the other thing he wanted: chaos, so the Trump family isn't in immediate danger, though probably wishing he had gotten what he expected..a kneecapped Hillary Clinton in the Oval Office.

Trump is dumb enough to go off the rails and bite the hand that's feeding him. If it comes down to prison or doing something Russia really wouldn't like to "prove" he's not in bed with Putin, I can't see Trump picking prison. Hillary would have been a lot more predictable than a cornered Donald Trump.
posted by wierdo at 12:10 PM on November 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

NYT: Why Putin’s Foes Deplore U.S. Fixation on Election Meddling

“The Kremlin is of course very proud of this whole Russian interference story. It shows they are not just a group of old K.G.B. guys with no understanding of digital but an almighty force from a James Bond saga,” Mr. Volkov said in a telephone interview. “This image is very bad for us. Putin is not a master geopolitical genius.”

Mr. Volkov and others say they have no doubt that Russia did interfere, at least on the margins, in last year’s presidential election campaign. But they complain that the United States consistently inflates Mr. Putin’s impact and portrays his government as far more unified and effective than it really is, cementing his legacy and making him harder to challenge at home.

Ultimately, they say, Americans are using Russia as a scapegoat to explain the deep political discord in the United States. That has left many westward-leaning Russians, who have long looked to America for their ideals, in bitter disappointment that the United States seems to be mimicking some of their own country’s least appealing traits.

The hunt for a hidden Russian hand behind President Trump’s election victory has caused particular disquiet among liberal-minded Russian journalists.

“The image of Putin’s Russia constructed by Western and, above all, American media outlets over the past 18 months shocks even the most anti-Putin reader in Russia,” Oleg V. Kashin, a journalist critical of the Kremlin, wrote last week in Republic, a Russian news site. He complained that the American media has consistently misconstrued the way Russia works, presenting marginal opportunists and self-interested businessmen with no real link to the Kremlin as state-controlled agents working on orders from Mr. Putin.

posted by Apocryphon at 12:19 PM on November 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

there can be idiots all over, no problem
posted by mumimor at 12:26 PM on November 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:07 PM on November 24, 2017

He probably is a legitimately an authoritarian, but I'm pretty sure the way over the top act is just to keep the Republicans happy so they'll protect him from the Russia thing and to keep the public looking elsewhere so they don't hear about the evidence piling up

Trump has been agitating for the State to express contempt for the suffering of minorities since he was baying for the deaths of the Central Park Five.
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:14 PM on November 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Seth Abramson's bona fides.
posted by Peach at 1:20 PM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's not a complete loon like Mensch and Taylor but that doesn't make him correct. Remember, the more you want something to be true the more skeptically you should look at it. And people really, really want what he says to be true.
posted by Justinian at 1:24 PM on November 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

“This image is very bad for us. Putin is not a master geopolitical genius.”

Putin doesn't have to be a master geopolitical genius. He just has to out-wit the Trump Crime Family.
posted by mikelieman at 1:25 PM on November 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

The interview on Preet Bharara's podcast with Bill Browder gave some insight into Putin as fundamentally a mobster who is enriching himself; what stood out to me also was Browder's comment that Russia is incredibly bureaucratic and wedded to following procedures. And that Browder, like many, really wanted to do business in Russia. (He also said something like "in terms of its economy, Russia is basically Italy.")

No, Abramson's not a complete loon, nor is he necessarily correct (nor do I want it to be true that Trump colluded with Putin). But there were plenty of things in that tweetstorm that were food for thought.
posted by Peach at 1:30 PM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

Putin may not be a "genius" geopolitician, but that doesn't mean he isn't utilizing the tools of his state to engage in protracted psychological warfare against other states. When the Ukraine crisis happened there was a massive amount of Russian fake news/propaganda flooding into the country, to the point where they ended up banning Russian news for a bit. There was even a TV show called StopFake that broadcasted numerous lies the Russian media was peddling over there, a significant chunk of it being about persecution against Russians. You can read about it from NPR here. RT consistently posted fake news about Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, something that shouldn't be a "fake news" article, but was.

On top of all this, the dismissal of hacking efforts and espionage amongst members of the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence agents is ridiculous. We know for a fact that Russia hacked not only the DNC, but they got into the RNC as well, they just chose not to release that information. As for espionage, it was multiple European intelligence agencies that gave us the tip-off about Russian intelligence contacts with the Trump campaign back in 2015, not the US intelligence agencies, so it's preposterous to me that the US intel agencies are thrown to the wolves when we weren't even the original ones finding this shit out.

We also haven't gotten the full story yet. I don't think Putin is a geopolitical genius either, but that doesn't make these circumstances less treacherous.
posted by gucci mane at 1:41 PM on November 24, 2017 [15 favorites]

Trump getting elected proves that Putin isn’t a genius. Everything would have been much better for everyone if Clinton had won, especially for Putin. She would have been weakened and democratic norms would have been questioned, but not enough to truly investigate. Now everyone is looking at Putin and asking questions and all he has to show for it is Donny two scoops, twittler in chief.
posted by Glibpaxman at 1:51 PM on November 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

Ultimately, they say, Americans are using Russia as a scapegoat to explain the deep political discord in the United States.

None of this would have happened without the deep, seething racism and sexism all over the United States. Conversely, the Russian government did interfere. We're in a new Cold War and have been for some time. Unfortunately, fighting it is gonna have to start with the damage done here.

So yeah, the problems are to be found in the US, and yeah, Putin fucked with us. All of these things are true and all of them are serious threats.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 1:51 PM on November 24, 2017 [30 favorites]

Everything would have been much better for everyone if Clinton had won, especially for Putin

I couldn't possibly disagree with this more.
posted by Justinian at 1:56 PM on November 24, 2017 [10 favorites]

Marcy Wheeler (@emptywheel): The Dumb Ass Poker Faces in the White House Just Admitted Their Investigation Coincides with Mike Flynn's

Confirming to the press that Flynn pulled out of the joint defense agreement involves confirming that the White House had a joint defense agreement with his lawyers. And that entails confirming that the President is being targeted in matters closely tied to Flynn’s own actions.

Thus far, the crimes Flynn is most publicly being accused of — largely relating to his unreported influence peddling, for both Turkey and Russia — don’t necessarily impact Trump. Given the details that have thus far been made public, those actions could just reflect his own greed, not any overt work with Trump to implement the policies he promised to the Turks he would deliver. Indeed, there’d be little need for Flynn’s lawyers to work with Trump’s if that were the only criminal charges he was facing.

But now several Trump lawyers are on the record saying they viewed themselves as targeted by the same investigation as Flynn is. Which means (unsurprisingly) Trump was probably in the loop on Flynn’s influence peddling. And which also means Flynn’s discussions with Sergei Kislyak about sanctions relief — and his lies about them to the FBI — directly implicate Trump. That’s the stuff that would justify a joint defense agreement, and that’s the stuff the White House just confirmed by confirming the no longer operative joint defense agreement.

In spite of all the claims that Trump isn’t being investigated, Trump’s lawyers have just admitted that they have been treating Flynn’s criminal exposure as related to the President’s own.

posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:57 PM on November 24, 2017 [57 favorites]

Donny with the preemptive breakup. "I... am breaking up... with you."

@realDonaldTrump
Time Magazine called to say that I was PROBABLY going to be named “Man (Person) of the Year,” like last year, but I would have to agree to an interview and a major photo shoot. I said probably is no good and took a pass. Thanks anyway!
posted by chris24 at 2:54 PM on November 24, 2017 [17 favorites]

You know damn well he wasn't going to be named Person of the Year twice in a row. Come on man. Have some dignity.
posted by Justinian at 2:56 PM on November 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Person of the Year is an annual issue of the United States news magazine Time that features and profiles a person, a group, an idea, or an object that "for better or for worse... has done the most to influence the events of the year".

Despite the magazine's frequent statements to the contrary, the designation is often regarded as an honor, and spoken of as an award or prize, simply based on many previous selections of admirable people. However, Time magazine points out that controversial figures such as Adolf Hitler (1938), Joseph Stalin (1939 and 1942), Nikita Khrushchev (1957), and Ayatollah Khomeini (1979) have also been granted the title for their impacts.

It's not necessarily an honor, Donny.
posted by elsietheeel at 3:07 PM on November 24, 2017 [11 favorites]

I really want Time Magazine to just reply "No, we didn't." in a tweet.
posted by jferg at 3:26 PM on November 24, 2017 [16 favorites]

"Man (Person)". In light of recent events, I guess that parenthetical is a necessary qualifier.
posted by dis_integration at 3:28 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Donny has quite the fixation with Time.

2012
@realDonaldTrump
I knew last year that @TIME Magazine lost all credibility when they didn't include me in their Top 100...

2013
@realDonaldTrump
"@PatrickMendezNV: They're going to make you their @TIME person of the year in attempt to silence you. They are not smart enough to do that

@realDonaldTrump
"@PatrickMendezNV: We had a great exchange on Twitter re: you being snubbed for @TIME person of the year,@realDonaldTrump. Time=no guts!

2014
@realDonaldTrump
"@fackinpeter: I don't care what @Time says, @realDonaldTrump is my person of the year"

2015
@realDonaldTrump
I told you @TIME Magazine would never pick me as person of the year despite being the big favorite They picked person who is ruining Germany

@realDonaldTrump
Thank you @oreillyfactor for your wonderful editorial as to why I should have been @TIME Magazine's Person of the Year. You should run Time!

---

And this doesn't count the fake Time covers he had hanging in his golf clubs.
posted by chris24 at 3:36 PM on November 24, 2017 [19 favorites]

Also Nixon won two years in a row (1971 and 1972) so actually, given their ever increasing number of similarities, I think Trump SHOULD win it this year.
posted by elsietheeel at 4:08 PM on November 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

Continually impressed with how his personality truly mirrors that of Mussolini.

Trump has the classic mentality for a dictator: pathologically narcissistic, antisocial personality disorder. It’s only our bureaucracy and a shaky plurality of opposition in Congress that’s preventing him from completely metastasizing.

It’s truly alarming to contemplate.
posted by darkstar at 4:12 PM on November 24, 2017 [13 favorites]

Also I think he's very stupid.
posted by Justinian at 4:14 PM on November 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

This could be interesting. The CFPB announced one person will be their head, the White House has announced another.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:57 PM on November 24, 2017 [9 favorites]

CFPB directorship succession analysis from Georgetown law professor Adam Levitin:

Bottom line: any appointment of Mick Mulvaney ... or Steve Mnuchin ... or anyone by President Trump to be acting CFPB Director would be illegal, and would call into question not only any actions taken by the CFPB, but also actions undertaken by the FDIC and FSOC, as the CFPB Director serves on those boards. If President Trump wants to choose the CFPB Director, there's a straight-forward way of doing it: go through Senate confirmation.

More from the Intercept, There's a hitch in Trump's plan to stick Mick Mulvaney on the CFPB: it's illegal.
posted by peeedro at 5:09 PM on November 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

Is it possible our politics are so dysfunctional that we don’t know whether a government agency is headed by a person who supports the mission of the agency, or by a completely different person who wants to destroy the agency? (Yes!)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 5:28 PM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

And who is going to prosecute the President for yet another illegal thing he's done?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:53 PM on November 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

TIME Magazine tweets: "The President is incorrect about how we choose Person of the Year. TIME does not comment on our choice until publication, which is December 6."
posted by mcduff at 5:55 PM on November 24, 2017 [58 favorites]

I understand Trump demanded Time rescind one of Obama's Person of the Year covers as a precondition to be named again this year.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 5:55 PM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

I hope that whoever is chosen is someone who for whatever reason will drive the man batty. So many choices available. Not like it's super hard.

*This is the only year that I have ever spent more than a split second wondering who Time would pick.
posted by Jalliah at 6:14 PM on November 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

They certainly did not contact me ahead of 2006's Person of the Year issue, much less give me the option to turn it down.
posted by ckape at 6:16 PM on November 24, 2017 [22 favorites]

Please be Colin Kaepernick
posted by Twain Device at 6:18 PM on November 24, 2017 [79 favorites]

#MeToo would also be a great choice.
posted by perhapses at 6:22 PM on November 24, 2017 [29 favorites]

Honestly he probably already considers every pick from 1946-2015 to be a personal affront.
posted by ckape at 6:22 PM on November 24, 2017 [1 favorite]

In third place is Robert Mueller.
posted by maxwelton at 6:23 PM on November 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

In third place is Robert Mueller.

He's 2018.
posted by chris24 at 6:27 PM on November 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

They're saving Mueller in case Trump is forced to resign or is impeached next year. That's when Mueller would get it.
posted by Justinian at 6:28 PM on November 24, 2017 [5 favorites]

They could just do 'Women' and that would be enough.
posted by Jalliah at 6:29 PM on November 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

I want them to name Hillary Clinton just to make Trump's head explode. But if I were them I would pick Putin.
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:31 PM on November 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

It definitely should be the Resistance, with an article that credits women, especially women of color and older women in red states, with their really central role in resisting the Trump agenda.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:34 PM on November 24, 2017 [31 favorites]

Probably the one which would give him an infarct for real: McConnell or any other person he thinks he owns.
posted by maxwelton at 6:35 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Tillerson's senior team planning to skip Ivanka Trump's India trip

Multiple State Department officials, as well as a source close to the White House, have told CNN Tillerson's decision not to send senior State Department officials to this year's Global Entrepreneurship Summit, being held in India next week, is not related to his key project of slashing the Department's budget, and is more to do with the fact Ivanka Trump is leading the US delegation this year. Trump was invited by Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi in June, and this year's theme is supporting women entrepreneurs.

The State Department puts on the large yearly event, which Secretary of State John Kerry and even President Obama attended multiple times. But this year, according to one senior State Department official: "No one higher than the deputy assistant secretary is allowed to participate. The secretary and his top staff have insisted on approving all travel-- even the most minute details."

just to make Trump's head explode

Bannon.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:38 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

Or just send him a set of steak knives.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:41 PM on November 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

They could just do 'Women' and that would be enough.

American women were 1975, but I think it's definitely time for women in general. Especially after this year.
posted by elsietheeel at 6:43 PM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Little Rocket Man of the Year.
posted by peeedro at 6:45 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Hill: "BREAKING: Time Magazine ripped President Trump's claim that the magazine told him he would "probably" be selected as "Person of the Year," with a top executive calling the claim "total BS.""
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:45 PM on November 24, 2017 [21 favorites]

He's probably already pissed that he didn't get named People's Sexiest Man Alive.

The only comparable choice to Trump for this year is Rick of 'Rick & Morty'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:48 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

How does he decide to make up these lies?
posted by perhapses at 6:56 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

I want it to be James Comey just for the resulting shitfit.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 6:56 PM on November 24, 2017 [7 favorites]

I think Kaepernick or Clinton would be the most likely to send him into a tweetfrenzy.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:00 PM on November 24, 2017

I could it being "The Sexual Predator" with a big lineup of mugshots including Trump alongside Weinstein, Moore, Louis C.K. etc.
posted by contraption at 7:03 PM on November 24, 2017 [32 favorites]

I'm annoyed this is even a thing. It's just his typical bald-faced lies and self-aggrandizement, and I wouldn't care at all except for the whole need to point out every fucked up thing he does so we don't normalize any of it. Sometimes I wonder if giving him the attention he wants does more harm than good, but I also worry it'll slide the bar for reasonable behavior ever lower if we don't.

I wish we could hold to a "Fuck Everything About This Dude And Everything He Ever Says" but that's not specific enough so the whole thing is a massive chore. Christ, what an asshole. Christ, what a bunch of other assholes for ever voting for him.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:18 PM on November 24, 2017 [18 favorites]

But srsly, Harvey Weinstein is Time’s POTY.

I think you mean Rose McGowan.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:21 PM on November 24, 2017 [26 favorites]

Time should pick some random woman who works the checkout at a grocery store and talk to her about the bullshit she has to deal with on a daily basis.
posted by perhapses at 7:29 PM on November 24, 2017 [63 favorites]

I Give Thanks for This: Two leaders we can still count on will meet discuss the forgotten issue of our time.

Over this holiday weekend, there will be quite the impressive meeting of the souls over in Rome. Papa Francesco is going to entertain Reverend William Barber, the civil rights leader from North Carolina and official preacherman of this here shebeen, and they’re going to talk over Barber’s newest mission: a Poor People’s campaign modeled after the one that Dr. King embarked on in the months before his murder, 50 years ago next year.

posted by homunculus at 7:45 PM on November 24, 2017 [42 favorites]

Hi, just want to report that I voted today. Well, I had to, I would have been fined if I didn't. Anyhow it wasn't as onerous as all that. It was just a walk to the primary school, I told them where I live, they gave me a ballot. I made my mark and put it in the box.

And there were sausages, it's hungry work, voting. So I had a sausage with bread, which I attacked like an illogical primate, tearing it with teeth. I felt guilty for being so uncivilised, so I said to the provider of sausages, 'I hope Pauline has a bad day'. I don't really curse people often, I think it's mean and bullying, and not nice.

On this occasion, my curses may be worthless howling at the wind, but I did vote. If Pauline has a bad day, I am actually responsible in a small way.
posted by adept256 at 7:48 PM on November 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

What is Brit tennis player Andy Murray doing in a US politics thread? Taking game,set, & match from donnie.
posted by NorthernLite at 7:53 PM on November 24, 2017 [6 favorites]

AOL just called to say Metafilter was PROBABLY going to be named website of the year but it would have to agree to display more ads and be compiled on a CD-ROM. It said probably is no good and took a pass. Thanks anyway!
posted by perhapses at 8:06 PM on November 24, 2017 [20 favorites]

We'll Be Paying For Mark Halperin's Sins For Years To Come

We have an apocalyptic politics in part because Halperin helped promote an apocalyptic approach to political coverage. It made him and his little scoops seem hugely important: that conversation he overheard between McConnell and Schumer meant everything. The title of his career-making book, 2008’s Game Change — which sold over 350,000 copies and netted him and his coauthor John Heilemann a $5 million advance for a follow-up — says everything. Politics is a game and its rules are constantly being transformed. Its intentionally hyperbolic, breathless text presented details like the fact that Obama “woke up late … and went for a haircut with his pal Marty Nesbitt” the way an ancient monarch’s courtiers used to examine his every sigh for divine omens.

posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:08 PM on November 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

I really miss Michelle Obama.
posted by milarepa at 8:39 PM on November 24, 2017 [49 favorites]

I've gone ahead and created Time's cover for them, no royalties required
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:38 PM on November 24, 2017 [4 favorites]

It's the year of the ManPerson. The final year.
posted by perhapses at 9:52 PM on November 24, 2017 [2 favorites]

@cwarzel: idk but what if we didn’t pay attention to our president’s attempts to create news cycles about himself during holidays where we are all trying to take a break from incessant discussion of politics?

@AdamParkhomenko: the only thing you should be doing right now is watching this video over and over in between sharing it with with the world (a righteous rant)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 10:19 PM on November 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

So it's been a couple three decades since I read Atlas Shrugged, but isn't an imbecilic, greedy, corrupt, obstructionist government leeching off the people with real talent basically the reason all the libertarians objectivists ran off to Galt's Gulch? It just occurred to me that Ryan and friends read it wrong. Or I did.
posted by ctmf at 10:30 PM on November 24, 2017 [8 favorites]

I want to reassure you that Atlas Shrugged is not... real. It's a fantasy. It's not even a very good one. I would argue that it's the opposite of good, it's a nightmare.
posted by adept256 at 11:20 PM on November 24, 2017 [3 favorites]

Eh, I'm aware, thanks. But it's supposedly Ryan's favorite book. He can't even get his bad fantasy right.
posted by ctmf at 1:06 AM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

The lies never stop! Sarah Huckabee Sanders posted a picture of the pie she baked for Thanksgiving but April Ryan isn't buying it:

AprilDRyan
@AprilDRyan
Show it to us on a table.

Sarah Sanders
@PressSec
Embedded
I️ dont cook much these days, but managed this Chocolate Pecan Pie for Thanksgiving at the family farm!

It didn't take long for people to discover the photo is from PBS.
posted by Room 641-A at 2:59 AM on November 25, 2017 [83 favorites]

What is even the point of that kind of fakery? Who ever expressed any care about the press secretary's cooking, one way or the other? Is this to get some annoying relative off her case?

I always assumed that Sarah Sanders's constant lying was to cover for her boss, not because she shared his complexes. So in a way, it's even sadder than Trump's ManPerson tweet, but that's tough competition. (Oof, the "PROBABLY" just makes you want to cry.)

The replies to the pie pic are fun; lots of obvious stock photos of various projects with "It's not much, I just threw this together last night"
posted by InTheYear2017 at 3:19 AM on November 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

Room 641-A : It didn't take long for people to discover the photo is from PBS.

Aside from whether or not the image is "real"... going by the replies, pbs.twimg.com isn't related to the Public Broadcasting Service. It's where Twitter hosts images, and you can confirm by simply viewing the pie image in a new tab.

Apparently there's no older copy of it to be found on the web? It would be really weird if she took an actual photo, then filtered out the background to make it look like a stock image. (Or photographed on plain paper with very bright light or something.)

Is it just bait so they can say "Gotcha, liberals, we're actually truthful about everything"? When Mueller finally announces charges, will Trump tweet "They thought Sarah's pie was fake too!"
posted by InTheYear2017 at 3:26 AM on November 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Anyone familiar (maybe not so much American readers) with Viz comic might remember Aldridge Prior (He's a Hopeless Liar). For some reason, he springs to mind at the moment
posted by Myeral at 3:27 AM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I used TinEye on the original Twitter image as it went by my feed. It had 0 hits then. Took some time to get archived so a hit would show.
posted by scalefree at 3:40 AM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

She's in a cult. She's brainwashed, she thinks it's real. We could start with pity, it's human, I feel sorry for her. She's lying, and she knows she's lying, but she's in this cult.

Sarah isn't alone, we all probably know someone like Sarah. The lies are easy to refute. It's the belief, the awful truth underlying this fiction. That's where we have to sit down with Sarah, and as hard as it is, we have to explain to her that she is wrong.
posted by adept256 at 4:41 AM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I have turned around entirely in my opinion of #piegate. I think it's a genuine photo, posted by someone with no credibility due to crying wolf. And the apparent fakeness is probably not even somehow devious, but just a consequence of an unusually clean countertop/tablecloth background. (Although I'm still uncertain that someone could post that without seeing the stock-photo resemblance.)
posted by InTheYear2017 at 4:50 AM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's like with Trump and the Time cover. You spend far too much time wondering why?.
posted by mumimor at 5:21 AM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Eh, real or not, if a White House correspondent takes the time to question your pie, you're a lying liar who lies about everything else.
posted by Room 641-A at 5:36 AM on November 25, 2017 [20 favorites]

SHS is one of those people who has so many LEGITIMATE horrible and disgusting qualities that it's not worth haranguing her over piddly shit.

Though if Hillary had baked said pie there would be three new investigations as to the classified status and place of origin of the pecans.
posted by delfin at 5:36 AM on November 25, 2017 [30 favorites]

We could start with pity, it's human, I feel sorry for her.

there is literally no reason to feel sorry for her, and she is not in a cult. she took a job, a well-compensated job, of her own free will. she probably got it largely because of her father, but there is no reason to think she didn't want it.

the republican party is not 'a cult,' it is a group of free individual human beings who have decided to band together for the express purposes of monetary self-enrichment, political power, and the opportunity to be extremely horrible to other human beings (the latter, presumably, because they like the feeling of control it gives them).

this is all very human behaviour, but there's no reason to feel pity for those who don't choose other, kinder forms of human behaviour. there's nothing stopping them from doing so save their own selfishness.
posted by halation at 5:37 AM on November 25, 2017 [62 favorites]

What is even the point of that kind of fakery? Who ever expressed any care about the press secretary's cooking, one way or the other? Is this to get some annoying relative off her case?

I'm not convinced it has anything to do with politics at all. It's probably run-of-the-mill "look good on social media" that I suspect about most people on Facebook and Instagram are also doing to some degree.

I mean, her position in the administration should have caused her to check herself, but if you've regularly been puffing up your social media before getting into a position like this, maybe it's hard to recognize the line between your public and private life.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:48 AM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

If that is a stock photo, it’s a terrible one. Generally, a professional would, you know, brush the crumbs away. And shoot on a backlit backdrop so one’s shadow isn’t visible. And get the pie in the frame. And just generally, resolution/exposure/contrast/saturation/etc.-wise, make it look a lot less like shit.

The “fake photo” business distracts from the obvious actual fraud: The pie is clearly store-bought.
posted by Sys Rq at 6:05 AM on November 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

But srsly, Harvey Weinstein is Time’s POTY.

I think this is very likely. People always think of it as an honor to be named with that title, but it's not.
posted by krinklyfig at 6:09 AM on November 25, 2017

Mod note: One deleted ... with about five different derails in one comment. Let's not get into if it's okay to feel sorry for SHS, or what organizations can be called cults, or Australian governance, gun control, etc.
posted by taz (staff) at 6:21 AM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I want her to prove there's actually chocolate in that "chocolate pecan pie", because that just looks like pecans and corn syrup.
posted by peeedro at 6:46 AM on November 25, 2017

that just looks like pecans and corn syrup.

i've actually made a similar pie and you only see the chocolate when you cut in -- you melt the chocolate into the corn syrup / sugar / butter filling, then whisk in the eggs. it looks like a regular pecan pie, just darker inside. (if you do it right, it's a pleasing spin on Scalzi's Schadenfreude Pie, appropriately enough, given that somehow a person who makes a living lying is now being set upon by Pie Truthers for what honestly does look like a homebaked-but-weirdly-photographed pie)
posted by halation at 6:54 AM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

InTheYear2017: "Although I'm still uncertain that someone could post that without seeing the stock-photo resemblance."

It's possible that is what they were going for. Not stock photo specifically but "professional" looking. IE like it was in a magazine.
posted by Mitheral at 7:03 AM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

a homebaked-but-weirdly-photographed pie
Nope. The crust is too even. I have spent far too many minutes of my life looking at pie-images on the net, and home-made pies across the globe have uneven crusts. I suspect it's even a point of pride: demonstrating that you are not a pie robot.
Anyway, it's just an other reminder that SHS is a liar.
Meanwhile people are still dying in Puerto Rico, and the Republicans are still ramming through a regressive tax "reform"
posted by mumimor at 7:06 AM on November 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

If Aztec Mummy Vs. the Pie Robots is not on the next season of MST3K, then all of this has been for naught.
posted by delfin at 7:18 AM on November 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

Sadly, all of this (gestures widely) has been for naught, regardless of programming.
posted by mochapickle at 7:27 AM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Let's not get into if it's okay to feel sorry for SHS, or what organizations can be called cults, or Australian governance, gun control, etc.

That's a shame because those are all subplots of the next Mad Max sequel.
posted by Kibbutz at 7:34 AM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

You know what's good in a pecan pie? Bourbon.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 7:34 AM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

You know what's good in a pecan pie? Bourbon.
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:41 AM on November 25, 2017 [25 favorites]

In fact, forget the pie
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:41 AM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Faint of Butt, you owe me a coke bourbon
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:44 AM on November 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

[We owe the mods a bourbon if we can't get off this derail of a derail of a derail.]
posted by Tsuga at 7:56 AM on November 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

A tidbit buried in a Washington Post story about the DOJ, While eyes are on Russia, Sessions dramatically reshapes the Justice Department

In meetings with top Justice Department officials about terrorist suspects, Sessions often has a particular question: Where is the person from? When officials tell him a suspect was born and lives in the United States, he typically has a follow-up: To what country does his family trace its lineage?

While there are reasons to want to know that information, some officials familiar with the inquiries said the questions struck them as revealing that Sessions harbors an innate suspicion about people from certain ethnic and religious backgrounds.

"... is racist and Islamophobic" seems like the more concise way of putting that.
posted by peeedro at 8:03 AM on November 25, 2017 [76 favorites]

I'm going with "store-bought crust" and some filling hastily dumped in to qualify it as homemade.
posted by TWinbrook8 at 8:06 AM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I think everyone is missing the main point about the pie here, which is that this is really an example of SHS being alarmingly good at her job. She never claimed to have baked the pie, she just said she "managed" it.
posted by contraption at 8:48 AM on November 25, 2017 [21 favorites]

How Trump is slowly destroying America's national security agencies. The president’s words and actions are deconstructing these vital agencies – and it might take years for the damage to be undone.
posted by adamvasco at 8:59 AM on November 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

NBC: Democrats dominate again in Washington state. First up: voting rights.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:21 AM on November 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

Referendum to overturn Missouri's "right to work" law has made the ballot for 2018.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:36 AM on November 25, 2017 [45 favorites]

The Hill: Actuaries warn Congress mandate repeal would increase premiums
posted by Chrysostom at 9:59 AM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Having a Great Time in the Philippines. Wish You Were Here.

During a photo call for Southeast Asian world leaders, Trump looked more miserable than usual, which is odd because he's standing next to his new best friend, Roberto Duterte.

Why the long face? Perhaps it was the complicated hand-shake pose. Perhaps the President is one of those people who gets really uncomfortable when someone tries to veer off from his traditional awkward, bone-crushing hand squeeze-and-yank.
...
This is the face of a man who would rather hold a live jellyfish than do whatever it is he's about to do. Perhaps he's thinking, "How do I squeeze and yank both hands at the same time? Should I have stretched first? This is the day I truly become President."

posted by kirkaracha at 10:15 AM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I haven't done forensic comparisons or anything, but it looks to me that SHS's pie is on the front page of Whaley Pecan Company's online shop.
posted by obloquy at 10:45 AM on November 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Okay, April Ryan has the last word on piegate:

AprilDRyan
@AprilDRyan
Okay I want to watch you bake it and put it on the table. But forgive I won’t eat it. Remember you guys don’t like the press.

Sarah Sanders
@PressSec
Don’t worry @AprilDRyan because I’m nice I’ll bake one for you next week #RealPie #FakeNews ;-)

posted by Room 641-A at 10:46 AM on November 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

"Dr." Gorka is superbad.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:08 AM on November 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

The Internet is also having a good time discussing Gorka's daily carry.
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:33 AM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

So Gorka is what happens when a mall ninja makes it to the highest level of government, then.
posted by Justinian at 11:52 AM on November 25, 2017 [28 favorites]

Richard Primus, Harvard Law Review Blog: Rulebooks, Playgrounds, and Endgames: A Constitutional Analysis of the Calabresi-Hirji Judgeship Proposal

Steven Calabresi and Shams Hirji have posted a co-written paper calling on Congress to legislate a major expansion of the lower federal courts. The document is remarkable in at least two respects. First, it showcases the difference between legislation that Congress has the formal authority to enact and legislation that is compatible with the small-c constitution. If Congress were to enact the Calabresi-Hirji proposal, it would be hard to articulate a rationale on which the courts could strike the resulting law down as unconstitutional. But it is also clear that the proposal threatens the permanent unraveling of a settlement that has made legitimate judicial review possible for a century and a half. Second, the document depicts a judiciary that is populated, not by honorable judges who are appointed by Presidents of both parties and who often have good-faith disagreements, but by conservative judges on one hand and, on the other, Democratic-appointed judges who subvert the rule of law. In the paper’s view, the rule of law itself demands that Democratic appointees not be permitted to exercise judicial power.

In both respects, the proposal suggests a kind of constitutional Armageddon. It comes to end an era, with the forces of good poised to overwhelm the forces of evil. Don’t get me wrong here: I’m in favor of good, and I’m less keen on evil. But somehow I still don’t think that this proposal is a good idea.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:02 PM on November 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Trump Campaign Stops Paying Donald Jr.’s Legal Bills
The Trump campaign has stopped paying legal bills for Donald Trump Jr. and is setting up a legal defense fund to cover the costs for him and other campaign staffers related to investigations into Russian election meddling, said a person familiar with the matter.
A fund for campaign staffers should be running in a few weeks, the person said, adding that the exact structure, how it would be administered and who would be eligible are still being finalized. It also hasn’t been determined yet whether President Donald Trump or the Trump Organization could contribute to the fund.
posted by PenDevil at 12:08 PM on November 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

How is it even legal for the Trump campaign to be paying Jr's bills in the first place?
Narrator: it's not. (I presume.)
posted by kirkaracha at 12:38 PM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

"Dr." Gorka is superbad.

McHatin.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 12:54 PM on November 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

Jeez, that Gorka pic...

French cuffs with cuff links, a braided belt, mom jeans and a suede vest all just scream “alpha”, don’t they?

Totally ROFLed at the link to the “Thomas had never seen such a mess” meme.
posted by darkstar at 12:58 PM on November 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

McRussiawithLovin.
posted by Dumsnill at 12:59 PM on November 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

French cuffs with cuff links, a braided belt, mom jeans and a suede vest all just scream “alpha”, don’t they?

Don't forget the paracord bracelet, a staple of every prepper.
posted by PenDevil at 1:02 PM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

French cuffs with cuff links, a braided belt, mom jeans and a suede vest all just scream “alpha”, don’t they?

Hey, we're all dealing with David Cassidy's death in our own ways.
posted by MrVisible at 1:10 PM on November 25, 2017 [22 favorites]

But the [real] money responses are:

Seth Rogen ‏Verified account
@Sethrogen
Dear fucking God.

Chris Mintz-Plasse ‏Verified account
@MintzPlasse
Replying to @Sethrogen
I got my next acting gig lined up at least.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:13 PM on November 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

So, this weekend after Thanksgiving, The New York Times has decided to go with "Let's Normalize Nazi's For The Holidays" with this--I shit you not--flattering puff piece on the "Nazi Next Door".

In America’s Heartland, the Nazi Sympathizer Next Door

I'm really torn between "You should not give these fuckers any clicks" and "Get a load of these fucking quislings", so I'll just leave you with this maddening example:

Mr. Hovater’s face is narrow and punctuated with sharply peaked eyebrows, like a pair of air quotes, and he tends to deliver his favorite adjective, “edgy,” with a flat affect and maximum sarcastic intent. It is a sort of implicit running assertion that the edges of acceptable American political discourse — edges set by previous generations, like the one that fought the Nazis — are laughable.

“I don’t want you to think I’m some ‘edgy’ Republican,” he says, while flatly denouncing the concept of democracy.

“I don’t even think those things should be ‘edgy,’” he says, while defending his assertion that Jews run the worlds of finance and the media, and “appear to be working more in line with their own interests than everybody else’s.”

So, just remember, the author; Richard Fausset, is a Nazi sympathizer, and The New York Times gives him shitloads of column inches to do it in. That is all.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:14 PM on November 25, 2017 [39 favorites]

I hate Illinois Nazis.

Ohio is close enough to count.
posted by delfin at 1:24 PM on November 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

I'm pretty convinced all media outlets are owned and operated by Nazis.
posted by maxwelton at 1:42 PM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, this weekend after Thanksgiving, The New York Times has decided to go with "Let's Normalize Nazi's For The Holidays" with this--I shit you not--flattering puff piece on the "Nazi Next Door".

For what it's worth, it didn't seem like a puff piece to me. More like a horror story.
posted by mumimor at 1:48 PM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Wait, what happened to loving the Times because of all their work bringing us F5 o'clock scoops? We're back to hating on them this week? I have trouble keeping track. Can we set up a calendar or something so I know which weeks are which?
posted by Justinian at 1:58 PM on November 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

I'm slowly shifting my position from "subscribing to the nyt makes you a chump but hey it's ur money" to "subscribing to the nyt is borderline evil and we probably shouldn't be friends".

I will never forgive the NYT for Judith Miller.
posted by mikelieman at 2:03 PM on November 25, 2017 [36 favorites]

I find the idea that the NYT reporting on this person's worldview is somehow supportive of it, or that they describe his idiotic opinions in a way that would attract more adherents to his "ideology", utterly baffling.
posted by Dumsnill at 2:07 PM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

WaPo and NYT post oddly similar (and almost simultaneous) pieces on Jared Kushner, the former including an interview with the “secretary of state” himself.

The shrinking profile of Jared Kushner
, Ashley Parker, WaPo

Jared Kushner’s Vast Duties, and Visibility in White House, Shrink, by Sharon LaFraniere, Maggie Haberman and Peter Baker, NYT
posted by AwkwardPause at 2:09 PM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

I find the idea that the NYT reporting on this person's worldview is somehow supportive of it, or that they describe his idiotic opinions in a way that would attract more adherents to his "ideology", utterly baffling.

Compare and contrast:

Nazi:

In Ohio, amid the row crops and rolling hills, the Olive Gardens and Steak ’n Shakes, Mr. Hovater’s presence can make hardly a ripple. He is the Nazi sympathizer next door, polite and low-key at a time the old boundaries of accepted political activity can seem alarmingly in flux. Most Americans would be disgusted and baffled by his casually approving remarks about Hitler, disdain for democracy and belief that the races are better off separate. But his tattoos are innocuous pop-culture references: a slice of cherry pie adorns one arm, a homage to the TV show “Twin Peaks.” He says he prefers to spread the gospel of white nationalism with satire. He is a big “Seinfeld” fan.

Unarmed teen killed by a cop.

Michael Brown, 18, due to be buried on Monday, was no angel, with public records and interviews with friends and family revealing both problems and promise in his young life. Shortly before his encounter with Officer Wilson, the police say he was caught on a security camera stealing a box of cigars, pushing the clerk of a convenience store into a display case. He lived in a community that had rough patches, and he dabbled in drugs and alcohol. He had taken to rapping in recent months, producing lyrics that were by turns contemplative and vulgar. He got into at least one scuffle with a neighbor.

posted by chris24 at 2:11 PM on November 25, 2017 [110 favorites]

Well, when I read that I certainly felt much more affinity and sympathy with the teen than with the nazi, but maybe I'm weird.

That said, the whole "no angel" is shitty as all fuck.

I just assume that when writing about nazis you don't need to tell the somewhat informed reader that nazis are bad.
posted by Dumsnill at 2:22 PM on November 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

If the piece makes some other people realize that the nice, quiet, polite young man next door to them who says those things about white rights and Jewish conspiracies and race-mixing is also an actual and self-identifying fucking modern-day Nazi, that's a good thing.

But his being a Seinfeld fan should already have been a big "watch this guy" red flag.
posted by delfin at 2:24 PM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

But his being a Seinfeld fan should already have been a big "watch this guy" red flag.

NO RIGHTS FOR YOU! COME BACK WHEN WHITE!
posted by Talez at 2:26 PM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

From NYT, Why Trump Stands by Roy Moore, Even as It Fractures His Party

What the president did not foresee was that the friction would reach inside his immediate family. He vented his annoyance when his daughter Ivanka castigated Mr. Moore by saying there was “a special place in hell for people who prey on children,” according to three staff members who heard his comments.

“Do you believe this?” Mr. Trump asked several aides in the Oval Office in the hours after Ms. Trump said that Mr. Moore should exit the race. Mr. Moore’s Democratic opponent in the Alabama race, Doug Jones, quickly turned her comments into a campaign ad.

But something deeper has been consuming Mr. Trump. He sees the calls for Mr. Moore to step aside as a version of the response to the now-famous “Access Hollywood” tape, in which he boasted about grabbing women’s genitalia, and the flood of groping accusations against him that followed soon after. He suggested to a senator earlier this year that it was not authentic, and repeated that claim to an adviser more recently. (In the hours after it was revealed in October 2016, Mr. Trump acknowledged that the voice was his, and he apologized.)

He said what the what now?
posted by zachlipton at 2:39 PM on November 25, 2017 [46 favorites]

I just assume that when writing about nazis you don't need to tell the somewhat informed reader that nazis are bad.

I think this kind of assumption, at this point, is unwarranted and perhaps dangerous. Clearly, many people need to be told that nazis are, in fact, very bad, and why. I no longer assume anything about or from our fellow people, no expectation of a common sense of decency or collectivism or altruism or morality or even reality and facts or elementary awareness of history and current events. There is too much evidence to the contrary, lately.

Maybe a kind of crowd-sourced, Basic Cultural Information cheat sheet would be helpful? It could be printed on pocket-sized cards and distributed freely at churches, Wal-Marts, state fairs, sports bars and oil change places that play Fox News all the time in the lobby. Just a simple list of Stuff You Really Should Know, And Stuff. I'll start:

1. Nazis are bad. Very bad.
2. Sexual assault is also very bad, and wrong.
3. "Being attracted to teenagers" is not, like, a legitimate kind of taste in women.
Etc.
posted by LooseFilter at 2:53 PM on November 25, 2017 [56 favorites]

The key phrase is "somewhat informed reader." Their numbers are in decline, and we know who is "informing" many of those who do still pay attention.
posted by delfin at 2:57 PM on November 25, 2017

"I no longer assume anything about or from our fellow people"

Yeah, sadly you might be right. From my background, anyone who takes the time to read a long article in something like NYT is already aware that nazis are/were bad. Perhaps that's no longer the case.
posted by Dumsnill at 2:58 PM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

He said what the what now?

I'm not in the least surprised. He's both in cognitive decline (can't remember the event) and is a narcissist (can't ever be wrong).

Meanwhile, y'all know there are NYT subscribers in this thread, right? There are actual monsters in this world. People with an affinity for Sunday crosswords are pretty low down on the list.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:00 PM on November 25, 2017 [15 favorites]

Meanwhile, y'all know there are NYT subscribers in this thread, right?

OMG
posted by LooseFilter at 3:06 PM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Venn diagram of "card-carrying Nazi" and "thinks the NYT is Communist fishwrap" is damn close to one circle. The article isn't there to sway them.

But it'd be nice that if you're sounding the alarm that Nazism continues to be on the rise among nondescript suburbanites, the least you should do as an author is to, y'know, sound alarmed about it.
posted by delfin at 3:24 PM on November 25, 2017 [23 favorites]

But it'd be nice that if you're sounding the alarm that Nazism continues to be on the rise among nondescript suburbanites, the least you should do as an author is to, y'know, sound alarmed about it.

I honestly don't understand why a journalist should write in a way that makes it clear to the reader the the journalist is personally alarmed.
posted by Dumsnill at 3:50 PM on November 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Paul Schwartzman, WaPo: Why a historically conservative county in Virginia is making national Republicans nervous

In this bastion of Virginia-brand conservatism, dozens of Democratic women roared on a recent night as their organization’s leader crowed over their party’s historic electoral triumph.

For the first time since 1961, Chesterfield County backed a Democrat for governor — and the driving forces in this Richmond suburb included women who defiantly trumpeted a political label their party has ducked for decades.

“Are we done?” Kim Drew Wright asked members of the organization that she and her allies christened the Liberal Women of Chesterfield County after President Trump’s election last year.

“Noooooo!,” the women shouted back.

Until Gov.-elect Ralph Northam (D) won Chesterfield County three weeks ago, the stretch of suburban and rural communities southwest of Richmond had been considered reliably Republican.

Yet voters infuriated by Trump, many of them women and Hispanics who have migrated to the county in recent years, are redefining Chesterfield and alarming Virginia Republicans who have depended on the area to make up for the support the party lacks in urban areas.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:53 PM on November 25, 2017 [52 favorites]

The article directly linked to a page where you could buy Nazi armbands and support the subject of the article directly. And then they deleted that link without comment. THAT IS NOT NORMAL! The article quotes the Nazi making inaccurate factual claims that form the basis for calls for modern holocaust denial, but just leaves them sitting there uncontested. THATS NOT GOOD JOURNALISM. Why would they ever think that was a good idea? Why are people here defending this article?

I like a lot of the NYTs reporting but they frequently make outrageously stupid editorial decisions and then refuse to acknowledge mistakes. Leading them to make the same mistakes again and again. Others have already posted similar articles the NYTs ran before WW2 focusing on the supposedly gentler side of Nazis. This is a mistake that’s been made before and they refuse to learn. We’re Barton Fink freaking out over how to understand the psyche of genocidal fuckers WHO WANT US GONE OR DEAD while John Goodman is burning down our house and shouting Seig Heil.
posted by cyphill at 3:56 PM on November 25, 2017 [77 favorites]

The "somewhat informed readers" of the New York Times only knew of Donald Trump prior to his Presidential Campaign announcement as a kind of comedy relief for the Business Section and a reliable source of Real Estate ads that you didn't want to piss off too badly. Readers of the Washington Post would've known more from Doonesbury comics where The Donald was a recurring character (the NYT avoids comics completely, another reason to hate them).

And my local dead tree news medium, one of several small California papers owned by McClatchy, considered even more 'liberal' than the NYT and having its own excellent DC bureau, had a Section B front-page article today about Trump's "earliest appearance in the Panama Papers". Now, the San Luis Obispo Tribune gets its national news from several sources, including the NYT, and this article came from the New York DAILY NEWS.

Meanwhile, congratulations Paul Schwartzman, WaPo, for an article about a Republican area that is NOT "Trump Country".
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:00 PM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I honestly don't understand why a journalist should write in a way that makes it clear to the reader the the journalist is personally alarmed.

Talia Lavin summed this up nicely: "illustrating the banality of evil by focusing solely on the banality and not the evil seems counterproductive"
posted by zachlipton at 4:07 PM on November 25, 2017 [119 favorites]

"in person, his Midwestern manners would please anyone’s mother."

Nazis don't have fucking good manners. They're genocidal fucking monsters and acting like they're kind folks you bring home to mom is a fucking lie and normalizes the unthinkable.

It is absolutely journalism's responsibility to call out heinous beliefs and behaviors. Failure to do so is a large part of how we're at a point where fascism/racism is fucking mainstreamed these days.
posted by chris24 at 4:07 PM on November 25, 2017 [36 favorites]

For all of you who think this is a good piece, do you think it’s appropriate quote his false facts without rebutting or correcting them? Why?

Do you think it’s appropriate to directly link to his online storefront that sells racist propaganda instead of including a photo? Why?

Do you think it’s appropriate to alter a news article after online protests without acknowledging you did so or admitting mistakes? Why?
posted by cyphill at 4:18 PM on November 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

"illustrating the banality of evil by focusing solely on the banality and not the evil seems counterproductive"

I agree that that's a good point.
posted by Dumsnill at 4:21 PM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

You know, I’m coming at it in a mid-90s, Jewish, New York, observational-humor way.

Really more of a mid-40s, anti-Jewish, Auschwitz, eliminationist-murder way.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:30 PM on November 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

From the orange twitter feed:
.@FoxNews is MUCH more important in the United States than CNN, but outside of the U.S., CNN International is still a major source of (Fake) news, and they represent our Nation to the WORLD very poorly. The outside world does not see the truth from them!

He is right about CNN being much more important internationally than Fox News. It will be interesting to see how he tries to stop them from reporting "fake" news.
posted by Dumsnill at 4:33 PM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

> voters infuriated by Trump, many of them women and Hispanics who have migrated to the county in recent years, are redefining Chesterfield and alarming Virginia Republicans

So, WaPo thinks women started migrating to Chestrfield county in recent years along with Hispanic people, and that explains the election results...
posted by nangar at 4:35 PM on November 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

so was the entire article rewritten between its initial posting here and right now? as of 7:38 EST, it is all about how the American Nazi movement is consciously pursuing a goal of 'normalization' and using their more physically presentable and pop-culturally aware members for that strategic purpose. explicitly about that, not subtextually in a subtle covert snide NYT kind of way. there are a lot of comments here that only make sense if there was an earlier version that was completely different. a sneakily deleted link and rewritten headline alone would not account for it.
posted by queenofbithynia at 4:39 PM on November 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

And he refers to the 2013 science-fiction movie “Pacific Rim,” in which society is attacked by massive monsters that emerge from beneath the Pacific Ocean.

“So the people, they don’t ask the monsters to stop,” he says. “They build a giant robot to try to stop them. And that’s essentially what fascism is. It’s like our version of centrally coming together to try to stop another already centralized force.”

So it's almost like they formed an alliance and built a giant mechanized army to stop a centrally-located force that was already attacking them?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:40 PM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

@bessbell: You know who had nice manners? The Nazi who shaved my uncle Willie's head before escorting him into a cement chamber where he locked eyes with children as their lungs filled with poison and they suffocated to death in agony.

Too much? Exactly. That's how you write about Nazis.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:43 PM on November 25, 2017 [103 favorites]

Well, can't go offending NYT subscribers, can we?
posted by Sphinx at 4:55 PM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

I blame Seinfeld; his "Soup Nazi" devalued the term.

But the 'Nice Nazi' referring to Pacific Rim is a perfect example of the spread of Trump's Mirror to all those of his lying, hateful ilk... he is the Kaiju.

What worries me is how the current shift toward Real Socialism may empower the Nazis... It's factually correct that a smaller and smaller number of the super-rich are controlling more and more of everything, and you only need to add the words "and they're all Jews" to turn it into Blood Libel. Of course, a lot of the Not-Jewish .0001% probably see a new Jewish genocide as an opportunity to pick up more of the booty at reduced prices...
posted by oneswellfoop at 4:56 PM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's a sad commentary on how awful history is that I am forced to know that such a belief would be "regular" antisemitic bullshit rather than Blood Libel which is a bunch of lies about murdering Christian infants and using their blood in Jewish rituals.
posted by Justinian at 5:03 PM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

The reporter on that Times story wrote a second piece basically acknowledging the holes in his story and that he never figured out what makes a Nazi a Nazi (maybe he should go read Dorthy Parker's 1941 "Who Goes Nazi?" rather than bringing us all the breaking news that white supremacists eat at Applebee's too).

Will Sommer asks an important question:

It remains crazy to me that so many national outlets hand off coverage of white extremists to random reporters, rather than making it a dedicated beat. This approach ends up with exactly what you see in this NYT story, and what we’ve seen since 2016 in coverage of the far right: dangerous movements that should be covered seriously treated as harmless novelties. The NYT has a great team devoted to ISIS and al Qaeda coverage. Why not do the same for white extremist groups in the US? After Charlottesville, no question that they’re newsworthy.

So many of these profiles are written by general assignment reporters who parachute in, chat with the guy, and churn out a "Nazis: they're just like us" profile. Imagine what kind of actual journalism could be done by reporters who've spent serious time researching and engaging with the topic rather than focusing on individual personalities?
posted by zachlipton at 5:04 PM on November 25, 2017 [95 favorites]

jfc that article makes me sick.
posted by gucci mane at 5:13 PM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Maybe it’s because I grew up as the only Jew in my class (sometimes my whole school). Maybe it’s because I’m someone who was held down on the bus so kids could feel my head for horns. Or maybe it’s from all the students who would draw swastikas on my school books and call me a stupid Jew (in front of teachers!) and then get me suspended when I reacted. Or maybe it’s the kid that rode his bike up and down my street wearing a WW2 Nazi helmet. Maybe it was the time I was invited on a friend’s family camping trip only to find out it was actually a Young Life conversion retreat. Maybe it’s because South Park turned the phrase “Dirty Jew” into something friends thought they could say to me and adults would just laugh off. Maybe it’s the parties where I have to leave because someone got drunk and decided to talk about their opinions about how the holocaust was overblown and I’m not allowed to get angry about it, because “he’s just got some different opinions than you” and I need to respect him. Maybe because it’s happened here before and it’s happening again.

Maybe I’m just sick of people constantly defending Nazis and writing lame-ass articles that bring national attention and money to people who want me dead.

You know how many people have stood up for me against anti-semites in person? Zero. It’s never happened. So fuck off with this “we all know Nazis are bad BS”. This article brought national attention and thousands of new people to this shitbags website and podcast (which are still linked). Who knew this asshole before today? How many people know him now? If you think this a good thing, your exactly the kind of person who has stood by silently watching.
posted by cyphill at 5:13 PM on November 25, 2017 [153 favorites]

My spouse is Jewish, the grandson of a Holocaust refugee. I have to spend the next few days hoping against hope that he doesn't see this NYT bullshit and start having the terrifying nightmares again that mean he just chooses not to sleep.

(on preview, love to you cyphill. In 2017 in the country that helped defeat the fucking Nazis, you and my spouse deserve so fucking much better than this bullshit.)
posted by hydropsyche at 5:15 PM on November 25, 2017 [17 favorites]

ALSO, and having exercised my Nazi-related outrage in the past hour, this trashfire of a NYT article is full of the snide coastal elitism. "in person, his Midwestern manners would please anyone’s mother." FUCK. YOU. He let loose any ONE of those sentences around my manners-valuing confrontation-avoiding Midwestern mother and she would exit the room and never be in one again where he was. I am three someones' mother, raising them with midwestern manners, and you can bet your sweet bippy that if I heard one damn sentence like that out of him I would demand, "You get the fuck out of my house this instant and if you ever come near me or my children again, I'm calling the cops." Because my well-mannered Midwestern children are going to for DAMN sure know that some things require an f-bomb and a fight in the living room. NAZIS ARE TOP ON THAT LIST.

And yes, I have shouted down anti-Semites at public meetings more than once, and yes, I have directly called them racists in public meetings for attribution in the press, and yes, this is way way more confrontational than nice Midwestern community meetings generally get, and yes, it is way way beyond what is normal an appropriate level of public confrontationalism and anger for a woman like me to display but JESUS CHRIST WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NAZIS.*

Anyway, you know what neither me nor my mother nor any other Midwestern mom I know do? COMPLIMENT A NAZI ON THEIR NICE MANNERS. It's not the Midwestern rubes here who are so enamored of the manners of the polite Nazis, it's the fucking sophisticated New York Times. Try harder, NYT. Be cooler about Midwesterners, and way less cool about Nazis.

*on preview, I wrote that paragraph before I saw your comment, cyphill, and you lemme know if you ever need a polite Midwestern lady to come shout obscenities at Nazis in public venue for you, it's kind-of my thing.**

**Actually my thing is that once you're a middle-aged white lady people sort-of expect you to mom out in public and reprimand people's bad behavior, so I've decided to use this power on racists because it works exactly the same on racists at zoning board meetings as it does on teenagers using bad language at the mall, and the racists seem a lot more important in terms of intolerable public behavior.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:21 PM on November 25, 2017 [137 favorites]

so was the entire article rewritten between its initial posting here and right now? as of 7:38 EST

queenofbithynia, there has been some light modification to the article, but it's still largely intact. It does appear that Fausset was given some editorial changes, and it says as much in the article footnotes:

A version of this article appears in print on November 26, 2017, on Page A15 of the New York edition with the headline: In America’s Heartland, the Nazi Sympathizer Next Door.

posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:26 PM on November 25, 2017

I read the article and developed nothing but a deeper disgust for people like him and his "ideas" ; but when there are jewish members here who tell me that it is an awful piece of writing that portrays nazis in a good light, I take that very seriously. I genuinely apologize for any offense I have given.
posted by Dumsnill at 5:28 PM on November 25, 2017 [10 favorites]

I blame Seinfeld; his "Soup Nazi" devalued the term.

I think --and please correct me if I'm wrong-- the offhand comment "But his being a Seinfeld fan should already have been a big "watch this guy" red flag." was in reference to Steve Bannon getting rich off initial investment in the show. [cite]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:43 PM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

Dumsnill: it looks like you're not from the US? Consider the possibility that the cultural context of racism and anti-Semitism in the US may not be easily translatable in a 1:1 way to your own cultural context. In other words, if no one you know has nightmares about the Holocaust or the KKK, count yourself lucky and don't assume you know what it's like to be in the middle of it right now.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:43 PM on November 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

I've been wearing my Star of David necklace again since the election. Sometimes I feel like I'm overreacting to weird looks and comments and being paranoid. Sometimes I feel like I'm not being paranoid enough. My ex is from a town adjacent to Huber Heights. I've eaten in that Applebee's. I know there are plenty of average, run of the mill anti-Semitic Ohioans (my roommate's grandmother told her to make sure she got her rent check from me on time every month, because you know how Those People are). And, I know there are plenty of White Supremacists in Ohio (excuse me, I mean White Nationalists, because they're so tolerant that mixed race couples can come to their wedding). The guy who stopped me on the street to ask if that was an Israeli star? The Project Evropa guys who put fliers around Ohio State's campus? The guys with Trump signs who followed around hijabis and other visible minority students at Ohio State yelling "Build the wall!" the night of the election?

You know they're not just in Ohio. You know they're in our Enlightened Coastal Enclaves, being just as mannerly. This weekend, someone in Brooklyn told me Those (Orthodox Jewish) People in Williamsburg have some weird pull in New York politics. I got cut off by a car with a confederate flag bumper sticker in downtown Boston the other day. Someone left swastikas in my locker in high school.

The NY Times may be helping to normalize Nazis in the heartland, but they're everywhere and they've been here and they're damaging and they're already something that lots of people shrug off or say it's not really that bad or is that really anti-Semitic or is that really dangerous speech? This doesn't need a puff piece with a punchline of "gee, planning a wedding is hard even without the threat of the anti-fa."
posted by ChuraChura at 5:50 PM on November 25, 2017 [51 favorites]

Xyanthilous, it was in reference to the Seinfeld sitcom being an only slightly veiled contest between the four main characters, battling each week to determine which of them was the most irredeemably awful person on the face of the Earth.

George was, of course, the usual winner but they did all take turns.
posted by delfin at 5:52 PM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

I dunno, Eyebrows. I have definitely spent the last year watching people be Midwestern nice about attitudes that I think should be completely beyond the pale. I'd like to think that wouldn't extend to outright Nazism, but I'm no longer super confident about that.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:57 PM on November 25, 2017 [14 favorites]

All it takes for evil to flourish is for nice people to be real polite about it....? (Misquoting H. Arendt)
posted by puddledork at 6:12 PM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

No, not from the US, but Norwegians in general and Norwegian Jews in particular did not have a fun time during the nazi occupation, so in that sense it is not completely alien to me or my family, some of whom ended up in concentration camps due to their political activities (not their ethnicities though).
posted by Dumsnill at 6:15 PM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

The Atlantic already has a parody of the NYT piece out: Nazis Are Just Like You and Me, Except They're Nazis

It's almost a little too close to be a parody, a common problem in this age of WTF.
posted by emjaybee at 6:16 PM on November 25, 2017 [50 favorites]

Ms. Hovater, 25, was worried about Antifa bashing up the ceremony. Weddings are hard enough to plan for when your fiancé is not an avowed white nationalist.

There should be a threat of Antifa at Nazi weddings. Fuck your special day. Black-clad Marxists will eat all the fondant off your cake and replace the Fashwave on your soundsystem with pre-1997 Chumbawamba.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:17 PM on November 25, 2017 [87 favorites]

(apologies in advance for a meta-comment)

And yes, I have shouted down anti-Semites at public meetings more than once, and yes, I have directly called them racists in public meetings for attribution in the press, and yes, this is way way more confrontational than nice Midwestern community meetings generally get, and yes, it is way way beyond what is normal an appropriate level of public confrontationalism and anger for a woman like me to display but JESUS CHRIST WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NAZIS.*

From here on and forevermore, whenever I see the handle Eyebrows McGee, I'm gonna think of Amy Madigan in this scene, which I unconditionally love.
posted by martin q blank at 6:21 PM on November 25, 2017 [12 favorites]

James Hamblin nailed the rando ending of the NYT piece in the Atlantic satire posted by emjaybee.
posted by valkane at 6:26 PM on November 25, 2017

maybe he should go read Dorthy Parker's 1941 "Who Goes Nazi?"

Not Dorothy Parker, but Dorothy Thompson. Thompson was one of the most distinguished journalists of her era. She interviewed Hitler and wrote a book recognizing the danger of Hitler in 1931. She personally witnessed the rise of Nazism. She described Hitler as: "formless, almost faceless, a man whose countenance is a caricature, a man whose framework seems cartilaginous, without bones. He is inconsequent and voluble, ill poised and insecure. He is the very prototype of the little man."

She was the first American journalist expelled from Germany in 1934. She led an extraordinary life, starting with the women's suffrage movement. In 1939 she was recognized by Time magazine as the second most influential woman in America next to Eleanor Roosevelt. You can read a brief summary here in wikipedia.
posted by JackFlash at 6:27 PM on November 25, 2017 [112 favorites]

Ack! Thank you JackFlash. We regret the error.
posted by zachlipton at 6:33 PM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

One of the reasons this shit is so fucking terrible is that while overt Nazis are still somewhat few in number, about 30% of the population are de facto Nazis, racist fascists who share much of the ideology of Ohio Nazi without the honesty to admit it.

@JYSexton
"With Trump's base showing strong preferences for authoritarianism, and continuing to support a serial predator of children, it's time to look this problem in its face. This isn't a political problem. This is a societal issue, a major, major existential problem with who we are and how we view the world. This is no longer about Democrats and Republicans, even though the latter fostered this group and gave it power and influence. This is something larger.

We have a substantial group in this country who are okay with a president who would stamp out free speech, free press, and are comfortable with foreign influence and collusion. They didn't blink when a woman was murdered by white supremacists. They don't worry about mass shootings. They support fascism in totality. We're so focused on Trump and this political circus that we're missing the BIG BIG picture. We have a growing, powerful section of our fellow citizens who do not believe in a democratic, shared society. They only care about our laws and customs when they help them. They do not believe in the Constitution or any founding principles unless they're advantageous. When those principles and customs are used to progress things, they reject them wholly and fall back on authoritarian ideals and fascist behavior.

They've always been here. They've been slaveholders. They've been confederates. They've been our neighbors. They've been our family. Republicans fostered them as a means to push their policies and leveraged their worst instincts. Now, they've lost hold of the leash and have been taken over from the inside. Trump didn't create this. He is the total personification of this worldview. He was elected to be their avatar because he is as lost in this as they are. And as long as we keep looking at this as a Trump problem we're not going to see the whole picture and we're not going to even begin addressing it. This is an education problem. This is a social problem. This is the heart of every corrosive element in this society. It beats every second and spreads the infection further. They'll stand by Trump, a dangerous authoritarian. They'll stand by a man everyone agrees is a serial child predator. There's literally no telling what they'll stand by. I know we all hope Roy Moore is the bottom of the hole, but it's not. If we don't begin addressing this, we're going to find that Moore is only the beginning.

If you come from a family like mine, you know that there are Americans who hold Adolf Hitler in high regard. Who say he had "good ideas." If people like Trump continue to push them further, there's literally no telling what they'll allow or what they'll support. This is how a democracy backslides into a fascist state. I know people who have openly dreamed of having America a fascist country. They talk all the time about ow much better it would be. This isn't a slippery slope. It's a bottomless pit and we'd better start trying to find purchase and look at this thing in the face or else we're going to fall and fall and fall. Believe me. The people I know who would be okay with it? They're everywhere. They work with you. They shop at your stores. They'd tell you to your face just what they would be okay with. We cannot let them continue to build a base and have a seat at the table. That only empowers them and furthers the danger. Focus on Trump and Moore, but remember that this is so much larger than him. They are symptoms of the disease and the disease worsens and spreads by the day."
posted by chris24 at 6:48 PM on November 25, 2017 [133 favorites]

President Trump Now Says That Wasn’t Him on Access Hollywood Tape

As the Times reveals, though, Trump has gone way beyond mere denials. He has taken to contesting objective reality itself:

But something deeper has been consuming Mr. Trump. He sees the calls for Mr. Moore to step aside as a version of the response to the now-famous “Access Hollywood” tape, in which he boasted about grabbing women’s genitalia, and the flood of groping accusations against him that followed soon after. He suggested to a senator earlier this year that it was not authentic, and repeated that claim to an adviser more recently. (In the hours after it was revealed in October 2016, Mr. Trump acknowledged that the voice was his, and he apologized.)

posted by kirkaracha at 6:49 PM on November 25, 2017 [9 favorites]

You know that scene in Cabaret, when we hear a sweet voice singing a pastoral song and the camera pans down and it turns out the singer is a Nazi? And everybody likes the song and oh, look, there are other Nazis there and they join in too and it's so beautiful that lots of people want to be Nazis just so they can join in and be part of the beautiful, beautiful song?

That is literally what the NYT is doing here and I don't buy the "oh we had an inexperienced reporter" bullshit. There are a lot of unusual choices there, from the fact of the interview to the links themselves. The link advertising swastika armbands seems to have gone, but you can still read the essay described as "lamenting libertarianism’s leftward drift" which is actually a racist call to arms. I bet Hovaty does a lot more than describe 'the widely accepted estimate that six million Jews died in the Holocaust [as] “overblown”', but why link to a paywalled newspaper like Ha'aretz as reference instead of the many authoritative public ones? Something about this isn't right; there's more to it than a dumb journalist on a slow news day.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:58 PM on November 25, 2017 [46 favorites]

President Trump Now Says That Wasn’t Him on Access Hollywood Tape

Of course not! If anything, the whole Roy Moore situation has shown that if you simply deny deny deny even/especially in the face of damning evidence, the base has your back. Even someone as vilified in society as a child molester, as long as they play for their team, the deplorables will rally behind you.

Why not try to rewrite history and reject something he admitted to over a year ago as fake? He literally has nothing to lose. Especially when there is a high likelihood of him needing to deny the validity of tapes that come out in the future.
posted by chaoticgood at 7:01 PM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

Jared Yates Sexton's above tweetstorm is probably the most succinct description of what's happening to American society that I've read. I hope it's shared far and wide.
posted by homunculus at 7:10 PM on November 25, 2017 [11 favorites]

" I have definitely spent the last year watching people be Midwestern nice about attitudes that I think should be completely beyond the pale. I'd like to think that wouldn't extend to outright Nazism, but I'm no longer super confident about that"

Oh, there definitely are, although I think a lot of people are Midwestern nice not because they're tolerating it but because they're SHOCKED to hear that sort of opinion expressed in public and, panicking, retreat to extreme politeness (which is also how I generally handle stressful public situations, so I get it).

When I started being at public meetings where I heard people say appalling things (during my time in local politics), the first couple of times I froze in shock, and I was really mad at myself that I froze, so I went home and rehearsed in my head what I'd do the next time, over and over, and the next time someone trotted out something offensive, I basically did that. I got better with practice. And there's a really powerful bystander effect, and, like anti-bystander effect? (I don't know the name, I'm sure someone does.) When I would stand up and interrupt and say, "Wow, that's extremely offensive; what you just said is racist and that is not acceptable," or "I'm sorry, I'm confused: when you say they're 'from Skokie' over and over, are you trying to suggest that they're Jewish and that's a problem?" suddenly a whole bunch of people would start speaking up, asking the chair to recognize them or just calling out or whatever, and people would come over afterwards and say, "I'm so glad you said something, I just froze and I didn't know what to so, but it was really offensive!" (Also, local media and its bothsidesism means that if some jerk stands up and holds forth at length at a zoning meeting about how Those People will ruin property values and blah blah blah things that sound vaguely like statistics and reasons, and you stand up and say, "Yo, that's racist," the media will come get a quote from you, and they'll give you a chance to frame it well, and ask you questions to help you frame it well, and you'll get as much coverage as he does, so it'll be like Joe Racist stood up and said this one sentence, and then Jane Avenger objected, and told us that Joe is racist for all these reasons and wow he's a terrible person. They WANT someone to speak up against it, and even if the racists dominated the meeting, you will get exactly as much ink as they do if you're willing to be quoted, and there's like 20 people at a zoning board meeting but like 50,000 getting the local paper so YOU WON.)

Part of the problem is that white people of my generation were largely raised that it's rude to talk about race (polite means pretending you're colorblind), which makes it really hard and really high-stakes to talk about racism in public settings; and part of it is that calling someone a racist was (until like really recently) pretty much the worst thing you could say in polite American society -- it's enormously stigmatizing (and once you introduce the accusation, 9 times out of 10 the conversation is now going to be about the fact that you called someone a racist, rather than whatever was being debated or the fact that someone is busy being a racist). So a lot of white centrist-to-liberal Midwesterners are really ill-equipped to deal with this crazy upsidedown America where Nazis are fucking proud of themselves, because they spent a long time being trained that polite people don't notice race, and that "racist" is the worst thing they can call someone. Combine 30 years of having that set of taboos profoundly ingrained, your general Midwestern Nice where public confrontation is terrifying, and the bystander effect, and people just freeze. If you can overcome your own fear and training to break the taboo and demolish the bystander effect, a lot of people will also speak up.

So this actually occurred to me when I was newly on the school board, way back when, and someone wrote a letter to the newspaper (really!) complaining that it was inappropriate for me to say "sucks" because I was a role model and I was expected to set community standards. This is probably not what they meant me to take from their letter, but I was like, "Huh. I guess I am. I guess I am." And decided to become a moral majority of one. We as a society invest a stupid amount of power in what white moms (in their assigned roles as proper Christian guardians of family morality) think about moral issues -- the evangelical right absolutely weaponized this -- and I was like, "If being a middle-aged white lady with children is going to turn me into a moral arbiter? I AM USING THIS POWER FOR AWESOME." So now I am up in people's faces all the time calling out bigotry with all the righteous offended dignity of motherhood. I am like the Angel of Awkwardness, who hears your horrifying opinion and instead of ignoring it politely as a good midwestern girl ought to, I call it out and demand you explain yourself and it gets hella awkward for everyone in the room (which I am fully aware is a form of torture for midwesterners). If I'm expected to set community standards? HELL YEAH I'm setting the standards for the community that I want to live in, and fuck the backwards patriarchal chucklefucks who weaponized white motherhood in defense of racism and homophobia and sexism, I hope you enjoy being hoist on your own petard as I turn my weaponized motherhood against you.

Anyway, if you carry privilege such that you're automatically looked at as any kind of community leader or moral arbiter, I urge you to strategically reverse-weaponize that privilege. (I mean, don't walk around all full of it all the time, but when you see a moment where someone needs to speak up and you know you'd be taken seriously because of your privilege, and it isn't possible or safe for others to speak up, SPEAK UP!)

But for everyone, if you feel like your neighbors are basically decent people, and nobody is speaking up, the bystander effect is a very powerful thing, and you might help a lot of scared people who want to say something but are afraid to be the first by speaking up. And as my critics used to tell me all the time, you need to set an example for the children. This totally isn't the example they meant, but they're super-right! I want the children of my community to see adults saying "OH HELL NO" to racists so I'm going to do that, as often as I have to. (I also find it a lot easier to speak up and possibly make an ass of myself when I frame it not as "I am the only person objecting to this and people are going to yell at me oh god oh god oh god" but as "there are children watching this and they need to see someone object to this, it's okay if I do a shitty job as long as I do it.")

Do it, and then memail me about how you shouted down the casual racist at the PTA meeting and made everything super-awkward and you did it for the children, and I will cheer you on!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:21 PM on November 25, 2017 [183 favorites]

Dave Weigel, writer for the Washington Post:

Look, it's bad form for a WaPo reporter to rib NYT, but they've quoted Matthew Heimbach in the news section seven times this year. Coverage of DSA's growth has been relegated to the opinion pages. Not comparing the two, just saying, more coverage of fringe right than new left.

Kate Aronoff, writer for In These Times:

Exactly! It's pretty glaringly awful to give uncritical reported coverage like this to far-right randos (they admit he's a rando!) and almost none to left organizers. DSA has ~30K members and the Traditionalist Workers Party or w/e has 1000

Larry Website, member of the DSA's National Political Committee:

we have a chapter organizing in the same place as them in Kentucky and it's larger than theirs. # of articles written about them: zero.

posted by Rustic Etruscan at 7:24 PM on November 25, 2017 [78 favorites]

it's just another example of how the new york times is part of the liberal media

fuckheads
posted by pyramid termite at 7:28 PM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

There are those who read rants like the one chris24 linked above and are like, surely America isn't THAT far gone?

We are a nation that is close to 250 years old. In that 240ish-year period, it took 4/5 of that before a person with brown skin was guaranteed the right to vote, to marry the white-skinned person of their choice, to go to certain public schools, to use the same doors and restaurants and water fountains and swimming pools as whites, to be able to check into motels with someone of another race, to not be discriminated against for employment or housing because of their race, and many similar and smaller battles.

You can put "guaranteed" in quotes up there because while the laws have finally been adjusted, many attitudes haven't. Injustices still happen regularly. Police killing black men and women without cause and escaping punishment continues. And 150 years after a war was fought over the right to own and sell those of African descent, we are still fighting people who want monuments and flags of that cause proudly displayed in public places.

Other groups have their own horrors to relate. Jews. LGBTs. Asians. Latinos. Immigrants in general. Women in general. Pretty much anyone who doesn't slot cleanly into the white Christian conservative male-dominated tribe gets their turns in the barrel.

It's not all Americans who think and act like this. We are capable of greatness when we are not stomping on our own crotches. But it is _not_ some tiny fringe thing; it is our history. It is our present. And rich conservatives have spent the last fifty years actively fanning those flames for their own financial benefit.

Is America that far gone? Some would say it never hasn't been. Even the racially privileged like myself can see the cliff and say, man, we are TEETERING on this edge. So when we see these attitudes and people being normalized in one of our flagship newspapers, being given legitimacy and normality even as they show off his little quirks... Yes, some of us will screech in ways that might seem overly loud.

But there is no maximum volume for pointing out evil and injustices as evil and injustices. And no journalists get free passes to forget that.
posted by delfin at 7:37 PM on November 25, 2017 [34 favorites]

This is an ongoing problem with the mainstream media. Back in the 2000s it was like:

Iraq war protests (huge, global, thousands of people): some people turned up or whatever? Now sports!

Tea party protests (small, local, like 30 jagoffs in tricorn hats): PATRIOTS RALLY AT CAPITOL! 26 bajillion hours of uninterrupted, uncontested coverage of their bullshit claims! Tell us in detail Bob about your grievances with the government while you open carry!

It’s been going on longer than that. It’s been going on way too long for it to not be a deliberate choice. See also how left wing protests are covered (ie five seconds to thousands of peaceful protesters, 5 minutes to one dude who set a trashcan on fire and broke a window).

Also because it’s 2017 and this is something you have to say explicitly now apparently - fuck antisemitism, fuck fascists, and fucking fuck Nazis. Fuck anyone who thinks they can play cute with this shit. I fucking see you, NYT.

My favorite doctor had to stop wearing her star of david this year and she advised her daughter to do the same because she didn’t feel like it was safe anymore. I will never ever forgive the people who actively or passively made this possible in 20-fucking-17.
posted by supercrayon at 7:38 PM on November 25, 2017 [76 favorites]

@realdonaldtrump: Wow, even I didn’t realize we did so much. Wish the Fake News would report! Thank you.

MAGA PILL 🏵️ @MAGAPILL
Replying to @realDonaldTrump and @FoxNews
THE President Donald Trump Accomplishment List Website
#AmericaFirst
magapill.com

---

Here's an example of the thinking at that site:

Interesting 'Flow Chart' of #TheSwamp
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 7:38 PM on November 25, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here's an example of the thinking at that site:

@JuddLegum (ThinkProgress)
1. So the POTUS recommended http://MagaPill.com today. Compared it favorably to mainstream sources. So let's talk about MagaPill. Trump recommends reading this insane website
2. Hours before the Trump endorsement, MagaPill tweeted a video claiming that there is a sex tape with Hillary Clinton and an underage girl on Anthony Weiner's laptop
3. MagaPill also recently tweeted out a chart which links “false flag terrorism,” “organ harvesting,” “child/human sacrifice,” “weaponize forced vaccination” and “earthquake machines.” THIS WEBSITE WAS ENDORSED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
4. MagaPill also has a recent post on "spirit cooking," which is a conspiracy theory linked to the Pizzagate stuff. And some conspiracy theories on the Vegas shooting
5. Let's be clear, by endorsing this site, Trump is legitimizing these ideas and energizing the people behind them
6. This is not just reckless, it's dangerous. It wasn't so long ago that a guy opened fire on a pizza parlor in DC
posted by chris24 at 7:44 PM on November 25, 2017 [78 favorites]

Jesus fucking christ these giant walls of text, when will a moderator step ... oh.
posted by Dumsnill at 7:59 PM on November 25, 2017 [8 favorites]

Johnny Wallflower: An alternate take on that tweet:

J. M. Berger (@intelwire): In cybersecurity news, you can get the President of the United States to click on a link from his phone by praising him.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:03 PM on November 25, 2017 [101 favorites]

I went to the MAGAPILL flowchart to look for Soros and the Rothschilds and they did not disappoint.
posted by Justinian at 8:16 PM on November 25, 2017 [5 favorites]

Don't underestimate the power of a dedicated PR person in spawning news stories. The reporter gets a nearly fully formed story and has to do little to no legwork. If a group of 30 people has a PR contact, it's probably Koch-funded AstroTurf.
posted by benzenedream at 8:24 PM on November 25, 2017 [2 favorites]

We're agreed though right in that this is no way to run a modern democracy of 300 million people?
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:44 PM on November 25, 2017 [4 favorites]

haha I said 'modern democracy'
posted by tivalasvegas at 8:44 PM on November 25, 2017 [6 favorites]

Anyway, you know what neither me nor my mother nor any other Midwestern mom I know do? COMPLIMENT A NAZI ON THEIR NICE MANNERS. It's not the Midwestern rubes here who are so enamored of the manners of the polite Nazis, it's the fucking sophisticated New York Times.

For the record - many of us actual New Yorkers aren't impressed with the manners of the Nazis either. Even better - we have no problem using our New York manners to tell them so.

(Eyebrows McGee offered to tell off any Nazis for anyone; I'd like to make the same offer, and can tailor my response either so that I am channeling the polite Boston-brahman manners of my New England ancestors, or the current New York manners I have now.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:45 PM on November 25, 2017 [18 favorites]

Soros and the Rothschilds played at my prom in '83.
posted by kirkaracha at 9:00 PM on November 25, 2017 [13 favorites]

haha, that security thread

"Nobody's going to burn a _whole_ zero day for this guy's phone."
posted by idiopath at 9:04 PM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

Peace came to the Middle East while we weren't watching: US backtracks on decision to close Palestinian office in DC

It was a stupid decision to start with but reversing it with no context just underscores the fact that the Trump administration is spinning in circles.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:03 PM on November 25, 2017 [7 favorites]

TPM: The U.S. Office of Special Counsel confirmed it is opening an investigation into a possible Hatch Act violation by Conway after she weighed in on the Alabama Senate race in an interview with Fox News.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:40 PM on November 25, 2017 [40 favorites]

I went to the MAGAPILL flowchart to look for

Opus Dei

and they did not disappoint
posted by dhartung at 11:59 PM on November 25, 2017 [1 favorite]

> We're agreed though right in that this is no way to run a modern democracy of 300 million people?

<libertarian>WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY WE ARE A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC</libertarian>
posted by runcifex at 1:17 AM on November 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Technically, we are a shithole.
posted by maxwelton at 1:52 AM on November 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

...but a massively successful shithole, both militarily and economically.

Which brings us to one of the evil photoshop geniuses at b3ta.com's version of an upcoming Time magazine cover.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:04 AM on November 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

In that NYT article, nazi-guy is described as someone who is polite towards white people and likes cats. He isn't wearing a nazi uniform, actually he looks like your average hipster. That's the point! If we teach our kids that evil always comes in a uniform and hates old ladies and cats, they won't be able to see it when it arrives. Specially, they won't be able to see it in themselves.
Nazism and facsism rose to power because they had support from millions of ordinary people. I've met several of them. None of them ran about wearing uniforms and screaming hate — they were all polite, friendly and ordinary. That was what was scary about them.
My granddad once invited me to a Madonna concert, but I declined. I told him that I found her music banal and the crowds stupid. (This was during the 80's). That was the point, he said. He wanted to see (show me) how a lot of ordinary, even conformist people could get all whipped up in a frenzy by a charismatic person saying nonsense. At the time, I didn't pay much attention, totalitarianism wasn't really a threat in Western Europe in the 80's and he was probably responding to me asking how people could fall for Hitler, who seemed so obviously ridiculous. Also: come on, you can't be saying that Madonna fans are nazis???
But in retrospect, he was always trying to tell me that yes, under certain circumstances, Madonna fans could be nazis, as could smart people and popular people. He had travelled in Germany before the war, first for business and then to save family members out, so he had first hand experience of the situation there. Also people in his social circle at home had been anti-semitic and flirted with nazi ideology and they weren't shouty, uniformed types. They went on to become writers and critics and highly esteemed members of polite society after the war and their vile early support of nazism was only made known in public after my granddad passed away.
So when I read the article, I didn't think "well, the nazis aren't that scary", I thought "woah, now it gets scary!" Don't be scared of nazis wearing uniforms and marching, be scared of nazis that look and talk like your sweet hipster cousin. I'll grant you all that my granddad isn't the editor of the NYTimes, though.
posted by mumimor at 2:27 AM on November 26, 2017 [45 favorites]

Here's my issue with the article:

The terrifying and mystifying angle to me is that people who describe themselves as leftists and or PoC would have anything to do with the profiled Nazi. I didn't see interviews with say, the interracial couples who he claimed came to his wedding. I'd would like the reporter to present his in-laws with his facebook statements and ask them what they feel about them and so on and hey are you cool with Hitler too. That to me would be fascinating/horrifying.

So, while the piece illustrates this Nazi THINKS he's liked by all different stripes, I'm just not convinced. Like, maybe the interracial couple who went to his wedding think that he's scum but they went to the wedding for some compelling reason.

The article sure did put me off Cincinnati, tho
posted by angrycat at 2:57 AM on November 26, 2017 [20 favorites]

Why not try to rewrite history and reject something he admitted to over a year ago as fake? He literally has nothing to lose. Especially when there is a high likelihood of him needing to deny the validity of tapes that come out in the future.

I eagerly await his deposition in Summer Zervos v. Donald J. Trump, and like to think that since her statement includes the allegation (Trigger Warning! Cannot Unsee.) that he came out of the bathroom nude, that the court might order him to submit photos of his body, for the plaintiff to identify. ( see also: Michael Jackson )

Consistently lacking self-awareness, and unable to listen to his attorney's explanations, Donald Trump has no idea what a world of hurt he's in. These criminal investigations and lawsuits going on don't do the "Settlement + NDA" like Jane Doe v. Trump/Epstein likely did. ( Fuck you Federal Civil Procedure Rule 41. Fuck you. ( Oh, and when it counts, it appears Trumps lawyers *ARE* competent, that they played that card... ) )
posted by mikelieman at 3:32 AM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

On the very sympathetic, humanizing, puff piece the NYT had about a Nazi, can anyone imagine the NYT doing a similar puff piece about a BLM supporter? Or a member of Black Bloc? Or an Antifa activist? Or hell, just a plain old union organizer?

Because I can't.

The "liberal media" is always, without fail, vicious and aggressive to the left, but extremely sympathetic to the right.

It doesn't surprise me to see the NYT writing sympathetic human interest style puff pieces about Nazis. It disgusts me, but it doesn't surprise me. The NYT doubtless thinks of itself as a bastion of thoughtful liberalism, but it isn't. It's Quisling at best.

Can you imagine **ANY** mainstream news outlet in the USA, not just the NYT but any "serious" news outlet, giving such sympathetic coverage to aggressive leftists? I can't.
posted by sotonohito at 5:12 AM on November 26, 2017 [47 favorites]

The NYT doubtless thinks of itself as a bastion of thoughtful liberalism, but it isn't. It's Quisling at best.

Oh cut the crap. There are plenty of reasons to criticize NYT, but this is just nonsense.
posted by Dumsnill at 5:31 AM on November 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

Can you imagine **ANY** mainstream news outlet in the USA, not just the NYT but any "serious" news outlet, giving such sympathetic coverage to aggressive leftists? I can't.

Not now, but they ran plenty back when the radical left had a similar role to that of the radical right today.
posted by mumimor at 5:41 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

I find the suggested equivalence between the NYT article on the Nazi-next-door and the non-existent one on BLM, or Anti-fa, or what have you, bizarre. How would that look? Your neighbour appears normal and polite but actually lives a secret life protesting extra-judicial killing by cops? Huh? The hate shown here for one article in a newspaper that has many kinds of article is problematic in its own way.

Is it just me or have the mega-political threads degenerated from the breathless urgent recounting of the destruction of the American institutions (in which process we all have a stake) to a purer-than-thou forum for expressing condemnation without nuance, castigation without context, and damnation without deliberation. I've followed every thread since Nov 8 last year, but of late, I have had to back off and skip lots. The outrage over Al Franken appeared to this MeFite as the hoots of an unthinking mob. Things were good or bad and that was it.

The use of the term Nazi is another example of the dumbing down of the debate here. Nazis were German fascists. There is a new breed in town, and they are more complicated than the enemy in Castle Wolfenstein. Mere condemnation becomes a pyre on which we will all burn, if not checked.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:55 AM on November 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

As usual, MAD Magazine was prescient when they printed a series of "Future Groundbreaking Sitcoms" decades ago...
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:56 AM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump
The last thing we need in Alabama and the U.S. Senate is a Schumer/Pelosi puppet who is WEAK on Crime, WEAK on the Border, Bad for our Military and our great Vets, Bad for our 2nd Amendment, AND WANTS TO RAISES TAXES TO THE SKY. Jones would be a disaster!
5:52 AM - 26 Nov 2017

So he's definitely going all in for the child molester.
posted by Dumsnill at 5:59 AM on November 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

Elizabeth Warren, The American Prospect: Don’t Let Wall Street Run Amok (11/21/2017)

The next leader of the CFPB will determine whether the agency continues to fight for consumers—continues to put real money back in the pockets of American families—or whether it will be another industry lapdog that lets the biggest banks run wild.

The CFPB doesn’t have a ready-made lobbying group. It can’t call on deep-pocket Wall Street banks to persuade their friends in Congress to support the agency. Instead, it is up to us. Up to us to demand that this agency continue its mission of protecting consumers. To demand that Donald Trump not appoint some industry hack or bought-and-paid-for politician to lead this great agency. To demand someone with a demonstrated track record of protecting consumers and holding financial firms accountable. To demand a government that stands up for fairness and for America’s families.

posted by ZeusHumms at 6:02 AM on November 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

The use of the term Nazi is another example of the dumbing down of the debate here. Nazis were German fascists.

better write the new york times and tell them they're using the term nazi incorrectly, then
posted by pyramid termite at 6:04 AM on November 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

Nazis were German fascists. Nazism is also an ideology alive and well today in the world and in the United States. You can tell by the people walking around with swastikas and calling themselves fucking Nazis.
posted by chris24 at 6:05 AM on November 26, 2017 [74 favorites]

I beg to differ. Donning a swastika does not transplant you from 2017 America with all that that entails and situate you back in 1930s Germany. If you use the name as if a Richard Spencer was equivalent to an agitator in 1930's Bavaria, then you are not thinking, and you are doing us a disservice.
posted by stonepharisee at 6:10 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

And those German fascist Nazis were more complicated than Castle Wolfenstein too. Nazis weren't some one time, one place unique evil.

@JonathanNichol4
Auschwitz staff having fun between mass murder.

Not evil nutcases.

Merely following an ideology they believed in.

Even more frightening

PIC
posted by chris24 at 6:11 AM on November 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

When you split hairs, you split hairs with Hitler.
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:11 AM on November 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Alt-America: the time for talking about white terrorism is now.
In American public life today there is an alternative dimension, a mental space beyond fact or logic, where the rules of evidence are replaced by paranoia. It is a space that has been opened up and fortified in no small part by rightwing media, and that has proven fertile ground for domestic terrorism.
posted by adamvasco at 6:13 AM on November 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

If you use the name as if a Richard Spencer was equivalent to an agitator in 1930's Bavaria, then you are not thinking, and you are doing us a disservice.

@JasminMuj
The NYT Nazi fluff text is only further proof that, at a fundamental level, large segments of the US intelligentsia do not appreciate the existential crisis now facing their republic. In short, they’re not actually concerned — and they really should be.
- You can only really write pieces like that if you’re convinced that the violence which these extremists represent, and engineer, will never touch you. Likely because you’re white, wealthy, and mobile and they’ll probably target vulnerable, static “minorities”.
- The form is very familiar to me from the Balkans. It was rampant during the 1990s: Karadzic gave interviews to Western media every other day, there’s hours of footage. In the meantime, he was murdering thousands. But hey, dead Bosnians are so “other” and his English was great.
- Now the fascists are in the US, they’re in the UK, they’re in the EU and sober ur-journalists roll their eyes at the alarmists who tell you that the normalization of extremism, illiberalism, and violence never ends well — not even in established democratic regimes.
- But trust your gut: trust that sick, queasy feeling you’ve had for months, trust your anxiety, and trust the fear you see in your neighbors eyes. All is not well, and everything won’t be OK. Not unless both ordinary citizens and responsible politicians act today.
- Don’t go down the road where the normalization of hate speech leads to (more) deaths and then tit-for-tat reprisals. That’s when the wheels truly fall off and no think people piece will help then. And we’re too close to that as it is. Closer than the NYT can admit. /xx
posted by chris24 at 6:15 AM on November 26, 2017 [77 favorites]

There are not only two options: normalization and condemning as a Nazi. There is the more difficult option of understanding the present challenge in the complexity of the current situation. The role of radio and newspaper in Germany is different from the role of radio and TV in the Balkans which is drastically different from the role of TV and internet in the US. To point to the complexity is not to normalize. It is to step up to the plate and recognize that this is our problem, not a game of spot-the-bad-guy. If you were to go back to Germany in the 30's there would be little advantage in pointing at everyone who bought into some aspect of the dominant ideology. You would do much better to figure out how it spreads, what ways it digs into the daily lives of people who are just getting on with things.
posted by stonepharisee at 6:20 AM on November 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

I mean it's not like people dismissed Hitler or thought he was a joke like Spencer.

NYT: "But several reliable, well-informed sources confirmed the idea that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was not so genuine or violent as it sounded, and that he was merely using anti-Semitic propaganda as a bait to catch masses of followers and keep them aroused, enthusiastic, and in line for the time when his organization is perfected and sufficiently powerful to be employed effectively for political purposes.

A sophisticated politician credited Hitler with peculiar political cleverness for laying emphasis and over-emphasis on anti-Semitism, saying: “You can’t expect the masses to understand or appreciate your finer real aims. You must feed the masses with cruder morsels and ideas like anti-Semitism. It would be politically all wrong to tell them the truth about where you really are leading them.”
posted by chris24 at 6:23 AM on November 26, 2017 [27 favorites]

AND WANTS TO RAISES TAXES TO THE SKY.

Oh Donald, you never disappoints.
posted by Dumsnill at 6:31 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

The normalization of fascism is real, and dangerous. But the danger doesn't lie in a portrait of a self-declared nazi. In this weekend's NYTimes, Maureen Dowd letting her brother speak was much worse. That Matt Bauerlein comment linked above is much worse when it comes to normalization. They are worse because these are the guys who are voting for Trump and legitimizing Trump, even though he is clearly corrupt, a racist and a criminal who may well also be fascist.
posted by mumimor at 6:38 AM on November 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

From the orange twitter feed:
.@FoxNews is MUCH more important in the United States than CNN, but outside of the U.S., CNN International is still a major source of (Fake) news, and they represent our Nation to the WORLD very poorly. The outside world does not see the truth from them!

Obama ethics chief warns Trump: Tweet on CNN could be evidence in AT&T case (Max Greenwood, The Hill)

Norm Eisen, the chief White House ethics lawyer under former President Barack Obama, warned President Trump on Saturday that his latest tweet targeting CNN could be used against his Justice Department in its legal fight to block AT&T's merger with Time Warner.

"Dear Dodo-in-Chief: u realize that this tweet is going 2be an exhibit against u in the DOJ -TimeWarner antitrust case right? It also smacks of collusion since u did it on day when Vlad cracked down on US networks," Eisen tweeted. "For that reason, it may open u to other civil liability."

posted by Room 641-A at 6:38 AM on November 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

NYT: If the Charlottesville rally came as a shock, with hundreds of white Americans marching in support of ideologies many have long considered too vile, dangerous or stupid to enter the political mainstream, it obscured the fact that some in the small, loosely defined alt-right movement are hoping to make those ideas seem less than shocking for the “normies,” or normal people, that its sympathizers have tended to mock online.


No, it's not 'many have considered'. All of humanity except for fucking Nazis think - no, they know - it's a genocidal, evil ideology that's beyond the pale.


NYT: He declared the widely accepted estimate that six million Jews died in the Holocaust “overblown.”


No, it's not 'widely accepted'. That makes it sound like it's open to debate like they fucking think climate change is. It's a fact. And the link under widely accepted estimate is to a paywalled Haaratz page. So they can't see the data, and they have no fucking idea what Haaratz is.
posted by chris24 at 6:40 AM on November 26, 2017 [46 favorites]

Stonepharisee: Your lame pedantry contributes nothing. What is your point? You tell people they need to understand “how it spreads”? It spreads through lame normalizing puff pieces and people like you “but actually-ing” American Neo-Nazis. How about this. Every time you see “Nazi” recognize that it is a widely accepted term in american to describe neo-nazis. There, now stop it. Never have that stupid fucking argument again.

I see so many people (and frankly to me people that say stuff like that are assholes) who care so much more about mislabeling white racists than they do about what the racists are doing. You know who is allowing it to spread? You are, right now.
posted by cyphill at 6:41 AM on November 26, 2017 [63 favorites]

Metafilter: There, now stop it. Never have that stupid fucking argument again.
posted by perspicio at 6:45 AM on November 26, 2017 [33 favorites]

@mattmfm
Black women play a significantly more powerful role in America's political system than white supremacists, yet media organizations keep choosing to profile the latter and not the former. Why?
posted by chris24 at 6:49 AM on November 26, 2017 [72 favorites]

The Making of an American Nazi
posted by lumnar at 6:50 AM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Nazis were German fascists.

If it walks like a duck steps like a goose, it's a duck Nazi.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:53 AM on November 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

As wiser people than me have said, when people tell you who they are, believe them.

We must stop refusing to believe that people who say horrible things mean what they say. Because at least some of them will progress from words to deeds to prove how serious they are.
posted by emjaybee at 7:04 AM on November 26, 2017 [24 favorites]

From the orange twitter feed:
.@FoxNews is MUCH more important in the United States than CNN, but outside of the U.S., CNN International is still a major source of (Fake) news, and they represent our Nation to the WORLD very poorly. The outside world does not see the truth from them!

@jmclaughlinSAIS (Former FBI Director)
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
If you favor CNN OR Fox and are not dismayed by this, you may now be numb and no longer capable of outrage. Scary if that’s our new normal.
- Compare to Jefferson “were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter”.

@GenMhayden (Former CIA and NSA Director)
Replying to @jmclaughlinSAIS
If this is who we are or who we are becoming, I have wasted 40 years of my life. Until now it was not possible for me to conceive of an American President capable of such an outrageous assault on truth, a free press or the first amendment.

@Evan_McMullin
Retweeted Donald J. Trump
CNN International has long been an important example of the free press to the world. By attacking it, Trump is doing his dictator buddies abroad a favor by undermining those who would hold them accountable.

@TheRickWilson
Trump and Putin both attack the international media on the same day.
Coincidence?
I think not.

@davidfrum
Inside the US, CNN’s reporting is protected by the First Amendment and the courts. Outside the US, US-affiliated journalists do ultimately depend on the protection of the US government. Trump’s words are a direct attack on those international journalists' freedom & even safety
- He’s inviting rogue regimes & other bad actors all over the world to harass - or worse - CNN journalists with impunity from the government of the United States.
posted by chris24 at 7:08 AM on November 26, 2017 [101 favorites]

Maureen Dowd's brother - He has 43.2 million Twitter followers. The New York Times has 3.1 million subscribers.

so, donald trump probably has more followers who have to spell out his tweets with their lips than the new york times has subscribers
posted by pyramid termite at 7:14 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Making of an American Nazi

This is how you profile a Nazi.
posted by chris24 at 7:15 AM on November 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

The TwitterAudit graph has recalculated itself since the 11 Minutes of Bliss event.

He only has 22 million Twitter followers, at best.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:17 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

so, donald trump probably has more followers who have to spell out his tweets with their lips than the new york times has subscribers

You are writing what I was thinking! Perhaps the greatest international succes of the conservative movement is the dumbing down of entire populations through a deliberate and long-running education policy. If you want change, go at the school boards, and keep going.
posted by mumimor at 7:21 AM on November 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

The NYTimes also has over 40 million twitter followers. I certainly could do without the sharing of mass media platforms with entirely uninformed racist nobodies. Especially when objectivity apparently dictates printing their claims wholesale.
posted by cyphill at 7:29 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

(Guardian, not their chosen title): Susan Sarandon Still Awful. Here's an Interview to Make You Barf.

Did she really say that Hillary was more dangerous than Trump?

“Not exactly, but I don’t mind that quote,” she says. “I did think she was very, very dangerous. We would still be fracking, we would be at war. It wouldn’t be much smoother. Look what happened under Obama that we didn’t notice.”

It seems absurd to argue that healthcare, childcare, taxation for the non-rich wouldn’t be better now under President Clinton, and that’s before we get to the threat of deportation hanging over millions of immigrants. “She would’ve done it the way Obama did it,” says Sarandon, “which was sneakily. He deported more people than have been deported now. How he got the Nobel peace prize I don’t know. I think it was very important to have a black family in the White House and I think some of the stuff he did was good. He tried really hard about healthcare. But he didn’t go all the way because of big pharma.”
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:54 AM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

WTF Nancy?

Chuck Todd: "Conyers - in or out?"

Nancy Pelosi: "We are strengthened by due process. Was it one accusation or two? John Conyers is an icon in our country."

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 8:08 AM on November 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Susan Sarandon is still parroting the exact same talking points from many of the Stein-or-stay-home folks here in Michigan who helped throw the state (and thus the electoral college) to Trump. Oddly, most of these talking points we now know were spread on social media by foreign agents and others attempting to hobble Clinton and elevate Trump.

It’s infuriating. Go away, Ms. Sarandon.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:09 AM on November 26, 2017 [58 favorites]

Sarandon: “I’m not attacked from the right at all.”

Gee I wonder why? Useful idiots gonna idiot, I guess.
posted by chris24 at 8:11 AM on November 26, 2017 [21 favorites]

Sarandon three years from now, as she's loaded into an unmarked Freedom Van by red-capped Trump Youth: "If Clinton were president, this same exact thing would be happening, only more sneaky! Like with Obama! Google Pizzagate!" [van door shuts]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:19 AM on November 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

Donning a swastika does not transplant you from 2017 America with all that that entails and situate you back in 1930s Germany.

That's as may be. However, a person donning a swastika seems to indicate that the wearer wishes they could transefer themselves back into 1930s Germany, which is itself indicative of where their own sentiments lie - which is itself problematic.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:35 AM on November 26, 2017 [24 favorites]

Black women play a significantly more powerful role in America's political system than white supremacists, yet media organizations keep choosing to profile the latter and not the former. Why?

Because as more and more black women become estranged from the Republican Party, their voting Democratic or staying home is a foregone conclusion. Like it or not, as minorities galvanize in their voting patterns in their acts of survival and voting against people who don’t consider them human, white people become the kingmakers in this country.

Nobody wants to hear about the people you can already make a fairly accurate educated guess about. They want to know what that fickle, goldfish sized memory of white America is thinking.
posted by Talez at 8:39 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

John Conyers is an icon in our country."

"And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy."
posted by Pope Guilty at 8:45 AM on November 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

John Conyers is an icon in our country."

"And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy."

Yep. Everybody should watch the video. It's worse than it reads. She's as bad here as any Republican defending Moore. She won't even say she believes the accusers.

Chuck Todd: “Do you believe John Conyers’ accusers?”

Nancy Pelosi: “I don’t know who they are. Do you? They have not really come forward."

Not come forward? One filed suit, one reached a settlement, one talked to the Post.
posted by chris24 at 8:53 AM on November 26, 2017 [47 favorites]

Because as more and more black women become estranged from the Republican Party, their voting Democratic or staying home is a foregone conclusion.

Most elections are won and lost based on who shows up and who stays home. Black women haven't voted for Republicans in large numbers for a long time, but they're a really important part of the Democratic base because they reliably show up for elections. When they don't, Democrats lose. They're also an important voice in Democratic primaries in a lot of places.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 8:57 AM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

I haven't seen data on this, but my sense also is that Democratic volunteers are disproportionately black women.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:03 AM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Ah, Pelosi, the iconic face of the "electable" Democrats. Keep it all very moderate and maybe we can bi-partisan this all out without shaking too many boats, that's the way to do it.
posted by Artw at 9:08 AM on November 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

NYT: Culling Voter Rolls: Battling Over Who Even Gets to Go to the Polls

Warning: the but-both-sides-ism is strong in this article, with almost no follow-up on the claims of advocates of extreme voter roll-culling, despite the tons of evidence that points out the often-racist or partisan purposes of it.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:17 AM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

In the spirit of open-mindedness and the validity of speaking one's own mind without demonizing others' views that prevails here [straight face], I submit that Nancy Pelosi's clear advocacy for due process is right, proper, and essential. And also that she rocks, and I hope she becomes Speaker of the House again.
posted by perspicio at 9:22 AM on November 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

I like Pelosi. I'm usually one of the ones here supporting her. She's great with legislation and keeping the caucus unified. That said, yes due process is important, but we're not talking about someone going to jail. We're talking fitness for continued office. He's already settled at least once. He has multiple credible accusers.

I get that with the "he's an icon" and "he'll do the right thing" she's going for the gold watch nudge as someone called it on Twitter, but with her terrible performance today, she just ceded any moral high ground Dems might have over Trump's endorsement of Moore this morning on Twitter. And given Alabama voters another excuse to vote for Moore.

And per multiple reports, Conyers is in cognitive decline so losing him would not be a big loss, even if his icon status as a legislator was in any way relevant to being a harasser. (Though this decline may be part of the kid gloves treatment from Pelosi, but it's still wrong.)
posted by chris24 at 9:34 AM on November 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

NBC Politics, JUST IN: Rep. John Conyers announces that he is stepping down as Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee during ethics committee investigation. Conyers has a statement where he continues to deny all allegations.
posted by gladly at 9:35 AM on November 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

What is happening in the States and around the world is terrifying and these threads capture and reflect that. But they also have their own dynamic of escalation. I think there is room between resisting normalization and being a fanatic.
posted by dmh at 9:35 AM on November 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

The Times responds to the Nazi controversy.

If your only defense of your lack of moral clarity on a Nazi is that you described him as a bigot and FB poster of happy white people images, you may have a problem.

Our reporter and his editors agonized over the tone and content of the article. The point of the story was not to normalize anything but to describe the degree to which hate and extremism have become far more normal in American life than many of us want to think.

We described Mr. Hovater as a bigot, a Nazi sympathizer who posted images on Facebook of a Nazi-like America full of happy white people and swastikas everywhere.

We understand that some readers wanted more pushback, and we hear that loud and clear.

posted by chris24 at 9:44 AM on November 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

The author of the NYT piece on the Nazi in Cincinnati has written a follow up: I Interviewed a White Nationalist and Fascist. What Was I Left With?

There is a hole at the heart of my story about Tony Hovater, the white nationalist and Nazi sympathizer.

I agree that there is a hole in that story, and I don't think the follow up fills it. The author, Richard Fausset, grew up in New Orleans, went to University of Texas at Austin, is based in Atlanta and covers the south, so he can't be called a NYC elitist. I don't really understand the purpose of a story like this at all, unless it was in the context of profiles of all different kinds of political activists in the south. At best, it is a footnote.

As a NYC elitist myself /sarcasm, I'm actually much more interested in the types of people you don't get to hear much about, like white men with interesting facial hair who hate Roy Moore, or the middle-aged women who have been yelling at their representatives at townhalls.
posted by maggiemaggie at 9:47 AM on November 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

Our reporter and his editors agonized over the tone and content of the article. The point of the story was not to normalize anything but to describe the degree to which hate and extremism have become far more normal in American life than many of us want to think.

Seems like a perfect time to take a stand against it rather than helping it along.
posted by Gelatin at 9:48 AM on November 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

Not to be too pedantic about my adopted hometown but the Nazi is a resident of a northern suburb of Dayton, not Cincinnati.
posted by mmascolino at 9:55 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Nancy Pelosi: "We are strengthened by due process. Was it one accusation or two? John Conyers is an icon in our country."

Due process is for our legal system. Standards can be "Beyond Reasonable Doubt" and "Preponderance of Evidence"

However, I see nothing that says that I can't use "avoids even the appearance of impropriety" as a standard of who should represent me in elected office. And that's what I use.
posted by mikelieman at 10:00 AM on November 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

To be fair, it is important to be geographically correct about our friendly neighborhood nazis.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:02 AM on November 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

Nazis Are Just Like You and Me, Except They're Nazis
The Atlantic's take on the Times article

Some people disagree with Stevenson’s political views.

“He’s a nice enough guy,” said the local grocer, Butch Tarmac, a registered Democrat. “He buys apples and pancake mix. I also like those things. But I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on the bit about the one true race cleansing the soil and commanding what is rightfully theirs.”
...
“Hitler gets a bad rap, but he was a pretty righteous dude,” he says, half addressing me, and half addressing his four wide-eyed children. We’re all crammed into the booth like a bunch of sardines. He tells me to only refer to him and his Nazi friends as “The Traditionalist Worker Party,” and I agree to do that.

posted by kirkaracha at 10:02 AM on November 26, 2017 [37 favorites]

Do you want Nazis? Because that’s how you get Nazis.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:14 AM on November 26, 2017 [22 favorites]

If you want to write about the Aw-Shucks Normal Nazi Next Door, this is how you do it:

Vinay Menon, Toronto Star: Confessions of a repentant white supremacist

“I don’t know if you’re a Trump fan,” Galloway says, as I nearly fall out of my chair. “But the guy down south there is enabling this stuff, I believe, by allowing it to be normalized.”

Galloway believes many prejudiced eyes see Trump as both a modern day prophet and a warrior who is fighting for the white side. Trump has more dog whistles than you’d find inside the Westminster Kennel Club.

In rhetoric and by tweet, Galloway thinks Trump is making hate great again.

“The movement is growing because of the normalized message coming from the United States,” he says. “It’s so often that people are latching on to this.”

These days the racists can also look downright presentable. When Galloway was a white supremacist, he radiated menace. But now it seems like white nationalists have sauntered into view from the set of What Not to Wear: Aryan Edition.

The requisite shaved heads from Galloway’s days have given way to stylish fades and pomade parts worthy of a red carpet. The ominous Skrewdriver T-shirts and puffy jackets with S.S. insignias are now chinos, crisp shirts and, in some cases, tailored business wear that radiates Brooks Brothers.

“But these pseudopolitical, suit-wearing, polo shirt-wearing white supremacists — I mean, it’s still the same thing,” says Galloway. “It’s the same deal.”

It ends with:

And if a wavering white supremacist is reading this, Galloway has one last message.

“You can get out. Just leave it behind. What’s the point? Think about it. Just stop and think for a second about what this is getting you and what you are losing. You’re not going to get your white country. That’s delusional. It’s all delusional.”

posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 10:29 AM on November 26, 2017 [36 favorites]

"If me and my friends had our way, we'd slit your throats and bury you in a shallow unmarked grave, but thanks for focusing on my lasagna recipe, reporters."
posted by benzenedream at 10:30 AM on November 26, 2017 [24 favorites]

Seeing Nancy's comments re: Conyers is as much proof as I need to know that the answer to the question "is our Democrats learning?" is an emphatic "no". The GOP is drowning, and she's building an inflatable life yacht for them.

I've been as staunch a defender of Pelosi as anyone, especially when a bunch of opportunists in the caucus were trying to replace her with a Trump-curious white guy from Ohio, but there comes a point where a politician's liability when speaking to the press is greater than the scope of their contributions to the party on a day-to-day basis, and that is clearly the case here. If the Democrats have any sort of leadership at the top of the party -- hey, I see you giggling over there, Ron Howard! -- they need to be better about this shit, starting with an unequivocal zero tolerance policy on credible allegations of sexual assault -- regardless of what the perpetrator's resume looks like.

AUUUUUUUGH!
posted by tonycpsu at 10:34 AM on November 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

Do you want Nazis? Because that’s how you get Nazis.

We sprayed twice a year, we take out our trash regularly, we set up traps but the little bastards just keep coming back.
posted by delfin at 10:34 AM on November 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

My hunch is that they're trying to negotiate with Conyers to retire. He's almost 90 and in a safe Democratic district, and they'll probably tell him that they won't humiliate him by making a big deal of the harassment allegations as long as he doesn't run in 2018. I think that a lot of black voters would see a racial double standard if Conyers were publicly forced out and Franken weren't. I think they should both go, but my sense is that Franken is going to hold on.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:01 AM on November 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

And here's the thing that Richard Fausset missed... In his follow-up piece, "I Interviewed a White Nationalist and Fascist. What Was I Left With?", there's this nugget:

And yet what, of any of this, explained Mr. Hovater’s radical turn? What prompted him to take his ideas beyond his living room, beyond the chat rooms, and on to Charlottesville, where he marched in August alongside allies like the neo-Confederate League of the South and the Detroit-based National Socialist Movement, which bills itself as “America’s Premier White Civil Rights Organization”? Where was his Rosebud?

After I had filed an early version of the article, an editor at The Times told me he felt like the question had not been sufficiently addressed. So I went back to Mr. Hovater in search of answers. I still don’t think I really found them. I could feel the failure even as Mr. Hovater and I spoke on the phone, adding to what had already been hours of face-to-face conversation in and around his hometown New Carlisle, Ohio.

On the phone, Mr. Hovater responded to my question by rattling off names of libertarian academics, making references to sci-fi movies and describing, yet again, his frustration with what he described as the plodding and unjust nature of American democracy. As he did so, I was thinking about an album I grew up with by the Minutemen, the Southern California punk group, and its brilliantly koanic title: “What Makes a Man Start Fires?”

To me, that question embodies what good journalism should strive for, as well as the limits of the enterprise. Sometimes all we can bring you is the words of the police spokesman, the suspect’s picture from a high school yearbook, the acrid stench of the burned woods.

Sometimes a soul, and its shape, remain obscure to both writer and reader.

The answer here lies near Vinay Menon's article in The Toronto Star and upcoming documentary, Skinhead. You can't ask someone afflicted by delusions to explain how they became delusional. To them, it's normal and correct; the water a fish swims in. You can only ask them later, after they have recovered and taken a long, honest self-assessment of how they ended up where they did.

This is where Fausset messed up.

I do, however, apologize for previously calling Fausset a Nazi sympathizer.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:06 AM on November 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

they'll probably tell him that they won't humiliate him by making a big deal of the harassment allegations as long as he doesn't run in 2018.

an additional difficulty with conyers is his age/health, i think. his opponent questioned his mental fitness for another term back in 2014; rumours about ill health and cognitive issues date back before then as well. it's not an excuse, but i am left wondering whether age-related cognitive issues are behind some of conyers' inappropriate behaviour. if so, he may not even remember the events (which might explain his denials). that's going to make convincing him to step down of his own accord even more difficult. and, given that these issues were at least being talked about before his last term, the democrats are to blame for this situation, for not being more proactive with him or monitoring him.
posted by halation at 11:11 AM on November 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

The author, Richard Fausset, grew up in New Orleans, went to University of Texas at Austin, is based in Atlanta and covers the south, so he can't be called a NYC elitist.

References to "snide coastal elitism" in the media are themselves often anti-semitic dogwhistles. So if you want to criticize the article maybe it's best not to do it in terms that validate typical Trumpist attacks.
posted by neroli at 11:20 AM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

We sprayed twice a year, we take out our trash regularly, we set up traps but the little bastards just keep coming back.

From what I understand you have to punch them.
posted by rdr at 11:20 AM on November 26, 2017 [20 favorites]

Pelosi has a statement out on Conyers which is better. Though about anything is better than earlier.

"Zero tolerance means consequences. I have asked for an ethics investigation, and as that investigation continues, Congressman Conyers has agreed to step aside as Ranking Member.

As a woman and mother of four daughters, I particularly take any accusation of sexual harassment very seriously. Any credible accusation must be reviewed by the Ethics Committee expeditiously. We are at a watershed moment on this issue, and no matter how great an individual's legacy, it is not a license for harassment. I commend the brave women coming forward.

The House will act next week to mandate that all Members and staff undergo anti-harassment and anti-discrimination training. Next, Congress must move swiftly to reform the Office of Compliance and the Congressional Accountability Act to put an end to the days of secret settlements paid for by taxpayer dollars.

We must ensure the Congress has a climate of dignity and respect with zero tolerance for sexual harassment."

posted by chris24 at 11:23 AM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

> As a woman and mother of four daughters

This is only slightly less gross when a woman does it.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:25 AM on November 26, 2017 [27 favorites]

I kinda feel like it's more gross.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:30 AM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Some context the article could've used.

@HollaBlackGirl
Times piece on the Nazis is about people in Huber Heights, Ohio where I'm from. Know what else? My grandparents were the 1st black family to live in HH. They were welcomed by the KKK burning crosses on their lawn & later murdering my uncle. Good job @nytimes


And of course, the Nazis loved it.

@marincogan (New York mag)
I took a look at the NYT Nazi's Facebook page this morning. He and his friends seem pretty excited about the profile, and the backlash to it.
posted by chris24 at 11:43 AM on November 26, 2017 [60 favorites]

Hey Richard Fausset, Maybe There is No Rosebud, and Maybe That's the Problem

In the main story, Fausset writes:

[Hovater's] political evolution — from vaguely leftist rock musician to ardent libertarian to fascist activist — was largely fueled by the kinds of frustrations that would not seem exotic to most American conservatives. He believes the federal government is too big, the news media is biased, and that affirmative action programs for minorities are fundamentally unfair.

And maybe that's the reason Fausset couldn't find a Rosebud -- because within-the-pale conservative political thought is so close to Nazi thinking that moving from one to the other doesn't require a drastic change of perspective.

Ron Paul's libertarianism was a cesspool of bigotry and paranoia -- and yet he was portrayed as the kindly old purist in a couple of presidential contests, and his son was briefly described by the mainstream media as the most interesting man in politics. Believing that "the federal government is too big, the news media is biased, and ... affirmative action programs for minorities are fundamentally unfair" leads as easily to Nazism as it does to mainstream Republicanism. [...]

Becoming an out-and-out Nazi or racialist might make your life more difficult in America, but it doesn't require a massive ideological leap. You merely have to choose to live as a semi-outlaw. If you're like Hovater, you can easily blend in if you're reasonably well behaved most of the time and you're a quiet neighbor. And if you're lucky, a New York Times anthropologist-wannabe will come looking for you, to find out what makes you tick.

posted by tonycpsu at 11:47 AM on November 26, 2017 [65 favorites]

Pelosi has done a lot of good for the country but it's clear that she's part of the old guard (emphasis on old). Weed need new blood in the leadership. New blood that isn't eligible for Medicare yet.

I'll vote for whoever wins the nomination of course but it's time for these folks to retire from leadership or, in some cases, just plain retire (Conyers for example is known to be not all there). Pelosi, Feinstein, Conyers, Schumer, Sanders, Biden, etc. Time to go.
posted by Justinian at 11:50 AM on November 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

That said... while it isn't enough, Conyers being pushed out of his ranking member slot is the first actual consequence we've seen for any politico in DC from either party. That's an important first step. As long as thats all it is; the first step.
posted by Justinian at 11:54 AM on November 26, 2017 [14 favorites]

Former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mike Mullen was on ABC's This Week and didn't hold back.

On Kelly: I mean, certainly what happened very sadly a few weeks ago when he was in a position to both defend the president in terms of what happened with the gold star family and then he ends up — and John ends up politicizing the death of his own son in the wars. It is indicative of the fact that he clearly is very supportive of the president no matter what. And that, that was really a sad moment for me.

Does he recognize Flynn these days?: "No, I don't know the Mike Flynn that I have seen since he made a decision to endorse very strongly and publicly President Trump."

On nuclear war: "I think it's more probable than I it used to be. And it scares me to death, quite frankly. They're the most dangerous weapons in the world. And certainly if we have someone in North Korea that has a lethal legacy, is very, very unpredictable, and sees this as a way to solidify his future, that he could well not just attain them but potentially use them."

On refusing an order: "Well, I think any senior military officer always approaches it from the standpoint of we're not going to follow an illegal order. That said, the president is in a position to give a legal order to use those weapons. And the likelihood that given that order that it would be carried out I think would be pretty high."

posted by chris24 at 11:57 AM on November 26, 2017 [15 favorites]

> That's an important first step. As long as thats all it is; the first step.

But of course it's not -- you don't invoke a half-measure like that unless you want it to be the last measure. It's like how college sports programs caught breaking rules try to sanction themselves before the NCAA does.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:57 AM on November 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

I think I disagree. Conyers is out for good, they're just trying to do it gracefully in deference to the CBC which is one of the pillars of the Democratic coalition. I think that's a mistake and he should receive the boot quite publicly. But I do think this is just a first step.
posted by Justinian at 12:00 PM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

*sigh* Too many faces, not enough palms.

US pushes caveats at UN on condemning violence against women, children

The Trump administration is pushing for language in two separate U.N. resolutions on women and children that would only condemn violence in certain “unlawful,” circumstances rather than a blanket statement of “all forms” of violence.

It never ends with these people.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:30 PM on November 26, 2017 [52 favorites]

Sometimes I'm ashamed of how my elected representatives represent me internationally, but at least I'm not American.
posted by Dumsnill at 12:35 PM on November 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

It never ends with these people.

It’s truly incredible how determined they are to shit on everything that is in any way positive or humane.
posted by notyou at 12:41 PM on November 26, 2017 [39 favorites]

@AndyRichter
Seems like a lot of writers think it’s liberals’ job to sort out the Nazis from the conservatives. Are you a conservative who’s made sad by being lumped in w Nazis? Well, clean your fucking house. And be loud about it.
posted by chris24 at 1:40 PM on November 26, 2017 [131 favorites]

Donny's insecure and feeling the pressure. And goes full Jan Brady on Russia.

@realDonaldTrump
Since the first day I took office, all you hear is the phony Democrat excuse for losing the election, Russia, Russia,Russia. Despite this I have the economy booming and have possibly done more than any 10 month President. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

---

Well, if you count golfing and indictments, he has done more in 10 months than any other president.

In reality, he's passed no major legislation despite Rs controlling Congress, and even if you count the post office namings and other piddly shit, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, and Obama all signed more bills in the first 10 months.
posted by chris24 at 1:56 PM on November 26, 2017 [36 favorites]

US pushes caveats at UN on condemning violence against women, children

Russia is the only other country to previously adopt a similar same stance, lobbying to condemn “unlawful” violence — rather than all forms of violence — against women and children. Russia decriminalized some forms of domestic violence in January this year, making “moderate” violence in the home only an administrative offense.

posted by Room 641-A at 2:03 PM on November 26, 2017 [21 favorites]

I think Susan Sarandon needs to take a look a little to the right of Clinton in Obama's cabinet. Clinton was the Secretary of State. The person responsible for the wars was Defense Secretary Robert Gates, notorious for overseeing the politicization of the CIA that led to the report authorising the invasion of Iraq to search for non-existent WMDs.

Gates describes Clinton in interviews at the time as a newly-minted warmonger, but there's evidence to the contrary, notably in her attempts to peacefully resolve the war in Afghanistan documented in Serial.
posted by Merus at 2:05 PM on November 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

That’s another thing with the President that’s a special variety of irksome. He says the stupidest, bald faced lies that don’t hold up to a moment of consideration and he just keeps piling them up.

His tweet today about Jones’ record is a laundry list of 70s and 80s conservative criticisms of Democrats ( soft on crime, tax and spend, blah blah blah) that bears no connection to Jones (or anyone’s) actual record. It’s just bullshit he borrowed from last century.

Gah. That man.
posted by notyou at 2:06 PM on November 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

I know it's [real] but I still can't believe he actually tweeted 'Russia, Russia, Russia'.
posted by elsietheeel at 2:12 PM on November 26, 2017 [29 favorites]

within-the-pale conservative political thought is so close to Nazi thinking that moving from one to the other doesn't require a drastic change of perspective. [...] Believing that "the federal government is too big, the news media is biased, and ... affirmative action programs for minorities are fundamentally unfair" leads as easily to Nazism as it does to mainstream Republicanism.

This isn't true for the "federal government is too big" tenet, is it? I thought the German Nazis loved giant public works projects and social programs (ones that promoted the purity of the Aryan race by encouraging the right people to have children, for example.)

Where the idea does work is that Republicans don't really oppose the federal government being too big, that's entirely a pretense and they massively grow the federal government and federal debt and budget deficit every time they control the White House.
posted by XMLicious at 2:13 PM on November 26, 2017

This isn't true for the "federal government is too big" tenet, is it? I thought the German Nazis loved giant public works projects and social programs

Republicans don't hate government, they hate when it helps "those people." They'd be perfectly fine with programs for white people. The 1% who run the party might disagree about government - they use the welfare queen and other racists tropes to get the masses to vote against their interests - but the masses are fine with it. Trump's election showed it. He ran on (other than racism) basically a big public works program (THE WALL!!!), preserving Medicare/Medicaid/SS and replacing Obamacare with something better, not just getting rid of it.
posted by chris24 at 2:23 PM on November 26, 2017 [13 favorites]

Charlie Warzel, Buzzfeed: The New York Times Can't Figure Out Where Nazis Come From In 2017. Pepe Has An Answer.

[…] the internet appears to be the connective tissue that Hovater and his fellow white nationalists desire to grow the movement. Toward the end of the Times piece, Fausset hints at this but never makes the crucial connection. "If the Charlottesville rally came as a shock, with hundreds of white Americans marching in support of ideologies many have long considered too vile, dangerous or stupid to enter the political mainstream," he writes, "it obscured the fact that some in the small, loosely defined alt-right movement are hoping to make those ideas seem less than shocking for the 'normies.'”

But it's this crucial process of the normalization of political taboos — like calling the Jewish death toll in the Holocaust "overblown," as Hovater does in the Times piece — that takes place so effectively in the fever swamps of 4chan, Reddit, and countless blogs and message boards. If you listen closely you can hear it in the language of many in the movement. During Charlottesville, Daily Stormer features editor Robert Ray described the now-infamous protest to Vice News as white nationalists "stepping off the internet in a big way." And while it's certainly likely that the seeds of Hovater's white nationalism weren't planted or sown online, they continue to grow there, protected by a community.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:26 PM on November 26, 2017 [28 favorites]

It's not like people haven't been screaming about this shit since Gamergate and before, so for NYTimes to send its dumbest reporter and to be all "gee willikins, I don't know why we get nazis" is a little frustrating.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on November 26, 2017 [55 favorites]

Even for me, this tweetstorm is too much to post here in it's entirety, but it's a great breakdown and list with supporting links and info of what the Times could've done to make the Nazi article do what they claim they wanted to do.

Some snippets...

1/ The NYTimes is densely defending their article by claiming it was intended to shed light on the normalcy of racism in American society. I agree this is a worthy topic of discussion. So, let’s talk about all the things the Times could have *actually* achieved this. . . .
2/ First, what did they do wrong? Well, a lot of things. The article reads like a soft-focus profile of a racist who’s really just a normal dude w/ thoughts and feelings. You can write profiles like this about coal miners.
3/ If you are doing a profile of someone based on their ideology, your job is to get to the heart of that ideology. Your job is to challenge the subject to describe & defend their position. Your job is to then place that position w/in a broader socio-cultural context.
4/ Otherwise you are just giving a racist an unchallenged platform. The Times failed in many respects, but, above all, they failed by enthusiastically allowing Horvater to drive the narrative of his own white supremacy.
15/ And, though we got to see pictures of Horvater staring into the sunset, driving his car, and shopping (JUST LIKE YOU DO!), it would have been helpful if the Times had also provided images of what TWP's members look like when they're on duty: PIC
18/ And why didn’t the Times elaborate on Horvater’s Holocaust Denial? He has a David Irving book on his shelf. How many Jewish people does Horvater think were killed by the Nazis, for example?
19/ Or, what does Horvater think Hitlers "cause" was? And why does he distinguish between Himmler & Hitler? Did the Times ask ANY follow-up questions about this???!!!
20/ The Times could have, I dunno, done some research on whether or not pinpointing Himmler, while defending Hitler, is a common strategy amongst Holocaust deniers (Hint: IT IS.).
28/ Instead, the Times gave us a profile of a racist, his eyebrows, his ordinariness, and allowed that racist to drive the narrative. They didn't challenge him. They didn't place his ideology w/in a broader context. They just elevated him.
29/ Oh, and one more thing: If you are going to write about a person who participated in Charlottesville, there is one additional question you should really ask: "How do you feel about the murder of Heather Heyer?"
posted by chris24 at 2:48 PM on November 26, 2017 [124 favorites]

‘Normal America’ Is Not A Small Town Of White People

But that sense that the normal America is out there somewhere in a hamlet where they can’t pronounce “Acela” is misplaced. In fact, it’s not in a small town at all.

I calculated how demographically similar each U.S. metropolitan area is to the U.S. overall, based on age, educational attainment, and race and ethnicity.1 The index equals 100 if a metro’s demographic mix were identical to that of the U.S. overall.2
By this measure, the metropolitan area that looks most like the U.S. is New Haven, Connecticut, followed by Tampa, Florida, and Hartford, Connecticut.

What's normal and what's abnormal, who counts and who is counted, what do you mean when you say "Americans," - all these are questions that aren't asked enough, and once I started asking and getting the answers (or nonanswers) it was something I couldn't unsee.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 3:23 PM on November 26, 2017 [60 favorites]

Oh, and one more thing: If you are going to write about a person who participated in Charlottesville, there is one additional question you should really ask: "How do you feel about the murder of Heather Heyer?"

Not simply the murder of Heather Heyer. It was an attempted mass murder that left several beaten and one dead by an automotive weapon. Nineteen other people were injured in the terrorist attack. I'd sure like to see the Times do a follow up and profile of all the people who were run over, including the details of their injuries and their medical bills. I won't hold my breath though.
posted by srboisvert at 3:37 PM on November 26, 2017 [55 favorites]

NYT: "We don't want to normalize Nazis"
NYT: Normalizes fucking Nazis
posted by Sphinx at 3:38 PM on November 26, 2017 [35 favorites]

Believing that "the federal government is too big, the news media is biased, and ... affirmative action programs for minorities are fundamentally unfair" leads as easily to Nazism as it does to mainstream Republicanism.

You don't say.
posted by Gelatin at 3:40 PM on November 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

I know it's [real] but I still can't believe he actually tweeted 'Russia, Russia, Russia'.

Full name: Donald Jan Trump
posted by perhapses at 4:00 PM on November 26, 2017 [28 favorites]

That’s another thing with the President that’s a special variety of irksome. He says the stupidest, bald faced lies that don’t hold up to a moment of consideration and he just keeps piling them up.

He doesn't tell them because he expects them to be believed. He tells them to show that (a) he can (b) you can't stop him. (previously)
posted by flabdablet at 4:05 PM on November 26, 2017 [22 favorites]

Steele Dossier Claims Updated

In February, I published a breakdown of the claims in the Steele dossier in table form, so that they might be more amenable to analysis.

I have now updated that breakdown with material relevant to the claims. My objective is not to prove or disprove the material in the Steele dossier, but rather to provide evidence that has surfaced. What I have collected is not exhaustive, and it is more detailed for some claims than for others. I have used primarily major news sources.

posted by kirkaracha at 4:14 PM on November 26, 2017 [21 favorites]

I think the point Charlie Warzel is making really boils down to the same thing Will Sommer was saying yesterday: domestic extremists need to be covered by dedicated reporters who immerse themselves in that beat. Nazis aren't random curiosities who can be profiled by a general assignment reporter the same way one might write about a member of a local Buy Nothing group or someone who spends his free time picking up litter. They marched on Charlottesville and killed Heather Heyer in the street; they ought to be covered like the organized groups they are, not treated as anthropological curiosities in individual profiles.

There are journalists out there doing the exhausting work of pouring through forum postings, lurking in discord chats, getting the Breitbart email leaks, etc... Really covering extremism means understanding how these people communicate and what they say to each other. It means covering and knowing their victims. And it means having the knowledge of the topic to come into an interview like this one knowing what these people read and how they think, so that the reporter isn't getting Nazi 101 for the first time when he or she meets a Nazi.

All that said, I'm not sure that "normalization" or "humanizing" Nazis is the right framework to talk about the problem. White supremacy is entirely too normal in this country; exoticizing it, by giving the impression that you only benefit from white supremacy if you're wearing a white polo and carrying a tiki torch, is also dangerous. White supremacists aren't normalized when we learn they eat at Applebee's; they're normalized when we don't talk about the role everyday white supremacy plays in our government and society.

Shane Bauer had an interesting Twitter discussion on this. As Ana Marie Cox put it: "More profiles of white people who don’t realize they benefit from/place a part in white supremacy, not white supremacists who other white people don’t realize are white supremacists." I'd rather see a fraction of the effort that goes into warm profiles of Nazis actually spent covering systemic racism in this country, and actually call it that, no hiding behind dog-whistles.
posted by zachlipton at 4:50 PM on November 26, 2017 [60 favorites]

" As Ana Marie Cox put it: "More profiles of white people who don’t realize they benefit from/place a part in white supremacy..."

For all the folks, like the neo-Nazi in the NYT, who think that affirmative action isn't quite exactly mathematically fair -- what kind of system do they imagine we had before affirmative action? A fair one? Really? (Jeez many of these young blokes are ignorant, willfully ignorant or worse.)
posted by puddledork at 5:27 PM on November 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Yes, they think what existed prior to affirmative action was fairer. This is what makes them supremacists. Their sense of fairness is not like ours. That gap cannot be bridged.
posted by um at 5:39 PM on November 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

The lede kind of buried one of the biggest problems is that even if the number of nazis and white supremacists are minimal in society in general they’re well above the society average in places where it’s convenient to be an authoritarian fuck. We can outvote them but they control what passes for law and order in the mind of the white electorate and through their actions can turn public opinion against liberal elements even if the actions of that law and order are racist and/or blatantly illegal and/or unconstitutional.

I’d say that police in America need to do some soul searching but it seems like they already have and they’ve come to the conclusion that the police will have no soul.
posted by Talez at 6:19 PM on November 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

Yes, they think what existed prior to affirmative action was fairer. This is what makes them supremacists.

I get the impression that lots of them use religion to justify these positions and ward off any guilt or cognitive dissonance. Like it was fate, or Gods will, that those people were born into slavery, or descended from it. Then somehow it's not fate but their own free will and hard work when they get accepted into a university.

They love to have it both ways so they can lazily write off all the social injustice while also taking credit for their own place in society.
posted by p3t3 at 6:28 PM on November 26, 2017 [8 favorites]

> I’d say that police in America need to do some soul searching

Soulless or not, I'd say that the police need to be held accountable. Everywhere.
posted by runcifex at 6:41 PM on November 26, 2017 [9 favorites]

Well I have NO idea what to make of this:

A #TrumpRussia Confession in Plain Sight
by Martin Longman
Washington Monthly, November 24, 2017

Rykov explained how things went from there:

What was our idea with Donald Trump?

For four years and two days .. it was necessary to get to everyone in the brain and grab all possible means of mass perception of reality. Ensure the victory of Donald in the election of the US President. Then create a political alliance between the United States, France, Russia (and a number of other states) and establish a new world order.

Our idea was insane, but realizable.

It seems like a narrative someone is trying to sell. But it fits the narrative already I believed based on a ton of less... dramatic evidence.

What even is this? Anyone got any comments on the reliability of the sources here? If this is real, why would this guy post this? What's the angle? (Putin wants us to admire his cleverness and see him as powerful? Wants to cause chaos in our political system?)

(I felt this same way right after the election... When this quote came out... Why?)
posted by OnceUponATime at 6:44 PM on November 26, 2017 [1 favorite]

I'd say that the police need to be held accountable. Everywhere.

Narrator: [soft sobbing]
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:45 PM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

Time Inc. Sells Itself to Meredith Corp., Backed by Koch Brothers

"Some Koch allies have suggested that the brothers would view their investment purely as a moneymaking opportunity. But others familiar with the Kochs’ thinking speculated that they intend to use the media properties — which reach millions of online and print readers — to promote their brand of conservatism. The investment would also give the Kochs a way to combine the arsenal of voter information held by a data analytics company controlled by their network, i360, with the publishers’ consumer data."

Meredith Corp is as much a data company as a publisher. They have demographic information on literally hundreds-of-millions of Americans, culled from their many online properties. I'm less worried about Koch influence on Meredith's magazines and 15 TV stations than what they are planning to do with that data.
posted by scottatdrake at 6:54 PM on November 26, 2017 [20 favorites]

Calling back to the Conyers thing, I had a rare moment of agreement with Josh Barro on this. Resignation is a very big step, and calls for such really need to be done with proper respect to due process - the person was, after all, duly elected by the voters.

Stripping someone of leadership, on the other hand, is a smaller thing - they were put in leadership by the caucus, not the people - and it seems reasonable to do so when there is substantial reason to believe something untoward happened. It can always be restored.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:58 PM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

American Banker, CFPB's English expected to sue Trump administration to block Mulvaney appointment

Leandra English, the deputy director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, is expected to sue the Trump administration as early as Sunday evening to block the appointment of Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney as interim director of the consumer agency, according to sources close to the situation.

The lawsuit is expected to be filed by English herself, not the CFPB, the sources said, leaving it unclear if it represents the official position of the agency.

The lawsuit , English v. Trump, would be filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia either late Sunday or Monday morning, and would seek an injunction ordering President Trump to halt the Mulvaney appointment.

Here's the complaint. So that's the now deputy director of the CFPB, who has a claim to the position of acting director, suing the government in her personal capacity to prevent Trump from making Mulvaney acting director, on the basis that she already holds the position. I've read entirely too many twitter threads from lawyers trying to parse through the applicability of the Federal Vacancies Reform Act to the CFPB; suffice it to say that it's complicated. Normally, Trump can appoint someone to fill vacancies, but the CFPB statue says that the deputy director "shall" serve as the acting director (not "may"), which, depending how you squint at it, means you can argue the Vacancies Reform Act doesn't apply

Meanwhile the Office of Legal Counsel put out its opinion arguing Trump can appoint Mulvaney. Notably, that opinion is dated after Mulvaney was already appointed, making this an after-the-fact justification.

In short, there's now a fight for who controls a federal agency (at least until there's a Senate confirmed appointment anyway, which would avoid this whole problem), and it's extremely ugly.
posted by zachlipton at 7:02 PM on November 26, 2017 [47 favorites]

By the way, if you look at the complaint, you'll see that she's suing Trump and "John Michael Mulvaney, in his capacity as the person claiming to be acting director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau."

This would all be incredibly hilarious but for the whole erosion of norms and breakdown of the functioning of our government bit.
posted by zachlipton at 7:04 PM on November 26, 2017 [16 favorites]

Didn't SCOTUS rule that when "shall" appears in federal statute that it means "may", not "must"?
posted by elsietheeel at 7:16 PM on November 26, 2017

Hilarity can peacefully coexist with outrage.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:17 PM on November 26, 2017 [6 favorites]

I've little doubt that the administration will eventually prevail and get its way with gutting CFPB but I'm all for every little pile of shit we can throw at Trump, so yeah sue his ass and make him win this in court.
posted by Justinian at 7:23 PM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

Congress will return from its weeklong Thanksgiving break facing a rapidly-shrinking timeline to reform and renew an authority the intelligence community says is critical to identifying and disrupting terrorist plots.

The key piece of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, known as Section 702 and passed in 2008, is set to expire at the end of the year. It allows the National Security Agency (NSA) to collect the texts and emails of foreigners abroad without an individualized warrant — even when the subjects communicate with Americans in the U.S. [The Hill]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:31 PM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

Well, so much for Time.

It never was the amazing journalistic centerpiece it wanted to pretend it was, but it did try sometimes. Now? It's just another Koch propaganda mill.

I'm sure the change won't happen suddenly, these things take time and gradualism helps normalize the shift to 100% propaganda. But in a few years, a decade at most, Time will be nothing more than the print version of FOX.

So long Time magazine, it was a goodish run, but it's over. I'm sure Time will survive on nostalgia and old people who remember it as a good news source for a while, but eventually they'll die off and so will Time.
posted by sotonohito at 7:45 PM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

That'll be quite the Russian intelligence coup.
posted by Artw at 7:46 PM on November 26, 2017

Anthony Scaramucci is threatening to sue a student newspaper at Tufts University if it doesn't retract and apologize for a couple of op-ed pieces that called him "an unethical opportunist who exuded the highest degree of disreputability" and "a man who makes his Twitter accessible to friends interested in giving comfort to Holocaust deniers."

Why should he care what the Tufts Daily publishes? The columns were both calls on the university to rescind its appointment of him to the advisory board of its Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy.
posted by adamg at 7:48 PM on November 26, 2017 [28 favorites]

In scientific terms, a Scaramucci threat to sue is equal to a hummingbird's ability to lay bricks.
posted by perhapses at 7:52 PM on November 26, 2017 [11 favorites]

if it doesn't retract and apologize for a couple of op-ed pieces that called him "an unethical opportunist who exuded the highest degree of disreputability" and "a man who makes his Twitter accessible to friends interested in giving comfort to Holocaust deniers."

First one seems obviously opinion, and the second easily refuted with facts.
posted by rhizome at 7:53 PM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

So in the US our choices are the Kochs, the Mercers, and Murdochs (and whichever puppets they select as their agents).

But remember it's Soros that runs the world. /rightwing projection
posted by chris24 at 8:05 PM on November 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

Scaramucci was scheduled to speak at Tufts' Fletcher School on Monday, but the school postponed the talk after learning about his legal threat against the paper.
posted by adamg at 8:10 PM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

... Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy.

Anthony Scaramucci to teach what now?

Hahahahahahahahahaha!
posted by notyou at 8:12 PM on November 26, 2017 [10 favorites]

Senator Tom Cotton R-AR is a garbage person true believer
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:38 PM on November 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

Kyle Griffin
@kylegriffin1
Reminder: The Senate Judiciary Committee gave Jared Kushner a November 27 deadline to turn over the missing records—including the emails about WikiLeaks and a “backdoor overture” from Russia during the election. That’s tomorrow
posted by Room 641-A at 8:42 PM on November 26, 2017 [18 favorites]

The Senate Judiciary Committee isn't going to do jack shit if he doesn't comply. Prove me wrong, SJC.
posted by Justinian at 8:44 PM on November 26, 2017 [17 favorites]

Mod note: Susan Sarandon's aggravating opinions do not need extended discussion as she is not actually a person of influence in US politics.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 9:02 PM on November 26, 2017 [35 favorites]

In short, there's now a fight...and it's extremely ugly.

fucking good. any reason to leverage discovery.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:11 PM on November 26, 2017 [4 favorites]

In short, there's now a fight...and it's extremely ugly.

fucking good. any reason to leverage discovery.
posted by j_curiouser

Yeah, that's a good point. Strictly on the merits, and considered in any realistic political climate, English's complaint is unlikely to be more than a speed bump. She's not wrong, but I don't think she's right enough to prevail in front of any precedent-shy court.

However! The chance of Donny Stubbyfingers not sabotaging his own case via Twitterrhea approach zero between now and the first hearing.
posted by Anoplura at 9:27 PM on November 26, 2017 [7 favorites]

What even is this? Anyone got any comments on the reliability of the sources here? If this is real, why would this guy post this? What's the angle? (Putin wants us to admire his cleverness and see him as powerful? Wants to cause chaos in our political system?)

Discord, discord, discord. Confuse as many Americans as possible. Two opposing accounts of every story. Make it so we can't even agree on what is real and what isn't. Destroy our trust in the media, in the presidency, in our governing agencies, in each other, and in our perception of reality itself. In short, confuse us so badly and enrage us so thoroughly that we claw ourselves to pieces.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 9:28 PM on November 26, 2017 [20 favorites]

Senator Tom Cotton R-AR is a garbage person true believer

While the competition for Worst Garbage In Congress is intensely tight, my vote goes to Tom Cotton every time. He organized a letter to Iran to undermine the nuclear deal, he denied an ambassador appointment just to piss off Obama and explicitly said so (and the appointee died before the matter was resolved), and he says the problem with Gitmo is it isn't full enough. I always expect the worst from him. Every time.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:35 PM on November 26, 2017 [20 favorites]

Calling back to the Conyers thing, I had a rare moment of agreement with Josh Barro on this. Resignation is a very big step, and calls for such really need to be done with proper respect to due process

If he believed so much in due process, perhaps he shouldn't have started off with a secret settlement binding his accuser to silence...

Empirical question: Do we have any way to estimate how many secret settlements, of the Weinstein/O'Reilly/Conyers kind, there have been in the last couple decades? Is it prevalent enough that an anonymous survey of a thousand-person representative sample of women in the US might be able to measure it?

the person was, after all, duly elected by the voters.

Many people have been ejected from Congress and/or arrested even while maintaining the support of their district. The voters don't get the last word on this.

Empirical question: Has anyone seen a survey of Conyers's district on this? There was one on Franken, showing his approval fallen from 53% to 36%, with 33% saying he should resign vs 22% stay and 36% wait for the investigation. So I guess a slight plurality prefer the investigation run its course over immediate resignation, although I really wish they had a follow-up asking what people think the investigation is going to do and what they will decide if, as is likely, the investigation shows that yup, these accusations still stand.

I think that a lot of black voters would see a racial double standard if Conyers were publicly forced out and Franken weren't.

Notwithstanding the fact that Conyers's acts were probably worse, they do have a point -- which is another reason why Franken should hurry up and take one for the team, even if he doesn't believe it's the right thing to do. This emerging Democratic consensus that the best thing to do if a Democrat is caught doing something bad is go through an entire investigation process is a dangerous and rather novel precedent to set. From time immemorial, politicians have quit when caught, long before trial, in order to protect the rest of their party. In strong-party systems, they are forced out immediately to protect the party. In weaker systems like ours, the leadership does their best to nudge them out if it becomes clear they are hurting the party in order to save themselves. The idea that the Democratic party should absorb so much damage from Democrats and Democratic-voting Independents who hate watching the party rally around abusers is nuts. It may arguably be unfair on Franken (though I disagree), but the party is being done far more harm with him in than if he's replaced with another Democrat.
posted by chortly at 9:57 PM on November 26, 2017 [12 favorites]

Many people have been ejected from Congress and/or arrested even while maintaining the support of their district. The voters don't get the last word on this.

This is not accurate. 20 people have been expelled from Congress in the entire history of the United States, and 17 of those were for supporting the Confederacy (i.e., treason).
posted by Chrysostom at 10:13 PM on November 26, 2017 [5 favorites]

This is not accurate. 20 people have been expelled from Congress in the entire history of the United States, and 17 of those were for supporting the Confederacy (i.e., treason).

How many if you include those that "resign" under duress from their party or upon being indicted? I suppose I was speaking imprecisely, but the question on the table is not whether they will be formally expelled from Congress, but whether they should be strongly urged by the party, including whatever levers the leadership can employ, to resign. The fact that formal expulsions are so rare is in fact another argument against committing only to the formal investigation process, which is apparently either (a) ineffectual, or (b) generally forestalled by preemptive resignation.
posted by chortly at 10:37 PM on November 26, 2017 [3 favorites]

This emerging Democratic consensus that the best thing to do if a Democrat is caught doing something bad is go through an entire investigation process is a dangerous and rather novel precedent to set.... The idea that the Democratic party should absorb so much damage from Democrats and Democratic-voting Independents who hate watching the party rally around abusers is nuts.

I disagree with two premises underlying this statement:

1) that the investigation rule only applies to Democrats, and that
2) demanding a full investigation is the same as rallying around abusers.

Full investigation needs to be the rule for all congresspeople, regardless of party. Right now, the choice is entirely left to the accused, who tends to a) apologize and agree to an investigation (if a Democrat), or b) say "it never happened" and stonewall if a Republican (Trump, Clarence Thomas, Roy Moore, etc.).

We need a consistent rule for all accused. We need a full airing of allegations, and a chance for additional allegations to come forward in the knowledge that they will receive a bipartisan and fully publicized investigation. And we need to take the decision making away from the perpetrator, who right now has every incentive to stonewall and intimidate potential accusers.

The only way to get enough pressure on Republicans to agree to investigation of all charges is to have the same rule for Dems, and not allow them the easy way out by resigning and having the issue go away.
posted by msalt at 10:41 PM on November 26, 2017 [31 favorites]

One solution to preventing Republicans from weaponizing the presumption of belief for the accuser is to encourage a full investigation if the Democrat denies the claims, and to support (procedurally) that investigation even if we believe the accuser ourselves. If on the other hand the Democrat does not deny the accusations, I don't see what good an investigation serves if one believes the undenied accusations are in themselves sufficient to merit removal.

That is the procedural response. But there is also an argument for the greater interest of the party and of the left. Even a slight unfairness towards an individual politician -- urging him to resign even if an investigation has a slight chance of exonerating him -- can be justified in the greater interests of the party. When politicians say they are resigning for the good of the party even while denying the accusations, that can be quite reasonable (though it is rarely the truth of the matter). The party really is being hurt by Franken and Conyers, and while it's arguably in their own best interests to hang in there, I really don't see how it's in our collective best interests, unless we do feel that they are being unfairly railroaded. But the odd combination of believing the accusations, and (for many of us) believing that the accusations merit removal, while also calling for a full formal investigation prior to resignation (since, as Chrysostom points out, formal expulsion will never happen) seems counterproductive. It's also the same argument Republicans are making for Moore: first let the voters decide, and then they can have a nice long formal investigation in the Senate which, if Moore chooses not to resign under pressure, will almost certainly not result in his expulsion.
posted by chortly at 10:59 PM on November 26, 2017

If he believed so much in due process, perhaps he shouldn't have started off with a secret settlement binding his accuser to silence...

If not already, should NDA's be seen as a sign of "Bad Faith"? Is concealing the truth in the interest of any Good Faith party? I think it's a disservice to the Public Interest. Every NDA provides "Safe Space" for sexual predators.
posted by mikelieman at 11:07 PM on November 26, 2017 [2 favorites]

If the underlying conduct is potentially criminal then an NDA may amount to a conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:35 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Full investigation needs to be the rule for all congresspeople, regardless of party. Right now, the choice is entirely left to the accused, who tends to a) apologize and agree to an investigation (if a Democrat), or b) say "it never happened" and stonewall if a Republican (Trump, Clarence Thomas, Roy Moore, etc.).

We need a consistent rule for all accused. We need a full airing of allegations, and a chance for additional allegations to come forward in the knowledge that they will receive a bipartisan and fully publicized investigation. And we need to take the decision making away from the perpetrator, who right now has every incentive to stonewall and intimidate potential accusers.

The only way to get enough pressure on Republicans to agree to investigation of all charges is to have the same rule for Dems, and not allow them the easy way out by resigning and having the issue go away.

I guess another way to put this is, what exactly should this rule be? We already know it can't be symmetrical between the two sides: Republicans will always deny, and it's neither morally nor politically sustainable for Democrats to return to a world where every accused Democrat is asked to deny every accusation as a matter of course. So this leaves Democrats in a world where people like Franken don't issue fiery Republican-style denunciations, and even admit that they possibly did it ("I don't remember it like she does"), but somehow call for exactly the same sort of investigation that the denying Republican gets. But what does that investigation look like? On the Republican side, the accused denies, the accusers present evidence, and the committee or full chamber decides (and of course almost never actually convicts). On the Democratic side, we have the accuser(s) present their case, and the Democrat then gets to say, over and over "well, I don't remember it that way, but please accept my apology." How is that going to work? How will that appear to women (and others) as anything more than a platform for rehabilitating the accused? Are we just going to have a Sessions-style parade of "I don't remembers" from Franken or other Democrats during these hearings? And if the accused is forgetful but cooperative, are these going to become psychoanalytic investigations into recovering those memories?

My point is, there's a reason why investigations are normally paired with denials, and why no one says "I plead guilty and demand my day in court." Either an investigation is Republican style, with a proper prosecution and defense, or it's some weird Democratic exercise in non-denial-and-apology which is unjust to the accusers, mainly serves to rehabilitate the accused, and fails to achieve parity with Republicans anyway since at the end of the day, any Democrat who admits it (or refuses to deny) should resign, while of course almost no Republicans will resign or ever be formally expelled from Congress. And all we've gotten for our investigative effort is disgust from every woman and man who has experienced these things and watched Democrats spend X weeks "investigating" someone who won't even properly deny the accusations and is given dozens of opportunities to apologize and demonstrate how nice a guy they are.
posted by chortly at 12:40 AM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Obama photographer Pete Souza once again proves that his Instagram shade game is the strongest with this gallery of Time magazine covers.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:49 AM on November 27, 2017 [27 favorites]

any Democrat who admits it (or refuses to deny) should resign, while of course almost no Republicans will resign or ever be formally expelled from Congress

Could that potential disparity be remedied by upping our standards?

If the standard for "Fit for public service" is agreed to be, "Without even the appearance of impropriety", we'll find people to elect who understand what the word "Consent" means.
posted by mikelieman at 1:09 AM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

I haven't watched Morning Joe in a while, so perhaps this isn't uncommon, but they're just openly, literally calling Trump a moron right now. Though with the fig leaf, I suppose, that they're assuming Trump is the sole anonymous source for a story claiming their Thanksgiving Day show was "fake" because it was pre-recorded.
posted by XMLicious at 3:09 AM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

It should be a grand jury, which would work fine if we adopt mikelieman's definition of "fit for public service", which I don't think is too much to ask of our elected officials. The things they are being accused of are actual crimes, for the most part, for Pete's sake.

So if/when accusations are made, whatever the impropriety, it is put before a grand jury who will examine the evidence and simply decide if there is enough to warrant a trial if charges were pressed or a suit was filed. If there is? See you later. Doesn't mean you're guilty, per se, that's what court is for...but there is enough doubt, and we're paying you as a representative to not put yourself into situations where there could possibly be doubt.

(Also amend the rules that is the government pays a settlement on account of your bad behavior, it's automatic expulsion from office. Again...the idea is if you're that kind of person, you're not fit to be a rep.)

This isn't a morality thing, in the sense that right-wingers typically think of it. We don't actually care what you do with other consenting adults as long as it's legal. But keep it consensual. (And this would be true of the financial bullshit which goes on, too. Does a grand jury think you're doing shady enough BS that it should have it's day in court? See ya.)
posted by maxwelton at 3:13 AM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

I haven't watched Morning Joe in a while, so perhaps this isn't uncommon, but they're just openly, literally calling Trump a moron right now.

They've had a running feud for a while now.
posted by PenDevil at 3:20 AM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Time Inc. Sells Itself to Meredith Corp., Backed by Koch Brothers

When it was run by Harry Luce, Time had a strong right-wing, pro-business, anti-labor slant so this is just full circle.
posted by octothorpe at 4:43 AM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

> "... enough to warrant a trial if charges were pressed or a suit was filed. If there is? See you later. Doesn't mean you're guilty, per se ..."

I am super uncomfortable with this idea. From both an ethical and practical standpoint.
posted by kyrademon at 5:37 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Meredith Corp

OK, until this I thought reports of a glitch in the matrices were a funny if dated joke, but WT actual F. I'm pretty sure the writers are just picking through election thread jokes at this point.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:01 AM on November 27, 2017 [49 favorites]

We need due process, and we need that process to be truly independent, and both transparent and accountable to the public. Clearly, we do not have that at this point.

In a just system, those in power must be subject to close scrutiny of their ethics and conduct. At no point should either they as individuals, or the organizations from which their power derives, have more influence over the who and how of that process than offering suggestions and contextualizing questionable acts. Consequences should not be theirs to determine.

How we get there from here is an extraordinarily tough question. Intentionally changing culture without producing unintended consequences that overshadow the purpose of the change itself is no easy feat, even when those who must participate in engineering the change have an inherent conflict of interest in doing so. But surely we should recognize and be concerned about parallels with our opponents whenever we feel the impulse toward "swift justice" or firstwemustburnitalldownism.

At the same time we must be willing to damage the systems we have, in order to force those with power to give some up in the name of bringing about a more just system.

There is no simple fix.
posted by perspicio at 6:13 AM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Nobody snagged this one yet? OK then...

> Metafilter: Hilarity can peacefully coexist with outrage.
posted by Rykey at 6:50 AM on November 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

Hilarity can

Oh god, we're rerunning the primaries again.
posted by Artw at 6:52 AM on November 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

Before you guys get real excited about expelling people from Congress for this, that, or the other, US law gives great deference to the will of the voters in electing someone in the first place, and is very suspicious of attempts to remove or disqualify a duly-elected representative. It takes a 2/3 vote of Congress to expel someone (and that truly would be asymmetrical warfare, if Democrats unanimously voted to expel everyone accused, while Republicans voted to expel Democrats but keep Republicans). And there would be nothing at all preventing the expelled member from running again and being seated again. Even a felony conviction, even imprisonment!, isn't an "automatic" expulsion. Even then the will of the voters is given deference and there must be a 2/3 vote to override. (And, yes, voters have returned, by huge margins, members under federal indictment and facing lengthy prison sentences, so it's obviously not automatically disqualifying to voters.)

It doesn't matter if the standard is "not fit to serve" or "preponderance" or "reasonable doubt" -- members of Congress leave Congress by being voted out or by resigning, and those are really the only mechanisms, since expulsion is rare and courts are very suspicious of it (we know from lower legislative bodies).

While it's not exactly ideal, pushing members to resign is just about the most leverage their colleagues have, and the only way to definitively get rid of a misbehaving member. In a realistic world, a full and public investigation is both the best protection for the wrongly accused and the most powerful stick for goading the guilty into resignation or tarnishing them into electoral loss that we're realistically going to get.

I am fully on board with the Democrats expanding their vetting of candidates before giving them money, requiring them to do sexual harassment trainings, having them sign a code of behavior, requiring them to cooperate with a party sexual harassment ombudswoman with broad investigative powers -- but once someone's been elected, there's not a heck of a lot to be done other than pushing them to resign or rendering them so publicly toxic in their home district (a tough feat) that they lose.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:59 AM on November 27, 2017 [36 favorites]

Trigger warning: unrefined Trump tweet.

@RealDonaldTrump: We should have a contest as to which of the Networks, plus CNN and not including Fox, is the most dishonest, corrupt and/or distorted in its political coverage of your favorite President (me). They are all bad. Winner to receive the FAKE NEWS TROPHY!

(emphasis mine)
He is such a small, insecure, whiny, petty person. I can't believe it. I literally can't believe it that the President of the motherf*cking United States has to whine about people not constantly saying nice things about him.

It's a constant stream of "Me, me, me! I'm the best, the brightest, the strongest, the sexiest, the most independent and I also need people to reassure me constantly and tell me that this is so!"
posted by PontifexPrimus at 7:25 AM on November 27, 2017 [61 favorites]

Which is another reason why it is so important to get Doug Jones elected.

Republicans may be voicing Serious Concerns about Roy Moore now, but once he gets in expect a lot of them to waffle about The Will of the People and Dangerous Precedents and Unproven Allegations and allow him to place a 4000-pound Ten Commandments monument in front of every podium.
posted by delfin at 7:26 AM on November 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

We should have a contest as to which of the Networks, plus CNN and not including Fox, is the most dishonest, corrupt and/or distorted in its political coverage of your favorite President (me)

We should have a contest where the winner of the popular vote is elected President.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:33 AM on November 27, 2017 [139 favorites]

@RealDonaldTrump: We should have a contest as to which of the Networks, plus CNN and not including Fox, is the most dishonest, corrupt and/or distorted in its political coverage of your favorite President (me). They are all bad. Winner to receive the FAKE NEWS TROPHY!

Trump simply cannot grasp the fact that executing the office of the presidency is not like hosting a reality TV show. At least this provides some hope that either reporting on a new scandal or further revelations on the current ones will be coming soon...

He is such a small, insecure, whiny, petty person. I can't believe it. I literally can't believe it that the President of the motherf*cking United States has to whine about people not constantly saying nice things about him.

Here's what Trump's authorized biographer, Tony Schwartz, wrote in a Washington Post article back in May, subtitled The President's Behavior, Explained:

The Trump I got to know had no deep ideological beliefs, nor any passionate feeling about anything but his immediate self-interest. He derives his sense of significance from conquests and accomplishments. [...] But the reassurance he got from even his biggest achievements was always ephemeral and unreliable — and that appears to include being elected president. Any addiction has a predictable pattern: The addict keeps chasing the high by upping the ante in an increasingly futile attempt to re-create the desired state. On the face of it, Trump has more opportunities now to feel significant and accomplished than almost any other human being on the planet. But that’s like saying a heroin addict has his problem licked once he has free and continuous access to the drug. Trump also now has a far bigger and more public stage on which to fail and to feel unworthy.

From the very first time I interviewed him in his office in Trump Tower in 1985, the image I had of Trump was that of a black hole. Whatever goes in quickly disappears without a trace. Nothing sustains. It’s forever uncertain when someone or something will throw Trump off his precarious perch — when his sense of equilibrium will be threatened and he’ll feel an overwhelming compulsion to restore it. [...]

What Trump craves most deeply is the adulation he has found so fleeting. [...] Trump’s need for unquestioning praise and flattery also helps to explain his hostility to democracy and to a free press — both of which thrive on open dissent.

Constant need for hyperbolic admiration is of course a red flag for narcissistic personality disorder, but that's the least of our problems when it comes to Trump's mental stability.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:36 AM on November 27, 2017 [46 favorites]

its political coverage of your favorite President

Lincoln?
posted by kirkaracha at 7:36 AM on November 27, 2017 [13 favorites]

But I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on the bit about the one true race cleansing the soil and commanding what is rightfully theirs

Maybe Lisa's right about America being the land of opportunity, and maybe Adil's got a point about the machinery of capitalism being oiled with the blood of the workers.
posted by kirkaracha at 7:39 AM on November 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

your favorite President (me)

He had to add the "(me)" because people trolled him mercilessly on Twitter last week after he called himself "your favorite President"
posted by zarq at 7:40 AM on November 27, 2017 [35 favorites]

We should have a contest as to which of the Networks, plus CNN and not including Fox, is the most dishonest, corrupt and/or distorted in its political coverage of your favorite President (me). They are all bad. Winner to receive the FAKE NEWS TROPHY!

It's deeply disheartening to realize that Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho would actually make a better president, in many ways, than this narcissist treasonous moron. Like, the Idiocracy writers imagined the stupidest possible future for America, and gave that future an appropriate President, and that character, dropped into this White House, would be better for America on multiple fronts.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 7:41 AM on November 27, 2017 [57 favorites]

It's the (me) that gets me. Without the (me) a forgiving and unaware reader could have seen "your favorite president" as a kind of joke, albeit an inappropriate and narcissistic one: the very charitable could even have read a self-effacing tone into it. But he's so insecure and so broken that he has to remind us that he means himself. Me, guys. I'm your favorite president.

Attachment disorders are a powerful thing, maybe the most powerful, and I think much of the damage was done while Donald was still in the crib. Parents: make eye contact with your babies and smile at them and stuff or they might destroy humanity. And don't have kids if you're already a clan of amoral rentier-class monsters.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:49 AM on November 27, 2017 [72 favorites]

Some links:

Mallory Shelbourne at The Hil -- "CBO: Senate tax bill would hurt poor"

The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that the proposed Senate tax legislation would hurt Americans in the lowest income brackets if passed, The Washington Post reported late Sunday.

The bill would negatively impact individuals who make less than $30,000 per year by 2019, the CBO said, while most of those making under $75,000 would be negatively affected by 2027.

The update from the non-partisan CBO comes as the Senate pushes its version of tax reform legislation, which reportedly could see a vote as early as Thursday.

Phil Galewitz of Kaiser Health news: "About A Third Of Americans Unaware Of Obamacare Open Enrollment"

Nearly a third of people overall — including a third of people without health insurance — said they had not heard anything about the sign-up period for individuals who buy health plans on their own, according to the survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF). (Kaiser Health News is an editorially independent program of the foundation.)

Open enrollment started Nov. 1 and runs through Dec. 15 in most states. Advocates fear enrollment will decline this year because President Donald Trump has been repeatedly saying the health law is “dead,” and his administration severely cut funding for publicity and in-person assistance.

Andrew Desiderio at the Daily Beast: "Congress Braces for Russia Sanctions Face-Off With White House as New Deadline Looms"

“I don’t accept the premise that the president can ignore Congress, and that we can’t enforce that,” Cardin said. “The president has a constitutional responsibility to carry out the laws that we pass. That’s a constitutional responsibility. And he’s violating the Constitution if he doesn’t carry it out.”

Cardin and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, have threatened procedural tactics including blocking Trump’s nominees to key foreign policy and national security positions. The reality, though, is that Congress is close to powerless in compelling the administration to act.

“While we may not be able to directly enforce it, I understand that we have limits as to how we can enforce. Congress doesn’t have a military that’s under our command,” Cardin added. “The president does. But we have purse strings that are under our command. And we could use that. We have a lot of power that we can exercise.”

Sonam Sheth at Business Insider: "Mueller is eyeing Flynn's involvement in a film his lobbying firm did not want anyone to know about"

Robert Mueller is looking into former national security adviser Michael Flynn's involvement in the production of a film about an exiled Turkish cleric.

Flynn's consulting firm was tasked with producing the film last year and reportedly did not want anyone to know of its involvement in the project.

Mark Townsend at The Guardian: "Anti-Muslim online surges driven by fake accounts"

A global network of anti-Muslim activists is using Twitter bots, fake news and the manipulation of images to influence political discourse, new analysis reveals.

Many have recorded significant growth in their social media followings over the past year, co-ordinating to push the message that Islam is an “imminent threat” to western society.

posted by OnceUponATime at 7:51 AM on November 27, 2017 [21 favorites]

Congress is also owned by the Russians so I doubt they are bracing very hard. Probably too busy grinning at getting to dismantle FISA.
posted by Artw at 7:58 AM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Activity alert: The following petition is addressed to the White House and voices opposition to the House of Representative’s tax proposal, specifically taxation of graduate student stipends. 100,000 signatures will ensure a response from the President regarding his position on this issue.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/opposition-taxation-graduate-student-tuition-waivers-and-remissions
posted by Dashy at 8:07 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Congress is also owned by the Russians

→ Citizens United → Panama Papers → Magnitsky Act → Super PACs →

Checks out
posted by carsonb at 8:07 AM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's deeply disheartening to realize that Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho would actually make a better president, in many ways, than this narcissist treasonous moron.

President Camacho hired the smartest person he could find and followed his advice. Then, when he mistakenly tried to get the smart person executed, he recognized and admitted his error and then promoted him.

So, bring on Brawndo: the Thirst Mutilator and the Carl's Jr. EXTRA BIG-ASS FRIES, I guess is what I'm saying.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:09 AM on November 27, 2017 [36 favorites]

Can we just have President Terry Crews instead?
posted by elsietheeel at 8:11 AM on November 27, 2017 [22 favorites]

So, bring on Brawndo: the Thirst Mutilator and the Carl's Jr. EXTRA BIG-ASS FRIES, I guess is what I'm saying.

Idiocracy is so unrealistic. People don't look to smart people when they're dumb. Dunning–Kruger makes them think they're smart. Hell, look at how much people bitch about technocrats. They bitched about them over the Greek crisis, they constantly bitch about them when people rip into the EU, they even turn public against them here by calling them "faceless bureaucrats writing rules" like "don't dump cyanide into a stream" is a personal affront to the freedoms we have.
posted by Talez at 8:16 AM on November 27, 2017 [24 favorites]

Can we just have President Terry Crews instead?

Glad to see you guys catching up, I've been pushing for this for nearly a year now.
posted by contraption at 8:19 AM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Hell, I'm up for that even if he does nothing but reference his Old Spice ads.

DON'T VOTE FOR THAT VOTE BEARGLOOOOOOOOOOOVE
posted by delfin at 8:25 AM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Idiocracy has a lot more cultural significance to the right wing than to the left. Since its release it's been embraced by the Alt-Right (and previous amorphous incarnations) as a eugenics parable: start with the premise of unrestricted breeding by inferior peoples, end in a degenerate society with a black president, one that has to be saved by a white man from an earlier, unspoiled age.

I wonder if Mike Judge has ever addressed this. He's a pretty conservative libertarian-type but being anti-Trump means that he's been thrown out the Overton Window onto the pile of commies with the rest of us.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:33 AM on November 27, 2017 [31 favorites]

I wonder if Mulvaney would have pulled this move and Cotton made that statement if the acting CFPB director was not a woman.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:41 AM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Cardin and Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, have threatened procedural tactics including blocking Trump’s nominees to key foreign policy and national security positions. The reality, though, is that Congress is close to powerless in compelling the administration to act.

They could, you know, impeach...
posted by ocschwar at 8:45 AM on November 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

That ship is dry-docked.
posted by perspicio at 8:47 AM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Old school dry docks are gated by a floating submersible structure that is sometimes called a window.

I think this one is named after a fellow called Overton.
posted by ocschwar at 8:49 AM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Earlier this morning, Trump tweeted, "The Tax Cut Bill is coming along very well, great support. With just a few changes, some mathematical, the middle class and job producers can get even more in actual dollars and savings and the pass through provision becomes simpler and really works well!"

This actually shows some message coordination with Rand Paul's announcement today, in a Fox News op-ed: "I plan to vote for this bill as it stands right now. I urge my colleagues to do the same. I urge you, their constituents, to make sure they hear from you."

In that case, let's light up the Senate switchboard - 202-224-3121. That goes double for perennial fence-sitters Corker, Collins, Flake, McCain, and Murkowski, as well as Kansas's wavering Jerry Moran, who told constituents on Wednesday that he wanted to "get health care separated from taxes" before he'd support the tax bill and would "do everything [...] to make sure that [the tuition waivers taxation] provision is not in there".
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:10 AM on November 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

Instead of calling senators who don't represent you, you could use this Indivisible call tool to ask their constituents to call them.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:38 AM on November 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

"comma some mathematical comma" is just so true and also good way to live your life.
posted by Dumsnill at 9:43 AM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Called Portman this morning. He's not likely to waver. But I call and fax anyway. It's a good habit.

By the way, along with everything else, don't forget to demand action on CHIP.
posted by perspicio at 9:48 AM on November 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

Chris Riotta, Newsweek: Jared Kushner delays Senate deadline for documents in Russia investigation battle

Jared Kushner got a reprieve from the Senate Judiciary Committee on Monday and will not have to meet the November 27 deadline for handing over documents related to his Russia contacts during the 2016 presidential election, officials told Newsweek.

The committee tasked with investigating the Trump campaign’s possible collusion with Russia pulled back from the Monday deadline for Kushner after his team said it was working "in good faith to produce whatever else may be responsive and relevant" to the inquiry. A new deadline was not immediately set.

So the new deadline is...never. Kushner will never deliver the documents, and the Committee will never make him. The Senate investigation is a sick joke and the entire congressional GOP is either actively obstructing justice or guilty of it through gross negligence.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:00 AM on November 27, 2017 [69 favorites]

Instead of calling senators who don't represent you, you could use this Indivisible call tool to ask their constituents to call them.

Thanks for posting the Indivisible link. It's sad but true that senators rarely want to hear from Americans outside of their constituency. For those MeFites who do live in a state with a potentially persuadable senator, the grassroots The Sixty-Five has a selection of call-in scripts on many different issues, including the tax bill.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:06 AM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mulvaney Shows Up For Work At Consumer Watchdog Group, As Leadership Feud Deepens (NPR, November 27, 2017)

President Trump's pick to lead the consumer watchdog, Mick Mulvaney, arrived at the office early Monday morning with a bag of Dunkin' Donuts in hand. Mulvaney, the director of the Office of Management and Budget, is the acting director of the group until Trump can get a permanent leader through the Senate confirmation process — at least, according to the Trump administration.

But the former head of the CFPB, Richard Cordray, appointed Leandra English to lead the group in his wake. He named her as deputy director on Friday, his last day at the head of the group, hours before Trump named Mulvaney. English has since filed a complaint in U.S. district court in Washington, D.C., to block the Trump administration's rival appointment.

On Monday morning, English was communicating with CFPB staff through an all-staff email — a Thanksgiving message expressing gratitude and saying it was an "honor" to work with her colleagues. She signed the message, a copy of which was sent to NPR, as "Leandra English, Acting Director."

Mulvaney, meanwhile, sent a competing all-staff, advising staff to "please disregard" messages from English in her "presumed capacity as Acting Director." In that email, which was also acquired by NPR, Mulvaney celebrated his "very smooth transition" into the role of acting director — and invited staff to stop by for a doughnut.

The dispute has left CFPB staff "scratching their heads over who was in charge," as Reuters reports.
...
The complaint filed late Sunday by English states that "the president's purported or intended appointment of defendant Mulvaney as Acting Director of the CFPB is unlawful."

"The president may not, consistent with the statutory requirement of independence, install a still-serving White House staffer as the acting head of an independent agency," the suit reads.

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, or CFPB, has been a total disaster as run by the previous Administrations pick. Financial Institutions have been devastated and unable to properly serve the public. We will bring it back to life!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 25, 2017

Trump's Department of Justice, meanwhile, has advised the president that he does have the authority to install a new acting director. In a memo (PDF) dated Saturday, Assistant Attorney General Steven Engel wrote that while the president does not have the exclusive authority to appoint an acting director, such a move is an acceptable "alternative" to following the Dodd-Frank process. (As Politico and The Intercept have noted, Engel previously represented a payday lender that the CFPB was suing for deceptive and illegal lending practices. Court records show that Engel left that case earlier this month, stepping away as the lead defense attorney after his confirmation to the Department of Justice.)

Politico also reports that the CFPB's general counsel, Mary McLeod, has sided with the president. In a Nov. 25 memorandum obtained by Politico, McLeod writes: "As General Counsel for the Bureau, it is my legal opinion that the President possesses the authority to designate an Acting Director for the Bureau," adding, "I advise all Bureau personnel to act consistently with the understanding that Director Mulvaney is the Acting Director of the CFPB."

... And that's not it. Really, a good round-up of the clusterfuck at CFPB today.

My first question for Trump: is he talking about himself, what with appointing Engel, who quickly stepped down? With such turnover in his administration, he really should clarify which administration he's talking about, just like he clarifies which president he's referring to in his tweets.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:10 AM on November 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

For those of us with a GOP senator who is unlikely to budge on the tax bill (I'm looking at you, Toomey), I think it is still a good idea to call and register our opinions.

1. Congresspeople talk amongst themselves. They hear when massive amounts of calls are received in offices across the country. It adds to a sense of panic/urgency that causes them to rush and make mistakes. It increases fractures within the party.

2. Democrats hear about the calls too. I believe they have helped to keep possibly wavering senators in line. It encourages senators to speak out. (Casey was never outspoken before this year. Now he's out there all the time.)

3. The press hears about the call volume. They report on it which helps get the word out about how terrible this bill is. This in turn causes the GOP to try to rush even more, causing more sloppiness and infighting.

4. It takes up staffer time and they have less time available to do terrible things.

So please don't throw your hands in the air if you have a terrible congressperson. Take a few minutes and call.
posted by mcduff at 10:14 AM on November 27, 2017 [23 favorites]

> So the new deadline is...never. Kushner will never deliver the documents, and the Committee will never make him. The Senate investigation is a sick joke and the entire congressional GOP is either actively obstructing justice or guilty of it through gross negligence.

Makes sense. Kush is too busy solving the Israel/Palestine conflict, handling the opioid crisis, and building a cold fusion reactor in his basement. It'd be a travesty if he had to set those things aside to have to come up with a dozen different ways of saying "I don't recall", which is particularly hard work when your staff is making so much noise shredding documents.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:17 AM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Talking Points Memo: As Vote Nears, GOP Senator Warns Tax Bill Ignores ‘Debt And Deficit Issues’

Lankford (R-OK), a member of the key Senate Finance Committee that hashes out tax policy, said Republicans need to learn from what happened over the past few years in Kansas, where deep tax cuts sent the state into a fiscal crisis, forcing cuts to public school funding, roads, retiree pensions, and state universities.

Ha ha, what Republicans learned from that experience is that tax cuts make their rich buddies happy and kick poor people in the teeth, which is what they call a win-win. All they need is to suppress the vote during their re-election campaigns.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:21 AM on November 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

What Trump craves most deeply is the adulation he has found so fleeting. [...] Trump’s need for unquestioning praise and flattery also helps to explain his hostility to democracy and to a free press — both of which thrive on open dissent.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: Trump is a Hutt.

He's personally repulsive, he eats grotesque food, he takes pleasure in the slaughter of animals and people [1], he surrounds himself with attractive humanoid women who either are forced to tolerate his sexual assault or who are paid to do so, he runs a criminal empire, and he demands a steady stream of transparently false praise.

The only real difference between Donald and Jabba is that Jabba was semi-competent and mentally fit while Donald is senile and wasn't all that bright even when he had all his marbles.

But seriously, there's a fictional species that perfectly captures the essence of Trump. In any situation ask yourself: what would a typical Hutt from Star Wars do? And the answer is: exacly what Trump did.

[1] See his smirking son Uday (or is it Qusay?) holding up a severed elephant's tail.
posted by sotonohito at 10:22 AM on November 27, 2017 [34 favorites]

The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, or CFPB, has been a total disaster as run by the previous Administrations pick. Financial Institutions have been devastated and unable to properly serve the public. We will bring it back to life!

Truth bomb for ya here, but the "previous Administrations pick" [sic] was the first and only Director so far. Curious what sort of Marty McFly shenanigans it'll take to bring the CFPB "back" to anything.

Alternatively, that's the point, and 45 would prefer a nonexistent CFPB ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 10:23 AM on November 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

The only real difference between Donald and Jabba is that Jabba was semi-competent and mentally fit while Donald is senile and wasn't all that bright even when he had all his marbles.

More differences: Jabba had good taste in live music and didn't just play "You Can't Always Get What You Want" over and over again. Jabba was capable of enjoying life and laughed convincingly. Jabba paid off and used his sail barge and didn't have to sell it to a Saudi prince after 2 years.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:28 AM on November 27, 2017 [40 favorites]

The only real difference between Donald and Jabba is that Jabba was semi-competent and mentally fit while Donald is senile and wasn't all that bright even when he had all his marbles.

Jabba wasn't afraid of his sail barge weighing anchor
posted by thelonius at 10:28 AM on November 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

Jabba was a more tasteful decorator
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 10:29 AM on November 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

He also had a much better haircut.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:30 AM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Make Tatooine Great Again
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:31 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Jabba didn't cheat at golf.
posted by Lyme Drop at 10:32 AM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Jabba didn't seem racist and never called for the execution of 5 innocent black kids.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:32 AM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

He liked his women to be smart.
posted by Melismata at 10:32 AM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jabba employed a highly diverse staff
posted by theodolite at 10:32 AM on November 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

come to think of it mike pence looks a lot like bib fortuna
posted by entropicamericana at 10:32 AM on November 27, 2017 [36 favorites]

Lankford (R-OK), a member of the key Senate Finance Committee that hashes out tax policy, said Republicans need to learn from what happened over the past few years in Kansas, where deep tax cuts sent the state into a fiscal crisis, forcing cuts to public school funding, roads, retiree pensions, and state universities.


This is literally what they want, though. Cut taxes, plunge the state into a crisis that forces the elimination of social services, shrinking the state. Rinse, wash, repeat, drown gov't in a bathtub, replace public services with privately owned utilities and privately funded security/fire services, rule over the peasants like some feudal lord with an iPhone.
posted by dis_integration at 10:33 AM on November 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

> This is literally what they want, though.

Like I said, win-win. But they're not supposed to say it out loud.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:34 AM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Okay, Trump is unworthy to be a Hutt; maybe we can cross over to that OTHER sci-fi franchise and declare him a Ferengi. He makes a fine Grand Nagus.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:38 AM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Mod note: Y'all, Which Sci-Fi Villain Is Trump would make a great blog entry or a sidebar in a less busy thread, but is the kind of thing that eats up a lot of space in these threads and makes 'em get huger faster.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:40 AM on November 27, 2017 [39 favorites]

2. Democrats hear about the calls too. I believe they have helped to keep possibly wavering senators in line. It encourages senators to speak out. (Casey was never outspoken before this year. Now he's out there all the time.)

This is why I still e-mail or fax my senators when I'm already confident that they support the same position that I do. I know my senators are going to vote against the tax bill but I think it helps lend support for how loudly they're against it.

I imagine myself as a senator. I'm pretty far to the left of the average Minnesotan and my public positions on issues would likely be a little more conservative than my own personal positions.

So maybe when it's time to talk about the GOP tax bill I feel like I have to be firmly against it but not out there railing against it and decrying it for the insulting pile of garbage it really is.

Then my phone lines start lighting up with angry constituents yelling at me about terrible the bill is. "AWESOME!" I would think to myself, "My constituents are just as fired up about this as I am!"

Fast forward to a clip of me on the news that night on the senate floor calling the GOP morons and cowards and generally yelling at them in righteous, glorious anger. It's what I've wanted to do all along but I didn't because I didn't think it's what my constituents wanted. But if they start making calls, the leash comes off.
posted by VTX at 10:43 AM on November 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

Damn, I had an Outside Context Problem I wanted to post, but OK cortex.
posted by Dumsnill at 10:44 AM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

He makes a fine Grand Nagus.

Yeah, but I like the Grand Nagus. And I like Jabba the Hutt. And I like the Joker and all of the other greedy and chaotic characters Trump has been compared to, and you know why? They're all fictional. We like to see the villains do their thing because it's all fiction and we can escape into those worlds for a while and watch the heroes step up and save the day. Out here, in reality, there's no Batman or Luke Skywalker or I suppose Quark's brother Rom to save the day while we watch from the sidelines. It's up to us. Be the Batman you want to see in the world. Call and fax your senators and representatives.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:46 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

ABC, Michael Flynn's lawyer meets with members of special counsel's team, raising specter of plea deal

The lawyer for President Donald Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn met Monday morning with members of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team, the latest indication that both sides are discussing a possible plea deal, ABC News has learned.

President Trump’s legal team confirmed late last week that Flynn’s attorney Robert Kelner alerted them that he could no longer engage in privileged discussions about defense strategy in the case, a sign Flynn is preparing to negotiate with prosecutors over a deal that could include Flynn’s testimony against the President or senior White House officials.

In case you're wondering what has Trump so angry this morning, this might be a clue.
posted by zachlipton at 10:47 AM on November 27, 2017 [50 favorites]

Don't lawyers of opposing sides sometimes meet because that's how lawyering works?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:48 AM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm turning 50 soon and its been messing with my head in ways that I didn't expect. I was whining about that to my wife last night and she said "Jeez Joey, its like turning 50 is your own personal Trump."

So, anyhow, I'll be using that sentence construction for something that causes outrage and horror now (e.g. "That explosion while they were landing was the Hindenburg's Trump," etc).

In case you're wondering what has Trump so angry this morning, this might be a clue.

I always sort of assume anger is his default setting.

Edit: Spelling and historical accuracy vis a vis the Hindenburg
posted by Joey Michaels at 10:50 AM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

A friendly reminder that there is an active MetaTalk discussion about thread-cluttering comment riffs.
posted by zarq at 10:53 AM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

No, getting his way and having everyone fawning over him is his default setting; when someone (or an entire news medium) doesn't, he goes into angry mode.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:54 AM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

WaPo, Damian Paletta, Trump could personally benefit from last-minute change to Senate tax bill, in which Trump is in personal contact with lawmakers about changes that would benefit pass-through entities, that is to say, would benefit himself.

Bloomberg, White House Weighs Personal Mobile Phone Ban for Staff:

The White House may ban its employees from using personal mobile phones while at work, raising concerns among staff including that they’ll be cut off from family and friends, according to five administration officials.

President Donald Trump has repeatedly complained about press leaks since taking office, but one official said the potential change isn’t connected to concerns about unauthorized disclosures to news organizations.

People might be spying on the US Government? Why I never.
posted by zachlipton at 11:03 AM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Do they know that leaks happened before there were cell phones? Most of the leaks we see are "White House sources say," which only requires that someone a. witness something (or claim to) and b. tell a member of the press about it.
posted by emjaybee at 11:06 AM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Democrats hear about the calls too. I believe they have helped to keep possibly wavering senators in line. It encourages senators to speak out. (Casey was never outspoken before this year. Now he's out there all the time.)

There's a certain satisfaction to cc'ing Casey on yet another irate fax to Toomey.

It helps of course that Casey is up for re-election next year, as are Florida's Bill Nelson, Indiana's Joe Donnelly, Missouri's Claire McCaskill, Montana's Jon Tester, North Dakota's Heidi Heitkamp, Ohio's Sherrod Brown, Virginia's Tim Kaine, West Virginia's Joe Manchin, and Wisconsin's Tammy Baldwin. With all these seats up for grabs in the senate in the midterms, the Dems need to hear from their constituents about what truly matters to them.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:08 AM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Faxed NC's senators. ResistBot is apparently down again due to heavy use.
posted by yoga at 11:13 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Nazis: They’re just like us!

Why should the New York Times have all the fun?

I spoke to the man who starts fires. He thinks everything ought to be on fire. He wants the whole world to burn. (I live in a fireproof house.) He wore a nice tie. He had a tattoo of a smiley face. He loves pop culture. As we spoke, he lit everyone around us on fire. He did not light me on fire, because I was interviewing him. (I could not believe this.) He was neat and polite. (He said that everything should be on fire.) I had no further questions for him.

Maybe, I thought, I have the wrong house. I went next door. There lived a Nazi.

The Nazi I met in Ohio was exactly as dapper and winsome as a young man shot by the police would not appear to be in an article of this kind. He was so normal I could not believe my eyes. It goes against everything I have ever seen in movies about Nazis, where the entrance of such a person is always accompanied by a disapproving oboe.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 11:18 AM on November 27, 2017 [74 favorites]

Metafilter: where the entrance of such a person is always accompanied by a disapproving oboe.
posted by Melismata at 11:19 AM on November 27, 2017 [37 favorites]

President Donald Trump has repeatedly complained about press leaks since taking office, but one official said the potential change isn’t connected to concerns about unauthorized disclosures to news organizations.

That's a great idea! As we learned last week, the chucklefuck in charge is totally willing to open any random link someone tweets at him, as long as they make sure to say what a great job he's doing first. Taking away his phone would be the greatest step we could collectively make toward securing the IT boundaries of the White House.

The White House may ban its employees from using personal mobile phones while at work, raising concerns among staff including that they’ll be cut off from family and friends, according to five administration officials.

Oh. Staffer phones. Yeah, sure, go for it--I bet taking away all your support staff's primary vector of communication with loved ones will have zero snapback effects, and will definitely not end up with them just meeting the NBC correspondents right at the rear entrance to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue at the end of their shifts to tell them everything out of spite.
posted by Mayor West at 11:22 AM on November 27, 2017 [21 favorites]

your support staff's primary vector of communication with loved ones

.. are lizard people even capable of love?
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 11:33 AM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I presume the "No Staffer Phones" edict is because they just this minute realized that "wearing a wire" no longer means "duct tape a 1970s ribbon mic to your chest" and really means "Mueller gets a warrant and installs an app on your phone."
posted by Freon at 11:34 AM on November 27, 2017 [39 favorites]

Nazis: They’re just like us!
I feel oddly certain that if you go back into the New York Times archives, you'll find a profile of Donald J. Trump with pretty much the same spin: "He's just like normal people, only richer! (And you know you'd put your name on buildings if you could)"

them just meeting the NBC correspondents right at the rear entrance to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
...and a Trump toady would be specifically assigned to review the tapes from the security cameras at the rear entrance...
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:37 AM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Charlie Pierce: If Your Nazi Story Is Bad, Kill the Story
posted by zombieflanders at 11:42 AM on November 27, 2017 [36 favorites]

But if they start making calls, the leash comes off.

This has been in full effect with Bob Casey, delightfully.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:45 AM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

From @kaylatausche (CNBC Washington correspondent):

Excerpt from Mulvaney email to @CFPB staff, asking them to stand down on instructions from English: "I apologize for this being the very first thing you hear from me."

"Please disregard any instructions you receive from Ms. English in her presumed capacity as Acting Director"
"If you receive additional communications from her today in any form, related in any way to the function of her actual or presumed official duties (i.e. not personal), please inform the General Counsel."
"I apologize for this being the very first thing you hear from me. However, under the circumstances I suppose it is necessary.
"I look forward to working with all of you. If you're at 1700 G Street today, please stop by the 4th Floor to say hello and grab a donut."

Fine. Tuned. Machine.
posted by mhum at 11:48 AM on November 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

JKFSLJADHFSJKHLGFJHKFGJHKLDFJKLGJO

@jeffmason1: .@realDonaldTrump praises Navajo Code Talkers and says he won’t give a speech after compelling remarks by veteran; then he makes a quip about @SenWarren, saying there is a “Pocahontas” in the Senate.

The quote, at an event honoring Native veterans: "You were here long before any of us were here. Although we have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas."

He went on to say: "Not like you. You are special. You are special people"

As if that's not bad enough, he did all this in front of a portrait of Andrew Jackson.
posted by zachlipton at 11:49 AM on November 27, 2017 [101 favorites]

No, you idiot. *You* call her Pocahontas.
posted by Sphinx at 11:54 AM on November 27, 2017 [41 favorites]

I presume the "No Staffer Phones" edict is because they just this minute realized that "wearing a wire" no longer means "duct tape a 1970s ribbon mic to your chest" and really means "Mueller gets a warrant and installs an app on your phone."

So Papadapoulous was arrested late July, Trump left for Bedminster for a month in August. During that month, the Oval Office was redecorated...
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:54 AM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

I think we should be focused on the tax bill not Franken today, but this article just out in TPM illustrates my earlier point about the "full investigation" route for Franken: 'Franken Won’t Say If Groping Allegations Are Grounds For Resignation'. He gets bogged down in very basic questions, can't say what grounds for resignation might be, and can't even specify what exactly he's apologizing for. Dozens of members of Congress have resigned even with the support of their districts, so that's a perfectly ethical route for politicians to take and for the party to push for. So the main question is whether we want to push to resign, or push for weeks of hearings where once-beloved Democrats immolate themselves in a series of non-answers and dodges as in the TPM article above.

A few more tidbits for the article: 'Asked whether he plans to release the findings of the Senate Ethics Committee probe into the allegations against him, Franken said he “will be open to that.”' -- i.e., he and the Senate are leaving the door open to keeping the probe and its findings hidden. And: 'Franken told Minnesota TV station WCCO on Sunday that he “can’t say” whether he’s ever groped a woman in a “crowded, chaotic” situation. “I take thousands and thousands of pictures,” Franken said. “I can’t say that I haven’t done that. I am very sorry if these women experienced that.”' We really want weeks or months more of this?
posted by chortly at 11:55 AM on November 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

Here's video. This is so so so wrong.
posted by zachlipton at 11:55 AM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Tax bill whip watch:

Paul - Yes

Moran - TBD

Moran is apparently getting a lot of heat from constituents to oppose.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:55 AM on November 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

Go, Kansans.
posted by GrammarMoses at 11:59 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

what the actual fuck
posted by numaner at 11:59 AM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Moran is apparently getting a lot of heat from constituents to oppose.

Time and Sunlight are toxic to this thing.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:00 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

I don't think I can watch that video.
Did all the Native Americans get up and walk out? Please tell me they walked out.

Please tell me somebody's finally going to call him on his bullshit in person, in the moment he pulls it, on camera. Besides Hillary Clinton.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:01 PM on November 27, 2017 [22 favorites]

President Trump’s legal team confirmed late last week that Flynn’s attorney Robert Kelner alerted them that he could no longer engage in privileged discussions about defense strategy in the case, a sign Flynn is preparing to negotiate with prosecutors over a deal that could include Flynn’s testimony against the President or senior White House officials.

In case you're wondering what has Trump so angry this morning, this might be a clue.

I bet Trump gets so angry at the betrayal that he refuses to pardon him.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:02 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Charlie Warzel, Buzzfeed: The New York Times Can't Figure Out Where Nazis Come From In 2017. Pepe Has An Answer.

So now we've reached the point at which Buzzfeed (!), along with random people on Twitter, are successfully schooling the Paper of Record in Journalism 101. If anyone needs me, I'm going to be over there, inside a bottle of scotch.
posted by holborne at 12:03 PM on November 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

Moran is apparently getting a lot of heat from constituents to oppose.
Go, Kansans.
what the actual fuck

@LOLGOP
The cosmic justice of Kansas face-planting into @GroverNorquist's wettest dream costing the GOP these tax cuts for the rich would make the Pope believe in karma.
posted by chris24 at 12:07 PM on November 27, 2017 [38 favorites]

Flynn is also tied into some shady Mideast nuclear power project.

It's really staggering how much dirty stuff Flynn got into in such a short period of time.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:09 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yes, it's open season for "Time Person of the Year" photoshops, and MAD Magazine (which has been getting more adept at political satire lately) has one.
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:09 PM on November 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

MAD Magazine (which has been getting more adept at political satire lately)

Trying to compete (again) with Cracked?
posted by Melismata at 12:11 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Sen Daines says he's NO on tax bill as currently written.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:11 PM on November 27, 2017 [22 favorites]

Don't lawyers of opposing sides sometimes meet because that's how lawyering works?

I would be astounded if Flynn's deal was being conducted in any way that would mean ABC could find out about it. Now, making it look like Flynn was cutting a deal is another matter entirely. What's he gonna say? "No Donnie I'm not cuting a deal to roll over on you and yours, scouts honour".
posted by fullerine at 12:12 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Daines? That's unexpected.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 12:13 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

don't worry , some mathematics will fix it
posted by Dumsnill at 12:14 PM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Sen Daines says he's NO on tax bill as currently written.

Wow, they can't lock down Montana?
posted by chris24 at 12:14 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

jesus fuck that pocahontas crack is like the opposite of reading the room.

during the campaign you would see some reporting on howl, if trump wasn't a traditionally great orator, he at least had the power to connect with his audience on some visceral level.

and that's bullshit. he's an empty bag devoid of the merest scrap of empathy, and if his schtick worked during the campaign it was because he was an ASSHOLE speaking ASSHOLE to a handpicked audience of ASSHOLES, full stop.
posted by murphy slaw at 12:16 PM on November 27, 2017 [84 favorites]

The State of Colorado, Families to Begin Receiving Letters on Future of CHP+ "Kids and pregnant women could lose coverage at the end of January"

In which the state sends out letters to the families of 75,000 kids informing them that their health insurance will end January 31 if Congress doesn't act, probably the first state to send such notices.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on November 27, 2017 [29 favorites]

In a realistic world, a full and public investigation is both the best protection for the wrongly accused and the most powerful stick for goading the guilty into resignation or tarnishing them into electoral loss that we're realistically going to get. making sure sexual predators never have to face real consequences for their actions.

FTFY.

Seriously, there is absolutely no way you can get me to believe that rounds of hearings aren't actually a method to delay responding to sexual harassment/assault accusations, obfuscate the charges, and put the accusers under a hostile microscope. All to get a result of "not enough evidence". We've seen with the Cosby and Allen trials what happens when things are left to the system.

Asking for hearings is basically another way of saying "My colleagues will get me off."
posted by happyroach at 12:23 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Daines? That's unexpected.

Daines was one of the first elected republicans to publicly unendorse Moore. He's a piece of shit but I suspect that he knows the way the wind is blowing outside the base.

On Trump's Navajo comments: among his manifold racisms something about his treatment of Native Americans is particularly repulsive. He's not angry at them, like with African Americans, or afraid of them like with Mexicans. He knows how accepted anti-NA racism is in this country and that hardly anybody cares about the caricatures and stereotypes. It's pure sadism, dominance, and contempt; and he revels in it.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:25 PM on November 27, 2017 [41 favorites]

It's pure sadism, dominance, and contempt; and he revels in it.

there's also got to be some envy that they somehow manage to run casinos at a profit
posted by murphy slaw at 12:28 PM on November 27, 2017 [79 favorites]

White House Christmas decorations or set picture from True Detective season 3?
posted by PenDevil at 12:30 PM on November 27, 2017 [32 favorites]

It's pure sadism, dominance, and contempt; and he revels in it.

It really tracks with Jeet Heer's latest column Donald Trump, America’s Racial Sheriff where Trump has anointed himself as the guy who gets to decide which minorities are worthy are which are not. The article focuses on the separation between "uppity" and "grateful" within the African American community, but the same analysis can be made for his interactions with Native Americans.
posted by peeedro at 12:33 PM on November 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

Christmas at Sleepy Hollow.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:36 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Christmas in the upside down.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:37 PM on November 27, 2017 [27 favorites]

there's also got to be some envy that they somehow manage to run casinos at a profit

IIIIIIIIIIIICE BURN
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:39 PM on November 27, 2017 [29 favorites]

White House Christmas decorations or set picture from True Detective season 3?

Christmas at Sleepy Hollow.

Christmas in the upside down.

Can anyone confirm this is real? It's kinda dumb when we dig into something juicy and believable that quickly turns out be fake.
posted by paper chromatographologist at 12:39 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Can anyone confirm this is real? It's kinda dumb when we dig into something juicy and believable that quickly turns out be fake.

That's the verified Twitter account of Melania's Director of Communications.
posted by PenDevil at 12:41 PM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Can anyone confirm this is real?

The original tweet is from FLOTUS' director of communications.
posted by Sophie1 at 12:41 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

1. It's that fucking little snicker right at the end where he's so goddamn proud of himself for making fun of Elizabeth Warren by using an ethnic slur that's really the worst part, if you have to find a worst part.

2. Don't dis the Grand Nagus, who was smart enough to recognize that Ferengi profit-driven culture would ultimately doom them to irrelevance in a galaxy dominated by cooperation-driven cultures like the Federation, and began the important work of re-orienting Ferengi values to recognize the value of "profit" to encompass social justice and compassion along with profit, by comparing him to Trump. Trump would be a bottom-dweller Ferengi at best, because the Ferengi don't reward stupidity.
posted by mightygodking at 12:41 PM on November 27, 2017 [19 favorites]

(Not really important if it's real or not, right? Why would we need to comment on White House xmas decorations in this thread?)
posted by agregoli at 12:42 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

The quote, at an event honoring Native veterans.

What the everfucking fucking fuck? And Huckabee Sanders' conduct about it was, if possible, even worse. How DARE she?

I loathe these terrible people and wish them ill.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:44 PM on November 27, 2017 [30 favorites]

Can anyone confirm this is real?

You can see the same decorations about 44 second into the video on this @FLOTUS tweet. The theme this year seems to be "Make the White House White Again."
posted by peeedro at 12:44 PM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

About the Xmas decor: at least it isn't gold-plated.

So far.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:46 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

And Huckabee Sanders' conduct about it was, if possible, even worse.

I probably don't want to know, but what did she do?
posted by orrnyereg at 12:49 PM on November 27, 2017

I probably don't want to know, but what did she do?

"What's actually disgusting is Elizabeth Warren's behavior. I think that people understand that the real outrage should be directed at Warren." Et cetera forever.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:51 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Now, making it look like Flynn was cutting a deal is another matter entirely.

Classic Wire move. Trump would totally buy Flynn getting bought off by a trip to McDonald's.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:51 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Happy German Expressionist Christmas everyone!
posted by notyou at 12:53 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

I probably don't want to know, but what did she do?

She listed herself in the law directory as a minority because she didn't grow out of her "great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" phase.
posted by Talez at 12:53 PM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

White House Christmas decorations or set picture from True Detective season 3?

I'm going with homage to the death of Denethor, Steward of Gondor
posted by Existential Dread at 12:54 PM on November 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

> He derives his sense of significance from conquests and accomplishments. [...] But the reassurance he got from even his biggest achievements was always ephemeral and unreliable — and that appears to include being elected president.

Donald Trump is the Saint of Hungry Ghosts.
posted by homunculus at 12:54 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Why would we need to comment on White House xmas decorations in this thread?

(a) Because those are American tax dollars at work in making Xmas at the White House look like Tim Burton's long-awaited Beetlejuice sequel; and (b) the Trump campaign jumped on the culture-war bandwagon to restore traditional Christmas holidays in the face of coastal (secular) elitists. This taxpayer-supported combination of religious hypocrisy and poor taste hiding behind minimalism makes today's Top Ten Obnoxious Things the Trump Administration Has Done, if only just.

As for today's #1, the spokesman for alliance of Native American tribes says Trump's commentary "smacks of racism" and president should "stop using our historical people of significance as a racial slur against one of his opponents."

there's also got to be some envy that they somehow manage to run casinos at a profit

And then there was the time that Donald claimed “more Indian blood” than the Native Americans competing with his casinos.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:55 PM on November 27, 2017 [55 favorites]

Why would we need to comment on White House xmas decorations in this thread?

Because sometimes puerile mockery is the only thing that keeps me from screaming and clawing my eyes out? But you're right, more of a Venting MeTa thing.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:57 PM on November 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

Heard an NPR show (didn't catch which one and didn't recognize the host's voice) interviewing the makers of an HBO documentary on the meth crisis in a rural part of a southern US state. It details the decline of the local economy and the sinking of the populace into despair and drug use. Parallels with the current opioid crisis are made. The filmmakers, when asked about a solution, said jobs.

It's remarkable to me that this concern is cited as the source of Trump's support and that these poor rural folk have the sympathy of the party of the Southern Strategy, whose response to similar problems in "inner city" (*wink, wink*) areas was contempt for the population not lifting themselves up by their lazy bootstraps and demonization of "welfare queens." If one can find a more blatant illustration of the deeply seated racism of the modern GOP, I don't know what it might be.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:59 PM on November 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

Please tell me somebody's finally going to call him on his bullshit in person, in the moment he pulls it, on camera.

I have a fuzzy memory of a reporter, possibly Native, who said, "That's really offensive." when Trump was calling Liz Warren "Pocahontas" repeatedly during a press conference. He said something smarmy like, "You think so?" with a shit-eating expression on his face.
posted by xyzzy at 12:59 PM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

For me the Xmas decorations winner is this video showing just how much joy and wonder Melania has for ushering the magic of the season...
posted by Mchelly at 1:01 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have a fuzzy memory of a reporter, possibly Native, who said, "That's really offensive." when Trump was calling Liz Warren "Pocahontas" repeatedly during a press conference.

Yes, that happened
posted by zachlipton at 1:02 PM on November 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

Did all the Native Americans get up and walk out? Please tell me they walked out.

They have way too much to lose. Every little element of what we call Indian sovereignty could be endangered if they piss Trump off enough.
posted by ocschwar at 1:04 PM on November 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

History reminder: Elizabeth Warren should, by all rights, have headed the CFPB that she created. Her nomination was killed by GOP obstruction, lo those 3x10^7 Scaramuccis ago.
posted by Dashy at 1:04 PM on November 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

Since you can just show up at the CFPB and have the head spot while keeping your own job, why wouldn't Warren pull a Mulvaney tomorrow? (secretly hoping)
posted by fluttering hellfire at 1:06 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Her nomination was killed by GOP obstruction, lo those 3x10^7 Scaramuccis ago.

Yes. Which made her run for Congress, and win, so there's that.
posted by Melismata at 1:10 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

White House Christmas decorations or set picture from True Detective season 3?

This is just the part where the ghosts of Christmas show up
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 1:10 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Is it... is it possible ... someone at the White House placed the Navajo Code Talker ceremony in front of a portrait of Andrew Jackson on purpose? It wouldn't be Trump, it's too subtle. Stephen Miller is my guess.

I'm beginning to think this administration isn't very good.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:13 PM on November 27, 2017 [31 favorites]

Seriously, there is absolutely no way you can get me to believe that rounds of hearings aren't actually a method to delay responding to sexual harassment/assault accusations, obfuscate the charges, and put the accusers under a hostile microscope. All to get a result of "not enough evidence". We've seen with the Cosby and Allen trials what happens when things are left to the system

Yes, our system is biased toward letting perpetrators escape rather than toward easily finding the innocent guilty. I've always regarded that as a strength. I don't personally believe we should fine-tune our system to make it harder for the innocent to escape unwarranted punishment.

There are, of course, classes of people for whom the system is not biased in their favor, and certainly the poor, minorities, and non-wealthy, non-white women have felt this most acutely. The answer, I think, is not bypassing protections for the accused to summarily punish those accused of sexual assault and rape, but to fix the parts of the legal system that make it possible only for the wealthy and powerful to get good legal representation. This is the problem that needs to be fixed, rather than some shortcuts to punishing the accused in certain crimes. I also would like those victims who see their attackers fail to be held accountable by the criminal justice system turn around and sue for extravagant damages in civil court, where the standards for proof are much lower. And I would like to see the cases tried rather than settled for moderate to large sums with non-disclosure agreements. Perhaps setting up a fund to back such victims would encourage this and ultimately may be a more effective way of correcting the behavior of bad-intentioned men (and women, sometimes).
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:14 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

I loved Trump's little "But You know what... I like you." at the end of his little remarks after dropping the Pocahontas slur. It was the perfect level of hesitancy and insincerity that I expect from our very good not at at all a disaster of a racist puppet President.
posted by tittergrrl at 1:16 PM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

Yes, our system is biased toward letting perpetrators escape rather than toward easily finding the innocent guilty. I've always regarded that as a strength.

It's absolutely a strength... in a court of law. Nobody is facing criminal charges here. It's perfectly appropriate to decide the bar should be lower for non-criminal processes.
posted by Justinian at 1:17 PM on November 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

And then there was the time that Donald claimed “more Indian blood” than the Native Americans competing with his casinos.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:55 PM on November 27 [19 favorites +] [!]

Does this mean we can call him Pocahontas?
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:17 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Please tell me somebody's finally going to call him on his bullshit in person, in the moment he pulls it, on camera.

To our national shame, once again, no one did. However, Kristen Welker of (MS)NBC aggressively went after Huckabee Sanders about it at the presser at least. IIRC, Welker was also the one who goaded Trump with the "is a pedophile better than a Democrat?" and "what's your message to women?" about Moore last week.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:18 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Did anyone ask SHS why the president was making comments about Elizabeth Warren at an event that had absolutely nothing to do with her?
posted by theodolite at 1:18 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

All that Christmas decoration needs is Barron Trump riding the corridors on a Big Wheel.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:20 PM on November 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

Afternoon tax update:

@seungminkim: NEW: @JohnCornyn says he predicts a vote to proceed to tax bill on *Wednesday*

@sbauerAP: .@SenRonJohnson says he's still a no on the Republican tax bill, and will vote against it in committee tomorrow, but he remains optimistic that fixes will be made to get him to support it

Call your Senators.
posted by zachlipton at 1:21 PM on November 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

On Monday, yet another Republican senator aired concerns about the bill, particularly estimates that it would balloon the federal deficit by $1.2 to $1.4 trillion. Sen. James Lankford (R-OK) told reporters in a Capitol Hill press conference that he’s skeptical the promised economic growth will fill that hole, and refused to say how he will vote on the tax bill itself.

Lankford, a member of the key Senate Finance Committee that hashes out tax policy, said Republicans need to learn from what happened over the past few years in Kansas, where deep tax cuts sent the state into a fiscal crisis, forcing cuts to public school funding, roads, retiree pensions, and state universities.

When you're getting comments like that from the Senator from OKLAHOMA, your bill has problems.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:21 PM on November 27, 2017 [25 favorites]

Does this mean we can call him Pocahontas?

Nope, it's still racist.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:21 PM on November 27, 2017 [55 favorites]

It's absolutely a strength... in a court of law.

I was responding to the last sentence noting Cosby's and Allen's trials, so a court of law is relevant. And why should an accused not have the benefit of due process in any event? Why would we drop that for any accusation? I certainly didn't suggest that a Senate hearing should use the same standard as a criminal proceeding, I was just suggesting that we not bend the rules according to how heinous we find the allegations.

Finally, I pointed to civil cases explicitly because the bar is lower for those non-criminal actions.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:22 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Does this mean we can call him Pocahontas?

Nope, it's still racist.
posted by elsietheeel at 1:21 PM on November 27 [2 favorites +] [!]

Obviously. It was snark. Sorry I left off the tag.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:24 PM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

If Johnson votes no in committee it can't make it to the floor, right? Assuming all Democrats vote no (which they will.)
posted by Justinian at 1:24 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Huckabee Sanders is also 100% sure "Pocahontas" is not a racial slur. So that's good to know.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:26 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Fixing the pass-through stuff for Johnson isn't all that complicated... but it costs money. That money has to come from somewhere and raising that revenue could cost other votes. This thing is like a giant Jenga tower, if a Jenga tower was evil and liked to kill poor people.
posted by Justinian at 1:27 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

For me the Xmas decorations winner is this video showing just how much joy and wonder Melania has for ushering the magic of the season...
posted by Mchelly at 1:01 PM on November 27 [+] [!]

I think the adjective "gauche" was invented for the Trumps, among a long list of other epithets.
posted by Mental Wimp at 1:29 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

If Johnson votes no in committee it can't make it to the floor, right? Assuming all Democrats vote no (which they will.)

That's correct.

Having played this game before, I have very little faith in RonJon (we all voted on this spelling; it's official) saving us, but here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 1:29 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Did anyone ask SHS why the president was making comments about Elizabeth Warren at an event that had absolutely nothing to do with her?

Because the subject of Native American people made him think of the sick burn he came up with about a woman who claims Native ancestry and he saw a chance to trot it out in order to get some social approval from displaying his dominance over another person.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:30 PM on November 27, 2017 [22 favorites]

For me the Xmas decorations winner is this video showing just how much joy and wonder Melania has for ushering the magic of the season...

Whenever I start to feel a little bit sorry for her I remember she chooses to stay, no matter how much she complains about it, and she said the women who accused President Pussygrabber of sexual harassment were liars.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:32 PM on November 27, 2017 [17 favorites]

Melania helped push Trump's racist birther hoax ("It would be very easy if President Obama just showed it because it’s not only Donald who wants to see it — it’s American people! — who voted for him and who didn’t vote for him. They want to see it!"). She doesn't deserve an iota of our sympathy.
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:38 PM on November 27, 2017 [41 favorites]

Having played this game before, I have very little faith in RonJon (we all voted on this spelling; it's official) saving us, but here we are.

A lot of Senators are expressing reservations about this steaming pile of a bill, even those that you wouldn't normally expect. There's a lot of telegraphing going on. I'd imagine there are at least twice that number who feel the same way but who are unwilling to make a public statement.

This tax bill already has the Senate Republicans sounding less united than they did on the Obamacare Repeals. That can't bode well for its success.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:40 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Warmest holiday wishes from the Charles Foster Kanes
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:41 PM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

One small thing to consider is that Johnson has already said he won't run again, so he's not as vulnerable to donor pressure. Mind you, he's still terrible, but he can't have his arm as easily twisted.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:42 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

One small thing to consider is that Johnson has already said he won't run again, so he's not as vulnerable to donor pressure.

Johnson taking a bullet and killing this in committee would save a lot of his fellow Senators from voting for this thing. They saw what happened in Virginia, they've seen the polls about 2018, and they know Trump's up for reelection two years after that. I think self-preservation is the most powerful motivation for most of these folks.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:43 PM on November 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

I loathe these terrible people and wish them ill.

like i literally cannot even think of a bad thing that would be bad enough to happen to them that would satisfy me with its badness

and imagining bad things is my superpower
posted by poffin boffin at 1:44 PM on November 27, 2017 [56 favorites]

Dictionary.com’s Word of the Year Is Ivanka Trump-Inspired

There comes a time in every dictionary’s life when it must choose a word of the year. Dictionary.com has chosen “complicit” for 2017, announcing it in a tweet complete with its own Donald Trump joke.

posted by kirkaracha at 1:44 PM on November 27, 2017 [35 favorites]

In which the Washington Post follows the old adage "if you catch your source lying to you, that's the story": A woman approached The Post with dramatic — and false — tale about Roy Moore. She appears to be part of undercover sting operation. The Post stung back:

A woman who falsely claimed to The Washington Post that Roy Moore, the Republican U.S. Senate candidate in Alabama, impregnated her as a teenager appears to work with an organization that uses deceptive tactics to secretly record conversations in an effort to embarrass its targets.

In a series of interviews over two weeks, the woman shared a dramatic story about an alleged sexual relationship with Moore in 1992 that led to an abortion when she was 15. During the interviews, she repeatedly pressed Post reporters to give their opinions on the effects that her claims could have on Moore’s candidacy if she went public.
...
But on Monday morning, Post reporters saw her walking into the New York offices of Project Veritas, an organization that targets the mainstream news media and left-leaning groups. The organization sets up undercover “stings” that involve using false cover stories and covert video recordings meant to expose what the group says is media bias.
...
After Phillips was seen entering the Project Veritas office, The Post made the unusual decision to report her previous off-the-record comments.

“We always honor ‘off-the-record’ agreements when they’re entered into in good faith,” said Martin Baron, The Post’s executive editor. “But this so-called off-the-record conversation was the essence of a scheme to deceive and embarrass us. The intent by Project Veritas clearly was to publicize the conversation if we fell for the trap. Because of our customary journalistic rigor, we weren’t fooled, and we can’t honor an ‘off-the-record’ agreement that was solicited in maliciously bad faith.”

She approached the Post just hours after they published their first allegations against Moore.
posted by zachlipton at 1:45 PM on November 27, 2017 [166 favorites]

Project Veritas

That's James O'Keefe's outfit, nice to see his competence at these ratfucking shenanigans haven't gotten any better with time.
posted by Existential Dread at 1:48 PM on November 27, 2017 [38 favorites]

AKA Rape Boat Dude
posted by Artw at 1:50 PM on November 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

Johnson taking a bullet and killing this in committee would save a lot of his fellow Senators from voting for this thing.

He did that whole Concerned Senator presser thing with McCain saying he had, IIRC, Grave Concerns About What Would Happen if the big ACA repeal thing passed. I called his office and suggested that perhaps one ought not to vote for things with consequences unknown or unliked (and that maybe Medicare expansion should come to Wisconsin to fix some of those Grave Concerns), but of course he voted for it anyway.

I understand more senators don't like this bill, but I'm still not holding my breath for Johnson to come through.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 1:52 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Finally, I pointed to civil cases explicitly because the bar is lower for those non-criminal actions.

Removal from office ( IMNSHO because you are not holding yourself above the APPEARANCE of Impropriety ) isn't a criminal action. I wouldn't disagree that it's a Civil action at heart, and therefore the Preponderance of Evidence is a standard.

I forget who commented on my prior babbling, that "Grand Juries" is a good arbitrator of this. If a Grand Jury finds enough shady-shit to submit a True Bill, you're not good enough to represent me.

Which, you know, might be a good thing. You feel you've been abused/taken advantage of/etc, being able to confidentially let a Grand Jury decide if it's Not-Cool, might not be a bad thing. I think we'd see a lot more sexual-harassment/predator/abuse/rape prosecutions.

I could be way off base, too. But it's something to consider as long as we're white-boarding...
posted by mikelieman at 1:57 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Guys just wait for O'Keefe to finish, uh, editing the video, and you'll all be acknowledging that WaPo is full of pizza rapists or something
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:57 PM on November 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

[This is a catch-all US politics thread; Roy Moore talk goes here]
posted by Doktor Zed at 1:59 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

> Project Veritas

I really shouldn't be surprised at this point, but my mind is completely broken by yet another shadowy organization with a name straight out of dystopian fiction.
posted by MysticMCJ at 2:00 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

> Project Veritas

I really shouldn't be surprised at this point, but my mind is completely broken by yet another shadowy organization with a name straight out of dystopian fiction.

The name may be ominous and threatening, but in reality they're just as well-funded yet laughably incompetent as the diaper enthusiasts over at the humorously-named TPUSA
posted by Existential Dread at 2:06 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

It is unclear to me to what extent O'Keefe is a direct employee of Brietbart or to what extent he has been cut loose like Yiannopoulos. Very much a prototype Yiannopoulos type doofus and just as despicable.
posted by Artw at 2:07 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

If their goal is 'discrediting good journalism', could Project Veritas possibly have the "Nazi Next Door" working for them? No, wait, that would be way too competent for them.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:09 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Trump Foundation gave Project Veritas $10K a couple years ago, naturally.
posted by zachlipton at 2:13 PM on November 27, 2017 [42 favorites]

Well, of course.
posted by Dumsnill at 2:15 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Are we supposed to believe that one accuser acting in bad faith = every accuser also acting in bad faith

No, we're supposed to believe that WaPo is out to get Roy Moore. They wanted to record WaPo reporters saying "Yeah, this will totally end his candidacy, awesome" and thus discredit all of WaPo's reporting on this topic. They want it to look like WaPo doesn't fact check these allegations but just runs anything that fits their political agenda.

You know, like Fox News did with the whole "Seth Rich" thing.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:24 PM on November 27, 2017 [28 favorites]

But is any of it supposed to negate the other allegations? Are we supposed to believe that one accuser acting in bad faith = every accuser also acting in bad faith, and therefore Roy Moore is a great guy who never did any harm?

I guess the answer is obvious, huh
posted by witchen at 1:54 PM on November 27 [2 favorites +] [!]

If the press can be discredited on a story, it kills the story dead. It doesn't matter what other sources there are, because once a "serious" news organization has been bamboozled, the public assumes the whole story is false (cf, W's Air Force service and Dan Rather).
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:25 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

If the press can be discredited on a story, it kills the story dead. It doesn't matter what other sources there are, because once a "serious" news organization has been bamboozled, the public assumes the whole story is false (cf, W's Air Force service and Dan Rather).

And even if you don't kill the story dead it still plants that "they're false accusations for attention" BS seed of doubt in the populace and that commentators often trot out.
posted by Talez at 2:27 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Mod note: A note on what-goes-where: a comment linking to a major development in the Roy Moore situation is a workable thing to add to the thread here for reference; lengthy followup discussion of that development should go in the dedicated thread about it. Having that discussion in parallel here in as well isn't ideal.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:29 PM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

White House Christmas decorations or set picture from True Detective season 3?

I guess there's a lamp post at the entrance to that corridor, just behind the camera.
That's appropriate.
posted by glasseyes at 2:30 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Vox: What will it take to get Murkowski to Yes?
posted by Chrysostom at 2:31 PM on November 27, 2017

...they're just as well-funded yet laughably incompetent as the diaper enthusiasts over at the humorously-named TPUSA
posted by Existential Dread at 2:06 PM on November 27 [+] [!]

Jeebus, does the wilting irony of protesting safe places at the university where the Ohio National Guard killed four protesters not even enter into the tiny minds of these would-be Nazis?
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:34 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

What will it take to get Murkowski to Yes?

Whatever it is, I suspect Elizabeth MacDonough is so fired when the Republican Senate Caucus push to get it through.
posted by Talez at 2:36 PM on November 27, 2017

Political Wire: New Hart Research polling finds the Republican tax bill is very unpopular in Sen. Bob Corker’s home state of Tennessee (30% approve), Sen. John McCain’s and Sen. Jeff Flake’s home state of Arizona (26% approve) and Sen. Susan Collins’ home state of Maine (22% approve).
posted by Chrysostom at 2:37 PM on November 27, 2017 [30 favorites]

for some lightheartedness:

Meghan O'Keefe: I’m going to make the news all about me and say it is so weird to see my first and last names trending at such diametrically opposite poles.
posted by numaner at 2:44 PM on November 27, 2017 [14 favorites]

White House Christmas decorations or set picture from True Detective season 3?

"We have such presents to show you."
posted by octobersurprise at 2:55 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

New Hart Research polling finds the Republican tax bill is very unpopular in Sen. Bob Corker’s home state of Tennessee (30% approve), Sen. John McCain’s and Sen. Jeff Flake’s home state of Arizona (26% approve) and Sen. Susan Collins’ home state of Maine (22% approve).

Which is odd, as Lou Dobbs was howling on my way home about how Corker and Flake were complete cowards and frauds and liars who are CLEARLY out of touch with their home states and ignoring what their constituencies truly want.

And what is that, pray tell? Obviously, to return to pure Reagan supply-side economics and slash EVERYONE's taxes and watch the economy boom, boom, boom. The math necessary to get _that_ through the Senate is left as an exercise for the reader.
posted by delfin at 2:57 PM on November 27, 2017 [1 favorite]

Congratulations on totally avoiding snark in your helpful comments for the New York Times, ADL!

Many subjects are difficult to report on, but extremist and fringe movements are particularly difficult landscapes for journalists to navigate, strewn with rough terrain and the occasional landmine. As someone who has monitored right-wing extremism for more than two decades, I’ve had the pleasure of reading many fine works of journalism on extremist-related subjects, but I’ve also seen other pieces that were less successful.

posted by Mental Wimp at 2:59 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Coen Bros are not allowed to die for at least 30 years in order to ensure we get an amazing movie based on all the incompetence out of these people.
posted by tittergrrl at 3:00 PM on November 27, 2017 [19 favorites]

The Coen Bros are not allowed to die for at least 30 years in order to ensure we get an amazing movie based on all the incompetence out of these people.

True Grift?
posted by mosk at 3:03 PM on November 27, 2017 [40 favorites]

Razing Arizona
posted by delfin at 3:11 PM on November 27, 2017 [24 favorites]

> I think the adjective "gauche" was invented for the Trumps.

Sometimes people who appear to be merely gauche are actually completely sinister.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:12 PM on November 27, 2017 [55 favorites]

Are far-right/fascist/neo-Nazi beliefs really "fringe" beliefs anymore, when they are people in the White House, and doing high-profile marches? It seems fairly mainstream by now. I mean, 63 million people voted for Trump, and even though he lost the popular vote, that's an extremely large number of people.
posted by gucci mane at 3:16 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Blood Simpleton
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:16 PM on November 27, 2017 [26 favorites]

Sometimes people who appear to be merely gauche are actually completely sinister.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 3:12 PM on November 27 [4 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]


Agree. Gauche merely describes their taste. Their behavior pushes the noxious meter to 11.
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:18 PM on November 27, 2017

Anil Dash Retweeted Hari Kondabolu

Oh shit, the nuclear option.

"Hari KondaboluVerified account @harikondabolu
FELLOW DESIS: Does anyone know @AjitPaiFCC’s Mom & Dad? Maybe our parents can talk to his parents about #NetNeutraity?"


5:57 PM - 25 Nov 2017
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 3:18 PM on November 27, 2017 [71 favorites]

Burn After Reading 2: Or Don't, Fuck It, You Know?
posted by contraption at 3:24 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Burn After Tweeting

Miller's Crossing

Intolerable Cruelty
posted by box at 3:25 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mueller's Crossing
The Big Murkowski
Intolerable Cruelty
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:25 PM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Mod note: Enough.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 3:28 PM on November 27, 2017 [34 favorites]

Anna Merlan and Brendan O'Connor, Splinter: Here Are Some Facts and Questions About That Nazi the New York Times Failed to Note

Yet Fausset spent so much time staring at Hovater eating a turkey sandwich, he didn’t get around to shining much light on the particular corner his subject occupies. The Times managed to miss or gloss over a whole batch of facts and questions that might have lent both context and color to what purported to be a definitive profile of a white nationalist “foot soldier.” Here are a few of them:

He’s not really named “Tony Hovater.”

Like many neo-Nazis and white supremacists, Hovater uses a modified version of his legal name in his racist activities. His real name is William Anthony Hovater, which is the name he’s registered to vote under and which appears on other public records associated with him.

It’s unusual for any newspaper, let alone the Times, not to say when their subject isn’t using their real name. A paper that insists on noting Snoop Dogg’s legal name can probably do the same for a Nazi, no?

His wife is not really named “Maria Hovater.”

Maria Harrison, Hovater’s wife, hasn’t changed her last name. Again, it’s odd for the Times to refer to a person by anything other than their actual, legal name.

It goes on.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:34 PM on November 27, 2017 [85 favorites]

It's really weird that they would report on the same relatively-insignificant guy so many times (reportedly about 20?) and still be so vague about him. Either he's very skilled at playing them, or he's being boosted by someone on the inside.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:45 PM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

It's really weird that they would report on the same relatively-insignificant guy so many times (reportedly about 20?) and still be so vague about him. Either he's very skilled at playing them, or he's being boosted by someone on the inside.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:45 PM on November 27 [+] [!]

So can we stop calling them a liberal paper?
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:47 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Let's not rule out laziness and incompetence predicated on an almost staggering level of white privilege from the reporter and editorial staff.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:49 PM on November 27, 2017 [16 favorites]

Is it ok to like WaPo or do we hate them too?
posted by Justinian at 3:49 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

Let's not rule out laziness and incompetence predicated on an almost staggering level of white privilege from the reporter and editorial staff.
posted by Joey Michaels at 3:49 PM on November 27 [1 favorite +] [!]

Sounds pretty illiberal to me...
posted by Mental Wimp at 3:56 PM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Alexandra Petri is the only reason to not hate the WaPo.
posted by phliar at 3:57 PM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

WaPo has the issue of being owned by yet another billionaire of questionable priorities (Bezos), and it's important not to lose sight of that. They have been an excellent source of reporting in the Trump era with fewer obvious blindspots than NYT, so I hold them in much higher esteem at the moment.

This Splinter article is a hell of a callout of that Time article, particularly as relates to the TWP, and I hope that the Times reporter and editorial staff are forced to account for the gaps in their story.
posted by Existential Dread at 4:01 PM on November 27, 2017 [9 favorites]

Today in Trump Administration Resignations:

Politico: Trump White House Ethics Lawyer Exits "After almost a year in the White House counsel's office tackling a raft of ethics and financial disclosure issues, James Schultz resigned last week and is returning to private practice at the Philadelphia-based law firm where he previously worked, Cozen O'Connor. Schultz insists his exit is unrelated to any of those myriad controversies, but simply triggered by a desire to get back to private law work and back to Philadelphia, where his family has remained."

Bloomberg: Tillerson's Redesign Chief Quits After Three Months "The senior State Department official charged with overseeing U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson’s effort to overhaul the agency has resigned after just three months on the job, according to a department official. Maliz Beams was named counselor to the department on Aug. 17, according to her biography on the State Department’s website. She has decided to return to her home in Boston, and Christine Ciccone, Tillerson’s deputy chief of staff, will step in to lead the redesign effort, according to the official, who asked not to be identified discussing internal matters."

The. Best. People.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:10 PM on November 27, 2017 [23 favorites]

@cmclymer (Charles Clymér)
1/ I wanna respond to the very thin-in-reason defense of the NYT article that claims pointing out the ordinary nature of the Suburban Nazi is supposed to serve as a warning to readers. I worked at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum for a year, and I have some thoughts… (thread)
2/ For several years, there was an exhibit at USHMM called “Some Were Neighbors”. In fact, I think it’s still there. It’s meant to highlight how the Third Reich would not have come about without the complicity of civilians. Ordinary folks. Neighbors.
3/ The genius of the “Some Were Neighbors” exhibit is that it didn’t hold back. It talks about how doctors, lawyers, teachers, police officers—upstanding citizens—directly sold out their Jewish friends and neighbors. Specific stories. Brutal stories. Violence and betrayal.
4/ Throughout the exhibit were examples of real people who may have not worn Nazi armbands but turned-in Jewish folks, often unnecessarily. Some participated in violence. Most participated in discrimination. Just ordinary people behaving ruthlessly.
5/ There was no subtlety about the exhibit. The message was clear: these people are just like you, just like your friends and family, and they viciously bought into Nazi ideals. Their ears and tongues did the bulk of the legwork in rounding up Jewish folks to be exterminated.
6/ Now… I look at the NYT article, and part of me can see what they claim they were trying to do: convince readers that white supremacists are among us. But what it actually does is winking at the reader. An inside joke. A failed attempt at edgy reporting. A pitch to HBO.
7/ It’s pretty obvious to a lot of us that NYT and this reporter prioritized the spectacle and edge of the piece over an obligation to serve the public interest. Sorry, some may feel that’s harsh. But it needs to be said. This feels like entertainment, not education.
8/ I don’t think the reporter and their editor(s) did this with malicious intent. Maybe they read that really great Michiko Kakutani review from last year on “Hitler” by Volker Ullrich, in which she brilliantly reviewed the book while describing Trump without mentioning him.
9/ The problem, of course, is that’s a book review. The brilliance there is Kakutani is doing her job—reviewing the book—while winking at the reader. She can do that as a literary critic. But a reporter is supposed to report. Directly tell the brutal truth.
10/ I read the NYT profile of the Nazi, and I found myself involuntarily having pangs of sympathy. Me. Person who worked at Holocaust Museum. Who knows this subject pretty well. Who gets how propaganda works. What, then, was the reaction of less-informed Americans?
11/ It’s not a stretch to suggest that an article written with such wishy-washy, neutral descriptions of an American Nazi—the guy with cool tats and who is “nice” and well-read and had interracial couples at his wedding—may enable the feeling that Nazis aren’t so bad.
12/ And if your, uh, “reporting” can enable the feeling that Nazis aren’t so bad, maybe it’s really bad reporting, and you're mistaking decent writing skills for your crucial responsibilities as a journalist.
13/ After all, the neighbors—the ordinary citizenry—I mentioned earlier? The upstanding adults with good jobs who were friends and neighbors with Germany’s Jews and sold them out? You know how they got that way to a large extent? They read the papers. /thread
posted by chris24 at 4:21 PM on November 27, 2017 [104 favorites]

Lou Dobbs

Lou Dobbs is kind of a proto-Trump, isn’t he? Self important, xenophobic, anti-Muslim, birther, indifferent to facts, flaxen-haired, and tending to the rotund.
posted by leotrotsky at 4:28 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

@studentactivism (Angus Johnston)
One more quick thing about that NYT profile of Hovater. Remember the podcast the author mentions? Well, I listened to a couple of episodes. Here's the sole quote from the podcast that appears in the piece. It's ... not representative of the show's content. SCREENSHOT Heimbach does most of the talking on the podcast. Hovater is mostly his sidekick and foil. I never heard them disagree. Here's what I did hear…

Heimbach is obsessed with Jews, and with supposed Jewish domination of society. He uses the phrase "the Jew" a lot. He's a big fan of Hitler. He drops quotes multiple times into both episodes, usually banal ones. "As Adolf Hitler says..." Both of them are aggressively hostile toward gays and feminists, aspects of their bigotry that are never mentioned in the Times piece. It's clear that they're hoping for and working toward a Nazi takeover of the US. Heimbach uses the term "Weimerica" to describe the US today.

The themes of the podcast (mostly) aren't absent from the piece. They are, however, muted in the story. Alluded to rather than illustrated. What emerges in the podcast, and what IS absent from the story, is a clear sense of Heimbach and Hovater's organizing project, and their political vision. As I said in my previous thread, these guys aren't "Nazi sympathizers," as the article put it. They're Nazis. They're Nazis. Nazis organizing other Nazis.

Let's look at what the NYT says about the Traditionalist Worker Party, which Heimbach and Hovater co-founded. 1. It's "one of the extreme right-wing groups that marched in Charlottesville, Va., in August, and again at a 'White Lives Matter' rally last month in Tennessee." 2. Its "stated mission is to 'fight for the interests of White Americans.'" 3. Though the ADL considers it a white supremacist group, "its leaders claim to oppose racism." 4. It sells swastika armbands on its website, with a vaguely jokey description. 5. According to Hovater, "it has held food and school-supply drives in Appalachia." That's it. That's all we learn about the TWP in the Times.

You know what would have been good? "Its leaders repudiate Jews, feminists, gays, and immigrants, and are plotting to bring a Nazi regime to power in the United States." I'd encourage you again to read this thread, which covers the TWP angle in a way that resonates with what I've written here: TWEETSTORM POSTED EARLIER And again, isn't about "pushing back" against Hovater, or saying "racists are bad." It's about ACCURATELY DESCRIBING THE SUBJECT OF YOUR PROFILE. These people are engaging in, and fomenting, violence in service of Nazism. You'd never know that from reading the Times.

@lirael_abhorsenThe TWP were in fact some of the roughest fighters in Cville, IMO, along with RAM & League of the South! They were the goons with full-sized plexiglass shields & black helmets, in videos. They also stabbed people in Sacramento last year.

I learned ten times as much about Hovater and Heimbach from listening to two episodes of their stupid podcast than I did from reading the Times profile. That's a scandal. Yes, it's important to show the ways that neo-Nazi activist leaders are like regular white folks. It's also important to show how they're different. If you're going to write about these people, you have to do both. Either on its own is flat, two-dimensional.

And the more I think about it, the more I think that the "just like us" impulse was WHY the Times writer couldn't accurately depict his subject. "He's a white nationalist, but he's just like us" works, narratively. "He's obsessively committed to building a Nazi America, but he's just like us" doesn't. Most folks aren't ranting on podcasts about The Jew. Most folks don't read Goebbels. Most folks don't publicly self-identify as Nazis. That stuff is WEIRD. But that sense of weirdness, of commitment to subculture, to intentional social alienation, is absent from the piece. You wouldn't write a piece about a furry, a Scrabble pro, or a bottlecap collector without a luxuriant narrative dive into The Scene. Why do it with a Nazi?
posted by chris24 at 4:34 PM on November 27, 2017 [112 favorites]

phliar: "Alexandra Petri is the only reason to not hate the WaPo."

I note that they broke the Roy Moore story, as just one example.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:55 PM on November 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

We like Ashley Parker, too, right?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 4:59 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Washington Post has its problems, but they do good reporting.
posted by peeedro at 5:02 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

The Washington Post has its problems, but they do good reporting.

You're not kidding.
posted by marguerite at 5:11 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ah, I see that was already posted in the Roy Moore thread.
posted by marguerite at 5:14 PM on November 27, 2017

mj_lee: Pelosi says in a new statement that she spoke with and believes one of Conyers’ accusers.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:15 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

... but is still making no move to do anything about it, apparently?
posted by Justinian at 5:16 PM on November 27, 2017 [3 favorites]

Btw, in the Moore thread, Moore campaign officials are now assaulting media people.
posted by Chrysostom at 5:20 PM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

@MfaEgypt (Egypt's Ministry of Foreign Affairs)
As usual, deplorable @CNN coverage of Sinai tragedy today. Anchor more interested in reporters access to Sinai than in those who lost their lives !!!


@brhodes (Ben Rhodes, Obama advisor)
Retweeted Egypt MFA Spokesman
Most predictable thing in the world that authoritarian governments will increasingly echo Trump's media criticism.
posted by chris24 at 5:21 PM on November 27, 2017 [50 favorites]

mj_lee: Pelosi says in a new statement that she spoke with and believes one of Conyers’ accusers.

Call me crazy, but it might've been nice to do a modicum of due diligence before yammering on Sunday shows.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:27 PM on November 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

@coreyandon: Today my comrades in Socialists of Dayton successfully got the Nazi featured in the New York Times fired from his place of employment. The owners at 571 Grill and Draft House deserve endless praise for their swift action in terminating this guy.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 5:29 PM on November 27, 2017 [116 favorites]

I don’t see any other news about this, but it’s worth sticking a pin it:

Sam Levine
@srl
Pa. House Speaker Michael Turzai requests his deposition tomorrow in federal gerrymandering suit be kept under seal (Photo of filing (or whatever it’s called at tweet.)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:04 PM on November 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

Kind of an unfortunate font choice for the Socialists of Dayton.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:54 PM on November 27, 2017 [5 favorites]

In which the Washington Post follows the old adage "if you catch your source lying to you, that's the story": A woman approached The Post with dramatic — and false — tale about Roy Moore. She appears to be part of undercover sting operation. The Post stung back

Nice to see the Post recognizes O'Keefe's outfit as a pack of liars. Perhaps not they will print prominent corrections of the ACORN and Planned Parenthood stories that O'Keefe's phony videos pushed.
posted by Gelatin at 6:59 PM on November 27, 2017 [19 favorites]

One thing that keeps me up at night about the "alt right", which Dorothy Thompson pointed to:

Nazism has nothing to do with race and nationality. It appeals to a certain type of mind.

It is also, to an immense extent, the disease of a generation—the generation which was either young or unborn at the end of the last war. This is as true of Englishmen, Frenchmen, and Americans as of Germans. It is the disease of the so-called “lost generation.”

(From her essay "Who Goes Nazi?")

If shit doesn't get real first, the Baby Boomers will be the first generation to live out their lives without witnessing war along the Rhine. The first generation, that is, since the death of Charlemagne.

But now we have a whole cohort of young people, dwelling in basements and gleefully egging each on as they try to bring about situations where, to use the 4chan turn of phrase, "shit just got real." They live online, where consequences usually don't go beyond which ones and zeroes go from A to B and which do not. So they live to see consequences "get real." because never mind 1945. They don't even remember 1989. I do. I remember watching on TV as East Germans, some of them younger than my 14 year old self, ran to the Austrian Hungarian border, not sure if the Hungarians would open fire. I was in my living room, so shit didn't get real for me. And I never wished it to.

Now these troglodytes march through Charlottesville chanting "The South will rise again. Russia is our friend." Taken seriously, they were making a wish for a renewed civil war, on American soil, at the behest of a foreign power. By any definition of treason except that in the US Constitution, this goes beyond, far beyond, joining the Viet Cong for a photo op, or even taking shots against uniformed American GIs. They want shit to get real because they live in a mediated world where it has yet ever to do that to them.

Shit does need to get real wtih them, just not on their terms.
posted by ocschwar at 7:01 PM on November 27, 2017 [78 favorites]

Pa. House Speaker Michael Turzai requests his deposition tomorrow in federal gerrymandering suit be kept under seal

Unless I'm crazy, this is actually a state case (although it impacts federal districts), which is the reason why we don't have to wait for the SCOTUS decision in Gill v Wisconsin - it's the PA constitution in question.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:04 PM on November 27, 2017

The owners at 571 Grill and Draft House deserve endless praise for their swift action in terminating this guy.

Almost forgot, it's time for another round... All together now:

🎵 If you're a nazi and you're fired,
it's your fault!
👏👏

If you're a nazi and you're fired,
it's your fault!
👏👏

If you were spotted in the mob,
and you lost your fucking job,

You're a nazi, and you're fired!
It's your fault! 👏👏🎵
posted by tivalasvegas at 7:04 PM on November 27, 2017 [148 favorites]

MCain tells WSJ he's still not at Yes on the tax bill:

McCain says he's still undecided on the tax bill. Concerns? "A lot of things."

posted by Chrysostom at 7:05 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

@NatashaBertrand: New from me: James Woolsey, a former Flynn associate who has been cooperating with Mueller, had a "lengthy conversation" with Trump over dinner at Mar a Lago last weekend http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-james-woolsey-mueller-mar-a-lago-2017-11
posted by emelenjr at 7:15 PM on November 27, 2017 [12 favorites]

Loosely related to taxes, this is the first time I've noticed Rep. James Lankford's annual "look at all the money the government wastes" newsletter report. It's actually interesting reading, in that (a) someone let an intern run wild with the topic titles, (b) every one of those stories makes me think "hm, I bet there's a lot more to that story" (c) except for the F-35 one, everyone hates the F-35. Fedsmith article / direct scribd link
posted by ctmf at 7:19 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

White House Christmas decorations or set picture from True Detective season 3?

Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come.

posted by kirkaracha at 7:26 PM on November 27, 2017 [11 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:

-- Luis Gutierrez [D-IL-04] has just announced he will not be running for re-election. This is a very safe Dem district (Clinton 82-13, Obama 81-17). The interesting aspect is that there is speculation that Chicago alderman Carlos Ramirez-Rosa may run; I believe he is avowedly a Socialist.

-- The Hill: Dem lead in generic ballot polls worries GOP | The 538 average for the generic ballot is currently 46.8 -37.7, fyi.

-- NJ-11 sums up the precarious situation many Rs are in. [Bloomberg]

-- The Crosstab: The 3 Types of Districts that Could Give Democrats the House

-- Part 2 of the Vice series on Dem target districts looks at battlegrounds.

** Odds & ends:

-- NYC residents can now register to vote online. [NYDN]

-- The consent decree that restrains the GOP from intimidating voters at the polls is set to expire this week, and it is not clear if it will be extended.

-- High turnout of young people in the VA election is scaring the GOP. [WP]

posted by Chrysostom at 7:33 PM on November 27, 2017 [40 favorites]

That Lankford thing is just the latest version of the old William Proxmire waste reports, which were also about 90% BS.

There ARE wasteful government projects, but they're usually boring things like highways. It's way easier to make fun of a study into frog reproduction, even though it's like $200k.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:35 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

Corker also at Undecided:

Republican Sen. Bob Corker said on Monday that he could oppose his party's tax bill over deficit concerns in an expected Senate Budget Committee vote this week, but added that Republicans were working to resolve his concerns.

"I'm not threatening anything. I'm just saying it's very important for me to know that we've got this resolved," Corker told reporters. Asked if he could vote "no" on the tax bill at a committee hearing slated for Tuesday, he replied: "Very possible. Yeah. Sure."

posted by Chrysostom at 7:56 PM on November 27, 2017 [2 favorites]

There ARE wasteful government projects, but they're usually boring things like highwaysthe Defense Department.
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:06 PM on November 27, 2017 [8 favorites]

Alexandra Petri is the only reason to not hate the WaPo.

May I introduce you to David Fahrenthold?
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 8:16 PM on November 27, 2017 [24 favorites]

@brianefallon:
Remember that inspector general who first urged FBI to open Clinton email probe? He is out of government now & gave exclusive sitdown for Tucker Carlson tonight, suggesting Clinton should be sitting in "Leavenworth." Total straight shooter, that guy.
posted by chris24 at 8:22 PM on November 27, 2017 [7 favorites]

I can't be the only one who thinks Petri is just a small step above Borowitz, right? I read the snippets here and occasionally am linked to pieces elsewhere. But I just don't find the funny in there. Probably not my sense of humor.
posted by downtohisturtles at 8:27 PM on November 27, 2017 [10 favorites]

Access Hollywood responds to Trump:

"Let us make this perfectly clear: the tape is very real. Remember his excuse at the time was 'locker-room talk.' He said every one of those words."
posted by chris24 at 8:30 PM on November 27, 2017 [70 favorites]

I can't be the only one who thinks Petri is just a small step above Borowitz, right?

No particular love for Petri, no, but nobody – and I mean nobody – is as desiccatingly unfunny as Borowitz. He's beyond the valley of the Dad jokes, the degree zero of humor where laughter goes to die.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:35 PM on November 27, 2017 [20 favorites]

Mod note: It's ok if you don't like Petri, but let's not launch off into "let's talk about humor columnists we don't much care for" in here.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:46 PM on November 27, 2017 [6 favorites]

aw but Lobstermitten I was gonna drag out all my best Dave Barry material
posted by mightygodking at 8:50 PM on November 27, 2017 [18 favorites]

Mod note: Exactly.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:50 PM on November 27, 2017 [71 favorites]

Statement from a spokesperson for the Navajo Nation Council: "Let me be clear, such antics do not change the fact of history. Indigenous peoples' disparate socioeconomic issues are a direct result of this false narrative, and we cannot sit idly by as the citizens of the United States and our Indigenous children are gas-lighted from this terrible truth."
posted by drlith at 9:52 PM on November 27, 2017 [68 favorites]

Mod note: A couple deleted. Sorry, but we cannot support an extended digging in re the efficacy of the American legal system and sexual assault/harassment charges in this thread. Perhaps move that discussion to the Roy Moore thread or one of the other sexual assault threads.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:24 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

Kind of an unfortunate font choice for the Socialists of Dayton.

I'm reading that as a "this thing is about Africa, therefore Neuland Inline" font choice, FWIW.
posted by dhartung at 11:32 PM on November 27, 2017 [4 favorites]

I don't actually remember why we're supposed to be wary of the Washington Post under Marty Baron (any more than one should be wary of a generic mainstream media outlet owned by a billionaire tyrant). It seems like it's embodied the role that the NYT was supposed to have - a mainstream publication that might not be particularly woke, who break important stories and have decent day-to-day coverage, and whose failures tend more to the unfortunate rather than the harmful. Can someone enlighten us?
posted by Merus at 4:51 AM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Completely and loudly dismissing otherwise fairly rigorous publications based on a couple shitty opinion pieces might be a contributing factor to the situation where the actual president refers to every single even vaguely credible media source as 'fake news.'

The stupid 'Nazis - they're just like us' stuff is frankly terrible, but for fuck's sake the NYT is still a hell of a lot more credible than e.g. Washington Times or literally any independent web source. However 'yellow' their reportage can occasionally skew, they actually have editors, fact-checkers, and some sense of journalistic integrity

IIRC Miko spoke on this way back during the election threads, and I wish I'd bookmarked it.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:35 AM on November 28, 2017 [33 favorites]

Can someone enlighten us?

WAKE UP SHEEPLE.

Am I doing this right?


Full disclosure: I subscribe to the NYT. It's the only non-local paper (our local papers are garbage) that delivers an actual print edition to my house on Sundays. Call me old-fashioned, but I like having a real, physical paper around (especially because I have a kindergartner who is just learning to read and I think it's important for him to see the adults reading physical books, magazines and papers). I have not yet, to my knowledge, become a Nazi.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:44 AM on November 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

The NYT's 2016 coverage started from a Steven Bannon attack book, and ended with clearing Trump of any ties to Russia. And that was the news side, the one with supposed "integrity". The opinion page is actually the least problematic part, at least that part is clearly labeled as opinion.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:45 AM on November 28, 2017 [33 favorites]

It's not at all inaccurate to say the NYT's focus on creating the first "scandal" of the Clinton 2 administration and their completely transparent eagerness to return to the heady days of 1998, with "all Clinton scandals, all the time" coverage gave us Trump. They can't ever really recover their "journalistic integrity" after that, and they been doing a pretty shitty job even trying to make up for it compared to the Post.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:50 AM on November 28, 2017 [30 favorites]

I’m giving them my monthly money and have completely written off the New York Times

By chance, a couple of friends and I were talking about this last night and we all agreed that while the Post has the edge in political news lately, the cultural and style sections of the Times makes it a better brunch paper. When I go to the gulag, I'm taking the Times style magazine with me.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:57 AM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

> Sometimes people who appear to be merely gauche are actually completely sinister.

Leftist.
posted by Westringia F. at 6:22 AM on November 28, 2017 [33 favorites]

First thing this morning Trump tweeted fulsome compliments about Melania, as though he'd read Vanity Fair's extensive insider account about how unhappy she is as First Lady from that's being picked up everywhere in the media.

@realDonaldTrump: ‘Melania, our great and very hard working First Lady, who truly loves what she is doing¹, always thought that “if you run, you will win.”² She would tell everyone that, “no doubt, he will win.”³ I also felt I would win (or I would not have run)⁴ - and Country is doing great!’

1. An unnamed longtime friend of the Trumps’ to Vanity Fair: "This isn’t something she wanted[...]"
2. ibid: "[I]t isn’t something he ever thought he’d win."
3. ibid. "She didn’t want this come hell or high water. I don’t think she thought it was going to happen."
4. Roger Stone to Vanity Fair: "She was very clearly the one who said, ‘Either run or don’t run.’ [...] She is the one who pushed him to run just by saying run or do not run. I don’t think she was ever too crazy about it. She said, ‘It’s not my thing. It’s Donald’s thing.’"

Also, it's clear by now that Twitter's original length, by imposed the only discipline Trump has ever experienced in his public statements, granted him the illusion of a pithy wit. 280 characters allows him Trump to rant and ramble with space left over for a non sequitur or two.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:34 AM on November 28, 2017 [27 favorites]

How do so many people fail to see this loser as a loser? His neediness is palpable. He’s insecurity personified. He’s a transparent joke. How does anyone fail to see it?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 6:47 AM on November 28, 2017 [48 favorites]

I have not yet, to my knowledge, become a Nazi.

But they're just like us, soren_lorensen, so how would you know? HOW WOULD YOU KNOW
posted by contraption at 6:48 AM on November 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

How do so many people fail to see this loser as a loser? His neediness is palpable. He’s insecurity personified. He’s a transparent joke. How does anyone fail to see it?

Stupid. Racist. Vile.
posted by chris24 at 6:57 AM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

He hates the same people they do.
posted by delfin at 6:58 AM on November 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

Melania, our great and very hard working First Lady, who truly loves what she is doing, always thought that “if you run, you will win.”

Coincidentally "If you run you will win" is what the ghost of Clara Petacci appears and tells her every night.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:03 AM on November 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

How do so many people fail to see this loser as a loser? His neediness is palpable. He’s insecurity personified. He’s a transparent joke. How does anyone fail to see it?

"The coming of the lawless one is apparent in the working of Satan, who uses all power, signs, lying wonders, and every kind of wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion, leading them to believe what is false, so that all who have not believed the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned."
posted by halation at 7:04 AM on November 28, 2017 [24 favorites]

"He tells is like it is."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:05 AM on November 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

@CheriJacobus (GOP pundit/consultant)
Trump's a poor person's idea of what a rich person is, dumb person's idea of what smart person is, weak person's idea of what strong person is
posted by chris24 at 7:19 AM on November 28, 2017 [63 favorites]

"Luis Gutierrez [D-IL-04] has just announced he will not be running for re-election. This is a very safe Dem district (Clinton 82-13, Obama 81-17). The interesting aspect is that there is speculation that Chicago alderman Carlos Ramirez-Rosa may run; I believe he is avowedly a Socialist."

Ramirez-Rosa is a Socialist (although would run as a Democrat, I think), and a talented politician, and came up as an aide to Gutierrez, so he knows the district really well and they know him. However, he has strong pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel opinions, and he expresses them really carelessly, in the language of a 20-year-old college socialist who hasn't met any Jews, and he's been dogged by accusations of anti-Semitism since he became a professional politician as a result. If he is considering a run, I hope he's meeting with the ADL and every Jewish organization in Chicago, and really hearing and learning and understanding the Jewish community and its concerns, and he works with some PR folks who know the issue really well and help him get a lot more careful in how he talks about it. I've followed him fairly closely, and I think he's largely anti-Netanyahu and anti-Netanyahu's policies, which I think is a position you can get elected with in Illinois, but his language around it is uneducated and careless and depends on the reader knowing enough about Millennial socialists to know how they talk and to fill in the blanks, and it already tanked his run for Lt. Gov. when his statements on Israel rendered him too toxic for a statewide run.

I think he's talented and smart, and I think he could be a really great asset and ally for Progressives, but he's 28 and a bit of a know-it-all socialist bro who does that thing where he waves aside problems he doesn't personally care about as "just economics" that can be solved with socialism. I think maturity and experience will do a lot to ameliorate that, but it makes me a little nervous if he's running so soon after his Lt. Gov. debacle. I think people will forgive that false start if he shows he's listened and learned and can express himself in a more nuanced and respectful way and understands the concerns of his Jewish constituents. But the Lt. Gov. thing was like three months ago. A Congressional run with racism problems will probably be the end of his aspirations for higher office, and I'm not convinced 3 months is enough time to get your head right.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:21 AM on November 28, 2017 [42 favorites]

Because fuck it, it's 2017 -- CFPB's dueling interim directors is likened to a fantasy series:

SIEGEL: Back to this this dispute today of the two claimants to being the acting director of the bureau, is there any precedent for it that would guide the courts in settling this?

LEVITIN: Oh, I think one has to either look back to, you know, disputes about the pope and the anti-pope or maybe go to "Game Of Thrones" - that in modern American history, there's nothing like this.

Georgetown Law professor Adam Levitin sides with Leandra English, based on the language and legislative history of the Dodd-Frank Act.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:27 AM on November 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

Pizzagate analysis in Rolling Stone by Amanda Robb (with Aaron Sankin, Laura Starecheski, Michael Corey, Jaime Longoria and Jasper Craven). Lots of gold in them thar hills, but this stuck out for me:

Another possible germ of Pizzagate appeared online about 10 hours before Katz posted her story on Facebook. TheeRANT describes itself as a message board for "New York City cops speaking their minds." Virtually everyone on the site uses an identity-masking screen name. Favorite topics include police body cameras (bad) and George Soros (worse). On October 29th, 2016, someone calling himself "Fatoldman" posted that he had a "hot rumor" about the FBI investigation.

"[T]he feds were forced to reopen the hillary email case [because] apparently the NYPD sex crimes unit was involved in the weiner case," Fatoldman wrote. "On his laptop they saw emails. [T]hey notified the FBI. Feds were afraid that NYPD would go public so they had to reopen or be accused of a coverup."

posted by Mental Wimp at 7:38 AM on November 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

This week's to-do list for Congress, summed up on NPR yesterday: pass tax bill this week to overhaul the tax code before Christmas, and ...

The Children's Health Insurance Program has already ran out of money. That expired in September. States have been using creative budgeting to keep that going, but many states are starting to hit a deadline. And 9 million children get health insurance through CHIP. Some of them might run out of coverage very soon if Congress doesn't do something.

There's a law authorizing foreign electronic surveillance that expires. President Trump has asked for about $44 million in additional emergency funding for hurricane and wildfire recovery. And, oh, by the way, government funding expires at the end of next week, December 8.

With Trump set to meet with Democratic congressional leaders, we'll see if they actually use their leverage.

It'll be interesting to watch whether Pelosi and Schumer say, hey, we'll vote for government funding if you stabilize Obamacare markets or if you, among other things, put some sort of permanent fix in place for DACA, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.

And as a reminder of the ineptitude of Trump and how that's a win for the country, Jonah Goldberg summed up what should and what is happening with congressional deal-making yesterday on NPR:

part of the problem is is that the traditional role of selling this to senator is - of wheeling, dealing and giving, you know, perks and presents to senators to get them on board is normally the job played by the president....
MARTIN: And is he not doing it this time?

GOLDBERG: And he's not doing it.

MARTIN: So it's like health care. He's just taking a back seat.

GOLDBERG: Right. So Mitch McConnell is playing that role, and the problem is is that the Senate majority leader's goody bag is much shallower than the president's goody bag.

In some alternate timeline, a competent Trump would have been a force to be reckoned with, truly reshaping the country as he works with the House and Senate Republican majorities. Instead, his major impact is in judicial placements and gutting agencies. The latter can be fixed relatively quickly, but the former will take more time to undo (or outweigh).
posted by filthy light thief at 7:41 AM on November 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

And a recap on Virgina's House of Delegates issues:

MCCAMMON: ... the big reason is that control of the Virginia House of Delegates is at stake here. So these two races are in adjoining districts, and state election officials have said that at least 147 people in that area voted in the wrong House of Delegates race. It's not totally clear what went wrong, but some voters were assigned to the wrong districts. And to make matters worse, Robert, the local registrar in the area in question died earlier this year, so she's unable to explain the mix-up.

In one of these districts, the Republican won by a few thousand votes. But in the other one, it was much tighter. The candidates were separated by less than a hundred votes. That one of course has been the most contentious. So today state elections officials met, and in each case, they said the Republican is the winner.

SIEGEL: So what happens next? Does this mean that the Republicans will control the Virginia House of Delegates?

MCCAMMON: As it stands with all the House races now certified, Republicans would have a 51-49 majority. But Democrats are expected to ask for recounts in a few races that were very close. In at least one case, we're talking about a margin of 10 votes or so. Democrats have shown a willingness, too, to take this fight to court. For example, just before Thanksgiving, they tried unsuccessfully to sue to stop the state board of elections from certifying these results.

But Democrats now say they're assessing their options for how to move forward, so we could see more litigation about some of these voting irregularities or other issues. And meanwhile, the incoming Republican House leader says he's pleased that the results have been certified but expressed disappointment at how long the process has taken.

I'd laugh and say this felt like the multiple endings of the movie Clue, except this is serious.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:45 AM on November 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

The Children's Health Insurance Program has already ran out of money.

Ugh. Both grammatically and factually.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:53 AM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mod note: Heya, megathreaders, we've got a long thing in MetaTalk about reworking US politics discussions on the site for you to read.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:56 AM on November 28, 2017 [29 favorites]

Masha Gessen interviewed by Jeffrey Goldberg, The Atlantic. Interesting and thought-provoking.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 8:07 AM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

The Senate Budget Committee vote to advance Tax Reform out of committee is this afternoon (Link to CSPAN's coverage). 1:30PM CST.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:07 AM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I'm curious why Schumer and Pelosi aren't saying, "If you raise taxes on working people to give tax cuts to mega-corporations and heiresses, we're shutting down the government."

Seems like that's a position that lots of folks could get behind.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:13 AM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'm curious why Schumer and Pelosi aren't saying, "If you raise taxes on working people to give tax cuts to mega-corporations and heiresses, we're shutting down the government."

Wouldn't that hurt the same people?
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:16 AM on November 28, 2017

I'm curious why Schumer and Pelosi aren't saying, "If you raise taxes on working people to give tax cuts to mega-corporations and heiresses, we're shutting down the government."

Because the headline will read:

Schumer and Pelosi say, "We’re shutting down the government."

The difference between us and Fox News is that we give a shit about the hostage. That’s why it’s leverage for Republican Congress members and poison for Democrats.
posted by Talez at 8:18 AM on November 28, 2017 [31 favorites]

filthy light thief I think the worst part about the Virginia election is that it shouldn't have been close at all.

The Democrats got roughly 59% of the votes for the House of Delegates. In any sane world, since the House of Delegates has 100 seats, that would mean the Democrats have a very comfortable 59 seat majority.

But, since this is Gerrymander World, not a sane world, a sweeping, perhaps once in a generation, 10 point lead for the Democrats is not sufficient and the Republicans, despite losing 41% to 59% still have a fucking majority in the House of Delegates and can effectively prevent the Democratic governor from getting anything done.

If winning by 59% is not quite enough to get you a majority then something is deeply, horribly, wrong.
posted by sotonohito at 8:19 AM on November 28, 2017 [69 favorites]

Schumer and Pelosi say, "We’re shutting down the government."

...to prevent Republicans from raising your taxes. I don't see where the problem is.

The counterargument I've heard is that, if Schumer and Pelosi make it explicit, McConnell and Ryan can use it as leverage with the wingnut wing of their party to find the votes to keep the government open and make the Dems votes unnecessary.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:27 AM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Re Gutierrez: Looks like he will be endorsing Cook County Commissioner Jesus “Chuy” Garcia (you might remember him from his mayoral run).
posted by Chrysostom at 8:28 AM on November 28, 2017

On that note: it’s breaking now that Schumer and Pelosi have just announced they’re canceling their meeting with Trump. Because of his inane tweet (naturally) claiming he doesn’t see a deal to avoid a shutdown.

Good lord he’s terrible at negotiating.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 8:40 AM on November 28, 2017 [53 favorites]

If winning by 59% is not quite enough to get you a majority then something is deeply, horribly, wrong.

You need to account for the fact that Republicans didn't run in 32 districts, while Democrats didn't run in only 16. That's going to increase the D count. And there is geographical sortation going on - you only can only have a House that matches the statewide vote count if you have non-geographically based districts.

That isn't to say gerrymandering didn't have some influence, it did. But there's more than that going on.

[the Election Day thread is still open, maybe VA election discussion goes there?]
posted by Chrysostom at 8:40 AM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Like a riot, a government shutdown is a terrible thing that affects a hell of a lot of people, and if you're going to let one happen you had better be damn sure that it's the best remaining course of action.

The Louie Gohmerts of the world love the idea because a drowned-in-a-bathtub government is what they want in the first place. Dems know better than that. Plus, a shutdown is more of a delaying action than a preventative one; the end result is likely that the Repubs push their tax cuts through anyway, but now they can also point to short-term suffering and shout Look What Chuck And Nancy Did To You.
posted by delfin at 9:10 AM on November 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

So apparently Joe Scarborough took down all his Trump related tweets, and Keith Olbermann just retired as a political commentator (because he believes Trump is finished). Drudge said Whitehouse is expecting a bombshell. Something is going on, but I have no idea what it is.
posted by TwoWordReview at 9:20 AM on November 28, 2017 [39 favorites]

Surprisingly, given its stance on global warming, the Trump Administration has mostly continued to back the Montreal Protocol, even supporting strengthening it. This is the treaty to deal with the ozone hole, but it has ended up actually being a way to eliminate a lot of greenhouse gases. [Vox]
posted by Chrysostom at 9:20 AM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Surprisingly, given its stance on global warming, the Trump Administration has mostly continued to back the Montreal Protocol, even supporting strengthening it.

It's because Dupont, Honeywell et al have managed to weaponize environmental regs and profit off them. They do R&D, find a new refrigerant, patent it, then moves to ban their old refrigerants as unsafe as they come off patent. If the Montreal Protocol wasn't constantly being strengthened then cheap generic Chinese refrigerants would have a chance at the domestic refrigerant market share and that's where huge amounts of money are.
posted by Talez at 9:33 AM on November 28, 2017 [21 favorites]

Something is going on, but I have no idea what it is.

Optimistically? Muellermas is about to kick off in earnest.

Realistically? Scarborough and Olbermann have accusers about to come forward and Drudge has gotten wind of it. Has Roger Stone posted anything about either on his twitter?
posted by asteria at 9:46 AM on November 28, 2017 [37 favorites]

Drudge has gotten wind of it.

The Drudge thing about the bombshell is just a small link to the Washington Examiner positing that 45's extensive tweeting over the Thanksgiving weekend could be a reaction and/or planned distraction from an as-of-yet unknown topic, possibly Russia / Mueller.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 9:51 AM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

Honestly, I think there are some tapes about to drop. And that's why Trump is telling people the Access Hollywood tape is fake. But I don't know how or if that would connect to Olbermann and Scarborough.
posted by asteria at 9:55 AM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

So apparently Joe Scarborough took down all his Trump related tweets, and Keith Olbermann just retired as a political commentator (because he believes Trump is finished). Drudge said Whitehouse is expecting a bombshell. Something is going on, but I have no idea what it is.

I think the above has something to do with this thing below, or vice-versa

@NatashaBertrand: New from me: James Woolsey, a former Flynn associate who has been cooperating with Mueller, had a "lengthy conversation" with Trump over dinner at Mar a Lago last weekend http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-james-woolsey-mueller-mar-a-lago-2017-11

At this point, it's unlikely Woolsey would be doing something criminal or even slightly wrong. That would be crazy in a way Woolsey does not seem to be crazy. So one guess could be he is a messenger, telling Trump to get out now "for the sake of the nation". The thing is, it's also unlikely he can promise Trump anything substantial in return. Trump's crimes are much worse than Nixon's and Republicans still have a living memory of the hit they took by letting Nixon off back then. (Also, public faith in the rule of law and stuff like that).
posted by mumimor at 10:09 AM on November 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

No matter the distraction, unless it's a freaking perp walk down the White House lawn, light up the United States Capitol switchboard at [phone]. Call your Senators and let them know how much you hate the tax bill. And everything else they stand for that supports this kakocracy.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:12 AM on November 28, 2017 [32 favorites]

Olbermann has been very high on my list of men who I'm stunned haven't been taken down by #metoo allegations already, in a "wait, Abe Vigoda wasn't dead already?" sort of way. So yeah, it seems far-fetched to think that he'd use this as a convenient excuse to bow out before that happens, but a lot of things in politics and in how men are responding to sexual assault claims make no sense to me, so it's as credible a theory as any.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:13 AM on November 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Tax bill developments:

* Corker still sounding no-ish:

You could take the entire individual portion of this bill, throw it in the trash, "put it in the incinerator, and I would be thrilled" - @SenBobCorker. on @CNBC now

* GOP may have to deal with pay score issues:

After claiming their tax cuts would pay for themselves, GOP had been trying to rush through a Senate vote before JCT (Congress’s nonpartisan scorekeeper on tax legislation) had a chance to fact-check this claim. But turns out JCT may release its dynamic analysis TOMORROW.

posted by Chrysostom at 10:14 AM on November 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

Scarborough and Olbermann could both go down in flames on sexual misconduct allegations or whatever and it wouldn't really make a difference on Russia, taxes, etc. It would be a thing for the regime to crow about and it would be a minor distraction, but they find those things all the time anyway. Yesterday it was the Pocahontas bullshit. Today and tomorrow it will be something else. And in all honesty, this regime will probably distract everyone from that beneficial (to them) distraction with some other self-inflicted wound within 48 hours. Hell, 48 is generous. We've seen it before.

If they're waiting eagerly for two TV blowhards to take a big hit, they're going to be disappointed in its overall value.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:17 AM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Like a riot, a government shutdown is a terrible thing that affects a hell of a lot of people, and if you're going to let one happen you had better be damn sure that it's the best remaining course of action.

This. I remember the last shutdown in 2013, and I still remember people I know in research who suddenly had an awful lot of uncertainty about whether they were even allowed to work, whether their careers would be justified, whether their paychecks were coming in. One friend I had at the CDC basically got two weeks of unplanned and unpaid vacation with no word when her job was going to come back; people I know on federal grant money were given conflicting and upsetting information about whether they were allowed to work or not, while knowing damn well that whether or not they got paid, they would be taking a career hit by not working.

I'm a state employee, so it didn't hit me directly--but I still saw a lot of people it did hit and confuse and upset directly, and it left me really shaken and unsettled about the nation's trajectory. I think it's probably that moment that really left me feeling like the government and the nation gave no shits about scientists and started what has become a deep depression about my field and its value from the American people. That and the sequester hit us very, very hard in ways that I suspect folks in other professions without as much reliance on federal funding might not quite understand.
posted by sciatrix at 10:18 AM on November 28, 2017 [41 favorites]

How do so many people fail to see this loser as a loser? His neediness is palpable. He’s insecurity personified. He’s a transparent joke. How does anyone fail to see it?

His supporters look at him and see themselves in a mirror. Same attitudes, same personality, and he is rich and successful and powerful. He's their dream of making it big without changing themselves.
posted by happyroach at 10:24 AM on November 28, 2017 [30 favorites]

On a more cheery note, I absolutely called my local senatorial offices today to chew them out over the tax bill ad net neutrality. Decided once I'd got through to an actual human that I didn't think I'd been firm enough at the DC offices and anyway, I'd forgotten to say the magic "I'm a constituent" words and hadn't forced my name and zip codes on them, so I went and hit up regional offices until I found ones with unjammed phones.

Then I happily spent about twenty or thirty minutes apiece asking the reps questions like "Does Senator Cruz value tax breaks for millionaires over health benefits for hardworking Americans like me making under $40,000 a year? Because that trickle-down nonsense has been failing to pan out since before I was born" and "I understand that Senator Cornyn supports Ajit Pai's removal of Net Neutrality regulations. Does he support hurting little, entrepreneurial businesses and supporting technocratic megacorporations? Here, my roommate's little Etsy store is standing to lose traffic and business if this thing takes off. How does the senator feel about crushing innovation by letting broadband giants strangle new companies if they can't pay their protection money?"

I was feeling pretty good about myself by the time I called my house rep, thanked him for his service fighting down the tax bill and got his cheerful agreement to fight for Net Neutrality, and asked him to encourage House Democrats to build a united progressive front that we can fight behind.
posted by sciatrix at 10:25 AM on November 28, 2017 [84 favorites]

This is the guy Flynn was going to kidnap. Allegedly.

Feds Flip Turkish Crook; Did He Rat on Michael Flynn? (Katie Zavadski, Daily Beast)

Reza Zarrab, a Turkish businessman accused of violating U.S. sanctions on Iran, pleaded guilty and will testify against his co-defendant, a federal court heard Tuesday. Zarrab’s cooperation with federal prosecutors could have implications for Michael Flynn, who allegedly plotted on behalf of Turkish interests to help free Zarrab.

Zarrab, a 34-year-old Turkish-Iranian gold trader, is at the center of an Iran sanctions-busting case in which he used his companies and Turkish state-run banks to trade cash for gold in order to secretly buy oil from Iran. A former deputy general manager of one of those banks, Mehmet Atilla, is charged as part of that same conspiracy.

posted by Room 641-A at 10:37 AM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

My husband is a federal employee and I'm a state employee. He likes the government shut downs because it's a forced vacation and I'm always still working, and they usually (always?) get paid anyway. I'd be a little more leery under this administration.

Another report from my husband is that his entity (under DOI) used to get emails from previous presidents about various things but they haven't had a single email from Trump yet. I've been telling him that's because Trump has no idea that his (my husband's) agency even exists! Which is good - they need to stay under the radar. Trump would have no use for my husband's agency so we're hoping he remains ignorant.
posted by Squeak Attack at 10:38 AM on November 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

> This is the guy Flynn was going to kidnap. Allegedly.

Different Turk, unless he's plotted to kidnap more than one (hey, it's 2017). The previously reported Flynn-Turkey connection had him plotting to kidnap the Turkish dissident cleric (and Erdoğan's favorite scapegoat) Fethullah Gülen.
posted by Westringia F. at 10:47 AM on November 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

This is the guy Flynn was going to kidnap. Allegedly.

For the record, that's actually the guy who was (allegedly) going to be Flynn's accomplice/co-conspirator in his kidnapping plan. The kidnap target was the anti-Erdogan cleric Fethullah Gulen.
posted by mhum at 10:47 AM on November 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

Jennifer Rubin in the Washington Post: You can’t reason with some people

Likewise, when aides, activists and staffers openly declare that a partisan vote is more important than a victim (or in the case of Roy Moore, lots of alleged victims), what’s the point of listening to them or giving them a platform? They’ve told you that truth, decency, facts and everything else take second place to the preservation of the cult/party/president. That’s Kellyanne Conway’s modus operandi now. [...]

At some point, some segment of Trump’s voters became so intellectually or morally corrupt as to become cultist. Hillary Clinton called them “deplorables” — and then took a beating for casting millions of Americans as racist. It’s time, I would suggest, to accept an unpleasant reality — there are some Americans who are not operating in good faith and are unreachable by logic or appeals to decency. How many of President Trump’s supporters fall into that category? We don’t know. But one comes to the conclusion that a good deal of the jaw-dropping spin that comes from Trump, his press secretary, his aides and the Fox News sycophants is designed to give this group of cultists something — anything to say — when confronted with reality. It need not be true, rational, decent or consistent. It’s filler for them to use, akin to putting their fingers in their ears and humming, when confronted by reality-based Americans or real news. We shouldn’t be surprised that Trump’s base has not abandoned him; people who look to him rather than their religious messiah are not going to change their minds based on real-world events.

While many of us have known that there's a substantial proportion of voters in our country that are really not operating in good faith, it's certainly nice to see it really sink in for people like Jennifer Rubin (and to a lesser extent Bill Kristol). I hope others really start to get the picture.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:49 AM on November 28, 2017 [107 favorites]

Wow, total reading comprehension fail, thanks for the correction.
posted by Room 641-A at 10:52 AM on November 28, 2017

I think it's probably that moment that really left me feeling like the government and the nation gave no shits about scientists

I've seen two of these now (96 and 13) and shutdowns are indeed abrupt and brutal, especially for non essential services like research. It's very hard for me, even what just hitting my 20 year career mark not to feel exactly the same way. Time sensitive and field experiments wait for no one. Shutdown is awful.

To be clear I'm not one of those folks, but they are often my direct partners and collaborators.
posted by bonehead at 10:55 AM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Zarrab... Zarrab... Oh yeah, this guy:

"Mr. Zarrab, whom prosecutors have depicted as a man of considerable wealth and influence in Turkey, retained Mr. Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, and Michael B. Mukasey, a former attorney general in President George W. Bush’s administration, to explore a possible diplomatic resolution to his case, outside of normal plea bargaining channels. In a court filing in April, Mr. Mukasey described the effort as seeking “a state-to-state resolution of this case.”"
posted by OnceUponATime at 10:58 AM on November 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

you only can only have a House that matches the statewide vote count if you have non-geographically based districts.

This is not true. You can draw maps that produce districts that result in an equitable outcome. And it is obvious that Republicans have drawn maps deliberately to produce districts that result in an inequitable outcome.
posted by JackFlash at 11:02 AM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Maybe it's worth posting a link again to my list in a previous megathread of places where stories about Russia and stories about Turkey overlap, within the current administration.
posted by OnceUponATime at 11:02 AM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Yeah. I do a lot of behavioral work, so my experiments usually require me to come in at a very specific time every day for several days in a row when I'm doing a run, and setup often requires a few days to a week. It is not trivial to me to pause experiments on a dime, and I am far from alone in this in research.

It's probably the thing that is most making me want to leave research. I keep wrestling with this, because there are things I love about this work, but it's like... I went to grad school starting fall 2012 having been warned full well that there might not be jobs beyond this--and in fact my PI went to grad school on the same philosophy and encourages us to eye up other options, which he told me in summer 2013--the '13 shutdown happened almost immediately afterward, I had two years of rough life dealing with my family and then all of this happened and and and and--

at a certain point, I wonder if I'm actually a masochist, you know? There's a certain amount of failure and struggling against unfeeling research that just is endemic to science, and in a lot of ways I feel like I'm grappling with that + a bunch of external threats + no actual certainty of any reward, and if I do get one it's going to mean another three to five years of precarious positions worldwide. I'd like to have kids at some point, and I'd like to not actively be living paycheck to paycheck when I do.

I don't know. It's a struggle, and I am not sure where I'm going to leap when I finish.
posted by sciatrix at 11:04 AM on November 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

A major concern I have regarding a shutdown is that it could potentially seriously affect the lives of people in residential treatment facilities who receive substantial federal funding. The folks I work with are often in these situations and if there's no federal bureaucracy to keep things moving along, they may very well have significantly lower levels of care than they need. Needless to say, I'd be really pissed off, no matter who initiated the shutdown. As we've seen with CHIP, just because there is no money for something does not mean that this Congress will do anything to rectify the situation, even after the money has run out and millions of children are on the verge of losing their insurance.

I think this taxation scam can be killed through tactics other than shutting down the government--going the shutdown route just plays into the hands of folks like Ted Cruz.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 11:05 AM on November 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

If there's a shutdown, how much more fuckery could the regime and Republicans in Congress push through as a result? Do we lose things like the CBO or other entities who might weigh in on the bad consequences of their nonsense?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:24 AM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

If there's a shutdown, it will blot out the sun just like in 2013. Congress will be paralyzed until it's solved, and there won't be anyone allowed to work at any of the agencies except for border and FBI agents, so nothing will get done at all, fuckery included.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:29 AM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Good TPM Flynn article. "It is very hard not to reach the conclusion that something happened to Flynn, some clear break or event that put him on the course he was on by 2015, only months after he left the DIA."
posted by Chrysostom at 11:35 AM on November 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Senate Budget Committee live on YouTube
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:36 AM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

If there's a shutdown, will it be exactly what Bannon and his Nazi fellow travellers always wanted?
posted by Myeral at 11:41 AM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Sen. Corker says he's now a YES to advance the tax bill out of the budget committee. Unless there's another no vote hiding somewhere in there, that's enough to move it forward. He says he's worked out a deal for a trigger that would raise revenues if they come in below expectations, and gosh am I curious what the details are there. The hearing is now in recess due to a protest in the committee room.

Let's talk about triggers for a second, because a number of Senators are demanding them. Tax triggers. Matt Yglesias explains, A deficit trigger can’t fix the GOP tax plan. The dream is that an automatic measure would scale back the tax cuts if the economy doesn't grow as fast as supply-siders claim. A lovely thought, but it's an awful idea that would automatically constrict fiscal policy in the event of a recession, bringing "a hefty dose of anti-stimulus to the economy" at the moment it would be most harmful.

WaPo, Pelosi, Schumer pull out of White House meeting over spending. Following Trump's "I don’t see a deal" with "Chuck and Nancy" tweet this morning, Pelosi and Schumer cancelled their meeting at the White House, saying there was no point in "a show meeting that won’t result in an agreement." They say they'll just meet with Ryan and McConnell instead. Sarah Sanders called for the Democrats to "stop the political grandstanding," as she apparently does not read her boss's Twitter feed.

A note that the trial is underway in the January 20 inauguration day protests in DC, in which the government is charging six demonstrators with involvement in a riot, seeking to hold them responsible for the collective behavior of the crowd regardless of their individual actions.

Josh Marshall has a good piece analyzing the new Zarrab story in context with what we know about Flynn: Flynn’s Deeds Are Much Worse Than We Thought. Marshall seems to think something happened to Flynn after he left DIA, but honestly, I think it started earlier, leading to the end of his tenure. Things were bad enough there his subordinates started calling his dubious claims "Flynn facts." But something happened to him, and it couldn't have been pretty.

Matt Lewis asks an important question: Why Are Conservative Donors Funding James O’Keefe in the First Place?, in which donors keep propping up the O’Keefes, Bannons, and Moores of the right.

In two paragraphs, Greg Sargent summed up the central paradox of the tax bill, from GOP’s new scheme to save Trump’s tax plan reveals the scam at its core

The center of the Senate GOP tax plan is a large permanent cut to the tax rate paid by corporations. These would themselves overwhelmingly benefit the wealthy, because the vast majority of their benefits would go to shareholders and capital. But Republicans face two challenges. The first is to sell this primarily as a middle-class tax cut, so voters accept it. They do this by front-loading a bunch of preferences for the middle class along with cuts to individual rates across the board. The second challenge is to do this while simultaneously making the case that the plan would not balloon the deficit, to hold on to deficit-hawk senators and because if it raises the deficit in the long term, procedurally it can’t pass by simple majority with only Republican votes. Republicans address this problem by ending all the middle-class preferences and individual rate cuts after 2025.

But the problem is that the second imperative undermines the first. Because the middle-class benefits must be temporary to avoid busting the long-term deficit, analyses have found that in the long run, it would shower enormous long-term benefits on the rich while the benefits to the middle class fade away and taxes go up later for many less-fortunate earners. The whole point of back-loading the losses on to that latter group later is to prevent the permanent corporate tax cuts from ballooning the long-term deficit, allowing a huge permanent tax cut overwhelmingly benefiting the rich to pass with no Democrats.

Alexander-Murray will never, ever die. Like, someday the Earth will be gone, and a class of alien kids will be told by their Earth Studies teachers to open their textbooks and read about the Alexander-Murray stabilization bill, which consumed the attention of the US Government from 2017 to the time of the heat death of the universe. @sahilkapur: TRUMP just told Republican senators he supports the Alexander-Murray ACA stabilization bill, per Mike Rounds who was in the room.

And, um... @CQnow: "Senate Injury Update 🤕: @SenatorBurr has a self-inflicted black eye. "I hit myself in the face with a crowbar," he said."

*deep breath* He punched the Burr, sir?
posted by zachlipton at 11:47 AM on November 28, 2017 [45 favorites]

After Sanders did his ranking member opening statement, protests broke out. I am living for this.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 11:48 AM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Corker no longer sounding no-ish?

CORKER says he has a commitment on a trigger mechanism that would mitigate the tax bill’s impact on the deficit. He will vote YES on budget committee markup this afternoon.
posted by delfin at 11:48 AM on November 28, 2017

You need to account for the fact that Republicans didn't run in 32 districts, while Democrats didn't run in only 16. That's going to increase the D count. And there is geographical sortation going on - you only can only have a House that matches the statewide vote count if you have non-geographically based districts.

That isn't to say gerrymandering didn't have some influence, it did. But there's more than that going on.

But note that the imbalance between R and D non-competitive districts is a direct result of gerrymandering. You pack as many Ds into as few districts as possible and your get nearly all D districts non-competitive enough to discourage an opponent. On the other hand, you make as many 60/40 R districts as possible.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:49 AM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

These protesters are making me cry. WTF is wrong with our country.
posted by lumnar at 11:49 AM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

filthy light thief: With Trump set to meet with Democratic congressional leaders, we'll see if they actually use their leverage.

Update: Top Democrats Pull Out Of Planned Meeting With Trump (NPR, Nov. 28, 2017)

That meeting between President Trump and the bipartisan leaders of Congress will not be bipartisan after all, since Democratic leaders suddenly pulled out of the planned Tuesday afternoon get-together at the White House.

Meeting with “Chuck and Nancy” today about keeping government open and working. Problem is they want illegal immigrants flooding into our Country unchecked, are weak on Crime and want to substantially RAISE Taxes. I don’t see a deal!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 28, 2017

"Given that the President doesn't see a deal between Democrats and the White House, we believe the best path forward is to continue negotiating with our Republican counterparts in Congress instead," Pelosi and Schumer said in their joint statement. "Rather than going to the White House for a show meeting that won't result in an agreement, we've asked (Senate Majority Leader Mitch) McConnell and (House Speaker Paul) Ryan to meet this afternoon." (CNN with embedded auto-playing video)
posted by filthy light thief at 11:51 AM on November 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

And Susan Collins is now saying all her concerns are being addressed. This is passing. Not one Republican will vote against it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:51 AM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

A lovely thought, but it's an awful idea that would automatically constrict fiscal policy in the event of a recession, bringing "a hefty dose of anti-stimulus to the economy" at the moment it would be most harmful.

Not only that but there are trillions locked outside the US by companies avoiding the corporate tax rate. All they need is one day to bring that back at 20% instead of 35 and they will make squillions for their shareholders. It will be one of the largest plunders of wealth in history. Yeah they can jack the taxes back up but those hundreds of billions of dollars will be gone. Forever.
posted by Talez at 11:55 AM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Corker and Johnson flip to yes, the bill advances out of the Budget Committee on a party-line vote. It could be on the floor as soon as Thursday.

Call.
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 AM on November 28, 2017 [31 favorites]

Republican deficit hawks passing a $1.5T handout for the rich.

The arsonists are about to be very concerned about the burning house.
posted by 0xFCAF at 12:00 PM on November 28, 2017 [8 favorites]

Collins actually said: "Sen Susan Collins says “a lot of my concerns are being addressed,” leaning toward supporting the tax bill after meeting with Trump and Senate Republicans" per your link to the Intercept reporter on Twitter, T.D. Strange.
posted by notyou at 12:02 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Mental Wimp: "But note that the imbalance between R and D non-competitive districts is a direct result of gerrymandering."

To an extent, but a lot of them were VRA districts.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:03 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

World Events happening.
LIVE Updating thread from The Telegraph: North Korea fires ballistic missile that 'may have landed in Japan's exclusive economic zone'

Early reports are that NK has launched a missile that has landed on the far side of Japan, relative to North Korea. The flight time was reported to be 50 minutes, which is suggestive of a functional ICBM.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:04 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Scaramucci resigns from advisory board at Tufts University, but is still threatening to sue the author of a couple of op-eds in the student paper he didn't like.
posted by adamg at 12:14 PM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

Not to worry about North Korea, Rex has got this.

Grauniad: Rex Tillerson said on Tuesday that the Trump administration’s proposal to slash the state department and foreign aid budget is partly based on an expectation it will be able to resolve some of the global conflicts that have been absorbing costly diplomatic and humanitarian support.

"Resolve" is such a wonderfully vague word.
posted by delfin at 12:17 PM on November 28, 2017 [18 favorites]

So what's the plan here? Republicans crash the economy by 3rd Quarter 2018, (2019 at the latest) and then... ????
posted by asteria at 12:18 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

The legislation also would open the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve to oil drilling. Why? Why? Why? Fuck this place.
posted by H. Roark at 12:19 PM on November 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

> Why? Why? Why?

Because they needed Murkowski's vote, and because Murkowski needs to get her constituents to accept this shit sandwich of a tax bill? And because fuck the rest of us and the planet?
posted by Old Kentucky Shark at 12:22 PM on November 28, 2017 [9 favorites]

So what's the plan here? Republicans crash the economy by 3rd Quarter 2018, (2019 at the latest) and then... ????

Point to giant new deficits as the reason that we can't afford Medicare, Social Security or any domestic spending programs at all. This is how they starve government and prevent Democrats from recovering. They're saying it openly.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:23 PM on November 28, 2017 [39 favorites]

Because Murkowski wants the ANWR drilling. "Drilling in ANWR is an issue that's long been near to Murkowski, in part because her father, Frank Murkowski, a former Republican senator and governor, also advocated for drilling but was unsuccessful."

I think the writers are hitting the Daddy-issues trope a little hard in 2017.
posted by gladly at 12:23 PM on November 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

Mod note: Friendly periodic reminder links: if you haven't seen it, check today's Metatalk about changing how these megathreads go, and folks can take more in-the-moment chitchat stuff over to Metafilter Chat, where there are some folks discussing tax bill etc.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:29 PM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

So what's the plan here? Republicans crash the economy by 3rd Quarter 2018, (2019 at the latest) and then... ????

On top of the "kill the poor" stuff that Ryan and his Randian bootlickers are going to do, the most nefarious thing is that the lower and middle classes will see tax cuts until pretty much just after Inauguration Day 2021. That way they can use it as a talking point in the next presidential election and either (1) win it and avoid the consequences until such time that they'll have essentially cemented control over all three branches of the federal government and most of the state governments; or (2) if they lose one or both of the WH and Congress, blame it on the dirty liberal tax-and-spenders and we'll see repeats of the 2010 and 2014 midterms, but with even less protection for voting rights and more redistricting shenanigans.
posted by zombieflanders at 12:34 PM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Why? Why? Why?

Because they're in hock to the Koch brothers, etc. Big donors are putting the arm on all Republican legislators and I don't think anyone is going to stand up to them. It's not even politics, per se - not all of these people are stupid and they must know that this is going to present big, Kansas-style problems for the GOP. But they need the money to run for reelection, and the Kochs, etc, fund all those wingnut welfare think-tanks where most of these people hope to spend their declining years.

Organize, win in 2018, win in 2020, roll this stuff back. It's hard but it's not impossible. Spain came back from Franco. Hell, Germany came back from Hitler. We've beaten worse villains even in this country.
posted by Frowner at 12:37 PM on November 28, 2017 [49 favorites]

Mod note: Sorry, general "why are Repubs evil right now, why would they vote for evil, how could they do this, won't it be bad for them" stuff is so general as to be not worth repeating at this point - she lamented.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:40 PM on November 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

Mike Flynn’s Promotion of Nuclear-Plant Project Went Deep Into the White House
Private-sector backers of a controversial Middle East nuclear plan worked with former national security adviser Mike Flynn to promote it inside the White House, to the point of sending him a draft memo for the president to sign authorizing the project.

Mueller has this dude by the balls. Why would Flynn be this hard up for cash to try this desperate money grab? Did his failson develop an expensive cocaine and doomsday prepper habit?
posted by PenDevil at 12:56 PM on November 28, 2017 [19 favorites]

@ZoeTillman: BREAKING: Judge will not issue an emergency order blocking Trump from installing Mick Mulvaney as acting director of the CFPB. More shortly.

They both showed up to work today.
posted by zachlipton at 1:59 PM on November 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Sen. Warren had good summary on Pod Save America about why Trump & Mulvaney are likely in the wrong on CFPB.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:01 PM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

Worth noting the district judge in the CFPB case is a newly appointed Trump judge.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:11 PM on November 28, 2017 [62 favorites]

Welp, so much for that then. Unless there's some legal case for getting a different judge than the Trump judge?
posted by Artw at 2:17 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Heck-of-a-job FEMA news from AP reporters Tami Abdollah and Michael Biesecker, Newly formed company won $30 million contract to help Puerto Rico, then didn't deliver:

After Hurricane Maria damaged tens of thousands of homes in Puerto Rico, a newly created Florida company with an unproven record won more than $30 million in contracts from the Federal Emergency Management Agency to provide emergency tarps and plastic sheeting for repairs.

Bronze Star LLC never delivered those urgently needed supplies, which even months later remain in demand by hurricane victims on the island.

FEMA eventually terminated the contracts, without paying any money, and re-started the process this month to supply more tarps for the island. The earlier effort took nearly four weeks from the day FEMA awarded the contracts to Bronze Star and the day it canceled them.
...
It is not clear how thoroughly FEMA investigated Bronze Star or its ability to fulfill the contracts. Formed by two brothers in August, Bronze Star had never before won a government contract or delivered tarps or plastic sheeting. The address listed for the business is a single-family home in a residential subdivision in St. Cloud, Florida.

So FEMA wasted more than a month on a couple of chumps who were completely unqualified to deliver supplies to make emergency repairs to people's homes. Also, grifters gonna grift:

"My brother and I, we are both veterans, so we just came up with a name to do business," Kayon Jones said. "We're not saying we have a Bronze Star or anything."

Right, and I just call myself "Doctor" because I like the word, I didn't imply that I have a medical degree or anything.
posted by peeedro at 2:18 PM on November 28, 2017 [50 favorites]

T.D. Strange: "Worth noting the district judge in the CFPB case is a newly appointed Trump judge."

This backgrounder on Judge Kelly seems to show that he's not an obvious clown, at least.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:28 PM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

> Formed by two brothers in August, Bronze Star had never before won a government contract or delivered tarps or plastic sheeting. The address listed for the business is a single-family home in a residential subdivision in St. Cloud, Florida.

I guess some people watched War Dogs as a How-To manual - but that was already based on a true story, so... Lazy writers! Rewrite!
posted by RedOrGreen at 2:28 PM on November 28, 2017

I want to recommend Slate's Trumpcast podcast; at least the one I listened to today was quite good. It was an analysis of the Trumpian aspects of Night Rider, a Robert Penn Warren book (his first) that I'd not heard of. It has to do with tobacco farming and the displacement of small farmers in the south, and how the small farmers turn to violence when they're not able to obtain relief through legal remedies, and the idea that this is an immutable aspect of popular movements. The idea being is that the deplorables are on that slide towards the abyss.

Although with the passing of the tax bill looking more likely, I'm thinking grimly about the potential for such a slide on both sides of the aisle. I don't pretend to get Trump supporters, but I do know that since 11/9 it's felt like somebody has been trying to kick my teeth in, and this time they might succeed, and I mean just because we're leftists doesn't mean we won't eventually bite with whatever teeth aren't lying in shards on the bloody floor.

So, uh, happy fucking Tuesday.
posted by angrycat at 2:31 PM on November 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

My brother and I, we are both veterans, so we just came up with a name to do business," Kayon Jones said. "We're not saying we have a Bronze Star or anything."

Would this potentially go against the provisions of the Stolen Valor Act that were actually found constitutional - the provisions against profiting from fraudulent decorations? It'd be nice to see some of these grifters face consequences, even if it SHOULD be for making people in PR wait even longer for needed supplies.
posted by corb at 2:38 PM on November 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

So FEMA wasted more than a month on a couple of chumps who were completely unqualified to deliver supplies to make emergency repairs to people's homes. Also, grifters gonna grift:

Hearings. We need hearings.
posted by Room 641-A at 3:05 PM on November 28, 2017 [28 favorites]

We have reached a new low in the fight for who runs the CFPB: dueling Twitter handles.

@CFPBDirector belongs to Nick Mulvaney. @DirectorCFPB belongs to Leeandra English. Both appear to be authentic, at least per various reporters.

Presumably this gets settled when Twitter verifies one of them?
posted by zachlipton at 3:10 PM on November 28, 2017 [36 favorites]

I just texted Resistbot and donated. My senators are worthless, but some of y'all might be heartened to see that Beto O'Rourke is now officially on the ballot to challenge Cruz for his Texas senate seat in 2018.

My husband and I together have donated a couple thousand at this point to Beto's campaign. Let's keep the Dem election wave going in 2018, y'all!!!!!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:18 PM on November 28, 2017 [49 favorites]

Postcards to Voters just posted on Facebook that they think it's possible they're going to finish sending postcards to the entire list of registered Democrats in Alabama. Go postcard writers! That's a lot of postcards!
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 3:22 PM on November 28, 2017 [52 favorites]

I assume this is far from the end of the CFPB issue? This was an emergency ruling by a single judge. Next would be a panel of three or en banc, no? It would just be on a longer timeframe.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 3:32 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

National Treasure Alexandra Petri, WaPo: Some top-secret sources I now worry were working for Project Veritas

Oh, Project Veritas. The James O’Keefe-helmed organization, clearly operating on the assumption that all you have to do to be an anonymous source is send a vague email out of the blue and it will appear in print with no questions, appears to have sent a woman to The Post to falsely claim that Roy Moore had impregnated her at 15. But she told an inconsistent story, had not removed the GoFundMe page saying she was headed to New York to take down the liberal MSM and was then spotted walking into the headquarters of Project Veritas. In other words, it did not go as planned.

Still, what a plan! The news side is very clever, but I am only a humor columnist, and sometimes I miss things. Now that I know that such sneaky things are possible, I have gone over my past contacts with a fine-toothed comb, and I am not sure whom I can trust.

• Woman who claimed she could “take down President Trump,” if I just “promised that that was what I was really after,” but all three of her hands were mop handles.
  
  
• Pirate with a peg leg and a strangely motionless shoulder-parrot with a flashing red light coming out of one eye. I asked, “Is that a recording device?” and the pirate said, “In a sense, aren’t ALL parrots recording devices?” but then we made eye contact for too long and he tore off his peg leg and bolted out of the coffee shop.
  
  
• Enormous papier-mache head with a large microphone protruding from one nostril that asked only to be identified as Bill Clinton.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 3:36 PM on November 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

I believe the CFPB ruling was solely not immediately issuing a temporary restraining order?
posted by Chrysostom at 3:41 PM on November 28, 2017

@jenanmoussa: Libyan media is questioning authenticity of CNN's slavery report after tweet by President Trump calling CNN international "a major source of (Fake) news"

@JessicaHuseman: I REPEAT FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME: The presidents tweets have real impact on the world. There are slave auctions happening in Libya, and the president's childish social media antics allow the powerful in Libya an out.
posted by christopherious at 3:45 PM on November 28, 2017 [102 favorites]

Reuters: Hawaii to resume Cold War-era nuclear siren tests amid North Korea threat.
posted by adamg at 3:57 PM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

So, without trying to re-parse all the gobs of text and tea leaves on the tax bill, it's going to pass, isn't it?

I mean, I haven't heard a single Republican Senator offer a credible, firm "No" so far. So it sounds like it's going to pass.

This is really depressing.
posted by darkstar at 4:03 PM on November 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

From what I can see the hope now is that Corker's trigger clause flips the more extreme elements to flip to a NO a la Kennedy who said he'd rather drink weed killer than vote for a trigger and they get hit with the unstoppable force/immovable object dynamic within their own party and the whole thing falls apart under its own weight.
posted by TwoWordReview at 4:08 PM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

Profile of Sean Hannity in NYT magazine.
posted by StrawberryPie at 4:10 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

I assume this is far from the end of the CFPB issue?

This was the very first step in the trial process, the Trumpjudge declined to issue an emergency temporary restraining order, which is an equitable remedy and not generally appealable at this stage, basically saying that this judge didn't see the likelihood of imminent and irreparable harm. The next step will be a full hearing before the same judge on the preliminary injunction, where English/Democrats will have to show likelihood of winning on the underlying legal merits (which would be appealable), then possibly a full trial before a permanent injunction, which would again be appealable. This is a Trumpjudge, so we shouldn't expect any ruling favorable to a Democrat before an appeal, regardless of how many profiles suggest he's reasonable. If he wasn't a Trump apparatchik, he wouldn't have been appointed as Trumpjudge.
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:17 PM on November 28, 2017 [10 favorites]

That's the hope, but Kennedy already started walking back his statements about hating a trigger.

It is notable though that we've heard exactly zero details about how this trigger supposedly works. It's like they've said "here's our tax plan" and now "here's our plan with the numbers all changed and that part could take effect under undefined circumstances," and everyone just nods along without acknowledging that's an entirely different plan.
posted by zachlipton at 4:18 PM on November 28, 2017 [14 favorites]

Profile of Sean Hannity in NYT magazine.

They're really going all in on this Nazi puff piece beat, huh?
posted by leotrotsky at 4:26 PM on November 28, 2017 [28 favorites]

Since Joey Michaels has taken a haitus, I'm going to step in and forward this along that I learned from him in chat, as it seems to me to be a very important mark in where we are as a society. (Also, as adamg has above mentioned the resumption of the attack sirens).

This, from William Cole, of The Honolulu Star-Advertiser: 'Attack' Siren to Sound Friday in Hawaii

On the face, that sounds like what adamg posted above, but it's so much more than that. There's a particularly inhumane bit about the school systems requesting parents create so-called 'Courage Kits' for their kids to bring to school:

A Nov. 9 letter went out to parents of children at Kaelepulu Elementary School in Kailua saying that following guidance from the state Department of Education and Hawaii Emergency Management Agency, the school’s safety committee looked at “emergency lockdown preparedness.”

“The committee has come up with a plan for the unlikely event that would require an ELP of 24-72 hours,” including the creation of a “courage kit” for each student.

Each kit, to be prepared with assistance from parents, was recommended to include a “comfort letter” with photos of family and nonperishable food. In conjunction with those efforts, donations of cases of bottled water, flashlights, batteries, duct tape and Clorox wipes were being sought for “classroom courage kits.”

I hope this has the effect of stirring additional protest against this administration, but I fear that it will cause many people to rally around the admin like they did with the gulf war. War fears are often good for troubled presidents.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:28 PM on November 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

So, who was actually, physically going to do the kidnapping of Gulen? Flynn, jr.?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:49 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

So, without trying to re-parse all the gobs of text and tea leaves on the tax bill, it's going to pass, isn't it?

The WaPo has a running an annotated whip counter. They list Daines and Johnson in the oppose category and this opposition appears to be soft, they are asking for greater cuts on pass-through income (worth noting that both Johnson and Daines have a lot of pass-thru income).

There are 9 republican senators in the "have concerns" category, and 15 more in the "unknown/unclear."
posted by peeedro at 4:52 PM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

cfpb: it depends on what your definition of 'shall' is. fucking bullshit. mefi lawyers, what does 'shall' mean?
posted by j_curiouser at 4:55 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Yesterday's Pod Save America pointed out that there's a lot that still has to happen for this tax plan to become law. After the Senate gets it through committee they need to vote on it, then it goes to conference, then the revised version has to pass both houses, and all this has to happen right at year end with the budget on the table and freshman Senator Doug Jones a real possibility in the near future. It's not looking good, but the fuckers do have some ground to cover.
posted by contraption at 4:59 PM on November 28, 2017 [12 favorites]

WaPo, Conyers faces new pressure to resign after third accuser alleges harassment. He didn't vote tonight and apparently met with members of the Congressional Black Caucus and Pelosi today. He's been spotted on a flight to Detroit tonight, with speculation he's headed home to resign.
posted by zachlipton at 5:00 PM on November 28, 2017 [13 favorites]

mefi lawyers, what does 'shall' mean?

IANAL, but the internet is, and the internet says “shall” correctly means “must.”
posted by Sys Rq at 5:06 PM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

j_curiouser: cfpb: it depends on what your definition of 'shall' is. fucking bullshit. mefi lawyers, what does 'shall' mean?

It varies depending on the usage. It could mean must, should, or may. Who knows? Don't use shall when drafting legal documents!
posted by Arbac at 5:08 PM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

IANAL, but the internet is, and the internet says “shall” correctly means “must.”

The Internet is not unanimous about that. Here's one law professor with a different opinion on the subject: English v. Trump and “Shall” v. “May”.
posted by scalefree at 5:40 PM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

He's been spotted on a flight to Detroit tonight, with speculation he's headed home to resign.

Good. It's a sad end to a impressive career, but that's what you get for being a creep.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:54 PM on November 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

Pai, a Republican commissioner appointed to head the agency by President Trump, specifically called out Twitter for appearing to have a "double standard when it comes to suspending or de-verifying conservative users' accounts as opposed to those of liberal users.

He did not specify which conservative accounts he was referring to. Twitter recently removed the verification from several prominent users, including controversial conservative commentator Laura Loomer and white nationalists like Richard Spencer and Jason Kessler.


Let's ignore the ideological inconsistencies, or the bizarre conflation of net neutrality with content curation (which is an idea that's bubbled up in the last few months in the sort of places that would be talking about burning down the white house if this was two years ago).

Loomer is a white supremacist. The other two are white supremacists/nationalists/(does it really matter?). Is Pai using white supremacists as some sort of... wedge issue?

I'm guessing Pai thinks his wealth would save him if they had their day of glory.

posted by Yowser at 6:16 PM on November 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

Err, I meant the sort of places that would burn down the white house if net neutrality was eliminated. (btw "net neutrality"? bad, confusing name, that one)
posted by Yowser at 6:33 PM on November 28, 2017

T.D. Strange: " If he wasn't a Trump apparatchik, he wouldn't have been appointed as Trumpjudge."

Trump has appointed six Obama judge nominees so far.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:33 PM on November 28, 2017 [5 favorites]

the 'shall and may' link above contains a link to a legal essay supporting english's interpretation. i find it compelling. the fvra was purpose-written to prevent potus from appointing long-serving acting directors - basically as a dodge to avoid senate confirmation. a reading of 'shall' as 'must' aligns fvra and cfpb statutes. good luck with that judge. uggghh.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:36 PM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

In other judicial news, Kennedy says he will vote No on Brett Talley. Talley, you may recall from the last thread, is the deeply unqualified, quite likely racist, nominee for a district judgeship.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:40 PM on November 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

WSJ: Republicans Wrestle With How Tax-Increase ‘Trigger’ Would Work
posted by Chrysostom at 6:42 PM on November 28, 2017 [3 favorites]

I can't believe we have to have a discussion of what "shall" means! The tech community had this figured out a long time ago. I read a lot of technical specs, and most of them have a paragraph like this somewhere near the beginning:

The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and
"OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in
RFC 2119.

If you follow the link, you'll see it goes to a 20 year-old document that spells out in great detail what each of those terms mean. Perhaps I'm just too steeped in industry conventions, but I have a hard time imagining how "shall" could indicate anything but an absolute requirement.
posted by shponglespore at 6:50 PM on November 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

I see Ajit Pai is using Trump's Mirror in his public criticism of Twitter. Too hard on 'conservatives'?!? Expect the Twit-heads to react by letting the Trumpists and Nazis run free and delete anybody who opposes them (as if they weren't doing that before... now just more openly and proudly). Reason #87 to nuke Twitter from orbit.
posted by oneswellfoop at 6:53 PM on November 28, 2017 [4 favorites]

If you follow the link, you'll see it goes to a 20 year-old document that spells out in great detail what each of those terms mean. Perhaps I'm just too steeped in industry conventions, but I have a hard time imagining how "shall" could indicate anything but an absolute requirement.

That's Tech. This is Law. Different domains with different canons, different rules. What holds true in one may not in the other.
posted by scalefree at 7:04 PM on November 28, 2017 [11 favorites]

@shponglespore re: the term "shall."


I'm in tech & I fully agree with you that RFC 2119 is an incredibly useful document. I'd be surprised if official legaleze didn't have a similar set of strict definitions.

I believe the context for the discussion over what "shall" means in this current context is a problem of how to interpret the strict, legal definition of the word "shall" in one law when another law appears to contradict it.

So, in theory, "shall" has a similar, discrete definition a la RFC 2119's definition. However, if we were to interpret this other law's ability to supersede the law in question, effectively, the "shall" would change to be a "may."

The discussion, then, is why they would stipulate "shall" in the first place, if reading the two laws in conjunction renders it, ultimately, to mean "may."

Anyway, I think that's what this is about. @j_curiouser's article helped a lot. Hopefully, someone who is actually a lawyer can/will correct me if/where I'm wrong. :)
posted by narwhal at 7:07 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mueller's Russia Probe May Now Include Flynn's DIA Tenure (Thomas Frank & Jason Leopold, Buzzfeed News)

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn appears to be under investigation for his activities while he ran the Defense Intelligence Agency during the Obama administration, according to a letter the agency sent to BuzzFeed News.

The disclosure suggests that special counsel Robert Mueller is looking more broadly than previously thought at Flynn, whom President Donald Trump fired in February after 24 days as his top security adviser. [...]

Leopold, the reporter, had requested records pertaining to Flynn on May 1, 2014, while Flynn was still in charge of the DIA but a day after the Washington Post reported that he was being forced to retire because of his management style and resistance within the agency to his plans for change.

In denying Leopold’s request, the DIA said its refusal is not necessarily “long-term” and that it will “reassess future requests” for records pertaining to Flynn “at the conclusion of the present investigative activity.” There was no immediate explanation for the delay in responding Leopold's request.

posted by Room 641-A at 7:08 PM on November 28, 2017 [22 favorites]

Oh no.

CNN: North Korea fires missile that shows it can hit 'everywhere in the world' [real, probably most likely inaccurate]

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who sits on the Armed Services Committee, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that, "If we have to go to war to stop this, we will. If there's a war with North Korea it will be because North Korea brought it on itself, and we're headed to a war if things don't change."
posted by porpoise at 7:22 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

ELECTION RESULT

GOP GAIN in Mississippi Senate 10, 55-45.

MS specials are run without party labels, and the winner hasn't technically said he'd caucus with the GOP, but he received party donations, so it's pretty clear.

This is the first GOP gain in a 2017 special.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:25 PM on November 28, 2017 [16 favorites]

WaPo’s current headline/take on today’s NK missile launch is different but also, uh, chilling? Glad there’s a measured, pragmatic, reasonable adult sitting behind the Resolute Desk tonight. :/

North Korea’s latest missile launch appears to put U.S. capital in range
posted by Barack Spinoza at 7:39 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

WSJ: Republicans Wrestle With How Tax-Increase ‘Trigger’ Would Work

In a sane world, this kind of confusion would slow down the vote.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:45 PM on November 28, 2017 [25 favorites]

Grauniad: Rex Tillerson said on Tuesday that the Trump administration’s proposal to slash the state department and foreign aid budget is partly based on an expectation it will be able to resolve some of the global conflicts that have been absorbing costly diplomatic and humanitarian support.

Slate's Fred Kaplan acidly observes, "This may rank as the silliest comment ever made by a Cabinet secretary." Tearing into the Secretary's obfuscations and outright lies, he argues that Rex Tillerson is making a great case for himself as worst secretary of state in modern history

Reporting from the same event, the Washington Post portrays Tillerson as confident in his reorg plan. "But after going through three reorganizations at ExxonMobil — 'I enjoy doing it,' Tillerson said Tuesday — he realized he was uniquely prepared to restructure State for the 21st century." He also defended his department against accusations of dysfunctionality and crippling. ("I can tell you it's functioning very well from my perspective.")

The Onion is somewhat more sympathetic to Tillerson's position: "You Know, Now That I Think About It, Settling Diplomatic Disputes Between Traditionally Hostile Ethnic Groups Is Nothing Like Drilling For Oil"
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:53 PM on November 28, 2017 [37 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: Just won the lawsuit on leadership of Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, CFPB. A big win for the Consumer!
posted by christopherious at 7:59 PM on November 28, 2017

> @realDonaldTrump: Just won the lawsuit on leadership of Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, CFPB. A big win for the Consumer!

Say what now?

Is there some new development, or is he taking the non-issue of a preliminary injunction as an actual win of a lawsuit? Because that's not how this works! THAT'S NOT HOW ANY OF THIS WORKS!
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:13 PM on November 28, 2017 [40 favorites]

I don't understand how none of the national media is making the Tillerson-Putin-Trump connection, because it's fucking obvious. Everything Tillerson is doing is to the benefit of Russia. Every job cut at State is a 1 for 1 trade off in favor of the KGB. Destruction of State is the payoff for 2016, and Tillerson is delivering. It's not mismanagement, or incompetence, or inexperience, or ideological difference, or anything else but obvious treason.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:45 PM on November 28, 2017 [63 favorites]

Is there some new development, or is he taking the non-issue of a preliminary injunction as an actual win of a lawsuit?

It was a restraining order; preliminary injunction would be a next step. "“Everyone understands this court is not the final stop,” Mr. Gupta said. “This judge does not have the final word in what happens in this controversy, and I think he understands that.”"

The judge may understand that. The President, apparently, does not.

Then again, turnover is so fast under Trump that Mulvaney could well resign before things are actually settled, I guess, so
posted by halation at 8:56 PM on November 28, 2017 [7 favorites]

The Nation: The Christian Legal Army Behind 'Masterpiece Cakeshop': A special investigation into the rise of Alliance Defending Freedom

Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) [has] mushroomed over the past few years into a Christian-right powerhouse. Founded 24 years ago because, as its longtime president Alan Sears once put it, “the homosexual agenda threatens religious freedom,” ADF now rivals some of the nation’s top private law firms in Supreme Court activity. It has trained thousands of lawyers, many of whom have gone on to government service at the federal, state, and local levels. The organization has helped shape “religious freedom” legislation; provides grants to other Christian-right organizations; and presses school districts to adopt its model policies on issues like transgender facility access. ADF now exerts far more influence than other legal organizations that litigate religious-freedom cases, such as the American Center for Law and Justice, the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, and Liberty Counsel. As the courts have ruled in favor of marriage equality over the past decade, ADF has positioned itself at the very center of the efforts to curtail LGBTQ rights under the guise of religious freedom. [...]

At the core of Masterpiece Cakeshop is a radically revisionist idea: that laws protecting the civil rights of historically marginalized groups can violate the free-speech rights of the people who refuse to serve them. Although ADF has also charged that the Colorado law violates Phillips’s right to the free exercise of religion, a shadow looms over that claim, cast by the Supreme Court’s 1968 decision in Newman v. Piggie Park. There, the owner of a South Carolina barbecue chain claimed that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 “contravene[d] the will of God” and infringed on his right to the free exercise of religion, because his beliefs “compel him to oppose any integration of the races.” The Supreme Court rejected these claims as “patently frivolous.” Notably, ADF has put its free-speech claim, rather than the free-exercise-of-religion claim, front and center in its brief, casting Phillips as an artist whose freedom of expression has been violated.

posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:00 PM on November 28, 2017 [24 favorites]

Paul Farsi, WaPo: CNN disinvites itself from annual White House holiday party for the press

President Trump and first lady Melania Trump will host the party as usual on Friday, but it won’t be the usual party.

CNN, which the president criticized repeatedly and sharply on Monday, said Tuesday it won’t attend. “In light of the President’s continued attacks on freedom of the press and CNN, we do not feel it is appropriate to celebrate with him as his invited guests,” a spokesman said. Instead, the network will cover the event as a news story and report on it “if news warrants.”

In response to CNN’s decision, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders offered a taunting tweet: “Christmas comes early! Finally, good news from @CNN.”

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:21 PM on November 28, 2017 [20 favorites]

It'd be nice if some other news organizations supported CNN in that decision. But maybe they don't want to be left out of Trump's competition for the fake news trophy.
posted by perhapses at 9:27 PM on November 28, 2017 [28 favorites]

A WaPo story has more on Trump pretending that the Access Hollywood tape is fake, From ‘Access Hollywood’ to Russia, Trump seeks to paint the rosiest picture:

Trump has occasionally told senior advisers that the “Access Hollywood” tape could be fabricated or may not be real, according to two people who have heard him make the comments. At various moments — including during huddles with his aides at Trump Tower after he won the election and before taking office — Trump has sought to distance himself from the tape.

Trump has asked others whether they think the voice sounds like him, suggesting that it does not, and has wondered aloud whether perhaps the tape was doctored or edited in an unfair way to villainize him.

“He would just assert it, and people would kind of say, ‘Okay, let’s move along,’ ” said one person who had heard the comments. “There’s no point in sitting there and litigating it with him.”

A second person who has discussed the tape with Trump recalled, “He says: ‘It’s really not me. I don’t talk like that.’ ”

posted by peeedro at 9:45 PM on November 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

He lies blatantly about everything else; why should that be any different?
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:51 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Like a ....PEE TAPE?!?!

(Sorry, mods, I can't help it. I have to go there.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:29 PM on November 28, 2017 [1 favorite]

He's worried about something.

Or the stress of the White House is accelerating his early onset dementia.
posted by PenDevil at 10:29 PM on November 28, 2017 [6 favorites]

>A WaPo story has more on Trump pretending that the Access Hollywood tape is fake: From ‘Access Hollywood’ to Russia, Trump seeks to paint the rosiest picture

NYT weighs in: Trump Once Said the ‘Access Hollywood’ Tape Was Real. Now He’s Not Sure.

Mr. Trump’s falsehoods about the “Access Hollywood” tape are part of his lifelong habit of attempting to create and sell his own version of reality. Advisers say he continues to privately harbor a handful of conspiracy theories that have no grounding in fact.

Just the steady hand we need on the tiller as we navigate a turbulent time.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:38 PM on November 28, 2017 [15 favorites]

Unusual. I thought it was the nytimes's practice to not state when Trump is obviously lying, because of reasons.

Never mind that he became President through a sustained program of lying about Obama's heritage, and also lying about just about everything else.
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:53 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump Once Said the ‘Access Hollywood’ Tape Was Real. Now He’s Not Sure.
NOT SURE? At least the title is consistent with the NYT not stating when he's lying.

But he probably realizes that he has dozens of victims who haven't come forward yet and he's just trying to pre-muddy the waters.
posted by oneswellfoop at 10:58 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

If you read on in the NYT article, you'll see that the sustained program of lying about Obama's heritage continues even now:

In recent months, they say, Mr. Trump has used closed-door conversations to question the authenticity of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. He has also repeatedly claimed that he lost the popular vote last year because of widespread voter fraud, according to advisers and lawmakers.

One senator who listened as the president revived his doubts about Mr. Obama’s birth certificate chuckled on Tuesday as recalled the conversation. The president, he said, has had a hard time letting go of his claim that Mr. Obama was not born in the United States. The senator asked not to be named to discuss private conversations.

Mr. Trump’s journeys into the realm of manufactured facts have been frequent enough that his own staff has sought to nudge friendly lawmakers to ask questions of Mr. Trump in meetings that will steer him toward safer terrain.

I want to know what Senator Chucklehead thinks is so funny about the fact that the President of the United States peddles racist conspiracy theories.
posted by zachlipton at 11:02 PM on November 28, 2017 [70 favorites]

: "Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who sits on the Armed Services Committee, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer that, "If we have to go to war to stop this, we will. If there's a war with North Korea it will be because North Korea brought it on itself, and we're headed to a war if things don't change." "

The "good" news is this is unlikely to be a long, drawn out affair because the people in control care neither for the lives of Koreans nor the infrastructure of the peninsula. This will allow them to carpet bomb to rubble the part of the country that isn't already obliterated by artillery and then withdraw with a Mission Accomplished banner at Mar-a-Lago.

At least it's pretty unlikely to garner any coalition partners; America will be going alone. Firmly cementing their rogue state status.
posted by Mitheral at 11:46 PM on November 28, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump Once Said the ‘Access Hollywood’ Tape Was Real. Now He’s Not Sure.

Clearly, news outlets need to play it over and over so we can look more closely and see if we see flaws. Also, a full scientific investigation should check the tape (and all related tape shot during Trump's visit) for authenticity, and broadcast all the other bits too.
posted by msalt at 12:04 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

New York Magazine has a slightly different (even more worrying)? spin on those reports about Trump: New Reports Suggest Trump Might Not Be a Liar at All, But Truly Delusional.

The prevailing interpretation of Donald Trump, shared by all his enemies and many of his allies, is that he is a con man. It is a theory that explains both his career in business and politics, and has carried through his many reversals of position and acts of fraud against customers and contractors. It remains quite plausible. But new reporting has opened up a second possibility: The president has lost all touch with reality.

The Washington Post and New York Times have accounts from insiders suggesting Trump habitually insists upon the impossible in private. He does not merely tell lies in order to gull the public, or to manipulate allies. He tells lies in private that he has no reason to tell. He still questions the authenticity of Barack Obama’s birth, despite the birth certificate. He insists voter fraud may have denied him a popular vote triumph. He tells people Robert Mueller will wrap up his investigation, with a total vindication of the president, by the end of the year.

posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:21 AM on November 29, 2017 [71 favorites]

He tells lies in private that he has no reason to tell.

Well, yeah. He's a deeply unwell narcissist and is compelled to constantly insist on a version of reality that doesn't conflict with "I am the greatest and can never fail." This is all totally consistent with everything we've seen and heard from him. I don't really care what's in his private mind, because the damage is similar no matter what, but I do think he sort of believes it when he insists on impossible, blatantly wrong stuff like this. "Sort of believes" in that reality and truth don't mean anything to him. He only cares about feeling vindicated and powerful and dominant and lauded, and he'll say and even believe whatever it takes to get that feeling.
posted by aka burlap at 1:17 AM on November 29, 2017 [38 favorites]

The "good" news is this is unlikely to be a long, drawn out affair because the people in control care neither for the lives of Koreans nor the infrastructure of the peninsula.

Please tell me this is not a common belief. A US carpet-bombing campaign would not be a drawn out war? What about the reactions of China and South Korea? You don't think the Koreans will consider reunification (either forced or popular uprising)? You don't think China or Russia will be upset with US actions? Are the examples of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya not enough to say that a forced elimination of autocratic rulers doesn't end peacefully or quickly?
posted by GhostintheMachine at 3:12 AM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Did this come up yet, re: Trump/Pocahontas?

There is an actual descendant of Pocahontas, Senator Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), serving in the US Senate right now.

G-ddamned 2017 writers. Seriously?
posted by mikelieman at 3:25 AM on November 29, 2017 [47 favorites]

Mod note: One deleted. As per recent discussion, instead of a fast jokey thing linking to a tweet about Trump's “Muslim migrant” retweet, some explanation and a link to an article with context and more info would be better. Thanks all.
posted by taz (staff) at 4:29 AM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Grauniad: "US president’s feed shares tweets from Britain First deputy Jayda Fransen, who has been convicted for religious crime."

One purported to show a group of Muslims pushing a boy off a roof. Another claimed to show a Muslim destroying a statue of the Virgin Mary and another showed immigrants hitting a Dutch boy on crutches.

Fransen is, of course, 'DELIGHTED'.
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:36 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Because Murkowski wants the ANWR drilling. "Drilling in ANWR is an issue that's long been near to Murkowski, in part because her father, Frank Murkowski, a former Republican senator and governor, also advocated for drilling but was unsuccessful."

Or is it because Alaska'soil extraction taxes kick into the Alaska Permanent Fund, a nice vehicle for writing direct checks to Alaskans, which is political gold?
posted by srboisvert at 4:42 AM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

Just to tell you how fucking insane it is that Trump retweeted those anti-Muslim tweets, this is from Alex Jones' crazy racist/islamophobic righthand man at InfoWars. Even fucking Nazis think it was stupid.


@PrisonPlanet (Paul Joseph Watson)
Yeah, someone might want to tell whoever is running Trump's Twitter account this morning that retweeting Britain First is not great optics. 🤔
posted by chris24 at 5:16 AM on November 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

As above, Trump retweeted three anti-Muslim videos from the deputy leader of Britain First.

For context, Britain First is most well known in the UK for being associated with Thomas Mair, who assassinated Jo Cox last year during the Brexit campaign (the first murder of a sitting MP in 26 years) and was widely reported as having shouted “Britain First” repeatedly while doing so.

Looking up links for this comment, I see that the organisation has been careful to deny any links to him (under threat of being banned). However, I think that their record speaks for itself.

(They are extreme right Christian racists who focus on attacking immigration, and especially on anti-Muslim racism / they are neo-fascists / they are Nazis); depending on your prefered terminology.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 5:22 AM on November 29, 2017 [42 favorites]

I think it appropriate to note in this thread that the President* has now retweeted three utterly ghastly videos, each of an inflammatory nature, each clearly framed to cast "muslims" as inhuman monsters. The first "VIDEO: Muslim migrant beats up Dutch boy on crutches!". No further context provided. The second "VIDEO: Muslim Destroys a Statue of Virgin Mary!". No further context provided. The third: "VIDEO: Islamist mob pushes teenage boy off roof and beats him to death!". Once more, without context. We see a scene of unrest. Who is involved, where it is, what happens is all unclear. But the message that Muslims are inhuman is screaming.

This is the very worst I have seen from the thumb of trump. As noted above, the source is no better.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:36 AM on November 29, 2017 [52 favorites]

Mark Halperin, Glenn Thrush, Leon Wieseltier, Matt Taibbi, Hamilton Fish, Charlie Rose, Jordan Chariton, Sam Kriss, and now Matt Lauer. Sure seems a lot of media people who had issues with Clinton have issues with women.

And this doesn't even count those on the right or allies like Bill O'Reilly, Roger Ailes, Eric Bolling, and Julian Assange.


@SarahLerner
Oh look, another man accused of sexual harassment was someone who played a pivotal role in the 2016 election narrative:

The Today show co-anchor sat down with Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump for 30 minutes each on Wednesday, and many people felt Lauer went after Clinton while allowing Trump to go unchallenged. The critics of Lauer let their opinions be known across the media and Twitter.

Lauer repeatedly questioned Clinton for her lack of transparency regarding her use of a personal email account while she was secretary of state, but allowed to Trump to say he was against the Iraq War, which is a lie he repeats seemingly every chance he gets.

Lauer was also accused of not thoroughly challenging Trump to explain why the candidate is ready to be commander in chief, for not following up where appropriate, and for asking tough questions of Clinton while throwing softies to Trump.

posted by chris24 at 5:37 AM on November 29, 2017 [88 favorites]

Erik Voeten: That video @realDonaldTrump retweets of a Muslim boy beating up a Dutch boy turns out to be a video of a Dutch boy with dark hair beating up a Dutch boy with blond hair.
posted by PenDevil at 5:40 AM on November 29, 2017 [51 favorites]

I don't understand how none of the national media is making the Tillerson-Putin-Trump connection, because it's fucking obvious. Everything Tillerson is doing is to the benefit of Russia. Every job cut at State is a 1 for 1 trade off in favor of the KGB. Destruction of State is the payoff for 2016, and Tillerson is delivering. It's not mismanagement, or incompetence, or inexperience, or ideological difference, or anything else but obvious treason.

That isn't clear to me. It's clear that Tillerson doesn't trust folks at the State Department (possibly because he's had conflicts with them while he was at Exxon), and doesn't either believe or understand the purpose of the State Department. It's also clear that Tillerson, while at Exxon, developed good working relationships with the leaders of oil-rich countries. I can easily believe that someone who's never served in the government, is keen on cost-cutting, and is an arrogant SOB who doesn't listen can incompetently fuck up his own department without any help from Putin. But it isn't clear to me (yet) that he's a traitor.

Condoleezza Rice, Robert Gates, and Stephen Hadley (NSC under W.) all suggested Tillerson. Are we to assume they're Russian plants as well?

There's PLENTY of complicit folks in the Trump administration. We don't need to see Russians under every fuck-up. Republicans have managed to screw things up for years without any help from Russia.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:03 AM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Trump tweets are not being received well in the UK. From a couple members of Parliament:

@YvetteCooperMP
Cdnt have imagined there was anything left Trump could do to shock me. But promoting views of woman convicted of hate crime from far right hate group is appalling. UK Gov't must condemn

@DavidLammy
Trump sharing Britain First. Let that sink in. The President of the United States is promoting a fascist, racist, extremist hate group whose leaders have been arrested and convicted. He is no ally or friend of ours. @realDonaldTrump you are not welcome in my country and my city.


And Jo Cox's husband.

@MrBrendanCox
Trump has legitimised the far right in his own country, now he’s trying to do it in ours. Spreading hatred has consequences & the President should be ashamed of himself.

@MarinaHyde (Guardian columnist)
Retweeted Brendan Cox
Disgraceful and tragic that a man whose wife's murder was preceded by repeated shouts of "Britain First" should have to point this out. Solidarity with the Coxes; shame upon shame for Trump


Even too much for fucking Piers Morgan.

@piersmorgan
Good morning, Mr President @realDonaldTrump - what the hell are you doing retweeting a bunch of unverified videos by Britain First, a bunch of disgustingly racist far-right extremists? Please STOP this madness & undo your retweets.
posted by chris24 at 6:05 AM on November 29, 2017 [82 favorites]

someone who's never served in the government, is keen on cost-cutting, and is an arrogant SOB who doesn't listen

These are all very valid descriptors, which makes me wonder why Condoleezza Rice, Robert Gates, and Stephen Hadley suggested Tillerson. Putting Exxon in charge of the State Department was never going to go well.
posted by halation at 6:11 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

And some details on how Trump found the tweets.

1) Ann Coulter, who Trump follows, retweets the one with the kid on crutches getting beat up.

2) Trump sees it in his timeline and retweets it.

3) Likes it enough to click to go to the tweets of the original poster.

4) Scrolls though the many vile racist tweets - including one titled "The Media was the Jews first weapon against Islam" - and retweets two more that are further down the timeline.
posted by chris24 at 6:21 AM on November 29, 2017 [59 favorites]

Some closure, literally, from Chuck Jones, president of United Steelworkers 1999, A year ago, Trump promised Carrier workers help. We’re still waiting (WaPo):

I have been a worker at the Rexnord plant in Indianapolis for 48 years, and president of United Steel Workers Local 1999 for more than 30. As the leader of the union representing the Carrier workers, I was part of the negotiations with the company regarding the coming layoffs when Trump intervened. Standing in front of the president-elect at Carrier during Trump’s first victory rally after the 2016 election, I realized that he was delivering a powerful message of hope not only to Carrier workers, but also to all working people in America: You finally have a president who will fight for the interests of ordinary workers, Trump seemed to say.

A year later, we feel betrayed. Carrier has announced that more than 600 workers are being laid off, with the last line scheduled to work their final shift right after the holidays.

posted by peeedro at 6:22 AM on November 29, 2017 [43 favorites]

The FBI has prosecuted terrorism cases where retweeting extremist propaganda formed the basis of a charge of material support of terrorism.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:26 AM on November 29, 2017 [65 favorites]

Looking back over 2017, I think the part that is most surprising to me is the incompetence of the Republican Party.

I'd always been deeply opposed to their politics, and never really thought highly of the intellectual integrity or willingness to examine their beliefs of the Republican voters. But given the enormous success of their gerrymandering program, project REDSTATE, and their clever (if highly immoral and utterly vile) use of Senate procedure to deny Obama the chance to appoint judges (and a Supreme Court Justice) I'd assumed a certain degree of competence on the part of the leadership.

And yet, we've seen that the Republican Party competence is a mixed bag to say the very least. They're undeniably good at gerrymandering, voter suppression, and stacking the Judicial branch in their favor, but they seem strangely (to me) incompetent at most other things, including things you'd imagine they'd be good at.

I get how they didn't have an ACA replacement ready to roll out. There really isn't a more conservative way to achieve the goal of universal coverage, and overtly abandoning that goal would hurt them, so they were stuck. Railing against the ACA played well, but the "replace" part of "repeal and replace" never did have a chance of being anything but a shitfest.

What I don't get is how they didn't have a tax bill ready to go, and the bizarre, silly, incompetent mess they're making of what should be right up their street.

You can't even claim they didn't have time to do more than pie in the sky fantasy because they didn't expect Trump to win in 2016. They've had a full year now and any halfway competent group would have at the very least had a team working on the tax bill while the actual Congresspeople and Senators did their clown car BS over the ACA repeal.

It isn't as if the Republican Party is short on either money or peoplepower. The fact that apparently McConnel and Ryan hadn't put together a team that was negotiating and working out a bill that'd appeal to all Congressional Republicans seems so unlikely I'm still having a difficult time believing it apparently didn't happen.

I'm not disappointed, I'm pretty happy that the Republicans are apparently not only evil but also utterly incompetent and unable to plan even a week in advance, but I'm very, very, confused.

Does anyone know of any insider accounts I should look at for WTF happened, or have they not been published yet? Because seriously, you'd think on Nov 8 2016 McConnell would have told his chief of staff (or whatever his major domo is officially called) to get a team of Republican tax experts to start drafting a bill that'd pass with their expected membership and to coordinate with Ryan's team on the same. Yet apparently that didn't happen and I'm baffled as to why.

I get why they're trying to ram the bill through with such unseemly speed, they're desperate for a win going into the 2018 election season, I'm just confused as to why they didn't have a bill ready to roll that had been bounced off every Republican in Congress and had had the bugs ironed out months ago.
posted by sotonohito at 6:26 AM on November 29, 2017 [32 favorites]

As a reminder, it's way more than the ban.

@ddale8
Trump has been an open anti-Muslim bigot since the beginning of the campaign. He has uttered or shared at least six separate fake stories about Muslims.

Trump has:
- Made up fake story about Muslims not reporting San Bernardino killers
- Made up fake story about Pershing massacre with bullets dipped in pig blood
- Made up fake stories about refugees being ISIS
- Made up fake story about a terror attack “last night in Sweden”
- Falsely claimed botched Manila robbery was terror attack
- Now shared fake video of not-Muslim hurting Dutch kid

I somehow forgot one of the worst ones. Make it seven: @Mister_Fun_Guy: Don’t forget all the cheering muslims in NJ after 9/11. He still stands by that story.

Eight: @sguglie2: Ghazala Khan not being allowed to speak
posted by chris24 at 6:34 AM on November 29, 2017 [75 favorites]

I'm just confused as to why they didn't have a bill ready to roll that had been bounced off every Republican in Congress and had had the bugs ironed out months ago.

There may be no such bill possible. There's probably no point in policy space that sufficiently appeals to centrist Republicans and the extremists that they would all vote for it. The only way to successfully pass a bill is through a cloud of FUD that allows the centrists to delude themselves or their constituents into believing this bill is consistent with their principles and positions. With more time, their support for it would become politically unsustainable, so the only way to get anything passed is this last minute hustle. The strategy pretty much worked for ACA (just one quasi-random vote shy) and is close to working now.
posted by chortly at 6:48 AM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

He's totally fucking unhinged today, even for him. Now he's saying Joe Scarborough is a murderer, an absolutely false and bizarre conspiracy theory that's been completely debunked.

@realDonaldTrump
So now that Matt Lauer is gone when will the Fake News practitioners at NBC be terminating the contract of Phil Griffin? And will they terminate low ratings Joe Scarborough based on the “unsolved mystery” that took place in Florida years ago? Investigate!

@ddale8
The president brings up the incident in which a woman was found dead in Scarborough’s district office in 2001. Authorities said immediately that it was a non-suspicious death; medical examiner said she had an undiagnosed heart condition.
- Here's what the local medical examiner said in 2001 about the death the president is calling on people to investigate: SCREENSHOT
- And here's what Scarborogh himself said about this in 2005 - apparently this accusation was pushed by none other than Michael Moore: SCREENSHOT

@jaketapper
This is the president attempting to exploit the tragic death of a young woman — one who had heart problems and hit her head when she fell — to score a cheap spurious political point. Indecent. Inhumane.

@HeerJeet
President of the United States suggesting that TV news host is a murderer. Good times.
posted by chris24 at 6:52 AM on November 29, 2017 [74 favorites]

Problem with the GOP currently is that there are two core groups, both with enormous power: There's the old line ratfuckers who know full well that their ratfuckery is all pretend nonsense to rile up the dumbasses in the base, and then there's the more recently-elected Teahadists who got high on their own supply and are legitimately bonkers. Chortly is right that the only way they can play like they are all on the same team is through a cloud of procedural mumbo-jumbo where everyone can just go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about what's actually in the bill.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:54 AM on November 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

Eight: @sguglie2: Ghazala Khan not being allowed to speak

Nine: by endorsing Roy Moore, tacitly agreeing that Muslims shouldn't serve in Congress.
posted by Room 641-A at 7:06 AM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

And he doesn't even give the slightest shit about "Muslims." Couldn't tell you one factual thing about the religion or the people. It's just a word that gets attention for him. This mediocre man is running on deranged fumes.
posted by thebrokedown at 7:13 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

I recently browsed through some same-time-last-year posts and note how afraid so many of us were, that Trump and the Republicans were actually going to establish martial law, imprison Democratic leaders, and so on. Our poor mods had to wade through a metric shit-ton of dystopian fanfic. We were all shell-shocked and afraid - many (not-white, not-cis, etc.) folks for good reason.

So I think it's a good thing that the Republicans are mostly bumbling, fumbling, and stumbling. Whatever their nefarious plans might be, they seem incapable of implementing most of them. The Democratic resistance is smarter and savvier. I think that will ultimately save us (or mostly save us). There are right-wing teaparty types who only get their news from Breitbart and the like. Even the most magenta-pink of pinko socialists usually read a mainstream news source (CNN, Washington Post, New Yorker, etc.) besides Daily Kos and Jacobin. Democrats are not siloed like Republicans are.

I think a lot of "moderate" Republicans have become Democrats over the past 20 years or so. My own, liberal Democrat, Representative used to be a Republican back in the 80's! I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it on Wikipedia.

The Republicans seem to have gotten high off their own supply, as soren_lorensen put it. They are surrendering to the Breitbart/Alex Jones wing of the party, and - well - there's a reason that all kinds of scammers advertise there. RWNJ are easy to fleece. I don't think that the teahadist base could prop them up for as long as they have without the bottomless wells of Mercer and Koch money.

And there's the rub - that endless infusion of "wingnut welfare." I don't share the pessimism of many people - we've come back from bad stuff in our past, we've come back from an actual civil war! - but that damn RWNJ money is one of our biggest stumbling blocks and it's not as easily solved as, for instance, electing Democratic state governors who can make an end run around Trump and Co. with clean energy and climate science. That said - they have money but we have the brains of the outfit.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 7:17 AM on November 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

They're undeniably good at gerrymandering, voter suppression, and stacking the Judicial branch in their favor, but they seem strangely (to me) incompetent at most other things, including things you'd imagine they'd be good at.

They are good at things they can outsource to high-paid consultants. That does not include effective governance.
posted by C'est la D.C. at 7:17 AM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

WDWBlog is reporting that the Hall of Presidents at Disney World will be reopening before Christmas, including Trump. But they're basing it around statements made back in June (when they were still unable to get Trump to commit to record anything for his animatronic to say), so I'm not sure if it's actually happening.
posted by Mchelly at 7:19 AM on November 29, 2017

" you'd think on Nov 8 2016 McConnell would have told his chief of staff (or whatever his major domo is officially called) to get a team of Republican tax experts to start drafting a bill that'd pass with their expected membership and to coordinate with Ryan's team on the same. Yet apparently that didn't happen and I'm baffled as to why."

Two other reasons: 1) they've stripped committees of their traditional policy-making power, preferring to hand down all legislation from the leadership, instead of shepherding it up from the committees, which is an inherently less participatory process with a lot less buy-in from individual members.

2) Republicans have utterly annihilated Congressional staffing levels and they don't have any teams that can write legislation. Legislation now gets written by lobbyists, who provide the "expertise" to legislate and who provide pre-baked talking points to Congressional offices. The decline of Congressional staffing levels has led to a dramatic decline in the quality of legislation, the subject-matter expertise of Congressmen, and the ability of Congress to wrestle with complex issues and their effects -- but they recite store-bought corporate talking points, which makes lobbyists and donors happy. But lobbyists' incentives aren't aligned with Congress's incentives, so you end up with trashfires like Repeal-and-Replace and this tax bill. Lobbyists ask for the moon; Congressmen are supposed to sort out what's realistic and to balance all the competing objectives. But instead we have a Congress completely captured by corporate lobbyists, who continue to ask for the moon, and Congress, with no ability to research the issues on its own and driven entirely by corporate cash, promises the moon, and then is shocked to discover that it's far away, big, has no air on it, and it's simply not plausible to deliver it in a nicely-wrapped box like they promised.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:20 AM on November 29, 2017 [96 favorites]

aka burlap: Well, yeah. He's a deeply unwell narcissist and is compelled to constantly insist on a version of reality that doesn't conflict with "I am the greatest and can never fail."

Well, for the first months of his administration, stroking his ego was part of managing him. Trump gets a folder full of positive news about himself twice a day -- It’s known as the “propaganda document” (Alex Thompson for Vice News, Aug 9, 2017)

Twice a day since the beginning of the Trump administration, a special folder is prepared for the president. The first document is prepared around 9:30 a.m. and the follow-up, around 4:30 p.m. Former Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and former Press Secretary Sean Spicer both wanted the privilege of delivering the 20-to-25-page packet to President Trump personally, White House sources say.

These sensitive papers, described to VICE News by three current and former White House officials, don’t contain top-secret intelligence or updates on legislative initiatives. Instead, the folders are filled with screenshots of positive cable news chyrons (those lower-third headlines and crawls), admiring tweets, transcripts of fawning TV interviews, praise-filled news stories, and sometimes just pictures of Trump on TV looking powerful.

He's a bully of a man-child who throws tantrums when he doesn't get his way, and those who support him do so for personal gain, not the improvement of anything else, like the country, for instance.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:26 AM on November 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

The confirmation hearing for Alex Azar to HHS is going on now
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:32 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

2) Republicans have utterly annihilated Congressional staffing levels and they don't have any teams that can write legislation.

This. They've been self-lobotomizing since Gingrich.

A quick refresher: In 1995, after winning a majority in the House for the first time in forty years, one of the first things the new Republican House leadership did was gut Congress’s workforce. They cut the “professional staff” (the lawyers, economists, and investigators who work for committees rather than individual members) by a third. They reduced the “legislative support staff” (the auditors, analysts, and subject-matter experts at the Government Accountability Office [GAO], the Congressional Research Service [CRS], and so on) by a third, too, and killed off the Office of Technology Assessment (OTA) entirely. And they fundamentally dismantled the old committee structure, centralizing power in the House speaker’s office and discouraging members and their staff from performing their own policy research. (The Republicans who took over the Senate in 1995 were less draconian, cutting committee staff by about 16 percent and leaving the committee system largely in place.) Today, the GAO and the CRS, which serve both House and Senate, are each operating at about 80 percent of their 1979 capacity. While Senate committee staffs have rebounded somewhat under Democratic control, every single House standing committee had fewer staffers in 2009 than in 1994. Since 2011, with a Tea Party-radicalized GOP back in control of the House, Congress has cut its budget by a whopping 20 percent, a far higher ratio than any other federal agency, leading, predictably, to staff layoffs, hiring and salary freezes, and drooping morale.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:43 AM on November 29, 2017 [52 favorites]

What Soren and Eyebrows said above, plus:

1) The disconnect between the House and Senate. The Senate is tilted towards the conservatives, but _for now_ the combination of some slightly reasonable GOPers, the filibuster, the Byrd bath, and McConnell's like of those established norms that directly benefit him give it a different dynamic from the House, in which the bomb-throwers wield more influence. What each house desires and can pass rarely match up.

2) The knowledge that what hardcore conservatives want will fuck much of the country sideways, and neither Ryan nor Turtle wants to own the blame for that. The hot-potato health care debacle was the perfect demonstration of that. "You write it." "No, you write it." "Look, let's just pass an empty shell and let conference figure it out."

3) Their media streams howling endlessly that cooperation with Democrats, anything less than total victory, or even acknowledging that Democrats are _actual legitimate elected officials_ who should be allowed into the building is unacceptable.

So they're on their own, given marching orders that are self-destructive, and badly mismatched.
posted by delfin at 7:45 AM on November 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

Nine Things We Learned on Tuesday About the Next Fed Chairman (John Cassidy for The New Yorker, November 28, 2017)

... Jerome Powell, the White House’s nominee to replace Janet Yellen as chair of the Federal Reserve, testified for more than two hours before the Senate Banking Committee on Tuesday morning. The hearing didn’t create many headlines. But the role that Powell is about to take on is a vitally important one, and he’s largely unknown outside the Fed, where he has served as a member of the board of governors since 2012. So, what did we learn about him from the hearing? Nine points stood out:

1. He’s a cool customer. A former lawyer, investment banker, and Treasury official, Powell looks like Central Casting’s idea of a banker—sixty-four years old, with a lined forehead and carefully combed gray hair. (Some observers suspect that Trump picked him because he looked the part.)

2. He’s keen to avoid being seen as a Trump stooge. In his opening statement, Powell said he would do everything he could to preserve the Fed’s “independent and nonpartisan status.”

3. Powell is also staying carefully away from partisan land mines. Throughout the hearing, senators from both parties pressed Powell for his views on the Republican tax bill. Smoothly evasive, he repeatedly said that fiscal policy wasn’t in the Fed’s “lane.” At one point he told Senator Bob Menendez, a New Jersey Democrat, that the Fed doesn’t even have “a model of the effects of these cuts,” which wasn’t strictly accurate. (The Fed’s macroeconomic model of the U.S. economy can be used to gauge the impact of tax cuts.)

4. He seems like a fiscal moderate. Although Powell wouldn’t be drawn into judging the Republican tax plan, he did express some concerns about rising public debts. “Like all of us, I’m concerned about the sustainability of our fiscal path in the long run,” he told Menendez.

5. He seems certain to follow Yellen’s lead, which means that the Fed’s current policy of slowly raising interest rates will continue. In his opening statement, Powell said that he would “strive, along with my colleagues, to support the economy’s continued progress toward full recovery. Our aim is to sustain a strong jobs market with inflation moving gradually up toward our target.” The citing of jobs before inflation echoed Yellen’s emphasis, although it was also consistent with the Fed’s dual legal mandate of insuring price stability and maximum employment.

6. The biggest difference between Yellen and Powell’s approaches might be their respective attitudes toward financial regulation. In his testimony, Powell defended the over-all approach that was adopted after the great financial crisis of 2008–09, which involved forcing banks to hold more capital and liquidity, to take regular stress tests, and to construct “living wills” that would supposedly enable them to be wound down, rather than bailed out, in the next crisis. But Powell also said that the Fed should take a “fresh look” at some of the rules and see if any of them were too costly or burdensome.

7. He could well approve a weakening of the Volcker Rule (part of the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act), which was designed to prevent the trading departments of big banks from speculating on their own accounts—an activity known as proprietary trading. During a slightly testy exchange with Senator Elizabeth Warren, the Democrat from Massachusetts, Powell said, straight out, “I do support a rewrite of the Volcker Rule.” Warren asked whether that meant he approved of more proprietary trading. Powell didn’t answer directly. Instead, he said he was in favor of “tailoring the application” of the rule. This was the sort of language that Wall Street wanted to hear.

8. He thinks “Too Big to Fail” is a thing of the past.

9. He doesn’t fully understand rising inequality. In response to a question from Senator Sherrod Brown, the Ohio Democrat, Powell said that inequality and wage stagnation are pressing problems, and he said that, to him, the “most compelling” factor in explaining them was a shortfall in educational attainment that had left American workers without the skills they need to compete in a high-tech world.... When Powell said that the Fed doesn’t have many tools for dealing with the issue of income distribution, he was stating received wisdom. But the Fed does play an important role in determining the level of employment, the regulatory environment, and the level of asset prices, all of which affect inequality. The Fed isn't entirely an innocent bystander.

Slightly truncated from the original article.

Also: Dow soars 256 points on tax plan, Jerome Powell hearing (Matt Egan for CNN Money, Nov. 28, 2017)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:46 AM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

From Bruce Bartlett, former Reagan senior policy advisor and Bush I Treasury official, i.e. one of the people who created trickle-down. Some snippets though the whole thing is worth a read.

Republicans' cynical long game on taxes: Understanding why Trump, McConnell, Ryan and Norquist need to get this bill passed now

The conventional wisdom is that Republicans are simply paying off their wealthy donors. Obviously this is true, but is only part of the story. The main reason is that a huge tax cut cements Republican policy into place even if Democrats regain control of Congress and the White House.

In fact, I think many Republicans know and expect that they may lose control of Congress in 2018 and the White House in 2020. Their tax cut will ensure that the era of Democratic control will be brief and unpopular. [...]

Therefore, Norquist has systematically pursued a policy of slashing taxes by as much as possible whenever the opportunity presents itself, with no concern whatsoever about the deficit, which Republicans are only concerned with when Democrats are in power. And Norquist knows that Democrats will regain power from time to time.

But if Democrats are forced to spend all of their time and political capital cleaning up Republican fiscal messes, they have little left to pursue their own agenda and will alienate their own voters with unpopular budget cuts and tax increases. [...]

No conservative I knew — and I was active in the conservative movement in those days — mourned Bush’s defeat. And when Bill Clinton proposed a big tax increase in 1993, it played directly into Norquist’s and Gingrich’s hands. They gained effective control of the Republican Party’s policymaking and got a majority in both houses of Congress for the first time in 40 years in 1994.

Democrats seem to have forgotten this history, but Republicans remember it very well — they never learn and never forget. They are perfectly willing to endure a temporary electoral defeat if it helps build a better foundation the next time Republicans are in control. Purging every Republican mildly sympathetic to a healthy tax system is worth losing control, temporarily, in their eyes.

If Democrats get control of one or both houses of Congress next year — a good bet — then obviously the tax cutting will end. That’s why Republicans are working at breakneck speed to get their tax cut enacted ASAP. They will use any lie, any tactic, no matter how underhanded, to achieve their goal.

posted by chris24 at 7:48 AM on November 29, 2017 [48 favorites]

He seems certain to follow Yellen’s lead, which means that the Fed’s current policy of slowly raising interest rates will continue.

It's not surprising that he would be basically the same on everything, it's not like the Fed Board of Governors is a place where great diversity of opinion is treasured. But replacing Janet Yellen at the Fed with one of her chummy comrades who has the exact same view on the world and will make the exact same policy decisions is one of Trump's weirdest moves yet. It's just pointless. Is it really just him wanting to fire someone Obama appointed?
posted by dis_integration at 7:52 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Dow soars 256 points on tax plan

Of course it's going to soar. If it passes there's going to be the world's biggest fucking payday that you've ever seen. So many companies are going to have more money than they know what to do with and shareholders will demand stock buybacks or dividend splurges.
posted by Talez at 7:53 AM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ivanka Trump Speaks At Entrepreneurship Summit In India (NPR, Nov. 28, 2017)

In her keynote address, Ivanka Trump gushed over Indian enterprise and entrepreneurial spirit. This year's summit spotlights female entrepreneurs, and Trump highlighted her own experience, saying that women often have to work harder than men to prove themselves. But Trump has been criticized over her own fashion line, which is produced overseas, mostly in China, where women in the garment industry are among the lowest-paid workers in the world. Yet Trump insists her mission is the empowerment of women and lauded Modi for promoting their advancement. It was a moment to relish for India's prime minister, who hopes to become a favored partner of Washington.

Reminder: Modi bears a responsibility for some of the worst religious violence ever seen in independent India, the 2002 Gujarat riots against the minority Muslim population, and violence against that community extended into the next year. The Chief Minister of Gujarat at that time, Narendra Modi, was accused of initiating and condoning the violence, as were police and government officials who allegedly directed the rioters and gave lists of Muslim-owned properties to them, though Modi was officially cleared of complicity in the violence by Special Investigation Team.

I just can't imagine what Trump sees in Modi.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:56 AM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

It's just pointless. Is it really just him wanting to fire someone Obama appointed?

Pretty much. The dirty not-so-secret of this administration is that Trump cares much less about what policies it enacts (except when those policies put money in his pocket) than what it undoes. It's just about repealing everything Obama did, and his advisers get to fight over how to fill the gap. Here, when Obama appointed somebody that even the nutcases generally like, they know better than to try and convince Trump not to fire her, but they can easily get him to appoint somebody who's basically the same (except male).
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 7:57 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

chris24: "they never learn and never forget."

Shout out to my man, Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Périgord!
posted by Chrysostom at 8:03 AM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Mod note: One deleted. For more followup on Matt Lauer and other harassment/assault stuff by non-politicians, let's take it over to this harassment/assault thread.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 8:11 AM on November 29, 2017

Basically admitting it's fake news but supports their racist agenda, so it's all good.

@MajorCBS
In re @realDonaldTrump retweets of @JaydaBF videos this morning @PressSec "Whether it's a real video, the threat is real. His goal is to promote strong border security and strong national security."


And more from the UK.

@jeremycorbyn
I hope our Government will condemn far-right retweets by Donald Trump. They are abhorrent, dangerous and a threat to our society.
posted by chris24 at 8:14 AM on November 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

I don't really agree with the "the GOP has it figured out, they're going to loot on the theory that reversing the looting will fuck up the Democratic projects after 2018 and then they'll sweep back in to victory" narrative.

First, because the standard liberal/center-left story about the GOP is that they are very clever institution builders and that this is not situational but intrinsic - the standard narrative is that the GOP has always-already won, and yet this does not explain either Democratic successes or Democratic collaboration/right-wingism very well.

But more importantly because this narrative assumes that what happens is that history repeats without changing - the GOP did something last time, they learned/never forget and they'll do the same thing this time, and it will work because history is just repetition. I don't think this is true. I think we're in a period of realignment after a series of cycles of declining Republican coherence and effectiveness. (This isn't to say that things can't be terrible - but if they're terrible, they won't be terrible because the GOP has always-already won through repeating their incredibly successful tactics.)

In 1980, Reagan won and created a sort of ur-GOP narrative about government, taxes, etc. The Reagan administration was monstrous and devastating, but it was ideologically coherent and capable of maintaining hegemony; it was also responding to a global economic and cultural shift. The Bush administrations were increasingly feeble imitations of Reagan, more openly hypocritical/incoherent and less hegemonic. The Trump administration is a sort of fascist kitsch Reagan administration (kitsch squared, if you will) that has none of the coherence or hegemony of Reaganism and cannot have it because the economic and cultural moment that Reagan spoke to has passed. Trump can rule by force and cheating, but he can't unite the country.

The Clinton era was a feeble response to Reaganism - the third-way sellout of working people. Obama was better. The next Democratic victory will be stronger and different - possibly revolutionary. The GOP is assuming that what will happen is we'll elect a sort of sub-Clinton figure - someone who will hew to third-way-ism and therefore won't have the power or the skills to survive these GOP landmines. But they're forgetting that even the most mediocre third-wayist is going to come to power because of a new left-of-center coalition and will therefore be forced to the left. Whoever wins is going to be in debt to the DSA and other truly left orgs, plus a lot of motivated left-liberals. That will be their base, and their base will be more organized and active than any Democratic base has been since perhaps the sixties.

If Trump were a center-right president with some political skills, if Ryan weren't a looter, if the 27% weren't crazed by racism, then the GOP could probably ride out another cycle of imitation-Reagan greed and profiteering. But because history isn't just repetition, the contradictions - as the fellow said - have heightened, and it's no longer possible to elect a caretaker GOPer for another cycle of graft.
posted by Frowner at 8:27 AM on November 29, 2017 [79 favorites]

And now Prime Minister Theresa May has responded:

"Britain First seeks to divide communities in their use of hateful narratives which peddle lies and stoke tensions. This causes anxiety to law abiding people. British people overwhelming reject the prejudice rhetoric of the far-right, which is the antithesis of the values that this country represents; decency, tolerance and respect. It is wrong for the president to have done this."

posted by chris24 at 8:28 AM on November 29, 2017 [58 favorites]

What frowner said. If you look at Trump, he's looking more and more like evil republican Jimmy Carter. 1 term president elected in a weird situation with majorities in both sides of congress but unable to accomplish much. If he decides to get involved in some doomed foreign entanglement even better.

The Democrat who follows is going to come with a huge cultural and political narrative shift, that could realign all the rules we operate by for a generation. So whatever little games Republicans today think they're playing are dumb.

Want evidence of the brewing super storm? Just look at all the powerful men dropping like flies. Bernie Sanders, socialist, is America's most popular politician. Something is happening.
posted by Glibpaxman at 8:40 AM on November 29, 2017 [26 favorites]

But more importantly because this narrative assumes that what happens is that history repeats without changing - the GOP did something last time, they learned/never forget and they'll do the same thing this time, and it will work because history is just repetition. I don't think this is true. I think we're in a period of realignment after a series of cycles of declining Republican coherence and effectiveness. (This isn't to say that things can't be terrible - but if they're terrible, they won't be terrible because the GOP has always-already won through repeating their incredibly successful tactics.)

The inherent contradictions of the GOP are pretty manifest. They've so self-lobotomized that they can no longer govern. The base expects impossible legislation. The most energized elements of their party are the most divisive and alienating to the general public. The rest of the party is literally dying away. Their President is the most unpopular in recorded history, and very likely a criminal for colluding with a foreign power, along with many members of his campaign. They have alienated every segment of the population they need to win to stay relevant: women, hispanics, and young people.

Sometimes, right before dying, folks get a burst of energy (it's been called The Rally). I think that may be true of political parties as well; it's the last scream of "No!" before the demographics overwhelm them.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:51 AM on November 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

The Clinton era was a feeble response to Reaganism - the third-way sellout of working people.

I really do hate this continual narrative that 1992 Clinton was a sell out. Prior to 1992 we tried mid west progressive nerd and then New England progressive nerd and both got their teeth smashed in at the EC. Clinton wasn't a sellout, he was literally all the liberal that Americans would tolerate in that era and the only way to stem the tide of drowning government in a bathtub.
posted by Talez at 8:56 AM on November 29, 2017 [56 favorites]

I hope you all are correct that demographics are going to be the death of Republicans, but I just don't see it because my local party ran a recent Chinese immigrant interested in the same old Republican policies against an insanely successful mayor and just barely lost but their empty suits won every city council seat.

The Republican ideology of tax cuts for the wealthy, tax increases and services cuts for the rest, and faith and class (really income based) oppression are popular policies I'm sorry to say.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:58 AM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Once again, a flagged-as-excellent Frowner post. To put even Reagan in perspective - he may have been canonized as St. Ronnie of the Trickledown in retrospect, but he was not that popular when he was in office! Bush Sr. was more popular in overall ratings. Reagan looked good next to Nixon, Ford, and Carter, but he was only just as popular as Democrats Johnson and Clinton.

I thought it was interesting to find that out - the vaunted Reagan popularity is more in retrospect than in reality. (I lived through the 80's and the first election I could vote in was 1984, and it confirmed what I remembered, that Ronald Reagan wasn't considered all that and a bag of chips in his time!)

I think that the Democratic party is far stronger than it was then; Obama's election gave the lie to the "we must push bland empty suit candidates" party line. Back in the 80's, "Socialists" were a joke at best; now the DSA is a serious, no-joke, force to contend with who are doing good and practical things as part of their party platform.

Danica Roem made headlines as a trans woman elected to public office; she's also in a heavy metal band, and I remember a time when that alone would have disqualified her because Heavy Metal Is Satan's Work.

I hope our tune can change to Things Can Only Get Better eventually.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:00 AM on November 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

I hope you all are correct that demographics are going to be the death of Republicans, but I just don't see it because my local party ran a recent Chinese immigrant interested in the same old Republican policies against an insanely successful mayor and just barely lost but their empty suits won every city council seat.

Concur and I think it should be noted that today's demographically-doomed crusty olds were yesterday's bright-future flower-children.
posted by notyou at 9:02 AM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

I thought it was interesting to find that out - the vaunted Reagan popularity is more in retrospect than in reality. (I lived through the 80's and the first election I could vote in was 1984, and it confirmed what I remembered, that Ronald Reagan wasn't considered all that and a bag of chips in his time!)

He's not popular? He throttled Mondale by 18 points. Even MA went red.
posted by Talez at 9:03 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

I'm going to try and head off part of this conversation by saying that OF COURSE we know that the GOP will not just go quietly into the night and none of anything said upthread happens without every single one of us doing their part.

The demographics and cultural shifts are the opportunities presented to us. If and only if we exploit these opportunities do any of these predictions come to pass.

That's all of us are going to step up and do the work is the underlying assumption behind these types of predictions.
posted by VTX at 9:04 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

CNN: Donald Trump Jr. to talk to House Intelligence Committee behind closed doors

Senate Intelligence is also trying to get a hold of him, apparently.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:06 AM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

I know that part of the problem with Dukakis was being too liberal for a large part of the country, but another was that he he ran a terrible and gaffe-ridden campaign. The media hated Al Gore, Saturday Night Live made fun of John Kerry, but they also ran bad - or at least flawed - campaigns. With Kerry at least, the time was running out on the bland boring "electable" Democratic candidates as well.

Clinton did have personal charm and charisma, and he was smart, and ran good campaigns - it was this, not just Third-Way-ism, that got him elected twice.

Fair or not, Dems can't appeal to the "Vote for me because of loyalty/because I'm a terrific person/ because I'm not a Republican" voters; we have to impress them, like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and, yes, Hillary Clinton, did.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

NBC reports: Question on President Trump's retweets this morning: Does it matter if it's a fake video?

Sarah Sanders: "I'm not talking about the nature of the video. I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. The threat is real, and that's what the President is talking about."

It's now official what was merely obvious: truth doesn't matter in the WH.
posted by Devonian at 9:08 AM on November 29, 2017 [42 favorites]

I hope you all are correct that demographics are going to be the death of Republicans, but I just don't see it because my local party ran a recent Chinese immigrant interested in the same old Republican policies against an insanely successful mayor and just barely lost but their empty suits won every city council seat.

My point isn't "the Republicans are doomed because of demographics", it's "whatever happens next will be different, not just a retread of what worked for Reagan, and just because the GOP has what passes in US politics for a long memory does not mean that they always win". Things may be horrible! Trump may decide to govern by military force! There may be some kind of weird cold civil war. This place may look like Bigger 1980s Guatemala in 2025 for all I know. Or we may all die of bird flu.

Caretaker presidents hewing to a middle-of-the-road GOPism or a socially-sorta-liberal-economically-in-hock-to-billionaires Democratic norm are not the immediate future for us - that's what I'm saying.

Clinton worked hard to bring us welfare reform and NAFTA. He owned those. Without them, we would not be in our current fix because we would be a much less unequal nation. (And Mexico would be in way better shape - still having, for instance, a viable internal grain market.) Clinton's sell out of working Americans was not his failure to bring socialism, it was his intentional, disastrous attack on the safety net that we actually had at the time.
posted by Frowner at 9:11 AM on November 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

Mod note: A few deleted; we're definitely not gonna debate whether Clinton ran a good campaign in 2016, and I'm gonna suggest we not get drawn into "whither Dems and whither Repubs" which we've done many times, and essspecially not if people will feel compelled to elaborate on just how horrible the future will inevitably be. And here's your periodic reminder that if anyone has missed it, please check this Metatalk thread about changing norms in the megathreads.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 9:14 AM on November 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

Tax bill updates:

-- Motion to proceed vote was supposed to be about 2 pm ET, now it's "sometime today." Daines, at least, says he's not ready to proceed.

-- CBO says that Alexander-Murray won't reduce number of uninsured if paired with individual mandate repeal. This was one of the things that Collins/Murkowski were using as a fig leaf.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:21 AM on November 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

Without them, we would not be in our current fix because we would be a much less unequal nation.

We would be more equal if Bush had a second term and Dole had won? To argue that we weren't much better off with Clinton than we were with the Republicans is one thing but to say he was worse?

So the the 744 judges Clinton appointed count for nothing? Ginsburg is nothing? Breyer is nothing?

Yes, WJC was way more to the right than Carter or Obama but to write off his entire administration is short-sighted.

Anyway! About half a million of those fake FCC comments came from Russian email accounts. Which seems kinda weird.
posted by asteria at 9:27 AM on November 29, 2017 [33 favorites]

Had a fun talk with a staffer at Senator Grassley's regional office who acknowledged that the President retweeting neo-Nazis "looks bad", but said that despite his continued support for Trump, Senator Grassley is not himself a neo-Nazi.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:29 AM on November 29, 2017 [33 favorites]

Senator Grassley is, however, likely to vote yes on S.1, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Senator Grassley does not believe the Congressional Budget Office's calculations are flawed. Senator Grassley does not believe lowering taxes on high-income people and raising them on low and middle income people is good policy. But Senator Grassley will vote for a bill that the Congressional Budget Office says does exactly that, while causing millions of people to lose access to affordable healthcare. It's all a bit of a mystery!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:31 AM on November 29, 2017 [20 favorites]

Concur and I think it should be noted that today's demographically-doomed crusty olds were yesterday's bright-future flower-children.

If you mean this literally - nope. Not really. My parents and their siblings are (mostly) boomers who were liberal back then and are liberal now. It's not like a switch gets flipped and all the idealistic youths are forever doomed to become conservative. That's just a condescending meme that old conservatives use to tell young liberals that they're foolish.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:31 AM on November 29, 2017 [60 favorites]

It's now official what was merely obvious: truth doesn't matter in the WH.

And that it's not Muslim extremism that's the threat, but all Muslims, or even just people they can call Muslims even though they're not, but can be used to further islamophobia.
posted by zombieflanders at 9:32 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

I can also confirm that Senator Grassley has not seen the President's tax returns and so does not know whether the President is telling the truth vis-à-vis his claim that these tax cuts for the rich, including to the estate tax, will not benefit the Trump family.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:32 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

If you are not a liberal at 20, you have no heart.

If you are not a conservative at 40+, you paid attention and learned things when you were 20.
posted by delfin at 9:34 AM on November 29, 2017 [138 favorites]

My parents have never changed their ideological alignment. They were Objectists in 1970 and they're Objectivists in 2017. (It is truly a mystery to me, but there you have it.) My husband's parents have been rabble-rousing leftists their entire lives as well and if anything have gone even further leftward as they become increasingly incensed at the state of the world that is being left to their children and grandchildren.

Generally, people tend to take on the ideology of their parents while they are kids/tweens, then ping back and forth a bunch in their teens and early twenties (lol this was fun for me given the whackadoo nature of what my parents were offering) until they settle into their own. I don't think there's much evidence of an ideological switcheroo that happens across the population.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:40 AM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

We would be more equal if Bush had a second term and Dole had won? To argue that we weren't much better off with Clinton than we were with the Republicans is one thing but to say he was worse?

The point isn't "we should have elected a Republican". It's that Clinton individually made bad choices to forward bad policies. He could have used the information that was available at the time and decided that pursuing welfare "reform" would weaken the working class and ultimately, therefore, the Democratic party. Welfare reform and NAFTA were his signature accomplishments - his Obamacare, if you will.

We had a choice between a Republican and a third way-er who made choices which increased economic polarization and weakened the Democratic party, but making choices which increase economic polarization is not mandatory for a Democrat. We can't just treat elected Democrats like "wind them up and watch them go, at least they're not Republicans" - we have to have continuing expectations for them.
posted by Frowner at 9:44 AM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Generally, people tend to take on the ideology of their parents while they are kids/tweens, then ping back and forth a bunch in their teens and early twenties (lol this was fun for me given the whackadoo nature of what my parents were offering) until they settle into their own.

There's a weird disconnect between ideology and politics, though. I do think I adopted my dad's ideology, which was generally liberal - equality, environmentalism, fairness. However, politically he was a Rush Limbaugh Republican, shaped by years of right-wing radio.

Ideology and politics are, unfortunately, very different things these days.
posted by heathkit at 9:48 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

There's some evidence that people actually turn more liberal as they get older. (I would definitely believe this of women! Many of us radicalize as we hit our heads on the glass ceiling, let me tell you!) Others say it's more complicated - but it's not as simple as "young=liberal" and "old=conservative."

There were plenty of conservative young suburbanites in the 1960's and 70's, and many erstwhile flower children were in it for the sex, pot, cool music, and flamboyant outfits - not the politics. The draft was a huge part of political orientation in that era as well (link to previous MeFi thread, with bonus commentary on awful gym teachers).

It makes me wonder if the sheer WTF awful of Trump is acting like the draft did to the war generation - doing what that did to galvanize opposition across a wide swath of society.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:50 AM on November 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

Regarding the Coast Guard discussion upthread... As the Coast Guard is ranging futher it's detaining people in for months in improvised prisons.

So there you go. It's 2017.
posted by rdr at 9:58 AM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

It doesn't matter if the 'pussy grab' tape was real. I think you're focusing on the wrong things. The threat is real and that's what the President is talking about
posted by Myeral at 10:03 AM on November 29, 2017 [54 favorites]

Welfare reform and NAFTA were his signature accomplishments - his Obamacare, if you will.

If non-Clintonite Dems had done their job, his Obamacare would've been basically Obamacare. He spent much of his first two years and political capital on universal healthcare and a Dem Senate and Dem House with HUGE majorities couldn't pass it. And then Ds lost both houses in '94 because of trying for healthcare and Clinton couldn't pass anything without buy-in from Republicans.


a third way-er who made choices which increased economic polarization and weakened the Democratic party

Clinton pursued the most liberal legislative goal in decades and doing that cost Dems both houses, which made impeachment possible, which led basically to Bush. So a decent argument could be made that pursuing liberal policies before the country was ready weakened the Democratic Party and country.
posted by chris24 at 10:04 AM on November 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

Mod note: Couple deleted. Folks, if there is a slow moment right now, the thread can just be slow -- it doesn't mean it must be filled with general Clinton talk, who was a good past president, what about the 90s, do people change as they age, or general "how much left should the left left left" stuff. We're trying to turn down the frequency of that kind of repetitive general discussion in these threads.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 10:16 AM on November 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

In a sensible world, Theresa May would revoke Trump's invitation to visit the UK for spreading anti-Muslim hate and Twitter would suspend his account. Have any journalists tracked down the sources and background of these videos yet?

How's that House Intelligence Committee investigation going? Not great. Bloomberg, House Lawmakers Plan Competing Reports on Trump Investigation:

Republicans are planning to wrap up their Russia probe as early as February, but they’re not likely to agree with Democrats on a bipartisan report, according to officials familiar with the committee’s workings who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.

A Republican “majority” report will assert there’s no evidence of Russian collusion with Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign based on what the committee has learned so far, according to two of the officials. Democrats are likely to counter with a minority report asserting there’s plenty of substantive evidence pointing to collusion, while saying they weren’t given enough time to investigate it, the officials said.

Rep. Conaway, who took over from Nunes after his "recusal," helpfully adds that he has a farm bill to write so he just wants to "move on," because why bother investigating the greatest national security issue this country faces when you can dole out more farm subsidies, I guess?

Margot Sanger-Katz provides a depressing graphic on The Tax Bill’s Automatic Spending Cuts, things that would be automatically cut under PAYGO as a result of the tax bill being passed.

On a similar theme, Sarah Kliff explains how The Senate’s tax bill is a sweeping change to every part of federal health care:

The bill reaches into every major American health care program: Medicaid, Medicare, and the Obamacare marketplaces.

These are expected outcomes based on two significant policy changes in the bill. First, the bill repeals the individual mandate, a key piece of Obamacare that requires most Americans get covered. Economists expect its elimination to reduce enrollment in both the Affordable Care Act’s private marketplaces and Medicaid by millions. The money saved will be pumped into tax cuts for the very wealthy.

The bill also includes tax cuts so large that they would trigger across-the-board spending cuts — including billions for Medicare. The last time Medicare was hit with cuts like this, patients lost access to critical services like chemotherapy treatment.

Following CNN's decision to skip the White House Christmas Party, we find out they simply didn't invite April Ryan, for the first time in 20 years. “I don’t think I was overlooked,” she said. “I think they don’t like me. For whatever reason, they have disdain for me.”
posted by zachlipton at 10:39 AM on November 29, 2017 [51 favorites]

“I think they don’t like me. For whatever reason, they have disdain for me.”

Because she's a woman.
posted by Melismata at 10:50 AM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

I get it, black and brown and yellow lives don't matter as much, particularly when they're half a world away, but their deaths aren't necessarily "better".

I took that as "better for the analogy", as opposed to "hopefully some people get bombed" but yeah, made me flinch a bit as well.
posted by history_denier at 11:00 AM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

@JenniferJJacobs: Q: Does Trump’s think Muslims are a threat to the US? "The president has addressed these issues with the travel order,” deputy press sec Raj Shah tells press on AF1.

That would be the "travel order" that the government keeps insisting in court is absolutely not a Muslim ban and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion, right?
posted by zachlipton at 11:19 AM on November 29, 2017 [88 favorites]

As I understand it, the reason that a 'Muslim travel ban' is unlawful is that it's unconstitutional, and so prime face so that nobody's arguing that such a thing would not be.

I've rather lost track of the charge sheet against 45, which today has another tick against the 'promoting hatred' entry, as even if you restrict it to things that other people would be arrested for it's unmanageable. But it galls me in particular that the man so consistently breaks his presidential oath - or, at the very least, proves that he cannot uphold it due to lack of ability. So many reasons to 25 him out, but breaking the promise at the nub of the office...

I've seen some shambles of political parties in my time, but I don't think I've ever seen one of any substance, let alone one in power in a democracy, that's as hollowed-out and parasitised as the GOP. It's an ugly political parody.
posted by Devonian at 11:43 AM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Climate Scientists Watch Their Words, Hoping To Stave Off Funding Cuts (NPR, Nov. 29, 2017)

An NPR analysis of grants awarded by the National Science Foundation found a steadily decreasing number with the phrase "climate change" in the title or summary, resulting in a sharp drop in the term's use in 2017. At the same time, the use of alternative terms such as "extreme weather" appears to be rising slightly.

The change in language appears to be driven in part by the Trump administration's open hostility to the topic of climate change. Earlier this year, President Trump pulled the U.S. out of the Paris climate accord, and the President's 2018 budget proposal singled out climate change research programs for elimination.

Meanwhile, the Environmental Protection Agency has been systematically removing references to climate change from its official website. Both the EPA's leader, Scott Pruitt, and Secretary of Energy Rick Perry have said they do not accept the scientific consensus that humans are causing the planet to get warmer.

(Note: not all climate change programs are being stricken under Trump's 2018 proposed budget -- I can't load the page again now, but there were 22 inclusions of "climate" and the first was about food science related to climate accommodation, if I recall correctly.)

Anyway, there are Early Signs That 2018 Will Be The Year Of The Climate Voter, according to Nathaniel Stinnett, Contributor to Huffington Post, who is the Founder and Executive Director of the Environmental Voter Project. At least, looking at the Nov. 7 Democratic (beginning of a) wave. Let's hope the pendulum can swing back, hard and fast, to offset Trump and co's "pro-business" head-in-the-sand response to climate change stuff.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:47 AM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

The Daily Beast: Strong Evidence that U.S. Special Operations Forces Massacred Civilians in Somalia (Warning: photos of victims and graphic descriptions of violence)
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:47 AM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Because she's a woman.

Worse. She's an African American woman who asked a question during a press briefing that got a racist answer from the President. (She asked him about the administration's inner city policies and he asked her if she was friends with members of the Black Caucus.) Our "least racist President" thinks all Black people know each other. Or attend meetings or something.

Oh, and she regularly rips the President to pieces on Twitter.

Also, #piegate.

And "Lie-abetes"
posted by zarq at 11:55 AM on November 29, 2017 [37 favorites]

Jimmy Carter. 1 term president elected in a weird situation with majorities in both sides of congress but unable to accomplish much.

Not close, not by a million miles:

10 Good Things President Carter Did
1. Created the Department of Energy.
2. Created the Department of Education
3. Supported SALT II (Strategic Arms Limitations Talks)
4. Brokered the Israel-Egypt Peace Treaty.
5. Installed solar panels in the White House.
6. Boycotted the 1980 Olympics.
7. Granted amnesty to Vietnam draft-dodgers.
8. Established diplomatic relations with China
9. Pushed for comprehensive health care reform.
10. Returned the Panama Canal to Panama

I’ll add #11, relevant to 2017 - Publicly admitted he had sinned. In his heart.
posted by Room 641-A at 11:56 AM on November 29, 2017 [103 favorites]

Links I don't think I've seen here yet...

David Shortell, CNN: "Sen. Chris Coons calls for hearing into possible Trump interference with US attorneys"

In a letter dated last week, Coons wrote to Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley requesting the hearing "based on a series of events that leave me concerned that President Trump does not respect the important boundaries between politics and the prosecutorial decisions of US Attorneys within the Department of Justice."

CNN reported in October that Trump had met with at least three candidates for US attorney positions in New York and Washington, DC [...] Coons in the letter also cites concern over the resignation of former US Attorney and Acting Assistant Attorney General Dana Boente, who left office late last month.

Luke Barnes, Think Progress: "Breitbart writer caught running secret, virulently racist Facebook group"

Jack Hadfield, a third-year politics student at the University of Warwick in the U.K., has written more than 150 articles for Breitbart News, mainly focusing on technology. But in his spare time he runs the Facebook group Young Right Society
[...]
One post for instance described Jo Cox, a Labour MP who was murdered by a far-right terrorist last year, as a “virtue-signaling, more-progressive-than-thou cunt.” Other members posted support of National Action, which in 2016 became the first neo-Nazi group to be put on the British Government’s List of proscribed terrorist organizations. One user on YRS posted a prison letter from National Action member Lawrence Burns, who was jailed for four years in 2017 for inciting racial hatred.

Chris Vallance, BBC: "Russian Fancy Bear hackers' UK link revealed"

When Russia's most notorious hackers hired servers from a UK-registered company, they left a trove of clues behind, the BBC has discovered. The hackers used the computers to attack the German parliament, hijack traffic meant for a Nigerian government website and target Apple devices. The company, Crookservers, had claimed to be based in Oldham for a time.

Michael Crowley, Politico: "Trump cedes Syrian postwar planning to Putin"

“It’s become quite clear that the Assad-Putin-Iran gambit has almost completely won in Syria,” said Paul Salem, senior vice president at the Middle East Institute. The Russians “want to show their relevance and influence beyond the military phase” and broker a political settlement, he added.

posted by OnceUponATime at 11:57 AM on November 29, 2017 [24 favorites]

10 Good Things President Carter Did

And let's not forget HR 1337 legalizing home brewing, sparking the craft beer revolution. Jimmy Carter was a great President and I won't let anyone tell me different.
posted by dis_integration at 11:59 AM on November 29, 2017 [61 favorites]

Indeed, zarq. I wonder sometimes if they're baffled that African American women can be so smart.

It still rankles me that the White House Chief Usher (long a non-political position), an African American woman, was fired, and nobody got upset about that, at least not in the mainstream media, where all of these things should be...
posted by Melismata at 11:59 AM on November 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

Senator Murkowski is a YES on the tax bill.

"I dunno, this bill seems like it would actively harm low- and middle-income Americans..." "We'll let you drill for oil in pristine wilderness!" "SOLD!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:09 PM on November 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

In the least surprising news ever, Ron Johnson has been bought off.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:09 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

PATRIOTHOLE: President Trump Needs To Stop Retweeting Anti-Muslim Videos Posted By British Bigots And Start Retweeting Anti-Muslim Videos Posted By American Bigots

PATRIOTHOLE is a work of satire
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:13 PM on November 29, 2017 [11 favorites]

Several GOP senators coming out of today's lunch talking about the idea of an auto spending cut trigger instead of a tax increase trigger if growth doesn't hit target

Just when you thought it couldn’t get worse, they may make it worse.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:13 PM on November 29, 2017 [42 favorites]

Is it still within the realm of reconciliation to enact automatic spending cuts (or for that matter tax increases)? Lets not forget that the whole simple-majority-to-win is a charade based on completely fabricated assumptions.
posted by H. Roark at 12:17 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is it still within the realm of reconciliation to enact automatic spending cuts (or for that matter tax increases)?

I believe so. You can't increase spending with reconciliation (assuming that would cause deficits) but I don't know of any reason why you couldn't cut spending as long as it wasn't an obvious fig leaf for social policy.
posted by Justinian at 12:20 PM on November 29, 2017

Why would he have spent so much time defending the tape previously if it wasn't him?

To me, this is pure NPD. The reason personality disorders are mental illnesses and not just the way someone is is because they frequently lead to delusions. When the tape surfaced, Trump's immediate reaction was to try to spin it into not being that big a deal, not really a bad thing, etc. And it sort of worked, I guess, because he won the fucking election.

But now people keep bringing it up in the context of sexual harassment/assault and that drives him nuts. Anything that makes him look like a bad guy that he can't spin is going to continue messing with him. So he moves to outright denial of reality. Anyone who had dealt with a narcissistic person closely will recognize this. They did something bad? Nope. Didn't happen. Wasn't them. What's wrong with you that you remember it so inaccurately? It's clearly just someone out to get them telling lies and faking evidence.

The fact that this is such a weak attempt at gaslighting the nation into not believing clear video evidence just shows how far gone he is.
posted by threeturtles at 12:22 PM on November 29, 2017 [46 favorites]

In which the Embassy of the Netherlands fact checks the President of the United States on Twitter: “.@realDonaldTrump Facts do matter. The perpetrator of the violent act in this video was born and raised in the Netherlands. He received and completed his sentence under Dutch law.”
posted by zachlipton at 12:23 PM on November 29, 2017 [55 favorites]

It looks to me like the only real possibility of the tax bill failing is a Collins-Corker-McCain coalition. Collins wants Alexander Murray before the individual mandate repeal... even though it won't do anything to offset the damage... and I think that's unlikely. Corker wants triggers to stop the deficit from exploding, and I think that's unlikely unless they do the spending cut triggers instead of tax increase triggers. McCain gonna McCain.

Flake is a wildcard for a "fuck you, Trump" no vote but again I think that's very unlikely.

The most likely get seems to me to be Corker with the addition of spending cut triggers as I think all the opposition to triggers among Republicans has been against tax-increase triggers. The next is McCain because McCain gonna McCain. I leave Collins last because if they get Corker or McCain they don't need her so no reason to buy her off with Alexander Murray or the other stuff.
posted by Justinian at 12:29 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Re. the rooftop video:

The video is four years old. It's from Alexandria, Egypt in 2013, shortly after the military overthrew the country's first elected president (an Islamist, Mohamed Morsi) in a coup, and protest and violence had broken out in multiple cities across the country (2/3) (Threadreader compilation)
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:33 PM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Trump just now: "I will tell you this in a non-braggadocious way..." [pause for laughter] "There has never been a ten-month president that has accomplished what we've accomplished." [applause]

I think there's a strong argument that Washington achieved more, what with founding the nation and all. On the other hand, Trump has achieved a lot more on the golf course.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:33 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is there any possibility that the Dems refuse to negotiate or cooperate on not shutting down the government if the tax bill goes through?
posted by localhuman at 12:36 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Not because the tax bill goes through but they may well refuse to cooperate if a DACA fix or some other priorities aren't included. The Republicans control both houses, there is no reason for Democrats to help them out. If they want a clean CR they can do it with solely with Republican votes (lol they won't).
posted by Justinian at 12:39 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

If the Democrats take a stand on specific policies which have broad popular support, sufficient numbers of Republicans will cave to avoid a shutdown for which they would be blamed. This is especially the case if Republicans succeed in passing the tax bill.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:44 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

The Dems will be very reluctant to do so because shutdowns cause misery, and misery causes Look What The Dems Did To You attack ads next year. But there is also no reason for Dems to give ground gracefully if the result dynamites the economy, the ACA mandate and the working class.

Pelosi and Schumer are not idiots and will whip the votes as needed. But it will be cases of determining the lesser evils.
posted by delfin at 12:51 PM on November 29, 2017

> Margot Sanger-Katz provides a depressing graphic on The Tax Bill’s Automatic Spending Cuts, things that would be automatically cut under PAYGO as a result of the tax bill being passed.

When do you think the media is going to get around to focusing on the quarter-billion dollar cut to Higher Education? The 25 billion cut to Medicare? 6 billion in cuts to Risk Adjustment Program Payments (insurance subsidies)? 1.7 billion in cuts to Social Services block grants?

Did I hear "Never"? Or - wait - did you see the videos Trump retweeted?

Sometimes I worry that there's method to his vile insanity.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:51 PM on November 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

This could be a novelty Twitter account, actually.

After the CutCutCut act is passed, PAYGO rules will require:

• $114 million in cuts to Payments to States in Lieu of Coal Fee Receipts. Working tirelessly for coal miners!
• $775 million in cuts to Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration. Who needs stupid endangered species.
• $1.5 billion in cuts to Mineral Leasing and Associated Payments. Go, fracking!
• $4 billion in cuts to Build America Bond Payments, Recovery Act.
• $1.9 billion in cuts to the FDIC Orderly Liquidation Fund. Your $25,00 bank account guarantee is wobblier now.
• $13.5 billion in cuts to the Crime Victims Fund - too bad, but the billionaires need their money more than you do.

Make your own at this NYT link...
posted by RedOrGreen at 1:07 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

The stupid thing is that statutory PYAGO is already an automatic spending cut triggered by the tax bill. It already exists. Republicans are pretending it doesn't exist so they don't have to justify cutting Medicare and other things people like, and now they want to invent a new spending cut trigger? Not to mention the sheer idiocy of a system that imposes automatic austerity in the event of a recession. Right now, there's literally one group of Republicans plotting to ignore PAYGO so their tax cuts don't trigger automatic spending cuts, while another group is plotting to create a new system of automatic spending cuts to deal with the results of their tax bill. And they were supposed to vote on the motion to proceed a couple hours ago. I still think they're passing something come hell or high water, but this is incredibly ugly.

I am hearing from my CRFB people (and CBPP people) that there are potential Byrd Rule problems with triggers that cut discretionary spending, though I'll be damned if I know exactly what those are.

There are also Byrd Rule problems with the ANWR provision, though they managed to work around those back in 2005, and I presume they can fix it again.

Meanwhile, @ddale8: Trump points to people in the front when talking about how Congress needs to repeal the estate tax. He explains: "They love their children. They're very rich."
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on November 29, 2017 [24 favorites]

I am hearing from my CRFB people (and CBPP people) that there are potential Byrd Rule problems with triggers that cut discretionary spending

Whaaa... I thought I finally understood reconciliation but clearly not. I thought cuts in discretionary spending were okay through reconciliation! I have no idea what I'm doing.

I wonder if the House is gonna pass this shitshow as-is to get it over with this year? Though that would mean caving on SALT entirely?
posted by Justinian at 1:30 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

And all those cuts aren't just cuts in nebulous "services" - they're cuts in jobs. Cuts in staff. Which means ripple-effect job loss as people who used to have well-paying government jobs with benefits and who used to spend in their communities become unemployed.
posted by Frowner at 1:33 PM on November 29, 2017 [21 favorites]

Tax Cuts & Jobs Act
Tax & Jobs Cuts Act
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:38 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Right on queue, the President repeats his claim that his family will suffer financially from the tax cut bill. It's a very interesting claim, because the tax cut bill slashes the estate tax, which you would expect to help super-rich families like the Trumps. Maybe Senators should wait until the President releases his tax returns as promised before they vote on the bill? Then we can find out if he's got the math right.🤔
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 1:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Speaking of job cuts: Dismantling the Foreign Service (New York Times op-ed by Nicholas Burns, a former under secretary of state and ambassador to NATO, teaches diplomacy and international relations at Harvard, and Ryan C. Crocker, a former ambassador to Iraq and Afghanistan, is a lecturer at Princeton)

But we are concerned the Trump administration is weakening the Foreign Service by a series of misguided decisions since taking office. It has proposed a 31 percent budget reduction for the State Department that would cripple its global reach. It has failed to fill the majority of the most senior ambassadorial positions in Washington and overseas. It is on track to take the lowest number of new officers into the service in years.

It has even nominated a former officer with a scant eight years of experience to be the director general of the Foreign Service, the chief of its personnel system. The nonpartisan American Academy of Diplomacy (of which we both are members) advised Congress that this would be “like making a former Army captain the chief of staff of the Army.”

As a result, many of our most experienced diplomats are leaving the department. Along with the senior diplomats who were summarily fired by the Trump team early this year, we are witnessing the most significant departure of diplomatic talent in generations. The drop in morale among those who remain behind is obvious to both of us. The number of young Americans who applied to take the Foreign Service officer entry test declined by 33 percent in the past year. This is particularly discouraging and will weaken the service for years.

NPR talked with Burns in a segment titled A Diplomat On The Reported 'Hollowing Out' Of The State Department

...I think the biggest problem is that the great majority of leadership posts in Washington at the State Department and overseas are unfilled 11 months into the administration. So in the middle of the North Korea crisis, there is no American ambassador to Seoul. There's no assistant secretary of state for East Asia.

They edited the transcript to remove a Freudian slip, where Burns said

I think [Trump's] got a very different view of the world than nearly everybody in the American national security establishment - the State Department, the Defense Department. He's also someone who has not shown a great deal of interest in supporting democ- diplomacy.

He has hope that Democrats and Republicans will come together to resist the State Department budget cuts and "block some of the unqualified nominees that will be put forward" -- which makes me so very sad that blocking "some of the unqualified nominees" would be an improvement from what's currently happening. I have that hope too, but so far, it's been party above country for the GOP.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:51 PM on November 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

And all those cuts aren't just cuts in nebulous "services" - they're cuts in jobs. Cuts in staff. Which means ripple-effect job loss as people who used to have well-paying government jobs with benefits and who used to spend in their communities become unemployed.

IIRC, when the recession hit, somewhere in the neighborhood of one million government jobs were lost as states and cities cut spending. I think I heard that government job losses alone were around 1% of the unemployment rate. One million jobs lost has a huge economic impact. These PAYGO cuts will have a huge impact on jobs. But to the people that want the tax cuts the most, that's a feature, not a bug.
posted by azpenguin at 1:51 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Regarding the State Department cuts: if you were a foreign power that wanted to weaken a rival state, wouldn't this be a pretty good outcome?

This really gives me chills.
posted by maggiemaggie at 2:15 PM on November 29, 2017 [51 favorites]

Vote on the motion to proceed on the Senate tax bill (HR1) is happening now. I presume they have the votes.

What they're proceeding to exactly, that's another question.
posted by zachlipton at 2:28 PM on November 29, 2017

Another reason to call, write, and fax.

WSJ: House GOP to Propose Sweeping Changes to Higher Education (Apologies for the paywall; only WSJ is reporting this at the moment.)

The Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives this week will propose sweeping legislation that aims to change where Americans go to college, how they pay for it, what they study, and how their success—or failure—affects the institutions they attend.

The most dramatic and far-reaching element of the plan is a radical revamp of the $1.34 trillion federal student loan program. It would put caps on borrowing and eliminate some loan forgiveness programs.

(Chronicle of Higher Ed summary of the WSJ article):

Among the changes in the overhaul package from the U.S. House’s education committee, led by Rep. Virginia Foxx of North Carolina, are a plan to simplify the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, the Fafsa, and cap the amount that students may borrow. And it would end a loan-forgiveness program for public servants who have made payments on their loans for 10 years.

The bill would repeal the gainful-employment regulation, a thorn in the side of for-profit colleges, which is slated to undergo negotiated rule-making next week and be rewritten. The House Republicans’ bill also would expand job-training and apprenticeship opportunities, which have been championed by the Trump administration and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos. The bill would also maintain the ban on a unit-record system, which would foster the tracking of students’ attainments and has seen a groundswell of bipartisan support.

The WSJ noted that it'll take a year before the proposed law (the PROSPER Act) makes its way to a vote.
posted by notyou at 2:36 PM on November 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

Hahahahaha Mrs Molerats and I just did some long term budgeting re student loans. I didn't bother to even pretend these fuckers wouldn't fuck people out of the public service forgiveness.
posted by nakedmolerats at 2:50 PM on November 29, 2017 [15 favorites]

Hahahahaha Mrs Molerats and I just did some long term budgeting re student loans. I didn't bother to even pretend these fuckers wouldn't fuck people out of the public service forgiveness.

Which will further make government less effective -- fewer public defenders, fewer VA medical staff at a time when GOPers have introduced legislation to speed up VA provider hiring, fewer teachers, and on and on.
posted by jgirl at 2:57 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Motion to proceed on the tax bill passes on a party-line 52-48 vote. RonJon showed up and briefly acted like he might do something, then voted yes.

Meanwhile, Sen. Rubio couldn't even be bothered to wait until the deficit increasing tax bill passed to declare that he wants to decrease the deficit by cutting Social Security and Medicaire.
posted by zachlipton at 2:59 PM on November 29, 2017 [17 favorites]

Wow, this all sounds really bad.

So, um, is it time for bodies in streets and vigorous civil disobedience like we did to prevent Repeal And Go Fuck Yourself earlier this year? Or is this bill less important than the (effective) ACA repeal...that...it contains...?
posted by perspicio at 3:05 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

Which will further make government less effective -- fewer public defenders, fewer VA medical staff at a time when GOPers have introduced legislation to speed up VA provider hiring, fewer teachers, and on and on

Not to mention dissuading the next generation from going to college in the first place, and the knock-on effects this will have on higher education. My illustrious alma mater has already closed down a bunch of humanities-oriented departments (including mine) due to 'budget shortfalls,' essentially turning itself into an R1 trade school, and I am sure more universities will follow that lead; the only non-STEM departments spared are those which can attract lots of profitable international students paying in full. The grad students and untenured faculty and lower-level admin staff who lose jobs when this happens all have loans, and none will be able to pay them, and whatever jobs they do find probably won't involve teaching critical thought. So, another bonus. As small liberal arts colleges continue to collapse, the liberal kids who vote in those college towns will be dispersed, but worse, these collapsing colleges will take those college towns down with them, since they're often major employers and other employment centers on providing services to college staff and students and visiting families. (And in my experience, plenty of service-industry folks in these towns have college loans to pay, too.)

And as all these people default, PROSPER (ha) serves as a set-up for more draconian wage-garnishing efforts for those who are already yoked to their loans, as more and more people become less and less able to pay.
posted by halation at 3:10 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

I literally don't know what to do next. I have called and Resistbotted my Republican senators. I have posted on my social media asking others to do so. I ran halfway across the office this morning to butt in to a coworker's conversation and encourage her to yell at our senators because she had just found out that the tuition benefits for her kids will be taxed as income. I'm a full-time working mom who's on afternoon pickup duty, so I'm usually unable to go to protests, which all seem to begin around 4:00 PM here.

To be clear, I'm not despairing—I'm honestly asking if there's something I've overlooked, because I am out of ideas. And I can't stand the thought of telling my now-three-year-old someday that I didn't fight hard enough. What is the next step for your average Jane or Joe here?
posted by timestep at 3:15 PM on November 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

All of these Republicans with alleged “concerns” about Trump must be crying tears of delight away from the cameras. This is everything they’ve always wanted, including I guess the ruination of the country they hate so much.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:23 PM on November 29, 2017 [10 favorites]

... Maybe Senators should wait until the President releases his tax returns as promised before they vote on the bill?

Trump claims he won't release his tax returns because he is being audited. You know how we know that Trump isn't being audited? Because if he were, we would never hear the end of it. He'd be tweeting thrice daily about Crooked John Koskinen and whining about Why Isn't The IRS Auditing Hillary at rallies.
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:30 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

Richard W. Painter
@RWPUSA
Office of Special Counsel opens investigation of Kellyanne Conway for alleged Hatch Act violation (Tweet links to short note from OSC confirming a case will be opened.)
posted by Room 641-A at 3:32 PM on November 29, 2017 [32 favorites]

I was despairing because [INARTICULATE SCREAM OF RAGE] but then one of my ADAPT brothers messaged me from D.C., where they are fighting, fighting, fighting, cheerfully enraged. And I am reminded of what Starbuck said when the Cylons invaded New Caprica and was asked, 'What do we do?' And she responded, "We fight them until we can't."

We are going to fight these fuckers and hound them and they will die knowing that their names will be recorded in the shameful side of the ledger. We are going to win. We will suffer, some of us will die, but damn it, I was proud of this country for eight years and all that goodness will fight like the righteous fucking badasses we must become.

Do not despair, brothers and sisters.
posted by angrycat at 3:36 PM on November 29, 2017 [79 favorites]

Meanwhile, @ddale8: Trump points to people in the front when talking about how Congress needs to repeal the estate tax. He explains: "They love their children. They're very rich."

I just discovered that in addition to upvoting and bookmarking, that little + button makes a fine alternative to punching a hole in the wall.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 3:41 PM on November 29, 2017 [22 favorites]

Above, I wrote about the Danish Socialist landslide. In one of the municipalities, the Social Democrats ran on raising taxes and won. And this is not even close to Kansas, Denmark is one of the highest taxed countries in the world. Do not despair.
posted by mumimor at 3:47 PM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

Regarding the Coast Guard discussion upthread... As the Coast Guard is ranging futher it's detaining people in for months in improvised prisons.

So there you go. It's 2017.

Somebody shared the NYT piece on this with me yesterday. I'm horrified, I'm enraged, and I didn't know whether this might be worth its own FPP because what the fuck. My experience with arresting suspects at sea was to take them in & turn them over for booking and such immediately, but I was on a shorter-range ship. A friend with experience on the bigger vessels like this told me she's pretty stunned, too, because in her experience they might be held on board longer but they weren't treated like this. It's crazy.

I wanted to point out, though, that the examples cited by the NYT go back as far as 2014, so this isn't a Trump regime thing. John Kelly seems to have been a driving force behind the practice, so it's still relevant to who's in charge now.

Again, I'm just stunned. There are lots of big problems in the "war on drugs," but until now I never thought inhumane treatment by the Coast Guard was one of them.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:48 PM on November 29, 2017 [27 favorites]

The proposal they floated before for ending public service loan forgiveness wouldn't have been retroactive, and now there are current borrowers actually eligible to apply for it. Id imagine PROSPER or whatever also would only apply to new loans after the effective date. If you're eligible for forgiveness, or even think you might be one day, make sure you file an employer certification form and get yourself on record. If nothing else to establish yourself as a class member for the inevitable lawsuit. The IBR and other income based forgiveness will not have eligible participants for another decade, so who knows what they can get away with doing to those people.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:49 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

Remember this the next time you think RonJon's words mean anything.

@LauraLitvan: In a lightning-quick flip flop, Ron Johnson tells one of my reporter colleagues he’ll probably vote “no” to start debate on tax bill, says he hasn’t secured a change he wants. Then walks straight into the chamber and votes “yes”
posted by zachlipton at 3:54 PM on November 29, 2017 [47 favorites]

ABC, Political humorist identified as Roger Stone's link to WikiLeaks: Sources:

Former Trump adviser and longtime political troublemaker Roger Stone has been asked repeatedly how he knew, seemingly in advance, that WikiLeaks was going to publish damaging information about Hillary Clinton’s campaign. And he has repeatedly refused to answer, saying he had a “go-between” who did not wish to be named.

On Tuesday, however, Randy Credico, a New York comedian and political activist who hosts his own radio show, tweeted a picture of a congressional subpoena compelling him to appear on Dec. 15 before the House Intelligence Committee investigating Russian interference in the 2016 election. According to sources familiar with the investigation, Credico has been identified as the intermediary between Stone and WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange and will face questions from investigators about those relationships.

So what has Credico been saying on Twitter this year?

It's laughable how @democracynow has bought into the Stone / Assange nexus wild fiction ..#sensationalism , #McCarthyism @wikileaks

I have problems with Putin but not Russia I've got more problems w US thaN I have with Russia I've got more problems w NATO than with Russia

These didn't age well.
posted by zachlipton at 4:02 PM on November 29, 2017 [29 favorites]

Which will further make government less effective -- fewer public defenders, fewer VA medical staff at a time when GOPers have introduced legislation to speed up VA provider hiring, fewer teachers, and on and on

The GOP really, really, really, really, really hates an educated populace. As do all autocratic governments.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [13 favorites]

Ryan Mac, Buzzfeed: This Is The Man Who Deactivated The President’s Twitter Account

In his capacity working in user services, Duysak likely had administrator access to internal Twitter tools that would allow them to suspend or delete accounts. One former senior Twitter employee told BuzzFeed News that "a lot" of employees have the ability to suspend user accounts and hundreds have a level of access that would allow them to deactivate them. This former employee described Twitter’s account administration system as a dashboard, meaning employees might not need engineering skills to suspend or deactivate an account. “It's one click if you have the rights to access the tool" the person said.

The source also noted that Twitter was aware its suspension permissions could be abused, but did not change its protocol. "There was discussion that for verified accounts or high profile ones, there'd be special protections (i.e. "two keys") but it was never implemented," the person told BuzzFeed News. There do appear to be some limits. Another individual with knowledge of Twitter’s permissions system dispelled the notion that contract employees with administrator’s access can “become the user,” which would allow the employee to read Direct Messages and tweet as the account holder.

On Nov. 3, Twitter said it has “implemented safeguards to prevent this from happening again.” The company declined to share details on those safeguards.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 4:23 PM on November 29, 2017 [6 favorites]

This is great journalism, though I'm far from convinced this guy needs to have his life ruined by being named like this.
posted by zachlipton at 4:26 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

One former senior Twitter employee told BuzzFeed News that "a lot" of employees have the ability to suspend user accounts and hundreds have a level of access that would allow them to deactivate them.

I find this hard to believe, by virtue of the fact that trump's account has only been deactivated once.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:27 PM on November 29, 2017 [9 favorites]

I find this hard to believe, by virtue of the fact that trump's account has only been deactivated once.
posted by Atom Eyes at 8:27 AM on November 30 [3 favorites +] [!]

Not this guy, but I want someone's life ruined by the paucity of times.
posted by saysthis at 4:34 PM on November 29, 2017

zachlipton: "Remember this the next time you think RonJon's words mean anything.

@LauraLitvan: In a lightning-quick flip flop, Ron Johnson tells one of my reporter colleagues he’ll probably vote “no” to start debate on tax bill, says he hasn’t secured a change he wants. Then walks straight into the chamber and votes “yes”"

I just don't even understand the point of doing this. I get posturing in advance, and telling different audiences different slants. I don't see the point of outright lying in a highly visible fashion for no possible gain. He won't impress any voters, he wasn't bargaining for anything.
posted by Chrysostom at 4:36 PM on November 29, 2017 [7 favorites]

Ah, looks like TechCrunch scooped BuzzFeed, and the guy did an interview with them, Meet the man who deactivated Trump’s Twitter account

This is where Trump’s behavior intersects with Duysak’s work life. Someone reported Trump’s account on Duysak’s last day; as a final, throwaway gesture, he put the wheels in motion to deactivate it. Then he closed his computer and left the building.

Several hours later, the panic began. Duysak tells us that it started when he was approached by a woman whom he didn’t know very well. According to Duysak, the woman said that she had been contacted by someone asking about Duysak in connection with Trump’s Twitter account. After a moment of disbelief, he said he then looked at the news and realized what had happened.

Duysak describes the event as a “mistake.” Specifically, he told us, he never thought the account would actually get deactivated.

In fact, it appeared that Trump’s account was essentially protected from being deactivated over Terms of Service violations. In June, Twitter explained why: Some tweets that seemingly violate its terms of service are nevertheless “newsworthy” and therefore in the public interest to keep up.

There's a video with excerpts of the interview too. He's kind of vague, but describes it as a "mistake" and says "very low probabilities randomly occurred" on his last day of work that led to this. The piece mainly gives the impression that he's tired of reporters hounding him.
posted by zachlipton at 4:41 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

So what has Credico been saying on Twitter this year?

Life comes at you fast.
posted by Twain Device at 4:48 PM on November 29, 2017

Holy shit, he's terrorsplaining to the Prime Minister. Yeah, so much for that visit.

@realDonaldTrump
Theresa @theresamay, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing just fine!
posted by chris24 at 4:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [36 favorites]

Goddammit, I kind of enjoyed Credico's work on some of the comedy shows on WBAI (New York's Pacifica affiliate), but I suppose that, not unlike the station itself, Credico went down some weird, "alt-left" rabbit hole in the years since I moved out of the NY area (2006).

Well, screw it. We'll lose some fellow travelers along the way, but . . . ever forward.
posted by CommonSense at 4:52 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

Note that he tagged @theresamay, which belongs to some random person. The Prime Minister is @theresa_may.
posted by zachlipton at 4:57 PM on November 29, 2017 [65 favorites]

It's beginning to look a lot like Christ-mas...

Maryland, D.C. get subpoena power in Trump emoluments suit.

A federal judge Tuesday ordered President Trump’s business to preserve records related to a lawsuit brought by the Democratic attorneys general from Maryland and the District of Columbia that allege his private company has violated anti-corruption clauses in the Constitution.

posted by scalefree at 4:58 PM on November 29, 2017 [37 favorites]

>> In a lightning-quick flip flop, Ron Johnson tells one of my reporter colleagues he’ll probably vote “no” to start debate on tax bill, says he hasn’t secured a change he wants. Then walks straight into the chamber and votes “yes.”

> I just don't even understand the point of doing this. I get posturing in advance, and telling different audiences different slants. I don't see the point of outright lying in a highly visible fashion for no possible gain. He won't impress any voters, he wasn't bargaining for anything.

I have a guess, though I don't really know enough about how tactics in the Senate work to know if it's plausible. But anyway, when we killed the ACA repeal, one of the reasons why we succeeded was that the Republicans weren't able to get a reliable count, and they weren't able to get a reliable count because McCain was lying to them about how he was going to vote. So McConnell brought it to the floor prematurely, McCain did his thumbs-down thing, and the repeal died.

This time around they're trying to mess up attempts by the good side to peel off Republican Senators by having people who are definite "yes" votes throw out as much chaff as possible, so that the Democrats can't get a reliable count. They don't know who to target and they don't know how to target them, because there's a bunch of Senators who are not valid targets for persuasion but who are doing everything they can to make it seem like they are.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:06 PM on November 29, 2017 [21 favorites]

The WSJ obtained updated distributional tables for the Senate tax bill (also a version ignoring the effect of repealing the individual mandate). By 2027, more tax cuts for the rich, not so much for everyone else. These exclude the effects of repealing the estate tax, which provides a massive benefit to the most wealthy.

Politico, Annie Karni, John Kelly’s losing battle with Trump’s Twitter feed, in which Trump scrolls through his mentions looking for random stuff people tweet at him:

Twitter has allowed the president to continue accessing fringe websites and viewing racist videos simply by scanning his “mentions,” according to two former aides who have observed how he uses the site. Trump doesn’t use the direct-message function on the website, which would allow people he follows to privately share links with him — but he often looks at tweets that mention his handle, and picks up links and videos there.

The conversation on Twitter often then dictates his thinking. “Everybody’s talking about this,” he will tell his top aides in the West Wing, referring to a clip or an article he saw circulating among the small group of Twitter users he follows.

He's deleted the @theresamay tweet and replaced it with a new tweet @'ing the right person and has now moved on to screaming about something he heard on Fox, referring to himself in third person.
posted by zachlipton at 5:06 PM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

Ron Wyden D-OR is having a vote right now for submitting the bill back to the Senate Finance Committee for reworking. He is Ranking Member.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 5:07 PM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

So about that NYT Nazi guy...

WAPO - Nazi sympathizer profiled by the New York Times says he lost his job and — soon — his home


TLDR: There was backlash. The restaurant didn't know about his views. People started bugging them about it, calling etc. He and then his wife and brother in law were all fired. BiL after he said he held the same views. Now has to move out of house because of financial (can't afford it) and security reasons. He doesn't feel safe now cause people know where he lives.
Supporters start crowdfunding campaign to raise money cause he's 'being persecuted for beliefs.' by blah blah lefties and basements dwellers.
posted by Jalliah at 5:12 PM on November 29, 2017 [68 favorites]

CNN Exclusive: Jared Kushner met with special counsel about Flynn

Jared Kushner met earlier this month with Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team as part of the investigation into Russia's meddling in the election, according to two people familiar with the meeting.

Mueller's team specifically asked Kushner about former national security advisor Michael Flynn, who is under investigation by the special counsel, two sources said. Flynn was the dominant topic of the conversation, one of the sources said.

posted by zachlipton at 5:18 PM on November 29, 2017 [12 favorites]

The conversation lasted less than 90 minutes, one person familiar with the meeting said, adding that Mueller's team asked Kushner to clear up some questions he was asked by lawmakers and details that emerged through media reports. One source said the nature of this conversation was principally to make sure Kushner doesn't have information that exonerates Flynn.

Or that source is Kushner and the conversation was principally to get Kushner to incriminate himself.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:21 PM on November 29, 2017 [8 favorites]

Kushner better hope everything he told Mueller matches Flynn's plea deal, because Mueller would only offer that deal to move up the chain.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:22 PM on November 29, 2017 [18 favorites]

> WAPO - Nazi sympathizer profiled by the New York Times says he lost his job and — soon — his home.

what the wapo article doesn't mention is that the Dayton Socialists spearheaded the effort to get Hovater fired. Stormer types are furious about how one of their own got taken down by "commies."
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:25 PM on November 29, 2017 [73 favorites]

I find it hard to believe that Kushner, Mr "oops, sorry I forgot to disclose that piece of info" (x eleventy) was entirely truthful with Mueller. It goes completely against character at this point.
posted by Jalliah at 5:30 PM on November 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

You can bet good money that Mueller asked Kushner plenty of questions that he already knew the answers to just to give him a chance to lie to a Federal agent and make sure Kushner wouldn't actually have any idea what Mueller already knows.
posted by VTX at 5:40 PM on November 29, 2017 [53 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS:

** 2018 House:

-- As rumored Monday, Luis Gutierrez is not running for re-election for the Illinois 4th and has formally endorsed county commissioner Chuy Garcia, who did very well in the district in his recent mayoral run. Also running for the Dem nom is Dem Socialist Carlos Ramirez-Rosa. Ramirez-Rosa is a lot younger, a bit lefter, but also got himself in some Israel BDS controversy. That might not hurt him directly in a heavily Dem, heavily Hispanic district, but might cause issues with the national party. Gutierrez has said he is exploring running for president.

-- Over in IL-01, longtime rep Bobby Rush [D] has still has not filed for re-election, and Illinois has a deadline of Dec 4. Some speculation his son may run for the seat.

-- Dems lured in longtime target state Sen Jeff Van Drew to run in NJ-02, where Frank LoBiondo is retiring. District went narrowly Trump (51-46), but is seen as very competitive.

-- Local Republican leaders are pressuring Joe Barton [R-TX-06] not to run again after his maybe-not-unethical-but-definitely-gross sexts came to light last week. Barton is mulling options. The district is Likely R.

-- John Conyers [D-MI-13] is apparently going to announce he will not be seeking re-election in light of sexual harassment claims. The 13th is safe Dem (Clinton 79-18, Obama 85-14), so the seat should stay blue whether Conyers holds on until the election or not.

-- 538 guesstimates on what GOP retirements we might yet see. Obviously, this is without knowledge of any harassment that may yet come to light.

** 2018 Senate -- Don Blankenship intends to run for the GOP nom in WV to run against Manchin. Blankenship, you may recall, caused the death of 29 miners and scandalously only got a year in prison over it. Hard to say what he's thinking - Manchin is popular, and Blankenship is very much not - his favorables a year ago were 10/55.

** AL Senate special -- This stuff is over in the Moore thread. Two new polls, plus new evidence of Moore not being so hot on women.

** VA House -- News still being posted in the Election Day thread for now, but Dems have filed for recounts in HD-94 (10 vote deficit) and HD-40 (106 vote deficit). They may yet also file in HD-28 (82 vote deficit), which is the one where some voters got the wrong ballot. Still unclear what actions might take place related to HD-28 in court or the General Assembly.

** Odds & ends:

-- Dems have been looking for a candidate for TX governor. Dallas County Sheriff Lupe Valdez is now planning to run. Incumbent governor Abbott will be tough to dislodge, but a good top of ticket campaign can only help lower down candidates.

-- Tight race in the runoff for Atlanta mayor as Keisha Bottoms has a 42-39 lead over Mary Norwood. Some racial aspects here as Bottoms is black, Norwood is white, plus Bottoms is a Dem, Norwood an independent.

--The House had a hearing today on voting cybersecurity, which I confess I have not watched.

-- The GOP tax bill is really, really unpopular.

-- NY State Dems have apparently reached an accord with the breakaway IDC Dems that have let the GOP control the state Senate. Dems, including Cuomo, say that if this doesn't work out, they intend to primary the IDC members. If the accord holds, the Dems will have unified control of state government, and a lot of progressive legislation that has been bottlenecked can get attention.

-- A useful roundup from the Brennan Center of currently active gerrymandering legislation. There's a lot more than Gill v Whitford going on.

-- The judge reviewing the RNC consent degree about voter suppression declined to let the DNC request an evidentiary hearing on whether it had been violated, but is letting the DNC depose Sean Spicer on his actions last fall. As it stands, the decree expires Friday.

-- An initiative to automatically restore the voting rights of most felons in Florida is doing well, having collected about 900k signatures so far. About 766k valid signatures are needed. FL disenfranchises almost 10% of its adult population currently.

-- Dems trying to attract young candidates with free training program. Can't hurt to try.

-- Ned Lamont may be running for CT gov. Remember him? Remember Markos Moulitsas popping his shirt in an ad? Oh God, I'm old.

posted by Chrysostom at 5:41 PM on November 29, 2017 [60 favorites]

re: new fed chair...whatevs, they'll do what they always do - as soon as there's upward pressure on wages, they'll goose the interest rate. ugggh.
posted by j_curiouser at 6:22 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jefferson Beauregard "Buzzkill" Sessions hints at flipping the weed-legal table (US News & WR, Alan Neuhauser, 2017-11-29)

Sessions said that the department is looking "very hard right now" at a directive carried over from the Obama administration that effectively encourages federal prosecutors to generally defer to state laws that legalize marijuana use.

"We had meetings yesterday and talked about it at some length," the attorney general said, speaking at a press conference on new measures to combat opioid abuse. "It's my view that the use of marijuana is detrimental, and we should not give encouragement in any way to it, and it represents a federal violation, which is in the law and it's subject to being enforced, and our priorities will have to be focused on all the things and challenges we face."

Also he did the treason, but that's not in the article.
posted by petebest at 6:38 PM on November 29, 2017 [24 favorites]

"...our priorities will have to be focused on all the things and challenges we face." That's not how you prioritize!
posted by ElKevbo at 6:43 PM on November 29, 2017 [14 favorites]

** 2018 Senate -- Don Blankenship intends to run for the GOP nom in WV to run against Manchin. Blankenship, you may recall, caused the death of 29 miners and scandalously only got a year in prison over it. Hard to say what he's thinking - Manchin is popular, and Blankenship is very much not - his favorables a year ago were 10/55.

Read his Wikipedia page;

The guy literally poisoned his own town's water supply, and got a water pipe run from elsewhere, to his house, and just to his house.
posted by ocschwar at 6:49 PM on November 29, 2017 [48 favorites]

That we had $20M go into Tom Steyer's impeachment ads rather than, say, fighting this tax bill is profound political malpractice. McConnell's admission that he "misspoke" when he promised no tax cuts for the middle class should be on every TV set in this country. Same for the distributional analysis showing that this plan will increase taxes for millions of middle class Americans. Or the cut to Medicare this tax bill will produce.

What's the point in spending billions of dollars in political ads in this country if they've never once about the things that matter? (I know, I know, look at who pays for the ads.)
posted by zachlipton at 6:49 PM on November 29, 2017 [23 favorites]

This timeline gets weirder and weirder.

NYT Style: What to Wear to Smash the State
Anti-fascist activists believe in dressing or the job they want. Right now, many think, that job is punching Nazis.

“Cops wear camouflage when they arrest people in city drug raids,” said Ben, a Bay Area activist. “But they’re in a city. It doesn’t help them, but it makes them look more intimidating.” Ben says he has participated in protests since 2000, including Bush/Gore, Occupy Oakland and Black Lives Matter. (The Times agreed to use only his first name because of the threat of harassment, online or otherwise, by activists.) “A group of people all dressed in black can be intimidating,” he said.

Is that intimidation the motive or just a benefit? Do black bloc practitioners dress up because, as many progressives wonder, they want to commit crimes? What do they get out of “masking up”? Where does uniform merge with tactic?
posted by Jalliah at 6:53 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

Tom Steyer presumably spent his own money on impeachment ads.

The problem is that the people we're trying to convince aren't swayed by patient explanations of the facts. If you're explaining, you're losing.
posted by Merus at 6:54 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

He could have kicked a half mil to McCaskill's campaign. Trump was in my area-ish today and bagged on her.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:07 PM on November 29, 2017 [1 favorite]

CNN Exclusive: Jared Kushner met with special counsel about Flynn

One source said the nature of this conversation was principally to make sure Kushner doesn't have information that exonerates Flynn.

That's a pretty great headline for Team Kushner. I wonder if they had anything to do with sourcing CNN?
posted by pjenks at 7:08 PM on November 29, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump veers past guardrails, feeling impervious to the uproar he causes (WaPo)

This is one of the more depressing reads I've had in a while because...it just kills me that, on top of the utter turmoil he's put our country through, Trump thinks he can do whatever the hell he wants. And apparently he's right, and his own party is to blame. (The article title on the front page is more delightful: "Trump believes he can stir the pot without ever getting burned".)

Again and again, Trump veered far past the guardrails of presidential behavior. But despite the now-routine condemnations, the president is acting emboldened, as if he were impervious to the uproar he causes.

If there are consequences for his actions, Trump does not seem to feel their burden personally. The Republican tax bill appears on track for passage, putting the president on the cusp of his first major legislative achievement. Trump himself remains the highest profile man accused of sexual improprieties to keep his job with no repercussions.

Trump has internalized the belief that he can largely operate with impunity, people close to him said. His political base cheers him on. Fellow Republican leaders largely stand by him. His staff scrambles to explain away his misbehavior — or even to laugh it off. And the White House disciplinarian, chief of staff John F. Kelly, has said it is not his job to control the president.

posted by Salieri at 7:37 PM on November 29, 2017 [32 favorites]

Sessions said that the department is looking "very hard right now" at a directive carried over from the Obama administration that effectively encourages federal prosecutors to generally defer to state laws that legalize marijuana use.

Hasn’t he been saying that all along? Googling “Sessions States’ Rights” serves up countless op-eds written more or less constantly all year long about how hypocritical that very stance of his is, especially vis-à-vis his support of state bathroom laws.
posted by Sys Rq at 7:49 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

>CNN Exclusive: Jared Kushner met with special counsel about Flynn

That's a pretty great headline for Team Kushner. I wonder if they had anything to do with sourcing CNN?

Hmm... Kushner's legal team and/or cronies leaking to the press in order to send signals to other parties among the Trumpists they'd ordinarily be restricted from direct communication to prevent coordination, you say?

And when CNN added "It's not clear that this is the only time that Kushner will meet with the special counsel's team." wasn't that just a big red flare?
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:55 PM on November 29, 2017 [5 favorites]

What has the timing been like with those stories previously? My hypothesis is that isn't another diversion tactic to distract from some problem. Sessions has rattled this saber a few times without actually doing anything. Even if it is a distraction doesn't mean it's not still a real threat though since it's 2017.
posted by VTX at 7:58 PM on November 29, 2017

The Daily 202: Trump keeps giving in-kind contributions to Elizabeth Warren’s 2020 campaign-in-waiting (WaPo)

People close to the White House argue that there’s a method to the “Pocahontas” madness. Trump would like to face Warren in 2020 because he thinks he could caricature her as an out-of-touch liberal from Taxachusetts. His allies argue that she’d be an ideal foil to get recalcitrant Republicans to support him as the lesser of two evils ...

But Trump might want to be more careful about what he wishes for. Remember, the Clinton campaign elevated Trump during the 2016 GOP primaries because her strategists thought he’d be so easy to beat. Jimmy Carter’s team thought the same of Ronald Reagan in 1980.

posted by ZeusHumms at 7:59 PM on November 29, 2017 [4 favorites]

10 Good Things President Carter Did

He also pushed through a ton of good government reforms, from reforms limiting FBI and CIA abuses to the Government in the Sunshine Act, zero-based budgeting, sunsets on tax breaks and other programs, etc. And that whole renewable energy and conservation business.
posted by msalt at 8:24 PM on November 29, 2017 [16 favorites]

GhostintheMachine: "
Please tell me this is not a common belief. A US carpet-bombing campaign would not be a drawn out war? What about the reactions of China and South Korea? You don't think the Koreans will consider reunification (either forced or popular uprising)? You don't think China or Russia will be upset with US actions? Are the examples of Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya not enough to say that a forced elimination of autocratic rulers doesn't end peacefully or quickly?"

Of course those things. But I'd bet the Cheeto is convinced that the US can just unilaterally drop a few hundred bunker busters on North Korea (because someone over their insulted his hair or whatever) and then just walk away. The only thing he sees as a threat is an ICBM; millions of rounds of artillery targeting Seoul doesn't even twitch his threat awareness. Completely ignoring the loss of South Korea and the massive destabilizing hit to the region. In his vision all those things happen to other brown people in a place far away and they won't be spending any time or money on it past hoisting the Mission Accomplished Banner.
posted by Mitheral at 8:34 PM on November 29, 2017 [3 favorites]

ABC, Political humorist identified as Roger Stone's link to WikiLeaks: Sources

There's a bit of smoke in the wind about Credico as the intermediary Stone and Assange. Assange said this to Hannity in a Fox interview back in January:

HANNITY: There was a report that you might have talked to somebody who was not associated with the campaign, Roger Stone.

ASSANGE: No, that's false. I think where this Roger Stone claim is coming from is there's a -- a radio guy on WBAI, which is a mutual friend, who was -- who wanted to come and see me to see if I would set up a radio show on WBAI, but he didn't. He did come to London, but he didn't meet with me.

Also, it's possible that Stone's habitual mendacity in this instance and others could cause him legal problems later:

Ryan Lizza‏ @RyanLizza

I asked Roger Stone in March if Randy Credico was his Wikileaks contact and he lied to me and said no. He just texted me, “A misguided effort to protect Credico who I felt had helped me on an off the record basis. Sorry.” Many reporters use Stone as a Trump source. Beware.

Renato Mariotti‏ @renato_mariotti

If Stone is charged with a crime, his false statements to journalists and others could be used against him.[...]

Two ways:

1) If he takes the stand, he can be asked about these matters and then can be confronted with prior statements if he changes his story.

2) His prior statements can be used as direct evidence if they are relevant to the offense. A defendant’s statements are admissible.

posted by Doktor Zed at 9:17 PM on November 29, 2017 [19 favorites]

The Guardian has a nicely presented list of some of the sexual assault / rape allegations against Trump, in chronological order (“1980s” - 2013).

Someone upthread mentioned that it’s hard to keep track of the various scandals, even the ones that should result in arrest - if I was capable of doing more than typing comments into boxes, I would look to turn my skills into a frequently updated website showing the various timelines of The Best People and their scandals, with a sourcing policy similar to wikipedia where you can point each piece of the jigsaw to an article in a reputable newspaper.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 12:09 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Not to abuse the edit window, but you would hope that every major media outlet has one of these stuck up on the wall already, and you know Mueller has a huge one with lots of red thread and post-its, like the crayon map in Stranger Things. It just seems like a fairly easy win to produce one of these as an open-source resource for anyone, from people who want to argue with relatives or office mates, to journalists who may have missed something significant and not as blatant as the “grab em by the pussy” denial among the embarrassment of riches that this administration produces.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 12:17 AM on November 30, 2017

Someone upthread mentioned that it’s hard to keep track of the various scandals, even the ones that should result in arrest

There's https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpInvestigation/wiki/doc/ which may be up to date.

And the washingtonpost's tool, but I can't find it on mobile just now.
posted by sebastienbailard at 12:51 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

The guy literally poisoned his own town's water supply, and got a water pipe run from elsewhere, to his house, and just to his house.

The GOP is about to elect a child molester to the Senate, why not a mass murderer?
posted by zombieflanders at 3:23 AM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

Many were not happy...

Britain woke up on Thursday morning to find the British-American special relationship under threat after Donald Trump launched a scathing overnight attack on Theresa May, dismissively telling her not to criticise him.

'Evil racist': how the UK reacted to Trump's Theresa May Twitter attack
posted by Mister Bijou at 3:44 AM on November 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

This morning, John Bercow, the UK's Speaker of the House of Commons, granted the Commons the tabling of an Urgent Question by Labour MP Stephen Doughty. Would Britain's Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, make a statement on the activities of Britain First, online hate speech, and the sharing of inflammatory content by the President of the United States, @realDonaldTrump?

Yes, yes she would (Grauniad summary)
posted by Mister Bijou at 4:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

There are a lot of very pissed-off people in the UK right now, and those fucking retweets are the crystallisation of that which burns us.

If that visit ever goes ahead, I can guarantee that the crowds which greet 45 will not be cheering. And there will be crowds.
posted by Devonian at 4:50 AM on November 30, 2017 [53 favorites]

Roger Wicker, the junior senator from Mississippi, has a graphic up on Facebook today that's given me apoplexy. It's a particularly Hitlarian picture of Trump with the statement, "I have one of the highest voting records in support of President Trump's policies," and "96.2%, highest in the Senate." He posted this to defend (defend!!) his record from Steve Bannon who wants him primaried by the Master of Smirk, Chris McDaniel. Looks like we are in for a rousing game of No, I'M The Worst! and I am so. Tired.
(Some poor man has posted a plaintive comment, "I'm hearing the tax bill doesn't help retirees much and I'm worried. Can you say something about that?" It's gone unanswered, of course, and I don't have it in me to gently (or otherwise) tell that man how little of a shit Roger Wicker gives.)
posted by thebrokedown at 4:51 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

If Trump wasn't obviously addle-brained and narcissistic I'd be concerned his spat with Theresa May was engineered to improve her standing with the UK public. Instead, I have to go with bluster from a man who is slowly realizing just how fucked he is. Unfortunately, the anger stage is not yet upon us, this has all been denial so far.
posted by wierdo at 4:57 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

bluster from a man who is slowly realizing just how fucked he is

There is just no way Trump realizes how fucked he is. At this point we don't actually have any idea how fucked he is. He might not be fucked at all! We're almost certainly fucked.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:35 AM on November 30, 2017 [54 favorites]

Just thought I'd share this video clip via Twitter of an Islamophobic caller being beautifully dealt with on a London local radio station today. Talk radio may have its own inglorious part in the long history of recent hatreds, but it ain't necessarily so.
posted by Devonian at 5:57 AM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

James O'Brien is a national treasure.

Thank you to whoever it was that drew my attention to O'Brien on political correctness which is also a little gem.
posted by flabdablet at 6:07 AM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

timestep I literally don't know what to do next. [...] To be clear, I'm not despairing—I'm honestly asking if there's something I've overlooked, because I am out of ideas. And I can't stand the thought of telling my now-three-year-old someday that I didn't fight hard enough. What is the next step for your average Jane or Joe here?

Try not to obsess over whether you've done enough. You've fought, you're continuing to fight, and that's what matters most. Sometimes, you lose despite fighting as hard as you can, and that may be where we're at with the Republican tax increase bill.

If you aren't part of Postcards to Voters you might consider joining up, it's kind of fun in an arts and crafts sort of way and may actually have an effect on the outcome of the Alabama election.
posted by sotonohito at 6:26 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

"May says Trump 'wrong' to etweet tweets from far-right group Britain First". (By the by, 'etweet', yet another typo by the Grauniad.)

Anyway, the UK prime minister Theresa May is currently in Jordan. She's taken time out for a Q&A.

Main points of said Q&A.
posted by Mister Bijou at 6:36 AM on November 30, 2017

Can someone more legally familiar than me explain the ins and outs of this tweet?

OMG, are you stupid? You just blew apart two different cases your DOJ is defending against me. I’m going to take you apart, Mr. President.
posted by Artw at 6:45 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Artw: Here you go. He submitted a FOIA request, got a GLOMAR (can neither confirm nor deny) in response. But President is now acknowledging the existence of documents by tweet.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:49 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

White House Envisions Tillerson Ouster From State Dept., to Be Replaced by Pompeo, Within Weeks Breaking NYTimes.
posted by mumimor at 6:53 AM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

Kellyanne Conway will lead the White House effort to combat opioid addiction as the new Opioid Czar.

JFC.
posted by Talez at 6:53 AM on November 30, 2017 [26 favorites]

Tom Cotton to replace Pompeo. This is the dark place.
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:56 AM on November 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

What are doing now and is there anyplace you think you could do more of what you're already doing?

I think all of us want to DO something and it doesn't feel like we're really doing anything. There is a ton of evidence that all the calls, faxes, protests, donations, post cards, etc. etc. etc. are all working and working quite well. But it's not satisfying in the way that seeing Trump perp walked would be satisfying or massive blue wave in 2018 would be.

So mostly what I do is try to do just a little more than I have been. 18 or so months ago I just voted in every election and really researched every item on the ballot. I dipped my toes in the more politically active waters by knocking on doors for the HRC campaign. I've replaced that with sending faxes, e-mails, and making calls to my reps. At least every week and often every day.

Every time I feel despair and wish I could do more, I find something small and just do a little more. So I've since started making some small donations (I'm a card-carrying member of the ACLU now!) to campaigns and causes if when I see fit. I expect I'll donate a little more as we get closer to 2018. I'm taking election day off in 2018 to drive people to the polls and I'll probably knock on doors again.

I'm really an introvert so I don't like activities that involve a lot of talking to strangers and that's okay. Someone else who likes talking to strangers can do that stuff, I'll just keep looking for the things that I feel like I can do and just try to do a more of that kind of thing.

If I keep on trying to "try to do a little more" every time I feel like I'm not doing enough, eventually I'll end up working on someone's campaign or running for office myself. If you're already doing a LOT, that might be about the only thing you can do to "try to do a little more".

You don't really even need to succeed, just try. If everyone of us tries, some of us will be successful and it'll be enough. There are a LOT of us and a lot of little things add up to a bunch of really BIG things.
posted by VTX at 6:56 AM on November 30, 2017 [34 favorites]

Who are they going to fill Pompeo's position at the CIA with, Stephen Miller or something? That's what really unnerves me about this.

Oh maybe now since Jared is done with the Opioid problem he can head up the CIA
posted by localhuman at 6:56 AM on November 30, 2017

Wait, I thought Jared Kushner was fixing that problem?

Pod Save America described moving projects from Kushner's purview as removing empty file folder from an unoccupied office. Because he hasn't done anything on anything.
posted by leotrotsky at 6:59 AM on November 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

Tom Cotton to replace Pompeo. This is the dark place.

But it also means special election in Arkansas, right?

Also, how well do you think the CIA will receive mutinous Tom Cotton? Pompeo was bad enough.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:01 AM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

There is just no way Trump realizes how fucked he is.
Trump's allies and aides think he has dementia: maybe news.

So, while I think it is possible that T has dementia, I have heard from quite a few mental health professionals in the field of cluster B personality disorders that he is a malignant narcissist who is currently decompensating. (I know, porque no los dos - and I agree, it may very well be both.)
posted by Sophie1 at 7:04 AM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

So another Republican Senate seat up for grabs in 2018? That's not a bad thing. I know it's Arkansas but I think that every race is going to be competitive next year.
posted by octothorpe at 7:07 AM on November 30, 2017

I wonder if an open Arkansas Senate seat be a Republican lock in 2018. Particularly if there's a wave election.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:08 AM on November 30, 2017

Re: Tilerson being pushed out at state-

I recall someone mentioning on the blue that Tilerson wanted to serve at least a year to retain some sort of benefits (from his previous job?) that he would lose were he not to serve a full year. Anyone able to provide any links/citations for this?
posted by andruwjones26 at 7:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Under Arkansas state law, Gov. Asa Hutchinson, a Republican, would appoint a replacement who could serve until the 2018 election. If Mr. Cotton stayed in the Senate, his seat would not be up for election again until 2020.

Also, if I remember right, Asa Hutchinson is significantly less insane than Tom Cotton. I wouldn't be surprised if his appointment is more establishment and less drink the Kool-Aid. Particularly given the fear Republicans have about 2018.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:12 AM on November 30, 2017

That's dependent on Hutchinson being able to actually find a non-insane Republican who's willing to serve in the Senate.
posted by octothorpe at 7:22 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Tillerson might not be great (he's not great), but he's not-great in a way that favors political and military stability (for good, or often for ill); Pompeo is not great in all sorts of ways. He's also not at all qualified. The only think worse would be if Tom Cotton was replacing Tillerson at State, with Pomepeo staying at the CIA.

I think it's possible that a former Army officer is likely to have much more understanding of and respect for the State Department than an former oil exec.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:22 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Tilerson wanted to serve at least a year to retain some sort of benefits

The issue has to do with the tax hit from selling off assets in order to eliminate conflicts of interest. To join the administration you have to sell assets or put them in a blind trust. Normally there's a tax hit for that, but the tax implications are reduced if you stay at the job for a year or so (to prevent people from taking a cabinet position just to get a tax boondoggle).
posted by dis_integration at 7:23 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

_{(some deets on the above)}
posted by dis_integration at 7:25 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Tillerson out is an unqualified good if it at all stems the bleeding at State. Pompeo is an insane right wing Christian zealot and dominionist war monger, but there’s no evidence he’s been paid by Putin to destroy American diplomacy. That counts as an improvement.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:27 AM on November 30, 2017 [14 favorites]

What are doing now and is there anyplace you think you could do more of what you're already doing?

I think all of us want to DO something and it doesn't feel like we're really doing anything.

I feel like I'm doing something. There's a constant itch to do more, of course, but I have learned all sorts of ways to get involved and am pursuing them. I know there are many other MeFites who are active in different ways than I am.

Perhaps we could use the PoliticsFilter Slack to share ideas, give each other encouragement, etc.
posted by galaxy rise at 7:28 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

I think it's possible that a former Army officer is likely to have much more understanding of and respect for the State Department than an former oil exec.

Counterpoint: John Kelly.
posted by dirigibleman at 7:34 AM on November 30, 2017 [35 favorites]

There’s a lot of confusion around the requirements for asset divestiture for admin hires, and the requirement that the job be held for a year before those privileges kick in for reals (those privileges being no cap gains tax paid on the forced sale of conflicting assets if the funds go to treasury bonds or index funds where there is no conflict). There is no year requirement. And the tax break is a deferral, not a break; the tax basis of the old assets transfers to the new ones, and will be collected when those are eventually sold. (marketwatch link).

The wait for a year stuff may come up in discussion as iirc, the law disallows this treatment for assets sold prior to taking the job for some period (this is hurting Scaramucci; he sold assets in anticipation of an admin job months before he actually got one, and wanted to include those assets. iirc. It’s in a long comment of mine in a dusty old megathread. ).
posted by notyou at 7:37 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

From this very thread -- "[Tom Cotton] organized a letter to Iran to undermine the nuclear deal, he denied an ambassador appointment just to piss off Obama and explicitly said so (and the appointee died before the matter was resolved), and he says the problem with Gitmo is it isn't full enough."

This is the guy they want to put in charge of the CIA? Gives me chills.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:40 AM on November 30, 2017 [40 favorites]

I recall, on the Blue, a few discussions that Trump appointees wanted to stay on for a year then ditch. However, iirc the reasoning was just that it looks good on a resume. Leave prior to a year you look like a quitter, stay a year+ you stuck it out, yadda yaadda.

(note, these views are not mine, nor do I think they were the opinion of anyone here, rather this was the reasoning used by the appointees in question)
posted by Twain Device at 7:40 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

...and I'm sure the folks at CIA hate him.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:41 AM on November 30, 2017

Also, how well do you think the CIA will receive mutinous Tom Cotton? Pompeo was bad enough.

Tom Cotton is an actively cruel person. Installing him at the CIA is nothing short of an endorsement of torture, "renditions," and every other bad thing we've ever heard about the agency.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:43 AM on November 30, 2017 [22 favorites]

CIA Director is a Senate Confirmed position. I'm gonna call my senators now and ask that they under no circumstances vote to confirm Tom Cotton as CIA director.
posted by OnceUponATime at 7:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [22 favorites]

So Pompey was in the spook biz for 10 months? Do we think he got read into anything outside of "pssst - Israel as-hay ukes-nay. *wink*"?

It seems like Special Access Programs that have absconded with no-shit fucking trillions of dollars might be more off the leash than normal, y'know?

Hey this is fun though, "... we can no longer allow Assange and his colleagues the latitude to use free speech values against us. To give them the space to crush us with misappropriated secrets is a perversion of what our great Constitution stands for. It ends now. ... Assange and his ilk make common cause with dictators today. Yes, they try unsuccessfully to cloak themselves and their actions in the language of liberty and privacy; in reality, however, they champion nothing but their own celebrity. Their currency is clickbait; their moral compass, nonexistent. Their mission: personal self-aggrandizement through the destruction of Western values."[63] - Mike P., April, 2017
posted by petebest at 7:48 AM on November 30, 2017

This New Yorker profile of Tom Cotton gives some context for imagining what he might be like as a CIA director.

“Let there be no doubt about this point,” Cotton said, in a recent speech to the Council on Foreign Relations. “If we are forced to take action, the United States has the ability to totally destroy Iran’s nuclear infrastructure. And, if they choose to rebuild it, we could destroy it again, until they get the picture. Nor should we hesitate if compelled to take military action.” In describing his preferred approach to negotiations with Iran, Cotton said, “One thing I learned in the Army is that when your opponent is on his knees you drive him to the ground and choke him out.” In response, a questioner pointed out that killing a prisoner of war is not “American practice.” (It is, in fact, a war crime.)
posted by Dr. Send at 7:53 AM on November 30, 2017 [24 favorites]

CNN last year: Sen. Tom Cotton: Waterboarding isn't torture

Blitzer reminded Cotton of his colleague Sen. John McCain, who himself was tortured as a POW during the Vietnam War, and says that torture is a violation of the Geneva Conventions and International Law. "On this one, I disagree," Cotton said, "Anything that American troops volunteer for, and radio DJs volunteer for, is not torture. If it has to be done to save American lives, that's a tough call."

According to Trump, being kidnapped, tortured and killed in Niger is something that American troops volunteer for, so why shouldn't we do it to suspected terrorists who sometimes turn out to be random innocent civilians? Cotton would likely be the most psychopathic CIA chief of all time and we can only hope for literal mutiny in its ranks.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:01 AM on November 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

McCain just McCained:

@frankthorp: MCCAIN: “After careful thought and consideration, I have decided to support the Senate tax reform bill.”
posted by zombieflanders at 8:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [24 favorites]

I can't find a good answer for this, do the Marshallese in Arkansas have voting rights?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:14 AM on November 30, 2017

The Hill: San Juan mayor: GOP tax bill would be worse for Puerto Rico than hurricanes

Among other anti-PR provisions, the bill passed by the House includes a 20% excise tax on payments made by companies on the mainland to their subsidiary businesses in Puerto Rico, which is exactly what they need when half the country lacks electricity. San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz says this will "obliterate" the economy, half of which consists of manufacturing.

I'm trying to work out if this provision is also in the Senate bill but not having any luck. Anyone help?
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:15 AM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

I can't find a good answer for this, do the Marshallese in Arkansas have voting rights?

Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation: A major integration challenge lies in the lack of US citizenship and permanent residency for first-generation Marshall Islanders. Lack of citizenship status prevents voting in Arkansas and thus slows civic integration.

Looks like many Marshall Islanders can apply for American citizenship but choose to save their money since they already have the right to live and work in the USA.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:18 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

So the tax bill still has to go to conference, right? It doesn't go to Trump after the Senate?

If that's the case, can it go the way of Obamacare repeal? At this point, it seems like every single GOP senator needs coverage with the Kochs, etc, to show that they voted for it, but then in theory the mere process of conference could fail, right?
posted by Frowner at 8:22 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

"On this one, I disagree," Cotton said, "Anything that American troops volunteer for, and radio DJs volunteer for, is not torture. If it has to be done to save American lives, that's a tough call."

It rules that the "counter-torture" training which some soldiers undertake in order to learn how to torture prisoners is now also the justification for torturing those prisoners. It also rules that McMaloney and the Bugg's dumb waterboarding stunts for 105.5 WHAK, which almost always confirm, to the sound of springs and old car horns, that it is, in fact, torture, can also justify war crimes.
posted by Rustic Etruscan at 8:22 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Following CNN's decision to skip the White House Christmas Party, we find out they simply didn't invite April Ryan, for the first time in 20 years. “I don’t think I was overlooked,” she said. “I think they don’t like me. For whatever reason, they have disdain for me.”

I just wanted to amplify this from zachlipton's comment above. If every single white House reporter doesn't boycott this I will boycott them.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

Conference or the House decides to vote on the Senate version.
posted by notyou at 8:24 AM on November 30, 2017

agatha_magatha: Dump was all about making investing in infrastructure during his campaign--where is it?

Trump's missing infrastructure plan (Jonathan Swan for Axios, Nov. 26, 2017)

In early April — nearly eight months ago — President Trump told the New York Times: "[W]e're going to have a very big infrastructure plan. And bill. And it's going to come soon. And I think we'll have support from Democrats and Republicans."

It's late November, and we're still waiting.

Summary: there are meetings, but despite infrastructure being part of his vague first 100 day plan (much of which didn't actually happen within those first 100 days), this might come after the tax bill, or not, if Trump instead pushes on health care again. Also, infrastructure isn't likely something to get Republicans to the polls so ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Stepping back and looking ahead more broadly: Trump doesn’t know what’s next after taxes -- Still smarting from the failure of Obamacare repeal and focused on taxes, the White House hasn't worked out its next big-ticket item as 2018 looms. (Eliana Johnson, Andrew Restuccia and Ben White for Politico, Nov. 27, 2017)

White House policy initiatives are typically planned months in advance, with congruent strategies for communications and a view toward working them through Congress. But there is little agreement between White House officials and Republican leaders on the Hill about what should follow tax reform.

Over the course of conversations with nearly a dozen senior aides in the White House and on Capitol Hill, a range of possibilities surfaced, from welfare reform to the infrastructure program President Donald Trump touted on the campaign trail to revisiting Obamacare repeal — an effort that has twice frustrated the Trump administration.

Yeah, so 2018 looks like Trump vs ACA, round 3. Because that went so well with Republicans. It was still a top priority for GOP voters, per a POLITICO-Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health poll from early September 2017. But let's not defund Obamacare without a plan to replace it, per a July 2017 POLITICO/Morning Consult poll. So ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ... again/ still/ forever.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:28 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Has any previous administration had this many shake-ups? I'm curious how this compares historically.
posted by misterpatrick at 8:28 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

So the tax bill still has to go to conference, right? It doesn't go to Trump after the Senate?

If that's the case, can it go the way of Obamacare repeal? At this point, it seems like every single GOP senator needs coverage with the Kochs, etc, to show that they voted for it, but then in theory the mere process of conference could fail, right?

Yes on all counts, since the House and Senate bills don't match.

Now the conference has the task of smashing these two rancid sausages together and coming up with something that will placate both the Freedom Caucus hyenas and the bought-off senators. Given the screaming from all of their benefactors to Cut Those Taxes Now Now Now, something will emerge that enough holdouts grab their noses and Aye, but it will be interesting (in the way that Mussolini was also interesting) to see what gets trimmed.
posted by delfin at 8:30 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Jonathan Pie speaks for many Brits. - Enough is Enough
posted by adamvasco at 8:38 AM on November 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

CSPAN STREAM All day floor debate and vote-a-rama in the senate.

side note: I really wish SomaFM would run floor debate over an ambient track. That would be awesome. Especially when the clerk is recording votes or calling roll. Beep beep Mr. Durbin boop boop Mr Durbin NO beep beep Mr. Hoeven boop boop Mr Hoeven AYE beep beep boop boop Mr Thune...
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:40 AM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) said early Thursday that she expects legislation to lower health-care premiums to pass Congress before senators take a final vote on a $1.5 trillion tax-reform bill that would repeal the Affordable Care Act's individual mandate.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:42 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

I recall someone mentioning on the blue that Tilerson wanted to serve at least a year to retain some sort of benefits (from his previous job?) that he would lose were he not to serve a full year.

That may have been discussed during Tillerson's "moron" brouhaha back in October. The underlying issue is that Trump and Exxon helped Tillerson put off a $71 Million tax bill through a complicated deferral scheme, which could be scuppered if he left before he'd served a year or went back into the oil industry. "A quirk in the way the deal was structured will allow Tillerson, at least for now, to avoid over $71 million in taxes. With the deal, Tillerson can move his money, now locked up in the value of Exxon’s stock, which right now accounts for about half of Tillerson’s total wealth, according to a financial disclosure form Tillerson filed on Wednesday, into diversified mutual funds—potentially an even bigger benefit, since his financial well being won’t be so closely tied to just one company. And again, he gets to do that without incurring taxes, at least for now."

So Pompey was in the spook biz for 10 months? Do we think he got read into anything outside of "pssst - Israel as-hay ukes-nay. *wink*"?

If only. Pompeo has been carrying water for Team Trump his entire tenure. Per the Washington Post, "As CIA director, Mike Pompeo has taken a special interest in an agency unit that is closely tied to the investigation into possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, requiring the Counterintelligence Mission Center to report directly to him. [...] [One] former CIA official cited a 'real concern for interference and politicization,' saying that the worry among some at the agency is 'that if you were passing on something too dicey [to Pompeo] he would go to the White House with it.'?"

Tillerson out is an unqualified good if it at all stems the bleeding at State. Pompeo is an insane right wing Christian zealot and dominionist war monger, but there’s no evidence he’s been paid by Putin to destroy American diplomacy.

Would the State Department be better off with Rex Tillerson fiddling with PowerPoint while the world burns or Tom Cotton answering to his longtime financial backers, the Koch brothers, and his political paragon, Donald Trump? (n.b. Cotton was an early supporter of Tillerson's nomination and has been running interference for Trump in the Senate Intelligence Committee's investigations into Russian's election meddling.) Something something the devil you know something something.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:43 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Does Tillerson have some sort of obligation to the Russians to fill for his Rosneft money to come in? Is he just wrapping that shady deal up?
posted by fluttering hellfire at 8:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

So I just tried calling McCain, and I couldn’t get through on any line (mailbox full or line busy for every office ). So I called Flake instead and basically said I hope he’s smarter than McCain. (Sigh).
posted by nat at 8:48 AM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

Mod note: CSPAN STREAM All day floor debate and vote-a-rama in the senate.

In the spirit of our current effort to reset expectations about megathread discussions, I want to note that

1. A constrained set of comments summing up / digesting key substantial chunks of those goings-on would be fine for the thread here.
2. One-linery liveblogging of the stream is something I'm gonna ask people to avoid.
3. If there's chatter-worthy stuff and people want a place to sorta mst3k congress in real time, popping into Chat.metafilter.com is a good solution.
4. In any case I do genuinely love that MetaFilter is a place where I have to stop and plan ahead because people might get over-excited about C-SPAN content. Thank you all for being you.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:52 AM on November 30, 2017 [75 favorites]

It's not just April Ryan:

Black and LGBT reporters respond after being left off White House Christmas party guest list for first time in years (Emily Shugerman, Independent UK)

It was Thanksgiving day when Chris Johnson, the chief political and White House reporter for the Washington Blade, learned he hadn’t been invited to the annual White House holiday party for the press.

Mr Johnson, a reporter for the nation’s oldest LGBTQ paper, had attended every such party for the last seven years. He assumed this year’s invitation hadn’t gone out yet, until he heard other reporters discussing them over the Thanksgiving holiday.

“My first reaction was I assumed it must have been an oversight,” Mr Johnson told The Independent.

He emailed the White House to enquire about his invitation, but was bounced between spokespeople. He never received an invitation, and never got an explanation as to why. [...]

CNN, meanwhile, has decided to boycott the event entirely. In a statement on Tuesday, a CNN spokesperson said it would be inappropriate for the network’s reporters to attend, “in light of the President’s continued attacks on freedom of the press and CNN”.

White House Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders responded by tweeting: “Christmas comes early! Finally, good news from @CNN.”

Sarah Huckabee Sanders is a sentient pile of shit.
posted by Room 641-A at 8:55 AM on November 30, 2017 [95 favorites]

Has any previous administration had this many shake-ups? I'm curious how this compares historically.

FiveThirtyEight just covered this question, at least at the cabinet level. With the Tillerson news, it might be four changes in the first year. The last six administrations have had zero.
posted by cudzoo at 9:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [19 favorites]

Yes, sentient. She is being what she is (uncensor that as you like) with full consent of her will.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch:

Colin Wilhelm, POLITICO: House Freedom Caucus pretty unanimously rejecting Alexander-Murray, debt trigger, phased in corporate rate cut that are all conditions of passage of tax reform in Senate.

So we are back to hoping that the wingnuts refuse to accept a 95%-of-what-they-wanted victory once again and fuck it up out of pure myopia.
posted by delfin at 9:06 AM on November 30, 2017 [19 favorites]

Colin Wilhelm, POLITICO: House Freedom Caucus pretty unanimously rejecting Alexander-Murray, debt trigger, phased in corporate rate cut that are all conditions of passage of tax reform in Senate.

Somebody should tell Collins & the other members of the milquetoast faction of the evil party.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:10 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Pelosi calls for Conyers's resignation
posted by sebastienbailard at 9:11 AM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

> we are back to hoping that the wingnuts refuse to accept a 95%-of-what-they-wanted victory once again and fuck it up out of pure myopia.

Right. And for those upthread asking about conference committees, I'm pretty sure if something gets through the Senate, McConnell will present it as a take-it-or-leave-it proposition to Ryan and the House, and they will get one vote on it, up or down.

At this point, it looks like this monstrosity will pass the Senate (I can't even) and then it's down to whether Ryan - with a lot larger margin for error - can corral enough of his right wing to vote yes.

If they get to Yes, Trump could have it signed even before the government shutdown begins on the 8th.

Right now, the only hope is to delay it enough so that the shutdown intervenes, and then hopefully the holiday break, and then hopefully force a conference committee, and then hopefully Doug Jones is seated and can vote No, and we can find one more No... It's an awfully tight needle to thread.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:13 AM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

Does Tillerson have some sort of obligation to the Russians to fill for his Rosneft money to come in? Is he just wrapping that shady deal up?

Can anyone link to a good primer on the Tillerson-Rosneft stuff? I remember reading about it months ago, but the Muller investigation hasn't seemed to touch it, and I've kind of forgotten about it.
posted by cudzoo at 9:16 AM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Room 641-A: CNN, meanwhile, has decided to boycott the event entirely. In a statement on Tuesday, a CNN spokesperson said it would be inappropriate for the network’s reporters to attend, “in light of the President’s continued attacks on freedom of the press and CNN”.

With black and LGBT reporters being excluded from the White House Christmas party invitations, ALL NEWS COMPANIES SHOULD BOYCOTT THIS RACIST, HOMOPHOBIC BULLSHIT and make public statements about doing so. Perhaps paired with personal interest stories in their co-workers and colleagues in other establishments who were excluded, paired with finally asking folks other than the rural, poor, white Trump supporters about how they feel about the country one year after Trump was elected president.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:17 AM on November 30, 2017 [82 favorites]

and then hopefully Doug Jones is seated

Not how polls are looking now.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:18 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

cudzoo: Can anyone link to a good primer on the Tillerson-Rosneft stuff?

Here's a recent-ish round-up of connections:

Exxon Mobil asked the Treasury for a waiver from sanctions to work with Russia (Elena Holodny and Natasha Bertrand for Business Insider, April 19, 2017, cribbing from a paywalled WSJ article)

Exxon Mobil Corp. applied to the Treasury Department for a waiver from sanctions on Russia in an effort to restart its joint venture with state oil company PAO Rosneft, according to the Wall Street Journal's Jay Solomon and Bradley Olson.
...
Notably, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is the former CEO of Exxon. He has close personal ties with Russia, has struck several major deals with Rosneft in the past, and received the Order of Friendship award from President Vladimir Putin in 2013.

He is recusing himself from matters involving Exxon for two years, according to the Journal. Moreover, it's unclear whether the request to the Treasury Department came before or after Tillerson joined the administration.

Exxon and Rosneft signed a landmark deal in 2012 under Tillerson's leadership to explore Russia's arctic and its portion of the Black Sea, as well as drill in Siberia.

posted by filthy light thief at 9:22 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Could mass protests shut down the Senate long enough to prevent the tax bill from being voted on before the Dec. 8 shutdown deadline?
posted by StrawberryPie at 9:22 AM on November 30, 2017

Not how polls are looking now.

Fuck polls. Remember last November?

No one has polled me and I'm damn sure going to be voting for Doug Jones.
posted by TwoToneRow at 9:31 AM on November 30, 2017 [32 favorites]

StrawberryPie: Could mass protests shut down the Senate long enough to prevent the tax bill from being voted on before the Dec. 8 shutdown deadline?

Shutting down Congress for a week with protests would be a Really Big Deal. The best we've had in the past are filibusters, but the longest of those are measured in hours, not days.

And to keep from crossing the streams, here's the Roy Moore-related thread.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:37 AM on November 30, 2017

Pelosi calls for Conyers's resignation

Having called her office following her mess of an interview on Sunday (and actually having a significant occasion to call my reps and tell them to do better, which hasn't happened a lot lately), good. I'm disappointed it took this long to get there publicly (Clyburn also called for him to resign this morning, which helps), but it's time.

Setting the rest of his behavior aside for a moment, if, as the New York Times has reported, Conyers has shown up to two meetings in his pajamas, I also want to know why Pelosi didn't step in sooner. (And, you know, his staff. This story doesn't make a ton of sense. Nobody was all "Congressman, you're in your pajamas, we can't go to the meeting" first?)
posted by zachlipton at 9:37 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Could mass protests shut down the Senate long enough to prevent the tax bill from being voted on before the Dec. 8 shutdown deadline?

Not even remotely. The people who are pushing this agenda and preparing it for a vote do not give a rat's ass what you, me or any of millions of other dissenters thinks about it. The Will of the People is secondary to the Will of the Only People Who Count.
posted by delfin at 9:39 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Oh good. @rachaelmbade: CANCEL YOUR CHRISTMAS PLANS! GOP leaders announced in whip meeting 2day the double CR strategy. 1st CR will go to DEC 22 to try to get a deal w/Dems. HAPPY HOLIDAYS!

Let's drag this out as long as possible and a month of certainty about whether they'll be a shutdown. Great plan everyone.

Anyway, CORKER: “I don’t want to state where we are or what we’re doing.”

Gosh Senator, that's a hell of an act, what do you call it? Regular order.
posted by zachlipton at 9:46 AM on November 30, 2017 [23 favorites]

The Hill: More than 2,400 representatives from Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Sikh, and Buddhist religions have written a letter to Mitch McConnell coming out against the tax bill.
posted by StrawberryPie at 9:54 AM on November 30, 2017 [42 favorites]

Josh Marshall's opinion on the possible Tillerson-Pompeo-Cotton move: Everything Falls Away But the Racism

What it all boils down to is that racism – white racial grievance, immigration restriction, generalized bashing of basically any political or cultural assertion by African-Americans – is the only consistent and persistent line connecting the campaign to the presidency. This is not quite the same as saying that that’s the only real bottom line for his supporters – though there’s a lot of truth to that. But for Trump, that’s clearly the only thing that isn’t opportunistic and situational. Those all fall away. The only thing that doesn’t is the ethno-nationalism and racism. It’s the real him.

Marshall's point is that all through the campaign, he campaigned as a middle-class champion who would not cut Medicare/Medicaid and who would avoid more wars in the Middle East; however, his signing on with the healthcare debacle and tax scam has shown what bullshit that is. The only thing that is consistent with Donald Trump is his hatred for people of color, personal greed, and satisfying his gargantuan ego.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:57 AM on November 30, 2017 [66 favorites]

The people who are pushing this agenda and preparing it for a vote do not give a rat's ass what you, me or any of millions of other dissenters thinks about it.

Yeah, I've been faxing, resistbotting, postcarding and mean tweeting anyway, just because it makes me feel better to vent my spleen, but I think it's pretty clear that there's literally nothing that can stop this. They don't care how many people hate it. This is their chance to undo the New Deal and they're going to go for it, hell or high water.
posted by soren_lorensen at 9:59 AM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

NYT: Russia and Egypt Move Toward Deal on Air Bases

LONDON — In an apparent snub to the Trump administration, Russia said on Thursday that it had reached a preliminary agreement with Cairo that would allow its military jets to use Egyptian air bases and airspace.

The draft agreement, released by Moscow and confirmed by an Egyptian military official, would mark the latest extension of Russian power in the Middle East, in this case through cooperation with one of Washington’s closest Arab allies. Critics said it is also the latest sign of America’s diminishing international influence as President Trump has pulled back its military and diplomatic footprint around the world.

The United States has provided Egypt more than $70 billion in military aid over the years, and supporters of the aid program often argue that one of its main benefits to Washington is allowing the American military to use Egyptian airspace and air bases.

Wowzers. Somebody's drinking somebody's milkshake, that's for sure!

Winning: So tired of it!
posted by notyou at 10:00 AM on November 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

I’m a Depression historian. The GOP tax bill is straight out of 1929. (Robert S. McElvaine, Washington Post)

In 1926, Calvin Coolidge’s treasury secretary, Andrew Mellon, one of the world’s richest men, pushed through a massive tax cut that would substantially contribute to the causes of the Great Depression. Republican Sen. George Norris of Nebraska said that Mellon himself would reap from the tax bill “a larger personal reduction [in taxes] than the aggregate of practically all the taxpayers in the state of Nebraska.” The same is true now of Donald Trump, the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adelson and other fabulously rich people.

posted by MrVisible at 10:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [91 favorites]

Trump to give State of the Union on Jan. 30 (Matthew Nussbaum, Politico)
posted by Room 641-A at 10:28 AM on November 30, 2017

Exxon Mobil asked the Treasury for a waiver from sanctions to work with Russia (Elena Holodny and Natasha Bertrand for Business Insider, April 19, 2017, cribbing from a paywalled WSJ article)

Here's the WSJ's Twitter link for a workaround to the article: https://t.co/pwrU3ZvgOj

The State Department is among the U.S. government agencies that have a say on Exxon’s waiver application, which was made to the Treasury Department’s Office of Foreign Assets Control, according to current and former U.S. officials.

Mr. Tillerson is recusing himself from any matters involving Exxon for two years, and won’t be involved with any decision made by any government agency involving Exxon during this period, a State Department spokesman said.[...]

The sanctions effectively sidelined a landmark exploration deal Exxon, under Mr. Tillerson’s leadership, had signed with Rosneft in 2012. The deal granted Exxon access to explore in Russia’s Arctic waters, the right to drill with new technology in Siberia and the chance to explore in the deep waters of Russia’s portion of the Black Sea.

Mr. Putin said Exxon and Rosneft might invest as much as $500 billion over the life of the partnership. In 2013, the Russian leader bestowed upon Mr. Tillerson the country’s Order of Friendship in part for his role in developing the joint venture.

For further context, Tillerson misled the Senate during his confirmation hearing about his lobbying against Russian oil sanctions in 2014, served as a long-time director of a US-Russian oil firm based in the tax haven of the Bahamas, and is close to ex-KGB hardliner and head of Rosneft, Igor Sechin.

The bottom line is that Tillerson's longstanding relationship with Putin and Rosneft has always been designed to boost Exxon's bottom line—from which he still stands to benefit after he leaves the State Department.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:39 AM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

Manafort made bail and is no longer on house arrest or sporting and ankle bracelet.
posted by fluttering hellfire at 10:39 AM on November 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

CNN, State Dept. warned White House about possible increased threats after anti-Muslim tweets

After President Donald Trump retweeted anti-Muslims videos on Wednesday, multiple State Department officials said the department communicated to the White House that there was concern that protests could happen at US embassies.

Officials feared that the tweets, which appeared to depict Muslims engaged in different acts of violence, would spark a reprise of the violent protests at US embassies in the Middle East which are already on high security alert. Protests erupted in September 2012 following the publication of an anti-Muslim video on the internet.

I, for one, was led to believe from the campaign that embassy security was the nation's #2 priority, just after email security, but hey, now we're actively making things more dangerous (see also Tillerson refusing to meet with the head of Diplomatic Security).
--
Sen. Lindsey Graham, everyone

CNN today: "You know what concerns me about the American press is this endless, endless attempt to label the guy as some kind of kook, not fit to be President"

Discussing Trump on Fox in February 2016: "I'm not going gonna try to get into the mind of Donald Trump because I don't think there's a whole lot of space there. I thnk he's a kook. I think he's crazy. I think he's unfit for office."

It's a thousand times more incredible on video.
posted by zachlipton at 10:41 AM on November 30, 2017 [106 favorites]

The Onion: Breitbart Criticized For Publishing Humanizing Profile Of Libtard Beta-Cuck
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:58 AM on November 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

The Hill: ‘Britain First’ deputy leader asks Trump to help her avoid prison

SEAL Team 6 will receive their deployment orders to extract her imminently. Stealth, in-and-out, no-one gets hurt except non-Aryans.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:01 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

With Murkowski and McCain's votes the passage of the tax bill is a fait accompli.

What happened to the JCT's independent analysis we were supposed to get last night? Did it get delayed? Looks like they are gonna push a vote before we even see how much this monstrosity will actually cost.
posted by Justinian at 11:03 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Olivia Beavers, The Hill: Top Intel Dem [Schiff] says Sessions refused to say whether Trump asked him to hinder Russia probe

Narrator: Trump asked Sessions to hinder Russia probe.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:07 AM on November 30, 2017 [49 favorites]

Buzzfeed News: The Trump Administration Is Mulling A Pitch For A Private “Rendition” And Spy Network

The White House and CIA have been considering a package of secret proposals to allow former US intelligence officers to run privatized covert actions, intelligence gathering, and propaganda missions, according to three sources who’ve been briefed on or have direct knowledge of the proposals.

One of the proposals would involve hiring a private company, Amyntor Group, for millions of dollars to set up a large intelligence network and run counter terrorist propaganda efforts, according to the sources.

[...]

Amyntor Group is a reclusive company headquartered in Whitefish, Montana,
posted by theodolite at 11:15 AM on November 30, 2017 [72 favorites]

Don't spend that $100 all in one place, folks!

Even Dubya had the sense to make it at least $300 for everyone. They could have done that *and* had a ton left over to redistribute wealth upward, but they had to get greedy.
posted by tonycpsu at 11:19 AM on November 30, 2017 [19 favorites]

Amyntor Group is a reclusive company headquartered in Whitefish, Montana

Is this another one of those scam corporations like the Puerto Rico one? And is it a way to pay Richard Spencer millions of dollars?

On the one hand, I don't like this at all. On the other, if we have to spend millions and millions on a privatized Cheka, giving it to a scam corporation which is unlikely to have the skills, connections or follow-through to actually build anything is probably the best possible outcome.
posted by Frowner at 11:24 AM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

headquartered in Whitefish, Montana

Next on Disney XD: In one small Montana town, something strange is afoot... two kids deal with the perils of adolescence while exploring the mysteries of a town that's a magnet for inhumane and corrupt abuses of power! "Democracy Falls" (22m, closed captioning)
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:28 AM on November 30, 2017 [39 favorites]

Zinke lives there as well. I'd bet this is his fleece the federal government side project.
posted by cmfletcher at 11:28 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Is this another one of those scam corporations like the Puerto Rico one?

Just did some top secret SIGINT and it looks like their Global HQ shares a strip mall with a pilates place and Quilt Kits To Go.
posted by theodolite at 11:30 AM on November 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

Zinke lives there as well.

Yup, that was a big part of why the Puerto Rico deal raised so much ire.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:32 AM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Amyntor’s officials and employees include veterans of a variety of US covert operations, ranging from the Reagan-era Iran–Contra affair to more recent actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh good, great, super.

Amyntor's hiding in plain sight in Whitefish and as an area resident I've never heard of it or anything about it. On Street View it's in a nondescript small upscale office building tucked behind another office building, and there's no name listed on the parking lot's sign next to the other businesses and offices. Spooky. As far as I know it's not affiliated with Spencer but there is a ZERO percent chance that ZInke's not best buds with whatever ghouls work there.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:32 AM on November 30, 2017 [27 favorites]

What happened to needing the cost savings of health care repeal for the tax cuts?
posted by diogenes at 11:35 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Michigan candidate Dana Nessel releases scorching campaign ad urging voters to elect more women.

"When you’re choosing Michigan’s next attorney general, ask yourself this: Who can you trust most not to show you their penis in a professional setting?"
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:36 AM on November 30, 2017 [67 favorites]

> What happened to needing the cost savings of health care repeal for the tax cuts?

They already voted themselves 1.5 trillion dollars from the treasury in the reconciliation instructions. (That will get taken out of domestic spending programs under PAYGO rules - but that comes up after the tax cuts are locked in.)
posted by RedOrGreen at 11:37 AM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

What happened to needing the cost savings of health care repeal for the tax cuts?

1. Mandate repeal covers that in a wink-wink sort of way;

2. Many of the personal cuts sunset before 2027, helping to keep the 10 year cost of the bill within bounds (the corp cuts do not sunset, ever!*, however).

------------------
*Or until a later Congress undoes them.
posted by notyou at 11:40 AM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Also, if I remember right, Asa Hutchinson is significantly less insane than Tom Cotton. I wouldn't be surprised if his appointment is more establishment and less drink the Kool-Aid. Particularly given the fear Republicans have about 2018.

I'll predict it early: Asa appoints Leslie Rutledge.
posted by box at 11:40 AM on November 30, 2017

Probably, yeah.

Getting Cotton out of the Senate is good, putting him in an office that potentially turns him into an even worse person capable of inflicting his lack of humanity on the outside world is bad, getting him closer to the White House is hoo boy.

For those unfamiliar with him, bear in mind that the only reason things aren't worse right now is that everyone in the current administration is incompetent. Now imagine the same situation, run by someone who is highly intelligent and experienced.
posted by middleclasstool at 11:52 AM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

In comparison to previous years, there have been over a thousand additional deaths in Puerto Rico in September and October. It will worse when November is added in.
This jibes more closely with reality than does the fifty-some deaths (official, Trump approved) according the reports I have been getting through my institution and through my students.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:52 AM on November 30, 2017 [37 favorites]

Now imagine the same situation, run by someone who is highly intelligent and experienced.

Perhaps, but who has ever gotten close to Donny and not been ruined by it?
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:55 AM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

News4, White House Work Orders Reveal Mice, Roaches, Redecorating

Mostly the usual assortment of pest control problems, new drapes, satellite tv for Pence, but then:

The work orders show a request to replace the toilet seat in the Oval Office in late January, and specifies the project be completed “after hours please.”

posted by zachlipton at 12:09 PM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

fluttering hellfire: "Manafort made bail and is no longer on house arrest or sporting and ankle bracelet."

I have to believe his movements are being monitored.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:17 PM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I have to believe his movements are being monitored.

I forget, does he still have those 3 passports?
posted by christopherious at 12:23 PM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I have to believe his movements are being monitored.

That or Snowden is getting a neighbor.
posted by Artw at 12:24 PM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

I have to believe his movements are being monitored.

Likely by at least two different governments, one of whom has a pretty aggressive leak-control policy. If I were Manafort, I'd be a little concerned about where my food and drink was coming from. He was probably safer in prison.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:24 PM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Meanwhile, today in federal court for the cash-for-gold case formerly known as USA v. Reza Zarrab, the Daily Beast has a bombshell: Turkish President Ordered Banks to Violate U.N. Sanctions on Iran, Architect of Scheme Testifies:

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan personally signed off on the involvement of Turkish banks in a scheme to cheat U.S. and U.N. sanctions on Iran, the architect of the scheme testified in U.S. federal court on Thursday.

“The prime minister at that time, Recep Tayyip Erdogan ... had given instructions, had given an order, for [Ziraat and Vakif banks] to start doing the trade,” Reza Zarrab testified.

The allegation is explosive given that Turkey is traditionally a U.S. ally, a member of NATO, and home to a major U.S. air base that has been key to the war against the so-called Islamic State.

Zarrab, a Turkish-Iranian gold trader, is the star witness in a trial relating to a scheme that used his companies to help Turkey covertly buy Iranian oil and gas, in violation of U.S. and United Nations sanctions.

Prosecutors say Zarrab and his co-defendant, Mehmet Hakan Atilla, used a number of Turkish banks and Zarrab’s companies to trade cash for gold, and allow Iran to pay its international debts with proceeds from its oil sales.

[...]In his first day of testimony on Monday, Zarrab admitted to bribing the former Turkish economy minister, Zafer Caglayan, with more than €45 million ($53.5 million) to facilitate the sanctions-cheating through Turkish state-owned banks.

Reporter Katie Zavadski's on-the-ground Twitter feed has been riveting. Zarrab is describing an international money-laundering scheme using the Turkish lira via the state-owned bank Halkbank to circumvent US and EU financial regulations. Countries implicated in this scheme to dodge the international sanctions on Iran are China, India, Italy, and Japan. (Also, Reza Zarrab basically says he was bribing Halkbank's general manager, Suleyman Aslan, on top of Caglayan.) Wtih Zarrab's explosive testimony revealing Ankara as an international money-laundromat, the next questions are what role it really plays in Moscow's machinations in the region and how Mike Flynn bridges the ambitions of Putin and Erdogan.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:25 PM on November 30, 2017 [28 favorites]

Here’s that JCT dynamic score on the Senate bill people were asking about upthread.

There’s a bunch in there, but the bottom line number is growth offsets the deficit by about $400B. The tax cuts do not remotely come close to paying for themselves.
posted by zachlipton at 12:31 PM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

> The tax cuts do not remotely come close to paying for themselves.

These are, alas, our collective surprised faces.
posted by RedOrGreen at 12:37 PM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

So that will end up being 1.1 trillion dollars in cuts to SS, Medicaid, education... pretty much everything except the military.
posted by localhuman at 12:44 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

In other weird Project Veritas news, federal prosecutors are using an undercover PV video of an inauguration protest planning meeting in the felony trial of first six inaugural "rioters". From HuffPo, Feds Use James O’Keefe Video In Felony Trial Of Trump Inauguration Protesters:

The government maintained on Tuesday that the video provided by Project Veritas wasn’t deceptively edited. But Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Kerkhoff initially tried to keep Project Veritas’ name out of the court record, referring to it only as a “third party provider” and objecting when one of the defense attorneys was about to name the organization.

“Who provided it is irrelevant,” Kerkhoff told the judge out of the presence of the jury. “I have not disclosed the identify of the tapers.”

After a defense attorney told Superior Court Judge Lynn Leibovitz that the organization was “ultraconservative” and had a reason to potentially doctor the video, Kerkhoff relented, admitting to the judge it was provided by Project Veritas.

Kerkhoff even said that the government had redacted the video themselves, concealing the identity of the Project Veritas affiliate who used a button camera to record the video as well as Adelmeyer’s image.

Coverage also from the WaPo, Secret video of Inauguration Day protest meeting provided by Project Veritas

Defense attorney Jamie Heine asked Adelmeyer about apparent edits made to the video, pointing out that the timer seemed to skip a few seconds and later disappeared.

Adelmeyer said authorities made one edit to avoid revealing his disguise. Prosecutors said they also edited the video to conceal the identity of the person who made it.

Nothing dodgy at all here.
posted by peeedro at 12:47 PM on November 30, 2017 [41 favorites]

Special counsel lawyer Greg Andres replied that because Manafort and Gates had surrendered their passports, GPS monitoring wouldn't be necessary as long as they faced significant financial conditions.

That said, the police station in Little Diomede should be on alert in case they try to walk across the border..
posted by ocschwar at 12:50 PM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

Is concealing the identity of the video's creator a violation of the defendant's Sixth Amendment right to cross-examination?
posted by Uncle Ira at 12:52 PM on November 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

Here’s that JCT dynamic score on the Senate bill people were asking about upthread.

There’s a bunch in there, but the bottom line number is growth offsets the deficit by about $400B. The tax cuts do not remotely come close to paying for themselves.


It's interesting stuff. Some quotes from the report:

"On average, employment is projected to increase by about 0.6 percent relative to baseline levels during the budget period. After the sunset of the individual tax provisions, the increase in employment is expected to decline."

That's ... not very impressive.


"We estimate that consumption would be increased by 0.6 percent on average during the budget window, relative to baseline levels of consumption."

There are probably other ways to stimulate consumption, and by more than half a percent, too.


"The effects of the estate tax repeal are primarily a small increase in consumption, and a negligible change in GDP and other macroeconomic aggregates."

So far I'm not seeing a lot of this trickle down effect I've heard so much about.


"The permanent reduction in the corporate income tax rate continues to provide an incentive for increased investment and GDP in the second decade, but the increase in debt created during the budget period is expected to continue to exert some upward pressure on interest rates. Combined with reduced labor supply due to increasing tax rates on labor, the upward pressure on interest rates is projected to partially or wholly offset investments incentives by the end of the third decade."


Not to mention the eventuality of, probably long before the end of the third decade, the utter destruction of the economy.
posted by vverse23 at 1:19 PM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

Mod note: Y'all let's just let the whole Trump's toilet seat thing drop.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:27 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

Cambridge Analytica: Same Big Data, New Russia Ties
Siegelman identified the previously unreported names as: Melissa Nathan, Amanda Miller, Tim Unes, Auria McAlicher, Jason Greenblatt, Johnny Yenason, Bob Forseman, Curt Weldon, Paul Erickson, and Ivan Timovfee (Timofeev).
Some of them provide new links to Russia, while others fill in some blanks around the close relationship between the Trump Campaign and the subsequent White House administration.
posted by adamvasco at 1:30 PM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

$100 a week isn't going to change my spending habits, but I'll finally be able to put some money aside for future college tuition. :-/
posted by diogenes at 1:34 PM on November 30, 2017

John McCain, Reactionary and Partisan Hack

Virtually all of this is bullshit — the bill is just as procedurally defective as the health care bill he voted down, it’s farcical to describe the bill as a middle class tax cut, and the bill will not meaningfully affect economic growth. It’s a bill that will take healthcare away from millions of people and more expensive for many more, as well as raising taxes on many middle-class people, to pay for a massive giveaway to corporations and the wealthiest Americans. McCain is voting for it because he’s a liar and a hack, which he’s been for the vast majority of his career, and his media fluffers should be nearly as embarrassed as Paul Ryan’s.

posted by tonycpsu at 1:38 PM on November 30, 2017 [30 favorites]

It's not $100 per week. It's $100 per year.

Less than $2 per week.
posted by yesster at 1:39 PM on November 30, 2017 [38 favorites]

The GOP is touting "An open letter to Congress from over 100 economists: Pass tax reform and watch the economy roar"

I just took a quick look through the signees. Many are not actually economists. One glaring example is Seth Bied. He's listed as working for "New York State Tax Department" which, according to his LinkedIn profile is true. However what it doesn't mention is that he's a tax clerk with a BA who spends his days updating corporate tax records. And, get this, spends his evenings moonlighting as a bookkeeper for what looks to be his father's medical practice.

The best people, I tell you.
posted by mcduff at 1:48 PM on November 30, 2017 [23 favorites]

Special counsel lawyer Greg Andres replied that because Manafort and Gates had surrendered their passports

Walk over the border to Mexico, travel documents furnished by Russian oligarchs, he's on the first flight from Mexico City to Amsterdam and on to Moscow.

If he's off house arrest he will disappear.
posted by Talez at 1:56 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

> Even Dubya had the sense to make it at least $300 for everyone.

Stephen Harper pulled that whole "bribing us with our own money" tactic up here in Canada, too. I guess we were supposed to be all like "Well GOL-LEE MISTER PRIME MINISTER, THANKS FOR THE FREE DINNER AT THE KEG!" and of course that's how a lot of his supporters reacted.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:58 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

I just took a quick look through the signees. Many are not actually economists.

On a quick scan, it seems about 1/3 academic economists (many of them emeritus), 1/3 conservative think tank economists, 1/3 totally random people who are somehow attached to the conservative movement/conservative think tanks but don't actually have any training in economics.
posted by soren_lorensen at 2:00 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

Stephen Harper pulled that whole "bribing us with our own money" tactic up here in Canada, too. I guess we were supposed to be all like "Well GOL-LEE MISTER PRIME MINISTER, THANKS FOR THE FREE DINNER AT THE KEG!" and of course that's how a lot of his supporters reacted.

Kevin Rudd gave every taxpayer who earned under $80K a free check for $900 each in Australia as a stimulus during the GFC. We never went into recession. Just sayin.
posted by Talez at 2:01 PM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

If you're an econ nerd, there's been a back-and-forth between the folks who signed that open letter and Jason Furman (Obama's Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors) and Lawrence Summers (eh, among other things, the guy who inspired a Simpsons episode about being a sexist over women and math) over the details. Here's the most recent letter; you can click through to the past installments at the bottom.

Of course, as cjelli posted upthread, Mnuchin has been running around promising a Treasury analysis of the tax bill that doesn't actually exist, so intellectual honesty isn't in high supply here.

On another subject, a US citizen has been held in custody for 11 weeks and the government won't say his name or where he is or whether he's been read his rights. NYT, Charlie Savage, Judge Demands to Know Whether American Detainee Asked for Lawyer:

Warning that the Trump administration seems to be claiming “unchecked power that is, quite frankly, frightening,” a judge ordered the government on Thursday to say by 5 p.m. whether an American citizen held in military custody for 11 weeks has been warned of his Miranda rights and has sought access to a lawyer.

The order, by Judge Tanya S. Chutkan of the Federal District Court of the District of Columbia, came midway through a contentious hearing in the highly unusual case. It centers on an American who was captured by a Syrian militia in mid-September, apparently fighting for the Islamic State, and turned over to American military forces.

And just in as I type this, the DOJ responded to the judge's order. They admit he's requested a lawyer, but "The agents explained that due to his current situation, it was unknown when he would be able to have an attorney, and the individual stated that it was ok and that he is a patient man." The filing also makes it clear there's a separate intelligence interrogation going on as well. None of this is remotely ok.
posted by zachlipton at 2:19 PM on November 30, 2017 [27 favorites]

Doesn't Tillerson have a "suicide pact" with Mattis and Mnuchin? Any word on whether Mattis and Mnuchin will jump too?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 2:24 PM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Conyers has shown up to two meetings in his pajamas,

why they decided to hold two meetings in his pajamas, we'll never know

I am usually too polite/seethingly repressed to ask Lyft drivers to turn off their fucking car radios so I had to listen to some NPR garbage a couple hours ago. among other things, they attempted to consider the issue of how racist it is if/that black politicians are held to a higher standard re: facing some minor consequences, any consequences at all, for assault and harassment of women. just like real reporters!

or not. because despite talking about this a few short seconds after playing a clip of a Conyers victim saying in upset tones that she knows he's an important black Democrat and civil rights leader, but so is she, they did not raise the issue of whether black women victims of harassment and assault by powerful men see any justice/consequences for their abusers at the same, higher, or lower rate than their white counterparts or women of other races.

you'd think this would be the most important question and the starting point for any discussion of how racism influences these things. but no. all the demographic analysis, all the consideration of fairness, all the speculation about bias, was regarding the treatment of the perpetrators. all of it. the victims do not exist for these purposes. women, being more or less a separate species, don't need to have their treatment considered in light of race or class and considered as whole people with more than one intersecting characteristic that might influence their vulnerability to attack (or to harassment and assault in the first place) or their treatment by the press and various authorities. or add to their risk-benefit calculus when deciding whether to report or self-identify publicly, or influence their sense of guilt and responsibility over coming forward.

choosing to make the question of what's fair and who's being given preferential treatment into a question exclusively about perpetrators just deletes the racial identities of women from the subject entirely. but you have to focus on what's important, I guess. and who.
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:36 PM on November 30, 2017 [36 favorites]

Doesn't Tillerson have a "suicide pact" with Mattis and Mnuchin? Any word on whether Mattis and Mnuchin will jump too?

1. The NYT story on Tillerson's removal notes that several high level staffers plan to exit early next year and there is some debate about whether to do them all at once or space it out a bit. So maybe those fellas are them?

2. A suicide pact involving those three probably isn't worth the chicken blood it's written in.

3. That NYT story also notes that Kelly was tasked with a coming up with a "plan" for Tillerson's removal and one supposes today's big leaks about the plan to remove Tillerson are part of that plan. How meta.
posted by notyou at 2:38 PM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

despite talking about this a few short seconds after playing a clip of a Conyers victim saying in upset tones that she knows he's an important black Democrat and civil rights leader, but so is she, they did not raise the issue of whether black women victims of harassment and assault by powerful men see any justice/consequences for their abusers at the same, higher, or lower rate than their white counterparts or women of other races

See also: Anita Hill
posted by Atom Eyes at 2:40 PM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

Cornyn says that the trigger may not work for some reason, as per twitter
posted by angrycat at 2:43 PM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Parliamentarian said she'll throw it out under the Byrd rule (i.e., it would need 60 votes).
posted by melissasaurus at 2:45 PM on November 30, 2017 [29 favorites]

It seems like the consequences of harassment/assault/crime-in-general depends more on that politicians constituents (however they choose to define them) than a strict legal code. It can be seen as unfortunate that the consequences are greater for left-leaning politicians but that is simply the cost of staying on the high road. I'm fine with this. I think it would be better if the rules were more specific, but until that happens the line between the good and everyone else just becomes more clearly delineated.
posted by H. Roark at 2:47 PM on November 30, 2017

Senate drama. What was supposed to be one of a series of routine party-line votes to force Republicans to vote no on various motions to send the bill back to committee and enact some popular-sounding change was held open for more than an hour after Corker, Flake, and Johnson didn't vote (they've since voted no as expected and are moving on). But they and a large gaggle of Republicans were huddled in the well with McConnell and the Parlimentarian and there turns out to be a problem. As I told y'all yesterday (for reasons I still do not remotely understand), it seems a trigger that cuts discretionary spending doesn't pass muster. That would leave a trigger that increases taxes, if there's going to be a trigger, which is obviously less popular. They, of course, won't say how much the trigger would raise taxes or which taxes would be raised.

Hatch is still claiming they can pass it tonight, but it's clear they have a problem.
posted by zachlipton at 2:49 PM on November 30, 2017 [33 favorites]

See also: Anita Hill

YEAH. and this same principle is also why it is a bit infuriating to hear people jump with relief to some notion of a conspiracy against Democrats or a political bias leading to harsher consequences for Democratic men who do these things. What women are the easiest to access, for a politician looking for someone to assault or harass? why, his staffers! to grab a staffer, you don't even have to leave your office. You have their phone numbers. you have their goddamn home addresses, if you want them. you have their support. You know as a matter of fact that your professional success and your image is important to them -- important personally if they are idealists or young and naive; important professionally in any case -- because they work for you and your downfall will tarnish their resume. as will their name appearing in a newspaper report about your vile habits.

so, when elected Democrats harass people, they are almost always harassing other Democrats. Other career Democrats; people who work in politics, who may not be in elected office yet but who very well might have that as a someday ambition. or who once did, before being shown exactly what you have to go through before you rise that high.

and who is most likely to believe sexual harassment is always unacceptable and most likely to feel a sense of obligation to report, at great personal and professional cost? why, it's women Democrats!.

so, if we care about protecting Democrats and getting more better younger people into office, which I do, we care about taking down Democratic harassers. taking down Democrats when Republicans are left alone means, among other things, that Democratic political offices will be safer and friendlier places for women than Republican ones. they already are? well, yeah, they already are. but not as much as young women staffers might think before they get there. taking down abusers of women is good for Democrats, if it is allowed to be.

(and I don't even care if the party leaders need to keep a Conyers or a Franken in office for a few critical months to get a bunch of votes done. do what you have to do. then get them out and never let them back in)
posted by queenofbithynia at 2:54 PM on November 30, 2017 [52 favorites]

As I told y'all yesterday (for reasons I still do not remotely understand), it seems a trigger that cuts discretionary spending doesn't pass muster. That would leave a trigger that increases taxes, if there's going to be a trigger, which is obviously less popular. They, of course, won't say how much the trigger would raise taxes or which taxes would be raised.

I believe the issue is that it's contingent - that is, they can't say whether it will affect outlays or revenues (a Byrd requirement) because they can't predict whether the trigger will be triggered. I think this applies to any kind of trigger (discretionary spending cut or tax increase). What they could do is bake in the tax increases and then plan to delay them at a later date; like the reverse of the supposed-to-sunset Bush tax cuts that they extended a million times. I believe what's happening now behind the scenes is that they're trying to decide where to throw in the scheduled increases. Of course, this should all be happening in committee, in the open, through regular order; alas, here we are.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:20 PM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

The Trump Foundation gave Project Veritas $10K a couple years ago, naturally.

And to no-one's surprise, Buzzfeed reports, Conservative Megadonor Robert Mercer Funded Project Veritas. "Gravitas Maximus LLC — a Mercer investment vehicle through which he also funded the conservative outlet Breitbart — gave $25,000 to Project Veritas, according to a nonpublic portion of a 2012 tax form. The family's involvement has not previously been made public." (Buzzfeed gives a hat tip to Nation Institute researcher Eli Clifton's documenting Project Veritas's funding from 2011 to 2013.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:30 PM on November 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

The Trump Foundation gave Project Veritas $10K a couple years ago, naturally.

I think that's $20K now, there were two donations.
posted by scalefree at 4:08 PM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

has project veritas achieved anything so far besides milking the republican money machine and tripping over their own pants and landing backward in a cream pie and then a clown laughs at them
posted by murphy slaw at 4:17 PM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

a couple of comprehensive articles on Trump's most recent racist tweets: Snopes.com, The Guardian
posted by XMLicious at 4:21 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

murphy_slaw: Weren't they instrumental in the destruction of ACORN?
posted by foxfirefey at 4:27 PM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

Steve Rudin [via Twitter]: The National Tree Lighting ceremony was beautiful this evening - but hard not to notice the empty seats.
posted by Atom Eyes at 4:31 PM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

There's a verdict in the Kate Steinle murder case in San Francisco that Trump turned into a centerpiece of his campaign. Not guilty.

This is going to be extremely ugly.
posted by zachlipton at 4:34 PM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

Trump tells confidants that a government shutdown might be good for him

Also:

But Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.), a lead negotiator for Democrats, complained this week that Republicans have backed off their initial pledge to broker a compromise. He said he now doubts what he said Trump told him privately on Inauguration Day: “We’re going to take care of those kids.”

“For months, almost a year, he was consistent when it came to this topic. Lately, not so much,” Durbin said in an interview. “But he has a tendency to move back and forth. We hope we catch him at a good moment.”

I remember when sexist assholes said women shouldn't be allowed to run for office because they were too emotional and couldn't make decisions.
posted by Talez at 4:35 PM on November 30, 2017 [62 favorites]

And national treasure, Alexandra Petri, Why Alabamians should consider eating Democrats’ babies

Even if Roy Moore did what he is accused of doing, and we often can agree he did, I still think voting for him would be appropriate — no, just. What he did had a certain merit to it, when you consider that he was born centuries ago, in biblical times, before we had laws or limits to consent. At least, I think he was. That is certainly the vibe he gives off. But after coming to that decision, we reach the real problem: As long as there are Democrats in Alabama, some of them will vote against Moore or run for office against him, which seems a great shame now that we have decreed he is morally acceptable. What alternative remains?

Simple: Eat the Democrats’ young.

posted by Talez at 4:51 PM on November 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

Latest on the tax bill that was supposed to be voted on today:

McConnell intended to start voting in 5 mins. They are not. As I tweeted👇, a final Senate vote has obstacles.
As that thread points out, the deficit hawks and Susan Collins are both currently unsatisfied.
The deficit hawks (Corker, Flake, Lankford) were proposing a trigger to restore taxes if deficit grew too much.
And guess what (drum roll), the deficit will grow by $1 Trillion if the bill passes. See thread.
By all reports Corker is asking for more taxes since the Parliamentarian ruled the trigger illegal.
They are working now on raising taxes to satisfy Corker & Flake. Solving their problem causes others.

But if they don’t get on board...
They would have no votes to spare.

And this where the drama would get interesting...
MOST IMPORTANT: if this plays out, Susan Collins would be in the catbird seat.

That’s where you come in.
Collins is asking for many amendments— local taxes, health care, ending paygo. And House & Senate Rs will likely find them unacceptable.
Two things for sure. 1) If there is a vote, no one will have read this thing. Arms will be twisted.
2) If it passes, it will swell the deficit for corporate tax cuts, estate tax cuts, and loopholes for wealthy. Middle class taxes up.

So expect to see the name Elizabeth MacDonough plastered all over Fox News. You might remember her from 2009 when she was the "unelected bureaucrat shepherding Obamacare through the Senate".
posted by Talez at 5:01 PM on November 30, 2017 [12 favorites]

Jake Tapper completely owning Lindsay Graham with nothing but archival footage and a Jim Halpert look into the camera.
posted by Talez at 5:06 PM on November 30, 2017 [32 favorites]

As far as I can tell... and I don't understand how this can be... they are literally trying to get to a vote on a bill that they haven't actually written. It's like... Schroedinger's Bill. The Bill is only written once you vote on it.

And yet this counts as regular order, according to Senator John McCain?

Also this "tax cut" bill is less popular when polled than the 2 tax increases in the last 30 years.
posted by Justinian at 5:07 PM on November 30, 2017 [40 favorites]

They're trying to do the ACA repeal strategy where they just need to get something passed and then they kick it to conference where they try to sort through all the shit and try to find something palatable to both houses.

The paint huffers vs. "principled conservatives" is once again the stumbling block.
posted by Talez at 5:10 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Folks, the GOP is in chaos right now trying to get everyone to agree on this bill. Please call your senators tonight. Have their staffers start their day with packed voicemail. Senate switchboard: [phone]
posted by mcduff at 5:13 PM on November 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

murphy_slaw: Weren't they instrumental in the destruction of ACORN?

o'keefe's ACORN fiasco was prior to the founding of project veritas

and ACORN was basically destroyed by shrapnel from o'keefe tripping over his own dick and sitting down on a landmine and then a duck sat on his head and pooped and a federal judge laughed at him
posted by murphy slaw at 5:14 PM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

This is even worse than ACA repeal, they did at least have two separate versions of the repeal bill that actually existed and were released prior to the vote. Right now they are literally writing the bill on the floor.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:14 PM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

Honest to God, this whole debacle only makes sense to me if they either don't plan on having free and fair elections ever again, or if they really are planning to run the Trump playbook of All Racism All the Time. They're going to screw their base, then explain it by yelling "It's the liberals' fault," and some will buy it. No doubt. But enough of them to still win elections?

Are they honestly not afraid of any of their normally loyal base supporters speaking up about their higher taxes and their lost healthcare?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 5:16 PM on November 30, 2017 [19 favorites]

Are they honestly not afraid of any of their normally loyal base supporters speaking up about their higher taxes and their lost healthcare?

they're more afraid of their donors than they are of their voters. their donors actually care about their legislative accomplishments.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:17 PM on November 30, 2017 [24 favorites]

they're more afraid of their donors than they are of their voters. their donors actually care about their legislative accomplishments.

Pretty much. Donors finance credible primary challengers. Then there's just plain getting Cantored if the inmates have the keys to the asylum. Until "moderate" Republicans outvote these shitheads, or Democrats cross the floor in red districts, the wingnuts will win just because they show up on primary day.
posted by Talez at 5:19 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

The foreign-policy implications of the Russia-Egypt story are critical and so much more than just a "snub": In Snub to U.S., Russia and Egypt Move Toward Deal on Air Bases

Egypt is one of those countries whose location gives it great geopolitical significance. It sits at the rift between Africa and Asia, and encompasses the Suez Canal – the only quick sea route between the Indian Ocean and Mediterranean Sea. Because of its location Egypt is an entry point for most international data cables between Asia and Europe, and potentially a lockable door on the sea route between Europe and Asia. It's also a stable(ish) foothold on the shores of Africa, easily reached from Europe.

The Russian-Egyptian rapprochement doesn't just put things on an equal footing; it changes the situation so that the US, for instance, cannot rely on being able to commandeer Egyptian airspace against Russia. And it's not so long ago that Egypt was explicitly a Russian ally: a lot of what the US learned about MiGs came from Israeli battles against not just Russian planes, but Russian pilots. The US worked really hard at turning that around through things like clearing the Suez Canal (mined and blocked by wreckage during the Six Day War between Egypt and Israel) and then through the Carter-mediated peace treaty between Egypt and Israel that led to Israel's withdrawal from the Sinai Peninsula. And of course there's all the foreign aid, although that should really be the least of it.

So the US has lost bigly here. It can't be all Trump's fault; it's been coming for years; but it probably wouldn't have happened if there had been a grownup in the White House.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:22 PM on November 30, 2017 [25 favorites]

BREAKING: Republicans just canceled tonight’s vote on their tax bill. They still don’t have enough votes to pass this awful bill.

We can’t let up! Keep calling your representatives and tell them to vote NO on the #GOPTaxPlan.

- @SenFeinstein
posted by murphy slaw at 5:26 PM on November 30, 2017 [80 favorites]

If anyone needs a script for calling your terrible Republican senators, my version is:

"Hi, my name is [your name here] and I live at [your address here.] This tax bill is a disaster for middle-class Americans, and the Republicans are trying to rush it to a vote because they don't want their constituents to have the time to evaluate it and see how terrible it really is. If this is a a good bill, you should be willing to allow people to know its exact contents and debate it before you try to pass it. And if you won't do that, then you're not really representing your constituents, and you don't deserve to be in office."
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:39 PM on November 30, 2017 [39 favorites]

Or, “My name is X. I am a constituent. I live at Y. My phone number is Z. I oppose the tax reform bill and want Senator Q to vote against it. Thank you.”

No need to get fancy, they’re just keeping a tally.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:44 PM on November 30, 2017 [34 favorites]

NYT, Trump Pressed Top Republicans to End Senate Russia Inquiry.There's a lot in here, and we knew some of it, but this story is notable for the number of Republicans in Congress who were willing to be quoted, if not by name. This sentence is also a hell of a thing: "Mr. Trump often vented to his own aides and even declared his innocence to virtual strangers he came across on his New Jersey golf course."

How does that work? He just walks up to people, shakes their hands and thanks them for being customers, and says "by the way, I didn't collude?"

Anyway, quick tax update from Steven Dennis:

There is a huge, behind the scenes fight in the Senate right now, with hundreds of billions at stake.
*Ted CRUZ* leading the resistance to CORKER insistence on more taxes & challenged him on the floor.

I spoke to both Cruz and Corker after they came off the floor; Corker was subdued, wouldn't talk specifics. Cruz was fiery after I chased his elevator down stairs.

"Fifty-one senators want to cut taxes," CRUZ said. "ONE is trying to raise taxes. That’s not right."

posted by zachlipton at 6:03 PM on November 30, 2017 [15 favorites]

they're more afraid of their donors than they are of their voters.

Amber Phillips makes this point in a WaPo editorial from tonight:

Graham has been the most frank spokesman for how vital this tax bill is to the future of the Republican Party. Donors (who would benefit from this bill) would just stop giving to the party, he's warned. Republicans could lose their majorities in Congress, he and others have warned. Failures to pass it “will be the end of us as a party,” Graham told the New York Times at one point during this process.

Behind closed doors, Republicans in Congress agree. The common wisdom is they need to prove to donors and voters they can deliver on major campaign promises, the sooner the better.

Their concern may be warranted: Republicans control all levers of government in Washington, and yet they are coming up on one year without a major legislative accomplishment.

After Republicans' attempt to repeal Obamacare blew up in their face, donors and activists were aghast. Key conservatives — even huge proponents of getting something, anything, done on health care — said it was time for Republicans to cut their losses and move on.

“This is an epic failure by congressional Republicans,” Tim Phillips, president of the conservative Koch network-funded group Americans for Prosperity, told me at the time. “But it’s time to pivot to tax reform. There’s no time to pout.”
posted by Dr. Send at 6:04 PM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

Donors (who would benefit from this bill) would just stop giving to the party, he's warned.

I am so sick of this lie.

“This is an epic failure by congressional Republicans,” Tim Phillips, president of the conservative Koch network-funded group Americans for Prosperity, told me at the time. “But it’s time to pivot to tax reform. There’s no time to pout.”

No it isn't. Not for any of that. It's not even a failure, it's just a bad bill trying to do something unnecessary.
posted by rhizome at 6:06 PM on November 30, 2017 [5 favorites]

I usually add "And I have voted in every federal election since 2010 and every state and local election since 2014. I will be watching you and taking your decisions into account when I vote for your seat next." I like to keep my threats explicit.

I do sometimes like to spin things in terms of "but why do you hate small businessmen and entrepreneurs, Mr. Cornyn? After all, that's who removing the Net Neutrality protections will hurt worst!" and "But Mr. Cruz, why do you support tax cuts for millionaires? After all, trickle-down economics hasn't produced noticeable dividends yet, and we've been trying since before I was born! Why do you support tax cuts for billionaires at the expense of working Americans?" Everything gets framed in terms of personal freedom, patriotism, entrepreneurs, or morality--everything. I use the language that Republicans use and I ask these questions chirpily and in an upbeat way.

I do this when I'm feeling particularly hopeless or spiteful largely because I like to make the person on the other line uncomfortable as they have to look for a moral way to defend the morally incomprehensible. I would not normally speak to a customer service operative in this way, but the way I see it is: I want to make it fucking awful for Republicans to keep staff answering these phones. I want to drive their interns into the ocean. I want to make working there a miserable, thankless fucking task, and if I'm going to need to spend twice as much on therapy co-pays as a result of the votes of these gentleman, I'm damn well going to also make their lackeys listen to my fears and my moral rants, too.

I shared some of these tactics earlier this week with my students when Net Neutrality came up in class--it's a genetics lab; we talk about a lot of weird shit--and one of them started demanding that everyone call their damn Senators over this and make sure they got registered to vote now. The whole class was unified in agreement that we gotta do something, and these twenty-year-olds were asking each other "Do you know how to get registered? Do you need to get the change of address done? Here, you can do it online, did you know?"

It was pretty great.
posted by sciatrix at 6:08 PM on November 30, 2017 [114 favorites]

sciatrix: That story about your students made me tear up. I'm proud of them and I don't even know them!
posted by mcduff at 6:12 PM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

Another GOP legislative fiasco, at least for an evening. As has been pointed out here and elsewhere, if seems like all they should have to do is walk this burning garbage tax bill back to a moldering rubbish tax bill, and they'd peel away 6-8 Democrats in the Senate and however many in the House to overcome the FC and they'd actually be advancing their agenda.

The pressure to do it this way must be immense.
posted by notyou at 6:20 PM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

I am endlessly proud of my students. We had similar discussions in my sections last fall, and in my other section this semester we occasionally talk about the scary things happening as budding scientists--for reasons I don't entirely understand, that section is almost entirely pre-research, which is weird--and how that impacts us.

One of my best students was eyeing up a career in politics and had been interning with the local Republican party, more or less because it's Texas and that's the main game in town. (He'd been unhappy about this for a while--he was even a bit afraid to vote locally, because apparently that shit had a way of becoming public within the party and he was afraid of blowback.) He fucking walked off his job there and burned his bridges over the tax bill. I think he's angling to work with a Dem in the spring, but either way, I'm proud of him over that.
posted by sciatrix at 6:20 PM on November 30, 2017 [41 favorites]

""Fifty-one senators want to cut taxes," CRUZ said. "ONE is trying to raise taxes. That’s not right.""

And the other 48 Senators don't enter into his calculus at all, because Democrats are not people and don't represent real Americans. Gross.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:27 PM on November 30, 2017 [101 favorites]

Resistbot just tweeted that they're going to print out and hand deliver letters first thing tomorrow to Senators Collins, Corker, Daines, Flake, and Johnson. If you're in AZ, ME, MT, TN or WI, you can text RESIST to 50409 and then enter the text of your letter.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:32 PM on November 30, 2017 [23 favorites]

How does that work? He just walks up to people, shakes their hands and thanks them for being customers, and says "by the way, I didn't collude?"

The Republicans on the intelligence committee naturally want to pass it off as that innocuous, at least on the record.

Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina, the intelligence committee chairman, said in an interview this week that Mr. Trump told him that he was eager to see an investigation that has overshadowed much of the first year of his presidency come to an end.

“It was something along the lines of, ‘I hope you can conclude this as quickly as possible,’” Mr. Burr said. He said he replied to Mr. Trump that “when we have exhausted everybody we need to talk to, we will finish.”[...]

One of them was Mr. Blunt, who was flying on Air Force One with Mr. Trump to Springfield, Mo., in August when he found himself being lobbied by the president “to wrap up this investigation,” according to a Republican official familiar with the conversation.

Mr. Blunt was not bothered by Mr. Trump’s comments, the official said, because he did not see them bearing a “sinister motive.’’

Off the record, though, it's another matter:

Mr. Trump also called other lawmakers over the summer with requests that they push Mr. Burr to finish the inquiry, according to a Republican senator who requested anonymity to discuss his contact with the president.

This senator, who was alarmed upon hearing word of the president’s pleas, said Mr. Trump’s request to the other senators was clear: They should urge Mr. Burr to bring the Russia investigation to a close. The senator declined to reveal which colleagues Mr. Trump had contacted with the request.[...]

During this time, Mr. Trump made several calls to senators without senior staff present, according to one West Wing official. According to senators and other Republicans familiar with the conversations, Mr. Trump would begin the talks on a different topic but eventually drift toward the Russia investigation.[...] One Republican close to Mr. Burr, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that Mr. Trump had been “very forceful.”

It sounds as though Trump did more political arm-twisting over the Russia inquiry than on the health care bill and tax reform put together.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:34 PM on November 30, 2017 [31 favorites]

Fifty-one senators want to cut taxes

Considering they only need 50 to pass the fucker, seems there’s other issues Cruz isn’t mentioning.
posted by chris24 at 6:36 PM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

Yeah. Cruz may be trying to bill this as entirely Corker's fault, but if they had the votes, they'd be voting right now. Something more is afoot than just trying to satisfy Corker or they would have just given him the "train is leaving with or without you" speech.
posted by zachlipton at 6:38 PM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

All 4 of Susan Collins' answer machines in Maine are full. You can still leave a message on her Washington machine.
posted by merocet at 6:55 PM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

How does that work? He just walks up to people, shakes their hands and thanks them for being customers, and says "by the way, I didn't collude?"

Yes.

He's literally demented. Unwell. Unfit. Sick. Not just a racist sex abuser crook fascist fuckface. He has a the dis-ease.

Btw, after the third reference or so I had to look up Jim Halpert face because I'm way too hip and funky to recall he was a character on the US-version of The Office who often deadpanned or mugged into the camera at the end of a scene. It should rightfully be the Martin Freeman face, but that's not important right now.

I also had to look up The Parliamentarian, because either my Civics teacher or I was probably high and I missed the part about it being a power-having rules-checker role since 1935. The current one being on board since 2012, appointed by Harry Reid.
posted by petebest at 6:56 PM on November 30, 2017 [6 favorites]

according to a Republican senator who requested anonymity to discuss his contact with the president.

According to a coward who lacks the courage of his principles...
posted by dis_integration at 6:56 PM on November 30, 2017 [4 favorites]

You might recall that the normal Treasury Department analysis that should accompany this bill has not been released. Treasury's Inspector General noticed that, too, and is opening an investigation. [Bloomberg]
posted by Chrysostom at 7:00 PM on November 30, 2017 [44 favorites]

Four out of eight of Toomey's voicemail boxes are full. Pennsylvania is PISSED.
posted by mcduff at 7:06 PM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

The Parliamentarian is literally a rules lawyer.

So if rules lawyering is your jam, here are all the rules of the Senate
posted by fluttering hellfire at 7:06 PM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

I am on board for this.

Dallas County Sheriff Lupe Valdez reportedly plans to resign and run for Texas governor—1 of 8 children of migrant farm workers, Valdez is a lesbian U.S. Army veteran who bills herself as the only Hispanic female sheriff in the United States.
posted by chris24 at 7:07 PM on November 30, 2017 [50 favorites]

Yeah. Cruz may be trying to bill this as entirely Corker's fault, but if they had the votes, they'd be voting right now. Something more is afoot than just trying to satisfy Corker or they would have just given him the "train is leaving with or without you" speech.

Flake is with Corker on deficit hawking, but that’d still give them 50. It’s possible the Freedom Caucus threats over in the House are given Collins and others cold feet.

Good God Republicans are terrible at governing.
posted by leotrotsky at 7:10 PM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

The incomparable Niels Lesniewski at Roll Call has a good state of play on taxes tonight: GOP Still Seeking Tax Overhaul Magic Numbers. This bill is increasingly looking a lot less like "tax reform" and more like a short-term stimulus that costs a whole ton of money and manages to screw some people over.
posted by zachlipton at 7:12 PM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

I also had to look up The Parliamentarian, because either my Civics teacher or I was probably high and I missed the part about it being a power-having rules-checker role since 1935. The current one being on board since 2012, appointed by Harry Reid.

Well they don't have any *real* power because the VP can basically overrule them by fiat. All they have to do is drag Pence out of his coffin to the Senate floor and say "the trigger is legal" amongst all the Democrats shouting "SHAME!".
posted by Talez at 7:12 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

Now we know chris24 doesn't read ELECTIONS NEWS. Sad, really.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:13 PM on November 30, 2017 [18 favorites]

"Mr. Trump often vented to his own aides and even declared his innocence to virtual strangers he came across on his New Jersey golf course."

How does that work? He just walks up to people, shakes their hands and thanks them for being customers, and says "by the way, I didn't collude?"

I'd bet pretty much. It's certainly something he does in his speeches. EG: all the bat shittery about the electoral college and forcing people to say merry christmas when speaking at the Boy Scout Jamboree ... in July.
posted by Mitheral at 7:14 PM on November 30, 2017 [2 favorites]

The incomparable Niels Lesniewski at Roll Call has a good state of play on taxes tonight: GOP Still Seeking Tax Overhaul Magic Numbers. This bill is increasingly looking a lot less like "tax reform" and more like a short-term stimulus that costs a whole ton of money and manages to screw some people over.

It's not a stimulus. It's a giant fucking payday. It's not going to go into the economy. It's going to go into the pockets of shareholders and executives. Those shareholders? Either already filthy rich or mostly won't be touching that money until they turn 65.
posted by Talez at 7:14 PM on November 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

Oh no. I do. Love those. It’s been a busy last couple days shooting and I apologize I missed or forgot this tidbit. As a former Dallas resident I was just excited.
posted by chris24 at 7:15 PM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

I'll be honest, I don't quite know what to make of this story:

Staffers for Senate Republicans’ campaign arm seized information on more than 200,000 donors from the House GOP campaign committee over several months this year by breaking into its computer system, three sources with knowledge of the breach told POLITICO.

The unauthorized raid on the National Republican Congressional Committee’s data created a behind-the-scenes rift with the National Republican Senatorial Committee, according to the sources, who described NRCC officials as furious. It comes at a time when House Republicans are focused on preparing to defend their 24-seat majority in the 2018 midterm elections. And it has spotlighted Senate Republicans’ deep fundraising struggles this year, with the NRSC spending more than it raised for four months in a row.

posted by Chrysostom at 7:34 PM on November 30, 2017 [31 favorites]

The biggest joke is that the naked greed is so fucking incompetent. If I was a Republican and I wanted to pull more money out of the upper middle class to appease the deficit hawks I'd remove the SS contribution cap, allow people the option of putting their payroll tax on income over $500K into SS or the same amount into a 401(k) then stuff that money that I pull in back into the middle class. But to not lose red states I'd send it back to the middle class wholly as a working tax credit phasing out from $100K finishing at $150K. Make it non-refundable to not give an ounce to the poor.

I mean this shit isn't hard. You can really get those red state middle class greedy fucks back on side by giving them not only a massive tax credit but a hard on for the whole "to get a tax credit you need to earn it".

The upper middle class are already the biggest spigot per dollar. Might as well open it fully.
posted by Talez at 7:36 PM on November 30, 2017 [10 favorites]

It sounds as though Trump did more political arm-twisting over the Russia inquiry than on the health care bill and tax reform put together.

I mean. Mueller eventually gets around to all of these “anonymous sources”, and the case for obstruction of justice is a slam dunk, right? What am I missing?
posted by Brak at 7:55 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

I want to drive their interns into the ocean.

it's like you're the Red Bull of King Haggard and this year's Republican interns are the last of their kind, driven one by one to the shore, to the water, their last cries disappearing into the seagull's shrieks overhead, their quivering bowties dissolving into bowtie-shaped seafoam, and then just foam on the gently lapping waves, forever. on the metro, we will miss them and not know what we miss. on the grass by Dirksen, in the shadows of Russell and Hart, we will see a bright movement, we will hear a twig snapped by a delicate hoof, but however swiftly we follow, there will be nothing to see but a squirrel, or a page. sometimes a man sees a goat, or a deer in a polo shirt, and mistakes its shy grace for a Republican intern, but they are all gone, gone, driven into the sea.

but enough of literature, this comment is actually just to note for people prone to sudden heart attacks, like me, that Raj Shah the White House spokesman quoted by the New York times in the article linked above, saying that the president did nothing wrong, is not the Raj Shah who was administrator of USAID under Obama. in that one small way, everything is OK.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:56 PM on November 30, 2017 [35 favorites]

according to a Republican senator who requested anonymity to discuss his contact with the president.

According to a coward who lacks the courage of his principles...

Richard Burr has never had any principles other than he is apparently staying bought with the DeVos/Prince money that keeps him in his seat.

He is trash.
posted by winna at 7:57 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

So it appears the sticking point is SALT. SALT being scrapped closed the deficit by $300bn and the Senate doesn't even want to touch it. So they can't make the math even vaguely work like the House could. Flake and Corker are firmly the ones with sticker shock.

Even if they pass this there's still a huge chance it could die in conference. They can't appease both deficit hawks and the Senate's position on SALT.
posted by Talez at 8:00 PM on November 30, 2017 [11 favorites]

ELECTIONS NEWS

** 2018 House:

-- Lots of ratings updates from Sabato, 21 towards D, 4 towards R. Overall, coin flip for House control.

-- Nice Google Doc comparison of ratings for every seat ranked competitive by one of the four major forecasters (DDHQ, Cook, Sabato, Gonazales).

-- Noted upstream, TX-06's Joe Barton is officially not seeking re-election. This is a reach district for Dems (Trump 54-42), but it's likely to attract some attention, especially given it's just barely majority non-Hispanic white.

** 2018 Senate -- UtahPolicy.com poll finds that Mitt Romney would trounce likely Dem nominee Jenny Wilson 72-21. Orrin Hatch would also win, but only 50-35. These numbers may be another push on Hatch to retire.

** Odds & ends:

-- IL Dems have submitted a bill to pull the state out of Crosscheck, the Kris Kobach brainchild that is supposed to find voters registered in multiple states, but which mostly incorrectly removes voters from rolls, and also has a host of security problems. There was an effort to pull IL out via the State Board of Elections, but it failed on a party line vote.

-- A judge has ruled Santa Fe, NM will have to use ranked choice voting in its next mayoral election. RCV seems to be getting taken up in a lot of municipal elections.

-- New 538 podcast series about gerrymandering.

-- Terry McAuliffe is really seriously looking at running for president. I would wager several cakes this doesn't even come close to coming to pass.

-- In the PA gerrymandering case, Speaker of the House Mike Turzai and Senate President Pro Tem Joe Scarnati have accused each other of lying to a federal court.

-- Legal actions grind on in the NV GOP effort to recall Dem senators, with the current battle being over legality of signatures.

posted by Chrysostom at 8:05 PM on November 30, 2017 [29 favorites]

Yeah, well I called my senators and mentioned SALT specifically.
There will be a reckoning locally if we can no longer deduct our state and local taxes. People will move to lower tax areas, schools will be cut to the bone (many already are), and city workers will face layoffs.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 8:09 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

My comment was in response to Talez above the election news comment.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 8:12 PM on November 30, 2017

The Telegraph: Donald Trump’s 'working visit' to UK dropped as tensions with Theresa May grow over president's far-Right retweets
posted by Chrysostom at 8:17 PM on November 30, 2017 [48 favorites]

Maybe Collins, Murkowski, McCain, Flake, and Corker have a little club and they're all like, ok, who's going to be the last-minute nos on this latest piece of shit? And then Flake is like, Lisa, you got death threats last time and John, you're about to keel over. You go yes on this one and the rest of us will deficit-hawk this motherfucker to death. And everyone is all cool, good plan.
posted by medusa at 8:23 PM on November 30, 2017 [17 favorites]

zachlipton may have called it:

There's a verdict in the Kate Steinle murder case in San Francisco that Trump turned into a centerpiece of his campaign. Not guilty.

This is going to be extremely ugly.

@realDonaldTrump: A disgraceful verdict in the Kate Steinle case! No wonder the people of our Country are so angry with Illegal Immigration.
posted by christopherious at 8:23 PM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

This isn't the venue to discuss whether the jury made the right call, but I'm terrified Trump will use this as a reason why DACA can't be extended, despite it being utterly irrelevant.

A few dozen more moderate Republicans are signing onto a letter essentially telling Ryan to get his shit together and get a DACA fix done before the end of the year. Trump could blow all that up if he decides to go back to blaming immigrants for his woes.
posted by zachlipton at 8:28 PM on November 30, 2017 [13 favorites]

The Telegraph: Donald Trump’s 'working visit' to UK dropped as tensions with Theresa May grow over president's far-Right retweets

Seriously how bad do you have to be to fuck up our diplomatic relationship with the UK. We're like bosom buddies with them, it's basically our closest ally, and now that whole "special relationship" is in the dungheap with the rest of Trump's catastrophes. Shit we convinced those fuckers to go to war in Iraq! Trump can't even manage to go visit and play nice. Once again i'm astonished that this is real life.
posted by dis_integration at 8:31 PM on November 30, 2017 [63 favorites]

I've never been prouder of my city. The prosecutor and defense refused to politicize the case, and upon the realization that the defendant accidentally fired the gun and never intended to shoot anyone, he was only convicted of the lesser charge of being a felon with a gun. Which, yeah, he was. But he never intended to shoot anyone, it appears to have been an accidental discharge, based on the ricochet the bullet made. This could have been a shit show of a trial, and instead the justice system worked. He'll either go to jail or be deported, but he wont be convicted of something he didn't do. Now the Steinle family can grieve their daughter in peace if only the fucking GOP would stop using their daughter as a fucking prop.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:31 PM on November 30, 2017 [64 favorites]

Mueller eventually gets around to all of these “anonymous sources”, and the case for obstruction of justice is a slam dunk, right?

Indeed. And the unanswered question behind the NYT's story about Trump pressuring the Senate Intel Committee is why we're hearing about this at this precise time, when Trump's campaign manager has been indicted on money-laundering charges that don't even touch on his shady 2016 activities, his nat sec adviser looks ready to cut a plea deal over conspiratorial intrigues that occurred before Trump took office, and his thoroughly compromised son-in-law looks like Mueller's next target in this "classic Gambino-style roll-up".

Blunt and Burr are stuck in the same old damage control mode, with Burr lamely excusing Trump's thoroughly inappropriate interference with "Businessmen are paid to skip things that they think they can skip and get away with." as though this isn't an investigation of national significance. The anonymous senator and Republican source for the NYT's story clearly want to put this information out in public, even if they're not ready to do so openly—yet. Politicians are a faint-hearted, herd-like lot, as we've seen since Trump's days as president-elect. They can, however, tell which way the wind blows. Right now, it's not in any direction favorable to the Donald.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:39 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

I mean. Mueller eventually gets around to all of these “anonymous sources”, and the case for obstruction of justice is a slam dunk, right? What am I missing?

What you guys are missing is that proving he tried to interfere isn't sufficient. He has to have done so with "corrupt intent". It's not enough simply to show he forcefully tried to get the Senate to stop its inquiry.

You might believe it's obvious he had corrupt intent but that's not how the justice system works. You have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
posted by Justinian at 8:52 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

True. Though as Renato Mariotti‏ points out, Trump's efforts to get Congress to drop the investigation could be used as evidence that Trump intended to obstruct justice when he fired Comey, as it speaks to his state of mind as being obsessed with ending the Russia investigation. It's a lot harder to argue that he fired Comey for other reasons when he was running around trying to get the investigation ended everywhere else (not to mention that time he went on national TV and said he fired Comey because of the investigation, there's a clue right there).
posted by zachlipton at 8:58 PM on November 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

Yeah sorry, I left that point out. I’m thinking specifically with regards to firing Comey. I presume evidence on his other crimes will come from different avenues. Who knows though.
posted by Brak at 9:06 PM on November 30, 2017

Donors (who would benefit from this bill) would just stop giving to the [republican] party,

That "The party of business" doesn't seem to understand how a monopoly works is hilarious enough. I mean, CenturyLink could send a tech over to kick my dog and take a shit on my wife, and they'd still get my money because they aren't ComCast. CenturyLink seems to understand their position, why can't republicans ?

Their donors aren't going anywhere. The party isn't going anywhere. Stop being a bunch of simpering pre-pubescent man-babies and have some goddamned standards for once.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 9:09 PM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

John Bowden, The Hill: Mulvaney: Authority I have at consumer bureau ‘should frighten people’

Mulvaney on Thursday swiped at Democrats such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (Mass.) and other critics who supported English, dismissing the idea that the agency would have remained independent from the Trump administration.

"As I explained to the folks at the CFPB, this was always going to happen," Mulvaney said.

"If they thought -- if anybody was over there working, if anybody supports the CFPB, Elizabeth Warren, thought that this agency was going to be independent from this president forever, that was never going to happen.

Mulvaney currently holds the top spot on the Wallflower Most-Punchable Face List, with McConnell a distant second.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:12 PM on November 30, 2017 [30 favorites]

You might believe it's obvious he had corrupt intent but that's not how the justice system works. You have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

And that's why Mueller is working at a slow but steady pace with his investigation, flipping one witness at a time on his way up the hierarchy of the Trump administration. Just yesterday, CNN reported Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team has postponed an anticipated grand jury testimony linked to his investigation into Michael Flynn amid growing indications of possible plea deal discussions.

Even though Trump stated in an interview on national freaking television "Regardless of recommendation, I was going to fire Comey", Mueller won't be able to make that obstruction of justice charge stick, legally or politically, unless he first issues indictments for major crimes—ones that either implicate Trump directly or occurred with Trump's awareness. In that respect, we're working backwards since Trump's admitted obstruction is only his most obvious malfeasance.
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:26 PM on November 30, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mulvaney: Authority I have at consumer bureau ‘should frighten people’

To be clear, he's saying that the CFPB doing its job of protecting consumers from financial fraud free of exactly the kind of political interference he's promising to execute should "frighten people".

I assume by "people" he actually means, "corporate people" in the Mitt Romney usage.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:34 PM on November 30, 2017 [9 favorites]

In other news, reports of Tillerson's imminent departure are apparently just a fucked up dominance display from a guy who fired people professionally on the teevee but can't seem to pull it off in real life.
posted by murphy slaw at 9:41 PM on November 30, 2017 [16 favorites]

Durbin joins Harris, Warren, Booker, Sanders in pledging not to vote for budget without DACA fix.
posted by Chrysostom at 9:55 PM on November 30, 2017 [20 favorites]

There has been talk that Trump is going to announce that the US accepts Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv, as capital of Israel. A little while ago the Times of Israel stated that this will happen in a matter of days -- presumably the announcement would be made by Pence on his upcoming visit.

I'm not certain how this fits into Jared's peace process. /sarcasm
posted by CCBC at 11:21 PM on November 30, 2017 [8 favorites]

Well now that you can’t tell the Israelis you’ve got their back with respect to Egypt, cause Putin just punked you there, you have to go all in with the hard security crowd there (and here).

Winning: so tired of it.
posted by notyou at 11:31 PM on November 30, 2017 [1 favorite]

It does like the stupidest and most trivial thing imaginable, but I still don't think Trump will do it. So far it seems to be the rule that he only does things for personal advantage, and I can't imagine any way he can make money out of this. If the Israelis were serious they'd invite him to go halfsies on the Trump Capitol Jerusalem.
posted by Joe in Australia at 11:32 PM on November 30, 2017 [3 favorites]

There are tax plan articles scattered through this megathread, each worse than the last, which I won't try to link to. There should be a front page post as this monstrosity clears the Senate, as there's a lot more horrible to parse through.
Health Care: The mandate repeal is booked as $338 billion in savings. Maybe so for the feds, but the people will pay every dime, plus years of ACA curve-bending, plus the individual market collapse. This is worse than a repeal, since they'll claim it was Obamacare collapsing on its own.
Pass-through tax cut: Pass-through business taxes are simple: you pay ordinary income tax on your profits. All the shenanigans used to be above the line, in how you calculate profits: the Trump tax loss, the Hummer deduction, Ann Romney's horse, etc. Now it's on 17+% off the bottom line, after all that. This is a whole new type of tax cut, and it's huge. Chumps who actually work for a living won't just pay the 15+% payroll/self-employment tax, they'll pay the 17+% I-can't-fake-a-business tax.
Capital-gains and dividends rates: One argument for the super-low rates for capital gains and dividends was that corporations were already paying nearly 40%. Of course, many pay little to none, but some domestic-only corporations actually do pay close to that, so this wasn't a total lie. Now it is: they've halved the corporate rate, yet left these super-low rates alone. Billionaires already pay far lower rates than anyone else, now they'll pay ridiculously lower rates. They will top out at 40% end-to-end marginal (20% corporate, 20% capital-gains), where the middle class begins at 40% marginal (15 payroll/self-employment, 25 income). This is before all the schemes they've left alone, e.g. carried interest. It's rigged monopoly.
Taxing Education: A trident through the heart of education: repealing student loan interest deductions, repealing tuition deductions (including in-kind), and directly taxing college endowment funds. Why are there so many universities and libraries with robber barons' names on them? Because they were greedy, not stupid: Capitalists believe in capital, including human capital. Plowing at least some ill-gotten gains back made the US a rich country, only focusing on your own dynasty is how you make a banana republic.
$1,500,000,000,000 gone: Instead of fixing infrastructure, we'll just feed our seed corn to the rich. Never was so much squandered by so many for so few.
It's amazing that it just took packing all the worst possible things into one bill to get it to pass, as if the big hurdle was screwing everybody too little.
posted by netowl at 11:32 PM on November 30, 2017 [105 favorites]

Staffers for Senate Republicans’ campaign arm seized information on more than 200,000 donors from the House GOP campaign committee over several months this year by breaking into its computer system, three sources with knowledge of the breach told POLITICO.

Politicians are salesmen. They survive by constantly selling themselves to donors. Even though they're allied, poaching another salesman's client list is a high crime, something that affects their profitability, threatens their otherwise nearly bulletproof future. Unlike the financial future of the nation as a whole, their own future is something that actually matters to them.
posted by scalefree at 11:45 PM on November 30, 2017

Erik Prince came to talk to Congress today: Erik Prince tells House investigators he met with Kremlin-linked banker in Seychelles

Erik Prince, a supporter of the Trump presidential campaign and founder of the security firm Blackwater, confirmed to House investigators Thursday that he met with a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin while in the Seychelles earlier this year, according to multiple people familiar with the interview.

Under questioning, Prince told members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence that he had met Kirill Dmitriev, head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, during a secret Jan. 11 meeting in the Seychelles brokered by the United Arab Emirates as part of an apparent attempt to set up backchannel communications between then-President-elect Donald Trump and Moscow.
...
The admission to investigators that he met with Dmitriev is a turnaround for Prince, who initially refused through a spokesman to identify the Russian with whom he had met, and later said he couldn’t remember his name.

He claims he wasn't representing the transition during the meeting. A transcript will be released in the coming days. The article also helpfully points out this occurred around the same time Jared was meeting with the head of Vnesheconombank and asking Kislyak for a secure comms room at the Russian Embassy. So yeah, all totally above board stuff here.
posted by zachlipton at 11:59 PM on November 30, 2017 [21 favorites]

Trump Pressed Top Republicans to End Senate RussiaInquiry

White House spokesman Raj Shah said Trump “at no point has attempted to apply undue influence on committee members.

“There is no evidence of collusion and these investigations must come to a fair and appropriate completion,” Shah said.

Once again I point out that they keep denying collusion but not obstruction of justice.
posted by Room 641-A at 12:53 AM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

I don't consume a lot of broadcast media, but Seth Meyers KILLS in his Closer Look segment. about sexual predators/Matt Lauer/BillO/Trump
posted by mikelieman at 1:59 AM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

That "The party of business" doesn't seem to understand how a monopoly works is hilarious enough. I mean, CenturyLink could send a tech over to kick my dog and take a shit on my wife, and they'd still get my money because they aren't ComCast. CenturyLink seems to understand their position, why can't republicans ?

The Republican Party will still get donor money, sure, but the specific Republicans who failed to toe the line are going to be watching a river of money flowing towards their primary opponents. That's the fear.
posted by AdamCSnider at 3:16 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Honestly, they could probably lower the corporate rates to like 25% and get all the republicans to sign on with tons of terrible grinchesque provisions, but leave out SALT and the individual mandate. They could even go for 28% and pull democrats onboard thereby neutralizing any bad thing the left could possibly find. This isn’t hard. The reason they won’t is that islamofascist Barack Obama proposed 28% a few years ago, so real Americans need 20%. I got duped too many times into believing the Obama x-dimensional chess bullshit, so I’m not gonna say it was intentional but damn. Obama really fucked with their minds.
posted by Glibpaxman at 3:34 AM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

That "The party of business" doesn't seem to understand how a monopoly works is hilarious enough. I mean, CenturyLink could send a tech over to kick my dog and take a shit on my wife, and they'd still get my money because they aren't ComCast. CenturyLink seems to understand their position, why can't republicans ?

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." –Upton Sinclair
posted by entropicamericana at 4:06 AM on December 1, 2017 [24 favorites]

Apparently Daines got Senate Rs to agree to raise the pass through deduction in the bill to 23% (currently 17%). [twitter link] Which, btw, makes the bill more expensive, when they were supposed to spend the night making it cheaper. This bill is such a piece of shit.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:28 AM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]

Red State of all places has a good breakdown on why the Steinle verdict was correct. In case you want something to send to your... um... red state friends and relatives. The details on just how prone the SIG is to accidental fire is especially interesting. A snippet (and the bold is from the article.)

Have We Been Lied To About The Kate Steinle Case?: A bleeding-heart jury in a liberal sanctuary city...or is there more to it?

The defense also presented evidence regarding the SIG Sauer’s propensity to accidentally fire. One of Garcia Zarate’s attorneys detailed the issues in a San Francisco Examiner article. [...]

So, we have a defendant with zero connection to Steinle. He had a history of drug crimes but no known violent crimes. The bullet that killed Steinle hit the ground and then ricocheted upwards. There was a video possibly showing another group of people disposing of the gun where Garcia Zarate said he found it.

Reviewing the SIG Sauer website shows these handguns cost $1,000 or more. You can see how defense counsel could easily argue that a homeless illegal immigrant would be unfamiliar with one.

All of this adds up to the defense presenting a plausible explanation for how Garcia Zarate could have fired the gun and killed Steinle by accident. That’s reasonable doubt.

The prosecutors were under tremendous political pressure. People wanted Kate Steinle’s killer’s head on a platter, even before Donald Trump ever tweeted her name.

So it’s not that surprising that “San Francisco prosecutors told the jury that Garcia Zarate intentionally brought the gun to the pier that day with the intent of doing harm, aimed the gun toward Steinle and pulled the trigger,” as the Chronicle reported, adding that the Assistant District Attorney also “spent much of the trial seeking to prove the gun that killed Steinle couldn’t have fired without a firm pull of the trigger.”

This seems to be a classic example of prosecutorial overreach.They pushed hard for a first degree murder verdict, which requires not only proving that the defendant killed the victim, but that he did it intentionally, and that it was premeditated (planned or thought out beforehand).

Focusing their strategy on the lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter would have allowed the prosecutors to simply argue that Garcia Zarate acted in a criminally negligent way that resulted in Steinle’s death: he knew the object was a gun, he knew guns are dangerous, he should have known not to point it in the direction of people, etc.

Add to all of this that four-hour meandering police interrogation that allowed defense counsel to present their client as confused and intimidated by the police. Just one more little piece of the puzzle making it easier for defense counsel to portray their client as a naive fool who picked up a gun and caused a terrible accident rather than a vicious killer who stalked his victim.

posted by chris24 at 4:38 AM on December 1, 2017 [52 favorites]

Called & faxed Tillis & Burr this AM. Was able to leave vmails on all 3 of Tillis' office numbers. :eft a vmail on Burr's DC number, his local NC vmail inbox is full. Wonder why? /s
posted by yoga at 4:59 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

and now that whole "special relationship" is in the dungheap with the rest of Trump's catastrophes.

Like the Office of The President and the American People, kind of special relationship.

Credit where due, GOP, you really nailed it with this one. Very thorough. Impressive.
posted by petebest at 5:29 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

So much winning.

@WestWingReport
Surprise: Unemployment rates have been rising in Rust Belt for months:
October rates:
- Michigan: 4.5% (July: 3.7%)
- Ohio: 5.1% (May: 4.9%)
- Indiana: 3.9% (June: 3.0%)
- Wisconsin: 3.4% (May: 3.1%)
- WestVirginia: 5.1% (May 4.5%)
(source: http://BLS.gov )
posted by chris24 at 5:32 AM on December 1, 2017 [22 favorites]

From Michael Elleman, IISS Senior Fellow for Missile Defence.

The New Hwasong-15 ICBM: A Significant Improvement That May be Ready as Early as 2018

Taken together, and applying conservative assumptions about the second-stage propulsion system, it now appears that the Hwasong-15 can deliver a 1,000-kg payload to any point on the US mainland. North Korea has almost certainly developed a nuclear warhead that weighs less than 700 kg, if not one considerably lighter.

posted by chris24 at 5:35 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Red State of all places has a good breakdown on why the Steinle verdict was correct. In case you want something to send to your... um... red state friends and relatives.

I've been fighting a similar good fight, pointing out that if this WAS a complete open-and-shut conviction, at least one of the following happened:

A) The evidence just wasn't there for the case the prosecution presented. I mean, I wasn't there (and neither were you, one might whisper in their shell-pink ears), but it they really tried to prove that a nonviolent criminal morphed into a dark Johnny Cash song protagonist overnight and said "I'm going down to the docks today and taking out all of my anti-Caucasian anger on some random white girl, plus since I'm such a crack shot I'll challenge myself by ricocheting it," well... that would be, at the very least, eyebrow-raising.

B) The prosecution _really_ screwed something up. Again, I wasn't there, so I didn't see what and who were presented. But maybe someone got caught in an obvious lie or exaggeration or something that tainted their remaining credibility. Or...

C) San Francisco is SUCH a depraved cesspool of anti-American filth that all twelve jurors -- not just one or two to cause a hung jury mistrial, but all of them -- were hardcore jury nullification ideologues bent on ignoring all evidence, sticking it to Trump and America and reestablishing Aztlan.

I know which of those sound more plausible to me. But then again, I'm one of Those People.
posted by delfin at 5:56 AM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

I don't consume a lot of broadcast media, but Seth Meyers KILLS in his Closer Look segment. about sexual predators/Matt Lauer/BillO/Trump
posted by mikelieman at 1:59 AM on December 1 [6 favorites +] [!]

After seeing this — and I agree Meyers is really doing a saint's job these days, I went to youtube to find that rally. And it is a frightening and depressing spectacle, I'm taking it in little bits because it makes me want to throw up every five minutes. BUT, it again confirms my impression that Trump is not demented. He is stupid, racist, bigoted, probably has a dangerous personality disorder, and is probably under duress because he is uniquely incompetent for his job. But non of the demented people I've know personally have acted like this, and even Reagan, who suffered from Alzheimers and was a despicable politician and president didn't act like this.
The point here is: there is no excuse for Trump's behavior, or for the people who adore him and vote for him. He, and they have chosen to be who they are and do what they do, and they need to be held responsible for their actions.
How to deal with the aftermath of political corruption and fascism/nazism is always really difficult, and I don't think anyone has found the perfect plan of action. But the failure to hold nazis and racists responsible has led to strong repercussions in Germany, Italy, Spain and many other countries, in the form of terror and radical politics.
posted by mumimor at 6:04 AM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

OH HO!

@SteveKopack

BREAKING FROM SPECIAL COUNSEL: The court has scheduled a plea hearing for Lieutenant General Michael T. Flynn (Ret.), 58, of Alexandria, Va., at 10:30 a.m.

(Why yes, it is my birthday.)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:16 AM on December 1, 2017 [122 favorites]

On the one hand, Muellermas came early this year! On the other hand, please don't let the Flynn news distract you from the disastrous tax bill, which we still have hopes of killing.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 6:20 AM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

MSNBC is saying he will plead to making false statements to the FBI.
posted by Room 641-A at 6:20 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

CNN/MSNBC are reporting Flynn has been charged with making false statements to the FBI, plea hearing at 10:30 as noted above.

I can't tell how good this is yet- my hope is that he is dead-to-rights on much more serious charges, and pleading guilty to these offenses shows that he is cooperating and does indeed have the "goods" to make such a deal. Let's start knocking some dominos down.
posted by andruwjones26 at 6:20 AM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

Daniel Dale extrapolating a bit from there: "Flynn pleading guilty to a single charge obviously suggests, as news reports suggested, that he has agreed to provide Mueller with information."

Muellermas comes early (or, for Trump, a day late...)!
posted by marshmallow peep at 6:21 AM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

The New York Times on Flynn's guilty plea.

This nothing-burger now comes with two pickles.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:27 AM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

God, I'm so weary of the heartache and frustration and disappointment that I don't dare allow myself to get happy, even about this. "It's nothing," I tell myself. "They only got him on one small thing, and even if it's more, they'll fuck it up." That's what the last two years have done to my optimism.
posted by middleclasstool at 6:27 AM on December 1, 2017 [27 favorites]

All the pundits have been saying Mueller won't give Flynn a deal without handing over Jr or Kushner. (Or Trump!)
posted by Room 641-A at 6:30 AM on December 1, 2017

@prdickinson: "The charges. Read carefully. The itemized paragraphs are paraphrasing (if not quoting) what Flynn told the FBI - and those statements have obviously been determined by Mueller to be demonstrably false. In other words, Flynn was working with Russia as a member of Trump’s team."
posted by Buntix at 6:32 AM on December 1, 2017 [47 favorites]

I am in chat being excited about the indictment if anybody else needs to squee for a while!
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:34 AM on December 1, 2017 [17 favorites]

From the NYT article on Flynn:

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, will plead guilty on Friday to lying to the F.B.I. about a conversation with the Russian ambassador last December.

The plea was the latest indication that Mr. Flynn was cooperating with the special counsel’s investigation into Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election. Mr. Flynn was scheduled to appear in federal court in Washington at 10:30 on Friday morning.

Isn't it Red Velvet season? *smacks lips*
posted by petebest at 6:34 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

A reality check: Donald Trump could have picked any adult US Citizen to be National Security Adviser, gaining access to literally all Federal government secrets, no Senate confirmation required. He chose a known corrupt foreign agent whom he had been specifically warned against picking by his presidential predecessor. That man has now pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his working in the interests of the Russian Federation.

The only reasonable explanation to all this is that The President of the United States is himself an agent of the Russian Federation, because they have leverage on him.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 6:36 AM on December 1, 2017 [101 favorites]

I hope Mueller can keep him safe; how do you protect a witness when the crime boss that wants him out of the way is the head of the executive branch, who has ties to a notorious murderer of politically inconvenient witnesses?
posted by contraption at 6:37 AM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

"It's nothing," I tell myself. "They only got him on one small thing, and even if it's more, they'll fuck it up."

I feel your exhaustion and despair. Who here does not?

BUT:

* The whole team in the WH is shambolic, and led by a world-class incompetent
* Mueller is ultra-competent at his job, and his team has centuries of experience between them
* So far, this is playing out exactly according to how successful mob takedowns work
* The evidence in the public domain is huge enough: what more has Mueller got?

And remember, this is just one of the major threats to 45. The sexual abuse, the emoluments clause, his visibly deteriorating state - none of these is going away, all are accelerating.

Yes, it's terrible. Yes, it will get worse. But 2018 is nearly here, and it will NOT be a good year for 45 or the GOP. We have to push on. And we can legitimately enjoy the second act unfold.
posted by Devonian at 6:44 AM on December 1, 2017 [89 favorites]

The only reasonable explanation to all this is that The President of the United States is himself an agent of the Russian Federation, because they have leverage on him.
Or, he's an idiot.
posted by MtDewd at 6:55 AM on December 1, 2017 [14 favorites]

whom he had been specifically warned against picking by his presidential predecessor

Given that he has built his entire political career on doing the polar opposite of what his predecessor did, this could actually explain part of his willingness to pick Flynn.
posted by jontyjago at 7:10 AM on December 1, 2017 [21 favorites]

WASHINGTON — President Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael T. Flynn, will plead guilty on Friday to lying to the F.B.I. about a conversation with the Russian ambassador last December.

It's two years to the day since Mike Flynn and Jill Stein were at the big kids table in Moscow.

MOSCOW, DECEMBER 1, 2015 - To mark ten years since its flagship English-language news channel aired its first broadcast, RT will host an event bringing together prominent politicians, foreign policy experts, and media executives from around the world.

Life comes at you fast ...
posted by octobersurprise at 7:17 AM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

The timing of the one count is devastating for Trump. Jan 24 - Flynn is in the White House, they can no longer claim the investigation only involved the campaign. Jan 26 - Sally Yates unmasks intelligence about Flynn and the Russians, and warns the White House counsel over whatever she read. Jan 27 - Trump doesn't fire Flynn or do anything about the warning, instead he pressures Comey for a loyalty oath over dinner. Jan 30 - Trump fires Yates. We don't know the content of Flynn's communications, or exactly what Yates saw that prompted her to immediately warn the White House, but Mueller does. We're getting very, very close to corrupt intent.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:20 AM on December 1, 2017 [112 favorites]

Lying to the FBI is such a ridiculously handy charge for prosecutors and people keep falling into the trap thinking they can lie their way out of it. Get a fucking lawyer before you talk to anyone, the lawyer can answer everything for you, you don't risk falling into the obvious rat trap of federal prosecution. This is like child's play and the convictions are racking up just because these idiots are such incompetent boobs at running a conspiracy.
posted by Talez at 7:23 AM on December 1, 2017 [30 favorites]

The only reasonable explanation to all this is that The President of the United States is himself an agent of the Russian Federation, because they have leverage on him.

Or, he's an idiot.

Or both.

Either seems to be no deterrent to a trial, hearing, or other legal proceedings if things come to that. What about dementia?
posted by ZeusHumms at 7:23 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Trump's ego would probably be the main impediment to a dementia defense. How could the greatest mind in the history of human civilization be suffering from dementia?
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:27 AM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

It's two years to the day since Mike Flynn and Jill Stein were at the big kids table in Moscow.

And 15 months to when there were rumors Trump wanted Flynn for his VP.

Ironically, Flynn would later be fired ostensibly for lying to Trump's, I mean, Paul Manafort's eventual pick for VP.

While Pence would have us believe he knew nothing of Flynn's shenanigans, if Mueller has flipped Flynn, Pence would be an obvious target for Mueller to go after soon.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:32 AM on December 1, 2017 [35 favorites]

Mod note: Y'all let's maybe hold off on yet another chain of line-of-succession speculation, likewise with the random lyrics/poems riffing. I know we all want to know what's going down in Pleatown but let's not just idly fill time in here while we wait.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:51 AM on December 1, 2017 [20 favorites]

From what I gather the next big thing we can expect re: Flynn is a fairly detailed "stipulations of facts" document that Flynn agrees to, probably this afternoon.
posted by scalefree at 8:00 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Hi, petebest, ValuedContributor ™, MegaThread News, Question for the Mods:

Should Flynn's plea (waiving indictment, holy shit), be a separate FPP where we can frolic in cake unabashedly?

Follow-up question; howabout bashedly?
posted by petebest at 8:02 AM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

Twitter is noticing similarities between the Flynn lies and Trump tweets.

But get this: The charging document says Flynn lied about a Dec. 29 convo with Kislyak in which Kislyak said Russia wouldn’t retaliate on sanctions *at his request.*

The day after tweet from Trump? The infamous...

Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!

"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there."
posted by Talez at 8:06 AM on December 1, 2017 [27 favorites]

I just spent a half an hour reading through the Congressional Record so I could accurately mean tweet at Pat Toomey. What is my life.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:06 AM on December 1, 2017 [108 favorites]

@ZeddRebel
False statements alone is a helluva deal for a guy facing what he was facing. He must have a doozy of a story.
posted by chris24 at 8:09 AM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

Your life is great soren_lorensen and I'm proud of you.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:09 AM on December 1, 2017 [39 favorites]

Twitter is a public broadcast evidence locker for Mueller at this point.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:10 AM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

The terseness of the charges in UNITED STATES OF AMERICA V. MICHAEL T. FLYNN are a thing of beauty:

On or about January 24, 2017, defendant MICHAEL T. FLYNN did wilfully and knowingly make materially false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements and representations in a matter within the jurisdiction of the executive branch of Government of the United States, to wit, the defendant falsely stated and represented to agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, in Washington, D.C., that:
(i) On or about December 29, 2016, FLYNN did not ask the Government of Russia's Ambassador to the United States ("Russian Ambassador") to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia that same day; and FLYNN did not recall the Russian Ambassador subsequently telling him that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of his request; and
(ii) On or about December 22, 2016, FLYNN did not ask the Russian Ambassador to delay the vote on or defeat a pending United Nations Security Council resolution; and that the Russian Ambassador subsequently never described to FLYNN Russia's response to his request.

And remember how we learned that as soon as the Donald was in office Trump seemed prepared to lift Russia sanctions 'in exchange for absolutely nothing' (Business Insider)?
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:12 AM on December 1, 2017 [15 favorites]

Have you all called your senators today? We have a tiny window here where we might be able to beat the damn tax bill. Please, in honor of World AIDS Day, call and save the ACA, Medicaid and Medicare.
posted by mcduff at 8:12 AM on December 1, 2017 [28 favorites]

Laura Litvan of Bloomberg: Big potential problem for GOP leaders: Susan Collins disputes Cornyn’s claim that they have her support for the GOP tax bill. (They see her as their 50th and pivotal vote)

“I can’t imagine why Senator Cornyn is speaking for me,” she told me. “I speak for myself”
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:13 AM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

ABC News’ @BrianRoss reports that Flynn is prepared to testify President Trump directed him to make contact with Russians
posted by leotrotsky at 8:15 AM on December 1, 2017 [113 favorites]

Should Flynn's plea (waiving indictment, holy shit), be a separate FPP where we can frolic in cake unabashedly?

If there turns out to be a post's worth of content about it, that'd be alright, yeah. If it's mostly in service of a "a thing is maybe finally happening!" feeling, I would hold off until that post's-worth materializes.

More generally we're probably due a new catch-all thread with this comment count, so someone looking to put that together in any case would be reasonable. I'd ask whoever to keep in mind our current politics reset efforts in doing so.
posted by cortex at 8:15 AM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

The thing about Trump calling the Stein verdict disgraceful is that he is not just insulting the judicial system. He is also directly insulting the jury that heard and considered the evidence and charges and rendered a verdict.
posted by srboisvert at 8:16 AM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

False statements alone is a helluva deal for a guy facing what he was facing. He must have a doozy of a story.

Or IOKIYAR is in full effect. Let's not get too carried away here, we cannot count on the Flynn charges taking down anyone. It's possible, though pretty unlikely, that this is the extent of the charges in the entire investigation. See, it was just one bad apple! Totally corruption-free now!

Meanwhile boatloads of people would still vote for Trump even if it turns out that he was on a three-way conference call with Flynn and the ambassador. I just hope there aren't a bunch of folks watching the Flynn-show instead of calling their senators about this terrible tax nonsense.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:17 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

ABC News’ @BrianRoss reports that Flynn is prepared to testify President Trump directed him to make contact with Russians

That is at least CAKECON 3.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:18 AM on December 1, 2017 [54 favorites]

Stupid question, perhaps: if Trump did in fact order Flynn to make contact with the Russians, what is the specific takeaway from that? Is it a crime, does it indicate perjury about this taking place, or is it just ("just," she says) corruption?
posted by marshmallow peep at 8:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

False statements alone is a helluva deal for a guy facing what he was facing. He must have a doozy of a story.
---
ABC News’ @BrianRoss reports that Flynn is prepared to testify President Trump directed him to make contact with Russians


That'll work.


And now we know why Donny's been manically insane and racist lately.
posted by chris24 at 8:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [24 favorites]

The clip from ABC's This Week: 'Michael Flynn promised "full cooperation to the Mueller team" and is prepared to testify that as a candidate, Donald Trump "directed him to make contact with the Russians."'
posted by stopgap at 8:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [25 favorites]

So Flynn is prepared to testify against President Trump and members of Trump's family and others in the White House. Flynn decided to cooperate in the last 24 hours both because it's "the right thing for his country" and because of his mounting personal legal bills. This is a helluva leak coming from Flynn's side. This looks like the real deal.
posted by stopgap at 8:23 AM on December 1, 2017 [36 favorites]

Michael Flynn was fired ostensibly for lying to the Vice President in claiming that he did not contact the Russian ambassador regarding sanctions. Now, as part of a felony guilty plea, he is testifying that he was specifically instructed to contact the Russian ambassador regarding those sanctions, by the President.

Should be an interesting day for the White House communications team.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:24 AM on December 1, 2017 [40 favorites]

Stupid question, perhaps: if Trump did in fact order Flynn to make contact with the Russians, what is the specific takeaway from that? Is it a crime, does it indicate perjury about this taking place, or is it just ("just," she says) corruption?

I understand that the hardest part about proving obstruction of justice (e.g. relating to Comey's firing) is proving "corrupt intent." This goes a long way towards that, regardless of whatever other crimes may be implicated.
posted by stopgap at 8:25 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

The talk radio spin was already in play; "Mueller will threaten Flynn's son to force Flynn to say exactly what Mueller wants him to, even if it isn't true."

Uh-huh.
posted by delfin at 8:25 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

If this is true... hoo boy. All I can say is holy shitballs.
posted by azpenguin at 8:25 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

It's not just what Flynn is prepared to testify that matters, it's what other corroborating evidence exists from others involved, in emails, etc. I can only assume that, as Mueller has pressed the Flynn button, the rest of the framework on that matter is substantial - otherwise the WH can say 'We fired the guy for lying. He's copped to you for lying. He's a liar. He's lying now'.

That avenue has to have been closed already.
posted by Devonian at 8:27 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

The nerdiest nerd thing on twitter right now is joke rewrites of Wlm. Carlos Williams' "This Is Just To Say."

I combined it with today's news:

I have taken
the plea
that was on
the table

that's why
Don was probably
tweeting
'fore breakfast

Forgive me
I'll say dasvidaniya
so long
Lock me up.
posted by NorthernLite at 8:27 AM on December 1, 2017 [33 favorites]

You know, three hours ago I was thinking "man, this week has had so many huge news stories that it felt like it went on forever" and now the rest of them seem trivial by comparison.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:28 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

This makes sense since Mueller runs a tight ship, but if Trump was so insane lately just from the mounting pressure and not knowledge of this, well, today and tomorrow morning should be interesting on Twitter.

@MikeDelMoro (ABC)
Sources with direct knowledge tell ABC News the President & his legal team learned about the Flynn plea via news reports this morning.
posted by chris24 at 8:30 AM on December 1, 2017 [54 favorites]

Just now: AP breaking news says that Cornyn says the Republicans have the votes to pass the tax bill
posted by harriet vane at 8:31 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

If Senator Collins is considering the costs and benefits of being perceived as a check on this administration's ability to enact its agenda, I hope she's watching the news this morning
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:31 AM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

Now, as part of a felony guilty plea, he is testifying that he was specifically instructed to contact the Russian ambassador regarding those sanctions, by the President.

A significant detail is that Trump was not President at the time the instructions were given. Everything that happened before inauguration was private citizens directly working to undermine the foreign policy of the United States.
posted by Uncle Ira at 8:33 AM on December 1, 2017 [42 favorites]

As somebody who knows nothing about the military, I'm curious as to whether Flynn, even as a retired general, will face some kind of official censure or punishment through the Army after he pleads guilty. Stripped of his rank? Loss of military benefits? Special additional charges? How does this work?

I'd settle for forcing him to have to get his health care through the private market for life, and having to register as a Democrat so that, thus transformed into an America-hater, flag-wavers howl forever about how he's a disgrace to the armed forces.
posted by Rykey at 8:33 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Should be an interesting day for the White House communications team.

Their first draft reported by CNN’s Gloria Borger was pretty funny:

“One source close to the president attempted to mitigate the severity of the charge against Flynn by pointing out that everyone lies in Washington”

I think it's safe to assume that this source "close to the president" is the president.
posted by peeedro at 8:34 AM on December 1, 2017 [73 favorites]

Sounds more like John Barron.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:36 AM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]

This nothing-burger now comes with two pickles.

I hope this is a 2017 version of Stone Soup: Mueller comes to town with his band of prosecutors, and finds no one willing to talk to them. So they make a fire and begin pretending to flip invisible items on the grill. When the curious townsfolk ask what they're doing, Mueller says, "We're making Nothing Burgers! Would you like one?" One by one, he pretends to engage them in small talk, and trapping each in a lie, they are indicted on a lesser charge in exchange for providing some ingredient for the burgers. Manafort buns, Papadapoulous lettuce and tomatoes, Flynn pickles. Finally, the local bigshot Trump is tricked into confessing and is forced to finish the burgers with some very dry, but strangely tasty, well-done patties.
posted by mubba at 8:38 AM on December 1, 2017 [70 favorites]

Just now: AP breaking news says that Cornyn says the Republicans have the votes to pass the tax bill

@TopherSpiro (Senior Fellow, healthcare, Center for American Progress)
He's bluffing. Remember, Cornyn isn't good at math. Focus on Collins.

---

They've lied about votes multiple times before on this and Trumpcare. And Topher is one of the best follows on healthcare.

Keep calling!!
posted by chris24 at 8:38 AM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]

Just now: AP breaking news says that Cornyn says the Republicans have the votes to pass the tax bill

He's been saying that, but The Hill says Flake, Corker, and Collins are still undecided.
posted by leotrotsky at 8:40 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Of course Trump said this, he's the one who told him to talk to Russia so by definition it was smart. Lol.

@kylegriffin1
Reminder: Trump in February 2017 on Flynn’s talks with Russia: “I don't think he did anything wrong, if anything he did something right.”

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 8:41 AM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

Flynn is huge news, but if I had to wager, I'd say Mueller is nowhere close to done.
posted by azpenguin at 8:42 AM on December 1, 2017 [20 favorites]

Collins says Cornyn is full of shit.

@LauraLitvan
Big potential problem for GOP leaders: Susan Collins disputes Cornyn’s claim that they have her support for the GOP tax bill. (They see her as their 50th and pivotal vote)
“I can’t imagine why Senator Cornyn is speaking for me,” she told me. “I speak for myself”
posted by chris24 at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2017 [23 favorites]

On the first day of muellermas ,Mueller have to me ... a guilty plea from Washington DC.

I hate my contrasts of my feelings between the tax bill and the Flynn hearing.

I hope that the news scares off someone from voting yes.
posted by AlexiaSky at 8:45 AM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

On one hand I think that even if Flynn testifies against Trump, still nothing will happen until 2018 or 2020 – Trump is only as accountable as congress wants him to be, which is not at all. On the other hand I wonder if passing this terrible tax bill will allow congress to feel they've gotten all they're going to get from him. If it passes – I hope it doesn't, but if it does – maybe they'll decide that now is the time to pull the ripcord.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 8:46 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Did you know you can Resistbot the White House?

Flynn is going to testify. The jig is up. It's all going to come crashing down around your ears, and it'll take your whole family and fortune with it. You're toast. You might as well get out now while you still can.

Damn, but that felt good.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:50 AM on December 1, 2017 [48 favorites]

And if it doesn't pass - deo volente - then they may yank the handle anyway, because with 45 in place they're going nowhere?

You can make arguments from any angle, because this shitstorm is hurricane strength now and who knows where the next cow will land.
posted by Devonian at 8:51 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

I hope that the news scares off someone from voting yes.

I hope that, in addition to today's news; yet another instance of a man claiming to speak for a woman, ensures someone votes no.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 8:52 AM on December 1, 2017 [31 favorites]

PSA: Anyone contacting the White House to say that they're all going down in flames should clarify that they are speaking metaphorically
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 8:54 AM on December 1, 2017 [61 favorites]

The timing of the one count is devastating for Trump. Jan 24 - Flynn is in the White House, they can no longer claim the investigation only involved the campaign. Jan 26 - Sally Yates unmasks intelligence about Flynn and the Russians, and warns the White House counsel over whatever she read. Jan 27 - Trump doesn't fire Flynn or do anything about the warning, instead he pressures Comey for a loyalty oath over dinner. Jan 30 - Trump fires Yates.

And earlier this week, CNN reported, Top White House lawyer prepares for questioning in Russia probe:

Don McGahn is expected to be interviewed in the coming weeks in special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation[....] The 49-year-old former Federal Election commissioner acted as a conduit of information to Trump before the President decided to fire National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and FBI Director James Comey. McGahn also served as the Trump presidential campaign's chief counsel while he was still a partner in private practice at the law firm Jones Day.

McGahn spoke with former acting Attorney General Sally Yates about Flynn less than a week after the inauguration. Yates, an Obama appointee whom Trump also fired, said she warned McGahn about Flynn's international work.[...]

She also told McGahn that the FBI interviewed Flynn. Mueller later inherited that FBI investigation, which now delves into Russian election meddling, potential collusion with Russians by the Trump campaign and potential obstruction of justice as it reacted to the probe. Flynn lost his White House job in February.

The Comey firing similarly put McGahn in a central role. As White House counsel, McGahn objected to a termination letter Trump wanted to send to Comey in May, according to The New York Times. McGahn marked up sections of it and suggested changes. Mueller's office has a copy of the letter, the Times reported in September. It's not clear how much of the letter addressed Trump's frustration with the Russia investigation.

McGahn also warned the President that firing Comey wouldn't stop the Russia investigation, and arranged for the President to meet with Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein to talk about Comey. Trump fired Comey the next day, using a letter from Rosenstein as the initial justification.

Flipping Flynn is going to set off a whole chain of dominoes, so to speak.
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:54 AM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

"If in the first act you have hung a pistol on the wall, then in the following one it should be fired. Otherwise don't put it there."

I'm sure Mueller is talking to this Chekhov guy too
posted by kurumi at 8:55 AM on December 1, 2017 [56 favorites]

> Flynn is huge news, but if I had to wager, I'd say Mueller is nowhere close to done.

For those of you keeping score, here is a handy Daily Kos table comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions.

The Obama administration had zero - none, zip, nada - criminal indictments or convictions in its entire 8 year term, and the Trump administration has already blown past the Clinton (2,1), H. W. Bush (1,1), Carter (1,0), and Ford (1,1) administrations.

There's George W. Bush (16,16) and Reagan (26,16) in the sights of the Trump administration now, and then of course there's the aspirational goal of the Nixon administration, with 76 indictments, 55 convictions, and 15 prison sentences.

Did you notice what the last three had in common with the Trump administration? Yeah, maybe we shouldn't be letting an obviously criminal and corrupt group of people run the country. Why, they might loot the public treasury of - what's an absurdly high number? - let's say ONE TRILLION DOLLARS!

What's that, you say? They're doing that in broad daylight, as we speak? Why, I never ...!
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:59 AM on December 1, 2017 [91 favorites]

I would give my left pinky finger for Hillary Clinton to tweet LOCK HIM UP today. I mean... I know she won't do that because she's probably a better person than I am but goddamn would I explode in a beautiful schadenfreude firework if that happened.

I guess we know why Trump has been particularly unhinged for the last 2 weeks? The walls really must feel like they are closing in on him.
posted by Justinian at 8:59 AM on December 1, 2017 [39 favorites]

It does give me some comfort to think that no decent defense lawyer within a thousand miles of D.C. would be willing to touch any of trump's people with a ten foot pole. As with all things, he's surrounded himself with greedy incompetents, the only people willing to cast their lot with his corrupt, doomed enterprise.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:03 AM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

The Loch Ness Monster: Trump is only as accountable as congress wants him to be, which is not at all.

Except Mueller has been working with New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman (Aug. 30, 2017) at least on its investigation into Paul Manafort and his financial transactions, serves as a strategy to outmaneuver Trump's possible pardons (Nov. 3, 2017 -- interesting notes about NY's laws regarding being tried at the National level), but also works to bypass a do-nothing Congress if they don't act upon Trump's various illegal activities. Collusion is bad as a president, but money laundering or tax avoidance are illegal at the state level.

Would Congress shrug their shoulders if Trump was in jail in New York? Is it possible for the President to serve from prison?
posted by filthy light thief at 9:07 AM on December 1, 2017 [14 favorites]

I would give my left pinky finger for Hillary Clinton to tweet LOCK HIM UP today. I mean... I know she won't do that because she's probably a better person than I am but goddamn would I explode in a beautiful schadenfreude firework if that happened.

Would you settle for an Old Testament Biblical justice quote from James Comey? “But justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream” Amos 5:24.
posted by scalefree at 9:09 AM on December 1, 2017 [60 favorites]

CNN now reporting that Flake is a Yes on the bill; Graham says GOP now has votes for passage.

This is some bull shit.
posted by darkstar at 9:09 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

If Trump is intent on preventing Mueller from charging his family or perhaps himself, now is the time to fire Mueller. Allowing Mueller to proceed will only make the act of firing him more dangerous. This could all go down _today_.

Perhaps, as Senator Flake once proposed, Congress could hire Mueller as a special prosecutor to continue his investigation. If not, the only acceptable response to Mueller's firing would be immediate impeachment of the President for obstructing justice. There would be no cause to wait.

Barring that, we would be experiencing an authoritarian coup, the usurpation of the Constitution and the imposition of a system in which not all citizens are subject to the rule of law. The only appropriate response would be massive civil unrest.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

Maybe they realize there won't be anybody to sign the tax bill into law if they don't do it now
posted by birdheist at 9:11 AM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

The PM news programme on Radio 4 just followed a clip of crowds shouting "LOCK HER UP!" during the campaign with people shouting "LOCK HIM UP!" outside the Flynn courthouse appearance.

That must have been a pleasurable sequence to edit.
posted by Devonian at 9:12 AM on December 1, 2017 [43 favorites]

Is there any explanation for Flake's voting Yes? Does anyone know what he could possibly gain from this?
posted by halation at 9:17 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Would Congress shrug their shoulders if Trump was in jail in New York? Is it possible for the President to serve from prison?

I can't imagine that you could arrest a federal executive for state crimes while in office.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:17 AM on December 1, 2017

Life comes at you fast. New: The White House just abruptly canceled a scheduled pool spray with President Trump and a visiting dignitary. No explanation was given.
posted by scalefree at 9:18 AM on December 1, 2017 [35 favorites]

Which probably has nothing to do with anything, scalefree, other than the handlers said, hmm, he's foaming at the mouth and wants to play golf, maybe we better cancel his playdates today.
posted by Melismata at 9:20 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Word on Twitter is that Flake is saying that he's voting yes in exchange for a firm commitment to pass legislation protecting DACA recipients. Apparently he trusts the GOP leadership? That seems ill-advised.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 9:20 AM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

Flake statement. Basically a promise on DACA and "fiscal responsibility."
posted by leotrotsky at 9:20 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

I needed this today.

I really, really needed this Flynn news. Thank you for breaking it here thoughtfully and in context, everybody. We’ve been gathering here in these threads for months upon months (*waves to mods*) discussing the possibility of something like this, and now here we are. I’m grateful we have a congenial place in which to celebrate and discuss.

Here’s to this being the first of many dominoes to tumble.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:21 AM on December 1, 2017 [30 favorites]

Now would be a great time for another GOP senator to jump ship in exchange for their own hobbyhorses.
posted by leotrotsky at 9:21 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

I know Trump loves saying "Merry Christmas" but is there a chance he could warm up to "Treason's Greetings?"
posted by guiseroom at 9:23 AM on December 1, 2017 [57 favorites]

Which probably has nothing to do with anything, scalefree, other than the handlers said, hmm, he's foaming at the mouth and wants to play golf, maybe we better cancel his playdates today.

Yeah sorry, didn't mean to imply anything more. It's just delightful to see this evidence of them scrambling to cover for him.
posted by scalefree at 9:23 AM on December 1, 2017

Congress could hire Mueller, but I’m pretty sure he’d have less power as a congressional investigator vs. as a special prosecutor in the DOJ. Congress can’t charge people with crimes, or prosecute them in court.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:23 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

I can't imagine that you could arrest a federal executive for state crimes while in office.

Well, Ulysses S Grant once got arrested for speeding. They apparently let him off with a fine, though, because they weren't sure where their authority extended, exactly.
posted by halation at 9:24 AM on December 1, 2017 [14 favorites]

Their donors aren't going anywhere. The party isn't going anywhere. Stop being a bunch of simpering pre-pubescent man-babies and have some goddamned standards for once.

The problem isn't that Republican politicians don't have standards. The problem is that Republican politicians' standards are, well, deplorable. And they keep on proving it.
posted by Gelatin at 9:26 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

On this Senate vote, I've lost track, is this one of those "procedural, move it along for reconciliation with a House versions then we'll need to vote again"? Or is this the last time they'll need to vote on it if it passes?
posted by achrise at 9:28 AM on December 1, 2017

Don't give up on the tax bill until they actually vote. McConnell can claim they have 50 votes, but that's just posturing. And Collins or Flake can say theyre supporting it but who the hell knows. THEY HAVEN'T EVEN WRITTEN THE DAMN THING YET!

And furthermore, I would not be at all surprised if old man McCain said he supported it just so he could troll all his "friends" one more time.

It looks bad, but anything can happen.
posted by Glibpaxman at 9:28 AM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

It would either need to be reconciled with the House version or the House would have to agree to the Senate version.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:29 AM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

I want Senator McCain to do the thumbs down thing again. That was cool!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:29 AM on December 1, 2017 [18 favorites]

Flake's refusal to be Trump's hand puppet does not preclude his being corporate America's hand puppet, even if he isn't running again. He knows who bought and paid for him to get this far.

This may be "be seen voting Aye after ensuring the House dingbats will vote Nay" performance art. Occam's Razor suggests that he's just a supply-side turd at heart.
posted by delfin at 9:32 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

CARDS AGAINST HUMANITY STOPS THE WALL

Right now, the federal government is working to pour billions of your tax dollars into building a wall between the United States and Mexico, despite the fact that walls have been militarily obsolete since the advent of gunpowder.

Last month, 150,000 people paid us $15 to save America with six days of incredible stunts and surprises. For Day One, we used some of the money to purchase a plot of vacant land on the US/Mexico border and retain a law firm specializing in eminent domain to make it as time-consuming and expensive as possible for Trump to build his preposterous wall.

The whole legal process can take quite a long time — who knows, maybe longer than the current president will be in office? For however long it takes, we are ready for a protracted resistance to any attempts by the government to build a wall on this land.

– Our lawyers at Graves, Dougherty, Hearon, & Moody

posted by christopherious at 9:32 AM on December 1, 2017 [55 favorites]

Serious question: Is there a procedure in place where one of these senate critters could ask to postpone the vote due to not knowing wtf is happening with the president? I mean, it would be nice if someone would at least say it.
posted by fluffy battle kitten at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

>We're not quite there yet DON'T JINX IT

I swear to god if I even see so much as a single "Surely this" I will turn this thread around so fast.

In all seriousness, I'm not getting my hopes up because I don't have any faith in anyone with an R in front of their name to do anything to punish President Trump. Unless he like, I don't know, openly pays someone to vote against the tax bill I don't think they'll ever do with anything with whatever evidence Mueller may or may not find.
posted by Tevin at 9:36 AM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

You knew damn well he was a snake...

@tarapalmeri (ABC)
sources close to Flynn told @BrianRoss that he feels “abandoned by Trump”

---

And not just Trump...

@ThePlumLineGS
Here Brian Ross also reports that Flynn is prepared to testify "against members of the Trump family": VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 9:40 AM on December 1, 2017 [39 favorites]

I don't want to get into a speculation derail, and I'm sorry if this has been covered before and I missed it. I know that a lot of the terrible parts of the tax bill happen in 2027. Is there anything preventing us from fixing those when we win everything back in a landslide in 2020? (Or sooner, fingers crossed.)
posted by greermahoney at 9:40 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

I woke up to being told by Mr. Cardinal that Flynn was pleading guilty and going to coöperate with Mueller's investigation--the late night shows are going to have a field day with this one.

You don't really get a chance to make a deal unless you're going to implicate others higher up the chain of command. In the case of this misbegotten, rotten enterprise that leaves:

• Donald J. Trump: Leader of this treasonous business, likely money launderer, and generally greedy fool with bad business sense.
• Michael Pence: Leader of the transition team and hand picked by one Paul Manafort to be the other half of the TP ticket.
• Jefferson B. Sessions III: Long time associate of Steven K. Bannon, assembler of the committee that included Carter Page and George Papadapoulos, former boss of Rick Dearborn who was sending emails about a potential Putin-Trump meeting.
• Jared Kushner: just like, DJT, the son of another, more competent business man and criminal who has made bad financial decisions, met with likely Russian spies trying to lobby for the repeal of the Magnitsky Act.
• Donald J. Trump Jr: Met with likely Russian spies to discuss repealing the Magnitsky act.
• Paul J. Manafort: Campaign manager with ties to the post-Soviet criminal underworld, long history of shady financial dealings, possibly involved in money laundering, and ties to many pro-Kremlin groups.
• Steven K. Bannon: White nationalist Campaign Chairman, with ties to Cambridge Analytica and long-term association with Jefferson Sessions.
• Ivanka Trump: DJT's favourite child and wife of Jared Kushner, with a history of overseeing shady construction deals on behalf of the family business.

Flynn's flipping should be terrifying for these fools.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 9:43 AM on December 1, 2017 [46 favorites]

We're not quite there yet

And how.

CNBC's John Harwood‏ @JohnJHarwood

Mueller's "statement of the offense," outlining how Flynn told Trump transition team of his sanctions conversations w/Russians: "these facts do not constitute all of the facts known to the parties concerning the charged offense"

posted by Doktor Zed at 9:43 AM on December 1, 2017 [35 favorites]

Serious question: Is there a procedure in place where one of these senate critters could ask to postpone the vote due to not knowing wtf is happening with the president? I mean, it would be nice if someone would at least say it.

This is EXACTLY what I just called my congressman about. How can the senate vote on ANYTHING with the news this morning that the former National Security Advisor to Trump just plead guilty to lying to the FBI?! I've not had this terrible feeling of screaming into the void since replace and repeal and this feels so much worse.
posted by photoslob at 9:44 AM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

Is there anything preventing us from fixing those when we win everything back in a landslide in 2020?

Just the fact that rolling back a tax cut has always been seen as political kryptonite. Given that this "cut" is actually a tax hike for many people and that our tax system would still be in need of an overhaul, it seems pretty plausible to me that a "Tax the Rich" bill that raises marginal rates on the 1% while leaving the middle and working classes alone (or giving them a modest break) could have some traction.
posted by contraption at 9:47 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Right, the politics of rolling back a tax cut aren't easy, but heck, they just did it in Kansas.
posted by notyou at 9:48 AM on December 1, 2017 [14 favorites]

> I know that a lot of the terrible parts of the tax bill happen in 2027. Is there anything preventing us from fixing those when we win everything back in a landslide in 2020?

In principle, it could all be undone. But this is just setting up the dynamic where Democrats propose to clean up after Republicans, and then Republicans scream about "tax and spend Democrats" and Democrats go into a defensive crouch and agree to bipartisan cuts to the social safety net.

At some point, we just need to get over it and campaign on straight-up tax increases. And yes:

> Right, the politics of rolling back a tax cut aren't easy, but heck, they just did it in Kansas.

It's just that we need a spine-transplant, because it would be nice to get it done before the whole country is reduced to Kansas.
posted by RedOrGreen at 9:50 AM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

Mmmmhmmmm. To me the tantalizing part of the Statement of the Offense is where it discusses Flynn speaking with a "senior member" of the transition team, and then later a "very senior" member of the transition team.

If there's such a thing as a "senior member," then pray tell who is a "very senior" member?

Helloooooo, Mike Pence indeed?
posted by martin q blank at 9:51 AM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]

Directly from the web site of Mueller's office: PDFs for Flynn's plea agreement and statement of the offense (details on the charges that Flynn plead guilty to).
posted by ltl at 9:51 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Tax The Elites, Spend for The People
posted by contraption at 9:52 AM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

of his sanctions conversations w/Russians: "these facts do not constitute all of the facts known to the parties concerning the charged offense"

Translation: If you want any sort of deal, this is last call.
posted by azpenguin at 9:52 AM on December 1, 2017 [32 favorites]

So the transition team was interfering in foreign policy a month before the inauguration. Yeah. Oops. And there’s still a lot of patties to be stacked on this nothingburger yet.
posted by azpenguin at 9:57 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

If Flynn is Small Fry, Who is the Bigger Fish in Mueller's Net? (David Graham, The Atlantic)

I hope this is a flip-like-pancakes breakfast with an accompanying sing-like-a-canary chorus...
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:59 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Mueller Monday & Flynn Friday. Nice bookends for a week.
posted by scalefree at 10:00 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Tax The Elites, Spend for The People

Or just crib from Corbyn - "For the many, not the few". The next Democratic victory is going to happen because of action from left-liberals and the left, including the DSA and other socialist-flavored groups. This doesn't guarantee anything, but it will help us put the arm on Congress.

We can't assume that the rules for what is politically toxic are the same as they were in 1990. This is a realignment period - one bloody shuffle - and I think that if we actually do get any real power, it will be under new conditions.

There's some passage in one of CS Lewis's (largely reprehensible) science fiction novels where he talks about conflicts coming more and more to a point, becoming sharper and sharper, more and more intense, with each iteration. That's what's going on now.

The election was an intense conflict - we were playing for the court system, for healthcare, for the whole show. We lost. The next conflict is going to be more intense because the victors in the election have used their victory to intensify polarization. They are banking on a series of victories, picking off the opposition bit by bit, until the ultimate and final victory is won by the .1% and everyone else is marginalized and robbed. But it's like gerrymandering or gambling your winnings - you build up a valuable stock of power and bet that you can win even more, but you also have the potential to lose everything.
posted by Frowner at 10:02 AM on December 1, 2017 [47 favorites]

If the thing I can't bring myself to hope for happens and the president, the vice president, and the attorney general are thrown in prison for handing the country over to Putin then maybe when the Democrats propose to clean up after Republicans, the Republicans will be in too much of a defensive crouch themselves to scream about "tax-and-spend Democrats." But I can't bring myself to hope for that, so I'll continue to default to sitting here shuddering and moaning while gnawing on this bite stick I pocketed last time I was in the sanitarium.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:03 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Tax The Elites, Spend for The People

Keep American Wealth in America
posted by ZeusHumms at 10:08 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sen Angus King in a live Facebook update about an hour ago, talking about the tax bill.

"I'm not optimistic."
posted by anastasiav at 10:16 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

They have the votes and they're voting fuck you.
posted by guiseroom at 10:16 AM on December 1, 2017 [20 favorites]

@ThePlumLineGS
Here Brian Ross also reports that Flynn is prepared to testify "against members of the Trump family"

That's not the half of it, per ABC This Week: "[Flynn] has promised full cooperation to the Mueller team. He's prepared to testify, we were told by a confident, against President Trump, against members of the Trump family, and others in the White House. He's prepared to testify that President Trump, as a candidate, ordered him, directed him to make contact with the Russians, which contradicts all that Donald Trump has said at this point."

Flynn has promised Mueller he'll stitch up the Whole Sick Crew.

Meanwhile, Mueller's office might be changing its mind about whether Managort should get out of house arrest. (USA Today's Brad Heath): New filing in United States v. Manafort: Miscellaneous Relief (Big Cases Bot) (BLUF: Mueller wants an extension to Monday to respond to Manafort's bail request.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]

TPM's Josh Marshall noting a Key Issue in Flynn Plea Deal

The “senior official” is the one who talked with Flynn about how to handle his discussions with Kislyak about the sanctions. It was the “very senior member” of the transition who specifically told Flynn to contact foreign governments about the Israel resolution at the UN. The language is very specific about the direction. “On or about December 22, 2016, a very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team directed FLYNN to contact officials from foreign governments…”

The ‘very’ in “very senior member” seems like an almost over the top effort to convey just who it was the prosecutors are talking about. It’s hard to see that that is not either Pence or President Trump, though it also strikes me as perhaps a bit too coy to refer to the incoming President as a member of transition team. [...]

To visualize this, the President is down in Mar-a-Lago with his top advisors, presumably conferring with them very closely as they put together their team. Flynn is repeatedly calling into that team, talking with one of the senior officials and briefing and soliciting input on how to handle Kislyak. As the last quote makes clear, on the last round he talks to multiple (plural) members of the team to brief them on the substance of the calls.

The clear takeaway is that basically all of Trump’s top advisors, including the President and almost certainly Vice President Pence, were in the loop about these calls even if they did not themselves speak to Flynn directly.

The stories this morning strongly suggest that Mike Pence wasn't just 'mislead' by Flynn--he knew that Flynn had been involved in inappropriate foreign contacts. Mike Pence knowingly lied to the American People on multiple occasions about the campaign and regime's interactions with hostile foreign agents.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 10:21 AM on December 1, 2017 [73 favorites]

The Case For Normalizing Impeachment,
Ezra Klein

The question is whether this cure is worse than the disease. For all the dangers Trump poses, his removal poses dangers too. In August, the New Yorker posted a viral piece questioning whether America was barreling toward a new civil war. In it, Yale historian David Blight warned, “We know we are at risk of civil war, or something like it, when an election, an enactment, an event, an action by government or people in high places, becomes utterly unacceptable to a party, a large group, a significant constituency.” Invoking the 25th Amendment seems, to me, like the precise sort of event Blight describes. The bitter political polarization that marks Trump’s America would look gentle compared to America if Trump were removed from office.

But this analysis leaves us in a place that seems absurd when stated clearly: Though we have mechanisms for removing a dangerous president, those mechanisms are too politically explosive to actually invoke. President Trump could order a nuclear holocaust before breakfast, but unless society can agree that he is either criminal or comatose, both America and the world are stuck with him and all the damage he can cause.

Can this really be our system?

posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:32 AM on December 1, 2017 [27 favorites]

Word on Twitter is that Flake is saying that he's voting yes in exchange for a firm commitment to pass legislation protecting DACA recipients. Apparently he trusts the GOP leadership? That seems ill-advised.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:20 PM on December 1

Now would be a great time for another GOP senator to jump ship in exchange for their own hobbyhorses.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:21 PM on December 1

Indeed. The remaining votes are valuable, and any Senator who doesn't extract concessions -- preferably concessions that will ultimately doom the bill among the lunatic so-called "Freedom Caucus" in the House -- is shortchanging their constituents, not to mention committing political malpractice.
posted by Gelatin at 10:38 AM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Can this really be our system?

Specific to the quote; no, it'd be our society. Which might be way worse, but at least the system provides a legal framework for removal via multiple means.

Fun fact: this weekend is a Full Moon. Which, convention states, makes for weird times. You've got your Mueller-pincers, your malignant narcissistic dementia, your Tilt-level Congressional activity (on preview, the lunatic so-called "Freedom Caucus"), Tillerson intrigue, and full moon.
Full mhooooooooooooon

Stay safe, warm, and stocked up on cakessentials.
posted by petebest at 10:43 AM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

GOP donors in New York sour on party's tax plan (Washington Examiner, but seems legit)

If SALT repeal goes into effect, the GOP is going to be murdered in high state tax states like NY, NJ, and CA.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:43 AM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

Dick Cavett: "If Flynn goes to jail, I'm afraid it will use up my supply of schadenfreude."
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:46 AM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

Advent Calendar
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 10:48 AM on December 1, 2017 [39 favorites]

@kylegriffin1:
Part of Flynn's plea agreement is him agreeing to potentially "[participate] in covert law enforcement activities."

——

And reality has even reached Fox.

@OrinKerr:
Judge Napolitano on @FoxNews right now about the Flynn charges: "This is probably the tip of a prosecutorial iceberg. This is a nightmare for Donald Trump."
posted by chris24 at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2017 [44 favorites]

-- Legal actions grind on in the NV GOP effort to recall Dem senators, with the current battle being over legality of signatures.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:05 PM on November 30 [25 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

Others have said it before, but from my heart, thank you, Chrysostom, for your thorough and diligent tracking of all this information across the country.
posted by Mental Wimp at 10:56 AM on December 1, 2017 [44 favorites]

"If Flynn goes to jail, I'm afraid it will use up my supply of schadenfreude."

I don't really get this. I agree he's despicable, as are all of these traitorous scumbags, but 'schadenfreude' implies a measure of joy that I must say I will not and cannot feel until trump himself is toppled. Anything before that is merely a slightly pleasant aperitif.
posted by Atom Eyes at 10:58 AM on December 1, 2017 [18 favorites]

@kylegriffin1:
Part of Flynn's plea agreement is him agreeing to potentially "[participate] in covert law enforcement activities."

I wonder what this means, considering that there's no way he can do anything covert now. Is it possible this gestures towards something he already did -- like wear a wire?
posted by cudzoo at 10:58 AM on December 1, 2017 [17 favorites]

Sean Illing, Vox: Nine experts on what Flynn's plea deal means for Trump: The consensus seems to be that for Flynn's plea deal to have gone through, he must be providing Mueller and his team with a lot of information on some very important people.

If the government has agreed not to prosecute Flynn on the much more serious charges his alleged connections with Russia could have triggered, then it’s probably getting something very significant in return.

posted by Rosie M. Banks at 11:00 AM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

And reality has even reached Fox.

@OrinKerr:
Judge Napolitano on @FoxNews right now about the Flynn charges: "This is probably the tip of a prosecutorial iceberg. This is a nightmare for Donald Trump."

A friend with a stronger stomach than I has been perusing the comments on the Fox News Website, and reports that they are a mass of apologetics, with "Flynn was actually an Obama appointee" and "Flynn is gonna be as far as it goes" in the majority of such arguments.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:05 AM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Trump Admin Graveyard now in HD

Version 1
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:06 AM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

they are a mass of apologetics, with "Flynn was actually an Obama appointee"

I saw someone say Flynn was an Obama “holdover”. You know, the guy Obama fired and then explicitly warned Trump not to re-hire in any capacity.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:10 AM on December 1, 2017 [65 favorites]

Kushner Is Said to Have Ordered Flynn to Contact Russia
posted by feloniousmonk at 11:12 AM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

"Nothing to see here, move along" seems to be the party line at the moment, and is the subject of Ed Rogers's WaPo column today. Lots of grasping at straws.
posted by palomar at 11:17 AM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

@kylegriffin1:
>>Part of Flynn's plea agreement is him agreeing to potentially "[participate] in covert law enforcement activities."

I wonder what this means, considering that there's no way he can do anything covert now. Is it possible this gestures towards something he already did -- like wear a wire?


Almost certainly. As Seth Abramson pointed out -- the plea deal comes after Flynn has already squealed (and/or worn a wire), same as for Papodopolous.

So - who has talked to Flynn in the last few weeks, that we know of?
posted by Dashy at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

James Comey has an Instagram account now. There's exactly one post, put up two hours ago. It's a picture of a river with the text "'But let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream' Amos 5:24"
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [60 favorites]

Reminder: Following his patterns, Trump may be quiet until sometime tomorrow, but within the next 24-48 hours he's probably going to lash out with yet another racist shitstorm. He'll say or so something to stir up anger and make a mess. Some will call it a "distraction," but it'll be the sort of distraction that causes real harm to real people, and it will have to be faced seriously because of that.

So please, if nothing else, don't call it a "distraction." He may set someone's house on fire as a distraction from his own problems, but to someone else that's their actual house on fire.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [79 favorites]

It's a Brand New Tax Bill, now with Less Democracy!

@ChadPergram (Fox News) [twitter link]
Colleague Adam Shapiro rpts updated Senate GOP tax plan keeps the AMT. Increases repatriation charges to 7% & 14%. Maintains the corporate AMT. Restores property tax deduction with 10k caps. Pass through deduction increases from 17.4% to 23%

These provisions haven't been through committee, they haven't been scored, no one has seen the legislative text. And they want to vote on it tonight. And all signs are that all Republicans have signed on now (with Corker currently avoiding press and not commenting).
posted by melissasaurus at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

> Sorry, Democrats. The investigations and “collusion” outrage are running out of steam, well short of reaching the president’s doorstep.

Yes, that's exactly what's happening. I wish I had the perceptive wisdom and foresight required to be an op-ed columnist.
posted by The Card Cheat at 11:24 AM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

James Comey has an Instagram account now. There's exactly one post, put up two hours ago. It's a picture of a river with the text "'But let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream' Amos 5:24"

James Comey could've been still in office prosecuting Flynn right now if he too hadn't interfered in the election on Trump's behalf. I'm enjoying Comey's reduction to posting Vaguebook status updates almost as much the "lock him up" chants.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:24 AM on December 1, 2017 [32 favorites]

@tarapalmeri (ABC)
sources close to Flynn told @BrianRoss that he feels “abandoned by Trump”

I think it's especially delicious that, all other motivations aside, Flynn is flipping because *Trump hurt his feelings*.

-----------------------------------------------------------

And reality has even reached Fox.

@OrinKerr:
Judge Napolitano on @FoxNews right now about the Flynn charges: "This is probably the tip of a prosecutorial iceberg. This is a nightmare for Donald Trump."

I disagree. I think this statement is entirely in keeping with the narrative that Limbaugh, Hannity, and Fox News have been diligently crafting. Note that Napolitano's statement does not cast Trump as a villain or a wrongdoer in any way. In fact, this statement makes Trump sound like a victim. And that's exactly how the right wing media is casting this whole mess: Trump is a boy scout, an idealistic Mister Smith who went to Washington to clean things up and became a victim of the CIA/deep state/Clinton Foundation.
posted by Vic Morrow's Personal Vietnam at 11:25 AM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

Interesting that the latest iteration keeps the AMT, given that Daines said he thought getting rid of that was a must.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:25 AM on December 1, 2017

As Seth Abramson pointed out...

Hasn't Seth Abramson proved himself to be something of an "imminent impeachment" fan-fiction kook in the past? Not on the level of a Louise Mensch, but in the same ballpark?
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:27 AM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

James Comey has an Instagram account now. There's exactly one post, put up two hours ago. It's a picture of a river with the text "'But let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream' Amos 5:24"

All James Comey has to do is keep posting vague, subtweety quotes about Truth and Justice and he'll be the new President by summer.
posted by dis_integration at 11:29 AM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

These charges against Flynn were only made public after Kushner was interviewed by Mueller. Kushner probably didn't know what Mueller knew and now he may be in line for false statements charges himself.
posted by H. Roark at 11:30 AM on December 1, 2017 [78 favorites]

For those of you keeping score, here is a handy Daily Kos table comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions.

The Obama administration had zero - none, zip, nada - criminal indictments or convictions in its entire 8 year term, and the Trump administration has already blown past the Clinton (2,1), H. W. Bush (1,1), Carter (1,0), and Ford (1,1) administrations.

That Kos chart is fascinating -- looking at the previous 8 administrations (Nixon-Obama). During this period, there have been 0.05 executive branch convictions per year under Democrats, and 3.18 per year under Republicans. Or to put it in other terms, at these rates, in order to have the same number of executive branch criminal convictions as a typical Republican four year Presidential term, the Democrats would have to have been in office continuously for 254 years -- starting 25 years before the George Washington administration began. (If you remove the Nixon administration from the Republican numbers, then their rate of convicted criminals obviously drops, but the Democrats would still have to be in office 121 years - since the start of the McKinley administration).
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 11:33 AM on December 1, 2017 [42 favorites]

Claire McCaskill: This is so bad. We have just gotten list of amendments to be included in bill NOT from our R colleagues, but from lobbyists downtown. None of us have seen this list, but lobbyists have it. Need I say more? Disgusting. And we probably will not even be given time to read them.

I remember when Republicans screamed for literally a year over the process of Obamacare.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:39 AM on December 1, 2017 [113 favorites]

BuzzFeed is backing up Eli Lake: It Was Kushner Who Told Flynn To Make Calls About Israel UN Vote, Source Says

The documents do not say on whose behalf Flynn contacted Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, identifying the person only as “a very senior member of the Presidential Transition Team.”

But a person who was in the room where Flynn took a call regarding the upcoming UN Security Council vote said Flynn identified the caller as Kushner.

“Jared called Flynn and told him you need to get on the phone to every member of the Security Council and tell them to delay the vote,” the person said.

If confirmed, that call would bring prosecutors one step closer to Kushner, who also serves as a senior adviser to Trump.

Kushner, the source said, told Flynn during the phone call that “this was a top priority for the president.”

posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on December 1, 2017 [21 favorites]

Can putting the property tax SALT deduction back in while maintaining the elimination of the income tax deductions be seen as anything other than a baldfaced wealth transfer from the poor and middle class to the wealthy?
posted by Justinian at 11:50 AM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

John Levenstein [via Twitter]: .@IvankaTrump I love that you're finally going to have to choose between your husband and your father. The good news is either way is funny.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:57 AM on December 1, 2017 [61 favorites]

zachlipton: Kushner, the source said, told Flynn during the phone call that “this was a top priority for the president.”

So this means that Trump told Kushner to tell Flynn, so it still keeps Trump in the loop of culpability.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

In the points listed in the McCaskill tweet/screencap above, Cornyn amendment #1715 would allow the pass-through deduction for distributions from publicly traded partnerships. Publicly traded partnerships are treated as corporations for most federal income tax purposes. So, this is not a small change.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Hasn't Seth Abramson proved himself to be something of an "imminent impeachment" fan-fiction kook in the past?

Not to re-litigate Seth Abramson's reliability - it would be nice if he wrote some actual articles for publication instead of 100-plus-long tweetstorms - but he's always said that Mueller's methodical investigation is going to take a long time. (It's the likes of the flakey #Resistance Twitterer Claude "TrueFactsStated" Taylor and the looney Louise Mensch who predict imminent impeachment like clockwork with every breaking headline.) e.g. in June, he tweeted, "But this will take—as I've said for months now—a good deal of time. We're looking at 12 to 18 months more in the Mueller investigation."

And only once Mueller has concluded investigation and presented his findings will we be ready for the political phase of impeachment. Some pundits have hypothesized that Mueller's window to hand down indictments against the key players on Team Trump is between Thanksgiving and Christmas if he wants to avoid overlapping too much with the midterm elections. Close as we're cutting it, we may well be looking at Trumpeachment as the biggest election issue next November.

Meanwhile, Trump's ace attorney Ty Cobb released a statement saying in part, "The conclusion of this phase of the special counsel's work demonstrates again that the special counsel is moving with all deliberate speed and clears the way for a prompt and reasonable conclusion." Please bear in mind that this is the guy who told CNN, “It is my hope and expectation that shortly after Thanksgiving, all the White House interviews will be concluded.” and, according to the Washington Post, made "reassurances" to White House staff "that special counsel Robert S. Mueller III will be wrapping up the probe soon and the president and those close to him will be exonerated."
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:03 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

It's very much unclear to me who pays this alternative minimum tax they're bringing back without SALT. Stock option holders perhaps? Of course, nobody is going to bother to figure that out before they pass it. So much for simplifying the tax code.

Lots of favors being tucked in there too (sweet, melissasaurus caught this one!). @vicfleischer: Also, Blackstone, Carlyle, KKR, Apollo just got their own little loophole in the tax bill. Cornyn amendment 1715 (to be included in manager's amendment). PTP income, but not other financial services income, gets 23% passthrough deduction.

These assholes really are just going to move on from the national security advisor pleading guilty for a felony to pass this thing, right? They say they have the votes, though if it was done, they'd be voting now, but I don't see how they go home without doing it.
posted by zachlipton at 12:03 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Justinian Can putting the property tax SALT deduction back in while maintaining the elimination of the income tax deductions be seen as anything other than a baldfaced wealth transfer from the poor and middle class to the wealthy?

Yes, unfortunately.

I've already encountered plenty of my fellow Texans chortling about the end of SALT and how those evil liberals in California and New York will finally have to really pay for all their tax and spend programs.

The effort to kill SALT is naked partisanship as well as a war on the middle class. It's a way to tell red state voters that the tax bill is helping them by hurting the horrible Coastal Elite and other Blue State bad people.
posted by sotonohito at 12:06 PM on December 1, 2017 [18 favorites]

Yeah, bringing back the AMT but still eliminating most preference items reads to me as them saying "See, it's a pay-for, a revenue raiser!" while, without legislative text or scoring, we can't know what this "new" AMT would actually mean in terms of revenue. It's misdirection and nothing more.
posted by melissasaurus at 12:06 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

From the list of amendments:
#Hatch1684 — Prohibit cash or gift cards as employee achievement awards

Who is this even for?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:07 PM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

They say they have the votes, though if it was done, they'd be voting now

My understanding is that them having the votes comes with conditions, so someone (lobbyists probably) is frantically rewriting the bill to add on the wishlist of the late yeses.
posted by Emmy Rae at 12:09 PM on December 1, 2017

#Hatch1684 — Prohibit cash or gift cards as employee achievement awards

You can pry my TJ Maxx gift cards from my...yeah, seriously, why?
posted by Bacon Bit at 12:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

You can pry my TJ Maxx gift cards from my...yeah, seriously, why?

Because if you give an employee a gift card, they don't get taxed on it as income.
posted by something something at 12:11 PM on December 1, 2017 [38 favorites]

Meanwhile, Trump's ace attorney Ty Cobb released a statement

I'm convinced Cobb has no earthly idea what conduct Trump is guilty of, or what he's even defending against, or who in the administration has what exposure. The entirety of the Trump legal team's strategy so far seems based only on convincing Trump himself that the probe will be over soon and clear him.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:11 PM on December 1, 2017 [24 favorites]

that's really weirdly specific, but I know quite a few friends from a variety of industries where they literally get gift cards as bonuses. restaurants will give out gift card to their own franchise, which a lot of employees roll their eyes about (*cough* cheesecake factory *cough*). some always get iTunes or Amazon gift cards, which is actually useful.

I don't understand why they would specifically prohibit that, but some people I know don't care either way since they spend a lot of money on Amazon and iTunes anyway.
posted by numaner at 12:12 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

National Treasure IMHO Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The Senate regrets passing this bill providing for an asteroid to strike the middle class

Look, the Senate GOP wishes very much that it did not have to pass this bill providing for the entire middle class to assemble outdoors and be struck by an immense meteor, but it is important that they not close the year without any legislative accomplishments.

The bill has been the subject of heated debate. On the one hand, millions of people will be struck by a giant rock from space, which will probably make for some close midterms and heated town halls back home, in those towns that survive. On the other hand, are the tax cuts for corporations (also included in the bill) sufficiently large? On the one hand, people like the middle class and do not want them to suffer, and destroying their homes with a gigantic rock (which would also, curiously, trigger cuts to Medicare) does not seem like something that will help them. On the other hand, you have to show that you’re using your time in the Senate for something. Everyone can agree that a meteor is something.

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:12 PM on December 1, 2017 [42 favorites]

#Hatch1684 — Prohibit cash or gift cards as employee achievement awards

I literally just got a 15th anniversary gift card from my employer. Who added this amendment and why? Seems... petty.

Because if you give an employee a gift card, they don't get taxed on it as income.

Err, not true. Some time after I got my gift card I got an extra paycheck for it showing the deductions for it. Basically the amount on the gift card is the net of that paycheck.
posted by Hairy Lobster at 12:12 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

It's to override proposed regulations [pdf]. Under the proposed regulations, some gift cards are tangible personal property and thus can be deducted by the employer when given to employees as achievement awards (up to an annual limit).
posted by melissasaurus at 12:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Does the company giving the cards get to claim a deduction on the gift card in some way? Because this absolutely does follow the GOP pattern here. Anything that helps a big company is good, anything that helps an individual earning a wage or a low salary is clearly a scam that has to be punished.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 12:14 PM on December 1, 2017

Our company has a contest among everyone in my department each month. Winner gets a $100 Visa gift card. Yearly winner gets a $500 card. Giving out gift cards is fairly common. They’re also harder to tax so they may be trying to claw back a tiny bit more revenue to pay for the cuts this way.
posted by azpenguin at 12:14 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Also, the amendment prohibits "cash or gift cards" so what gives?
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:14 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

From the list of amendments:
#Hatch1684 — Prohibit cash or gift cards as employee achievement awards

Who is this even for?

People who don't want to reward employees.

....I wonder if bonuses are employee achievement awards.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:14 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

One theory I’ve had for a while is that the senate will pass something, the crazier and more corrupt it is the better for Republicans in fact. The whole point is for it to blow up in conference with the house, and then no one has to take responsibility for killing it, and everyone can crawl back to their billionaire of choice and say, “look! I got your amendment included! It was those guys over there who killed it, TRUST ME!”

Keeping SALT is very telling I think. House GOP members are rightly very concerned about that. But it’s equally likely the House just passes this ugly mess on Monday morning direct to trumps desk.
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:17 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

@realDonaldTrump: The media has been speculating that I fired Rex Tillerson or that he would be leaving soon - FAKE NEWS! He’s not leaving and while we disagree on certain subjects, (I call the final shots) we work well together and America is highly respected again!
instagram.com/p/BcLCXDYgQed/

1. So we're just ignoring Flynn then? How long is that going to last?
1. Are we really going with "I call the final shots" a few hours after your subordinate pled guilty to a felony? This is the exact moment you choose to make a show out of being responsible for everything?
2. Trump is petty enough he could easily keep Tillerson around just so he can say the news lied. Of course, I still think he's firing him one day before he's stayed long enough for the tax benefits from his divestment to be secure.
posted by zachlipton at 12:19 PM on December 1, 2017 [63 favorites]

Actual quote from that godforsaken Ed Rogers article: "Even if Flynn says he was instructed by the president to be in touch with the Russians, so what? All that would mean is the president-elect told his national security adviser to do his job."

The uhhhhhh... the key word there is "president-elect". You see that -elect part? It means there is another guy who is the President. If the President-elect secretly negotiates with hostile foreign governments attempting to undermine the President's foreign policy, that is a crime. Maybe that is why the President-Elect and everyone around him lied about it repeatedly!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [91 favorites]

If the President-elect secretly negotiates with hostile foreign governments attempting to undermine the President's foreign policy, that is a crime.

So, anyone get money down on the Logan Act longshot?

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

posted by mikelieman at 12:29 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

There has been talk that Trump is going to announce that the US accepts Jerusalem, not Tel Aviv, as capital of Israel. A little while ago the Times of Israel stated that this will happen in a matter of days -- presumably the announcement would be made by Pence on his upcoming visit.


CBC is reporting it will happen on Wednesday though "nothing is final".
posted by nubs at 12:31 PM on December 1, 2017

The effort to kill SALT is naked partisanship as well as a war on the middle class. It's a way to tell red state voters that the tax bill is helping them by hurting the horrible Coastal Elite and other Blue State bad people.
posted by sotonohito at 12:06 PM on December 1 [+] [!]

The irony being that all of them will be hurt, too, just not as much.
posted by Mental Wimp at 12:32 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Glibpaxman: "But it’s equally likely the House just passes this ugly mess on Monday morning direct to trumps desk."

I think this is the most likely outcome, if the Senate passes something. Conference committees are mostly just for show at this point - I think the last major legislation that went through the whole "Schoolhouse Rock"-style negotiations was Dodd-Frank, and before that, maybe No Child Left Behind?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:33 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Are we really going with "I call the final shots" a few hours after your subordinate pled guilty to a felony? This is the exact moment you choose to make a show out of being responsible for everything?

It's such an important tweet to him that he had someone make it a screen cap on Instagram, so we know he's not kidding around.
posted by AndrewInDC at 12:34 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

So, anyone get money down on the Logan Act longshot?

I will put money against on the Logan Act longshot, because nobody is ever prosecuted for violating the Logan Act. Which leads to the question of why Flynn really lied, whether he was trying to hide other Russia contacts. Or as Noah Feldman put it:

The really interesting issue here is that Flynn bothered to lie at all about these contacts with Kislyak. And the $64,000 question is, why did he lie? It seems unlikely that he was worried about the Logan Act, which bars private citizens from engaging in international diplomacy.

One possibility is that Flynn lied because he was trying to hide a longer course of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia. An earlier guilty plea elicited by the Mueller team showed that Russia was trying to make contact with the campaign. The more contacts Mueller can show, the closer he is to a narrative that shows conspiratorial cooperation between Russia and Trump.

Flynn’s specific plea makes it harder for Trump to fire Mueller or pardon Flynn. The more Russia information emerges, the more any act of firing or pardon would look like obstruction of justice by the president. For now, Mueller’s investigation seems very likely to continue.

posted by zachlipton at 12:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

Here's a talking point in opposition to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act: "President Trump says this bill won't give him a billion dollars, but analysts say it will give him a billion dollars. Please vote "no" until President Trump keeps his promise to release his tax returns and we can find out if you're giving him a billion dollars!"
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

Something something popcorn...

@koblin: New guest added to Stephen Colbert's show on Monday: ~Billy Bush~
posted by zachlipton at 12:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [18 favorites]

There were 8 bills that went to conference committee last Congress. 5 became law. S.2943, S.524, HR.644, S.1177, HR.22.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 12:47 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

New guest added to Stephen Colbert's show on Monday: ~Billy Bush~

Can he prove it's actually Billy Bush? Maybe it's a digital forgery.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 12:48 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

Caitlin Owens got a document showing the major changes they'll add before they vote on the tax bill (Axios: Here are the new changes to the Senate tax bill): "The changes include keeping the alternative minimum tax for corporations, increasing the pass-through deduction, allowing up to $10,000 in property tax deductions and increasing repatriation rates compared to an earlier version of the bill"

I thought bringing the pass-through deduction to 23% would be a non-starter (some Senators want it lowered), but here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 12:50 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Huffy Puffy: "There were 8 bills that went to conference committee last Congress. 5 became law. S.2943, S.524, HR.644, S.1177, HR.22."

Oh, sure, sometimes bills die there. I just mean, Congress very rarely does the "substantive changes via horse trading" stuff they used to do in conference.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:51 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Any word on whether the senate version contains the provision taxing tuition exemptions?
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 12:52 PM on December 1, 2017

National Treasure IMHO Alexandra Petri, WaPo: The Senate tax bill will create unbelievable growth, but not the good kind

The good news about 2017 is that while, on the one hand, everything is on fire, everything else is also on fire. But then again, everything is on fire! All the bad things that were happening are still happening, but then again, new bad things are happening, too, to take your mind off them.

Currently staggering through the Senate bellowing with rage — with one blow, it punctured a big hole in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge — is a half-baked tax bill that everyone, loosely, can agree raises taxes on the middle class and probably will not promote the wild levels of growth that would be necessary for it to pay for itself. But then again, according to the analysis by the Treasury Department that is definitely real and absolutely happened, and is not just Steven Mnuchin whispering in your ear, “Think of the best possible outcome that you can imagine! Poof! That’s what the analysis said,” it will produce the best possible outcome that you can imagine.

The bill will create growth. Growth — in the deficit! No, sorry, another, better kind of growth. Growth in how much families making $30,000 will have to pay in taxes! (Analysis from 38 economists says that the bill will not, in fact, create a growth unlike anything we have ever seen before, except in the sense that “growth” can sometimes mean “a bad development you should check out.” But that is just because they understand how economics works.)

posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:52 PM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

Multiple people on Twitter pointing out that Corker totally got played - he let the bill out of committee with the promise that the deficits would be addressed. Oops.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:53 PM on December 1, 2017 [20 favorites]

And now Flake and Collins believe that their concerns will be addressed later. How do people that dumb make it this far?
posted by Glibpaxman at 12:58 PM on December 1, 2017 [34 favorites]

> Multiple people on Twitter pointing out that Corker totally got played - he let the bill out of committee with the promise that the deficits would be addressed. Oops.

That's an interpretation that's far too kind to Corker, who probably supports most of what's in the bill, but doesn't want to be blamed for the devastation it's going to cause. I don't have to know for sure whether this is stupid or evil, but the fact that he's a little more hostile to Trump and isn't going to have to run for re-election doesn't change his very long history of voting for horrible shit.
posted by tonycpsu at 12:59 PM on December 1, 2017 [24 favorites]

Not dumb. Playing dumb in the hopes it'll dupe their constituents.
posted by palomar at 12:59 PM on December 1, 2017 [37 favorites]

Nobody of either party has ever sincerely given a single shit about running up the deficit.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:04 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Oh, I think a few people have. Just many fewer than those who just use it as a PR stunt.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:06 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

The bill will create unbelievable growths: Warts.

Well, I still don't have internet at home. Kindly don't allow any news to happen over the weekend until I return on Monday.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 1:08 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Boy, this seemed funny at the time:

Chrysostom: "88th in my ward in my small town. I wrote myself in on all of the unopposed races, so I may have five jobs tomorrow."

Sincerely, the newly elected Tax Collector for Ward 1.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [371 favorites]

Nobody of either party has ever sincerely given a single shit about running up the deficit.

In my state, running up the deficit turned out to be a ploy to give them an excuse to screw over public employees and people who use state services.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 1:10 PM on December 1, 2017

Congratulations, Chrysostom!
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:11 PM on December 1, 2017 [23 favorites]

Collins is a yes on the tax bill. She cites McConnell's promise he'll support Alexander-Murray by the end of the year and "ideally" before the conference report is adopted on the tax bill.

Of course, that requires 60 votes in the Senate and the CBO says it doesn't come close to making up for losing the individual mandate, but that's apparently enough to buy off Collins.
posted by zachlipton at 1:12 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

Nobody of either party has ever sincerely given a single shit about running up the deficit.

See, this is not at all true. Democrats went to extraordinary lengths to make sure the Affordable Care Act was paid for, including all of the requisite CBO scores, projections, pay-fors, all of it. They did that because they knew the media and Republicans would blast them as tax-and-spend, and probably in part because paying for things actually is responsible governing, if not strictly required all the time. They went so far with this that arguably most of the political problems with Obamacare can be traced back to the desire to hold down the costs, the individual mandate, and the inadequate size of the subsidies leading directly to high premium costs that people hated.

What Democrats should be learning right now is next time, don't fucking pay for it. Or pay for it with massive tax increase on the rich and corporations, and clearly tell people that's what you're doing. Then pass it with 50 votes. Process does not matter. The bond markets don't actually care about the deficits either. Republicans sure as fuck don't care about the deficits, so stop taking their cries seriously. Pass liberal legislation to do popular things. Stand up and defend it. Don't pre-compromise and end up passing something inadequate that satisfies no one. Do things that people like. Give people free stuff and tell them it's from the Government and from Democrats, paid for by the Wall Street Tax. Pass out Obamaphones and send people to free college with BernieBucks. Don't be afraid to do big things. Stop doing small, stupid things that you're afraid to even take credit for.

And above all, cut Republicans out wholesale, and do not care when they cry about it. They've forfeited the right to engage in the next process, their opinions cannot be relied on in good faith.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [99 favorites]

Congratulations Chrysostom on your historic ∞% margin of victory!
posted by theodolite at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [55 favorites]

Chrysostom: "88th in my ward in my small town. I wrote myself in on all of the unopposed races, so I may have five jobs tomorrow."

Sincerely, the newly elected Tax Collector for Ward 1.

The screenplay writes itself!

(Also, congratulations!)
posted by Gelatin at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

Wait, wait, wait. ELECTIONS NEWS didn't cover its editor's own campaign? Congratulations!
posted by zachlipton at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [62 favorites]

I needed this.

Congratulations, Tax Collector Chrysostom.
posted by Justinian at 1:19 PM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]

Tax Collector? Probably it's just looking at spreadsheets and email, but let's all imagine it's riding about on horseback and demanding folks pay their due.
posted by notyou at 1:22 PM on December 1, 2017 [59 favorites]

Chrysostom, they... or apparently you... couldn’t have made a better choice. Congrats!
posted by greermahoney at 1:23 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

Tax Collector? Probably it's just looking at spreadsheets and email, but let's all imagine it's riding about on horseback and demanding folks pay their due.

brb moving to Chrysostom's district to become that guy dressed in colonial clothes and yelling about how taxation is slavery
posted by zombieflanders at 1:26 PM on December 1, 2017 [59 favorites]

*frantically checks write-in laws for Texas elections*

Massive congrats to you, newly incumbent Chrysostom!!!!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 1:28 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

like, do I need the tricorn hat, or should I just be shouty and red-faced?
posted by zombieflanders at 1:29 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Chrysostom, that is how you do the mega-thread right!
posted by soren_lorensen at 1:30 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

Let me tell you how it will go down,
Twenty bucks same as in town
Cuz I'm the tax man, yeah I'm the taxman
posted by ian1977 at 1:30 PM on December 1, 2017 [43 favorites]

So, it may be true that no one is ever prosecuted for violating the Logan Act, but for what it's worth, Sen. Feinstein made a point of mentioning it in her statement:

This shows a Trump associate negotiating with the Russians against U.S. policy and interests before Donald Trump took office and after it was announced that Russia had interfered in our election. That’s a stunning revelation and could be a violation of the Logan Act, which forbids unauthorized U.S. citizens from negotiating with a foreign power.

My weekend thank-you faxes to my reps will include thanking Feinstein for this and her statement during a nominations hearing on blue slips, and thanking Pelosi for her statement and amicus brief on English heading the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau ("President Trump cannot ignore the Senate confirmation process just because he is impatient to destroy a vital independent consumer protection watchdog.")
posted by kristi at 1:35 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Sincerely, the newly elected Tax Collector

You know who else hung out with tax collectors? Oh. Right. Congratulations, Chrysostom!
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:37 PM on December 1, 2017 [14 favorites]

Don't ask me what I wrote in for
(Ah ah mr chrysostom)
Be thankful I don't write in more
(Ah ah on the blue)
posted by ian1977 at 1:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

You know who else hung out with tax collectors?

That didn’t turn out too well for them.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:40 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

... Jesus Chr— ysostom!
posted by Barack Spinoza at 1:41 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

Mod note: In the spirit of communicating mod thought process in a time of change: while we are cracking down a lot on riffing and whatnot in these threads, we are not doing so robotically and so on special occasions we're probably just gonna be okay with a short stretch of outright goofery when e.g. someone accidentally gets elected WTF MY DUDE. So carry on, though ideally not indefinitely so I don't end up having to leave a mod note later retracting any of this.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [113 favorites]

There is some interesting news out of Philadelphia. My useless (and probably corrupt) congressman Bob Brady will be facing a primary challenger, Nina Ahmad. Normally it would be difficult for an incumbent even as hopeless as Brady to lose to a relative unknown (she just resigned as Deputy Mayor of Civic Engagement), but the incumbent city controller just lost in the primary this spring. The added difficulty here is that Brady is also chairmen of the Philadelphia Democratic Party which gives him significant influence over ward leaders and such.

I haven't been able to find much about Ahmad, but I like that she is a molecular biologist given the utter paucity of scientific knowledge and the prevalence of outright delusion in congress. Plus she isn't Bob Brady who is being investigated for allegedly paying off another challenger back in 2012.
posted by nolnacs at 1:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

That’s it! Free for all!!!!! Treaty of Westphalia!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:44 PM on December 1, 2017 [27 favorites]

Thanks nolnacs. Brady is my rep and, while I've agreed with his votes for the most part, as head of the Philly Dem Party, he's been really bad for the city. He also has been super quiet in the anti-Trump/GOP fight. Philly deserves someone who will show up for us.

I'm looking forward to learning more about Nina Ahmad.
posted by mcduff at 1:48 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

I should also mention that the primary is the real election for the 1st district. Brady received 82% of the vote in 2016.
posted by nolnacs at 1:49 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

WTF MY DUDE?!?
posted by kirkaracha at 1:49 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

So, turns out Mueller went to Jared. He’s the “very senior person”. Seems like a step down, but I can’t imagine Jared has the fortitude to handle prison.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:50 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

Corker is a definite no on the tax bill, not that it matters.
posted by melissasaurus at 1:50 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

FWIW, NewsHour's Lisa Desjardins reporting that Corker says he's now a no.
posted by kelborel at 1:51 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

HAHAHAHAHA. Now what, exactly, does the Ward 1 Tax Collector do, and does that mean nobody voted for the other guy?
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:53 PM on December 1, 2017 [17 favorites]

Corker statement here, via Sahil Kapur's twitter
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Where exactly are we on the tax bill? Is there a bill? Are they voting tonight? McConnell announced they had the votes but now they are still writing it? Schoolhouse Rock did not prepare me for this.
posted by mcduff at 1:58 PM on December 1, 2017 [22 favorites]

Collins is up in 2020, let’s run her out on a fucking rail.
posted by leotrotsky at 1:59 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

Every vote counts when there is only one vote.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:01 PM on December 1, 2017 [14 favorites]

If SALT repeal goes into effect, the GOP is going to be murdered in high state tax states like NY, NJ, and CA.

Going after SALT affects entire states that have income taxes. The thing is the cities are the only parts of most states that are Democratic Party strongholds. Little tiny islands of blue in seas of surrounding red. The shrapnel from targeting the cities will also severely wound the conservatives in the countryside surrounding those cities.

Federal republicans might just undo all of their recent state level consolidation with this malicious stupidity.
posted by srboisvert at 2:02 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Eyebrows McGee: "HAHAHAHAHA. Now what, exactly, does the Ward 1 Tax Collector do, and does that mean nobody voted for the other guy?"

Nobody was on the ballot. I won with a total of two (2) votes. I can identify with certainty the source of 50% of my votes.

As for what they do...um, I guess I need to find that out? I only found this out about all this today when I got a packet of stuff from the county.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:05 PM on December 1, 2017 [132 favorites]

I'm sure this will be a model of restraint and sanity.

@sahilkapur (Bloomberg)
.@realDonaldTrump will hold a rally in Pensacola, Florida on Dec. 8 at 7 pm, his reelection campaign says.

---

Oh, and Mr. Not Gonna Campaign for Moore is now having a rally 25 minutes from the Alabama border 4 days before the election.
posted by chris24 at 2:08 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

nolnacs: "Plus she isn't Bob Brady who is being investigated for allegedly paying off another challenger back in 2012."

I think Brady loses if he's not in prison, the machine is losing its juice. The interesting scenario is if he has to resign first - there would be a special election, and the machine would choose the Dem candidate.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

BREAKING: Ward 1 Tax Collector paid off 50% of his voters with cake
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:10 PM on December 1, 2017 [80 favorites]

This makes me happy.

Politico: One person close to the White House described the mood this way: “What they’re freaked out about is that there are no leaks. Papadopoulos didn’t leak. Flynn didn’t leak. They feel like they can’t trust anyone. Their own counsel didn’t know.”
posted by chris24 at 2:11 PM on December 1, 2017 [116 favorites]

***TAX BILL TEXT***
posted by melissasaurus at 2:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

One person close to the White House described the mood this way: “What they’re freaked out about is that there are no leaks. Papadopoulos didn’t leak. Flynn didn’t leak. They feel like they can’t trust anyone. Their own counsel didn’t know.”

Trump must be having a complete breakdown. I'm feeling pretty good about this prediction.

Of course they are going to ram through the "loot the poor" act in the meantime. The obvious play is to ram this through and then when Trump's regime collapses try to pin the resulting disaster on TrumpCo. We can't let them get away with that. Trump, Russia, and the Loot the Poor Act must all be hung like a millstone around the neck of every single Republican for at least a generation.
posted by Justinian at 2:15 PM on December 1, 2017 [35 favorites]

melissasaurus's link is to an amendment submitted yesterday, so I don't see how that can be the final Senate bill.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:16 PM on December 1, 2017

MetaFilter: As for what they do...um, I guess I need to find that out? I only found this out about all this today when I got a packet of stuff from the county.

🎵 nailed it!
posted by petebest at 2:19 PM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]

Question: so, they try to ram through a bill without allowing various people to read it first. And if it passes? Isn't there some mechanism after the fact saying hey, the thing we voted on is not the same thing as it is now, so it's now invalid? How does that work, exactly?
posted by Melismata at 2:19 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

I only found this out about all this today when I got a packet of stuff from the county

Imagine how Trump felt at his first briefing...
posted by uosuaq at 2:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]

That amendment is the manager's amendment containing all the crap from the list, though there might be more being added in a separate amendment.

My fear is that the Senate thinks they're voting on going to conference, but nothing stops the House from just giving up and passing the Senate bill, sending it directly to the President, who will sign anything, particularly anything that will save his family massive amounts of money.

That said, there's a real opportunity to start pressuring House members to think twice here, especially since they hadn't seen the JCT numbers when they voted last time. They told Corker and his deficit problems to go to hell, but he's not the only one in Congress who will at least act concerned about the deficit.
posted by zachlipton at 2:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Oh, and Mr. Not Gonna Campaign for Moore is now having a rally 25 minutes from the Alabama border 4 days before the election.

Southeastern Alabama is in the Pensacola media market, so this is effectively a campaign stop in Alabama.
posted by dis_integration at 2:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Lawmaker behind secret $84K sexual harassment settlement unmasked -- Rep. Blake Farenthold (R-Texas) used taxpayer funds to end a "dispute" with his communications director in 2014. (Rachel Blade for Politico, Dec. 1, 2017) [quotes added to "dispute" because it's not a disagreement over what plays on the radio in the break room, it's sexual assault charges -- ed.]

Rep. Blake Farenthold used taxpayer money to settle a sexual harassment claim brought by his former spokesman — the only known sitting member of Congress to have used a little-known congressional account to pay an accuser, people familiar with the matter told POLITICO.

Lauren Greene, the Texas Republican’s former communications director, sued her boss in December 2014 over allegations of gender discrimination, sexual harassment and creating a hostile work environment.

This is the same charming gentleman who said "Some of the people that are opposed [repealing Obamacare], there are female senators from the Northeast ... If it was a guy from South Texas, I might ask him to step outside and settle this Aaron Burr-style"
posted by filthy light thief at 2:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]

I just put the tax bill in Word to see how long it is. Over 300 pages. How can they pretend it's OK to vote on it right away? No one can possible know what's in it.
posted by mcduff at 2:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Every vote counts when there is only one vote.

"Ankh-Morpork had dallied with many forms of government and had ended up with that form of democracy known as One Man, One Vote. The Patrician was the Man; he had the Vote."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:22 PM on December 1, 2017 [32 favorites]

I mean, if you sign a contract without reading it, you've still signed a contract. These fucking dipshits can pass laws without reading them, I guess.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:22 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Maybe Mueller can convince Trump to flip on Putin. He might be stupid enough to believe that.
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 2:22 PM on December 1, 2017 [27 favorites]

Also tucked in there:

1/3: Hatch amdt would allow parents who already send their child to a private religious school to deduct 25% of the cost of their tuition from their federal tax bill as long as the school guaranteed that they spent at least 30% of the school day on qualified religious instruction
2/3: While parents are free to educate their child in any school environment, taxpayers cannot be expected to privilege one educational setting over another particularly when tax incentives are directed to religious private schools.
3/3: Because this legislation promotes the privatization of education funding and the diversion of resources to private schools, we oppose this legislation. The overwhelming majority of families that send their children to private school would be eligible for this tax deduction.

This is the National Coalition for Public Education statement on that.
posted by zachlipton at 2:29 PM on December 1, 2017 [54 favorites]

Okay, I have to know: how do you run unopposed but you're not on the ballot? Even if one has no opposition, there still has to be a bubble next to your name? Or did no one bother filling in the bubble?
posted by nakedmolerats at 2:31 PM on December 1, 2017

BuzzFeed, Kate Nocera and Tarini Parti, She Says She Quit Her Campaign Job After He Harassed Her. Now He’s In Congress.

A woman who worked as the finance director for a promising Nevada Democrat is alleging that he repeatedly harassed and made sexual advances toward her during his 2016 congressional campaign — and like many young people on campaigns all over the country, she did not know what to do with her complaint, and didn’t feel comfortable bringing it to the campaign’s leadership.

So she quit her job. And he’s now in Congress.

Said Democrat is Rep. Ruben Kihuen (D-NV). The chair of the DCCC has already called for him to resign.
posted by zachlipton at 2:33 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

That’s it! Free for all!!!!! Treaty of Westphalia!
posted by leotrotsky at 1:44 PM on December 1 [10 favorites +] [!]

I'll take ham for my treaty...
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:34 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

at least 30% of the school day on qualified religious instruction

So, 2 hours and change? I went to a religious private school for a few years and that seems very high. Wouldn't that be close to 3 class periods a day? Does anyone do that?

Or is this like the "home office" deduction, where there's the rules, and then there's what people get away with because no one actually cares/has funding to care?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:36 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

nakedmolerats: "Okay, I have to know: how do you run unopposed but you're not on the ballot? Even if one has no opposition, there still has to be a bubble next to your name? Or did no one bother filling in the bubble?"

There was no one on the ballot at all, no one had declared candidacy. If you wanted to vote for anyone for that position, you had to write a name in.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:36 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

And what the hell is qualified religious instruction??
posted by Melismata at 2:36 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Congratulations, Chrysostom, on you election as the first MetaFilter publican! Just don't do it again...
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:37 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

NSAID: I bet you could get to those three hours with a straight religion/theology class, a Christian History class, and a Christian Literature class.
posted by Andrhia at 2:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Exhibit A: in which The Daily Beast coyly refers to “cat-ear hats,” followed by an unexpurgated “fuck” in the very next sentence.
posted by stopgap at 2:39 PM on December 1, 2017 [15 favorites]

at least 30% of the school day on qualified religious instruction

So, 2 hours and change? I went to a religious private school for a few years and that seems very high. Wouldn't that be close to 3 class periods a day? Does anyone do that?

That seems way too high. I went to 8 years of Catholic school (then Catholic college later but that is different) and we had 1 out of 8 periods for Religion class. And our other classes weren't "Christian X" - they were just regular classes.
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:40 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

And what the hell is qualified religious instruction??

``(3) Qualified religious instruction.--For purposes of this subsection, the term `qualified religious instruction' means academic instruction or training regarding a particular religion (including tenets, doctrines, beliefs, rituals, customs, and rites) of a type not generally offered in public school curricula, which is provided by a teacher or other instructor who is certified as having had significant post-secondary religious studies.

There have been a couple of court cases where people have tried to deduct a portion of their tuition to religious schools on the basis that a chunk is going to religious benefits rather than education. Courts haven't bought it. Hatch wants to change that I guess.

This seems carefully designed to cover only super-religious schools where religion takes up a huge chunk of the day, rather than the normal "usual academic subjects plus a theology class of some sort" of a typical parochial school.
posted by zachlipton at 2:41 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Ah, the bill defines "qualified religious instruction" as "academic instruction or training regarding a particular religion (including tenets, doctrines, beliefs, rituals, customs, and rites) of a type not generally offered in public school curricula, which is provided by a teacher or other instructor who is certified as having had significant post-secondary religious studies." [emphasis added]

So NSAID's IRS is over here squinting at your Christian Lit class.
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 2:41 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

In Alternative Facts Land, Fox News is reporting that it was Flynn's underling KT McFarland, not Young Jared who gave the order to contact Russia. Unexplained is why Flynn would be taking orders from his deputy.
posted by scalefree at 2:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [14 favorites]

mcduff: I just put the tax bill in Word to see how long it is. Over 300 pages. How can they pretend it's OK to vote on it right away? No one can possible know what's in it.

At least one GOP member admitted to not knowing what was in the ACA repeal that he was supporting, their last major rush-job. (My google-fu is failing at the moment.)

I'm imagining an updated Schoolhouse Rock video playing out, with a bunch of lobbyists in trench coats and hats that turn them into shadow people approach GOP reps and congress people with suitcases with money in one hand, and stacks of paper that say "NEW LAWS" and the GOP folks take both, but put the money behind their backs and sign off on the NEW LAWS and pass them to the President to sign.

Then a kid asks "but what's in those New Laws?" "Who cares?" asks a forelorn bill on the steps, "as long as the money flows and no one has time to read any closer. Why, they could even shove unrelated laws into me to satisfy some members of Congress or the House, just to get enough votes to turn me into law!" The kid looks shocked and say "That's terrible!" The bill shrugs, and says "seems like you're not cut out for politics. Hey have you seen that new movie? I hear it's pretty great."
posted by filthy light thief at 2:45 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

Here's a Fox News piece with more details on that. They concede that Kushner was in the mix but there's a hard push to blame KT.
posted by scalefree at 2:45 PM on December 1, 2017

Congratulations, Chrysostom, on you election as the first MetaFilter publican! Just don't do it again...

I think Jessamyn was a Justice of the Peace.
posted by leotrotsky at 2:48 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

ABC News is now reporting that Jared is the "very senior official," while KT is the "senior official."

Of course, Trump tweeted about it the next day, so there's a good case to be made that there's an even more senior official involved.
posted by zachlipton at 2:48 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

Chrysostom: There was no one on the ballot at all, no one had declared candidacy. If you wanted to vote for anyone for that position, you had to write a name in.

My dad was elected precinct committeeman one year by 5 of his friends as a prank. Highly recommended, and in a vote by mail state like Oregon you can easily coordinate after scanning for empty races like this. Works best with diligent people you know won't resign.
posted by msalt at 2:49 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

Initial analysis of Flynn plea bargain from Lawfareblog.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:50 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

leotrotsky: "I think Jessamyn was a Justice of the Peace."

She was, I'm not sure if she still is. Here's her old blog about it.
posted by Chrysostom at 2:51 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

The really interesting issue here is that Flynn bothered to lie at all about these contacts with Kislyak.

I wondered about this, too. I mean, why not take some advice from Clear and Present Danger, where the President is advised by Jack Ryan to just flat out admit that he was lifelong friends with a dude mixed up in drug cartels. I couldn't see any drawback to Flynn just telling everyone that he spoke with Kislyak on any number of occasions and spoke about a vast array of subjects. Literally no one was going to actually charge him with violating the Logan Act. They would just whine about it on teevee.

As usual, it's the coverup that's proving to be the way in to get to the meat of the actual crime.
posted by xyzzy at 2:56 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

The Lawfareblog article has the phrase 'L'Affaire Russe', which I find adorable. Now I have an image in my head of Obama, in the witness seat, standing with an outstretched finger:
'J'Accuse!'
posted by eclectist at 2:58 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

That would be beautiful, if Mueller called Obama to testify regarding his conversations with President-Elect Trump regarding Flynn.
posted by yesster at 3:03 PM on December 1, 2017 [28 favorites]

'qualified religious instruction' means academic instruction or training regarding a particular religion (including tenets, doctrines, beliefs, rituals, customs, and rites) of a type not generally offered in public school curricula

Oh wow; I can get tax dollars for setting up a Pagan witchcraft school?
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:04 PM on December 1, 2017 [30 favorites]

Atlantic, Ronald Brownstein, An 11th-Hour Raid by the Wealthiest Baby Boomers

The baby boom is being evicted from the penthouse of American politics. And on the way out, it has decided to trash the place.

That’s probably the best way to understand the generational implications of the tax legislation Republicans are driving through Congress.

The House and Senate measures shower enormous benefits on households at the top of the economic ladder, a group that by all indications is older and whiter than the population overall. Then it hands the bill for those benefits largely to younger generations, who will pay through more federal debt; less spending on programs that could benefit them; and, eventually, higher taxes.
...
One of 21st-century America’s central dynamics is that an increasingly non-white workforce will be funding Social Security and Medicare for a rapidly growing number of white seniors as the baby boomers retire. These bills strip the public treasury exactly as that burden is intensifying—and they do so primarily by enriching some of those same boomers. That will steadily heighten pressure to cut those benefit programs.

posted by zachlipton at 3:05 PM on December 1, 2017 [47 favorites]

ABC News is now reporting that Jared is the "very senior official," while KT is the "senior official."

Evan Perez and Kara Scannell of CNN are both saying KT has spoken with Mueller's investigation team.
posted by chris24 at 3:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

“What they’re freaked out about is that there are no leaks. Papadopoulos didn’t leak. Flynn didn’t leak. They feel like they can’t trust anyone. Their own counsel didn’t know.”

They are shocked, shocked, that emails and tweets and credit card records and flight plans and other documents are a valid form of evidence that can be used to figure out what happened, and that people will make decisions based on that.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:11 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

Mueller is dangling freedom in front of everyone for a quick guilty plea and rolling on the next one up the chain. Now he's reached the top and he's all out of freedom.
posted by Talez at 3:15 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

You know who'd really love that religious education thing? Scientologists who send their kids to Scientology-oriented schools. There's been a fair amount of tax law wrangling over unequal deductions for Scientology schooling. (Although actually, it's possible Scientologists already can deduct school payments where Scientology stuff is taught; this amendment might just let everyone else do this. I am not a tax lawyer, nor am I really up on the latest in Scientology tax law.)
posted by kristi at 3:16 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

This stood out to me in the statement of the offense too, from the Lawfare article:

There’s another peculiar nuance: Section 3 of the plea agreement leaves Flynn unprotected against certain future prosecutions. The section is titled “Additional Charges” and states in its entirety that “In consideration of your client’s guilty plea to the above offense, your client will not be further prosecuted criminally by this Office for the conduct set forth in the attached Statement of the Offense” (emphasis ours). The office, in other words, seems to be reserving the right to prosecute Flynn for conduct not set forth in that document, which is to say all of the other conduct on which he might be vulnerable. It is hard to know what to make of this language. It could mean nothing at all. It could mean that the threat of further prosecution is being held over Flynn’s head if he does not hold up his end of the bargain. It could mean that another plea agreement covering other matters is coming.

Flynn is implicated in a lot of crimes. He's taking a deal that, on paper, gives him no protection against being charged for, say, involvement in a kidnapping conspiracy. If the Lawfare gang doesn't exactly know what to make of this, I sure don't, but either a lot of riding on a handshake deal with Mueller, or there's got to be more.

“What they’re freaked out about is that there are no leaks. Papadopoulos didn’t leak. Flynn didn’t leak. They feel like they can’t trust anyone. Their own counsel didn’t know.”

This kind of seems idiotic, since I knew something like this was coming sooner or later. There were plenty of public signs Flynn was cooperating with Mueller, such as cutting off cooperation with Trump's lawyers. Either they're deluded, or they're just pissed they didn't get some kind of personal heads up.
posted by zachlipton at 3:17 PM on December 1, 2017 [15 favorites]

The really interesting issue here is that Flynn bothered to lie at all about these contacts with Kislyak.

You should remember that this wasn't just run of the mill meddling in foreign relations or policy disagreements between administrations. The sanctions Trump was promising to eliminate were the sanctions that Obama specifically put in place just before the Trump inauguration in January in response to Russian interference in the election.

Trump was sending the message "Thanks for getting me elected. I'll take care of the sanctions." Quid pro quo. And the lies and cover up were related to concealing that message.
posted by JackFlash at 3:18 PM on December 1, 2017 [34 favorites]

The more I think about it, the more amused I am - "omg no leaks we didn't know this was happening!!!" because, what, in their corner of the business world, the water-cooler gossip and latest tweets always tell you what's going to happen before the official announcement?

It looks like they're absolutely floored by the possibility that someone could keep his mouth shut until a specific date.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:23 PM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

Chrysostom,
Congratulations and welcome to the Downballot Metafilter Caucus!
Sincerely,
Soil and Water Conservation District Supervisor Cookiebastard
posted by Cookiebastard at 3:25 PM on December 1, 2017 [77 favorites]

Sen. Brian Schatz [via Twitter]: After careful consideration I’ve decided to support this bill. Just kidding I haven’t read it yet because it doesn’t exist yet and that would be ridiculous
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:25 PM on December 1, 2017 [59 favorites]

It looks like they're absolutely floored by the possibility that someone could keep his mouth shut until a specific date.

The desire to remain free will do strange things to a man.
posted by Talez at 3:25 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

@SethHanlon [Center for American Progress]
UPDATE: We just got a copy of what I think is the last-minute amendment to the bill. It's 479 pages long. An unsearchable PDF with handwriting all over it. This is the new tax code. To be voted on by the US Senate in just hours.

[link to PDF, now searchable]
posted by melissasaurus at 3:26 PM on December 1, 2017 [32 favorites]

479 pages and they're going to vote anytime now? The thing literally has handwritten amendments in the margins.
posted by zachlipton at 3:29 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Here's a tweet from Dick Durbin showing the handwritten provisions.
posted by melissasaurus at 3:30 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

John McCain calls this regular order.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:33 PM on December 1, 2017 [29 favorites]

It really is fascinating how little effort they've put into making the laws they want. They've been screaming for years about how the Democrats have been holding them back, and now that they've got full control, it's all backroom deals and last-minute (handwritten!) changes. Apparently they've put exactly zero thought into what they actually wanted done.

I knew they never actually had a plan. I did rather think they had a better illusion of one, though.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:35 PM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

The desire to remain free will do strange things to a man.

And keeping your idiot son out of jail, apparently.
posted by Existential Dread at 3:35 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

By the way, that earlier statement put out by trump's attorney Ty Cobb regarding Flynn's guilty plea?
Yeah, it was written in Comic Sans.
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:35 PM on December 1, 2017 [34 favorites]

Chrysostom, let us know what you find out about what policies and procedures you can enact in your new role. I'm sure we can... help craft some for you.

All payments must be made on the 31st of the month, regardless of how many days the month has, and must be paid via either PayPal, dogecoin or Puzzle Pirates doubloons.
posted by delfin at 3:42 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

And still the Trump Administration has yet to implement the Russia sanctions approved by Congress... but no one in the GOP seems concerned even as the deadline recedes into the past. IOKIYAR, I guess.
posted by carmicha at 3:42 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

Here's another link to the bill with handwritten changes (this one loads faster).
posted by melissasaurus at 3:44 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Lord Have Mercy on us if this thing passes and becomes law.

Lord Have Mercy on them if this thing passes and becomes law.
posted by riverlife at 3:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

Bloomberg, Kushner Is Leaving Tillerson in the Dark on Middle East Talks, Sources Say

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson is increasingly alarmed by what he sees as secret talks between Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, and Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman -- fearful that the discussions could backfire and tip the region into chaos, according to three people familiar with Tillerson’s concerns.

The central goal of the Kushner-Prince Mohammed negotiations, as described by two people with knowledge of the talks, is for an historic agreement featuring the creation of a Palestinian state or territory backed financially by a number of countries including Saudi Arabia, which could put tens of billions of dollars toward the effort.
...
“The problem is, the senior presidential adviser does not consult with the State Department -- and it’s unclear the level of consultation that goes on with the NSC,” one of the people familiar with Tillerson’s concerns said, referring to the National Security Council. “And that’s a problem for both the NSC and the State Department and it’s not something we can easily solve.”

This seems like Tillerson snapping back over the leaks that he's getting fired.
posted by zachlipton at 3:50 PM on December 1, 2017 [22 favorites]

And still the Trump Administration has yet to implement the Russian sanctions approved by Congress... but no one in the GOP seems concerned even as the deadline recedes into the past. IOKIYAR, I guess.

Sorry, it's too late to implement them, the State Dept. Coordinator for Sanctions Policy Office has been disbanded so there's nobody to do the implementing.
posted by scalefree at 3:52 PM on December 1, 2017 [26 favorites]

Note that both of the linked PDFs don't include the longhand text in Durbin's tweet to section 13543. Ron Wyden was on the floor saying he got the final text just before 5 eastern, but they must still be marking it up.
posted by netowl at 3:59 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

'qualified religious instruction' means academic instruction....not generally offered in public school curricula

pagan, you say? shall we team up with the baphomet people? i think they'll be on this one.
posted by j_curiouser at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

Durbin just tried to have the handwritten page entered into the congressional record - the Senate staff couldn't read it, so they couldn't enter it and the presiding senator (didn't catch who it was) won't let him enter it as a graphic. But they'll let McConnell file it even though it's not legible, saying they'll correct it later. This shit is ridiculous.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:09 PM on December 1, 2017 [54 favorites]

Sen. Menendez: Okay this is absurd. One page of the new #GOPTaxPlan is crossed out with an ex. Another page is just a line. Is that a crossout? Is this page part of the bill? WHY AM I ASKING THESE QUESTIONS HOURS BEFORE WE VOTE ON IT?? #GOPTaxScam
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:10 PM on December 1, 2017 [60 favorites]

pagan, you say? shall we team up with the baphomet people? i think they'll be on this one.

if the Satanic Temple is not opening their collective mouths to smile at this one and gleefully apply it to their Schools for Satan program, I'm a dead opossum.
posted by sciatrix at 4:12 PM on December 1, 2017 [22 favorites]

'qualified religious instruction' means academic instruction....not generally offered in public school curricula

Damn! The GOP wants to support Wahabbi schools with tax dollars? That's...puzzling.

And still the Trump Administration has yet to implement the Russia sanctions approved by Congress... but no one in the GOP seems concerned even as the deadline recedes into the past. IOKIYAR, I guess.
posted by carmicha at 3:42 PM on December 1 [3 favorites +] [!]

Sure, the administration is ignoring the law, letting Russians run things, gutting education, the EPA, Education, and the State department, and misapplying the Justice Department for political ends, but how 'bout those delicious, delicious TACS KUTZ, boys and girls?

Congratulations, Chrysostom, on you election as the first MetaFilter publican! Just don't do it again...

Well, that went over like a lead balloon. And I thought my implied pun was high-larry-us.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

secret talks between Jared Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, and Saudi Arabian Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman

I don't really expect any results of this effort. But imagine if something comes of it, because you know it'll be terrible. Imagine the legacy of that. Specifically: imagine the damage when a "big step forward for Middle East Peace" turns out to be a shit sandwich engineered by a criminal working for a criminal White House that later administrations will have to disavow and abandon or revoke.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 4:14 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Well, there was the massive coup, escalation of war in Yemen, threats of war with Lebanon etc...
posted by Artw at 4:16 PM on December 1, 2017

Rubio wants to put the corporate rate at 20.94% to pay for a better child tax credit (a refundable one, for one thing). Vote on that amendment happening soon. He's on the floor pretty pissed.

I never thought I'd see Marco Rubio being the voice of "maybe we're being slightly too horrible to the poor and middle class," but here we are.
posted by zachlipton at 4:17 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

I never thought I'd see Marco Rubio being the voice of "maybe we're being slightly too horrible to the poor and middle class," but here we are.

Uh, he's grandstanding. He's going to vote for the bill when his amendment fails.
posted by Justinian at 4:22 PM on December 1, 2017 [23 favorites]

Of course, and he pretty transparently wants footage of how he tried to stand up for the children for when he runs for President again. He's the only one who is bothering to even pretend though.
posted by zachlipton at 4:25 PM on December 1, 2017 [10 favorites]

Sincerely, the newly elected Tax Collector for Ward 1.

Are you hiring?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 4:26 PM on December 1, 2017 [6 favorites]

Josh Marshall has assembled some press pool reports from some of the days Michael Flynn was conducting his missions interfering with the outgoing administration's diplomacy: Looking Back at the Pool Reports from The Key Days.

These snippets show that Trump was meeting with folks including, but not limited to, Stephen Miller, K.T. McFarland, Kellyanne Conway, Steve Bannon, and Reince Priebus. Also included are statements about Russian election interference and Trump's hope for relationships with Russia and China.

These chumps really don't understand how much evidence there is of their collusion, nor do they really get how a real pro like Robert Mueller can nail their dicks to the floor with that evidence. It's also a testament to how respected and competent Mueller is that his team haven't been leaking anything--in contrast, the WH leaks like a bucket with numerous holes with stories about that horrible man is a deluded, incompetent child.
posted by Excommunicated Cardinal at 4:26 PM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

What I want from reporters (not that I'm going to get it, but hey, it's a good time of year for making gift requests): Go through whatever version of the bill gets voted on, in detail; pull out a section that is particularly horrible for a specific senator's constituents (and also easy to explain in soundbites), and ask the senator, "Why did you vote for X feature, when that would hurt the people of your state so badly? Why didn't you insist it be changed before you would sign your name to it?"

And let them waffle about either "other good features" in the bill, or "well, I hadn't read that part." Not because it'd change their supporters' minds, but it'd be great supporting content for challengers later.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:27 PM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

i assume that, as we speak, enterprising young people at the democratic party are gleefully selecting 30 second snippets from raw CSPAN footage of senate proceedings to spray all over the airwaves in the upcoming election cycle
posted by murphy slaw at 4:27 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

These chumps really don't understand how much evidence there is of their collusion

The president has no idea what "collusion" means. And he thinks that anything that happened "in business" (that's what he thinks he's doing) is irrelevant six months later. Old news. Water under the bridge. Why are you still talking about that; we're working on TAX PLANS over here now.

It's also a testament to how respected and competent Mueller is that his team haven't been leaking anything

They get a bit of credit for that, but really, that's normal legal procedure secrecy. His team has to be having a blast watching the tweetstorm fallout of every move they make publicly, though; I'm sure they don't get many cases where the people they're investigating hand them new evidence by public declaration.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:31 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

What I want from reporters (not that I'm going to get it, but hey, it's a good time of year for making gift requests): Go through whatever version of the bill gets voted on, in detail; pull out a section that is particularly horrible for a specific senator's constituents (and also easy to explain in soundbites), and ask the senator, "Why did you vote for X feature, when that would hurt the people of your state so badly? Why didn't you insist it be changed before you would sign your name to it?"

This would also be a good thing for Indivisible groups to do. Make sure that people show up at every town hall ready to ask that question, tailored for your district/ state. Post it in response to every stupid post that your representative puts up on Facebook.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:31 PM on December 1, 2017 [26 favorites]

I don’t like Chris Matthews, but I thought I’d give him a chance tonight. The first words I heard were “As we’ve seen today with Flynn, wouldn’t anyone want to protect their son? Surely Trump wants to protect Kushner. Is he just going to pardon the kid? And yes, he looks and seems like a kid to me.” Jared Kushner is 36 years old and I am not currently watching Chris Matthews.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 4:33 PM on December 1, 2017 [36 favorites]

On the bright side, Hatch's amendment offering tax deductions for religious school tuition has been X'd out (literally, someone has drawn an X over it with a pen, which I guess makes it not the law or something).
posted by zachlipton at 4:39 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

Maybe Democrats can just put X-es over every page and then pass that.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:40 PM on December 1, 2017 [39 favorites]

Bob Casey: Any handwriting experts out there? I'd like to know what this says before they call for a vote. This is absurd.
posted by octothorpe at 4:42 PM on December 1, 2017 [17 favorites]

GOP: I do not trust the handwriting on the yearbook of this sexual assault accuser.
GOP: I will pass illegible handwritten legislation and make into law a series of meaningless symbols on paper.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [83 favorites]

Pagan school can teach all the classes that Christian school won’t teach. Science, math, critical thinking, economics, domestic and foreign social studies, world religions, personal finance...
posted by Autumnheart at 4:52 PM on December 1, 2017 [18 favorites]

I'm running about three hours behind Scoop O'Clock, but they're coming in from all quarters:

Reuters Exclusive: Mideast nuclear plan backers bragged of support of top Trump aide Flynn

Backers of a U.S.-Russian plan to build nuclear reactors across the Middle East bragged after the U.S. election they had backing from Donald Trump’s national security adviser Michael Flynn for a project that required lifting sanctions on Russia, documents reviewed by Reuters show.

The documents, which have not previously been made public, reveal new aspects of the plan, including the proposed involvement of a Russian company currently under U.S. sanctions to manufacture nuclear equipment.[...]

The documents do not show whether Flynn, a retired Army lieutenant general, took concrete steps to push the proposal with Trump and his aides. But they do show that Washington-based nuclear power consultancy ACU Strategic Partners believed that both Flynn, who had worked as an adviser to the firm as late as mid-2016, and Trump were firmly in its corner.[...]

The documents also show that ACU proposed ending Ukraine’s opposition to lifting sanctions on Russia by giving a Ukrainian company a $45 billion contract to provide turbine generators for reactors to be built in Saudi Arabia and other Mideast nations.

So, during the 2016 election Flynn was shopping around a nuclear power plan that would have required not only lifting Russian sanctions, but also influencing Ukraine to go along with this. At this point, are we supposed to believe that this was Flynn's independent project that he embarked on without the full awareness and backing of Trump (or Putin)?
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:54 PM on December 1, 2017 [15 favorites]

Just got a message that the tax bill passed the Senate. Is that right?
posted by medusa at 4:55 PM on December 1, 2017

They're saying they have the votes, with Collins and Flake; I don't think the vote has happened yet.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:57 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Autumnheart--don't forget devotional ecology in that curriculum. Fix climate change with science, technology, and radical love of the earth.
posted by Sublimity at 4:58 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

It has not yet passed the Senate. It sounds like they're going to get going pretty soon, possibly very soon, and they keep saying they have the votes. It's unclear to me whether Democrats will attach amendments (which will basically just be delaying the vote until the wee hours of the morning for spite, not that I'm ever opposed to spite).
posted by zachlipton at 4:58 PM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

Pagan Curriculum
Science: Devotional Ecology; Sustainable Resource Use
History: Lore and Myths of non-Western countries; How Christianity put White People in charge
Health: Development of the Human Body; Identity and Relationship Awareness
Math: Sacred Geometry; Draw Pentagrams without a Protractor
Writing: Ritual script writing; devotional poetry; Line-by-line takedowns of Republican reports
Arts: Shrine-building; Hymns from Many Lands; Wheel Pottery
Physical Education: Earthball; Hiking; Open-lake Swimming
Electives: Divination (Astrology, Tarot, or Runes); Traditional Zymurgy; Gardening; Chants and songs

C'mon someone help me write up a grant proposal.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:13 PM on December 1, 2017 [34 favorites]

Needs more neoplatonic theurgy.

never trust any god you didn't build yourself
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 5:15 PM on December 1, 2017 [25 favorites]

And still the Trump Administration has yet to implement the Russian sanctions approved by Congress... but no one in the GOP seems concerned even as the deadline recedes into the past. IOKIYAR, I guess.

>Sorry, it's too late to implement them, the State Dept. Coordinator for Sanctions Policy Office has been disbanded so there's nobody to do the implementing.

One would think, unless movies and TV have lied to one for the entirety of one's existence, that that would be a big story.

*googles*

Nope!
posted by petebest at 5:15 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sen. Schatz agrees with my nightmare that the House just passes this abomination as is:

They are not going to conference committee. Don’t kid yourself.
@NateSilver538 I think the house will eat this.
posted by zachlipton at 5:20 PM on December 1, 2017 [12 favorites]

Um, I know there are a billion things happening right now, but this actually seems like another boom. BuzzFeed, In Court Filings, A Blunt Admission That Turkey Supervised Michael Flynn's Work

According to a documents obtained by BuzzFeed News, the Justice Department’s counter-espionage division contacted Flynn about his Turkey work as early as Nov. 30. They also shared their suspicions with White House counsel Don McGahn in January, a former senior Justice official told BuzzFeed News.

In the court filing released on Friday, Flynn admitted that “officials from the Republic of Turkey had provided supervision and direction” over his firm's lobbying work, called the “Turkey project” in the document.

While Fynn's work for Turkey was overshadowed by his guilty plea for lying to the FBI about contacts with Russian officials, Friday's court filings were the first time the retired Army lieutenant general has acknowledged that a foreign government directed his actions while he served on the Trump campaign. This contradicts previous statements by Ekim Alptekin, the Turkish businessman whose company paid Flynn, and by Turkish officials, who have vehemently denied that Flynn’s lobbying was connected to their government.

Again, Obama warned Trump against hiring Flynn. He knew. And he ignored the warning. Also, Flynn's first act on the job was to scuttle a proposed US military policy (arming the Kurds to fight ISIS) that would have angered Turkey, the people he now admits he was secretly working for just a couple months earlier.
posted by zachlipton at 5:26 PM on December 1, 2017 [37 favorites]

Yeah at my Catholic school, religion was one required class out of 8 possible periods. What the class actually was varied by year and sometimes choice. They ranged from Scripture and Church History to Bioethics, Sexual Morality (very consent-focused), and Social Justice. I don't think the GOP would be wild about the anti-corporate, anti-racist, anti-fascist, anti-poverty Social Justice class taught by the most awesome activist nun.

But yeah, that education wouldn't have qualified for this because they actually taught us lots of real things, including evolution and stuff.
posted by threeturtles at 5:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

I think some Jewish day schools would hit 30%. Any chance this is something that Jared and/or Ivanka managed to get in there? I'm pretty sure they're sending their kids to a Jewish private school.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 5:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

So, does the Senate version of this tax bill contain language that allows churches and other similarly-registered charity groups to openly campaign and electioneer?
posted by birdheist at 5:40 PM on December 1, 2017

No, this is pure bonkers evangelical fundamentalist Christian educational shit. Take a look at fundamentalist homeschooling sometime. Big surprise: They're HUGE supporters of Roy Moore.
posted by palomar at 5:40 PM on December 1, 2017 [7 favorites]

Mod note: Let's can the religious school sideline, thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 5:42 PM on December 1, 2017 [8 favorites]

Did this tax bill originate in the House? At what point do differences in the Senate version make it count as a new bill?
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 5:42 PM on December 1, 2017

Paul Ryan is going to spread the delicate pages on his bed tonight Indecent Proposal-style and make sweet, compassionate conservative coitus interruptus to his first edition of The Fountainhead. What a time to be a total choad.
posted by guiseroom at 5:42 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

I was thinking how Flynn always looks like he just got unmasked by the Scooby Gang and then I realized Mueller kind of has a face made for Hanna Barbera cartoons and then this happened
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:43 PM on December 1, 2017 [36 favorites]

Did this tax bill originate in the House? At what point do differences in the Senate version make it count as a new bill?

If I understand what they are doing correctly the answer is "never". Because, procedurally, this will be an amendment to the House bill... which strikes all the text of the House bill and substitutes the text of the Senate bill.
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

I was thinking how Flynn always looks like he just got unmasked by the Scooby Gang and then I realized Mueller kind of has a face made for Hanna Barbera cartoons and then this happened

I bet Velma is off uncovering the pee tape

classic velma
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [16 favorites]

If you want it though, here's a handy up-to-date comparison chart between the House and Senate bills.
posted by zachlipton at 5:49 PM on December 1, 2017

This appears new.

Sen. Bob Corker (twitter): "...I wanted to get to yes. But at the end of the day, I am not able to cast aside my fiscal concerns and vote for legislation that I believe, based on the information I currently have, could deepen the debt burden on future generations."
posted by VTX at 5:50 PM on December 1, 2017 [17 favorites]

Yeah, but last I heard they had 51 and only need 50.
posted by pjenks at 5:54 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

What happens to the House Freedom Caucus folks? They said they’d never vote for the healthcare stuff.
posted by leotrotsky at 5:55 PM on December 1, 2017

Sahil Kapur: P. 289 has a provision by Pat Toomey to create an exemption from the university endowment tax — the exemption appears to apply only to Hillsdale, a conservative college the DeVos family has generously donated to.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:56 PM on December 1, 2017 [26 favorites]

Corker has been out most of the day, but everyone else is in. Mitch McConnell is on the senate floor now, so it looks like they'll be introducing the substitute bill soon.
posted by netowl at 5:59 PM on December 1, 2017

pretty sure this will pass even if all that comes out of conference committee is a diaper with TAXES BAD, AMERICA GOOD scrawled on it with a urinal cake.

the republican party knows that they will make the keystone kops look like consummate professionals if they can't pass anything in a year where they have the entire federal government in the bag.
posted by murphy slaw at 6:00 PM on December 1, 2017 [9 favorites]

"And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling special prosecutors!"
posted by kirkaracha at 6:01 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

One would think, unless movies and TV have lied to one for the entirety of one's existence, that that would be a big story.

OK, there's a guy. One. His name's Dave.
posted by scalefree at 6:15 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Rubio arguing for the middle class on this bill. Man he's got some brass fucking balls.
posted by Talez at 6:21 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

Sahil Kapur: P. 289 has a provision by Pat Toomey to . . .

Okay. I will grant that Twitter *can* have a positive effect on the way new legislation is reported on. Fair point.

Maybe someday - maybe today, who knows - it can even prevent trash-fire evil bastard bullshit like this.

It's not like the NYT is gonna do it. Or even can. They may not even be able to help prevent this gruesome farce, even if they wanted to. Which, y'know.
posted by petebest at 6:26 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

Does anyone know what happened with ANWR and Byrd provisions? Or if Murkowski got some other mythical side deal like Collins and Flake? That doesn’t seem very germane to the budget, does it?
posted by Glibpaxman at 6:26 PM on December 1, 2017

ANWR stays in, to the best of my knowledge. It doesn't seem germane, but they came up with some way to make it work under reconciliation under the Bush Administration. Some other stuff did get Byrd'd out, including an effort to hit the ME3 airlines with a tax, the 529 accounts for an "unborn child," and a measure for Sen. Cassidy for Lousiana flood victims (it now covers all 2016 disaster victims).

Shumer is on the floor now holding up the handwritten edits in the margins (which, in fairness, is a thing that happens not crazy rarely with legislation).

Going to rush out and pick up some cake now. Got to celebrate Flynn pleading guilty and Chrysostom's big win before they pass this thing and the celebratory cake turns into consolation cake.
posted by zachlipton at 6:38 PM on December 1, 2017 [13 favorites]

I’m surprised I’m not hearing more reports of democratic senators flipping out. This feels like a panic in the streets situation.
posted by Brainy at 6:44 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

H. Roark: These charges against Flynn were only made public after Kushner was interviewed by Mueller. Kushner probably didn't know what Mueller knew and now he may be in line for false statements charges himself.

Is there any reporting on Kushner's statements to the Judiciary Committee in July regarding the late-December contacts? In his prepared statement, after detailing two early-December meetings with Russians, he said:

To the best of my recollection, these were the only two contacts I had during the transition with persons who were or appeared to potentially be representatives of the Russian government.

It takes some pretty narrow parsing to make that true, when it is now clear that he was actually using Flynn as his own personal representative to the Russian government. He also said, about the early-December meeting with Kislyak,

I asked if they had an existing communications channel at his embassy we could use where they would be comfortable transmitting the information they wanted to relay to General Flynn. The Ambassador said that would not be possible and so we all agreed that we would receive this information after the Inauguration. Nothing else occurred.

Not so truthy in retrospect.
posted by pjenks at 6:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

Trump administration guilty plea cake is always celebratory. I don't know about you, but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' it's out there.

/forkfull
posted by petebest at 6:48 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Motion to postpone until Monday, waiting for vote count.
posted by waitangi at 6:49 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

This is small potatoes compared to everything else that's happened today, but Reuters reported this morning that "U.S. Ambassador to Russia Jon Huntsman has been forced to cancel a planned trip to Russia’s Far East next week because senior regional officials could not find time to meet him, the U.S. Embassy to Russia said in a statement on Friday."
posted by J.K. Seazer at 6:49 PM on December 1, 2017 [19 favorites]

> I’m surprised I’m not hearing more reports of democratic senators flipping out. This feels like a panic in the streets situation.

My brain is telling me "panic!" but my heart is telling me "watch which senators are talking to which senators." The only tell that McCain had undermined McConnell's count during the ACA repeal was that he spent a lot of time immediately before the vote talking and laughing with Democrats.
posted by You Can't Tip a Buick at 6:49 PM on December 1, 2017 [15 favorites]

Oh great, NPR is on the fucking coal miners again. It's excuse: Tax bill will hurt actual real renewable jobs so obviously we need to hear from a bunch of whiny no hoper coal fucks from Trump country about their imaginary jobs.
posted by Artw at 6:56 PM on December 1, 2017 [21 favorites]

allow Tillerson, at least for now, to avoid over $71 million in taxes.

Every so often I think about how much a million dollars is

It's hard, legitimately hard, to wrap your head around big numbers like that, so: the average student debt is $37,000. It's enough to ruin someone's life, but 1 million dollars would cover 33 people's worth.

If you average from small condos to larger single family houses, that's about $100,000, right? At least, that gets you a long way towards a house. So 1 million dollars would cover 10 homes.

Those gender confirmation surgeries that were supposedly too expensive for the army to cover, that necessitated the rejection of transgender troops, all cost $12,000 or less. This is particularly on my mind because I see internet fundraisers for them ALL THE TIME. every day. I know so many people who feel crushed by that price. $71 million would cover it for almost six thousand people.

Stealing $100 or equivalent is a felony in Virginia, which means it can cause you to lose the right to vote.

Jesus wept.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 7:10 PM on December 1, 2017 [79 favorites]

If you average from small condos to larger single family houses, that's about $100,000, right?

More like $200,000 but it doesn't really change your point.
posted by Justinian at 7:19 PM on December 1, 2017 [2 favorites]

As the vote-a-rama begins (unclear whether they'll really be enough amendments to be a vote-a-rama, since that would really just be an effort in exhaustion to prolong this into the middle of the night), we missed this one earlier today. Remember those economists who signed onto a letter promising all kinds of economic growth from the tax bill? Bloomberg, Economists Seem to Back Off Economic-Growth Claim for Tax Cuts.

The economists, and Mnuchin, claimed 3% growth over a decade. JCT scored it as 0.8% over a decade. After being called out on it, the economists have revised that to 3%, but we don't "offer claims about the speed of adjustment to a long-run result." So they just promise 3%, Somehow, Someday, Somewhere.

Anyway, regular order. @taragolshan: OH in the press gallery, an exasperated voice: "Wait, it still has the scribbles on it" #TaxBill
posted by zachlipton at 7:27 PM on December 1, 2017 [3 favorites]

NEW THREAD
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 7:31 PM on December 1, 2017 [11 favorites]

Is there any word on whether this mostrosity still contains the "fuck graduate students" amendment? I don't see it in the pdf but who knows if that's even what they're voting on.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:32 PM on December 1, 2017

That's in the House bill, but not the Senate bill being voted on tonight. Whether it gets added or not in conference (if there is a conference, and I still think there very well may not be one) is anybody's guess.
posted by zachlipton at 7:34 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

That's in the House bill, but not the Senate bill being voted on tonight. Whether it gets added or not in conference (if there is a conference, and I still think there very well may not be one) is anybody's guess.

My current university sent an email to their grad students, saying that "the House Ways and Means Chairman, Kevin Brady, is on record indicating he would remove the harmful tuition assistance provisions during the final merger process." They link to this transcript from November 15th in support of this claim. I am admittedly less sanguine than my university regarding the interpretation of those remarks, but as you say, it's not entirely clear that there really will be a reconciliation phase.
posted by ubersturm at 7:46 PM on December 1, 2017 [5 favorites]

You can’t count on later phases whether you are a pol or a citizen. Every deadline counts until there are no more deadlines.
posted by notyou at 8:10 PM on December 1, 2017 [4 favorites]

New Thread.
posted by sebastienbailard at 8:35 PM on December 1, 2017 [1 favorite]

Republican have started preparing the next market crash in earnest :

"The 542-page Republican bill would completely eliminate the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, utilized by more than half a million borrowers since 2007."
posted by jeffburdges at 9:28 PM on December 4, 2017 [2 favorites]