The bad news?

May 14, 2002 7:59 AM

The bad news? Politically Incorrect is dead. The good news? So is The Man Show. The bad news? Jimmy Kimmel's getting his own late-night talk show.
posted by darukaru (68 comments total)

I really don't see how Kimmel's audience is enough to hold him at that time spot. Nothing like replacing intellectual banter with jock talk.
posted by mkelley at 8:09 AM on May 14, 2002

Ratings for "PI" have been solid but never spectacular. And Maher lost some advertiser support after the Bush White House misinterpreted a remark Maher made about the U.S. military in the aftermath of September 11.

s/Bush White House/American Public/
s/misinterpreted a remark/were offended by the trolling commentary/

See? Now the article is almost factually accurate.
posted by Danelope at 8:17 AM on May 14, 2002

I was most disappointed by Maher's apology. Sure his remark offended lots of people who never watch the TV show, but it was essentially true. It takes more courage to go on a death mission (plane into building) than to launch missiles from a computer workstation miles from harm. I will miss Politically Incorrect.
posted by fleener at 8:22 AM on May 14, 2002

I'm thrilled that Politically Incorrect is gone -- Bill Maher is one of the smuggest, most condenscending men on television. (The only one worse than him right now is Craig Killorn.) The show was better when it was on cable.
posted by metrocake at 8:24 AM on May 14, 2002

I always kinda liked The Man Show, but not cause of Kimmel, Carrola was the funny one.Watching PI with my girlfreind always causes an argument.The Man Show caused chuckles. But I'll miss 'em both.

Grab a beer and drop Your pants
Send the wife and kids to France...
posted by jonmc at 8:25 AM on May 14, 2002

I liked Jimmy Kimmel when he was Ben Stein's sidekick on "Win Ben Stein's Money" - he was the perfect smartass foil to Stein's serio-comic pedanticism.
posted by groundhog at 8:25 AM on May 14, 2002

well, at least adam carrolla isn't getting a late night show...
posted by pxe2000 at 8:27 AM on May 14, 2002

How is the end of the Man Show good news? You just don't know what good programming is..

Girls Jumping on Trampolines is the best!
posted by eas98 at 8:27 AM on May 14, 2002

Say what you want about The Man Show but I unconditionally ♥ the Man Show Boy clips. Especially the one where he's helping women across the street.

Q:How old do you think I am?

A: Jeez, lady, you look about 30...

Oh, and then there was Can The Man Show Boy Get Someone To Buy Him A Six Pack Of Beer?

I laughed, I cried.
posted by y2karl at 8:30 AM on May 14, 2002

fleener is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.
posted by jjg at 8:30 AM on May 14, 2002

PI got extremely boring post-9/11. Bill Maher came to my campus (UC Davis) to do a live show, and it was the funniest thing, however. I'll miss him.
posted by Mach3avelli at 8:36 AM on May 14, 2002

I watched the first 10 minutes or so of the first episode of the Man Show. To read that it made 100 episodes is truly sad. 100 too many in my opinion. Total garbage.
posted by a3matrix at 8:38 AM on May 14, 2002

I'm thrilled that Politically Incorrect is gone -- Bill Maher is one of the smuggest, most condenscending men on television. (The only one worse than him right now is Craig Killorn.)

completely agree. i never liked Bill Maher and Craig Kilborn was much better (and less annoying) on cable.

Talk Soup, is also getting the ax. It hasn't been good since John Henson hosted anyway.
posted by jerseygirl at 8:38 AM on May 14, 2002

Girls on trampolines...an art pioneered by Black Belt Jones and Flint. So sad to see another chapter of it die.
posted by adampsyche at 8:38 AM on May 14, 2002

Bill Maher is one of the smuggest, most condenscending men on television. (The only one worse than him right now is Craig Killorn.)

Aren't you forgetting Bill O'Reilly?
posted by dack at 8:40 AM on May 14, 2002

Agree with metrocake's assessment of Maher. He seemed a smug bastard who had good writers. When he had intelligent guests with the cajones to question his stance, he often had a hard time defending it. I also agree that the show was better on cable. That said, it could be an interesting show at times.
posted by Kafkaesque at 8:40 AM on May 14, 2002

The bad news? Politically Incorrect is dead.

The good news? No more Ann Coulter guest appearances.

Whoo Hoo!
posted by y2karl at 8:43 AM on May 14, 2002

[Aren't you forgetting Bill O'Reilly?]

I can't watch him anymore either. Used to watch Hannity & Colmes as well, now I can't be bothered to decipher their hysterical banter.
posted by revbrian at 8:44 AM on May 14, 2002

I would love to post my Maher target, a fair grouping at 20 yards. The post 9.11 comment was not even 'weelly' thought out. he was always just one step ahead of 'what-if's and bad schtick. like a juxta-huckster...ohhh i claim 'juxta-huckster' for all time.
i wanna see Hendrie get a show.
posted by clavdivs at 8:54 AM on May 14, 2002

Talk Soup, is also getting the ax. It hasn't been good since John Henson hosted anyway.
What, no love for Aisha? Dammit, now I want to go smash something.
posted by darukaru at 9:05 AM on May 14, 2002

Girls on trampolines...an art pioneered by Black Belt Jones and Flint.

I'll raise you 'nuns on trampolines' from Bedazzled. (The 1967 original, of course.)
posted by riviera at 9:06 AM on May 14, 2002

PI fans - and there are some - could see this coming from the moment it went from cable to ABC. Even apart from the increased microscope Maher's schtick was going to be under, he had Chris Rock on cable. The show's demise was inevitable.

And for "most smug and condescending" nominations, aren't you forgetting Dennis Miller?
posted by yhbc at 9:07 AM on May 14, 2002

I'm just amazed that the target audience for Jimmy Kimmel's purile humor is allowed to stay up late enough to watch something after Nightline...parents today, way too permissive. :) Yes, I know there are some people over 21 who watch the Man Show...but their stated target demographic in the brochures they give to potential advertisers says that the target audience is 16-24...the assumption being that once you graduate from college, you're too old to admit you watch anything that juvenile...and you're probably trying to get laid. Being a Man Show devotee is a good way to ensure celibacy...as most women are not strippers and bimbos and will get all hostile if you treat them as such. (Can you tell the concept of the show offends me? But then again...so do shows like Oprah...)
posted by dejah420 at 9:08 AM on May 14, 2002

Being a Man Show devotee is a good way to ensure celibacy...

Or homosexuality ;-)
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:15 AM on May 14, 2002

For some reason the Man Show stopped being funny when I gave up binge drinking.

Go figure.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:22 AM on May 14, 2002

I'll raise you 'nuns on trampolines' from Bedazzled. (The 1967 original, of course.)

Yes, a major part of the Western canon.
posted by y2karl at 9:24 AM on May 14, 2002

Smug and condescending TV personalities can be very entertaining, except for the overly sensitive and insecure types. (See also: Paul Lynde)
posted by BentPenguin at 9:48 AM on May 14, 2002

My vote goes towards the Man Show over Pollitically Incorrect since PI is just a mess of the celebrity opinions.

Also, the Man Show had the great stunt where they had a booth at some rally asking people to sign up to end women's suffrage. Most women signed up thinking it was to end women's suffering. Not exactly the same.
posted by destro at 9:54 AM on May 14, 2002

I still think my friend Lori said it best: "I don't want them to cancel The Man Show so much as I want everything associated with it to spontaneously combust."

Am not surprised PI is going away. ABC's on my shit list forever, though, for being such spineless cowards (oops, am I going to get cancelled now?) about the whole post-9/11 Maher incident. You know the DC affiliate still isn't showing PI, after refusing to show it after the Incident? Which means I won't even get to see the last episode... but I can have all the 1 a.m. reruns of Oprah and Hollywood Extra I want, and soon, rewarmed Man Show leftovers, oh goody!

Here's hoping the move from cable to network is every bit as successful for Kimmel as it was for Maher. Only faster.
posted by Sapphireblue at 10:05 AM on May 14, 2002

This is further proof that the people running network television either need frontal lobotomies, or that was a prerequisite for getting the job.

Bill Maher after Ted Koppel made sense. Maher's the epitome of smugness and cocky intellectual superiority, but he was still respectable. At least to most of us. Those who actually bow to political correctness would of course disagree, but that was Maher's entire point. If he weren't smug & condescending, the show would have had no teeth, and I fear after Nine Eleven it got its teeth knocked in.

But Kimmel after Koppel? What drugs are these network executives taking anyway? That's like Bozo after Cronkite. Well come to think of it, Bozo after Cronkite would make more sense than Kimmel after Koppel.

Man Show actually lasted 100 episodes? It was one of the reasons I chose to dump cable. It's one of the many shows I could easily live without. It was a oneshot gag that was foolishly turned into a series. There's a reason why women get entire networks devoted to them but men don't - women on trampolines was funny the first time, and stupid into infinity. I liked the old guy who could swallow an entire meg of beer though.

Last night Maher made a crack about hoping for a longer show soon, and it didn't sound like he was assuming it would happen on ABC. I doubt we've heard the last of him. He's been unhappy with being on ABC ever since the switch. Censorship and political correctness go hand in hand, and ABC kept tying Maher's hands behind his back. I wish him the best, wherever he ends up.

As for Kimmel? I won't have an opinion about his new ABC program because I plan never to tune in and give it a chance. As far as I'm concerned, after Koppel, ABC is a test pattern.
posted by ZachsMind at 10:12 AM on May 14, 2002

What, no love for Aisha? Dammit, now I want to go smash something.

I think she's talented and funny, but nothing will top the John Henson and Senor Sock days of the Soup.
posted by jerseygirl at 10:12 AM on May 14, 2002

a couple of years ago, i gave the man show a try. i figured: girls on trampolines. it can't be all bad. and then i saw this old guy. this scary, old guy playing a piano and drinking from a mug of beer. "what the fuck is this shit?" i wondered to myself.

i think that i read somewhere that the man show, the x show (wasn't it called that?) and similar of the breed were the establishment's answer to feminism. which i suppose should now be compared to a pavlovian spontanteous reoccurrance, like a smoker giving long looks to a pack of lucky strikes several years since he'd kicked the habit. there was all this rah-rah-men! crap. supermodels fixing toilets; the like.

i don't mean any offense, but i don't need reassurance that i'm a guy. i don't need a show to spell out the way it ought to be. i'll make my own way. i would prefer if my way included girls on trampolines, but the rest you can keep.
posted by moz at 10:37 AM on May 14, 2002

well, at least adam carrolla isn't getting a late night show...

He already co-hosts a nationally syndicated late night radio show.
posted by euphorb at 11:03 AM on May 14, 2002

Kimmel/Corrola have their moments, but for sheer volume titillation I go straight to the source: Cinemax.

Although "Household Hints from Porn Stars" does have a certain (heh) Jenna se quois.

If they HAD to cancel a show in Comedy Central, why couldn't it be the abysmal "Who's Line Is It Anyway?" Singularly unfunny.

As for Maher and PI? An early goundbreaker rendered inconsequential by time. Like Survivor.
posted by UncleFes at 11:07 AM on May 14, 2002

Plus Loveline was on MTV for many years...
posted by gen at 11:19 AM on May 14, 2002

adam carrolla = gilbert gottfried
posted by Ben Grimm at 11:32 AM on May 14, 2002

Although "Household Hints from Porn Stars" does have a certain (heh) Jenna se quois.

Oh, now that's priceless!! Although I don't think Jenna ever did a Household Hint, did she? Still, great pun...

I liked PI, although it could be an immensely frustrating show at times (like in the repeated and inexplicable appearances of Ann "Mr. Ed" Coulter, or the smug tone of Jack "American Psycho" Burkman); I'm sad to see it go because a show like it is a good thing to have around. The other talkies on cable tend to be bland (excepting the new Crossfire, that is), recycling the same Beltway memes like kiddies gossiping in high school, and lacking all journalistic integrity or motivation. PI has no journalistic integrity either (for all his money, you'd think at least Bill Maher could hire a couple of fact checkers before he blathers ignorantly on topics he knows nothing about), but it does at least have alternate viewpoints from people who's principle career is not simply kissing enough political ass to keep a plum six or seven figure a year job as a celebri-pundit on Fox, MSNBC, CNN, et al.

I also liked the Man Show, or at least parts of it. The whole frat boy/male dominance/submission and subjugation of women thing is stupid and I could have done with out (excepting the Juggies- MUST have the Juggies), but some of the other bits are priceless. "Bathroom Interviews" was one of the first things I ever saw from the Man Show, and skits like that, the "Man Show Boy", or the "Drunk Pilots" things were hilarious. I'm the same way with Jackass, actually- I don't find the staple-my-ass or slide-down-a-hill bits funny, but the public setup humor (like the time they had a hearse rigged to drop the casket out the back, and drove around secretly videotaping people's reactions, or even when they just had a fat man chasing a midget in his underwear) always kills me in either show.

But I guess it was mostly the Juggies that I liked, and I worry that the Juggiest of Them All will be looking for work come this fall. If I can scrape together enough cash, though, I should be able to offer her a position on my lap...
posted by hincandenza at 11:37 AM on May 14, 2002

adam carrolla = gilbert gottfried


Just add Viagra.
posted by jonmc at 11:41 AM on May 14, 2002

Bill Maher is one of the smuggest, most condenscending men on television. (The only one worse than him right now is Craig Killorn.)

um, maybe I'm missing something, but Kilby is intentionally smug. Part of his shtick. Part of what makes him funny... guess it got lost in the translation for some.
posted by dig_duggler at 11:46 AM on May 14, 2002

Politically Incorrect is dead. Yay!
The Man Show is dead. Yay!
The Howard Stern Show is dead. Yay!

(I'm just practicing. In case good luck, like bad luck, runs in threes.)
posted by iconomy at 11:53 AM on May 14, 2002

Kilby is intentionally smug. Part of his shtick. Part of what makes him funny...

Yeah, hilarious. Kilborn is the epitome of what Jedidiah Purdy and David Foster Wallace are talking about when they rail against "corrosive irony"
posted by jonmc at 12:13 PM on May 14, 2002

Yeah, hilarious. Kilborn is the epitome of what Jedidiah Purdy and David Foster Wallace are talking about when they rail against "corrosive irony"

Each to his own's sense of humor. Just trying to clear things up a bit. Kilborn smug and Maher smug are not the same thing.
posted by dig_duggler at 12:21 PM on May 14, 2002

"Smugness is not a good quality."

--Seinfeldian Cabbie
posted by UncleFes at 12:29 PM on May 14, 2002

I think she's talented and funny, but nothing will top the John Henson and Senor Sock days of the Soup.
Fair enough. Of course, Skunk-Boy had better material to work with, too... that was the heyday of Springer.
posted by darukaru at 12:33 PM on May 14, 2002

I'm just amazed that the target audience for Jimmy Kimmel's purile humor is allowed to stay up late enough to watch something after Nightline...parents today, way too permissive. :)

LOL Dead on!
posted by rushmc at 12:33 PM on May 14, 2002

"...but for sheer volume titillation I go straight to the source: Cinemax."

Oh, you mean Skinemax?! :D

(And, yes, I miss Senor Sock too. And the cockatiel singing "Candle in My Pants '97."
posted by metrocake at 12:45 PM on May 14, 2002

)
(bah. close that parens.)
posted by metrocake at 12:45 PM on May 14, 2002

"Kilby is intentionally smug. Part of his shtick. Part of what makes him funny... "

Stupid, sexist comments like this aren't funny. And neither is he.

"Kilby," indeed...
posted by metrocake at 12:55 PM on May 14, 2002

Stupid, sexist comments like this aren't funny. And neither is he.

Lighten up. Some people do find it funny. I thought those statements were hilarious. If you don't get it or find it funny, don't watch. You don't like him. That's fine. But that doesn' t mean he isn't funny. Just not funny to you.
posted by dig_duggler at 1:09 PM on May 14, 2002

as Kilborn used to say when he was on the Daily Show, "If you don't have anything nice to say...send us a resume." ; )
posted by stifford at 1:21 PM on May 14, 2002

Oh, now that's priceless!! Although I don't think Jenna ever did a Household Hint, did she? Still, great pun...

She did at least two Household hints... One involved cleaning silver candlesticks with a baking soda mixture, the other something about popsicles and her in a tight white t-shirt. I think there's definitely a place for the Man Show. So it's sexist dick and fart jokes almost all the time. Big deal. As long as you understand it's humor what is the harm?
posted by krakedhalo at 1:24 PM on May 14, 2002

Surreptitously, reading the progress of this thread today has made something come together in my head.

Sure, the antics on The Man Show are juvenile(and often uproarious) boobie humor. But for the most part Kimmel and Carolla come across as harmless good-natured slobs, and most of the time the joke's on them. Kimmel's wife is one of the shows producers, to give you an idea.

The seen-it-all, jaded smugness of Kilborn and Maher, while it may be the acme of hip to some, seems to me far more toxic. Rather than being refreshingly frank, as some people seem to think, to me it's a shell behind which hides an overwhelming contempt for most of humanity. And if the comments linked above are any indication, in Kilborn's case that shell is pretty thin.

Maybe it's just me but I'll take freindly mookishness over mean-spirited hipness any day of the damn week.
posted by jonmc at 2:06 PM on May 14, 2002

"Jenna se quois." Agreed...funniest comment in the discussion thus far. Go UncleFez.

Speaking of the much beloved and now missing Skunkboy...does anyone know what ever happened to him? I think I remember seeing him in a car ad, or a dry cleaner's ad...some ad anyway...yeah, I know I could go look it up...but I figured someone might know off the top of their head and could use this as an excuse to share that bit of knowledge. :)
posted by dejah420 at 2:06 PM on May 14, 2002

I thought Talk Soup was actually damn hilarious when Greg Kinnear was the host. He should have stuck with the wisecracker bit though, I think.
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:28 PM on May 14, 2002

jonmc - Bravo. Snark is far more damaging to discourse than jiggle will ever be.
posted by NortonDC at 3:48 PM on May 14, 2002

The Howard Stern Show is dead. Yay!
(I'm just practicing. In case good luck, like bad luck, runs in threes.)

Don't hold your breath. That dreck is still the number one rated show on the E! Network, a fact which makes me look at my fellow Americans with fear, loathing and disgust.

Lighten up. Some people do find it funny. I thought those statements were hilarious.

It's funny to call your female co-workers bitches and suggest that the head writer of your program blow you? Oh yeah, that's just damned hysterical. (Why don't you try it with some of the women that you work with, dig_duggler, and see how many of them laugh?) That smug self-rightous piece of crap should be glad that Lizz Winstead didn't decide to sue his pathetic butt for that one. Easy to forget that Kilbourne needs a team of writers like Winstead to make him as remotely funny as he is on-air, when people continually praise him as though he has some kind of inate talent, which he's never shown any real evidence of.
posted by Dreama at 4:00 PM on May 14, 2002

to me it's a shell behind which hides an overwhelming contempt for most of humanity.

I'll take freindly mookishness over mean-spirited hipness any day of the damn week.

The thing is, for a lot of women that "friendly mookishness" comes across as a shell behind which hides a contempt for half of humanity - "the bitches". At least the sarcastic comedians don't pick their victims by whether or not they have boobies.

I'm actually surprised how many people think bill maher is smug and condescending. He can be clueless and self-contradictory, but he generally strikes me as someone who actually listens to responses, appreciates opposing viewpoints etc. Could be wrong, but...
posted by mdn at 4:22 PM on May 14, 2002

To be fair, mdn, my statement was more about Kilborn than it was about Maher. Maher is like a somewhat more erudite Morton Downey Jr., in that when you agree with him, he's the new messiah, and when you disagree, he makes you wanna kick the tube out of the TV.

Kilborn's an entirely different beast. He just gives off an unmistakable "ain't I cool" air that I find repugnant. The Man Show guys on the other hand are harmless fun, doing a variation on the classic henpecked lug characters like Ralph Kramden and Fred Flintstone-"I like beer and boobs, aren't I a lovable dumb schmuck" which lets you know they're just playing and that it's actually self-parody that they're doing.

And of course, I could be wrong too....
posted by jonmc at 4:34 PM on May 14, 2002

Kilby was good on Daily, then became lame.
Man Show rocks.
I like PI, and I like Maher - one of the few people on tv that doesn't ask celebs wiffle ball questions (I'm talking about YOU - Dave and Jay).
Aisha will have more time to hang at my crib now that talk soup is over.

Conan O'Brien still remains our red headed, freckled god.
posted by owillis at 4:42 PM on May 14, 2002

That smug self-rightous piece of crap should be glad that Lizz Winstead didn't decide to sue his pathetic butt

I guess it's absolutely inconceivable that Kilborn could have come up with some equally trashy male-bashing quotes from Winstead to use against her in court, eh?

Let's not forget that Winstead was one of the first media mavens to use "Lewinsky" as a verb. Did Monica L. sue, or threaten to sue, Winstead? Of course not. Winstead's upset over Kilborn's Esquire interview had nothing to do with what he said, and everything to do with Winstead being unwilling to believe her Frankenstein had turned on her.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:53 PM on May 14, 2002

Kimmel: Lame, unfunny
Maher: Jerk, unfunny
Koppel: Stick a fork in 'em, he's done.

Don't any of the creative geniuses @ ABC have something original to air? Jeez...
posted by davidmsc at 5:06 PM on May 14, 2002

um, maybe I'm missing something, but Kilby is intentionally smug.

Definately, Craig plays the 80's ex-jock/proto-yuppy very well. Not my cup of tea, but some people love it.

Kimmel is jumping the original and usually very funny Man Show for another damn talk show? The Man Show skits are instant classics and unfortunately the easily offended can't see that its really parody of manliness.

I really can't stomach the many pre-prepared interview/anecdote deliveries that are talk shows today, even by the masters like Conan. Kimmel is giving up an original show with great skits to be another faceless Carson Daily asking scripted questions. Bah.
posted by skallas at 5:20 PM on May 14, 2002

Why don't you try it with some of the women that you work with, dig_duggler, and see how many of them laugh?
I have. They do. It's all about context. You obviously don't understand its applications in this case.
posted by dig_duggler at 5:41 PM on May 14, 2002

If they HAD to cancel a show in Comedy Central, why couldn't it be the abysmal "Who's Line Is It Anyway?" Singularly unfunny.

99% of the episodes are, but any show where eddie izzard is portraying a strange child can't be all bad.
posted by pxe2000 at 6:17 PM on May 14, 2002

a shell behind which hides an overwhelming contempt for most of humanity.

You say that like it's a bad thing.
posted by kindall at 6:26 PM on May 14, 2002

Kimmel is giving up an original show with great skits to be another faceless Carson Daily asking scripted questions. Bah.

Scripted questions... now five nights a week. NBC canceled that Friday night comedy showcase and expanded Last Call with Carson Daly to all five nights. Did MTV fire him or something?
posted by jerseygirl at 8:10 PM on May 14, 2002

I have. They do. It's all about context. You obviously don't understand its applications in this case.

I worry about the women you work with, then. I'd go out on a limb to say that there are very few contexts in which it is appropriate or appreciated to refer to female co-workers as bitches.

But, of course, it isn't surprising that a culture which vaunts silicone-enhanced women jumping up and down and an endless parade of hookers, strippers and various women who think that being objectified is a worthwhile life goal as entertainment would also be one in which degradation and insulting co-workers in a manner which is entirely based upon their gender is considered humourous.
posted by Dreama at 8:34 PM on May 14, 2002

Newsflash: comedy is about humanity's faults.
posted by NortonDC at 6:22 AM on May 15, 2002