May 15, 2002

8:32 AM

A heavy turnout has been reported in the Dutch general election. More on the current situation there: "A Dutch Radical's Message to Europe". This was published yesterday and was written by a Dutch reporter for the NYT (so I guess you can find it there too, but why go there if you don't really have to?).
posted by Taco (10 comments total)

The collapse of the Soviet Union signaled the collapse of the left. Without a coherent world view, the left tries to hold on to power by demonizing their opponents. The blood of Fortuyn is on their hands.
posted by mikegre at 8:46 AM on May 15, 2002

Rubbish.

This is just one of those periodical swings. Another 5-10 years and it will be the right who are turfed out thoughout Europe. It's clear that there is a lot of anger within Europe about immigration, and regular polititions are going to have to sort it out before a Nazi actually gets into power.
posted by salmacis at 8:56 AM on May 15, 2002

salmacis: are you saying Pim was a Nazi?
posted by nobody_knose at 9:08 AM on May 15, 2002

No, although his policies sound a little distasteful. Sorry if it came out otherwise. The Dutch drift rightwards has been mirrored across Europe and if this continues, eventually a Nazi party will get power somewhere.
posted by salmacis at 9:55 AM on May 15, 2002

He was just so very, very far from being a Nazi that I think the suggestion is kinda ridiculous. Are you familiar with the ideas he championed? What is it about gay-rights and less government that you equate with the Nazis?

If it's logical to equate any rightward movement as a return of the Nazis, should we also see left-of-center politicians as stepping-stones to some kind of neo-Soviet gulag?
posted by nobody_knose at 10:09 AM on May 15, 2002

Nazis and Communists are Totalitarians. They're the same.
posted by mikegre at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2002

mikegre: I wasn't asking what's the difference between Nazis and Communists.

I wanted to know why so many folks are comfortable throwing the Nazi label at right of center folks like Pim who are
1) Libertarian-minded
2) Have nothing in common with Nazis

If you believe left of center does not necessarily equal Communist, why is it OK to imply that right of center equals Nazi?
posted by nobody_knose at 1:35 PM on May 15, 2002

I wanted to know why so many folks are comfortable throwing the Nazi label at right of center folks like Pim who are
1) Libertarian-minded
2) Have nothing in common with Nazis

Presumably for the same reason that those on the right of center feel comfortable calling feminists "feminazis" or referring to left-wing gays as the "Gay Gestapo"? Or the same reason that Ed Koch compared Andrew Sullivan to a "Jew-catcher of Nazi Germany"? (For speculating on people's sexuality, ironically enough, given Sullivan's recent about-face on the issue.) Or the same reason that Freepers refer to "eco-Nazis"? The term has been bastardized to mean "anyone whose policies I find loathsome." In Fortuyn's case, people were focusing on the anti-Muslim angle, which--I would guess--allowed them to make an (unspoken?) analogy with anti-Jewish sentiment (although Fortuyn wasn't anti-Semitic).
posted by thomas j wise at 4:55 PM on May 15, 2002

thomas j wise : So, if it's good enuff for FreeRepublic, it's good enuff for here? Isn't mefi supposed to be the tolerant community?
posted by nobody_knose at 9:24 PM on May 15, 2002

thomas j wise : So, if it's good enuff for FreeRepublic, it's good enuff for here? Isn't mefi supposed to be the tolerant community?

That wasn't my point, or points, which were a) that this is not just something directed by the left-of-center against the right-of-center, but also vice-versa; b) it's past time to be shocked when someone does it. One can merely point out that they lack any sense of moral proportion and be done with it. I'm no more impressed by leftists calling rightists "Nazis" than I am by, say, Andrew Sullivan doing the same thing to the opposite side.
posted by thomas j wise at 5:54 AM on May 16, 2002