The Mess at Meetup
February 19, 2018 4:08 AM Subscribe
Meetup was supposed to be different. While much of the tech industry struggled to create inclusive work environments and free itself from the kinds of workplace harassment allegations that have spewed out of major companies like Google and Uber, Meetup was mission-driven, diverse, profitable, and user-focused. But last year, facing increasing competition, Meetup started negotiating an acquisition with WeWork—and everything changed. [slGizmodo]
He panicked.
They should have stayed calm and stayed the course. The indie web is still thriving.
posted by infini at 4:28 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
They should have stayed calm and stayed the course. The indie web is still thriving.
posted by infini at 4:28 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
> It’s not enforceable, so just sign it.
“In that case it’s of no consequence if we simply take this black magic marker and strike it out, right?”
posted by ardgedee at 5:00 AM on February 19, 2018 [37 favorites]
“In that case it’s of no consequence if we simply take this black magic marker and strike it out, right?”
posted by ardgedee at 5:00 AM on February 19, 2018 [37 favorites]
seems like calling the bluff is the move here, yes - if they fire you, lawyer time
posted by thelonius at 5:09 AM on February 19, 2018
posted by thelonius at 5:09 AM on February 19, 2018
Well, that gets complicated. With at-will employment, they can fire you because you don't want to comport with new policies (oversimplifying here, esp. w/r/t conflicts with labor law, but basically). If they were trying to unilaterally foist new agreements on employees with contracts for a term, or that required cause for termination, then yes.
The other way to go is to sign the thing and then argue that it's a nullity for various reasons, which is what Pashman was hinting at, but it presents all kinds of problems for him to voice that opinion on both sides of the ethical divide. Depending on what he actually believes -- and regardless of whether he's correct in his analysis -- either he's improperly advising his actual client (the company) or he's knowingly misleading its employees. Who he should not be advising in that manner anyway.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:18 AM on February 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
The other way to go is to sign the thing and then argue that it's a nullity for various reasons, which is what Pashman was hinting at, but it presents all kinds of problems for him to voice that opinion on both sides of the ethical divide. Depending on what he actually believes -- and regardless of whether he's correct in his analysis -- either he's improperly advising his actual client (the company) or he's knowingly misleading its employees. Who he should not be advising in that manner anyway.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:18 AM on February 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
WeWork's core product of monthly desk / office space is great. Everything else about the company gives me the willies.
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:18 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 5:18 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
.....and of course you have to be out of living paycheck-to-paycheck to feel free to say fuck you, I'm not signing that
posted by thelonius at 5:26 AM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 5:26 AM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
The newest WeWork arm, WeGrow, is particularly… interesting. You can pay $36,000/year to have your pre-school through fourth grade kid attend a startup school and be mentored by WeWorkers. There's also yoga.
posted by zamboni at 5:57 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 5:57 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
There's no chance that wework isn't just VC funded crazy bullshit. Buying up older internet properties makes good sense when flush with cash.
posted by The River Ivel at 6:23 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by The River Ivel at 6:23 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
“There’s no reason why children in elementary schools can’t be launching their own businesses,”
lol omg fuck these people. Can we just give kids 15-18 years before we do this to them?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:32 AM on February 19, 2018 [75 favorites]
lol omg fuck these people. Can we just give kids 15-18 years before we do this to them?
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:32 AM on February 19, 2018 [75 favorites]
WeWork seems to get creepier and creepier—the fucked-up synthesis of all that's bad about startup culture with the older pathologies of Trumpian real-estate operatorism. I imagine they will make a killing.
posted by enn at 6:53 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by enn at 6:53 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
The contents of the slide presentation is very standard from my experience in start up culture. Standard to the point of being generic and could have been copy/pasted from any tech start up All Hands Meeting that's gotten big enough so that 'stakeholders' are sniffing around talking about 'results driven performance'.
Stuff like:
PAST: We debate too much without defined decision makers and don't act on decicions
STARTING NOW: Clear decision makers end the debate, communicate decisions, and act quickly
Feels familiar as a pattern amongst young start ups, and I'll admit, it sounds like a reasonable change to me.
But the problem is that this is only half the job. Given how much it sounds like people appreciated the inclusive and open nature of the workplace, they should have acknowledged how integral that would continue to be. For example, having clear decision makers is great! But how will they assure that the decision maker is not a jerk, people still feel like they have been heard (even if they don't get their way all the time), and the company was still going to feel like the Meetup they knew even if it didn't work like Meetup they knew.
But by leaving that aspect out, people assume that the place was going to turn into Uber and it didn't matter you were a raging asshole as long as you Got Things Done. And they might be right.
posted by like_neon at 6:58 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
Stuff like:
PAST: We debate too much without defined decision makers and don't act on decicions
STARTING NOW: Clear decision makers end the debate, communicate decisions, and act quickly
Feels familiar as a pattern amongst young start ups, and I'll admit, it sounds like a reasonable change to me.
But the problem is that this is only half the job. Given how much it sounds like people appreciated the inclusive and open nature of the workplace, they should have acknowledged how integral that would continue to be. For example, having clear decision makers is great! But how will they assure that the decision maker is not a jerk, people still feel like they have been heard (even if they don't get their way all the time), and the company was still going to feel like the Meetup they knew even if it didn't work like Meetup they knew.
But by leaving that aspect out, people assume that the place was going to turn into Uber and it didn't matter you were a raging asshole as long as you Got Things Done. And they might be right.
posted by like_neon at 6:58 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
I've been to the WeWork over on the 'Silicon Roundabout' here in London a few times now. Various friends and/or ex-developers of mine are working in startups based there, so it's often a case of popping in and grabbing a quick beer there (while the taps last) before we head out further afield to catch up.
It's an interesting space. Very, very, Silicon Valley (as in the show) where you can't turn around without falling someone saying something about blockchain.
To me, personally, it always seems like the exact opposite kind of space to what I like working in now, with the exactly wrong kind of culture for long-term business development. I can also see that twenty-three year old me would have absolutely adored the high-pressure, uber-tech-savvy, work-till-you-drop-or-drink environment it reeks of though and would have fully embraced it.
Of course twenty-three year old me was an arrogant (but secretly insecure) idiot who thought he could change the world through the correct use of CSS float.
It's the kind of place that shows that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Each visit I seem to lurch between finding that comforting or horrifying.
posted by garius at 7:06 AM on February 19, 2018 [31 favorites]
It's an interesting space. Very, very, Silicon Valley (as in the show) where you can't turn around without falling someone saying something about blockchain.
To me, personally, it always seems like the exact opposite kind of space to what I like working in now, with the exactly wrong kind of culture for long-term business development. I can also see that twenty-three year old me would have absolutely adored the high-pressure, uber-tech-savvy, work-till-you-drop-or-drink environment it reeks of though and would have fully embraced it.
Of course twenty-three year old me was an arrogant (but secretly insecure) idiot who thought he could change the world through the correct use of CSS float.
It's the kind of place that shows that the more things change, the more they stay the same. Each visit I seem to lurch between finding that comforting or horrifying.
posted by garius at 7:06 AM on February 19, 2018 [31 favorites]
Which has just reminded me:
Last time I was there I got into a (friendly) argument with a 29 year old CEO of a tech startup doing something with blockchain and education.
Whole argument could be distilled down to him saying that in his company, failure was not an option. It was against their corporate culture and not part of their design or decision process.
I was all: "WTF?! Failure is the only constant in development, dude. What are you even talking about?!"
He said that's the kind of thing he'd expect something from "my generation of computing."
It was then that I realised that WeWork is basically Logan's Run. Now I'm over 30, to those inside I'm just the scruffy Peter Ustinov watching from outside in amusement and confusion.
posted by garius at 7:17 AM on February 19, 2018 [81 favorites]
Last time I was there I got into a (friendly) argument with a 29 year old CEO of a tech startup doing something with blockchain and education.
Whole argument could be distilled down to him saying that in his company, failure was not an option. It was against their corporate culture and not part of their design or decision process.
I was all: "WTF?! Failure is the only constant in development, dude. What are you even talking about?!"
He said that's the kind of thing he'd expect something from "my generation of computing."
It was then that I realised that WeWork is basically Logan's Run. Now I'm over 30, to those inside I'm just the scruffy Peter Ustinov watching from outside in amusement and confusion.
posted by garius at 7:17 AM on February 19, 2018 [81 favorites]
> in his company, failure was not an option. It was against their corporate culture and not part of their design or decision process.
Yep, sounds like blockchain, alright.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:25 AM on February 19, 2018 [30 favorites]
Yep, sounds like blockchain, alright.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 7:25 AM on February 19, 2018 [30 favorites]
I'm 100% sure that WeGrow is just a scheme for the CEO to write off his kids' education.
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:34 AM on February 19, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 7:34 AM on February 19, 2018 [19 favorites]
in his company, failure was not an option. It was against their corporate culture and not part of their design or decision process
That just means they didn't spend time writing code to catch error conditions.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on February 19, 2018 [17 favorites]
That just means they didn't spend time writing code to catch error conditions.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:45 AM on February 19, 2018 [17 favorites]
Soooooooo I'm working with a company that has its NYC office in a WeWork. I am pleased to report the only person I've run into who's even mentioned bitcoin is one of my colleagues in my own office, and me and the controller both throw shade whenever he does.
I think the culture of your particular WeWork is actually affected by the location. We're in a building that's in Midtown Manhattan surrounded by a lot of other more traditional office-y buildings (the bank I worked at for 8 years is one block away), so the crowd here skews a little more towards "startups for people who are from more traditional environments, and are just too broke to afford a dedicated office right now". I think I've seen a couple of NYC city office outposts in here as well; annex offices that just needed extra space. There's the whole WeWork thing of free food and beer on tap and whatever, but most people just pick up the free food and go rather than signing on to any member-office team-building bullshit, because all the members here are sort of like "I have shit to do, this isn't Silicon Valley Millennialville here."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:57 AM on February 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
I think the culture of your particular WeWork is actually affected by the location. We're in a building that's in Midtown Manhattan surrounded by a lot of other more traditional office-y buildings (the bank I worked at for 8 years is one block away), so the crowd here skews a little more towards "startups for people who are from more traditional environments, and are just too broke to afford a dedicated office right now". I think I've seen a couple of NYC city office outposts in here as well; annex offices that just needed extra space. There's the whole WeWork thing of free food and beer on tap and whatever, but most people just pick up the free food and go rather than signing on to any member-office team-building bullshit, because all the members here are sort of like "I have shit to do, this isn't Silicon Valley Millennialville here."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:57 AM on February 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
in his company, failure was not an option. It was against their corporate culture and not part of their design or decision process
'You're a fool -- and a failure.
In the very act of declaring failure is not an option, you failed.'
posted by jamjam at 8:02 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
'You're a fool -- and a failure.
In the very act of declaring failure is not an option, you failed.'
posted by jamjam at 8:02 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
How Big Is Your Handbasket?
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:03 AM on February 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:03 AM on February 19, 2018 [9 favorites]
He said that's the kind of thing he'd expect something from "my generation of computing."
WELL ACTUALLY there were also plenty of cowboys in our cohort (teh olds) who believed that their code never had errors in it
posted by thelonius at 8:04 AM on February 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
WELL ACTUALLY there were also plenty of cowboys in our cohort (teh olds) who believed that their code never had errors in it
posted by thelonius at 8:04 AM on February 19, 2018 [16 favorites]
Is this an appropriate thread to discuss Meetup's unusual practice of adding fake profiles to meetups? At the risk of accusing people of being fake geek girls, there's a pattern I've seen on boardgame meetups, where a woman with a profile better suited to Tindr will RSVP then no-show. Their profile is otherwise empty, and my observed track record of their attendance is zero percent. And it's not just me, a friend said his college roommate RSVP'd for a small local meetup, which struck him as unusual as he lives on the other side of the US and wasn't traveling at the time.
It seems like Meetup is trying to juice RSVPs, for reasons unfathomable to me. I imagine it's a bit like stone soup -- get the stew boilding with an attractive profile, and people will join in -- but it's also kinda disruptive for small venues where you limit attendance to like 10 people and 1 or 2 are bots. I know the first rule of growth hacking is to not talk about growth hacking, but I'd really like an explanation for this. My best guess is that they're added to push the member count above the free tier, so if someone has a less shitty explanation, I'm all ears.
posted by pwnguin at 8:12 AM on February 19, 2018 [14 favorites]
It seems like Meetup is trying to juice RSVPs, for reasons unfathomable to me. I imagine it's a bit like stone soup -- get the stew boilding with an attractive profile, and people will join in -- but it's also kinda disruptive for small venues where you limit attendance to like 10 people and 1 or 2 are bots. I know the first rule of growth hacking is to not talk about growth hacking, but I'd really like an explanation for this. My best guess is that they're added to push the member count above the free tier, so if someone has a less shitty explanation, I'm all ears.
posted by pwnguin at 8:12 AM on February 19, 2018 [14 favorites]
The other day I walked by SEIU picketing WeWork in San Francisco and thinking, "Oh yeah, what are those sleazebags up to these days?" Buying and ruining other tech companies, I guess.
posted by AlSweigart at 8:13 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by AlSweigart at 8:13 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
"Hey guys - we're gonna do a little brainstorming! Mix things up! Get you out of your COMFORT ZONE and challenge your assumptions! So, whaddya say - let's spitball some ideas - a quick break-the-ice party game so we put everybody on the spot to come up with a useless forgettable fact about themselves! Whiteboard sessions - blue sky design - who wants to go first? There are NO stupid ideas!"
"That's a stupid idea"
posted by parki at 8:17 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
"That's a stupid idea"
posted by parki at 8:17 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
Sometimes it feels every startup that claims to be "different" should have a countdown clock where the alarm is Ron Howard saying "It wasn't".
posted by lmfsilva at 8:25 AM on February 19, 2018 [32 favorites]
posted by lmfsilva at 8:25 AM on February 19, 2018 [32 favorites]
That Jekyll/Hyde slideshow. Seeing changes that make sense (direct feedback! clear expectations!) followed by slides that could be paraphrased as "Fuck empathy" and "No cautious people allowed" is a master class in dissonance.
posted by kimberussell at 8:41 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 8:41 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
It's kind of disturbing that, all through the article, tolerating the "needs" of LGBT and female employees (to what, cooperate? Be nice to each other?) is framed as an accommodation or an obstacle to a company's profitability. Meanwhile the "needs" of tech-bros to compete among themselves and "put each other out of their comfort zones" is seen as a benefit. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that that's the case, and I suspect the opposite is true. I think it's a pernicious cultural orthodoxy that needs to die, yesterday.
posted by klanawa at 8:43 AM on February 19, 2018 [64 favorites]
posted by klanawa at 8:43 AM on February 19, 2018 [64 favorites]
I've been to the WeWork over on the 'Silicon Roundabout' here in London a few times now.
Don't forget to tell them about the single most offensively-named building in London, right across the way: "White Collar Factory." I'm sure the blockchain-and-AI derpery runs just as thick and deep there.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:56 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Don't forget to tell them about the single most offensively-named building in London, right across the way: "White Collar Factory." I'm sure the blockchain-and-AI derpery runs just as thick and deep there.
posted by adamgreenfield at 8:56 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I find it interesting that this debate is happening about Meetup in particular - because it has always seemed to me as the epitome of a web service that does the job of putting people in touch and then gets right out of the way. If you want to find a local community of hikers or Spanish speakers - of for that matter an analogous set of groups in a place you were visiting - then Meeting space was something that would let you do that: from that point onwards, your "meetup experience" would be that of the people that you met - not of "meetup"itself. Somewhere in the background of a meeting, there would be a person who would collect a subscription to pay to the company for their various services - but that was pretty much it.
When the article started mentioning the "mess" at meetup I was interested in hearing how the company was screwing around with that simple and effective model - but it seems like, at this stage, the changes are mostly affecting the employees of the company itself. Is this happening?
posted by rongorongo at 8:57 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
When the article started mentioning the "mess" at meetup I was interested in hearing how the company was screwing around with that simple and effective model - but it seems like, at this stage, the changes are mostly affecting the employees of the company itself. Is this happening?
posted by rongorongo at 8:57 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
rongorongo: "When the article started mentioning the "mess" at meetup I was interested in hearing how the company was screwing around with that simple and effective model - but it seems like, at this stage, the changes are mostly affecting the employees of the company itself. Is this happening?"
Almost certainly. Meetup was an old web property that respected a mission higher than page views. I'd expect their offering to change substantially in the next 6 mo-1 yr.
posted by TypographicalError at 9:07 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Almost certainly. Meetup was an old web property that respected a mission higher than page views. I'd expect their offering to change substantially in the next 6 mo-1 yr.
posted by TypographicalError at 9:07 AM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've only used Meetup sporadically in the last few years but I still dislike the "modern" redesign they've done recently. It does stuff like start the list of a group's meetups with a bunch of past meetups, for some reason, and populate the default "see all my meetups" list with "suggested" meetup groups by default and not just meetups for groups I'm actually in.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:13 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by EndsOfInvention at 9:13 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
WELL ACTUALLY there were also plenty of cowboys in our cohort (teh olds) who believed that their code never had errors in it
Everybody, at first. We grow up.
Someone I mentored, who we practically had to beat a defensive, conservative, paranoid mindset into, is now at the point of mentoring people himself - people who think just like he used to. It's a source of wry amusement for both of us.
posted by Leon at 9:22 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
Everybody, at first. We grow up.
Someone I mentored, who we practically had to beat a defensive, conservative, paranoid mindset into, is now at the point of mentoring people himself - people who think just like he used to. It's a source of wry amusement for both of us.
posted by Leon at 9:22 AM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
WeWork: A $20 Billion Startup Fueled by Silicon Valley Pixie Dust. (Paywall-free link.) It sure sounds like a crazy cult.
Binding arbitration clauses are pure evil. Their use to cover up sexual harassment is particularly odious, although it looks like someone's working on changing that. Still, this kind of abusive employment contract is the best argument I've heard yet for a union for tech company employees.
posted by Nelson at 9:23 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
Binding arbitration clauses are pure evil. Their use to cover up sexual harassment is particularly odious, although it looks like someone's working on changing that. Still, this kind of abusive employment contract is the best argument I've heard yet for a union for tech company employees.
posted by Nelson at 9:23 AM on February 19, 2018 [6 favorites]
I think the culture of your particular WeWork is actually affected by the location.
I think this is true of tech in general. In my experience, startups in New York are much more focused on “being a viable business that works towards being profitable” rather than “crushing it and changing the world via leveraged blockchain something something”, and the employees of the big tech companies here seem to be more mature and generally have their shit together more than their West Coast brethren.
My theory is that it has to do with the fact that unlike in California, where tech is the end-all and be-all, tech in New York is just another industry. It’ll never be as rich as banking or as cool as fashion or have the reach of media, and everyone knows that and acts accordingly.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:28 AM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
I think this is true of tech in general. In my experience, startups in New York are much more focused on “being a viable business that works towards being profitable” rather than “crushing it and changing the world via leveraged blockchain something something”, and the employees of the big tech companies here seem to be more mature and generally have their shit together more than their West Coast brethren.
My theory is that it has to do with the fact that unlike in California, where tech is the end-all and be-all, tech in New York is just another industry. It’ll never be as rich as banking or as cool as fashion or have the reach of media, and everyone knows that and acts accordingly.
posted by Itaxpica at 9:28 AM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
I can't help but think that an average class of grade school kids would come up with more sensible business models than an average passel of techbro disruptors, to be honest. Kids are often quite practical-minded.
(I assume WeWork gets a piece of the action, though, if any of their business ideas make any money.)
posted by halation at 9:33 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
(I assume WeWork gets a piece of the action, though, if any of their business ideas make any money.)
posted by halation at 9:33 AM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
So it's a Regus at 10x+ the price?
posted by Slackermagee at 10:17 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Slackermagee at 10:17 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
WeWork is a real estate management company.
Meetup stagnated for years and years, such that it took them years after smartphones became A Thing to add "add to calendar" links for iCal/gCal, and they still don't send email reminders. My opinion is that $30MM seems low for what Meetup could have been, but is probably about right for the sidewalk-basic website that it is. It's nice that the company is diverse and all that, but wtf have they being doing all day?
All in all, it sounds like the Meetup underlings should have unionized.
posted by rhizome at 10:32 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Meetup stagnated for years and years, such that it took them years after smartphones became A Thing to add "add to calendar" links for iCal/gCal, and they still don't send email reminders. My opinion is that $30MM seems low for what Meetup could have been, but is probably about right for the sidewalk-basic website that it is. It's nice that the company is diverse and all that, but wtf have they being doing all day?
All in all, it sounds like the Meetup underlings should have unionized.
posted by rhizome at 10:32 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
He said that's the kind of thing he'd expect something from "my generation of computing."
WELL ACTUALLY there were also plenty of cowboys in our cohort (teh olds) who believed that their code never had errors in it
we can in fact go through as many cosomogonies as we want and find egocentrism. Humans are created, ego is created. "I'M TEH BEST LOOKIT ME STICKIN' IT TO GAWD" may as well be the rallying cry parallel to their creator deities saying "oh shit i fucked up" while headdesking.
posted by fraula at 10:33 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
WELL ACTUALLY there were also plenty of cowboys in our cohort (teh olds) who believed that their code never had errors in it
we can in fact go through as many cosomogonies as we want and find egocentrism. Humans are created, ego is created. "I'M TEH BEST LOOKIT ME STICKIN' IT TO GAWD" may as well be the rallying cry parallel to their creator deities saying "oh shit i fucked up" while headdesking.
posted by fraula at 10:33 AM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I can't help but feel like this is the direct result of letting trillions of dollars accumulate in the hands of the 1% over the last several decades. Eventually, all the good opportunities for investment are taken, but you still have to find a place to park all those dollars, so VC funding gets increasingly absurd.
My cats are ready to launch sunbeem, a feline-centric app that enhances napping and disrupts kibble. It's still in the testing stage, but send on your $10 millions; I'm sure I can spend it on something to enhance the experience.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:39 AM on February 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
My cats are ready to launch sunbeem, a feline-centric app that enhances napping and disrupts kibble. It's still in the testing stage, but send on your $10 millions; I'm sure I can spend it on something to enhance the experience.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:39 AM on February 19, 2018 [13 favorites]
From the Pixie Dust article:
“We frankly are our own category", said Artie Minson, WeWork’s president and chief financial officer in an interview. “We use real estate and services to empower our community.”
So what commercial tenancy laws are they flagrantly violating then that they needed to come out and say this.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:41 AM on February 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
“We frankly are our own category", said Artie Minson, WeWork’s president and chief financial officer in an interview. “We use real estate and services to empower our community.”
So what commercial tenancy laws are they flagrantly violating then that they needed to come out and say this.
posted by Slackermagee at 10:41 AM on February 19, 2018 [15 favorites]
God, MeetUp was ridiculously important when it came to climbing out of my depression and getting out of the house. Singles groups, Movie groups, RPG gaming groups, they were all wonderful.
This, of course, was back in the early 2000's, before MeetUp started charging group organizers, and they, in turn, started charging group members.
Once those shenanigans started, along with a plethora of MLM opportunities disguised as groups, I was out of there.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:42 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
This, of course, was back in the early 2000's, before MeetUp started charging group organizers, and they, in turn, started charging group members.
Once those shenanigans started, along with a plethora of MLM opportunities disguised as groups, I was out of there.
posted by Major Matt Mason Dixon at 10:42 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
There's the whole WeWork thing of free food and beer on tap and whatever, but most people just pick up the free food and go rather than signing on to any member-office team-building bullshit, because all the members here are sort of like "I have shit to do, this isn't Silicon Valley Millennialville here."
Can confirm, have eaten lots of free food and attended almost zero in the way of info sessions or networking events. At my Philly location half of the population is IBM trainees anyhow, there for only a week.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:57 AM on February 19, 2018
Can confirm, have eaten lots of free food and attended almost zero in the way of info sessions or networking events. At my Philly location half of the population is IBM trainees anyhow, there for only a week.
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:57 AM on February 19, 2018
Having, during my attempt to be a freelancer phase, worked at both Regus and WeWork properties for meetings, I would mark Regus better.
At the WeWork property, I actually had to apologize - and didn't get the client I was trying to get - because of people there being screaming gits, yelling across an office at each other.
That was in Seattle, so as always, YMMV.
posted by mephron at 11:11 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
At the WeWork property, I actually had to apologize - and didn't get the client I was trying to get - because of people there being screaming gits, yelling across an office at each other.
That was in Seattle, so as always, YMMV.
posted by mephron at 11:11 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
rhizome: WeWork is a real estate management company.
Ding ding ding ding ding!
My parents both work(ed) in commercial real estate, here's their read on WeWork and other co-working space subletters like it (as explained to me over dinner):
Property owners want the highest occupancy they can manage while doing as little work as possible to get it, so the traditional model is to hire other people to handle all the moving parts for them. There are brokers, agents, property management companies, etc etc all working for the property owners to bring in new tenants and keep occupancy high/churn rates down.
WeWork came in and said "hey, we'll pay you for a huge chunk of space in your building so you don't have to worry about occupancy anymore", so the property owners feel like they're winning, and then WeWork turns around and markets premium (subleased) office space at triple or more the price per sqft it would have been leased to other tenants. How do they sell it? By targeting folks who run companies fueled by VC money and then making it SUPER attractive for them to work there. Like, your company won't be as successful if you don't work here.
Their marketing strategy "Hey you, privileged go-getter with cash to blow! Rent an open-air desk or closet-sized office here and be around other high-flyers like yourself! Free beer/coffee! Free internet! Pay a flat fee and let us take care of the rest!"
And the thing is, it's not such a bad deal if you want to project a professional image for yourself without the hassle of renting office space on your own, setting up the business internet connection, putting signage on the door, etc etc etc. I've done it both ways (and others, like subleasing from an existing company's office space), and the amount of time a desk at WeWork saves you is totally worth the cost of entry for a lot of people/businesses.
WeWork is doing the property owners a HUGE favor by occupying a big footprint. It's all pretty low-maintenance compared to other tenants who could lease the space. There are no intensive property management demands like other commercial uses (eg restaurants). Location for new WeWorks isn't super important, as long as its accessible by Uber, so they can happily spread and thrive in less-than-desireable neighborhoods, like the location in Seattle on the border between Pioneer Square and the International District with very little parking and tons of homelessness issues.
Acquiring Meetup, which was already hosting and promoting a ton of events in WeWorks across the country every month, including events I've run before, makes all the sense in the world -- they host events in their spaces for cheap or free to give prospective leasers a tour of the property and make them look like a hub for social/networking activity. Why not also control the mouth that's feeding your sales funnel? Again, projecting: you won't be as successful if you don't work here right in the middle of the action.
Regus has been around for a long time, operating on the same model, but WeWork is way more high-profile and desirable in the tech space and spreading like wildfire because of it. It's all marketing. Literally the only different between WeWork and Regus is marketing (and free beer).
posted by Snacks at 11:12 AM on February 19, 2018 [20 favorites]
Ding ding ding ding ding!
My parents both work(ed) in commercial real estate, here's their read on WeWork and other co-working space subletters like it (as explained to me over dinner):
Property owners want the highest occupancy they can manage while doing as little work as possible to get it, so the traditional model is to hire other people to handle all the moving parts for them. There are brokers, agents, property management companies, etc etc all working for the property owners to bring in new tenants and keep occupancy high/churn rates down.
WeWork came in and said "hey, we'll pay you for a huge chunk of space in your building so you don't have to worry about occupancy anymore", so the property owners feel like they're winning, and then WeWork turns around and markets premium (subleased) office space at triple or more the price per sqft it would have been leased to other tenants. How do they sell it? By targeting folks who run companies fueled by VC money and then making it SUPER attractive for them to work there. Like, your company won't be as successful if you don't work here.
Their marketing strategy "Hey you, privileged go-getter with cash to blow! Rent an open-air desk or closet-sized office here and be around other high-flyers like yourself! Free beer/coffee! Free internet! Pay a flat fee and let us take care of the rest!"
And the thing is, it's not such a bad deal if you want to project a professional image for yourself without the hassle of renting office space on your own, setting up the business internet connection, putting signage on the door, etc etc etc. I've done it both ways (and others, like subleasing from an existing company's office space), and the amount of time a desk at WeWork saves you is totally worth the cost of entry for a lot of people/businesses.
WeWork is doing the property owners a HUGE favor by occupying a big footprint. It's all pretty low-maintenance compared to other tenants who could lease the space. There are no intensive property management demands like other commercial uses (eg restaurants). Location for new WeWorks isn't super important, as long as its accessible by Uber, so they can happily spread and thrive in less-than-desireable neighborhoods, like the location in Seattle on the border between Pioneer Square and the International District with very little parking and tons of homelessness issues.
Acquiring Meetup, which was already hosting and promoting a ton of events in WeWorks across the country every month, including events I've run before, makes all the sense in the world -- they host events in their spaces for cheap or free to give prospective leasers a tour of the property and make them look like a hub for social/networking activity. Why not also control the mouth that's feeding your sales funnel? Again, projecting: you won't be as successful if you don't work here right in the middle of the action.
Regus has been around for a long time, operating on the same model, but WeWork is way more high-profile and desirable in the tech space and spreading like wildfire because of it. It's all marketing. Literally the only different between WeWork and Regus is marketing (and free beer).
posted by Snacks at 11:12 AM on February 19, 2018 [20 favorites]
Can I just ask - what's with the free beer? This is one of those perks that I see get pushed with tech startups, and as someone who doesn't drink by choice, the way it gets used makes me feel uncomfortable and isolated.
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:45 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by NoxAeternum at 11:45 AM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
"Free beer" is a signifier for "we are young".
posted by Nelson at 11:48 AM on February 19, 2018 [34 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 11:48 AM on February 19, 2018 [34 favorites]
the way it gets used makes me feel uncomfortable and isolated
Yep! It's a clubhouse with a sign on the door that says "Certain Types of White Guys Only, And Hot Girlz". It's a useless perk for parents or other types of caretakers who need to get home, people who don't use alcohol for religious reasons (bonus: often brown), people who just want to work and leave for whatever reason. It helps attract and retain young white men, and a couple of single girls, who can be paid less than experienced grownups and think that free snacks make up for the salary.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:50 AM on February 19, 2018 [34 favorites]
Yep! It's a clubhouse with a sign on the door that says "Certain Types of White Guys Only, And Hot Girlz". It's a useless perk for parents or other types of caretakers who need to get home, people who don't use alcohol for religious reasons (bonus: often brown), people who just want to work and leave for whatever reason. It helps attract and retain young white men, and a couple of single girls, who can be paid less than experienced grownups and think that free snacks make up for the salary.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:50 AM on February 19, 2018 [34 favorites]
The ridiculous thing is that the cost of leasing "traditional" office space plus furniture, amenities, etc usually always turns out cheaper than what WeWork costs. There's a reason why it's mostly filled with VC-fueled startups and the like enticed by the hype + beer. Most other companies do the math and it doesn't make sense.
Every time I step into a WeWork or similar space, it seriously reminds me of a prison. Dozens of walled off rooms crammed with a handful of people inside, except it's windowed, so everyone can see each other. Might as well sub bars than glass doors. How are people motivated in that type of situation? I thought open office plans are bad, but those spaces are even worse IMO.
posted by xtine at 11:53 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Every time I step into a WeWork or similar space, it seriously reminds me of a prison. Dozens of walled off rooms crammed with a handful of people inside, except it's windowed, so everyone can see each other. Might as well sub bars than glass doors. How are people motivated in that type of situation? I thought open office plans are bad, but those spaces are even worse IMO.
posted by xtine at 11:53 AM on February 19, 2018 [2 favorites]
Dang, y'all, get a mini fridge and some six-packs. (Also drinking at work? After work? Is that what this is about? Doesn't that lead to... lower productivity? Have I been able to just sit here with a glass of Chardonnay this whole time and no one told me?)
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:19 PM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by soren_lorensen at 12:19 PM on February 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
I can't help but think that an average class of grade school kids would come up with more sensible business models than an average passel of techbro disruptors, to be honest. Kids are often quite practical-minded.
There is a child run business in my front yard at least once a month.
All of their business plans seem to involve selling things I have paid for while keeping all the profits.
I'm anticipating high VC interest even though the exit strategy appears to be "leave everything on the lawn".
posted by madajb at 12:19 PM on February 19, 2018 [48 favorites]
There is a child run business in my front yard at least once a month.
All of their business plans seem to involve selling things I have paid for while keeping all the profits.
I'm anticipating high VC interest even though the exit strategy appears to be "leave everything on the lawn".
posted by madajb at 12:19 PM on February 19, 2018 [48 favorites]
I dunno, to my mind Meetup jumped the shark years ago. It started out as a way to get people to meet each other, but then it became a place for gross networky type businesses to draw in new customers. Yuck. I still use it on occasion to find tech meetups, but that seems like a far cry from its original lofty ambitions Also, their UI hasn't changed since 2006.
posted by panama joe at 12:30 PM on February 19, 2018
posted by panama joe at 12:30 PM on February 19, 2018
"Also, their UI hasn't changed since 2006."
"I've only used Meetup sporadically in the last few years but I still dislike the "modern" redesign they've done recently."
Can't please everyone, I guess!
"they still don't send email reminders"
I get email reminders.
(Satisfied occasional attendee of events organized through meetup.)
posted by floppyroofing at 12:40 PM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
"I've only used Meetup sporadically in the last few years but I still dislike the "modern" redesign they've done recently."
Can't please everyone, I guess!
"they still don't send email reminders"
I get email reminders.
(Satisfied occasional attendee of events organized through meetup.)
posted by floppyroofing at 12:40 PM on February 19, 2018 [5 favorites]
Every time I step into a WeWork or similar space, it seriously reminds me of a prison.
My first visit to a WeWork was London's Moorgate building, and I had exactly that impression. I was interviewing for a job with a "disruptive ad company" (sigh) which was run by chatty 12-year old. My desk would have been in a tiny room with 6 other men. I noped out of there for a number of reasons, but the stink of BO was the main contributer.
The second time was at the South Bank office for a company for whom I now work. My interview was in a tiny 4x8 room and almost impossible to get through but I knew that they were only there until their new spanking brand-new office was being built. They offered me a job, and I started with them the week after they moved into the office conveniently located 10 minutes walk from my flat.
I would not work in a WeWork building because the whole environment seems geared to not getting any work done.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:47 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
My first visit to a WeWork was London's Moorgate building, and I had exactly that impression. I was interviewing for a job with a "disruptive ad company" (sigh) which was run by chatty 12-year old. My desk would have been in a tiny room with 6 other men. I noped out of there for a number of reasons, but the stink of BO was the main contributer.
The second time was at the South Bank office for a company for whom I now work. My interview was in a tiny 4x8 room and almost impossible to get through but I knew that they were only there until their new spanking brand-new office was being built. They offered me a job, and I started with them the week after they moved into the office conveniently located 10 minutes walk from my flat.
I would not work in a WeWork building because the whole environment seems geared to not getting any work done.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 12:47 PM on February 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I get email reminders.
Reminders of events you've signed up for, or reminders for events that you may or may not have signed up for? I went through the settings to figure out if the former was possible and came up empty handed. It's been a few years, though.
posted by rhizome at 1:02 PM on February 19, 2018
Reminders of events you've signed up for, or reminders for events that you may or may not have signed up for? I went through the settings to figure out if the former was possible and came up empty handed. It's been a few years, though.
posted by rhizome at 1:02 PM on February 19, 2018
"Reminders of events you've signed up for, or reminders for events that you may or may not have signed up for?"
I get both. Digging around.... It's not a Meetup-wide preference, so you have to choose one of your groups, then there's a drop-down memory somewhere on the group page with a "notifications" option, that takes you to a page with notification options. Well, but you do also need to check that your email address is set right in your meetup-wide profile.
posted by floppyroofing at 1:13 PM on February 19, 2018
I get both. Digging around.... It's not a Meetup-wide preference, so you have to choose one of your groups, then there's a drop-down memory somewhere on the group page with a "notifications" option, that takes you to a page with notification options. Well, but you do also need to check that your email address is set right in your meetup-wide profile.
posted by floppyroofing at 1:13 PM on February 19, 2018
I have always hated Meetup, mostly because it seems like as a business it was mostly just started so that people never again had an excuse to be lonely. Seriously, read any question on the Green about social isolation and count the comments until Meetup is suggested as a panacea, as if we were all one monthly board game group or trivia night away from true friends. You know, some of us are just weird, we have a hard time meeting our people IRL for lots of legitimate reasons, and Meetups just. don't. cut it.
But god, there are soooo few tech workplaces that try to be welcoming and humane and diversity-friendly in any real, committed way, and it's sad to see one bite the dust.
posted by potrzebie at 1:25 PM on February 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
But god, there are soooo few tech workplaces that try to be welcoming and humane and diversity-friendly in any real, committed way, and it's sad to see one bite the dust.
posted by potrzebie at 1:25 PM on February 19, 2018 [7 favorites]
1. How on earth has WeWork managed to convince the world they're a tech company? That's some amazing marketing/branding. I guess they're tech-by-association?
2. The description of what started happening at Meetup is so familiar from having worked for organizations going through similar existential threats and identity crises. Endless cycles of pronouncements from "leadership" about the new purpose/direction, massive staff attrition ... And these were not tech companies, or even companies (they're nonprofits).
I actually emailed the link to a former colleague with this pullquote, and we both agreed it was eerily familiar: "There was a pervasive sense that the company wasn’t moving fast enough, the former employees said, which left some workers buried under an ever-growing list of tasks while others were directionless, without a clear idea of what they were supposed to be doing."
This is such a clear sign of upper management panicking and abdicating responsibility for actual leadership, and it's just so freaking common.
posted by lunasol at 1:55 PM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
2. The description of what started happening at Meetup is so familiar from having worked for organizations going through similar existential threats and identity crises. Endless cycles of pronouncements from "leadership" about the new purpose/direction, massive staff attrition ... And these were not tech companies, or even companies (they're nonprofits).
I actually emailed the link to a former colleague with this pullquote, and we both agreed it was eerily familiar: "There was a pervasive sense that the company wasn’t moving fast enough, the former employees said, which left some workers buried under an ever-growing list of tasks while others were directionless, without a clear idea of what they were supposed to be doing."
This is such a clear sign of upper management panicking and abdicating responsibility for actual leadership, and it's just so freaking common.
posted by lunasol at 1:55 PM on February 19, 2018 [8 favorites]
The ridiculous thing is that the cost of leasing "traditional" office space plus furniture, amenities, etc usually always turns out cheaper than what WeWork costs.
It's possible that is true for a particular subset of WeWork businesses, but it's absolutely not true as a general statement.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 3:48 PM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
It's possible that is true for a particular subset of WeWork businesses, but it's absolutely not true as a general statement.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 3:48 PM on February 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
drinking at work? After work? Is that what this is about? Doesn't that lead to... lower productivity?
It depends. Veteran spaces were doing this for a while, beer at work, and it increased productivity, but that’s because veteran spaces had a high proportion of functioning alcoholics for whom three beers was “a light refreshment that takes the edge off my PTSD” rather than “now I am going to be actually drunk”.
Most of the tech spaces I see with beer just seem to be performing masculinity instead.
posted by corb at 4:03 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
It depends. Veteran spaces were doing this for a while, beer at work, and it increased productivity, but that’s because veteran spaces had a high proportion of functioning alcoholics for whom three beers was “a light refreshment that takes the edge off my PTSD” rather than “now I am going to be actually drunk”.
Most of the tech spaces I see with beer just seem to be performing masculinity instead.
posted by corb at 4:03 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
I guess the free onsite beer could help facilitate cocktail meetings with clients, if you're sure your clients want beer.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:51 PM on February 19, 2018
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:51 PM on February 19, 2018
We've had beer in the fridge of every job I've ever had since I was 20, I think (I'm 40 now). No one drinks beer during the day. If someone is working late or a few people are hanging around bullshitting at the end of the day, sure. If there's any kind of party or something, sure. That's about it.
posted by RustyBrooks at 4:53 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by RustyBrooks at 4:53 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
My small company was ensconced in a WeWork for several months in between office moves and I spent a moderate amount of time scoping out the beer supplies, not so much because I am a tech bro as because I like drinking beer and hey, free beer. They once had a keg of Corona Light in the middle of February, and more often than not there were three kegs of sickly-sweet cider on the five floors available. As for the rest of their shtick about "being around other people who you can network with to build great things" I didn't see it, and the overall impression was more like being in a large disorganized office building, but with agonizingly slow elevator service and a whole set of annoying mailing lists. Probably the best thing that happened there was that one of my co-workers befriended the founder of Fondudes, purveyor of fondue-themed male entertainment, whose WeWork cube station was nearby.
It's nice that the company is diverse and all that, but wtf have they being doing all day?
As somebody who has used Meetup from the event-management side a little bit, I have to agree, and most people I know who have used the organizer side of it have complained to me about it. I don't work there but they really don't seem to have been improving the bits of the software I've used in the slightest for quite a while, and it could really use some work. (I should hasten to add that I'm sure this has nothing to do with how diverse their company is or is not, I just honestly have no idea if they've been working on any features at all, and I had sort of assumed they were just running on autopilot.)
I agree that WeWork is basically a big real-estate concern, and am not at all surprised that investors are lining up to bet on naked, uncomplicated rent-seeking. I've talked to some smart people in the commercial real estate industry who are convinced that it's a huge bubble which is going to crash and burn, though, largely based on how their leases relate to the rest of their business model (the argument sounded convincing, but I can't replicate it precisely).
posted by whir at 6:52 PM on February 19, 2018
It's nice that the company is diverse and all that, but wtf have they being doing all day?
As somebody who has used Meetup from the event-management side a little bit, I have to agree, and most people I know who have used the organizer side of it have complained to me about it. I don't work there but they really don't seem to have been improving the bits of the software I've used in the slightest for quite a while, and it could really use some work. (I should hasten to add that I'm sure this has nothing to do with how diverse their company is or is not, I just honestly have no idea if they've been working on any features at all, and I had sort of assumed they were just running on autopilot.)
I agree that WeWork is basically a big real-estate concern, and am not at all surprised that investors are lining up to bet on naked, uncomplicated rent-seeking. I've talked to some smart people in the commercial real estate industry who are convinced that it's a huge bubble which is going to crash and burn, though, largely based on how their leases relate to the rest of their business model (the argument sounded convincing, but I can't replicate it precisely).
posted by whir at 6:52 PM on February 19, 2018
Reminds me to cancel a little used meetup I own, $180/year is a lot for a group calendar & email list.
posted by TheAdamist at 6:55 PM on February 19, 2018
posted by TheAdamist at 6:55 PM on February 19, 2018
At the risk of accusing people of being fake geek girls, there's a pattern I've seen on boardgame meetups, where a woman with a profile better suited to Tindr will RSVP then no-show. Their profile is otherwise empty, and my observed track record of their attendance is zero percent.
That doesn't sound like "fake geek girls" (i.e. actual women geeks being accused of faking or exaggerating their interest in nerdly pursuits by gatekeeping misogynists) as much as their Ashley Madisoning it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:56 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
That doesn't sound like "fake geek girls" (i.e. actual women geeks being accused of faking or exaggerating their interest in nerdly pursuits by gatekeeping misogynists) as much as their Ashley Madisoning it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:56 PM on February 19, 2018 [10 favorites]
So it's a Regus at 10x+ the price?
Unless Regus gives you a private office with no contract for just over the price of tank of gas per month, no.
posted by sideshow at 8:51 PM on February 19, 2018
Unless Regus gives you a private office with no contract for just over the price of tank of gas per month, no.
posted by sideshow at 8:51 PM on February 19, 2018
It's Regus at some smaller multiplier, with better aesthetics and I suppose in the right business the networking benefits might be meaningful.
But people really need to stop assigning value to phone systems and internet access. That really is tremendously easy to do yourself. VOIP isn't hard. You get a hosted Asterisk-based PBX and buy some voice trunking from Flowroute or VOIP.ms....you can even get by with wireless voice and data at your office until you're past the incubation stage, if in short term space. It doesn't have to be a franchised co-working space. (Wireless voice could mean using cell phones or it could mean trunking VOIP over a cellular data gateway, or via a GSM/SIP gateway.)
In fact, until you're out of the starting blocks, a Burner or Sideline number and a rented mailbox will do.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:23 PM on February 19, 2018
But people really need to stop assigning value to phone systems and internet access. That really is tremendously easy to do yourself. VOIP isn't hard. You get a hosted Asterisk-based PBX and buy some voice trunking from Flowroute or VOIP.ms....you can even get by with wireless voice and data at your office until you're past the incubation stage, if in short term space. It doesn't have to be a franchised co-working space. (Wireless voice could mean using cell phones or it could mean trunking VOIP over a cellular data gateway, or via a GSM/SIP gateway.)
In fact, until you're out of the starting blocks, a Burner or Sideline number and a rented mailbox will do.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:23 PM on February 19, 2018
I guess the free onsite beer could help facilitate cocktail meetings with clients, if you're sure your clients want beer.
You say this like we didn't just hand over a bunch of mixers and glassware to the new guy because the movers won't take it into our shiny new office, and nobody's confident enough to take 'the corner HR forgot' to the new offices next to ... HR.
That doesn't sound like "fake geek girls" (i.e. actual women geeks being accused of faking or exaggerating their interest in nerdly pursuits by gatekeeping misogynists)
I mean, they could be real people with social phobias, so in some sense I have to fill in the blanks with statistics and stereotypes to make sense of the world. So I think it somewhat fair to be upfront where the bias lies.
posted by pwnguin at 10:11 PM on February 19, 2018
You say this like we didn't just hand over a bunch of mixers and glassware to the new guy because the movers won't take it into our shiny new office, and nobody's confident enough to take 'the corner HR forgot' to the new offices next to ... HR.
That doesn't sound like "fake geek girls" (i.e. actual women geeks being accused of faking or exaggerating their interest in nerdly pursuits by gatekeeping misogynists)
I mean, they could be real people with social phobias, so in some sense I have to fill in the blanks with statistics and stereotypes to make sense of the world. So I think it somewhat fair to be upfront where the bias lies.
posted by pwnguin at 10:11 PM on February 19, 2018
Also drinking at work? After work? Is that what this is about? Doesn't that lead to... lower productivity?
Depends on what you're working on and how much you drink.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:38 AM on February 20, 2018
Depends on what you're working on and how much you drink.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:38 AM on February 20, 2018
Regus doesn't publish prices. You have to fill out a form and they'll "get back to you." WeWork, on the other hand, lays it all out.
WeWork also doesn't engage in the sort of exclusivity gatekeeping that other spaces do, where they are attempting to "curate" their membership and require you to prove how cool you are or whatever. You pay the money, you have a spot. You are also free to be anonymous, unlike many smaller community-oriented coworking spaces which can feel extremely cliquish.
Compared to what the coworking scene was just 5 years ago - a patchwork of independent spaces of varying quality, long wait lists (and premium prices) at the spots with good amenities and locations - it is amazing what is available now, and that is in large part thanks to WeWork. I just tested my (wired) broadband on Ookla - 205.7 down, 907 up. Plus free coffee, commercial-grade mail handling, a prime location that I can walk to. And I haven't heard anything about Blockchain. My desk neighbors have been freelance writers, personal trainers, doctors, investment advisers and medical students. Also: parents! I did know some startup jockeys at the NYC location, some with really good ideas (biotech data analysis tools) and bad ideas (Twitter for audio). But tech startups are super common right now, so of course they're a large portion of the no-contract office space market.
And framing low-commitment office space rental pejoratively as "rent seeking" is ludicrous, even if they are literally seeking rent. Renting office space is what businesses do. Making it cheaper and lower-risk from a TCO standpoint is a net positive. There are lots (lots!) of reasons to dump on WeWork, but providing a high-quality core service with transparent pricing is not one of them.
* I agree that the tiny glass office hives are weird and prison-like. I've only ever worked in the dedicated desk spaces, which are far less claustrophobic and usually adjacent to the main kitchen area.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:47 AM on February 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
WeWork also doesn't engage in the sort of exclusivity gatekeeping that other spaces do, where they are attempting to "curate" their membership and require you to prove how cool you are or whatever. You pay the money, you have a spot. You are also free to be anonymous, unlike many smaller community-oriented coworking spaces which can feel extremely cliquish.
Compared to what the coworking scene was just 5 years ago - a patchwork of independent spaces of varying quality, long wait lists (and premium prices) at the spots with good amenities and locations - it is amazing what is available now, and that is in large part thanks to WeWork. I just tested my (wired) broadband on Ookla - 205.7 down, 907 up. Plus free coffee, commercial-grade mail handling, a prime location that I can walk to. And I haven't heard anything about Blockchain. My desk neighbors have been freelance writers, personal trainers, doctors, investment advisers and medical students. Also: parents! I did know some startup jockeys at the NYC location, some with really good ideas (biotech data analysis tools) and bad ideas (Twitter for audio). But tech startups are super common right now, so of course they're a large portion of the no-contract office space market.
And framing low-commitment office space rental pejoratively as "rent seeking" is ludicrous, even if they are literally seeking rent. Renting office space is what businesses do. Making it cheaper and lower-risk from a TCO standpoint is a net positive. There are lots (lots!) of reasons to dump on WeWork, but providing a high-quality core service with transparent pricing is not one of them.
* I agree that the tiny glass office hives are weird and prison-like. I've only ever worked in the dedicated desk spaces, which are far less claustrophobic and usually adjacent to the main kitchen area.
posted by grumpybear69 at 6:47 AM on February 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
People talk about government work, but holy shit the white-collar private sector these days sounds fucking crazy.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:11 AM on February 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:11 AM on February 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
There was that one crazy year in between the hiring of BossFromHell and her transmogrification to Telecommuting BossFromHell, when it became necessary to keep a water bottle of rum in the bottom drawer for addition to a Diet Coke for the purposes of getting to 4:00 without somebody getting bitchslapped.
TelecommutingBossFromHell could be handled with a single dose of Propranolol before the weekly phone meeting.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:20 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
TelecommutingBossFromHell could be handled with a single dose of Propranolol before the weekly phone meeting.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:20 AM on February 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
I mean, on the one hand, the reason why no one is drinking after hours here at my job is because by 5:03 the lights are off and the place is empty. On the other: many of us have no option to hang out and socialize after work because daycare closes at 6:00 and charges $1/minute if you're late for pick-up, so using the "oh, we're not drinking during the day, we're hanging out and drinking after hours" explanation sounds just as bonkers to me. But hey ho it's a great big tapestry of life out there.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:24 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:24 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
My commute home (from the London WeWork that my employer decided to move us into, even though we are not a small startup) takes 2-2.5 hours, thanks to the unpredictable interaction of the sometimes-delayed Tube with the usually-on-time half-hourly mainline trains home. I'm not doing that sober if I can help it...
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 8:42 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 8:42 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
I just tested my (wired) broadband on Ookla - 205.7 down, 907 up
So? Are you allowed to leave a server rack on top of your rented desk space?
It's a party line, it had better be a big pipe.
Transparency is a big plus vs. Regus and the like, beyond that it's just culture.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:30 AM on February 20, 2018
So? Are you allowed to leave a server rack on top of your rented desk space?
It's a party line, it had better be a big pipe.
Transparency is a big plus vs. Regus and the like, beyond that it's just culture.
posted by snuffleupagus at 9:30 AM on February 20, 2018
Compared to what the coworking scene was just 5 years ago - a patchwork of independent spaces of varying quality, long wait lists (and premium prices) at the spots with good amenities and locations - it is amazing what is available now, and that is in large part thanks to WeWork.
This is diametrically opposed to my experience. A few years ago I had occasion to use coworking spaces and there was a ton of variety within easy walking or biking distance of my apartment. They all allowed you to pay by the day, some by the hour, and I never encountered or witnessed the slightest bit of gatekeeping nor a single waiting list. You showed up and paid. It was great to have options—some places were super office-y, some were more casual, some places had a maker-space vibe with stuff like 3D printers you could use, etc.
A few months ago I had a similar need for short-term space and—there's nothing. WeWork only wants me if I am going to pay its (very high) monthly rates (when I might only use the space a half-dozen days that month). All of their spaces are in neighborhoods that are primarily corporate office space anyway—unlike the old coworking spaces that were spread through residential and mixed-use neighborhoods, so you could find one with a short commute. There is much less flexibility—you can't just show up and work anymore. And they're all exactly the same. I ended up having to work from coffeeshops, which I hate because (a) some places don't like it but they never tell you that up front, and (b) the only way to pay the coffee shop a reasonable amount of money for the use of their space is to buy a bunch of sugary crap I don't like or want.
I would love to still have the coworking options I had five years ago but WeWork has killed them all.
posted by enn at 10:26 AM on February 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is diametrically opposed to my experience. A few years ago I had occasion to use coworking spaces and there was a ton of variety within easy walking or biking distance of my apartment. They all allowed you to pay by the day, some by the hour, and I never encountered or witnessed the slightest bit of gatekeeping nor a single waiting list. You showed up and paid. It was great to have options—some places were super office-y, some were more casual, some places had a maker-space vibe with stuff like 3D printers you could use, etc.
A few months ago I had a similar need for short-term space and—there's nothing. WeWork only wants me if I am going to pay its (very high) monthly rates (when I might only use the space a half-dozen days that month). All of their spaces are in neighborhoods that are primarily corporate office space anyway—unlike the old coworking spaces that were spread through residential and mixed-use neighborhoods, so you could find one with a short commute. There is much less flexibility—you can't just show up and work anymore. And they're all exactly the same. I ended up having to work from coffeeshops, which I hate because (a) some places don't like it but they never tell you that up front, and (b) the only way to pay the coffee shop a reasonable amount of money for the use of their space is to buy a bunch of sugary crap I don't like or want.
I would love to still have the coworking options I had five years ago but WeWork has killed them all.
posted by enn at 10:26 AM on February 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
I would love to still have the coworking options I had five years ago but WeWork has killed them all.
WeWork grabbed up the market, but what killed a lot of independent coworking spaces (aside from rapidly rising commercial real estate prices, presumably) was that the price for a dedicated desk (at least in NYC) became essentially flat across coworking space providers while the amenities (including access to workspaces in different cities and countries) varied wildly. So for $375-$425, you could either join a small coworking spot with OK internet, some beanbags and one location or a large provider with multiple locations, fancy conference rooms and amazing internet. That was one of the reasons I chose WeWork - for the price, going almost anywhere else didn't make much sense. The only space close to me - the Brooklyn Creative League in Gowanus - had a months-long waiting list and was more expensive.
Monthly, dedicated members are the lifeblood of a coworking space. Daily drop-ins are an easy way to add revenue and are a valuable service but won't keep a space afloat if the memberships dry up.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:16 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
WeWork grabbed up the market, but what killed a lot of independent coworking spaces (aside from rapidly rising commercial real estate prices, presumably) was that the price for a dedicated desk (at least in NYC) became essentially flat across coworking space providers while the amenities (including access to workspaces in different cities and countries) varied wildly. So for $375-$425, you could either join a small coworking spot with OK internet, some beanbags and one location or a large provider with multiple locations, fancy conference rooms and amazing internet. That was one of the reasons I chose WeWork - for the price, going almost anywhere else didn't make much sense. The only space close to me - the Brooklyn Creative League in Gowanus - had a months-long waiting list and was more expensive.
Monthly, dedicated members are the lifeblood of a coworking space. Daily drop-ins are an easy way to add revenue and are a valuable service but won't keep a space afloat if the memberships dry up.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:16 AM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Indeed, landlords need renters. But there's not much disruption in that concept.
And just as an aside, Regus does do month-to-month rentals. I'm not a fan, but it's precisely the less sustainable aspects of co-working spaces that make them different from Regus or PBC, etc, if they are different.
And if you're using floating space, or turning to coffee shops, don't forget about the public library. Or less frequented or less public libraries you may have access to (like public law libraries, or college libraries you may be able to use to as an alum or member of something). Some museums have public spaces, with tables and seating, that work well. Sure, you can't take calls in a library -- but neither can anyone else.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:17 PM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
And just as an aside, Regus does do month-to-month rentals. I'm not a fan, but it's precisely the less sustainable aspects of co-working spaces that make them different from Regus or PBC, etc, if they are different.
And if you're using floating space, or turning to coffee shops, don't forget about the public library. Or less frequented or less public libraries you may have access to (like public law libraries, or college libraries you may be able to use to as an alum or member of something). Some museums have public spaces, with tables and seating, that work well. Sure, you can't take calls in a library -- but neither can anyone else.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:17 PM on February 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
There is still (for now) some independent coworking space in midtown Manhattan - The Productive is one option. They are surrounded by, right now, at least 2 WeWorks and a Workville, and are a block away from the building that's becoming the new WeWork headquarters.
posted by matcha action at 4:46 PM on February 20, 2018
posted by matcha action at 4:46 PM on February 20, 2018
I assumed the article was going to be about the recent Meetup.com website dumbing down to make it have the same limited functionality as its phone apps. I have been part of an active Meetup group for nearly a decade that was functioning quite well as a small club of hikers, bikers, equestrians, birders, nature lovers, campers, hunters, star-gazers, snowshoers and skiers centered around a very large Massachusetts state park. (Myles Standish State Forest)
The redesign basically wiped out any group identity and history. We are only as good now as our next upcoming Meetup. (Well, it's not quite that bad but it feels like we lost a lot.) Meetup had been stable, functional, little-changing for a decade.
To me, that is the mess at Meetup. I hope that wework doesn't make it worse. I believe that Meetup currently helps more than 100,000 groups around the world plan and schedule group activities in a much more useful way than Facebook does.
posted by notmtwain at 4:48 AM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
The redesign basically wiped out any group identity and history. We are only as good now as our next upcoming Meetup. (Well, it's not quite that bad but it feels like we lost a lot.) Meetup had been stable, functional, little-changing for a decade.
To me, that is the mess at Meetup. I hope that wework doesn't make it worse. I believe that Meetup currently helps more than 100,000 groups around the world plan and schedule group activities in a much more useful way than Facebook does.
posted by notmtwain at 4:48 AM on February 21, 2018 [2 favorites]
I would love to still have the coworking options I had five years ago but WeWork has killed them all.
Our local business incubator has free coworking in their technology center every Wednesday. The center is funded by the US Department of Energy and matching funds from the State of Ohio.
Grants. Gotta get them.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:51 PM on February 21, 2018
Our local business incubator has free coworking in their technology center every Wednesday. The center is funded by the US Department of Energy and matching funds from the State of Ohio.
Grants. Gotta get them.
posted by chainsofreedom at 3:51 PM on February 21, 2018
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If employees were unable to resolve their problems, the company would hire a mediator, the agreement states. If mediation failed, the third and final resolution step would be binding arbitration.
Former Meetup employees said the document was presented to them as something they had to sign in order to keep their jobs. Meetup declined to comment on whether signing the document was required for continued employment...
Pashman told employees they should not worry about signing because the process laid out in the agreement was legally unenforceable, people present at the meeting recalled. Meetup declined to comment on Pashman’s statements.
“He was saying, ‘It’s not enforceable, so just sign it. It’s intended for other people, not you all,’” another former employee said. Employees were later told that they would be terminated without severance if they refused to sign.
WeWork/Meetup's executives and managers will have the opportunity to further explain these things when they're deposed in suits challenging the arb clause.
Pashman's conduct ought to subject him to Bar discipline but that doesn't happen to guys like him.
posted by snuffleupagus at 4:25 AM on February 19, 2018 [18 favorites]