Jibbering About The Last Jedi

March 13, 2018 7:49 PM

Did Admiral Holdo ruin everything by not sharing her plan? Is Rey a Mary Sue? Does Star Wars really hate men now? Did Luke get a raw deal? Is The Last Jedi a good movie or an abomination that killed Star Wars? Audimated Thought tackles these and other common fanboy complaints in a pair of extremely geeky videos. For nerds only. Part I: Part II
posted by ELF Radio (48 comments total)

Haven't seen the movie yet. Could you put the spoilers below the fold, please?
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:04 PM on March 13, 2018 [1 favorite]

Hope it highlights that Luke never mastered Padawan X-Wing Levitation and had to put all his points into Jedi Grumpiness, Astral Projection, Yogic Flying and Lightsaber Carelessness instead to distract from the fact!

(tongue firmly in cheek here, folks!)
posted by I'm always feeling, Blue at 8:09 PM on March 13, 2018

I'd put my nerd bona fides against anyone as far as Star Wars goes, and will say with utter conviction that the broad-stroke decisions they made about the arc of the plot and characters is among the best the franchise has to offer.

Star Wars is the story of a whole galaxy, and the toxic Rick and Morty style redpill obsessives are flipping their shit because Star Wars isn't just turning into a generational soap opera.

Star Wars can be more than the neckbeards seem able to tolerate. Star Wars can be more than a tidy pathetic just-so story that the haters of The Last Jedi seem to want. Star Wars can be more than George Lucas ever imagined.

Star Wars can be all of the potential of that force-sensitive slave kid on Canto Bight, not the tiny story of Obi-Wan Kenobi's long lost grand-nephew. An entire galaxy of stories. The Star Wars galaxy isn't a prescriptivist's playground, it's a backdrop that makes the Marvel Cinematic Universe look paltry, if Kathleen Kennedy would continue to let daring creatives like Rian Johnson keep making challenging (for pop movie culture values of challenging) fare.
posted by tclark at 8:14 PM on March 13, 2018 [19 favorites]

Haven't seen the movie yet. Could you put the spoilers below the fold, please?

I think we're well past the spoiler window. The movie came out 3 months ago. If you fear spoilers this long after a film has been out, you're almost going to have to live in a cave.
posted by tclark at 8:18 PM on March 13, 2018 [9 favorites]

Canto Bight scenes were the point of the whole movie, also. You may not like star wars if you didn't like the canto bight scenes.
posted by eustatic at 8:28 PM on March 13, 2018 [4 favorites]

Thank you. It's been a long day.

After being inundated with complaints about the movie, it was refreshing to see someone actually take the time to defend it. I believe that the Silent Majority loves The Last Jedi, but only whining fanboys get heard on the Internet these days.
posted by ELF Radio at 8:31 PM on March 13, 2018 [4 favorites]

It was released in theaters three months ago, yes; but the home video release was literally today

Duly noted, but I would contend that if you care enough about something that hearing some general plot points (not big reveals) qualifies as spoilers, that is at odds with caring little enough that you'll wait several months for it to be released on home video.
posted by tclark at 8:39 PM on March 13, 2018 [1 favorite]

Or indeed caring little enough that your experience will not be substantially ruined by spoilers. Yes, it'll be affected, but so does seeing it after the zeitgeist moved on.
posted by Merus at 8:52 PM on March 13, 2018

And if all that weren't enough to get upset over, The Last Jedi suffered from Russian Interference, via a bot-driven social media campaign to "Save General Hux".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:54 PM on March 13, 2018 [1 favorite]

Spoiler alert:

One big thing. Kylo unleashes a D-Day's worth of ammo on Luke during the last scene. He does not even bend or get a slight bruise. (He's a Jedi - he can bend a canon shot but if it hits him, he still bleeds). Perhaps cause he's a hologram? Then Kylo, for whom the force is crazy strong and he's like a master, gets out and tries to fight him personally too?

Like he does not get it much earlier that it's a hologram? A delay tactic?

Lucas didn't have a part of any of this new stuff and the criticisms of whether it's "Star Wars" or not can end there, but he wouldn't have let that scene happen.
posted by skepticallypleased at 8:58 PM on March 13, 2018 [1 favorite]

Are dudes still mad Admiral Holdo didn’t run her plan by the men first?
posted by guiseroom at 9:00 PM on March 13, 2018 [16 favorites]

Like he does not get it much earlier that it's a hologram? A delay tactic?

No, because the whole point is that he's blinded by his emotions in that scene.
posted by Kitty Stardust at 9:03 PM on March 13, 2018 [35 favorites]

Like he does not get it much earlier that it's a hologram?

Not really a hologram (in-universe those are very analog-TV-like), but more like a "projection" using the force, which I'm sure was entirely convincing looking. I think Ren was freaked out with the possibility that Luke really could be that powerful.
posted by tclark at 9:04 PM on March 13, 2018 [5 favorites]

The only thing I find both inexcusable and unforgivable is that Fisher, Ford, and Hamill did not get to share one last scene together. Was that too much to ask after 35 damn years? That's a level of tone deafness that should stain a movie executive's career forever.
posted by Beholder at 9:06 PM on March 13, 2018 [5 favorites]

That's a level of tone deafness that should make a movie executive's career forever

Well, as long as we aren’t resorting to hyperbole.

Exactly how would that have happened? Han needed to die in TFA so Kylo could become what he was in TLJ. Making Luke magically appear in TFA would have made little sense. Part of the reason Luke disappeared is because he couldn’t face Han and Leia after what he did to their son.

Leia, Luke, and Han’a roles all fit very nicely within the narrative constructed by Abrams and Johnson. Overriding that for fan service would have been a huge disservice to the films.
posted by dry white toast at 9:20 PM on March 13, 2018 [14 favorites]

But of course, since we live in today, and everybody hates everything at all times...

Had me hooked right there.
posted by rokusan at 9:21 PM on March 13, 2018

Like he does not get it much earlier that it's a hologram? A delay tactic?

Spoiler alert... Maybe a delay tactic of sorts, but it’s bigger than that. With the projection, Luke didn’t face down and defeat the First Order, but what he did was he gave the galaxy the legend of Luke Skywalker once again. That was what was needed, because with how little there was left of the Resistance, winning a battle doesn’t move the needle much. They needed the legend. That’s what would inspire the future of the Resistance. That’s what Luke gave them.
posted by azpenguin at 9:26 PM on March 13, 2018 [4 favorites]

Well, The Last Jedi was the last Star Wars for me. Disappointing. Sad.
(umm what turned me into DT?)
posted by anadem at 9:32 PM on March 13, 2018

more like a "projection" using the force, which I'm sure was entirely convincing looking.

It's even possible that it was precisely because of Kylo's force-sense that the projection was so convincing; between sensing Luke's "presence" and Kylo wanting very much to have that final showdown, he bought it long enough for it to cause the delay that the Resistance needed badly.

Leia, Luke, and Han’s roles all fit very nicely within the narrative constructed by Abrams and Johnson. Overriding that for fan service would have been a huge disservice to the films.

Indeed, especially since TLJ was in no small part about challenging and subverting expectations. Any number of hacks could have written a film based around the idea that at some point you had to have the Core Trio throwing their arms around each other and walking off into the double sunset together, any number of hacks could have, and a bunch of fans took that as a given. It's not "tone deaf" to believe that the films could aspire to more than that.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:33 PM on March 13, 2018 [4 favorites]

It is, indeed, a movie all about subverting expectations: It does it at every level of the narrative, and masterfully at that. I need to go back for a second viewing of both this and rogue one; they were both excellent. (TFA was kinda meh, but was so much better than the prequels that I was overjoyed when it came out.)
posted by kaibutsu at 9:43 PM on March 13, 2018 [1 favorite]

The only thing I find both inexcusable and unforgivable is that Fisher, Ford, and Hamill did not get to share one last scene together.

Much like real life, we rarely get to say goodbye to our loved ones in “ideal” ways.

That’s what makes the scene where Luke gives Leia the dice from the Falcon, and then she leaves them behind, so bittersweetly beautiful. Way more profound and in-character than some awkward, artificial conversation between the trio.
posted by Celsius1414 at 9:46 PM on March 13, 2018 [5 favorites]

The relationships between Luke, Leia and Han are left wide open for a whole lot of comic books, novels, and so on to fill.

I like what this guy has to say but am not the biggest fan of the static cartoon image with voiceover format.
posted by emjaybee at 10:07 PM on March 13, 2018

Metafilter sure did get this early: as of this writing, there are only 77 views for the first video and 30 for the second.

Sequels are always tricky, but it's probably best to get them done within ten years of the original. After that and I think it'd be better to just start a fresh franchise, if only to prevent all the bickering.
posted by cosmic.osmo at 10:18 PM on March 13, 2018 [2 favorites]

I don't think anything above the cut can really be considered a spoiler.
posted by under_petticoat_rule at 11:10 PM on March 13, 2018

That whole thing with the two fleets chasing each other at low speed for like a week, and you can leave the chase, have a weekend in Space Vegas, and come back to your old spot in the chase? That made no sense.
posted by w0mbat at 11:40 PM on March 13, 2018 [7 favorites]

Watched the videos. In their entirety. I feel like they just address a certain kind of criticism TLJ receives from a certain kind of person.

Genuine question: are these really common complaints? Because (1) apart from a few actual video (and audio) excerpts, his example “neckbeard fanboy complaints” are really just him doing a (IMO distasteful) voiceover over video of the alleged “neckbeard” (seems to be the one guy wearing a black shirt lying on a bed, I have no idea who it is?); and (2) I haven’t heard a single person in my social circle complain about Finn being black or Rey being a girl or Rose being Asian or “liberals” and “feminists” as reasons why TLJ sucked.

The consensus among my friends is that TLJ was just... a mediocre movie. Like TFA, stuff happens, then other stuff happens, then yet other stuff happens, and then the movie ends. There are explosions, marketable toys, space / spacecraft battle, hand-to-hand battles, the force theme x10, some nostalgia call backs. Because it was so mediocre, it was hard to suspend disbelief, and the faults of the movies were much harder to overlook.
posted by theony at 12:52 AM on March 14, 2018 [7 favorites]

Ok, Slarty, 2 minute rebuttal:

First, you lost me at The Dark Knight Rises wasn’t the ending to the trilogy that it deserved and I approached all of your subsequent arguments with a very high degree of suspicion.

Second, I honestly had no idea that there were stupid white nerd boys who were critical of the film for the high profile casting of women, and Asians, and African Americans. It’s because I’m so far up inside the west coast liberal bubble that this kind of criticism doesn’t even register. For real, if you are annoyed that an African American and Korean American go on a wild ride together then Star Wars isn’t really for you. It’s one of the literally millions of examples of cultural treasures that you are cut off from by being a racist sexist fuck and I see zero need to respond to that kind of criticism. Yes, Star Wars is political in the sense that, yeah, it’s kind of anti evil. I feel like defending the film against the sexist racist assholes who think it should be 98% (Lando is at least 2% of of the original trilogy’s awesomeness) white dudes is a waste of time. If you can’t deal with the multiculturalism of TLJ then you really should be focused on Steven Segal movies. Star Wars is not for you.

Putting aside his detailed response to the straw men/monkey men, his defense of the Force as “magic” that can do whatever it wants to is problematic. When creating a fantasy reality, you don’t just get to invent things out of nowhere to solve plot problems. That’s lazy and disruptive to the set of fantasy suppositions you’ve made in order to enjoy the film. When Leia rescues herself from the cold vacuum of space, it’s jarring because it is internally really inconsistent. We’ve never really seen Leia as any kind of master of the Force and suddenly she performs some high level Force mastery shit because.... it advances the plot? It’s jarring and comes out of nowhere and it seems too convenient. Similarly, when Luke is struggling and can’t decide what to do with the Jedi order, Yoda just appearing and destroying the tree is a cop out when Luke is agonizing over what to do, WITH
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 1:12 AM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

I enjoyed it for the entertaining sci-fi spectacle it was - I'm an absolute sucker for epic sci-fi space battles. The story line wasn't great, but no worse than anything else pitched as light entertainment.

My gripes tend towards the sort of things angrystaffofficer blogs about occasionally (with tongue firmly in cheek I'm sure) in his dissection of terrible military tactics on display in the films. Which can ultimately be brushed aside with "its just a movie".
posted by phigmov at 1:17 AM on March 14, 2018

I think the "stupid" things in Star Wars are part of its charm and how it sticks in pop culture memory. To draw an analogy, I like games in their initial release where there are ridiculously over-tuned abilities and weird bugs that people would exploit, it made the games very memorable. Afterwards, once they've patched out all the overpowered tactics, and everything is "bench-marked" to death so that no one thing is stronger than another, it gets bland and boring. "Balanced" is not the same as "fun" for a game, and neither is "realistic" the same as "makes a good movie."

(of course, there are fun AND balanced games, but there are also fun and unbalanced games, so balancing / realism really has no bearing on how "good" the product is).

Things like how Han does the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs and how fans try to plausibly justify this absolutely makes Star Wars what it is.

An object the size of an X-Wing traveling at close to lightspeed hitting a planet contains enough kinetic energy to instantly vaporize the entire planet, and the resulting radiation burst would also annihilate all life in the solar system. That's a more lethal weapon than "Star-Killer Base". You can't even defend against that attack with shields, because you can fly the ship through the planetary shield between its refresh cycles as demonstrated by Han Solo, and Holdo demonstrated that you can hit other solid objects despite having departed for hyperspace =P The fact that this implausible thing exists in the universe makes it more exciting and kooky.
posted by xdvesper at 1:24 AM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

his defense of the Force as “magic” that can do whatever it wants to is problematic. When creating a fantasy reality, you don’t just get to invent things out of nowhere to solve plot problems. That’s lazy and disruptive to the set of fantasy suppositions you’ve made in order to enjoy the film.

I would argue that every SW film has introduced a new wrinkle & feature to the Force. Telepathy. Telekinesis. Ability to see the future. Force Lightning. And so on. But because those films are so set in our minds, we don't think about that anymore. Luke goes from untrained kid to Jedi Knight in the course of a session with Obi-Wan and about what, two-three days with Yoda? So why is it so impossible that Leia, who has known about her potential for a few decades by the time that TLJ rolls around, has learned a few tricks, including how to pull something closer to her, like an airlock? If I suggest that Leia moved the ship instead of moving herself (akin to Yoda moving Luke's X-Wing, because size doesn't matter), is that more in keeping with the Force as "established"?

Yoda just appearing and destroying the tree is a cop out when Luke is agonizing over what to do

Yoda's reappearance to Luke happens when it happens because of two reasons:

-first, Luke had cut himself off from the Force, as noted by Rey. Yoda and Obi-Wan haven't been able to reach him for the years of his exile (which has probably been about a decade, not the entirety of the post-ROTJ period, which is a complaint I've seen in other places on the internet).
-secondly, Yoda comes precisely because Luke is agonizing. Luke is agonizing over the wrong thing; the tree doesn't matter. Rey already has what she needs (and note that the texts have been taken by Rey), and Luke is so tied to the past that he can't see what is needed here, now, in the present. Yoda is there to teach him, again, that his focus needs to be on where he is, and what need is present, as opposed to hanging onto all kinds of shit from the past, including his own failures (It's also the most meta scene of a film that is full of meta commentary on fandom; Yoda is telling the audience along with Luke that we need to let go of our "sacred texts" and shibboleths).

For me, I found the film very enjoyable, largely because I was responding to it on what I saw was the comments it was making about the franchise itself - that it cannot be a static thing, full of the expected beats on infinite repeat. After TFA, the internet was full of speculation about who Rey's parents were, because she must be the daughter of someone important - that's how Star Wars works, right? It's about the Skywalkers! TLJ said no, it doesn't have to. TLJ said that the Force belongs to everyone, not just a bloodline. It said that everyone can be a hero, even the maintenance tech (even when the tech is played by an Asian woman, and yes, sadly, that is something that elements of the fandom have had huge problems with. In the age of Nazis on Twitter, how can we be surprised?). It said that being a hero does not depend on who your parents are, nor does it depend on your ability to blow shit up; it said that being a hero depends on your choices. TLJ took the notion of hating something and showed that chasing that hate leads to destruction; and further that the target of all that hate might just brush it off and be unaffected.

It worked for me. It didn't work for everyone. I think that is, in fact, a good thing - because it shows they are willing to take some risks with this franchise, rather than go with the bland, anodyne safe route.

As a final thought - I leave you with How We See Star Wars, Part I and Part II, a look at the audience and critical reactions to the Star Wars films at the time they were released.
posted by nubs at 3:32 AM on March 14, 2018 [11 favorites]

I would never want to take away from the joy and pleasure that TLJ has given to many of its viewers. But could we please stop with the notion that the only people who criticise the movie are regressive neckbeards?

It's possible to find fault with parts of the movie's plot and characterisation without wishing that they only focused on the original trilogy characters or only wanting to see any women or black people do anything. Unfortunately it's impossible to have a proper conversation about this when everyone assumes that if you didn't love the movie, you must be a neckbeard/racist/sexist.
posted by adrianhon at 3:39 AM on March 14, 2018 [5 favorites]

Two things, one, I heard somewhere online that Luke in the "projection" scene at the end of TLJ doesn't leave footprints on the salt-encrusted red desert, because he's not really there. Is that true? I haven't had the opportunity to check but if so it's more evidence to the fact that Kylo Ren was blinded by his rage and totally sucker-punched by the much more powerful Luke (who in addition to refreshing the Skywalker myth also sacrificed himself for the Rebels to live -- his arc is of course Jesus' arc too...)

Two, the Portuguese translation of the film's title was "Os Ultimos Jedis", which is damn spoilery, given that you could translate that back into English as "The Last Jedis" and making it clear that it's not about 1 last knight (i.e. Luke but a whole slew of them, at least two (i.e. Luke and Rey) if not even more (the sorcerer's apprentice at the end, say.))
posted by chavenet at 4:20 AM on March 14, 2018

OK, I have a feeling that I'm traipsing ignorantly into the midst of a raging flame war here, but…

Holdo should have just told Poe what was going on. Or at least she should have told somebody, or even just said "Trust me, I have a plan that does not involve just sitting here and waiting for death but you're going to have to hang tight because there may be a spy among us." Instead she just gives a few platitudes while apparently waiting to be destroyed, thus sparking a mutiny. Why? Because it increases dramatic tension. There's no in-world explanation that makes sense, as far as I can tell.

Also, why did she wait until almost all of the Resistance had been picked off before going on a kamikaze run? Again, dramatic tension. 90% of the Resistance gets killed simply because the director thought it made for a better chase scene.

There were a lot of stupidities like that which had nothing to do with the casting. Those decisions would have seemed just as stupid had Holdo been a muscular, lantern-jawed white male instead of who she was. I was happy to see another woman in a position of power, but the character was then made to do some really dumb stuff for no good reason.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:22 AM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]

Why? Because it increases dramatic tension.

I don't see what's wrong with this? I personally like my fantasy/action movies to be dramatic and fun to watch, even if it's at the expense of "making 100% sense"*.

(I don't agree Holdo should have shared her plans, and even if she should have, it shouldn't have been with Poe. He's not a high ranking officer and he had shown himself to be impulsive and undisciplined since TFA. That was his whole arc at the end with Leia, where you have him mature and change rather than being the same talented wise guy that saves the day that we've seen a million times.)
posted by like_neon at 4:38 AM on March 14, 2018

OPSEC, was my take on Holdo's silence. They were being tracked through light speed jumps which is supposed to be Impossible; most plausible explanation is a traitor aboard broadcasting their location to the baddies, so they had to keep their super secret plan super secret. (And she's right! Because the first thing Poe does when he learns the plan is to blab it over the space radio for the baddies to hear.)

It's been a while, so maybe I'm just retrofitting logic onto a space opera plot that lacked it, but that's how I explained it to myself at least...
posted by ook at 4:38 AM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]

I haven’t heard a single person in my social circle complain about Finn being black or Rey being a girl or Rose being Asian or “liberals” and “feminists” as reasons why TLJ sucked.


Then you've curated your social circle well. I've heard all of these from friends of friends.
posted by Halloween Jack at 4:41 AM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]

Two things, one, I heard somewhere online that Luke in the "projection" scene at the end of TLJ doesn't leave footprints on the salt-encrusted red desert, because he's not really there. Is that true?

Yes. The movie is very careful to show us that everything that moves on the salt flats turns the ground red. Luke does not. Also, his appearance is different - he looks younger, more like he does in the flashbacks to what happened with Ben; he chose a different look designed to provoke Kylo. Third, he is using the blue lightsaber - Anakins original lightsaber - that was destroyed in the standoff between Kylo and Rey. And lastly, he makes no physical contact with anyone. Even the dice fade away at the end.
posted by nubs at 5:22 AM on March 14, 2018 [5 favorites]

Well, I guess I just thought that the tension was spoiled by the sheer implausibility of Holdo's actions. I don't buy the OPSEC explanation; I can see her not wanting to tell Poe what the plan was, but telling nobody? Or even that there was a plan? Not even the people who would be executing it? I probably would have mutineed myself in that situation. But then, I'm always that annoying person who wants to know why he's being told to do something that's patently idiotic. Or at least that there's a reason, even if I'm not allowed to know what it is. I would probably make a really bad soldier.

And why wait until they were down to one lifeboat before pulling her day-saving suicide attack? I mean, very noble and all that, but she let almost everyone get killed for no apparent reason. Surely there are less immersion-breaking ways to have a dramatic chase scene.

I have no problem with Finn's later suicide run being interrupted, though. It's clear that they wanted to subvert that trope where the one black character saves the day with a heroic sacrifice, albeit they went about it pretty ham-handedly. More importantly though, Finn was full of hate at the time—and if there's one thing we know about Star Wars, it's that giving in to your hatred always goes horribly wrong, even if it's for a noble cause. It did seem a little bit like the director was stopping him from doing the only thing that could have given the Resistance a chance of surviving just so that a white guy could parachute in and save the day, but I can forgive it.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:25 AM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

(OK, that's all I've got to say. I don't want to fight about this.)
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:26 AM on March 14, 2018

Where'd you get the idea she told nobody? The pilots of those transports knew. Leia knew. Presumably everyone else who needed to know knew. Poe is the POV character, and as several people pointed out, there's no good reason to tell him.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 5:29 AM on March 14, 2018 [4 favorites]

Like he does not get it much earlier that it's a hologram? A delay tactic? Lucas didn't have a part of any of this new stuff and the criticisms of whether it's "Star Wars" or not can end there, but he wouldn't have let that scene happen.

This would almost make sense if you meant Marcia Lucas but makes not a bit of sense with George. George Lucas would have given us the same scene but with a comical three-headed person-thing doing color and play by play and who, immediately before they shot the bejesus out of Fake Luke, would have solemnly intoned "Ooooh he's in deep poodoo now!"
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:40 AM on March 14, 2018 [6 favorites]

nubs, I just spent the better part of an hour with How We See Star Wars. It's exactly as I remember it, for every movie that came out. Thanks.

And as for Poe, his divulging the escape plan on a radio was exactly what got so many rebels killed off. Leia and Holdo know he's talented, but not all that smart.
posted by Miss Cellania at 5:42 AM on March 14, 2018

Regarding Leia's little flight, I didn't see it at all as inconsistent with the Force. We've seen Vader move multi-ton objects against the force of standard gravity. We've seen Jedi slow their own fall and land safely while dropping from ships. It's entirely consistent with such usage that a Force user could push her own body around in microgravity, it just happens that particular situation had not arisen onscreen before.

And the fact that she was a latent strong Force user was already known. Aside from the "there is another" quip, when Han died, she felt it immediately, which was beyond young Luke's incipient abilities in ANH (remember only Kenobi noticed the "voices" of Alderaan). What I loved about her scene is it gave me the feeling that she had been quietly doing low-key Forcey things for decades, and so when faced with this situation, almost nonchalantly knew what to do.
posted by xigxag at 5:42 AM on March 14, 2018 [2 favorites]

My only beef with the movie so far (I'm streaming it and not all the way through yet) is this weird nitpicky thing that I think there's too many American/Earth cultural references thrown in for a story that's supposed to be taking place in a galaxy far, far away.

I don't recall them being as prevalent in 4-6 or even 1-3.
posted by Gev at 5:42 AM on March 14, 2018

And why wait until they were down to one lifeboat before pulling her day-saving suicide attack?

Yeah, I got nothing. The plot demanded that both sides be decimated by the end of the film, therefore decimated they were. (I had to kind of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ at the kamikaze attack itself, too: if they're so overwhelmingly powerful seems like they'd have happened a lot more often. Even if you try to justify it as requiring, like, a really big expensive ship to pull it off, that still would've been an easy trade for a death star or two...)
posted by ook at 5:44 AM on March 14, 2018 [1 favorite]

Also, why did she wait until almost all of the Resistance had been picked off before going on a kamikaze run?

She... didn't? They start blowing up the cloaked little shuttles they weren't supposed to be able to track and target, she gasps in horror for a moment and then starts flipping levers and whatnot to turn the ship around to go kamikaze.

She didn't go kamikaze right after the shuttles launched because her job was to be a distraction.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:49 AM on March 14, 2018 [3 favorites]

if they're so overwhelmingly powerful seems like they'd have happened a lot more often

[spock] For everything there is a first time. [/spock]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2018

TLJ was terrible and its box office was (relatively) terrible and its legacy will be to slip silently under the waves. In combination with TFA which was almost as bad it is a stunning judgment on Disney’s utter contempt for both audience and shareholders.

As noted above, the worst sin is the two movies collectively took one long dump on the heads of the most iconic and beloved ensemble in the history of cinema (Luke, Han and Leia). Who does that? Every stated artistic or commercial rationale was simply bullshit. If Harrison Ford would contract only for TFA, how could you not write Luke in? How did you let Leia be a bit part in TFA?Let Luke be a loser who spends the third act of TLJ on his ass literally. This is not neckbeard nostalgia — this is the point.

Perhaps Disney deserves some credit for the inclusive casting of the young actors into the utter ciphers of characters they somehow thought we’d rather spend time with than Han, Luke and Leia, but Riddle (who might be a good actress given plausible material, who knows) and Boyega (who has an expresive face and great comic Everyman potential) are done no favors. And inclusiveness can’t excuse the travesty of the white male villains Hux and Snoke about whom I still have no idea who or why they are — such a waste of Gleason and Serkis. Adam Driver was the weakest casting of the lot but at least they tried to give him a story.

And all of this is to say nothing of idiotic and grossly under-rewritten plots. TFA’s space monster dead end with Han, and recycling of blow up the Death Star. The opening scene and entire third act of TLJ which would have gotten you a stern talking-to at the shabbiest of screenwriting workshops in Sherman Oaks. Pretty much any given episode of Star Wars Rebels was tighter.
posted by MattD at 5:51 AM on March 14, 2018