To Hug, or Not to Hug: That is the Question
April 21, 2018 10:55 AM   Subscribe

Everybody seems to be hugging everybody these days: is this okay? Her specific point in this article is the hugging of strangers, especially those met on a blind date.
posted by MovableBookLady (86 comments total) 21 users marked this as a favorite
 
It’s the thing where men I’ve never met before, and am encountering for the first time on a blind internet date, ignore my outstretched hand, and tell me, “I’m a hugger,” before touching my body without my consent, invitation, or desire.

Yes. This infuriates me, makes me uncomfortable and ruins the date. I've taken to messaging dates before we met to say I don't like to hug people until I get to know them. Sometimes they take this to mean that an hour over drinks is enough time and kiss me at the end of the date without asking or signaling and checking my response. Ugh. I'm going to try that "I'm a shaker" thing.
posted by bunderful at 11:01 AM on April 21, 2018 [11 favorites]


So glad I don't go on dates, blind or otherwise.

But yes, I don't want people I've never met before to hug me. I don't want my periodontist (now my former periodontist) to hug me. Or my hairdresser, or my casual acquaintance I see once every 2 years. I would do fine with a lot less hugging.

And I think "I'm so not" is also a good response to "I'm a hugger".
posted by still_wears_a_hat at 11:08 AM on April 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


In general, hugging is a thing for me. I hate it. Unless you are absolutely sure that you have permission to be in my personal space (and if you have to ask, you don't), I don't want you hugging me. And you will know that, because I will flinch. I will tense up. I will go into fight/flight/freeze mode, and while I've never actually gone for fight, I can't guarantee I won't push you away.

I suspect I am not 100% neurotypical, which is complicated by the fact that I pretty much pass as normal. I don't think that, say, my co-workers would guess that hugging me is going to make me want to shove you and run. But I hate it, and I wish that there were rules in place that would dissuade people from hugging casual acquaintances. Interestingly, this isn't really a problem with people I'm actually close to, because they have a better sense of my boundaries.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:13 AM on April 21, 2018 [10 favorites]


the double cheek kiss example is great because it's something that a lot of americans apparently find like, extremely intimate, and of course, when between men of any sexual preferences, Threateningly Gay. but like? hovering your face alongside someone else's and making a smooch sound is like 10 billion times less intimate than having them press the full length of their body against yours for an indeterminate amount of time while clutching you so tightly that to escape their grasp requires an awkward struggle, which is of course the only way men with no boundaries hug women.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:15 AM on April 21, 2018 [33 favorites]




Never inflict a hug, always offer a hug.
posted by Sphinx at 11:21 AM on April 21, 2018 [22 favorites]


I took this class -- like a 4 day intensive art thing -- and the teacher comes in and is introducing herself to everyone and HUGGING everyone. And I said nope, I am not a hugger, do not hug me, and she didn't, but also it was apparently the first time she ever had anyone say that? What is it with people who like hugging complete strangers?
posted by jeather at 11:22 AM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


When I go for a hug on someone who I'm not already super close to I kinda start with almost an open-armed shrug, as if to say, "Hey, I've got a hug here for you if you want it but I'm not about to come any closer until I get a signal." It's easy to tell from someone's body language if they want the hug or not; when they see me get ready for a hug they'll either open up or close off right away. If they close off, no big deal—just drop my arms and continue the interaction sans-hug.

Hugging people who don't want it is not OK. I am not a good reader of people and body language at all but even to me it's very easy to tell if someone wants a hug or not. I can imagine that maybe some people who are on the autism spectrum might have a genuine problem telling the difference, but outside of that I feel like there's not really much of an excuse for giving someone an unwanted hug.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 11:23 AM on April 21, 2018 [7 favorites]


at the ashram where i did yoga for ages, every teacher at the end of the opening greeting would ask if anyone didn't want to be touched for pose correction. everyone still had their eyes closed so no one else would see you raise your hand and judge you as a weird freak who hated touching or whatever, and it was the best fucking thing.
posted by poffin boffin at 11:30 AM on April 21, 2018 [41 favorites]


FIFY:

 Not Eeveryone needs a hug.
^
posted by glonous keming at 11:31 AM on April 21, 2018 [16 favorites]


Previously. Interesting to see how the tide has been turning against gratuitous hugs over the past few years.
posted by Brain Sturgeon at 11:32 AM on April 21, 2018


Well, good -- it's about time. I cannot stand the hugging thing. Shake my damn hand or nod if you must, but do not hug me.
posted by holborne at 11:37 AM on April 21, 2018 [5 favorites]


I like hugging and being hugged, generally, but I do not like hugging people who don't want to be hugged. And even once a hug is in progress I will only hug as tightly as my co-hugger, which sometimes means it is the awkward bent-forward no-contact type hug. The point is it should be a mutual event and not something forced upon anyone.

I have known predatory huggers and boy howdy is that just the tip of the iceberg with those people.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:42 AM on April 21, 2018 [15 favorites]


As a man who dates men and has been internet dating since before it was socially acceptable, I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've been hugged at the start of a blind internet date. At the end, sure, if the date went well.

I don't shake hands--that seems odd to me. That's how I greet my doctor. I prefer no physical contact at all until we're both on the same page that it's desired.
posted by Automocar at 12:00 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


I hate shaking hands because I have hyperhidrosis. But I'm not from a family of huggers so I'm not entirely comfortable with that as a greeting either. What do you do if you can't deflect a hug with a handshake?
posted by elsietheeel at 12:01 PM on April 21, 2018


I don't like strangers pressing any parts of their bodies up against mine. I save my (semi-voluntary) hugs for children, close relatives, lovers, and very old friends. I shake hands only when I can't get out of it -- "Here is my hand! Grasp it, damn you!" -- and then I make a point of washing my hands soon after.
posted by pracowity at 12:08 PM on April 21, 2018


I love getting hugs, I love giving hugs, and I'm fat so I'm squishy and everyone likes to compliment me on my hugs. But also, it takes 2 seconds upon meeting someone to go "do you hug?" And if the answer is no, which is has been and will be, I just immediately go "no problem", with a big smile and raise my hand for a high-5. Not enough time for an awkward pause or anything. I have yet to meet someone who does not like my strategy.


I have known predatory huggers and boy howdy is that just the tip of the iceberg with those people.
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:42 PM on April 21

Ugh, yes. It's weirdly validating to hear someone acknowledge that hugging can be predatory. I've had developed breasts since I was in hmmm maybe 5th grade, and I cannot tell you how many times I've been forced (physically or by cajoling) by grown men (or boys my age) to give hugs. And if we're being honest, I've always flt a bit of shame about feeling so violated over a hug.
posted by FirstMateKate at 12:09 PM on April 21, 2018 [28 favorites]


I hate shaking hands because I have hyperhidrosis. But I'm not from a family of huggers so I'm not entirely comfortable with that as a greeting either. What do you do if you can't deflect a hug with a handshake?

Fistbump.
posted by leotrotsky at 12:15 PM on April 21, 2018 [9 favorites]


I'm not a hugger except for a few special people in my life. I prefer handshakes European style, a firm up and down once and let go. I can't recall when this hugging business became common, but it wasn't so when I was younger, so maybe the 80s?
posted by MovableBookLady at 12:18 PM on April 21, 2018


I actually have never forgiven my mother-in-law for our first meeting; it was in Logan Airport, when I was going to visit my then-boyfriend and he introduced me to his mother. I put out my hand, and she literally brushed it aside and grabbed me in a hug. (My father-in-law shook my hand.) I was not pleased, and to this day, more than 15 years later, I'm still wary of being around her.
posted by holborne at 12:22 PM on April 21, 2018 [6 favorites]


This article really hit a nerve for me. When I moved to Chicago from NY and started to meet people, man everybody hugged. I just met you and you're already hugging me? I had never hugged anyone in my life. My family doesn't hug. The annoying thing was that since I was constantly surprised and a little unnerved by suddenly hugs coming at me, it then became a thing. Oh, bleep doesn't hug. I don't hug. Keep your distance. "I'm a hugger!" and now the hug is on its way, and must be endured. It kind of made me feel bad because like, hugs are nice! It would have been better if I could have gotten used to hug culture on my own instead of it being this thing that I always had to declare to set myself out as different from everyone else but then suffer through anyway.

Another funny thing I noticed was that since my family didn't hug, and I had moved away to a place where people hug, we kind of had this weird thing of "I guess we're family so we're supposed to hug" awkward hugging moments for the first few years when I would come back for a visit. But now we're back to "We don't hug", the way it's supposed to be. Relatedly any time strangers take our picture at tourist places they always say, every single time, "Stand closer together! Act like you know each other!"
posted by bleep at 12:47 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


Fistbump.

Might work. An ex of mine met Lori Petty at a con and she wouldn't shake hands but gave fistbumps instead because germs.
posted by elsietheeel at 12:53 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


Here's my most unexpected hug story: This was when I was in my mid-teens. I was sitting in the back seat of a car with a new friend. His sister, maybe a decade older, was driving. I didn't know her at all, she was just visiting town and giving us a ride somewhere. Suddenly, there was a smash, and the car came to a screeching stop. He had either hit, or been by, another car. I looked up as my friend's sister jumped out of the car heading to the other driver, a woman, who had jumped out of her car at the same time. They embraced, and my friend's sister began to cry. They held each other for some time. "My god," I thought, "What are the odds-- she got into an accident with someone she knew!" We got out of the car. My friend had a puzzled look on his face. It turned out the two women had never met.

I think about this experience often, usually when I hear about another "road rage" incident, usually between two men that ends in violence, and how things could be so different.
posted by gwint at 1:02 PM on April 21, 2018 [24 favorites]


I'm sure you are a nice person, but unless you are a member of my family, we don't need to hug.
posted by freakazoid at 1:04 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


I would love if people got verbal consent before doing any voluntary touching of any kind that is not an emergency situation. Speaking as someone who is totally a hugger (who asks for consent first!) and is married to a guy who panics at even a friendly momentary shoulder touch.
posted by shalom at 1:09 PM on April 21, 2018 [5 favorites]


FFS, this is where Metafilter starts grinding my gears. Multiculturalism anyone? Maybe YOU are the touchy one with an issue?

"No one touch me without permission!" Sounds legit. Maybe not.

I grew up in Chicago, Scandinavian American roots. No kissing, hardly any hugging, even mom and dad. In the mid 90s I moved to Miami Beach. Where I met tons of people from South America, the Caribbean, etc. I would get hugs and KISSES (cheek) from people I was just meeting through someone else! It freaked me out! I'm a cis het guy, and some of these South American huggers/kissers were very attractive women, and it still freaked me out! Not in a "Ew cooties!" way, but in a "I can't do this, how do I respond?" kind of way. I met some people who would sort of hold my head while they told me good night. Purely friendly, non sexual. I'm still friends with a bunch of these people. FFS, my best friend's mom is from Peru and the times I do see her I am showered with more touching and hugs than anyone in my own family ever gave me.

I eventually got used to this and now back in Chicago, I find it weird how distant and non-touchy people--- even friends and family--- can be.

So, tell your dates to back off, don't touch, whatever. Just don't make it into some #Movement where touchy people are #AutomaticProblematic.

Because there's different cultures, different people and people are all different. It doesn't mean they're all on the same agenda.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:15 PM on April 21, 2018 [28 favorites]


Just don't make it into some #Movement where touchy people are #AutomaticProblematic.

Except for the fact that they are. They're the ones moving in on my space and forcing me into physical contact I don't want, not the other way around. Sorry, but I don't have to respect the multicultural concerns of someone who means to engage in full body contact with me against my wishes, especially when I've made those wishes clear by putting my hand out and not opening my arms for a hug.
posted by holborne at 1:22 PM on April 21, 2018 [25 favorites]


Gotta say, jeff-o-matic, what grinds my gears on Metafilter is when people write up a lengthy complaint without actually reading the article.
posted by haruspicina at 1:23 PM on April 21, 2018 [16 favorites]


"No one touch me without permission!" Sounds legit. Maybe not.

Um, no. It is totally legit, full stop.
posted by holborne at 1:23 PM on April 21, 2018 [25 favorites]


My awkward interactions of kisses and hugs from women AND men from other parts of the world happened in the USA, JFTR. I realize the author goes out of the way to mention interactions in different countries.

My brother in la,w of hispanic origin STILL kisses me when I see him, and I still find it weird. People do things, different tribes of people find some things other tribes do to be confusing or scary. That's my point.
posted by jeff-o-matic at 1:36 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


Not everyone has the same boundaries.

But like do you get that a ton of people in this thread are saying- "yes! this is my boundary and everyone rides over it!" SO like clearly a LOT of people have this boundary and are not having this met dude. I'm autistic- IF someone touches me without my permission I freeze. A hug? I might burst into tears. Have in the past. Don't invoke multiculturalism to defend bad behavior.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 1:37 PM on April 21, 2018 [12 favorites]


If you don't want to shake hands, a cheerful little wave works. I work with some women who don't shake hands with men they aren't related to (religious reasons, it's nothing personal) and they don't fistbump either.

It's not always obvious who has this preference, so the cheerful wave is also helpful because it uses the same hand-- you can go in for a handshake, realize your mistake, and then give the little wave and save everyone the hassle.
posted by blnkfrnk at 1:37 PM on April 21, 2018 [4 favorites]


You’re missing the point, jeff-o-matic. “Not having the same boundaries” is fine, but doesn’t mean they have no obligation to respect other people’s boundaries. If people are fine being hugged, that’s great, god bless them, they should hug away and be happy. But that has precisely zero to do with what they’re allowed to impose on other people.
posted by holborne at 1:37 PM on April 21, 2018 [14 favorites]


A hug perpetrated without my enthusiastic consent genuinely feels to me like embracing slimy electrified barbed wire. A desired hug feels like French pastry and down blankets. This article is my truth.
posted by TheGoldenOne at 1:40 PM on April 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


But simply assuming everyone needs to abide by the contact-social laws you agree with or grew up with is naive and dare I say... anti-multi-cultural.

The great thing about personal boundaries is that they're personal. (which is to say, no one is asking you to tell other people to treat you the way someone else wants to be treated.)
posted by FirstMateKate at 1:40 PM on April 21, 2018 [6 favorites]


We should just all bow, it's easier.

🙇
posted by FJT at 1:43 PM on April 21, 2018 [9 favorites]


Mod note: Couple of comments deleted. jeff-o-matic, don't edit for content, and don't make this about you.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 1:43 PM on April 21, 2018 [6 favorites]


I can't remember being hugged by a person I didn't know.

With the exception of three times when I've been shopping, looking intently at something on a shelf with people passing behind me, felt something on my leg, and glanced down to see that some little kid has wrapped one arm around my leg and is just standing there.

The first time, she recognized her mistake almost immediately and ran off, but for both of the others I had to wait several seconds for a parent to show up, and when they did, their expressions of mingled alarm, concern, and apology were absolutely delectable. I managed to keep from laughing too hard at the time, but I chuckle every time I think of them now.
posted by jamjam at 1:50 PM on April 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


Used to be a hugger; gave it up because it made other people unhappy. Hugging people can be trained out of their behavior! But it is an educational process full of one embarrassment after another.
posted by datawrangler at 1:52 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


the correct way to say "I'm a hugger" is to instead ask "are you a hugger?"

It's very simple
posted by ook at 1:59 PM on April 21, 2018 [12 favorites]


my best unwanted contact incident was when me and an obnoxious male fuckbuddy were stumbling across avenue b down by robots, extremely high, and i took his hand; he was like UGH I DON'T WANT TO HOLD HAAAANDS, WE'RE NOT DATING and stomped off ahead of me into the street and got plowed the fuck down by the bike messenger i was pulling him away from, with my icky girl hand.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:01 PM on April 21, 2018 [92 favorites]


Where have you gone, Leo Buscaglia? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
posted by lagomorphius at 2:03 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


I wish you had footage of that one, poffin boffin.

I have grimly accepted that some of the (very-female-dominated) subcultures I spend in have a lower threshold for hugging than I do and adapted to it, but, Lord, I can't take it from strangers. That goes triple for men. I've never hugged on a first date and it's hard to imagine I ever will.
posted by praemunire at 2:09 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


The multiculturalism point is very clearly addressed in the article:

When I traveled in Peru in the mid-aughts, it was customary there to greet strangers of all genders with a kiss on both cheeks. Would I insult these strangers in their homeland by recoiling from this customary touch? I would not. I did not. In France, they kiss on both cheeks, too. But this is neither Europe nor Peru. There is no single accepted custom of greeting that pervades the entire culture. Though if there were one, it would be the handshake, not the hug.

More importantly, in these interactions, I make my preference clear. I show these men how I want to greet them, and be greeted in return
.
posted by Aravis76 at 2:13 PM on April 21, 2018 [4 favorites]


I've had someone from a Scandinavian country think that she could hug me when I reached out for a handshake (and that she thought I was a lesbian does not excuse this; she didn't pull it with my friend who was also a complete stranger to her).

Another het woman thought she could pat me in the Fisherman's wharf Ghirardelli's when I was making it clear by my body language that I didn't want to engage with her. When I told her" don't touch me" she got in my face a few minutes later with a smarmy"you have a nice day'.

The husband of a family friend( the only other time I'd seen him had been at a party 20 years ago) wrapped both his hands around mine and oozed "bye pretty" when I reached out for a handshake.

I have observed that my cousin's stepdaughter who I don't know well doesn't like crowds so when I said goodbye to her after a museum visit I asked whether she'd prefer a hug or a handshake . She let me know either was ok.

sesame street came up with a suggestion for kids who don't like to be touched but still want to engage.
posted by brujita at 2:14 PM on April 21, 2018 [4 favorites]


I just do fingerpistols at people and make a click-click noise with my mouth
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:24 PM on April 21, 2018 [19 favorites]


My neighbor, who is otherwise a great guy,
is a "bro hugger" which is that "starts as a handshake which is then pulled in for a chest bump" kinda deal.

I've been attempting to transition him to the fist bump, which is much harder to convert to an awkward situation.

Success has been limited, but he's so sincere about his greetings, it's hard to take offense.
posted by madajb at 2:53 PM on April 21, 2018


I love to give hugs.

I always ask permission from someone I haven't hugged before. And even people I have, just to make sure sometimes.

Is it that fucking hard to ask if a hug is ok? The answer: No, it is not. Ask, and if a hug is declined, do not hug. Done.
posted by SansPoint at 2:55 PM on April 21, 2018 [5 favorites]


Because there's different cultures

yes, that is the point, if you care to hear it. in an imaginary culture where everyone nonsexually hugs and kisses everyone else indiscriminately, you may hate it, and you may even be harmed by it, but you aren't targeted by it. you can't be.

meanwhile, in every part of the U.S. including the parts you named, including the parts where homophobia is not significantly at play, everyone still does not nonsexually hug and kiss everyone else equally and indiscriminately. some people do it to lovers, some people do it to friends and family, some people do it to friends and family and members of their cultural community, and some people do it to people they want an excuse to touch without giving them an acceptable reason to say no.

and in communities where there is no universal consensus on the propriety of platonic but physically intimate gestures, which is all of the U.S but especially the "cold" parts, everyone does it to women more than men. whether they want to sleep with women generally or one specific woman personally or not. even many women who will get on board with complaining about strange men expecting hugs, who would never offer a hug to a man for fear of it being misunderstood, will still come at other women with their arms out and never have it enter their heads they're asking a question to which someone might say No. because when women are as a class not considered sexually threatening or potentially violent, we are considered to be safe for touching and free for gratifying our touchy impulses on. even/especially nonsexually, even/especially by each other. because it's harder to imagine you yourself might be imposing on another woman physically than to recognize when someone else does it to you.

so yes, there are different cultures. understandings of personal space vary. understandings of what you should ask permission for vary. but in every culture where you have a choice about how much physical affection to show and who to show it to -- which doesn't mean just cold repressed northern anglophones; whatever the norm is, in most cultures there's some room to move within its borders -- you can express your handsiness with intent. and if you are so privileged or so sheltered that in miami as in chicago, the only intent you perceived through all that touching was a friendly and respectful one, congratulations to you and your charmed life but you do not know what you're talking about with regard to different cultures. gender is also culture.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:07 PM on April 21, 2018 [14 favorites]


For those who are doing fist bumps please me mindful of any rings you are wearing and how they my bloody my knuckles :)
posted by raccoon409 at 3:19 PM on April 21, 2018


I just do fingerpistols at people and make a click-click noise with my mouth
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 6:24 AM on April 22 [4 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

How to prevent hugs forever.
posted by saysthis at 3:30 PM on April 21, 2018


I actually love hugging - people I know and am comfortable with. I don't have to even be best friends with them, just have a basic sense that they're an okay person to be around and that they too want a hug and we pretty much like each other. (I try to remember which of my friends are anti-hug and and in general just not hug anyone whose body language is not "YES! LET'S BRING IT IN!")

It's when I'm on a date with someone I've never met before, and their very first act is to ignore my signals and my boundaries, that I get freaked out and subsequently pissed off.
posted by bunderful at 3:34 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


I'm definitely a hugger (a respectful one, I promise!) but boy-howdy, can male entitlement ruin hugging. I once had a roommate who was the type of "poly" guy who gives polyamory a bad name by being generally sleazy and gross to every woman he met. Anyway, when I moved out we had a "family dinner" at which he informed me that I "hugged wrong" because I didn't let the entire front of my body mash up against the entire front of his body. So uptight, amirite?

Anyway, long story short that was the end of my long string of living in shared housing. I moved into a 275 sq foot studio and never had to avoid hugging that guy again.
posted by lunasol at 4:16 PM on April 21, 2018 [10 favorites]


I’m not a huge fan of the hug-as-greeting. What’s actually worse for me however is not knowing what is expected or appropriate. This is a huge chunk of my social anxieties. If some regulatory body issued a general memorandum declaring hugging to be the National Greeting I’d be more fine with that than the staus quo. Handshake? How firm? Hug? Air kiss? Awkward waist height ironic mini wave? I always guess wrong. I never initiated goodbye hugs with my in laws which would be TOTALLY APPROPRIATE as I’ve been married for 11 years and have a very warm relationship with them. I’m worried now that if I start they’ll think I’m terminally ill or something.
TL;DR I hate social interaction
posted by q*ben at 4:35 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


When someone hugs me unexpectedly I assume they want to wrestle. It can get awkward. I do remember tho back in my raving days we used hug strangers hello and it was totally normal. That was before I trained tho.

Surprised no one mentioned that Seinfeld episode yet. No wait I'm not, we're too good for Seinfeld around here lol. I forget things sometimes. Could be the head injuries. but i digress.
posted by some loser at 4:35 PM on April 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


I have learned to hug. It's extremely prevalent in my profession, among my peers, but also among the young readers who make up our audience. What I find interesting, however, is that most of the kids will ask if they can have a hug, but the adults just presume it on greeting.

I hate being touched, and I sometimes find it triggering. But I have made myself learn to do it because the kids need the hugs, and the grown ups, so far, appear unteachable in a culture of Be Kind OMG BE KIND YOU GUYS.
posted by headspace at 5:10 PM on April 21, 2018


Even close male friends I considered woke feminists suggested that agreeing to an internet date carried with it some kind of “implied consent,” though to what, specifically, they couldn’t name.

Grrr, I've had th3 90s version of this take, too, during my 20s from men I knew when I recounted such dates. They are no longer my friends. And in my 30s, when a man would try the hugger stuff, my response would be to step back, do the Joan Holloway eyeroll, and with a half-chuckle, say, "Nah. I don't know you!" 9 times out of 10, those huggers wanted insta-booty, and well, "Nah. I don't know you." And they were short dates. Fine by me! Less time wasted!

And especially because I'm a non-white woman, the underlying assumption is that I'm going to be physically demonstrative from the get-go, and no. I've joked with my friends that I come from the WASP-iest poor black family in America, when it comes to emotional expression. We'd fit right in with the Cabots and the Lodges on that score. Sheesh, I had to learn how to hug my friends in NYC in my 20s, and some guy I've never met before thinks he's gonna test for "readiness" on me? Nah. I don't know you.
posted by droplet at 5:30 PM on April 21, 2018 [5 favorites]


Obviously my context is different from hers, but yeah, this has been a thing for a couple of decades at least.

I have never been a hugger, and am not that fond of handshakes (nothing to do with germs), but tried to go along. I didn't know for a long time that I was so bad at faking it and so obviously uncomfortable that friends of mine were secretly telling new people I met to come up and hug me right away just because they got a kick out of seeing me squirm.

I mostly got over it though. I'm much more comfortable with it now. But I don't understand it being a default greeting.
posted by bongo_x at 6:05 PM on April 21, 2018


Oh I am so struggling with this because... I'm a square dance caller. There is an informal square dance call, "yellow rock", which means "hug the designated dancer" (usually your corner).

I mostly dance with gay square dance clubs, where this call is seldom used, but the end of a "tip" (10-15 minutes or so of square dancing) has, in that culture, hugs all around. On the other hand, it's easy to decline a hug, give a hand or whatever.

I call for a straight square dance club. They end the tip with handshakes, but want me to teach and call "yellow rock" to new dancers, and holler at me if I don't call it often enough.

I have a new batch of dancers right now. I'm trying to figure out how to change the culture, and teach the call (because people will run into it) in a way that allows for consent. I'm working on this.
posted by straw at 6:28 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


> I'm sure you are a nice person, but unless you are a member of my family, we don't need to hug

I recently met my stepbrother for the first time, and at his front door found myself saying "What do we do? Do we hug? I think we hug?" (yes, out loud) and then went in for a hug despite the fact that he was clearly holding out a hand for a handshake and I was holding a trifle bowl.
posted by The corpse in the library at 6:40 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


I went on a couple first dates a few years ago and both guys hugged me and kissed me on the lips at the end of the date. Both times I was so stunned I just stood there and let it happen. Both times I had already decided I didn't want a second date so I'm sure nothing in my body language said I was open to this. I was so put off by this that I haven't been on another date since.
posted by twilightlost at 7:34 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


I miss touching so much, I am a toucher, a hugger, a shoulder patter, a head on the shoulder putter, i hold hands and i just adore touching people, regardless of gender. But, I know consent, and so I say, do you hug, and when they don't, i put a little note in my mental file of that person, and we figure some other way of greeting.

I do think we are touch starved culture.
posted by PinkMoose at 7:56 PM on April 21, 2018 [5 favorites]


Ugh, hugging was such a thing for girls/young women. I remember years where every interaction with a near-stranger of a similar age would end with the requisite hug. A lot of people do this naturally, and never think twice about it. But I'm not a natural hugger, so it was always hilarious when I'd meet another hug-averse person and we'd grimly sidle up to each other, heads angled away, to offer the perfunctory shoulder-touch/back pat. Life improved a lot when I realized I could just smile and wave.

I pro-actively offer my hand to men, or clap the elbow/upper arm for more casual interactions. The handshake guys seem amused, sometimes, but most roll with it. If a man ignores my wishes to force a hug, he is demoted to the chilly-smile-and-wave-goodbye.
posted by grandiloquiet at 7:59 PM on April 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


also ironically, being dyspraxic, hugs are actually easier for me to do, then high fives or finger guns, or even handschakes...thoguh growing up mormon, i have a good handshake.
posted by PinkMoose at 8:06 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


Wow, what a variety of comments! This isn't a double-kiss forum, obviously.

My father and I, with a few exceptions, would shake hands. Weird, looking back on it, but we were a WASP family, and hugs were not a thing. I don't know if this has changed; this was a long time ago.

I've been in so many thousands of circumstances where hugs were expected, that I have learned to enjoy hugging enormously. However, I have learned to read body language, somewhat. (I am better at body language than at speaking French, anyway.) Expecting hugs on a first date is a little weird, reading about it. At that point, hugs sound a little intimate to me. For many, though, hugs are like handshakes. But if someone sticks out their hand, that is a pretty clear indication of one's preferred method of meeting!
posted by kozad at 8:18 PM on April 21, 2018


Even at funerals of close family members, I can't remember another point where someone did the "I'm a hugger" thing in a way that insisted on full frontal torso-to-torso contact. This isn't just a thing where some people hug. This is a thing where the social taboo against saying no to hugs because they're "just hugs" is being exploited for the purpose of something that is in effect groping. I don't enjoy hugs with people I'm not super close to generally and I think that consent is a huge issue there, but this is a different thing. This is "we went out so now you have to let me feel your breasts at least through clothing" that gets defended by people who just don't want people to say no to the normal kind of hugs.
posted by Sequence at 8:33 PM on April 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


I love hugs and high-fives and basically human physical contact in general because I am unpartnered (by choice, but man the skin hunger thing sucks), but I never want to make anyone uncomfortable. Since I hail from Ask Culture, I just say, "Are you a hug person, a handshake person, or a no-physical-contact person?" Mostly I get affirmatives and hugs, sometimes I've gotten a wide-eyed "No physical contact, and thank you for asking!" I feel for those people; if I didn't like hugs, I'm sure being hugged against my will would suck really badly.

(I'm also really hyper-aware of it because I work one-on-one with teens who sometimes need hugs, but I have to be extremely careful about offering them. I always make sure to ask them in front of their parents if it's all right if I put a hand on their shoulder, or high-five them or whatever.)
posted by tzikeh at 10:19 PM on April 21, 2018 [8 favorites]


I work for a Swedish company and it took me quite a few years to get used to being hugged literally all the time. It’s not personally targeted, so I tolerate it. If a first-date guy tried to hug me, I’d probably clock him.
posted by frumiousb at 10:26 PM on April 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


I like hugs. But... I don’t touch people without knowing for sure they’re OK with it. I don’t pat people on the back, I wait until the handshake is offered, and I certainly don’t hug someone that I’m not sure is good with it. If I accidentally bump into someone, especially if I touch them with my hand on accident (like when trying to maneuver in tight quarters) I’m mortified and I apologize profusely. I may like hugs, but I do my utmost to respect people’s personal space and I do expect the same in return. Weird, huh.
posted by azpenguin at 11:44 PM on April 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


I have never been a hugger although I lived among them. No handshaking either. In my teens, I began bowing when meeting people. Most people went along with it and didn't touch me. However, I have worked for decades at a co-op where many people are big huggers.

One year, I made it my New Year resolution to become comfortable with receiving hugs graciously and learning to hug people who like to be hugged. During that year, I consciously desensitived myself.

I've been in a wheelchair for several years now, so only the dedicated huggers try to hug me. I put up with it pretty good and even hug a select few spontaneously. In other new learned behavior, I also high five now and shake hands. Old dog learns new tricks!
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:08 AM on April 22, 2018 [3 favorites]


Oh cool, I really never thought to include "wave". I've asked "hug, handshake, no physical contact?" but I feel like the "no physical contact" option there is a bit marked -- it's a negative descriptor, sitting with a group of familiar names for positive social actions -- so I worry if it comes across to people as a little push away from it. But "wave" slots right in as another familiar positive social action.

More often I do the "embryonic hug arms" and question face because it's low-key, but words would probably be a good habit. I've told myself that if somebody doesn't pick up that gesture easily, it's fine, worst case we miss on a possible hug. But I didn't think of all the failure modes, like if some people pick it up as more pressure than I intend.
posted by away for regrooving at 3:06 AM on April 22, 2018


I let the other person decide what to do because I can go either way.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:22 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


I like hugs, and like touch in general, and I am pretty willing to hug most people, even people I've just met. I also do a lot of partner dancing, which often includes having a lot of physical contact with people I don't know or don't know well (after ASKING them if they WANT to dance, of course!) so I'm probably way more comfortable touching strangers than is the norm.

But if I don't already know if people want to hug or not, I either ask outright or use their (usually very clear) body language to gauge it. I make extra sure to ask kids verbally if they want a hug because I want to reinforce the idea that they have agency over their bodies. It's not hard to ask! People who use social pressure as an excuse to ignore consent and foist unwanted physical contact on someone are being creeps.
posted by aka burlap at 8:19 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


And if the answer is no, which is has been and will be, I just immediately go "no problem", with a big smile and raise my hand for a high-5.

Ew. I grew up before the high five became generally popular and I have always felt awkward doing it, like I'm pretending to be hip.

But a fist bump is OK. It's shared, momentary, casual, minimal physical contact. It's the handshake with minimal hand and no shake.
posted by pracowity at 9:30 AM on April 22, 2018 [2 favorites]


I’m an axe throwing coach and I had two members of a group hug me after a session the other night. For a second, I wondered if that was strange or inappropriate. They were kind of cute.
posted by battleshipkropotkin at 10:18 AM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


I’m an axe throwing coach

hands down my favourite mefi things are the random little personal details people reveal as an aside in discussions of completely other topics

posted by poffin boffin at 11:08 AM on April 22, 2018 [22 favorites]


Pracowity was it really necessary to go 'ew' at me? This thread would be much more pleasant if everyone could agree doing your own thing is a great idea and other people doing their own thing is also a great idea.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:36 AM on April 22, 2018 [5 favorites]


Metafilter: growing up mormon, i have a good handshake
posted by el io at 1:46 PM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm a go-with-the-flow guy that will hug when that's whats going on, generally initiated by someone whose 'a hugger', but I never pondered how some folks will be 'huggers' and not get the clue that not everyone wants that. There are some good friends that I will go in for a hug if I haven't seen them for a long time, but generally not so much.

I have a good friend that's a big firm handshake guy as a very warm greeting, but if he's feeling under the weather, or if you are, will initiate or respond to a fist bump with similar warmth (which in retrospect is pretty impressive to be able to do a warm fistbump).

I've been super confused by other cultures though, particular cheek kissing (one, sometimes two, depends on how well you know them, etc, etc); living in Europe for awhile really made me aware how physical affection differs culture to culture. Initially I thought I lived in a town that had a *lot* of lesbians, then I realized that women just hold hands when hanging out in that city together.

Regarding dating, I think people in the US have been socialized poorly in regards to physical affection; some folks seem to have the idea that they should see how far they can push things... That needs to change.
posted by el io at 1:53 PM on April 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


But is it ok to hug people who have been left out overnight?
posted by turbid dahlia at 9:11 PM on April 22, 2018 [5 favorites]


Pracowity was it really necessary to go 'ew' at me?

That was an 'ew' at the thought of slapping sweaty palms together.
posted by pracowity at 12:51 AM on April 23, 2018


But is it ok to hug people who have been left out overnight?

Inside the penis beaker or outside?

On-topic, I like consensual hugs from friends; any surprise touch from a stranger makes me feel like ants are crawling around the affected location for several minutes and it's so gross and I hate it.

Also, my sister (a hugger) loves to tell the story of when her husband (another hugger) went in for a hello embrace on our father in the first weeks of their engagement, and Dad pushed him away, saying "I have hugged you more than I have hugged any man in my entire life." They have not hugged since.
posted by taquito sunrise at 1:37 AM on April 23, 2018 [4 favorites]


The worst ones are the facehuggers.
posted by pracowity at 2:07 AM on April 23, 2018 [7 favorites]


Weird. I'm totally a hugger, but I cannot imagine diving into a hug with a stranger who I had just met for the first time. That's what handshakes are for. Also, there are arm-hugs for greetings, versus full hugs for providing comfort/gratitude/strong affection. The second is a form of intimacy and requires more explicit consent.

It's been a long time since I've dated, when did consent-pushing men figure out to co-opt "being a hugger"?

I don't know whether it is a function of my age (44) or upbringing (middle-class, suburban, white) but being an enthusiastic hugger was most definitely coded feminine when I was growing up. Adult (or young adult) men generally considered hugging to be fussy.

I'm a person who craves touch, and as a young teenager was grateful to fall in with theater people, where hugging was embraced (ha!) enthusiastically as non-sexualized and non-gendered behavior.
posted by desuetude at 8:25 AM on April 23, 2018


I have a short list of people that I am happy to hug all the time (my mother, my youngest sister, my best friend) and a slightly longer list of people that I will hug if they initiate (other family members mostly). Everyone else, absolutely not.

Last week, we had a get-together at my youngest sister's place where she was trying on wedding dresses and her future mother-in-law was also there. This was the first time I had met this woman. She hugged my two sisters and my mom and then got to me. I stuck my hand out for a handshake and momentarily thought she understood but she just used it to pull me in for a hug.

She seems like a perfectly nice lady and hell, she's not going to be my mother-in-law so I don't have to like her but jesus, what a way to set a relationship off on the wrong foot. I'm still a little weirded out by it.
posted by darchildre at 10:52 AM on April 23, 2018


The answer is patriarchy. Or a new word we made up for one of the most insidious and far-reaching projects on patriarchy’s long list of dubious achievements — its ability to make women doubt the sanctity of our own bodies and their boundaries, the existence of our own desire, will, and pleasure, and to subsume our own bodies, desire, will, and pleasure completely to men’s bodies, desire, will, and pleasure, until we define our own desire, will, and pleasure as synonymous with those of men and we accept men’s intrusions upon our bodies as normal, and any feelings of discomfort, shame, violation, or simple displeasure we experience as our own problem and failure. The word for this insidious and pervasive and violent and disorienting process is “rape culture.”

I recently read a book written in the 80s, the last of a series of five, that was so uniquely a first person description of rape culture and various forms of sexism that it has made me hurt ever since. It haunts me, the way in which this author ultimately had her powerful female character, ruler of a culture, incredibly powerful psychic, become a willing victim of benevolent sexism because the author thought that was how it had to be. Even if she could free herself, she should not because everyone knows they’re meant to be together.

The most horrifying thing about systems of oppression is how they turn us into our own jailers.
posted by Deoridhe at 11:17 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]


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