"I'd like Emma Stone to play every role in the movie. We'll CGI her."
April 23, 2018 11:30 AM Subscribe
The Crazy Rich Asians movie trailer has dropped, and it's glorious. Crazy Rich Asians is a 2013 novel by Kevin Kwan that follows Rachel Chu, a Chinese American economics professor, to Singapore to attend a wedding with her boyfriend, Nick. She soon discovers that Nick is "the Prince William of Asia," that his family is crazy rich, and that half the women in Singapore are now out for her blood. The film will be the first major Hollywood release (besides the occasional period piece) to feature an all-Asian cast in 25 years, since 1993's The Joy Luck Club.
Author Kevin Kwan talks about holding out for a movie that would stay true to the spirit of the book: "When Crazy Rich Asians came out, there was initial interest from a producer who wanted to change [the heroine] Rachel Chu into a white girl." The all-Asian cast includes Constance Wu (who has been outspoken about Hollywood whitewashing), Michelle Yeoh, Ken Jeong, Awkwafina, and newcomer Henry Golding - whose casting inspired its own small controversy (warning: autoplaying video) due to his mixed-race background. At the other end of the controversy spectrum, director Jon M. Chu defends his daring decision to... cast Asians in a story about Asians. And a Singaporean writer talks about the differing representation needs of Asians and Asian Americans.
The film's release date is August 17.
Author Kevin Kwan talks about holding out for a movie that would stay true to the spirit of the book: "When Crazy Rich Asians came out, there was initial interest from a producer who wanted to change [the heroine] Rachel Chu into a white girl." The all-Asian cast includes Constance Wu (who has been outspoken about Hollywood whitewashing), Michelle Yeoh, Ken Jeong, Awkwafina, and newcomer Henry Golding - whose casting inspired its own small controversy (warning: autoplaying video) due to his mixed-race background. At the other end of the controversy spectrum, director Jon M. Chu defends his daring decision to... cast Asians in a story about Asians. And a Singaporean writer talks about the differing representation needs of Asians and Asian Americans.
The film's release date is August 17.
OK, you had me at Awkwafina
posted by NoMich at 11:36 AM on April 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 11:36 AM on April 23, 2018 [7 favorites]
I am so excited for this movie!! The books are great beach reading (although 3 fell off a bit)
posted by jcruelty at 11:38 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by jcruelty at 11:38 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Desus on Awkwafina's old show
She's been funny for a minute, nice to see her getting some shine
posted by jcruelty at 11:40 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
She's been funny for a minute, nice to see her getting some shine
posted by jcruelty at 11:40 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
No wait...you had me at the Flying Lizards' version "Money" and then you sealed the deal with Awkwafina.
posted by NoMich at 11:40 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by NoMich at 11:40 AM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oooooooh.
posted by ChuraChura at 11:46 AM on April 23, 2018
posted by ChuraChura at 11:46 AM on April 23, 2018
OMG?@?!! I'M FUCKING HERE FOR THIS!!?!?
Also, for anyone who hasn't read the books. Do yourself a favour and pick them up. They're not perfect, but they're wonderful and entertaining. And I love this cast. I'm so happy it's being adapted.
posted by Fizz at 11:49 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, for anyone who hasn't read the books. Do yourself a favour and pick them up. They're not perfect, but they're wonderful and entertaining. And I love this cast. I'm so happy it's being adapted.
posted by Fizz at 11:49 AM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
I loved the books, I love Constance Wu, I love this trailer, I AM HERE FOR THIS. Maybe I should do a reread before it comes out . . .
posted by leesh at 11:59 AM on April 23, 2018
posted by leesh at 11:59 AM on April 23, 2018
AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I am so excited for this. I saw the teaser the other day and have been waiting for the real trailer and it did not disappoint!! Yes! My elderly Singaporean mother is excited about this!
Oh man what I wouldn't have given for this movie to exist when I was a kid. I mean, my family is from a completely different socioeconomic strata from these people but damn if it wouldn't have been nice to see some people who were the same ethnic/racial background as me,playing the main characters in a movie.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:17 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh man what I wouldn't have given for this movie to exist when I was a kid. I mean, my family is from a completely different socioeconomic strata from these people but damn if it wouldn't have been nice to see some people who were the same ethnic/racial background as me,playing the main characters in a movie.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:17 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Looks great, though I feel like I've watched the entire movie with that trailer
posted by greenhornet at 12:22 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by greenhornet at 12:22 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I followed the casting via the author's Instagram and was amazed to find myself thinking at one point "I just don't know if Harry Shum Jr. is really RIGHT for Charlie Wu (who is clearly the TRUE ROMANTIC HERO of Crazy Rich Asians, Nick is a snorefest, THERE I SAID IT), I mean he has a bit of a douchey image and Charlie is just such a humble character..." Literally until this movie my thought process for evaluating the casting of an Asian character was this: Is the character Asian in the source material? Is the actor Asian? YAY! A+! So it was really kind of cool and interesting to get to actually think through and argue about the finer points.
Similarly, they announced that Ken Jeong was going to be in it and didn't say who he was going to play for the longest time, and even though he's really kinda too old to play Henry Golding's similarly aged cousin, I had my fingers crossed for him to play Eddie Cheng. He does seem well suited for the role he is playing (Awkwafina's dad!), but a part of me will always be disappointed that I didn't get to see his version of Eddie.
And Constance Wu is an absolute star, there's no guarantee they're going to consider making the sequels into movies, and I 100 percent understand why she needed to be the main character of Crazy Rich Asians instead of an incredibly minor character who gets a central role in the later books. But with her comedic skills, how amazing would she have been as Kitty Pong?!
(Eddie Cheng is hands down my favorite character COME AT ME)
posted by sunset in snow country at 12:45 PM on April 23, 2018 [15 favorites]
Similarly, they announced that Ken Jeong was going to be in it and didn't say who he was going to play for the longest time, and even though he's really kinda too old to play Henry Golding's similarly aged cousin, I had my fingers crossed for him to play Eddie Cheng. He does seem well suited for the role he is playing (Awkwafina's dad!), but a part of me will always be disappointed that I didn't get to see his version of Eddie.
And Constance Wu is an absolute star, there's no guarantee they're going to consider making the sequels into movies, and I 100 percent understand why she needed to be the main character of Crazy Rich Asians instead of an incredibly minor character who gets a central role in the later books. But with her comedic skills, how amazing would she have been as Kitty Pong?!
(Eddie Cheng is hands down my favorite character COME AT ME)
posted by sunset in snow country at 12:45 PM on April 23, 2018 [15 favorites]
"I just don't know if Harry Shum Jr. is really RIGHT for Charlie Wu (who is clearly the TRUE ROMANTIC HERO of Crazy Rich Asians, Nick is a snorefest, THERE I SAID IT), I mean he has a bit of a douchey image and Charlie is just such a humble character..."
hdu, half of his social media posts are of him riding bikes with his dog and skateboarding with his dog and kissing his dog, maybe servitude to a small fluffy dog isn't exactly the same thing as humility, but it is the Instagram equivalent!!!
(I'm just kidding, except also I do sincerely love Harry Shum Jr. and his many athletic endeavors with his tiny ewok dog)
I can't wait to give this movie my money.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:59 PM on April 23, 2018
hdu, half of his social media posts are of him riding bikes with his dog and skateboarding with his dog and kissing his dog, maybe servitude to a small fluffy dog isn't exactly the same thing as humility, but it is the Instagram equivalent!!!
(I'm just kidding, except also I do sincerely love Harry Shum Jr. and his many athletic endeavors with his tiny ewok dog)
I can't wait to give this movie my money.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 12:59 PM on April 23, 2018
This movie is so not for me. Which kinda makes me want to go see it anyway. The world needs more movies that aren't for me.
posted by explosion at 1:01 PM on April 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by explosion at 1:01 PM on April 23, 2018 [14 favorites]
Tbh I honestly can't remember why I thought that about Harry Shum Jr - I thought he did something scandalous at some point but nothing came up when I googled him so maybe I made it up and was just secretly biased against him because he's so ripped? But I've come around to the idea of him as Charlie, and now I know about his dog, so win!
posted by sunset in snow country at 1:05 PM on April 23, 2018
posted by sunset in snow country at 1:05 PM on April 23, 2018
"I loved the books, I love Constance Wu, I love this trailer, I AM HERE FOR THIS. "
You literally stole my comment so I'll just sit here and go "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:11 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
You literally stole my comment so I'll just sit here and go "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 1:11 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
maybe I made it up and was just secretly biased against him because he's so ripped?
Maybe it's the Glee miasma in general? I’m so glad he has escaped.
One of the funniest things to me about Shadowhunters is that the guy playing his boyfriend on the show is like 6’4”, and so every scene with the two of them makes HSJ look small, and his startlingly jacked abs are almost always hidden under fancy embroidered clothes, and I have to keep convincing people that he isn’t actually tiny or willowy. He works so hard to be that ripped! And they cover him up so completely and rarely let him dance! The injustice!
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:13 PM on April 23, 2018
Maybe it's the Glee miasma in general? I’m so glad he has escaped.
One of the funniest things to me about Shadowhunters is that the guy playing his boyfriend on the show is like 6’4”, and so every scene with the two of them makes HSJ look small, and his startlingly jacked abs are almost always hidden under fancy embroidered clothes, and I have to keep convincing people that he isn’t actually tiny or willowy. He works so hard to be that ripped! And they cover him up so completely and rarely let him dance! The injustice!
posted by a fiendish thingy at 1:13 PM on April 23, 2018
omg omg omg omg omg omg omg omg!!!!!!!!! how am I going to survive until 8/17?!
posted by palomar at 2:32 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by palomar at 2:32 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
This movie is so not for me. Which kinda makes me want to go see it anyway. The world needs more movies that aren't for me.
My feelings exactly.
posted by me3dia at 3:09 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
My feelings exactly.
posted by me3dia at 3:09 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
This movie is so not for me. Which kinda makes me want to go see it anyway. The world needs more movies that aren't for me.
My feelings exactly.
Oh, I wish y'all wouldn't say that. The last thing we need in this world is more balkanization.
This movie may be for you. Isn't that the premise most great entertainment, universal stories?
posted by Borborygmus at 3:31 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
My feelings exactly.
Oh, I wish y'all wouldn't say that. The last thing we need in this world is more balkanization.
This movie may be for you. Isn't that the premise most great entertainment, universal stories?
posted by Borborygmus at 3:31 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
To be clear, I'm a straight(ish) white cis man. Black Panther was a breath of fresh air, but it wasn't for me, even though I could appreciate it. Too many movies are made with "but what will (men/white people/straight people) think?"
I love that they made a movie where they explicitly said, "no, we will have an all-Asian cast, this is important to us."
posted by explosion at 4:07 PM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
I love that they made a movie where they explicitly said, "no, we will have an all-Asian cast, this is important to us."
posted by explosion at 4:07 PM on April 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
The book--I've only read the first one so far--was a lot of fun, although I had some issues with how women were portrayed. I think by giving parts like Peik Lin to actors like Awkwafina the movie will go a long way in fixing those issues. There are so many scenes in the book, like THE WEDDING and also ALL OF ASTRID'S CLOTHES that I really can't wait to see on screen.
posted by capricorn at 4:08 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by capricorn at 4:08 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Omh yassss here for Astrid’s wardrobe, Harry Shum Jrs abs, and Queen Michelle Yeoh 😍
posted by supercrayon at 4:37 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by supercrayon at 4:37 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm excited but also because I can continue lmao that the two main leads playing the rich Singaporeans are Malaysians mwahahahahaha. One of whom is half-Iban.
posted by cendawanita at 5:19 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 5:19 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
(and I have no idea what the conversation is with As-Ams, but Singaporeans are a little sore not so much that Henry Golding is half-white but he's not 'even' Chinese. But again, here I am, lmao, because there is notorious prejudice in Singapore against Sabahan and Sarawakian Malaysians, esp those who are indigenous, because majoritarian superiority is the same anywhere. So, ha.)
posted by cendawanita at 5:26 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 5:26 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I am so, so excited about this movie. The books were delightful.
And YESSSSS to seeing ALL OF Astrid's clothes.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 5:30 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
And YESSSSS to seeing ALL OF Astrid's clothes.
posted by theBigRedKittyPurrs at 5:30 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
Ah, good point cendawanita, thanks for the note/correction! Here in the U.S. the big flap was that another Asian American actress made some sort of jerky comments about Henry Golding being half white, and the Asian American community pretty much rallied around Golding and told her to stfu, but there's definitely still some lingering discomfort around the way Eurocentric beauty standards tend to elevate mixed-white people (especially since an Asian male romantic lead in an American movie is an incredibly rare thing). As you point out, in Singapore the issue for most people seems to be not that he's white but that he's Iban. And then his response that got published all over the place emphasizes how he's culturally Asian and has lived in Asia for most of his life, which is heartfelt and relevant but doesn't exactly address either issue. (Awkwafina had a take on it that predictably made much more sense to me as an Asian American, but I can't find the quote now for the life of me - she said something about how there was even crap dished out in her family about her being Chinese or Korean "enough" because she's both, and basically drew a line between general trashing of mixed people and the "but white beauty standards" issue.) I don't really care because I think it's crap that he had to address it in the first place, but basically the whole thing has been a mix-up of different issues and people talking past each other. Bottom line: He's perfect for Nick. Look at the man. Hello.
posted by sunset in snow country at 6:12 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by sunset in snow country at 6:12 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
This movie is so not for me. Which kinda makes me want to go see it anyway. The world needs more movies that aren't for me.As an Asian immigrant in the US, my reaction to Black Panther was like that moment when I'm at a party, and two people are having a conversation, and they make space for me, but they keep the conversation going between them, and it's not weird, and it's totally easy. That's how I hope my non Asian friends come to this film.
My feelings exactly.
Oh, I wish y'all wouldn't say that. The last thing we need in this world is more balkanization.
This movie may be for you. Isn't that the premise most great entertainment, universal stories?
This movie is happy to have you join listen in, but it's not going to be interrupted by you.
posted by bl1nk at 6:55 PM on April 23, 2018 [33 favorites]
with that said, I'm kind of eye-rolling about yet another Asian story having its cake and eating it too with "OMG, all this wealth makes people crazy, and it's not all that it's cracked up to be, but hey, let's keep showing off how wealthy and status obsessed these Asians are and glorify these superficial lives that we envy", but hey, two steps forward, etc.
I'll watch it for the sake of solidarity, but it feels like being compelled to watch the Sex and The City Movie in some alternate reality where there were no other films with all female leads, and I can not wait until we have better stories to support.
posted by bl1nk at 7:07 PM on April 23, 2018 [9 favorites]
I'll watch it for the sake of solidarity, but it feels like being compelled to watch the Sex and The City Movie in some alternate reality where there were no other films with all female leads, and I can not wait until we have better stories to support.
posted by bl1nk at 7:07 PM on April 23, 2018 [9 favorites]
maybe it would've been better off if he was the prince of genovia or wakanda, because trying to think about the political and sociocultural history of Singapore, on how they became so rich in the first place... but hey, #representation. Asians in Asia are genuinely taking notes.
posted by cendawanita at 7:19 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by cendawanita at 7:19 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
I haven't gone to a silly rom-com movie in ages (so many were boring or had unpleasant gender role things happening) but this would be a great excuse to go to one!
And I guess it's "not for me" because it's an Asian cast, but I don't think that will affect my enjoyment, because it's a fun story? And interesting because I don't know much about Singapore culture so though I know I won't get all the references I will learn something, even if it's a trivial fact, and that's cool?
I didn't have any trouble rooting for the characters in Black Panther, this is not very hard to do.
posted by emjaybee at 7:47 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
And I guess it's "not for me" because it's an Asian cast, but I don't think that will affect my enjoyment, because it's a fun story? And interesting because I don't know much about Singapore culture so though I know I won't get all the references I will learn something, even if it's a trivial fact, and that's cool?
I didn't have any trouble rooting for the characters in Black Panther, this is not very hard to do.
posted by emjaybee at 7:47 PM on April 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
It looks like a Bollywood movie, but Singaporean Chinese.
I grew up watching Singapore TV so the prospect of seeing all these people I grew up watching in a Hollywood context is intriguing and also strange. (I don't think they showed up in the trailer, though I know they've been cast)
Is the blonde chick Awkwafina? Because honestly, her not-very-hybrid super-American accent is THROWING ME OFF. I don't know if the secret here (I haven't read the book) is that she's putting the accent on (which is a whole conversation over there), or if she's meant to portray someone who's spent time overseas and has adopted part of the accent. If she was more of the latter, like me, I would expect there to there still be some Singaporean in her accent - closer to ambiguity. My accent's all kind of ambiguous because of living outside Malaysia for 12 years but there's still a little sliver of it in there.
posted by divabat at 7:49 PM on April 23, 2018
I grew up watching Singapore TV so the prospect of seeing all these people I grew up watching in a Hollywood context is intriguing and also strange. (I don't think they showed up in the trailer, though I know they've been cast)
Is the blonde chick Awkwafina? Because honestly, her not-very-hybrid super-American accent is THROWING ME OFF. I don't know if the secret here (I haven't read the book) is that she's putting the accent on (which is a whole conversation over there), or if she's meant to portray someone who's spent time overseas and has adopted part of the accent. If she was more of the latter, like me, I would expect there to there still be some Singaporean in her accent - closer to ambiguity. My accent's all kind of ambiguous because of living outside Malaysia for 12 years but there's still a little sliver of it in there.
posted by divabat at 7:49 PM on April 23, 2018
truly, if no one gets into a massive opinionated fight about food, then this movie is NOT LEGIT.
posted by cendawanita at 7:56 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 7:56 PM on April 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
It'll be great when we reach the day that the cast and director and writer are all Asian but the title is simply "Crazy Rich."
posted by zardoz at 9:46 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 9:46 PM on April 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
damn, thanks to divabat: also where's all the non-chinese singaporeans*??
*(except the lead guy hiding in plain sight ha ha)
so the prospect of seeing all these people I grew up watching in a Hollywood context is intriguing and also strange. (I don't think they showed up in the trailer, though I know they've been cast)
Got, Tan Kheng Hua is there (Chu Beng's wife in PCK) but it looks like she's playing an American Chinese l-o-l
posted by cendawanita at 12:05 AM on April 24, 2018
*(except the lead guy hiding in plain sight ha ha)
so the prospect of seeing all these people I grew up watching in a Hollywood context is intriguing and also strange. (I don't think they showed up in the trailer, though I know they've been cast)
Got, Tan Kheng Hua is there (Chu Beng's wife in PCK) but it looks like she's playing an American Chinese l-o-l
posted by cendawanita at 12:05 AM on April 24, 2018
Ok but where’s the singlish?
That's what I want to know!
For an earlier job I traveled to Singapore a lot and this trailer has a decided lack of "lah" 's
posted by alchemist at 1:45 AM on April 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
That's what I want to know!
For an earlier job I traveled to Singapore a lot and this trailer has a decided lack of "lah" 's
posted by alchemist at 1:45 AM on April 24, 2018 [7 favorites]
This movie is so not for me. Which kinda makes me want to go see it anyway. The world needs more movies that aren't for me.I'm actually curious about why you think it's not for you. Because you're not Asian or Asian-American? Because it's chick stuff?
Anyway, that looks fun as hell.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 4:42 AM on April 24, 2018
This movie may be for you. Isn't that the premise most great entertainment, universal stories?
I'm with Ebert on this:
posted by octothorpe at 4:42 AM on April 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
I'm with Ebert on this:
When I go to a great movie I can live somebody else's life for a while. I can walk in somebody else's shoes. I can see what it feels like to be a member of a different gender, a different race, a different economic class, to live in a different time, to have a different belief.I already know what it's like to be a middle-aged white guy, I like stories that let me peer into other lives.
posted by octothorpe at 4:42 AM on April 24, 2018 [8 favorites]
yeah the lack of Singlish is WEIRD!!! Someone might claim "oh well they're upper class they'd be more refined" but my upper-middle-class JB family sometimes hangs out with these types and the SINGLISH/MANGLISH IS EVER FLOWING
the ones who spend a lot of effort on Proper English TM are usually trying too hard.
posted by divabat at 5:08 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
the ones who spend a lot of effort on Proper English TM are usually trying too hard.
posted by divabat at 5:08 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Would Henry Goulding be the first Indigenous-Asian person to hold the lead role in a Hollywood movie?
posted by divabat at 5:13 AM on April 24, 2018
posted by divabat at 5:13 AM on April 24, 2018
yeah the lack of Singlish is WEIRD!!! Someone might claim "oh well they're upper class they'd be more refined" but my upper-middle-class JB family sometimes hangs out with these types and the SINGLISH/MANGLISH IS EVER FLOWING
the ones who spend a lot of effort on Proper English TM are usually trying too hard.
Attas people England not powderful meh?
posted by the cydonian at 5:21 AM on April 24, 2018
the ones who spend a lot of effort on Proper English TM are usually trying too hard.
Attas people England not powderful meh?
posted by the cydonian at 5:21 AM on April 24, 2018
Very powderful. But also sometimes has flavour lah, not this Orang Barat Received Pronounciation blandness.
posted by divabat at 5:24 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by divabat at 5:24 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Someone pls report if the OCBC clan speak powderful england liddis, because iirc that's the family that inspired the series.
but on that note, together with Discovery, finally!! Michelle Yeoh is playing the character that actually fits her accent (I tease because I can never let go the fact she's supposed to be Filipina in Sunshine) lolololol
if Awkwafina doesn't manage to fit in at least a "yah hor" in that blasian accent.... and since it's her convo with the lead girl that mentioned the whole concept of banana, ta-da: Jin Hackman - Banana
posted by cendawanita at 5:33 AM on April 24, 2018
but on that note, together with Discovery, finally!! Michelle Yeoh is playing the character that actually fits her accent (I tease because I can never let go the fact she's supposed to be Filipina in Sunshine) lolololol
if Awkwafina doesn't manage to fit in at least a "yah hor" in that blasian accent.... and since it's her convo with the lead girl that mentioned the whole concept of banana, ta-da: Jin Hackman - Banana
posted by cendawanita at 5:33 AM on April 24, 2018
Would Henry Goulding be the first Indigenous-Asian person to hold the lead role in a Hollywood movie?
Sessue Hayakawa, I think, claims that spot, as problematic as his roles often were. Patheticially enough, there's little further competition between the silent era and now.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:59 AM on April 24, 2018
Sessue Hayakawa, I think, claims that spot, as problematic as his roles often were. Patheticially enough, there's little further competition between the silent era and now.
posted by gusottertrout at 6:59 AM on April 24, 2018
I already know what it's like to be a middle-aged white guy, I like stories that let me peer into other lives.
keeping in mind that this is specifically a Singaporean upper-class lived experience and that this is not, whatsoever, representative of all Asians or Asian Americans
the number of times white people have told me that they have read Amy Tan and relate to my experience or asks if my family does this thing that Tan's family does or just ask me if I've read Amy Tan or what Amy Tan meant when she wrote this is a tiresome microaggression. I'm one of a large, indistinguishable block of people with East Asian features in your eyes, I get it, thanks
posted by runt at 7:33 AM on April 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
keeping in mind that this is specifically a Singaporean upper-class lived experience and that this is not, whatsoever, representative of all Asians or Asian Americans
the number of times white people have told me that they have read Amy Tan and relate to my experience or asks if my family does this thing that Tan's family does or just ask me if I've read Amy Tan or what Amy Tan meant when she wrote this is a tiresome microaggression. I'm one of a large, indistinguishable block of people with East Asian features in your eyes, I get it, thanks
posted by runt at 7:33 AM on April 24, 2018 [5 favorites]
Would Henry Goulding be the first Indigenous-Asian person to hold the lead role in a Hollywood movie?I think Yul Brynner had some Buryat ancestors, but I'm not sure whether that counts.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 7:36 AM on April 24, 2018
keeping in mind that this is specifically a Singaporean upper-class lived experience and that this is not, whatsoever, representative of all Asians or Asian Americans
I'd hope that I wouldn't assume that but I can see how it would be annoying when people do.
posted by octothorpe at 7:54 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'd hope that I wouldn't assume that but I can see how it would be annoying when people do.
posted by octothorpe at 7:54 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
On who this movie is "for": There are in fact many significant ways that this movie is not "for" me, a Japanese American with absolutely no cultural (let alone socioeconomic) connection to anything going on anywhere in this story. And I think it's fine to let that be and just enjoy it. I do see where the "don't say it's not for you, it's universal!" crowd is coming from, but I think that elides the fact that the vast majority of entertainment ever produced in the U.S. is blatantly NOT FOR ME (while pretending to be universal), and I make do with it anyway, and so when something comes out that is so specific to a culture other than White American, it's OK to let them claim ownership.
I don't remember what accent Awkwafina's character was described as having in the book (and again, have no cultural knowledge to be able to guess what any given character's accent would be), but fwiw she was "new money" and went to college in the States. I'm pretty sure she was not meant to sound like that, but I think Awkwafina's big personality probably took over the role a bit. I do remember plenty of lahs in the book.
posted by sunset in snow country at 8:40 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
I don't remember what accent Awkwafina's character was described as having in the book (and again, have no cultural knowledge to be able to guess what any given character's accent would be), but fwiw she was "new money" and went to college in the States. I'm pretty sure she was not meant to sound like that, but I think Awkwafina's big personality probably took over the role a bit. I do remember plenty of lahs in the book.
posted by sunset in snow country at 8:40 AM on April 24, 2018 [3 favorites]
I kid of course, especially in these days of high/low SES awareness. Lee Kuan Yew and his generation may have spoken in RP, but these days, most attas people speak in what I like to call as a Pandan Valley accent, the accent you are most likely to hear in Starbucks at Holland Village/ 6th Avenue. The folks in the trailer don’t speak that patois.
Alfian Saat and others made this point on Facebook: there are no non-East-Asian characters in the movie, and that the comparison is tellingly not with Asian royalty, but British. Also token Indians and Malays you see in the frames tend to vanish in the background. I don’t know enough about the book or movie to know if it is warranted. But the discussion about representation has completely different tones in US-centric and Singapore-centric circles.
posted by the cydonian at 9:18 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
Alfian Saat and others made this point on Facebook: there are no non-East-Asian characters in the movie, and that the comparison is tellingly not with Asian royalty, but British. Also token Indians and Malays you see in the frames tend to vanish in the background. I don’t know enough about the book or movie to know if it is warranted. But the discussion about representation has completely different tones in US-centric and Singapore-centric circles.
posted by the cydonian at 9:18 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
there are no non-East-Asian characters in the movie, and that the comparison is tellingly not with Asian royalty, but British. Also token Indians and Malays you see in the frames tend to vanish in the background
this conversation is happening here in the States but really only in AAPI circles and unfortunately the norms are still fairly regressive (see Ali Wong's bit on 'jungle vs fancy Asians' for example)
posted by runt at 10:43 AM on April 24, 2018
this conversation is happening here in the States but really only in AAPI circles and unfortunately the norms are still fairly regressive (see Ali Wong's bit on 'jungle vs fancy Asians' for example)
posted by runt at 10:43 AM on April 24, 2018
It'll be great when we reach the day that the cast and director and writer are all Asian but the title is simply "Crazy Rich."
THIS. SO MUCH.
I saw the trailer and I absolutely cannot relate to this movie at all. I might also watch it at some point out of solidarity. There's an uneasiness I feel about my asian-american friends clamoring for this movie. I want something that is just about American life but with Asians (and have it be good -- the main complaint I've read about Better Luck Tomorrow was that it tried too hard to avoid Asian stereotypes, and that it was dramatically thin).
posted by numaner at 10:46 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
THIS. SO MUCH.
I saw the trailer and I absolutely cannot relate to this movie at all. I might also watch it at some point out of solidarity. There's an uneasiness I feel about my asian-american friends clamoring for this movie. I want something that is just about American life but with Asians (and have it be good -- the main complaint I've read about Better Luck Tomorrow was that it tried too hard to avoid Asian stereotypes, and that it was dramatically thin).
posted by numaner at 10:46 AM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I'm gonna go see this to support AZN representation in film, but my family's Filipino and absolutely none of this speaks to me. I'm happy to see Superstore's Nico Santos in the mix, and I love Awkwafina and Ken Jeong, so it should be a good time anyway.
posted by Maaik at 10:52 AM on April 24, 2018
posted by Maaik at 10:52 AM on April 24, 2018
I've never read the book, would y'all recommend it to someone with heavy classist bias? I have a hard time consuming fiction with focused on rich people, I just struggle to see their troubles and problems as relatable, assuming I can even get past just wanting to see them fail or die. Rich people trying to find love or relationships is also an area I struggle with enjoying or consuming.
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:10 AM on April 24, 2018
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:10 AM on April 24, 2018
The book is very much about how being rich fucks you up, but there's a fair amount of namedropping and luscious descriptions of over-the-top parties, real estate and clothing, too. A classist-biased friend of mine got through it, but mentioned wanting to kick everyone in the head for wasting their lives, especially Astrid. There's a decent amount of made-good characters from non-rich circles to sympathise with, thankfully, including Rachel.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:56 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:56 AM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
I'm super excited about this film and plan to take my daughter. I love rom-coms. My daughter only likes romance if it's tragic. She likes some comedy, but I don't know if this will really be up her alley story-wise. I'm taking her to see it though because she's been noticing the extreme lack of Asian people in most media she consumes. We've enjoyed, for the most part, watching Brooklyn Nine-Nine, but she remembers when they had an Asian hairdresser in one episode. She asked me yesterday if I could think of any comics with an Asian character at all and I could only think of one that introduced a minor character in something like volume ten. So she's going to see this with me.
posted by Margalo Epps at 12:05 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Margalo Epps at 12:05 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
There are in fact many significant ways that this movie is not "for" me, a Japanese American with absolutely no cultural (let alone socioeconomic) connection to anything going on anywhere in this story. And I think it's fine to let that be and just enjoy it.
At this point in my TL, apparently it's not for a significant number of Singaporeans either. And it's not a small thing, talking about this erasure, especially in the context of the locally coined 'Chinese Supremacy/Privilege' (previously posted; disclaimer: by me)
i don't even want to guess where's their general headspace is at, but hey, the entire film production (regardless of the book's original intent as satire...??) is all about Asian-American representation at its conceptual core, so people are just treating it like an American movie, in a very ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ way.
posted by cendawanita at 12:17 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
At this point in my TL, apparently it's not for a significant number of Singaporeans either. And it's not a small thing, talking about this erasure, especially in the context of the locally coined 'Chinese Supremacy/Privilege' (previously posted; disclaimer: by me)
i don't even want to guess where's their general headspace is at, but hey, the entire film production (regardless of the book's original intent as satire...??) is all about Asian-American representation at its conceptual core, so people are just treating it like an American movie, in a very ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ way.
posted by cendawanita at 12:17 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
She asked me yesterday if I could think of any comics with an Asian character at all
Gene Luen Yang's visual novels are something like canonical within Chinese-American circles with regards to our experience of America particularly American Born Chinese
there are a lot of Asian-American characters in comics. I'm sure there are also Asian characters in comics. I imagine, however, that those are all more miss than hit given the demographics of the industry
posted by runt at 12:46 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Gene Luen Yang's visual novels are something like canonical within Chinese-American circles with regards to our experience of America particularly American Born Chinese
there are a lot of Asian-American characters in comics. I'm sure there are also Asian characters in comics. I imagine, however, that those are all more miss than hit given the demographics of the industry
posted by runt at 12:46 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
She asked me yesterday if I could think of any comics with an Asian character at all
The (very good) webcomic Octopus Pie has a bunch of Asian characters, including the main character. The author isn't Asian, though.
posted by trig at 1:14 PM on April 24, 2018
The (very good) webcomic Octopus Pie has a bunch of Asian characters, including the main character. The author isn't Asian, though.
posted by trig at 1:14 PM on April 24, 2018
The Asian-Americans on here going "well this doesn't represent me at all!" bemuse me because I've seen a lot of Asian-American media being pushed to me as "relatable!!! Coz you're Asian!!!" and I'm like, it's a very different experience being Asian in Asia, don't presume to speak for me please.
posted by divabat at 3:05 PM on April 24, 2018
posted by divabat at 3:05 PM on April 24, 2018
Exactly. I'd probably have different feelings about this movie if I was, say, a Singaporean, although from the discussion so far it sounds like they're offended by the chosen actors for the movie, so I might have been too. (The sad fact is that there's so few ethnically East/Southeast Asian actors in Hollywood that one ethnicity is cast as many others, and I was legit super happy that Legends of Tomorrow actually got a Vietnamese actress for a major role of the episode set in Vietnam).
My feelings about Hollywood and representation in films and shows are a direct result of being an American. I wouldn't presume to speak for Asians living in other countries about how they feel about American films and shows (although for quite a few I can assume certain stereotypes, like how it was not surprising that Japanese people loved that a white person played the lead role in Ghost in the Shell), and I certainly wouldn't push my own feelings about their nations' versions of Hollywood, albeit equal representation of a nation's peoples should be the norm.
posted by numaner at 4:23 PM on April 24, 2018
My feelings about Hollywood and representation in films and shows are a direct result of being an American. I wouldn't presume to speak for Asians living in other countries about how they feel about American films and shows (although for quite a few I can assume certain stereotypes, like how it was not surprising that Japanese people loved that a white person played the lead role in Ghost in the Shell), and I certainly wouldn't push my own feelings about their nations' versions of Hollywood, albeit equal representation of a nation's peoples should be the norm.
posted by numaner at 4:23 PM on April 24, 2018
there are a lot of Asian-American characters in comics. I'm sure there are also Asian characters in comics. I imagine, however, that those are all more miss than hit given the demographics of the industry
She's talking about newspaper comics primarily, to a lesser extent to collections of comics (not graphic novels) I have around the house. She noted that the only comic she could think of with an Asian character was Dykes to Watch Out For (an old comic published in alternative papers). I mean, we have Poston Camp II, Block 211 as well, but it's not exactly the hilarity she's looking for.
posted by Margalo Epps at 6:15 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
She's talking about newspaper comics primarily, to a lesser extent to collections of comics (not graphic novels) I have around the house. She noted that the only comic she could think of with an Asian character was Dykes to Watch Out For (an old comic published in alternative papers). I mean, we have Poston Camp II, Block 211 as well, but it's not exactly the hilarity she's looking for.
posted by Margalo Epps at 6:15 PM on April 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
You know what? At the very least tho, even setting aside the not-insignificant issue of erasure in a culturally heterogeneous country (go see Singapore's tourist spiel for how much they push this trait as a defining trait, unlike a lot of other places), it wouldn't have bugged so bad if I could get the sense that the American actors put in the same amount of effort in getting the accent and patois right the way Chadwick Boseman and gang respectfully did for a fictional country. I mean... Even on mefi there was even a post on Singlish. It's hard to not draw an unfavourable conclusion, but who gives a toss about non-China Southeast Asian countries, it seems like.
posted by cendawanita at 7:28 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 7:28 PM on April 24, 2018 [2 favorites]
any AsAm will walk into it wanting their Black Panther, so to speak, and this may not deliver
The Pacific Rim series had potential to be this, but I was disappointed that the sequel was so China-centric, partly because it was made with major backing of a Chinese studio.
posted by FJT at 9:21 PM on April 24, 2018
The Pacific Rim series had potential to be this, but I was disappointed that the sequel was so China-centric, partly because it was made with major backing of a Chinese studio.
posted by FJT at 9:21 PM on April 24, 2018
Did it? I mean, I liked Pacific Rim, but, like... only one character was Asian, Mako Mori. And it was written and directed by non-Asian-Americans.
Well, Black Panther was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. His first appearance in the Marvel Cinematic Universe was in Captain America: Civil War.
When I wrote the Pacific Rim series had "potential", I meant in a way that someone could take the ball and run with it. Because the setting is about a future where the countries along the Pacific Rim put aside their differences to form a Pan-Pacific defense force. It was also an original story that didn't have to adhere to any previous book or pre-established fanbase. So the 2013 movie is a decent starting point to build off of and have a sequel where most or all of it's cast be Asians and Pacific Islanders from all over the Pacific Region.
posted by FJT at 12:43 AM on April 25, 2018
Well, Black Panther was created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. His first appearance in the Marvel Cinematic Universe was in Captain America: Civil War.
When I wrote the Pacific Rim series had "potential", I meant in a way that someone could take the ball and run with it. Because the setting is about a future where the countries along the Pacific Rim put aside their differences to form a Pan-Pacific defense force. It was also an original story that didn't have to adhere to any previous book or pre-established fanbase. So the 2013 movie is a decent starting point to build off of and have a sequel where most or all of it's cast be Asians and Pacific Islanders from all over the Pacific Region.
posted by FJT at 12:43 AM on April 25, 2018
I think that all of this flailing about defining "the Asian Black Panther" kind of misses the fact that the influence of African Americans in Hollywood is still years ahead of what Asian Americans have established. Ryan Coogler has emerged as a director on a path that was walked by Spike Lee and Tyler Perry and Ava DuVernay. Black Panther itself follows on stories like Hidden Figures, Dear White People, and Fruitvale Station for aspiring to tell stories of the African American experience that push against white imposed stereotypes.
History isn't changed by singular events. It is the process of a number of incremental advances that is often capped by a landmark, and that landmark stands on the shoulders of dozens of other efforts that have come before it.
The fact that we're struggling to take a romantic comedy that has more in common with The Princess Diaries than Black Panther simply because it is the only film which can earn a comparison by dint of its casting and crew choices just shows how much more representation is needed. We should expect and demand more. This is not our Black Panther. This is our How Stella Got Her Groove Back. It's a good start, but it's just a start.
posted by bl1nk at 5:05 AM on April 25, 2018 [9 favorites]
History isn't changed by singular events. It is the process of a number of incremental advances that is often capped by a landmark, and that landmark stands on the shoulders of dozens of other efforts that have come before it.
The fact that we're struggling to take a romantic comedy that has more in common with The Princess Diaries than Black Panther simply because it is the only film which can earn a comparison by dint of its casting and crew choices just shows how much more representation is needed. We should expect and demand more. This is not our Black Panther. This is our How Stella Got Her Groove Back. It's a good start, but it's just a start.
posted by bl1nk at 5:05 AM on April 25, 2018 [9 favorites]
Because the setting is about a future where the countries along the Pacific Rim put aside their differences to form a Pan-Pacific defense force. It was also an original story that didn't have to adhere to any previous book or pre-established fanbase. So the 2013 movie is a decent starting point to build off of and have a sequel where most or all of it's cast be Asians and Pacific Islanders from all over the Pacific Region.What I felt was particularly powerful about Black Panther was that it told the story of Africans in a format and a level that had been long denied to them. Essentially, Africa got to have the technofuturistic myth that Japan had long enjoyed, and we got to imagine something new. A vision of Wakanda as an African Neo-Tokyo. Technological interfaces and aesthetics through an African cultural lens. etc.
Whereas a multinational force of robot pilots who come together to beat up giant monsters is pretty well tread ground for Asian cinema and culture. I actually think asking for "an Asian Black Panther" is kind of a trap. Japan and Korea have churned out a ton of superhero tales that are centered on Asia. I know it's not "just" about the superhero story, but if telling a story that is different from what we were allowed to tell before is what we want, then we should ask for that.
What are the stories and who are the characters that the West has traditionally rejected from Asian storytellers? Where is the Asian American 8 Mile telling stories of Hmong refugees in Detroit who actually suck at math and are growing up poor and love hip hop? Where is the Asian American Friday Night Lights? Where is the Asian American Selma?
posted by bl1nk at 5:22 AM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
Yeah I don't particularly want an Asian Black Panther. African American history and Asian American history are two different paths of the same history of this country, and trying to conflate the two with the same stories doesn't make sense.
posted by numaner at 1:37 PM on April 25, 2018
posted by numaner at 1:37 PM on April 25, 2018
I read an article recently where a bunch of Asian Americans (maybe specifically Asian American women) talked about the first time they saw someone like themselves in the media. Mulan came up more than once, I think some folks also mentioned Joy Luck Club.
For me, it was going to see Knocked Up during college, in the scene where Katherine Heigl goes to Seth Rogen's house and meets his friends for the first time. Charlene Yi was flopped back on the couch, stoned off her rocker, and that was the first time I remembered seeing an Asian person playing a person-who-happened-to-be-Asian on the big screen.
I get that it's important to have the diversity of Asian(-American) experience represented and valued. In my own day-to-day though, I am very resentful of having to speak On Behalf of The Asian-American Community (lulz) and oh my god I was so! excited! to see an Asian Person who was allowed to just be a Regular Person.
Something else that has stuck with me is the idea that true equality is not equal opportunity to succeed, but rather equal opportunity to be mediocre. I'm pretty meh on Crazy Rich Asians and I think it's like bl1nk's SATC comparison. I wish there were enough Asian stories out there that CRA didn't have to be Black Panther and I didn't feel obliged to support it in solidarity.
posted by yeahlikethat at 1:45 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
For me, it was going to see Knocked Up during college, in the scene where Katherine Heigl goes to Seth Rogen's house and meets his friends for the first time. Charlene Yi was flopped back on the couch, stoned off her rocker, and that was the first time I remembered seeing an Asian person playing a person-who-happened-to-be-Asian on the big screen.
I get that it's important to have the diversity of Asian(-American) experience represented and valued. In my own day-to-day though, I am very resentful of having to speak On Behalf of The Asian-American Community (lulz) and oh my god I was so! excited! to see an Asian Person who was allowed to just be a Regular Person.
Something else that has stuck with me is the idea that true equality is not equal opportunity to succeed, but rather equal opportunity to be mediocre. I'm pretty meh on Crazy Rich Asians and I think it's like bl1nk's SATC comparison. I wish there were enough Asian stories out there that CRA didn't have to be Black Panther and I didn't feel obliged to support it in solidarity.
posted by yeahlikethat at 1:45 PM on April 25, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also the thing that bothers me most about Crazy Rich Asians is that I think the book is terrible. I've tried to read chunks of it multiple times and truly do not understand the rave reviews it's gotten. I don't have a problem with fluffy soap opera storylines* but they still need to be reasonably developed and well-written. These characters were just lists of attributes and possessions, and I found the writing to be flat, stilted, and awkward.
Honest question, what am I missing? Are my standards for beach reads unreasonable? Is it actually typical of Singaporean writing and I'm having a hard time appreciating the style? Are all the reviewers just that excited to see an Asian novel/ist get traction in the US?
* Ask me about my Downton Abbey phase, but please don't ask me about the corresponding Downton Abbey fanfic phase...
posted by yeahlikethat at 2:08 PM on April 25, 2018
Honest question, what am I missing? Are my standards for beach reads unreasonable? Is it actually typical of Singaporean writing and I'm having a hard time appreciating the style? Are all the reviewers just that excited to see an Asian novel/ist get traction in the US?
* Ask me about my Downton Abbey phase, but please don't ask me about the corresponding Downton Abbey fanfic phase...
posted by yeahlikethat at 2:08 PM on April 25, 2018
If you're looking for just a novel with Asian characters set in an Asian country, I highly recommend 1Q84. The writer, Haruki Murakami, is Japanese, but his style has heavy Western influences.
If you're looking for the perspective of Asian-American authors, Wikipedia has this handy list, but of course the quality probably varies greatly. The only name I recognize at a glance is Viet Thanh Nguyen, whose novel, The Sympathizer, has been in my "I'll get to it eventually" list for like a couple of years now.
posted by numaner at 3:21 PM on April 25, 2018
If you're looking for the perspective of Asian-American authors, Wikipedia has this handy list, but of course the quality probably varies greatly. The only name I recognize at a glance is Viet Thanh Nguyen, whose novel, The Sympathizer, has been in my "I'll get to it eventually" list for like a couple of years now.
posted by numaner at 3:21 PM on April 25, 2018
I haven't read Crazy Rich Asians so I can't speak to quality, but I grew up reading The Teenage Textbook (and its sequel The Teenage Workbook), which follows a group of Singaporean junior college students. I found it entertaining and pretty relatable. I don't know where you can get the books now, but there's a movie adaptation that's pretty meta.
posted by divabat at 4:56 PM on April 25, 2018
posted by divabat at 4:56 PM on April 25, 2018
Adrianna Tan (@skinnylatte) has a twitter thread about the movie:
Asian-Americans and Asians based in Asia are going to see #crazyrichasians differently. Some AA are happy to see representation in Hollywood; others, more versed in social justice see colonialism of East Asians in East Asia.
Asians (in SEAsia) think: I don't recognize myself.
As someone who straddles all of these words (being Asian when sometimes in America, interested in social justice, but also fundamentally Asian based in Asia, in country where my ethnic group is dominant). Who grew up among real #CrazyRichAsians in Singapore, my take: The world that #CrazyRichAsians portrays is real in Singapore. @kevinkwanbooks & myself probably ran in similar circles. My friends at school ate $30 lunches daily at nice restaurants, age 13; vacationed in private islands with royalty, age 15. I was an outsider in this world.
Elite Asians in the former British colonies, like Singapore, have been Anglophiles for centuries. It's not a new thing, not a mimicry of power. Elite Asians were those allowed to go to the right schools and enter the right circles. In Singapore, like in other colonies, divide and rule extended also to various ethnic groups. These precede current understanding of ethno/national borders. It came down to what type of Chinese, Indian, you were. e.g. Straits Chinese (also known as Peranakan) found favour with the British. They straddled both worlds: emphasizing Chinese custom, speaking a creole of Malay & Chinese dialects at home. They tended to speak English better than new immigrants from China, etc.
Working class Chinese from southern China tended to follow set paths for them. They came to 'Nanyang' (south of the ocean, the new world), took on roles set out for them by their compatriots before. Early social networks were granular. Not just Hokkiens did X, Cantonese did Y. our identity was Hokkien generally, but more tied to the small village and to an extent its neighboring area, for example.
Some early Chinese found opportunities in rubber, trade, etc & became merchants. Their impact is felt globally today. Unlike in many other places, wealth among southern Chinese has networked effects. Descendent of rich merchant family from Java last century may well occupy same social class as a Singapore citizen today. Ditto for HK, Philippines, Thailand.
Until the 1950s/1960s, most immigrants to Nanyang had no citizenship in SE Asian countries, and saw themselves as citizens of their ancestral homes, even if they'd never been. Colonial powers encouraged this. You were Chinese, but not to the idea of today's PRC. There are loads of academic papers about how 'Chinese wealth' in SE Asia is held together by intermarriage. When I dated hyper rich Indonesian boy as a teenager, his family wanted my family tree. We could not date coz, obviously I was not an heiress.
Chinese identity in the Nanyang is complex, unique, very distinct from Asian-American identity. There is both privilege, concentrated in hands of the few who wield extreme power; and oppression, in that anti-Chinese pogroms have occurred as recently as 1998 (Indonesia). It bears remembering that 'Jews of the East' has been used to clobber Chinese communities and foster anti-Chinese sentiments; first by European colonial powers, which carries on today sometimes encouraged by existing powers.
Even in Singapore, where Chinese form majority and hold outsized power in government, economy, and social spheres (and Chinese privilege exists), regular Chinese folks (non-rich, even Singaporeans) could never enter that world. That's birthright, or marriage. The well-educated middle class or professional class, largely Chinese, has the trappings of folks from #crazyrichasians class, but they are not a part of that world, even if they imagine. Obviously, the real world of #crazyrichasians is overwhelmingly Chinese. That's accurate. This world sometimes intersects with the world of Singaporean / Malaysian Indian merchant families, which is usually Sindhi.
Not enough Asian-American criticism of #CrazyRichAsians is aware of the realities in this part of the world. Sure, Henry Golding is half white; but even that doesn't mean white privilege in the same sense you'd say that in the US. His other half is Iban, a tribe from Borneo. There are all kinds of oppression towards Ibans, other tribals & Borneo generally. Half British, half Iban / Kadazan / other tribal group / even half Borneo Chinese is probably its own ethnic identity at this point. Traditional white privilege concepts are transferable to an extent, but not really.
People talking like they're from the US or UK, i.e. not like Singaporeans? Real life #crazyrichasians talk like that! It's authentic. They have very little to do with the lived experiences of most Singaporeans you and I know, but that's why they're the top 0.05%. This is not the world of the Chinese Singaporean friend you think is rich, who drives a car and has a condo and goes to Iceland on vacation. This is 'live in the Waldorf-Astoria for 1 year while attending an exchange program from other ivy league college' rich (true story I know). This is not your Asian-American 'be a doctor / lawyer!' world, this is a world where if you brought home a lawyer or doctor your family would probably think you were marrying down - rich
I have little interest in real #CrazyRichAsians. I will not be watching it, because I could just open the Facebook pages of 20 friends from this world. As an outsider, I think they all worry about the same things: love, family, and yes, even money. It's a different level of money worry, of course. It's not 'i have no more money for lunch' worry, not even 'not enough money for a Birkin' (they have 50, already). It's about debts or complex financial instruments their parents might have put them in; It's about the fear of 'coming down in the world', like we saw during the late 90s financial crisis (and my classmates grumbled about having to downgrade to a bungalow in the bad side of Bukit Timah - lol)
I used to be envious of the kind of wealth I saw. Growing up in public housing, it was unfathomable. Not about material things. It was about $4000 school trips (poetry classes in the UK) My parents: write at home. In your underwear. More inspiring. Even then I got the sense that the things they had which were intangible, unique, were not items, but access. Today, I see many of those folks in marriages they hate running businesses they hate. I don't envy their lack of 'choice'. Not being from that world, not really, I don't have to give up my dreams to run my family business; marry someone I dislike; or for women, give up my passion to run my FIL'S family office's philanthropy arm. When you have everything, something's gotta give. Mental health, happiness, personal ambition. Then you get the worst of the Asian expectation: do only what your family wants, what will people think? I'm sure the movie is fun. But for me, too close to home. /End
posted by cendawanita at 11:01 PM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
Asian-Americans and Asians based in Asia are going to see #crazyrichasians differently. Some AA are happy to see representation in Hollywood; others, more versed in social justice see colonialism of East Asians in East Asia.
Asians (in SEAsia) think: I don't recognize myself.
As someone who straddles all of these words (being Asian when sometimes in America, interested in social justice, but also fundamentally Asian based in Asia, in country where my ethnic group is dominant). Who grew up among real #CrazyRichAsians in Singapore, my take: The world that #CrazyRichAsians portrays is real in Singapore. @kevinkwanbooks & myself probably ran in similar circles. My friends at school ate $30 lunches daily at nice restaurants, age 13; vacationed in private islands with royalty, age 15. I was an outsider in this world.
Elite Asians in the former British colonies, like Singapore, have been Anglophiles for centuries. It's not a new thing, not a mimicry of power. Elite Asians were those allowed to go to the right schools and enter the right circles. In Singapore, like in other colonies, divide and rule extended also to various ethnic groups. These precede current understanding of ethno/national borders. It came down to what type of Chinese, Indian, you were. e.g. Straits Chinese (also known as Peranakan) found favour with the British. They straddled both worlds: emphasizing Chinese custom, speaking a creole of Malay & Chinese dialects at home. They tended to speak English better than new immigrants from China, etc.
Working class Chinese from southern China tended to follow set paths for them. They came to 'Nanyang' (south of the ocean, the new world), took on roles set out for them by their compatriots before. Early social networks were granular. Not just Hokkiens did X, Cantonese did Y. our identity was Hokkien generally, but more tied to the small village and to an extent its neighboring area, for example.
Some early Chinese found opportunities in rubber, trade, etc & became merchants. Their impact is felt globally today. Unlike in many other places, wealth among southern Chinese has networked effects. Descendent of rich merchant family from Java last century may well occupy same social class as a Singapore citizen today. Ditto for HK, Philippines, Thailand.
Until the 1950s/1960s, most immigrants to Nanyang had no citizenship in SE Asian countries, and saw themselves as citizens of their ancestral homes, even if they'd never been. Colonial powers encouraged this. You were Chinese, but not to the idea of today's PRC. There are loads of academic papers about how 'Chinese wealth' in SE Asia is held together by intermarriage. When I dated hyper rich Indonesian boy as a teenager, his family wanted my family tree. We could not date coz, obviously I was not an heiress.
Chinese identity in the Nanyang is complex, unique, very distinct from Asian-American identity. There is both privilege, concentrated in hands of the few who wield extreme power; and oppression, in that anti-Chinese pogroms have occurred as recently as 1998 (Indonesia). It bears remembering that 'Jews of the East' has been used to clobber Chinese communities and foster anti-Chinese sentiments; first by European colonial powers, which carries on today sometimes encouraged by existing powers.
Even in Singapore, where Chinese form majority and hold outsized power in government, economy, and social spheres (and Chinese privilege exists), regular Chinese folks (non-rich, even Singaporeans) could never enter that world. That's birthright, or marriage. The well-educated middle class or professional class, largely Chinese, has the trappings of folks from #crazyrichasians class, but they are not a part of that world, even if they imagine. Obviously, the real world of #crazyrichasians is overwhelmingly Chinese. That's accurate. This world sometimes intersects with the world of Singaporean / Malaysian Indian merchant families, which is usually Sindhi.
Not enough Asian-American criticism of #CrazyRichAsians is aware of the realities in this part of the world. Sure, Henry Golding is half white; but even that doesn't mean white privilege in the same sense you'd say that in the US. His other half is Iban, a tribe from Borneo. There are all kinds of oppression towards Ibans, other tribals & Borneo generally. Half British, half Iban / Kadazan / other tribal group / even half Borneo Chinese is probably its own ethnic identity at this point. Traditional white privilege concepts are transferable to an extent, but not really.
People talking like they're from the US or UK, i.e. not like Singaporeans? Real life #crazyrichasians talk like that! It's authentic. They have very little to do with the lived experiences of most Singaporeans you and I know, but that's why they're the top 0.05%. This is not the world of the Chinese Singaporean friend you think is rich, who drives a car and has a condo and goes to Iceland on vacation. This is 'live in the Waldorf-Astoria for 1 year while attending an exchange program from other ivy league college' rich (true story I know). This is not your Asian-American 'be a doctor / lawyer!' world, this is a world where if you brought home a lawyer or doctor your family would probably think you were marrying down - rich
I have little interest in real #CrazyRichAsians. I will not be watching it, because I could just open the Facebook pages of 20 friends from this world. As an outsider, I think they all worry about the same things: love, family, and yes, even money. It's a different level of money worry, of course. It's not 'i have no more money for lunch' worry, not even 'not enough money for a Birkin' (they have 50, already). It's about debts or complex financial instruments their parents might have put them in; It's about the fear of 'coming down in the world', like we saw during the late 90s financial crisis (and my classmates grumbled about having to downgrade to a bungalow in the bad side of Bukit Timah - lol)
I used to be envious of the kind of wealth I saw. Growing up in public housing, it was unfathomable. Not about material things. It was about $4000 school trips (poetry classes in the UK) My parents: write at home. In your underwear. More inspiring. Even then I got the sense that the things they had which were intangible, unique, were not items, but access. Today, I see many of those folks in marriages they hate running businesses they hate. I don't envy their lack of 'choice'. Not being from that world, not really, I don't have to give up my dreams to run my family business; marry someone I dislike; or for women, give up my passion to run my FIL'S family office's philanthropy arm. When you have everything, something's gotta give. Mental health, happiness, personal ambition. Then you get the worst of the Asian expectation: do only what your family wants, what will people think? I'm sure the movie is fun. But for me, too close to home. /End
posted by cendawanita at 11:01 PM on April 25, 2018 [8 favorites]
Pooja Nansi's post comes at it from the non-Chinese Singaporean perspective:
I'm tired of having to say this, but then I see some responses and I worry about who we are becoming as a country. You can say, let's not expect better from a Jack Neo movie, and you can say, let's not expect better from the guy who directed the Justin Bieber movie. And yet these are the movies that the masses watch and these are the narratives in which representation matters the most.
You say this is a win because you 1000% prefer to see richness depicted as a quality of Southeast Asians than living in a village picking rice crops? What you are saying is that the image of brown bodies toiling romanticised for Western palettes is problematic to you, and yet the same brown bodies don't seem to belong in your celebrated depiction of richness. So where do we go? Except to be relegated as drivers or door openers. You think that casting choice of two dark skinned bodies only functioning in servitude was random? You must be even more naive than your response suggests.
And what is so problematic is that a Singaporean writer, someone born into a rich Chinese family, who went to an elite school, who positions himself as Singaporean gets a headline in Time magazine like this one:
Crazy Rich Asians Author on the First All-Asian Cast in 25 Years: 'It's Long Overdue'
What's long overdue is an accurate reflection of the population in the media of a nation that prides itself on multiculturalism that is actually multicultural, where we are not content with playing a token character who needs to be "more Indian" or "more Malay". Where it is fathomable that we can be just as three dimensional, rich, attractive, intelligent, successful, flawed as anyone else. Where we can be individuals and not flame bearers for our entire communities. Where we can be love interests, and protagonists. Where we can also be the face of skin care brands, where darkness is just as visible as whitening creams, where you recognise a whole bunch of us have curly hair and your shampoo aisles can stop talking about silky straightness. Where investment banking services also think we are their target audience. Where brown bodies inhabit our country. OUR country.
You think this is going to shift global perceptions of who we are? It is. Not for the better. And you're also right about it being a fantasy. It's a Singaporean Chinese man's fantasy of erasure of our multiculturalism. One where brown bodies are invisible unless cars need to be driven and doors need to be opened.
If you are Singaporean and you think this is a win for visibility, Then you are absolutely complicit in that fantasy.
We are luxury, we are opulence and we are some kinds of freedom. But we are also caning for grafitti and chewing gum bans. And that's ours to unpack as people who care about the place we live in.
Highlighting the palatable for Hollywood is not long overdue. It is the most overdone thing in media. Kevin Kwan's Crazy Rich Asians is a narrative that is only interested in or aware of a version of us, the ones who are rich, who are beautiful, who already have the most visibility and who cannot open their own doors. And if that is what you think we should be in the world's eyes, then we have to do better. How hungry are we to be acknowledged that we will take any kind of representation at all, even the kind that makes entire communities amongst us invisible? We deserve better. We have to believe that.
This is a win for Asian Americans on the back of my city, my country which is the only home I have. And they may not care about it, but I do.
I love it so much my heart breaks that this is what the world is going to see of us. Because we are infinitely more than this damaging erasure and superficiality, we are so much infinitely more.
so anyway, i'm just here inadvertently witnessing this slow-moving trainwreck in my irl circles while the more non-asian side like on tumblr is all sunshine, roses and representation.
posted by cendawanita at 11:50 PM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm tired of having to say this, but then I see some responses and I worry about who we are becoming as a country. You can say, let's not expect better from a Jack Neo movie, and you can say, let's not expect better from the guy who directed the Justin Bieber movie. And yet these are the movies that the masses watch and these are the narratives in which representation matters the most.
You say this is a win because you 1000% prefer to see richness depicted as a quality of Southeast Asians than living in a village picking rice crops? What you are saying is that the image of brown bodies toiling romanticised for Western palettes is problematic to you, and yet the same brown bodies don't seem to belong in your celebrated depiction of richness. So where do we go? Except to be relegated as drivers or door openers. You think that casting choice of two dark skinned bodies only functioning in servitude was random? You must be even more naive than your response suggests.
And what is so problematic is that a Singaporean writer, someone born into a rich Chinese family, who went to an elite school, who positions himself as Singaporean gets a headline in Time magazine like this one:
Crazy Rich Asians Author on the First All-Asian Cast in 25 Years: 'It's Long Overdue'
What's long overdue is an accurate reflection of the population in the media of a nation that prides itself on multiculturalism that is actually multicultural, where we are not content with playing a token character who needs to be "more Indian" or "more Malay". Where it is fathomable that we can be just as three dimensional, rich, attractive, intelligent, successful, flawed as anyone else. Where we can be individuals and not flame bearers for our entire communities. Where we can be love interests, and protagonists. Where we can also be the face of skin care brands, where darkness is just as visible as whitening creams, where you recognise a whole bunch of us have curly hair and your shampoo aisles can stop talking about silky straightness. Where investment banking services also think we are their target audience. Where brown bodies inhabit our country. OUR country.
You think this is going to shift global perceptions of who we are? It is. Not for the better. And you're also right about it being a fantasy. It's a Singaporean Chinese man's fantasy of erasure of our multiculturalism. One where brown bodies are invisible unless cars need to be driven and doors need to be opened.
If you are Singaporean and you think this is a win for visibility, Then you are absolutely complicit in that fantasy.
We are luxury, we are opulence and we are some kinds of freedom. But we are also caning for grafitti and chewing gum bans. And that's ours to unpack as people who care about the place we live in.
Highlighting the palatable for Hollywood is not long overdue. It is the most overdone thing in media. Kevin Kwan's Crazy Rich Asians is a narrative that is only interested in or aware of a version of us, the ones who are rich, who are beautiful, who already have the most visibility and who cannot open their own doors. And if that is what you think we should be in the world's eyes, then we have to do better. How hungry are we to be acknowledged that we will take any kind of representation at all, even the kind that makes entire communities amongst us invisible? We deserve better. We have to believe that.
This is a win for Asian Americans on the back of my city, my country which is the only home I have. And they may not care about it, but I do.
I love it so much my heart breaks that this is what the world is going to see of us. Because we are infinitely more than this damaging erasure and superficiality, we are so much infinitely more.
so anyway, i'm just here inadvertently witnessing this slow-moving trainwreck in my irl circles while the more non-asian side like on tumblr is all sunshine, roses and representation.
posted by cendawanita at 11:50 PM on April 25, 2018 [4 favorites]
(for a bit more context about the 'more indian' aside: Singaporean Indian actor told he is not “Indian enough” in Jack Neo’s movie)
posted by cendawanita at 11:58 PM on April 25, 2018
posted by cendawanita at 11:58 PM on April 25, 2018
To those who have asked what the appeal is:
First of all, I LOVE CHICK LIT. I think Bridget Jones's Diary is a work of genius. I read everything Sophie Kinsella and Marian Keyes come out with. So that's where I'm personally coming from, and it likely is not where you're coming from, and that's fine! Part of reading chick lit, I've found, is being able to overlook a certain amount of shallowness and woodenness to get to that juicy, juicy drama. And that definitely comes into play here: Astrid (other than her clothes) is booooring. (And you can tell from the writing that the author really loves her, and sometimes it's like, Okay, dude, enough.) Rachel is boring once she's outlived her use as a viewpoint character for the Americans. Nick is yawn. The characters I personally love the most are the ones who are desperately insecure: Kitty, Eddie, Eleanor.
Second, I've also spent my life reading Asian American literature, and in books, Asian Americans do one thing really, really well: We suffer. We're internment-camp resisters and railroad laborers and second-generation kids struggling under the yoke of their immigrant parents, picture brides and bullying victims and manongs getting evicted from the I-Hotel. Striking migrant laborers. Abuse victims. Families who can't express their love. I was excited to read Don Lee's The Collective (which is about a group of young Asian American artists) but there was SO MUCH SUFFERING in that book, my God. So, this is not really fair at all because a lot of the stuff in Crazy Rich Asians really does play into stereotypes that Asian Asians are saddled with. But from where I sit, seeing Asians crashing a $300,000 car or selecting a Birkin bag from among dozens in a climate-controlled walk-in closet was kind of revelatory. No one ever lets me be shallow and bad in literature! I feel like a kid staying up past my bedtime.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:30 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
First of all, I LOVE CHICK LIT. I think Bridget Jones's Diary is a work of genius. I read everything Sophie Kinsella and Marian Keyes come out with. So that's where I'm personally coming from, and it likely is not where you're coming from, and that's fine! Part of reading chick lit, I've found, is being able to overlook a certain amount of shallowness and woodenness to get to that juicy, juicy drama. And that definitely comes into play here: Astrid (other than her clothes) is booooring. (And you can tell from the writing that the author really loves her, and sometimes it's like, Okay, dude, enough.) Rachel is boring once she's outlived her use as a viewpoint character for the Americans. Nick is yawn. The characters I personally love the most are the ones who are desperately insecure: Kitty, Eddie, Eleanor.
Second, I've also spent my life reading Asian American literature, and in books, Asian Americans do one thing really, really well: We suffer. We're internment-camp resisters and railroad laborers and second-generation kids struggling under the yoke of their immigrant parents, picture brides and bullying victims and manongs getting evicted from the I-Hotel. Striking migrant laborers. Abuse victims. Families who can't express their love. I was excited to read Don Lee's The Collective (which is about a group of young Asian American artists) but there was SO MUCH SUFFERING in that book, my God. So, this is not really fair at all because a lot of the stuff in Crazy Rich Asians really does play into stereotypes that Asian Asians are saddled with. But from where I sit, seeing Asians crashing a $300,000 car or selecting a Birkin bag from among dozens in a climate-controlled walk-in closet was kind of revelatory. No one ever lets me be shallow and bad in literature! I feel like a kid staying up past my bedtime.
posted by sunset in snow country at 9:30 AM on April 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
AngryAsianMan on Twitter: "White Privilege: your romantic comedies do not spark passionate intra-community debates about representation, four months before the film's release."
posted by ChuraChura at 11:22 AM on April 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 11:22 AM on April 26, 2018 [7 favorites]
It is insane here and well hidden, the wealth difference. We have one of the world's highest GINI coefficients under a veneer of meritocracy in a tiny city so you have kids living hand to mouth with kids getting $500 a week pocket money 'theoretically' equal.
One of my siblings loved the book for the nostalgia, it just gives me hives. My kid is getting bullied because we live in public housing instead of landed property and the wealth problems here are - they're so tied to exploitation and racism more than industry that it's hard for me to see the book or the trailer and not get angry. And I love the actors! Still hopeful it'll deliver.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:08 PM on April 26, 2018
One of my siblings loved the book for the nostalgia, it just gives me hives. My kid is getting bullied because we live in public housing instead of landed property and the wealth problems here are - they're so tied to exploitation and racism more than industry that it's hard for me to see the book or the trailer and not get angry. And I love the actors! Still hopeful it'll deliver.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:08 PM on April 26, 2018
Tangentially, it reminded me of some of my conversations with an Irish friend of mine, over representation and how Irish-Americans romanticise and exoticise the country. And comparatively, they've had this problem a lot more than we're about to have. So it's kinda like that. They find the rendition of Ireland nonsensical in all these fluffy rom-coms but they're movies by and for Americans. Same here. So yeah, have at it, and everyone on this part of the water gets the need for representation, and go have fun. But like that AAM tweet, there will be discourse, because a key part of the promo is all about how much it represents Asians. Be clear. Not Asians. Asian-Americans.
I hear you about the suffering trope though, sunset in snow country. Idk about Japanese pop culture but there is a commonly visited trope in a lot of South/Southeast Asian pop culture about how that's why homeland is best and why the American/Western Asian will regret and the happy ending is them moving to Asia, with the local love interest that showed them the truth. It sounds as self-congratulatory as described. I just realised considering the author of the book, he played into that trope too.
posted by cendawanita at 5:35 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
I hear you about the suffering trope though, sunset in snow country. Idk about Japanese pop culture but there is a commonly visited trope in a lot of South/Southeast Asian pop culture about how that's why homeland is best and why the American/Western Asian will regret and the happy ending is them moving to Asia, with the local love interest that showed them the truth. It sounds as self-congratulatory as described. I just realised considering the author of the book, he played into that trope too.
posted by cendawanita at 5:35 PM on April 26, 2018 [1 favorite]
it's also a generational thing. I've met endless older Vietnamese people who tell me to get a good paying job here, take what I know and then go back, find a nice wife (yes, really), and help "rebuild" the country. Like, we're not getting any part of that corrupt, fake-communist government back, but they romanticize anyway.
But there are many Vietnamese-American produced movies that plays into that trope, and they know exactly who their target audience is.
posted by numaner at 12:57 AM on April 27, 2018
But there are many Vietnamese-American produced movies that plays into that trope, and they know exactly who their target audience is.
posted by numaner at 12:57 AM on April 27, 2018
Sangeetha Thanapal, the Singaporean who coined the term 'Chinese Privilege' wrote a post about the movie.
This post is about Cr*zy Rich Asians. I've been seeing a lot of people being excited about it and I think it's because they don't know what Singapore is actually like. I understand that many in the Global North, especially Americans, have no real understanding of the complications and nuances of race in other parts of the world. So I’ll give you some context.
Singapore is a terribly racist country. The state embarked on a form of eugenics in the 1980s meant to displace its indigenous population and replace it with settler colonial Chinese people. Minorities find it hard to gain employment. Muslim women in hijabs are kept out of certain civil service jobs because of their headwear. (This is government policy that the state has openly defended). Malay-Muslims are told they cannot be trusted in the military because they are Muslims with loyalty to other states. This is really ironic when you think about the fact that Malays are indigenous to the land. Indian construction workers are killed on site due to lax labour safety laws, and instead of being sent home to their families, are buried underneath those skyscrapers y’all love so much about Singapore. Minorities are stereotypically represented or never represented. Chinese people wear Indians in ‘brown face’ and Hinduism is considered something to mimic for Halloween. Minorities are called slurs on a daily basis, and Chinese people proudly say they are racist and don’t care to be otherwise. Scholarships are reserved for the Chinese, heck, entire schools are reserved for them, and these are paid for with taxpayers money. Imagine a purely white school only for white kids that the state pays for with your money, and then tells you that these schools are necessary for the future of America. Cos the Chinese supremacist state of Singapore constantly tells us that the Chinese are what makes Singapore successful, that Malays are lazy, that Indians are violent and that only Chinese people can save Singapore.
In case you think I’m making this up, I’ll tell you a few things about myself. I am a) Singapore’s most well-known anti-racism activist. B) I have written extensively on racism in Singapore, and I coined the term and theory around what is now called “Chinese Privilege.” C) I am doing a PhD on Chinese privilege, Chinese supremacy and racism in Singapore. D) I had to run away to Australia because I was being threatened by the Singapore state with sedition for speaking out about race. (Think about the fact that Australia is safer for me than Singapore.)
So when you celebrate this movie, ask yourself who you are complicit in erasing. It is the minorities who have been told every day that we are worthless, ugly, lazy, unworthy of being represented. That we deserve to be treated as second-class citizens in our own country. You are celebrating a novel that barely made a splash in Singapore because Chinese people writing about being Chinese and rich is so fuckin' commonplace here.
What people celebrating this movie are doing is bringing a Western racial framework to bear upon a Singaporean one. Chinese people in Singapore aren’t oppressed in any way, in fact, they are the oppressors. Asians in the Global North are so happy to see themselves that they don’t care about the context in which this is happening. CRA is set in Singapore and only has Chinese people in it. This isn’t new or refreshing, this is the EVERYDAY FUCKIN LIVES OF MINORITIES. It is only diversity FOR YOU. Why should Western Chinese representation come at the expense of minorities in Singapore? Why is it that so many POCs in America, Europe and Australia lack such compassion for the suffering of minorities in the Global South?
If a movie was set in NY and it only featured white people, you’d call it racist. This is set in Singapore, a country where already Chinese people are the only ones who are visible and represented, and where Chinese people hold all economic, social and political power, a state of affairs this movie perpetuates. Yet, this is perfectly all right for many of you.
I have been triggered in so many ways these past few days seeing how little Asians in the West care to research or read the things they unthinkingly support. This is my life that y’all think should come second to your ability to be represented.
Seeing post after post on what an achievement this movie is really difficult for us because you’re doing what Singaporean Chinese have done to us our whole lives-erase us, talk over us and dismiss us.
For god’s sake, for once in your lives, think about the consequences of the things you support.
You're not the only people who deserve to be represented, and when you support this movie, that's actually what you are saying.
posted by cendawanita at 7:44 AM on April 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
This post is about Cr*zy Rich Asians. I've been seeing a lot of people being excited about it and I think it's because they don't know what Singapore is actually like. I understand that many in the Global North, especially Americans, have no real understanding of the complications and nuances of race in other parts of the world. So I’ll give you some context.
Singapore is a terribly racist country. The state embarked on a form of eugenics in the 1980s meant to displace its indigenous population and replace it with settler colonial Chinese people. Minorities find it hard to gain employment. Muslim women in hijabs are kept out of certain civil service jobs because of their headwear. (This is government policy that the state has openly defended). Malay-Muslims are told they cannot be trusted in the military because they are Muslims with loyalty to other states. This is really ironic when you think about the fact that Malays are indigenous to the land. Indian construction workers are killed on site due to lax labour safety laws, and instead of being sent home to their families, are buried underneath those skyscrapers y’all love so much about Singapore. Minorities are stereotypically represented or never represented. Chinese people wear Indians in ‘brown face’ and Hinduism is considered something to mimic for Halloween. Minorities are called slurs on a daily basis, and Chinese people proudly say they are racist and don’t care to be otherwise. Scholarships are reserved for the Chinese, heck, entire schools are reserved for them, and these are paid for with taxpayers money. Imagine a purely white school only for white kids that the state pays for with your money, and then tells you that these schools are necessary for the future of America. Cos the Chinese supremacist state of Singapore constantly tells us that the Chinese are what makes Singapore successful, that Malays are lazy, that Indians are violent and that only Chinese people can save Singapore.
In case you think I’m making this up, I’ll tell you a few things about myself. I am a) Singapore’s most well-known anti-racism activist. B) I have written extensively on racism in Singapore, and I coined the term and theory around what is now called “Chinese Privilege.” C) I am doing a PhD on Chinese privilege, Chinese supremacy and racism in Singapore. D) I had to run away to Australia because I was being threatened by the Singapore state with sedition for speaking out about race. (Think about the fact that Australia is safer for me than Singapore.)
So when you celebrate this movie, ask yourself who you are complicit in erasing. It is the minorities who have been told every day that we are worthless, ugly, lazy, unworthy of being represented. That we deserve to be treated as second-class citizens in our own country. You are celebrating a novel that barely made a splash in Singapore because Chinese people writing about being Chinese and rich is so fuckin' commonplace here.
What people celebrating this movie are doing is bringing a Western racial framework to bear upon a Singaporean one. Chinese people in Singapore aren’t oppressed in any way, in fact, they are the oppressors. Asians in the Global North are so happy to see themselves that they don’t care about the context in which this is happening. CRA is set in Singapore and only has Chinese people in it. This isn’t new or refreshing, this is the EVERYDAY FUCKIN LIVES OF MINORITIES. It is only diversity FOR YOU. Why should Western Chinese representation come at the expense of minorities in Singapore? Why is it that so many POCs in America, Europe and Australia lack such compassion for the suffering of minorities in the Global South?
If a movie was set in NY and it only featured white people, you’d call it racist. This is set in Singapore, a country where already Chinese people are the only ones who are visible and represented, and where Chinese people hold all economic, social and political power, a state of affairs this movie perpetuates. Yet, this is perfectly all right for many of you.
I have been triggered in so many ways these past few days seeing how little Asians in the West care to research or read the things they unthinkingly support. This is my life that y’all think should come second to your ability to be represented.
Seeing post after post on what an achievement this movie is really difficult for us because you’re doing what Singaporean Chinese have done to us our whole lives-erase us, talk over us and dismiss us.
For god’s sake, for once in your lives, think about the consequences of the things you support.
You're not the only people who deserve to be represented, and when you support this movie, that's actually what you are saying.
posted by cendawanita at 7:44 AM on April 28, 2018 [5 favorites]
"If a movie was set in NY and it only featured white people, you’d call it racist."I'd like to point out that white people make romcoms set in New York with all white characters (no, "unnamed Japanese tourist" does not count as a character) all the time and the discussion of those films is never about how racist the creators and viewers are. The problem, as usual, is that Asian representation in Hollywood is so scant that even our fluffy romances have to be everything to everybody.
posted by mbrubeck at 9:41 AM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
(Which is not to diminish the need for diverse representation, but just to say that it would be nice if we could have diverse representation across many films, instead of just a tiny handful.)
posted by mbrubeck at 10:23 AM on April 28, 2018
posted by mbrubeck at 10:23 AM on April 28, 2018
sunset in snow country: from where I sit, seeing Asians crashing a $300,000 car or selecting a Birkin bag from among dozens in a climate-controlled walk-in closet was kind of revelatory. No one ever lets me be shallow and bad in literature! I feel like a kid staying up past my bedtime.
God yes, exactly this. I'm currently reading Chinese-Canadian author Madeleine Thien's Do Not Say We Have Nothing. It's about a young Chinese-Canadian girl who learns the story of how her classical musician/artist/writer parents suffered through Mao's Cultural Revolution in China. This is exactly what happened to my grandmother's brother, right down to him being a musician.
It's a good book and Extremely Relevant to my family, but it's really different from the experience of going to see a romantic comedy where the characters are richer and more beautiful than I am. The latter is more like watching Downton Abbey or a Jane Austen movie (which I also love!). Except I never get to watch Jane Austen movies with people who look like more beautiful versions of me and my Chinese family.
Mind you, I'm not saying Kevin Kwan is Jane Austen, or that there's no merit to the criticism from Singaporeans and other South Asians. But I'm going to enjoy watching this precisely because it's the kind of rom com white people get to see themselves in much more frequently.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:00 AM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
God yes, exactly this. I'm currently reading Chinese-Canadian author Madeleine Thien's Do Not Say We Have Nothing. It's about a young Chinese-Canadian girl who learns the story of how her classical musician/artist/writer parents suffered through Mao's Cultural Revolution in China. This is exactly what happened to my grandmother's brother, right down to him being a musician.
It's a good book and Extremely Relevant to my family, but it's really different from the experience of going to see a romantic comedy where the characters are richer and more beautiful than I am. The latter is more like watching Downton Abbey or a Jane Austen movie (which I also love!). Except I never get to watch Jane Austen movies with people who look like more beautiful versions of me and my Chinese family.
Mind you, I'm not saying Kevin Kwan is Jane Austen, or that there's no merit to the criticism from Singaporeans and other South Asians. But I'm going to enjoy watching this precisely because it's the kind of rom com white people get to see themselves in much more frequently.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:00 AM on April 28, 2018 [2 favorites]
The discussion of those films is never about how racist the creators and viewers are.
That has not been my experience in the last few years as the whole idea of what representation means has become mainstream, and I mean mainstream in this part of the world. I don't have conversations with white people when it comes to why Asian-Americans need representation. I had to be very contextualized when explaining why Heimdall being played by a black actor is a good thing. I had to be very insistent that it's irrelevant to 'us' if Lucy Liu isn't an 'attractive' Chinese person (by our standards). You remember this infamous NYT piece, about what's the point of Asian superheroes? This was written by a Malaysian who absolutely did not get it. My socmedia feeds were a disaster that Christmas because we run in similar circles and so many ppl went on my shit list. People like me batted for people like you. People whose posts I've been sharing batted for ppl in the west. But hey, don't mention it.
posted by cendawanita at 6:47 PM on April 28, 2018
That has not been my experience in the last few years as the whole idea of what representation means has become mainstream, and I mean mainstream in this part of the world. I don't have conversations with white people when it comes to why Asian-Americans need representation. I had to be very contextualized when explaining why Heimdall being played by a black actor is a good thing. I had to be very insistent that it's irrelevant to 'us' if Lucy Liu isn't an 'attractive' Chinese person (by our standards). You remember this infamous NYT piece, about what's the point of Asian superheroes? This was written by a Malaysian who absolutely did not get it. My socmedia feeds were a disaster that Christmas because we run in similar circles and so many ppl went on my shit list. People like me batted for people like you. People whose posts I've been sharing batted for ppl in the west. But hey, don't mention it.
posted by cendawanita at 6:47 PM on April 28, 2018
Sorry. I don't mean to say nobody is discussing these issues. I've been part of those conversations too, frequently, including here on MetaFilter. I'm just saying that when someone writes "If a movie was set in NY and it only featured white people," the "if" seems weird to me because this is something that literally happens all the time. And newspaper coverage of, say, a John Cusack romcom does ignore its racial issues, because "Hollywood movie has all-white cast" is simply not seen as news (although at least it's becoming less normal).
posted by mbrubeck at 8:47 PM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by mbrubeck at 8:47 PM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I’m so conflicted about this movie. It is very much Not My Thing, and I think the points raised about non-Chinese Singaporean representation are valid.
But I know that if this movie tanks, there is a zero-percent chance that movie execs will say, “Maybe movies about super-rich people are a bad idea,” or “Maybe we should have insisted on more non-Chinese Singaporean representation.” What they will say is, “Movies centered Asian and Asian-American characters/actors are box office poison.” So I feel sort of obligated to go see it as supporting one form of representation, while feeling really crummy about the lack of other types of representation. Gah.
posted by creepygirl at 9:05 PM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
But I know that if this movie tanks, there is a zero-percent chance that movie execs will say, “Maybe movies about super-rich people are a bad idea,” or “Maybe we should have insisted on more non-Chinese Singaporean representation.” What they will say is, “Movies centered Asian and Asian-American characters/actors are box office poison.” So I feel sort of obligated to go see it as supporting one form of representation, while feeling really crummy about the lack of other types of representation. Gah.
posted by creepygirl at 9:05 PM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
"If a movie was set in NY and it only featured white people,"
I know this was a massive topic of conversation with Fantastic Beasts because it was set in 1920s NY and yet there were like 2 non-White people there. Sure, one of them's the American Minister for Magic type, but she barely gets to say anything. No Harlem Renaissance!
posted by divabat at 9:44 PM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
I know this was a massive topic of conversation with Fantastic Beasts because it was set in 1920s NY and yet there were like 2 non-White people there. Sure, one of them's the American Minister for Magic type, but she barely gets to say anything. No Harlem Renaissance!
posted by divabat at 9:44 PM on April 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Go and watch it. But don't let the production off the hook, especially during the promo circuit within Asian-American circles. (I can't help but include Constance Wu in this, because she has been a strong advocate on representation all this while, and yet, this). It's a long road with backsliding, so I get it. But asking hard questions and putting the fear of... something was why even MCU has the cheek to claim they stand for diversity too.
posted by cendawanita at 9:53 PM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 9:53 PM on April 28, 2018 [3 favorites]
What they will say is, “Movies centered Asian and Asian-American characters/actors are box office poison.”
This is also part of my conflict. I hate that we have to bargain so much for a glimpse of progress.
Every time there was another martial arts movie starring an Asian guy, I have to juggle with "well, at least we're getting a starring role!... even though it's another stereotype.." Or the nerds, or the sheepish friend, or the [insert more stereotypes]. But if I support it, maybe eventually we'll get more roles in Hollywood! (and we have! not a whole lot, but some!)
I so so so get Sangeetha Thanapal's perspective, because I know a little bit about the struggles of Vietnamese people against the economic invasion of China, and it's only like 1/10th of what the minorities in Singapore are going through and I'm already mad about that.
I also don't have a platform to stand up and yell "HEY MAYBE DON'T GO WATCH THIS TONE-DEAF MOVIE ABOUT A COUNTRY WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT JUST TO SATISFY OUR EXPECTATIONS OF REPRESENTATION IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, AND DEMAND HOLLYWOOD TO MAKE SOMETHING FOR US HERE IN AMERICA THAT REFLECTS US."
So really, I actually don't know right now whether or not I'll watch this damn movie.
posted by numaner at 11:40 PM on April 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is also part of my conflict. I hate that we have to bargain so much for a glimpse of progress.
Every time there was another martial arts movie starring an Asian guy, I have to juggle with "well, at least we're getting a starring role!... even though it's another stereotype.." Or the nerds, or the sheepish friend, or the [insert more stereotypes]. But if I support it, maybe eventually we'll get more roles in Hollywood! (and we have! not a whole lot, but some!)
I so so so get Sangeetha Thanapal's perspective, because I know a little bit about the struggles of Vietnamese people against the economic invasion of China, and it's only like 1/10th of what the minorities in Singapore are going through and I'm already mad about that.
I also don't have a platform to stand up and yell "HEY MAYBE DON'T GO WATCH THIS TONE-DEAF MOVIE ABOUT A COUNTRY WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT JUST TO SATISFY OUR EXPECTATIONS OF REPRESENTATION IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, AND DEMAND HOLLYWOOD TO MAKE SOMETHING FOR US HERE IN AMERICA THAT REFLECTS US."
So really, I actually don't know right now whether or not I'll watch this damn movie.
posted by numaner at 11:40 PM on April 29, 2018 [2 favorites]
Ok lah on a more light-hearted note: the trailer, but 100% more singaporean English.
(But srsly, Michelle Yeoh was right there. Yes her accent is Anglophone Ipoh Malaysian by way of Hong Kong, but it's at least from the same region)
posted by cendawanita at 9:18 AM on May 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
(But srsly, Michelle Yeoh was right there. Yes her accent is Anglophone Ipoh Malaysian by way of Hong Kong, but it's at least from the same region)
posted by cendawanita at 9:18 AM on May 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh my god that Singlish dub, cendawanita. That was priceless!
Wah you very bad leh
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:59 AM on May 2, 2018
Wah you very bad leh
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:59 AM on May 2, 2018
Okay, now I have gone down the rabbit hole of Singlish dubs on YouTube and this one is hilarious: Singlish Frozen
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:16 AM on May 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 1:16 AM on May 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
(Thanks to this post I just read the book. It was kind of amazing and overwhelming, and as a pasty white American dude from the Midwest I loved the fact that I don't know what elements are factual and what are totally made up so that uncertainty made it just....exhilarating.)
posted by wenestvedt at 6:32 AM on May 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by wenestvedt at 6:32 AM on May 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
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