May 25, 2002

9:19 AM

mexican military incursion in u.s. soilAn INS agent saw a mexican military vehicle 5 miles inside u.s. territory, he says he was fired by the mexicans. He also says this is "an act of war". I'm mexican and i really doubt about this. It has to be a joke! What do you people think about this?
posted by trismegisto (27 comments total)

Hmm. I think it is very difficult to tell where you are sometimes... I'm guessing, even if true, that this is a mistake.
posted by hadashi at 9:20 AM on May 25, 2002

I say the U.S. should surrender and to make peace, give Mexico the state of Texas.
posted by Postroad at 9:38 AM on May 25, 2002

This article says it's the planning phase of a fullscale invasion by the Chinese! Thankfully, we have Bill O'Reilly to protect us. ;->
posted by insomnia_lj at 9:38 AM on May 25, 2002

Nonono. We give the Jews the state of Texas. The Texans go to New Mexico. We give NM to the Mexicans. Three problems solved for the price of one!
posted by five fresh fish at 9:43 AM on May 25, 2002

I think Pravda ought to stop getting news stories out of hundred year old newspapers. That "Americans Attacked on American Soil" thing came out of a Hearst paper, did it not?

And Postroad, can we please throw in the former Governor? ;)
posted by ilsa at 9:43 AM on May 25, 2002

Remember the Alamo! Remember the Maine! Let's Roll!
posted by Optamystic at 9:49 AM on May 25, 2002

more on the topic
posted by mikhail at 9:51 AM on May 25, 2002

An INS agent saw a mexican military vehicle 5 miles inside u.s. territory, he says he was fired by the mexicans.

This is nonsense. The Mexicans have absolutely no authority to fire an INS agent.

As to the incursions, the last thing in the universe I would see in this is some sort of bizarre "act of war"; more likely there are occassional joyriders who decided to get a little scampish on a patrol. Are we supposed to think that an invasion force of one humvee was sanctioned by the Mexican government as an advance force for a massive invasion comprised of 4 trucks, a jeep, and 6 ox-cart?
posted by Perigee at 9:51 AM on May 25, 2002

The Sierra Times is not exactly the New York Times:

I've noticed something else -- that I'm being forced to defend him as a result of action by one particular kind of people, those who hate blindly. Tom Laden -- oh, sorry, I meant to say Osama bin Daschle . . .no, that can't be right . . .oh, well, they are all running together with one goal, that being to tear down the President. One other characteristic is that they don't see how their tactics are backfiring. The military wing of the Blind Hate Movement picked the wrong city to flang airplanes at (New Yorkers have never been known to just roll over and give up), and the political wing doesn't see that the American people just aren't buying their attempts to smear Duhhh-bya.

posted by mecran01 at 9:52 AM on May 25, 2002

insomnia_lj, the article you posted is dated december 2000! this has been happening for a long time, chinese soldiers in mexico?… i should have noticed this before
posted by trismegisto at 9:59 AM on May 25, 2002

this will eventually lead to the militarization of the border by the u.s. government, putting another obstacle to the mexicans that want to get to work in u.s.
posted by trismegisto at 10:15 AM on May 25, 2002

The Chinese are coming. One if by land, two if by sea?
posted by sadie01221975 at 10:19 AM on May 25, 2002

Washington Times. Denver Post.

This has been going on for years. In each case there are conflicting accounts from the INS, from politicians and from the Mexican government as to what happened and where.

In most cases, however, Rep. Tancredo has not hesitated to make use of the incident to advance his own agenda. Tancredo is not interested in a war with Mexico or in discussion of sovereignty. He is blatantly using these incidents to portray the Mexicans as disrespectful and a problem to be contained. He has not hesitated to propose a "solution" to this problem - namely that the borders be more fully contained and more INS patrols be created.

The Mexican patrols are not near this border because they are joy-riding. They are engaged usually in the pursuit of drug trafickers - something we have exhorted them to do. Rather than let their quarry escape, they have perhaps become overzealous.

We are supposed to be fighting this drug war together. What is needed now is greater coordination between the mexican military and the INS. Tancredo's ridiculous cries about "acts of war" is unlikely to allow us both to make progress towards this end.
posted by vacapinta at 10:32 AM on May 25, 2002

A very obscure trivia bit: several years ago, the US govt discreetly hired a small band of Apaches with *serious* weaponry to patrol the southern border of the Barry M. Goldwater range in the SW corner of AZ. Most known for its "Hell's Trail", this is one of the most inhospitable places in the continental US (just north of the "Tortured Desert" in Mexico.)

I truly doubt that there are any news stories on them, as it was only mentioned locally with the scantest of detail. Haven't heard a word about them since.

You might be surprised at how lethal five Apaches can be.

N.B.: they don't carry handcuffs.
posted by kablam at 10:49 AM on May 25, 2002

(I heard that Michigan wants Toledo back)
posted by clavdivs at 1:08 PM on May 25, 2002

The link posted by Mikhail has this to say:
The Mexican government is "practically convinced" that the gunman and his accomplices were mistakenly taken for Mexican soldiers, ...."We're afraid it could be a case of drug traffickers dressed up as soldiers," said Rodriguez Hernandez in a telephone interview with EFE from Mexico City.

Sounds a lot more likely to me.
posted by justlooking at 1:25 PM on May 25, 2002

clavdivs:

That is a filthy lie!
posted by hadashi at 1:39 PM on May 25, 2002

I don't know much about Apaches vs. INS.

I know about Apache vs. IIS though!
posted by anser at 3:43 PM on May 25, 2002

justlooking, an unfortunately even more likely scenario is that they were soldiers nominally engaged in drug trafficking pursuit, but dropping the last word of their mission is much more lucrative.

There's actually a reason our guys don't coordinate more with their guys.

As for the presence of Chinese, it was long ago expected that the takeover of Hong Kong would result in an exodus of the Triads who were not hooked into mainland black markets, and at the same time illegal Chinese immigration to the US has increased, providing opportunity in Mexico for Triad involvement in both trades.

kablam: perhaps you're thinking of the Shadow Wolves?
posted by dhartung at 5:22 PM on May 25, 2002

Thinking about it...if it really happened, the Posse Comitatus Act wouldn't be in effect if we wanted to do anything about it. IOW, we wouldn't arrest the border-incursors; we'd have the Army or the Air Force turn 'em into a smoking crater.

Not that I have anything personal against Mexicans, you understand. Just pointing out the proprieties.

OBTW...the "We've got to secure our border from the ignorant unwashed furriners who want to make Mexico part of the United States" crowd are gonna have a field day with this.
posted by alumshubby at 8:23 PM on May 25, 2002

dhartung: hmmm. The Tohono O'Odham are the "Papago" tribe, and though a lot of this is their turf, the south of Tucson res, I'm not sure if this is the same operation.
Admittedly, there are some serious warrior tribe contenders in the vicintity, including the recent arrival (c. 1910) Yaquis from Mexico. But Apaches are something else.
These folks were uniformed and carrying standard issue equipment. From what I recall the Apaches were sent out with what amounted to human hunting licenses and little else. They wore traditional garb and went for high-powered rifles instead of M-16s.
There are big chunks of the B.M. Goldwater Range where I wouldn't take an ATV and there is unexploded ordnance aplenty. There is absolutely no one in there on any legitimate business unless they have obtained permission from the Marine Corps, which is not given lightly.
Again, the mission of these men was not drug interdiction, it was drug smuggler interdiction, with prejudice.
posted by kablam at 9:47 PM on May 25, 2002

I don't get it. Why would the Russians want the United States and Mexico to go to war with each other?
posted by kfury at 11:59 PM on May 25, 2002

kablam: I am completely endeared to your romantic image of "human hunters" without handcuffs. What kind of comic books have you been reading?
posted by dhartung at 4:59 AM on May 26, 2002

dhartung: Hell, I grew up with Apaches. They see themselves as just above Mexicans on the food chain.

As far as your disbelief that the US government would ever do something so unethical as to use killers against drug smugglers, have you been following the Columbian elections? The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC) , aka The School of the Americas?
posted by kablam at 9:50 AM on May 26, 2002

Remember the NIMBY nuclear waste disposal FPP the other day? I suggest the waste be laid down in a twenty-mile long no-mans-land along the border. Voila, both problems solved.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:59 AM on May 27, 2002

dhartung - I find Norton's absolute faith in the total moral right and good of the US to be charmingly naïve, in a Norman Rockwell kind of way.
posted by NortonDC at 9:41 AM on May 27, 2002

Similair missions were conducted in Vietnam cross border into Laos. With extreme prejudice. And when it was over.. ann never mind.. the horror, the horror
posted by stbalbach at 6:12 PM on May 27, 2002