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June 2, 2018 4:27 AM Subscribe
Looking for Life on a Flat Earth
The universe is an egg and the moon isn't real: notes from a Flat Earth conference
I watched an entire Flat Earth Convention for my research—here’s what I learned
Inside a Flat Earth convention, where nearly everyone believes Earth isn't round
Why do people still think the Earth is flat? - BBC News
Phillip Is Absolutely Baffled by the Men Who Believe the Earth Is Flat | This Morning
The universe is an egg and the moon isn't real: notes from a Flat Earth conference
I watched an entire Flat Earth Convention for my research—here’s what I learned
Inside a Flat Earth convention, where nearly everyone believes Earth isn't round
Why do people still think the Earth is flat? - BBC News
Phillip Is Absolutely Baffled by the Men Who Believe the Earth Is Flat | This Morning
It’s amazing the lengths people will go to to believe they’re still the centre of the universe.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:05 AM on June 2, 2018 [20 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 5:05 AM on June 2, 2018 [20 favorites]
1) People will believe pretty much anything if enough people around them believe that same thing
2) The smaller the group, the farther afield their beliefs can drift
3) The Magic of the Internet™ exposes tiny groups with bizarre beliefs to a large pool of people seeking meaning, and allows those groups to present themselves as larger and more established than they really are
4) Stupid ideas snowball into mass movements, all hardened in opposition to the "mainstream"
5) And thus: 2018
posted by ook at 5:35 AM on June 2, 2018 [33 favorites]
2) The smaller the group, the farther afield their beliefs can drift
3) The Magic of the Internet™ exposes tiny groups with bizarre beliefs to a large pool of people seeking meaning, and allows those groups to present themselves as larger and more established than they really are
4) Stupid ideas snowball into mass movements, all hardened in opposition to the "mainstream"
5) And thus: 2018
posted by ook at 5:35 AM on June 2, 2018 [33 favorites]
There is also a definite religious component to some forms of flat earthism. Almost inevitably there are some Oh No Ross and Carrie episodes about a flat-Earth group which pick up on this. But what's really fun is creationists arguing that people who believe in a flat Earth are making a mistake when they assume that the Bible is literal. The cognitive dissonance that some people are able to tolerate is just astonishing.
posted by howfar at 6:14 AM on June 2, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by howfar at 6:14 AM on June 2, 2018 [6 favorites]
“We’re not trying to express any degree of intellectual superiority,”
Well, duh.
posted by Splunge at 6:24 AM on June 2, 2018 [6 favorites]
Well, duh.
posted by Splunge at 6:24 AM on June 2, 2018 [6 favorites]
People have flown in from around the globe to attend my flat earth conference!
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:26 AM on June 2, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:26 AM on June 2, 2018 [16 favorites]
If the earth were round, chemtrails would be curved. Q.E.D.
posted by kozad at 7:00 AM on June 2, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by kozad at 7:00 AM on June 2, 2018 [9 favorites]
A failure of education, plain and simple. And more evidence of the kinds of trouble caused by a culture that undermines scientists, researchers, educators, and journalists at every turn by putting them on the same level as liars, fraudsters, manipulators, and charismatic idiots.
posted by chasing at 7:05 AM on June 2, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by chasing at 7:05 AM on June 2, 2018 [5 favorites]
Yeah, seriously, ook has made the point I was going to. Small disparate groups with odd flange theories are beginning to coalesce into a pretty large mass of ignorati that taken as a whole, are beginning to present themselves as a serious problem for a progressive society.
I think it starts with the slow evisceration of public education that has been ongoing since the 1970’s in the name of tax reform, but which is ultimately intended to create a more ignorant, fearful & malleable public, which benefits the ultra-wealthy who have bought the legislators who slash education funding to their own ends. It’s a win-win for them. More money now through lower taxes, & a less intelligent public increasingly inable to coalesce against the hierarchy they seek to perpetuate.
We the common people are divided amongst ourselves, distracted from the hand that’s in everyone’s pocket, and YouTube is not helping, because so many people have not been taught to think critically about misinformation.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:10 AM on June 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
I think it starts with the slow evisceration of public education that has been ongoing since the 1970’s in the name of tax reform, but which is ultimately intended to create a more ignorant, fearful & malleable public, which benefits the ultra-wealthy who have bought the legislators who slash education funding to their own ends. It’s a win-win for them. More money now through lower taxes, & a less intelligent public increasingly inable to coalesce against the hierarchy they seek to perpetuate.
We the common people are divided amongst ourselves, distracted from the hand that’s in everyone’s pocket, and YouTube is not helping, because so many people have not been taught to think critically about misinformation.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:10 AM on June 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
Growing up in an "earth is 6000 years old" church and then going through a major change in beliefs has helped me realize that, yes, it does all come down to which group of people you trust. The flat-earthers are not wrong about that.
On the radio the other day, someone was talking about why unconscious bias training programs are often counterproductive: If you feel like someone who's more powerful than you (e.g. the corporation you work for) is trying to force you to believe something, you're more likely to conclude that it's a lie.
That has me wondering how much this is not a failure of education, but of inequality, perceived and real. The bizarre sects which challenge the ruling ideas of the ruling classes almost always arise among the dissatisfied and disrupted poor. People much more powerful than them - whether it's the Roman state, the Catholic Church, or British imperialists - are telling them what to believe, and that power imbalance produces skepticism about what's being taught.
posted by clawsoon at 7:20 AM on June 2, 2018 [13 favorites]
On the radio the other day, someone was talking about why unconscious bias training programs are often counterproductive: If you feel like someone who's more powerful than you (e.g. the corporation you work for) is trying to force you to believe something, you're more likely to conclude that it's a lie.
That has me wondering how much this is not a failure of education, but of inequality, perceived and real. The bizarre sects which challenge the ruling ideas of the ruling classes almost always arise among the dissatisfied and disrupted poor. People much more powerful than them - whether it's the Roman state, the Catholic Church, or British imperialists - are telling them what to believe, and that power imbalance produces skepticism about what's being taught.
posted by clawsoon at 7:20 AM on June 2, 2018 [13 favorites]
(When I mentioned opposition to the Catholic Church, I wasn't thinking of the Lutherans and Anglicans so much as the ephemeral sects in The Pursuit of the Millennium. The author of the article didn't dig for millenarianism, but I bet if he had he would've found it. "Jesus is coming back soon, and when he does all of you elites who lied to me and made me feel bad are going to be sorry.)
posted by clawsoon at 8:06 AM on June 2, 2018
posted by clawsoon at 8:06 AM on June 2, 2018
[…] one attendee during lunch showed me his favourite proof of the Flat Earth – a video showing a side-view from a plane-tracking software, created by Mark Sargent."… but not for too long."
“It shows the height of the planes as they fly”, he told me, excitedly. “If the Earth was round, we’d see their heights all change as they fly over the curve!”
“Isn’t it measuring altitude?” I asked, “So that’s the elevation above the ground. If the ground curved, and the plane’s path naturally curved with it, it would stay the same distance from the ground – which is exactly what we see in that video, don’t we?”
He paused for a moment.
“That’s interesting”, he said, “I’ll have to think about that”.
posted by farlukar at 8:19 AM on June 2, 2018 [11 favorites]
Maybe, in the giant computer simulation we all live in, some people's instances have a flat-earth version, and some instances have a spherical-earth version.
Have you ever thought about that?
No- you only think about yourself.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:26 AM on June 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
Have you ever thought about that?
No- you only think about yourself.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:26 AM on June 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
In the last link, the flat-earthers claim you can see the tip of the pyramids from France. Which you can't. But why didn't the hosts call them on this?
It's still a fun link. Something about a laser on a lake, but not on the whole lake because it's huge. That sort of sums up the whole thing.
posted by mumimor at 9:42 AM on June 2, 2018
It's still a fun link. Something about a laser on a lake, but not on the whole lake because it's huge. That sort of sums up the whole thing.
posted by mumimor at 9:42 AM on June 2, 2018
Oh man, I just ran into one of these folks yesterday. I was out to lunch with three other physics/astro profs, right next to the university we work at, and this guy at another table interrupts our conversation with “hey, are you academics? What sort?”
The amazing thing about this guy to me wasn’t that he was attempting to use logic starting from false premises, or that he didn’t understand some basic physical principles, but instead that he presented himself not as a flat-earther, but instead as a person who “thought flat earthers were wrong and wanted to be able to tell them why”.
It was remarkably effective, and two of my colleagues spent the rest of our lunch trying to explain to the guy why various flat earth arguments were wrong- until one of them said “hey you know you just aren’t going to be able to convince those people, they will always have a counter argument.”
Then it was pretty clear where this guy stood- and it explained why he had been spouting all of the flat earth arguments. (One of my colleagues later found a YouTube video that contained every argument the guy mentioned).
I didn’t want to engage the guy (I love talking physics with random people who are interested and willing to learn, but asshats who are just into confrontation and who derail someone else’s working lunch are not my cup of tea). But what I wanted to say at the time was the problem isn’t lack of logic, it’s rather starting with the premise “the earth is flat”. As any logician knows, from a false statement you can get anywhere you like. And they do, for sure.
posted by nat at 9:49 AM on June 2, 2018 [8 favorites]
The amazing thing about this guy to me wasn’t that he was attempting to use logic starting from false premises, or that he didn’t understand some basic physical principles, but instead that he presented himself not as a flat-earther, but instead as a person who “thought flat earthers were wrong and wanted to be able to tell them why”.
It was remarkably effective, and two of my colleagues spent the rest of our lunch trying to explain to the guy why various flat earth arguments were wrong- until one of them said “hey you know you just aren’t going to be able to convince those people, they will always have a counter argument.”
Then it was pretty clear where this guy stood- and it explained why he had been spouting all of the flat earth arguments. (One of my colleagues later found a YouTube video that contained every argument the guy mentioned).
I didn’t want to engage the guy (I love talking physics with random people who are interested and willing to learn, but asshats who are just into confrontation and who derail someone else’s working lunch are not my cup of tea). But what I wanted to say at the time was the problem isn’t lack of logic, it’s rather starting with the premise “the earth is flat”. As any logician knows, from a false statement you can get anywhere you like. And they do, for sure.
posted by nat at 9:49 AM on June 2, 2018 [8 favorites]
In my comment above, I forgot what I came in to write: until this FPP, I didn't believe flat-earthers really existed. I mean any child can see that the earth is round, and as written in one of the links, people have always known it.
But now, after looking at more than one youtube video, I am convinced that flat-earthers exist and I have questions.
posted by mumimor at 10:10 AM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
But now, after looking at more than one youtube video, I am convinced that flat-earthers exist and I have questions.
posted by mumimor at 10:10 AM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Flat-earthers sure do exist. I had a conversation with one on Instagram, because I had used the hashtag #firmament. That's a word they like. What percentage of people think the world is probably flat? It's hard to say, but maybe 3%, coincidentally the same percentage of scientists who don't think climate change is real. That is if you believe in coincidences, which 0% of YouTube Fringe Fanatics do.
posted by kozad at 10:24 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by kozad at 10:24 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
In the last link, the flat-earthers claim you can see the tip of the pyramids from France. Which you can't. But why didn't the hosts call them on this?
To be fair he says Pyrenees... and Phil comes back with 'you can't see the base of the them'
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:41 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
To be fair he says Pyrenees... and Phil comes back with 'you can't see the base of the them'
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:41 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
To be fair he says Pyrenees... and Phil comes back with 'you can't see the base of the them'
Did he? The Pyrenees are in France?! Sorry if I've missed a joke but this is all so confusing to me.
I could actually, on an emotional level, get the argument that no one wants to live on a tiny ball hurtling through space. But then I wonder what they imagine is outside their snow globe or egg models. Does it make a difference if you are in a snow globe hurtling through space or on a ball hurtling through space?
posted by mumimor at 10:50 AM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Did he? The Pyrenees are in France?! Sorry if I've missed a joke but this is all so confusing to me.
I could actually, on an emotional level, get the argument that no one wants to live on a tiny ball hurtling through space. But then I wonder what they imagine is outside their snow globe or egg models. Does it make a difference if you are in a snow globe hurtling through space or on a ball hurtling through space?
posted by mumimor at 10:50 AM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
The Earth, according to Nesbitt, is more likely a diamond shape, with East-West travel facilitated by 4D space-time warps.
TIMECUBE
posted by curiousgene at 11:01 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
TIMECUBE
posted by curiousgene at 11:01 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
Did he? The Pyrenees are in France?! Sorry if I've missed a joke but this is all so confusing to me.
He did. I actually think that Phillip Schofield's point was pretty much spot on. Because, yeah, of course you can see the tops of some tall things from far away, but the reason you don't see the bottom of them is almost entirely down to the curvature of the Earth.
But I still wish we could have substituted Richard Madeley for Phillip Schofield in that interview. It wouldn't have been a better interview, far from it, in fact; it would, however, have been a much funnier interview.
posted by howfar at 11:15 AM on June 2, 2018
He did. I actually think that Phillip Schofield's point was pretty much spot on. Because, yeah, of course you can see the tops of some tall things from far away, but the reason you don't see the bottom of them is almost entirely down to the curvature of the Earth.
But I still wish we could have substituted Richard Madeley for Phillip Schofield in that interview. It wouldn't have been a better interview, far from it, in fact; it would, however, have been a much funnier interview.
posted by howfar at 11:15 AM on June 2, 2018
But what I wanted to say at the time was the problem isn’t lack of logic, it’s rather starting with the premise “the earth is flat”.
Although that is the dominating problem, there are usually gaping flaws in the reasoning that surrounds it, too, such as we see in the airplane tracker argument above.
As any logician knows, from a false statement you can get anywhere you like.
The Principle of Explosion! Paraconsistent logic does not have it, so you can make a logical system without this phenomenon.
posted by thelonius at 11:26 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
Although that is the dominating problem, there are usually gaping flaws in the reasoning that surrounds it, too, such as we see in the airplane tracker argument above.
As any logician knows, from a false statement you can get anywhere you like.
The Principle of Explosion! Paraconsistent logic does not have it, so you can make a logical system without this phenomenon.
posted by thelonius at 11:26 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
- I hate your Earth! It's the wrong shape.
- Oh dear! What shape do you usually have, then? Mickey Mouse shape? Amphibian landing craft shape?
- God, you're dumb.
posted by Dumsnill at 11:26 AM on June 2, 2018
- Oh dear! What shape do you usually have, then? Mickey Mouse shape? Amphibian landing craft shape?
- God, you're dumb.
posted by Dumsnill at 11:26 AM on June 2, 2018
Relevant RationalWiki page
There used to be a time when 80-90% of flat earth societies were pranksters (in an Ig Nobel spirit) and a tiny amount of loopy people. How times change.
posted by farlukar at 11:55 AM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
There used to be a time when 80-90% of flat earth societies were pranksters (in an Ig Nobel spirit) and a tiny amount of loopy people. How times change.
posted by farlukar at 11:55 AM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
Since we (and these Flat-Earthers, presumably) have access to near-instantaneous two-way communications, and the conventioneers come from far and wide, it seems trivially easy to video-call a few of your far-flung Flat-Earther friends at different longitudes and watch each other's sunsets together, over the course of several hours. I was originally thinking of replicating Eratosthenes' well-shadow experiment, but sunsets happening later (in a very regular and predictable way!) for people further and further west ought to be proof enough that the earth is curved and not flat.
I mean, if they really wanted to know The Truth through direct observation, rather than trust some outside authority or their gut instincts.
posted by skoosh at 11:56 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
I mean, if they really wanted to know The Truth through direct observation, rather than trust some outside authority or their gut instincts.
posted by skoosh at 11:56 AM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't think it is a lack of education etc. I think it is a personality disorder. Like Sovereign Citizens it seems more narcissistic than anything else. I also think that conspiracy people are pretty much immune to argument that their conspiracies are not true.
posted by Pembquist at 12:49 PM on June 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Pembquist at 12:49 PM on June 2, 2018 [4 favorites]
TIMECUBE
Speaking of 4 dimensions, I'm reminded of the engineers who keep sending "corrected" quack theories of relativity and quantum mechanics to physicists. Here's a half-baked theory:
- You don't believe in earth as a round ball spinning in space if it's too emotionally difficult for you to accept that you're not in the centre of the universe.
- You don't believe in relativity and quantum mechanics if it's too emotionally difficult for you to accept that there's some math and physics that you can't understand.
posted by clawsoon at 1:32 PM on June 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
Speaking of 4 dimensions, I'm reminded of the engineers who keep sending "corrected" quack theories of relativity and quantum mechanics to physicists. Here's a half-baked theory:
- You don't believe in earth as a round ball spinning in space if it's too emotionally difficult for you to accept that you're not in the centre of the universe.
- You don't believe in relativity and quantum mechanics if it's too emotionally difficult for you to accept that there's some math and physics that you can't understand.
posted by clawsoon at 1:32 PM on June 2, 2018 [7 favorites]
Good lord, that was maddening to read. That so many people genuinely belive this stuff is both disappointing and alarming.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:49 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 1:49 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
...sunsets happening later (in a very regular and predictable way!) for people further and further west ought to be proof enough that the earth is curved and not flat.
No, they have an ad hoc explanation for why the Big Light suspended over the Earth behaves that way.
These are people who, when confronted with the reality that gravity on Earth is nothing like what it would be on a massive disk, conclude that gravity is a "lie".
posted by thelonius at 1:49 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
No, they have an ad hoc explanation for why the Big Light suspended over the Earth behaves that way.
These are people who, when confronted with the reality that gravity on Earth is nothing like what it would be on a massive disk, conclude that gravity is a "lie".
posted by thelonius at 1:49 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait, you guys don't believe flat-earthers really exist, do you? Those guys are all actors paid by Big Conspiracy. I mean, those interviews were obviously filmed in a sound studio!
posted by biogeo at 2:21 PM on June 2, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by biogeo at 2:21 PM on June 2, 2018 [10 favorites]
No- you only think about yourself.
posted by TheWhiteSkull
As I am the only actual being in existence, this is defacto the only way to think. What bothers me is that I have conceived of beings who think my Earth is flat. I'll have to think about that. Of course.
posted by Splunge at 3:47 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by TheWhiteSkull
As I am the only actual being in existence, this is defacto the only way to think. What bothers me is that I have conceived of beings who think my Earth is flat. I'll have to think about that. Of course.
posted by Splunge at 3:47 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
These are people who, when confronted with the reality that gravity on Earth is nothing like what it would be on a massive disk, conclude that gravity is a "lie".
I saw one of these guys respond to a point about gravity with, "Spherecucks always have to bust out the G-word." That was the extent of his response.
Yes. Spherecucks.
posted by brundlefly at 4:36 PM on June 2, 2018 [26 favorites]
I saw one of these guys respond to a point about gravity with, "Spherecucks always have to bust out the G-word." That was the extent of his response.
Yes. Spherecucks.
posted by brundlefly at 4:36 PM on June 2, 2018 [26 favorites]
Where do they think airplanes go when they fly directly over the south pole? Do they think they are going to fly into a wall of ice?
posted by pracowity at 5:08 PM on June 2, 2018
posted by pracowity at 5:08 PM on June 2, 2018
All the pilots in the world are part of a conspiracy to lie about their flight paths, duh. Or perhaps the GPS manufacturers are the conspirators and the pilots are mislead by their instruments. Anything is possible once you've accepted the existence of centuries long global (diskal?) conspiracies involving tens of thousands of people.
posted by Pyry at 5:41 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Pyry at 5:41 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
Some small proportion of these idiots might actually believe it, but I suspect most of them are simple trolls. We all know there are millions of trolls who take great smirking joy in aggravating educated people, scientific people, logical people, anyone who claims to know better than them. They're like weekend fishermen. They dangle the bait and wait for a bite. Catch and release. Catch and release. Catch and release. The more you pull at the hook -- the bigger you are in terms of credentials and resources and lines of counterargument wasted -- the better the sport you offer them. They never get tired of it.
But whether you think they are trolls or sincere believers, just ignore them and all other conspiracy nuts. They thrive on your attention.
posted by pracowity at 6:47 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
But whether you think they are trolls or sincere believers, just ignore them and all other conspiracy nuts. They thrive on your attention.
posted by pracowity at 6:47 PM on June 2, 2018 [2 favorites]
Never really investigated into the subject but I've always assumed that at its heart Flat-Earthism was a bit of an in-joke and a fun excuse for people who enjoyed Debating Club to carry that on into later life. Not trolling so much as a sort of po-faced Devil's Advocacy intended to be enjoyed by both parties, even if one unwitting party finds themself on the frustrating "but of course it's round!" receiving end.
posted by I'm always feeling, Blue at 7:24 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by I'm always feeling, Blue at 7:24 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
I mean, So Crates would have been all over it.
posted by I'm always feeling, Blue at 7:27 PM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by I'm always feeling, Blue at 7:27 PM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
Ohhh! I think I finally grokked kayfabe.
posted by I'm always feeling, Blue at 7:30 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by I'm always feeling, Blue at 7:30 PM on June 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
Previously
I'll repeat my comment from previously:
I used to laugh at flat-earthers, but they aren't really funny when you start reading up on them. The obvious questions of "why is there a conspiracy about a round earth?" and "who's behind it?" are often "to deny the truth of the Bible" and "the Jews".
They are as worrisome as people who believe (or want people to believe) that Obama is a secret Muslim from Kenya. Though flat-earthers are often savvy enough to say "Masons" instead of "Jews" to cover their anti-Semitism.
> In fact, many notable space explorers came in for Hughes' criticism during the interview, including the "Freemason" NASA astronauts John Glenn and Neil Armstrong.
Yeah, there we go. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Masonic_conspiracy_theory
posted by AlSweigart at 12:06 AM on June 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
I'll repeat my comment from previously:
I used to laugh at flat-earthers, but they aren't really funny when you start reading up on them. The obvious questions of "why is there a conspiracy about a round earth?" and "who's behind it?" are often "to deny the truth of the Bible" and "the Jews".
They are as worrisome as people who believe (or want people to believe) that Obama is a secret Muslim from Kenya. Though flat-earthers are often savvy enough to say "Masons" instead of "Jews" to cover their anti-Semitism.
> In fact, many notable space explorers came in for Hughes' criticism during the interview, including the "Freemason" NASA astronauts John Glenn and Neil Armstrong.
Yeah, there we go. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Masonic_conspiracy_theory
posted by AlSweigart at 12:06 AM on June 3, 2018 [8 favorites]
brundlefly: Yes. Spherecucks.
To be fair, people I love have been fucked by gravity.
posted by clawsoon at 3:25 AM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
To be fair, people I love have been fucked by gravity.
posted by clawsoon at 3:25 AM on June 3, 2018 [3 favorites]
I guess they must believe that all pilots are part of the conspiracy.
I actually looked at the tfes.org site after I posted my last comment, and realized that there isn't a quick fix – their explanations for traveling sunsets have so many holes (the Sun revolves around an imaginary axis over the North Pole – why? The Sun doesn't really disappear below the horizon, it just appears to vanish as it recedes due to perspective – but it stays the same apparent size throughout, unlike every other receding object? etc.), but it takes more than one step to refute them, and the root problem is that they've latched onto this one idea (the Earth is flat!) and will not let go of it, no matter what. I mean, they have to believe in a global, centuries-old international conspiracy, surviving the rise and fall of religions and empires, to fool all of humankind about ... the shape of the Earth?! I mean, not even considering the ample, not-hard-to-confirm physical evidence that surrounds us every day, that's a very hard pill to swallow. But they apparently find it easier to believe that, than that Earth is big and round.
This may be the most telling part of that Guardian article:
posted by skoosh at 8:15 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
I actually looked at the tfes.org site after I posted my last comment, and realized that there isn't a quick fix – their explanations for traveling sunsets have so many holes (the Sun revolves around an imaginary axis over the North Pole – why? The Sun doesn't really disappear below the horizon, it just appears to vanish as it recedes due to perspective – but it stays the same apparent size throughout, unlike every other receding object? etc.), but it takes more than one step to refute them, and the root problem is that they've latched onto this one idea (the Earth is flat!) and will not let go of it, no matter what. I mean, they have to believe in a global, centuries-old international conspiracy, surviving the rise and fall of religions and empires, to fool all of humankind about ... the shape of the Earth?! I mean, not even considering the ample, not-hard-to-confirm physical evidence that surrounds us every day, that's a very hard pill to swallow. But they apparently find it easier to believe that, than that Earth is big and round.
This may be the most telling part of that Guardian article:
Looking around the room, I could see knowing nods, as people recognised themselves in each question. The questions, Nesbitt explained, were taken from a checklist used to determine whether someone is in a cult. The implication seemed lost on the audience. [emphasis mine]Convincing a Flat-Earther that the Earth really is round is probably excellent practice for cult deprogrammers.
posted by skoosh at 8:15 AM on June 4, 2018 [2 favorites]
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posted by parki at 4:34 AM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]