We're gonna need it.
June 19, 2018 7:08 PM   Subscribe

Canada's senators have voted to legalize recreational marijuana. It'll be about 8-12 weeks before you'll be able to walk into your local licensed retailler to buy, though.
posted by seanmpuckett (120 comments total) 19 users marked this as a favorite
 
In Ontario, at least, recreational sales will be made through the Ontario Cannabis Store, a venture of the province's alcohol retailer, LCBO.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:14 PM on June 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Senators have voted to pass the federal government's bill legalizing recreational marijuana by a vote of 52-29, with two abstention

My first thought was where were the other 22 senators?? That is like almost a quarter of the Senate missing. Off celebrating early?
posted by saucysault at 7:14 PM on June 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Oh shit! Goddamn it, as a public health official in Washington state I wish they would have consulted me first.

Canada, brace yourself for a whirlwind societal epidemic of ...

...well, nothing really. Maybe a decrease in alcohol-related ER visits. And one less excuse for imprisoning people of color disproportionately for decades.

I stand ready to help you deal with this oncoming public health disaster. May god have mercy on your unfailingly polite souls.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 7:23 PM on June 19, 2018 [87 favorites]


In Washington state, it took about a year and a half between the passage of I-502 and the first shops opening up. How is Canada getting its system up and running so fast?
posted by tracknode at 7:24 PM on June 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Finally, a G-7 country has come to its senses and realized that they are not going to eradicate cannabis by making it illegal. You think that the history of the US Prohibition and common sense would have guided them long ago, but better late then never.

Now if only their neighbors to the south could learn the same lesson.
posted by wolpfack at 7:25 PM on June 19, 2018 [7 favorites]


In Ontario at least the law has a potential loophole - people can only smoke in their residence, not outdoors or in cafes, but multi-unit dwelling like apartments and condos could potentially ban smoking from the entire building. So you could end up in a situation where it's illegal to smoke outside, illegal to smoke in a place of business, and against the rules for many people to smoke in your own home.
posted by thecjm at 7:25 PM on June 19, 2018 [7 favorites]


My town, Banff AB, has banned public consumption, likening it to public consumption of alcohol. Meanwhile smoking tobacco in public remains legal.
posted by furtive at 7:28 PM on June 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Pot makes me stupider. I’m curious to see whether there will be a measurable cognitive decline in Canada as it becomes more prevalent or if it’s just me.

Right but.. it.. wears off for you, yes? Or are your Smart Points (SP) dropping and you can't find a way to recover them?
posted by curious nu at 7:31 PM on June 19, 2018 [9 favorites]


As a cyclist, I can smell when passing drivers are smoking. A lot of them are, seemingly many more than previously. That's scary, but not as scary as cell phones.

Also there's a dispensary on every corner in BC. If you thought the collapse of the cupcake bubble was bad, hang on to your knickers!
posted by klanawa at 7:32 PM on June 19, 2018 [9 favorites]


It is illegal to smoke cannabis publicly in Washington. This policy means that it is considered somewhat rude to do so and there are now some really great vaporizers and edibles available, or so I’ve heard. Society’s collapse nevertheless feels imminent.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 7:33 PM on June 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


When I drove from WA to Vancouver a few years ago, they gave our car a more thorough search than I've ever gotten going between the US and Mexico back in the 80s and 90s. I assume it was because of legal pot, but maybe also opioids. There was nothing for them to find, but it took them a good long time to do their bullshit.

Now that will end, maybe.
posted by hippybear at 7:35 PM on June 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


(that was meant to sound kind of joke-y but maybe it sounds shitty in which case I apologize! people generally seem to get stupider on any substance but then are fine when they're not, so I'm not sure why there'd be some great cognitive nosedive)

It's super-heartening to see Canada do this. It'll be a cycle or two before the US catches up, unfortunately, but legit: thanks, Canada!
posted by curious nu at 7:45 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


Is this a big deal?

Canada has had medical use & decriminalization, for quite some time...doesn't everybody who uses it already have access, like in California?
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 7:46 PM on June 19, 2018


I live in Oregon. I haven’t observed any increase in consumption. Aside from the dispensaries everywhere, you wouldn’t notice anything had changed.

Personally, I was never a frequent user, and I’ve become maybe a once-a-month user. I don’t think very many people who wanted to use marijuana were inhibited by prohibition.
posted by chrchr at 7:47 PM on June 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


How is Canada getting its system up and running so fast?

The short answer is that the feds threw the retailing logistics to the provinces several months ago and said "Here's the rough deadline for when we think we'll pass the federal legislation, and the pending legislation is going to leave sales decisions up to you, within certain parameters that are defined federally."

So the provinces started scrambling to come up with the framework/logistics of their own systems, which are going to vary (within the restrictions set out by the federal legislation) from province to province.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:49 PM on June 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


As regards the Ontario Cannabis Store, the logo rollout was kinda amusing.

Also, why are all of their press release headlines in all caps?

Like so:

FIRST 14 MUNICIPALITIES SELECTED FOR CANNABIS STORES

Relaaaaaax, man.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 7:54 PM on June 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


Aside from the dispensaries everywhere, you wouldn’t notice anything had changed.

Rural areas too. The growers have been buying up land, fencing it off, and housing prices have spiked ridiculously in places like Medford/Grants Pass. Was doing some work down there last summer and there was a period where a local construction contractor couldn't get some required fencing for a state project because the local supplies were essentially out.

I'd agree I don't see more consumption, tho, even amongst The Kids. More open/casual about it, no one's stressed over weed, which is good.
posted by curious nu at 7:55 PM on June 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


In the Spokane area, the main change I've noticed is that, suddenly, over 50% of the in-city billboards became ads for pot stores. I mean, there are a LOT of them. I've thought about doing a photo essay because I don't even drive through all the parts of town and they are everywhere that I drive, surely more exist than I know about.

Oh, and radio ads for pot stores are amusing, too. "Hi, we're the Sativa Sisters. Do you have any questions? Come in and talk to us and we'll give you answers!" (spoken in the same tone as "call this sex line" commercials were back in the 90s)
posted by hippybear at 8:01 PM on June 19, 2018 [7 favorites]


doesn't everybody who uses it already have access, like in California?

Maybe almost everybody, judging by how my McGill-student neighborhood smells, but I somehow doubt my Blue Cross Blue Shield of Iowa insurance is going to cover me if I attempt to be evaluated for medical weed. (I had legitimately been looking forward to legalization because although I'm completely a square I had been curious about whether CBD would do anything for my migraines; alas, I think I have to go back home to Iowa before I can find out.)
posted by Jeanne at 8:03 PM on June 19, 2018


So you could end up in a situation where it's illegal to smoke outside, illegal to smoke in a place of business, and against the rules for many people to smoke in your own home.

Not if your landlord is a prog-rock bassist!
posted by avocet at 8:05 PM on June 19, 2018 [15 favorites]


In the Spokane area, the main change I've noticed is that, suddenly, over 50% of the in-city billboards became ads for pot stores. I mean, there are a LOT of them. I've thought about doing a photo essay because I don't even drive through all the parts of town and they are everywhere that I drive, surely more exist than I know about.

On our first trip to Spokane a couple of years ago, this was jarring to me because I grew up right across the border from Michigan, and as a frequent visitor to the U.S., I understood the country to be all about The War on Drugs. Driving around Spokane and seeing pot stores and LOTS of billboards for them was kinda "Whoa."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:08 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


From Oregon, the only annoying side effects are that it's impossible to fully police public smoking which means the stank of weed is everywhere, and also a bunch of people whose identity seems based on "smoker" which is only odd because you'd think this would wear off after it was legal and no longer like, counter-culture.
posted by nakedmolerats at 8:08 PM on June 19, 2018 [8 favorites]


And I still can't stroll down to the corner store to get a fucking case of beer because Ontario LCBO and Beer Store bullshit.
posted by Fizz at 8:10 PM on June 19, 2018 [10 favorites]


So you could end up in a situation where it's illegal to smoke outside, illegal to smoke in a place of business, and against the rules for many people to smoke in your own home.

Smoking is bad for lungs. It should be avoided.

There are, however, alternative methods for making cannabinoids bio-available. I recommend mashing it into a fine paste and injecting it between your toes.
posted by Construction Concern at 8:12 PM on June 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Canada has had medical use & decriminalization

We've had medical marijuana for a good long while, though the distribution hasn't been great. Decriminalization is new though. It had been proposed a few times but never passed. In theory, pot will now be more widely available and legal but each province has their own particular take on what that will look like.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:16 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


It's on paper prohibited to smoke weed in the open here, in the same way you are theoretically not supposed to have an open container, but I smell it everywhere and the police seem to completely ignore it. I walk through a couple of busy intersections every day, and at rush hour a significant percentage of cars smell like weed. Like with smoking in public, people are apparently not at all concerned about getting caught.

The billboards everywhere are indeed funny, I had not expected that when legalization was happening.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:19 PM on June 19, 2018


The media is saying that we are the first major industrial nation to legalise recreational marijauna (is that true?). So yeah a big deal.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:20 PM on June 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


My town, Banff AB, has banned public consumption, likening it to public consumption of alcohol. Meanwhile smoking tobacco in public remains legal.

Well let's be fair, my stinky second-hand smoke won't make anyone goofy, it just gives people cancer.
[MrBurnsHarmlessTobacco.Gif]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:22 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


AFAIK, Uruguay is the only other country in the world to have full legalization?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:22 PM on June 19, 2018


Pot memories:

1) seeing Rush's Moving Pictures tour and having the concert production pumping out concert smoke but having the crowd pour out more smoke than that and the entire arena ending up stoned because it totally is possible to hotbox 15,000 people if enough people work at it.

2) seeing NIN in Spokane a few tours ago and between the opening act (can't remember who right now) and NIN starting some Angry Goatee Rent-a-Badge got up on the bottom of the rail between the crowd and the stage and shouted "All of you who are smoking pot, you'd better quit it out!". There honestly wasn't much pot smoking going on, compared to that Rush show.

3) Yeah, not much else, because pot kills your brain cells.
posted by hippybear at 8:23 PM on June 19, 2018 [4 favorites]


Oh Cannabis
posted by philip-random at 8:25 PM on June 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


The LCBO and Beer Store are indeed yucky monopolies but I can't help but pour one out for the lost possibility of a big cheerful sign reading only THE WEED STORE.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:26 PM on June 19, 2018 [4 favorites]


I always thought it was legal in Netherlands & Portugal but wiki says that it is only decriminalised in those countries but still technically illegal.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:27 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


Oh Cannabis yt

I haven't even clicked this link and I'm literally LOLing.
posted by hippybear at 8:27 PM on June 19, 2018 [5 favorites]


The great tragedy is that the LCBO logo actually has hops and barley and grapes in it - the OCS logo could have been that, but with weed instead.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:30 PM on June 19, 2018


Stats Canada has statistics on prices, usage, etc. I may have first seen this on Metafilter.
posted by dismas at 8:34 PM on June 19, 2018


whether CBD would do anything for my migraines; alas, I think I have to go back home to Iowa before I can find out

This is just anecdata of one, but my partner's migraines and the associated poor sleeping that would follow were alleviated by CBD. Much to our surprise.
posted by Ashwagandha at 8:34 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


Oh Cannabis

I was gonna see thee rise
But I got high

I was gonna porter la croix
Mais je me suis défoncé

I was gonna keep our land glorious and free
But I was high

I was gonna stand on guard
Until I got high

La la la la la.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 8:36 PM on June 19, 2018 [25 favorites]


Oregon's boutique-style dispensaries seem pretty great overall; I hope they can approximate the retail experience. Although it seems they will control labeling, so for example you can't make a tin of mints that looks like a normal tin of mints.

(Though I would be careful with the vape oils unless you want to risk spending 24 hours orbiting Phobos.)
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:37 PM on June 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Canada has had medical use & decriminalization, for quite some time...doesn't everybody who uses it already have access, like in California?

I have multiple medical problems, for which I take many medications, some of which are schedule 2. So I'm a bit curious about adding marijuana alongside things like caffeine and alcohol, as part of the mild mind-altering substances that are part of the landscape of my whole self.

But.

Not right now, under current circumstances. Softening of rules notwithstanding, while there's still a thread of anti-drug policy floating around there's just no way I'm going to do anything at all that puts me on an official list, or has any risk of my getting busted and losing eligibility for other medicines.

Proper legalization is still an important step.
posted by traveler_ at 8:42 PM on June 19, 2018 [4 favorites]


A wonderful benefit of legalization in Oregon is that there is now an enormous variety of strains available, including high CBD strains that are mostly relaxing and not very trippy at all.

mathowie’s podcast ep with Alex Cox is an interesting discussion of marijuana use in the post prohibition landscape.
posted by chrchr at 8:46 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


Also there's a dispensary on every corner in BC. If you thought the collapse of the cupcake bubble was bad, hang on to your knickers!

Surely this could resuscitate the cupcake industry?

Also, a question: my recollection is that when the location of the first OCS in Toronto was announced, there was public gnashing of teeth and rending of garments that this was located only 450m from Blantyre Public School. I seem to recall that Premier Wynne then bizarrely decreed that no cannabis store would be closer than 450 metres to a school, leading the Toronto Star to publish a map of the city with 900-metre circles centred on each school. This revealed that essentially the only places an OCS could operate were on the Island (all parklands) the Exhibition grounds (parking lots and shuttered buildings most of the year) or in the airport (boy howdy problems) and maybe a couple of patches in industrial parks.

Has the incoming DoFo regime weighed in on this?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 9:08 PM on June 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


The difference between “ubiquitous illegal use” and “medicinal but easy to acquire access” and “total legalization” is that there are a whole lot of normal people with families and jobs and positions of power who had great experiences with cannabis in college who now feel free to consume weed legally whereas previously they were consuming alcohol or Valium or gambling or sex legally to self medicate the anxiety of modern living. Even if just a few of those judges, and doctors, and cops turn to dope instead of Jaeger shots, the effect on society is huge.

I’m not saying widespread cannabis use is a good idea, but it’s a minimally harmful alternative to widespread alcohol abuse, stimulant abuse, etc. And I look forward to the day when every bank branch manager is high all the time questioning reality instead of coked out figuring out how to exploit your money in order to get laid.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:48 PM on June 19, 2018 [30 favorites]


I do think cannabis legalization has made public smoking more prevalent again in California, although of course nothing like the old tobacco days. I find it annoying to be at a public gathering, say, a street fair, and have people's smoke wafting in my face. It's definitely a worthwhile tradeoff - I am 1000% positive about legalization, but it's just a cultural practice that has come along with decriminalization and now legalization. I think vaping in public (tobacco or cannabis) is also a weird thing because while it's not smoke - I don't love vape vapor right in my face.

Anyhow, good job Canada!
posted by latkes at 10:01 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


When recreational pot was legalized here in Oregon, I sensed a collective sigh of relief. I've been here for most of my life and the general sense, even among non-pot users, is that continued prohibition is a complete waste of energy and money. If you don't use it yourself, your best friend or girlfriend or boss does and still manages to live a productive existence.

Not to mention the lives that are destroyed -- not by marijuana, but by prohibition.

The U.S. states and countries that are doing it right pour many of the revenues into media and publicity campaigns to keep kids from using it, which is exactly right. There's a lot of research showing that pot isn't great for developing brains. Here in Oregon, teen use seems to have gone down.

Now if we can just commute the sentences of those who have been tossed into prison because of prohibition...
posted by vverse23 at 10:07 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


I think this is a disaster. In BC, a government authority will actually license and distribute cannabis. This is going to shut out the grey-area grow ops that supply cannabis to the quasi-legal dispensaries now.

I think the quality of the pot will decrease. I also think it will help preserve a black market for quality cannabis, in turn reintroducing organized crime.

The genius of City of Victoria's approach (City of Victoria has the most enlightened approach to pot in Canada) to pot at the moment is that, by tolerating and then licensing dispensaries, police have been able to focus on businesses and grow ops connected to organized crime.

Maybe the official product will be high quality, but I doubt it.
posted by JamesBay at 10:10 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


Re: cannabis use and health effects: I'm excited for legalization to open the door to more high quality research on this. There are negative health effects of frequent/high dose cannabis use. Apparently the cyclic vomiting thing is pretty common. Whenever a patient comes into the ER I work in with intractable nausea the providers do check if they are frequent cannabis users. Anecdotally, per a psychiatrist I worked with and again anecdotally per my observations, long-term high-dose cannabis use seems to worsen/possibly cause severe anxiety. I hope some real research gets done on this to see if I'm just having confirmation bias about this. In any case, we know with certainty that cannabis is a million times safer than alcohol.

Regarding CBD, I feel irritable at how hyped it is right now, as my friends and loved ones profess it does everything from treating psychiatric disorders to curing cancer. But no doubt high CBD strains and CBD extracts do seem to be a much safer, milder, sedative than anything on the pharmaceutical market.

I can also anecdotally attest that of the all the psych meds I put my poor, violently demented mother on - a high CBD cannabis capsule twice a day had the fewest troubling side effects of anything we tried, and seemed to be mildly helpful. When she was at her most anxious and physically assaultive, cannabis did not cut it and we switched to antipsychotics, but before she got to that point, it really helped. She was able to just relax and at worst started craving cookies. I hope one day we have enough evidence that if research does confirm it's use for this population, it can come into widespread use for this. I hated sedating my mom. It was dangerous - caused her to fall and become incontinent and barely responsive. Perhaps I could have instead tried a higher dose of cannabis - thrown in some edibles - but I was overwhelmed trying to figure it all out and the facility she is in was not going to administer weed infused chocolates or whatever.

Anyway, it's nice with all the horrors of the world right now to hear that such a big country as Canada just made such a sane choice.
posted by latkes at 10:14 PM on June 19, 2018 [13 favorites]


Canada has had medical use & decriminalization, for quite some time...doesn't everybody who uses it already have access, like in California?

No. I live in a small metropolitan region of about 350,000 people. There are 13 municipalities in the region, and only one of them, the downtown core (City of Victoria) permits "dispensaries" or pot shops.

At first, City of Victoria police board directed police to tolerate pot shops, and these shops were set up on virtually every corner. It was a boon for the downtown core following several years of a retail slump, thanks to Amazon and online shopping.

City council next started controlling the number of stores by issuing them licenses; there were a limited number of licenses.

Meanwhile, pot shops have not been tolerated in the surrounding municipalities. At all. So people have to travel to the downtown core to purchase weed and so on.

Besides Victoria, I believe City of Vancouver (as opposed to Metro Van) was the only other city in BC that permitted pot shops.
posted by JamesBay at 10:16 PM on June 19, 2018 [2 favorites]



I think the quality of the pot will decrease. I also think it will help preserve a black market for quality cannabis, in turn reintroducing organized crime.


This has not been the case in Washington. In fact, I’ve tossed out a lot of leftover dope from pre-legalization and I’ve come to appreciate how different strains produce different effects. Pre-legalization you had little control over what you smoked. Now, if you talk to the salesperson at the potshop about what you’re looking for, you’re much more likely to get something that suits your “needs.”
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:27 PM on June 19, 2018 [8 favorites]


As far as I know we're allowed to grow 4 plants, so that's a thing, just for gardening-wise funtimes.
I have a bad history with pot, in that, without fail, it's produced either an immediate I HAVE TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE OR I WILL DIE FOR CERTAIN-feeling, or 10 minutes of holy shit we totally get each other laughter followed by I HAVE TO GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE OR I WILL DIE FOR CERTAIN-feelings and then me hiding and people worriedly calling my name out loud. So I haven't done it for reals in a long time, excluding cheap little shitty fake tokes where you duck outside at a bad Christmas party or whatever.
But still I want to grow my 4 government-allotted plants and raise them with pride for my country and maybe someday I will try again to smoke this herb in the hopes that it will calm me and provide an alternative to the many, many delicious cans of Ontario beer that I consume.
posted by chococat at 11:08 PM on June 19, 2018 [8 favorites]


It's cold in Canada right. You blow the smoke up the chimney or gas wall heater flue. Somebody has already designed that to carry noxious fumes safely away, you just need a tube from the hardware store.

But really, vape pens/cartridges. You can crack open a medicine bottle with 3.5g of weed and skank up the whole apartment. Decent vape pen is like custom blend tea or such and doesn't smell any worse that AXE Body Spray. They've extracted the stuff, mixed the stuff, tested the stuff, and there's a little label that tells you dosage and percentages. You don't quite get that with the herb.

(there's still something to be said about passing around the joint/pipe/bong being it's own thing.)

Yay Canada! If only you weren't way up north where it gets cold....
posted by zengargoyle at 1:29 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Steering the convo back more towards Canada, this is really very interesting. I haven’t smoked pot in years but I remember it as being very helpful for insomnia. I like having a more natural way to combat that. I have never tried it for my anxiety so I’d like to explore that too. It’ll be nice to do legally.
posted by Kitteh at 2:05 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


MetaFilter: an alternative to the many, many delicious cans of Ontario beer that I consume.
posted by wenestvedt at 3:15 AM on June 20, 2018 [8 favorites]


The slow drips and drabs way the Ontario government is rolling this out means the black market will survive for quite a while - nowadays, pot gets delivered to the house via an app/text message. You can often pick the strain and pay for it without cash on hand. The customer experience has been damn-near perfected - now you don't have to invite your pot dealer in and have him creep on your lady friends. You can watch them pull up and meet them at the curb.

The notion I, living a 10-minute drive from downtown Ottawa (5.1kms away) am going to get in my car in winter and drive to the one location that the LCBO has allotted for a city of 1.1 million people to buy their weed is absurd. I'm almost never a "let the private sector handle it" type, but the LCBO's proven time and time again that they just aren't motivated by the customer's needs and so our new premier gets to pick a precarious position amongst conservatives - either support the black market and big government and appease the social conservatives with this awful approach or piss off the Killjoys while eradicating the black market by allowing the private sector to go legit.
posted by notorious medium at 3:34 AM on June 20, 2018 [4 favorites]


I can't wait for the call-ins on next spring's Gardening with Ed Lawrence on the CBC radio.
posted by Mary Ellen Carter at 4:49 AM on June 20, 2018 [15 favorites]


Softening of rules notwithstanding, while there's still a thread of anti-drug policy floating around there's just no way I'm going to do anything at all that puts me on an official list, or has any risk of my getting busted and losing eligibility for other medicines.

To my eyes, this is a real advantage of full recreational legalization as it was implemented here. You show your ID at the pot shop to confirm you are of legal age, but there is no list, no "weed cards," no doctor's prescriptions, nothing that creates a paper trail tied to you any more than buying beer puts you on any kind of list. Canada does healthcare very differently than the US (and better!), but regardless there are still going to be lots of people with jobs where they might not want to be holding a weed card or medical prescription for weed. Open access just works better.

The question of how good the quality will be if the provincial government is doing the growing is interesting. Here, the quality (and people's expectations of quality) have gone way up, but the model is different, with private companies getting licensed to produce. Weed is super easy to grow, so as long as they choose some decent strains it should still be better than random street corner weed, but possibly not as good as the boutique stuff unless they get serious about it.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:55 AM on June 20, 2018 [3 favorites]


Softening of rules notwithstanding, while there's still a thread of anti-drug policy floating around there's just no way I'm going to do anything at all that puts me on an official list, or has any risk of my getting busted and losing eligibility for other medicines.

In Ontario they're not opening that many retail stores and if you're not nearby one the other option is to mail order. From a web storefront run by Shopify. Whose servers holding your order history may or may not be located in the United States.

I'm going to pass on that option.

I can't wait for the call-ins on next spring's Gardening with Ed Lawrence on the CBC radio.

That will be amazing.
posted by thecjm at 6:11 AM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


This has been a good counterpoint for events in the UK, which officially categorises cannabis of being of no medicinal value while simultaneously being one of the major medicinal cannabis product exporters on the planet. Most (if not all) of the EU allows medicinal use, of course, and there have been countless investigations, committees and reports that this would be a good thing here, but the government has been completely intransigent because of the terrible harm cannabis does, it's a gateway drug, it's super-potent these days, it encourages criminality, etc, etc, etc.

However, this has been unsustainable as medicinal use has become commonplace abroad, with parents taking kids overseas for treatment with particularly harsh epilepsy that is (a) life-threatening and (b) only effectively controllable with cannabis. Then they come back, their medicine is confiscated, and their children start to die. As a result, the Home Office has had to issue some super-special-doesn't-prove-anything licences for cannabis prescriptions, and has eventually had to convene a super-special-doesn't-prove-anything clinical committee which will handle the licences.

Meanwhile, an ex-leader of the Tories has said 'FFS, let's just legalise the stuff, everyone knows this is all nonsense", to which the forces of 'no, it's terrible, it'll ruin the nation' have regrouped in opposition. But it gets ever less convincing, and with Canada about to prove that no it doesn't, one hopes anew for sanity.
posted by Devonian at 6:37 AM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


A few random observations/anecdotes:

- a few months ago I was at a birthday party for a friend of my sister's. There were a lot of people there I've known through her for years, and if any of them were potheads they were keeping it on the down-low. But now? Most of the kitchen chatter was about what they were smoking, how they were smoking or otherwise ingesting it (the birthday boy had at least three difference devices, all of which looked like Star Trek props), oils, butters, cookies, brownies, etc.. A woman I work with recently just casually let it drop in conversation that she takes a tiny piece of brownie every night to help her sleep. Friends of my parents started growing their own last year. My MOM, who God bless her is the squarest person on Earth, is talking about trying it (in cookie form) once it's legal. They're selling pot cookbooks at Shopper's Drug Mart. Any sort of counterculture stigma weed once had is pretty much dead. Who's smoking weed in Canada? EVVVERRYONNNNNNNEEEEEE!!!!!

- re. the quality/potency of the medical weed; a friend's dad recently got a prescription to help with some shoulder pain and wound up with a strain named "Capilano" with (copying from a text here) 9.2 mg/ml. That number means nothing to me because I haven't really smoked weed since the mid-2000s because it's too strong for my liking these days (although I do like edibles and hash), but his dad (who had never smoked before) was tripping balls in a bad way the first time he tried it. I had a hard time feeling bad for him because apparently he voted for the PCs because Doug Ford isn't a "druggy" like Justin Trudeau (at this point I facepalm so hard I break my nose).

- last year my wife and I wanted to buy an Instant Pot and she thought they were being sold at Wal-Mart, so off we went to one in a mall nearby. They weren't, but when I asked the closest employee if he knew where they were he was initially confused (English was not his first language) and then pointed to the side of the building and said "Pharmacy! Pharmacy!" So I guess people were picking up their medical marijuana at Wal-Mart?
posted by The Card Cheat at 6:46 AM on June 20, 2018 [4 favorites]


Hear that people? There's no longer any reason to move to Denver! You've always wanted to live in Toronto, now there's nothing stopping you!
posted by evilDoug at 6:51 AM on June 20, 2018 [3 favorites]


Ontario's pot approach was developed by an unpopular administration that was heading for an election. They didn't want to lose votes by seeming pro-pot. They were also following their beer-in-grocery-stores strategy, where they slowly rolled out licences to businesses - seemingly so they could make announcements that more grocery stores were selling beer wherever they felt it was necessary to divert the public attention from other issues. The premier elect is very pro-business and is likely to implement a much wider distribution network than what was planned under the Liberals.
posted by PatchesPal at 6:59 AM on June 20, 2018


Maybe the official product will be high quality, but I doubt it.

Let's hope they look more to Sweden than to Utah as a model of how to run a state-run substance monopoly.
posted by acb at 7:04 AM on June 20, 2018


To be clear, no level of government is growing the weed, only regulating its production and controlling its sale (to a varying extent, province by province).
posted by there's no crying in espionage at 7:15 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Unless something has changed and I missed it (sorry, haven't been following this legislation closely), at the beginning at least only actual marijuana (i.e. for smoking) will be legal this summer, not any products (extract, tinctures, baked goods) derived from it. I'm seeing some stuff online that says that that stuff will (maybe?) be available a year from now.
posted by quaking fajita at 7:15 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


This almost certainly won't change my (very low) level of consumption, as its current legal status doesn't limit my access, but I'm irrationally excited to try growing, as someone who likes growing edible plants.

It probably won't be very cost-efficient, but my vegetable gardening isn't as frugal as I would like to believe either, and it's still fun. One day I'll break even...
posted by randomnity at 7:28 AM on June 20, 2018


Steering the convo back more towards Canada, this is really very interesting. I haven’t smoked pot in years but I remember it as being very helpful for insomnia. I like having a more natural way to combat that. I have never tried it for my anxiety so I’d like to explore that too. It’ll be nice to do legally.

My wife finds it helps with "PMS" by relieving pain and other symptoms. Only problem is that edibles have been banned in Victoria so we'll have to figure out how to make our own when our supply runs out. Neither of us like smoking and I personally don't like to alter my brain, including with alcohol, as much as I did twenty years ago.
posted by JamesBay at 7:32 AM on June 20, 2018


The premier elect is very pro-business

Ford knows nothing about how to actually run a business though. Deco Labels is also a pipsqueak of a company in the grand scheme of things , with annual sales of, at most, $7M. About the annual sales of a modest grocery store.
posted by JamesBay at 7:34 AM on June 20, 2018


Only problem is that edibles have been banned in Victoria so we'll have to figure out how to make our own when our supply runs out.

FYI this is quite easy to do but will make your house smell awful (imo) for a few hours. You can probably easily google instructions but otherwise feel free to memail me. I don't ever smoke as it hurts my lungs.
posted by randomnity at 7:43 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Having just been to Vancouver I was surprised how easy and cheap it was. I just walked into a medical place, showed two pieces of ID and was able to buy. Got 4 pre rolls of some decent stuff for $24.00.
posted by KingBoogly at 7:44 AM on June 20, 2018


Let's hope they look more to Sweden than to Utah as a model of how to run a state-run substance monopoly.

That’s pretty much how most of Canada does alcohol sales already. For all that I don’t love the idea of the government cornering the market on sin and vice, I have to admit that the Liquor Control Boatd of Ontario does a good retail experience.

And I just want to tag on to the O Canna-bis riffing above with:

True pot rat love
In all thy dudes command!

posted by rodlymight at 7:51 AM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


To add to concentrates/vape pens discussion, I think that's the form factor that will really, completely normalize cannabis use, especially as retiring Boomers discover it (room temperature vapor, no smoke, pleasant flavor, easy to titrate dosage because of near-immediate effect, portable, self-contained and clean, etc.). My sense is that this will be the last great cultural normalization that the Baby Boom generation will give us, and good for them because cannabis is a perfect soft drug for retirement and old age: analgesic and anti-inflammatory, so it eases aches and pains; easy to adjust dosage if inhaled; mood lifter; few-to-no negative physical side effects; and more.

Here in California, it's obvious that pot as an industry is pulling in tons of investment dollars, especially because our weed law doesn't allow out-of-state business to enter the market until 2023, so lots of tech dollars moved to investment in this industry a few years ago. It's wild, you can walk into a dispensary or shop once per month and notice that the range, quality and sophistication of product is growing noticeably and rapidly. (For instance, these folks make a disposable pod that connects to a battery by magnet--you just drop the pod in the slot, and inhale vapor produced by amazingly high-quality cannabis distillate, which is just essential oils extracted from the plant. No buttons to push or anything, and if you want a bigger hit, you just inhale harder. And the vapor that you exhale is near-odorless, and only smells fruity or herby anyway, not weedy.)

Canada, good for you, thank you, and as common as cannabis is now, you are going to be amazed and amused once the industry really takes off. (Like, one could do a fair bit of grocery shopping at a dispensary at this point, they sell ice cream and pizzas and cooking sauce mixes and oils and cereal and snack food and more, all infused with varying amounts of cannabis.)
posted by LooseFilter at 8:10 AM on June 20, 2018 [3 favorites]


I think this is a disaster. In BC, a government authority will actually license and distribute cannabis. This is going to shut out the grey-area grow ops that supply cannabis to the quasi-legal dispensaries now.

Well, the government isn't going to grow it itself, so why can't the grow ops sell to the newly-established government distributor?
posted by praemunire at 8:19 AM on June 20, 2018


FYI this is quite easy to do but will make your house smell awful (imo) for a few hours.

Pro tip: don't make edibles from flower, make them from concentrate. Put a couple of grams of shatter in the oven to decarboxylate (cook the H2O and CO2 out, so the cannabinoids are bio-available), and then simmer it into any oil or butter, and then use that as you wish. It works great in coconut oil added to tea, in butter used in cooking, wherever.

The best parts are: while there is a notable smell during the initial, decarb phase, it dispels very quickly and is thereafter odorless; also, if you make edibles with it, they only taste like the food, not food with that gross pot taste. Also also, it's much easier to calculate potency, bc extract/concentrate is a more consistent (and labeled) potency than flower. I hear that two grams of decent shatter (~$40 here in California) will make a dozen really nicely potent brownies.

At least, that's what I've heard.

posted by LooseFilter at 8:20 AM on June 20, 2018 [4 favorites]


I'm pro legalization, but have seen it abused. When I have, it usually means someone is using it everyday but appears to be functioning fine. I wasn't even sure this was a problem, but as an one long time daily user told me, she didn't really know her kids or husband, and they didn't really know her. Like any drug, it can become a coping method for avoiding, rather than addressing, life issues. Many abusers, like many alcoholics, seem to me psychologically arrested developmentally.

If I had my druthers, it would be socially available only in red zones, though that would be impossible to enforce. It's not even fully legal yet, and already comes in one-hitter, odorless vape delivery systems designed to look innocuous. So far though, legalization has not appeared to greatly increase usage or had any of the ill effects on society that were predicted by naysayers. It generally makes me paranoid and tired, but I've also had some good experiences.
posted by xammerboy at 8:21 AM on June 20, 2018


Here in New York, we border Ontario, Quebec, Massachusetts, and Vermont, all of which will soon have legal cannabis, New Jersey's governor made legal cannabis a plank of his platform, and the NY Department of Health is about to recommend that recreational cannabis be legalized in NY state. I'm not expecting anything to happen overnight, but I wouldn't be surprised if the legislature took action next year.
posted by uncleozzy at 8:24 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Is this a big deal?

Yes. While the provincial sales aspect is messy, it's a federal law. So unlike individual US states that have legalized/decriminalized it, profits can be deposited in bank accounts legally and moved inter-provincially without worry in Canada.

Dispensaries were still being raided by police in April of this year (according to Dankr.ca). Not everyone has access yet.

I predict that many people will buy a single baggie from the official stores, then quietly refill from local suppliers.
posted by scruss at 8:26 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


My only problem with legalization is the eyesore of dispensaries. The signage and marketing are often horrible and IMO really bring down the ascetic quality of a neighborhood. I don't think this means that they should only go into the blighted parts of the city to be out of sight.

I think the stores should fit in with the coffee shop and antique store on the same block and not look out of place.
posted by ShakeyJake at 8:45 AM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


Funny how the doomsayers once were all about how terrible it is that cannabis is smoked(!), yet are now complaining that the flowers are just too potent. Never mind that greater potency means fewer puffs and thus less risk of significant lung damage.

It's almost as if the opposition isn't based in any rational or principled view.
posted by wierdo at 8:50 AM on June 20, 2018


The premier elect is very pro-business

Doug Ford also openly courted social conservatives during the election. It seems unlikely that people who want to ban sex education are going to cheerfully support broadening access to marijuana.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 9:09 AM on June 20, 2018


really bring down the ascetic quality of a neighborhood.
I love this.

I also want to mention that if you are cooking with flowers, that decarboxylating in a turkey bag REALLY brings the smell level down, and that adding soy lecithin is a very good idea for consistency and potency.

My experiences with MMJ have been much like others have described here. Now I know what I'm getting and can choose if I want help sleeping or just distraction from pain while still being alert.

Pens and edibles will, I agree, be the real normalizing factors, as will the consistent dosages from mass-produced concentrates/oils/gummies/etc. As a very low-dose user, I was always nervous before. Will this puff take the edge off of the pain, or will I have to lie down and do nothing for a while? Edibles were too fraught to deal with regularly [though I enjoyed making them for others]. Now I know what I'm about to ingest, and can live a normal life with a small degree of added comfort, and predictable, restful sleep.

That sleep will be improved even more now that I know we're taking this one step toward greater social justice.
posted by Acari at 9:18 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Put a couple of grams of shatter

I had to google shatter because I'm clearly not hip enough, but I'm intrigued! Using regular weed works fine for me (don't really mind the taste, and the smell for one night isn't a big deal for a year+ supply) and I'm not sure how difficult/sketchy/expensive it'd be to obtain the shatter stuff here since everyone I know just uses normal weed, but maybe I'll try it out if they start selling the concentrate in stores at reasonable prices.
posted by randomnity at 9:21 AM on June 20, 2018


JamesBay: "I think this is a disaster. In BC, a government authority will actually license and distribute cannabis. [...]

Maybe the official product will be high quality, but I doubt it.
"

High quality booze is available, can't see this in the long term being any different.

JamesBay: "Ford knows nothing about how to actually run a business though. Deco Labels is also a pipsqueak of a company in the grand scheme of things , with annual sales of, at most, $7M. About the annual sales of a modest grocery store."

He is quite familiar with recreational drugs though so there is some hope.

randomnity: "FYI this is quite easy to do but will make your house smell awful (imo) for a few hours. You can probably easily google instructions but otherwise feel free to memail me."

If you have access to outside a toaster oven will prevent your place from being stunk up (while imposing the smell on your neighbours; maybe pick a cold rainy night or something).

ShakeyJake: "I think the stores should fit in with the coffee shop and antique store on the same block and not look out of place."

Full on legalization is likely to have this effect by stepping up the professionalism.
posted by Mitheral at 9:39 AM on June 20, 2018


Only problem is that edibles have been banned in Victoria so we'll have to figure out how to make our own when our supply runs out.

Sounds like there's quite a bit of regional variation. My wife & I are intrigued to try some stuff once it becomes legal, but we were thinking edibles over smoking; now I don't know what will be available in my area. Is there a roundup yet of what the patchwork of legislation and regulation looks like?
posted by nubs at 10:07 AM on June 20, 2018


"My wife & I are intrigued to try some stuff once it becomes legal, but we were thinking edibles over smoking."

Start with the lowest dosage possible, and slowly move up as you see fit; it's super-easy to have a negative experience by having too much.
posted by el io at 10:16 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Is there a roundup yet of what the patchwork of legislation and regulation looks like?

The challenge with edibles in British Columbia is that food sales are regulated by regional health authorities. For example, if you have a commercial kitchen you need to have it certified by a food inspector. There is some wiggle room for people who make jam and so on to sell at neighborhood markets, but for commercial sales -- and edibles are a commercial enterprise -- each product must be certified in some way.

The regional health authorities have decided not to allow "quasi-legal" status for cannabis. Not only is creating an oil is a complex process, one of the ingredients has not been approved by Health Canada.

Quality control is also difficult. I don't know how many times now my wife has been zonked by an edible with too much THC in it, while at other times there isn't any THC.

Presumably some of the licensed producers would theoretically be able to supply edible-grade oils and so on, but as it stands the edible segment is so complex in terms of prep, and so half-baked in terms of the sophistication of the vendors that it may take a long, long time before edibles are available reliably across Canada.
posted by JamesBay at 10:17 AM on June 20, 2018


And nevermind, it looks like I answered my own question with some digging; edibles won't be legal countrywide until 2019, so I won't worry about figuring out what's going on in Alberta/Calgary for a bit then.

On preview - cross post with JamesBay
posted by nubs at 10:17 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Ford knows nothing about how to actually run a business though.

As Mithreal mentions, Mr. Ford is well familiar with hash sales.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:21 AM on June 20, 2018 [3 favorites]


Ontario's pot approach was developed by an unpopular administration that was heading for an election.

And it appears the OCS board may be stacked with Liberal cronies (at least that's what they look like to me - I'm happy to be proven wrong).

From a web storefront run by Shopify. Whose servers holding your order history may or may not be located in the United States.

I haven't seen an official statement from Shopify about it yet but they do have servers with customer data located in Europe as well as the US. European servers wouldn't be so bad compared to the US ones. But we'll see.

Here's a bit of a breakdown of what the different provincial laws are going to look like:
CTV
Cannabis Now
Marijauna Buiness Daily
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:48 AM on June 20, 2018


A glance into my naivete happened when another couple we hang out with let us know you can buy edibles at Tyendinaga Mohawk territory about a 45 minute drive from here. I know that a lot of folks go there to buy cheaper cigarettes or gas, but I honestly didn't know that pot could be sold there. So I wonder how this legislation will affect another stream of revenue for First Nations peoples.
posted by Kitteh at 10:58 AM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


JamesBay: "For example, if you have a commercial kitchen you need to have it certified by a food inspector."

It should be noted that you can rent commercial kitchens for short periods of time (one day or evening at a time). No idea what other hoops you have to go through when legal cannabis is involved though. And it'll be different was the bill gets Royal assent. EG: my city won't issue business licences until that happens which has pretty much spiked the visible trade. There will be half a dozen people though down at By-Laws day one getting their licence once it becomes legal.

Also it is sure to evolve and I'd bet become more liberal once people see that nothing is really changing (my understanding, though I don't partake myself, is that anyone who wants weed now can get it with little hassle).
posted by Mitheral at 10:59 AM on June 20, 2018


The notion I, living a 10-minute drive from downtown Ottawa (5.1kms away) am going to get in my car in winter and drive to the one location that the LCBO has allotted for a city of 1.1 million people to buy their weed is absurd.

The plan in Ontario is that by 2020 there will be about 150 stores so eventually that will work itself out. But yeah in the interim driving across town in the middle of winter (especially in Ottawa) would suck. Locally I don't think we're getting any stores until late November / December. Hilariously, they knocked down the building where the old head shop used to be and the new OC store is going in that now vacant lot.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:10 AM on June 20, 2018


Kitteh, I know the Senate Standing Committee on Aboriginal Peoples published a report and several recommended amendments and policy changes with respect to tax collection, education, and addictions issues for First Nations, but I am not sure what happened with those amendments; given the speed of things, I suspect they were not adopted or still need to be addressed going forward. As usual, we've not followed through with what needs to happen on this front.
posted by nubs at 11:20 AM on June 20, 2018


Thanks for sharing that!

I am currently finding it bizarrely amusing that Belleville is getting an OCS before Kingston does.
posted by Kitteh at 11:24 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Not that I think there is a conspiracy about this but Belleville does have Hawkins Cheezies.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:31 AM on June 20, 2018 [11 favorites]


Alberta is going all wild west with this, with over 600 applications for a maximum of 250 private store licenses as well as online sales via the government. I have no idea what is going to happen here or where the closest retailer will be.
posted by nubs at 11:36 AM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Never had Hawkins Cheezies! But they have dairy in them so it's not likely I ever will. Godspeed, good burghers of Belleville with your OCS and your Hawkins Cheezies factory.
posted by Kitteh at 11:43 AM on June 20, 2018


Yes, sadly Hawkins Cheesies are not vegan friendly but they are gluten free so they have that going for them (if you're Coeliac). And I have it on good authority that they satisfy the munchies (should someone be so afflicted).
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:50 AM on June 20, 2018


It should be noted that you can rent commercial kitchens for short periods of time (one day or evening at a time).

Yes, that's true. I think the fundamental reason why edibles were officially banned (and the ban enforced) in City of Victoria (the only municipality at the time to allow pot shops) was because the product included cannabis, which has not been approved/permitted etc by Health Canada.

Which is why Vancouver Island Health Authority does not really allow pot gummies to be sold at the Moss Street Community Market, but you can sell your strawberry jam.

On a related note: if anyone has any resources for making edibles using oils or whatever is sold at our friendly neighborhood pot shop, lemme know!
posted by JamesBay at 11:53 AM on June 20, 2018


So, it'll be October 17.
posted by TORunner at 12:55 PM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


FYI this is quite easy to do but will make your house smell awful (imo) for a few hours.

Pro tip: don't make edibles from flower, make them from concentrate. [...]


If concentrates aren't available for you, and you don't want to make your house smell, it's probably worth investing in a sous-vide rig to infuse whatever you're looking to infuse. If you're primarily doing baked goods, butter has been the go-to, and if you seal the ingredients in a vac-bag (if you don't want to spring for a whole vac sealer, you can buy individual bags with a one-way valve that work fine if you just suck on the valve...but really, sous vide cooking is TOPS and if you're the kind of person that's looking to make your own cannabis edibles, you'd probably be interested in making some bomb-ass dinner too, so, TL:DR buy a proper sous vide setup, you'll be happy you did) and low temp them for a few hours, you'll get a potent extraction, with no aroma. Since the butter has been sealed, it will reform as a solid since no moisture has escape the process; strain and chill the butter, and you'll be all set. There are plenty of recipes over on Sous-Weed.

But I personally advise against doing this at home, because it's hard to gauge how much you're extracting, and then making into a product. Edibles and concentrates at least (should be, your local laws may vary) be tested for potency, and then its just a matter of some simple math to find out your end product potency. Edibles are really great and super fun once you've calibrated your expectation against them. We have this sort of built into the culture with alcohol: you know a glass of beer is going to do X to you while a glass of wine is going to do X+. Better to take some and have no effect and step up than to go overboard.

I'm very pro-legalization, and this is not peer-reviewed information, just an anecdote, but my wife works in the mental health field at a government agency in Oregon if someone is showing signs of substance abuse with cannabis, concentrates are basically the only thing that is abused. It's like the difference between coca leaf and cocaine; one is fine and can do no real damage the other is ripe for abuse. The concentration of it allows you to consume a silly amount of the active ingredients. That's not to 'scare' people away from concentrates, I think they have their place, but it's a complicated issue when it comes to potency and addiction. In Oregon the amount of concentrates you can purchase is staggering; 72 oz with no restriction on potency. That's just straight bananas. No one needs that much concentrate of any potency.

Regardless, potency should be taxed, not weight. The weight of the plant is just the delivery method of the active ingredient. Taxes in Oregon are the same on a gram of 5% THC cannabis, as they are on a gram of 30% THC cannabis.

And as far as vaporizers go, Grenco Science makes a reasonable, utilitarian, nice little buddy called the "G-Pen Elite" that will accept flower. It doesn't actually combust, so the smell is pretty reduced. I would feel completely fine using mine in a public space or in an apartment building, even though I don't. I've tried a few, and really, for the price and form-factor it can't be beat. My only complaint is that the battery life isn't that great, but if you throw it on a charger between uses, you're fine. If you're on the fence about spending the money, they usually have a sale around 4/20, and they go for as little as $100USD.
posted by furnace.heart at 1:03 PM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


I was kinda holding out for 10/20 so we could be somewhat consistent with current pot culture. 4/20 would be the date to usher in warm weather toking; 10/20 could be when we all hunker down in our homes for the winter and get high by the woodstove. I am disappoint.
posted by Kitteh at 1:06 PM on June 20, 2018


Another example of how our neighbors to the north have an enviable country to live in. Will we USians ever be as smart, as courageous, as compassionate, as woke and as congenial a nation as is Canada? I sure hope so! Maybe some day.
posted by Lynsey at 1:31 PM on June 20, 2018


Eh, I don’t like being high, especially with this high-THC rocket fuel people are using these days. I also quite often just pass out (after like three tokes, if anyone knows why please share!). Also don’t enjoy monosyllabic “conversations” with smokers who are just as far down their own tunnels. I’ve definitely seen people develop dependence, weirdly quickly in some cases. Have read that chronic use (over a couple of years) can deplete dopamine (increase apathy and anxiety), and there are probably going to be a few people getting unanticipated psychosis. That said, alcohol’s worse (only way to piss off a pot smoker is to take away their weed; soooo many ways with heavy drinkers), and criminalizing it was a stupid waste of resources.
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:38 PM on June 20, 2018


Oh, it's been ages since I've been high. I'm 41 now, and I think the last time might have been sometime in my late 20s. I'm curious to experiment, but am also quite wary that things have changed quite a bit in terms of pot in the last near-fifteen years.
posted by Kitteh at 1:48 PM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


The tabacky these days is definitely way wackier than it was back then! I’d plan not to go out.
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:53 PM on June 20, 2018


> Another example of how our neighbors to the north have an enviable country to live in. Will we USians ever be as smart, as courageous, as compassionate, as woke and as congenial a nation as is Canada? I sure hope so! Maybe some day.

Let me assure you that there are probably hundreds of thousands if not millions of Canadians who gaze longingly southward and pine for a day when their nation more closely resembles the United States.
posted by The Card Cheat at 2:17 PM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


I don't really partake anymore but a calibrated source of THC Would have been great when we were doing our own edibles, I remember a batch of enhanced chocolate Rice Krispies squares that were supposed to be good for only 'a slight buzz' that ended up kicking our ass.

Around here I believe they're going for 'late communist Russia' aesthetic and feel for the provincial weed stores. I wonder how long before the stores are more like the alcool equivalent which are all like 'wine and spirits are awesome, have a taste of this new product while our representative helps you select a bottle for dinner!!!'.
posted by WaterAndPixels at 2:44 PM on June 20, 2018


Will we USians ever be as smart, as courageous, as compassionate, as woke and as congenial a nation as is Canada? I sure hope so! Maybe some day

Residential schools? First Nations rezzes still not having potable drinking water in the 21st century? DoFo elected as ON premier? I mean, I could go on, but sometimes it's irritating to realize my fellow Americans don't really know anything about Canada. I love it here, I live here with my awesome spouse, but there is a lot of nasty shit and it was here before the current US crisis.
posted by Kitteh at 2:52 PM on June 20, 2018 [10 favorites]


Thanks Kitteh, for putting it better than I could. Canada has a lot of its own shit to sort, so please don't think we're better than anywhere else. We can just get stoned in the near future as we contemplate our problems.
posted by nubs at 3:11 PM on June 20, 2018 [4 favorites]


My only problem with legalization is the eyesore of dispensaries. The signage and marketing are often horrible and IMO really bring down the ascetic quality of a neighborhood.

Legalization meant that everyone has gotten super fancy here in the Bay Area.
With any luck it will be the same in Canada.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:57 PM on June 20, 2018


This almost certainly won't change my (very low) level of consumption, as its current legal status doesn't limit my access, but I'm irrationally excited to try growing, as someone who likes growing edible plants.

I just want to see our backyard squirrels off their nuts on weed.
posted by sebastienbailard at 4:06 PM on June 20, 2018 [6 favorites]


smart, as courageous, as compassionate, as woke and as congenial a nation as is Canada

Anywhere there's humans, there's gonna be problems - Canada is no different. I think the main difference is a lot of the rest of world just doesn't hear about our failures all that much but trust me (and as others point out above) when I say we have plenty.

Legalization though means we will have a little less failure. It'll mean we'll see less young people and minorities in jail (or worse) for carrying a bit of pot. Hopefully the government will have the courage to free those currently in jail for pot related charges and clear the records of those previously charged but we'll see.
posted by Ashwagandha at 4:22 PM on June 20, 2018 [3 favorites]


For those looking for no-smell methods of making edibles:
1) the ideas of sous-vide or oven bag mentioned previously work well. Sous-vide is better than oven bags [and fancy!]
2) buying concentrate and adding it to food is very simple. You can usually find a very concentrated syringe [no needle] at dispensaries. Sometimes it is called "phoenix tears" or "RSO" [rick simpson oil -- he is one of the prime "pot cures cancer" people - be warned], but for ~CAD$30 you can usually get about 600mg of THC concentrate, which yields about 60 standard-dose [start smaller, folks!] edibles. The procedure here is to just mix well with whatever you're making - no heat required. Mix it with honey, or coconut oil, or fudge, or whatever, and be done.

Did I say to mix well? It's VERY concentrated. Mix well, and don't lick the spoon.
Or after you've licked the spoon, don't try any of your edibles until at least 1.5 -2 hours later to be sure.
posted by Acari at 4:40 PM on June 20, 2018


For those Olds who haven't partaken in a while and are worried about potency (and especially if you don't like smoking), please don't try edibles first. All of the really bad times I've seen people have because of pot followed edible over-consumption, myself included. Also, even when it goes well, it's a very noticeably different effect than inhaled consumption (absorption via liver rather than lungs, so acts more as, e.g., anxiolytic than psychedelic). Folks I'm acquainted with who use edibles regularly do so for medical reasons rather than recreational.

A vape pen, on the other hand--even though it's using very potent oil--is easy to titrate. You can take a tiny puff and wait a few minutes, see how it affects you, or you can enthusiastically rip a big hit if you're a veteran. Either way, you'll know within singles of minutes whether or not you want more, instead of the ~60-120 minutes that edibles need to have effect. (The potency actually allows for finer calibration of small doses. So I hear.)
posted by LooseFilter at 5:46 PM on June 20, 2018 [4 favorites]


Yes. I agree with everything LooseFilter said, and it should be taken seriously. It is easy for inexperienced users to have a bad experience on edibles, because it's hard to dose and takes a long time to take effect. A disposable vape pen is a lot more user friendly.
posted by chrchr at 6:10 PM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


Thanks for the tips, as an Old who kinda remembers trying something that was supposed yo be marijuana when he was young and stupid and only getting a headache.
posted by nubs at 7:13 PM on June 20, 2018 [1 favorite]


For those Olds who haven't partaken in a while and are worried about potency (and especially if you don't like smoking), please don't try edibles first.

Seconded.

the ~60-120 minutes that edibles need to have effect

Just to add more detail, last time I ate some pot and watched the clock, I was barely feeling anything at the one-hour mark, and I was totally zonked after two hours, so my rule of thumb for edibles of unknown potency is to wait two hours before I consider re-dosing.
posted by shponglespore at 8:16 PM on June 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


smart, as courageous, as compassionate, as woke and as congenial a nation as is Canada

A bit OT, but Canada has very good branding. The reality is much different.
posted by JamesBay at 7:46 AM on June 21, 2018 [4 favorites]


please don't try edibles first.

I actually did try edibles first, a few years ago. My supplier cautioned, “maybe try like a quarter of a brownie.” I did.

Later I ate some chips and dip. Words fail me to describe them, but they were the best goddamn potato chips I have ever eaten.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:12 PM on June 27, 2018 [1 favorite]




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