Funeral for a Superfriend
August 13, 2018 10:54 AM Subscribe
It was certainly an event. And if the Superman team felt like they had to do something big and dumb to keep up with what was going on in comics around them, well, I can't say it was bigger or dumber.
Superman 75 itself is a very dumb though, and doing a story all in splash pages mostly makes for a very bad comic. As for Doomsday himself, I think the bets commentary on that was when the Superman analog in (I think) Astro City encountered a Doomsday analog and, instead of punching it out to the death had a think about the problem, concluded the Doomsday couldn't fly, then picked it up and threw it into the sun.
I always liked the whole return concept though. Regardless of execution the concept of all the maybe-Supermen is very fun. And they got Steel out of it.
posted by Artw at 11:34 AM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
Superman 75 itself is a very dumb though, and doing a story all in splash pages mostly makes for a very bad comic. As for Doomsday himself, I think the bets commentary on that was when the Superman analog in (I think) Astro City encountered a Doomsday analog and, instead of punching it out to the death had a think about the problem, concluded the Doomsday couldn't fly, then picked it up and threw it into the sun.
I always liked the whole return concept though. Regardless of execution the concept of all the maybe-Supermen is very fun. And they got Steel out of it.
posted by Artw at 11:34 AM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
The structure of the article is a bit confusing, especially if you're not too too familiar with comix. I remember the Byrne / Giordiano Man of Steel reboot, but it's been more than 25 years. I guess that character got killed off in 1993 or something? Not clear from the article.
With the Man of Steel reboot in 1986, I would have been around 14 or 15, and that was just when I was getting into comics, notably X-Men, which was going through its own reboot at the time with the massive Mutant Massacre timeline. I think Frank Miller's Dark Night was also released at the same time? And the original (and more edgy and interesting) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?
Great memories from back then, although I did get pissed off when the X-Men characters were all killed off or injured (Shadowcat and Colossus) or sent to alternate universes (Nightcrawler) and stopped reading superhero comics after that.
posted by JamesBay at 11:37 AM on August 13, 2018
With the Man of Steel reboot in 1986, I would have been around 14 or 15, and that was just when I was getting into comics, notably X-Men, which was going through its own reboot at the time with the massive Mutant Massacre timeline. I think Frank Miller's Dark Night was also released at the same time? And the original (and more edgy and interesting) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?
Great memories from back then, although I did get pissed off when the X-Men characters were all killed off or injured (Shadowcat and Colossus) or sent to alternate universes (Nightcrawler) and stopped reading superhero comics after that.
posted by JamesBay at 11:37 AM on August 13, 2018
Reign of the Supermen is a great title.
Yes, both Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen were released in 1986 which was the herald of the GrimDark xXx antihero era.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:49 AM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, both Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen were released in 1986 which was the herald of the GrimDark xXx antihero era.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:49 AM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Not so on-topic: I'm surprised at how much Jurgens' pencils look like Walt Simonson's art.
More on topic: I've never been able to forget hearing about the woman who thought Superman #75 was going to put her son through college; I wonder what happened to him.
posted by kimota at 11:53 AM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
More on topic: I've never been able to forget hearing about the woman who thought Superman #75 was going to put her son through college; I wonder what happened to him.
posted by kimota at 11:53 AM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I didn't give a damn about Superman as a kid, but I had a subscription to Wizard and weekly ride to a comic book shop at the age of 12. I bought that crap and tried like hell to care. Tried to make supes matter. For all I know, that's what put me off the Catechism, pep-rallies, and the GOP.
also, gotta fan-plug: A guy who really likes Superman says I, II.
posted by es_de_bah at 11:54 AM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
also, gotta fan-plug: A guy who really likes Superman says I, II.
posted by es_de_bah at 11:54 AM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, both Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen were released in 1986 which was the herald of the GrimDark xXx antihero era.
Last but one paragraph is pretty telling: We personally felt bad that characters like LOBO and The Punisher were being hailed as role models of some sort — and maybe it was our fault that Superman felt old-fashioned still. We were in a position to do something about it, or at least to TRY to do something about it, so we took that awkward opportunity of a postponed wedding and really made our point: Don't take Superman for granted — or he might not be there when you need him.
Alan Grant LOBO was HUGE back then. I was a big fan. The Punisher had 4 titles on the go at some point? And of course there was the whole Image comics silly-size gun brigade.
posted by Artw at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2018
Last but one paragraph is pretty telling: We personally felt bad that characters like LOBO and The Punisher were being hailed as role models of some sort — and maybe it was our fault that Superman felt old-fashioned still. We were in a position to do something about it, or at least to TRY to do something about it, so we took that awkward opportunity of a postponed wedding and really made our point: Don't take Superman for granted — or he might not be there when you need him.
Alan Grant LOBO was HUGE back then. I was a big fan. The Punisher had 4 titles on the go at some point? And of course there was the whole Image comics silly-size gun brigade.
posted by Artw at 11:56 AM on August 13, 2018
Max Landis did a film about the Death & Return of Superman (Trigger Warning: Max Landis [I forget how Metafilter feels about Max Landis but I can understand if he rubs people the wrong way]) which is entertaining after a fashion.
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:57 AM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 11:57 AM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I've never been able to forget hearing about the woman who thought Superman #75 was going to put her son through college; I wonder what happened to him.
That was so annoying back then! Everyone was buying comics to "collect" them as an investment. Kind of like pogs or cryptocurrency.
posted by JamesBay at 11:58 AM on August 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
That was so annoying back then! Everyone was buying comics to "collect" them as an investment. Kind of like pogs or cryptocurrency.
posted by JamesBay at 11:58 AM on August 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
I always liked the whole return concept though. Regardless of execution the concept of all the maybe-Supermen is very fun. And they got Steel out of it.
We're getting that Animated DC Universe adaptation as well: Reign of the Supermen [YouTube][Official Trailer]
posted by Fizz at 11:59 AM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
We're getting that Animated DC Universe adaptation as well: Reign of the Supermen [YouTube][Official Trailer]
posted by Fizz at 11:59 AM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think that that storyline was maybe the breaking point for me WRT really caring about big crossover events; I went from caring about them insofar as they affected the titles that I cared about, in the era of the original Secret Wars and Crisis on Infinite Earths, to mostly ignoring them, to this, where I actively resented the attention that was being paid to it, because it was so obviously not going to stick, although even at my most cynical, I wouldn't have guessed that the main effect on Superman himself would be a different haircut. As Artw says above, Doomsday should have been a trivial diversion for Supes at best, and the replacements were never really plausible either, although nu-Superboy had some good storylines, and some of the characters and organizations from the spinoffs would eventually show up in the CW's shows.
A couple of things that stuck out for me from the article: they were apparently under a lot of pressure to get the sales numbers up or near John Byrne's numbers; that was probably the high point of Byrne's career, as he started to bounce between titles and try his hand at creator-owned characters--the last I saw, he was doing Star Trek photo-comics using stills from the original series to tell his own stories. It was kind of hilarious and sad at the same time that they didn't realize that non-comics people would care so much about Superman dying, because they had lost sight of the fact that non-comics people don't know how ubiquitous death and resurrection are in comics. And that splash page of Clark revealing his secret identity to Lois would have been loads better if they got rid of the word balloons.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:04 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
A couple of things that stuck out for me from the article: they were apparently under a lot of pressure to get the sales numbers up or near John Byrne's numbers; that was probably the high point of Byrne's career, as he started to bounce between titles and try his hand at creator-owned characters--the last I saw, he was doing Star Trek photo-comics using stills from the original series to tell his own stories. It was kind of hilarious and sad at the same time that they didn't realize that non-comics people would care so much about Superman dying, because they had lost sight of the fact that non-comics people don't know how ubiquitous death and resurrection are in comics. And that splash page of Clark revealing his secret identity to Lois would have been loads better if they got rid of the word balloons.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:04 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I appreciated what they were trying to do at the time, bring back an optimistic view of heroism, deconstruct the 4 "edgy" takes (ok really 3) on the character. But: I could never take Doomsday seriously as a villain. The graphic design was awful. The powers were kind of stupid. I like, still like, the idea of a Kryptonian bioweapon that was out of control, of Superman somehow being linked to the creation of this problem. But the writing never gelled it for me as a meaningful conflict, or as even an interesting one. Big strong ugly guy kills Superman, who has to be written to be dumb about it to lose as well. When he's not playing a big dumb punch-guy, things go ok. Still, there's little ethical or even emotional tension in what happens when you take out the mystery parts.
And, they used this further to make Hal Jordan into the biggest man-child in the universe, which was also kind of unforgivable, given that GLs major character arcs to that date were mostly about cleaning up the messes of over-entitled dickheads in Sinestro and his bosses the Guardians themselves.
This is not a time in the DC history I think of really fondly.
posted by bonehead at 12:10 PM on August 13, 2018 [7 favorites]
And, they used this further to make Hal Jordan into the biggest man-child in the universe, which was also kind of unforgivable, given that GLs major character arcs to that date were mostly about cleaning up the messes of over-entitled dickheads in Sinestro and his bosses the Guardians themselves.
This is not a time in the DC history I think of really fondly.
posted by bonehead at 12:10 PM on August 13, 2018 [7 favorites]
This is not a time in the DC history I think of really fondly.
I consider this period to be when the Bat-books, edited by Dennis O'Neal, were at a creative peak. (and this is in spite of the Knightfall crossover).
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:19 PM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
I consider this period to be when the Bat-books, edited by Dennis O'Neal, were at a creative peak. (and this is in spite of the Knightfall crossover).
posted by 1970s Antihero at 12:19 PM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
1970s Anti-hero: O When I think of O'Neil, I think of his the GL/GA crossovers. I also have to admit a very strong fondness for the Jim Aparo/Neil Adams/Mike Grell look.
posted by bonehead at 12:27 PM on August 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 12:27 PM on August 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
More on topic: I've never been able to forget hearing about the woman who thought Superman #75 was going to put her son through college; I wonder what happened to him.
Well there's one on eBay right now with bidding at $36, so who knows.
posted by Melismata at 12:28 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well there's one on eBay right now with bidding at $36, so who knows.
posted by Melismata at 12:28 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
Though, I also think his "The Question" was some of the best mainstream stuff coming out of DC in the 80s as well.
posted by bonehead at 12:30 PM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 12:30 PM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
As for Doomsday himself, I think the bets commentary on that was when the Superman analog in (I think) Astro City encountered a Doomsday analog and, instead of punching it out to the death had a think about the problem, concluded the Doomsday couldn't fly, then picked it up and threw it into the sun.
Oh, there were lots of outs they might have used.
[Booster Gold] Hey, Zatanna, could you come over here for a minute?
[Zatanna] Yadsmood, Ezeerf ni ecalp rof eht txen net sraey!
[Booster Gold] Thanks. We owe you a beer.
posted by delfin at 12:30 PM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
Oh, there were lots of outs they might have used.
[Booster Gold] Hey, Zatanna, could you come over here for a minute?
[Zatanna] Yadsmood, Ezeerf ni ecalp rof eht txen net sraey!
[Booster Gold] Thanks. We owe you a beer.
posted by delfin at 12:30 PM on August 13, 2018 [4 favorites]
This happened when I was 12. I was not into superhero comics, and still amn’t. I remember having a few thoughts about it:
- Ooh, shiny!
- Good riddance. Superman sucks.
- That’s a pretty desperate gimmick.
- Everyone knows he’ll be back immediately, so how could anyone possibly care?
posted by Sys Rq at 12:49 PM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
- Ooh, shiny!
- Good riddance. Superman sucks.
- That’s a pretty desperate gimmick.
- Everyone knows he’ll be back immediately, so how could anyone possibly care?
posted by Sys Rq at 12:49 PM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Doomsday is one of those characters who is created specifically to be someone worthy of taking down a well-known hero.
Professor Moriarty: Mastermind behind basically all crime through an organization no one even suspects the existence of, also a skilled hand-to-hand combatant.
Bane: The crucible of a life spent in prison from a young age has formed him into a daunting opponent whose intelligence and athletic prowess rival Batman's own, and that's before he took venom.
Doomsday: Can punch really hard.
posted by ckape at 1:10 PM on August 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
Professor Moriarty: Mastermind behind basically all crime through an organization no one even suspects the existence of, also a skilled hand-to-hand combatant.
Bane: The crucible of a life spent in prison from a young age has formed him into a daunting opponent whose intelligence and athletic prowess rival Batman's own, and that's before he took venom.
Doomsday: Can punch really hard.
posted by ckape at 1:10 PM on August 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
Why didn't they just have Jean Loring jump up and down inside Doomsday's brain?
posted by delfin at 1:28 PM on August 13, 2018
posted by delfin at 1:28 PM on August 13, 2018
I can't be the only one tempted to watch the new movie. Burn me seventeen times, DC... it's animated though which actually is a good thing. Batman Ninja is PHENOMENAL if you like over-the-top anime fighting.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 1:51 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 1:51 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
The new DC animated movies aren't a waste of time, at all. We watched it last week. I'm looking forward to part two next year.
posted by bonehead at 2:15 PM on August 13, 2018
posted by bonehead at 2:15 PM on August 13, 2018
My favorite dumb silly trying-too-hard-to-be-edgy thing in the Doomsday story is when this monster--that can destroy entire cities and kill Superman with his fists--grabs Blue Beetle (or Booster Gold, I forget which) and slams a car door shut on his head.
Like it's supposed to be this shocking over-the-top moment of brutality, as it would be if this was just a couple normal guys having a fight. But in context it seems more like some hilariously fake wrestling move.
It's like they know there are no stakes watching superheroes and villains punch each other, they've failed for years to have any sort of weight to superpowers, with people routinely surviving punches that ought to pulverize them. So they try to reach for some brutal move from action movies, hoping we won't realize that compared with just punching the guy, that ought to be like Doomsday is hitting him with a Nerf sword.
posted by straight at 4:14 PM on August 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
Like it's supposed to be this shocking over-the-top moment of brutality, as it would be if this was just a couple normal guys having a fight. But in context it seems more like some hilariously fake wrestling move.
It's like they know there are no stakes watching superheroes and villains punch each other, they've failed for years to have any sort of weight to superpowers, with people routinely surviving punches that ought to pulverize them. So they try to reach for some brutal move from action movies, hoping we won't realize that compared with just punching the guy, that ought to be like Doomsday is hitting him with a Nerf sword.
posted by straight at 4:14 PM on August 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
Astro City encountered a Doomsday analog and, instead of punching it out to the death had a think about the problem, concluded the Doomsday couldn't fly, then picked it up and threw it into the sun.
Just ripping off Johnny Sokko and His Flying Robot.
The Justice League Unlimited mini-version of this storyline is really the only one I will recognize.
posted by praemunire at 9:25 PM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Just ripping off Johnny Sokko and His Flying Robot.
The Justice League Unlimited mini-version of this storyline is really the only one I will recognize.
posted by praemunire at 9:25 PM on August 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Well there's one on eBay right now with bidding at $36, so who knows.
..what. Literally every comic shop has at least a long box full of this issue somewhere in their back room. I think it's a rule. I'm pretty sure you're issued one if you open a new store.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:26 PM on August 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
..what. Literally every comic shop has at least a long box full of this issue somewhere in their back room. I think it's a rule. I'm pretty sure you're issued one if you open a new store.
posted by skycrashesdown at 9:26 PM on August 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
Before reading that article, I never really realized how much influence Louise Simonson had on that entire story arc. If you had asked me out of the blue who was responsible, I probably would have said Jurgens and Ordway, and obviously Kahn (due to her position with the company), and then maybe remembered Carlin with a bit of prodding. (Stern's name was completely gone from my mind, although that spark of recognition came pretty quickly once I saw it on the page.)
I guess Simonson is still in the Marvel slot in my recollection, and that's really not fair to her.
I don't want to think it's because she's a woman. As a female reader, I never believed that comics were by guys and for guys--I mean, look who was president of DC at the time: that's right a woman named Jenette--but maybe that has a lot to do with who got the credit and the publicity for this story.
I'll also admit, I pretty much didn't read that Reign of the Supermen arc, except for the odd issue here or there, because as a comic reader, I knew there was no way DC was going to keep Supes dead and buried, so the books without him just felt like time and money-wasting filler, and my buy list was long enough at the time.
I hate to admit it, but that Death of Superman issue is the only time in my life where I bought multiple copies (two) of the same issue so that I'd have one to read and one to keep pristine and unopened in its original, sealed bag. (I seem to recall a parent who wasn't actually thrilled with my comic reading habits encouraging this action, but I may have misremembered that.)
So thanks, Artw for making this post.
posted by sardonyx at 10:30 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I guess Simonson is still in the Marvel slot in my recollection, and that's really not fair to her.
I don't want to think it's because she's a woman. As a female reader, I never believed that comics were by guys and for guys--I mean, look who was president of DC at the time: that's right a woman named Jenette--but maybe that has a lot to do with who got the credit and the publicity for this story.
I'll also admit, I pretty much didn't read that Reign of the Supermen arc, except for the odd issue here or there, because as a comic reader, I knew there was no way DC was going to keep Supes dead and buried, so the books without him just felt like time and money-wasting filler, and my buy list was long enough at the time.
I hate to admit it, but that Death of Superman issue is the only time in my life where I bought multiple copies (two) of the same issue so that I'd have one to read and one to keep pristine and unopened in its original, sealed bag. (I seem to recall a parent who wasn't actually thrilled with my comic reading habits encouraging this action, but I may have misremembered that.)
So thanks, Artw for making this post.
posted by sardonyx at 10:30 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I read the novelization of this arc? And today still can’t believe they made one. My primary interest was to see how they’d bring ol’ Supes back (like James Bond? Or like Jesus?). Annie Wilkes in Stephen King’s Misery had already taught me the dangers of retconned events and deus ex machinas. I was also interested in how to make old folk heroes relevant to contemporary audiences, and the Steel part of the arc was right up my alley.
I don’t remember how they brought Supes back, so it was probably a Kryptonian deus ex machina. Nothing so literary as Misery’s foreshadowed bee allergy or Swamp Thing’s fundamental misconception about its true nature.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:28 AM on August 14, 2018
I don’t remember how they brought Supes back, so it was probably a Kryptonian deus ex machina. Nothing so literary as Misery’s foreshadowed bee allergy or Swamp Thing’s fundamental misconception about its true nature.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:28 AM on August 14, 2018
This arc happened to come out when I was very into Superman after being won over by the Panic in the Sky crossover event. I was very, very young. The hyperbole of the first act of the actual Death of Superman was like gravy to me. And the Reign of Superman third act, I feel like, opened me up to the idea of alternate interpretations of an archetype for the first time of my life ( I was, I must emphasize, very very young).
I'm not planning on revisiting the series ever. Mainstream comic titles will probably be forever in my past. I'm sure there's some analogy between my own feelings about Star Wars and certain younger generation blithely enjoying Jar Jar Binks. But I liked the Death of Superman. Thanks for links.
BTW: The Parker Solar Probe and Kerbal Space Program before it taught me that throwing something into the sun is much harder than you'd expect. Also no comic ever made sense ever so, relax and enjoy the show.
posted by WonderFunGo at 12:47 PM on August 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'm not planning on revisiting the series ever. Mainstream comic titles will probably be forever in my past. I'm sure there's some analogy between my own feelings about Star Wars and certain younger generation blithely enjoying Jar Jar Binks. But I liked the Death of Superman. Thanks for links.
BTW: The Parker Solar Probe and Kerbal Space Program before it taught me that throwing something into the sun is much harder than you'd expect. Also no comic ever made sense ever so, relax and enjoy the show.
posted by WonderFunGo at 12:47 PM on August 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
Man, 25 years. It's wild that's Superman's been gone that long. Sometimes I wonder what sort of things today's creators could do with the character to freshen him up for the modern era. Guess we'll never know.
posted by subocoyne at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by subocoyne at 5:39 PM on August 14, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don’t remember how they brought Supes back, so it was probably a Kryptonian deus ex machina.
Basically, yeah. Here's the synopsis from Wikipedia which gives the basic deets, although they leave out a few details.
Something else that I remembered was that one of the alternate Supermen was called the Eradicator, which cracked me up after I saw this Kids in the Hall sketch.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:44 AM on August 15, 2018
Basically, yeah. Here's the synopsis from Wikipedia which gives the basic deets, although they leave out a few details.
Something else that I remembered was that one of the alternate Supermen was called the Eradicator, which cracked me up after I saw this Kids in the Hall sketch.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:44 AM on August 15, 2018
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posted by OnTheLastCastle at 11:24 AM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]