“You can put a pillow over your face if you’re too embarrassed"
August 16, 2018 2:54 PM Subscribe
How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex.
Romance review and snark hub Smart Bitches Trashy Books features middle school sex-ed teacher Jennifer Prokop's advice on how to talk to your kids:
Use pop culture as a springboard for talking about your values... Is there any better song for talking about toxic masculinity than “Grenade” by Bruno Mars? My son and I had an interesting talk about the song “Tell Me You Love Me” by Demi Lovato: Why are girls taught “you ain’t somebody ‘till you got somebody” and is that really true?
Romance review and snark hub Smart Bitches Trashy Books features middle school sex-ed teacher Jennifer Prokop's advice on how to talk to your kids:
Romantic relationships aren’t more important than friendships and family relationships. Many kids feel left out if their friends have romantic relationships and they don’t, but you should remind your kids that all kinds of relationships are important and worth cultivating. You can model this by talking about the importance of all your relationships with your child and reminding them that dating someone shouldn’t define who they are. We don’t do enough to teach our kids about healthy relationships and intimacy.Bonus: Her review of What Does Consent Really Mean by Pete Wallis & Thalia Wallis
What in the Christ is that "Alligator River" business even about? It's more disturbing than the awful "plucked rose" or "used Scotch tape" lesson. At least those aren't actively nihilistic. Everyone in that story is tainted by their proximity to the Alligator River.
If you had a typical American upbringing, it's easy to believe that young people might as well try to be crossing a river full of alligators. But whose fault is that? The cruelty and carelessness of young people, particularly young men, doesn't spring out of them from nowhere. If they're allowed to believe that sexual relationships have an element of fear and humiliation, then that's what they'll accept.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:42 PM on August 16, 2018 [13 favorites]
If you had a typical American upbringing, it's easy to believe that young people might as well try to be crossing a river full of alligators. But whose fault is that? The cruelty and carelessness of young people, particularly young men, doesn't spring out of them from nowhere. If they're allowed to believe that sexual relationships have an element of fear and humiliation, then that's what they'll accept.
posted by Countess Elena at 3:42 PM on August 16, 2018 [13 favorites]
We had an interesting dilemma the other day when 9 year old asked how lesbians can become pregnant (he has a lot of familiarity with adoption and lesbian couples who were pregnant, but this was the first time he thought about the mechanics of conception without a male identified and penis having person).
I told him that some lesbian couples get sperm from a friend or maybe get some from a volunteer. Kid asked how the sperm gets out of the penis and I (in the moment) said at the doctor's office.
But in the specific case he asked about, this isn't true, one member of the couple has transitioned and banked sperm before transitioning, so the baby is biologically related to both of the people in this lesbian couple. They did use insemination though.
Yet I did not want to out my friend to my kid. My kid is already curious about this friend. Like my kid frequently comments on how tall this friend is already, asks if she was the tallest girl in her grade, asks when she grew, etc. Friend manages these questions well. But I don't know if it is my right to disclose her being trans to my kid. I need to ask her what she prefers.
For more context, yet so far in my kid's life, we have tons of lesbian friends and tons of trans friends but my kid is not aware of their trans status. He is aware that trans people exist.
I assume at some point in the near future I will tell him that some of our friends are trans I guess... If he asks directly perhaps? I suppose I need to check in with people about what their preferences are.
Anyway, not sure that there is a pop song for this situation.
posted by k8t at 3:43 PM on August 16, 2018 [30 favorites]
I told him that some lesbian couples get sperm from a friend or maybe get some from a volunteer. Kid asked how the sperm gets out of the penis and I (in the moment) said at the doctor's office.
But in the specific case he asked about, this isn't true, one member of the couple has transitioned and banked sperm before transitioning, so the baby is biologically related to both of the people in this lesbian couple. They did use insemination though.
Yet I did not want to out my friend to my kid. My kid is already curious about this friend. Like my kid frequently comments on how tall this friend is already, asks if she was the tallest girl in her grade, asks when she grew, etc. Friend manages these questions well. But I don't know if it is my right to disclose her being trans to my kid. I need to ask her what she prefers.
For more context, yet so far in my kid's life, we have tons of lesbian friends and tons of trans friends but my kid is not aware of their trans status. He is aware that trans people exist.
I assume at some point in the near future I will tell him that some of our friends are trans I guess... If he asks directly perhaps? I suppose I need to check in with people about what their preferences are.
Anyway, not sure that there is a pop song for this situation.
posted by k8t at 3:43 PM on August 16, 2018 [30 favorites]
Anyway, not sure that there is a pop song for this situation.
MeFi music challenge?
posted by BrotherCaine at 3:50 PM on August 16, 2018 [29 favorites]
MeFi music challenge?
posted by BrotherCaine at 3:50 PM on August 16, 2018 [29 favorites]
When Kid Ruki was pre-k, she thought she had it all figured out, which led to her very confidently telling my mom that “mommies eat babies.”
Also, despite my insistence on using correct terminology, young Kid Ruki insisted on calling her vulva her “front bum” which led to another interesting conversation with my mom where she corrected her earlier proclamation by insinuating that babies are basically shat out. She left a few key words out of that one.
posted by Ruki at 4:07 PM on August 16, 2018 [16 favorites]
Also, despite my insistence on using correct terminology, young Kid Ruki insisted on calling her vulva her “front bum” which led to another interesting conversation with my mom where she corrected her earlier proclamation by insinuating that babies are basically shat out. She left a few key words out of that one.
posted by Ruki at 4:07 PM on August 16, 2018 [16 favorites]
Coming in here to make my usual plug for Our Whole Lives, the curriculum used by UU and other groups that is age- appropriate, scientifically and medically accurate, respectful of and celebrates all genders and orientations, and focused on consent. You do not have to be a church member for your child to attend. I and other teachers just finished teaching the late middle school/early high school section to a group of great kids a few months ago and I remain impressed with what we covered and the ability of those kids to grasp nuance. Most of them were from other churches or the neighborhood.
posted by emjaybee at 5:05 PM on August 16, 2018 [31 favorites]
posted by emjaybee at 5:05 PM on August 16, 2018 [31 favorites]
Another parental shout out to Our Whole Lives. Both my sons have gone through the 5th grade and 8th grade OWL programs. The 8th grade program at our church is 22 classes, each 1-1/2 hrs long. It is a great program.
posted by AJScease at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by AJScease at 5:31 PM on August 16, 2018 [9 favorites]
This is why you don't overprotect and just push them out the back door onto the street.
posted by sammyo at 5:54 PM on August 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by sammyo at 5:54 PM on August 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
She says you can't trust the internet to teach your child your values, but...
I said to my 12-yr old son the other day, "There's this perception that guys are owed women's attention, and --"
And he cut me off and said, "Oh, mom, I know about that. I'm not going to be all 'Milady,' don't worry." And as he says "Milady," he tips his bike helmet at me in the manner of a fedora.
So I actually think the internet is doing a surprisingly good job of teaching my child about sex and gender. Who knew?
posted by selfmedicating at 6:15 PM on August 16, 2018 [72 favorites]
I said to my 12-yr old son the other day, "There's this perception that guys are owed women's attention, and --"
And he cut me off and said, "Oh, mom, I know about that. I'm not going to be all 'Milady,' don't worry." And as he says "Milady," he tips his bike helmet at me in the manner of a fedora.
So I actually think the internet is doing a surprisingly good job of teaching my child about sex and gender. Who knew?
posted by selfmedicating at 6:15 PM on August 16, 2018 [72 favorites]
There’s a wonderful series of books about a character Ellie for special needs girls to learn about their bodies, menstruation, masturbation etc.
My daughter liked the one about masturbation being natural and ok so much that she would, as autistic kids do, repeat lines of it at random intervals. I prepped the grandparents for this, but couldn’t remember the actual title, so it’s gone down in family lore as, “Ellie Rubs One Out.”
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:32 PM on August 16, 2018 [55 favorites]
My daughter liked the one about masturbation being natural and ok so much that she would, as autistic kids do, repeat lines of it at random intervals. I prepped the grandparents for this, but couldn’t remember the actual title, so it’s gone down in family lore as, “Ellie Rubs One Out.”
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 6:32 PM on August 16, 2018 [55 favorites]
It is intensely weird to me that so much of this advice for how to start positive, progressive conversations about sex is literally identical to the advice for how to start abstinence conversations that I used to see when I read my parents’ copies of “US Catholic” in the early 90s. Like I am pretty sure “Use pop culture as a springboard for talking about your values” is word-for-word. And the “trap them in the car” thing, and the “don’t be afraid to lecture” thing.
I genuinely do not know how I feel about this. Especially with the “it works” stories in the thread.
posted by snowmentality at 6:51 PM on August 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
I genuinely do not know how I feel about this. Especially with the “it works” stories in the thread.
posted by snowmentality at 6:51 PM on August 16, 2018 [8 favorites]
(probably mentioned this before)
When my daughter got back from her 5th grade sex ed class, she asked me "How does the sperm get to the egg?" Haha. Puritans still have their hold on public schooling, I guess.
Luckily, she got to the OWL (Our Whole Lives) program at the local U/U church, and learned everything about love and sex, a year later. God bless the OWL program.
posted by kozad at 8:56 PM on August 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
When my daughter got back from her 5th grade sex ed class, she asked me "How does the sperm get to the egg?" Haha. Puritans still have their hold on public schooling, I guess.
Luckily, she got to the OWL (Our Whole Lives) program at the local U/U church, and learned everything about love and sex, a year later. God bless the OWL program.
posted by kozad at 8:56 PM on August 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
but okay tho if the UUs put out a followup to OWL they've gotta call it NEWT.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:05 PM on August 16, 2018 [26 favorites]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:05 PM on August 16, 2018 [26 favorites]
like OWL is for when you're going through puberty and trying to figure out your changing body and everything, while NEWT (maybe "Now Everything's Wonderfully Terrible"?) is for when you're in your 20s and you're trying to figure out how to wade through the drama you're producing as you make a series of genuinely terrible relationship choices.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:13 PM on August 16, 2018 [37 favorites]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:13 PM on August 16, 2018 [37 favorites]
There are actually older adolescent, young adult, and not-so-young adult editions. The middle school one tends to get all the attention, as that's the one where the creators figured they'd hit the sweet spot of kids being interested, and it not being "too late". It's also much easier to get basically everyone to sign onto "kiddo, right now you're too young to be doing this stuff with other people" when talking to 13 year olds than 16 or 17 year olds.
As to snowmentality's point, I think for any worldview you want to instill in your offspring, you have to wage a (conscious or not) ongoing campaign, especially if it's at odds with what they're getting from the culture, which is the case with both the abstinence people (because the culture is pretty sex-fixated) and the "how about non-shitty gender and relationship norms" people (because, have you met the culture?)
posted by DebetEsse at 11:39 PM on August 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
As to snowmentality's point, I think for any worldview you want to instill in your offspring, you have to wage a (conscious or not) ongoing campaign, especially if it's at odds with what they're getting from the culture, which is the case with both the abstinence people (because the culture is pretty sex-fixated) and the "how about non-shitty gender and relationship norms" people (because, have you met the culture?)
posted by DebetEsse at 11:39 PM on August 16, 2018 [5 favorites]
You can put a pillow over your face if you’re too embarrassed.
I did this when I talked to my kid about sex.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:56 AM on August 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
I did this when I talked to my kid about sex.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:56 AM on August 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
Gosh, it would have been nice had I not gotten the familial talk four years too late. My stepfather was so earnest and it was so important to him, I couldn't break his heart and tell him. The same year I got the public school sex ed talk.
posted by Samizdata at 2:05 AM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by Samizdata at 2:05 AM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
The main thing we're working on with the boy (almost 8) is making sure he knows girls are his friends and fellow humans, not strange creatures from the land of girls. His books are all girl-positive, with a good mix of girl leaders and girl followers and girl planners and girl heroes and girl villains, and his best (pretty much only) pal outside school so far is the girl across the hall.
I'm afraid his sex-ish education so far has been limited to reminders such as not to play with himself in public and not to flash his bum at anyone. He only just stopped wetting the bed.
Compared to my ancient American sex education -- a 16-mm film clacking away in a darkened school lunch room full of mystified junior high boys -- I think we'll do all right, but I can't depend on the schools here (Poland) to teach him much beyond "family is important."
posted by pracowity at 2:16 AM on August 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
I'm afraid his sex-ish education so far has been limited to reminders such as not to play with himself in public and not to flash his bum at anyone. He only just stopped wetting the bed.
Compared to my ancient American sex education -- a 16-mm film clacking away in a darkened school lunch room full of mystified junior high boys -- I think we'll do all right, but I can't depend on the schools here (Poland) to teach him much beyond "family is important."
posted by pracowity at 2:16 AM on August 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
Note that the wonderful OWL program mentioned earlier is available at many UU congregations and also many United Church of Christ congregations (it was codeveloped by both denominations). Some programs are open to the community and some only to church members—it varies. It would be worth joining up for, though, to my mind. It’s also a lot of fun to teach, though you have to go through some training first.
posted by rikschell at 3:59 AM on August 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 3:59 AM on August 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
I've paneled for the OWL program, back when I was doing Q&A with Queers in undergrad. They invited a bunch of us with really different experiences and identities to talk to a bunch of ~12 to 13 year olds and let them ask us whatever questions that they wanted. I was a little startled to walk in and realize that the group was being led by my former therapist, but otherwise it seemed very nice.
Certainly it was better than the Christan sex ed program my mother took me to when I was about that age, which was so vague and focused on the "special bond" sex creates between partners that I became memorably confused about whether or not Mercedes Lackey's telepathic lifebonds were more realistic than I'd previously been taught.
I tend to think that sex ed is best approached by qualified professionals who are immune to shame or awkwardness, because my experience talking to friends is that most of us never got that Talk at all outside of a sitcom.
posted by sciatrix at 7:23 AM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
Certainly it was better than the Christan sex ed program my mother took me to when I was about that age, which was so vague and focused on the "special bond" sex creates between partners that I became memorably confused about whether or not Mercedes Lackey's telepathic lifebonds were more realistic than I'd previously been taught.
I tend to think that sex ed is best approached by qualified professionals who are immune to shame or awkwardness, because my experience talking to friends is that most of us never got that Talk at all outside of a sitcom.
posted by sciatrix at 7:23 AM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
At about age 8 or 9 I had a book waved under my nose, how babies are made or something, and was asked if I knew about this. I said yes, someone at school had told me years ago. "Oh. Well have the book anyway" was the response and thus concluded the only conversation about relationships and sex I've ever had with either of my parents.
This quality of education did not lead to a great time.
My own kid is not currently beyond a foetus and I have no idea how I'll bring such things up but I hardly think I could do worse.
posted by deadwax at 7:59 AM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
This quality of education did not lead to a great time.
My own kid is not currently beyond a foetus and I have no idea how I'll bring such things up but I hardly think I could do worse.
posted by deadwax at 7:59 AM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
What in the Christ is that "Alligator River" business even about? It's more disturbing than the awful "plucked rose" or "used Scotch tape" lesson. At least those aren't actively nihilistic. Everyone in that story is tainted by their proximity to the Alligator River.I don't know. "Life is unfair. Don't ever be Gregory, Sinbad, or Ivan" doesn't seem like the worst message one could deliver to kids. It's not the best framing, but it could lead to a pretty thoughtful discussion. (Sadly, probably not the lesson the teacher intended or delivered.) The separation of behavior and responsibility, though, is stupid, even given the most sympathetic possible interpretations of those words.
On the actual post, "Trap them in the car" is where I found it impossible to agree with the author. Going out of your way to confront people when they can't escape is pretty shitty, even if they're your kids and you mean well. "Talk to them when they can safely leave at any time," sounds like what an ethical person would do instead.
posted by eotvos at 8:04 AM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
"My own kid is not currently beyond a foetus and I have no idea how I'll bring such things up but I hardly think I could do worse."
My 7-year-old came home from first grade last year and said, "Mom, I heard at school that Donald Trump got in trouble for doing sex to a woman who isn't his wife [Stormy Daniels]. Why is he in trouble? And also, what's sex?"
It was an epic damn ambush, and of course this is my tiny scientist child who had FIVE BILLION FOLLOW-ON QUESTIONS that necessitated googling anatomical drawings and two hours of frank conversation about sex and relationships as he just. kept. asking. questions. and at one point I had to tell him we had to wait for dad to get home for an answer to a particular question because we were way beyond my knowledge of penises.
"Like I am pretty sure “Use pop culture as a springboard for talking about your values” is word-for-word. And the “trap them in the car” thing, and the “don’t be afraid to lecture” thing."
I mean, this are things that work with kids; child psychologists recommend it as a strategy for addressing many difficult questions with children! Also any parent who regularly drives will eventually discover all on their own that when bored in a car and not having to look you in the eye, kids will tell you all kinds of things they avoid telling you otherwise. (Like I don't know how New Yorkers get surprise super-personal confessions from their kids because how do you do it without the car?)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:38 AM on August 17, 2018 [18 favorites]
My 7-year-old came home from first grade last year and said, "Mom, I heard at school that Donald Trump got in trouble for doing sex to a woman who isn't his wife [Stormy Daniels]. Why is he in trouble? And also, what's sex?"
It was an epic damn ambush, and of course this is my tiny scientist child who had FIVE BILLION FOLLOW-ON QUESTIONS that necessitated googling anatomical drawings and two hours of frank conversation about sex and relationships as he just. kept. asking. questions. and at one point I had to tell him we had to wait for dad to get home for an answer to a particular question because we were way beyond my knowledge of penises.
"Like I am pretty sure “Use pop culture as a springboard for talking about your values” is word-for-word. And the “trap them in the car” thing, and the “don’t be afraid to lecture” thing."
I mean, this are things that work with kids; child psychologists recommend it as a strategy for addressing many difficult questions with children! Also any parent who regularly drives will eventually discover all on their own that when bored in a car and not having to look you in the eye, kids will tell you all kinds of things they avoid telling you otherwise. (Like I don't know how New Yorkers get surprise super-personal confessions from their kids because how do you do it without the car?)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:38 AM on August 17, 2018 [18 favorites]
What in the Christ is that "Alligator River" business even about?
Let Gregory come to you, Abigail.
posted by headnsouth at 9:07 AM on August 17, 2018
Let Gregory come to you, Abigail.
posted by headnsouth at 9:07 AM on August 17, 2018
What in the Christ is that "Alligator River" business even about?
It's almost as if people have never swum with alligators or something, so i guess this is from those drier areas of the country
posted by eustatic at 9:23 AM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
My 7-year-old came home from first grade last year and said, "Mom, I heard at school that Donald Trump got in trouble for doing sex to a woman who isn't his wife [Stormy Daniels]. Why is he in trouble? And also, what's sex?"
Oh my god, this has brought screaming back my own vivid memory of learning about sex. I was quite small, I have no idea how small, but maybe 5 or 6? I was still small enough to sit in a car seat. We were on the way back from a doctor's appointment in Charlotte and my mom was listening to NPR. Some politician* was in the midst of a sex scandal and I asked,"Mom, what's sex?" To be fair, I was the one who trapped her in the car.
*I could have sworn it was Colin Powell, but a quick perusal of his Wikipedia page doesn't show anything. It definitely wasn't Bill Clinton, I already knew about sex by the time all that happened.
posted by lollymccatburglar at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh my god, this has brought screaming back my own vivid memory of learning about sex. I was quite small, I have no idea how small, but maybe 5 or 6? I was still small enough to sit in a car seat. We were on the way back from a doctor's appointment in Charlotte and my mom was listening to NPR. Some politician* was in the midst of a sex scandal and I asked,"Mom, what's sex?" To be fair, I was the one who trapped her in the car.
*I could have sworn it was Colin Powell, but a quick perusal of his Wikipedia page doesn't show anything. It definitely wasn't Bill Clinton, I already knew about sex by the time all that happened.
posted by lollymccatburglar at 9:36 AM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
On the other hand, my father once gave me a "what women like during sex" talk that still occasionally pops horrifyingly into my head during coitus...30 years later. No one needs to know what mom likes. *shudder*
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:43 AM on August 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:43 AM on August 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
Except mom. And interested parties.
posted by pracowity at 10:10 AM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 10:10 AM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
I‘ve gone on the offensive with my kids. I explained how babies get made at about the same time as how eating works and what blood is for (when they were about three years old). Like, I‘d gleefully tack on „AND BTW DO YOU KNOW HOW BABIES GET MADE“ to any body discussion we‘ve had.
We also read Cory Silverberg‘s „What makes a baby“ for a really inclusive explanation that goes beyond PIV sex. It‘s a cute book!
So far so good, at 4 and 7 years they‘ve had good follow up questions and seem to get the mechanics just fine.
Now what I‘m really scared of is explaining the whole quagmire around consent, shitty gender dynamics etc. „How is babby formed“ is a doozy compared to that.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:46 AM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
We also read Cory Silverberg‘s „What makes a baby“ for a really inclusive explanation that goes beyond PIV sex. It‘s a cute book!
So far so good, at 4 and 7 years they‘ve had good follow up questions and seem to get the mechanics just fine.
Now what I‘m really scared of is explaining the whole quagmire around consent, shitty gender dynamics etc. „How is babby formed“ is a doozy compared to that.
posted by Omnomnom at 10:46 AM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Now what I‘m really scared of is explaining the whole quagmire around consent, shitty gender dynamics etc. „How is babby formed“ is a doozy compared to that.
Yeah. Because most of that is downright depressing. I don't have a problem talking about the basics of sex to my kid and we have some kid books and I try to be not squeamish because I'm not really but also, coming up with actual answers sometimes requires quite a bit of unpacking. But I really don't know what I'm going to do about the topic of how pushy boys can be, how shaming her peers may be about bodies, how gross porn is, how inappropriate it is for older men to leer at her and what to do about it? I don't know that there's a "Dutch method" for all that. I think about it quite a bit.
My favorite anecdote recently is a peer of mine, his kid was going through middle school sex-ed and he took him for a drive to talk about it and see if he had any questions. His kid said, "No, I think I get it all." Dad says, "Well, listen, I am happy to answer anything at anytime. You can talk to me." Kid: "Wellll.... I do have just one question....what exactly is a vagina?"
All of us love this story. Either the talk was vague or he was burying his head in his arms in embarrassment throughout the whole thing.
posted by amanda at 11:07 AM on August 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
Yeah. Because most of that is downright depressing. I don't have a problem talking about the basics of sex to my kid and we have some kid books and I try to be not squeamish because I'm not really but also, coming up with actual answers sometimes requires quite a bit of unpacking. But I really don't know what I'm going to do about the topic of how pushy boys can be, how shaming her peers may be about bodies, how gross porn is, how inappropriate it is for older men to leer at her and what to do about it? I don't know that there's a "Dutch method" for all that. I think about it quite a bit.
My favorite anecdote recently is a peer of mine, his kid was going through middle school sex-ed and he took him for a drive to talk about it and see if he had any questions. His kid said, "No, I think I get it all." Dad says, "Well, listen, I am happy to answer anything at anytime. You can talk to me." Kid: "Wellll.... I do have just one question....what exactly is a vagina?"
All of us love this story. Either the talk was vague or he was burying his head in his arms in embarrassment throughout the whole thing.
posted by amanda at 11:07 AM on August 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
Huh. At my kids’ school, the parent association brings in a sex expert to talk to the kids, starting in kindergarten. It’s awesome, they know how babies are made and 5 year olds feel no embarrassment.
The first time, I picked up my kids from school and asked if they learned anything special. My son: “yes! My penis is amazing!”
This is in Vancouver, Canada.
posted by Valancy Rachel at 2:19 PM on August 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
The first time, I picked up my kids from school and asked if they learned anything special. My son: “yes! My penis is amazing!”
This is in Vancouver, Canada.
posted by Valancy Rachel at 2:19 PM on August 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
Yeah, obviously mom and dad should be in sync on what mom likes. Allow me to rephsae that, “knowing what your own mother likes sexually performed in graphic detail may lead to the willies. Not those willies. Ahhhrrrgggghhhhh!”
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:51 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 5:51 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
When I was a kid my parents gave me a frankly pretty awesome book called How Your Body Works which used illustrations of fantastical machines to explain human anatomy and various bodily functions.
But guys, they had a section on sex and childbirth. And they illustrated how intercourse works with robots. Robots inexplicapably shaped like train engines.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 8:03 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
But guys, they had a section on sex and childbirth. And they illustrated how intercourse works with robots. Robots inexplicapably shaped like train engines.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 8:03 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
"At my kids’ school, the parent association brings in a sex expert to talk to the kids, starting in kindergarten. It’s awesome, they know how babies are made and 5 year olds feel no embarrassment."
This is relatively common in the US, depending on state; in Illinois, schools are meant to have K-12 sex ed, which starts with body parts and privacy and saying no, in kindergarten, and adds complication year over year from there. (I think most programs get to sex-sex in 3rd or 4th grade.) But a lot of states are flat-out trashfires on sex ed for sure.
"Now what I‘m really scared of is explaining the whole quagmire around consent, shitty gender dynamics etc. "
I guess this was the one benefit of Trump and Stormy Daniels being our starting point, since the first question was "why is he in trouble?" which led to a lot of discussion about how sex is important and intimate and how most marriages involve promises about monogamy and the real problems were 1) breaking that promise to Melania, and 2) that Ms. Daniels didn't really want to have sex with him but felt like she had to. And my 7 and 9 year old both loathe Donald Trump (entirely on their own, we were super careful to talk VERY LITTLE about politics but they haaaaaaaaate him), so if nothing else they're very clear that Donald Trump's attitudes towards women and sex are automatically uncool, so they say things like, "Well it's only good to have sex if the girl definitely says she wants to, otherwise you're like Donald Trump." (Which I guess is using pop culture moments to explain our values, but it'd be a lot better if that pop culture involved trashy D-list stars instead of the president.) But yeah, it was a lot easier to explain to them why what Trump did was wrong than to explain from a completely blank slate how consent works and have to start from first principles. Starting from abstracts is kinda tricky with them at that age, but if we start with a concrete example, like Trump and Stormy Daniels, they were well able to (and did!) ask a lot of questions like, "Well what if he wasn't married" "Well what if he didn't promise Melania to only have sex with her" "Well what if Stormy Daniels really wanted to have sex with him" "Well what if she thought she wanted to but changed her mind" and outline the contours of consent and consensual monogamy and so on that way. I'm 100% sure bizarre little corners of their ideas where they misunderstood in hilarious ways will pop up with some regularity, but I'm pretty confident that they grasped the central idea of both people consenting and both(/all) people setting boundaries for the relationship they were comfortable with, and the problem isn't any specific act or relationship or whatever, but that each person is freely able to decide and are marking out boundaries they're both comfortable with; the problem is the coercion and the lying, not the sex.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:15 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
This is relatively common in the US, depending on state; in Illinois, schools are meant to have K-12 sex ed, which starts with body parts and privacy and saying no, in kindergarten, and adds complication year over year from there. (I think most programs get to sex-sex in 3rd or 4th grade.) But a lot of states are flat-out trashfires on sex ed for sure.
"Now what I‘m really scared of is explaining the whole quagmire around consent, shitty gender dynamics etc. "
I guess this was the one benefit of Trump and Stormy Daniels being our starting point, since the first question was "why is he in trouble?" which led to a lot of discussion about how sex is important and intimate and how most marriages involve promises about monogamy and the real problems were 1) breaking that promise to Melania, and 2) that Ms. Daniels didn't really want to have sex with him but felt like she had to. And my 7 and 9 year old both loathe Donald Trump (entirely on their own, we were super careful to talk VERY LITTLE about politics but they haaaaaaaaate him), so if nothing else they're very clear that Donald Trump's attitudes towards women and sex are automatically uncool, so they say things like, "Well it's only good to have sex if the girl definitely says she wants to, otherwise you're like Donald Trump." (Which I guess is using pop culture moments to explain our values, but it'd be a lot better if that pop culture involved trashy D-list stars instead of the president.) But yeah, it was a lot easier to explain to them why what Trump did was wrong than to explain from a completely blank slate how consent works and have to start from first principles. Starting from abstracts is kinda tricky with them at that age, but if we start with a concrete example, like Trump and Stormy Daniels, they were well able to (and did!) ask a lot of questions like, "Well what if he wasn't married" "Well what if he didn't promise Melania to only have sex with her" "Well what if Stormy Daniels really wanted to have sex with him" "Well what if she thought she wanted to but changed her mind" and outline the contours of consent and consensual monogamy and so on that way. I'm 100% sure bizarre little corners of their ideas where they misunderstood in hilarious ways will pop up with some regularity, but I'm pretty confident that they grasped the central idea of both people consenting and both(/all) people setting boundaries for the relationship they were comfortable with, and the problem isn't any specific act or relationship or whatever, but that each person is freely able to decide and are marking out boundaries they're both comfortable with; the problem is the coercion and the lying, not the sex.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 8:15 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
the problem is the coercion and the lying, not the sex
I wish every child could hear this message.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:03 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
I wish every child could hear this message.
posted by Dip Flash at 12:03 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
You know, speaking of my sexual development being farther ahead than my family knew... Well, maybe they shouldn't have been a party to giving an 8 year old his Easter wish and a good quality, brand new copy of Gray's Anatomy without supervision.
posted by Samizdata at 1:33 AM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Samizdata at 1:33 AM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Oh. I mean, my actual sex education consisted of reading our medical book cover to cover and also my beloved, well-tattered copy of the Encyclopedia of the Dog, which I think I was about three or four when I received and also had a two-page spread explaining canine reproduction complete with detailed pictures. I just about memorized that book as a child.
I mean, it was possible my mother never again bothered to give me a formal talk because I was explaining how babies were made on the playground in kindergarten. Mind you, there was a lot absent in that "sex education," but the actual "how do babies happen" thing was never much of a mystery to me.
posted by sciatrix at 3:16 AM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
I mean, it was possible my mother never again bothered to give me a formal talk because I was explaining how babies were made on the playground in kindergarten. Mind you, there was a lot absent in that "sex education," but the actual "how do babies happen" thing was never much of a mystery to me.
posted by sciatrix at 3:16 AM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
at one point I had to tell him we had to wait for dad to get home for an answer to a particular question because we were way beyond my knowledge of penises.
My daughter is appalled that I can answer questions about penises at all.
posted by Margalo Epps at 6:03 PM on August 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
My daughter is appalled that I can answer questions about penises at all.
posted by Margalo Epps at 6:03 PM on August 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
an entire generation of children are going to learn about sex after asking questions about 45’s behavior, and as such will always in some small way associate sex with that guy, and that makes me so sad.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 1:55 PM on August 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 1:55 PM on August 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
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Interestingly we talked about Grenade just the other day.
posted by k8t at 3:30 PM on August 16, 2018 [12 favorites]