Dollar General: not so much as an opportunity as a diagnosis for towns
August 17, 2018 11:25 AM Subscribe
Where even Walmart won't go: how Dollar General took over rural America (The Guardian). As the chain opens stores at the rate of three a day across the US, often in the heart of ‘food deserts’, some see Dollar General as an admission that a town is failing. There are more Dollar General locations than McDonalds locations in the United States, and the company's growth doesn't show any sign of slowing down (Retail Dive).
An excerpt from The Guardian's article:
An excerpt from The Guardian's article:
Buhler’s mayor, Daniel Friesen, watched events unfold in Haven and came to see Dollar General not so much as an opportunity as a diagnosis.Dollar General creates worry in small towns (Bismark Tribune), though in some town stores bounced back.
Friesen understood why dying towns with no shops beyond the convenience store at the gas station welcomed Dollar General out of desperation for anything at all, like Burton, just up the road, where the last food shop closed 20 years ago. But Buhler had a high street with grocery and hardware stores, a busy cafe and a clothes shop. It had life.
As Friesen saw it, Dollar General was not only a threat to all that but amounted to admission his town was failing. “It was about retaining the soul of the community. It was about, what kind of town do we want?” he said.
Denise Milbrandt, manager of Miller’s Fresh Foods, the grocery store in Hankinson, says her store’s sales fell 10 percent in the first few months after Dollar General opened. The store was forced to cut the hours of some employees. Since then, sales have returned to previous levels and employee hours have been restored.Even if the town rebounds in terms of local businesses, there are other concerns:
“Everyone was worried,” she said. “At first, you could tell the difference. It took a bite. Now we’re back where we were. Our loyal customers are still shopping here.”
In order to compete with grocery stores, Dollar General has expanded its food section. The Hankinson store has nearly three aisles of food products. It has a cooler and freezer section, so you can buy milk and microwavable meals. It doesn’t stock fresh meat or produce, but lots of processed foods in boxes and cans. More of its food shelf space is devoted to snacks and sugary drinks than anything else.Dollar General is expanding in rural Midwest, presenting a threat to small-town grocery stores (Omaha World-Herald)
If Chet’s [the local grocery store in Moville, Iowa] closes, they’d have to make the 40-mile round trip to Sioux City to find the selection of fresh meat, dairy, produce and other grocery items that Chet’s offers.Join The Booming Dollar Store Economy! Low Pay, Long Hours, May Work While Injured (Huffington Post) -- previously seen in How Dollar General Became Rural America's Store of Choice.
“We’re so lucky to have this store, I don’t ever want to lose it,” said Jeannie Crick, buying milk and lettuce at Chet’s. But like others who support Chet’s, Crick said she’s shopped at Dollar General, too.
Store owner Chet Davis says people don’t realize how precarious the grocery store’s business is, how tight grocery store profit margins are or how most of his costs — such as utilities and insurance — stay the same no matter how many packs of steaks or stalks of broccoli he sells.
The neat thing about a $1.00 is this... If a brand wants access to the store, you can see exactly what they can do and build for a dollar... and you can compare to what that looks like for knockoff brands. But, if the brand doesn't come up with something, its likely that they will lose almost all access to that customer. The dollar store is a race to the bottom: if you live on a fixed income you know exactly how many items you can get there. Rather than purchase a name brand, these customers used to get bigger off-brand sizes... now, brands push those out, which means customers get less, which means they come back more frequently, which fuels this race... Nobody wants to feel like they can't have something... and the dollar store gives the false sense that a given brand is affordable... and still robs the customer of usage. It's like buying a gallon of milk on layaway.
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:47 AM on August 17, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 11:47 AM on August 17, 2018 [17 favorites]
When our family goes on vacation, I try to drive US Routes rather than interstates as much as we can. Almost EVERY little half-dead town has a Dollar General at its edge. What is most depressing about them is that they are rarely built into existing structures or located in the town itself as part of a broader commercial corridor. They carve out a little piece of farmland just barely in town, take delivery of the most plain cinder-blocky building materials possible, and plop the thing down. It looks dreary and is almost custom-made to be alone. Come in and spend your money here and then go back home. It's doubly sad (but not at all surprising) to see that they have a well-fed lobbying group that extracts zoning changes and tax incentives to speed along their growth.
At the same time, it feels patronizing to look at it from far away and say "these small town people just don't get that by shopping there they are speeding along their demise," because for some people the $7 that you can save probably makes a huge difference. It would be great if everyone could eat bok choy and flaxseed crisps and grass-fed beef, but a frozen Valu Time French Bread Pizza delivers the calories and tastes pretty great at the end of a long shift.
(I think "Dollar General at the Edge of Town" will be my next MeFi sockpuppet name.)
posted by AgentRocket at 11:54 AM on August 17, 2018 [62 favorites]
At the same time, it feels patronizing to look at it from far away and say "these small town people just don't get that by shopping there they are speeding along their demise," because for some people the $7 that you can save probably makes a huge difference. It would be great if everyone could eat bok choy and flaxseed crisps and grass-fed beef, but a frozen Valu Time French Bread Pizza delivers the calories and tastes pretty great at the end of a long shift.
(I think "Dollar General at the Edge of Town" will be my next MeFi sockpuppet name.)
posted by AgentRocket at 11:54 AM on August 17, 2018 [62 favorites]
Dollar General is the second stage (the explosive and rapacious growth of Walmart was the first) in the ongoing immiseration of rural America.
By sucking the surplus value out of these communities (value that once flowed to locally owned independent businesses, who were obliged to return at least a portion of that value back to their communities), they will continue making it harder and harder for small communities to maintain the population and tax base necessary to offer even the most basic of services.
posted by Chrischris at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2018 [57 favorites]
By sucking the surplus value out of these communities (value that once flowed to locally owned independent businesses, who were obliged to return at least a portion of that value back to their communities), they will continue making it harder and harder for small communities to maintain the population and tax base necessary to offer even the most basic of services.
posted by Chrischris at 11:55 AM on August 17, 2018 [57 favorites]
I'm not sure why they're emphasizing rural areas, Dollar Generals are pretty ubiquitous in lots of urban areas too. There's one a block and half from my house (and a Dollar Tree across the street from it).
posted by octothorpe at 12:04 PM on August 17, 2018 [25 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:04 PM on August 17, 2018 [25 favorites]
This is the efficiency of capitalism. Small towns get crappy goods at prices that seem low and probably aren't, in per-unit terms. And there's no sense of community where the single Mom gets credit at the end of the month, or the person on disability gets the occasional free sandwich.
I used to walk by a terrible Mom-n-Pop store on my way to work, and would stop for a breakfast sandwich sometimes. It was a community. They knew many customers by name, took bottle returns in small amounts, which is a huge help to the homeless and very poor, who usually need cash at the end of the month rather desperately. People didn't hang out a long time, but more than a few regulars might drink coffee and chat for 5 - 10 minutes. For people without extended family nearby, or just lonely, that small community makes a genuine difference. After a few sandwiches, they knew I wanted mustard and not cheese, and while I wasn't at home there, I got a more familiar Good Morning.
Human contact is being systematically stripped from American life. She says, on an online community website.
posted by theora55 at 12:08 PM on August 17, 2018 [67 favorites]
I used to walk by a terrible Mom-n-Pop store on my way to work, and would stop for a breakfast sandwich sometimes. It was a community. They knew many customers by name, took bottle returns in small amounts, which is a huge help to the homeless and very poor, who usually need cash at the end of the month rather desperately. People didn't hang out a long time, but more than a few regulars might drink coffee and chat for 5 - 10 minutes. For people without extended family nearby, or just lonely, that small community makes a genuine difference. After a few sandwiches, they knew I wanted mustard and not cheese, and while I wasn't at home there, I got a more familiar Good Morning.
Human contact is being systematically stripped from American life. She says, on an online community website.
posted by theora55 at 12:08 PM on August 17, 2018 [67 favorites]
I'm not sure why they're emphasizing rural areas, Dollar Generals are pretty ubiquitous in lots of urban areas too. There's one a block and half from my house (and a Dollar Tree across the street from it).
Because suburban areas have more diverse and resilient local economies. Dollar Generals in a rural area become the local economy.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 12:12 PM on August 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
Because suburban areas have more diverse and resilient local economies. Dollar Generals in a rural area become the local economy.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 12:12 PM on August 17, 2018 [16 favorites]
Northwest Michigan is full of Dollar General and Family Dollar (which on is the yellow one?). I presume other parts of Michigan are too, but I see so many of these on my drive through small, dying towns on my way from Kzoo to Benzie County. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, it is either the only food in town they can afford or the only food in town period.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:16 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by misanthropicsarah at 12:16 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
In Canada it’s Dollarama, my favourite store. Not only do they have most small items we need at half to a quarter of the price of Amazon, they’re one of the few places that welcome the poor and homeless who have to count nickels to buy bread or soup or whatever. They’re god damn essential for the poorest people and I support then wholeheartedly. Not everything is imported, either, and better quality stuff is there for up to $4.
I mean I can get a four pack of AAA batteries from the bodega for $5.99, or a five pack from Dollarama for $1.
And the staff and clerks are locals making at least Ontario’s minimum wage, which isn’t a sock in the eye, either.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:19 PM on August 17, 2018 [13 favorites]
I mean I can get a four pack of AAA batteries from the bodega for $5.99, or a five pack from Dollarama for $1.
And the staff and clerks are locals making at least Ontario’s minimum wage, which isn’t a sock in the eye, either.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:19 PM on August 17, 2018 [13 favorites]
Please don't look down your nose too hard at these sorts of stores.
Some of us, on the brink of homelessness after 18 months unemployed, survived on this stuff. And out in rural America, there are fewer food banks and soup kitchens than you might think.
posted by andreaazure at 12:23 PM on August 17, 2018 [70 favorites]
Some of us, on the brink of homelessness after 18 months unemployed, survived on this stuff. And out in rural America, there are fewer food banks and soup kitchens than you might think.
posted by andreaazure at 12:23 PM on August 17, 2018 [70 favorites]
We have one right at the end of our block now, filling in a space that used to be an abandoned convenience store for the past several years. For a working class neighborhood with some poorer residents, this is an improvement from walking several more blocks to an overpriced Walgreens or a mile and a half to a discount supermarket, or making it nearly an all-day chore if waiting for public transit.
posted by Foosnark at 12:30 PM on August 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 12:30 PM on August 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
Definitely Not Sean Spicer: "I'm not sure why they're emphasizing rural areas, Dollar Generals are pretty ubiquitous in lots of urban areas too. There's one a block and half from my house (and a Dollar Tree across the street from it).
Because suburban areas have more diverse and resilient local economies. Dollar Generals in a rural area become the local economy."
I said urban, not suburban and people in inner city areas are often very isolated from easily accessible food stores.
posted by octothorpe at 12:36 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
Because suburban areas have more diverse and resilient local economies. Dollar Generals in a rural area become the local economy."
I said urban, not suburban and people in inner city areas are often very isolated from easily accessible food stores.
posted by octothorpe at 12:36 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
I normally find the "late stage capitalism" hurf-durfing to be played out, but Dollar General is just that: it's the Kaposi sarcoma on the body politic — the visible sign of a much deeper and more complex disease process. It's an opportunistic infection, and while fighting it is worthwhile and probably necessary, there will be something else coming along, because our institutions, which would normally fight off such behavior as a matter of course, have been so weakened.
I came from a rural area, like many people, and feel a certain connection to small towns, even though—like most people—I don't live in one anymore; to have stayed in the town where I grew up would not only have been depressing (taking my now-spouse on a visit there, we went on the "used to be" tour... "this is where the hardware store used to be before it closed!" "this is where the playground used to be before it burned!" "this is where the IGA used to be before Walmart opened down the highway!"...), but it would also have meant taking a staggering quality-of-life hit; the jobs that would allow a person to maintain a lifestyle like what I had as a kid just no longer exist in that area. So everyone who can, and isn't retired and living on a fixed income, leaves.
I don't know how to save rural communities without major changes. Broadband and remote-work was supposed to do it, but I think in the last decade we've learned that the tech industry is actually more requiring of in-person work than many had hoped, and the jobs that are remote-workable are also the ones most open to offshoring. To work remotely from a small town in the US is to compete with everyone from Abuja to Phnom Penh, and to be easier to replace than an in-person employee to boot. It seems dangerously like a race to the bottom.
Manufacturing could probably help to some extent, since manufacturing isn't terribly conducive to being moved into urban centers, and although robotics and other machinery reduce the human labor requirements for a particular good, the demand for products is nearly infinite (problematically so, in fact). But again there is the global race-to-the-bottom problem, because transportation to and from low-labor-cost parts of the globe is so cheap, and on top of that we have addicted ourselves as a society to cheap products made inefficiently. Too many Americans can't afford to buy anything made by other Americans, and there's seemingly no appetite for investment in the sorts of productive technologies that would make domestic manufacturing competitive via efficiencies (and even if there were, there are no guarantees it wouldn't just be outsourced, combined with even-cheaper labor, and accelerate the process).
Probably the only things that would really help are the same things that would help the rest of the economy as a whole: fix healthcare, so that US firms aren't held at a terrible disadvantage to virtually every other global competitor; subsidize green technology and efficient manufacturing, including closed-loop supply chains and deposit schemes to incentivize remanufacturing near the point of consumption; tax carbon, which would have the side effect of making transportation less artificially inexpensive; remove offshore tax loopholes and tax-code subsidizations for offshoring; and, as long as we're blowing up the global trade system anyway, set tariffs based on labor costs and environmental impact, to prevent race-to-the-bottom conditions either for cheap labor or lax environmental regulations (which would require that we stop listening to anyone who yowls about "comparative advantage" where cheap-labor or environmentally-lax locales are concerned). Even then, I don't know that it would really save small towns — but it'd be worth a try, and given the amount of political power that rural areas wield in the US, getting the (remaining) inhabitants of small towns on board with any broad economic plan is a necessity.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:46 PM on August 17, 2018 [57 favorites]
I came from a rural area, like many people, and feel a certain connection to small towns, even though—like most people—I don't live in one anymore; to have stayed in the town where I grew up would not only have been depressing (taking my now-spouse on a visit there, we went on the "used to be" tour... "this is where the hardware store used to be before it closed!" "this is where the playground used to be before it burned!" "this is where the IGA used to be before Walmart opened down the highway!"...), but it would also have meant taking a staggering quality-of-life hit; the jobs that would allow a person to maintain a lifestyle like what I had as a kid just no longer exist in that area. So everyone who can, and isn't retired and living on a fixed income, leaves.
I don't know how to save rural communities without major changes. Broadband and remote-work was supposed to do it, but I think in the last decade we've learned that the tech industry is actually more requiring of in-person work than many had hoped, and the jobs that are remote-workable are also the ones most open to offshoring. To work remotely from a small town in the US is to compete with everyone from Abuja to Phnom Penh, and to be easier to replace than an in-person employee to boot. It seems dangerously like a race to the bottom.
Manufacturing could probably help to some extent, since manufacturing isn't terribly conducive to being moved into urban centers, and although robotics and other machinery reduce the human labor requirements for a particular good, the demand for products is nearly infinite (problematically so, in fact). But again there is the global race-to-the-bottom problem, because transportation to and from low-labor-cost parts of the globe is so cheap, and on top of that we have addicted ourselves as a society to cheap products made inefficiently. Too many Americans can't afford to buy anything made by other Americans, and there's seemingly no appetite for investment in the sorts of productive technologies that would make domestic manufacturing competitive via efficiencies (and even if there were, there are no guarantees it wouldn't just be outsourced, combined with even-cheaper labor, and accelerate the process).
Probably the only things that would really help are the same things that would help the rest of the economy as a whole: fix healthcare, so that US firms aren't held at a terrible disadvantage to virtually every other global competitor; subsidize green technology and efficient manufacturing, including closed-loop supply chains and deposit schemes to incentivize remanufacturing near the point of consumption; tax carbon, which would have the side effect of making transportation less artificially inexpensive; remove offshore tax loopholes and tax-code subsidizations for offshoring; and, as long as we're blowing up the global trade system anyway, set tariffs based on labor costs and environmental impact, to prevent race-to-the-bottom conditions either for cheap labor or lax environmental regulations (which would require that we stop listening to anyone who yowls about "comparative advantage" where cheap-labor or environmentally-lax locales are concerned). Even then, I don't know that it would really save small towns — but it'd be worth a try, and given the amount of political power that rural areas wield in the US, getting the (remaining) inhabitants of small towns on board with any broad economic plan is a necessity.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:46 PM on August 17, 2018 [57 favorites]
What is most depressing about them is that they are rarely built into existing structures or located in the town itself as part of a broader commercial corridor
Hello Santa Rosa NM as but one example! It could be (and probably was in the past) a beautiful, great small town, but instead now it's a series of buildings that are farther apart than boys and girls at an elementary school dance. I take it that sometime in the 1960s-now, nearly every rural town in the US decided it wanted to a be a suburb, but without a city attached. Dollar General is terrible, but it's not just them. If it was it might be solvable. It's every single corporate business.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:28 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Hello Santa Rosa NM as but one example! It could be (and probably was in the past) a beautiful, great small town, but instead now it's a series of buildings that are farther apart than boys and girls at an elementary school dance. I take it that sometime in the 1960s-now, nearly every rural town in the US decided it wanted to a be a suburb, but without a city attached. Dollar General is terrible, but it's not just them. If it was it might be solvable. It's every single corporate business.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:28 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't even have that much of a problem with the Dollar General model for most things - it's like Costco has become the standard by which all other stores are judged - but I don't want 50 lbs of toothpaste, even if it is $0.10 less per ounce. It's wasteful to store that much of everything. Screw that. Small quantities of many things is perfectly fine.
Judge them by their buildings, their lack of employee healthcare, their hours, their screwing of employees, but their products and lesser sizes are mostly fine.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2018 [6 favorites]
Judge them by their buildings, their lack of employee healthcare, their hours, their screwing of employees, but their products and lesser sizes are mostly fine.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:32 PM on August 17, 2018 [6 favorites]
Please don't look down your nose too hard at these sorts of stores.
Some of us, on the brink of homelessness after 18 months unemployed, survived on this stuff. And out in rural America, there are fewer food banks and soup kitchens than you might think.
This, totally. I live out in rural America too, and the town I live in is 25 miles from any other town and 35 miles from the edge of a city. When you don't make much of a living, you have to live in a rural area to be able to afford any kind of housing. And when you live in an isolated rural area, you shop at a local place even if it is a "dollar store" because otherwise you spend a shitpile of money on gas to get to another "non-dollar" store.
Interestingly, I used to live in a tiny rural town in New Mexico where we didn't even have a traffic light, just a 4-way stop sign in the middle of town. We had a Dollar General and a Family Dollar store in town, but no local grocery at all. We used to joke about how the reason we had two "dollar" stores in town is because we had two dollars in our pocket.
posted by strelitzia at 1:34 PM on August 17, 2018 [18 favorites]
Some of us, on the brink of homelessness after 18 months unemployed, survived on this stuff. And out in rural America, there are fewer food banks and soup kitchens than you might think.
This, totally. I live out in rural America too, and the town I live in is 25 miles from any other town and 35 miles from the edge of a city. When you don't make much of a living, you have to live in a rural area to be able to afford any kind of housing. And when you live in an isolated rural area, you shop at a local place even if it is a "dollar store" because otherwise you spend a shitpile of money on gas to get to another "non-dollar" store.
Interestingly, I used to live in a tiny rural town in New Mexico where we didn't even have a traffic light, just a 4-way stop sign in the middle of town. We had a Dollar General and a Family Dollar store in town, but no local grocery at all. We used to joke about how the reason we had two "dollar" stores in town is because we had two dollars in our pocket.
posted by strelitzia at 1:34 PM on August 17, 2018 [18 favorites]
It's doubly sad (but not at all surprising) to see that they have a well-fed lobbying group that extracts zoning changes and tax incentives to speed along their growth.
If a dying town has zoning rules that makes lobbying worthwhile, I think the problem here isn't the lobbying.
Dollar General is the second stage (the explosive and rapacious growth of Walmart was the first) in the ongoing immiseration of rural America.
By sucking the surplus value out of these communities (value that once flowed to locally owned independent businesses, who were obliged to return at least a portion of that value back to their communities), they will continue making it harder and harder for small communities to maintain the population and tax base necessary to offer even the most basic of services.
Do you think this is really true? Lets remove the dollar stores, lets even remove the Walmarts from these communities. What does the residual surplus value get? Think about it. How much tax base remains? How many locally owned non chain businesses are really going to offer anything better? How much surplus could there be when nobody is capable of stepping up to the plate to provide the mythical warm and fuzzy viable mom and pop shop, where we could all get sundry goods, some fresh produce, and a happy, welcoming community all in one, with a well paid, loyal employee base to boot?
I, too, often think the "late stage capitalism" stuff is bullshit. No different here. Rural areas have always had challenges such as these. Whatever good the terrible mom-and pop stores offered, they were still terrible.
posted by 2N2222 at 1:34 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
If a dying town has zoning rules that makes lobbying worthwhile, I think the problem here isn't the lobbying.
Dollar General is the second stage (the explosive and rapacious growth of Walmart was the first) in the ongoing immiseration of rural America.
By sucking the surplus value out of these communities (value that once flowed to locally owned independent businesses, who were obliged to return at least a portion of that value back to their communities), they will continue making it harder and harder for small communities to maintain the population and tax base necessary to offer even the most basic of services.
Do you think this is really true? Lets remove the dollar stores, lets even remove the Walmarts from these communities. What does the residual surplus value get? Think about it. How much tax base remains? How many locally owned non chain businesses are really going to offer anything better? How much surplus could there be when nobody is capable of stepping up to the plate to provide the mythical warm and fuzzy viable mom and pop shop, where we could all get sundry goods, some fresh produce, and a happy, welcoming community all in one, with a well paid, loyal employee base to boot?
I, too, often think the "late stage capitalism" stuff is bullshit. No different here. Rural areas have always had challenges such as these. Whatever good the terrible mom-and pop stores offered, they were still terrible.
posted by 2N2222 at 1:34 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
Chrischris: By sucking the surplus value out of these communities (value that once flowed to locally owned independent businesses, who were obliged to return at least a portion of that value back to their communities), they will continue making it harder and harder for small communities to maintain the population and tax base necessary to offer even the most basic of services.
Kadin2048: Dollar General is just that: it's the Kaposi sarcoma on the body politic — the visible sign of a much deeper and more complex disease process.
That's the point of the article in The Guardian - it's something that comes in when the town has little chance left of reviving, because no one else did this first. There's no new grocery store in town, so Dollar General can swoop in, drop in a new cinderblock atrocity, ignoring local style and not even re-using an existing building, and pushes the town a bit farther downhill.
The one that came to mind for me isn't a Dollar General, but a Family Dollar (Google streetview; FD is owned by Dollar Tree), which is down the street from the local variety shop (Gsv) in Springer, NM, with a declining population of under 1,000 people (Wiki). To highlight their differences, FD is bleak and new, while the local shop is a bit dingy, but is selling live plants out front. If they wanted to do anything for town, while also competing with the local shop, FD could have moved into the historic building for sale (Gsv), the old Cactus Cafe. Instead, the downtown "center" continues to decline, while FD sits south of the center.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:36 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Kadin2048: Dollar General is just that: it's the Kaposi sarcoma on the body politic — the visible sign of a much deeper and more complex disease process.
That's the point of the article in The Guardian - it's something that comes in when the town has little chance left of reviving, because no one else did this first. There's no new grocery store in town, so Dollar General can swoop in, drop in a new cinderblock atrocity, ignoring local style and not even re-using an existing building, and pushes the town a bit farther downhill.
The one that came to mind for me isn't a Dollar General, but a Family Dollar (Google streetview; FD is owned by Dollar Tree), which is down the street from the local variety shop (Gsv) in Springer, NM, with a declining population of under 1,000 people (Wiki). To highlight their differences, FD is bleak and new, while the local shop is a bit dingy, but is selling live plants out front. If they wanted to do anything for town, while also competing with the local shop, FD could have moved into the historic building for sale (Gsv), the old Cactus Cafe. Instead, the downtown "center" continues to decline, while FD sits south of the center.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:36 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
It would be great if everyone could eat bok choy and flaxseed crisps and grass-fed beef, but a frozen Valu Time French Bread Pizza delivers the calories and tastes pretty great at the end of a long shift.
If only there were foods between those two extremes, sold by locally owned businesses that gave back to the community.
Crazy talk, I know.
Not as if that used to exist before being quite purposefully and rapaciously dismantled in every town in America.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:44 PM on August 17, 2018 [21 favorites]
If only there were foods between those two extremes, sold by locally owned businesses that gave back to the community.
Crazy talk, I know.
Not as if that used to exist before being quite purposefully and rapaciously dismantled in every town in America.
posted by Celsius1414 at 1:44 PM on August 17, 2018 [21 favorites]
Please don't look down your nose too hard at these sorts of stores.
Some of us, on the brink of homelessness after 18 months unemployed, survived on this stuff. And out in rural America, there are fewer food banks and soup kitchens than you might think.
Personally, I'm not looking down on these stores, but sad that communities slide to the condition that Dollar General is the last "grocery" store in town, or in some cases the first new one to come in. If the Dollar stores (which most have shifted from "everything's a dollar!" to general low-price goods) provided better food, I would view them differently. If they learned from, or even partnered with, Sprouts (located in 19 states), they could offer less expensive, fresh produce to more communities.
seanmpuckett: I mean I can get a four pack of AAA batteries from the bodega for $5.99, or a five pack from Dollarama for $1.
One odd tangent I hadn't thought about until now: the "real" (compared to "retail" or MSRP) price of good is a weird thing, based on so many contingencies and relationships. You can see this most starkly in fact that at Costco you can get 40 AA Duracel batteries for $30 or 72 for $21 of the Kirkland brand, and as recently covered by Bloomberg, there's a no-brand reseller who is "fighting Amazon with price and quality," which is possible because Brandless only sells one type and size of a thing, all for $3. I'm assuming they, like dollar stores, can flatten price differences in some products by over-charging for some produces and under-charging for others, in addition to carrying little to no variety in products, and the fact that the majority of their products are not name-brand goods, which carries their own (prestige) mark-up.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
Some of us, on the brink of homelessness after 18 months unemployed, survived on this stuff. And out in rural America, there are fewer food banks and soup kitchens than you might think.
Personally, I'm not looking down on these stores, but sad that communities slide to the condition that Dollar General is the last "grocery" store in town, or in some cases the first new one to come in. If the Dollar stores (which most have shifted from "everything's a dollar!" to general low-price goods) provided better food, I would view them differently. If they learned from, or even partnered with, Sprouts (located in 19 states), they could offer less expensive, fresh produce to more communities.
seanmpuckett: I mean I can get a four pack of AAA batteries from the bodega for $5.99, or a five pack from Dollarama for $1.
One odd tangent I hadn't thought about until now: the "real" (compared to "retail" or MSRP) price of good is a weird thing, based on so many contingencies and relationships. You can see this most starkly in fact that at Costco you can get 40 AA Duracel batteries for $30 or 72 for $21 of the Kirkland brand, and as recently covered by Bloomberg, there's a no-brand reseller who is "fighting Amazon with price and quality," which is possible because Brandless only sells one type and size of a thing, all for $3. I'm assuming they, like dollar stores, can flatten price differences in some products by over-charging for some produces and under-charging for others, in addition to carrying little to no variety in products, and the fact that the majority of their products are not name-brand goods, which carries their own (prestige) mark-up.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:10 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
In my hometown, the Dollar General replaced a drive to the next town over for groceries. It's not attractive or impressive, but it appears to be a sign of growth there and makes the neighborhood more walkable for the residents nearby.
posted by Selena777 at 2:13 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 2:13 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
Oh yes, Dollar General, protector of pedophiles and enemy of Indigenous sovereignty.
posted by wreckingball at 2:24 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by wreckingball at 2:24 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
→ at Costco you can get 40 AA Duracell batteries for $30 or 72 for $21 of the Kirkland brand
Brands like Duracell are another good example of the hollowing-out of consumer goods. Many brands are coasting on brand loyalty when in reality the own-brands are better products. Duracell used to either last forever, or at least never leak when they finally give out. But now, they're just as likely to leak as the no-names. In the last few months, I've had a couple of expensive electronic items damaged by leaking Duracells. I'm not paying the brand premium any more.
(As to the Dollarama batteries, they have almost no capacity at all. Worst of all are their rechargeables which typically last all of five charges before going into that high-voltage, no-current death state that means a trip to the hazardous waste centre.)
posted by scruss at 2:29 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
Brands like Duracell are another good example of the hollowing-out of consumer goods. Many brands are coasting on brand loyalty when in reality the own-brands are better products. Duracell used to either last forever, or at least never leak when they finally give out. But now, they're just as likely to leak as the no-names. In the last few months, I've had a couple of expensive electronic items damaged by leaking Duracells. I'm not paying the brand premium any more.
(As to the Dollarama batteries, they have almost no capacity at all. Worst of all are their rechargeables which typically last all of five charges before going into that high-voltage, no-current death state that means a trip to the hazardous waste centre.)
posted by scruss at 2:29 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is bad? I thought we wanted to decrease the subsidies propping up non-economically viable areas. Shouldn't a business like this coming in and helping to hollow out what remains of small towns help make it less practical to live there encouraging people to move on to more dynamic areas? It's like the opposite of gentrification.
posted by Blue Tsunami at 2:29 PM on August 17, 2018
posted by Blue Tsunami at 2:29 PM on August 17, 2018
My wife picked up a pack of AAs from Dollarama. At first I was surprised that you could buy 4AAs for $1 or whatever it was being sold for. Then I looked at the batteries and they were labelled Zinc Carbon which I had never heard of before. Wikipedia tells me they suck compared to alkalines.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:31 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:31 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
Regional Japan has the same sort of ultra low-cost chain stores as well. Using economies of scale, the companies can sell groceries and other essentials at rock-bottom prices, making it hard for local or incumbent retailers to compete.
Our neighbourhood in Tsuruga is fairly low income (seniors + social housing) so we have a couple of these stores. Super convenient, although the quality of the food (most of it is processed) leaves something to be desired.
On the other hand, in an era of stagnating wages (in Japan and in the US and Canada), a lot of people need all of the help they can get.
posted by JamesBay at 2:33 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Our neighbourhood in Tsuruga is fairly low income (seniors + social housing) so we have a couple of these stores. Super convenient, although the quality of the food (most of it is processed) leaves something to be desired.
On the other hand, in an era of stagnating wages (in Japan and in the US and Canada), a lot of people need all of the help they can get.
posted by JamesBay at 2:33 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
Regional Japan has the same sort of ultra low-cost chain stores as well.
The US version of this is through a rapidly expanding Japanese company called Daiso. They are cooler than the dollar stores in my opinion. They are more of a suburban thing than a small town thing.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:51 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
The US version of this is through a rapidly expanding Japanese company called Daiso. They are cooler than the dollar stores in my opinion. They are more of a suburban thing than a small town thing.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:51 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
They're also cheap places for bottled water and snacks when driving across America.
posted by PHINC at 2:53 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by PHINC at 2:53 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
The neat thing about a $1.00 is this... If a brand wants access to the store, you can see exactly what they can do and build for a dollar...
Actually, unlike the other two "dollar" stores, Dollar General does not charge $1 for all items. A quick look at their current ad shows coffee for $5.95, Gatorade for $0.85, etc. In my experience it's just a small grocery store with prices comparable to other local grocery stores.
posted by mmoncur at 3:07 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
Actually, unlike the other two "dollar" stores, Dollar General does not charge $1 for all items. A quick look at their current ad shows coffee for $5.95, Gatorade for $0.85, etc. In my experience it's just a small grocery store with prices comparable to other local grocery stores.
posted by mmoncur at 3:07 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
I don't know if it's mentioned in any of the OP links but in my area, during the late 20th century, this niche in the retail economy was filled by small local chains of stores that sold goods manufactured to be inexpensive but also sold “salvaged” goods which were over-produced and sold at a loss, or damaged in a warehouse fire, or something like that. So, I wonder if increases in the efficacy of sales forecasts and insurance companies getting better at ensuring goods marked “destroyed” are actually destroyed has closed off those opportunities for smaller retailers.
posted by XMLicious at 3:22 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 3:22 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
I worked for a company that supplied various goods to dollar stores in Canada, and hoooo boy, the stories I could tell. Just… maybe don't eat too much of the food you find at the dollar store.
posted by rodlymight at 3:25 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by rodlymight at 3:25 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
The US version of this is through a rapidly expanding Japanese company called Daiso.
In Japan you usually find Daiso in shopping malls, and they don't sell food (interestingly, there's a Daiso in the Vancouver suburb of Richmond in a high-end mall called Aberdeen Centre).
The chain I'm thinking of in particular is called Genky. It's headquartered in Fukui and has expanded all over central Japan (a largely rural / exurban region of about 5-8 million people), typically in cities and regions "underserved" by incumbent retailers, either because the incumbents sell at a higher price point, or because the competition is smaller-scale and doesn't have the purchasing power that the Genky Group, which had an IPO a while ago and is well-capitalized, does. Genky is not the only low-cost retailer -- other regions have the same entrants.
Here's a few photos of the neighborhood Genky. There's a competing chain now across the street... and an older supermarket a block up.
That's also interesting -- the supermarket was part of a local chain that failed and was bought by yet another Fukui supermarket group. A little hard to see how the can stay in business now.
posted by JamesBay at 3:26 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
In Japan you usually find Daiso in shopping malls, and they don't sell food (interestingly, there's a Daiso in the Vancouver suburb of Richmond in a high-end mall called Aberdeen Centre).
The chain I'm thinking of in particular is called Genky. It's headquartered in Fukui and has expanded all over central Japan (a largely rural / exurban region of about 5-8 million people), typically in cities and regions "underserved" by incumbent retailers, either because the incumbents sell at a higher price point, or because the competition is smaller-scale and doesn't have the purchasing power that the Genky Group, which had an IPO a while ago and is well-capitalized, does. Genky is not the only low-cost retailer -- other regions have the same entrants.
Here's a few photos of the neighborhood Genky. There's a competing chain now across the street... and an older supermarket a block up.
That's also interesting -- the supermarket was part of a local chain that failed and was bought by yet another Fukui supermarket group. A little hard to see how the can stay in business now.
posted by JamesBay at 3:26 PM on August 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
And also, goes double for your pets.
posted by rodlymight at 3:26 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by rodlymight at 3:26 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
Building on the edge of town away from other stores is sometimes a feature for Dollar General, though. I know people in rural areas that might have to drive three miles to Dollar General or 10 miles into "town" to shop at an honestly not great mom and pop, or further still to get to a full size supermarket. Maybe there's a gas station with milk and beer along the way, but that's about it.
If you haven't been to one, Dollar General isn't really a dollar store like Dollar Tree in the sense that everything's 99 cents. It's more like the non-drug section of a Walgreens or CVS.
They serve similar roles in urban food deserts, and for whatever reason they feel less excessively corporate and bleak inside than some of the other chains around? The outsides are cheap and generic, but inside they seem better organized and less dystopian than Family Dollar and Dollar Tree, or even Walmart.
I don't shop there a lot, but I've been in Dollar Generals when employees actually cheerfully greet neighbors and regulars (as opposed to the robotic "welcome to Walgreens" greeting). A friend of mine just bought a surprisingly decent prepaid Android phone at Dollar General--it was marked as $19, and when it didn't scan right, the manager gave her an extra couple dollars off the price.
posted by smelendez at 3:32 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
If you haven't been to one, Dollar General isn't really a dollar store like Dollar Tree in the sense that everything's 99 cents. It's more like the non-drug section of a Walgreens or CVS.
They serve similar roles in urban food deserts, and for whatever reason they feel less excessively corporate and bleak inside than some of the other chains around? The outsides are cheap and generic, but inside they seem better organized and less dystopian than Family Dollar and Dollar Tree, or even Walmart.
I don't shop there a lot, but I've been in Dollar Generals when employees actually cheerfully greet neighbors and regulars (as opposed to the robotic "welcome to Walgreens" greeting). A friend of mine just bought a surprisingly decent prepaid Android phone at Dollar General--it was marked as $19, and when it didn't scan right, the manager gave her an extra couple dollars off the price.
posted by smelendez at 3:32 PM on August 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
The neat thing about a $1.00 is this... If a brand wants access to the store, you can see exactly what they can do and build for a dollar...
Even if everything were sold for a dollar (which is not the case), it's up to retailer to set prices. The markup on very cheap items will pay for "loss leaders", when expensive products are sold at a discount, in order to get people in the store.
The scale of the producer/brand also matters. The Ontario government, for whatever moronic reason, is trying to encourage breweries to sell "beer for a buck", but it's only the very large incumbents like Molson Coors and Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV that can do this.
The same rule applies for other retailers.
posted by JamesBay at 3:46 PM on August 17, 2018
Even if everything were sold for a dollar (which is not the case), it's up to retailer to set prices. The markup on very cheap items will pay for "loss leaders", when expensive products are sold at a discount, in order to get people in the store.
The scale of the producer/brand also matters. The Ontario government, for whatever moronic reason, is trying to encourage breweries to sell "beer for a buck", but it's only the very large incumbents like Molson Coors and Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV that can do this.
The same rule applies for other retailers.
posted by JamesBay at 3:46 PM on August 17, 2018
While many bemoan the proliferation of these stores, they've been around for quite some time. Before dollar stores, there were the "five and dime" stores of the 50s, 60s and 70s - which, given inflation, add up to being the same thing. What then was Woolworths or Ben Franklin just seems to now be Dollar General or Family Dollar, with a fairly similar modus operandi.
There's been a market for low-end variety stores for decades and decades, and it doesn't seem new to me. It should be noted that Wal-Mart and K-Mart sprung from Walton's Five & Dime and the S.S. Kresge five & dime stores.
posted by eschatfische at 4:14 PM on August 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
There's been a market for low-end variety stores for decades and decades, and it doesn't seem new to me. It should be noted that Wal-Mart and K-Mart sprung from Walton's Five & Dime and the S.S. Kresge five & dime stores.
posted by eschatfische at 4:14 PM on August 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
I searched thinking that gmaps would zoom out to show one 50-100 miles away but it looks like DG has taken over an established dollar (something, sorry don't recall, maybe 'tree') store in a non-upscale part of town.
posted by sammyo at 4:20 PM on August 17, 2018
posted by sammyo at 4:20 PM on August 17, 2018
No probably 'family' dollar.
(am from the earlier discussion a skeptic of the $ system but had to get a razor on a trip and generally the two blade gillette are significantly worthwhile but tried a pack at the (I think family) dollar and it was just right, so for one product, or batch having not bought since, was just right and a great bargain.)
posted by sammyo at 4:23 PM on August 17, 2018
(am from the earlier discussion a skeptic of the $ system but had to get a razor on a trip and generally the two blade gillette are significantly worthwhile but tried a pack at the (I think family) dollar and it was just right, so for one product, or batch having not bought since, was just right and a great bargain.)
posted by sammyo at 4:23 PM on August 17, 2018
I worked for a company that supplied various goods to dollar stores in Canada, and hoooo boy, the stories I could tell. Just… maybe don't eat too much of the food you find at the dollar store.
this seems like the kind of thing where you might actually want to tell those stories instead of just hinting at the horrors you are privileged to know!
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:32 PM on August 17, 2018 [26 favorites]
this seems like the kind of thing where you might actually want to tell those stories instead of just hinting at the horrors you are privileged to know!
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:32 PM on August 17, 2018 [26 favorites]
“A majority of people in Buhler that work, work somewhere else,” said Keith, who is also a long-distance truck driver. “Chances are they drive right by some chain store on their way home.”The small rural town where I grew up was like this (except for the remaining farmers) When I was living there, there were two gas station/convenience stores where poor folks without reliable transportation paid a little more for staples but were still able to get them. Last time I checked, both those stores are gone and I'm not sure how those people are coping now.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:47 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
I will freely admit that when I went to Canada back in '99, I took great joy in going to the Dollar Store. Not only was the stuff there better quality, but because of the exchange rate - it was the $0.67 store. Or the 3 of $2 store.
Now with the exchange rate being $0.76.... and the selection being largely standardized through the infiltrating of brands - I can honestly say the great wonders of Canada are now just a bit of an "oh." 4 for $3.00? Meh...
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:36 PM on August 17, 2018
Now with the exchange rate being $0.76.... and the selection being largely standardized through the infiltrating of brands - I can honestly say the great wonders of Canada are now just a bit of an "oh." 4 for $3.00? Meh...
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:36 PM on August 17, 2018
While many bemoan the proliferation of these stores, they've been around for quite some time
I don't disagree, but I recently got a chance to experience this continent in great detail* at about 10 mph over the course of 2+ months on my bicycle, and these articles put their finger on something that was bothering me. Dollar General was everywhere I biked, and I mean everywhere. I was constantly running across them, in no small part due to the routes I took as a cyclist, which invariably sent me through small towns both dying and thriving. And in the thriving towns l certainly didn't see them. Dollar General stores almost always only showed up when it was obvious the town was struggling.
I get that they either fulfill a need, or rather often end up doing so after first killing competition, but I'd never heard of them before my little jaunt. I absorbed a definitely predatory vibe from their placement, like an even more downscale Walmart. They've clearly seen the hellscape caused by Walmart's decimation of small town shops, and are swooping in to pick the bones of those too small for their competition's ambitions. Five & Dimes may have been around forever, but none of the ones in the past had access to the capital needed to drive all their competition out of business.
*Off topic, so I request you not address this link and instead stay focused on this current discussion, but if you'd like to see some photos, there's an Imgur album of the trip here.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 6:55 PM on August 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
I don't disagree, but I recently got a chance to experience this continent in great detail* at about 10 mph over the course of 2+ months on my bicycle, and these articles put their finger on something that was bothering me. Dollar General was everywhere I biked, and I mean everywhere. I was constantly running across them, in no small part due to the routes I took as a cyclist, which invariably sent me through small towns both dying and thriving. And in the thriving towns l certainly didn't see them. Dollar General stores almost always only showed up when it was obvious the town was struggling.
I get that they either fulfill a need, or rather often end up doing so after first killing competition, but I'd never heard of them before my little jaunt. I absorbed a definitely predatory vibe from their placement, like an even more downscale Walmart. They've clearly seen the hellscape caused by Walmart's decimation of small town shops, and are swooping in to pick the bones of those too small for their competition's ambitions. Five & Dimes may have been around forever, but none of the ones in the past had access to the capital needed to drive all their competition out of business.
*Off topic, so I request you not address this link and instead stay focused on this current discussion, but if you'd like to see some photos, there's an Imgur album of the trip here.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 6:55 PM on August 17, 2018 [11 favorites]
this seems like the kind of thing where you might actually want to tell those stories instead of just hinting at the horrors you are privileged to know!
They had an area for removing expiry dates. Trucks furtively loaded after dark on quiet streets. They changed the company name 3 times while I worked there.
posted by rodlymight at 7:10 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
They had an area for removing expiry dates. Trucks furtively loaded after dark on quiet streets. They changed the company name 3 times while I worked there.
posted by rodlymight at 7:10 PM on August 17, 2018 [8 favorites]
any portmanteau in a storm: " Then I looked at the batteries and they were labelled Zinc Carbon which I had never heard of before. Wikipedia tells me they suck compared to alkalines."
All letter batteries (A,AA,C,D etc.) used to be Zinc-Carbon. When alkalines were marketed in the late 60s they were an obvious immense improvement not only for energy density but also low self discharge. We don't much appreciate it now but it's the origin of the Energizer Bunny branding ("It just keeps going and going...") which was itself a response/parody of another early Alkaline brand: Duracell and their commercial featuring toy monkey drummers.
JamesBay: "The Ontario government, for whatever moronic reason, is trying to encourage breweries to sell "beer for a buck", but it's only the very large incumbents like Molson Coors and Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV that can do this. "
Not even that. The stories I've seen place the floor somewhere around $1.20/beer and none of the players want to sell at a buck. $1 a beer will only exist as a loss leader and Ford politicalsloganFever Dream.
posted by Mitheral at 7:59 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
All letter batteries (A,AA,C,D etc.) used to be Zinc-Carbon. When alkalines were marketed in the late 60s they were an obvious immense improvement not only for energy density but also low self discharge. We don't much appreciate it now but it's the origin of the Energizer Bunny branding ("It just keeps going and going...") which was itself a response/parody of another early Alkaline brand: Duracell and their commercial featuring toy monkey drummers.
JamesBay: "The Ontario government, for whatever moronic reason, is trying to encourage breweries to sell "beer for a buck", but it's only the very large incumbents like Molson Coors and Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV that can do this. "
Not even that. The stories I've seen place the floor somewhere around $1.20/beer and none of the players want to sell at a buck. $1 a beer will only exist as a loss leader and Ford political
posted by Mitheral at 7:59 PM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
that photo of the abandoned main street with the caption that the last food store closed 20 yrs ago.. man.. setting aside politics for just a theoretical moment, can you imagine what a dozen or so refugee families would do to spice up that economy? i mean, they're not going to build a factory to employ the town, but just the entrepreneurial spirit to even sell food out of a truck would seem to help these places.
posted by wibari at 8:39 PM on August 17, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by wibari at 8:39 PM on August 17, 2018 [12 favorites]
los pantalones del muerte: I also saw Dollar Generals in a lot of the pass-through and overnight camping towns along RAGBRAI. Not only do they tend to be in the smaller, dustier towns (although not the very smallest; there are places that are too small and/or poor for even a Dollar General), but they also tend to be a bit off the beaten track, and they weren't swarmed by cyclists, unlike convenience stores; most RAGBRAI riders tend to be middle class, and I think that there was a bit of class snobbery (convenience stores were OK because middle class people stop there when they get gas). Another depressing sign was that they kept metallic spray paint behind the counter with the liquor and smokes; metallic spray paint is favored by paint huffers.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:04 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:04 PM on August 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
If I wasn't worried about being murdered for being gay and trans I would move to a small town and open shops, art coops and event spaces and host creative events like what my friends are doing right now Lockhart Texas.
We can revitalize the heartland of the US, people just need to move there and be interesting people.
I personally am just trying to get the hell out of the US for a little while but I do see myself eventually ending up in a grain silo in some random byway in the middle of nowhere America doing mega cool creative shit on the cheap.
posted by nikaspark at 9:24 PM on August 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
We can revitalize the heartland of the US, people just need to move there and be interesting people.
I personally am just trying to get the hell out of the US for a little while but I do see myself eventually ending up in a grain silo in some random byway in the middle of nowhere America doing mega cool creative shit on the cheap.
posted by nikaspark at 9:24 PM on August 17, 2018 [7 favorites]
As CEO Todd Vasos told analysts at its 2016 investor day conference, "this economy is going to continue to create our core consumer..."
posted by doctornemo at 5:18 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by doctornemo at 5:18 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Am I the only one who sees dollar stores as primarily A) a source of reasonably-priced basic commodities (plastic spatulas, wrapping paper, etc.) that would normally be marked up to four or five times the price and B) a better substitute for a grocery store than a pharmacy or gas station in places where real groceries don't exist? I don't see them as being inherently any more evil or exploitative than other types of retail business. It's not like they're payday loan companies or something.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:57 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 5:57 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Also, no offense but did you just say that what rural communities need in order to save them from themselves is for urban people to move in and show them how to do things? OK, I get that that's not how you meant it, but maybe think a little more about how what you said might sound to people actually living in rural places.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:01 AM on August 18, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:01 AM on August 18, 2018 [15 favorites]
In Denmark, the equivalent of the areas described here is called "The Rotten Banana". And what's happening now is that creative and entrepreneural people (including yours truly) are moving out here for the cheaper rents and amazing spaces. I have a deep connection to my particular space, so I'm not that much of a newcomer, and I can see there is a totally different attitude today, from when I came here to live with my grandparents 40+ years ago. Back then, you were still a newcomer if it was your granddad who had moved here, and people were suspicious. Now, every time I meet someone new, they are extremely welcoming and helpful, and I hear the same from all the *real* newcomers. What was once an inward looking community with little development is now thriving, with lot's of opportunity for the young.
Sort of back to the subject: some of the businesses that have arrived during the last five-ish years are food producers. My neighbors have humanely raised pork and beef. A guy five miles away bakes amazing bread. A couple even further away grow vegetables, but set up stands all around where they know people. All of these people started out doing this on a miniature scale next to hard jobs far away, and can now more or less live from it. The pork neighbor found some butchers at a nearby pork-factory who were setting up a weekend shop in an old shipping container, and they work together. Within just a year, they were locally famous and now they deliver to Copenhagen Michelin places. (Which means less pork for me, sadly). A lot of these friends and neighbors were born and raised in the general area, but the arrival of people with wider networks meant they could reach further. They were tired of poverty and our local equivalent of dollar stores, too, but they needed new friends and the internet for alternatives.
I think that young major in the article is on to something.
posted by mumimor at 8:23 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Sort of back to the subject: some of the businesses that have arrived during the last five-ish years are food producers. My neighbors have humanely raised pork and beef. A guy five miles away bakes amazing bread. A couple even further away grow vegetables, but set up stands all around where they know people. All of these people started out doing this on a miniature scale next to hard jobs far away, and can now more or less live from it. The pork neighbor found some butchers at a nearby pork-factory who were setting up a weekend shop in an old shipping container, and they work together. Within just a year, they were locally famous and now they deliver to Copenhagen Michelin places. (Which means less pork for me, sadly). A lot of these friends and neighbors were born and raised in the general area, but the arrival of people with wider networks meant they could reach further. They were tired of poverty and our local equivalent of dollar stores, too, but they needed new friends and the internet for alternatives.
I think that young major in the article is on to something.
posted by mumimor at 8:23 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
I've honestly never heard of this brand before.
Neither had I, luriete. But in the early 90s I decided to get into the stock market, initially purchasing stock for two companies: a smart pick, and one from instinct. The smart pick was Dollar General, #2 on a list I saw in some financial magazine, and they were great, splitting and increasing regularly. I shoulda put all of my money on Dollar -- but then in 2007 they went private, and bought back their stock, but at least I made something -- unlike with the instinctive choice, which was for Marvel Comics, which I thought would just get bigger and better. And now, they have -- but first, they went bankrupt, and as I watched the value of that stock gradually became worthless.
Adventures in investing -- but of course, YMMV.
posted by Rash at 8:47 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Neither had I, luriete. But in the early 90s I decided to get into the stock market, initially purchasing stock for two companies: a smart pick, and one from instinct. The smart pick was Dollar General, #2 on a list I saw in some financial magazine, and they were great, splitting and increasing regularly. I shoulda put all of my money on Dollar -- but then in 2007 they went private, and bought back their stock, but at least I made something -- unlike with the instinctive choice, which was for Marvel Comics, which I thought would just get bigger and better. And now, they have -- but first, they went bankrupt, and as I watched the value of that stock gradually became worthless.
Adventures in investing -- but of course, YMMV.
posted by Rash at 8:47 AM on August 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Am I the only one who sees dollar stores as primarily A) a source of reasonably-priced basic commodities (plastic spatulas, wrapping paper, etc.) that would normally be marked up to four or five times the price and B) a better substitute for a grocery store than a pharmacy or gas station in places where real groceries don't exist?
I don't think anyone in here is objecting to dollar stores in general. I see mostly people who don't like what they've heard or seen of Dollar General specifically. And, as it's been mentioneded in both the main article found in comments that Dollar General is not a dollar store.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2018
I don't think anyone in here is objecting to dollar stores in general. I see mostly people who don't like what they've heard or seen of Dollar General specifically. And, as it's been mentioneded in both the main article found in comments that Dollar General is not a dollar store.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:09 AM on August 18, 2018
" small local chains of stores that sold goods manufactured to be inexpensive but also sold “salvaged” goods which were over-produced and sold at a loss, or damaged in a warehouse fire, or something like that."
There was one of these right across from the dollar store in the mall nearest to where I grew up. It was cold the D&K Store, and you didn't always know what you would find when you went in. There were two things they consistently had, which I loved: a big bin of slightly irregular ladies' cotton underpants for .50 or $1, and a shelf of nice bath towels at $1.50. Sometimes the towels would have a little snag, or a pattern would be printed a little crooked, but they were still high quality and lasted for years. I never personally saw anything that was irregular about the Underpants. It was always fun picking through them to find the prettiest ones in my size. But there were always bulk stacks of some new random item, like sneakers or light bulbs or welcome mats. They weren't a dollar store, but at least they didn't have a misleading name like Dollar General.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
There was one of these right across from the dollar store in the mall nearest to where I grew up. It was cold the D&K Store, and you didn't always know what you would find when you went in. There were two things they consistently had, which I loved: a big bin of slightly irregular ladies' cotton underpants for .50 or $1, and a shelf of nice bath towels at $1.50. Sometimes the towels would have a little snag, or a pattern would be printed a little crooked, but they were still high quality and lasted for years. I never personally saw anything that was irregular about the Underpants. It was always fun picking through them to find the prettiest ones in my size. But there were always bulk stacks of some new random item, like sneakers or light bulbs or welcome mats. They weren't a dollar store, but at least they didn't have a misleading name like Dollar General.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:19 AM on August 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
I thought everyone knew that the whole "everything's a dollar" ship sailed long ago. When folks around me say "dollar store," they just mean places like Dollar General and Family Dollar that are full of extremely cheap sundries that are some combination of no-brand, low quality, small portions, and overstock from normal chains. Which a lot of the time is perfectly fine (why pay more for a set of bamboo cooking utensils?) or simply all that you can afford. The ones that literally sell everything for a dollar are pretty rare now, and don't seem to be able to offer much at that price that people would actually want. The "dollar" part of the name is kind of vestigial, and just serves to tell you what genre of store it's going to be.
Not surprised that they treat their workers like shit, but then so does Amazon and almost every other retailer out there, from the giant megachains on down to the mythical mom & pops.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:59 AM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
Not surprised that they treat their workers like shit, but then so does Amazon and almost every other retailer out there, from the giant megachains on down to the mythical mom & pops.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 10:59 AM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
I thought everyone knew that the whole "everything's a dollar" ship sailed long ago. When folks around me say "dollar store," they just mean places like Dollar General and Family Dollar that are full of extremely cheap sundries that are some combination of no-brand, low quality, small portions, and overstock from normal chains.
My best friend's dad manages a Dollar General and we've been round and round on whether it's a dollar store. She says no, on the grounds that not everything is a dollar. I say yes, on the grounds that no one expects everything to be a dollar.
Everything at Dollar Tree is actually a dollar, though.
posted by hoyland at 12:35 PM on August 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
My best friend's dad manages a Dollar General and we've been round and round on whether it's a dollar store. She says no, on the grounds that not everything is a dollar. I say yes, on the grounds that no one expects everything to be a dollar.
Everything at Dollar Tree is actually a dollar, though.
posted by hoyland at 12:35 PM on August 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
small local chains of stores that sold goods manufactured to be inexpensive but also sold “salvaged” goods which were over-produced and sold at a loss, or damaged in a warehouse fire, or something like that
Oh those stores are still around, but they're becoming consolidated into chains too, rather than local independents. Ollie's Bargain Outlet (Nasdaq: OLLI) seems to be doing pretty well, opening up new locations (in the Mid-Atlantic, mostly). They just opened a new DC in Georgia, so I think they plan to continue expanding further south in the near future.
I've never been really clear on how much stuff at Ollie's is actually surplus/salvage and how much is stuff they've had manufactured for them very cheaply. It seems to be a mix. There's some stuff in there that's basically just cheaply-made junk, but also true irregulars and overruns which can be pretty good deals (similar stuff to The Underpants Monster's very eponysterical finds).
When I lived up north, I used to like going to the local Marden's Surplus & Salvage, and at least a decade or so ago, they had legit salvage goods. Like stuff that had clearly gotten wet or hail-damaged, showing up like clockwork a few months after a hurricane.
Mardens had the stickiest goddamn price tags, though—presumably to discourage people from shoplifting by tag-swapping—I once bought a small laser printer there with a big scuff mark on it, and the Marden's tag was on the front of it for almost two decades: at first because I couldn't decide what solvent to use to take it off, then later because I liked the reminder of where it had come from and how little it'd cost me, for something that got me through two thesis projects and who knows what else.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:57 PM on August 18, 2018
Oh those stores are still around, but they're becoming consolidated into chains too, rather than local independents. Ollie's Bargain Outlet (Nasdaq: OLLI) seems to be doing pretty well, opening up new locations (in the Mid-Atlantic, mostly). They just opened a new DC in Georgia, so I think they plan to continue expanding further south in the near future.
I've never been really clear on how much stuff at Ollie's is actually surplus/salvage and how much is stuff they've had manufactured for them very cheaply. It seems to be a mix. There's some stuff in there that's basically just cheaply-made junk, but also true irregulars and overruns which can be pretty good deals (similar stuff to The Underpants Monster's very eponysterical finds).
When I lived up north, I used to like going to the local Marden's Surplus & Salvage, and at least a decade or so ago, they had legit salvage goods. Like stuff that had clearly gotten wet or hail-damaged, showing up like clockwork a few months after a hurricane.
Mardens had the stickiest goddamn price tags, though—presumably to discourage people from shoplifting by tag-swapping—I once bought a small laser printer there with a big scuff mark on it, and the Marden's tag was on the front of it for almost two decades: at first because I couldn't decide what solvent to use to take it off, then later because I liked the reminder of where it had come from and how little it'd cost me, for something that got me through two thesis projects and who knows what else.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:57 PM on August 18, 2018
"She says no, on the grounds that not everything is a dollar. I say yes, on the grounds that no one expects everything to be a dollar. "
When I was a kid in the 70s we still referred to "dime stores" but it had been decades since they were actual dime stores. Dollar stores are just following the same trajectory.
Speaking of dime stores, any Seattleites on this thread may remember Fuji's in Wallingford... dear lord, I miss that store.
posted by litlnemo at 1:20 PM on August 18, 2018
When I was a kid in the 70s we still referred to "dime stores" but it had been decades since they were actual dime stores. Dollar stores are just following the same trajectory.
Speaking of dime stores, any Seattleites on this thread may remember Fuji's in Wallingford... dear lord, I miss that store.
posted by litlnemo at 1:20 PM on August 18, 2018
We can revitalize the heartland of the US, people just need to move there and be interesting people.
I hate to say it, but this is woefully naïve (and more than a little elitist toward the people who live in these towns).
These towns don't lack cultural scenes because it's simply never occurred to residents to create one. It's because art co-ops and event spaces are luxuries, and luxuries cost money. When your local government can't afford to provide basic services, when your schools are crumbling, when chronic disease is endemic, when the best grocery store you can attract to your town is Dollar General (because people can't afford to shop at the better chains) – your problem is not a lack of funky art galleries. An economy has to be able to provide basic goods and services before it can support a creative class.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:45 PM on August 18, 2018 [24 favorites]
I hate to say it, but this is woefully naïve (and more than a little elitist toward the people who live in these towns).
These towns don't lack cultural scenes because it's simply never occurred to residents to create one. It's because art co-ops and event spaces are luxuries, and luxuries cost money. When your local government can't afford to provide basic services, when your schools are crumbling, when chronic disease is endemic, when the best grocery store you can attract to your town is Dollar General (because people can't afford to shop at the better chains) – your problem is not a lack of funky art galleries. An economy has to be able to provide basic goods and services before it can support a creative class.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 1:45 PM on August 18, 2018 [24 favorites]
When your local government can't afford to provide basic services, when your schools are crumbling, when chronic disease is endemic
And the problem (I'm not going to speak universally, but for the few that I've lived in) is that the people who run the towns like them that way. They run on a (IMO) perverse version of freedom that means you can pile your junk to the sky in the front yard and you get pissed if taxes increase by even a dollar. They don't care if the streets crumble to dust or if the kids aren't highly educated. They don't want jobs in town either. They don't want new ideas.
posted by The_Vegetables at 6:21 PM on August 18, 2018 [6 favorites]
And the problem (I'm not going to speak universally, but for the few that I've lived in) is that the people who run the towns like them that way. They run on a (IMO) perverse version of freedom that means you can pile your junk to the sky in the front yard and you get pissed if taxes increase by even a dollar. They don't care if the streets crumble to dust or if the kids aren't highly educated. They don't want jobs in town either. They don't want new ideas.
posted by The_Vegetables at 6:21 PM on August 18, 2018 [6 favorites]
You’re talking to someone who knows how to slaughter pigs and prep chickens for frying. But thanks anyway for making assumptions. I grew up spending my summers and holidays being raised on a farm in Whitney Texas. Hicks and artists are also trans and gay too!
posted by nikaspark at 6:46 PM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by nikaspark at 6:46 PM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
people just need to move there and be interesting people
Oh come on now.
I am no huge fan of small-town America, but it is certainly not some discrete monad, and this is the kind of comment that would make e.g. my brother (sculptor, jeweler, avid outdoors-type, oil refinery operator, lives in a town pop. 8000 soaking wet) sprain his eyes rolling them at you.
I grew up spending my summers and holidays being raised on a farm in Whitney Texas Oh seriously come on. That isn't a particularly strong appeal to authority, especially given many of the other comments here from people who literally live in and have spent their lives in these places. Also Hicks and artists are also trans and gay too kinda contradicts the previous remark more than reinforcing it.
There are plenty of interesting people in small towns, and cities are full of unimaginative shits just like everywhere else, and suburbanites are truly the worst except when they aren't. Can we drop this weird elitist city mouse/country mouse stuff and talk about TFA or talk shit about weird corporate takeovers, uneven distribution of resources, or the bizarreness of late capitalism in the US?
posted by aspersioncast at 8:38 PM on August 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
Oh come on now.
I am no huge fan of small-town America, but it is certainly not some discrete monad, and this is the kind of comment that would make e.g. my brother (sculptor, jeweler, avid outdoors-type, oil refinery operator, lives in a town pop. 8000 soaking wet) sprain his eyes rolling them at you.
I grew up spending my summers and holidays being raised on a farm in Whitney Texas Oh seriously come on. That isn't a particularly strong appeal to authority, especially given many of the other comments here from people who literally live in and have spent their lives in these places. Also Hicks and artists are also trans and gay too kinda contradicts the previous remark more than reinforcing it.
There are plenty of interesting people in small towns, and cities are full of unimaginative shits just like everywhere else, and suburbanites are truly the worst except when they aren't. Can we drop this weird elitist city mouse/country mouse stuff and talk about TFA or talk shit about weird corporate takeovers, uneven distribution of resources, or the bizarreness of late capitalism in the US?
posted by aspersioncast at 8:38 PM on August 18, 2018 [12 favorites]
normally be marked up to four or five times the price
I wish retail pricing was that easy. The gross margins at Dollar General are about 31-32%. Target is at 29-30%.
There is a deep cynicism in this business model, like calling it Dollar General or a dollar store when the prices aren’t $1. It drives the perception that their prices are low and you’re getting greater value, and those other guys are sticking it to you with jacked-up prices and what must be fat margins.
posted by jimw at 10:02 PM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
I wish retail pricing was that easy. The gross margins at Dollar General are about 31-32%. Target is at 29-30%.
There is a deep cynicism in this business model, like calling it Dollar General or a dollar store when the prices aren’t $1. It drives the perception that their prices are low and you’re getting greater value, and those other guys are sticking it to you with jacked-up prices and what must be fat margins.
posted by jimw at 10:02 PM on August 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
And the problem (I'm not going to speak universally, but for the few that I've lived in) is that the people who run the towns like them that way. They run on a (IMO) perverse version of freedom that means you can pile your junk to the sky in the front yard and you get pissed if taxes increase by even a dollar. They don't care if the streets crumble to dust or if the kids aren't highly educated. They don't want jobs in town either. They don't want new ideas.
That's absolutely what the town I grew up in was like. BINGO x 100.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:19 AM on August 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
That's absolutely what the town I grew up in was like. BINGO x 100.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:19 AM on August 19, 2018 [4 favorites]
The thing that always bothers me about these threads, "How do we save towns/cities/neighborhoods from x? All we have to do is y and z!"
I'm generally of the position that we not do anything, and let towns/cities/neighborhoods thrive or wither on their own merit. We don't have to save a place that has little value to us. It's one thing when a place is seeking help. It's another to foist help upon it. Hell, sometimes a place seeking help doesn't want the kind of help you're willing to give. As well intentioned as "lets move there and make it a cool place" seems to be, if you're doing that with the expectation that you'll be appreciated, dream on. How many threads here on MetaFilter ever celebrate the newcomers to a community, breathing in new life, changing the demographics and character, raising property values, prices, taxes, etc? If you move somewhere because you need a cheap place to live, pursue your own interests, or see an opportunity to *gasp* make a profit *gasp*, that is at least something normal people can understand. If you're doing it because you care so much you want to save the locals with your glorious presence, you're more likely to be greeted with a "fuck you very much for saving us from our dreary selves". And rightly so.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:55 AM on August 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm generally of the position that we not do anything, and let towns/cities/neighborhoods thrive or wither on their own merit. We don't have to save a place that has little value to us. It's one thing when a place is seeking help. It's another to foist help upon it. Hell, sometimes a place seeking help doesn't want the kind of help you're willing to give. As well intentioned as "lets move there and make it a cool place" seems to be, if you're doing that with the expectation that you'll be appreciated, dream on. How many threads here on MetaFilter ever celebrate the newcomers to a community, breathing in new life, changing the demographics and character, raising property values, prices, taxes, etc? If you move somewhere because you need a cheap place to live, pursue your own interests, or see an opportunity to *gasp* make a profit *gasp*, that is at least something normal people can understand. If you're doing it because you care so much you want to save the locals with your glorious presence, you're more likely to be greeted with a "fuck you very much for saving us from our dreary selves". And rightly so.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:55 AM on August 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
Hell, sometimes a place seeking help doesn't want the kind of help you're willing to give.
QFT.
See also: The Peace Corps., Teach for America, and a large percentage of missionary efforts in sub-Saharan Africa.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:54 AM on August 20, 2018
QFT.
See also: The Peace Corps., Teach for America, and a large percentage of missionary efforts in sub-Saharan Africa.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:54 AM on August 20, 2018
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We also have a Dollar Tree for extra shopping pleasure.
The "dollars" are there, but couldn't we at least have a Family Dollar instead of another Dollar General?
posted by mightshould at 11:42 AM on August 17, 2018 [5 favorites]