Neuropolitics
August 20, 2018 12:38 PM Subscribe
The “neuropolitics” consultants who hack voters’ brains: These experts say they can divine political preferences you can’t express from signals you don’t know you’re producing (Elizabeth Svoboda, MIT Technology Review).
"You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means..."
On the contrary, seems like you're using an antiquated definition no longer compatible with modern thought (to be fair, "truth" has always had some degree of mutability, trust no human who ever claims to have an objective measure of anything).
Dystopic stuff aside, I love how we continue to learn how manipulable we are on every level. Free will itself seems more than ever to be a complex illusion, we're just predictable machines like anything else in the universe. Input it, input out -- and we find out more of the middle bit between every year and more importantly the parts of the middle bit we use to sell lies to ourselves. It's just a shame it's all being put to use for evil ends, advertising and politics mostly. Imagine if half the effort going into shit like this went into figuring out how to manipulate people into better, happier people.
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:23 PM on August 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
On the contrary, seems like you're using an antiquated definition no longer compatible with modern thought (to be fair, "truth" has always had some degree of mutability, trust no human who ever claims to have an objective measure of anything).
Dystopic stuff aside, I love how we continue to learn how manipulable we are on every level. Free will itself seems more than ever to be a complex illusion, we're just predictable machines like anything else in the universe. Input it, input out -- and we find out more of the middle bit between every year and more importantly the parts of the middle bit we use to sell lies to ourselves. It's just a shame it's all being put to use for evil ends, advertising and politics mostly. Imagine if half the effort going into shit like this went into figuring out how to manipulate people into better, happier people.
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:23 PM on August 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
This seems promising, but it would be nice to see some objective performance numbers compared to the older techniques of neuro-linguistic programming, mesmerism, summoning demons to possess people, and learning people's True Names to compel them with words of power.
posted by Pyry at 1:47 PM on August 20, 2018 [28 favorites]
posted by Pyry at 1:47 PM on August 20, 2018 [28 favorites]
True Names are very powerful, yes, but the problem is you'll never learn enough voters' True Names to sway anything more important than a small town's local election. It would almost be faster to develop policies that address voters' needs and convince them with reasoned arguments! So clearly a total non-starter.
posted by Pyry at 2:35 PM on August 20, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by Pyry at 2:35 PM on August 20, 2018 [10 favorites]
While it’s not certain the Trump or Clinton campaigns used neuromarketing in 2016, SCL—the parent firm of Cambridge Analytica, which worked for Trump—has reportedly used facial analysis to assess whether what voters said they felt about candidates was genuine.
And all indications now is that Cambridge Analytica could do none of the things they promised, but were extraordinarily effective at throwing buzzwords at credible politicians who lack science backgrounds in exchange for huge amounts of cash.
So, caveat emptor, methinks.
posted by lumpenprole at 2:49 PM on August 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
And all indications now is that Cambridge Analytica could do none of the things they promised, but were extraordinarily effective at throwing buzzwords at credible politicians who lack science backgrounds in exchange for huge amounts of cash.
So, caveat emptor, methinks.
posted by lumpenprole at 2:49 PM on August 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
Can it divine my preference for honest, competent politicians?
posted by krisjohn at 3:41 PM on August 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by krisjohn at 3:41 PM on August 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
"Electrical activity on the left side of the cerebral cortex suggests people are working hard to understand a political message." Oh puh-leese. Most of this is neuro-bollocks. Good survey research and talented focus group moderation are worth hiring consultants for. But any politician who hires someone peddling this neuro-nonsense isn't smart enough to hold public office.
posted by PhineasGage at 3:41 PM on August 20, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by PhineasGage at 3:41 PM on August 20, 2018 [12 favorites]
Yeah, but, dude, your relationship with neurology is sort of famously fraught.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:17 PM on August 20, 2018 [19 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 4:17 PM on August 20, 2018 [19 favorites]
So if you can't express it, you don't know you're... what, emanating it? - and the ballot is secret, this is falsifiable how?
posted by aurelian at 5:10 PM on August 20, 2018
posted by aurelian at 5:10 PM on August 20, 2018
True Names are very powerful, yes, but the problem is you'll never learn enough voters' True Names to sway anything more important than a small town's local election.
You are ignoring the very real danger of neural net generated True Name lists. Sure, there are a lot of Not True Names there, but with a high enough volume.....
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:13 PM on August 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
You are ignoring the very real danger of neural net generated True Name lists. Sure, there are a lot of Not True Names there, but with a high enough volume.....
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:13 PM on August 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but, dude, your relationship with neurology is sort of famously fraught.
Careful. He's pretty irritable since... you know.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 5:37 PM on August 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
Careful. He's pretty irritable since... you know.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 5:37 PM on August 20, 2018 [6 favorites]
DON'T MENTION THE TAMPING IRON STRAIGHT THROUGH HIS NOGGIN AND EVERYONE STICKING THEIR FINGERS IN HIS BRAIN GOO
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:42 PM on August 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:42 PM on August 20, 2018 [5 favorites]
I resisted posting something fairly cynical earlier, but I do want to say that in my (fairly well informed, I am a professor in a cognitive science department who teaches among other things about manipulation in advertising) opinion, "neuromarketing" is simply ignorable. It's largely using what's sometimes been called explanatory neurophilia as (ironically) a manipulation technique to extract money from other marketers.
posted by advil at 6:12 PM on August 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by advil at 6:12 PM on August 20, 2018 [8 favorites]
Dystopic stuff aside, I love how we continue to learn how manipulable we are on every level.
Until we're not. We go through this every few years: we have scientists show us how we can be manipulated and hacked, and then something happens, and the crowd cannot be controllable and the behaviour cannot be predicted.
The model and the gadgets become outmoded, the ruse becomes obvious and silly, and then a new analogy and framework with new toys crops us, and then the same scary story comes out.
Healthy people are active, not prone to be manipulated, and not predictable. I don't put much stock in this game because I am old enough to remember the old ones, and active enough to do my research to things that happened before I was born.
We always underestimate the power of the human mind and spirit. We assume the world -- except us! -- are a bunch of helpless morons.
Once upon a time people tried to manipulate people through religion, and now it's science. When science wears out its welcome, some other group of meddlers will make the same decree, and children will still misbehave in appallingly new and innovative ways, as the adults do the same, and vote for whoever they want as they mess with the minds of pollsters and political campaigns...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 7:32 PM on August 20, 2018
Until we're not. We go through this every few years: we have scientists show us how we can be manipulated and hacked, and then something happens, and the crowd cannot be controllable and the behaviour cannot be predicted.
The model and the gadgets become outmoded, the ruse becomes obvious and silly, and then a new analogy and framework with new toys crops us, and then the same scary story comes out.
Healthy people are active, not prone to be manipulated, and not predictable. I don't put much stock in this game because I am old enough to remember the old ones, and active enough to do my research to things that happened before I was born.
We always underestimate the power of the human mind and spirit. We assume the world -- except us! -- are a bunch of helpless morons.
Once upon a time people tried to manipulate people through religion, and now it's science. When science wears out its welcome, some other group of meddlers will make the same decree, and children will still misbehave in appallingly new and innovative ways, as the adults do the same, and vote for whoever they want as they mess with the minds of pollsters and political campaigns...
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 7:32 PM on August 20, 2018
"These experts say they can divine political preferences you can’t express from signals you don’t know you’re producing."
A lot of people can do that. It's called cold reading.
posted by Billiken at 4:49 AM on August 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
A lot of people can do that. It's called cold reading.
posted by Billiken at 4:49 AM on August 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
In these studies, involving anywhere from a dozen to a hundred people
(thinking face emoticon)
posted by Damienmce at 8:33 AM on August 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
(thinking face emoticon)
posted by Damienmce at 8:33 AM on August 21, 2018 [1 favorite]
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You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means...
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:49 PM on August 20, 2018 [2 favorites]