June 5, 2002

5:13 PM

For all those Asian fetishists out there..Want to learn to pick up Asian women? Understand us better? Then take our class! Just when you thought you saw it all...
posted by zinegurl (95 comments total)

what's the point of telling us if we can't enroll!??!

*sob*
posted by jcterminal at 5:16 PM on June 5, 2002

This is what it told me:

"INSERT INTO QUINN.VISITOR_LOG (VISIT_DATE,CITY,IP_ADDRESS,BROWSER,VISITOR_ID) VALUES ({ ts '2002-06-05 17:15:29' },'NY',?,?,10232973296739)"

Odd advice, but if you say so...
posted by jonmc at 5:16 PM on June 5, 2002

Poor Quinn! He gets a log inserted into him! Perhaps it's the goatse.cx guy...

Seriously, even by Learning Annex standards that seemed like a silly subject. That's probably why it got cancelled...
posted by clevershark at 5:35 PM on June 5, 2002

And here I thought I could get away with simply wearing a Looking for a Japanese Girlfriend t-shirt.
posted by MegoSteve at 5:40 PM on June 5, 2002

Course # 911NNY

THIS COURSE HELPS THE TERRORISTS! Don't take it.

Seriously, though, do Asian men find Caucasian women as exotic as do many Caucasian men find Asian women exotic? This has been fascinating to me ever since I had let someone go for having 23 gigs of L33t AZi4N Pr0n on our company's ftp server. The employee told me that he was 'helpless' against this compulsion. I believed him.
posted by WolfDaddy at 5:44 PM on June 5, 2002

I think zinegurl is just a Learning Annex shill trying to get you to go and sign up. Or an anti-Learning Annex shill trying to get you to hate the Learning Annex. I still haven't got this viral marketing thing down. I guess Ms. Ming Tan, the would-be instructor, should try to find a Learning Annex course on that so she can get students to sign up.
posted by Salmonberry at 5:45 PM on June 5, 2002

God damn, you half-Japanese girls do it to me every time.
posted by darukaru at 5:55 PM on June 5, 2002

I want to know the eleven things you should never say to an Asian woman. I'm guessing "Me so horny, me love you long time" is one of them. If I were Asian that would be at the top of my list of "Ways to Really Ensure That I Will Never Date You".
posted by iconomy at 6:03 PM on June 5, 2002

Could someone pull some strings to get my friend Rivers in?
posted by yerfatma at 6:27 PM on June 5, 2002

[grumble]

As someone whose wife is Korean, not because she's Korean, but because I happened to fall in love with her and she me, and all good things emanated from that, I am really tired of assumptions that because my partner is an Asian woman (ooh eek! racially miscegenation ahoy!) that I have an 'Asian girl fetish'. Just the opposite, in my case.

I'm just sayin'. Focus on race is infantile, and occupies what is to me an amazingly large space in people's minds in America.

[/grumble]


Wolfdaddy : To generalize, Korean men I've known tend to think of western women as shameless sluts who will drop trou at the slightest opportunity. This is a relatively common perception throughout Asia, apparently. Thank Hollywood, and the pr0n industry. There's lust there, but it certainly isn't of the same tenor.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:32 PM on June 5, 2002

the big bad chinese mama is ready for ya, asswipe.
posted by lescour at 6:35 PM on June 5, 2002

stavros, I'm shocked! shocked! that you have a comment in this thread.
posted by y2karl at 6:48 PM on June 5, 2002

...smartass.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:53 PM on June 5, 2002

I want to know the eleven things you should never say to an Asian woman.

Tell me about it. I moused over that sentance hoping it would be a link. I like to think the generalizations and ham-handed questions would be endlessly entertaining.
posted by skallas at 7:06 PM on June 5, 2002

Just as a public service for skallas (and any other interested parties), I've written up the Ten Things You Should Never Say To A Korean Girl at my blog.

Disclaimer : intent is humor. No responsibility is acknowledged for any negative results from following aforementioned advice.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:22 PM on June 5, 2002

i wrote a tale about this very thing on my own site as well, since my wife is chinese and i'm a gwi lo.

for those interested, it's number 50, entitled: oh, shut up
posted by bwg at 8:15 PM on June 5, 2002

Much to an acquaintances' delight they seem to like body hair.
"OH King Kong" etc
posted by johnny7 at 8:22 PM on June 5, 2002

Good stuff, bwg. Thanks!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:28 PM on June 5, 2002

And then there's "How to get laid in Japan" that I saw linked by Zannah.
posted by SiW at 9:02 PM on June 5, 2002

"I want to know the eleven things you should never say to an Asian woman. "

"I'm a harmonica player" ought to be right up there, assuming she's heard the joke.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:46 PM on June 5, 2002

not to sound racist, but i'd never date an asian woman... never.

my life has been filled with enough of them (filipinas), and i'm for certain that all asian girls will only grow up to be as crazy as their mothers.

never
posted by lotsofno at 10:42 PM on June 5, 2002

I really think that there are few things that you could say to a Korean woman to offend her. I spent a year in Seoul when I was 19. In the U.S., I was just another tall, thin, uncoordinated white guy.
In S. Korea, however, I was a porn star. Get beer, go to a nadirban, karaoke a Barry Manilow or Tom Jones song. The women line up to be your bride.
posted by ttrendel at 11:19 PM on June 5, 2002

my life has been filled with enough of them (filipinas), and i'm for certain that all asian girls will only grow up to be as crazy as their mothers

First off, it's a bit disingenuous to judge all 'asian' peoples through your exposure of one group. It's like saying all Europeans are assholes because the Parisians you've met were snobs.

Second, girls do not always grow up to be as crazy as their mothers, Asian or not. A prime example is my fiancee, whose mother is the epitome of the stereotypical Japanese housewife - extremely patient and neat and well-adjusted and able to tolerate great heaps of bullshit. My fiancee, by contrast, is a crazy slob with an extremely quick, hot temper. Where she gets it from, I don't know. The point is, of course, that women are perfectly capable of being crazier than their mothers.

And finally, it's a tad insincere to solely call hakujin to task for yellow fever -- as ttrendel points out, white men are just as exoticised in many Asian countries (if not more) as Asian women are here. While I believe that being a rice king is its own special form of racism, these things go both ways.
posted by dogmatic at 11:36 PM on June 5, 2002

The women line up to be your bride.

Yeah, that's it. I just had to sit back and weed through the hundreds of applicants to pick my mate : like a Russian mail-order bride website, with beer.

Is it your intention to be insulting to Koreans in general and me in particular, there, ttrendel, or are you just phenomenally tactless?

There's no shortage of young (and not so young) women here in Korea who are lovely and pliable and willing and curious, and that is one of the things that attracts a lot of predatory men to this place. These men are pathetic.

You can't lift a freakin' rock around here (not to mention sitting down in a 'foreigner bar', which is one of the reasons I rarely go out much anymore) without some would-be casanova, drunk on his unexpected string of sexual conquests, who positively insists on telling you about them in great, gynecological detail, no matter how hard you try to escape.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:39 PM on June 5, 2002 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'll take phenomenally tactless for 500 stavros.

Seriously now, I find Asian women to be very attractive. It is probably mostly due to a certain mysteriousness (lets face it, Asian women do not congregate in Indiana). I assume that their attraction to North American males comes from an inverse of the same.

Try as I might Stavros, I simply cannot imagine you own personal case. I've never heard a woman (Korean or otherwise) moan for a barely literate, pacifist, socialist lover in my life.
posted by ttrendel at 11:56 PM on June 5, 2002

I am not socialist!

/grin
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:57 PM on June 5, 2002

Socialism aside, I really appreciated stavros's first point - i.e. how everyone assumes you have a fetish for asian women if you're married to one. Arrrg.

(Well, I do happen to think that, in very general terms, Japanese women are prettier, sexier, more sophisticated, and more feminine than women from my own country, but that's beside the point, and I doubt whether that's really a fetish anyway.)

May I also point out that, at least in Japan, upon hearing you're married to a J-woman, a Japanese person will almost always ask if you have any children -- the universal assumption being that the only reason you would've taken the drastic step of marriage is if you knocked her up. Double arrrg.
posted by Bixby23 at 12:40 AM on June 6, 2002

Korean men think western women drop trou at the slightest opportunity? That's funny. I know in Singapore that was the perception the western men there had of many of the LOCAL girls. So much so that these girls even have their own names, SPG's or sarong party girls. As stavros said, you can't avoid coming across these western casanovas, drunk on their sexual conquests. Well who is it you think they're sleeping with? The local women!

So I find it really funny that it's western women who are considered sluts. All I saw in Singapore were fat ugly white (loaded) men who wouldn't get a second glance by most western women with some gorgeous local girl on his arm. The next night there'd be a different one.

A quick anecdote, a swedish colleague of mine working there met a beautiful Singaporean lady. This man was obnoxious, ugly and lacking in any social graces. However this lady saw more in him and they dated. After a few weeks together, he told me he opened up his briefcase one day and in it was a credit card application. He was wondering where it came from when she informed him that it was for her. She wanted him to get a credit card for her, off his account and he was now to cover her rent and all living expenses. They'd been together TWO WEEKS!

Obviously there are many genuine and loving relationships. However there are also some that should be questioned.
posted by Jubey at 12:54 AM on June 6, 2002

my life has been filled with enough of them (filipinas), and i'm for certain that all asian girls will only grow up to be as crazy as their mothers

Interesting. I am Half-Korean, and it has always been a joke with my friends that all of our mother's would turn out "crazy" based on what we saw with other Korean women... when I was younger, we pegged the magic age at 30... I wonder where this generalization comes from.

That being said, I always dated what you might call, typical american beach bunnies (growing up in south Fla), and in fact don't think I ever dated an oriental for the above reason... even my wife is the only blonde, blue-eyed person in most Korean resturants that we go to.

Not to say that I _really_ beleived that Korean women wwent crazy, I have just never been attracted to them or any oriental women...

nH
posted by niteHawk at 12:59 AM on June 6, 2002

I happen to be married to a Japanese lady, no fetish at all. She stole my heart a few years ago, and has made my world a much finer place to be. It has far more to do with what she is on the inside than what she is on the outside.
posted by scottymac at 1:33 AM on June 6, 2002

There's no shortage of young (and not so young) women here in Korea who are lovely and pliable and willing and curious, and that is one of the things that attracts a lot of predatory men to this place. These men are pathetic.

Hello, double standard!

In case you hadn't noticed, Stav, we live in a time called the 21st century . . . Even in Korea, I'm sure the locals are aware of it.

This means that women are just as culpable for the consequences of their sexual escapades as men. Though the Korean women in question are no doubt less vocal about their sexual affairs than their Western male counterparts, they are by no means less responsible for the coital transactions that result. In short, for every pathetic predatory Western male a-giving, there is a pathetic predatory Korean female a-getting. Or vice versa.
posted by dogmatic at 2:26 AM on June 6, 2002

Second, girls do not always grow up to be as crazy as their mothers, Asian or not.

Oh, but they do... just give your fiancee time!
posted by twistedonion at 2:39 AM on June 6, 2002

I guess that's what I was trying to say, just shorter. What I'm curious about is that Stavros mentions all these predatory western men attacking these poor helpless Korean girls and says in the same breath that his partner is a Korean and he is a westerner. Um, what sets you apart from them?

You mention how lovely and pliable they are... pliable as in you can manipulate them? That's a good quality in a woman? Is that the appeal of your Korean wife? I'm not pointing accusations, I'm curious. I have been told this about Asian women and the westerners who love them. They seem to be far more compliant and let the men do whatever they want. Some men like a woman who doesn't put up much of a fight, where the man can dictate the relationship, and that's the impression I get a lot of these kind of relationships.
posted by Jubey at 2:47 AM on June 6, 2002

Many times, men visiting Poland from North America and the UK have raved about how Polish women are the finest in the world. When I try to elicit a less biased response, thinking maybe they're saying that because they assume I believe it to be true or I will take it as some sort of compliment because I live here with a Polish woman, it always turns out that they really, really, really believe it.

I suspect it's because Polish women tend more often to wear high heels, dresses, makeup, etc., and generally to be more girly-girl women than their counterparts back in the US, who might be wearing sneakers and sweats, and who might act and look more like one of the guys. Polish women have doors opened for them, are given flowers, and so on, and, in turn, Polish men must of course give flowers, open doors, light cigarettes, etc.

Visiting guys seem to be falling for these old-time social customs and gender roles as much as for the way the women here look and think (though there's certainly nothing wrong with the way they look and think). And I believe that many visiting women quite like the Polish men, too; I don't hear them going on about it endlessly, but I'm a man, and not a Polish one, so they wouldn't go on like that to me.

How does this compare to the guys who especially fancy Asian women? Do they love the women in themselves or do they love Asian gender roles and social customs?
posted by pracowity at 2:52 AM on June 6, 2002

a fellow i know who resided in hong kong for a short time told me about icered.com. he told me to click hong kong > play > nightlife and read some of the threads regarding so-called "saunas".

when i dropped in i was disgusted by the heaps of western men in the forums who frequent these places, referring to the women there by number as though they were menu items at mcdonald's. the discussions ranged from review of the sexual services to whether or not a girl was a "pork chop" (unattractive).

other threads were just as bad. the general attitude was that of finding ways to have sex with asian women.

i don't know STWC very well, but from the tone of his comments he certainly doesn't sound like one of the dirtbags i found in that forum.
posted by bwg at 3:13 AM on June 6, 2002

> we live in a time called the 21st century

In Korea, as far as matters of sex, love, and marriage, it is nowhere near the 21st century. A large proportion of marriages are still arranged ones. Women make, on average 50% of the money that they male counterparts make, if they're allowed to have a job. Past the age of 30 or so, there is very little opportunity, and this is baked-in to the culture.

As far as responsibility and culpability goes, sure, everyone is responsible for their own sexual encounters, the woman, regardless of her ethnicity, as much as the man. That said, I've never met a Korean woman who keeps 5 or 6 western men on a call, each unaware of the others, in order to get as much hot hot sex0ring action as possible. I've personally known dozens of waeguk-in (foreigners) in Korea who have done this.

The playing field is nothing like level, and I have little patience for those women who gullibly expect that they are being treated with honesty, when it is blazingly obvious that they are a temporary fuck toy for these guys.

This happens in the west, between those of similar ethnicities, I know. But it's taken to another level here.

> Um, what sets you apart from them?

What sets me apart from them is that I am not, nor have I ever been, a sexual predator. I've had coworkers who would pick up a girl in a bar before 10 pm, take her to a videobong (small room, sofa, video screen, privacy), engage in a bit of fornication, take her home, and pick up another girl later that evening at the same bar. Are the women complicit, to a degree? Do they lie and manipulate too? Yes, but they don't regale their gal-buddies with misanthropic tales later that evening. Some are equally predatory, some are not. Most are not.

> I have been told this about Asian women and the westerners who love them. They seem to be far more compliant and let the men do whatever they want. Some men like a woman who doesn't put up much of a fight, where the man can dictate the relationship, and that's the impression I get a lot of these kind of relationships.

That is exactly the sort of bullshit that I constantly struggle against. If you'd ever been in a relationship with a Korean woman (I can't speak for other nationalities), you'd realize in pretty goddamn short order what a ridiculous and inaccurate preconception that is. It comes from learning everything you know about the world and the people in from watching movies, maybe. I don't know. But it's these sorts of assumptions about my relationship that people, like yourself apparently, immediately call up, that I have to deal with constantly, or ignore as not worth the effort to try and clear up.

> Is that the appeal of your Korean wife?

No, it's not. And I deeply resent the implication. But I suppose I was asking for a question like that, bringing her up in this discussion.

> You mention how lovely and pliable they are...

Lovely is lovely, wherever. Korean women are often stunningly beautiful. This is just the way it is. As far as the 'pliable' thing, I was perhaps unclear : it was meant as a pointer towards the attitude taken by those expats here I characterized as predators. As far as 'poor, helpless' goes : I said nothing of the kind, and most Korean young women I've met, are far from it.

Koreans, are, however, infantilized throughout their young lives, to the extent that the university students I teach these days are almost without exception at an apparent maturity level achieved by 15-year olds in the west. Young Korean men are thrust unceremoniously into adulthood during their 26 months of mandatory military service, but women have no such ritual, and the culture is such that maturity and independance in women is devalued and discouraged anyway. These facts add very much to the mix, and to any kind of detailed understanding of what I'm trying to get across. Read the 'Korea-related' category at my blog if you're interested...this post is way too long already.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:23 AM on June 6, 2002

Thanks bwg, I appreciate the backup. I do wish this sort of thing were easier (or even possible?) to explain clearly.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:34 AM on June 6, 2002

I know nothing of nadirbans...but it sounds like tttrendel's experience there might be similar to say, any man with a fist full of twenties in a U.S. stripper bar (the uniform or military appearance in Korea would imply young, dumb and full of cash, presumably). The women met there might not be sufficient for racial stereotyping, but then what sampling would?

At any rate, thanks stavros for the "not socialist" reply, which gave me my first out-loud laugh from a thread in several days. With the recent trend toward MeFi flame wars it was great to see you refuse to be baited and instead to decide to reply with good-hearted humor. You are my role model...mature dialogue and hot interracial love!
/grinning too.
posted by Corky at 3:35 AM on June 6, 2002

no problem stavros.

it cannot nor need not be explained. and really, why should we have to? as i said in my tale, i married my wife because she is my best friend. that's all there is to it. i'm sure you feel the same way about your wife.

those that would assume that some sort of fetish was involved in the process would be shocked if we were to throw their assumptions back in their faces. maybe we should ask them why they chose to marry their wives—pointing out some feature and identifying it as a fetish—and seeing how they react.

i refuse to entertain questions regarding my wife if there is any hint whatsoever that the person who poses the question believes i married her because of her race.

as for the nature of predatory western men, you've hit the nail on the head. i've seen exactly that kind of behaviour in thailand as well. i don't believe there is any asian country that has not seen more than its share of these cretins.
posted by bwg at 4:10 AM on June 6, 2002 [1 favorite has favorites]

Stavros, if you read my post carefully, you'll realise that I actually say I'm not making accusations about your relationship, rather I was questioning a point that you made. You said that Korean women were pliable and suggested that this was part of their appeal. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to ask if that quality was one thing about your Korean wife that appealed to you. If you resent that implication, well, you were the one who implied it. Maybe I misconstrued it. Nowhere did I ever suggest you married her because she was Korean, and I don't base my comments on Korean women, having never lived there.

So far as me basing my perceptions of east/west relationships on movies, you couldn't be further from the truth. I've lived in South East Asia and my experience comes from western men there who tell me what it is they like about Asian women. Some of these men have said outright that these local women are far more docile and they're happy to take a back seat and let the man be the 'head of the house' they're more compliant etc. You may not see yourself like that, but don't tell me that other men don't. If there's a stereotype about these relationships, for some men, it's a correct one. I'm not asking you whether or not it's true, I've seen in some cases it is.
posted by Jubey at 4:40 AM on June 6, 2002

Stavros, if you read my post carefully, you'll realise that I actually say I'm not making accusations about your relationship, rather I was questioning a point that you made. You said that Korean women were pliable and suggested that this was part of their appeal. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to ask if that quality was one thing about your Korean wife that appealed to you. If you resent that implication, well, you were the one who implied it. Maybe I misconstrued it. Nowhere did I ever suggest you married her because she was Korean, and I don't base my comments on Korean women, having never lived there.

So far as me basing my perceptions of east/west relationships on movies, you couldn't be further from the truth. I've lived in South East Asia and my experience comes from western men there who tell me what it is they like about Asian women. Some of these men have said outright that these local women are far more docile and they're happy to take a back seat and let the man be the 'head of the house' they're more compliant etc. You may not see yourself like that, but don't tell me that other men don't. If there's a stereotype about these relationships, for some men, it's a correct one. I'm not asking you whether or not it's true, I've seen in some cases it is.
posted by Jubey at 4:41 AM on June 6, 2002

OK, Jubey. Felt like you were probing, there.

In future, I think bwg's policy might be a good one for me to adopt as well.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:03 AM on June 6, 2002

Aha! Here's the thread I was born to comment on!

It's *not* a fetish, it's a 'soft spot for'. ^_^
Seriously though, as someone who nearly (but didn't) got married to a Chinese girl and has been out with / attempted to go out with (that's an important qualifier) Thai, Japanese, Taiwanese, Burmese, Singaporean and Korean girls, I can hand on heart say that for me at least it's not a fetish, it's not to do with appearance and to be honest, there's very little that connects the various girls aside from their ethnicity, ie there is no one, generic 'south east asian chick'. I mean, I know you all knew that anyway, but I'm just sayin.
If I consciously go after that 'type' I think it's because I find that behind the initial shyness they have always been refreshingly forthright, honest and downright charming girls. Uhh... but none of this unemancipated submissiveness; all of them have been pretty darn cantankerous, but I love that. Anyway, that's probably not the culture - I think I bring out the crotchety housewife in *all* girls.
Having said all this, I'm drawing from foreign students here, not the real-deal locals. But I have to agree, the girl I nearly married became my girlfriend because she was great in so many ways. The fact she was Chinese didn't come into it. The corollary of that is, if she hadn't been so darn pretty I probably wouldn't have approached her in the first place, so go figure.
posted by RokkitNite at 6:06 AM on June 6, 2002

I'm amazed to realize so many people here are married.

I don't know why, but I am.

Also, it's interesting to see a high percentage of 'interracial' marriages.. although that might just be a function of the international nature (yet english-based language) of metafilter.

(I still get the feeling Jubey was asking if stavos married his wife because she was pliable, not because she was Korean)

And as for the Asian women I have dated, I would have to say that I did find them physically attractive, but not because they were Asian, but because they were hot, like an Italian or an Irish girl, or an Italian-Irish girl can be hot.

I ended up marrying a German-Irish girl, anyway.

But for the Asian girlfriends, I did find them attentive, but not 'doting', and pretty well sure of themselves, and not pliable as the 'perception' is (of course you're going to find that in Bangkok or any other urban center - opportunity knocks to take advantage of stupid Americans). Actually, I think because of the cultural differences in upbringing, they tend to be more focused, self-aware, and straightforward in a relationship than your typical American girl.
posted by rich at 6:32 AM on June 6, 2002

I, like ScottyMac, am married to a beautiful Japanese woman I met while living in Japan a few years. I have been repeatedly criticized for having "yellow fever" not only because of my wife, but because my degree is in Asian history.

I cant explain my interest in Asia..but having an interest in Asia does not preclude me from having an interest in Brazil, or Spain, or Africa. Can't I find ALOT of other cultures attractive? The idea that one should be criticized for finding particular woman from a particular country attractive is silly to me. Who's to say who we will find attractive? I find most women from ALL cultures attractive...its the woman inside that my interest really depends on.

Men who go to Asia find themselves idolized by many. This is not because they are "appreciated" but because of the incorrect notion that Asian women have of American men. This is due to the media we send over. The students in my small village in northern Japan had never seen a foreigner before and made no distinction between me and most movie characters onscreen. Men who enjoy this popularity are subject to it's trap...how does the man get treated when he doesn't live up to those expectations?

As for me, I forget my wife is Japanese most of the time...as I forget my best friend is Cuban or my other friend is Filipino. What disgusts me are people who DON'T care about other cultures and DON'T find foreign women attractive. That, to me, is the worst form of racism. Xenophobia.
posted by Dantien at 6:56 AM on June 6, 2002

"It's like saying all Europeans are assholes because the Parisians you've met were snobs."

i... fail to see the misfired logic in that statement...
posted by jcterminal at 7:05 AM on June 6, 2002

Actually, I think because of the cultural differences in upbringing, they tend to be more focused, self-aware, and straightforward in a relationship than your typical American girl.

My wife is Thai, I have lived in the Far East and I also fully agree with the above comment, as long as we highlight and bold typical. I hate generalizations.
posted by magullo at 7:16 AM on June 6, 2002

hmm. i'm hetero (although of the western boots & pants variety, not the polish heels and flowers), but i've got a crush on her. does that mean i have a fetish? i must say she seems far from pliable.
posted by witchstone at 7:31 AM on June 6, 2002

No. I have a crush on her as well and I'm a western heterosexual woman.
posted by Summer at 7:42 AM on June 6, 2002

I'd have to agree with Dantien, most of the time I totally forget that my wife is Korean. it's not an issue at all. The only time It ever even enters my consciousness is when we visit her parents.

(by the way, I'm also somewhat surprised at the number of 'inter-cultural' marriages here on metafilter. it's quite interesting).

to Jubey: stavros said that "there are no shortage of lovely and pliable girls in korea" (just as there are no shortage of lovely and pliable girls in america). This does not mean that all girls in korea (or all girls in america) are lovely and/or pliable. just sayin'.
posted by jnthnjng at 7:52 AM on June 6, 2002

This is the most interesting, informative and charming thread I've read in months - so many love stories!

The upshot, I think, is that foreigners, whatever their continent, culture or colour, are invariably much attracted to each other. My mother's English and my father was Portuguese. My mother's first husband was Polish and their daughter, my sister, is married to a German. I myself have had too many girlfriends of too many different nationalities to fall for the trap of saying French girls are X and Brazilians are Y. I even married an Italian girl and learnt nothing about Italian girls in general - they don't exist. Thank God!

Every time someone marries a foreigner and has children the world becomes a better place. I honestly believe that. It's very much drummed into us in Portugal - cynics say we had to marry all over the world because there weren't enough Portuguese women to go round - but the result is always delightful.

My secret hope is that one day the great majority of us will be like Tiger Woods, light-brown coffee-coloured with the best features of every race. Mix it up and mix it good - it's only natural!

*disconnect Bennetton broadcast for today*
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:55 AM on June 6, 2002

Regarding salmonberry's comment...are you f*?# kidding?! The Learning Annex is the last place I'd take a course for "intellectual enlightenment." I was merely pointing out what I thought was an offensive course and another example of a company which thought they could get away with something that not only offends but insults Asians.
posted by zinegurl at 7:58 AM on June 6, 2002

One of the rules for living a happy life in New York is never to pick up a Learning Annex brochure. No matter how bored you are. No matter how long you're waiting for the bus. It's just one of those things that makes you lose faith in humanity.
posted by Faze at 8:55 AM on June 6, 2002

Might as well jump in, as I'm American married to Japanese.
This is down so far that no one will see it, but that's OK.

All this talk of Japanese wife, Korean wife, and Asian fetish is funny and also disheartening. She's my wife, yo! That's what that is, and she's the one I committed to spend the rest of my life with because she loves me even though she knows me the best. If she was from Bakersfield or Burkina Faso it would be the same thing. She's not a foreigner to me, she's the only person who understands me. I hope you feel the same about yours, or I hope that's what you are looking for, not an "Asian" wife or a "blonde" wife or a "rich" wife.

My friend Atsushi said to me on the occasion of my wedding, "You don't love her because she's beautiful. She's beautiful because you love her." Exactly.

That said, if you are a nice person, I GUARANTEE that whatever your looks, you can meet and date nice women almost anywhere. Forget pick-up lines, insincere flattery and your supercharged Plymouth Barracuda: Pay attention when she talks, compliment her sincerely on her abilities and good works from time to time, and smile at her. If you can put on a clean shirt every day and do these things, one of the women you smile at is going to smile back. If she keeps smiling when you talk with her, invite her out.
posted by planetkyoto at 9:04 AM on June 6, 2002

She's my wife, yo! That's what that is, and she's the one I committed to spend the rest of my life with because she loves me even though she knows me the best. If she was from Bakersfield or Burkina Faso it would be the same thing.
THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER.
posted by darukaru at 9:13 AM on June 6, 2002

You don't love her because she's beautiful. She's beautiful because you love her

Best. Quote. Ever.
posted by PWA_BadBoy at 9:29 AM on June 6, 2002

Just wanted to chime in (with the others) and say that this is a very cool thread and one of the reasons I love MeFi.
posted by gen at 9:43 AM on June 6, 2002

You don't love her because she's beautiful. She's beautiful because you love her

That made me cry.

BTW, I'm the product of an American father (white) and Japanese mother and I've never really been concerned about the race of the men I've dated. It was always more important to find someone who held the same values and wanted the same things out of life. It's not easy.
posted by whtsherbkt at 9:45 AM on June 6, 2002

So I guess marrying my wife because she's hot is the wrong answer?

Bummer.
posted by rich at 10:05 AM on June 6, 2002

Wow.

The wm-af phenomenon is in full effect at MeFi. I never would have guessed. Seriously.

As for inter-cultural relationships . . . From my experience, getting over cultural differences has actually helped me in my relationship, I think. When my Japanese fiancee and I first got together, we were so not on the same page it was comical. Getting over those cultural differences really helped us to get to know each other better. I think this keys in a little to what Miguel was saying earlier. The more cultures mix and match, the more understanding and the more gooder the world is.
posted by dogmatic at 10:05 AM on June 6, 2002

Quick question: Do you MEN consider calling yourselves BOYS? Then quit calling grown women GIRLS. Anyone you screw, date, or marry better damn well NOT be a girl-because that's illegal. They are women, and please start calling them as such.
posted by aacheson at 10:13 AM on June 6, 2002

If I could find a guy who was half Hispanic and half black, my kids would have most of the races covered. Of course, I haven't met many guys like that and I seem to mostly date white guys.
posted by whtsherbkt at 10:16 AM on June 6, 2002

actually, i know a bunch of girls who call "men" boys. those are terms of familiarity to me, but everyone's entitled to their opinion.
posted by moz at 10:18 AM on June 6, 2002

I see tons of white girls with Asian guys on the streets of New York -- it's a big thing. I don't know if these are Asian-Americans or guys who are actually from or recent immigrants of Asian countries.

That's an important distinction: Asian Americans and born-and-raised-in-Asians are really two different things. I'm married to an Asian-American, as are a number of my male friends, and I don't think any of us would have married someone who was actually an Asian-in-Asia, simply because that kind of cultural / linguistic difference would not have been of interest.

Even though it's not for me, I can appreciate the thing that many American men find in women abroad generally -- both those who marry Asian women while working in Asia, and, with no less frequency, those who bring home a wife from France, Italy, Russia, Czech Republic, etc. It's not racial at all -- but, rather, something exciting in the cultural differences, maybe something about familiarity breeding contempt, while, on the other hand, the work that's required to cross large cultural gaps creates a strong bond.
posted by MattD at 10:35 AM on June 6, 2002

*looks at Quixoticlife*

adampsyche: "You mean we're just a couple of white people?"

quixoticlife: "Yeah...how boring..."

adampsyche: "Wanna go to The Gap?"
posted by adampsyche at 10:37 AM on June 6, 2002

I am a boy-toy, if that matters.

My wife's older than I am. But I still call her a chick.

A note on intercultural; while you may be able to say 'Irish' and 'Italian' would be intercultural, they really do share much in the way of European culture and have probably just as many differences as, say a Southerner and a Yankee in the US. (While a Canadian and a Southerner would have less in common than a Canadian and a northerner, but I digress).

However, I think there are wider disparities in attitude and understanding when you bring together two different regions, like european and Asia, or even South Asia (like India) and Asia, or the Middle East.

Also, from my quick read of the metafilter people who have claimed to be married to an asian partner, it seems all of them are ex-pats, which is interesting in its own.. since many of the (first generation) asian friends I have in the States do make a point of not dating/marrying out of their country of origin. (note that Mattd, above noted he was married to an asian-american, which I think is an important distinction for cultural assimilation, etc)
posted by rich at 10:38 AM on June 6, 2002

Quick question: Do you MEN consider calling yourselves BOYS? Then quit calling grown women GIRLS. Anyone you screw, date, or marry better damn well NOT be a girl-because that's illegal. They are women, and please start calling them as such.

Actually, aacheson, I think that men refer to women as "girls" because men refer to men as "guys". You know, like guys and gals, only since "gals" is so out of style, it simply became girls. I hardly think that it has anything to do with respect, but I can only speak on my own behalf. (Actually, I refer to boobs/tits/knockers as breasts, and my "women" friends are always intrigued by that. Most women I know call them boobs, but I feel goofy saying that)
posted by BlueTrain at 10:52 AM on June 6, 2002

Also, from my quick read of the metafilter people who have claimed to be married to an asian partner, it seems all of them are ex-pats, which is interesting in its own..

Well, I met my fiancee in the US . . .

And if you read bwg's story of meeting his wife, they were (I believe) in Canada when they met.

So this is not necessarily so.
posted by dogmatic at 11:12 AM on June 6, 2002

Question: have you ever noticed the difference between an East Asian and European hairlines? It's really different. European hair kind of goes from bald to long suddenly; Asian hair starts off short and fuzzy.

(Actually this post is on topic cos I noticed this in bed the other night while miscegenating)
posted by dydecker at 11:48 AM on June 6, 2002 [1 favorite has favorites]

MattD: I see tons of white girls with Asian guys on the streets of New York -- it's a big thing.

I'm an Asian-American guy with a Caucasian girlfriend in New York City, and from our perspective, couples like us are still pretty rare. We notice these things and I think it follows the 80:20 rule (80% of the Asian/Caucasian couples are Asian female/Caucasian male.)
posted by gen at 12:25 PM on June 6, 2002

For what it's worth, I'm also a product of an interracial marriage (scottish father/filipino-chinese mother). Race was never an issue in our household, and interracial dating was neither encouraged nor discouraged, it was simply a non issue. As such I've spent the majority of my adult life dating women of a variety of ethnic backgrounds (not that I made a point to do that, my circle of friends just happened to be very diverse).

One thing that does upset me is an overwhelming tendency amongst some my male asian friends to try to date only caucasian women. The strange thing about it is that most of these male asian friends are first generation immigrants, whereas my male friends that are second generation asian-american or intermixed don't seem care one way or another.

I find this very odd. While I'd agree that people are often initially attracted to the unfamiliar, I find it weird that these friends don't date women of any other ethnic background, only those of caucasian origin.

I have a theory that probably won't be popular amongst Asian-American men with this tendency (and by that I mean the type that by and large only date white women). Much in the same way that western media has penetrated much of southeast asia with idolized images of western culture and physical/sexual attractiveness, Asian men in North America have been bombarded with images of what beauty and success means in North America. Success for Asian men in North America is marketed as appearing as assimilated into North American culture as much as possible. None of my asian friends want to be mistaken for the token variety store/dry cleaner owner with a thick accent that we see on every other sitcom. Hell, if I even attempt to speak in my broken tagalog to some of them in public they're embarrassed. However my asian friends of mixed or second+ generation are much less likely to exhibit this behavior. In fact they don't seem to care about the race of their girlfriends at all or what people think of them at all.

But who the hell am I to make such a proclamation? I'm engaged to the most amazing women... who happens to be Irish. I don't know if any other asian/half asian guys on mefi have noticed this tendency, or felt subconsciously that their dating patterns may be influenced by a desire to fit in socially. It's not exactly a pleasant thing to swallow, but I think it's more common than casually admitted.
posted by Mooskey at 1:09 PM on June 6, 2002

Ah, a chance to plug one of my favorite book series: Culture Shock. It's a series of books, nominally to tell foreigners what it's like in some particular country. One of my favorite quotes from the Culture Shock: China volume is from the section on, more or less, the stereotypes that the Chinese have of various foreign nationalities. For the Americans, it is:

"Americans: All crazy, but also generous, friendly people led by treacherous warmongering politicians. If they are female, probably have sexual designs on innocent Chinese boys. If male, likewise, except these are on Chinese girls as well as boys."

Reading the Culture Shock: USA volume was also interesting; my favorite bit there is the warning (intended for those coming from foreign countries) that the police in the USA are, by and large, honest, and an attempt to bribe them is likely to end badly.

They're not great literature or a serious analysis of the culture in question, but they have their moments, and are generally a good read.

FWIW, my wife, who is Chinese, has said (and other Chinese friends have agreed) that one reason that Chinese women may prefer foreigners for husbands is that the business culture in China often has the men going out in the evenings together drinking, no wives, and often bringing mistresses. American husbands are seen as more likely to stay home and not go out carousing.

We haven't had much trouble (as an interracial couple) in the US, but we're in the Seattle area, and Asians are fairly common, so it's not really anything out of the ordinary. We did get a wide variety of reactions in China, running the full range from other women wanting to have their picture taken with me (without my wife present), to being spit at by passersby as we walked on the sidewalk.

posted by doorsnake at 1:33 PM on June 6, 2002

it shouldn't matter what anyone thinks about who you love, no matter what their race, religion, or class. as if there's much choice in the matter. regardless of how some of these interracial relationships begin, if there isn't a real meaningful connection between 2 individuals to provide a good foundation then i don't think it lasts for too long. and if it does, well then so be it. it's just as common and no less "wrong" for an asian woman to stay with an asian man just because her family expects it as it is for a white guy to stay with an asian woman just because he has a fetish. other people often choose their partners for reasons we wouldn't.
posted by henriettachicken at 4:42 PM on June 6, 2002

That said, if you are a nice person, I GUARANTEE that whatever your looks, you can meet and date nice women almost anywhere. Forget pick-up lines, insincere flattery and your supercharged Plymouth Barracuda: Pay attention when she talks, compliment her sincerely on her abilities and good works from time to time, and smile at her. If you can put on a clean shirt every day and do these things, one of the women you smile at is going to smile back. If she keeps smiling when you talk with her, invite her out.

Finding one who will stand still long enough seems to be the problem; I'd like to think I already knew the rules...
posted by baylink at 5:39 PM on June 6, 2002

I think this defensiveness about fetichism on the part of white guys with asian partners is really unnecessary. I happen to have a thing for red hair, and should I get married, I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find myself married to a redhead. That doesn't mean that it's the only quality that I look for in a partner, though, nor does it mean that I want to date every redhead I meet, nor does it mean that I would rather be with a dumb redhead than a brunette with a brain. A fetish as broad as being attracted to almond-shaped eyes and straight dark hair still leaves a lot of room to find someone compatible with you in a lot of other ways. So some people assume that you married your wife at least partly because of her looks...there are worse things to have someone imply about a man's relationship to his wife. I don't know where all this defensiveness comes from, but I think there's more to it than is being suggested in many comments above. Instead of "She's beautiful because I love her," how about "She's beautiful, AND I love her." Why is that so bad?
posted by bingo at 5:41 PM on June 6, 2002

i object to the term fetish because as i mentioned in my tale, it would reduce my wife to an object.

the term fetish is thrown around without people really understanding its true definition.

and anyone who suggests to me that my wife is nothing more than an object is likely to get a punch in the face from me.
posted by bwg at 6:32 PM on June 6, 2002

bwg, you can have a fetish for a part of your wife's physicality and still respect her as a person. She has a body that is at least to some extent separated from her soul; I think it's unreasonable to be insulted by the suggestion that a certain part of that body turns you on in itself.
posted by bingo at 7:32 PM on June 6, 2002

You don't love her because she's beautiful. She's beautiful because you love her

So very Johnny Lingo


I encountered Johnny Lingo as a filmstrip ("beep" turn turn turn) in high school, in geometry class no less. Now available on VHS
posted by NortonDC at 8:46 PM on June 6, 2002

"I don't know where all this defensiveness comes from," .

It comes from making comments directly at someone or their loved one.

"but I think there's more to it than is being suggested in many comments above."

I don't.
posted by keithl at 9:25 PM on June 6, 2002

sorry bingo, i hate to sound disagreeable but perhaps this will help clarify things:

a fetish is defined as any non-sexual object that abnormally excites erotic feelings.

stay with that definition for a moment; key words being non-sexual object and abnormally...

human beings are sexual beings by nature, therefore it is perfectly reasonable (and normal) to be physically attracted to whatever body part or parts turn us on. hell, we all do that, men and women both.

but those parts aren't non-sexual objects, they belong to a person and are extensions of her soul, mind, and personality. therefore they do not meet the definition of a fetish. try telling any woman the only reason you're interested in her is because a specific part of her anatomy lights you up and she may just deck you. that's what objectifying does. and frankly, i may find a woman devastatingly attractive, but if she's evil, small-minded or psychotic, i'm not interested. but that's me.

now if a person is naturally attracted to people of another race, i see no fault in that. everyone has something different that makes them tick. however, it is the eroticising of race that really is at issue here. eroticising any race reduces human beings to sexual objects. natural attraction does not. most women i know are offended by being regarded as a sex object. men don't seem to mind as much, because secretly most men would love to be a sex object—at least for a little while... [grin].

but it's not unreasonable that i become offended when the suggestion is made that i have a fetish for my wife or for asian women in general. it's not unreasonable that i would be offended if someone suggests i eroticise asian women. it's not unreasonable because those claims are grossly untrue.

the fact is, i love my wife for all she is, and the truth of the matter, at least in our case, is that her race had nothing to do with it.
posted by bwg at 6:24 AM on June 7, 2002

I used to find that the phrase 'Mao taksi' ('Do you want a taxi?') worked fine every time I tried it in the Tamboura (Jakarta).

It set you back about 20,000 rupiah a night (£7) in 1993/4, and occasionally cost you a venereal disease. But only if you were wearing Jap condoms.
posted by leafy at 6:59 AM on June 7, 2002

[no, really]

Unless you go for blackmarket goods from the US Army bases, Japanese condoms are the only ones you can buy here in Korea, and they're too small.

[/no, really]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:30 AM on June 7, 2002

johnny lingo! i'm going off on a bit of a tangent here from asian fetishes, etc. but my hawaiian friend told me that they actually used two different actresses for mahanna (one for the "ugly" mahanna and one for the "beautiful" mahanna, which just completely undercuts the whole point of the movie) and apparently the students at his high school were convinced that the ugly mahanna was one of the gym teachers. i don't know whether or not to believe this, but it's so crazy it just might be true.

also, my mom dated johnny lingo in college. i guess she was a 10 cow woman, though and he couldn't afford her. ha, ha, no but she did date the actor but i didn't know until a few years ago and i was shocked that she'd held out on me for so long. johnny lingo could've been my father!
posted by witchstone at 8:15 AM on June 7, 2002

God damn, you half-Japanese girls do it to me every time.

That song's been running through my head almost constantly in the last two weeks that I've been touring China. I've fallen in love 189,394 times -- er, make that 189,395 times -- the Internet cafe attendant cleaning up right behind me is a real cutie.

As soon as I get home next week, I will begin some serious job-hunting. I love this place...
posted by syzygy at 11:09 AM on June 7, 2002

but it's not unreasonable that i become offended when the suggestion is made that i have a fetish for my wife or for asian women in general. it's not unreasonable that i would be offended if someone suggests i eroticise asian women. it's not unreasonable because those claims are grossly untrue.

So asking a question that has a negative answer is grounds for getting offended?
posted by bingo at 8:14 AM on June 8, 2002

that's a classic question of misdirection.

that's also not the point. staying with the point, it's the implication that offends.

whatever happened to the simple query of interest: "say, how did you two meet?"
posted by bwg at 9:54 AM on June 8, 2002

It may not be your point, but it is my point.

Apparently, the "implication" that offends you is that you view your wife as nothing more than an object. However, I believe that in the kind of situations we're talking about, that isn't really the implication, it's actually just your inference. People are not obligated to query about your relationship in the exact wording that settles softly on your gentle ears. If someone sees that you are married to an asian woman, and then asks you if you have a thing for asian women, and you interpret that to mean that your wife has no soul and that you have no other interest in her whatsoever, then you are seriously deluded, and the problem is completely in your own mind.
posted by bingo at 2:16 PM on June 8, 2002

well i am through trying to be pleasant with you bingo, because it's obvious to me that you just don't get it.

instead of admitting that the underlying implication in such questions is rude and unecessary, you try to invert, misdirect, change the subject or use elliptical arguments. when they fail you resort to baiting.

if we met on the street and i noticed your wife or girlfriend had large breasts, and i said to you—"so, do you have a thing for women with big boobs?"—what do you think would happen?

it is exactly the same type of rudeness. it has nothing to do with my "gentle ears". and if you call me deluded because i defend myself and my wife's honour, then i guess i am deluded.
posted by bwg at 6:37 PM on June 8, 2002

instead of admitting that the underlying implication in such questions is rude and unecessary, you try to invert, misdirect, change the subject or use elliptical arguments. when they fail you resort to baiting.

I'm afraid that is really a complete misperception on your part. I'm not "admitting that the underlying implication in such questions is rude and unnecessary" because I disagree with you about what that implication is to begin with.

if we met on the street and i noticed your wife or girlfriend had large breasts, and i said to you—"so, do you have a thing for women with big boobs?"—what do you think would happen?

I think it's a bit strange to ask such personal questions of someone you just met on the street, in general. Can we suppose that I'm dating a woman with large breasts, you and I have gotten to know each other a little, and then you ask me?

Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, I wouldn't be offended in the least. It's not like you already know the answer, and if the answer is "yes" it doesn't mean that I don't respect my girlfriend.

and if you call me deluded because i defend myself and my wife's honour, then i guess i am deluded.

I'm calling you deluded because I don't think that you are correct in perceiving such questions as an attack on you or your wife's honor. Honestly. That's my whole point. I'm not trying to bait you, and I don't see what's elliptical about the straightforward argument I'm making. You have every right to disagree with me, but your assumption that I am being difficult on purpose is completely incorrect.
posted by bingo at 6:47 PM on June 8, 2002

fair enough. i guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

i guess i was just brought up differently. even if i knew you for a while i still would never ask (hypothetically speaking of course) if you're with your girlfriend because you have an attraction to some part of her anatomy. frankly that would really be none of my business, unless you volunteered it.

the truth of the matter in my case is that my wife being chinese had nothing to do with the development of our relationship, except of course for the natural curiosity of learning about another culture, but i think that's pretty normal.

personally i find women from all different races interesting, but that's me.
posted by bwg at 11:22 PM on June 8, 2002

I appreciate your civility, but please forgive me for not quite letting this drop, because I still don't think you're really addressing what I said.

When someone asks you a question about the nature of your attraction to your girlfriend or wife, the answer may indeed be none of their business, but so, for example, is how much money you made last year. It's still a far cry from your initial suggestion that the person asking the question is somehow implying that your wife is just an object and that you don't respect her. When you say

but it's not unreasonable that i become offended when the suggestion is made that i have a fetish for my wife or for asian women in general

you're not just talking about someone asking about something that's not their business. You're suggesting another implication, and that was the one I was disputing.
posted by bingo at 2:03 AM on June 9, 2002

we are going around in circles.

but in the spirit of good natured debate, please ask the question you want to ask and i will try to answer. but please realize that i will likely investigate the nature of your query.
posted by bwg at 9:38 AM on June 9, 2002

Please answer this question that I asked above, given here in context:

bwg: but it's not unreasonable that i become offended when the suggestion is made that i have a fetish for my wife or for asian women in general. it's not unreasonable that i would be offended if someone suggests i eroticise asian women. it's not unreasonable because those claims are grossly untrue.

bingo: So asking a question that has a negative answer is grounds for getting offended?

I wasn't being sarcastic or rhetorical; I wanted to know what exactly you feel is grounds for taking offense, and you said (it seems to me) that essentially, the reason it's reasonable for you to be offended by a question is that the question concerned might have a negative answer. To me, that really doesn't make much sense. I tried to rephrase your response in order to make sure I understood it, and you told me that I was asking "a classic question of misdirection" and "missing the point."

Since my whole problem with this thread to begin with was that I think you and others have a definition of "offensive" that is a bit too broad, I think that my query about why exactly it's reasonable to be offended in a certain situation, and then my follow-up query attempting to understand the nature of your reasoning, were perfectly legitimate. I would appreciate it if you would address those questions and, even if you investigate the nature of the query, please also answer them at face value anyway.
posted by bingo at 1:05 PM on June 9, 2002

all right, if you weren't being sarcastic, then i apologise. it's hard to tell when someone is being sincere in here sometimes. it's difficult to discuss in type what would be far easier to convey in person.

ok, i'll try to make this is plain as i can. it's not whether or not the question has a negative answer that is grounds for offense, it's the intent behind the question.

i spoke with stavros about this privately and he was better able to summarise what we mean by intent. if we're speaking to someone face-to-face, it's a lot easier to tell whether they're just:

1. politely curious but tactless

2. being a redneck

3. insinuating that we are predatory westerners (whom we definitely do not like being lumped together with).

in our experience, most of the time it's 2 or 3. and believe me when i say it gets really tiring. oh, and it gets better: the assumption is that this question is usually posed by another caucasian. but i sometimes get the same attitude from chinese here as well, usually with other factors added in.

i don't know if this helps answer the question for you or not, but i hope it seems more clear. by the way, are you writing a paper on this? [grin]
posted by bwg at 8:39 PM on June 9, 2002

I guess you're in an environment where the assumption that you're with her purely for a fetish is so prevalent, that it's reasonable for you to assume that people who ask you if you have a thing for asian girls are essentially accusing you of not really caring about your wife. If you say this is so, I can't really argue with you, because I've never been to Hong Kong and know very little about it.

The cultures (for lack of a better word) that I'm probably most closely associated with in my thinking on this subject are those of Los Angeles and Seattle, where (between them) I've spent the last eight years. There's a lot of diversity, and so much consciousness of interracial mixings of various types and at various strata that nobody knows why anybody is with anyone.

I guess what you're talking about might be analogous to an older man here in L.A. being asked if he's with his much younger partner just for the sex, and if she's with him just for the money. If he's with her because he loves her, then I can see that the question would get irritating, although the truth is that statistically, the assumption behind the question is usually correct, and I wonder if that isn't the case in your situation as well. Still, if you're in a culture where it's widely understood that one man asking another whether he's with an asian woman because he has an asian fetish, is less about the answer to the question, and more about picking a fight, then by all means, give back what the questioner deserves. All I can say is that I don't live in such a culture myself, and I don't think most white guys living in American cities do either.
posted by bingo at 6:13 PM on June 10, 2002