CalExit 3.0
August 31, 2018 8:20 PM Subscribe
CALEXIT GOES NATIONWIDE:
In 1869, the Supreme Court ruled that a state may secede "through consent of the states". Therefore, modeling the successful strategy of the Convention of States campaign, Yes California is announcing its new mission to pass a "Consent to Secede" resolution in a majority of the Nation's state legislatures.
CalExit has re-launched, with what claims to be the third and final edition (pdf) of the "Blue Book" with a shiny new introduction aimed at a wider audience (they figured out that they need more than California's support for this to work), and a pitch focused on red states that boils down to, "hey Republicans! Now's your chance to throw us out!" The legal argument hinges on Texas v. White, an 1869 case about bonds sold during the Civil War, and who was responsible for them: the newly-elected government, or the confederate no-longer-existing government. The ruling: Texas was always a state, even when it was in rebellion; the bonds get treated as usual. In explaining how that worked, the Court said:
There are other plans, like granting citizenship to all current residents except US military personnel. The Blue Book is a fascinating study in AU worldbuilding which pretends the US government would have no interest in keeping unrestricted access to over 70 active airports (the top 10 of which serve over 100 million passengers per year), 3 megaports and 8 smaller ports, and major hubs of the entertainment and technology industries.
There's a Twitter hashtag. The discussion's even less coherent than most political topics.
CalExit has re-launched, with what claims to be the third and final edition (pdf) of the "Blue Book" with a shiny new introduction aimed at a wider audience (they figured out that they need more than California's support for this to work), and a pitch focused on red states that boils down to, "hey Republicans! Now's your chance to throw us out!" The legal argument hinges on Texas v. White, an 1869 case about bonds sold during the Civil War, and who was responsible for them: the newly-elected government, or the confederate no-longer-existing government. The ruling: Texas was always a state, even when it was in rebellion; the bonds get treated as usual. In explaining how that worked, the Court said:
“When Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration or revocation, except through revolution or through consent of the States.”The CalExit crowd is taking that last line to mean "states can vote to kick out other states," and they have a sample resolution for state governments, and a letter to conservatives (Word doc) to send off to their legislatures:
“Californians are different from the rest of us. Their values are just not the same as mine, and not the same as ours here in the Great State of [INSERT STATE NAME]. States like California threaten the identity of America. States like California make it necessary to make America great again.”CalExit is also planning an autonomous Native American nation, comprised of most of the eastern half of the state--almost all the current federal lands. Of course, they're not planing to cede the original coastal lands of several dozen tribal groups, and no mention is made of the fact that the plan puts that nation as a buffer zone between the densely-populated coast region and the hypothetical somewhat-less-United States.
There are other plans, like granting citizenship to all current residents except US military personnel. The Blue Book is a fascinating study in AU worldbuilding which pretends the US government would have no interest in keeping unrestricted access to over 70 active airports (the top 10 of which serve over 100 million passengers per year), 3 megaports and 8 smaller ports, and major hubs of the entertainment and technology industries.
There's a Twitter hashtag. The discussion's even less coherent than most political topics.
And several extremely large military complexes and associated industry.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:31 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:31 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait a minute- the split CA up people were funded by Russia- are these guys funded by Russia too?
I suppose they have a dream of repeating the 1989 revolutions upon their enemies.
posted by pwnguin at 8:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
I suppose they have a dream of repeating the 1989 revolutions upon their enemies.
posted by pwnguin at 8:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
Are these guys funded by Russia too?
He’s the founder of a Californian independence movement. Just don’t ask him why he lives in Russia.
posted by toxic at 8:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [51 favorites]
He’s the founder of a Californian independence movement. Just don’t ask him why he lives in Russia.
posted by toxic at 8:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [51 favorites]
I can see this leading to a quick bailing of the Northeast and PNW and eventually the dismantling of the U.S. so I'm in favour.
posted by Space Coyote at 8:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Space Coyote at 8:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
What fresh nonsense is this
posted by schadenfrau at 8:39 PM on August 31, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:39 PM on August 31, 2018 [7 favorites]
Why are you paying any attention to this nonsense and now wasting our time with it?
posted by ElKevbo at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2018 [39 favorites]
posted by ElKevbo at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2018 [39 favorites]
It seems to be increasingly harder nowadays to relegate cranks to the backwaters of discourse where they belong.
posted by tclark at 8:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by tclark at 8:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
It's an entertaining distraction from the ongoing state of disaster (as opposed to a Trumping distraction).
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:47 PM on August 31, 2018
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:47 PM on August 31, 2018
This is still an extremely stupid, ill thought out, antisocial, "I got mine fuck you" movement.
(I do wonder what thought, if any, they've given to water rights.)
posted by kenko at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
(I do wonder what thought, if any, they've given to water rights.)
posted by kenko at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
Great to see Give Me Liberty coming one step closer to reality with each passing day!
posted by Enemy of Joy at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2018
posted by Enemy of Joy at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2018
California has the fifth largest economy in the world. These idiots are delusional if they think it would ever be allowed to leave the U.S.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 9:10 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 9:10 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
hey i've got a great idea i mean sure it comes with a miiiinor risk of war between nation-states in north america but that doesn't make it a bad idea
what, you're saying that anything that causes any risk of war between nation-states in north america is automatically a terrible idea, like, maximally bad, the worst possible idea?
okay i guess you have a point.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:19 PM on August 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
what, you're saying that anything that causes any risk of war between nation-states in north america is automatically a terrible idea, like, maximally bad, the worst possible idea?
okay i guess you have a point.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:19 PM on August 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
I have an opinion about this! Here it is: No.
posted by Going To Maine at 9:20 PM on August 31, 2018 [22 favorites]
posted by Going To Maine at 9:20 PM on August 31, 2018 [22 favorites]
That's mostly my thought. It's sometimes fun to think about, "hey, what if California were its own nation?" But the whole CalExit plan is based on the premise that the US is just going to say, "sure, take your airports and your farms and Silicon Valley and Hollywood, and set up whatever export duties you want to let us access those."
Ahahahah... no.
It looks like they've figured that out, and are planning to pitch to Tea Party fanatics the idea that red states could vote to kick California out. This pitch will likely be effective until someone mentions that iPhones would cost more in the US than in the new nation of California.
(It's so FUN to think about, though. CA getting to tell Google and Twitter that they have to enforce their TOS against Nazis or have their execs face criminal charges for hate crimes. Telling Twitter to shut off whatsisface's account as a threat to national security. Declaring that all the farm workers in California can be CA citizens if they want; opening the border between California and Mexico. Green taxes to push for less individual car use, more groups, more public transit. Actual laws that deal with cybercrimes. And so on. But I do know damn well it's not happening.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:25 PM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
Ahahahah... no.
It looks like they've figured that out, and are planning to pitch to Tea Party fanatics the idea that red states could vote to kick California out. This pitch will likely be effective until someone mentions that iPhones would cost more in the US than in the new nation of California.
(It's so FUN to think about, though. CA getting to tell Google and Twitter that they have to enforce their TOS against Nazis or have their execs face criminal charges for hate crimes. Telling Twitter to shut off whatsisface's account as a threat to national security. Declaring that all the farm workers in California can be CA citizens if they want; opening the border between California and Mexico. Green taxes to push for less individual car use, more groups, more public transit. Actual laws that deal with cybercrimes. And so on. But I do know damn well it's not happening.)
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:25 PM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
jesus christ though I mean there's at least a thousand things about this that are at least as unsolvable as the brexit northern irish border question.
like. just going to take one at random: water rights.
california drinks the colorado river. does renegade breakaway california drink the colorado river? cause I'm pretty sure renegade breakaway california doesn't get to drink the colorado river.
there's like at least 999 other problems at least as bad as that one, but there's nothing resembling a clean solution to that one.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:26 PM on August 31, 2018 [17 favorites]
like. just going to take one at random: water rights.
california drinks the colorado river. does renegade breakaway california drink the colorado river? cause I'm pretty sure renegade breakaway california doesn't get to drink the colorado river.
there's like at least 999 other problems at least as bad as that one, but there's nothing resembling a clean solution to that one.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:26 PM on August 31, 2018 [17 favorites]
CalExit's plan for water:
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:34 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
In normal years, the snow pack supplies about 30 percent of California’s water(Followed by: ... you know what? It doesn't matter, because it's not happening. The short version: it all sounds very plausible until you notice who's on the other side of the negotiating table.)
as it melts in the spring and early summer. The larger the snow pack, the greater
the likelihood California’s reservoirs will receive ample runoff. However, this
snow and the associated runoff is on federal lands and managed by federal
agencies subject to the federal budget. The problem is the federal government is
mismanaging these lands by allowing the forests of the Sierra Nevada mountains
to become too dense.
... Not only has the federal government mismanaged our forests but they have also
been allowing private corporations to extract California’s groundwater from
these forests with permits that have been expired since the late 1980s.
... We are more than capable
of meeting our own water needs if we focus our energies and resources here
at home. Even so, Yes California argues it is unlikely the United States would
deprive California of water from the Colorado River Basin - some of which is
geographically within California’s borders anyway - and there are at least five
reasons why.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:34 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is moronic, and the less attention paid to it the better.
posted by aramaic at 9:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 9:37 PM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
metafilter: This is moronic, and the less attention paid to it the better.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:39 PM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 9:39 PM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
In normal years.........
And also, normal years aren't coming back.
posted by bleep at 10:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [26 favorites]
And also, normal years aren't coming back.
posted by bleep at 10:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [26 favorites]
This is unworkable from multiple perspectives, so it makes sense if it's being promoted by people who actually just want chaos.
Also, imagine US presidential elections without California's electoral votes. The last Democrat who won the presidency without California was Jimmy Carter.
Not to mention the complications with citizenship. What about people born in other states now living in Cali? Or people born in California who've moved to another state?
posted by lisa g at 10:17 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
Also, imagine US presidential elections without California's electoral votes. The last Democrat who won the presidency without California was Jimmy Carter.
Not to mention the complications with citizenship. What about people born in other states now living in Cali? Or people born in California who've moved to another state?
posted by lisa g at 10:17 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
(It's so FUN to think about, though. CA getting to tell Google and Twitter that they have to enforce their TOS against Nazis or have their execs face criminal charges for hate crimes. Telling Twitter to shut off whatsisface's account as a threat to national security. Declaring that all the farm workers in California can be CA citizens if they want; opening the border between California and Mexico. Green taxes to push for less individual car use, more groups, more public transit. Actual laws that deal with cybercrimes. And so on. But I do know damn well it's not happening.)
There's absolutely nothing in any of your rich fantasy life that is California specific; you can just as easily fantasize about a functioning, progressive government over the entire United States without also directly helping the cause of the Russian government and the xenophobia it exports.
I'm not sure that it's FUN to legitimize the destruction of the international order and delegitimize Metafilter, a site that I usually think of as providing and valuing accurate information about current issues.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 10:24 PM on August 31, 2018 [13 favorites]
Usually I'd think something along the lines of, "well, if these idiots are busy doing this, at least they're not doing any real damage..."
But then you consider that stupid stuff like this is going to attract Russian amplification, and pretty soon the bots and sockpuppets/trolls will be on it like ants on a dropped popsicle, and it seems less easy to just eyeroll at.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:27 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
But then you consider that stupid stuff like this is going to attract Russian amplification, and pretty soon the bots and sockpuppets/trolls will be on it like ants on a dropped popsicle, and it seems less easy to just eyeroll at.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:27 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
No.
posted by Toddles at 10:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 10:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
I am actually very into California science fiction utopias (or stories with utopian elements) - there's a whole bunch of them, from Kim Stanley Robinson's Three Californias books to Starhawk's The Fifth Sacred Thing through Ursula Le Guin's Always Coming Home, with fascinating minor work like Pat Murphy's The City Not Long After and Lisa Goldstein's A Mask For The General. Nothing really comparable exists for any other state. There's a rich tradition of "what if California did its own thing". Unfortunately nearly all those books require some apocalypse to befall the rest of the United States first, because the authors clearly recognize that there will be no peaceful departure from the United States.
The whole enterprise rests (to the extent that anyone is sincere) on a huge misunderstanding of capitalism. The bosses in the red states aren't going to think, "mwaha, let's get rid of California, I hate those hippies and the presidency will be ours forever", they're going to think, "We are never creating a huge, wealthy, hostile power to sit on our western border chockablock with military and computer development, also half my stock is in California companies". The United States can't even handle a tiny communist island miles and miles off Florida; what on earth makes anyone think they'd be able to deal with a major social democratic power taking up half our west coast?
posted by Frowner at 11:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [37 favorites]
The whole enterprise rests (to the extent that anyone is sincere) on a huge misunderstanding of capitalism. The bosses in the red states aren't going to think, "mwaha, let's get rid of California, I hate those hippies and the presidency will be ours forever", they're going to think, "We are never creating a huge, wealthy, hostile power to sit on our western border chockablock with military and computer development, also half my stock is in California companies". The United States can't even handle a tiny communist island miles and miles off Florida; what on earth makes anyone think they'd be able to deal with a major social democratic power taking up half our west coast?
posted by Frowner at 11:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [37 favorites]
And I also think they misunderstand the emotional tenor of the Tea Party base - it's an abuser's mentality, and abusers don't say, "you know what, I'm always telling you that you're terrible, I guess that means we should really break up as neatly as possible, why don't you pack up all your nice furniture and we'll decide how to split the record collection". "I hate California, why don't they just leave" isn't the mindset at all.
posted by Frowner at 11:21 PM on August 31, 2018 [24 favorites]
posted by Frowner at 11:21 PM on August 31, 2018 [24 favorites]
It gets said a lot, but they certainly don't actually mean it.
posted by wierdo at 11:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by wierdo at 11:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Do you want more Elon Musks? Because this is how you get more Elon Musks.
"Californians invented the concept of lifestyle. This alone warrants their doom."
-Don DeLillo
posted by loquacious at 11:56 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
"Californians invented the concept of lifestyle. This alone warrants their doom."
-Don DeLillo
posted by loquacious at 11:56 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
I guess I always assumed that getting nosy Californians out of red states' business was the whole point of Calexit. Well, that and enabling Russian ascendance.
posted by ckape at 12:46 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by ckape at 12:46 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
jesus christ though I mean there's at least a thousand things about this that are at least as unsolvable as the brexit northern irish border question.
Should be no problem then. The intractable Northern Ireland situation hasn't halted brexit.
posted by Dysk at 12:51 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Should be no problem then. The intractable Northern Ireland situation hasn't halted brexit.
posted by Dysk at 12:51 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is all with Russian-funding, of course. I'm trying to build a game but I'm not even sure if I can make it as twisted as what's going on in my own state, ugh.
posted by yueliang at 3:15 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by yueliang at 3:15 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
A quick read of the current news should make it clear why this will not work out the way the proponents are assuming it will. Mexico and Canada have been on the receiving end of nonsense from and shit, and both have been allies and neighbours for more than a century.
A new California would very quickly find that an independent nation with no preexisting ties is a much rougher place than they might expect. They might do ok in the long run, but that first decade, with no special access to the North American or Asian markets, would be really rough.
posted by bonehead at 4:41 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
A new California would very quickly find that an independent nation with no preexisting ties is a much rougher place than they might expect. They might do ok in the long run, but that first decade, with no special access to the North American or Asian markets, would be really rough.
posted by bonehead at 4:41 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Let's keep California, but kick out Wyoming and South Carolina just to mess with people.
posted by delfin at 4:45 AM on September 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by delfin at 4:45 AM on September 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
First step: Californian independence.
Second step: a race between the Bay Area and the LA area to see who kicks the other one out first.
posted by doctornemo at 5:43 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Second step: a race between the Bay Area and the LA area to see who kicks the other one out first.
posted by doctornemo at 5:43 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
I think all the discussion about the entanglement of water rights and whether or not the United States would let it happen are secondary to the more important condition for independence in my eyes: Is there popular will for it? Because as long as there's an endurable popular will among the populace there will be hope of some form of home rule or independence. And attempts to extinguish such will also tend to backfire as it only makes people want it even more.
And with that said, there's no popular will for it. I don't see it in the polling where 60% of Californians oppose it, and I don't see it or hear it as I go throughout my day as a Californian talking to other Californians.
posted by FJT at 6:28 AM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
And with that said, there's no popular will for it. I don't see it in the polling where 60% of Californians oppose it, and I don't see it or hear it as I go throughout my day as a Californian talking to other Californians.
posted by FJT at 6:28 AM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'm only going along with this if they change the name of the state to Hollyweird.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:33 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:33 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Do they even have a plan to deal with the large amount of people who would want to leave and take their resources with them under those conditions?
posted by Selena777 at 8:55 AM on September 1, 2018
posted by Selena777 at 8:55 AM on September 1, 2018
OK, but you guys have to take all our Confederate statues, under the well-established rules of Secessionist Musical Chairs.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:18 AM on September 1, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 9:18 AM on September 1, 2018 [10 favorites]
I suppose they have a dream of repeating the 1989 revolutions upon their enemies.
Oh, yeah. Some clown named Igor Panarin said about twenty years ago that the US would disintegrate into four separate nations, under the domination of four separate powers (with Russia getting Alaska back, and Japan getting Hawai'i). Panarin likes to come up with scenarios where America's influence on the globe is negligible.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:22 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh, yeah. Some clown named Igor Panarin said about twenty years ago that the US would disintegrate into four separate nations, under the domination of four separate powers (with Russia getting Alaska back, and Japan getting Hawai'i). Panarin likes to come up with scenarios where America's influence on the globe is negligible.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:22 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
> Also, imagine US presidential elections without California's electoral votes. The last Democrat who won the presidency without California was Jimmy Carter.
You'd think California would have mattered for presidential elections, but only the election of 1876 would have flipped if California's electoral college votes weren't cast*. 1916 would have been closer, but still a win. Often California votes for a close defeat or a landslide. Not that it really matters for future elections, but I thought it was interesting.
*Assuming I read the maps correctly and that this is accurate.
posted by No One Ever Does at 9:24 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
You'd think California would have mattered for presidential elections, but only the election of 1876 would have flipped if California's electoral college votes weren't cast*. 1916 would have been closer, but still a win. Often California votes for a close defeat or a landslide. Not that it really matters for future elections, but I thought it was interesting.
*Assuming I read the maps correctly and that this is accurate.
posted by No One Ever Does at 9:24 AM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is along the lines of "assume a perfectly frictionless, spherical chicken."
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:36 AM on September 1, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 9:36 AM on September 1, 2018 [10 favorites]
How many electoral votes does the chicken get?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:43 AM on September 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:43 AM on September 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
I think this legal argument is intriguing in that it gives us a plausible path for kicking out Florida.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
How many electoral votes does the chicken get?
I think this legal argument is intriguing in that it gives us a plausible path for kicking out Florida.
James K. Yolk says no to the precedent.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:56 AM on September 1, 2018
I think this legal argument is intriguing in that it gives us a plausible path for kicking out Florida.
James K. Yolk says no to the precedent.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 9:56 AM on September 1, 2018
Second step: a race between the Bay Area and the LA area to see who kicks the other one out first.
Oh man, I’ve recently moved to Irvine, but the second this happens I’ll drive up the 5 to pledge my life to President Kershaw and his fight against the rebel General “MadBum” Bumgarner.
posted by sideshow at 9:58 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Oh man, I’ve recently moved to Irvine, but the second this happens I’ll drive up the 5 to pledge my life to President Kershaw and his fight against the rebel General “MadBum” Bumgarner.
posted by sideshow at 9:58 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Maybe we should stash LeBron in Texas until this all blows over. Just to be safe.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:10 AM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:10 AM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
Come on, guys, this is our best chance to make Mega-City Two a reality!
posted by ejs at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by ejs at 10:14 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Ctrl+F, "NCR"
No results.
Nerds, I am disappoint. You're not going to be able to hold the Dam, much less take over the Mojave, with that sort of discipline!
posted by aramaic at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
No results.
Nerds, I am disappoint. You're not going to be able to hold the Dam, much less take over the Mojave, with that sort of discipline!
posted by aramaic at 10:20 AM on September 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
Unfortunately nearly all those books require some apocalypse to befall the rest of the United States first
From Wikipedia, an apocalypse is a "chain of detrimental events to humanity or nature." What would that have to look like in order to count as reality?
posted by aniola at 1:07 PM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
From Wikipedia, an apocalypse is a "chain of detrimental events to humanity or nature." What would that have to look like in order to count as reality?
posted by aniola at 1:07 PM on September 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Unfortunately nearly all those books require some apocalypse to befall the rest of the United States first
now me: hey 1999 me.
1999 me: 'sup future me. So are you living in the apocalypse, yet?
now me: Well Y2K didn't happen, but we lost the World Trade Center in a terrorist attack, the mass murder of school kids is normalized, the ocean is devouring coastal real estate, the internet promotes the rise of online communities of bullies, Prince died-
1999 me: (interrupts) -so you're saying yes.
posted by otherchaz at 3:04 PM on September 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
now me: hey 1999 me.
1999 me: 'sup future me. So are you living in the apocalypse, yet?
now me: Well Y2K didn't happen, but we lost the World Trade Center in a terrorist attack, the mass murder of school kids is normalized, the ocean is devouring coastal real estate, the internet promotes the rise of online communities of bullies, Prince died-
1999 me: (interrupts) -so you're saying yes.
posted by otherchaz at 3:04 PM on September 1, 2018 [14 favorites]
Panarin likes to come up with scenarios where America's influence on the globe is negligible.
I'm more worried about his executive team.
posted by rokusan at 7:20 PM on September 1, 2018
I'm more worried about his executive team.
posted by rokusan at 7:20 PM on September 1, 2018
"The U.S. Government spends more on its military than the next several countries combined"?
It spends more then the next 11 countries combined. It seems reasonable to assume their other claims are equally vague, but I stopped reading at that point so I don't know.
posted by falcon at 12:17 AM on September 2, 2018
It spends more then the next 11 countries combined. It seems reasonable to assume their other claims are equally vague, but I stopped reading at that point so I don't know.
posted by falcon at 12:17 AM on September 2, 2018
Nope! Bad idea.
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 5:23 AM on September 2, 2018
posted by Katjusa Roquette at 5:23 AM on September 2, 2018
I like it, but only as long as we annex Baja as part of the deal (should never have let that go). Even better if we could get Washington, Oregon, and the free state of Jefferson to join the new country - we could call it Pacifica.
posted by Rash at 10:19 AM on September 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Rash at 10:19 AM on September 2, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is a bad idea that I enjoyed learning about. It’s easier to keep track of the crackpots (grifters, bigots, traitors, bad actors) when I know who they are. Thanks, OP.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:05 AM on September 3, 2018
posted by Bella Donna at 5:05 AM on September 3, 2018
Have you looked at the politics of the folks in Jefferson? I'm not certain they'd love their new country. On the other hand, if we're just shit-stirring here then I think it would be a riot to watch the faces of those Trumpster mountain folk finding themselves on the wrong side as the ice floe crack gently widens...
posted by Cris E at 8:30 AM on September 4, 2018
posted by Cris E at 8:30 AM on September 4, 2018
Oh this is so much fun. I was afraid I was going to have to work today, but as I looked at this I was captivated. Screwing with this nonsense is so much better than my real job.
First we need to talk about awarding the new nation its fair share of US government assets. They'll of course get to keep their federal tax revenues. And they should be awarded their portion of the US savings account that was accrued while they were members of the Union (though I think it might be in the red juuuust a bit at this point in time.) Not sure if they want to go by Importance (population? GDP portion") or stay with a simple 2% of the $21Trillion jackpot.
I think there's a very good model for the military bases: Guantanamo Bay. The whole "interacting with the local economy" thing is so messy in, say, Okinawa that a complete embargo would probably be best for everyone.
I'm not a financial expert by any means, but the whole notion of "foreign owned companies" on US stock exchanges could pose some problems for the Silicon Valley firms. I'm assuming they trade in Hong Kong, or will a new exchange be opened in this land of political stability such that huge money firms will want to continue keeping all their assets there?
Here's a gem: "As an independent country, we can adjust the amount of spending we allocate for weapons of war to an amount more consistent with our values as peaceloving Californians. This will free up tens of billions of dollars a year and get Californians out of the business of subsidizing the United States’ foreign agenda while adequately providing for our defense in North America." Oh good, those peacelovers won't have to tolerate all those immoral defense industry jobs paid for by the US DoD. The US govt will pretty much have to pull those contracts back onshore, as it were, and CA can employ those engineers more in line with their beliefs, perhaps as, um, something. Well this won't be a big problem. I mean, how many defense contractors can there be in CA?
Needless to say there's more, but I have to do some work. For example those medical payments are predicated on some shaky assumptions, but they are going to go straight up as the US citizens die (ie baby boomers) and are replaced by folks living completely on the CA medical dime. Also, as those former US folks die not all those boomer assets will remain in the hands of CA citizens.
posted by Cris E at 9:24 AM on September 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
First we need to talk about awarding the new nation its fair share of US government assets. They'll of course get to keep their federal tax revenues. And they should be awarded their portion of the US savings account that was accrued while they were members of the Union (though I think it might be in the red juuuust a bit at this point in time.) Not sure if they want to go by Importance (population? GDP portion") or stay with a simple 2% of the $21Trillion jackpot.
I think there's a very good model for the military bases: Guantanamo Bay. The whole "interacting with the local economy" thing is so messy in, say, Okinawa that a complete embargo would probably be best for everyone.
I'm not a financial expert by any means, but the whole notion of "foreign owned companies" on US stock exchanges could pose some problems for the Silicon Valley firms. I'm assuming they trade in Hong Kong, or will a new exchange be opened in this land of political stability such that huge money firms will want to continue keeping all their assets there?
Here's a gem: "As an independent country, we can adjust the amount of spending we allocate for weapons of war to an amount more consistent with our values as peaceloving Californians. This will free up tens of billions of dollars a year and get Californians out of the business of subsidizing the United States’ foreign agenda while adequately providing for our defense in North America." Oh good, those peacelovers won't have to tolerate all those immoral defense industry jobs paid for by the US DoD. The US govt will pretty much have to pull those contracts back onshore, as it were, and CA can employ those engineers more in line with their beliefs, perhaps as, um, something. Well this won't be a big problem. I mean, how many defense contractors can there be in CA?
Needless to say there's more, but I have to do some work. For example those medical payments are predicated on some shaky assumptions, but they are going to go straight up as the US citizens die (ie baby boomers) and are replaced by folks living completely on the CA medical dime. Also, as those former US folks die not all those boomer assets will remain in the hands of CA citizens.
posted by Cris E at 9:24 AM on September 4, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is stupid, that's not what "revolution or consent" means. It means that a State's unilateral secession is a nullity (because of the "perpetual" and "indissoluble" nature of the union) and therefore must be consented to by the other states (i.e., everyone agrees), or else imposed through a successful revolution. That is more of an application of foundational notions of sovereignty and acknowledgement that revolutions can happen (more or less required by our mythologization of the American revolution) than the anything in the Constitution. It's saying, "they tried it, they lost, they're still the same old State of Texas."
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:47 AM on September 9, 2018
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:47 AM on September 9, 2018
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Wait a minute- the split CA up people were funded by Russia- are these guys funded by Russia too?
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:30 PM on August 31, 2018 [54 favorites]