The WB was pretty much just a Penn Badgley makework project
November 15, 2018 11:14 AM   Subscribe

For no apparent reason, TVGuide.com has chosen to rank all 77 scripted live-action shows aired by the WB over its 11 years, 8 months, and 7 days of broadcasting.
posted by Etrigan (75 comments total) 5 users marked this as a favorite
 
Gilmore Girls below Dawson's Creek? C'mom Dawson's Creek was garbage. Entertaining garbage but still garbage
posted by Automocar at 11:21 AM on November 15, 2018 [5 favorites]


For no apparent reason

Hardcore Buffy fans get antsy if they don't have reason to mention how much they like the show regularly. I suspect the list just was a needed excuse.
posted by gusottertrout at 11:37 AM on November 15, 2018 [22 favorites]


There was a remake of Family Affair? Huh.
posted by Melismata at 11:37 AM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I know there's an 80/20-type thing going on here, but it was wild to me how I've never even heard of anything in the bottom half of the list but found most of the top 20 instantly recognizable and often still at least semi-relevant to 2010s popular culture.
posted by Copronymus at 11:41 AM on November 15, 2018 [7 favorites]


Boy, there sure is a lot of garbage in the world. I'm the prototypical WB viewer and the highest one I've even heard of is Jack & Jill at 31.

The whole list is invalidated by putting Dawson's Creek at #3. I own the whole series on DVD and even I acknowledge it's terrible.
posted by something something at 11:45 AM on November 15, 2018 [9 favorites]


I was just about to mention "You"! We loved it!
posted by Clustercuss at 11:46 AM on November 15, 2018


I haven't seen a single show on this list, but it's killing me that I can't even find a clip or any video online from D.C.
posted by General Malaise at 11:48 AM on November 15, 2018


You could tell me that half of the shows on that list were invented just for this list and I'd believe you. I mean, a vampire detective trying to find atonement in Los Angeles? As if! Anyways, long live Muscle!
posted by Servo5678 at 11:49 AM on November 15, 2018 [5 favorites]


There was a remake of Family Affair?

Kinda burying the lede here. There was a remake of Family Affair with Gary Cole as Uncle Bill AND TIM FREAKIN' CURRY AS MR. FRENCH.
posted by hanov3r at 11:51 AM on November 15, 2018 [15 favorites]


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

For me it was #28, The Steve Harvey Show.
something something got Jack & Jill (#31).

Highest number in the thread gets a terrible gift in the mail from me!
posted by duffell at 11:54 AM on November 15, 2018 [4 favorites]


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

I got to 7th Heaven (#19), but only because of the scandal. Otherwise, Sabrina at #18. And I watched a lot of TV in that era.
posted by General Malaise at 11:58 AM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I giggled a little too much when I saw that one of the stars of Vampire High was actually named Karen Cliche.
posted by zixyer at 12:00 PM on November 15, 2018 [8 favorites]


Wow. That was a whole lotta nothing.
posted by SPrintF at 12:01 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

After I saw Tucker and Dale vs. Evil, I looked around for other Tyler Labine work, so I watched Dead Last (#77) at some point on some streaming service, but after that, probably Cleghorne! (#60).
posted by Etrigan at 12:01 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


.....I think I heard of #51 (Nick Freno, Licensed Teacher). I didn't WATCH it, mind you, I vaguely remember ads about it.

I also remember them advertising the snot out of ZOE, DUNCAN, JACK AND JANE, and thought that UNHAPPILY EVER AFTER was a SCREAMINGLY blatant ripoff of MARRIED WITH CHILDREN to the point that I was wondering why someone didn't sue somebody.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:02 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

13!! Smallville. And then, after that, we started hitting some of my fav shows ever. Weird list.
posted by greermahoney at 12:03 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Highest number in the thread gets a terrible gift in the mail from me!

Best I can do is 76: Tarzan. I remember thinking it had a dumb premise with nowhere to go after the pilot, and sure enough I was right!
posted by Servo5678 at 12:04 PM on November 15, 2018 [5 favorites]


Kinda weird that they call out every other show that migrated to the WB from somewhere else, but forget to mention that "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" started out on ABC.
posted by hanov3r at 12:07 PM on November 15, 2018 [8 favorites]


Etrigan, since you've not only heard of #77 but actually watched it (how bad was Dead Last?), if you memail me your address I'll be happy to send you a gift that is at once terrible and delightful, though only the first half of that promise is guaranteed.

If you don't want to, well, that's understandable too!

Still curious how far down the list everyone else got before seeing the name of a show they recognized.
posted by duffell at 12:07 PM on November 15, 2018


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

I recognized Zoe, Duncan, Jack, and Jane as some sort of thing, although I could not have told you a single thing about it. It's possible I'm confusing it with Two Guys, a Girl, and a Pizza Place.

Truly, late 90s was a time when people thought it was a good idea to name your TV show about cool young people figuring adulthood out with just a list of 3 or more things in the show.
posted by Copronymus at 12:07 PM on November 15, 2018 [4 favorites]


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

62. The Tom Show
posted by hanov3r at 12:09 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

I had a friend who would write "parodies" of songs under the premise that he had a bad radio and would always get the lyrics wrong. When it came time for him to tackle Stairway to Heaven, the first verse ended with:

With a worm-chicken-cat
Watching Cleghorne.


So, technically, I've heard of #60. And now I know what that line was about.
posted by darksasami at 12:09 PM on November 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


I've heard of, but never actually watched, The Tom Show.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:10 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


As the OP, I feel I must disqualify myself from prize contention, so I shall defer to Servo5678 having seen Tarzan.
posted by Etrigan at 12:12 PM on November 15, 2018


I made it to Nick Freno: Licensed Teacher, because my brother-in-law watched it and my wife mentioned it a few times. I think. She definitely mentioned it once.

It's weird because 1995-2002 were my prime years of watching total garbage, but I think the first show on the list I've actually seen is Seventh Heaven which was a legitimate cultural thing for a while.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:14 PM on November 15, 2018


#75 Vampire High was all over my TV here in Canada. It wasn't good.
posted by PennD at 12:15 PM on November 15, 2018


I recognized The O'Keefes at #68 only because we were homeschooling our kids when that show was announced, so the complaining from homeschoolers online was loud. I don't remember ever watching an episode though.

I have to get to Gilmore Girls before I find a show I've watched, and we binged it on Netflix last year. I've seen all of Angel and Buffy too, all well after when they were broadcast though.
posted by COD at 12:19 PM on November 15, 2018


*Endures overpowering flashback to the Most Late 90s Promo of All Time, then clicks through*

Oh hey! Grosse Pointe! That was a fun show for the two and a half episodes it lasted.
posted by Iridic at 12:21 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Birds of Prey was a real missed opportunity with some brilliant (Barbara) and decent (Helena) casting. It was sunk by the fact the production team had its hands shackled by DC as to what they could and couldn't reference, and because they had absolutely no clue who the characters were supposed to be or what to do with them.
posted by sardonyx at 12:22 PM on November 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


Oh, and to answer the other part of the question:

Dead Last may not deserve to be #77, but it certainly doesn't deserve to be higher than about #60. It wasn't actively offensive, either in content or quality, but I recall no redeeming things about it.
posted by Etrigan at 12:32 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


Unhappily Ever After at #30 was the first one I recognized as something I had watched. I wouldn't say it was watchable though.
posted by ODiV at 12:33 PM on November 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


Well, I've heard of about a fifth of these and only ever watched the Gilmore Girls (Of course, I like Joss Whedon and understand that Buffy's great). But it's almost refreshing to be completely unreserved by as a demographic.
posted by es_de_bah at 12:42 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


I was all set to defend Dead Last, until I realized I was thinking of Reaper and I actually have never even heard of Dead Last before.

Tarzan as a Police Procedural made no sense but it was still better than Beauty and the Beast which got 4 seasons.

Nikki is the one I'd like to re-watch, as I recall it was quite charming. Unlike Unhappily Ever After.
posted by zinon at 12:50 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


Same as many others here, The Steve Harvey Show was the first I'd heard of. But again, everything at the top I was familiar with, even the ones I've never seen.

I was really curious to see what was above Buffy. Not surprised with that outcome - as I still rewatch the series from time to time, because it is that good. (overall, there's a lot of dreck in it)
posted by evilangela at 12:50 PM on November 15, 2018


Heard of 40. Birds of Prey, in the way you sometimes hear about pop culture misfires in fandom. And there are a bunch of the not-very-good shows from the early aughts that I vaguely remember them advertising with free textbook covers at school, but I never watched any of them. 18. Sabrina the Teenage Witch is the first one I remember viewing, but I absolutely remember it airing on ABC. Weird!

I never watched Everwood, but there's no way it was better than Roswell. Did Everwood have Shiri Appleby? And aliens? No, I didn't think so.
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:51 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


I watched Everwood and it should be 20 at best.
posted by zinon at 12:54 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


...ok just saw hanov3r's comment, that explains the Sabrina mystery. (And now I'm a little impressed by my kid self's memory.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 12:54 PM on November 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


I'm not sure if I actually remember The Tom Show, or if I just remember that Tom Arnold had a post-Roseanne sitcom that sucked hard and bombed quickly. So I'll go with Birds of Prey, which I'd heard about but (like almost all WB shows except for Buffy) I'd never seen, which I regretted; Dina Meyer showed up in low-rent but enjoyable things such as Starship Troopers, Johnny Mnemonic, and Star Trek: Nemesis (OK, not so enjoyable, but she's the only Romulan in the movie that anyone can remember), and I wish that I'd heard about this show before it was cancelled.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:12 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Also, it sure would be fun to see a ranking listicle like this for UPN.
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:13 PM on November 15, 2018


I feel like Seventh Heaven is not given enough credit for being a trainwreck of a show that was weirdly trashy fun. Hate it for Stephen Collins. I give it major credit for having major plot lines involving Jessica Biel's Mary even though she left the show. Mary had a baby that got some screen time for crying out loud! The fact that even without being in the cast that character had more play than others makes me laugh.
posted by kendrak at 1:15 PM on November 15, 2018


Now do UPN.
posted by runcibleshaw at 1:20 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


OMG! Will this page ever load...? WTF
posted by Windopaene at 1:25 PM on November 15, 2018


I like how it asks you what you're waiting for as it's loading.
posted by ODiV at 1:26 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


OMG! Will this page ever load...? WTF
posted by Windopaene at 4:25 PM on November 15 [+] [!]


I like how it asks you what you're waiting for as it's loading.
posted by ODiV at 4:26 PM on November 15 [+] [!]


(pssst... scroll down)
posted by runcibleshaw at 1:28 PM on November 15, 2018


Dead Last may not deserve to be #77, but it certainly doesn't deserve to be higher than about #60.

I assume it was ranked where it is for the gag more than anything.
posted by tobascodagama at 1:53 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I've apparently seen an episode of #30 because I have vague memories of a Married With Children-esque show that had a stuffed animal, and then nothing until 7th Heaven.

I tried to rewatch Buffy a couple of years ago, but it didn't work for me at all and this broke my heart a little--I'd loved it so much when it was first airing and was one of those people always going on about how it's more than a teen show.

I watched Roswell and the first two seasons of Supernatural when I was in Japan because that is what they had at Tsutaya and it was always snowing. Roswell was fun, but I had trouble telling the two Supernatural dudes apart. I've had students tell me that one is handsome and one is not, but I have no idea which is which.
posted by betweenthebars at 1:59 PM on November 15, 2018


How is SPN still going.
posted by kmz at 2:12 PM on November 15, 2018


How is SPN still going.

That which is undead cannot die.
posted by betweenthebars at 2:14 PM on November 15, 2018 [4 favorites]


Ok wait, what network was Renegade on? The one with the guy who voices Meep.
posted by BeeDo at 2:16 PM on November 15, 2018


Sometimes I cross the continent and then wake up in my hotel room at 6 am unable to go back to sleep and therefore I have seen "Charmed".
posted by acrasis at 2:22 PM on November 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


Buffy the Vampire Slayer was very, very much of its time w/r/t sociopolitical issues, especially its particular brand of feminism. As a young woman, I definitely needed it then, but wow no nope did not age well, so this, uh:

[T]he series is timeless — special effects excluded — and it won't be surprising if it continues to inspire an entirely new generation again soon.

Fucking hell, I hope not.
posted by tzikeh at 2:25 PM on November 15, 2018 [4 favorites]


Gah, that static image over gif thing they did for the top 10 is atrocious.
posted by Gaz Errant at 2:32 PM on November 15, 2018 [5 favorites]


Sometimes I cross the continent and then wake up in my hotel room at 6 am unable to go back to sleep and therefore I have seen "Charmed".

I was in a "work from home" situation for a big chunk of 2004 which became a "no longer employed and can't find another job" situation for another chunk of 2004 and part of 2005. My way of dealing with the depression this generated was to sit in the comfy recliner in the living room, wrapped up in a fluffy blanket, and cry while watching Charmed and ER on TNT. So, I've *seen* Charmed, just not on the WB.
posted by hanov3r at 2:47 PM on November 15, 2018


I'm glad this ranks Jack & Bobby so highly. It's one of my all time favorite canceled-after-a-season-shows and features lots of actors who later appear on Mad Men (and Bradley Cooper!). The concept was interesting and some of the politics felt like they were before their time.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 2:54 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


I think this list is skipping over some of the tonal mismatches of Young Americans, that make it so entertaining. There's a lot of lingering shots of twenty-somethings pretending to be teenagers, sweating slightly, then a cut to a sweating bottle of Coke then back to the teenagers. Then they all jump in a lake. And get out to drink some Coke. The show was sponsored by Coca-Cola and the product placement is delightfully camp.
It has a forbidden love angle too which lands wrong as the characters might be siblings.
And the best Charlie Hunan general Eastern European accent ever.

Well worth a dig out as are the recaps on TWOP.
posted by eyeofthetiger at 3:02 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


> Windopaene:
"OMG! Will this page ever load...? WTF"

Get off my WiFi!
posted by Samizdata at 3:24 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm not sure if I actually remember The Tom Show, or if I just remember that Tom Arnold had a post-Roseanne sitcom that sucked hard and bombed quickly.

He actually had two (at least)! The other one was "The Jackie Thomas Show" and I remember that I saw at least a couple of the episodes. It starred Dennis Boutsikaris who seemed to have the death touch with sit-coms.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 3:27 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


For a couple of years in the late 90s I lived in this mid-sized southern city barely attending a C-grade state university, chain-smoking and generally being depressed, my television (left as a partial security deposit by my surprise junkie roommate) only got one station: The WB. As a result, I’ve seen more of these (and more episodes of “Dawson’s Creek” than i’m Entirely comfortable admitting (Hyperion Bay!). On the other hand, it was because of this that I switched on “Buffy” one night thinking Well, this sounds dumb and it ended up being one of my all time favorite things. So...
posted by thivaia at 4:09 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I suspect these list-makers read Entertainment Weekly at the same time I did. If their next piece is about how great Relativity was, we'll know for sure.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:14 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


40, Birds of Prey, but only because I recently went through Wikipedia looking for all the superhero shows I could find because Young Justice season 3 still hasn't come out. I have not actually watched it nor did I have any idea what the premise is but I knew it existed. After that, nothing until 19, 7th Heaven.

For shows I've actually seen... I think I saw one episode of Smallville when I was 13? Maybe? Unfortunately, the first thing on the list I can guarantee I've seen is Supernatural.
posted by brook horse at 4:46 PM on November 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


73. Twins

I am surprised no one else has mentioned it. It's not like I watched the whole thing or anything, but Melanie Griffith was in it. I figured some people watched it... then again, one season.
posted by Laura in Canada at 6:33 PM on November 15, 2018


Man, the 90s were a good time to be into goth shit.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 9:15 PM on November 15, 2018


Reaper! I only ever saw the first episode or so, but that was a fun show. He just should have used a Dirt Devil for every job, though.
posted by jb at 9:42 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


Network TV nostalgia? Oh, what a night!
posted by Apocryphon at 10:55 PM on November 15, 2018


I was a huge Reaper fan. Was so upset when it got canceled.
posted by greermahoney at 11:14 PM on November 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

I've watched maybe half of the first episode of #76, Tarzan, because... it was kind of intriguing, and then I realized quickly it was not.

Highest show that I actually tried to watch regularly? #40, Birds of Prey, because come on.
posted by numaner at 11:39 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Tarzan as a Police Procedural made no sense but it was still better than Beauty and the Beast which got 4 seasons.

I mean, Lucifer is a still ongoing police procedural and most agree it's good. But the premise still makes no sense.
posted by numaner at 11:42 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


My real complaint about this list is that it keeps linking to tvguide's own pages for actors which are very sparse and mostly has no photos of what they look like when I'm trying to remember what they look like.

And also One Tree Hill can't be described without mentioning the dog eating heart thing

And Popular and Roswell should be higher. God I miss those shows. Unless you're into genre stuff you can skip Roswell, but everyone should go back and watch Popular.
posted by numaner at 11:47 PM on November 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Wow "The Army Show" sounds like a uninspired remake of "McHale's Navy" from the 1960's.
posted by boilermonster at 12:05 AM on November 16, 2018


Master Sergeant Ernest G. Bilko would have something to say about that.
posted by Etrigan at 3:30 AM on November 16, 2018 [1 favorite]


Yes, Etrigan, that was the first thing I thought of too!
posted by Pendragon at 4:33 AM on November 16, 2018 [1 favorite]


> numaner:
"I mean, Lucifer is a still ongoing police procedural and most agree it's good. But the premise still makes no sense."

Well, if you are an immortal and the Lord of Sin, and you are bored and meet a very attractive detective...
posted by Samizdata at 6:09 AM on November 16, 2018 [2 favorites]


I giggled a little too much when I saw that one of the stars of Vampire High was actually named Karen Cliche.

I've only seen maybe four episodes of Vampire High, but I think every single one produced a running gag in my household. It's garbage, but garbage of the highest order. I think my favorite was:
'Who will rescue me from loneliness?'
I gotta go back and finish that turkey off. (There's an interview with the cast someplace that is even more amazing. One of the stars claims it is the best vampire show on TV because it's the only one with him in it.)
posted by mordax at 9:55 AM on November 16, 2018 [2 favorites]


Copronymus: I know there's an 80/20-type thing going on here, but it was wild to me how I've never even heard of anything in the bottom half of the list but found most of the top 20 instantly recognizable and often still at least semi-relevant to 2010s popular culture.

duffell: I'm curious how far everyone else got down the list before seeing a show they'd heard of.

Like Copronymus, I literally don't recognize anything up until #19, but then after that I have watched episodes of and could tell you the premise and major characters of 15 of the top 19 shows.

(The ones I don't recognize are #17 Grounded for Life, #15 Jack & Bobby, #11 Roswell and #9 Popular.)
posted by andrewesque at 11:41 AM on November 16, 2018 [1 favorite]


Unless you're into genre stuff you can skip Roswell, but everyone should go back and watch Popular.

I've been meaning to do just that! There was nothing else on TV like Popular in 1999.

Well, there was, in the sense that Freaks and Geeks was also about siblings from two contrasting high school cliques. But F&G was all about poignant details and subtle character work; Popular made a few early gestures toward earnestness, but aesthetically it was something like the intersection of Heathers and Pete and Pete. (Of course, once Ryan Murphy got all that out of his system he became famous for his spare, disciplined storytelling and tonal control.)
posted by Iridic at 12:26 PM on November 16, 2018 [3 favorites]


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