The Man takes center stage
November 17, 2018 6:45 PM Subscribe
"Broken Face" And All, Becky Lynch Is Suddenly The Biggest Star In WWE: How Rebecca Quin seized the moment to create one of the most iconic photos in women's wrestling history and became one of the biggest things in professional wrestling despite being out of action for an unknown amount of time. (content warning: real blood)
Two questions: 1.Rhonda Rousey is in the WWE? and 2. isn't this all supposed to be fake?
I will never understand wrestling.
posted by fshgrl at 7:24 PM on November 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
I will never understand wrestling.
posted by fshgrl at 7:24 PM on November 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
Thank you for reminding me that this entertainment exists. I grew up watching Prime Time and Raw every week and this is like comfort food to me.
The storylines and match outcomes are basically scripted, but the details of each match, such as moves, as well as dialogue, is usually improvised. It’s basically improv theater with body slams.
posted by shalom at 7:49 PM on November 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
The storylines and match outcomes are basically scripted, but the details of each match, such as moves, as well as dialogue, is usually improvised. It’s basically improv theater with body slams.
posted by shalom at 7:49 PM on November 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't get it. She got hurt at work and that's good?
posted by runcibleshaw at 7:52 PM on November 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by runcibleshaw at 7:52 PM on November 17, 2018 [1 favorite]
1. Yes, Rousey is in the WWE. Some of her other MMA friends are also making that transition.
2. It is supposed to be fake, but it is also a physical endeavor, and accidents happen. It just so happens that accidents tend to happen more often when certain people are in the ring, which has been an ongoing concern with this particular punch-thrower.
Lynch has been a fan favorite, but also an afterthought among WWE management for quite a while now, someone with enough presence to be involved in major storylines but not to come out on top very often. This may well change that substantially.
posted by delfin at 7:52 PM on November 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
2. It is supposed to be fake, but it is also a physical endeavor, and accidents happen. It just so happens that accidents tend to happen more often when certain people are in the ring, which has been an ongoing concern with this particular punch-thrower.
Lynch has been a fan favorite, but also an afterthought among WWE management for quite a while now, someone with enough presence to be involved in major storylines but not to come out on top very often. This may well change that substantially.
posted by delfin at 7:52 PM on November 17, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'll have to out myself as a wrestling fan who happens to be female. In fact, today's NXT Takeover is on my TV right now. I have girlfriends who watch, too, and all of us have graduate degrees. The WWE demographics are shifting away from teenage boys and the product is starting to reflect that.
I don't think I could have started watching a second before I did because I had to wait for the background radiation of sexism to fade to the point where I could watch without feeling insulted all the time. There are still plenty of moments of disappointment (Ronda's latest promos, the lack of story support for the Evolution PPV, everything related to Crown Jewel), but the current slate of women wrestlers is really amazing and talented. They are a true joy to watch.
And yes, the wrestling is not real. In reality it's a combination of Game of Thrones, trashy reality TV and Cirque du Soleil. I love seeing people develop and evolve characters and experiment with gimmicks. (Happy Rusev Day, btw.) I personally don't want people to get hurt for my entertainment. There has been a big push toward being safe, but the injuries that do happen are really hard to take.
This takes us back to Becky. She's always been a fan favorite, but sometimes lost in a roster full of talent. However, this heel turn has truly been spectacular. She's a heel that the audience refuses to boo and is amazingly gifted on the mike. She was not my favorite when she was one of the good guys, but she is captivating in her current incarnation. Her talent for turning mediocre material into gold is remarkable.
The WWE regularly makes decisions that reflect the bottom line rather than what superfans want. This means putting the spotlight on personalities who are known to a broader audience and are capable of bringing in new eyeballs, which means Ronda. This means that Becky was expected to lose to her at Survivor Series. It's an investment to make Ronda look stronger. Now Becky doesn't have to take that loss and compromise the character she has built. Her injury just cemented her as "the Man." It's a little reality mixed in with the kayfabe that makes it potent. We can't know how injured she really is because the WWE is a fiction generator, but we all saw her take that hit, get up, and wear her injury like a badge of honor. Becky now has the chance to build enough heat to be a bigger draw than Ronda. Which is a miracle.
In summary, wrestling is a land of contrasts.
Finally, there is this amazing semi-kayfabe video of Becky dealing with the fallout of her injury. Also, for an additional take, I would recommend this week's podcast episode of Tights & Fights which features three women hosts (I heart regulars Danielle and Lindsey).
posted by Alison at 8:08 PM on November 17, 2018 [44 favorites]
I don't think I could have started watching a second before I did because I had to wait for the background radiation of sexism to fade to the point where I could watch without feeling insulted all the time. There are still plenty of moments of disappointment (Ronda's latest promos, the lack of story support for the Evolution PPV, everything related to Crown Jewel), but the current slate of women wrestlers is really amazing and talented. They are a true joy to watch.
And yes, the wrestling is not real. In reality it's a combination of Game of Thrones, trashy reality TV and Cirque du Soleil. I love seeing people develop and evolve characters and experiment with gimmicks. (Happy Rusev Day, btw.) I personally don't want people to get hurt for my entertainment. There has been a big push toward being safe, but the injuries that do happen are really hard to take.
This takes us back to Becky. She's always been a fan favorite, but sometimes lost in a roster full of talent. However, this heel turn has truly been spectacular. She's a heel that the audience refuses to boo and is amazingly gifted on the mike. She was not my favorite when she was one of the good guys, but she is captivating in her current incarnation. Her talent for turning mediocre material into gold is remarkable.
The WWE regularly makes decisions that reflect the bottom line rather than what superfans want. This means putting the spotlight on personalities who are known to a broader audience and are capable of bringing in new eyeballs, which means Ronda. This means that Becky was expected to lose to her at Survivor Series. It's an investment to make Ronda look stronger. Now Becky doesn't have to take that loss and compromise the character she has built. Her injury just cemented her as "the Man." It's a little reality mixed in with the kayfabe that makes it potent. We can't know how injured she really is because the WWE is a fiction generator, but we all saw her take that hit, get up, and wear her injury like a badge of honor. Becky now has the chance to build enough heat to be a bigger draw than Ronda. Which is a miracle.
In summary, wrestling is a land of contrasts.
Finally, there is this amazing semi-kayfabe video of Becky dealing with the fallout of her injury. Also, for an additional take, I would recommend this week's podcast episode of Tights & Fights which features three women hosts (I heart regulars Danielle and Lindsey).
posted by Alison at 8:08 PM on November 17, 2018 [44 favorites]
I'm glad that they're not trying to do the whole heel thing with her anymore.
As a wrestling related aside, if you get a chance to watch the Ambrose doc that they just put out, do it. The whole thing works in kayfabe, even though the first 90% of it is ostensibly (and somewhat actually) real. It's the best thing WWE has put out in ages.
posted by bootlegpop at 8:11 PM on November 17, 2018
As a wrestling related aside, if you get a chance to watch the Ambrose doc that they just put out, do it. The whole thing works in kayfabe, even though the first 90% of it is ostensibly (and somewhat actually) real. It's the best thing WWE has put out in ages.
posted by bootlegpop at 8:11 PM on November 17, 2018
Becky Lynch is radiant and her joy as a natural performer and fighter makes my heart swell, and I’ve been waiting for years for the day they realize Ronda Rousey is a natural born heel and let her fully unleash her awful personality into a character. If this story arc is a build-up to that happening, *chef kiss*
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:18 PM on November 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 8:18 PM on November 17, 2018 [4 favorites]
It's not that wrestling is fake - it's that wrestling is fiction. It's about storytelling. And it's storytelling that I happen to love as a long-time female fan who also holds a graduate degree like Alison above. I'm behind on watching (haven't seen Evolution yet) so can't really comment on the current storylines but am super excited about what I've been hearing. I love Becky Lynch and many of the female wrestlers. I'm looking forward to the day that women main event Wrestlemania. I will cry so hard when that happens. It's no longer if.
posted by acidnova at 8:30 PM on November 17, 2018 [21 favorites]
posted by acidnova at 8:30 PM on November 17, 2018 [21 favorites]
I haven't watched wresting since I was a kid, but the best explanation of the "realness" of it I've ever heard (and, alas, I can't remember who said/wrote it) is that pro wrestlers are like stunt performers. Both are acting out a representation of a fictional event with a predetermined outcome, but both jobs require actual skill, athleticism, planning, etc, and the possibility of injury is real.
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 8:54 PM on November 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 8:54 PM on November 17, 2018 [9 favorites]
Sounds like it's time to link Wrestling Isn't Wrestling again (previously), my favorite primer to the 'But is it real?' question.
posted by persona at 9:19 PM on November 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by persona at 9:19 PM on November 17, 2018 [2 favorites]
I will never understand wrestling.
Kayfabe.
It’s also how you should consider Trump.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:47 PM on November 17, 2018 [6 favorites]
Kayfabe.
It’s also how you should consider Trump.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:47 PM on November 17, 2018 [6 favorites]
Both are acting out a representation of a fictional event with a predetermined outcome, but both jobs require actual skill, athleticism, planning, etc, and the possibility of injury is real.
It's also worth pointing out that the audience is totally, overwhelmingly in on the act these days. In fact, being in on the act is key to their enjoyment. Fans care about the writing and the storylines. They also care about the performers, so here's the thing with her injury: by and large, if a wrestler gets hurt in the ring, it's usually considered the fault of the wrestler who hurt them. And as with injuries for any athlete--and yes, this is athletic as hell--it's a big deal. There's "heat" for "oooh, Wrestler X is a bad guy (today)," and then there's "Wrestler X is actually hurting people, wtf, what an asshole."
I haven't been following WWE for a few years, but I've been glad to see the women's division make huge improvements. They've wasted talent for a long time before the current era. I did see the Twitter reaction to Lynch being injured, though, and I was taken by how the whole conversation sounded exactly the same way it would've if it had been a men's match. I didn't see a shred of "lolz, girls" in the mix. Every wow, every complaint, every take was as invested in the spectacle and the performers as if it had been any other conversation in the era. Considering where WWE's women's division has been in the past, that said an awful lot to me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:55 PM on November 17, 2018 [13 favorites]
It's also worth pointing out that the audience is totally, overwhelmingly in on the act these days. In fact, being in on the act is key to their enjoyment. Fans care about the writing and the storylines. They also care about the performers, so here's the thing with her injury: by and large, if a wrestler gets hurt in the ring, it's usually considered the fault of the wrestler who hurt them. And as with injuries for any athlete--and yes, this is athletic as hell--it's a big deal. There's "heat" for "oooh, Wrestler X is a bad guy (today)," and then there's "Wrestler X is actually hurting people, wtf, what an asshole."
I haven't been following WWE for a few years, but I've been glad to see the women's division make huge improvements. They've wasted talent for a long time before the current era. I did see the Twitter reaction to Lynch being injured, though, and I was taken by how the whole conversation sounded exactly the same way it would've if it had been a men's match. I didn't see a shred of "lolz, girls" in the mix. Every wow, every complaint, every take was as invested in the spectacle and the performers as if it had been any other conversation in the era. Considering where WWE's women's division has been in the past, that said an awful lot to me.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:55 PM on November 17, 2018 [13 favorites]
it's an interesting but fucked up industry, and likewise tracing its lineage from the carnival into a product designed for mass consumption reveals a fascinating but ugly trail. kayfabe was essentially a massive conspiracy, and i needn't tell you of the bad shit that happens behind such walls of secrecy. in a way, kayfabe isn't gone, even though everyone knows it's "fake" (as the man says: it ain't fake, it's booked.) it's simply become more sophisticated, with multiple levels of chicanery, and make no mistake, it's still a carny business, through and through. the industry has been dominated for thirty years by an old, deeply out of touch man who actually kinda fucking hates wrestling, who would rather be doing football or body building competitions, but he can't, because he's still a carny at heart, and so he has to use rasslin' like his daddy, and he resents it, and so he does the best he can to keep wrestling out of his product. and he, like most old men who have been promoters in the wrestling industry, has made his bones off the consumption of young bodies, encouraging a brutally difficult lifestyle (seriously, wwe schedules are insane, these cats are expected to have in excess of 200 matches a year, surgery-requiring injuries are common, a concussion is one weary, over-traveled botch away every night.) there are other options, of course, more than ever in a way, but most of them, while they can often provide a superior wrestling product, pay almost all of the workers a garbage amount, and really 98% of indie wrestlers have the goal of eventually joining the wwe, where, while they won't have company-provided health insurance (being independent contractors and all,) they'll at least have a steady paycheck that is several orders of magnitude more than they've ever made before in the industry.
i could go on and on about the ills of "the business" but i think it's pretty clear that i kinda love it, even though it makes me feel kinda gross. i enjoy the esoteric bullshit surrounding the product the most, but occasionally, the in-ring action makes me feel something visceral and pure like almost nothing else, tells a story that engages in the way that only this specific medium can, and it makes me long for an industry that isn't terribly racist and sexist and classist and... well, you know how this goes. i won't be a total pessimist and say that's impossible. it certainly is better than it used to be, which is more of a deep condemnation of the past rather than an endorsement of the present. but to be on topic, they could really go a long way in engendering good will by getting behind becky lynch, who's obviously generating massive amounts of heat, and injecting a bit of life in a product that has become fairly stale. the company, that is to say, the old man, sorta hates it when people get over on their own, but very occasionally he gets overruled by the audience to the point where he caves. lynch may have that kind of heat, the kind they want rousey to have, and i hope they don't cool her off soon as some sort of weird punishment over that. they certainly are that petty, being carnies and all, but sometimes the rasslin' gods let someone ascend to their full potential, and lynch might be that first true break-out star that the modern women's division needs to move further along that interminable road toward parity with "the boys." again, i don't want to be a pessimist, but... the old man hates mma less than he hates rasslin', and he's invested a lot in rousey. this is a feud that could print money, but the old man is stubborn, and wants rousey to be what lynch is becoming. so the road ahead for becky is fraught and weighed against her, but she's pretty awesome and has the chance to grab that serendipitous moment that once in a while comes along in wrestling and turns people into legends.
gosh that's a lot of words about wrestling for a saturday night. tldr: wrestling's terrible, wrestling's great, becky lynch is way over and it would be nice if the company would get the hell out of her way.
posted by rotten at 11:55 PM on November 17, 2018 [19 favorites]
i could go on and on about the ills of "the business" but i think it's pretty clear that i kinda love it, even though it makes me feel kinda gross. i enjoy the esoteric bullshit surrounding the product the most, but occasionally, the in-ring action makes me feel something visceral and pure like almost nothing else, tells a story that engages in the way that only this specific medium can, and it makes me long for an industry that isn't terribly racist and sexist and classist and... well, you know how this goes. i won't be a total pessimist and say that's impossible. it certainly is better than it used to be, which is more of a deep condemnation of the past rather than an endorsement of the present. but to be on topic, they could really go a long way in engendering good will by getting behind becky lynch, who's obviously generating massive amounts of heat, and injecting a bit of life in a product that has become fairly stale. the company, that is to say, the old man, sorta hates it when people get over on their own, but very occasionally he gets overruled by the audience to the point where he caves. lynch may have that kind of heat, the kind they want rousey to have, and i hope they don't cool her off soon as some sort of weird punishment over that. they certainly are that petty, being carnies and all, but sometimes the rasslin' gods let someone ascend to their full potential, and lynch might be that first true break-out star that the modern women's division needs to move further along that interminable road toward parity with "the boys." again, i don't want to be a pessimist, but... the old man hates mma less than he hates rasslin', and he's invested a lot in rousey. this is a feud that could print money, but the old man is stubborn, and wants rousey to be what lynch is becoming. so the road ahead for becky is fraught and weighed against her, but she's pretty awesome and has the chance to grab that serendipitous moment that once in a while comes along in wrestling and turns people into legends.
gosh that's a lot of words about wrestling for a saturday night. tldr: wrestling's terrible, wrestling's great, becky lynch is way over and it would be nice if the company would get the hell out of her way.
posted by rotten at 11:55 PM on November 17, 2018 [19 favorites]
Not really a wrestling fan, but it was on the breakroom TV a lot at my old job, and I became a Becky fan. She is great, and I think she SHOULD be a face.
posted by Samizdata at 5:39 AM on November 18, 2018
posted by Samizdata at 5:39 AM on November 18, 2018
rotten has got it w/r/t Vince having invested a lot in Rousey, and that Becky has the rare chance to grab a brass ring, but in a lot of ways Vince doesn't want her to grab it. He's a petty, stubborn man and could easily punish her for getting herself over by relegating her storylines to the shadows, especially now that she's injured. I hope he sees her popularity and lets himself ride that wave to even more riches, but it wouldn't be unheard of for him to get bitter and angry that she's more popular than Rousey - or think he knows better than the fans - and bury her in retaliation. More than him hating wrestling, as rotten posited above, I wonder if he hates the fans most of all.
I'm a woman and a wrestling fan, but I don't think the current shift in the demographics of wrestling fans is the first one. Go back and watch old PPVs from the 80s and even early 90s - there are TONS of women in the audience. I think WWE drove women away with the attitude era garbage in the late 90s and just the generally trash product until fairly recently, but this is not the first time there have been significant numbers of female fans.
The rise in popularity, talent, and production values in indie wrestling - and its easier availability via streaming services - has in some ways forced Vince's hand in terms of putting out a better product. Some might argue that the true internet holier-than-thou smarks turn their nose up at WWE, but I don't think that's very true. In theory I prefer indie and other wrestling promotions over WWE for a lot of reasons (especially not wanting my eyeballs and dollars going to support a family that is so close to the current administration that Vince's wife is on Trump's cabinet) but the fact of it is Raw and Smackdown are on TV and take no money or effort to watch, and it's a lot of what wrestling fans are talking about on twitter and in podcasts, so I sometimes watch them; and I don't think I'm alone.
My love for wrestling is complicated, as it is for many fans. It's a brutal industry, and the WWE is a garbage fire company that doesn't deserve our support. But there are these incredibly smart, dedicated, and talented performers that find a way to shine through all that bullshit, and it's hard not to love them and want to watch them and support them. Most of the time when I think of WWE I think of *them*, not Vince and his garbage.
posted by misskaz at 6:57 AM on November 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
I'm a woman and a wrestling fan, but I don't think the current shift in the demographics of wrestling fans is the first one. Go back and watch old PPVs from the 80s and even early 90s - there are TONS of women in the audience. I think WWE drove women away with the attitude era garbage in the late 90s and just the generally trash product until fairly recently, but this is not the first time there have been significant numbers of female fans.
The rise in popularity, talent, and production values in indie wrestling - and its easier availability via streaming services - has in some ways forced Vince's hand in terms of putting out a better product. Some might argue that the true internet holier-than-thou smarks turn their nose up at WWE, but I don't think that's very true. In theory I prefer indie and other wrestling promotions over WWE for a lot of reasons (especially not wanting my eyeballs and dollars going to support a family that is so close to the current administration that Vince's wife is on Trump's cabinet) but the fact of it is Raw and Smackdown are on TV and take no money or effort to watch, and it's a lot of what wrestling fans are talking about on twitter and in podcasts, so I sometimes watch them; and I don't think I'm alone.
My love for wrestling is complicated, as it is for many fans. It's a brutal industry, and the WWE is a garbage fire company that doesn't deserve our support. But there are these incredibly smart, dedicated, and talented performers that find a way to shine through all that bullshit, and it's hard not to love them and want to watch them and support them. Most of the time when I think of WWE I think of *them*, not Vince and his garbage.
posted by misskaz at 6:57 AM on November 18, 2018 [7 favorites]
In the 80s, the TV/Production company I worked for had mobiles and one of their steady gigs was pro wrestling. I was onstaff for one taping.
It's also worth pointing out that the audience is totally, overwhelmingly in on the act these days.
No foolin. The audience at that taping was the LOUDEST, most reactive audience I've ever heard anywhere. I believe there were warmup bouts with lower-ranked fighters before the taped main events to wind up the audience, and I think there also was an untaped grand-finale bout at the end that was like a big fat encore for the audience.
Pro wrestling is reality-TV's loud, boorish, gaudy great-uncle. A very physical clown act with story arcs.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:39 AM on November 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's also worth pointing out that the audience is totally, overwhelmingly in on the act these days.
No foolin. The audience at that taping was the LOUDEST, most reactive audience I've ever heard anywhere. I believe there were warmup bouts with lower-ranked fighters before the taped main events to wind up the audience, and I think there also was an untaped grand-finale bout at the end that was like a big fat encore for the audience.
Pro wrestling is reality-TV's loud, boorish, gaudy great-uncle. A very physical clown act with story arcs.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:39 AM on November 18, 2018 [1 favorite]
She got hurt at work and that's good?
Wrestling is a genre of theatre. This is what "the show must go on" looks like when taken to the nth level. It's bad that she got hurt, but she's being given due credit as an actor for taking that injury and improv-ing it into a transcendent moment of character building.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
Wrestling is a genre of theatre. This is what "the show must go on" looks like when taken to the nth level. It's bad that she got hurt, but she's being given due credit as an actor for taking that injury and improv-ing it into a transcendent moment of character building.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 8:41 AM on November 18, 2018 [10 favorites]
I'm a woman and a wrestling fan, but I don't think the current shift in the demographics of wrestling fans is the first one. Go back and watch old PPVs from the 80s and even early 90s - there are TONS of women in the audience. I think WWE drove women away with the attitude era garbage in the late 90s and just the generally trash product until fairly recently, but this is not the first time there have been significant numbers of female fans.
As with most things pro-wrestling-related, it’s all cyclical. When wrestling has a boom period (as it did in the 1920s when the Gold Dust Trio fully embraced its fakeness; in the 1940s when Gorgeous George fully embraced television; in the every-decade-or-so rises since Hulkamania crested in the 1980s), the larger audience by necessity includes women (and other demographics besides the young cishet white dude). And then they’re pretty much the first to go when the bust comes, largely because promoters have historically retreated to appealing to the YCWD as soon as their audiences slip even a little.
One of the major differences with the current boom cycle, though, is how loudly the new non-cishet-male fans — and their more experienced counterparts who can finally attend an intentionally safer atmosphere — are expressing themselves and saying “Give us what we want too.” And that (plus the sclerotic top of the card in WWE) has brought along a lot of the YCWD demo to realize that, hey, women’s wrestling is just as good as, and therefore occasionally better than, the men-only version.
The Man is dead. Long live The Man.
posted by Etrigan at 9:09 AM on November 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
As with most things pro-wrestling-related, it’s all cyclical. When wrestling has a boom period (as it did in the 1920s when the Gold Dust Trio fully embraced its fakeness; in the 1940s when Gorgeous George fully embraced television; in the every-decade-or-so rises since Hulkamania crested in the 1980s), the larger audience by necessity includes women (and other demographics besides the young cishet white dude). And then they’re pretty much the first to go when the bust comes, largely because promoters have historically retreated to appealing to the YCWD as soon as their audiences slip even a little.
One of the major differences with the current boom cycle, though, is how loudly the new non-cishet-male fans — and their more experienced counterparts who can finally attend an intentionally safer atmosphere — are expressing themselves and saying “Give us what we want too.” And that (plus the sclerotic top of the card in WWE) has brought along a lot of the YCWD demo to realize that, hey, women’s wrestling is just as good as, and therefore occasionally better than, the men-only version.
The Man is dead. Long live The Man.
posted by Etrigan at 9:09 AM on November 18, 2018 [2 favorites]
It isn't "good" that Becky got hurt, it is wildly unlikely that anyone could get hurt at such a critical time, both for them and the company, and not only avoid losing momentum but come out more popular than any result in a now cancelled big match could provide.
She was injured just a few days before one of WWE's "big four" tent pole shows of the year, where she was to fight Ronda Rousey for he first time. Rousey came into the company earlier this year white hot from her mainstream fame and MMA credibility, in every way the preordained new face of the company, and for Becky organically overcome everything to overshadow her like this is a once in a generation feat, and /that/ is why we are so excited about Becky Lynch. Not the injury itself, but how she managed to avert certain disaster and come out on top.
(Note: I love both women and think they represent everything good about WWE and the changes happening there, both for women and overall. But Bex is my steampunkin', quinoa-chompin', pun-lovin' girl for life.)
posted by seraphine at 2:17 PM on November 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
She was injured just a few days before one of WWE's "big four" tent pole shows of the year, where she was to fight Ronda Rousey for he first time. Rousey came into the company earlier this year white hot from her mainstream fame and MMA credibility, in every way the preordained new face of the company, and for Becky organically overcome everything to overshadow her like this is a once in a generation feat, and /that/ is why we are so excited about Becky Lynch. Not the injury itself, but how she managed to avert certain disaster and come out on top.
(Note: I love both women and think they represent everything good about WWE and the changes happening there, both for women and overall. But Bex is my steampunkin', quinoa-chompin', pun-lovin' girl for life.)
posted by seraphine at 2:17 PM on November 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Okay, I l know this is 100% an accident of fate, but during that “this is my game” moment, Becky Lynch is dressed like, and from far away *really* resembles, “Little Earthquakes” era Tori Amos. Mick Foley’s love for Tori and that album have always been a bright moment in wrestling culture for me, and not to take away from her own moment, but seeing Becky with the crimson mask making a visual callback to that makes me really happy.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:29 PM on November 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 9:29 PM on November 18, 2018 [3 favorites]
Thank you, Etrigan, for continuing to post wrestling FPPs. As a lifelong wrestling fan, I love them!
I think when WWE tried to turn Becky heel, they didn't realize that most of us were once a Becky facing a primped, pushed, and pedigreed Charlotte Flair.
posted by kimberussell at 9:06 AM on November 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I think when WWE tried to turn Becky heel, they didn't realize that most of us were once a Becky facing a primped, pushed, and pedigreed Charlotte Flair.
posted by kimberussell at 9:06 AM on November 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
there are other options, of course, more than ever in a way, but most of them, while they can often provide a superior wrestling product, pay almost all of the workers a garbage amount, and really 98% of indie wrestlers have the goal of eventually joining the wwe
I would be curious to see a comparison of what kind of money different types of wrestlers make. I think it's pretty well-established at this point that part of why the Young Bucks haven't moved to WWE is because it would be a pay cut. Sure, they're an exception in a lot of ways. But I think that for wrestlers that (1) are extremely talented; (2) don't have the body type to be WWE main-eventers; and (3) have a good mind for self-promotion; the possibilities outside of WWE are better than ever. Guys like Joey Ryan and Colt Cabana have become household names among wrestling fans, thanks entirely to their savviness at selling themselves as unique products.
And then I compare that to Chris Hero, who was one of the biggest indie wrestlers in the world, and now he's basically stuck at the bottom of the pile in WWE. Five years ago, everyone was wearing his T-shirt. Now, I don't think WWE even has any Kassius Ohno merch.
In theory I prefer indie and other wrestling promotions over WWE for a lot of reasons (especially not wanting my eyeballs and dollars going to support a family that is so close to the current administration that Vince's wife is on Trump's cabinet)
I've been thinking a lot about that lately too. I haven't canceled the WWE Network yet, but I won't be seeing their PPV in San Jose next month.
I've also basically quit supporting Ring of Honor for similar reasons (ROH is owned by Sinclair). For people reading this thread who are curious about getting into indie wrestling, consider seeking out the companies that are actually owned by wrestlers. Chikara is a great company with a sort of comic book / scifi aesthetic owned and run by the great Mike Quackenbush. Pro Wrestling Guerilla is one of the world's great purveyors of "flippy shit" wrestling, and it's owned by a group of current and retired wrestlers.
And whatever company the Young Bucks are clearly on the verge of announcing.
posted by roll truck roll at 12:52 PM on November 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
I would be curious to see a comparison of what kind of money different types of wrestlers make. I think it's pretty well-established at this point that part of why the Young Bucks haven't moved to WWE is because it would be a pay cut. Sure, they're an exception in a lot of ways. But I think that for wrestlers that (1) are extremely talented; (2) don't have the body type to be WWE main-eventers; and (3) have a good mind for self-promotion; the possibilities outside of WWE are better than ever. Guys like Joey Ryan and Colt Cabana have become household names among wrestling fans, thanks entirely to their savviness at selling themselves as unique products.
And then I compare that to Chris Hero, who was one of the biggest indie wrestlers in the world, and now he's basically stuck at the bottom of the pile in WWE. Five years ago, everyone was wearing his T-shirt. Now, I don't think WWE even has any Kassius Ohno merch.
In theory I prefer indie and other wrestling promotions over WWE for a lot of reasons (especially not wanting my eyeballs and dollars going to support a family that is so close to the current administration that Vince's wife is on Trump's cabinet)
I've been thinking a lot about that lately too. I haven't canceled the WWE Network yet, but I won't be seeing their PPV in San Jose next month.
I've also basically quit supporting Ring of Honor for similar reasons (ROH is owned by Sinclair). For people reading this thread who are curious about getting into indie wrestling, consider seeking out the companies that are actually owned by wrestlers. Chikara is a great company with a sort of comic book / scifi aesthetic owned and run by the great Mike Quackenbush. Pro Wrestling Guerilla is one of the world's great purveyors of "flippy shit" wrestling, and it's owned by a group of current and retired wrestlers.
And whatever company the Young Bucks are clearly on the verge of announcing.
posted by roll truck roll at 12:52 PM on November 19, 2018 [1 favorite]
Another way to look at professional wrestling, regarding the “isn’t that fake?” question: it’s all a story, or a series of stories, some of them are great (Becky Lynch vs the world, Daniel Bryan vs his neck and brain and the Miz) and some of them are terrible (anything involving the Bella Twins) but in addition to being a story, it’s also an incredibly fast paced acrobatic exhibition where the absolute priority in every match is protecting your coworker from harm. Especially as the high flyer moves and dives out of the ring onto the floor become more and more prevalent, wrestling is an act of faith that the person you’re supposed to look like you’re fighting is actually going to be there to catch you, to adjust your trajectory so you land on your back, and not your neck or head.
In simple terms, the object is to appear to be beating your opponent senseless for the crowd, while doing your best to take care of them while creating a spectacle. That’s where Lynch is amazing, and where Nia Jax has so much work to do, she should honestly be pulled from Raw and sent back to WWEs training center in Florida. Lynch isn’t even close to the first person she’s injured, and with Lynch’s history of head injuries, it could honestly be a while before she comes back. That’s a shame, because she’s taking on (and destroying) all comers on Twitter* which is definitely worth a watch.
Seriously, WWE Twitter is one of the only things worth following on the platform. You have a bunch of pretty hilarious people, all giving tweeting in kayfabe, advancing feuds, all sorts of stuff. And Becky Lynch is relentless. Worth checking out.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:55 PM on November 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
In simple terms, the object is to appear to be beating your opponent senseless for the crowd, while doing your best to take care of them while creating a spectacle. That’s where Lynch is amazing, and where Nia Jax has so much work to do, she should honestly be pulled from Raw and sent back to WWEs training center in Florida. Lynch isn’t even close to the first person she’s injured, and with Lynch’s history of head injuries, it could honestly be a while before she comes back. That’s a shame, because she’s taking on (and destroying) all comers on Twitter* which is definitely worth a watch.
Seriously, WWE Twitter is one of the only things worth following on the platform. You have a bunch of pretty hilarious people, all giving tweeting in kayfabe, advancing feuds, all sorts of stuff. And Becky Lynch is relentless. Worth checking out.
posted by Ghidorah at 4:55 PM on November 19, 2018 [3 favorites]
She was injured just a few days before one of WWE's "big four" tent pole shows of the year, where she was to fight Ronda Rousey for he first time. Rousey came into the company earlier this year white hot from her mainstream fame and MMA credibility, in every way the preordained new face of the company, and for Becky organically overcome everything to overshadow her like this is a once in a generation feat, and /that/ is why we are so excited about Becky Lynch. Not the injury itself, but how she managed to avert certain disaster and come out on top.
It's worth remembering that once in a generation means about once in seven years; Becky's reminding me quite a lot of Daniel Bryan of about seven years ago who wasn't meant to get over either and ddi it despite the WWE. And for getting over against greater odds among the women there was the A J Lee of eight years ago who was a five foot two nerd in relatively sensible clothes and completely against the WWE's type. Eight years before that, and against even greater odds there was the Trish Stratus/Lita feud that actually made the women's championship mean something for about the first time.
And for non-WWE promotions I need to catch back up with Lucha Underground. And I'm not aware they even have a women's division, but I've been meaning to look into NJPW for a while as almost everything I'm hearing out of it is good.
Finally I second Ghidorah above. Protecting your partner from harm is one of the core parts of the show, and it's what allows for the acrobatic work and for the whole show to work properly. Nia Jax failed badly enough she should go back to developmental (hell, Rousey trains there a lot). Also seconded that almost anything involving the Bella Twins is terrible; they recently tried to take credit for the women's revolution, which as someone else pointed out, is like Louis XVI taking credit for the French Revolution.
posted by Francis at 6:29 AM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
It's worth remembering that once in a generation means about once in seven years; Becky's reminding me quite a lot of Daniel Bryan of about seven years ago who wasn't meant to get over either and ddi it despite the WWE. And for getting over against greater odds among the women there was the A J Lee of eight years ago who was a five foot two nerd in relatively sensible clothes and completely against the WWE's type. Eight years before that, and against even greater odds there was the Trish Stratus/Lita feud that actually made the women's championship mean something for about the first time.
And for non-WWE promotions I need to catch back up with Lucha Underground. And I'm not aware they even have a women's division, but I've been meaning to look into NJPW for a while as almost everything I'm hearing out of it is good.
Finally I second Ghidorah above. Protecting your partner from harm is one of the core parts of the show, and it's what allows for the acrobatic work and for the whole show to work properly. Nia Jax failed badly enough she should go back to developmental (hell, Rousey trains there a lot). Also seconded that almost anything involving the Bella Twins is terrible; they recently tried to take credit for the women's revolution, which as someone else pointed out, is like Louis XVI taking credit for the French Revolution.
posted by Francis at 6:29 AM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
I find it "interesting" how smarks love the Miz, who is also born of reality TV, continues to star in reality TV, and is a passable wrestler (though good storyteller and talker), but love to hate the Bellas like they are a crime against wrestling. Are the Bellas my cup of tea? No. But Nikki broke her literal neck for this career and came back. IMO, women's wrestling will truly have achieved equality when we're allowed a range of kinds of characters and wrestlers. Not all men have to be Seth Rollins, so why do all women have to be Becky Lynch? Not every minute of every 3-hour RAW and 2-hour Smackdown and 8537-hour PPV has to be for "us."
TBH I respect the hustle of women who did what they needed to do back when their best chance for a paycheck was being mostly a pretty face, and continued to try to evolve as the industry changed. They may not be technical masters, but Nikki especially is a much better wrestler than she used to be. (They're both still cringingly terrible on the mic for sure.) But they're more a part of the women's wrestling evolution/revolution than fucking TERF johnny-come-lately Rousey, that's for sure.
posted by misskaz at 7:55 AM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
TBH I respect the hustle of women who did what they needed to do back when their best chance for a paycheck was being mostly a pretty face, and continued to try to evolve as the industry changed. They may not be technical masters, but Nikki especially is a much better wrestler than she used to be. (They're both still cringingly terrible on the mic for sure.) But they're more a part of the women's wrestling evolution/revolution than fucking TERF johnny-come-lately Rousey, that's for sure.
posted by misskaz at 7:55 AM on November 20, 2018 [2 favorites]
TERF and Sandy Hook truther - she's the worst in just about every way.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 8:05 AM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 8:05 AM on November 20, 2018 [3 favorites]
She's so horrible that my only reaction to learning (as a non-follower of wrestling who didn't even know she was in the WWE) that she's Vince's favourite was, "Yeah, that makes sense."
posted by tobascodagama at 8:15 AM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by tobascodagama at 8:15 AM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
They may not be technical masters, but Nikki especially is a much better wrestler than she used to be. (They're both still cringingly terrible on the mic for sure.) But they're more a part of the women's wrestling evolution/revolution than fucking TERF johnny-come-lately Rousey, that's for sure.
Nikki deserves some respect, certainly, and I agree her wrestling has improved drastically. She's just been overpushed and suffers a lot of the same hate Roman Reigns does; if she weren't e.g. the longest reigning Diva's Champion but were somewhere round the midcard there'd probably be no problem with her. (Roman could absolutely have made it to the top with cheers with better writing; he's an excellent wrestler and when he's allowed to be himself he's pretty good on the mic.)
As for Brie? She's a danger to both herself and others. In September alone she managed to (a) botch two suicide dives, (b) probably injure Zelina Vega with a running knee to the face, and (c) knock Liv Morgan out by botching yes kicks to kick her twice in the face. Four dangerous botches in the space of a month is a huge issue and a long way from simply not being a technical master.
And in a nasty coincidence, as well as injuring Becky Lynch, Nia Jax injured Zelina Vega earlier this month. Which is part of why people want her back in developmental.
And Rousey's a Sandy Hook Truther? Ugh.
posted by Francis at 9:32 AM on November 20, 2018
Nikki deserves some respect, certainly, and I agree her wrestling has improved drastically. She's just been overpushed and suffers a lot of the same hate Roman Reigns does; if she weren't e.g. the longest reigning Diva's Champion but were somewhere round the midcard there'd probably be no problem with her. (Roman could absolutely have made it to the top with cheers with better writing; he's an excellent wrestler and when he's allowed to be himself he's pretty good on the mic.)
As for Brie? She's a danger to both herself and others. In September alone she managed to (a) botch two suicide dives, (b) probably injure Zelina Vega with a running knee to the face, and (c) knock Liv Morgan out by botching yes kicks to kick her twice in the face. Four dangerous botches in the space of a month is a huge issue and a long way from simply not being a technical master.
And in a nasty coincidence, as well as injuring Becky Lynch, Nia Jax injured Zelina Vega earlier this month. Which is part of why people want her back in developmental.
And Rousey's a Sandy Hook Truther? Ugh.
posted by Francis at 9:32 AM on November 20, 2018
And I'm not aware they even have a women's division, but I've been meaning to look into NJPW for a while as almost everything I'm hearing out of it is good.
Japan has a much stronger tradition of women's wrestling (joshi), but they very rarely mix genders. I think only DDT (think Chikara, but even wilder) currently has both men and women in the same company.
posted by Etrigan at 2:26 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
Japan has a much stronger tradition of women's wrestling (joshi), but they very rarely mix genders. I think only DDT (think Chikara, but even wilder) currently has both men and women in the same company.
posted by Etrigan at 2:26 PM on November 20, 2018 [1 favorite]
The love of The Miz is more about the fact that, yeah, he started off as a reality tv sideshow, but instead of coasting, he’s put in absolute work, and become a legitimate wrestler, both in the ring and on the mic. He has absolutely mastered the art of the heel, and his confrontation with Bryan on Talking Smack where he pointed out that, side, he wrestles a safer style, but that’s why he was still there, night in and night out, wrestling while Bryan was constantly injured and at the time retired probably played a significant role (definitely a non-zero factor) in Bryan being back in the ring now. The Miz has come a hell of a long way, to the point that you could comfortably call him one of the better heels wwe has ever had.
While Nikki Bella has definitely improved, Brie is, as mentioned above, still a danger to herself and others, probably moreso than anyone else on the roster. Add to that the idea that the “Women’s Revolution” (TM) was essentially the wrestlers who could actually go in the ring (Paige, AJ Lee, and others) pushing to get away from embarrassing boyfriend/jealousy stories, demeaning matches, and the “divas” name in general (which the Bellas, along with Eva Marie, among others), but that the WWE seems hellbent on claiming that Brie and Nikki were in fact, the ones who climbed Mount Wrestlegood and started the women’s division by themselves, and yeah, some people aren’t crazy about them. They literally represent the what Becky Lynch, Sasha Banks, Bayley, Charlotte, and all the rest have had to overcome, yet WWE tries to rewrite history and claim they were the progenitors.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:21 AM on November 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
While Nikki Bella has definitely improved, Brie is, as mentioned above, still a danger to herself and others, probably moreso than anyone else on the roster. Add to that the idea that the “Women’s Revolution” (TM) was essentially the wrestlers who could actually go in the ring (Paige, AJ Lee, and others) pushing to get away from embarrassing boyfriend/jealousy stories, demeaning matches, and the “divas” name in general (which the Bellas, along with Eva Marie, among others), but that the WWE seems hellbent on claiming that Brie and Nikki were in fact, the ones who climbed Mount Wrestlegood and started the women’s division by themselves, and yeah, some people aren’t crazy about them. They literally represent the what Becky Lynch, Sasha Banks, Bayley, Charlotte, and all the rest have had to overcome, yet WWE tries to rewrite history and claim they were the progenitors.
posted by Ghidorah at 2:21 AM on November 21, 2018 [3 favorites]
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Did they try to do a double-meta-twist by taking the plot of GLOW?
posted by bleep at 7:18 PM on November 17, 2018 [3 favorites]