Where's the line between bullying and just being "a jerk"?
February 1, 2019 8:01 PM   Subscribe

This post was deleted for the following reason: Sorry, doesn't seem like this is landing well -- Eyebrows McGee



 
I feel like the definition really needs to include some kind of power imbalance, otherwise it's not bullying...it's various other kinds of shitty behaviour that also needs to be dealt with. Note I did not say and will never say "just" when making that comparison. Bad behaviour that's not bullying is not de facto "less than" in terms of concern and the kids facing it should not be any less of concern to us. However words need to have definitions and stretching them to the point where there's no uniqueness to what they describe just makes them meaningless and ultimately makes it harder for us to communicate and solve problems.
posted by trackofalljades at 8:16 PM on February 1, 2019


Well I don't know what bullying is in any technical sense but I know what it felt as a child and, frankly, I am sure it still affects me: The idea that I am and will always be vulnerable to the whims of others who will have the upper hand over me, one way or the other.
posted by sjswitzer at 8:19 PM on February 1, 2019 [3 favorites]


“When we fail to distinguish between X and ordinary Y, we trivialize the very serious cases of X,” some person wrote in an article in a low-standards rag, again, about something else this time. Is it food allergies? LGBTQIAA rights? Anxiety disorders? Poverty among the employed?

In my life I've seen bullying dismissed as being "no big deal" roughly 500 times as often as the accusation's ever been overused. Maybe this article is writing about very different people with very different experiences. I'm being charitable.
posted by traveler_ at 8:20 PM on February 1, 2019 [5 favorites]


The distinction makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

But phrases like "stunting their emotional maturity" have started to set off alarms in my head because they are so often used to justify tropes about fragile younger generations and the need for 'tough love' and 'preparing them for the real world'.

It's not that I don't think the world is actually a shitty place and that people need ways to deal with it. It's more that I don't think that's a good excuse not to do anything about shitty behavior.

Or on preview, what traveler_ said.
posted by ropeladder at 8:24 PM on February 1, 2019


Yeah this article is trash. Bullying versus "meanness?" it all made me want to kill myself as a elementary school age and middle school age child, but hey! maybe the kids who ostracized me to the point of me considering myself totally unlovable were just being "jerks" and my parents reaction in pulling me from one terrible school and putting me in another was just "overreaction." Guess the fact that I have diagnosed PTSD from my school experiences is just me and my multiple therapists mislabeling stuff. I mean, I couldn't possibly still have trouble making friends and socializing to the point where I didn't leave my house between the ages of 18-20 because after all some of those "bully's" might just have been "jerks"!
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:26 PM on February 1, 2019 [2 favorites]


Well, their definition includes a power imbalance in TFA but I think the imbalance can simply be "willing to be nasty."

Mostly I read this article glad I'm not a parent. At the start I was wondering what it matters if nastiness is called bullying or not, but arguably the parents in question hear bullying is horrible and think to be good parents they *have* to do something . So telling them it's not is useful. (Alternative hypotheses: They are themselves bullies.)

The whole "emotionally stunted" analysis rubbed me the wrong way as well though, as the two anecdotes in question were convenient for the article but not necessarily pivotal life experiences determining future development.
posted by mark k at 8:31 PM on February 1, 2019


Ahhhh good someone found a way to extend the "it's worse to be called a racist than be a racist" rule to all races.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:35 PM on February 1, 2019 [1 favorite]


"One of my children was being subjected to sarcastic and cutting remarks from a co-worker"

This not bullying; it is something much much worse.
posted by sjswitzer at 8:38 PM on February 1, 2019


I'm sorry, but this seems to be an article by someone's whose child (who was probably a bully) was accused of being a bully. Why does this seem like a microcosm of our world?
posted by sjswitzer at 8:42 PM on February 1, 2019 [1 favorite]


"Bullying" is like "fake news," where there's value in the phrase but it quickly becomes diluted by overuse, sometimes through intentionally disingenuous overuse.

The most pointed example that I've seen is when fringe Christianists refer to mainstream recognition of LGBT civil rights as "bullying," in line with their ostensible claim of religious liberty to defend their privilege. Without thinking clearly about what actually constitutes bullying, it's ripe for misuse.

Because of that, I do wish that the people complaining about the article would have actually fucking read it, because then we could talk about what's in it instead of calling it "trash."
posted by klangklangston at 8:44 PM on February 1, 2019


The author keeps identifying situations that seem exactly like power imbalances to me. It feels like she has an emotional investment, here, in preserving some kinds of inequality between children as right and good. Certain "popular" kids should enjoy higher social status than other kids. Kids who show inappropriate levels of interest should be subject to social stigma for it. Because what other way is she identifying for the girl who was too excited about her interest to stop getting picked on--she doesn't want her treated as powerless to change the situation, so what option does this kid have to change? Well, she can try harder to fit in. These kids who were getting lower social status kept feeling worse and worse as time went on--why weren't they trying harder to be normal?

I can't figure out what else she thinks the kid who's being picked on or left out has in the way of options to equalize these social situations. So she sets up this idea that we shouldn't take away their agency, but she picks examples where I don't exactly see straightforward ways that these kids were supposed to improve the situation without falling back on "just be like everybody else".
posted by Sequence at 8:45 PM on February 1, 2019 [1 favorite]


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