No matter what John Oliver says.

February 17, 2019 6:00 PM

5 years in, HBO’s Last Week Tonight is a lot more than “just comedy”
posted by ZeusHumms (38 comments total)

Five years! Dang, that’s a long time.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:51 PM on February 17, 2019 [2 favorites]

I, too, was startled that it's been five years. The POTUS45 time distortion effect is strong.
posted by salt grass at 6:58 PM on February 17, 2019 [14 favorites]

All of my news-comedy people serve their own purpose in keeping me sane. Trevor Noah, Samantha Bee, John Oliver, Bill Maher... they're all different and they all help me remember that it's okay to be screaming into the canyon in frustration at how the world is right now.

No, wait, I mean, they all help me laugh at the situation of the world.

Yeah, that's it.
posted by hippybear at 7:03 PM on February 17, 2019 [4 favorites]

I'd be interested to hear what "journalistic responsibilities" Stewart might have been allegedly "absolving himself" of. If claiming the show was just comedy allowed him (or any other hosts of similar shows) to intersperse a lot of excellent factual reporting with silly jokes, I'm perfectly okay with that and I don't think it diminishes either journalism or comedy.
posted by Greg_Ace at 7:09 PM on February 17, 2019 [7 favorites]

They’re not just watching people deliver monologues or weak parodies or easy potshots at the headlines, à la the current incarnation of Saturday Night Live.

And there might be a reason this is so appealing,

Well there MIGHT be a reason but I can't imagine why something other than weak parodies or easy potshots or snarky monologues might be appealing but I couldn't tell you what it is. I love that shit.

No I'm just kidding I hate those things. I don't actually think Last Week Tonight is comedy at all. It's just a political podcast on video and the host sneaks in snarky asides sometimes.
posted by bleep at 7:12 PM on February 17, 2019 [8 favorites]

Also "Don't hold me to any standards, I'm a comedian" was Jon Stewart's thing and John Oliver just adopted it because it worked.
posted by bleep at 7:13 PM on February 17, 2019 [1 favorite]

Also "Don't hold me to any standards, I'm a comedian" was Jon Stewart's thing

Right up until the day when he went on Crossfire and shut that shit down. At that point, he didn't have that anymore.
posted by hippybear at 7:16 PM on February 17, 2019 [5 favorites]

Also “Don't hold me to any standards, I’m a comedian” was Jon Stewart’s thing

Right up until the day when he went on Crossfire and shut that shit down. At that point, he didn't have that anymore.

I, uh, 100% disagree with this? That seemed kind of the schtick all the way until he left the show. Maybe it still is, with Trevor.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:20 PM on February 17, 2019 [2 favorites]

I still can't watch Trevor Noah after seeing that vid of his racist stand-up, which sucks a bit.

Hanging out for more Last Week Tonight and Mad As Hell though.
posted by pompomtom at 7:27 PM on February 17, 2019 [1 favorite]

I still can't watch Trevor Noah after seeing that vid of his racist stand-up

In case anyone else is wondering, as I was, what this is in reference to:

Trevor Noah responds to boycott calls over racist joke about Aboriginal women [The Guardian - July 23rd 2018]
posted by Secret Sparrow at 7:53 PM on February 17, 2019

No ally is pure enough.
posted by hippybear at 7:58 PM on February 17, 2019 [22 favorites]

This is probably as good a time as ever to mention one of my favorite Mefi FPPs ever, a deep dive into the British comedy that influenced a young John Oliver in his formative years. It's a good reminder that a number of comedy ancestors are to be thanked for paving the road for today's talent. Fair warning: I lost untold hours falling down a rabbit hole of archival video brilliance.
posted by vverse23 at 8:03 PM on February 17, 2019 [9 favorites]

One of Oliver's previous projects, the Bugle podcast, is still going strong. Andy Zaltzman has a rotating cast of co-hosts, including Nish Kumar, Anuvab Pal, and the incredibly talented Alice Frasier.

I know Oliver's HBO show is good, but I don't think anything can top the moment on the Bugle when he covered Silvio Berlusconi being hit in the face by a model church.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 8:04 PM on February 17, 2019 [16 favorites]

Andy Zaltzman's sister Helen, Incidentally, has a decent humorous and sometimes political podcast on language called The Allusionist.
posted by Going To Maine at 8:06 PM on February 17, 2019 [7 favorites]

The whole 'just an entertainer' thing has long seemed a bit dark for me, because that's EXACTLY what Rush Limbaugh always used to say (and what Alex Jones says now). Now, John Stewart did one better by constantly referring to his show as a fake news (back before that term was repurposed for internet age, then driven into meaninglessness by the press, and then corpse-dragged behind the presidential motorcade. And, of course, John Stewart was a brilliant social commentator rather than a conspiracy-minded hate monger, so that was cool, too.

But for a while in my college years, I was convinced that maybe Rush Limbaugh was an ok guy I just disagreed with, as opposed to Bill O'Reilly or Lou Dobbs, both of whom actually claimed to be journalists. I was, uh...I was wrong.
posted by es_de_bah at 8:20 PM on February 17, 2019 [8 favorites]

Don t forget Hasan Minhaj! Banned by the House of Saud!
posted by eustatic at 8:28 PM on February 17, 2019 [4 favorites]

Even during the height of the Stalinist purges, when you could be disappeared for any or no reason, people circulated joke books about Stalin ... it was the only way they could think of to keep their sanity.

Asked if comedy and satire is even more important in times of political darkness, [Michael] Palin responds: "Absolutely, because comedy is very difficult to close down.

"You can take it off TV, or you can say 'you shouldn't do this', but it's always going to be there somewhere, we always want something to laugh at.

"And very often the darkest times, that's when you need laughter the most, and that's where some of the best humour comes from."

"When Stalin was slaughtering everyone around him, and people lived in absolute terror of looking in the wrong direction and having an entire family wiped out, they circulated joke books about Stalin," affirms Isaacs.

"It was the only way they could keep their sanity."

And Trump just bleated something about investigating SNL, to seek 'retribution'. To be clear, he doesn't want an investigation, he just wants retribution. But I think an investigation could be fun! We'll get all the top comedians to testify to congress with all the c-span cameras on.

'Mr Oliver, can you explain why you think President Trump is funny? Please, take all the time you need in your answer'.

I'll note that there's no right wing equivalent of LWT or TDS. I think fox news tried the format once and it was a predictable flop. They do fear, that's their trick. They do fear and we do comedy.
posted by adept256 at 8:36 PM on February 17, 2019 [17 favorites]

I'll just add that the investigative reporting on LWT is a real stand-out. The half-hour flappy mouth shows on the 24 hour networks probably just can't afford it. They have a lot time to fill and the budget must get stretched thin. Opinions are quick and cheap, actual research and investigation is time consuming and expensive. In other words, LWT is like a Sunday roast made with love, and cable news is McDonalds.
posted by adept256 at 8:45 PM on February 17, 2019 [7 favorites]

I want to know if Janice still works in accounting.
posted by guiseroom at 9:20 PM on February 17, 2019 [3 favorites]

adept256, I feel like I remember a lot more half hour special reports on the networks when I was a kid. I can't speak to their quality (even having watched them. My folks sat me down in front of a few, but I was young and uninterested). Does anyone still do these? Do they only come up while fear-mongering? I mean, I guess there's 60 minutes and occasionally Rachel Maddow does really good historical context work. Who else?
posted by es_de_bah at 9:38 PM on February 17, 2019

There is so much I don't know where to begin! I just know that you won't see it on fox news who are happy just to serve cheeseburgers because cooking is too much fucking work. The fact that they're out performed by Comedy Central in this area just belies the fact that fox doesn't give a fuck about journalism because that's not their job.
posted by adept256 at 9:57 PM on February 17, 2019 [1 favorite]

fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit: One of Oliver's previous projects, the Bugle podcast, is still going strong. Andy Zaltzman has a rotating cast of co-hosts, including Nish Kumar, Anuvab Pal, and the incredibly talented Alice Frasier.

I know Oliver's HBO show is good, but I don't think anything can top the moment on the Bugle when he covered Silvio Berlusconi being hit in the face by a model church.

That episode hooked me on The Bugle permanently. Hearing them riff on the words, "Silvio Berlusconi was smashed in the face with a miniature replica of the Milan cathedral" is still funny as hell to this day.

Looking around, I see that there's a reddit thread here that might yield a link to said episode.

Berlusconi starts at 5:45 or so, and it's great riffing.

The actual incident, as reported by CNN.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 1:32 AM on February 18, 2019 [4 favorites]

I would like Mr. Oliver to add “fuck-you-logies” to his television program, because they were great on “The Bugle.”
posted by wenestvedt at 3:30 AM on February 18, 2019 [3 favorites]

He'll always be Johnny Showbiz to me :-)
posted by Pendragon at 3:40 AM on February 18, 2019 [1 favorite]

I can't believe it slipped my mind: the inestimable Daniel O'Brien got hired as a staff writer for LWT over the winter break, which is such a good fit it's mind boggling. I keep meaning to put together a post about where the various ex-Cracked AV folks ended up, but so far this is the only case that seems like more than a lateral move.
posted by es_de_bah at 7:36 AM on February 18, 2019 [3 favorites]

That episode hooked me on The Bugle permanently. Hearing them riff on the words, "Silvio Berlusconi was smashed in the face with a miniature replica of the Milan cathedral" is still funny as hell to this day.

I regularly listen to podcasts whilst doing household chores, and I think it's time to start a full re-listen of The Bugle, as the Oliver/Zaltzman period is one of the most reliably enjoyable podcasts I've listened to. The inaugural Fuckeulogy (censored version, unfortunately) was a moment of absolute brilliance, and for some reason I have almost ridiculously fond memories of Oliver's bit about Stephan Feck ("Oh Feck!") at the 2012 Olympics.

(I dropped away from the podcast once Oliver left, as the two seemed to balance each other almost perfectly, and a double-barrelled earful of undiluted Andy Zaltzman was a bit much for me. If he's got a good guest/support list perhaps it's time to revisit.)

LWT is hugely enjoyable, not just for the deep dives and snark, but also because it seems to be the perfect delivery system for Oliver's style of humour. I remember seeing him early in his career on things like Mock the Week and while his bits were often good, they didn't really fit the rhythm of the show.

In conclusion: Fuck you, Chris!
posted by myotahapea at 10:30 AM on February 18, 2019 [2 favorites]

(I dropped away from the podcast once Oliver left, as the two seemed to balance each other almost perfectly, and a double-barrelled earful of undiluted Andy Zaltzman was a bit much for me. If he's got a good guest/support list perhaps it's time to revisit.)

It definitely took him a while to find his footing after Oliver left, but I can say the addition of co-hosts was a wise decision, and I'm finding it consistently enjoyable these days for that reason.

If you want to check out a recent episode I'd suggest Bugle 4094, with both Nish Kumar and Alice Fraser co-hosting, so it's a good mix.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:03 AM on February 18, 2019 [5 favorites]

The whole ‘just an entertainer’ thing has long seemed a bit dark for me, because that’s EXACTLY what Rush Limbaugh always used to say (and what Alex Jones says now).

I'll note that there’s no right wing equivalent of LWT or TDS. I think fox news tried the format once and it was a predictable flop. They do fear, that’s their trick. They do fear and we do comedy.

There’s this pervasive meme on the left that the right just can’t do “comedy”; I see it on Twitter like every five minutes, with someone linking to some horrible right wing Dad joke or one of the more inane headlines from The Babylon Bee. It’s sort of true, because it doesn’t do satire that appeals to the left, or that has yet worked on broadcast TV; The Daily Show and its many offspring have succeeded, while specific right wing variants have failed. Yet what this seems to often do is conflate “things that people find funny” with “satirical news segments”, and to conflate a particular vacuum in the media ecosystem with a proof. Limbaugh, for instance, is such an entertainment: it has parody songs, it ran that “joke but not really” subversive campaign back in 2008 to have Republicans vote for Clinton in open democratic primaries. And it’s spawned a thousand imitators and children. (Remember Mike Pence’s old radio description: “Limbaugh on Decaf”.) When I’ve read through National Review op-eds I usually see a number of fairly acerbic jabs, and you can generally find some highly retweeted joking about politics on a right-wing pundit’s Twitter feed. Jesse Watters’s career has continued just fine after the anti-asian racism thing in 2016; he still gets to do banter on The Five. The Daily Stormer, The Proud Boys, and their ilk all seem quite awful but in reading the reporting about them I’ve always been given a sense that they’ve maintained a certain acid sense of humor the whole time.

The Daily Show bent left because of its time and place, and consequently all of its offspring have had a certain left bent. There’s no reason that under some future (left) administration, some right-leaning satirical news won’t show up and generate a few dozen spin-offs.
posted by Going To Maine at 1:46 PM on February 18, 2019 [3 favorites]

Regarding journalism vs comedy... I'm pretty firm that John Stewart was not a journalist; just as he himself claims. This is true with Samantha Fox and most others within the genre. Yes, he's involved himself in the public debate at times, and has thus played the roll of an advocate; but that would make him more of an activist for improving media than a journalist.

But John Oliver has a 'research team', which very closely resembles investigative journalism. He creates new information through investigation - journalism if I've ever seen it.

Rush Limbaugh is sort of the opposite of John Stewart, he pretends to be a journalist, but is merely a pundit (and then he will claim he's an entertainer when he gets caught repeating or making up ridiculous bullshit).

CNN, MSNBC, and FOX News are 75% not journalism; having talking heads scream at a each other or people 'analyzing' the news isn't journalism. FOX likes to jump on this when they are called out on their bullshit (ie: fabrication) by their pundits - 'oh, that's not news, that's analysis'. But players other than FOX news are also not engaging in journalism when they have 3-5 people argue about the tiny tidbit of news that the channel has reported on.

Journalism is certainly more expensive than punditry, but more than that, it's entirely possible that people find folks yelling at each other on TV more compelling than they do taking in new information (you know, *news*); so punditry is more profitable than news is... And then our 'news' channels become largely punditry channels.

One could argue that John Oliver isn't a journalist in so much that he doesn't do the research that his team engages in. That's a fair analysis, IMHO, and would make it clear why he doesn't consider himself a journalist. He is very clear that if his show isn't *funny*, he has no show, and personally dedicates himself to ensuring his show is funny. But intermingled in that funny is actual, real journalism.

That journalism has a point of view as well; which I welcome. Pretending to be 'unbiased' leads to things like covering 'each side' as if they were of equal value, and has contributed to the dumpster fire of the modern news industry. But it's worth noting that the 'objective' fiction that North American media likes to engage in isn't a norm around the world - the UK (and other countries) media is pretty upfront that their newspapers have a distinct perspective on the world. That doesn't absolve them from journalistic ethics, they still need to tell the truth, vet sources, etc, etc.

The Daily show used to have a tagline of something like "More people get their news from us... Than should', but I think that's a direct reflection of the disgust that more and more people have for what the 24 hour news channels produce.
posted by el io at 1:56 PM on February 18, 2019 [10 favorites]

This is true with Samantha Fox and most others within the genre.

Funny girls need love too
posted by ActingTheGoat at 3:30 PM on February 18, 2019 [1 favorite]

Samantha Fox was an 80s page 3 model. I'm sure they meant Samantha Bee. More female hosts please, and give Sam another Emmy.
posted by adept256 at 3:55 PM on February 18, 2019 [6 favorites]

The Daily Stormer, The Proud Boys, and their ilk all seem quite awful but in reading the reporting about them I’ve always been given a sense that they’ve maintained a certain acid sense of humor the whole time.

Uh this is something that the far right does in the interests of plausible deniability ("we're just trolling why are you so humorless lol") as a cover for their toxic ideas, not sincere attempts at "comedy", as per the Daily Stormer's own style guide, as one example.

Point being if we're to compare right wing and left wing comedy, whatever their merits and flaws, the far right distinguishes itself in being dishonest about their motives and sincerity. The purpose isn't to get a laugh while sharing ideas; it's to provide cover that they don't really believe these ideas at all-their critics are just too snowflakey to handle the edge.
posted by Aya Hirano on the Astral Plane at 6:09 PM on February 18, 2019 [5 favorites]

The purpose isn't to get a laugh while sharing ideas; it's to provide cover that they don't really believe these ideas at all-their critics are just too snowflakey to handle the edge.

So I kind of disagree with this? That is: my larger point was that the right wing tells a lot of jokes and laughs about them, and that those jokes are about right wing ideas and are considered funny by right wing folks. It’s true that The Daily Stormer is a hard edge of that, and that the leaked style guide for the pub did argue using humor as a cover. But… they were still telling jokes that they considered to be funny, and would laugh at. And, indeed, they were joking for some cover, but were still using those jokes to convey ideas and ideological heft. And that’s the nut of my point.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:23 PM on February 18, 2019

el io: "Journalism is certainly more expensive than punditry, but more than that, it's entirely possible that people find folks yelling at each other on TV more compelling than they do taking in new information (you know, *news*); so punditry is more profitable than news is... And then our 'news' channels become largely punditry channels."

Not sure if it's all people prefer or just people willing to tolerate a barrage of repetitive advertising prefer it. It's annoying though that any modern show nominally about building something quickly devolves into the actors spending 3/4s or more of their time in interpersonal drama.
posted by Mitheral at 6:57 PM on February 18, 2019

I do agree that John Oliver does do a lot of investigation over just "synthesis" from what other outlets publish.

What I'm really curious about is why/ how HBO is willing to fund him and his team - Oliver is very good at what he does, but it's like the Mother Jones of comedy-news. Does HBO keep funding him (and refrain from censoring him) because its profitable or because someone who controls HBO purse-strings think this is cool?

For me, it's really the combination of being well-funded to do investigations and synthesis, Oliver being super funny and self-deprecating and very very smart that makes me go the extra step to watch the show. I don't end up watching Trevor Noah because Comedy Central has region blocks, but I watch 'The Daily Show', 'The Late Show,' and "Full Frontal" religiously because it's available on YouTube the next day - for free.
posted by porpoise at 7:46 PM on February 18, 2019 [2 favorites]

"Does HBO keep funding him (and refrain from censoring him) because its profitable or because someone who controls HBO purse-strings think this is cool?"

I would imagine they fund him because he makes them money. I imagine they refrain from censoring him because he demands it in order to stay with them (and keep making them money). That demand may be built into his contract (although he certainly has lawyers involved with the show to help him avoid liability, as any news organization does).
posted by el io at 8:20 PM on February 18, 2019 [2 favorites]

Samantha Fox was an 80s page 3 model

She was (and still is) a singer
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:21 PM on February 18, 2019 [1 favorite]

The real world stunts that Oliver has done have reminded me of Michael Moore back in his television days. He works on a different level from Moore most of the time, but with those other things, he's straight up TV Nation.
posted by hippybear at 12:19 AM on February 19, 2019 [1 favorite]