June 21, 2002

1:37 AM

England blew it.Enlgand got off to a 1-0 lead before it was tied by Brazil. Even after Brazil was a man down they managed to score a goal and hold the lead for a victory. I really thought England was going to go all the way.
posted by suprfli (29 comments total)

Sometimes, supporting England can be a very painful thing.
posted by stuporJIX at 1:41 AM on June 21, 2002

Painful indeed (a brit writes.)

Brazil deserved their win, but - to reply to suprfli - did not score with only ten men. Ronaldinho was both the man sent off (somewhat unfairly) and the scorer of the second goal.
posted by pascal at 1:49 AM on June 21, 2002

*cries*

The oppressor is finished.
posted by Succa at 1:59 AM on June 21, 2002

Painful indeed (a brit writes.)

Brazil deserved their win, but - to reply to suprfli - did not score with only ten men. Ronaldinho was both the man sent off (somewhat unfairly) and the scorer of the second goal.
posted by pascal at 2:06 AM on June 21, 2002

Sometimes,

sometimes? =.(
blew it, yep.
posted by elle at 2:07 AM on June 21, 2002

It made me remember the loss to Germany at Wembley in the qualifying. Just a complete lack of heart. It's as if they just preferred to go home. I thought for sure after Owen's goal they'd run with it.

Typical.

Predictions for Euro 2004 anyone?
posted by dopamine at 2:09 AM on June 21, 2002

I only caught the 2nd half of the game, but Brazil seemed like they were just toying with England.

Dance fools, dance!

Less than two hours to the US-Germany game, that should be fun.
posted by Darke at 2:15 AM on June 21, 2002

Gutted folks. England could & should have done better - in the second half especially, the final ball was just not good enough. They looked as though they didn't believe they could do it after they went behind.
posted by kebab at 2:39 AM on June 21, 2002

The entire English public (including me) judged Brazil on their previous performances and never considered that they may raise their game (or us lower ours). We were poor, they were frightening at times.

If the US don't beat Germany then summer's ended on the day it begins! Roll-on Euro 2004 - No Brazillians there!
posted by niceness at 2:39 AM on June 21, 2002

Such is life. As a Coventry City supporter I've learned to deal with the football slings & arrows.

C'mon, if any England fan had been offered a WC quarter final defeat by Brazil by the odd goal as Howard Wilkinson led the team off in Helsinki they'd have chomped up to the shoulder!

Look at the players that walked off today. With the exception of Seaman & Sheringham, those players will be a better, more experienced team at Euro04 & WC06.

And I'd happily take the loss today if we can go on & beat the Germans in their own backyard! With added Joe Cole & Stephen Gerrard too.

No need to get out the hair shirts. I'm proud of what we've done. And as a dedicated footie fan I can have a little smile at all the part-timers who have become insta-authorities on England and who are now having trouble dealing with defeat ;-) [Not aimed at anyone here BTW...I'm listening to a few whiners on Radio 5]

Now c'mon USA!
posted by i_cola at 2:52 AM on June 21, 2002

Hey, look at the astounding progress England has made in the last two years. It's not fair to judge this young, newly-managed team in the abstract. They did very, very well. They'll be fearsome come 2004 if you can keep your heads about you(do the whole Kipling thing)and not go into your usual, suicidal fits of negativity, self-pity and reckless revisionism.

Keep this team and this manager on an even keel - wanting to win the World Cup was a necessary and useful madness. But madness it was and to be disappointed not to win it is just self-defeating.

Congratulations all round are in order. Yeah, it's easy for someone who wanted Brazil to win to say this, but remember I wanted Portugal to win the World Cup!

That's where the Euro 2004 will be played and that's what matters now. It'll be great. And real football; none of this unpredictable, exotic, funny stuff! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:18 AM on June 21, 2002

Miguel, Euro 2004 will be interesting - following their perfomances in the last two championships, if Portugal don't win at home they may stab the referee
; )
posted by niceness at 3:26 AM on June 21, 2002

But Scotland will be there in 2004 Miguel! ;-)
posted by kebab at 3:28 AM on June 21, 2002

Prior to the England game I wanted Germany to win for a Germany - England final.

USA! USA! USA! USA!
posted by vbfg at 3:41 AM on June 21, 2002

wanting to win the World Cup was a necessary and useful madness

Indeed. And what a perfect way of putting it Miguel. I'll be using that phrase over the coming days no doubt...
posted by i_cola at 6:24 AM on June 21, 2002

So far I've restrained myself from paying attention to the daily soccer updates as I've no genuine interest in them, but I would like to ask: Is it strictly necessary to post the results of each game to MetaFilter?

I'm merely questioning what seems to be the prevailing wisdom.
posted by majick at 6:26 AM on June 21, 2002

majick, every game result was posted? I must’ve missed the 48 threads about the first round.

Yea, hey England what the hell happened? 10 on 11 you couldn’t score? I’ll tell ya what it looked like—England wasn’t ready to play a set offense. Just like the US only being able to score on breaks and crosses. England just wasn’t able to adjust from rock solid D to being a man up and having possesion for most the game.
posted by raaka at 6:50 AM on June 21, 2002

i set my alarm clock for once, went to sleep early, ...and then slept through it :(

cool nutmeg by donovan tho :) but how come beasley didn't play, height/weight advantage? i will endeavour to watch tonite!

also i just found these message boards :D ruX0rz!
posted by kliuless at 6:52 AM on June 21, 2002

More from Kipling on the World Cup:

"But today I leave the galley. Shall I curse her service then?
God be thanked! Whate'er comes after, I have lived and toiled with men!"
posted by stuporJIX at 7:12 AM on June 21, 2002

Before the Wcup ends and I don't get a chance to reply to those who "*cough* sportsfilter *cough*" and whine about another footbal thread.

It is still METAfilter isn't it.
posted by fullerine at 7:40 AM on June 21, 2002

It's amazing that you guys all appreciate what Brazil accomplishes as a team, when I compare your reactions to the treatment our national team (and specially, the coach) receives from our own press.

There's a huge amount of so-called sports journalists that have been beating the pulp out of our national teams since 1990. They've made a living of it and it is saddening that they can lead many to their empty bitching and trolling.

People that got stuck into the 1970 World Cup, when we all played a different football, offensive, paced, beautiful. Now, they keep insisting that we should get back to that football, disregarding all the differences between the way the game was played 30 years ago and the way it's been played now.

They say that when we try to play like europeans, we suck. That when we try to care about defense, we suck. That when we try to be objective, we suck. Well, I cannot understand someone willing to sacrifice the result for a beautiful juggling with the ball. I cannot accept a player like Denílson, who I think is not objective enough and more concerned with his skills (that, by the way, were easily voided by the chinese players).

And I think that what Ronaldinho Gaúcho did today was to prove that we can still have objectiveness and beauty in the same play. He managed to overcome the English player with a beautiful movement and still he was objective to pass the ball to Rivaldo, who scored with class. And about his own goal, he told the press that Cafu once played against Arsenal and noticed that Seaman had the habit to go forward and could be beat by a long ball like that.

In a way, it was our best game up till now. We use to grow when the adversary is better, so it's no surprise at all. England was the most serious adversary up till now, so we've played our best.

I do hope that we get to the final match. It will be the third time in a row and it has to deliver some powerful message to all the 'widows' of the 'art-football from 1970'.
posted by rexgregbr at 7:42 AM on June 21, 2002

Great post, rex, and congratulations. It was sad for me to watch England lose, but the better team won. The refereeing was a bit dodgy though, wasn't it? Ronaldinho should not have been sent off, and Beckham should have been awarded a penalty.

Man, it's so easier to accept a loss like this than to go out on penalties.
posted by SiW at 8:46 AM on June 21, 2002

I'm not asking the same Q as majick - but i hope that in the future, maybe keep the score inside the link?
Too often have i stumbled past MeFi during this cup final and viewed scores of games that have yet to be shown on my TV channel - games I want to watch! ack! I'm getting pretty good at hitting browser close now, and I very much appreciate those who only hint at the score in the FPP and let the late comers like me, watch the game first without it spoiled.
over here it's quite funny,on Swedish television, since some channels show the game later, they will read the score out on say the sports news, but with the warning "those who want to watch the game may mute now".
posted by dabitch at 9:57 AM on June 21, 2002

i hope that in the future, maybe keep the score inside the link

point taken about keeping the score inside the post.

also, i don't think i need to justify this post but this game was one of only 8 teams left in a tournament that only happens once every 4 years. entire countries and millions of people were following this game and these teams. i think that qualifies for a FPP.

the other thing i wanted to mention that i didn't include in my initial post is that i think it's great that england got so far. what bummed me out so much about this game is that the last 25 minutes of the game brazil OWNED england. they had 10 men and passed and moved the ball like they were toying w/england. england was punting the ball out of bounds, making poor passes and bad mistakes. they were running around like they were the team that was a man down and IMO they didn't look like they were trying their hardest and almost accepted defeat. after the second goal and they were a man up i expected to see England playing like a team possesed w/everything on the line balls to wall. i kept thinking ot myself that england was saving it's strength for another half.

i felt like i was watching an england team that had given up w/25 minutes left in the game and that was sad.
posted by suprfli at 10:35 AM on June 21, 2002

If you ask me, the red card hurt both teams, in a way. It was such a strange choice by the referee, especially at that moment in the game, just after Ronaldihno's goal... and it took him forever to leave the pitch. The momentum was completely gone and England only looked worse after that moment. It was a terrible call and seem to really throw the game into a strange funk.

That's just my opinion, I wasn't in the stadium or anything. I could be way off, but that's how it felt.
posted by cell divide at 10:54 AM on June 21, 2002

So, does this mean it's over?
posted by kindall at 11:50 AM on June 21, 2002

What do you care??
posted by niceness at 12:16 PM on June 21, 2002

About the red card: the play, when we scrutinize it by itself, is worthy of a red card, since Ronaldinho seemed to raise his foot a bit further than he should and that could have injured Mills seriously. But if you consider that it was probably the first card in the whole game (I'm quite sure of it) and that it was kind of obvious that he was just trying to protect himself, I think that a yellow card would be enough.

I've seen Ronaldinho do this before and for the same reason (he used to play for Grêmio, my favorite team): a player with his skills more than often ends up being hunted in the field by many, many not-so-talented adversaries. It was pure reflex.

About the penalty that Beckham suffered, I sincerely can't make my mind about it, since they've replayed it only once. I think it might as well be a penalty, but I've noticed that he uses to dodge every other play, trying to be awarded a foul and this might have worked against him. On the other hand, if he was faking it, it might as well get him a yellow card.

Finally, the referee choices during the whole competition seem to be a bit twisted, to say the least. I mean, we're on quarter finals and they are appointing referees from Canada, that has no football tradition whatsoever (nothing against the country, but I think that when you advance to the killer games, they should go with referees from countries where there is a strong practice of professional football). In this game, the main referee was from Mexico (which qualifies as a traditional football country), but the assistants were from countries that hardly know football. There was a bizarre play where the sideline referee raised his flag to indicate that a player wanted to enter field and the main referee called an offside play because the flag was raised).

anyway, it was a great game and only a match like that could keep me in the state I was, my heart jumping with joy everytime we got closer to the English goal and jumping with fear everytime the English team was doing the same with our goal. A match worthy of a final game.

On a lighter (at least I'll try to keep it lighter) remark, it must have been a tough game for the Argentineans: they just couldn't pick a team to root for.
posted by rexgregbr at 12:19 PM on June 21, 2002

party at miguel's?...
posted by goneill at 5:19 PM on June 21, 2002