A win-win for pie crusts and purses
April 21, 2019 10:34 AM Subscribe
I wish they'd tested Costco's house brand because it's been our mainstay for a while now. I mean, I don't think I'd change it up even if Costco scored badly, but I'm curious to see how it compares and I'm too lazy to do the comparing myself.
posted by ardgedee at 10:42 AM on April 21, 2019
posted by ardgedee at 10:42 AM on April 21, 2019
Everyone else says something tastes like butter, and one person says it tastes like fish. I don’t know what to do with that data but it makes me want to see everything s/he rated.
posted by greermahoney at 10:47 AM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by greermahoney at 10:47 AM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I thought the best butter for baking a pie crust was lard?
posted by Nelson at 10:54 AM on April 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 10:54 AM on April 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
Is it good for pocket watches, though?
posted by Wolfdog at 10:54 AM on April 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 10:54 AM on April 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
I'm interested because I just watched the "Fat" episode of Samin Nosrat's Netflix show, and because I typically use Land O’ Lakes. Sometimes I buy Cabot instead. I've never noticed any difference. There's definitely a difference with homemade butter, which is simple enough to do—and I'll make butter before I go anywhere near a Trader Joe's.
The Land O’ Lakes package was recently redesigned. There was a funny trick you could do with the old package, that you can't do anymore. I don't know the impetus for the switch, but I was very surprised they didn't eliminate "Mia" altogether. It seems like a social-media headache waiting to happen.
posted by cribcage at 11:02 AM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
The Land O’ Lakes package was recently redesigned. There was a funny trick you could do with the old package, that you can't do anymore. I don't know the impetus for the switch, but I was very surprised they didn't eliminate "Mia" altogether. It seems like a social-media headache waiting to happen.
posted by cribcage at 11:02 AM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I use Kerrygold (82% butterfat) as my go-to baking butter and get really good results. Costco sells a two-pound box (8 sticks) for $10.99, which is basically about the same price as two pounds of the cheap stuff in most places.
posted by Autumnheart at 11:04 AM on April 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Autumnheart at 11:04 AM on April 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
“Butter-forward” oh god haven’t we all been through enough already
posted by Automocar at 11:04 AM on April 21, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by Automocar at 11:04 AM on April 21, 2019 [13 favorites]
I use extra virgin olive oil for all my cooking and baking needs. I will experiment with using high pro Greek yogurt and either salt or buttery flavor popcorn salt to change the fat ratio, and try to chill and emulsify this, I will get back to you later.
My doctor was very pleased with the results of the switch, my cholesterol levels fell right into normal range with the good cholesterol even better. I never thought to duplicate the butter flavor for baking. I forget to chill the olive oil for crust, but it can work, using a wide mouthed jar in the fridge.
posted by Oyéah at 11:26 AM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
My doctor was very pleased with the results of the switch, my cholesterol levels fell right into normal range with the good cholesterol even better. I never thought to duplicate the butter flavor for baking. I forget to chill the olive oil for crust, but it can work, using a wide mouthed jar in the fridge.
posted by Oyéah at 11:26 AM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think Costco stuff isn't usually in the mix for test kitchens like Food52 and the various Condé Nast properties mainly because the nearest Costco locations are kind of a pain to get to from their offices in Manhattan. I also think it's a bit of blind spot, since I bet they don't even realize there are Costcos in NYC at all (I didn't know this until today).
posted by theory at 11:32 AM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by theory at 11:32 AM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I want a test that includes both Costco and Aldi. Some of us don't live in Manhattan!
I never make all-butter pie crusts, though. I usually use 50% butter and 50% cream cheese, and I assume the cream-cheese flavor offsets the butter.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:41 AM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I never make all-butter pie crusts, though. I usually use 50% butter and 50% cream cheese, and I assume the cream-cheese flavor offsets the butter.
posted by ArbitraryAndCapricious at 11:41 AM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Can someone please explain what's meant by American style and European style in this context? I suspect Canadian butter is another beast entirely and I find those sort of distinctions matter, at least with some of Stella Parks's recipes.
posted by peppermind at 12:18 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by peppermind at 12:18 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
American style butter has lower butterfat content and higher water content than European style butter.
posted by theory at 12:24 PM on April 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by theory at 12:24 PM on April 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Was going to price-gripe about our good local discount(Market Basket) but I think TJ is the same.
posted by sammyo at 12:24 PM on April 21, 2019
posted by sammyo at 12:24 PM on April 21, 2019
Can someone please explain what's meant by American style and European style in this context?
One difference is that American dairy farms are factory feed lots where the cows eat mostly processed food and wade around in poop, whereas European dairy farms might be more likely to have cows in a field eating grass for much of the year. Not sure how that might affect baking qualities though.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:29 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
One difference is that American dairy farms are factory feed lots where the cows eat mostly processed food and wade around in poop, whereas European dairy farms might be more likely to have cows in a field eating grass for much of the year. Not sure how that might affect baking qualities though.
posted by Bee'sWing at 12:29 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I’ve never heard of Breakstone’s, and I don’t think they sell Cabot’s around here. And there’s no Trader Joe’s in the state. So this is a super-useful article for me.
posted by leahwrenn at 12:35 PM on April 21, 2019
posted by leahwrenn at 12:35 PM on April 21, 2019
There's totally a Costco in Manhattan--on 117th St/FDR Drive. It's a hike from 1WTC where Condé Nast appears to be, but there's a subway-accessible Costco in Sunset Park that's actually easier to get to from lower Manhattan!
Breakstone is a brand I'd never seen before moving to NYC (but for all I know is common throughout the eastern seaboard). It either goes on sale a lot or is the cheapest you find in stores because I've definitely bought it and that's my butter-buying process. (I don't think any of my local supermarkets have own-brand butter.)
posted by hoyland at 12:44 PM on April 21, 2019
Breakstone is a brand I'd never seen before moving to NYC (but for all I know is common throughout the eastern seaboard). It either goes on sale a lot or is the cheapest you find in stores because I've definitely bought it and that's my butter-buying process. (I don't think any of my local supermarkets have own-brand butter.)
posted by hoyland at 12:44 PM on April 21, 2019
Breakstone's scoop:
Now owned by Kraft Foods, dairy products sold under Breakstone's in the East are sold as Knudsen's in the West. Kinda like Hellmann's vs. Best Foods in mayonnaise brands. So if you've had one you've had the other.
Also if you're of a certain age and area, you know Breakstone's from its TV ad avatar Sam Breakstone, the shouty turn of the century greengrocer demanding about quality. (It's been decades, but when I imagine a tub of Sour Cream, I still picture a Breakstone's label.)
posted by bartleby at 1:28 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Now owned by Kraft Foods, dairy products sold under Breakstone's in the East are sold as Knudsen's in the West. Kinda like Hellmann's vs. Best Foods in mayonnaise brands. So if you've had one you've had the other.
Also if you're of a certain age and area, you know Breakstone's from its TV ad avatar Sam Breakstone, the shouty turn of the century greengrocer demanding about quality. (It's been decades, but when I imagine a tub of Sour Cream, I still picture a Breakstone's label.)
posted by bartleby at 1:28 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I once got in a really weird internet fight with someone over whether melted butter or melted margarine was better for topping popcorn.
Turns out, Canadian butter has virtually no water content and Canadian margarine has lots of water - and American margarine has virtually no water content but the butter is watery.
For a long time, margarine in Quebec wasn't allowed to be coloured (to resemble 'real' butter).
posted by porpoise at 1:36 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Turns out, Canadian butter has virtually no water content and Canadian margarine has lots of water - and American margarine has virtually no water content but the butter is watery.
For a long time, margarine in Quebec wasn't allowed to be coloured (to resemble 'real' butter).
posted by porpoise at 1:36 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
The Best Butter for...
How healthy it is? Nope
How sustainable the farming practices are? Nope
How many calories it contains? Nope
The standards of animal welfare for the dairy cows? Nope
adjust our recipies according to the ingredients?, nah too complicated just give us the one which tasted good.
posted by Lanark at 1:44 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
How healthy it is? Nope
How sustainable the farming practices are? Nope
How many calories it contains? Nope
The standards of animal welfare for the dairy cows? Nope
adjust our recipies according to the ingredients?, nah too complicated just give us the one which tasted good.
posted by Lanark at 1:44 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
Actually (pushes up glasses) there's two big differences between European and American butter. There's the butterfat content; American (and Canadian) are 80% or more by law, European is 82%. But also European butter tends to be slightly cultured / fermented so it has a bit of an extra funky / sour flavor to it. Some American companies make cultured butter too, and some make higher fat "European style butter".
There's also a delicious world of high end French butter. I've only had it served at table to put on bread, where the butter is treated as almost as special and complex a thing as a cheese would be.
I could have sworn I read an article a year ago where someone measured the actual butterfat in American butters and found significant variability, including some under the 80% threshold. But I can't find it now on Google nor on Cook's Illustrated, so maybe I'm imagining it.
posted by Nelson at 2:04 PM on April 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
There's also a delicious world of high end French butter. I've only had it served at table to put on bread, where the butter is treated as almost as special and complex a thing as a cheese would be.
I could have sworn I read an article a year ago where someone measured the actual butterfat in American butters and found significant variability, including some under the 80% threshold. But I can't find it now on Google nor on Cook's Illustrated, so maybe I'm imagining it.
posted by Nelson at 2:04 PM on April 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
Glad you really embraced the spirit of the challenge Lanark.
posted by Carillon at 2:35 PM on April 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by Carillon at 2:35 PM on April 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
It's an interesting little test, so far as it goes, but it's frustratingly silent on the why there were such differences between what should be pretty much the same product. Were there minuscule butterfat differences between the top and bottom butters?
FWIW, we get our butter at Aldi. It bakes juuuust dandy.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:21 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
FWIW, we get our butter at Aldi. It bakes juuuust dandy.
posted by Thorzdad at 3:21 PM on April 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
A Baker’s Golden Rule: Not All Butter Is Created Equal (Andrea Strong, Taste)
...The best butter for piecrust is the subject of some debate, explains Joshua Livsey, the executive pastry chef at Harvest in Cambridge. “A higher-fat butter is sometimes preferable because excessive moisture in a dough will hydrate the flour too much and cause gluten development, which leads to a tougher dough that’s less tender and flaky,” he says. “On the other hand, the flaky crust comes from the chunks of butter melting in the oven and releasing steam, which comes from moisture. You’re looking at very fine details at this point. In my opinion a good piecrust comes more from technique rather than the fat content of the butter—there is only a few percent difference in moisture content between the two.”
posted by Start with Dessert at 3:42 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
...The best butter for piecrust is the subject of some debate, explains Joshua Livsey, the executive pastry chef at Harvest in Cambridge. “A higher-fat butter is sometimes preferable because excessive moisture in a dough will hydrate the flour too much and cause gluten development, which leads to a tougher dough that’s less tender and flaky,” he says. “On the other hand, the flaky crust comes from the chunks of butter melting in the oven and releasing steam, which comes from moisture. You’re looking at very fine details at this point. In my opinion a good piecrust comes more from technique rather than the fat content of the butter—there is only a few percent difference in moisture content between the two.”
posted by Start with Dessert at 3:42 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I love Bravetart by Stella Parks. You can get the recipes here, too. Everything I have made from it amazing. I use Kerrygold and think the taste is more buttery than Costco's Kirkland brand.
posted by waving at 4:40 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by waving at 4:40 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yes! I feel vindicated now. I've always told my roommates that I've got my baking butter (the cheapest possible) and my good eating butter (Kerrygold), and they've always given me weird side eye.
posted by astapasta24 at 5:00 PM on April 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by astapasta24 at 5:00 PM on April 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
This is useful information if one is in Europe and uses American recipes. I wasn't aware of it at all, and generally, you get a better selection of recipes by googling in English because the USA is big and there are many countries where people communicate in English.
That said, in my house, the young are very climate conscious, and would never eat any form of butter from cows who are not sustainably raised and fed. One of my nephews polices this strictly, checking the brands in the fridge. My own kids just go vegan when in doubt. So all our recipes have to be with European butter, from climate friendly and ecological farms. I guess I need specialized recipes.
posted by mumimor at 5:06 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
That said, in my house, the young are very climate conscious, and would never eat any form of butter from cows who are not sustainably raised and fed. One of my nephews polices this strictly, checking the brands in the fridge. My own kids just go vegan when in doubt. So all our recipes have to be with European butter, from climate friendly and ecological farms. I guess I need specialized recipes.
posted by mumimor at 5:06 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
No fair! They allowed butter with "natural flavors" added to it. Butter that contains added "natural flavors" tastes off-balance, a little too much like margarine, because it has too much diacetyl added. But now some people who have grown to expect the added "natural flavors" complain that butter without the added flavors taste bland!
Yes, it's the exact same diacetyl that causes popcorn lung. It's legal (at least in the US) to call it (and just about anything else) a "natural flavor" if you make it from a bacterial or fungal culture, no matter how unlike anything you'd want to eat that slurry of microbes may be, before refining. Yes, diacetyl is a natural component of natural butter, but added diacetyl unbalances the flavor. It's just like added vanillin to natural vanilla: natural vanilla does contain a great deal of vanillin, but it also contains other flavors in a certain balance that adding the purified chemical will skew.
It was only a few years ago that unsalted butter started appearing in the US with added "natural flavors". It used to be that real butter was defined as containing only butter and salt, with optional undeclared annatto coloring. I don't know what happened to it.
I won't buy Land O Lakes unsalted butter because it contains this added ingredient, and it just doesn't taste right anymore. Same with store brands. I am reduced to buying salted butter, when buying relatively inexpensive brands such as Land O Lakes, because for some reason the salted versions do not have "natural flavors" added to them. That means you never get that odd whiff of margarine as you're cooking with it, that cooking with diacetyl-supplemented butter sometimes produces.
Is anybody else with me on this?
posted by chromium at 5:13 PM on April 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
Yes, it's the exact same diacetyl that causes popcorn lung. It's legal (at least in the US) to call it (and just about anything else) a "natural flavor" if you make it from a bacterial or fungal culture, no matter how unlike anything you'd want to eat that slurry of microbes may be, before refining. Yes, diacetyl is a natural component of natural butter, but added diacetyl unbalances the flavor. It's just like added vanillin to natural vanilla: natural vanilla does contain a great deal of vanillin, but it also contains other flavors in a certain balance that adding the purified chemical will skew.
It was only a few years ago that unsalted butter started appearing in the US with added "natural flavors". It used to be that real butter was defined as containing only butter and salt, with optional undeclared annatto coloring. I don't know what happened to it.
I won't buy Land O Lakes unsalted butter because it contains this added ingredient, and it just doesn't taste right anymore. Same with store brands. I am reduced to buying salted butter, when buying relatively inexpensive brands such as Land O Lakes, because for some reason the salted versions do not have "natural flavors" added to them. That means you never get that odd whiff of margarine as you're cooking with it, that cooking with diacetyl-supplemented butter sometimes produces.
Is anybody else with me on this?
posted by chromium at 5:13 PM on April 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
Is anybody else with me on this?
I'm honestly shocked that you can add anything else than salt to butter. Won't buy that.
posted by mumimor at 5:40 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm honestly shocked that you can add anything else than salt to butter. Won't buy that.
posted by mumimor at 5:40 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
My understanding is that salting butter was originally a method of helping preserve it for longer.
posted by gryftir at 5:47 PM on April 21, 2019
posted by gryftir at 5:47 PM on April 21, 2019
Salting butter makes it safe to store at (approximately) room temperatures. Which is a win-win: The result is nice soft butter that's easy to spread on bread, and it's slightly salty for the umami, too. But you shouldn't bake with it, and it's not exactly shelf-stable in the way flour or salt are; if the kitchen is too warm, the butter should be in the fridge regardless of salt content.
*(I quickly tried looking up what the recommended temperature-over-time is for storing salted butter, but Google only thinks I'm interested in random people's opinions on baking with salted butter, so you're on your own.)
posted by ardgedee at 5:57 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
*(I quickly tried looking up what the recommended temperature-over-time is for storing salted butter, but Google only thinks I'm interested in random people's opinions on baking with salted butter, so you're on your own.)
posted by ardgedee at 5:57 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
For whatever it's worth, I just checked the labels of our Costco butter, and it includes "natural flavorings". Blah. Maybe their organic butter is better?
posted by ardgedee at 5:59 PM on April 21, 2019
posted by ardgedee at 5:59 PM on April 21, 2019
Just a reminder that there are plenty of farms in the US that sustainably raise and pasture-graze their cattle, and sell pasture-fed dairy. You can find it everywhere. It’s not like the US sells only cheap watery butter or imported European butter.
It bugs the crap out of me when people generalize food availability in the United States like everything is mass-produced by factories. From some of the posts in here, you’d think the only thing in an American dairy case is generic butter with fake flavoring, American cheese, and factory eggs with extra cruelty. (Topped off with chocolate made only by Hershey or Nestle, because American stores are forbidden from selling any other kind! /s) Maybe you have to live in flyover country for this, but I have the choice of goods from several local dairies at every level of grocery store in a 70-mile radius. Hell, I live 5 miles away from a dairy that sells at the grocery store right down the street.
I don’t know where people are buying their butter, but really. Take an extra minute to look at the shelf. Chances are you’ve got some artisan butter in there from a local producer.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:18 PM on April 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
It bugs the crap out of me when people generalize food availability in the United States like everything is mass-produced by factories. From some of the posts in here, you’d think the only thing in an American dairy case is generic butter with fake flavoring, American cheese, and factory eggs with extra cruelty. (Topped off with chocolate made only by Hershey or Nestle, because American stores are forbidden from selling any other kind! /s) Maybe you have to live in flyover country for this, but I have the choice of goods from several local dairies at every level of grocery store in a 70-mile radius. Hell, I live 5 miles away from a dairy that sells at the grocery store right down the street.
I don’t know where people are buying their butter, but really. Take an extra minute to look at the shelf. Chances are you’ve got some artisan butter in there from a local producer.
posted by Autumnheart at 8:18 PM on April 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
I would like to state for the record that this post inspired me to bake banana bread tonight, with the generic brand butter in my freezer, and it is fabulous.
posted by rogerroger at 9:28 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by rogerroger at 9:28 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
This is useful information if one is in Europe and uses American recipes...
Yes I discovered this while living overseas for a while and baking some of my (American) family recipes for the holidays. A lot of things don't taste that different because butter is just one of many ingredients. But for basic recipes like Russian tea cakes (aka Mexican wedding cakes, aka butterballs) where so much of the flavor comes from the butter, the European style butter made them noticeably richer. On the other hand, the higher butterfat content made it harder to maintain the spherical shape during baking because they tended to melt and slump and they were prone to burning on the bottoms.
posted by theory at 9:54 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yes I discovered this while living overseas for a while and baking some of my (American) family recipes for the holidays. A lot of things don't taste that different because butter is just one of many ingredients. But for basic recipes like Russian tea cakes (aka Mexican wedding cakes, aka butterballs) where so much of the flavor comes from the butter, the European style butter made them noticeably richer. On the other hand, the higher butterfat content made it harder to maintain the spherical shape during baking because they tended to melt and slump and they were prone to burning on the bottoms.
posted by theory at 9:54 PM on April 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I found the Costco house brand to end up a little oily for baking. The best butter I've ever had is SMJÖR. It's... amazing. Really, really amazing. Alas, I can no longer get it where I live.
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 9:56 PM on April 21, 2019
posted by cowcowgrasstree at 9:56 PM on April 21, 2019
Autumnheart: "Take an extra minute to look at the shelf. Chances are you’ve got some artisan butter in there from a local producer."
I'll take a picture the next time I go to Safeway and post it to this thread, but I'm pretty sure my local grocery store does not have any kind of local, pasture-grazed butter. And I live amidst the fields and pasture of California's Central Valley. I suspect the local coop *might* have something at a steep, steep price.
European regulations and (perhaps most importantly) targeted massive subsidies really do, I think, improve the quality of food. We give our agricultural industry massive subsidies too, but they don't seem to really benefit those of us who just eat the food.
posted by crazy with stars at 12:17 AM on April 22, 2019 [5 favorites]
I'll take a picture the next time I go to Safeway and post it to this thread, but I'm pretty sure my local grocery store does not have any kind of local, pasture-grazed butter. And I live amidst the fields and pasture of California's Central Valley. I suspect the local coop *might* have something at a steep, steep price.
European regulations and (perhaps most importantly) targeted massive subsidies really do, I think, improve the quality of food. We give our agricultural industry massive subsidies too, but they don't seem to really benefit those of us who just eat the food.
posted by crazy with stars at 12:17 AM on April 22, 2019 [5 favorites]
I grew up on margarine (actually, more likely the yogurt-based spreads like Brummel and Brown) and didn't like the taste of butter at all. My first girlfriend refused to indulge my weird palate and I gradually got used to butter, but didn't really feel any affection for it. Then we moved to rural Massachusetts, where we get all our dairy at a little shop where you can go around back into the barn and pet the cows (turns out Brown Swiss cows are extremely friendly and pettable) and the butter... oh man. I could never go back.
I assume it's American-style (doesn't say different on the label) but it definitely doesn't have anything in it but cream and salt.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:58 AM on April 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I assume it's American-style (doesn't say different on the label) but it definitely doesn't have anything in it but cream and salt.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:58 AM on April 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
Lanark, the article is literally called The Best Butter for Baking, not for your health, not for the environment, not for animal welfare, so yeah, they went with the one that provides the best baking results.
posted by Rock Steady at 7:36 AM on April 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Rock Steady at 7:36 AM on April 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
Autumnheart, if you are referring to my comment, I must assure you that I am well aware that there are great products in the US. The difference is that in Europe, the EU regulates products so if you look at a shelf with different brands of butter, they are all pure butter, or salted butter. Most are very slightly fermented, but that also depends on where you are in Europe. On the butter shelf, you can choose between organic (free range and grass fed cows) or "normal". But even the normal cows who live under restrained circumstances have regulated lives, so you don't see the type of feed lots that you have in the US and South America, I think even if you don't let your cows out on grass, you have to have something like half an acre of land pr. cow. My nephews and daughters insist that we don't eat anything that contributes to global warming or poor working conditions for humans, which the normal products do.
Many people like their butter with some rapeseed oil in it for a lighter spread, but then it can't be called butter.
Another example: If you look at a shelf called feta, it's all Greek feta, made in the traditional way, according to regulations. I actually really like some feta-type cheeses from other countries, but they are named "Greek style cheese", because feta is a protected name. And so on for hundreds of everyday products.
These regulations are not only there to protect the consumers and the animals, but also to keep out competition with lower standards and protect the producers. The EU will not import foodstuffs that are produced below EU standards. It's not always about direct subsidies, but sometimes more about protection of local traditions.
If you are a conscious consumer it doesn't necessarily make a huge difference. But if you are not, it does. This regulatory regime should be a huge issue in the Brexit debate, but somehow it isn't.
Anyway, my remark above was solely about the practicality of using recipes across the Atlantic Ocean. Not about criticizing America. I really want to learn to bake Panettone, but my Italian is not good enough for Italian recipes, so I turn to English. And now I get that those recipes don't work because the butter isn't the same. I'm relieved, and also I still want to learn to make Panettone.
posted by mumimor at 9:43 AM on April 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
Many people like their butter with some rapeseed oil in it for a lighter spread, but then it can't be called butter.
Another example: If you look at a shelf called feta, it's all Greek feta, made in the traditional way, according to regulations. I actually really like some feta-type cheeses from other countries, but they are named "Greek style cheese", because feta is a protected name. And so on for hundreds of everyday products.
These regulations are not only there to protect the consumers and the animals, but also to keep out competition with lower standards and protect the producers. The EU will not import foodstuffs that are produced below EU standards. It's not always about direct subsidies, but sometimes more about protection of local traditions.
If you are a conscious consumer it doesn't necessarily make a huge difference. But if you are not, it does. This regulatory regime should be a huge issue in the Brexit debate, but somehow it isn't.
Anyway, my remark above was solely about the practicality of using recipes across the Atlantic Ocean. Not about criticizing America. I really want to learn to bake Panettone, but my Italian is not good enough for Italian recipes, so I turn to English. And now I get that those recipes don't work because the butter isn't the same. I'm relieved, and also I still want to learn to make Panettone.
posted by mumimor at 9:43 AM on April 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
Trigger warning-Folksy bullshit.
In my grandma's kitchen, she had a maybe three gallon crock that was tall, shaped like a vase, with a woooden lid, which accommodated an electric beater, and the lid sealed somewhat to the top. She put their warm, fresh cow's milk in it and turned it on to churn the fresh milk into buttermilk. The process of leaving the milk in a natural state, warm led to fermentation and separation of the fats from the buttermilk. She then dredged the butter off the top. She had a wide bladed tool she used to form the new, fresh butter into a wooden mould. The part that pushed the butter back out of the one pound mould, had a rose carved in it, so when the rectangle of new butter was pushed out and onto the butter dish, it had a decorative rose on top. The butter was unsalted with the slight funk from the buttermilk. 1965 was the last time I tasted the best of butters. I still remember the hum from the churn, and the taste of the butter, with her blackberry jam, on her buttermilk bisquits.
I will make brief mention of her deep dish blackberry cobbler, with dumplings. Oh!
posted by Oyéah at 10:30 AM on April 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
In my grandma's kitchen, she had a maybe three gallon crock that was tall, shaped like a vase, with a woooden lid, which accommodated an electric beater, and the lid sealed somewhat to the top. She put their warm, fresh cow's milk in it and turned it on to churn the fresh milk into buttermilk. The process of leaving the milk in a natural state, warm led to fermentation and separation of the fats from the buttermilk. She then dredged the butter off the top. She had a wide bladed tool she used to form the new, fresh butter into a wooden mould. The part that pushed the butter back out of the one pound mould, had a rose carved in it, so when the rectangle of new butter was pushed out and onto the butter dish, it had a decorative rose on top. The butter was unsalted with the slight funk from the buttermilk. 1965 was the last time I tasted the best of butters. I still remember the hum from the churn, and the taste of the butter, with her blackberry jam, on her buttermilk bisquits.
I will make brief mention of her deep dish blackberry cobbler, with dumplings. Oh!
posted by Oyéah at 10:30 AM on April 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
mumimor: "But even the normal cows who live under restrained circumstances have regulated lives, so you don't see the type of feed lots that you have in the US and South America, I think even if you don't let your cows out on grass, you have to have something like half an acre of land pr. cow."
I think this is overly optimistic -- EU laws mandate 'freedom of movement' for animals, but don't (to my knowledge) require anything like a set amount of land per cow.
E.g. according to this recent audit on the living conditions of dairy cows in the UK, 8% of farms house their cattle indoors 24 hours a day all year. Nevertheless, the audit concludes "the measures in place generally ensure that cattle on dairy farms are not caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury." A far cry from the US system, which has plenty of unnecessary pain and suffering. Furthermore, the mere existence of this audit points to the value of the EU and its bureaucracy.
posted by crazy with stars at 10:48 AM on April 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think this is overly optimistic -- EU laws mandate 'freedom of movement' for animals, but don't (to my knowledge) require anything like a set amount of land per cow.
E.g. according to this recent audit on the living conditions of dairy cows in the UK, 8% of farms house their cattle indoors 24 hours a day all year. Nevertheless, the audit concludes "the measures in place generally ensure that cattle on dairy farms are not caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury." A far cry from the US system, which has plenty of unnecessary pain and suffering. Furthermore, the mere existence of this audit points to the value of the EU and its bureaucracy.
posted by crazy with stars at 10:48 AM on April 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm really tired today, but crazy with stars, you are right about the animal welfare part of it. The control of acreage is about animal waste and pollution of waterways, and thus obviously important for pollution and warming issues, but unfortunately not for animal welfare. This is exactly why our kids won't touch the so-called normal stuff.
posted by mumimor at 11:06 AM on April 22, 2019
posted by mumimor at 11:06 AM on April 22, 2019
My father visited the Netherlands last year with some friends with farming interests, so among the sights they visited was a mostly automated dairy farm. Apparently the cows wandered freely, and when they started to feel uncomfortable, they headed into this large horseshoe shaped barn that had automated milking stations, and then wandered out again to continue grazing. I gather there was something like one supervisor for a thousand cows. According to Dad, they were some of the happiest healthiest looking cows he'd ever seen.
posted by tavella at 11:36 AM on April 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by tavella at 11:36 AM on April 22, 2019 [4 favorites]
Trigger warning-Folksy bullshit.
posted by Oyéah at 12:30 PM
Don't do this.
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:20 PM on April 22, 2019
posted by Oyéah at 12:30 PM
Don't do this.
posted by fiercecupcake at 1:20 PM on April 22, 2019
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posted by Going To Maine at 10:39 AM on April 21, 2019