In the Mood for Infinity Glove
July 21, 2019 6:54 AM Subscribe
Now that Phase 3 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe has wrapped up with Spider-Man: Far From Home, the first half of its Phase 4 films and TV shows was unveiled at SDCC 2019, including Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings with Simu Liu as Shang-Chi and the HK legend Tony Leung as The Mandarin; Natalie Portman picking up the big hammer in Thor: Love and Thunder; Mahershala Ali becoming Blade; Wanda joining Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, and so much more.
Oh, and yesterday a little indie movie called Avengers: Endgame grossed $2.7892 billion worldwide, officially surpassing Avatar as the (non-inflation adjusted) highest grossing movie of all time.
Oh, and yesterday a little indie movie called Avengers: Endgame grossed $2.7892 billion worldwide, officially surpassing Avatar as the (non-inflation adjusted) highest grossing movie of all time.
It is not so much that I love Endgame more as much as I like Avatar less.
And by "like" I mean "I hate Avatar with the fire of a thousand burning suns".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:23 AM on July 21, 2019 [20 favorites]
And by "like" I mean "I hate Avatar with the fire of a thousand burning suns".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:23 AM on July 21, 2019 [20 favorites]
As someone with more stake in low-key Canadian sitcoms than the Marvel universe, it's kind of awesome to see Simu Liu get such a huge role. The acting in Kim's Convenience is uniformly excellent, and he's no exception.
Pro tip: Watch Kim's Convenience! It's available in most countries on Netflix.
posted by Alex404 at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2019 [16 favorites]
Pro tip: Watch Kim's Convenience! It's available in most countries on Netflix.
posted by Alex404 at 7:25 AM on July 21, 2019 [16 favorites]
Having never even heard of Shang-Chi, after a solid twenty years of comic collecting and the shameful longboxes to prove it, I had absolutely no feelings about the film, until I saw that Tony Leung is going to be the villain. As far as I’m now concerned, this is the most much watch Marvel film I can imagine.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:27 AM on July 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Ghidorah at 7:27 AM on July 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
'Avengers: Endgame' passes 'Avatar' to become the highest-grossing film ever
Pleasing to me less because of my love of Avengers and more for my annoyance that such a middling, forgettable film like Avatar ever held that spot.
posted by gwint at 7:49 AM on July 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
Pleasing to me less because of my love of Avengers and more for my annoyance that such a middling, forgettable film like Avatar ever held that spot.
posted by gwint at 7:49 AM on July 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
So I guess we have to wait another 10 years for a Squirrel Girl film? And did they say anything about the future of Iron Man, Cap, and Ant-Man?
posted by Brocktoon at 7:50 AM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 7:50 AM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
Iron Man is out for the foreseeable future and RDJ isn’t coming back. “The Falcon” is now Cap and we’ll see how that unfolds in the upcoming The Falcon and The Winter Soldier TV show - but otherwise, Chris Evans isn’t coming back.
No news on Ant Man. One would think that his increased prominence in Endgame would lead to Ant Man 3 and that may still happen, but it seems like Marvel is having to decide between piles of money that are very large (Ant Man) and truly enormous (Captain Marvel, Black Panther).
posted by adrianhon at 7:56 AM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
No news on Ant Man. One would think that his increased prominence in Endgame would lead to Ant Man 3 and that may still happen, but it seems like Marvel is having to decide between piles of money that are very large (Ant Man) and truly enormous (Captain Marvel, Black Panther).
posted by adrianhon at 7:56 AM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'm mostly disappointed that it's not called Thor 4: More Thor.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:13 AM on July 21, 2019 [57 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 8:13 AM on July 21, 2019 [57 favorites]
Hell, I'm still a little bitter that the second one wasn't actually called Untitled Deadpool Sequel.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:27 AM on July 21, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:27 AM on July 21, 2019 [17 favorites]
The backstory for this new Blade movie is delightful: within days of winning the Oscar for Green Book, Mahershala Ali met with Kevin Feige to request/pitch/demand the role.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:29 AM on July 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:29 AM on July 21, 2019 [10 favorites]
I can't help but feel a little sad for Wesley Snipes, who got the ball rolling on Blade being a character to be taken seriously -- both as a box office draw and as a black superhero. He was still referring to himself as "The Daywalker" on Twitter, last I checked.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:37 AM on July 21, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:37 AM on July 21, 2019 [14 favorites]
The excitement about the Tony Leung casting led to some confusion in my household because we started asking, "Wait - Chunking Express's Tony Leung Chiu-wai, or Election's Tony Leung Ka-fai?"
posted by thecjm at 8:46 AM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by thecjm at 8:46 AM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I can't help but feel a little sad for Wesley Snipes, who got the ball rolling on Blade being a character to be taken seriously -- both as a box office draw and as a black superhero. He was still referring to himself as "The Daywalker" on Twitter, last I checked.
Small potatoes, but if you haven't watched the TV version of What We Do In The Shadows yet, you may be delighted by one particular episode.
posted by Shepherd at 8:48 AM on July 21, 2019 [22 favorites]
Small potatoes, but if you haven't watched the TV version of What We Do In The Shadows yet, you may be delighted by one particular episode.
posted by Shepherd at 8:48 AM on July 21, 2019 [22 favorites]
Not really done any research, but are they going to swap in Real Mandarin for Fu Manchu in Shang Chi?
(Note, I last read Shang Chi forty years ago.)
posted by Grangousier at 8:59 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
(Note, I last read Shang Chi forty years ago.)
posted by Grangousier at 8:59 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
The last I heard, Squirrel Girl was going to be in some New Warriors series that's been in the planning stages for a while now. Which isn't ideal--Marvel should really consider her having a solo series or movie based on Ryan North's comics series--but we'll see.
Lots of interesting details in these reveals. No big surprise that Black Widow is a prequel or involves the Taskmaster (the latter being revealed by on-set photos), but I didn't expect to see Natalie Portman back in the Thor subfranchise, let alone becoming/taking on the role of hammer-slinger, so that's interesting. Mahershala Ali made a big impression as Cottonmouth in Luke Cage, but he obviously wouldn't be coming back in that role, so this is cool, and I can absolutely see him as Blade. (I hope that they give Wesley Snipes something to do in the movie, though.)
And bringing in a real Mandarin--interesting. I thought that the Iron Man subfranchise had disposed of Mandarin through Ben Kingsley's exceedingly droll Trevor, but I guess not. For people (like Ghidorah) who are unfamiliar with the character, Shang-Chi was part of Marvel's cashing in on the seventies kung-fu craze (the other part was Iron Fist), and while featuring an Asian protagonist as opposed to Iron Fist's standard-issue white savior, the book still wallowed in a lot of Orientalism, especially courtesy of the fact that Shang-Chi was Fu Manchu's son. That's not going to be in play any more (as Marvel lost the rights to Sax Rohmer's characters), which is probably for the best, as it steers them away from the more Orientalist stuff, although you still have the Mandarin... it'll be interesting to see what they do with that. The comic was generally well-written (I'm mostly familiar with Doug Moench's run), and besides Jim "Creator of Thanos" Starlin's art, he was also drawn by Mike Zeck, an artist mostly known in the seventies and eighties for this, the Punisher's first solo miniseries, the original Secret Wars, and a Spider-Man arc that had Kraven the Hunter eating handfuls of spiders, because J.M. de Matteis.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:59 AM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Lots of interesting details in these reveals. No big surprise that Black Widow is a prequel or involves the Taskmaster (the latter being revealed by on-set photos), but I didn't expect to see Natalie Portman back in the Thor subfranchise, let alone becoming/taking on the role of hammer-slinger, so that's interesting. Mahershala Ali made a big impression as Cottonmouth in Luke Cage, but he obviously wouldn't be coming back in that role, so this is cool, and I can absolutely see him as Blade. (I hope that they give Wesley Snipes something to do in the movie, though.)
And bringing in a real Mandarin--interesting. I thought that the Iron Man subfranchise had disposed of Mandarin through Ben Kingsley's exceedingly droll Trevor, but I guess not. For people (like Ghidorah) who are unfamiliar with the character, Shang-Chi was part of Marvel's cashing in on the seventies kung-fu craze (the other part was Iron Fist), and while featuring an Asian protagonist as opposed to Iron Fist's standard-issue white savior, the book still wallowed in a lot of Orientalism, especially courtesy of the fact that Shang-Chi was Fu Manchu's son. That's not going to be in play any more (as Marvel lost the rights to Sax Rohmer's characters), which is probably for the best, as it steers them away from the more Orientalist stuff, although you still have the Mandarin... it'll be interesting to see what they do with that. The comic was generally well-written (I'm mostly familiar with Doug Moench's run), and besides Jim "Creator of Thanos" Starlin's art, he was also drawn by Mike Zeck, an artist mostly known in the seventies and eighties for this, the Punisher's first solo miniseries, the original Secret Wars, and a Spider-Man arc that had Kraven the Hunter eating handfuls of spiders, because J.M. de Matteis.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:59 AM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
What I remember about Shang Chi was that it had an unusual relationship to the politics - although he was putatively allied to MI6 and connected to the CIA, he considered it to be an unsatisfactory arrangement, and was highly critical of their "games of deceit and death", and was not always clear about why he was with them against his father. Though, as I say, forty years.
posted by Grangousier at 9:05 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Grangousier at 9:05 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
The logo for Hawkeye reminded me so much of Matt Fraction and David Aja's run that I can't wait to be disappointed there's no Pizza Dog. But for now I will both dream of a Hawkguy series and fear all the ways it could be messed up.
posted by lilac girl at 9:07 AM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by lilac girl at 9:07 AM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
If they're using the logo and bringing in Kate Bishop, I'll be a bit surprised if Lucky isn't in there somewhere.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:12 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:12 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
With that logo, and Kate Bishop, if there isn’t an episode god entirely through Pizza Dog’s point of view, I’ll, I will
I’ll be very sad. And possibly harrumph a bit. I want Renner to fulfill his destiny as the Fraction Hawkguy. I want the series to open like the comic, with Hawkeye falling out of a window, and a voiceover saying “okay, this looks bad.”
Hell, I want Robert Downey Jr to make a cameo as they try to set up Barton’s dvr.
Pretty please?
posted by Ghidorah at 9:20 AM on July 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
I’ll be very sad. And possibly harrumph a bit. I want Renner to fulfill his destiny as the Fraction Hawkguy. I want the series to open like the comic, with Hawkeye falling out of a window, and a voiceover saying “okay, this looks bad.”
Hell, I want Robert Downey Jr to make a cameo as they try to set up Barton’s dvr.
Pretty please?
posted by Ghidorah at 9:20 AM on July 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
Is Hawkeye finally deaf in this new show? Because I'm so tired of disabled characters being written as abled. So. Tired.
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:28 AM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by 80 Cats in a Dog Suit at 9:28 AM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I don't know about Hawkeye, but the Eternals movie is featuring Lauren Ridloff, a deaf actress, as Makkari.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:38 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:38 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
At least one of the Eternals is a deaf character played by a deaf actor so they're ... Slowly learning. (ETA: Oop Halloween Jack beat me to it.) But yeah, the Fraction-era aesthetic bothered me because this is not that Hawkeye, but maybe Kate is idk.
I spent my morning on Tumblr making cracks about Ryan Reynolds needing to spend time doing breathing exercises, and James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender calling their agents. Can't wait for the third Dark Phoenix movie somehow.
Low-key am excited that Blade is back and that Simu Liu joins the gang (just from the networking alone... I mean I walked past at least two 'unrelated' upcoming movie posters that came out of the MCU clan at my movie theatre just this month). I know he's probably is too old for this but GDI, Timothy Olyphant for Reed Richards.
And Lady Thor! Am foolishly putting my money down that the endgame is she and Valkyrie.
posted by cendawanita at 9:38 AM on July 21, 2019
I spent my morning on Tumblr making cracks about Ryan Reynolds needing to spend time doing breathing exercises, and James McAvoy and Michael Fassbender calling their agents. Can't wait for the third Dark Phoenix movie somehow.
Low-key am excited that Blade is back and that Simu Liu joins the gang (just from the networking alone... I mean I walked past at least two 'unrelated' upcoming movie posters that came out of the MCU clan at my movie theatre just this month). I know he's probably is too old for this but GDI, Timothy Olyphant for Reed Richards.
And Lady Thor! Am foolishly putting my money down that the endgame is she and Valkyrie.
posted by cendawanita at 9:38 AM on July 21, 2019
Fantasyland: Michael Fassbinder is introduced as Wanda's father and we lead up to House Of M as the next "Avengers"-style big tentpole crossover event.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 9:51 AM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 9:51 AM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
Is Hawkeye finally deaf in this new show? Because I'm so tired of disabled characters being written as abled. So. Tired.
Please don't take this as any kind of indication that I think comics and comics movies aren't brimming with -isms of all sorts, but Hawkeye has been deaf for two runs (of significant lengths) of the comics, and the rest of the time (including when first introduced and long afterwards, and at the time that movie!Hawkeye was introduced) was not. tumblr-style fandom often does not cope well with the more unstable identities and characteristics of long-running comics characters. (Thus you get the weird "whitewashing Roma Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch" stuff from people who don't realize that for probably 85% of their existence they were Jewish and were only rewritten from that because of IP issues about a decade ago.) I think deaf Hawkeye is a perfectly fine idea, but it doesn't make sense to call him "a disabled character being written as abled" in the way you might talk about a character in some kind of art where there aren't fifteen different continuities layered over each other, or even in the way you might talk about someone like Prof. X, who has been in and out of the wheelchair, but has most often been paraplegic and certainly for most of his most well-known stories.
posted by praemunire at 10:04 AM on July 21, 2019 [18 favorites]
Please don't take this as any kind of indication that I think comics and comics movies aren't brimming with -isms of all sorts, but Hawkeye has been deaf for two runs (of significant lengths) of the comics, and the rest of the time (including when first introduced and long afterwards, and at the time that movie!Hawkeye was introduced) was not. tumblr-style fandom often does not cope well with the more unstable identities and characteristics of long-running comics characters. (Thus you get the weird "whitewashing Roma Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch" stuff from people who don't realize that for probably 85% of their existence they were Jewish and were only rewritten from that because of IP issues about a decade ago.) I think deaf Hawkeye is a perfectly fine idea, but it doesn't make sense to call him "a disabled character being written as abled" in the way you might talk about a character in some kind of art where there aren't fifteen different continuities layered over each other, or even in the way you might talk about someone like Prof. X, who has been in and out of the wheelchair, but has most often been paraplegic and certainly for most of his most well-known stories.
posted by praemunire at 10:04 AM on July 21, 2019 [18 favorites]
Are those the official/final logos for the upcoming films? Some of them look terrible -- the "Thor: Love & Thunder" logo looks like the opening credits from a low-budget 80s cartoon.
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:36 AM on July 21, 2019
posted by Saxon Kane at 10:36 AM on July 21, 2019
Praemunire makes a a good point. Only in comics could a character be described as "currently dead" with no-one batting an eyelid.
posted by Paul Slade at 10:41 AM on July 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 10:41 AM on July 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
④
posted by cazoo at 10:57 AM on July 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by cazoo at 10:57 AM on July 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
> Some of them look terrible -- the "Thor: Love & Thunder" logo looks like the opening credits from a low-budget 80s cartoon
See, I would say, "Some of them look AWESOME -- the 'Thor: Love & Thunder' logo looks like the opening credits from an 80s cartoon." Maybe the way 'Ragnarok' was clearly based on a blacklight poster, 'Thor Four: Now With More Thors' will be based on cartoons.
"Thor: Ragnarok" is one of my favorite movies. I speak with love.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:04 AM on July 21, 2019 [15 favorites]
See, I would say, "Some of them look AWESOME -- the 'Thor: Love & Thunder' logo looks like the opening credits from an 80s cartoon." Maybe the way 'Ragnarok' was clearly based on a blacklight poster, 'Thor Four: Now With More Thors' will be based on cartoons.
"Thor: Ragnarok" is one of my favorite movies. I speak with love.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:04 AM on July 21, 2019 [15 favorites]
> Is Hawkeye finally deaf in this new show? Because I'm so tired of disabled characters being written as abled. So. Tired.
Some riffing on twitter about that!
posted by spaceman_spiff at 11:13 AM on July 21, 2019
Some riffing on twitter about that!
posted by spaceman_spiff at 11:13 AM on July 21, 2019
What I remember about Shang Chi was that it had an unusual relationship to the politics - although he was putatively allied to MI6 and connected to the CIA, he considered it to be an unsatisfactory arrangement, and was highly critical of their "games of deceit and death", and was not always clear about why he was with them against his father. Though, as I say, forty years.
I’d say the chances of Marvel making a movie that calls into question the role of unaccountable American-led secret services / special forces are approximately the same as the chances of me single-handedly winning both gold medals in the beach volleyball event during the 2020 Olympic Games, so we should find out on both counts in the next couple of years.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 11:19 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I’d say the chances of Marvel making a movie that calls into question the role of unaccountable American-led secret services / special forces are approximately the same as the chances of me single-handedly winning both gold medals in the beach volleyball event during the 2020 Olympic Games, so we should find out on both counts in the next couple of years.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 11:19 AM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm someone who is mostly indifferent about the MCU. I don't know anything about the back story of Shang Chi and the Mandarin, but as a Chinese-American, knowing that there's a generation of kids -- including, one day, my own, I hope! -- who will see themselves represented on the big screen makes me absolutely giddy with delight. It's huge to be represented and seen! I can't believe that after waiting 25 years between Joy Luck Club and Crazy Rich Asians, Asian Americans will represented in the MCU like this.
I literally give no fucks about superhero films, but you bet your ass that I'll be there and dragging everyone I can to go.
posted by so much modern time at 11:40 AM on July 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
I literally give no fucks about superhero films, but you bet your ass that I'll be there and dragging everyone I can to go.
posted by so much modern time at 11:40 AM on July 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
Well looks like Marvel comics is bringing Shang Chi aka Sword Master back right now in comics.
posted by sleeping bear at 11:49 AM on July 21, 2019
posted by sleeping bear at 11:49 AM on July 21, 2019
He hasn't been that far gone - it's been a while since he last had a series of his own but he played a part in Gail Simone's recent Domino comics and some Spider-Man stuff a little while back, just off the top of my head.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:13 PM on July 21, 2019
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:13 PM on July 21, 2019
I’d say the chances of Marvel making a movie that calls into question the role of unaccountable American-led secret services / special forces are approximately the same as the chances of me single-handedly winning both gold medals in the beach volleyball event during the 2020 Olympic Games, so we should find out on both counts in the next couple of years.
Given that The Winter Soldier has already covered that turf, I'll be looking for you in Tokyo.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:30 PM on July 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
Given that The Winter Soldier has already covered that turf, I'll be looking for you in Tokyo.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:30 PM on July 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
Given that The Winter Soldier has already covered that turf, I'll be looking for you in Tokyo.
I may be mis-remembering the plot, but isn’t the problem in Winter Soldier that The Goodies have been infiltrated by The Baddies? My point was more that these organisations are stand-ins for real world equivalents that aren’t necessarily The Goodies at all.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 1:00 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I may be mis-remembering the plot, but isn’t the problem in Winter Soldier that The Goodies have been infiltrated by The Baddies? My point was more that these organisations are stand-ins for real world equivalents that aren’t necessarily The Goodies at all.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 1:00 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
…but I didn't expect to see Natalie Portman back in the Thor subfranchise…
I was curious about that too, and from what I was able to gather, her bailing was in part due to the misogynistic meddlings of Ike Perlmutter, who was eventually shown the door when it came to the Marvel Movies.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 1:06 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was curious about that too, and from what I was able to gather, her bailing was in part due to the misogynistic meddlings of Ike Perlmutter, who was eventually shown the door when it came to the Marvel Movies.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 1:06 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I may be mis-remembering the plot, but isn’t the problem in Winter Soldier that The Goodies have been infiltrated by The Baddies?
Well, had been infiltrated since the organization's very inception so that, despite the high-minded ideals of its founders, SHIELD had always served HYDRA's ends. It's not exactly a pro-government movie.
posted by restless_nomad at 1:08 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Well, had been infiltrated since the organization's very inception so that, despite the high-minded ideals of its founders, SHIELD had always served HYDRA's ends. It's not exactly a pro-government movie.
posted by restless_nomad at 1:08 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Well, had been infiltrated since the organization's very inception so that, despite the high-minded ideals of its founders, SHIELD had always served HYDRA's ends. It's not exactly a pro-government movie.
A final belabouring of my point and I’ll leave the thread and stop being the metal-armed former comrade who keeps turning up to ruin the fun: the problem with unaccountable paramilitary organisations, real or fictionalised, isn’t that they might be serving some sinister secret agenda. The problem is their regular agenda.
Like, to take an example that exists in both the MCU and the regular U, the issue with the CIA isn’t that it might have KGB/Hydra moles. Rather, it’s that basically everything they’ve ever done has been extremely bad, and that’s in large part an inevitable result of creating an institution that has carte blanche to use violence against supposedly existential threats while subject to zero oversight.
Anyway, I’ll get working on my spikes and digs, just in case Disney brings in Chomsky to punch up one of their scripts.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 1:35 PM on July 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
A final belabouring of my point and I’ll leave the thread and stop being the metal-armed former comrade who keeps turning up to ruin the fun: the problem with unaccountable paramilitary organisations, real or fictionalised, isn’t that they might be serving some sinister secret agenda. The problem is their regular agenda.
Like, to take an example that exists in both the MCU and the regular U, the issue with the CIA isn’t that it might have KGB/Hydra moles. Rather, it’s that basically everything they’ve ever done has been extremely bad, and that’s in large part an inevitable result of creating an institution that has carte blanche to use violence against supposedly existential threats while subject to zero oversight.
Anyway, I’ll get working on my spikes and digs, just in case Disney brings in Chomsky to punch up one of their scripts.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 1:35 PM on July 21, 2019 [6 favorites]
-The only way I'll watch a Hawkeye movie is if they recast the character. I think Renner is so unappealingly boring in all ways. (No offense Renner if you're reading this- you might be cool in real life).
- I know this is 2019 but don't get how Thor is now female since I didn't read the comics and can't be bothered to look it up.
- By the time Dr. Strange comes out it'll have been 5 years since the first one. C'mon!
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:40 PM on July 21, 2019
- I know this is 2019 but don't get how Thor is now female since I didn't read the comics and can't be bothered to look it up.
- By the time Dr. Strange comes out it'll have been 5 years since the first one. C'mon!
posted by Liquidwolf at 1:40 PM on July 21, 2019
Ok, I suppose you could read it either way - I'm inclined to believe that that's the point, that there was no way to create an org so perfectly structured for evil and have it... not do evil. Even if it sometimes does some good.
posted by restless_nomad at 1:41 PM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad at 1:41 PM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
Can we talk for a sec about the announcement that Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was promised to be scary/Marvel's first horror movie?
FUCK YEAH.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:43 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
FUCK YEAH.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:43 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
Can we talk for a sec about the announcement that Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was promised to be scary/Marvel's first horror movie?
I mean, the first one I was lukewarm on. But if they turn this into some kind of riff on Lovecraftian horror with a Marvel twist, I'm very interested to see how it turns out.
posted by synecdoche at 1:45 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
I mean, the first one I was lukewarm on. But if they turn this into some kind of riff on Lovecraftian horror with a Marvel twist, I'm very interested to see how it turns out.
posted by synecdoche at 1:45 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
WRT recasting Clint Barton, I note with some amusement that Arrow is in its final season, and, barring future crossovers, Stephen Amell will be looking for a job. (I haven't watched Arrow and don't know if Amell is any good or if he would even be allowed to do it under his contract with DC/Warner/the CW. The idea just amuses me.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:52 PM on July 21, 2019
posted by Halloween Jack at 1:52 PM on July 21, 2019
I love love love that Thor 4 seems to be doubling down on cosmic goofiness. That's always been my favorite flavor of comics.
posted by Reyturner at 2:23 PM on July 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Reyturner at 2:23 PM on July 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
Amell has gotten much, much better in his role. His acting has improved immensely over the course of the series. I don't think he has the right kind of energy, however, or presence to jump into a Hawk Guy type of series. I also can't see him wanting to make that jump.
posted by sardonyx at 2:24 PM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by sardonyx at 2:24 PM on July 21, 2019 [1 favorite]
praemunire: comics and comics movies [are] brimming with -isms of all sorts, but Hawkeye has been deaf for two runs (of significant lengths) of the comics, and the rest of the time (including when first introduced and long afterwards, and at the time that movie!Hawkeye was introduced) was not.
(Adjusts glasse -- er -- hearing aids) As a kid who was fitted with hearing aids at age four for a severe hearing loss, I was excited when I discovered in OHotMU as a youngster that Hawkeye wore hearing aids due to an accident with one of his arrows. I went out and got a fledgling series called West Coast Avengers, which was Hawkeye's first real chance to get out of Cap's shadow, and never looked back. They did retcon away his hearing loss when he was brought back to life (after... House of M? maybe?), which was a little disappointing for the reasons mentioned above - it's nice to feel represented in a media you love. I would be happy to have Hawkeye retconned again as either deaf or Deaf (although my hearing loss is not so severe that I don't pass as a hearing individual as long as I can wear my hearing aids).
posted by Slothrop at 2:25 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
(Adjusts glasse -- er -- hearing aids) As a kid who was fitted with hearing aids at age four for a severe hearing loss, I was excited when I discovered in OHotMU as a youngster that Hawkeye wore hearing aids due to an accident with one of his arrows. I went out and got a fledgling series called West Coast Avengers, which was Hawkeye's first real chance to get out of Cap's shadow, and never looked back. They did retcon away his hearing loss when he was brought back to life (after... House of M? maybe?), which was a little disappointing for the reasons mentioned above - it's nice to feel represented in a media you love. I would be happy to have Hawkeye retconned again as either deaf or Deaf (although my hearing loss is not so severe that I don't pass as a hearing individual as long as I can wear my hearing aids).
posted by Slothrop at 2:25 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
- I know this is 2019 but don't get how Thor is now female since I didn't read the comics and can't be bothered to look it up.
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if [s]he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:45 PM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if [s]he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:45 PM on July 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
> Hawkeye wore hearing aids due to an accident with one of his arrows
Wait, as an archer I have know more about this. Was it one of his exciting exploding arrows, or...?
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:54 PM on July 21, 2019
Wait, as an archer I have know more about this. Was it one of his exciting exploding arrows, or...?
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:54 PM on July 21, 2019
Waxy build-up. First thing came to hand.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:17 PM on July 21, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by Paul Slade at 3:17 PM on July 21, 2019 [18 favorites]
I know this is 2019 but don't get how Thor is now female since I didn't read the comics and can't be bothered to look it up.
Thor was a frog for a while. I get the impression that Thor isn't so much a name as a job title, like 007.
posted by Grangousier at 3:25 PM on July 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
Thor was a frog for a while. I get the impression that Thor isn't so much a name as a job title, like 007.
posted by Grangousier at 3:25 PM on July 21, 2019 [11 favorites]
Re: Thor, let's also note that Beta Ray Bill was also alluded to in Ragnarok. So things could get delightfully nutty.
I mean, even more so.
posted by billjings at 4:48 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I mean, even more so.
posted by billjings at 4:48 PM on July 21, 2019 [3 favorites]
I’d say the chances of Marvel making a movie that calls into question the role of unaccountable American-led secret services / special forces are approximately the same as the chances of me single-handedly winning both gold medals in the beach volleyball event during the 2020 Olympic Games [...]
A better example than Winter Soldier would probably be Black Panther. Are people forgetting who trained Killmonger in the first place, and the types of things he was said to have been doing on their behalf?
posted by Wandering Idiot at 4:49 PM on July 21, 2019 [12 favorites]
A better example than Winter Soldier would probably be Black Panther. Are people forgetting who trained Killmonger in the first place, and the types of things he was said to have been doing on their behalf?
posted by Wandering Idiot at 4:49 PM on July 21, 2019 [12 favorites]
I’m actually pretty okay with Renner as Hawkeye, and kind of felt that, as time went on, Renner was at least taking some hints on the character from the Fraction series, especially with his pep talk in Age of Ultron.
I can definitely see Renner having the same doofus energy that the Fraction Hawkeye did, and he’s certainly done enough characters full of self loathing to fill that role. I mean, I can literally hear him saying “all right, this looks bad.”
Just as long as there’s a newspaper headline somewhere in the series that screams “EVERYTHING AWFUL” with a sub head of “oh god, somebody please do something.”
posted by Ghidorah at 5:56 PM on July 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
I can definitely see Renner having the same doofus energy that the Fraction Hawkeye did, and he’s certainly done enough characters full of self loathing to fill that role. I mean, I can literally hear him saying “all right, this looks bad.”
Just as long as there’s a newspaper headline somewhere in the series that screams “EVERYTHING AWFUL” with a sub head of “oh god, somebody please do something.”
posted by Ghidorah at 5:56 PM on July 21, 2019 [8 favorites]
Renner brings the wrong energy to the role, too much douche, too much unearned swagger . Should be recast, IMO.
posted by signal at 6:21 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by signal at 6:21 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
billjings: "Re: Thor, let's also note that Beta Ray Bill was also alluded to in Ragnarok. So things could get delightfully nutty.
I mean, even more so."
I read the original run of the Avengers recently and was surprised to find out that at that time Thor spent most of his time as the mild-mannered doctor Donald Blake with Jane Foster working in his office as his nurse.
posted by octothorpe at 7:15 PM on July 21, 2019
I mean, even more so."
I read the original run of the Avengers recently and was surprised to find out that at that time Thor spent most of his time as the mild-mannered doctor Donald Blake with Jane Foster working in his office as his nurse.
posted by octothorpe at 7:15 PM on July 21, 2019
Can Mahershala Ali fight? One of the things that made Blade such a classic was that Wesley Snipes is a martial artist, which meant less cutting during fight sequences.
posted by um at 7:33 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by um at 7:33 PM on July 21, 2019 [2 favorites]
Instead of recasting Renner, just have Clint retire and have Kate Bishop take over.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:36 PM on July 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 7:36 PM on July 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
I read the original run of the Avengers recently and was surprised to find out that at that time Thor spent most of his time as the mild-mannered doctor Donald Blake with Jane Foster working in his office as his nurse.
At that time, Thor was more or less Marvel's answer to Superman - big red cape, massive powers, cosmic stage etc. Hence, he needed his own equivalent of Clark Kent and Lois Lane.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:54 AM on July 22, 2019
At that time, Thor was more or less Marvel's answer to Superman - big red cape, massive powers, cosmic stage etc. Hence, he needed his own equivalent of Clark Kent and Lois Lane.
posted by Paul Slade at 12:54 AM on July 22, 2019
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if [s]he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
I think I'm right in saying there was a scene in one of the earlier Marvel movies where Cap succeeds in picking up Thor's hammer. Everyone focused on the "worthy" aspect of that but does it also mean that Cap briefly possessed all Thor's power? If so, did Thor briefly lose that power then regain it when Cap put the hammer down again?
posted by Paul Slade at 1:26 AM on July 22, 2019
I think I'm right in saying there was a scene in one of the earlier Marvel movies where Cap succeeds in picking up Thor's hammer. Everyone focused on the "worthy" aspect of that but does it also mean that Cap briefly possessed all Thor's power? If so, did Thor briefly lose that power then regain it when Cap put the hammer down again?
posted by Paul Slade at 1:26 AM on July 22, 2019
Cap budges the hammer during the party at the beginning of Age of Ultron, and Thor freaks out a little. Everyone has taken a turn, and nothing budges. Cap tries, and there's a slight shift, and Thor immediately jumps in to take it back and laugh it off.
Then, in Ragnarok, the hammer is destroyed, and Odin helps Thor to understand that he didn't really need the hammer, he is the god of lightning and thunder, the hammer was just a tool. And yeah, in the comics, they've done a bit of fudging with the idea that Thor is a title, and belongs to the wielder of the hammer. As far as Thor losing that power when he didn't have the hammer, that's pretty much his main character arc in Ragnarok.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:36 AM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
Then, in Ragnarok, the hammer is destroyed, and Odin helps Thor to understand that he didn't really need the hammer, he is the god of lightning and thunder, the hammer was just a tool. And yeah, in the comics, they've done a bit of fudging with the idea that Thor is a title, and belongs to the wielder of the hammer. As far as Thor losing that power when he didn't have the hammer, that's pretty much his main character arc in Ragnarok.
posted by Ghidorah at 6:36 AM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I think I'm right in saying there was a scene in one of the earlier Marvel movies where Cap succeeds in picking up Thor's hammer. Everyone focused on the "worthy" aspect of that but does it also mean that Cap briefly possessed all Thor's power? If so, did Thor briefly lose that power then regain it when Cap put the hammer down again?
In the comics, that's how it would work; while Jane was Thor, the big blond guy we know and love had no powers (he had become "unworthy") and went by Odinson instead. In the movies, apparently not so much; as seen in Endgame, the hammer has power to confer even when Thor is drawing on his own strength (and using Stormbreaker as a focus). That might be an alternate-timeline thing too, but in either case there's room for Jane and Hemsworth!Thor to be Gods of Thunder at the same time.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:14 AM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
In the comics, that's how it would work; while Jane was Thor, the big blond guy we know and love had no powers (he had become "unworthy") and went by Odinson instead. In the movies, apparently not so much; as seen in Endgame, the hammer has power to confer even when Thor is drawing on his own strength (and using Stormbreaker as a focus). That might be an alternate-timeline thing too, but in either case there's room for Jane and Hemsworth!Thor to be Gods of Thunder at the same time.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:14 AM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
Hawkeye wore hearing aids due to an accident with one of his arrows
Wait, as an archer I have know more about this. Was it one of his exciting exploding arrows, or...?
He stuck one of his sonic arrowheads in his mouth to block a villain's mind-control doohickey and it permanently damaged his hearing.
They did retcon away his hearing loss when he was brought back to life (after... House of M? maybe?)
It was that stupid relaunch where Franklin Richards stuck everyone inside a volleyball. The same one that gave us Rob Liefeld's Captain Anabolics.
posted by haileris23 at 9:32 AM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
Wait, as an archer I have know more about this. Was it one of his exciting exploding arrows, or...?
He stuck one of his sonic arrowheads in his mouth to block a villain's mind-control doohickey and it permanently damaged his hearing.
They did retcon away his hearing loss when he was brought back to life (after... House of M? maybe?)
It was that stupid relaunch where Franklin Richards stuck everyone inside a volleyball. The same one that gave us Rob Liefeld's Captain Anabolics.
posted by haileris23 at 9:32 AM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'd never heard of Shang-chi before this, so I asked Mr. Dinty who described him as 'Iron First but actually Asian'. Which is still a step in the right direction, and I like the casting a lot!
On the other hand, I can't get myself to care about the Eternals at all, that plot seems like it's a good way to piss off someone (essentially the storyline of the Eternals is that all of the Earth's gods are based upon the same collection of immortal beings who are beautiful and have soap opera problems and fight some ugly monsters). I guess after the inhumans tanked they went with the next best thing?
I'm definitely in for the Hawkeye series if only to see Kate Bishop, but hoping that they keep the original Kate Bishop energy and not make Kate his kid or sidekick. And maybe have Kate Bishop take over.
It feels a little weird that we're getting a black widow movie after all of this time and having it feature a joke from a movie that came out in 2012, but I still welcome it. I would have much rather have it be set during the snap, but at least we're getting something.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:14 AM on July 22, 2019
On the other hand, I can't get myself to care about the Eternals at all, that plot seems like it's a good way to piss off someone (essentially the storyline of the Eternals is that all of the Earth's gods are based upon the same collection of immortal beings who are beautiful and have soap opera problems and fight some ugly monsters). I guess after the inhumans tanked they went with the next best thing?
I'm definitely in for the Hawkeye series if only to see Kate Bishop, but hoping that they keep the original Kate Bishop energy and not make Kate his kid or sidekick. And maybe have Kate Bishop take over.
It feels a little weird that we're getting a black widow movie after all of this time and having it feature a joke from a movie that came out in 2012, but I still welcome it. I would have much rather have it be set during the snap, but at least we're getting something.
posted by dinty_moore at 11:14 AM on July 22, 2019
I thought the run of comics with Jane as Thor was pretty great (the art was fantastic), but it occasionally seemed a little defensive, feeling the need for popular/authoritative characters to tell us that Jane was awesome and the read deal rather than just show us (which the comic was doing just fine).
What was so great about Ragnarok was how confident and comfortable it was with being a crazy comic book movie that it didn't need to be afraid of making characters look silly. I hope with Jane Thor they go all in with her being an insufferable science nerd or something like that.
posted by straight at 4:33 PM on July 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
What was so great about Ragnarok was how confident and comfortable it was with being a crazy comic book movie that it didn't need to be afraid of making characters look silly. I hope with Jane Thor they go all in with her being an insufferable science nerd or something like that.
posted by straight at 4:33 PM on July 22, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'm definitely in for the Hawkeye series if only to see Kate Bishop, but hoping that they keep the original Kate Bishop energy and not make Kate his kid or sidekick. And maybe have Kate Bishop take over.
I fully expect that the point of the series will be the passing of the mantle from Barton to Bishop.
I'm really excited for all of the phase 5 stuff... except for Doctor Strange. I love the concept and the character pairing, but I just don't believe Scott Derrickson is up to the task of making a compelling Doctor Strange movie or a compelling horror movie (based on the Doctor Strange movie he made and the big horror movie that he made).
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:19 PM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I fully expect that the point of the series will be the passing of the mantle from Barton to Bishop.
I'm really excited for all of the phase 5 stuff... except for Doctor Strange. I love the concept and the character pairing, but I just don't believe Scott Derrickson is up to the task of making a compelling Doctor Strange movie or a compelling horror movie (based on the Doctor Strange movie he made and the big horror movie that he made).
posted by IAmUnaware at 7:19 PM on July 22, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm a little surprised at all of the meh reactions to the Doctor Strange sequel. The origin parts of the first film, admittedly, were up and down, focused as they were on the old chestnut of the selfish, arrogant white man who has to learn better trope.
But the sequel will get to leave all of that behind and stick with and expand on the parts that worked: Cumberbatch as Strange, his associates, and the visuals, which were awesome.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:51 AM on July 23, 2019
But the sequel will get to leave all of that behind and stick with and expand on the parts that worked: Cumberbatch as Strange, his associates, and the visuals, which were awesome.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:51 AM on July 23, 2019
Dr. Strange is kinda like the Hulk in that I think he works best as a supporting character seen from the outside. I enjoyed him a lot more in Ragnarok and the Avengers movies. That's partly because he's a more experienced, mature character in those movies, but I think it's also that his magic has to be less mysterious and have clearer rules and limitations when he's the protagonist.
Maybe he needs a Watson to be the POV character?
Doctor Strange was a lot better than any of Derrickson 's earlier movies, so let's hope he's still growing and getting better.
posted by straight at 11:13 AM on July 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
Maybe he needs a Watson to be the POV character?
Doctor Strange was a lot better than any of Derrickson 's earlier movies, so let's hope he's still growing and getting better.
posted by straight at 11:13 AM on July 23, 2019 [1 favorite]
Paul Slade
I think I'm right in saying there was a scene in one of the earlier Marvel movies where Cap succeeds in picking up Thor's hammer. Everyone focused on the "worthy" aspect of that but does it also mean that Cap briefly possessed all Thor's power? If so, did Thor briefly lose that power then regain it when Cap put the hammer down again?
Bearing in mind that this is comic logic, and so "Whatever's most awesome" is an acceptable answer...
Yes, when someone else has the hammer, Thor loses access to most of his powers. He's usually still super strong, and super tough, but no more lightning bolts. For the lightning bolts, he needs some other source of super god-like power. Fortunately, he has Stormbreaker!
Next question: When he's dual wielding Mjolner and Stormbreaker, does he have DOUBLE Lightning powers? ... I'm going with yes, because it sounds awesome.
posted by Zudz at 12:58 PM on July 23, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think I'm right in saying there was a scene in one of the earlier Marvel movies where Cap succeeds in picking up Thor's hammer. Everyone focused on the "worthy" aspect of that but does it also mean that Cap briefly possessed all Thor's power? If so, did Thor briefly lose that power then regain it when Cap put the hammer down again?
Bearing in mind that this is comic logic, and so "Whatever's most awesome" is an acceptable answer...
Yes, when someone else has the hammer, Thor loses access to most of his powers. He's usually still super strong, and super tough, but no more lightning bolts. For the lightning bolts, he needs some other source of super god-like power. Fortunately, he has Stormbreaker!
Next question: When he's dual wielding Mjolner and Stormbreaker, does he have DOUBLE Lightning powers? ... I'm going with yes, because it sounds awesome.
posted by Zudz at 12:58 PM on July 23, 2019 [2 favorites]
See, I would say, "Some of them look AWESOME -- the 'Thor: Love & Thunder' logo looks like the opening credits from an 80s cartoon." Maybe the way 'Ragnarok' was clearly based on a blacklight poster, 'Thor Four: Now With More Thors' will be based on cartoons.
Yeah, I suppose it's a matter of taste. After some time, I don't think it's as bad as I first thought.
The Doctor Strange logo looks like it's the title of a D&D Campaign set in Ravenloft.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:21 PM on July 25, 2019
Yeah, I suppose it's a matter of taste. After some time, I don't think it's as bad as I first thought.
The Doctor Strange logo looks like it's the title of a D&D Campaign set in Ravenloft.
posted by Saxon Kane at 2:21 PM on July 25, 2019
Ok, but have you seen Thor: Ragnarok?
I say that as someone who pretty much fell off the Marvel movie train after the first Avengers movie.
posted by tobascodagama at 4:36 PM on July 27, 2019
I say that as someone who pretty much fell off the Marvel movie train after the first Avengers movie.
posted by tobascodagama at 4:36 PM on July 27, 2019
Dr. Strange is kinda like the Hulk in that I think he works best as a supporting character seen from the outside. [...] Maybe he needs a Watson to be the POV character?Easy! Just team him up with Everett K. Ross.
posted by mbrubeck at 9:01 PM on July 27, 2019 [1 favorite]
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