July 5, 2002

12:52 AM

It's the clothes.A fashion columnist in The Washington Post blames corporate scandals on business-casual clothes, which lead to casual ethics.
posted by kirkaracha (30 comments total)

Er, yeah. This'd be why corporate types are referred to as 'suits'. Nice try, but no thanks. :-)
posted by aeschenkarnos at 4:14 AM on July 5, 2002

You should also be weary of business people who have had their morals slackened from the distructive influence of rock and roll.
posted by vbfg at 4:58 AM on July 5, 2002

This article seems tongue and cheek, but it's absolutely true. As Oscar Wilde would have said, you have to be truly shallow not to judge people by appearances. Just from an anthropological point of view, you must be aware that rigid customs like "proper business attire" don't evolve for no reason. They serve some function. And I suspect the function is to keep people in line with their larger responsibilities and to provide a constant subconscious reminder that they are answerable to standards beyond their own interest. As long as you dress for work to please your self, why not adjust the rest of your work habits to please, and ultimately enrich only yourself?
posted by Faze at 5:33 AM on July 5, 2002

You know, as someone who would never wear business casual in her offtime (an understatement, to say the least), I almost prefer suits. I think that business casual is waaaay more confusing and it leads me to blend my business clothes with my regular clothes a lot more. I mean I'd never show up to my shift at Mayday Books in a suit, but I have received odd looks for a black and white flowered Ann Taylor dress. I'm not advocating dress up clothes, ever, for any occasion, but I am a little bit fashion stunted, and prefer to get less dirty looks everywhere that I go. I also think it's more expensive, even for women. Suits are the same prices as other grown-up-women clothes, and the styles change a lot more often. I don't think it helps business ethics a hoot though, I find the idea laughable.
posted by goneill at 6:39 AM on July 5, 2002

Why not take the flipside stance and hypothosize this: wearing a three-piece, formal suit every day can lead to people feeling more like they're leading a different life at work. Almost like it's a transformation when they get into costume. They can check their normal ethics at the door and subscribe to a different way of life at the office. The pressures of business and focus on the bottom line can lead to a mob mentality. When they go home, off comes the suit, and they can lead their normal, happy family lives. Suit=bubble, non-suit=normal.
posted by Ufez Jones at 7:56 AM on July 5, 2002

I always thought it was because of conflicts of interest between accountants acting as auditors and consultants at the same time - coupled with the madness of stock option rewards for short-term shareholder gains.
posted by ao4047 at 8:05 AM on July 5, 2002

Yeah... but the accountants wouldn't be conflicted if they were wearing suits. Pfffft.

Fashion columnist struggles to remain relevant now that the media is concerned with "real news" of economic collapse and threats of terrorist action, real and imagined. Film at 11.
posted by Vetinari at 8:10 AM on July 5, 2002

Ufez Jones, Good point. I know when I put on my suit (never three-piece) in the morning, I am climbing into my work bubble. But in most big corporations where I've worked, the "group think" is pretty wholesome, and the ethics are pretty strict. However, I did once work for a major TV network where people really did "check their ethics at the door," especially when it came to distancing themselves from programming that they personally disapproved of, and wouldn't dream of letting their children watch.
posted by Faze at 8:11 AM on July 5, 2002

I wish businessmen still wore hats to work. I wish I could wear a hat.

I wish I could pull off "rakish." (not in the "looks like a rake" way)
posted by ColdChef at 8:24 AM on July 5, 2002

ColdChef, Hats, yeah! The businessman with his hat and briefcase was a priceless symbol for New Yorker cartoonists, etc. The man with the hat was DAD. Where has he gone?
posted by Faze at 8:31 AM on July 5, 2002

Where has he gone?

Heaven's Waiting Room
posted by Ufez Jones at 8:42 AM on July 5, 2002

My dad never wore hats. He wore long, bushy sideburns and sleeveless tees.

My grandfather wore hats once, but now he wears guyaberas and those "old man" jumpers with the claspy belt things. The one-zipper things. I'm pretty sure he's naked under there.

My great grandfather, though. Man! He was a dandy. I'm talking fedoras, silver cigarette case, spats. He was the man.
posted by ColdChef at 9:05 AM on July 5, 2002

Wearing a three-piece, formal suit every day can lead to people feeling more like they're leading a different life at work. Almost like it's a transformation when they get into costume. They can check their normal ethics at the door and subscribe to a different way of life at the office.

For many people, "checking their normal ethics at the door" would probably be a desirable thing.
posted by kindall at 9:05 AM on July 5, 2002

I wonder if it would help if we were all just issued (for hourly-wage) or obliged to buy (for salaried professional) uniforms for work.

OTOH, Judging from some of the stories I hear from friends and family in the military, it probably wouldn't do a damn bit of good where blatant greed is involved. There's not much of that kind of motiviation in the service (unless you're a flag-rank officer who's trying to land a job with a defense contractor after you retire).
posted by alumshubby at 10:08 AM on July 5, 2002

I wish I could wear a hat. - ColdChef

Oh, and gloves...I wish the styles of the 40's would make a comeback for ladies. I look fabu in 1940's fashions. Can't wear a darn thing designed today...for designers seem to think that women should look like 12 year old boys...but the 40's...oh my, those were some magnificent women's clothes. And the hats...oh, the hats. I adore hats. I have an astounding collection of hats...and I wear them periodically, but I get odd stares quite a bit....especially if I wear the giant Mae West type hats, with the feathers and the brims too wide for most doors. :)
posted by dejah420 at 10:30 AM on July 5, 2002

I wear a Stetson Fedora, and I look amazingly froody.

I hope it starts a comeback, as I would like to find my hats in graded sizes, instead of S/M/L/Whoa-Nelly-your-head-is-big.....
posted by dwivian at 10:53 AM on July 5, 2002

After WWII (the 1940s) fashion designers started to celebrate the femine hour-glass form. WWII was a very masculine and dark time and culture turned its back on that to celebrate femine aspects. This culminated in the late 1960s with Twiggy, the boyish girl. Progress or not is hard to say.
posted by stbalbach at 11:10 AM on July 5, 2002

in other news, a columnist from the Washington Post is really scraping the bottom of its barrell.
posted by Satapher at 11:16 AM on July 5, 2002

Methinks this columnist's eyes would buggle after paying a visit to Alcoa (former home of Treasury Sec'y Paul O'Neill) where business casual dress is de rigeur for all but the most uptight of the executivistas. Even the normally staid corporate lawyer factions are all Dockers and golf shirts (men and women alike) or little shift dresses from The Gap (mainly just the women). And everyone from file clerk to CEO works in the same size employee pod. (Crazy commie aluminum makers.) Knowing the standards of friends in the aforementioned corporate legal department, I'd imagine that the corporate "ethic" is pretty well cemented there, no matter what the minions are wearing.

I have an astounding collection of hats...and I wear them periodically, but I get odd stares quite a bit....

Dejah, I keep telling you that you need to come and hang out with me, and this time I mean it! We can walk around in hats and give odd stares back at the people who don't get it.
posted by Dreama at 11:26 AM on July 5, 2002

Not my observation.

Of course, as someone who wears shorts, t-shirts and flip-flops (when I decide to wear shoes...), my observation is that the suit wearing types (marketing, etc.) are the ones who seem to have the lowest objection to lying for their own needs. Yeah, I know, marketing is that way everywhere.

The day I have to wear a suit to work is the day I go into another line of work.
posted by hadashi at 11:35 AM on July 5, 2002

Dejah, I keep telling you that you need to come and hang out with me, and this time I mean it! - by Dreama

Heh, I love fall in Pennsylvania...I might take you up on it some time. Couldn't you just see the confusion at the airport when the security people have to search the bag o hats. :)

On preview...the spell checker tries to change my name to Death, and your name to Drama...and I'm thinking we have the makings of a great comic book there...The Many Hats of Death and Drama... :)
posted by dejah420 at 12:09 PM on July 5, 2002

I would read that comic, but only if you could hat goneill, too. (who spell check renders either "goner" or "gorilla")
posted by ColdChef at 12:25 PM on July 5, 2002

(who spell check renders either "goner" or "gorilla")

Why not combine the two to make it "Gonerilla"? It's got a great ring to it.
posted by Ufez Jones at 1:07 PM on July 5, 2002

And, in spanish it would pronounced exactly like Gonnerhea :)
posted by Ufez Jones at 1:08 PM on July 5, 2002

Gonerilla...ya know, I know there's a joke there...but darned if I can think of one that won't make goneill hunt me down and hit me with pointed sticks. :)
posted by dejah420 at 3:32 PM on July 5, 2002

And, in spanish it would pronounced exactly like Gonnerhea

Good lord, was I drunk at work? I don't remember being....

Oh well, it should have gone...

And, in Spanish, it would be pronounced almost exactly like Gonorrhea.
posted by Ufez Jones at 3:47 PM on July 5, 2002

I look amazingly froody

Speaking of pronunciation, anyone else notice that this word (which I think is a Douglas-Adamsism) only works in print? When you try to say it while speaking, it sounds like 'fruity' and pretty much ruins the effect one was trying to achieve...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:18 PM on July 5, 2002

The one British tabloid where you're expected to turn up to work in a suit is the Daily Mail. It has a stricter dress code than most of the broadsheets, even the Torygraph. You be the judge.
posted by riviera at 7:37 PM on July 5, 2002

(ok, I was at my parents, and their computer was slower than molasses, and I was trying to mack on one of my little brother's friends, so I was away, and here my name is discussed by one and all...)

try spell checking my real name: Gráinne?

variations of grin and grime, which is quite accurate, I must say.
posted by goneill at 7:49 AM on July 8, 2002

I'm glad I live in a jeans and t-shirts office. Go dot-coms!
posted by Foosnark at 10:05 AM on July 8, 2002