July 12, 2002

8:02 AM

Another Cat Killer Wins"As a property owner, you have a right to do as you please and you have the right to protect it" In Coeur d' Alene, ID, accused cat poisoner Dale Crooks Jr. is acquitted of feeding tuna mixed with antifreeze to the neighbor's cats. What seems most remarkable to me, though, is that everyone is calling the plaintiffs' lawyer a publicity seeker and the cats' owners troublemakers. There must be more to the story than is printed here. Either that, or small town dwellers in Idaho REALLY hate cats.
posted by faceonmars (36 comments total)

Or they really hate overzealous prosecutors.
posted by rcade at 8:09 AM on July 12, 2002

Of course, some people just kill their OWN cats....
posted by rushmc at 8:15 AM on July 12, 2002

"He never intended to kill those animals. He's obviously sorry."

I guess he meant to buy that non-poisonous antifreeze. Whoops!
posted by interrobang at 8:18 AM on July 12, 2002

rcade:
Can you explain why this is overzealous? The people in the article seemed to have the same feeling... but unless I'm missing something, this guy put out poisoned tuna to kill his neighbors cats, and poisoning animals is a crime, no?
posted by malphigian at 8:22 AM on July 12, 2002

If someone were to poison my cat, their dog would certainly never shit on anyone's lawn again. Hell, their garage might accidently burn down. These things happen.

The compunction to harm others' pets stems, I believe, from a history of not having one's actions have the appropriate consequences. A lesson, therefore, would be in order. The court, however, is not a very good teacher. Some things, one must see to personally.
posted by UncleFes at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2002

Either that, or small town dwellers in Idaho REALLY hate cats

Aren't cats considered graven idols or ambassadors of dark magic or something in Idaho?
posted by holycola at 8:38 AM on July 12, 2002

The court, however, is not a very good teacher. Some things, one must see to personally.

Ah, there is the principle upon which the American justice system is founded!
posted by rushmc at 8:40 AM on July 12, 2002

Do we really need this article to tell us the folly of the idea that the entirety of the justice system need be mobilized to show a cat-poisoner the error of his ways, and badly at that?

The point comes one must take personally responsibility for the welfare of one's cats, I think.
posted by UncleFes at 8:50 AM on July 12, 2002

that is, personal responsibility, sorry
posted by UncleFes at 8:50 AM on July 12, 2002

This wouldn't be a problem if some cat owners would take responsibility for their cats and keep them on their property or under their watch at all times. I mean, come on, do dog owners let their dogs roam the neighborhood?
posted by Witold at 8:52 AM on July 12, 2002

Geez, the guy could have at least given them a warning if the cats were *really* that much of a pain in the ass: "I will leave out poison for your cats unless you keep them indoors from now on."

I mean, he could have at least *tried* to handle the situation civilly, eh.
posted by beth at 8:59 AM on July 12, 2002

"do dog owners let their dogs roam the neighborhood?"

Yes, they do. And a "friendly pack" of them recently came to visit me and killed forty of my free-range chickens. And other than shooting them if they come back, the law gives me no recourse.
posted by ewagoner at 9:00 AM on July 12, 2002

I vote for bitch-slappings for all parties. The guy did something cruel to the cats. He should be punished. Cat owners in general seem not to give a damn that maybe their neighbours don't want cats defecating in their kids sandbox or in the garden.
posted by substrate at 9:02 AM on July 12, 2002

substrate: if you're gonna generalize, narrow it down some: "outdoor cat owners in general" etc etc.

we went over outdoor cats vs. indoor cats here on MeFi a while back and I am uninterested in rehashing, but most of the "cat owners in general" that I know keep them inside at all times.
posted by Sapphireblue at 9:16 AM on July 12, 2002

All pet owners should keep their pets on their property or in their control. Hence, my original comment.

But wow, what kind of a sick-minded individual would do such a cruel thing? I pretty much agree with substrate: Bitch slap the cat killer. Bitch slap the cat "owner". Hopefully, that will send the message that neither behavior is acceptable.
posted by Witold at 9:31 AM on July 12, 2002

Can you explain why this is overzealous?

I'm just guessing about why the jury might have acquitted him. It's possible they thought that a felony crime of up to three years imprisonment was excessive for poisoning four cats.
posted by rcade at 9:33 AM on July 12, 2002

As someone who grew up in a small town in Idaho, I can testify that, in my childhood, the torture and killing of cats was a form of recreation. The neighbor kid across the street often bragged of throwing them into burn barrels while on vacation at McCall; other kids bragged of kidnapping them on Halloween and blowing them up with rectally inserted M-80s and I remember being told of a group of kindergarten and younger kids killed a kitten by throwing it up into the air over a concrete sidewalk--and going unpunished when it was discoverd. Oh, they were a wonderful lot there, I tell ya...

I, myself, was in a car at the age of fifteen when one "friend" told another to hit that cat. And he did... I was numb, speechless and to my great shame to this very day, I said nothing then. I walked back to pick up the cat from the street where we hit it. That is an image I will never forget.

I brought it up with the friend who was driving the car that day some decades later. He didn't remember it, denied it could have happened--now that is the sort of memory most anyone with any conscience would repress. He's a very kind and loving grown up and would never do something like that as an adult. Hell, he wouldn't have done it then, had it not been for that little shitweasel Dennis Carson goading him on and then laughing in glee when it was done.

People there would never do anything like that to a dog but cats? Open season. I doubt it has changed all that much there--or is that different anywhere else in small town America. The average life span of an outdoor cat is something like 2.5 years, I believe-- keep my cat indoors...
And what UncleFes said, should soeone hurt my cat.

Test question: how many of you would find the killing of a neigthbor's dog more heinous than the killing a of neighbor's cat? Be honest. I think there is a sliding scale here.
posted by y2karl at 10:06 AM on July 12, 2002

rcade: I agree that 3 years, or even any jail time would be over the top for this... but as you said, "up to". Give him a small fine, maybe some community service, all done.

If there is a law that requires people to keep their pets on their property, then also fine the cat owners. If not, lobby to pass one.

I still don't get why this case seems so frivilous to people. No matter how little you value cats, its clearly not legal to poison them, right? So, they went after the guy, just like any petty criminal would be. Should they skip DWI cases, shoplifting, soliciting sex, and other petty crimes too because they could be "going after pedophiles"?
posted by malphigian at 10:21 AM on July 12, 2002

Test question answer: I think it's equally abhorrant to kill a neighbor's dog as it is to kill a neighbor's cat.

And while I do have some pangs of guilt over it, I keep both my cats inside just in case some one in our neighborhood, or students at the middle school across the street, don't share my feelings.

(As an aside: In response to the last thread about indoor/outdoor cats, and a lot of rushmc's points about keeping cats inside which I agree with to a point, I decided to let my older cat outside with me while I was doing some yard work. She lasted about one minute. A car turned down our street and she flew back into the house, ears back, whole body almost flat to the ground, and began frantically pawing at our apartment door until I let her in. She now watches outside world from the safety of the windowsill, and we're both pretty content with the arrangement.)
posted by jennyb at 10:33 AM on July 12, 2002

This wouldn't be a problem if some cat owners would take responsibility for their cats and keep them on their property or under their watch at all times.

Cats fall into two categories. Ones that have never experienced the outside and don't know what they are missing, and formerly ferral felines that become uncontrollable if not allowed to exercise their innate and ingrained behavior.
posted by machaus at 10:37 AM on July 12, 2002

I have two dogs, my neighbor has a cat. Their cat is on a leash outside.

My dogs are in a fenced yard. They do scrap through the fence on occasion, the cat pawing underneath and my dogs going nuts.

Responsible pet owners.

What bothers me is we have a green belt behind our house. Where dogs are allowed. It is not however an off leash area, but morons treat it as such. Morons because they cannot control their dogs and therefore should never have their dogs off leash.

Mine are always leashed. Of course they are little ankle biters and it is for their safety. :-)
posted by Mondo at 10:39 AM on July 12, 2002

I still don't get why this case seems so frivilous to people.

situation a: annoyed with neighbors pet because it gets in your yard and causes damage.

solution a: kill pet with poison.

situation b: annoyed with neighbor for killing your pet.

solution b: kill their child with poison.

that should teach them a lesson about proportion.
posted by lescour at 10:40 AM on July 12, 2002

malphigian: oops. i forgot to include in my post that i didn't find anything frivilous about trying to bring the guy to court. i just wouldn't have gone to the police myself.
posted by lescour at 10:46 AM on July 12, 2002

Cats fall into two categories. Ones that have never experienced the outside and don't know what they are missing, and formerly ferral felines that become uncontrollable if not allowed to exercise their innate and ingrained behavior.

Not true, machaus. I've a kitty who spent her first few years outside til she was hit by a car. Doesn't go out anymore. Doesn't seem bothered by the fact at all.

i will not rehash the last thread
i will not rehash the last thread
i will not rehash the last thread
posted by Sapphireblue at 11:08 AM on July 12, 2002

Ironically, my childhood cat lived about fifteen years as a free-roaming indoor/outdoor cat. The cat I last had was strictly indoor, and didn't even last a year before something snatched it off my third-story deck. (that, or it was stupid enough to try jumping!)

Any future cat I own (can one really own a cat) will be strictly indoors, except for when we go for a walk on the leash. That always attracts a lot of attention... (good way to get dates!)
posted by five fresh fish at 11:18 AM on July 12, 2002

I'll have to try the cat-on-a-leash thing, for the ladies. I've found so far that most people are just charmed enough by the cat's name alone, which is "Boing".
posted by interrobang at 11:21 AM on July 12, 2002

"As a property owner, you have a right to do as you please and you have the right to protect it"

Does that give property owners the right to grow marijuana on their property, and shoot the cops that try to bust the operation?

No?

Odd, that.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:34 AM on July 12, 2002

What kept birds from getting poisoned? Under the migratory bird protection act this jerk could have received in federal court a $100,000 fine and one year in the slam for killing with bait, and that is under a "know or should have known" standard. Heavier punishment for killing a bird of prey.
posted by Mack Twain at 11:37 AM on July 12, 2002

"As a property owner, you have a right to do as you please and you have the right to protect it"

I'll use that defense when I give his kid some poisoned candy.

Cat's that escape a yard (which is inevitable) are harmless. Don't do something so ridiculous as compare them with wild dogs running around.

If a neighbor of mine ever did that to my cat, the rest of his time living there would be miserable for him. Broken windows, flat tires, ruined paint jobs....
posted by eas98 at 11:40 AM on July 12, 2002

i will not rehash the last thread

you're right sapphireblue, I over-simplified... bottom line is that stray cats that are rescued from being raised in the wild are very hard to convert to an entirely indoor lifestyle.
posted by machaus at 11:50 AM on July 12, 2002

We have cats running all over our city neighborhood. Many are strays. I mean, I like cats and all, but some folks in my family are terribly allergic, so when I find them sleeping on my lawn furniture or perched on my front porch, they are loudly shooed away. Of course, they always come back.

The good side to this is that I have never seen a mouse in our house, ever, and yes, I am fair-minded enough to silently thank the cats for that.
posted by drinkcoffee at 12:10 PM on July 12, 2002

Eas98, I'm on your side. My pidgeon-owning next-door neighbour is constantly telling me that UK law doesn't actually recognise ownership of cats. I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm constantly telling him if my cats ever go missing I'll burn every fucking one of his pidgeon lofts to the ground.

I dunno which one did it but they've already had his race winner, and another was rescued from my bathroom unharmed about a month or so ago. :)
posted by vbfg at 12:11 PM on July 12, 2002

But Nelson, who was just as bothered by Poutre's and Kolb's cats, said Crooks shouldn't have had to apologize, since they let their cats roam free through the neighborhood. The cats would urinate and defecate in neighbor's yards and flower beds, urinate in people's cars when the windows were rolled down and even try to get into their homes, Nelson said.

The article also talks about how he did warn the neighbors, which I'm guessing means he didn't just suddenly poisonthe cats spur of the moment style. Honestly, if I had cat piss all over my car when I woke up in the morning, I probably wouldn't be too happy about it either. Sure, killing all the cats is a bit extreme, but what other options did this guy have? I would guess that he probably tried asking repeatedly that his neighbors keep their cats under control, etc. and no one listened to him.

As a question about the value of animal life, I've always thought about this one: if a car is about to hit a) your dog/cat/pet or b) someone else's baby, and you have the option to save one and only one, which one do you save? I always think it's ridiculous to even consider saving your pet over a human baby, but I'm surprised to find that people often choose the pet.
posted by swank6 at 1:08 PM on July 12, 2002

Well, yes, as much as I like animals, I have to say that I would choose to save the baby. But I LIKE babies. Make it a grownup, and then get specific about WHICH grownup, and my answer might change.
posted by JanetLand at 2:40 PM on July 12, 2002

Sheeyit, yah. Like a certain user with the initials "PP" just might, after one of his bigoted posts, might come second to a freakin' earthworm if I were having to choose...
posted by five fresh fish at 4:19 PM on July 12, 2002

This seems a little odd. Just because something is on your land does not mean you can kill it (unless you're in Texas). If someone comes onto your land without permission, you are not allowed to murder them. In Europe, this also applies to animals.
posted by wackybrit at 4:20 PM on July 12, 2002