July 17, 2002

1:01 AM

Palestine. Dying to live.One hesitates to open once more the Palestine-Israel can of worms here, but this ad campaign is interesting in & of itself and because of the response itâ??s getting (on little green footballs, where I found it). The campaign itself is pretty well-done (i.e., the posters seem professional), and probably doesn’t mesh with most people’s idea of Pro-Palestinian propaganda in it’s sober understatement and use of (predominantly) Western icons to make it’s point. Also, the characterization that the campaign is designed to glorify martyrdom seems to be a projection by the viewer—I don’t get that at all from the posters themselves or the site (admittedly, some racist comments have made their way into the Dying2Live feedback page, but the same can be said of some of the comments on the lgf comments page). Am I missing something?
posted by sherman (35 comments total)

The appallingly hateful (and often racist) comments in that Little Green Footballs thread are sickening. I'm physically feeling nauseous after perusing the thread filled with small-minded rabidly rightwing ranting. :P

I don't get the 'promoting martyrdom' feeling from the campaign at all. Its spotlighting the feeling of a death of hope, a death of opportunity... the death of a future that characterize the circumstances of living in the Occupied Territories, and how neither hope nor opportunity nor a future will return to the Palestinian people until Israel leaves. Palestine is dying, and the aspirations of its children will never have the chance to be realized as long as the Occupation continues.
posted by SenshiNeko at 1:49 AM on July 17, 2002

'...the aspirations of its children...'

SenshiNeko, do you think this ad accurately portrays the aspirations of Palestine's children? To be like Einstein, a Jew? Lennon, an atheist? Martin Luther King, an advocate of non-violence and racial reconciliation? Picasso, who painted the unclothed human form?

Or is this ad carefully crafted for the consumption of the West, telling us those things we want to hear, flattering us with our own legends and heroes?

How would these supposed aspirations play in Palestine, do you think? Do you imagine these kids' parents, teachers, and clergy would approve of them? The only one that is believable is the girl who is said to want to be like Umm Kulthum. And even Umm Kulthum would be beaten in many parts of the Arab world today for not wearing the hijab.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 3:17 AM on July 17, 2002

These aspirations are credible. It's precisely this level of sophistication and westernistation in Palestinian culture that makes other Arabs so suspicious of them - and unhelpful towards them.
posted by grahamwell at 3:54 AM on July 17, 2002

To judge all Palestinians by the actions of the suicide bomber - that's how Sharon would like it to be and pretty much how it is.

If anybody should suggest differently, then it's up to Slithy_Tove and others to question such 'misinformation' - can't trust these devious Arabs can you?
posted by niceness at 4:29 AM on July 17, 2002

Mr Niceness: most Arabs are not terrorists; most terrorists are Arabs. Does it matter if you family gets killed by the the minority bad ones? See Amnesty Internationmal's very recent report that such suicide bombings against civilians represent crimes against humanity.
posted by Postroad at 4:33 AM on July 17, 2002

I'm inclined to go with Slithy on this one - each of the icons used except Umm go against teachings in the Koran. So, they may aspire but can never be.

More likely, they'd like to trade on physical likenesses of our heros. Which is an interesting tack, but dishonest.

If the palestinian kids want to grow up to be those people, great, let's get them to start telling their elders to stop shooting up buses, or should I say, planting bombs, shooting up the unarmored tops of buses, and then when the civilians are scrambling for cover, shoot the civilians while wearing Israeli military uniforms. Because a people who will do that to Jewish civilians will do it to their own civilians when they run out of Jews.
posted by swerdloff at 5:01 AM on July 17, 2002

Postroad,

most terrorists are Arabs
Hasty generalisation - without proof it becomes inflammatory nonsense which is exactly the misinformation that I was posting about.

suicide bombings against civilians represent crimes against humanity
Absolutely
posted by niceness at 5:18 AM on July 17, 2002

Slithy_Tove: To be like Einstein, a Jew? To be like Einstein a Physicist.
Atheists: note how many of the parties in this list are Marxist or Marxist-Leninist, a political affiliation that correlates well with atheism. As for non-violence, here's an example.
Women's rights in Palestine: the situation is better than in most other Arab countries (though far from ideal). Note the lack of the hijab in these writers and artists.
Do you imagine these kids' parents, teachers, and clergy would approve of them? Here's a test: go to practically any major US university and see how many Palestinian (not to mention Arab in general) undergraduate and graduate students you can find studying anything from Particle Physics to Fine Arts... a majority of these kids are supported by their parents despite the obvious financial stress it often causes them.
It is exactly at this stereotyping that the campaign is aimed at.
posted by talos at 5:26 AM on July 17, 2002

Swerdloff, your assumptions are just that - assumptions:

each of the icons used except Umm go against teachings in the Koran

I wouldn't want my aspirations (as a UK citizen) based on whether the bible says it's ok - but then all UK citizens are christian just like all Palestinians are muslim, aren't they?

More likely, they'd like to trade on physical likenesses of our heros. Which is an interesting tack, but dishonest.

Which is a guess on your part. Which you then decide is dishonest. That's not reasoning it's called 'making it up' - it's also stereotyping, patronising, arrogant and ignorant.

You're suggesting that all Palestinians should be judged by the actions of suicide bombers which amounts to collective responsibility, which is just the sort of ill-informed and de-humanised way that suicide bombers justify their actions.
posted by niceness at 5:33 AM on July 17, 2002

Postroad: most Arabs are not terrorists; most terrorists are Arabs

I'd like some proof to back this up please. Just a link to some basic statistics will do.

AS for the campaign, it's a clever approach. Swerdloff thinks it dishonest [a dishonest ad? omigod!] but the messages are simple enough to follow.

Using 'western' heroes makes for an easily understood ad for western folks. And aspiring to be the Palestinian version of [insert hero here] is a good aspiration. I read enough about how the Arab world has fallen behind the West in science, freedom &c. so when something comes out of that same world showing Arabs aspiring to be scientists & advocates of freedom &c. surely that's a good thing? Or are you damned if you do, damned if you don't?

And let's not assume every Arab is a muslim who follows the absolute word of the Koran. If you do then you're letting the hard-liners set the agenda which is not really a good starting point.

Finally, Little Green Footballs. Not the best place to start the day if you are a lover of life. Don't do it kids...

[On preview, what talos & niceness said too]
posted by i_cola at 5:47 AM on July 17, 2002

"SenshiNeko, do you think this ad accurately portrays the aspirations of Palestine's children?"

I wasn't referring specifically to the 'aspirations' suggested in the advertising campaign... the exact parallels to Lincoln and Einstein and Shakespeare may well have been 'manufactured' - but it's an effective way to make the point (in 'Western' terms) that these children should be allowed the opportunity to achieve their aspirations, even if they're as mundane as becoming a farmer or a factory worker or a merchant. While Palestinian farmland and orchards continue to be summarily annexed for Israeli colonial settlements, while Palestinian factories lie idle and skilled Palestinian workers are left unemployed by Israeli imposition of incessant arbitrary curfews, while stores are emptied of goods by Israeli economic warfare and transportation blockages... why should children aspire to even these jobs if they see their mothers and fathers fail at them within the crush of the Occupation? And if they aspire to 'something better', to further themselves through education... well, schools and universities are shut down, their books and records ransacked by Israeli soldiers, and their teachers and faculty arrested.

And what of an aspiration to basic security? Of being free of the fear an Israeli tank will knock down your home along with those of your neighbors, free of the fear an Apache or F-16 will launch missiles into your neighborhood at any time, free of the fear that patrols of soldiers will shoot you while walking down your own street... how many Palestinian children aspire only to feel safe when they lie in bed at night? Palestine is dying, and the Occupation is killing its children's hopes, its people's opportunities, and its national future - just as the far-right zionist zealots currently holding power in Israel intend.

Unfortunately, this is one of those intractable issues where it seems the common ground gets vanishingly narrow, like the polarization that abortion or gun control also seem to engender here in the US. Sometimes it feels that either someone believes the Occupation is an illegal and unethical and immoral blight on the world's conscience and there will be no peace without withdrawal, or someone fully supports any and all measures to 'destroy the terrorist infrastructure' and subjugate the Palestinians to Israeli dominance for perpetuity... and efforts to spark an appreciation of the viewpoint from or situation of 'the other side' are destined to wither and die in the middle ground between opposing camps. But at least the people that created this advertising campaign are trying to do so, and without inflammatory rhetoric.

Which is more than I can say for many of the entries by so-called 'patriotic Americans' in the LGF thread... slurs, derogation, invective, and calls to shut down the website and/or spam their creators with hate email and comments.
posted by SenshiNeko at 6:00 AM on July 17, 2002

Also, the characterization that the campaign is designed to glorify martyrdom seems to be a projection by the viewer - I don't get that at all from the posters themselves or the site

I agree wholeheartedly with the main message (and apparent thrust) of the campaign: Palestinian civilians are people like you and me living in an oppressive environment that stymies dreams. However, i think the tagline Dying to live is tasteless (at best) in light of the suicide attacks by Palestinian militants on civilians. It doesn't take too much imagination to see how this could be construed as an endorsement of the current wave of bombings, and i think these posters would be more effective if it was absent. If the authors didn't intend that association, their choice was unfortunate; if the association was intentional, i think their actions are irresponsible.
posted by astirling at 6:07 AM on July 17, 2002

Postroad, we've been through this before. The world is full of terrorists, from the Shining Path, the IRA, the Tamil Tigers, the Baader-Meinhof Gang, November 17, and many more. Most are not Arab.

talos, thanks for the links. The Palestinian group advocating non-violence is especially hopeful. At least those voices are out there, and not being suppressed. I'm surprised to see modern Palestinian women bareheaded. This was more common in the Arab world fifty years ago when Umm Kulthum sang, and even twenty years ago, but has become rare with the rise of Wahhabism. I work every day with people from the Arab world who have come to the US for graduate education. It's no secret that Arabs admire Western technology and want to learn it. But I still wonder what the reaction of most Palestinian parents would be if their kid put up a poster of Lennon, Picasso, Einstein, Charlie Chaplin, or Mother Theresa in his room? If this ad campaign plastered posters of these images onto walls in Palestine, would they be accepted, or defaced?

niceness, suicide bombings speak so loudly they drown out all other conversation. If Palestinians who believe in non-violence (MLK), acceptance of Jews (Einstein), and freedom of expression (Picasso) want the West to hear them, and believe that they, not the bombers, are representative the Palestinian people, they must speak up, which by and large they have not been doing. They must not celebrate when their children kill themselves and others. They must not teach their toddlers to glory in martyrdom. They must pressure their government to arrest members of the suicide bombers' supporting organizations and the bomb-makers. There must be a Palestinian peace movement, like the Israeli peace movement. There must be full page ads in the NYT that condemn suicide bombing. There must be street demonstrations against the bombers. There must, in short, be evidence that the majority of Palestinians are not homicidal fanatics, do not support homicidal fanatics, and are seriously interested in peace.

With the possible exception of the peace movement, I don't see those things happening.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 6:47 AM on July 17, 2002

"Dying to live" was clearly chosen to promote suicide bombing with the Palestinians, and pity with the US audience. Wrong either way you look at it. Its manipulative in the extreme. No matter what the isreals may or may not be doing, there is no excuse for deliberately targeting civilians and sending women and children off to die with bombs strapped to themselves.

I rarely agree with the LGF sites readers, but I do read it to inform myself. They've often pointed to Arab News sites that give statistics on the approval rate for suicide bombings and photos of small children dressed up as military outfits and suicide squads. This is a norm, wether you want to admit to it or now.
posted by madmanz123 at 6:50 AM on July 17, 2002

most Arabs are not terrorists; most terrorists are Arabs.

Can we please ban Pantload already? He keeps saying the same bullshit.

And pretty please no links to LGF? I'll go so far as to characterize that site as shit as well. It's sooooo far gone at this point that it borders on group dementia. If the FBI wants to investigate crazy militant cults, start right there.
posted by donkeyschlong at 7:11 AM on July 17, 2002

Bassem Eid has been pushing for a non-violent intifada, but I haven't seen much about it recently.
posted by mblandi at 7:20 AM on July 17, 2002

do you think this ad accurately portrays the aspirations of Palestine's children? To be like Einstein, a Jew? Lennon, an atheist? Martin Luther King, an advocate of non-violence and racial reconciliation? Picasso, who painted the unclothed human form?

I had the unique and wonderful opportunity to work at Seeds of Peace several years ago, and I think this add very accurately portrays the aspirations of the Palestinian children I knew at that time.

How would these supposed aspirations play in Palestine, do you think? Do you imagine these kids' parents, teachers, and clergy would approve of them?

Yes, I do imagine they would.

Look, yes, admittedly the Seeds of Peace group is somewhat self-selecting - its seems unlikely that any child who's parents were hardcore fanatics would allow their child to attend (although I did know some children there who were a filled with hate as anyone I have ever heard of), but the vast majority of Palestinian families just want to live and raise their children in peace and safety. These families, for the most part, dream the same dreams as middle class American families do.

One child who sticks in my mind particularly was quite short, and the most inept basketball player you've ever met in your life. His goal and dream, however, was to be as great a basketball player as Michael Jordan - a goal toward which he practiced with great dedication - the kind of fixation only a fourteen year old boy can have. He thought, you see, that if he could become the first Palestinian player in the NBA, then he would have enough money to buy for his extended family and all their friends and neighbors a "beautiful piece of land, a safe place, where we can raise goats and my father can have an orchard". (I can hear him saying these words to me to this very day.) He had quite a detailed list of who he would invite to this safe haven, how many houses they would need, how much land to farm, etc. What has caused this young gentleman to remain in my mind, though, is the fact that, by the end of his stay with us, he had added the extended families of two of his fellow campers into his master list - two Israeli campers. Because, he told me, they too needed a safe place to live.

Don't let anyone tell you this is all about religion. That's a smokescreen. The battle between Israel and Palestine is a battle over orchards and houses and land to raise goats on. Its about fighting to have a safe place to raise your family - for both sides.
posted by anastasiav at 7:58 AM on July 17, 2002

mblandi -- thanks for a heartening link. Bassem makes his point quite effectively.

I think that the posters are well done and, while I agree wholeheartedly with part of the campaign, I do disagree with their sloganeering. The "Dying to Live" tagline is aimed squarely at westerners. We're supposed to see that the Palestinian children have aspirations and hopes which they do and I support in every possible situation and decision that I make. We're also supposed to see the suicde bombings by children as justifiable. They're just "dying to live". And this is where I part ways with the campaign.

There's no way that I condone suicide murders. Even if cute Palestinian children look like famous people.
posted by zpousman at 8:06 AM on July 17, 2002

In my defesne: count the terrorists by name, background in the past year...not dipping into the past but this year.
Note: today's NY Times carries a full-page ad by American Jews with terms for a peace accord. Guess what: it is what had been offered in '48 and turned down
Don;t mean to get back on this topic but I am willing to guess that most of those letters at the site are faked! Ok, my bias. Where then the flood of anti-site letters?
posted by Postroad at 8:08 AM on July 17, 2002

Postroad, take it outside.
posted by mathowie at 8:18 AM on July 17, 2002

Approximately 45 to 50 per cent of the total Palestinian population is living below the poverty line of $2 per person per day, while per capita real income declined by 12 percent in 2000, and an additional 19 per cent in 2001. source.

Yeah, I can't wait for the Palestinians take out full page ads in the New York Times, too.

This series of advertisements states "Help us break the silence.� Help Palestine live in peace." I don't even understand how this mean crew translates this statement into something awful.

Pro-Israeli Americans want a proclamation that "Palestine wants peace." And now that someone has tried, including extending an olive branch of respect to famous Jews, it's viciously attacked? Sure advertising is slick, and useless. But don't these people think their foaming anti-Arab sentiment sets back the path of peace and understanding?

Of course these ads talk about dying. Much like Israeli children, these are children in a war zone who have little hope of any kind of normal life.

Why don't people who are interested in Israel/Palestine do something productive? Why not donate to apolitical humanitarian aid in the area? Why spend your energy repeating stereotypes and being outraged? Can we get our friends at little green footballs to work for Seeds of Peace for a year?
posted by RJ Reynolds at 8:22 AM on July 17, 2002

We're also supposed to see the suicde bombings by children as justifiable. They're just "dying to live".
In which case showing kids that aspire to do something important with their lives is rather contradictory- especially the "Ahmad yearns to be Ghandi" poster. Please, let's be reasonable for a second eh?
posted by talos at 8:47 AM on July 17, 2002

"a Jew? Lennon"
is that the model without obligatory angst?


"Shining Path, the IRA, the Tamil Tigers, the Baader-Meinhof Gang, November 17"
hmmm, got the IRA making apologies. Baader-dumkopf are plotting to take over the kaffee haus' on the Unter der Linden. The T2 and rest don't have the offensive capability for two pistols and a smoke grenade.

Palestinians who believe in non-violence (MLK), acceptance of Jews (Einstein), and freedom of expression (Picasso)

ha-ha. we can basically thank Einstein for the bomb. MLK did not always believe in non-violence and Picasso was a hateful 2nd rate painter and a third rate poet.

come on folks- 'dying to live'?

"...in the right manner, cruel to be kind..."

'counter' this senshineko, you wouldn't even make good pocket litter

"most terrorists are Arabs" while this is not really true, most are trained (post 89') in arabic countries.
posted by clavdivs at 8:49 AM on July 17, 2002

Hrm, "Dying to live" isn't really that great of a tagline, IMO, and I think it does imply suicide bombing. I'm pro Palestinian and I still think so.

Secondly the idea that these kids parents or their community leaders would be against this because Einstein was a Jew or because they promote music or whatever is racist and stupid. Only the most hard-line talibanistc Islamic would have a problem with this ad campaign, and lets not forget about 8% of the Palestinians are Christians anyway, and are treated the same as their Muslim countrymen by the Israelis.
posted by delmoi at 9:00 AM on July 17, 2002

http://www.freespeech.org/fsitv/ramfiles/Palestine_roughcut1.ram
*[real audio stream] - worth watching.

News item - July 15 2002

Sabra/Chatila

Food for extending some thoughts or expanding beyond narrow viewpoints. Just who or what constitutes propoganda?

Also.
I thought the ads were pointed and thought provoking. People have a right to live and dream, feel safe on their own land and in their homes, businesses or schools, but sometimes I wonder about those calling themselves humane, yet use different sets of values when applying these ideals.
posted by qui at 9:01 AM on July 17, 2002

Hey anastasiav, I also worked with Seeds of Peace (but not in Maine, in Israel) and I can second what you said. The children I met on both sides were pretty much absolutely normal (besides the whole war thing, of course). And kids I met outside the program may not have been as 'liberal' or interested in peace, but were pretty 'normal' themselves. The very reason this ad exists can be seen by some of the responses on this site, and especially on the vile Little Green Footballs response boards. It exists because much of America does not see Palestinians as human beings, but as a society of sick Muslim fanatics who are something less than human. This is essentially the view that the extreme, pro-ethnic cleansing right of Israel would like the world to believe. Luckily there are enough people who instantly see through this, and others who actually investigate the history, but this campaign is aimed at those who never stopped to consider the fact that Palestinian children are just like all other children in the world at their core, and that they don't deserve to die.

And also, for those who say there is no Palestinian non-violence, every day for a Palestinian who is not involved in a terror group (the vast majority) is non-violent resistance. Getting up in the morning and trying to have a life under collective punishment is a form of non-violent resistance.
posted by cell divide at 9:04 AM on July 17, 2002

i have said it before and i'll say it again (no doubt);
the amount of terrorism enacted by individuals or non-governmental organisations is inconsequential in comparison to state sponsored terrorism.

Slithy_Tove - 'If Palestinians who believe in non-violence (MLK), acceptance of Jews (Einstein), and freedom of expression (Picasso) want the West to hear them, and believe that they, not the bombers, are representative the Palestinian people, they must speak up, which by and large they have not been doing. They must not celebrate when their children kill themselves and others.'

how do you propose that these people get their peaceful message across, considering that much of the press of the northern hemisphere is unlikely to promote such a view?
oh asok, you are too paranoid. there is no zionist conspiracy!
there doesn't need to be, imho. israeli and jewish interests have controling influence in many large companies who pay for advertising in news journals and television programmes (and the media companies themselves). it is not inconceivable that they may have some say in the slant given to news coverage. that is without the vested (government) interest of the entrenched view that one side of this conflict uses terrorism and the other is simply defence. it would not sit well to have bush demanding the resignation of the palestinian leader in the same news bulletin as a report on the human cost of the present occupation. remember american tax-payers fund the israelis to the tune of $8billion a year in military aid.
imagine, for a moment, that the tables are turned. how does the world perceive the us, a country that seems to use violence as it's negotiating tool? where are the american voices of dissent represented in the worlds press? those who do not celebrate at the continuing incarceration of al qaeda suspects without trial. those who do not excuse the 'colateral damage' suffered by the people of afghanistan as a neccessary by-product of war. how does the majority of the world see the average american? do they think that americans are celebrating the deaths of innocents via their war on terrorism? there certainly is a dearth of concern from the whitehouse. also, some people would rather bite their own arm off than admit that they made a mistake.
just think how such opinions have been represented in the american press. i understand that one satirical news show 'politically incorrect' was terminated following a presenter's comment that being a suicide bomber took more courage than operating a remote war.
just how desperate would you have to be to consider being a suicide bomber? with or without coercion.

on preview, what cell divide said. i feel this thread is a breath of fresh air in the usually cloying miasma that surrounds I/P threads. dialogue is the answer. from dialogue comes empathy. the attempt at dehumanisation of the palestian by the majority of the american press indicates a tried and tested propaganda tool in full effect.
i have seen the same thing in the uk as regards the treatment of the ira by the press. nothing good ever came of it. to this day we are fed 'revelations' that the special branch (uk police), mi6, the army and loyalist paramilitaries conspired to kill many irish civilians (un-connected with any republican paramilitaries) who stood up for their rights. this is only 'astonishing' if you consider the government side of the conflict to be morally right, the other wrong.
on i ramble.
posted by asok at 9:36 AM on July 17, 2002

The front page of this site is nice. Anyone read the articles (found under links)? I think they are what the site is really about.
posted by Mack Twain at 10:26 AM on July 17, 2002

Palestinian Arabs seriously interested in peace realize that Israel is their best friend. Unfortunately, Palestinian Arabs educated enough to understand this are in the minority and/or under the thumb of the terrorists.
posted by ParisParamus at 11:56 AM on July 17, 2002

Lennon, an atheist? Martin Luther King, an advocate of non-violence and racial reconciliation? Picasso, who painted the unclothed human form?

There's plenty of all of this in Palestinian culture. Just because the richest and most pro-USA Arab states are at the extremes of cultural and religious backwardness, we mustn't forget how many Arab societies have considerable, real constituencies that are secular, peace- and integration-oriented, etc. Despite the lack of democracy in all these countries, no one with knowledge of the middle class culture of Egypt, Syria, or Iraq (for example) would make the skeptical comment I have cited above. (As for non-violent Palestinian movements, MeFi readers know that there is hope there. I know I cited a few names - Mustafa Barghouthi, e.g. - before.)

To Paris, I would say that, minority or majority, it is remarkable how tenacious the educated strand of Palestinian society is, given so many Israeli efforts targeted to destroy it (especially by closing schools, destroying school buildings, and ending all the economic and intellectual exchanges between somewhat open-minded Israelis and Palestinians that was going on just a few years ago). Every week lately brings fresh news of the struggle of Palestinian political diversity to find ways to express itself.
posted by Zurishaddai at 1:08 PM on July 17, 2002

especially by closing schools, destroying school buildings, and ending all the economic and intellectual exchanges between somewhat open-minded Israelis and Palestinians that was going on just a few years ago

And let's not forget this.

All in the name of stopping terrorism. Which hasn't stopped, but rather has stepped up, but why split hairs when you're being punitive.
posted by donkeyschlong at 1:25 PM on July 17, 2002

On the CBC (Canadian Brodcasting Corp.) tonight, there was an excellent piece on teenagers and their coming trips to the Catholic "World Youth Day". One of the teenagers interviewed was a Palestinian Christians, what struck me (and I admit, I generalize too quickly) was that her main goal was to show other teenagers that "Palestinains want peace . . . we do not want war"... Before that I would have assumed that she would have passed blame for all this on Muslims, but she made it clear that it was (eithe above or below her religion, I don't know) a nationality she identified with...

"I'm hoping that the people I meet would at least talk of us Palestinians as human beings, that we are people, that we are normal people and we would like to enjoy a peaceful life," says Kumsiah. "We would like them to spread this message all over." - http://cbc.ca/news/features/catholic/youngpeople.html


Cool. I was glad to see that.
posted by Jevon at 7:29 PM on July 17, 2002

Jevon: the terrorists, who are the biggest obstacle to another Palestinian state (the first being Jordan) are all, or virtually all Muslims (or at least claim to be). Moreover I suspect most Israelis understand that most Palestinian Arabs are not terrorists.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:02 PM on July 17, 2002

the terrorists...are all, or virtually all Muslims

Though, of course, a secular group like the PFLP was behind the Ze'evi assassination, which had a major impact on the current situation. Granted, now Hamas is ascendant. But the earlier (and continued) influence of the leftist groups proves that this is not a necessary expression of a permanent and unchangeable aspect of who Palestinians are (even in their conflict with Israel).
posted by Zurishaddai at 9:54 PM on July 17, 2002

Heh, anyone else look in the feedback section, they had a letter from someone in the "Jewnited states of america" :P
posted by delmoi at 3:07 AM on July 18, 2002