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Ellen Feiss Apple ad pulled
July 17, 2002 1:29 PM   Subscribe

Ellen Feiss Apple ad pulled reportedly because she seems "too stoned." You decide. I don't know about you, but it seems very "duuude, you're gettin' an apple!"
posted by mathowie (96 comments total)

 
But she's such a charmer!
posted by donkeyschlong at 1:33 PM on July 17, 2002


You better wise up, Ellen Feiss!
posted by websavvy at 1:34 PM on July 17, 2002


Very stoned. If that was the only Mac ad I saw, I would laugh all the way to the PC store.
posted by starvingartist at 1:35 PM on July 17, 2002


Stoned? Most likely. Stupid? Definitely. Great for reinforcing stereotypes? You bet.
posted by insomnyuk at 1:38 PM on July 17, 2002


Incidentally, it was this ad that convinced me to buy an iBook.
Her parents must be so proud.
posted by rocketman at 1:38 PM on July 17, 2002


So stoned. Hot, but stoned.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:39 PM on July 17, 2002


Her eyes are bloodshot as hell. Maybe it was an early photo shoot?
posted by mkelley at 1:39 PM on July 17, 2002


She doesn't seem any less articulate than the average American high school "student."
posted by gazingus at 1:39 PM on July 17, 2002


yeah, i'm with starvingartist. the ad just made me think that she was incompetent, not her pc.

also, apple suggesting nothing happens with their computers to make people "lose" their work is pretty damn hilarious in and of itself. i wouldn't be surprised if the ad was pulled because of worries of repercusions regarding their implying your work was safe on their machines.
posted by dobbs at 1:41 PM on July 17, 2002


HAHA, she looks stoned as hell. Even seems to have bloodshot eyes :P

I remember this happening to me once, actually it was a bit worse. After getting up 2 hours early to write the paper, i finished. Exhausted I leaned forward, you know, to put my head on the desk. Anyway, the case was off my PC and I accidentally hit the power button. Computer just shut off whole, nothing but a blank screen. And no, I hadn't saved.

Anyway, it's not like Macs didn't crash back before OSX, and it's not like PCs do these days with Win2k/XP. So I really don't think this is very fair advertising.
posted by delmoi at 1:42 PM on July 17, 2002


She's like...totally, ya know...stoned out of her little teenaged mind. :) Like, her PC, you know, totally devoured her paper...kinda like she's about to totally, you know, devour a bag of oreos.
posted by dejah420 at 1:45 PM on July 17, 2002


Websavvy, I am screaming with laughter.
posted by nicwolff at 1:46 PM on July 17, 2002


I couldn't believe that they showed that as a lead-in to the keynote speech. At least the Will Farrell one was funny. Left me wanting a parfait rather than a Mac though.
posted by jackiemcghee at 1:47 PM on July 17, 2002


Three front-page Apple posts in one day. With this kind of publicity it's goodbye five-percent market share, hello six!

I'm confused by Apple's latest "Switch" campaign. It's not as if they have investment bankers or tax accountants, or corporate lawyers talking about how they've dumped their PCs. So far I've seen 1) a freelance writer 2) a KCRW DJ 3) a producer of "new media" and now 4) this stoned-chick. It was my impression these were demographics Apple already dominated.
posted by herc at 1:50 PM on July 17, 2002


"I was writing paper...on the PC"

"It was really good paper..."

Way stoned. And like, I'm sure it was really good paper.
posted by mikhail at 1:50 PM on July 17, 2002


Yeah, she sure looks and acts stoned, but she could just be tired.

On a side note, I had to d/l and install quicktime just to view the thing. What a pain! Why do s/w developers think that they have to put icons in the systray AND the quick launch bar AND the desktop? Just for some stupid media player! I blame it all on Real...
posted by internal at 1:54 PM on July 17, 2002


Is Apple's message really now:

Computers for people who don't know what they are doing.

I use Windows, Apple & linux OSs. They all work fine. Why do people turn computer operating systems into a lifestyle choice.

It's like comparing the electrical system of a Ford to that of a Chevy. Who the f cares?
posted by Argyle at 1:57 PM on July 17, 2002


Some people don't like the Switch campaign. I agree with them, though I was impressed by the Windows LAN admin who used a Mac at home, but again, how many people watching the ad know what a Windows LAN is to begin with?
posted by insomnyuk at 2:08 PM on July 17, 2002


Ummm they pulled this ad from where?

I just went to the switch page and she's right there.
posted by bitdamaged at 2:11 PM on July 17, 2002


I liked the ad, she's funny.
posted by zeoslap at 2:12 PM on July 17, 2002


Woo-hoo! More proof that Mac users are smarter!
posted by Chief Typist at 2:13 PM on July 17, 2002


I see it on the Switch site too... That ad is hilarious. As an 18 year old, I can't tell whether they're trying to show someone stoned, or they think that's how teenagers actually are these days.

My favorite parts are the "bleeepbleepbleepblepbleepbleep!" and the "and I was like.... huh?"
posted by swank6 at 2:15 PM on July 17, 2002


Do American kids actually say "I was writing paper"? Cos that sounds like one of the dumbest soundbites I have ever heard. Sure we don't talk about writing papers at all on this side of the Atlantic but how much effort is it going to take to use some kind of article in there. The indefinite one is miniscule.

To me, she sounded like some kind of mungbrain who didn't even know that typing into a computer wasn't the same as typing onto paper using a typewriter.
posted by MUD at 2:15 PM on July 17, 2002


That's a typical student user. Yeah, sure, it's a naive user (there's this thing called "saving" that large numbers of students seem to have difficulty with). What bothers me about the ad is that it might be seen to imply that using Mads mean never having to say "the computer ate my paper," which has rapidly overtaken "my dog Barney ate my paper, so I can't turn it in today."
posted by medievalist at 2:17 PM on July 17, 2002


Er... I take it noone here has actually had a conversation with a high school student in the past ten years? Except maybe with another uptight computer geek? You guys sound like somebody's grandparents...
posted by badstone at 2:22 PM on July 17, 2002


monju_bosatsu: my new hero.

And yes, the subtext of many of these ads are: "if this dingbat doesn't have problems with the machine, surely you can handle it." Which is dangerous, as some have pointed out, but probably effective.

But, if they really pulled this ad, then Apple is lamer than I thought. Shame I like the G4 and OSX so much.
posted by hackly_fracture at 2:23 PM on July 17, 2002


most of it was kinda cute...the "beepbeepbeep....huh?" part especially. the real stoner giveaway is at the end where she silently searches her brain for the word "bummer."
posted by nobody_knose at 2:25 PM on July 17, 2002


Dude... have you ever... like... really looked at your pc?
posted by dong_resin at 2:29 PM on July 17, 2002


When I was in college, one of my roommates was stoned, playing computer games. Meanwhile, not stoned, I was talking to another roommate's visiting sister. She later commented to her brother how nice the other guy seemed, but asked if I was stoned. I also got asked if I was on drugs by the boss in my first office job. I wasn't. Maybe some people just seem stoned?
posted by dmo at 2:31 PM on July 17, 2002


She's way cuter than Noelle Bush from the next thread.
posted by panopticon at 2:31 PM on July 17, 2002


A lot of people don't like the the "Switch" campaign because it is 100% FUD: If you switch to a Mac, your computer will never, ever crash, you will never lose data, it will be the easiest system you've ever used, and so on. Any experienced Mac use can tell you that all of the above claims are demonstrably false, and with the increasing stability of WinXP, those arguments are rapidly being eroded.

Back on topic, I've had conversations with plenty of high school students in the past ten years, and few if any of them (including my younger sister) sounded as incoherent and inebriated as our friend Ellen here.
posted by Danelope at 2:33 PM on July 17, 2002


Oh Zod, she is like totally hott! It is sad that I should think so, being old and all, but look at her. Like a little goddess who needs to save more. Good luck purty little Mac user!
posted by thirteen at 2:40 PM on July 17, 2002


She seems just about like the teenagers that I work with, who - for the most part - aren't stoned. They just seem that way to anyone over 30. :D
posted by Orb at 2:42 PM on July 17, 2002


To be fair, when I first saw the ad, I thought she was just a normal teenager. But now I can't stop "seeing the signs." I'm this close to reporting her to TIPS.

Any experienced Mac use can tell you that all of the above claims are demonstrably false, and with the increasing stability of WinXP, those arguments are rapidly being eroded.

Those ads' claims are overstated, but then so are yours.
posted by donkeyschlong at 2:44 PM on July 17, 2002


I just love her intonation: "I'm Ellen Feiss? And I'm a student?"
posted by arielmeadow at 2:52 PM on July 17, 2002


You better wise up, Ellen Feiss!

Best. Response. Today.
posted by eriko at 2:52 PM on July 17, 2002


I just love her intonation: "I'm Ellen Feiss? And I'm a student?"

Yeah, like, what's with all the damn uptalking these days?...Huh?
posted by Kikkoman at 2:55 PM on July 17, 2002


Looks like it was just a broken link. She's back up on Apple.com, unfortunately. Which is, like......... a bummer.
posted by dansays at 2:57 PM on July 17, 2002


ARRRGH
I juuust caught the Rocky reference.. and to think after doing it for 7yrs (admitidly 8 yrs ago)...I should've caught it quicker...

nH
posted by niteHawk at 3:01 PM on July 17, 2002


dansays: It was not just a broken link. For awhile her picture on the switch page actually linked to the switch page itself, rather than a page with a movie, as the other people's pictures had done. Now it links to the movie page again. It was definitely an intentional change.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 3:03 PM on July 17, 2002


So if I buy a new Mac I, like, get to hang out with stoned high school chicks? That's so cool, right? Oh, but I already have a bunch of Macs...

what a...

bummer.
posted by spilon at 3:11 PM on July 17, 2002


i'd do her just to say i did.
posted by afx114 at 3:24 PM on July 17, 2002


She seems like a Lisa Kudrow character, as played by Sarah Chalke. It was worth reading this thread, though, for thirteen's comment: Like a little goddess who needs to save more.

I'm not sure she's stoned; as noted there are people who just naturally SEEM stoned. And I've known a few. And there are definitely articles in her sentences, they're just schwa'ed practically out of existence. Sort of the sound of a fish gulping for air.
posted by dhartung at 3:24 PM on July 17, 2002


Was it just me, or did it seem like the whole point was for her TO BE stoned? I just assumed that was what they wanted. Hell, all the kids are stoned and lazy these days, right?

Damnit, I remember when all of this wasn't here.
posted by bradth27 at 3:26 PM on July 17, 2002


I'm 50 and the father of a teenager, and I thought it was funny as hell. Oh yeah, and I'm a PC user. too.

Something about the "Mac users are stoners" marketing concept appeals to me. It seems to say "PCs are such a hassle, man. Oh yeah, I could learn all that cryptic Windows stuff, but why bother? I have better things to do."

That seems like a good thing to make people believe if you want them to buy Macs.
posted by norm29 at 3:40 PM on July 17, 2002


Is there confirmation that the ad was actually pulled? Or is the link to the movie on the Apple Switch page just down?
posted by gluechunk at 3:45 PM on July 17, 2002


Left turn warning. Remember that VW Jetta commercial where the couple are driving through then french Quarter and everything they see is moving in sync with the background music? There's no dialog for most of the commercial until the man turns to the woman and says "That was interesting."

That commercial made me feel stoned.
posted by timeistight at 3:54 PM on July 17, 2002


Mac : you can use it even if you're stoned.
posted by crunchland at 3:54 PM on July 17, 2002


So now Mac's are better at running Microsoft Office?

Seems to me that both Operating Systems are likely to respond the same way when you lean your elbow on the delete key while taking a bong hit.

Keyboard buffer overruns are the only reason I can think of for a PC that is in use to have sudden beepage like she described.
posted by srboisvert at 4:13 PM on July 17, 2002


Keyboard buffer overruns are the only reason I can think of for a PC that is in use to have sudden beepage like she described.

Guess you've never had the "move mouse, everything just beeps" type of crash. I used to get it once a month or so using 95. These days (under 2000) it's once every six months or so, but it still happens. I recently changed to a USB mouse, and it hasn't happened since, but that was only a couple of months ago.

Oh, and the most work I ever lost was due to bad UI design in Visual Source Safe. Two weeks of work overwritten by one careless keystroke.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 4:57 PM on July 17, 2002


Apple computers appealing to stoners? Nahhh... Couldn't be...

(That last picture is a screenshot from iTunes 3, which I just downloaded. It was factory-shipped with that category)

You better wise up, Ellen Feiss!

"...Your apple pie don't taste too nice"

Heh. Best. Comment. Ever, websavvy. For those who don't understand...
posted by evanizer at 5:09 PM on July 17, 2002


Apple, smapple, oh to be seventeen again...
posted by Dennis Murphy at 5:12 PM on July 17, 2002


Ariel, have you read Richard Russo's Straight Man? Your question-mark-intoned take on the commercial made me think of the secretary in the book (one of the best characters, I might add).
posted by delfuego at 5:16 PM on July 17, 2002


Um. You know. Like. Stuff?

It wasn't there to start with; I didn't see it when I checked this morning, but it's there now. MacSlash guessed wrong and, it turns out, got it backwards.
posted by mcwetboy at 5:20 PM on July 17, 2002


Can't... stop... watching...
posted by ceiriog at 5:21 PM on July 17, 2002


y'know, I had almost that exact experience: computer ate my paper...only it was a Mac that did it. granted, this was 6 years ago, and the computer was hell old even then (Mac in a Box!)...but I still feel the pain of finally writing all my footnotes, hitting spellcheck, then seeing that goddamn bomb and realizing...shit, I forgot to save! (and no, I wasn't stoned, either.)

prof was very forgiving.

(it was a paper for an asian lit class about the japanese puppet theater of the 1500s.)
posted by epersonae at 5:45 PM on July 17, 2002


and to me, it sounds like she said, "I was writing a paper" - but she sort of swallows the "a".
posted by epersonae at 5:46 PM on July 17, 2002


Stoned or not, that ad is hilarious. I dunno, but if I'm some advertising creative, and I'm working on this campaign, and we shoot this spot, I dang well yell and scream and do everything possible to get them to run it, I tell you, it is so pure, so dang perfect. I mean, let's face it, people (MetaFilter members excepted, natch) buy stuff for really dumb reasons, and computers are no different. Plus, she has that head roll, you know, the way she kind of snakes with her neck after saying, "so it wasn't as good", like, totally nailed. And her inflection. It's a thing of beauty. And her sincerity, so delicately understated. It would be a crime not to share this with the world.
posted by mattpfeff at 6:07 PM on July 17, 2002


imagine if she had kids with Steven the Dell kid...
posted by gyc at 6:26 PM on July 17, 2002


imagine if she had kids with Steven the Dell kid...

"d000d! You're getting ...like, a bong?"
posted by dejah420 at 6:39 PM on July 17, 2002


and to me, it sounds like she said, "I was writing a paper" - but she sort of swallows the "a".

Dude [sorry] I spent five minutes quickly rewinding that part trying to see if she actually says "a", and I think she starts to make the sound [her lips move to make the "a" sound] but it quickly dissipates and goes right into "paper." I don't think she even got that sound out. I think the hard "eeng" sound [of writing] next to the hard "paa" sound [or paper swallows up the soft sound that an "a" makes.

Either way, I think taking sound clips from this commercial and making a techno mix would be awesome. Dude.
posted by plemeljr at 7:01 PM on July 17, 2002


I would laugh all the way to the PC store.

[oily salesman's grin]

Hello, mr starvingartist, how can I help you today? and what's so damn funny?

[/oily salesman's grin]
posted by jonmc at 7:12 PM on July 17, 2002


"d000d! You're getting ...like, a bong?"

New.Best.Comment.Today
posted by dash_slot- at 7:20 PM on July 17, 2002


Talking about drugged up ads, anyone seen those Snuggles ads? The bear has his eyes half shut and can't stop giggling. The moment I saw that one I totally thought "dude, that bear is so phuking high."
posted by sadie01221975 at 7:50 PM on July 17, 2002


She does seem somewhat stoned, but honestly, the way a lot of teenagers talk makes them seem stoned, or stupid, if you don't spend much time around them. The frequent use of "like" and the lacadasical inflections don't just represent stoners and surfers the way they seemed to in the 80s. She could be quite smart...and I think we all know that saving a file doesn't necessarily mean you're still going to have it after your computer crashes. She didn't say exactly what problem her computer had, or even what application she was using. That's setting aside the fact that the whole thing was probably scripted.
posted by bingo at 8:04 PM on July 17, 2002


The forbidden adventures of Snuggles the bear.

Make sure you watch the "original" one first. Quicktime required.
posted by NortonDC at 8:26 PM on July 17, 2002


one day in class we were all ushered into the computer lab to write a paper. Before we started writing, the lab instructor said "I have no way of knowing if these computers will crash when you try to print, so make sure you save before you print."

These were macs.

As far as the "beepbeepbeep" stuff, it could hapen if you tried to use the keyboard after bluescreening, or locking up, because the computer will stop reading the keys (yes, a keyboard overflow).

Anyway, windows2000, and XP are very stable. I would assume OSX is too. Windows ME might be somewhat unstable still, and Mac OSs before X are unstable.
posted by delmoi at 8:38 PM on July 17, 2002


It's like comparing the electrical system of a Ford to that of a Chevy. Who the f cares?

My new business venture will be selling stickers of Calvin peeing on either a Mac Apple or a PC.

If Mac is trying to sell to people who want the easiest computers to use in the world, they're going to run into problems. The average person who doesn't know at all how to run a computer or care to learn probably won't know where to buy Mac software especially if they're interested in playing games on it (maybe uninformed computer buyer buys it for their kids?)... Then the poor retail worker will get blamed (the one selling software- not the computers)...

The scenario reminds me of when Target started selling Linux. I imagined every possible outcome assuming that anyone who really knew they were interested in Linux wouldn't go to Target looking for it. Anyone who did buy it would probably do so because "they heard they should get it" than call up the poor electronics employees or tech support and attack them in an attempt to learn how to get it to work.

That stoned mac girl is damn cute though.
posted by drezdn at 8:48 PM on July 17, 2002


Okay, a lot of people are still saying that teenagers nowadays seem stoned anyway. Now let me assure you that, as a teenager (and one who often sees other teenagers sober and stoned and drunk, among other things), Ellen Feiss is NOT acting like an average sober teenager. Saying like and other useless words (hella is my personal favorite) is different from having totally bloodshot, wandering eyes, stumbling through your vocabulary, and basically an all out cluelessness to anything that is going on.

I understand that it can be hard to tell sometimes (the same way I can't tell someone's age if they're anywhere from 2-13) but in this respect there is a definite difference. Whether she is actually stoned I'm not sure of, but there is no question that she absolutely looks it.
posted by swank6 at 9:01 PM on July 17, 2002


My new business venture will be selling stickers of Calvin peeing on either a Mac Apple or a PC.

already seen one with the AOL logo....
posted by epersonae at 9:17 PM on July 17, 2002


she can crash my pc any day.
posted by ggggarret at 10:05 PM on July 17, 2002


Bottom line to those who say the ad is pointless / weak / stupid / etc... It worked. There is a thread of 70+ (and growing) talking about it here on Metafilter; it's accomplished it's mission: exposure.
posted by jca at 10:17 PM on July 17, 2002


Yes, it did. And you know........it's a bummer..
posted by Kodel at 10:30 PM on July 17, 2002


Also, this says entirely way too much about our American culture! Sigh...there it is again
posted by Kodel at 10:31 PM on July 17, 2002


I was looking at the other switch ads and that dude Juan claims to have been using windows for 15 years.

Which means he was using something like windows 1.0.
Did anyone actually USE 1.0? I'd never even heard of it until 2 something and still didn't see it until 3.0....
posted by jaded at 10:46 PM on July 17, 2002


Dude, someone should, like, totally register ellenfeiss.com (it's available). If we don't do it, some squatter will register it and make it redirect to some pr0n site.

That would be........................a bummer.
posted by bradlauster at 11:32 PM on July 17, 2002


jaded: History of Windows. 1383: the invention of the sash. No, wait ...

Windows 2.0 was released in 1987. That would have been the graphical environment, with the MS-DOS Executive as the shell -- though most people would simply launch it for a single application, e.g. Excel. Though 1.0 did exist as well, Excel wasn't quite around then -- the only significant application I recall seeing run it was Ventura Publisher. But if you were in the right place, say, a number-crunching job, you definitely could have been saddled with Windows 2.0.

(Don't tell anyone I know this stuff. They already think I'm too experienced.)
posted by dhartung at 11:47 PM on July 17, 2002


Windows 3.0 - now there are some happy memories.

[/sarcasm]

I have never met anyone who used a version earlier than 3.0, but someone must have.
posted by dg at 12:08 AM on July 18, 2002


I have seen Windows 1.0 in action, and even played with it for a brief while, when a friend found it on a long-lost 5 1/4" floppy around the time Windows 95 was initially released.
posted by Danelope at 1:16 AM on July 18, 2002


dhartung: them's some powerful popups on that link...
posted by dash_slot- at 1:21 AM on July 18, 2002


dg - I did, i used 1.0, and 3.0 and then i bought a mac. go figure.
posted by dabitch at 4:41 AM on July 18, 2002


Stoned teenagers' vocabularies are so small it's like, whatever.
posted by cogat at 5:36 AM on July 18, 2002


That Dell dude pisses me off. Everyone knows he stole that act from Jim Bruer (Half Baked).
posted by adampsyche at 5:59 AM on July 18, 2002


One of the things I try to teach my students is to develop a Ctrl-S twitch (I suppose it's apple-S on the Macintosh.) Granted its been about 6 months since it has saved my rear end but it is still helpful. Every time you pause to think, hit Ctrl-S.

(It also helps to have revision-tracking on but invisible.)
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:30 AM on July 18, 2002


dhartung, I may be misremembering, but I think Ventura Publisher (how I hated that program) shipped with and ran on a different GUI. I can't recall what this Windows competitor was called. It was dead and gone by the time of the Windows 3.1 onslaught.

Anyway, MS Windows was definitely around fifteen years ago; I remember the company I worked for debating about porting a product to it. They decided not to.
posted by timeistight at 9:10 AM on July 18, 2002


Keyboard buffer overruns are the only reason I can think of for a PC that is in use to have sudden beepage like she described.

Could be that she'd done some crystal meth to keep her 'alert', when suddenly her fingers started moving WAAAY too fast for her brain, causing said keyboard buffer overrun...
posted by yellowcandy at 10:59 AM on July 18, 2002


In 1989/1990, Chris Crawford published his game Balance of Power that ran a runtime of a very early version of Windows. 1.0, I think.
posted by crunchland at 11:39 AM on July 18, 2002


"I can't recall what this Windows competitor was called."

Ventura Publisher used to sit on top of a stripped-down version of a pretty funky GUI runtime: Digital Research GEM, which is now free under the GPL.
posted by majick at 11:46 AM on July 18, 2002


In 1989/1990, Chris Crawford published his game Balance of Power that ran a runtime of a very early version of Windows. 1.0, I think.

I was a QA tester on that game and Balance of Power II. We were mostly testing the Apple IIcs and Amiga ports, but IIRC it was a DOS game.
posted by briank at 12:53 PM on July 18, 2002


Dude. There was nothing better in college than getting all high and playing Maelstrom for several hours... Funny, since I've switched to PCs, I've smoked a lot less grass. Maybe it's time to switch back?
posted by elvissinatra at 1:13 PM on July 18, 2002


I just went to Apple's site. The ad is still there.
posted by PaleFire at 1:36 PM on July 19, 2002


ellenfeiss.com has been registered.
posted by tami at 8:21 AM on July 20, 2002


These remixes are fantastic.
posted by adampsyche at 10:59 AM on July 20, 2002


Not to mention ellenfeissfanclub.com.
posted by chrismear at 7:03 AM on July 22, 2002


DMO. your right, imo. As some of you mentioned, she is stoned, maybe if it was Fiona Apple (did you think of her, I did). So does it take one to know one?, stoner that is. Well, to those that think she is, along that line, were is Apple based? So what is next a surfer dude.

Calibunga! dudes and dudetts, I get better surf reports off the web, with my Apple, man. Hula dude I can surf the surf for real, cool! Wow! did you just see that point, breaking killer style; killer wave action, man. O'! I'm on it totally! thanks to Apple, dude. I can even surf with a buddy, buddy.

From a surfer, she reminds me of an executive daughter, I'm enrolled in college as this is my life. Thanks to my parents footing the bill I can have one. Hey, look at the prettier colors with this computer, "not like those other ones you know what I'm talking about", that dad is going to buy for me. Apple must be great, because it begins with an "a".
Pass the doobee, so I can really laugh.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:06 PM on July 22, 2002


Total self link, but Glorious Noise made an Ellen Feiss fan club the day we heard about this. She rules!
posted by elvissinatra at 1:44 PM on July 29, 2002


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