Comments on: Comments on 18675

Post number 18675

dash_slot- — Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:49:11 -0800

Set your conspiracy phasers to stun!
"If this recollection is correct, the entire incident, and its absence from the public record, raises new questions about the FBI investigation of Moussaoui and even the 1995 destruction of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City." What's the credibility of Jim Crogan and this publication - it's new to me, but seems to undertake serious investigative journalism, and publish 'weighty' names. Now, remind me again, why doesn't the Bush 'administration' want the air crashes on September 11th 2001 (uniquely, it appears) to be subject to the ususal Air Transportation investigations? Aren't there enough unanswered questions?
[NB: Not a troll: it's gentle ribbing....]

By: dash_slot-

dash_slot- — Wed, 24 Jul 2002 19:54:40 -0800

Do you think we could try and maintain the recent return of manners to Mefi (in general, I mean - esp. between regular combatants), and take this one moderately seriously? I'm baffled at the stonewalling in the US government, and wonder at the incompetence and lackadaisical attitude shown by some americans (eg., the local FBI in Oklahoma) in pursuing leads to various murdererous gangs and possible links between them.

By: kablam

kablam — Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:21:59 -0800

I think a while back some enterprising mass psychologist calculated out the critical amount of information and disinformation (spin) needed to overwhelm the vast majority of people. In past it might have been called "scandal" fatigue or "crisis" fatigue. The bottom line is the exhaustion which comes to the public from the axiom that a solution to a problem, or justice, will come if we just talk about it enough (instead of someone actually doing something.) For example, take the JFK assassination. Arguments for and against a single assassin, two assassins, multiple assassins. Some say far broader conspiracies involving the Mafia and other nations. Some say "case closed", others drag in extraneous information, say Marilyn Monroe, etc. ad nauseum. And then what? Nobody does anything except talk about it. Most people just roll their eyes. The fatigue has already set in about the 9-11 airplanes, with suggestions of government disinformation being put out to distract from real issues or maybe just embarassment, like "an F-16 shooting down the plane headed for the White House." Or that for some reason the Pentagon was promulgating the conspiracy theory that a plane didn't actually hit the Pentagon! Then, of course, calling its own conspiracy "crackpot", to obfuscate the "real" conspiracy theories.

By: evanizer

evanizer — Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:37:05 -0800

*yawn* Wow, I never thought I'd say that...

By: dash_slot-

dash_slot- — Wed, 24 Jul 2002 20:58:19 -0800

"I have also noticed that under slight fear there is a strong tendency to yawn" (Darwin 1872:291).

By: y2karl

y2karl — Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:24:12 -0800

*yawn* Wow, I never thought I'd say that... Table for one, sir?

By: dhartung

dhartung — Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:54:03 -0800

To answer one question, dash, the LA Weekly is an established alternative newspaper (23+ years) and a partner of the Village Voice. As for Crogan, he's been looking at the Middle East connection to OKC for some time, although he also falls into left cant such as the idea that a war in Afghanistan was planned in advance, a vast overstatement of the evidence. Reasonable, but just a little speculative. For your second question, the CW answer would seem to be "because the investigation was assigned to the FBI", though there are some obvious self-serving CYA hypotheses as well. We've already covered the Jose Padilla-John Doe No. 2 resemblance; the FBI could easily demonstrate its falsity by releasing a certain convenience-store surveillance videotape (or the media could at least follow up with the relevant eyewitnesses). It's a very slim possibility but why not rule it out? Strange. And Oklahoma City, perhaps completely coincidentally, was where Steven Emerson stumbled into a conference of Islamic extremism in 1992, beginning his career of studying terrorism and Osama bin Laden (and occasionally speaking foolishly). It was never as removed from the world as it seemed, and these constant coincidences just trigger suspicion. As for Crogan's claims here that the prosecution knows nothing of this connection, there's one possibility he doesn't broach: that there is one which relates to secret evidence the prosecutors can't discuss. Still, the FBI has managed to trip over its own feet more than once in recent years, 9/11 notwithstanding. It may just be more incompetence and obdurate compartmentalization.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Thu, 25 Jul 2002 03:29:19 -0800

It seems to me that all too often the FBI and others do not release information which would clarify things but which they keep under wraps with little or real reason for so doing other than to know that if all things are kept secret than there may be less a chance that something that ought not be made public does get made public. And this leads people like me to wonder at their competence or secretiveness.