You cannot violate the Geneva Conventions in Putt Putt Saves the Zoo.
May 29, 2020 7:54 AM Subscribe
While quarantine has its difficulties, it has also shown to be a great opportunity to catch up on media that one perhaps didn't have time for under a normal work/life schedule. With video games, the amount of time and money potentially invested, however, can leave a potential player asking a lot of questions beforehand, such as "Is it any good?" or "Is is appropriate for my kids?" but most importantly, "Can you violate the Geneva Conventions?"
You cannot violate the Geneva Conventions in Putt Putt Saves the Zoo.
Macavity did.
posted by Foosnark at 8:18 AM on May 29, 2020 [15 favorites]
Macavity did.
posted by Foosnark at 8:18 AM on May 29, 2020 [15 favorites]
This is important work.
posted by dazed_one at 8:27 AM on May 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by dazed_one at 8:27 AM on May 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
I feel like the over-broad interpretation of the Geneva conventions here takes something away from the project: for every gem like learning that dropping bombs from a balloon is against the Hague convention of 1907, but that Red Dead Redemption just barely evades it by being set in 1897, there's ten duds like claiming you can violate the conventions in Goose Game because a) you can be mean to people, b) those people are civilians.
posted by Pyry at 8:37 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Pyry at 8:37 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
People joke but the normalization of war crimes in video games worries me, it's a form of desensitization.
I recently started playing World of Warcraft again and was really bummed when one of the early Pandaria missions has me bombing a field hospital that the Alliance has set up in a neutral Pandaren temple. Then I walk in and slaughter the surviving medics personally. Now admittedly the Alliance are also shooting cannons from that same temple, the temple they seized from the local peaceful people, so they too are guilty of war crimes, but it's all kind of awful.
posted by Nelson at 8:47 AM on May 29, 2020 [14 favorites]
I recently started playing World of Warcraft again and was really bummed when one of the early Pandaria missions has me bombing a field hospital that the Alliance has set up in a neutral Pandaren temple. Then I walk in and slaughter the surviving medics personally. Now admittedly the Alliance are also shooting cannons from that same temple, the temple they seized from the local peaceful people, so they too are guilty of war crimes, but it's all kind of awful.
posted by Nelson at 8:47 AM on May 29, 2020 [14 favorites]
I think I first violated the Geneva Convention in 1981 playing Defender, where you can shoot all the "humanoids" and make the planet explode.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:51 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:51 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Ooh, the ones at top are an improvement! They tell you exactly which convention gets violated how; the earlier April ones just say "You can violate the Geneva Conventions in [game]."
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:01 AM on May 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:01 AM on May 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yeah, the good ones are really good. Like Link's Awakening.
posted by The Bellman at 9:13 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by The Bellman at 9:13 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
BTW, if you find the Twitter sidebar as annoying as I do, there's a Firefox addon called "Hide Twitter Sidebars" that is currently dramatically improving my experience.
</derail>
posted by suetanvil at 9:17 AM on May 29, 2020
</derail>
posted by suetanvil at 9:17 AM on May 29, 2020
Some of these are a stretch, but I think in general it's a good way to get people to be aware of or curious about the existence of the Geneva conventions or war crimes in general.
Even developers of military-themed games don't often think to recognize this stuff.I recall explaining to a room of developers that while a laser gun that blinds opponents in multiplayer is an interesting mechanic, but totally a war crime under UN conventions.
posted by subocoyne at 9:31 AM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Even developers of military-themed games don't often think to recognize this stuff.I recall explaining to a room of developers that while a laser gun that blinds opponents in multiplayer is an interesting mechanic, but totally a war crime under UN conventions.
posted by subocoyne at 9:31 AM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
@RobotVoodooPower Are you a Terran in that game and do the Geneva Conventions apply to off-worlders or non-humans?
posted by drivingmenuts at 9:32 AM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by drivingmenuts at 9:32 AM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
To be fair, the only thing that protects geese from prosecution for literally tens of thousands of crimes is that we mostly don’t prosecute animals. Geese are the worst.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:51 AM on May 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:51 AM on May 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
> To be fair, the only thing that protects geese from prosecution for literally tens of thousands of crimes is that we mostly don’t prosecute animals.
While we have prosecuted animals on occasion, geese do not yet have a criminal record.
posted by ardgedee at 10:16 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
While we have prosecuted animals on occasion, geese do not yet have a criminal record.
posted by ardgedee at 10:16 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Tune in for my forthcoming youtube series, Let's Play Sims 4: Geneva Conventions Challenge, in which the goal is to find an article that can't be violated.
posted by notquitemaryann at 11:04 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by notquitemaryann at 11:04 AM on May 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
People joke but the normalization of war crimes in video games worries me, it's a form of desensitization.
The idea that video games cause violence is a right-wing talking point designed to incite a moral panic among parents and deflect blame from the gun culture in America. Video games are about as much to blame for a desensitization to war crimes as Bugs Bunny is.
posted by axiom at 11:13 AM on May 29, 2020
The idea that video games cause violence is a right-wing talking point designed to incite a moral panic among parents and deflect blame from the gun culture in America. Video games are about as much to blame for a desensitization to war crimes as Bugs Bunny is.
posted by axiom at 11:13 AM on May 29, 2020
The idea that video games cause violence is a right-wing talking point designed to incite a moral panic among parents and deflect blame from the gun culture in America.
That may be true, but there's a difference between saying "this video game is responsible for gun violence in America" and "this video game normalizes certain types of violence that we consider to be beyond the pale, which, in part, contributes to political will to not prosecute those who commit those types of violence."
posted by thegears at 11:20 AM on May 29, 2020 [7 favorites]
That may be true, but there's a difference between saying "this video game is responsible for gun violence in America" and "this video game normalizes certain types of violence that we consider to be beyond the pale, which, in part, contributes to political will to not prosecute those who commit those types of violence."
posted by thegears at 11:20 AM on May 29, 2020 [7 favorites]
The idea that video games cause violence is a right-wing talking point designed to incite a moral panic among parents and deflect blame from the gun culture in America. Video games are about as much to blame for a desensitization to war crimes as Bugs Bunny is.
Would you be willing to expand that to a more general "the media people consume doesn't affect them"? And if not, why not?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:21 AM on May 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
Would you be willing to expand that to a more general "the media people consume doesn't affect them"? And if not, why not?
posted by Pope Guilty at 11:21 AM on May 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think media does affect people, but that's an awfully low bar to clear. I also think it's (perhaps unintentionally in this case) telling that nobody is ever calling for examination of the link between Bugs Bunny and violence. Blaming video games is a deliberate strategy to deflect discussion away from gun control (every other country on earth has video games but the ones with very limited gun violence tend to be the ones with gun control laws). I'm trying to push back against the reflexive discussion of video games and violence as if they are to blame, because it assumes a lot of facts not in evidence, and to my mind suggests that the person repeating this talking point at the very least hasn't examined it very critically.
posted by axiom at 11:59 AM on May 29, 2020
posted by axiom at 11:59 AM on May 29, 2020
> I also think it's (perhaps unintentionally in this case) telling that nobody is ever calling for examination of the link between Bugs Bunny and violence.
Maybe it's because calling out cartoons for their violence is passé now that we have video games, because concern trolling over violence in cartoons was a thing for decades, and it's been the subject of multiple academic studies and broadcast legislation in the US.
posted by ardgedee at 12:28 PM on May 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Maybe it's because calling out cartoons for their violence is passé now that we have video games, because concern trolling over violence in cartoons was a thing for decades, and it's been the subject of multiple academic studies and broadcast legislation in the US.
posted by ardgedee at 12:28 PM on May 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
"You can violate article 15 of the 1st Geneva Convention (the wounded and sick shall receive adequate care) in Scrubs: The Video Game pretty much any part of the American health care system."
posted by Frayed Knot at 12:32 PM on May 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Frayed Knot at 12:32 PM on May 29, 2020 [5 favorites]
But we aren't talking about the violence, we're talking about the war crimes. And it's not just whether I'm more likely to commit a war crime, but whether I'm going to be less inclined to condemn it when other people commit war crimes.
posted by RobotHero at 12:32 PM on May 29, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by RobotHero at 12:32 PM on May 29, 2020 [7 favorites]
It's harder NOT to violate the Geneva Conventions than to violate them in Rimworld.
posted by praemunire at 12:33 PM on May 29, 2020
posted by praemunire at 12:33 PM on May 29, 2020
And it's not just whether I'm more likely to commit a war crime, but whether I'm going to be less inclined to condemn it when other people commit war crimes.
Perhaps it's also about whether you are going to be less inclined to pressure others to condemn it when they observe a third party committing a war crime. Let's postulate an infinite series of things that are potentially bad.
posted by value of information at 12:54 PM on May 29, 2020
Perhaps it's also about whether you are going to be less inclined to pressure others to condemn it when they observe a third party committing a war crime. Let's postulate an infinite series of things that are potentially bad.
posted by value of information at 12:54 PM on May 29, 2020
At enough levels removed you can make it "cultural mores" and the question is how does media effect and/or reflect cultural mores?
But I do like the focus on Geneva Conventions because it brings it back to concrete questions of why would a specific action violate the Geneva Conventions? And why would that have been included in the Geneva Conventions in the first place?
posted by RobotHero at 1:05 PM on May 29, 2020
But I do like the focus on Geneva Conventions because it brings it back to concrete questions of why would a specific action violate the Geneva Conventions? And why would that have been included in the Geneva Conventions in the first place?
posted by RobotHero at 1:05 PM on May 29, 2020
Mostly because people were doing them.
Review of Isabel Hull's A Scrap of Paper: Breaking and Making of International Law During the Great War
posted by praemunire at 1:53 PM on May 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Review of Isabel Hull's A Scrap of Paper: Breaking and Making of International Law During the Great War
posted by praemunire at 1:53 PM on May 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
It's harder NOT to violate the Geneva Conventions than to violate them in Rimworld.
All Rimworld raiders are attempting to kill all members of my colony, the majority of whom are direct representations of my real extended family - all of us are relatives with a shared clan identity. Thus all incoming raids are at a minimum unprovoked civilian massacre attempts, and arguably de facto attempts at ethnic cleansing. In their genocidal bloodlust Rimworld raiders gleefully employ indiscriminate artillery bombardment against civilian residential areas as well as anti-vehicular explosive weapons and incendiaries against civilians (Doomsday launchers and Molotovs).
Contrary to the aspersions freely cast hereabouts I never butcher or skin members of raiding tribes; in fact immediately after combat the first thing I do is transport any surviving raiders to a sterile, spacious, and beautifully decorated medical ward where they are stabilized by a world-class surgeon (who coincidentally resembles our cat). Due to numerous escape attempts - and a handful of successful ones that resulted in the escapees returning as combatants in subsequent attacks - the raiders have unfortunately forced us to adopt a policy of preemptive restraint for all stabilized prisoners via the most effective and (arguably) painless method available: surgical excision of the spinal cord using only the finest organically farmed traditional medicine. The removed spinal cords are of course primarily intended for restoring motor function to any of our colonists who may have had theirs damaged by the raiders; only the surplus is ever sold to passing traders (and dear Lord is there ever surplus). All profits from these sales are, uh, donated to the survivors of the raid.
Out of compassionate consideration for the quality of life of all parties involved, following removal of all raiders' spinal cords they are painlessly euthanized via progressive organ donation with an eye towards maximizing survival time ( = removing the eyes first). This takes place inside the same medical ward so that any conscious raiders can freely socialize while they wait, or quietly reflect upon their participation in attempted massacre (extra quietly if money's short and I'm harvesting jaws in addition to high-value organs). This contemplation is both prompted and enhanced by several masterwork jade sculptures made specifically for their benefit by local artists. Once their charitable donation is complete, the raiders' remains are then respectfully cremated.
Obviously only someone arguing in bad faith would claim that I am dragging surviving enemies off the battlefield screaming, minimally patching them up with third-rate herbal meds before shattering their spines and then breaking them down into their component parts one by one (spine->right eye->left eye->right lung->right kidney->heart or liver). It is entirely disingenuous to construe our beautiful home as a massive bootleg organ farm manned by clinical sociopaths with all our victims crudely shackled to rows of hospital beds, helplessly awaiting their own turns under the knife while shrieking in terror to one another and gazing about wildly at all the sculptures consisting *only* of depictions of past surgical victims writhing in agony (organ harvesting is always written to the colony's MemorableEvent log so if you do a lot of that it'll show up in like half your completed artwork descriptions). And it is of course purely due to an accident of base layout that on the way to the surgical ward they are dragged past the staging pile for the corpse incinerator as it busily processes the non-surviving raiders. Piles of their eviscerated friends and family members overflowing into the halls such that even a Westworld set designer would deem it "a bit much, no?"
In conclusion: Rimworld is a profoundly ethical game unless you go out of your way to play it otherwise.
posted by Ryvar at 3:34 PM on May 29, 2020 [8 favorites]
All Rimworld raiders are attempting to kill all members of my colony, the majority of whom are direct representations of my real extended family - all of us are relatives with a shared clan identity. Thus all incoming raids are at a minimum unprovoked civilian massacre attempts, and arguably de facto attempts at ethnic cleansing. In their genocidal bloodlust Rimworld raiders gleefully employ indiscriminate artillery bombardment against civilian residential areas as well as anti-vehicular explosive weapons and incendiaries against civilians (Doomsday launchers and Molotovs).
Contrary to the aspersions freely cast hereabouts I never butcher or skin members of raiding tribes; in fact immediately after combat the first thing I do is transport any surviving raiders to a sterile, spacious, and beautifully decorated medical ward where they are stabilized by a world-class surgeon (who coincidentally resembles our cat). Due to numerous escape attempts - and a handful of successful ones that resulted in the escapees returning as combatants in subsequent attacks - the raiders have unfortunately forced us to adopt a policy of preemptive restraint for all stabilized prisoners via the most effective and (arguably) painless method available: surgical excision of the spinal cord using only the finest organically farmed traditional medicine. The removed spinal cords are of course primarily intended for restoring motor function to any of our colonists who may have had theirs damaged by the raiders; only the surplus is ever sold to passing traders (and dear Lord is there ever surplus). All profits from these sales are, uh, donated to the survivors of the raid.
Out of compassionate consideration for the quality of life of all parties involved, following removal of all raiders' spinal cords they are painlessly euthanized via progressive organ donation with an eye towards maximizing survival time ( = removing the eyes first). This takes place inside the same medical ward so that any conscious raiders can freely socialize while they wait, or quietly reflect upon their participation in attempted massacre (extra quietly if money's short and I'm harvesting jaws in addition to high-value organs). This contemplation is both prompted and enhanced by several masterwork jade sculptures made specifically for their benefit by local artists. Once their charitable donation is complete, the raiders' remains are then respectfully cremated.
Obviously only someone arguing in bad faith would claim that I am dragging surviving enemies off the battlefield screaming, minimally patching them up with third-rate herbal meds before shattering their spines and then breaking them down into their component parts one by one (spine->right eye->left eye->right lung->right kidney->heart or liver). It is entirely disingenuous to construe our beautiful home as a massive bootleg organ farm manned by clinical sociopaths with all our victims crudely shackled to rows of hospital beds, helplessly awaiting their own turns under the knife while shrieking in terror to one another and gazing about wildly at all the sculptures consisting *only* of depictions of past surgical victims writhing in agony (organ harvesting is always written to the colony's MemorableEvent log so if you do a lot of that it'll show up in like half your completed artwork descriptions). And it is of course purely due to an accident of base layout that on the way to the surgical ward they are dragged past the staging pile for the corpse incinerator as it busily processes the non-surviving raiders. Piles of their eviscerated friends and family members overflowing into the halls such that even a Westworld set designer would deem it "a bit much, no?"
In conclusion: Rimworld is a profoundly ethical game unless you go out of your way to play it otherwise.
posted by Ryvar at 3:34 PM on May 29, 2020 [8 favorites]
The Stardew Valley one is bullshit. Failing to harvest your crops before the end of the season does not render the agricultural land useless. Just scythe the dead plants and plant the current season's seeds.
posted by Jacqueline at 5:51 PM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Jacqueline at 5:51 PM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
> You cannot violate the Geneva Conventions in Putt Putt Saves the Zoo.
Not with that attitude
posted by Pronoiac at 6:12 PM on May 29, 2020 [10 favorites]
Not with that attitude
posted by Pronoiac at 6:12 PM on May 29, 2020 [10 favorites]
Putt Putt saves the Zoo was just the best... Not a challenging game, but...
"We are the topiary creatures..."
So much Easter egg fun.
posted by Windopaene at 10:47 PM on May 29, 2020
"We are the topiary creatures..."
So much Easter egg fun.
posted by Windopaene at 10:47 PM on May 29, 2020
I think it's churlish to worry about how casually people treat war crimes when it comes to video games when America is generally not particularly fussed about war crimes on their side in general. Video games are a relatively small part of American culture, and American culture is generally pretty blasé about the suffering of others in general.
Like, sure, wring your hands about war crimes, but there's a bunch of Americans who aren't convinced they should care about other people.
posted by Merus at 11:17 PM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Like, sure, wring your hands about war crimes, but there's a bunch of Americans who aren't convinced they should care about other people.
posted by Merus at 11:17 PM on May 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
Here is a detailed modern review of Putt-Putt Saves The Zoo - via hardcoregaming101.net
In the past year they have begun writing reviews of many of the excellent Humongous Entertainment edutainment games of the 90's, covering most of the Putt-Putt and Spy Fox titles so far. I look forward to their reviews of the the other Humongous original series: Pajama Sam, Freddi Fish, Fatty Bear, Backyard Sports, and Junior Field Trips.
posted by fairmettle at 12:38 AM on May 30, 2020
In the past year they have begun writing reviews of many of the excellent Humongous Entertainment edutainment games of the 90's, covering most of the Putt-Putt and Spy Fox titles so far. I look forward to their reviews of the the other Humongous original series: Pajama Sam, Freddi Fish, Fatty Bear, Backyard Sports, and Junior Field Trips.
posted by fairmettle at 12:38 AM on May 30, 2020
The Stardew Valley one is bullshit.
But the violation that Stardew Valley itself committed was real - until the dev replaced the red crosses on the medical stuff with green ones.
posted by entity447b at 1:00 PM on May 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
But the violation that Stardew Valley itself committed was real - until the dev replaced the red crosses on the medical stuff with green ones.
posted by entity447b at 1:00 PM on May 30, 2020 [4 favorites]
Yeah, maybe it's fairer to consider games as a reflection of wider mores than the driving force behind them. When referencing Guantanamo Bay in relation to Untitled Goose Game, games come out looking pretty good in comparison.
And nobody's specifically mentioned it, but I assume this is partly inspired by Can You Pet The Dog? Which I think also inspired Bees In Games. So it's evaluating games through a very specific criteria in order to get people thinking about that criteria?
posted by RobotHero at 1:38 PM on May 30, 2020
And nobody's specifically mentioned it, but I assume this is partly inspired by Can You Pet The Dog? Which I think also inspired Bees In Games. So it's evaluating games through a very specific criteria in order to get people thinking about that criteria?
posted by RobotHero at 1:38 PM on May 30, 2020
It's also worth reflecting on what message this Twitter account is sending: namely, by classifying things like a goose stealing someone's glasses as a war crime, the account is sending the message that the Geneva conventions are a bunch of bureaucratic technicalities which are easy to accidentally violate, and that violations shouldn't be considered especially serious.
posted by Pyry at 2:52 PM on May 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Pyry at 2:52 PM on May 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised folks in the blue are decrying the normalization of war crimes rather than war itself.
posted by pwnguin at 5:11 PM on May 30, 2020
posted by pwnguin at 5:11 PM on May 30, 2020
It's a post about war crimes?
I decry poverty and hunger, too. I'm surprised you don't, pwnguin!
posted by Nelson at 7:04 PM on May 30, 2020
I decry poverty and hunger, too. I'm surprised you don't, pwnguin!
posted by Nelson at 7:04 PM on May 30, 2020
I mean really, does the Geneva Convention even apply offworld?
posted by drivingmenuts at 3:00 AM on June 1, 2020
posted by drivingmenuts at 3:00 AM on June 1, 2020
Their best post is definitely
"According to Benjamin Netanyahu, you can commit an act of terrorism in Horizon Zero Dawn by throwing a rock at a piece of machinery."
posted by kafziel at 4:55 PM on June 2, 2020
"According to Benjamin Netanyahu, you can commit an act of terrorism in Horizon Zero Dawn by throwing a rock at a piece of machinery."
posted by kafziel at 4:55 PM on June 2, 2020
« Older A Musical Interlude... | how guarded he's been able to remain while talking... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by suetanvil at 8:15 AM on May 29, 2020 [1 favorite]