Never allow the evil of this world to change you... You change it!

July 19, 2020 1:33 AM

Mr. Jason Wilson is a martial arts teacher in Detroit, MI.
He teaches young (and old) men to 'Cry like a men'.
(Main account).
posted by growabrain (18 comments total)

Hmm. I'm not at all sure I like this.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:09 AM on July 19, 2020 [1 favorite]

Well, I cried.
posted by eustatic at 7:26 AM on July 19, 2020

Hmm. I'm not at all sure I like this.

Once you work through those emotions (and have a bit of a cry), give it another shot. Seems like a good teacher.
Would you have preferred Wilson box the young man's ears and tell him to stop being a crybaby?
posted by Chickenring at 7:30 AM on July 19, 2020 [4 favorites]

I kind of love it.

I'm not a huge believer in the gender binary, and I don't like how the message "be a man" can get conflated with "omg don't be a woman, women are terrible."

But "punch through to the objective" is a good lesson. And being a Black man in America is really difficult. The boy in this video needs all the support his teacher is giving him and it seems like he got a lot out of it.

So I think this is a "take what you like and leave the rest" situation.
posted by selfmedicating at 8:20 AM on July 19, 2020 [10 favorites]

I always found it interesting how often the male characters in the Homeric epics wept-- in sadness, frustration, grief, joy. I wonder how notions of "masculinity" in the West got from there to the stereotype of men not allowed to show feelings or ever cry.
posted by gwint at 8:47 AM on July 19, 2020 [11 favorites]

"It's ok for macho men to show every emotion available..."
posted by Parasite Unseen at 9:56 AM on July 19, 2020 [2 favorites]

"It's ok for macho men to show every emotion available..."

...and to wear a funny hat.
posted by storybored at 11:41 AM on July 19, 2020

I always found it interesting how often the male characters in the Homeric epics wept-- in sadness, frustration, grief, joy. I wonder how notions of "masculinity" in the West got from there to the stereotype of men not allowed to show feelings or ever cry.

I'll put $5 on Roman Stoicism as a contributing factor.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:44 PM on July 19, 2020 [2 favorites]

Hmm. I'm not at all sure I like this.

Hey Joe in Australia, I’m curious why.
posted by pt68 at 5:26 PM on July 19, 2020

Hey Joe in Australia, I’m curious why.

I found it hard to put my reaction into words last night; I'll try again this morning. I have to say that it was visceral, not ideological, which probably explains why I couldn't articulate it at the time.

This video happened to be the first one I saw, although I watched and/or read the other material too. I see a boy being told to undertake a physically painful "test" and then, while he's in a very vulnerable emotional state, his experience is framed by his mentor in order for him to supposedly learn a lesson. It looked cult-like, and abusive. We're only seeing a highlights reel and, given the video's message of stoicism, I felt the boy was or had been bullied into compliance.

My less emotional and reactive critique is this: an assertion that strength and stoicism are masculine virtues implies that they are not feminine; Wilson is telling the boys that they can and should surpass women, by acquiring qualities they lack. This is inherently misogynistic because they are being taught to consider women as "the other", and to think differently of them, and to compete against them. It is quite literally male chauvinism. The fact that it's being delivered within what I consider an abusive setting doesn't make it better or worse: it's a bad message.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:55 PM on July 19, 2020 [6 favorites]

Wilson is telling the boys that they can and should surpass women, by acquiring qualities they lack

where does he say that?
posted by lalochezia at 7:45 PM on July 19, 2020 [2 favorites]

The broader message about dealing with adversity in society resonates. Absolutely. The specific lesson being taught here though—that pain is inherent to athletics/activity/sport and has to be pushed through—is how many, many athletes wreck their bodies trying to train through injuries. It might be good life coaching but it's terrible coaching-coaching.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 9:47 PM on July 19, 2020 [3 favorites]

Pain is just your body’s way of saying “ow”
posted by aubilenon at 10:05 PM on July 19, 2020 [6 favorites]

@Joe in Australia, thank you for explaining why. I have to admit that when I saw your initial response, I was flabbergasted, completely unsure of how somebody could interpret it based on the information. I see now what you mean (even though that's not how I felt about it).
posted by growabrain at 12:27 AM on July 20, 2020 [3 favorites]

I admit I had the same reaction as Joe in Australia initially, thought not for the same reasons. I watched the same video first, not realizing the other links were to videos as well. I re-watched later in the day and in the context of the other links, had a much more favorable impression.

I think my initial reaction was due to remembering what I was like at that age. If I got upset about something, I would completely shut down, and an adult demanding an explanation of why I was upset would just escalate things further.

But on re-watch I see that he is trying to teach them how to navigate that state of mind successfully rather than shutting down. That seems like a good thing to learn how to do. I had some thoughts about whether or not it's a good idea to create situations where those emotions come up, when that will happen to everyone often enough already, but on reflection, I don't think he's going for that specifically, just dealing with it when it happens.
posted by FishBike at 8:40 AM on July 20, 2020 [3 favorites]

I always found it interesting how often the male characters in the Homeric epics wept-- in sadness, frustration, grief, joy. I wonder how notions of "masculinity" in the West got from there to the stereotype of men not allowed to show feelings or ever cry.

Part of the answer is probably "capitalism combined with misogyny."

But from the 18th through the 20th centuries, the population became increasingly urbanised; soon, people were living in the midst of thousands of strangers. Furthermore, changes in the economy required men to work together in factories and offices where emotional expression and even private conversation were discouraged as time-wasting. As Tom Lutz writes in Crying: The Natural and Cultural History of Tears (1999), factory managers deliberately trained their workers to suppress emotion with the aim of boosting productivity: ‘You don’t want emotions interfering with the smooth running of things.’

Although some women worked in factories too, they were far more likely to remain in the home. They took in sewing, laundry or lodgers; or hired themselves out as domestics and governesses in other people’s houses. When a housewife or housemaid burst into tears, she was witnessed only by the members of her household. Often she wasn’t witnessed at all. Instead of being shouted at by a foreman, she could sob into her own laundry tub in peace.

--Man, Weeping, by Sandra Newman
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:37 PM on July 20, 2020 [5 favorites]

I always found it interesting how often the male characters in the Homeric epics wept-- in sadness, frustration, grief, joy. I wonder how notions of "masculinity" in the West got from there to the stereotype of men not allowed to show feelings or ever cry.

and a bonus spoiler, for them as weren't classics majors: you might not know it, if you haven't read such works as the Iliad, but the wonderful ability to have a good cry cured all these Heroes of the impulse to commit wanton violence on civilians and one another on either an intimate or a massive scale. To this day we still marvel at how tranquil these epics are, without any pointless wars or honor-murders or enslaving of women or any of that bad "toxic masculinity" business in them. The Feelings of these heroes were terrific, so of course no harm was done by expressing them loudly, vocally, tearfully, physically, often, and at great length. Truly, how much we have lost.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:01 PM on July 21, 2020 [1 favorite]

When a housewife or housemaid burst into tears, she was witnessed only by the members of her household.

I love and respect Sandra Newman, especially her refusal to sanctify or grovel before the mightly manly weep when discussing it historically. but a housemaid bursting into tears was witnessed by members of her employer's household, not her own household. she perhaps did not even have a household of her own. not remotely the same. not even similar.
posted by queenofbithynia at 7:48 PM on July 21, 2020