See how Adolf Hitler and the Nazis rise to power.
November 27, 2020 11:27 PM Subscribe
Rise of the Nazis [Ep. 1, 2, 3] - "In 1930 Germany was a liberal democracy. Just four years later democracy is dead, Germany's leader is a dictator and its government is in the hands of murderers. This series tells the story of how this happened. Leading historians and experts get inside the heads of some of the key players, whose political plotting, miscalculations and personal ambitions helped to destroy democracy and deliver control to Hitler." (via; BBC; previously)
An amazing, horrible book (reviewed here in the NY Times): Defying Hitler, by Sebastian Haffner.
posted by anshuman at 4:59 AM on November 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by anshuman at 4:59 AM on November 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
not available to canuckistanese, apparently :(
posted by hearthpig at 5:38 AM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by hearthpig at 5:38 AM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
For my Canuckistani friends: Rise of the Nazis
posted by evilDoug at 7:33 AM on November 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 7:33 AM on November 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
Also: The Nazis A Warning From History
posted by evilDoug at 7:39 AM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by evilDoug at 7:39 AM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
I will probably watch this tonight. I have been working on a small project that this will probably be useful for. A simple list (10 or less items) to print out and post around: "Defining Features of the Common Nazi" (with like references/quotes at the bottom maybe?)
So far I got:
-Pushy
-Spouts bullshit and lies
-Hostile
-Bigoted/Racist
-Zealously Nationalist (lots of flag waving)
I've been particularly interested in hearing from Germans in the era about how they recognized and dealt with Nazis around them... as opposed to the usual narratives which are mostly about fighting nazi soldiers from the outside. (i.e. the parts that led up to soldiers and atrocities where things could still be nipped in the bud, this time around.)
posted by sexyrobot at 8:14 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
So far I got:
-Pushy
-Spouts bullshit and lies
-Hostile
-Bigoted/Racist
-Zealously Nationalist (lots of flag waving)
I've been particularly interested in hearing from Germans in the era about how they recognized and dealt with Nazis around them... as opposed to the usual narratives which are mostly about fighting nazi soldiers from the outside. (i.e. the parts that led up to soldiers and atrocities where things could still be nipped in the bud, this time around.)
posted by sexyrobot at 8:14 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Vice Chancellor's Marburg Speech was a critical stepping stone to totalitarianism, a year-plus after the Enabling Act but before Hitler's complete takeover of government.
Two weeks later the authors of this speech were killed in the Night of the Long Knives, and six weeks later the German President lay dead and Hitler's path to authoritarian control over Germany was cleared.
Romney's vote to convict earlier this year (!) wasn't quite a "Profile in Courage" as von Papen's, but a similar demonstrative act against the gathering forces of authoritarian, one party, strongman rule.
The next 4 years will be a great challenge in getting the USA back away from the precipice of Trumpism and the Gingrich-Rove-McConnell model of eliminationalist politics.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:33 AM on November 28, 2020 [11 favorites]
Two weeks later the authors of this speech were killed in the Night of the Long Knives, and six weeks later the German President lay dead and Hitler's path to authoritarian control over Germany was cleared.
Romney's vote to convict earlier this year (!) wasn't quite a "Profile in Courage" as von Papen's, but a similar demonstrative act against the gathering forces of authoritarian, one party, strongman rule.
The next 4 years will be a great challenge in getting the USA back away from the precipice of Trumpism and the Gingrich-Rove-McConnell model of eliminationalist politics.
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 8:33 AM on November 28, 2020 [11 favorites]
If you're interested in how it's possible for a nazi regime to emerge from a modern society, I can recommend Michael Moorcock's extraordinary exploration of this subject, The Pyat Quartet. It's a long, dense, meticulously researched text which is by turns both hilarious and horrifying, full of completely unbelievable events and characters which often turn out to be historically accurate, presented through the eyes of a Zelig-like fool who manages to be accidentally present at the worst turning points of modern history.
posted by merlynkline at 8:38 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by merlynkline at 8:38 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
The Pyat books are fantasic: intense and funny. Be aware that they have a lot of sexual violence though.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:45 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:45 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
I watched these last year. The political one is excellent and showcases some really poor political manoeuvring on the part of the conservative leaders and you are left thinking that they are fools and incompetents. The legal one is excellent, and showcases the difference one person with integrity could make in the early part of the regime, and you are left thinking that with a bigger organised group, some things could have been different, at least before the war. The night of the knives is what it is - an exercise in ruthlessness, in the vein of all successful dictators.
posted by plonkee at 8:56 AM on November 28, 2020
posted by plonkee at 8:56 AM on November 28, 2020
for those keen on wormholes ...
Occult History Of The 3rd Reich
There are four parts. Link is to the first.
posted by philip-random at 9:06 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Occult History Of The 3rd Reich
There are four parts. Link is to the first.
posted by philip-random at 9:06 AM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Highly recommend The Coming of the Third Reich (reviews) by Richard J. Evans (bio), the first volume of his trilogy including The Third Reich In Power and The Third Reich at War.
posted by cenoxo at 9:21 AM on November 28, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 9:21 AM on November 28, 2020 [9 favorites]
One interesting wartime document is the downloadable 1943 OSS report, A Psychological Profile of Adolph Hitler: His Life and Legend.
posted by cenoxo at 10:05 AM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by cenoxo at 10:05 AM on November 28, 2020 [3 favorites]
Related; when my wife and I visited Berlin a few years ago we spent a couple of hours at the Topography Of Terror, which does an amazingly effective job of laying out the key events in chronological order. As you walk through and read the displays you can see Germany slipping away bit by bit by bit until it's gone. I was reminded of that line from Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises: "Gradually and then suddenly."
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:51 AM on November 28, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:51 AM on November 28, 2020 [8 favorites]
Looking forward to viewing this. Meanwhile, sexyrobot has
...been particularly interested in hearing from Germans in the era about how they recognized and dealt with Nazis around them
well, rory and evilDoug and now I are recommending the BBC's six-part Nazis miniseries from 1997. Plenty of interviews with elderly Germans who were there, at the time. Can't share a link, unfortunately; had to buy the DVD in order to see it.
posted by Rash at 11:21 AM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
...been particularly interested in hearing from Germans in the era about how they recognized and dealt with Nazis around them
well, rory and evilDoug and now I are recommending the BBC's six-part Nazis miniseries from 1997. Plenty of interviews with elderly Germans who were there, at the time. Can't share a link, unfortunately; had to buy the DVD in order to see it.
posted by Rash at 11:21 AM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Here in the US it would be the Night of the Long Rifles
posted by gottabefunky at 1:59 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by gottabefunky at 1:59 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
When I learned about Night of the Long Knives a week or so back (I KNOW!),I immediately thought of Milo Yiannopoulos. I really don’t think that dude knows what dangerous waters he is swimming in.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 2:47 PM on November 28, 2020
posted by Big Al 8000 at 2:47 PM on November 28, 2020
It looks like the 1997 series is available now.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq1ym0
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:48 PM on November 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xq1ym0
posted by Nancy Lebovitz at 2:48 PM on November 28, 2020 [7 favorites]
I’m quite enjoying the series. You think you know pretty much all there is to know about the subject, and upon seeing this, realizing you didn’t know a quarter of it.
posted by Capt. Renault at 2:58 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Capt. Renault at 2:58 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Who here recommends going straight to the original text, Mein Kampf, to directly see and understand and better recognize the kinds of thinking and psychology that leads to fascism, rather than (or supplemental to) second-hand and third-hand depictions and analysis?
posted by brambleboy at 3:28 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by brambleboy at 3:28 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Goldhagen is also an excellent telling of the rise of Nazism and the events of WW2. If nothing else read/listen to the intro and first and last chapters for a solid take on how the philosophy of "struggle" explains everything that followed (with the obvious parallels to modern America left unsaid but clear).
posted by kokaku at 3:38 PM on November 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 3:38 PM on November 28, 2020 [5 favorites]
Fine, brambleboy, but as Nietzsche was quoted as saying: " Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." Oddly, it was bastardization of his writings that the Nazi's used to create the Teutonic Ubermensch.
posted by evilDoug at 3:44 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by evilDoug at 3:44 PM on November 28, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've reccomended this before: the two volumes of diaries of Viktor Klemperer. He was a German Jew (newly defined as such under the race laws), married to a gentile, who survived the war via the Dresden firebombing. The diaries address the creeping racism in Germany in the 1930s and through the war in exquisite, terrifying detail - he had a foot in both communities and a knack for the telling observation.
After the war, in 1957, he wrote a book, Language in the Third Reich, which dissects, Orwell-style, how words were warped for political gain.
posted by Rumple at 5:03 PM on November 28, 2020 [6 favorites]
After the war, in 1957, he wrote a book, Language in the Third Reich, which dissects, Orwell-style, how words were warped for political gain.
posted by Rumple at 5:03 PM on November 28, 2020 [6 favorites]
Who here recommends going straight to the original text, Mein Kampf
Not me -- never tried, never bothered. By all reports it's difficult, muddled writing; and unlike almost any novel set in, or non-fiction about the period, the madman's actual ravings don't interest me. Life's too short -- you'll encounter quotes in some of that non-fiction, that's enough.
Often mentioned with Hitler's Willing Executioners (which isn't universally recommended) is another book that came out around the same time, Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men.
posted by Rash at 5:04 PM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Not me -- never tried, never bothered. By all reports it's difficult, muddled writing; and unlike almost any novel set in, or non-fiction about the period, the madman's actual ravings don't interest me. Life's too short -- you'll encounter quotes in some of that non-fiction, that's enough.
Often mentioned with Hitler's Willing Executioners (which isn't universally recommended) is another book that came out around the same time, Christopher Browning's Ordinary Men.
posted by Rash at 5:04 PM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Who here recommends going straight to the original text, Mein Kampf, to directly see and understand and better recognize the kinds of thinking and psychology that leads to fascism, rather than (or supplemental to) second-hand and third-hand depictions and analysis?
Well, sure, if you wanted to study the period seriously, you'd have to read the whole thing, probably in German. But if you were to read only one book, I actually think that a high-quality narrative history like the Richard Evans would teach you more about how Nazism took power. If your interest is mostly in the psychology of fascism maybe it wouldn't be what you want.
Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Goldhagen is also an excellent telling of the rise of Nazism and the events of WW2.
FYI, I think it is controversial among historians, and there are some who seem to hold it in pretty low regard. I think one dispute is over whether it adequately supports its concept of "eliminationist anti-Semitism" as a principle of explanation, but there may be others.
posted by thelonius at 5:09 PM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Well, sure, if you wanted to study the period seriously, you'd have to read the whole thing, probably in German. But if you were to read only one book, I actually think that a high-quality narrative history like the Richard Evans would teach you more about how Nazism took power. If your interest is mostly in the psychology of fascism maybe it wouldn't be what you want.
Hitler's Willing Executioners by Daniel Goldhagen is also an excellent telling of the rise of Nazism and the events of WW2.
FYI, I think it is controversial among historians, and there are some who seem to hold it in pretty low regard. I think one dispute is over whether it adequately supports its concept of "eliminationist anti-Semitism" as a principle of explanation, but there may be others.
posted by thelonius at 5:09 PM on November 28, 2020 [2 favorites]
Just before this past election I read this book: Hitler, Ascent 1889-1939 and had to make an effort to hold back the despair.
posted by Pembquist at 5:12 PM on November 28, 2020
posted by Pembquist at 5:12 PM on November 28, 2020
I've been particularly interested in hearing from Germans in the era about how they recognized and dealt with Nazis around them... as opposed to the usual narratives which are mostly about fighting nazi soldiers from the outside.
Shortly before Kristallnacht, my great-grandfather was informed by one of the local party heads that as a wealthy/well-respected citizen of (some small town near Leipzig), his participation was required. His initial "Sorry, not interested." was met with a "No, you are interested."
Morning prior, around 5AM he loaded my grandmother and her siblings into the back of the family car and drove to his mother's place out in the sticks. Came back a couple days later, small delegation from the party shows up to ask him what, precisely the fuck, was unclear in their previous exchange? "Oh, sorry but my mother was severely ill and we thought it might be the last chance for the kids to see her."
Minimum viable compliance is not the stuff of Schindler's List. It isn't uplifting to read about or how you get moving stories written about you: it's how you survive. It's a litany of "dog ate my homework" bullshit and when finally forced to obeying compulsory Hitler Youth membership laws to keep your family from getting disappeared like the neighbors were. Or if you're joining the Wehrmacht to avoid SS conscription (like a slew of my grandparents' siblings and uncles), it's how you minimize your participation in genocide before getting buried in the same unmarked mass grave as the hardcore racists.
There's no victory to be had, moral or otherwise, only varying degrees of loss.
Even if you successfully hid from the final wave of SS conscription when they began rounding up 14-year-olds, as my grandfather did and Pope Benedict didn't, any sense of relief or clear conscience from having avoided the fighting and (suddenly very public) atrocities immediately gave way to the reality of mass starvation under the Russian occupation.
My grandmother recently celebrated her 89th birthday. She's been absolutely heartbroken by the Trump administration and what it says about the United States. She and my grandfather fled Russia-occupied East Germany in the early 50s - with him getting captured on the first attempt - and one of the reasons they picked the US was that we'd won a war against fascists. They figured fascism wouldn't take hold here. Raising their children and grandchildren to hate fascism and racists (particularly anti-Semites) was something they took incredibly seriously, and now...she hasn't come out and said it but you can tell there are intense feelings of having failed her family. She's also one of the most politically informed people I know (a Maddow/Warren fan despite being an evangelical), and after I post this comment I'm going to give her a call. We won't be talking about the past unless she volunteers it, though, because for nearly every remaining survivor with full command of their mental faculties there's nothing but an ocean of intense childhood trauma to be found back there.
posted by Ryvar at 5:28 PM on November 28, 2020 [73 favorites]
Shortly before Kristallnacht, my great-grandfather was informed by one of the local party heads that as a wealthy/well-respected citizen of (some small town near Leipzig), his participation was required. His initial "Sorry, not interested." was met with a "No, you are interested."
Morning prior, around 5AM he loaded my grandmother and her siblings into the back of the family car and drove to his mother's place out in the sticks. Came back a couple days later, small delegation from the party shows up to ask him what, precisely the fuck, was unclear in their previous exchange? "Oh, sorry but my mother was severely ill and we thought it might be the last chance for the kids to see her."
Minimum viable compliance is not the stuff of Schindler's List. It isn't uplifting to read about or how you get moving stories written about you: it's how you survive. It's a litany of "dog ate my homework" bullshit and when finally forced to obeying compulsory Hitler Youth membership laws to keep your family from getting disappeared like the neighbors were. Or if you're joining the Wehrmacht to avoid SS conscription (like a slew of my grandparents' siblings and uncles), it's how you minimize your participation in genocide before getting buried in the same unmarked mass grave as the hardcore racists.
There's no victory to be had, moral or otherwise, only varying degrees of loss.
Even if you successfully hid from the final wave of SS conscription when they began rounding up 14-year-olds, as my grandfather did and Pope Benedict didn't, any sense of relief or clear conscience from having avoided the fighting and (suddenly very public) atrocities immediately gave way to the reality of mass starvation under the Russian occupation.
My grandmother recently celebrated her 89th birthday. She's been absolutely heartbroken by the Trump administration and what it says about the United States. She and my grandfather fled Russia-occupied East Germany in the early 50s - with him getting captured on the first attempt - and one of the reasons they picked the US was that we'd won a war against fascists. They figured fascism wouldn't take hold here. Raising their children and grandchildren to hate fascism and racists (particularly anti-Semites) was something they took incredibly seriously, and now...she hasn't come out and said it but you can tell there are intense feelings of having failed her family. She's also one of the most politically informed people I know (a Maddow/Warren fan despite being an evangelical), and after I post this comment I'm going to give her a call. We won't be talking about the past unless she volunteers it, though, because for nearly every remaining survivor with full command of their mental faculties there's nothing but an ocean of intense childhood trauma to be found back there.
posted by Ryvar at 5:28 PM on November 28, 2020 [73 favorites]
I read Mein Kampf in English when I was in secondary school, leant to me by my history teacher. I was semi-concerned that I would come out the other end a concert (the same reason I haven’t quite been able to go and see what happens in the word Scientologist screening stations in London) but luckily I want the target audience and it just came across as a bit ranty and dull. I want to say it was occasionally horrifying, but I honestly can’t remember. I was slogging through it, as I never liked to not finish a book, but then realised that it would be a nice tiny gesture to just not bother with the ending because it was so stupid. I am pleased to say that I ended up not becoming a Nazi, but I wouldn’t recommend reading it.
posted by fizban at 11:53 PM on November 28, 2020
posted by fizban at 11:53 PM on November 28, 2020
Other personal narratives:
Victor Klemperer's diaries, I Will Bear Witness (1933 - 1941), To the Bitter End (1942 - 1945). 1942:
Victor Klemperer's diaries, I Will Bear Witness (1933 - 1941), To the Bitter End (1942 - 1945). 1942:
I am German, and still waiting for the Germans to come back; they have gone to ground somewhereFriedrich Kellner, My Opposition, covering 1939 - 1945:
I could not fight the Nazis in the present, as they had the power to still my voice, so I decided to fight them in the future. I would give the coming generations a weapon against any resurgence of such evil. My eyewitness account would record the barbarous acts, and also show the way to stop them.posted by away for regrooving at 1:33 AM on November 29, 2020 [4 favorites]
The 160-bit number 5bb4aa236004be00fa51ba64a014033d40143033 might be of interest to people unable to obtain Rise of the Nazis from any of the geo-blocked sources.
posted by flabdablet at 7:32 AM on November 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 7:32 AM on November 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
Two things struck me when watching the 3 episodes:
1. There were many, many times when Hitler was down or easily stoppable but he made it through because people underestimated him. Never underestimate the power of a fool in politics, or count him out.
2. He had a lot of enablers, as we say nowadays. The two lawyers they show as trying to stop him through legal means were stopped themselves by bureaucrats higher up who sympathized with Hitler. The police seem to have been entirely Nazis. In fact all individual actions against the Nazi rise appear to have been futile, especially given their ruthlessness. This is the part that has me most worried for the future of the US, since it seems that the police and the military are so full of right wing extremists, the courts have been stuffed with conservative/partisan judges, and militias still exist and far-right propaganda is still in full swing.
Gotta say also I found the ominous music throughout super distracting. Do people really need the extra cues to feel worried?
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:41 AM on November 29, 2020 [8 favorites]
1. There were many, many times when Hitler was down or easily stoppable but he made it through because people underestimated him. Never underestimate the power of a fool in politics, or count him out.
2. He had a lot of enablers, as we say nowadays. The two lawyers they show as trying to stop him through legal means were stopped themselves by bureaucrats higher up who sympathized with Hitler. The police seem to have been entirely Nazis. In fact all individual actions against the Nazi rise appear to have been futile, especially given their ruthlessness. This is the part that has me most worried for the future of the US, since it seems that the police and the military are so full of right wing extremists, the courts have been stuffed with conservative/partisan judges, and militias still exist and far-right propaganda is still in full swing.
Gotta say also I found the ominous music throughout super distracting. Do people really need the extra cues to feel worried?
posted by maggiemaggie at 7:41 AM on November 29, 2020 [8 favorites]
Not to say that individual actions are useless, just that they need to be supported by others; not even in an organized way.
One relief has been Republican judges, state secretaries, et al who've been throwing out Trump's lawsuits.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:45 AM on November 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
One relief has been Republican judges, state secretaries, et al who've been throwing out Trump's lawsuits.
posted by maggiemaggie at 8:45 AM on November 29, 2020 [2 favorites]
trying to stop him through legal means were stopped themselves by bureaucrats higher up who sympathized
Haven't got that far so dunno if it's mentioned but Germany could've easily stopped Hitler by deporting him instead of putting him in jail, since he was an Austrian national. He didn't become a German (sorry, Flula) until 1932.
posted by Rash at 9:31 AM on November 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
Haven't got that far so dunno if it's mentioned but Germany could've easily stopped Hitler by deporting him instead of putting him in jail, since he was an Austrian national. He didn't become a German (sorry, Flula) until 1932.
posted by Rash at 9:31 AM on November 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
There are corners of UK television that are 24/7 WWII history documentaries, so the British people have access to all the Nazi history they can eat
Gotta say also I found the ominous music throughout super distracting. Do people really need the extra cues to feel worried?
I've had some (unwilling) exposure to these engineering documentaries and the thing I find most unsettling in them is how enthusiastic the narrator sounds about anything built by Nazis. I'd prefer ominous music over that guy's energy.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 10:53 AM on November 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
Gotta say also I found the ominous music throughout super distracting. Do people really need the extra cues to feel worried?
I've had some (unwilling) exposure to these engineering documentaries and the thing I find most unsettling in them is how enthusiastic the narrator sounds about anything built by Nazis. I'd prefer ominous music over that guy's energy.
posted by polytope subirb enby-of-piano-dice at 10:53 AM on November 29, 2020 [3 favorites]
I rather like the music; it's the goddam hand-held shaky-cam in some of the re-enactments that's making this a little difficult for me to watch.
posted by Rash at 11:23 AM on November 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Rash at 11:23 AM on November 29, 2020 [1 favorite]
I remember, about four years ago, reading a piece that counselled not being alarmed about rize of Nazism parallels, because the Weimar Republic was always weak and always fatally compromised (for example, their obligations to pay both veteran's benefits and war reparations made it impossible for them to deflate their currency, as the other major war nations did after 1918, which helped cause the hyperinflation crisis in the 1920's; in general, it was a compromise government to stave off the civil war and revolution that was actually starting to happen in the immediate post-war period, the right wing hated it, the Communists hated it, no one loved it except the Social Democrats, who the Communists also hated; open brawling and murder by the street toughs of the various parties was common, and so on) .
So the idea was, we, in contrast, have a strong, functioning democracy, that everyone is fundamentally committed to, and it would be far harder to take over as dictator here by the kind of methods that worked in 1933. I am not sure how well this has aged. Recent events have shown how vulnerable our ramshackle system could be to a determined attacker, and, while state and local officials from the Republican party have shown great integrity and commitment to the law in their conduct of the post-election period, their national party has clearly shown that it is willing and ready to throw off the shackles of that strong, functioning democracy, if it enables them to consolidate their power.
posted by thelonius at 1:19 PM on November 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
So the idea was, we, in contrast, have a strong, functioning democracy, that everyone is fundamentally committed to, and it would be far harder to take over as dictator here by the kind of methods that worked in 1933. I am not sure how well this has aged. Recent events have shown how vulnerable our ramshackle system could be to a determined attacker, and, while state and local officials from the Republican party have shown great integrity and commitment to the law in their conduct of the post-election period, their national party has clearly shown that it is willing and ready to throw off the shackles of that strong, functioning democracy, if it enables them to consolidate their power.
posted by thelonius at 1:19 PM on November 29, 2020 [6 favorites]
America Through Nazi Eyes — The most radical Nazis were the most aggressive champions of U.S. law. Where they found the U.S. example lacking, it was because they thought it was too harsh.: Omer Aziz, Dissent Magazine, Winter 2019 [this article is a review of the following book]:
From the standpoint of how domestic law can adversely affect foreign relations, there's a more detailed and footnoted review of Hitler's American Model at The Outcome of Influence: Hitler’s American Model and and Transnational Legal History (PDF), Mary L. Dudziak, Emory University School of Law; Michigan Law Review, Volume 117 Issue 6 2019.
posted by cenoxo at 7:47 PM on November 29, 2020 [13 favorites]
Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race LawMore in the article. You may never know (until it's too late) who's paying attention to your laws in order to justify and amplify their own actions.
James Q. Whitman [bio], Princeton University Press, 2017
In September 1933, an important policy document known as the Prussian Memorandum began circulating among lawmakers and jurists of the Third Reich. The Nazi regime was still in its infancy; Hitler had been named chancellor just nine months prior, the result of a power-sharing arrangement with nationalist conservatives who thought they could control the mercurial Austrian. Following the Reichstag Fire in February of that year, Hitler had assumed emergency powers and within weeks usurped the authority of the parliament. By that critical autumn, the Third Reich had begun Nazifying the German legal code. The Prussian Memorandum that passed between Nazi legal hands was an early blueprint for the 1935 Nuremberg Laws, which stripped Jews of their citizenship and criminalized sexual relations between Germans and those thought to have impure blood. It was the foundational text of Nazi legal thinking. Incredibly, the Prussian Memorandum expressly cited the gold standard of racist lawmaking at the time: the United States of America.
The following summer, on June 5, 1934, Nazi lawyers, jurists, and medical doctors gathered under the auspices of Justice Minister Franz Gürtner to discuss how to codify the Prussian Memorandum. The very first item discussed was U.S. law: “Almost all the American states have race legislation,” Gürtner averred, before detailing a myriad of examples, including the many states that criminalized mixed marriages. Roland Freisler, the murderous Nazi judge, stated at the meeting that U.S. jurisprudence would “suit us perfectly.” All the participants displayed either an eager interest in, or an avowed knowledge of, U.S. law...
From the standpoint of how domestic law can adversely affect foreign relations, there's a more detailed and footnoted review of Hitler's American Model at The Outcome of Influence: Hitler’s American Model and and Transnational Legal History (PDF), Mary L. Dudziak, Emory University School of Law; Michigan Law Review, Volume 117 Issue 6 2019.
posted by cenoxo at 7:47 PM on November 29, 2020 [13 favorites]
Can anyone recommend books about the postwar period, i.e. whatever successes and challenges there were in returning Germany to liberal democracy after the Nazi atrocities?
posted by HeroZero at 8:21 AM on November 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by HeroZero at 8:21 AM on November 30, 2020 [3 favorites]
I am not sure how well this has aged. Recent events have shown how vulnerable our ramshackle system could be to a determined attacker.
What’s the closest he’s come to winning anything, though? The Wayne County election board threatening to go rogue? I feel in some ways this election has actually shown some resilience of our mess of a decentralized system of government. If the election were closer it would be a problem, but we’ve seen that before (which is an example of where the system is not resilient, because the balance of the whole thing can hinge on a single state).
This is the part that has me most worried for the future of the US, since it seems that the police and the military are so full of right wing extremists
On the other hand, I worry about the QAanon Cops, uh, a lot. I don’t feel like Trump really has the military on his side, though (or the civilian state security apparatus) which is usually pretty key to successful authoritarian takeovers. For the future - who knows!
posted by atoxyl at 10:28 AM on November 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
What’s the closest he’s come to winning anything, though? The Wayne County election board threatening to go rogue? I feel in some ways this election has actually shown some resilience of our mess of a decentralized system of government. If the election were closer it would be a problem, but we’ve seen that before (which is an example of where the system is not resilient, because the balance of the whole thing can hinge on a single state).
This is the part that has me most worried for the future of the US, since it seems that the police and the military are so full of right wing extremists
On the other hand, I worry about the QAanon Cops, uh, a lot. I don’t feel like Trump really has the military on his side, though (or the civilian state security apparatus) which is usually pretty key to successful authoritarian takeovers. For the future - who knows!
posted by atoxyl at 10:28 AM on November 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
HeroZero — you could start with Wikipedia's Denazification article (and check out its "Further Reading" section). One book that's received good reviews is Exorcising Hitler: The Occupation and Denazification of Germany by Frederick Taylor.
posted by cenoxo at 11:26 AM on November 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by cenoxo at 11:26 AM on November 30, 2020 [1 favorite]
Some more about the immediate post-war period:
Non-fiction
Non-fiction
- Savage Continent by Keith Lowe
- Endgame, 1945 by David Stafford
- Armageddon by Leon Uris
Nazism as an ultra rightwing political movement never went away and still festers like a cankerous sore.
Dec 1 Germany bans far-right, pro-Nazi group; Police raid homes.
here still appear to be plenty of places around Germany where far-right hatred and incitement are rife. (Related)
posted by adamvasco at 4:45 AM on December 4, 2020
Dec 1 Germany bans far-right, pro-Nazi group; Police raid homes.
here still appear to be plenty of places around Germany where far-right hatred and incitement are rife. (Related)
posted by adamvasco at 4:45 AM on December 4, 2020
In the U.S., there is some serious psychological coping-mechanism denialism going on right now, all the way across society, even among stalwart anti-Trumpists, about the resurgence of open Nazism.
Literally just a few minutes ago I was having a discussion with an old friend (high-school-vintage old friend, more than a quarter century's acquaintance, some philosophical differences but nothing we haven't eventually been able to iron out over the years) where we started off in a discussion of how, late last year, the pastor / founder of a Florida-based online “news” network declared the impeachment process (a legal, constitutional process even in the opinion of pro-Trump expert constitutional law witness John Turley, and presumably also Fox News who published that post-Republican-Senate-RICO-Act-participation opinion) to be a “Jew coup” anti-Semitic conspiracy. And, of course, that media organization's White House press credentials were renewed for the Davos conference at the beginning of this year, anyways. The whole incident garnered world-wide press coverage, particularly of interest in Israel of course.
So the conversation with my friend—who I've discussed things like the Protocols of Zion, the history of Nazi Germany, and the Holocaust with over the years, who has shown not the slightest hint of pro-Nazi or anti-Semitic tendencies, and who enthusiastically and contemptuously condemned the Florida media organization in question—went from the topic of the White House extending press credentials to the “Jew coup” media outlet, to broader U.S. political topics. I used the word “Nazi” to characterize contemporary political behavior, once; my friend rolled his eyes and changed the subject. Fortunately, I'll be seeing him again around Christmastime, and after writing this comment, and reading for myself how ludicrous it sounds, I am determined to avail myself of the opportunity to bring this matter up, even if I have to do so in front of his family at a holiday party.
We are standing on the train tracks, gazing at the clouds with our AirPods in and the volume cranked up.
Lurking on MeFi during the past half-decade before I finally created an account about two months ago, I read comments from Jewish U.S. MeFites who said that they were emigrating. I respected their decisions, and saw legitimate safety concerns, yet at the time thought it was a tad of an overreaction; but they were about 1933% right.
(I mean, so, to try to forestall any quibbles—you can legitimately argue that Trump &co. have not articulated every doctrine of the twentieth-century European Nazis. But “Nazi” in this context is not being used merely as a pejorative, its use is based on actual, extremely concrete parallels between behavior and circumstances then and now.)
posted by Charles Bronson Pinchot at 5:52 AM on December 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
Literally just a few minutes ago I was having a discussion with an old friend (high-school-vintage old friend, more than a quarter century's acquaintance, some philosophical differences but nothing we haven't eventually been able to iron out over the years) where we started off in a discussion of how, late last year, the pastor / founder of a Florida-based online “news” network declared the impeachment process (a legal, constitutional process even in the opinion of pro-Trump expert constitutional law witness John Turley, and presumably also Fox News who published that post-Republican-Senate-RICO-Act-participation opinion) to be a “Jew coup” anti-Semitic conspiracy. And, of course, that media organization's White House press credentials were renewed for the Davos conference at the beginning of this year, anyways. The whole incident garnered world-wide press coverage, particularly of interest in Israel of course.
So the conversation with my friend—who I've discussed things like the Protocols of Zion, the history of Nazi Germany, and the Holocaust with over the years, who has shown not the slightest hint of pro-Nazi or anti-Semitic tendencies, and who enthusiastically and contemptuously condemned the Florida media organization in question—went from the topic of the White House extending press credentials to the “Jew coup” media outlet, to broader U.S. political topics. I used the word “Nazi” to characterize contemporary political behavior, once; my friend rolled his eyes and changed the subject. Fortunately, I'll be seeing him again around Christmastime, and after writing this comment, and reading for myself how ludicrous it sounds, I am determined to avail myself of the opportunity to bring this matter up, even if I have to do so in front of his family at a holiday party.
We are standing on the train tracks, gazing at the clouds with our AirPods in and the volume cranked up.
Lurking on MeFi during the past half-decade before I finally created an account about two months ago, I read comments from Jewish U.S. MeFites who said that they were emigrating. I respected their decisions, and saw legitimate safety concerns, yet at the time thought it was a tad of an overreaction; but they were about 1933% right.
(I mean, so, to try to forestall any quibbles—you can legitimately argue that Trump &co. have not articulated every doctrine of the twentieth-century European Nazis. But “Nazi” in this context is not being used merely as a pejorative, its use is based on actual, extremely concrete parallels between behavior and circumstances then and now.)
posted by Charles Bronson Pinchot at 5:52 AM on December 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
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At the time of Trump's inauguration the BBC ran late-night repeats of the 1997 series The Nazis: A Warning from History, which drew complaints from one or two fash-curious newspaper columnists that the national broadcaster was attempting to brainwash people into thinking that electing authoritarian right-wingers might not go well for the country concerned.
So it was good to see them come out with this last year. It's excellent, particularly the parts focusing on the attempts by some incredibly brave lawyers to fight rearguard actions against the Nazi regime in the courts; I've thought of them every time a similar struggle has taken place in the US or UK.
Trump/Brexit sympathisers here still complained bitterly about it, especially its inclusion of Ash Sarkar among the commentators, which is a testament to what an important and compelling voice she is.
If you're wondering whether to watch the series, don't hesitate.
posted by rory at 1:25 AM on November 28, 2020 [27 favorites]