Elliot Page Is Trans
December 1, 2020 10:35 AM Subscribe
Oscar-nominated actor Elliot Page announces that he is transgender. Variety also posted an article about his announcement.
@daniel_m_lavery: Elliot!!!!!! we did it boys!!!
So much happy out there at this moment.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:45 AM on December 1, 2020 [16 favorites]
So much happy out there at this moment.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:45 AM on December 1, 2020 [16 favorites]
What a lovely but also heartbreaking Twitter post. “My joy is real, but it is also fragile.”
I have followed Elliot since Marion Bridge, a beautiful but little known film outside of Canada. I wish him all the best and look forward to his upcoming work.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:47 AM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
I have followed Elliot since Marion Bridge, a beautiful but little known film outside of Canada. I wish him all the best and look forward to his upcoming work.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 10:47 AM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
I remember seeing Hard Candy in the theater and being blown away by his performance and have enjoyed his work over the years. I've yet to see Umbrella Academy so I'll have to rectify that soon.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 10:53 AM on December 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
Warning: the twitter thread (first link) has a lot of really hateful posts (as to be expected, sadly)
posted by mkuhnell at 10:57 AM on December 1, 2020
posted by mkuhnell at 10:57 AM on December 1, 2020
I can't, offhand, recall Twitter seamlessly switching over an account and all of its content to reflect a life change before. Maybe they have, for married names or even for other trans people and it just didn't register. It's nice though.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:06 AM on December 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 11:06 AM on December 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
I have so many terfs and other assorted transphobes blocked that I scrolled through many pages of congratulations without seeing a single negative response.
posted by Tabitha Someday at 11:09 AM on December 1, 2020 [82 favorites]
posted by Tabitha Someday at 11:09 AM on December 1, 2020 [82 favorites]
This is such amazing news - not just that Elliot has found such comfort, but that a famous/outward facing person feel they can make such a change in their life and remain a public figure.
And maybe now we can finally stop propping up Caitlyn Jenner as the most famous person ever to publicly transition. Congratulations and good luck, Elliot; the eyes are all on you now.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2020 [37 favorites]
And maybe now we can finally stop propping up Caitlyn Jenner as the most famous person ever to publicly transition. Congratulations and good luck, Elliot; the eyes are all on you now.
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:19 AM on December 1, 2020 [37 favorites]
I can't, offhand, recall Twitter seamlessly switching over an account and all of its content to reflect a life change before. Maybe they have, for married names or even for other trans people and it just didn't register. It's nice though.
I had the same reaction, with my focus especially on the way Wikipedia was so thoroughly edited immediately and the headlines I read (I went to 3 pages of google results) used Elliott's chosen name and pronouns. I was surprised to see it happen so quickly, so uniformly. I had a comment typed up to that effect earlier but deleted without posting because I thought it was probably just me.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 11:26 AM on December 1, 2020 [16 favorites]
I had the same reaction, with my focus especially on the way Wikipedia was so thoroughly edited immediately and the headlines I read (I went to 3 pages of google results) used Elliott's chosen name and pronouns. I was surprised to see it happen so quickly, so uniformly. I had a comment typed up to that effect earlier but deleted without posting because I thought it was probably just me.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 11:26 AM on December 1, 2020 [16 favorites]
This news makes me so happy.
It is so so important for people to see an example of someone who is an adult and has an established career who announces their transition. Yes, you really can say "This is my new name, these are my new pronouns" and most people will respect that and start using them right away. You can acknowledge that, yes, my old name is on a lot of old stuff, everyone knows it, I can't wipe it away, but you still shouldn't use it to refer to me anymore, even talking about something I did in the past.
For someone who isn't trans to see how a transition announcement goes, and what information they are entitled to (not very much! Just the name and pronouns). And how simple the change really is (because once you know how much is none of your business, the change for you really is just name and pronouns). None of it is "political correctness", it's being polite and respecting others.
And for the person who is trans and not out, just seeing that it is all possible means so so much. Yep its going to take some planning. It might be awkward visibly changing in public and it's gonna suck a bit that your old name is out there, but also it's okay. And it's worth it.
Thank you Elliot and congrats!
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 11:41 AM on December 1, 2020 [55 favorites]
It is so so important for people to see an example of someone who is an adult and has an established career who announces their transition. Yes, you really can say "This is my new name, these are my new pronouns" and most people will respect that and start using them right away. You can acknowledge that, yes, my old name is on a lot of old stuff, everyone knows it, I can't wipe it away, but you still shouldn't use it to refer to me anymore, even talking about something I did in the past.
For someone who isn't trans to see how a transition announcement goes, and what information they are entitled to (not very much! Just the name and pronouns). And how simple the change really is (because once you know how much is none of your business, the change for you really is just name and pronouns). None of it is "political correctness", it's being polite and respecting others.
And for the person who is trans and not out, just seeing that it is all possible means so so much. Yep its going to take some planning. It might be awkward visibly changing in public and it's gonna suck a bit that your old name is out there, but also it's okay. And it's worth it.
Thank you Elliot and congrats!
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 11:41 AM on December 1, 2020 [55 favorites]
This is cool.
posted by medusa at 11:43 AM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by medusa at 11:43 AM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
Congrats to Elliot, and props for being willing to share this with the world. Here's to a day when coming out as trans isn't even newsworthy.
posted by jzb at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jzb at 12:02 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
IIRC it's always been possible to change your Twitter name - is it different for verified accounts?
Wikipedia has been impressive, though. As has the headlines referring to something like "Elliot Page, star of Juno and The Umbrella Academy" in order to help us know who they're referring to without deadnaming him.
posted by madcaptenor at 12:03 PM on December 1, 2020 [25 favorites]
Wikipedia has been impressive, though. As has the headlines referring to something like "Elliot Page, star of Juno and The Umbrella Academy" in order to help us know who they're referring to without deadnaming him.
posted by madcaptenor at 12:03 PM on December 1, 2020 [25 favorites]
Every time another person in the public eye is able to come out as trans it makes the world a better place for everyone. It just makes me so so so happy for him to live authentically, and for everyone like him who can see that they don't have to hide.
posted by Braeburn at 12:15 PM on December 1, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by Braeburn at 12:15 PM on December 1, 2020 [12 favorites]
As has the headlines referring to something like "Elliot Page, star of Juno and The Umbrella Academy" in order to help us know who they're referring to without deadnaming him.
I saw a few "formerly known as" type comments referring to his deadname, and I was curious about that. GLAAD put out a media tipsheet that basically said this was okay initially, when the news was very new, but should no longer be done after the public can be expected to know. I much preferred headlines who chose to reference his work rather than his deadname, as a way to give me the reference that I did need to know who we were talking about. I thought that referring to his work was better writing, better editing, more thoughtful, intelligent and more useful frankly. In part because of setting the example for other people - better to set the example of not deadnaming than to do it even if it is 'technically' (at least according to GLAAD) permissible for now. 'Technically correct' is not always the best kind of correct, sometimes it can sort of be a floor to sink to.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 12:19 PM on December 1, 2020 [28 favorites]
I saw a few "formerly known as" type comments referring to his deadname, and I was curious about that. GLAAD put out a media tipsheet that basically said this was okay initially, when the news was very new, but should no longer be done after the public can be expected to know. I much preferred headlines who chose to reference his work rather than his deadname, as a way to give me the reference that I did need to know who we were talking about. I thought that referring to his work was better writing, better editing, more thoughtful, intelligent and more useful frankly. In part because of setting the example for other people - better to set the example of not deadnaming than to do it even if it is 'technically' (at least according to GLAAD) permissible for now. 'Technically correct' is not always the best kind of correct, sometimes it can sort of be a floor to sink to.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 12:19 PM on December 1, 2020 [28 favorites]
Somewhat off topic, it's odd to me that his role in Inception is relegated to "also appeared in" status. That's what I would expect most people know him for, moreso than Juno and Umbrella Academy.
posted by schoolgirl report at 12:20 PM on December 1, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by schoolgirl report at 12:20 PM on December 1, 2020 [8 favorites]
Elliott was a regular feature at my workplace, since he had recorded a series of (quirky, Canadian) commercials for some of the company's products; the commercials were regularly playing on the internal display monitors on campus. YT: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. They really brightened up the somewhat lonely after-hours security patrols.
I hope that he continues to find sucess and happiness.
posted by JDC8 at 12:24 PM on December 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
I hope that he continues to find sucess and happiness.
posted by JDC8 at 12:24 PM on December 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
I have trans and queer friends who used to be fairly active in the Wikipedia editing scene who were more or less run off the site a few years ago for wanting to make the sorts of changes which have been made so swiftly and clearly today. It feels strange to have that as a mark of progress, but here we are, I suppose.
I'm really happy for Elliott and I hope that he's somewhere very far away from the internet today.
posted by fight or flight at 12:28 PM on December 1, 2020 [17 favorites]
I'm really happy for Elliott and I hope that he's somewhere very far away from the internet today.
posted by fight or flight at 12:28 PM on December 1, 2020 [17 favorites]
I was just listening to Number 10 David Tennant's podcast interview with Ian McKellen (from 2019) this morning, and Ian talks a lot about being queer (his word) as a young man in a very different world. It's terrific Elliot can be who he wants to be.
posted by Glinn at 12:32 PM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Glinn at 12:32 PM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
Somewhat off topic, it's odd to me that his role in Inception is relegated to "also appeared in" status. That's what I would expect most people know him for, moreso than Juno and Umbrella Academy.
Well, Umbrella Academy is much more recent--that's what he's been in the public eye for most recently, for sure. (And I admit that one of my first reactions was to wonder what they were going to do with his character on UA, although I realized that it might make for an interesting storyline and/or would probably fit tidily into the UA world without much of a blip.)
posted by dlugoczaj at 12:34 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
Well, Umbrella Academy is much more recent--that's what he's been in the public eye for most recently, for sure. (And I admit that one of my first reactions was to wonder what they were going to do with his character on UA, although I realized that it might make for an interesting storyline and/or would probably fit tidily into the UA world without much of a blip.)
posted by dlugoczaj at 12:34 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I can't, offhand, recall Twitter seamlessly switching over an account and all of its content to reflect a life change before. Maybe they have, for married names or even for other trans people and it just didn't register. It's nice though.
If you hire competent PR people and give them a heads up on what's coming down it's not that hard to do. Most of the time both of those assumptions aren't really true.
posted by jmauro at 12:37 PM on December 1, 2020
If you hire competent PR people and give them a heads up on what's coming down it's not that hard to do. Most of the time both of those assumptions aren't really true.
posted by jmauro at 12:37 PM on December 1, 2020
IIRC it's always been possible to change your Twitter name - is it different for verified accounts?
It's easy to change your displayed name on Twitter (people do it all the time just for temporary things like holidays), but changing your underlying Twitter handle (Elliot's changed from, IIRC, @EllenPage to @TheElliotPage) probably requires help from someone at Twitter, at least to seamlessly transfer over all your old tweets.
Anyways, I find myself not very surprised by this news, but I am very happy for him and proud of him.
Somewhat off topic, it's odd to me that his role in Inception is relegated to "also appeared in" status. That's what I would expect most people know him for, moreso than Juno and Umbrella Academy.
Elliot was really the "star" of Juno though (the title role, after all), whereas Inception was more of an ensemble cast. Elliot gets third billing on IMDB (which also appears to have seamlessly switched everything, good for them!*) after Leo and Joseph-Gordon Levitt. Umbrella Academy is his most-recent/currently-ongoing work, and referencing what they're currently appearing in is pretty much obligatory for articles about actors. I've seen X-Men headlined in a few places as well, which, although it was another ensemble role (and many of us would prefer to forget Last Stand exists), Days of Future Past came out 4 years more recently than Inception. (Also, man, Inception was 10 years ago? When did that happen?)
*I'm sure it helps that Elliot has the privilege of being able to afford to have a whole media/PR team handholding these companies like IMDB and Twitter through how to handle things; but that, in itself, is a blessing to everyone who may have to go through the process after him; now that these companies have handled things smoothly once, one hopes they'll have an easier time getting it right in the future. Let's hear it for using one's privilege to help the less fortunate!
posted by mstokes650 at 12:39 PM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
It's easy to change your displayed name on Twitter (people do it all the time just for temporary things like holidays), but changing your underlying Twitter handle (Elliot's changed from, IIRC, @EllenPage to @TheElliotPage) probably requires help from someone at Twitter, at least to seamlessly transfer over all your old tweets.
Anyways, I find myself not very surprised by this news, but I am very happy for him and proud of him.
Somewhat off topic, it's odd to me that his role in Inception is relegated to "also appeared in" status. That's what I would expect most people know him for, moreso than Juno and Umbrella Academy.
Elliot was really the "star" of Juno though (the title role, after all), whereas Inception was more of an ensemble cast. Elliot gets third billing on IMDB (which also appears to have seamlessly switched everything, good for them!*) after Leo and Joseph-Gordon Levitt. Umbrella Academy is his most-recent/currently-ongoing work, and referencing what they're currently appearing in is pretty much obligatory for articles about actors. I've seen X-Men headlined in a few places as well, which, although it was another ensemble role (and many of us would prefer to forget Last Stand exists), Days of Future Past came out 4 years more recently than Inception. (Also, man, Inception was 10 years ago? When did that happen?)
*I'm sure it helps that Elliot has the privilege of being able to afford to have a whole media/PR team handholding these companies like IMDB and Twitter through how to handle things; but that, in itself, is a blessing to everyone who may have to go through the process after him; now that these companies have handled things smoothly once, one hopes they'll have an easier time getting it right in the future. Let's hear it for using one's privilege to help the less fortunate!
posted by mstokes650 at 12:39 PM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
And maybe now we can finally stop propping up Caitlyn Jenner as the most famous person ever to publicly transition.
What's Laura Jane Grace? Chopped liver? I think if you do a duet with Miley Cyrus you can call yourself famous.
posted by East14thTaco at 12:45 PM on December 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
What's Laura Jane Grace? Chopped liver? I think if you do a duet with Miley Cyrus you can call yourself famous.
posted by East14thTaco at 12:45 PM on December 1, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'm happy for Elliot and it's a delight to watch everyone who's happy for Elliot. I stan a king.
posted by a Rrose by any other name at 12:46 PM on December 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by a Rrose by any other name at 12:46 PM on December 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think by any reasonable account Caitlyn Jenner is more famous than whoever LJG is, she was famous enough to be brutally mocked on South Park for a season after all :/
posted by thedaniel at 12:49 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by thedaniel at 12:49 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
fame, like beauty, is often a function of the audience. but neither caitlyn jenner nor laura jane grace should be the focus of discussion here.
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:52 PM on December 1, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 12:52 PM on December 1, 2020 [17 favorites]
Hah. He has been my go-to celebrity doppelganger since Juno days, not necessarily because we look so much alike feature by feature but because we just had a similar "vibe". I'm glad he seems to have figured out his gender more than I have :)
posted by potrzebie at 1:06 PM on December 1, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 1:06 PM on December 1, 2020 [15 favorites]
The only reason I'm continuing this tangent is in case anyone here is considering a similar transition and worried about the Twitter question: you can change your handle (the @____) as easily as you can change your display name, though I think it's in "Account Settings" and not "Edit Profile". A couple months ago I did it myself for more "I want a more professional handle for my public account" reasons, and I'm a nobody. It's not creating a new account and transferring things over, it's just changing the handle for your current account which remains fully intact.
Cheers to Elliot (I love that name and that spelling); I'm thrilled to share in the celebration with him and hope he feels happy and safe as can be.
posted by misskaz at 1:07 PM on December 1, 2020 [24 favorites]
Cheers to Elliot (I love that name and that spelling); I'm thrilled to share in the celebration with him and hope he feels happy and safe as can be.
posted by misskaz at 1:07 PM on December 1, 2020 [24 favorites]
And I admit that one of my first reactions was to wonder what they were going to do with his character on UA, although I realized that it might make for an interesting storyline and/or would probably fit tidily into the UA world without much of a blip.
Gerard Way (who co-wrote the comic and is one of the EPs of the show) has said in the past:
Congrats and best wishes to Elliot.
posted by bcd at 1:10 PM on December 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
Gerard Way (who co-wrote the comic and is one of the EPs of the show) has said in the past:
“I have always been extremely sensitive to those that have gender identity issues as I feel like I have gone through it as well, if even on a smaller scale. I have always identified a fair amount with the female gender, and began at a certain point in MCR to express this through my look and performance style. So it’s no surprise that all of my inspirations and style influences were pushing gender boundaries. Freddy Mercury, Bowie, Iggy, early glam, T-Rex. Masculinity to me has always made me feel like it wasn’t right for me.”It seems a pretty safe bet it will be handled well in some fashion. This is good.
Congrats and best wishes to Elliot.
posted by bcd at 1:10 PM on December 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
None of it is "political correctness", it's being polite and respecting others.
This can't be stressed enough. I imagine some people meeting a person for the first time, learning that his name is "Steve" and then just calling him "Thomas" simply because that's the name they want that person to have.
posted by dances with hamsters at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2020 [35 favorites]
This can't be stressed enough. I imagine some people meeting a person for the first time, learning that his name is "Steve" and then just calling him "Thomas" simply because that's the name they want that person to have.
posted by dances with hamsters at 1:13 PM on December 1, 2020 [35 favorites]
I imagine some people meeting a person for the first time, learning that his name is "Steve" and then just calling him "Thomas" simply because that's the name they want that person to have.
Some people actually do this when the person's name is, e.g., Xiaoyu or Olugbenga. It's just as awful as you might imagine.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:17 PM on December 1, 2020 [29 favorites]
Some people actually do this when the person's name is, e.g., Xiaoyu or Olugbenga. It's just as awful as you might imagine.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:17 PM on December 1, 2020 [29 favorites]
This is wonderful. Lovely letter too.
posted by thivaia at 1:27 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by thivaia at 1:27 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
Elliot clearly had worked with Netflix some, which makes sense since he's under contract for UA season 3 at least, but Netflix immediately had two strongly supportive tweets. One was their main account replying to the letter:
posted by skynxnex at 1:55 PM on December 1, 2020 [23 favorites]
So proud of our superhero! WE LOVE YOU ELLIOT! Can't wait to see you return in season 3! 🎻🖤and from one of their more targeted accounts, The Most, quote tweeted Elliot's letter (and their NX Scif-fi account retweeted):
This is Elliot Page. His pronouns are he/they. Endlessly thankful for his honesty, talent, and kindness, and for being someone queer people — and now, especially, trans folks — can see themselves in both onscreen and off.Of course, even without Netflix's support, it was the right thing for Elliot to do, but it's interesting, to me, how completely Netflix came out in support of it.
posted by skynxnex at 1:55 PM on December 1, 2020 [23 favorites]
Somewhat off topic, it's odd to me that his role in Inception is relegated to "also appeared in" status.
Dude's been in a lot of great stuff. Whip It!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:51 PM on December 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
Dude's been in a lot of great stuff. Whip It!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:51 PM on December 1, 2020 [6 favorites]
After the news came out, I went looking for the very moving speech he gave a few years ago about LGBTQ rights (and, incidentally, first came out publically as gay). It was six years ago at the Human Rights Campaign Fund and I found that they've already updated the title and description on Youtube to reflect the name change. I, of course, wouldn't expect anything less from HRCF but I was still pleasantly surprised by their sheer quickness.
posted by mhum at 2:54 PM on December 1, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by mhum at 2:54 PM on December 1, 2020 [8 favorites]
Good on him. And, because I am shallow and thirsty, COME ON, MEDIA, BRING ME SOME FABULOUS QUEER/TRANS/ENBY PHOTO SHOOTS MAKING OUR BOY LOOK FABULOUS.
Also, since Elliot is using they as well as he, I want to see Elliot as the nonbinary character in a film adaptation of "River of Teeth".
posted by rmd1023 at 2:58 PM on December 1, 2020 [15 favorites]
Also, since Elliot is using they as well as he, I want to see Elliot as the nonbinary character in a film adaptation of "River of Teeth".
posted by rmd1023 at 2:58 PM on December 1, 2020 [15 favorites]
CBC has a really nice article about this which is currently the #1 "popular now" (meaning the most people currently reading it) article.
posted by heatherlogan at 3:08 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 3:08 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
The Late Late Show with James Corden hasn't updated the title of the video to reflect Elliot's name change but I thought it'd be interesting to watch given today's announcement. Most of the video is Jenny Slate telling stories of her adolescence so skip to about 2 min in for Elliot Page's anecdote about writing fictional love letters under the name "Jordan."
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 3:15 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 3:15 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm so glad for him.
posted by Pendragon at 3:16 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Pendragon at 3:16 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I apologise in advance for my ignorance, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what "he/they" pronouns mean. Does it mean "he" in the subjective and "they" in the objective? E.g. "Elliot said that he put the boots on themself"?
Or does it mean you can choose whether you want to use "he" or "they"?
posted by zixyer at 3:57 PM on December 1, 2020
Or does it mean you can choose whether you want to use "he" or "they"?
posted by zixyer at 3:57 PM on December 1, 2020
None of it is "political correctness", it's being polite and respecting others.
“political correctness” is what rightwingers call respect not motivated by tradition or deference to hierarchy.
posted by acb at 3:58 PM on December 1, 2020 [56 favorites]
“political correctness” is what rightwingers call respect not motivated by tradition or deference to hierarchy.
posted by acb at 3:58 PM on December 1, 2020 [56 favorites]
Or does it mean you can choose whether you want to use "he" or "they"?
This one. Elliot uses "he/him" or "they/them".
posted by hanov3r at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
This one. Elliot uses "he/him" or "they/them".
posted by hanov3r at 4:03 PM on December 1, 2020 [9 favorites]
Or does it mean you can choose whether you want to use "he" or "they"?
I have always seen it explained as they are okay with either.
Huge congrats to Elliot!
posted by zymil at 4:04 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have always seen it explained as they are okay with either.
Huge congrats to Elliot!
posted by zymil at 4:04 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
I've been in several YouTube comment fights with people dead-naming him. I should know better. Why are people so upset about this ?
posted by Pendragon at 4:06 PM on December 1, 2020
posted by Pendragon at 4:06 PM on December 1, 2020
jk rowling just threw a juno dvd at her butler’s head
posted by the duck by the oboe at 4:17 PM on December 1, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by the duck by the oboe at 4:17 PM on December 1, 2020 [14 favorites]
Good for him, that's not easy, and being such in the public eye can't make it easier. I wish him the best, and huge congratulations.
changing your underlying Twitter handle [...] probably requires help from someone at Twitter
As an aside, I really wish software devs would put more thought into this, it's not *that* hard to design a system that's easy to switch names if you plan a little up front, and names should never be tied to anything used as an important identifier anyway. It becomes a huge pain for people who transition, for people who change their names during marriage / divorce, who decide to use names other than their legal name for various reasons, etc. (I have a similar bug up my ass about companies that neglect accessibility requirements, but that's a whole other story)
posted by mrgoat at 4:36 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
changing your underlying Twitter handle [...] probably requires help from someone at Twitter
As an aside, I really wish software devs would put more thought into this, it's not *that* hard to design a system that's easy to switch names if you plan a little up front, and names should never be tied to anything used as an important identifier anyway. It becomes a huge pain for people who transition, for people who change their names during marriage / divorce, who decide to use names other than their legal name for various reasons, etc. (I have a similar bug up my ass about companies that neglect accessibility requirements, but that's a whole other story)
posted by mrgoat at 4:36 PM on December 1, 2020 [2 favorites]
don't I remember reading about a feature that lets you share blocklists?
Looks pretty simple on a one-to-one basis.
Alternately, there's the BlockBot.
posted by hanov3r at 5:03 PM on December 1, 2020
Looks pretty simple on a one-to-one basis.
Alternately, there's the BlockBot.
posted by hanov3r at 5:03 PM on December 1, 2020
> changing your underlying Twitter handle [...] probably requires help from someone at Twitter
That isn't true. It is very easy to change your Twitter username (the @-name) by just going to https://twitter.com/settings/screen_name in the web client, and it's a similar on mobile: Settings and Privacy/Account/Username on Android, for example. To change your "display" name go to https://twitter.com/settings/profile.
The actual issues are, as far as I know, is two-fold. For verified users you lose your verified badge if you change your user/screen/@-name, but as it seems like he didn't lose it, I assume if you talk with them first it will work fine. (And verified users is a special class and have all sorts of special rules anyway, so seems fine to me basically to avoid people abusing the bluecheck (verified accounts have been suspended for changing their display name for jokes, for example)). The bigger problem which is a real one, for both normal and verified users, is that Twitter does *not* update old references to your @-name. So there still exists that, at the time, were correctly referring to his old @-name (which you can search for), but now @ an username that isn't active/is gone.
Links to particular *tweets* continue to work fine since the tweet ID in the URL is unique so Twitter redirects to the new profile (similar to how https://www.metafilter.com/19/Dogscancom redirects to the first MeFi post we all love).
So, Twitter could be better and backfill/update old profile references, but overall the experience for someone changing names is much, much better than the vast majority of sites on the internet (including MeFi).
posted by skynxnex at 5:55 PM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
That isn't true. It is very easy to change your Twitter username (the @-name) by just going to https://twitter.com/settings/screen_name in the web client, and it's a similar on mobile: Settings and Privacy/Account/Username on Android, for example. To change your "display" name go to https://twitter.com/settings/profile.
The actual issues are, as far as I know, is two-fold. For verified users you lose your verified badge if you change your user/screen/@-name, but as it seems like he didn't lose it, I assume if you talk with them first it will work fine. (And verified users is a special class and have all sorts of special rules anyway, so seems fine to me basically to avoid people abusing the bluecheck (verified accounts have been suspended for changing their display name for jokes, for example)). The bigger problem which is a real one, for both normal and verified users, is that Twitter does *not* update old references to your @-name. So there still exists that, at the time, were correctly referring to his old @-name (which you can search for), but now @ an username that isn't active/is gone.
Links to particular *tweets* continue to work fine since the tweet ID in the URL is unique so Twitter redirects to the new profile (similar to how https://www.metafilter.com/19/Dogscancom redirects to the first MeFi post we all love).
So, Twitter could be better and backfill/update old profile references, but overall the experience for someone changing names is much, much better than the vast majority of sites on the internet (including MeFi).
posted by skynxnex at 5:55 PM on December 1, 2020 [4 favorites]
Anna Madrigal would be so proud, and so am I.
posted by nenequesadilla at 6:51 PM on December 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by nenequesadilla at 6:51 PM on December 1, 2020 [3 favorites]
Yay for Elliot!
Then... some time in late October, I think it was? Some site-wide policy reform process completed (undoubtedly after huge amounts of patient work) and everything seemed to click into place.
Now there's the odd state of affairs that although you still can't talk about racism openly... in that regard it's as if it's 1972 at a Fortune 500 company or something, despite the fact that in actuality it's 2020 in a trans-national volunteer organization that speaks dozens if not hundreds of languages... but if you invoke MOS:DEADNAME over a trans person's article people sit up and pay attention and follow the rules and don't talk back much.
So someone did lots of good work. Though other things aren't great... I had to lay the smack down when someone claimed that “transness” wasn't a word and deleted it—from the opening sentence of the transphobia article, of all places.
I had to thank that guy, though, because in the course of seeking out an even earlier example of "transness" being used in print, once I'd confirmed that Wiktionary had an entry for the word, I found it in the marvelous Digital Transgender Archive.
posted by Charles Bronson Pinchot at 7:16 PM on December 1, 2020 [14 favorites]
- I have trans and queer friends who used to be fairly active in the Wikipedia editing scene who were more or less run off the site a few years ago for wanting to make the sorts of changes which have been made so swiftly and clearly today. It feels strange to have that as a mark of progress, but here we are, I suppose.
Then... some time in late October, I think it was? Some site-wide policy reform process completed (undoubtedly after huge amounts of patient work) and everything seemed to click into place.
Now there's the odd state of affairs that although you still can't talk about racism openly... in that regard it's as if it's 1972 at a Fortune 500 company or something, despite the fact that in actuality it's 2020 in a trans-national volunteer organization that speaks dozens if not hundreds of languages... but if you invoke MOS:DEADNAME over a trans person's article people sit up and pay attention and follow the rules and don't talk back much.
So someone did lots of good work. Though other things aren't great... I had to lay the smack down when someone claimed that “transness” wasn't a word and deleted it—from the opening sentence of the transphobia article, of all places.
I had to thank that guy, though, because in the course of seeking out an even earlier example of "transness" being used in print, once I'd confirmed that Wiktionary had an entry for the word, I found it in the marvelous Digital Transgender Archive.
posted by Charles Bronson Pinchot at 7:16 PM on December 1, 2020 [14 favorites]
This is great: Elliot has always been one of my favourite performers and it is fantastic to hear he can be himself now.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:54 PM on December 1, 2020 [1 favorite]
From his announcement:
"To all the trans people who deal with harassment, self-loathing, abuse, and the threat of violence every day; I love you and I will do everything I can to change this world for the better"
Well now I'm crying. Because having a Trans advocate who is a star could make a big difference. That said, you don't have to be transgender to do something like this.
posted by Chrysopoeia at 8:04 PM on December 1, 2020 [11 favorites]
"To all the trans people who deal with harassment, self-loathing, abuse, and the threat of violence every day; I love you and I will do everything I can to change this world for the better"
Well now I'm crying. Because having a Trans advocate who is a star could make a big difference. That said, you don't have to be transgender to do something like this.
posted by Chrysopoeia at 8:04 PM on December 1, 2020 [11 favorites]
Niko Stratis @nikostratis
we will reveal a new trans celebrity every day until our demands are met.
12:34 PM · Dec 1, 2020·Twitter Web App
posted by Ahmad Khani at 8:22 PM on December 1, 2020 [24 favorites]
we will reveal a new trans celebrity every day until our demands are met.
12:34 PM · Dec 1, 2020·Twitter Web App
posted by Ahmad Khani at 8:22 PM on December 1, 2020 [24 favorites]
Sara Ghaleb, @SaraGhaleb: Elliot Page and Michael Cera should do another rom com.
I didn’t know how badly I needed said rom com in my life until I saw that tweet
posted by ActionPopulated at 9:58 PM on December 1, 2020 [13 favorites]
I didn’t know how badly I needed said rom com in my life until I saw that tweet
posted by ActionPopulated at 9:58 PM on December 1, 2020 [13 favorites]
Wow, didn't see that coming. Always a fan of his acting. Go to it, and good luck.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 11:24 PM on December 1, 2020
posted by GallonOfAlan at 11:24 PM on December 1, 2020
And maybe now we can finally stop propping up Caitlyn Jenner as the most famous person ever to publicly transition.
Lana and Lilly Wachowski? We still remember The Matrix right?
posted by DarlingBri at 2:33 AM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
Lana and Lilly Wachowski? We still remember The Matrix right?
posted by DarlingBri at 2:33 AM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
I think Caitlyn announcing her transition was way more of a media event, and it all hit the mainstream public consciousness much more prominently.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:37 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by rmd1023 at 4:37 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Every time someone steps up and says who they are, the world becomes a better, more interesting place. Capt Holt said it already and I couldn't agree more.
Elliot is a beautiful name. So happy for him.
posted by Nieshka at 5:02 AM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
Elliot is a beautiful name. So happy for him.
posted by Nieshka at 5:02 AM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
I spent a fair amount of time yesterday texting people about Elliot's transition announcement, it was lovely to get a piece of totally good and wholesome news and seeing all the support he's getting from Netflix and his Umbrella Academy costars is especially wonderful - I do wonder what they're going to do with Vanya, but it would be easy enough to hit the character with some kind of gender-changing ray if that's what they decide to do.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:32 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by bile and syntax at 6:32 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
OK so instead of asking here I went and tried to learn a bit about "deadname" concept, for any other olds or curious people wanting to get up to speed on the this: 1) basic definition at genderwiki 2) from healthline, why it is bad and what to do to help 3) Specific to Elliot page and why you should not use his deadname, from shitty Newsweek.
My initial reaction was it seemed strange to kind of disappear the old name from prior art and historical context, but OK, whatever, makes sense and not my prob.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:37 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
My initial reaction was it seemed strange to kind of disappear the old name from prior art and historical context, but OK, whatever, makes sense and not my prob.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:37 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Lana and Lilly Wachowski? We still remember The Matrix right?
The Wachowskis don't have nearly the name and/or face recognition that an on-camera celebrity has. Hell, a lot of people don't know what a director is much less who directed the movies they love.
posted by brundlefly at 7:17 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
The Wachowskis don't have nearly the name and/or face recognition that an on-camera celebrity has. Hell, a lot of people don't know what a director is much less who directed the movies they love.
posted by brundlefly at 7:17 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
One of my favourite actors. More power to you Elliot.
posted by Webbster at 7:25 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Webbster at 7:25 AM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
And maybe now we can finally stop propping up Caitlyn Jenner as the most famous person ever to publicly transition.
Lana and Lilly Wachowski? We still remember The Matrix right?
Somewhere, Chaz Bono is gently sobbing into his cereal.
posted by hanov3r at 7:38 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
Lana and Lilly Wachowski? We still remember The Matrix right?
Somewhere, Chaz Bono is gently sobbing into his cereal.
posted by hanov3r at 7:38 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
Dude's been in a lot of great stuff. Whip It!
I don't have much to add to the news itself (congrats!) but mainly came here to praise this film and Page's central performance in it. It's an utterly charming film and it's only on reflection that I've realised how effortlessly he carries the film.
In fact, I've not seen anything that hasn't been elevated by his presence and there's actually a good amount of versatility across genres. Inception, Juno, Umbrella Academy and one of the more tense cinema-going experiences of my life in Hard Candy (lots of uncomfortable men in the audience on that one...)
I know this is all somewhat secondary to the news itself but if you've not had a chance to check out his work, there's never been a better time.
posted by slimepuppy at 7:45 AM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
I don't have much to add to the news itself (congrats!) but mainly came here to praise this film and Page's central performance in it. It's an utterly charming film and it's only on reflection that I've realised how effortlessly he carries the film.
In fact, I've not seen anything that hasn't been elevated by his presence and there's actually a good amount of versatility across genres. Inception, Juno, Umbrella Academy and one of the more tense cinema-going experiences of my life in Hard Candy (lots of uncomfortable men in the audience on that one...)
I know this is all somewhat secondary to the news itself but if you've not had a chance to check out his work, there's never been a better time.
posted by slimepuppy at 7:45 AM on December 2, 2020 [4 favorites]
My initial reaction was it seemed strange to kind of disappear the old name from prior art and historical context, but OK, whatever, makes sense and not my prob.
So the thing is his old name will not be disappeared from prior art. Movies and shows Elliot made under his old name will not be re-released with his new name in the credits, that will always be there. People are saying that you shouldn't use his old name going forward.
But more, I like to think of it as, say one of your coworkers gets married and changes their last name. A year later would you share your coworker's old last name with a new person who has joined your work group? "Oh, their last name is Smith now, but did you know it used to be Johnson?" I imagine you would get weird looks... "So what? Who cares what their last name used to be? It's Smith now." If someone went digging to find that coworker's old last name, you would also probably think that person strange and invasive. Why the hell do you need to know a coworker's old last name?
A trans person's name change should be the same level of not interesting and not important outside of the announcement. If you know it, it's boring information you don't need to share with anyone. If you don't, you shouldn't go dig for it. If you do find it (because you happened to run across something they did under the old name), it's boring information you can keep to yourself. If someone shares it with you as if its gossip, let them know that's none of your business and its weird to collect trivia on other people.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 10:05 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
So the thing is his old name will not be disappeared from prior art. Movies and shows Elliot made under his old name will not be re-released with his new name in the credits, that will always be there. People are saying that you shouldn't use his old name going forward.
But more, I like to think of it as, say one of your coworkers gets married and changes their last name. A year later would you share your coworker's old last name with a new person who has joined your work group? "Oh, their last name is Smith now, but did you know it used to be Johnson?" I imagine you would get weird looks... "So what? Who cares what their last name used to be? It's Smith now." If someone went digging to find that coworker's old last name, you would also probably think that person strange and invasive. Why the hell do you need to know a coworker's old last name?
A trans person's name change should be the same level of not interesting and not important outside of the announcement. If you know it, it's boring information you don't need to share with anyone. If you don't, you shouldn't go dig for it. If you do find it (because you happened to run across something they did under the old name), it's boring information you can keep to yourself. If someone shares it with you as if its gossip, let them know that's none of your business and its weird to collect trivia on other people.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 10:05 AM on December 2, 2020 [16 favorites]
But more, I like to think of it as, say one of your coworkers gets married and changes their last name. A year later would you share your coworker's old last name with a new person who has joined your work group?
the thing I struggle with is, if you look up a coworker in their high school yearbook, or in a newspaper for something notable they did before they were married, they'll be listed by their previous name, possibly with a note of their current name. I don't agree with continuing to deadname a trans person, but it seems overly woke to revise the history of the works that person created or was mentioned in when they were presenting as their former name.
NB: I understand we don't do this and why, and I don't stubbornly oppose it— just saying it's logically inconsistent and kind of confusing honestly
posted by a halcyon day at 10:31 AM on December 2, 2020
the thing I struggle with is, if you look up a coworker in their high school yearbook, or in a newspaper for something notable they did before they were married, they'll be listed by their previous name, possibly with a note of their current name. I don't agree with continuing to deadname a trans person, but it seems overly woke to revise the history of the works that person created or was mentioned in when they were presenting as their former name.
NB: I understand we don't do this and why, and I don't stubbornly oppose it— just saying it's logically inconsistent and kind of confusing honestly
posted by a halcyon day at 10:31 AM on December 2, 2020
So the thing is his old name will not be disappeared from prior art. Movies and shows Elliot made under his old name will not be re-released with his new name in the credits, that will always be there.
"Elliot Page will continue to star in ‘Umbrella Academy,’ Netflix changes credits on his films"
posted by zebra at 10:39 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
"Elliot Page will continue to star in ‘Umbrella Academy,’ Netflix changes credits on his films"
posted by zebra at 10:39 AM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
I have never looked up a coworker in their high school yearbook and don't even know what city most of them went to high school in. It doesn't feel woke to me, but am I really the only person who would be disturbed to find out someone was collecting all of their coworkers high school yearbook pictures?
Also, jesus, changing the **metadata** for an on-going series is different from yanking existing copies of "Juno" and editing the intro credits (which is what I meant by "re-released with his new name"). At best you're playing devil's advocate so I'm done trying to explain.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 10:49 AM on December 2, 2020 [14 favorites]
Also, jesus, changing the **metadata** for an on-going series is different from yanking existing copies of "Juno" and editing the intro credits (which is what I meant by "re-released with his new name"). At best you're playing devil's advocate so I'm done trying to explain.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 10:49 AM on December 2, 2020 [14 favorites]
the thing I struggle with is, if you look up a coworker in their high school yearbook, or in a newspaper for something notable they did before they were married, they'll be listed by their previous name, possibly with a note of their current name. I don't agree with continuing to deadname a trans person, but it seems overly woke to revise the history of the works that person created or was mentioned in when they were presenting as their former name.
physical media, once released, is often difficult to edit; hence books get revisions and editions, movies and albums get remasters, recuts, and rereleases. a yearbook or a newspaper, as you mention, as commonly conceived, are examples of this and thus can't really be considered "living" documents that are amenable to patches, updates, and revisions.
conversely, most of what's changed quickly and easily are mediums that arose after widespread adoption of the internet: information databases with history tracking, such as wikipedia and imdb, for example, or online articles stored in content management systems. even digital video can easily be edited, given that the raw masters are stored as digital entities and software is powerful enough to make things mutable. it is trivial, even, to update database records on metafilter, with its vaunted "archive", to tag older posts with the correct new identifier.
few complained about the digital erasure and re-uploading of jeans guy from the latest mandalorian episode; people expressed surprise but did not consider it too out of bounds when cats was revised to remove shadows that looked like buttholes and the unanimated hands of dame judy dench.
so where is the "logical inconsistency" and "confusion" arising from, other than an unwillingness to consider change and mutability as normal in the digital era? why try to denigrate kindness, politeness, and acceptance as "overly woke"?
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:29 AM on December 2, 2020 [18 favorites]
physical media, once released, is often difficult to edit; hence books get revisions and editions, movies and albums get remasters, recuts, and rereleases. a yearbook or a newspaper, as you mention, as commonly conceived, are examples of this and thus can't really be considered "living" documents that are amenable to patches, updates, and revisions.
conversely, most of what's changed quickly and easily are mediums that arose after widespread adoption of the internet: information databases with history tracking, such as wikipedia and imdb, for example, or online articles stored in content management systems. even digital video can easily be edited, given that the raw masters are stored as digital entities and software is powerful enough to make things mutable. it is trivial, even, to update database records on metafilter, with its vaunted "archive", to tag older posts with the correct new identifier.
few complained about the digital erasure and re-uploading of jeans guy from the latest mandalorian episode; people expressed surprise but did not consider it too out of bounds when cats was revised to remove shadows that looked like buttholes and the unanimated hands of dame judy dench.
so where is the "logical inconsistency" and "confusion" arising from, other than an unwillingness to consider change and mutability as normal in the digital era? why try to denigrate kindness, politeness, and acceptance as "overly woke"?
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:29 AM on December 2, 2020 [18 favorites]
they'll be listed by their previous name, possibly with a note of their current name. I don't agree with continuing to deadname a trans person, but it seems overly woke to revise the history of the works that person created or was mentioned in when they were presenting as their former name.
also maybe consider that people don't necessarily have one name throughout their lives, what with concepts like maiden names, courtesy names, and other name changes.
but even with that in mind, why don't we turn to the example of emperor shōwa, as he is properly referred to, or his predecessors emperor taisho and meiji? these are not names they were known as when alive, as these names are posthumously granted. we'll see the same for emperor akihito, when he dies, with his name becoming heisei, and naruhito, when he dies. nobody's complaining about how "woke" it will be to edit history books to their proper names, at some future date.
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:38 AM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
also maybe consider that people don't necessarily have one name throughout their lives, what with concepts like maiden names, courtesy names, and other name changes.
but even with that in mind, why don't we turn to the example of emperor shōwa, as he is properly referred to, or his predecessors emperor taisho and meiji? these are not names they were known as when alive, as these names are posthumously granted. we'll see the same for emperor akihito, when he dies, with his name becoming heisei, and naruhito, when he dies. nobody's complaining about how "woke" it will be to edit history books to their proper names, at some future date.
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:38 AM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else
Are we still doing "eponysterical"?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:45 AM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
Are we still doing "eponysterical"?
posted by Faint of Butt at 11:45 AM on December 2, 2020 [3 favorites]
perhaps, if you are not trans, you should refrain from deeming something trans people ask for, repeatedly, insistently, consistently, as "overly woke".
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:52 AM on December 2, 2020 [52 favorites]
posted by i used to be someone else at 11:52 AM on December 2, 2020 [52 favorites]
Mod note: One comment removed. It is never acceptable to deadname a trans person.
posted by loup (staff) at 12:09 PM on December 2, 2020 [25 favorites]
posted by loup (staff) at 12:09 PM on December 2, 2020 [25 favorites]
At best you're playing devil's advocate so I'm done trying to explain.
I am a trans person who simply pointed out that something you said wouldn’t happen, is happening. I’m happy for you to stop explaining your transphobia to me, though. This post is about celebrating a trans person, and you are making it about yourself and how you find it hard to show other people basic human decency and respect.
And y’all wonder why most of the trans folks have left the site.
posted by zebra at 12:16 PM on December 2, 2020 [9 favorites]
I am a trans person who simply pointed out that something you said wouldn’t happen, is happening. I’m happy for you to stop explaining your transphobia to me, though. This post is about celebrating a trans person, and you are making it about yourself and how you find it hard to show other people basic human decency and respect.
And y’all wonder why most of the trans folks have left the site.
posted by zebra at 12:16 PM on December 2, 2020 [9 favorites]
if you look up a coworker in their high school yearbook, or in a newspaper for something notable they did before they were married, they'll be listed by their previous name
This is a ridiculous example that is so vanishingly unlikely as to strain credibility. And even if we assumed you needed to look at a coworker's high school year book and couldn't find them, so what? Seriously?
posted by JenMarie at 12:22 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
This is a ridiculous example that is so vanishingly unlikely as to strain credibility. And even if we assumed you needed to look at a coworker's high school year book and couldn't find them, so what? Seriously?
posted by JenMarie at 12:22 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
it would be minimal effort, and less confusing, to credit Juno as Elliot Page (né [deadname]) or something similar that acknowledges a current chosen presentation and identity differs from that when the film was made,
Prioritizing the effort to others in making the change or the confusion of onlookers inherently deprioritizes respecting the choices, needs, identity and personhood of the individual. I think we should consider the respect for the individual more important than the other concerns about onlookers/convenience.
As a cisgender person, what I have listened to and heard helped me understand that living an authentic identity, having authentic chosen pronouns and names used (rather than deadnames) has a deep, important, core, meaningful effect. As a married woman who changed her name, I don't think that maiden/married names are a fabulous zone of analogy because my choice to change my name doesn't involve a change in identity, use of my maiden name wouldn't reflect back to a period of time where I felt I was not able to be authentically me.
Any confusion others might have would be of short duration and have no harmful effects. No one is entitled to 'freedom from momentary confusion about others' identity'. Google exists, news stories have been published, someone who needs or wants the information for example if the are writing a biography about Elliott, can obtain it. There is no fundamental need to link that deadname. Just as I said above yesterday, headlines were able to quickly and succinctly tell me who it is we are talking about by referencing his work, no need to deadname.
It might be minimal "effort" to make the reference you mentioned, but "effort" and "confusion" aren't what's important here. Trans people who have experienced deadnaming have told those of us who don't have that experience, that it is deeply hurtful. Always ask yourself - is it true? is it necessary? is it kind? Maybe here the credit you are suggesting is true, but it's unnecessary and unkind.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 12:23 PM on December 2, 2020 [13 favorites]
Prioritizing the effort to others in making the change or the confusion of onlookers inherently deprioritizes respecting the choices, needs, identity and personhood of the individual. I think we should consider the respect for the individual more important than the other concerns about onlookers/convenience.
As a cisgender person, what I have listened to and heard helped me understand that living an authentic identity, having authentic chosen pronouns and names used (rather than deadnames) has a deep, important, core, meaningful effect. As a married woman who changed her name, I don't think that maiden/married names are a fabulous zone of analogy because my choice to change my name doesn't involve a change in identity, use of my maiden name wouldn't reflect back to a period of time where I felt I was not able to be authentically me.
Any confusion others might have would be of short duration and have no harmful effects. No one is entitled to 'freedom from momentary confusion about others' identity'. Google exists, news stories have been published, someone who needs or wants the information for example if the are writing a biography about Elliott, can obtain it. There is no fundamental need to link that deadname. Just as I said above yesterday, headlines were able to quickly and succinctly tell me who it is we are talking about by referencing his work, no need to deadname.
It might be minimal "effort" to make the reference you mentioned, but "effort" and "confusion" aren't what's important here. Trans people who have experienced deadnaming have told those of us who don't have that experience, that it is deeply hurtful. Always ask yourself - is it true? is it necessary? is it kind? Maybe here the credit you are suggesting is true, but it's unnecessary and unkind.
posted by MustangMamaVE at 12:23 PM on December 2, 2020 [13 favorites]
it's logically inconsistent and kind of confusing honestly
Amazing how people who are resisting treating trans people with basic respect always resort to saying they don't understand. Guess what: maybe if something has been explained to you multiple times and you still don't understand it, the problem is with your capacity for understanding. And that's not even necessarily an insult. You don't actually have to understand something to respect it. I don't understand how much of modern medicine works but I respect that if I take an advil, my sore joints feel better. Similarly, you don't have to understand trans people to respect that using our real names and pronouns makes things better for everyone.
posted by lunasol at 12:28 PM on December 2, 2020 [33 favorites]
Amazing how people who are resisting treating trans people with basic respect always resort to saying they don't understand. Guess what: maybe if something has been explained to you multiple times and you still don't understand it, the problem is with your capacity for understanding. And that's not even necessarily an insult. You don't actually have to understand something to respect it. I don't understand how much of modern medicine works but I respect that if I take an advil, my sore joints feel better. Similarly, you don't have to understand trans people to respect that using our real names and pronouns makes things better for everyone.
posted by lunasol at 12:28 PM on December 2, 2020 [33 favorites]
I am so, so happy for him.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 1:18 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Kitchen Witch at 1:18 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
logically inconsistent and kind of confusing honestly
I mean, welcome to being human, I guess.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:46 PM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
I mean, welcome to being human, I guess.
posted by soundguy99 at 1:46 PM on December 2, 2020 [10 favorites]
we did it boys!!!
I have to admit this seemed a little weird? My full respect and support for Page, but this sort of scans like Team Dudes got Page but we had to give up a first-round pick in the 2021 Gender Draft.
posted by mhoye at 1:49 PM on December 2, 2020
I have to admit this seemed a little weird? My full respect and support for Page, but this sort of scans like Team Dudes got Page but we had to give up a first-round pick in the 2021 Gender Draft.
posted by mhoye at 1:49 PM on December 2, 2020
I think we should interpret people's expressions of enthusiasm and support with as much charity as possible. The responses to Elliot's announcement in the queer Slack that I'm in were, shall we say, expressed more intemperately and colorfully than the ones in the mixed Slack I'm in, but they were all coming from a place of love and good will.
posted by Lexica at 1:55 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 1:55 PM on December 2, 2020 [6 favorites]
Congratulations Elliot!
posted by Omnomnom at 2:02 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Omnomnom at 2:02 PM on December 2, 2020 [1 favorite]
if additional context is needed re: the "we did it boys!!!" tweet, that's daniel lavery, noted trans man, author, and possessor of remarkable wit and depth. he's known for his work on the toast with nicole chung and nicole cliffe, the slate column and podcast "dear prudence", the newsletter shatner chatner, and the books the merry spinster, something that may shock and discredit you. he also wrote this review of a binder. he's married to noted trans academic and philosopher grace lavery.
i find it hard to fault daniel's excitement, given that the news came on the same day that a devastating anti-trans ruling came out in the uk, as well as the sheer impact having another visible, highly recognizable trans masculine person to represent the community would have.
posted by i used to be someone else at 2:04 PM on December 2, 2020 [25 favorites]
i find it hard to fault daniel's excitement, given that the news came on the same day that a devastating anti-trans ruling came out in the uk, as well as the sheer impact having another visible, highly recognizable trans masculine person to represent the community would have.
posted by i used to be someone else at 2:04 PM on December 2, 2020 [25 favorites]
I think we should interpret people's expressions of enthusiasm and support with as much charity as possible.
That’s a fair point, and on reflection policing expressions of support like that is really the wrong thing. And thank you, I used to be someone else - I wasn’t aware of that larger context - and I apologize.
posted by mhoye at 2:18 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
That’s a fair point, and on reflection policing expressions of support like that is really the wrong thing. And thank you, I used to be someone else - I wasn’t aware of that larger context - and I apologize.
posted by mhoye at 2:18 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
he also wrote this review of a binder.
That was a delightful read, really just an utter journey. I cannot describe how reading it made me feel. Vicariously confident?
posted by MustangMamaVE at 2:35 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
That was a delightful read, really just an utter journey. I cannot describe how reading it made me feel. Vicariously confident?
posted by MustangMamaVE at 2:35 PM on December 2, 2020 [2 favorites]
Popping back in cuz I guess I didn't mention in this thread that I'm also a trans guy that transitioned after 30 and whose birthname is really easy to find if you know me. I guess I also do have a complicated relationship to that and how commenters here have reacted to Elliot's announcement because it does feel so personal.
Hugs to all the trans people in the thread, whether reading or lurking. You're all doing great.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 3:34 PM on December 2, 2020 [14 favorites]
Hugs to all the trans people in the thread, whether reading or lurking. You're all doing great.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 3:34 PM on December 2, 2020 [14 favorites]
How much do I love that the Prime Minister tweeted his congrats? A LOT
posted by aclevername at 3:36 PM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by aclevername at 3:36 PM on December 2, 2020 [8 favorites]
we did it boys!!!
I have to admit this seemed a little weird? My full respect and support for Page, but this sort of scans like Team Dudes got Page but we had to give up a first-round pick in the 2021 Gender Draft.
The really key part to this is that Danny Lavery's twitter is....markedly not in the same register as Dear Prudence or even The Toast. If you follow him and/or Grace Lavery, you will find out a lot more about them than you might have thought you wanted to know. I think it's kind of cute, actually, and it's interesting to see one person working in such different registers.
So anyway, I took the tweet as meaning "Because in the mainstream-transphobic mind trans people are constantly considered to be "recruiting" people who would otherwise not transition (as opposed to supporting people in figuring out whether they want to transition) we find it kind of funny to pretend that Elliot Page transitioned after an organized campaign by trans men seeking to recruit him because he's just so cool".
Like, it's funny, IMO, to imagine a group of trans guys meeting in secret, scheming to make transition sound so attractive that the cissest of cis women would find it irresistible - maybe making little recruitment brochures showing trans guys doing slightly stereotypical trans guy things like lifting weights a lot, or a sort of a funny fifties-style advertisement showing a bunch of trans guys around a campfire, etc etc. And then when you finally succeed, you all fist-bump because your hard work paid off!!
I feel like it's also a little bit of a "there are fun things about being a trans guy that are sources of amusement and camaraderie rather than an unending struggle and tragedy".
And also a sort of retro-ironic register where we refer to fellow trans adults as "boys" like we're all working in advertising in 1950 and just sold a campaign.
It's a bit of an in-joke, is what I'm saying.
posted by Frowner at 7:47 AM on December 3, 2020 [25 favorites]
I have to admit this seemed a little weird? My full respect and support for Page, but this sort of scans like Team Dudes got Page but we had to give up a first-round pick in the 2021 Gender Draft.
The really key part to this is that Danny Lavery's twitter is....markedly not in the same register as Dear Prudence or even The Toast. If you follow him and/or Grace Lavery, you will find out a lot more about them than you might have thought you wanted to know. I think it's kind of cute, actually, and it's interesting to see one person working in such different registers.
So anyway, I took the tweet as meaning "Because in the mainstream-transphobic mind trans people are constantly considered to be "recruiting" people who would otherwise not transition (as opposed to supporting people in figuring out whether they want to transition) we find it kind of funny to pretend that Elliot Page transitioned after an organized campaign by trans men seeking to recruit him because he's just so cool".
Like, it's funny, IMO, to imagine a group of trans guys meeting in secret, scheming to make transition sound so attractive that the cissest of cis women would find it irresistible - maybe making little recruitment brochures showing trans guys doing slightly stereotypical trans guy things like lifting weights a lot, or a sort of a funny fifties-style advertisement showing a bunch of trans guys around a campfire, etc etc. And then when you finally succeed, you all fist-bump because your hard work paid off!!
I feel like it's also a little bit of a "there are fun things about being a trans guy that are sources of amusement and camaraderie rather than an unending struggle and tragedy".
And also a sort of retro-ironic register where we refer to fellow trans adults as "boys" like we're all working in advertising in 1950 and just sold a campaign.
It's a bit of an in-joke, is what I'm saying.
posted by Frowner at 7:47 AM on December 3, 2020 [25 favorites]
I am thrilled for Elliot and wish him all the best.
I too am impressed with the mainstream media outlets that have managed to cover the news without deadnaming Elliot. Although I am grateful for descriptors such as "star of Juno and the Umbrella Academy," because I honestly scrolled past the news several times on Twitter thinking "who the heck is Elliot Page?" :)
On a related note, I had no idea that Daniel Lavery is the author I previously knew from his association with the Toast until I Googled just now.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:01 AM on December 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
I too am impressed with the mainstream media outlets that have managed to cover the news without deadnaming Elliot. Although I am grateful for descriptors such as "star of Juno and the Umbrella Academy," because I honestly scrolled past the news several times on Twitter thinking "who the heck is Elliot Page?" :)
On a related note, I had no idea that Daniel Lavery is the author I previously knew from his association with the Toast until I Googled just now.
posted by Ben Trismegistus at 9:01 AM on December 3, 2020 [3 favorites]
Danny has also had the luck/curse/notable achievement to make a major and personally significant name changes during *both* of his book releases, such that the book cover is wong, in a potentially very painful way, right out of the gate. He lost track of some audience members in the process of these changes, and I suspect it gives to conniptions to whoever is in charge of publicity for the books, but oh well to that.
He has handled this with grace (and also with his wife, Grace) and total commitment to self-determination that I find admirable. His approach to dealing with this has been thoroughly his own and I have the sense that the amount I know about the decisions and how he feels about previous names is exactly as much as he wants outsiders to.
Anyone trying to work out the logic of this, I encourage you to read some of what he's written about his transition and name choices. It's not about logic, and it is also extremely clearly articulated in that writing how he feels for his own personal case.
It's not identical to the social rules we follow for women or anyone else changing names at marriage. That's fine. We are working out some social conventions that keep people safe and included (just like, you don't have to try and find out if an individual person specifically doesn't want to hear their deadname.) And those conventions are a first approximation that will be departed from over and over again when you know an individual preferred a different address or whatever.
(I'll put in a plug for the classic "Falsehoods programmers believe about names" article. Names are complicated and they matter. So be it!)
posted by heyforfour at 9:30 AM on December 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
He has handled this with grace (and also with his wife, Grace) and total commitment to self-determination that I find admirable. His approach to dealing with this has been thoroughly his own and I have the sense that the amount I know about the decisions and how he feels about previous names is exactly as much as he wants outsiders to.
Anyone trying to work out the logic of this, I encourage you to read some of what he's written about his transition and name choices. It's not about logic, and it is also extremely clearly articulated in that writing how he feels for his own personal case.
It's not identical to the social rules we follow for women or anyone else changing names at marriage. That's fine. We are working out some social conventions that keep people safe and included (just like, you don't have to try and find out if an individual person specifically doesn't want to hear their deadname.) And those conventions are a first approximation that will be departed from over and over again when you know an individual preferred a different address or whatever.
(I'll put in a plug for the classic "Falsehoods programmers believe about names" article. Names are complicated and they matter. So be it!)
posted by heyforfour at 9:30 AM on December 3, 2020 [8 favorites]
I have never looked up a coworker in their high school yearbook and don't even know what city most of them went to high school in. It doesn't feel woke to me, but am I really the only person who would be disturbed to find out someone was collecting all of their coworkers high school yearbook pictures?
No, that would bother me, too!
This woman I used to work with was extremely nosey and would always say, "but it's public information!" in defense of her google stalking everyone in the office (and all of the clients).
posted by marimeko at 4:57 PM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
No, that would bother me, too!
This woman I used to work with was extremely nosey and would always say, "but it's public information!" in defense of her google stalking everyone in the office (and all of the clients).
posted by marimeko at 4:57 PM on December 3, 2020 [2 favorites]
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posted by saladin at 10:41 AM on December 1, 2020 [10 favorites]