NRA Declares Bankruptcy (Of Several Sorts)
January 15, 2021 2:22 PM Subscribe
The National Rifle Association has filed for Chapter 11 in bankruptcy court. Beyond the financial woes the organization has faced due to corrupt dealings by NRA leadership, the move is also an attempt by the organization to escape the lawsuit in New York, as the organization is clearly stating their intention to restructure as a Texas nonprofit.
This had better not work.
posted by aramaic at 2:30 PM on January 15, 2021 [18 favorites]
posted by aramaic at 2:30 PM on January 15, 2021 [18 favorites]
The best part is - guess who is next on Tish James' hit list?.....
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:32 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:32 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Unsurprisingly, AG James has a response:
The NRA's claimed financial status has finally met its moral status: bankrupt.posted by NoxAeternum at 2:39 PM on January 15, 2021 [81 favorites]
While we review its bankruptcy filing, we will not allow the NRA to use this or any other tactic to evade accountability and my office’s oversight.
I love buying shooty/ammo/stuff and being asked if I get an NRA discount and saying "nope." Do you want to sign up for the NRA for the discount? "Nope." Blank stare from clerk as they try to determine if you are an enemy. You should join..."nope." I wonder if the hardcore membership is going to fragment along hunting/tactical cosplay lines.
posted by th3ph17 at 2:40 PM on January 15, 2021 [30 favorites]
posted by th3ph17 at 2:40 PM on January 15, 2021 [30 favorites]
On filing to move to Texas:
"This is like when odd, off-putting, socially awkward middle aged white guys get really enthusiastic about moving to Thailand for some reason" -- popehat
posted by valkane at 2:45 PM on January 15, 2021 [89 favorites]
"This is like when odd, off-putting, socially awkward middle aged white guys get really enthusiastic about moving to Thailand for some reason" -- popehat
posted by valkane at 2:45 PM on January 15, 2021 [89 favorites]
I guess it's time to take the NRA out behind the barn with a shotgun and send it on over the Rainbow Bridge.
posted by CynicalKnight at 3:08 PM on January 15, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by CynicalKnight at 3:08 PM on January 15, 2021 [9 favorites]
I’m enjoying watching these grifts fall apart, I have to admit.
posted by mhoye at 3:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 3:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [11 favorites]
What happens when a business (can we call it a business?) restructures as a non-profit? Are there examples of similar instances that I could learn about? I'm kind of fascinated that this is their tactic and I want to know what chance it has at being successful in this attempt or of just falling apart.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 3:13 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 3:13 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Instead of standing tall and facing the threat head on, with pride, confidence, bravery and valor, they're slinking off to another state via lawyer deals and procedural maneuvering?
I can't decide if I think that's on-brand or not.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:16 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I can't decide if I think that's on-brand or not.
posted by Western Infidels at 3:16 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Restructures as a non profit
In this case it’s a moot question because the NRA is already structured as a nonprofit charity in New York, but is just looking to change the state of incorporation to Texas, because they’re currently in violation of New York charity laws.
Their incorporation papers in New York ban relocation without state approval though so they’re likely stuck in NY until the case is concluded.
posted by jmauro at 3:18 PM on January 15, 2021 [41 favorites]
In this case it’s a moot question because the NRA is already structured as a nonprofit charity in New York, but is just looking to change the state of incorporation to Texas, because they’re currently in violation of New York charity laws.
Their incorporation papers in New York ban relocation without state approval though so they’re likely stuck in NY until the case is concluded.
posted by jmauro at 3:18 PM on January 15, 2021 [41 favorites]
What happens when a business (can we call it a business?) restructures as a non-profit?
The NRA is already a non-profit, chartered in New York. They're looking to get a federal court to rule that they can reincorporate in Texas without getting Tish James to sign off (since she has no desire to do so.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:24 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
The NRA is already a non-profit, chartered in New York. They're looking to get a federal court to rule that they can reincorporate in Texas without getting Tish James to sign off (since she has no desire to do so.)
posted by NoxAeternum at 3:24 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I won’t shed many tears about this but…
Matt Cohen in Mother Jones: “A More Extreme Gun Rights Movement Is Emerging in the NRA’s Wake” (December 2, 2020)
Matt Cohen in Mother Jones: “A More Extreme Gun Rights Movement Is Emerging in the NRA’s Wake” (December 2, 2020)
Since 2016, the NRA has seen a steady decline in its ranks. Meanwhile, there’s been a boon in membership for more extreme groups like the [Virginia Citizen’s Defense League] and the Second Amendment Foundation, which recently filed a number of lawsuits challenging state gun control laws, and the National Association for Gun Rights, which paints itself as a more conservative alternative to the NRA.posted by Going To Maine at 3:53 PM on January 15, 2021 [9 favorites]
I hope this means an end to the stream of garbage mail I still get from them when I had to move all my dad's mail to my address when he was in hospice care. It's been years of me continuing to send everything back, no matter how small, as "Return to Sender" because even though I don't know if that still costs the sender something (it used to, back in the day, but it's been decades since I did any mailing-list management), I didn't want to encourage them to keep my address on their lists. They sent the most vile shit here.
My dad had a lifetime membership, and I used to read his National Rifleman when I was younger, when it was mostly about killing harmless creatures. Over the years, I'd noticed it getting increasingly militant, and the little section about people using guns to "defend themselves" kept getting bigger and bigger, while my dad kept getting more and more worried the Democrats would take his guns away (his two hunting rifles). The last year of his life, though, he said in this sad, weary voice, sitting on the edge of his bed in the nursing center at his retirement home, "Honey, I might have to vote for Democrats for the first time." He was so disgusted by what the Republicans had turned into, and had long since given up on caring about the NRA.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 3:55 PM on January 15, 2021 [40 favorites]
My dad had a lifetime membership, and I used to read his National Rifleman when I was younger, when it was mostly about killing harmless creatures. Over the years, I'd noticed it getting increasingly militant, and the little section about people using guns to "defend themselves" kept getting bigger and bigger, while my dad kept getting more and more worried the Democrats would take his guns away (his two hunting rifles). The last year of his life, though, he said in this sad, weary voice, sitting on the edge of his bed in the nursing center at his retirement home, "Honey, I might have to vote for Democrats for the first time." He was so disgusted by what the Republicans had turned into, and had long since given up on caring about the NRA.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 3:55 PM on January 15, 2021 [40 favorites]
These fuckers. Halfway through Covid I had the sudden thought that hey, maybe mass shootings have fallen off! Googled and . . . nope. I take some small pleasure in their legal woes but would take a lot more if I thought it would make any difference whatsoever to a country full of wild-eyed conspiracy theorists already armed to the teeth.
posted by HotToddy at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
Whatever happened to, "From my cold, dead hands!"?
Gotta keep that grift gravy train running.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Gotta keep that grift gravy train running.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 4:05 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
"The NRA said it would restructure as a Texas nonprofit to exit what it said was a “a corrupt political and regulatory environment in New York” state, where it is currently registered."
I find it a little strange that they didn't do this ages ago.
I don't know the ins and outs of corporate charters, but why wouldn't you have moved the organization wholesale to a more favourable regulatory environment?
posted by madajb at 4:06 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
I find it a little strange that they didn't do this ages ago.
I don't know the ins and outs of corporate charters, but why wouldn't you have moved the organization wholesale to a more favourable regulatory environment?
posted by madajb at 4:06 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
/DonaldGloverGOOD.gif
posted by Ghidorah at 4:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Ghidorah at 4:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
why wouldn't you have moved the organization wholesale to a more favourable regulatory environment?
Multiple potential reasons, possibly including "the managers live in New York"; it's easier to manage a company that's nearby. Whatever tax etc. benefits are available in NY, they know and are used to; whatever's available in Texas is new to them. Also, when the org was founded, NY may have been better for several reasons. (Likely including, "it's where the founders are.")
NY may well be a better legal environment for a nonprofit that's not based on grift and lies. It may be a better environment for any nonprofit, except for one that's so entrenched in supporting violence that it's drawing attention that no nonprofit wants to deal with. (I know very little about the differences in nonprofit laws between states. I don't know what NY's advantages over TX are; I'm just positing that it may have some.)
And if you move from NY to TX, you may lose the support of NY donors who were happy to support "a local org" but won't support one that's out of state. You'd presumably be able to gain TX donors, but you have to find them first.
Moving's a hassle. You don't do it unless you need to. It's possible they should've noticed that need a few years ago, but... they may also have been assuming they were facing a T-for-life presidency and didn't need to consider their legal environment at all.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:18 PM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
Multiple potential reasons, possibly including "the managers live in New York"; it's easier to manage a company that's nearby. Whatever tax etc. benefits are available in NY, they know and are used to; whatever's available in Texas is new to them. Also, when the org was founded, NY may have been better for several reasons. (Likely including, "it's where the founders are.")
NY may well be a better legal environment for a nonprofit that's not based on grift and lies. It may be a better environment for any nonprofit, except for one that's so entrenched in supporting violence that it's drawing attention that no nonprofit wants to deal with. (I know very little about the differences in nonprofit laws between states. I don't know what NY's advantages over TX are; I'm just positing that it may have some.)
And if you move from NY to TX, you may lose the support of NY donors who were happy to support "a local org" but won't support one that's out of state. You'd presumably be able to gain TX donors, but you have to find them first.
Moving's a hassle. You don't do it unless you need to. It's possible they should've noticed that need a few years ago, but... they may also have been assuming they were facing a T-for-life presidency and didn't need to consider their legal environment at all.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 4:18 PM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
I don't know the ins and outs of corporate charters, but why wouldn't you have moved the organization wholesale to a more favourable regulatory environment?
Also, in addition to what ErisLordFreedom said, for certain nonprofits (and I'm not sure whether the NRA is one of those nonprofits), they need approval from the AG before they're permitted to transfer their assets and dissolve. So it's not as simple as just deciding you want to move and then moving.
posted by holborne at 4:35 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Also, in addition to what ErisLordFreedom said, for certain nonprofits (and I'm not sure whether the NRA is one of those nonprofits), they need approval from the AG before they're permitted to transfer their assets and dissolve. So it's not as simple as just deciding you want to move and then moving.
posted by holborne at 4:35 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Sweet, sweet shadenfreude.
posted by tommasz at 4:52 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 4:52 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I feel I've mentioned this before but the NRA used to send my uncle the most insane shit in the mail. He used to work for the sheriff's office and was way into guns (to the point where he'd have NRA magazines on top of the toilet for light reading...). One day when I was visiting I found a brochure for NRA insurance to helicopter him out from riots and unrest in war zones. But he never left his retirement community except to go to Wal-Mart or the doctor. There's no reason for him to even consider the idea. But he was. Because he read a lot of NRA propaganda that scared him into thinking there was a danger. The NRA is no different from any other scam business that exploits the trust of people who don't know better for profit. 'Medicare benefits' tv ads. Nigerian prince scams. "I'm your cousin and trapped in a foreign country so wire me money" emails. It's all the same. They exploit the same credulousness and give no shits about who they take the money from.
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:02 PM on January 15, 2021 [31 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 5:02 PM on January 15, 2021 [31 favorites]
IAAL, IANY nonprofit L
A number of states have attorney general offices whose consent or non-objection is usually required for nonprofits of any size to do things like dissolve or merge or transfer out all the assets to another, new entity. New York is not only one of those, but has traditionally had one of the most onerous approval processes around. And the NY AG has both the sophistication and, especially in recent years, the appetite to go up against well-funded, politically-connected nonprofits with expensive lawyers paid by the hour to come up with creative arguments.
So yeah, it’s going to be interesting seeing how this shakes out.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
A number of states have attorney general offices whose consent or non-objection is usually required for nonprofits of any size to do things like dissolve or merge or transfer out all the assets to another, new entity. New York is not only one of those, but has traditionally had one of the most onerous approval processes around. And the NY AG has both the sophistication and, especially in recent years, the appetite to go up against well-funded, politically-connected nonprofits with expensive lawyers paid by the hour to come up with creative arguments.
So yeah, it’s going to be interesting seeing how this shakes out.
posted by joyceanmachine at 5:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
The American firearms industry was, until recently, centered in New England. Remington was based in Ilion, New York; Winchester, Marlin and Colt were in Connecticut, and Smith & Wesson was in Springfield, Massachussets.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 5:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 5:12 PM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
The NRA was founded in 1871. Texas had barely been readmitted to the Union at the time.
posted by Kadin2048 at 5:18 PM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 5:18 PM on January 15, 2021 [6 favorites]
The NRA was founded in 1871. Texas had barely been readmitted to the Union at the time.
Are millennials killing...
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:20 PM on January 15, 2021 [13 favorites]
Are millennials killing...
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 5:20 PM on January 15, 2021 [13 favorites]
They're moving to Dallas because Brewer, the law firm that has been treating them as a piggy bank for the past decade, has its headquarters there no?
posted by bonehead at 5:29 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by bonehead at 5:29 PM on January 15, 2021 [4 favorites]
I won’t shed many tears about this but…
A more extreme universe of advocacy groups are less likely to be able to hide behind the veneer of acceptability that the NRA had. Being associated with the Three Percenters is not a boon to your political career.
posted by Merus at 5:53 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
A more extreme universe of advocacy groups are less likely to be able to hide behind the veneer of acceptability that the NRA had. Being associated with the Three Percenters is not a boon to your political career.
posted by Merus at 5:53 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
A more extreme universe of advocacy groups are less likely to be able to hide behind the veneer of acceptability that the NRA had.
There's a reason that murderous bigot Harlan Carter chose to take over the NRA with the Cincinnati Revolt, rather than create his own organization. Beyond the image aspect, there's the reality that a good portion of the NRA member base - the guys who got their memberships with a gun purchase and kept it for the ammo discount - aren't going to join up with those organizations out of Inertia.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:07 PM on January 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
There's a reason that murderous bigot Harlan Carter chose to take over the NRA with the Cincinnati Revolt, rather than create his own organization. Beyond the image aspect, there's the reality that a good portion of the NRA member base - the guys who got their memberships with a gun purchase and kept it for the ammo discount - aren't going to join up with those organizations out of Inertia.
posted by NoxAeternum at 6:07 PM on January 15, 2021 [7 favorites]
There's also (maybe) the question of size: a single large organization can be more effective when lobbying than a bunch of smaller ones, simply because they can afford more. Since lobbying is a pretty corrupt process at present, being able to afford one high-powered lobbyist firm is probably better than being able to afford six random law firms? Possibly?
The VCDL will not be paying K Street rates.
Same goes for fundraising; it's just less efficient for Smith & Wesson (or whomever) to track down and deal with fifty different dinky activist groups instead of one behemoth. Now they gotta hire more people, spend more time schmoozing these idiots, and so on. More friction, less efficiency.
...which we should all want.
posted by aramaic at 6:08 PM on January 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
The VCDL will not be paying K Street rates.
Same goes for fundraising; it's just less efficient for Smith & Wesson (or whomever) to track down and deal with fifty different dinky activist groups instead of one behemoth. Now they gotta hire more people, spend more time schmoozing these idiots, and so on. More friction, less efficiency.
...which we should all want.
posted by aramaic at 6:08 PM on January 15, 2021 [5 favorites]
A number of states have attorney general offices whose consent or non-objection is usually required for nonprofits of any size to do things like dissolve or merge or transfer out all the assets to another, new entity.I wonder if, since the NY AG was pursuing them with the intention of dissolving them, the NRA would be able to argue this was in some ways at the behest of the NY AG? It would be a shame if they could take their bags when they were chased out of town...
Anyway IANAL so I would love to hear the actual NY non-profit L opinion!
posted by pulposus at 7:08 PM on January 15, 2021
Good riddance. Let Texas have them.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:17 PM on January 15, 2021
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 7:17 PM on January 15, 2021
"Good riddance. Let Texas have them."
I don't want anyone to have them.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:19 PM on January 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
I don't want anyone to have them.
posted by NotTheRedBaron at 7:19 PM on January 15, 2021 [16 favorites]
I wonder if, since the NY AG was pursuing them with the intention of dissolving them, the NRA would be able to argue this was in some ways at the behest of the NY AG? It would be a shame if they could take their bags when they were chased out of town...
I think the problem is the NY wants to possibly seize assets as part of her investigation including trademarks and the like, which wouldn’t be possible if they move out of the jurisdiction.
posted by jmauro at 7:47 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
I think the problem is the NY wants to possibly seize assets as part of her investigation including trademarks and the like, which wouldn’t be possible if they move out of the jurisdiction.
posted by jmauro at 7:47 PM on January 15, 2021 [3 favorites]
Blank stare from clerk as they try to determine if you are an enemy.
That sounds really familiar.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 8:13 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
That sounds really familiar.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 8:13 PM on January 15, 2021 [1 favorite]
Heston is incredulous: "You want me to apologize to the people in Flint?"
Yes.
From my cold, dead hands.
I think cold dead checkbook is apt.
posted by clavdivs at 8:30 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
Yes.
From my cold, dead hands.
I think cold dead checkbook is apt.
posted by clavdivs at 8:30 PM on January 15, 2021 [2 favorites]
For some reason I'm thinking about how Heston's gun jammed in The Omega Man and he was killed by a spear.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:13 PM on January 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
posted by Mr. Yuck at 9:13 PM on January 15, 2021 [17 favorites]
why wouldn't you have moved the organization wholesale to a more favourable regulatory environment?
*shocked voice* "God, you don't expect us to actually live in flyover country?"
posted by soundguy99 at 4:05 AM on January 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
*shocked voice* "God, you don't expect us to actually live in flyover country?"
posted by soundguy99 at 4:05 AM on January 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
For some reason I'm thinking about how Heston's gun jammed in The Omega Man and he was killed by a spear.
Hey, how about a Spoiler Alert warning?
posted by achrise at 6:58 AM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
Hey, how about a Spoiler Alert warning?
posted by achrise at 6:58 AM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
They exploit the same credulousness and give no shits about who they take the money from.
I'd argue that the differences in scale and type of credulousness being exploited are fairly significant.
The NRA increasingly stoked violent and racist fantasies with the backing of an immense and longstanding fundraising apparatus and quite a bit of political pork, in support of a multi-billion dollar industry. Some aspect of it has been about hosing the rubes for quite a while, but it's a lot older and more complex than simple grift or confidence games, and there's a lot more real money involved at the end of that rainbow for the arms manufacturers and lobbyists they bribe.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:59 AM on January 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
I'd argue that the differences in scale and type of credulousness being exploited are fairly significant.
The NRA increasingly stoked violent and racist fantasies with the backing of an immense and longstanding fundraising apparatus and quite a bit of political pork, in support of a multi-billion dollar industry. Some aspect of it has been about hosing the rubes for quite a while, but it's a lot older and more complex than simple grift or confidence games, and there's a lot more real money involved at the end of that rainbow for the arms manufacturers and lobbyists they bribe.
posted by aspersioncast at 6:59 AM on January 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
Same goes for fundraising; it's just less efficient for Smith & Wesson (or whomever) to track down and deal with fifty different dinky activist groups instead of one behemoth. Now they gotta hire more people, spend more time schmoozing these idiots, and so on. More friction, less efficiency.
The NRA was never the primary firearms industry lobbying group. That's the National Shooting Sports Federation.
I'm a gun collector and sport shooter. I hate the NRA. All my gun friends hate the NRA. They have done more to harm our hobby than anyone else. And dont get me started on that idiot congressperson from Colorado. I hope that you please dont lump all gun owners in with these protofascist smooth brains.
posted by nestor_makhno at 8:31 AM on January 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
The VCDL will not be paying K Street rates.
The NRA doesn't pay K St rates either. They live in a glass monstrosity about 25 miles west of DC, right next to the Army and Navy Recruiting Centers (and a dementia day center....) Mostly notable for that time in the 90s when they put up an American flag so oversized it never actually waved, just hung limply in the breeze. There's a metaphor in there somewhere.
posted by basalganglia at 8:37 AM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
The NRA doesn't pay K St rates either. They live in a glass monstrosity about 25 miles west of DC, right next to the Army and Navy Recruiting Centers (and a dementia day center....) Mostly notable for that time in the 90s when they put up an American flag so oversized it never actually waved, just hung limply in the breeze. There's a metaphor in there somewhere.
posted by basalganglia at 8:37 AM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Since the 2nd amendment is supposedly there because it’s a basic right and need of our nation, why don’t we force all arms manufacturers to become non-profits? Once people have whatever guns they need it seems inefficient socially to try to sell them more and more. Same for military weapons. They should be doing it for the good of the country, not for money.
posted by freecellwizard at 8:43 AM on January 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 8:43 AM on January 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Perhaps because of my DSA activities I've lately been getting stuff about the Socialist Rifle Association. I checked out their reddit and its remarkably similar to the NRA reddit. Lots of pix of tacticool gear, worries that "they" will get them and the need to defend against "them".
For the SRA them is at least somewhat more realistic, they're worried about MAGA cultists and militia types while the NRA is worried about Black people (with varying degrees of dogwhistling).
I'm... Ambivalent about the Socialist Rifle Association. On the one hand having more guns around doesn't seem like a good idea at all. On the other, if the MAGA cultists have guns I guess its best that other people do too?
Obviously the better solution is fewer guns overall, but since that isn't happening maybe it's good that the SRA and other armed leftists are around? I don't know.
They sucked his brains out! Hey now, some of us Texans are kind of OK, don't wish the NRA on us. I don't want them here.
posted by sotonohito at 10:51 AM on January 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
For the SRA them is at least somewhat more realistic, they're worried about MAGA cultists and militia types while the NRA is worried about Black people (with varying degrees of dogwhistling).
I'm... Ambivalent about the Socialist Rifle Association. On the one hand having more guns around doesn't seem like a good idea at all. On the other, if the MAGA cultists have guns I guess its best that other people do too?
Obviously the better solution is fewer guns overall, but since that isn't happening maybe it's good that the SRA and other armed leftists are around? I don't know.
They sucked his brains out! Hey now, some of us Texans are kind of OK, don't wish the NRA on us. I don't want them here.
posted by sotonohito at 10:51 AM on January 16, 2021 [8 favorites]
sotonohito: as a fellow Texas resident I feel that. The general vibe here is not great and I don’t think the SRA is particularly overreacting, but at the same time I don’t want to wind up on some right-wing hit list, either, so I’ve kept my distance. Mostly though I don’t think my particular neurodivergence is compatible with firearms at home and gun storage rates at the local ranges are like nine-fucking-thousand a year, to which: fuck that noise. I could practically buy a new gun each time I visit and save money...or is that the business model?
posted by Ryvar at 11:14 AM on January 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by Ryvar at 11:14 AM on January 16, 2021 [3 favorites]
Whatever their larger mission, I think right now the SRA is pretty much overwhelmed giving basic instruction to new gun owners. Things like organizing range days, education re. your state's gun laws, etc. Covid has made the in-person stuff 100x harder, too.
(not a member)
posted by ryanrs at 12:54 PM on January 16, 2021
(not a member)
posted by ryanrs at 12:54 PM on January 16, 2021
I was just looking at SRA's store.
That's just too Soviety. I don't want that either.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 1:50 PM on January 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
That's just too Soviety. I don't want that either.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 1:50 PM on January 16, 2021 [1 favorite]
The SRA's swag was exactly what I was expecting. I get it, I'm the target audience. Still, I just want to take them aside and say, 'be serious, guns are serious stuff' but I haven't been the speartip of actually being the anti-NRA, so maybe it's just not for me. I'm ok with it.
posted by zenon at 2:18 PM on January 16, 2021
posted by zenon at 2:18 PM on January 16, 2021
This is an interesting twist: Major NRA donor to challenge gun group's bankruptcy over alleged fraud [Guardian]
posted by hippybear at 2:25 PM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 2:25 PM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I took a lot of people from the women's center to an outdoor range in Virginia in the 90s and they didn't want to go anymore when Hilary Clinton targets started showing up. I'd never seen people bring anything other than bulls eyes and cans before. We were appalled. Back then I think it was mostly talk radio driving the right towards the cliff.
I don't want to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler but I guess Stalin was better for women? Argh.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:42 PM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't want to have to choose between Stalin and Hitler but I guess Stalin was better for women? Argh.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 2:42 PM on January 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I'll point out that the NRA was founded in New York because it was founded by Union officers who wanted Union trips to shoot better if another war came about, as contrasted with Confederate troops who had grown up (presumably) hunting.
So moving to Texas in order to forment a second civil war aimed at the subjugation of (among others) Black people and to avoid Yankee law is a perfect inversion and betrayal of its founding principles.
posted by Hactar at 4:21 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
So moving to Texas in order to forment a second civil war aimed at the subjugation of (among others) Black people and to avoid Yankee law is a perfect inversion and betrayal of its founding principles.
posted by Hactar at 4:21 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
Only shitty ranges allow actual people targets.
posted by nestor_makhno at 4:21 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by nestor_makhno at 4:21 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
The problem is that a lot of ranges, in order to stay alive, wound up taking money from the NRA - which then hooked them into the right wing culture engine.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:25 PM on January 16, 2021
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:25 PM on January 16, 2021
So moving to Texas in order to forment a second civil war aimed at the subjugation of (among others) Black people and to avoid Yankee law is a perfect inversion and betrayal of its founding principles.
The NRA as it was originally conceived died in Cincinnati. What came forth was a creation of a murderous bigot designed to defend the privilege he thought his right, wearing the skin of the old NRA Ed Gein style.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:27 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
The NRA as it was originally conceived died in Cincinnati. What came forth was a creation of a murderous bigot designed to defend the privilege he thought his right, wearing the skin of the old NRA Ed Gein style.
posted by NoxAeternum at 4:27 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
> I was just looking at SRA's store.
That's just too Soviety. I don't want that either.
If I see someone with a "Gun Rights Are Minority Rights" sticker, I'm going to presume they're a racist jackass.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:50 PM on January 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
That's just too Soviety. I don't want that either.
If I see someone with a "Gun Rights Are Minority Rights" sticker, I'm going to presume they're a racist jackass.
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:50 PM on January 16, 2021 [5 favorites]
Good riddance. Let Texas have them.
We don’t want them. I know gun owners, & a few of them are pretty avid hunters, sport shooters, etc. They all think the NRA is nuts. I do hope this kills them - they’ve been bleeding members & bleeding money for years, and I don’t see this move & chapter 11 filing as anything except a temporary reprieve from the inevitable.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:37 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
We don’t want them. I know gun owners, & a few of them are pretty avid hunters, sport shooters, etc. They all think the NRA is nuts. I do hope this kills them - they’ve been bleeding members & bleeding money for years, and I don’t see this move & chapter 11 filing as anything except a temporary reprieve from the inevitable.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:37 PM on January 16, 2021 [4 favorites]
The problem is that a lot of ranges, in order to stay alive, wound up taking money from the NRA - which then hooked them into the right wing culture engine
An unfortunate reality is that insurance for a range is very expensive. Many smaller ranges only exist because of cheaper, group insurance offered by the NRA. They in turn require all shooters to be members. This has only gotten worse since Operation Chokepoint (which treats the firearms business the same as human trafficking and drug smuggling) has pushed many insurers to stop offering coverage to ranges.
posted by nestor_makhno at 5:45 AM on January 17, 2021
An unfortunate reality is that insurance for a range is very expensive. Many smaller ranges only exist because of cheaper, group insurance offered by the NRA. They in turn require all shooters to be members. This has only gotten worse since Operation Chokepoint (which treats the firearms business the same as human trafficking and drug smuggling) has pushed many insurers to stop offering coverage to ranges.
posted by nestor_makhno at 5:45 AM on January 17, 2021
If I see someone with a "Gun Rights Are Minority Rights" sticker, I'm going to presume they're a racist jackass
I'm sorry hear that. My belief is that gun control in America is firmly rooted in white supremacy and Jim Crow. As Ida B Wells said "a Winchester rifle should have a place of honor in every black home, and it should be used for that protection which the law refuses to give." For many Americans self defense was the only solution. The police either didn't care or were the ones perpetrating the violence. So I don't really think having a sticker that references that would make somebody a racist.
posted by nestor_makhno at 5:52 AM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
They’re trying to make all that fit on a bumper sticker, and it ends up sounding similar “all lives matter” — as if gun owners are a minority group that needs special legal protection just like other minorities. It sounds like you read it as meaning “gun rights are rights for minorities,” but I don’t read it that way. I especially wouldn’t if I were at a gun range, where I always have my guard up for conversations going into unpleasant areas.
(I know “minorities” is a dated term but it’s relevant to this slogan.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:09 AM on January 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
(I know “minorities” is a dated term but it’s relevant to this slogan.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:09 AM on January 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
On the product page it says to put it on your locker or safe! No mention of your car. I found that interesting.
posted by Mr. Yuck at 8:26 AM on January 17, 2021
posted by Mr. Yuck at 8:26 AM on January 17, 2021
I'm sorry hear that. My belief is that gun control in America is firmly rooted in white supremacy and Jim Crow.
This take is just completely unmoored from the modern gun control movement, which is consistently popular (sometimes nearing 100% on policies like expanded background checks) within the Black community. It's disturbingly close to blaming gun control for the massacres of Jews under the Nazis because Hitler supported it.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:58 AM on January 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
This take is just completely unmoored from the modern gun control movement, which is consistently popular (sometimes nearing 100% on policies like expanded background checks) within the Black community. It's disturbingly close to blaming gun control for the massacres of Jews under the Nazis because Hitler supported it.
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 10:58 AM on January 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'd love a cite for a near 100% popularity. I made no claim about modern gun control. Gun control has a historical basis in white supremacy and Jim Crow.
posted by nestor_makhno at 12:08 PM on January 17, 2021
posted by nestor_makhno at 12:08 PM on January 17, 2021
96% of Black voters support universal background checks, and 93% support red flag laws and disarming domestic abusers (Essence magazine, July 2020, reporting on a survey (press release) conducted by Everytown for Gun Safety with some partner orgs, +-3.1% margin of error)
posted by box at 12:18 PM on January 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by box at 12:18 PM on January 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'd love a cite for a near 100% popularity.
You were responding to someone who said if they saw a sticker opposing gun control on the basis of rights for POC, they'd think it's racist. How is that not a statement on modern gun control?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:20 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Black voters strongly support gun violence prevention policies like requiring background checks on all gun sales (96% support; 84% strongly support), disarming domestic abusers (93% support; 77% strongly support), and enacting red flag laws (93% support; 68% strongly support). A majority of Black voters (55%) say a candidate’s position on guns has become more important to their vote than it was three months ago, before the coronavirus pandemic.I made no claim about modern gun control. Gun control has a historical basis in white supremacy and Jim Crow.
You were responding to someone who said if they saw a sticker opposing gun control on the basis of rights for POC, they'd think it's racist. How is that not a statement on modern gun control?
posted by Glegrinof the Pig-Man at 12:20 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
> You were responding to someone who said if they saw a sticker opposing gun control on the basis of rights for POC, they'd think it's racist.
To be clear, that's not what I said: I don't read the sticker as saying that. It might be what the people selling it want it to say, and I believe it's what nestor_makhno thinks it says, but I don't think it's that tidy.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:58 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
To be clear, that's not what I said: I don't read the sticker as saying that. It might be what the people selling it want it to say, and I believe it's what nestor_makhno thinks it says, but I don't think it's that tidy.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:58 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
This has only gotten worse since Operation Chokepoint (which treats the firearms business the same as human trafficking and drug smuggling) has pushed many insurers to stop offering coverage to ranges.
Given the massive outflow of guns to Mexico and the incredibly destabilizing effect its had, I'd call that a self inflicted wound. If the gun industry doesn't want to be seen as smugglers, perhaps they should deal with their smuggling problem.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:34 PM on January 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
Given the massive outflow of guns to Mexico and the incredibly destabilizing effect its had, I'd call that a self inflicted wound. If the gun industry doesn't want to be seen as smugglers, perhaps they should deal with their smuggling problem.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:34 PM on January 17, 2021 [4 favorites]
I made no claim about modern gun control. Gun control has a historical basis in white supremacy and Jim Crow.
And the Republican Party has a historical basis in Abraham Lincoln and abolition. And that historical fact is just about as relevant for the discussion of modern politics as historical gun control. It's not the present and I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
posted by JackFlash at 4:34 PM on January 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
And the Republican Party has a historical basis in Abraham Lincoln and abolition. And that historical fact is just about as relevant for the discussion of modern politics as historical gun control. It's not the present and I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
posted by JackFlash at 4:34 PM on January 17, 2021 [2 favorites]
as if gun owners are a minority group that needs special legal protection just like other minorities
Oh wow, I didn't think of reading it that way. I think Nestor's reading is a lot closer to what's intended, given the sort of people I see with that sticker.
posted by ryanrs at 10:58 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
Oh wow, I didn't think of reading it that way. I think Nestor's reading is a lot closer to what's intended, given the sort of people I see with that sticker.
posted by ryanrs at 10:58 PM on January 17, 2021 [1 favorite]
I also read that sticker the other way. White males who are into the “2nd Amendment” have so co-opted the mantle of the oppressed that I read that as being a sticker of the butthurt variety. As, yes, akin to an “all lives matter” sticker.
posted by amanda at 7:24 AM on January 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by amanda at 7:24 AM on January 18, 2021 [1 favorite]
This talk of ammo discounts is quite staggering to me. The NRA is basically a big coffee shop loyalty card? Buy 5-mags-get-1-free? Wowsers. Wowsers trousers.
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:07 PM on January 20, 2021
posted by turbid dahlia at 3:07 PM on January 20, 2021
And the judge overseeing the NRA lawsuit just chucked out all of the NRA’s motions to dismiss or move the trial:
The NRA argued that the case should be tossed because it belongs in federal, not state court, and that it should be heard in Albany instead of Manhattan.posted by NoxAeternum at 2:57 PM on January 21, 2021 [1 favorite]
The judge rejected all of those requests.
“The attorney general is the chief law enforcement of the state of New York. She is enforcing a New York state statute,” Cohen said at a virtual court hearing. “It would be inappropriate in these circumstances to find that the attorney general cannot pursue her claims in state court just because one of the defendants prefers to proceed in federal court.”
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Good riddance to bad rubbish.
posted by nickggully at 2:26 PM on January 15, 2021 [31 favorites]