It appears that the project as it stands now is just a five-year research venture ... by the time they have anything to try out on us guinea pigs the political climate will have changed one or a couple of times and we'll be neurotic about something else. Like maybe finding out President Hillary Clinton is actually a man, baby.
And yeah, what's up with that creepfest Bavarian Illuminati logo? posted by donkeyschlong at 10:16 AM on August 8, 2002
i tell ya though, that logo beats the one i saw for them with the eye peeking through a keyhole against a stars and stripes background........ posted by zoopraxiscope at 10:35 AM on August 8, 2002
that logo is fucking classic... now do these people just have twisted senses of humor or are the end times near? jeez... posted by techgnollogic at 10:38 AM on August 8, 2002
donkey: The Bavarian logo creeps the hell out of me too. From Edwin Black's grim and fascinating book, IBM and the Holocaust:
"Understandably, Dehomag's 1939 undertaken dwarfed anything it had attempted before, including the 1933 Prussian census. Months of intensive training, conducted in thousands of sessions, prepared legions of volunteers for the critical mission. Police and their auxillaries were mandated to support the count 'with all their powers' and 'to function as census-takers in difficult and confusing residential areas,' according to official regulations.
"The additional Hollerith machinery assembled was massive: 400 electrical key punches, 10 gang punches, 20 summary punches, 300 key punch verifiers, 70 sorters, 50 tabultors, 25 duplicators, and 50 D-11 VZ tabulators. The Reich had imposed seemingly impossible target delivery dates for November 1939. So to increase speed, Dehomag's engineers converted their versatile D-11 calculating tabulator into a pure counting machine dubbed the D-11 VZ. The improvised device could process 12,000 60-column punched cards per hour in sixteen counters and then precision-punch its own summaries onto 80-column cards. Eighty million cards were actually used." posted by ed at 10:38 AM on August 8, 2002
Is that slogan Latin for "Science is Power?" posted by insomnyuk at 11:23 AM on August 8, 2002
I always thought the eye in the pyramid was a Freemason thing that symbolized a shadowy cabal bent on world domination. This interpretation is pooh-poohed at "the World's Oldest Masonic Web-site," which, of course, only serves to confirm it completely.
Hello? 1984 is calling. posted by morningbit at 11:40 AM on August 8, 2002
Thanks mediareport. posted by insomnyuk at 11:47 AM on August 8, 2002
I really didn't mean to derail the thread with that logo comment. The IAO site is a fascinating list of programs which alternately excite my inner sci-fi junkie, and terrify my inner civil libertarian... if this weren't at a .mil domain I'd suspect the whole program of being an elaborate hoax.
Check out project Babylon (which I think they meant to call BabelFish). I want one. Communicator is straight out of Star Trek. Gimmee one of them, too. Genoa II is a combination of fancy data management strategies and statements that sound like they belong on a transhumanism site, not the sort of thing you expect to hear from a government agency. Some cool stuff in there.
On the other hand, things like Human Identification at a Distance ahd Bio-surveillance scare the crap out of me. Wave bye-bye to the privacy of your medical records, just for starters. And... can anyone explain to me what "Story telling, change detection, and truth maintenance" are? posted by ook at 11:58 AM on August 8, 2002
There's a running gag in Bruce Sterling's "Distraction" about the horrific, career-destroying medical condition which the main character secretly has. The gag being that whenever he meets somebody, they say something along the lines of "Don't worry, I won't let your condition affect our relationship."
The logo and the phrase "Truth Maintenance" brought to you courtesy of people who thought the phrase "Department of Homeland Security" wasn't spreading it thick enough. posted by tingley at 12:51 PM on August 8, 2002
If anyone is interested in actual facts about DARPA (which are, sadly, not nearly as interesting as that creepy-ass logo) I used to work for them, supporting intranets for their MEMS and some other SPO and DSO programs.
While this particular program may eventually be of some concern, DARPA itself is not a government branch to be afraid of. They just do research -- that's all. The gist of this program is to develop the capability to have this kind of "total infomration awareness." When DARPA has put the technology together, someone else (probably CIA or possibly DHS in coordination with CIA, FBI, and other Nice Security Agencies) will take over and actually operate it.
Which brings us to why it's of no consequence at all that that crook Poindexter is in charge, beyond blatant Bush cronyism. He's certainly not going to be the guy who actually has his mitts on this thing when it's operational, at least not through DARPA. The project leads at DARPA always stay for five year terms, and are really just coordinator/figureheads. They're more there for political clout and the ability to assemble the right team than any real research contribution.
DARPA, while a lot of it is wrapped in tight cloak-and-dagger secrecy, is actually a really good example of government research done right. They have a very open structure, and the people within the actual working groups are pretty free to just do their job. They turn out tons of useful stuff, from the MEMS accelerometers that control your car's airbag to the GPS system to this here Intarweb thing. posted by rusty at 7:49 PM on August 8, 2002
While this particular program may eventually be of some concern, DARPA itself is not a government branch to be afraid of.
Ah, I see.
DARPA, while a lot of it is wrapped in tight cloak-and-dagger secrecy, is actually a really good example of government research done right.
rusty makes complex hand gesture. seven and one third weeks from now, mediareport inexplicably drops dead of an anyeurism. posted by rusty at 11:33 PM on August 8, 2002
seven and one third weeks from now, mediareport inexplicably drops dead of an anyeurism.
Watch out, hon. You don't know what you're messing with.
John Poindexter would know his way around. "He's certainly not going to be the guy who actually has his mitts on this thing when it's operational, at least not through DARPA."
Oh yes, of course not. posted by sheauga at 12:14 AM on August 9, 2002
I've been thinking about this thread, remembering that Hitler hated Freemasonry almost as much as he hated the Jews, and that many hate groups consider freemasonry and Judaism to be inextricably intertwined, and much of the conversation regarding freemasonry as a secret cabal of all-powerful, anti-Christian Satan worshippers is virtually identical to accusations commonly laid against Jews. Just google "Jews and freemasonry" and see how many of the results are thinly-veiled hate sites.
So I think it's wise to re-examine our thoughts on freemasonry and make sure we're not accepting the common anti-Semitism along with the valid criticism. Here's one page on the topic. posted by evanizer at 12:48 AM on August 9, 2002
ook, you mean, babylon and babel aren't the same thing? posted by yonderboy at 1:36 AM on August 9, 2002
Hell, evanizer, Google "Jews andanything" and see how many of the results are thinly-veiled hate sites. It's a bit of a stretch to suggest there's "common anti-Semitism" in pokes at oh-so-secret all-male societies like the Masons, especially given the Masons' own hot and cold attitudes toward Jews, which the page you offer says generally mirrored "those of the rest of society." Henry Ford's "long anti-Jewish campaign in the 1920's and 1930's" is also noted in your link; Henry Ford was a freaking Mason.
I think it's wise to re-examine our thoughts on freemasonry and make sure we're not accepting the common anti-Semitism along with the valid criticism.
Ok.
*re-examines*
Yep, I'm sure I'm not. Thanks for the heads-up, though. Now back to more important questions, like 1) why an allegedly pro-Enlightenment group shrouds its search for knowledge in secret handshakes and esoteric mystical gobbledygook, 2) what kind of organization has both (J. Edgar Hoover and Salvador Allende as members and 3) did Freemasons really invent jazz? posted by mediareport at 6:50 AM on August 9, 2002
Henry Ford was a Freaking Mason? That sounds so much more interesting than a Free Mason. posted by dhartung at 1:40 PM on August 9, 2002
(which I think they meant to call BabelFish).
... ook, you mean, babylon and babel aren't the same
thing?
.. BabelFish is this from one of the greatest books ever written and is utilized by these guys. .. posted by morningbit at 6:57 PM on August 9, 2002
Ha ha, that's obvious, but I wonder where he got the idea for the name... posted by yonderboy at 3:21 AM on August 13, 2002
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posted by zoopraxiscope at 10:07 AM on August 8, 2002