'90s Dad Thrillers: a List

November 29, 2021 8:49 AM

Notes toward a theory of the Dad Thriller by Max Read Substack, via Samantha Irby's Substack.
posted by ellieBOA (55 comments total)

I'm here for this: "movies prominently featuring monochrome green-on-black display screens." So soothing.
posted by doctornemo at 9:15 AM on November 29, 2021 [6 favorites]

Some follow up at the end of the following week's newsletter.
posted by ellieBOA at 9:25 AM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]

i’ve never felt so seen.
posted by valkane at 9:45 AM on November 29, 2021 [3 favorites]

Movies where the protagonist shouts “MY FAMILY!” in some form
posted by gottabefunky at 9:47 AM on November 29, 2021 [12 favorites]

I am here for these kinds of movies, and am intrigued to see if the discussion extends into the development of the genre into 21st century with things like the Bourne films and the Jack Reacher films. The Bourne films really start as Ludlum novels from the 1980s, but the film versions are more of their time. They, and the Reacher books & films feel like descendants of this type of entertainment, but there's a disillusionment with the establishment not present in the Dad films of the 90s.
posted by nubs at 9:51 AM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

Great piece, but I think he kinda missed that the Taken movies are the ultimate form of the Dad Thriller, since Liam Neeson's character is both a retired spy with a family AND a guy with "very special skills."
posted by soundguy99 at 10:00 AM on November 29, 2021 [9 favorites]

soundguy99, I think it falls out of the current scope of Dad movies of the 90s; Taken was 2008. But I think there's an interesting discussion about how the Dad movies evolved towards Taken in the intervening years.
posted by nubs at 10:02 AM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

Jamelle Bouie's Unclear and Present Danger podcast is highly recommended for how it looks at Dad Thrillers in their cold war context.
posted by Jeanne at 10:11 AM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]

The Kill James Bond! podcast covered a number of these movies recently.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 10:25 AM on November 29, 2021

I thought this was super-interesting and articulated some commonalities in these movies I had never thought of before. Also very much enjoyed the subcategories and their names.

I feel like Jurassic Park is not really like most of the others here since it is much more of an ensemble pic rather than centering around one dad-hero. Also, most of these are characterized by the hero being very much out of their usual element and so films that center a secret agent who is used to mixing it up don't really seem to fit to me. James Bond doesn't have to rely on skills no one, including himself, knew he had—he's James Bond!
posted by grouse at 10:28 AM on November 29, 2021 [3 favorites]

One movie on that list that really stands out, for me, is Stargate. Most of those movies could be redone better or differently these days, but I feel like Stargate can’t be redone without losing a great deal of its story or impact. It had a good cast of under-rated, likable actors, a good story with just enough plausibility to make you want to believe it was somehow true and clearly defined good guys and bad guys. It’s also one of the few to be parent to enduring spin-offs that didn’t, mostly, suck.

You could give it the standard NASA treatment of turning it into a technical film, or the military thriller treatment, but both of those would, I think, suck the heart and soul out of it.

It was one of only two good Roland Emmerich films (the other being Indepence Day).
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 10:45 AM on November 29, 2021 [5 favorites]

One movie on that list that really stands out, for me, is Stargate

If there's a list of Dad TV, the first five seasons of SG-1 should be in the top ten.
posted by Ber at 10:52 AM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]

secure the perimeter

Aw, this reminds me of the interview with best friends Mel Brooks and Carl Reiner:

Q. So you come here, Mel, and you watch TV together?

BROOKS Almost every night. He’s got a wonderful housekeeper-cook and we decide on a menu and a movie.

Q. What did you watch most recently?

BROOKS We watched last night “The Peacemaker.” With Nicole Kidman and, come on. [He gestures to Mr. Reiner.]

REINER George Clooney.

BROOKS Right. It was two and a half stars at the most. Good performances, very silly, you know.

REINER We look for movies with the line “Secure the perimeter.”

BROOKS Yeah, we like movies that say, “Secure the perimeter” and/or “You better get some rest.”

REINER “Lock all doors!”

BROOKS “I want a five-block seal!”

posted by gwint at 11:02 AM on November 29, 2021 [63 favorites]

Not seeing Manhunter or Silence of the Lambs as fitting into the Dad Cinematic Universe. Sure, Will Graham is a man, but his relationship with Molly seems mature, not a daydream. And Clarice Starling is not a dude at all.
posted by SPrintF at 11:04 AM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]

This is what we've been training for! You know your jobs—do them! Go! Go! Go!
posted by jquinby at 11:04 AM on November 29, 2021 [6 favorites]

"Sir, we can't make it out, it's written in huge white letters in Console font on a dark turquoise background."

"Switch to Reader View!"
posted by chappell, ambrose at 11:09 AM on November 29, 2021 [11 favorites]

I like it when someone finally provides a name I can use to bundle up a bunch of benign little sticklers in my unconscious so I can finally throw them away. This one has been bothering me my entire life and now I can finally dump all of this into the bin. Younger generations probably won't understand what it's like to have these unbearable aesthetics forced on you with no escape until you were old enough to choose your own media, now that parents just watch whatever their kids make them watch it's the other way around. Thank you for this post.
posted by bleep at 11:19 AM on November 29, 2021 [12 favorites]

This is great!

How did "Lethal Weapon" not make the cut. Was it too early (1987)?
Or Basic Instinct / Fatal Attraction?
posted by chavenet at 11:28 AM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]

I want to make the claim that the Henry Jones Sr movie, Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade*, is a Dad Thriller. It's not, it's obviously an '80s movie in nostalgic clothing. There's barely a failed state in sight or a stray game-changing item of weaponry, even if the non-field trained analysts in Henry Jones Junior and Henry Jones Senior do rely on book-smarts over brute force to win the day and the bad guy's politics are unintelligible religious magic on top of plain punchable nazism.

*: Is Harrison Ford in it?
posted by k3ninho at 11:29 AM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

How did "Lethal Weapon" not make the cut.

Because all good dads recognize that Mel Gibson is a toxic piece of shit, with no home on their television set.
posted by wenestvedt at 11:41 AM on November 29, 2021 [18 favorites]

mostly unpersuaded of a there there overall, stopped reading at "alex baldwin cucks...." category.
came back here, read comments, tried again and stopped reading at "alex baldwin cucks..."
also not sure of "dad" as a ... useful signifier for categorization of things beyond those related to fatherhood.

on preview, i was wondering why that toxic piece of shit's film conspiracy theory wasn't listed, but not enough to look it up.
posted by 20 year lurk at 11:45 AM on November 29, 2021 [5 favorites]

don't let this derail your fun movie thread but i wanna have a little say. i wish a more inclusive nomenclature for all this kind of stuff would be adopted other than "mom" this and "dad" that. i realize it's just shorthand for a longer, messier, unprecise hodgepodge of other labels and i'm spitting into the wind, but as a person constantly finding themself falling outside of the expected, projected norms of society, it does get so tiresome being always denormalized and excluded to. carry on.
posted by glonous keming at 11:57 AM on November 29, 2021 [15 favorites]

Conspiracy Theory is listed under General Boomer Psychosis and Paranoia
posted by kirkaracha at 11:59 AM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

thanks kirkaracha. guess my eyes had glazed over by then. sometimes i want to watch it again to articulate what was abysmal about it at first viewing decades ago. so far i know better. i'll just watch one of those white house down films again.
posted by 20 year lurk at 12:02 PM on November 29, 2021

i wish a more inclusive nomenclature for all this kind of stuff would be adopted other than "mom" this and "dad" that

I hear you; I feel like the more accurate nomenclature for these films is "90s comfort-thriller films for white, middle-aged middle class men", as these films assert a specific idea about the world: bad things happen out there, but there's no need to be afraid because some white guy, trained or not, will put things aright by the end, and the status quo will not change, and nor should it be.
posted by nubs at 12:03 PM on November 29, 2021 [20 favorites]

How did "Lethal Weapon" not make the cut.

Because Martin Riggs is a Highly Trained Bad-Ass Tier One Operator. It might be a Dad Thriller if only Roger Murtaugh was in it.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:05 PM on November 29, 2021 [10 favorites]

It's bothering me that Con Air (1997) is neither listed in the Dad Thriller Canon nor the Dad Thriller Periphery. It's closer to Dad Thriller than many movies on the periphery, surely.
posted by demonic winged headgear at 12:40 PM on November 29, 2021 [3 favorites]

How did "Lethal Weapon" not make the cut.

Because all good dads recognize that Mel Gibson is a toxic piece of shit, with no home on their television set.

And, in fact, he plays one in the movie! At one point, the "detectives" come to the shocking, impossible realization that perhaps the nice blonde girl they are avenging was not the damsel in distress they were apparently hoping for, and the following dialog ensues:

MURTAUGH: We know someone was in bed with Amanda the night she died.
RIGGS: Right. 'Til now we assumed it was a man.
MURTAUGH: Okay. Let's say it was Dixie.
RIGGS [But let's face it, Gibson]: Okay. Disgusting, but okay.

Yes, Mel. Two women in bed together. That sure is . . . disgusting?

Later, Riggs is actually on fire. Murtaugh jumps on him to smother the flames, and Riggs angrily demands "What are you, a fag!?" The line does not appear in the script. I guess it was just an ad lib. How could Mel possibly have come up with it? What an actor!

In short, 90's Dad Thrillers! I truly love them. They are a land of contrasts. But Mel Gibson is not. He's just an irredeemable pile of shit.
posted by The Bellman at 12:42 PM on November 29, 2021 [19 favorites]

I think they perfectly categorize a genre of movie I've never been able to stand. They are as stupid/silly as the '80s versions (Commando, Predator) but so self-serious they cannot admit it, so they are no fun.

And they aren't as grounded as the '00s versions (Borne movies, Reacher). And Harrison Ford is a bad actor who is in a bunch of good movies, it's not the other way around. Nic Cage is is in too many of these - he always tries to be a grounded government worker but then makes every mission 'personal', where tons of random people die but he works really hard to save own his family - something The Rock has been guilty of a lot lately in his roles.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:07 PM on November 29, 2021

I like the attempt to group the various movies by looking at their commonalities, as the recurring themes do speak to the culture of the time and how it was marketed to, but I hope there this doesn't become another manic pixie dream girl deal where the labeling grows out of control and starts to hide more than it reveals.

Using "Dad Thriller" to capture a brief trend is catchy and gives a reasonable hint at the content of the films, but will lose that value if used as a catch all, which the list already seems to be starting to drift towards with some of the subcategories it tries to encompass like, Movies With Guys With Freaky Rooms Filled With Photos and Cut-Out Newspaper Headlines and some of the titles thrown in to other subcategories like Contact, Long Kiss Goodnight, Malice and so on, as that clearly seems to be finding titles that fit the subcategory while losing the focus of the main connecting ideas. Keep the focus narrow and tight and there's some utility, allow it to drift and it becomes counterproductive.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:40 PM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

It puts the T.V. remote in the basket.
posted by clavdivs at 1:41 PM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

Back then, we didn’t know Mel Gibson had gone off the rails. That was something that came out in the aughts. Up until then, he was doing OK movies, mostly entertaining but not terribly memorable and they didn’t age well.

From the mid-aughts onward, his life has been a dumpster fire, at best, and his output not much better. He’s trying to revive things, but I just don’t see it working out because audiences have selectively long memories for some things.
posted by JustSayNoDawg at 1:52 PM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

Movies Where Aliens and/or Dinosaurs Reflect Existential Anxieties about Capitalism, Democracy, the End of History, and the Looming Disaster of Climate Change

Jurassic Park
Outbreak
Contact
Sphere
Dante's Peak

If there had been aliens and/or dinosaurs in Dante's Peak, I might have watched it.
posted by AndrewInDC at 1:53 PM on November 29, 2021

One movie on that list that really stands out, for me, is Stargate.

Yeah. Stargate is an unassumingly tight and well-paced movie. It has a simple premise which the movie sticks to for the entire film without getting bogged down with too much exposition or universe building. And at the end of the movie they don't set up any sequels, most everyone just goes home to Earth.

If I had to pick a genre movie which comes closest to emulating A New Hope from a structural perspective, I'd actually pick Stargate.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 1:57 PM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]

Fatal Attraction?

I always read this as a morality tale.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 2:13 PM on November 29, 2021 [3 favorites]

I feel like the more accurate nomenclature for these films is "90s comfort-thriller films for white, middle-aged middle class men", as these films assert a specific idea about the world: bad things happen out there, but there's no need to be afraid because some white guy, trained or not, will put things aright by the end

Actually, Heinlein's Competent man arch-type has been available for this labeling, for a long time.
posted by Rash at 2:13 PM on November 29, 2021 [5 favorites]

The scene in "Clear and Present Danger" where Harrison Ford's Jack Ryan shows up the cartel boss' house and presents his CIA business card is the epitome of a Dad Thriller plot point.
posted by AndrewInDC at 2:28 PM on November 29, 2021

This seems to intersect with the interesting theory in blog post Tom Clancy and the Dubious Comfort of Boomer Dads (a more socio-political take), which appeared on the blue a couple of years ago, and was originally a Metafilter Project by Metafilter's own COBRA!
posted by Schmucko at 2:50 PM on November 29, 2021 [6 favorites]

This explains a lot about why I liked Deep Impact but hated Armageddon, and liked Dante’s Peak but hated Volcano. That veneer of dad seriousness totally worked on me at the time, whereas “deflect the lava with the traffic median” did not.
posted by freecellwizard at 3:15 PM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]

>Con Air (1997) is neither listed in the Dad Thriller Canon nor the Dad Thriller Periphery.
It's in the Die Hard on a Plane set of the Venn diagram, demonic wingèd headgear.

I like the line in the Director's Mashup "I'm very upset about these frigging McLanes.on my frigging plane."
posted by k3ninho at 3:59 PM on November 29, 2021 [2 favorites]

As someone who grew up with Dad movies, to the extent that my Dad brought home a mini-marathon of Gene Hackman movies at one time, I was thoroughly sick of them young. When I was watching 'Oh Brother, Where Art Thou' and George Clooney's character, clearly flustered, exclaims "I'm the Paterfamilias!" I nearly died laughing.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:09 PM on November 29, 2021 [5 favorites]

I subjected my partner to Frantic for the first time ever a few weeks ago and she seemed to enjoy it, and I was reminded of how excellent it is. Glad to see it called out as a precursor.
posted by turbid dahlia at 5:14 PM on November 29, 2021 [1 favorite]

I think they perfectly categorize a genre of movie I've never been able to stand. They are as stupid/silly as the '80s versions (Commando, Predator) but so self-serious they cannot admit it, so they are no fun.

One reason True Lies doesn't fit comfortably on this list. Arnold cannot play it straight through one of these things. The choice of Jamie Lee Curtis and Tom Arnold only helps him chop at the foundations of the genre.

Many of these actors Ford, Baldwin can be decently humorous in the right roles, but the Bland Dad Technothriller demands a completer seriosity.
posted by bonehead at 5:47 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]

If anyone actually wants to find movies where they say “Secure the perimeter”, yarn.co and playphrase.me are really fun for this....
posted by oulipian at 5:49 PM on November 29, 2021 [5 favorites]

Movies where the protagonist shouts “MY FAMILY!” in some form

Oh, my friends, behold: Harrison Ford (My Wife! My Family!) Compilation
posted by mochapickle at 5:54 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]

Or Basic Instinct / Fatal Attraction?

I submit that neither of those are Dad movies. Maybe “Dad and Mom Once the Kids are Finally Asleep” movies, but definitely not exclusively Dad movies.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:38 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]

What's the genre of pop culture thinkpieces that inevitably overgeneralize and include several bogus examples while excluding some obvious gimmes? The Rabin Roundup?
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:10 PM on November 29, 2021 [4 favorites]

Seconding the rec for Jamelle Bouie’s podcast on the political context of (mostly) 90s political/military thrillers
posted by dismas at 8:26 PM on November 29, 2021

I know I'm expecting too much from a newsletter, but I found myself driven to distraction by the inconsistent rendering of titles that start with the definite article (there's at least one other person here on MeFi who understands). I'm not sure if it's better or worse that many are inconsistent between the figures and the body text.

The Hunt for Red October (correct in the figures), The Sum of All Fears, The Bourne Identity (missing the article in Figure 1), The Thomas Crown Affair, and The Silence of the Lambs (missing in Figure 1).

I wonder if the author would consider Spartan to be a "'00s Dad Thriller".
posted by Strutter Cane - United Planets Stilt Patrol at 11:43 PM on November 29, 2021

After giving this some mild thought, I think the article makes some mistake in how it tries to define "Dad thrillers", ending up basically just looking at a nexus of Grisham and Clancy and then grabbing anything vaguely connected via subcategories that don't really work rather than trying to figure out what it is that makes those movies "Dadlike". My take would be more that a "Dad movie", not just a "Dad thriller", are films primarily concerned with maintaining rules led by a character, usually a man of course, of significant "moral" wisdom who sees through the seeming complicating dilemmas that threaten the status quo and overcomes them. It isn't about the battle between good and evil, so serial killer movies and the like don't really fit, and it isn't just about an "adult" middle class tone, so stuff like Sphere or other "serious" sci-fi and the like often don't suit it either, it's more about the maintenance of order and legacy against the forces of chaos or corrupted princible told in a socially unthreatening manner.

This opens the door to a lot of movies from a variety of genres the piece doesn't delve into, but I think have a strong case to be made as "Dad movies", stuff like My Cousin Vinny, Bull Durham, Tombstone, Saving Private Ryan, and at the far end of socially unthreatening, but near the heart of the would be genre, Goodfellas for movies from the nineties and has some possible utility in covering movies from outside that era as well, taking in movies like some of the Westerns, War movies, Adventure yarns and other stuff. Movies that question the role of the father, suggest ambivalence to "rules", or otherwise hint that the status quo may be the problem would not be "dad movies" in that sense, so no Silence of the Lambs and its father as monster, no Casino with its rigged game, but The Godfather, Brian's Song, and National Treasure would still be relevant as "the rules" can encompass the rules of sports, the importance of the Constitution, and Mafia codes.
posted by gusottertrout at 12:18 AM on November 30, 2021 [6 favorites]

I ffound myself driven to distraction by the inconsistent rendering of titles that start with the definite article (there's at least one other person here on MeFi who understands).


Maybe this one too, though they did forget 'the' (again).
posted by jamjam at 2:50 AM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]

I can't be the only one who read this entire thing in the voice of Abed Nadir.

Also Figure 2 tantalizes us with a tiiiiiny little sliver of overlap between "Movies with Jack Ryan," "Movies where the president is a character seems like a a cool guy," and "Movies that are specifically Die Hard on a plane," but there's nothing in it :-(
posted by Mayor West at 7:45 AM on November 30, 2021

it doesn't count, but Fatal Attraction IV: When Hell Boils Over imagines things from the rabbit's perspective having (barely) survived the stew pot. Horribly scarred but noble spirit intact, the rabbit proceeds to savage all the deserving humans. All of them.
#gofundmenow
posted by elkevelvet at 2:41 PM on November 30, 2021 [1 favorite]

I can't believe there isn't an entire sub-genera devoted to Tony Scott.
posted by TheShadowKnows at 8:51 PM on November 30, 2021

I can't believe there isn't an entire sub-genera devoted to Tony Scott.

Heh. I used to dislike Scott's films, thinking of him mostly via his work for the production team of Simpson and Bruckheimer, but once I noticed most of Scott's later movies tend to share a theme of a man coming to realize the system he had been working for his whole life is fucked up and corrupt, he goes all out in one final manuever to negate the damage he helped inflict, basically trying to erase his own past, sometimes literally as in Deja Vu.

Domino is the main exception, but only for having Kiera Knightley as the lead instead of Denzel Washington, Redford, or Hackman and showing the entire arc of her brief fucked up career as child of celebrity/bounty hunter. It's amazeballs, like really fantastic if you can accept Scott using every possible camera trick there is, sometimes within a single scene, to build the tone/world for the story. Those later films seem to shed a bit of light on his earlier work with Bruckheimer/Simpson and, just maybe, suggest something about the outlook that led him to take his own life.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:01 AM on December 1, 2021 [1 favorite]