This is one of the two general spider saving poems I use.

May 18, 2022 9:47 AM

This is a single link to a thoughtful twitter thread about choosing not to kill a a spider.
posted by eotvos (40 comments total)

Amen. They're startling & creepy but who isn't. They still deserve help. Who doesn't.
posted by bleep at 10:19 AM on May 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

Do they need a hug?
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:20 AM on May 18, 2022

This seems like an awfully literal reading of that poem...
posted by colorblindrg at 10:22 AM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

Daddy Kill the Spider
posted by Splunge at 10:29 AM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

I have been thinking about that thread because there's a spitting spider living in our shower, who really doesn't understand the concept of water, and she's constantly in peril of getting washed away, and it's actually pretty hard to save a spider when everything's soaking wet. I'd feel so bad if she died, even though she scares the hell out of me on basically a daily basis at this point. Someone needs to have a talk with the spider about one's ethical obligations toward someone who insists on putting themselves in harm's way.
posted by mittens at 10:30 AM on May 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

This seems like an awfully literal reading of that poem...

Absolutely agreed. Fair point. But, both things can be true, and I think the person who said it understands the poem better than me.
posted by eotvos at 10:31 AM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

This reads like something a Marvel supervillain would write (from jail) after being soundly defeated by by the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 10:35 AM on May 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

With two doordasher cats in the household, any door to the outside is only opened on a scheduled basis when absolutely needed and all felines are secured/occupied with a meal. So I usually kill spiders rather than orchestrating an unscheduled Door Opening. Sorry, spiders. You can kill me next go-round when I reincarnate into you.
posted by Flock of Cynthiabirds at 10:42 AM on May 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

I'm not generally an "author intent" person but I feel like if I wrote a poem about not killing spiders & someone used it as a justification for not killing spiders I would feel like a slam dunk.
posted by bleep at 11:01 AM on May 18, 2022 [30 favorites]

If I wrote a poem about not killing spiders, it would indeed literally be about not killing spiders, and it would weird me out that people decided to interpret it as a metaphor and implied "of course you don't REALLY think you shouldn't kill spiders". It'd be weird not to be believed; I really don't like killing spiders.

I'm not afraid of bugs but I get nervous around them because I'm afraid of squishing them accidentally. Is this an excess of empathy gone mad: maybe, could be, who knows, but it me.
posted by Zephyr at 11:07 AM on May 18, 2022 [10 favorites]

Why put them outside? They like being inside.

There used to be a rain spider who lived just under the rim of my rainwater barrel. During the hard lockdown. Loved seeing it there. Even though big hairy long legged fast moving spiders give me the heeby jeebies.

My previous home had a rain spider who lived in the lounge. She usually stayed in her corner but sometimes she'd go wandering.

A friend has two enormous golden orb spiders near her back door. I watched one the other day, sitting in her web, plucking at it, so intent.

Thanks for sharing the poems.
posted by Zumbador at 11:22 AM on May 18, 2022 [9 favorites]

On killing flies: Charles Lamb, Thoughtless Cruelty:

There, Robert, you have kill'd that fly — ,
And should you thousand ages try
The life you've taken to supply,
You could not do it.

On killing wasps: George Macbeth, The Wasps' Nest:

I watched, just a foot
From her eyes, very glad of the hard glass parting
My pressed human nose from her angry sting
And her heavy power to warm the cold future
Sunk in unfertilized eggs. And I thought: if I reached
And inched this window open, and cut her in half
With my unclasped pen-knife, I could exterminate
An unborn generation.
posted by verstegan at 11:42 AM on May 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

Here's a story from North America...
posted by AlSweigart at 11:44 AM on May 18, 2022

I think literal is a good way to first engage with a work. If you engage with it in a literal way, it sticks in your brain more than if you skim it and forget it. Then you can come back to it and relate to it in more metaphorical ways later. Practicing not killing little, unimportant, abhorrent things is an okay place to practice, even if we hope people can move beyond that.

I liked the poem, thanks for the post.
posted by agentofselection at 11:46 AM on May 18, 2022 [5 favorites]

"Why put them outside? They like being inside."

Because MrsJM likes being inside -- and she's very allergic to spider bites and insect stings.

So I catch them in a tissue and put them outside.

As I've gotten older, I've come to believe there's enough death and dying in the world without my contributing to it.
posted by MrJM at 12:15 PM on May 18, 2022 [9 favorites]

big hairy long legged fast moving spiders give me the heeby jeebies

One of the best things I've ever seen was the reaction of little ms flabdablet to having just such a spider drop into her lap from the top of the sun shade as she was racking up roughly her seventieth hour behind the wheel as a learner driver.

She remained in complete control of the car as she pulled over to the side of the road, and remained in complete control of herself until she'd (a) got out of the car (b) found which bit of her clothing the spider was now hiding in (c) brushed it off onto the ground (d) got back into the car and (e) shut the door. Only then did she let her heebies and jeebies out for a bit of a run, at which point we had to wait a few minutes before she felt OK to move off again.

She's a hell of a kid; I wouldn't have been able to do that at her age. In fact, concern about the likely consequences of that very scenario happening at highway speeds was what motivated me to use graduated exposure to disassemble my own arachnophobia because I could easily see it turning fatal.

That disassembly has completely worked. I'm now the one always called upon to pick up and evict the huntsmen from our house when they bother other people, and I like to think that my total lack of freakout while watching from the passenger seat helped her cope as well as she did, but really the credit is all hers.

Since that incident she's been a bit more conscientious about making sure that the car windows are all rolled up tight before leaving it parked overnight :-)
posted by flabdablet at 12:25 PM on May 18, 2022 [12 favorites]

My rule is, I'm content to let spiders chill on the ceiling and in the corners of the room. But the moment one decides to lazily drop down from the ceiling or walk across a surface like a desk or a table, it's instant banishment to the outer realms.

Size is also a factor. Cute little pencil-eraser sized jumping spiders can live on my indoor plants (so long as they don't break The Agreement) but those quarter-sized orb weaving spiders that show up in late summer must stay outside.

Long legged house spiders are tolerated (as are house centipedes) as long they stay in the basement or out of sight. Otherwise: instant banishment.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

Practicing not killing little, unimportant, abhorrent things is an okay place to practice

Training up in ceasing to abhor little, unimportant, harmless and frequently helpful things is good too. I'd much rather share my living space with spiders than with flies and mosquitoes.
posted by flabdablet at 12:28 PM on May 18, 2022 [5 favorites]

My sister and I stayed in an AirBnB this summer and there was a fairly biggish hairy spider in the bathroom. We named it Frankie and pretty much ignored him/her, other than wanting to make sure whether or not he was chilling directly over the tub when we wanted to shower.

At the end of our stay it was a really tough call whether or not to tell our hosts about Frankie. We didn't want them to think we were complaining, or kill him / her. But we also figured they should probably know before the next guests showed up. In the end we ended up saying something.

I still wonder whether that affected my guest rating.
posted by Mchelly at 12:30 PM on May 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

Spiders eat insects
Some spiders eat cockroaches
Spiders are my friends
posted by credulous at 12:41 PM on May 18, 2022 [6 favorites]

an awfully literal reading of that poem

Before one studies poetry, spiders are spiders and dragons are dragons; after a glimpse into the truth of poetry, spiders are no longer spiders and dragons are no longer dragons; after enlightenment, spiders are once again spiders and dragons once again dragons.


I maintain a cordial detente with my house spiders--they keep themselves to themselves and I don't try to interfere, but if I spy somebody out and about they're likely to get evicted. I've only had to put out one lost wasp so far this spring, usually I'm re-homing confused bumblebees for weeks. I do take a hard line with scouting ants, however, as once they establish a scent trail into your kitchen they're incredibly hard to discourage.
posted by radiogreentea at 12:55 PM on May 18, 2022 [5 favorites]

We keep friend spiders, but partially because they, um, eat other things. I hope they eat silverfish. (Is it really friendly to harbor a creature mostly because it kills other creatures that are worse?)
posted by nat at 12:58 PM on May 18, 2022

Do they need a hug?

When it starts purring, reach in for one. Some larger house spiders are also known to roll over for belly/cephalothorax rubs.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:01 PM on May 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

Great minds think alike. I love that video. Look up. :)
posted by Splunge at 1:02 PM on May 18, 2022

When it starts purring, reach in for one. Some larger house spiders are also known to roll over for belly/cephalothorax rubs.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:01 PM on May 18 [+] [!]



Don't do it, that's how they get close enough to suck your brains out.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 1:07 PM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

I'm absolutely terrified of spiders and house centipedes but work very hard not to kill or disturb them, because they are my partners in Roach Deterrence. (And roaches, I'm afraid, get handled with extreme prejudice. I ain't no monument to justice. But this is why I am on a hair trigger anytime someone uses cockroach-language to describe a person; oh, that right there is the reddest of flags.)

But even as a fairly stringent housekeeper I've never entirely understood the animosity toward ants. They seem so small and ask for so little. I'd rather have them about than many other type of critter.

(I grant that there are other varieties of ant that are larger and more destructive, but they're not common anywhere I've lived, so I can't really say how I'd feel about them.)

The other day I encountered a quite huge bug I'd never seen before, just chilling on the throw blanket at my partner's house, a few inches from my ear. I was definitely startled, and hopped up with my phone to take a photo and examine, and google to see what to do. But unfortunately, my partner read this response as "o halp with this bug" and promptly smooshed the thing.

O reader, that is how we learned it were a stink bug.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:35 PM on May 18, 2022 [4 favorites]

Tarantulas on the Lifebuoy
By Thomas Lux

For some semitropical reason
when the rains fall
relentlessly they fall

into swimming pools, these otherwise
bright and scary
arachnids. They can swim
a little, but not for long

and they can’t climb the ladder out.
They usually drown—but
if you want their favor,
if you believe there is justice,
a reward for not loving

the death of ugly
and even dangerous (the eel, hog snake,
rats) creatures, if

you believe these things, then
you would leave a lifebuoy
or two in your swimming pool at night.

And in the morning
you would haul ashore
the huddled, hairy survivors

and escort them
back to the bush, and know,
be assured that at least these saved,
as individuals, would not turn up

again someday
in your hat, drawer,
or the tangled underworld

of your socks, and that even—
when your belief in justice
merges with your belief in dreams—
they may tell the others

in a sign language
four times as subtle
and complicated as man’s

that you are good,
that you love them,
that you would save them again.
posted by MonkeyToes at 1:42 PM on May 18, 2022 [24 favorites]

after enlightenment, spiders are once again spiders and dragons once again dragons.

And Frankenstein really was the monster after all. (Not disagreeing nor claiming to be enlightened. Just entertained by the statement.)
posted by eotvos at 2:42 PM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

So I named all the spiders in my house "Flimpy". I got the kids, who are arachnophobic due to a combination of Huntsmen spider sizes and what is now known as the "Spider Baby Incident", to feel less threatened by Flimpy than the giant flying cockroaches that are endemic to Sydney. Let me tell you, nothing like a stare-down with a giant cockroach who is debating running towards you while you are vulnerable sitting on your toilet. Flimpy is welcome in my home.
posted by jadepearl at 2:48 PM on May 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

Don't do it, that's how they get close enough to suck your brains out.

Note: Spiders do not treat hugs and belly-thorax rubs as signs of weakness or behavioral compliance.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 2:48 PM on May 18, 2022 [2 favorites]

It is nice that there is such an outpouring of empathy for spiders here!

I too these days feel an empathy for them, but sadly, sometimes my great fear still gets the best of me and I end up squishing them. I'm sorry, spiders, but my life is already filled with so much fright. I try to save you when I can, but that isn't always.
posted by JHarris at 4:47 PM on May 18, 2022 [4 favorites]

I must be slow. I can’t see any other way to read that poem.
Except the other obvious allegory: that we can’t attack things just because we don’t understand them; we shouldn’t fear and thus attack immigrants or those that are different background than us; and so on. Right? Is there more?
posted by St. Peepsburg at 8:20 PM on May 18, 2022

OMG I *love* that poem, MonkeyToes!

I've never entirely understood the animosity toward ants. They seem so small and ask for so little. I'd rather have them about than many other type of critter.

Ants are pretty cool, but the are more difficult to live with than spiders.

When I lived in Durban (where plants and insects are both bigger and much more numerous) ants would sometimes set their marching route straight over wherever you might be sleeping. So you'd wake up with ants *everywhere *, and they'd be in a foul mood too, interpreting your sleepy bafflement as aggression.

Lines of chalk disrupt their scent trails, so I used to enjoy writing them rude messages, or pretending to be a witch and draw ant-warding sigils around my bed.
posted by Zumbador at 8:33 PM on May 18, 2022 [3 favorites]

A large wolf spider took up residence behind the sponge on the bathroom sink. He startled me the first time I saw him and I took care not to dislodge him. A few days later he was gone but I noticed the trash can under the sink was turned over and the bath mat was rucked up next the tub. My cat Baby Goat came in and made hunting pounces all around the area. When I righted the trash can and straightened the mat I saw the curled up body of the spider. I was sad and placed his body on the ground in the yard.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 8:46 PM on May 18, 2022 [5 favorites]

It's important to read to children.
One of the first books I can remember is Be Nice to Spiders, about a spider named Helen who lives at the zoo.

I admit that spider saving became less convenient with the demise of print magazines, and the resulting loss of those little subscription cards* to scoop them up and carry them outside with.
(*called blow-ins, but s/h/b fall-outs).
posted by bartleby at 9:02 PM on May 18, 2022 [5 favorites]

Me to spiders I take outside:

Today, you; tomorrow, me!

I wish the fast stupid ones didn't take so long to corral and get onto a flyswatter for transport, though.
posted by spacewrench at 11:07 PM on May 18, 2022 [1 favorite]

What a sweet thread, and yes, spiders trespassing get a lecture on how not paying rent means no guarantees of being allowed to stay if they reside somewhere daft like the bathtub followed by a gentle eviction. Applies to all trespassers, actually, even cockroaches get a careful catch-and-release (I haven't the heart to harm them even if they lead to ear-splitting shrieks from the significant other).

Am working on trying to make the backyard nicer for insects than the indoors in the vague hope of a long-term reduction of eviction duties.
posted by Ravneson at 12:54 AM on May 19, 2022 [3 favorites]

Oh, I haven't intentionaly killed an insect since I was a kid. They're just trying to get by, like all of us, you know.

We stayed once at this great eco-farm in Italy once. the place was crawling with insects and no way you could keep them out of your room. House centipedes scurrying in the bathroom was kind of freaky. Being from Mexico, what really got to me though was seeing scorpions crawl around the room. Really, there are scorpions in Italy! My wife thought they were cute though.

Anyways, back to spiders. We have a small bowl of rocks near one window where a jumping spider lives. We call him Spikey. I see him/her a couple times a week jumping around looking for whatever tinier things they eat. There are some larger spiders in the house but they are really good at quickly retreating into corners so I don't know if they are persistent enough to get names.
posted by vacapinta at 3:12 AM on May 19, 2022 [3 favorites]

Mrs C doesn't like spiders. So I try to evict them unharmed whenever I can. Usually this works.

I draw the line at the nests, though. Spider nests indoors get vaccuumed up, sorry.

I do wish spiders would stop pooping black dots on the white window trim.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:57 AM on May 19, 2022

So this little black asshole spider has been living in my office for a few days now. He's fat and short-legged and fast. Over the past week or so I've evicted several spindly yellow spiders pretty easily, because they are douchebags who feel the need to climb around on my computer desk and monitor while I am sitting here working, which is a good way to get yourself swept up into a paper cup and escorted out the back door. I mean, they are house spiders so I don't feel like I'm doing them any particular favor, but I imagine the birds in the nearby tree might appreciate the snack.

But the asshole spider... this little bastard can see me coming for him before I can get within three feet of him. He's been hanging out on the window screen, and every time I try to sneak up on him with the cup he scurries behind the edge of the window frame where I can't get to him.

So today he's been crawling around on the ceiling on the other side of the room, where I've been eyeing him warily. He's too high up for me to reach with the cup, and while my husband is probably tall enough, he has an incredible gift for missing the spider with the cup who then drops behind the nearest piece of furniture to fight again another day. I'd be tempted to let him be but I just know he/she is looking for a place to crap out a hundred babies. He's lucky my vacuum cleaner hose doesn't reach that high.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 10:01 AM on May 19, 2022 [3 favorites]