As the pandemic drags on, one way to counter chronic languishing
October 24, 2022 9:35 AM Subscribe
Suffering from time confetti and revenge bedtime procrastination? Listen/read to nurture the neglected middle child of mental health. Adam Grant: How to stop languishing and start finding flow | TED
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup
Shit. That's exactly what I've been doing since the fucking pandemic began. I don't think I'm depressed as such. I'm not creatively blocked particularly. But I haven't published any new material an almost three years, and this describes what I've been doing to a T. Finally a name for it.
Okay, let's see if this guy has anything useful to do about it.
posted by Naberius at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Okay, let's see if this guy has anything useful to do about it.
posted by Naberius at 10:44 AM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
There is a transcript for those who prefer it.
I like that his example isn't "learned to paint meaningful landscapes" or something. He says that what got him all those three things was family Mario Kart competitions. Attainable, unpretentious and fun.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2022 [15 favorites]
I like that his example isn't "learned to paint meaningful landscapes" or something. He says that what got him all those three things was family Mario Kart competitions. Attainable, unpretentious and fun.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:16 AM on October 24, 2022 [15 favorites]
I like that his example isn't "learned to paint meaningful landscapes" or something. He says that what got him all those three things was family Mario Kart competitions.
I believe it was either Jane McGonigal's Reality is Broken or Steven Johnson's Everything Bad is Good for You that recounted an early gamer story: some jazz legend got addicted to Tetris, and said, basically, that the feeling of elation that had taken him twenty years to discover with his trumpet had come to him only hours after becoming a gamer.
Games are literally designed to help people find flow states. There was a span of time, in the late 00s/early 10s, where every game designer or UX person I knew was obsessed with flow states.
(That said, it's worth pointing out that the actual science behind flow states, which I still like a lot as a concept, has got some pretty glaring issues, and was devised by a guy with some pretty messed-up theories about both race and mental health. Game Studies Study Buddies has an episode on that, if you're bored and curious. Though it doesn't make the idea of flow any less interesting, in the same way that idk you can think Malcolm Gladwell is full of shit and still follow his ideas to neat and useful places.)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:24 AM on October 24, 2022 [33 favorites]
I believe it was either Jane McGonigal's Reality is Broken or Steven Johnson's Everything Bad is Good for You that recounted an early gamer story: some jazz legend got addicted to Tetris, and said, basically, that the feeling of elation that had taken him twenty years to discover with his trumpet had come to him only hours after becoming a gamer.
Games are literally designed to help people find flow states. There was a span of time, in the late 00s/early 10s, where every game designer or UX person I knew was obsessed with flow states.
(That said, it's worth pointing out that the actual science behind flow states, which I still like a lot as a concept, has got some pretty glaring issues, and was devised by a guy with some pretty messed-up theories about both race and mental health. Game Studies Study Buddies has an episode on that, if you're bored and curious. Though it doesn't make the idea of flow any less interesting, in the same way that idk you can think Malcolm Gladwell is full of shit and still follow his ideas to neat and useful places.)
posted by Tom Hanks Cannot Be Trusted at 11:24 AM on October 24, 2022 [33 favorites]
I needed this today. Thank you.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 11:29 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tafetta, darling! at 11:29 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Is there a difference between flow a states and dopamine hits?
posted by alex_skazat at 11:29 AM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by alex_skazat at 11:29 AM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
youtube version if you're like me and like to put things in the, "Watch later" bucket if you find something neat but gotta get some shit done.
posted by alex_skazat at 11:30 AM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by alex_skazat at 11:30 AM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Time Confetti and the Broken Promise of Leisure [PDF] , Ashley Whillans for Harvard Business School (October 7, 2020)
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:40 AM on October 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 11:40 AM on October 24, 2022 [7 favorites]
Is there a difference between flow a states and dopamine hits?
A flow state involves just enough challenge - it is not so easy that it's boring, and it's not so difficult that it provokes anxiety or discouragement. So there are certainly video games that provide almost not challenge at all but do give you "dopamine hits" - games like Candy Crush that involve a very small amount of skill and a large amount of luck, and things like slot machines that involve no skill at all.
That being said, both can involve a kind of hypnotic or trance state where you can lose track of time and have a hard time pulling yourself away, and that seems potentially dangerous whether it's a slot machine or Elden Ring or practicing the saxophone. (At least practicing the saxophone involves enough physical exertion that most of us are in no danger of doing it for fourteen hours, forgetting to eat and sleep.)
posted by Jeanne at 11:54 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
A flow state involves just enough challenge - it is not so easy that it's boring, and it's not so difficult that it provokes anxiety or discouragement. So there are certainly video games that provide almost not challenge at all but do give you "dopamine hits" - games like Candy Crush that involve a very small amount of skill and a large amount of luck, and things like slot machines that involve no skill at all.
That being said, both can involve a kind of hypnotic or trance state where you can lose track of time and have a hard time pulling yourself away, and that seems potentially dangerous whether it's a slot machine or Elden Ring or practicing the saxophone. (At least practicing the saxophone involves enough physical exertion that most of us are in no danger of doing it for fourteen hours, forgetting to eat and sleep.)
posted by Jeanne at 11:54 AM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
Mihaly Csikszentimihaly comes to to mind
posted by y2karl at 12:03 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by y2karl at 12:03 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
He's not wrong, but I'm curious why Mario Kart matters but the iOS games I play in bed don't. Are we just spending 18 hours a day "living" so we can get to the important stuff in bed?
posted by pwnguin at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by pwnguin at 12:09 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
Are we just spending 18 hours a day "living" so we can get to the important stuff in bed?
Lord knows I am
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:11 PM on October 24, 2022 [34 favorites]
Lord knows I am
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 12:11 PM on October 24, 2022 [34 favorites]
Everyone's different (and there's some type of addiction trait I struggle with), but video games feel the same as doomscrolling TikTok - dopamine source but otherwise empty 99% of the time, so I try to avoid both.
The, "flow state" (which I don't actually believe in) is also attained by making a TODO list, breaking down big things into sizeable chunks, doing them, then checking that little box - and onto the next one!
posted by alex_skazat at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
The, "flow state" (which I don't actually believe in) is also attained by making a TODO list, breaking down big things into sizeable chunks, doing them, then checking that little box - and onto the next one!
posted by alex_skazat at 12:16 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
He's not wrong, but I'm curious why Mario Kart matters but the iOS games I play in bed don't.
I think the important part is the spoken anticipation (of playing) against people you personally know which creates a shared experience (reminiscing,memories, simultaneous & shared joy etc) vs the actual playing of the game. If you are playing IOS games in bed with people you know, creating a shared history, then it counts.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:20 PM on October 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
I think the important part is the spoken anticipation (of playing) against people you personally know which creates a shared experience (reminiscing,memories, simultaneous & shared joy etc) vs the actual playing of the game. If you are playing IOS games in bed with people you know, creating a shared history, then it counts.
posted by The_Vegetables at 12:20 PM on October 24, 2022 [9 favorites]
Huh, I think of tiny task tick-offs as harnessing dopamine. Flow state is when I get involved enough that I keep going without checking my list. Ideally I get connected enough that I can work on the non-decomposable inward of a problem.
posted by clew at 12:21 PM on October 24, 2022 [18 favorites]
posted by clew at 12:21 PM on October 24, 2022 [18 favorites]
clew, "the non-decomposable inward of a problem" is beautiful language. When I use the word flow I mean that state in which I can move around the problem and zoom in and out and effect change effortlessly. The state in which I'm seeing the whole thing in a gestalt and I can just flow around in it.
I like my dings of dopamine too though, and I write many lists with checkboxes next to them.
posted by Horkus at 12:47 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I like my dings of dopamine too though, and I write many lists with checkboxes next to them.
posted by Horkus at 12:47 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think the important part is the spoken anticipation (of playing) against people you personally know which creates a shared experience (reminiscing,memories, simultaneous & shared joy etc) vs the actual playing of the game.
I think the "shared experience" part is key. At peak pandemic a good friend of mine and I had a series of remote "watch parties" (although is it really a party if there are just two people?) over 6 months or so. Slowly the time between showings got longer and then tailed off completely, we haven't had one for a year or so.
But it was great fun to chat MSTK style during the film, and definitely more memorable than just zoning out as one tends to do.
posted by jeremias at 1:47 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I think the "shared experience" part is key. At peak pandemic a good friend of mine and I had a series of remote "watch parties" (although is it really a party if there are just two people?) over 6 months or so. Slowly the time between showings got longer and then tailed off completely, we haven't had one for a year or so.
But it was great fun to chat MSTK style during the film, and definitely more memorable than just zoning out as one tends to do.
posted by jeremias at 1:47 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I've experienced flow only once, as far as I remember. I was writing an essay (for school, but also for pleasure), looked at the clock, and several hours had gone by in what I would have guessed was ten minutes. It was different from getting lost in a good book and losing track of the time, or wandering around Hyrule and not really paying attention to the time. I was being creative and the time just vanished.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:59 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:59 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
You can be in a state of what some people call "flow" when you're working through your task list and each successful completion propels and motivates you to the next item on the list and so on. Usually these tasks are relatively simple or straightforward administrative tasks and can be quite addictive as they "need" to get done and you feel busy and rewarded for doing so. I think many people literally spend their entire lives in this sort of busy work, which hey, if it's working for you, great. But I guess there's another state of flow that means engaging with something challenging but not overwhelming where time slips away and gives work and life great meaning. Different types of mind states, both good and rewarding in their own ways.
posted by flamk at 2:19 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by flamk at 2:19 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Oh so managers who send task after task must be wanting us to experience THEIR love of THEIR idea of flow. MY idea of flow is jamming with the band or making an art piece so no wonder we don't understand each other.
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:31 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by tiny frying pan at 2:31 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
That dude has a voice that I can only describe as a 'Simpsons voice' and I don't know why.
posted by pipeski at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2022
posted by pipeski at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2022
I'm broken, and can't figure it out. I miss flow desperately! And, I am afraid of it.
posted by Goofyy at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by Goofyy at 2:43 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
Ugh my kingdom for a job in which I could just do tasks, and ever finish even a single thing. Today I had one "task" which should have taken only a couple of hours. Except I ended up having to do 3x the anticipated amount of work because the previous task-holder didn't really do most of what they were supposed to. And during that time, I was interrupted approximately every seven minutes with a question or request about not only a different task, but a different project for a different department entirely. Eventually I just gave up and have been reading the internet ever since.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:44 PM on October 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 2:44 PM on October 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
It's a fundamental law of the universe that TED talks are misleading bullshit, but I'm not equipped to determine how this particular talk is misleading bullshit.
posted by star gentle uterus at 3:06 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by star gentle uterus at 3:06 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
It's not bullshit except he doesn't really get into the "how to fix" part.
posted by bleep at 3:16 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by bleep at 3:16 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I think it’s in the "simple, but the simple things are hard" advice-quadrant. Spend more time with people you like and love, doing things you all enjoy: yes! And yet, surprisingly difficult!
posted by clew at 3:24 PM on October 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
posted by clew at 3:24 PM on October 24, 2022 [8 favorites]
It's a fundamental law of the universe that TED talks are misleading bullshit, but I'm not equipped to determine how this particular talk is misleading bullshit.
If its any consolation, dude has two entire TED affiliated podcasts. Whatever problems you might have with TED or pop-sci more generally don't appear to bother him. Personally, I've been bit too often by TED presenters overstating or outright frauding to bother trusting anything said while standing on a red dot.
Show us the data!
posted by pwnguin at 4:03 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
If its any consolation, dude has two entire TED affiliated podcasts. Whatever problems you might have with TED or pop-sci more generally don't appear to bother him. Personally, I've been bit too often by TED presenters overstating or outright frauding to bother trusting anything said while standing on a red dot.
Show us the data!
posted by pwnguin at 4:03 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
There is a Moment in each Day that Satan cannot find,
Nor can his Watch Fiends find it, but the Industrious find
This Moment & it multiply, & when it once is found
It renovates every Moment of the Day if rightly placed
- WB, Milton
call it flow, groove, whatever.. I personally find this to be elusive, but it's worth looking for it and making it happen. I associate this with creative time and what The corpse in the library describes completely jives with my understanding.
posted by elkevelvet at 4:09 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Nor can his Watch Fiends find it, but the Industrious find
This Moment & it multiply, & when it once is found
It renovates every Moment of the Day if rightly placed
- WB, Milton
call it flow, groove, whatever.. I personally find this to be elusive, but it's worth looking for it and making it happen. I associate this with creative time and what The corpse in the library describes completely jives with my understanding.
posted by elkevelvet at 4:09 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
Ohhh he’s organizational psych, that’s why it sounds like bullshit. These are basic psychological concepts but framed in a way business people will like.
Despite his claim to the contrary he is describing depression; hopelessness is not required to be depressed and anhedonia (lack of pleasure in doing things) is one of the main features. It may be mild depression but it’s still depression. The “fix it” he’s describing is behavioral activation, which is a well studied treatment for depression. Schedule regular times to do things you enjoy (or used to enjoy) every day. If you can check off some of the following, even better: 1) it connects you with people you love, 2) it increases your feelings of mastery or gives you a sense of accomplishment, 3) it gets you moving, 4) it gets you out into nature or another environment you love, 4) it uses your creativity, 5) it engages multiple senses. He’s got 1, 2, and 5, so that’s a good set up for successful behavioral activation. And even if it’s not actually severe enough to “qualify” as depression, the same basic principles should apply for similar experiences that don’t rise to a clinical level.
So yeah, it’s based in legit (and fairly simple) psychology, it’s just being framed using language that’s generally associated with a lot of bullshit and so is probably pinging people’s radars there.
posted by brook horse at 4:53 PM on October 24, 2022 [25 favorites]
Despite his claim to the contrary he is describing depression; hopelessness is not required to be depressed and anhedonia (lack of pleasure in doing things) is one of the main features. It may be mild depression but it’s still depression. The “fix it” he’s describing is behavioral activation, which is a well studied treatment for depression. Schedule regular times to do things you enjoy (or used to enjoy) every day. If you can check off some of the following, even better: 1) it connects you with people you love, 2) it increases your feelings of mastery or gives you a sense of accomplishment, 3) it gets you moving, 4) it gets you out into nature or another environment you love, 4) it uses your creativity, 5) it engages multiple senses. He’s got 1, 2, and 5, so that’s a good set up for successful behavioral activation. And even if it’s not actually severe enough to “qualify” as depression, the same basic principles should apply for similar experiences that don’t rise to a clinical level.
So yeah, it’s based in legit (and fairly simple) psychology, it’s just being framed using language that’s generally associated with a lot of bullshit and so is probably pinging people’s radars there.
posted by brook horse at 4:53 PM on October 24, 2022 [25 favorites]
Here's the original TED (Baxter) talk.
I've been waiting decades for someone to post this clip to Youtube.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:52 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
I've been waiting decades for someone to post this clip to Youtube.
posted by zaixfeep at 5:52 PM on October 24, 2022 [5 favorites]
So yeah, it’s based in legit (and fairly simple) psychology, it’s just being framed using language that’s generally associated with a lot of bullshit and so is probably pinging people’s radars there.
It fits the pop-sci Gladwellian TED template of taking an existing and well-understood phenomenon and repackaging it under a slick, catchy, new name
posted by Ayn Marx at 6:32 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
It fits the pop-sci Gladwellian TED template of taking an existing and well-understood phenomenon and repackaging it under a slick, catchy, new name
posted by Ayn Marx at 6:32 PM on October 24, 2022 [2 favorites]
He’s not just playing Mario Kart, he’s playing Mario Kart with his loved ones. Which you can’t just say “poof” and they appear.
posted by anshuman at 6:42 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by anshuman at 6:42 PM on October 24, 2022 [4 favorites]
TED Talks are so fascinating. Not the talks really, but the phenomenon of it bursting into the zeitgeist like Frankie Goes to Hollywood, frozen yogurt, Charles Bukowski (not the general zeitgeist, but successive waves of teens trying to learn rebellion), beanie babies, or what have you. Then the formula quickly became played-out and seen-through, even while the brand sold itself to increasingly meager and less inspired offshoots. Now I feel like it is a joke, at least to the people who were the early adopters. In retrospect, just the fact that it was named after technology, entertainment and design, instead of something like science, education and justice, is pretty telling. And as much as I think all of that is true, it isn’t at all a bad idea to make interesting ideas accessible to a broad audience, so I’m not quite sure where it all went wrong. Maybe the exclusivity and insidery nature of the conference itself. I am kind of surprised that it is still going, in the way that I was surprised to realize that they still make Capri Sun, even though I haven’t thought of it since the 80s. Perhaps it is more popular than ever.
posted by snofoam at 7:07 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by snofoam at 7:07 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
He’s not just playing Mario Kart, he’s playing Mario Kart with his loved ones. Which you can’t just say “poof” and they appear.
In fairness, he specifically discussed playing online while having a video call on. Not always a possibility, but easier than "poof" and they're there. I've found many things infinitely more enjoyable and rejuvenating by hopping in a Discord call with some friends or family while I do whatever I'm doing, or even just posting play-by-plays or the most interesting bits of whatever I'm reading/watching/playing/cooking in a group chat with actively online friends (not posting to a social media wall where people may not respond until hours after I'm done with the experience). So I can attest to those virtual connections being positive, but they do need to be real-time, I believe.
posted by brook horse at 7:48 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
In fairness, he specifically discussed playing online while having a video call on. Not always a possibility, but easier than "poof" and they're there. I've found many things infinitely more enjoyable and rejuvenating by hopping in a Discord call with some friends or family while I do whatever I'm doing, or even just posting play-by-plays or the most interesting bits of whatever I'm reading/watching/playing/cooking in a group chat with actively online friends (not posting to a social media wall where people may not respond until hours after I'm done with the experience). So I can attest to those virtual connections being positive, but they do need to be real-time, I believe.
posted by brook horse at 7:48 PM on October 24, 2022 [1 favorite]
I took that as a reminder that not everyone has people to spend time with, whatever the medium.
posted by clew at 8:15 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by clew at 8:15 PM on October 24, 2022 [3 favorites]
> The, "flow state" (which I don't actually believe in) is also attained by making a TODO list, breaking down big things into sizeable chunks, doing them, then checking that little box - and onto the next one!
Some days one is just in a good mood, with high energy level, and it just seems easier to get stuff done. I don't see that as flow, although that set of conditions is certainly more conducive to flow.
For me, "flow state" is most possible by getting fully into a desired activity which I've been anticipating and planning for. Hobbies, avocations, outings. And when the activity proves to be as engrossing and pleasant as anticipated. Some work/home projects (eg a programming assignment, renovating a room) can also induce a flow state, if you enjoy the activity. But most often, the flow-inducing activity is something saved as a reward for getting through the TODO stuff which usually isn't. Dessert, after finishing yer veggies.
On reflection, I suppose if I could get that flow state regularly just by completing TODO lists, I'd be a CEO or something.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:50 AM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
Some days one is just in a good mood, with high energy level, and it just seems easier to get stuff done. I don't see that as flow, although that set of conditions is certainly more conducive to flow.
For me, "flow state" is most possible by getting fully into a desired activity which I've been anticipating and planning for. Hobbies, avocations, outings. And when the activity proves to be as engrossing and pleasant as anticipated. Some work/home projects (eg a programming assignment, renovating a room) can also induce a flow state, if you enjoy the activity. But most often, the flow-inducing activity is something saved as a reward for getting through the TODO stuff which usually isn't. Dessert, after finishing yer veggies.
On reflection, I suppose if I could get that flow state regularly just by completing TODO lists, I'd be a CEO or something.
posted by Artful Codger at 7:50 AM on October 25, 2022 [1 favorite]
No, you'd be a CEO if you were flogging one more webapp that manages some hyped-up version of contextual TODO lists that requires Zapier to 'sync' with anything and costs $45 a month.
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:22 PM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 6:22 PM on October 25, 2022 [3 favorites]
where have you gone merlin man and co
a nation turns its inboxes to you
woo woo woo
what's that you say, cory doctorow?
merlin mann has left and gone away
like ze frank, and LJ.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:58 AM on October 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
a nation turns its inboxes to you
woo woo woo
what's that you say, cory doctorow?
merlin mann has left and gone away
like ze frank, and LJ.
posted by snuffleupagus at 7:58 AM on October 26, 2022 [3 favorites]
I know you all have long to-do lists, but I hate wasting time so much that I have a to-don't list. Don't scroll on social media, don't check my phone in bed and don't turn on the TV unless I already know what I want to watch. But last year I found myself breaking all of those rules. I was staying up way past midnight, doomscrolling, playing endless games of online Scrabble and bingeing entire seasons of TV shows that weren't even good. The next morning I'd wake up in a daze and swear, "Tonight in bed by 10:00." But it kept happening night after night for weeks. What was I thinking?
As an organizational psychologist, I have spent my whole career studying motivation, so it really bothers me when I can't explain my own behavior. I wasn't depressed. I still had hope. Wasn't burned out, had energy. Wasn't lonely, I was with my family. I just felt a little bit aimless and a little bit joyless. Eventually, I remembered there's a name for that feeling: languishing. Languishing as a sense of emptiness, stagnation and ennui. It was coined by a sociologist Corey Keyes and immortalized by a philosopher, Mariah Carey.
(Laughter)
When you're languishing, it just feels like you're muddling through your days, looking at your life through a foggy windshield. So I'm curious how many of you have felt like that over the past few months. OK, those of you who didn't have the energy to raise your hands --
(Laughter)
you might be languishing right now. And you over here who didn't laugh, you're definitely languishing. Strangely enough --
[How are you feeling today? Meh. Meh. Meh.]
(Laughter)
Some of you passed the quiz. Strangely enough, what rescued me from that feeling was playing Mario Kart. But let's back up for a second.
In the early days of covid, a lot of us were struggling with fear, grief and isolation. But as the pandemic dragged on with no end in sight, our acute anguish gave way to chronic languish. We were all living in “Groundhog Day.” It felt like the whole world was stagnating. So I wrote an article to put languishing on the map. I called it "the neglected middle child of mental health" and I suggested it might be the dominant emotion of our time. And soon it was everywhere. I was seeing it all over the media, being discussed by celebrities, by royalty. I've never seen people so excited to talk about their utter lack of excitement.
(Laughter)
And -- I think -- I think that naming languishing helped people make sense of some puzzling experiences. Why even after getting vaccinated people were having trouble looking forward to the rest of the year. Why when "National Treasure" came on TV, my wife already knew all the words by heart. And why I was staying up way too late, falling victim to what's known as revenge bedtime procrastination.
(Laughter)
We were looking for bliss in a blah day and purpose in a perpetual pandemic. But languishing is not unique to a pandemic. It's part of the human condition. Two decades of research show that languishing can disrupt your focus and dampen your motivation. It's also a risk factor for depression because languishing often lurks below the surface. You might not notice when your drive is dwindling or your delight is dulling You’re indifferent to your own indifference, which means you don't seek help and you might not even do anything to help yourself. Meh. Languishing isn't just hard to spot, though. In many cultures, it's hard to talk about, too. When people ask, "How are you?," you're expected to say, "Great!" or "Living my best life." That's called toxic positivity.
(Laughter)
It's the pressure that we face to be optimistic and upbeat at all times. If you say, "You know, I'm just OK," then people might encourage you to look on the bright side or count your blessings, which isn't just annoying. It can actually be bad advice.
Can I get two volunteers? I will cold-call if I have to, don't all jump at once. OK, right over here. You can come up to a mic and can I get another volunteer right over there, up to this mic, please. A round of applause for our two volunteers.
(Applause)
Hi, what's your name?
Martin: Martin.
Adam Grant: Thank you. Can you tell us three good things about your life, please?
Martin: I’m married and I’m healthy and I’m happy.
AG: All right, I’m glad the marriage came in first. Well done. OK, over here. What’s your name?
Lee: Lee.
AG: Lee, can you tell us 42 good things about your life?
Lee: My cat Titchypoo, my dog Enzo. And so my wife, Jazz.
AG: Third behind the dog and the cat.
(Laughter)
Well played.
Lee: My children, Indio and Walter, Manchester United Football Club, my friends, TED.
AG: TED coming in at ringing eighth.
Lee: TED is very high, TED is very high. The poetry of C.S. Lewis, E.E. Cummings, Dylan Thomas.
AG: You want to name all the poets you’ve ever heard of? Alright, Lee, thank you. We’re going to pause you there. Round of applause. Thank you both.
(Applause)
So for a long time, I assumed that people in Lee's position were going to be happier than Martin. But when I ran the experiment, I found the exact opposite. That people who are randomly assigned to count more blessings, are actually, on average, less happy because you start to run out of things to be optimistic about. And if you don't know that many poets ...
(Laughter)
The harder it is to find good things about your life, the more you feel like, well, maybe my life isn't that good.
In the early days of the pandemic, researchers found that the best predictor of well-being was not optimism. It was flow. Flow is that feeling of being in the zone, coined by the psychologist Mihály Csíkszentmihályi. It's that state of total absorption in an activity. For you, it might be cooking or running or gardening where you lose track of time and you might even lose your sense of self. Flow is the appeal of a Netflix binge because you get transported into a different world and immersed in a story. But bingeing is a temporary escape from languishing, not a cure. At best, it leaves you with a bunch of asymmetric relationships. You might love hanging out with your friends: Chandler, Arya, Dwight, Buffy -- Buffy, anyone? --
(Laughter)
Joe Exotic, Peppa Pig. (Whispers) But they don't know you exist. Bingeing is passive engagement in a fictional world, peak flow depends on active participation in the real world, which is why I was so surprised to find my flow while driving a cartoon car in a Nintendo game. When the pandemic first started, all three of our kids were at home in online school, and that lasted for a full year. It was not easy. One day we found this on our six-year-old's report card.
[can independently mute and unmute himself when requested to do so]
(Laughter)
You know, I know some adults who still haven't figured that out yet, not just online, but in real life, too. So I guess we had that to celebrate.
But like many of you, we were isolated from extended family. My sister was halfway across the country. And one day we were reminiscing about how much we love playing Mario Kart as we were kids. And she said, "Well, we could all play together online now." Why don't we start a family game? And soon we were playing every day with a video call running at the same time. And after a couple of weeks I stopped feeling so blah. I was living zen in the art of Mario Kart.
(Laughter)
In the morning our kids were waking up, asking what time we would play. They were excited. And they loved it when I would gloat about an impending victory, only to be bombed by a flying blue shell and then just sit there watching all three of our kids drive past me to the finish line in tiny go-carts. We had so much fun that we started a new Saturday night tradition after the kids were asleep. Adult Mario Kart.
(Laughter)
So after reflecting on that experience, I'm proud to present to you for the first time my Mario Kart theory of peak flow. It has three conditions: mastery, mindfulness and mattering.
Let's start with mastery. Mastery is something a lot of us have been having a hard time finding lately.
(Laughter)
Psychologists find that at work the strongest factor in daily motivation and joy is a sense of progress. We find that our happiness depends in Western cultures more on how our projects are going today than how they went yesterday. That's why Nike says, "Just do it." I guess if Nike had been started in a more past-focused country like China, their slogan would be, "Just did it." If languishing is stagnation, flow involves momentum. But mastery does not have to be a big accomplishment, it can be small wins. Small wins explain why I was drawn to online Scrabble for the rush of playing a seven-letter word. Small wins makes sense of why so many people were thrilled to bake their first loaf of sourdough bread. And small wins explain why one engineer spent an entire afternoon mastering the art of stacking M&M's on top of each other. Take a look.
(Video) This is going to be harder than I thought. Oh! Oh! Five M&Ms! Five M&Ms!
(Laughter)
AG: Turns out that was a world record.
(Laughter)
That kind of mastery depends on a second condition for flow, mindfulness. Focusing your full attention on a single task, not something a lot of us are doing that much these days.
[Are you OK? You’re barely paying attention to your book, phone, show ... ] [ ... laptop and the crossword you started ten minutes ago.]
There's evidence that on average, people are checking emails 74 times a day, switching tasks every 10 minutes, and that creates what's been called time confetti, where we take what could be meaningful moments of our lives and we shred them into increasingly tiny, useless pieces. Time confetti is an enemy of both energy and of excellence. If we want to find flow, we need better boundaries.
[It keeps me from looking at my phone every two seconds.]
(Laughter)
When I think about boundaries, I think of an experiment by organizational scholar Leslie Perlow. She went to a Fortune 500 company and she tested a quiet time policy. No interruptions three mornings a week before noon. On average, engineers spiked in productivity. 47 percent of them were more productive than usual. But the best part is that when the company made quiet time official policy, they had 65 percent above average productivity. I don't think there's anything magical about Tuesday, Thursday, Friday before noon. The lesson here is that we need to treat uninterrupted blocks of time as treasures to guard.
Now, mastery and mindfulness will get you to flow, but there's a third condition that turns it into a peak experience. Mattering. Knowing that you make a difference to other people. Early in my career, I was studying fundraising callers who were trying to bring in alumni donations to a university, and I knew they were languishing when I saw this sign posted on their wall.
[Doing a good job here is like wetting your pants in a dark suit] [You get a warm feeling but no one else notices]
(Laughter)
I wanted to study how to show them that their work mattered. So I designed a series of experiments and over the next month, one group of callers on average more than doubled in weekly time on the phone and nearly tripled in weekly revenue. What moved the needle was randomly assigning them to meet one student whose scholarship had been funded by their work. Now, instead of focusing on the monotonous process of making calls, they were absorbed in a meaningful purpose of helping to fund tuition. So think about the people who would be worse off if your job didn't exist. Those are the people who make your work matter. You need to know their names, their faces and their stories, and you can find flow in projects that benefit them.
This all explains why Mario Kart was such a great experience for me. It gave me a feeling of mastery, the sweet satisfaction of a perfectly placed banana peel for my sister to slip on. It required mindfulness too. My brother-in-law was the best player. Beating him demanded total concentration, especially when my kids were ganging up with him against me. And it wasn't just a game. It mattered. Over the past year, we've all felt helpless in one way or another. I felt helpless to fix covid. I couldn't even do that much to make online school better. And I'm a teacher. But in Mario Kart, I felt helpful. I was able to give my kids something to look forward to when we couldn't go anywhere. I was able to keep my family close when we were far apart. We normally think of flow as an individual experience. But playing Nintendo, we were all immersed together. And although we don't play daily anymore, I feel closer to my sister and my brother-in-law than I ever had before. I learned that love is not the frequency of communication, it's the depth of connections. I also realized that the antidote to languishing does not have to be something productive, it can be something joyful. Our peak moments of flow are having fun with the people we love, which is now a daily task on my to-do list.
So what's your version of Mario Kart? Where do you find mastery and mindfulness with the people who matter to you? I think we need to rethink our understanding of mental health and well-being. Not depressed doesn't mean you're not struggling. Not burned out doesn't mean you're fired up. When someone says, "How are you?," it's OK to say, "Honestly, I'm languishing." Or if you can only muster one syllable, "Meh."
(Laughter)
And when you're ready, you can start finding the flow that lights a path out of the void.
Thank you.
(Applause)
posted by mecran01 at 6:01 PM on October 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
As an organizational psychologist, I have spent my whole career studying motivation, so it really bothers me when I can't explain my own behavior. I wasn't depressed. I still had hope. Wasn't burned out, had energy. Wasn't lonely, I was with my family. I just felt a little bit aimless and a little bit joyless. Eventually, I remembered there's a name for that feeling: languishing. Languishing as a sense of emptiness, stagnation and ennui. It was coined by a sociologist Corey Keyes and immortalized by a philosopher, Mariah Carey.
(Laughter)
When you're languishing, it just feels like you're muddling through your days, looking at your life through a foggy windshield. So I'm curious how many of you have felt like that over the past few months. OK, those of you who didn't have the energy to raise your hands --
(Laughter)
you might be languishing right now. And you over here who didn't laugh, you're definitely languishing. Strangely enough --
[How are you feeling today? Meh. Meh. Meh.]
(Laughter)
Some of you passed the quiz. Strangely enough, what rescued me from that feeling was playing Mario Kart. But let's back up for a second.
In the early days of covid, a lot of us were struggling with fear, grief and isolation. But as the pandemic dragged on with no end in sight, our acute anguish gave way to chronic languish. We were all living in “Groundhog Day.” It felt like the whole world was stagnating. So I wrote an article to put languishing on the map. I called it "the neglected middle child of mental health" and I suggested it might be the dominant emotion of our time. And soon it was everywhere. I was seeing it all over the media, being discussed by celebrities, by royalty. I've never seen people so excited to talk about their utter lack of excitement.
(Laughter)
And -- I think -- I think that naming languishing helped people make sense of some puzzling experiences. Why even after getting vaccinated people were having trouble looking forward to the rest of the year. Why when "National Treasure" came on TV, my wife already knew all the words by heart. And why I was staying up way too late, falling victim to what's known as revenge bedtime procrastination.
(Laughter)
We were looking for bliss in a blah day and purpose in a perpetual pandemic. But languishing is not unique to a pandemic. It's part of the human condition. Two decades of research show that languishing can disrupt your focus and dampen your motivation. It's also a risk factor for depression because languishing often lurks below the surface. You might not notice when your drive is dwindling or your delight is dulling You’re indifferent to your own indifference, which means you don't seek help and you might not even do anything to help yourself. Meh. Languishing isn't just hard to spot, though. In many cultures, it's hard to talk about, too. When people ask, "How are you?," you're expected to say, "Great!" or "Living my best life." That's called toxic positivity.
(Laughter)
It's the pressure that we face to be optimistic and upbeat at all times. If you say, "You know, I'm just OK," then people might encourage you to look on the bright side or count your blessings, which isn't just annoying. It can actually be bad advice.
Can I get two volunteers? I will cold-call if I have to, don't all jump at once. OK, right over here. You can come up to a mic and can I get another volunteer right over there, up to this mic, please. A round of applause for our two volunteers.
(Applause)
Hi, what's your name?
Martin: Martin.
Adam Grant: Thank you. Can you tell us three good things about your life, please?
Martin: I’m married and I’m healthy and I’m happy.
AG: All right, I’m glad the marriage came in first. Well done. OK, over here. What’s your name?
Lee: Lee.
AG: Lee, can you tell us 42 good things about your life?
Lee: My cat Titchypoo, my dog Enzo. And so my wife, Jazz.
AG: Third behind the dog and the cat.
(Laughter)
Well played.
Lee: My children, Indio and Walter, Manchester United Football Club, my friends, TED.
AG: TED coming in at ringing eighth.
Lee: TED is very high, TED is very high. The poetry of C.S. Lewis, E.E. Cummings, Dylan Thomas.
AG: You want to name all the poets you’ve ever heard of? Alright, Lee, thank you. We’re going to pause you there. Round of applause. Thank you both.
(Applause)
So for a long time, I assumed that people in Lee's position were going to be happier than Martin. But when I ran the experiment, I found the exact opposite. That people who are randomly assigned to count more blessings, are actually, on average, less happy because you start to run out of things to be optimistic about. And if you don't know that many poets ...
(Laughter)
The harder it is to find good things about your life, the more you feel like, well, maybe my life isn't that good.
In the early days of the pandemic, researchers found that the best predictor of well-being was not optimism. It was flow. Flow is that feeling of being in the zone, coined by the psychologist Mihály Csíkszentmihályi. It's that state of total absorption in an activity. For you, it might be cooking or running or gardening where you lose track of time and you might even lose your sense of self. Flow is the appeal of a Netflix binge because you get transported into a different world and immersed in a story. But bingeing is a temporary escape from languishing, not a cure. At best, it leaves you with a bunch of asymmetric relationships. You might love hanging out with your friends: Chandler, Arya, Dwight, Buffy -- Buffy, anyone? --
(Laughter)
Joe Exotic, Peppa Pig. (Whispers) But they don't know you exist. Bingeing is passive engagement in a fictional world, peak flow depends on active participation in the real world, which is why I was so surprised to find my flow while driving a cartoon car in a Nintendo game. When the pandemic first started, all three of our kids were at home in online school, and that lasted for a full year. It was not easy. One day we found this on our six-year-old's report card.
[can independently mute and unmute himself when requested to do so]
(Laughter)
You know, I know some adults who still haven't figured that out yet, not just online, but in real life, too. So I guess we had that to celebrate.
But like many of you, we were isolated from extended family. My sister was halfway across the country. And one day we were reminiscing about how much we love playing Mario Kart as we were kids. And she said, "Well, we could all play together online now." Why don't we start a family game? And soon we were playing every day with a video call running at the same time. And after a couple of weeks I stopped feeling so blah. I was living zen in the art of Mario Kart.
(Laughter)
In the morning our kids were waking up, asking what time we would play. They were excited. And they loved it when I would gloat about an impending victory, only to be bombed by a flying blue shell and then just sit there watching all three of our kids drive past me to the finish line in tiny go-carts. We had so much fun that we started a new Saturday night tradition after the kids were asleep. Adult Mario Kart.
(Laughter)
So after reflecting on that experience, I'm proud to present to you for the first time my Mario Kart theory of peak flow. It has three conditions: mastery, mindfulness and mattering.
Let's start with mastery. Mastery is something a lot of us have been having a hard time finding lately.
(Laughter)
Psychologists find that at work the strongest factor in daily motivation and joy is a sense of progress. We find that our happiness depends in Western cultures more on how our projects are going today than how they went yesterday. That's why Nike says, "Just do it." I guess if Nike had been started in a more past-focused country like China, their slogan would be, "Just did it." If languishing is stagnation, flow involves momentum. But mastery does not have to be a big accomplishment, it can be small wins. Small wins explain why I was drawn to online Scrabble for the rush of playing a seven-letter word. Small wins makes sense of why so many people were thrilled to bake their first loaf of sourdough bread. And small wins explain why one engineer spent an entire afternoon mastering the art of stacking M&M's on top of each other. Take a look.
(Video) This is going to be harder than I thought. Oh! Oh! Five M&Ms! Five M&Ms!
(Laughter)
AG: Turns out that was a world record.
(Laughter)
That kind of mastery depends on a second condition for flow, mindfulness. Focusing your full attention on a single task, not something a lot of us are doing that much these days.
[Are you OK? You’re barely paying attention to your book, phone, show ... ] [ ... laptop and the crossword you started ten minutes ago.]
There's evidence that on average, people are checking emails 74 times a day, switching tasks every 10 minutes, and that creates what's been called time confetti, where we take what could be meaningful moments of our lives and we shred them into increasingly tiny, useless pieces. Time confetti is an enemy of both energy and of excellence. If we want to find flow, we need better boundaries.
[It keeps me from looking at my phone every two seconds.]
(Laughter)
When I think about boundaries, I think of an experiment by organizational scholar Leslie Perlow. She went to a Fortune 500 company and she tested a quiet time policy. No interruptions three mornings a week before noon. On average, engineers spiked in productivity. 47 percent of them were more productive than usual. But the best part is that when the company made quiet time official policy, they had 65 percent above average productivity. I don't think there's anything magical about Tuesday, Thursday, Friday before noon. The lesson here is that we need to treat uninterrupted blocks of time as treasures to guard.
Now, mastery and mindfulness will get you to flow, but there's a third condition that turns it into a peak experience. Mattering. Knowing that you make a difference to other people. Early in my career, I was studying fundraising callers who were trying to bring in alumni donations to a university, and I knew they were languishing when I saw this sign posted on their wall.
[Doing a good job here is like wetting your pants in a dark suit] [You get a warm feeling but no one else notices]
(Laughter)
I wanted to study how to show them that their work mattered. So I designed a series of experiments and over the next month, one group of callers on average more than doubled in weekly time on the phone and nearly tripled in weekly revenue. What moved the needle was randomly assigning them to meet one student whose scholarship had been funded by their work. Now, instead of focusing on the monotonous process of making calls, they were absorbed in a meaningful purpose of helping to fund tuition. So think about the people who would be worse off if your job didn't exist. Those are the people who make your work matter. You need to know their names, their faces and their stories, and you can find flow in projects that benefit them.
This all explains why Mario Kart was such a great experience for me. It gave me a feeling of mastery, the sweet satisfaction of a perfectly placed banana peel for my sister to slip on. It required mindfulness too. My brother-in-law was the best player. Beating him demanded total concentration, especially when my kids were ganging up with him against me. And it wasn't just a game. It mattered. Over the past year, we've all felt helpless in one way or another. I felt helpless to fix covid. I couldn't even do that much to make online school better. And I'm a teacher. But in Mario Kart, I felt helpful. I was able to give my kids something to look forward to when we couldn't go anywhere. I was able to keep my family close when we were far apart. We normally think of flow as an individual experience. But playing Nintendo, we were all immersed together. And although we don't play daily anymore, I feel closer to my sister and my brother-in-law than I ever had before. I learned that love is not the frequency of communication, it's the depth of connections. I also realized that the antidote to languishing does not have to be something productive, it can be something joyful. Our peak moments of flow are having fun with the people we love, which is now a daily task on my to-do list.
So what's your version of Mario Kart? Where do you find mastery and mindfulness with the people who matter to you? I think we need to rethink our understanding of mental health and well-being. Not depressed doesn't mean you're not struggling. Not burned out doesn't mean you're fired up. When someone says, "How are you?," it's OK to say, "Honestly, I'm languishing." Or if you can only muster one syllable, "Meh."
(Laughter)
And when you're ready, you can start finding the flow that lights a path out of the void.
Thank you.
(Applause)
posted by mecran01 at 6:01 PM on October 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
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