A Turkish couple living in Germany who want to call their child "Osama bin Laden" have been refused permission by German officials.

September 5, 2002 12:35 PM

A Turkish couple living in Germany who want to call their child "Osama bin Laden" have been refused permission by German officials. A couple in German can only name their child if it fulfills a set of criteria. The child's name must identify its' gender and not make fun of the child. Also names like Hitler are banned.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood (35 comments total)

dumbass. asinine. obvious.
posted by interrobang at 12:37 PM on September 5, 2002

Does anyone else find this odd, the Gov't telling you what you can and can't name your child? I don't like that fact that the parents want to name their kid Osama, but isn't that their choice?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:37 PM on September 5, 2002

Yes interrobang, I wanted a little discussion on this... Not a photoshop contest.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:39 PM on September 5, 2002

That kid would get the snot beat out of him. Daily. Until he died. That's no good.
posted by callmejay at 12:39 PM on September 5, 2002

Yes interrobang, I wanted a little discussion on this... Not a photoshop contest.

Oh. Sorry.
posted by interrobang at 12:41 PM on September 5, 2002

maybe they can name it Turok...

it seems like a strange law, but I've heard of a lot of stranger ones.
posted by stifford at 12:41 PM on September 5, 2002

I think it is odd. But then again, many European governments have powers Americans would consider odd. Did you know that no religious symbols at all are allowed in French public schools? That means no kepas for Jewish students, no cross for Christians (they can be worn against the skin under clothing, and none of those head scarves (who's name I don't know) for Muslim women.

On the other hand, what I see as the real issue here, is my inability to understand why a Muslim couple, that has made a conscious choice to live in the West and benefit from it economically, would choose to honor a man who holds in contempt that society.
posted by pjgulliver at 12:42 PM on September 5, 2002

Oh well, at least it is not like in Brazil, where apparently names like 'Michael Jackson da Silva' and 'Um Dois Tres de Oliveira Quatro' ('One Two Three de Oliveira Four') are allowed (this two are classics). More examples on this page. So although I don't agree with radical purism, I think that a minimum control on children names is necessary.
posted by edsousa at 12:43 PM on September 5, 2002

And in Japan you can't name your kid 'Akuma', go figure.
posted by bobo123 at 12:49 PM on September 5, 2002

Steve_at_Linwood: While I'm all for a hands-off gov't, someone's got to protect children from misinformed(read: idiotic) parents such as these. It's not simply a matter of choice because the name that they choose affects their child, not them. If you want to name yourself Osama Bin Laden, by all means go ahead. But in the this case, the child will have to endure ridicule if the parents give him this name. By the time he can legally change it, the damage will be done.
posted by trillion at 12:51 PM on September 5, 2002

pjgulliver: they're called "hajabs".
posted by Dark Messiah at 12:53 PM on September 5, 2002

I'm naming my first son or daughter "Pigfucker." ...After my grandmother.
posted by ColdChef at 12:54 PM on September 5, 2002

Well, they can call the kid anything they want; they just can't register some names with the government. That doesn't really seem all that ridiculous to me, considering what some parents propose to call their children - making jokes or attacks out of them. Though having rules against androgynous names seems weird to me.

on preview: yeah, it would be different if you were proposing to change your own name - that you could argue would be an infringement of rights. This involves someone else & could be seen as abuse.
posted by mdn at 12:54 PM on September 5, 2002

Wait, why do they force you to name your child a gender specific name? Is this really followed in Germany? (English has lots of gender-unspec names, and French has a few, certainly German must have some...)
posted by Charmian at 1:06 PM on September 5, 2002

Trillion: Don't get me wrong, I agree that it is wrong to use a child a political statement or just to give them a weird name. My point was I would think (and that gets me in trouble sometimes) that a country like Germany would be fairly leery of giving the state powers like that, and what other laws along this line, given their history. I guess that is what shocked me the most. For how "liberal" Europe want to think it self, it can be very constrictive, IMHO.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 1:08 PM on September 5, 2002

European and American liberalism are fundamentally different. Europe views the promotion of the collective good as the ultimate end of the state. The US views the promotion of individual good the ultimate end of the state. Thus Europe may appear very liberal in some ways, such as through social welfare programs, and overly constrictive in others, such as all of the examples listed above. If you look at American and European liberties through the lens of collective vs individual good, it begins to make sense.
posted by pjgulliver at 1:11 PM on September 5, 2002

Also names like Hitler are banned.

Howzabout Hilter? Adaulgh Hilter?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 1:11 PM on September 5, 2002

Does anyone else find this odd, the Gov't telling you what you can and can't name your child?

i may be rather mistaken, but there may be a "law" (or rule, or whatever) in place that requires parents to select a name for their children from a list of german names. i have a friend married to a german citizen, and for his children to have german citizenship, they had to have german names -- this, of course, may be only for dual citizenship folks, or whatever.

maybe there's some germans who could back me up (or correct me) on this?
posted by fishfucker at 1:11 PM on September 5, 2002

Nomenclature fascists. Any freedom lost is Freedom eroded.

I'm guessing Germans must not be big Johnny Cash fans....
posted by rushmc at 1:17 PM on September 5, 2002

Perhaps they can mix it up a bit, like:
Dieter bin Laden
or
Osama bin Schweisendfuss
posted by bmxGirl at 1:18 PM on September 5, 2002

They should just move to the Philippines, where names like Hitler Manila and Michael Jacks Ong abound, according to this WSJ story.
posted by me3dia at 1:30 PM on September 5, 2002

*rushes to secure Osama_bin_Schweisendfuss as a user name at all the cool websites*
posted by grum@work at 1:42 PM on September 5, 2002

Now that is an interesting debate. IANAL but I can shed some light on this, being born and raised in this country.

First, yes there are gender-unspecific names. And also yes, "a boy named Sue" won't be possible. The famous exception is Maria which is primarily known as being female, but has been used historically also as a second name for a female as in 'Rainer Maria Rilke' or more recently in 'Rainer Maria Fassbender' or 'Klaus Maria Brandauer'.

It may be interesting to know that it is next to impossible to change your name once it has been given to you so you need to be careful when choosing one. There have been many examples of names being declined like calling your boy "Professor" or "Doctor". It makes sense to me, but your mileage may vary.
posted by vowe at 2:06 PM on September 5, 2002

I think there could be a whole mid-eighties 'mix-up' comedy in this... like the two bump into each other in the subway and accidentally swap briefcases... no, hang on, that doesn't need same-names... okay, just wait a second...
I got it! The couple name him... so they can turn him into the American authorities and claim the huge-ass reward! When the FBI says 'no, he's too young, this can't be him', they sue, and win - hilariously.

I'm going to name my kid Boner McTroutsnatch, even if it's a girl. Especially if it's a girl.
posted by RokkitNite at 3:06 PM on September 5, 2002

the Philippines, where names like Hitler Manila and Michael Jacks Ong abound

I think "Hitler Manila" has a fantastic sound, phonetically (though visually, it reads too similarly to "Hitler Mania").
posted by rushmc at 3:28 PM on September 5, 2002

I'm going to name my kid Boner McTroutsnatch, even if it's a girl. Especially if it's a girl.

Damn it RokkitNite, you made me choke on what i was drinking.
posted by quin at 5:06 PM on September 5, 2002

Does anyone else find this odd, the Gov't telling you what you can and can't name your child?

That could never happen in a freedom-loving place like America.
posted by Wet Spot at 5:21 PM on September 5, 2002

Appalling, Wet Spot. Nice find.
posted by rushmc at 6:15 PM on September 5, 2002

I could be wrong, but, I once knew someone who was born in Germany, and he told me that no foreign name can appear on a German birth certificate.

He went by the name Sven, the name he had been called by his parents, but his birth certificate said Peter.
posted by free pie at 7:11 PM on September 5, 2002

no foreign name can appear on a German birth certificate

that's crap. i was born in germany - although not german -, and my name is "johan" written and pronounced like the swedish first name as opposed to the german "johann". this may not be the best example, but french and english names are common - there seemed to be some wave of french names in the late 80s, now the trend goes towards scandinavian ones like "malte" or "sven" - and since the germans are politically overcorrect any non-german name is suitable, as long as it is within the bounds of common sense. judas and satan are not. osama as a first name probably is.

as far as i have understood it - i.e. i have never tried it but from what i have heard - the first burden is to convince the clerk handling your case at the civil registry office that the name will not harm your child's social status. the origin of the name you choose is not an issue. issues are the pronouncability of the name - "xyz" would not be accepted, but if you choose a foreign name that is hard to write in latin characters, as the chinese "ng" although i think that is a family name, should be acceptable - and any cultural or historical associations - as with "satan" or "judas", "ass" would be rejected. furthermore you have to explain why you choose a certain name if the name, or the word is unknown to the clerk. if your explanations are not plausible to the clerk the name will probably be rejected, but you can still appeal.

from the article: if the parents decide on a foreign name the name must be acceptable in the family's home country.

another issue would probably be the family name. i doubt that the couple in question are from the bin ladin family, so why should their kid have a different family name? and obviously you can't use a family name as a first name.
posted by popkick at 8:24 PM on September 5, 2002

bmxGirl: I took a sip of ginger ale before reading your post and almost spit it out laughing.

God I love Metafilter.
posted by Zulujines at 12:35 AM on September 6, 2002

>Klaus Maria Brandauer

Whatever happened to him? He was way cool.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:53 AM on September 6, 2002

Freedom is a relative term. I cannot tell you how flabbergasted Europeans are when standing in front of the plethora of flashy "Do not..." signs in a lot of American public places like beaches, lakeshores, parks, etc. You can only wonder what is not regulated or prohibited. I had to think about this when a New Yorker friend of mine made an earnest and disaproving comment about a small discreet and lonely sign (pocket book sized, white on green background, "Do not walk on the lawn", at ground level and easy to overlook): "In Germany everything is verboten!". Really. And what were those people playing volleyball doing?
posted by ugly_n_sticky at 5:00 AM on September 6, 2002

In his comparative study of European legal systems, former FCC Commissioner Newton Minow (now Annenberg Professor of Communications Law and Policy at Northwestern University) concluded:

In Germany, under the law everything is prohibited except that which is permitted.
In France, under the law everything is permitted except that which is prohibited.
In the Soviet Union everything is prohibited, including that which is permitted.
In Italy, under the law everything is permitted, especially that which is prohibited
posted by Wet Spot at 6:48 AM on September 6, 2002

Here in Portugal there's the belief that laws are made so that they can be broken.
posted by edsousa at 10:26 AM on September 6, 2002