One of gaming's great tragic heroes.
March 16, 2023 12:50 PM Subscribe
How Mega Man X rewrote the player / character relationship [Eurogamer] “In video games, there is an implicit understanding that you, as the player, and the on-screen protagonist, your digital counterpart, are on the same side. You are unified by a common goal, battling against Bowser as Mario to save the Princess, or working as Master Chief to stop the Covenant in Halo. But occasionally, and perhaps more interestingly, the player and their digital avatar are lumbered with incompatible goals and the relationship is defined by one-sided control, rather than trust and cooperation. An early example - and it may be the greatest example of all - is Mega Man X. [...] Unlike the previous Mega Man series, every enemy X defeats is a life taken. As the player of the game, meanwhile, speeding through levels and eliminating enemies is second nature. Every boss defeated adds to your arsenal of weapons, giving you new tools to explore, uncover secret power-ups, and exploit enemy weaknesses. There's no hesitation to the atrocities committed, in other words. The fast, smooth action is extremely rewarding, and the fun of combat is an exceptional motivator to continue playing. And it's completely antithetical to the being X wants to be.”
Rare is the game where you aren't just randomly killing scores of "enemies" like an action hero covered in plot armor.
Frogger is just trying to get to the other side of the road!
There was an Amiga game, Nuclear War, where you played a parody version of a real life leader, I think Ronnie Raygun was one of the characters, and at the end of the game the "winner" gets to celebrate in a post-nuclear-apocalypse wasteland.
But yeah in the shooter and adventure games you're really just killing scores of people.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:18 PM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
Frogger is just trying to get to the other side of the road!
There was an Amiga game, Nuclear War, where you played a parody version of a real life leader, I think Ronnie Raygun was one of the characters, and at the end of the game the "winner" gets to celebrate in a post-nuclear-apocalypse wasteland.
But yeah in the shooter and adventure games you're really just killing scores of people.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:18 PM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
protagonist is just an agent of death and/or gluttony
I was really late to the Breath of the Wild party but this hit me a lot over the course of this game, where the monsters have little campsites and are cooking meat and you can even get a mask and watch them socialize or dance around and that kind of thing.
The worst moment was where I went rushing into this little abandoned village that some moblins and bokoblins were apparently living in. This was late in the game so Link was pretty powerful. After mowing them down I noticed that all of the weapons they had were things like brooms and rakes. They didn't have any treasure; when I smashed the boxes and barrels that were lying around they had stored food.
And it occurred to me.
"Am I the baddie?"
posted by synecdoche at 1:25 PM on March 16, 2023 [59 favorites]
I was really late to the Breath of the Wild party but this hit me a lot over the course of this game, where the monsters have little campsites and are cooking meat and you can even get a mask and watch them socialize or dance around and that kind of thing.
The worst moment was where I went rushing into this little abandoned village that some moblins and bokoblins were apparently living in. This was late in the game so Link was pretty powerful. After mowing them down I noticed that all of the weapons they had were things like brooms and rakes. They didn't have any treasure; when I smashed the boxes and barrels that were lying around they had stored food.
And it occurred to me.
"Am I the baddie?"
posted by synecdoche at 1:25 PM on March 16, 2023 [59 favorites]
I think about this often, especially with regards to Horizon. Aloy is a mass murderer, victims in the thousands. Hunkering down behind rocks to headshot people completely unawares, silently moving to another rock to do it again, and again. But she's so nice and thoughtful!
The first game introduced Nil, complete nihilist, to take the place of the player's complete absence of conscience, essentially having Aloy argue with the player right there on the screen about how joyful and delightful he finds it to murder endless enemies in a perfect bloodlust -- mirroring the game player's actions completely. It made you fucking think a bit, but really the only option to continue enjoying the game was to also continue racking up the deaths.
Nil reappears in FW but he's ... lessened, finding joy in winning races than duels to the death. Aloy is glad for his change of heart but herself, must continue murdering and murdering and murdering in order to complete the game. (I have come to terms with this, with some difficulty.)
In one sense it's why Dishonoured is such a great series. You don't have to kill anyone if you don't want to.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:52 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
The first game introduced Nil, complete nihilist, to take the place of the player's complete absence of conscience, essentially having Aloy argue with the player right there on the screen about how joyful and delightful he finds it to murder endless enemies in a perfect bloodlust -- mirroring the game player's actions completely. It made you fucking think a bit, but really the only option to continue enjoying the game was to also continue racking up the deaths.
Nil reappears in FW but he's ... lessened, finding joy in winning races than duels to the death. Aloy is glad for his change of heart but herself, must continue murdering and murdering and murdering in order to complete the game. (I have come to terms with this, with some difficulty.)
In one sense it's why Dishonoured is such a great series. You don't have to kill anyone if you don't want to.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:52 PM on March 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
There was an Amiga game, Nuclear War, where you played a parody version of a real life leader
Based on an almost 60-year-old card/board game!
posted by hanov3r at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Based on an almost 60-year-old card/board game!
posted by hanov3r at 2:04 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Having grown up on point and clicks, I have not had to grapple with wanton violence in old games, but rather the fact that the protagonist will steal anything that's plot relevant (and nothing that isn't). And a crowbar is always plot relevant.
Don't leave a crowbar alone around me.
posted by brook horse at 2:36 PM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
Don't leave a crowbar alone around me.
posted by brook horse at 2:36 PM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
I have not had to grapple with wanton violence in old games, but rather the fact that the protagonist will steal anything that's plot relevant (and nothing that isn't)
I've always though game design was really lazy in that regard. Plus the punishment of leveling up - the bane of RPGs.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:41 PM on March 16, 2023
I've always though game design was really lazy in that regard. Plus the punishment of leveling up - the bane of RPGs.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:41 PM on March 16, 2023
Tim Rogers's very long review of Bioshock: Infinite is a great interrogation of some of this stuff. The game presents these fascinating concepts and worlds and lore and the whole intro is very high-minded and philosophical until things go wrong and "the next thing that happens is, you kill cops for ten hours."
Your only way of interacting with the world is shooting at it, violence is your only language and this is not addressed really in any way, unlike Bioshock where there's the late-game rug-pull of you realizing you've been someone else's murderbot the whole time. It is a total mismatch of game design and narrative design, which is why Rogers called it "the best game of all time and the worst game of all time, inserted into opposite ends of a transdimensional nuclear supercollider."
I always look forward to other ways forward that don't directly require violence, like real stealth (Thief II!) or diplomacy/cunning (Disco Elysium!) and story/lore options (Elden Ring). Sometimes it's illusory but I like at least feeling that I did what I could.
But, regarding TFA... surely there were hundreds of enemies in MMX that are just little defense mehcs or turrets!? They're not all.... people?
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 3:04 PM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
Your only way of interacting with the world is shooting at it, violence is your only language and this is not addressed really in any way, unlike Bioshock where there's the late-game rug-pull of you realizing you've been someone else's murderbot the whole time. It is a total mismatch of game design and narrative design, which is why Rogers called it "the best game of all time and the worst game of all time, inserted into opposite ends of a transdimensional nuclear supercollider."
I always look forward to other ways forward that don't directly require violence, like real stealth (Thief II!) or diplomacy/cunning (Disco Elysium!) and story/lore options (Elden Ring). Sometimes it's illusory but I like at least feeling that I did what I could.
But, regarding TFA... surely there were hundreds of enemies in MMX that are just little defense mehcs or turrets!? They're not all.... people?
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 3:04 PM on March 16, 2023 [9 favorites]
Rare is the game where you aren't just randomly killing scores of "enemies" like an action hero covered in plot armor.
Frogger is just trying to get to the other side of the road!
And Sonic is freeing animals from being unwittingly put in the driver's seat of various robots, and bringing justice to the ones responsible :)
posted by JoeXIII007 at 3:22 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Frogger is just trying to get to the other side of the road!
And Sonic is freeing animals from being unwittingly put in the driver's seat of various robots, and bringing justice to the ones responsible :)
posted by JoeXIII007 at 3:22 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
They're not all.... people?
I'm not 100% sure about this but I think the implication is that machines have gained sentience in the years since OG Mega Man and the sentient robots are justified in their rebellion. But I didn't look anything up and can't beat the 1st stage, I just listen to video game podcasts.
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:30 PM on March 16, 2023
I'm not 100% sure about this but I think the implication is that machines have gained sentience in the years since OG Mega Man and the sentient robots are justified in their rebellion. But I didn't look anything up and can't beat the 1st stage, I just listen to video game podcasts.
posted by kittensofthenight at 3:30 PM on March 16, 2023
Tim Rogers's very long review of Bioshock: Infinite
This is very validating to see. I remember saying right after playing Infinite that I liked it a lot but it felt like it really wanted to be an adventure game where where you talk to people and solve puzzles, all in the context of this really creative and well-realized wold. But it was branded a certain way so I guess the only thing they could do was make it a shooting gallery with, like, roller coasters? It was even a pretty good shooting gallery but it felt like kind of a rug-pull whenever you went from story time into action mode. Burial At Sea was much closer to what I wanted from it.
The term ludonarrative dissonance the idea I found that sorta pinned it down for me.
I hadn't remembered the tragic element of Mega Man X, but I do remember finding the game unusually affecting. Worth another play through I bet.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
This is very validating to see. I remember saying right after playing Infinite that I liked it a lot but it felt like it really wanted to be an adventure game where where you talk to people and solve puzzles, all in the context of this really creative and well-realized wold. But it was branded a certain way so I guess the only thing they could do was make it a shooting gallery with, like, roller coasters? It was even a pretty good shooting gallery but it felt like kind of a rug-pull whenever you went from story time into action mode. Burial At Sea was much closer to what I wanted from it.
The term ludonarrative dissonance the idea I found that sorta pinned it down for me.
I hadn't remembered the tragic element of Mega Man X, but I do remember finding the game unusually affecting. Worth another play through I bet.
posted by Phobos the Space Potato at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
I was really late to the Breath of the Wild party but this hit me a lot over the course of this game, where the monsters have little campsites and are cooking meat and you can even get a mask and watch them socialize or dance around and that kind of thing.
I feel like it's safe to assume that the monsters in Breath of the Wild are anti-social; they attack any Hylian NPCs they see, and Ganon constantly respawns them as part of their pact with him. If we're willing to say that the average Republican is evil because they try to get other people killed and have openly evil bosses, I think we can definitely say that your average bokoblin is also probably not worthy of your empathy.
(That said: Lynels are extremely territorial and violent, but if you don't have your weapon out they won't attack until you get close, so they do at least acknowledge the possibility of peace.)
posted by Merus at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2023
I feel like it's safe to assume that the monsters in Breath of the Wild are anti-social; they attack any Hylian NPCs they see, and Ganon constantly respawns them as part of their pact with him. If we're willing to say that the average Republican is evil because they try to get other people killed and have openly evil bosses, I think we can definitely say that your average bokoblin is also probably not worthy of your empathy.
(That said: Lynels are extremely territorial and violent, but if you don't have your weapon out they won't attack until you get close, so they do at least acknowledge the possibility of peace.)
posted by Merus at 4:57 PM on March 16, 2023
The more I go back and play old games, like Space Harrier or any of those top-scrolling flight shooters or, heck, even Pac-Man, I'm forced to reckon with the fact that protagonist is just an agent of death and/or gluttony.
grumpybear69
It might help to remember that it's not real.
Bioshock where there's the late-game rug-pull of you realizing you've been someone else's murderbot the whole time
BlackLeotardFront
This is the most eye-rolling masturbatory nonsense that modern game makers pull:
"Press X to kill this guy."
"Okay."
"Oh ho, you chose to kill that person because the game told you to, really makes you thiiiiiiiiiiink."
This reminds me of the recent FPP on historical board games and all the ridiculous pearl clutching "what does it mean to play out these horrors of history" when, as a Jew who lost whole branches of their family to the Holocaust, playing Axis & Allies means literally nothing. It's just a game, its not real.
This seeming deteriorating ability of people to distinguish reality from fantasy is genuinely worrying sometimes.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:26 PM on March 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
grumpybear69
It might help to remember that it's not real.
Bioshock where there's the late-game rug-pull of you realizing you've been someone else's murderbot the whole time
BlackLeotardFront
This is the most eye-rolling masturbatory nonsense that modern game makers pull:
"Press X to kill this guy."
"Okay."
"Oh ho, you chose to kill that person because the game told you to, really makes you thiiiiiiiiiiink."
This reminds me of the recent FPP on historical board games and all the ridiculous pearl clutching "what does it mean to play out these horrors of history" when, as a Jew who lost whole branches of their family to the Holocaust, playing Axis & Allies means literally nothing. It's just a game, its not real.
This seeming deteriorating ability of people to distinguish reality from fantasy is genuinely worrying sometimes.
posted by star gentle uterus at 5:26 PM on March 16, 2023 [8 favorites]
The thing that gets me about Mega Man X's story is: okay, X is supposed to be this new kind of robot. He's able to think and feel and stuff. Wait. So, Rock/Mega Man from the first series couldn't do those things? Rock's pretty obviously intended to be an Astroboy expy, and Astroboy was supposed to be as special as X is, in terms of autonomy.
Ganon constantly respawns them as part of their pact with him
I don't think it has ever been explained why the monsters follow Ganon, other than that one surprisingly vocal one in Twilight Princess, who is my favorite Zelda monster for that. Still though, whatever happens to the monsters at the end of Breath of the Wild, I hope it recognizes that they're basically cool
posted by JHarris at 5:43 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Ganon constantly respawns them as part of their pact with him
I don't think it has ever been explained why the monsters follow Ganon, other than that one surprisingly vocal one in Twilight Princess, who is my favorite Zelda monster for that. Still though, whatever happens to the monsters at the end of Breath of the Wild, I hope it recognizes that they're basically cool
posted by JHarris at 5:43 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was really late to the Breath of the Wild party but this hit me a lot over the course of this game, where the monsters have little campsites and are cooking meat and you can even get a mask and watch them socialize or dance around and that kind of thing.
Genshin Impact does the same thing, and it's intensified through the plot and story making strong efforts to humanise the villains - such as directly interacting with individual Fatui members who were often orphans raised to be conscripted into war, or the hilichurls being citizens of a lost nation that got hit with an unfair curse of wretched immortality. In one instance one of the characters says that you'd be putting the hilichurls out of their misery by killing them, but it still makes me wish that I could trade with them for their loot or help them out in exchange for materials instead of fighting them!!!
posted by creatrixtiara at 6:15 PM on March 16, 2023
Genshin Impact does the same thing, and it's intensified through the plot and story making strong efforts to humanise the villains - such as directly interacting with individual Fatui members who were often orphans raised to be conscripted into war, or the hilichurls being citizens of a lost nation that got hit with an unfair curse of wretched immortality. In one instance one of the characters says that you'd be putting the hilichurls out of their misery by killing them, but it still makes me wish that I could trade with them for their loot or help them out in exchange for materials instead of fighting them!!!
posted by creatrixtiara at 6:15 PM on March 16, 2023
whatever happens to the monsters at the end of Breath of the Wild, I hope it recognizes that they're basically cool
Counterpoint: Moblins hate you so bad if they see you they will literally pick up smaller, equally hate filled versions of themselves and throw them at you, and are both programmed to terrorize travellers. The game is not particularly nuanced in its depiction of morality, and I doubt it ever will be.
posted by pwnguin at 6:17 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
Counterpoint: Moblins hate you so bad if they see you they will literally pick up smaller, equally hate filled versions of themselves and throw them at you, and are both programmed to terrorize travellers. The game is not particularly nuanced in its depiction of morality, and I doubt it ever will be.
posted by pwnguin at 6:17 PM on March 16, 2023 [1 favorite]
In a world where some people seem to have trouble working up any empathy towards very real human beings, I'm more inclined to surround myself with those who still have the ability to be affected by violent narratives.
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:28 PM on March 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by tigrrrlily at 6:28 PM on March 16, 2023 [12 favorites]
this is an interesting take on MMX's story that I think lends it far more credence and coherence than the creators did, since it seems to have started with "what if mega man was cool and edgy, for the teens" and ended there too
truly it hit me at exactly the right time for that to work like gangbusters. brilliant level design and shockingly good movement for a mega man game didn't hurt either
(anyway the best analytical criticism is founded on reading intentionality and seriousness of purpose into all kinds of trash, I do it myself, it's a lovely and worthwhile way to explore what the silly things we make and play might say about us or the spaces we inhabit. this is why critical distance is the only good website)
posted by Kybard at 6:48 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
truly it hit me at exactly the right time for that to work like gangbusters. brilliant level design and shockingly good movement for a mega man game didn't hurt either
(anyway the best analytical criticism is founded on reading intentionality and seriousness of purpose into all kinds of trash, I do it myself, it's a lovely and worthwhile way to explore what the silly things we make and play might say about us or the spaces we inhabit. this is why critical distance is the only good website)
posted by Kybard at 6:48 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
The game is not particularly nuanced in its depiction of morality, and I doubt it ever will be.
Part of the escapism that games offer is the escape from moral complexity, but that doesn’t liberate them from some obligation to tell a coherent story.
posted by mhoye at 7:24 PM on March 16, 2023
Part of the escapism that games offer is the escape from moral complexity, but that doesn’t liberate them from some obligation to tell a coherent story.
posted by mhoye at 7:24 PM on March 16, 2023
In a world where some people seem to have trouble working up any empathy towards very real human beings, I'm more inclined to surround myself with those who still have the ability to be affected by violent narratives.
Only You Can Save Mankind by Terry Pratchett has this as it's theme.
posted by rouftop at 8:44 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
Only You Can Save Mankind by Terry Pratchett has this as it's theme.
posted by rouftop at 8:44 PM on March 16, 2023 [4 favorites]
This seeming deteriorating ability of people to distinguish reality from fantasy is genuinely worrying sometimes.
I don't think many people are arguing that violence in games is inherently bad (nor is there science to back that up), just that unexamined violence in video games is just a bit boring in 2023 as games like Megaman X have been exploring the idea in interesting ways for years.
Not every game needs to be a treatise against violence but dismissing conversation about media with "it's not real" is as good a hot take as saying representation equals endorsement.
I say all of the above as an avid fan of horror movies and death metal both of which have constant infighting between "there is and should be no message in violent media" and "even when there is no message, there is a message".
posted by slimepuppy at 4:43 AM on March 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
I don't think many people are arguing that violence in games is inherently bad (nor is there science to back that up), just that unexamined violence in video games is just a bit boring in 2023 as games like Megaman X have been exploring the idea in interesting ways for years.
Not every game needs to be a treatise against violence but dismissing conversation about media with "it's not real" is as good a hot take as saying representation equals endorsement.
I say all of the above as an avid fan of horror movies and death metal both of which have constant infighting between "there is and should be no message in violent media" and "even when there is no message, there is a message".
posted by slimepuppy at 4:43 AM on March 17, 2023 [12 favorites]
I play Star Trek Online and Warframe, and people in both communities recognize the problematic nature of the games. In STO, it's references to commiting warcrimes (your character doesn't torture or do things like that, but they've blown up thousands of ships, killing millions of people). In Warframe, it's "are we the baddies?" At best, we might be helping people who are the good guys, but really, the game's a slaughter simulator, with a handful of Tenno against hundreds of enemies.
posted by Spike Glee at 6:35 AM on March 17, 2023
posted by Spike Glee at 6:35 AM on March 17, 2023
I don't think this conversation is complete without mentioning the work of the band The Megas and their albums Get Equipped, History Repeating: Blue and History Repeating: Red.
I don't know if I can do them justice in a comment here. First, these are incredible rock and roll albums based on the original soundtracks of Megaman 2 and 3. Then, the band wrote amazing lyrics for these songs, sung from the perspective of various characters. Some of the songs explore the heavy themes and implications of the story. For example, in Message From Dr. Light Dr. Light reflects on his responsibility to his creation/son Megaman, built to wage war against his fellow robots on behalf of humanity. In I want to be the one Megaman laments the personal cost of his relentless drive to fight for justice, and the immense burden of saving humanity.
There are songs for most of the robot masters, each given a personality and a motive, from the pure pyrophiliac malice of Heatman in Man on Fire/Heatman to Bubbleman's pathetic desire to be earn any recognition from his brothers in Promise of Redemption/Bubbleman.
Some songs are beautiful even completely removed from the context of the games, I particularly like Continue. Fly On A Dog is a clever commentary on some of the more absurd elements of the game design, and another heavy reflection on Megaman's humanity, agency, and the impossible odds he faces in his mission to stop Wiley.
Seriously, these albums elevate the games. They take the premise of the games completely seriously, and develop premise far beyond what the games attempt.
posted by rustcrumb at 7:10 AM on March 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
I don't know if I can do them justice in a comment here. First, these are incredible rock and roll albums based on the original soundtracks of Megaman 2 and 3. Then, the band wrote amazing lyrics for these songs, sung from the perspective of various characters. Some of the songs explore the heavy themes and implications of the story. For example, in Message From Dr. Light Dr. Light reflects on his responsibility to his creation/son Megaman, built to wage war against his fellow robots on behalf of humanity. In I want to be the one Megaman laments the personal cost of his relentless drive to fight for justice, and the immense burden of saving humanity.
There are songs for most of the robot masters, each given a personality and a motive, from the pure pyrophiliac malice of Heatman in Man on Fire/Heatman to Bubbleman's pathetic desire to be earn any recognition from his brothers in Promise of Redemption/Bubbleman.
Some songs are beautiful even completely removed from the context of the games, I particularly like Continue. Fly On A Dog is a clever commentary on some of the more absurd elements of the game design, and another heavy reflection on Megaman's humanity, agency, and the impossible odds he faces in his mission to stop Wiley.
Seriously, these albums elevate the games. They take the premise of the games completely seriously, and develop premise far beyond what the games attempt.
posted by rustcrumb at 7:10 AM on March 17, 2023 [9 favorites]
Doesn't the franchise include some creepy stuff even prior to X? Like, isn't Megaman Lan's dead twin brother Hub revived in some weird zombie fashion? I watched an LP of Megaman Blue that made a lot of that.
posted by praemunire at 7:50 AM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by praemunire at 7:50 AM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
Spec Ops: The Line is a good game for this in that you start out as a super soldier killing machine, and as the game goes on the idea that maybe you are not the good guy is introduced and it slowly turns into a bit of a psychological horror.
posted by trif at 8:33 AM on March 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by trif at 8:33 AM on March 17, 2023 [4 favorites]
The thing that gets me about Mega Man X's story is: okay, X is supposed to be this new kind of robot. He's able to think and feel and stuff. Wait. So, Rock/Mega Man from the first series couldn't do those things? Rock's pretty obviously intended to be an Astroboy expy, and Astroboy was supposed to be as special as X is, in terms of autonomy.
The big thing is that X can break the First Law (there's a whole warning about this at the start of the first game with flashing lights and warning klaxons), though whether or not that's because he possesses the Zeroth Law is up for debate. And no, the original Mega Man was not supposed to be able to - in one of the game endings (I believe MM7, IIRC), when Mega pulls his Buster Cannon on Dr. Wily, that's considered a major breach of his design (even if why he does it is understandable.)
Doesn't the franchise include some creepy stuff even prior to X? Like, isn't Megaman Lan's dead twin brother Hub revived in some weird zombie fashion? I watched an LP of Megaman Blue that made a lot of that.
That's in the GBA Battle Network games, where Lan's Mega Man Navi is based on his dead twin brother.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:33 AM on March 17, 2023
The big thing is that X can break the First Law (there's a whole warning about this at the start of the first game with flashing lights and warning klaxons), though whether or not that's because he possesses the Zeroth Law is up for debate. And no, the original Mega Man was not supposed to be able to - in one of the game endings (I believe MM7, IIRC), when Mega pulls his Buster Cannon on Dr. Wily, that's considered a major breach of his design (even if why he does it is understandable.)
Doesn't the franchise include some creepy stuff even prior to X? Like, isn't Megaman Lan's dead twin brother Hub revived in some weird zombie fashion? I watched an LP of Megaman Blue that made a lot of that.
That's in the GBA Battle Network games, where Lan's Mega Man Navi is based on his dead twin brother.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:33 AM on March 17, 2023
That's in the GBA Battle Network games, where Lan's Mega Man Navi is based on his dead twin brother.
Ah, right. Still creepy, though!
Spec Ops: The Line is a good game for this in that you start out as a super soldier killing machine
One of my favorite versions of this is in Danganronpa 2, where you come to realize that you are actually all a despair cult that nearly ended the world and ultimately are fighting to break out of the virtual-world therapy jail you were placed in because some people objected to killing you outright.
posted by praemunire at 8:55 AM on March 17, 2023
Ah, right. Still creepy, though!
Spec Ops: The Line is a good game for this in that you start out as a super soldier killing machine
One of my favorite versions of this is in Danganronpa 2, where you come to realize that you are actually all a despair cult that nearly ended the world and ultimately are fighting to break out of the virtual-world therapy jail you were placed in because some people objected to killing you outright.
posted by praemunire at 8:55 AM on March 17, 2023
This seeming deteriorating ability of people to distinguish reality from fantasy is genuinely worrying sometimes.
I had a snarky reply to this queued up, but on reflection your point deserves some engagement.
It isn't that I think Space Harrier or Pac-Man are real. It has more to do with age imparting upon me a desire to interrogate the moral universe of the media I consume, since I consume so damn much of it. And as games have become sophisticated enough to be deliberate about the moral universes they inhabit, it has caused me to re-evaluate the more simplistic games of my youth from that perspective. I think that's a healthy and worthwhile exercise, especially now that games are omnipresent and even normal life stuff is "gamified."
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:14 AM on March 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
I had a snarky reply to this queued up, but on reflection your point deserves some engagement.
It isn't that I think Space Harrier or Pac-Man are real. It has more to do with age imparting upon me a desire to interrogate the moral universe of the media I consume, since I consume so damn much of it. And as games have become sophisticated enough to be deliberate about the moral universes they inhabit, it has caused me to re-evaluate the more simplistic games of my youth from that perspective. I think that's a healthy and worthwhile exercise, especially now that games are omnipresent and even normal life stuff is "gamified."
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:14 AM on March 17, 2023 [5 favorites]
Bubbleman's pathetic desire to be earn any recognition from his brothers
He has one of the most useful weapons and the most interesting level design in the game. Bubbleman bows to no one.
rustcrumb, I'm listening to The Megas now and will be doing so for quite some time. Thanks for the gift of good music.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:21 AM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
He has one of the most useful weapons and the most interesting level design in the game. Bubbleman bows to no one.
rustcrumb, I'm listening to The Megas now and will be doing so for quite some time. Thanks for the gift of good music.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:21 AM on March 17, 2023 [2 favorites]
I thought Pac-Man was a Sisyphean torment of Hades where the walls never change and the tormenting ghosts of past sins endlessly pursue you. The power pellets are only there to reinforce your helplessness... Maybe if you eat all four ghost Furies, they will be unable to respawn? NO, they are eternal.
And the best you can possibly achieve... Evading your torment for hundreds of levels, thousands of pellets... Is for the reality around you, your prison and personal hell, to degrade into unusability. not freedom, not redemption, no form of escape. Just that the machine is failing, forcing you to start at the beginning. The virtual fruit never quenches your burning, all consuming thirst. Nor do the pellets do more than provide just enough fuel to get to the next ones.
Tune in next week when I analyze Mrs Pacman, the Erisian forces of chaos disrupting the god controlling the machine, the shocking reversal of Eurydice rescuing Orpheus, and weave in themes from Answer to Job
posted by Jacen at 10:33 AM on March 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
And the best you can possibly achieve... Evading your torment for hundreds of levels, thousands of pellets... Is for the reality around you, your prison and personal hell, to degrade into unusability. not freedom, not redemption, no form of escape. Just that the machine is failing, forcing you to start at the beginning. The virtual fruit never quenches your burning, all consuming thirst. Nor do the pellets do more than provide just enough fuel to get to the next ones.
Tune in next week when I analyze Mrs Pacman, the Erisian forces of chaos disrupting the god controlling the machine, the shocking reversal of Eurydice rescuing Orpheus, and weave in themes from Answer to Job
posted by Jacen at 10:33 AM on March 17, 2023 [3 favorites]
I will add that Bit Brigade used to play a rather good liveshow playthrough if you want the unreflective version of the Megaman 2 soundtrack.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:34 AM on March 17, 2023
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 10:34 AM on March 17, 2023
This is one of my favorite ludonarative dissonamce bits. Also I love Rogers' idea of game reviews by someone's grandma just asking the most basic/dumb questions. That might just be in the video version of the Bioshock review if anyone's wondering what the hell I'm talking about.
posted by East14thTaco at 10:52 AM on March 17, 2023
posted by East14thTaco at 10:52 AM on March 17, 2023
This article does an excellent job rewriting the game/storyfluff relationship in a series where the characters sound like this.
posted by StarkRoads at 2:10 PM on March 17, 2023
posted by StarkRoads at 2:10 PM on March 17, 2023
This is the most eye-rolling masturbatory nonsense that modern game makers pull:
"Press X to kill this guy."
"Okay."
"Oh ho, you chose to kill that person because the game told you to, really makes you thiiiiiiiiiiink."
There is a moment where The Last of Us completely lost me as a player. After clearing out an entire area, I found myself standing near a bus that was blocking the route to the next area. Yet nothing I did or pressed allowed me climb on it. Only by wandering around for twenty minutes looking for another route did I discover that there was a lone guy standing alone in a corner of the map that had no way of triggering any recognition that all the other AI characters were dead. Only after killing this character was I able to return to the bus and activate the dialogue to continue. I switched the game to the easiest mode and just enjoyed the story.
Then at the end of the game you have the option to kill two nurses or leave them alive. The developers intend it as a morality play, but you're damn right I shot them on sight. Not because I had become desensitized to the violence or immersed myself into the mindset of the protagonist, but because they set up the dumb rules for encounters and I was sick of having to backtrack.
posted by dances with hamsters at 5:06 PM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
"Press X to kill this guy."
"Okay."
"Oh ho, you chose to kill that person because the game told you to, really makes you thiiiiiiiiiiink."
There is a moment where The Last of Us completely lost me as a player. After clearing out an entire area, I found myself standing near a bus that was blocking the route to the next area. Yet nothing I did or pressed allowed me climb on it. Only by wandering around for twenty minutes looking for another route did I discover that there was a lone guy standing alone in a corner of the map that had no way of triggering any recognition that all the other AI characters were dead. Only after killing this character was I able to return to the bus and activate the dialogue to continue. I switched the game to the easiest mode and just enjoyed the story.
Then at the end of the game you have the option to kill two nurses or leave them alive. The developers intend it as a morality play, but you're damn right I shot them on sight. Not because I had become desensitized to the violence or immersed myself into the mindset of the protagonist, but because they set up the dumb rules for encounters and I was sick of having to backtrack.
posted by dances with hamsters at 5:06 PM on March 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
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Shadow of the Colossus did a very good job of delivering on the Pyrrhic victory of that sort of endeavor.
posted by grumpybear69 at 1:12 PM on March 16, 2023 [7 favorites]